Monday, July 1, 2013
The sixth day of trial began on a high note for the prosecution with Dr. Hirotaka Nakasone from the FBI testifying that the best chance to identify the source of the scream is by a person familiar with the person’s scream under similar circumstances or extremely stressful circumstances.
Matters proceeded downhill from there with Sanford Police Department Investigator Chris Serino admitting during cross examination by Mark O’Mara that he believed the defendant was telling the truth when he claimed to have killed Trayvon Martin in self-defense.
Generally speaking a police officer’s opinion regarding whether a suspect is telling the truth, is not admissible and I thought Judge Nelson had granted the State’s motion in limine to prevent what happened today.
This trial is a long way from over, but the State’s case is in trouble if Bernie de la Rionda does not have an effective counter move to what Chris Serino said.
I believe the answer will come from the forensics, which Serino likely did not know at the time he reached that opinion.
Trial resumes tomorrow at 9 am EDT with the continuing cross examination of Chris Serino by Mark O’Mara.
Watch the livestream and join us for the liveblog.
This is getting very interesting.
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Frederick Leatherman Law Blog 
Prof. They are addressing the very issue you stated in your article about Serino giving his opinion on GZs truthfulness.
For me it’s not a question if his statements are inconsistent from one version to the next…But are they plausible, do they make sense, add up with ALL the evidence that will be presented. At the time Serino/Singleton questioned him, they only had his fabricated versions of events, not all the witness statements had been given, not all evidence had been gathered. Did they know his minor injuries didn’t coincide with the attack he claimed, yes. Did they know his fabricated version didn’t make sense in relation to NEN, yes. Could they prove it, no. How many of us have stuck to a lie knowing that it couldn’t be proven, making it our own truth.
It’s on the prosecution to now bring this home with the evidence they have that will prove his fabricated story is in fact inconsistent with NEN, 911 call capturing screams, DNA, ME, and ballistic. My prayer is that the jurors are able to set aside any prejudices/biases they may have toward either Trayvon or GZ, put on their critical, common sense, thinking caps and sort through the witness testimonies, GZs self serving statements, and see how it matches up the evidence mentioned above.
In the re-enactment did anyone see yellow tape?
If CAC shot someone and thought he was still alive, WHY didn’t he call an ambulance for the kid seriously injured and disabled on the wet grass? WHY didn’t he ask for assistance in keeping the kid from dying?
Did he WANT the kid he shot to die?
Did he walk away from a gravely injured kid because of a depraved unconcern for human life?
From Florida’s legal definition for 2nd Degree Murder:
“The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree….”
Because Singleton said gz was “shocked” when he learned that Trayvon was dead, it DOES beg the question of why gz did not call for an ambulance and why he did not ask for assistance in keeping Trayvon from dying!
I do believe that gz wanted Trayvon to die.
Yes, MedicineBear, gz DID have a depraved unconcern for Trayvon’s life.
First off…if they really pay attention, he’s making a contradictory statement right there. His “supposed” shock according to Singleton, was also prefaced with the whole in his religion it’s wrong to KILL for any reason. Now, if he didn’t think Trayvon was dead…what would make you all of a sudden have a “come to Jesus”, moment saying its wrong to kill!
Well this goes to show you how people have different perceptions of what happened with Serino..I was talking to someone at work this morning about O’Mara’s cross and they did not care about Serino saying he believed Zimmerman she said there were too many issues with Zimmerman and his answers what Serino believed was wrong…let’s hope the jury see’s it the same way and that BLDR has found a way to counter O’Mara.
Screw the cops, trying to play like this guy is innocent. Time to bring out witness #9 and the witnesses in the assault, and the Protection order witness (Kicking thre DOG), and medical testimony on those drugs he was taking as well as what’s he on NOW!
Time to out the pathological liar
If he’s going to get off based on what they’ve presented so far , may as well get all that stuff in.
Serino allowed himself to be used as a pawn to take the attention away from Wolfinger and Lee.
Here’s what we ALL know from his former co-worker(even though gz past cannot be presented in court).
We will NEVER NEVER forget this:
Not sure about that. MOM took pathological liar off the table.
Does not the state have the right to bring it back to the table?
That would include past instances. Why is witness #9 a witness?
why can’t it be entered? didn’t the defense open the door when they asked about his demeanor? The prosecution was allowed to question Laurie about if she new of his restraining orders, so why not allow this in since the defense asked Serino about his demeanor?
You are right, Donna..
The defense DID open the door! hee hee hee 🙂
🙂 Could this be BDLR smugly playing this music? 🙂
Note to gz from BDLR after MOM’s tricks:
Just think of the hours one has spent on the discovery alone. That isn’t counting any actual time on blogs agreeing and/or disagreeing. How long has it been since any here have made this kind of commitment to something like this? I am and always will be committed to the justice this young man and his family deserves. No matter what the outcome is.
How many people involved in this case (cause) are being driven to or toward becoming misanthropist’s? The emotional impact of an event like this and the way that it is being played out could have long term effects upon the mental and physical health of many people who while not directly involved in the case, can and or will be affected by the outcome….
I’m one of those people. If Zimmerman gets away with this, if he is actually acquitted by this jury I will fall into a depression. I’ve shed tears for a boy I never met. But my pain will be nothing compared to Trayvon’s parents and those who knew and loved him.
I’m trying to remain hopeful despite the doubts I see all around me. I want to believe that true justice will prevail.
chi1224, Justice will take place (served?) however will it occur as we demand or will be take place in a way that we don’t immediately understand? Many people seem to think that the only true justice for the death of this child (Trayvon) will be the immediate jailing of the person responsible for the death. I am in full agreement that would be the easiest solution, however I also realize that even if a conviction is not obtained that the Fogdoits life is for all practical purposes over. He will never be free, even while he appears to be, he will always be looking over his shoulder wondering when he will pay for his actions, he will not be able to hold a job, he will find it difficult to be in public, he will know no happiness nor will he find comfort in his memories of his life. Justice will be served and the Fogdoit will pay regardless of the outcome of this trial…..
What you are saying is very true. Zimmerman had mental issues before this happened. Broken in a sad kind of way really, because there was an element of him that wanted to do good, be the hero. Instead what he did showed how flawed he really is, and the lies he told after were even worse. So yes, no matter the outcome he will have to live with himself, knowing he is not one of the good guys. Knowing he tried to steal the screams of the victim he killed. At the end of the day that is what he has to live with, and his inner self loathing will never go away.
All that being said, I want to see his ass in prison because he is guilty. He murdered Trayvon.
chil224~ You are such a wonderful person, believing that gz is even capable of feeling remorse or sorrow. He’s a sociopath and he will NEVER care for anybody else but himself and his needs. But yes! Prison is the best environment for him.
________________________________
Rumor:
Zimmerman “uncle-in law” may have formerly worked for the DA’s office as recently as middle of last year
anyone want to investigate?
When I first heard about the case (March 2012) I thought immediately that the white guy had shot the Black kid because he thought he could get away with it, and that the police there probably went along with it because of racism. But I didn’t know there was such an overwhelming pile of evidence that would make any rational police department realize that they had to at least arrest the guy and go through some “show trial” and perhaps a “blunder” to get rid of the case. I thought they might commit some kind of illegal search of the shooter to get a Consitutional challenge going to he could get off but it would be put down to “error” and they could whine, “The police department is overworked and underpaid blah blah blah blah we need more blah blah blah” and THEN it would blow over.
What changed my mind and made me absolutely SURe that there was corruption as thick as Hasty Pudding was the release of the NEN call. NOT the scream tape, the NEN call!
This jury is going through what I went through in the beginning but of course they didn’t start where I started.
This case can be won if the SPD still stands stiff and rigid refusing to give a millimeter for justice, if it remains as corrupt as the day they symbolically put the gun in Fogen’s hand and said, “Here you go, big guy, go shoot yourself a n****r.”
Because three elements are needed for Murder-2:
Killed
with depraved mind
and ill will.
And one thing has to be ruled out:
self-defense.
And two things need to be pointed out:
Fogen followed
Trayvon was scared
And we are HOME. SPD is a sewer and Serino and Singleton are just turds floating around in it. Since FDLE had to take over, the stench from that sewer is not the most important issue here any more. Not for conviction, it isn’t. (For the federal investigation, yes, because it has obviously infected the feds.)
Corey wants to win this case NOT because of justice but because of political advancement. Her name rides on the thing now. BDLR got the prize before this case came to him because he has killed so often (his death sentence cases make everybody break out in glowing adoration and idolization for him, remember; and most of his victims in the death sentence were minority defendants with public defenders like West).
This is a deal and it’s a dirty deal. But I think we will see Fogen convicted and his conviction will not be overturned.
If you want a better system you have to go OUT of Florida.
added in Malisha, Sanford PD and George believed and still does believe it’s okay to follow a black kid for a considerable distance, and if that kid is scared, So what the dead kid is the attacker.
I cannot believe Serino suggested he could be a pathological liar and the state is not allowed to show evidence to support that.
Last night on HLN a commentator actually said that they have neever seen police officers stand up for a defendant as much as they have seen in this case, he said in fact I can say in all my years of practicing that I have never ever ran across this. He was very matter of fact and he said it for a reason, he knows this case is corrupt. I hope everyone reads between the lines of what he was trying to say. Singleton and Serino better hope that their precious jobs are worth ever bit of what they stand to gain for their lies on the witness stand. I wish no one ill will but Karma doesn’t care who you are and if you are cloaking for the devil it will definitely come back on you.
@diary73. Hello, seat lottery for is at the seminole co elections office between 2:00 –4:00. Daily and it’s in the sanford airport.
Good luck on my way to court will try to keep in touch
Paddywagon
I don’t know what is going on, but I went over Fogen’s cell phone calls. He has calls coming in and outgoing all eve! He is calling Orlando cell numbers, and 805 phone #, this is a Miami #. These are mostly outgoing too. I think Goode told a whopper. There were 4 outgoing cell calls between 7:16 and 7:23. PM on 2/26. What am I missing here? I thought Doris Singleton said they confiscated that phone? Did Fogen switch phones? If I seem lost, that’s because I am. I had to do an all nighter.
first phone bill is Trayvon’s. Fogen’s is the bill that is easier to read.
Thank you for the help.
YW!
Of course the phone should have been confiscated by the police immediately but they never treated Fogen like a suspect; from the start (since Timothy Smith arrived first and told others, including Serino, how to go about it) but treated him like a co-cop who had to be protected because of a “good shoot.” Not only letting him make phone calls was way out of line, but their reports were squinky and their conduct was “real suspicious.” Let’s face it, we don’t know what their thing is (although I can make an educated guess).
The reason the first picture of the bloody head (while Fogen chatted on his cell phone) did not appear until ABC broadcasted it weeks later was simple: they didn’t think they were going to have to use it. They didn’t WANT to have to use it. Only when it became obvious that there would HAVE to be some kind of investigation into what really went down that night did it appear. Someone should have been charged with obstruction and we all know who.
In fact accessory-after-fact and obstruction charges should have been spread pretty widely in early spring 2012; the reason they weren’t was that deals were made to try to CONTAIN this. It is still being contained and that is why “sexy” BDLR is doing what he is doing. Not by stupidity; not by ignorance; and not by laziness, but by design. I believe he will convict, though. It’s just that they are circling the wagons around SPD and do not want it disciplined.
I hope you are wrong but i see your point completely
justice won’t be served if the SPD is not taken to task
serino may have been bluffing when he said it may have been on Trayvons video……but George was bluffing when he said he hoped someone had
exactly. this trial is pissing me off, so much support an understanding george actions.
for trayvon? nothing, .
no mention of the total distance Zimmerman followed Martin by car.
no mention of gun recoil smacking him in the nose, back of head injuries caused only be his head SLIDING around, no smashing.
no mention of no one seeing the head smashing.
could not believe police said his testimony was consistent.
and BDLR never spoke to Police about the I don’t remember and how zimmerman all of a sudden could not remember anything
after police accused him of following.
Exactly.
All the lies will not be lost on this jury. Fogen talked about stitches that he did not need. He talked about his deviated septum. The PA just denied any of those type of injuries. His map had him spotting Trayvon closer to the Clubhouse. Yet Fogen and Frank now claim he was in his front yard. Why lie about that? The jury has to be thinking if he lied about this, this and this what else is he lying about?
Singleton asked Fogen do you not think you scared him? Watching him and when he walks by you put the window up? Singleton said to Fogen he probably thought you were CREEPY! Out of Trayvon’s own mouth he said CAC. Creepy. If I caught it, I am sure a juror caught that too. I am not ready to give up on the prosecution.
Fogen’s phone records show a call to the NEN at 8 after. Again at 18 after there is another NEN call. Tmobile records the number dialed. Why did he not dial 911? Tmobile has no idea what SPD NEN. What they know is actual numbers dialed. A fight that Fogen said made him fear for his life yet he called NEN, that will be a problem. Wait for it.
Hey, just saying, my loving husband is 6″ 4′. He’s been choked up, emotional over the murder of Trayvon.
My goodness, I screwed up 6 feet 4 in Sorry , Kids,I went to sleep a few hours ago, now I’m back. I gotta get in the mode to fight another day for Trayvon. We must all stick together, for the conviction & imprisonment of fogen.
awww good men are hard to find (or should i say “good people”)
What Chris Serino told Lawrence O’Donnell last March 2012.
Thanks to NBC, The Last Word, and Lawrence O’Donnell. I might get the hang of this video thing yet.
Anybody else encouraged by this? 🙂
awesome thanks
I think one issue that is gonna come up at trial now will cause the jury and residents of Sanford to lose faith in the SPD
SPD are supposed to protect and serve and to simply buy the killer’s story without thoroughly and actively checking all evidence and facts, is a perversion of justice to that community
It does not take a genius to realize a killer has motive to lie and even on the first night, the issue is questionable at best
It does not make sense that Fogen was heard earlier stalking and profiling Trayvon with a hostile attitude and the kid he murdered was not a violent kid and if you check his clothing, he does not even look like a “thug” like his gang members claim Trayvon to be with no evidence whatsoever
Fogen was seen and heard way far from where he started, which is the clubhouse, and how a few minutes later, he is seen attacking and killing a kid, and that did not ring any alarms in Serino and Singleton’s heads?
I am not a detective myself, or a cop, just a person that is interested in Sherlock Holmes and forensics shows and law shows, and what happened afterward makes no sense whatsoever
People are just supposed to believe a 17 year old teenage boy with Skittles and Ice Tea, who was heard fleeing from Fogen, while Fogen went after him, and it’s supposed to be reasonable to believe Fogen’s claims?
Even on Fogen’s “re-enactment” the detectives thought he started running from the clubhouse, due to the NEN phone call
It’s gonna have to come in how the trial and evidence came about considering Bill Lee and Wolfinger fucked up big time and that Wolfinger has a connection to Fogen and PAPA Fogen said “make it go away” as if telling Wolfinger to sweep it under the rug
I am losing credibility with Serino because he’s said this, than said the opposite, and then said the other repeatedly, so now I think his demotion to uniform from detective can not be a coincidence
This is why people do not trust cops and I am not saying all cops are idiots or inept or dirty, but these few bad apples, cause people to feel that way about cops
You go to any ghetto, the Irish ghetto, the Chinese ghetto, the black ghetto, etc, and it’s stories like these that cause people to not trust the police
well said
just watching what i missed last night….it’s true his story was reasonably similar ….. in the reenactment to his first statement…nothing jumps out….but wipe the smug smile off your face omara….none of it matches with the 911…..
on a side note i saw global grinds post on the revolting trayvon fb pages. I am glad they brought it to peoples attention but wish they would not display those images on their page….once upon a time people died and the whole fucking world did not have the chance to point and ridicule the deceased. The internet is wonderful but sometimes it fucking sucks. No victim should be treated that way. I can’t believe the world we live in now days, where someones death is paraded to the masses as a joke. These photos should not have been released to the public, and if you must show the trial proceedings live then have a fucking heart and keep sensitive material for only those that need to see it.
if facebook don’t do something their needs to be another million hoodie march…..freedom of speech has a lot to answer for.
Hey Jo, i love this, you are so right. wait me, while i reread, okay, I’ve read it. My heart is forever broken for Trayvon Martin. I just wish & hope & pray something positive will occur because of his life, Tracy & Sybrina ,Hang on , I love you two, Justice For Trayvon He was an angel
the internet is where ALL find their group, even sociopaths
don’t worry, most people are not that indecent.
watching the parts i missed …. serino was concerned he was uncaring…..but not to the questions….
haha omara you dick….cavalier because he wants to watch a movie…..
kind of off topic…was being nosey and checked out brandy’s fb page, she has a photo of chad with a young child as profile pic, was wondering if she and tracy have a little one.
@Jo. Why don’t you include a link so others can see what you saw?
https://www.facebook.com/brandy.green.3532?fref=ts
sorry i thought most knew of this page.
@jo. It says the content is unavailable.
Why? You might be surprised of the number of people who do not have Facebook accounts, neither visit Facebook pages unless they are recommended. I’m one of them.
why? because at the very beginning most people following were aware of sybrina, tracy, jaharvis, osterman etc on facebook….i hadn’t looked in a while but when i saw this photo i wondered if maybe they had a baby together recently. I was reading something about jaharvis and then went to tracy then to brandy..
Tracy did become a new father this past year. His new baby’s initials are TBM, like Trayvon’s, IIRC. Not really sure where I learned that information.
Food for thought.
If this was such an easy case for the defense, WHY NO SYG hearing before trial? Easy peasy. But not taken advantage of…..
2. Remember the state’s opening.
3. Serino did not reveal all today, as his investigation was left hanging and charges not filed, his work was essentially over and he towed the official line then and today, except for his comments to Lawrence O’Donnel (see upthread forThe Last Word video link from last year.
Serino will defer to the new investigation.
4. Notice what the defense didn’t ask about? And they will not, because opinion won’t change the direct evidence one iota. The FDLE is carrying the torch on that one now.
yep thats what i was saying earlier….let the statements speak and then the new investigation where he was charged will point out the reasons why…those reasons being all the inconsistencies and lies once all the facts were in.
I would really like for us to respect and appreciate Professor Leatherman allowing us to participate on this blog. Can we just ignore what we don’t agree with? We cannot control other peoples actions but we can control our reactions.
@dianetrotter. There are certain posted comments on this blog that Zidiots use to harass blog administrators and send off on twitter, postured to support their theory that all Trayvon Martin supporters are Black racists whose opinion on GZ’s guilt is based on emotion. Zidiots spam that info out shortly after those comments are posted.
Such comments that have no response are postured to allege that “Trayonites” have no answers or in the alternative, agrees with the person.
One of their methods also includes having infiltrators pose as Black to post insulting comments, cause discord, criticize, etc. We’re behind computer screens and can be polka dot, so why does anyone have to voluntarily reveal their race unless it’s to support a life experience that supports their interest in this case?
Sincere, mature people who appreciate this blog know how to apologize when offending others, rather than becoming more mean-spirited, IMHO.
well played!
yep
of course george wasn’t following trayvon, trayvon was just going everywhere george was going 5 seconds before he got there…quick somebody call 911, trayvon was anti-stalking.
Slight correction: According to your description, jo, Trayvon was ante-stalking.
haha what a twit!.thanks Malisha…yes i kind of messed up my point with that mistake….
Coming to a theater near you
Trayvon, The Time Traveling Trolling Stalker
Be afraid, there will be skipping…
Ir is my understanding, that Fogen can seek immunity after the state presents it’s case. Unless a big change in testimony is on the way, he just may get it. Something definitely needs to happen.
If Fogen takes the stand it will be as a last resort.
Florida statute for immunity is a pre-trial hearing decided by the judge. Notice that Judge Nelson neither the State responded to O’Mara’s claims of rolling the immunity hearing in with trial or post-trial, because they know O’Mara will need to motion for that, and statute does not support him.
Thank you so much! I appreciate all the help I can get.
Go to three threads back on this blog. Some folks posted them there.
Thank you–I’ll await further discussion. I saw the records and didn’t know enough to make anything of the raw data.
Someone this AM mentioned that Zim’s phone records had just been released. Anyone know where?
just released or are you taking about the ones we looked at last night?
Click to access June_27_Exhibits_and_Identification_List.pdf
O.K. about this nonsense about Zimmerman not knowing that he shot Trayvon…I think this makes him look really bad because before the police got there, he and Manolo were taking pictures while a motionless human being was lying on the ground and never once did he try to check to see if there could be anything done to save this person’s life. It speaks volumes to the kind of person he was. I mean, they took pictures of the body but provided no support? Looks bad.
kind of like a depraved mind?
