Monday, January 13, 2014
Good evening:
An Orange County jury today found former Fullerton police officers, Manuel Ramos and Jay Cicinelli, not guilty of beating Kelly Thomas to death at the Fullerton Transportation Center, despite a 33-minute video of the murder recorded by a nearby security camera supplemented by audio recorded by their body microphones.
This verdict is absurd and indefensible.
Whether by mistake or by deliberate act, the prosecutors in Trayvon’s and Kelly’s cases permitted cops to testify as experts on the use of force and to express their opinions that Zimmerman in Trayvon’s case and Ramos and Cicinelli in Kelly’s case acted reasonably and did not use excessive force.
Bullshit!
In both cases, the prosecutors did not object to the question and move to strike the answer until the following day.
In both cases the judges sustained the objection and instructed the jury to disregard the answer.
But that didn’t unring the bell.
Frederick Leatherman Law Blog 
FYI – Police killings in the US by year
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States
Thank you for providing that information.
I had to report to my sister’s parole officer that she is out on the street as of Saturday when another sister put her out for threatening to kill her. She is bipolar paranoid schizophrenic. She should have been made to take meds as part of parole. After 4 months parole board told me she is to “take medication as needed.” Duh – schizos don’t think they need it. Is the way to get rid of the mentally ill simply to kill them. I don’t want my sister killed. I want her treated. Martin and Thomas jurors should be posted on Youtube and other social media.
Ok forget the court system take care of it yourself and let the chips fall where they may.
I have come to the conclusion that if somebody is abusing me, it is up to ME and only to ME to defend myself. I have come to this conclusion after many many years of watching courts and law enforcement repeatedly refuse to protect innocent individuals from abuse, and even to jump on various bandwagons in helping to ABUSE innocent individuals. Our courts are not just broken, they have become the weapons that are filling the arsenal of the new feudalism. Now the Internet will not be a communications system but merely a tool of aggression against the people, and more and more, a tool of the powerful to use against the less powerful and, especially, the powerless. Notice that government services are becoming ONLY available through the use of the Internet while the use of the Internet is becoming a way to control us, rather than to let us communicate.
“take care of it yourself” is not just the preferable way.
It is now the ONLY way.
Marching and protesting is a quaint holdover of the times when there was, or appeared to be, still a chance that democracy could survive the gunning of America.
Imagining myself on that jury, would I want to be marked for life as someone who sent a cop to prison? Have the most powerful street gang around out to get me?
Another thing I’ve always wondered about is the jury selection in high-publicity cases. Would they have to choose people so clueless that they hadn’t heard of the case before? It was all over the media two years before the trial started.
Good questions.
First, the potential jurors are assigned numbers when they first report for jury service. Their names and addresses are kept in a sealed file to protect anonymity. That’s not a guarantee that they will remain anonymous, especially to someone in law enforcement, but it seems to have worked reasonably well to prevent retaliation in mob prosecutions.
Second, knowledge about a case does not automatically disqualify anyone from serving. They will be excused for cause if they volunteer or admit that they cannot be fair and impartial when hearing the evidence. If they insist they can be fair and impartial even though that seems unlikely, given what they admit to knowing, one side or the other will use a peremptory challenge to get rid of them. Usually, that will be the defense because most pretrial publicity will hurt the defense whether true or false.
The exception is the Zimmerman case where pretrial publicity falsely portrayed Trayvon as a crazed super thug and Zimmerman as a hero defending his neighborhood and himself. The prosecution did not do a very good job of identifying and getting rid of jurors who believed or were disposed to believe that bullshit.
The classic example was B37 who, during jury selection, referred to peaceful demonstrations seeking justice for Trayvon as “riots.” Her use of that word betrayed her prejudice against blacks in general and Trayvon in particular. After the verdict, she referred to Zimmerman as “George,” as if he were a personal friend, and announced that she had an agent lined up for a book deal.
Hindsight is 20-20, but even a blind man should have seen that train coming.
Procedures might vary from one place to another about keeping jurors’ names secret. The last time I went in for jury selection, my name was on a name tag for the judge and both sides’ attorneys to see during voire dire.
This was in the same county where the Kelly Thomas trial took place.
They need to change their procedures, if they haven’t already.
