What do you all think of Chief Bracknell’s emails about George Zimmerman

Friday, September 13, 2013

Good evening:

Lake Mary Police Chief Steve Bracknell has described George Zimmerman as a time bomb waiting to explode in Sandy-Hook fashion, which has been my impression for a long time.

Frankly, I will be surprised if he does not kill Shellie Zimmerman or her lawyer Kelly Sims. Even Mark O’Mara might be at risk.

Here is a link to the emails.

Here’s Trained Observer’s comment from a little earlier today incorporating an earlier comment by Bandit:

Finally a voice of reason from law enforcement. Here’s an MSNBC report via FreakoutNation:

Florida Sheriff: If I had the authority, I would consider revoking Zimmerman’s Firearm License

September 13, 2013
By Bandit

Stating he has serious concerns about George Zimmerman’s actions, Police Chief Steve Bracknell said today that if the had the authority, he would consider revoking George Zimmerman’s firearm license, MSNBC reports. Bracknell is police chief in the city where Zimmerman resides.

Steve Bracknell, the chief of police in Lake Mary, said during a telephone interview with NBC News, “I’m a small-town police chief. If I had the authority to revoke his firearm license, I would certainly sit down and consider that.”

“Does anyone else except me see a pattern?” Bracknell added. “The word firearm keeps popping up.”

Although no gun was found on Zimmerman during the most recent incident this past Monday, Bracknell stated that Mr. Zimmerman did have a gun in his car.

In an email exchange reported by Think Progress, Chief Bracknell did tell a concerned citizen that Zimmerman had a gun in his car.

Bracknell wrote, “We did not have the authority to search his truck. He DID have a firearm in the truck. Having a firearm is not a violation of Florida law.”

Zimmerman’s former attorney previously stated on Monday that Mr. Zimmerman did have a gun.

The chief also wrote in response to the citizen’s suggestion that police in Florida were covering for Zimmerman, “REST ASSURED, the last thing on planet earth I want is ANY relationship with the Zimmermans. PERIOD.”

Bracknell also told NBC News he has “concerns” about Zimmerman. “I think a lot of people do,” Bracknell said.

Lake Mary resident Santiago Rodriguez, upset that police failed to file charges, fired off a strongly worded email – criticizing the department and Zimmerman.

Rodriguez calls Zimmerman a “ticking time bomb” and says he’s another “Sandy Hook” waiting to happen… apparently comparing him to someone capable of a mass shooting. In response to the email dated Sept 10th, 2013, Chief Steve Bracknell said “Your reference to Sandy Hook… I agree.”When contacted by the site for comment on his initial agreeance, Chief Bracknell distanced himself saying he was “referring to the fact that [Zimmerman] seems to be involved in incidents” involving firearms.

Charles P. Pierce at Esquire writes, “OK, that’s the least convincing “walk back” I’ve ever read. The guy wrote, “Sandy Hook.” The chief said, specifically, “Sandy Hook…I agree,” but now he says that he was agreeing with something else? Nope. Dog won’t hunt. Which is not to say that Crimebuster George isn’t “involved in incidents involving firearms.” He’s certainly been that.”

Earlier this week, there were doubts regarding whether Chief Bracknell actually said these things. Well, not any longer because he has basically confirmed them.

Your thoughts?

190 Responses to What do you all think of Chief Bracknell’s emails about George Zimmerman

  1. Judy75201 says:

    I think Sims advised Shellie/Dad not to press the matter because it could cause unforeseeable problems for her probation-wise.

    • colin black says:

      There was no reason for them to be in the exact same vicinity at the same time unless it was pre arranged by txt or phone . conversation.

      If they are going to be retreiveing property from Shellies Fathers home .

      Each simply lets the Father know what they want particularly fogggage as Shellie could pop round to her Pops place any time/

      So he phones states what he wants his soon to be ex Father in law bags it up for him leaves it on the front porch no problem /

      No drama..

      So the fact foggage was there his collosius freinf foggage likes because it has a slimming affect on him when there in the frame togerher.

      Shellie s present as well for no good reason than to antagonise an cause pre scripted dhrama.

      Its a free to view dowm market reality show.

      Not so much the Hills

      As in theases Hills someones gonnna die.

      Most probably George but the comparisons with Sandy Hook

      Are wrong he is more in the category of a Josh Powell type personality a control freak with uncontrollable anger /rage issues .