Yep
and jaw-jacking about the caliber of bullet. Talk about some cold Mother-Father-Sister-Brothers!
so true, refer to DW having a hissy fit about the pros calling DR Nakasone…”But that’s my witness”…I’m waiting for tomorrow to see how the pros handles the redirect
Guys have confidence
I think the state’s strategy is to leave the defense with so few witnesses to call that they will look stupid resting without calling the killer to the stand, this will be preceded by a thorough demolishing of their witnesses, having been surreptitiously called by the state as their own, through forensics analysis. This is why Serino is up there as a defense witness called up by the prosecution
Serino never broke rank officially
he was called up strategically
and I expect that if he is not embarrassed on redirect he will be by the forensics
just started reading up thread and it seems everyone has calmed down and caught on
hoodies up
I sure hope you’re right. Admittedly I’ve gotten a bit discouraged, especially when you have the media practically celebrating a defense victory with their analysis. I believe things will begin to come together once we get into the forensics. The science isn’t subjective, thank God.
I love your spirit, Tzar. Are you married?
no, you got a wife for me 🙂
Giggles. Okay. Back to the task at hand.
ha ha ha ha
Tzar … aren’t you auditioning that fine brunette on the prosecution side?
It’s open auditions 🙂
Professor, I’m scared. You don’t sound like you are sure that Zimmerman will be found guilty of murder now. I am so sad now. Please tell us that you’re still extremely confident in his conviction. I’m starting to lose hope 😦
The Professor has enough trial experience to know that the outcome is never certain.
It’s not certain, but he’s sounded so confident in the past, and now he doesn’t sound that way. :`(
BDLR had so many opportunities to wrap this up. He’s to conservative. I would not be surprise that BDLR won’t ask serino about the charges. And what happend to the time line?
Silk the best will come out after the Defence case in rebuttal
This is still the case in chief
wait until the defences debacle of a show
An then rebuttal will be hammer time.
Also, one witness saw Trayvon’s leg move. This is consistent with a quick flipping over of the victim.
Analysts seem to skim over a major inconsistency between GZ’s statements and with a fact about the case. This is not minor. He spoke it, demonstrated it, and emphasized details about it. This was a pure fabrication.
How could GZ spread Trayvon’s arms out when the young man’s arms were underneath his body? Why would the killer tell such a lie?
As a group, we need to pound that fact into the minds of everyone. This is one inconsistency that cannot be explained away.
It was an instinctive lie Diary73
He knew people witnessed him flip TRAYVON BODY.
He couldn’t say I was on top when I shot him an was making sure there was no hollow point in the ground or I would have to say I was a top when I shot him
But there was no exit wound in Trayvons bback an no scorched earth
So his beating me an Im under neath lie could fly with wings.
But he had to account for flipping the body so the spreading arms looking for bricks lie was born of nessesity.
Still Born but still birthed by foggagge.
Yes, it’s an incredibly important one I think. Everything rests on whether he moved his hands. He says he did. But we know he didn’t. We know he was choking the life out of a little boy so he couldn’t tell the world what Zimmerman had done to him. Oh, he is just such a terrible, terrible person.
there are many of you who would ask valid questions to bring light to the many lies being told…
I didn’t know nancy grace took questions on her show, has anyone ever tried to call in with any of the many questions on this site to refute what is being published during the trial or in the media
After watching the last 30 minutes of today’s proceedings, I want to say something to Rachael:
Congratulations, Rachael! At the age of only 19, you were able to maintain your integrity in spite of O’Mara!!!
You will ALWAYS be able to sleep soundly at night knowing that you can live with yourself because of your strength and honesty. You have the courage that many grown and experienced men do not have.
I second your sentiment, YAHTC.
Last night, I kept what I said vague. Today, I will write what I was specifically thinking last night:
Rachael, You have the courage that Serino, a grown and experienced man, does not seem to have:
ay2z posted this below:
http://frederickleatherman.com/2013/07/01/sixth-day-of-trial-ends-in-zimmerman-case/#comment-166458
@Two sides
3rd!
The Fogdoit has the choice to take the stand and defend his actions or refuse and let the jury decide his fate with out his voice being heard! Don’t think for a moment that he is not calling the shots on his defense, watch as he takes notes, makes out que cards for MOM/West as to what to say or ask. I predict he will testify, his ego will demand it! He still thinks his charm (and daddy’s influence will get him out of any mess)!
The other thing is. It is up to George Zimmerman to take the stand. His Defense Team can advise him not to but at the end of the day. If he wants to explain why he did what he did, that’s on him. Am I correct on this Professor?
God, I am so glad I watch HLN Dr Drew tonight… it put mind at ease at Singleton and Serino. I now see where BDLR was going with this today.
1. He was trying to show the jury the inconsistencies of both interviews in which it didn’t matter whether both Singleton or Serino felt if it was consistent. Plus, he will also show the Video of the Hannity interview as well and the 4th one. In the Hannity he admits that Trayvon didn’t circle his car.
2. He showed that Zimmerman used the terminology of “suspect” which is LE gib for gab not a person of NW which shows fogen wanting to be a WannaB Cop which also shows him to be the “aggressor” in this case.
3. One of the Lawyers for the Martin Family gave Big Ups for the Prosecution today. If they still have the Faith… it rubbed on me…
I am yet holdin’ on. Whonoze earlier posted Glibreath’s testimony that the state will prevail because they have Fogen’s statements, the body, and the shell casings. Today’s witnesses from SPD (Singleton, Serino) authenticated Fogen’s audio/video interrogations and written statement for admission into evidence. No other witnesses could have done that. Those statements need to be compared with the forensic evidence that will come in directly from Trayvon’s body (through the ME) and the shell casing (FDLE Ballistics). Guy laid it all out in his opening statement; the forensics will show that no version of Fogen’s lies (regardless of their internal consistencies or inconsistencies) could have happened. So even if Singleton/Serino had no reason to doubt that Fogen believed he acted in self-defense, the numbers (measurements/timeline/physics) don’t lie.
🙂
^ this
Exactly, Medusausi. That was the point several of us were trying to make on the last thread.
Was he skipping was he running where you following where you looking for an address did he call you homie did he attack you with a side walk dog track smother you punch you reach for your gun ?
Can I take the Fith ?
What
Can Itake he fith admendmant on reasons that if I tell the truth I will go to HELL
An I don’t want to incinerate my self?
You see I been to law school I know Im not allowed to kill as A Catholic an I cant incinerate myself in hades.
Incinerate? Incriminate myself. no, I’m not being funny by trying to correct your spelling because when I read that, It reminded me so much of Lenny and Squiggy of Laverne and Shirley.
I love reading your comments as some of them are on the light side. you are a hoot.
Lady, I believe Colin uses translator technology in order to participate. You probably knew this, but many of our newbies may not.
Serrino Chapter Two the the Interveiw m o m calls the challenge interview .
Kind of hard to challenge some one when ever you ask them a chalengeing question.
They lower there voice to a whisper an say
SOTTO VOICE ..I cant remember.
The prosecution is proving their case witness by witness. I for one believe they are doing a fine job. We have all the evidence the jury doesn’t, so every one relax more video are coming and forensic are coming and the biggest witness to be called will be Ms. Fulton
Serino said that Zimmerman was either telling the truth or was a complete pathological liar. O’Mara said that if you eliminate the complete pathological liar part, what does that leave? And Serino said, “The truth.” And so the day ended.
However, it is an open question how Serino would have answered if he had been asked if you eliminate the truthful part, what does that leave? I think Serino, being as honest as he is able to be, would have replied …
This trial rises and fall on exactly this point — is George Zimmerman truthful or is he a liar?
eliminate thetruth an that’s a given
A Gimmee
A nailed on certainty
And what do you have left?
A PATHOLIGICAL CRAKERARSEDRAPISTCREEPY PATHALOGICAL LIAR.
malamiyya says
EXACTLY!!
because of the wording of the question, there was only one possible answer. this will get addressed in re-direct examination and the prosecution gets the last word in putting on their case.
Ive had three fuse lower vertibre since forever an I know all about back pain believe you me.
And I know all about physio therapy for back an lower back pain
An over the tears at varios physio waiting rooms Ive encountered scores of people with BACK BAINS OF EVERY KIND.
You no what never in over 27 years Have I ever heard anyone take mma or kick boxing or self defence classes at gym to help cure/ease back pain.
That sort of stuff would cause someone with genuine back pain to freak out it worst nighmare scenario situation.
An wich medical examiner recommended M M A for help in reduceing back pain
I know you guy do things different in America but come on?
His earlier back pain–per the PA was related to constipation. The exercise related to difficulty sleeping. Her note was that he was still having difficulty. Sounded like drug-seeking to me.
@Colin Black, as a fellow back pain sufferer of degenerative disc disease I agree with you 1000%. I know that I read some where that Fogen had problems with his back and, it seems to me that he is trying to blame that on Trayvon as well.
I couldn’t even do the Zumbia exercises let alone MMA style exercises. some even got on the stand and lied about him having grass and, wetness on his back that I still haven’t seen on any of the tapes.
Didn’t Serino want 2nd degree murder charges filed? That would seem to be inconsistent with his testimony. Also, has O’Mara opened the door so that Seriano is free to opine on other aspects of Zimmerman’s truthfulness?
Ah hem
LLMPapa says:
July 1, 2013 at 7:24 pm
Does it really come as a surprise to anyone the 2 primary investigators for SPD don’t begin to grasp the impossibility of Zimmerman’s space/time continuum?
So far it seems like neither the defense nor the prosecution grasps it either
There is also documentation about GZ’s previous back problems with the chair incident at his previous place of employment.
Now that the GZ’s alleged back injuries and the alleged mentoring as well as GZ’s wife being a student nurse, can the prosecution refute this. Surely they have done research as to the mentoring, back injuries and ShelLIE’s supposed nursing school.
If these things are untrue or the truth is distorted is the prosecution able to point this out. Professor? Anyone?
I have been wondering this too.
@jm
do you honestly believe the mentoring or shellies misguided adventures in academia are remotely relevant to an M2 case?
they are not.
Did fogen say an ‘RN student’? “good to keep her busy.” in today’s walk through ending? RN?
yep and you should know my skepticism of shellie’s education. the question is one of relevance as would the defense attorney’s and a judge’s upholding of the objection.
I swear you guys help ease my mind along with my valium. 🙂
Remember this? Chris Serino had to leave his investigtion to the FDLE, but remember what he said to Lawrence O’Donnell on The Last Word.
http://video.msnbc.msn.com/the-last-word/46875482
O’Donnel doing piece on the trial right now, and will have a commentary on RJ.
Thanks, I don’t get that channel but will watch TLW for that.
(the video I linked, you only need the first minute for the Chris Serino comments from last year.
http://tv.msnbc.com/shows/the-last-word/
I have been at work all day so I depend on this blog to keep me informed. I rushed home to catch HLN because they have a decent panel at night. I was very disappointed to hear that they still believe that prosecution gained minimum points, they said that Serino and Singleton seemed to be witnesses for the defense and they are correct!! This is awful, these people are full of shit!! Serino says out of the blue that he knew after he said that he mentored African American children that this was not about race. This is a mess and if people don’t believe that that will stay with the jury are sadly mistaken. 2 jurors have husbands who are attorney’s , it seems that everyone in that courtroom has something to lose depending on the outcome of this case.
that’s not my take on the African American children… Fogen told Serino he mentors African American children… so Serino couldn’t understand why Fogen didn’t stop to identify himself to Trayvon instead of helping him.
correction: He couldn’t understand why Fogen didn’t stop to help Trayvon by identifying himself instead of the end result.
sorry.
Thank you. I saw that repeated several times on HlLN, each time thinking that it didn’t match with what I remembered.
we have to remember GZs’ cousin, her description of his persona, he has the ability to be charming to get what he wants, knows how to make people laugh, when confronted by her parents in reference to his behavior of being inappropriately intimate with their daughter apologized without explanation and left. can convince one to see the situation his way and participate in the wrong doing with the belief that he is right and what is wrong is right while instilling a fear of telling; will only bring shame to his victim. to date his plan still works
I truly believe every word from her mouth. fogen should’ve been in prison yrs. ago.
What I heard Serino say was , if CAC had such a rapport with black children by mentoring them , why didn’t he just tell Trayvon he was NW ( paraphrasing). As CAC testimony did not add up
Y’all need to read this. I mean read it… I always read Michael Skolnick articles and I missed this one… dang it… This is what I was talking about earlier about all the different interviews he has been on. My mind isn’t all that great… but shoot… but Great minds think alike… sometimes… ha HA! U Go Trayvon… I knew you had a Message up there in them Clouds for us. If they don’t hear it in the court room… we hear it for dang sure…
http://globalgrind.com/news/8-reasons-george-zimmerman-afraid-to-take-the-stand-michael-skolnik-exclusive-blog#ixzz2XqLU3yQ5
We know what the TRUTH IS… HOODIES UP Y’ALL!
That’s a great article. Covers many of the points we’ve covered here.
Maybe I missed it, did BDLR ask Serino if he wanted to initially file charges against GZ?
Nope.
Not yet.
Thank you…
i went to sleep at 4 am after the re-enactment and missed everything after. When BDLR cross examined singleton he seemed pissed and she seemed shocked, lets hope he lets rip in his cross of serino.
I don’t know exactly how things work in trials but i’m thinking and hoping that all the issues we feel are being missed will be addressed later on by witnesses and that the state has a plan. Hopefully they are letting the defense talk and talk and will hit them with the facts when all the information is in;
Perhaps when they get those that re-investigated on the stand all the discrepencies and reasons why they decided to charge will become apparent.
I’m shocked that to wake and hear Serino thought it was self defense, he clearly didn’t believe a lot of what Zimmerman was saying, but since he never mentioned the bullshit of being king hit at the T and then flailing to the murder scene, or the timing of the supposed circling of the car, or a lot of other inconsistencies when putting in his report it might be useless at this point to ask him about them. I’m sure there is a lot more to come that will prove the states case.
*****this is a re-post and may show up again somewhere, i put a full stop after my name originally and it is waiting to be modified so i am just copy pasting, cheers.*****
bdlr should put into evidence Gz arriving at the precinct the next day trotting up the stairs with his sunglasses around his neck like he was the star from Miami five “O”. his back injury was obviously cured within some 20 odd hours of his tragic event
haha spot on!
i went to sleep at 4 am after the re-enactment and missed everything after. When BDLR cross examined singleton he seemed pissed and she seemed shocked, lets hope he lets rip in his cross of serino.
I don’t know exactly how things work in trials but i’m thinking and hoping that all the issues we feel are being missed will be addressed later on by witnesses and that the state has a plan. Hopefully they are letting the defense talk and talk and will hit them with the facts when all the information is in;
Perhaps when they get those that re-investigated on the stand all the discrepencies and reasons why they decided to charge will become apparent.
I’m shocked that to wake and hear Serino thought it was self defense, he clearly didn’t believe a lot of what Zimmerman was saying, but since he never mentioned the bullshit of being king hit at the T and then flailing to the murder scene, or the timing of the supposed circling of the car, or a lot of other inconsistencies when putting in his report it might be useless at this point to ask him about them. I’m sure there is a lot more to come that will prove the states case.
Angela Corey said it best…WAIT for ALL the evidence to come out.
I still have not watched the last 30 minutes of the trial today, but will watch soon.
I actually am glad that gz was not arrested the first night. If he had been arrested that first night, we would never have gotten the reenactment video and his other interviews that were full of lies that contradicted his lies from the first night.
And, we never would have gotten the pure golden 3rd interview of 2/29/12 where Serino played the NEN tape and W11’s 911 call to gz and nailed him.
If gz had been arrested the first night, he would have clammed up and lawyered up.
BLDR let Serino and Singleton justify why they did not arrest him the first night. That is all that I saw today.
Now I am going to watch the last 30 minutes of today’s proceedings.
purely golden
I do NOT understanding WHY WHY WHY gz was NOT arrested on February 29!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wolfinger was still denying the capias request. Remember the Professor’s article, he was arrested on the 26th (if you don’t, I’ll try to find it for you). He simply was not booked through to the jail, but was released. That was Wolfinger/Lee, and it was still in the mix on the 29th.
Lord have mercy, me too It’s unbelievable! I’ve been saying the same thing all day. No excuse in the world, SPD sucks, well at least the bosses.
I hope the jurors noticed how foolish and deceitful the killer was with those knuckle bandages on his head …. and nonbroken nose
I had dinner with a woman tonight who said she thought probably Fogen would get off because of that picture of his broken nose. I said, “Oh do you mean the picture with the blood on his nose and lips?” YES she did. I went over to her computer and pulled up pictures of Fogen’s face from that night. I started with the picture Wagner took.
“Look at that blood, look at that nose. OK?”
Yeah, that’s what I saw over and over.
“OK, now look at this picture [showed the one with his eyes closed and his nose — right side — showing] OK?”
Yeah. Who’s that?
“Same guy, same day, later in the evening, maybe four hours later.”
Really?
“Yeah. Now look at THIS one.” (full face same night, at police station, two little dots on tip of nose and one little scratch on the right side of the bridge of his nose)
OH! Is that him too?
Right. Same night, same nose.
Oh my! That was nothing. Why didn’t they SAY that?
Look at THIS now. (I go back to the Wagner picture.) Look closely. Blood does not come from the nostrils at all, see? It all comes from the tip of his nose where the two little pinpoints appear.
Oh you’re RIGHT!
And it’s only a thimble-full of blood, smeared on his nose and lips.
RIGHT!
[Then I took my right hand and made a gun shape and pointed it forward] That gun he had: cheap gun, kal-tec. BIG recoil. Shoot it one-handed? [I did so and my hand shot back to bop me in the nose] RECOIL! Pops you right in the nose!
Oh my god that’s RIGHT! Why didn’t they SAY SO?
They’ll get there.
Oh, I’m in moderation? Please disregard the long comment. I may stop following the case. Thanks so much.
I also think Omara screwed his client with his questioning of can’t think of the term he keeps using, but when he questioned serino about his clients demeanor of not being available the next day because he had to go to class and to work…bdlr should come back with; if gz was so concerned about his previous near to death experience he should have been stating he would not be available because he was going to seek medical treatment for his many fatal injuries…that is what near to death injured victims do..they document their injuries for future use/proof of existence.
BDLR can’t “come back” with anything. He is NOT giving evidence. The lawyers can’t give evidence. Anything he wants to show,. he has to bring WITNESSES for.
Yes, and he has a lot to bring, including FDLE
Flat affect.
ty collin
I went to the global grind poll. A slight majority think Trayvon started the “fight.” SMH. I see no evidence of a fight. I see an armed ex bouncer trying to detain a free citizen of this country, a child. I see a child running away, towards his home. Did he have keys on him? Could Chad not hear him trying to get in? Who knows. Trayvon TRIES to run away, this adult pursues him and kills him. Afterwards the murderer coldly says “I shot him” and asks for help in “restraining the guy.” The dead guy? I am sitting in my home baffled. Zimmerman says on a recording that the assholes always get away. There is the proof there that one person is looking for someone, and one person is TRYING to escape. (Oh shit, he ran!)
What a load of bs. You steal human beings from their home, enslave them, “free” them, then tell them they are not welcome. But you have created a whole new people. Trayvon is not African, he is American. He doesn’t speak any dialect on the continent of Africa, he listens to American music, rides horses, plays the All American sport football as a young child. He belongs here, and those American streets were HIS to walk on as well. What people are saying is Trayvon doesn’t have the right to walk on the streets. They are saying, yes, it is okay to follow and harass black children, AND kill them with thanks from the good Christian folk. Nothing has changed since 1950. 1/2 of the country is saying that black people have some abnormal subhuman characteristics. A skinny black child with junk food talking on the phone almost beat an armed stranger to death while the MMA trained stranger lay there passively.
Thank you Mr. Zimmerman for waking me up. (blech)
I’ll really be quiet now.
Has anyone delved into the reading materials for the criminal justice courses that fogen was in?
Somewhere fogen gets his ideas for his ideas, and they are not likely original thought.
Maybe we should set out to read those textbooks, and find handout materials from that instructor.
BTW, who is Shoemaker??
Don’t think we will find out much from the books he was reading
Wheres Wally
Or see Spot Run don’t come up often in Criminal Law.
