Jury could be hung on Brunson count

Friday, February 14, 2014

Good evening:

Follow my reasoning here, because I think Crane and I have figured this out.

According to the note, the jury has reached verdicts on all but one count.

Because self-defense is a defense to all five counts, we believe they would have acquitted Dunn on all counts, if they bought his claim of self-defense.

For example, consider the fifth count, which is basically shooting a gun in a public place. It’s kind of a-canary-in-the-coal-mine instruction regarding self-defense because it’s the simplest charge to prove. If they hang on it, they disagree on self-defense and cannot convict on any count.

Therefore, we think they are arguing about something else.

We also don’t see them convicting on the attempt charges and hanging on the main count because the main count drives this verdict.

For example, his mental state and act were the same every time he fired the gun.

Convict on one, whether murder 1, murder 2, manslaughter or whatever, convict on all. Just insert the selected crime after the word attempt.

However, they could have convicted on the main charge and 2 of the 3 attempt charges, but hung as to Leeland Brunson (who was sitting in the back seat next to Jordan), because Dunn was shooting at Jordan intending to hit Jordan. Not sure he even knew Brunson was in the back seat.

The doctrine of transferred intent removes any difficulty in convicting Dunn for the Brunson shooting, but I don’t know if they gave that instruction.

Transferred Intent:

Assume A intends to shoot B, but not C.

Assume A shoots and misses B, killing C.

Q: Can A be convicted of intending to shoot C?

A: Yes, because his intent transfers to the person he shot.

However, murder 2 and manslaughter do not require proof of intent to kill or premeditation. That is why they are easier to prove

We do not see them disagreeing on any of the attempt charges unless they have found that Dunn acted with premeditation. Without an instruction on transferred intent, they might disagree on Brunson.

There you have it.

The jury will resume deliberations at 9 am EDT tomorrow.


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111 Responses to Jury could be hung on Brunson count

  1. Sophia33 says:

    It took a jury 7 days to get Scott Peterson guilty.

  2. Malisha says:

    A friend of mine (Black) has an ex-husband (white) whose ancestors owned slaves and he eagerly showed her the Last Will and Testament of one of his great-great-grandfathers who left two slaves to his daughter. Anyway, this guy is hostile and perpetually trying to buck up his flagging manhood (looks creepy, has ED, is addicted to half a dozen controlled substances he buys in Mexico and drinks a lot) so he’s violent and hostile. Once when I was speaking with him, he told me that when he was in high school, Black kids were always beating him up. He is obsessed with the idea that Black kids were “always” beating him up and he wants to show that Black kids can’t “beat him up” any more. He abused his wife and then filed for divorce when he had gotten all her money into his accounts and pulled the lease on the marital home out from under her, throwing her on the street with three days’ notice, and then refused to let her get the keys to the storage area. He has brought up his now teen-aged son to be the same way and the kid keeps getting in trouble at school for fighting. So she just said to me, “If Dunn gets off, I bet [ex] and [his troubled, antisocial son] will move to Florida so they can kill people.”

    I think that’s what is appearing out of the mist: The Florida haven for angry, dissatisfied, impotent white men who want the ultimate power trip of murdering a symbol of their weakness (young, vital, promising African American kids) and getting away with it.

  3. Malisha says:

    The McNeil case was a very clear-cut, almost unequivocal case of self-defense. There is no excuse for the DOJ not having investigated the prosecutor for having unconstitutionally charged and imprisoned that man! See what a DOJ we have? We have a DOI.

  4. Trisha0620 says:

    if this jury cant this case right, its sending a clear message that if you are not white then you need to get the heck out of Florida. which makes me sick.

  5. CherokeeNative says:

    Professor, sorry to keep harping on this – but just how far can a Judge go to “unhang” a jury?

    I don’t understand why, if it becomes apparent that a jury is hung on a matter of law that could be resolved by an additional instruction, the Judge would not be able to provide one.

    You state, “the doctrine of transferred intent removes any difficulty in convicting Dunn for the Brunson shooting, but I don’t know if they gave that instruction.” If this is indeed the issue, wouldn’t it seem cost effective to provide the instruction you speak of rather than retry the count, or worse, go through the appellate process only to be told to do it over because you failed to give this instruction?

  6. Boyd says:

    good morning. if that’s the hangup, they should consider that Dunn referred to all of them as “Thugs” hence he intended to shoot at Brunson.

