Hate and rage have no place in our hearts or in our blog

Friday, September 27, 2013

Good morning:

Hate and rage have no place in our hearts or in our blog.

No one is perfect and everyone makes mistakes.

Some of our mistakes are intentional and some are not.

Maybe Shellie Zimmerman is a sympathetic human being slowly emerging from a fog of abuse or maybe she is a grifter attempting to even up the score with a grifter husband who dumped her. Maybe she is a mixture of both. Regardless what we believe, the truth will be revealed as we watch from afar.

Shellie is at a crossroad in her life and we can only watch as she chooses what to do.

She is what she is and she will be whatever she decides to be.

Whatever choice she makes for whatever reason should have little or no impact on our lives.

Instead of shrieking at her, why not thank her for exposing something in us that we may need to own and decide to change?

Have we not been taught to believe in redemption, rebirth, tolerance, love and forgiveness?

Why not light a candle in your heart for her and offer a prayer that she makes the right choice?

Are there not far more important matters than Shellie Zimmerman’s life decisions going on in the world that have real life consequences to each of us?

For example, the United Nations Climate Change Report will be released today.

Think on this:

The Lord is spirit: and where the Lord’s spirit is, freedom is. The veils no longer cover our faces — we all behold the glory of the Lord and are transformed into his image from one level of glory to another; and this comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 3 :17-18

Peace be with you.


353 Responses to Hate and rage have no place in our hearts or in our blog

  1. smokeegyrl says:

    About Shellie Zimmerman. We all ranted our hated and rage on this lady when the trial started and I probably did also. I noticed all through out this the one thing we only heard about her is when she lied about the money and when she talked to GZ when he was in jail. We never heard about her really after all of that did we? It was all news media. We seen her in court every day but she left around noon everyday. Never smiled and always look straight ahead, never at her husband really. I think she was coerced by his attorneys to be there and by him. She feared him then. I knew something was up back when as I had said something to my friends on Facebook. I am an advocate for Domestic Violence. I had that funny gut feeling. Ever since I heard his past record, I said yes, this man has done something to Shellie.

    I also knew he lied about the night he shot Trayvon Martin about he was going to the store. It didn’t make sense to me. Something was not rational about that night. Not until Shellie came forward about her leaving him the night before. I said “there it is”! They got into a big argument and he probably hit her or pushed her around and she left him. He was already full of rage. He needed to take it on somebody and there was Trayvon Martin. Make sense to me now so I put a statement together below.

    I am going to put this out there and some of you are going to be angry with me for doing so. I’m an advocate for Domestic Violence/Abuse and Rape. ) I have said this once by putting my own personal business out there in the view of the public. I want you to read my words carefully and focus on them. I was BORN of Rape, Victim of Rape, Victim of Domestic Violence, and a SURVIVOR! I speak so I can help others understand or try to. So let’s talk about Shellie Zimmerman for a minute. Remember, we already knew her husband was manipulative from jump street; we knew he was a rapist and had controlling issues. These are the signs that I see in an abusive marriage. None of us knew what went on in their marriage. We all were giving by his defense team it was a loving marriage when it was the opposite as it is now coming out. They kept Shellie in line by using her fear and believe me I know that fear which kept me in my own marriage for 10 years as it did Susan Still who was came on Oprah Winfrey show a few years ago. If you have not gone through this you will not understand emotional or physical abuse. A man can easily brainwash a woman just like a kidnapper can brainwash their victim. You can call Shellie Z all the names you want, I had seen this from her actions from the very beginning by her non-conversations, by her facial expressions (she was never allowed to speak), and by her body language. I knew something was up about her, how she stared straight in front of her without any emotions even when GZ was acquitted she barely smiled even when she hugged family members. I said to myself watch. Something is going to happen. I was right. I even bet to this day she already has talked to DOJ. I even bet that GZ has threatened her on more then one occasion. So before you denounce her think twice. She may also be a victim in all of this. I know there was a time where I could not tell the police of the things that I knew because my children and family lives were in jeopardy and when you know this, you would do anything to protect their lives. Don’t say you don’t give a damn when you never experienced this type of a situation. Would you sacrifice yourself in an abusive relationship to keep your child or family safe from a madman? This is a question we all ask ourselves when we are put in a situation such as this. We don’t know the answer unless we are in the situation. I was in this situation and my answer was “YES” I had to plan my escape to make sure they were going to be safe even it took 10 years. At that time no laws were in place for Domestic Violence. The laws that are in place now still do not work because of the Gun Laws. George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin and got away with it. He would’ve also killed his wife and got away with it… that’s probably what he told her… since he feels he is invincible! We have to think before we say something about this woman! We need her testimony to put George Zimmerman away. DOJ is still investigating. We all know HE IS NOT INVINCIBLE and hopefully DOJ thinks so too!

    • fauxmccoy says:


      i have personal and professional experience in the field of DV and agree with all you have said.

      i wish i had more than just the two thumbs to give your post the ‘thumbs up’. … but that would make me all thumbs.

    • smokeegyrl says:

      Before you comment. Just think on those who did not plan to escape as I and others who planned those escapes who saved lives of their familes and then think of those who didn’t plan and lives who were lost… google.. “estranged husband kills” and you will see it all. I hope DOJ puts him away before he strikes again. I hope y’all won’t say Shellie deserves to dies or her parents. That is so wrong.

  2. smokeegyrl says:

    It’s been a a while since I been on this blog, I’m sorry I have been sick and had another death in my family. No not my brother as you know he has cancer. He still refuses chemo. I don’t know how long he has and he won’t tell us. He says that it is between him and God. My 17 year old 3rd generation cousin committed suicide. I don’t know what is going on with these kids. Here we defending the life of a 17 year old who’s life was taken by Zimmerman and then my little cousin does this. It’s been hard.

    Anyway I have two things. A friend of my friend Eugene Taylor has painted a portrait of Trayvon Martin and I want to share it with you.

  3. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    I think what we have here in comments about Shellie are viewpoints based upon the personal experience of our family of posters.

    I was saddened to learn of the spousal abuse experienced by many of you. I understand how such an experience guides your assessment of Shellie.

    Yet, it is so very IMPORTANT to give validity to the African American experience in our country when it comes to the racial hatred directed at them.

    Many Black posters using their own personal experience to assess Shellie come to a different conclusion that I personally feel should be RESPECTED.

    We must remember that the gz verdict ESPECIALLY affects them and their families.

    • @You all have thoughtful comments:

      Thank you thoughtful. You hit the nail right on the head. Our comments are based on our past experiences in life and what we have endured. Those women who post here who were past victims and survivors of spousal abuse, put themselves in her place and they see her as such. I empathize with them and I understand your feelings about Shellie being an abused wife, however, Shellie is grown and should be accepting responsibility for her actions now that she is free of that albatross around her neck named Fogen.She should be denouncing him and apologizing for the death of TM, but she remains silent and makes excuses for Fogen still.

      Those of us who are African American have an entirely different experience in this country and so we view this case from that experience and from what we endured. We African Americans who have children, especially our sons, fear for them and worry about them every day of thier lives. Trayvon could have been our son and we know that only too well. The verdict was a slap in the face once again to us, and it should us that nothing really has changed in this country. It showed us that black lives mean absolutely nothing in this country and so what if you shoot a black boy? All you have to do is lie and have your family and friends lie for you, and have a conspiracy going to protect you from prosecution, and you can get off.

      Do you understand why we are so angry, and why we hold Shellie just as responsible due to the fact that she laughed and joked about Fogen’s hoodie, hid money for him and tried to get Tracy bounced from the courtroom. Did she even think about the story that Fogen told? What kind of medical professional would she be, to believe his story of getting his head bashed against the ground a hald dozen times and not sustain one severe injury to his skull? She didn’t question this? Sorry but she is no innocent and she reminds me of the wives and the women of the KKK who lynched black men and stood there laughing, and yelling out racist epithets at the body and clapping at the spectacle of watching a black man hang while the men set the body on fire.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Bless you, Deborah, for speaking TRUTH to us.

        I hope your heartbreaking words will be received by the hearts of all readers.


        “In Memory of ALL the Trayvon Martins”

        Published on Aug 17, 2013 by William Robinson
        Justice for all. In memory of all the Trayvon Martins across the world.

  4. Tzar says:

    Hi I am Tzar and I carry hate and contempt in my heart.

    I do so because there are -and more importantly, there probably always will be- people and notions in this world that are the reason of why we can’t have nice things. I do so because because there people and notions in this world that we ought to fear and people and notions that we are to hold in disrespect. I do so because it defines the limits of what I find beautiful, what I love, what I find tolerable and insignificant.

    I respect my hate and I delight in my contempt because they are very small and sharply defined and because they make me me. Woe unto one who finds themselves in that little box, because it is hard to get in and equally hard to get out (bullies, child abusers and spreaders of hate and disorder are lifetime members).

    If I am at risk to be consumed, it is by my love and awe. If I am at risk to be obsessed it is through the task of diminishing yet always maintaining my hate.

    • neveragain says:

      wow I wish I could write like you……..I forgive easily… some individuals are more evil then others…..Shellie is no murderer….but we have to be honest in our opinion of her….I have dealt with people who are so rotten and they are not murderers either…..some people are so full of jealousy in their heart. The more you treat them well the more they pray for your downfall….

      shellie is a grown adult. She is not mentally handicapped… I understand how your environment may shape you as a person….may shape the way you think and behave but even insane people are held accountable for their actions when they commit a crime….they are assessed to determine whether they had control at the time/moment they committed the crime….

      I were married to gz… like I said I would try my best to believe my husband….but I would realize that some of the things he is saying just makes no sense…..I would grind him and grind him on the matter….

      I would ask questions like…so why didn’t you hit Trayvon with the flashlight when he punched you in the nose…..what did you do when Trayvon was bashing your head??…my questions would be never ending…….

      then she has the audacity to come on television and say that the jurors knew more about the evidence than she did…. I may not be smart shellie but I am not a 2 year old child….. I am not mentally retarded

      she should have just kept quiet…..

  5. groans says:

    Is there some weird alignment of the sun, moon, planets, and stars going on … or WHAT?!?

    This has been much ado over nothing.

    Lagging behind (as usual), I suppose I enjoyed the benefit of more detached reading, beyond the fray. But folks, please! Take a chill pill (or even a couple or few of them); make an honest reality assessment; and then everybody hold hands and sing Kumbaya!

    I didn’t notice any increase in expressions of hate, rage and/or “shrieking” here recently over what has been fairly typical on this blog over the past year and a half. The difference I see is that the subject has been Shellie, rather than CAC and his Zimmerklan. So, I would suggest that there’s not been so much a change in tone as there’s been a change in unanimity.

    Actually, recent “negative” comments about Shellie have been noticeably more evidence-based than many historical histrionics that have been sanctioned here over time. They also offered valid considerations, serving an important purpose of introducing balance and perspective into an otherwise group-think-inclined “discussion.” Personally, I found them constructive in that regard.

    But, obviously, they were a minority view – or at least they didn’t sit well with the majority view that counts. So, the minority view has now been decisively chilled; deemed unworthy of an enlightened blog such as this. (Hmmm. And who exactly do we think we’re kidding, besides ourselves?)

    Is there some weird alignment of the sun, moon, planets, and stars going on … or WHAT?!?

  6. Trained Observer says:

    Long, long one of my faves from decades ago. Only recently realized she and Steve Jobs were once-upon-a-time romantically linked. In fact, she performed at one of his memorials.

  7. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Show me the prison, show me the jail
Show me the prisoner, whose life has gone stale
And I’ll show you a young man

    With so many reasons why

    There but for fortune, go you or I.


Show me the alley, show me the train

    Show me the hobo, who sleeps out in the rain

    And I’ll show you a young man

    With so many reasons why

    There but for fortune,go you or I.

    Show me the whiskey, stains on the floor

    Show me the drunkard, as he stumbles out the door
And I’ll show you a young man 

    With so many reasons why

    There but for fortune, go you or I.


Show me the country, where the bombs had to fall
Show me the ruins of the buildings, once so tall
And I’ll show you a young land

    With so many reasons why

    There but for fortune go you and I.

  8. dianetrotter says:

    For people like me who read the BIble, “All things work together for the good of those who love the Lord and are called according to His purpose.” Romans 8:28

    If Shellie is/has been a racist, this should be an eye opener for her. It is, hopefully, an eye opener for the jurors. There’s a chance that some former racists are looking at themselves differently. Who knows … George could realize he is going straight to hell, ask for forgiveness, and change his life.

    When people ask for forgiveness, we are in a tough spot if we don’t want to forgive. We then look like the bad guys.

    • Judy75201 says:

      I have hope that many racists are now asking themselves why it was so easy for them to believe fogen’s absurd story, and why was it so easy to believe that Trayvon was a thug? Anyone who asks themselves that is on the right track to enlightenment.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Not only should we forgive a racist who repents and changes his ways, we should rejoice that there is one less racist in America!

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        On a topic other than the forgiveness topic:

        As far a murder, I just wish that gz would confess and serve the prison time that is due him.