LOL colin!
His grades are pretty good evidence that he didn’t bother to read them.
Make them go away….my people will understand what I mean. I don’t have highwater pants for the flooding!!!
The ghost was flooding?
Have faith.
Biggest revelation for me today?
Fogen’s map proving irrefutably that he parked his car at and chased Trayvon from near the mailboxes. I knew he was lying about where the chase started but I didn’t know about his map.
I did not know that Fogen had pretended he didn’t know Martin was dead. That was an obvious and unnecessary lie and if the jury are paying attention it dooms Zimmerman’s self defense claim. If he didn’t think he had killed Martin to the point that he didn’t find out until Singleton told him, why on earth did he stop screaming after the shot was fired? Clearly he was, why did he stop screaming?
Because in his story, Trayvon sat up and said a bunch of stuff, needed to be restrained, and went down still cursing.
But he forgot that people saw him walk away from Trayvon. Why did he walk all the way to the trash receptacle thinking Martin was still alive? BDLR could have mentioned this to Singleton.
Tasha that question is for George, he is the only one that can answer that and hopefully George will take the stand however he does not have to. Their are rules the state cannot break if their is a conviction the state nor the judge wants anything to occur to overturn the conviction.
But — but — Jon testified that GZ said to him that he was being beaten up and had to shoot the guy. So, GZ knew he had shot Trayvon. For him to call NEN rather than 911 for an ambulance supports his depraved mind.
Meant Fogen was NOT screaming
Tasha, I’ll respond here to get out my agree with you in general about the piss poor job BDLR is doing, and please people, stop calling other people names.
I was shocked beyond belief to hear how Singleton and Serino not only botched their jobs, but to this day don’t think they found and discrepancies even though each of us can recite them chapter and verse. But when Singleton said that she didn’t see anything contradicted by the facts, why didn’t BDLR ask her:
Q: Now at the time of this interview, you talked with John Good, correct? And you talked with Selma Mora?
A: No
Q: You hadn’t? Why not?
A: We didn’t know about her.
Q: And are you now aware that she saw Mr. Zimmerman on top of Trayvon Martin about five seconds after the shot rang out and saw him stand up and immediately make a phone call?
A: I am now.
Q: And you hadn’t even interviewed her or taken a statement, correct?
A: Correct.
Q: Is that considered good police work?
A: I couldn’t say, we just work with what we have.
Q: But you could have had more if you’d interviewed this witness earlier, correct?
A: I guess so.
Q: And you knew, at the time of these interviews, that Trayvon was actually on the phone at the time he was killed?
A: No.
Q: You didn’t know this? So you hadn’t yet reviewed his phone records and you hadn’t spoken to the person he was talking to just before Mr. Zimmerman killed him?
A: No.
Q: And so, at the time you made these interviews, you didn’t have the whole story, did you?
A: No.
Q: And so any impressions you got about his truthfulness were based on only part of the story, correct?
A: Correct.
Q: And so in hindsight, knowing what you know now, there’s no way you could decide about his truthfulness, is there?
A: I was just going by the information I had at the time.
Nothing further.
We haven’t gotten to the “didn’t then” and “does now” part yet.
I haven’t seen any indication that BDLR has it in him. If this were a basketball game, it’d be 35-10 after the first quarter. Yes, the prosecution can start the work of clawing back but so far, they’re playing zero defense and missing easy foul shots. I’m really upset at what I’m seeing and I don’t think sugar coating it does anyone any good. This is a travesty so far. The Martin’s deserve justice and that means someone in that SA office needs to give two shits and start scoring some points.
I’m not sugar-coating anything. I just believe that the trial is not over, and BLDR’s strategy is not yet known. He would not sit quietly by without making objections unless there is something he wants on the record via the defense.
Too bad this is not a basketball game! If it was we would not have a dead 17 year old child, and we would not have so many amateur coach’s sitting behind keyboards trying to out think the people that have many years of experience!
Crazy- you are a liar. Because there ain’t NOTHING crazy about you!! Dound eirds of advice you give. Bernie is about to be awarded a very prestigious lawyer award later this month. You don’t get those by throwing cases or doing dumb shit. He has fought cases for many years while very few in this blog are even lawyers. Heck, some folks only have 40 credit hours to their name! So wait. Chess takes a whole lot more strategy to play than basketball.
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
What they think now is not relevant. Their opinion is NEVER relevant, unless it led (past tense) to their doing something to further the case.
It does NOT MATTER what the cops think. It only matters what they thought AT THE TIME which is what influenced their actions. NOBODY acts because of something that hasn’t happened yet.
I disagree. Omara extracted the opposite information. Very good Unabogie.
Otherwise known as Alfred E.
😉
That is for cross!
I understand now why GZ said singleton had a look of authority, and to me it was not a compliment, she is one rough looking female. not to be mean, but I was quite surprised after hearing her voice on the recorded statements I really expected to see a softer looking woman…I know this has nothing to do with anything but damn..her eyebrows were a hot ass mess..im sorry excuse my bad humor
He was sucking up, nothing more.
F—ng fogen is a pro at sucking up . Thats all an ass loser like him can do.
He’s a toady to anyone in a position of power and a bully to those he believes are weaker or of lesser status than himself. Regardless of the outcome of this trial, life isn’t going to treat him kindly.
She will not be winning any beauty contests. I had a feeling that the strong voice on the interviews had a strong face to match…I underestimated how strong. I get your bad humor…her eyebrows were a hot ass mess!
bring ithard
Where am I? Everyone really needs to calm down. My God the State has to put it all out there whether we LIKE it or NOT. Would you rather the jury think they withheld information from them? BDLR put in lots of information, lots of lies from Zimmerman today. Serino is answering questions for the first 24-36 hours after the murder. They did not know as much. As far as they knew John Goode told the truth.
BDLR will keep going. I personally hope he does not read here. I think it would bother him that most here have stopped supporting him. This case is 16 months in the making. 6 days into and you all have given up? What about all the evidence that we have not seen. This is a puzzle.
Colin you have been here for a long time most of us know you and none of us think you are illiterate. I am sorry I even read that comment. I hope you calm down, you are an avid supporter of Trayvon.
I disagree that most have stopped supporting him. New influx, maybe…
The histrionics are beyond annoying.
I totally agree.
Those who don’t support just stand out more, because, well you know. But, I think a strong majority of folks here are watching, holding a good thought, keeping the faith and are generally supportive.
Yup. It’s getting really irritating. We haven’t even gotten to forensics and the coop of chicken littles that has materialized here seem to think the trial ends tomorrow or something.
Serino and Singleton had very little evidence to go on, but people are carrying on as if their assessments of the case AT THE TIME are the final word on GZ’s guilt or innocence.
“Why didn’t Bernie object? Why didn’t he point out inconsistencies?” The inconsistencies have been introduced, on cross S & S minimized them, and tomorrow BDLR can come back and go over these carefully in order to make them glaring, further shooting down GZ’s narratives. Once these are highlighted and clarified, and the jurors hopefully have their a-ha moments, MOM’s further questions will only make the lies even clearer.
One of the things that struck me first about this site was the lack of histrionics. Not saying people didn’t express emotion, but it wasn’t a scream fest of indignation. It wasn’t a never-ending-posting of WHAAAAAA. I appreciated that. And I have faith it will get back on track and the enormously intelligent people who post insight will prevail. (I’m not one of them, BTW, which is why I don’t post too often.)
The histrionics are the people that think everyone scared about this case are trolls or jumping ship. Not a single person here doubts Zimmerman’s guilt.
his·tri·on·ic
/ˌhistrēˈänik/
Adjective
Overly theatrical or melodramatic in character or style.
Puck- yes. Aka Tashatexas.
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
I’m not pointing fingers at anyone. 😉
Puck- certainly not. You are a gentle person of great character. Not like me at all. 🙂
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
Judy, you have a formidable intellect. Post more often.
Judy- don’t discount that steady head on your shoulders. Passion is one thing. Fireworks is another.
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
I, personally, have not and will not give up. However, I think there’s a difference between “giving up” and pointing out the things that you believe could have been presented in a different (and perhaps better) way. We are not all going to agree on everything. Even the Professor stated
Clearly, I should have proofed that better and noted the code wan’t complete. My bad.
Many years ago a man sold me a car under false pretenses. All my friends said ” quick, grt rid of it, sell it to someone else.” I couldn’t do that, I kept thinking about how shitty I felt that I was cheated. I decided to sue the man & pressed charges. He showed up in court with his lawyer, I had none. I also had no real knowledge of the legal system. The only thing I had was the promise that our legal system was basically fair. Long story short, the judge heard all the evidence & made the man take the car back & give me my $$$. It seems to me, if we try our best, we have to allow the universe to work out the rest. When trying to convey information, force feeding isn’t always the best method. When you plant seeds , you do not get down in the soil & force them to grow, you water them & nurture them. IMO, it is similar with facts. Patience is one of the hardest lessons to incorporate into ones arsenal of survival tactics.
You’re right, disappointed, those of us who’ve been here for a long time know that Colin is far from illiterate. I’ve come to enjoy his posting style, and appreciate his insights a great deal. As someone who’s worked in literacy programs, though, I’m offended whenever anyone uses ‘illiterate’ in an attempt to smear and hurt another person. We all saw how GZ supporters slimed Rachel Jeantel for her inability to read cursive. I pm;y widh that I were trilingual, and had half the grit that young woman displayed!
Thanks for what you do and who you are, Colin.
Thanks disapointed, today was a low point for me until I realized Fogen was exposed and as you said the questions were for the first few day’s before. Also, IMO Serino was forced to say this was SYG, however, any corruption by the SPD is being looked at by the FBI the state has to be careful not to tread on thier territory.
@disappointed
yes, it feels positively bat shit crazy around here. it is not, of course, most of us who have given up on BDLR. i think it is quite obvious that a rash of newcomers with questionable motives are doing their best to make it seem so.
i am scratching my head a bit over today’s testimony, but trust that most was necessary and that more shall be revealed.
Does anybody here seriously believe that Trayvon took a bullet to the heart and sat up and started talkin like some B list movie script… He couldn’t form a word and you best believe if he could it would have been help…. the prosecutor has so much more to bring and I say bring hard. I have faith in these 6 women.
If Trayvon sat up and spoke after a bullet in the chess, I am the easter bunny. Hippity hopping along.
here’s one for ya …
if Trayvon sat up and kept talkin since the killer claims he was talkin the whole time…
then why the hell did the killer stop screamin
good one
BINGO!
Wow! If given the opportunity, BDLR and company can ask why?
Good one.
Impossible
@HereslookingatYou.
Let’s agree quickly with our adversary and say that Trayvon sat up and talked after being shot in the heart. Now, let’s see where that puts GZ in his claim of self-defense. First, he said that he “felt” Trayvon saw the gun and went for it. But then, he says that he thought Trayvon was saying “Okay. You have a gun. I heard it.” Would Trayvon convey that if he saw and went for the gun?
So, let’s agree that Trayvon with GZ and say that after he fired the gun, Trayvon sat up and talked, and in response, GZ sat his fat ass on the kid and looked for something in his hands rather than calling 911 and also — rather than finding out where the bullet went.
What GZ effectively demonstrates is that his gun gave him the authority to violate Trayvon’s civil rights with an illegal search. And remember, Judge Nelson is allowing the State to use “wannabee cop.”
Singleton wants us to believe that Fogen did not know Trayvon was dead until she told him at the police station. She describes him as “shocked”. After shooting Trayvon…Fogen was up walking around,talking on his cellphone,having pictures taken,holstering his gun. Why did he not know Trayvon was dead?
*He knew Trayvon was dead*
Why did BDLR not take the opportunity to tell her that what she didn’t know is that FOGEN had gotten up and left the body lying in the grass, even made a phone call before police arrived? I don’t know.
Singleton did not know what he knew. He acted shocked. In hindsight she may know differently now, but that night she had no clue. Tasha BDLR is not allowed to tell them things. He is to elicit their answers. He has said it over and over.
You said it better than I did below.
Omara sneaks crap in all the time. “So the officer at the scene didn’t tell you witnesses said Zimmerman had gotten up and left the body in the grass?” Time for BDLR to play hardball.
@tasha
i highly recommend that you read the juror instructions for the state of florida for criminal proceedings. if you had been listening to judge nelson, you would have already heard her instruct the jury that attorney statements are not evidence. they will also be reminded of this at closing arguments.
Because she didn’t know that during her interviews with GZ, about which she was testifying.
We keep telling you, Tasha. The evidence is about what they knew or did AT THE TIME. BDLR does not have to try and convince the witnesses. He has to convince the jury.
“what would you have thought if you’d known this or that” is playing guessing games. Not evidence.
THAT is why he is not asking them all the things you think he should be asking.
O’Mara does that all the time. That may be why it seems like it is OK to do it. BDLR is not calling him on it so he continues.
He also knows it is not appropriate but people get away with more and more if you let them. That’s the whole Fogen story in a nutshell. Let a guy beat up on a woman, attack a copy, kick a dog, bully co-workers, cheat his attorneys, etc. etc., and guess what? Reward the behavior, get more of the behavior. A very simple system. It’s how we have produced Fogens all over the place in our society.
@aussie
bless you, you have for more patience and kindness in your heart than i can muster currently. thank you.
tasha asks
to edit, the following should not have been block quoted
because that fact has already been established by the eye witnesses who saw it. this has nothing to do with today’s testimony.
you really need to read and learn, this constant stream of disassociated nonsense is dreary.
I hope oysterman is next after the spd, he has a very special interpretation of events, or would his testimony be considered hearsay
25 minutes before the end of today’s session, on cross MO asks CS about the challenge interview of 02/29. CS agrees with MO’s statement that CS was rushed into the challenge interview due to “some of the external pressures that we now know existed in this case.”
Who was applying pressure on CS at that time?
And what was the pressure? Not to charge, to bring charges, what was it? (and who)
We “now know” they existed in this case.
That could only be the pressures to actually consider the possibility that Fogen murdered someone he shouldn’t have murdered. Because on 2/26/2012 he was almost automatically considered to have murdered someone he SHOULD have murdered. Ho hum.
I hope the state demonstrates how it is impossible to straddle someone and see their gun behind their hip…good gracious
lets us not forget in pitch black darkness, in a black holster
dayum straight…
inside his pants.
I believe all these f***ing lies will be exposed. Now I’m starting to lose faith. I gotta admit, I’m not crazy in love with the jury, but, I’m not giving up. Come on guys, let’s let the state do their job, they want m–f–ing fogen convicted.
nef says
eeeewwwwwww, my eyes! my eyes!
Here’s where Miss Cleo, formerly of the Psychic Network, might be helpful 🙂
I don’t think I can judge the prosecution before I have seen more of the evidence.
I don’t know if all their decisions have been good. However I can’t quite believe that BdlR did not see this coming at all.
I wonder if they have something indisputable that contradicts part of GZ’s account and kills the rest of his credibility, e.g. something that places TM at the mail boxes early. Of course has Rachel already done that, but unfortunately her word may not be enough. But something like only has its full effect if GZ’s old stories are all in evidence. BdlR could still have pushed harder against some questionable testimony, but that would explain why he called these people at all.
Or he just dropped the ball.
The biggest proof that Fogen started following Trayvon near the mailboxes came today when the state showed Fogen’s first map where he tells Singleton he first “lost sight” of Trayvon near the mailboxes. How is that possible? Where could he have gone that caused Zimmerman to loose sight of him? Umm….that would be when he “ran towards the back” as Zimmerman and DeeDee said. The other stuff was a bunch of lies because the FIRST TIME he lost of sight of Martin is what we heard on the NEN tape and losing sight of Martin caused him to chase him. If the State does not drive this home I’ll go insane.
tasha says
pack light, dearie, it’s a short trip.
Faux McCoy- LOL! Could walk it, even in Texas heat.
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
I agree Pyork, but I would go even further, i.e. if only the State has something that contradicts GZ’s account in such an irrefutable way that GZ’s credibility is so shot to pieces nothing he claims can be believed. Trouble neither forensics nor medicine are exact sciences, that is why both State and defence have their own. So just as the State’s forensic expert will affirm the trajectory of the bullet shows GZ could not have shot from underneath, my bet is, and I hope I am wrong, the defence’s one will be dedicated to raise one of those pesky reasonable doubts that it is the case, and while the State’s medical expert affirms that the bumps on GZ’s head were not life threatening, the defence’s will explain how that knowledge was only gained in hindsight and/or that GZ was not to know at the time whether a next blow would be fatal or leave him paralysed. IMO, the state absolutely must come up with something major to counter such possibilities, and to date they have shown, a) any head trauma can be serious, b) GZ was underneath during the actual melee as confirmed by the witnesses who were nearest and who saw the earlier part of the melee, c) spd basically believed GZ was telling the truth… need I go on ? I am very seriously concerned at the moment, just hoping that it will all work out in the wash!
I think today is what it is.
Nakasone says close friends and relatives are better at identifying voices than science.
Fogen’s inconsistencies and lies were fully exposed and we can hope that the jury “gets it.” They’ll be able to review the tapes and videos.
Singleton and Serino felt like Fogen was telling the truth early on. Singleton appeared to be more skeptical when she was interviewing Fogen than she is now. Serino seems more skeptical than Singleton, but wasn’t at first and was under pressure to make a faster decision than normal.
We already knew all of the above, so none of it should be that much of a surprise. But we’re taken off guard because we thought BDLR should be more aggressive and make more objections.
Serino comes back tomorrow. We should probably be prepared for another mixed bag of testimony, but I’m sure he’ll add a few things that are pluses for the prosecution.
BDLR seems to be spoon-feeding the case to the jury. Hopefully there’s a build-up to a powerful closing that includes a clear list of all the inconsistencies of Fogen’s actions and reactions.
@TSTAS
IDK, but I would prefer that things weren’t simply left for the jury to “get it” because I am not so sure they will and as I have said for a long time I think the defence is fixed on the one point that imo will decide the verdict, could GZ have been in fear of his life and if he could have been, and the PA already set the ground for that with her testimony on the possible consequences of any blunt trauma to the head, and the defence will have a medical expert to explain the dangers more in depth and the fact that only hindsight showed they were not serious, then unless the State proves that it is impossible for the bumps to have been caused by Trayvon, or that Trayvon was defending himself if they did come from him, I fear it will be a done deal.
And how to prove BARD those bumps and abrasions were not caused by Trayvon? IDK, but since John’s testimony explaining how he saw the struggling pair move from grass to pavement and pavement to grass without changing position of GZ being underneath and Trayvon on top I am as sure as I can be that they weren’t. Since John’s testimony I am sure GZ got the head bumps and abrasions clinging from underneath on to Trayvon with his grappling techniques learned at the gym so as to prevent Trayvon from “getting away” until the police arrived, and as Trayvon tried to push with his hands against the ground and/or GZ’s body (the hands pushing down John saw) so as to make a lever and impulse himself forward free himself from GZ’s hold and run away, GZ’s head was bumped around on the ground as GZ’s upper body was being raised and lowered (something else John saw) each time Trayvon tried to push himself up up but was being pulled back down by GZ’s weight. The problem… how to prove it?
wHY SHOULD ANY CHILD 17 0R TWO OR 3 OR ANY FRIGGIN AGE HAVE TO SCREAM AN RUN
as in to know there place you friggin beast from the bottom of the BLAHCK LAGOON BEGONE BEGONE
Sorry haven’t read all comments I refuse to let that comment stand.
Sorry Tasha Im BAD.
@Colin. Trayvon did run. The creepy guy followed then pursued him. The only mistake Trayvon made was thinking he had lost the pervert and talked on his phone loud enough for the pervert to locate him.
Well, I just woke up a half an hour ago. I missed the last 30 minutes or so of MOM’s questioning. (3 hour nap) I am now going to read and catch up.
You might want to rethink that lol.
tashatexas77048 says:
July 1, 2013 at 7:27 pm
Ok so I’ll keep “flooding” the threads. I can’t be bullied. When I’m attacked I don’t run and scream as 17 year old kids should do, I stand and fight as grown women should do.
get
@
Begone yon minion of impps begone
A 17 year old chils should never have to RUN AN SCREAM FROM A PERVERTED SICK FUCK LIKE foggagge
Why should 17 CHILDREN SCREAN AND RUN
What plantet should they do that on not on my PLANT EARTH
YOU RACEIST BIGOTED KHUNT.
