Ohio Juvenile Court finds two boys delinquent in Steubenville sexual assault

Tuesday, March 19, 2013

On Sunday a juvenile court judge in Steubenville, OH found two former members of the high school football team delinquent for sexually assaulting (i.e., digitally penetrating) a drunk, naked and unconscious 16-year-old girl at a drinking party. The judge sentenced one boy to two years confinement and the other boy to one year confinement. Both sentences will be served in juvenile institutions and both defendants will have to register as sex offenders upon release.

This is the case in which the hacker group Anonymous obtained and publicized social media, including photos, videos and text messages regarding the assault after local officials declined to prosecute anyone. In one photo the boys were carrying the naked and unconscious victim by her ankles and wrists. Videos showed them laughing and bragging about the incident. Literally overnight, little known Steubenville caught the nation’s attention. The local prosecutor and judge disqualified themselves from further involvement in the case. A state prosecutor and a judge from another county were appointed to replace them.

Steubenville is an economically depressed steel town of approximately 19,000 people located about 40 miles west of Pittsburgh. Known as the “Big Red,” the high school football team led by its legendary coach for the past 35 years has developed an unrivaled winning tradition that has been a major source of community identity and pride. This case, including the offense and the way it was minimized and covered up by authorities, has shattered that identity exposing a small community’s insecurity and reluctance to hold its heroes accountable for their misconduct and a disturbing willingness to blame the victim for the assault.

On a much smaller scale, this case reminds me of the willful blindness of Joe Paterno and various officials at Penn State University regarding Jerry Sandusky’s predatory sexual molestation of awestruck teenage boys. Both cases remind me of the peculiar human need to create and idolize heroes instead of working on becoming heroes. I am also struck by the immense sense of pride and expectation of special privileges and treatment exhibited by many members of successful athletic teams.

Someone needs to teach these people that their unique genetic gifts and special skills are not a license to disrespect and take advantage of others who are less fortunate.

The people who make up the community of Steubenville need to engage in some serious self-reflection regarding their contribution to this offense in order to prevent something like this from happening in the future. Those two boys likely were encouraged to think of themselves as heroes who were better than the other kids and therefore entitled to special treatment. They could not handle becoming objects of worship and forgot who they were.

The two defendants are fortunate to have been prosecuted in juvenile court where conviction of any crime results in a finding of delinquency. That is, their records will reflect that they were found delinquent, rather than guilty of rape. They also will benefit by serving much less time than would have been the case in adult court. Another significant advantage is that they will be serving their time in a juvenile institution rather than an adult prison where they would be more easily victimized.

An adjudication of delinquency means that the Juvenile Court will retain jurisdiction and probationary supervision over the conduct of these two boys until their respective 18th birthdays, unless the court acts to extend its jurisdiction to age 21. This is a substantially more favorable outcome for them than would have been the case, if they had been prosecuted and convicted in adult court.

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95 Responses to Ohio Juvenile Court finds two boys delinquent in Steubenville sexual assault

  1. SRA says:

    Where were the chaperons? Don’t parents chaperon their kids anymore?

    Professor Leatherman, I appreciate your assessment, but I would like to add something.. I read the tweets that were part of the evidence. To me they are appalling…

    The next day two girls were arrested for threatening the victim after the verdict….

    Meanwhile many of the major news outlets were very sympathetic towards the boys.

    The overall message seemed to me to be….. Nice girls don’t file charges.

    I doubt the town of Steubenville has learned a thing.. and Steubenville isn’t the only town with this sort of culture.

    Just my two cents.

    • chills101 says:

      In my eyes its the way the news report on situation like this. This is a very sad story about KIDS that could have been prevented but unfortunately happened. Fogen is a grown azz man that shouldn’t be compared to these KIDS. Apples n Oranges. We as people all think we got the answers to ever problem. Somehow i blame the culture of Americans. The people that have any power over anything will take advantage of that situation when its convenient and its supposed to be ok. It happens all the time and sum people are just to lazy to do something bout it when these people are caught.

  2. William Walton says:

    What is being forgotten or not wanting to be addressed is that football coachs deeply feel that football teams are the greatest revenue generators for a school. The school can be a high school or a university. I lived next door to a high school football coach and we would argue about football jocks. His comment always was the football team was most important because it generated revenue for the school. Therefore, as part of his job description, he had to cover up for the players regarding grades, conduct, etc. They were most important to having a winning team and thus, bringing revenue for the school. Would leave stating that this was bullshit and he would angerly reply that I was never a football player. Told him I never wanted to be. So, the problem is that we have a society who feels that football is the most important aspect of the universe. We see it in the high schools, universities, and the professional football leagues. Were the two boys wrong in what they did? Definitely Yes! Did they know that what they were doing was wrong? Yes! Did they get sentenced for their crime? I think that they should have received a greater sentence, however, I am not an attorney. I think it will be interesting when the Grand Jury convened by the Ohio AG meets and considers all the evidence. I would think that they should consider the involvement of the High School Head Coach as well as others involved very seriously. Did alcohol come into play? Yes! Should one human being take advantage of another human being who is passed out because of intoxication or date drugs? Definitely NO!

