Zimmerman: When in doubt, George leaves it out. What George did, he blames on the kid

March 27, 2013

At 10:53 am this morning on LLMpapa’s Dee Dee’s Story thread, Willis Newton posted the following comment:


00:19 into the video, Dee Dee confirms the car-to-pedestrian chase that George omitted, obfuscated, lied and manipulated statements about to the SPD detectives. IMO this is the KEYSTONE to destroying GZ’s credibility and also helps establish a strategy for winning the case for M2. More on that at the end.

George Zimmerman pursued Trayvon WITH HIS CAR before he exited his car, likely causing the teen to panic and run away OFF the roadway and into the cut thru area. There are laws regarding stalking someone in Florida and IMO GZ was breaking this law when he crept his car up behind the teen. ANYTHING that happened after that, ESPECIALLY his getting out of the car with a loaded weapon and (admitting) following the teen is just a nail in George’s coffin metaphorically speaking.

If (and this did NOT happen) TM had been waiting around the corner with a baseball bat and a set of burglary tools a map to the location of all the resident’s laptops and had cold-cocked GZ, the teenager had a legal right to defend himself against an armed stalker. He would have been “standing his ground.”

One cannot claim self defense while already acting in violation of the law. Criminals in the act of committing a crime like GZ was don’t get to claim they acted in self defense.

The “depraved mind” aspect of M2 charges begins (provably) when GZ chases Trayvon with his car. A stopwatch , a map and the NEN call recording ALONE can be used in court to show GZ chased the teen with his car down TTL. But in addition to that proof, it is corroborated by a map GZ personally marked showing his most likely position, facing the mail kiosk from the vicinity of the first bend in TTL, in contradiction to his impossible story of being in the clubhouse parking lot, a story GZ himself backed off from when confronted with the NEN call recording. But also we have Dee Dee’s understanding of events as heard from Trayvon – that he was ahead of a car that was following him and scared by a menacing figure.

Dee Dee is provably telling the truth about the car-to-pedestrian chase and each proof corroborates the other – the deductive reasoning derived from the NEN call recording, and the recollections of a person who was on the phone with the doomed teenager. In opposition to this is a self serving liar who is afraid to take the stand because he lied about THIS IN PARTICULAR in addition to whatever else the state can prove.

In addition to all this there is also the clubhouse videos, which show the position of the car that must be GZ’s, unless there never was any car at all, in which case GZ is still lying. This car seemingly trolls the mail kiosk, runs down to the cut thru area and then returns to exactly where GZ marked a map position he quickly crossed out before telling yet another lie, the story of TM’s doubling back and circling his vehicle, another impossible claim. I am not discounting this important evidence at all, but simply saying that it’s additional evidence and not necessary to proving the case. Nor are Dee Dee’s statements or testimony necessary either. The entire picture can be shown of a car-to-pedestrian chase simply by pitting a map and a stopwatch against the NEN call recording. Also unneeded is GZ’s statements to the police, if you want to exclude them. The proof is so simple once you look at the simple fact that GZ does not exist out of time and space, and that he was SOMEWHERE when he had the following exchange:

NEN CALL TAKER: He’s by the clubhouse now?

GZ: Yeah, and now he’s coming towards me.

This is the bedrock truth that no GZ supported has ever been able to refute credibly. GZ was lying about where he was BECAUSE he had to omit the car to pedestrian chase -he knows what it proves – his own bad intent from the get-go.

What I was saying about trial strategy above relates to where this proof gets the prosecution when arguing before a jury that GZ is guilty of M2. Firstly and importantly, it proves GZ was already guilty of a crime before the physical altercation even began. He was stalking someone in an illegal manner. Second, when giving voluntary statements to the police in the aftermath, George demonstrably lies to obscure this car-to-pedestrian chase. He invents a tale that is impossible to reconcile with the NEN call recording, inserting not one but TWO instances of being “directed” to follow the teen. This clearly never happened, but teasing out why and how George has to claim this happened TWICE (once when he was “in the parking lot” and again when he “went to get an address”) is the key to understanding what really was happening at the time.

