Verdict Watch Michael Dunn Trial Day 4

Michael Dunn Trial – Jury Questions #5 and #6

After deliberating for a full day yesterday in the Michael Dunn murder trial, the jury sent two hand-written questions to the court:

Can we take a 30-minute break?

Is it possible to not reach a verdict one one count and reach a verdict on the other counts?

Judge Healey said “yes” to both, the jury took a break that extended into the dinner hour, and then turned in for the night.

Court resumes at 9 AM.

Here is the link to First Coast News Live Stream coverage.

Please join us this morning for verdict watch!


Web extra: Dunn attorney full media briefing

Jail calls of Michael Dunn’s conversations released
Channel 4 obtains phone calls from Michael Dunn’s 1st month in Duval Co. jail

574 Responses to Verdict Watch Michael Dunn Trial Day 4

  1. J4TMinATL says:

    Verdict being read

  2. Trisha0620 says:

    is this it?

  3. Trisha0620 says:

    another question

  4. Trisha0620 says:

    wow what that guy on CNN just said was spot on

  5. Lynn says:

    Case, count. Florida jury instructions. SMH

  6. colin black says:

    pundits think its guilty on the attempts an undecided on the MAJOR MURDER CHARGE!

    Wrong I m o its vice verca not guilty on everything murder an attemps is what they have.

    An there is a couple of brave souls whom wont be intimidated.

    Hope Im wrong but logic dictates if they cant see an obvious MURDER

    Then they wont aknowlage posssable attepts like what if a trajectoiry was an inch to the left .

    Would have been a head shot for the driver blah blah It wasn’t .
    So no biggie
    Couldve hit a passwr by but didn’t so no foul no penalty.

    No this jury wants him to walk

    An lucky theres at least one decent person in that room of vipers.

  7. J4TMinATL says:

    Fred put new post up : )

  8. colin black says:

    Ive got talking heads pontificating on my feed.

  9. ChrisNY~Laurie says:

    For 1st degree murder, premeditation has to be a factor. From the moment Dunn reached for his gun in the glove box is when premeditation began. This means he planned on shooting Jordan , then acted on those plans by getting the gun out, cocking it, aiming it and shooting it. Premeditation does not mean hours, days or weeks of planning. So if the jury found him guilty of attempted murder on the other three, than they must find him guilty of m1 for crying out loud!

  10. bettykath says:

    Crazy announcer thinks defense attorney should have played the same song as loud as Dunn heard it so the jurors would know what Dunn was dealing with. Like it’s a capital offense offense to play loud music!!

    • Malisha says:

      Prosecution should have played that song as loud as FoDung says it was playing, and insisted that he answer questions WHILE IT WAS PLAYING to show that he couldn’t have heard these alleged threats on his life at the time.

      I’d keep questioning and say, “Didn’t you hear me Mr. FoDung?”

      THen I’d say, “does your head itch?” “have a sandwich?” “your bed or mine, which?” and see how he repsonds.

      Reminds me of a trial in Iowa in 1994 or thereabouts. Mom was pro se questioning an alleged pedophile on the stand in a custody trial. She had asked him to submit voluntarily to a plethysmograph test because her (their) daughter had a ruptured hymen at the age of 3. He refused. So she and I had sat down for hours designing questions and she was in court asking these questions from a big yellow pad where she had written them. She asked if he would take a plethysmograph and all four of the father’s lawyers (his lawyer, the guardian ad litem, the guardian ad litem’s lawyer, and the lawyer for the social services team) jumped up and objected. About ten minutes later she got ready to ask the question:

      Did there come a time when there was a plethora of complaints from [daughter’s name] about pain in her genital area?

      She got the syllable “pleth” out and up jumped the four jumping-jack lawyers to object. She said,

      “Your Honor, may I respond?”
      He let her.

      She said, “my question is: [and repeated it].”

      Judge said: “What kind of a test is a plethora?”

  11. breelee says:

    Ok, if I took from MOM what I think I did, if they voted guilty on the 3 boys, that stands. Think about it, no one is going to vote dung is guilty for murder and then say ng on the 3 boys. This could end all right then. I hate no decision for Jordan, but as long as he’s locked about for 60, I’m happy.

    BUT, I cant imagine the racists voting guilty on anything. : (

    • concernedczen says:

      I agree breelee, unless there are only 1 or 2 racists on the jury and the group wore that person down to the point they couldn’t even make a coherent argument to acquit on Dunn’s jumping out of his car and shooting after the truck was leaving

  12. Sadly true – if little ole Charlie got whacked, we’d see a conviction.

  13. ChrisNY~Laurie says:

    Could it be that they all agree guilty on charges 2-5 yet some say 1st degree murder and some say no it was manslaughter not 1st degree and that could be hang up? I’m hoping that anyone. Dang… I hate to say this MOM just said exactly what I was thinking.

    • Malisha says:

      Go wash your mind out with soap.
      Just kidding. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, so we’ll say that M’OM happened to say something right when he agreed with you. 😀

    • I’m guessing there were a variety of opinions on the death of JDm but don’t forget that some of those folks likely wanted a not guilty for self defense on the count – some bought into the self-defense plea. It’s the F-state, land of the roaming Z.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Chris, I think that’s highly likely. Optimistically, I’m thinking it’s all over but coming to unanimous consensus on M1, M2, or manslaughter. I’d hope for M1 but could live with manslaughter. Eventhat can get him 35 years or so.

      Then the issue becomes whether any guilty verdicts on other counts are levied consecutively or concurrently at sentencing.

      The goal is to get him sent away for a good, long time for the murder of Jordan Davis. Let’s take it anyway we can get it, even if it means losing on the M1.

    • bettykath says:

      I’d expect the jury to have reached some agreement if they agreed that it wasn’t self-defense, but self-defense was a factor in one of the questions that came back. I think the lack of agreement was between guilty on one charge or another (M1, M2, VMS, IMS) and not guilty due to self-defense.

    • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

      Well, if what the dilemma of the jury is what I’m hoping it is, maybe they will all meet in the middle and agree on 2nd degree. Fingers crossed!!

  14. Liza says:

    I fully believe that if the jury hangs on count 1 that Dunn will be re-tried. They might reduce the charge, but they will try again. Duval County is almost 40 percent black. That has to mean something even if it’s Florida.

  15. ay2z says:

    Does not sound as if this decision will be much longer, once everyone has spoken, the discussion will either move forward or stall and they have already been at the stall point for some time, it seems.

  16. breelee says:

    This may be a stupid question: Does the juries decision stand on the charges they agree on, even though they cant agree on 1? Say they found him guilty on the 3 boys, can he still be sent away and then have another trial for Jordan?

    • fauxmccoy says:

      yes, breelee. if jury finds him guilty on 4 of the counts, then he is guilty, same if not guilty. on the 1 count where the jury is hung, a mistrial for that 1 count would be declared and the prosecution can and should re-try the case.

      • breelee says:

        Thank you Faux. I cant see the smart jurors letting him off on the 3 boys. Any teen can be in a car of “thugs”, even a racists “white” kid, so maybe even the asses voted right. Praying I’m right.

  17. Trained Observer says:

    Please … please … please. Don’t make any sweeping assumptions at this point. Jury has reach verdicts on four counts, but is presently hung on M1. That means they can now take a look at M2 or manslaughter.

    • ay2z says:

      but if they find a weak point and convince the holdout(s) who split an M1 decision, couldn’t it go back to M1?

      An early vote can make it hard later on, the judge suggests, so is it about ego from not wanting to change a position?

    • bettykath says:

      I don’t think so. On the first count, M1 with lesser includeds, they couldn’t reach agreement. They have already considered M2 and manslaughter and whatever else is possible for the killing of Jordan.

  18. ay2z says:

    What does the M1 charge turn on here, the shotgun suggestion?

  19. ay2z says:

    Is there a list of the charges in a doc somewhere? The jury instructions or charging doc?

  20. breelee says:

    Each juror who voted to set this killer free, should have to explain why they feel its A-OK to murder a black child. Damn I’m so mad. I hate fla.

  21. ay2z says:

    What does it take in Florida if you are a dunney, to get convicted?

  22. J4TMinATL says:

    Murderer got off. I doubt State will retry.

    Count 1: Mistrial
    Count 2-5: Not Guilty

    Fuck Florida

    • Malisha says:

      Hold on: A hung jury is not the same as a mistrial.

      A hung jury is much different, isn’t it?

      They definitely should RE-TRY the Murder count on Davis if there is a hung jury.

    • Malisha says:

      Florida, Jeb Bush’s fiefdom, gave us George W. Bush who gave us the war in Iraq and the great economic collapse. Florida can now give us the rest of the fall-of-Rome scenario. There is no doubt about the reason for this. The “war on drugs” and the “response to 9/11” are as much dog-whistles as the word “thug.” Say these magic words and you can kill whomever you choose to kill and terrorize whomever you wish to dominate. Just use these magic words.

    • concernedczen says:

      jesus, will you stop posting stuff like the verdict has been announced

      why not write…”this is what I think will happen”

      • J4TMinATL says:

        Shut up

        • concernedczen says:

          good response. You are over excitable and it’s unnecessary since we all care about the outcome. Be responsible in your postings instead posting hysterically that you would acquit (like you did the other day) and then making posts like you are announcing the verdict when the verdict has not even been announced yet.

          • J4TMinATL says:

            Once again SU. You know damn well it hasn’t been announced therefore it would be my opinion.


          • shyloh says:

            I also agree. It starts to get confusing after awhile. I just logged in again and I am confused. But then again it doesn’t take much to confuse me 🙂

      • Malisha says:

        OK, Help me out: Has or has not the verdict come in? I can’t get any kind of live streaming because my computer crashes when sound is played; something wrong with a “plug-in.”

        Somebody please update me, OK?

        • J4TMinATL says:

          No its already been said they are back deliberating re: Allen charge. Prof is writing about it now.

        • Trained Observer says:

          Malisha — Judge has said jury has said a verdict has been reached on 4 counts but that they are hung on the M1.

          No verdictss have been announced. No verdicts have been submitted to judge. No need for people here to go prematurely ape-shit over what isn’t yet known or carved in stone. .

        • concernedczen says:

          No Malisha,

          No verdict has been announced and many believe it will be 4 counts guilty and hung on the murder.

          It’s just one poster continuing to make hysterical posts and rile people up.

          • J4TMinATL says:

            I’m riling people up. I answered her question and TO did too but you had to get your dig in.

            STFU. I’m entitled to my opinion and my hysteria.

          • Lynn says:

            J4TMinATL says:
            February 15, 2014 at 5:17 pm
            I’m riling people up. I answered her question and TO did too but you had to get your dig in.

            STFU. I’m entitled to my opinion and my hysteria.

            Entitled to your opinion…NOT entitled to talk to others like that as a guest of the Professor on HIS blog.

          • J4TMinATL says:


            I wasn’t riling people up on purpose. If one follows my comments after it was announced people would see the flow of my thoughts. CC picked one post to pick out.

            Let it go please.

        • shyloh says:

          I am having the same problem. With a script or shock wave. it’s driving me nuts.

