What is an Allen charge in Florida?

Saturday, February 15, 2914

Good afternoon:

The jury has reached a verdict on 4 of the 5 counts. It is hung on count 1, which charges Dunn with first degree murder for the death of Jordan Davis.

We do not know if those verdicts are guilty, not guilty or some combination of the two.

When a jury advises the court that it cannot reach a verdict, the court will give an Allen charge, which is an order to return to the jury room and do the following: each juror has to identify the weaknesses in his position without comment by the others. Then they deliberate again and if they cannot agree, the foreperson is to so advise the court and the court will declare a mistrial as to that count.

380 Responses to What is an Allen charge in Florida?

  1. Lonnie Starr says:

    Breaking: GZ now claims he’s homeless and suffering from PTSD.
    If he had confessed to his crime he’d have a home now.

  2. JJ says:

    If Jordan would have been alone, there would not have been any justice at all. Dunn would be home eating pizza with a glass of wine. Will the state be able too convict fodung for murder when he is using Stand Your Ground. Is SYG a license to murder without consequences?
    Defense tries to create doubt by saying the boys dumped the gun and came back. But OTOH, if someone was shooting at me, I’d drive away too.
    Angela explained that the state could not produce character witnesses for Jordan or it would be a basis for an appeal. Another lawyer said that they couldn’t use witnesses to attack fodung’s character – grounds for an appeal. They also said that the defense “always” attacks the character of the victim.
    Unless the state can convict on Count 1, this will provide yet another example of how someone can shoot and kill anyone and get away with it in Florida. I’m looking forward to the trial of the retired cop who shot the young father in a Tampa theater when the father threw popcorn at the retired cop.

  3. Malisha says:

    Think of this: Chuck Hendrix (once neighbor to FoDung for 8 years) said that FoDung believes he’s smarter than everybody. So he’s there in his cell tonight (unless they let him use the phone all night) thinking to himself how it’s not possible for him to have been attempting murder on the three survivors if he is not guilty of murder of the victim. So he’s in there having mental FITS about how he was wrongly convicted and he’s gonna straighten everybody out. All those bad and wrong people who think they’re allowed to convict him of something he says he didn’t do. Shame on them. He’s working himself into a lather of contempt and disdain for the people who NOW have shown they have POWER over HIM!

    Think of it. It has given me some great measure of comfort.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Had wondered why Chuck Hendrix was never brought to the stand. I assume he, too, has some baggage, and State wanted to keep things streamlined.

      Your scenario above is most satisfying, For added pleasure, consider this: Everyone else goes out after court recessed for the steak/lobster tail dinner or Chinese take-out Dunn had planned to have, while he goes back to his cell and gets and maybe some Cheetos.

      Also, for the first time, it will begin to dawn on him that it’s over. He’s no longer awaiting trial. He’s had it and he lost on four counts. Plus he could still go down on Count 1 at a re-try. No matter what, he’s in the clink for life. And soon, he’ll be out of the news. A forgotten thug among thugs at a state pen. .

  4. fauxmccoy says:

    Sunny Hostin ‏@SunnyHostin 1h

    “@markgeragos: Sonny, I feel violated pic.twitter.com/IYKx5DBtuG” He is even dreamier in person.


    Hide photo
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  5. fauxmccoy says:

    well folks, sorry i was absent for all of the excitement. i was playing chauffeur to a bunch of teens (and listening to LOUD music in an SUV!). i also had my tablet set to CNN so i could see the news come in. this is exactly the verdict i was expecting but i still want to see this muthafucker go down for M1.

    i can empathize with the disappointment some of y’all feel, but ultimately, this is a life sentence on it’s own and that does my heart good.

  6. Girlp says:

    Happy to hear that Corey is going to retry for murder 1.

  7. JJ says:

    Angela Cory spoke afterwards. They plan to talk to the family in the coming weeks. Cory wants to retry, but it sounded like she would talk it over with the family.
    It was also mentioned by someone else that Dunn has nothing to lose. In order to get a guilty verdict for Count 1, they may have to plea bargain with Dunn. That would be really sad. I’d rather hope that the family can be happy with the fact that the majority of public opinion believes it is murder. Having another trial and giving up part of Dunn’s sentence to get a guilty verdict seems like a win-win for Dunn – and the only satisfaction the family gets is an official guilty verdict by the court.

    • Malisha says:

      They shouldn’t have to offer a plea bargain to get anything from Dunn; let them retry him for murder 1 and have lesser includeds of murder 2 and manslaughter. If he ends up acquitted of murder altogether let him go to prison for his 75 years and so damn what? If he’s convicted, LWOP.

  8. Sophia33 says:

    Yes, I’m happy that Dunn’s smug, psychopathic ass will be in prison for the rest of his life. However, I am very upset that the message sent about the death of Jordan Davis. Essentially, what this verdict says is had Dunn killed all 4 teens in the car, there would not have been any conviction tonight. I also have to wonder what would have happened if there weren’t 2 black women on the jury.

    • Sophia33 says:

      The difference between Dunn’s trial and Fogen’s trial also is that there were live witnesses. Despite all of the evidence, I firmly believe that Dunn would have gotten off had he killed all 4 teens because his word would have carried more clout over the evidence.

