Dee Dee is an innocent witness to a murder and must be protected from breitbarting

Sunday, March 31, 2013

Peace, Joy and Freedom to all:

I begin with a confession. I have been awfully slow to identify the core issue presented by W8, who was assigned a fake name (Dee Dee) by the prosecution to protect her privacy. That alone should have been sufficient to trigger my curiosity. I could offer some excuses, but that would detract reader attention from where it should be.

Mark O’Mara is changing the practice of criminal defense from winning the case in the courtroom to winning the case before trial in the court of public opinion. He uses the internet and the media to dispense false information to the public about the case and to discredit and intimidate prosecution witnesses by character assassination.

For example, he has enlisted the support of two reporters at the Orlando Sentinel, Rene Stutzman and Jeff Weiner, who report the information that he gives them on a daily basis as “news. He also has endorsed a website (i.e., the Conservative Tree House) as a legitimate source of ideas and assistance. He also uses motions for discovery and motions to reconsider or clarify prior court orders as a vehicle to repeat his false narrative.

Intentionally dispensing false information about the case to the media is a low-risk strategy with high-reward potential, since the the media is willing to report the defense statement without reviewing it for accuracy and the prosecution is prohibited from commenting about the case.

Although anyone who is familiar with the evidence released to the public via the State of Florida’s remarkable Sunshine Law knows that the media consistently reports a false and misleading narrative favorable to the defense, there is little that we can do as individuals to correct false information reported by the media.

Fortunately, we can do our part here in this blog and others like it to identify and correct false information. Unfortunately, however, the national media prefers to ignore us and instead provide Robert Zimmerman, Jr., with multiple opportunities to deny that anyone in the Zimmerman family is racist and to proclaim that his brother, George Zimmerman, is a decent American who acted in self-defense to prevent Trayvon Martin from killing him with his bare hands. Never mind that Trayvon was an unarmed 17-year-old kid walking home in the rain talking via cell phone to his girlfriend in Miami when he supposedly launched this attack. Move along. There is nothing to see here, folks.

That brings me to O’Mara’s second strategy, using character assassination to intimidate witnesses and destroy their credibility before trial.

Character assassination has been used for many years to discredit and defeat political opponents and win national elections. If you should visit the Conservative Treehouse, take a look at the banner on the home page. You will see a shrine to a person described as a great American patriot and within that shrine you will see a photo of the man to whom the site has accorded godlike status. The man depicted in that photo is Andrew Breitbart who so perfected the use of manufactured evidence to support false accusations against political opponents that his name has entered our lexicon as a new verb. To Breitbart someone means to destroy that person’s reputation with a campaign of malicious lies based on manufactured or doctored evidence.

My wife and I have been subjected to a vicious and continuing campaign of character assassination by lie for daring to operate a blog that promotes evidence-based discussions of the Trayvon Martin killing. We are not alone. Sybrina Fulton, Tracy Martin, Benjamin Crump, Natalie Jackson and many others, including Trayvon Martin, the innocent victim of the killing, have been subjected to a similar, if not worse campaign of lies.

That brings me to Dee Dee. As a victim who continues to endure breitbarting, I have some idea how she must feel knowing that two innocent girls in Miami, whose only crime was to have been named Dee Dee, were successively breitbarted by mistake. I imagine she also knows about the doxing and breitbarting of W9 (the defendant’s cousin) whose only crime was to have reported to police that George Zimmerman sexually molested her for 10 years beginning when she was 6-years-old and he was 8-years-old.

I know that if I were Dee Dee or Bernie de la Rionda I would not believe that Mark O’Mara would honor his duty as a lawyer and officer of the court to assure that no information that might assist in identifying Dee Dee is leaked from his office.

I am well equipped to survive breitbarting because I am self-employed with this blog and I have the strength, willpower and self-assurance of a warrior forged in the heat and pressure of high stake courtroom battles during a long career. I chose to create and operate this blog and I accept responsibility for what we do here.

Dee Dee is a child and she did not choose to be a witness to a murder. Yet, she is and I worry about her. The media and the general public appear not to realize that she too is a victim of the defendant’s violent act on February 26, 2012. I wonder if she is plagued with panic attacks and nightmares generated by a brain stuck on a spin cycle of fragmented memories, what-ifs, and if-onlys. No one, especially a child, should be subjected to such torture.

The realization that she also must know that she has been targeted for destruction by breitbarting frightens me and makes me wonder how any human being could be so full of hate that they would even consider hurting her, let alone setting out to destroy her with lies.

I can only regard Mark O’Mara with horror and disgust

The god of my understanding and belief is not going to be OK with this.

I think Bernie de la Rionda is doing his best to balance his duties as a prosecutor, including his duty to comply with the Brady rule, with his duty as an empathetic member of the human race to protect her from the coming onslaught.

I applaud his decision to withhold the information that O’Mara requested until the night before the hearing on the defense request for a subpoena duces tecum.

He did not violate the Brady rule because he disclosed the potential impeachment information a week before deposition, which is the first time that O’Mara could have used it for a legitimate purpose. O’Mara suffered no inconvenience and the defendant’s constitutional rights to due process of law and a fair trial have not been violated.

Mark O’Mara’s motions for sanctions, fees and costs are frivolous because they are not supported by law.

I will close with this warning. Breitbarting a witness in a murder case is witness intimidation under Florida law. Anyone convicted of that crime can be sentenced to life in prison.

I sincerely hope that anyone who participates in the coming effort to intimidate Dee Dee will be charged, convicted and sentenced to a very long and unpleasant time in prison.

302 Responses to Dee Dee is an innocent witness to a murder and must be protected from breitbarting

  1. Nellie Dell says:

    Ihave been harassed for suporting Trayvo . I know Zimmerman are doxing DD and harassing people. There is a person on this thread using my name who harasses me on fb. They have attacked me and my family. GZ is guilty by the evidence and they are mad about this.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      nellie dell – if someone (here or otherwise) is using your name and harassing you, i strongly suggest you contact local law enforcement.

  2. Mary Davis says:

    @ Xena. If Trayvon was on top, he would have grass stains on the front of his shoes. Was there any stains or debris on Trayvon’s shoes?.

    • Xena says:

      @Mary Davis

      @ Xena. If Trayvon was on top, he would have grass stains on the front of his shoes. Was there any stains or debris on Trayvon’s shoes?.

      The report does not provide for where debris was found on Trayvon’s shoes, but it does provide that debris was found on the front of GZ’s left boot.

      It’s my impression that Trayvon could have been face-down at some point during the altercation, as take-down maneuvers are geared to get suspects face-down. That could result on debris on the front of Trayvon’s shoes.

      Again, I think the tests were conducted in such a way to see if they lined up with GZ’s story of wiggling while on his back, being hit in the face while on his back, and going for his holstered gun while on his back. There should have been debris from the collar of his jacket to the back of his boots — and there wasn’t.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Also, Trayvon was found face down and then turned face up by the officers. Grass could have been anywhere on him.

  3. Mary Davis says:

    @ Malisha. Please disregard my question about Trayvon’s pants. I just now saw Xena’s reply to Two Sides.

  4. leander22 says:

    I wonder if anyone that read the book by Mark and Sondra Osterman realizes who has written the book?

    Special Thanks:

    Rita Tate, Creative Project Director, “thank you” doesn’t even almost cover the gratitude we have for you, but thank you for brining our words to life and for putting up with the mountain of notes and questions and marathon phone calls.

    Creative Project director means she is in charge of ghostwriting. I wonder if we would find such a lot religious devotion hadn’t she been in charge of it. As a superficial look at the lady shows.

    Tate Publishing blog spot:

    Rita maintains a busy schedule as always. As Executive Creative Writer for Tate Publishing she is a ghostwriter for the company’s celebrity authors.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Interesting. The publisher claims not to be a self-publishing outlet, but I’m involved in the industry and judging by the book titles and also the author testimonials, it sure sounds like one.

      Plus, they have a staff that seems impossibly large for a normal publisher (excepting the well-known giants) not to mention complaints online which indicate a POD outlet is exactly what they are – they’re taking money for book publication.

      I read only the chapter excerpts of the Osterman’s book over at CTH and wasn’t at all impressed with the writing. Seemed like a rush job.

    • colin black says:

      Why didnt he get his pa pa to write it after all he is a published authour an all that.
      An pls no smart alec remarks about him being dead an unable to pen his son an daughter in laws classic.

      FOGGAGGE THE MOST MISSUNDERSTOOD mealymouthedraceistchildmurdererinmerica.

      Thats what ghost writters are for….

  5. Mary Davis says:

    Correction: I have not seen or heard anything mentioned.

  6. Mary Davis says:

    @ Malisha. Were there any wetness or debris on the knees of Trayvon’s pants?. I’ve wondered about this for some time, but have not seen anything mentioned.

  7. pat deadder says:

    I think fogen is going to ask for a plea deal by the end of May.His lawyers and him know he is screwed.I think they know the prosecution has gps,fogen,s phone records and quite possibably Shelly.They also have the forensics,where Trayvon was executed.How in hell can they defend all this.And P.S I just relistened to Osterman on Dr Phil and he said he met Shelly at the scene.So was his car tagged by police as being there or did he drive Shelly’s car there since imho she was with fogen that night.The only other alternatives are one racist juror and I think BDLR will not allow that to happen or suicide.

  8. Malisha says:

    Remember, though: O’Mara said that Fogen was arrested under “extraordinary circumstances” and that the trial is taking place under “extraordinary circumstances” so maybe Sundance CAN represent Fogen, which would simply be another “extraordinary circumstance.” In fact I would love to see it!

    He’d plea-bargain him down to a misdemeanor “littering” charge for leaving the shell casing on the ground. Then he’d get him 4 hours of community service mentoring Pba-lack kids! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

    • Rachael says:

      Actually, he thinks Trayvon’s parents should be sued for all the damage GZ murdering him has done to GZ. Like they should never have let him out and yada, yada, yada.

    • Jun says:

      LOL That would be pretty funny. Sundance would be jailed for contempt in the first hour or so LOL

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Just a little community service right before he’s a gigawatt millionaire from all his civil lawsuits, of course.

  9. Danita says:

    Hey Im sure this has been examined before, sorry if so but I was looking at the statements from the paramedics and I noticed that Kevin O’Rourke stated that Zimm had on a shirt and jeans he also said that 45% of his face was covered. However Stacy Livingston never mentioned blood but she did however say the an investigator asked her if Zimm complained about his knees, and finally Michael Brandy also stated Zimm had blood on his arms and hands. Now my question is in order to clean blood from one’s arms and hands, either he wasnt wearing a jacket or I would think the statements would include “we had him remove his jacket” and even more important how did so much blood get on a person who is suppose to be wearing a long sleeve shirt plus a jacket. If Zimm was washed to that degree then why did he need to wash up when he arrived at the police station. Just taking a look at some things……..

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Good point, Danita.

    • ay2z says:

      Danita, if you look at the time stampe, see the minutes, then coordinate that with when the shot was heard, and there’s no much time for washing up while sitting in a cop car.

    • pat deadder says:

      to Danita I have been thinking about this for a long time.I’ve been wondering if fogen took his jacket off when he was slithering around when he got his scatches,,hence the white shirt.I know it was grey but it was also dark.I didn’t know O’Rourke said that.But was zimm in handcuffs by then in which case he had told the officers the gun was under his jacket in the holster.I just think fogen is so devious he said things in his reenactment like mentioning the jacket and the pin on Trayvon was somehow important to him. To Srg Smith he said he didn’t remember mentioning the pin in the NEN call..I know I’m probably not making sense but I was so happy to read your post.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      O’Rourke said 45% of his head, not his face.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Nice catch… I’m also waiting to see how many people figure out that, if gz’s hands and arms were covered with blood, wouldn’t that have had to happen after he got up off of Trayvon? I mean, how could he be pressing on Trayvon’s back with blood covered hands and not leave large blood stains on the hoodie?

