The Prosecution did not violate the Brady rule in Zimmerman case

Saturday, March 30, 2013

Good morning everyone.

I realized at approximately 3:30 am this morning that I forgot to mention several extremely important points in the articles and comments that I have posted recently about the Brady rule and the timing of the exculpatory evidence disclosures to the defense.

The Brady rule imposes an obligation on the lead prosecutor and case agent in each case to periodically review the case file for the specific purpose of identifying exculpatory evidence. Since police investigations typically continue until a final order terminates a case after verdict and sentencing, a case file will continue to grow documenting the investigation and the discovery of new information. Prosecutors also add their stuff to the file. This feature of the criminal justice system frustrates judicial efforts to establish a uniform drop-dead deadline by which the prosecution must disclose exculpatory evidence to the defense in any given case.

Therefore, the general practice is to disclose exculpatory evidence to the defense as soon as practicable after it has been obtained and identified. One might reasonably expect to see multiple disclosures of exculpatory evidence prior to trial and even during trial.

A major exception to this practice was developed to deal with unusual or exceptional circumstances that warrant delaying the disclosure of exculpatory evidence to the defense until the defense must have it to prepare for a deposition, pretrial hearing or the trial.

We have that situation in this case due to the well documented need to protect the privacy and safety of W8 (Dee Dee) from harassment and intimidation by the defendant’s supporters.

The vast majority of Brady violations involve situations where the prosecution had exculpatory evidence, but never disclosed it to the defense. In most cases a new team of defense investigators independently discovers the exculpatory evidence several years later during the run-up to filing a state or federal habeas petition after the judgment and sentence of the trial court was affirmed by appellate courts.

Tthe Brady rule requires a showing that the exculpatory evidence withheld from the defense was so important that the outcome of the trial likely would have been different, if the prosecution had disclosed it to the defense before trial. In other words, absent a showing of materiality, the prosecution’s failure to disclose exculpatory evidence in any given case will be deemed harmless error.

Finally, the importance or materiality of that exculpatory evidence relative to rest of the evidence admitted at trial cannot be determined until after the trial has concluded.

For this reason alone, the defense claim that the prosecution violated the Brady rule should be summarily dismissed as premature, impossible to determine, and frivolous.

Nevertheless, let us briefly review the available facts to see if the timing of the prosecution disclosure disadvantaged or prejudiced the defense.

There is no evidence that it did.

ASA John Guy contacted MOM the evening before the court hearing in early March and told him that there were no hospital records to confirm Dee Dee’s statement that she did not attend the funeral and the wake because she was in the hospital.

Because of that disclosure, the judge ruled that the defense motion for a subpoena duces tecum of Dee Dee’s hospital records was moot.

The defense deposition of Dee Dee a week later could not have been adversely affected by the timing of the disclosure because the defense had the information for a week and used it to question Dee Dee.

The trial is still three months down the road, so I do not see any possibility of prejudice to the defense from the timing of the disclosure.

In conclusion, I do not see any prejudice to the defense caused by the delay between the defense request for the hospitalization records last fall and the recent disclosure.

As I have already mentioned, the prosecution has legitimate reality-based concerns to protect the privacy and safety of Dee Dee. I refer of course to the concerted effort by the defendant’s supporters to successively intimidate two girls whom they mistakenly believed to be the real Dee Dee.

Therefore, the delay in disclosing the evidence requested by the defense not only failed to harm the defense, it was reasonable and necessary to protect Dee Dee.

For all of these reasons, the defense motion is frivolous and should be denied.

Finally, the responses by the two reporters for the Orlando Sentinel and the national media to BDLR’s response to the defendant’s frivolous motions demonstrated that they have not yet grasped the facts in this case and the simple truth that the defendant has no defense.

Pathetic fail.

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680 Responses to The Prosecution did not violate the Brady rule in Zimmerman case

  1. kllypyn says:

    I may have to stop following this case. It is literally making me sick. The hatred for a murder victim is unheard of. they are not asking why this 208lb man couldn’t handle a 158lb teenager without killing him. they are not asking why didn’t he let trayvon go after he started screaming. They are not asking why did he pursue Trayvon. they are not asking why if Trayvon beat him like he claims. Where is the bruising?where are the black eyes? They are not asking,how did he get his gun? It was on his right rear hip. It would have been impossible for him to grab it like he claims. they ignore the evidence which show he had trayvon restrained when he was killed. They gloss over his own records of violence while making up stuff about Trayvon. Trayvon was innocent he was an average teenager who got in trouble sometimes, nothing serious no violence involved just the minor nonsense teenagers get it trouble for. I usually don’t there,but i get the feeling if Trayvon was a white kid and Zimmerpunk was black. the silly stuff Trayvon got in trouble for wouldn’t even be mentioned and those same zimmerpunk supporters would be crying for zimmerpunjks head on a platter.but because Trayvon was a black kid. Writing on a locker makes him a thug. Cutting classes makes him a troubled kid. smoking weed makes him drug crazed. Smoking weed makes you sluggish and hungry not violent. unlike alcohol. All he had to do was wait for the police. He should have left Trayvon alone.

  2. “Harleys were a lot more fun when they were ‘exclusively’ ridden by angry, violent, intoxicated, anti-social, poorly groomed, heavily tattooed MANIACS.”

    My first Harley was a WWII ’45 750cc flathead…

  3. Mornin’ Ya’ll……Coffee goin’….wiff a bit ‘o whisky…

    Question…….could fogens “graduation” party be brought up at trial to show what a liar he is?

    He’s lying to his friends that he “graduated”

    If one is willing to lie and have parties for something that didn’t happen….with his “friends”…How much more so would they be willing to lie to keep themselves from life in prison.

    Can BDLR bring this up Prof.?…..just to establish the liar that fogen is?

  4. groans says:

    @ Professor:

    I very much appreciate your recent articles. Wow… lots to discuss! I’ve had a very hard time keeping up with your many articles this month because of your prolific substantive content.

    But, thankfully, I was able to blow through the nearly 600 comments here, because this page appears dominated by silly “challenges” injected by onlyiamunitron.

    I don’t usually “blow through” your followers’ comments, because I generally learn a lot from them. However, when onlyiamunitron is active (and he/she was NOT active during the early period of my involvement here – no matter what “seniority” he/she repeatedly claims), it’s easy to ignore much conversation on your blog.

    IMO, onlyiamunitron diminishes the impact of your blog, because he/she taunts ridiculously – without adding any significant, substantive value – and thereby derails the otherwise informative discussion that is typical of your blog. As a result, rational people are likely to bypass (“blow through”) otherwise potentially intelligent discourse here, because he/she makes the conversation “all about unitron.”

    I, for one, wish you’d monitor his/her entries more closely to prevent his/her derailing reasonable and intelligent discourse on your blog. That’s my view. But if you don’t opt to do so, at least I can “blow through” a bunch of junk here quickly (though maybe also miss important comments) due to “baloney” here getting excessive attention on your otherwise important blog.

    Thank you for your consideration of my concern.

    • Romaine says:

      Thank you groans, I agree with you 100%, unitron is a hot mess, if there were a way to personally block his/her communication to this blog i would have done it long ago…so i will continue to by pass any and all entries made by that blogger…it’s like watching the defense piss of judge nelson with repeated non-sensible requests.

      • racerrodig says:

        He’s a Zidiot Troll. Yesterday he stated his only concern was that the defendant have a fair trial. Nothing else. That says where he’s at. He has been challenged to say anything about Fogen doing anything wrong / illegal and he has refused.

    • cielo62 says:

      Grosns- X2

      Sent from my iPod

    • texad says:

      groans- Thank you for articuating my frustration regarding unitron’s esoteric babblings. He/she usually adds nothing to the conversation. I determined a long time ago that- unlike many who posts here- he/she has no passion for what happened to a minor child who had just turned 17 years old 2 weeks before he was murdered. At last count unitron had made almost 50 entries to this article alone. Most of his/her comments were of the “why do you say that’ variety. Sort of like a child asking why, why why. It’s cute when an inquisitive child does it,but not when the fate of many people’s lives hang in the balance. And possibly the fate of the nation.

      It was suggested weeks ago to just ignore unitron’s comments. I think that would work best: Fast forward when her/his name pops up. Like most of us do when we DVR television shows. Then the Professor could be the one person who monitors her/his nonsense-because the comments DO need to be monitored.

      In the words of GZ, “I don’t know what her/his problem is”. But I DO know he/she has become a self appointed agent provocateur. And this concerns me as much as it did in the 1960’s. Some very patriotic groups who started out by doing the kind of intellectual exploratory work that I have seen on this blog were negatively impacted by agent provocateurs. People went to jail and some people died. So unitron’s polarizing is far from innocent. Unitron seems to have joined this conversation for the mere purpose of disruption from within. Let’s not let that happen because I personally consider this my first stop for any analysis related to the legal issues as related to getting justice for Trayvon Martin.

      • Malamiyya says:

        My take on unitron has been that he is one of those over-exact geeks who has to have every t dotted and every i crossed. And who cannot bear a whiff of anything emotional or irrational. Wasn’t he the one who lost it a week or two ago when Xena was saying that she was spiritual but not religious? I think he isn’t ill-intentioned — just someone so lost in seeing that you get your facts precisely right that he bugs the hell out of people working on different wavelengths. Didn’t he say he’d made himself unwelcome to the Z-people by exactly the same behavior? Like the professor, I say cut him some slack.

        • Xena says:

          @Malamiyya. The person who interjected his own definition for “spiritual” was SearchingMind, not Unitron.

          I think he isn’t ill-intentioned — just someone so lost in seeing that you get your facts precisely right that he bugs the hell out of people working on different wavelengths.

          I would agree if Unitron’s comments were consistent on every blog he posts to, but they are not. Here, he has demonstrated a progression from being the word and spelling police, to asking questions that interject accusations of emotions and thoughts to belittle people. They also change the topic under discussion.

          Also I noticed that Unitron likes to do this early on so that readers/visitors are first exposed to his games before they get to comments that have meat. It agrees with an agenda to paint Leatherman’s blog as a place where we are unintelligent, discuss issues of GZ’s case based on emotion, and also geared to divide and conquer among us who support justice for Trayvon.

      • Malamiyya says:

        Xena, you are right. It was SearchingMind. I apologize to whichever of the two people I may have offended by misattributing his going ballistic at the non-rational.

        To this point, I’ve been taking unitron as quirky and insistent. but I haven’t seen him as an agent provocateur because I haven’t noticed harm, malice or deliberate falsification from him. And I hesitate to call “troll” on someone who may just be cross-grained and stubborn about being that way. But I am taking your perceptions seriously.

        • Xena says:

          @Malamiyya. I’ve not called anyone here a “troll,” although I have referred to some as a Zidiot. I do not believe that Unitron is a Zidiot. Rather, I do question if he is playing to Zidiots hoping that they won’t include him in their generalization of “Traybots” particularly since some feel that Leatherman is the personification of all pro-justice for Trayvon folks and without him, there would be no “us.”

  5. fauxmccoy says:

    para mi amigo, cielo —

  6. Malisha says:

    Well if I had a sister I would definitely text her if and when i was going grocery shopping. Just so she could feel close to me. If I had a daddy I’m sure he would know about that, too. 🙄

    • tonydphotog says:

      Doesn’t everyone text family members when they go shopping? I sure do!

    • manberk says:

      @malisha Just had this discussion elsewhere. How the heck would dad know about his texts and why would they come up before he left the house? Theres a reason he highlighted that. To cover for the records perhaps. Sort of admitting it as a non issue to throw everyone off their track. I wonder what he was really texting sis, or she him.

  7. ay2z says:

    I am not convinced that sZ was the spotter alone, unless she was in her own home standing watch. I think it’s more likely that if fogen had been texting sis, and the topic included going grocery shopping , the couple could have driven together to Colonial.

    We have already heard SZ in the background of a 911 call about other suspicious black males, when fogen said ‘I’m going out [to see], and SZ said ‘Don’t go out there”. Fogen says ‘why not?’

    So SZ souonds concerned. Fogen would have left SZ at home where she would not worry, keeping texts with Sis to himself, and leaving SZ to stay home. OR, she could be visiting sis while fogen checks out the guy in his truck.

    SZ and Sis would have been together in this scenario, and could have surveilled Trayvon while fogen drpve back to RVC, knowing where he was headed by his wife and sis on the phone.

    This would also explain why he wanted someone to call SZ for him right away. IF she was still with Sis, waiting to hear back from fogen, she would worry and may also call him, someoen else might answer.

    Ss would also be alerted if SZ was with her, and she , being a lawyer, would immediately, one would presume, call daddy Zim.

    “….he was looking around to see who else is….”

  8. ay2z says:

    Interesting comment about the texting sis, huh! Will the text messages be retrievable from the time FDLE took over? Interview was published early April, don’t know when it aired exactly)

    • Rachael says:

      If it was so “customary” for him to go grocery shopping on Sunday nights, why was he texting his sister to tell her that? Why does this sound like a BS alibi to me?

    • Trained Observer says:

      Published articles on text archiving unrelated to this case indicate major carriers (ATT, Verizon, etc.) have them squirrelled away for in excess of five years — even if they’ve been deleted on the phone itself.

      So beware, gun-packers … think twice, before sharing your stalking plans via text with sisters, wives, chums and such.

  9. ay2z says:

    Senior Z on Hannity started by saying

    “Well. it’s customary on Sunday night for George to go and do the grocery shopping.”

    (did not say George and wife to customarily do grocery shopping)

    ** (caps emphasis added for next statement—-> Interesting in context of LLMPapa’s video of today)

    “HE HAD BEEN TEXTING HIS SISTER AND TOLD HER THAt HE WAS, HE WAS, GONNA GO AND DO GROCERY SHOPPING”

    “He got in his vehicle to go and leave the community, ahh, he saw somebody, that did not live in the community, walking behind some townhomes.”

    **(note– nowhere did Trayvon walk behind some townhomes when Fogen first saw him standing at Taaffe’s, according to fogen of course. And nowhere was Trayvon walking behind some townhomes off a normal pedistrial walkway. However, as of today, fogen, if he knew Trayvon were coming over from the Colonial townhomes, that would be the only true walking behind some townhomes where there was not a pedestrial or traffic walkway, and a true ‘cutting through’ scenario).

    …..
    Hannity, “2 stories that I’ve recently read, is it true that your son would TUTOR African-American and minority children on the weekend….”

    (Senior not given a chance to answer this yet)

    ..”ahh and i..i..IS IT ALSO TRUE (Hannity presumes the answer to the first question in his second question) that there was a case (goes into the homeless man help/speaking out story)… “IS THA TTRUE TOO< SIR".

    (in other words, Hannity has answered the first question as 'true' and leads Z Sr to jump to the second question, which he does without commenting on the mentoring children, question.

    Zimmerman's answer "It's true concerning the assault on the homeless man."

    We might read into that, that it may not be true about the first question, or simply think he doesn't know anything about any tutoring of children, or it's crafted to imply 'true' while not atually saying it.

  10. colin black says:

    If WE Plural would always go grocery shoppppppping.
    Then why was it you singular and not WE plural in the car.

    It was just another inane nonsence statement foggagge makes all the time.

    I wasnt following just going in the same directio.

    Or …I havent had time to refect on that night since the shooting being in solitery Ive had a lot of time to reflect.

    When you listen to what he says it makes no sence.
    And he regularly contradicts himself.
    Guys not playing with a full deck P T S D code for insanity defence..

    He had flashback to one of the thousands of Vietnam combat stories told by his Pop.
    Or my favourite an most likely winner.
    P T S D Brought on by sexuall abuse at the hands of his brother.

    • manberk says:

      I always found it odd he insisted in one of the JHC that he had been interviewed by Gaibreth. I think he was calling him a liar denying haven spoken with him. Dudes got something wrong with him for sure.

    • Trained Observer says:

      He doesn’t make sense? Must be on drugs or sumpem.

  11. ay2z says:

    diaryofasuccessfulloser says:
    March 31, 2013 at 4:13 pm
    GZ stated that he and SZ mentored kids that very night. Has it been proven that they actually did not?

    I don’t recall that fogen ever said that they mentored that Sunday, but he continually had his script set to start with ‘On Sundays, after we mentored the kids…. went grocery shopping’. He’s crafted this, it 1. Makes the audience think that ‘every Sunday’, or certainly the 26th of February, the couple had spent the afternoon mentoring, gone home, made supper, and fogen, and fogen alone went to Target to do the week’s shopping.

    That’s a falso assumption he wants us to draw, he does not say they mentored the kids that afternoon, but by offering this story and letting people assume, plus it is a good chance to get on national TV (hannity) with the mentoring of poor black kids, not racist mantra.

    I am sure I read that the mentoring took place some months before, and even when current, they mentored once or twice per month.

    Zim Sr. clearly had no idea about mentoring we must assume, because he was asked by Hannity, but along with a second question and slick sound editing, we got the answer only to the second question. Hannity spun that question to allow people to make that leap, just like the ‘confirmed’ broken nose comment as in his promotion video clip of the interview points.

    Filling the afternoon with ‘activities, assured that people would believe it was a set routine and so no one would question where fogen or SZ were, but home making supper and then on to Target.

    That is why, if fogen was over at Colonial, inside the complex in his vehicle, that wasn’t part of his ‘routine’ story. He could have beetled over to meet the young person as he got to RTV near Taafee’s place. And then and only then, he would be in a position, home turf, to call in to NEN.

    Question is, and this brings up another LLMPapa video from some time ago, was at the beginning of the re-enactment in Sgt Smith’s car, fogen says he was looking around ‘TO SEE WHO ELSE WAS….’ and stops himself.

    No mentoring every Sunday, never said they mentored that day. Crafty liar he is, so he thinks he is.

    • ay2z says:

      To SEe Who Else was……

    • racerrodig says:

      During his Hannity interview he said to the effect “….after we had just mentored the kids..” “…I went shopping…” He made the reference as if it was “…OK SheLie, the kids all left and it’s off to Target I go…….”

      • ay2z says:

        Listen carefully, he doesn’t specify that day, he makes a generalization.

        “Sunday after we mentored the kids, we ould always go grocery shopping’. He did not say they just mentored the kids.

        • racerrodig says:

          Then, in my opinion, he should not have mentioned that at all. The fact that he mentioned mentoring on Sundays several times leads one toe believe he did that night.

      • ay2z says:

        “… we would ALWAYS go….”

        He’s allowing you to think that they did that afternoon, but the ‘always’ refers only to the grocery shopping.

      • ay2z says:

        racerrodig, yes. We need to get to the bottom of this, one way or the other. He had certainly rehearsed this start to his story, and began without mentioning it and did a quick restart with a few hesitations to gather his thoughts to start ‘properly’.

        Will have to dig depper into this to find sources for the mentoring program they were on, if at the time of the killing, or previous months.

      • tonydphotog says:

        According to junior, FOX News is one of the only truthful news channels. Watching as much as I could stomach of this video, not only has the dialogue been edited, but the background doesn’t match up in the different camera angles. It also sounds like it’s recorded in a studio, and not a noise softening hotel room.

      • ay2z says:

        Tony, I should have posted warnings to watch at own peril, on both of those!! Luckily, both sections of interest, are near the beginning. l)

      • Jun says:

        Fox is a good network for comedy shows and cartoons but to say they are a credible news source is just….

      • Two sides to a story says:

        The Faux News Entertainment Network.

      • Jen says:

        At the beginning of the interview–“I really haven’t had the time to reflect on it. When I was in jail obviously I was in solitary confinement and I had a lot of time to think and reflect, I just think it’s a tragic situation”

        Which one is it George did you have time to reflect or not? It sounds like he is trying to get pity from racist donors with everything he says.

        He interviews like he is telling a story…giving all of this background information/details. This interview is so rehearsed and absurd.

  12. colin black says:

    racerrodig says:

    March 31, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    He mentored no one…if he did, we’d all know about it. There are no mentored kids names on any witness list and the only one who stated it is Fogen

    CORRECT

    Only Black Child he mentored that night was Trayvon.
    His version of mentoring went like this.
    First step MONITERING observing there behaviour.
    Second step….Correcting unacseptible behaviour.
    Third Step admonishment /MURDER.

    Thats the only mentoring foggagge did that night an when grass hopper didnt learn his lesson or play by the rules he squished him like a bug.

    • racerrodig says:

      Yep, and I’ll quote Moron O’ Mara that “….it’s undisputed…”

    • Jun says:

      It’s part of the Fogen code word system, the word mentor

      It is like when he said that when he attacked his ex, it was self defense, and when he attacked police, it was self defense

      Maybe it’s not code words but moreso that he is just full of it LOL

      • racerrodig says:

        Oh, my bad…..I forgot about Fogenisms. Like Peter Pan…

        I guess you’ll have to remind me from time to time.

  13. Mary Davis says:

    @ Ladystclaire. You are absolutely right. Not only has O’Mara done things that could be bordering on illegal, like trying to taint a jury pool (remember the bloody photo he held up in court), also he is performing very unethically for a professional. I wish I could be there for voir dire. Although Florida is a sunshine state, I doubt that the selection of jurors will be televised. I could be wrong tho. I’ve always had my eyes on Bernie. I never doubted his abilities. He always seems on edge, as if he can’t wait to get to trial.

    • colin black says:

      The voire dire will be on line an maybe tv but it eats up a lot of air time.
      An is boreing an repative to the max.
      However last case of this magnatude the the trunkmom murder fiasco .
      Voir Dire was available on line.
      So will this case as I beleive this trial if it happens will.
      Be far bigger than swampmoms.

  14. colin black says:

    I mean Grace is on the phone tapes .
    Not that she visited him in jail.
    He said he didnt want to have visits as he remembered the anthony vts off visits being released to the public.

    He must have thought no one would bother about phone conversations.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      How could he think his calls wouldn’t end up in the public record when jailhouse calls always start with a recording saying that they’re recorded. Oh, excuse me, not HIS!

  15. colin black says:

    Grace isnt an unknown player she visited foggagge in jail.
    An even cooed that she had driven over an parked by the jail to be near to him.
    Thats sisterly love an her adress an id are common knowlage as are many other relitives of the extended Z Clan…
    Most like his Wifes on court documents and depos.
    No body is outing them .
    THEY OUT THEMSELFS.
    Ma an Pa set up a begging site.
    Big Bro is applying for an equity membership to help launch his show bizz career.

    Am I outing junior by saying he is the only gay raceist man on the planet?

  16. Lots of questions upthread! He says it will be “about 30 minutes” before the next post. Thanks for patience.

  17. Dan C ‏@boring_dan 1h
    .@rzimmermanjr I just saw a black teenager walking down the street with hood up. SHOCKINGLY easy choice to not murder him with a gun!
    Collapse Reply Retweet Favorite More

  18. Two sides to a story says:

    That old picture of Grace has been widely available since early in the case.

  19. willisnewton says:

    Anything the happened between the 7ELeven video and the NEN call recording can only be guessed at using DD’s partial understanding of events.

    Yes it’s a tidbit to speculate about, and that’s what I’m happily calling for – peer review of the evidence and specualtion based on evidence.

    I’m upset about the doxing. IMO it’s uncool to a major degree to attach a theory to a bit of info like that which was found by searching for personal information on the internet, and then to go out and publish that intel wide using YouTube before peer review and some soul searching about what it means.

    FWIW there are other people with the extended-Z family name who live EVEN closer to certain vital places that have deep relevance to the case. And I’ve never bothered to discuss them because to be honest it’s neither here nor there when you put all the evidence in public into perspective and PEER REVIEW what it all means before one goes running off claiming proof of anything.

    No one needs to see a photo of GZ’s sister’s face, attached to a street name and a map. What if that was YOU? I’m just upset that this video can and likely will be used as fodder for more bullshit from the defense about how what the treehouse people do is somehow relative to the intense calm the Martin family has handled themselves with.

    • LLMPapa says:

      You really don’t have a clue what the evidence in this case has told us, do you? I didn’t search the Internet for her address, the City of Sanford, FL PROVIDED her specific address, including the street number, over a year ago. It’s part of the evidence of this case.

      Page 9

      http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/327330-george-zimmerrman-911-call-history.html

      That picture of her face has been out there since this case began. If memory serves me right, it came from GZ’s MySpace page.

      I’m not sure what you’re problem is supposed to be, but I’d suggest you become more familiar with the case evidence before you label information provided by governmental authorities as doxing.

    • racerrodig says:

      “}Xena- he’s a nitpicker.” I have never in my life seen anyone major in the minors with every post.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

      No bout a doubt it.

    • manberk says:

      I understand. But there was a direct quote from DD that referenced another complex. And IMO that makes it worth exploring.

      Peer review refers to experts. Theres no saying one persons opinion and theories are any more substantive than the next person. We have all missed things only to have someone else point them out. I would actually suggest LLMPapa is as much an “expert” on evidence as anyone.

      This doesnt seem to be doxing from my understanding of the word. Shes not anonymous and this same information is widely available.

    • Tzar says:

      what is your definition of doxing?
      and if the defense wants to bring this video into court, i wish them luck, bernie already warned them about that

    • kimmi says:

      The ‘picture’ Papa used can be found on Jr’s twitter page.
      Open the pictures, its there for anyone to see.

  20. willisnewton says:

    prof – please think long and hard before “featuring” the LLMPapa video with GZ’s sister’s personal information in it.

    It’s not cool. And it’s speculative to a degree that is not worthy of adding noise to the the mix until the theories have been peer reviewed by many who are familiar with all the public evidence.

    I think the wise thing would be for papa to take it down off YouTube and not hand the defense a bargaining chip regarding “doxing” and the toxic energy it lets into the world.

    LLMPapa is well meaning but this video crosses over a line IMO.

    • manberk says:

      @willis Why do you call it noise? Arent the new letter and the added ABC commentary recent developments? I dont recall another instance of DD referring to another complex.

      Since her address was in the discovery its no more doxing then referring to Mary Cutcher by her name IMO.

      Everyone’s “facts” are speculative and its all noise to someone.

    • dianetrotter says:

      I love the videos. They may give the prosecution avenues to consider. I’m sure the prosecution and defense have someone following these threads. I wrote a Hub on Sizzler Restaurant and got an email requesting a correction.