      • Malisha says:

        Exactly my thought. He would have said they all four vowed to kill him and he saw several guns and a few flashes of light, and then the dead kids threw out the guns and anonymous thugs came and cleaned up the dumpsters and he was framed.

  9. Trained Observer says:

    Corey vows to retry on M1. Assuming that occurs, are statements Dunn made under oath at the first trial admissable in the second? What about statements made by Rhonda or other wits?

  10. neveragain says:

    «people are riding around in Florida shouting not guilty and are happy» these are the people who end up as jurors….I think potentail jutors shoulx be given polygraph test……they should be asked about tgeir feelings about different ethnicities

    • bettykath says:

      those folks don’t realize that there was no “not guilty”. They’re headed for a big disappointment when they find out he’s headed for at least 75 years and a retrial.

  11. neveragain says:

    Mistrial on the first count is a victory…..Dunn was just too stupid or he could have been a free man…..so it is a victory for them…thise that rejoice at the murder of black kids

  12. colin black says:

    Yup Jordans birth date tomorrow.

  13. colin black says:

    roderick2012 says:

    February 15, 2014 at 7:45 pm

    Since he is 47-years-old,

    Dunn looks as if he’s in his early 60′s.

    tO CLAim a differing id .

    ffs he Is 9 yrs younger than me.

    • Yeah, I agree, he does look quite a good long ways beyond age 47.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Colin, that’s what I was thinking. Dung’s looking like mid-sixties when he’s only 47. His sentence at minimum will be 60 years, possibly 75, with the maximum possible being 105 years. Essentially he’s gone down for life — even if the follow-up trial never occurs. I don’t think he’ll do well in the general population, and he’ll be surprised at how state prison differes from the cloistered confines of the county jail. I

    • fauxmccoy says:

      he’s 2 years younger than me, but looks 15-20 older and that was before his legal problems started. on the other hand, i was carded for cigarettes yesterday, i know i look younger than 49 and am pleased about it.

  14. We are planning to cover Marissa Alexander’s retrial. Notice they are discussing Florida’s 10-20-life law.

  15. Lynn says:

    People marched from the courthouse to the state attorney’s office and are demanding Angela Corey’s resignation.

    Think things through people. There is a process to show your displeasure.

  16. groans says:

    Hmmm…. I’m not sharing the joy y’all (or many) are expressing.

    It’s so insane, to me, that the jury found Dunn guilty of “attempted murder” of three live kids, but hung on all counts related to a “successful attempted murder” of a dead kid.

    That’s SO inconsistent in my view, that I have to wonder if Dunn might get the three “attempted murders” dismissed on appeal (or even some kind of post-trial motion. It just doesn’t make sense!

    • I’m with you. Glad Dunn is gone for a long time, but the case as it stands still sends a bad message. As long as my black fellow citizens are disturbed, then I am too.

      Hopefully this situation will be rectified in the coming months. Maybe the rest of Dunn’s karma will come home to roost.

    • That’s SO inconsistent in my view, that I have to wonder if Dunn might get the three “attempted murders” dismissed on appeal (or even some kind of post-trial motion. It just doesn’t make sense!


      First, the verdicts are consistent with the final 4 shots fired at the fleeing vehicle.

      Second, even assuming the verdicts are inconsistent, that is not reversible error.

      Third, I do not see reversible error in the case.

      • Trained Observer says:

        It’s good the driver (Tommy?) tried to high-tail away, driving for his life as was said in court, by Guy, I think.. Had he just sat there stunned, then lack of a fleeing vehicle might have let Fodungen get off.

    • Malisha says:

      I believe it will be upheld on appeal. FoDungen did not allege that any of the other three “thugs” had threatened him or seemed to be wielding a gun. Yet he shot at them with a gun over and over. Appeals courts do not like to overturn cases based on distinctions without differences. They will simply say that he had a right to defend himself against Davis but no right to try to kill (by second degree murder) the other three.

    • colin black says:

      I expect they had no difficulty convicting him of the death /murder of Jordan .
      Some wanted murder one some Murder two none wanted manslaughter .
      Otherwise they wouldn’t have convicted on attempt murder.

      Seems stupid to me considering there sending him away for life more or less anyway.

      Why didn’t they just compromise an all go for either one or murder two.

      All they have achieved Is yet more pain for this poor wee Boys Parents an on his birthday to.

      That verdict is the definition of nit picking.

      I E picking a nitwit jury pedantic an meticulass to a fault analytical to the anal degree if yee catch me drift.

  17. Brandy says:

    I have news for those idiots, It was a mistrial on the first charge, and their hero will be in prison for the rest of his life, how is that a win for the racist! They really are idiots! smh

  18. Trisha0620 says:

    oh geez Im not watching that interview, the man is a media whore, Im so sick of seeing him and hearing him.

  19. The overall feeling on “black twitter” is outrage and disappointment.

  20. jodiwankanobi says:

    Did Zimmerman get paid for the CNN interview?

  21. CNN just announced jury won’t take part in post-trial press conf.

  22. bettykath says:

    Thanks so much for following this trial and for all the help in understanding what’s going on.

    I’d have preferred that the count came back guilty as charged but I’m at peace with knowing that this arrogant bully is off the streets.