      Whom if an when his life begins to unravel will take down all whom his spitefull lizard type primitive part of the brain can inflict hurt greif an pain on.

      An if he feels he has to die he will not go into the dark quitelly or with dignity.

      He is the type that will take all an as many of his perceived distractors with him.

      An then if possible back out because he is a coward whom fears pain or harm upon his person.

      Like that coward ander llimpard the Norwegian who slaughtered people with bombs

      An then killed scores of young people like shooting fish in a barrel.

      He was on his cell as he could see the police comeing over to the island on boats

      He was talking to them negotiating his surrender whils they could still hear him shooting those innocent kids.

      He must have shot at least twenty more before the police reached him an he dropped his weapons an held up his hands.

      The first thing he shouted was don’t shoot Im unarmed.

      Thease are the type of cowards that the zimmermans of the world are

      Evil cretinous creatures whom the best part of them ran down there Mothers legs when they were born

      The afterbirth.

  2. willisnewton says:

    I think the chief of police of Lake Mary showed about as much professionalism as Sanford police chief Bill Lee did – as in, “not much.” These are small towns in Florida we are talking about. The phrase” not ready for prime time” comes to mind.

    This same level of poor performance was obvious in the missteps made by the SPD and the FDLE, for that matter. Bloggers know more about what happened the night of the killing than the prosecution did.

    • bettykath says:

      Oh, I think the prosecution knew. How else could they have framed the evidence so well as to guarantee an acquittal?

      I hope that all the negative publicity that fogen is getting and the big spotlight on him will help him to modify his behavior. But he may be too delusional as to his own invincibility to take heed.

  3. a2nite says:

    US. Senate to hold SYG hearing. SabrYna Fulton to give testimony…..

  4. colin black says:

    Deborah Moore

    Revised thought this my favourite Mary Magret

    I want a Hippopotimus for Christmas

    Dirty Chimmney Clues for Chimmney Flues…Brilliant,

  5. bettykath says:

    OT but might be good for discussion. Apple has a new iphone that has you identify yourself with your fingerprint, not a password. This article discusses the 5th amendment ramifications. Consider the efforts required to get into Trayvon’s phone. Consider that fogen had to provide written permission for his phone to be looked at.



    “Because the constitutional protection of the Fifth Amendment, which guarantees that “no person shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself,” may not apply when it comes to biometric-based fingerprints (things that reflect who we are) as opposed to memory-based passwords and PINs (things we need to know and remember).”

    • colin black says:

      It doesn’t apply if you sign your rights away.

      Most people especialy young people don’t bother to read the pages of small print when they down loas an app.

      Free music app click hear an the continues click click click.

      An you’ve basicly just signed your life away.

      You’ve agreed to let apple ipad or whomever owns the devise your using to moniter you.

      Where you go through gps what you listen to what you log on to when where an how often.

      If you are using an ipad or iphone right now.

      And you’ve down loaded free apps from them.

      An employee can look at a screen an know your exact location an whether you are on line or not.

      An if you are on line what you are viewing.

      And its worse they share this info with the government for a price its called DATA MINEING.

      And was the reason President Obama got elected as he hired 19 an 18 yr old super geeeks experts in IT Tech in star ups people now running twitter an other muti succesfull companys B Gates an other IT Mogulls have all this info on us an information is power.

      They don’t have to do cold calls on the phone forinstance an waist money an hours of labour.

      They know exactly whom to call whom to target..

  6. endlessummer76 says:

    Apologies if this has been posted previously, but Sybrina Fulton will testify before the US Senate on Tuesday:


    Quite a contrast in how fogen makes the news and how the Fulton/Martin family makes the news.

  7. colin black says:

    Frederick Leatherman says:

    September 15, 2013 at 12:57 am

    Scary true.

    I had not made that connection, but as soon as I read it, I knew you were right.

    I believe it may have been Madeline Albright who said something like, “What’s the point of having the most powerful military force in the world, if you don’t use it.”

    One could just as easily substitute an armed George Zimmerman for the US Government and its military in her statement to arrive at an eerily similar, although substantially scaled-down picture of the threat to public safety that GZ poses.

    GZ, of course, is significantly less focused about whom he will victimize and when he will do it.

