Saturday, October 18, 2014
Good morning:
The New York Times is reporting today that Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson “told investigators two months ago that he was pinned in his vehicle and in fear for his life as he struggled over his gun with Mr. Brown according to government officials briefed on the federal civil rights investigation into the matter.”
He told them that Brown reached for his gun during a scuffle inside his police vehicle. Two shots were fired. The first shot hit Brown in the arm. The second shot missed.
Forensic testing has determined that Brown’s blood was found on the gun, Wilson’s uniform and the interior panel on the driver’s door.
Wilson claimed that Brown “punched and scratched him repeatedly leaving swelling on his face and cuts on his neck.”
Even if we assume that Wilson’s statement is true, that does not mean the subsequent shooting outside the vehicle was justified.
The applicable legal rule: a police officer may pursue a fleeing felon and shoot him, if he refuses to stop and the officer reasonably believes that he presents a danger to others. However, he cannot use deadly force, if the suspect stops and surrenders to his authority by raising his hands. If the suspect approaches him, he can only use deadly force, if he reasonably believes that he is in imminent danger of being killed or seriously injured.
The imminent-danger requirement is the key issue to resolving this case and the answer depends on their relative size, the distance between them, and how fast Brown was moving toward him as well as how he was moving (i.e., running toward the officer versus stumbling and falling forward after being shot).
The officer’s statement to the federal investigators does not answer these questions.
We know that Brown’s body was found 95 feet from the officer’s vehicle, not 35 feet as claimed by the police chief.
Independent eyewitnesses have described an execution, so I see no reason why the grand jury has not indicted Darren Wilson for murder.
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Frederick Leatherman Law Blog 
Why does the NYT say that others say Michael Brown was advancing on Darren Wilson, who are these others?
NONE and why use the term “advancing on” only clowns with some agenda use that term for walking towards…….NOBODY saw any threatening move by Brown NO witness…..the worst any say is he took ONE step as he fell or he staggered a bit as he fell………this was cold blooded murder and wilson wont be charged by the GJ, our system is fine the people running it are criminals.
Not one witness saw any advancing or bull-rushing. I’m afraid they are not going to charge Wilson this whole grand jury thing is fixed.
Black teens are killed during encounters with police at a rate 21 times that of white teens:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/analysis-shows-young-black-men-are-21-times-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police/
Key quotes:
“Young black males in recent years were at a far greater risk of being shot dead by police than their white counterparts – 21 times greater i, according to a ProPublica analysis of federally collected data on fatal police shootings.
The 1,217 deadly police shootings from 2010 to 2012 captured in the federal data show that blacks, age 15 to 19, were killed at a rate of 31.17 per million, while just 1.47 per million white males in that age range died at the hands of police…”
Yet a large portion of our country “concerned” about Wilson not getting a fair trial due to the emotions and imagination of “the blacks” will easily accept the rather absurd premise that Brown would decide to “attack” a cop.
And the laughable premise that Wilson had every reason to fear for his life while Brown had no fears at all.
Isn’t this leaked information a violation of the grand jury process? Are they trying to delay this farce even longer by this leak? (New jury would have to be seated and start all over again?)
No, the information that was in the NYT originated from the FBI/DOJ.
Indeed yes, Roderick. The FBI/DOJ is doing the forensic analysis and will be releasing the information. Will the Feds be testifying for the GJ?
I don’t understand.
The information leaked to the NYT came from the FBI/DOJ.
I doubt they will be testifying before the grand jury since the locals did their own forensic analysis if that’s what you want to call the NYT’s report.
I need to pay more attention to detail. Thanks for the clarification.
So Wilson does not say what happens after Michael runs away from the SUV? What is his explanation for following and
shooting at him. Why not call for backup arrest him and charge him for assaulting an officer?
I thought there was only one shot from the car, now they say there were two. Why did none of the witnesses hear a second shot? With the tussle at the window, it’s a he-said-he-said situation. Ok. Wilson started the altercation (raced his car back, parked close, and opened his door, hitting Michael) and Michael responded by pushing back on the door, yada yada yada. Two shots fired, Michael hit. Michael runs away. End of confrontation. There is no longer a threat of bodily harm to Wilson, so, with Michael running away why could Wilson shoot at him? What was the danger to him or others at that time?
Keep in mind that the prosecution, if their is one, will not have law enforcement on their side, or be that interested in trying hard to convict a member of a PD with whom they work as partners.
Prosecution and law enforcement do work hand-in-hand and prosecutors definitely don’t like to go after their colleagues, even the murdering ones.
