Open Thread Discussion

Friday, September 19, 2014

Good afternoon:

We are on the move and will be available on a hit-and-miss basis until the end of next week.

I will be posting from hot spots, such as McDonald’s until we reach our next destination.

Jury selection starts Monday in the Michael Dunn retrial. I doubt there will be live coverage.

Assuming they are able to seat a jury without having to bring in jurors from another judicial district, the opening statements should take place on Wednesday or possibly Thursday.

The trial is expected to last two weeks.

The defense argued a motion yesterday to prevent the medical examiner from testifying about the position Jordan Davis was in when he was shot.

As you may recall, Dunn testified at the trial that Jordan opened the back door and got out when he shot him. The medical examiner, who has since moved on to another job, testified that he was leaning away from the back door toward the driver’s side and passenger sitting behind the driver when he was shot.

She has performed some experiments since the trial and will be testifying that Dunn’s version of the shooting is impossible. His lawyer is seeking to bar that testimony on the ground that she is unqualified to express an opinion on that matter.

That argument is ridiculous because medical examiners routinely autopsy victims who die of gunshot wounds and know more about bullet wounds that anybody else.

The defense will be calling Michael Knox, the self-described forensic expert from Jacksonville whom LLMPapa embarrassed in the run-up to the Zimmerman trial. According to the defense, he is more qualified than the the medical examiner because he is a firearms expert.


He is going to say that Jordan Davis was out of the back seat when shot and he has prepared a video reconstruction of the shooting to prove it.

Should be interesting to watch the cross examination.

BTW, I do not believe there is any chance that Judge Healey will rule that the medical examiner is not qualified to express her opinion.

If he does, the scoreboard behind the judge will light up with:

Error Judge

The pool is open. Feel fee to discuss the Dunn retrial or any other topic.

179 Responses to Open Thread Discussion

  1. ay2z says:

    Dunn trial, state rested this morning after the ME office tech then the ME at the time. ME survived without getting too unravelled and reactive to the defense, but she was again, annoyed but prepared to handle it. She’s not a big people person, I think.

    Did she pull a Dr…… (forget his name, ME for Trayvon Martin’s case) and go do some of her own investigation re: the Durango and trajectories? Seems the result wasn’t so damaging in this case, she had already formed her opinion and the additional investigation, was to check her own opinion with more information, so not changed or formed from her own personal ‘auto-psy’.

    Defense began case after lunch break, and after extended ‘housekeeping’ that related to visuals the defense created, and sorting out the expert witnesses understanding that no mention of ‘last trial’ should be mentioned at all. Of course the defense asked for acquittal, denied by Judge Healey.

    After lunch…. Knox Knox, who’s there? Defense forensics expert.

    • ay2z says:

      During ‘housekeeping’ with expert ME questions to be cleared by defense and response expected by state, one question by defense, Judge Healey said point blank…. “Not going to let you ask a question that is not true.”

  2. a2nite says:


    They’re still looking for the “perps”. Glad the officer is alive.

    The police are agents of evil oppression.

  3. ay2z says:

    Interesting comment by Judge Healey after return from mid-afternoon break (with the reported side bar).

    Comment about what happened (didn’t explain) that might have been something that needed a halt and hearing. Hope this isn’t reason for a mistrial. The afternoon break did take longer than ordered.

    Could be ‘what happened’ relates to the juror expulsion. Could the jury be ‘tainted’? Bias would be towards the state, if anything.

    After Ms. Rouer, the state brought two witnesses, both FDLE experts, the first, Surkhan (sp?) Warf, forensic seurologist, who spoke about touch DNA and that there was none found or not enough DNA, to be found (as common) on an item she had swabbed and done the extraction on.

    Cross– the defense pointed out that if she wasn’t given a sample of something to test, won’t have results. The expert agreed. (again, the phantom gun related, is one guess)

    Second expert, the FDLE firearms expert, re: the gun and ammunition.

    Monday, the state will be expected to offer two more witnesses and the defense could begin it’s case before end of day.

    • Trained Observer says:

      I wonder if jurors really care that much about … it’s clear from witnesses who did the shooting in three separate bursts.

      Or will defense the gun was going off all by itself?

  4. ay2z says:

    Was waiting to learn about Rouer’s relationship status with Dunn, who has been out of prison since his last trial.

    Question posed and answered about engagement– she is not engaged to Dunn. Then asked if she was still with him.

    Defense objected.

    Judge said “sustained” but quickly changed it to ‘overruled’. Rouer said ‘no’ about whether she was still with him.

    Now they are in sidebar. Taking awhile.

    • ay2z says:

      Side bar over.

      Defense cross now.

      • ay2z says:

        Q’s about her engagement and living together, how well she knew the defendant.

        Points out, he was a pretty mellow kind of guy, not confrontational type… (objection sustained).

        And Q she was important person in his life and he cared about her feelings.

        Q about drinkies at wedding, size of Dunn as heavy, size of drinks etc. Says he was heavier back then, than today.

    • Trained Observer says:

      NO … Dunn has NOT been out on bail since his last trial. He’s been stewing in his own juice in the county jail awaiting sentencing for his attempted murder convictions.