    • Rachael says:

      No, it’s not being forgotten. It’s pretty much what I said just a few posts above. We have to stop this culture where playing a game is more important than humanity.

  3. Malisha says:

    What if a woman with a diamond necklace, three rings each worth $20,000, and a $25,000 watch gets drunk and passes out. Would there be any hesitation prosecuting five men who each helped himself to one of the valuable items of jewelry she left unattended while she was in her non-defensive unconscious posture?

    The problem is not with any accounting of culpability or “contributory negligence.” The problem is, and remains, that a woman is not really considered the sole proprietor of her body, her sex, her personal dignity, her choice, her own preferences and her personal space. These things are naturally considered OWNED by any man. They are only considered “provisionally” owned by women — and that means that the women who may be considered truly owning these possessions must continually qualify and re-qualify for that ownership by GOOD BEHAVIOR and PROPER APPEARANCE in the eyes of any who would seek to take them.

    “She should not have let herself be unconscious/drunk” is somewhat related to saying Trayvon Martin should have (a) gone home faster or (b) politely answered George Zimmerman’s questions. Remember those subtle apologetics?

  4. colin black says:

    If you drink alchchol at gatherings of teens a party .
    One of those facebook shout outs .
    Yea the parents are away everyone come an play.

    One never let your drink out of your sight an or control.
    You go to the bathroom so does your bevrage. can /glass /bottle.
    Otherwise your giveing a predetor or predeters the chance to mickeyfinn/spike your drink.

    Also if you drink into a stupour self inflicted with alchchol.
    End results are uncounsiouness you are doing the drink spikers job for them.
    By rendering your self senseless this is dangerous on so many levels.

    Cant remember your actions or others actions.
    Cant enjoy what you cant remener all those morning after convos .
    An then you did so an so.
    I NEVER ?
    Yup you did an then an then blah blah blah.

    So if your lucky with responsable non drink addled freinds to control an look out for you.
    Theres still the mocking of then theres the puplic urination an throwing up in so an so Dads car ect.

    But if bad people find you in this state its like christmas come early.
    Helpless uncousious the perfect victim an also no memory so its a freebie in every sence to there depraved minds.

    Or maybe not so depraved but young males adolecents in drink an with hornyness courseing through there systems .
    Every wakeing an sleeping moment
    A standing prick has no concience….

    B T W
    This defemation of young women was carried out practicaly every weekend by premier an lower division footballers in the UK.

    It even had a name amongst them .
    Spit Roasting..
    Basicly they would ply young women with drink .
    At the clubs an v i p sections.
    Invite them back to there hotels an the spit roast would commence.

    Even players called up for the English team where filming there exploits on phones .
    An swapping them about with other players an there conqests.

    You can use your own imaginations as I dont want to be graphic.
    Just pointing out the dangers of alchohol as an inhibition lowerer.
    An as a drug capable of rendering people unconsious .
    Or non compus mentis .

  5. Malisha says:

    I was thinking about the two boys being registered sex offenders all their lives and frankly, that doesn’t disturb me. Let’s say one of them is planning on marrying one day and he doesn’t feel like describing this little event to his fiancee. Should she have a way to find out about this? Why shouldn’t she? Would she want to say, “Well that was a youthful indiscretion and he’s not like that any more at all”? OK, if she wanted to say that. At least she would be giving INFORMED CONSENT to link up her whole life with someone who let himself disrespect, degrade, rape, humiliate and physically violate a young woman who had never done him any harm. At least she would be KNOWING that she was giving her children a role model like THAT for a father. Why should she not have the opportunity to really plan out her life with genuine knowledge of how bad it could one day become?

    • lurker says:

      Yes, all of that is true. My problem is in considering whether we have come close to making them unemployable for life. I do not have a good answer in terms of how to handle such reporting–just questions about whether this is the same as a pathological crime of violence carried out by someone older.

      • Malisha says:

        They won’t be unemployable. That myth about allegations of sexual abuse resulting in loss of job, home, family, house, income, blah blah blah — it’s hype to try to make people feel guilty for demanding punishment for sexual assaults. Abusive people are very GOOD at using the “poor me” to get off. Witness the way Fogen used it in the Trayvon Martin murder case. It’s “Abuser Technology 101.”

        Ten percent of adults are abusive; ten percent of employers included in that figure. Not all abusive people are sexual predators or sex offenders, of course, but probably the numbers show that the same number of people in society (proportionally) who are sexual offenders are employers as employees.