    • cielo62 says:

      willisnewton~ “hand the defense a bargaining chip regarding “doxing” “. WTF? All of a sudden THIS SITE and LLMPapa in particular are so powerful that the DEFENSE can use what is here to help prove that GZ killed Trayvon in self defense? The question of Grace’s involvement is an interesting theory, one that should be considered. Until more evidence becomes available, it will remain a theory. Much akin to PirhanaMom’s theory that GZ had wanted to use this murder as a launch for a security business. There is NOTHING within the video that can be construed as “doxing” since the material has been made available to the public BY LE ITSELF and available online to anyone wanting that information. Honestly. Get a grip.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Actually he needs to apologize to LLMPapa. LLMPapa did his homework and did not dox or do anything inappropriate as accused. willisnewton jumped to a conclusion and castigated ‘Papa for no good reason. even calling for immediate sanctions.

        It’s time for an apology, stand up and get it done!

    • Jun says:

      It is a theory and we wont know till the GPS records are released because DD can only go by what she heard on the phone

      Whether at the mailbox in the complex or the other complex, it makes Fogen look like a liar

      We also do not know if they connect

    • Trained Observer says:

      @willisnewton, I disagree that LLMPapa’s insightful video has crossed the line. What’s been included is public information, nothing top secret. The puzzle pieces become fascinating when put in context.

      @LLMPapa — You use the term “lived” for Grace at the complex. Is this a rental complex, rather than a condo or co-op? And is it known whether Grace has high-tailed it out of there? (If not, bet her neighbors would like her to move on:)

  21. SearchingMind says:

    @ Professor, everyone

    Professor, your post also got me wondering about the following:

    Fla. R. Crim. P. 3.220 (n)(2) provides for sanction by “WILLFUL violation” of “applicable discovery rule”. I think that the word “willful” is A KEY element that must be proven and that O’Mara has not (yet) made the case that the violation – ASSUMING any occurred – was “willful” .

    O’Mara grounded his claims on “Exhibit E” and “Exhibit F” of his Motion and an unspecified oral conversation with “either” Mr. Guy “or” BDLR.

    “Exhibit E” is an email (three pages long) and contains only this information with regard to DeeDee: “As well, do you have hospital records that would confirm that she was hospitalized at the time of Trayvon Martin’s wake as she told Mr. Crump and you during your interviews?”.

    “Exhibit F” is equally an email (four pages long) and contains only the following information with regard to DeeDee: “Likewise, if you have the hospital records for that she was hospitalized at the time of Trayvon Martin’s funeral as told you. We would like a copy of them as well. We will maintain their confidentiality”.

    What is obvious is the absence of any reply to O’Mara’s two emails.

    However, in his Motion O’Mara claims that this ‘absence’ (which can be as a result of anything but willful) is “willful” and “voluntary”. It seems to me that this is a HUGE leap – that cannot be made without any form of supporting evidence. O’Mara’s claim that he had an oral conversation with Mr. Guy or BDLR regarding the medical records is completely unsupported – (a) O’Mara is not even sure with whom he had the conversation. He says it was with “either” Mr. Guy “or” BDLR, (b) there is no mention of when and where the conversations took place and who was/were present and (c) what the reply/replies were, etc.

    • Xena says:

      @SearchingMind. RE: O’Mara’s request for DeeDee’s hospital records from the State.

      When O’Mara issued subpoenas in a civil case to the schools that Trayvon attended, I gave the benefit of the doubt that since teh bulk of O’Mara’s clients are family court parties, his legal assistant failed to check the Rules for the issuance of subpoena in criminal cases.

      Then there are the records that O’Mara wants from the feds, and although the feds advised him of the proper forms and offered to help him prepare them, he tried circumventing federal rules and procedures and wanted the State to get the documents for him.

      Now, I am convinced that O’Mara could use continuous legal education. If DeeDee signed a HIPPA release for her hospital records, even her delivering them to the State does not give the State the federal required release to give them to anyone else — promise of confidentiality or not.

      I don’t blame the State for disregarding O’Mara’s emails. Like they want the State to conduct discovery and connect the dots for them, they also want the State to provide them with continuous legal education or violate federal law.

      • Jun says:

        He just needs common sense

        For example, the advice of internet trolls for whore money

        Trolls main purpose is to play people

        Omara was being played for their entertainment

        It is obvious the common sense would be to find an authority on a certain subject and then delve forward

        • racerrodig says:

          So all that Zidiot advice goes for naught ?? Oh, he’ll be pissed when he finally figures that out……

  22. SearchingMind says:

    @ Professor

    Professor, your post got me wondering about the following:

    O’Mara is seeking damages under Fla. R. Crim. P. 3.220 (n)(2). This rule provides for sanction in case of “willful violation” of “applicable discovery rule”. By “applicable discovery rule” is meant RULE 3.220 OF FLORIDA RULES OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE. DeeDee’s medical records do not fall under DISCOVERY RULE 3.220 OF FLORIDA RULES OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE, and O’Mara is not claiming that they do. IMO, there is no legal basis for O’Mara’s claim(s). For, ASSUMING that the State actually violated the Brady-Rule, O’Mara cannot, based on violation of Brady-rule, pursue sanctions pursuant to Fla. R. Crim. P. 3.220 (n)(2). I think this is a matter of consequential legal technicality and I am wondering what your opinion might be.

  23. Malisha says:

    Mike Spindell, an outstanding intellectual, has posted an article on the Jonathan Turley blog. I want to cite it here:

    http://jonathanturley.org/2013/03/30/the-myth-of-black-freedom-in-the-u-s/#comment-530690

    I was very miffed with Professor Turley for defending Fogen time and time again with what I considered irrational considerations (his bumped head, his poor nose, his “lie detector test,” etc. etc. ad nauseam) and I never really got that crowd into a discussion of the real racism involved. I like Mr. Spindell’s article. I did put one little comment at the end of it.

  24. elcymoo says:

    @mountainmanpat:
    Here’s a link to GZ’s handwritten statement to the SPD on the night of 2/26/12:

    Click here: http://www.cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/2012/06/zimmeman-written_statement_0226-0620.pd

    • Malisha says:

      This is the statement that shows that Fogen, while giving his statement to the police, was resting assured that they were on his side, that he was being considered ONE OF THEM, that his statement was a formality for him to be treated like a cop who had just had a “good shoot.” The “tell”? He refers to the victim as “the suspect” throughout his statement. I think he used that phrase to describe Trayvon Martin 16 times in his written statement given on 2/26/2012. What hubris! HE was the “good guy” and the “guy” he killed was “the suspect.” And of what was that “suspect” suspected? Of being “up to no good.”

  25. ay2z says:

    Scanning through the calls, anyone notice that 1110 RVC is used as RVC and TWIN TREES LN, is stated? Same with other calls, intersection of Long Oak Way and RVC.

    Someone knew those ‘cut thru’ street names on a number of past calls to NEN.

    • Malisha says:

      Oh HE KNEW the street names AND the house numbers. That clumsy lie about getting out of the car to get an address is so transparent you don’t need Windex to see through it. He got out of the car to bring in his quarry.

    • dianetrotter says:

      GZ had called so much that he should know how to spell all three streets, let alone know the names.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        With the E911 system the operator/dispatcher doesn’t need to ask for an address, but they are trained to do so anyway, because the caller may not be calling about the address they’re calling from. But what the E911 system does is, it gives the operator an on screen location for any cell phone that calls in. In fact, I think they can lock the gps signal so that it doesn’t go away if the connection is broken.

        It will really be nice to get some of the gps data that must be around.

        I always wondered if when GZ started running after Trayvon, if Sean wasn’t watch GZ move on the screen, and perhaps that’s what allowed him to guess that GZ was actually following.

        Most people look at audio recordings and think of playing them back on voice only machines. What they may not realize is that gps data could also be encoded on the audio tape as well. It would be encoded digitally at a frequency that doesn’t interfere with the audio.
        So, maybe we already have the gps data on the audio that’s been released, but we don’t know it because no one has looked.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Oopsie: Today it’s all digital, so the gps data would be right there on the same cd with the audio data, it would just be wearing an “I’m not audio data” tag, so the player would skip over it.

    • ay2z says:

      thx, makes sense, there’s always a suspicious person involved in all his calls to police. Must have been half hour from hell for the poor brother when he couldn’t get in touch with her.

      What is PX? Something to do with phone?

      • manberk says:

        @ay2z maybe phone #? He couldnt get it because he was on the phone. May have been in his address book. Just a guess.

      • ay2z says:

        mountainmanpat, your wish is granted with the FEb 26th handwritten statement to police. Go at it!! He’s got neat writing, precise word choices, not shakey hand after killing someone, and he has his pre-amble all worked out too, about suspicious black males scaring the neighbor woman etc.

      • Rachael says:

        He also states in his own written testimony the he was asked to stop following so he knew darn well what “we don’t need you to do that” meant/ means (I say this for all his supporters who say he was not asked to top following).

        • dianetrotter says:

          What’s totally ridiculous is for GZ supporters to make a distinction between “We don’t need you to do that!” and “Stop fool!”

          • manberk says:

            @dianetrotter Or whether he was in the truck or out of it when Sean had to instruct him to stop. How the heck would Sean know a trained NW captain would be that stupid?

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            What’s totally ridiculous is for GZ supporters to make a distinction between “We don’t need you to do that!” and “Stop fool!”

            Some NW stuff here

            THE RATL COMMUNITY NEWSLETTER HERE

            Plenty of stuff you need to argue that GZ knew what the SPD’s position was on what he was doing. They strenuously forbade him doing what he was doing that night and he knew it. Which, of course, is why he constructed all those lies to conceal what he was doing.

            He knew it would not be legal for him to rush up to Trayvon and put his hands on him or even question him. So, he concocted a lie that Trayvon had rushed him. How likely is it that a child, with no ability or training to fight, who knew he had trouble lifting 25lbs, would rush at a 207lb adult stranger capable of doing heaven only knows what?
            Sorry George the story doesn’t fly. But then to pile on top of it that the resulting assault was deadly???? George, you’ve clearly lost your marbles. Guns are deadly George and you had one, Trayvon did not have a gun and he got shot and killed.

            George Zimmerman, you are one sorry mess of a monster, a very sick puppy, a beast. And, in case you didn’t think anyone knows it, yes, we know you enjoyed terrorizing and killing the kid and you’d love nothing better than to have a chance to do it again. We’ve seen how much effort you have to put into keeping yourself from smiling and laughing with enjoyment at the memory of what you did. So, we’re determined that our societies legal functions will prevent you from ever again having the opportunity to kill an innocent child again.

            Sit back and enjoy the ride GZ, the jig, as they say is up!
            |||=> Tick Tock! <-|||

          • dianetrotter says:

            His smiles are eerie and erotic looking.

          • onlyiamunitron says:

            “His smiles are eerie and erotic looking.”

            I’m almost afraid to ask, but whose smiles?

            unitron

          • dianetrotter says:

            Oops! Sleazy GZ’s. smiles. lol

          • onlyiamunitron says:

            ‘Oops! Sleazy GZ’s. smiles. lol”

            Oh, great, now I’ve got Zimmerman and erotic associated together in my brain.

            Unsee! Unsee!

            Of course the rhyming nature of sleazy geezee probably means that’ll be the new meme.

            unitron

          • @ uni…..piss off and go away

            Nuff said

          • racerrodig says:

            You got my vote. Get back on the Troll Train Tron

          • Have mom & dad ever mentioned that their son was a deadbeat who they were supporting….and now they need donations to support their lifestyle?

          • Xena says:

            @MMPat.

            Have mom & dad ever mentioned that their son was a deadbeat who they were supporting….

            Vaguely. They did write on their website that they shipped GZ to Florida right after high school where he lived in their retirement house until they fully retired. They didn’t mention the gang tattoo, but that along with comments on his MySpace page lead to the reasonable conclusion that GZ was involved in a gang in VA.

          • Ever heard of the Hessian’s? A sister club of the Mongels?
            I was an associate before moving to Colo……….I refused to be a prospect and get my colors ……Another example of my independence……

            http://hessiansmc.com/

            My coy dog is buried in one of theirs back yards ……I called them in tears that Emuti was dead…..”What can we do for you Pat?”…..that was ’95 …..

            I still miss that dog….great hunter with the Coyote in her….many dogs in my life……Emuti…. & Miss Mouse ( the current dog) will always have a special place in my heart….

            Snowin’ now 45 * angle…..

            Later Taters

            HOODIES UP

            JUSTICE FOR TRAYVON

          • Xena says:

            @MMPat. Had not heard of Hessian’s but knew guys in Hell’s Lovers MC. They called me “Nun.” LOL!!

          • “After the war, the honorable treatment afforded to Hessian prisoners & troops by America’s citizens
            and the seemingly unlimited prospects for a prosperous life in a bountiful new land
            indeed prompted most Hessians to remain and settle in the newly formed FREE Republic.
            Their bold character and agricultural heritage played no small part in the early development of the
            United States of America.”

    • cielo62 says:

      LOL! Paranoia runs rampant in that family!

      Sent from my iPod

      • ay2z says:

        If Sis is involved in the chain of events that led to her brother killing a child on her alert or description, and if fogen was waiting on RTV in his vehicle lights off, waiting for Trayvon to appear, she might have felt the need to involve herself further to help her brother.

        Does go to why the family feels ‘they’ are under scrutiny, if two of the family were involved in surveillance of Trayvon.

        Three little apples from the same tree.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Involvement by Grace would certainly heighten the Fogen family paranoia. I would imagine she’s remained entirely silent and has likely asked Jr. to never mention her in order to salvage her career.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Yes, a smart cookie, unlike her bros.

      • tonydphotog says:

        I find it interesting that it’s only the “men” in fogen’s family defending him (and his family) Except for the shadow puppet mother, who doesn’t watch the news, and is only told what they want her to know.

        It seems like they believe they’re not only superior to black people, but women, too.

        • racerrodig says:

          Not only did Fogen have her electric shut off when he was pissed at her a few years ago, looks like they stole her TV remote.

      • Jun says:

        I actually do not feel they are paranoid

        They are just scheisters from the dime store

  26. Trained Observer says:

    Intriguing, LLMPapa.

    • Trained Observer says:

      What all is known about Grace C. Zimmerman?

      • Trained Observer says:

        Apart from the whispery jailhouse phone call.

      • ay2z says:

        Well, we know this is not the first time fogen had a call to police with concerns about ‘sis’ over at Colonial.

        Here’s the document, see page 9 of 47. Rereading it now.

        http://www.motherjones.com/documents/327330-george-zimmerrman-911-call-history

      • ay2z says:

        need help with those codes, manberk, don’t know. But I’m checking out the location of her address on Hillwood now.

      • ay2z says:

        Map shows that the address is pinpointed (fwiw) by google mpas, as being near the corner of Hillwood and Millwood. Should show up on Papa’s video, as a short block over from the kiosk.

        Satellite view is interesting. Almost looks like there’s a sidewalk far right side of the complex that would be a short cut through near Taaffe’s place.

        Sunday night, the spin was Sundays always mentored the kids (and we know they weren’t mentoring kids that day. Usually SZ and fogen went to do grocery shopping, they said, but this time fogen gives the impression he went alone.

        Where was sz when fogen called her that night?

        Why was sis so involved in hiding the money?

        • dianetrotter says:

          I don’t let my husband do the grocery shopping. GZ is a couple of ants short of a picnic so why would anyone let him shop for groceries? Also, I know there are Super Targets but I prefer a regular grocery store.for serious shopping.

          • racerrodig says:

            In this area, Target is the most expensive place to buy food, why would I spend more……oh, Target is the only card they had with a little credit headroom……..my bad. It had to fit “The Story”

          • cielo62 says:

            Diane- while agree that GZ is indeed a couple of ants short of a picnic, it seems his wife left the entire basket at home. That’s why they usually had to go together.

            Sent from my iPod

          • fauxmccoy says:

            cielo says

            while agree that GZ is indeed a couple of ants short of a picnic, it seems his wife left the entire basket at home. That’s why they usually had to go together.

            i’ll take ‘the blind helping the blind with good budgeting and dietary practices’ for 1000$, alex?

            😉

          • fauxmccoy says:

            dianetrotter says

            I don’t let my husband do the grocery shopping. GZ is a couple of ants short of a picnic so why would anyone let him shop for groceries? Also, I know there are Super Targets but I prefer a regular grocery store.for serious shopping.

            smart move on not letting your husband do the shopping. as much as i love my own dear husband, i know this is the surest way to send our monthly budget to hell in a bucket — let him go to a grocery store with the ATM card. ouch!

            if you are gz however and your diet consists of hot pockets and poptarts, well then target may just be the place to go 😉

      • ay2z says:

        11307 Hillwood Sanford Florida

        From there to Taafee’s place on RvC by foot——->

        From mail kiosk, travel east on Millwood, sis’s address in the area of Millwood and Hillwood NE corner, continue along Millwood, cut over parking area, go across Barewood, then onto sidewalk that takes you to the back side of the complex near the westernmost point of Retreat View Circle (aka Taafee’s place).

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Diane, some people really do all or most of their grocery shopping at Target or Walmart, and the superstores really do have a full selection of food.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Thanks, AY2Z. I hadn’t known the call list was so extensive and included references to Fogen’s sister.

      • GZ stated that he and SZ mentored kids that very night. Has it been proven that they actually did not? Did I miss something? Is this a further statement on which to impeach the defendant?

        • racerrodig says:

          He mentored no one…if he did, we’d all know about it. There are no mentored kids names on any witness list and the only one who stated it is Fogen.

      • I am inclined to believe the same, Race, but our saying that GZ mentored no one with conviction does not make it evidence or fact.

        I simply wondered if there had been evidence presented to show that he did not, in fact, mentor that very evening, as he stated he did on the Hannity show.

    • ay2z says:

      Wow, incredible work.

      Would the video camera’s at that complex have been working, and could they have had a camera at the kiosk?

      Explains why ‘sis’ might have a personal stake in this fight if she had a direct role leading up to the event of that night and why she put her professional lawyer conduct on the line by helping brother get his money out of the court’s view.

      • ay2z says:

        ‘Part of the chain’

      • Malisha says:

        Remember, DeeDee did nothing to make any of this happen, and she got caught up in it because she was on the phone with her boyfriend, a perfectly legal and comprehensible behavior.

        Remember, Fogen DID PLENTY to make this all happen. There is every reason to investigate and evaluate every single thing he did, every single thing he said, every single thing in his past, every single person who has helped him to either do this or to hide this, every reason to chase every rat down every rat-hole. There is NO REASON to chase after a person who did NOT cause this to happen but who must now alter her life to serve the cause of justice. There IS REASON to evaluate everything on the defendant’s side of this nasty story. Nothing HE HAS EVER DONE is private now that he has reached out to kill somebody and then has excused himself boldly and dishonestly by defaming the victim of his murderous attack.

      • aussie says:

        @ay2z
        “…Explains why ‘sis’ might have a personal stake in this fight if she had a direct role leading up to the event of that night and why she put her professional lawyer conduct on the line by helping brother get his money out of the court’s view…”

        Nowhere is it shown GZ’s sister is a lawyer. There was once long ago something posted to this effect…a female with the surname Zimmerman who is a lawyer in California and speaks Spanish as well as English. No evidence at all that she’s related to GZ.

        Google for the name, or look at one of those sites that claim to have everyone’s phone numbers :: you’ll find several 100 “zimmerman” in Florida alone. They are not all related. There’s even someone with that surname working at the clinic in Alta Monte that GZ went to.

    • Malisha says:

      Stunned by your brilliance, LLMPapa!

      And Fogen’s relationship to Grace was sooooooo much different from — from — from other — well, he might well have been headed over THERE rather than to Target, shall we say? And she might well have been interested in helping Fogen really achieve greatness by ridding the community of the “bad element” — well, wow, the possibilities — this story gets more and more fascinating. THANK YOU LLMPapa!

      • ay2z says:

        Malisha, I am thinking there will be no need for speculation, ‘to Target or not To Target’ won’t be the unanswered question because we have SZ who was at the center of communications. Who was it, and where were they, when they got a description of Trayvon, and his button on his shirt? Likely they passed that along to fogen when he was on the NEN call.

        Phone records and SZ’s cooperation, and Trayvon’s phone. Was this the mystery 26th phone records we have not seen shared from the defense?

        Could there be cell phone tower pings that position Trayvon’s route home from the convenience store?

        And what about the report of a problem suspicious person at Grace’s place in the past. Interesting, who’d she call? Not NEN, not 911, not her neighbor, but her brother who was driving on the freeway at the time.

        Who would she call if she saw a suspicious person,who didn’t looklike a resident out to pick up mail and hurry home with it.

        This is the missing link to the beginning of the story, thanks so much Papa.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        This could be a stretch – but could Grace, not Shellie, have been the one accompanying Fogen, the one the person that some seem to hear in the background of the NEN call? Not a trip to Target but a trip to visit sis or take her home?

    • ay2z says:

      Papa nailed it. Stop the video at 4:57, that’s Taafee’s house lawn, look in the background, not far at all, is a lighter color building, that’s Grace Zimmerman’s complex building off Barewood.

    • willisnewton says:

      THIS IS DOXING and should be taken down pronto, and a profuse apology issued IMO.

      Plus, it’s speculative to an extreme and isn’t really a helpful way to explore and PEER REVIEW such a theory and then closely compare the available evidence already in the public realm and THEN decide if it’s worth handing the defense a big fat easter present in the form of now getting to claim a tit-for-tat threat to the safety and sanctity of unrelated parties.

      I’m offended. I am appalled. This is a mistake, and the stupid theory very likely isn’t even right anyway.

      Dee Dee credibly describes TM leaving ONE mail kiosk to walk home past a creepy guy in a car, who then follows him, causing him to run off the roadway. This happened on Twin Trees Lane while GZ was being recorded describing the very same activity.

      Explore the idea, sure. But don’t post this junk on YouTube FIRST and then run with it, sending out a wave of casual evidence followers to muddy the waters.

      Many things are possible. What GZ claimed happened is not possible.

      • LLMPapa says:

        Perhaps your self righteous indignation would be better served by a closer examination and awareness of the evidence in this case.

        To wit: George Zimmerman’s Police Call History. Page 9

        http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/327330-george-zimmerrman-911-call-history.html

        Her SPECIFIC address, including street number, was provided as evidence by the City of Sanford, FL last March.

        HINT: Grace Zimmerman is the ONLY “little sister” George Zimmerman has.

        I stand by every word contained in the video.

        LLMPapa

      • Two sides to a story says:

        If you think it’s doxing, I doubt it. Grace’s address and some previous addresses haves long been publicly available online by googling her name since the case broke.

      • cielo62 says:

        It’s not doxing if the information is already in the public domain AND no illegal use is being made of it. LLMPapa, you make an interesting theory plausible. WHEN phone records become available, I believe you will be right.

        • Xena says:

          @Cielo62

          It’s not doxing if the information is already in the public domain AND no illegal use is being made of it.

          No and yes. It is doxing if information in the public domain is posted elsewhere by a party without the person’s permission for the purpose to defame, slander, demean, threaten, and/or cause emotional distress.

          Had LLMPapa’s video included the street number for GZ’s sister’s address, I would have a problem with that. Also, since she lost her job after the money transfers and ShelLIE’s arrest, she probably no longer lives at that address anyway.

    • Bill Taylor says:

      TY for the work you have done, simply amazing, i always wondered why there was such confidence on the part of the prosecution, i knew the physical evidence shows fogen is lying but juries are strange creatures, but now it seems they have an iron clad case showing fogen has lied on every element from the very start of this, they have the records that cant be disputed.

    • Mary Davis says:

      @ LLMPapa. This is what Lonnie has been saying all along.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Yes, I recall Lonnie referring to TM possibly walking a different route.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Initially GZ’s story of how he encountered TM by Taaffe’s did not seem credible. The walk through only confirmed my suspicions that GZ was making up that part of the story. The road navigation at that point was too complex and difficult, for GZ to focus his attention on anything but the wet road in the rain and the dark. Thus, if TM had been standing where GZ says he first saw him, he’d have been almost completely invisible from the road, especially in his dark hoodie.

          Just look at the map [http://tinyurl.com/abmxlof ] Notice how the road bends to the west, meaning that you have to keep your hands on the wheel and eyes on the road and steer all the way down. Now at the north end of RVC the road turns just a wee bit sharper west, before making a 90 degree turn to the east. You had better have your eyes on the road at this point to see the headlamp spread that will warn of oncoming traffic as you attempt to navigate this corner. So, where’s the time or comfort to look 90 degrees to the right and peer into the darkness between houses through a rain speckled driver side window? So, that was my first clue that GZ was lying.

          The second clue was that GZ was claiming to have witness TM making movements in that area, that would clearly have taken him 10 to 15 seconds to accomplish, and yet… GZ is watching all this without stopping? He’s continuing to move at some 20 to 30 feet per second for 15 seconds, while watching Trayvon walk out from between houses, around a parked car to stand idly on the grass by a road sign. Well, it’s either that or TM is not supposed to have noticed a truck stopped in the roadway directly across from himself in the rain. Neither idea makes any sense, so it most likely did not happen.

          Then GZ says something really stupid. He drives to the clubhouse and parks right? Well that’s a 15 second drive, but it’s a 1 minute and 20 second walk. But, he says that almost as soon as he parked, here comes Trayvon walking up to his vehicle. Wow, Trayvon can walk between 25 and 30 miles per hour, eh? …And GZ says he doesn’t look like an athlete??? Well hell, what does look like an athlete in GZ’s book?

          I have to wonder what the police would have thought if GZ had reported: “Gee, there’s a suspicious black male walking around the neighborhood at between 20 and 30 miles per hour, he doesn’t look like an athlete out training in the rain, can you send someone over?”

          Hoodies Up!
          Justice for Trayvon!
          |||=> Tick Tock! <-|||

          • manberk says:

            @lonnie I forget the detail now but I thought I remembered Singleton implying Fogen didnt initially put TM at Taffes.