    • @dianetrotter:

      The ones who need to repent and ask for, forgiveness, are those complicit in this conspiracy because none of us went out, and shot a crying boy who was begging for his life in the heart and lied about it. We know, Fogen, the murderer who is a socio-path, will never ask or acknowledge that he is a liar and a murderer and neither will his evil, lying family or friends. These people are amoral and not deerving of any forgiveness from me. I am not the one they need to be worried about, and I certainly an not the bad guy if I chose not to forgive. They need to look to God for that.God and God alone, holds the power, not me.

  9. Rob_UK says:

    How could Shellie believe that a kid walking home with candy and a soft drink would suddenly attack her husband for no reason, beat him to within an inch of his life and then attempt to shoot him with his own gun? How could she have no doubts about such a ludicrous story? How could she not doubt his story considering she “treated” his insignificant injuries and saw them close up?

    Shellie Zimmerman has internet access. If she’s really beginning to have doubts about her husband’s innocence and wants to know the truth, she will start to research the case in depth. She can look at the evidence and read the sites that document the many discrepancies in her husband’s account and how the evidence contradicts his story. Eventually her research would bring her to this site.

    If she does this, she will eventually have to conclude that her husband is a cynical, sadistic, lying murderer. If she does ever come to this realization and has any decency in her at all, she will go on national TV and tell the world that she now realizes her husband got away with murder, tell them why and sincerely apologize to Trayvon’s family for supporting the killer and for her deplorable conduct.

    • neveragain says:

      See what I mean…some people can’t stop….why make such a comment?..just a period…..and who is NT acceptinng others opinion now?

      • Rachael says:

        the period is there because I wanted to read comments on my phone but when a thread gets this long I can’t get to the bottom. however if I post at the top, it prints it at the bottom and takes me right to my post at the bottom so I can read the latest comments that I can’t scroll down to otherwise. man. that was a rotten uninformed and downright nasty accusation. but it shows who you are. thanks.

        • neveragain says:

          Well I use my phone and it takes me right to the bottom to..but with just 300 comments I’m able to scroll down and I have a very cheap phone, it cant even open most yahoo articles…..so with my experience with phones………..

        • Trained Observer says:

          It certainly does, Rachael.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            yes, it does. i’ve somehow not seen ‘neveragain’s comments before today, if i am wrong, i’ll be happily corrected. it does strike me that someone is itching to start trouble though and is best to be ignored.

          • Trained Observer says:

            Nor have I, faux.

            Frankly, this type of low-brow blather is at first distasteful, but eventually just a silly bore. What strikes you also strikes me.

  10. Judy75201 says:

    Faux has always been reasonable and well-thought-out in every single post she has made. If she wishes not to be stalked on a thread and expresses that wish, it needs to be respected. Faux has never had anyone banned; Fred alone is the arbiter in deciding if someone has crossed the line one too many times.

    Shellie is not the murderer. GZ is. If Shellie is hounded into hiding by a pack of rabid, blood-thirsty dogs, we may never have the satisfaction of hearing the truth from her. Don’t add insult to the horrifying death of Trayvon.

    • neveragain says:

      Huh?…rabid thirsty dogs???…now u are sounding like my freind and gz…….people are just stating their opinion of her…stop twisting things….you know your ra id thirsty dog comment does not apply to these commenters on this site…..you sound no different from the gz supporters who say that gz was being vicously beaten and had to defend himself

  11. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Professor, I am willing to be BANNED for what I am about to do (which is to bring forward good comments under the article you posted before this one and AGREE with them.

    I agree with the following comments from that article. I see no hate, just reality back up by evidence:

    Mary Davis says:
    I’ve said it once, I’ll say it again. If we believe SheLie, we might as well believe fogen. Why not?.
    IMHO she is just as guilty as fogen. Neither one gets any sympathy from me.

    MichelleO says:
    I DON’T believe Shellie is emerging from a trance: She knew all along what type of beast her husband and his family were. I’ve lived in Florida, and am quite acquainted with people like Fogan’s family and the women they date. She is just like him. She believes as he believes, and assisted him in harassing people where they lived. She assisted in harassing Trayvon’s family in court by creating that bogus story of Tracy Martin directing a profanity laced statement to her “friend.”
    She is trying to clean up her image, now that she is furious with Fogan. He left her holding the bag—but then again that is his modus operandi—-the thing that she was most attracted to him about.

    jm says:
    Agree Michelle. The only thing she is emerging from is the fact that an obese murderer dumped her. She continues to lie.
    Deborah from NYC says:
    I totally agree MichelleO Her eyes have been wide open somce Day 1! She knew the type of family that she married into, and she also kneww the type of man that she married because she is just like him! When she accused Tracy of directing a profanity laced statement to her “friend” I knew she was an evil witch just like Fogen’s mother!
    She sat there and watched Fogen’s friendship with a racist, Frank Taffe and did not say one thing about it! She never denounced anything that he said in the press, nor did she ever show any regard to the Martin/Fulton family for the death of their son at the hands of her monster lunatic husband! I do not trust her or her motives and I don’t care if she is wavering or not! I will save my empathy for the women who suffered REAL ABUSE who post on this board, and did not support a murdering, racist spouse!

    God is there says:
    @MichelleO: You are “right on Michelle” Shellie did know the kind of monster George is, that’s why she wasn’t at home the night of the murder; they had a fight, so I’m not believing any of her mess. She says she’s not sure what her husband is capable of, but at the same time, she believes that he did not profile Trayvon – What? And if it had been a white kid, the same thing would have happened. Really? I don’t believe her and won’t believe her until she comes completely clean about what she knows of the murder her husband committed. The only compassion I have is for Tracy and Sybrina.

    jm says:
    “Time will tell if she’s only cleaning up her image or if she’s discovering a whole new reality.”
    The whole new reality is she is a liar and stood by a murdering liar hoping for the “good life” living off contributions from those who thought GZ was a hero for murdering a black teen and ShelLIE got dumped by the obese murderer. That is her reality.

    Sophia33 says:
    She knew what he was all along.

    Two sides to a story says:

    I think it’s possible that Shellie suppressed a lot of unpleasant things in order to make peace with herself and maintain the relationship. That has a way of having to come out somewhere, sometime. We might be seeing a sincere person now, or like the skeptics here say, she might just be another player. We’ll have to see it all play out.

    God is there says:
    @Michelle: Totally agree with your assessment. She may have been young and obviously dumb, but nevertheless, a willing participant and knowledgeable of Georgie’s temperament and mental problems. Now that the tables have turned on her, she wants everyone to feel sorry for her and believe that she was just innocently standing by her man. WHATEVER!

    Shari says:
    I have no sympathy for this woman who laughed and plotted and profited off the murder of a child.

    God is there says:
    @Michelle: Exactly! ‘When this is over, you’re going to have a great life.’ I believe these were the words she used in one of those jail house calls, not knowing that he really wasn’t going to include her. She came a dime a dozen. Now SHE knows the truth. He’s a manipulator, a liar, a racist, a piss-poor excuse of a man, and a child-murderer. Now all that’s left is for her to come clean about the whole thing. And I’m really hoping she does the right thing; but I won’t be holding my breath.

    jm says:
    ShelLIE doesn’t know what GZ is capable of and did not know him before, but she says the jury got it right when they acquitted him because of the “evidence” that they knew more of than she did?

    jm says:
    Um, well, people who care about women’s issues might care, if Shellie’s sincere about her disgust with Fogen and her waking up from his control of her.
    She is waking up from his control. She got DUMPED.

    God is there says:
    @jm: Say it again! Say it again! Because that’s all it is. SHE GOT DUMPED!!!

    ay2z says:
    Wow, Xena. Your vid just has to be posted here.
    SZ told OMara a story to try to get Trayvon’s father removed.
    Liar. I don’t completely buy the abused wife thing, yes, do absolutely agree with Prof, that she is (has been) “acting like an abused spouse.”
    Something is missing here in what she and Sims are doing, and she and Sims are becoming more and more transparent. What does MOM know about this? He’s neatly distanced himself by saying not rep for the divorce, but he’s likely got his thumb stiring this pot too. (leaving that open to possibility and why not serve GZ by publication, what’s the delay?).

    • neveragain says:

      I agree I don’t see any HATE in these comments…I do not hate her either

    • neveragain says:

      Yeah…I cannot understand why she would want Tracey Martin thrown out of the courts…the man’s son was killed…do u have any compassion???…don’t u expect him to curse and be angry???…..or was it a surprise to her also that the guy who said Tracey cursed at him under his breath was called to the stand……

    • This is an evidence-based blog.

      Please review the relevant part of my response to Nevermind:

      Because Shellie’s actions are consistent with those of an abused spouse, people here who know something about battered wife syndrome from personal experience and education are reserving judgment. They are taking a wait-and-see approach to see what she does.

      Your opinion of Shellie may very well turn out to be correct. There certainly is evidence to support it. However, there also is evidence to support an opinion that she is abused wife.

      At this point, I do not believe there is enough evidence to rule out either theory.

      Anyone who makes insulting and disparaging remarks about people who disagree with them is not welcome here and needs to go elsewhere.

      I will add the following:

      An obsessive-compulsive need to convince others they are wrong coupled with a stubborn and willful refusal to see any merit in another point of view, instead of agreeing to disagree, is judgmental, domineering and disrespectful.

      The word “namaste” is a respectful greeting in which two people acknowledge the divine spark in each other and endeavor to communicate with each other at that higher level of consciousness.

      I am not seeing that. Instead, I am seeing frustration and anger that the other person will not capitulate and admit they are wrong.

      I am tired and more than a little irritated with this endless back and forth about Shellie. She is a minor player in this tragic story and it is not necessary to resolve today whether she is an evil grifter like her husband or an abused spouse struggling to emerge from a psychological fog of abuse.

      She did not kill Trayvon and I do not believe the disagreement about her should become the battle upon which this blog survives or dies.

      I do not have anything more to say on this subject.

      Good morning and


      • neveragain says:

        It is a discussion…I do not hate her, I did not want her to serve prison time…..we know she is not the one who murdered Trayvon…but she is on the news…so why can’t we discuss what we feel about what she is saying, wether she is being honest or not….i comment on yahoo articles and youtuve videos about all type OS subjects and persons in the public spotlight…..

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Namaste to you, Professor, and to everyone on this blog!

      • neveragain says:

        And is this comment directed towards those who think Shellie is being sincere???..or to those who think otherwise???…..because…………………………….

    • groans says:

      @YAHTC, re:

      I am willing to be BANNED for what I am about to do (which is to bring forward good comments under the article you posted before this one and AGREE with them.


      I salute you, YAHTC! Thank you for this comment. You are downright heroic to stand against the tide and support valid minority viewpoints here. (And just when I was giving up on the notion of heroes anywhere, too!)

      I could have laid out much the same presentation, but it would probably have been dis’d like so many others. Coming from someone like you – a favored one and one of the in-crowd – it carries clout. It also carries risk; and I respect you for your willingness to undertake that risk.

  12. crazy1946 says:

    fauxmccoy, You posted the following to another blog that we both frequent

    “crazy — i have a question for you, unrelated to this blog and regarding another which we both frequent and i am wondering if it is ok with all that i may ask you here. would you mind?”

    My response there to you is/was “fauxmccoy, Actually I would object to your bringing a problem here that does not belong here! If you wish to discuss anything involving that site, feel free to do it there, I will have no problem with your having me banned from there… So feel free to ask (if that is what you wish to do) your questions there… IMO, if you wish to create a problem it would be best to do it where you are protected and not on a site that is not directly involved, thank you for understanding my position on this…”

    Now, I have come out from the safety of my rock, to allow you to do what you requested, but from the place that it should be addressed. If you have a problem with me, then it needs to be addressed in the venue that it belongs in. With that having been said, fire away…

    • neveragain says:

      I will sa again fauxmaccoy, racheal…and others are simply looking for stupid excuses for Shellie..that’s how I see it…I put myself in others shoes/situation..if I were Shellie I would support my husband…I would look for a reason to believe him….bbut Shellie is a liar and a dishonest individual…I think she is as cunning and is no better than gz ….gz may be a bit more selfish and selfcentered….but in terms ohaving rotten personalities..I think they both are guilty of that….

      • crazy1946 says:

        neveragain, I understand your opinion of Mrs. George Zimmerman, but I also understand the opinions that the other posters you mention have expressed. Do I agree with the opinions or not? It does not matter if I do or not because my opinion will not change the course of history.. I will however, as I said in an earlier post cease to express my views on /about her in an effort to abide by the rules expressed by the owner of this blog.

      • Rachael says:

        How is it you think I am looking for an excuse for Shellie, stupid or otherwise? I don’t excuse her actions at all. I’m just pointing out how these types of things can occur. As far as excuses, she doesn’t sound like she’s making excuses either. She seems (to me) to be owning up to her mistakes, taking responsibility for them and taking the punishments for them. I am not excusing anything. Where do you get that idea?

        • neveragain says:

          She is not being honest and any fool can see that….

        • Rachael says:

          And you can maybe go on to say she only is because she got caught, but isn’t that part of getting caught? A wakeup call to see what is going wrong? It doesn’t always happen that way. You would think all this shit GZ has been though would be a wakeup call for him, but he’s just going on and on, making new/more situations and not taking any responsibility for old ones. And I don’t believe he would if he’d have been convicted either. I see a HUGE difference between his behavior and Shellie’s. She may not ever be able to make enough effort to satisfy you, but she is making an effort, which is more than I can say for GZ. I also think the further away she gets from him, both physically and time-wise, the clearer her vision will become, so to speak. She will see things she doesn’t see now. No matter how clear they may be to us, for whatever reason, they were not to her. I really do think that is changing now and will continue.