      • lurker says:

        Being a registered sex offender IS an automatic barrier to certain types of employment. And while that is right and appropriate in the case of an adult offender, I don’t know that the same glove automatically fits all juvenile offenders. I really just don’t know. However, I believe that registration is not an actual done deal in this case? Pending recommendations from DYS based on performance in treatment etc?

        At some point, I think we are going to have to deal with a huge population that we are creating of (mostly male) school drop-outs who end up incarcerated and on release have VERY few options for a positive life. And guess what happens. The offend again until they are caught again.

      • Rachael says:

        Yes, lurker, it is. Sexual assault and physical assault makes it almost impossible to get any kind of job working with the public.

        I am not in ANY way condoning what those boys did, but look at our culture, look at our society. Why do we have a society where athletes get a pass on everything? I’m sure those boys knew what they were doing was wrong. But the grown men, the “mentors,” have to step in. Parents cannot just accept that a coach has their child’s best interest at hand – they seem to be more interested in having a winning team rather than raising decent men. Look at Sandusky. People knew what he was doing, but no one said anything or made him accountable. The coach here at the UW took the team to the Playboy mansion or was it the Chicken Ranch – I can’t remember, but neither was appropriate.

        It isn’t that the boys should not be held accountable for what they did, because doing so, even as harshly as registered sex offenders for the rest of their lives, might be a start, but the problem is that no matter what people say, we still have this boys-will-be-boys attitude and it MUST stop.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      I guess the question is: can they change?

      • lurker says:

        I agree. And the presumption behind the existence of juvenile court is that juveniles have an enhanced capacity to learn, grow and be molded into capable citizens.

  6. boyd says:

    when I was a student at ASU, a couple of football players I was friends with told me some girl passed out in a room upstairs and they were gangbanging her. They asked me if I wanted in. I was speechless, stayed in my room. I was grossed out. Now today I wonder why I never got help for the girl whomever she was.

  7. boyd says:

    I have a problem with this case.

    #1 In the Military there’s sexaul assault by Officers and Non-commisioned officers and the military is doing nothing about it. Yet these minor will have this hovering over their head for life.

    #2 Being from the city, you learn to avoid the Lions,Tigers and Bears or they’ll get you. I did not get shot, I did not get stabbed growing up in Philly because I avoided the bad boys,bad streets, wrong oart of town. This girl did not do this. Her A-hole detector should have went off “beep beep beep a-hole alert leave now”
    I feel as sorry for her as I do the gazelle who was not paying attention at the watering hole.

    but that’s me I learned at age 7 , watching a gang of teenagers chase my teenage neighbor into his house, only later to see ambulances and never see my teenage neighbor again.. It’s better to PREVENT something bad happening to you.

    • Malisha says:

      But failure to prevent something bad happening is not a crime.

      Doing something bad often is.

      These boys DID DO THE CRIMES.

      Whoever “allowed” them to do the crimes is not responsible for their having made the choice to become criminals. THEY became criminals by their actions; the fact that their victim might have become their victim by her INACTION is not an issue.

      • Doc66 says:

        In OH it is a crime to not intervene.

      • Malisha says:

        Doc66, I meant “inaction” on the part of the victim. She was unconscious, took no action in self-defense.

        Failing to intervene, by a conscious by-stander, is much different from failing to defend, by an unconscious victim.

  8. Jun says:

    the punishment seems light considering the crime

    Not asking for eye for an eye, but they should get more than 2 years

    rape is a traumatic incident for anyone to have happen to them

    • lurker says:

      There is some flexibility as I understand it. The Dept of Youth Services can hold them until age 18, dependent on behavior in lock-up. And this can even be extended to age 21, again dependent on behavior and the recommendation of DYS.

    • Malisha says:

      “And I thought GZ was unremorseful” —

      He was. One of the reasons he was, of course, is that unremorsefulness is common and it is actually respected in a lot of primitive societies, such as ours. “I done what a man got to do and proud of it!” People behave shamelessly because they “don’t shame easy.”

      • lurker says:

        George Zimmerman is unremorseful. The kid who was just sent up for three life sentences, I fear, is not right in the head. I am amazed that he was found competent to stand trial–he has some pretty serious diagnoses. I understand that the criteria for competence have more to do with being able to understand the crime and assist in one’s own defense. But, I’m not wholly certain even that was the case. According to reports this kid (even though tried as an adult) did not allow his attorney to present a defense. I can only hope that in prison he gets some degree of protection from himslef as w3ell as some treatment. He ain’t right.

    • Jun says:

      at least the kid’s honest

      personally I say Fogen is just as evil as this kid

  9. Here’s a link to a post about the case in The Lede, a New York Times blog

  10. Why did 3 kids get immunity and not just one? Hence, four of the five despicable people would at least have a conviction if not more people who are about to be charged. Or if they couldn’t because their case is so weak without the testimony of all three, that makes me suspicious that their involvement may even be more sinister than the convicted two.