            And dont forget, there was also a car backing up shortly after GZ spots TM. He says he had to avoid it by driving around HIM. The “him” sounding like it was TM not the car. I think TM was walking in the street.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            The entire segment of the story, from the start at FT’s cut through was a fabrication. GZ made that up to conceal the fact that someone or others were out there watching Trayvon’s progress and keeping him notified of it.

            He did not suddenly leave his house, on a shopping trip, in time to coincidentally spot TM returning from the store, and coursing through the cut through by FT’s place. Because it would not have taken Trayvon that long, being hustled along by the rain, to complete the ~13 minute walk to the RATL mail kiosk. At a fast walk he could make the trip in less than 10 minutes. So he’s in the RATL mail shed, no matter what route he took, by and before 6:54 pm. which is before GZ leaves home. That’s his truck that the cctv spots coming north on RVC west, that turns and heads over to TTL, then turns back towards FT’s place before stopping, turning and heading directly to TTL to take up a station at the mail kiosk and begin the NeN call. [See: http://tinyurl.com/bn5e4xe The master revisable timeline] If you know of an event with a certifiable time, that should be included in this timeline, leave it and it’s authority as a comment and I’ll add it. Thanks.

          • manberk says:

            I agree. I dont beleive any of it. The clubhouse and Taffee addresses were all used previously. They were his cover. Great timeline! I dont think Ive seen yours. I’ll check it out. Thanks.

      • gbrbsb says:

        Me too, but there may still e more surprises, I think!

    • ladystclaire says:

      This lump of NOTHING deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison and, his sister should be slapped with charges for her part in this also! this just absolutely make me sick. Thank you PAPA

    • SearchingMind says:

      @ LLMPapa

      a. Thanks for your creativity. Your power of imagination and creative thinking is really awesome.

      b. I predict that the gps-data (from GZ’s and Trayvon’s phones) will ultimately prove your point. I predict that those data will show, among others, that GZ did NOT leave his house to go to target, but in fact has been circling the neighborhood for about an hour or more before Trayvon was shot.

      c. GZ also claimed that Trayvon was cutting through complexes. GZ himself affirms DeeDee.

      d. I do not think that your demo comes anywhere close to “doxing”.

      Thanks for your work, once again.

    • Jun says:

      We will not know for sure until we see phone records and the GPS records

    • Rachael says:

      O M G!

    • kllypyn says:

      I,KNEW,I @#$%%^^ KNEW IT. He was watching and following Trayvon long before he called the police on him.

    • Romaine says:

      Thank you for this video LLMPAPA, i’ve been looking for this mail kiosk for months, i kept saying to myself there has to be another mail shed, even before w8’s letter. I will now wait to see Trayvons true route within the complex, hopefully the GPS info from the phones will reveal the route i believe TM took.

    • Romaine says:

      LLMPAPA, can you do me a favor, if you have the time? research the meaning of the “back” GZ states all of the burgulars exit the complex via the back exit. My concern is why run through and around the complex via the dog walk when one has a straight path using retreatview circle via long oak way and your out of the complex?????

  27. Soulcatcher says:

    In response to ZimmJr comment,
    “If he was portrayed the way he portrayed himself it might not have gotten to this point.” Robert, Are you on drugs or something? Okay, I saw the picture of Trayvon you posted, and other than confirming you are a racist, your point is? Oh yes, the media should stop depicting the teen as “a child walking home eating Skittles.” Post all the pictures you want, it doesn’t change the facts, Trayvon was a
    teen walking home eating Skittles.” As for the picture of George taken when George was significantly heavier than he was on the night of the shooting – made him look like a “monster.” And, of course this is your opinion. I see the a current Image of George that you would like him portrayed as. It is the one that was taken very shortly after you and your family say George was almost killed by Trayvon, the slimmed down George, all nice and tidey, walking up the ramp at the police station, looking like he’s the shit, sporting a pair of sun glasses around his neck, you know with that broken nose and all, just for looks, maybe a few little healed scratches. The truth is, that’s how we got to this point. Yes indeed, a picture paints a thousand words, any question?

    Ps I know it’s been said that you are a racist, it would not be fair to judge George, and your parents as such. IMO, I believe one of Georges good friends used a quote referring to the burglaries that were committed by black boys, “if you grown corn, you get corn.”

    Oh Robert, just a suggestion, If you had a job singing, consider going back to it, cause the crap your dishing out is not helping your brother, if that’s what your trying to do.

    • Malisha says:

      In other words, if people knew that once Trayvon raised his third finger(s) in a naughty gesture, they would have been perfectly cool with Fogen chasing him down and shooting him in the heart with a hollowpoint bullet? Well, I guess so…that’s what is implied by that assertion, right?

      You know what I say to that stupid stupid stupid stupid STUPID (to quote Judge Jack Stephens referring to a decision made by the US Supreme Court and signed by Chief Justice Rhenquist) idea? I raise both of my middle fingers, to answer that stupid stupid stupid stupid STUPID idea.

    • Jun says:

      It’s very simple. Fogen Jr is a jerk off. LOL

      So what if Trayvon flipped the bird in a photo. Fogen has a photo of him in jail for attacking police. It is not even comparable.

      • racerrodig says:

        Exactly……a flaming jerk off in my book. A wild Wheel Standing Flaming Jerk Off to be even more accurate.

  28. vickie s. votaw says:

    Faux, I used to be a telephone operator back in the old days, I met many a lonely drunk , just needing someone to talk to in the wee hours of the mornings. Give the zbots all the rope they want & hang them high. IMO, from day one , I believed z came from nazi roots.

    • Check their ancestry…..Other than the Afro / Peruvian one….

      • cielo62 says:

        Fauxy and MMP- Argentina and Peru as well as interior South American countries (Bolivia comes to mind) were well known hiding destinations for former Nazi war criminals. Would not surprise me that neo nazi cells thrived in such areas among the “elite.”

        Sent from my iPod

        • So was the US….ie: Operation Paperclip

        • fauxmccoy says:

          yes, cielo, i am very aware of south american retirement homes of the SS, which is why i do not discount the theory entirely. i prefer that we as a group of bloggers remain firmly in the fact based world instead of making accusations based on maybes. if someone were to research that line of thought and produce evidence to support it, then i am all for it.

          • cielo62 says:

            Faux- no offense meant. I am not qualified to do such research but even so, it doesn’t pertain to this case. I barely remember what brought this up? Anyway, sorry. (I have ADHD too. That’s my excuse and I’m sticking to it)

            Sent from my iPod

          • fauxmccoy says:

            no offense taken, cielo and please forgive if i may have even implied that i was offended.

            i am cautious of any family history being presented for anyone in this case. i have my reasons, but ultimately i think it has no bearing on the actions of anyone currently living.

          • cielo62 says:

            Faux McCoy- 🙂 and you are right; GZ did this all on his lonesome (or maybe with some help) but ancestors don’t have anything to do with it.

            Sent from my iPod

      • looneydoone says:

        cielo,
        Bolivia. Search the first Austrian Jews to arrive in La Paz during the summer of 1938. Among them, Bertha and Nathan Wolfinger, parents of Ella who married Peter Becker in order to obtain a visa . She committed suicide during the first year of the marriage. Her parents emigrated to NYC after WW11, and are buried in Reigersville, PA (9 miles outside Easton).

        There’s a bio/history book “Hotel Bolivia” authored by Mr Spitzer who was amongst the first Jewish refugee’s to find safety in Bolivia and more info in the Holocaust records (*search Ella Wolfinger, Bolivia)

        • cielo62 says:

          looneydoone~ are you saying that the Wolfingers are Jewish? We know that the Zimmermans are not. And while Austrian Jews were escaping there, so were former Nazi officers. Hmmmm.

          ________________________________

      • looneydoone says:

        cielo,
        The first of the immigrants from Austria to Bolivia in 1938 included Nathan & Bertha Wolfinger, and two of their daughters, one married Leo? Spitzer, the other Ella was pressured to marry a Peter Becker who worked at the embassy and could get them visas out of Europe and to Bolivia. After the war, Nathan and Bertha emigrated again, to NYC. I thought it odd that these two would be buried outside Easton, PA (Norm Wolfinger’s home town)
        I have no idea if they were Jewish, or simply people who found a need to get out of Austria in 1938.

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          The couple to whom you refer seem to be featured in Leo Spitzer’s book “Hotel Bolivia”

          http://compellingjewishstories.blogspot.com/2011_01_01_archive.html

          and are almost certainly Jewish, but I don’t know if they are the same Nathan and Bertha buried in Easton or not.

          Easton is in Northampton county which was formed from parts of Bucks county, and there have been Wolfingers in Bucks county since the early 1800’s, and judging by the number buried in Christian church cemeteries, plenty of them weren’t Jewish.

          So, maybe coincidence.

          unitron

    • fauxmccoy says:

      bless you, vickie for taking those drunks off of someone’s hands! i’ve quite the low tolerance level myself. i would not go so far as to speculate on nazi roots (although there may be truth there) what i do know is this family has ‘DYSFUNCTIONAL’ stamped across all their foreheads. 🙂

      • ay2z says:

        Agree, faux. That is dangerously close to stereotyping that is exactly what caused problems for young Trayvon in the first place.

        Not that personal views of the father aren’t important, but need more than speculation to get there. The family is doing well enough to fuel racism on their own, for whatever reason.

  29. elcymoo says:

    This was beyond disgusting:

    https://twitter.com/rzimmermanjr
    Robert Zimmerman JR ‏@rzimmermanjr 29 Mar
    Luke 23:21 “Crucify him! Crucify him! pic.twitter.com/xmc2totRWJ
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    1:36 PM – 29 Mar 13 · Details Flag media Flagged (learn more)
    Dana Vazzano ‏@danavazzano 13h
    @rzimmermanjr You aren’t seriously trying to compare george to jesus, are you? Really?
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    Embed Tweet Robert Zimmerman JR ‏@rzimmermanjr 13h
    .@danavazzano The crowd screaming “crucify him” was misled & thought they were getting “justice” – Just like the ones screaming “arrest GZ”.

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    11:35 AM – 30 Mar 13 · Details

    • fauxmccoy says:

      drunk tweeting :/ the 21st century version of ‘drunk dialing’ best to not look or hang up quickly. no good can come from that shit.

      • At least he knows how to say “thank you very much” in Korean

        Wonder if he knows “Ich bin ein Arschloch”?

      • Jun says:

        Thank You Very Much in Korean is

        Kum Sau Hamma Dai

        at least that is what i was taught

      • You beat me to it, LOL! I was just going to say, keeping it on the real, RZ needs to get some help with the drinking. So, what that would look like is, checking into residential treatment, where no computers are allowed, and they are not allowed so that the person can get a grasp and an idea of the problem.

        In the old days of the AA program, we referred to this sort of ranting as ‘black wire fever.’ That was before twitter, and the phrase referred to getting on the phone, shitfaced piss drunk, and calling people. This stuff looks like a case of black wire fever.

        If he’s not drunk, he needs to get some help with quitting this craziness. Comparing his brother to the Son of God, on Easter, no less, is egregious. For one thing, just stating the grossly obvious here, IMO, it’s disrespectful to the memory of Jesus and the meaning of Easter. I’m not particularly fanatic in the religion area, but I wonder what possible motive he could have for tweeting this, because it looks asinine and inappropriate.

    • ay2z says:

      I don’t get it. Why is there such a thing as an ‘immunity hearing’, or ‘syg hearing’ by any other name under the Florida law? Why do you need a hearing at all, just opinion of the local cops.

      Sybrina and Tracy did not ask for anything but an arrest.

      From the fogen’s own mouth about his brother, quote “Bobbie’s just, you know, useless”

      • ay2z says:

        Not that two of the killer’s biggest supporters outside the legal family circle, are not just as useless as Junior, and probably class ‘sis’ in there too, a lawyer helping her brother by facilitating tranfer of thousands of dollars to clear his account before the bond hearing, both to her own account and to SZ’s account.

        Quote Taaffe about the gun and shooter’s anger issues, “He was made as hell and not going to take it anymore”.

        (anyone wonder about Taafee’s convenient leaving doors, windows open, unlocked, and that being coincidentally the house by the shortcut? Hanging out a carrot, or putting a fresh baked apply pie on the sill, not a reach that they might want to bait and trap at that location.

        Quote Billy Badass “I would say to him, under NO circumstances would you get out of your vehicle, it’s not your job”.

    • Malisha says:

      So now, an unconfirmed passage from the New Testament blaming Pontius Pilate’s actions upon a crowd of Jews (and remember, he was accusing Jesus of being “King of the Jews”) is equal in evidentiary force to a prosecution brought by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, based upon a finding of probable cause? So people who back the State’s use of its own laws to prosecute a defendant are seen as equivalent to a crowd of SUBJECTS of Roman occupation responding verbally (according to reports made after the fact) to a military execution (Rome had an Army; the Hebrews did not) after an occupier’s “trial” of someone accused of defying the authority of Rome?

      This proves not only that Junior has come unhinged (if he did not in fact start off that way) but also that he has a very muddy understanding both of the theology of the Christian religion AND of the law of the State of Florida.

      But strangely it does reflect some of the Fogen mindset problems. Fogen sees Trayvon and thinks: “suspicious; up to no good; on drugs or somepin; asshole; fucking punk [or worse]” and he chases him down and kills him and then says it was self-defense. THEN he gets monumentally insulted and indignant that he is disbelieved! So naturally, he presumes himself a victim at all times. Constantly up there suffering on his own personal cross, pinned there by unnamed evil forces who do not recognize his essential divinity.

      Both of these boys, for one reason or another, never got around to aligning their own psyches with the reality of a world full of people who do not have to worship them. Tsk Tsk Tsk!!

      • racerrodig says:

        So Hoodies are a spin. This guy truly is a turd brain.

      • Jun says:

        Even though Fogen Jr thinks he is smart by memorizing long words to appear thru perception, his analytical skills leave much to be desired

        If he wants to do a comparison, Fogen is more like the hillbillies in the movie Deliverance

      • Xena says:

        @Malisha. I would question Junior’s understanding of salvation. Jesus Christ knew why he was born, what he was to do, when it was to be done, and how it was to be accomplished.

        GZ is more like the thief on the cross who told Jesus to save himself and him. That thief recognized Jesus’ power, authority and ability, but wanted to use it to save his own life, without repentance, so he could continue living a life of crime. That is GZ.

    • racerrodig says:

      A sick bunch, that’s for sure, but they can all stick to that side of the room.

    • Rachael says:

      Speechless

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Pretty thin following. His last tweet received was 8hours ago, when he got about 5 tweets. His cause appears to be losing steam. Hardly a wonder, since he’s been forced to admit to making some pretty disgusting blunders that he had to apologize for. The conservatives will feel that, if he can’t keep up the delusion that he’s always right, who needs him?

        • Does “put brain in gear before engaging mouth” qualify for junior?

          • racerrodig says:

            Not with a burnt up clutch and all those stripped gears it doesn’t.

          • My ’66 ‘Tang..had reworded Hooker headers….
            reduced to 3 inch and 3 quarter pipes…..going into 4 Thrush one and 3 quarter’s Cherry Bomb glass packs…

            Those were the days my friend…….

          • racerrodig says:

            Had ’65 fastback that went 12:40’s @ 109 back in the mid 70’s. That was fast for the time, especially a small block.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            nice, mmp 🙂

            my bro is a top notch mechanic in the bay area, been building street rods since before we could ‘legally’ drive. i’m the only chick he ever let drive the beasts because i can actually explain what a ‘four speed, dual quad, posi-traction 409’ is. 😉

            (for me, it was a 62 mercury monterey sedan, 352 large block, 3 on the tree, dual 4 barrel holley carbs, dual exhaust with glass packs. looked like a sleeper, but definitely was not)

          • racerrodig says:

            I just did a partial restoration on a 64 Galaxy 352…..convertible !! One happy customer now.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            sweeeeeeet on the galaxy — if you have photos, you have my email. i’m an old ford aficionado. 🙂 i have had men actually try to argue with me on the 352 – say it did not exist or was not a large block engine or i was confusing it with a 351. dumazzes.

          • racerrodig says:

            You’re right & their wrong….hint to tell ’em off. Both have the same internal dimensions 4.00″ bore X 3.50″ stroke. The 2nd one (351 Windsor, then 1 year later, 1970, the Cleveland) were named as 351 so as to avoid confusion.

            The old FE Big Block started as a 332, then 352, 390, 406, 410, 427, 428 and several truck variants, 360 etc.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            oh, i know racer, i know. my dad and bro taught me how to replace the starter and generator (and later to rebuild and carry a spare in the cavernous trunk … cause why not?). first starter replace was in front of my house in san francisco with car pushed up onto the curb with bro yelling instructions on a cordless phone. some dude walked by and said he was a mechanic and offered to help. my bro laughed like hell and to said to tell the guy that “i don’t trust a walking mechanic!”. big fun 🙂 hell of a job putting it back on, but you get the hang of it.

          • cielo62 says:

            Faux Mccoy~ Thats cuz men don’t wantto admit that a WOMAN could know more about cars than them. I know more about cars than my brothers. NOT as much as you guys, but hey! More is more, right?  🙂

          • Had a ’68 F100 wif a 351 Cleveland ……best truck I’ve ever owned…….even with 2 20 gal saddle tanks…….8 MPG…..Drove the SOB off a cliff…no wheels touching the ground…..after getting yanked off the cliff….no probs….ran like a charm……..built Ford tough…………Now?………I’m addicted to Toyota P/U’s

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Back in the 50’s when I was a kid, whenever family had car problems they always called Aunt Viola, you’ve never seen people so happy as when they heard her motorcycle turn into the block.

          • racerrodig says:

            I took some pics for you of the 64, it’s for sale by the way. If you love old iron, stop by any time. I just did a lot of work on a real cool 37 Ford Pick Up. Poor old guy had it to half a dozen shops and none of them could get it right. I did a bunch of things to it and he had been afraid of taking it more than 20 miles from home. He went from my shop to northern NY on Wednesday and back without so much as a hiccup…..64 Olds F85 in the shop also.

          • Find me a mid 60’s F100 PU with a 194 6 and I’m ur huckleberery

          • racerrodig says:

            My best friend has a 65 F100, 1st of the Twin I beams for sale.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            oh pat – did i have the truck of your dreams! i did call it a mid-60s f100 because it consisted of pieces of 64-66 f100 body parts. it was a farm truck that all the men in my family rejected until it came to me. ugly does not even begin to cover it. we estimate 300k miles, meter maid did not know what ‘color’ to write on her little form. it’s the kind of truck you hate so much after 5 years because it just keeps starting, that you give it to someone just to make it go away. sadly, i already gave it to someone but i’m sure it’s around town somewhere.

          • cielo62 says:

            Fauxy, MMP and Racer~ uh… are you guys speaking in tongues or sumpin?

          • racerrodig says:

            Not really. Race cars and such are what I do for a living.MMP & faux are telling me about past car & trucks. A little off topic but only unitron will care so no biggie. At least “Peter Pan” didn’t enter into it !!

            Now let me tell you about this BBC with the 1/4 longer arm @.060 over. The heads are old style L88 with a lot of porting done. Weiand 1985 Tunnel Ram and a pair of flogged to the max RCS double pumpers. The cam is a Crane .737 – 726 with 276 @.050 duration……follow me? Oh, the cam is on a 108 Center line and it’s degree’ d it at 106 Makes about 775 HP at 70000. & reliable too.

          • cielo62 says:

            Hey Racer Boy~ 

              I hope it embeds.  🙂   yeah, and uh, uh… my car has wheels. ROUND ones!   BTW have you ever fixed up a 1995 Del Sol with a VTEC engine?    I’m slowly having mine brought back from the dead. This one pictured isn’t mine, but it is the same color and all. can’t wait to drive it!                   racerrodig commented: “Not really. Race cars and such are what I do for a living.MMP & faux are telling me about past car & trucks. A little off topic but only unitron will care so no biggie. At least “Peter Pan” didn’t enter into it !! Now let me tell you about th” Respond to this comment by replying above this line New comment on Frederick Leatherman Law Blog racerrodig commented on The Prosecution did not violate the Brady rule in Zimmerman case. in response to cielo62: Fauxy, MMP and Racer~ uh… are you guys speaking in tongues or sumpin? Not really. Race cars and such are what I do for a living.MMP & faux are telling me about past car & trucks. A little off topic but only unitron will care so no biggie. At least “Peter Pan” didn’t enter into it !! Now let me tell you about this BBC with the 1/4 longer arm @.060 over. The heads are old style L88 with a lot of porting done. Weiand 1985 Tunnel Ram and a pair of flogged to the max RCS double pumpers. The cam is a Crane .737 – 726 with 276 @.050 duration……follow me? Oh, the cam is on a 108 Center line and it’s degree’ d it at 106 Makes about 775 HP at 70000. & reliable too. Reply    Comments Want less email? Modify your Subscription Options. Thanks for flying with WordPress.com

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @cielo — well at least you don’t have ‘fred flinstone brakes’ … unlike some looser who i wound up with on a blind date from hell many years ago. 🙂 i snuck out the kitchen at the tacqueria, explained my problem, and the kitchen staff helped me get on a bus without detection 🙂

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Nope Afro Peruvians are exempt.

        • manberk says:

          @lonnie a couple of them were probably me, and they were not nice. 🙂 I had trouble sleeping.

  30. Jun says:

    I wonder how Omara feels about begging for money that Fogen wont give him, and Omara has to trick Fogen to get money, by claiming it is for OFFICE UPGRADES LOL

    • Mary Davis says:

      @ Jun. I really don’t believe that there’s that much money in the fund. Omara wants raciest to think the money is still coming in. Just another scheme to get more blood money. This man should be ashamed of himself.

      • Mary Davis says:

        What kind of Lawyer would depend on advise from a hate group.
        I have never heard of this in my entire life. He actually asked for their help. What kind of representation is this. I wouldn’t hire him for all the tea in China. Makes one wonder if he knows what he is doing, but I guess he does have some kind of stragedy. whatever it is. I retired from the U.S. Attorney’s Office, Any attorney that would stoop this low would be run out of town.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Mary Davis, only a racist lawyer would do something like that. also, after seeing LLMPAPA’S most recent video, I can see why Fogen and his fellow racist are out to get her, DeeDee has got the goods on him and he knows it.

        O’mara wanting to video tape her deposition, was his attempt to put her image out there for IDIOTS who mean to do her harm. IMO, he is the one who needs to have sanctions imposed on him because, he has done a lot of things that I consider illegal.

      • @ladystclaire

        Thank you! O’Mara want the racist to intimidate and ridicule her. I can’t say on this blog what I think of him. This child and Trayvon did nothing wrong. They were just two kids digging on each other and talking on the phone. O’Mara needs to be run straight out of the business.

      • kimmi says:

        Not sure if someone posted this yet…
        LLMPapa is such a talented Trayvon Warrior!

  31. Trina Cosbie says:

    So RZ is a classical singer eh?? Now we know why he courts the media every chance he gets. I wonder if one of his jobs he may be about to lose, is spokesman for his family?!?!…lol

    • “Classical singer” as in singing Motley Crue in the shower?

      What is his employment history?

      • ay2z says:

        Poked around to see the other day, and found nothing. Not to say there isn’t some youtube recital somewhere.

        He’s probably quick to blame some non-hispanic-white-peruvian mix person, for all that ails him in his music career.

        Let’s see him stand up against the likes of world class Lawrence Brownlee, an amazing voice. A black man, who is limited by his colour for roles as romantic leads, he knows that, but he says he doesn’t worry about what he can’t control, just focuses on what he can.

        Browlnlee originally wanted to be a lawyer. Later he was rejected by Julliard.

        Video and article about him. Video for the ballgame at the Nationals park.

        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/11/AR2009091103835.html

        There’s a classical singer.

      • Trina Cosbie says:

        Classical singer of “Bullshit”, as in (singing) sittin on the toilet…sittin on the toilet,,,,,lol

        • racerrodig says:

          He’s so stupid he couldn’t pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel……speaking of toilets.

          And just think…..his brother has all those followers of the same ilk. Of course Fogen did say RZ jr was “worthless” and that’s on record.

          What bunch of fruitcakes.

      • Mary Davis says:

        @ Mountainmanpat. Wasn’t it mentioned somewhere that Jr. was a lawyer? I guess just another lie.

        • racerrodig says:

          Yes, as a matter of fact the Zidiots were touting that Jr was a lawyer. There is an RZ jr on the internet that is a lawyer but not this RZ jr.

          Who the hell would hire these guys ????? Taaffe ??? What, as a racist janitor ? And Joe “Rent a Friend” Oliver claims he quit his job to support Fogen?????

          Where do they come from……and why are they breathing our air ?

          • fauxmccoy says:

            racer says

            And Joe “Rent a Friend” Oliver claims he quit his job to support Fogen?????

            Where do they come from……and why are they breathing our air?

            sadly, i know where joe oliver comes from and it is my neck of the woods in california. i have stated this before, but he was a disgraced tv news reporter for a sacramento station who caused quite a problem for himself and his job over a libel case that he lost (google it, it is easy to find). somehow, he did manage to get a gig on CNN after leaving california, but for the life of me, i do not know how.

            i recognized him when he first emerged on this case and could not believe my eyes. nor ears for that matter, when he tried to put forth the notion that “fu**n’ goons” is a ‘term of affection’. i did not need to see lawrence o’donnell take him down, because i already knew under which rock he had slithered, for me, that was just a bonus round.

            even before o’donnell, charles blow and jonathon capehart took him down a few pegs, i knew that he was using this situation to try to weasel himself a new media gig.

      • racerrodig says:

        If he’s a Classical Singer…….I’m Alice Cooper.

        • Xena says:

          There is a classical singer named Robert Zimmerman, a tenor, who mainly has performed in New York. It’s not Junior.

          Junior claims that he received threats on his job that compelled him to resign. Since no one seems to know where he lived, what type of work he did, nor where he worked, Junior is either lying about receiving threats, or the threats were from his own brother.

          Factually, had Junior not put his face before television cameras, the public would have no idea what he looks like.

