Friday, July 5, 2013
Good morning:
Court will resume this morning at 8:30 am EDT.
The prosecution probably will rest is case today.
I am expecting the Assistant Medical Examiner, Dr. Bao, who did the autopsy. Expect graphic and gruesome photos. If you aren’t into that, you may want to cover your screen and listen.
Also expecting the State to call a wind-up witness, possibly FDLE Detective Gilbreath to connect all the dots with charts, diagrams and timelines.
Sybrina Fulton may also testify to identify Trayvon’s voice. If she does, expect Don West to do his best to impeach her credibility by accusing her of being a bad parent and bringing up the lawsuit against the HOA.
Here’s the link to the livestream coverage.
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbcnews.com/52117880/
See you in court.
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Frederick Leatherman Law Blog 
mom doesn’t come off sincere, he’s wasting time here, trying to make his hired help seem legit.
So anyone seen o manic presser ?
New post up:
Judge Debra Nelson denies defense motion for judgment of acquittal
Why would Fogen be screaming for his life in the home?? These people are liars
Maybe he caught sight of his own reflection..
Because they’re a family or liars. That’s why. Their lies are so transparent, until a child could see through them.
hahaha!!!
can someone please explain to me why the defense is doing a press conference…….
Perks of the trade
Its called mugging it up for the cameras.
An alsp propa ganger an advertiseing .
Lile yesterday M O M done a half hour audition of his knowlage of pressure needed on various pistols.
Nothing to do with a kal tech or his cllients defence.
But it ws letting the criminals know.
Hey if ever you need a lawere for finger power required to make a gun go bang.
Then In your man.
I missed Sabrina what was She like?
@Lonnie Starr:
A portrait of grace, intelligence and quiet dignity. She answered each stupid question put to her by MOM and even managed to remain civil to MOM, after this man deliberately lied on her son, I do not know if I would have remained so civil to him. and I could see that she was trying to not get irritated by his stupid questions.
Sybrina explained that she has been employed at the same company for 24 years (she works for the city I believe,(like I do) but has held several positions. She is on a leave of absence at this time. She has her BA degree. Her older son is a Senior in College and he is also very intelligent, articulate and handsome. When asked about his father, he stated that Tracy is the only father that he has known. This young man is 22 yrs. old and a Senior in college. Fogen-28 years old. 8 years in college living off of Pell Grants and being rejected by several police depts, due to his being a freak! Fogen, never completed college and was on academic probation. Fogen was staring daggers at Sybrina’a older son. The family is a middle class, educated family who love one another and they are close.
God bless the Fulton/Martin family.
This entire family have robotic tendencies.
Gladice as an ear witness o m g
Desprate much
Cant wait for cross
As it will be She who gets cross
@colin black:
Mama Z is a bold faced liar! She knows that is not her son screaming! She said he sounded in anguish. The anguish was the kid and she knows it! How do these people live with themselves. The jury will not believe her or the uncle! LIES! I hate all of them! The DA needed to bring up the letter Mama Z wrote to the Martin family! It was terrible! Why would Fogen be screaming for his life in the home?? These people are liars!
The defense did not look happy
fooggagge never screamed
foggagge cursed an qoueted biblical quotes
foggagge taunted teased terrified an murdered a CHILD an enjoyed it an basked in the spotlight of imfamy
Just as the saying goes in the foggagge family tree incest all right as long as you keep it in the Family.
But after a while its realatively boreing.
Yippy!
Circmstanial Defence?
No evidence that he followed???
Are you following him
Yes.
Not mastermind murderer
A predater of fear circumstance an insanity.
OMG, When is MOM going to wrap this up! He is saying a lot of nothing and repeating himself. Your client is a cold blooded murderer! So sick of them already.
@colin black:
You took the words right our of my mouth! I am incredulous at what MOM is saying!! The DA was masterful! I could see Fogen giving evil looks when he was speaking. An acquittal? Is he mad?? When is MOM going to STHU already?? He is as bad as West! I am sick of them all, and JN will deny the motion which i just heard BTW! YEAHHHHH!
Good afternoon everyone. I missed watching the trial this morning. Just turned on TV and MOM is arguing for acquittal. Already I think MOM has lost his mind. What happened this morning? Did DA do good?
MOM argues about the ‘hatred’ point.
Remember what Serino asked GZ in his interview? “You have any problems with black people?”
GZ: “No-ho-ho-ho’
Serino responds, you don’t seem to have problems with many people…. then he adds
“…except criminals of course.”
Hatred of criminals, a pattern that would put Trayvon into the ‘group’ he hated because of the pattern of behaviour from August 6, 2011 building through his calls, up until Trayvon’s sighting broke the proverbial camels back.
We also know fogen is capable, (but not the jury’s info at this time) of violence against a woman, a girlfriend, and had demonstrated an act against his own mother, which clearly shows malice, in cutting off her electicity and locking out the box so she had no service.
West just forgot about the dragging, bringing of fogen by Trayvon, of the fight from the T to the place where the shot took place, that fogen dropped his flashlight he had in his hand when he was hit, WHERE whatever began, began.
Not by the T, we have the tactical flashlight dropped where the body was found.
Dance MOM, DANCE I said
you can’t talk for the whole hour and you will have to start the case today
He has to have his cone break before they begin their case. The state will have a response to this too, won’t they?
Dr. Bao: in a “real†self defense case 3 wks ago, a person with the same gunshot wound to the heart lived 10 minutes.
******************
Now we understand the significance to Dr. Bao of the autopsy 3 weeks ago. Documentation of the timeline by recordings and time of death, unusual, what Dr. Bao called ‘rare’ opportunity for his field to get these documented observations. He also suggested this is an important case beyond their office, maybe world wide.
Hold on, west is trying to say you can tell range by width of stipling, but West if forgetting the affect of two layers of sweatshirts, which by common sense, means the spray of hot gasses, molton lead etc, that follow the bullet out of the muzzle (as described by firearms tech), can be affected by the thicknesses of the fabric materials, including cotton and synthetics possibly, which can spread the stippling, not simply distance through ‘air’ only.
In Mr. Guy’s opening statement, he used the words “zero contact”. I was wondering where he got that information because the ME’s report in the media dump said intermediate.
But when Ms. Siewert testified, she use the word “contact”. She said the gun was pressed against the shirt, and used the distance between the clothing and the muzzle of the gun.
I think this pathologist explained this since you posted your question. Intermediate is the pathologists’s definition if the range is not indeterminate and if there is not ‘contact with skin’, as in this case, there was clothing between the gun muzzle and the skin.
For the firearms tech, the determination was made by firing the actual ammunition used in the gun and collected that night into evidence as in the clip with the gun, and the actual fabric was used in the testing, by taking samples from the back area of the shirt(s).
Two different things, one on ‘definition’ and the other based on measurements via testing. Contact for the firearms expert, is contact that was on the clothing, not pushed into it, in this case as she observed, but in contact.
The medical examiner has no duty to examine the poor clothing for it’s cause of death or injury.
(mearurements and observations of the effect on the fabric and affect by the presence of fabric, via testing for firearms tech)
Thanks ay2z. I think I’ve got it now.
Pathologist: Visual of body, wound, and clothes
Firearm Tech: Actual ammo and clothing
Am I getting close? đŸ™‚
Go on wit his badself!
The Wiester: “Are you saying Trayvon was able to move his body after he was shot in his heart?
Dr. Bao: “There is only one person in this room who knows”. He looked right over at the confessed murderer!
West getting served up buy ME
The not knowing exact time of abrasions goes for GZ too.
Rachael, one can argue easily, that ‘abberations’ have been an issue with this defendant for some time.
đŸ˜‰
http://dakiniland.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/109020_6001.jpg?w=590&h=463
ha
priceless
Perfect!!
And even fogen can’t sue the cartoonist, the editor or publisher of this drawing, because although the ‘truck’ is grey, that is a night scene, plus there is no back of cab shape of a Honda Ridgeline, plus the logo oval shape is definitely not a ‘Honda’ thing.
This brings me to what I was thinking earlier today about what fogen’s own statements put together, along with the z-line about the injustice of the ‘arrest’ and the ‘injustice’ of letting the justice system work.
(in the bond hearing, fogen testified, and was asked about his career plans
He wanted to be a Judge, ‘to judge’
He wanted to become a prosecutor. ‘to prosecute’
On February 26, 2012 in the early evening hours, he did ‘judge’, he did ‘prosecute’, he did find ‘guilty’ of suspicions and found himself ‘innocent’ of wrong doing.
In the following weeks and months, his defense has helped him claim wrong doing by the ‘real’ justice system, it’s advocates, and even it’s ‘We the People’ (aka what he calls the ‘masses’). He wanted to be allowed to be his own judge and his own ‘jury’.
Anyone believe this defendant really understands or cares about the ‘justice system’? Or was he more interested in running the show, beginning with his sighting of Trayvon that night, and taking the law into his own hands, vigilante mind, and loaded ready-to-fire unsafetied, gun?
He judged, prosecuted, and sentenced Trayvon Benjamin Martin.
He judged himself innocent, prosecuted the justice system, or tried to, by claiming no right for anyone to hold him to account by participation in the justice system, and tried to become his own jury to decide his own culpability as zero.
Short fingernails, no ;bagging’ of hands, scrapings failed to collect or lost what they collected…. defense seems to be going there.
No ‘clippings’ on the list.
But Bao says chief of pathology how to process, clippings or just scrapings poligy. That’s why no clippings if it was policy.
Speculation of why no clippings or why scrapings done, by defense.
I thought he was going to sneak in the picture of someone holding a gun
Apparently, the content of the notes is not a problem. I just hope the Dr. focuses on the testimony, not his “schooling” the court on what is opinion, fact, memory, etc.
Dr. Bao has effectively limited the scope of what the Defense is going to be able to ask him…they now understand not to ask him any questions based on his memory…nor will they be able to claim that he has “changed his mind”…He did a very good job…please don’t be too frustrated by his style…West will try something slick…but it won’t be effective…I’ve been living in Hong Kong for 3 years now…Chinese people are very straight forward and unwavering…Good night…Enjoy!
Thank you for your insight. Medical professionals work very hard at dealing in absolutes. They usually cannot, but they try to remove uncertainty, always.
Holly Molly, many of the the City of Sanford and the Seminole County employee witnesses are the worst. They are all over the place. Poor Bernie.
Thank heavens no jury hearing this THC talk. But, still, this guy is a loose-lipped, loose canon.
West wants to get evidence for civil wrongful death defense – Bao’s notes and changed THC opinion – is my guess.
All of that to say, “MJ could have no affect or some affect”. DUH!
The court’s “Prior ruling on toxicology in state’s motion in Limine… STANDS”.
Toxicology is out.
Dr. Bao does not understand that he doesn’t play legal expert, he has to give his information to the state if he changes something from the deposition?
“THE COURT FINDS ThERE IS NO RICHARDSON VIOLATiON.”
What a folly.
ClickOrlando says they’re still at sidebar.
NBC is well into a Richardson hearing!
Richardson hearing.
I thought Toxicology was banned from court?
From the jury
Let me try this again. The above link was a blunder by me and will be removed. Let’s see if this link works:
http://frederickleatherman.com/2013/07/05/welcome-to-liveblogging-day-9-zimmerman-trial-afternoon-session/
I thought no THC evidence allowed!!
Yes, that is what we are saying as well.
BTW, one minute or ten minutes doesn’t matter.
Is the jury in the room now?
Caught later that this is a Richardson hearing.
I agree, not relevant to criminal case. I think West has wrongful death damages in mind, but this is not the time for that.
Bao is an awful witness, he spends devaluing his own opinion instead of just stating it. He is doing the defense’s job for them.
Awful. Stunningly awful for a medical examiner.
YESS! Dr. Bao just played the retarded card!
Hope the jury is resting up and relaxed until they are called. Could be a long afternoon where they get to exercise their legs a lot.
The defense is trying to find some way of to throw this trial… a mistrial of some sort… I know they are… That is why they say West is their secret weapon… He is trying to find a way to make them mistrial it.
I have a bad feeling about all this shit today. I trust that a select few want Justice and the rest could careless. If he walks the people in Florida bet to keep their kids in at all times. This fool will think this is his license to continue on his violent path.
And put a warning mark on gz’s forehead.
If he walks there needs to be an extensive investigation of Florida, as to why they can’t seem to prosecute murderers.
New post up
New post up:
Welcome to liveblogging day 9 Zimmerman trial (afternoon session)
Here it does not show up on the List of Posts…
Wth is going on that Bernie took an oath on something… Bernie is pissed on something..
I think West and MOM are up to evil tricks and false accusations.
I see it too! Something is going on!
I think Dr. Bao is a very proud and intelligent doctor. For all we know, he may have been a neurosurgeon in China but his credits weren’t accepted in America. I’ve seen this before. That being said, he may feel inferior due to language barriers when he’s on the stand and perhaps been bested before by American attorneys and that’s why he wanted to be prepared for this high profile case. I hope it’s not a big deal. The Talking Heads seem to think it is.
Why is Bernie being put under oath??!!!!
There must be some personal comments to himself, in those notes that Dr. Bao made, that he made for himself perhaps, as reminders, or underlining, for example, that could be fought over as relevant, or to the pathologists state of mind or intent?
there ‘might be’, but since Dr. Bao believed those were his prep notes, not his report and since he obviously beleived they were ‘his’ use and only his use, not his ‘testimony’, he could have assumed his ‘thoughts’ added in to notes were just that, innocent notations.
Very sorry we are a bit late. Had to tend to errands and motorcycle chain. Anxious to see what is going on, and Fred may post a new thread, because nested comments can get lengthy.
I have not been able to watch the trail at all today. Anything interesting with Dr. Bao? What is the sidebar for?
fltv saying Bernie is at the bench swearing to something for the judge… what the hell is going on??
Did she just swear bernie in for something?
YES…. what could it be??
Did Bernie have to take an oath before JN? They raised their right hands.
Hello all. I am a fan of this blog, however I never post. I just wanted to say that whether dr b used his personal notes or not, the facts are still the same. There’s really no way to dispute that. Right?
Can we have a new thread please? This one is taking infernally long to refresh.
Why is BDLR raising his right hand at sidebar?
I was thinking they had to swear that they made no extra copies of Bao’s notes.
I’m afraid defense claims the witness was coached. Just speculation obviously.
I’d speculate that along with you đŸ˜¦
Give it up West. gz is going down:
Sounds plausible. I am still of the opinion that the defendant was holding the gun with one hand, which was his weaker hand and the gun kick backed and hit him in the face making the rectangular cut above the upper lip and below the nose and the two identical sized pinholes at the tip of his nose. Don West mentioned in his opening statement that his client’s gun “had a ton of recoil.” I’m surprised that’s all we have heard about recoil thus far. When West mentioned it, I thought he knew the state was going to go there and was trying to take the wind out of their sails.
back on again… West moving slow again, up at another sidebar.
So was this all just a West of time?
Good pun
Talking heads said today the defense will drag as long as they can to avoid starting today. They really need and want to start Monday. That’s how I knew “Waste” would be doing the questioning.
Like the west of what we’ve heard from him, hopefully
Again, I had time to think about this and I really do believe that Fogen had his gun already out. When Fogen approached Trayvon Martin, he already had his gun in his hand to his side. Trayvon Martin said Oh shit… he turned around said What you following me for he asked… Fogen responded with What are you doing around here… grabbed Trayvon Martin… while Travyon Martin screaming get off of me get off me not necessarily on top of him but Fogen having a hold onto him… like a wrestler does when trying to get his opponent to the ground… and all this time Trayvon Martin is screaming… that is when Fogen shot him… and that is when Trayvon Martin fell to his knees and I believe that Trayvon Martin’s as he is falling down is when his head hit Fogen’s nose such as a head butt to the face… and threw George onto the concrete pavement one time and that’s how Trayvon Martin landed face down with hands underneath him. Fogen panicked that is why one of the witnesses saw him walking back n forth to the pet recepticle like 3 times with his hand on his head to figuring what he needed to say…
Okay I went back and listened to Anthony Gorgone on cross- the sweatshirts when he recieved them were packaged in a bio-hazard plastic bag that wasn’t sealed with tape, but tied in a knot. It came to him that way from the trace evidence section. That biohazard plastic bag was inside a brown paper bag. The outer sweatshirt had an odor and was damp/wet.
West is going to cling to this like flies on shit.
Eh, let him go on forever. If the bagging ruined the DNA, it would have ruined all of it, not some of it selectively.
I agree, I just hope the state points that out!
yes
Dr. Bao gave them some more shit to stir by talking about this in the first place. NOT HIS AREA. And BDLR should have objected for that reason as well. Bao is a doctor, not a lawyer, his first mistake is thinking he can outsmart someone in their element. West cannot tell Bao how to do an autopsy, Bao cannot out-lawyer a lawyer. This is where being an arrogant witness can hurt the state, its not about Dr. Bao.
Beating does not have to be disproven because injuries were “very insignificant”
Even if there was DNA on Trayvon Martin, that would not support self-defense in view of the fact that Fogen was not seriously injured.
This is a red herring being chased by a cone-head.
Fact is, there was DNA successfully obtained where expected, more in some areas and less or unidentifiable in others. Doesn’t mean that it was degraded from original by mould.
In fact, the cotton in the shirts could be degraded by mould as well. That didn’t happen, no holes instead of blood stains.
DNA can’t be that fragile if there were a certain level of results, can’t throw everything out on some speculation of mildew smell. The test results are what counts now.
Oh I agree, I just want the state to point that out.
Gorgone said the three of them ( the guy he got the shirts from and the person he passed them on to, did their “things” over a matter of hours, not days. I’m wondering if the shirts were first placed the shirts in plastic after he finished, just before passing them on to Gorgone, in which case they would have been in plastic for only a short period of time, and if so, does it make a difference?
Perhaps they need to call “Tech/Handler No. 1” to the stand.
Good afternoon everyone. Been a long morning. Looking forward to catching up. Hear that the ME is not real fond of West, from the glimpses I got of CNN, while sitting in the waiting room.
This thread is getting too long again.
I don’t know what is the problem if somebody prepare personal notes.
Does not every witness make mental notes? He got them on paper that’s all.
Having said that, his behavior is extremely surprising from an experiment expert.
It will depend on what is on the notes. We will know soon enough.
And don’t they take videos like in the pics and tv series for a shooting ? If not does anyone else think they should ?
I guess a witness is supposed to be recounting what he witnessed.
If the witness has amnesia then he is not really a… well witness.
If all he remembers is that he wrote a report then this is all he can do.
If he relies on notes then it is important to understand what is in in case those notes are note from the witness.
Not so tchoupi, at least not here in the UK where, iirc, witnesses are allowed notes, diaries, etc. if they need to recall, sometimes many years after the event. That said, I wondered why they don’t video tape autopsies of homicides at least. Wikipedia gave me the answer, i.e.:
So Florida unfortunately is not one of those states.
It may also because his English is not fluent.
I noticed that the defense tried to say Jahvarus gave impeached testimony – I’m still listening, doesn’t sound like they were successful. A55wipes.
Defense failed
Yes, finally finished. Whew.