          • crazy1946 says:

            Rachael, Could one have reason to question the motives of Mrs. George Zimmerman, at this present time? Could one wonder why, after the Zimmerman’s spent the last several years living in a virtual fish bowl, that Mrs. George Zimmerman would continue to keep herself in the public eye, instead of simply dropping out of the public scene and work quietly thru her past/present problems? Would it not seem to some that she actually has some sort of need to remain in the clear view of the entire world? I don’t know this woman, and do not hate her, but I do question her truthfulness and motives at this point. If one could be reformed simply because they got caught, then there are a whole lot of people in the prison system that are simply reformed by having been caught… Opinions are freely given, but how many of us actually know that ours is right and or even objective and not brought about by some bias we have? There are many opinions that have been voiced here over the last several days, which one is correct?

          • Rachael says:

            I guess what I’m saying is, yes, there certainly ARE things people shouldn’t do in the first place, but once they get caught, it is a turning point for them and they straighten out their lives. Sometimes it takes getting caught to jolt them into reality. It doesn’t excuse anything, but it doesn’t mean they are a total waste of humanity forever either. People really can turn their life around, and I just see her as sincere in wanting to. Does that mean she will succeed? I don’t know. But I do believe she is doing what she needs to do in order to try, and I would like to think she is not done and we will see more. I may be wrong. And it won’t be the first time. I’m not saying I “trust” her, but I am saying I am willing to see what is going to happen before deciding she is a lost cause.

          • Rachael says:

            Crazy1946, I’m not sure I understand your questions to me, because it sound like exactly what I just said.

            Of course one would have reason to question Shellie’s at this present time. I’m just saying I have no reason to condemn her at this time. I feel she has lived out of the public eye for the most part, but what you are seeing now is part of what you see when people try to make amends. It is part of the whole healing process. Are you familiar, for example, with 12-step programs and making amends to those you have hurt? I don’t have a problem with her taking responsibility for her actions in public – in fact, that is why I take her a lot more seriously than if she were to just disappear. And I NEVER said that everyone is reformed by getting caught – in fact, I said it doesn’t always (or maybe I said it doesn’t usually) work that way, but sometimes it does. There ARE people in the prison system who learn from there mistakes. Certainly not all, but there are some, and it isn’t always prison. Have you never made a mistake you’ve learned from? My son was a drug addict – he was a drug dealer. A lot of awful things go along with that, like lying and stealing – but he has turned his life around. Quit drugs, went to school, got married has two kids. Sorry, but I do believe that getting caught can be the catalyst to “redemption.” Sometimes it is what people want or need in order to change. It could well be that Shellie had no other way out (as often is the situation in that type of relationship) and getting “caught” was a relief.

            I can’t say the same of GZ.

      • Your tone is inappropriate and insulting.

        I am not looking for “stupid excuses for Shellie,” as you put it, and I do not believe anyone else on this blog is doing that.

        Because Shellie’s actions are consistent with those of an abused spouse, people here who know something about battered wife syndrome from personal experience and education are reserving judgment. They are taking a wait-and-see approach to see what she does.

        Your opinion of Shellie may very well turn out to be correct. There certainly is evidence to support it. However, there also is evidence to support an opinion that she is abused wife.

        At this point, I do not believe there is enough evidence to rule out either theory.

        Anyone who makes insulting and disparaging remarks about people who disagree with them is not welcome here and needs to go elsewhere.

        Consider this a warning shot across your bow.

        • crazy1946 says:

          Professor, Was that comment intended for me? If so, then simply tell, me and I will leave. No need to ban me, I will not stay were I am not welcome to comment. I have always tried to do thing above the board, never hidden or underhanded. I try not to disrespect you or any other poster, and I do attempt to abide by the rules, which is why when another poster attempted to discuss something that apparently occurred on this site within the confines of that site, I requested that it be discussed here and not at a place that was not involved. If I have offended you, then please accept my apology and tell me, and I will leave….

          • Come on, son.

            I do not play games. I like you, damnit.

            I am not banning you or asking you to leave.

            I am just pissed that all this yelling is going on over a trivial issue in the big picture.

            The issues are justice for Trayvon, justice for all who go before our courts, and what can we do to reduce corruption in our legal system.

            Injustice is everywhere while we argue about Shellie Zimmerman.


          • crazy1946 says:

            Professor, thank you for your response. On my part, I am attempting to just let this dog disappear into the sunset, and thought that I had until I was approached on another site about a problem here… Like I have said before to other people, this is your site/home and your rules are to be followed.. Now unless that other poster wishes to make an issue, I will consider this (or at least my part of it) closed. There has been enough back and forth on this non productive topic to last some of for quite some time…

            I wonder if GZ has bought one of those long range murder weapons I mentioned to you yet? The perfect tool to silence a political (or racial) opponent with no great skill needed and little fear of getting caught… Scary thought that you can kill a person from a distance that many of us can not even see clearly. Wonder if that fellow they said used the name Rambo that was arrested in the last few days had some on order for his business?

    • Xena says:

      @crazy1946. I responded to your comment on my blog and communicated privately with the other person. You are correct and I thank you for your respect.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      i have no problem, just a simple question and i believe you answered it. no big deal for me.

  13. neveragain says:

    Wow…well I’ve said before that someone would tend to give their spouse the benefit of the doubt…if gz was your son or cousin or husband, or good freind…you would support him too…you would try your best to believe him…..that being said, I believe that Shellie was hoping that gz would change after he killed someone, after she lied for him and supported him , she got a rude awakening, he think he is now invincible and treated he like garbage as usual and tossed her out…i think she is a habitual liar……that’s just my opinion of her for the moment, she is not an honest individual, no integrity, and I think she was a dishonest, person long before the shooting incident…I just think that she and her husband are 2 of a kind..minus the murder on her part…that’s just how I see it

    • neveragain says:

      I also think the faux commenter is trying to hard to come up with excuses for Shellie..I know about being a product of your environment….that does not make u a liar and dishonest person..every knows that dishonesty is bad..a 3 year old child knows that lying is wrong…we were all birn with a conscience and a bit of common sense……racists adults know that they are racist…liars knows that they are liars…….they are just too dishonest to admit it…..I deal with a person on a daily basis who lies constantly…he will never admit that he is wrong and he will make up blatant lies to justify himself…at times I wondered if he knows the difference between telling a lie and speaking the truth……bthis is someone who places blame on any and averyone but himself…I’m telling you…I’ve known him for 6 years noow, and I am amazed every day at how his mind operates……

      • neveragain says:

        Is any one cazy enough to believe that gz and Shellie never spoke about the roberies and the robbers…gz spoke to the young mother who got robbed about 20 times about that incident….you can hear Jeremy laur on the 911 call saying to his wife..he warned me he’d shoot em…….how much more did gz discuss what he would do if he enciuntered one of those thieves while he laid in bed with his wife………she probably can’t say much because she too has probaby said things in the past about these thieves, what she would love to see happen to them…I probably would have said the same…no one likes a thief…..I bet she profiled blacks guys too…because blacks were the ones committing the burgleries….she probably told gz every time she saw a black guy walkinng around…common sense people….

        • neveragain says:

          Correction….he warned me he’d shoot em…

        • Assuming that 1 black teenager is a probable burglar because rumor has it that young black males have been burglarizing homes, is not common sense. It’s a form of racism called racial profiling.

          Some people here, including myself, suspect GZ was the leader of a burglary ring in the neighborhood. I believe Xena was the first person to propose that theory.

          Shellie would know if it’s true.

          Trouble is she has severe credibility issues because she committed perjury at the bond hearing to protect him and she has a strong motive to continue to protect him since he likely would kill her if she snitched on him.

  14. colin black says:

    lurker says:

    September 27, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    I don’t think that she has yet appeared on any shows that pay for interviews. But, if she gets an overnight trip to NYC for the interview, I can see where that would be a temptation.

    @Shellie is appearing on TV shows because she can.

    Unlike her estranged husband whom cannot appear in front of the cameras as he fears the questions he may be asked.

    He is no longer able to dictate the flow of an interview with a softly softly interviewer like hanratty .

    He can no longer use the excuse that he is forbidden to talk of x y or z due to pending criminal case

    Or that the truth will come out at trial .

    Just as he avoided the stand dureing his trial as he had no answers.

    He still has no answers and now no attorney to shield him.

    He has no bargaining power he has nothing .

    Shellie is well aware of his predicament an so takes every opertunity to rub his face into the fact she can do media an press magazines whilst he must remain silent.

    She is letting him know that just as she became disenfranchised due to his murder of Trayvon.

    He is the one now suffering the fate of anonminity enforced silence loss of a point of view or voice he is now the one disenfranchised.

    An She is now the one with a voice an the ear of an eager media.

    Its a very risky strategy to use on a known murderer /.

    But if its upsetting foggage an making him suffer in some small way then more power to her .

  15. colin black says:

    Mojo says:

    September 27, 2013 at 6:19 pm

    There are lots of bon-bons to be eaten. George needs a big screen in which to place his large, cowardly, unemployed ass in front of on his way to 400 lbs.

    Close but no cigar .
    Truth is foggage being the celebrity an all he thinks he is .

    Needed a wide screen tv as his own tv wasn’t wide screen an in order to view his ample girth on the google box a wide screen 90 inch screen is neccecer otherwise only half his ass is on screen.

    That’s the real reason he has the fattest body gauerd on the planet whom moves at two feet a minute in persuit of attackers.

    It has a slimming affect on foggage.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Thank you. Very interesting.

    • Malisha says:

      The idea that journalists themselves will fix journalism is like the idea that the cops will police themselves.

      NOTHING fixes these things.These things get worse and this is how empires fall, one after another.

  16. Malisha says:

    Lurker, that’s just what I would consider a “right decision.”

    Actually, if I were to go into an inventory of “proper penance for participating in murder and cover-up,” it would be a longer list. I’m just a person who often felt that killing was justified but who never did it. I spent many years trying to help victims of abusers like Fogen, and not one of them ever got 1/10 of the attention Fogenette has gotten with her microwave-ready platitudes and self-righteous blather.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Microwave-ready? ) Well, yes, Malisha. The reason I’ve questioned her intelligence is that virtually everything out of her mouth has a pre-fab “coached” quality about it that I attribute to her attorney Kelly Sims. He’s doing his job and then some.

      What are her tpersonal houghts? We may never know, because whatever goes on in her brain may depend on who she’s hanging out with at the moment.

      I’ve once worked for a family-owned company where the “CEO” was the daughter of the founder. She tried. She really did. And she meant well. But she never had an original thought in her life that wasn’t planted in her head by the last person who got to her, whether the issue on the table was huge or miniscule.

  17. Rachael says:

    Professor, I am so glad to see this article here. I was going to comment yesterday, but didn’t have a chance.

    I think I am the odd man out. I do believe Shellie is sincere. Yes, it is possible she is not and only time will tell, but I have been involved in an abusive relationship and believe me, it is a different world when someone is pulling all your strings, even if you don’t realize you do and you think you are in love. It is like being drugged. You are isolated and brainwashed basically. And we see how GZ is with people he doesn’t have that relationship with.

    I am NOT excusing Shellie, not at all. I’m just saying that she may not have had any understanding of herself at the time, much less of GZ. Yes, there are things should could have and should have done differently. But she didn’t. But she IS taking responsibility for it and of all the people involved here, SHE is the only one paying for it – and seems to feel she deserves to.

    I believe she is sincere. That doesn’t make what she did right, that doesn’t excuse her. But it does mean I believe in giving her a chance.

    There was something else, but I’ll have to say it later.

    • If I were in her shoes, I’d get as far away from him as possible; I’d see about transferring those papers to serve that probation period in another state. Sure would.

      • Rachael says:

        Yes, she needs to get away from him and stay away from him. Thank god they have no children.

      • colin black says:

        But Crane you have a Brain an can think logicaly.
        You also have skills to pay bills wich an education or work ethic an if one lucky both.

        Also a Partner that loves an supports you an would go along with any move or relocation if it bettered your safety an environment.

        Shellie has none of those things I doubt She has ever left the State of Florida in her life even on vacation.

        An I doubt very much she has travelled abroad even to Canada or Mexico.

        Did she have a passport to surrender for her Bail ?
        Mind you many people can have a passport for id purposes only especialy if they don’t drive.

        Anyway what I am getting at as Shellie doesn’t have the moxey to strike out on her own hit the road as such.I cant see her moveing away from what ever support network she has.

        An Im pretty sure its all pretty local to where shes at.

        As you know getting up an moveing you terms of probation are not so easy.

        You would have to convince your present probation officer that you had a safe an secure location an legitimit address to move to .

        Wich would entail checking by the officials at the other town city state where ever you intended moveing also checking it out.

        An agreeing to take you on as a client in there durastriction.

        They could say nay she was convicted in your State you pay for her cost of her probation an the probation officers wages.

        But it immaterial as she wont budge neither will foggage there small minded with a small world horizion not by choice but by lack of imagination an courage Citys are full of such Folk.

        City I live in in the UK about 50 percent of the locals never leave the confines of the City.

        Never even travel to London wich is 90 mins on a train?

        In my way off thinking the more eejits an small minded folk there are the easier it is for those whom want to seize the day.