There might possibly be a variance between the county courts that handle misdemeanors and the superior or circuit courts that handle felonies.
I started trying cases to juries in the late 70s in various state and federal courts and every court assigned numbers.
Orange County needs to get with the program.
It was a civil case, by the way.
I was called for a criminal case. I think they called names initially; we weren’t assigned numbers prior to being selected. I don’t know if they were given numbers after selection. I wasn’t picked – they had a full jury plus alternates before they got to me.
I wouldn’t have been picked then anyway b/c I found out during the selection process that I knew a number of the people that the prospective jurors were asked about and from that deduced that the arson trial was for the woman accused of setting the fire to building where my aunt lived. At first I thought I could judge based just on the evidence but then decided that my anger at someone nearly killing my aunt would get in the way of unbiased evaluation of the evidence. When I told my brother about the case I was called for he told me about the evidence of accelerant that he and my cousin saw when they removed my aunt’s belongings from the building. If the fire station were two blocks away instead of one, she would have tried to go down the front stairs, into the fire, instead of the fire escape. A firefighter got her attention at the back door and helped her down from the third floor, she dressed in her night gown and slippers.
I live in Orange County. A few years ago, I was in the jury pool in a major criminal case. It was big enough that they selected the panel and then the jury from an original pool of around 120 people. As I recall, we were all assigned numbers on the first day that we showed up, and were called by number from then on. This was a federal prosecution, so it is possible that the procedures were different than for prosecutions by the county.
I have also been on a jury panel for a county level prosecution of a misdemeanor case, and numbers were not assigned in advance. But this was quite a few years ago, so it is possible that things have changed since then.
They killed both Kelly and Trayvon twice, first in the streets and then in the media / courtroom.
We are a deeply fractured society and somehow collectively believe that what happens to others could not happen to us. Perhaps that is what late capitalism is, a national defensive crouch.
The common thread seems to be [the same as in Nazi Germany by the way] that if you can denigrate someone’s socioeconomic or “cultural” group, you can kill them and get away with it, while blaming the victim and calling yourself a victim. Viz:
Dunn writes from jail that “the three other thugs that were in the car are telling stories to cover up their true ‘colors.'”
This means that Dunn’s real motive for killing Jordan Davis was NOT that he feared being shot, but that he saw Jordan Davis as one of four “thugs.” After all, there couldn’t be “three other thugs” if Jordan Davis was not himself a thug. So we have Dunn deciding that the four kids in the car were “thugs” and there’s his motive. And now, they’re “telling stories.” In other words, if they were NOT thugs, they would all three agree with Dunn’s version of what happened. “Yeah, it’s true what the white man said: we were all thugs and he had to shoot one of us.” Lacking that total agreement with his dominant agenda [read “I get to say what they are, what I am, and why I have the right to kill them”], they deserve killing.
Fogen stated that the “suspect” [his term to describe Trayvon Martin AFTER KILLING HIM] had run from him but after escaping, had “emerged from the darkness” and tried to kill him with his bare hands. He emphasized that his head felt like it exploded each time it hit the pavement, although his lawyers later did not carry on about the pavement very much. The cop who testified in a way to protect Fogen had told him to his face that his injuries were “capillary type lacerations” that were “not coincident with” the kind of beating he floridly described. But they all ended up accepting the “Trayvon THUG Fogen victim” picture and patted his chubby little victimized and no-muscle-toned ass on the way out the door of the courthouse.
Kelly was portrayed as a dangerous threatening homeless man who had to be physically subdued to death. The video absolutely proved that was not true. There is NO ROOM FOR CAVIL after you see the video and hear the recordings. This was a cold-blooded, violent, unprovoked, hate-inspired murder by cowardly ganged-up police upon an unarmed victim. Yet they have portrayed him, once again, as an aggressor and a danger to society.
Until they start getting punished for this kind of behavior, we will see much much much MUCH more of it. Too much for media to report; too much to keep track of; too much to empanel juries to bless; too much to think about. I thank god I have no grandchildren and I hope never to have any. I want MY line to die out before the final act of this loathsome society.
Trayvon’s case was a mirror that showed for all the world to see the ugly truth about racism and injustice in this country.