    • Jun says:

      There’s only one talented singer who is Robert Zimmerman, and that is the person that is Bob Dylan

      Fogen Jr. on other hand is a classical singer and sings classic Hitler songs such as

      “I may be gay, but I hate blacks too”

      “Afro Peruvian Non Racist Revolution”

      “Blacks Might Be Risky”

      “Trayvon 2.0”

      “Lib-Bee-Roll Mee-dee-yah”

      “I hate Crump & Natalie Jackson”

      “Victim Of Vicious Assault”

      “Fogen, I will help hide your money and passport”

      “You were not there, I was not there”

      “Please Piers, put me on your show”

      “Insincere Apologies”

      “It’s not called Incest Molestation, it’s called playing doctor”

    • Malisha says:

      Where’s his singing on YouTube? Most classical singers of his generation would have something up. Or is he hesitating before singing “Mea culpa, mea culpa, meus frater maxima culpa!”? 😈 [Forgive my Latin; it’s been years since Auxilium Latinum and I’m not Roman Catholic]

    • ladystclaire says:

      @racer, and I’m Whitney Houston.

      • racerrodig says:

        Like I said before….then I’m Alice Cooper….Lets do a duet.

        I suggest a song called, “Fogen, that lying racist bastard”

  32. ay2z says:

    Remember Bernie’s question to fogen on the stand, whether he recalled sending a text message to someone in which he made some remarks about Trayvon’s father?

    Fogen’s answer was ‘no’.

    Since Bernie was not about to ask a question to which he didn’t know the answer, he likkely knew the answer and had documentation in hand to prove it.

    Could easily be Sr Robert. He seems to be on the offensive with Dee Dee and her parents, and he’s already talked about Tracy in context of conspiracy in this latest letter to fans.

    • elcymoo says:

      ay2z says:
      March 31, 2013 at 1:05 am
      Remember Bernie’s question to fogen on the stand, whether he recalled sending a text message to someone in which he made some remarks about Trayvon’s father?

      Fogen’s answer was ‘no’.

      Since Bernie was not about to ask a question to which he didn’t know the answer, he likkely knew the answer and had documentation in hand to prove it.

      Could easily be Sr Robert. He seems to be on the offensive with Dee Dee and her parents, and he’s already talked about Tracy in context of conspiracy in this latest letter to fans.

      *********************

      Wasn’t that occasion in court when O’Mara requested that certain tweets or emails remain sealed because it/they would be so prejudicial that his client wouldn’t be able to get a fair trial? I think they’re still sealed.

      • Xena says:

        @elcymoo

        Wasn’t that occasion in court when O’Mara requested that certain tweets or emails remain sealed because it/they would be so prejudicial that his client wouldn’t be able to get a fair trial? I think they’re still sealed.

        Yes — he requested that GZ’s phone records be sealed on the basis you state.

    • Malisha says:

      Amazing. Let me think: Would I enter into a conspiracy to prosecute someone who killed my son? um… well… that’s a hard one, give me time… uh… maybe, maybe.

      Let me think: Would I enter into a conspiracy to prosecute someone who first shot my son in the heart with a hollowpoint bullet and THEN said that my son, who was never violent or hostile, made a vicious “savage” unprovoked attack upon him and threatened to kill him? Um… well that one, I think, YES!

      So, there is probably a big and terrible conspiracy to prosecute Fogen. YAY!!! The common word for such a conspiracy is “law.” It has also been referred to as part of the “social contract” that we all enter into in order to live together. I guess I’d enter into it if the circumstances demanded that, yeah.

  33. Mary Davis says:

    @ SearchingMind. I think your post from the other thread should be passed around, but only with your permission.

    • SearchingMind says:

      Thanks Mary. You do have my permission. Feel free to correct the following: (a) “scared cows” is wrong. I meant “sacred cows”. (b) obvious typos.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        meant to tell you at the time how much i appreciated your post there, searchingmind – the ones on this article as well.

      • Mary Davis says:

        @ SearchingMind. I knew what you meant when you wrote it. I will correct. Thanks for sharing.

  34. Mary Davis says:

    @ SearchingMind. From the other thread. Your post on Bernie: a true gate keeper was off the chain. It was long but much too short. I actually hung onto every word. So true on everything you said. I think your post deserves a post of it’s own from the professor.

  35. ay2z says:

    I don’t recommend visiting that site, the only thing I removed and replaced with three dots, was unimportant about guessing about this conspiracy stuff.

    • I went and read it……Now Z sr. and Gladys (happy butt) are in financial straights?……21 years in the military would give him a retirement income…….A magistrate of the state of Virginia may have also given him a retirement benefit…..and then social security.

      He says he was an “enlisted man”….was he an officer?…or a non com?

      Does anyone know his actual age?…….as a Vietnam vet……depending on his years incountry it would seem that all of the fogen children were “late in life babies”, as he and gladass were married in ’78

      He still talks about fogen mentoring Black children……yet I have seen no proof of this…..even mentioning the program that was closed yet fogen still continued to mentor…..Or was this more BS from fogen?

      Was Dad invited to the “graduation” party?

      They could afford mortgages on 2 homes….Do they still own both?…if so sell one and get your own damn cash.

      Yeah…..in this family the apple surely doesn’t fall too far from the tree…..Everyone in the family trying to make money off of fogens actions…..

      The saddest part?…….I see no mention of the life fogen took

      • Jun says:

        Fogen Sr. never enlisted

        He just flew to Vietnam one day and attacked a bunch of Viets while yelling “You damn Chinese are stealing all our jobs”

        Thats what he means by “enlisted”

        Just to let you know

      • blushedbrown says:

        @MMP

        I will have to dig on some information regarding mitary record…

        But dates of birth are:

        robert zimmerman
        va
        6/13/47
        gladys meza
        peru
        1/24/51

      • looneydoone says:

        MountainManPat,
        Mamacita z also has a pension from the State of VA (20 yrs=40-60% of her average salary at time of retirement) and perhaps SS as well

      • looneydoone says:

        MMP,
        My hunch is 30 years USArmy, not 20
        1969-1999 USArmy…much of it at the Pentagon and stateside
        2000-2006 State of VA Magistrate

        • He states the 21 years in his bio…….even 21 years gets a noncom half pay…..don’t know if officers get more….

          Blushed came up with his birth date in 1947,,,,,,so any time in the service before ’67 would pretty much leave out college before..

          They did have a program during that war called OCS “Officers Candidate School”….2 years of college and you could enter the program….and in 3 short months be a 2nd Lt. as they were in short supply….So….what rank did he attain?

          And to be a magistrate would require law school…….when & where?

          • onlyiamunitron says:

            “And to be a magistrate would require law school…”

            Not for the position he held at the time he held it.

            unitron

      • looneydoone says:

        MountainManPat,
        Not that I believe the parents bios, BUT if we was indeed born in 1947 and enlisted in 1969 his age when he joined the USArmy would have been 22..that indicates he *may* have been in the OTS program.

        PS
        the official bios state gladys & robert sr met in Jan 1975 and married 11 months later, in Dec(Sr age 28, gladys age 24) . Remember, there are 4 z children
        eldest daughter name, DOB and biological parents unknown
        jr…born 1981 ( after 6 yrs marriage & gladys age 30)
        fogen…born 1983 (gladys age 32)
        grace c…born 1986 (gladys age 35)

        where does the eldest daughter/half sister fit into this ? and was she born prior to their Dec 1975 marriage ? or after ?

      • Let’s not forget that he and Wolfinger both served in the same company at or around the same time and are from the same area of upbringing. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT NEEDS FURTHER INVESTIGATING to possibly determine why GZ was considered free from being charged or “the good guy” before any investigation had even taken place. The SPD got the word from somewhere that he was not to be handled roughly or charged… Not because they had no evidence to dispute his account (His own jabberwaky-type statements filled with omissions, contradictions, and impossibilities were enough to charge IMO), but because SOMEONE gave orders for some reason that very night to let him go.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          diary — you stated

          Let’s not forget that he and Wolfinger both served in the same company at or around the same time and are from the same area of upbringing.

          do you have a source for this? i have tried to track down a confirmation on this for some time. i have heard many posters here and at huffpost make this claim and i know where the claim originated. what i have never seen is any independent verification.

          i once believed it true, based on the confidence i once had on the person who made the claim. i have put some serious effort into research and can find no source. if you do have one, i would love to see it. if we cannot find a source for this info, i think we have to treat it as ‘alleged’ info and not fact.

  36. ay2z says:

    New and improved robert and gladys dot com, Thought I’d save you the torment of going there in person,

    Sorry if it’s been posted before. Apples don’t fall from that tree.

    March 25, 2013
    Thank you for visiting. I sincerely apologize for issues with this homepage.
    I hired an individual to create and host this homepage. Unfortunately, the individual was not as ‘expert’ as he claimed. Further, although I paid for hosting, that service was only provided intermittently.
    Hopefully, all issues have been resolved.
    I continue to be greatly frustrated with information disseminated concerning George and the events of 26 February, 2012.
    Almost one year ago, Benjamin Crump and Tracy Martin mysteriously ‘discovered’ a supposed key witness. The individual was described as a ’16 year old minor child’, allegedly on the phone with Trayvon Martin on the evening of 26 February. According to Mr. Crump, this ‘child’ was so severely traumatized she was taken to the hospital by her mother, where she reportedly ‘spent the night’. Further, Mr. Crump repeatedly stated, because this individual was a ‘minor’, he had received permission from her parents to speak to her.
    Information reportedly received from this ‘minor child’ was used by Ms. Corey’s office in their malicious and untruthful Affidavit supporting George being charged with second degree murder.
    Recently, Ms. Corey’s office advised the court that there actually were no medical records available – the tale about this young traumatized minor being taken to the hospital by her mother was apparently simply a lie. Further, this individual, continually stated by Mr. Crump and his associates to be young traumatized minor, is now apparently, and very mysteriously, a 19 year old lady.
    I remain confused. How did Mr. Crump initially know this individual’s age was 16?(as opposed to 15 or 17)  Why did this individual’s parents portray her as a ‘minor’, reportedly giving Mr. Crump permission to speak to their minor daughter? Additionally, when Mr. Crump continually repeated in the media false information concerning the parents involvement, why did they not immediately contact the media correcting this misinformation? Are the parents complicit in the dissemination of completely false information contributing to George being charged with murder?
    … Unfortunately, the mainstream media has continually disseminated false and misleading information, without researching or challenging the information’s source.
    Robert Zimmerman

    • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

      Oh puke…

    • ay2z says:

      ‘Senio Z’ is showing a streak of something…. accusing the parents of Dee Dee being complicit in arranging with Ms. Corey, what he calls a ‘malicious’ prosecution of poor George?

      • ay2z says:

        SEnio, ah well, sometimes no matter how hard you try, that keyboard won’t cooperate! ‘Sr’, just should have abbreviated it!

      • Jun says:

        Last time I checked, the state did not include her statements about the wake and the hospital or somewhere issue because it is not material to the case, so what is that dumb ass redneck clamoring about now?

      • gbrbsb says:

        If you were looking for the “eñe” as in Señor here are three as I have a keyboard Español.

      • ay2z says:

        How did you know!!?? I wasn’t but thought I should be after seeing the mess it turned out to be. Thanks!

      • Malisha says:

        Remember, his “malicious prosecution” petition to the White House was a miserable failure. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

    • ay2z says:

      Let George get in the box, father Zimmerman, and let him tell his story, and let it stand against challenges. Take the immunity hearing and be done!

    • Jun says:

      False, kind of like his alleged attack of the broken nose and sidewalk headbashing?

      False, kind of like the testimony of absolutely 100% George?

      What about all of the defendant’s lies? According to his logic, Fogen’s claim of self defense is also false because he was lying too about his bond application information

      Angela Corey used the fact that she was on the phone with Trayvon when this happened, and that is proven fact

      Everything else is irrelevant and moot

      • ay2z says:

        What was it that prof said ages ago, about the importance of the individual who was on the phone with Trayvon that night? Doesn’t matter who she is, what the relationship was, could have been the Boston Pizza delivery person, doesn’t matter, or something to that effect.

        Senior is alleging a conspiracy against his poor son by a group of black people. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if Dee Dee turned out to be Hispanic Peruvian and White mix??!!

      • Malisha says:

        Remember, Serino wanted to charge Fogen with Murder-2 before he even KNEW there was a phone call between Trayvon and someone else on 2/26/2012 after 7 pm. BEFORE he had any idea about the phone call, he wanted to charge Fogen with Murder-2. Based on OTHER EVIDENCE. And he was the only officer in the SPD who was a homicide detective.

    • ay2z says:

      One post, and how many people are to blame for one thing or another?

      1. The individual who claimed to be an ‘expert’ in webpages but was not and took Sr’s money
      2. Benjamin Crump (of course)
      3. Tracy Martin (of course)
      4. Witness 8 (of course)
      5 and 6.Witness 8’s parents (new to the list, but of course)
      7. Ms. Corey (double double of course)
      8. Mainstream media (well except maybe sometimes ore often than not OS)

      • Jun says:

        Tinfoil Hats on sale LMAO

        It’s typical redneck crap

        1) Blaming the lib-ee-roll meeddi-uh

        2) Blaming the blacks and the middle eastern Corey

        3) Blaming the black girl on the phone

        Fogen stalked and terrorized and murdered a kid… not really difficult to see why he was charged… if they would take off their bias, then they probably would be able to defend the case

      • ay2z says:

        Sounds like Robert and Gladys took peoples money and then didn’t keep up their webpage, so had to make excuses for disappearing from view. Maybe the webpage was pulled offline when bills to create it were not paid.

        Is Sr up to his date with Bernie/

      • ay2z says:

        strange that it was all the mainstream US media who were pushing the “false narrative that DD (Witness 8) lied in Zimmerman case” The title of the article by Prof posted
        Wednesday, March 6, 2013

        Maybe Sr. read the prof’s article and had to chime in with his opposite view.

      • vickie s. votaw says:

        A fool & his money are soon parted, or something like that. Z’s disregard for his fellow humans is the root of all his problems. Hey, I just remembered something my mom used to tell me, ignore the ignorant, for what it is worth. Hoodies up

      • kimmi says:

        This was a response I received on another blog when I made a post regarding the recent petition to recuse Judge Nelson.

        All credit should be given to the respondant(s),
        I’m just sharing because I thougth it was hilarious 🙂

        EVERYONE WHO’S OUT TO GET ZIMMERMAN

        1. His cousin who claims he molested her for a decade
        2. His mother (turned off her electricity)
        3. His ex-fiance
        4. His ex-fiance’s dog (bit him)
        5. His motion sensor (called police because it signaled him)
        6. Black kids in hoodies
        7. Mexicans
        8. The cop he assaulted in 2005
        9. His Muslim former co-worker
        10.His former employers
        11.Civil Court who he owes $10K
        12.Konstantine Pantas (lawyer he stiffed when he sued his employer)
        13.Former landlord who evicted him
        14.The woman he threw
        15.His credit card companies
        16.His neighbor’s dog
        17.Former roommate
        18.Whoever stole a bike from his porch
        19.Neighborhood kids playing in street
        20.Drivers who give him road rage
        21.Former SPD Chief Brian Tooley
        22.Gremlins who want to steal his ergonomic chair
        23.Vendor he stiffed at the clubhouse
        24.Effing coons
        25.A-holes who always get away
        26.Trayvon Martin
        27.Hal Uhrig and Craig Sonner
        28.MSM
        29.The New Black Panthers
        30.Congressional Black Caucus
        31.DeeDee
        32.Tracy Martin
        33.Sybrina Fulton
        34.Benjamin Crump
        35.President Obama
        36.Attorney General Holder
        37.Seminole State College
        38.MSNBC’s audio editors
        39.Lawrence O’Donnell
        40.Al Sharpton
        41.Jesse Jackson
        42.Gov. Scott
        43.Estranged family members
        44.Investigator Serino
        45.Angela Corey
        46.Bernie de la Rionda
        47.Judge Lester
        48.NBC News
        49.AIS Security (bodyguards)
        5.DOJ
        51. Judge Nelson

        Notice Trayvon is only in the MIDDLE of the list.

        Kimmi added:
        *Disclaimer-this is only a partial list…
        Natalie Jackson…Trayvon sites/bloggers…

        Another blogger added:
        Dorris Singleton…George’s 2 dogs…the Twin Lakes landlord…
        good grief the list is growing…

    • Nef05 says:

      Oh, for pete’s sake. DeeDee’s parents are now in on the conspiracy? Her PARENTS???

      I have a ton of cuss words in my head, right now, regarding the willfully asinine thought process this family exhibits at all levels. However, I will refrain from posting them and instead go make a nice hot cup of relaxing chamomile tea.

      HAPPY EASTER, EVERYONE!

    • Jun says:

      Fogen Sr, really broke the case, Johnson

    • cielo62 says:

      Ay2z- thanks for posting that. Papa Zim is a snake. As you said, the fruit doesn’t fall far from the tree. Gotta wonder though; was Knox his website “expert”? 😉

      Sent from my iPod

      • kllypyn says:

        He ought to tell hius murdering lying son to take responsibility for what he did instead of continuing to lie about what happened, But as usual no one in that family takes responsibility for anything they do. That’s why he’s in trouble now he thought mommy and daddy and his buddies at the police department would fix things for him like they always have. they didn’t count on Trayvon’s parent’s putting up a fuss because they thought Trayvon was some hood rat no one cared about.People did care about him his parents grand parents cousins uncles aunts people in his neighborhood people at his school. He apparently was very special to them.They were even more heart broken when they heard his last screams.

    • racerrodig says:

      Once a shit head, always a shit head. The 1st thing he does is blast someone…..The 1st thing he does is tell the world his expert is not an expert. The murderer is nor a murderer….the racists are not racists……

    • Tzar says:

      I remain confused.

      indeed…

  37. ChrisNY~Laurie says:

    Does Fogen have access to all info that Mom and West have? He is supposedly very involved in his defense and I assume since, this is his case and they are actually working for him, he can see everything they have. So, if MOM and West had w8’s address and other info Fogen would too.
    She is a protected witness. No further explain action needed.

    • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

      That was supposed to be “explaination”. I’m using my phone tonight and it just types whatever it wants most of the time. Lol

    • Nef05 says:

      Because O’Mara made a specific point of including that info, previously, I would say “yes”. I agree that is yet another good reason to have kept W8’s ID info quiet.

      In fact, that was the first reason that crossed my mind when I read this article. While I can only speculate, it seemed to me having put that in writing became “plausible deniability” should W8’s info “somehow” get leaked. It wouldn’t be the first time O’Mara has thrown his client under the bus. Remember those comments about his client’s damaged credibility with the court, after the revoked bond?

  38. Jun says:

    If you look at Fogen, Fogen Jr, and his gang members or as Bernie puts it, the Fogen Minions, they all act like Hitler, except they replaced Jews with Blacks

    For example, Fogen Jr’s claim that all black teenagers are baby killers is a form of blood libel, and he reused Hitler’s version regarding Jews and replaced it with Blacks

    The fear of blacks getting too much power, is also similar to Hitler speeches, where they blamed their problems on Jews, but the Fogens blame it on blacks

    I think the only major difference is Hitler actually was smarter than the Fogens

    • Trained Observer says:

      Most anybody ranks as smarter than Fogen, a Seminole community college flunking dropout who helped stage his own graduation party.

    • Malisha says:

      Another difference is that Hitler rose to power by screaming about the Jews and THEN killed them; Fogen killed an African American kid and then expected to rise to power by having his brother scream about African Americans. They got their PR techniques all assbackwards. Dumb Izans!!!! 🙄

  39. fauxmccoy says:

    hippity hopping along the trail.

  40. Trained Observer says:

    How about a variation on Dr. Phil … the kid who went out for candy and came home dead, thanks to his scumbag brother?

  41. elcymoo says:

    When I was following some of the tweets on rzjr’s stream the other night, I ran across one where he mentioned that it looked like he might be losing another job or the possibility of one, with ‘music’ in parantheses.

    Today, I noticed this in a recent article:

    snip>
    Zimmerman, a classical singer who said his music has taken a back seat to his role as a spokesperson for his family, said he wants the media to stop accepting the “massaged and controlled” image of Martin and start digging into the teen’s life the way they examined his brother’s. A year after the shooting, Zimmerman believes we now have “new context” about Martin – what he calls “Trayvon Martin 2.0” – and that the media should stop depicting the teen as “a child walking home eating Skittles.”

    snip>

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57576548-504083/trayvon-martin-case-robert-zimmerman-jr-says-tweeted-image-meant-to-show-trayvon-martin-2.0/

    • Xena says:

      @elcymoo

      When I was following some of the tweets on rzjr’s stream the other night, I ran across one where he mentioned that it looked like he might be losing another job or the possibility of one, with ‘music’ in parantheses.

      That was what he said happened last year. He is now reminiscing about life before and after he came on television and opened his mouth, advocating for his brother.

      Re: Trayvon’s photos. As I was researching the Dooley case, the media consistently repeated how David James’ daughter saw her father die. She was 8 years old when Dooley shot and killed James. The photos shown by the media were of James holding his daughter when she was an infant.

      Dooley was convicted of manslaughter.

      Does Junior have a problem with the way James’ daughter was depicted by the media as an 8 year old, but shown as an infant? Does he believe that Dooley was wrongfully convicted because of that photo? Or does he believe Dooley was rightfully convicted because of the evidence? Junior needs to come off his use of double-standards.

      • Xena says:

        @ks

        Bingo! Further, that the w9 allegations got out at all is due to MOM’s incompetence as he failed to file the proper paperwork in time and it was released as per Fla’s discovery laws and process.

        Indeed! It almost seems as though O’Mara wanted Witness 9’s statements made public, subjecting her to Zidiot attacks.

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “It almost seems as though O’Mara wanted Witness 9′s statements made public…”

          Yeah, remember how the prosecution fought to keep it all private and the defense tried to force them to reveal it?

          Oh, wait.

          unitron

          • Xena says:

            @Unitron. The prosecution and defense objected to the release of that interview. It was O’Mara who dropped the ball, failing to file for Witness 9’s statement to be sealed.

          • onlyiamunitron says:

            “The prosecution and defense objected to the release of that interview.”

            I’m having trouble finding any mention of the prosecution initially objecting, but did find information that after Judge Lester’s ruling on a Friday, the defense asked the prosecution to hold off from releasing until their motion to have Lester removed was heard, but the prosecution released it the next Monday anyway.

            unitron

          • Xena says:

            @Unitron. Let me make sure I understand you. You purportedly know that O’Mara should have filed something to prevent the release of Witness 9’s statement, but you ask stupid questions articulated to hold the prosecution at fault, while saying you are having trouble finding “any mention” of the same information you turn around and say that you have.

            Here’s the situation;
            GZ killed 17 year old, unarmed Trayvon Martin. While saying it was in self-defense, GZ described how he pinned Martin’s arm while he unholstered his gun, aimed, made sure his left hand was out of the way, and fired one bullet into Trayvon’s heart.

            GZ is charged with 2nd degree murder. He is free on bond, awaiting trial.

            Before you ask, “When did GZ say he unholstered his gun?” Or, “When did GZ say he aimed?” Or, “When was GZ charged with 2nd degree murder?” Or, “When did GZ go free on bond?” Or, “Why is the moon made of green cheese?” I will suggest that you are either unfamiliar with the case, want to frustrate, or that you really are stupid.

          • “I’ll take suggestion #2 for $5,000.00 Alex”

          • Xena says:

            @MMPat. You know it takes a lot for me to come to a conclusion that anyone posting here is an intentional distraction. Unitron has given me reason to question his intentions.

          • cielo62 says:

            Xena- he’s a nitpicker.

            Sent from my iPod

          • Xena says:

            @Cielo62. More than a nitpicker based on my observations. His questions posted here are constructed to belittle. He asks questions based on motivations and thoughts that he interjects, most which are designed to paint the person as being non intelligent or speaking solely on emotions. His questions on other blogs do not contain the same interjections.

            There is a certain individual who consistently claims that “Trayvonites” do not believe GZ is innocent because of their/our emotions. Unitron’s interjecting of emotions in his questions causes me to believe that he is tag-teaming with that individual. That individual is obsessed with Leatherman and Crane-Station. He sees this blog as the greatest threat to GZ’s defense.

            What they want is to make visitors think that we are ill-informed, emotional dimwits who follow the professor blindly without thinking for ourselves.

          • cielo62 says:

            Xena- admittedly this is an emotional case but from the beginning this blog has been focused on the real, tangible evidence. Anybody with half a brain can see that. Uni is barking up the wrong tree.

            Sent from my iPod

          • My opinion is uni is playing both sides of the fence for his own entertainment…..Whatever that’s called in cyber speak…

          • racerrodig says:

            It’s called trolling, plain & simple. He can’t even answer a direct question, he merely deflects….which is what all Zidiots do…..so you do the math !!

          • racerrodig says:

            Then I’ll take “Race Baiting, Disingenuous, Internet Trolls” for $5,000.00 Alex

          • Xena says:

            @MMPat. I have a question for Unitron but must wait to post it. I’m multi-tasking now because my son waited until late this afternoon to ask me to cook Resurrection dinner for him tomorrow.

          • racerrodig says:

            Ask a bona fide question….

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

            and here is the answer.

          • onlyiamunitron says:

            “@Unitron. Let me make sure I understand you. You purportedly know that O’Mara should have filed something to prevent the release of Witness 9′s statement, but you ask stupid questions articulated to hold the prosecution at fault, while saying you are having trouble finding “any mention” of the same information you turn around and say that you have.”

            I said I was having trouble finding any information confirming your claim that the prosecution initially objected to the release of the information.

            If you’ve got a link, I’d be most appreciative.

            unitron

          • Xena says:

            @Unitron. Please provide links to support your claims. Certainly, since you’re questioning everyone else on everything they say, I’m sure you will want to support your claims and position.

          • onlyiamunitron says:

            “@Unitron. Please provide links to support your claims.”

            You want me to provide a link to something that proves I was unable to find any mention anywhere else that the prosecution was originally opposed to release of the Witness 9 recordings?

            I suppose I could go back and try to remember the different terms I plugged into Google trying to find it and take screenshots of the results that didn’t show any mention of it and then try to find somewhere to host the screenshots and link to that, but ultimately I’d be trying to prove a negative, which is usually not do-able.

            unitron

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @unitron who says

            You want me to provide a link to something that proves I was unable to find any mention anywhere else that the prosecution was originally opposed to release of the Witness 9 recordings?

            yup … and after that, why don’t you tell us the precise date/time you stopped beating your wife.

