The Orlando Sentinel is reporting today that three more witnesses have changed their stories in the Zimmerman case.
Witness 2
She originally told the police she saw one person chasing another person, who was about 10-12 feet ahead, up the sidewalk between townhomes in the direction of the T-intersection with another sidewalk that connects Twin Trees Street with Retreat View Circle (this is very close to the location where Zimmerman shot Martin). She now says that she only saw one person running. She originally said she could not identify either individual because it was dark and she had taken her contacts out before it happened. That part of her story remains the same.
She changed her story when John Batchelor of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement interviewed her on March 20th.
Witness 12
Witness 12 is a young mother who did not give a recorded statement to the Sanford Police. The Orlando Sentinel reports,
During that session [with an investigator of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement on 3/20/2012 when she gave her first recorded statement], she said she saw two people on the ground immediately after the shooting and was not sure who was on top, Zimmerman or Trayvon.
“I don’t know which one. … All I saw when they were on the ground was dark colors,” she said.
Six days later, however, she was sure: It was Zimmerman on top, she told trial prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda during a 2 1/2-minute recorded session.
Since she saw the two individuals after the shot was fired, and we know that Trayvon Martin was shot, we can infer that she must be right. Zimmerman was on top.
She explained that the person on top was definitely bigger than the person on the bottom and when she saw pictures of them on TV after the shooting, she realized Zimmerman was the guy on top because he is much bigger than Martin (he’s 2 inches shorter but 42 lbs heavier).
Witness 13
Witness 13 did not so much change his story as provide added detail. He originally to the police that he went outside his townhome when he heard a shot and saw Zimmerman standing there “with blood on the back of his head.”
Zimmerman told him that Trayvon “was beating up on me, so I had to shoot him,” the witness told Serino. The Neighborhood Watch captain then asked the witness to call his wife, Shellie Zimmerman, and tell her what happened.
In two subsequent interviews about a month later — one with an FDLE investigator and one with de la Rionda — the witness described Zimmerman’s demeanor in greater detail, adding that he spoke as if the shooting were no big deal.
Zimmerman’s tone, the witness said, was “not like ‘I can’t believe I just shot someone!’ it was more like, ‘Just tell my wife I shot somebody…’ like it was nothing.”
Witness 6
I have already reported on Witness 6 who changed his story from Trayvon Martin “just throwing down blows on the guy, MMA-style,” which is mixed martial arts, to it looked like a wrestling match with Trayvon attempting to restrain or pin down Zimmerman, who was below him. He also changed his story from Zimmerman calling for help to not being certain who was calling for help because he could not see their mouths in the dark.
What does this mean?
Witness 6 is the only person who claimed to have seen Zimmerman calling for help, other than Zimmerman, of course. Other witnesses say it sounded like a young boy pleading for help.
He also is the only witness who supported Zimmerman’s claim that Trayvon was hitting him, although Zimmerman mostly claimed that Trayvon was bashing his head against the sidewalk.
Witness 6’s recantation hurts Zimmerman’s case badly.
Witness 12’s identification of Zimmerman being on top after the shot hurts Zimmerman because he told the police was on the bottom fighting for his life when he shot Trayvon.
Another witness, who saw the shooting from her upstairs bedroom, said the heavier built man was on top when the shot was fired and he stood up and walked 10 -20 feet away after the shot. She is one of several witnesses who say that the cries for help were uttered by the boy, not the heavier built man.
Definitely looks like Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense is evaporating.
What Will The Defense Do?
Defense counsel can confront each witness with their earlier statement and argue that law enforcement improperly influenced them to change their testimony. Maybe they did and maybe they did not, but I imagine they are going to claim otherwise and the emerging forensic evidence is not consistent with self-defense, as I predicted it would not be.
If any member of law enforcement was improperly influencing witnesses it was Sanford PD’s Chris Serino, who was telling witnesses that Zimmerman was the person calling for help. To give him the benefit of the doubt, he probably was relying on Witness 6’s statement, but that was extremely unprofessional.