GZ probably never saw TM by Frank Taafe’s house. The clubhouse videos and Dee Dee’s call timings along with her recollections seem to show us this. He may even have had a “tip off” to send him out looking for the lad. But it’s a more difficult “proof” to present in court and may not be worth pursuing at trial. These were actions that GZ claims came before a record was established – the NEN call recording, which puts a time clock onto the events of the evening.

Once that time clock is running however, we have something to plot likely and unlikely events against. George’s account comes up wanting, severely when you try to place the individuals at that very important and KNOWN moment in time -the moment GZ seems to say that TM is near the clubhouse, moving towards GZ.

This is where the strategy comes in – GZ is establishing a PATTERN of lies when he speaks of these actions prior to the running around in the dark, the actions that sadly are NOT recorded or witnessed by anyone living other than the (lying) defendant and one person, Dee Dee, who was listening but not able to see what exactly happened.

IMO GZ establishes a pattern to his lies that can be shown at trial EXTENDS into the actions of the missing minutes. “When in doubt, George leaves it out.” Beyond a reasonable doubt, he chased the teen down TTL with his car. And he never admitted this.

In the “missing minutes,” the prosecution can argue he also leaves out incriminating actions, in particular what he was doing and where he moved after the NEN call ended. When in doubt, George leaves it out. He’s got no explanation at all for what he did between the end of the call and the first 911 call, and WAY too much time to have been stationary given the situation – lost “suspect” (aka person he stalked and profiled, illegally), soon-to-be arriving police headed to a different position, and the silly address-looking take. George had enough time to PAINT a new street sign arguably here. Yet he never explains what he did, nor did he call the police to report an address for a meet-up.

Second is the strategy that I call “what George did, he blames on the kid.” GZ claims the teen “doubled back” to circle his car. His supporters also claim the teen “doubled back” to the T in order to confront and beat George in an aggressive manner. George himself never fully makes that assertion, but he is implying it with his account of his movements. But Trayvon never did “double back” from the T to circle George’s vehicle. It would not be possible for him to do this if one cares to try to reconcile this action with the NEN call recording and the assertion on it that the teen was “by the clubhouse now” and “moving towards me.”

What else did George do that he blames on the kid? HE DOUBLED BACK. First after trolling the mail kiosk, and secondly after Trayvon walked past his car on his way home. As GZ can be heard saying “these axxholes always get away” he is PROVABLY starting to follow the teen with his car. Dee Dee knows it. The map and stopwatch prove it. The clubhouse videos DON’T show it, (his lights are off and there is a lens “flare” obscuring the visibility) but the videos do confirm his initial position after the first doubling back action.

It’s also likely GZ “doubled back” in the missing minutes in some fashion, although absent a confession we’ll never know how and where.

GZ also leaves out significantly what he was doing with his hands during almost all of the physical altercation, save draw his weapon and shoot the unarmed teen. “When in doubt,” the prosecution should hammer over and over to the jury, “George leaves it out.” Forensics are likely to suggest George was attempting to detain the teen as he has partially admitted in his tale of an exchange with W6/ John when he speaks about “help me” being “help me hold this kid.” Just like GZ left out the car to pedestrian chase and told heaps of lies to omit, obfuscate and obscure the event, GZ seems to be leaving out his hands and what possible illegal things they were doing.

This is the PATTERN of lies. “When in doubt George leaves it out. What George did, he blames on the kid.”

There are many more examples of situations and evidence that can be presented using this general idea. I’m sure many here can name more, probably a dozen easily. He blames his domestic violence on the other partner. He leaves out that he never completed his degree, etc. He substitutes “something in his waistband” for his own ill-advised concealed weapon, etc. Most significant will be the courtroom battle over who is heard yelling for help on the 911 call. (I personally have no opinion yet on that one, but the prosecution has his mother to present and that will be very powerful, especially if a jury sees a pattern ALREADY established of substitution.)

The list is endless.