          • Did he really stop?……..Or is that just another lie zimbots are spreading?

          • racerrodig says:

            It’s a lie and that’s not the only thing he’s beating.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            yes, this thread has become an homage to someone’s mental masturbation for damn sure.

          • racerrodig says:

            God I love you !!

          • Mark O’Mara was responsible for publicizing W9’s statement accusing the defendant of sexually molesting her for a period of approximately 10 years.

            I hold him responsible because he failed to inform Judge Lester that her two statements concerned different subject matter. The one that accused the defendant and his family of expressing racist beliefs was properly released to the public. The other statement had nothing to do with the Martin case and should not have been released. Judge Lester mistakenly believed both statements concerned racist beliefs.

          • onlyiamunitron says:

            “I hold him responsible because he failed to inform Judge Lester that her two statements concerned different subject matter. The one that accused the defendant and his family of expressing racist beliefs was properly released to the public. The other statement had nothing to do with the Martin case and should not have been released. Judge Lester mistakenly believed both statements concerned racist beliefs.”

            Judge Lester ordered the release of the recording without even bothering to take a few minutes to find out what was on it after the defense filed a motion contending that “The content of this statement is not relevant to the issues of this case, and it would not be admissible in the State’s case in chief.” ?

            That’s hardly comforting.

            unitron

      • elcymoo says:

        Reply
        Xena says:
        March 30, 2013 at 6:14 pm
        @elcymoo

        When I was following some of the tweets on rzjr’s stream the other night, I ran across one where he mentioned that it looked like he might be losing another job or the possibility of one, with ‘music’ in parantheses.

        That was what he said happened last year. He is now reminiscing about life before and after he came on television and opened his mouth, advocating for his brother.

        Re: Trayvon’s photos. As I was researching the Dooley case, the media consistently repeated how David James’ daughter saw her father die. She was 8 years old when Dooley shot and killed James. The photos shown by the media were of James holding his daughter when she was an infant.

        Dooley was convicted of manslaughter.

        Does Junior have a problem with the way James’ daughter was depicted by the media as an 8 year old, but shown as an infant? Does he believe that Dooley was wrongfully convicted because of that photo? Or does he believe Dooley was rightfully convicted because of the evidence? Junior needs to come off his use of double-standards.

        ***@xena:

        RZ Jr. really is employing a double standard of the worst kind. Has anyone ever once seen him refer to how his brother ‘chose to portray himself’ on his old MySpace pages? No interviewer seems to be aware of those facts.

        • Xena says:

          @elcymoo Btw, sorry for not closing the blockquote on the other response.

          RZ Jr. really is employing a double standard of the worst kind. Has anyone ever once seen him refer to how his brother ‘chose to portray himself’ on his old MySpace pages? No interviewer seems to be aware of those facts.

          Junior has talking points. If an interviewer asked how he is doing, he will go to his talking points about liberal media, his family is not racists, his brother was being savagely beaten, etc.

          Junior reminds me of Sarah Palin during the VP debates. Knowing the debate was not appropriate for her talking points, she refused to respect the moderator, looked in the camera and said in certain words that she was not going to answer questions but talk directly to the American people.

          She lost the election for McCain just like Junior is putting nails in his brother’s coffin.

      • Jun says:

        I figured it was fairly obvious by now, Fogen Jr is a double talking racist bigot hypocrite and idiot

        I would be more surprised and compelled if Fogen Jr said something intelligent and thought provoking, while poetic

        But I may as well wit for hell to freeze over

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Thank you, racerrodig. I had the word disingenous on the tip of my tongue during an earlier encounter with unitron today. It’s exactly what he or she does / is.

      • Nef05 says:

        Sorry this is so long. I was just going to post the links from the Media Intervenors” hearing and the subsequent orders, and the reconsideration hearing/orders. But, Fl18th circuit has apparently revamped their website and those documents are no longer attached to the links.

        The prosecution and defense objected to the release of that interview.

        Yes, they did. It was the “Media Intervenors” whose motion won the release of witness #9’s statement. There were a number of issues before the court, that day, regarding information the media wanted released, that the defense and the prosecution both did not want to be released, among them were witness #9’s statement, statements by witnesses who were not publicly identified, hundreds of emails to SPD regarding the case, the 911 calls, and fogen’s phone records, among other things.

        As we know, Judge Lester ruled on all those matters individually, resulting in the seal of fogen’s phone records and the release of witness #9’s statement (anonymously); among the other statements where the witness identification info was also redacted and statements released. A lot of that was forgotten because that is also the hearing in which fogen’s bond was revoked and he was ordered back to jail. So that was the “bombshell” and everything else kind of faded into the background.

        I remember we also discussed, at the time, that O’Mara had missed the deadline to appeal the release of witness #9’s statement and to request an emergency stay of its release pending their decision. He then filed a motion to reconsider. The “Media Intervenors” responded. O’Mara’s motion to reconsider was denied. O’Mara still did not appeal or request a stay. Six days later, Judge Lester’s scathing response to fogen regarding the bond issue was released. Instead of O’Mara going to file an appeal for the denied reconsideration, he waited another 14 days after the denied reconsideration, and filed for the removal of Judge Lester for perceived “bias”. Those were all O’Mara’s decisions.

        The entire time fogen was back in jail from the revocation bond hearing, until after Judge Lester’s smackdown with the one million dollar second bond – Witness 9’s statement was not released, as the prosecution waited for the defense to take the necessary steps to prevent it.

        So it wasn’t just that the O’Mara sent the request to the prosecution to hold witness #9’s statement (which was not sent until concurrent or after it had already been released) until the issue of Judge Lester’s recusal was resolved, but that O’Mara had already missed a viable option to prevent the release and didn’t file for it. There is no way the prosecution could have known through osmosis that the defense was going to file to remove Judge Lester given that they were not informed until, literally, as Witness 9’s was being released per Judge Lester’s order.

        With all that said, and to get back to your original point – the prosecution and defense did object to much of the evidence being released, Witness 9’s statement among them. You’re absolutely right, and if the judge’s orders from that time were still available online, they would reflect exactly that. It was the “Media Intervenors” whose motion gained the release of the statement, not the prosecution. It was then incumbent upon O’Mara, not the prosecution, to take the additional steps necessary that would have prevented it. As we all know, he did not.

    • colin black says:

      This guy is so daft.

      He now wants the m s m or the liberal press to syop refering to TRAYVON as a child walking home with skittles.

      OK JUNIOR how about we refer to him as the child walking home with skittles but never made it because your phyco cop wanna be raceist peice of shit brother murdered him.

      Is that more truthfull for you.
      Its obvious your brother hates you an tou ditto those sentiments.
      And your just useing Trayvons murder to self promote yourself you delude your self into thinking your a celeb.

      But we are not afflicted with your self delusion.
      You think your either sly with this.
      TRAYVON `2 POINT 0 catchphrace.

      Or are you just so stupid you dont see what it signifys.
      We Trayvonites should addopt that an get T Shirts an Buttons made with that legend.
      Trayvon 2.0.

      Stands for those who choose to…2….point the finger at TRAYVON…Have ZERO …..
      Nada nothing zilch ………..

      Thank you junior I know your only on your side.
      But least now you have confirmed in the past week your not on foggagges side.
      An he whom is an enemy of mine enemey is a ?

      • racerrodig says:

        “He now wants the m s m or the liberal press to syop refering to TRAYVON as a child walking home with skittles.

        OK JUNIOR how about we refer to him as the child walking home with skittles but never made it because your phyco cop wanna be raceist peice of shit brother murdered him.”

        Minor Child…..can we add “Minor” since Trayvon was lawfully a Minor.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Ya know, the child walking home with skittles is really a dead issue. It’s really only RZ who keeps that alive.

      • Jun says:

        Sorry Colin, not accurate enough

        You forgot to add, accused child molestor and attempted rapist of his cousin, to the Fogen traits list

    • Jun says:

      Sadly, whether which version we know about Fogen Jr., we all know he is still jerkoff number 1

      whether its 2.0 or 2.3 of Fogen Jr, he’s a jerkoff

      • Speaking of jerkoff……I see fogen doing a lot of that in the near future…….For an extended period……

        • racerrodig says:

          And his 2 watt brother will start talking about that as well…..we’re not jerk offs nor do we, and we’re not racist jerk offs, we’re Afro – Peruvian jerk offs, er, we’re not…….no, wait…

      • Jun says:

        Before each “we are not racist” media tour, 2watts Jr, goes through the online dictionary and thesaurus for all the longest words possible because he feels it makes him sound credible…

        • racerrodig says:

          He may try the long word approach, but somebody had it right the 1st time here saying’s he’s a jerk off….MMP maybe.

          Economy of words.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Jr.0

    • Malisha says:

      Junior is a liar.
      Trayvon Martin never even opened the box of skittles.
      He didn’t eat ANY.
      His blood sugar was under 100 when they ran the tox screens.
      HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!

      Fogen is GUILTY! 👿

      • racerrodig says:

        The next thing Jr will state is besides walking and eating the Skittles, Trayvon was “flicking” them at Fogen….something all thugs are known to do.

    • Unitron, here is the comment from the article when both prosecution and defense wanted to suppress W9’s statements. Not sure if I can post the link, but I will try:

      “De la Rionda also wants to seal two CDs of audio interviews with a witness identified as “W9.” She is the same person who called police anonymously just two days after the killing to say Zimmerman and his family were racists.

      In an interview with the prosecutors who handled the case before the Duval County State Attorney’s office stepped in, W9 made more allegations, the record shows. “The subject matter deals with an allegation made by witness W9 regarding an act committed by Defendant. This material may or may not be relevant or admissible in this case,” de la Rionda wrote.”

      Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/23/2814613/prosecutors-in-george-zimmerman.html#storylink=cpy

      • onlyiamunitron says:

        “Unitron, here is the comment from the article when both prosecution and defense wanted to suppress W9′s statements.”

        Thank you, my Google-Fu wasn’t strong enough to ferret that out.

        I still don’t see how anyone but Judge Lester is responsible for all of the Witness 9 stuff being released, including what her voice sounds like and the closeness of their families, especially since he apparently didn’t even listen to the molestation allegations tape, which both sides indicated might be prejudicial and inadmissible, before releasing it.

        After that it was just a matter of time before persons outside the case figured out who she was.

        unitron

      • It was not the fault of Judge Lester, Unitron. It was the result of outcry by the media, which held Judge Lester to the Sunshine Law. O’Mara should have made the distinction in a timely motion that one of her statements might not have fallen under that rule. It was not Judge Lester’s job to dig through the evidence presented to determine what is and is not admissible. That is the job of counsel to present these matters to the court and make those distinctions. A simple, timely motion on the part of the defense with rationale for excluding the second statement would have been sufficient. Please correct me if I am wrong here.

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          Thanks to Nef05, I’ve learned that all of this was going on while they were trying to deal with the bond revocation, Shellie’s arrest, and the release of all of the jail calls.

          Were they supposed to take time away from all that to protect a prosecution witness from the press while the prosecution didn’t bother to follow up on their original attempt?

          unitron

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        You interjected yourself in this thread with this comment.

        “It almost seems as though O’Mara wanted Witness 9′s statements made public…”

        Yeah, remember how the prosecution fought to keep it all private and the defense tried to force them to reveal it?

        Oh, wait.

        unitron

        Now it has been shown you were wrong, you don’t admit it, you just pretend as if you were discussing another issue.

        Just face it, you don’t give a damn about the case. This is just a forum to act out your racial angst. I am not going along with the ” I am just playing the devils advocate” or the “I am looking for intelligent discussion”. Neither of these statements is true.

        I am not going to call you a troll or a GZ supporter. I am going to call you what you are. You are a bigot.

        • racerrodig says:

          Oh trust me, he’s a trolling racist bigot and is well versed in something I termed last year as a “TZD” that’s Typical Zidiotb Deflection.

  42. dianetrotter says:

    many, many students don’t spell each others names correctly for various reasons. How often do they write each other letters? On social media, they misspell most words … drives me crazy. There are multiple spellings of the same name because mothers like to mess with the spelling. Teens have their own way of communicating .

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Exactly. These kids text, they don’t use each others’ names in letters, they may not even see each others’ names in school the way we did in previous generations . . . W8 may not have been in the same classes, etc. This is another tempest in the defense’s teapot of specious BS.

    • cielo62 says:

      Diane- exactly. Texting language makes me crazy.

      Sent from my iPod

    • type1juve says:

      @dianetrotter

      You are so right. My daughter’s name is Ariel, at age 16 she decided she wanted to spell it “Arielle” because she thought that was cuter. This is what teenagers do, so really, no big deal here.

      • Soulcatcher says:

        My middle name is Dianne (6 letters). Until I was 16 and got a copy of my birth certificate to get my drivers lic, I spelled it Diane (that would be 5 letters). My daughters name is Jenna, and somewhere around 15 or 16, I noticed the mail she recieved was addressed to Jennifer Lopez, (no that is not her last name, nor is she Hispanic) and till this day 12 years later, I still see mail addressed to Jennifer Lopez.

        As far as Dee Dee not spelling his name right, it could be that she has problems with spelling skills. I think we are all aware times are not the same as they were when we grew up, including education. Teachers have to deal with over crowded rooms, resources have been cut, ect. Kids are passed right on thru the system, and graduate high school, way below level in reading, writing, and math. It could be she thought she was spelling it correct, and maybe Trayvon didn’t think it was a big issue and didn’t correct her. What is the big issue, does it really have anything to do with the issue at hand. No.

        If Mom didn’t get what he wanted, he has only himself to blame. He was told many moons ago to depose Dee Dee, and he choose not to. Now that he has, did he get what he wanted, No. Medical records are not passed out to anyone, if he believed the State had them, and he was entitled to them, then he would have them. Sorry Mom, had you did your job, you would have known there were no records, and if there were records and you were entitled to them, had you done your job, they would have been in your hands a long time ago. Suck it up, blame yourself. I know it’s really hard fumbling to make nothing into something, and it isn’t working out for you.

  43. colin black says:

    I M O
    As an impartial observer the greatest liveing American an Father of your nation was not G Washington but Abe Lincon although many from the south will dispute that.

    However he truely unified your country as one.
    Before the Civil Wat America was a loose confederation of States more akin to seperate nations than one unified country.

    After the Civil war all that changed America became the vast strong an feircley proud nation it is today.

    And in the momment of his triumph remeber not only was he fighting a war against the South.
    He also had to fight an election everyone expected him to lose.
    For a chance to run a second term.

    He won the election an the War to unify the North an South an East an West now just America.
    Named after a Welshman b t y Jofhn Amerik whom done the first land surveys for the British Goverment

    So in his momment of Triumph he an his Wife Mary go to watch a play in the theatre.
    Oscar Wildes American Cousins I I R C.

    He and Mary had a 4 man balcony box to themselfs .
    As Genral Grant and his wife were also to be in attendance but made other arrangments at the last mommment.

    J Wilkes Boothe an Actor had planned to shoot both Abe Lincon an Genral Grant an jump on the stage an proclaim.
    The South is avenged wich he proceeded to do but one of his targets escaped.

    Bit like foggage he was brave against an unarmed victim shot in the back of his head.
    The shot rang out Boothe leaped on the stage but whatever he said..
    Was drowned out by his wifes screams.

    He had a mortal head wound an lingered near death for 24 hrs.
    His wife never left his side begging her husband speak but he never did.
    His Funeral was possably the biggest ever held in America an the Shock felt Worlwide.
    Even the reaction of Kenedys assasination is dwarfed by comparrison
    America went into mourning an his body lay in State an was visited by thousands upon thousands of people no official count was taken but its been said a hundred thousand would be a conservitive estimate.

    An after Washington his dody went on a prosssesion back to Springfeild were his body was to be intered.
    Everyone wanted to attend his Funeral his final sevice an burrial.

    Its unknown how many people paid there Respects to this I M O.
    THE GREATEST EVER LIVEING AMERICAN AS WELL AS .
    A great man of any era of any time,
    As one of his Genrals said after his death now we shall apreaciate how great a man he was.
    Now he belongs to the ages.

    Its immpossable to know how many Americans paid there final repects to Abe Lincon.
    But we know a hundred percent for sure one who didnt.
    One whom locked her self away in a darkened room an could not bare to attend any sevices or lieing in state veiwings or the eventuall funeral at a spot he had asked her only 16 months earlyier to ensure his body lie in some such peacefull spot as this.

    His devoted Wife Mary couldnt bare to see her beloved husband in Death,,,,
    So much did she love her Husband his death an loss drove her insane.

  44. Jun says:

    To be honest, I do not even read the Orlando Sentinel, so have no idea about the article

    I do know that even Rene Stutzman admitted the defense’s witness list, is full of useless witness, and have nothing to do with what happened that rainy night

    And to be perfectly honest, Fogen himself admitted to approaching and confronting Trayvon, first by stalking Trayvon with his car, which caused Trayvon to get scared and try to run and get away

    Technically, there was no punches thrown at all, so they can’t say who threw the first punch… the DNA evidence proves this…since there was no DNA transfer whatsoever, Trayvon did not cause any of the minor injuries on Fogen and Fogen could have very well shown up to the crime scene with premade injuries… the EMT noted that his minor superficial cuts had already healed and the bleeding dried up and all he needed to do was clean with soap and water

    All we know is once Fogen caught Trayvon, he would not let the kid go, and jumped on him, causing the victim Trayvon to yell and scream frantically “Get Off” and “help” and Trayvon also squealed in pain

    • Trained Observer says:

      It’s standard stuff for both the State and the Defense to load up witness lists with a bunch of warm bods that never will be called …

  45. gbrbsb says:

    Thank you professor, very clear. I seem to recall you had another post on something relative to this way back when as you note is the most usual the undisclosed prosecution evidence only came to light after trial.

  46. @Professor

    I just tweeted your article. And I’m not finished yet. Whoo Hoo!

  47. kllypyn says:

    Whether dee dee went to trayvon’s funeral is irrelevant anyway. The only thingh relevany nad the defense should know better is the tragic events which cause the funeral to occure in the first place. I’m get really tire of their bull crap.They need to be focusing on the evidence and the fact that their low life bullingt cieny6 kill a 17 year old while he begged for his life. This is really pissing me off.

    • Trained Observer says:

      For all we know she went out and got a memorial tattoo during the funeral … the point is that no matter what she did or didn’t do, no matter where she did or didn’t go, nothing counts other than her asserting under oath that she was on the phone with Trayvon just before and while he was stalked and confronted. When phone and GPS records support her story, as we anticipate, the defense will be hard pressed to offset the damage with jurors.

  48. esentrick says:

    follow

  49. onlyiamunitron says:

    “A major exception to this practice was developed to deal with unusual or exceptional circumstances that warrant delaying the disclosure of exculpatory evidence to the defense until the defense must have it to prepare for a deposition, pretrial hearing or the trial.

    We have that situation in this case due to the well documented need to protect the privacy and safety of W8 (Dee Dee) from harassment and intimidation by the defendant’s supporters.”

    Does this mean that you are out and out accusing O’Mara, West, and those few within their firms who would be privy to this information of being not only willing to disclose it to outside parties for the purpose of witness intimidation, but so hell-bent on doing so that keeping the information from them is the only way to prevent that?

    Or just of being so sloppy and incompetent that the leak would be unavoidable if not intentional, in a case where the supposedly unintentional leaks so far have come from the prosecution?

    unitron

    • ks says:

      Really. Just stop with your usual nonsense. Your loaded “questions” are dubious. The meaning of those two paragraphs is clear.

      • onlyiamunitron says:

        “The meaning of those two paragraphs is clear.”

        I fear they are.

        I was hoping to be mistaken.

        unitron

      • ks says:

        Oh please, you well know the meaning is not contained in your “questions”. Nice job of concern trolling though.

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “As I have already mentioned, the prosecution has legitimate reality-based concerns to protect the privacy and safety of Dee Dee. I refer of course to the concerted effort by the defendant’s supporters to successively intimidate two girls whom they mistakenly believed to be the real Dee Dee.

          Therefore, the delay in disclosing the evidence requested by the defense not only failed to harm the defense, it was reasonable and necessary to protect Dee Dee.”

          If the above does not say that if given the information O’Mara and West will endanger Witness 8 either deliberately or through gross incompetence, than what does it say?

          unitron

      • ks says:

        Again, just stop with the nonsense. The above says what it said.

        “….I refer of course to the concerted effort by the defendant’s supporters to successively intimidate two girls whom they mistakenly believed to be the real Dee Dee.”

        No mention of West or MOM. It’s obvious that FL is referring to the type of folks who doxed those girls.

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “No mention of West or MOM. It’s obvious that FL is referring to the type of folks who doxed those girls.”

          The implication seeming to be that if the information was given to the defense that they would immediately make it public or leak it.

          unitron

      • ks says:

        No. That’s YOUR implication that, despite having no evidence for, you keep pushing. It requires a colossal, and purposeful, misreading of FL’s post to get there though, given your disingenuous and bad faith style of debating, I’m not surprised you are trying to take it there.

      • Xena says:

        @ks. It’s passive-aggressive behavior, IMO. When I think of the subject matter,”The Prosecution did not violate the Brady rule …” and see uniton divert to DeeDee’s letter with speculation, the logical conclusion is that he doesn’t like the subject matter and prefers criticizing the witness for the way she writes.

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “…and see uniton divert to DeeDee’s letter with speculation, the logical conclusion is that he doesn’t like the subject matter and prefers criticizing the witness for the way she writes.”

          Someone else, who seems to me to be quite capable of speaking for, and standing up for, herself brought up the way the letter was being discussed at another web site and I responded to that in a totally separate conversation.

          unitron

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I fail to see the point, or how it would increase my chances of learning anything, to just showing up in both places and saying “me too, me too”.

        unitron

        So, unitron, I can see your point about wanting to discuss, to even want to challenge people to clarify their misperceptions, etc. But you’ve followed this case for quite some time, perhaps even from the beginning. You can’t honestly say you’re on the fence. You can play around with just following the evidence over at TalkLeft even though Jeralyn clearly cherry picks the evidence to support her own designs, but here we’re dealing both with the evidence and the fact that we think it shows Fogen’s responsibility for unlawful homicide at least to the degree of manslaughter or M2.

        So what and who do you support, Unitron?

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “So what and who do you support…”

          The right of society to know that the defendant received a fair trial.

          That has to include a vigorous defense to be seen by all as fair.

          I got interested in this because of the “solving the puzzle and figuring out what really happened” aspect (abetted more than in most cases because of the much greater than usual disclosures) and I’ve never made a secret of that.

          Last spring and early summer this was one of the sites which was good for discussing the various aspects of the case which is why I started reading and posting here.

          unitron

      • groans says:

        @ Unitron, re:

        I was hoping to be mistaken.

        Lucky you! Your hope has come TRUE!!
        Congratulations.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      ” . . .a case where the supposedly unintentional leaks so far have come from the prosecution?”

      Not so, Unitron. The defense or family leaked Fogen’s medical records early on. Someone at SPD leaked the ABC-? videos of Fogen walking out of the police cruiser and into the PD.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I should say, someone at SPD leaked their videos to ABC . . . I’m not checking the network, but I believe that was who aired them first.

      • onlyiamunitron says:

        “The defense or family leaked Fogen’s medical records early on.”

        Unintentionally?

        “Someone at SPD leaked the ABC-? videos of Fogen walking out of the police cruiser and into the PD.”

        Unintentionally?

        unitron

        • cielo62 says:

          Uni- I think the cop shop videos were intentionally leaked. Maybe Serino had a hand in it since he had the most invested at the time.

          Sent from my iPod

      • elcymoo says:

        Two sides to a story says:
        March 30, 2013 at 4:56 pm
        ” . . .a case where the supposedly unintentional leaks so far have come from the prosecution?”

        Not so, Unitron. The defense or family leaked Fogen’s medical records early on. Someone at SPD leaked the ABC-? videos of Fogen walking out of the police cruiser and into the PD.

        ****
        The SPD also leaked details of Trayvon’s school suspensions early on in their non-investigation.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Oh come on, unitron, what nonsense. It’s easy to see how a lowly clerk might accidentally release something when asked to gather the components of a discovery doc and send this out. And it’s easy to see how the prosecution just might deliberately leak something, or perhaps have someone who would secretly do so. You like to play the middle against both ends, stirring it up everywhere, here, at Talk Left, at Diwataman’s, at CTH. I think I’ve defended you enough . . .

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “Oh come on, unitron, what nonsense. It’s easy to see how a lowly clerk might accidentally release something when asked to gather the components of a discovery doc and send this out. And it’s easy to see how the prosecution just might deliberately leak something, or perhaps have someone who would secretly do so.”

          That sounds as much like an argument against allowing the prosecution access to the information as it does one against allowing the defense access to it.

          unitron

      • Two sides to a story says:

        The defense talks to GZ daily, they claim. Perhaps if he’d tell the entire truth from A to Z, Unitron, there wouldn’t be much need for all the rules and customs surrounding discovery.

        Do you really support all the defense whining about stuff they’re supposed to acquire on their own through depositions and doing their homework with FDLE, etc.? It doesn’t appear that they’re lacking anything supposed to be given to them. It does appear that they’re trying to ferret out prosecution strategy, court public opinion, and contaminate the jury pool. I wouldn’t be surprised if we end up seeing some jury tampering by the Fogen family or some followers down the road.

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “I wouldn’t be surprised if we end up seeing some jury tampering by the Fogen family or some followers down the road.”

          But if they aren’t doing it using information given to them by O’Mara or West or their offices, information which they should not be revealing to anyone, then O’Mara and West can no more be held responsible for that than for the weather.

          And that’s what’s at issue here, whether anyone would be endangered by information given to O’Mara and West and not kept safe by them, not whether anyone is endangered by the release of information by other parties over which they had no control.

          unitron

      • Two sides to a story says:

        It’s true that West and OM wouldn’t be directly responsible if some random supporters engage in jury tampering . . . BUT OM has lots of direct communication with several supporters who work the internet for information for him – recall him asking for this. Some have posted about e-mailing him on CTH and Diwataman’s blog because they can’t resist dropping names . .