    My spidey sense and the Force, the dark side of course, is tingling right now. If I was a woman, I would call it intuition too.

  11. Bill Taylor says:

    i never agreed with that other stuff only entitled to the things that i have earned……very few athletes do that stuff but the bad behavior gets most all of the attention.

    i have observed that other stuff to be very common among those that inherit wealth.

  12. colin black says:

    Bill Taylor
    Indeed most if not all athletes awarded a scholarship to collage work train hard and must excell at there sport.
    To qualify for a scholarship grant ect.
    And of course your entitled to be proud of your acheivements an entitled to your free education .
    Not free but earned by your talent.

    Thats not the type of entitlement I was refering to though.
    Im talking about the entitlement to differnt treatment an rules for some an for others none.
    People that use there notoritey as a school football captain to have in his opinion the pick of the pretty cheer leaders wether they are consious or not.
    Im talking about entitlement to break the law with out worrying about getting arrested .
    You know the type of feeling you have if your a Kenedy or relation of that family.

    • leander22 says:

      There is nothing more ridiculous than cheer leaders, I say that as a female, who would objected to any attempts to be chosen for such a “task.”

  13. cielo62 says:

    >^..^< change is slow but it's coming.

  14. Bill Taylor says:

    about athletes, as one of those that indeed got their college education via scholarships, indeed i felt i was “entitled” to that education because i had WORKED far harder than my peers for many years training my body and learning the skills and movements needed to excel….the word entitled means that a person had PAID the cost of the item and is entitled to it.

    the school made big PROFITS from my and countless others efforts and hard work.

    BTW i was painfully uncoordinated when i first tried sports and know that in my case pure HARD WORK daily is the ONLY reason i accomplished what i did.

    the running alone required to compete i recall vividly and the thought i was being “pampered” never entered my mind!

  15. colin black says:

    I just cannot understand the American ideoligy amongst middle class an higher socio economic groups.
    Im talking not of thugs street kids but the acheivers.

    Some graduate an are plucked to collage on a grant.
    Not for there academics .

    No its there prowness in sport swimming basket ball foot ball .
    Excell at sport an your garanteed almost a scholarship fund or what ever.
    An yes some of thease sports jocks have a huge sence of entitlement.
    And are often pampered an thus enableing them .
    Through creating an envireoment where thease young late teens far from mature people feel superiour an entiled.

    An some not all but some are able to objectify others they consider below them socialy or in the Im cool club.
    An outragious criminal behaviour ensues.

    An Its not confined to the athletes/jocks either.
    Hazeing an thease ridiculous ceromanys to join a Phy Beta blue peter badge / frat house is way way weird an disturbing i m o.
    Especialy when its taken beyond the EXTREME.
    Because its always been extreme hazeing is nothing more than.

    Bullying en masse on young vulnarable Children by spitefull evil individualls.
    Many Youngsters have lost there lifes due to hazeing .
    Everything from alchcohol poising to death by internal hemorageing from beatings sustained by running a gauntlet of fists an kicks.

    It should have been banned years ago but still seems to be considered harmless bonding sisterhood brotherhood yea.
    Even street gangs like the bloods an crips only apply say a three man team on one guy for three minutes an the person is allowed to do there best to defend them selfs.
    A Big no no in hazeing you got to endure an take it no fight back no talk back.

    Hazeing priviliged middle class kids lasts a week.
    Beat in by street trash lasts three mins .
    Wich do you think shows the more compassionate an civilised induction into a club society gang?

  16. bettykath says:

    Mays, 17, who was also found guilty of disseminating a nude photo of a minor, to a minimum of two years in a juvenile correctional facility.

    Richmond, 16, was sentenced to a minimum of one year.

    Ohio Department of Youth services will rule on whether Mays and Richmond will be detained longer, adding it will depend on their behavior and their progress in rehabilitation. Both could remain incarcerated until they are 21.

    Mays and Richmond will be credited for the time they had served before the trial. Their status as registered sex offenders will be determined by the court after their sentences are served, the judge said.

    So they might not be labeled as sex offenders. Their remorse is good to see and is a hopeful sign.

    It’s disgusting to see another police/prosecutor look the other way. Maybe the community will see that making heroes of athletes isn’t such a good thing. Are there no decent people to intervene when this stuff happens in public?

  17. Judy75201 says:

    I would further like to add that, while AG DeWine desperately tried to convey that his community is no different than every other one, and this same thing is happening everywhere, I believe he is wrong. While I agree that this type of behavior by teens is not rare, I don’t believe the average community would circle the wagons around the offenders the way Steubenville did.

    • lurker says:

      I don’t know if EVERY community would do the same, still there are more LIKE Steubenville in that respect than we like to reflect on.