Using these two mantras, the prosecution could paint a very very damning picture and give a jury a framework to build a very solid consensus for conviction on, needing only to present each phase of it’s case as more or less holding to one or the other basic principal – that he’s a proven liar who tells two kinds of lies – ones of omission and others of substitution.

Were I the prosecutor, I’d practically pass out free t-shirts to the jury on these three sayings:

Many things are possible; what GZ claims happened is not possible.

When in doubt, George leaves it out.

What George did, he blames on the kid.

Featuring: Willis Newton regarding Zimmerman and the good-cop good-cop interview technique

March 25, 2013

Monday, March 25, 2013

Willis Newton posted an excellent comment at 11:37 pm last night on the open thread regarding the defendant and the good-cop good-cop interview technique.

The only correction that I feel a need to point out is that a criminal defense lawyer would have advised the defendant to shut his mouth. There are no exceptions to that rule.

This full-of-himself intellectually challenged defendant caused irreparable damage to his case when he decided that he could talk his way out of being charged with killing Trayvon Martin. Once he got going, he could not stop and the pièce de résistance was the Shawn Hannity interview.

State’s Attorney Angela Corey and Assistant State’s Attorney Bernie de la Rionda did the right thing when they declined to talk to the defendant as they are ethically prohibited from talking to a defendant represented by counsel, even if the defendant initiates the contact.

George was handled by Serino and Singleton of the SPD in a manner I’d call “good cop/ good cop.” Both tried to be amicable and played to his vanity and let him think they were his “buddies.” This was not because they believed him, it was because this attitude kept George “cooperating” by continuing to make multiple statements without a lawyer present, after being advised of his right to refuse to answer any questions without a lawyer present.

Let me just say this now – anyone, ESPECIALLY innocent people, but anyone, anyone is a fool if you let the cops question you without a lawyer present. They are NOT your friends, no matter how many times they let you go to the bathroom or buy you a cola from a vending machine. They are doing their job, which is to get you to talk yourself into a criminal conviction.

George bought the routine hook line and sinker. He was a fool for giving so many statements, as it became very cleat quickly that he was pushing a false narrative and telling a story that was fraught with inconsistencies, critical omissions and clear contradictions.

One thing he was tricked with was the “voice stress test,” which is a useless and pointless exercise that proves NOTHING and is never admissible in a court of law. George agreed to the test because he thought the cops were believing his lies, and his ego told him that he could and should “talk his way out of this one” since the cops were seemingly sympathetic to his plight. The real and true purpose of the voice stress test was to get George to run through his whole (false) narrative one more time with as little interruption as possible. The “test taker” was simply a new interrogator, but one whose job it was to feign disinterest as he asked George “on background” to relate his tale so the test taker could “set up the voice stress machine.”

Notice that “as they waited for the tester” the cops also let GZ sit around for a long quiet period with detective Singleton. This too is a deliberate session of evidence-gathering that detectives use on a regular basis – put the guy at ease but do anything to keep him from calling a lawyer -just keep him making statements.

She’s being mostly quiet so that he will KEEP talking to fill the uncomfortable silence. It’s here that he made the telling remarks about how “suspects” need to respond to “authority” but that he thinks Singleton “doesn’t have to worry” about that since she has such a commanding presence, or whatever it is that he says exactly. I’m paraphrasing a bit here, but it was a telling moment and I predict will be shown to the jury as part of the overall portrait the prosecution is going to paint to color him as a wanna-be authority figure who had no legal right to profile and pursue a teen to the point where the child fled in terror, and then for GZ to leave his vehicle with a loaded weapon and continue on foot after him into the proverbial “dark alley.”

Whatever the reason the police let him go home that first night, Serino made certain that GZ was going to “keep cooperating.” Letting him go home was a gamble, but one that paid off well since the next day GZ cooperated AGAIN without having a lawyer present and did a “re-eneactment” for the detectives that was less than credible, and again made for several very telling moments that could be presented to a jury to show his lack of credibility at the least. George told provable lies about where he pulled over his car and how his car ended up near the cut thru when he got out of it and started following the teen. Then he massively contradicted his many earlier accounts when he suddenly added the “I must have stumbled” portion of the account of the “first punch” that may or may not have even happened. Each time he’d previously spoke of this alleged blow to his face, he described things like falling backwards, and how he was knocked IMMEDIATELY to the ground before “Trayvon mounted him” as George alleges the teen did. Suddenly George has to insert a 40 foot “stumble” right in the middle of where he wished he could again claim he was knocked to the ground where he stood.