        SO, if some of those supporters in direct communication happen to be the ones to pull some illegal stunts down the road, I’d say OM is skating on some pretty thin legal ice, just as he was with Fogen revealing in jailhouse calls that he discussed the new flow of donations to his first donation site. Dontcha think?

        The defense isn’t entirely divorced from the minions, and BDLR fired another shot across the bow about it in his new response to the latest defense motion. Who knows, the defense and the minions seem so hellbent at any cost to defend and acquit Fogen that some pretty amazing stuff could happen, IMHO.

    • Bill Taylor says:

      common sense, the info about W9 GOT OUT that is fact…..

      ONLY the defense would leak that info…..NOBODY here obviously can say which person did what exactly and when and lawyers/politicians try to maintain plausible deny-ability, so PROOF will be difficult.

      but they certainly did leak info that caused intimidation of w9.

      and your suggestion as to the reason for not giving them info to protect future witnesses, being only because they cant be trusted? why not just it being the court properly protecting a witness and the information being given in a timely manner to accomplish that while giving the defense time and access when needed?

      • Bill Taylor says:

        also there has been open communication between the defense and the radicals on the internet as mentioned by bdlr, so those that did the intimidating of witness or suspected ones clearly did communication with defense counsel including mom.

      • Xena says:

        @Bill Taylor

        common sense, the info about W9 GOT OUT that is fact…..

        Yes. It was O’Mara who, at a press conference, identified Witness 9 as GZ’s cousin. That is what clued-in Zidiots to dox her and post her personal information on the treeslum.

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “Yes. It was O’Mara who, at a press conference, identified Witness 9 as GZ’s cousin.”

          Did he just come right out with that unprompted, or did someone ask him if Witness 9 (the recordings of whose interviews they tried to have blocked from release by the prosecution, who I guess were sure no one could listen to and figure out who it was) was Zimmmerman’s cousin and he merely, as many contemporaneous news accounts have it, confirmed it?

          unitron

      • ks says:

        @ Xena,

        Bingo! Further, that the w9 allegations got out at all is due to MOM’s incompetence as he failed to file the proper paperwork in time and it was released as per Fla’s discovery laws and process.

      • onlyiamunitron says:

        “common sense, the info about W9 GOT OUT that is fact…..”

        Yeah, if you’re facing a murder charge, you want to be sure your defense attorneys let the whole world know your cousin accused you of being a serial sexual molester.

        /sarcasm

        unitron

      • Bill Taylor says:

        why sarcasm? the information was already KNOWN, her identity was NOT known…..

        the damaging info was already public, again her name didnt need to be released.

        your intent here is becoming clear for others.

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          ” the information was already KNOWN, her identity was NOT known”

          And releasing the interviews with her, something the defense tried to block, wouldn’t give anyone enough information to figure out who she was?

          And the actual audio recordings wouldn’t have revealed enough of the sound of her voice for anyone who knew her to recognize?

          unitron

      • Okay, now IANAL, and he is out on a brief errand, but, the phrase “timely” is not spelled out in a rule or binding authority in the case law, in terms of a due date, or a drop-dead date. That’s the issue. This case is unusual because there is a debate going on prior to trial, where the information has been given, but the defense feels too late. I say unusual, because, for example, in my own case, they NEVER handed it over. I am still, years later, finding stuff that the prosecution hid. Wish we’d had this much sunshine in my case.

        But anyhow, he will be here to answer more clearly.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Bill Taylor, I had it pegged the very first time I read one of it’s comments. this is definitely not someone who wants to see justice for Trayvon. these people are all over the internet spewing hatred and, trying to disrupt peaceful discussions about this case.

      • ladystclaire says:

        I’ve heard that those who did the intimidating of witnesses will be facing charges and, MOM ought to be as well. after all he saw to it that one of his minions put it out there among the treepers. he would have no doubt done the same thing if with a video tape of W-8’s deposition had he been allowed to tape it.

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “…and, MOM ought to be as well. after all he saw to it that one of his minions put it out there…”

          If you have actual evidence of his having done so, I assume you’ve turned it over to the proper authorities?

          unitron

    • There is no implication at all that speaks to O’Mara/West theorized future behavior once they had the information.

      What it does talk about is the timing of the disclosure fitting an exception, and that exception has to do with privacy. And if I read the State’s response, the concern is not with O’Mara/West. They didn’t write the sunshine law. The issue in this instance has been with internet doxers who, even with name redaction, have apparently taken partial information and doxed the wrong person.

      • onlyiamunitron says:

        “What it does talk about is the timing of the disclosure fitting an exception, and that exception has to do with privacy. And if I read the State’s response, the concern is not with O’Mara/West. They didn’t write the sunshine law.”

        So if the state reveals her name and address to the defense, Florida law wil force them to make it public as well?

        “The issue in this instance has been with internet doxers who, even with name redaction, have apparently taken partial information and doxed the wrong person.”

        O’Mara and West were not the first to reveal to the public the name of Trayvon Martin, his city of residence, or where he went to school.

        And if I’m not mistaken they were not the first to make public the nickname which apparently was applied to her by Bernie de la Rionda.

        Armed with those two items, 3rd parties got on the internet and dug up social media stuff, including one or more young ladies whose names or “handles” apparently begin with the letter “D”.

        Short of having had the foresight to reach down Bernie’s throat and rip out his vocal cords as soon as he was assigned to this case, I don’t see how O’Mara and West would have been able to have prevented those 3rd parties from doing what they did, or from reaching whatever correct or incorrect conclusions at which they arrived.

        unitron

        • Let’s see, on Q1, No. Many names are redacted in this case, annnd…

          …O’Mara/West, right. It’s not their fault about the doxing. Unfortunate about that but they didn’t send out a mailing with a directive at all.

          I think we are getting afar from the issue the court will consider here though. She will keep the issue very specific. Was this, or was this not, a violation. She will cite the authority, or whatever, you know something specific along those lines. In other words, I do not see her ruling on ‘what if’ and ‘maybe.’

          Stuff like this makes me glad IANAL!

        • Xena says:

          @Unitron

          Armed with those two items, 3rd parties got on the internet and dug up social media stuff, including one or more young ladies whose names or “handles” apparently begin with the letter “D”.

          No. Armed with the redacted statement to BDLR, Diwataman took a closer look at a part of the first letter for her name, found it to be an “A” and the other Zidiots combed Facebook and Twitter for whatever they could find that referred to “Trayvon” and/or “Slim”. If posted by a girl whose first name begins with “A,” they then looked for location.

          They continue to post those names they assume to be the real name for DeeDee on Diwataman’s blog, now narrowing it down to two names.

          Did you not hear that it was Zidiots who found a tweet about missing “Trayvon” that was sent in January 2012 before Trayvon was killed, and said it was a tweet by DeeDee? If the date didn’t discourage them from spreading their lies, I suppose they now know that the real DeeDee spelled his name differently. That is probably why they are raising hell about it now because it disagrees with their evidence.

          In the same manner, Diawataman manipulated Trayvon’s phone log to get DeeDee’s telephone number. The CTH then went crazy trying to find her address. An admin stepped in and deleted those comments after the FBI was contacted.

          • onlyiamunitron says:

            “Armed with the redacted statement to BDLR…”

            O’Mara and West’s statement?

            unitron

          • Xena says:

            @Unitron. I wrote: “Armed with the redacted statement to BDLR…”

            You responded with a question:

            O’Mara and West’s statement?

            Do you know what BDLR stands for?

          • onlyiamunitron says:

            @Unitron. I wrote: “Armed with the redacted statement to BDLR…”

            You responded with a question:

            O’Mara and West’s statement?

            Do you know what BDLR stands for?

            You said “to BDLR”

            I was wondering WHO made that redacted statement TO Bernie de la Rionda.

            And whether he would have had any opportunity to improve upon the redaction before it went public.

            unitron

          • Xena says:

            @Unitron. You’ve been playing divide and conquer so much lately that you even divide sentences apart from the context just so you can argue. You’re only making yourself look stupid.

          • onlyiamunitron says:

            “…that you even divide sentences apart from the context just so you can argue.”

            With so many redacted statements coming out of this case, is it impossible that I would not immediately know to which one you referred?

            unitron

          • Xena says:

            @Unitron

            With so many redacted statements coming out of this case, is it impossible that I would not immediately know to which one you referred?

            In the Jodi Arias case, when she claimed not knowing what the prosecutor was referring to, he asked her, “What are we talking about?”

          • cielo62 says:

            Xena~ those all sound like very good reasons for not making DeeDee’s information available. Fanatics like the Zidiot Nation don’t care who they hurt.

          • Xena says:

            @Cielo62

            Xena~ those all sound like very good reasons for not making DeeDee’s information available. Fanatics like the Zidiot Nation don’t care who they hurt.

            Zidiots have already called her every demeaning name known to man. They have mocked the way she speaks. Why do they need to know her address, physical identity, real name? To do more of the same? Somewhere there is a psychologist studying Zidiot behavior comparing it to cannibalism.

          • racerrodig says:

            And the ones who mock her the most & the loudest are the ones with flat tires on their houses……just sayin….!

          • Xena says:

            @racerrodig. O’Mara had better start paying attention to his daughter because what he is doing and allows to be done to DeeDee, is subject to visit his own house.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Heck, the Fogenites are still searching for her. They’ve just in the past day or so decided that her first name has six letters and her last name has six letters. I have no doubt that someone in some group of Fogen supporters would dox her if they can figure out who she really is.

      • Bill Taylor says:

        quick question, IANAL = i am not a lawyer?

      • Malisha says:

        This entire flap couldn’t be more irrelevant. (The flap I refer to is the discovery flap that led to the motion for sanctions and the slap-down response.) I have some pretty good educated guesses about the origin of the unfortunate excuse-making misinformation DeeDee gave regarding the funeral/wake/health thing; it is more a product of the intense and unseemly hostility toward individuals (such as DeeDee) who are seen (by the bigot racist proFogenites) as inappropriately blaming Fogen for killing someone they should just agree “needed to be killed” than it is a sign of any personal failing or habitual dishonesty. DeeDee knew she was under attack since her “name” hit the screen. She felt that anything she did or didn’t do was going to be criticized. Having known, loved and worked with kids of all ages for more than 50 years, I can tell you that I can list (but I will not list here) ten good reasons she would have said she went to the hospital when she didn’t — in ADDITION to the reason she may have given at deposition. Reasons that even she might not have known because not every one of us, at age 19, is totally aware of our own motivations. Only a person who has been through analysis for ten years might be able to tease out one reason over others when confronted with something for which we are totally, psychologically, unprepared.

        The flap is a bag of hot air.

        It concerns something that happened long after the act that is, or is not, a murder under Florida law.

        We should really free ourselves from the strange preoccupation that has seized us in this regard. Puh-leeeeeeZZZZZ!

        • I totally agree. Even if TM were on the phone with the devil, I could care less about that. What I would look at is the phone record, because the record shows that TM was on the phone with SOMEBODY. And how do you kill somebody while you are talking on the phone?

          I want those phone records, and I mean all of them dammit!1.

          And all this racist bigotry about TM being a burglar and all…I don’t give a flying fuck if he was. If TM was carrying a sign down the street that said, “I am a burglar,” GZ, strapped with a sidearm, had no business whatsoever doing anything except alerting the police and then keeping his candy ass inside his vehicle.

        • dianetrotter says:

          Based on 20+ years of working with teenagers, I certainly agree with you. I’m sure BDLR has “got this.”

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “I have some pretty good educated guesses about the origin of the unfortunate excuse-making misinformation DeeDee gave regarding the funeral/wake/health thing;… ”

          At the time of the recorded interview with Crump, only his office, the Martin family, and the two guys from ABC even knew of her existence, so her “name” didn’t hit the screen until Crump went public the next day.

          I lean more toward the “wanted to spare Sybrina’s feelings” explanation, which wouldn’t have been any big deal except that there was a homicide investigation going on in which she was not going to be able to avoid becoming entangled.

          unitron

      • Two sides to a story says:

        As a parent of four kids, one of whom is still a teen and a former teacher and summer counselor of teens, I totally agree with Malisha, and Crane and the rest of you. And it doesn’t matter what the hell Trayvon was doing – ya just don’t take someone out for either walking home or suspicion of being up to something no good. No cop has the right to do that and no citizen has the right to do that either.

        Let the flappers flap on – we don’t need to!

      • Malisha says:

        @ Unitron: Here’s the point I was making. DeeDee was a kid and appears to be a particularly unsophisticated kid at that. She is told that she is going to be interviewed about Trayvon Martin and about the conversation she had with him on the day he died. OK, that’s what she is prepared for. She is “unschooled” in the ways of the legalistic world. She gets interviewed. All of a sudden she is being asked questions that do NOT have to do with the phone conversation, that do NOT have to do with the homicide investigation, and that are uncomfortable for her. SHE DOES NOT HAVE AN ATTORNEY there to say, “Objection, irrelevant — don’t answer that.” She gets asked a question and she is uncomfortable so she says something that she thinks will get her past the subject matter — which is, again, beside the point that she was prepared to be interviewed ABOUT. Is her answer true? No. Is it something she felt empowered to say, “I do not want to talk about that” about? NO. Is it something she was told would be the subject of the interview? NO. Is it the result of any act of HERS that she is suddenly being put on the spot about this uncomfortable situation? NO. Is it something she is given a chance to think about and have “informed consent” to speaking about? NO. Is it something she is socially savvy enough to field properly and avoid embarrassment or worse? NO.

        So what? So she says something she should not have said and doesn’t see what it’s all about. So what?

        That it’s part of a homicide investigation? That’s not her fault. She was put in a situation not of her making and put on the spot in a way she couldn’t handle and she flubbed one little thing that is utterly immaterial and about which she should NOT have been questioned in the first place. The fact that the press wanted to crucify HER for that is not the point; the point is that they shouldn’t have and also that her white lie made no difference. It also does not indicate her general honesty or her general forthrightness or her character in any way.

        As I mentioned I can think of ten reasons OTHER THAN THOSE GIVEN that she might have said the wrong thing. None of THEM is anybody’s business either.

        Does the lie “He wasn’t running from fear” make a difference in whether or not Trayvon Martin was murdered? YES. Does the lie “I had to go to the hospital” make a difference in whether or not Trayvon Martin was murdered? NO. I really think Judge Nelson can see the difference between these two events (one of which is pretty much a non-event) and I expect any juror with an I.Q. in the double digits will be able to as well. I certainly hope all of us HERE can.

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “DeeDee was a kid and appears to be a particularly unsophisticated kid at that. ”

          Okay, Witness 8 was blindsided by Crump.

          What does that have to do with withholding information from the defense, or believing that the defense can’t be trusted to keep it confidential?

          unitron

        • racerrodig says:

          Yep……well said !!

      • Malisha says:

        Unitron, NOBODY WITHHELD any information from the defense. Again, slowly: nobody withheld any information from the defense. The judge told them over and over: DEPOSE HER and you’ll find out what there is to find out. Crump did not have “information” that DeeDee did not in fact go to the hospital. BDLR did not have “information” that DeeDee did not in fact go to the hospital. NOBODY HAD that information and nobody WITHHELD that information. The defense had the right to ask DeeDee a question but instead of doing so, they fussed and threw a fit and had a snit and generally acted like the assholes they have proven themselves to BE and they did that because they wanted to create a flap where there was none because they believe there WAS NONE just because Fogen killed a kid!

        They want: “Fogen killed a kid because he wanted to kill that kid” to be a non-issue. So they try to make “DeeDee did not go to the hospital” an issue instead. And nobody WITHHELD that from them. They’re like two-year-olds throwing temper tantrums in spite of the fact that they have been told, “OK if you want that ice cream, TAKE IT.”

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “BDLR did not have “information” that DeeDee did not in fact go to the hospital.”

          Not even from his August, 2012 interview with Witness 8?

          The one for which they seem to have no notes or recording.

          Then how did they know to tell the defense that there were no hospital records?

          unitron

    • Jun says:

      The video and audio leaks of the Fogen police call and the 911 calls were because of Crump’s lawsuit to have them released to the media

      They released w9’s statement because of a court order

      Fogen’s medical records were released as part of discovery

      I do not see any unintentional leaks

      • onlyiamunitron says:

        “I do not see any unintentional leaks”

        Exactly. There have been no unintentional leaks due to incompetence on the part of West and O’Mara.

        So why should anyone assume that if given the name and address of Witness 8 they would suddenly become slipshod about that kind of thing?

        The other alternative is to assert that they would endanger their careers and freedom by disclosing them intentionally.

        unitron

      • ks says:

        You’re begging the issue. Who is assuming that West and MOM would unintentionally leak w8’s info? That’s YOUR construction/argument that you want folks to chase down as you continue to, for whatever reason, divert attention from what was actually said in the post.

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “You’re begging the issue.”

          The issue seems to be whether the defense gets certain information from the prosecution or not and the rationale for denying it to the defense seems to be the danger to Witness 8 if the information becomes public, which seems to suggest a claim that the defense can’t be trusted with the information.

          If the prosecution really believes that they should come right out and say so, so that the defendant can seek other counsel that the prosecution considers trustworthy enough that they don’t have to be hamstrung by having information withheld from them.

          I was initially inquiring if others were saying that the defense couldn’t be trusted with the information due either to incompetence or actual sinister intent.

          unitron

          • Xena says:

            @Unitron.

            The issue seems to be whether the defense gets certain information from the prosecution or not …

            I agree with KS, that you are begging the issue. The prosecution cannot give the defense what it doesn’t have. The prosecution had no hospital records for Witness 8, neither requested it. The defense asked the court to issue a subpoena duces tecum for Witness 8 to provide her hospital record. Apparently, that resulted in contact with the prosecution, who became aware that there is no hospital record and advised the defense. The defense cannot hold the State accountable for the private health information it did not request from the Witness.

          • onlyiamunitron says:

            “The prosecution had no hospital records for Witness 8, neither requested it. The defense asked the court to issue a subpoena duces tecum for Witness 8 to provide her hospital record. Apparently, that resulted in contact with the prosecution, who became aware that there is no hospital record and advised the defense.”

            So from whom, if not the prosecution, did the defense request the records last fall?*

            And if it was from the prosecution, how did the prosecution’s waiting until just the other day to admit that there were no records make Witness 8 any safer?

            unitron

            *”In conclusion, I do not see any prejudice to the defense caused by the delay between the defense request for the hospitalization records last fall and the recent disclosure.”

            Professor Leatherman, in the body of the post

          • Xena says:

            @Unitron. Why did you go over to Diwataman’s blog the other day and post the following?:

            In the 3/6/13 draft notices of the depositions to have been taken on the 13th, 14th, and 15th, we learn that W24 and W10 are the same person, the son of W7.
            Apparently he got listed under two different last names at some point.
            Speaking of names, has anybody ever established for absolute certain if W7 is Brandy or Brandi and Green or Greene?
            ‘Cause I’ve seen all of those at one point or another.
            unitron

            Are you trying to encourage them to disparage Brandy and her son? Maybe do some doxing of them? Mock and denigrate them in hopes that they won’t testify if called?

          • onlyiamunitron says:

            Thank you for clarifying the post to which you referred.

            I didn’t think I’d posted anything else there, or at least not in quite some time, as it seems to have undergone a “theme” change, and doesn’t look the way I remembered, but I wasn’t absolutely certain.

            I searched for myself through the last 8 or 10 or so threads there and didn’t find me except for that one instance.

            I don’t often look at that site and I forget now why I was looking at that thread in the first place.

            Perhaps because some mention of something in it on Talk Left piqued my curiosity.

            Anyway, they seemed to not yet know that Witness 10 and Witness 24 are the same person, so I passed that along, but if I found that out (stumbled across it, actually), then it had to have been public knowledge before that, and not impossible for them to have learned some other way, and any research on Witness 7 or her son would have been done long before my post, so it’s not like I was enabling anything.

            The identity of Witness 7 has been common knowledge for some time now–made public by Judge Lester, if I’m not mistaken–and anyone finding out Witness 7’s identity almost certainly knew it was at her house that Trayvon was staying, and almost certainly knew her own son’s name, as both have been public knowledge almost since the beginning.

            As for the second part, that was actually because I’ve seen Witness 7’s first and last name spelled both of those ways in all the possible combinations and wondered if anyone there knew for certain the correct spellings, so that if I made reference to her in the future I wouldn’t get it wrong.

            Whenever possible I prefer to show people the respect of getting the spelling and pronunciation of their names right, even if only discussing them in the third person with someone else in a situation that would likely never come to their attention.

            Just because they’ll never know, or perhaps even care if they did, of my extension of this courtesy to them does not, in my mind, remove from me the obligation to extend it.

            unitron

          • Xena says:

            @Unitron

            Anyway, they seemed to not yet know that Witness 10 and Witness 24 are the same person, so I passed that along, …

            But you didn’t provide a link to support how you came upon that information, so why should they trust you?

            As for the second part, that was actually because I’ve seen Witness 7′s first and last name spelled both of those ways in all the possible combinations and wondered if anyone there knew for certain the correct spellings, so that if I made reference to her in the future I wouldn’t get it wrong.

            Why would you think that GZ supporters will know the correct spelling of Brandy’s first and last name?

            Whenever possible I prefer to show people the respect of getting the spelling and pronunciation of their names right, even if only discussing them in the third person with someone else in a situation that would likely never come to their attention.

            Okay, but why do you anticipate discussing Brandy?

          • onlyiamunitron says:

            “But you didn’t provide a link to support how you came upon that information, so why should they trust you?”

            I had faith in their ability to locate the “3/6/13 draft notices of the depositions to have been taken on the 13th, 14th, and 15th” all by themselves.

            “Why would you think that GZ supporters will know the correct spelling of Brandy’s first and last name? ”

            Because of their interest in the case?

            If I hadn’t already been posting about the W10/W24 situation, which involves W7 as the mother of the person who got both of those labels applied to him, I wouldn’t have bothered. It was sort of an “as long as I’m in the neighborhood anyway” kind of thing.

            “Okay, but why do you anticipate discussing Brandy?”

            Because she, or perhaps her son or her house, which might be identified by the use of the posssesive form of her name as an adjective, might come up in a discussion of the case?

            unitron

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Some of Fogen’s medical records were leaked early on before the first discovery.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Deliberately, and ostensibly by family or friends trying to prove that if he has minor injuries, then surely he should have been able to shoot Trayvon.

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “…ostensibly by family or friends…”

          In other words, not by O’Mara or West or any of their employees, i.e., the people who supposedly cannot be trusted with the information.

          unitron

      • Jun says:

        Yeah, well why risk it?

        It’s like sleeping with a girl you dont know, without a condom

        You do not have evidence or been shown unintentional leaks or incompetence, but you would still use a condom

        What was leaked was the attacks on the wrong DD’s and w9’s personal info… we do not know if it was Omara or not

        There’s also the eerie conversation on the jailhouse calls of Omara conspiring with the defendant with the money and as well the passport

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “There’s also the eerie conversation on the jailhouse calls of Omara conspiring with the defendant with the money and as well the passport”

          They released audio of a conversation between a lawyer and their client?

          The kind of thing ordinarily considered a privileged conversation?

          And it was one where the lawyer, despite knowing it was being recorded, talked about anything more consequential than the weather outside?

          unitron

      • Jun says:

        Besides, it is written in the rules of evidence they do not have to give out witness’ personal info and the witness gets to object to giving out their personal info due to the propensity of harassment and intimidation and violence

        so…

        Tough luck on Fogen’s part

      • Jun says:

        It is hard not calling Unit Ron a troll

        How has the state prevented information, that the defense is allowed to have?

        The address and other personal information is allowed to be hidden from violent offenders and it is beyond a shadow of a doubt, the defendant stalked and killed a kid

        The witnesses are allowed to object

        and they were even invited to depose w8 themselves and find out from the witness themselves the information they seeked

        the court had no probable cause to grant a subpoena for the defense and last time I checked, it is a murder trial, not the mystery of the hospital records or the age of the witness

        • Xena says:

          @Jun. I also think its odd that Unitron would post to the blog of Diwataman asking questions in effort to get answers that he then brings here in the form of questions.

          • Remember he plays…and I quote “Devils Advocate” ????????

          • racerrodig says:

            So you’re saying he’s an ego driven internet troll ?? No argument here.

          • Xena says:

            @racerrodig. IDK, but it does appear that Unitron takes great time in effort to try making others feel inadequate, when he offers absolutely nothing positive in discussion.

            See, Zidiots have big mouths. They can’t hold water if they believe giving information will cause fear. So, I do hear the agenda of the month. Back in January, it was to complain about comments pertaining to GZ and his family unless they were positive. This included using nicknames for them. We were suppose to be submissive and agree to stop using Fogen and ShelLIE — start calling the accused murderer Mr. Zimmerman — stuff like that.

            February was the month to promote propaganda that the defense had information to get the case dismissed. It was all about promoting DeeDee as a liar and as soon as that was revealed, the State would dismiss the case. Didn’t happen.

            This month, it’s been to criticize everyone who knows anything about evidence. Deflect, confuse, make questions as idiotic as possible so that any visitors will feel that pro justice for Trayvon folks don’t know what we’re talking about.

            In sum, it’s to verbally vandalize the professor’s blog because it’s the most popular and most likely to return in search results when people seek information about the case.

          • racerrodig says:

            Zidiots have big mouths…..Hmmmm, hadn’t noticed !!

          • Odd that the zidiot nation (minions) find themselves in trouble with the law……

            While Team Trayvon has no such issues that I know of?

            HOODIES UP

            JUSTICE FOR TRAYVON

          • racerrodig says:

            Spot on and Hoodies Up !!

          • Check Xena’s blog……..scans of the card are there…

            I’m a bad bad boy… 🙂

          • Xena says:

            Not the blog — the chat.

          • WELL SCUSE ME…..

            now back to my corner 😦

          • Xena says:

            LOL@MMPat. Have a good evening. I’m going back to rattling the pots and pans, hoping to get to bed before the sun comes up.

          • racerrodig says:

            I’m gonna tell…that was mighty suspicious.

          • Xena says:

            @racerrodig

            Zidiots have big mouths…..Hmmmm, hadn’t noticed !!