      • J4TMinATL says:

        If I type it it’s implied it’s what I think. DUH.

  23. Boyd says:

    I assume this means 4 counts they agree Guilty on.

  24. sparger says:

    If i was voting for guilty on the intiial charge there is no way I would say not guilty on the attempted murder charges. Of course I’m not on a jury in Florida.

    • bettykath says:

      Right. Those who hung in there on Guilty for count 1 would not back down on the attempted murder counts. I think that when they discussed the other counts on their own, one at a time, they were able to convince the not-guilty folks that there was no justification for the use of force.

      I’m looking at hung jury on count 1, guilty on all other counts.

  25. Fred has returned from an errand and is writing a new post, about the Allen Charge.


    Michael Skolnik ‏@MichaelSkolnik 2m
    Before judge can declare mistrial on murder count of Jordan, jurors must tell each other weakest part of their own vote. #DunnTrial

  26. J4TMinATL says:

    He’s walking. NG on all charges and mistrial on count 1.

  27. I don’t have any hope that anything will change with further deliberation, but a new trial and new jury might just make for a conviction.

  28. bettykath says:

    They spent a lot of time on the first count. Maybe after reaching agreement on the other counts there might be some changed minds.

  29. bettykath says:

    Professor, how about some words on the Allen instructions?

  30. ay2z says:

    Someone holding out on 1st degree charge and lessers?

    • Trained Observer says:

      Lessers have been resolved with verdicts. That (to me) means guilty, since it doesn’t make sense that anyone on the pro side of M1 would have caved on all of the lessers.

      Even if the “attempted M” brought a mixed bag result or rejected altogether, how could anyone say “Yeah, he’s guilty of M1, but I’m okay with letting him go on the missile charge.”

      Just my thinking.

      • Boyd says:

        I agree, they have him guilty on 4. I’m okay with that if this fool ever gets out he’s over 80. I’m assuming 4 counts of guilty means he’s going to jail.

      • ay2z says:

        Thanks, TO

        The missile charge is the easy one. So they would likely have agreed on the three attempted ‘second degree’, obviously couldn’t be 1st if 1st is the charge they are missing.

    • Boyd says:

      I thought they were holding out on 1 charge

  31. Rachel ‏@CraneStation now
    Verdict reached on 4 of 5, hung on count One. Allen charge being read: Court will request that they go back and try again.

  32. sparger says:

    Some idiot thinks shooting at unarmed teens is okie dokie.

  33. Hung jury- judge will give Allen instruction.

  34. Trained Observer says:

    meaning guilty (hopefully) on the others?

    • J4TMinATL says:

      I’m not convinced.

      Bastard got his self defense.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        i’m not convinced of that — yes, one or more jurors may believe that, but for those who do consider count 1 to be guilty will not go for not guilty on the remaining 4 counts and they would have to agree. i don’t see that happening, especially with judge’s answers to the last question.

        for those (and there must be some) who would vote guilty on count 1, how could they unanimously agree to ‘not guilty’ on attempted murder? i just don’t see it. do you think those black women would agree unanimously to that?

  35. fauxmccoy says:

    this is pretty much what i was expecting.

  36. J4TMinATL says:

    I fucking hate Florida.

  37. ay2z says:

    Judge wishes to ‘Give Charge’, additional information to provide the jury, then send them back with the documents distributed to the jury, then send them back to continue deliberation.

  38. bettykath says:

    deadlock on count 1
    verdict on 4 others

    allen instructions, whatever that is

  39. Note says we have reached a verdict on four of the five. Hung on count one. Allen charge.

  40. I’m having a heart attack! This better be good!

  41. Judge said he has a note from the jury – did not say “question.” Waiting for everyone to get back in the courtroom.

  42. bettykath says:

    note from the jury

  43. sighhhhh says:

    Did he say note from jury?

  44. There is a note, question.

  45. J4TMinATL says:

    Tune in NOW

  46. Court back in session.

  47. fauxmccoy says:


  48. ay2z says:

    Would have been useful to have had dunn show his true colours on the stand, but he was prepared with his switcheroo from ‘thug’ music to something else more neutral.

    But his letters show exactly what he things of ‘thugs’– it’s his equivalent to using N word and get away with it.

  49. sighhhhh says:

    Actual courtroom just flashed on the stream.

  50. Heard sound just now!

  51. Natalie Jackson ‏@NatJackEsq 7m
    I was afraid something like this would happen when the prosecutors decided to omit the racial issues and pretend they don’t exist.

    • Boyd says:

      makes sense, there’s no such thing as over charging now as we can see, throw that playbook out the window. Maybe there should have been 4 separate trials, one for each kid,

  52. J4TMinATL says:

    Damn Damn come on jurors!

  53. Girlp says:

    The ME did an excellent job explaining cause of death and how the bullets hit him the child had to be leaning to the left and was never outside the car this is not rocket science.

  54. ay2z says:

    Time for another tune, TSTAS :!

  55. Girlp says:

    I’m praying for the right decision whether it’s murder 1, murder 2 or manslaughter, he should not be allowed to get away with this. He murdered that child and in my opinion it was intentional. This would be the 3rd time Florida made a bad decision….I’m worried.

  56. Trained Observer says:

    In Broward County, Florida (that’s immediately north of Miami/Dade), Judge Susan Lebow has long known as “Let’em Go Lebow.”

    Earlier this very month, she and prosecutor Gregg Rossman tangled over a procedural matter (he wanted a one-day delay over an evidence issue) and she ended up tossing a first-degree murder charge because Rossman refused to proceed to trial.

    Even though defendant remains locked up, possibly for life for violating probation, justice for the murder victim was not served. The State Attorney’s office will appeal.

    In 1996, Lebow overturned a manslaughter conviction against the NFL’s Brian Blades one day after a jury returned a guilty verdict, saying the state’s evidence wasn’t strong enough. An appeals court ended up backing her decision. One of these days, maybe voters will let Ol’ Lebow Go.

    Hopefully Judge Healey is cut of different cloth.

    • concernedczen says:

      it sounds like Judge Lebow might be brave and going with her conscience. Innocent people do get wrongly convicted on weak evidence.

      However, clearly Zimmerman and Dunn are not innocent

  57. Louie says:

    So tired of waiting can not figure out what is going on!!

  58. colin black says:

    back to outside veiw of court house.

    • colin black says:

      ouie says:
      February 15, 2014 at 3:26 pm

      What do you mean it’s happening?????

      sorry because feed i was watching went from external of court.
      To internal veiw of the court room I assumed that the Jury was about to teturn,
      But now its gone back to external veiw

      Sorry Im bad

      I assumed an made an ass of u an ME!

      Still feel its close one way or another this debacle ends today.

      With a entire new debacle to ponder comeing down the pipes.

      I feel the State has to move foward straight away with a continuance of pro ceedings if theres a hung panel of jurours

      Say all agrre oin not guilty on the attemps an wreckless endagerment of dischargeing a fire arm in a public placce.

      Thats the 4 counts they agree on.

      The hold outs dont actually agree but went along to get along.
      However the majority want to also aqui him of murder one …two manslaughter the whole encholada.

      An thers a couple of reasonable non bigoted raceists that aint going to let it happen.

      So sometime today misstrial declared .

      An Corey an Co must not give him bail must move straight foward towards a retrail as happened when P Spectres first jury hung on a verdict of 11 guilty votes one not guilty votes.

      I think this Jury will be 8 for compleate aquittall let the S O B walk free.

      Two or Three wanting at least murder two or even man slaughter for Jordans Murder.

      Idealy they want murder one an to convict on all counts but realise there ensconced within a vipers nest of bigoted small minded little Americanas.

      They wont cave an let us DOWN

      An Neither must the State Department of Florida .

      They have all at there finger tips an more as do the defence .

      A new trial could commence within weeks if the will Is there.

  59. William K. Wolfrum ‏@Wolfrum 5m
    I’d like to be interviewed on CNN, but I don’t want to kill a Black kid.

  60. ay2z says:

    The photo changed, but they put on inside and outside photos reoutinely rotating them.

  61. ay2z says:

    Haven’t they been there plenty long enough for a self-defence deliberation, if that’s where they were going from the start?

    • bettykath says:

      It’s taking so long because they don’t agree. This is good news from the standpoint that it’s not likely to be not guilty on all counts. I expect the the white males can identify with Dunn on how vulnerable they feel as wimps against Black teens. Let’s hope it isn’t all of them. There are a few white males not so easily intimidated.

  62. Louie says:

    What do you mean it’s happening?????

  63. ay2z says:

    Does dunn’s calm movements after the fiirst volley of three shots, say something about his calm and focus of his attention on the back door, his tunnel vision, then his resetting of his shooter’s stance from outside the car, taking a trained LEO crouch and again two handing his aim for support and accuracy.

    First time this arrogant shooter ever used his gun inappropriately? Besides allegedly putting it to the head of his wife of the time, of course. Could a person as calm after this shooting as indicated by his actions, have shot someone before?

    Someone have materials science metalurgical specialists examing the inside of his gun barrel, was it modified or altered purposefully, ever after factory?

    • ay2z says:

      last sentence was not a question, but a request.

      • I think there may have been a gun expert in the thread earlier, hope this can be answered. I only know from someone who emailed me a few days ago, the Taurus he used is a “better than average gun” tooled in Brazil by the same makers of Beretta, and please note, I am only paraphrasing from memory. I may not be quoting exactly so don’t take this as gospel. The magazine holds 15; aftermarket magazines can hold more.

    • Trained Observer says:

      On.ce a person has gotten by with something, it’s sorely tempting to do it again. Why not? There were no consequences last time around. …. Just sayin’.

    • Dave. says:

      Dunn is said to have practiced regularly with his pistol–2 or 3 times a month over the cours of 18 years. All that shooting would result in significant wear which would result in different patterns left by the rifling inside the barrel on the fired bullets. An undamaged bullet freshly fired from that gun would look quite different from one fired hundreds of rounds previously. If the guns owner was worried about covering up ballistic evidence of a past crime he wouldn’t alter the barrel. He would either replace it or get rid of the gun.

  64. colin black says:

    Its happening just changed vt from outside to innside court room
    Useally means live feed will resume soonish.

  65. Trained Observer says:

    Beacon of hope: Somewhere within that 12 person jury is at least one person who will stand tall (unlike that dopey Maddie woman) and refuse to roll over. At worst, the jury will hang. But he’ll be convicted of something.

    There’s no denying that juries do look at the consequences of their decision even if they are hazy on what the sentence actually would be. As in, “this kid shot somebody dead, and it was premeditated, but an M1 conviction would mean LWOP.” Not talking about Dunn as the kid here, but I think that could come into play with the Dunn jury.

    Again, somebody on that jury is not going to let him walk.

  66. colin black says:

    3 15 OR THERE ABOUTS IN Florida I expect an end to this before they break for evening meal ect.

    Hung jury as thers no way anyself respecting human will cave to pressure an let dunn walk or skip or slide on this barbaric execution .
    An attempted murders on a lame self defence .

  67. Waiting for the End (Official HD)

  68. Kind of wondering how many of them are still alive in there. Good thing there are alternates on standby. Fred has heard of fights, and one person who locked herself in the bathroom, refusing to change her vote.