Now that Witness 6 has recanted that part of his testimony, no one except Zimmerman is claiming that he was the person shouting for help.
Stay tuned.
EDIT: In the section titled, What does this mean, I changed Witness 2’s to Witness 12’s “identification of Zimmerman being on top after the shot hurts Zimmerman because he told the police was on the bottom fighting for his life when he shot Trayvon.” I corrected my error.
Frederick Leatherman Law Blog 
@JD nice breakdown
The Grio claims an unknown sources told them Wolfinger met with Bill Lee the night of the shooting, and Wolfinger gave a vociferous non-denial denial to refute it. Until and unless there is a credible investigation into Norm Wolfinger’s actions in this case, we likely won’t know what really happened. Wolfinger himself quietly announced his retirement after his current term expires. The DoJ is NOT focusing on this aspect of the case, and instead is only looking into the idea that GZ may or may not have violated TM’s civil rights. The special prosecutor needs the cooperation of Sanford PD to make her case and so is not motivated to look askance at her gift horse, the original (shoddy) investigation.
Most important to the witness statements is the seeming consensus that the altercation started at point A and moved to point B. Point B we know to be the location of the body and where GZ was found close to it by Sanford PD officer Timothy Smith.
aside: Witness 12 took cell phone pictures of GZ before the cop arrived, and in the photo GZ is talking on his own cell, apparently. Someone moved his vehicle before police determined it was involved. (I think it’s obvious from the timing that GZ’s car CHASED TM down TTL, but that’s another subject.)
Point A seems to be up near the T intersection.
Here is my own defacto evidence map that shows the spread some 40 feet from the T down to “John’s” back yard. All of TM’s evidence is far south of the cut through. GZ’s evidence starts 8 feet from the T and leads to the body, about 40 feet away. This is a fight that moved, and not while two people were on the ground.
http://tinyurl.com/7erbaub
I tend to think TM battered GZ somewhat and that John saw TM atop GZ near the end of the struggle. But more importantly, I think the fact that all of GZ’s surrogates describe a fight that did NOT move suggests that the omission is a deception on the part of GZ, covering his attempt to illegally detain TM. Proving this in court would be difficult for the prosecution if GZ has some innocent explanation for the travel from A to B, but I don’t think he does.
Here is Robert Zimmerman’s account of the fight, given to Sean Hannity, twice in one interview.
If Trayvon had put his hand over Zimmerman’s mouth then Zimmerman’s DNA should have been all over his hand. Saliva contains a large amount of DNA.
He did.
And there is more.
I live less than an hour from Sanford
The GOP Convention will be in Tampa the end of August.
Jeb Bush is the stealth candidate…….
Jeb Bush? Now that’s a scary thought.
I’m voting for Jill Stein.
Robert J. Zimmerman served as a Magistrate for the Supreme Court in Virginia.
I checked your link and the article describes the position of magistrate and its role in the state judicial system in somewhat more detail than my earlier response to you. They are appointed, not elected and they do not have the same powers that a judge has. They aren’t even called judges. They have limited authority and their basic function is to handle the minor litigation (not that anyone thinks their case is minor), both civil and criminal, to free up judges to handle and decide the tougher stuff. For example, in criminal cases, they cannot preside over felony trials, but they can decide whether to release on bail a person charged with a felony. They also can issue search warrants and they can review the paperwork provided by the police for probable cause in support of a recent felony arrest.
They work in judicial districts within state counties and they don’t get paid as much as judges.
IIRC, he was a magistrate in Fairfax County, Virginia.
The Virginia Supreme Court is the highest appellate court in the state. The Court of Appeals sits below it and all of the trial courts are below it.
In other words, he was not a magistrate on the state supreme court.
That does not mean, however, that he lacked power and influence to intercede on behalf of his son. As you have pointed out he knew the state prosecutor in Seminole County and he apparently used that relationship to persuade the prosecutor to visit the crime scene and involve himself in the case before the Sanford Police Department filed the Capias Request.