      • Judy75201 says:

        You could be right, but nevertheless AG DeWine needs to stop deflecting and start acting. That so many parents were driving those wagons absolutely appalls and horrifies me.

    • Malisha says:

      I disagree.
      I think most rapists, molesters and sexual predators who are not scuzzy strangers get enormous support in their communities. Their communities want to say, “WE are not like that.”

      • lurker says:

        Excellent point. May also make it easier for those offenders who look like the rest of us–and most do–to offend over and over again before anyone ever suspects, or dares confront the evidence (as happened in the Jerry Sandusky case).

  18. Judy75201 says:

    I’d like to add that Alexandria Goddard, a/k/a @prinniedidit, is the person who shined the beacon that was ultimately seen and acted on by Anonymous. If not for her, Steubenville would have been able to be far more lenient on their *superstars”. She deserves accolades and honors for her tenacity and grit.

    Glad you wrote about this subject.

  19. Tzar says:

    The Penn State debacle was the worst
    I still think that assistant got off light

  20. lurker says:

    I was following a discussion on this case elsewhere and had to leave because it had just gotten too ugly. I am with you Mr. Leatherman in saying that the two young men were lucky to have been tried in juvenile court. And I would hold appropriately so. Not only am I a supporter of the notion that children and teenagers are not developmentally the same as adults and need to be handled differently, but in this case, I don’t think we can overlook the culture that was created for those young people to grow up in.

    There has been a lot of back and forth aobut whether CNN and some other outlets erred in presenting too sympathetic a view at sentencing as the offenders broke into tears. I don’t know that this is an either/or situation. The sight of a child lost–whether to criminal behavior or by being a victim of the same ought to make us as adults pause and think about the kind of world we have made.

    BTW–I also saw the video of the Chardon HS killer at sentencing. Completely chilling, sad, mystifying. What are we to do with such children?

    • Bill Taylor says:

      it is medical fact the teenage human brain is not fully developed, they simply CANT understand the long term implications of the things they do.

      • rayvenwolf says:

        Bill there is not understanding the implications and then there is knowing you will likely get nothing more than a slap on the wrist for your actions. Yes the brain continues to develop until our 20s but teens the age of these two know DAMN WELL what can happen as a result of sexually assaulting someone. These are not babes in the woods who don’t understand the whole “good touch bad touch” scenario or are victims themselves of sexual abuse and have been led to believe such things are ok.

      • lurker says:

        Rayvenwolf–I think it is a mixed bag in this case. Based on what I saw of the convicted at sentencing, there was a deep internalization of how wrong what they did was. Yet, they did it. And now they are looking at some wholly unlooked for consequences.

        If the overall social setting is one in which football players matter immensely and those on the outside of that particular world matter little or not at all, it is possible to delude oneself in the moment that what they were doing was something perversely funny, to a person of no consequence, not like them, drunk not capable of human feeling.

        Further, because these particular criminals are youths, we can expect to still have a positive impact on their lives, and that they can still, with guidance, grow into productive adults.

  21. Thanks for mentioning the two girls.

    Yes, their cases will be interesting to follow, given the vicious campaign to attack and intimidate Dee Dee in Trayvon’s case.

    • racerrodig says:

      Until this the only thing I knew about Steubenville is that the pastor old from our Church was born there. I’m seeing that the tranquility he remembers from there is no more.

      As far as the corruption in the police depts of America….I saw it first hand. I could cite dozens of incidents. When I was a soph. in HS 5 of the stars of our football team were out the night before a game, got drunk and drove into a rather large tree almost in front of the HS. Big game in 12 hours…….that car was removed and the mess cleaned up before you could say “1st & 10….do it again” Nobody was hurt to speak of, nobody was killed and there was no one else involved, but several crimes were committed.

      God forbid those stars miss an important game (we were undefeated & un scored upon at that point) and God forbid any lessons learned other than “….wow, dodged a bullet on that one” No, 4 years later said driver killed 4 and maimed 2 while drunk.

      • lady2soothe says:

        Racer… Verified by Darlin’ who has contact with the family…. Just wanted you to know Morpheus passed away yesterday morning of respiratory failure.

        • racerrodig says:

          Thanks, I heard this morning. He was a real Giant as far as I’m concerned. When I stated I would hold a celebratory conviction BBQ and all on Team Trayvon were invited, he was the 1st to say, just say where !! He certainly had a way with words and no Zidiot could out logic him……

          I’m sure he and Trayvon have a grandfather / grandson relationship already…..Bet on it.

          • lady2soothe says:

            My thoughts exactly re: Grandfather/Grandson relationship.

          • racerrodig says:

            I’m sure Trayvon said “…hey man, thanks for standing up for me”
            & Morph said to the effect…..”….no problem my young man, you have a lot of friends down there……a lot of friends. It’s all gonna be alright, you’re mom, dad, Mr. Crump, Mr. Sharpton and all of those people keep thanking your own private Team, so, lets just chill and watch what happens.”