            LOL!! They are already boasting that as soon as Sundance gets responses to his FOIA requests for Trayvon’s (non existent) custody records, that Sybrina and Tracy will be so embarrassed that they will beg Corey to dismiss the case. They are trying everything other than proving that GZ killed Trayvon in self-defense because effectively, they can’t support that.

          • racerrodig says:

            Trayvon was the “Squeaky Clean” party on this one..and that ain’t about to change. Sundance……I doubt he filed anything.

          • dianetrotter says:

            I assume Uni is playing devil’s advocate to get people to go outside the proverbial box. I first noticed Uni on CTH asking questions that stirred the pot there. Teachers often do this.

          • onlyiamunitron says:

            “I first noticed Uni on CTH asking questions that stirred the pot there. ”

            How long ago was that?

            I have a vague memory of having posted a question there months ago, like maybe last spring or early summer, but if there was anything more recent I honestly don’t remember it, and would be interested to see what I wrote, assuming it was actually me and not the impersonator.

            unitron

          • dianetrotter says:

            It was sometime in late summer. Maybe late August or early September. I don’t remember exactly what was said but I saw at least ten posts by you.

          • onlyiamunitron says:

            “I don’t remember exactly what was said but I saw at least ten posts by you.”

            Wow, my memory’s a lot worse than I thought.

            I”ll have to put on my hazmat suit and my own air supply and go dig in their archives to see if I can find it/them.

            Thanks,

            unitron

          • racerrodig says:

            He said “I have a vague memory…” can we leave it at that, because only he is unitron and we’re all damn glad of it.

            “…vague memory…” “…short term vision…” Need I say more ?

          • racerrodig says:

            What he says and what he does are 2 different things…..he’s not fooling most of us…..he trolls.

          • cielo62 says:

            Diane- yes teachers often do this WHEN there is a lesson objective. I don’t see it here.

            Sent from my iPod

          • fauxmccoy says:

            cielo says

            …yes teachers often do this WHEN there is a lesson objective. I don’t see it here.

            agreed, emphatically so!

        • racerrodig says:

          Lets all stop feeding the troll. Let the silence be deafening.

      • pat deadder says:

        To Unitron Why do you think it is so important for defense to have DeeDee’s address and why doesn’t BDLR have fogen’s address.Why aren’t the crazies doxing fogen’s family.

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “Why do you think it is so important for defense to have DeeDee’s address…”

          I do not know, and don’t know enough about being a lawyer to have any faith in any guess I might make, but if O’Mara and West didn’t think it important it seems odd that they would make so much of the issue, so I’ll take their word for it that it’s an important part of being able to adequately defend their client, something I would think necessary so that society can be assured that he received a fair trial and a just verdict.

          “…and why doesn’t BDLR have fogen’s address.”

          I don’t know if he does or not, but perhaps the proper part of the justice system that keeps track of the whereabouts of defendants out on bail wearing ankle monitors does have that address, and perhaps it’s for BDLR’s own protection that he does not know the address, because any communication from BDLR to the defendant is required to go through the defendant’s lawyer, so this way no one can accuse him of sidestepping that.

          unitron

      • Two sides to a story says:

        How hard is it to understand, Unitron, that much of what the defense has done and continues to do is simply tactics to open the wallets of Fogen supporters and try to influence the public because he has no case?

        Surely you see that. But you enjoy stirring the pot at every blog possible. I notice you’re far more careful at Talk Left. And one of the gang at CTH and Diwataman’s blog.

        Is that called universal trolling?

        • racerrodig says:

          “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29”

          Trolling the universe….and elsewhere.

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “…And one of the gang at CTH…”

          I think I might have asked a question there a number of months ago, but don’t remember anything more recent.

          Unfortunately that picture of Breitbart in armor is something that I can’t unsee, but it’s only one of many reasons for me not to go there except on rare occasions.

          “…and Diwataman’s blog.”

          I’m not sure if one solitary post there (at least in quite some time) really makes me an official part of the gang, especially one that was a bit of information and a question, but containing no expression of opinion.

          “I notice you’re far more careful at Talk Left. ”

          I take it you didn’t research far enough back to find the part where Jeralyn took exception to my having said that George should have stayed in the truck, safe behind the Skittles-proof glass, or several other times when we bumped heads.

          unitron

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        unitron,
        Do you think that gz lied throughout his interview statements?

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Yes, Unitron, I’ve read your posts since May 2012 at TalkLeft. You seem to enjoy stirring the pot one way there and then coming over here and stirring it another. If anyone would care to review Unitron’s comments at TalkLeft, all 786 (not all about GZ) from 5/29/12 through the present are here –
        http://www.talkleft.com/?op=search&offset=730&old_count=50&type=comment_by&section=&string=unitron&count=50&next=Next+Page+%3E%3E

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          ” You seem to enjoy stirring the pot one way there and then coming over here and stirring it another. ”

          I fail to see the point, or how it would increase my chances of learning anything, to just showing up in both places and saying “me too, me too”.

          unitron

        • racerrodig says:

          So unitron lied by saying he left “a few” comments. Like his claim he has a “…vague memory…” Geeeee, that sounds just like Taaffe’s “…I have short term vision…” shit.

          Typical Troll. Thanks for the info….now we all know where we stand.

          • onlyiamunitron says:

            “So unitron lied by saying he left “a few” comments.”

            I never said anything about only leaving a few comments at TalkLeft or the case specific forum there.

            I was speaking about a couple of other sites.

            unitron

      • parrot says:

        Jun said:
        “The address and other personal information is allowed to be hidden from violent offenders and it is beyond a shadow of a doubt, the defendant stalked and killed a kid.”

        It weighs on my mind too, that GZ would have access to her information.

        TM was of NO danger to him, and his eye felt no pity when he snuffed him out as TM begged for his life. So, why would I believe that GZ would PRESERVE the information and safety of W8 who IS dangerous and could put him behind bars until he’s an old man?

        It would be very risky for GZ to leak her information out, but GZ is abysmally stupid.

      • Tzar says:

        I will not entertain the nonsense about O’Mara being deserving of trust with Deedee’s info as he is not “the public” and let me tell you why you don’t need to either.
        Bernie declared in his response that O’Mara et al were taking bad advice from internet trolls, yet he gave no evidence to back this up. We know a few things about Bernie at this point
        -He talks softly but carries a sharp tongue and a big stick (http://dothprotesttoomuch.com/2013/02/14/lets-go-to-the-video-tapes/)
        -He loves to set traps for the defense (same example)
        -He loves to stay 3 steps ahead of the defense (same example)

        my conclusion
        -that taunt about taking bad legal advice is a trap, I advise O’Mara to never demand proof of that claim.
        -Bernie has ironclad evidence that O’Mara is in cahoots with his trolls
        -That proof will be used to keep O’Mara far from Deedee’s data

        in case link above not working
        http://dothprotesttoomuch.com/2013/02/14/lets-go-to-the-video-tapes/

    • aussie says:

      Look at it this way, unitron:

      CTH was boasting days before DeeDee’s deposition that they knew the cameraman who was supposed to be doing the video. You think they’d not try to find out everything they can, to be able to go after her?

      MOM is on that side, too.

      Besides, if you want to keep something really safe, you keep it locked up. You don’t leave the door wide open with a “please don’t enter” sign on it. That only keeps honest people out.

      • SearchingMind says:

        @Aussie

        Excellent point, Aussie. What got me even more infuriated was the possibility that the deposition could have been beamed LIVE into someone’s living room. I do not know if O’Mara was/is just too full of himself and has no idea of how short his arms are and his reach therefore is, or is simply stupid. It’s just astonishing that he went to the deposition with his OWN video crew. And DeeDee was just supposed to sit there and take orders and let him tape her as he wished? I wouldn’t blame Bernie if he had punched O’Mara between the eyes 🙂 .

        @ Unitron

        Whenever there is concrete danger that a witness might be harmed if his/her personal info is made public, that witness is protected with full strength of the law. And without prejudice to the defendant. The KEY WORD here is: ‘danger of harm’, not ‘actual harm’ (because no one is waiting for something to happen to DeeDee first before she is protected). For the ‘danger of harm’ to be ‘concrete’, it’s enough that the ‘danger’ is coming from GZ’s supporters and apologists. It is not required that O’Mara and West themselves are personally involved (because they would be too foolish to be personally involved). The case to be answered in GZ’s case is whether or not GZ acted in self-defense when het killed Trayvon. How is the personal information of DeeDee relevant to that? What could O’Mara possibly find in the personal life of DeeDee that will help him in proving that GZ acted in self-defense? Are you willing to think independently and give your own opinion or will you continue to “take O’Mara’s words at face value” (hint: O’Mara himself claims he needs the info for the purpose of issuing subpoena and studying demography). ?

        IMO, playing the devil’s advocate is a beautiful art. But when its overdone, it loses its value. And I don’t get that you play the devil’s advocate and AT THE SAME TIME to “take O’Mara’s words at face value”. I think that both functions/activities are mutually exclusive, don’t you?

      • onlyiamunitron says:

        “CTH was boasting days before DeeDee’s deposition that they knew the cameraman who was supposed to be doing the video. You think they’d not try to find out everything they can, to be able to go after her?

        MOM is on that side, too.”

        Are you accusing O’Mara of being both unethical and stupid enough to risk his entire career and possible jail time for himself in order to try to throw this one case, or merely of being hideously incompetent?

        As for the videographer, thinking they knew who O’Mara was going to hire and being personally acquainted with them aren’t necessarily the same thing, and were they going to threaten him or her, or can they afford a large enough bribe to make him or her risk the rest of their career and possible jail time?

        unitron

      • Tzar says:

        Are you accusing O’Mara of being both unethical and stupid enough to risk his entire career and possible jail time for himself in order to try to throw this one case, or merely of being hideously incompetent?

        take your pick

    • There IS direct communication between some parties associated with the defense and a few blogs and FB forums. I have actually witnessed and aken screenshots of parties leaving the thread momentarily to email someone associated with the defense and receiving a response within the same screen shot. Phrases like “just wait, something big is coming tomorrow” is typically followed by another Tara Motion or news article. Immediately upon learning that W8 might not be 16 by the defense, all the threads knew of it. The whole video fiasco was discussed way before the motion was filed. I am sorry, but yes! Whether it is interns or O’Mara himself, someone is regularly communicating with GZ Internet sympathizers. Nettles (Annette), Merritt, Mama Carole, and several others have a direct line to the lair. Sad, but true.

      • …and the responses came from O’Mara’s email… The actual address was left out, but the posters are sure to post the exact response to prove it comes from O’Mara. Then, as I indicated, some action follows to confirm the content within the quickly-responsed email.

      • I am in no way suggesting that it is actually O’Mara or even West who is on “speed dial” with these people, but someone knows someone who has access to anything O’Mara receives, plans, and seeks.

        This is not speculation on my part. I have seen it time and time again. I have also seen emails to this address with quick responses of thanks and assurances that the idea or information will be considered.

        Having that kind of connection with someone associated with the defense and then posting the actual emails is both boastful on the part of the poster and telling on the part of the defense team.

        If you have never lurked on the GZ TM Debate Center on Facebook, it’s worth the show. You get more intimate discussion on the case from the defense’s vantage point… although it boasts of being an unbiased page. These are many of the very debaters from the GZ Legal Case FB threads before it was taken down.

        What I would give to be a part of the private group that page page created. I have been told that someone associated with the defense provides much more communication to members in there. Someone who flipped from the other side shared some goings on from in there to some of us who used to post on there.

        This case has taken on an unusual life of its own. Even the defense, as noted in the most recent motion by the prosecution, had to address the doxing that has been occurring. But instead of urging guilty parties to stop with the doxing, the defense publicly blamed the prosecution and the counsel for the deceased for not revealing the true identity of the victim in order to prevent further doxing of the wrong victims. Goodness, if one were to really read that post on the GZ Legal Case page, it reads short of “WFT????”

      • That should be… “WTF????”

      • onlyiamunitron says:

        Have the defense communicated anything to these outsiders which they were not entitled to communicate with them?

        In the case of stuff like Witness 8’s age not being what Crump said, is it known if the defense found out and then disseminated the information, or if whoever told them also told others at the same time?

        unitron

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Yes. I’ve witnessed OM and his supporters talking about e-mails, too. BDLR definitely fired a shot across the bow about it in his recent response.

        Whereas Crump – you can leave him a message, but he doesn’t communicate with anyone who does so that I’ve ever heard. They work so hard to paint him as unethical but if he is, you sure don’t have public evidence of it.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        There were all sorts of similar shenanigans on the GZLC FB page before they took it down. I kept an eye on that daily while it was up.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        PS – I found and outed one branch of a private page associated with OM on FB that spun off of GZLC when someone with half a brain cell posted something that allowed me to find it.

      • A form of the site is still up.. The GZ and TM Debate Center. Same people and connections, just different name. Yes, same posters and same shenanigans.

      • Unitron, many of them knew that Judge Lester was going to be recused well before the public shocker… The day before, the word was out that something big was going to hit.

        As far as the videotaping of W8, no one outside the defense team should have known about that strategy.

        And on a basic level, no one from the defense camp should EVER communicate openly to posters who post their responses in real time on forums, especially if many posters on those forums have proven themselves to harbor racial hatred.

        Come on, Unitron! There is a basic principle at stake here. If I have personally seen these communications about basic issues that might have later been privy to the public, how can I trust that other issues with greater stakes are not disclosed?

        What I have personally witnessed is seriously unethical. O’Mara knew this when he closed his FB thread, but someone connected to him has continued the relationship. No matter how many different devils one might advocate for in this respect, there is a serious unethical stench associated with these mysterious relationships.

        And again, I take serious issue with O’Mara’s posted response to the doxing of the wrong W8s. What is your take on his blaming those associated with the prosecution and the deceased rather than admonishing those participating in the doxing?

        • racerrodig says:

          Remember all tron wants, and he posted it today, is that this be fair “TO THE DEFENDANT” Not a search for the truth, not real justice, tron boy wants it fair to one person and one only …..his hero Fogen.

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “…many of them knew that Judge Lester was going to be recused well before the public shocker…”

          Perhaps they had a source at the court which made the decision to remove him.

          Once that court told the prosecution and the defense what the ruling was, why wouldn’t it be considered public knowledge?

          “As far as the videotaping of W8, no one outside the defense team should have known about that strategy.”

          They notified the prosecution of their intent a week in advance. Could the information have come from the prosecution?

          As for the rest, I’ve followed the case, but not 24/7, and I haven’t sought out each and every web site that ever mentioned it, so I haven’t seen a lot of that to which you refer.

          Have there been any prosecution motions to have the defense censored or punished for revealing stuff they shouldn’t?

          Specifically concerning “O’Mara’s posted response to the doxing of the wrong W8s”, is that on the gzlegal site? I don’t think I saw it at the time it came out.

          unitron

      • Unitron, you took care to offer a rebuttal to everything I posted except for my direct question to you in the final paragraph of my post.

      • The entirety of that particular post was in BDLR’s last response.

      • We feel a responsibility to make a public, affirmative stance against any and all incidents of cyber attacks or “doxing” to anyone associated with this case, any one suspected as being associated with this case, or to anyone who contributes to the conversation about this case.

        We have heard that some witnesses, or possible witnesses, and supporters on both sides of this case have been the victims of cyber attacks or doxing (the act of publishing personal documents about the individual on the Internet). With a case of such intense scrutiny, we are in uncharted waters regarding how the case is discussed publicly, and the online accessibility of individuals associated with the case. As the defense team, we have taken a well-documented proactive stance on how we manage our digital media presence. Our policy regarding digital media makes us particularly aware of the online conversation regarding our case, and we attempt to adjust our online presence as we see the need.

        We first became aware of these concerns while we hosted the George Zimmerman Legal Case page on Facebook. Part of the reason we discontinued our presence on Facebook was because we were uncomfortable being in any way associated with people engaged in such practices and we refused to provide a platform where this practice could take place.

        We understand that there may have been such actions directed at individuals who may be associated with Witness #8. In an October 19 hearing, the defense team requested a Subpoena Duces Tecum for the social media accounts of Witness #8; however, we intentionally did not disclose her name or any possible Twitter handle out of respect for her privacy. (We still have not been informed of her Twitter handles). If there is an individual who has been mistaken as Witness #8, and if this individual has been subjected to these practices, then we feel that those who knew Witness #8’s identity and therefore her Twitter handle, such as the State Attorneys Office or the handlers of the Martin family, have had many specific opportunities through social media or press conferences to publicly correct the misrepresentations and end the concerns — an opportunity they have yet to take. We implore them to do so now, to minimize any further damage. If they know the Twitter handles are of a person unrelated to the case, why has this not been publicized?

        We are taking this opportunity to say that we do not condone or encourage such practices; and anyone who wishes to make a beneficial contribution to this case must know that they do a considerable disservice if they engage in such practices, and we unequivocally condemn the practices mentioned above.”

        The above is from the GZLC site. I misspoke earlier. It was another post of O’mar’s that was quoted in the most recent response.

        • manberk says:

          Why would anyone publicly correct information that should not be public and put more people at risk? I think Jr writes some of those letters. They are all so whiny and irresponsible.

      • I agree, Man, and anxiously await Unitron’s take on this very issue.

      • I wanted to know if you personally found any part of it to be inappropriate, Unitron.

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “I wanted to know if you personally found any part of it to be inappropriate…”

          I’m sensing from your fervor to get me to comment that you feel there’s some big ol’ “Gotcha” in there somewhere.

          Maybe I’m just not seeing what it really is, but the only thing I can think it would be is if you think it’s actually a good thing for the prosecution to remain silent while those young ladies who have been incorrectly identified as Witness 8 continue to suffer that because they serve as decoys or something.

          unitron

          • fauxmccoy says:

            unitron says

            Maybe I’m just not seeing what it really is, but the only thing I can think it would be is if you think it’s actually a good thing for the prosecution to remain silent while those young ladies who have been incorrectly identified as Witness 8 continue to suffer that because they serve as decoys or something.

            so basically you are saying ‘do what the defense wants before someone else gets hurt’.

            nice, buddy, real nice. before you try to step this one back, you have made similar claims before. i’ll hold you to this concept.

      • manberk says:

        I remember on more than one occasion Bernie warned MOM about the misinformation he was spreading about this witness. Just because MOM laid the blame for his racist cult being stupid on the prosecution, doesnt make it so. They did nothing wrong. The D did everything wrong including waiving those tweets in court calling them evidence, reinforcing with the base they were right and just. They weren’t, they were boarder line criminal.

      • There is no big “gotcha” as you put it, Unitron. One of my original posts, which you felt the need to respond to, indicated what I found unusual and inappropriate about the post:

        “…but instead of urging guilty parties to stop with the doxing, the defense publicly blamed the prosecution and the counsel for the deceased for not revealing the true identity of the victim in order to prevent further doxing of the wrong victims.”

        Man also alluded to my concern. I simply wanted to know your take on it. I do not consider this a debate page, but a blog dedicated toward justice for Trayvon.

        When people wish to post on this forum, they are not always looking to be questioned mercilessly about their points of view. But when you are asked about your take on a subject that might paint O’Mara in a less-than-favorable light, you respond in a strangely surly manner to a poster who has always been more than respectful to all posters on this site.

        On the other hand, many of your rebuttals defend GZ sympathizers’ perspectives.

        I have seen your posts elsewhere and on this forum since the early days of this case. Initially, your posts seemed objective with strong leanings toward seeking justice in this case. Now, I do not know what to make of your posts. Not that what I think means anything.

        • racerrodig says:

          In one of his posts today he stated his concern is that this is fair to THE DEFENDANT. That alone shows his position. He’ll never get it……..never.

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          If some of the “doxers” say that Witness 8 is person A, and some say she is person B, and the prosecution and Crump know that in actuality person C is Witness 8, all they have to say is “We know who Witness 8 is and you know that we know, and we’re telling you that neither person A or person B is Witness 8. Leave them alone.”

          There is no requirement for them to say “You’re all wrong, because Witness 8 is person C”, and O’Mara never asked them to deal with the matter in that fashion.

          The people who know, and are known to know, Witness 8’s identity just have to say “Y’all have got the wrong girls. Knock it off and leave them alone.”

          unitron

      • But Unitron, that is exactly what occurred. It was told to O’Mara who felt the need to write about it on his page.

        But that is not what O’Mara is suggesting. He suggests that since Person A and Person B are victims of doxing by his clients’ supporters, and prosecution and the victim’s counsel know that these are both not the real Person C, they should reveal who the real Person C is in order to put an end to the doxing… I guess so that the real Person C can become the proper victim of the intended doxing.

        Please read his post more carefully.

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “He suggests that since Person A and Person B are victims of doxing by his clients’ supporters, and prosecution and the victim’s counsel know that these are both not the real Person C, they should reveal who the real Person C is in order to put an end to the doxing…”

          He does not.

          No where on that entire page does he say that they should reveal anything about Witness 8 other than to say that the other girls are not her.

          Maybe he felt those who know Witness 8’s identity were smart enough to figure out on their own that they could say “those other girls are not her” without revealing who she is, and didn’t think he had to spell it out for them step by step.

          unitron

    • PiranhaMom says:

      @Unitron,

      Right now I’d like to go for “all of the above.”

      Keep in mind that any slip, no matter how unintentional, can and likely would cause serious risk to DeeDee.

      The Zimbots’ intent is to scare her away from testifying – or scare her into going mute on the stand.

      Now I know you’re going to ask me, “PMom, how do you know this to a certainty?”

      Right?

      Because I”M MAD AS HELL AND I’M NOT GOING TO TAKE ANY MORE OF THIS HARASSMENT AND MALIGNMENT OF DEEDEE!

      Good enough for ya’?

      If not, a learned young savant recently wrote:

      “O’Mara, West, and those few within their firms … would be privy to this information … being not only willing to disclose it to outside parties for the purpose of witness intimidation … so hell-bent on doing so that keeping the information from them is the only way to prevent that.”

      Geez, Uni, I wish I’d said that!

      I’m dumbstruck with admiration ….

  50. Xena says:

    Finally, the responses by the two reporters for the Orlando Sentinel and the national media to BDLR’s response to the defendant’s frivolous motions demonstrated that they have not yet grasped the facts in this case and the simple truth that the defendant has no defense.

    They should understand that the defendant has no defense by his legal team’s abandonment of an immunity hearing.

    The media gets one-side of things — O’Mara’s side, because the State is not trying the case in the media and is not going to give statements to the media.

    • ks says:

      Yep and in the OS reporters case, it’s an example of “hit dogs barking”. Notice how they just focused on the “tone” of BDLR’s response and stayed far away from the meat of what he wrote except to try and cherrypick it? Too funny.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      B-bu-but-but-but, everyone knows that black 17-year-olds are all thugs who deserve what’s coming to them . . . : /

      • Xena says:

        @Two sides

        B-bu-but-but-but, everyone knows that black 17-year-olds are all thugs who deserve what’s coming to them . . . : /

        But only males. They have a serious problem with Black males.

      • Trained Observer says:

        ‘Cause they mightB risky!

        This entire run-up to trial has been absurd, almost entirely because of defense antics in an effort to distract from their client’s guilt. With April Fool’s day just around the corner, more nonsense seems inevitable.

    • They’re trying to get the police off the hook for their actions. They’re propaganda merchants who’s only wish is to sell the side of the story that supports law enforcement. If they could detach and sell GZ down the river and make the SPD look like angels in this case, they would take that road.

    • Tzar says:

      Can we start a petition that if O’Mara or any other lawyer wants to go on tv and say that the prosecution has a weak case then they must explain why there has yet to be an immunity hearing or why has one been abandoned. To me this is too glaring a contradiction that a legally trained professional adult would say that in public without clarifying or that he would not be taken to task for it.

      • racerrodig says:

        Moron O’ Mara…..I said it first wayyyyyyy back in May and I stick by it. Apology to the Professor. Nothing else needs to be said.

      • Xena says:

        @Tzar.

        Can we start a petition that if O’Mara or any other lawyer wants to go on tv and say that the prosecution has a weak case then they must explain why there has yet to be an immunity hearing or why has one been abandoned.

        Why waste our time? O’Mara needs to shut-up, PERIOD. Intelligent people already know that if immunity is granted by the court, it prevents GZ from going to trial.

        But we have O’Mara, West, Junior and Zidiots belly aching about “wrongful prosecution,” “Black agenda,” “political pressures,” while the law provides GZ opportunity to avoid it all and prove that he is immune from prosecution by holding an immunity hearing. O’Mara has chosen not to, which speaks volumes about his belief in GZ’s guilt.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          The word making the rounds of the Florida prison system is “There’s soon to be another innocent man coming to join us, let’s get ready to welcome Fogen!”

  51. BTW, has anyone seen a current witness/expert list from the prosecution yet?

    • PYorck says:

      No, but the defense motion for an extension of the deadline has been granted. It seems that the prosecution won’t file before the new deadline (whenever that may be).

      • Thank you, and is there a medical expert witness listed for the defense in the 130? Not sure, but I don’t think there is one. I am talking about someone with some actual credentials, LOL!

        • PYorck says:

          No, not counting law enforcement I haven’t seen any experts at all. Because it is a bit hard to believe that they will go with zero I assume that the motion for the extension is about experts in particular.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Doesn’t it seem as if the defense thinks their case is so airtight that they can skate without experts on the witness list? Methinks they’re about as smart as all the Romney supporters who were SO CERTAIN of his victory in the 2012 presidential elections.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        But you could be right, Yorck. They could come to their senses and add some for the new deadline, no?

  52. Other claim going around is that DeeDee is the prosecution’s main witness, and this is just wrong, IMO. I think the most important witnesses will be experts: phone records experts and maybe even more important, medical experts.

    More important though, seems to me, the most important prosecution witness might be Zimmerman himself and his constant, non-stop changing stories and lies.

    • crazy1946 says:

      Mz. Crane_Station: Actually if one were to think about it for a moment, it would become apparent that Fogen is the prosecution’s main witness! Do they actually need anymore to be said after entering his words into the record? All MOM is attempting to do is muddy the water of the jury pool to prevent a jury being selected that would possibly convict his poor little innocent racist client!