  23. neveragain says:

    Dunn was found guilty of aytemted murder because he kept shooting at the back of the SUV and no one was shooting back….he would have been a free man if he stopped shooting after the seVENTH shot……sad sad sad…

  24. J4TMinATL says:

    Thoughts on jurors coming back with 2nd degree attempted vs charge of first degree attempted murder?

    Strolla has issue around the juror instruction on that 3rd question from this morning and may file appeal.

    • Malisha says:

      “May file appeal” — ha ha ha my five-year plan has already begun! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!

      FoDungen better hope Fogen runs for president and wins so he can give him a presidential pardon. HA HA HA HA HA HA HAAA!!!!

    • Lynn says:

      I think most believed it was premeditated but remember, the hold-out juror/s. If they hung on count 1 it was because someone felt it was self defense. That person may have been receptive to attempted 2 with the amount of bullets and the pause to get out of the car and shoot again because that is not self defense. The hold-out doesn’t want to admit premeditation. That doesn’t fit in line with his self defense story. The other jurors know that attempted 1 or 2 makes no difference. It’s 20 yrs either way.

  25. Lynn says:

    Unlike in the GZ trial, I believe there will be jurors ready to talk right away.
    They didn’t hang on 1,2,or manslaughter. There was someone in that jury room that wouldn’t budge on self defense.

    If I tried for 4 days talking to someone til I was blue in the face about common sense and justice and what is right concerning the laws of the court and humankind, I would feel the need to let people know that my hands were tied. I would not feel like my life would be in danger and I would talk. And talk. And talk.

  26. I’m still shaking to my toes and heartbroken for Jordan’s parents. They were quite gracious – Corey is retrying the murder of JD, thank goodness . . .

    I’m also thrilled that the real thug’s karma came home to roost, partially, and getting my hopes up already for the next round.

    Donedunn could very well get the max of 30 years on each count rather than 20, which would put him at over 100 years. I have no worries at all about any of his appeals. The prosecution if anything, underworked the case and the jury seemed to do their job properly.

    Thank goodness I can get the work done tonight that I should have gotten done today!

    XOXO – to you, Professor, Crane, and all FLLB warriors!

    • Drew says:

      I hope he serves only a fraction of his sentence due to being beaten to death in jail.

      • Malisha says:

        I don’t hope he gets killed in jail; I hope he serves every single day and then gets out and dies peacefully with no family members to mourn his passing because they have all either wised up or predeceased him. Vicious lying thug bully punk.

        • racerrodig says:

          I hope he doesn’t get a scratch….I do hope he mouths off to everyone and is far short of being a model prisoner and can’t get anything as to early parole.

          I hope he gets caught trying to escape and they tack on more time…..and he doesn’t get a scratch…….maybe he’ll keep sneaking food into his cell and they tack time on for that….and he doesn’t get a scratch.

      • I’m going to assume you’re upset and don’t really mean that.

        Please moderate your comments.

      • While it’s understandable to feel that way, a nice long think-about-it is far more transformative for him and more soul-enhancing for you.

        • racerrodig says:

          I believe we are all thankful that he’s getting 75 or more years despite the main charge being hung.

          Lets face it, he didn’t beat anything. If 1 racist juror, maybe 2, tried to get this all tossed, they lost. I feel for his parents and friends real bad….it hurts, but we all know he was found guilty of murder. As hard a pill to swallow as it is, he’s Duuhhhnnn for, in all likelihood, the rest of his natural life AND facing a Murder 1 trial……how’s that for a reality.

      • Liza says:

        No, let him long for his townhouse that was right on the ocean, the love of his life, his dog Charlie, his software business, and all the perks of his former lifestyle. He will suffer in prison, hopefully for a very long time.

      • roderick2012 says:

        Drew:….due to being beaten to death in jail.

        My guess is that Dunn will be in protective custody, but who’s to say that he won’t end up alone while in the shower or some isolated part of the prison.

      • Girlp says:

        Unless he lives beyond 107 but that also depends on how the judge runs his sentances. Doesn’t Florida have a truth in sentencing law?

      • Girlp says:

        I want to live I want him to feel the loss of freedom to go where he wants, no more pizza no more rum and coke.

    • J4TMinATL says:


    • Trained Observer says:

      Yes, we can sleep well tonight and actually get some work done over this holiday weekend.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      he might well get that 30 years. it was very faint, but i got the distinct impression that healey found himself disgusted with dunn. i don’t think healey believed for a minute that there was any shotgun involved and that sentencing decision is his to make now.

  27. J4TMinATL says:

    Wow it was Wolfsons first homicide case! She did good. Corey said she put Strolla’s power point slides.

  28. neveragain says:

    So if Dunn aimed properly and made sure he had only kill Jordan, he would have been a free man…..or if he said they all threatened to kill him he would have been a free man…..this is sad…..the biased jurors who dismissed the evidence send a very strong message….they are saying please don’t keep shooting and you will be found not guilty…Dunn’s only mistake is that he kept on shooting at the SUV even when it was driving off

    • Drew says:

      I agree. It opens the door for young black teens to open fire on any fat fuck creeping around their neighborhood and/or yelling about loud music.

      Self-defense… Oops!

    • This is extremely sad. Extremely. We’d have another Fogen if Dunn had not kept firing.

    • Come on, son.