    With the exception of Shellie, her lawyer and possibly Mark O’Meara, I lack sufficient information to identify potential targets. Instead, I see him cruising around hoping to find a situation involving another black male he can kill and get away with murder by using the SYG defense.



    That’s not how its going to go down.

    Just as if foggage had have been correctly convicted an incacersted he would have been a high value target for another inmate to take down/murder.

    Just for the kudous an Imfamy hero status he would receive in Jail.

    He is an even better target of opportunity as he is now roaming free on the range with the deer an antelope.

    I can fkn garentee you right at this moment there are more than one person .

    Of either sex an probably more AA but other ethnicitites plotting right now to take this fruit cake down.

    Think about it he is infamous known to always carry a weapon been known to use it against unarmed Child.

    He is a walking talking target with justifiable homicide written across his fore head .

    It couldn’t be more easy to provoke a person with anger issues whom is dumb as a rock into a confrontation an blow his asss to kingdom come.

    All the accrued infamy that foggage has imeadilty becomes shone onto his KILLER.

    An he or She would attain hero status an almost cult like acclaim if they played there cards right.

    May have to spend a few months in prison but what the heck.

    I bet any peter pan count they set up would make foggages one look like loose change.

    An the more foggage acts out in his ridicule ass look at me look at me am free shoveing himself in peoples faces

    An acts out his plastic gangster psudo immature image the easier an easier it gets for a not guilty verdict for whom ever puts an end to this khunt.

    An there be fame an riches down that a path so its not a matter of if,

    Only when an people tend to strike whilst the iron is white hot for best results

  8. colin black says:

    ay2z says:

    September 14, 2013 at 11:45 am

    Oh, and trust the Brits tabloids to get a photo and story of the blonde woman.




    To be accurate half an exposed nipple an half an aurolie .
    Besides there nothing that a big fat hungry cry baby like fogggage likes the sight of more than an exposed nipple.

    Oh an the British press was the article on page 3 per chance?

    • colin black says:

      She can dump him now that she has received the EXPOSURE she wanted.

      No sane woman would be with that slug for any other reason than that.

      She might not be ringing Oprah but Jeremy Kyle or J Springer are certaintys.

    • MichelleO says:

      “Friends admit they too feel, ‘hurt and used’ by Zimmerman who has cut all ties with those who supported him during his trial and embarked on a chaotic existence of run-ins with the law and allegations of infidelity. ”

      This is the way he has always been. But they defended him anyway.

    • ay2z says:

      Don’t know what page, but, but doubt it would be any closer to front than 3!

      The dailymail is a paper tabloid, isn’t it? Like The Mirror? After the juicy stories? That was my impression, but could be wrong.

      • colin black says:

        ay2z’@ I thought you were a fellow Brit or are you Canadian

        Anyhoo it was a joke all British redtops or most have a topless model on Page 3

        There called

        WAIT FOR IT .

        Page Three Girls and are as British as tea an muffins.

        Although Muffin the Mule was made Illeagal in recent beastialty laws.


        • ay2z says:

          lol! I was thinking ‘the Mirror’ type tabs when I saw the article. Now I get it!! Thanks, completely over my head!

          The Mirror was notorious for some time digging up scandals, didn’t know about page 3.

          Page 3 Girls… lol. Any Page 3 guys??

  9. colin black says:

    And IPads, and women,

    And foggage was trying to leave Shellie with a few bits of broken Glass.

    So he tried to shatter the ipad not realiseing its not made of glass.

    Shellie can amend that statement to he left me with a few bits of broken ipad.

  10. MichelleO says:

    PROFESSOR: It took me awhile to get it; but the police chief is most definitely setting a precedent in sending this message to Fogan. He’s basically putting him on notice that he can expect no preferential treatment like he did in Sanford, Florida, and that he best get his silly ass out of Lake Mary.

  11. Kate says:

    Why am I up!

  12. groans says:

    I’m not impressed by the police chief’s email. I mean, it sounds nice and all. But it could also bring the department’s objectivity under attack if it ever does bring charges against CAC, which causes me concern. At the same time, it portrays the LMPD as so weak and helpless, which strikes me as an explicit “cop-out” (pun intended) – like, “Golly, gee … we know this guy is dangerous as hell, but WE can’t do a darned thing about it.”

    Well, I think they could do something about it. It looks to me like CAC’s destruction of the iPad, alone, is a felony in Florida – and CAC could/should be charged and prosecuted for it. So the police chief sounds a bit disingenuous – and, therefore, suspicious – to me.