  69. Zerlina Maxwell ‏@ZerlinaMaxwell 26m
    Jury took 12 minutes to convict marissa Alexander who was defending herself and injured no one. #dunntrial

    • Liza says:

      Seems like it would take longer than that to fill out and collect the forms.

    • Malisha says:

      defending herself against a man who had beaten her before and who admitted that he beat “all [his] baby-mammas.” And who brought charges against her in anger and then wanted to withdraw them — hunh, kinda like Samantha Schiebe, wouldn’t you say? But some people have automatic immunity for acts of threat and violence, and others not.

      I say if you’re gonna kill the king, you gotto KILL the king.

  70. J4TMinATL says:

    Sentence for 5th charge? Anyone know?

    • Trained Observer says:

      LWOP??? Joking there. But I hope it’s stiff enough in case others fall through. Shooting a bunch bullets into an occupied vehicle in a public place ought to rate a few years.

    • Firing a missile? Up to 15 years, I put the statute pretty early in the thread, I think.

      If that was the only crime he was convicted of, he would likely get probation. Yup.

      Disclaimer: I could be wrong! Just reading statutes, as a layperson.

      • Judge Healey would have consider any not-guilty verdicts as final adjudications on those counts and should not consider Dunn’s conduct or intent in those counts in determining what sentence to impose.

        • J4TMinATL says:

          Interesting since every count has to be considered separately lol. Why bother adding it to the indictment?

        • Malisha says:

          In a bizarre case in Maryland, a judge sentenced a woman for attempted murder and conspiracy to murder, although the state accepted her plea to a handful of lesser included’s and dismissed those two charges. When his sentencing mentioned the more serious charges and he imposed 30 years, I pointed out to some lawyers that he sentenced her for the charges she did NOT plead to and they said that was all right. How in the world could it be all right? It still astonishes me. Now, I’m thinking, could FoDung be sentenced for a boatload of crimes he committed but got acquitted of? Damn! We all know better.

          The woman who was sentenced for crimes she was not formally convicted of was, after all, powerless in this society. not so a 50-year-old white racist male in the South.

          This country can lie about everything; three hundred years from now I hope people will be intelligent enough to call this for what it is. And to condemn this society in excellent retrospect if this murdering bully racist punk walks.

      • concernedczen says:

        didn’t marissa alexander get 20 years for the same charge as a minimum sentence?

  71. Malisha says:

    It occurs to me.

    No person should be permitted to claim self-defense if he or she does not report the crime within a reasonable time of its having been committed.

    The only rational thing. If someone tried to hurt or kill you, and you had to hurt or kill them to protect yourself, you should be responsible to report at least the crime against YOURSELF before you can claim that as a factor. PERIOD.

    MUCH MORE IMPORTANT than the stand-your-ground law.


  72. Natalie Jackson ‏@NatJackEsq 45m
    The fact that the judge is concerned about the voices of the jury carrying through the walls tells me that some jurors are arguing loudly.

    BTW saw an earlier tweet from Natalie- he son has been accepted into JAG training- that is, he is working toward being a lawyer in the military.

  73. fauxmccoy says:

    good morning from the left coast … only one more cup of tea to consume for full functionality.

    • Bring the whole pot. This waiting shit’s crazy.
      Great to see your fonts!

      • fauxmccoy says:

        i just cannot force my disabled body to keep to an east coast schedule for any length of time. i did sleep with the TV on (rare for me to even have it on) in case judge healey’s voice came through. sure enough, that is what i woke up hearing. wish it had been more productive news. after this amount of time, i am having a hard time envisioning an acquittal, i’ll say that. remaining cynically optimistic, as always … it’s a difficult balance to maintain 😉

  74. Off-topic celebrity gossip for anyone who follows the talent shows. Seeing in Google news that Simon Cowell is now a dad to new baby Eric.

  75. J4TMinATL says:

    Just a friendly reminder to always answer a jury summons! I know many in Atlanta that always have an excuse. Hell the city doesn’t do anything if you don’t answer.

    • Only one I ever got was in LA, in the OJ era. I mailed it back and said I was a single mom working, so no go, plus I could not be objective in a murder trial b/c had a murder in my family.
      Never heard back.

    • Lynn says:

      Just got one last week for March3rd. I’ll be there if needed. My daughter got one in the mail a couple weeks ago, but her group never had to go in. (You call the day before to see if your number comes up.)
      Too bad I’m in Clay County. One county over from Duval. I would have loved to see the inside of the new courthouse.

  76. ay2z says:

    If dunn’s lawyer is concerned about a guilty verdict on 1st degree at this point, wouldn’t he want to advise dunn to discuss plea?

  77. Papa
    ‏@LLMSPapa Protected Tweets
    Keep in mind peeps, at least one in that jury room, if not more, is standing their ground for justice. Pray for their strength.

    • ay2z says:

      Good thought, Papa.

      Thanks for sharing, Crane

    • Liza says:

      I figured that out yesterday, that it had to be fewer on the side of justice and more on the side acquittal. Very sad. But I knew from the start there were too many white folks on that jury and too many white men (5).

      My family has lived in Florida for probably close to 200 years and at least 100 years of that in Jacksonville. I had no faith in those white folks, none whatsoever.

      If Florida ever gets serious about enforcing the law when it’s a white on black crime, they sure as hell better improve how they select jurists. That is a huge failing here.

    • Prayers and prayers and prayers. I have confidence that the righteous will hold out, but the jury may be hung.

  78. Even if Dunn is found not guilty in regards to Davis, should he be found guilty of attempted murder, he will going way for a long long time.

  79. J4TMinATL says:

    SOB has CNN interview Monday

  80. What disturbs me about the last set of questions:

    Appears the jury has found him not guilty on one of the 5 counts.

    That sounds to me like the jury found him not guilty of killing Jordan Davis by reason of self-defense and they are arguing about whether self-defense applies to the other three boys.

    • Boyd says:

      That’s why we call it Flori-Duh!

      • Boyd says:

        which would mean all the testimony from the kids and Smith were declared to be lies or irrelevant and the ME was plain stupid and Dunn’s perjury on the stand means he’s Golden.

        • Liza says:

          It would mean that the racists prevailed. They don’t put too much stock in evidence, BTW.

        • breelee says:

          One ray of hope is what was said on CNN, that if dung gets it for the other 3 boys, he’d get 60 years.

          They also said Dung said the other 3 were intertwined with Jordan…huh?

        • How’s this for an irrational verdict:

          Not Guilty of killing Jordan Davis by reason of self-defense but guilty of attempted first degree murder of Tommy Stornes, Tevin Thompson and Leeland Brunson, even though the only person he intended to kill was Jordan Davis.

          Riddle me that, Batman!

          • Dave says:

            I can easily see that coming down as a compromise verdict to avoid a mistrial and allow everybody to go home. The evidence for AM1 with a Firearmis overwhelming and incontrovertible.. The evidence for M2 is very strong. I don’t think that most jurors would buy premeditation for M1 and I can sort of see how someone might claim “reasonable doubt” on the self defense claim. Three counts of AM1 with a Firearm and one of Shooting into a Dwelling should put Dunn away until he’s to old to be dangerous.

    • Liza says:

      That’s what I think while praying I am wrong. It also seems to be what Michael Dunn thinks.

      What happened to the black women, I wonder.

  81. colin black says:

    Used to be whips an serfdom through slavery kept Africans in there place as beast of labour .
    Chattels for ther masters to do with them as they so desired.

    Rape both hetrosexrll or homo sexuall.

    Then with the end of slavery Africans were continued to be kept in bondage due to lack of education job opertunitys exceptin there previous beasts of burden an roles of servatude an no your place.

    Respect your betters.

    Now just as you destroyed Ntive Americans culture with the introduction of fire water .drugs.
    An corral ing them into reservations.

    Today its plentyfull cheap heroin an crack that acts as a cancer to destroy the Minorites youth.

    Thet are enslaved to bondage once again for life .
    Iys the prison industrial complex that expoits an unlmited supply of young uneducated Africans to fill there Concentration camps.

    Where they concentrate on makeing there captors rich for three hots an a cot an some pocket money to spend at the commisary .

    Wich they pay double the prices for produce sold at out side stores .
    There captive customers they cant shop around.

    And if all that fails to make them realise ther not second or even 3rd class citizens but still Chattels to be expoited .

    Then just let random whiye trach/afro peruvian trash blow them to kingdom come if they so much as make eye contact.

    Message even the scumof our white gene pool Is worth more than your brightest an most productive members of you dark skinned demons.!

    • Liza says:

      The racists in this country have gone ballistic since President Obama was elected. They hate all people of color, but reserve a special hatred for black Americans especially in the Confederacy.

      Colin, I honestly believe we are experiencing the last gasp of the white supremacists. The old ones die off and the new ones are going to be outnumbered. That is small comfort as the issues you bring up are very real and affect people’s lives right now. Change is slow, but the changing demographics of this country clearly point to a brighter day.

    • colin black says:

      And Mallisha I hope your gettin my gist now when you didnt understand by this pool of jurours milking it./enjoying there power.
      Knowing millions could be hanging on there every whim thought prosess .
      Or lack there of .


      Time for the farse of a verdict of aquitall or more likely a hung jury .
      If the dissenters that want dunn punished were open to persuassion then they would have caved yesterday.

      Misstrial withinn 9o mins max.

      And the finger haveing tapped the key board clicks on post comment.
      An haveing done so moves on to scratch an itch.

  82. Lynn says:

    Has anyone else noted the lack of concern or even chitchat in all of Dunn’s letter concerning “Charlie”? He only mentions the dog a time or so. I mean, if this dog ruled your life and brought such emotion to you on the stand a year or so later…wouldn’t you inquire in each and every letter to family or at least to the love of your life?

    • ay2z says:

      He did talk about him with Rhonda, but this idea of ‘puppy’ has another side that is useful to him to develop his persona as he wants people to see him.

      That puppy is not the love of his life– let him run off leash, he told Rhonda, the worrywart in one call. (A ‘puppy lost might just be the sympathy factor he can use and it would be Rhonda’s fault, not his)

      The puppy is useful for his public perception, just like he uses race as a way to dehumanize his victims as belonging to some group, applying the biases that might apply to that group in the minds of the jury.

    • Olivia says:

      At trial, his attorney asked about what he took (in the way of supplies) for Charlie.

      Dunn said a kennel (likely a carrier) and food. No mention of toys.

      I don’t believe Dunn took Charlie outside to poo, because at 6 months, puppies have little bowel and bladder control.

      He couldn’t be crate trained at 6 months. Charlie likely pooed and peed in the carrier before Dunn arrived back at the hotel.

      The story about taking Charlie out to toilet, close to the building, and letting Charlie do nothing but toilet then return to the room (quickly, to avoid being outdoors should the thugs arrive at the hotel) was likely told to further Dunn’s “I was afraid of the thugs” message to jurors.

      • Olivia says:

        Doesn’t seem true that a pet-friendly hotel would designate a spot so close to the hotel building (as Dunn described) for dog feces/urine.