      • ay2z says:

        Thanks for the correction and great to hear it! I thought he had been out until sentencing, must have misunerstood.

        • Trained Observer says:

          There’s been a lot of hassle over whether he should be sentenced for the attempted murder convictions prior to the M1 retrial …. Duval County doesn’t want to pay to house him at the county jail when he’s destined to head to a state slammer (where condition are far less hospitable.) But Healey refused to expedite that with sentencing before the retrial.

          But yes, it’s been almost a couple of years since he’s had one of those rum & Cokes. None in his future either.

  5. Trained Observer says:

    OK … here’s the deal on the juror #4 , now history ….

  6. ay2z says:

    State calls Rhonda Rouer.

  7. ay2z says:

    Lunch break, the judge needing to meet with the attorneys now, along with the court reporter.

    • ay2z says:

      Detective Karen Smith (former detective, now dir. of forensic education, CSI and teaches adjunct U of Tennessee)

      Major case evidence/crime scene tech at the time, at Jacksonville sheriff’s office.

  8. Trained Observer says:

    Why was Juror # 4 dumped?

    • ay2z says:

      Good Morning, TO,

      That’s all the judge told the jury when they came in, as he apologized. Nothing more, suppose that is not something he would be telling the jury at this point of the day anyway.

      • ay2z says:

        no 4? I didn’t hear the judge mention a specific ID for the juror, but that’s familiar from something yesterday or the day before? (the original juror number was something like 27….. I didn’t make note, and can’t think of what the comment was about Juror 4. Might think of it.

        • ay2z says:

          Was that the juror who could set aside an opinion about the case?

          • Trained Observer says:

            Don’t remember. Just saw a comment (not here) this ayem that #4 had been dismissed.

            Time will tell, I guess, as moss grows on our faces while we continue to listen to pathetic attempts to create a weapon to justify Dunnster’s “fear for his life” before he drover off for a rum and Coke.

          • ay2z says:

            Yes, the phantom weapon, the quad or triple barrel shotgun with white rubber tips on each barrel.

            Thing is, IF there were a gun, a violent ‘gang’ would have used it, and blasted their way out of there, tossing it far from the scene if need be.

            And the defense wants to rely on the impression of a young couple who said in 911 call, look like someone is stashing something in the back of the car. That is a reasonable but terribly wrong assumption, but responsible to call 911 and give an ‘impression’ which is obviously someone who has just heard a lot of gunfire, and a vehicle that drove away for some reason– because THEY were attacked and had to escape, and had a dying friend in the back seat to check on. They were still in a risky situation, the gunman could have finished them all before leaving the property. They had no defence against a gunman doing that, they weren’t even thinking clearly about anything but what just happened and was happening to Jordan.

        • Sophia33 says:

          Please tell me that juror number 4 is not the only black one?

          • ay2z says:

            Sophia, Jax4 news is reporting that the juror was a white male:

            “That juror was described as a white man who is married with one young child. He is a teacher who has lived in the Jacksonville area for 44 years and has many friends in law enforcement. He was dismissed.

            The trial resumed at about 10:30 a.m.”

            Sounds like the juror was a former writer (Folio) who quoted someone criticising Angela Corey.

          • Sophia33 says:


            That may be a blessing in disguise that this juror was dismissed.

          • ay2z says:

            And, in addition, the juror repeated the quote in front of the potential jurors. That was dumb move, he may have wanted off the jury or wanted to taint others, why couldn’t he have asked to answer that question out of the presense of other jurors. But if writers who use quotes in articles, not necessarily their own views in opinion pieces, a lot of journalists and writers are eliminated from the jury pool.

  9. ay2z says:

    Ready to proceed, jurors coming in. (above first coast news website)

    Defense is going for the suggestion that Jordan was out of the car in some fashion or another. (seems so)

    • ay2z says:

      Delay for start this AM was one juror issue that caused that juror to be excused.

      1st witness, Deputy Siniscal, Brevard Cty.

      • ay2z says:

        Siniscal was the arresting officer.

        Next witness, Philip Miranda, the crime scene investigator who responded to the arrest scene/residence, home and residence, vehicle.

        (photographer will probably be up next)

  10. ay2z says:

    BTW, trial is livestreaming today. The court image is up and background noises and voices active, but they just shut the audio off.

    Don’t know when the start time is (or was) for today, Saturday, maybe the next half past the hour.

  11. Trained Observer says:

    Defense attorney pleasant enough … and seems to be going nowhere other than to fish. Dunnster must be beside himself, wishing to have Strolla back with his histrionics

  12. Trained Observer says:

    Friday … things seem to moving along well. Dunn looks like he needs a shampoo. Wish the courtroom camera view were more like that of the Z trial so we could see the Dunnster’s face.

  13. ay2z says:

    Defense is going for ‘shotgun or similar’ threat. Jordan escalated the situation, she emphasizes ‘threat’, ‘threats to kill’, and bad language.