    A security camera captured CAC destroying the iPad on video, and CAC admitted doing it. So CAC could / should be charged and prosecuted for that, which could be a felony of either the 3rd degree or the 2nd degree. See Florida Statutes Section 815.06 – Offenses against computer users:


    • Couple problems. Shellie and her dad said they did not want him to be charged and he probably would claim that he took the iPad away from her and destroyed it because she had used it as a weapon to assault him.

      All of us here recognize that’s yet another bullshit story, but a prosecutor might be reluctant to prosecute a he-said, she-said case without strong independent evidence backing up Shellie’s description of what happened. Her father’s corroboration might not be sufficiently independent, since he is her father, and the effect of her perjury admission does not help her credibility.

      I think many prosecutors might decline to prosecute because they doubt they could prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.

      I don’t believe very many prosecutors would want to risk political vilification by the right wing hate machine for prosecuting GZ unless they are certain they can win.

      No doubt that GZ is aware that he is a hero to many people and that is part of the reason why he feels invincible.

      So, here we sit on a fence watching this slow motion train wreck unfold into another probable shooting and another death of an innocent person.


    • Dave says:

      It was a minor domestic disturbance that resulted in no serious injuries and relatively minor property damage. If it didn’t involve GZ no one would pay any attention to it. The victims don’t want to cooperate in a prosecution. Presumably Shellie and her dad just want to get her out of a bad marriage with minimal hassle and Chief Bracknell just wants to be rid of the Zimmermans who have no doubt been a major pain in the ass and a significant drain on the resources of his small police force for the last year.

      Sure, we’d like to see GZ facing charges–even minor ones–but it just isn’t going to happen here.

      • Paleeze, this couple loves these dramatically charged confrontations, bet they fought that way the night before he murdered that child.

        My experience is that even if you separate two people from that dynamic, unless there is a real effort to change, they will just find replacement people so they can replay their cycle.

        As this episode fades, they’re unconscious self is conjuring up the next burst….

        As an incredulous fellow citizen bystander who is still haunted by that young child’s final moments, my soul must not glee in schadenfreude at what comes their way.

        “Justice, not Vengeance” Simon Wiesenthal

      • Meant my comments for the general forum Dave. Agree completely with your comments sir!

      • Judy75201 says:

        I don’t think it’s minor because I believe he did have that gun strapped to him and that he did display posturing behavior in reference to it. That is an implied threat, and I think it matters.

  13. Kate says:

    I am very curious as to the good Dr.’s claims that Martin was not on top of the murderer when he was shot. Maybe we can all take some guesses as to what is going to come out. Do tell Dr. Bao.

    My guess is that the blood pooled in a certain way. If the kid had been leaning over the killer when he was shot then the blood would have pooled in the anterior(front) tissues of his chest cavity. If there is pooling towards the posterior(back) of the chest cavity that would indicate he was on his back, long enough for the blood to seep into the tissues causing bruising and swelling. If there is pooling of blood towards the diaphragm or abdomen then that would suggest they were standing. The kid’s heart probably went into an arrhythmia and would not have been able to adequately pump blood causing the blood to pool in those areas, depending on how long he was in the position, causing bruising and swelling.

    Anyone have any thoughts on what he may reveal?

    • groans says:

      I think Dr. Bao’s opinion about that is based on the findings reflected in his autopsy report.

      • Kate says:

        Autopsy doesn’t give much but technical information that most lay person would not understand. The information contained in there does not tell a person whether or not the young man was on top.

  14. groans says:

    Bill Maher cites GZ’s nature in an insightful analogy:

    “Forget the Syria debate, we need to debate on why we’re always debating whether to bomb someone,” Maher said. “Because we’re starting to look, not so much like the world’s policeman, but more like George Zimmerman — itching to use force and then pretending it’s because we had no choice.”


    • Scary true.

      I had not made that connection, but as soon as I read it, I knew you were right.

      I believe it may have been Madeline Albright who said something like, “What’s the point of having the most powerful military force in the world, if you don’t use it.”

      One could just as easily substitute an armed George Zimmerman for the US Government and its military in her statement to arrive at an eerily similar, although substantially scaled-down picture of the threat to public safety that GZ poses.

      GZ, of course, is significantly less focused about whom he will victimize and when he will do it.