This crap the defense is pulling with the dna and hand bagging is pissing me off. DNA use to not be used, bags over hands used to not be used. This is all smoke and mirrors to blame blame blame but not to blame the person who put the bullet in Trayvon’s heart.
The button. What is up with the buttlon? Could it have a palm print or Fogen’s fingerprints? Did he grab and hold onto as he fired a shot into Trayvon’s chest?
The bulletholes were underneath the button, indicating the hoodie and sweatshirt might have been pulled by GZ, or that he made a point to move the button out of the way to shoot.
Thing is, if this was going to be a high profile case known by Dr. Bao from the moment he arrived for autopsy, cameras flashing at his arrival, as if a high profile person was killed and the press were in hot pursuit, he could have been aware that this was a memorable case. This was not what happened. Ordinary John Doe autopsy, he did his routine, made his report, followed protocols and that was it. Report was the basis of any future recall necessary.
Exactly.
As for Bao and his notes, lets give credit where credit is due. Shouldn’t BDLR known it was against court rules to read from notes? I’m not happy with the State at this moment.
As somebody mentioned upthread, I don’t think it’s against court rules
Did Bernie know he had notes prior to anyone else knowing about the notes?
Judge Debra Nelson to the Defendant as they left for recess:
“George, got any extra Temazepam you can give me. I’m having an anxiety attack!”
Lol!
i am moved to type this. And thank you LLMP for your video above. To me one thing I take away from Sybrina’s presence on the stand is this:
She is to be remembered in infamy as another American woman did. Jackie Kennedy. Just as Jackie stood for a nation so did Sybrina.
Sybrina’s regal composure in containing her gut wrenching agony; her overwhelming dignity and grace to speak for all Americans and most of all…. every parent, is so beyond words.
God bless this woman and mother. She has so much to teach us all about unconditional love and dignity.
(Typed through tears)
Amen.
God bless her.
Yes. She was the picture of poise.
I will never have the grace she does. But, I will spend my life trying.
She will be remembered as a pillar of strength.
This is from an Orlando Sentinel reporter that has been in court everyday. Her tweets are quick & balanced. @renestutzman: These notes may have nothing to do w/ #Trayvon’s autopsy. They may be about how the mind cannot remember things, but a huge distraction
There you go. Nothing material. Just a reminder to himself.
What makes you think Rene Stutzman is balanced? She has been for gz from the start. Lawrence O’Donnell reamed her on national tv for reporting her opinion, favorable to gz, as fact in her newspaper. Shes a yellow journalist-full of shit.
Rene stutzman is responsible for revealing that Trayvon was suspended from school for having an empty marijuana bag. She was leaked the info by the Sanford PD, and claimed that she reported it because there was very little known at the time about Trayvon. She is pro-Fogen, and reported his version about the murder as fact, in many instances. There is nothing balanced about that squinty, man-faced ass.
LucaBella- well said! UNbalanced would be a better description.
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
To be fair, iirc, she didn’t start out that way, so maybe she was “turned” by her editor and/or “the powers that be” at the paper. After all, there probably isn’t that great a market for her skills in that area, so she’s got to toe the line. After all, soon this case will be over and she will still need employment. Unlike the big people [Rush, Hannity etc] the little people are terribly insecure and must put food on the family table.
She probably feels “hey, if I don’t eat they’ll still get their story out, so what’s in a crusade?”
Knock knock.
Who’s there?
Shiping.
Shiping who?
You have to be shiping me!
Question please for anyone who knows…. did the DNA expert testify he took wet clothing out of a plastic bag? Does anyone remember what he said in that regard?
If you’re referring to Anthony Gorgone, yes. He said the clothing was first handled by Mr. Goosman, then Ms. Siewert, then himself. He said this would have occurred in a matter of a couple of hours, not days or weeks.
Thank you, but who put the sweatshirts in the bio-hazard plastic bag that then went inside the paper bag? (I just listened to Gorgone’s testimony again, and posted about it…. I hope this isn’t going to be a problem.
Not only that, but Trayvon was murdered on a sunday evening & they got the clothing on Monday. Its not like it was in the plastice bag for a week. It seems like it was less than 24 hrs.
Yes, he said the shirts were in plastic bags, still wet or damp, and smelled.
Only the outer sweatshirt had an odor.
@chi1224
You are correct.
Click to access trayvon.martin.autopsy.pdf
Page 36 of 262
IIRC, Tracey Martin left some boxes in the garage with clothing for Trayvon to rummage through. I always believe that odor came from clothes being stored in a garage. If I find the discovery dump page regarding that information, will post.
This sounds realistic.
@Mrs.X
Thank you.
Chi, I agree; you are correct.
Knock knock.
Who’s there?
Bao.
Bao who?
Bao to my authoritah, cone-lick man!
Now that is good. đŸ˜†
@Whonoze
You are in rare form today, my friend. đŸ™‚
It seems to me that Dr. Bao is very, very, very, very very concerned about and focused on the distinctions between and the importance of fact and first hand knowledge vs. opinion and hearsay, and about ‘explaining things to/teaching the jury” – almost to a fault. I hope he doesn’t continue to go overboard/talk too much, and I hope Bernie can effectively handle the “wet clothes in the plastic bag/integrity of the evidence” issue.
Unfortunately, it seems to me that two of the witnesses (the ME and Rachel) who had some of the most compelling factual testimony have what some perceive to be “presentation/style/attitude” issues. I hope the jurors can objectively deal with the importance of “substance over form”.
However, I remain hopeful that justice will be served.
I’m sure the CTH thinks Dr. Bao’s notes WERE written by someone else: and you know who!
Did Bao said he spent hundreds of hours reviewing the case?
This Dr is a loose cannon as Tzar wrote in premonition.
BGI? Crump? Duh. The de-fense is in-defensible.
Dr Bao and DeeDee are FB friends?
My mom just brought out my dad’s wallet that he last used before he died. She’d taken everything else out of it, but he had a battered, over fifty-year-old pic of me inside. *tears*
I just listened to Sybrina’s testimony for the first time. She was powerful and dignified – just what I expected.
awww…….beautiful
How sweet.
Really touched me.
American culture is very invasive. Americans have a very different attitude to personal privacy. I know when I first moved to the US, I was shocked about the kind of questions people would ask me.
My grandfather was Chinese. It is interesting how you inherit certain social norms. The mixed Dutch/ Chinese part of my family, would feel uncomfortable with the Dutch invasiveness and their lack of respect for personal privacy. But compared to American culture, Dutch culture is very private.
I think what we are watching here is dr. Bao feeling West is treating him without respect. For Chinese people that is loss of face.
He didn’t remember the autopsy, he knows he is dealing with a high profile case, so he probably spend hours preparing for this case.
I am sure he wanted his English to be as clear as possible, that is probably why he has written down a narrative of what he was going to testify to.
This must be so embarrassing to him. Close to being told to undress on national tv.
Please know I don’t have any information-this is just speculation. I think Dr. B is a religious man. He takes the oath very seriously. I hope Bernie and team are able to get the point across that he’s careful because he wants to be accurate.
Honor.
yes
He takes his job very seriously. I think he wrote a narrative to not make mistakes while speaking. His active English may not be as good as he wishes it to be, especially while speaking on live tv. I think his notes will show prepared responses, not because of his lack of knowledge in his profession but because of his lack of fluency in the English language.
This must be so embarrassing for him.
We are super-nosey. And then we are super-judgmental about what our super-nosiness reveals.
I really dislike that about our American culture.
Well you get used to it, and then you find out that it is not really about sharing intimate details, but you just have to give the right answers.
Did you notice Dr. Bao mentioning he came here to pursuit the American dream?
When I first moved to the US and someone whom I just met would ask me, wat my reasons were for coming to the US, I would be a bit shocked why some stranger would ask me such a personal question. In the beginning I would attempt to formulate what my reasons were, but I learned quite fast, that the people who asked me were not really interested in a personal answer, they just wanted me to confirm their own belief why people move to the US. So after a while you just learn to give the right answer, which in this case is ” to pursuit the American dream”.
American social interactions, are very superficial. Maybe because of that, not much deviance is allowed. Don’t get me wrong, I am not talking about American people as individuals. As individuals they are no different than any other nationality, good or bad.
I agree.
I agree with your assessment, amsterdam.
again…..West’s elitism and inability to relate to those of backgrounds other than his own.
Shades of his treatment of Rachel.
I agree, and now if it wasn’t already clear before today, then it is perfectly clear today. The force that is going against this whole case and trial has a lot to do with cultural differences and one’s inability to explain or to accept things as they are. Everything from Trayvon, to Selene, to Rachel, and now Shiping Bao. Of course the defense is playing stupid and playing into the hands of the jurors who mostly appear to look like them. The reason why they are confident and that we’re supposed to be afraid, is that they don’t care if it’s 5 guilty verdicts vs 1 innocent, that would still exonerate Zimmerman. Only one other person needs to see it their way if they can’t understand the cultural differences and unfortunately some Americans here also don’t understand.
You nailed it, YQ.
That might explain why it’s easy for some of those Americans to believe that Trayvon circled back around to hit Zimmerman with his bag of snacks still in hand. It’s not easy for them to believe what the minute details are showing. Zimmerman wanted to catch the kid and there is no way on earth that it’s him screaming.
Good assessment. Americans seem to think everyone behaves as they do. Many Americans live in a cultural bubble more so than whites in other parts of the world.
I personally think that Dr. Bao lacks self-confidence. He needs to prepare before doing anything. What I see is panic under the stress of the testimony.
I don’t buy the cultural explanation since I worked with none-Chinese people lacking self-confidence and the other way I worked with very assertive Chinese individuals too.
One point I want to make, people lacking confidence in technical environments/jobs tend to be very procedural. So, I would tend to believe that he follows the procedures. Unfortunately, when they communicate, they can be very defensive and then give the impression that the hide something wrong.
I wrote a post during direct with BLDR was I expressed my concern about Dr. Bao volunteering to much talking and therefore being an easy target for West. West did not miss it. He made him more nervous and he simply panicked.
I agree, but what I mean by cultural, generally speaking “it is what it is” with the Chinese and some of them don’t deal with speculation because it’s not fact. Sure that Bao was nervous but he probably deals with people not being able to understand him without asking him a few times. I just think that he wanted to be clear and concise so that his testimony isn’t misunderstood. Much of what he was saying up until that point appeared to be what could have been said without notes but obviously he doesn’t recall very well. I find that to be realistic.
Tchoupi,
I recognize loss of face. That is one of the biggest differences between Asian culture and Western culture. Of course there are individual differences and you may be right that he is just insecure, but him protesting about his notes, was about loss of face.
I liked the way Br. Bao said “Black Boy” too Sleuth. The prosecution and their witnesses need to say “The Kid” as many times as possible. Keep hammering it.
I thought W6 recanted the MMA raining down blows on Fogen by Trayvon. the talking head idiots on MSNBC keep saying this as if he is still sticking to that story.
That’s because for some strange reason the state didn’t bring it up.
The state wanted W6’s most damning testimony to be seen byt the jury as something THEY called for. W6 is to them, at present, a witness the prosecution called. He said he did NOT see or hear any blows being struck at any time. He says he DID see hands going down.
Were the state to dig into his seeming “evolving” testimony, they would be calling into question AT THAT TIME and in front of the jury the events they want to present – that the witness never saw and never heard blows to the defendant.
Now, when the DEFENSE calls W6, and they may, THEN the prosecution can call into question his evolving testimony. That is because the defense will be attempting to highlight the parts favorable to the defense at that time.
It’s a tactic to get the things that may seem favorable to the defense out in the open while the state is presenting its’ case I assume.
I believe their reason was to NOT have a rat to chase down THAT hole. WHO told him to say “MMA punches raining down”? My guess: Either Fogen himself, Tim Smith or Serino. Nobody wants to go there in case it was Smith or Serino.
Tragic
IDK what’s going on, but I can understand why Dr. Bao doesn’t remember this autospy. MEs see stuff that no one wants to remember. So part of his profession hinges on being able to shut out those horrible instances so that he can continue to function and do his job. I hope that there is nothing damaging in those notes to self.
He probably refers to the duh-fense counsel as The Bald Dick and The Rat-Faced Dick in his personal notes.
LOL possibly so… I never testified with notes but in this case, i think it works hand-in-hand with Dr. Bao’s memory loss. Therefore he functions on his notes and that might make him more effective with his duties. I don’t think MEs want to remember every single autospy they have ever done. That would be enough to drive even a grizzly bear bezerk.
He’s really not expected to remember. He’s supposed to refer to the notes he made during the autopsy. So when they ask him, for example, how tall was Trayvon Martin, he’s not supposed to say, I don’t remember, it was so long ago. He’s supposed to look at his reports and say 158 pounds.
Guess it was God’s Plan to destroy all evidence except that which proves fogen guilty as sin.
đŸ˜€
Thank you! This selective rain and contamination stuff is plainly nonsense. The ME brought up some good points about what he did during the autopsy and about TM’s condition. The rest is a fishing expedition.
ha ha ha ha
I really appreciated it when Dr. Bao stated:
1. “A black BOY”
2. “A dead person cannot stand up”
3. “A dead body does not continue to grow”
All of which, are quite contrary to what the duhfense would like for the jury to believe.
They want the jury to believe:
1. Trayvon Benjamin Martin was a grown man
2. He sat/stood up after being shot in the heart
3. That he was 6’3″ and much heavier than 158lbs.
Yes, he used “boy” exclusively when respectfully referring to the deceased. At least three times.
It’s not like O’Mara and West is doing a good job,all they are doing is picking off the mistakes the State is giving them. Dam Dam Dam!
Interesting…. The NBC feed is “ahead” of others. I’ve noticed before that the NBC stream was about 30 seconds ahead of TV coverage that my husband was watching.
This morning, I was watching NBC … until their video started getting ahead of the audio. So I switched to ClickOrlando, and I heard about 5 minutes (maybe more?) of the same exchanges that I had already heard on the NBC feed.
yes I’m watching WESH on a mobile device and noted the same thing. WESH is at least 15 secs behind NBC, which I often have running on my laptop.
If you watch NBC and want an instant replay , switch quickly to WESH.
Sadly WESH has talking heads filling in whenever things slow down and they often talk over Judge Nelson. They are also the usual misinformed talking head types who are doing their best but are no where near as informed as most bloggers on reputable, moderated sites.
Yes. I hate the talking heads, weather updates, etc. on the other feeds. When there’s a bench conference, I like NBC’s silence while I go about my work. When I hear sound, then I know it’s multi-tasking time again!
But maybe NBC’s extra-short lag time is what gets their video and audio out of sync?
(BTW, I’ve done that “instant replay” trick, too!)
Me too. I moved to http://www.WFTV.com/s/zimmerman-livestream/ and voice and video were in sync.
The TV stations delay the broadcast so they can edit out profanity and racial slurs.
And wardrobe malfunctions.
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ot. My niece is teaching in China for a month. She became ill and needed a procedure and followup. She was flabbergasted. Her doctor spoke directly to her, looked her in the eye. His words were translated for her, but it was clear that he was talking to HER, not the translator. She indicated that it was the best medical experience she’s ever had (not that any of them good, but you know what I mean).
CFL Media The O’Mara Law Group informed the court they do NOT
plan to hold a press conference after court ends today.
hmmmm?????
retweeted by Kathy Belich WFTV
they have depositions scheduled I think. Plus of course there will be material presented today most likely that they are unprepared to answer questions about. BIG questions. Questions they may NEVER be able to address well.
@willisnewton well then, its’ about time management and they choose carefully.
doubt that they will realize time spent in front of the cameras was not as important as actually working on the case itself.
i began thinking that some of omars’ interview were for pay. leaving ice cream at the helm. thats’ a no brainer he wastes time
@willisnewton
they have depositions scheduled, yes that is correct.
a bit late for that. however, they may need those depos when JN denies that move for acquittal.
Truly JM looked so weak. West almost took the notes by force. I mean he was very aggressive. She let that go!
west has the law clearly on his side in wanting to see the notes, copy the notes and review the notes. Imagine if a witness was GIVEN notes by a third party! This is a serious issue and deserves to be handled very carefully according to the law.
West may have a shot at a mistrial on a longshot here. I doubt it but the judge is on the spot as to how she handles this.
Mistrial? How so? These seem to be his personal notes.
according to _him_ they are his personal notes. If west were able to PROVE he was given notes by a third party he’s at minimum be able to get a jury instruction to strike the testimony. On the other end of the spectrum he’d have reason to argue that the state has called a witness who was under the instruction of an outside party, possibly even the prosecution itself to testify in a manner directed by the prosecution.
I’m not saying this is what will happen, but merely saying that this is a serious issue and the JUDGE is on the spot here.
That is a longshot.
I am hoping these are very basic notes, and that is all. w was foaming at the mouth to get ahold of them.
Of course they were, always putting on a show.
Yes willisNewton, i can’t believe the this way was done. I wrote suitcase, i meant briefcase of course.
What’s next? West will ask a witness can i see what you have in your briefcase? No It’s personal. Doesn’t matter, i look anyway.
JN looked extremely weak. There are gone with the EM notes. I just can’t believe that,
I saw an attorney demand a witness’s handbag in one idiotic trial in TX; the witness handed it over and the atty. took out the woman’s check book and began to question her on every check she wrote!
he’s suppose to remember detail from preparation of 1 autopsy 17 months ago? ha .
I’m sure they have procedures how to prep a body and what to do with clothes. Bernie needs to have him explain that.
The defense lawyers seem to forget the Jurors are watching , and listening to them, .
When they ask him if this or that happened, they’re not really asking if he personally remembers. He’s supposed to look at the contemporaneous notes he took and answer according to what he wrote down at the time.
They have the reports.
Yes, they have the reports. But the only way to get those reports in front of the jury is through witness testimony. The lawyers can’t testify because nothing the lawyers say is evidence. That’s one of the peculiarities of our trial system.
The State did not admit the autopsy reports?
He’s not coming across as a seasoned expert witness lol but I think the notes he is referring to are about memory and why he cant remember specific autopsies. BDLR needs to do a quick recap of the perinent stuff and get him off the stand.
“Pressuring eyewitnesses to answer questions about an event, when they indicate that they do not know the answer, can result in false confabulations.” http://www.cgu.edu/PDFFiles/sbos/Pezdek_Confabulation.pdf
Bottom line: He is not going to let them put words in his mouth based on his memory of many months ago…I’d say if the court allows it…things will be just fine…Professor…any reason to believe this is “improper” in terms of courtroom procedure? ie. Will it cause a mistrial or anything like that?
đŸ™‚ Thanks
You are welcome đŸ™‚
This is exactly what the defense is trying to do. they ask the same question over in different ways, in order to confuse the witness to the point of them answering in their favor.
It’s the same things they tried with Dr. Rao last week but she wasn’t having any of it.
If you remember, just like Dr. Bao did today, she asserted on several occasions stating, “That’s your opinion, but it’s not my testimony” or something to that affect.
They are not going to be bullied by them,
Dr. Rao was great. More experience in courts, I’d assume, she wasn’t having any of West’s tricks.
