Here is the David Knechel video that Xena published in a comment last night.
I believe it’s an important video for all to see, so I posted it here.
The first part is a walk-through from where Zimmerman claimed to have parked his vehicle to Retreat View Circle and back to the T-intersection.
The second part is a drive-through starting from the same location and driving south on Twin Trees Lane around to the south end of the sidewalk that runs between the two rows of buildings with the T-intersection at the far end. Then it continues to Retreat View Circle, turns left, and proceeds up to where the T-intersection and cut-through meets Retreat View Circle.
Curious coincidence: Both routes take the same amount of time.
Knechel produced this video without charge but has asked people to go to his site and click on advertisers there to get to Amazon and other listed vendors when you want to make a purchase. The price you pay is the same, but he gets a credit if you log on to the vendor’s site from his site.
His Website: http://marinadedave.blogspot.com/
Frederick Leatherman Law Blog 
@Digger
@Malisha
I know you both believe Zimmerman had his gun out during his pursuit of Trayvon. But I can’t see him drawing his gun out until it was time to execute. Where was it when JohnW6 saw them wrangling on the ground? Why wouldn’t Zimmerman have used it earlier?
Zimmerman knew he was shoveling BS at “Sean 311” when he said “He has his hand in his waistband.” Zimmerman just made that up to try to impress Sean with the “danger” of his encounter with the “suspect.”
It was spin to make Zimmerman out to be some kind of a hero with “cool.” You can hear Zimmerman escalating his sell during that 311 call.
We all know Zimmerman is a bully, and bullies are inordinately self-protecting. I expect Osterman was a reasonably diligent gun-handling teacher and dwelt on gun safety issues. In a million years I cannot see Zimmerman running through a wet, stormy dark night on wet grass in an area with little illumination (actually, none), holding a loaded KelTec with no safety – and leaving Zimmerman with only one hand to protect himself in a fall, or an encounter.
I say this as someone who, for a number of years, wore a holstered gun many hours of the day, albeit tied to the thigh (looking, I suppose like John Wayne in drag). There is no way I would run with a loaded gun in hand. No way at night. No way in the rain. No way on wet grass. No way, because I could have shot myself. I have done a lot of stupid things in my life, but shooting myself is not one of them.
I also don’t think – and have never thought – that Zimmerman started the pursuit with intent to kill. When he became enraged by Trayvon, and knew Trayvon would accuse him of assault as soon as the cops arrived – and he knew it would be soon – but mostly out of rage, he pulled the KelTek from its holster and fired.
I agree with Jun: Zimmerman made certain Trayvon saw the gun, so Trayvon knew that he would be killed.
“Tonight you die, motherfucker” was likely the statement of the moment – but not by Trayvon.
Trayvon’s last words were his scream for his life.
Which was the scream of his death – a scream cut short by Zimmerman’s bullet, as was Trayvon’s life.
LLMPapa, I love your attitude and your wisdom!!!!!
The Zidiots on the treeslum lurk on this blog and are known for posting criticisms of comments and videos. At times, they post the vids on the treeslum too. Since the Zimmermans are in bed with that group, you can bet that they and George know the truths revealed.
It gives me pleasure knowing that he is so nervous that he is medicated into a state of drowsiness. What they intend for evil, God uses for good. It’s all God’s plan.
I have also thought and agree with Malisha that George had his gun drawn prior to the immediate contact with Trayvon. No way would he “walk’ through (or run for that matter) if he was so sure this child was “up to no good” “know what he had in his waistband”, (implying it could be a weapon) without using his weapon to be fully protected in case Trayvon “jumped out of the
bushes”
I feel George pulled it out once he confronted Trayvon, hence the screams, and the wrestling. George’s story doesnt make sense because it is a dumb lie and you cant reach for your gun in a waist band, in your back side, while being mounted and smothered, headbashed or whatever other crap he claimed. After the confrontation by George, Trayvon was heard screaming for his life and I believe that is when George reached behind his back and pulled out his gun and waved it at the kid. The kid may have tried to pin George down and prevent himself from getting shot but he was no match for the ex bouncer even physically and mentally.
Trent Sawyer, (stateoftheinternet) has done a video using the first part of Dave’s walk-through next to GZ’s NEN call.
One thing for sure — in order for GZ’s story about when he reached the T to agree with his NEN call, he had to have ran.
I also did a calculation of running 250 feet, and the 2 missing minutes match George going down the back pathway to block Trayvon access to his homebase, confront him, and commit the murder
Think of it: If George saw Trayvon approaching the back door of the house where Brandi lived, he would have been “seeing” a suspicious guy who did not live in the neighborhood (He told the cops twice that he knew EVERYONE in the neighborhood) trying to break into a house. He didn’t give Trayvon a chance to get NEAR any house he could have sought refuge in or help from. That’s one reason I think there’s a possibility Osterman was working with him to “herd” their target into the net George set for “the suspect.” I am convinced George had his gun drawn as soon as he thought there was possibility of apprehending “the suspect.”
The problem is witness 18 only saw George confronting Trayvon and then commit the murder. There’s nothing that ties Osterman (at least that we know of) except for maybe his phone records and the bank camera video and perhaps if the clubhouse pool videos are cleaned up, they may be able to close up on him.
Even if George decides to flip on Osterman, if it is true, George has credibility issues. At most if they match DNA to Osterman on the gun, they may have something.
I was under the impression that they can use the clubhouse videos to enhance and close up on position to prove where the car was parked, if it was parked along the TTL. Then they could get Officer Mead also to confirm position.
Did officer Meade take a picture of a lighter looking car registered to Zimmerman? Then there was a larger SUV that George calls his truck? Were both of their cars there?
I havent seen Mead’s report yet. They would have to subpoena his notebook from that night
The person who was checking tags (not Mead) did find two vehicles registered to ‘Zimmerman’. Presumably George’s Honda truck and Shellie’s Honda sedan. This was well after the shooting of course, by which time one would have expected Shellie to have been informed of the shooting and gone to the scene. She was probably accompanied by Mark Osterman, so one of them drove the sedan, and the other the truck, back to the Zimmerman home.
@WhoNoze –
Concur, based on dox and w/your “most likely/logical” scenario re the drive-awayss.
Both vehicles were established by LE as registered to the Z’s.
Jun, I may be guilty of confusing the issue of Officer Mead with my Tag video. Mead is NOT the officer who ran the tag. I singled him out for comparison because, even though all Mead did at the crime scene was collect a couple of witness statements and stretch some yellow crime tape, there IS a report from him.
The point I was trying to make was, if there was a written report from an officer with such minimal involvement, why isn’t there a report from the officer who found Zimmerman’s truck and ran the tag?
If my wording in the vid muddied the waters, I apologize. Words are not always my strongest suit, LOL.
Mead’s role wasn’t minimal. He handled the bulk of the canvassing and witness interviews. His involvement only seems minor because his written report is so minimal and sketchy, as are the rest of written reports by the cops on the scene. By the prevailing (low, low) standard, I’m not surprised the checking of license plates didn’t make it into any written report.