    • Patdeadder says:

      He was trying to kill them all since he was afraid they’d pass the gun around.

    • Malisha says:

      Yet by his own testimony, both to the police and in court, ONE of them was NOT a thug because when he first asked them to turn down the thug music, ONE OF THEM TURNED IT OFF. Proving: (a) the non-thug respected FoDung; and (b) the non-thug was not trying to kill FoDung.

      • Trisha0620 says:

        my problem with the turning down the music is this.
        Dunn had no legal right to ask them to do anything, he isn’t their parents or the law, or even the owner of the darn store, and I don’t believe this is the first time he has pushed his will on someone, but I think it might be the first time someone stood up to his demands, and he flipped.

        • Rachael says:

          Sorry, but I disagree. Why doesn’t he have the right to tell them to turn the music down? He has every right to do that if he wants to. And they have every right not to comply. However, he has NO right to shoot them because they didn’t or because they mouthed off to him. But certainly he has every right to tell ask them to turn it down.

    • Olivia says:

      Yes, Boyd, and he claims to have politely asked “the people” in the car to turn the music down.

      He politely asked that while remaining seated in his small car, below the ear level of the occupants of a car who were listening to music so loud the body panels of their vehicle were rattling?

      Really? Bwa, ha, ha. No way.

  7. Patdeadder says:

    I watched Nancy Grace and they said he had a silencer in his car and an illegal weapon in his trunk.
    This man is a danger if he gets acquitted.
    If I was Rhonda I would be very afraid to leave or stay.

    • Boyd says:

      silencer is legal, it was a modified unoperable one. Silencers a re legal in over 30 states, that’s what I learned about this case.

      I never thought we all had the ability to be a movie style hitman.

  8. For your consideration:
    Drew Peterson-14 hours
    Sandusky-20 hours
    Scott Peterson–7 days
    Menendez Brothers–4 days
    All guilty verdicts

    • Liza says:

      Charles Manson – 8 Days
      Shawna Forde (border vigilante murderer) – 7 hours over 2 Days

      Both guilty

      I looked a few up yesterday.

  9. Patdeadder says:

    So the construction guy said he heard dunn shout “your’ not talking to me that way” then he started shooting am I wrong.
    So dunn could not have been too afraid.

    • J4TMinATL says:

      He was in fear…was it reasonable is the question.

      • concernedczen says:

        He was not in fear at all. Dunn rolled down his window to continue the confrontation and then started shooting when Jordan mouthed off to him.

        His actions had NOTHING to do with fear.

        Later back at the hotel, no doubt he was afraid the police might come and arrest him.

        • Olivia says:

          Bass so loud that “. . . body panels on the SUV were rattling, my rear view mirror was shaking, my ear drums were vibrating” – so Dunn politely “asked” that it be turned down.

          . . . while remaining seated feet below ear levels of the SUV occupants.

          Politely asked them to turn it down? I don’t believe that happened. Screamed, perhaps. Says he wasn’t emotional (his attorney had him answer questions to establish that he (Dunn) was in a mellow mood).

          Did the boys who survived say that Dunn asked them to turn the volume down?

          If so, I don’t see how they would have heard him, unless he first exited his car and either tapped on the closed front passenger window or walked directly to the partially opened rear passenger side window.

          If he politely asked, while seated in his car, then who heard him ask except himself?

          • Olivia says:

            Eardrums rattling, but he’s not emotional? Not peeved? Not angry? Not enraged?

            Dang, my rattling eardrums have interrupted my daydream about what Rhonda and I are gonna do tomorrow.

            I’ll politely yell at them to turn the volume down.

            “Hey”! “HEY”!

            Dang, they can’t hear me. I’ll have to yell louder.




            Tomorrow, me and Rhonda, we’ll go . . .

            What? My eardrums are rattling again.

            Reaches over and opens glove box.

            Bounces back in seat.

            Reaches over, into glove box, and grabs gun . . .

            Not emotional. Not peeved. Not angry. Not enraged.

        • Olivia says:

          Regarding back at the hotel – –

          During his well-practiced testimony about “back at the hotel”, I notice his attorney led him through giving an impression to jurors that he and Rhonda were afraid the “thugs” might show up at the hotel.