      We need to try and count all the different positions Trayvon’s body was viewed in, from the time of the shot till the medics start work.
      So far I’ve counted 4 different positions before the police arrive and they see the body in a 5th position. Yet, nobody remarks about seeing anyone turning the body over or moving it around except that gz says he stretched the arms out. But, since nobody sees the body in this position I’ve left that one off my count, otherwise it would be 6 positions.

      Simply amazing, a body falls to the ground and each witness sees it in a different position, with one witness sees it in a different position each time she looks. So, whose moving the body around? Why is gz’s hands and arms suddenly covered with blood, after he’s moved away from the body? Since, he obviously could not be touching Trayvon with hands wet with blood and not leaving any marks or stains. So where did all this blood come from? Did the police bring it with them? Is that why they needed the photo with gz’s nose all bent out of shape?

  10. Rachael says:

    I have to wonder if this is an April Fool’s joke or just a fool’s joke:

    Couldn’t stop laughing!!!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Ha, Rachael, the Treestumpers should take up comedy writing intstead. No April fool there – just more of their regular duh-daily tripe.

    • cielo62 says:

      Rachel- I’d say “fool” as in “fool every day of the dang year!”

      Sent from my iPod

    • @Rachel

      They’re totally out of touch with reality over there. Just a bunch of idiot nonsense. I read so far and couldn’t take it anymore.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      That board reads like the posters are about 6 years old. They don’t realize that their own speculations and proposals reveal to the world their particular lack of knowledge and understanding of both human social relationships and the law. Yet, they presume they have legal advice for MOM. They are silly people who, if they don’t get their way, are a potential source of danger. Because, in their ignorant inability to understand how things work, and why people decide the way they do, more likely than not these people will feel they are unjustly being frustrated by the adverse rulings they so often obtain.

      It’s a real tragedy to see people who think as they do.

      • racerrodig says:

        And what’s with the picture of Ian Anderson from “Jethro Tull”

        Oppppps, my bad, They are “Thick as a brick”

      • Xena says:

        @Lonnie Starr.

        It’s a real tragedy to see people who think as they do.

        It’s a site that promotes sovereign citizenship interpretation of “common law.” That sounds good to the ignorant, racial bigots, those believing they are superior to others regardless of race, and to bullies who need any “cause” to convince others to do their dirty work.

  11. Malisha says:

    RE: The blood on Fogen’s face in the picture taken by Wagner, and Jeralyn Merrit’s insistence that said “blood” on his face proved that he killed in self-defense, and all the foldemeroll about the “blood” on Fogen’s face, I have this to point out:

    According to Fogen, BEFORE he shot Trayvon Martin, while he was still enduring a terrible life-threatening beating and while he was yelping “Help me Help me” and while he was shimmying, he couldn’t even SEE because he had blood in his eyes and there was blood “everywhere.”

    According to Fogen, AFTER he had shot Trayvon Martin, when the witnesses were showing up in the area from the surrounding homes, he asked someone, “Am I bleeding?”


    • aussie says:

      All that rain, you know Malisha. Had to be sure it wasn’t all washed off.

      Nice catch though 😉

    • @Malisha

      According to Fogen, BEFORE he shot Trayvon Martin, while he was still enduring a terrible life-threatening beating and while he was yelping “Help me Help me” and while he was shimmying, he couldn’t even SEE because he had blood in his eyes and there was blood “everywhere.”

      According to Fogen, AFTER he had shot Trayvon Martin, when the witnesses were showing up in the area from the surrounding homes, he asked someone, “Am I bleeding?”

      bwa ha ha ha…you can’t make this ish up..

    • Malisha says:

      I want to know if Selma saw blood on his face.

    • Jun says:

      Fogen asked that because he wanted to make sure his staged injuries were bleeding because he was not sure

    • manberk says:

      “Am I bleeding?”

      BOOM! Thats what you say when you scrape yourself, which would match his small abrasions, not when youve been blinded by blood and unable to see because of it. LOL.

    • KittySP says:

      @Malisha: Ding,ding,ding,ding ding!!! Those two conflicting statements is proof of how far GZ is willing to go to cover his butt.

  12. colin black says:

    Sundance says ..Quite simply mr west george zimmermans fate is in your hands……

    Thats it foggagges fate is in the hands of SKELETOR….What will the Iurours make of his court etiqete?

  13. You all have thoughtful comments says:


    You answered other people’s questions after I asked what I will put in quotes below. You did not answer my question. Why not?

    You all have thoughtful comments says:
    March 31, 2013 at 7:04 am
    Do you think that gz lied throughout his interview statements?

    • onlyiamunitron says:


      You answered other people’s questions after I asked what I will put in quotes below. You did not answer my question. Why not?

      You all have thoughtful comments says:
      March 31, 2013 at 7:04 am
      Do you think that gz lied throughout his interview statements?

      The post to which I am replying shows, on my screen, to have been made at 3:00pm on April 1st.

      I’ve gone back through all of the notification of new post emails I’ve gotten from this site.

      There is not one about that post 10 minutes on either side of 3:00 pm, or of 12:00 pm, 1:00 pm, 2:00 pm, 4:00 pm, 5:00 pm, or 6:00 pm–thought I’d allow for the possibility of a time zone offset.

      I also checked in similar fashion for a notification email for your original March 31st, 7:04 am post in the “The Prosecution did not violate the Brady rule in Zimmerman case” thread, and found none for it either.

      I do not know why. I certainly receive a flood of other email notices from this site.

      To your question:

      Do I think he lied throughout his interview statements? Not throughout, as in everything he said was a lie. I’m sure some of it was actually true.

      Was some of it lies?

      I don’t know, I can’t read his mind, so I don’t know for sure if he intended to deceive or not.

      Was some of it in conflict with either other things he said post-shooting, or what we hear on the NEN call recording?

      Oh, hell yeah.

      There’re holes in his story big enough to drive a Mack truck through.

      I don’t know if that’s from an intent to deceive or from being muddle-headed, or both, and I don’t know how much of that muddle-headedness he already brought to the table prior to whatever head pounding he may or may not have gotten in the minute or so before the gunshot.

      If there are any on-purpose whoppers, my main candidate would be the “got out of the vehicle to travel in the same direction as, but was really looking for an address for which he hadn’t yet been asked” routine.

      That one’s pretty hard to swallow, although by now he may have convinced himself of it.

      I don’t think it goes to motive to pre-meditatedly kill, but I can certainly see it tied to the frustration inherent in “they always get away”, and I can see where he’d want to avoid admitting that, even if his intention was, at worst, to detain Martin long enough for the cops to get there.


      • manberk says:


        He either lied when he said he ran or lied when he said he didnt. Same with following.

        Muddle headed is an excuse I hear made for him but I dont see any evidence of it. He didnt even need a hospital. He checked out normal, he felt well enough for a couple interviews and a written statement that seemed pretty clear. Ive head it to cover for how his first several statements don’t match where they found the body. That could be a big lie. And I’ve heard it used to explain away the 2nd time GZ has TM circling his truck, a path GZ pointed to and traced with his finger during the reenactment days later with perfect recall. Of course that extra 500 feet of 2nd circling is impossible based on the time lines. That would be a big lie too. Seems to me these stories are going to be blown out of the water rather easily when their are presented by the prosecution. What GZ says wont have much impact on the facts.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Don’t forget that during those interviews, GZ was asked simple questions, like were the front gate cctv’s working, and his answer was to name the man, his title and the company he works for, as the go to guy who cares for the cameras, and he even had the guys phone number stored on his phone. As well as knowing approximately how long the cameras had been out of service.

          That doesn’t sound like any kind of memory impairment to me.

  14. Malisha says:

    Would YOU take over that department? I wouldn’t!

  15. New Sanford police chief sworn in

    SANFORD, Fla. — Sanford has a new police chief.

    Cecil Smith officially took over the department, and was sworn in during a ceremony Monday.

    Smith replaces Bill Lee, who was fired over his handling of the Trayvon Martin case.

    George Zimmerman is accused of shooting and killing Martin.

    Smith became the fifth police chief in the city of Sanford in just two years.

    During the ceremony, Smith spoke about the challenges, and acknowledged that he would be under close watch.

    Smith said that as Zimmerman’s case goes to trial this summer, he will be working to honor the death of Martin while moving the city forward.

    He also said he will make sure no case is handled the same way under his watch.

    • Rachael says:

      “Smith became the fifth police chief in the city of Sanford in just two years????!!!!”

      • truthseeker66 says:


      • SoulSistaWoo says:

        Some jobs are just not worth applying for… and police chief of Sanford, FL is one of them.

        Their city slogan… Welcome to Sanford, FL, the most corrupt city on the Eastern Seaboard!

      • Rachael says:

        I’m telling you, if 4 had gone before me in just 2 years, I sure as heck wouldn’t want to be #5!!!

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Yes, unfortunately it’s a very demanding position which deprives the holders of precious time that can be spent with the family. Not everyone can deal with this draw back. I’m sure you understand.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      The nutters are howling about his TM statement.

      Loving it.

    • elcymoo says:

      “George Zimmerman is accused of shooting and killing Martin’.


      No, he isn’t. It’s undisputed that he shot and killed Trayvon Martin. The overabundance of sloppy reporting like this makes me gnash my teeth. I’m not sure I’ll have any enamel left by the time the trial is finally over – IF there’s a trial, that is.

  16. Lonnie Starr says:

    @Professor: You’ve got the date 2/26/13 up there where you actually mean 2/26/12 . Otherwise great article. I think Judge Nelson and BDLR have grown tire of MOM’s antics and will now draw the strings closed on the purse of forgiveness and mercy. Should MOM persist with his nonsense, he’ll find himself sailing in troubled waters where there be dragons for sure.

  17. elcymoo says:

    Sundance has wrapped up a whopping mess of wingnuttery in legalese-sounding rhetoric. It does not follow that because the prosecution has not revealed witness 8’s name and address that the state isn’t fully aware of her identity. Perhaps West should file another motion, demanding this time that she produce a birth certificate to prove that she is, in fact, the daughter of the woman who’s presumbably been paying the bill for the cell phone this witness was purportedly using on the night of the killing.

  18. colin black says:

    So now foggagge has a another pro en bonner as an ad hock ad hack aturnkey. Thats all junior an sundance his supporters et al .
    Helping to turn the key in the lock as it slams forever on his expanding derrier.

  19. colin black says:

    Sundance an open letter to Mr West

    Dear Mr. West,

    It is an unknown variable how much of the case background you were technically aware of prior to your entry into this case. It is also an unknown variable as to the nature of your relationship with Mark O’Mara, and whether it is in fact more than professional? However, it is well-known to interested observers that you are the primary researcher/investigator of the defense.

    Your partner sucks.

    Not only is he professionally compromised, known by many within the courthouse circuit to be a fibber and ‘stretcher of truth’, and concerned more about his selfish ego than the protection of his client, your client, – but he is also smarmy and truth adverse.

    Being truth adverse might be a keen professional benefit for lawyered types when representing guilty folks, or those who might be guilty; But it’s a horrid professional trait when defending the innocent because truth is supposed to be on your side.

    So what does that mean?

    Quite simply, it means that you, Don West, are the only hope that George Zimmerman has.

    With that in mind, and considering the presentation before Judge Nelson on Friday 2/22/12 – You really dropped the ball regarding the motion to depose Benjamin Crump.

    You, and we, know that witness #8 is a fraud and a guise – with a specific narrative created by Benjamin Crump. We, and you, also know the key to deconstructing that fraudulent narrative is the disinfecting sunlight of truth through discovery.

    When Judge Nelson denied the motion to compel deposition under the precept of Benjamin Crump being “opposing counsel”, and all such descriptives as defined by referenced precedent in law, you should:

    a) have expected it, and b) have had a pre-plan to use such a ruling to your advantage.