With all due respect to everyone….and you all know where I stand, I have to disagree with the thought that Wilson will get the benefit of the doubt and his credibility will not be suspect.
Knowing what I know about cop shops and the like, my dad being a cop for over 25 years, Wilson will probably be convicted if indicted. The only way he gets off if they don’t indict. The population is 67% AA there and I cannot fathom it being an all white racist jury. He won’t be tried by a jury of cop peers. The defense will go through 50,000 potential jurors to find 12 who will acquit. A hung jury at best for him.
I can almost guarantee the cops have witness statements and they know they can’t risk this in front of 12 jurors.
Just my opinion……it isn’t FL and this is high profile. If it wasn’t, and the world didn’t know about this, he’d slip quietly on and he’d already be back on the street.
Where the hell is he ?? Hiding over at some Air Marshall friends house ??
The fact that the required by law police report states…….well, the fucking date, his name, the street and the victims name says a ton. A jury will be told there is a reason he never filed a required by law report. That’s so he could tailor his story to what facts and statements seeped out. He had no clue the 2 construction workers were looking. The excited utterance “……his fuckin’ hands were up” could be the one phrase that gets him.
This can’t be ignored in this society. This kid, no matter how big, was surrendering.
Indict this bastard NOW!!!!!
people with sense understand your 100% valid point “the excited utterance” and the physical act of raising his hands(even the construction guy did NOT raise his straight up or all the way up)….that act caught on video tells the factual TRUTH by a person stunned by what they just witnessed…….MURDER
Slow down on the caffeine racer.
So you’re saying AA don’t, can’t believe cops and since 67% are AA due process would be thrown out the window. Thank goodness you won’t be on that jury. I made a statement about cops and that they are generally believed by most, and trusted by the courtroom workgroup. I can suggest some great research on this topic if you’d like.
My quote was: “Police will always get the benefit of the doubt no matter what color one is. They get that benefit and always will. On the other hand we all know our laws are steeped with racism.” Ask your father. Every police officer knows.
Calm down bud.
40 years beats your 25 years.
I have total faith that with Holder and the Feds overseeing the investigation that all the truth will be available to all of us
Lyn, you sound a bit cryptic. Would you like to elaborate a little? Are you saying that the Feds will (a) see to it that Wilson gets indicted and if that does not happen (b) make their files public? I am trying to understand you, not attack you 🙂 .
The only person I have faith in in this whole saga is – strangely enough – the Prosecutor, because he is the only one who has the power to make or break this case; he has promised to live no stone unturned and because I still believe that most/all Prosecutors are very loyal to their profession alone and to no one else. IMO, when the Prosecutor decided to send the case to the Grand Jury, no Prosecutor would have indicted on the evidence that was available to him at that time. Evidence continued to be gathered after the Grand Jury was already sited. And once the Grand Jury was constituted and sited, it may not be dissolved to make way for indictment by information by the Prosecutor. The law says that the Grand Jury must be allowed to run its cause before any other course of action is taken. Having said all these, I would be lying if I claim that I am not afraid that I may be proven wrong and Wilson will not be indicted. It is an uncomfortable game of nerves. .
I have no faith in this prosecutor or this grand jury. They had more than sufficient evidence to arrest and indict Wilson within days of the shooting and they still do. The prosecutor has no intention of obtaining an indictment or he would have done so.
I see nothing but an effort to obstruct justice.
Please tell me that you’re being sarcastic.
Holder is resigning and won’t give a second thought about Michael Brown.
And he wouldn’t have given a FIRST thought about Michael Brown even if he were NOT resigning.
True.
It’s ironic that white racists think that Obama is some black radical when he doesn’t give a damn about black people.
Sadly, that quote about police, although true, is what is and what should never be.
It defies common sense.
Why would Wilson, because he wears a blue uniform, be expected to tell the truth, if the truth means a stint in prison.
Blood on the gun does not in any way shape or form prove that Brown was trying to grab it.
I could come up with a score of possibilities equally probable and also matching what other witnesses saw.
For example.
Wilson could have grabbed Brown. Brown could have reacted by punching and slapping away Wilson’s grip, thus causing the alleged injuries to Wilson. Once free, Brown could have faced an enraged Wilson training a gun to his head and reacted by raising an arm {note many a shooting victim has been killed by a round that passed through a hand or arm that was thrown up by instinct} that was hit by a round wherein back splatter ended up on the gun, Wilson’s shirt and the interior door panel.
I submit my scenario is equal in probability to Wilson’s story, absent other factors.
In fact, more probable, due to other factors.