Wtf are you talking about??? Kids should flee from grown ass bullies NOT ADULTS. You folks around here act like a bunch of bullies but I can’t be bullied. And learn to read and write you illiterate sonofabitch. Who the hell am I racist against? Trayvon Martin? I’M BLACK YOU ASSCLOWN.
I already figured out your black. Like I’m saying, I understand everything you’re for. The truth is, I’m afraid you might be right.That pos MUST be convicted.Hey,by the way, I’m mid 50’s. Damn, I’m gonna start crying.
41. I’m crying with you lol
Again, I am seeing what you’re seeing and I don’t see the sense in pretending this is going better than it is.
Also, I’m a middle aged Jewish guy and that has no bearing at all on my conviction that Zimmerman is guilty of a crime or my opinion that the support for Zimmerman is rooted in pure bigotry and base politics. I don’t care if it’s manslaughter or not, but what he did was completely his fault and he should be held accountable. I’m glad as hell that we here are made up of all races and that just goes to show that there are lots of people who see the case the same way we do.
People should stop attacking the messenger. If they want to be mad at anyone, start with Bernie de la Rionda.
Unabogie- I’ve a better idea. Lets attack GZ, who murdered a child in cold blood. Bernie will get that fat ass of GZs in jail.
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
And that means what now?
Why you use ass an clown as an insult
PROJECTING MUCH?
Anyone whom says a 17 year old child has to run from creepy assed dudes whom rule the roost #thinks creepy assed dude is in the right as
In TRAYVON HAD ENOUGH TIME TO MAKE IT HOME
look at my name im black as well you erudite scamp..
Colin, you called the lady a cunt. That’s seriously uncool even for people you hate. For you to do that to someone who mostly agrees with you is beyond the pale. You should just apologize and move on.
while not excusing mr black’s language, the term is not considered vulgar in his part of the world. i would make some cultural allowances.
Unabogie- but what if she really deserves it, as HER behavior has been abusive, histrionic, repulsive, unfounded, belittling and humiliating to others in this blog? If the shoe fits….
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
@faux
I AM from colin’s neck of the woods and without wanting to enter into this unpleasant foray imo the “c” word is much more than extremely vulger, it is extremely offensive and imo disparaging to women, and Colin should not have said it about one of the posters here however annoyed and even if disguised.
The definition of CUNT is………..
Can’t Understand Normal Thinking……..
MMP has spoken
HOODIES UP
@gbrbsb
i get it — i just know that it is used with more frequency and with somewhat less stigma attached than the word is in the US. in my experience and granted i do not live there, the usage strikes me more along the lines of how we would use ‘bitch’. an epithet to be sure and derogatory towards women. maybe it is just the company i keep and the word ceased to faze me decades ago.
there, there tasha … god don’t like ugly
@Tasha. As a Black woman, wouldn’t you want to be above reproach? Certainly, you don’t want to fall into a stereotype of being ill-informed on matters and angry.
I hate to have to get on your level but you need to calm down with this straight up tomfoolishness! Khunt? Really? I don’t care how long you’ve been here they should ban your slow ass.
HEY cut the slurs, okay?
The guy is dyslexic. Not his fault he can’t spell. What he writes is usually brilliant, if you trouble to look past the spelling and typing errors.
He’s upset you saying 17 year old kids “should do” run and scream when attacked.
He is right. They should NOT..
Tasha you have been over-reacting every day. CALM DOWN, And read what you’ve written before hitting the Submit. And stop upsetting people then blaming them for being upset. COOL IT, okay?
oh I know how to spell C U N ext Tuesday.
OK both parties are getting very hot around the collar now and neither meant real harm — in my opinion. Colin Black is a respected poster and feels strongly about justice for Trayvon; Tasha is a respected poster and feels strongly about justice for Trayvon. Please go to your respective corners and both of you please check out the room and you will see that the rest of us are in that same room with you and there ARE no corners. It’s a ROUND room. Breathe.
I am hoping hoping HOPING that BDLR is running an honest ship and that he does not mean to hand the battle over to Fogen. If he does, however, since we are not in control here, there will be NOTHING we can do to change the direction of that big ship he is navigating. Therefore I believe we can contribute, still, to the success of this project. Each of us can. We need to preserve our nerves, obviously. It won’t be easy.
If I could use my good offices to quiet our spirits a bit right now, I would. Peace to you all.
What she said!
Im sorry I did not read all the posts as I explained I read that
A Child should run and scream and I flipped out
I though you were implying TRAYVON SHOULD HAVE RETURNED HOME AN HE WOULD BE ALIVE
Malisha is right im Sorry Tasha I shouldn’t have jumped yet again to conclusions .
I am just so angry at
The he had time to make it home to avoid getting shot.
An I forget how insukting some people find that word me
I thing a VAGINAS a thing of beuty m o o.
If HLN does not get rid of Frank Taaffe…
I find him to be a great resource for the prosecution.
I find him to be a great resource for irritable bowel disease. But as someone else told me, I guess if Frank wants to talk we should let him talk.
Yep, as he confirmed he is a witness…and can’t keep his mouth shut.
I have been on twitter… Trayvon Martin supporters are saying praising Serino, Singleton and BDLR for a great job. maybe they are seeing something we didn’t. All is not lost yet. I just can’t past as to why BDLR didn’t catch the self defense opinion from Serino when I’m over here hollering OBJECTION… OBJECTION… OBJECTION… like he can hear me right? *sigh* Good night all!
I do not think today was a loss. Jurors heard many lies told by Fogen. Serino imo did not say anything to help Fogen. IIRC right now they are discussing interviews and a walk thru which took place within the first 36 hours. I doubt the Detectives had much evidence back by then so of course he COULD have been telling the truth. We are 6 days into a trial that is 16 months in the making.
I think the negativity is a huge distraction. We need to relax. I believe the State is doing the right thing by putting up all these witnesses whether we like them or not. I think it would look worse if the defense called them because it WILL look like the State tried to hide them. jmo
Keep praying for Justice and let the professionals do their job.
attempted murder by cement, has this happened before?
They believe that? what’s wrong with that state.
Folks have been asking that about Florida for a long time.
Used to happen a lot.. But they’d combine the cement and the victim before the cement had hardened. :D:D:D
@aussie
let us not forget the ever popular cement overshoes!
😉
Will be back later upset over this afternoon,have to really analyze this and get refocused…I refuse to give up on justice for Trayvon.
As you well should. This trial has only just begun.
I agree with you, Girlp. I, also, refuse to give up on Justice for Trayvon, and to me, that means a conviction.
It drives me nuts to see so many opportunities to reinforce the prosecution’s theory of the case (it didn’t happen the way fogen says it did), through different facts, and aspects and perspectives of the investigators who clearly knew what he was saying was a lie, and to see those opportunities slip by.
Ups and downs, I understand. Willfully passing up the opportunity to guide the lead detective deeper into what he said on tape and what he knew from the crime scene, not so much.
I’m not convinced that today was great for the defense although not great for the prosecution either but the State has to expose the defense witnesses and this may be a smart move. The interviews with fogen do not put him in a favorable light, he states some of the most illogical reasons for STALKING, yes I said it CTH STALKING and reporting Trayvon. George attempts to sound like a LE even on his written statement despite anything the detectives said that seem to help the defense the interview are not good for fogen. I’m waiting to see what BLDR does on cross and with the remining evidence in this case. I’m also waiting to see if the defense is going to to anything other than cross. Also, wondering if BLDR is forcing the defense to expose their defense; it has to be more than W6 and fogen is a nice guy.
Reading the comment section in all the blogs on Rachel Jeantel was, hmm, not-so utopian. I look at the GG demographic as progressive, open-minded people who value the fabrics of the American quilt, appreciate urban influence culture and would attend the same music festival. Unfortunately, life is not a concert.
This trial is painful for all of us who strive for a highly tolerant diversified society. It’s not easy because we all move at different speeds and must practice patience while waiting on the same line. I would like to think that if we all have tickets, there might some pushing and shoving but no one wants a stampede.
Like any other peanut gallery, the opinions varied amongst all walks of life but there seemed to be a definite Mason Dixon line drawn in the sand. I can only speak for myself, but accusations of race baiting and bias scribing probably gave a duly noted but perplexing pause to most of the staff. Let’s agree that this is an emotional case with an undeniable racial undercurrent. Somehow we all feel like eyewitnesses as well as victims.
There are those who are fed up from being a born suspect and those who are tired of carrying the so-called White Man’s Burden they inherited. Still there are “others” who feel that everything black & white overshadows the hardships of their American integration. Attempts to arbitrate and give perspective to cultural nuances can be daunting when the logic of the criminal justice system often cancels out the very circumstances that caused the crime. There are enough case studies to discredit the expression that “Lady Justice is blind.” I would argue that the bitch can see quite well and the blindfold is literally sheer decoration.
We must remind each other that a democratic state does not mean that everyone has a democratic state of mind. Fortunately, the construct itself, allows us to fight, for our right, to be heard. Trayvon no longer has a voice, still he represents so many.
Maybe this poll does a disservice to much of what I just spoke on, especially since my main problem with YOU PEOPLE (joke) is that in a situations like this, WE, are all guilty of believing what we WANT the truth to be. This makes us tamper with the evidence of things seen and not seen.
Based on your comments, I’m going to ask a few reflective questions for you to answer before chiming in on the troll, I mean poll question (relax, I talk a little shit but I can back it up, I encourage you to do the same). Regardless of how partial some of the questions may be, I think it will enhance the dialogue in a way that may be somewhat constructive. Have your ticket out and enjoy the show!
-Would you classify Zimmerman as a victimized vigilante or a guardian angel?
-Did Zimmerman have anything on his vehicle or clothes that identified him as community watch?
-Do you think Zimmerman following Trayvon in a truck is more intimidating than a car?
-Does running from someone who doesn’t appear to be law enforcement make Trayvon more suspicious?
-While on the phone with the 911 operator, do you think Zimmerman saying “Fucking punks” and “These assholes, they always get away,” is a pre-judging profile of what a punk and asshole looks like? Are those same comments also a sign of aggression?
-Zimmerman admits to getting out his vehicle and following Trayvon. When the 911 operator said “Ok, we don’t need you to do that,” why did he not do as told?
-Why do you think it took so long for Zimmerman to be arrested?
-Zimmerman claims Trayvon was smothering him, but he also claims that he was the one who was screaming, what do you think?
-If Zimmerman thought Trayvon was a home invader, what lead to that suspicion since Trayvon wasn’t wearing a knapsack or holding any items?
-If Trayvon had such the brutal upper hand on Zimmerman, why couldn’t he stop George from not just brandishing his weapon but also shooting him in the heart?
-Why do you think Zimmerman shot him in the heart and not another body part?
-Do you believe there is a double standard for racial slurs that favor Black people?
-Had Zimmerman been Black and Trayvon been white and the same incident occurred at the same place at the same time, do you think they would have let him go home?
-Do you know who Marissa Alexander is?
Although, I ask you to focus on the poll question, I welcome your reflective cross examination that may sway the jury. To be honest, I still forget I’m on the side of the prosecutor.
Global Grind
Written by T. Better Baldwin is a creative mercenary and ethical lobbyist who was born, raised and resides in New York City.
Poll Question of who started the fight is at the bottom of the page. Please vote… they got Trayvon starting the fight 44%.
http://globalgrind.com/news/who-do-you-think-started-the-fight-george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-t-better-baldwin-poll-blog
What fight?
The fight that the state have allowed the defense to perpetuate by saying the word…you guessed it…FIGHT.
I honestly thought the words “fight” and “T” would not be uttered by the State at the start of this trial. Boy was I wrong.
@tasha — did you even read the charging information?
Can Tasha read critically and with comprehension? I bet those 40 college hours were in basket weaving.
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
lol
-Why do you think Zimmerman shot him in the heart and not another body part?
Fogen either lusted for the kill or he’s a feckless jerk playing a role who didn’t quite get the seriousness of packing a pistola until he’d actually used it. He may live in a fantasy world.
two sides says
undoubtedly – there is a reason the name ‘walter mitty’ arises with amazing frequency around here.
#trayvonmartin RT @drgoddess: Don’t forget the Sanford Police Department is presently under Department of Justice investigation (i.e. Eric Holder). #ZimmermanTrial #J4TM RT RT RT RT!!!!!
Jeffrey Evan Gold @jeffgoldesq 8h
17 yr old is dead and cops are treating killer #Zimmerman as if he was just mugged. #TrayvonMartin deserved better no matter what happened
LLMP, I wish that you were the investigator or D.A. in this case.
Granny<——going to her corner and hush, until trial is over.
I’m joining you. My husband told me about this. He’s very apolitical and pretty much minds his own business which is okay with me.
I was the same way during the Casey Anthony trial. I had almost the same reaction of Angry Grandpa. SMH. You know what is similar? With her and Fogen they both have enabling parents who have gotten them out of messes. Casey actually had her lawyer accuse her father of rape/incest AND murder and he is taking care of her now. Fogen has been in trouble and his father got him out of it. Now he has killed someone’s child and people are treating it like a game show-HLN.
Thank you for pointing that out. It’s true, and I had not made the connection before.
Run from HLN After Dark. They do treat this case like a game show and if you constantly watch those things, they will keep you in a constant state of upset just from the shear stupidity.
It’s funny, when I came from overseas last year, I thought that the state had a strong case. Why? Because I didn’t have access to U.S. media. The little I heard were the bare bones facts.
When I came back to the U.S. that is when I started having doubt. Media elsewhere is a bit different.
Does it really come as a surprise to anyone the 2 primary investigators for SPD don’t begin to grasp the impossibility of Zimmerman’s space/time continuum?
LOL! Does anyone? 😉
hell NAW it’s the reason people had to rise up ..the good ole boyzzzz
“Call your next witness.”
“The States calls Professor Stephen Hawking!”
The defense would insist on Frye hearings for Hawking to prove he is an expert…
I’m wondering if any of the white women know how flaky cops can be . . . I bet the Hispanic one does.
I wish they could play one of your videos on the timeline.
Maybe todays events will enlighten the jurors as to why the protest took place if nothing else..Maybe they now realize the importance of why the family felt justice was not being served in the best interest of the victim and the communities involvement to support the Martins.
It’s mind boggling to me how many people are clueless about how damning the evidence is against the killer.
I think people just…flash assume…a story that makes sense to them:
A guy lives in a vulnerable (not “dangerous”) neighborhood, sees a suspicious (blahk) punk, calls NEN, the punk attacks him from the bushes/sidewalk by the T, slams guy’s head, almost kills him, then the guy fires his weapon, and he’s not sure if the punk is dead because now they are magically 30 feet from T.
Some people just can’t accept the possibility that this was a wannabe cop who wanted to kill someone… because he knew how to get away with it.
Like Malisha wrote up thread, Fogen was “protected.”
He studied criminal justice. He trained as an MMA fighter nine hours a week. His buddies were cops & Air Marshals. He had a CCW. He was NW captain.
He had all the justifications. He was itching to pull a trigger. He had trained for it.
What’s the point in being powerful if you can’t exercise your power?
What’s the point in having hollow point bullets if you never get to shoot them?
I believe this to be true, Romaine.
Don’t know what happen to post. Anyway, all is not lost. BDLR, knew Serino and SPD was corrupt, that’s one of the reason why the Gov, appointed BDLR. Also Austin and Mary’s said Serino told them it was GZ screaming. I believe BDLR knows Sernio and Goode are double agents on their witness list. Maybe when the States investigating team come on things will start to speed up and more points will be made
I hope so.
Yes, I was wondering if that testimony would come into play….how Serino told a witness the killer wasn’t being arrested because it was a “racial” thing.
BLDR is taking any wind out of the defense sails now….face the negative stuff now….annihilate it later with forensics….then what does the defense have?
Serino also said he did not want to the teacher to point out where the murder took place…BDLR knew what Serino was on…I’m betting Serino better come correct tomorrow or Bernie is going to open sum whup ass on him ..once he got Bozo … BDLR knew not to be shocked by anything coming out of his mouth
Burn Sanford burn I smell riot coming on………Remake of KRS1 song
I had to tell someone on twitter to stop posting that stuff. Do you REALLY need to post that? I was relieved when they deleted it but you can’t delete that. You know racists like Michelle Malkin scan sites like this LOOKING for the needle in the haystack post like yours. SMH
I apologize and hopes Prof deletes . I don’t want any riots
I don’t want it to be but I see a lot of disgusted people. I am in no way advocating it.
It was Public Enemy and there isn’t going to be a riot
If the town is mostly white, I don’t see the AAs there taking a chance on screwing up their lives. Rioting is an idiotic thing to do. After the verdict in the Rodney King brutality case, my heart broke as I watched Reginal Denny been pulled out of his truck. I was at home in Inglewood about 5 miles away. Thank God for the guys who pretended they were attacking him and proceeded to take him to Daniel Freeman Hospital. Rioting is not good for anybody.
I agree. This generation we have now, I call them the lost generation. So my prayers are in God’s hand. Although he may escape man’s justice but not God’s.
Below is from a recent press release from Corey’s office. He’s not getting this award for losing cases or because he fails to deliver.
The Association of Government Attorneys in Capital Litigation has awarded Senior Managing Director Bernie de la Rionda with the AGACL Trial Award for his Outstanding Advocacy in Capital Cases.
Mr. de la Rionda will be presented with the AGACL award on July 24, 2013, in Washington D.C. during the “Best of the Best” presentation at the 34th Annual AGACL Summer Conference.
“We are thrilled that Bernie has been recognized with this prestigious award. Bernie’s reputation as a tenacious prosecutor is legendary. He approaches every case with firm resolve and hard work and achieves great success as a result. He is totally devoted to seeking justice for victims,” said State Attorney Angela Corey.
Something is really off – unless he does surprise endings or something.
Which actually could be the case.
He could send Corey up to get it. Or he could fly up, collect the award, be back for afternoon session. JN could schedule something other than the trial that day. Any number of things could happen. This event date likely was planned long ago, possibly before Trayvon was murdered.
BDLR reward or fogen could be waiting for sentencing.
Bring on the false narratives now…make everyone impossible with forensics…
I meant every one of them impossible with forensics later….(closer to closing)
I really think this “laid back” approach is deliberate.
I tend to agree that he is getting all the “false narratives” out and will then make every one of them impossible….and then conclude with what that leaves them with…
GZ shot Trayvon because he WANTED TO. I think Guy said that in opening statements because they will show evidence that will absolutely eliminate justifiable homicide.
The power of our thoughts and words have been the center of philosophical teachings for thousands of years. If you study the Bible, in Genesis, God spoke creation into being. God said things like, “Let there be light” and there was light. Later on in the Bible, the first book of John starts off with, “In the beginning there was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God”. Again, this focused on the power of our words.
Even if you look at the word “universe”, the etymology of the word is “uni” = one and “verse” = statement.
In modern times, people talk about the book “The Secret” which is nothing more than a compilation of how great men and women used the power of their thoughts and words to create their reality.
The reason I went though this long-winded explanation is because I believe that words and thoughts do have power. I had to be harshly reminded of that last week. No matter the intention of those behind that reminder, I knew it was in divine order, because that is what I believe.
Throughout history, many of our philosophers speak about our thoughts and our words. Decartes said, “I think therefore I am”. Again speaking to the divinity of our thoughts.
So yes, I am disappointed about what happened today. Yes, I desperately want justice for Trayvon Martin and his family.
So I am left with this philosophical question, if I think or speak a thing into existence does it really matter what happens before the manifestation occurs? In other words, if my thoughts and words are solely focused on getting Justice for Trayvon and his family, does it really matter what happens before the manifestation of my thoughts and words occur?
So perhaps instead of focusing so much on the journey, we should focus on the destination. Speak into existence the destination that we want. Does it really matter if we get there by plane, train or automobile, it only matters that we get there right?
What if each and everyone of us, took 60 seconds morning and night to put in the universe that Trayvon Martin get justice? What would happen then? Keep in mind, that this justice may not happen the way we won’t it. Instead of being attached to outcomes, what if we are just focused on the action?
Just my cents! And sorry for all of the spirituality, philosophy stuff. I do not mean to offend. I am just that kind of chic. Sophia Moonbean at your service! LOL!
I don’t want to bring up politics again but you sound like the PUMA blogs I used to post on during the election last year. Positive thinking is not going to get the 6 jurors to see what we know to be true. Positive thinking and warm fuzzies didn’t get the GOP an election win. I came to this blog late and don’t want to ruin the vibe. I will lurk.