        Doubt Dunn had any idea where the dog poo-poo location was at that hotel, because he didn’t take Charlie outside for a potty break before or after Dunn killed Jordan.

      • My dog is just a year old and had great bowel and bladder control at 6 months and would use the doggie door voluntarily. But would likely go if left in a crate by herself for a couple of hours.

  83. These jailhouse phone calls. It’s getting old, listening to them whine about how to pay off the credit cards, and not feeling well.

  84. J4TMinATL says:

    25 hours now or 21 if you count breaks….

    And tomorrow would be Jordan’s 19th birthday.

  85. Trisha0620 says:

    Dunn didn’t like what the Judge told the jury lol he felt the self defense should be all 4 in one not 4 different charges

    • J4TMinATL says:

      Unless one looks at it like bettykath explained above it’s confusing.

      That third question…and the judges answer “not necessarily.”

  86. Barbados, India and Bermuda: Hello and welcome to the site!

  87. Anybody know, did they go out for lunch again?

  88. Marsha says:

    I am 61 now. When I was a child I read about the Holocaust and I knew instantly that what we were being taught in history in school was all wrong. History was presented as humanity getting better and better with all the technological, scientific, and medical advances. And I thought, wait a minute, a modern nation engages in mass murder just a few years before I was born- humanity isn’t getting better; who cares about color TV?

    Then I hit my teens and there was the civil rights movements and the women’s movement and the anti-war movement and I thought wow maybe we can change the world, or at least this country. And we’ll raise our children differently.

    And now here we are still fighting racism and rape culture and economic injustice and an out of control system of law enforcement. And I’m remembering my early conclusion and wondering what the hell is wrong with us, can’t we learn to do better?

  89. ay2z says:

    popup notice on the feed, M’OM is up next, saying there’s a conflict in the jury room, now don’t see that blue note.

  90. J4TMinATL says:

    Watch the video Crane posted of the questions…Crane can you repost it down here?

    Something about that 3rd question and what was the final answer? No or not necessarily. BIG difference.

  91. ay2z says:

    Why is it not a crime to leave the scene? If you run into someone while driving, you leave the scene and it’s a hit and run charge, at least where I live.

    The detectives in the interview video with dunn, explained another case to him, where the person shot in defense and fled to a nearby mall where he was safe, and called 911 to report. He did not flee to a hotel, order pizza and a movie then drive 3 hrs to his home the next morning still without calling police or anyone because ‘it didn’t matter because it was sef-defense’.

    There are choices. The jury will have to see this.

  92. bettykath says:

    I simply can’t focus on just this case. So here’s something else I think this group can “appreciate”. This is from Kansas where its House of Representative just passed a bill to protect the religious beliefs of some.

    Discrimination is horrible. It’s hurtful … It has no place in civilized society, and that’s precisely why we’re moving this bill. There have been times throughout history where people have been persecuted for their religious beliefs because they were unpopular. This bill provides a shield of protection for that.

    The remedy for such a terrible threat is, however, state support for more discrimination. The law empowers any individual or business to refuse to interact with, do business with, or in any way come into contact with anyone who may have some connection to a gay civil union, or civil marriage or … well any “similar arrangement” (room-mates?). It gives the full backing of the law to any restaurant or bar-owner who puts up a sign that says “No Gays Served”. It empowers employees of the state government to refuse to interact with gay citizens as a group. Its scope is vast: it allows anyone to refuse to provide “services, accommodations, advantages, facilities, goods, or privileges; counseling, adoption, foster care and other social services; or provide employment or employment benefits” to anyone suspected of being complicit in celebrating or enabling the commitment of any kind of a gay couple.

    • J4TMinATL says:

      Wow… no words!

    • ay2z says:

      Bettykath, thanks.

    • concernedczen says:

      what the hell are people thinking

    • Dave says:

      So if two men (who are “coincidentally” African American) walk into a restaurant and the manager “suspects” that they might have attended a same-sex wedding he can refuse to serve them?

    • sighhhhh says:

      But telling religious EMPLOYERS they have to give their EMPLOYEES healthcare (including women *gasp*) is discrimination because they aren’t allowed to push their religious anti-reproductive health ignorance on employees. See how that works?

      • bettykath says:

        I think you’re saying that corporations have religious views. Employers are employers and need to follow all rules for employers. They don’t get to pick and choose.

        • sighhhhh says:

          I am mocking the ridiculous idea that religious groups, when acting as employers, can pick and choose which laws to follow based on whatever ignorant religious nonsense they happen to believe–case in point being Catholic groups whining about having to pay for health insurance that includes reproductive healthcare for women.

    • Malisha says:

      Then you can probably kill someone who you think looks gay at you. Folks, this is the end of empire. Empire can only go here and here we are.

  93. This should have been a no-brainer. They take their time, look at evidence: ‘Just checkin’ to see if this is still a no-brainer. Yup, still is!’

    Something like that.

  94. ay2z says:

    dunn is playing the race thing because he can. The jail letters and calls are designed to be his feed to the media, plain and simple, he knows from recent cases that it works to get his ‘testimony’ and to get ‘sympathy’ into jurors minds.

    dunn is one sick bastard, he cares nothing about the race of those kids in the car, he doesn’t care about black kids, he doesn’t care about other human beings period. He doesn’t care about agitating for racial divides for his own purposes, he is above everyone else, doesn’t matter who.

    if dunn walks, or walks out of prison later, he will continue to do as he pleases. Scam insurance or his business partners, violate others human and civil rights,

    I wish the cross of his testimony, could have brought out his true character.

    • Lynn says:

      Question: If, and I shudder to think, IF they hang on murder, the prosecution can retry, right? If they decide to retry can they change up their prosecution tactic on the new trial and bring in every letter and racist issue or do they have to wait until someone brings up character like the series of “peaceful” witnesses did this trial?

      • fauxmccoy says:

        yes, if the jury is hung on murder, it can and likely will be retried. the percentage of trials which attain conviction upon retrial is very high.

  95. 2dogsonly says:

    Croakerqueen123 has trial video up now. She posts many trials w/o any interruptions.
    3. Questions…can they be intertwined. Translation can they consider Jordan started it and Dunn can argue this is justifiable forremainder of shots.

  96. sparger says:

    I hope CNN is right. I don’t want the law of the land to be if you say you are scared you get to start shooting. Can I be scared of anybody for any reason and just start shooting?

  97. Retweeted by Greg Mitchell
    Julia Jones ‏@lightgraphs 1h
    CNN is now saying these questions mean Dunn has already been convicted on a serious charge of murder of Jordan Davis. #DunnTrial

    I suppose anything is possible.

  98. OT: Apparently the US team beat Russia in hockey at the Olympics.

  99. crazy1946 says:

    So I suppose this case will make it legal to leave the scene and not report the action for ten minutes, ten hours, ten days or even ten years if the victim is “just” a young black kid… Does anyone doubt what the verdict would be if the kids had been white and Dunn had been black?

    • Trisha0620 says:

      nope they would have come back with in the hour

    • Trisha0620 says:

      Crazy that is what I cant understand, he left the friggin scene, didn’t call the cops, didn’t do anything. and went back order pizza and walked his friggin dog

      • crazy1946 says:

        Trisha, Not just left the scene, he evaded the police car that was across the street by going thru the parking lot next door to the gas station… He “KNEW” what he had done was wrong.. I suspect that this man had done something similar before and just knew he could make a clean get-a-way, but this time someone got his tag number… His actions after he left tells me he was no stranger to getting away for the scene of the crime…

        • Lynn says:

          The exit from the gas station IS in the parking lot next door. It’s confusing , but that is the way out.
          When the defense says Tommie drove away, he merely pulled just past the exit a few yards and then backed back up to the Gate gas station.
          It’s a cluster&uck of a place to get in and out of.
          Dunn’s “getaway” has him driving right behind Tommie and turning right. On TV everyone was asking why did the boys drive back to the gas station where all this happened? Well, maybe they saw Dunn leaving cause he would have been yards away as he pulled out. That’s how they knew they could go back. The parking lot is a stupid design.

          • crazy1946 says:

            When they had the photo of the gas station showing during the GF’s testimony, the line she drew showed them going past the exit to their left and proceeding into the parking lot next door. Perhaps the photo was wrong and showed an exit from the gas station that was not there. Note she also saw the officer across the street and noted his position in relation to their exit from the gas station.

          • J4TMinATL says:

            I remember someone (officer) mentioning there was an entrance or exit way over to the left of the plaza. Is that correct Lynn?

            What was the point of Strolla putting gas gate station employee (male) on the stand to show him just pictures?

          • Lynn says:

            You are describing the same thing as I am, I think. I don’t know what you mean though by, “Perhaps the photo was wrong and showed an exit from the gas station that was not there.”.
            Google maps (address is 8251 Southside Boulevard
            Jacksonville, FL 32256) gives a overhead view. The brother/sister that were leaving dinner at the plaza witnessed they saw the SUV. I noted where they said it stopped as being even with the blackline going across the roof on the plaza. It is about 1/3 down. Seen easily on maps.
            The officer across the street was further than you might think. That’s why Mr. Guy joked when he asked if Dunn thought the boys might have thrown the gun across the street onto the Publix roof.
            There is the Gate, the Gate gas/parking area, a large grass area, 3 lanes of traffic, small divider, 6 more lanes, large grass median, 2 more lanes, and finally you are in the Publix parking lot where the cop was. I looked at street view from the service road in front of Publix and could barely see the Gate.
            I can’t say Dunn planned a getaway from the cops by driving out the proper exit and going to his hotel the most direct way possible.

          • Lynn says:

            @J4 There is a second exit onto Southside Blvd. from the Plaza just past where Tommie stopped. This is the exit that the brother/sister left by.

          • Lynn says:

            @J4 I think Strolla put him on the stand because he took out the trash from the Gate. He pointed out that the dumpsters were way out back and around the corner.

      • Olivia says:

        Trisha, he wanted to make sure jurors heard that he didn’t walk the pup. Said he only took the pup out long enough to toilet, and only as far as right outside the hotel.

        Taking the pup for a walk when he feared thugs would show up at the hotel?

        Can’t have that. Can’t have he and Rhonda enjoying pizza and booze and walking the pup.

        So, the pizza was barely touched, the booze was drank to calm their distress, and the pup was taken outside close to the building just long enough to poo.

        • Olivia says:

          Entire time at the hotel they’re feeling distressed and fearful the thugs will show up.

          Then they learn that one of the people in the SUV that Dunn shot numerous bullets into is dead.

          Dunn claims to have vomited upon learning that. Claims Rhonda is distressed after learning that.

          Still, they do not call police. Ever.

          Don’t call police when they’re afraid thugs may show up at the hotel, and don’t call police when they learn Dunn killed a teen.

          • Lynn says:

            Dunn testified he was sitting in that hotel area waiting for the thugs and their gangster friends. Rhonda testified that she was sitting there waiting for the police to show up.
            Two different stories.

          • Dave says:

            What better way is there to protect oneself from avenging thugs than by eating pizza and deinking oneself senseless?

  100. Trained Observer says:

    Call me an optimist, but it seems to me:

    *) These jurors are mindful of the scorn heaped upon the Anthony and Zimmerman juries

    *) Accordingly, they are studying finer points or perceived finer points and are seeking clarity for CYA purposes.