    Remind the court that by offering Benjamin Crump the protections codified within statute and prior case referenced conditions -saved only for prosecuting counsel- she is simultaneously then attaching all of his behaviors, conduct, and actions to the State Prosecutorial team.

    In essence, if Nelson is going to protect Crump “as if” he is the state prosecutor, then you should present your counter points as if the “state” is now responsible for the behavior of Crump:

    Your honor, if you are going to use, and afford, referenced case-law to protect the non-party Crump from deposition, thereby assigning him a new status of central party or conjoined counsel with the state, it is prudent to ask the State Prosecutor Mr. Bernie De La Rionda if he accepts such distinctions?

    Secondly, and as a consequence of such acceptance, if such distinctions are now accepted by the State, will the state clarify for the record why they specifically and intentionally have erroneously misled the court -and the accused- with regard to the identity of Witness #8.

    Mr. Crump, and now by your honor’s extension, ‘The State’, have presented and portrayed the witness to be a “minor child” of 16-years-age on March 19th 2012. Simultaneously, the same State is now presenting the identity of this witness to be 19 years old on February 22nd of 2013 – A seemingly irreconcilable difference.

    Previously, Mr. Crump presented through his counsel, Mr. Blackwell, an affidavit to the court noting that at the time of initial discovery for witness #8 (March 19th 2012) she was a minor, and further she was never asked, nor voluntarily gave her last name.

    Additionally, not only was Witness #8 not asked her name, but she was not asked her address or other such identifying characteristics.

    Lastly, according to the same sworn affidavit presented to the court, Mr. Crump, who is now by your judicial interpretation -a member of the state prosecutorial team- has claimed to have had no further contact with the Witness after March 19th.

    If Mr. Crump never asked for her name, and the witness was identified by her age of 16, and he had no further contact with her after their March 19th conversation, then how can the State assert it was the same witness who was later interviewed on April 2nd and physically presented herself to be 18-years-of age?

    If Mr. Crump is now a representative of the State, and the State is to be taken at their word to be truthful and honest, then how can this be reconciled?

    Would this not represent a fair question that can only be answered by the same person or persons who presented her, through her sworn affidavit, to this court -which subsequently led to the arrest of my client?

    Is the court now affirming that it is permissible for the “key” and “primary” state’s witness to be hidden or sheltered from questioning? And how can the State, or by extension this court, affirm to the accused that the identity of the person they will provide for deposition be the same person either party, Mr. Crump or Mr. De La Rionda have interviewed?

    The accused is being restricted from any identifying “any” characteristics of Witness #8 such as her address, despite the fact that the state has presented differing and actual physical accounts of this same witness.

    By granting Mr. Crump the protections of opposing counsel from deposition, the court is now restricting the accused from knowing, with certainty, the identity of his accuser – and simultaneously putting a road block in the quest for truth and justice by allowing the State to avoid having to reconcile the differing accounts of her personage.

    Is this your honor’s intent?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Dweebs. They don’t need to know her identity to prepare a defense. They can find out in court just like everyone else.

    • Unabogie says:

      Are they seriously alleging that the state is using a witness who is a different person than the young lady on the phone with Trayvon that night? Like literally not the same person?

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Yes they are, Unabogie. And they have elaborate theories about there being two Dee-Dees.

      • aussie says:

        I think they stumbled upon the theory of 2 DeeDees by sheer accident, ie when they found TWO WRONG GIRLS Twitter accounts thinking they were both DeeDee.

        That lot will seriously allege anything that pops into their head — that is where their reality is. The outside world is just a dangerous nuisance.

    • Tzar says:

      something about a man who represents himself…so…

    • Rachael says:

      He is getting crazier by the day. Who the heck does he think he is anyway?

    • fauxmccoy says:

      oh geez, colin. thanks for sharing that hot mess of a letter. someone sure is full of himself … otherwise known as fulla horseshit.

    • Jun says:

      You can be opposing counsel of Fogen and not be on the same team as the state

      Okay let us use basketball for example

      Atlanta Hawks vs La Lakers
      Atlanta Hawks vs Memphis Grizzlies

      I think it’s fair to say both Memphis and LA are opposing the Atlanta Hawks and they are not the same team, now are they?

    • truthseeker66 says:

      Why doesn”t sundance try the dam case? Oh wait he does not have a law degree…pesky technicoloty!!!!

    • type1juve says:

      Well they certainly have O’Mara’s number LMAO!

    • kllypyn says:

      he has done nothing but post lies about trayvon and his family. He cares nothing about the truth.her age is irrelevant.

  20. ay2z says:

    What about the two female black children who were claimed to have been babysat by Gladys Z in the home? One article (who knows if true or not) goes on to claim that one is studying medicine, and the other a PhD.

    Why does the Z nest not bring these two fine young women forward who were assisted in their fine upbringing by the Z household?

    Why wouldn’t they be excellent character witnesses, and could put W9’s statement to rest by testifying about their good memories?

    • Malisha says:

      Because they’re like the mentored kids — imaginary.

      Imaginary Blacks act so much nicer than the real kind.

      • Rachael says:

        Remember, they only like black people who act white, so since all these black mentored kids don’t act black, because they act white, they don’t count as “real” black people.

      • SoulSistaWoo says:

        Malisha says.. “Because they’re like the mentored kids — imaginary.

        Imaginary Blacks act so much nicer than the real kind.”

        LOL… Exactly!

        I have NEVER believed Fogen was mentoring anyone, much less two poor wittle black kids, from the slums, and according to Mama Z, Fogen was all they had in the world. Ridiculous!

        The mother first made this statenebt during the 1st Bond hearing… This ENTIRE Zimmerman clan are habitual liars… they lie and lie and lie some more for no reason at all. They are very sick… IMO!

      • SoulSistaWoo says:

        statenebt = statement

    • type1juve says:

      If the children do exist they may not have such fond memories of being in that household. Fogen preyed on his younger cousin… there could be more victims other than the one his cousin mentioned.

  21. ay2z says:

    Is it possible that there is a link between the person Serino said to fogen “she said something different, about his account of the argument, and W8? There was a number attached to this and some a story that suggested a chile age 8 was in a screened porch when the encounter happened. But Serino was trying to get fogen to come clean about what happened at the encounter/argument.

    Is this a second person who has been hidden successfully from the police from day one?

    Now we have, or ‘they’ the bretbarts and their minions, have Senior Robert Zimmerman the father, joining in with his suspicions and accusations of everyone surrounding Dee Dee.

    If Grace Zimmerman, as her father told Hannity, was texting her brotehr about him going to the grocery store, could she have texted anything about a young black male at their mail kiosk, someone who didn’t look like they were a resident out for their mail and returning quickly in the rain, then Grace has a role in the events that are part of priming the killer. She is not named at a witness, no one has attacked her, certainly not the state.

    Would the FBI or FDLE involvement been in time to seize text messages intact? And did they uncover a female witness who said something different, as Serino told fogen as early as the 29th of February?

    Senior z has accused this witness from the first, because of the delay in coming forward, didn’t believe she was on the phone with him. Now it’s ‘allegedly’ in his words, and racked with accusations in the form of questions at his website.

    What if the two female witnesses are one and the same? And what if threats came early, and something frightened this young lady to hold her story?

    Why have we not seen Grace Zimmerman come forward for her brother? It may be possible be that her actions on the 26th could be in conflict with professional ethics, the money shell game aside. And that junior and senior could be protecting his sister as much as brother.

    • truthseeker66 says:

      I don’t beleive grace has ever been questioned? I hope she is on the state’s witness list.

      • ladystclaire says:

        I hope Grace is charged for what ever part she may have played in this and, that includes playing musical bank accounts. these people should not be allowed to get away with their crimes and that includes, *the singing IDIOT.* it’s very shameful that the elder Z’s were lying about how she lost her job. she did not lose her job by being threatened the way they want the public to believe. she lost her job by being a criminal *THUG* for her part in moving money from one account to another. this is a family of liars and, the truth is not in them!

      • ay2z says:

        Am sure the FBI would have at least taken notes on all fogen’s close relatives.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I’m surprised that Jr. is so vocal, considering he played a role in the Peter Pan extravaganza.

      • aussie says:

        Why on earth would she be?????

        Do we eve know her name is Zimmerman?

        The Colonial Village call, IF that was indeed her living there, dates back to 2005, do any of you have any SHRED of evidence she still lives there?

        The “female witness who said different” is most likey W18. The ONE witness who DID see everything, and a lot more than what she said on her 911 call, is the school teacher W18. She lawyered up next day. Then went on TV (in a “shadow”) giving such a vague description of what she saw that she is totally safe from doxing. But she knows more.

        On the other hand saying “someone said otherwise, are you sure?” is an ancient trick for making someone modify their story, if this makes them believe someone DID see what really happened.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Yes, and now that he’s gone nutzo-vocal it becomes all the more curious. Maybe it’s the pressure of looming charges related to the shell game on the money and extra passport.

        What did Junior do for a living before he became the family spokesman? And are we to understand now that ex-government worker and Fogen sis Grace Zimmerman is not an immigration lawyer?

    • ay2z says:

      There is no Grace Zimmerman currently listed with the Florida Bar, and the immigration lawyer idea may be for a legitimate immigration lawyer who practices in California.

      • looneydoone says:

        Grace A Zimmerman, Immigration atty with her practice in La Jolla (San Diego) is NOT related to the defendant.

        It’s just another one of those internet rumors

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      I have a hunch W2’s daughter and/or her friend, may have seen it all. Their porch is screened in, and I got the impression they wanted to keep the kids out of it.

  22. I think this is disgusting and tragic. This man is mentally ill, and sometimes, it’s a matter of being a horrific tragedy. What are they going to gain by killing a man who was so disconnected from reality:

    New York Post ‏@nypost 2m
    Breaking: Prosecutors will seek death penalty against Colorado theater shooting suspect James Holmes
    Expand Reply Retweeted Favorite More

    • cielo62 says:

      Crane- I agree. This is purely a political gesture.

      Sent from my iPod

      • Trained Observer says:

        I agree — disgusting, tragic, and political.

        What concerns me, however, is how once an insanity plea is accepted or a not guilty by reason of insanity is rendered by a jury, the deranged sometimes are later deemed to be “all better now”, and suddenly they’re again walking among us.

        Case in point: Jodie Foster’s stalker John Hinckley Jr., who shot Jim Brady and Ronald Reagan. Since 2009, that guy now gets out of the bin for long “weekends” — up to 10 days at a time — and has a driver’s license for tooting around. Apparently he is required to carry a phone with GPS.

        (His family had political funding ties with Poppy Bush back in the ’80s, and John Jr. apparently was regarded as the “renegade brother” among Hinckley kids.)

        He and Fogen seem to have a few things in common — daddy’s with greater or lesser juice in political circles, crazy notions and desires to impress, and no compunction about targeting and shooting to kill or maim.

        Maybe he and Fogen could become pen-pals.

      • Prosecutor over there is a pro-lifer seeking to kill. Some of his views:

        Click to access GeorgeBrauchlerResponsesQ-A.pdf

      • Two sides to a story says:

        It’s a myth that the criminally insane are often declared all better and start walking among us. Some of these folks are held in regular prisons and others in facilities for the criminally insane, such as units in state mental hospitals. These are not pleasant places – I’ve seen the unit of the state hospital in AZ where the murderers are housed.

        • cielo62 says:

          Two Sides- Andrea Yates is still incarcerated while her scuzball of a husband got away Scott free without any accountability at all.

          Sent from my iPod

      • Two sides to a story says:

        John Hinckley Jr. probably is much better or they would never allow him some freedom. I doubt this is political but a case in which the perp’s mental health really did improve.

        The point of jailing people is supposed to be to rehabilitate them, ya know. Our culture has a bad habit of wanting to punish people forever and ever, even for small crimes as well as large.