Me and the PUMA’s did not get along in 2008. But didn’t they support Obama in 2012? And didn’t he win? So could there have been something to the positive thinking?
No need to apologize. And thank you! I am tired of the naysaying and second guessing. We waited over a year for this trial. Why think negatively?
Michelle:
Thank you!
I agree. But I also, as I have said before, understand the perspective of those thinking this way. I don’t think name calling is the way to address it because it just adding more negativity. But to each his or her own.
I think there is a natural negative reaction to hearing something idiotic happen like Serino up there saying he believed Fogen. One can’t help but think, “WTF is going on here; the rug is being pulled out from under us; everything is sliding into the ocean!”
Yet when I was an activist trying to help mothers who were losing their children in unfair court proceedings, I used to tell them:
“If you think there are 100 different things that could happen in court tomorrow, and if your lawyer tells you there are 100 other things that can happen in court tomorrow, and that adds up to 200 different things that could possibly happen in court tomorrow, thing 201 is going to actually happen. And there is not a damn thing you can do to prepare for Thing #201. So keep your knees flexed and press your shoulders down and wiggle your toes inside your shoes because you’re going to have to survive something you cannot even imagine, today.”
And that’s what we’re all going through. Our “brainchild” is the conviction and the JUST conviction of Fogen for the murder of Trayvon Martin. We have to endure the ride and respond to the world and we will have to KEEP doing that over and over and more and more.
That’s the bad news.
The good news is that — YES, we CAN.
Malisha- yes we can! And yes we must!
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
@malisha who says
((((((APPLAUSE))))))
thanks for keeping it real
@Sophia –
FIAT LUX!
Fiat is my favorite word.
Let there be light.
@Sphia –
FIAT LUX! is UCLA’s motto. I love it.
I think you’re exactly right.
We’re on a roller coaster now and need to concentrate on the destination, knowing the journey will have both challenges and pleasantries.
Ditto n I do an not just for Trayvon but for all whom need protection juctice help health or just a meal in there stomach
Or the will to live another day.
Many crie out for help.
An yet you only need two ears to hear an one tounge an thought to reply.
Your post is a thing of beuty.
@Sophia33. I’m not only with you on the positive thoughts, but also because I know they work. A little light reveals as through a glass darkly, but lots of light rids the darkness. When people speak negatively, it’s like wanting darkness to overcome light, or to get rid of the light. Night is the time that many creatures on earth sleep, but is the time for predators to come out seeking what they can devour. I prefer being a creature of the DAY.
Sophia, this could not have been more beautifully stated! Thank you so much!
I hope Bernie does come out swinging tomorrow on redirect. However, I am holding out for a home run when the forensics are presented, I presume through O’Steen. The bullet trajectory, the flash light, the bag of candy. the club house video etc. these are things Omara cannot spin a false narrative about. I hope everyone will remain patient.
Valerie I will be in the courtroom tomorrow to watch everyone
YAY!!!! We need updates for sure on jury reactions.
Good !! Yes,we do need jury reaction.
Please report back. I am curious about the reactions of folks.
Wow – enjoy.
Patricia, I left you a couple messages on the last thread. I am near Sanford for the week. Where do I park and where do I go to sign up to attend. Also, I would love to sit down and chat.
court registars office according to B SYHSTER
But you go into a lottery for next day.
I am not sure where to park and where to go, Colin. Just drove around the building and got lost. I will try again tomorrow. I will be here until Friday.
Yes, I notice several facts that have been introduced and need to be incorporated into the state’s narrative. One is the MMA training. Also now is Zim’s claim that he spread Trayvon’s hands away from his body.
I am hoping that now that these thingss are in the record others will be able to highlight their significance.
For anyone interested, here is a link to a good site “Axiom Amnesia” that has videos of Zimmerman Trial Witnesses sorted and segmented by date and name.
http://axiomamnesia.com/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-trial-updates/
GZ gives HOA management name, contact name HOA President’s name & phone number. This is his first interview 5 hrs. after a brutal fight and killing.
BDLR got all interviews played and even repeated the 911 with screaming 2-3 times. I’ve heard it but it was very dramatic and made me cry. Had to impacted jury.
GZ says BS on first interview before he knew NEN was recorded.Heard is him saying I told NEN I would meet policeman at my truck. When played, jury got to hear ” on second thought just have them call me and I’ll tell them where I am.
Said EMS told him his nose was broken but EMS never said that and testified they put peroxide on for ” life threatening injuries”.
He says he knows everyone in HOA but at interview says he “didn’t recognize who said they were calling 911 ( John Good). Jury got to hear him say he ” got on Suspect spread his arms out” and told John Good NOT to call police as he had already done that. In fact, he had only called NEN.
Jury also heard him testify he fell to ground on 1st punch onto concrete. John G. Statement said fight started on grass..
Jury heard him tell Serino ” someone came and they had a flashlight TOO( my emphasis). He had just told Serino he had one but it wasn’t working .
Moving to 2/29 interview, he says he has bad memory, sometimes doesn’t even know his own address BUT on 2/26 he tells Singletary his address is 1950 RVC. This, shows consciousness of guilt.
I hate MOM being able to wave Wagner’s photoshopped pix and Serino could not have seen that as no one saw it until things heated up. So Serino lied about that.
Finally, GZ says” TM didn’t circle his entire car and couldn’t tell him he was NW because he wasn’t close enough. This contradicts his non existent enhancement to make victim more menacing.
Serino & Singletary are covering their coverup but GZ own statements are out.
Peroxide has magic powers! (snort) Did you catch the part where GZ said his bruises disappeared because Shellie “worked on them”?
Does Shellie have a magic wand …bruises at the very least take a week or more depending on how deep the bruise is, takes time for the body to reabsorb the blood.
tampons cover all sins you could have an axe in your head an one of shellies tampons would cover it.
LOL! those maxi pads with wings to cover little cat scratches…my first thought was is he serious.
LMAO –
I missed that part.
sums up the day nicely
They both have a lot of years in Sanford. That means they have probably seen a number of clean-up efforts and regime changes. They have been through a couple since this happened and have mysteriously moved down the ladder.
They just may not be feeling the urge to stick their necks out.
The most significant part of today was that those interview tapes were heard. No matter who believes what, You cannot not believe your own ears. Those significant moments where fogen suddenly gains amnesia are very telling. And I believe I heard mention of the Hannity video today. Defense can say all they like that the stories was mainly consistent, but it wasn’t.
I just hope the jury is able to see the major inconsistencies with fogen’ story and they are major. Three witnesses saw him stand straight up, after the shot. Two saw him walk around, One saw him near the T. This is the one that he reportedly request help restraining “this guy” He testify that the conversation or the rendition that fogen is telling is not true.
Why this was not yet, pointed out in a similar fashion that West is throwing his John out there, is beyond me. The defense seems to be telling a story as they go along. The state seems to be putting the facts out there and will put it all together at the end. The problem with that is that many small but significant pieces can get lost along the way and not touched upon in closing.
Not that this will happen but, it would not be the way I would approach the case. It just seems like common sense to me to tie the testimony in along the way. But then, I’m no lawyer. Maybe there is a reason they are doing it this way.
Well said! I think by the defense inserting John Good testimony is not good for them but good for the prosecution. Of all the witnesses that has been presented thus far, John’s testimony sticks out the most for me (not in a good way). He testified he saw the altercation and was only outside for 10-15 seconds. He stated he did not see the faces of anyone( particularly the guy on top) but when he ran into the house to dial 911 he knew the person that was shot was black from the beginning of the call. Also, if he was the first one outside and called after the shot, how did he not hear 45 seconds of screams to only claim he was there 10-15 secs? And why would his adrenaline be high to have not heard the screams? He knows more about what happen
But will prosecution be able to pull this one out because they have not been stressing their case and rebutting certain questions and testimony. Perhaps this whole case was just a dog and pony show to quell the “angry mob”. Just put together some ol hap hazzard case. Perhaps the purpose was not to win but to just give Sabrina Fulton what she wanted, just to get this murder on trail and that was it. Because I frankly am not understanding how the prosecution is missing so many good opportunities. Even opportunities many of you have laid out and pot shots he should have taken. Where is the prosecution defense? Their offense is not really in play either. They keep fumbling the ball.
… just to get this murderer on trial…
Question for all pointing out that BDLR still has Gilbreath, O’Steen, etc to speak of the inconsistencies in the case.
Serino and Singleton were the only LE who interrogated fogen. The FDLE did not. Any conclusions FDLE have as to inconsistencies are second hand to the LE, who were there in the moment, during the interrogations, and who have, respectivley, stated they were *not concerned over minor inconsistencies*, *didn’t see any material changes* and that fogen told the “truth”.
Whose testimony gets the most “weight” if you’re on the fence about the importance of these “minor inconsistencies”, the secondhand opinion of the FDLE, who came in weeks after the fact, or the detectives who were there in the moment, saw the actual crime scene as it was laid out and did the actual interrogations?
FDLE’s testimony should be independent CORROBORATION of a “first hand” account of the inconsistencies as told by Serino and Singleton. They should not have to stand, not only on their own but in opposition to, the LE who were there at the time.
THIS is why I’m upset.
Not to mention the lapses by BDLR to not bring up the “major” inconsistencies in Fogen’s story, that he cannot specifically address in redirect, unless they were addressed by O’Mara on cross. BDLR does not get a do-over. Anything he didn’t ask on direct, he can’t just throw into the redirect. His limitations are specific. So the fact that Serino isn’t “finished” does not help BDLR go back and ask what he didn’t.
Wow. Now I feel extra sick.
Emails stating Serino wanted to charge should do it.
If he was not lying about self defense, why charge?
O’Mara opened the door for it by asking Serino his opinion on the truthfulness of GZ.
yup…BLDR will lower the boom soon enough.
Yes … meanwhile, no point in glitching up the crescendo!
He said he was pressured by 3 SPD officers to press charges I think 2 were AA 1 Latino married to an AA…Sort of hersey on my part but it was in the press that he was pressured I’m just not sure who the officers were. I thought maybe this was exggarated as things often are in the media but maybe it’s true maybe he did believe Zimmerman.
Yup he said that under a bridge as it echoed echoed echoed 3x like the fatal gunshot.
Frightened the crap out of the trll lurking under that bridge.
True
I would give more weight to an investigator who had a chance to go over the recorded statements and transcripts, and to weigh them carefully against all physical evidence than to the impressions of the interviewers at the time of the interviews.
It’s not second-hand. All parties are dealing with statements GZ made on the record.
Whonoze – Do you believe Serino didn’t know the difference in the place fogen said he had the altercation and the place where it actually happened, at the time of the interview? If you’re on the jury, hearing this for the first time, and don’t know the background like we do – do you make that distinction?
Whonoze- yes indeed! First impressions are often wrong. An investigator trained in this stuff with the leisure to connect the dots is the very best resource to have.
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
This is why these cases take weeks and not days. That Fogen was only arrested in 44 days is not unusual, and especially true in this case because of the lack of hard evidence and witnesses. You have to study Fogen’s interviews closely to catch all the bloopers. His mild manner is mesmerizing.
Two sides, mild mannered or prissy? Sorry, that was mean, but when I saw him standing there with the umbrella when it was not raining, on the walk through video today, I about died laughing. Was he afraid to mess up his hair? Did he realize he did not have any hair?
@TSTAS
I can agree 44 days was not unusual. Cordell Jude, the shooter of the developmentally challenged adult Daniel Adkins who also claimed self defence, wasn’t arrested and charged with M2, for four months and the case of it not being self defence was imo
much much clearer than this. Serino indicated yesterday he felt pressured into doing things when he wasn’t ready and wanted more time. Could it be that had they left GZ longer, with Serino interviewing him over a longer time and gathering more information GZ would have opened up bigger inconsistencies because from yesterday’s questionings of Singleton and Serino it appears GZ’s inconsistencies were to be expected and not important enough for them to charge? IDK, and just saying.
@gbrbsb. Remember the capias that Serino prepared? He found that GZ’s following Trayvon, GZ’s minor injuries, and GZ’s failure to introduce himself to Trayvon, is what led to the altercation justifying a charge of manslaughter.
Corey’s office began at the beginning with GZ’s NEN call where he referred to Trayvon in the plural in conjunction with using disparaging name-calling.
Serino may have been an investigator, but he’s not a lawyer. As a lawyer and representing the State of Florida, Corey understands self-defense law. It doesn’t start when the persons meet but rather, when the person who ended up killing the other could have made a decision other than making themselves physically available for the altercation.
O’Mara is making the mistake of focusing on the middle and the end, rather than the beginning. If jury receives the same instructions as the Dooley jury, GZ will be found guilty of second degree murder.
Absolutely agree, Whonoze!
Look at all the evidence the SPD investigators didn’t have at the time:
statements from the witnesses at the scene
Trayvon and Rachel’s phone records and her statement
Z’s phone records
Z’s public statements/interviews
the trajectory of the bullet
DNA
the footage from the club house/pool hall cameras
Not to minimize their contribution which was very useful, but there is no question that Serino and Singleton were just beginning to scratch the surface of what went down that night. They were NOT in a better position than the FDLE would be later on.
I said it before, it’s almost as if he believes the jurors have already heard everything put out in the media and his job is just to present a side they had not heard and let them sort it out for themselves. Otherwise, I have no idea why they call witness after witness and fail to tie them together or find some way to make it clear why they are on the stand. I have never seen this style before, ever. I know why he called the HOA lady after Rachel left the stand and it was for someone else to corroborate the “wet grass” statement. However, he failed to ask her what she meant and to elaborate so the reason for her presence was lost. He called John Manalo after O’Mara lied and said Zimmerman stubbled towards the T, hurt and holding his head. Well Manalo testified that Zimmerman was simply on the phone, nice enough. But then BDLR effs up his reason for calling that witness by stating more than once that Zimmerman had been in a fight and had gotten his butt beat. Wtf???
I guess I’m saying I’m seriously questioning whether or not the State cant get a conviction with BDLR at the helm. I don’t know how else to put it.
tashatexas77048, While not totally satisfied with the line of questioning today, I have to realize that the audio tapes and the video’s presented into evidence today by BDLR will weigh much more on the jury than anything the officers said in response to MOM’s questions. I don’t think that you understand that these witnesses were actually one’s that the defense was going to call, and if MOM actually puts on a defense, then they will be called again by MOM and BDLR then can do to them what MOM has been doing! I might suggest you step back for a moment and take a deep breath and try to stay cool and calm. No matter how mad, or angry or frustrated we get, we still can not change how the case is presented by the state or the defense.
I understand clearly that the State are calling the Defenses witnesses. What I don’t understand is why they call them and let them off so easily. For instance, Folgate was clearly partial to Fogen. But why didn’t BDLR ask her a few simple questions that could have totally neutralized ole horse-toothed MOM: Why didn’t you order an xray of Fogen’s skull? If you believed he had sustained serious head injuries would you have ordered the xray? What in your examination of him led you to believe he did not need an xray? When he left your office that day was he diagnosed with a broken nose? Was he diagnosed with a skull fracture? Was he diagnosed with any life threatening diagnosis whatsoever? Would you have taken his symptoms more seriously if he hadn’t told you he came to your office simply for a return to work note? (That might have been objected to but at least it would have been out there lol)
BDLR’s manner of questioning is lacking and so are his questions. However, I think he is good at painting the picture he wants the jurors to see.
Why look like an ogre to the jury when you have the words of the Fogdoit on video tape where he tells the detectives that the Dr. told him to use Ice and they would check it when the swelling went down to see if it was broken, and the Dr. told him the massive damage to the back of his head needed to be watched real close! If you look at it in that way you will realize that BDLR did not need to impeach the PA the defendant did that quite well with no help needed! I know that so many of us have so much invested in this trial emotionally that it is some times hard to sit back and be patient as it proceeds. You will do as you wish, however I really do hope you can channel some positive thoughts toward the outcome of this trial. Have a good night, try to get some rest, and remember you are not alone, there are many of us here together seeking justice and it will come in time…..
tasha — this is by far one of the most ignorant posts i have read — you clearly do not understand much of the trial process at all. folgate was a states witness, delivered critical evidence that could be entered no other way and was in no way biased toward the defendant. a crafty defense lawyer got her to say a few things about the defendant’s possible booboos. her ultimate testimony is that injuries were minor and defendant was engaged in a serious MMA program. this evidence was the closest to ‘bombshell’ as we are likely to see and it was dropped at closing bell on friday by a very skilled prosecutor. guess what the jurors had to think about all weekend.
FauxMcCoy you’re ignorant period. I know EXACTLY the reason he called Folgate. I know BDLR was setting the jurors up to see Zimmerman’s lies. THAT DOES NOT EXPLAIN WHY HE CAN’T ALSO TAKE AWAY OMARA’S POSSIBLE ANGLES BEFORE HE EVEN GETS HIS UGLY ASS UP OUT OF HIS SEAT!! Why not just beat them why they’re down? But time after time he fails to make it more difficult for Omara to get up and spin shit. If the jury already knows why she didn’t order xrays THEN THE GOT DAMN HEAD TO CEMENT CHARADE is more ineffective. Dammit stop acting like you’re so damned smart and stfu sometimes.
The LE interrogated yes, but everything was recorded. The FDLE did not lose anything by not interrogating GZ. They have all the forensics, the body, and the STATEMENTS.
The LE only had the statements as no other reports were ready.
The FDLE has the advantage here and clearly think GZ is a lying sack of …..and just killed this kid.
Very well said. Singleton was openly calling into question GZs “still at thebclubhous e now ” BS in the “mild challenge interview” yet was not asked about that or questioned on what the map means.
WTF Bernie?
BDLR can revisit on redirect anything O’Mara visited on cross. So he can revisit “pathological liar” and “inconsistencies” and Serino’s opinion — which is really immaterial and irrelevant — and he can replay parts of the interviews so long as they relate to “inconsistencies” and “veracity.”
Remember the objections in the Perry Mason episodes: “Objection Your Honor: Irrelevant, Immaterial and Incompe-tent.” Or was it “Irrelevant, Incompetent and Immaterial”? I used to taunt my brother, when he criticized me, by saying: “Irrelevant-incompetent-and-immat-ERial” as if it meant something to me, which it did not.”
Agreed. But do you think that he’ll press Serino on what he was on those inconsistencies? Does he bring up the capias request that seemingly refutes his assertion that, at that point, he thought fogen was telling the truth?
I’ve read your beliefs about the “agreement”. I’m beginning to give them even more credence than I already did. I don’t think BDLR will go there, and you have already posted why. I believe he will come up with the FDLE investigators and the physical and forensic evidence. I’m hoping that is enough to mitigate what I felt was a huge mistake on the prosecution’s part, of not laying a stronger foundation, for FDLE to reinforce for the jury.
This ain’t Perry Mason. Bernie already got burned at least once for re-direct questions that were beyond the scope of the defense’s cross. There’s no reason to intentionally leave ANYTHING for re-direct.
I am somewhat tired of the confusion concerning self-defense.
There is two level to claim if depending if you are the initial aggressor or not. Obviously, the level if you are the initial aggressor is higher (actually much higher)
I don’t like the game right now. BDLR seems to rest to much on his closing argument.
I did not watch closely, but in the brief things I saw in the Arias trial, there were many days that people feared she would get off because of the abuse stories and expert opinions. There were days that people actually thought she would “get away with it”.
The jury ended up coming back strongly feeling it was overly cruel. The foreman of the jury even said he felt like she was abused, maybe even from Travis, but the killing was no justification for it.
These are women and 5 are moms.
I wrote a dissertation on how women think and manage at work (loosely). Women (I will clarify with overall, not every single one) strive to look at all sides of a situation and “find the holes” or the “gotchas”. Meanwhile many men look at the overall good and bad and weigh decisions that way.
Add in the fact we have 5 moms. Moms have a hard time coming face to face with parents who have lost their kids. To Serino or SIngleton, this is a “case” that they get paid to work. To a mom, this is a youth that died with grieving parents that sit together and cry together everyday in court. Trayvon was well loved. THAT is obvious.
My point is, the moms will be the last one to WANT to let this child killer go. They will be searching the inconsistencies and the avenues that would give a clear picture of what actually happened. If they can get a clear picture of events and probabilities, they will convict.
If they cannot see what really happened and only have GZ’s story to hang on to, they will give him a not guilty.