Jun, the security videos strongly suggest that GZ parked on TTL, facing the clubhouse, just after beginning his NEN call. What the videos cannot tell us is exactly where on TTL Zimmerman’s truck was at that point, and whether or not he moved it from it’s original parking position to a different spot on TTL before leaving it to chase Trayvon. I’m pretty sure he did, based on the audio of the NEN call, and also DeeDee’s comments, but you can’t demonstrate it by the videos.
That is what I mean though. Correct me if I am wrong but being Law Enforcement they should have strong video hardware and software to clean up the video as well as do closeups and they can get a general idea of George’s car parking as well as used the motion detection lights to close up on George and Trayvon and the stalking and chase
Wasn’t it heard on some video that GZ was out of breath, which would imply he might have been hurrying along instead of “walking”
at a natural pace, because he didn’t want to loose sight of the direction Trayvon was taking and having nothing to do with looking for an address, a lie to cover his intent to apprehend Trayvon alone.
Serino, I believe, told him he sounded like he was running, and he said it was the wind. The weather conditions of that night did not support such a wild idea. I think he was winded and finished the call so he could draw his gun, slow down and apprehend “the suspect” to “bring him in” in protection of the neighborhood and in furtherance of receiving the “Singlehanded Savior of the Year” award.
I think they can prove he ran after him. George stated himself that Trayvon ran away from him at least 3 times. George admits to following. To follow a running person you need to run or skip really fast, hence now George was chasing the kid. Also, how else would George get that far south of the back pathway to chase Trayvon north, if he wasnt running? Witness 18, witness 2, and Deedee all note a confrontation down the back pathway. Also, correct me if I am wrong, but Police usually have video software to enhance and close up on certain parts of a video and I believe they can do that with the clubhouse video to prove, not only did George run, but that he was stalking Trayvon at the mailbox.
There’s a simple, and recorded question leading to a logical conclusion for whether GZ ran; i.e., what caused the dispatcher to ask GZ “Are you following him?”
With all due respect Brown, I think there have been a variety of Trayvon’s-suspected-path videos. There are other things I would want someone with access to RATL to photograph.
1. As far as timing goes, it might be useful to have a visual illustration of Trayvon’s route as described by George Zimmerman, to show how long it would have taken for Trayvon to walk from Taaffe’s to the clubhouse, and from there to disappear down the dog-walk, re-emerge, come back to GZ truck, circle it, and then head back to the dog-walk again — all of which would take much more time than GZ describes or the NEN call establishes. But that could turned from tell into show.
2. I’d really like to know more about what the witnesses could or couldn’t have seen or heard, but you really can’t capture that with a video camera…
3. It would be extremely helpful to those of us working on the security videos to get both daylight shots of what’s in their field of view, and to definitively identify the light sources that show up in the pool video (which would not so much be a matter of taking pictures, but of eyeball reporting). The latter would require Dave to be there after dark, but as the sage once said “It gets late early these days.”
4. It might also be useful to have a traveling video of the path Zimmerman more likely took, rather than what he claims. That is, starting from that parking spot on TTL, but jogging – not walking – for the length of time GZ exerts himself on the NEN call. Ideally there would be two takes, a) where the camera turns down the dog-path sidewalk, and b) where the camera goes over to RTL and immediately turns South. I’m thinking (a) would show that had GZ followed TM down the sidewalk, he would have been well south of where he says he was. More importantly (b) would establish that GZ could have been trying to head off Trayvon at the back gate on foot, taking RTL South until he had a good view of the back gate, then slowing down as he realized Trayvon was NOT leaving by the gate. At that point, he would have resumed walking South more deliberately, looking for a sign of ‘the suspect’. I’m assuming that a video continuing in this way would show that by the end of the NEN call or moments thereafter, GZ could have appeared at the South end of the dog-walk. thus in the time between hanging up with Sean and the start of the confrontation, he could have re-encountered Trayvon in the vicinity of the Green’s back door, and pursued him North back up the sidewalk towards the site of the shooting.
Good comment, whonoze. well reflected.
Concerning the clubhouse pool videos, I liked the work done on them, but I have enormous difficulty to see, what I am suposed to see, at least in the pool video. I wonder if you have the same thing in mind. The problem with this type of grainy and low picture frame video is that it leaves you with a rather diffuse structure. In other words your mind is free to to read whatever you want into it.
This is not meant to be dismissive. Maybe LLMPapa ultimately helps me to see. (deaf, dumb and blind)
We’re working on a video that will show people how to read the security videos.
All you can see in them, really, is the lights of passing cars, and one point where cars come between a light source and the camera creating a bit of a shadow or corona. However, the movements of vehicles can be deduced from these ‘light events’ which is what Tchoupi has done with his charts, graphs and illustrations.
So the project now is to make a video that presents Tchoupi’s analysis in a more accessible form. The videos will be synched to clock time, and include audio of the NEN call and different parts of the 911 calls. It will also include animations to show the movements of GZ’s vehicle as revealed by the light events. It’s a lot of work, and we (especially me) are having an energy shortage…
looking forward to it…..
LLMPapa has a video regarding the “circling” of GZ’s vehicle.
Something I’ve considered is having a page of references on my blog, categorized by subject for other blogs and videos. Although I’ve looked for LLMPapa’s vid that I referenced, I cannot pinpoint which one is it now.
I’d like to see Mr.knechel take some photos of those utility covers. It would help elemanate them as being something that
Caused George’s injures.
GOOD POINT!
adding to list
and the doggie sign a close up!
@ Brown –
FDLE took excellent shots of the utility covers and the grassy area where the killing occurred – see them on Axiom Amnesia. There are already shots and video of the leafless trees that could have scratched GZ.
Needed are close-up shots of all aspects of the Doggie-Do sign, and close-up of those two highlighted areas in the death-site grass – one next to the dogwalk, which is likely the sprinkler head. Would it help if I bought a sprinkler head of the RainBird series they use and shipped it to WhoNose or you, or Professor Leatherman, or whom?
I can do this. Tell me where.
My Dear Patricia,
I am so glad that on this blog there are people here who care like you do and everyone else here.I don’t have the technical know how like WhonoZE or Amsterdam. I believe they are working on a separate project as far as the clubhouse videos. But we are all on the same team like Xena says. I don’t think the sprinkler head fits into their project per se. It’s more of a useful tool for us here. I don’t know if it is possible for you to take a series of digital photos of the sprinkler, and upload them onto photobucket or some other program that would allow us and anyone else interested to see the sprinkler. I believe those photos of the sprinkler can gives us an inkling to whether that was the source of GZ injuries.
: ^ )
Brown
@Brown
http://www.rainbird.com/support/spraysoverview/index.htm
First, depending on where our various students live, they may or may not have experience with sprinkler heads and/or irrigation systems. If it rains regularly through the summer where you live, sprinklers are not usually installed, like they are in arid areas.