      With the exception of Shellie, her lawyer and possibly Mark O’Meara, I lack sufficient information to identify potential targets. Instead, I see him cruising around hoping to find a situation involving another black male he can kill and get away with murder by using the SYG defense.

    • Kate says:

      LOL great analogy.

  15. ay2z says:

    and from eleven billion miles and counting, the story is not over yet

  16. ay2z says:

    and from train 8, Denise Weeks….

  17. ay2z says:

    When the news has faded, when what news there is of the event last week is hitting back pages with AP only articles, when the last tv.media coverage is by a lawyer who hits the showtime mark with every second topic and the TVGuy at OS does an article listing all of these hollywood bullet points, what else is there to say? Nothing, and then the hoaxes set in to fill the gaps.

    This should be the end of this story now and for good. There is nothing more but made up stories. That would be a good fade in 3 and cut to black.

    There’s more to life than this family and it’s drama and the line is well blurred between reality and fantasy now.

    Now here IS something good in Florida– very good, heartwarming, inspirational and an amazing talent.

    A young woman from Jacksonville.


    • Kate says:

      Well I think it’s important. People shouldn’t just let things like this go, and rightfully so, the clown is making all sorts of mistakes and pitfalls. The murderer was lucky enough to get a pass by a biased prosecution, jury and witnesses that swore to uphold the laws or tell the truth. But because he is a narcissistic peon sociopath, he feels invincible, he feels justified in his actions and nothing will be done to him. If the spotlight wasn’t on him, we would not have seen the things we have been seeing. His actions prove once again his raving narcissism is getting him into trouble, and he cares very little about any of it. He’s been lucky and I would like to be there one day when his luck runs out. I won’t lie, I would breath a sigh of relief, knowing this jackhole is off the streets. In the meantime, we have some work to do with our justice system because our justice system, in this “democracy” is lynching certain groups of people and this should not and cannot be tolerated.

    • Deborah Moore says:

      Have seen it already, but thanks for sharing it here, Ay2z.
      The world needs to know these precious young women.

  18. kllypyn says:

    It’s only a matter of time before he hurts or kills someone else. When the gravy train ends he’ll probably snap.

  19. ay2z says:

    BTW, the regular media seems to have given the Emails d Bracknell, a wide berth. Might even say non-existent berth.

  20. ay2z says:

    Update on the SZ arrest– well, (snark), here’s one writer/site’s exposé of the so called ‘national’ report site dis-info.


    PSSSSST, is MOM really having a fling with the BatBoy??? ‘) Did the one-eyed-flyin’ purple people eater really swoop down and attack the infamous iPad?

    There is surely something about Kelly Sims hollywood laced elocution that smacks of staging, regardless of what we heard on her 911 tape, her lawyer is playing the media like nobody’s business.

  21. colin black says:

    REST ASSURED, the last thing on planet earth I want is ANY relationship with the Zimmermans. PERIOD.

    Ditto the zimmermans the last thing foggage an Shellie want is a realitionship with each other an they are the zimmermans.

    So if the entire zimmerclan junio momma daddy cousins et al cant stand to have a relationship with thenselfs.

    Why on earth would anyone else want to mix with them let alone have relations .

    They put the diss in diss the law the diss in diss the courts the diss in diss the miss .

    The diss in disregard for AN INNOCENT CHILDS MURDER

    An the diss in disillusioned delesional batshitcrazy no mark afroperuvian white trash

    An the diss in functional.

    OK I know the second to last diss was a wee bit o a cheat.

  22. colin black says:


  23. colin black says:

    MDH says:

    September 13, 2013 at 5:05 pm

    Zimmerman is becoming a Jonah.

    Jonah in sailors’ superstition[edit source]

    A long-established expression among sailors uses the term “a Jonah” as meaning a person (either a sailor or a passenger) whose presence on board brings bad luck and endangers the ship.[16] Later on, this meaning was extended to “a Jonah” referring to “a person who carries a jinx, one who will bring bad luck to any enterprise.”[17]


    If only Wolf Larsen were around to keel haul that plump fish.

    • Rachael says:

      Sigh. Pipe dreams. Ain’t nothing going to happen. Doesn’t matter who it gets out to.

    • willisnewton says:

      I like this guy’s emotion and sentiment. He smells a rat and says so.