    And interestingly, she says all bullets shot in a sequence, no hesitation between firing, no time to think, so backing up the vehicle was never a withdrawal by the car and its passengers, but obviously they claim it was still a threat.

    And the Durango door was ‘open’ when shots were fired.

    Hope the state has prepared. John Guy was good, but he used the ‘head’ ‘heart’ and ‘guts’ statement as he did with fogen’s trial.

    Angela Corey starts with first witness– the general contractor who stopped at the Gate store.

  14. JJ says:

    Link to live stream for Dunn trial:

    • Trained Observer says:

      Thanks for link. … Can’t figure out where defense is going with Kevin Thompson. Who cares how long anybody had known whoever?

      • fauxmccoy says:

        it’s all bullshit in her own mind. probably trying to make the case that they were out on the town, literally looking for some street cred and having a gun shot in their direction and having a friend die would make for some excellent rap music. they planned the whole thing, you see. all they needed was for some white dupe like dunn to show up and they’d get rich quick with their latest hit song.

        pardon me, but this woman is disgusting, beyond words and beneath contempt.

        • Trained Observer says:

          Faux … We must hold out a bit of pity any public defender attempting to defend Mr. Rum & Coke, pizza and a movie with his babe after a cold-blooded murder.

          It will be one fine day when Healey sticks it to Dunn at sentencing, hopefully for the whole enchilada including M1, not just the attempted murder charge convictions.

  15. J4TMinATL says:

    A video apology to Brown family from police chief ….GTFO

  16. J4TMinATL says:

    Just catching up now on jurors. If you are too, here is a good link.

    Curious about No. 12. Did defense try to strike because of knowing someone (don’t know who) on prosecution?

    As far as racial makeup, rolls eyes….F Florida.

  17. fauxmccoy says:

    best i can tell is that opening statements begin at 12:

    • Susan says:

      Good question! Have you read about the shooting in SC? Another white cop shot, but did not kill, a man who was being pulled over due to a seat belt violation! There is just NO way that shooting was justified. It’s horrible to watch.

  18. ay2z says:

    Michael Dunn (re-) trial starts this afternoon. The livestream is now up and working in prep for the opening statements. (FCN link)

    Jury was bussed to their hotel this AM, got settled and will be having lunch before the trial starts. One court reporter said Juror no 4 wants to be sure they don’t miss any weekend football games. Judge Healey said they would have court on Saturdays.

  19. J4TMinATL says:

    Atty General Eric Holder resigned.

  20. girlp says:

    This is the way it should go when a cop shoots a person posing no threat to anyone.

  21. MKX says:

    An interesting article about the “attitudes” of those nice, objective white people who live in Beavercreek where Crawford was gunned down with impunity.

    Some quotes from the linked article:

    ‘…Facing the prospect of buses coming in from Dayton, the Beavercreek City Council began enacting as many hurdles as they could to stop the new bus stops. Among the dozen roadblocks included mandating that bus shelters included heated and air conditioning as well as high-tech surveillance cameras, features that would be hugely expensive and are not common at other stops. Unsurprisingly, these demands couldn’t be met and the council rejected the expansion. “We turned downed an application because they didn’t meet our (design) criteria,” Beavercreek City Councilman Scott Hadley explained to Eye On Ohio.

    Many in the area argue that their opposition boils down to a simple reason: race. According to the 2010 census, 9 in 10 Beavercreek residents are white, but 73 percent of those who ride the Dayton RTA buses are minorities. “I can’t see anything else but it being a racial thing,” Sam Gresham, state chair of Common Cause Ohio, a public interest advocacy group, told ThinkProgress. “They don’t want African Americans going on a consistent basis to Beavercreek.”…’

    BTW, one of the proposed bus stops was in front of the Wall Mart where Crawford was killed.

    “Segregation now, segregation forever” in the Conservative States of America.

    That line was from George Wallace. George got a huge number of votes from white flight Democrats during the 1968 and 1972 primary elections. These people became the Reagan Democrats who tipped the 1980 election his way.

  22. ay2z says:

    Dunn jury chosen.

    “Majority white and male jury chosen in Michael Dunn murder retrial
    By Larry Hannan Wed, Sep 24, 2014

    After three days of jury selection a jury was picked Wednesday afternoon that is made up of seven white men, three white women, one black man and one black woman.”

    Hope the state knows what it’s doing this time around.

  23. sparger says:

    Watch the videos of the shooting.The cop angle is really pathetic. They have him in sight for a second and start shooting.. I think they see him and start shooting.

    • MKX says:

      Unlike with the white man who had a gun, they made absolutely no attempt to assess the situation. No, they just went into full assault mode and killed him.

      Maybe I am not as bright as these police, but wouldn’t it have been a good idea to send one officer in to do a recon and assessment. You know, walk up to the aisle Crawford was in and spy.

      Protect and serve includes Crawford in that the call could have been made by a lying a paranoid delusional nut – which it was.

      No, not in the CSA – Conservative States of America. In the CSA, the paranoid ravings of insecure white men are assumed to always be true.