    *) Each juror in there has an private agenda accompanying the job of rendering a verdict. At least one wants to wrap it up and get on with personal calendar. At least one wants to string it out because he/she loves this drama, power, attention,camaraderie, even the podunk daily pay (not sure if jury duty compensation is taxable). At least one might want to hang things, thus CYA, or as Judge Judy might say “eating the steak, but taking no blame.”

    *) In addition, at least one juror may be a skilled consensus builder who is systematically working to overcome silly-ass objections or theories held by other jurors.

    For the record, I’d love to know who the foreperson is, and who is the second banana (eqivalent of a congressional whip, who gets people into the fold, while the foreperson runs the discussions and takes care of paperwork like sending notes to the judge. .

  101. shyloh says:

    If Dunn would of sit there after they turned their music back up and just kept his mouth shut while waiting for his boooooooze toting GF to come back out we wouldn’t be here discussing this today.

    The man is deaf in one ear and can’t hear out of the other but he sure heard a lot of things that night!

    • breelee says:

      Even if, and that’s a big if, I thought dung was in fear for his life. Him going home and NOT calling 911 would remove any doubt I had. I’d see him as nothing more than a hot headed racist who thought he got away with murder.

    • Rachael says:

      doesn’t that make it all the more possible that it was unjustified – I mean it was totally possible he did not hear what he thought he heard. And he said something about them singing – they may well have been singing the lyrics of the song they were listening too and just messing with him when he asked if they were talking to him. I mean they were teens in a car listening to music acting like teans in a car listening to music!!! He is the one who was totally irrational.

      • shyloh says:

        Also maybe the young man misunderstood what Dunn was saying. Instead of “you are not going to take to me that way.” Maybe it was, “you are not going to disrespect me that way.” Just guessing. This is a mess. Just a complete mess.

        Rachael, yes, I agree. And all the lies he got caught in. Doesn’t it matter that children are being killed for being children?

      • Olivia says:

        Rachael, if he heard anything above the eardrum rattling bass he claims to have heard, it may very well have been their seeing along to the lyrics.

        If he actually heard voices saying the things he claims the boy(s) said, those voices may have come from the music recording.

        How is it he could hear the bass of the music recording and the boy(s) voices over the bass, but not a SINGLE word of the music recording? Not even in his “sensitive, good ear” that “overcompensates” for his damaged ear?

        “Cracker”? Phtt. When did he add that to the claims of what he heard the boy(s) yell at him?

        Over the bass, he could not hear the lyrics.
        Over the bass, he could hear them yell at him.
        Over the bass, they could hear him politely ask them to turn down the volume.

      • Malisha says:

        “possible he did not hear what he thought he heard” —

        He’s not mistaken; he’s just lying. He didn’t “think” he saw a gun; he didn’t “think” he heard threats. He murdered a kid who would not bow down to him. Then he lied because he didn’t want to go to prison.

    • racerrodig says:

      This crap “…it’s somebody who made me, pushed me, caused me, prodded me, inflamed me, scared me into an act of violence is just beyond outrageous.

      The lies that he told are so obvious and at least part of this jury can’t see what the realities are ??

      What ever happened to mind your own business ? This is beyond perverted and if he walks, the bottom just fell out on morals, justice, humanity, racism… name it….it’s gone.

  102. Trisha0620 says:

    lol J4. pull me back as well..

  103. J4TMinATL says:

    Let me step back from the ledge for a minute. Lol.

  104. Sophia33 says:

    I just saw the questions that they asked. They are going to let this fool off? How could he be justified in shooting at any of them.

  105. Babershoptalker says:

    I tried to warn you all long time ago, even through out the Zimmerman trial, my latest was in the:
    Wednesday night review of the Dunn trial blog when I wrote:

    I must say that I am sitting her craping bricks, because I really can’t say what these folks will believe even in the face of all the solid evidence, even in the face of all the lies this guy told, even in the face of his non-giving a rats a$$ attitude after the event, someone may believe his story…I mean we’ve seen it once

    This is like a horrible dream that only a conviction can wake me up from.

    As we can see there is someone in that room who is openly saying that they probably would have done the same thing in that situation, this is the thing that is the most scariest to all mothers, fathers, sisters and bothers of all young black men. Just as this guy is a copycat now we know (if you didn’t before now) that there will be others two fold if this man get off.

    As far as we would like to think we have come over the decades(and we have made some strides) if this goes down, we will have to go back to the days that all black men not just young had to bow down his head to show no signs of being offensive to a white man or woman.

    Last but not least, I know some will read this and quickly judge me as another angry black man, always pulling the race card, but think about it, is this not the way we got to these two horrible acts in the first place,

    1) A black man can not walk in a neighborhood in which he lives,
    without being judged of being up to something?

    2) A group of black kid can not stop to a store and not have to turn off there music because a white guy pulls up next to them, without being judged as a threat to life?

    3) so can a black man not explain/ express his opinion or just out right speak the truth on a social media blog without being judge as angry?

    Thank for listening.


    • Rachael says:

      No, I would not quickly judge you as another angry black man, because I am a white woman, and I totally agree.

      • breelee says:

        Me too. I’m white with a French brown grand and son. I see how different they’re treated than us “white” folks. Yesterday in walmart, my 10 year old picked up a huge water gun and acted like she was shooting. I cant believe how scared I became and made her stop. : (

        There IS different rules for different colors, period!

        • Rachael says:

          I never allowed my son to play with guns, and even our “water squirters” were not in the shape of guns. He always thought I was crazy. But I’m not the one who is crazy. The ones who are crazy are the Dunn/Outhouse group who think no man should leave his home without a gun strapped to him somewhere or at least a knife – no white man that is. I have never been able to explain to my son how it is okay for white men to have guns and protect themselves and their family, but it is not okay for him to do the same. I fear for my granddaughters.

    • Last but not least, I know some will read this and quickly judge me as another angry black man, always pulling the race card, but think about it, is this not the way we got to these two horrible acts in the first place.

      I don’t believe any human being here, regardless of race, believes your comment is racist.

      You speak the truth.

    • Malisha says:

      Totally agree. Even if you were another angry Black man you would most certainly have good reason to be angry.

    • Liza says:

      Babershoptalker, you’re right, all of it. I am an angry white lady, by the way. Grew up in Jax, on the Southside, just over six miles north of where Jordan Davis was gunned down.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      i do not see you as ‘just another angry black man’. you are speaking truth.

      i am merely an aunt to an adorable bi racial 18 month old nephew who i love dearly. right now, he’s and adorable baby/toddler to most who meet him. i know this will change as he reaches manhood. i also know that his father (my bro in law) has to face such issues every single day and there is precious little i can do to help — other than to be as outspoken and participate in the national dialog as i do here. … and show up for every damn jury summons i receive.

  106. concernedczen says:

    exactly bethkath

  107. crazy1946 says:

    If this jury acquits this SOB of these charges, I demand the BATF immediately arrest and charge him for the illegal possession of the silencer that was found in his car.. It won’t put him away for long, but it will take his gun rights away from him…

  108. The only idiot is me at 8am staring at twitter feeds, blogs, iPads, iPhones.

    • bettykath says:


    • fauxmccoy says:

      well, you are in good company then. this is agonizing. pick up a copy of the tao te ching if it helps. it does for me at some times.

      we are on a raft in a mighty river of life, with currents, under currents, snags and pit falls. we cannot control where that raft is going (this is just how i see life). my peace of mind comes from accepting that i am not in control (and yes, this is a constant struggle for me).

      not trying to impart any major spiritual advice here, just letting you know what i found effective when someone put that book in my hands at 23 and i will be forever grateful.

      BUT, my friend, you are not alone on that raft. we are all here with you, if you find any comfort in that.

  109. J4TMinATL says:

    order to say that the killing was justifiable, jurors must believe it occurred while resisting an attempt to murder or commit a felony against Dunn.

    I’m not sure how this question is going to help. It’s confusing. C) Or if we determine deadly force is justified against one person, is it justified against others?  A: “No. Self defense and justifiable use of deadly force applies separately to each count.”

    If you find him justified in killing Davis you must find him not guilty of all accounts…that’s what Strolla said in closings. I’m not sure why Strolla did not object to the judges’ answer.

    • bettykath says:

      He didn’t object b/c the judge was right according to the law.

      • J4TMinATL says:

        I don’t believe they can convict him of attempted murder once you’ve decided it was justifiable.

        I don’t read or interpret the law that way.

        • bettykath says:

          Guess you disagree with the judge who says that’s the way it is and the attorneys agree with the judge.

          What you’re suggesting is that once the fear sets in that it’s ok to kill anyone in sight whether they are a threat or not.

        • bettykath says:

          The attempted murder charges are for the other three teens, not Jordan.

          • J4TMinATL says:

            I understand that. I’m having a hard time understanding the language and law I suppose because it’s in addition to the main charge which has a possible defense.

            I’m just going to be quiet because I don’t know what I’m talking about. And I’m confused. Your 2nd explanation made more sense to me.

    • bettykath says:

      C) Or if we determine deadly force is justified against one person, is it justified against others?

      Let me try: if we determine deadly force is justified against Jordan, is it justified against the other three? We have some idiots who think Dunn was justified in being fearful of the unarmed kid in the back who mouthed off, now these idiots say Dunn had a right to be fearful of the other three who were just trying to get the hell out of there.

      A: “No. Self defense and justifiable use of deadly force applies separately to each count.”

      No. You have to consider whether or not Dunn had reasonable fear to use deadly force against each of the unarmed kids, individually just trying to get the hell out of there.

      • J4TMinATL says:

        He said he shot until the threat was removed. And that he didn’t know how many times he shot. It’s a hard sell bk once the killing is justified, no?
        Only shot I could see is the one in the back that almost hit Tommie. Jury also needs to be in agreement on which set occurred first.

        • Olivia says:

          J4TMinATL, was it you who commented on an earlier thread about parking 2 similar vehicles side by side? If so, did you check to see the impossibility of having a space between the 2 vehicles to open a very wide door the size of the rear door on the Durango?

          • J4TMinATL says:

            It was me. We did multiple scenarios. Parked really close. I could in fact open rear passenger door and still get out.

  110. Boyd says:

    A bunch of idiots trying to be analytical EQUALS a disaster

    • bettykath says:

      I don’t all members of that jury are idiots. If they were, there would have been a not guilty verdict in less than an hour of deliberation.

      • Boyd says:

        I was going off the Judge’s comments. no need to be analytical, follow the evidence. all that speculation should have ended with Smith telling AC he did not see anyone get out of the car.

        Beyond a reasonable doubt, you have a witness who never saw a kid get out of the car. before or at the time Dunn fired.

        Did not mean all of them. Someone in there is a intentional moron

        • Boyd says:

          I just cringe when I hear about folks being analytical.

          Like at work I’ll have managers try to analyze engineering issues, when they have a business degree., or some basic IT degree. Like dude, I don’t advise you on your accounting methods.

          But they sit in these meetings and give you their what if’s, or can you do this or that.