This is what he is referring to: “Forced confabulation more strongly influences event memory if suggestions are other-generated
than self-generated” – Layman’s terms…memory can be affected by conversation. http://www.cgu.edu/PDFFiles/sbos/Pezdek_Confabulation.pdf
many years ago when i owned my own word processing/transcription service in san francisco, i typed a doctoral thesis for a chinese national. he was fiercely protective of his private work, insisted on receiving a disk of the final project and watching me delete it from his hard drive. i found it peculiar, but he explained that in china he really did not ‘own’ his private work, that the government could confiscate his writings at any time, and that he was protective of it. i would submit there is a cultural thing going on here and it does not surprise me
Thanks for that specific background.
I have to go out in a couple of hours, so will miss several hours of testimony, but my gut is telling me that the State will not be able to rest today.
I’ll stay around and bite my nails. I am worried. Hope this works out better than it looks.
Lunch with mom and sissy. Can’t say no. The trial has reminded me over and over again to love the ones I still have whenever I can.
Have a lovely lunch with your dear ones.
Thank you, Gwynee.
Thank you mccoy. Now it makes perfect sense why he’s being so protective. I hope the jury doesn’t see his actions in a neg. way. I think West knows about the cultural thing & exploited it on purpose.
Thanks for that info.
Thats very interesting. I’m sure if west knew that he would use the information to do what he could to make Dr. Bao uncomfortable or hurt him. smh
Very on point. Hopefully a talking head somewhere will realize this as well. Imagine being of Chinese origin and coming to the USA only to have your personal notes taken away by authorities in court, and given to someone who is charged with questioning your professionalism.
Bet he expected this treatment in China but not here! I’m with him.
Thanks faux for the great insight. I was so hoping his notes were written in his native tongue.
I believe The Wiester (weasel) and O’Dirty aren’t going to gleam much from them without having to ask over and over…….”What do you mean when you write, “A dead person cannot stand up, or grow, etc.
I am confused, and my feed keeps cutting out. Are these notes the doctor took during the autopsy? Or soon after? Because, they are confidential then.
These are notes he made in preparation for his testimony. Most likely after a grueling deposition by West.
People are unfairly dissing Dr. Bao, not respecting the Cultural Difference of Chinese Medical Examiners.
exactly — see my comment 2 posts below.
I was thinking it is a cultural thing as well. He may have been a witness before but, I think with his broken English, which is in no way a bad thing, most of those cases would have just tried to extract to facts from him. Seems like he uses notes and probably has used them on prior cases. Here, you have a defense who has nothing so is trying to blame possible police mishandling on his office. I’d be a little defensive too.
Remember. Dr Bao works with dead people. They don’t usually complain.
Agreed.
He’s been here 20 years. This is not some herb “doctor” they found in Chinatown. He’s a state official.
Feel free to disrespect “herb ‘doctor[s]’ in Chinatown” though. It’s not like you are a “legitimate” commenter or anything.
MedcineBear~ I prefer curanderos or shamans. How about you?;)
Yes, and that is why he is getting upset. He is used to being treated with respect. My feed keeps cutting out but West was asking him questions and not allowing him to answer, correct?
C’mon now, that’s a bit much. What is it with you and this witness? It seems personal.
Yes, I am a bit upset about his lack of professionalism on the stand. The prosecution has been bedeviled by poor quality witnesses. As a witness, how you present what you know is as important as what you know.
I hear what you are saying but disagree. They have not been “Law and Order” perfect but neither is the jury or the lawyers. They are real people who have provided factual information and told the truth. If you look beyond the defense’s hysterics and surface none of them have been impeached.
The defense is left arguing about magical rain and selective bacteria eating only certain DNA.
Ks- you noticed that,too ?
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It’s just more of the same from the Korrupt Krypt Keepers disrespecting, demeaning, discounting of their non-white inferiors.
Laughing while reading through his personal notes for chrissakes!
How is this fair that his personal notes get copied and passed around? How about we get copies of the lawiars yellow pad notes and fogen’s doodles?!!!!
We see how people treated Rachael, many were adamant about her cultural difference to the point of disrespect. One example the cone heads girls
yep…..more of the same
i also noticed that duh-fense treat witnesses differently especially if there are non-white, i find them to be rude, omar gives them stern mean looks and ice cream sparky just don’t give a damn how he questions come across.
I have to respectfully disagree with the two of youz guys, Bao should be a professional AMERICAN testifier by now and should understand court decorum and what helps vs. hurts his appearance of smoothness and impartiality.
Thank you! That’s what I’m saying. He’s coming across as if it’s the first time he testifies in court.
I’d say that depends on experience in the court system and the type of experience, this is a high profile criminal case. He is not equivalent to Dr. Lee in ‘expert experience’ of being a high priced ‘pay for testimony’ pathologist. Dr. Bao vs someone like Lee, brings objectivity. He’s not a hired gun of the defense nor of the state with built in biases towards one side or the other, nor does he profit from this.
I am glad you see it that way
I had that type of analysis with Dee Dee because she is not expected to be a professional testifier but I don’t feel the same way about Bao. I hope that most see it the way you do.
I didn’t like that either, Tzar, and I am blaming FDLE. Prepare your witnesses, you lazy-ass crackers!
Yes. He is learning about his new freedoms. He wants to do only what is right.
Has anyone seen this? Sundance Films– Chinese artist Ai Weiwei’s film “Never Sorry”
“I don’t want the next generation to fight as I did”.
http://aiweiweineversorry.com/
Off topic, but this is the oppression that Dr. Bao has experienced. Listen and read the movie clip as to what Ai says about experiencing freedom means.
Lunch break, and it looks like um…war between Ice Cream and Dr. Bao. The notes in question are not part of the original report. They are notes that Dr. Bao made personally, during many hours of research and review that he did, prior to testifying. For example, he explained that he researched, and took notes on, memory, and the types of memory. In other words, memory does not improve with time.
I fear that the defense will be celebrating after court today, will soft-serve pseudo ice ‘cream’ cones all around.
Cone heads.
Oh, I forgot about the coneheads! Yes.
When DNA expert testified he had his own things with him on the
witness stand and they didn’t demand to see those!
Noon recess until 1 pm EDT.
West has opened a hole in the State;s case about wet clothing and DNA degradation that the State must close.
They need to recall Gorgone.
They also need to find out who packaged to send to the state later.
Agree. The note about the mold smell when the bag was opened was a professional complaint that has relevance.
However it’s clear that the plastic bag did not allow the degradation of SOME of the DNA evidence found.
It doesn’t seem to be the fault of this witness however that a piece of evidence may have been improperly bagged.
If the jury were to “follow” (or go in same direction) as West may be going, the idea would be that a very important piece of evidence, the hoodie, may have had GZ’s DNA on it but it degraded after being improperly handled.
THIs is at least somewhat serious of an argument, and the judge is sitting in a tough spot.
Yet, how could gz’s blood be on the lower sleeves anyway?…….it was not on Trayvon’s hands.
And, Trayvon’s hands (and body) were covered by a plastic tarp within @20 minutes of the shooting. That would have provided protection.
The state should have closed that yesterday. Mr. Gorgone found very few “I.can’t tell” pieces of DNA, the great majority were quite clear so this suggests little to no contamination. Furthermore, Gorgone found DNA on Martin’s sleeves but none of it was foreign to Martin. So how the hell did.the elements know to only eat up Zimmerman’s DNA? If this hole is opened in the jurors minds after the state excused their DNA witness yesterday, then again, they have no one to blame except themselves.
Exactly! That is why I think this thing is rigged. The State hasn’t had one good moment after their opening statements that were so grand and sweeping but they haven’t proved one thing that they claimed they would. BDLR asks the bare minimal questions,then the defense wrecks havoc on cross, and then BDLR has a weak follow up. The States case isn’t weak but they don’t seem to know what to do with it.
It’s not true that they haven’t provided what they said they would they just don’t know how to question their own witnesses and dont know how to object when the defense brings up testimony not produced during direct.
And after all these years of experience, Why is that? Why, after being in a field for decades would an attorney not know how to question witnesses?
Eric- surely you left your brains in your other pants. Don’t you have a treehouse to go play in?
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
They’re doing fine but they will need to recall Gorgone. The cross-examinations have been largely WORSE than useless because although they have proved nothing and have not really challenged any of the evidence, they have probably alienated most of the jurors. THAT’s dangerous.
Didn’t Gorgone talk about air drying in testimony yesterday?
Yes he did. And testified that he was not the one to package these items, they arrived to him this way.
SPD processed and packaged.
no you can not, they are my notes dammit.
gumby dammit!
Anybody think Dr. Bao will break out with a “That’s real retarded!” to one of West’s questions?
he has, in essence done that already.
Rachel is only second to Sybrina in how well she held up on cross. Clearly those are the two smartest witnesses for.the State. The third is Ms. Surdyka. All of the other witnesses seemed to crumble under the heat of cross with the absolute best example of the crumbling being Selene Bahadoor. Lets hope Dr. Bao doesn’t either take first or come in a close second.
let us not forget dr. roa, the forensic medical expert who gave west absolutely nothing, tolerated none of his bullshit and stood her ground.
Dr. Rao was forgettable.with her fist to the face demonstrated which has allowed the defense to go from “he was nearly killed” to “okay he wasnt nearly killed he decided to kill Martin before it got worse.”
That is a new line of defense the state’s on witness helped introduce. Its still a fail.
BS tasha
Have you see the pic of his head since she.got off the stand? No you have not so while she was affective in shutting the door on the severity of his injuries she opened the door to the idea tha he didn’t have to wait until it got worse once he was hit which West explored during his cross of the SYG instructor. In the closing arguments this will come up again. Not my fault that you’re missing stuff here and I dont particularly like you so stop responding to and finding a way to disagree with everything I type.
Tasha- you make disagreeing with you SO EASY! What exactly has she opened up? An already debunked idea that the “next” punch would kill him? If DNA proves there was no first punch, how can a next lunch kill him? You like to play around in the weeds of the hypothetical. Trials are based on the pragmatic “what most likely happened” scenario. You are far out in left field, while meanwhile we’re playing tackle football!
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
The “new line of defense” = a retreat.
The defense went from:
Trayvon ambushed and attacked Fogen
to
Trayvon sucker-punched Fogen and beat hell outa him
to
Trayvon got one good punch in on Fogen
to
Trayvon was GONNA punch Fogen real soon
to
What if Trayvon had done something to get hisseff killed, ever think about that?
Every single bit of evidence that has gone in has made them take another step back and retreat again.
And they STARTED in retreat by not having a SYG hearing.
Daddy didn’t “killit”; Daddy’s CLIENT killed a KID.
How many ways to say that in Mandarin?
Geeze, how many ways for pathologists to bring ‘oranges’ into a case.
đŸ˜¦
Don’t think he recognized that ‘the American dream’ means you do lose some liberties inside a court of law, like he just learned before lunch. ‘His’ notes are really not ‘his’ notes to decide who can and can not read them.
OMG what did he write that is funny? Are they going to use his notes against him now?
no you can not!!! oh geez haha
jodi~ I understand that, though.
________________________________
Judge Nelson looks dummy in all this. This was his personnel notes.
They have no right. It is like he wants to look in suitcase of every witness.
I don’t get it either….
Professor can you help us understand this?
I remember hearing of someone who witnessed some vandalism done with a vehicle to public property and the witness took the tag number down at the time, on piece of paper available at that time and place. The lawyer for this small case, happened to be an excellent criminal defense trial lawyer who would take these sorts of cases in the small community in which he was based. Not his typical case anywhere else, but if petty criminals or vandals or kids with parents wanted them to get off for bad acts, they could hire this better than average lawyer to do that.
The witness was a friend of this lawyer. So the lawyer took advantage to casually visit and ask one simple question about the note that the witness made about the event and with that, he won his case. Simple, the witness transferred the note of the tag number from the paper used at the time to his notebook and failed to keep the original to prove without doubt, the tag recorded exactly.
The defense has their opportunity to blow this apart. I’m betting this pathologist has never testified in any court before, and he’s offering far too much.
Bernie should have never allowed him to bring added documentation into court, or into his testimony? Now he can’t go talk to him.
Ay2z – I highly doubt what you state is true re: how harmful thus is to the prosecution. They have his reports and now they have his notes. So what?
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
They are sleazy. Sleazy. Sleazy.
Gawd… Freddy Kruger delaying again.
Remember the song that goes…Gimme just a little more time….?
I don’t think this is proper. I believe witness testimony is supposed to be spontaneous, not read from a prepared “cheat sheet” of notes, even if the witness typed it up the night before.
I also think Dr. Bao is being a little too pigheaded when he emphasizes that he has no memory of events but is simply going by his contemporary notes. Well, contemporary notes are a recording of one’s memories. It’s a pedantic distinction that’s not helpful.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with it, he is trying to be accurate. I mean so what if he uses notes? I don’t get why it’s a big deal, but maybe I am missing something because I’m not a lawyer…..
No, experts read from their notes all the time. You’d know this if you were a lawyer.
So notes are okay?
@RobertSF – you clearly seem to have bias with this witness. I don’t see state or defense getting up there asking questions “off memory”….they use personal notes!
Medical examiners use notes at trial. They don’t speak off the top of their butts.
I think you’re wrong. Dr. Bao is being asked to testify about his official autopsy of Trayvon’s body over 17 months ago. Naturally, he’s going to rely on the official photos taken during that autopsy and on his report. Whatever personal notes he made recently to aid him during his testimony in court need not be any more ‘sponaneous’ than the ones the prosecution and defense attorneys frequently refer to, especially tha members of the defense team. Don West has trouble recalling questions he hasn’t even finished asking yet!
Dr. Bao is trying to be accurate when he says that he has bo specific memory of the autopsy in question. At the time, I’m sure he considered it just one of many homicide autopsies he’d performed, and had no way of anticipating that this case would become the focus of so much controversy and national attention.
Folks, my point is that these aren’t notes he prepared during the course of doing the autopsy. The notes are a cookbook of prepared answers in anticipation of certain questions. The problem with that is that he might have sat down with somebody to figure out what the best answer was for a question. That would be a form of coaching, and it’s not allowed. In any case, the judge allowed them, but both sides get to see the notes.
Would serve West right if his notes were in Chinese
handwritten Chinese characters
At least one school in High Point, N.C has made Mandarin a requirement for Kindergarten and some elementary grades. … an option with other languages after that.
One of my bro’s friends has a half-Korean daughter in a Cali school that teaches the kids multiple languages in kindergarten. Last I heard she was learning Spanish, Chinese and French. And picking languages up really fast at that age. In public school, we didn’t get much exposure to languages until middle school, except for a few brief forays into Spanish and French that were not consistent and interrupted by other work. Not sure what the interruptions were about. I always regretted not being able to immerse myself with a fresh young brain.
Its really hard. We have it at my school too, & I took a few classes before I dropped it.
This is not a good development.
For future reference, someone needs to teach this man how to testify.
I agree. But he has testified before. So he should know.
So Tzar and I were correct about what we picked up on direct.
Hopefully nothing will come of it except West and OM wasting more time.
I’ve got a worried feeling on this. This physician specialist has taken this case SO seriously, he’s adding complications. Simple, he doesn’t remember the specific case because he’s done many many cases before and after, and he was not expecting this one to become an international ‘event’, especially when it took him 3 seconds to know the bullet entered and did not leave the body.
West may have a goldmine handed to him by this Dr., when he started his cross this morning, had little prospects of more than pyrites.
NEVER give an attorney the chance to drive a spike between original and your later notations. Especially if he’s got notes about ‘memory’ research to create even more big holes.
Question is, how can anyone reach him now, as he’s still on the stand, unless he has a legal advisor who can help him understand he doesn’t drive this bus?
I am stunned by this development, professor. It would have never occurred to me that he was clueless about how to testify.
Totally stunned.
I agree, Professor. And that someone should have been BDLR or someone from his office. In reference to ALL his witnesses. Rachel Jeantel’s atty says that the prosecuting team did no prep/vetting of her at all.
http://blackamericaweb.com/142401/trayvon-martin-was-one-of-the-few-guys-who-didnt-tease-rachel-jeantel-rod-vereen/
this would be someone that BDLR has never worked with before, since it is out of his usual district. ME’s seem to be appointed by the governor (according to testimony by dr. rao previously) but whoever his supervisor is needs to work with him on presentation. it’s entirely possible BDLR had no clue upon deposition that this would even be an issue.
Every decent lawyer preps every single witness, period, no exceptions, that’s IT. No way around that. WTF?
sounds like they met recently to discuss testimony — but what the hell can you do with someone like this? it’s unfortunate.
This is what Dr. Bao is referring to: “Pressuring eyewitnesses to answer questions about an event, when they indicate that they do not know the answer, can result in false confabulations.†http://www.cgu.edu/PDFFiles/sbos/Pezdek_Confabulation.pdf
Professor…any reason to believe this is “improper†in terms of courtroom procedure? ie. Will it cause a mistrial or anything like that?
I don’t know what West thinks he can get out of this. Professor, have you ever seen defense attorneys do this to medical examiners? This is bizarre.
“Is there something funny there” asks Dr. Bao, as the two unbelievably rude defense lawyers openly laugh at his personal notes, in open court.
Now that’s funny. West and OM are pathetic, though.
Dr. Bao sense of courtroom decorum is about as good as DeeDee on her first day of testimony
True, but he has no excuse. He’s supposed to be a professional.
I wonder how many times he has testified in court, i imagine it is quite a bit, so I really don’t get why he doesn’t seem to know how the sausage is made.
ME sounds defensive.
hahahahaha is there something funny there …lord have mercy this is killing me…poor guy has tried so hard to be a good witness and they just don’t know how to take him….
But haven’t we already heard from one expert a few days back that at least two pieces of Trayvon’s clothing were packaged separately each in a plastic bag and then the two plastic bags placed in a paper bag ?
Right. But. that could have been done by the trace evidence guy, who is the person that the witness had gotten the clothing from.
the other way around. they were first put in paper bags and the paper bags were put in plastic.
If you tell me which day and testimony BK I may check that because I could have sworn it was the other way… but then it could be the Alzheimer creeping up!
@gbrbsb — my memory is the same as yours. two items (hoodie and undershirt) placed in separate biohazard bags and then inside a paper bag.
the question of course is when did the get put into plastic. ultimately, i doubt it had an effect on evidence, but does give west a hole to poke ‘reasonable doubt’ all he wishes.
Thnx Faux. I don’t think type of bagging affected either, as I seem to recall the way the samples went it would have had to have been selective degradation on one and not the other which is ridiculous.
bettykath, sorry to trouble but my for some unknown reason my ip address is apparently being flagged up as spam by the spam guard so for the past two days any comments I make unless replying to a blogger’s reply to me on the notifications page they do not register on the page.
According to WP the owner of the blog has to approve (accept) at least one of my comments in the spam box and I will be free. It worked on Xena’s so she knows what to do. Xena, Faux, Cielo I think they’ve all emailed the professor to no avail.
You may not get this and it may not work either but I am posting to as many as bloggers I can because if you all reply to any of the professor’s or Cranes’s posts with my plight I could be vocal again.