That sort of involvement is extremely unusual. As the elected head of the State’s Attorney’s Office in Seminole County, his primary job is to work as a policy setter, administrator and supervisor of all of the prosecutors, investigators and support staff working in his office. In large cities, for example, the State’s Attorney probably would be too busy with those duties to ever try a case.
It is not unusual for trial deputies, or prosecutors who try cases, especially violent crimes and homicides, to visit crime scenes to get a better understanding of police procedures and forensic crime scene investigations. They also occasionally make recommendations to the investigators regarding what they need to do to put together a case against a suspect. Nevertheless, their primary job is to screen cases for the sufficiency of the evidence, obtain indictments from grand juries and try cases.
The police have authority to arrest a suspect for a felony, if they have probable cause to believe the suspect committed a particular felony or felonies. They do not have the authority to charge a suspect with a felony. Instead, they investigate cases and when they complete their investigation they decide whether to pursue the matter further or release the suspect without charge.
If they decide to pursue the matter, they put together a formal written request supported by all of the investigation reports, witness statements and forensic reports and they present the whole package to the prosecutor’s office to review. In Florida, they call this a Capias Request.
Prosecutors review it and decide whether to grant the Capias Request and seek a grand jury indictment, reject the Capias Request thereby declining to pursue the matter further, or they may return the case to the referral agency and ask them to conduct more investigation. In this case, the Capias Request was denied.
That resulted in community, state, national, and worldwide condemnation. You know the rest of the story.
Quite apart from the ongoing prosecution of George Zimmerman, is the question of whether the State Prosecutor improperly sought to interfere in the police investigation and steer it away from filing a Capias Request. If he did, he did not succeed because the Sanford Police Department filed the Capias Request and asked the State Prosecutor to seek a grand jury indictment for negligent homicide.
Another question is whether he abused his authority as a State Prosecutor to refuse a legitimate Capias Request.
He could lose his job via impeachment by the state legislature and his bar license, if he did either or both of those things.
That’s where your investigation comes in.
Speaking as a former attorney who knows something about these matters and how state bar associations are loathe to investigate and discipline their own members, especially prosecutors, you are probably going to need an inside source in the police department and the prosecutor’s office to get the bar association to do its job.
Keep in mind that the United States Supreme Court ruled last year that prosecutors have absolute immunity from civil lawsuits for damages, even if they deliberately hide exculpatory evidence from defense counsel, fabricate evidence against innocent defendants and suborn perjury from witnesses to convict innocent people. Bar associations still have the power to discipline their members, including prosecutors, for violating their ethical rules and state laws. The problem is they rarely do it.
This case may turn out to be be the reverse side of that coin, if Zimmerman is convicted. Whether the Florida Bar Association will take action remains to be seen.
And there you have it: another blog in a comment.
Re the Vietnam connection – a quick search indicates the breakthrough news that they both served in Vietnam. Needless to say, that hardly means “together”. Evidence of their togetherness is not getting kicked back by Google, which is a bit of a disappointment considering the number of bloggers looking for it. My guess is Snopes would score this as ‘false’, but I would be fascinated to see more.
Re my claim that Zimmerman claimed that Martin tried to choke him: that was a bit of a word retrieval fail by me, since a better word would have been ‘smothered’.
Obviously we don’t have Zimmerman’s direct statement, but here is one leak from the OS:
“One of those inconsistencies: Zimmerman told police Trayvon had his hand over Zimmerman’s mouth during their fight on the night he shot Trayvon.
The Sentinel’s source confirmed that Zimmerman’s statements include that allegation. But authorities do not believe that happened, the source told the Sentinel, because on one 911 call, someone can be heard screaming for help. If it were Zimmerman, as he claims, his cries were not muffled, the source said.
…[at the bond hearing] Gilbreath also testified briefly about Zimmerman telling police that Trayvon had his hand over Zimmerman’s mouth during the fight.”