        • Well, I do see what you are saying. Some folks have never been away from their area, and her parents are there. Now, if she had family someplace else for home placement, I don’t think a transfer of those papers would be difficult, especially given her situation. I do know that probation is a bit tougher than parole for this stuff, but still, she’s got good reason.

          Don’t know about her passport situation, no idea.

    • Rachael says:

      Okay, I’m back. Anyway, what I was going to say was as far as the part where she said that she does not believe it was racially motivated, I will always believe it was. What I think is perhaps Shellie honestly does not believe that because she honestly does not believe he or she is racist – but as with most racists, they don’t believe they are. I am always shocked at the blatantly racists things I hear sometimes by people who swear they don’t have a racist bone in their body. And this was, IMO, blatant racism. However, if what she says is true, he’d have gone after anyone that night, that doesn’t make it any better. It all proves he is a dangerous menace to society who would kill anyone who “he feels” provokes him (though again, I believe a black person would provoke him more) and he should not be out here amongst us. Will she ever see that? IDK, but I do feel she is sincere and when someone has been in a relationship like she had, it isn’t just physical abuse – it may not be physical abuse at all, it is the emotional and mental abuse that is awful. It literally is brainwashing. If done “correctly,” no physical abuse is necessary. It is like PTSD and can take years of therapy to undo the mind control.

      I feel she is on the right path and will see all this at some time. I could be wrong, but right now, I choose to support her recovery rather than bash her. I do believe she is sincere.

      Does that excuse her actions? No. But she is taking responsibility, so I am willing to give her my support.

      • lurker says:

        Robert, jr and sr are classjc examples of those who swear they are not racist, all the while actjng out of incredible bigotry.

        • You all have thoughtful comments says:

          I truly believe that Shellie (like gz’s cousin) has been witness to the racism in the family.

          How can Shellie eliminate outright that gz did not racially profile Trayvon?!

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            I think Shellie HAD to know that George racially profiled Trayvon.

          • Rachael says:

            Like I said, it is because Shellie is a racist herself but doesn’t realize or believe it. Like Lurker said, look at Jr. and dad. Or the entire outhouse gang. They honestly think they are not racist – in fact, they think WE are. I’m telling you, people who are racist do not believe they are, they cannot see it. They just can’t. Maybe it is more like they won’t, I don’t know.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @rachael — this is why i said yesterday that shellie is a product of her environment. when one considers where she was born and raised, wonders about the dysfunction in her original family unit, then further ponders her lack of experience, education and subsequent marriage — i would not expect her to even comprehend any single racial aspect of trayvon’s murder.

            she may or may not be a racist, i am willing to say that i do not know. i will also say that she is likely ignorant of the many and sometimes subtle forms of racism. it isn’t always as obvious as throwing around Nbombs.

            if that is her societal norm, then it’s going to take a whole lot of experience, education and enlightenment for her to acknowledge any racism in herself, her family or that trayvon was profiled and that law enforcement supported it.

          • Rachael says:

            Yes, Faux – ” i will also say that she is likely ignorant of the many and sometimes subtle forms of racism.”

            Maybe I’m too quick to lump that into the group I label racists. Like I said, it seems that “they” don’t even know they are racists, can’t/don’t see it, and that is exactly what I mean by that. It is ignorance, but to me, that is kind of the root of racism to begin with.

  18. bettykath says:

    “Some people consider the practice of love and compassion is only related to religious practice and if they are not interested in religion they neglect these inner values. But love and compassion are qualities that human beings require just to live together.” — Dalai Lama

  19. Malisha says:

    Why not light a candle in your heart for her and offer a prayer that she makes the right choice?

    Here’s my version of what would be the right choice for Shellie:

    1. Independently offer an apology for Fogen’s behavior to everyone negatively affected by it, on national television. Not any re-hash of the “I’m sorry they had to bury their child.” No. Rather, a straight-up “I’m sorry that I did not join with the various residents of RTL who voiced concerns that my husband was causing them problems; I’m sorry that I did not reveal, BEFORE he killed someone, that he was a violent, racist and dangerous man; I’m sorry that I let him take my gun.”

    2. Tell absolutely EVERYTHING she knows. About EVERYONE. About all the people who contributed to this monstrous offense against human safety, dignity and peace. Anything that she has that remains from the years she was with Fogen, make them available to the DOJ and to private parties and organizations who are still interested in finding out who really did what to whom. ALL OF IT not reserving or hiding a single puff of wind.

    3. Offer to work for minimum wage (or for subsistence, such as room and board plus medical care and a small stipend) for three years for whatever organization tries to bring some sense of justice to this horror.

    4. Work with any journalists and/or writers wish to document the entire situation. FOR FREE.

    And all the other decisions, such as what to wear and how to do her hair, I would leave to her excellent discretion.

    Sure hope she makes the right choice.


    • Kate says:

      She doesn’t have to apologize for him but own up to how she really feels and the views she shared with him. If she can clear that then that is the step in the right direction.

      I am sure she could be of some use to the DOJ if she has evidence. But one of 2 things, she might have credibility issues and they may say she is just scorned and out for revenge. Second, she isn’t going to say anything that jeopardizes her receiving any possible settlement money from NBC.

      Speaking of that lawsuit. I wonder if this is going to hurt him regarding that because of his actions. Those NBC lawyers have 2 things going for them. 1. they probably have unlimited resources and cash to fight the case. 2. they will probably be able to use the power of media to dig up what they need to dig up on him. I believe the killer has hurt his case by his reckless actions post trial and any jury, if it goes to a jury, may not award him the case. He has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way since the trial. We shall see.

      • Kate says:

        I said, “I am sure she could be of some use to the DOJ if she has evidence. But one of 2 things, she might have credibility issues and they may say she is just scorned and out for revenge. Second, she isn’t going to say anything that jeopardizes her receiving any possible settlement money from NBC.”
        I just thought of something. Her doing this media blitz has almost officially made it so that she would be no use to the DOJ. That is why I said she would have been better off keeping her mouth closed. Now they can pull up these tapes and say she was on a campaign to slander him.

    • lurker says:

      Wow–that’s asking a lot.

      Some of what you list might fall under the category of making amends. For those who follow 12-step recovery programs, making amends is a step, but it is NOT the first step. A lot has to go before, essentially surrendering control over whatever addiction/behavior has been rending life unmanageable–and seeking help from a power better suited to the job. Then comes a lot of introspection (taking inventory), with another person, to sort out who has been harmed. Only then is someone ready to take on amends.

      And this is not typically a straight path up the stairs. There is a lot of looping backwards, reconsidering, surrendering again and again. And the first and greatest harm that needs to be taken care of has to be the harm one has done to one’s self.

      Oh, and taking other people’s inventories–not helpful.

    • Boyd says:

      minimum wage? you’re a ball buster 🙂

      She won’t do a thing, she still loves that loser.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      I agree 100% with you Malisha!

  20. Kate says:

    He’s getting pulled over a lot. Maybe they are watching him or it might just be coincidence but that is a lot within the past few weeks. Unless he is just doing things to get noticed by the police.

    Maybe his license plate is flagged, IDK, it’s just strange.

    • lurker says:

      Except these were in pretty widely divergent areas. The first one was in Texas. The second was in St. Mary (and they were the only ones to give him a ticket). The most recently reported was in another county, I believe.

    • You watch. He’ll claim it’s his, always has been and she’s lying.

      Man, is this guy ever manipulative. All those hundreds of thousands of donor dollars and he couldn’t see a way to his own damn television set? Give me. A break.

      • Sophia33 says:

        I know right?

      • Kate says:

        “All those hundreds of thousands of donor dollars and he couldn’t see a way to his own damn television set? Give me. A break.”

        LOL indeed. But as you say he is manipulative so if he did do this it is more psychological to inflict damage on her family. I’ve had my car broken into and you feel violated after something like that happens.

        • It can’t possibly be a dire need for television and furniture. I think he is trying to provoke something, some kind of a response, so that when they ‘posture’ he can ‘posture’ back (with his gun) and then portray himself as a victim, again, and justify his behavior. I don’t know what else it could be. A simple phone call ahead of time could have avoided this.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            beyond all that — he damn well knows that if he and shellie did not buy the tv with their ill gotten gains, then it is not his to take.

            the fact that he destroyed his bro in laws computer just shows ill will and spite. he is doing what he can to provoke anything and will try to come out the victim in it somehow.

      • lurker says:

        Or claim he only took it in payment for something that Shellie took that he thinks belongs to him.

        • No doubt, but the part I don’t get is, he could have called ahead, or had someone else call, and make arrangements. That way, if the stuff belongs to him, and they told him he couldn’t pick it up, well, he could have filed a complaint. Now, however, there is a police report plus the stuff from last evening about an intruder. At first he seems to be just a loser, but well…he is actually more manipulative than I thought.

          • lurker says:

            I think that even pretty healthy people in break-up situations tend to suffer from a need to control the other person. Generally one-half of the couple wants it more thant the other. And underneath it all, most people don’t really want to break up, they just want the other person to be different than they are. So-when people don’t get what they want they have tantrums and keep picking at the scab and trying to force situations–all hoping to come out with a different outcome.

            George went to the house because he knew Shellie would be there. And he went around behaving obnoxiously. Shellie’s filming may also have been on the aggressive side. George’s behavior was attention seeking, but I think that Shellie’s came more from the opportunity to stand up and say she wasn’t going to take it any more.

            And, as a result, George looked a fool in public. So, he got even.

          • Well, I agree on the attention seeking. I can’t even keep up, seems he was pulled over again, and got yet another pass, again, for window tinting? WTF?

          • Trained Observer says:

            He’s a practiced schemer, with a lot of manipulative experience under his belt (and all the blubber).

          • colin black says:

            Only a complete jerk off would take his latest squeeze dresses in a long black neglige out to his ex to watch him go radio rental in drive way an garage punch his father in law an berate an smash up his present wifes eye pad .

            All the while whilst toteing a gun .

            And only a complete an utter head case of a person would agree willingly to accompany him.

            After all you’ve got foggage with a loaded weapon and a brand new an holster strap to boot.
            Going into a volatile confrontation what could possably go wrong ?

            Going out on a date with this P . O . S . its never going to be to a music concert .

            Only a case of are you going to end up on charges of acting in concert with this disaster waiting to happen again!

          • Yup. Funny but true:

            “And only a complete an utter head case of a person would agree willingly to accompany him”

          • Trained Observer says:

            Colin — if you proposed your quite accurate synopsis of what we might now well call the Day of the iPad as a screenplay, studio muckety-mucks might tell you to make it more realistic, since that sort of thing could never happen 🙂

          • Isn’t that it. You can’t make this stuff up.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            Best soap opera ever!

      • Girlp says:

        Of course not he’s privilaged he doesn’t have to follow any rules or laws he can do what he wants. Wow not willing to spend a couple thousand of dollars on a TV and some furniture now think about who was committing crimes in his community. Sad.

      • Mojo says:

        There are lots of bon-bons to be eaten. George needs a big screen in which to place his large, cowardly, unemployed ass in front of on his way to 400 lbs.

        • Well yes, and it’s outrageous. One does not need a TV, but if you gotta have one you can get an adequate one for (nothing, quite frankly…so we know he took a flattie, most likely) next to nothing, and the same goes for furniture.

          Seems to me he likes to watch himself on TV. But also, being given one pass after another, on a nearly daily basis, he is getting support and even encouragement, for his outrageous and self-centered behavior. He’s always the victim. He has a new script with the ‘death threat’ thing, did you notice that? Like, ‘I have to behave like an animal because I am getting death threats, and that means I have to break the traffic laws and such’…and he is being encouraged, actually, to do that.

    • MDH says:

      George is painting himself into a box.

      He has now made enemies with the Dean family and whatever friends they have. In essence, every face he now sees in the swirling maze of black, brown and white could be the “one”.

      George kind of reminds me of those lines from Deliverance:

      Griner Brother: What the Hell you want to F with the river for?

      Lewis Medlock {George}: Because it is there.

      Griner Brother: It’s there, all right. And if it gets you, you gonna wish you hadn’t.

      Like Lewis Medlock, George’s arrogance and inflated sense of himself will lead to his perdition.

  21. Malisha says:

    I heard a feminist explanation, years back (about 1988), about why domestic violence was so acceptable in our culture. The idea was that it kept the streets safe. If the angry guy could go home and beat the wife, maybe even kick the dog, terrorize and punish his kids, make a holy effin row and get everybody running around screaming in fear and then appeasing him and making up to him and kissing up to him, he could diffuse the rage and dissatisfaction he felt in his life WITHOUT going “postal” in the street and harming some other MAN. Men didn’t have to be afraid of each other’s violence; the girls back home could soak it up and they deserved to, because they were “part of the problem” that made the guys so angry to begin with. Strutting around all the time showing they didn’t have to listen to their men, see? Getting their own money and their own jobs and not being respectful, see? Not being grateful. See? Yeah, that’s it.

    Once men weren’t free to beat up the old lady, the pressure cooker was under more pressure. Somebody might have to go out and get into it with another MAN — uh oh!

    Then you have people like Fogen who can just kill a KID and get his manhood back THAT WAY. Used to work in the Deep South in the not so distant past; why not in our “just say anything” present? And our ALEC-controlled neofeudalistic future?

