Open Thread

Thursday, January 23, 2014

Good afternoon:

I have replaced my dead computer and I’m back up and running.

Not much happening today that has not already been mentioned in the comments.

Big day tomorrow.

Angela Corey’s office must release the audio recordings of Michael Dunn’s 740 or so phone calls from jail by tomorrow at the close of business.

There will be a hearing in Erick Munoz’s lawsuit against the hospital seeking an order to disconnect his dead pregnant wife from a ventilator with the fetus in some serious difficulty.

Fauxmccoy posted this comment quoting his attorney and a link, which I have embedded.

“According to the medical records we have been provided, the fetus is distinctly abnormal,” the attorneys said. “Even at this early stage, the lower extremities are deformed to the extent that the gender cannot be determined.”

The attorneys said the fetus also has fluid building up inside the skull and possibly has a heart problem.

“Quite sadly, this information is not surprising due to the fact that the fetus, after being deprived of oxygen for an indeterminate length of time, is gestating within a dead and deteriorating body, as a horrified family looks on in absolute anguish, distress and sadness,” the attorneys said.

Meanwhile, Zimmerman’s fledgling career as a paint-by-numbers copycat continues.

The pool is open.

72 Responses to Open Thread

  1. MDH says:

    A song very pertinent to what we discuss here:

  2. MDH says:

    Its Friday and time for some music. One of the elements of a great vocal talent is how his or her voice sounds. To me, Jacob Miller has a quality that brings a smile to my face. A true ray of sunshine.

    One has to be good to try to cover this:

  3. Amanda Guerra ‏@AmandaNBC5 4m
    Lawyers forJPS argue Munoz has not officially been declared “dead” from hospital. #munoztrial @NBCDFW

    Amanda Guerra ‏@AmandaNBC5 6m
    Lawyers argue tx law states drs cannot remove ‘life sustaining treatment’ from pregnant woman, but doesn’t apply here bc Munoz already dead.

  4. Jobin Panicker ‏@jobinpnews 4m
    Tarrant DA walked in. #MarliseMunoz

    Jobin Panicker ‏@jobinpnews 5m
    Attorneys, Machado, and Munoz families exchanging long hugs. #MarliseMunoz

    Jobin Panicker ‏@jobinpnews 8m
    Erick Munoz and her parents sitting behind the attorneys. Eyes welling up. #MarliseMunoz

    Bud Kennedy ‏@BudKennedy 8m
    Update: @JPS_Health says #MarliseMunoz’s fetus is not viable. Now in court. @PastorBroden and pro-life activists on hand. Follow @TSMadigan

    Ryan Wood ‏@RyanWoodDFW 11m
    Judge presiding over #MarliseMunoz hearing requiring all cell phones to be turned off. @JobinPNews will update us after hearing.

    • Quoting from that link:

      “(CNN) — For the first time, John Peter Smith Hospital acknowledges that Marlise Munoz, who is being kept on a respirator under Texas law, has been brain dead since November 28 and that the “fetus gestating inside Mrs. Munoz is not viable,” according to court documents released before a Friday hearing.”

  5. fauxmccoy says:

    for you, miz crane station 🙂

  6. The hearing in the Munoz case against the hospital to disconnect his dead wife from a ventilator will be this afternoon.

    I believe KSLA-TV will be covering the hearing live stream.

    Not sure of the time.

  7. Malisha says:

    Reading this article —

    What jumped out at me was the writer’s assumption (completely unsupported by any evidentiary facts available) that what Fogen did was pursue and then confront Trayvon Martin UNTIL — “until” — Trayvon Martin lashed out at him, thereafter killing the victim.

    It sounds like the assumption is that Fogen really wouldn’t have shot Trayvon Martin if only the kid had kept begging for his life instead of throwing a punch (of which punch there was no evidence). It sounds like it was a bait-and-kill game instead of a racist murder.

    What our society has said to these criminals like Smith and Dunn (and Tom, Dick and Harry) is that so long as you can colorably claim that at some point in your bullying murderous attack, the victim tried to defend himself, you’re allowed to kill whomever you identify as the enemy.