And from Mr. Martin’s version (Reuters) of what the police told him:
“”Zimmerman starts to reach into his pocket to get his cellphone, and at that point Trayvon attacked him. He says Trayvon hits him. He falls on the ground. Trayvon jumps on top of him, takes his left hand and covers Zimmerman’s mouth and tells him to shut the F up and continues to pound on him.”
Well – if Martin did have his hand over Zimmerman’s mouth, was Martin also screaming in pain and fear? Or was the smothering intermittent, as Zimmerman wriggled around?
And why try to keep a hand over a guy’s mouth when a direct chokehold ought to be roughly as quick and decisive and (I would think) easier to maintain.
Be that as it may, a smothering attempt would be consistent with the revised ‘John’ version.
As to the person who “saw the shooting from her upstairs bedroom, said the heavier built man was on top when the shot was fired and he stood up and walked 10 -20 feet away after the shot.” – That is Anderson Cooper’s mystery witness, witness 12.
Jeralyn Merritt did an excellent deconstruction of her contamination as a witness. In her fourteen minute 911 call, she hears a shot in the first few seconds, can’t see much of anything, and refers repeatedly to having heard two *men* shouting, screaming and so on.
But a month later she is sure that the smaller one (that would be the 6 footer in the dark hoody lying on the ground in the dark) was just a boy. That is surely not what she reported that night.
And her written statement is dated March 16, three weeks after the shooting.
If the prosecution is seriously hanging their hat on her, well, good luck to them.
Yeah, but Zimmerman’s story makes no sense. He would have us believe that Trayvon eluded him, but all of a sudden for no apparent reason, he decides to go find Zimmerman, confront him, and sucker punch him in the nose while he’s talking to his girlfriend.
I don’t buy it.
And if someone put his hand over my mouth, I’d bite the hell out of him.
Think about it for a second. Trayvon has one hand covering Zimmerman’s mouth, which leaves Zimmerman with two free hands and a 42 pound weight advantage.
He could have tossed him aside like last week’s leftovers.
I don’t believe a word the guy says.
Listen to Trayvon’s girl friend’s statement. She states that Trayvon was “right by his father’s house”. Then two minutes went by and the confrontation started. So how did Trayvon get from “right by his father’s house” to 70 yards away, where he died? Did Zimmerman chase him that far? (Doubtful) Or did Trayvon double back and confront the stranger that was following him?
Good question, but why would Trayvon run away from Zimmerman and successfully elude him, only to double back and confront him from behind as Zimmerman was walking back to his vehicle?
That makes absolutely no sense to me.
Plus, he was talking to his girlfriend on his cell phone.
We know Zimmerman set out to find him after Trayvon ran away because he acknowledged that to the dispatcher.
Although we know the dispatcher told him not to do that and he said “OK,” we only have his word for it that he broke off the chase and immediately headed back toward his vehicle.
I don’t believe him because, after he said, “OK,” he did not suggest a meeting place or tell the dispatcher where he was parked or describe his vehicle. Instead, he said tell the officer en route to call me on my cell phone when he gets to the neighborhood and I will direct him from there. That sure sounds to me lik he intended to be on the move.
And where and why would he be moving unless it was to attempt to find Trayvon, whom he said was headed toward the back entrance of the neighborhood? That entrance, by the way, is across the street from where he was staying.
Therefore, he would have headed toward the back entrance hoping to find Trayvon.
If, as you say, Trayvon had already made it back to the place where he was staying, but was still outside talking to his girlfriend, it’s likely Zimmerman would have found him.
Now, we all want to know what happened next. Who confronted whom?
Zimmerman has a big problem though, because he did not say that he continued looking for Trayvon and found him down by the house where Trayvon was staying. Of course, he did not know he was staying there at the time. Instead of admitting that he followed him, despite the dispatcher’s request not to do so, he lied and said Trayvon confronted him on his way back to his car.
Why would he lie about that, unless he confronted Trayvon, attempted to restrain him, Trayvon resisted, and he shot and killed him.