    • J4TMinATL says:

      Yesterday was yesterday. They made it clear today.

    • Liza says:

      You make a good point. A lot of people in this country are too stupid / uneducated to understand evidence and jury instructions. I fully believe such individuals are present on the Dunn jury.

  111. neveragain says:

    So should you be armed or unarmed??..because if you are armed and u get into an arguement….you ciuld get shot and the person who shoots you could simply say they saw a weapon or you reached fir your gun??….blacks should not have guns in their cars or on their person even if it is legal??

    • Good point, as I have said, I don’t care if they were all licensed to carry and on their way to a range. Shooting people in the back is unacceptable.

      The old next-day-when-you-sober-up ‘I thought I saw a gun’ defense. Outrageous.

    • bettykath says:

      What’s legal for some isn’t legal for others. This applies to poor whites as well. btw, have you noticed how some people get sent away for, oh, let’s say insider trading (Martha Stewart), and some don’t, e.g. Congress people who buy or sell based on decisions they make that the public isn’t privy to? How about fraud? How many people have been convicted of welfare fraud of a few hundred dollars while banksters commit fraud that puts thousands out of their homes and causes a serious worldwide financial crisis and their banks pay a fine and they get bonuses.

      I have always refused to carry a gun b/c I never want to arm an intruder/mugger/whatever.

  112. bettykath says:

    Whoaaaaaa. Calm down. The questions yesterday suggest that they are deadlocked on count 1. This is NOT a not guilty determination.

    The questions today suggest that there is disagreement about self-defense/use of force for each of the other counts. This suggests to me that the juror/s who believed self-defense for count 1 are claiming automatic self-defense for counts 2-4. The judge just told them “no”, that they have to consider each count separately. The question is, can those who voted guilty on count 1 convince those who voted not guilty on count 1 that the danger was removed and self-defense doesn’t apply? If they can convince them that there was no reasonable fear, we might see “guilty” for counts 2-4. If they can’t we might see a hung jury on all counts.

    I’m not there, of course, but I do think this is a rational possibility. It’s far more rational, imo, than all 12 agreeing on “not guilty” for anything.

  113. State of Florida v Michael Dunn, from the clerk, document dump, the legal pleadings:

  114. sparger says:

    @Trisha, who are you reading that is doing courthouse updates?

    • Trisha0620 says:

      one of the reporters on CNN was in there and she stated that while the judge was answering the questions that was going on, and interesting enough the ones agreeing were two of the younger people Ill have to go back and listen to who the others were. so we have at least 4 in there that know the law somewhat

  115. Trisha0620 says:

    it appears the jury is split in two one side wants murder the other doesn’t which is why these questions are being asked, and it appears one side is explaining the law to the other group, who don’t seem to understand it, while the judge was answering their questions, at least 4 of the jury members were agreeing with what he was explaining to them.

  116. sparger says:

    People say you shouldn’t play the “race card”. I think if race was pushed in their faces and they weren’t pretending we live in a color blind world they could have exposed Dunn for the racist he is.

  117. sparger says:

    I want to be wrong. I think they are trying to let this ass walk. I am just hoping for a hung jury,

  118. Rachael says:

    Today I will be attending the birthday party of my 2-year-old granddaughter. Please do not let this be the day I have to fear the rest of her life she could be shot just because she is multiracial. Please!!!

    • Malisha says:

      Just shocks us because to one degree or another we have bought the fantasy that we live in the home of the free and the brave. If a kid is not free to “mouth off” in a parking lot to a bully in another car, and if we then have to caution our children to NOT BE BRAVE because it is legal to kill them without provocation, we should either fess up to how bad we are as a nation or leave and bad-mouth the Hell-Hole we abandoned. Unfortunately, many of us who cannot love it also have no resources to leave it.

      • Rachael says:

        I lived in such fear during my son’s teen years. I had always raised him to speak up. He did. He was never one to let anyone bully him or anyone else (he is a little guy, maybe 5’3″). When he was in kindergarten, his teacher said his “bossiness” was leadership qualities. However, as a teen, I’m just thankful he didn’t get himself killed. I am so glad I get to see him today and hug him hard. He could so easily have been Trayvon, standing his own ground for his life against a vigilante asshole, or Jordan, just hanging out with his friends, being silly as teens are.

    • *tears* America is broken. Our world is broken.

      • Trisha0620 says:

        its been broken, which makes me really fear for my grandchild. its becoming really clear that this law makes it open season on our children and grandchildren..

  119. neveragain says:

    So what if there was an illegal gun in the SUV with Jordan’s fingerprint on it, but no one brandished it……..I have a freind with an illegal gun…I begged him to get rid if it cause it ciuld get him in trouble……..all one needs to say is they saw a gun, all one needs to say is they saw a gun or he was reaching…….this is frightening…….what if theboys had a gun and they never brandished it but they just shit back after being shot after by dunn…….this is not about evidence, this is nit about commonsense……..

  120. Trisha0620 says:

    this is crazy not only did he kill an unarmed kid, he shot up the SUV with 3 other people in it, he could have killed all of them and left the friggin scene and didn’t call the police, this is really ticking me off,

    • YQ says:

      Yeah. “Self-defense” trumps ALL of that??? This is crazy. Why can they let experts become jurors like they do in Germany?

      • Um, that would make way too much sense. This is America, where acting like a giant armed two-year-old and an animal trumps all:

      • breelee says:

        I’ve been saying that for years. Now that we know racists cant leave their beliefs out of the jury room, we have to stop this madness. What you suggested makes total sense. We’d have fair juries, and the folks who don’t want to serve are off the hook. Its a win-win, but will probably never happen. Too many crooks like this screwed up system.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Trisha, those bullets could have mowed down other preoccupied bystanders coming out of/going into the store … they would have never know what was coming. Definitely reckless discharge of a firearm. When I go to a store, I don’t expect for some pissed off patron to take out his grievances on other customers with gunshot.

  121. Marsha says:

    I am glad I am here with you guys. I don’t want to be alone if this man is acquitted.

  122. Shit’s starting to look like Kelly Thomas.

    Our criminal ‘justice system’ is totally fucking broken. I have been saying this for years, and the proof just keeps rolling in.

    • Malisha says:

      Crane, I agree 100%. Since 1982 I have been saying that our courts are [and now HAVE] destroy[ing][ed] us. Our legislatures are not nearly as bad; our executive branch is up and down and just as corrupt as its own jurisdiction designs it, but nation-wide, cause-wide, and case-wide (civil, criminal, family, administrative), our courts are destroying [have destroyed] us.

      • Totally and utterly surreal. Still seeing stuff in my own case that is so far beyond the pale….but I really think things are actually even getting worse. Last couple of years? Worse. They’ve removed the bottom and we are in free-fall.

        Some how, some way, people have got to open their eyeballs and wake the fuck up.

    • J4TMinATL says:

      These instructions are fucked up too. They had definitions too….

  123. Trisha0620 says:

    its by far worse,

  124. Boyd says:

    They need to exam placing psychlogical exams on Jurors.

    any disagreemtn or bad feelings about anyone call 911. enough of this shit.

  125. I believe that an acquittal in this case will be even more offensive than Zimmerman’s acquittal

    • Malisha says:

      I agree wholeheartedly. Fogen at least showed a picture (which the prosecutor should not have let in) of his capillary type lacerations and at least he wore bandaids. This wus just said he saw an imaginary gun “or a stick.”

      Florida needs to pass a law that being a 17-year-old African American Male constitutes the crime of “thuggery” and that one guilty of the crime of “thuggery” can be executed at any time without a warrant.

    • Rachael says:

      I totally agree. This will now say that what he said in his letters – about needing to shoot a few of them so they will act right – is okay. That is totally agreeing with that type of thinking. This can’t be happening here in the US, it just can’t be!!!

    • Liza says:

      Yesterday I started thinking that the jury might be looking for a way to slap Dunn’s hand without outright acquittal because his crime was so egregious. This would be similar to what happened to Oscar Grant’s killer, Johannes Mehserle, because there was the video of him killing Grant while Grant was face down and restrained. It might be possible that the Dunn jury can’t figure out a hand slap.

      I still believe that racism rules the day in that jury room.

    • racerrodig says:

      If you look at Fogen’s case from a legal standpoint, it’s more believable as there are no live witnesses as to the start and end other than Fogen.

      The evidence however proves him a liar and guilty.

      Duuhhnnn has so many witnesses and piles of evidence against him, it should be a lock for a conviction.

      The only common element…….Fl jurors.

  126. neveragain says:

    Like I said before…to some jurors,the evidence plays no part in their decision….thay may act/pretebd that it does……aanyone who believes Dunn’s and Zimmerman’s bullshit story don’t care about justice for a certain sect of the population

    • neveragain says:

      All one has to do is CLAIM THAT THEY SAW A GUN…….and they were scared and give the most ridiculius story……I didn’t shoot when I saw the gun but I shot when he came out…a person with a gun becomes dangerius when they step out of their vehicle, but apparently they are not dangerous inside of their vehicle…….

  127. Boyd says:

    if he gets off, everyone should call 911 if someone looks threatening right away. This gives anyone the precedent to fire shots at you. I’ll be writing down license plates in any road rage incidents.

    • Malisha says:

      Write down license plates and call 911 in all parking lots too.
      ALL parking lots ALL THE TIME.

      Everyone in Florida go take out protective orders against Fogen and FoDung. They get easily scared and might shoot you.

      • Boyd says:

        Flip me the finger, I’ll tell cops I thought it was a gun I can play this game

        • breelee says:

          Our kids have no chance if he walks. We have no chance against bullies if he walks. I wish I didn’t love animals so much, I’d hope Charlie looked at someone like he was going to bite them. uggg, I hate myself for even saying that, but if dung walks, I want him to hurt.

  128. Tee says:

    They are going to let another white man get away with killing a young black boy! We might as well go back to Jim Crow time, when a black person had to walk around scared of whites. I think its in my best intrest to arm my son now. He maybe 18 but I would love to see him graduate from college, get married and have babies. Yes arming my son taking him to the gun range to teach him how to shoot is the best thing to do.

    • Rachael says:

      Please, not today – at least not until later. I’m going to my granddaughter’s 2nd birthday party. I want to live in ignorant bliss at least until it is over.

    • The racism test: reverse the races and make the shooter black, boys white, no other details changed. It would never have made it to trial; he would have, rightfully, been convinced to make a deal and plead guilty of second degree murder. The only explanation has to be that black people are not seen as PEOPLE.

      • ay2z says:

        By dunn and his ilk. He may not even care about being racist, it’s the excuse to bully, kill, excuse for his anger against ‘his’ women who might contradict him and fear him, excuse for his anger against his own white son, who he had not seen but 3 times in 15 years.

        Racism may be the way to do what he wants, not killing a white kid in the same Red Durango with oversized speakers blasting might not give him the excuse to rally racists to his side.

        He talked about the jury pool and how most were whites in the area. Works well for him.

        I don’t think race of his victims is ultimately his goal, if killing and abusive behaviour is his thing, it’s convenient for him, but he doesn’t only select his victims by race, not when it includes his own family. He had control of his ‘wives’ who were not white with the protection of citizenship, he used women who he could more easily control, not because they were Mexican and not necessarily white, but because he had a way to make them accept his abuse and not complain.