    • MDH says:

      The law should be changed to this:

      If you have a gun, and move to engage another person, then that act, in and of itself, puts the other person in reasonable fear for their life.

      For example, if Murderman had got out of his car with a sword and approached Trayvon, there would be no question that Trayvon had reason to fear for his life and a right to self defense wherein force is met by equivalent force.

      The bait and kill { I refuse to call it stand your ground } crowd want to use the fact that their overwhelming lethal force is concealed as a way to draw out an act from their victim that they can use to justify force.

      A person in a potential conflict situation should have the right to know what they are facing. IMO, a person with a concealed weapon who moves to engage another MUST tell that other person that they are armed.

      The only testimony we have that Trayvon could possibly have attacked George is one witness seeing him possibly on top during an extended tussle.

      These media figures are accepting the story told by George as fact.

      The 100% certain facts are:

      George moved closer to Trayvon with a gun

      There was a struggle

      George shot Trayvon

      If the law was changed or interpreted as I state above, then Trayvon had a right to struggle, thus eliminating George’s self defense claim.

      I find it very disturbing that so-called media intellectuals who deem themselves progressive fail to see how the result of that trial has enabled baiting and killing.

      • racerrodig says:

        In all reality, the Bait & Kill law does specify that you cannot provoke the incident then claim it was the other parties fault. FogenPhoole admitted he did such a thing during his call to the police. Even Taaffe and Papa Z stated “….that’s when he confronted Trayvon…”

        Not only that the law is very clear in that Fogen had to exhaust every avenue of escape before he used any force.

        It’s not just the law that sucks, but the abuse of it.

        I agree with you that it is 100% unfair that one can carry a hidden weapon and in any way, shape or form create a situation like this one.

      • Malisha says:

        Even without any change in the law, Trayvon had the legal right to “struggle,” but actually, he had a right to use lethal force to stand his ground.

        The fact is the law is just words. What’s being enforced is NOT law, but white privilege. To a murderous degree.

        • MDH says:

          Sadly, I agree.

          If Trayvon and been a 150lbs skinny white kid out for a walk in the casual attire universally favored by teens, then the media would have waxed poetic about how he put up a valiant fight against the larger, paranoid creep with a gun.

          The total refusal of the whitestream media to consider the fear that Trayvon was under speaks loudly and clearly.

          Apparently, in their Wonderbread world, a black teen of 150lbs is a lethal fighting machine who has no fear in the world of any other male of any size, unless that male is also black.

          I have completely lost respect for a lot of white people I know as a result of this trial.

          I come from kind of a macho blue collar culture and, if one can not easily see Zimmerman for the grafter, coward that he is, then they have issues they need to resolve.

          Men are supposed to mentor and protect boys, not abuse and shoot them.

          All that coward needed to do was call out to Trayvon and strike up a conversation.

        • racerrodig says:

          In a word Exactly

    • gblock says:

      Malisha – True, but this is still much better (and far more likely) than the standard Zidiot version which claims that poor Georgie was just walking back to his truck when the evil thug Trayvon raced back up to the T to knock him down and pound his head into the pavement.

  8. dianetrotter says:

    What happens when a person violates parole? We have attempted to get my sister arrested for a week for parole violations. Her parole officer says he can’t do anything about it. She already killed someone. She was realized on parole with a provision that she see a psychiatrist and take medication as needed. She is living in our condemned home where she killed some. The temperature is 20 degrees at night. When she kills someone else, who is responsible? I petitioned for guardianship so we can get her institutionalized to get medication.

    • Malisha says:

      I don’t mean to make light of your sister’s situation, but it does show that the police are not doing what they should — too busy arresting geriatric jaywalkers.

    • I recommend you consult with a lawyer about the guardianship and institutionalization issues because it’s virtually impossible to confine a person in a secure mental health facility for more than 72 hours. A person has to be diagnosed by a mental health professional (i.e., an intake screener in a hospital ER) to be a danger to herself or to others. If so, she will be admitted to the secure mental health ward in the hospital for a maximum period of 72 hours.