I think, looking overall, the evidence has clearly shown that what GZ said happened is suspect. The injuries are minor. The defendant has a history of calls. The language he used was strong for a teen he had “never seen before”.
Trust me, they are having their doubts. I do not know anyone who can ferret out a lie or inconsistency better than a mom. When I was a kid, I thought mine had a supernatural power to read minds….
Remember ballistics, ME, and forensic results are really dang powerful.
The FDLE is the one who recommended charges.
The SPD will look like the Keystone cops next to them (I hope).
I thought Arias was gonna get away with it myself and I thought Juan would not win them over and I was completely wrong
I felt she was guilty but did not know what the jury would do and thought she may get away with it to be honest
As a father a resent that because the jury is 5 women that they will some how see it from a mother’s protective-of-children view. Is this to suggest fathers are less protective of their children? Or less understanding or empathetic? Come on. Talk about preconceived prejudices. Remember, this was a 17 year old Black kid and 5 of the 6 jurors are Florida white women. I don’t think they apply the same empathy and sympathy to a black kid as they would be able to do with a white kid. I’ll use my mother as an example. I asked her how she’d feel if the situation had been one of my sons instead of Trayvon. She immediately started saying things like, “Well, your sons wouldn’t do this or say that or show the disrespect that Trayvon did.” My kids, like me and their grandma, are white.
Do what now
Show disrespect TRAYVON DID????????
Why are you mentioning the colour of your skin?
So what if your white
You want a crackerjack pen or a MEDAL?
you aren’t following where mojo was coming from…he is showing how racially biased his mother is and to do that he says that they are White! He doesn’t agree with that he’s using the example to TEACH what these Florida white mothers might be like…read his benign point…his resentment was male ie feeling his gender was maligned, not racial resentment
@Colin
@Mojo
Colin, my man, cool it.
Mojo is simply showing how an older-generation white woman (likely infused with some degree of racial preference in her early years) looked at this case, and having seen the propaganda that O’Mara and others spread about Trayvon being “disrespectful” decided Trayvon was not like HER grandkids.
What Mojo is saying is that there could be plenty of good Dads on that jury who would care about Trayvon as a kid.
Mojo’s calling us on our prejudice FOR women as jurors.
I’ve seen GREAT Dads on this site and yes, they would be EXCELLENT jurors and Mojo is an example.
When we discuss women jurors, Mojo, we’re simply looking at the stats. Not the individuals.
Thanks for speaking up for Dads.
Want to keep that in mind, always.
Love you, Mojo – and love you, too Colin. Just don’t get your sporran in a froth over this. White guys can speak up, too.
P-Mom~ “Dont’ get your sporran all in a froth”?? DANG that’s a sight to see!
________________________________
Settle down Colin. You’ve misread my comment. I don’t appreciate the attack. I’ve read hundreds of your posts and have yet to criticize you. Please don’t open that door with more insults.
mojo — you must have missed the numerous comments from our host that a fair and impartial jury of mothers was the best possible outcome. yes, we hoped for greater diversity on other fronts.
this is by no means sexist or denying the roles of the wonderful fathers in our midst — but in fred’s learned opinion, this is a good outcome. i suggest you read through archives on his jury selection articles.
Show disrespect.
So. Trayvon was supposed to respect a creepy guy who chased him in a car and on foot and refused to answer a valid question from a scared kid asking, “Why are you following me?”
SMDH.
Trayvon showed the utmost respect by asking “Why are you following me for?” GZ responded by reaching in his pocket.
“I don’t have a problem, but I’m calling 911.” So, GZ calls NEN when he has a problem, but calls 911 when he doesn’t have a problem.
Valid concerns, Mojo. This is Seminole County, Florida, after all. I’m not convinced that mothers there are any less prejudiced than any one else there. I think the locals do not like this prosecution and trial conducted by “outsiders” for the benefit of another “outsider.”
Orlando ain’t that far away. Some might think Orlando would be more sophisticated and enlightened. But we’ve already seen what West’s own daughters are made of.
Men have – and love – children, too. But either gender is equally capable of dis’ing people who are not like them. And men might actually better intuitively perceive how bizarre GZ’s story about the so-called “fight” really is.
Just sayin’…. (I love moms as much as the rest of you!)
But, mojo, did your mother have facts when she answered you that? I doubt it
Good post, KA.
A number of you missed my points completely. First. It’s implied that because a parent is female that she is a better, more caring, and more nurturing parent. And I call BS on that. I’m a proud father that doesn’t buy into that biased claim. I think it shows a prejudice by those that make such a claim… just a s much prejudice as someone making a generalized claim of race. Men are always the brunt of jokes in sitcoms. The kids and moms are always smarter than dad. Dad’s the buffoon. It’s a funny stereotype that too many buy into. Anyway… I once read that if you want to know who children consider their primary caregiver it’s the name they call out in the middle of the night when they wake up frightened. Well, for my kids, it was always, “Daddy.” I made sure they were bathed and teeth brushed before I put them to bed. I was the one that got them dressed and ready for school in the morning. I was the one that picked them after school and took them to all their practices, sporting events, and extracurricular activities. Not all mothers are empathetic nurturers and there are countless men who take on both parental roles in a lot of families.
Second point. My mother is a beautiful soul with a kind and generous heart. She’s also an elderly white woman raised in 1930’s-40’s Texas. There is a lot of ingrained, socialized racism in her. She recognizes it, but still can’t always get around it. She’s been watching this trial since the jury selection. I’m sure I’ve influenced her with my pro-Trayvon stance, but she still has those preconceived notions about black males (or blacks in general), i.e.; he white grandsons would never show disrespect… something she perceives, based on what’s been present thus far, Trayvon was.
After today the jurors have to know Trayvon hands was not spread apart like fogan said. They have to know he is a liar from what he said right there.
I only got to see bits and pieces but aren’t MOM and Bernies questions based mainly on the interviews before the walk through also, this was before the forensics were available and when did Serino know that Trayvon was on the phone…I am worried that Serino said under oath that he believed Porky but did that change at any point?
I dont get the point of hearsay and rules of evidence and motions in limine, yet there was no point to any of it when Serino testified as to what was supposed to be limined
And why the hell did Serino draft up Murder 2 charges a few times?
When Serino was trying to get M-2 charges, he was like a kid asking for a new video game that he knew was too expensive. He tried to give a reason that would not be objectionable to a parent. Rather than saying FOGEN LIED he said that fogen could have “diffused” the situation by telling Trayvon that he was with NW, but failed to. see, making it less BAD than it really was. Still he couldn’t get that coveted game. Tried twice, and then asked for a less expensive one, and couldn’t even get THAT. It was as if his boss told him:
“Man you could pray for SHIT and you wouldn’t get a SMELL.”
Serino knew, then, and Singleton would find out from him in about three seconds, that Fogen was PROTECTED.
In the Soviet Union, they used to say that someone had “PROTEKZION,” and that meant that no matter what they did, it was OK. We have the same system here and we don’t call it “protekzion” or even “protection.” We prattle about due process and all like that. But that is what it was, and that’s what made Singleton and Serino who they are.
Shame? There’s plenty of it to go around.
That’s pure speculation but not outside the range of possibilities.
Many things are possible. What GZ says happened is not possible. And now the jury heard some of that today finally.
I wish you guys will stop calling us chicken little. If you notice Prof. did mention a bad point about today, yes he said it can be rehabbed.
Shari, I understand how you feel 100%. There is nothing wrong with expressing your concerns. I always feel better to get my emotions out, and you are creating conversation and keeping it going. That is why we are all here. I have been lurking here for more than a year! I never posted because someone always said exactly what I was thinking. If we all discuss how we are feeling, hopefully we will feel better just having each other to talk to.
The lack of objection by BDLR is clearly strategic. He’s got a game plan and he is sticking to it. I think he doesn’t want to draw too much attention to the BS that MoM/Don create. He may be planning to call back key witnesses at the end for one key question in quick succession, boom-boom-boom, so the answers will be the last thing the jury hears. Not the toxic soup cooked up by the defense.
Ive heard he done the shymie shymie sqwirm beating to death by crazed 70s talking Blahck CHILD…version for months an never been able to believe it.
Why on earth would a JURY BELEIVE FROM A PROVEN LIAR.
He tells the truth its murder
So he lied from the get go
An the S P D Allowed him to walk as a lazy State Attorney didn’t want to go to a grand jury because he knew the evidence showed malice.
aN HE DIDNT WANT TO PROSECUTE SO HE TOLD sERRINO TO STUFF HIS SECOND DEGREE AN MAN SLAGHTER WHER THE SUN DONT SHINE
sO THE RACEIST SUB S OFF A BITCH GOT A PASS FOR SHOOTING A NONETY bLAHCK kid
aN THEN THE world heard about it
nothings changed the world watching trolls an
he will be convicted of second degree unanimously by an impartial jury
SIMPLES.
First, MOM can’t un-ring the bell of the jury hearing those interviews with those inconsistencies. Saying you spread someone’s arms out when you didn’t is a big inconsistency. The 86 seconds is a big inconsistency. Someone circling your car and not telling the dispatch is a big inconsistency. The defense has not denied as of yet that Trayvon said to Zimmerman, “what are you following me for”. Do you know what that means? That means that Zimmerman was still following. That is a BIG inconsistency in his story. There have been several witnesses to talk about arguing that went on before the physical confrontation. That is a BIG inconsistency.
But those tapes speak for themselves. This is before forensic evidence. This is before the ME report, which may speak to whether Trayvon Martin could talk, let alone struggle, after being shot in the right ventricle. That could be another big inconsistency.
Today, the jury heard the part of the interview where Serino pointed out that Zimmerman reaching in his pocket could have been a threat perceived as a threat my Trayvon Martin. Serino went on to say in that instance that Trayvon had the right to defend himself.
Remember. Serino is still on the stand. Let’s just hope that BDLR has something up his sleeve. Mind you, he barely questioned Serino. I am hoping it is a calculated strategy. Let’s see what he does tomorrow. Again, the examination of Serino is not done and he seems to want to drop the hammer on Zimmerman based on some of his answers to MOM. Serino did not appear to be a willing witness for the defense and he couched his answers. A few of his answers left the door open for BDLR and team to walk through. Hopefully, the prosecution will walk through these doors tomorrow.
Five mothers on a jury know how they would feel if their child went to the store to get candy and ended up dead. Let’s hope they can see Sybrina as a mother too.
That may be but there are Zidiot mothers out there. I will continue referencing OJ and Casey Anthony. My opinion about the case doesn’t matter. Does the jury understand REASONABLE DOUBT? I don’t know.
And the prosecution failed to meet their burden in both the Simpson and Anthony trials. Why? FORENSICS! OJ’s DNA experts cleaned house on the prosecutions DNA experts, and they didn’t have any forensics against Anthony. The main event is yet to come…
Exactly. There was not sufficient forensic evidence to tie either to the murder.
Actually, although I consider both guilty, the jury did what they were suppose to do.
Here we have an absolute confessed killing. No questions on that.
When forensics are detailed and explained, there will be no reasonable doubt that the night did not go down the way GZ said or other friendly witnesses did.
I do not think witnesses are the way to win a case. I think sometimes circumstantial (applies logic) and forensic is far more powerful.
Besides, FDLE can clean up and clarify every single thing the SPD said. They had ALL the information in front of them verses the SPD which had very little to go on.
Shari:
Let’s hope that they do.
But how will the jury know about the inconsistencies if Bernie doesn’t’ point them out? Bernie has yet to prove anything but George’s narrative. What is he waiting on?
What is he waiting on? I think FDLE to do that for them….
I agree. Today he should have left the ury with no doubt that Z lied and lied and lied about the pursuit and shooting of TM. e.g Circling the car………..wtf Yep What was he waiting for. How could Singelton and Serino NOT have conceded that was pure invention? Wasnt that a highlight of Guy’s OS.
But BDLR hasn’t cross-examined Serino yet. Serino is still on the stand. Let’s see what comes of that.
O’Mara was the one doing cross examination. Consequently he was the one allowed to ask leading questions.
It’s more important the jury knows all the lies at the end, the closer to the end the better.
Eric says How will the jury know about the inconsistencies if Bernie doesn’t tell them”. I like you was nervous because of omara questioning but the jurors will have the tapes when they deliberate. One of the instructions JN gave to jurors was to listen to all the evidence before forming an opinion.I’ve read everyone’s opinion here and gone back to BDLR’S questioning and omar’s couldn’t listen to the FBI dude, thanks Rachael.luv her bald guy comment.now I realize today was just one day.Please God give Trayvon’s family strength.
To see how long 86 seconds are, just sit and time it outside when it is pitch black and there are no sounds. Then add an element of fear like a nut chasing you with a gun cocked.
Don’t let today rattle you, faithful bloggers/ truth seekers. If we can figure all this out so can a jury.
BDLR is getting it ALL into the record, at the very least.
Agreed. In the meantime, we need some alcohol. Bernie needs to start acting like he can argue his way out of a paper bag.
Yeah, and I liked it when Serino talked back to MOM’s question about trying to trip up GZ with “trying to get the truth.”
But I would say we are a little more slanted to one side.
The last thing this jury will hear from Serino will be the interview tapes. They seem to had a hard time hearing them and will be provided in deliberations.
They are so damning to GZ and really, why would be say on the stand that he believed him yet pointed out every inconsistency and impossibility in the interview video.
It does not matter what a police officer believed, he did not have all the evidence at that time…only GZ’s words.
I think redirect is more powerful than direct because you “get the last word”
O’Mara brought of the opinion of Serino, so therefore a few emails that should he suggested that he charge him should be an interesting redirect.
Why suggest charging if he was not lying about self defense?
Its a master stroke realt when you think about it if foggagge thinks this is his hail mary pass.
To avoid takeing the stand then he is doomed doomed I tell you….
Come on theres so much real forensic evidence that proves his re enactment a lie.
Without Rachel with out Marathon gal school teacher.
We had TRAYVONS BODY 40FT FROM t
We had shell caseings an we had foggagges own words.
For 18mnths he has been or his lies have been the star witnesses
What he said could not have happened.
An now the jury has heard his LIES.
An theve heard some of the facts an nothing matches even remotely what he states???
An suddenly everyones thinks because his lies are in its A VICTORY FOR THE DEFENCE.
Ive never hrear or read such deafetist nonsense
TRUTH AN JUSTCE AN TRYVON AN HIS FAMILY WILL PREVAIL
In spite of spite an hate an predudice no fix will work on an impartial fair jury.
I’m with you Colin
Exactly.
So it is spoken. So shall it be.
@ Colin Black:
My Mom always said “Give them enough rope and they’ll hang themselves”
I believe BLDR is playing the Defense just like any good fisherman would bring in a big catch. Let the fish strike the bait and take it off a short distance. When it swallows give the line a quick little snap to set the hook then slowly and deliberately pull in a little line until you feel it become taut as you’re letting it run till it’s tired. THEN just when the spool is almost empty apply heavy pressure and reel that bitch on in!
Please profile E6 again. Is she the forewoman? She has been taking notes and speaking with the judge. Is she the one who said Trayvon was out “so late at night.?”
If so she is getting an earful today.
I wanted to know who or how the jury asked about seeing the “mild challenge interview” tape again. DId anyone catch the whole of that detail?
they had trouble hearing everything. judge said they’d have it available in deliberations. problem resolved.
I don’t think they get to talk to each other until the end of the trial, so I don’t think they elect a forewoman until then. It WAS E6 who complained about not being able to understand the audio on the interrogation recording, and was told it would be available to the jury during deliberation.
The jurors can talk among themselves as much as they like, so long as they don’t discuss the case itself. I think it’s standard practice to elect a foreperson early on. On the two juries I’ve been on one person would say something like “I want to be the foreman” and the rest of us replied something like “Yeah, OK.” The jurors communicate to the judge through the her.
Like others are saying it could be that BDLR is painting a bigger picture here – and that this is a turf battle in some regards.
The lowly SPD will be painted as not up to the task that the mighty FDLE was under the charge of the SP.
TC Osteen and other investigators will get to present the bombshell evidence that THEY found the striking “im glad you are all gathered here” moment where the case is explained like a cheap detective novel.
Serino is essentially laying down a bunt here for the big hitters to drive the runs home with.
(crosses fingers.)
Do you really believe the state has bomb shell evidence. Even if they do, Bernie will let Onstage rip it to shreds with nary a complaint.
Well, it makes sense that BDLR would want his peeps to be the stars.
Crossing fingers with you, that this happens.
Since his opinion was allowed, does that mean his current opinion is also allowed? It might very well be different.
whos opinion foggagges or Serrinos?
Sorry, Serino’s.
We’ve only heard Part 1 by Serino. Part 2 may play quite differently.
He has not been cross examined on the last interview video yet. I cannot say what will happen, but they have not gotten that far yet.
and he seems to stress “what he thought at the time.”
Today was not a wash it was foggen lieing to the jury an they will know it if they are impartial
RELAX
Remember the school teachwer eye witness saw none of this
Rachel Gentle SPECIAL GAL HEARD NONE OF WHT
foggagge describes in those vt s
They don’t save his ass
they destroy it
We have all said this for 18mnths
Suddenly you think the STATE an an IMPARTIALJURY IS STUPID
GET AN FN GRIP FOLKS
its in the bag done sealed an delivered or Im a Dutch Mexican Peruvian Albino from timbcktwo outa KHATMANDU.
An Ive been to Katmandu
DOT PANIC.
We must not be watching the same trial
Ok…we get it. You’ve made your point. Now let others make theirs….
🙂
Some folks observe a trial and think whoever slings the most mud is the winner. Others watch the same trial and know whomever brings forth “bit of evidence by bit of evidence” is building the case for a conviction.
Xena- a conviction that cannot be overturned on appeal.
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
@cielo62. There you go. As it is now, O’Mara and West are the ones who attempt circumventing the orders of the court. That last side bar is because the court ordered that the defense cannot bring up anything regarding whether the police should or should not have arrested GZ — that is where O’Mara was trying to go with Serino.
Today’s news features the tidbit that Ofr. Singleton testified that Zimmerman was “Shocked” to learn that Trayvon was dead.
As in shocked, shocked! to learn his victim whom he’d shot in the heart and pressed the breath out of, who lay motionless for at least 5 minutes in front of him, could somehow have died.
….shot, discussed the gun he used, did not render aid, walked around without concern….
I think it shows lying and depravity…
Did BDLR explore.this thoroughly? No. Even brought up Zimmerman talking about religion and let it go as if it was a good thing.
BDLR pissed me off on Friday when twice he tells Manalo that Zimmerman had been in a “fight” and got his “butt beat.”
@tasha.
That’s a good thing, because getting your butt beaten does not justify the use of deadly force.
I do too, KA. Real depravity. The kind of depravity that gets you whacked by karma even if you don’t go to jail.
The kind of depravity that gets you convicted of Murder2.
“here are your winnings sir.”
I guess he only meant to shoot him in the heart to scare him.
I would love to know if Zimmerman was there when the officer no longer continued CPR and put the yellow blanket over the body. What’s the timeline there?
Naw, it was to prevent a crime in an already victimized neighborhood.
And never once did he ask, “How is that guy?” or “Is he ok?”
That burns me up.
Fogen thought Trayvon was just a coon playing possum. Oh, pardon me, a punk.
Amazingly, Fogen feels compelled to lie even when it’s not required for his cover-up.
He was not shocked and he knew Trayvon was dead the moment he got his fat ass up and did not continue to detain him because he knew he didn’t need too
Exactly. And again, why didn’t BDLR stop the tape and mention this during Singleton’s direct exam? I have no idea. He could easily have told her that we’ve heard witness testimony that Zimmerman already knew Martin was dead at the scene. Basically, while he was there playing dumb at the police station several witnesses had already seen his careless disregard for Martin’s life. Why couldn’t BDLR take a minute to remind jurors that he had thoroughly proven that Zimmerman knew Martin was dead? Was that beyond the scope of what he could say to her? I guess I’m just confused about what a prosecutor can say but Lord knows the defense can say whatever.
This is an example of what I mean when I say that BDLR takes for granted that jurors will tie together points he is trying to make. I see them as clear as day but I’m not on the jury and I’ve been studying this case from almost the beginning. BDLR needs to treat the jurors like the Zimmerman case newbies they are supposed to be. He did a great job of setting the scene for the fact that Zimmerman knew Martin was dead IMMEDIATELY and he did that because he knew he would play that tidbit from his interview with Singleton where he feigned ignorance. BDLR could have taken that moment to basically say “I told you so” but he did not.