Keep in mind if George had waited for his lawyer to be present, the lawyer would likely advise him to make ONE statement that was carefully crafted and then to refuse to cooperate any further. I’m not certain about this but imagine if GZ had called a lawyer and kept his mouth mostly shut. He may have spent a few nights in jail, but it would be more difficult to impeach his credibility, a key component of his upcoming murder trial. He may have even avoided a trial altogether. His own words are what is going to sink his ship.

After the “re-enactment” the detectives confronted him about his inconsistencies in the harshest session of questioning, but as you listen to the recording keep in mind they are careful to frame their disbelief and harsh questions by mentioning the need for George to “keep his story straight for later” essentially as if what was happening contemporaneously was his “cop buddies” leading him down the path to freedom and insider treatment. They don’t QUITE pull off the whole ruse of buddy-buddy, partially because his lies are too difficult to swallow but also because George is so suspicious and guarded in his words. But the detectives still act as though “this is all just so we can set the record straight” and that George is “gonna be fine probably” etc.

Never do the SPD detectives posture that they are “holding him for questioning.” It’s always that they are “allowing him to make a statement,” or some such polite way of putting things, as though his cooperation is helping them seal the fate of the dead “suspect” who “attacked” him. This is how “good cop/ good cop” works.

Someone in the SPD made the call that George “should be handled with kid gloves” and also let go to sleep in his own bed. It was a pragmatic decision since at the beginning the detectives saw they lacked a good witness to the events from start to finish and that GZ killed the only other person who they thought heard the start of the fight. Keep in mind they had yet to learn that TM was on the phone at the time the fight started.

The fact that George kept in touch with Serino while he was out and not facing a grand jury or criminal charges is a sign that Serino had gained some measure of his trust. Before GZ called Angela Corey he also had been speaking with Serino. I am guessing its likely GZ asked Serino something obsequious like “do you think it might be a good idea if I were to call the state’s attorney and let them know (what a good boy I am) etc?” Serino knew he was pretty much off the case by then but tried to keep the “good cop” ruse going.

Recall the two clown lawyers who weren’t really his lawyers? I also am guessing one of both of them, idiots that they were, knew enough to try to advise George of the folly of trying to consider Angela Corey his new buddy. Whatever the timing and whomever was advising George, he didn’t get his chance to cozy up to the special prosecutor because the state wisely refused to see him at all until he retained a lawyer. He called Corey but she wouldn’t take that call IIRC.

So in answer to the question, “what was he thinking when he tried to see Corey?” I’d say the guess is probably right that he still felt like he could talk his way out the jam he was in. (SO far, so good, he felt.) He’d killed the only real witness to his car-to-pedestrian chase and was fairly sure no one saw how the physical altercation began. Somehow he’d gotten the lucky break of having someone, Shellie probably, move his car away before it could be searched or its location noted. (which way was it facing? He could be lying about that but we don’t know, and we may never know.)

His arrogance is staggering, but his gullibility is as well. IMO Serino did a good job of “handling” George. He may have made other mistakes but in this regard his strategy was a wise one. And the special prosecutor made the wise call that despite George possibly being willing to come make more “statements” that he’s been given enough rope to hang himself with already. They knew the statements he’d given the SPD and they felt they had enough already to paint him as the two-bit liar that he is.

If Serino ever gets a book deal, I’ll buy his book. He’d got things to answer for, but keep in mind he looked into GZ’s eyes and read his body language, heard his story, walked the grounds with him and then looked again into his eyes as George was confronted with the NEN call recording and several of his contradictory statements. If anyone in the world knows whether or not to believe GZ it’s detective Chris Serino, who wanted to charge him with murder and was willing to settle for manslaughter but NEVER felt GZ was in the clear.

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