What is significant is that they have moving parts (have to pop up from the ground to do their job, which happens hydraulically, then when the water flow stops, they pop down).
They are incredibly tough because they get mowed over by lawn tractors when they are in the lowered position. They also cause injuries (I have beeen a commercial grower for 25 years) from something so simple as stepping on them inadvertently.
I would not like my head (or any body part) dragged over a lowered sprinkler head. My offer to send you a sprinkler head is to show you how sharp-edged they can be if you’re dragged over one under any pressure.
The sprinkler heads would have been in the lowered, flush-to-earth-level position the night Trayvon was murdered – because it was raining – as required by FL state law.
A few months back I called the landscape contractor who had the contract at Retreat at Twin Lakes (at the time of the murder) and confirmed the type of sprinkler heads installed. Please watch the video for landscape contractors on the RainBird website I’ve referenced above. They show the sprinkler heads and the risers and how they operate.
There is no need in a video retracing Trayvon’s path to include a shot of the sprinkler head. But I would hope whoever is filming would check to see the two locations marked by FDLE at the death site that simply appear as grass, and find if a sprinkler head or other sharp object is buried in the grass there. It’s close to the water utility box covers that are clearly visible in the same FDLE photos on Axiom Amnesia.
This is a very minor detail, maybe one that only a landscaper or someone in ag would notice (especially one that’s been injured, like me). Zimmerman seems not to be sure how his head got injured, other than claiming Trayvon slammed it against the concrete. If THAT were true, Zimmerman would have pointed out the spot on the sidewalk to the detectives. At one point he considers “the sign” as the culprit.
The blood flow on the back of Zimmerman’s head was not blurred in the photo the neighbor took, so it could only have happened just before he rolled on top of Trayvon and shot him. The blood is NOT smeared as it would be by wet grass IF Zimmerman was UNDER Trayvon.
The small linear wound(s) to the back of Zimmerman’s head show that his head was dragged over something that could abrade the surface 1/4 wide, for a brief period of time, resulting in cuts no more than inch long.
What was it?
Enjoy the RainBird video!
@Patricia
Thank you for the link, I haven’t gotten to it yet, was checking emails real quick while on a break from cleaning my house. I am on a super mission to do some much needed in depth cleaning in the house before the holidays.
I am agreement with you on a video shot of a sprinkler head located at the death scene, just to see if there indeed is one buried there. I am also interested in the doggie sign. Bolts, anything sticking out etc would also be great to look at, only because it was said by GZ that he didn’t know if it was the sign or something in his hand that he hitting him. I find that totally implausible. How would the kid use the sign to hit him with? Duh. It still amazes me how he ascribes superhuman strength to TM.
Anyway, just wanted to respond to let you know I received the post.
: ^ )
Brown
I’m sorry Patricia , I forget to answer a question. My vote is yes as to getting the sprinkler. If you have the know how about uploading pics and all that, please do.
If you don’t have the know how maybe we can get Whonoze or someone with the know how to take the pictures and upload them.
I await your repsonse.
: ^ )
@Brown
There’s an informal protocol to not publishing names and addresses on the ‘net, so let’s decide who has an already-published location that I should send to. I do not want anyone to become recipients of 1,000 unordered pizzas sent by Zimbots – or worse.
In the meantime, what they look like can be seen on the RainBird contractor video.
Or you can stop by your local Home Depot or Loews or Garden Center and run the palm of your hand over the top of a sprinkler head. Note that if grains of sand get in the works, the center protrudes slightly after a few weeks of operation. That’s what can cut/scrape. Or – this would not be evident in new ones – as garden tractors (and blades) occasionally nick them, they get “burred” edges.
All this is not as dramatic as O.J’s knife, but it’s one of the details that should not be overlooked – because no detail should be overlooked.
Totally agree. I love Home Depot. Need to pick up some filters anyway. Will check out sprinkler heads.
I’d like to see such photos to give credibility that GZ probably did injure his head on utility covers.
Totally agree per GZ statement to LE, I don’t know what he was hitting me with the sign or…… IIRC Trent or someone the name fails me now did a video recording him saying the sign. The back front of sign and utility cover and sprinkler. Must be in.
It was Trent, and in his video, he shows the doggie pole sign as GZ walks by it. It’s about the same height as GZ’s face. Those signs, (if I’m not mistaken), are attached to the pole with 3 screws in the back, down the center, matching up with the scratches on GZ’s face.
With regards to the sign, is the poop-bag dispenser made of plastic or metal? In other words, what would it have done to George’s head if he had fallen against it? I noticed that a dog walk path that I was on recently had plastic dispensers, but I’m not sure that is universally the case.
On the dog station, check all the connectors – screws, bolts, braces, etc. Run your hands ovr everything. Are there sharp, squared or any damaged edges that could cut?
YES
Thank you for your reply, Whonoze, I really haven’t seen any videos detailed like GZ videos, as far as timing and actually walk thur from the store and thru the complex from TM point of view. I would be extremely grateful to you if you can direct me to some.
You said,
More importantly (b) would establish that GZ could have been trying to head off Trayvon at the back gate on foot, taking RTL South until he had a good view of the back gate, then slowing down as he realized Trayvon was NOT leaving by the gate. At that point, he would have resumed walking South more deliberately, looking for a sign of ‘the suspect’. I’m assuming that a video continuing in this way would show that by the end of the NEN call or moments thereafter, GZ could have appeared at the South end of the dog-walk. thus in the time between hanging up with Sean and the start of the confrontation, he could have re-encountered Trayvon in the vicinity of the Green’s back door, and pursued him North back up the sidewalk towards the site of the shooting.
I completely agree. Hopefully Mr. Knechel will keep checking back so he can get a scenario in his head and how to accomplish all we can get with his time constraints of Youtube.
I appreciate all the work and insights as far as timing, audio and whereabouts are concern. You and Tchopi and all of BCCLISt have spent alot of time in getting your analysis down pat.
We are a team. I truly believe a video showing where TM started and ended will give us a glimpse of what he was seeing. I just believe that. I don’t know how to explain that but I just do.
Brown
Didn’t the witness DeeDee say that Martin told her that he(Zimmerman) was behind him again?
Yes. I feel and its JMO. TM to DD, he’s behind him again, means to me, he followed in his car first, then on foot, therefore you get a response from TM to DD He is behind me again. That to me would be a logical response to someone I was talking to on the phone.
I dont know 100% about the path he took but George was down that back pathway, due to witnesses, Timing, Geography, Audio, Video. I think George just ran str8 down the back pathway and then cut him off and confronted him. We can get a better idea from witness 18 because she can tell them whether George was facing her or how they were positioned when the confrontation occurred.
Thank you for posting the video, Mr. Leatherman. My only intent is to help everyone interested in this case ascertain what may have transpired the evening of Feb. 26 based on this walk-through. An on-the-ground visual gives a much better perspective than an overhead map.