    • Susan says:

      Thank you for posting the video, Sparger. I am unable to post links, but if you go to YouTube, then search “special prosecutor
      Grand jury declines to ind, you can watch the press conference given today. They include extended video of what lead up to the shooting. This video hasnt been shown before to my knowledge. The press conference was very eye opening and explains why the grand jury came to their decision. If interested, watch it for yourself and see how you interpret this young mans actions.

      • sparger says:

        I watched all the videos. The cops are scared idiots when it comes to blacks. Shoot first ask questions later. They shoot him as soon as they see him.

    • Susan says:

      As sad as it is, the young mans behavior was reckless. What exactly was he doing walking around with a rifle on his shoulder in a Walmart? It got the attention of several people and it had to be a scary sight. What are shoppers to think?? What would YOU think? I personally would have ran in the opposite direction. In the video of the actual shooting he appears to be talking with police, slightly raising and lowering the rifle a couple of times before he was shot. Conversation that included telling him to drop the gun!

      • girlp says:

        The video has not been released. He was shot in the back and was not pointing the gun at anyone. Also, Ohio is an open carry state…for white people I guess.

      • girlp says:

        I was wrong they have released part of the video, he was not doing anything wrong was not waving the gun, no one was afraid of him. He did nothing for anyone to call the police. He has a right to carry the empty pellet gun around if he wants Ohio is open carry but I guess if your black the law doesn’t apply.

        • Susan says:

          Apparently someone was afraid of him. Walmart security was called, as well as the police. He may have the right to carry an empty pellet gun around, but how is anyone to know its a pellet gun and how does anyone know its empty? I am baffled as to WHY he would pick it up and just start carrying it around like he did. Putting it over his shoulder looked intimidating. I’m even more baffled as to why he didnt drop the rifle when ordered to. It’s just tragic, but I understand why the police were not charged in this case.

          • a2nite says:

            To Susan,

            He wasn’t reckless. He was black. If he was white, he’d be alive. If the police didn’t work for evil white supremacists, he’d be alive.

            The police were reckless for firing in a store without evacuating people.

            Another pass for the police for murdering a black man because

          • fauxmccoy says:

            have you seen the video? your claims contradict many of the eye witnesses including the sales clerk and the young man who called 911. also, he was on the phone when the cops arrived, he never heard them, but a loved one heard him die.

            one wonders where you get your info and if you bother to check other sources.

            check out the entire video — especially the part where the BB gun had been clearly dropped for some time prior to the victim being shot.


          • fauxmccoy says:

            to reiterate — susan thinks you can shoot folks if someone claims to be afraid. BB guns are pretty damn obvious to average folks and sure as hell are to the po-po.

            your version of events is so messed up, i hardly know where to begin.

          • roderick2012 says:

            Susan the guy who called 911 has admitted that he lied.

            He even lied about being in the military–he was discharged for lying on his application.

            There’s a story in the Guardian about the 911 caller.

            Also if the victim had been pointing the gun at customers why did only one person feel ‘threatened’ enough to call 911?

            And then the cops shot him while he had his back to them.

            Even Ohio’s Attorney General Dewine is afraid to release the video to the public because it would be ‘explosive’.

      • sparger says:

        Have you seen the video. There are people walking by him and not to pressed to get away from him. Cops saw black and starting shooting. The video is boring. The cops come out of nowhere and start shooting. He is on the ground and they are over him and don’t even try to kick the gun away from the dangerous criminal. Also Ohio is open carry state.

        • girlp says:

          He was doing nothing wrong just walking did not threaten anyone the rifle wasn’t even loaded. He was either checking the gun out or intended to buy it.

      • Annie Cabani says:

        Hmmm….. Is anybody else hearing one or both of these?

        “The [black victim] Shouldn’t Have [insert human action here]” Troll

        — and / or —

        A Misinformation Bot

      • MKX says:

        Susan, please watch this video because this is how law enforcement should handle a situation that deal with a gun toting man:

      • MKX says:

        Now, after watching that video, ask yourself why John Crawford was given no benefit of the doubt and gunned down like a wild animal. Here is your answer:

  24. PhillyBoyRoy says:

    I just saw someone at a gas station get out of the back seat of their car. They got shot a few seconds later. When the cops arrived and we mentioned how this person got out of the car before being shot, they immediately closed the case and let the shooter go. Not murder, obviously.

  25. ay2z says:

    Noon break for jury selection, report snippet from First Coast News.

    “A total of 10 jurors were dismissed Tuesday morning. The second half will come in later in the afternoon for more questions.

    Judge Healey hopes to seat roughly 65 potential jurors who pass the initial round of questioning and begin a deeper probe Tuesday afternoon.”

  26. Malisha says:

    OK, this bozo:

    Look at the requirements about the person breaching white house security before the officers shoot. Lots of requirements. So how are we to explain that it’s OK to shoot Trayvon Martin dead (looked like he was “up to no good”) and OK to shoot Michael Brown dead (“bum rushing”) but the officers protecting the POTUS have stricter regulations about shooting?

    What did I miss?

  27. ay2z says:

    Where things left off with the verdict of the last trial.