    • Mojo says:

      Malisha, I was taught that a man respects women and never hits or physically abuses a woman. I think I’ve been successful in imparting that wisdom on my own two adult sons. The type of males your describe above are not men; they’re inadequate, paranoid and frightened cowards (like GZ) that would retreat in fear and piss their pants if confronted by a man.

  22. Judy75201 says:

    What does this say about the individual who said, “THE JURY KNEW MORE ABOUT THE INFORMATION THAN I DID”?

    What that says is that she blindly believed whatever she was told, like a good little wifey.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Sometimes passive people parrot their abusive mates – identify with the oppressor. I became an ugly person in my early 20s while trying to placate a not very nice and extremely controlling, sociopathic mate. Fortunately, I only stayed four years.

  23. bettykath says:

    I appreciate the suggestion to keep the hate and anger out of our posts. The thread about Shellie did show what we thought about her and many of the posts were hateful and angry. I didn’t like reading those posts. I’ve made a deliberate attempt to remove such emotions from my life and I’ve felt the positive difference it’s made.

    In my experience, my anger is usually rooted in some hurt that I’ve felt. When I deal with the hurt, the anger goes away. Hatred comes from anger that has not been dealt with and it hurts us much more than the those we hate. It moves us to their level.

    Frankly, I don’t know enough about Shellie to suggest much beyond a belief that she has been abused, emotionally for sure and possibly physically. It looks like she is trying to deal with getting rid of fogen but it’s going to be difficult. She will make mistakes along the way. Castigating her for every misstep isn’t helpful.

    I was in an emotionally abusive marriage for 19 years. Ten years after the divorce I was still trying to heal. I made many mistakes in those 28 years. I hope it doesn’t take Shellie as long to heal.

  24. Kate says:

    My goodness I come back and all hell broke loose?

    We are assuming this woman does not share the same views as her husband. Seems some people have their blinders on. Like I said before in the jailhouse recording they mocked people that supported this dead child.

    A child is dead! And at the time she thought it was comical. She didn’t think much of this child. She thinks very little of him now because if she were being honest she would come out and reveal herself. That would garner her more respect in my eyes, but she is doing a media circuit and purposely being evasive and maybe or maybe not dropping little hints her husband is no good? But what about her? She lied and painted her husband as some choir boy to cover up the murder of a child. She would have done better to keep her mouth shut. Honestly people need to stop being gullible and naive.

    A child died and in this recent interview she says what? “THE JURY KNEW MORE ABOUT THE INFORMATION THAN I DID”. What does that say about this individual? She didn’t even bother or care enough WITH A DEAD CHILD to review and put together the evidence. So how can she say the evidence was right? How can she say the verdict was right? This dead kid wasn’t even worth her time to even look any of it over. Lets please get out heads out of the sand.

    • Kate says:

      And I am with MDH that is not hate, that is truth. She does not get a pass from me and I am not going to sit here and buy the rotten apples she’s selling that all of a sudden she is a victim. She wasn’t a victim when it was funny to her and she is not a victim now.

  25. Girlp says:

    I agree with the professor this is a wait and see situation a person can change, Shellie may or may not change statics don’t tell all it depends on her decisions in life I’ve seen it happen. Also, just because she took the blinders off does not mean she sees and understands everything all at once she will have to work them through one by one and that may take many years; this is from personal experience.

  26. colin black says:

    Oh my GOD

    The Bank of Scotland is selling 77 of it branches to the Church Of England.

    I suppose the elders in the Church an the Archbiship never got to the part of the New Testament where Jesus goes batshit Crazy over money lenders setting up shop in a Temple.?

  27. Xena says:

    Have we not been taught to believe in redemption, rebirth, tolerance, love and forgiveness?

    Personally, I have compassion for Shellie — not sympathy but compassion. I see the two differently. Shellie didn’t pull the trigger killing Trayvon Martin. Her husband did. If she can reveal any truth about her husband that tells the world what we have known about his nature and ways since he took an innocent life, then so be it.

    Since the verdict, Shellie says that she has taken the blinders off. She redeemed herself to the court on the perjury charge. She has filed for divorce. She has spoken to the media.

    OTOH, George has been stopped 3 times for traffic violations. He has been filmed behaving angrily and destroying Shellie’s iPad. His statement to the cops is likened to what we know about him accusing others.

    He has a 400lb friend standing by as a “protector” allowing George to be destructive. He is avoiding summons of the divorce papers.

    I must thank Shellie for being the catalyst to reveal the real George Zimmerman.

    • colin black says:

      Shellie has to live with the fact that in some way she does share guilt in the Murder of Trayvon.

      If we are to assume foggage was home alone seething after yet another domestic argument/fight that was intense enough to cause her to head home to her Fathers house.

      Who knows foggage may have tried to phone or txt her to get the sweet talk smoocherino fest on.
      An lure her back to his domain.An she wasn’t responding eventually in a rage fogagge heads out into the night determined to gain her attention in a way she can not ignore or hang up.

      If that’s how things went down that’s a lot of internal guilt to process an also explains her actions in the cover up .

      For to admittt the truth she would also have to acknowlage she fuelled the fires of the phycos rage.

      • Xena says:

        @colin black. Things are coming to light. Shellie says that she left and went to her dad’s that Saturday night after she and George had an argument. Then, GZ kills Trayvon on Sunday evening, and the Zimmerman’s move out of the townhouse in the wee hours of the morning and moved in with the Ostermans.

        Discern. Shellie was all too willing to live with George elsewhere. I suspect that whatever argument they had, had to do with harm coming to them at the townhouse from someone who lives in R@TL or has access to enter that community.

        • lurker says:

          Interesting theory. Or she may have seen the opportunity to win back his affections by standing by him when the chips are down. Leaving to stay with her father may have been more on the order of a tantrum than the ultimate escape.

          • Xena says:


            Or she may have seen the opportunity to win back his affections by standing by him when the chips are down

            There can be numerous speculations but logically, a wife who leaves her husband expects for him to win her back. The responsibility would rest on George, and it appears that the only thing he did was make it possible for them to move out of their townhouse and in with the Ostermans.

    • Judy75201 says:

      Well said.

      • Xena says:

        @Judy75201. In the jailhouse phone calls, I hear a condescending George and a Shellie who humors him. The money she transferred into her account was her escape money. I can see that by how she was spending money from her mom AFTER George took off from the Osterman’s.

        It ended up that George’s parents got their $3,500 back, but Shellie’s mom did not get her $1,000 back, and after he made bond, the money in Shellie’s account was transferred into George’s account. There went her escape money. She was back in the proverbial bare-foot and pregnant position.

        Shellie is a woman who at the age of 19 married a man 4 yrs her senior who moved in with her in her mom’s house and stayed there for 3 yrs. She stopped working after the first year of their marriage and he couldn’t keep a job. I wonder what she thinks of Sondra Osterman now?

        • Judy75201 says:

          And I hear a wife who said “you can have a good life”, not “we”. That spoke volumes to me.

          • lurker says:

            I think she was used to bucking him up. I wouldn’t be surprised if he suffers from bouts of depression and low self-esteem.

          • Xena says:


            And I hear a wife who said “you can have a good life”, not “we”. That spoke volumes to me.

            Yes, it certainly does. For one, it says that Shellie presumed that George would take the money and run. She didn’t think in her wildest dreams that the first sight the public would have of her would be her mugshot, arrested for perjury, while she was still broke and still with George.

    • Sophia33 says:

      I agree with you Xena. I have compassion for her and I think she is an abused wife.

      • Xena says:

        @Sophia33. Thank you. Anyone perceiving the real George Zimmerman should know that he is a controlling, manipulating, lying, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. He is a parasite. He didn’t get an educated, financially independent wife but a 19 yr old who was still living at home. IMHO, the Zimmermans want to give an outside impression of being perfect while in reality, they are hiding their imperfections and looking for imperfections in others. George molded Shellie into the same concept.

        There are many spouses who never have anything critical to say about their spouse, until they realize that the spouse has never said anything good about them. Shellie was awaiting trial for perjury and George went on a “victory tour” leaving her alone to deal with the possible 5 yrs she was facing in prison. How loving of him, uh? (snark)

        • Sophia33 says:

          Plus, he was so financially unstable that he needed to use her credit to get anything.

          • Xena says:


            Plus, he was so financially unstable that he needed to use her credit to get anything.

            Excellent point. That would make Shellie patient hoping for George to hit the lottery and pay off the debts.

        • Sophia33 says:

          Yep. As someone who has been with her share of men who were financially unstable, I can’t understand her doing it. I also have had those same men be abusive. I think there is a line from the movie “Waiting to Xhale” that characterizes this well. Women often believe “If I give him what he needed, he will give me what I needed”. And that day of him giving you what you needed too often never comes with these kinds of men. Shellie went so far as to lie to a judge to give George what she thought he needed. And he wasn’t there for her when she had to pay for that lie. Shellie told a lie I Tracy Martin because she thought she was helping George.

          And how many women have been married to monsters and been clueless. Long before Ariel Castro remember that woman who had no clue that her husband had their eldest daughter locked in a sound-proof basement and was raping her? Sometimes as women, we can be extremely loyal to our men no matter how awful they are. It’s sometimes hard to believe that you married to or fell in love with a monster.

          There are a lot of layers to Shellie Zimmerman’s situation. Zimmerman got her when she was 19. I had a less than desirable man get a hold of me at 19. That can be powerful control to hook up with someone so young. He was almost certainly a Jekyll and Hyde character. It’s like a mind control.

          She still has to take responsibility for her actions. But I have a little more understanding for where I think she may be coming from.

          • Trained Observer says:

            That was in Austria, wasn’t it? And of course none of us Stateside realized similiar multiple horror was unfolding in Cleveland.

          • Xena says:


            Yep. As someone who has been with her share of men who were financially unstable, I can’t understand her doing it.

            Wish I had a quarter for every woman I met needing an order of protection who married men the same as Shellie did. The most common thread is the man painting himself as victim, and mostly by another woman. They believe they are and can be better than the ex and by supporting him, he will get the job, buy the house, pay for two cars and jet skis, and take them on a cruise every year — if only — if only they had the right woman.

            Their first mistake is thinking that they can earn love.

            Of course what they don’t realize is that no matter what they do, they will never be good enough for those type of men. They are parasites who go from one “host” to another to another.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            Wow, brings back a lot of sad memories for me from my “women who love too much” days.

  28. colin black says:

    Hate is a powerfull negative emotion that one should never harbour to do so only harms your self.

    Think about whilst love an empathy an forgiveness are powerfull emotions that don’t harm us they can heal one soul.

    Hate on the other hand wrecks ones inner self especialy pointless rage an hate directed at strangers we neither know an will probably never encounter.

    Hate directed at people one knows is even worse as it consumes you in negative energy from negative emotions.

    Hate for ones suroundings and or predicament is also hurtfull an meaningless as hate uses up time an thought an energies best used in changing ones circumstances an finding your self in a better place or frame of mind rather that venting all that negative emotion towards it.

    Hate is an emotion luckily that most people internilise as well wich is why its so negative.

    Unlike love an other positive emotions people tend to hate in silence an most times the object of there loathing doesn’t even realise it

    Or as in the case of foggage an his wife doesn’t even know or care if we exsist

    So why waste energy on hateing strangers or people we know or encounter dureing our lifes.

    To hate some one or some thing is to give it power over you.

    Your not only acknoligeing it an giving it the time of day if you hate something or some one enough

    It can consumme you

    Believe me Im speaking from experience.

    Once you let hate go its like lifting a ton of bricks from your shoulders.

    Just as if you truly love some one your willing to let them be free.

    Untill you stop from hateing you will never be free.

    Disgust condemnation ect are all acseptable emotions an beleifs but hate is to strong an emotion to use against anyone as if you give hate safe harbour in your soul .

    One day it will turn its attentions inward towards your self.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      words of wisdom, mr. black, sir. i am reminded of a quote from one of my favorite authors, who was much, much more than a mere author. i would use the word ‘hate’ as interchangeable with the word he chose, anger.

      “Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured.”

      • crazy1946 says:

        fauxmccoy, Please see my post dated at 5:25 am in response to your question on another blog! I will be on and off here reading all day long, so be patient, it might take me a little while to respond…

  29. Two sides to a story says:

    Even the worst of the worst deserve the consideration that the human spirit can be transformed. The person that seems irredeemable in this life may be a great teacher in the next one, according to the Buddhist viewpoint.

    One Tibetan Buddhist universal prayer for everyone’s enlightenment and equanimity is this:

    All mother sentient beings-
    Especially those enemies who hate me, obstructors who harm me,
    And those who create obstacles on my path to liberation and omniscience-
    May they experience happiness and be separated from suffering,
    Swiftly will I establish them in the state of unsurpassed, perfect, complete,and precious buddhahood.

    Doesn’t hurt to send good thoughts to people even as we despair about their actions. It’s good when people grow and admit their failings and even Mr. and Mrs. Fogen are capable of that as long as they are in human form.

  30. fauxmccoy says:

    thank you professor.