        • cielo62 says:

          Two Sides- especially in Texas. The blood thirsty calls for Andrea Yates to be executed were sickening even though her mental illness was, and still is, very obvious.

          Sent from my iPod

      • Trained Observer says:

        It’s no myth that Hinckley is out running around.

        A shot at the President of the United States for whatever reason is pretty big, and that’s without even considering the ruination of Jim Brady’s career and personal life for himself and family. Hinckley should no be rewarded because his parents have clout and he’s feeling a little better now.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        The Texan mindset is outright scary, cielo. I have had a few verbal skirmishes with some, and I’m sure glad they’re not in control of anything or we’d see guillotines in our town squares. Their state record of executions is shameful.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        TO – Hinckley gave up a good 30 years of his life . . . he can’t be punished forever if he shows improvement. And he apparently has only partial freedom. Not that i’m supporting what he did in any way.

    • truthseeker66 says:

      Tragic indeed. This will also delay the healing process for the victims. Years upon years of motiona, having to releive the horror.

      • Yeah. There was a gun murder in my family (16 y/o male, actually) and none of us, well…the crime remains unsolved to this day, but the family didn’t want to kill someone else, because the reality is, we wanted him back, and killing wasn’t going to bring him back.

      • parrot says:

        “…we wanted him back …”


    • Two sides to a story says:

      They’ll suffer the karma of that decision. We’ll probably hear end of life regrets about the death penalty from these folks.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I’m responding here to Crane’s message about executing Holmes.

      • There’s gotta be.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Yeah Crane, if people dig deep, they’ll find that almost all state and prison officials involved in executions usually turn that position around and express their regrets later on in life. It’s not good to take life even in situations where it might appear to be logical.

  23. SearchingMind says:

    When the blind leads the blind

    The latest diatribe camouflaged as “legal analysis” from (at least according to Malisha) “a respected” criminal defense attorney is this exchange:

    “magster on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 11:34:48 AM EST

    I can’t get over thatbuying Skittles and Arizona iced tea can turn into a death sentence under Florida law. Looking more and more like GZ walks because TM was afraid enough to confront his armed stalker.

    Jeralyn on Fri Mar 29, 2013 at 12:23:35 PM EST

    stop with the misinformation (…). Martin did confront Zimmerman, with a punch that knocked him down. There are photos of his injuries. Future factually twisted and false comments will be deleted.”

    So, according to this internet genius, the “photo of injuries” prove that Trayvon (a) “did confront Zimmerman” (b) “with a punch” that (c) knocked him down”! Above all, this comment from our genius is (a) factual, (b) not twisted, and (c) not false?

    Hoooly Crap! And pls. do not bother going over there to tell her that the photos only prove that Zimmerman had very minor injury, but says completely nothing as to how he got it; that there is no shred of evidence that Trayvon caused those injuries; that forensic evidence suggests that Trayvon did not touch Zimmerman, etc. If you do, you are going to be in very serious trouble. Big one. Because, ya know, she is “a very well respected criminal defense attorney”, and she is extremely smart. No, not smart, that’s an indult. She is a genius! No kidding.

    • Malisha says:

      She’s gone dumb — what can I say? I was appalled that she believed the obviously, transparently false crap. That belief of the unbelievable is the sign of the “woman in love,” and that’s why I started making snide comments about her. Damn! It’s dumb.

      BTW, Did Selma or her room-mate notice any blood on Fogen right after the gunshot? Hmmmmm…

      What we DO know is that BDLR is not worried about the bloody nose or about the alleged head bonks. And we also know that O’Mara didn’t try to have a SYG hearing. How bout that for “factually twisted and false,” lover girl?

      I can see this indulted lawyer as a character in a detective novel. She provides the comic relief about every third chapter. She’s gonna be working real hard on Fogen’s appeals, watch.

      • Malisha says:

        Oh, another thing. When a person is bleeding from his nose, he instinctively wipes his nose with his hands, sleeves, anything. There would have been blood all over Fogen’s sleeves, all over his clothing, all over Trayvon Martin’s sleeves and cuffs and hands and fingernails, blah blah blah. The thing is undeniable at this point. The little smudgy catsup stuff on the tip of Fogen’s lil nosey wosey has nothing to do with the case.

      • SearchingMind says:

        Ya know, Malisha, a while ago, Lonnie opined that Fogen collected Trayvon’s blood and smeared it on his moustache. I think that theory is plausible.

        Btw. I know my fingers are terrible with the keyboard. But yours also? Maybe that’s a new word, but I have been searching for the meaning of ‘indulted’ – without success. Can you help me out 🙂 ?

        • cielo62 says:

          Searching Mind- LOL! Indultrd?

          Sent from my iPod

        • Xena says:


          Ya know, Malisha, a while ago, Lonnie opined that Fogen collected Trayvon’s blood and smeared it on his moustache. I think that theory is plausible.

          If you look at the direction of the blood on his head in the photo taken by Jon, it looks like a smearing across, and then down using 5 fingers — count the trails and their length compared to the length of each finger.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            What’s so ludicrous about the blood on the back of GZ’s head is, when I gave the defense the maximum time for the bleeding to have occurred within the frame created by GZ’s narrative; 3 minutes. I then get protests that the bleeding didn’t start right away. Of course, this is meant by the defense team (don’t want to address them in a pejorative fashion since that subtracts from the sense of my message), to explain why TM has no dna or other trace on his hands.

            Okay, so now the defense is denying me the 3 minutes I sought to give them, because, ( they could accuse me) of trying to create a self serving scenario. Okay, so let’s give them what they’ve asked for, and put the start of the bleeding after the gunshot. Then the picture of the blood trails is taken less than 1 minute after the blood flow starts. While that still doesn’t account for the lack of trace on TM’s hands, it also creates serious problems for the blood evidence having been faked. The blood is neither fresh nor flowing one minute after it starts??? Present that theory to a jury and I’m afraid GZ is toast because it doesn’t even sound reasonable.

            Since the defense is at a loss to prove that Trayvon caused the wounds GZ is wearing, the jurors will have to consider the alternative places the blood could have come from. The available evidence is: 1. Animal blood is detected on GZ’s clothes, therefore animal blood is a distinct possibility, since there is evidence that there was some available.
            2. Trayvon’s wounded body was seen in several different positions before the police arrive. Since the motions required to move the body from one position to the next, were not observed, it is reasonable to believe that GZ could, very well have scooped some of Trayvon’s blood and used that to smear himself.

            So, while there are many plausible theories as to where GZ’s blood and wounds came from. Where he claims they came from isn’t possible.

            Finally, if GZ was taking direction from anyone, that person or persons unknown were playing him for one gigantic sucker! They knew from the start that it was unlikely in the extreme, that any judge would grant him immunity based on his claims. So, they sought to keep the matter out of court by simply not filing charges and hoping that 180 days would pass quietly. They managed to keep the lid on for 46 days, but by then it had exploded across the nation and well onto the prime time media circuits, with such ferocity that the two lead players, the Police Chief and The County Prosecutor had to end their careers. READ ABOUT WOLFINGER HERE

          • SpecialladyT says:

            Lonnie, no matter which way you slice it the EMT’s clearly state that the wounds had stopped bleeding prior to their arrival.

            Therefore, the blood didn’t flow during the altercation, yet it stopped prior to the EMT arrival.

            Nothing makes sense.

          • manberk says:

            The EMTs described the blood as dried. They needed to wipe it clear to even find the wound. Of course he was exposed to the elements before being placed in the police car yet nothing washed away and there doesnt appear to be any breaks in the flow. I know there are those who say the rain must have washed TM clean, apparently not when looking at Fogen.

            I really have trouble understanding why they let Fogen wash up at the station but left the blood on his head remain for hours before taking a photo, for too many reasons to list. It seems like a image thats you’d want to preserve as close in time to the event as possible. And then it seems rather unsanitary and unhealthy to just ignore. There must have been some motivation.

          • SpecialladyT says:

            Lonnie, to allow fogen to go to the restroom, UNATTENDED to wash up or to be allowed to do anything prior to photo’s or swabbing for DNA is inexcusable and negligent on the part of the SPD.

            Also, I posted a comment asking the professor how to contact him privately. do you know how I can do that?

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @specialladyt — the easiest and most direct way to contact the professor from here is through the ‘donate’ button, which i highly encourage and you can send him a note there.

          • SpecialladyT says:

            Faux, thanks so much!!

          • Please check your email.

          • SpecialladyT says:

            Thank you, professor, I just a reply to your an email.

          • SpecialladyT says:

            Check your email.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Keep your eye on your email , he’ll probably answer you when he gets a chance. I know there’s a way to do it, you’ll have to poke around the site. But I’m sure he’ll read your message and respond.

            As far as the SPD’s failures, that’s all going to work against GZ because it all begins with a lie. GZ and the SPD didn’t think that it would ever be questioned where GZ’s wounds came from and what caused him to bleed. But, now that has come into question, we can see there is no proof that needs to be there and many questionable artifacts that prohibit assuming that there was any attack.

            What GZ should be doing about now is obtaining Florida prison rules and visiting hours and planning his future around that.

          • Xena says:


            I know there are those who say the rain must have washed TM clean, apparently not when looking at Fogen.

            That is a very stupid argument, isn’t it? Not only that, but Trayvon’s blood was found on the nail clippings from his right hand — nothing from his left-hand. I suppose that rain discriminates between right and left. (snark)

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Therefore, the blood didn’t flow during the altercation, yet it stopped prior to the EMT arrival.

            Nothing makes sense

            What does make sense is that the blood wasn’t caused by Trayvon, and the fact that he’s being blamed for it, means the attack claims are false!

            We know that GZ lies to avoid looking bad. I can’t see anything making him look worse than a 30 to life sentence, therefore it’s a certainty that he would lie to avoid it if he can. Therefore it makes sense that he would lie about the blood, in an effort to make it appear that the child attacked him.

            What doesn’t make sense is that, a bare handed attack by a child, is not something normal people, normally think of as deadly. So, while GZ understands this, he has to supply his own gun, and visions of having it taken away, as cause for himself to have panicked and been forced to fire the life draining shot.

            The trouble is his own lawyer MOM, knows that that is a stretch! He also knows that his client is lying like a rug! So, it makes sense that his lawyer doesn’t know what else to do, but while away the time with silly motions, designed to attract the funds of foolish donors, who have demonstrated an inability to understand what has happened and/or are simply focused on the same old racial issues they once were able to enforce. So MOM’s fund raising attempts make sense too.

            My guess is that the juries verdict is going to make sense, and so is the sentence the Judge pronounces on it, that too will make sense.
            The sight of GZ’s lawyers fleeing the courtroom will make sense, as will the struggle GZ puts up, in an effort to avoid starting his sentence, that too will make a lot of sense.

      • SearchingMind says:

        I love Bernie’s confidence. A lawyer is normally confident when he/she has done his homework and is prepared. But still then a healthy degree of uncertainty and anxiety linger in his/her mind – because, you never know exactly what the Court will do. But in this case, Bernie acts like he is certain of the outcome and is literarily pushing and dragging O’Mara to trial. And Bernie is neither boastful nor arrogant. When his type is overtly confident, beware!

        • manberk says:

          @SearchingMind For that reason I tend to believe BDLR and I trust he doesnt say things, especially in court, without facts/proof/evidence. I could be wrong but thats my instinct. So when he put things in motions like the last one, it only increases my confidence in his case. I believe everything he said. And it backs what I already thought.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @searchingmind — as it is/was your job to study the law, it was my job to study people as a student of anthropology. i realize there may be some overlap, but i agree with your assessment of BDLR wholeheartedly. he looks the part of the proverbial cat who’s swallowed the canary, one can practically see feathers fluttering from his mouth if looking closely 😉

          this is not to imply that either the court or jury is a done deal or even a breeze, but BDLR knows something the rest of us (including o’mara) does not.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        As a working attorney, JM has a vested interest in attracting criminal defense customers and she is also a CCW carrier. I suspect as an attorney who has worked on high profile cases, that she really has the jones for this one and wishes she was on it.