Here is what I wrote about on my blog post that included the video:
“After viewing the video, simple questions arose. The evening of February 26, 2012 was cold, rainy and wet. It was a dreary night. Why would anyone get out of their vehicle to search for an address that no one asked for? Why get out of the vehicle at all? Addresses were quite visible all around. Wouldn’t driving to the other side have been much more convenient? And drier? In my opinion, this only leads to one thing — searching for a suspect on foot. George Zimmerman never looked for an address. He was stalking his victim.”
I will gladly honor your contributors’ requests to shoot video footage of the areas of question; from Zimmerman’s house to Taaffe’s to the clubhouse and mailboxes; up to the point where this video began. It will offer a good perspective on the time it took Trayvon to walk the distance, but without being able to offer any possible stops made by the victim along the way. Nor can I duplicate how the defendant and victim perceived each other in the drizzly darkness of night. (Keep in mind that I am open to any other ideas.)
My suggestion to Brown about purchases made though my blog was merely a suggestion. Gosh by golly, I’ve made a whopping $3.71 since adding the advertisers two months ago, so I’m not making a living at it. I feel it is my civic duty to help others who cannot take advantage of the location because they live elsewhere.
LLMPapa is really the go to video person and he is free to use any footage of mine. He is excellent at what he does. Me? I’m mostly a blogger, and my main blog is simply marinadedave.com. The Blogger/Blogspot one is merely used for linking back to the main one.
To Brown and everyone else, thank you for acknowledging the video. I sure hope it helps.
Thanks for your comment. I appreciate your efforts and willingness to help.
I was thinking along similar lines because Zimmerman told the NEN dispatcher that his “suspect” was headed in the direction of the rear entrance and I thought it would have made more sense for Zimmerman to have driven directly there following the route that your video follows, if for no other reason than to head him off at the proverbial pass, and having arrived there, parked and got out to hunt for Trayvon by backtracking toward where he last saw him. Yes, I agree that Zimmerman had no reason to get out of his dry and warm vehicle, unless it was to hunt for Trayvon in an area where he could not drive his vehicle.
He obviously intended at least to detain him since he was trying to prevent him from escaping out the back entrance as all the other “assholes” had done.
Fred
After thinking about it more, I’m not fully understanding. The cameraman is walking a normal pace which allows the time to pretty much be the same as driving at what I believe was said to be 15 mph speed (limit). What would the comparison in time be if the cameraman was running after Trayvon as to the driving at 15mph? ( re: Mr. Knechel’s video)
That’s the point, Digger. GZ says he was not running but walking. It only has to be reasonably questioned if he could walk at a normal pace and reach those certain points as he said he did.
The other thing that (at least for me), the driving portion shows, is that GZ’s intentions were not to observe because he could have observed the same area where he said Trayvon ran from his vehicle.
I believe you have cleared up alot and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your help.
P.S. Don’t spend all that money in one place. : ^ ) lol
Brown
Don´t knock it David… from little acorns big oak trees grow!
Ok Xena, I know ZG said he was walking, and I can’t readily recall at what time but I do remember discussion that the sound
on his call was that he was out of breath as if hurrying/fast pace.
Using the fact that he said he was walking I still wonder what the difference would be, just curious, because it is only GZ’s word that he walked. This video proves his story to be true but if it is proven that he was scurrying, running, fast pace ? It is no biggie but would prove the video is incorrect. Wouldn’t it? 🙂
I thought the idea was to prove he was lying not back it instead of support his story. Well, it’s midnight and I haven’t had my coffee, No big deal!
GZ said, “Shit. He’s running.” The dispatcher had a reason to ask GZ if he was following Trayvon. GZ replied “Yeah.”
GZ was heard breathing heavily and wind was heard in his phone. Does anyone believe that GZ would be casually walking in following a person who he said was “running”?
Did you watch Trent Sawyer’s video where he placed the first portion of Dave’s video next to GZ’s NEN call? If GZ walked to RVC, he would have had the address to the house on RVC while he was still on the phone with dispatch saying that he didn’t know the address. Also, if GZ walked back from RTV to the T, we would have heard Trayvon ask “You got a problem?” because GZ was STILL on the phone with dispatch when he reached the T.
You rock! I love your site.
I have a new post up:
Zimmerman: How to Interpret a Witness List in a Criminal Case
I’m very put off by request for amazon purchase for Mr. Knechel. Teeslaw, LLMpapa, state of the Internet, and bcc’s Phd Physics work ( insta-sp.?) have all done extensive videos without asking for compensation. Any money should be going to Trayvon Martin’s cause. And none have copyrighted their work.
Also, don’t get his point either.
Let me respond
He didn’t ask for compensation, I offered me and me alone. other people here wanted to chip in but he said he didn’t want any monies, but if you shopped online please check out his advertisers on his site. It is exactly what Malisha did in regards to helping her defray the cost for her FOIA, instead she asked that we donate to Leatherman’s blog.
: ^ )
Brown
2dogsonly – Maybe you should have read the comments before becoming – put off. I think you are completely misunderstanding what is being requested. I suggest (in a nice way) that you start from the beginning and work your way down.
I’m just the messenger. He made a request. I passed it on. You do not have to do anything.
As I see it, the difference is that Brown is asking Dave to go shoot another video, tailor-made to fit suggestions from this blog. That’s a comission, so-to-speak. And Dave rejected any direct payments, saying only that if people wanted to help out, they could make Amazon orders through his link. He’s not asking anyone to buy anything they wouldn’t otherwise.
I think 2dogs has the right idea in wanting this not to sink into a money/advertising thing. Leave that for MOM et al. But I don’t see a problem here.
thank you Whonoze
; ^ )
@2Dogs,
I am very put off by your lack of comprehension as to what Brown suggested.
My entire quota of outrage (and lesser variations, like being “put off”) is dedicated to Justice for Trayvon (with the price of justice to be paid by Trayvon’s murderer.)
I considered Brown’s suggestion, that if you buy through Amazon you utilize Dave’s website, to be both practical and creative.
Had not thought of that, and I appreciate the great idea.
We are all in this together.
I hope you get my point.
Agree totally with all the rest. Anyway, just went to YouTube to see what advertisers and I can´t even see Amazon where I do buy a lot so I don´t think his profit after petrol is gonna be to set up a private equity or whatever.
BTW, anyone know why I don´t see the adverts? I´ve even paused AdBlock to no avail.
gbrbsb, it’s not the YouTube channel but the blog.
http://marinadedave.com/
Thanks Xena… found it now.
This video from Dave Knechel is only the latest example in a long line of information and insight made available to us by a true warrior in children’s causes.
To say this video is important is a vast understatement.
He has given me permission to use his work in what I do, and I am putting together videos now that will incorporate Dave’s video with Zimmerman’s statements to conclusively show, once again, his story is a damn lie.