    • Mary Davis says:

      @ Fauxy. Although I don’t agree totally with you on Shellie, I do admire you for standing up for what you believe in. It’s people like you that really make a difference in the cause they believe in.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        i think people misunderstand me on this. i give shellie no passes. i do however acknowledge that she alone in the entire clan is the only one paying any legal price, that she confessed her wrongs publicly, offered apologies and i for one can accept that. i also acknowledge that she is in a very dangerous position now with a murderous spouse she is divorcing who has clearly threatened her and she has little protection from law enforcement due to her probation status.

        i am clear on one thing — i wish her no harm, only enlightenment. whether she gets there or not remains to be seen. i do believe she was controlled and abused by her spouse, i have too much education in that very field to make any other determination. it is because of my education and training though that nothing she says or does is remotely surprising to me, i have seen it all before.

        there is no need for us to agree, but for the sake of the harmony of fred’s blog, i strongly believe there is no reason for us to be ugly towards each other.

        yes, i do take violence against women as strongly as i take violence against children and will graciously accept your compliment. thank you.

  31. Shari says:

    Boo Hoo poor her. This is your website and most of us will continue to lurk or just stop reading. You all can feel sorry for her in peace. I own my identity and I am not forced to think and feel what Sybrina and Tracy are. Sybrina said during a morning show that the murder of her son was a horrible accident, then backtracked. Am I forced to agree with that view? Of course not. Posting on a blog is a privilege not a right. Your rules.

    The only news I want to hear about these two is when justice is served.

    • I never said I felt sorry for her.

      I said,

      Maybe Shellie Zimmerman is a sympathetic human being slowly emerging from a fog of abuse or maybe she is a grifter attempting to even up the score with a grifter husband who dumped her. Maybe she is a mixture of both. Regardless what we believe, the truth will be revealed as we watch from afar.

      Shellie is at a crossroad in her life and we can only watch as she chooses what to do.

      She is what she is and she will be whatever she decides to be.

      Whatever choice she makes for whatever reason should have little or no impact on our lives.

      Instead of shrieking at her, why not thank her for exposing something in us that we may need to own and decide to change?

      She will have to answer for what she did wrong and that is as it should be.

      I did not intend this blog to be a hate parade and I will not allow it to become one.

      • Shari says:

        Awesome for you. Yay faux! He’s got your back!

        Hate requires a lot of energy. I don’t dedicate enough thought to the murderer and his wife to hate them. I only think of them when either you or twitter posts about them.

        Good day.

        • jm says:

          I see what is going on now. LOL

          • crazy1946 says:

            jm, Hmmm, even a blind man must be able to see occasionally… You need to learn to pick your targets better… some saw this coming after your exchange yesterday…. 😉 What was that old song, was it Big Bad Leroy Brown?

          • jm says:

            I had not tried to target anyone. I disagreed with posters whose theories did not make sense. I agreed with posters whose theories did make sense. I deal in logic and not what-if, perhaps and maybe.

            I did not know there were games going on. I thought this was a subject open to discussion. It is apparent I was wrong. I guess the next step in not being “so kind” for a certain poster is to go to the Professor and tattle on someone who disagreed with her.

            LOL, I had no clue.

            I’m out of here.

          • You really pissed me off.

            No one tattled on anyone.

            WTF is wrong with you?

            I have read comment after comment you’ve made pounding Shellie into the ground.

            Like a bully, you seize every possible opportunity to slam her into ground, kick her to keep her down, and grind her into the dirt face first.

            You are obsessed with her and you need to figure out why you so compulsively have to put her down as though she were the root of all evil.

            She’s a minor player in this case.

            Get your shit together or don’t bother coming back.

          • jm says:

            I thought better of you Professor. I think you are crass, biased and I won’t be back. No worries.

          • Frankly, I don’t give a damn what you think.

            Consider yourself banned.


          • Oh dear, this is not going well.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            shall we have a cigarette? 😉

          • Rachael says:

            Thank you. His/her comments were upsetting me a lot yesterday as well. Haven’t had time to do much or say much, but just wanted to say thanks.

          • Mojo says:

            I’m sorry, but this exchange is priceless.

            Crane-Station says: Oh dear, this is not going well.

            Frederick Leatherman says: Went just fine for me.

            fauxmccoy says: shall we have a cigarette?

            I’m no so sure it was meant as humor (except for faux’s response), but I laughed so hard the Pepsi I was drinking shot through my nose and all over my keyboard. Damn, that hurts.

          • Trained Observer says:

            But, even if he’s gone, do we still think he’s pretty?

  32. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    What I have been most pained by is having had to witness gz’s undeserved testimonial support by his family and by the people who know him really to be OTHER than what they testified to.

    Each time that I consider this, and then feel the reactive churning inside myself…….I think of Sybrina and Tracy and mourn all the more for them.

    Oh, to think how HARD Sybrina and Tracy are working to bring about CHANGE!

    from 3ChicsPolitico:

    I pray that Sybrina and Tracy will continually be granted strength for their arduous journey for justice and change and be granted comfort in their quiet moments of heartbreak.

    • Judy75201 says:

      Beautiful. Thanks for posting this.

    • I agree. I have seen some hateful things posted about Trayvon’s parents posted on social media sights. In my opinion, George’s parents may have the status and connections in their community-but they did a terrible job parenting George. I suspect they were extremely harsh in disciplining him and over critical of him. The “thou shalt” part of the George’s non emergency call was really disturbing-that’s when I first started seeing signs of psychosis. And just like the Navy Yard shooter George also suffered from bouts of insomnia before he murdered Trayvon. I think he may have suffered other types abuse as well, based on witness number nine’s retelling events from her childhood with George. So basically, George’s parents totally screwed him up and then when they cut off all ties with George when they could no longer deal with him and left him for the rest of society to deal with. Gladys and Robert Zimmerman sr were way worse parents than Tracy and Sabrina.

  33. Judy75201 says:

    Lake Mary PD has decided to attempt to get the iPad vid of the altercation. (I thought it had already been decided, but maybe Hudson didn’t really want to retrieve it before, and has been over-ruled?)


    • Kate says:

      Can’t this video help the DOJ is they decide to pursue hate crime charges?

      • Kate says:

        Maybe not. I was just curious.

      • lurker says:

        I don’t see how.

      • Boyd says:

        No. They don’t want what’s on the video 5% chance of retrieval. ha ha ha. Like how did Fogen rip the chip in half? ha ha ha.

        Get Apple’s help.

        And These Dean’s like Fogen making fools out of them. That’s their problem. If someone breaks in the house on his behalf. too bad suckers, he’s all yours. You did not want to press charges, remember?

        BTW: I go by Shellie’s actions not her words. Let’s see how much she makes on the books and interviews.

    • lurker says:

      Maybe that was the point of the Lauer interview–to try to goose that process along. I thought they had already sent it to be analyzed.

  34. Judy75201 says:

    Christi O’Connor was supposed to update her “kel-tec shotgun & knife” post yesterday afternoon. She now has a note that says, “Note: Needing a confirmation from a police department that is not responding. Will post this story today, however. Thanks for your patience.”


  35. MDH says:

    Shellie needs to stop being mealy mouthed.

    She sat there like a potted plant and let the Zimmerman’s float that lie about sweet George fixing dinner and the mentoring of virtual black children.

    Maybe I would respect her, if she was honest and told us that all the lies told by everybody associated with Zimmerman are what denied Trayvon justice in that it poisoned the Jury against him.

    In this society we all have a duty to do what is right,

    To say she is sorry about the Martin’s loss is self serving and insulting.

    She does not give a shit about him.

    That is not hate, it is the truth.

    • Kate says:

      LOL!!! “virtual black children”

    • Judy75201 says:

      I think she is on the path of doing just that; revealing what she knows or suspects.

      • Mojo says:

        Agree. Give her a chance and soon she will reveal everything she knows. Then we’ll hear things revealed from Dr. Bao. Then maybe Serino grows some balls and reveals what he knows. And so on… One can be hopeful.

        • Judy75201 says:

          Indeed, one can be hopeful. 🙂

        • roderick2012 says:

          Agree. Give her a chance and soon she will reveal everything she knows.

          The problem is that Shellie is an admitted perjurer and she’s been caught in several contradictions just in her most recent interview so she has very little credibility which dashes all hopes that she would be a witness for the DOJ in a case against Piglet.

    • sparger says:

      They never ask Shelie the right questions. I have not seen one interview when they ask her about the mentoring. The mainstream media is useless. There is no investigative reporting anymore. The prosecution should have called Shellie to the stand and asked her where she was the night in question and if George ever mentored kids. They knew the answer and they never even called her to the stand.

      • Kate says:

        I thought she did not have to take the stand against her husband or speak on things surround their relationship. Some spouse privilege thing. The person they should have called to the stand was Jeremy Lauer. Anyway, it is now apparent the prosecution had no intention of really trying this case.

  36. Mojo says:

    I agree wholeheartedly Professor. I hold out belief that Shellie is going to be the first of the Fogdoits to develop a conscience and spills the beans on Fat Ass and reveals him to the world to be the piece of shit cowardly murderer we all know he is.

  37. jm says:

    For the record I don’t HATE anyone, including ShelLIE. She disgusts me trying to shimmy from the truth and her role in getting GZ acquitted by showing up in court in support of him and then try to double talk her way out of direct questions asked of her.

    I trust karma is at ShelLIE’s door right about now and will stay with her for a long, long time. Hatred is such a waste of time when you know karma will take care of people who have done bad things or stood by and allowed others to do evil and by their silence (as Judge Lester said, sitting like a “potted plant”) they are endorsing the person who has shown evil/bad behavior.

    • Kate says:

      After the trial I was out of emotion regarding this case. I was spent. At this point it is like a 3 ring circus to me. There is so much back and forth and they continue to put themselves in the spotlight for people to talk about them. The brother can’t get enough either. He’s always got to put his 2 cents in and tweet some ridiculous nonsense. These people’s parents must be so proud.

      • Judy75201 says:

        JR, I am glad to report, has significantly slowed his tweeting. He’s an absurd human.

        • Kate says:

          A miracle LOL Thank goodness. I think the last round of criticism I saw on the social networks of what he said probably did it. They made him into a MEME LOL!! It was hilarious. Sometimes your words can really make you look stupid. Happens to me quite often. lol

  38. The one thing I would like to know from Shellie is what happened the night she left her husband.
    I believe Z threatened her with a gun. I don’t think a woman would leave her home unless there was a serious threat.
    Maybe she will tell someday, maybe not.

    • lurker says:

      Maybe that was the night that he insisted that she go back to the grocery story and return all the groceries she had just bought.

      • jm says:

        LOL remember ShelLIE told the court under oath she never saw GZ angry?

        Which ShelLIE are we to believe?

        • Kate says:

          If she did say that, then that’s an excellent point. You are perceptive jm.

          • jm says:

            It’s in the transcript at the bond hearing where ShelLIE testified in response to BDLR question.

            DE LA RIONDA: And I gather my follow-up question regarding that is have you ever seen him angry or do you think he has — let me ask first thing. Have you ever seen him angry?

            S. ZIMMERMAN: No, I haven’t.

            DE LA RIONDA: You don’t think he has anger management problems?

            S. ZIMMERMAN: No, I do not.

            DE LA RIONDA: No further question.


          • Two sides to a story says:

            It’s no surprise that Shellie, the Fogen family, and their friends would say whatever was necessary to acquit Fogen.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @two sides who says

            It’s no surprise that Shellie, the Fogen family, and their friends would say whatever was necessary to acquit Fogen.

            the fact that friends and family supported GZ up to and including the farce of a trial is hardly shocking on a number of levels. at the base level — it is what the majority of close friends and family do, it is nothing out of the ordinary in any way, i suspect that each and every one of us would do the same and i do not hold that against anybody.

            what i can criticize is the promotion of racism as GZ’s brother and father espoused, for which they make no apologies. i can criticize his wife for perjuring herself in a court of law, but she has plead guilty and is making amends. having done so puts her in an obviously precarious situation in terms of access to protection by the authorities from the murderous husband she is attempting to divorce.

            what is even more interesting is that gz has not just lost the support of his wife and her family, but also the donnelleys. he seems to have earned the wrath of his attorney (o’mara’s advice ‘pay me’ and refusing to take on more of gz’s legal battles). one wonders how many more supporters will come forward with their regrets. it’s obvious that he used and manipulated relationships when it suited him and discarded them when they were no longer needed. we know that is his MO, but i think some that stood up for him were genuinely fooled into doing so.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            I find it genuinely puzzling that some friends were fooled by any of the Fogens. Sr’s book is repugnant, and Jr’s dallying with the righwing nut fringe is too. Perhaps like Shellie, the ones who thought they knew him best really knew him least.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Bonnie … I’d like to know, too. Clearly the marriage was shaky, if for no other reason than financial pressures — eviction on the horizon, etc. Details on that night could shed much light the run-up to stalking, attacking and killing Trayvon.

    • jm says:

      If GZ threatened ShelLIE with a gun, she should have no doubt he murdered Trayvon. But ShelLIE believes the “evidence” and that the jurors got it right to set GZ free and the “evidence” justified the killing of the black teen.

      ShelLIE will never tell the truth because it means she has lied even more than what we know now.

      • Kate says:

        She is basically telling the people, through the media, absolutely nothing. It’s all round robin BS. Tactically being evasive and brief with no real explanations about anything. Like I said she has an agenda. Whoever believes this garbage would be the Shellie Zimmerman to George Zimmerman.