Apparently, he concluded it was necessary to change the story in order to make it look like he had no choice but to kill Trayvon in order to prevent Trayvon from killing him.
Since the shooting took place approximately 70 yards back up the sidewalk between the townhomes, almost to the T intersection that connects Twin Trees to Retreat vie Circle, the next question is how did they get there? Who was chasing whom?
Again, assuming there were a chase, then it’s clear that Zimmerman also misled and attempted to conceal that information from the police.
Why would he do that, unless he was the aggressor chasing Trayvon?
We don’t have the full story yet and maybe we never will, but based on what I now know about this case, I don’t believe Zimmerman is credible.
If the members of the jury reach the same conclusion, they will convict Zimmerman of second degree murder.
Yet another blog in a comment.
There’s no reply button on Antimedia but this is for them
” She states that Trayvon was “right by his father’s house””
As someone who doesn’t drive I say I’m right by my house when I’m ten minutes away from it all the time. Saying you’re right by it doesn’t mean you’re on the doorstep
q>If any member of law enforcement was improperly influencing witnesses it was Sanford PD’s Chris Serino, who was telling witnesses that Zimmerman was the person calling for help.
However, Serino did initially recommend charging Zimmerman only to be overruled by Wolfinger.
George’s paternal grandfather, Robert W. Zimmerman was a US diplomat and ended his career with the CIA. Robert J. Zimmerman, George’s father, served with Wolfinger in Viet Nam.
And I have further documentation that the Zimmermans and the Wolfingers were neighbors in Easton, PA.
In view of this, I would tend to think Wolfinger did not base his decision not to charge Zimmerman on the basis of lack of evidence.
Do you believe that Serino then began his campaign to duly influence witnesses before or after Wolfinger’s decision?
Nice work, I did not know about the background Wolfinger connection.
I will have to go back and check, but I’m pretty sure Serino started telling witnesses the day after the shooting that they (i.e., law enforcement) had determined Zimmerman was the person screaming for help.
I don’t know when Wolfinger actually made his decision, as opposed to the official announcement, but the Sanford PD Capias Request was filed March 13, 2012. A Capias Request is a formal request by the investigating agency to the State’s Attorney to charge a suspect with a particular crime, in this case it was negligent homicide. Wolfinger’s formal announcement would have been shortly after that.
Did you know that Wolfinger may have visited the crime scene on the night of the shooting?
Yes.
On February 26, the night Trayvon was shot and killed by the son of a retired state Supreme Court magistrate, Wolfinger drove some 50 miles to the crime scene and personally intervene in the case, which as a result remained effectively secluded from scrutiny for weeks.
The assigned local investigator, Detective Chris Serino, was reported ready to file an affidavit charging him with manslaughter when Wolfinger intervened to stop any proceedings.
http://www.insightoutnews.org/insights/trayvon-martin-case-original-state-attorney-wolfinger-has-troubled-history/
You might find the following interesting:
George’s grandfather was Robert W. Zimmerman. He had a career in US diplomacy travelling extensively before joining the CIA.
He married Silvia Brull, daughter of the well known Cuban poet who served as second in charge at the Cuban Embassy in Washington, D.C.
Robert W. Zimmerman was known for his elitist views
http://international.loc.gov/service/mss/mssmisc/mfdip/2005%20txt%20files/2004zim01.txt
George’s father, Robert J, Zimmerman retired from a 22 year career in military intel serving the last 10 years with the DOD at the Pentagon.
His mother, Gladys Cristina Mesa is not Peruvian but rather Catalan, and was of the “privileged’ class.
The family history helped me to understand the sociological origins of entitlement and superiority.
I live in the South, a region where it is difficult to overestimate the amount of corruption going on. One might say that it’s ubiquitous to the area.
Wolfinger never should have involved himself in any way with the Zimmerman case. The conflict of interest is glaring and I think he should lose his job and his bar card, if he went to the crime scene that night and used his authority to dump the case. That’s just egregious and inexcusable.