Much love goes to you Papa and everyone dedicated to bringing Justice for Trayvon Martin
Make sure that you show how ridiculous it was for GZ to walk past an address located on a building in front of him in order to go get an address for a location where he would not be.
Thank you Eric for your post.
But only only TM route suggestions pleaseeeeeee
LLMPapa already did — back in July.
I absolutely agree about the address, the same thing troubled me too.
But the point by defense will be, he was asked what house his car was “parked in front of”. If he indeed parked at the back of the rows on Retreat View circle, he points at, there is no way he can give the officer “the exact address”. … But why on that side of the road, America is not GB. Was he in fact lying in wait there to watch Trayvon approach and that is why he couldn’t have seen the number in his back?
Besides keep his report on Feb. 2, in mind. He followed the suspect and gave the officer a new address, Taaffe’s house. That is obviously his intention here too. He wants to be very helpful, have Trayvon arrested or at least brought to police questioned, his home searched. He wants to give a more precise number of Trayvon’s present location. This is urgent, since the last time the guy he watched got away. He pretends that it was the same arrested a couple of days later, but would he have been able to tell, was there a mugshot, did he ever give a precise description? I doubt. Fact is somebody else stole his show. Horror of horror, someone got somebody else arrested he could have handed over to police, had they only been faster. If they would contact him immediately and force him to call back again quite possibly having a busy line, that would save time.
And this is exactly why he would have never gone anywhere to choose a number somewhere else arbitrarily.
What if the route he discribes isn’t the route he chased or the route Trayvon took?
If the route he took indeed differed that would resolve some of the timing problems, with Trayvon, as DeeDee suggest indeed almost back to the house. Notice what the backsliding doors trigger in GZ’s mind. The problem we have for this scenario is that the witness who thought she noticed a chase from down there did not wear her contacts. We have an additional problem, Dee says he did not run anymore, shortly before the confrontation.
Let’s look at the evidence, the Toyota keys were found at the T-section. After the shot he went there, unfortunately according to witnesses not back to the same spot as the one he gives in the reenactment. Why does he move in that direction?
Odd pieces of the puzzle: GZ during one of his interviews calls Twin Trees Lane a cut through too. But I never really concentrated on that, and it may well a blind end/impasse.
Now I definitively shut up, and grate on folks nerves. I promise. 😉
Semantics. Sequence is what is important. The dispatcher knew that GZ was running behind Trayvon and was no longer in his car. He did not ask GZ “Where are you now?” He asked where GZ was parked because he wanted GZ to return to his vehicle and wait there for the cops. IMPORTANT: When GZ said he didn’t know the address, the dispatcher GAVE HIM AN ALTERNATIVE; i.e., meet them at the mailboxes.
It was GZ who did not want that alternative. IMO, the prosecution should call Sean the dispatcher as a witness to flesh-out why he agreed to GZ’s alternative. My guess is because GZ said “he ran” giving Sean reasonable belief that GZ had given up the chase.
notice also, from GZ’s perspective including his intentions to give a more precise number of his location, that address would have been equally arbitrary as the one he wants us to believe he looked for.
I never keep my promises, look below, but now I’ll definitively return to my work.
I love the team spirit! Also love you and Dave for taking so much time to “educate” others in simple, understandable ways. Thank you, LLMPapa.
@grahase, you are correct in that Marinade Dave was the one who Judge Strickland got removed from the CA case, for communicating with him about the case. what he did was nothing like what O’Money is doing in this case. SMH
@LLMPAPA, Zimmerman is indeed “LYING” about this whole incident and, one of the sad things about this besides an “INNOCENT” kid loosing his life is the fact that he has others lying for him including some in LE. it’s also a sad fact that he also have people supporting him as well. I love your videos and I also appreciate what you are doing in standing with us in our quest to get justice for Trayvon Benjamin Martin and his family. may GOD bless you as well as professor Leatherman. Lady
@Everyone I asked Mr.Knechel to please visit site, so he can get a feel of our discussion and suggestions of the proposed video. We need a short concise title so we can refer to when we are talking. How about Trayvon Martin Walk Video until Mr. Knechel comes up with something better. or for short TMWV. or whatever you guys think is best.
@Brown:
“Trayvon’s Last Walk … “
Yep. That’s got my vote.
I vote in.
Better shorter to the point , I like the intials, but ever so sad.
: ^ (
Good one.
You guys are all awesome, by the way!
When I looked at the video, LLMPapa came to mind. He did a video entitled – The Tag – on November 5th.
We have not yet learned where the vehicle GZ was using was parked. In fact, there are two vehicles identified that night – Zimmermans and another with private plates.
No report from the officer identifying the vehicles or locations.
LLMPapa did another video on September 29th entitled – Who Did He Call.
Put the 3 videos together and tell me what you think.
I don’t understand his shift from officer Mead to the car report. Am I understanding correctly that after whoever gives the tag, the other side answers: Zimmerman. What source is this based on?
This is in evidence.
I guess it is, but is this officer Meat calling and asking for the owner of the car according to the tag he gives her?
I completely missed this. It happens on the same night?
sorry the man spells Mead. 😉 ashamed
Leander – Yes – Mead arrives at the scene and is checking out the cars in the vicinity. He finds 2 and asks to check the tags. One comes back Zimmerman and the other is a private plate.
Grahase, I had hard that both plates came back Zimmerman, is that confirmed false?
@Tzar
Yes, it’s in the documents, both vehicles confirmed registered to the Zimmermans.
I feel bad now because only last week I placed a big Christmas order with Amazon. Had I only waited.
no worries, how about a nice thanksgiving center piece?
Sorry, Brown. We had our Canadian Thanksgiving on October 8th this year. I will come up with something though. It is still early.
Damn those Canadians always a step ahead of us!
LOL
: ^ )
It is different only because of the earlier harvest up here. Thanksgiving comes from different origins up here. So, it has evolved to a celebration of the harvest.
But, I could always go for a second feast. Grand Forks, North Dakota is only a couple hours drive from here. Yum.m.m.
: ^ ))))
Another good video with time stamps… it’s 25:49 though http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHyIpO43NRg&feature=plcp
Thanks, Marshalette, this is a very, very good idea. I like Teeslaw too. He focuses on many things on my mind. Haven’t looked for his work for quite some time.
I am still obsessed with this: Who is the guy, next to him in the car, that makes him stop with the wife narrative at Taaffe’s house, and it feels, calms him down quite a bit. I am still wondering. Also always appreciated if music is used that does force me to go through hurdles due to copyright laws over here. Dave’s video was fine too in this context.
that does not force me
actually
I agree.. it does sound like someone else is there…
Also, maybe Dave Knechel could jog from the point Zimmerman says, “He’s running” until the point when the dispatcher says, “Are you following him” and George says “Yeah” while out of breathe followed by “We don’t need you to do that” and “Ok” to see the difference in time that makes compared to walking the entire video… but, it probably will not make a huge difference!
sorry, I missed the preview to check how long my lines can be.