        Racist yes, of course. But he uses it for his own sick purposes.

      • The reverse-the-races test is a reliable way to detect the presence of race-based assumptions about an individual.

        At the very least, I believe we need to have a jury instruction that specifically prohibits race-based assumptions and recommends the use of the reverse-the-races test to detect race-based assumptions during deliberations.

    • ay2z says:

      ‘another racist white man’. Big difference. 🙂

  129. YQ says:

    Awww, man. C’mon!!! Seriously??? This isn’t right!!! So, the MEs testimony is disregarded in a murder trial????

  130. Florida statutes for firing into an occupied dwelling.

    790.19 Shooting into or throwing deadly missiles into dwellings, public or private buildings, occupied or not occupied; vessels, aircraft, buses, railroad cars, streetcars, or other vehicles.—Whoever, wantonly or maliciously, shoots at, within, or into, or throws any missile or hurls or projects a stone or other hard substance which would produce death or great bodily harm, at, within, or in any public or private building, occupied or unoccupied, or public or private bus or any train, locomotive, railway car, caboose, cable railway car, street railway car, monorail car, or vehicle of any kind which is being used or occupied by any person, or any boat, vessel, ship, or barge lying in or plying the waters of this state, or aircraft flying through the airspace of this state shall be guilty of a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
    History.—s. 2, ch. 3281, 1881; RS 2696; ss. 1, 2, ch. 4987, 1901; ss. 1, 2, ch. 4988, 1901; GS 3628; RGS 5560; CGL 7746; s. 1, ch. 59-458; s. 752, ch. 71-136; s. 1, ch. 74-67.


    (c) For a felony of the second degree, by a term of imprisonment not exceeding 15 years.

  131. J4TMinATL says:

    They could already have a verdict on the other counts but they just want to make sure that they understand the law correctly. Their 3 questions tell me those jury instructions are too difficult and they don’t understand the law and how to apply it.

    A) Is the defense of self-defense separate for each person in each count? A: “Yes.”

    B) Are we determining if deadly force is justified against each person in each count? A: “Yes.”

    C) Or if we determine deadly force is justified against one person, is it justified against others?  A: “No. Self defense and justifiable use of deadly force applies separately to each count.”

    • Boyd says:

      That’s what I’ve been saying about Dunn and Zimmerman. The jury instructions are ridiculous. it’s like their designed for a self-defense story of any kind.

    • 2dogsonly says:

      Can a justifiable use be CONSIDERED…not does it apply
      Yes can be CONSIDERED as a defense on count 1
      Can it be CONSIDERED on other counts
      Can a self defense be considered as causing Dunn to open fire on other SUV passengers.
      No, said judge.
      Each count is separate. Not intertwined.
      Dunn objected to his own attorney agreeing. On record and in open court. Therefore, this is preserved in even of a hung jury.

      Croakerqueen123 on you tube posts trials almost immediatly

  132. CherokeeNative says:

    It appears that they have found “self-defense” for Dunn’s murder of Jordan. This is truly fucked up – What in the hell is wrong with our country? All I can say is if you are a person of color, you need to move to the West Coast – get out of Florida NOW. The thought of this arrogant asshole getting away with murder makes me sick – thank you very much Florida for emboldening more racists. I’m disgusted.

  133. Trisha0620 says:

    if they determine an argument between two people in different cars which leads to someone shooting and killing someone in another car as self defense then we system isn’t worth crap,

    • Malisha says:

      It also makes every bully with a gun into a king. And a judge. So the message is: BE VERY AFRAID AT ALL TIMES. Bow down to whoever tries to bully you. Never “talk back” to armed angry white men. FEAR AT ALL TIMES.

      Hey, wait a minute. That’s China! That’s not FREEDOM. That’s IRAN. That’s YEMEN. That’s not FREEDOM.

  134. These questions suggest that the jury has acquitted Dunn on the murder charge involving Jordan Davis and they are hung up on the attempt charges.

    Bad news.

    • MDH says:

      Our only hope is that some of the jurors have acquitted Dunn based on self defense and that this is the wall they ran into in that does accepting self defense apply to all of the charges.

      If not one juror held out for guilty, then this trial is a testament to the lack of intestinal fortitude on the part of Americans.

    • bettykath says:

      I disagree. I think that there is one or more who buy the self-defense argument. It does not mean that all 12 do. Based on a previous question, I think the jury is deadlocked on the first count with one or more saying not guilty b/c of self-defense and one or more saying guilty of something. They have agreed to disagree and have moved on to considering the other counts.

      Today’s questions suggest that they are arguing about whether or not the self-defense/deadly force against Jordan automatically carries over to the other three counts. The judge says “no”, you have to consider whether deadly force is justified against each one individually. This means that those who voted not guilty on the first count due to self-defense need to drop that self-defense argument for the other counts and consider the other counts separately. If this doesn’t work, if the not-guilty folks maintain that Dunn was justified in using deadly force in all cases, we may see a hung jury on all counts.

      • concernedczen says:

        yes, bethkath

        these questions suggest there is one person who irrationally wants to acquit Dunn and is using self defense as the excuse against Jordan

        the other jurors are arguing that self defense does not apply to the other 3 boys

        they are not going to acquit him of murder…it is hung

        it is probably hung on all charges as the one or few irrational racist jurors will not want to convict him of anything

      • MDH says:

        So we may see a hung jury on the M1 count and a possible conviction on attempted murder because Dunn kept on firing at a fleeing SUV?

    • Trained Observer says:

      Bad news, if true, but it’s hard to believe they’d acquit Dunn on the one sure-fire thing: Jordan’s dead from 3 bullets Dunn fired. If nothing else, that’s manslaughter, and that’s one of their options. Could get him up to 35 years, I think.

      • J4TMinATL says:

        They can’t even get to the point of considering lessers if it’s justifiable in their minds. SMH

        • racerrodig says:

          Even Texas convicts in cases like this anymore. How they can be so blind whether intentionally or just stupidly blind is incredible.

          So in FL just utter the words “I was scared” “T(he)y had a gun” “It was them or me” and get that get out of jail free card……go on a victory tour with Fogen…..

          Maybe those 2 will stage a “celebrity boxing match” and both drop dead in the middle of it. That would be poetic justice.

          I just keeping everything crosses one of these jurors steps forward and tells them to wake up……the whole world is watching.

  135. colin black says:

    I cant take it be back laters to discuss another travesty of an unjust verdict.

  136. Jury questions:

    (1) Is the defense of self-defense separate for each person in each count?

    (2) Are we determining if deadly force is justified against each person in each count?

    (3) Or if we determine deadly force is justified against one individual, must we determine that deadly force is justified against another individual?

  137. J4TMinATL says:

    They’re going to acquit on his.

  138. colin black says:

    To even be considering self defence shows this jurys intention to let this P O S WALK.
    An dunn has objections I was shitting bricks all off them scared me an looked mean so I get to kill em all right?

    Judge keeps praiseing the good people on the Jury.

  139. J4TMinATL says:

    Stupid stupid stupid.

  140. J4TMinATL says:

    What’s happening

  141. I am really close to turning this fucked up bullshit off. If they acquit, it’s a license to kill.

    • ZCBest says:

      I am stepping away. Going to my son’s wrestling match, where I hope he pins the hell out of some kid for me since I am so amped up. I will check in later, but I need to take a moment and concentrate on the things I love in life. The hard part is knowing, I have not control or power in protecting the people most dear to me. Sad but true.

    • Malisha says:

      Fogen getting off was the license to kill. In fact, white men in the South had a license to kill all along. It just got temporarily revoked FOR SOME PEOPLE for a few years. It only got temporarily revoked for people whose surviving relatives had a bit of clout or a bit of influence or who were able to get someone to take the unusual step of holding a white man accountable for crimes against a non-white. But it was there; it was acted on every day. And a lot of the problems our society faces are traceable to that license.

    • Rachael says:

      Yes, it certainly is. I am just sick today, sick.

      • ay2z says:

        They still have to decide on self-defense verdicts to put a check at each count.

        This may be a formality? (holding breath they sort this out and clear off the overthinking, getting rid of the big evidence boxes not needed, is a good start)

        It was self-defense for ‘them’ as dunn keeps repeating in his words, ‘they’ were after him, ‘them’, not single person, not even the driver who controlled the vehicle. Dunn wants ‘them’ and ‘they’, afterall, ‘they’ were all thugs out to get ‘him’. Isn’t that was ‘racism’ is about, grouping a ‘they’ or ‘them’. Therefore, the ‘whole’ is to blame, for whatever ‘ism’ happens to be useful.

        (PS, did anyone get from the jail calls, that Rhonda is a nurse (of some description or other, care aide, practical nurse, RN), and she did not worry about anyone being even hit by some fragment of glass to their face? No need to worry, it’s only Michael, it’s all fine she tells the store customers/clerks?)

        She is no nurse.

  142. YQ says:

    Wow… how are they doing this??? Self defense counts seperate for each person??? Given the facts of this case????

  143. Malisha says:

    If FoDung gets off and DOJ does not investigate Corey’s crowd, there really needs to be something more than talk about what is wrong; there really needs to be change that cannot be talked away. There are very few kinds of change that fit that description.

  144. ZCBest says:

    John M. Phillips ‏@JohnPhillips 4m
    Juror questions are just that- a question one juror wants to ask. It’s not always the “jury’s question.”

  145. Malisha says:

    WHAT QUESTION was asked about self-defense?

  146. bettykath says:

    Sounds like deadlock on 1st count based on self-defense being considered valid.

    In discussion of attempted murder they want clarification of self-defense/justifiable use of force against the others.

  147. Trisha0620 says:

    Im sorry but in those calls she is as bad as he is

    • breelee says:

      I feel the same way, and not only her but his parents also. Its like the Zimmerman gang all over again. I really paid attention to how Rhonda’s voice went from girlish, to regular. She plays the game well. It made me sick how none of them care a child lost his life.

  148. colin black says:

    Hate to be right an still hopeing against reality that In wrong.
    I cant bear to watch another got away with it smirk.

    Pray for Jordans Parents.

  149. Is the defense of self-defense separate for each person in each count?


    • Malisha says:

      How can he be defending himself against the kid who turned the music OFF?

      • How is shooting somebody in the back self-defense?

        • ay2z says:

          According to dunn, once he had everything all figured out to say for trial, is that the gun could be turned back over a shoulder and shot, with the shooter’s back to him.

          No evidence, mind you, no evidence at all. Like for instance, no blasted out back window of the Durango, no customers at the gas bar area hit or running for cover. Really, did they stand and stare while a shooter was lleaving without running, taking cover? If by any ‘sense’ they felt something was wrong and about to happen?

          Common sense, no one ducked from the Red Durango as the driver fled to save his and his friends lives. Isn’t that strange? No one there had survival instinct kick in for a fraction of the moment fearing ‘return fire’? Didn’t see anyone screaming for their lives. And Dunn could have held the gun on the Durango as he fled to cover, instead he put himself in the open, knowing what he was doing and doing without fear but a hateful anger, “you aren’t going to talk to me that way.”