      The jury hung. They did not acquit him. They would retry him in the situation you describe.

      • neveragain says:

        Hey I know that every juror did not believe he was not guilty, but there is no reason for any one to believe that he shot in self defence…..no reasonable doubt…….

      • Well, true. They will retry him. That’s a heck of a lot better than a free pass out the door.

        But this is shaking even the black newscasters who are usually pretty stoic about this stuff.

      • jodiwankanobi says:

        I agree, I think they disagreed on what he was guilty of but certainly didn’t think he was innocent hence why they wanted to make sure it could be re tried before coming to a stalemate. Even though their other verdicts meant dunn will be going away for a long time it seems they wanted to get it right.

  29. Lynn says:

    DO I understand Wolfson? Counts 2-4 have a maximum of 30. I know 20 is the minimum. So we could potentially get 90yrs on counts 2-4 and 15 on count 4? 75 minimum up to 105 maximum.

  30. Good Lord. Wanna see how far behind Kentucky News is (local)?
    Three minutes ago, they reported this:

    KFVS News ‏@kfvsnews 3m
    Judge in ‘loud music’ trial tells jury to continue deliberating. http://bit.ly/1mjYpmc

  31. jodiwankanobi says:

    Well done jury….well done

    • Drew says:

      The racist white jurors want it both ways:

      In their vile imaginations, black teenagers would pull a gun on a fat fuck yelling about their loud music.

      But in that same sick, twisted imagination, they believe those same FIVE thugs would not go down shooting, but driving away and throwing the gun out the window, despite zero crime being committed?

      That’d be like if someone threatened to break into my home, I held them off by wielding a knife, the cops came and arrested the guy for burglary, but then I still proceeded to throw out all my kitchenware.

      • jodiwankanobi says:

        Seems to me they took it seriously. They think he’s guilty but couldn’t decide on what count. They made sure he could be retried on that count even though the other verdicts meant he would be locked up for a long time. They didn’t say not guilty and they could have.

        Sounds like the defense did a better job this time too. Wish I could have watched it.

      • Malisha says:

        You also better throw out your dumpsters, you thug!

  32. Trisha0620 says:

    Jordan’s mother all I can say is wow,

  33. Trisha0620 says:

    Yes !! they are going back after him..

  34. Angela Corey now. Sounds like she plans to retry Count One.

  35. ZCBest says:

    I can not stop crying while watching the press conference of Jordan’s family. Jordan, you are not forgotten. You did not die in vain. You taught me a valuable lesson that I will share with my son.

    • breelee says:

      {{{hugs}}} to you, your son and Jordan’s loved ones and I agree with you. I almost feel guilty for being happy dung is being put away, because its not for Jordan’s murder. I cant imagine their pain. I hope they’re experiencing some comfort that the monster will never be able to do the same to another wonderful young man. I keep telling myself this could have turned out like it did for Trayvon’s family. I hope the Davis’s see that also.

      I hope everything is being put on youtube. I had to give the grand a break, so am unable to watch. ZC, I hate that you have to put fear of white men into your precious son mind. I’m so sorry it has to be that way.

      • ZCBest says:

        Breelee thank you so much for your kind words. I really truly appreciate you and everyone on this blog. It really is a safe haven. I have never meant any of you, but I feel connected you all and am so grateful. I know that I am not alone. My white brothers and sisters stand with me. The way that it should be. Thank you all!

  36. sparger says:

    Went out to dinner and just heard the semi good news. At least when the retry him he will have got a big dose of real jail and some real thugs.

  37. lurker says:

    Been thinking all afternoon. The silver lining here is that apparently they hung on first degree (presumably never moved on to consideration of second), which says to me that there were some stubborn souls on that jury holding on to what’s right. Better hung than not guilty. We also know that he is now headed for considerable time behind bars.

    And there will be a presentencing investigation–which I would imagine can include some of the ish in this man’s background that couldn’t be brought in during the trial.

    • bettykath says:

      No. They hung on the entire count which included M1, M2, etc. More likely there was at least one who insisted it was self-defense, thereby insisting it was not guilty.

      • groans says:

        What I don’t get, then, is how could he be guilty of the ATTEMPTED murders? Am I the only one that can’t quite wrap my mind around that?

        • Dave. says:

          He attempted to murder Jordan Davis’s three friends as they drove away. There was no way that that was in self defense. The only one whom Dunn accused of actually threatening him was Jordan, whom he killed.

  38. Trained Observer says:

    I prefer the “He had it comin’ ” from Chicago. Am so relieved. Still haven’t gotten over that sick feeling last July 13 when Fogen went free.

    This is a win Corey’s office. 20 year minimum on the attempted counts, and 15 year minimum on that missile. Will Healey do consecutive or concurrent? Either way, Dunn is off the streets and out of parking lots for a long time.

    And there’s still opportunity to go after him for murder.

    Guess Dunn will need to revise his five-year-plan, the one where he anticipated suing the state after acquital and getting a fat settlement.

  39. J4TMinATL says:

    Bettykath asked question. Jurors did convict on lesser of attempted murder charges.

    bettykath on February 15, 2014 at 7:04 pm
    I noticed that he is guilty of 2nd degree attempted murder. Was 1st degree attempted murder a possibility?