Serino had asked him to show up to do the “video recreation” which was not in fact a video re-enactment. (If it were he’d have had to park, get out of a car with his gun on, walk around, show where he was when he got bonked in the nose, then FALL on the ground, show how he shimmied, show how his jacket came up and he pulled the gun and shot. That was no re-enactment; it was a narration. “Then I did this then I did that then he then I then then then so yeah, like that, yeah.”
Marshalette, I didn’t express myself well, additionally left something out. It’s absolutely impossible you could understand.
This is one of the passages that haunts me. Zimmerman has just finished recounting his tale of his 911 call on 2, Feb. 2012 and of the events at Taaffe’s house, that is he grounds his tale in verifiable police records:
******************************************************************
About 2:10
GZ: … I passed him and he kept staring at me. Staring around, looking around to see who else was [interrupting himself, realizing it’s too much?] I don’t know why, he was walking [George points his arm forward, as if to suggest to the driver to move on]
Driver: Did he walk off from there, or did he stop there last night?
GZ: (raised voice) He stopped, and looked around that’s what threw me off….
******************************************************************
Do you understand what exactly he says at 2:18, I put the passage in italics. Notice he lowers his voice after he interrupts himself realizing he has to take care not to make is tale to colorful or add something he cannot know. The “I don’t know why”, that immediately follows is like a self-censorship, he was close to putting something in Trayvon head, he was going to suggest Trayvon was checking if anybody else was watching him.
Now something interesting happens, he directs the driver to move on with his arm. Notice what follows. And notice what result the question has on George’s voice. His insecurity is gone.
This passage puzzles me. Can you understand? Who is this man, and is what he does routine during a reenactment?
GET OUT OF MY HEAD
great pickup, I noticed EVERYTHING you mentioned a while back, glad I am not the only one
to answer your question the conversation sounds as if
1. it was COMPLETELY scripted
2. was just recently REHEARSED
3. George got nervous and would not commit to the script and ole’ buddy there, his job was to coral/keep George back on the script and that he did. (with the question you mentioned)
3a. Here is the weird part and the speculation why I think George sounded more confident answering his question (or rather completing the thought he would not commit to just a few seconds prior), ole buddy gave him a reassuring facial cue, off camera, to keep going or stay on script, probably a head nod or a “keep going” stare.
He helps George out in other spots of the video too, most importantly, it seems to me that GZ would have reenacted the entire fight right at the T, until ole buddy reminded him how far southernly Trayvon “must” have approached him from. http://i.imgur.com/M0fjU.png
My other speculation and this is a shocker: GZ ain’t wrapped too tight. Seriously his cognitive constitution leaves much to be desired.
GZ is a typical, compulsive liar. Chances are that Osterman told him some things he should not say such as “follow,”and “run.” GZ was trying to think as he went along, incorporating lies where he knew the truth was not to his benefit, which made his re-enactment a con job. It didn’t agree with his NEN call, it didn’t agree with the crime scene location, and it didn’t agree with what he had told Singleton.
Thanks, Tzar, it’s reassuring that you felt the same. He could have been told at that point in time, who Trayvon was. That he lived in the community. When was it on the news in Sanford?
Xena, I would need to go into depth to explain why I consider it unlikely that GZ did anything beyond using Osterman for reassurance, essentially telling him the same story he had already written down and told Singleton. As a former police officer he was a good listener to recount the story and listen to him carefully. I even doubt he told his father.
I think he used his family to stabilize his tale the way Malisha suggests somewhere else he kept repeating it to himself, more and more believing it himself in the process.
Actually I wanted to write this:
As a former police officer he was a good listener to recount the story and watch his reactions carefully.
I think people that have manipulative tendencies, as the story with his co-worker suggests, must watch people closely. It tells them, what works and what doesn’t.
A couple of more points, Tzar. And that I really have to shut up for today.
Concerning 3, if are suggesting that the scenario we watch was scripted and agreed on both sides. Not sure how to put it, this wouldn’t have happened. GZ wouldn’t have made that mistake, he would have been much more sure about what he had to say, to start with.
What it signals though, is that his story had support inside SPD. If it had been a SYG case it would have saved much time, trouble and thus money. This officer obviously supports his tale, maybe Serino too, and he indeed only surrendered to the pressure of his black colleagues who he gives quite a bit of dirt on in his FBI interview. I almost forgot.
Who many are involved? How exactly is the video created? From the backseat or is there a camera inside the car. Singleton and Serino seem to be in the car in front. I haven’t looked at it from that perspective.
Wouldn’t it have been the rational choice to pick Singleton to accompany GZ and drive the car, she was the one that interviewed him the night before, or the one most familiar with his story. Why didn’t this happen?
What would be the usual routines of setting up the scenario, who decided about whom to put next to GZ? Could this be some type of superior of Serino who got himself involved or was invited into the scene by Serino? Had he to be invited in since he is the SPD expert on this type of procedures?
Leander22 says : “Concerning 3, if are suggesting that the scenario we watch was scripted and agreed on both sides. Not sure how to put it, this wouldn’t have happened. GZ wouldn’t have made that mistake, he would have been much more sure about what he had to say, to start with.”
IMO, I don’t think GZ’s brain works too well
“Wouldn’t it have been the rational choice to pick Singleton to accompany GZ and drive the car, she was the one that interviewed him the night before, or the one most familiar with his story. Why didn’t this happen?”
Great point Leander22
that completely went under my radar
This is what I have so far. Video starts at front gate pan to keypad enter gate walk thru to mailshed, while walking view of clubhouse and surroundings. Then what?
Brown, I think that is the most important thing; i.e., to see Trayvon’s route from the mail shed to the T and how that applies to the clubhouse. That way too, we can understand the clubhouse videos better.
yes Xena.
In following this case, I am beginning to suspect that new and potentially game changing systems are being developed to provide witness and data to prosecutors which has previously been unavailable to them.. and I’m beginning to question whether that’s necessarily a good thing.
In the same way that the available technology is beginning to destroy NFL games, now that stop-motion slowmo shots are splitting the most barely visible of hairs regarding catches, interceptions and off-sides decisions.
I’m not so sure that the game has been improved with this technology and it’s use, and growing dependance and yet I’m sure that we all THOUGHT it would be a good thing – to be absolutely SURE.. y’know?
The idea that now literally thousands of “interested” persons and parties can be brought together to examine, detail, debunk and confirm allegations is way different from the days of simply having the prosecutor’s office, the cops, or a defendant’s lawyer with maybe a private eye to help… and they had to gather all of the evidence between them.
But now, with the flood of self-based technologies like mobile phone cameras, audio recordings, DNA, audio and video enhancement techniques, a case such as this one can very possibly begin to drown in it’s own minutia. Is this video recreation allowable in either prosecution or defence? If so, how many of us can make our own variations, walking, perhaps, slightly faster (or slower) and how many of THEM will be admissible.