          • lady2soothe says:

            I agree. Morph is the first (to my knowledge) to get to meet Travon and no doubt they’re discussing the finer points of GZ’s lies and greediness and MO’M’s lack of merit as well as all the people who have stood together in Justice for Trayvon and will get to meet someday. Kind of like a big family reunion!

          • racerrodig says:

            Yep, all the way around

    • Judy75201 says:

      @Lady2: Morpheus Flux from HuffPo?

  22. Malisha says:

    Because we all assume that USUALLY things are right and righteous, and that USUALLY prosecutors DO try to prosecute for crimes and try not to just senselessly victimize innocents, and that USUALLY things go essentially the way they should in a democracy, we tend to believe that if a woman of, say, 50 tells a story that includes a seemingly insane incident from her past that we think defies logic, makes no sense, and doesn’t fit with our belief system, she’s just nuts, she’s paranoid, she’s this or that. A family that says their kid got killed for no reason is mistrusted and people presume, “He must have been involved in drugs and crime and they don’t want to admit it.”

    Yet look: kids get killed for no reason and prosecutors say, “we have no evidence it wasn’t self defense” until the whole country rises up in outrage. A girl gets gang-raped and prosecutors say, “we don’t need to ruin these young athletes’ lives just ’cause they got randy after a game,” and until an endangered organization busts them by putting up a You-Tube expose, none the worse for “wear.”

    Our judicial division is rife with corruption, prejudice, fundamental unfairness, organized constitutional deprivations, and just plain outrageous stinking filth! And it’s the only game in town.

    What a disgrace we are, to have come this far and to have missed by a mile. OMG. OMG. The “exception that proves the rule” is more the rule than the exception. I am drunk with disgust.

    • leander22 says:

      Our judicial division is rife with corruption, prejudice, fundamental unfairness, organized constitutional deprivations,

      I have a friend who is a police officer and works in organized crime and corruption, he of course could never tell anything about ongoing investigations, but conversations with him were always quite interesting nevertheless.

      He once recommended a thesis on corruption to me. The women who wrote it, writes in her introduction that a high percentage of cases she wanted to study were closed to her. Meaning she got no access to the files. Why would something like that happen?

      • Malisha says:

        Leander, can you refer us to the thesis? I am very keen to read it.

        PS: I think the cover-up is worse than the crime in most cases.

      • leander22 says:

        Malisha, I doubt it is translated.

        I got really interested in the topic during the “Kohl affair”. Swiss investigators had carefully studied money affairs between the Kohl administration and a French consortium, I don’t remember who now. They had got this perfect deal of all the roadside restaurants along the Autobahn (German superhighway) in the former East. Obviously an enormous amount of corruption surrounded the break up of the East German system.

        The files traveled through Germany from one place to another. No judge dared to touch it.l Finally a judge in NĂĽrnberg, Bavaria, told himself enough is enough and tried to deal with matters. As you may imagine nothing happened. But the judge was put on another job dealing with juvenile cases from then on. His superiors overruled his decisions. Case closed, move on.

      • leander22 says:

        There is only a Wikipedia article on a minor scandal under Kohl. CDU donations scandal (1999)

        The consortium was Elf Aquitaine. These restaurants are always connected with gas stations, obviously. There is only a German and French articles on matters. No English translation.

      • leander22 says:

        This is a translation of the German Wikipedia entry. Notice the money flows were proven but nothing happened.

        One sentence from my friend I will never forget. The most startling thing is that these matters are just business as usual for the people we arrest. They don’t accept that they may have done something wrong.

      • leander22 says:

        Link does not work, maybe it doesn’t even work if you paste it into Google translate yourself. Maybe the cause is our peculiar letter “ä” =ae. Affäre/Affaere = affair. It doesn’t matter, while the money flows have proved, polite quarters have moved on, telling us their is nothing to see, in spite of several corruption cases in France surrounding Elf Aquitaine too, and proven money flows involving dozens of million.

  23. roderick2012 says:

    This is what happens when kids and alcohol mix.

    I am glad that I never developed a taste for alcohol because it’s bad news.

    If America could get rid of alcohol and guns this country would be so much better.

    • rayvenwolf says:

      I have to disagree there roderick. Alcohol and guns aren’t the problem. Stupidity and a lack of common sense are. Bad things will still happen without those two items.

      and FYI this could have happened even without alcohol. she still could have been drugged and she for damn sure could have still been raped. don’t put blame on something that isn’t the root of the problem.