          I.e. – – Rhonda stayed in the room, Dunn took the puppy out to poo only, close to the building. No walk for the puppy, just the necessary poo.

          Thugs might be out there . . .

          Looking out the window, collecting the pizza at the downstairs elevator – gotta be careful, the thugs might be there.

          Still didn’t call police, in spite of fear the thugs/thugs friends would show up at the hotel.

          Hmm . . .

      • Olivia says:

        He wasn’t in fear. He was in rage.

      • Olivia says:

        Maybe the prosecution should have shot down Dunn’s “I was in fear” lie by honing in on his admitted rage.

        His “How dare you defy me by turning the volume back up” rage.

  10. shyloh says:

    To me, shooting to keep their heads down, would be shooting up in the air towards them not blasting the back of the SUV! And he kept saying 4 were in the SUV. 4! So Leeland Brunson is included.

  11. anita says:

    This makes perfect sense. I cannot friggin believe this shit. Something is so fundamentally wrong here.why in the world would normal thinking people delve into a way for this murderer to go free. The jury instructions are meant to confuse . Please manana convict this big old coward bitch. His size alone has allowed him to fuck with anyone and everyone all his life. It has to be over. Thank you all happy valentines day.

  12. Prof, I hear you. But having served on a jury before, it really ain’t that deep. IMO, it boils down to…other than taking the testimony of the defendant (urgh, gag me with a spoon) was he remotely in fear of his life? He said he was in fear.

    But SYG in FL has two primary implications, one procedurally, one substantive. Anytime some person barks “self-defense” in Florida, it always implies “stand your ground” because of Jury Instructions. Blurgh!

    • I too think your theory is smart, Professor and Crane, but too smart for this jury (except for the ones that want to convict on M1 or M2 – I believe they have the smarts to think about Dunn not knowing about the boy beside Jordan).

      I think what’s happening is far more simple – KISS – they have holdouts who don’t want to hold Dunn responsible for M1 or M2 for Jordan because they’re holding to the letter of the law that allows Dunn to BELIEVE he was in danger, even if he’s lying and or exaggerating about the verbal exchange between him and Jordan.

      I believe the odds are very good that there are jury members who would like to completely absolve Dunn of any responsibility for Jordan’s death, but even so, they MUST admit that the shots fired after the teens pulled away did not constitute self-defense and this is why they first asked for the Gate video.

      They agree on the lesser charges but are arguing about the big one. Which is a big kick in the gut to Jordan’s parents and to reasonable people of any color in the F-state, the rest of the nation, and the entire frickin’ world.

      Not only that, some of these jury members that want to let Dunn walk for the murder of Jordan Davis are also out to get Corey at any cost and will hang the jury for that reason alone.

      I pray that these hold-outs will come to their senses tomorrow. Praypraypraypraypraypraypraypraypraypraypraypraypraypray.

    • Boyd says:

      Jury instructions!, I believe none of the Jurors could pass a multiple choice test on the Jury instructions without looking at the answers. Blurgh!

  13. ay2z says:

    Oh, in the call now he’s saying stuff like he’s the victim, like in the old days when a girl got raped, sherriff blamed victim. This call is another public consumption propaganda conversation. They learned something from the other big media murder cases and that’s exactly what they are trying to put out there.

    Why talk to each other about this, unless there’s a point to make it public.

    • ay2z says:

      He calls his other victims, ‘those two BOYS’.

    • YQ says:

      Yeah, seems like they tried to learn a thing or two from the GZ trial. The phones in jails are always tapped and this is public knowledge now. It’s play on people’s psyches. “Perhaps the truth comes out when no one is around…” however it’s more like more lies under the judgement that the calls were going to go public anyway.

  14. Liza says:

    I think it is time acknowledge that race is a factor here, obviously the determining factor. There is no way that intelligent, fairminded, courageous jurists would reject the physical evidence corroborated by the testimoney of neutral bystanders. Keep in mind that if they believe Dunn, who is a murdering liar trying to trying stay out of prison, then they do not believe the three black teenagers. Racism is the elephant in that room, bet the farm on it and you won’t lose.

    We don’t know the split, of course. But I would bet that fewer are holding out for justice, not the other way around. I have faith in the two black women and if they are the only ones holding out for Jordan, then I pray that they remain strong. I am hoping there are more than two on Jordan’s side.