At what point do we remove the “walks/talks/looks like a duck – must be a duck” logic that has prevailed in our courtrooms for centuries and replace it with a lengthy examination of the minutia of the duck’s ancestry in an attempt to prove that, since it was once an interbreed with a swan.. it’s no longer a duck…
maybe it’s just me that is concerned about the Pandora effect, but the more I read about Geogieboy and the apparent legions of folks who have essentially volunteered their time/effort/energy and even money to examine, discover and, possibly, even create “evidence” – the more aware I become that it’s no longer one man and his lawyer against a state prosecutor and his (legally restricted) tools…
and as much as I would PERSONALLY like to see this smarmy cop-wannabe get his just desserts, I’d like it to be done both justly AND FAIRLY.
thoughts?
Remember, we don’t have to come up with “what actually happened that night.”
All we have to do is show (as is already 99% shown) what could NOT have happened that night. In physical reality.
Okie dokie
follow
The correct spelling is Knechel…
thanks, mainstreamfair
: ^ ))
Yikes!
Thanks.
Pronounced neck-el
Ooops… only read this too late!
Dear Mr. Leatherman, thank you so much for putting up a post with the video. But that is not the video I requested. I am so sorry for getting people a little confused here, so let me clarify.
On a previous thread, Xena posted this particular video by Mr. Kenchel. We were discussing the video an how simple he made it for us to understand timing and distance. I wrote to her stating that GZ gets all the videos made of his movements but not Trayvon Martin. Such as his walk from the 7-11. Him entering the front gate or cut thru then to the mailshed. For our discussion, we need an independent person like Mr. Kenchel to make a video of TRAYVON MARTIN movements.
It came to me that I should ask him and so I did. He happily replied that he would do it. A video per se from TM point of view. I came back to report the great news. He will undertake the job at no cost, he only requested to visit his page and maybe buy something from his the advertisers on his page.
I have requested from my fellow bloggers, what should be in the video, so not one minute of Mr. Kenchel time is not wasted. I’m requesting the most vital landmarks so he can film them, such as the mailshed.
I am so sorry for any confusion I may have caused.
Thanks in advance
BlushBrown
No problem. I understood all of that, except that Xena posted the video (I thought you did), and I’m looking forward to posting the video when he gets it done.
Sorry, Xena. I will correct the article to credit you for posting it.
Many thanks to both of you.
Also, I gather the correct spelling is Kenchel?
Can you provide a link to his website?
Yes I can. He also said he would have to possibly break up the video in parts if I wanted the film to start from the 7-11, I am now reconsidering that. We know that route and timing. Whats more important is the complex.
here is his blog
http://marinadedave.blogspot.com/
thanks
Brown
He also has a youtube channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/marinadedave
Isnt marinadedave the person who communicated with Judge Strickland in the Anthony case and Strickland had to recuse himself because of it. marinadedave is a great guy folks. Check him out.
Thanks Brown, Xena, Marinade Dave is great, he also has the advantage to live close by, as far as I remember. I was absolutely pleased about his photos when I started to look into the case.
Strictly I can understand the intention of his video. Why should you take anything GZ says at face value. But yes, somehow one would expect GZ to get to the back gate as fast as possible considering he supected the suspect” was going to leave there again, since he was “discovered”. But wasn’t the back gate closed at the time? Somewhere I read they closed it at 7 pm.
The problem with the car scenario is how to explain the background noises on his 911 call?
Admittedly I always wondered if his car was were it was, but on the other hand didn’t he have to be very careful to construct his story pretty close to the facts. What if someone on RTL knew him and his car and saw it elsewhere?
Strictly Brown, one thing I would be interested in, although it does not matter in our context. The space behind Taaffe’s house isn’t walled in. Are there similar open spaces in all four corners. It would make no sense to me considering it is called a gated community. On the other hand it would safe money, compare the back sliding doors on the premises that surface in the burglary reports.
grahase
good points.
I personally want to stay as close to TM footsteps as possible. It would be extremely helpful to know about all the four corners as you put it, but we need a POV from TM, as far as what the evidence to date states. DeeDee saying he was at the mailshed. TM walking towards his Dad’s house. We need to see what he saw. We have seen a thousand videos of that damn T with GZ. We need to see the mailshed and surrounding areas from his point of view. I am just so sick and tired of every video counting every freakin moment of GZ that I want to scream. I have had enough of him to make me Stand MY Ground!! I need to see that young mans view!!!
End rant
So Sorry Grahase fingers took control
I feel better now, I will go and get some very important cleaning done before the holidays
Be back later
: ^ )))
By the way, I would like to add. When Malisha mentioned we should have an inquiry force on the ground. She will forgive me, if I misunderstood or read her incorrectly, I immediately thought of Marinade Dave.
Brown, you shouldn’t blame Grahase for my words.
I have stopped to look at the right-wing tales some time back. Maybe I should keep up with it, but I am old and it doesn’t do me any good to realize the “seed” may be still out there and even a non-negligible force. …
Sorry, I didn’t want to bother you. As I said it’s not important.
: ^ ))))
blog friends (hands shaking)
No problem Professor. No personal credit for me is necessary. I believe we work together as a team.
@grahase, you are correct in that Marinade Dave was the one who Judge Strickland got removed from the CA case, for communicating with him about the case. what he did was nothing like what O’Money is doing in this case. SMH
Yes Leander – Check out the aerial view and you will see all the openings to walk through and enter the building.
brown – got your ant and all. Totally understand your purpose. However, one needs to have a clear understanding of the lay of the land. There are open spaces other than the one at Taaffes. GZ could have parked and ran through to head Trayvon off at the pass. Please do not deny other possibilities of Trayvon’s steps taken. I know you are working very hard on a theory. However, there is information needed that is not in discovery. Without all the facts, your quest will just be another theory. Sorry.
Thank you for your reply. Yes there must be some lay of the land. Granted. That is why we will take suggestions then we will sort it out. I only ask and limit to only TM possible pathways that can be corroborated by either by DEEDEE acct or by GZ. We will take GZ acct only because that’s all we got.
1. The front entrance
2. The cut thru from Frank Taaffe.
3. The most important view imo the mailshed.
4. Walk to the T on Twin Trees Lane
5. Suggestion from Whonoze the back entrance
So far this is what I have right off the top of my head. I haven’t checked emails, there are about two hundred right now, so I will keep adding.
But let me try again and explain. Its not for evidence its not for any theories I happen to be working on. I want to see what Trayvon Martin saw that evening. I want to see the mailshed, I want to see the clubhouse I want to see the back entrance. I want to see twin trees lane. I want to walk in his shoes if you will. Please understand my request for this video is to see what he saw. Like Mr. Knechel, its one thing to see a Bing map, or picture it is totally something else, when you film an area with a human being taking in signifigant shots of what Trayvon Martin viewed that evening before his was killed.