  39. Kate says:

    Let us not forget in the “prison calls” that she and the killer mocked the protesters. Remember she told him she was watching him or them on TV. The killer mockingly says “I got my hoodie on” and she laughs. Yeah people, you can’t tell me she did not know this man. She was implicit in aiding to hide money because they tried to gouge taxpayers and leave them with the bill so they could pocket that donated blood money. She is implicit now in hiding who he really is as to not implicate herself as a racist. She has also been in altercations with him, hence the reason she left that night or the night before, as she claims, to go to her father’s house. She has seen him like this, I am sure of it. However, I think what she didn’t expect is that he would leave her holding the bag. He would not be there to support her and hold her hand the way she did his. I think what she wasn’t expecting is that he would take off with his new found “fame and freedom” and hit the road, as she says “without her”.
    What I think happened is that the limelight exacerbated these characteristics. He is now over the top where as before he was just a quiet narcissist sociopath profiling young African American men in the neighborhood. She knew who he is/was and people should not think otherwise.

    • Kate says:

      Someone was right in saying she is a woman scorned. She could have quietly filed for divorce, served her probation and quietly waited for the settlement funds to come in. Instead, she is circulating on all the stations to give “her side” of the story. For what? What is her motive? TV show? Book deal? or maybe a theme park in her honor? If she says she believes her spouse and he did nothing wrong, what is she up to and why does she feel she needs to tell everyone about it.

    • So what?

      She is what she is.

      Nothing you say is going to change her.

      • Kate says:

        True. But it isn’t a so what. You posted a discussion about her earlier and I am giving my statement on what I think. If it were so what Professor why post anything on it at all if you did not want people to discuss it.

      • Kate says:

        And the people who are upset with her are who they are, as you so eloquently stated, and did you think something you said was going to change their views on her or how they feel? Just as you say nothing I say is going to change her, nothing she says is going to redeem her and nothing she says is going to bring this dead child back from the grave. Seems somewhat nonchalant of you.

        • Trained Observer says:

          Nonchalant of who? …. Amazing.

        • jm says:

          Kate we are losing the battle of expressing our views of ShelLIE and her motivations at this point.

          For the record, I would never have discussed ShelLIE if she was not a topic on the Professor’s blog. I did not even know she appeared on The Today Show had it not been for this blog. I expressed what I felt was double talk from her in the interview and I have been accused of being hateful, a troll and “stalking” a poster who feels anything ShelLIE has done is because she is a “victim” of abuse. I am betting lots of people in prison right now are “victims” of abuse, male and female.

          • crazy1946 says:

            Kate & jm, While in a democracy you have the right to hold and express your opinion, you must remember that this is not a democracy, it is in fact the blog belonging to Professor Leatherman, and is in effect his home. We are (were?) simply invited guests, and as such we are obligated to abide by his rules of the house. Perhaps it would be wise to either drop the subject or change the subject lest one choses to annoy their host. The Professor is a good man and did a lot of good during the trial of George Zimmerman, and despite the (at least in our eyes) a wrong verdict, he did at least make the effort, and for that we owe a large measure of respect…. It would be good of all to honor his wishes in this matter… Y’all have a great afternoon…. Back to the safety of my hole under the rock….

          • jm says:

            Thanks for your advice crazy1946. I deferred to the professor and have stated that.

            I remain confused as to what the Professor hoped for on the ShelLIE Wavering topic but as you said it is his right to set the rules, we are guests, and if it turns out he did not want criticism of ShelLIE I will leave the posts to those who find her sincere or can understand why she did what she did.

            I’m not headed for a rock like you but I won’t be commenting on the Zimmermans because I have nothing good to say about any of them.

          • Mojo says:

            The problem seems to be that we have so many in here vilifying her. And anyone who shares a post that’s viewed as “defending” Shellie is followed up with a “How could you?” post of those that are bagging on her over and over.

            I’m not praising or defending her past actions. I believe her current actions however, are the beginning of the undoing of George Zimmerman and that she’s the first domino that pushes all the others to follow. I’m hopeful that the truth of George Zimmerman murdering Trayvon Martin will eventually be revealed and that Shellie is the one that will get the ball rolling.

          • Me too.

            I’m hopeful, but not betting the ranch.

            I been around the block more than a few times and I spent 30 years in the criminal justice sewer.

            No matter how bad Shellie may be, she is not the root of all evil.

          • Malisha says:

            Shellie’s not the root of all evil but she is a branch. Just not in bloom at this moment.

    • lurker says:

      Kate–I still gotta point out the power of denial. I recall once being in a situation in which a counselor patiently explained to someone who believed her childhood was not violent, even though her father, when angry, often got out a gun and waved it about–because they all knew he wouldn’t really fire it. The counselor simply bluntly, but gently stated that waving a gun about is an act of violence. People who grow up, or live, in traumatic situations lose their ability to judge what is what. That may have contributed to Shellie’s awkwardness in the confrontation at the house. And her statement that she doesn’t know what he is capable of.

      We have to regard her as someone in the process of relearning what is and what is not appropriate.

      And her current economic situation seems to have thrust her back into her own family–which may well be fairly limited in their own objectivity. The family member who posts on the Treehouse stated that Shellie’s mom doesn’t use illegal drugs. That puts a fine point on the reality that based on her DUI, she is very likely abusing legal drugs.

      • Kate says:

        Ok but someone in the process of “learning” doesn’t make the rounds to the TV stations. What can she say that would do her any good?? Look at what has happened now? No one had anything to really say about her. She stood by her man and tried to cover up money for him. Ok. It was done. Over with but then she is making rounds through the media and people actually loathe her. Like I said I don’t hate the woman, in fact, I never really gave her much thought until people started talking about her and she began making the media rounds.

        • lurker says:

          I have no idea why she is giving interviews, but it may well be that her motive is to clear her image or respond to things that are being said. It looked like the recent interview intended to explain why she “changed her story,” or declined to press charges.

          But, yes, people in the process of learning continue to have lives to live. A lot of recovery programs advise against making critical decisions during the first year of recovery. This is not always possible and sometimes not even wise (such as a wife fleeing an abusive relationship).

          I have no doubt that gz abused Shellie–emotionally if not physically. The fact that she bears the scars and signs of that abuse (including her defense of her man) is scarcely a surprise, nor something that I am willing to condemn her for at this point.

          • Mojo says:

            Perhaps Shellie is being sought out by media outlets rather than the other way around? And they’re offering her money for an interview? Why wouldn’t she give an interview then?

          • lurker says:

            I don’t think that she has yet appeared on any shows that pay for interviews. But, if she gets an overnight trip to NYC for the interview, I can see where that would be a temptation.

          • Trained Observer says:

            The Big 3 networks don’t pay for interviews. … But round-trip air to NYC, upscale lodging and meals, limo rides, make-up done by a pro, meeting Matt, schmoozing with other staffers … all that can be a heady experience.

            I doubt that Kelly Sims finds such a trek north unappealing either, for that matter. For his purposes, it gets at least some of his client’s story out, and presumably helps set the stage for a more respectable image to facilitate life after Fogen. Plus, the appearance gives him national exposure, a likely boost for his career, and a golden opportunity to make him feel like a player.

            Face it, viewers care more about this than they do about news that a U.S. president and leader of Iran have connected one-on-one by phone for the first time since 1979.

        • Dave says:

          I’m convinced that Shellie is doing the media trip at the behest of her attorney for reasons that I can’t explain. All of her statements and answers sound too carefully worded and rehearsed for me to believe that they are spontaneous.

          • jm says:

            Dave: “I’m convinced that Shellie is doing the media trip at the behest of her attorney for reasons that I can’t explain.”

            Look for the book authored by ShelLIE.

    • I missed a lot of the development in 2012. So I’m doing a lot of catch-up work. The more research I do, I realize that the facts of the case were fabricated to make George’s actions legal and I’m so sick about it I don’t know what to do. The State must’ve allocated a lot of resources and time to dismantle the case against Zimmerman. I want to know how could a group of adults sworn to protect Trayvon Mart in life and in death set their minds to acquit his murderer, and slept at night? Furthermore Shelly Zimmerman is so fake. Seeing now that she mocked those mourning Trayvon’s death, that woman deserves whatever George did and will do to her. The pain her husband inflicted on this nation can’t even be expressed in words(at least not by me).

  40. crazy1946 says:

    Note to myself: Try to not make a negative comment about Mrs. George Zimmerman, aka Shelly Zimmerman, aka Shel-Lie Zimmerman… Only make positive comments about her instead. Remember a leopard changes it spots as needed to lure its victims into the trap… Positive comment, Mrs. Zimmerman looks good in her new spots….

    • Judy75201 says:

      That’s clearly not the point of Fred’s post.

      • crazy1946 says:

        Judy75201, “It does get tiring reading the same screeching posts over & over, with mutual-admiration responses over & over. Once is enough to get your message across.
        I support what I (currently) see as Shellie’s evolution.”

        No disrespect intended, however the same could be said about the new supporters of Mrs. George Zimmerman. I suppose that the new consensus amongst those who now support her is that the people who have no love for her or her prior acts are to now to just sit down and shut up? You guys win, I will attempt to not say anything negative about her on this site in the future…. are we still allowed to say anything negative about George Zimmerman or are we required to only say nice things about him as well? Never mind, it would seem the best thing to do is simply not attempt to disclose ones feelings about the individuals involved in the murder of Trayvon Martin, perhaps simply going back into the lurk mode is the simplest way to resolve the issue and rid you of my opinion…. Have a wonderful afternoon….

        • jm says:

          “You guys win, I will attempt to not say anything negative about her on this site in the future…. are we still allowed to say anything negative about George Zimmerman or are we required to only say nice things about him as well?”

          Well GZ and ShelLIE are both just “victims” and “products of their environment” aren’t they? Maybe they both just can’t help themselves. GZ obviously has mental issues just like ShelLIE.

          Two peas in a pod just trying to get through life. 🙂

          Peace and love to all.

          • Well GZ and ShelLIE are both just “victims” and “products of their environment” aren’t they? Maybe they both just can’t help themselves. GZ obviously has mental issues just like ShelLIE.

            I did not say that. Do not put words in my mouth.

            I said,

            Maybe Shellie Zimmerman is a sympathetic human being slowly emerging from a fog of abuse or maybe she is a grifter attempting to even up the score with a grifter husband who dumped her. Maybe she is a mixture of both. Regardless what we believe, the truth will be revealed as we watch from afar.

            Shellie is at a crossroad in her life and we can only watch as she chooses what to do.

            She is what she is and she will be whatever she decides to be.

            Whatever choice she makes for whatever reason should have little or no impact on our lives.

            Instead of shrieking at her, why not thank her for exposing something in us that we may need to own and decide to change?

          • jm says:

            Professor I am not quoting you nor putting words in your mouth.

            I am saying if ShelLIE is a “victim” or a “product of her environment” as other posters seem to feel, then so is GZ. He was on meds. He had attention deficit disorder. He was seeing a psychologist. His mother reportedly beat him while his father stood by and allowed it according to Osterman.

            So if we are not to hate or condemn ShelLIE then maybe everyone involved should get a pass.

          • I did not say that anyone should get a pass.

            I am saying that the Shellie hate fest changes nothing.

            I am sick of it.

          • jm says:

            “I am saying that the Shellie hate fest changes nothing.”

            No hate fest changes anything. That includes hate fest for GZ.

            Professor I will defer to your wishes but want to remind you that by opening the topic of ShelLIE, I thought you wanted commentary on her “wavering” and taking it a step further whether we believed she was sincere or was motivated by something else other than her conscience.


          • lurker says:

            jm–I would tend to agree that gz is a product of his environment. I do believe that he was most likely abused as a child and has been protected from the consequences of his actions for quite some time as an adult.

            But, there are some critical differences at this point. One is that Shellie seems to be willing to admit to her wrong-doing. Not only did she plead guilty to perjury, but she has refused to make excuses for why she made the choices that she did. That, in and of itself is a worthy action–even if she never moves any further along.

            George, on the other hand, has not only never admitted responsibility for anything, he has a long history of blaming the whole world for each and every misdeed of which he has ever been accused.

            They are both steeped in denial about many things (yes–I believe that George is the biggest victim of his own cons–he truly believes himself to have had no choice). But I see in Shellie not only that trademark symptom of abuse, but also the beginning of an awareness.

    • Your response is invalid because you mischaracterized what I said.

      • Kate says:

        Yeah, I don’t think the Professor meant it quite that way.

      • crazy1946 says:

        Professor, This is your site, and I am simply a visitor in you home here, so out of respect for you and your home, I will simply wish you a good afternoon and go back into quiet mode….

      • Mary Davis says:

        Ok Professor. So you are sick of people hating on Shellie. Well, it seems this site has gotten to be like a clan. This will be my last post and I will not be reading here anymore. I refuse to allow anyone to dictate to me how I think.

        Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate Shellie, but no one and I mean no one will ever get me to think and react the way THEY want me to think and react. BTW I still respect you and Crane and everyone on this blog. Have a good life.

        • Mojo says:


        • bettykath says:

          Mary, no one is telling you what to think or react. I think what the professor is pointing out is that posts expressing hatred or rage are not helpful. Think hate and rage if you want, just don’t make posts reflecting that hate and rage. It’s his site so his rules.