Kelly’s case was a mirror that showed for all the world to see the ugly truth that police can gang-up on and beat to death an unarmed, helpless and mentally ill young man in front of a camera and get off scot free.
The mirror doesn’t lie and no one who values and yearns for justice can turn his back to the mirror and pretend everything is OK.
This country is desperately sick and Michael Dunn’s trial starts 3 weeks from yesterday.
Feel the pressure build.
TM and KT are both in the broad category of “outcast scum” in the eyes of the police and the “good people”. So the acts of the killers get excused under the guise of “they deserved it”.
Sick.
Just doing society a favor according to their way of thinking.
People who think that way are a serious national problem that needs to be addressed.
Social ostracism would be a good start.
Disarming them would be a good next step.
There “way” of thinking is flawed in a macroeconomic sense. Wealth and status is based on extracting income via ownership of various forms of capital that exist in a hierarchy.
The toiling masses who live from pay check to pay check are the foundation of the pyramid of wealth. So only a fool would demean the ass that bears them. How would Nelson have done at Trafalgar if his signal pendants read:
“England demands that you parasites work for a change, instead of being carried by me, the master of the universe.”???
Instead, he flew:
“England expects every man to do his duty”
A great society realizes that all men play a role and none should be deemed more worthy than another.
People who toil at 9-5 jobs are the engine of any economy. So why do so many in the elite demean the majority who do obey the law and go to work every day?
Yes, Nelson led a great victory.
But, if not for the well disciplined grunts firing the guns at a great rate of fire, it would not have been so.
And, unlike our elite, Nelson put his own ass on the line as a first amongst equals, thus paying the ultimate sacrifice.
And that points to another conservative fallacy. Nelson was killed early on by a French sniper, but the next in command carried out the plan to fruition. IOW, those at the top of a chain are, individually, as easy to replace as those at the bottom.
It is funny how so many in the right wing worship the military but have not a clue that the ethics they hold dear have no place on the battlefield.
The rule at sea is that the individual sacrifices himself so that the ship may live.
That is also the true law of nature with respect to humanity. Or as Jacob Marley put it:
“Mankind was my business”
So ostracizing any person who deems others in our collective society as unworthy is the correct thing to do. In fact, it is our duty.
Yep.
Amen.
I just got back home from an 8-hour slog at “Kelly’s Corner” at the OCTA center where he was killed and at the Fullerton PD. It was a very small crowd and the reason I stayed. I’m a lifetime pacifist and so not that comfortable with the young hellions and their “Eff the police” and “Death Penalty for dirty cops, I’m available” signs, but hey, to each his own. We all react differently to the latest miscarriage of justice.
Two of my favorite signs there were “Respect Existence or Expect Resistance” and WHY AREN’T YOU ANGRY?
The Orange County Register, which is conservative and a mouthpiece for the Republican Party today had a 3-inch NOT GUILTY headline and it ain’t because they’re surprised at the verdict. And they had the nerve to say on the front page also that Kelly Thomas died five days after a “fight” with police. That was no g-d fight.
At any rate, while I don’t agree in offering violence for violence, I’m glad that Anonymous and some young rebels turned up anyway, and we all raised some cain out in front of the PD. I found my voice today and I’m hoarse from yelling. The office workers at the PD came out to watch us during their breaks, and of course there were both motorcycle cops and cops in cruisers going in and out on shift changes.
THere was lots of citizen support, honking as they drove by despite the very small (and very noisy!) crowd. I only counted 5 instances of people flipping birds or yelling at us to get off the street. Fullerton is pretty well disgusted with cops.
If everyone who wandered in and out at both Kelly’s Corner and the PD today would have stayed as a group, there may have been as many as 50 involved, including a very calm 5-month old English bulldog who took it all in stride, the only dog to do so – many people walked by with dogs who were terrified and confused by all the shouting and honking.
Apparently the shindig began at 11 AM with a gathering and a speech by the leader of some organization and there was also an early press interview with Ron Thomas over at Kelly’s Corner. I couldn’t make it until noon. What small group was left then left the sunny PD and went to Kelly’s Corner where there was some shade, but the buses are pretty empty and not much traffic there, so at about half one we marched back to the PD, a motley crew of Boomers, Occupiers, street kids, and Anonymous.