But, in the South, it’s SOP I’m sad to say.
Catalan is a province in Spain and Barcelona is the capitol, IIRC. Catalan is a mixture of Spanish and French. I’ve wanted to go there forever but haven’t made it yet.
BTW, according to what I’ve read, Zimmerman’s dad was a magistrate in Virginia. Magistrates are judges with limited power to preside over civil trials in cases where the damages claimed are below a certain limit. They also have authority to adjudicate traffic offenses and to set bail and accept guilty pleas in felony cases.
Are you sure he worked at the Supreme Court, because I have not seen that listed anywhere.
http://mindcontrolblackassassins.com/ yeah 99.99% would never believe it. why do you think there was so much media coverage? like our human interest made it an interesting story? no i think they make up our minds for us.
Zimmerman did not weight 42 pounds more than Martin. Martin weighed 158, and Zimmerman weighs 175. That’s less than 20 pounds. Zimmerman’s weight was not listed in the police report. The least you can do, if you’re going to argue against self defense, is get your facts straight.
Witness 6 has been unequivocal that Zimmerman was on the bottom. So has the 13 year old boy who witnessed part of the altercation. The policeman who was first to the scene reported that Zimmerman’s jacket was wet as if he had been laying on the ground. Zimmerman’s injuries are all consistent with his recitation of the events of that night.
Every witness that puts Zimmerman on top is reporting seeing that after the shooting, so it is not only not inconsistent with Zimmerman’s story, it’s exactly what Zimmerman said. After he shot Martin he didn’t know if he was hurt and got on top of him to prevent Martin from hurting him further. After he realized he wasn’t moving, he got up.
You’re a long, long ways from his claim of self defense “evaporating” except in a fantasy world where the facts are irrelevant.
Excuse me, but you are absolutely wrong. His weight is listed in the Capias Request at 200 lbs and his height has been listed at 5’9″ and 5’7″, but I’ve seen 5’9″ more often, so I’m going with that.
I hope you learn a lesson from this exchange.
Never lead with your chin when you are picking a fight.
Never lead with my chin? Cute! Zimmerman’s weight was not listed on the original police report, as Tom Maguire pointed out. If it was added later, it’s his weight at the time it was taken, not at the time of the shooting. It could be accurate, and it could be completely inaccurate visa a vis the night of the shooting.
BTW, his weight at the time of his booking was listed as 185, so either he’s prone to large weight swings (which means we have no idea what he weighed on 3/26 since no one recorded it) or someone’s not reading the scale correctly.
I noticed that you ignored the rest of what I wrote. With Tom Maguire, I’ll take a link to a cite that places Zimmerman on top BEFORE the shooting. I doubt you have one, since I’ve read the 183 document dump, including the witness statements several times. All the references to Zimmerman being on top are post-shooting.
He was booked on 4/11 and personnel at the jail would have weighed him and measured his height as part of the normal booking procedure. I think we can probably safely assume those measurements were accurate or very close.
The incident occurred on 2/26, which is a little over 6 weeks before he was booked into the jail on 4/11.
I am not persuaded that it’s impossible to lose 15 pounds in 6 weeks.
Even if he is innocent, he was under extreme stress during that period and it is not uncommon for people on stress overload to lose their normal appetite, drastically reduce their eating, and lose significant amounts of weight.
And there is also a possibility that he deliberately lost that weight in an attempt to significantly reduce the dramatic difference in their weight so that it would not look like he had a physical advantage over Trayvon. The operative theory is the greater the disparity in weight, the less likely he needs to use deadly force to defend himself.
In conclusion, the prosecutor potentially has a devastating one-two punch to defeat Zimmerman’s self-defense claim: Zimmerman lied to conceal that he was the aggressor and he deliberately lost as much weight as possible during the 6-week period between the shooting and his arrest to conceal that he outweighed Zimmerman by 40 pounds.
We must not forget that, if Zimmerman was the aggressor and used deadly force, Trayvon had the right to defend himself and if he broke Zimmerman’s nose and banged his head against the sidewalk to prevent being killed, he was justified in doing that.