    I must say this judge is more competent and more personal than any I have ever seen. He has definitely impressed me.

    J4TMinATL on February 15, 2014 at 7:23 pm
    Yes he was charged with 1st degree attempted murder. They found him guilty on his lesser, 2nd degree attempted murder @bk.

    • J4TMinATL says:

      Up to 75 comes from

      3 charges @ 20 yrs each run consecutively
      1 charge up to 15 yrs

      • The 15 on the discharging a firearm is a minimum mandatory because the actual 20-year minimum mandatory exceeds the statutory max, which is 15 years.

        Each of the minimum mandatory sentences must run consecutive:

        (20) + (20) + (20) + (20 -5) = 75.

        Since he is 47-years-old, . . .

        • roderick2012 says:

          Since he is 47-years-old,

          Dunn looks as if he’s in his early 60’s.

          • Sophia33 says:

            He’s only a few years older than me. He does not look like someone from my generation.

          • roderick2012 says:


            I will be 42 in May and yes Dunn looks damn old.

            I can’t believe one of his grandmothers is still alive.

            Maybe that will mean that he will rot in prison until he’s in his late 80’s, but l doubt it with all of the drug and booze that he’s consumed over the years.

        • J4TMinATL says:

          Yup! 🙂

  40. Malisha says:

    Wow the Outhousers must be riled up. To them, this means that poor white guys are never allowed to defend themselves! Poor poor guys; they have to learn to live in constant fear! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAAA!!! Constant fear for cowards like FoDung! 😆 😆 😆 ❗

  41. Valerie says:

    Awesome updates!! Here at LAX…I am so happy.

  42. crazy1946 says:

    While we did not see a conviction yet on the murder charge, the convictions that were found will take this killer off the street! I predict that in the new trial there will be a conviction for murder 2!!

    • groans says:

      I’m thinking that, if I’m a prosecutor and this guy is put away essentially for the rest of his life, why would I invest my resources in another trial on this guy? I mean, I probably have a huge stack of cases involving folks who are still walking the streets that need my attention more at this point.

      You know what I mean?

  43. Malisha says:

    I need to find out what prison our hero (who wrote down the license plate #) is in and send him a contribution to his commissary account.

  44. Again: 75-years of minimum mandatories.

    He’ll never get out of prison.

  45. Malisha says:

    NEWSFLASH: There’s lots of thug music in prison in Florida!

    • bettykath says:

      Dunn is big, he towered over his lawyer. And he’s a bully. He’ll fit right in. He can start conning the cons.

      • Sophia33 says:

        I wonder how long he will last. He will probably join the Aryan brotherhood for protection. He will fit right in.

  46. anita says:

    Well, so glad he’ll go to prison, but the family will have to go thru another trial. Do you guys think they’ll retry him? I want to know what the holdout count was. I bet it was the man who answered very loud & strong when polled. I hope the jurors talk soon. Oh, & yes, Sophia, dunn is a socio or psychopath for sure. FL is a fucked up place. I’m so glad we left there 22 yrs. ago.

  47. Marsha says:

    CNN analysts are assuming that the jury hung up between some level of guilt and not guilty in the first charge. Can’t it have been between murder one and two or murder two and manslaughter?

    • Dave. says:

      If that’s all it was they should have been able to reach an agreement on one charge or another.

      • I agree with Dave.says. It appears that someone (perhaps most) on that jury pretended to believe that Michael Dunn killed Jordan Davis in self-defense. He did not and from watching much of the trial, the prosecution proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

  48. breelee says:

    Woot, they just said maybe 75 years!

  49. Brandy says:

    Thank you God! Thank you Jurors!!!! OMG. I cried and got so choked up! Finally Justice in Florida

  50. A life sentence is possible (75-years of minimum mandatories).

  51. Sentencing scheduled for the week of March 24th.

    Specific findings of discharging a firearm accompanied counts 2-4.

  52. Trisha0620 says:

    I almost started crying. but they got him

  53. shyloh says:

    Where’s Rhonda?

  54. colin black says:

    WAKEING Nightmare continues commence the defecation of bricks.

  55. Trained Observer says:

    Judge Healey: “Thank you … have a great evening.”

    Yes, Michael Dunn, you have a great evening.

  56. Boyd says:

    wait hold on, the kid is dead so how is it only “attempted” murder?

    They better try him again

    • Dave. says:

      Attempted murder of the other 3 kids. No question of self defense there.

    • Well, no. The ‘attempteds’- there were three. All guilty for attempted second degree murder, firearm enhanced.

      They mistried on Jordan Davis. So, they may try him again and I think they most likely will, unless he pleads out.

      In terms of keeping Michael Dunn in prison though, they don’t really need another conviction, although I believe Jordan’s family wants him to answer to the charge and see resolution. Bottom line is, he is going away for a very very long time, what amounts to life.

  57. Trisha0620 says:

    I wondered where you guys went too

  58. bettykath says:

    What are the penalties for attempted murder?

  59. shyloh says:

    WOW I didn’t think I’d cry but I am. WOWWOWWOW!!!!! Thank you jurors.

    Dunn doesn’t look too happy does he?

  60. Sophia33 says:

    This is ridiculous! I’m glad that he is at least going to jail. But still this jury sent a message that a black life is not worth the same as a white life.