        She sure is mixing it up with some strange bedfellows!

        I often wonder at what point does JM finally throw in the towel and concede that she was dreadfully wrong? Or will she howl along with the Treestump when Fogen gets cuffed in the courtroom and led away?!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Trayvon bled very little externally. I’m sure Fogen’s nose produced enough for his smudge.

      • Dan Q. Smith says:

        “lover girl”- LOL! She’s positively delusional.

      • Rachael says:

        @fauxmccoy: “he looks the part of the proverbial cat who’s swallowed the canary, one can practically see feathers fluttering from his mouth if looking closely”

        I’ve always thought he had that look. And like SearchingMind says, he has a certain confidence that I just know is real.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Two Sides, in reference to the last line of your above comment, and that my friend will be a picture that would say a thousand words. ANY QUESTIONS!

      • The sleeve thing is true. Couple of weeks ago, I had an unexpected and sudden nosebleed (BP meds needed, turns out). There was blood everywhere, even on the walls, I really had difficulty stopping it. Anyway, the first instinct is to apply pressure, and wipe a sleeve or something across the face. This little bit of blood GZ had, I don’t know what the fuck, for real, still trying to make a big deal out of that. I actually ended up discarding the shirt- didn’t want to bother w/H2O2 because the shirt was old anyway.

        Also, seriously. How does he intend to explain the unexplainable shimmy during trial? The whole walk-through, for that matter.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        I have some questions about GZ’s other 911 calls, and I was wondering if additional information about those calls could be subject for a foia request.
        In the first place there are no calls included for 2008. If you look at 2007 and 2009, that seems odd.
        I also believe there are a couple of odd redactions. I tried to explain it here.

        What do you think?

      • Malisha says:

        Yes, ANYTHING the government does can be FOIA’d. If they don’t want to respond to the FOIA they can give a reason and there can be debate, dispute and even litigation over their reason. I know a lawyer who helped a guy FOIA stuff and it took almost 4 years and the guy got the stuff but on the way to getting it, he had been officially told three times that there was NOTHING to give him. 👿

        I’ll revisit my FOIA’s in a couple of weeks. Refresh.

      • amsterdam1234 says:


    • PYorck says:

      Keep in mind that she doesn’t even claim to be objective. She is pro-defense — and she doesn’t mean pro-Zimmerman but pro-any-defendant-anywhere-ever. She has adopted him as her pretend client.

      • Pro-defense at all costs can sometimes not be pro-defendant. Never thought I’d say this, but there are actually some cases where plea dialogue might be in the better interest of the client. For example, that Michael Dodd comes to mind:

      • SearchingMind says:

        Jeraly makes no secret of the fact that she colludes and shears information with Diwataman and the TCTH. More than 98% of the commenters on topics regarding Trayvon on the Jeralynsite are from the TCTH (and they comment exclusively on topics regarding Trayvon).

        I don’t see Jera defending that teenager who is accused of shooting a 13 month old baby in the face. Given the mysterious circumstances surrounding that baby’s murder and the fact that the teenage suspect has been charged as an adult, etc. One would think that this would be a classical Jeralyn-case. But nope, Jera is MIA.

        I don’t don’t think Jera ever defended Doely (I am not sure I have his name correct).

        And I don’t see Jera defending Dunn, etc.

        I think Jera is hiding behind a lot of jargons (such as “liberal lawyer”, the principle of “innocence until proven guilty”, etc.) to hide whatever motives of hers that make her defend the indefensible, use passive aggression/intimidation against witnesses and make caricature of the father and mother of a child victim (suggesting that they may have committed witness tampering and perjury, etc.).

    • Saw that. Thought about asking where she studied medicine, but refrained because as a matter of policy, we do not comment at that site. Since the person is a defense attorney we respect that she has her views, and do not wish to disrupt her threads. But still. That the photo proves that GZ was attacked and knocked down? Wow. I can think of several dozen trauma docs at teaching institutions, right off the top of my head, who would refute that statement.

      • Unabogie says:

        And what’s really ironic about that is that being knocked down by a punch in the nose doesn’t help George’s case.

        “Zimmerman: And I said, Hey man, I don’t have a problem. And he goes, No, now you have a problem. And he punched me in the nose. At that point I fell down, ah I tried to defend myself, he just started punching me in the face. And, ah, I started screaming for help, I couldn’t see, I couldn’t breathe. Then he started taking my head..
        Singleton: Are you still standing at this point?
        Zimmerman: No ma’am.
        Singleton: OK.
        Zimmerman: I fell to the ground when he punched me the first time.
        Singleton: OK.
        Zimmerman: It was dark. I didn’t even see him getting ready to punch me. As soon as he punched me, I fell backwards, um, into the grass, and then he grabbed, he was whaling on my head”

        If you take him at his word here, there’s no way to explain why the body, and 90% of the evidence is 50 feet from where this all happened. If he immediately fell down, then how does everything move so far?

        Also, my theory on the debris field is that the flashlight and cell phone were what both people had IN THEIR HANDS at the start of the scuffle. That means that the first things to drop are what they were holding. That shows the fight started near the body, not the T. Furthermore, a witness saw George stand up after the first flashlight man came upon him and walk up to about six feet from the T. My contention is that he killed Trayvon, searched his body for a weapon, and then when he didn’t find one, he grabbed his keys and used the tiny flashlight to look on the ground. When the police arrived, he put his hands over his head:

        “And, uh, then an officer shows up, again he had the flashlight so I couldn’t see him. And he asked me, uh, Who shot this guy? And I said, I did. And I put, I immediately put my hands on top of my head, and I told the police officer where my firearm was.”

        That’s when he dropped the keychain, since when a cop tells you to put your hands up, you drop whatever is in them to avoid being shot.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          unaboogie says

          If you take him at his word here, there’s no way to explain why the body, and 90% of the evidence is 50 feet from where this all happened.

          that would be the super-zimmy-shimmy i believe :/

        • LOL, yeah. LOVE that. My absolute fav in the walk-thru is that 40 feet of totally unaccounted for Shimmy!


          • cielo62 says:

            Crane~ IF GZ had said something like “I was thrown back” MAYBE one could envision Dynamite Trayvon as having punched him with enough force to knock him back some 40 feet. But nope! “I fell down right there.” Yep. 40 feet from the evidence.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Typically males of Trayvon’s weight, height and age, are unable to lift much more than 25 lbs easily. While typically adult males of GZ’s height, weight and age are able to lift well over 150 lbs or more. Which is about the weight of Trayvon’s entire body.

            That means that GZ could easily push Trayvon around and just as easily maintain control of him from the point of contact onward. Trayvon hasn’t the strength to resist GZ at all. a kinesiologist will be better able to assess this.

      • Unabogie says:


        Ah, but that doesn’t explain why the back of his pants and jacket are grass and mud free.

        Amazing, that you can shimmy on wet grass in the rain for 50 feet and not get any mud on those clothes, eh?

        • cielo62 says:

          Unabogie- what? You never heard of care-free clothes? LOL!

          Sent from my iPod

        • fauxmccoy says:

          unaboogie says

          Amazing, that you can shimmy on wet grass in the rain for 50 feet and not get any mud on those clothes, eh?

          yeah, that’s what makes it ‘super’ …. as in super unbelievable.

      • manberk says:

        Even if he shimmied 50 feet, he’d still have to get his flashlight and TMs phone about 10 more feet down the path, then he’d have to shimmy back. There is nothing in Fogens story that explains how they got so far away. And how does all this happen while ones holding a phone, and the other a non working tactical illuminator?

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Unabogie, he didn’t even *skin* up his pristine clothing while, while he was doing all of that shimmying. or was it the boot scooting boogie? this village IDIOT is the biggest liar I have ever seen in my life. he even out lies Casey Anthony.

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      I have a question. How does the defense introduce the photos if GZ doesn’t take the stand? Shouldn’t somebody testify how the blood got on his face?

      • ay2z says:

        EMT non-paramedic, prior witness on the stand, can do that. He can explain how he poured hydrogen peroxide to wash out all the blood from fogen’s eyes. (that won’t do much, except prove Kev has no idea what he’s doing and shouldn’t be allowed near peroxide).

        And he can testify to what fogen told him, just like all these other people have been doing on Fox and everywhere lese that will allow it. Put people in front of a camera and put fogen’s words in their mouth, and fogen becomes credible.

        (snark warning)

        • fauxmccoy says:

          ay2z says

          And he can testify to what fogen told him …

          defense attorney may try that route, but it would be objected to as hearsay. the only person who can testify as to how the injuries were received is zimmerman … unless another live human being comes forward and confesses to having laid a can of whupass on the defendant.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Of course GZ has to worry about MMA guy, since the jury will certainly want to know about why he retracted his earlier more detailed observations. Oh, yeah, he just selected the wrong words that painted an unintended picture, LOL

            [You know your call is important to them when they
            provide an offshore automated call tree to handle your call]

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        I wonder about that. The EMT has no knowledge about how and when GZ got his injuries. I think that if the prosecution doesn’t enter the photos, the defense will have a difficult time getting them into evidence.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        amsterdam — the people who took the photos can be called to the stand to lay the foundation for entering photos into evidence. they can testify that they took the photos and what the defendant looked like.

        the only one who can testify how the ‘injuries’ were received would be the defendant, which opens him up to cross examination …. between a rock and a hard place.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        But shouldn’t there be a reason to enter these photos into evidence? So w13 made a photo of the back of GZ’s head and Wagner made a photo of his face. Both of them can testify that they made the photos, but neither can testify to what caused the injuries and when GZ got them. So what would be the relevance of these photos, if it is not to claim GZ got some injuries?

        • Xena says:


          Both of them can testify that they made the photos, but neither can testify to what caused the injuries and when GZ got them. So what would be the relevance of these photos, if it is not to claim GZ got some injuries?

          Well, that’s the problem GZ has by claiming self-defense. He is the only person who can testify that he believed the injuries were life-threatening. That also means that he has a serious problem during cross-examination because he stated that he had removed his head off the concrete. (No more danger of head injuries.)

          He also stated that he pinned Trayvon’s arm, placing him in a wrist lock, which means that when GZ killed Trayvon, GZ was not in any danger of Trayvon getting the gun, neither in any physical danger of Trayvon using his hands to bring about further injury.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            The prosecution will want to avoid “overkill”, so they’ll simply lay out a clear case for Murder 2 and let the defense attempt to deconstruct it.

            Each time the defense sallies fourth with some theory that the prosecutions case may be compromised by doubt, the SP will sally fourth with evidence that the defense is relying on lies, questionable evidence, evidence that doesn’t really exist or was retracted. Everything the defense raises to defend themselves will be shown to be compromised, questionable or impeached. In the end, MOM will have nothing to devise his summation around but emotional pleadings and/or irrelevancies.

            Look for MOM’s summation to include lots of dramatic table banging, hands whirling furiously in the air, wildly contortion-ate facial expressions and loud, demanding assertions, with little if any real meaning. In short, a performance that would make a Big Top’s Ring Master proud.

            The clue about how badly MOM’s case has gone, will be seen in how little material MOM brings to court with him that day. Less to pack, the faster to run, leaving the courtroom before GZ is dragged, kicking and screaming into the detention cells in the back. I can’t wait to hear MOM say, in a loud clear voice: “Notice of Appeal!!!” Hahaha… While GZ clutches desperately at his coat tails and MOM pulls frantically away.

          • Xena says:

            @Lonnie Starr

            I can’t wait to hear MOM say, in a loud clear voice: “Notice of Appeal!!!” Hahaha… While GZ clutches desperately at his coat tails and MOM pulls frantically away.