Also don’t forget that an aggressor cannot claim self-defense and Zimmerman likely learned all of the legal nuances regarding the use of deadly force in self-defense while he was taking that criminal justice curriculum.
Now, I’ve been gone most of the day and it’s almost 2 am where I live, so I am going to knock off for the night and tomorrow I will try to find the witness statements and provide you with the links.
Don’t worry. If I cannot find them, I will admit it.
Good night.
Having checked a bit more – we are looking at two different runs of the same police report. The version printed March 6 left Zimmerman’s weight blank. The version printed April 2 changed his height (down to 07) and included his weight at 200. The April 2 version also extends the witness (‘Persons’) list.
So they updated their record. Based on what, one might wonder? Zimmerman had been cooperating with the investigation, so maybe they asked him, or put him on a scale. Or maybe they just guessed
In any case, his actual weight on Feb 26 remains a mystery.
As to whether, in the distance and darkness, a guy who is 6′ 160 lbs in a baggy hoody will look bigger or smaller than a 5’8″ guy who weighs around 185, well, I think it is great that all these witnesses have such confidence.
I also think there testimony is tainted by exposure to the “news” that Zimmerman weighted 250, as per early reports. Well, the defense can grapple with that.
Maybe to you, but to me. I am relying on the Capias Request.
Why are you assuming the police made it up?
Have you considered the possibility that he lost 15 pounds between 2/26 and 4/11 when he surrendered himself due, either to worry or intentionally or both, in order to reduce the dramatic difference in their weights so that jurors would not assume he was heavy set man?
“The version printed April 2 changed his height (down to 07) and included his weight at 200” The Capias Report is dated (and printed) 13th March so they must’ve had the 200 weight written down somewhere
The head injuries and the broken nose of GZ tend to support the initial, and more fresh impressions of the witnesses. The later testimony was offered during a time when news stories put Zimmerman as being way larger, and challenged the existence of injuries, and posited the case as a racially based extermination. What witness wants to support a racist?
If I understand things correctly — the Prosecution needs to prove that it could not be self-defense at a reasonable doubt standard in the jury trial. The consistancy of Zimmerman’s injuries to the story he tells (particularly the back of head injuries) would seem to provide that doubt.
Not to me.
His story makes no sense.
His story is not supported by the forensics.
His story is not supported by the witnesses.
Read the two-page report by the EMT at the end of the document dump. His injuries were minor.
Under Florida law, a person cannot use deadly force in self-defense unless it is reasonably necessary to do so to prevent imminent death or grievous bodily harm.
He did not have to use deadly force to prevent being killed or to prevent grievous bodily injury.
He did not even need to go to the ER and he did not need stitches.
Stay tuned for what? There have been zero developments for quite a while.
Strange vigilante guy buys gun to accessorize his strange vigilante fantasy. Follows innocent kid around he shouldn’t have based on his skin color. Gets the the shit beat out of him like he should have. Wasn’t up to that, so he shoots kid. This occurs in state where this is a protected right.
What are these nuances adding that vary that very plain story?
What if Martin once punched a kid at school? Had a few drinks? Had $30 in his wallet? WTF could possibly change this very obvious tale?
There are no relevant details about what occurred here that you are going to get from a police report. If you want answers, see if you can discover what action movies Zimmerman had in his Netflix history. They’d provide a lot more context for this incident than any eyewitness will.
You know, apart from the handgun purchase records. That being where the problem started.
Greetings, Mr. Cynic.
There is a dispute about whether Zimmerman shot Martin is self-defense. Unless there is a plea bargain, the case will go to trial and there will be various pretrial hearings first.
If you believe you have it all figured out, by all means go about your business.
I am writing about this case to define and explain legal and forensic issues.
Stick around and you might get interested.
Hell, you might even learn something.
I’ll be darned, so it does. That was blank for weeks when the City of Sanford had it posted on their website.