          Suggestion: A great antidote is to put some of your energy expressed as hate, rage or whatever else you may feel to work as Sybrina has by working to change the SYG law, or supporting the Trayvon foundation, or some other positive action. I repeat, this is suggestion, not a mandate.

        • Oh no Mary! I wish this wasn’t so. I am sorry.

        • Mary,

          You are free to think anything you desire and react any way you want. You are mistaken, if you believe I am on Shellie’s side. She has to prove herself and she has a lot to prove in order to get there.

          I doubt you and I disagree about that.

          All I am saying is give her a chance to prove herself.

          The obsession some folks have with beating and beating on her offends me.

          I don’t like bullies.

          Never have.

          Never will.

          You are welcome to stay and I hope you will reconsider your decision to leave.

          I think it would be ironic if this site blew up because some people decided that I and some others do not hate Shellie Zimmerman enough.

          That would be too bizarre for words.

          And the Treehouse would love it.

          • Frederick here’s the deal. We can’t let this case quietly disappear, back in the corners of our minds. There are dangerous people(some have actually threatened me) that say sickening things in regards Trayvon’s death. They will post memes of Trayvon hanging, or of him getting shot, etc. In addition to this there are thousands out there proclaim boldy that they too, will kill a “Trayvon Martin” if given the chance. I see this evidence in the murder of Darius Simmons, and the attempted murder of D.J Maiden(8). America should’ve been sending a message that it is not open season on young black males in this country. Unfortunately, nobody got that message because Zimmerman was acquitted. So what do we do now? Dismantle the whole damn establishment. Seriously. The justice system in Florida needs to be handled the same way courts that refused to desegregate during the Civil Rights era were-with a strong hand. Petition drives are the way to do it these days, which is fine with me it’s easier on my hip(unless I sit at the computer desk for prolonged periods of time). Anywhoo…We have to petition to have the authors of this carefully scripted farce, who hold the laws of this nation in such contempt that they freed a murdering psychopath- rather than validate Trayvon Martin’s life held as much value as a white persons, responsible for their actions.

          • We can’t let this case quietly disappear, back in the corners of our minds.

            I do not intend to forget Trayvon and given psycho George’s continuing obnoxious stupidity and Michael Dunn’s trial for the murder of Brandon Davis early next year, there is little chance America will forget.

            If they do, we will be here to remind them.

          • fauxmccoy says:


          • Two sides to a story says:


    • Trained Observer says:

      Crazy, I don’t think we need to be cheerleaders for the hopefully soon to be ex-Mrs. Fogen. But if she’s going to make a turn for the better, there needs to be a fair assessment of her efforts.

      • bettykath says:

        TO, why do we need to assess Shellie’s efforts?

        • Malisha says:

          We don’t need to — but she has chosen to deliberately make herself “NEWS.” It’s OK to comment on the news and she knows it. Like when B-29 decided to make herself “NEWS.”

          That’s part of it. Shellie wanted that camera on her; she got it.

          • All I know is the world is blowing up and this blog is obsessed with arguing about whether Shellie Zimmerman is really trying to turn her life around.

            She is either going to turn it around or she isn’t and our arguing over whether she will or not is not going to change anything.

        • Trained Observer says:

          bettykath — Because sooner or later it’s likely info from her will be revealed that helps connect-the-dots on what happened leading up to Trayvon’s murder, along with what transpired during the
          immediate aftermath. Will she be candid and accurate? Don’t know. But an assessment is in order to properly weigh anything she says.

    • George kicked her to the curb and now she’s come crawling back to the public for sympathy. No Mam!

  41. ay2z says:

    On an up note, Shellie was quick and sure as she answered the question about racial profiling, a ready and confident answer. Which on the face of it, seems to be truthful except it’s her ‘opinion’ and she is saying at the same time, she doesn’t know this person at all.

    Should her husband win his suit against NBC, his wife will get her share if the divorce has not yet gone through, and may get a benefit if the divorce settlement allows.

    Bright side is, that should the killer win his suit against NBC, his wife, who backed him, even lied for him, will take a good share of what the lawyers leave behind, and the killer will be left with a lot less payout.

    No rush to publish maybe, as long as she is able to stay clear of him. He might decide to take her share away from her in a violent manner.

  42. roderick2012 says:

    I have no hate or rage against Shellie, but I don’t like people who want to play me for a fool because it assumes two things 1) Shellie believes that she’s smarter than everyone else 2) that I am stupid.

    I don’t care what happens to Shellie or Piglet because it won’t be good and both of them will get their karma sooner than later.

  43. ay2z says:

    Climate change headline this morning, conclusion that global warming is 95% human caused. Saw only the headline in the morning’s emai so far.

    Will post the link.

  44. SoulSistaWoo says:

    I continue to pray for the Misery and Downfall of EVERY SINGLE PERSON Involved in the racist conspiracy disguised as the trial of George Zimmerman.

    My ENTIRE mindset has been irreversibly shaken after this Shakespearian tragedy disguised as a trial. I can NEVER forgive a single person involved for their hatred and blatant disrespect shown towards Trayvon Martin and his family….

    As long as Trayvon Martin legacy is that of a thug, drug addicted violent person… AS long as the record remains unchanged in the United States courts that Trayvon Martin caused his own death… I pray HARD for their continued misery and eventual destruction.

  45. Kate says:

    I think it is healthy for people to get their feelings out. It does nothing for anyone to hold their emotions in and let it eat them up. How it is done is a different animal. Emotions run high in a lot of cases. I think people should be enraged by the things we are seeing culminating in our society that have transferred over to a legal system that is now corrupt, dysfunctional and damaged. I personally do not hate this woman, but I do not believe her and I have said why. I understand that is her spouse and she will stick by him for whatever reasons, but there is no way she did not know this man. Perhaps she didn’t know about the molestation of his cousin, but other than that I am sure she knew his views and thoughts about certain groups of people. In this interview, she contradicts herself. She says she has doubts but yet says she believes the evidence and that her spouse did not profile Trayvon Martin. HUH? But didn’t she just say the blinders had come off? Perhaps she just doesn’t care. Perhaps, whatever reason he killed that boy is none of her concern. But then her and her father are accosted and she goes on a national television campaign spree instead of filing charges? She’s playing Tammy Wynette Stand By Your Man even with the blinders off? I suppose I can understand why people are upset. She is obviously a character with motives yet unknown and still seems slow to get a clue.

    • Kate says:

      On another note, Marissa Alexander has been granted a new trial, I hope she is allowed a different judge or even a change of venue. Would seem fruitless to have the same people try her again only to deny her, again. The judge, no surprise here, denies any wrong doing. Blame someone or something else. Shocker. The system is corrupt but probably none more corrupt than the State of Florida. We need to ban together to help out another young man in the same position, his name is Michael Giles. He claims stand your ground after being attacked. The attacker admitted to being the one that began the altercation; however, that did not sway the courts or the judge and they gave this US Airmen a 25 year mandatory minimum. The judge in that case was singing the same song. There was absolutely nothing he could have done and that he absolutely had to impose the minimum penalty. What they are doing in that state and many others is unlawful. Sworn officers of the courts engaged in racial injustice is appalling. Nowhere in this country should the courts be biased towards any groups or individuals. I feel the courts are using their leverage to legally lynch people of color. It is high time we stood up and push the US govt to change this. There can be no peace when justice, the one place that should be blind, has an agenda.

      • lurker says:

        Perhaps the call to enforce the law equally will lead to a movement to roll back SYG.

        Clearly the supporters of SYG suffer from a myopic misapperception that they are the good guys and this law allows them free rein to take out bad guys. As they begin to discover that it is their actions, rather than some status granted at birth, that make them either good or bad guys, they may become more willing to toss the whole thing.

        • Judy75201 says:

          They also can’t conceive that horrific accidents happen with guns, and that they themselves may be responsible, or that they themselves might get angry and murder someone in the heat of the moment. Guns make it entirely too easy to kill, almost as easy as a thought. Imagine if thoughts could kill–I’d be on death row myself.

          • lurker says:

            There has actually been some research into the tendancy of folks who are armed to enter into situations that pose increased levels of risk. Actual gun research is hard to come by–really have to bypass google and go directly to scientific journal search engines, thanks the successful efforts of the NRA to get their junk-science articles to rise to the top of google searches.

          • Judy75201 says:

            @lurker. Thanks for the google tip.

      • Yeah, I agree. Florida is really strange in ways. They’ve got these really over the top sentences for things like brandishing or firing, that the courts turn around and apply to some of the people some of the time. Others, however can brandish, fire and even kill. Florida Courts seem to just pick and choose at their leisure and without logic, who to lock up forever, and it looks to me like it’s people of color. Watch this next freak show, Michael Dunn, go free. (after killing Jordan Davis)

  46. texad says:

    I so agree, Professor. Hate is never a solution that solves anything. History will show Shellie Zimmerman to be a tragic figure. As a woman and a wife she seemingly made all the wrong decisions. She will pay for them. In contrast, the mother of the teen her husband murdered has been nothing but dignified in this whole tragedy. Sybrina Fulton has spoken nothing but words of peace and reconciliation.

    Speaking of choosing love over hate, another woman whose life was an example of love died two nights ago. Evelyn Lowery. Married to her husband (Rev. Joseph Lowery) for almost 70 years. Lived thru the worst of the hate filled violence in America. Supported her husband in every way, while also implementing her visions for women and children. She leaves a legacy to be proud of because she chose love over hate.

    And as a great man of peace said:
    Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. – Martin Luther King, Jr.

    Peace. And Power.

    • lurker says:

      The comparison to the grace exhibited by the Martin/Fulton family is apt. I would also suggest that the comparison points out that our perception of “dysfunction” in families often rests on the superficial.

      O’Mara tried to go there when cross-examining Trayvon’s older brother–asking him when their dad moved out and trying to suggest the supposed ills of a single parent household and a revolving door of paternal mates. While those particulars may be true, Trayvon’s family displays a strong commitment to the raising of children to be upstanding and well-educated (recall that the reason Trayvon was in Sanford at all was in response to a demonstrated need and their belief that some extended time with his dad and away from other influences would be a good thing), as well as a strong belief and trust in God.

      These are things that I see only nominally in the two-parent Zimmerman and Dean families. In short, these families appear to be enablers (a dysfunction), and are riddled with the suggestion of abuses and addictions.

  47. Judy75201 says:

    I have much hate and rage for fogen, B37, and every other person I hold personally responsible for the horrific verdict in this matter (just admitting my defect here). I tend to vent those views on Twitter, and I hope to make a difference.

    It does get tiring reading the same screeching posts over & over, with mutual-admiration responses over & over. Once is enough to get your message across.

    I support what I (currently) see as Shellie’s evolution.

    • I agree, plus I could rant about our broken courts all day. Anyway, the concept of our defects is also addressed in the 12-step program, which, in many ways can be useful for everybody. None of us is perfect.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Judy, I agree with you on Mrs. Fogen’s apparent effort to pull herself out of the gutter, even though many of us aren’t sure about her sincerity, her motivations, or even her intelligence.

      Once the divorce is final and she’s no longer under apparently positive influence of Kelly Sims, will she fall back into associating with other scum like Fogen? (Stats indicate people often are attrected to personality types of their ex spouses.) We shall see.

      Meanwhile, the divorce machinations are of interest to many of us only because of who she’s divorcing, and a continued desire to see light shed on myriad mysteries of the murder case. Our desire to fill in blanks on all the unknowns is a continuation of seeking justice for Trayvon.

      Given her seedy family background, the lying friends she apparently has (like the Donnellys), and choices she’s made thus far, I’m a long way from dead certain she’ll make a succesful turn-around. Meanwhile, like you, I support what we currently see as her evolution into decency.

    • Shellie is just enjoying seeing him squirm because discarded her after he she was no longer the best he could get. She better make a disappearing act ,because rather she realizes it or not her life is in danger.

    • @Professor:

      Professor, I respect and love you especially for this blog and for reminding us not to let rage and anger overcome us. I know you mean every single word that you posted. I just want to post three of your paragraphs

      “””Have we not been taught to believe in redemption, rebirth, tolerance, love and forgiveness?

      Why not light a candle in your heart for her and offer a prayer that she makes the right choice?

      Are there not far more important matters than Shellie Zimmerman’s life decisions going on in the world that have real life consequences to each of us?”

      Professor, yes I was taught all of those things by my parents and in the church. I was raised in the church but came to the reality of the world and racism as I grew up and experienced discrimination first hand. Profeessor, black peple have been praying and singing and forgiving racists since slavery, and what we end up with is having dogs and water hoses set upon us, tossed in jail for having the nerve to want to enjoy the same civilrights that whites enjoyed! What we got was the ugly raacist caste system called Jim Crow shich told my mom and dad that they were not good enough to sit in the front of the bus, or use the front door of an establishment. What we got was a farce of a trial, that we saw this summer! We saw a boy who did nothing get denounced, called names, demonized, and his parents called the N word and also made fun of as well. They had to sit in that court, day by day and watch those racists demagogues LIE about TM.

      Professor, I don’t know about anyone else, but I am tired of practicing tolerance and forgiveness. I am ttired of singing, “We shall overcome.” We have not overcome. Yest their are more important matters than Shellie,and that is to make this world a better place for my own chidlren and to make sure that my own son does not end up like TM did!

  48. Bravo Professor! This post gets a donation out of my velcroed pockets!

  49. Judy75201 says:


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