      Sadly, I don’t buy his theory but he’s questioning things that deserve to be questioned, at least. Jeremy definitely saw more than he told the cops he saw. And their description of hearing a fight that moved N to South is questionable. They have motivation to be on GZ’s side and that’s enough to take what they say with a grain of salt at the least.

      This you tuber doesn’t speak to this but Manalo saw and heard more than he cares to speak about as well. Ofc Tim Smith didn’t tell the whole truth either, I feel. But that’s the way things go.

      If GZ actually said “shit, give me your light” to Jeremy it seems odd that he never got the light. Unless one wants to speculate that the honda keychain flashlight was not GZ’s but instead belonged to Jeremy. I think it is more likely that GZ is speaking about the inability of his tactical flashlight to operate properly as he reached the vicinity of the sidewalk T and wants to deploy it.

      • Did GZ accidently drop his light and ask Jeremy for his? Or did GZ have a flashlight at all when he exited his vehicle? Did he actually go past the “T” or did he travel through Jeremy’s home? I don’t make a definitive decision on what hasn’t been independently confirmed. All of these possibilities still sit in my head. I don’t believe for a minute that he was even at the “T”, I think he intended to cut TM off and ran through Jeremy’s garage. It would explain the bloody handprint on Jeremy’s garage door as well as call into question about his supposed “making furniture with the garage door open” story but never saw George or Trayvon right in front of his home.

  24. Rachael says:

    “The failure to hold Zimmerman accountable for any of his previous actions could have been what killed Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman had a proven criminal history, access to a gun, and the power of prejudices on his side. And it worked: Zimmerman, who has a history of violence, claimed he shot Martin only after the unarmed teen attacked him first; and he was acquitted.”


  25. ladystclaire says:

    @Judy, did you notice the excessive amount of money for her bail?

  26. Judy75201 says:

    There are now (fake) reports that Shellie has been arrested and charged with battery in the recent incident. It astounds me how many people don’t verify before passing on blog posts as fact.

  27. Sophia33 says:

    Bracknell, while not prudent to do so, expressed what many are thinking and feeling about ZImmerman. Everyone except his racist supporters.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Newsone apparently doesn’t know its ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to checking out facts. Where else have you attempted to perpetuate this nonsense?

      • Judy75201 says:


      • You know… I was a follower of this blog, but am now unsubscribing. Some posters are too blood thirsty and always ready to attack a new poster that tries to contribute. I haven’t perpetuated anything… only came across it and thought I would share with what I perceived were like-minded people for Justice for Trayvon. (To be honest, I do not even know about the reputation of NewsOne… thanks for the schooling). Don’t bother… I will show myself to the door, no need to get up.

        • a2nite says:


          Newsone got some bad information from AlterNET. Alternet has since deleted the incorrect posting. There is no evidence that Trayvon was shot in the back. Dr. Bao nor his lawyer made that allegation.

      • Kate says:

        Yeah Trained Observer that was really uncalled for. You can educate a little better and do so with more tact. I also got the same information and posted it earlier because I was confused about what was going on. By talking to some of the others it was cleared up for me.

        • Trained Observer says:

          Kate … that issue had been effectively dealt with WITHIN THIS VERY THREAD.

          Yet the poster, claiming to be a blog follower (and presumably a reader of this very thread), introduced that falsehood, without qualification, as if it had merit.

          It’s never “uncalled for,” as you put it, to challenge utter nonsense … or to question where else someone has been spreading around such garbage without noting that it’s hogwash.

    • MDH says:

      This is the key text from the autopsy:

      “Three fragments of projectile are recovered. The lead core is recovered in the pericardial sac BEHIND {emphasis mine} the right ventricle. Two fragments of the jacket are recovered in the right pleural cavity BEHIND {emphasis mine} the right lower lobe of the lung.”

      Click to access trayvon-martin-autopsy.pdf

      In layman’s terms, the bullet fragments entered the back of the chest cavity after passing through the chest hole, the heart and the lung, thus establishing that the shot was direct from front to back.

      A bullet trajectory from a hand gun follows the line of action of the shooter forearm.

      How would George get his right forearm at a right angle to Trayvon’s chest, if Trayvon is on top of him with his hands about George’s head. It is geometrically impossible.

      There are videos and diagrams on this site showing this.