Dr. Bao would like to do an autopsy on West and MOM!!!
Dr Bao is trying to say this notes are 100% accurate as opposed to his memory of a case he dealt with 17 months ago. West is using the OJ paybook…evidence improperly packaged stored and that damn rain washed away everything that doesnt support Zimmerman.
“Is there something funny there?”
He asked if there is something funny there?
Doesn’t matter if it’s MOM or West, I can’t listen to the Cream Team cross examinations without wanting to break something.
Does that make me a bad person ?
Hell no!
That’s just wrong giving West his notes! Now he’ll know what not to ask! I’m stunned JN allowed this.
It would of been something if he typed his notes in his native tongue.
Sounds to me like defense counsel were d*cks to Bao during deposition, and he came ready not to have words put into his mouth at trial.
That’s plausible. It would explain Rachel’s demeanor.
You are probably so right. He knows their game & came prepared. He dislikes them because hes already been bullied by them.
oh lordy.
So the man who can’t remember what he said 2 seconds ago is attempting to discredit a man who can’t remember in detail what he did 1 1/2 years ago?
Crazy
Hilarious, right? “Processing…”
i hope to god his personal notes are written in mardarin
LOL
faux mccoy~ LOL! Still I would think that personal notes are just bullet points for memory. Not likely to have anything new in them.
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hahaha i was thinking that too.
Zing!
đŸ™‚
Is Dr. Bao going rogue with this personal ‘investigation’ into memory?
Is this a can or worms?
I could be best friends with Dr. Bao.
Dr. Bao says, if anyone packaged wet clothing, they would be fired.
Professor what is your take on Dr. Bao?
We know that the spouse of Tim Smith, SPD, was the technician processing items documented at the scene. Did she package the items from paper to plastic without drying?
But in the end, DNA did survive. DNA survives much worse conditions.
This witness, Dr. Bao, isn’t very experienced in court procedure. He should never have been allowed to get his opinion about ‘memory’ facts in, great for defense, I would think.
Talk about overthinking, with best of intentions to be ‘perfect’ possibly.
Bernie did have a good smile over one point where Dr. Bao took West to school.
Ms. Smith would not have had the clothing I think.
He shouldn’t even gone down that bunny trail with West. He examined the body fresh off the ground and that’s were his expertise starts and ends.
I work with people from all over the world 5 days a week.I hear all kinds of english. it’s funny hearing this. West needs to shut up and listen
Someone tampered with evidence. But it could have gone to the trace/ brush man in paper and repackaged in plastic.
west….it is easy…..he performs the autopsy on the body, that’s all he can answer to.
Are homicide autopsies ever videotaped? … Is this likely to become part of the gruesome procedure just to offset nonsense like this?
Trained Observer~ I believed that each one was videotaped. Maybe I was wrong?
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Got a point there TO, no video tape of an autopsy ?
oh shit…was it packaged in plastic?
That seems to be the claim.
When the forensics guy received them they were in plastic. But he received them from the trace evidence guy, who might have received them in paper but put them in plastic to transfer to forensics. He is nit-picking because he knows the trace guy was not there to testify how he received them.
“there are no plastic bags, except the body bag”
So who does he think open the packages and put them in plastic bags? Going from misconduct from technicians.
Maybe West should be asking one of his assistants ?
He is trying to say he has a medical issue with his memory…
I think he’s saying in a roundabout way that he can’t remember every single autopsy he does.
exactly — if martin’s autopsy was the 43rd for the year on 2/27/12 — how many has dr. bao completed since? he is making a valid point, that no one could answer with absolute accuracy, which as a scientist he is obliged to do, based on memory alone.
Which I hope will give credence to why he prepared notes in anticipation of his testimony. Hopefully his notes totally align with his report.
I can see why Bao wouldn’t remember every single detail of every single autopsy he’s done. West is trying to make him seem incompetent.
That is why they document it.
Yet Westlicker can’t even remember his immediate preceding question and needs to court stenography to read it back.
LOL. Good point.
Ahhh! Plastic bag, degraded DNA!
Degraded DNA for one person but not the other !
but they still found gz blood/dna on Trayvon’s hoodie
but NO gz dna/blood on Trayvon’s lower sleeves
OMGOODNESS!!! Pest is getting on my last nerve! He need to go get some more dayum ice cream! UGH!
This guy is very real. The autopsy was well over a year ago. He does autopsies all the time, it makes sense he would not recall the specifics, and he rightfully relies on his report.
West filibustering !
Where is West going with his line of questioning besides the fact that the hands weren’t bagged.
I can’t tolerate listening to ‘mr. Don’… I mute the sound and read you alls comments and the short summery that HLN flashes on the screen.
I thought it was just me, LMAO
Add me to the list of those who can’t tolerate this PEST.
West is trying to setup playing the rain card.
Looks like it didn’t work.
Is it customary for the hands of the victim to be bagged? I thought that was only customary in cases of, the possibility of checking for gun powder residue and, not for the presence of DNA of the person who committed the crime against the victim.
I can’t see how some of West’s questions are even pertinent. Perhaps interesting, but why does knowledge of autopsy procedures help the jury.
West trying to nit pick. Not going to work, West.
“as soon as we open the bag we see the body”
This witness is somehow so refreshing to me
This is unbelievable! I am LMAO!
đŸ˜†
Can Dr Boa perform an autopsy (vivisection) on DW to help the jury understand better?
yes please.
uhoh~ that would be cool!
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Chill Dr. Bao.
Why do you think so much blood went into Trayvon’s lungs?
ans: could it be that someone was compressing his abdominal aorta and inferior vena cava (via valsava compression) by sitting on him?
More likely because Trayvon’s lung was destroyed. The blood that usually goes through the lung to be purified went instead into the pleural cavity.
that does not make sense anatomically the bullet only hit part of the right lower lobe.
with all due respect Robert, that seems wholly irrelevant to my point and physiologically incorrect.
Let me clarify
the blood took the path of least resistance because something was compressing the abdominal aorta which has a pretty wide caliber (nearly as wide if not wider than the bullet hole in the lung). Point is George may have hasten the death of an immobile 17yo by jumping on top of him and causing his lungs to rapidly fill up with blood.
Also, when the bullet went through the left ventricle and the fragment went through the lower lobe of the right lung, the heart kept beating blood into the lungs.
The bullet caused a huge hole in the ventricle and pericardium. That is what frangible bullets do – shred tissue. As a result, the heart, although still beating, can not provide any pressure to extremities – it just vents blood into the chest cavity. This means that Trayvon had to collapse the instant after being shot in that the brain has no pressure to support higher functions. The heart will still get a beat signal from the brain stem (primal function) till it dies from lack of blood. That’s why Bao is adamant about Trayvon not being able to move. I bring this up because the morons who back Z will use the “he was alive for up to 10 minutes” as proof that the story about getting up, saying some words was true.
Actually, this testimony should be the nail In GZ’s coffin.
the left lung was deflated by bullet fragments, heart continued to pump blood into the pleural cavity until the right lung deflated as well due to pressure from internal bleeding.
With 2 holes in it, the heart pumped the blood in the lungs.
The aortic trunk is about as wide and remains more so mechanically patent than the bullet hole that in posterior wall of the heart that lead into the pleural/pneumonic space.
edit: you know what? I see a problem with my logic, the pleral cavity and lung space because of their capacity-containing only air- had almost zero resistance and given enough time would fill up with blood.
However George sitting on top of him would certainly increase the pressure/resistance gradient between the lung space and the aortic trunk and therefore would hasten he egress of blood into the lungs.
thus i still think George helped force blood into the lungs after he shot this kid.
LOL Love, love, love him.
Let’s hope he stands his ground the entire time. Also Martin was face down so any blood on his hands would have been preserved under his body. After he was turned over he MP’s were standing over him, shielding him from the rain. In other news Fogen had supernatural blood that the rain didn’t wash the back of his head.
Precisely!
Hey, West-of-time, Ask him if he understands English! Throw your pen!
shut up west
LOL West is going nuts!
x2
I love Dr Bao
I don’t. This is not about upsetting West. It’s about being credible before the jury, and he’s coming across very unprofessionally. It’s bad enough that his English is so poor, and his inability to answer questions responsively makes him look worse.
I disagree. He doesn’t want words put in his mouth, and he doesn’t want there to be an appearance of his staff doing anything improperly.
He also doesn’t want to get tricked into agreeing to something he isn’t or hasn’t said like those with better English.
I actually respectfully disagree with you. I am not having any issue with the language.
Crane~ agree with you. Everything he is saying is that he puts everything in his report and refuses to just use memory. Robert has no confidence in this ME.
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@RobertSF – that is a very poor mischaracterization of this witness.
No, he answers responsively, he just not allowing West to assert nonsense.
Did West bound his hand on the podium again?
Professor, didn’t GZ say that TM was trying to smother him by putting all of hsi wait on his mouth and nose? And this happened right before the shot because GZ said in his initial interview with the police that TM took his hand off of his mouth to go for the gun? How could GZ be screaming?
let me ANSWER…LOL
Let the meltdown begin!!!
And let it be west.
I have no desire to see this. But it’s important i guess. West will ask insanely convoluted questions and pretend to get affirmative answers, and WILL get some affirmative answers.
welcome to my mind
Love Dr Bao, he certainly appears to be a guy who cares about telling the TRUTH under oath.
West is failing with this guy.
Teresa Malphurs from the MEs office arrived at the scene at 2144 hours. She left at 2210
He was shot and he was dead.
ROFLMFAO: He is actually going to try to do the ‘rain’ argument.
next question from west: “can you read english?”
Hahahaha!!!
haha see bernie smile at west…he doesn’t even need to object because his witness is nobodies fool
West trying to raise a doubt to the jury that any blood on Trayvon’s hands could have been washed away by the rain. He forgets blood couldn’t have washed off Trayvon’s clothing with the rain.
Plus his hands were under him. If there was that much of a certain element on his hands, it would’ve gotten on his clothing or been preserved on one side (the body side) and possibly washed off on the ground side, but no guarantee of being 100% washed off.
Good point… if Trayvon had GZ’s blood/DNA on his hands it would have transferred to his hoodie when he clutched his chest.
I wonder if West is going to bound on the podium again?
Bwahahaha! Dr, Bao! Dr. Bao! He is stomping west’s game. Hes not getting caught up in it. Good for him!
đŸ˜†
BDLR is loving this!
“Do you understand?” He’s going Dee Dee up on his ass!
“Do you understand? I’m under oath I can’t give you wrong information, do you understand?”
I’m loving this expert.
west is as dumb as dumb as a box full of bricks…guy in the back is loving it haha
LMOA I am cracking up.
Love Dr. Bao!
I guess Pest is trying to say, that somebody destroyed the DNA from Fogen that may have been present on Trayvon’s hands. this man makes me sick.
Trayvon’s body was covered within @20minutes of the shooting with a plastic tarp
This would have kept rain off
I hope that is brought out, because I’m sick of this “rain washed off the blood” BS
And before the tarp was put on the body he had LEO’s leaning over him trying to resuscitate him.
Witness to Ice Cream: “Do you understand?”
Priceless.
So lick that and swallow, Mr. West.
I am rolling over here! omg…. love this guy giving West the smack down!!
another “do you understand?” to mr. don. LOVE IT!
Mr. West – You are an asshat.
This guy will not put up with West’s bullshit… “this is not my evidence”
haha
Love Bao.
So West is also racist towards Asians!
Seems to be.
When he opened the bag, the hands were not bagged.
BWA-hahaHA!
Faced. Right out of the box, on the standards for bagging.
Ha! Get him Bao. You cannot use plastic bags on the hands fewl.
West can’t help being an ass.
Here we go…
Ice Cream is going to put on a medical hat and try to take on a pathologist.
Good luck with all that, Ice Cream.
I can picture him wearing one of those paper crisp white soda jerk hats. Maybe even with red ink trim!
Anything to do with medicine? Not so much.
I hate him more every day
An average heart pumps 1.3 gallons (5 liters) per minute.
[from wiki answers]
What?! The prosecution is done with the ME
Oh dear Lord God.
It’s Ice Cream.
Court is back in session.
Cross by West.
Court is back in session, jury is present, gallery standing.
Still no testimony about the alignment of the holes in the sweatshirts with the entrance wound.
I have been expecting Dr. Bao to testify about that since he likely is the only witness who would have noticed that they didn’t align.
It is not his job.
The other witness (forgot his name) did the work on the clothing.
so here we go then …. defense: but the scratch could have been made from grazing across someones nose….there are a total of 3 abrasions….could that have been from 3 different contacts…but it iiiiis possible….and had Trayvon Martin used his open hand to repeatedly hit the defendant then that wouldn’t show up any abrasions now would it, so it iiiiiis possible that Martin hit him….although Trayvon Martin is right handed and that would be his preferred hand…it iiiiiis possible he decided to use his left hand only when punching the defendant while using his right hand to smother….if we cut off Trayvons right hand then what hand does that leave for punching? is it the left hand?….so you agree if trayvon martin didn’t have a right hand then it is possible he punched with his left hand…..and iiiiis it possible that upon grabbing the gun that george zimmerman had to wrestle from him that that may have caused these insignificant injuries to his left pinky? but it iiiiiiis possible.
jodi~Â LOL! What? Did you see their notes?
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Jodi, I kind of really love you.
blushing
elle~ but not “that way”…. (being bad, sorry!)
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Gotta love such quick wit! That was freaking hysterical!
LOL! Yes, they sound that ridiculous.
How did you get West’s cross examination notes!?!
What is NOT possible is.that you approach and engage.someone.with the intent to kill.them and use your weakest hand to get the job done.
On another note: Why keep mentioning stipling and not define exactly what it is?
tasha~ he did. It’s the tattoo burning from gunpowder. That is what he said earlier.
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Okay. thanks
@Tasha,
Instinctively, GZ used his dominant left hand for the grab & hold of Trayvon’s shirts. GZ shoots right-handed like most lefties do – for shell ejection. Actually, a Kel-Tek PF9 is lightweight and flimsy and should be fired two-handed.
But Zimmerman’s other hand was otherwise occupied at that time.
And that is when Dr. Bao should say ” what you talking bout willis”
I think the smartest move for the defense is to get dr. Bao of the stand as fast as possible.
I don’t think that’s possible if w is doing the cross.
Oh I’m looking forward to West versus Bao!
West can and will ask a great deal of leading and confused/ obfuscating questions. He’s also going to want to run out the clock at least until lunch, if not a great deal more.
His goal here will be to use the “Chewbacca defense” and just try to confuse every issue as much as possible and distance the jury from actual facts and medical opinion. He will try to get this ME flustered and combative I’d imagine to discredit him in the only way he can – on a personal and professional level.
It will be a sick, sad spectacle I fear. Bit in the end nothing will come of it.
I’m sure West won’t miss an opportunity to be a condescending asshole. But dr. Boa is a loose canon.
I love all of you!
You are compassionate people who have supported justice for Trayvon with many hours of tireless work, evidence analysis, and posts advocating for Trayvon!!
Bless you all!
right back at you. Let’s hope the state continues to do it’s job here and is able to present a strong case. We’ve seen that they have the evidence, and presented it. Now they gotta tie it all together.
YAHTC~ Yhea, we ARE pretty cool, huh?
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x a million! And, you too YAHTC.
Right back at cha hon
Will there be testimony about alignment? Yes, or no?
Not on direct from Bao. Maybe from Gilbreth?
Okay, thank you.
This was devastating for the defense.
@Amsterdam1234
Totally!
x2
Yes! Fogen is being exposed for the vile, sickening liar that he is. I just hope the jury is paying attention.
type1juve~ Oh he IS being exposed, he IS! đŸ™‚
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again,again,and again,think that will be closing argument
Only he said that Trayvon was saying “ow ow” in the end. Interesting.
Yes, it was.
10 minute recess. Resume at 11:25 am EDT
Ice Cream wanted a recess, so the Court is in recess for 10 minutes.
Westing more time.
Gonna be an interesting cross. w will drone on like he’s talking to his accountant about his taxes…in between slurps of water.
Dr. B will be attentive, respectful. I get the feeling he cares about the victims, and works hard to give an accurate picture of what happened to the jury.
Ice cream takes a recess like a losing coach takes a timeout to stem the tide.
yep.
So he’s not going to ask if he was talking?
I think BDLR deliberately didn’t ask that so as to let the defense make worse fools of themselves by asking. It’s GZ’s story, let them push it and have Bao smack them down.
West needs a recess, LOL
@chi1224
Ha! Bao came out swinging! The state left the most damaging aspect of the case for the end, good job on their part. Lasting impression on the jury. Mother and ME.
West needs a new vocation.
The abrasion to the ring finger could have happened up to 2 hours before the shooting, during the shooting or after the shooting as he fell to the ground.
“like a scratch to the skin”
Wasn’t bleeding
Abrasion to the pinkie too small to express any opinion about cause or when..
BODY FELL TO THE GROUND AFTER THE SHOT (Bao)
+ no other wounds to his hands = no punching
I understand the concerns, and I hope he continues to be a good witness. What I especially like, though, is that he makes it pretty easy for jurors to take notes. If they are paying attention, he highlights important points with pauses and spellings. It’s like a class.
But it isn’t a class.
well, I’m assuming the finer points of what a ME does and how he goes about his work it is new territory to the jurors.
in China ,boy children are highly prized and adored
And, doctors are held in the very highest regard.
So much for the made-up ‘bloody knuckles’ reports/theory. That didn’t happen.
Yes indeed CranStation, bloody knuckles lie was one that O’dirty was more than proud to get up front of GOD, the court and, the world to proclaim as fact, that this kid had bloody injured knuckles. I don’t see how this POS will be allowed to get away with this murder of a child.
Bernie gets in how thorough the finger nail scraping procedure is!
yes
Wednesday the defense tried to imply that “fingernail” labeled on the scrapings bag meant only one fingernail from each hand was scraped. I even heard a talking head lawyer on MSNBC (the obligatory stealth defense cheerleader) repeat that. Come on, “fingernail” on the label is short for “fingernail scrapings.” As if they would scrape only one.
Would that have been Lisa Bloom by any chance? she appears to me at times to be a Fogen groupie.
Yeah, her. She looks like she belongs on Fox.
Dr. Bao said when he “fell” to the ground. Wow!
sssshhh
abrasion = superficial injury to skin, very minor
Abrasion on finger did not bleed, blood still inside capillary
1/4 inch by 1/8 inch
West is going to have a breakdown on cross….. he should just pass
I agree. West, at times, confuses himself. So he’ll have a meltdown when Bao talks about facts and not fantastical hypotheticals.
Yep, he is already sweating
yeah he should out, pass out face first right into the podium, busting his lip breaking his dentures oh and leaving a big ole egg knot on his forehead…..
jackass
I think Dr. Bao is a Hottie
me too. He’s got attitude, too.
X2
X3 đŸ™‚
X4 đŸ™‚
x3
Most smart guys are.
Compassion is VERY hot.
I disagree with people criticizing him. Dammit, this trial has been seriously lacking anyone from the damn SPD who got riled that this man killed an unarmed child. It’s good for the jury to realize that it’s ok to be upset at something so horrible.