    • PYorck says:

      It was pretty interesting what BdlR considered undisputed in his response and that O’Mara did not feel the need to dispute any it in his response to that. I think it is safe to say that the defense would not just take DeeDee’s word for it.

      So now it looks as if she didn’t actually contribute so much that is truly unique at all.

    • @Crane

      They’re now claiming no way DeeDee used certain words in her letter. One idiot is asking why is the letter so short, why does it only address a few points? Why is the “a” looped this way? Wah Wah Wah… I mean it’s unbelievable. I swear I’ve never seen such astounding ignorance in my entire life.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @SG2, X2 and, have these people always been this ignorant or did they just get that way because of this one case?

      • I saw the mocking, condescending criticism of the letter, at a site other than TCTH that I won’t name. I thought it was inappropriate and over the top, coming from a criminal defense attorney that many people respect. Unbelievable, I was shocked, is it really necessary to do such a thing, on the internet?

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          Are you saying that the mocking, condescending criticism of the letter came from the criminal defense attorney him or her self?

          Or was is just in comments posted by readers of the site?

          unitron

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “I saw the mocking, condescending criticism of the letter…”

          And just so I’m clear, the letter to which you refer is the one from Witness 8 to Sybrina Fulton?

          unitron

          • Yes, it thanked another reader for transcribing it, when it was perfectly readable, kept putting quote marks around the word letter, as if Witness 8 was so challenged she could not call it a letter like the rest of the passing public who dashes notes off to people, and then it criticized the author for misspelling T’s name. The spelling may be anything at all, most likely it is a spelling that the author had used since childhood.

            I found the whole thing unnecessarily mocking.

          • onlyiamunitron says:

            Most letters begin with a salutation, since they are intended for, and written to, someone, or some group, in particular.

            The document in question does not.

            (and the “Thank You” sign-off is rather curious under the circumstances and in the context of the body of the document)

            So perhaps it’s not a letter specifically destined for Sybrina Fulton, but merely a written statement that came into her possession.

            There seems to be nothing in it that indicates that Witness 8 knew or did not know that it was specifically intended for Trayvon’s mother.

            Further, the misspelling of the name is curious considering how long Witness 8 is supposed to have known him.

            Perhaps it was dictated to someone else unfamiliar with the spelling of his name.

            Regardless, there was nothing along the lines of “Boy is that girl stupid, she can’t even spell”, just curiosity at such an unlikely misspelling .

            Perhaps you have perceived offense where none was intended.

            unitron

          • Xena says:

            DeeDee spelled Trayvon’s name like she pronounces it. I get the same with Xena — some people spell it “Zena.”

          • A buddies of mines mothers name was Zena….apparently it’s a biblical name…..But then so is Gomer 😐

          • Xena says:

            @MMPat. 🙂

          • onlyiamunitron says:

            “DeeDee spelled Trayvon’s name like she pronounces it. ”

            I’ve heard the way she pronounces it, with both the “e” and the “y”, as though it were spelled “tray”. She does not pronounce it with the “eh” sound that you get in, for instance, Trevor.

            Since we have no other exemplars of her handwriting, we don’t know if she actually wrote it, or if someone else took down her words.

            But in the extensive period of their acquaintanceship, it seems she’d have seen his name written out a time or three.

            Which makes the misspelling curious and noteworthy, although not necessarily a mistake on her part if she were dictating to someone else who was doing the actual writing.

            Even if we knew for a fact that she wrote it herself, and even if Trayvon’s name had been spelled correctly, and even if we knew for a fact that it was intended as a letter to Sybrina all along, the mere existence of it is curious, given that the two of them spoke in person that day.

            unitron

          • Xena says:

            @Unitron. Yada, yada, yada.

          • onlyiamunitron says:

            So are you saying that in all those years of knowing him she never saw it spelled correctly, or that she misspelled it anyway despite having done so?

            The former seems unlikely.

            The latter would raise the question of just who it is who is mocking her.

            unitron

          • Xena says:

            @Unitron

            ….So are you saying

            This is what I said; “Yada, yada, yada.” Any further questions?

          • It doesn’t matter if Dee Dee composed and wrote the statement or she dictated it to someone else who wrote it out longhand. Either way, she has identified it as her statement.

            Don’t forget that her written statement is inadmissible hearsay. She is going to have to rely on her memory and tell the jury what happened. If her memory is fuzzy, she can review her statement to refresh her recollection.

            If any portion of her testimony conflicts with something she said in her written or oral statements, the defense can impeach her during cross examination with her prior inconsistent statement.

            As the ultimate fact finder, the jury gets to decide whether some portion or all of her testimony is credible.

            The jury literally has the power to decide whether to believe everything she says, nothing she says or some combination of the two.

          • Oh it is entirely possible that that was my perception. The site didn’t go so far as to spell it out. I respect what you are saying and disagree on that point, not a big deal.

            Also disagree here:

            “Further, the misspelling of the name is curious considering how long Witness 8 is supposed to have known him.
            Perhaps it was dictated to someone else unfamiliar with the spelling of his name.”

            Are you saying that Witness 8 has no knowledge at all about the note, and that someone made it up, or are you suggesting something different? Not sure, and…

            …the spelling could mean anything at all. Could be that that is the spelling since childhood, don’t know, and saying for sake of argument that it is not a childhood spelling, so what? What possible devious meaning could it have that is so substantial it helps GZ? If there is one, I am not seeing it. Let’s say the note wasn’t a letter at all, just a note, and it was so sloppy it was unreadable. If such a note was going to be fake and dictated, wouldn’t the person with the unknown agenda want it to be a little more clear?

            Hope I have asked these questions in a clear and direct way, I am asking for your take, not in any way meaning to criticize you!

          • onlyiamunitron says:

            I meant dictated by Witness 8 with someone else actually putting the words on paper.

            I have no reason for thinking it not to be genuine, if not necessarily described by the state as exactly as perhaps it might have been.

            For something that was supposedly a letter TO Sybrina, it seems a bit impersonal.

            If it was more along the lines of an informal affidavit intended FOR Sybrina, perhaps as a follow-up to a conversation between them, that would be different, but would certainly justify referring to it as a “letter” rather than a letter.

            The alternate spelling of the name may be perfectly explainable, but would hardly have been expected by those of us out here in the public outside of Trayvon’s circle of family and friends, so there’s nothing sinister in finding it curious.

            “I am asking for your take, not in any way meaning to criticize you!”

            No worries on that front. Those here who do mean to criticize me never leave me in any doubt that that is exactly what they are doing.

            : – )

            unitron

          • Okay, but why would someone dictate? Why not just have her write it? I can’t think of any reason. Can you?

          • onlyiamunitron says:

            “Okay, but why would someone dictate? Why not just have her write it?”

            That was just a theory as to an explanation for the reason for the alternate spelling of the name.

            I was trying to avoid the conclusion that she didn’t know the proper spelling, or, knowing it, would not use it in something intended to be read by his mother, who probably had a lot to say about him getting the name in the first place.

            I still haven’t figured out any reason for anyone to write it down if it were about to be recorded anyway, and especially not why specifically for Sybrina instead of for her attorney, Benjamin Crump, though obviously there was a reason or it wouldn’t exist.

            unitron

          • Okay, here’s why I put zero meaning into that spelling. My oldest nephew has 4 grown kids. The oldest: 30% of the family calls him Alex, 30% calls him Sascha and 30% change back and forth for no reason. His real name is Aleksander. None of us call him that though, not even his parents. I have only written it one time, for an article! Trust and believe we are a tight-knit family. All of the grown people have college degrees, and many have graduate degrees, so it’s not like we can’t spell! We have versions of endearment.

            So, I am putting zero into that spelling.

        • Xena says:

          BDLR included the letter as an exhibit to support his allegation that DeeDee was afraid of being a witness, and also that the behavior of the defense and their internet trolls has given DeeDee reason to not want to talk to the defense. IMO, the letter should not be used beyond that purpose.

          Of course, it’s the nature of racially bigoted Zidiots to transform Blacks to fit into their racially stereotypical mold in order to mock and denigrate.

      • ks says:

        OMG, stop the presses! The letter wasn’t formally written ( it didn’t contain a salutation) and Trayvon’s name was misspelled and it could have, might have, possibly been dictated by someone else so that means…..it wasn’t “really” a letter which means BDLR calling it a letter is,,,,OMG!!… I see another “Tara Motion” coming…

      • Jun says:

        To be real, w8 is not a literary and calligraphy scholar with perfect handwriting

        She’s just an average teenage girl

        No worries, tomorrow the conspiracy will be that DD is in actuality Pam Grier

      • Two sides to a story says:

        My water delivery guy’s name is Travon.

      • gbrbsb says:

        @Crane station

        “Okay, but why would someone dictate? Why not just have her write it? I can’t think of any reason. Can you?

        Crane if you really think about it there could be several reasons why DD could have needed help with this (dictation, a draft, or whatever), and this does not necessarily mean I think it was the case, albeit I must admit I find the expression “tragic story” not really in keeping with her age.

        The misspelling of Trayvon’s name, as Unitron notes, is at least worthy of the descriptor curious, without that necessarily meaning suspicious. At around 14, to my parents chagrin, I changed the “y” ending my name to an “i”, (we are talking of the mid 60’s when that gesture was considered rebellious!), and although from that time I consistently signed my name with an “i” my parents died 50 years or more later still refusing to accept my choice; “What’s wrong with the name we gave you!” always their ongoing retort.

        In respect of the letter, note, memo, statement, emission, or whatever you want to call it, perhaps Sybrina, Tracey, or Crump wanted to ensure they had something in writing should this very reluctant witness, one who had remained silent since the event, refused to even talk. Or maybe DD’s parents wanted to keep her completely out of the fray and hoped Crump and Trayvon’s family would accept a short “statement” they helped her write in her own words, but in the end either they or DD melted before the serene and melancholic Sybrina, who If you have watched on Phil’s (don’t know surname) you will see how difficult it is to resist her tears come from deep inside the limits of her soul, I for one couldn’t stop crying and actually bawled from when she said “cupcake”. And what if DD is not as literate as the letter implies and needed help to write it in a coherent synoptic way, and even if she were extremely literate, to write of such a traumatic event would be daunting and difficult to the best of us let alone a very sheltered young teen.

      • pat deadder says:

        To SouthernGirl Perhaps that is a letter DeeDee wrote to Trayvon’s Mother after Tracy Martin was able to contact her and she really didn’t want to talk to any lawyers even friendly ones so maybe she thought the note was enough.As far as spelling his name wrong God kids nowadays write in shorthand anyway.Even here I don’t know half of what these acronyms stand for.I don’t read those hateful blogs because I don’t give a rats ass what those ignorant people think because there is nothing anyone can say or do to change their minds.I feel sorry for them they are missing so much in life because of their refusal to accept people different than themselves.I am an old white woman and am richer for not being like them.

      • They also point out that DD spelled Trayvon’s name “Trevon” so she couldn’t possibly be that close to him. I think there’s likely a more reasonable explanation.

      • @Sandi Case Leonardelli

        Folks in my community pronounce and spell my name wrong.

        • cielo62 says:

          SouthernGirl/ try Cielo Perdomo. misspelled, mispronounced and misidentified (I am female in spite of the name ending in an “o”.)

          Sent from my iPod

          • fauxmccoy says:

            when i see your name, i am reminded of my costa rican spanish professor teaching us a folks song she grew up singing (the refrain will sound familiar to most)

            los cielos nos lo dira
            por que solo dios sabra
            lo que sera, sera

            que sera, sera …..

            so your name means ‘heavenly’ to me 🙂 and apologies for the lack of a spanish keyboard, i use the language often enough to make purchasing one a reasonable expense.

          • cielo62 says:

            Faux McCoy- on a standard PC keyboard, there are keys in combination with the Alt key that will get you any Spanish spelling you need, from vowels with accents to the upside down punctuation. I will send you a copy tomorrow of the codes. I don’t have a Spanish keyboard, either but am expected to write correctly online. Hence finding all these codes. BTW I wish I were as nice as my name. What WERE my parents thinking?

            Sent from my iPod

          • fauxmccoy says:

            cielo – your name is just one of the many spanish words that i love. there is the direct, literal translation of ‘sky’ but also the more ethereal non-direct translation i posted above. btw – i think your folks did just fine on the name 🙂 and i would love to be more hip on my spanish language keys, so thanks for the offer. if i bother at all, it is usually a lengthy cut and paste job from some website that does display spanish letters. for the most part, i will assume that what i do type is readable to those of us who are bi-lingual.

          • cielo62 says:

            Faux- at least in Spanish it HAS a gender. In the original Latin, caelum is neuter!

            Sent from my iPod

          • cielo62 says:

            As promised, how to write spanish characters with a standard keyboard:  Diacritic Marks and Characters Alt + 160= á Alt + 0193= Á Alt + 130= é Alt + 144= É Alt + 161= í Alt + 0205=Í Alt + 162= ó Alt + 0211= Ó Alt + 163= ú Alt + 0218= Ú Alt + 129= ü Alt + 154= Ü Alt + 164= ñ Alt + 165= Ñ Alt + 168= ¿ Alt + 173= ¡ Just press the ALT button at the same time as the numbers and the desired letter will appear.   m: Frederick Leatherman Law Blog To: alphamonster@yahoo.com Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 9:08 PM Subject: [New comment] The Prosecution did not violate the Brady rule in Zimmerman case

            fauxmccoy commented: “cielo – your name is just one of the many spanish words that i love. there is the direct, literal translation of ‘sky’ but also the more ethereal non-direct translation i posted above. btw – i think your folks did just fine on the name 🙂 and i would l”

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Or… You could just google for a program call “character map”, there’s usually a copy on your windows computer [sample: É®¼½¿]
            easy!

          • cielo62 says:

            Lonnie~ Yeah, but this is faster. 🙂

          • fauxmccoy says:

            p.s. — i am also reminded of same college spanish professor teaching us the many exceptions to words ending in ‘a’ not necessarily being female. her great example is that one would say ‘los problemas’ en espanol instead of ‘las problemas’. she explained that the easy way to remember this was that men were the root of most problems 🙂

          • cielo62 says:

            LOL!

            Sent from my iPod

      • SearchingMind says:

        @ Unitron, Gbrbsb, Jeralyn Merritt

        Trevon instead of Trayvon. So what?!

        I can’t understand why Jeralyn Merritt and the folks at TCTH are trying with breathtaking desperation to find fault with DeeDee. What get them rattled this time around is the ‘DeeDee-letter’. They have physically placed it underneath a microscope examining the placement of all the comers, the full stops, the dotting to the i’s, the crossing of the t’s, the lengths of the spaces between the words etc. They are dumbfounded that the supposedly dumb DeeDee is as literate as most of them and actually has a very beautiful handwriting. The arguments that the ‘DeeDee-letter’ might not be authentic/genuine are wrong and simply self-defeating.

        If DeeDee dictated the letter to someone who put her words in print, the case cannot be made that DeeDee got her childhood friend’s name “wrong”. DeeDee dictated “Trayvon”. The person dictated to, wrote “Trevon”.

        If DeeDee dictated the letter to Ms. Fulton (Trayvon’s mother) who put her words in print and got the name Trayvon “wrong”, it surely is more likely that Trayvon’s name is spelled as both “Trayvon” and “Trevon” (or maybe Ms. Fulton is NOT Trayvon’s mother, because she got Trayvon’s name “wrong”!).

        If DeeDee dictated the letter to someone who put her words in print, the case cannot be made that the letter is not DeeDee’s. A letter is nothing but ‘thoughts’ conveyed in print. As with “wills”, “testaments”, the author of a letter is ONLY the person in whose mind the thoughts were conceived and from whose mouth those thoughts proceeded forth.

        If DeeDee did write the letter and got Trayvons name “wrong”, that does not negate that DeeDee and Trayvon were childhood friends, the substance of the letter nor anything at all.

        So, what exactly is Ms. Jeralyn Merritt’s point?

      • Malisha says:

        Crane, many people still respect that criminal defense lawyer you mention because of her past work. Like Dershowitz, however, she has degenerated. I can only say “cause unknown” because guessing at the reasons comes pretty close to being unkind. Her take on this, from the beginning, was that EVERYTHING FOGEN SAID IS TO BE ABSOLUTELY BELIEVED AND TAKEN AS UNCONTROVERTIBLE TRUTH. Now how smart is that? The day she can get a judge to go along with a system like that we won’t need all these expensive criminal trials and we can all switch our TV viewing to the Golden Girls.

      • Malisha says:

        When it seemed that Fogen would escape prosecution for his act of killing Trayvon Martin, we did not hear too much in the way of assaultive diatribes against various African American individuals connected with the case. Then, as the scene changed and it looked like the FDLE might bring charges, the theme song of the proFogenites was “Trayvon was a Thug.” Then we got variations on a theme: “Fulton-Martin family are gold-diggers”; “Crump should be disbarred”; “Natalie Jackson is disreputable”; “[fill in the blank with any Black person] is [fill in the blank with any negative characterization.” NONE OF THESE attacks could possibly change the facts of the murder. Remember the outfit in Virginia (NEVER PROSECUTED) that put out targets in the shape of hoodies with skittles and iced tea and that printed right on the targets that Trayvon Martin was a thug? That was so obvious that O’Mara had to go on TV and say it was bad! He said it would make it “hard to try this case.”

        Then we changed targets of the attacks. They ganged up on DeeDee. Why? They call Trayvon Martin’s phone his “alleged cell phone” and they contest that it was HIS. Why? Because the FACT of Trayvon’s having been on the phone with DeeDee during the period of time that the phone inalterably records the call to have taken place — independent of what was actually SAID on that call — the simple FACT that these two teen-agers were ON THE PHONE during the time that they were ON THE PHONE proves beyond cavil that Fogen’s story is a lie.

        That is the reason for the attack, plain and simple.

        Just by chance, a conversation between two despised (by the ProFogenites and their ilk) youths, provable by electronic means that cannot be willed away by any amount of rhetoric or argument, shows that Fogen lied about what took place that night. It nails Fogen; it nails the SPD; it nails the liars who want it to disappear. And it WON’T disappear.

      • Manberk says:

        As I said to the author of the OS who brought the letter into scrutiny, why didnt Crump, Julison and NatJax just rip it up and have her write it again? LOL. I think the fact that its imperfect when it’s supposedly contrived is a lot more telling.

        Yada yada is right. If you have something, some proof, put it out there. But the speculative questions insinuating guilt are rather ridiculous if you cannot back them up with a shred of evidence.

        I am much more interested by the fact that there are no questions about anything she actually said during her depo. All we have is conjecture about assumptions, or …nothing.

        I think letters without salutation are more valuable on the autograph circuit. FYI.

      • SearchingMind says:

        @ Malisha

        “…. Like Dershowitz, however, she has degenerated. I can only say “cause unknown because guessing at the reasons comes pretty close to being unkind…”

        Malisha, I will help you out because you got me laughing hard. Welcome to ‘the lawyers woes’. As I said before, it’s a prestigious profession and can be very fulfilling. But it’s also a very hazardous profession. My boos is about Jeralyn Merritts age and as feisty, but a walking library. You never want to be in her hitting zone. But I noticed that she hides and drinks during the late hours when everyone has left (or so she thinks) soothing and licking the wounds of battles fought over many years of legal practice. Layers (not judges) do pay the ultimate price for keeping our society sane. Suicide rate among lawyers is more than twice as high as the general population (see an article in ABA Journal, Apr 30, 2009, By Debra Cassens Weiss).

      • SearchingMind says:

        “Tara Motion”

        Ks said: “…. I see another “Tara Motion” coming…”

        Excellent, Ks. After “Fogen” we have a new catch-phrase: “Tara Motion”.

        I think that we should henceforth refer to O’Mara’s Motions as “Tara Motions”. As BDLR correctly said, O’Mara has outsourced the defense to “internet trolls”.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          searchingmind says

          I think that we should henceforth refer to O’Mara’s Motions as “Tara Motions”.

          i’ve decided to refer to them all as ‘loco motions’ and do a little dance every time a new one is filed 🙂 you are welcome to join, you just gotta swing your hips now .. 🙂

      • gbrbsb says:

        @SearchingMind

        Unitron, Gbrbsb, Jeralyn Merritt

        I don’t understand your aligning me with Jeralyn Merrit, nor with Unitron who on this thread is repeatedly being called a troll which I cannot agree with. I assume for my comment to crane and my reference to Unitron in that comment… or am I missing something?

        Trevon instead of Trayvon. So what?!

        My view entirely, so but where did I say anything that contradicts this when all I said was:

        The misspelling of Trayvon’s name, as Unitron notes, is at least worthy of the descriptor curious, without that necessarily meaning suspicious.

        And I stand by what I said because if we can’t even agree the “misspelling” is at least CURIOUS, apaga y vámonos, because it is CURIOUS, not sinister, CURIOUS, and I even gave a possible innocent explanation, i.e. my changing the spelling of my name at 14 which only my friends adopted, never my parents.

        I can’t understand why Jeralyn Merritt and the folks at TCTH are trying with breathtaking desperation to find fault with DeeDee.

        I certainly do understand why JM is trying to “find fault” with DD, her blog is DEDICATED BLOG TO ARGUING THE SIDE OF GZ’s DEFENCE! What else would she do? All I have ever put forward, not in this thread, was that IMO whenever there is disfavour-able evidence it it’s no use burying our heads and denying its existence, more useful to deal with it square on and try to work out how to turn it to an advantage without resorting to the absurd.

        If DeeDee dictated the letter to someone who put her words in print, the case cannot be made that DeeDee got her childhood friend’s name “wrong”. DeeDee dictated “Trayvon”. The person dictated to, wrote “Trevon”.

        Again, absolutely agreed, so where did I say differently? As the Professor noted it doesn’t matter whether DD wrote it herself or it was drafted, composed, hand written, or dictated by her or to her by someone else, whether by Crump, Tracey, Sybrina or her aunt in the cochinchina, what matters is that DD freely owned it and signed it.

        If DeeDee dictated the letter to Ms. Fulton (Trayvon’s mother) who put her words in print and got the name Trayvon “wrong”, it surely is more likely that Trayvon’s name is spelled as both “Trayvon” and “Trevon” (or maybe Ms. Fulton is NOT Trayvon’s mother, because she got Trayvon’s name “wrong”!).

        I can’t disagree it could be spelt both ways, but you have completely lost me as I have never once stated a razor’s edge of doubt that Sybrina was Trayvon’s mother nature and nurture. If you are referring to Alicia, no doubt she looked after him many years on visitations with his father while they were still married, and although Trayvon may well have been very fond of her, even continued visiting her after his father separated, and even though she feels “left out” and “pushed aside” since he died now there is no Trayvon to keep alive the tenuous link between her and the rest of the family alive, she was his step-mum and Trayvon tattoed Sybrina’s name not hers.

        If DeeDee dictated the letter to someone who put her words in print, the case cannot be made that the letter is not DeeDee’s. A letter is nothing but ‘thoughts’ conveyed in print. As with “wills”, “testaments”, the author of a letter is ONLY the person in whose mind the thoughts were conceived and from whose mouth those thoughts proceeded forth.

        Again, absolutely agreed, and again where did I say anything else? What is more, I don’t even think it matters if someone helped DD compose the letter, changing “another apartment” for “another complex” for clarity, or even wrote it for her, that’s what a lawyer does to draw up an affidavit, i.e. you relate the events so they can take notes and have it later drawn up in a clear and orderly fashion.

        If DeeDee did write the letter and got Trayvons name “wrong”, that does not negate that DeeDee and Trayvon were childhood friends, the substance of the letter nor anything at all.

        Agreed again, so where have I indicated differently?

        So, what exactly is Ms. Jeralyn Merritt’s point?

        You know the answer… TO TRY TO WEAKEN/DESTROY DD’s CREDIBILITY. She has positioned herself as shadow defence so she ain’t going to roll over and say “I give up”. I don’t understand why anyone is surprised anymore at JM, CTH, DWM nor at the press for what they publish, indeed what surprises me is anyone here is still surprised at such events.

      • groans says:

        @ Xena, re:

        This is what I said; “Yada, yada, yada.” Any further questions?

        ROFLOL!! 😎

    • ladystclaire says:

      Your last paragraph took the words right out of my mouth. Fogen is definitely the prosecutions star witness, which his Hannity interview was the crown jewel for them, in addition to his ever changing stories to LE. did Jr. post another twitter rant that is just like the first one? I’ve read that he did.

  53. blushedbrown says:

    follow

    • blushedbrown says:

      @Prof

      Thank you for your blog, just donated.

      • gbrbsb says:

        I have seen these posts quite often lately so is it obliged to inform when you donate?

        • blushedbrown says:

          @gbrbsb

          No.
          It is just a courtesy. 🙂

          • gbrbsb says:

            Oh ok, if somewhat confused as wouldn’t the other way round be the “courtesy” because I’ve seen posters remind the professor 5 times to confirm their donation? And don’t get me wrong, I ‘m not saying the professor should thank everyone through the blog because I get an email for that as I presume everyone else does which is sufficient, at least for me.

          • cielo62 says:

            Gbrbsb- agree. The email is sufficient notice that it was received and acknowledged. But folks are different, I suppose. And like I said, mentioning it once might remind others to do likewise. 😉

            Sent from my iPod

          • gbrbsb says:

            Ok, that it might remind others is understandable. Thanks Cielo.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @cielo

            But folks are different, I suppose. And like I said, mentioning it once might remind others to do likewise. 😉

            cielo, that is why i do it as i am able to donate. i would not want anyone to feel bad for being unable to do so, but feel strongly that those of us who can, should do so if they value the service provided. i don’t see anything wrong with that.

          • cielo62 says:

            Hi Blushed Brown! Long time no see!

            Sent from my iPod

      • cielo62 says:

        gbrbsb~ not obligatory but maybe an… “inspiration” for others to do likewise. 🙂

  54. Two sides to a story says:

    I’m glad you forgot, Prof, because it makes an excellent second article with focus on this very important topic.

  55. “national media to BDLR’s response to the defendant’s frivolous motions demonstrated that they have not yet grasped the facts in this case and the simple truth that the defendant has no defense.

    Pathetic fail.”

    X2

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