For it does not have to excuse or ignore the highly improbable act of Brown deciding to attack a police officer without being provoked.
Attacking a police officer is like running in front of a moving truck – you are most likely to die.
What are the odds of one doing that out of the blue?
Now, let us look at it from the other perspective.
What are the odds of an armed police officer being comfortable with provoking a “suspect” and not feeling their life is in danger?
And how sure is that officer of getting away with shooting the “provoked”, if the provoked strikes him?
And that is the shitstem logic that our society must change. Cops get away with mayhem because we allow them too.
And we will allow Wilson.
Wilson’s thought his life was in danger?
He was in a car and could have gunned the engine to get away.
He had a gun.
He had Brown on the run.
I am calm. I’m not saying AA don’t, can’t believe cops.
My dad was a cop and from seeing 1st hand a good lawyer, or prosecutor dedicated to justice can destroy a liars story, like the one Wilson will spew.
You need to get real on what I said about the 67% line. Reread it.
I said I cannot fathom that with a population or 67% AA’s Wilson will get a Fogen jury.
Seriously……………..
Racer,
Drinking too much caffeine again bud.
I agree. I think FPD and STL can try all the tricks they want, but they’re not in FL. Wilson could walk due to a lukewarm prosecution or a pro-police jury, but I think if the state of MO doesn’t indict, then the Feds will. If that doesn’t happen, then there will be an uprising that will have far more than local consequences. The world is watching.
I sure hope my cynicism is wrong and you are correct. I guess I have read too many posts by cop defenders on other sites. Of course, the world is watching what those people are writing and thinking – who is the USA to lecture any other nation about anything?
Collectively, we love to put down “Europe” and the “third world”.
Well, cops rarely kill anyone in Europe – I believe the rate is 1/100th of the USA.
And, in the third world, Wilson never would have made it out of that street alive.
Here, in the “land of the free and home of the brave”, we, like that Marine joke, take our police beatings and say “thank you sir, can I have another?”
“The applicable legal rule: a police officer may pursue a fleeing felon and shoot him, if he refuses to stop and the officer reasonably believes that he presents a danger to others. However, he cannot use deadly force, if the suspect stops and surrenders to his authority by raising his hands. If the suspect approaches him, he can only use deadly force, if he reasonably believes that he is in imminent danger of being killed or seriously injured.”
Professor, I would like to clarify (not to you of course 🙂 , but to some who may read more into what you said than you intended to say) that a police officer may only shoot a fleeing felon/suspect only if said felon/suspect poses “a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others”. Thus (a) A felon/suspect may flee as much as (s)he wants and may not be shot – as long as the officer has no probable cause to believe that aforementioned threat exists; (b) Posing “danger” alone is not enough. What is required is a specific kind of danger (i.e. “a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others”).
“However, he cannot use deadly force, if the suspect stops and surrenders to his authority by raising his hands. If the suspect approaches him, he can only use deadly force, if he reasonably believes that he is in imminent danger of being killed or seriously injured.”
Well said. i would like to add that IMHO Wilson never wanted to arrest Mike Brown at all. The available evidence so far does not suggest/indicate that Darren Wilson ever yelled at- or otherwise ordered Mike Brown to stop (and get on the ground). This tells me that the decision to execute Mike Brown was made while the scuffle was ongoing in Wilson’s car. Having miserably failed to execute Mike while said scuffle was ongoing (and Wilson would definitely have gotten away with it if he succeeded), Wilson then got out of his car after Mike fled and continued shooting until Mike was down. If Wilson wanted to arrest Mike Brown, he would have yelled as he was required to and cops always do: “stop!!! Get down on the ground now!!! etc. If he did, it would have been captured on tape before the final round of the kill-shots were fired and eyewitnesses would have heard it. But Wilson did not. Why? And if he did, why would he then believe that (a) an unarmed, (b) seriously injured boy stopped, turned around to (c) bull-rush, beat up and/or kill a trained police officer of his (Wilson) size, who not only (d) has a loaded gun in his hand pointed at him (Mike) but (e) has in fact wounded him (Mike) with said gun and continued to shoot at him (Mike) while he (Mike) fled?
You see, guys, Wilson can lie all he wants, but he ain’t fooling anyone who does not want and yearn to be fooled.
it is amazing to me anybody can support what wilson clearly did? great addition to the professors comment………..one thing i think can be established to police IF you FALL FORWARD after they shoot you that is a VERY aggressive movement by you and merits more shots.
4 did not kill him whether he was standing still or not. He did not fall, move, stumble, advance until the 4th shot. Kind of incredible.