Actually I like him, I agree with you. West is NOT going to rattle this guy!
Uni — you’ll get no disagreement from me. Certain evidence that Bao uncovered brings the right for any sane human being to be incensed.
But that can turn the jury against the state. Trials are supposed to be impartial, and witnesses are not supposed to be advocates.
I doubt that. If the jury is turned off by an ME who got upset when cutting up a dead kid, they’re as whacked as Zimmerman.
Very peculiar for both police witnesses to be defense-friendly and angry at the prosecution, too. This guy is great.
You would think they would be able to determine by what time Trayvon had actually passed by the time of the shot and the time the first policeman tested for pulse. If that used 10 mins or more IDK.
Raimondo found no pulse ~5min after gunshot
Fogen sees and hears the clock ticking.
I want to hear his opinion on the “you got me” stuff. Hope it’s coming up soon.
not to be blunt, but unable to move would include not being able to move mouth, lips and tongue to articulate words. there is a reason screaming stopped at gunshot.
He doesn’t believe TM could have moved after the shot, but he could have been conscious for up to 10 minutes.
How awful those last minutes must have been.
bloody hell,omg
When I read the autopsy, it was my opinion that damage to the heart and pericardium caused a catastrophic loss of blood pressure such that standing was impossible. It became a pump with a huge hole that vented blood into Trayvons chest. That said, Trayvon probably instantly passed out, and pitched face down into the grass where he remained. This testimony should be the nail in GZ’s coffin. How does a man with no blood pressure to his brain get up, say some remarks straight out of cheap crime film, step three paces back and then collapse?
GZ shot Travon from a standing position as he (Trayvon) was trying to back away with GZ pulling on the hem of the hoodie with his left hand.
It explains the scream.
What would a boy do when a man has him by the shirt with his left hand and a gun in his right pointed at his chest?
GZ is a self serving, despicable coward.
MDH~ Yes, he couldn’t stand up at all, so HOW would he manage to stumble some 40 feet down to towards the T where the body was found? Yeah, right. gz is toast.
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He doesn’t believe Tm could move which correlates with witnesses statements besides Selma seeing some leg movements
tch~ leg movements are probably involuntary muscle spasm as a person dies.
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I fully agree. I actually mean that TM did not need to be restrained as GZ told police.
He could not move after being shot. That’s important.
what no sitting up or pivoting
YES! NO SITTING UP & NO TALKING!
Precisely!
No “still struggling and cussing.”
I heard that remember fogen claim he spread his arm apart.
Bao is a loose cannon unwilling to be led by his own attorney
this should be the most interesting cross yet.
Tzar~ WHy is everybody saying this? I don’t see a loose anything. Bao is making sure he being understood.
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I agree with you, cielo
I agree too.
that’s his attorney’s job as well
I agree Tzar. Let’s hope cross proves us wrong.
This M.E. is telling it like it is.
ME: no fact, zero opinion about body position.
Doesn’t believe he can move after being shot, but could feel pain
đŸ˜¥
*tears* this is so very upsetting
I know…. the jury needs to hear it though
The Defense will not have fun with this guy…he is going to clarify himself…they will not be able to manipulate his words…
I think he’ll do well.
He’ll do well if he can make heads or tails of west’s 35 word run on questions. No one has really been able to totally figure out what the hell hes asking or talking about.
Due to the intermediary target (2 sweatshirts) it’s difficult to estimate the distance from muzzle to entrance wound.
He calls it loose contact shot.
could loose contact shot be that the material was not touching the skin as opposed to the material being loose/flowing….perhaps it could still have been being held onto
He may be stressing a bit too much that this is just his “opinion”, because when West get’s his oar in he will make mincemeat of it!
not really. It’s his expert opinion based on his long experience. THe jury will understand that. Also, where can west really go with this? GZ shot the kid and everyone knows it.
He’ll want to know whether someone can speak after this kind of traumatic wound.
I was referring more as to how West is going to lay into him because his stressing so often it is only his opinion could give the idea that he is not very sure of his findings.
OTOH, and IDK and IMBW, but I’m wondering if the defence’s expert will try to be much more precise about the timing of the finger wounds, i.e. at the time of the altercation, while a lot less precise about gun distance, i.e. that it was further away than the State claimed in opening, i.e. that GZ pressed the gun right up to Trayvon’s chest. Just musing !
the pain!,he was drowning in his own blood……aye carumba
ME is a good teacher, I think.
Ok, it is what it is, I guess, but Dr. Bao is a loose cannon. It looks like this is his first rodeo.
But he has testified at other trials. So he should know better.
Sophia~ dont see the problem. As a minority himself, maybe he needs to be forceful to be taken seriously. I like his assertiveness.
________________________________
I like his assertiveness, but he has to follow the rules and should let BDLR lead him a little too.
So do I.
I agree neighbor. I like his delivery & I like how he takes over đŸ™‚ Plus he has made me feel MUCH more confident about Trayvon getting justice. Trayvon deserves justice. That all we want.
Ms. X~ YES! He’s tying together all the loose threads people have been wanting to see!
________________________________
I like him! He’s sincere, detailed, and thorough — exactly what you want in his role.
I actually think he’s OK. These jurors are more accustomed to seeing TV crime-show trials than real trials. They probably respond very well to this. I think it’s really hitting home, what Fogen did, what happened that night, how depraved, how malicious, how murderous. Trayvon’s dead body spoke to the witness through his autopsy. I think this is OK, if unusual. But then again, isn’t the whole trial unusual?
could be a cultural issue. But yes, he is not the usual expert witness.
Robert what a stupid thing to say.
________________________________
However it looks, in reality it ain’t.
what the hell is Bao doing?
This witness is feisty
This witness needs to be in control.
might not be a bad thing, West better take a tranquilizer now
I think what the jury sees is an expert witness trying to clarify for them and the duh-fense not pleased and trying to interrupt.
Boa! Is excited! He wants to make sure that the jury understand what a monster GZ is.
@Sophia33
YES
But he’s not supposed to do that. He’s just there to give a professional opinion.
I know. I hope he calms down.
Was alive from 1 to 10 minutes after he was shot. No chance to survive the wound.
heart kept beating until no blood left to pump.
1700 mi of blood found in L pleural cavity, 1000 ml in the R pleural cavity.
shot from intermediate range (0.4 inches to 4 feet)
Explains why Fogen was so desperate to establish that he needed help restraining as he pushed air out of this doomed teen’s lungs
… is there an extra penalty for such depravity?
ME Bao: “100 persent confidence it was intermediate range”
It’s some comfort to know Trayvon could not have survived for ten minutes since the police arrived within a minute of the shot, and almost immediately determined Trayvon had no pulse.
They are proving Fogen was holding onto the hoodie as Trayvon was trying to get away when he shot
@chi1224
Yep.
@chi1224
@blushed brown
Agreed – Fogen grasping Tray’s sweatshirts “because these assholes, they always get away.”
he would have heard them talking of calibers and wondering why is no one trying to save me….this is officially the first time i have literally cried during this trial.
i hope he was unconscious at least
Trayvon had 3 Liters of blood in his chest when he died. For reference, the average human has about 5 Liters of blood in entire body. GZ should fry!
and that is how you know he was not talking
there was no blood coming out of his mouth
That gun shot drained all of the blood from the heart and all of this blood was allowed to collect in the chest walls. This is so sad, how the hell did Zimmerman not know he shot this kid and on top of that he laid on top of him and spread his legs out. The witnesses were out there standing and talking to him all while he was laying there dying.
@riisey
Zimmerman claimed he spread Trayvon’s arms (not legs). A lie. Jon Manolo photographed body within 30 seconds of the shot. Tray facing down, hands under body at chest level (clutching chest instinctively when shot, I expect.
Legs together. Both feet in same direction – head turned in oppo direction.
straight shot
Trayvon suffered.
*tears*
with gz on his back!!!!!!
He did, and I’m glad this ME said that to the jury, for up to 10 minutes!
I hope it rings in their ears all night & over the weekend. Mr. wanna be police officer didn’t render any service at all.
depraved
This shows why gz wanted to be police officer & what he planned to do with it. He didn’t want to help old ladies across the street or get cats out of trees, He wanted to have power over people & make them do what he said. He wanted to dominate & control people. He wanted to shoot people.
Ms X~ Yep! A power freak to destroy.
________________________________
@Ms. X:
I had stated that TM could have lived for a few seconds after being shot. A few of the Physicians that I work with also stated that to me as well. how the hell was TM able to sit up and yell, ‘YOU GOT ME!” When he was slowly dying and blood was filling his lungs drowning him?? Mr. Cop Wannabe didn’t even offer to render any type of medical assistance like CPR! Instead, this stupid ASS sits on the boy and frisks him and tries to restrain him! That poor kid. He knew he was dying and he had to suffer the last indignity of his freak putting his dirty filthy hands on his body!
Oh God alive one to ten minutes!!
Well, less than 2 because he was declared dead when Ofc Smith arrived.
________________________________
That’s a good point… here Bernie goes with that issue again
smith did not touch him, raimondo was first to try to get a pulse, but i’m not clear on the timing of his arrival to that of gun shot.
This is so painful to hear how Trayvon died.
Alive for one to ten minutes when shot.
A brave, strong heart strives to beat even when it’s hopeless …
I see O’Mara got his questions from treehouse but used it on Jharvaris instead of Sybrina
sick
Ex 97 are the abrasions to L ring finger and the pinkie
No injury to right hand at all.
fogen ambushed the child,he never touched fogen as i surmised the other day,what a coward
Fatfuck CAC is bored — almost nodding off. He’s wondering when they’re going to show his “life threatening” kitten scratches again.
Plus he’s got a hankering for pizza Hut.
Ex 95 shows the entrance wound with soot and 2×2 inch area of stippling surrounding it.
Ex 96 is a more close-up
Describes soot and stippling
@Professor Leatherman:
Which means Professor, the gun was up and close on TM. Also, once again that woman on CNN is getting on my last nerve! She is acting all giddy again! It is obvious that she is favorable and on the side of GZ! I thought she would jump up and down again! Oh my god, the Doctor had notes and the DA and the defense didn’t know he was referrring to his notes.They need to see these notes? Why aren’t they focusing on the gunshot wound and the lack of blood on TM’s hands and on his sleeves?? Where are the text messages, cell phone records, and e-mails of Fogen? When are they going to introduce them?? They cannot rest with thsoe still not being released!! This trial is very strange to me. Crazy! JN must be losing her mind!
No blood on the hands.
Only injuries are two small abrasions to finger left hand.
i know i’d be throwing punches with my right hand being right handed
And too small to measure on a ruler.
gz can only look for a second at a time….it’s a bit fucking real now isn’t george?
It looks like his breathing rate increased…Fogen’s chest is going up and down noticeably
I noticed that too. He barely looks at the screen when the pictures are up. He has convinced himself that those pictures have absolutely nothing to do with his evil and deliberate actions.
Stating the obvious: Dr. Bao, the pathologist, was upset by this case.
Yes, he was!
Very obvious!
God bless him.
Dr. Bao wants to testify. He is doing an awesome job.
Yes, he was. Notice he added 17 years old when he identified Trayvon and it was not just in an informative way. He was disgusted.
@Sabrina B.
Yes. He keeps saying his name, Trayvon Martin. I like this man.
Within his extensive body of work, wonder how many homicides he’s autopsied where the gun was smack on the victim’s chest when fired.
Likely not that many such blatant executions.
Dr. Bao placing emphasis on 1) the suffering and 2) no chance for survival. (Trayvon was in asystole with a few escape beats when the medics arrived, and my understanding from the document was that they did not attempt much of a code, which would have been futile.)
Finally, Trayvon’s INJURIES take CENTER STAGE as opposed to Fogen’s “very minor” boo-boos.
fogen=very insignificant man,with very INsignificant injuries,but huge ego=SOCIOPATH needs to be put away to never offend again…. graybar hotel
Yep!
104 is the front side of the hoodie
105 is a close-up of the gunshot hole
Mr. Martin is really suffering.
and the lady behind him is just managing to hold on i think
I noticed that too. Now we know why Sybrina walked out before the ME was called in. I believe BDLR was whispering in her ear as she sat in the witness box, warning her of the graphic pictures and details the ME would be going over.
I even noticed the guy in the blue shirt, sitting in the row behind Mr. Martin watching him with a look of sincere concern.
I see that too, my heart breaks for him
Yes my heart breaks for him and Sabrina.
“Back of hoody appears to be wet”
could be from cpr though…
good, they have learned not to show the photo’s so the public can not create memes of the dead child…
Exactly!
Dear Prof, is the fact that he sat on him,and rendered NO assistance,a depraved mind?
Fogen’s posture has now changed. Ok, y’all gotta go. BBL.
And yet, he would do it all over again. No regrets.
god’s plan.
can we spell D-E-P-R-A-V-E-D and indifferent to human life? i think so!
EX 99 is the xray of body showing the lead fragments in the body before the bag was opened.
Tracy is strong.
Yes he is, he is a good man.
He is. Tears of a father.
gonna read your comments cant stand the awful truth of the poor boys suffering,he was gunned down,like by a depraved lunatic,who NEVER apologized,
Exhibit 81-84: sealed bag containing the body
I’m assuming we won’t see photos.
I am so glad they are not showing the photos.
maybe w needs his own personal assistent to help him as he slowly shuffles pictures, paper.
hope they wont show the public….gz got a good look, admiring his work
West isn’t even up yet and he is already a disaster.
Fogen resettles himself in his seat …. are his hemorrhoids acting up?
Anything to be disruptive, West.
Tracy identified the body after the autopsy was performed. I hope he didn’t have to see that terrible “Y” incision.
@Parrot:
UGH! I remember when I was a Nursing student, I had to view several autopies for experience. It was very difficult for me, but I learned so much from seeing what a ME does at an autopsy. Last week, I lost a pt. and for the 100th time, had to wash and toe tag the body. I passed on viewing the autopsy.
I love this ME, but I do not like the way that West is cross examining this Doctor. The Doctor’s notes are just that, his notes on the autopsy. Let the defense review them. They are certifible. Trying to find anything that will exonerate their hateful, depraved client!
Deborah ~ I once did an autopsy with a handful of students. Will never forget the internal fight to keep detached.
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GIRL, GET OUT! You had to witness an autopsy??
Thank you for sharing that.
I’ve had to study autopsies for the purposes of acquiring the vocabulary and concepts of this procedure. I’m a judiciary interpreter.
The photographs of the bodies, the “Y” incision procedure wasn’t easy to look at. Can’t imagine seeing this in person.
My sister is an administrative pediatric nurse. I have much respect for your profession. Thank you for your dedication.
Had 2 assistants who helped during the autopsy.
This ME volunteers to much talking. I’m afraid it would make him an easy target for MoM.
It also seems to be an ME thing. IIRC, Dr. Rao, she was pretty much the same way. She even acknowledged that she knows that she is not suppose to ask the attorneys questions, and went on to say she would ask anyway.
I think after having testified in court cases so many times, they are very aware of how some attorneys like to spin things.
Look forward to hear ME’s opinion on whether TM was able to sit up and say “You got me ” when his lungs collapsed almost on impact.
Greatest miracle since the immaculate conception.
omg! dont know if i can listen
Since West objected and is arguing his objection at the bench, he will be doing the cross examination.
UGH!
Somebody please tell me it ain’t so. Trayvon was still alive, in pain, and suffering after he was shot?
This is so sad. Trayvon was tortured.
he didnt say for how long.
@Medusauri
@willisnewton
I think I heard Dr. Bao say 1-10 minutes at first, then he said 10 min. He also said Trayvon would not have been able to sit or stand up. I also believe it is very unlikely that he would have been able to talk. This means the confessed murderer lied yet again.
Correct. Alive, in pain, suffering, Fogen sitting on his back and spreading his hands apart to “see if he was holding anything.” Fogen told onlooker NOT to call 911. Right.
That’s because he KNEW that child was still alive and WANTED him dead!
So now we have confirmation for what we always knew was an impossibility……………..No, ‘Sat/Stood up’ and saying, “You Got Me”, No, “You Got It”.
Oh, sick arse, evil son of hell!
Good morning family. What have I missed this morning?
Evidence locker LOCK was tampered with. Locksmiths had to drill it and ot took at least an hour. This may have re-ordered the state’s witnesses since the evidence (which seems secure) was not available at first.
Sybrina was called first, and identified the screams on the 911 recording as those of her son. SHe was poised and did not openly weep. She handled MOM’s cross well and he was unable to obviously impeach her on any point to my eyes.
THen her other son testified, and MOM crossed. Some back and forth, you’d have to watch it yourself but he did fine. Same opinion expressed.
Locker finally opened, and Sybrina recalled to stand to identify the photo button TM was wearing. She did so, and was excused without further cross examination, and she left the courtroom.
ME up now.
GZ appears sweaty and nervous. Gave mean looks to Trayvon’s brother. Sprang up FAST when jury called back in. Less impassive than usual today is consensus of this group.
This will go towards depraved mind, disregard for human life… or not?
yup,and no CPR,or trying to help him,oh this is too ,too sad
Yes, too, too sad!
No
CPR and told the one witness not to call 911 and ask him to help him kill Trayvon.
He claimed that he told dying Trayvon: “Stop, don’t move” — he claims dying Trayvon was “still struggling and cussing.”
Exactly. Telling the neighbor not to call an ambulance when the neighbor asked, Fogen knew 100% that only a cruiser was coming.
Asked Jon Manola if he had blood on his face and chitchatted about what kind of bullet he put into Trayvon’s heart.
I can’t even think about it… it’s just so abhorrent and despicable!
Did Jon Manola testify to that on the stand ? Hope the prosecution did not miss that ?
He did.
and when your insides have just been torn apart and you are scared and in pain and suffering and know you are going to die you don’t say “yeah you got it”….the only thing zimmerman left out was the high five.
And GZ was sitting on top of him, pushing his face in the ground.
good morning amaterdam
Morning Willis,
This is difficuly isn’t it?
I wish they had shown GZ’s face when hearing that… but I am sure the jury would have looked and seen him in his usual arrogant state!
the jury must be on the edge of their seats listening to this testimony. w can’t be impressive trying to interrupt the flow, complain about the wording.
It is what it is, ice cream man. deal with it.
This could be why murder 2. He shot him and walked away. Never try to comfort aid him nothing. That is cold, he knew he was no longer a danger.
Showed depraved indifference when he crawled on his back.
None of them tried to do anything. One witness wanted ot know what type of gun he used. Sad.
My educated guess? Fogen had it worked out he would apprehend a criminal that night, by the following method: he would spot the guy, call NEN, Timothy Smith would head out to the neighborhood but not get there in time for Fogen to have to “defend himself” by the use of force, and BOOM, Timothy Smith would then be able to make Fogen a hero and bring in the criminal for his punishment. My guess is that after killing Trayvon Martin, Fogen called NEN back to get Smith on the line and say, “change of plans; he’s dead and other cops are gonna show up too so be ready for that.”