    • Sorry Roderick. Alcohol is not the determining factor here. A total lack of respect for young women were at play here, not to mention stupidity, a sense of entitlement and young men not being taught by their parents to have respect for young women. what is wrong with some young men today? I certainly do not teach my own son to always show respect to young woman, as he would show me and his sisters. Young women are not playthings. You don’t see an enebriated young female and some young men think that is a license to take advantage of her because she is unconscious and does not know what is happening. Instead of looking at her like a sister, a cousin, your daughter, your niece, they do the vilest most humiliating thing that they can do to her, and then they want to blame her for what happened and blame the alcohol.

      These young boys penertrated her with their fingers, and they urinated on her as well. They took photos and the photos were posted on the social media website. The individual who did that is in trouble as well for posting a minor on a social media web site. What are parents teaching their young sons? That it is cool to penetrate, humiliate, dominate and control a young woman with their penis or whatever is available, then to take photos and embarress woman more? How cruel and how childish, selfish and immature they behaved. What if this was their sister? Would they want what they did to happen to their sister? They received the punishment that they deserved.

      • Malisha says:

        And the legal definition of “penetrate” is rape.

        • IIRC, I believe the definition of rape is penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus of another person for the purpose of sexual gratification. Penetration can be with a penis, finger or an object.

      • roderick2012 says:

        Alcohol was definitely a contributing factor.

        If there had been no alcohol then the young lady would not have passed out and been taken advantage of.

        I wish that women would understand that trying to be like the boys and getting so drunk that she lost conciseness which allowed these boys to take advantage of her.

        A young teacher in New Orleans did the same thing while celebrating an award.

        She and her friends were so drunk that instead of calling her a cab they put her into her car so she could sleep off her hangover.

        Now’s she’s probably at the bottom of the Mississippi River or Lake Pontchartrain because she misused alcohol.

        • cielo62 says:

          roderick~ you can be such an ass sometimes. Alcohol gets abused because of emotional issues. This young lady obviously needed medical and psychological help even BEFORE she was raped. But people should feel safe enough to be able to get drunk WITHOUT fear of molestation ESPECIALLY if you believe you are amonst friends. Lack of morals and respect are the main problems here. Alcohol was just an accessory.

      • rayvenwolf says:

        If there had been no alcohol then the young lady would not have passed out and been taken advantage of.

        While its true alcohol was a contributing factor if you DON’T think entitled twits like these two couldn’t have sexually assaulted this girl or any other for that matter WITHOUT it, you’re fooling yourself. As someone who is female and has hung out with enough guys from one end of the spectrum to another – creeps who do things like this don’t need alcohol to take advantage of someone. Yes and inebriated girl makes things EASIER, but it is not needed.

        Threats and coercion work just as well for the right snake.

        And if I have to make my point more clearly about how alcohol really isn’t needed. When I was 14 I was at a summer party some friends of my cousins were throwing. There was no booze or drugs. The lack of neither didn’t stop some 15 year old that I was dancing with from trying to shove his hand in my pants and underwear to try and penetrate me.

        Now if I had been under the influence or someone who could be manipulated into something, the night COULD have ended differently. Instead we all went home early and that POS got to nurse a fat lip.

      • Malisha says:

        Professor, I expressed myself inexpertly. What you said is what I meant. The sexual offenders in this case committed rape.

      • roderick2012 says:

        “Now if I had been under the influence or someone who could be manipulated into something, the night COULD have ended differently. Instead we all went home early and that POS got to nurse a fat lip.”

        You just made my point. Since you weren’t inebriated things didn’t end ‘differently’ and you were able to remember what happened.

        This girl was so drunk that she didn’t recall what had occurred and only because these punks were arrogant enough to record it that there was any evidence.

        What you and other women in this forum are doing by blaming the boys completely for the events that happened that night is giving them more power than they deserve. If you want to go that route then you will have to agree that other stereotypes about men and women.

        I guess I would be called a feminist and since I believe that women are equal to men they also have the same responsibility for protecting themselves and not putting themselves in bad situations.

        The fact is that between puberty and say 21 men are walking erections and should be treated as such. If I had a daughter I would lock her in a basement until she was able to handle herself.

        As someone stated-it would be nice if we lived in a world where we could leave our house doors open or unlocked but we don’t live in such a world.

      • lurker says:

        Roderick–what you are saying sounds a lot like victim-blaming. Most rape victims, regardless of the situation, spend some time dwelling on the what-ifs. What if I didn’t walk down that street, answer the door, go to that party and so on and so forth. Always possible to speculate. But the reason for doing so has to do with getting caught in a loop of feeling somehow to blame for what happened. And it verges over into things like, what if I didn’t wear that sweater, or skirt, or walk to the car alone or drink at that party.

        None of those involved should have been drinking–all were underage. But, I think that the alcohol simply becomes a masking factor to prevent the guilty parties from accepting responsibility for their own actions.

        Rape is rape and no female ever asks for it.

      • Erica says:

        what is digital rape?

      • roderick2012 says:

        @celio62, I love you too.