Geez, I already take meds like GZ. I might have send you a little. We will get through this together. I even invited my cousin to join us. She’s posting on FB right now.
Did you catch on redirect that he asked her about whether she would holster her weapon if she thought that her suspect was still moving around?
That was about showing that Zim knew he was dead.
I have 2 questions. If GZ did not know Zimmerman was dead, why didn’t he and first witness on the scene look into the victim’s condition. If GZ did not want to kill Trayvon but just save his life, why not evaluate him as the officer who did CPR did?
When did GZ leave the scene? Did no one discuss the condition of Trayvon Martin before he left?
GZ did not do CPR or ever claim to. Letting the “kid” (George’s own words), just bleed out…gut wrenching madness.
Sounds like depraved indifference to me.
I will say, it is pretty scary if Officer Singleton really believed fogen did not know his victim was dead. I find hard to believe she is really that dumb though…
Officer Smith drove Fogen to the station. He knew he was dead.
Very good point.
Who cares if, at the time, Serino believed him. The last words out of Serino’s mouth the jury will hear is the video. It looks like JN is allowing them to take it into deliberations. It is OBVIOUS Serino was suspicious of GZ in his questions.
Additionally, on the State’s cross, can Bernie bring out the emails that should that Serino believed he should have been charged with 1) Murder II and then changed to 2) Manslaughter.
If he thought he was telling the truth about self defense, why would be suggest charges filed against him?
It would make a great redirect….
But will Bernie ask that? I say no, the fix is in.
I just feel the prosecution is letting the defense create these “false narratives”. I must admit OMara is good at twisting things in their favor. That is his job; however, there are/were so many opportunities for the state to counteract, which I felt they fell flat.
sorry wrong replay.
But to KA’s point, I agree it would be a great redirect. Unfortunately, it would make the prosecution witness sound like he is covering for someone.
create reasonable doubt
I am going to hedge my bets here and say that BDLR has nothing. He and his team are going to sit there again tomorrow and allow OMara and Sideshow Bob run the court as they have been doing the last few days.
They need to light a fire under themselves.
But why?
I just feel the prosecution is letting the defense create these “false narratives”. I must admit OMara is good at twisting things in their favor. That is his job; however, there are/were so many opportunities for the state to counteract, which I felt they fell flat.
If they are allowed to present it and jury takes notes THEN later testimony shows that it is false narrative jury will distrust defense.
Because of the burden of proof they have to get a conviction for 2nd degree murder. The bar is very high. And O’Mara thus far has managed to turn every cop on the stand into a defense witness. Guy spoke during his excellent OS of Z’s web of lies. Today BDLR should have re-inforced those self serving lies for the Jury. KateW is right.
But the cops were on Fogen’s side right from the beginning. Remember “You’re still the good guy here” and “I’m on your side” and “I’m here for you”?
…but your story is problematic dude (paraphrase).
yeo, except Serino.
NOT 13 PLEASE????????????
July 1, 2013 at 5:54 pm
Another Qoute from the Hitch hikers Guide To The Universe can sum up progress for foggagge today.
NOTHING CONTINUED TO HAPPEN.
Same as conditions inside the foggagge one brain?
Yeah basically Serino protecting their image on why they didn’t charge earlier. Corruption.
Cant think of one good got damn reason why BDLR didn’t get him to talk about his suspicions of Zimmerman’s story. Why the hell couldn’t he go over the timeline with someone who brought up and was trying to match the timeline? Why did he get sidetracked when showing Singleton the aerial view of the RATT map and not ask her about Zimmerman getting hit and falling backwards? He didn’t even finish everything Zimmerman told her using his pointers SLOPPY AND STUPID.
And why in all that is great in heaven didnt he ask either of them if knowing Martin was on the phone would have cast doubt on his story?
They didn’t know martin was on the phone, offically speaking. The case was no longer theirs really when that became offically part of the investigation. Anything they said about RJ/W8/DD is basically hearsay.
There is a lot they didn’t know but O’Mara got them to comment as if their first interview with Zimmerman is the only one they did and based on that he was telling the truth. I don’t see how it was irrelevant to ask them if they knew everything the state knows if their opinion would be different. After all, he is on trial because of evidence the state found that the SPD was not privy to.
But beyond that, that does not explain why they did not go over the timeline with either Singleton or Serino. There was Singleton, pointing at a map Zimmerman drew that proves he actually jumped out and followed Martin near the mailboxes and BDLR glosses over that and goes to the T. PHUCK THE T! The chase didn’t start at the T and every time the State draws attention to it and mentions it, they reinforce the biggest of all Zimmerman’s lies at that is the chase started near the T.
The SPD did a failed investigation.
Then Lee got wiped out.
Then Wolfinger hid in a cupboard.
Then Corey got appointed.
Then FDLE did a valid investigation.
So when BDLR questions the FDLE investigators, there is opportunity to bring out ALL THE INFORMATION that will convict Fogen.
This interlude we are seeing now is the “escape hatch for the SPD” and it was built by BDLE under Corey’s supervision. He’s taking the flak for it of course, but then again he’s getting a big reward in a few weeks’ time. I think it’s a quid pro quo.
Please see Malisha’s reply and breathe a little. I am not trying to attack you at all, I just want you to relax and wait for the boom to be lowered. BLDR and Corey are not risking their reputations in a case like this. Have a little faith dear. 🙂
I really want to remain calm but the stones left unturned are bothering me so much. God, I can’t think of a good reason why BDLR didn’t just use this entire day with Singleton, let alone Serino. How could he get to them both in the same day when they were filled with so much juicy information? Sigh.
@tasha.
What might help you is more knowledge of trial procedure. This isn’t a trial on television such as Law and Order where crime, investigation, and trial is held in one hour. It’s not a mudslinging contest like television Divorce Court.
Yea this must be BDLR strategy which is to present the defense case before the defense presents its case then BDLR will present the states real case which will probably be the forensics and text msgs and phone calls. I think now, BDLR is preparing for the possibility of the Defense asking the judge to dismiss the case after the prosecution rest.
A motion to dismiss is standard practice, and expected.
It seems to me that Bernie is hitting the self-defense story head on by admission of all the statements. What shows self-defense:
* fogen’s word which will be destroyed by the time this is over.
* minor injuries that can be refuted by a better medical witness or by the mom’s on the jury.
* John’s almost suggestion of ground and pound. John stands alone.
* Singleton’s acceptance of fogen’s story b/c she had nothing with which to refute it.
* Serino’s story that had nothing to refute fogen’s at the time of the “challenge” interview. Rebuttal pending. MOM went there with some of his questions so BDLR can question him about evidence that later shows the inconsistencies. or BDLR continues to challenge fogen’s stories.
What’s in evidence so far:
* fogen says he spread Trayvon’s hand. did not happen.
* fogen only saw John even though he spoke to Serene and Jon.
* No mention of his phone call.
* fogen knocked down by first punch at the T, Rachel refutes.
I expect to see a timeline of who went where when and fogen’s pants burst into flame while his nose grows long enough for birds’ nests.
Bingo! Well done.
Like i said in the last thread, what was telling to me the reported jury interest in and reaction to the GZ tapes and the blatantly nature of GZ’s lies. MOM can dance all he wants but, those tapes tell the tale.
Exactly, we are not just counting on BDLR here. The jury is asking all the right questions. Better questions than I thought they would. They are taking this very seriously. The jury is encouraging me greatly.
@bettykath. Excellent outline.
If I read GZ’s phone records correctly, he phoned NEN after he shot Trayvon. What person who thinks they are injured to the point of being killed justifying their shooting another person, calls NEN that does not dispatch an ambulance?
Not only did the UPS worker and Serena see GZ. They saw him walk to the trash can twice. GZ said he only got up when he saw the police. How could he have the convo with the ups guy about what caliber?
@dianneT- IIRC, he never acknowledges his interaction with either of those witnesses. He claims to have asked Jon M to help him ‘restrain’ Trayvon…but nothing about his ‘excited utterances’ of “do I have blood on my face”, “He was beating me up and I had to defend myself”. His claims about asking JM to help restrain the ‘suspect’ …can be proven false because 1)Selma never mentions him saying anything to anyone else other than for her to, “call 911”, after 3 times of asking him, “what’s going on”. 2) he’s already left Trayvon’s body and walked towards the ‘T’, at which time Jon has come out. JS statements corroborates that.
Only witness he does say he interacts with is John, his MMA compadre. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if he had time to plant that “corn” with John soon as he was released…”man, I saw you when you came out. Did you hear me yell for help”. “That’s when he was straddling me, throwing down MMA punches(GZ showing the actual moves) You saw that, right?” Sure, John went along with it initially, till he saw it was about get serious, and then decided to “clarify” his initial statement.
Tasha, that is not how giving evidence works.
What they did or asked at the time could ONLY have been caused by what they KNEW at the time, This is not a game of “if you had your life all over what would you change”.
Like, when Serino says “not at the time”….. which clearly indicates that at a later time he thought different.
BDLR knows what he is doing.
1) get the basic facts out there
2) let the defence try to rip it to shreds
3) on REDIRECT neatly ask just enough questions to totally demolish everything the defence just worked so hard to do.
Some things you feel he should have asked, if he asks them first, the defence could damage. If he asks them afterwards, the damage goes onto the defence.
This means the defence won’t be able to bring up- those points in their OWN CASE either. If they call the same witnesses, and ask them the same questions, BDLR will be able to get up and cross-examine them with “4 days ago as witness for the prosecution you said DIFFERENT.. WHY?.”
He is setting traps. The defence has no choice but to step into them, because if they don’t cross-examine the witnesses at all, that is even worse for them. And they are hoping to get the defence story across NOW, because they know they can’t really put GZ in the stand because he is such a liar.
I adore you Aussie!
After BDLR brings feds to the stand, can he then bring Serino back?
I believe Serino and Singleton have not been excused and can be recalled.
As long as that option is open and will be used if needed … good.
^This basically *applauds*
Saw that coming. Based off of what Jose Biased has been spewing in the media.
collecting thoughts for a coherent comment
aren’t we all! what a ride. Imagine how Tracy and Sabrina feel.
I hope we can have half the strength they have displayed.
(repost from end of last thread)
Let’s talk a little Conspiracy Theory:
Q: If you’re Rick Scott, what’s the LAST thing you want to come out of this trial? The thing you want most of all to AVOID?
A: a DOJ investigation of the SPD.
Q: How do you keep that from happening?
A: Make Zimmerman the one and only fall guy.
If GZ gets convicted, all the shit will die down. If GZ gets off, it won’t. Just think about how all the posts on this blog focus on ‘Fogen.’ There will be great cheers here if he gets convicted. The vast majority of us will take a breather from our Martin/Zimmerman exhaustion and go back to our everyday lives. There will be no significant pressure on the DOJ, and the Obama Administration has enough hot button issues to deal with they’ll let this one drop. If GZ gets off, a lot of us will still be here, hanging on Ben Crump’s next move. Al Sharpton will be back on the air. The pressure will be on the DOJ…
Conclusion: I don’t think Bernie’s tanking it.
So the question becomes, does he have more up his sleeve, or is he just not the badass prosecutor he’s cracked up to be?
Honestly, I don’t know. But here’s a thought:
This investigation was taken away from the SPD and handed to the FDLE. If BDLR needs cops to testify to the inconsistencies between GZ’s statements and the known facts he doesn’t have to rely on Singleton and Serino. He’s got the FDLE investigators who took up the case to query on the stand if he wants to: Batchelor, Gilbreath, O’Steen… They may (or may not) tell a different story.
Remember, the Martin family and their supporters just wanted a trial. I think they would have been satisfied with a manslaughter charge going forward. But the State brought Murder 2. I doubt Angela Corey is the type to pull a Murder 2 charge out of her butt. She’s a political creature, and I doubt she would make a charge in a high profile case unless she thought she could make it stick. Plus, she has to have been aware of the possibilities of losing due to the Casey Anthony verdict. And Corey and BDLR are big 2nd Amendment supporters: I doubt they show up at a gunfight without the necessary ammo…
Just my 2¢.
Clearly what Serino said is not good and I’m pissed at BDLR for not closing the door on everything Omara got him to say. He also let Omara run out the clock on HIS WITNESS. Inexcusable.
tasha overreacts yet again
this is tiresome
So stop reading my.comments ole whiny ass!
i promise you, if you keep that up, you’ll be gone soon.
I presume youre in the wrong thread to think my.doubts are out of place. Find you some business.
That’s the second time you’ve attacked me here for stating opinion. Don’t try to go all George Zimmerman bully on me. Again, find you some business.
Tasha, knock it off. If you’d read more and trash-talk less, you might learn something.
Why attack her for her opinion even if you have never agreed with any of hers. T.O. appears to be a cyberbully and thinks he/she is better and above all others here. Some ppl are just like Forgen fans, they will always see things from a single point of view no matter what it is. DeeDee could have cracked up laughing and changed her whole story during her testimony and some people like T.O. will think it went well.
IMBlack. – unlike you, Trained Observer has been here for over a year. You crash on the scene like an uneducated boor, causing dissension and name calling. Your comments add nothing. Not even wit. There’s a name for that.
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
That is not an appropriate response. I do not permit personal attacks.
@Tashatexas770048.
If I ever make you angry and you respond to me like that, just hope I’m having a good day to bless you in return.
Miss TashaTexas better learn some manners.
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
that is a bit much
Ic2fools- she’s over the top disrespectful.
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
those positive negative comments truly lack any reasonable reinforcement, i.e. they are positively negative.
how in the world does anyone in their right mind post in a forum and not want anyone else to read it? isn’t that the purpose of the forum. (sybil o-0) we keep reading ‘it’ enough we’d be cra-cra too.
remember when i told you the one whom i believed i could have a ‘debate’ and tried well that’s exactly how it’s language became, always resorting to personal attacks single just one out for that tirade.
sigh what a wast, its’ summer break less supervision.
I don’t agree. I haven’t agree with one statement Tasha has made to date. I agree with this one. I don’t feel she’s overreacting and I believe she has a valid point (about BDLR and Serino).
Thank you. Again, it’s because I care about the Martin family and I want justice for their son, I couldn’t give two live shyts about what people here think about me. I don’t attack anyone here.
you know i like you nef, but i fail to see how bdlr ‘let the clock run out’ if they were already in 1 hour of overtime, we know there will be continued questioning tomorrow (probably lengthy). how could this have been avoided? perhaps by scheduling serino at the beginning of a day, but i think they also had to work with nakasone’s schedule as well. do you have a better suggestion?
And nobody can kick you out but the Professor and he gives us all a little room to let differences work themselves out without him involving himself. Tasha your opinion is always welcomed but they will try and call you a troll but who cares what they think.
IMBlack- we, as in other posters here, are the community here. You can’t abuse the community and expect to be welcomed. Histrionics get old. You cry wolf too many times, nobody listens.
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
Of course. I like you, too Faux – always have, always will even when I might disagree. Your suggestion is a good one, and I’ll concede they probably had to work with Dr. Nakasone. I was thinking more along the lines of BDLR having s longer Direct examination. I feel like he should have gone through those inconsistencies. Dug further into what and why Serino said the things he did, on the tape, and delved into the logistics of the crime scene, in toto, from the places on the map that contradict what fogen said, to the inconsistencies of what Serino personally observed between fogen’s statements and the crime scene he saw that night.
That alone would have taken them past 5pm, and when he was done, the judge would probably have recessed for the evening, leaving the jury nothing to ponder on but the inconsistencies BDLR laid out and the reasons Serino filled out two capias drafts for murder two.
Instead, O’Mara got a chance to minimize “inconsistencies” and we broke for the evening with the last thing out of the lead detectives mouth being that he thought fogen spoke the “truth”. It was poorly done. Extremely poorly done. Which is why I believe Tasha had a valid point, in this instance.
If may ignore verbal struggles here. I was a bit disappointed and I have appreciated it much more if Singleton had to handed her little anecdotes about “charming Fogen”. I wondered what all the Singleton fans here thought of her. Only in hindsight I realized that some of what she said was actually quite helpful. So he was surprised “the suspect” was dead?
Obviously O’Mara took her much more lightly than Serino. As he said: Fogen is either innocent or a pathological liar.
It was a peculiar day, no doubt. But I am prepared for ups and downs. Bill Shaeffer suggested on wftv by bringing in all of of Singleton’s and Serino’s interviews in prosecution has managed to keep Fogen off the stand. He does not need to witness anymore. Defense couldn’t have brought in his narratives under the hearsay rule.
I am not so sure if he is correct, if these statements are not much more easy to be used and picked up by prosecution in later contexts. Even Singleton’s cross narrative versus the Hannity interview.
concerning tasha, O’Mara’s strategy of constantly polishing his clients image would make me sick, if I were on jury. He does not offer good arguments only repeats over and over again the same talking points. .Will the ladies succumb to it? It is surely meant to stick, repetition belongs to learning, but will it work if you overdo it?
I wish also Serino had paid more attention to the questions he agreed to. E.g. the vain argument that Fogen couldn’t know the evidence that was collected that evening , e.g claiming to have screamed, and someone recorded a scream. Hadn’t she dones so many would have reported it anyway. So what? He couldn’t presume that? What an utter bullshit. He couldn’t know that at one point someone came out and confirmed his story? Nonsense. Nonsense. Had Trayvon survived he would have reported that too.
Oh shit, I better don’t read the rest:
If [I]may ignore verbal struggles here. I was a bit disappointed and
I have[would have appreciated]Or whatever I haven’t switched to English yet. 😉
Yes it is, faux. Facts be damned, there are narcissistic ninnies out there who think every case unfolds in 50 minutes, sans commercials, like NCIS, Matlock, or Perry Mason re-runs.
🙂
Judy & faux McCoy- true dat!
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
@Faux –
Agree, this minute-by-minute nit-picking by a newbie IS tiresome. O’Mara didn’t “run out the clock.” Chris Serino will be back on the stand.
Let’s give the hardworking jurors a break! They went to 6:00 p.m. of intensive testimony, often difficult to follow. Could not make out Nakasone. The “videos made of videos” had terrible sound quality in the courtroom, Yet they struggled to keep up AND MAKE NOTES. Kudos to these warrior ladies! (and let’s not forget, one guy)
For the first time the evidence videos are being broadcast publicly and nationwide. Not just for us doc-pursuing nerds!
That’s just the first wave of the incoming tsunami of evidence that will convict Fogen of Murder 2!
Keep the faith, baby – and thanks, Fauxy!
as always, Pmom and back atcha!
Tasha- You apparently don’t know straight up about what’s going on. This is not an athletic event, and there is no clock to run out.
I just wish she would quit flooding the threads.
Indeed! There’s a difference between stating an opinion and what she’s doing with the incessant hand ringing she’s been doing since she got here. It’s very tiresome. If you want to make a point, fine but the constant OMG!!!!! the sky is falling!!!! ranting is over the top.
Ok so I’ll keep “flooding” the threads. I can’t be bullied. When I’m attacked I don’t run and scream as 17 year old kids should do, I stand and fight as grown women should do.
Good God. And I came over here to get a break from all the HP in-fighting and back-stabbing and name-calling. Why all this, all of a sudden? Where’s this coming from?
I shouldn’t even go here, but, trained obsv. is real Tasha is out of control, just saying. I’m way behind ’cause I’m drinking& have to care for my pets.
Not correct.
First, he has no control over the length of time that O’Mara cross examines Serino.
Second, he gets to do redirect after O’Mara finishes his cross tomorrow.
@professor
thank you kindly, sir.
@tashatexas77048. When the State has opportunity to re-direct, how is it you think that they let the clock run-out? Also, with the prosecution having FDLE witnesses, how is it you think that BDLR should have closed the door on Serino’s testimony? By leaving it open, there is better opportunity for FDLE witnesses to testify how they found what Serino did not.
Additionally, since it’s the defense that is taking so much time with State witnesses, have you not seen that when they re-cross after re-direct, that all they have are the same questions they asked during cross?
No worries…..in over time “…….Bernie…….he’s shoots…..he SCOREEEEESS….”
I am learning so much here!!!
I’ll say it again, BDLR left far too many stones unturned. Had he really taken his time with Serino, Serino could have been the states last witness toda, forcing Omara to cross him the next day. Instead he rushed thru his exam of him, didn’t ask the right questions that would have allowed the jury to see the extent in which he doubted Zimmerman’s story and left the door open for Omara to lead his witness and end the day with a bombshell statement by Serino. It’s not rocket science.