@Malisha –
“Fogen had it worked out he would apprehend a criminal that night, by the following method: he would spot the guy, call NEN, Timothy Smith would head out to the neighborhood but not get there in time for Fogen to have to “defend himself†by the use of force, and BOOM, Timothy Smith would then be able to make Fogen a hero and bring in the criminal for his punishment. My guess is that after killing Trayvon Martin, Fogen called NEN back to get Smith on the line and say, “change of plans; he’s dead and other cops are gonna show up too so be ready for that.â€
Malisha, I hate to think a REAL cop would be so stupid to conspire with a civilian …. but in any outfit, there are stupid people. This scenario sounds real. Maybe Fogen knew what days Tim Smith worked (days/shifts). Whether it was a conspiracy or not, I agree with you that the attempted call-back was an attempt to reach Tim Smith. That this was (at best) a hypothetical “citizen’s arrest” that blew up.
Tim Smith was falling apart during testimony. I saw what we all saw: with TWO hands he couldn’t control the pointer. We know the records show he had responded to Fogen’s calls earlier.
He did not have his gun out when he responded that night – correct?
It just may be that George said earlier “Hey, I might even catch some guy at night when I’m patrolling – and you’ll get the collar” (credit for the arrest) And Tim Smith didn’t take it seriously – until the night a dead body was the result of Fogen’s “patrol.”
I’m convinced Fogen was determined to get cred for apprehension of a “criminal,” especially after “the stucco guys” got credit and HE did not! So he was actively looking for the chance to become “an action hero.” Unfortunately (very) for Trayvon, Fogen had zero police training. I don’t think anybody imagined he would actually physically run a suspect” down.
I don’t see an actual conspiracy with Tim Smith – but he knew Smith would be responding and I bet Fogen “joked” with Smith about the possibilities – and Smith didn’t take it all that seriously. Just thought Fogen was shooting the breeze.
But Fogen took it seriously – and he went ahead and did it. Went bad. Yes – tried to tip off Tim Smith that the deal went bad.
I don’t remember if/how Tim Smith had an excuse for entering the homicide scene without his weapon drawn – and the assailant was present — and armed. VERY STRANGE
It is so sad he died in fear and pain.
Is this the first time Dr. Bao testifies? I’m surprised he tried to argue with West. I’m also surprised the defense allowed him to enter into a long narrative instead of just answering questions.
They managed to shut that down….. but not before the jury heard “in pain” “suffering”
Trayvon was still alive in pain and suffering and Fogen jumped on his back, which only increased his pain and suffering. Pusing the last bits of life out of him.
CAC is a crazy sick POS!
=depraved
Exactly….
Indeed
I missed the morning session, did they talk about Fogen’s depraved mind of jumping on the back of a dying teenager, causing him to asphyxiate and die faster? Did they ask Fogen why that seemed logical when he had already fired a round directly into the middle of the victim’s chest?
ME says, “it’s relevant” directly to West. Not used to being interrupted by fools, this doctor.
I know, but a professional witness should know you don’t do that. The judge isn’t going to like it.
agree. But it was a clear “brush back” when the judge backed him up.
Some times the judge can appreciate that testimony. My Dad and M.D. once when testifying argued with the defense attorney telling him he had attended 4 years of study at Northwestern University School of Medicine, completed a one year internship, and was licensed to practice medicine in the state of Illinois. He went on to state that the attorney had only completed 3 years of law school. Dad’s comment was “Now my good man, how are you going to argue with me as to the cause of death?”
the fatfuck
POOR BABY and he fatfuck jumped on his back
Obviously there is pain and suffering if a bullet goes into ones chest.
One feels pain if just a needle pricks the chest.
Look how gz complained about his boo boos!
That poor child…. Fogen is an animal.
I love this ME
I love him too.
He was still alive, he was in pain, he was suffering. NOT pro fogen.
Cryptos have the balls to object to “relevance”… scumbags, NO IT IS RELEVANT This victim SUFFERED
Yes, it is. He was in pain as fogen crawled his fat arse on his back.
I said earlier he is definitely not pro Fogen.
He said no his heart is beating. He said he is suffering. Stupid West.
Objection to relevance: OVERRULED!
ice cream man objects to Travon’s suffering, bleeding. Ugh.
WOW! Suffering, pain.
Over Ruled, Ice Cream. Nuff said.
Did he say he was still alive?? Suffering, in pain…. wow first time I heard this!
LOL go JN!
Fat chance either MOM or Westlicker has of tripping up Bao.
Ht: 71 inches
WT: 158 lbs.
tall and skinny
71 INCHES = 5’9″ NOT 6’2″
uh, that’s 5′ 11″
mistyped…my bad…still far from 6’2
Interesting narrative by this ME, I’ve never seen testimony like this, I don’t mind it, I just didn’t think it was allowed.
he is a black boy, he is dead
Yeah, he made sure to throw that in. He is very much trying to throw as much information out there as possible. He is very controlled in what he says, he even asked for a pointer. He has done this many of times and I think he has followed the case and knows the deal He is definitely pro Trayvon Martin.
he is most definitely an advocate for the victim, a boy.
Dr. Bao.
Cause of death: gunshot wound to the chest.
Manner of death: homicide.
Wow. this might take a while. He seems qualified and thorough however. 3000 autopsies, and more then 100 murder victim autopsies.
I have a niggling feeling he is not going to go into much more than what he already wrote in the report.
agree. Nor should he.
OK, so we are waiting for the defence’s expert and the state rebutting them… yes?
3000 autopsies
200-250 homicides
20+ trials
The defense will look like fools trying to discredit this expert.
wftv ticker say martin family attorneys will sue after the trial. well i hope they sue omar and west for slander.
i don’t give a damn about the defending fogen it is what they did knowingly lied. even in death duh-fense slandered Trayvon and omar had the nerve to apologize to the court for lying about the homeless video.
What’s said in court is exempt from slander laws.
thank you Malisha
đŸ™‚
They might be referring to sleezebag O’Mara telling the media that Trayvon was videotaping friends beating up homeless people. I smell a lawsuit coming to O’Mara. I hope this case puts his firm into bankruptcy.
Board certified in clinical, anatomical and forensic pathology. No joke. (2 pathologists in my immediate family)
He is explaining the various causes of death, in forensic cases, and he is also explaining what an autopsy is, and how many he has done.
known as the doctors doctor
it requires lots of study and expeience,my Dad had all the practice needed,in WW2,and way too many bodies…it is a search for the truth(cause of death) how ya doin today? its raining like crazy here
Little bitty world, my dad worked at CDC before he served, then attended Emory, practiced pathology and then founded a clinical laboratory. Brother also, after his PhD in Chemistry. It was interesting to hear the stories; I sneaked into my dad’s closet, pulled his books and looked at the pictures. Growing up with pathologists is truly odd and interesting. Wonder if our fathers knew each other. My dad is 90.
Crane, my Dad practiced general medicine, general surgery, and trauma surgery. He also took part in and performed many autopsies because he was the examining physician for the Oak Park, Illinois police department. His comment always was a expired patient should be posted before the undertaker buried the doctors mistake. Keep in mind he received his MD from Northwestern University School of Medicine in 1923. Thought I would add this comment.
Lost a comment, let me try again: Thank you so much for sharing, I love medical history, and your father likely saw things that today’s doctors will never see in an entire career. My dad was born the year you dad graduated from medical school at Northwestern, and I have shared a bit of his story as well:
http://my.firedoglake.com/cranestation/2012/11/11/public-health-hospital-and-charity-hospital-new-orleans-internship-of-1958/
Thank you so much for the lovely comment, and I agree with your father’s solid advice.
72, cloudy, and pretty here in the United States of Western Kentucky, LOL.
my Dad,Bro,and Bro in law,pathologists,Dad was certified like this guy
Cool. Are they watching this morn?
‘Scuse me, did I miss something? Why is Bao reading his testimony?
i think he is being careful in pronouncing words because he has a strong accent….and a lot of witnesses bring their notes
Gotcha. thanks. His testimony flows while describing the autopsy and he didn’t refer to his notes at all.
“Quincy”…you rock
Sybrina leaves the courtroom after being excused. What a classy lady. She showed as much poise as Jackie Kennedy, or more, in the face of the death of a loved one. Amazing.
yes — her grace is iconic as trayvon’s hoodie
he has a very strong accent and is being very careful to pronounce his words clearly…good job
This poor man will be SO tortured by the defense.
His education indicates he has excellent critical thinking skills. I am hoping he has lots of experience with sarcastic, unpleasant defense attorneys, and knows how to deal with them.
The ME seemed to get a little pissed with West, he is very smart and was trying his hardest to get all the information out that he could. When he said that in his opinion, which as a medical professional his opinion is necessary, that Martin was in pain and suffering. West didn’t like that but it is true. The ME made sure to look right at the judge and tell her but this is my opinion, he pretty much objected to West questioning his opinion..That was very nice.
Yep. If his testimony isn’t Pro-Zimmerman, he’ll become incompetent, underqualified, a liar etc.
And west will try to question his English skills. (not)
The Zidiots already say that he mismeasured Trayvon. I mean, the guy can’t even work a tape measure! Acquit!
wont work,he is concientious imo
This may be my bias speaking but when Fogen looked into the camera I seen absolutely nothing. There was nothing, he was black, cold, soulless.
I agree
Like looking into eyes of a cornered possum. (Apologies to all marsupials.)
What was on Trayvon’s button? I’ve never seen it.
Good question anyone know?
I think it was a deceased uncle.
An unidentified man’s face.
yes i saw it was a mans face but don’t know who
Button he wore of his cousin.
Thank you. Does anyone know the story behind it, why he wore it “all the time”… did the cousin pass? I’m curious as to why Bernie put importance on it.
Yes cousin has passed.
thank you
@chi1224
Warning Graphic Pictures:
Photo Button can be seen. It is the picture of a deceased family member. As soon as I find the name will post.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2348155/George-Zimmerman-trial-Trayvon-Martins-parents-walk-jurys-shown-graphic-photos-sons-body.html
Cory
Thank you so much, so it was a relative that had passed.
What is going on? Technical problems? At least the lawyers are wearing dark suits, since we are looking at so much backside during bench conference.
State now questioning Sybrina Fulton, about the button on the sweatshirt.
Medical examiner will testify next, and heads up, may be graphic content in this.
they didn’t want Sabrina to hear this….
I wonder if evidence is missing. That would explain a lot.
What’s with the button. BDLR has a hammer coming down with that somewhere later
let’s hope. No one has spoken about it specifically yet. Maybe the mother will be shown it.
I KNEW they were going to ask Sybrina about the button. The button, people: it’s important.
The button!
Why is GZ smiling to West?
gee they should be more careful when leaving their computers unattended…i’m sure some smart ass will be zooming in and reading what’s on the lap top…..
good luck with that. Only works in the movies.
Thank goodness that it is impossible to reach through the screen…
If you read between the line,O’Mara trying to make Tracy out to be a dead beat dad want the jurors to think Tracy just walk out on the family and had nothing to do with them.
yep! remember that lie omar told the court that Tracy threatened one of ‘the family members’ when in fact it was all a lie.
omar lied on Trayvon and now his father.
Sure. That’s why he was taking care of Trayvon for 10 days and gave him $40 for a pizza and stuff on game night with Brandy’s kid.
I don’t think it’s helpful to the defense to appear to have a rather unpleasant haughty attitude about divorce and child custody. This can’t play well to the jury. Why they are doing this, who knows?
It shows desperation. I mean bringing up Tracy’s marriage… it has ZERO to do with this case. But one thing they couldn’t change. Those boys stayed close to Tracy, both of them, and that NEVER changed. They went there “whenever they wanted”… no animosity in that family.
O’Mara’s a divorce lawyer. He’s used to making somebody look bad on the stand to gain upper hand in a divorce. He uses innuendo, smarm, and “suggestion.”
His phone – is this his phone, does he like skittles, etc. Did you buy this hoodie for him, etc? Maybe that is what the deal is.
I think the order of the witnesses has been disrupted by the saboteur.
What the hell? What have GZ’s team cooked up now?
WTF is O’Mara complaining about now!
The camera hasn’t moved from Sybrina. No side bar, no GZ, just Sybrina… so very difficult for her.
Yes … and yet she can handle it for her Trayvon. The longer jurors see her sitting in the box, composed and serene during sidebars… the longer they also have to glance over at the pig behind the defense table to see him sweat.
I just can’t stand how he sits there like a Buddha when he has nothing in common with buddha or Buddhism… why can’t a sink hole open up just under his chair ?!
TO, sorry to trouble but my for some unknown reason my ip address is apparently being flagged up as spam by the spam guard so for the past two days any comments I make unless replying to a blogger’s reply to me on the notifications page they do not register on the page.
According to WP the owner of the blog has to approve (accept) at least one of my comments in the spam box and I will be free. It worked on Xena’s so she knows what to do. Xena, Faux, Cielo I think they’ve all emailed the professor to no avail.
You may not get this and it may not work either but I am posting to as many as bloggers I can because if you all reply to any of the professor’s or Cranes’s posts with my plight I could be vocal again.
They are probably going to show Sybrina some pieces of evidence I guess to authenticate them.
I think they called Sybrina and Jahvaris first (and not Sybrina last as most had predicted) to further humanize Trayvon and place him within the context of a loving, hard-working, and decent family before the ME comes in and shows that that fat fuck did to him.
Good point. Humanizing the victim. I’m glad. I want it to be first and foremost in the jury’s minds that a young, decent, precious life was snuffed out by a deranged psycho, because that is exactly what happened!
Who did West just smile at as jury walks out?
his ringer. (dark speculation)
Scary.
Agreed, Puck and chi.
Meanwhile Fogen has the likes of Junyaar …
What a contrast? A family that knows the value of hard work and one that skates by on their father’s name.
Jinxy.
Oh, the contrasts again. One family with values and one family with I don’t know what the what.
My children do not interact much on Facebook. They have each others phone numbers. And, they are the exact age difference as Trayvon and Jahvaris, four and a half years. They have different friends.
Why on earth would siblings chat on FB? They live together (until one of them gets killed by a thug, of course). Do husband and wife chat on FB? How weird, to even think that’s a sibling or spouse kind of communication. It’s not familial; it’s social. That’s why it’s called “social networking.”
Ikr? My children IM when something bad has happened, and they do not want to tell me. But, it is still not on facebook. When Michael Jackson died, they knew I was going to be upset and typed a lengthy conversation about it. They are sneaky, sneaky children…
How inconvenient for the Defense … that Trayvon Martin would have a brother materializing in court as a ghostly mirror of Trayvon for jurors to see …
They raised two fine sons!
Yes! I saw the resemblance and thought the same thing!
The state is recalling Trayvon’s mother, Sybrina Fulton.
Okay. I thought it was the defense that wanted to recall her to torture her some more
(sic) duh-fense will torture her. thank goodness questions won’t be from ole sparky
Mark O’Mara and Don West are the 2 biggest scumbags that I’ve ever had the displeasure of watching litigate a case. Really sad for the legal profession.
How would you defend GZ were you his lawyer? He deserves a rigorous defense. (I agree they are lower than pond scum, don’t get me wrong.) But how SHOULD this have been handled?
What SHOULD we be watching?
MO’M question to Sybrina was despicable in my opinion. I would have asked Sybrina how can she be sure it was Trayvon Martin and ended it there.
i’m five years younger than my sister….we never associated with each other until we were older because that’s a big age gap when you are kids….but we were still sisters.
Exactly. My youngest brother is 5 years younger than me and we were very close growing up, but I never associated with his friends.
Same here… siblings have separate lives too, but they are still close. The jury won’t fall for the manipulation by O’Mara… it was lame and desperate. Anyone who has had a sibling, or kids with siblings KNOWS this!
I am 10 and 15 years younger than my 2 sisters, and we know each other like the back of our hand.
My children are four and half years apart, and they are so close people think they are twins. But as I said below, there is not much interaction on social media, they have each other phone numbers. Every family is different. O’sicko is a psycho, ignorant loser.
Good point here, families are all different, w/various ways of remaining close.
They are not going to call the boys’ step mom, are they ?
the prosecution won’t but i bet omara will now that he has all that juice from her interview.
I thought the same… and for sure they are going to call Tracey too about why he didn’t recognise the screams.
What did the Step-mom say that was bad for the prosecution.
I think the step-mom was very affected by the death and felt left out when Sybrina and Tracey were so much together and said a few unwise and not so nice things in an interview about she brought Trayvon up, and things.
Why does it matter where he stayed?
Oh wow. GZ is staring daggers, displaying that darkness.
He really is a monster!
I saw that too. It was creepy.
Let him try his dagger routine on seasoned inmates of wherever he gets sent.
Inmates do not care for this sort of thing, for sure.
No doubt he will try his “dagger routine” before, during, and after he is made to shimmy and skip by “seasoned inmates.”
I try very, very hard to see and believe the good about everybody, but I see nothing good about fogen, his defense team or his supporters. They all are the worse of the worse, the lowest of the low. They are evil incarnate.
fogen is GUILTY
He went back and forth fuckface! UGH!!
alicia’s interview….
He didn’t need to interact on social media, it was his brother, he could just yell across to the next room.
So because he didn’t interact with his brother on FB he didn’t love him? Where is MOM going with this?
Middle school vs high school.Of course different friends.
mom–when you say you consider tracy martin to be your dad, he actually left the home a long long time ago…
–you didn’t have the same friends. (I know what mom is tryint to say to the jury.)
Is he really trying to go there?
STFU O’MARA!!!!!!! UGH!!!!!!!!!!!
OMG! Now he is attacking Tracy.
His sleeze knows no bounds, he is beyond sickening
Lower than snakes. He is the bacteria growing in a cess pool.
WTF? It does not matter when they divorced.
It’s emotional MOM, sit down.
MOM just stepped in it again.
mom is really unpleasant today. i guess he thinks smarmy sarcasm plays well with the jury.
I wonder if Fogen actually believes that his two crypt keeper sleeze lawyers are going to convince the jury that the brother of this fine young man, and son of a classy loving woman who had her name tattooed on his wrist suddenly jumped a stranger and said “You going to die tonight mother fucker”…. I wonder if he is that delusional??
I hope that throughout the course of the day, the prosecution and maybe even their witness(es) refer to Trayvon Martin as “The Kid” as many times as possible. Keep getting it in over and over and over. Don’t let those 6 women on the jury forget that the defendant killed “A kid.”
We are back.
back on
Has anyone noticed Jahvaris tie? Look closely…it speaks volumes!
I can’t see it.
Look closely at the pattern, what do you see?
Yes, I noticed that.
please explain. can;t see it well.
Big hand, little hand.
Awesome, if that means it has a clock face on it. LOVE IT. please confirm
No, it’s like big brother’s hand and little brother’s hand.
It does.
Yes … from a Dade mentoring program …been around for a while.
I love this judge. As far as the impeachment request by O’mara, she was basically telling him I don’t know what kangaroo courts you have been in but in my court personal opinions don’t count; give me a case precedent. Either the air conditioning is off or Zimmerman is really worried about today’s testimony. A lot of sweat wiping this morning before the jury came in. Getting scared Zman. God, I can’t wait for the jury to come back with Murder 2 Gulty as charged and the sheriff’s department put those handcuffs on his ass.