            IMO, GZ is more likely to grab MOM around the throat. I do hope that the court has an ambulance waiting at the time of the jury’s decision, because GZ is going ballistic when hearing, “We the jury …. find the defendant, George Michael Zimmerman, guilty of murder in the 2nd degree.”

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Don’t worry, MOM isn’t stupid, he’s going to have West standing between himself and GZ, and court officers will quietly drift into positions nearby. If GZ should go berzerk note how quickly MOM manages to get to the other side of the courtroom. This is the one move attorney’s are practiced at performing. Once GZ is subdued, then MOM will announce, as if nothing had happened “Notice Of Appeal herewith”, then the attorneys, jurors and the judge quickly vanish from the scene, leaving GZ struggling in vain to prevent being forced through the detention cell door.

            He’ll have one more appearance for sentencing, but for that he’ll be wearing chains.

          • cielo62 says:

            And THAT will be a picture to cherish (GZ in chains).


          • racerrodig says:

            I don’t know about any other State, but in NJ the Sheriff’s officers in the court as security always mosey on over to the Defendant seconds before the verdict is read and I’d almost tend to think they were advised as to what the verdict is.

            In NJ when the word “guilty” is said they immediately cuff the defendant….and I mean immediately.

          • cielo62 says:

            Racer- for a murder 2, GZ won’t be able to stay out on bond while appealing , right?

            Sent from my iPod

          • racerrodig says:

            In NJ I believe he’d have to wait in prison with any murder conviction. Some lesser crimes they are out on Bail, but Murder is a lot different. At least I’ve never seen it.

            I’d say because he is a certifiable flight risk, bail would be revoked no matter what………….so,he’s done.

          • cielo62 says:

            Racer- GOOD! I can hear them chains a’clankin’!

            Sent from my iPod

          • racerrodig says:


            III=> Tick – Tock Clink – Clank <+III

          • Lonnie Starr says:


            Justice for Trayvon
            Hoodies up!!!
            |||=> Tick Tock! Clink Clank <-|||

          • racerrodig says:

            “Justice for Trayvon”

            “Hoodies up!!!”

            “|||=> Tick Tock Clink Clank <+|||"

            Looks like we have a lot of solidarity expressions, but the one that certainly says a lot is

            "Must really suck to be Fogen about now"

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          The relevance is to show the condition that GZ was found in when the police arrived.

          If GZ was not such an unreliable witness himself, then one could assume it to be credible that GZ obtained the injuries as he claimed, and that these injuries actually are an indication that he fended off a lethal attack.

          Unfortunately for GZ, he has totally and completely destroyed his own credibility, by creating super tanker loads of serious impeachment material. Thus, another route must be found to connect these injuries to the assault GZ claims he suffered. But, since there are no other witnesses to this claimed assault other than GZ, he’s the only one who can connect these injuries to TM.

          In fact, every claim of danger, risk and threat of death GZ suffers is dependent upon his own words being believed. Alas, his own words cannot be believed because he has proven himself to be a baldfaced liar by potent and convincing public demonstrations.

          I’m afraid it will not be possible, therefore, for him to convince a jury, that an untrained, timid and happy child, weak and in fear for his life from the actions of a big, strong, heavy, and violent, armed and combat ready adult, was able to deck him with one feeble child punch, then pin his 207 lbs to the ground with his lightweight body, and operating in a position of great instability, somehow managed to mount a lethal and frightening attack, so fierce that only the discharge of a carefully aimed firearm, was needed to save his own life.

          Understandably no mentally capable human being, lawyer or otherwise, would want to be required to take such a tale before a jury, and bet their life on being believed. But that is exactly what GZ has done, and MOM latched on to this high profile case, thinking he could be a benefactor of the celebrity. Unfortunately everything planned and/or hoped for of benefit has been extinguished by a series of bumbling missteps that have empowered and enraged his opponents and depressed and demoralized his supporters.
          |||=> Tick Tock! <-|||

      • Xena says:


        I have a question. How does the defense introduce the photos if GZ doesn’t take the stand? Shouldn’t somebody testify how the blood got on his face?

        The defense would need to call to the stand, the persons who took the photos; i.e. Wagner and Jon.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        But isn’t the foundation for entering these photos into evidence, that GZ claims he was injured in his altercation with Trayvon. Shouldn’t that be the order evidence gets introduced. First the claim by GZ that he was injured, then the evidence showing that he had injuries?

        • fauxmccoy says:

          no, amsterdam. the photos, if they are entered, will be done so by the person who took the photo. they are the only people who can testify that they took that photo and that is the only way it can be entered. if defense tries to get either witness jon or officer (forgot his name) to describe how defendant got injuries, it will be objected to as hearsay because no one (that we know of so far) other than zimmerman can speak to that.

          photos entered when photographers testify.
          defendant injuries must be accounted for by defendant.

        • Xena says:


          But isn’t the foundation for entering these photos into evidence, that GZ claims he was injured in his altercation with Trayvon.

          That is GZ’s defense but since he is not having an immunity hearing, and if he does not take the stand at trial, the photos can only be introduced by the defense by calling the witnesses that took the photos.

          Shouldn’t that be the order evidence gets introduced. First the claim by GZ that he was injured, then the evidence showing that he had injuries?

          Since O’Mara is not holding an immunity hearing, the State first argues its case in chief. The State may or may not call witnesses to testify of GZ’s injuries. Once the State presents expert forensic testimony of the lab reports, GZ’s injuries will not carry any credibility in justifying the use of deadly force.

          It’s up to O’Mara and West to present GZ’s defense. Any witnesses that O’Mara calls are subject to cross by the State. Then the State presents its rebuttal witnesses.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        Maybe I am saying something stupid here, but couldn’t these photos be considered prejudicial?

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        What is the relevance of these photos other than GZ’s injuries? They had working cameras? I can see these photos being allowed into evidence after GZ has testified when and how he got his injuries. Of course after that Wagner and W13 would have to testify that they made those photos before they can be entered into evidence.
        Without GZ testifying about his injuries, aren’t those photos themselves hear say?

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          There are two issues here. 1. Is that the pictures show the state of gz at a particular point in time. But, his condition at any point in time has to be explained as the result of some action, event or activity.

          So, 2. A witness is needed to testify that gz’s condition in the picture, was caused by some action, act or person.

          Now, before gz had a witness willing to testify that he saw gz being beaten MMA style. But, that witness has since retracted his claims. So that now, the only one able to make the first hand claim that Trayvon caused the injuries depicted in the pictures, is gz himself.

          So, if gz doesn’t take the stand, there’s no one to make the claim that Trayvon caused the injuries gz displays. Which, just so happens to reinforce the evidence that Trayvon’s hands and sleeves lack any evidence that he even touched gz. This simplifies the jurors task enormously. |||=> Tick Tock! <-|||

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        Could a photo that was taken the day after the incident be presented as evidence?

        • Xena says:


          Could a photo that was taken the day after the incident be presented as evidence?

          Good question, but if I’m correct, since photos were taken by the police the night of the killing, and GZ refused to go to the hospital, any subsequent photos would have no relevancy.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        Thanks. I still don’t get why the photos taken that night have relevance without testimony that he got the injuries as a result of the altercation. Without his testimony he may have injured himself before or after the altercation. I guess that’s why I am not a lawyer.

        • Xena says:


          Thanks. I still don’t get why the photos taken that night have relevance without testimony that he got the injuries as a result of the altercation.

          If GZ does not testify, those photos will have no relevance. Those taking them can testify that they did so, but they cannot give interpretation of the injuries.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        But that is assuming that he will testify. If he doesn’t get on the stand, none of his statements will get in. All the jury will know is that he jumped out of the car, that they heard him say “fucking coons”, that he said yes when Sean asked if he was following Trayvon, that he ignored Sean when he said we don’t need you to do that. That GZ didn’t want to be pinned down, by waiting for the police, near the mailboxes.
        The next thing the jury will hear are those terrified screams and the shot. If GZ doesn’t get on the stand, the jury will never hear GZ claiming how his head was banged and how he was screaming for help.
        Who do you think the jury will think was screaming? W1, w5, w16 say they saw GZ on top immediately following the shot. W12 and w18 saw him on top when the shot was fired.
        He doesn’t get on the stand, he can’t tell the story how he jumped on top of Trayvon after he shot him.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          If he does take the stand, is there any real chance that the jury will believe his tall tale? Not only does his story not match the evidence, but he’s impeached already. So, all the defense has is a proven liar, reciting a tale that no evidence supports and that even many witnesses refute.

          In my estimation, he has a better chance of winning the power ball 1st prize without buying a ticket.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        I liked your graphic description of the trial. I’ll keep that picture in my head.😃

      • amsterdam1234 says:


        So Wagner and W13 on cross that they don’t know how or when GZ got his injuries.

        Doctors and emt’s were his injuries life threatening.
        Zimmerman clan claiming it was GZ screaming.

        That would be GZ’s defense without him getting on the stand. Right?

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Yep, and his “defense” has him in the process of committing a crime in progress all the time, so if he does obtain these wounds, it’s justified. Heck, I could even theorize that GZ got his wounds, from someone who attempted to come to Trayvon’s assistance, until GZ scared them off with his weapon. Who knows? Maybe that guy was shot by one of GZ’s assistants and thrown in the trunk of another vehicle and carted quickly away. Possible isn’t it?

          GZ supporters need to learn that when you allow your own side to play without needing evidence, the same goes true for the other side.
          So, if they want to dream up more DD’s I can dream up more GZ assistants. LOL.

    • Jun says:

      So what if he has injuries?

      They are incredibly minor and it does not take out and conclude the fact that he could have staged his injuries either after killing that kid or he showed up to the scene with premade injuries to use to stage and bolster a self defense claim

      There’s also a fact that he was heard stalking and chasing a kid by car and with a firearm and a flashlight, so his injuries could have been a result of the victim using self defense and since the defendant would be the aggressor in that situation, he gets no self defense claim

      I do not believe he had a broken nose or even a bloody nose. When you get in an altercation and your nose gets busted or hit, blood gets everywhere and it bleeds profusely. The blood was just dried off on the tip of the nose and it did not make it past his bottom lip. I am liable to think he simply smeared blood on himself to bolster a self defense claim. There’s also no splatter and cast off anywhere, which also goes against his broken nose theory and there is no dna transfer on the victim’s hands, sleeves, or cuffs, so he could not have touched the defendant at all.

    • Malisha says:

      “Indult” Definition: An adult insult.

      That is, instead of calling somebody “poopy-head,” you call them “homo fecalocephalus.”

    • Two sides to a story says:

      When I had a bad nosebleed from getting punched in the face, my instinct was to cup my hands underneath my nose to catch it and then run to the kitchen sink and let it bleed copiously down the drain.

    • cielo62 says:

      Parrot- thank for the story! Redemption can be at hand for nearly anybody. More people die unshriven. I believe GZ will be in the latter group.

      Sent from my iPod

  24. 2dogsonly says:

    He was on the phone at the store, at counter he answers his headset.

  25. bettykath says:

    Thanks for this post. It’s a good idea to let those attempting to intimidate her know that they could be facing prison.

    • Malisha says:

      If there was anything REALLY wrong with DeeDee we would certainly have heard from a bunch of her classmates and the parents of her friends and classmates, who would certainly have already contacted the defense with all kinds of nasty stories about her. Same is true of Trayvon. If there was REALLY any dirt on him, there would have been folks popping up in Miami Gardens and squawking to the Outhousers already. Now they’ll probably “create” some personas they insist are saying true things about them (and others) but who are afraid to give their real names because of the Black Mob. But think about it: If there was anything, it would be in the public eye already and would have BEEN there since March last year. If the school did not have PLENTY on Fogen OTHER THAN the Trayvon Martin incident, they would have been sooooooo sued already. What we are seeing is the presence of something whose absence would have tripped a thousand wires.