Police shoot until they believe the threat is gone. Darren will need to answer and science too as to why 4 shots did not kill MB once he surrendered with hands up. Four bullets to a man standing still with an officer advancing and he doesn’t drop to the ground dead.
the evidence given in this story confirms Johnsons story of the struggle at the car with wilson grabbing at Brown with one hand and shooting him with the other…..the confirms that Brown was hit at the car just like Johnson said……and the claims some are making that the blood on the door panel shows Brown was INSIDE the car are moronic both wilson and Brown are LARGE people they could NOT BOTH be INSIDE the car on the drivers side simply not possible……
It backs up Johnson on that he saw blood.
But it takes away any doubt about officer shooting him in the back or as he was fleeing (arm shot was only way to possibly say he was hit in back, but now we know different).
“If the suspect approaches him, he can only use deadly force, if he reasonably believes that he is in imminent danger of being killed or seriously injured.”
And that’s what I believe he thinks. I’m going to hold off on how far away he was as we don’t know. I think he was a lot closer than 90 feet. 3 shots to get him to stop advancing, 1 shot as he was going down and 1 kill shot.
“A police officer may pursue a fleeing felon and shoot him, if he refuses to stop and the officer reasonably believes that he presents a danger to others.” If Brown had shots in his back, this would be what officer would use. If the officer had seriously injured or killed him on first shot from inside his vehicle instead of arm, we wouldn’t be here.
Grand jury should indict because it’s possible that he wasn’t moving (unlikely) and his hands were actually in the air.
Let 12 jurors decide.
They’d rather the grand jury decide this in a secret proceeding than that there be a trial and the public gets to see what is done.
Yes, I agree with you and Ben Crump. For the sake of Mike Brown’s family, friends and the community transparency is required and the only way to do that is to have a trial. There is more than enough evidence to establish probable cause to charge Wilson with murder, so there is no excuse not to charge him.
the reason this became a story is really simple to me….far too many people SAW a cold blooded murder and within a couple of hours they also SAW the police were covering it up……witnesses tried to tell police what they saw and the police wanted no part of that they instead were trying to take and did take cell phones obviously in the hope to make any real video of the shooting disappear……this has been a coverup from the very beginning starting with NO report by wilson and NO required report by his immediate superior on the USE OF FORCE which is required by law……. then LIES by the chief about the number of shots fired followed by a lie by the county chief about the distance saying it all went down within 32 feet of the suv……they even MOVED a different suv within that distance after the fact.
Could have been done in a week. Whole thing is ridiculous. I get this eery feeling like they are setting it up for a no indictment, releasing a little to test the waters. You know they have been done hearing stuff. Would be a travesty if no bill. There is reasonable doubt. Period. What is this prosecutor doing? Pretending to be a defense attorney during these meetings.
Bill Taylor and Justice for Trayvon Martin in Atlanta ( 🙂 i like to decode stuff), Daren Wilson’s story and Doran Johnson’s version of what happened are diametrically opposed to each other. The strange thing is that the evidence reported in the New York Times’ story supports both Doran Johnson’s version and Wilson’s version. The Jury will very easily believe Darren Wilson over Doran Johnson. Luckily enough, this case will not be about Doran John’s credibility re what led to the scuffle “in” the car and what transpired there, but rather about what happened from the very moment Mike pulled away from Wilson and fled for his life.
@searchingmind
“The Jury will very easily believe Darren Wilson over Dorian Johnson. Luckily enough, this case will not be about Dorian Johnson’s credibility re what led to the scuffle “in” the car and what transpired there, but rather about what happened from the very moment Mike pulled away from Wilson and fled for his life.”
Exactly.
2 things:
Police will always get the benefit of the doubt no matter what color one is. They get that benefit and always will. On the other hand we all know our laws are steeped with racism.
The defense would have a field day with Dorian on the stand provided that judge allows “robbery” in and his status at the time. Not saying he is not credible but his credibility would be attacked. Defense will attack every eyewitness on the basis that eyewitness accounts never match and are generally viewed as unreliable.
Police have always said that there was a struggle at that vehicle and that shots were fired from inside that vehicle. That’s the only thing that has remained consistent.
I think science, forensics, reconstruction can prove most of this case re: what is reasonable once Wilson exited the vehicle.
That is a very good point but I dont think the prosecuter is tryingto convince the jury he’s guilty. Only putting in a minor effort for indictment. He is probably presenting evidence in a
In a non chalant manner.