It’s known to be VERY cold in that room. “Diary,” who posts here confirms that. If GZ is sweating it’s not from the heat, but the humility (or lack thereof) I’d say.
Yes William. It was FREEZING!
I am glad they asked his grade in college. It shows the family did not just put him in college to make it look “good” for the family. It seems everyone thinks this family is ghetto, when in reality it is fogen and wife that are ghetto.
Fogen & his wife are trash, garbage, scum of the earth. They are the lazy, non bill paying, non working ,lying gun toting sick ass POS!!
I have no doubt that this man called George Zimmerman who was near to last at HS graduation & who could not even get an associate degree within the following 10 years still sees himself as superior.
It explains the way he watched Jahvaris down from start to finish.
@Tchoupi
Even after everything GZ still feels superior over young black males. JMO.
Excuse me, I left out RACIST on my comment. Sorry, I forgot. I’m just venting. This a.m. has really pissed me off & so sad at the same time.
Yep, with all his pedigree that he has been using to get out of trouble; His dad as a mini-judge and his grandfather as a CIA administrator, hes still a semi-educated piece of shit. Shelly is not a step up.
he is a true miscreant
His grandfather was CIA admin.? Did not know that. What a loser fogen is.
WESH reporting the lock was drilled and the locker is open.
Wow! Just wow. Usually I’m not conspiratorially minded but, the way the treepers have been behaving, even probably up to the Skype nonsense the other day….
So THAT is where Sundance Cracker went!!
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
cielo, I thought ‘crackers’ broke into locked ‘safe’ places, which is what the evidence room would be. đŸ˜‰
(Works for the defense though, with what will could hear about threats to their client in the courtroom and courthouse areas, with his ‘need’ *cough* to wear bullet proof vest every day all day. The jury could hear about this, and know there are people doing things and gaining access to areas, aka ‘security breaches’.
Works for ol’ fogen.)
It sounds like the evidence locker was not broken into, but rather that someone epoxied the lock.
tampering? That is shocking.
agree. sick sad people wanting to sabotage justice.
Who, what side, would want to keep the evidence from trial? Not the state, not Trayvon nor his family.
gosh, who does that leave? (If you take pathological liar off the table, that is…. )
yeah, Good ole George is being railroaded all right
Tzar, gonna have to take you to task on that comment! (snark alert)
đŸ˜‰
Good morning. I came in at 6 am with Sybrina’s last couple questions from the defense.
I started to catch up at break on the thread, but am leaving the comments from the point of first side bar and will watch this first part when no interruptions later.
LLMPapa, saw that you posted your ‘Let Her Rise Again’, knew you would, thank you. I listened to it yesterday again, so appropriate.
*deep breath*
(seat belt fastened, thanks for the warning, Prof.)
Love Jahvaris’s tie, did you notice it?
its a read “power tie” i guess. I don’t “speak tie.” What’s the relevance?
@willis- it’s a mother thing. đŸ˜‰
Oh! I thought it was birds in flight but now I see it, big bro/little bro hands. Cool!
@ay2z- yes, I just did and posted below…
A message tie: Big Brother, Little Brother
I loved it. It looks like a big brothers hand touching a little brothers.
Has anyone heard anything said IN COURT about who will testify today for the state? Like a lot of us, I’m hoping that the state plans a witness such as investigator Gilbreth who will tie all the points together for the jury.
It seems they may have been scheduled FIRST but this issue with the evidence locker seems to have caused the judge to ask the state to re-order their witnesses.
I suspect someone put gum or superglue or JB weld in the lock, someone who wanted to sabotage this day for the state. But I am speculating.
yup!!!
It’s not an NBC malfunction, is it? They are just not filming because there’s a “time out.” Is that right?
Yep. There is a recess until they can get the evidence locker open.
WESH 2 stream is on a break as well. THe courtroom feed is down I suspect for legitmate reasons and not a malfunction.
it’s recess
however here is a back up link to double check when necessary
http://www.wftv.com/s/zimmerman-livestream/
All cold-blooded snakes are writhing in embarrassment at O’Smarma’s behavior — except West O’Time is all: “Score! Vanilla ice cream cones all around!”.
Hey, West, I gotta cone for you to lick right here!
@whonoze
BOOM!
haha i bet it’s chocolate soft serve direct from the chocolate factory
and by chocolate factory i mean your bum!
Who are these people?
Even Bill S., who generally thinks the Defense is doing a good job, says he thinks MOM made a big mistake crossing Sybrina, referring to the cross as “failed.” He also notes the Fultons are showing to be a good family with good values.
Yep. I wish I would have seen her testify.
it only took a few minutes Sophia so try and look it up on youtube when you have a chance
@Sophia, I missed Sybrina’s testimony also, but found it on YouTube here:
jahvaris is such a handsome young man. he truly is a credit to this family and their values.
this is who and what trayvon would have been in 4 to 5 years.
such a colossal waste of life and goodness.
Yeah, while foggen gets to sit in that chair and be a burden to society for the next 35 years.
Who else has testified this morning besides Sybrina and Jahvaris?
Just them.
No one else has testified this AM and Sybrina was as pillar of strength and firm in her position, that it was her son screaming.
I hope the jury doesn’t think this time delay is all caused by Jharvis. The judge needs to tell them it mainly concerned the locker. I know how we women think, that somethings being kept from us, don’t want them doubting this wonderful young man. I hope they understand shock and grief would keep you from confirming your loved one screaming and begging for their life.
They’ll be talking about O’Mara.
i’ve been on a jury and we hated the defense tactics. Most juries are very smart and unless they were biased from the beginning then i doubt anyone would think this young man impeached himself….i don’t know exactly what impeaching is by the way but i’ve kind of got an idea now…
i think the jury goes in to a trial knowing there is a victim, in this case Trayvon, and would not think less of this beautiful man if he gets a few things confused. If Sybrina and Jahvaris weren’t such fine people the prosecution would never have called them, but they are so likable and come across so very honest that the jury will only see their pain and it will really humanize the victim…justice for Trayvon
You are right. I’ve sat on a jury, in a murder trial, and when we got into the deliberations we all discussed the sleeze tacts used by the sleezy lawyers. Jurors are not dumb.
When Sybrina was ask about Trayon tattoo it told the jurors that Trayvon love the womens of his life and respected them. He was a mama boy.
he seems like a gentle soul
if you get a chance, look up the interview that was just referenced in court. gentle soul is right and there should be no doubt that his brother was too.
{{{tears}}}
my heart HURTS…..
Remember his text message? “I like to make people feel good about themselves.”
Yes, I saw that too. I’m so glad there are five mothers on this jury.
That will play well with the jury. He had far more respect for the women in his life than those Treestumpers have for anyone.
If GZ says TM had all of his weight on him trying to smother him right before the shot–as he stated in the initial taped interview at the police station–then took one hand off of his mouth to go for the gun, how could GZ be screaming? It was a constant scream. GZ is a sociopathic liar.
MOM looks really bad by going after the family of the deceased. It would better serve him to sit down and stfu.
As nauseating as it is to watch, let him keep digging Fogen’s grave. I would hate him by now if I were on the jury.
I have a question. Do you guys think the prosecution will have a ballistics specialist or someone who can testify that the bullet trajectory is impossible for Fogen to have been on bottom, or have I missed that?
beautiful family, you can just tell their nature is one of humility, pride and love. Man i throw a tantrum when i can’t get the lid off the Milo.
Good Morning but I don’t know if anybody notice, but Fogen was looking at him as a Gang Member does. head back, chin up… stare down towards Jahvaris.
yep i noticed that he was staring them both down….very different attitude towards them than other witnesses….maybe west and omara might wanna address that
Yes, I noticed it too.
I’m sure the jury did also.
It’s like an admission of guilt.
he can’t hide his derision
@Smokeegyrl
I like your name. đŸ™‚
Yes, totally agree, jutting out of the chin and nose in the air in body language is suppose to mean, he feels/thinks he is superior to the person who is talking.
Yes. It is written all over his demeanor.
so is guilt.
That too.
@willis
yep
@Sabrina N
Yes
Thank you!
And that jutting chin = aggression. He wishes he could kill them TOO.
@Malisha
Yes you would be correct.
i think Tracy was holding back tears after hearing Jahvaris say that yes…we are related….that’s my dad.
It looks like the defense is dragging their feet again, not surprisingly.. Not much bang for their bucks this morning. Do they want to start their case on Monday? Maybe their not ready to start today.
Yep, I see that. I hope we don’t have to listen to their usual the dog ate my homework excuses for not being prepared. It’s getting a little old.
Take faith that this trial has an end in sight, and that justice will prevail. (But, don’t grit your teeth, because they may be worn down.) đŸ™‚
I will remember your wise advice. đŸ™‚
Sabrina Fulton is a walking taking witness to faith.
Anyone looking at her, seeing what she’s been through and then to sitting in that box this morning with her strength in Faith, has got to say I want some of that!
This situation is one of the reasons why I could no longer be a criminal defense lawyer.
I couldn’t do it anymore.
There are so many innocent defendants — or at least not guilty of what they’re accused of — out there who need your help. The route you are now taking likely has infinitely more positive influence than you realize.
I hope so.
I have always wanted to be of service to others and the cause of equal justice under law.
We are all the same, no matter the color of our skin, our gender, or the language we speak.
Who was that Greek guy looking for an honest man?
I’ll sent him in your direction.
God bless you, Fred.
It’s a tough job, and someone’s gotta do it. Our penal system is so bad, some defense attny’s say they work just to spare anyone , guilty or innocent from the prison-industrial system. But that’s from the majority of cases, which are plea bargained and most often about minor drug possession charges, etc.
This is a different kettle of (rotten) fish.
I’m glad GZ has a vocal and well funded defense. It will make his guilty verdict stick.
They probably taking notes regarding grounds for appeal incase they need to use it. MANY convictions are overturned on appeal, especially in FL.
you sir,have Integrity,along with all your smarts, =greatness
I’ve always thought defense attorneys, criminal and civil remind themselves to take a minute and remember the client is a person with emotions. I imagine it is difficult.
Follow
From my point of view, that was a spectacular failure from Mark O’Mara.
Totally. Like Prof said, turbulence ahead.
Even criminals/thugs have rights that need to be respected.
I wonder if somebody managed to sabotage the evidence box.
I was about to ask where you were. Morning!
Hey J4TM, g’morning. I still need my caffeine (take it in tablet form like a long-distance trucker). đŸ˜‰
Lol! I was wondering the same thing…
I don’t believe anyone in the courtroom believes that was George Zimmerman screaming for help.
I hope you are right!
If that’s the case, Zimmerman has no defense and will be convicted. Do you agree?
Yes.
Thank you. I’m 100% sure it was Trayvon screaming and I am praying for a conviction in this case.
It could be no one except him. Jurors are fully convinced at the point that Zimmerman was neither hurt during nor after the incident so WHY WOULD HE HAVE BEEN SCREAMING. This case is opened and shut on those factors alone. Also, the demeanor of Martin’s brother, the closest thing they have to a real, live, Trayvon says, “not aggressive, a person that would flee, a screamer.”
Not even omara, west or even zimmerman himself. I wonder why hes looking down his nose today? Uranus is squaring his sun. I hope he gets some shocks.
Really? Thugs? Ghetto? Trayvon Martin is a reflection of his stock, the boy.couldn’t fight his way out of a paper bag. Fuck George Zimmerman and his supporters.
good morning tasha. Thank you for always speaking your mind. Keep doing so, and always speak truth to power. Right on.
I agree. Quite honestly, those who support him sicken me.
What the hell is O’Mara trying to pull – and why? Jahvaris gave the same answer – open, nuanced, direct – and just because he is not buckling down (i.e. surrendering) to the SCRIPT that O’Mara’s trying to get him to agree to (and perjure himself), O”Mara’s trying to impeach this honest young man? SICKENING!
Thank God for Judge Debra!
I cried for the first time listening to his brother.
Mom college grad, brother a senior at FIU. Trayvon was no damm thug. I am pissed off
We are thinking the exact same way.
One has to wonder if the evidence has been tampered with, or if MOM will try to make this an issue.
Just to go ahead and to panic early I had a sudden thought that overzealous Zimmerman supporters may have burglarized the evidence locker…. this is how racists operate, and have operated in the past.
Something tells me that Sundance is already making a new video/blog about a new conspiracy theory on how Sybrina Fulton broke in the evidence room during the sacred 4th of July.
I wonder how Sundace and the rest of them feel about the Fultons all being better educated than they?!
Better jobs too. They refer to Sybrina as the welfare queen.
They hate it & don’t believe it. To them a white janitor is superior to an AA person with a master’s degree because Blacks are criminals.
thats why they hate Obama and wife
I’d dust for HIS fingerprints first.
MOM thought he had a gottcha but JN disagreed.
Hopefully the jurors look at Sabrina and Jarvis (spelling?) as a reflection of Trayvon. Both were very smart and respectful.
they better
It is like a trick question just asking “who is crying for help”, Trayvon was screaming for his life, GZ may have cried out for help. They are so different I don’t know why the State has not already isolated each separate utterance on the tape as others, myself included, have done.
Screaming is what it says, SCREAMING, crying out for help is what it says, crying out for help.
I agree but the state is going for the whole enchilada here.
GZ has admitted that he emphatically asked for “help” in restraining the (fatally shot) teen.
This is a “he said/she said” issue and the FBI weighed in that science cant solve this question. The judge agreed in her Frye hearing verdict. But the FBI guy also admitted that a mother may know best.
Mothers do know best. Its true.
female birds,mammals recognize the wails of their babies
See what you mean, willis, but hope the jury have the patience to listen over and over, and have some earphones, because you can clearly hear two voices there, one screaming “a pleno pulmon” and one just calling out help, and no way could the same person do both!
Zimmerman may have said help but where are his defensive wounds? why did he not throw a single punch?
here is the “punk” beating him up and he never fights the “punk” back?
I agree with all of that Tzar, but I have isolated each and every utterance on the tape and “the screams” are one thing and the “crying out for help” is another and extreme modulation changes from “pleno pulmĂ³n” to soft and monotonous, and the way some screams have not finished when an ineffectual little “help me” comes in below makes it impossible for them to be one and the same person and the jury should, imo, know that there is a difference because we have listened for a year, they will not have that time and may think screams and crying out for help are one and the same.
ooh, learned a new term
Can’t seem to find something with exactly the same meaning in English and it describes the screams perfectly !
Tzar, sorry to trouble but my for some unknown reason my ip address is apparently being flagged up as spam by the spam guard so for the past two days any comments I make unless replying to a blogger’s reply to me on the notifications page they do not register on the page.
According to WP the owner of the blog has to approve (accept) at least one of my comments in the spam box and I will be free. It worked on Xena’s so she knows what to do. Xena, Faux, Cielo I think they’ve all emailed the professor to no avail.
You may not get this and it may not work either but I am posting to as many as bloggers I can because if you all reply to any of the professor’s or Cranes’s posts with my plight I could be vocal again.
will do
Ta Tzar (love writing that) I’ve posted about 10 so maybe we can catch professor’s attention… if not a chain post where each poster posts to 10 more… or “yellow post” day, i.e. bring our bloggers home!
Tzar, I can’t post again this morning. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE post PL, several times if you have to and all the bloggers who can and ask the professor to remove me from SPAM. Xena knows how to do it, she did it yesterday and I can still post on her blog today. I hate bothering you all but I am DESPERATE and if the professor has banned me, and I can’t see what I did to deserve it, then he could at least be open about me and not do it like this.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE spread the word
I wonder what they needed to get out of the evidence box when Sybrina was on the stand.
Oh, I hadn’t thought of that. I thought they had varied the order of witnesses because the ME needed the evidence boxes and they couldn’t access it. Yes what evidence are they going to use with Sybrina ?
Prosecution said they didn’t need it open for the next two witnesses. I think MOM wanted it open once Sybrina was on the stand so he asked to be able to recall her.
How about identification of the button?
Probably. I don’t know who is on the button.
I have a feeling that the button is that of the uncle that lives with the family. I think it is before the accident that left the uncle paralyzed. Just a hunch. I think that Trayvon really looked up to and doted on his uncle.
I thought it was said that the button was a picture of his cousin.
It was only mentioned when she was on the stand. They couldn’t open it earlier to have it in the courtroom.
Probably something to upset or rattle her, like Trayvon’s death photo. Or the photo of fogen’s head to take the focus off of her being the victim.
i would guess the picture button trayvon was wearing
Bet you’re right.
ding ding ding ding
That makes sense. Thanks.
Thank you JN! Hmm…mom doesn’t like “attitude”.
“What is the purpose because the Court is finding that it is not impeachment.”
Not gonna play the tape.
Objection sustained.
Court smacked down O’Mara, and is now in recess.
MOM shot down on impeaching the witness
I missed Sabrina, I forget the damn time difference here in Texas sigh
What do they need locksmiths for?
APparently (the Judge said this) there is some issue with the door to the evidence locker
They couldn’t get into the evidence locker.
There was apparently a technical problem with the evidence locker, Sophia.
I see thanks for the info Crane, Willis and Puck. I bet MOM had something to do with that.
They were not able to get into the evidence locker this morning.
oh oh oh a ‘different attitude’ eh, o’slimebucket
give me a fucking break!! and right on judge nelson!
Absolutely ridiculous. GZ was all animated when he reenacted the crime seen the day after Trayvon Martin was shot. On Hannity he was much more contrite (not about the killing, but about being charged with M2).
Mantei, where is that photo of the shoehorn?
Heh!
He just wants to play it for the jury.
he clearly said he didn’t know what we are talking about now….he was clearly getting confused…. that’s not impeachment
O’Mara would like to plant the impeachment notion into juror minds no matter what.
Must be awful to be so desperate … and to have such a worthless, murderin client. Plus he’s got Westlicker by his side. Another cross to bear.
Crucifictions for all three , on general principles.
Since the defendant claims that he was the one screaming, this cross examination is necessary and any criminal defense attorney would have to cross examine, no matter how he or she feels about doing this unpleasant task.
But he hasn’t claimed it was him on the stand.
would any criminal defense attorney invent impeachment grounds out of thin air as if the court is retarded? đŸ™‚
Wow you better hope Fogen does not get on the stand MOM! He is the king top dog of changing his stories.
Court: “His answer is the same.”
Look at that. A twenty-two year-old college senior. What was fogen a twenty nine year old junior not even graduated? Failed wanna-be cop. Took a member of this hard working family with his failed supposition.
And, think of what gz was writing at age 22 on his 2005 MySpace page!
Exactly. Rejoicing in the fact that someone did time for him and denigrating Mexicans. And he has the nerve to place his character above any one of this family. A working and educated mother, a hard working father and a son attending college. With a son that might have been able to do so, if he had let him live.
Yes. BOASTING about his criminal record
you said it!
Not even a Jr. He never finished a 2 year degree even though he has says he did in court & Osterman gave him a party. We’ve all seen the transcripts. He is a lying liar.
HORRIBLE credit too= LOSER
@Sabrina B.
Graduated 315 our ot 317 students in High School. Were their actually two students dumber than Fogen?