Here’s one link from ABC – there are many online – I’m off in the background wearing pink. And the Anonymous guy photographed was quite lively and funny – you can’t see the donut on the string he’s carrying to attract cops. :}
http://laist.com/2014/01/14/kelly_thomas_protest.php
I understand that if a police officer pulls me over and tells me he is going to write me a ticket, it is in the line of duty. But are you telling me they can now put on gloves, say they are going to eff me up and THAT is in the line of duty?
And you are SO right Boyd – where was the calm when the police were effing him up? Why should there be calm now. How the hell can I be calm knowing this is okay?
We need to fear our police the same as Jews feared the gestapo in Germany.
PERIOD.
Prosecutors are afraid of law enforcement. End of story. You have video of these guys provoking the man. It’s worth nothing.
I can’t read about anymore court cases.i knew it was fixed when Ramos was smiling.this is beyond my comprehension.next they will have their jobs back and forget about FBI.poor Kelly and all victims past ,present and future.maybe the jurors were afraid of retribution.i just can’t rationalize this.
There is no rational explanation for this monstrous miscarriage of justice.
Perhaps the explanation mirrors that of fogen’s trial. Public outcry that demands arrest and trial, the arrest and trial, but a prosecution and jury that want the status quo. We know how it was done in Sanford. Was it the same in Fullerton? We know that opinions were offered without objection from the prosecutor. Were witnesses asked the right questions? How was the jury picked? Were they asked about family or friends who are or were LEO or the recalled Council members? The prosecutor was definitely low-key, without any passion. Was the lack of passion in his speech indicative of his attitude toward the prosecution as a whole? (It could be just his style.) This was a prosecutor who has to continue to work with the police department. Why not a special out-of-the-area prosecutor? These are questions to which I don’t know the answer and maybe we got the wrong end of the stick about what these thugs, er, cops did.
If that was I telling that young man I’m going beat the shit out of you and I’m caught on tape saying so. I’m in Jail. End of story.
The parents are better people than me, I could not take that , I’d go Taliban for payback. I’m angry. This is why people get violent and riot. I hear they’re asking for calm, ha ha ha, did they ask for calm when they wanted to beat this kid up? F them.
Jurors, love ’em or hate ’em, accurately read a lawyer’s passion for his or her case.
Generally, they expect the prosecutor to show them that he or she cares about the outcome. Absence of passion draws attention and causes speculation when they should be paying attention.
One of the worst things a prosecutor can do is to throw everything out there and let the jury decide.
When that happens, jurors are likely to wonder why they should care about convicting the defendant since the prosecutor obviously doesn’t care.
Indifference is a form of permission.
I think we saw that from Bernie de la Rionda in the Zimmerman trial, especially during the defense case when he basically disappeared.
We didn’t get to see or hear much of Tony Rauckauckas because of the absence of live coverage, so I can’t judge him on this ground.
However, as the elected district attorney for Orange County, he certainly knew that he had to walk a fine line to avoid offending cops whose endorsement he would need to win reelection and the angry public that demanded justice for Kelly Thomas.
Smack dab in the middle is no place to be.
New post up:
Jodi Arias resentencing scheduled for St. Patrick’s Day
The use of force expert sham reveals just how much the USA has become a nation scared sheeple who cow to authority figures.
It is a classic example of an authoritarian state.
The “expert” tells you what the facts are so that you do not have to engage in critical thinking.
Never mind that the expert is part of the shitstem and often has a vested interest in the outcome.
That was how the church was used to control the peasants in Feudal Europe.
IMO, the USA is on its way to a form of Neo-Feudalism wherein nobility is based on ownership of property rights and the media takes on the role of feeding the masses propaganda.
Keep in mind that in a hierarchical feudal system, the opinions of those deemed higher up in the pecking order such as police hold more weight than us lowly peons.
So is it any wonder that “protect and serve” has become “harass and intimidate”?
This fawning of all things police and military has got to stop. For it is time to bring them back down to what they should be – public servants on the taxpayer role who should jump when we ask them to do something.
In the case of police, there should be no special treatment like cop killer laws or absolving their union from budget cuts given to other government employees. Why should their lives be deemed more valuable that those they took an oath to protect and serve? Kind of like a crew with a law that allows them to abandon ship to let the passengers drown, is it not?