  61. Brandy says:

    I am confused, was he found guilty on Murder 2?

  62. neveragain says:

    Even if he is found guilty on the other counts….he wasn’t found guilty of manslaughter the lesser charge and this sends a strong message….the juror or jurors who willfully dismiss all the evidence which shows that Dunn is guilty, is sending a message to their buddies and to black america

  63. J4TMinATL says:

    Thank you Florida. 60 years.

  64. Rachel ‏@CraneStation 28s
    Verdicts: Count 1: mistrial
    Count 2,3,4: Guilty, 2nd degree attempted, firearm enhanced
    Count 5 guilty, (missiles)

  65. Malisha says:

    Woah, what a relief!

    Let them interview Fogen on Monday. Let him explain how Corey did wrong because those four thugs “circled his car” and said, “What’s your fuckin’ problem homie?”


  66. shyloh says:

    My faith has been restored!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOOHOO

  67. 1. Mistrial
    2: Guilty Attempt Murder 2
    3. Guilty Attempt Murder 2
    4 Guilty Attempt Murder 2
    5: Guilty: Firing a missile

  68. colin black says:

    never been so happy to be WRONG

  69. Boyd says:

    I feel like crying, lock him up!

  70. breelee says:

    Praise God, thank you jurors. Doesn’t this mean 60 years! yeh!

  71. J4TMinATL says:


    1: hung
    2-4: G
    5: G

    Thank GOD

  72. breelee says:

    Verdict in: GUILTY on 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • breelee says:

      Sorry for writing guilty on 2, I meant count 2 and was so freaking excited he got that. Oh my God I’m thrilled EXCEPT for Jordan’s parents, bless those poor souls.

  73. Dave. says:

    Still deadlocked on one count

  74. Sophia33 says:

    Deadlocked still. At least we know they may be trying him on another count.

  75. J4TMinATL says:

    Remain deadlocked on one count. Sounded as if a female is foreman.

  76. Court is in session. Verdicts to be read. Mistrial on Count 1.

  77. Dave. says:

    The jury is returning with a verdict

  78. colin black says:

    whas uppppppppppppppppppp???

  79. J4TMinATL says:

    Here we go!

  80. In the answer he gave them last night, he mistakenly sent them a written answer that said “case.” He has now corrected it, to read “count.”

  81. OM, Crump, and Don Lemon debating the case on CNN.

  82. neveragain says:

    They refyse to convict him……they simply refuse besides all the evidence…..

  83. ronald says:

    Still watching!!!

  84. Geeze. These reporters talk about 30 hours of deliberations as a long time.

    I’ve tried complicated cases that lasted 2 to 9 months with jury deliberations lasting weeks.

  85. neveragain says:

    Hey I believe hung on count 1 means they do NOT ALL AGREE THAT HIS IS GUILTY ON ANY OF THE LESSE CHARGES , including manslaughte…..it’s not about the evidence people……..the evidence plainly shows he is guilty

  86. Piers Morgan ‏@piersmorgan 7m
    Let me try and help, Florida juries: shooting unarmed black teenagers dead is not ‘self-defense’, it’s murder. #dunn #zimmerman

  87. Boyd says:

    does not look like we’re getting a murder 1 , so the jurors wanted to make sure this guy will be going to jail on the other counts. where his butt belongs. Smart jurors not taking any chances with the wording..

  88. Well, if they stay hung on Murder One, his ass stays in jail.

  89. Judy A Vallejos says:

    oh my goodness…I just saw on TV that Zimmerman is going to be interviewed on TV Monday morning…

  90. Back in the courtroom? News has cut away. Clock is back.

  91. The jury had a question regarding whether verdicts reached on other counts would still stand, if the jury cannot reach a verdict on count 1.

    The answer is “yes.”

    Now, they are back to deliberating on count 1.

  92. colin black says:

    I was wrong this jury is not milking it.
    They have now churned butter an starting on cheese now.

    Nah thease are the people that make the system a mockery perverse VERDICTS
    Don’t prove the system works it proves the jury systems open to abuse tainted by predudice an often Is.

  93. I hope to god those other counts include guilty.

  94. Only the single count is mistried. The other counts stand.

  95. colin black says:

    last gasp trying to pressure the hold out ..outs.

    Doo as we say or you’ve screwed the entire case up an wasted all the time an money..

  96. ChrisNY~Laurie says:

    They can’t agree and are worried that the whole trial will be a mistrial. As soon as they find out that it’s only a mistrial on the count they can’t agree on, they will give their verdict very soon.

  97. Nice to know that judge healey saying only the COUNT would be mistried, not the other charges.

  98. Okay, they are in the courtroom. If they cannot agree is case mistrial or just one count?
    A: One count. NOT the whole case.

  99. J4TMinATL says:

    What do y’all think the question implies?

  100. News4Jax has livestream going. Another question.

  101. J4TMinATL says:

    Apparently jury has another question

  102. Boyd says:

    Heightened security , he’s walking.

  103. Michael Skolnik ‏@MichaelSkolnik 2m
    31 hours of deliberations and still no verdict. #DunnTrial

  104. Boyd says:

    This FCN lawyer is for Dunn.