  28. ay2z says:

    Dunn’s Cap

    Not Dunn’s fault because (….. ). Wait until he surfaces again later this week on some (aka HLN) network.

    Warning. He lies too!! Imagine that!

    He’s exposed. (someone must have hacked into his mouth! )

    • ay2z says:

      “Frank Taaffe:

      * arrested or faced criminal charges at least a dozen times

      * drunk driving, stalking, domestic violence and child abuse

      * networks make NO mention of his criminal record or white-separatist ties”

      (until, the last NG show according to YTs)

      When (not ‘if’) these networks latch onto this snake in whiteface, they should be forced to listen to the audios to expose his lies. He didn’t know Dunn from Dumber.

      If networks want to show his face again, then they should do an exposé about this slimeball, not allow him to spew his racist hatred on national/international programing.

      • Malisha says:

        He says, as if it proves the criminality of African Americans, that if he broke into a KFC and killed about a dozen of them, he wouldn’t make it out the front door.

        Is it me? Is there some reason any person can find a rational core to that sentence? Is it, f’rinstance:

        “Obviously Blacks are thugs if they would kill me for shooting 12 of them for no reason other than they were buying chicken.”

        Is it:

        “African Americans are thug because they presume to defend themselves”?

        Or is it:

        “I am so entitled to kill a dozen Blacks that presuming to stop or punish me for it is criminal.”

        ’cause I just wanna know…

        • ay2z says:

          Malisha, the gun must have jammed after he sprayed off 23,762 1/2 😉 rounds.

          That would make him the victim now needing to defend himself not to make it out alive. And if he didn’t make it out alive, that would be ‘their’ fault. Does he realize what he was saying? No one left would have the right to stop him from killing again in his own senario?

          He’s making a wild assumption that any survivor must have a gun, and that any survivor with a gun must be ‘one of them’, and therefore he had fear for his life, bein’ the victim of his dumb gun and all.

          His stupidity is beyond belief.

    • Sophia33 says:

      Fogen friend has turned against Fogen and has now said he was “sorry” and found God. He NOW says that he believes Fogen did racially profile Trayvon Martin. Says he wants to “clear his conscience.

      • Sophia33 says:

        It’s funny how Fogen’s friends realized he was a murderer AFTER everyone else did.

      • Malisha says:

        It’s old news. That Taaffe turnaround happened when he thought he could get into the TV-circuit again because of the suit against NBC. When that melted away (again, thanks to the ministrations of Debra Nelson, who did NOT want a civil jury deliberating on what took place in the case!) Taaffe went off to do other racist things that gave him the memory of “a cheap thrill.”

        In this country, the presence of “the bad-guy thug Blacks” is the thrill drug of the underclass, who otherwise (without this convenient always-available “other underclass” to afflict) would be the “bad-guy thugs” themselves. So the only way they elevate their flagging egos and their flaccid ______s is by always pontificating on the wrongness of the REAL “underclass” of bad-guy black thugs.

        That’s Taaffe. Can’t get it up so he puts somebody down. Apparently not too many girls are simpering over him any more; his ex-wife has a protective order and his kids publicly hate and repudiate him. His Fogen Fame is over and he casts about for some other way to feel like a man.

        So he fantasizes going into a KFC and shooting a dozen Blacks — and then making it out of the door alive! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

        • Sophia33 says:

          I thought his kids were dead. Any how, I hope his conscience continues to hound him for the rest of this days. That is of course making the big assumption that he is not a sociopath.

          • Malisha says:

            Sons have both died. (First death was likely a suicide.) He has at least one daughter, remaining. Protective order against father coming near her and he had to go to separate funeral for his own son so as not to be near other family. His second son to die (car crash I believe) repudiated him before dying. Published about Taaffe extremely negative on Internet during the Fogen scandal.

          • Sophia33 says:


            I never new that his kids that he goes on and on about had issues with him. I never paid Taaffe that much attention.

    • MKX says:

      How pathetic this man is.

      The fixation on KFC because, you know, they all eat fried chicken.

      The circumstances of my life gave me a unique view of the divide between black and white in the USA. My father spent the winter in a part of Detroit that was/is 95% black and the summer in a small town up north that is 99% white.

      And what was a popular eating joint, “up north”?


      Taffe and the rest of his ilk can eat shit and die.

      When my father tripped over a sign stub and broke his wrist, it was a bunch of those evil black teens from the then still active Redford HS, who helped him.

      And if an 85 year old man was not afraid to walk amongst them, then what does that make Taffe, Zimmerman or Dunne?


  29. ay2z says:

    Prosecution, last trial:

    Prosecutor: “Once you got back into the car after leaving the gas station, did Dunn ever tell you he saw a weapon of any kind in the SUV?”
    Rouer: “No.”
    Prosecutor: “No mention of a stick?”
    Rouer: “No.”
    Prosecutor: “Shotgun?”
    Rouer: “No.”
    Prosecutor: “Lead pipe?”
    Rouer: “No.”