In the case of crimes committed by police, justice should be more harsh in that those who enforce the law must be held to a higher standard, lest society lose all respect for law. A point we are fast approaching.
When cops commit crimes against people, they also abuse their authority and violate the public trust.
Those two additional factors are aggravating factors listed in the United States Sentencing Guidelines (applicable to people convicted of federal crimes) that can substantially enhance a sentence imposed for the underlying crime.
Fred, I agree, but where do we begin when we have so may who aren’t listening, and don’t care to. I don’t know what’s up with these juriors, perhaps they don’t have a clear understanding in what reasonable means. Are they being bribed, not taking their jobs as juriors seriously, not paying attension, don’t care, waiting to sell a story, who knows. I would like to see each jurior before the verdict is read, to have to sit individually before a panel of some sort, so they can be asked about their verdict and be subject to questioning in how they reached their verdict.
Here’s a good article about the verdict in the Casey Anthoney trial, and how the juriors reached their verdict. After all the time and money wasted, what a shame.
http://www.businessinsider.com/brainwashed-marcia-clark-explains-why-casey-anthony-jurors-came-up-with-the-not-guilty-verdict-2011-7
This part stood out to me, and how is seems that it relates to the Travon Martin case.
Juror Ford said she didn’t believe it was their duty to “connect all the dots,” and that the prosecution was required to answer every question about Caylee’s death,
First of all, there is no such thing as a case in which the prosecution answers every question. It isn’t possible. Second of all, the prosecution doesn’t have to.
Moreover, it is most certainly the jury’s duty to “connect the dots.” The jury is required to consider all of the evidence and to draw the reasonable inferences that evidence suggests. Note I said reasonable
The defense though their charts wanted the jury to believe that if one of the elements wasn’t proved, then they must aquit. The prosacutors wanted them to look at the whole picture, he lied, changed stories several times clearly to benefit himself, frame of mind with these assholes they always get away, fn coons, clealy not punks, lack of dna where there should have been. There’s no need to lie unless there’s something to hide. He didn’t take the stand, why? IMO, He lied through his whole story, it’s reasonable to assume what was questionable since there was no witness, only his word, is a lie as well. Common sence.
In today’s world what is right is wrong and what is wrong is right.
One better watch what they do from now on. Better walk on egg shells. Don’t speed. Obey all traffic laws. Don’t litter (not even the tiniest piece of paper. Don’t spit. Don’t talk to loud. Don’t argue at all with the police. Say yes sir and no sir. (UGH) Even if you say nothing, which is our right, you may be beaten up for whatever you do. The list could go on and on and on and well on. I guess it matters not if it is all on camera or not.
Trust no one!!!!!!!!! And it’s sad the very people we call to help us. Abuse us! And they CAN GET AWAY WITH IT!
As a mother in the court system being sued (28 times) by an abusive man, I learned that long ago. Not only can they get away with it, but you will be punished for trying to hold them accountable.
A teenager who said, “Yes, sir. I’m sorry, sir” to an impatient cop at a McDonald’s drive-through ended up with the psycho cop’s gun in his face. So even kissing their mighty a**es won’t protect you if they have a h*rd-on for “f**king you up” at any given moment.
I totally wasted 3 years of my life following that case. I can’t stand to even listen to her name. Nor her family’s. I couldn’t even finish Caylee’s website because it hurt me terribly. It’s unfinished. No closing because Caylee deserved to have her day. And it was foiled by the dumb ass juror’s. I blame no one but the jurors.
Jody Arias’ jurors are just as bad. And they can’t decide life or death? Well, in my heart I say give her death. She deserves NOTHING less.
The noise and pain will increase and increase and increase until suddenly one day, as if by magic, people will awaken. The tide will turn and nothing will save anyone who stands in the way.
That day will come not by magic. It will come when everyone either suffers the pain of injustice or cares about someone who does. Critical mass.
I think it’s inevitable.
We are being moved toward a feudal society.
The 1% now own our government and are changing the police departments into overt militant means of keeping us all in line.