    We are all just guessing, of course. But be prepared, that’s all I’m saying. The kind of white folks who live Sanford are not so different from those who live in Jacksonville.

    • Liza says:

      Sorry for all the type-o’s.

    • concernedczen says:

      I agree. At least the 2 black women have each other and are not alone like Mattie. However, alone or not, if I were in Mattie’s position, I would have never acquitted in the Trayvon case.

      I suspect there might be a few white people and that Asian woman also fighting for a conviction.

      Remember there were 2 white women who wanted to convict in Trayvon’s case also.

      But yes, this is about race

  15. YQ says:

    Happy Valentine’s Day to all!!! Just got off from work and thought this Dunn guy would be locked up by now. Guess my expectations were too high. LOL. As I read the post from Professor, I kinda had the same feeling. They seem to be hung on the lessers, maybe attempted murder on Brunson. But M1 or M2 is locked in and Dunn is toast. He has to atone for the killing of Davis.

    What’s funny is that there are stark similarities between the Zimmerman Trial and this one. What’s different though is that Dunn didn’t contact the local authorities prior to or after the shooting at any point. It looks like murder, it walks like a duck, and so shall it be. Don’t hang your heads!! Be proud that you are on the side of good, that you can share the stories of your crusades to the next generation, and inspire them to change the game. =)

  16. Malisha says:

    Think a Black man about 50, twice divorced, distant from his son, goes to a wedding with his girlfriend. On the way home he shoots up a car full of white teen-agers for listening to their music too loud. He claims one of the kids scared him and he was “shitting bricks.” Drives away and orders pizza, then gets caught because someone got his license plate #. Girlfriend cries the whole time she testifies. He keeps emphasizing he had to get back to the hotel because of his dog. For the defense he gets someone to say he was “peaceful” and he’s a nice guy, in a flying club with them.

    How long does it take a jury to convict him of murder?

    • YQ says:

      LOL very funny. Result: show trial to appease the masses of blacks who rally in protest. The black man, about 50 and twice divorced, would be sentenced to life imprisonment. Due to verdict given by a majority white jury, who found him guilty on all counts. The girlfriend would also get slammed with a 5-10 for accessory to murder and not notifying authorities. Gov. Rick Scott would get relelected for another term, and the current SYG laws would stay in place…

      “…and a partridge in a pear tree….”

  17. ay2z says:

    A thought, from the commentary of Director Sidney Lumet as he watched his film ‘The Verdict’, starring Paul Newman. Joe Seneca plays the elderly Dr. Thompson, an expert witness for the Newman’s character, lawyer defense.

    (Lumet directed also, ’12 Angry Men’)

    The scene is outside the courtroom after a failed attempt to challenge the hospital doctors with his own expert witness, the kindly Dr. Thompson talks to the ill and dejected Galvin the resourceless lawyer for the young woman left in a vegetative state by her hospital doctors mistakes. The powerful archdiocese that runs the Boston hospital, has engaged a top law firm to win at all costs and to keep the hospital’s reputation intact.

    Thompson “I didn’t do so well for you”

    Galvin “Oh no, you did fine.”

    Thompson “Naw…. I’m afraid that’s not true. Will you want me to stay on ’til Monday?”

    Galvin “No. Ahh… thank you. You can go on home.”

    Thompson “You know, Mr. Galvin, sometimes people can surprise you. Sometimes they have a great capacity to hear the truth.”

    Sidney Lumet adds commentary about this scene, how it prepares us for what is about to happen, and adds his personal thoughts on the justice system.

    “…The whole process… I think one of the reasons that I love pictures about the justice system, and I’ve done so many of them and now One Hundred Center Street is about that entirely, is that it is endlessly interesting to me how, somehow or other, the truth is discerned by juries.

    I don’t know how many of you have served on juries, I never try to get out of it, I love doing jury duty. and I’m always stunned at the faith with which people act. It’s as if the best of them comes out when you are in that room and debating stuff… I have just seen it so often.”

    • Malisha says:

      Mmm. That’s based on what HE saw so often.
      What we’ve seen so often, however … different story.

      • ay2z says:

        Yes, I didn’t include the part about yes, jurors will argue amongst themselves when theings get personal, but in the end, the best comes out so often.