    Defense, last trial (the opening of the inherant prejudice/bias door for jurors–

    “What isn’t known is whether the new defense attorney will call the victim’s father, Ron Davis, to testify. During the first trial, defense attorney Cory Strolla tried to get the elder Davis to say he met with the other boys in the SUV to try to get all their stories straight — something he and prosecutors vehemently denied.”

    This is the danger lurking for choice of jurors who carry something they can’t shake and may not even realize they can’t.

    • PhillyBoyRoy says:

      Interesting tactic but it won’t work. There’s no dispute that Dunn killed Davis. He admits it.

      Well, it *shouldn’t* work. But it might work. It’s Florida, after all.

      Similar to how Rachael’s testimony was considered inaccurate because she was black. Jurors preferred to believe the accused’s “homie” story over what a witness actually heard.

      Or how Fogen was able to steal Trayvon’s screams as his own, and convince the jury (and most of the general public – thanks, “liberal” media!) that the screams were in dispute, despite the fact that ALL logic pointed to the screams NOT being Fogen’s.

      Anyway, in the upcoming retrial, the slimy racist Dunn will go with the Ron-Davis-conspired-with-the-black-teens-to-get-their-gun-tossing-story-straight defense, and Florida’s slimy, racist jurors might buy it.

      • Malisha says:

        The screams were also identified as NOT FROM FOGEN by two highly qualified sound experts, but they were not permitted to testify. Judge fixes case.

  30. ay2z says:

    michelleo, well sure seems this defendant was steeped in that ignorance.

    From jax4 (hope they are giving an unbiased account, can’t really help that from the courthouse jury selection on basic stats so far at least.

    “Michael Dunn’s second murder trial begins with jury selection
    Published On: Sep 21 2014 05:53:29 PM EDT”

    Quoting few posts from the “Blog/Tweets from Courthouse” on the jax4 page:

    Vic Micolucci – WJXT@WJXTvicJudge Healey asking for 40 more potential jurors tomorrow and another 40 more Wednesday, just in case. (#MichaelDunn retrial)

    Vic Micolucci – WJXT@WJXTvicSo far- 29 potential #MichaelDunn jurors dismissed, 42 flagged for further questioning. (Day1 #DunnTrial jury selection)”

    Hailey Winslow@WJXTHaileyState Attorney Angela Corey asks judge to remind potential jurors that the death penalty is off the table. #MichaelDunn”

    • Malisha says:

      Can you imagine if a Black man (whose girlfriend was inside a convenience store buying booze) shot into a car full of white teenagers and killed one out of the four of them, after which he continued to pump bullets into the fleeing vehicle? Do you think the death penalty would have been off the table?

  31. michelleo says:

    God bless that young man. I know Jacksonville very well, and it is a hell hole of backwards prejudice and uncalled for racial suspicion. I hate that place.

  32. ay2z says:

    Docket link, with links provided at top right for the public ‘lottery’ for seats.

  33. ay2z says:

    fauxmccoy (nice to see you again, btw!), a jax4 article says that no public will be allowed in the courtroom, but will be allowed (lottery system set up) in from opening statements to verdict.

    So looks like the selection process is closed to public.

  34. fauxmccoy says:

    best i can find — a curated twitter feed from the dream defenders

  35. fauxmccoy says:

    according to facebook page ‘the state vs. michael dunn”

    Jury selection begins Monday morning. No live stream until opening statements.


  36. fauxmccoy says:

    so, jury selection was to start at 9:30 AM EDT, it’s now slightly past that. i cannot find a live stream that is broadcasting — no great seal of florida even. anyone else having any luck?

  37. fauxmccoy says:

    this link may work — not yet known, but it is a recent post and refers to second trial, so i have high hopes

  38. fauxmccoy says:

    anyone with any luck finding a live stream of jury selection?

    i have found the following, channel 2 from california, oddly enough. so far, i’ve seen no trial footage.

    • Annie Cabani says:

      Thanks for the link, faux. It’s only 8:30 on the east coast. They’re probably still getting the jurors signed in and oriented.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        yup — i cannot even tell if this is a link for the second trial or an old link that is just hanging around the net. i’ll keep looking. good morning!

  39. Two sides to a story says:

    Oh dear. The nameless one is appearing at gun shows and painting again. Oh, the Twitter death threats – quite the exaggeration.

    • MKX says:

      His strict Catholic upbringing is showing. He is desperately roaming around trying to set up a situation wherein he can commit a “heroic” act that will atone for his past “mistake”.

      And that, given his inability to rationally assess a situation, makes him dangerous.

      He is obviously paranoid about all the people “out there” who think he was guilty. The guy he threatened in the road rage incident got a taste of that – “why are you gesturing at me?”

      He is a big time bomb.

    • Disappointed says:

      OMG the “story” refers to Fogen as a celebrity. As an American- today is a sad day. When we lower the bar so low that we refer to a fat ignorant f:– as a celebrity. How do we even come back from this? Disgusting. Fogen in my opinion is like dog crap on my shoes. :/

    • Diamonique says:

      From the above-linked article:

      — He said people have told him to use aliases, but he said “I’m not able to lie.” —

      Oh really?