      In fact, in forensics, the first assumption for a shot described by the autopsy is that the shooter was standing facing the victim because, in that position, the line of action of the forearm is at a right angle to the victim’s chest and the height of the shot is at the chest’s center.

      Again, LMppA (sp?) posted a diagram on this site showing how what I describe in the above paragraph lines up perfectly.

      • looneydoone says:

        Yes, that’s why the prosecution didn’t pursue the issue of trajectory…it would have been catastrophic for the defense, and the intent was not to gain a conviction, but the acquittal of cheorge. It bears the hallmarks of a conspiracy to obstruct justice, prosecutorial misconduct and judicial malfeasance.

        • Malisha says:

          100% agree, Looneydoone.

          • looneydoone says:

            So very obvious, Malisha. There was a criminal conspiracy to obstruct justice and gain an acquittal for cheorge…the feds must indict and prosecute all co-conspirators.

        • jm says:

          Was trajectory even brought up? The trial became such a farce after the prosecution witnesses turned into defense witnesses I could not watch all of it.

          • looneydoone says:

            No. Trajectory was never brought up during trial…that evidence was suppressed/withheld by the prosecution. Prosecutorial misconduct and judicial malfeasance= the crime of a conspiracy to obstruct justice. The intent was to gain an acquittal, not a conviction. The feds need to step in with criminal indictments against all of the co-conspirators

  28. MDH says:

    IMO, George suffers from some sort of authoritarianism complex.

    I cut this from Wikipedia. I know that’s not great research, but I think it provides a starting point. I put my comments in brackets { }.

    Right-wing authoritarianism is defined by three attitudinal and behavioral clusters which correlate together:[12][13]
    1.Authoritarian submission — a high degree of submissiveness to the authorities who are perceived to be established and legitimate in the society in which one lives.

    {Note how George cowed to the police in all situations, like a puppy rolling over for his master.}

    2.Authoritarian aggression — a general aggressiveness directed against deviants, outgroups, and other people that are perceived to be targets according to established authorities.

    {The evidence shows that black males are an out-group in the eyes of the Sanford PD and community at large. Note the Achmed the terrorist harassment George engaged in. There is probably a lot more evidence that the rest of this blog can fill in}

    3.Conventionalism — a high degree of adherence to the traditions and social norms that are perceived to be endorsed by society and its established authorities, and a belief that others in one’s society should also be required to adhere to these norms. [14]

    {George is fanatic about his right to have a gun to defend himself. George followed a car that he observed the parent had not “properly” buckled a child into. Trayvon did not look “normal”. In Georges mind, it is only “normal” to be out at night in the rain, if one is jogging.}

    This is just a rough sketch.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Interesting, MDH, and as you say, it’s a start.

      It’s also both intriguing and pathetic how often the word “firearm” comes up in conversation among Fogen and his associates. Constant reference to “my firearm” or “his firearm” as if talking about “my car,” “my cell phone,” “my brother,” “my cat” or “my dentist.”

      Exactly who runs around referencing “my firearm’ in daily life?

      • fauxmccoy says:

        @trained observer

        my firearm and i do not.

        yeah, i see what you mean, that felt pretty weird to type and i cannot imagine it happening again.

    • Judy75201 says:

      I had not heard of this disorder before, but it fits Fogen perfectly! No need to apologize re: Wiki. They have a great rep for vetting the info they provide.

      • Rachael says:

        There seem to be many mental health diagnoses that pertain to GZ, and there really is no point in us trying to pinpoint his diagnosis or “problem” because as often is the case, the tend to overlap and can be more than one. I think the important part is, regardless of what the specific diagnosis/diagnoses is/are, it is VERY clear to even the most untrained lay person that he has obvious mental health issues, and apparently has for quite some time.

  29. ay2z says:

    Oh, and trust the Brits tabloids to get a photo and story of the blonde woman.


    • ay2z says:

      btw, did the rag keep the exposed nipples in the photo on purpose? Or did they just happen to ‘blend’ with the leopard print and the bling?

  30. ay2z says:

    When an email is sent to a police chief, it invites an email response directly from the cheif’s computer. Is that really a good office policy? Hit the reply button and then a quick send vs a person hired to put a letter down on letterhead?

    Did the chief say things that would not be put on letterhead, official correspondence? It’s all official, but one is more casual and rapid fire, than the other.