  105. Wow. I thought that flag was photoshopped onto the building, but it’s real!

  106. bettykath says:

    iirc, the big speakers in the cars appeared in the 60s. Don’t remember anyone getting killed for having them booming their cars though. Cars actually “jumping” from the vibrations.

    • Malisha says:

      I know an Orthodox Rabbi who was walking home from a synagogue on Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the year for the Orthodox. A huge SUV full of teen-agers saw him and rolled down their windows so their sub-woofer was shaking up the whole neighborhood. They yelled out the window, “Hey Rabbi, you like this music?” He answered, “I LOVE IT!” And he began to dance with his hands in the air and shouted, “Turn it up for me please!” and danced and danced so they sped away.

    • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

      I used to ride in my boyfrieds car in the early 90’s that had those sub woofers. It was loud and I’m surprised I don’t have any hearing loss from it. Now that I am older, I do find it annoying when on occasion I hear a car outside and my house windows rattle, but if I were in a parking lot at a convenience store, I wouldn’t say a word to them because I would know that since I am at a convenience store neither one if us will be there for long giving its a convenience store! Not to mention, if you’re annoyed or bothered by someone next to you, for whatever reason, the normal thing to do is move. If he didn’t like the loud music he should have joined the live of his life inside the store.

      • Trained Observer says:

        A voice of reason. Who spends more than five minutes in a convenience store parking lot? How long does it take to choose and buy gas station wine?

    • Boyd says:

      Rap is everywhere. it’s all over the world. I’ve listened to Libyan , Eygptian and Tuareg rap, This is a flat out excuse

      I also worked in the military on aircraft and while going to school for engineering I worked around Cessna’s and other small aircraft.
      It’s much louder than music from a stereo. So I knew Dunn was Full of shit about his ears hurting.

      • Drew says:

        Zimmerman was threatened by concrete, Dunn by MUSIC.

        Do these pussies have no shame?

        The right wing NRA crowd is full of the biggest chicken shit pieces of scum possible.

  107. Oh my God. Oops, my bad! I was on Fred’s screen and I ‘liked’ this post. I thought it was me, and since I did not really understand the ‘Allen Charge,’ well, I ‘liked’ this post.

    My fault. Not his. We don’t know how to retract the ‘like!’

    *adjusts dunce cap*

  108. bettykath says:

    Considering the level of anxiety here, I can’t begin to imagine the anxiety in Jordan’s family. Whatever anxiety that Dunn is feeling is ok with me.

  109. Boyd says:

    Who’s this FCN lawyer, he’s insane he thinks Dunn was in the right
    until he fired off more shots. .

  110. breelee says:

    Call me crazy, but could this be the scenario: Guilty on the 3 boys, and all but one person says guilty on M2, but one is holding out for M1? Could we be upset for no reason?

    P.S. I love my sweet grand daughter. She just asked me why people think bad of black people. She said don’t they know we’re all the same, just the color is different? She’s so puzzled by this damn trial, and getting a good lesson on a-holes. I told her she and her friends are our only hope for the future.

  111. Nothing makes sense anymore

  112. breelee says:

    If any juror thinks the kids had a gun and dumped it, that’s asinine. IF they had one, why wouldn’t they use it against a crazed shooter/killer??? I want to hear from the ng voters how this wasn’t murder!! Gawd this is maddening. Loving the guy on CNN, he’s got dungs number.

    • breelee says:

      Don Lemon’s his name. Smart, sane guy.

      • … and Don Lemon is not known for liberal views.

      • MDH says:

        There is a silver lining. White racists like to wax poetic about the low intellect of black males. Objectively speaking, any person who buys into Dunn’s story is dumber than dirt.

        So roll on Don.

        • Drew says:

          The racist whiteys want it both ways:

          In their vile imaginations, black teenagers would pull a gun on a fat fuck yelling about their loud music.

          But in that same sick, twisted imagination, they believe those same FIVE thugs would not go down shooting, but driving away and throwing the gun out the window, despite zero crime being committed?

          That’d be like if someone threatened to break into my home, I held them off by wielding a knife, the cops came and arrested the guy for burglary, but then I still proceeded to throw out all my kitchenware.

    • anita says:

      yes, breelee, Don Lemon on CNN is pissed of big time. I think they have found him guilty of at least 1 attempted M. There are at least 2 or 3 total racists on this jury, just like with poor Trayvon. So very wrong, just sickening.

      • Trained Observer says:

        anita, there’s likely a closet racist or two (maybe more) on this jury. But the irony is it could be just one uber-stickler who wants to define every niggling word — and no folks the word niggling is not racist, check it out — who is drawing this out. Maybe even the racists have shaken their head negatively at Dunn, knowing he’s a lost cause.

        • Malisha says:

          Problem is, they no longer need to be in the closet. Nowadays racists can “come out.” It’s socially acceptable to be racist. You just say “thug” instead of “N—-r.”

          • Trained Observer says:

            Malisha, exactly. (I’m old enough to remember when thug meant thug, of any color albeit typically white, and it sure wasn’t a race descriptor.

  113. Wow, some lawyer on First Coast seems to be saying the ‘hey man, I thought I saw a gun’

    is valid in Florida.

    He glossed over that itsy bitsy concept of reasonableness. He said the word, but glossed over it, and that is really really misleading. I think.