          • Right, plus I am tripping on the 20 years for the warning shot Alexander case.

            Next thing you know there’ll be more art in hell on eBay from Michael Dunn. The message is, to move ahead in life, kill an unarmed black teen in Florida and then order pizza.

            It’s called failing upward.

      • crazy1946 says:

        Or the driver that was not in the car during the verbal portion…

  150. I am almost afraid to ask. Are these people going to acquit him of the Jordan Davis murder?

  151. ZCBest says:

    This question leads me to believe they want to say he was justified against Jordan! Trying not to get pissed and fly to florida right now. Talk me off this ledge or out of this security screening line.

      • ZCBest says:

        Oh my dear Crane, it’s way fucked up! It’s so hard to look at my son in the eyes when I see crap like this. What do I tell my son who is 7? Be very afraid little brown boy, be very afraid.

        • Having ugly thoughts, that I need to keep to myself. I don’t know what I would say, if my little boy was brown. I really have no idea.

          “We have some laws for some people some of the time, but not for you.”

          • ZCBest says:

            You totally get it. That’s exactly what I will have to tell him. And the look on his face of confusion will be priceless.

        • Rachael says:

          Yes, ZCBest – that is exactly what you have to do. It will tear your heart apart. It was really hard for me as a white woman to tell my brown son this. It hurt like hell. I hate that it is this way. He is my son. That is why I feel so deeply about this stuff. Any one of these kids could be my son and it is SO wrong that there are pieces of crap out there that hate “my kids” not because they are acting like kids or they hate kids, but because they are brown.

    • Rachael says:

      Like I said, apparently white gun-toting males seem to believe that they MUST carry guns and knives – and I’m sure they don’t allow their sons to go out without a knife in their pocket – but it is not okay for black kids to do the same.

      An adult having to “defend” his life against music. Disgraceful. I am in tears this morning, I am so frustrated. I want to SCREAM – but it isn’t even 7:00 yet on the west coast. I am sick, just sick that there are people in this world that would have to even consider whether or not this was justifiable.

      • ZCBest says:

        I just may vomit Rachael. This is so blatant that my stomach can’t hold it anymore. I am so mad and hurt that I can’t even explain what I feel. This is why I took a major break after the Fogen trial. I don’t have the temperament for this crap. I just keep thinking about what this means for my son who will one day be a teenager. One thing is for sure, Florida is no longer a destination that we will ever be traveling to. Sad too, cause my husband went to undergrad in Jacksonville and would love to move there one day. Even he says, hell the to naw on that now!

        • Rachael says:

          My son is only a couple years older than Trayvon which is how I got started in all this – and I know exactly how you feel. The thought that my son was this cute and wonderful kid, but now – as a teen, a “thug,” was overwhelming to me. He is now a successful young man with a job, a wife and 2 kids, but even now, I don’t feel he is safe. And what is worse, I worry about my two beautiful granddaughters.

      • Effeminate pussies, the whole damn lot of them.

        • speedster says:

          And the mere thought of Fogen being on TV for an interview and possibly talking about Duhhnn and spewing that shit of being illegally prosecuted for shooting unarmed teens and how heroic they are…….is beyond nauseating.

          Those 2 asswipes, holding each others hand up like winning boxers saying “we overcame” …….and the Govt just looks on.

  152. crazy1946 says:

    Nope, another set of question… It looks like they are going to let this SOB walk…

  153. We have another question re: self-defense.

  154. crazy1946 says:

    Looks like me might have a verdict… Keep fingers and toes crossed…

  155. Rachael says:

    went over to the outhouse – just wanted to see what they thought about the Dunn case.

    Makes me want to cry. There are a few who are “sensible,” but most seem to feel that because they were “acting like thugs,” i.e., had lout music on, they deserved to be shot. A few went on to say that yes indeedy there WAS a weapon, they found a knife on Jordan.

    So what does that mean? They “found” a knife on him. They had to actually FIND it. It wasn’t like it was there, they FOUND it on him. The exact quote they made was “Jordan Davis had a tactical knife on him when his body was searched.” And those fucking gun lovers, you know, the ones who never go out without a gun, are whining because a kid was found with a knife? Why is that a problem? I’m sure it is okay for THEM to carry knives. Certainly it is okay for them to carry guns. In fact, they insist they MUST be allowed to carry guns – and knives – for protection, of course. They ADVOCATE for it. I mean after all, Dunn had a gun – a good idea, right. Sigh. But it is not okay for Jordan to have a knife. Why – oh yeah. He’s black. Black kids can’t have guns or knives with them. That makes the already thugs even thuggier. But wait – WHO had the gun here? Who started a confrontation? Who is the “thug? OMG

    You have NO idea how angry I am. I just can’t believe this, I just can’t.

    • Malisha says:

      It is what I would expect at the Outhouse.
      I’m surprised they aren’t calling for indicting the surviving three for thuggery against an innocent white shooter and pro-thug perjury.

    • The administrators over there had the decency to keep people from spouting racist crap during the Fogen trial because they knew zillions of other people were reading there. They’re spouting incredibly racist rants now, no moderation, because apparently they think no one is looking at this case.

      • Rachael says:

        I know. The responses to the article about the Olympics is disgusting. If anyone were ever to ask me for a definition of racism, I would tell them to go look at that blog. It is THE definition of racism.

  156. As I said last night, I believe they have rejected self-defense or they would have found Dunn not-guilty on all counts.

    Since they have reached a verdict on some counts, but not others, I believe they are arguing about his mental state and whether they can convict him of attempting to kill Leeland Brunson when he was shooting at Jordan Davis attempting to kill him.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Fingers crossed, let’s hope that it.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      fred says
      As I said last night, I believe they have rejected self-defense or they would have found Dunn not-guilty on all counts.[/quote]

      i have to agree. if they were accepting self defense, we’d have seen an acquittal days ago.

  157. I have this other link open on a tab as well, from Action News Jax dot com, WTEV. They also have a Live Stream:

  158. Malisha says:

    I don’t know why this part of the FoDung trial has made me go back in memory to the De’Marquise Elkins case, but it did. Something bothered me about that case from the very beginning. It seemed to me that there was much MORE than reasonable doubt about what happened there, and yet the only blip the case made on the screen amounted to: “SEE, ZIMMERMAN IS INNOCENT BECAUSE BLACK KIDS KILL WHITE BABIES IN FRONT OF THEIR MOTHERS.” I think Elkins (the 17-year-old Black kid convicted of the crime) was a petty criminal and I think he was a violent person but the case just stinks, to me. And it continues to nag me even though I haven’t had the intestinal fortitude to go back and study it and pick it apart and really look into what made me so uncomfortable. If I were a writer writing up what really happened there for — oh, say, a “Law and Order” episode — I’d do this.

    Mom wants the insurance.
    She knows Elkins or his accomplice through some past “deal.”
    She pays him to stage a robbery.
    He does.
    She then does the “hysterical bereaved mommy” routine and collects.
    He goes to jail for life and becomes an icon of “Black on White Crime” to feed Outhousers.
    Even his mother goes to jail for trying to help him evade capture.
    His side-kick testifies against him to get off easier.
    The baby’s father at first has some qualms, but later, not so much.
    The mom’s older daughter by a different father freely gives interviews, right after the crime, saying that her mother could well have been involved. This is the big “UHOH” to me. This absolutely could not have happened if the story were exactly as LE wants it to lie. Pun intended.

    • I absolutely agree with you. Something is wrong with this case. Very wrong.

    • Liza says:

      I tried to follow that case but there was very little written about it in the newspapers that had any kind of depth. It was only the defense attorney who tried get a different story out there and he wasn’t successful. But I do remember that baby Santiago’s father had gunshot residue on his hands (if I’m not mistaken) and the mother had it on her person when they were tested.

      I think the kids were involved, but I also think there was a damn good chance they were set up by Santiago’s father who may have been the shooter. We’ll never know, no one seems to care unless some Innocence Project takes up the case.

    • Liza says:

      Also, the mother of Baby Santiago was very strange in her interviews, had a very strange demeanor. I always sensed she was acting. And they threw out all of the kid’s belongings right away, all of his toys, etc… Very questionable, the whole thing.

  159. Malisha says:

    It would seem to me that none of the following issues are even possible sources of reasonable doubt:

    FoDung arrived at the scene AFTER the SUV;
    FoDung parked near the SUV while the loud music was playing;
    FoDung spoke first to the four in the SUV;
    FoDung’s bullets were the only bullets shot;
    Three of FoDung’s bullets hit and killed Davis.
    FoDung left the scene uninjured.
    FoDung did not ascertain, before leaving the scene, whether any individuals within range of his bullets had been injured.

    With this set of information available, I don’t know how any 12 people can say there is reasonable doubt that FoDung committed at least one felony.

    • crazy1946 says:

      Malisha, You left off that he “never” (contrary to his testimony) never made an effort to contact the authorities about the shooting… He thought he had gotten away with murder… Was this the first murder he committed or the first he got caught on?

      • Malisha says:

        I agree.
        He could have perpetrated plenty of drive-by shootings before, just whenever he got that old “bad feeling” about his manhood and needed to buck up a little. Just not with girlfriend along — or maybe WITH girlfriend along, or wife along. According to his neighbors’ interview, he had his wives very VERY intimidated. They could STILL be hiding murders they know about, afraid to speak, and thinking, “I can’t bring back the dead so I better shut up about it.”

        • Boyd says:

          Interesting, I’d check any unsolved crimes for a match to his gun. yeah, would not surprise me if this guy put a silencer on and went shooting.

          • ay2z says:

            That gun doesn’t mark very well, according to testimony by the ballistics technician, so who would ever know?

            Would be interesting to investigate whether the barrel had been smoothed out, afterall, rifling and distance accuracy may not be necessary for close range, as well, hollow points are not target sport choice, I suspect.

          • Dave says:

            Hollowpoint bullets typically deform so much (as they did in this case) that they can’t be matched to a specific gun. Also silencers are only effective on guns firing subsonic ammunition and are most commonly fitted to .22LR caliber pistols.

          • masonblue says:

            Thanks, didn’t know that about silencers.

      • lurker says:

        I have wondered about that myself. I gotta think that Rhonda may have some tales to tell.

        • crazy1946 says:

          It looks like in the state of Florida it is legal, if you’re white and upper middle class, to murder black children with no real fear of punishment. Rhonda is in grave danger, she did not say what was expected of her… At some point people will cease to take this type of discrimination and violence will ensue… How many more children need to be murdered before we wake up and take a stand?

  160. J4TMinATL says:

    Crane did you finish listening to the phone calls?

  161. Jurors have arrived. They want “the big evidence boxes” removed from the jury room because it is crowded. They have inspected these, so the boxes will be removed.

    Court is in recess.

    Deliberations continue.

  162. J4TMinATL says:

    Morning! Healey at bench.

  163. Court is in session. The jury is not yet present.

  164. Good morning everyone! We would like to welcome and thank our visitors this morning from:



    United States
    United Kingdom

    Thank you for joining us this morning, much appreciated!

  165. crazy1946 says:

    Good morning…

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