    • B says:

      He’s so arrogant he believes a veterans organization would want his donations ? I hope they would have the common sense to tell this disgraceful American to take his paintings and shove em!

    • bettykath says:

      Put your coffee down, folks. Here’s the quote of the day from fogen…..

      He said people have told him to use aliases, but he said “I’m not able to lie.”

      • He’s still feeling sorry for himself and quoting bible verses on Twitter. Here’s his latest ::

        Sometimes u were publicly exposed to insult and persecution; at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated.

        We can be certain the former alter boy turned murderer will never quote the 5th commandment or the golden rule.

      • MKX says:

        I think this one applies to George and the rest of his family:

        Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        He wouldn’t be the first narcissist or sociopath to make that claim! SMH.

      • girlp says:

        House say’s everybody lies, I mean are you going to tell someone they have a ugly house and your interior decorating is awful….your most likely to say nice house. We all know how much and how well he lies we saw that in court and in the over 300 pages of interviews during the investigation.

  40. Trisha0620 says:

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    for handling the media in an officer-involved shooting) topics will include:
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    yes this is real check it out

    Click to access Mediashoot.pdf

  41. Malisha says:

    Interesting article on Pistorius case:

    I believe what the BBC reported, that when arrested Oscar Pistorius said “I’ll survive; I always win.” That has the ring of truth.

  42. Malisha says:

    Yeah. Why isn’t Jimmy Carter writing about Apartheid here? Why isn’t he writing about the persistent permissible murder of young Black men in this country? Why isn’t there already an international outcry against the US “police” [read “supremacist defense force”] randomly killing off restrained and/or defenseless African Americans without due process?

    • MKX says:

      One of the great conservative lies is that apartheid only existed in the South and forced integration measures by the Federal Government ended it, thus creating equal opportunity for all.

      It ignores the fact that real estate covenants, FHA lending practices and law enforcement created a de facto Apartheid in most, if not all, major metropolitan areas in the USA that exists to this day.

      I have a friend with a mechanical engineering degree who told me her family, when they moved to the Flint suburb of Davison, were give a “welcome neighbor” of having bags of shit thrown on their lawn and other acts that need not be mentioned.

      And the conservatives will make the lame argument that the “free market” allows people to choose who they want to live with.


      Real estate is an asset and, as such, nobody should be excluded from purchasing an asset based on how they look. Excluding a person from buying property based on their appearance is an “non-free” as excluding purchasing stock based on ethnicity.

      Sure, one is free to move away from those they are afraid of. But they are not free to harass, intimidate or exclude others who also want to move.

      Until we admit the truth about our past and present, we will never be free.

      For example, the War on Blacks {drugs} is clearly a form of ethnic intimidation.

  43. fauxmccoy says:

    next up, georgia! in which the savannah police arrested a man, presumably frisked him, cuffed him and put him in a cruiser. minutes later, the cops ‘had’ to kill him because handcuffed dude somehow got his hands to the front of his body, had ‘found’ a gun that was overlooked, had kicked out the cruiser window and was threatening coppers with a gun.

    yeah, i don’t believe it either.

    • Malisha says:

      Try kicking out the window of a patrol car some day.
      What kind of shoes was he wearing, the kind Kendrick Johnson was trying to reach inside a rolled up gym mat?
      In fact, try kicking out the window of any car, from inside.
      I don’t think so.
      AND if you have a gun and your hands are in front of you, why kick? Shoot that mother out!
      Oh, but I forgot. Black thug. That explains it. 👿
      I guess it’s just another administrative leave type case.
      Until we begin to see we have a civil war going on here.

  44. fauxmccoy says:

    sooooo wanting to just vote florida off the island in exchange for puerto rico (with apologies to tower flower et al)

    a convicted felon who should have never had access to firearm kills his daughter, 6 grandchildren (ranging from 2 months to 10 years) and finally himself.

    • Malisha says:

      Since this guy killed his own son in 2001 and served three years for it fro 2003 until presumably 2006, and since he even had a felony conviction BEFORE that, it’s pretty obvious to me that he should have had neither (a) guns nor (b) children around him in 2014. The only reason he had either his freedom or his guns is, obviously, that he was white. A Black man with one drug conviction and one homicide conviction would not have even been out of prison by now (Also if he were Black he would have had MORE than one drug conviction and one homicide conviction; he would have had a rap sheet proverbially “as long as his arm.”)

      Furthermore, now I’m thinking there was more than the good-ole generalized “went crazy” explanation. I’m thinking there was a long trail of child abuse that had gone unattended by the county child protection system because the town he lived in was “a family.”

      Perhaps the mother of the grandchildren was about to reveal something about daddy that he didn’t want to face.

      • “Perhaps the mother of the grandchildren was about to reveal something about daddy that he didn’t want to face”

        Malisha,perhaps you nailed,but probably it will keep it under wrap,already police are saying they never will find out
        why the shooting happened.

        We will know the truth because word of. mouth

  45. ay2z says:

    Dunn trial to be livestreamed?