@tashatexas77048.
But, you said that BDLR let the clock run out. Did you read the professors comment that you are wrong? Of course, you can still insist but without laying your opinion out according to trial procedure, your opinion isn’t coming across credible.
Actually Tasha
after a good night sleep
I can tell you that Serino is not BDLR’s witness
He is the defense’s witness
now ask yourself why the state called him and think about it while, keeping in mind haw tedious and boring we find the defense
Tzar- Serino is his own man trying to keep his job and pension by not making his police department look bad nationally and internationally. Same with Singleton. They are not crusaders, just low level grunts caught in a game that has already cost Billy Lee and Wolfinger their positions.
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
I agree, but did you see him struggling to say what O’mara wanted
Serino seems burned out and tired. He is painful to watch.
whonoze says
i believe i made that same statement to willis as we were finishing up on previous thread.
thanks, both of you.
Serino fascinates me. We’ve not seen behind his veil much at all, even after today I think. Complex guy.
i agree. all answers non-committal. even the last question as phrased considering the pretext of ‘either telling the truth or pathological liar’.
if you take ‘pathological liar’ off the table as o’mara asked, what have you got left? he answered the question the only way he could.
???????????????????????????????????
Serino is right on the edge of cracking and spilling the beans. he is tired of lying, he is tired of shitting on his integrity as an investigator, you can see it in his eyes, If Bernie wants him singing about his blue suede shoes, he can get him
it’s obvious
I was hoping he would get that on direct. I pray he can get it on re-direct but I’m not putting my eggs in the Serino basket. He is clearly a broken man.
i do not envy his position. there is clearly something big going on behind the scenes that we will in all likelihood never know. did he say 16 years at SPD? that’s 4 more until full retirement, or is usually the case. he has too much invested to blow it all – probably has kids, a mortgage. something clearly is hanging over his head, i suspect corey’s office knows and is doing their best to just help him get to retirement. by all accounts, serino and singleton’s work on the investigation was solid.
remember though at corey’s presser when announcing the arrest, she praised SPD. clearly, there is some form of unwilling, but communal back scratching going on.
my best guess is the same as whonoze’s — that the state is allowing somewhat of a pass on serino and singleton in court and the burden will fall on the shoulders of FDLE and her own investigators.
@Tzar. I agree. At one point during Serino’s testimony, it was as if I could read his mind as he looked over at GZ — “You (expletive) Look at my career now because of you.”
Tzar, I hope you’re right, but he sure looked tight as a drum today. If Bernie can get to him & break him, so much the better. But Serino looks like a man who’s taken his oath with the mafia, and he has no intention of losing anything more than he already has to that GZ schmuck. I would lay down a million bucks, if I had it, that Serino curses the day he ever laid eyes on GZ. Sad commentary, all around, but MAN, do I hope you’re right.
Serino needs to search his soul, spill the beans, write a best selling book, skip town, then commece to living happily ever after.
Look at him. He can’t keep this fascade going for much longer. I PRAY that Bernie has what it takes to coax it outta him. It shouldn’t be too difficult. He needs to unburden himself.
Serino has more to say for sure. Lets be honest here though. When you have politics and the law in the mix we all know what can happen. It’s all about power and no what happens to people when it comes to exposure. Have you noticed how many die suddenly, take a look. Suiside or a plane crash. It’s all about power and money. Take a look at the deaths under the Clinton administration, I believe it’s call the list. The people in the prime of their lives, healthy, but suddenly die, accidents, suiside, plane crashes. 911, do you think it went down like they want you to believe, there’s alot more that happened. Have you ever heard the saying Silence is Golden. There’s a reason for that.
willis, I don’t know how complex. I was pretty heartbroken today, listening him to testifying that GZ was such a stand-up fella and how much he believed him. All I could think was that Serino doesn’t want to lose his pension and have the entire SPD stabbing him in the back. Seemed as though he made his deal with the Devil today. The person we saw today was NOT the same person who walked GZ through the day after the murder.
There must be a lot of old guard there, that enforce this failure to serve and protect equally under the law
cercando luce says
i suspect this is the sad truth and both singleton and serino are vulerable in their own ways. he is approaching his 20 year retirement mark, likely has children to support and a mortgage to pay. singleton i know has children, probably a mortgage and is a minority female in a male dominated culture. do they really have the true freedom to create waves?
Cercando, You said it. Just the fact that Serino made a hairpin-U-turn is proof of the pressure of the thin blue line. He’d have figured out by now that the old guard would make his life a living hell if he didn’t toe the SPD “official story.” I don’t know how old Serino is, but he’s sure not willing to throw his pension down a rat hole. In the end, he must’ve done the inevitable calculation:
“Trayvon’s already dead. Nothing–including my testimony–will bring him back. Let the pieces fall where they may, but I’m not risking anything more in my life or my future on this POS Zimmerman.”
Newton, as I seat here today I don’t find Serino complex at all
He is a guy caught between common sense/professional integrity vs th desires of those above his pay grade. this has been his life since 2/26/12, just go to back his capiases from M2x2 to MSx1 to Zimmerman not being charged at all; they tell the same story. His time on the stance yesterday was a reiteration of his professional/moral morass that he has been afflicted with for over a year now.
My sense is that the jury will feel that. How could they not, Serino oozes conflict, his body language tells it all, he writhes on the stand as he constructs and remodels his answers to suit both of his masters. Serino reminds me of the sterile man afraid to tell his pregnant wife.
“The sterile man afraid to tell his pregnant wife”!
Tzar, I never heard a quote as quotable! YOU RULE!
I want to believe that the tapes speak for themselves which will not have the fast talking slick MOM on them leading them to think one way or another. I want to believe that the jury will listen and see the lies for what they are.
It is amazing how MOM continued to mention Jon Good as if he was the only witness that testified to what they seen and/or heard. Also amazing is that MOM wants it to be okay that CAC changed his versions while Rachel was demonized for not mentioning how Trayvon described CAC in the presence of his grieving mother.
And then we learn that Singleton suggested that Trayvon probably thought CAC creepy as well. What are the odds of that?
I am going to hold on to my faith because I know there is more testimony. Perhaps BDLR already knew that Serino would be evasive in his answering the straight forward questions and would need to lead to the answers needed. BDLR pointed out what I thought were important answers. Most importantly that CAC said, “That doesn’t even sound like me”.
Gosh this is exhausting.
it is very tiring, isn’t it?
Very tiring. I am so frustrated right now.
Well that does make a lot of sense, but I just don’t know anymore.
i agree with a lot of this but wanted to point out one inportant point:
The Martin family did NOT “just want a trial.” They also specifically asked for the DoJ to investigate the SPD, and wrote a letter to such effect. They never got a direct answer, but instead a promise of “Action” from the DoJ in the form of a speech by AG Holder announcing that the DoJ was going to investigate whether GEORGE ZIMMERMAN violated TM’s civil rights. (nothing from the DoJ EVER about cleaning house at the cop shop other than a vague”we will follow wherever it leads,” and no definition of what “it ” was. ) And with that came some feather-smoothing actions by the Community Relations department of the DoJ, and a photo op of the FBI walking around sanford VERY briefly.
Norm wolfinger quietly announced he would not seek re-election and then refused to spaek to the NYT pulitzer prize winning reporter.
It’s all political, sure to an extent but no one can guarentee an outcome.
But I agree it’s a shame that this garden variety knucklehead GZ is the focus here. Elected and appointed officals like WOlfinger and then police cheif Bill Lee should have been the focus of public hearings of some sort.
The SYG laws should have been the focus of MORE congressional attention.
The DoJ should have come in to sanford and cleaned out the cop shop on general principal, right or wrong.
The fed’s will not do anything in this case until this trial is completed! They will not do anything to jeopardize the outcome of this trial!
I wouldn’t think the DOJ is sleeping on this one. It may well be that this case is merely the starting point, and the well goes deep and it takes time. We screamed for the feds for years before they indicted Kwame Kilpatrick, only to find out they had been investigating him almost as soon as we started screaming for it.
They may well not go into Wolfinger – that would set the Seminole County judicial system on it’s ear and many, many cases would have to be reviewed. But, on the other hand, he’s not that high on the food chain. Not when they’ve brought down Mayors, Congressmen and Governors.
Can they get SPD, without Wolfinger? That remains to be seen, but (IMO) the feds care nothing about some podunk cop shop that (I understand) had previously been under federal oversight. Not when they’ve done the same to Detroit, LAPD and other large and prominent departments.
my pal nef asks
since prosecutors and local LE work hand in hand AND the fish rots from the head, i don’t know how he could be overlooked by the feds.
sanford has a seriously troubled history, i hope there is an investigation in progress. the only thing we do know is that we won’t know anything until this trial is settled. maybe then, some fish heads will roll.
I hope so, Faux. I truly hope so. I have no doubt fogen was emboldened not only by his gun, but by the culture of SPD/SA, whose belief in the disposability of black males appears to have been longstanding.
PS. Nancy Grace just told Taaffe to speak when spoken to. Best laugh I’ve had all day! 😀
excellent on the laffy taffy front. someone had to do it!
@Fauxy,
@WillisNewton,
Let’s keep in mind that Sanford is making efforts to turn its PD around. It has a new Chief (from a Northern state) willing to come in and root stuff out. Big emphasis in reaching out with community policing. He’s also Black, and has support across the community.
They have a young Mayor who forced the 311/911 tapes out for public review (and who was incredulous that fogen had not been arrested immediately).
They have a superb City Manager, Norton Bonaparte, respected nationally and likely to go on to bigger cities and bigger paychecks but who is staying put to keep the community glued together without incident. Oh – also a Black guy.
One SPD officer stands out during this trial for his compassion, self-sacrifice and humanitarian act of unprotected mouth-to-mouth resuscitation of the victim. Even that oafish City Commissioner, Patty-what’s-her-butt has kept a civil tongue in her motor-mouth – finally!
Nobody at a higher echelon in State and Federal LE is going to do anything until well after the jury deliver its verdict.
If it’s “Guilty!”, as I expect, and considering WillisNewton’s thoughtful examination of the broader implications, above, I believe NOTHING further will be done about past transgressions of SPD other than “watchful waiting” – as oncologists recommend in many cases.
And now we enter into a new day —
How y’all doing for sleep?
Anybody remember The Joy of ZZZZs?
desperate for decent sleep as always.
what you say about new people in sanford is true, but i swear i saw the ghost of sanford past rattling chains in that courtroom yesterday. something was off.
How many cases has BDLR tried? BEcause frankly he is being way too nice. Is this the “present the evidence and let the jury make a decision on their own” or the “I really have no idea why I am here”. Did they just bring this case to court because of pressures outside from people upset by what happened? The bottom line is this guy needs to do time for this killing. Nothing else is acceptable but a 17 year old kid is dead for no reason. On his way home from a store, with a drink and candy and not committing any crime. Nothing should be accepted but a guilty verdict.
Agreed. That’s the bottom line.
Need Juan Martinez of the Jodi Arias trial. This is ridiculous. Poor Trayvon didn’t stand a chance that night and it seems that trend is continuing. Truly sickening. Unless something dramatic happens, this f**ker is going to walk. I can not believe what I just witnessed. God bless the Martin family for being able to sit through this fiasco. I wouldn’t be able to do it. This trial has become a joke.
Personally, I cannot STAND Juan Martinez, His style makes me sick. He is as arrogant as MOM.Just sayin’.
Hey, Tasha, it’s me, Anita, seriously, I love your passion.I’m thinking you’re quite a lot younger than me. When I was in my 20’s & mid 30’s I was just like you. I was always right, knew it all,couldn’t wait. This stuff right now sucks, Please, hang in there. Have some faith. Go back on the last post & look at my heartfelt advice. Thanks much
Thanks Anita, but unless you’re in your 60’s I’m not far behind you. 🙂
de la rionda has over 250 cases behind him and john guy over 100, many of them homicides. they are the top prosecutors from corey’s office.
important to remember here is that they were called in as special prosecutors due to what was likely serious corruption at the local state prosecutor’s office.
they are not lightweights — but they do not have the luxury of a long term, good working relationship with this messed up police department. no local PD wants outside intervention — ever. this discord is showing up in the courtroom. i would submit that the initial investigation with all of its flaws and a defensive police force is somewhat beyond the control of BDLR and Guy, which is where FDLE wil step in, one would bloody well hope.
@fauxmccoy. Right. BDRL is not going to get verbally tough on State witnesses either.
it’s not bloody likely, is it?
Norm Wolfinger, who opted not to run for re-election, will be lucky to wiggle out of this without experiencing more fallout. At the least, I’d like to see his letter to Scott seeking recusal on the Fogen case unsealed.
yup — if anyone thinks that BDLR picked this group of police officers to work with or even this group of eye witnesses, they are deluded. the initial investigation was obviously a hot mess, corey’s office and FDLE did what they could do to salvage and i have faith that they believed their case to be solid when they filed charges.
will freely admit that today’s testimony was a mixed bag of tricks that i do not fully understand yet, but i know corey does not file charges just for kicks.
It’s not sealed, TO. I saw it when he sent it.
Click to access 3.22.2012WolfingerLetter.pdf
If Zimmernan walks all noise will die down. The jurors will have spoken and that will be that. Either Bernie is tanking or he is just plain sorry. I’ll go with tanking. Bernie hasn’t proven anything except Zimmerman was believed by the cops,Zimmerman was in shock,Zimmerman was justified in “following” Zimmerman was injured and did have a broken nose. Those things will out weigh the foresics. Zimmerman has won.
“If Zimmernan walks all noise will die down. The jurors will have spoken and that will be that.”
That’s what you think.
🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 :). I know this middle-aged lady will protest with a loud voice!
If ya’ll see me on t.v. looting I was just caught up in the moment lol
But seriously, if the verdict is not guilty I will be as sick as I was when they let O.J. and Casey Anthony go free. Something about this innocent young kid and what happened to him at the hands of this manipulative fat ass liar makes my blood boil.
Eric, Fogen hasn’t won. Yes, BDLR is misfunctioning. But we know that there can be many reasons why there is a misfunction, that’s why we call in experts to see why the garbage disposal in the sink is not grinding. About BDLR: I don’t know what his thing is. It is possible that there is an agreement to allow Fogen to walk but I think that deal is the less likely. Remember, when O’Mara deposed all the cops he then ran around screaming that all the cops said Fogen should not have been charged? We learned that what the cops believed about it was not admissible evidence. A cop believing or disbelieving a suspect is not what determines the guilt or innocence of a defendant.
I think Serino had to be given the chance to say he believed Fogen OR HIS CONDUCT in this whole matter would have come under scrutiny. Had he DISbelieved Fogen, he should have arrested him that first night, OBVIOUSLY!
I think Singleton had to be given the chance to say SHE believed Fogen or HER CONDUCT in this whole matter would have been suspect, especially in view of the fact that we have a video of Fogen telling her that he had been at a party with her and he wrote a letter of commendation to her boss about how good she had been blah blah blah.
My guess is that these folks are going through a choreographed drama meant to excuse their behavior, fix up their image, and let the prosecution get on with the rest of the case. meanwhile it’s fun for the media to go: “OH OH OH FOGEN WON FOGEN IS WINNING WOW THIS IS A BIG EXCITING TRIAL!”
After all, if the media were to say, at this point, “This guy is so obviously guilty that the state should have had him on the mat in two hours,” our circuses would be in trouble. We need our bread and circuses and since 2008, our bread has been endangered; we can’t afford to lose our circuses.
We are, after all, a bunch of damn fool bozos who can’t even put in place the social pressure and common human morality needed to keep thugs like Fogen from killing our kids.
~Malisha~ You are the VOICE of true reason. Thanks, I always appreciate what you have to say.
Also keep in mind that state investigators will have their say. I would like to see O’Mara attempt to bully them.
@Malisha –
re: “We are, after all, a bunch of damn fool bozos who can’t even put in place the social pressure and common human morality needed to keep thugs like Fogen from killing our kids.”
I love you, babe!
Backatcha, Piranha.
@Eric. I rebuke your assessment. As Corey said at the press conference that announced the charge and GZ’s arrest; “bit of evidence by bit of evidence.” The trial now stands at the “he said, she said, they said” stage. Just wait until forensics and physical evidence is introduced.
Rebuke x 2. Things are disjointed until the State gets what they all said on the record in open court, Many wits to go, and then comes much more.
@Trained Observer. Yes! It’s as though I can see and smell the State’s strategy. What tastes good to O’Mara now, will turn bitter in his stomach in just a few days.
@Xena, I agree with you on that one.
Look at the guy who came in and explained about the 2 cameras. Two small video clips that to most look like not to much of anything. Many would say, what the hell was that. Do you believe he was put on the stand for just that. It may not look like it makes cense now, but it was done for a reason.
When there is a murder, normally there is no witness, it is the circumstansal evidence that comes into play. In the Athoney case, there was enough, the 12 juriors didn’t feal it was there job to piece it all together.
I know you’ll all be upset with me but I think the fix is in.Remember how familiar Singleton was with fogen.And he asked her if she was told about the wonderful letter he wrote to her boss.I’m very very disappointed with the lack of guts of Serino.I think Josez Biaz keeps saying the prosecution has no case because he has inside information and is preparing everyone for a not guilty verdict..Oh god I hope I’m wrong It wouldn’t be the first time..You all have much more sense than me about this.
pat deadder: “I think Josez Biaz keeps saying the prosecution has no case because he has inside information and is preparing everyone for a not guilty verdict.”
I don’t believe Jose Baez would make statements like that if he didn’t have insider knowledge. I also think the reason he makes the statements are to prove to everyone how smart he was when GZ is acquitted.
I think he’s saying it because he is a defense attorney and used reasonable doubt to get Casey off, and thinks every case should succeed on reasonable doubt. He’s a shyster who gamed & won.
Jose Baez is a terrible attorney who got lucky with the Casey Anthony case. He doesn’t have any inside info.
?????
I’ve gone back and relistened to the trial.I really think I panicked for nothing and I’m going to keep the faith.Those prosecutors are a hell of a lot smarter than me so I’m sure they know what they are doing.I worry this arrogant sob might get away with murder like he has gotten away with everything else.Can you imagine him free and Shelley in jail for perjury.
And you know at night they get together to go over the day, strategize, etc. If other prosecutors thought BDLR was slacking they would find a diplomatic way to tell him. Surely Angela Corey would.
Here’s a good example of why the Jury did not find her guilty.
http://www.businessinsider.com/brainwashed-marcia-clark-explains-why-casey-anthony-jurors-came-up-with-the-not-guilty-verdict-2011-7
How To Spot An Energy Vampire
whonoze – Also, from last thread, your analysis is worth far more than 2 cents.
I would underscore two additional key points:
Fogen made himself the fall guy the moment he did what he did, putting a bullet through Trayvon Martin’s heart. Not because he had to, as John Guy so effectively pointed out, but because he wanted to.
Rick Scott’s odds of re-election are minimal. But they drop to zilch if Fogen gets off. and state tourism plummets because of unwarranted fears. Angela Corey brought out the M2 because she has the goods, of which I don’t think we’ve even begun to see. .
I completely agree. Rick Scott is a pos. Still fogen must pay for murdering Trayvon,& all his prior crimes I think he got away with. This is in reply to ‘trained observer’.
Makes sense.
One thing that seems to be happening, is the defense is laying out a lot of stuff, and they are pointing the way to their real defense, which involves the fires lit under the lack of arrest issue.
MOM can hardly attack Serino and Singleton and the SPD. So it seems, if this is what game he’s playing.
Ay2z, I don’t understand. It’s looked to me like MOM doesn’t NEED to attack Serino or Singleton … let alone the SPD. The “game” has been and apparently continues to be played by the SPD – and Serino and Singleton didn’t mess up the SPD game plan today.
Normally, law enforcement is CLEARLY in favor of the prosecution’s case and theory. That obviously is not the case here. Bernie is fighting a two-front war, and he’s struggling on both fronts.
So are any FDLE investigators on the witness list?
@Two sides.
Indeed they are.
Yes, thought they were listed.
Cool. Hopefully we’ll hear a different angle from them.
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😦
Just watched Rev.Al on Msnbc. The commentators ALL said today was the best day for the prosecution, so far. Gotta go cook my dinner, maybe I’ll check in later.
Good to hear that, anita.
follow.
follow… I’m way behind, I had some IP outages as they’re doing maintenance in my area.