Sadly, I feel this evidence will provide a defense for Wilson in that he will be able to claim that he was “attacked” by Brown. And in a society wherein the general public is rife with internalized assumptions about black males, that will make Brown’s next claim that he was in fear of another “attack” and had to shoot to kill reasonable in the eyes of enough jurors – for example, a B37.
This is my take based on having lived in a poor neighborhood that transitioned from predominantly white to predominantly black, with the PD remaining mostly white.
First.
A black male is aggressively confronted by police and is never given the respect of being called “”sir” or “young man”. No, they are most often called “asshole”, “punk”, “you”.
And the aggressive behavior is often coupled with an immediate use of physical force such as grabbing by the shirt collar or, if they cam, getting the person in some sort of submission hold.
I saw enough of this with my own eyes.
Hell, I got a gun pointed at me by a cop and called asshole because only scum loser whites {cops words} lived amongst those black thugs.
And this is why I get very angry when complaints by the black community get dismissed as paranoia or lies.
If one has not been in the “shit”, then they don’t know shit from Sherlock.
So my theory is that Wilson – who, BTW, is a big strong looking guy, based on his award photo – grabbed Brown near the throat and Brown instinctively lashed out to break the hold. The lashing out is what caused the alleged injuries to Wilson. Wilson, because he got hit, got pissed, pulled his gun, and shot Brown in the arm.
All that said, the whites who either are overt or internalized racists will accept the totally illogical premise that Brown would decide to “attack” a police officer.
I say illogical because Brown would know:
A) Attacking an officer with a gun creates a high probability of his own death – which it did.
B) Even if the attack was a “success”, Brown would face a high probability of death when accosted or an assured long stint in prison.
A and B will be blithely dismissed by many whites because, as they know, those people are prone to “attack”.
Lets face it.
The illogical premise that Trayvon Martin would decide to attack a stranger and try to kill him, although he would have known full well such an attack would result in his incarceration, if he lived, was accepted as Gospel.
And the right of Travon the lash out and break free from an unlawful detention was dismissed as “speculation”.
I feel very sad to write this. But the truth about our country hurts.
So read the concern trolls using this info and weep.
Unfortunately I agree with everything you said. :::sigh:::
The blood probably came from the wound on Brown’s arm which were the only part of his body that was inside the SUV because he was trying to get Wilson to release his grip from around his neck.
Considering the fact that all the parties (including ME) on the police side of this were in very close mutually-protective contact, I don’t even trust the reports about where Michael Brown’s blood was found. After all they had plenty of time and incentive to place Brown’s blood wherever the hell they wanted it between the time of his death and the release of this “information.” And they had Warren’s secret grand jury testimony to use to match up their “findings” with his story. If there had been a police report filed by Warren that very day and the findings of Brown’s blood released timely with crime scene photographs soon thereafter I would consider it more believable; as it is, this means nothing to me other than a cover-up.
I agree with Professor’s point, however. If Brown did all this to the officer and then ran, I would presume his exit from the car with guns blazing was his angry reaction to being hurt and humiliated by a suspect who did not immediately cower and accept correction for his transgression of walking in the street. His continuing to pump bullet after bullet into the wounded and submissive suspect was probably due to his rage and the adrenalin coursing through his angry supremacist veins.
I meant “Wilson,” not “Warren.” So many cops, so little tim!
“If Brown did all this to the officer and then ran, I would presume his exit from the car with guns blazing was his angry reaction to being hurt and humiliated by a suspect who did not immediately cower and accept correction for his transgression of walking in the street. His continuing to pump bullet after bullet into the wounded and submissive suspect was probably due to his rage and the adrenalin coursing through his angry supremacist veins.”
I hate you, Malisha, for not becoming a lawyer as you should have! You capture stuff the way a not insignificant number of lawyers won’t. Wilson has not only motive (revenge) but also time to reflect and decide: “you are dead, you motherfucking sonuvabitch! How dare you!”. That’s murder1 as you rightly pointed out.
Ditto. ^^^ What Malisha said!
Hard to trust anything FPD could say at this point, since Wilson refused to file a report and they allowed him to not do it.
And very few suspects of any crime need to be executed in the street for any reason, especially when they’re unarmed. ‘ ‘Murican policing is out of control.
Hi Professor, sent a donation yesterday. Much good luck and hope things have settled down for you and Crane. Anticipating seeing the entire forensic report when released.
Thank you so much, lyn. We are grateful to be out of Paducah, because it became unsafe and unlivable. The home invaders/criminal cyberstalkers stole and vandalized, over a lengthy period of time. We are in a better place now, thank you again.