  114. J4TMinATL says:

    Oh Lord….having a heart attack…frustrated…angry…

  115. I keep keep saying to myself, we don’t know. We just don’t know those other 4 verdicts are.


  116. I don’t believe they are actually in agreement on the other 4. I think the holdouts agreed to call him innocent on the 4 if they could get a guilty verdict on the first charge. Does anyone else believe that the jury found him guilty on the other counts? I don’t think so.

    • Brandy says:

      I think there are some guilty verdicts on the other charges. For those who think he is guilty of murder are not going to agree on not guilty for other charges IMO. This is so MIND BOGGLING

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I don’t see why in the world the would find Dunn not guilty on the other counts. I think even the racists would follow the letter of the law on those – they reviewed the 3 late shots – even Dunn says he didn’t know why he did it.

      But they know damn well they can hang the whole thing with the self-defense on the 1st charge.

      • Trained Observer says:

        No the whole thing doesn’t get hung if they reach verdicts on the other charges, and according to the judge, they have. .

  117. Brandy says:

    It drives me nuts that the talking heads are saying this should of been charged as 2nd degree! Well, they can pick 2 degree or Manslaughter for that matter if they don’t agree with 1st degree! This is so maddening! SMH There are 1 or 2 egos in there that are making this more difficult than it has to be! So frustrating

    • There’s also a manslaughter option on the table. Somebody on the jury is pretending to believe that he killed that child in self-defense.

    • Dave. says:

      I think Corey chose to prosecute for Murder1 so she could get a 12 person jury. One element of M1 is premeditation and many people would think that Dunn didn’t have time for that. The crime has all the elements of Murder2 though.

      • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

        Dave, I just posted on last thread that premeditation comes in when he decided to reach over and open his glove box, grab his gun, cock it, aim and shoot. It doesn’t have to be hours, days or weeks of planning. I could see the jury questioning this if he had easy access to the gun and it already had a bullet in the chamber. It’s so clear to see this. I can’t believe anyone would believe his crazy story of being afraid for his life. This is just nuts.

        • Dave. says:

          From a legal standpoint I agree with you regarding Premeditation. From a practical standpoint, I don’t think most jurors would buy the idea that someone could premeditate murder in a few seconds. If I was on this jury I would vote for M1 but if the majority wanted M2 I wouldn’t have any problem changing my vote.

          • roderick2012 says:

            I don’t think most jurors would buy the idea that someone could premeditate murder in a few seconds


            1) Dunn had a chance to de- escalate the situation by driving away and contacting the police

            2) If anyone in the SUV had had a gun Dunn was leaving himself vulnerable by sitting in the car while loading the gun

            3) No one in the SUV fired back with the mythical gun

    • MDH says:

      Those talking heads fail to realize that accepting a self-defense claim takes out M1, M2 and MS.

      If they had any real stones, they would be talking about how anyone in the USA could believe Dunn.

      Oh, but that would mean a real discussion of racism that would indict whites.

      So they won’t do that.

    • a2nite says:

      Doesn’t matter. He’s a white man in the Jim Crow south. In that circumstance, the n-word had an Uzi pointed at him. It’s ok to kill a n-word because you’re afraid.
      Evil white American gun culture wins again.

      Don’t go to FL if you’re black. It’s ok to murder us.

  118. commenting says:

    so they dont have an option of convicting on second degree murder????????…the evidence/ testimonies says he’s guiloty and everyone knows it including those who found him not guilty just like in the zimmerman trial

    • Brandy says:

      I agree, this is a no brainer, unless your racist and have no regard for the life of young black men!

    • Trained Observer says:

      As threads have made clear, juryors DO have the option of convicting on M1, M2 or manslaughter. They are said to be hung on M1.

    • MDH says:

      If one or more jurors accepts Dunn’s claim of self-defense, then non of the lesser charges are applicable in that it, in their minds, was a justifiable homicide.

      if they were holding out because they felt the act was not pre-meditated, then depraved mind (M2) or intentionally committing an act that caused the death (MS) could be on the table.

      IOW, some on that jury feel that Dunn had a valid reason to fear for his life.

      What a bunch of horseshit and I hope that they are a few of the 12.

      What could be in play is the later shots at a retreating SUV. Maybe the racists or idiots who feel Dunn was justified in killing Jordan conceded that.

      Hopefully I am correct to that Dunn goes to prison and pressure gets put on the media to give this cretin the exposure he deserves.

      And then he can get tired again on the M1 charge.

  119. commenting says:

    i hope the black women were sophisticated even though they could probably figure out that the jury who voted not guilty were not looking at the evidence…..what can you do????? life is not fair….oh lord

    • cmment says:

      do they have an option on convicting on second degree murder?????

      • Brandy says:

        Yes, and they have an option to agree on Manslaughter too!

      • Yes. This would be one of the ‘lesser included’ verdicts.

        • Trained Observer says:

          After discussion mandated by the Allen charge, there’s still a s-l-i-m chance of roping in some converts to M1.

          That in turn makes it easier to argue for M2 with any “not-guilty of murder” die-hards.

          And a good safety escape is manslaugher, which the “let’s not call him a murderer” crowd can go for, and those who understand a manslaughter conviction beats hanging the jury altogether can live with as well.

          Hope Dunn is beginning to sweat.

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