O’Mara is a disingenuous shill
GZ claiming that that was his voice (cut off by gunshot) is beyond it.
i bet the court reporter is wishing she was paying attention and not not waiting to watch the video before typing up her notes haha…joking
Ms. Court reporter, I CAN’T HEAR YOU. WHAT? REPEAT. Lol.
Yeah (lol). She is a mess sometimes. She seems like shes out of a partially deaf court reporter skit from SNL. Shes like, Indian accent, got it. Japanese accent, no problem. Ebonics, wait! Help! I don’t understand a single word this person says!
Lol. I literally yelled at my computer pretending to interrupt her like she did to DeeDee.
Please, his attempt impeach testimony of this witness is pety…
Rule # 12. Don’t participate in any media interviews during your bereavement period if you have a loved one who was murdered.
one suspects this only applies to minorities
Yep
But if you are the killer, make all the media rounds possible and lie about your victim, and try and steal his screams.
puke
Unless of course the murderer is walking around free, and you need to get him brought to justice. Then, remain civil and get any help you can.
Did he even bother to say to Jaharvis that he was sorry for his loss? ASSHOLE!
MOM tried that with Sybrina, BDLR objected since it wasn’t a question, and JN sustained.
Makes sense.
No. MOM doing exactly what supporters wanted. Get brother and impeach him.
MOM put video in evidence for use later, he must be so proud…he’s slimy.
JN said it would be marked but not entered IIRC.
Oh thank you for explaining. What is purpose of marking it vs entering it as evidence? Is it just a technical rule?
I would guess so it can be identified, but if it’s not entered into evidence then it can’t be used as such.
MOM is an asshole.
Smirking every chance he gets.
go guy.
“We hope everyone had a safe Fourth, and that no one was in Simi Valley, very sorry to see about the accident.”
Mornin’. Fortunately there were no fatalities.
As everyone probably knows, Simi Valley is the po-po bedroom community where the officers indicted for the beating of Rodney King were acquitted, sparking the infamous LA Riots.
They were later convicted on civil rights violations in federal court.
Sometimes, “the Lord works in mysterious ways.”
Justice for Trayvon.
Justive for Trayvon.
@Michael Stewart
Smack off, Stewart with your wide-prejudice paintbrush of those living in Simi Valley and injured in the fireworks.
You’re as bad as Zimmerman, saying it’s God’s plan to injure individuals:
YOUR QUOTE: “As everyone probably knows, Simi Valley is the po-po bedroom community where the officers indicted for the beating of Rodney King were acquitted, sparking the infamous LA Riots. They were later convicted on civil rights violations in federal court. Sometimes, “the Lord works in mysterious ways.â€
My daughter and family have lived in Simi Valley long before 1991. None work for LAPD. She breeds hunter/jumpers (horses). Ardent supporters of and contributors to both Obama campaigns.
I am offended by your taking the Lord’s intent in vain.
Haven’t you figured out that prejudice means “pre-judgment”?
That all forms of prejudice are as bad as the others?
@PiranhaMom
1) In the 90s, the “predominantly White” suburb of Simi Valley was known as an LAPD “bedroom community.”
2) Three of the four LAPD officers indicted for the beating of Rodney King were acquitted in the Simi Valley trial.
3) Within 2 hours of the verdicts, which many believed were racially motivated, LA was burning.
4) I prefaced my historical remark by noting that “Fortunately there were no fatalities” in Thursday’s fireworks explosion. But of course you neglected to “quote” that segment of my posting.
5) I found irony, not glee, not satisfaction, but irony in the realization that Simi Valley, the scene of the Rodney King beating trial was found newsworthy on the day that the state was preparing to rest it’s case in the George Zimmerman trial. Nothing more, nothing less. Yes, “sometimes the Lord works in mysterious ways.”
6) It’s my impression that you chose to PERSONALIZE my historical reference to Simi Valley and it’s relationship to the Rodney King affair because your daughter/family happen to live there.
That’s unfortunate PrinahaMom, and I’m sure you have a wonderful family
he’s trying to say that even though he was shocked when he initially heard it, you had a chance to hear it several other times before saying that to the reporter……well that just fucked omara up, he said i really haven’t heard it that much….so fuck off
What a f. bastard. Try to impeach victim’s brother on this!!!
He is f-ing shit-bag!
I have no problem with him trying
it’s him inventing the grounds for him to try in open court as if we are all a bunch of idiots
smug mom, having quite a bit of fun with the grief stricken.
Fogen thought bubble: “This Javaris guy, he looks suspicious”
“Just give me my gun and four minutes alone with him in a dark alley.”
Oh good grief. It makes more sense for this family to want to deny these screams. Who wants to hear their son/brother die?
This is such a noble family! To see them dragged through this! Terrible!
Especially since their loved one was the VICTIM. This makes me totally want to ovoid anything having to do with the justice system. A person would be crazy to voluntarily participate in this hellish, theater based circus. The more we see these kinds of trials, the more they will make normal people reluctant to involve themselves. You’d have to be a masochist or fame seeker to involve yourself in this. Just wow.
What did Sybrina say on the stand? I missed it!
She told the jury it was Trayvon on the tape screaming, that was it, she will be recalled later, there was an issue with the evidence locker- so some evidence needed to wait, It was gut wrenching.
that she has two sons, one, trayvon benjamin martin who is in heaven and jahvaris fulton.
and some other things
o’mara pretended to be all kind to Sybrina but is going to take this poor kid to town…..he’s doing well so far though….sending our love Jahvaris
Is O’Mara suggesting that grief and denial has a maximum limit of two weeks?
MO’M is scum
This is what is always happening, it is wrong to ask only about “screams”. There are several soft monotone cries of “help” on the tape and several heart-wrenching full lung “screams”, they are not one and the same, nor could they be the same person as not even an opera singer could modulate their voice in such a way as to be screaming at full lung one second and softly calling “help” the next. The screams are Trayvon’s.
Why does he keep saying “you sat down with a reporter”?? Like it was a negative thing, when HE has been pandering to the media with lies on a continual basis for over a year!!!!!!!!, UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!
question asked, question answered. o’mara panders to the media, that’s why it’s a negative thing !
O’Mara speaking to his as if he’s 4 years old and not too bright. Jurors won’t like that. Clearly he’s a cool kid.
Omara is playing right into the CTH nuts. Word for word. Wow.
Now have to watch 11 minute video.
Did MOM just say, “I’ll have your answer out loud?” Seems like a haughty way to say that.
God bless this young brother. Poised, intelligent, soft-spoken, articulate. Everything opposite of what these stupid, bottom-feeding racists have been attempting to portray this family as.
Amen. I wish the jury could hear what fogens family is truly like, and hear the cousin especially.
Jahvaris’ tie makes me think of a big brother and a little brother.
Me too. I have a feeling that is the meaning of the tie. He picked it out for that very purpose.
what a fine young man
I’m off to work with that question from MOM to Ms. Fulton. Steam is coming from my ears! I hope to see O’Mara’s face on every news show tonight when I get home repeatedly showing the A$$WIPE that he is.
GZ jutting his chin out with the Martins on the stand.
What a lowlife excuse for a human O’Mara is. I need a shower.
I hope the jury is nauseated and hating O’Mara as much as I do….
O’Mara has lied about this woman’s son for over a year and a half and portrayed him to be a racial stereotype by releasing his text messages and pictures out of context. Now he wants to be sympathetic to her? I’m glad BDLR didn’t give him a chance to put on the act for the jury.
Look t him looking at Trayvon’s brother. Looks like he is thinking he missed one.
That’s speculation. But he certainly looks unpleasant.
I said the same thing… This POS is looking at Javaris (sp) like he wants to kill him too.
in the words of Trent… “You can’t kill Javaris FOGEN!”
Shame on the defense for trying to get her to say that Trayvon was responsible for his death!
He and Trayvon Martin resemble each other a lot for being half brothers.
Tracy Martin is his Dad cause he raised him. I love this family.
tears…oh the sadness little brother,glad he didnt go to Sanford,he would be dead too
Next witness: Jahvaris Fulton
Prayers for Jahvaris Fulton, this has to be so hard.
Bless his heart, he’s so nervous.
Amen
IT major, full-time university student. Some more of those racist comments in our spam filter now on their way to hell.
At FIU! Go Panthers!
Yeppers. Another “thug” from the Martin family.
He’s the only dad I know.
Good morning, all
O’mara practially asked, If Trayvon had killed George Zimmerman then he would have been guilty of killing George Zimmerman, is that correct Ma’m?
This guy is a legal Maven
there will
*there will be books
Sybrina did well, I couldn’t believe the ugly snake-like tactics used against the mother of a murder victim. I was shocked.
Snake’s are mortified by his behavior.
@<edocomeBear:
The devil himself, is mortified by Moron O'Mara! Now they hvae the older brother on the stand who is so intelligent, articualte and a pillar of strength for his family as young as he is. Of course he didn't want to believe his little bro screaming like that! Why would his little bro be screaming like he was being tortured?
Sabrina was ready. I’m so glad.
Jahvaris Fulton, Trayvon Martin’s brother, to take the stand now.
This is tragic! Fogen needs to sick prison and just rot in hell.
That didn’t go so well for MOM.
MO’M went to the lowest of lows on his redirect.
*recross
Recalled? For what?
oh my God MOM!
That’s it. O’Mara: STFU.
I despise him and his murdering, lying, sickening client!!
Good morning all.
I just came in and see Sybrina on the stand. Is she the 1st witness
yes
Yes, but subject to recall because they are having trouble with the evidence locker and now the witnesses are being called for whom they don’t need the evidence boxes.
Thanks folks
good morning. Where’s Gilbreth?
Did you hope he would come home?
She is STRONG!
Is there even a single synapse connected in O’Mara’s whole head that tells him what an asshole he sounds like, wading into this?
O’Mara is a sick man. He is the reason some people have such a low opinion of lawyers.
May You Rise Dear Lady
Go Sabrina. Don’t let smarmara box you in.
a mom theory…disgusting again. Thank you Bernie.
i hope the jurors are nauseated.
Oh my God! I doubt she wanted to hear her son scream before his death you ass wipe!
Exactly, why would any mother, one that is not a complete declared and sectioned psychotic, want to hear their son’s agonising shrieks just before being shot
Sustained.
BOOM
Speculation.
MOM has maligned TM for over a year and now he wants to offer his condolences. Bitch please! GTFOOH!
thank ya!
Finally objection from BDLR
you fucking bastard o’mara
This is not cool!
I see Investigator Gilbreath (sp) in the back against the wall on the defense side.
Fuck you O’Mara!!
x 2
x 100,000
xquadtrillion!!!!!
I am actually stunned that Mark O’Mara insisted on plowing forward. Is he actually going to float a conspiracy theory right here?
Yup. Wow.
that was rather disgusting mom. thank heaven for JN stopping him.
I DESPISE O’MARA
Tatoos of his mother’s name and praying hands with his grandma and great-grandma. Yeah a real “thug” there. To hell with these racists.
no smarm allowed, o’mara!
ask a question fool!
I can hardly take it. She is trying to be so strong. I can’t stop the tears.
I so hope Sybrina may be able to talk not only of the “screams” but point to those ones that she knows are Trayvon.
When I say “those ones that she knows”, I mean the utterances like “I’m begging you” and the heart wrenching shrieks.
Degrees and long-term employment. That blows up half of the racist comments in our spam filter right there.
Oh gosh its getting hard for her to speak.
it’s
Educated and middle-class. Far from “ghetto”.
“He’s in heaven…” SF
Who does this sound like?
from treehouse:
Who said that? Disgusting!
For the 1st time, gz looks concerned. Hes sweating like a whore in church. I’m sure his team has told him they’re in a great position with a strong case. Wonder what his deal is? Being a pathological liar without a conscience, I’m sure its not because of Ms. Fulton. He must be having a reaction to something he ate.
He sweats when he feels his life is in danger.
hi MedicineBear very true. if he was in fear and those lie he told then his dna would have been on that Trayvon.
i have bad things to say about fogen right now, so i’ll stop here.
WFTV says Sabrina is looking at the jurors, but they are avioding eye contact with her.
Hate to hear this, that doesn’t look good and is usually a sign the jury is going the other way. Last night I heard one juror seems like she’s not even paying attention and is very disinterested. That to me, means she came in with her mind made up. Imo, the defense might have got at least one zimbot seated.
I think the jurors know how hard this is on Sybrina and don’t want her to feel added pressure from them.
No doubt the jurors kept their eyes on O’Mara probably because of his insensitive questioning. They also would have wanted to see how gz was reacting during Sabrina’s testimony.
We’re all with you Mama Bear!
Ok. Why don’t they have her leave stand while they side bar? That has to be nerve racking!
that’s what i was thinking, get on with it already
I’m not worried about her. She’s made of stern stuff.
What do you think the sidebar is about?
I would be inclined to say that CAC shot and killed my son and now he wants to STEAL his dying screams. That is what I would do if I were Sybrina.
That was a good one to say, I agree with you.
I know, I hope she brings the jury to tears. I want this to be a defining moment in this trial.
Me too…. I could not be as classy as Sabrina, I would fly across that table and try to kill Fogen
Why is the site on NBC keeps refreshing is anyone else having this problem? If so do anyone have a different site to watch it on the internet.
Mine is doing fine. Try wildabouttrial.com
Thank you for responding to me thanks.
Dee, I have good luck with WPTV, sorry I can link, I just google.
Lol. Fogen clearly didn’t get any sleep.
What a picture of contrasts. The lawyers at the judge’s bench and Sybrina, sitting all alone in the box. Ramrod Straight. A pillar of Justice.
Sybrina looks so good…and so sad.
*tears*
As a mother…
I know…
same here….
Prayers for Sybrina. Our hearts are with her on this particularly difficult day.
Amen
Amen
“Don West to do his best to impeach her credibility by accusing her of being a bad parent and bringing up the lawsuit against the HOA”
West can’t be so low, disgusting and overall stupid. I know he showed signs of all this, but he can’t be that much.
I hope he doesn’t go there. On the other hand, I was stunned by the family ice cream party. It appeared to me to show a total lack of decency.
OMG my stomach is in knots… I think I’m going to cry
It’s going to be an emotional morning (got my tissues).
Too early for tears. Bless you Sabrina and may Trayvon be holding your hand through this.
And there’s that Phallic Ice Cream Freak Show, Don West, at the bench conference on the left of the screen.
phallic ice cream freak show … hahahaha!
you know why he keeps his neck tie so tight, right?
(to keep the foreskin from popping up)
*snort. reaching for windex*
I’m going to have another look @ pic did not p/u on the reference u made. Too funny!!
She looks so pretty.
Good Friday Morning.
OMG.
god be with you, ms fulton
Sybrina!
OMG, I didn’t expect her yet. Oh Sybrina – ((((hugs))))
Good morning! Yes… I had a feeling they would put her on first!
Good call — I didn’t even consider it.
Lord help me through this. I’m already getting a little choked up.
Next witness: Sybrina Fulton
BDLR asks for a conference at the bench.
Here we go. Hugs and prayers Sybrina.
We support you, Sabrina.
I lift you up in prayer and my support.
I am so glad you all were here praying this morning, I was sorting mail and looking at the clock, when I got on my route Sybrina had already testified . Now, I’m home & have to catch up. What a lovely bunch of people. MAY THE PEACE OF GOD FILL US ALL, HOODIES UP & lots of tears
Tears already.
Oh sap! It’s to early my heart is not ready.
fuck
OMG Sybrina up first!!!
even though the weather on that night was one of the reasons Trayvon was considered suspicious…hmmph…maybe he just hasn’t seen it yet
Good morning everyone!
Well the murderer is sweating like a pig this morning.
Anyone know if Trent got in as spectator today?
Good question. Haven’t heard.
He did not have his name drawn. He says he will try again Monday with cookies for the officers. Says he will stay until his name is drawn.
sweating like an asspig already.
alright now, sick he look at Miss Sybrina and Javaris with disdain.
Tracy looked like he was visualizing kicking omara ass.
Good morning! GZ sweating bullets.
oh lordy – o’mara objects to the weather report for 2/26.
The defense objected to weather conditions? Why?
On the grounds that weatherunderground isn’t authoritative?
Because they do not want an official document that says there was NO wind that evening.
Thus, the sound we hear on NEN call is gz running when he exits his vehicle.
Go Guy! It was not windy.
Morning everyone. What are the stipulations regarding ME’s report?
that both parties agree that the autopsy is that of the victim
The body at the autopsy was Trayvon Martin.
Thank you prof and faux.
Just that the body examined was, in fact, that of Trayvon B. Martin.
Guy said ME will be testifying today.
Good morning! Today is going to be very interesting. I have tissues handy just in case Sabrina testifies today.
Kick Out the Jams, (Brothers and Sisters!)
Good Friday everyone!!!
Good morning everyone. I am hoping for some 5th of July fire works.
morning folks!
morning faux and morning everyone!!
mercy mercy Bless Sybrina she is very strong. i’m crying have mercy. ready to throw up.
i should not have view that pic of Trayvons’ face, never never should have done that. that Baby OMG his mouth you can see ‘HELP’ mercy that Baby was still trying to say ‘HELP’..
That damned Omara damn him, soft voice apologize lying liar.
đŸ˜¥
>^..^< Me and my non degraded DNA are present!
Wouldn’t that be a very dangerous thing for him to do? I mean first of all, who wouldn’t file a wrongful death suit and second of all, what is the jury going to think if he harasses her the way he did Rachel? If he starts going all outhouse on her, they aren’t going to be very happy.
Good morning.
Please fasten your seat belts. Possible turbulence ahead.
All rise.
We hope everyone had a safe Fourth, and that no one was in Simi Valley, very sorry to see about the accident.
Good Morning Truth Seekers! Here’s a repost from prev thread to cheer you up with a chuckle . . .
I just found a video of someone named Irwin Mainway who the duhfence has obviously been using as a consultant on their case and whom they may call as an expert witness on GZ’s “life threatening injuriesâ€. Take a look:
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/irwin-mainway/n8641/
*snort*
Good morning everyone.
Good morning, all.
Tres
Good morning all! Hugs and love to everyone!
Good morning diary!! What a feeling being in the court room my seat #5 behind Martin family . Tuesday was serino and ME very quiet in courtroom jurors writing writing writing notes. Little little little boo boo’s.
What were you wearing. What do you look like?
I’ll take 4th . . . and fogen will take the 5th.
Happy 5th of You-Lie fogen!
Hoodies Up . . . Liberty and Justice for All.
1st even better!
The Prosecution rested, defendants motion to dismiss DENIED!
Omar called his first witness Gladass and she was pretty sure it was gz screaming, although she admitted she never heard him scream like that. gz’s sheriff’s dept uncle swears up and down it was gz screaming, says he recognized that voice, even though he heard it over the tv behind him, as he worked on his computer.
Some pair of ears eh? A 911 tape, with a scream in the background, playing over a tv on a news program and he immediately recognized that voice, without even turning around.
Bernie didn’t waste his time with these two. Contrast that with Omar torturing credible witnesses, eh?
Well it’s Monday 9am for day 10.