That’s what I find to be important also. The location of the mail shed and what Trayvon saw, might give us a clue as to whether Trayvon saw GZ watching him from where GZ said he parked in this re-enactment. Based on GZ’s NEN call, he says that Trayvon is staring at him “now” BEFORE he says that Trayvon was at the clubhouse coming towards him. Now, if GZ was parked at the clubhouse at the location he said in his re-enactment, I for one would like to see whether Trayvon had binocular eyeballs to, (what appears to be), stare around a corner at GZ.
Exactly Xena, the mailshed is the most important. IIRC DeeDee said he took shelter there and was there from 6:54 to the time GZ called NEN.
Fantastic work Brown. My Christmas list of what would be really helpful if Mr Kenchel could do it (note there is some overlap, i.e. he can kill 2 birds with one stone, so to speak, so it don´t think it is as much as it looks in the list):
1. Car and walk from Taffe´s house up to the clubhouse, round the corner down TTL up to where GZ claims he parked and Trayvon took the cut through.
2. Trayvon´s possible route on foot to the mailboxes via the path between the bushes on the corner of RVC with TTL.
3. Driving East along RVC looking right down TTL to the the mailboxes, to see how the theory GZ saw Trayvon for the first time at the mailboxes to see what kind of visibility there is considering all the bushes on that corner
4. the inverse of No 3, to ascertain visibility of the mailboxes in the other direction i.e. driving West on RVC and looking left down TTL to the mailboxes.
5. Driving in through the front gate looking down TTL to the mailboxes.
I do a lot of shopping at Amazon for Xmas (am an Amazon prime member) so if the UK Amazon is valid Mr Kenchel can certainly count on me.
thank you so much for your kind words.
I think I have to have Mr. Knechel visit here so he can read our posts and get a feel of what we are trying to acheive.
BRB
3, is a very good point, considering we have his 911 call. But notice, the guy next to GZ in the car at the reenactment offered him a chance to slip out of any timing effort really easily. He somehow suggests to him, didn’t he linger around there?
The bushes scenario GZ offers us could have the same source. If someone hides somewhere to attack someone, time passes.
I would like to see:
(1) Someone back out of the parking space at the clubhouse, where Zimmerman says he was parked, and drive to where he said he parked on Twin Trees.
(2) I’d like to see a video, beginning at the back of where Zimmerman says he was parked at the clubhouse, then walking all the way to the “T”.
I’d like to compare the times between 1 & 2 to see if it sheds any light on how Mr. Zimmerman claims, somehow, to have seen Trayvon at the “T” as he was parking on Twin Trees.
His excited utterance of “I SAW HIM” while pointing at the “T”, combined with “He looked back, saw me, and CUT back between the houses”, certainly leads to the conclusion that through some magical means, a 17 year old kid WALKED the same distance Zimmerman claims to have driven, PLUS 167 feet (from Zimmerman’s parking spot on Twin Trees to the “T”), and got there BEFORE George could drive it in a truck.
Inquiring minds just want to know, KWIM?
It is always a pleasure to see that big red heart of yours on this page. Thanks for your input.
Papa, can you or anyone explain HOW Zimmerman “saw” Trayvon running off to turn down the dog walk on that dark and stormy night, when it was so dark he said he feared going back to his truck because his big flashlight (bang, bang, thwack!) wouldn;t work? I was startled to see Zimmerman, on the road, point out to the detective where Trayvon ran off (later described as “skipped”) without the detective asking “How much could you see that night?”
@ Brown….I don’t know if this has been addressed (I apologize if it is a redundant question) but, are Trayvon’s phone records available so that we would see 1) at what time he began his phone calls to DeeDee…2) at what time his last call to her was cut off. Does she mention where he was located when they began their phone conversation? BTW…This has nothing to do with “pings”..lol……just a timeline according to his phone records and the times that they were cut-off, perhaps matching her statement with those final cutoffs and his location and the phone record times (and the minutes/seconds of each call + the time between each call that was dropped.)
I have a copy of Trayvon’s phone log that Tracy obtained and submitted to attorney Crump. It’s in pdf. If you want, register with http://groups.yahoo.com/group/blackbutterfly768 and I’ll download the phone log in files or email to you. You will also be able to access other discovery and court docs that are on that site. Sorry, but I haven’t uploaded current court docs — been sending via email instead to group members.
I think Xena replied I hope she did, still working on waking up haven’t had my 3 rd cup of coffe yet ; ^ )
I don’t get it. What’s the point?
I think I confused some people will clarify in a moment.
@Whonoze – I’m not sure but I think it is to say that there was different intent by driving around in the car to see if he could see Trayvon than by getting out and actually following on foot. In other words, by getting out and following, he was not just trying to see where Trayvon went, there was intent to confront, detain or whatever, while if he would have stayed in his car, it would have been merely for the sake of observation. And since it takes the same time to go from one end to the other by foot as it did to drive around to the other end, there was no reason or need to get out of his vehicle unless it was for. . .?
good points…
I dont think GZ ever parked where he says he did. With Shellie moving the vehicle, the only way we would know would be from Officer Meads statement. He checks the plates and one of the 2 vehicles is identified as Zimmermans. However, the tape with him talking to despatch doesnt tell us where the vehicle was parked. Officer Meads statement does not include that portion of his activities during the investigation. Please see below.
grahase
I was under the impression that both vehicles came back to the Zimm’s
So you’re saying he had a vehicle at both ends and he ferrited him out on foot?
Not me. I just don’t think he parked where he said he did. I think he saw the direction Trayvon was running and decided GZ drove to head him off at the pass. The result is the altercation moving in the north to south direction.
@Rachael. I agree. It does address intent.
I’m reading into the video this…What sense does it make to park your car and get out in the rain to walk and get an address for SPD? Most people would just drive around the block. I know I would.
Yep, unless you are hunting for a person on the move in an area where you vehicle will not go and you are not interested in getting an address.
I agree Rachael, GZ was on foot to prevent another “asshole” getting away, any desire he had to “observe” went up in smoke on realizing yet another “suspect” was about to escape through the back gate before the police arrived.
But could it also be, as some suggest, that it was not his only reason for taking up the chase on foot and that there were two cars (GZ/Shellie´s & Osterman´s) or simply GZ´s car with Shellie and/or Osterman so GZ on foot while someone else drove the car Knechel´s route to the back gate to get an overall view of dog walk and RVC exits to cut off any escape.
Could the second car, Osterman, etc. creating a pinzer be connected with the car key found near the T. I don´t know, but what anyone else says I hear clearly hear GZ saying on the NEN, “the keys are in my truck”, and why would he leave his truck alone with keys unless he left someone else there. And could Osterman have heard/seen the shot and dropping the key at the T beat the hell out of that area, with Shellie, to not be implicated. I also swear I hear clearly GZ say in an interview at the station, “She (Shelly) told Mark who was there” and not “called” as is the another theory. And some have found a second car pulling alongside GZ´s at the clubhouse although others say he never stopped there. Gosh, it ain´t ´alf complicated, isn´t it…!
Sorry for all the errors Rachael. Got a bit carried away!
follow
follow