  46. ay2z says:

    Before you leave, Bardarbunga is putting on a fresh light show just to light your path. (you know there were theories floating around that you and Crane were adventuring with the Euro news crew up there on the glacier gravel fields and flying over the spectacle on your adventure 🙂

    The cameras have been dark the last couple nights, over in the largest glacier in Iceland, and today it was rain and cloud, nothing colourful, but tonight, the air has been cleared and it’s quite a light show.

    Notice the flashing light towards the right? Seems a trailer for research, big white dome top and what looks like a generator next to it (screenshot enlarged daylight view). The flashing is the camera delay caused.

    Bring lots of great photos of the lava flow, Crane and Fred!!

    Keep safe on your continued adventure, and don’t eat too much fish o’filets while in Iceland!!

    Your home here is safe with us!

  47. Malisha says:

    Read this comment about the Oscar Pistorius decision:

    The system in any country is a human system. It is fallible but we should at least welcome that a dignified and intelligent black woman judge was appointed and had the courage to make tough decisions in a terrible case. South Africa’s continuing gun crime woes have been exposed and Pistorius clearly needs therapy. With time and effort these can be fixed. Nothing can bring back Reeva Steenkamp, and my last thought is for her mum.

    The part that got me was “Pistorius clearly needs therapy.”

    Killers SHOULD get therapy. But ALL of them, not just Oscar. We shouldn’t be locking these people up or throwing them in solitary or having the state kill them. ALL people who kill should be given therapy. In Africa, here, everywhere. We shouldn’t hurt them; that only makes them more upset and angry; we need to give them therapy.

  48. Malisha says:

    They’ll use a video recreation. In that video recreation, a tank full of Black terrorists from Ouagadougou will drive up to the little American car driven by Dunn (while the love of his life was in the convenience store buying booze) and they will pull out 4 uzis, a Russian-made rocket launcher, a submarine-mounted atomic cannon, and a partridge in a pear tree (LOADED with dangerous pears). These dangerous murderous terrorist “thugs” will play loud music in order to prevent people inside the convenience store from hearing the attack when their purpose was to murder the poor beleaguered good American Michael Dunn. Only Dunn’s heroic combat-style defense prevented another 9/11 from occurring, and the end of the trial will be closing arguments playing “God Bless America” so that Dunn can be acquitted.

    Did I leave anything out?

  49. roderick2012 says:

    Let’s hope the State enters Bendi into evidence this time.

      • roderick2012 says:

        UPDATE (2-13): 1:45PMJury asks if they can see “Bendie,” the dummy with the trajectory dowels. Normally such demonstrative evidence would not go back to jury. Healey suggests he’ll allow if the defense has no objection. Strolla doesn’t initially object, but then turns out that the dowels in Bendie were moved around since last seen in court, no longer representative, so objects. Bendie won’t go back. Healey writes out explanatory note for bailiff to give to jurors. Calls jurors into court room, reads them the note, “can’t send dummy back because it was demonstrative exhibit for demonstrative purposes, not entered into evidence.” Sends them back to continue their deliberations.

        UPDATE (2-13): 1:20PM Jury asks if they can be provided with the “trajectory-rod dummy.” Problem is, dummy is demonstrative evidence only, normally would not go back to jury room. State has no objection. Strolla and Dunn discuss briefly in separate room, return and say they also have no objection. Healey, in abundance of caution, recesses for 15 minutes so case law can be reviewed, ensure they don’t inadvertently make a move that could result in reversal.

  50. MKX says:

    Knox is probably cut from the same cloth as that use of force expert who testified in favor of Zimmerman. They know all about the special properties that “the Blacks” possess.

    This guy will have a video wherein Jordan has to twist like a pretzel in order for the holes to line up, but that will be “explained” by the “fact” that “the Blacks” have special bones and tendons.

    I mean the other ass for brains felt it was a “fact” the Trayvon was an “expert” puncher because he looked “athletic”.

    Hell, in Zimmerman’s dog and pony show, the judge allowed a cardboard cut out to be bandied about that made Trayvon much “bigger” than George, although George weighed 33% more.

    Doesn’t more mass mean more size?

    Not in racist shit for brains land.

    For they know for a “fact” that the cells of “the Blacks” are less dense than for “the Whites”. That’s why they are faster.

  51. racerrodig says:

    Firearms experts are really good at 1 thing…….well 2 and both things are pretty ugly.

    Hint……one item involves how it’s a nonchalant reaction to shoot someone for, well… real reason. Hell, that’s what carrying a gun is all about.

    We all determined that Duhhnnnn’s shot was as impossible as FogenPhoole’s, but, hey, this is FL. the gunshine state.

    Of course, I’ll love seeing how the defense argues the “…..I then got on one knee, you know, a classic combat stance, and made sure I keep their heads down, you know…….’cuz, well, I did see that stick, er, shotgun barrel.”

    Can’t wait to hear that stupid timid little girlie voice either……grrrrrr.

  52. Malisha says:

    To me, if the judge declares the real expert unqualified (shades of the voice expert decision in Fogen’s trial), the scoreboard should not light up with “ERROR” but with “CORRUPTION”!

    Why don’t they bring in that South African geologist to protect Dunn?

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