      • Malisha says:

        Ooops. We’re seeing the absence of something whose presence would have tripped a thousand wires.

        Fogen: You killed a kid for your own egotistical pleasure. You’re going to have to pay for that, and ultimately, not even “Bro Bobby” is going to benefit from it.

      • manberk says:

        @malisha so true, and not for lack of effort. Remember that his security team also provided private investigation and we know from emails supplied in that suit they were asked to find dirt on TM. It would make sense that they investigated DD too. It seemed they were unsuccessful. And we all know how hard the base looked. Theres no beef there, compared to the cow that is Fogen.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Yes. It’s been clear for quite some time that Fogen and the defense are desperate.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        The CTH crew has been claiming the past few days that they know someone who is going to reveal Trayvon’s juvenile records. That would have to be illegal if they do exist.

      • kllypyn says:

        People have come out of the woodwork with the nasty things Zimmerpunk has done to people. No one has had anything negative to say about trayvon.

      • Nellie Nell says:

        Agreed! And we would have heard about the evils of Tryvon on Feb 27, 2012. That means that we would have certainly never heard of this case. Trayvon’s parents are seeking justice because they know that their kid would not and did not attack a grown 250 lb stranger for no reason at all!

        On the other hand, has anyone heard from “After we mentored the kids before going to the grocery store as customary every Sunday evening”? I mean, whatever happened to the kids, their parents or guardians that surely would have had some good things to say about these wonderful people that mentored their children, no? (very strong sarcasm) When are we going to learn about these kids and how it was that he wrapped up his mentoring before heading out to Target? How did they get home and when did they leave his house that dark rainy Sunday night?

        • racerrodig says:

          Trust me, they mentored no one.

          • Nellie Dell says:

            I support Trayvon Martin. I speak on fb about it. I have been doxed but they can’t find me so they doxed my family. I know Zimmerman supporters are doxing DD. They have failed. There is another person posting on this thread who is one of my harassers and they used my name as the do on fb except they make it a taught page. These Zimeerman supporters are out of control.

          • racerrodig says:

            They are way out of control and they’re everywhere, not in great numbers, but their racist hatred drives them. This is a quest for them. They have a serious problem with accepting that their hero just stalked Trayvon and murdered……and got caught !!! And admitted he killed him…..and the evidence shows that… contrast to his “..I’ll make this kid into a thug…” crap.

  26. jo says:

    just curious. Did mum and dads charity site become active recently in anticipation of Jnr’s racist fans wanting to reward them with $$$…funny timing

    • kimmi says:

      Seems more than just a coincidence, imo.

    • Xena says:

      Maybe their webmaster became knowledgeable of Junior’s racist rants and decided to have nothing more to do with that family, requiring Papa Zim to find another webmaster and announce it.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Hope this scummy family of perverts finds itself increasingly shunned.

        • Xena says:

          @Trained Observer

          Hope this scummy family of perverts finds itself increasingly shunned.

          It’s very odd that a retired judge would have to go from hotel to hotel — no friends with retirement or vacation homes to put them up?

          With 24/7 security at $7,000 a week, GZ and ShelLIE could not live with GZ’s parents so they would all have security in one place rather than paying for extended stay hotel rooms? Seems as though the Zimmermans were shunned and a divided family long before GZ killed Trayvon.

      • Trained Observer says:

        BTW, the Gladazz and Boobles whine site states that among all the other woes heaped upon them …

        “In addition, our daughter had to leave a government job she truly loved.”

        How many kids did this sorry duo breed? Is this Grace, newly of neighboring complex fame? If so, wonder what government job … and if she quit or got sacked after the jailhouse phone call collusion surfaced.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        It’s hard to gauge how much of this is voluntary vacating jobs or truly getting sacked.

        • Xena says:

          @Two sides

          It’s hard to gauge how much of this is voluntary vacating jobs or truly getting sacked.

          For GZ, he was required to bring a police report and medical statement to his job. We know he went and was seen by a physician’s assistant, but don’t know if he was able to get a police report establishing his story of being mugged. If GZ failed to comply with his employer’s request, he would not be allowed to return to work.

          Strange — in all of his payments of debts, there is no payment for Cobra, so he apparently didn’t care about continuing his health insurance.

          Junior made a statement that he resigned his job due to threats. That is strange since even presently, no one knows where he was employed nor what type of work he did. He also stated that he was with ShelLIE 24/7 after GZ was arrested. (LLMPapa has that on video.) He could have taken leave from work, or resigned.

          • cielo62 says:

            Xena~ Wasn’t GZ underemployed as an insurance adjuster at the time?

          • onlyiamunitron says:

            “Wasn’t GZ underemployed as an insurance adjuster at the time?”

            He may have been some sort of investigator (perhaps nothing more glamourous than making sure forms were filled out properly) for Digital Risk, but I doubt he was an actual adjuster.

            Unless the job has changed considerably from what I grew up watching, a real, ethical, professional insurance adjuster does not sit in an office (their office is usually the front passenger seat of their vehicle), nor do they get off at 5 pm everyday. It’s more like 7 or 8 am to 6 to 8 pm, at least 5 days per week, making sure the customers and the company are both dealt with fairly and in accordance with the terms of the policy.


          • Xena says:

            @Cielo62. GZ was employed by Digital Risk that deals in mortgages.

          • cielo62 says:

            Xena- a paper pusher, in other words.

            Sent from my iPod

      • aussie says:

        No, it looks like their hosting company went out of business, the domain itself was listed as deleted and the name was being advertised as available again. Back in early February. This fits in with what R wrote on the new one. Of course they could have got a better more reliable one for a bit more money, but they are so broke……….. web hosting starts at $10 a year for small sites.

        • Xena says:

          @ Aussie. Thanks for the info. It also appears that the domain name is set to expire in July of this year, so maybe Papa Zim doesn’t plan on keeping the site after GZ is sentenced.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        My bet’s with that, Xena!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Didn’t he work in some sort of insurance company when he shot Trayvon?

      • SpecialladyT says:

        Another site under the same name (B&G) was put up 3/25 Aiding and Abetting to yet another ATTACK on Attorney Crump and DD.

        These people are inhumane and I fear for DD’s well being and life every single day.

      • groans says:

        The killer’s parents’ website has a new article dated 3/25/13. The article begins with this:

        Thank you for visiting. I sincerely apologize for issues with this homepage.

        I hired an individual to create and host this homepage. Unfortunately, the individual was not as ‘expert’ as he claimed. Further, although I paid for hosting, that service was only provided intermittently.

        Made me wonder if the “individual” they hired was their killer son. Just a thought….

      • groans says:


        The killer’s male parent (author of the above-referenced article) demonstrates his own extraordinary capacity for PROJECTION, writing:

        Are [Trayvon’s] parents complicit in the dissemination of completely false information…?

        We can only guess the answers. Unfortunately, the mainstream media has continually disseminated false and misleading information, without researching or challenging the information’s source.

        As they say:
        “The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree!”

      • Malisha says:

        If every collateral statement made by any friend of relative of Fogen were subjected to the kind of investigative scrutiny that DeeDee’s “hospital” comment was subjected to, we wouldn’t have a single one of them left standing. All their “lost jobs” and “hate mail” and “threats” and “blah blah blah” are made up just like the broken nose and the head-slams on the sidewalk. They’re a bunch of liars and a bunch of losers. But nobody checks their lies; nobody follows up on their fantasy visits; nobody looks behind their statements.

        From “I was mentoring kids” forward, they’re a huge community made of houses of cards. And I don’t mean thank-you cards.

    • Jun says:

      More than likely

      That KKKlan are always plotting and scheming and blaming everyone else for their problems

      Grace likely got fired because a government job, you need to be trusted, and if she is plotting and scheming with a homicide defendant to hide money and a passport by structuring, it will lead to a pink slip

      • Malisha says:

        I don’t believe that ANY of them lost their jobs because of this case, not even Fogen. They all either voluntarily left their jobs or did something that caused some problems at work (such as attacking co-workers for not joining in their delusions about the bad Black mob crucifying their Fogenoochiboy). I do not for one minute believe any of them were forced to leave their employment because of the prosecution.

        NOW, having said that, look at something weird. Fogen’s school just plain up and kicks him OUT as soon as word gets out about his having killed Trayvon Martin. NOT ONE WORD is said about that. The school does not get sued. He was allegedly in his last track ready for graduation, and yet, he doesn’t carry on about how unfair that was. We hear nothing on Hannity, nothing anywhere, Total deafening silence…

        Somebody done him wrong and he ain’t said squeak about it?

        Huh? What’s up with that?

      • Trained Observer says:

        Malisha — you’re right on how nobody’s moaned over the school swift-booting.

        Due to status as a flunking dunce, maybe Fogen’s formal separation papers already were in the works prior to Trayvon’s murder. All the dean had to do was slap on the DISMISSED stamp.

  27. acemayo says:

    where did TM go after he left the store
    did he make it to his father girlfriend mailbox area before he caught in the
    down pour of rain
    this can easy be found by looking at all the security carmera in that
    area and TM father girlfriend clubhouse security carmera looking
    at the pool area to see when it star raining real hard
    Therefore we get a time base when it started raining, use the security carmera
    at the store as the time he left the store.
    Find out how long will take to get to the nearst mail box
    And the one where father girlfriend mailbox is
    We can also use his phone call to DeeDee to Place him
    where he was after he left the store
    Because he was not on the phone in the store
    Fact one we known what time he left the store
    Fact two we know what time he call DeeDee by his and her phone bill
    Find out how long it takes for him to
    A. Walk to the nearest mailbox Area to the father mail box area
    B. A Fast pace walk to the nearest mailbox Area to the father mail box area
    C. Fast pace and running to the nearest mailbox Area to the father mail box area
    If TM est time of arrive will put him at which mail box area he was near
    One thing it is for sure it took some amount of time to get there
    As I say before we know the time he left the and the time he was shot

    • Romaine says:

      the walk from colonial village to retreatview circle, by way of hill wood drive the cross road in front of the mail kiosk located in the colonial complex is 2 mins driving / walking takes 8 minutes. this would mean taking the route of north on hill wood, turning right on oregon avenue, the 1st right onto twin trees lane, then the first right on to retreat view circle which is listed as restricted usage road…
      ? what does restricted usuage road mean???

      • Xena says:


        ? what does restricted usuage road mean???

        Probably that only residents can enter because of the gate that requires a code to open.

    • pat deadder says:

      ToAcemayo Actually Trayvon was on the phone when he was in the store.Another thing I’m confused about we all call Brandy his girlfriend.I could be wrong god knows but wasn’t she on Dr.Phil when Osterman was and said her and Tracy had been together for 14 years and married for 7.I think the prosecution has information we don’t know about’Personally I have a lot of faith in BDLR.To me it’s still water runs deep. And when Omara goes on his rants in court BDLR shows no expression until he speaks.Now I can more understand why Trayvon was out of breath he ran further than we thought.Hope this makes sense.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        You’re confusing Brandy, Tracy’s GF and Tracy’s wife, Alicia, whom he was still married to when Trayvon was murdered.

      • pat deadder says:

        to Two sides yes I said Brandy meant to say Alicia who is his wife of 7 years not his girlfriend.Thank you.Sometimes I have information overload or something.

    • aussie says:

      people have been working on these figures for 12 months.

      A good place for you to start would be this site from Tchoupi, a good guy ( an engineer) from bcclist, which is the blog that started the serious mapping.

      It’s a good starting point on the outlines of the situation. The top map shows the locations of all the witnesses.

      There is a complicated bit in the middle, the result of weeks of work analysing the passing lights from those security videos, to work out which car went where.

      Further down are two official printouts from the two closest weather stations, showing wind speed and rainfall.

      Amazingly, that site has had close on 121,000 views, yet so few seem to know the data that is on it.

  28. I sincerely hope that anyone who participates in the coming effort to intimidate Dee Dee will be charged, convicted and sentenced to a very long and unpleasant time in prison.