Well, he was at 185 in April.
I am still hoping for clarity as to which witness saw Zimmerman on top as the shot was fired, rather than afterwards.
There is the “Initial Partial Report”, the “Original Initial Partial Report”, the “Complete Initial Report”, etc. all displayed on the City of Sanford website.
It is best to check the date imprinted at the bottom of each page.
“Witness 2′s identification of Zimmerman being on top after the shot hurts Zimmerman because he told the police was on the bottom fighting for his life when he shot Trayvon.”
I think you mean witness 12.
If you could provide a link to the police report listing Zimmerman as 200 lbs on Feb 26, that would be great. Also miraculous, since it was left blank.
FWIW, the original 250 lbs estimate came from a 2005 police report. The Miami Herald reported 200 lbs in late March, after the ABC video of Zimmerman at the police station made 250 untenable.
He was listed as 185 lbs when he was finally booked in April. Both the orignal report and the April booking ought to be in the 183 page evidence dump.
“…it looked like a wrestling match with Trayvon attempting to restrain or pin down Zimmerman, who was below him”
Oddly, and I always thought, implausibly, Zimmerman claimed Martin was trying to choke him. Maybe he was telling the truth.
“Another witness, who saw the shooting from her upstairs bedroom, said the heavier built man was on top when the shot was fired and he stood up and walked 10 -20 feet away after the shot. She is one of several witnesses who say that the cries for help were uttered by the boy, not the heavier built man.”
Date we vex you for a link, or more details? This is either Mary Cutcher or the Anderson Cooper mystery witness, both of whom described a lot more than they actually observed.
And I am highly confident they both described the action *after* the shot was fired, not as it was fired. Since Martin ended up on the ground and Zimmerman walked away, one might well imagine there was a transition where he was on top, or at least, more elevated.
The 5’9″ reference was on the Capias Request, which you apparently found, given your next comment.
Nope. The description was that he was holding his arms or hands apparently attempting to keep him from getting up. The witness did not say he had his hands on Zimmerman’s mouth or neck.
Here’s the link you requested.
Check pages 2 and 4 of the 13 page handwritten statement that begins at page 89 of the document dump. I’m having trouble finding the other statement, but I’ll keep looking. It’s somewhere in the document dump.
Actually Martin was 5’11 158lb and Zimmerman was 5’8 185lb, so with less that 30lb difference in weight, in the dark, with jackets on and Zimmerman on the ground… Martin would have looked like the larger man. Seeing the media images of the much younger Martin would make the witness believe Martin was the smaller man.
Nope, the police report lists him at 5’9″, 200 lbs. at the time of the shooting on 2/26. He was listed at 185 lbs when he was booked into jail on 4/11.
You are free to believe Martin would have appeared to have been the more heavy set of the two, but I seriously doubt you will find very many people who will agree with you.
The witnesses used the descriptive term, “heavily built man,” and the smaller person, whom they described as the “boy” never got up after the shot.
The heavily built man did and that man was George Zimmerman.
There is no dispute about that.
No, Zimmerman was 5’9″ 200 lbs.
Nonsense. Changing their story after the fact and seeing pictures of a 12 year old Martin instead of the tall guy in the video. Martin died, Zimmerman admitts to shooting him and will have to do jail time but these witnesses are looking for their 15 minutes. The 13 year old teenager said “I saw a man laying on the ground needing help and screaming” . As the others are now saying “the boy”, I think Austin’s recounting of what he saw that night is truthfull. That MAN was Zimmerman.
The witnesses described a heavy set man, whom we know to be Zimmerman because he outweighed Martin by 42 pounds. They described the other guy who was shot, whom we know to have been Martin as a boy, which is understandable since he was 5’11” and weighed only 158 lbs.
Zimmerman was 5’9″ and weighed 200 lbs.
Two witnesses were looking at the two people when the shot was fired and have described the heavy-set man.
Don’t think the 13-year-old boy was certain of what he saw.
Therefore, I do not agree with you.