The wealth gap is a measure of this. The wealthiest, those who don’t rely on a job to pay for their many houses, cars, planes, yachts, etc., are paying much to those who carry out their wishes – accountants, lawyers, legislators, governors, etc. The very people who should be working for us are, in fact, working for the those who will enslave us (think of the laws and the enforcement that puts so many people in prisons that make a profit from taxpayer dollars and corporations who take advantage of the slave labor.) The entertainment and sports industries are distractions to keep us occupied with the mundane rather the real issues and problems.
The wealth gap has left so many of us with barely enough to meet basic needs. The minimum wage has decimated the worker class. While social security and Congressional pay are tied to the cost of living index (and Congress is trying to recalculate the SS payments to lower them, but notably, not their own pay), the minimum wage is not. Percentage wise, every increase in Congressional pay is an indication of how much has been taken from those in lowest paying jobs. This means that those with the least, those who are most oppressed, have the least in order to fight back. That group of those-with-the-least is growing every day through fewer jobs and lower pay. A really tight job market makes it possible for employers to pay everyone less b/c there are many willing to take the job for less.
Consider the Civil Rights movement, American Indian movement, the women’s movement, the LGBT movement, the Occupy movement. In each case, those who were being oppressed were the first to stand and say, “NO MORE!” As others came to understand the moral implications and/or the negative impact on those they cared about, changes happened. The laws changed. Enforcement of the laws came about. The pendulum has swung such that many of the laws that we need for a civil society for all have become riddled with loopholes if they haven’t been replaced. At some point the group of people being oppressed will hit the point where they will rebel and the pendulum with swing back, not all the way back b/c they will eventually be given just enough to dull the struggle.
The sad part of the Civil Right and American Indian movements is they were infiltrated and their leadership were murdered by the PTB. Even today, whistleblowers are punished harshly while those they out are rewarded, frequently with promotions. The Occupy movement was infiltrated, police used thuggish tactics, and key people were marginalized. We need to expect that change will be difficult.
“Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.” – Frederick Douglas, abolitionist.
When all opportunities for an equitable and peaceful resolution of differences are systematically and sadistically eliminated, people will resort to force and blood will flow.
Slavery is not an option.
I am sorry. I am not surprised. I told my friend just yesterday. I don’t believe this jury will do the right thing.
We don’t have to wish bad (or good) things on people. Karma is already set in place. What we reap we sew! Nothing changes Karma.
This country scares the hell out of me.
I could not stop crying when I heard Kelly calling, oh excuse me, screaming for his daddy to help him. I can’t imagine listening to one of my children on a video tape, it’s so loud and haunting. I would just die where I was. It’s terrible.
As for the jurors. Karma is also set for them as well.
Love you Kelly and may you rest in peace!!!!
We’re the jurors threatened or bribed? I just don’t understand. It was right there on tape. I just don’t understand!!!
I don’t know how this happened. I suspect stealth jurors and corruption but have no evidence except the verdict.
I do know that we are being called to action. We the people are the only ones who can fix this mess. We can no longer rely on our elected officials, the police and the courts to fix the problem because they are the problem.
Whether we succeed or fail depends entirely on us.
Jurors don’t need to be threatened or bribed. Jurors are no better than anybody else. They’ve already been bought and sold and they see no reason to object to it on behalf of a corpse.
Personally I hope they both die a long horrible death…..as for the jurors….I hope they contract an unknown virus from some unknown source that had only enough mircoshit to infect them and they suffer as badly for a long time.
What is this country coming to ?? and better yet……why??
Our courts are broken and so is our country.
And then there’s the mess in KJ’s case and we have the Michael Dunn trial starting 3 weeks from today.
In my opinion, it is our courts that destroyed us. No matter what laws our elected officials make, no matter what “policies” are allegedly in place, each court can unmake any law and destroy any life and there is never a price to be paid. Our judges are low-quality warlords who are basically put into their positions by gangs of politically powerful thugs who operate in secrecy and are never accountable. The deals that are cut are so far from anything written down that even guessing what went on makes the citizen-investigator a “conspiracy theorist” without a leg to stand on. We are bought and sold every day for pennies.
Trayvon was sold. Kelly was sold. Kendrick will be sold again and on and on and on and on…
The pontification we hear from all our officials (and anybody else who gets on the radio) is meaningless babble that only conveys one idea: If you don’t like it, too damn bad. Why don’t you go to some corner (when your workday is over) and pray. QUIETLY.