  18. neveragain says:

    He was intending to kill Jordan….when he got out of his vehicle to shoot he claim he was protecting his girlfreind from bullets that could come as a result of them fireing back so he was shooting to Jeep THEM DOWN so they would not get an opportunity to gire back…..and y should anyone believe his lies he is makibg up to get himself out of trouble…….he obviosly thought they were all armed…..he even thought that a mext vehicle of thugs would show up to get him………

  19. Tee says:

    I dont think that they are hung on him walking, I think that they are hung on the lessers. I’m thinking some want manslaughter and others want murder 2. In my way of thinking, they decided on 3 counts of attempted murder and the shooting into the car, therefore he has to be guilty of a crime against Jordan they just can’t agree on which one.

    • Tee says:

      At least I hope that’s what’s going on, or the professor version, anythng but walking.

      • concernedczen says:

        I hope so too but I am afraid that racism is a lot more prevalent and deeply held than many of us would like to believe.

        I think there is at least 1 or more who refuse to convict him on any murder charge related to Jordan because Jordan mouthed off.

        • Malisha says:

          Right. Possible. A person cannot be murdered if he is not, according to his killer, perfect. But why doesn’t that work for women who kill their husbands?

  20. Dave Hoff says:

    Sorry, but I think they bought the self-defense, which means they’ve agreed that he is not guilty on the four most serious counts, or in other words agreed on their verdicts in 1) the murder of Davis and 2), 3), and 4), the attempted murders of each of the other young men in the SUV. However, I would also like to believe that there must have been at least one or two who wanted to convict him of something, but were ganged up on or persuaded until they agreed with the majority. These one or two jurors who were persuaded against their better judgment to go along with this majority are now holding out to convict him of at least the fifth count, the least serious charge: firing the weapon at the car (or in a public place, whatever it is). They’re fighting to hang this jury so that he might be convicted of something later, as they’re dealing with a majority who want him to walk away completely free. I don’t hear any talking head speculating that this might be what happened, but it seems like the simplest (and, yes, most simple-minded) interpretation of a jury that believes guys like Dunn and Zimmerman and assumes that because these teenagers were black they must have had a gun.

    • Malisha says:

      Or, even if they didn’t have a gun, it was a middle-aged rich white guy’s right to kill one of them to correct their bad violent “culture.”

      • Malisha says:

        Remember the letter from jail: these people are from the wrong “culture” and if people would just kill a few of them they might get the idea and correct their behavior. Right? He was doing a “culture revisory killing.” Socially laudable. Right? It’ll teach thugs (a) not to play their thug music too loud; and (b) not to talk back to white guys.

    • concernedczen says:

      I have a hard time believing the 2 black women and 1 Asian woman are going to vote to acquit him of any charges.

      • I had a hard time believing 5 white women and a black hispanic woman would let Fogen walk.

        • concernedczen says:

          once we met Mattie…I didn’t have such a hard time believing it.

          Definitely didn’t have a hard time believing it about the 5 white women as we heard their voir dire and lots of them were obvious racists

      • Patdeadder says:

        Concerned has a hard time believing 2 black and 1 Asian are voting to aquit.
        Maybe that’s why they were holding their heads down in the court room.

        • concernedczen says:

          I’ll be very shocked if there is an acquittal. It’s not one woman fighting against 5 people in that room. There should be at least 3-4 people who are not blinded by racism in there and that should be enough to not allow themselves to be bullied.

  21. There is no legal requirement that the verdict make sense to us or that it be internally consistent.

  22. J4TMinATL says:

    News4Jax released new discovery today. It’s not letting me post the link.

    They are the phone calls he made to Rhonda.

  23. colin black says:

    Ive seen it in rapid succession in Florida with CAYLEES murdering egg doner walk free an the.
    I got away with It smirk appears.
    Fogagge the same a big ole shit eating grin.

    An I fully expect dunn to be wearing another one.

    The best I can forsee at this juncture is a hung jury an if so the entire Country of America needs to Hang its Head In shame .

    An get this monsterous lieing p o s off the streets.

    If he walks free theres no closed season ever for AA In Florida its open all year 24 ..7

    Just say you felt threatened or they gave you a mean look

  24. Dennis says:

    Could they be deadlocked on self-defense for the first shots but agree that the last volley did not constitute self-defense and thus convict him of the 4 lessers?

    I also ask the following: Is it the case that a juror is charged with finding for the highest count that is proven beyond a reasonable doubt and no lower so that lowering your vote from 1st degree to 2nd for the sake of attaining a verdict due to a deadlock is, strictly speaking, not allowed?