        @lurker I am not blaming the victim but she made some poor decisions that night also and regardless of how the teenage boys are punished she will be traumatized for the rest of her life by this experience.

        Don’t you think that prevention is better than attempting to recover from an event that will have life long consequences?

      • Malisha says:

        Roderick, sorry, there is NO ELEMENT OF A SEX OFFENSE that can be diluted from the responsibility of the criminal onto the responsibility of the victim. If it is illegal to get drunk and a female gets drunk, she is guilty of the crime of getting drunk. If it is not a crime to get drunk, the drunk female is NOT GUILTY of any crime when she gets drunk. Furthermore, there is no criminal penalty in American law that says, “If you commit this crime you get raped…without a trial.”

        The guys who committed the sexual offenses committed against a victim THEY CHOSE to criminally abuse. PERIOD. She was easier for them to abuse than some other woman who would have punched them in the nose? Right. True. But that only has to do with THEIR CHOICE of victim. SHE did not choose to be criminally assaulted, either by her words or her deeds or her failure to defend herself.

        A man who had been drunk and who was then raped by these criminals would have the same “equality” that this female victim had. These criminals did not CHOOSE a man to rape.

      • parrot says:


        “This young lady obviously needed medical and psychological help even BEFORE she was raped”.

        You hit it on the nail here, Cielo.

        “But people should feel safe enough to be able to get drunk WITHOUT fear…”

        It is true, in an ideal world. But the sad reality is that calloused people like these young men exist, so it is essential to assume responsibility in the use of alcohol and take affirmative steps to ensure one’s safety. Wise parents will teach this to their children.

        Young people (everyone really) need to be aware of situations that make them vulnerable to crime.

        AVOID the situations that can lead to problems.

        Common sense dictates:

        Make it a practice to never leave a drink on the table to go to the restroom at a bar or club because it may be laced with GHB.

        Resolve to never go to such places alone.

        Never accept a ride home from anyone who is not trusted.

        Know that good judgment goes out the window when drunk, and makes one easy prey for the predators sitting in wait.

        The list goes on, of course, and without being an ironclad guarantee of safety, this will go a long way to prevent these sad situations.

        Isn’t that far better than having to go through the legal system, not to mention having to cope with the psychological trauma?

      • roderick2012 says:

        @parrot thanks for having common sense and understanding that preventing a tragedy is much less expensive than a trial.

        @ Malisha, whatever.

        You are stuck on punishing crimes while these incidents occur against and again but no one wants to discuss avoiding poor decisions before they lead to permanent scars.

        • You are referring to separate issues.

          Assuming the victim’s drink was not spiked, she exercised poor judgment by drinking so much that she passed out.

          So what?

          That did not give anyone a license to sexually assault her and anyone who did committed a crime.

      • roderick2012 says:

        @ Frederick Leatherman says: That did not give anyone a license to sexually assault her and anyone who did committed a crime.

        No, but it made it much easier!!

      • leander22 says:

        The fact is that between puberty and say 21 men are walking erections and should be treated as such.

        So there will eternally be some type of natural law? Male sperm with its outward urge inspire by the easily accessible female body?

        And the difference between Shakespeare’s times, when it meant a death sentence only if it involved a heiress, and today is that it’s a crime most of the time, with the exception of girls who have forgotten their ways, or what was still befitting ladies of the 19th century? In that case it may well be no crime but she ultimately had it coming?

        Somehow like walking/running/skipping while black leisurely in the rain?

      • roderick2012 says:

        @Frederick Leatherman

        My, my, my aren’t we extrapolating this evening.

        I said no such thing but if we had not been in the era where teenagers video anything and everything this young lady would not have known she had been violated.

        Why would anyone want that fate?

        Regardless what happens to those two punks she can never change what happened to her and that’s what you people don’t understand.

        Preventing this crap from happening to another woman.

      • roderick2012 says:

        leander22 says:

        March 20, 2013 at 2:12 pm

        The fact is that between puberty and say 21 men are walking erections and should be treated as such.

        So there will eternally be some type of natural law? Male sperm with its outward urge inspire by the easily accessible female body?

        No, but the teenagers are dealing with strange hormones and urges and the teen years are the prime reproductive years and that’s why most good parents keep a close eye on their children to make sure they don’t become teen parents and don’t allow them to run wild.

        As for your allusion to Trayvon Martin, he was a victim of circumstance. He did abolutely nothing wrong except being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The same can’t be said for the young lady who made the poor decision to drink enough to point of passing out and not remembering anything that occurred that night.

  24. DruDo says:

    Mr. Leatherman, my thoughts, exactly, but you express them so much better. I do think they should have been tried as adults. What they did was not a kid prank, but an adult criminal act and should have been treated as such. It’ll be interesting to see what they do with the two girls who were arrested for threatening the victim.

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