      Most patients respond well to medication and are released before the expiration of the 72 hour period.

      The small percentage of people who continue to be diagnosed as a danger to themselves or to others get a court hearing presided over by a judge who decides whether to release or detain them for 28 days. They also get a public defender.

      If the judge commits the person, review hearings are held at the end of each commitment period. The goal is to stabilize and release.

      Long term commitments are unusual.

      Doesn’t take long for a person to figure out that the key to release is to put on a happy face and deny suicide ideation or violent urges to hurt someone.

      Released to the street, it doesn’t take long before they stop taking their meds and before long the cycle repeats itself.

      Kelly Thomas was a schizophrenic caught up in this loop between involuntary commitments, homelessness and jail that inevitably ends in death.

      Such is the plight of the mentally ill in a nation with a government that no longer gives a damn about them.

      • Uninformed people blame parent and family neglect. They need to educate themselves – families can’t control mentally incompentent adults unless they agree to stay at home, etc. Many love to roam or can’t follow rules due to their illness, and families have exhausted resources or can’t cope. I have two relatives on the street who aren’t a danger to others, but no one can keep them at home and they get only marginal treatment for their conditions.

    • diane, I think parole violation issues are very much up to the officer’s discretion. The officer must first allege something. Then, the officer can arrest. Then it goes to court, and to the parole board. That is really all I remember, from the parole thing. I have seen people arrested for violations, but I really do not know all that much about it.

  9. Speaking of lawsuits, I haven’t heard anything about GZ’s lawsuit against NBC.

    I’ll bet it has been dormant since the trial, with the possible exception that O’Mara and the Philadelphia lawyer withdrew.

    It isn’t worth the paper it was printed on.

    • I just went looking around – there is a status conference with Judge Nelson in February –

      Detailed Information for Case 2012CA006178
      Case Number: 2012CA006178 Judge: DEBRA S. NELSON
      Date Filed: 12/06/2012 Case Type: OTHER-LIBEL/SLANDER
      Plantiffs: Defendants:




      • Thanks for linking to the docket.

        I reviewed the docket and noticed that the plaintiff’s lawyers haven’t done anything since they filed the complaint.

        Various lawyers have been admitted pro hac vice to represent the parties. This means they are not licensed to practice in Florida and have requested the court’s permission to represent their respective clients in this matter. Such requests are normally granted, if they are licensed in another state and a local lawyer admitted to the Florida bar is willing to sponsor them and oversee what they do.

        The status conference in this case probably was scheduled because GZ’s lawyers haven’t done anything to pursue the claim since the criminal case ended in an acquittal (the lawsuit was stayed while the criminal case was pending).

        To keep it alive they would have to file a motion for default. That would force the defense lawyers to file answers to the plaintiff’s complaint.

        If they do not move for an order of default, the court will dismiss the complaint.

        • Thanks! I wondered if this would be the case. Will take a lot of wind out of the sails of Fogen supporters who are getting awfykkt cocky what with all the (f)artwork and lack of prosecution for Fogen’s recent mess-ups.

    • I guess I have another post in moderation – or it’s just not showing on my screen, whatever. I posted a link to the Seminole County court docket – there’s a status hearing on the NBC case in early Feb. in Judge Nelson’s courtroom. THere was supposed to be one on 1/15 and it was cancelled.

  10. allisonkilkenny ‏@allisonkilkenny 7s
    16 Year Old’s Testicles Ruptured After #StopandFrisk
    View summary Reply Retweet Favorite More

    “A case of alleged police brutality has a West Philadelphia community rallying behind a 16-year-old straight-A student and prep basketball player who underwent emergency surgery to repair a ruptured testicle after a police stop on his way to a game.”

  11. Mike Huckabee’s sexist and bizarre, perverted comments about women:

  12. NYPD bloodied elderly man while arresting him for jaywalking

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