    • Could be.

      They cannot consider a lesser charge on a count, unless they cannot reach a verdict on the most serious charge. Similarly, they cannot consider the third charge down unless unless they cannot reach a verdict on the second charge down.

      • Dennis says:

        Thanks so much for replying. I do think that it’s more likely that they’re hung on a degree of murder (this case seemed like an easy one) but we’ll see.

    • bettykath says:

      And all the charges on the first count are moot if they think he fired in self-defense.

  25. colin black says:



    If it were over the matter of an attempt murder or not on the back seat passenger.

    But guilty on the rest an assured prison time for dunn.
    Then they would’ve compromised an got it over an done with.

    To continue this over into the weekend I think the one or two hold outs for a conviction have bent as much as they can .

    To try and force some kind of justice but the biggots want all or nothing as per.

  26. ChrisNY~Laurie says:

    Does anybody have a link to the jury instructions? I googled, but didn’t see any. Thanks

    • J4TMinATL says:

      They haven’t been made public.

      • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

        Oh thanks J4TMinATL. That would be why I couldn’t find them. I haven’t really followed this case much until now.

        Professor- If the jury doesn’t agree on first degree murder because they don’t think it was premeditated, do they have lesser charges they can choose, such as 2nd degree murder or manslaughter? And can they pick one of the lesser charges and still choose guilty on the 3 counts of attempted murder and the firing into a vehicle?

          • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

            Thank you. So, that is why you think that they must be hung up on the attempted murder charge and not the first count. But I just hope they aren’t stupid like the Casey Anthony jurors. Those jurors thought that there wasn’t enough evidence to take her life and never even considered the lesser charges that they could have and should have found her guilty on.

            That is why I feel the instructions need to be carefully read and explained to the jurors, some people just don’t understand them and when they’re sequestered and tired they just want to go home so they don’t ask questions.

  27. J4TMinATL says:

    Why would they get frustrated and tense over one attempt charge? Doesn’t make sense.

  28. fauxmccoy says:

    interesting concept. i dare not even venture to guess.

    i am still optimistic for a conviction. if these folks were even remotely close to believing self defense, we’d have known a while ago.

  29. racerrodig says:

    “However, they could have convicted on the main charge and 2 of the 3 attempt charges, but hung as to Leeland Brunson (who was sitting in the back seat next to Jordan), because Dunn was shooting at Jordan intending to hit Jordan. Not sure he even knew Brunson was in the back seat”

    To me, and that’s the way I think, wouldn’t this be rendered moot once he fired at the retreating SUV ??

    Almost like going into a darkened movie theater and shooting blindly into the crowd. The shooter would be charged with so many counts of attempted murder = to the number of occupants that survive.

    Of course this if FL and nothing seems to make sense.

    BUT……..he stated in everything he’s said he knew there were 4 KIDS in the Dodge. He referenced “…another car full of thugs coming back…”

    I fully understand what you’re saying but He said 4 kids and we “joked” about him inferring they pass the gun around and take turns. In my opinion, just because he never said “…that kid in the back seat behind the driver…” doesn’t give the jury leeway to hang on that.

    He stated in one of his police interviews “…it 4 against 1…” in fact.

    Damn !! Just like Fogen the number of lies is overwhelming……….

    ……..if he’d have just gotten that address………he wouldn’t be in this mess……if ya know what I mean.

  30. Excellent explanation. I hope you are right.

  31. J4TMinATL says:

    Sunday is Jordan’s birthday. Let’s hope they don’t render a verdict on Sunday.

  32. J4TMinATL says:

    What if they haven’t agreed on whether it’s self defense yet?

    Some are for murder and some are for justifiable homicide?

  33. concernedczen says:

    I don’t agree. I think they are hung on the first, possibly all of the charges, but I hope you are right,

  34. CherokeeNative says:

    Happy Valentines Professor & Crane. This a remedial issue is it not? I mean, can the Judge inquire as to which Count they are hung on and then have the prosecution & defense prepare a rectifying jury instruction? Or am I all wet in this thinking?

  35. Malisha says:

    Very interesting.
    Hmmm. If he could see the imaginary gun, though, he should have been able to see the real kid. But what you say makes perfect sense. It has the virtue of working within logic.

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