  29. Two sides to a story says:

    Thank you, Professor and Crane for your continuing courage. As warriors, we are all here to support you as well as the memory of Trayvon.

    Hoodies up!

  30. Excellent post, Professor.

  31. acemayo says:

    By LLMPapa Video
    By DeeDee owns word TM was at another mailbox not near his
    faher girfriend home mailbox when he saw GZ

    To me it makes sense that TM went to the nearest place for shelfer
    to get out of the rain after he left the store.
    Question 1.
    Was TM clothes soaking wet when he was shot if it was it could mean he
    walk in an pouring rain to get to the mail box,where his father stays.
    My understanding it has stop raining real hard when he was shot.
    Question 2
    If TM clothes was damp close to dry when he was shot then after he
    left the store he must went somewhere other than his father girfriend
    mailbox palce to ge out of the rain.
    Question 3
    If TM was casing out housing wouldn’t his shoes and pant cuff be
    very wet and had grass on the bottom of his shoes for walking
    inbetween houes and waling on people lawns.

    • Drew says:

      Good point. Since he wasn’t casing houses, Fogen is at fault.

      • Malisha says:

        He was not casing out houses.
        But even if he WAS, Fogen was at fault.
        No matter what Trayvon Martin was doing other than a dangerous felony that endangered some person, Fogen had no call to approach, accost, follow, harass, or confront him. Having done any of those would automatically give Trayvon Martin the right to defend himself.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      It doesn’t seem as if the investigation gauged how wet any of Trayvon’s clothing was in any of the paperwork in discovery that I recall. They did mention a musty smell of his clothing when they examined it for gunshot residue and did all the measuerments of the entry hole relative to the shoulder seam, etc.

      Does anyone recall anything different?

      • Xena says:

        @Two sides. The report pointed out that the hoodie was very damp.

      • acemayo says:

        If he caught in the down pour his hoodie will be soaking wet

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Thanks, Xena. But really no evaluation of wet trousers, etc.

        • Xena says:

          @Two sides

          Thanks, Xena. But really no evaluation of wet trousers, etc.

          In preparation for something I want to post to my blog, I again went over the lab report for debris. Nothing is said regarding the pants of either individual.

          The impression I’m getting is that the lab was directed to test the upper garments, socks and shoes, based on GZ’s story of his being pinned to the ground by Trayvon. Possibly at trial, there will be expert testimony that had GZ been on his back, pinned and doing the shimmy, that debris would be found on the back of his shoes. It was not.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        According to Fogen’s story, he should have pretty wet muddy heels and Trayvon would have wet, muddy toes. But either that was not the case or no one checked.

        • cielo62 says:

          Two Sides~ Someone checked GZs boots (toes wet but NOT the backs) but I haven’t read anything about Trayvons besides his upper clothes.

          • Xena says:

            Debris was found on both of Trayvon’s shoes and socks, his sweatshirt and hoodie.

            One thing I can’t wait to hear from experts at trial is how mixed DNA got on GZ, when only Trayvon’s DNA was found on his right hand, and nothing whatsoever was found on his left hand.

    • Nef05 says:

      I don’t know if there was anything said regarding the *degree* of wetness to his clothes. However, it should be noted that Trayvon was found face down on wet grass and was rolled to his back on wet grass to be given emergency treatment. I don’t believe the prosecution would even bring it up as it appears to be too easily defendable, under a “reasonable doubt” type of argument. Fogen’s clothes/boots, on the other hand, have no such argument that could be made – imo.

  32. jo says:

    can i ask a stupid question please as i am unable to keep up with all the evidence and discussions..

    i remember when dee dee was first “outed” by those who don’t deserve a mention, and i asked how they knew this was THE dee dee. The reply was how they worked it out via facebook, twitter, social media and using some sort of apps. They seemed to be sure they had the right girl but i was just disgusted that they are so desperate for gz to be innocent that they would go to such lengths.

    I stopped visiting sites like wagist and ct because the blatant racism and hate was too much to stomach so could someone tell me please, how did they find out they had the wrong dee dee and how many “dee dee’s” were found and harassed. When i read what Bernie said about gz’s cohorts identifying the wrong girl it got me wondering how it all unraveled and did they hang their heads in shame or just move on to the next victim? Thanks.

    Nice post Professor…

    • Xena says:


      … how did they find out they had the wrong dee dee and how many “dee dee’s” were found and harassed.

      Can’t say for sure but got a clue from O’Mara. First, the court issued subpoenas to Facebook and Twitter for Trayvon’s and DeeDee’s social media. The attorney for Facebook told O’Mara that they operate under federal law; he wasn’t giving them anything; and if he disagreed, take them to federal court.

      Another problem for O’Mara is that they have no knowledge of the social media handles used by either party — if they had such social media.

      In open court, O’Mara held up papers claiming they were DeeDee’s social media. Shortly thereafter, he posted on the gzlegal defense site how he did not approve of doxing.

      That conveys that O’Mara contacted at least Twitter, providing them with the handles on the social media print-outs that he held up in court, and was informed that the account holder information is not for the person he wants.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Jo, the Breitbarters still discuss her incessantly and speculate about who she is.

  33. Malisha says:

    Let’s not forget, though, that the prosecution and the Fulton-Martins’ attorney are strong, smart and resourceful. I think they are going to be protective of DeeDee and I think they’re going to be able to face down these goons who have canonized a murderer. The more these degenerates attack an innocent witness, the more we see the utter bankruptcy of their case. THEY H AVE NO CASE. The defense is without a defense. Fogen will be either in prison soon or on the lam soon. DeeDee will have support to help her through this and I think she will get through this and have something to say about it in retrospect.

    O’Mara and West have short-term vision.

    • leander22 says:

      Unrelated, Malisha,

      I was somehow wondering why O’Mara took the denial of continuance with a smile:

      As for a continuance, all O’Mara has to do is say he’s not ready, and describe the preparations that he intends to undertake. The judge is free to reject his reasoned request, and force O’Mara to trial. It would be an issue for appeal. I’m sure O’Mara is comfortable with that procedure.

      Who wrote that is a lawyer too.

  34. fauxmccoy says:

    hopping along the easter trail with peter cottontail

    • fauxmccoy says:

      what a dork, i forgot to check the little box. perhaps i’m following another rabbit … a big white one created from drug infused visions 🙂

  35. Darklicious says:

    Well said Professor!

  36. colin black says:

    Re above C Anthony refers to Cindy not her swamphag daughter………

  37. colin black says:

    M O M an the Z Clan
    Are just useing the exact same gameplan as executed by J Baez an C Anthony.

    Get on every tv show media out let an repeat dissinformation .
    Repeat sound bites over an over .
    A liar doesnt make you a murderer .
    She is mother of the year.
    My cleint is innocent .
    Caylee was abducted
    Caylee is missing
    Caylee is alive .
    Mind you the pool lader was up so she might have accidently drowned in the pool.
    But Casey is innocent.
    An the defence via Geraldo an every other talk show was on every friggin night.
    Whilst the Prosecution remain silent.
    An we no how that fiasco of a circus trial turned out with a pinheaded pinnellas jury.
    Yup M O M watched an learned a thirty odd yearmember of the bar takeig lessons from a three year rookie whom only lucked out with a perverce jurour pool.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Fortunately the case against Fogen is a lot stronger.

      • racerrodig says:

        Yep !! And that’s what scares them. Fogen admitted he killed Trayvon……Anthony said “…who…..what, no my kids misssing, maybe dad did it… wasn’t me”

  38. ladystclaire says:

    Professor, I have been worried about this kid for a while now and, I have expressed my concern for her safety and well being. I’m pretty sure those racist idiots at the tree house suggested that he video DeeDee’s deposition also. it wouldn’t take nothing for him to hand out copies of her depo in order for those nuts to hunt her down. I hope that she is not even in the state of Florida.

    O’mara should be a shamed of himself for the road he has taken in this case. I think he needs to be disbarred and not allowed to practice law ever again in any state. he is doing his best to help these people get at her. and, if he think people don’t know what he was up to with videoing only W-8, he is crazier than I thought he was.

    She will not be able to show her face, even when she testifies in court. this is so terrible to see how some people have turned this case into something out of the godfather or something.

    • Xena says:

      it wouldn’t take nothing for him to hand out copies of her depo in order for those nuts to hunt her down.

      The Zidiot plan was to contact the guy hired by O’Mara to do the video taping and get a copy of the video from him. Their plan was posted publicly with subtle threats — since they already had his name and know he is in Florida, they would post his personal information along with misrepresentations to defame and humiliate him — maybe using the filth they post about Leatherman as proof of their handiwork.

      • groans says:

        The Zidiot plan was to contact the guy hired by O’Mara to do the video taping and get a copy of the video from him. Their plan was posted publicly with subtle threats ….

        Hi, Xena. Could you please post a link to that outrageous Zidiot plan (if you can remember where it was)? Or any information to help us find it? Thanks.

        • Xena says:


          Hi, Xena. Could you please post a link to that outrageous Zidiot plan (if you can remember where it was)? Or any information to help us find it? Thanks.

          I didn’t save the links, and there are comments on at least two articles on Diwata’s blog — including comments that state DeeDee’s purported first name(s) trying to figure out which one is correct. I should have saved them but since I went there for another purpose, did not.

    • Rachael says:

      “She will not be able to show her face, even when she testifies in court.”

      I agree that this is very concerning. There are some very wicked crazy people out there and I’m very concerned for her safety after she testifies.

      • cielo62 says:

        Rachel~ which is why I believe that she will be allowed to testify via phone or other identity hiding technology.

      • SearchingMind says:

        I hope W9 gets professional help (if she is not already getting one). Obviously what GZ did to her left unhealed injuries behind for several years. And then came the public onslaught from TCTH against her private life. These kind of events can irreparably derail one’s life. O’Mara is also an accomplice to that because he did declare in the media that he had no other choice than to go after her.

    • Jun says:

      I honestly believe she will be allowed to testify by phone

      as that is how the Fogen’s testified at the first bond hearing, where they all lied repeatedly

      • Malisha says:

        I think she will have to appear.
        I also think she will have her own lawyer.
        I sure hope she sues some of these a55holes after the trial is over.
        For the big bucks.

      • Malisha says:

        Not appearing at a hearing is much different from not appearing at trial. Even five-year-old kids have to appear at trials if they are witnesses. The Constitution gives the defendant the right to “confront” witnesses against him. She’ll appear; she’ll be there with her own lawyer. I’m predicting a VERY GOOD LAWYER will be there with her.

  39. Jun says:

    The state better get prepared, because there are right wing wackos threatening to tear down the state of Florida because of this Fogen issue and his murder of the victim, Trayvon

    The path of the righteous man, is beset on all sides, by the selfishness and tyranny of evil men

    Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak, through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother’s keeper, and the father of lost children

    • Tzar says:

      The state better get prepared, because there are right wing wackos threatening to tear down the state of Florida because of this Fogen issue and his murder of the victim, Trayvon

      that’s called terrorism
      it is what it is
      and it will have to be dealt with at the time
      can’t give in to their terror tactics

  40. manberk says:

    Notice Jr an alike have no trouble nailing this young girl to a cross with nary a shred of evidence she did anything wrong. Pathetic. Selective justice.

  41. cielo62 says:

    >^..^< I learn something new everyday here. Breitbarting. I can only hope that MOM and West will be held accountable for all their unethical shenanigans. Karma keeps count.

  42. onlyiamunitron says:

    We should all be spared the ickyness that is Breitbart.


    • justchill says:

      wasn’t he smited?

      • onlyiamunitron says:

        “wasn’t he smited?”

        Yeah, but the ick lives on–check out the picture of him as a knight in shining armor.

        On second thought, spare yourself that which cannot be unseen.


  43. Drew says:

    I like the new verb.

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