    Sandy Hook? That is hyping the threat into killing of innocent school children by a deranged person. That doesn’t seem to be GZ, he’s a manipulative do-gooder by design and he needs victims he can effectively blame, doesn’t he?

    The chief might have turned the Sandy Hook comment around, or was he fearful of something happening in his community and so quickly agreed to that scenario? .

    More well thought out letter, might have been a better route to go, priority to keep community safe, doing what we can within the law and the situation, maybe a PR person could if not ‘spin’, keep the chief out of deep water.

    Does he remember what GZ did when NBC mis-stepped? He might be discussing this with his Philly legal team.

  31. lurker says:

    An additional set of thoughts. Somehow, as a society, we need to come to grips with the balance between safety and the right to be armed. And I don’t know if this is an issue that can be tackled through legal regulation.

    It is really difficult to come up witih solid research looking at the link between guns and crime–for many reasons, not the least of which is the attempts by the NRA to flood the internet with stuff that looks researchy drawing bogus conclusions. But, there has been some appropriately vetted research linking guns in households with both accidental deaths and violence against women.

    But the research that interests me is some following along the lines of whether people who carry are more likely to walk into risky situations where they end up using their gun. Zimmerman/Martin is a stellar example. Without the false courage of a gun at the hip George would never have gone stalking.

    Again–I don’t know if greater regulation is the step we need to take. But we clearly need to change the cultural belief that carrying a gun is a means to security. In fact, the proliferation of guns seems to be more closely linked to not only the proliferation if crime, but also the proliferation of serious injury and death associated with crime.

    When the belief that everyone needs a gun works its way down to a lot of kids Trayvon’s age they accept gun access as a right of passage and end up killing one another.

  32. lurker says:

    This may get a little long, as I have many thoughts. Certainly the Chief’s email candor (email being a public record) is surprising–either intentional or sloppy. Don’t know. PIO cannot be happy with him.

    Next, the Chief is not a mental health pro, and neither am I, but I have some professional associations that take me a wee bit closer. I am not certain that Aurora and Sandy Hook are appropriate comparisons for several reasons. One is that pattern is different. Those killers were deliberate planners, and likely intended their actions to be their last on earth. I am not convinced that George is a plotter, or ready to die for his actions. I don’t think his is that kind of illness.

    This has some legal ramifications as well (and I am not a lawyer). Both of those killers exhibited symptoms that could potentially have qualified for civil commitment–the standard by which people lose their gun rights. We have all played around with some possible diagnoses for George, but it takes more than a diagnosis. To show that someone is a danger to self or others really requires demonstration of clear and present danger. Even to bring about a 72 hour observation period requires a pretty high bar.

    George’s mental/emotional patiologies seem to be of the sort that spring forth suddenly, flashing into unpremeditated violence. And once sated (pretty immediate), he is able to return to look of calm normalcy. This fits pretty well with lots of abusers–no witnesses but the victim, who is terrified.

    I don’t know if Simms is a genius or completely naive and stupid. In the presser he admitted he messed up by not having LE go along when Shellie went to the house. He trusted George (and O’Mara). His advice seems to be “leave quietly, no drama.” Shellie may well have no ability to impact George’s drama. And her abilty to behave differently in his presence than she has previously may well be very limited.

    Frankly, as a non-legal person, I am not certain why the Chief is not able to pursue a charge other than domestic battery–something like aggravated menacing. However, I don’t know where the domestic lines are drawn. Apparently the state cannot use the domestic statute to act on behalf of Shellie’s dad because he didn’t live there, What I do not know is whether the state can act on any domestic charges other than battery–threats, menacing, etc.

    • I know there are people here who disagree with this but I can’t help but wonder if this is Z ‘s problem

      By Mayo Clinic staff

      Intermittent explosive disorder involves repeated episodes of impulsive, aggressive, violent behavior or angry verbal outbursts in which you react grossly out of proportion to the situation. Road rage, domestic abuse, throwing or breaking objects, or other temper tantrums may be signs of intermittent explosive disorder.

      People with intermittent explosive disorder may attack others and their possessions, causing bodily injury and property damage. They may also injure themselves during an outburst. Later, people with intermittent explosive disorder may feel remorse, regret or embarrassment.

      If you have intermittent explosive disorder, treatment may involve medications and psychotherapy to help you control your aggressive impulses.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Remorse doesn’t seem to be in Fogen’s package, but the rest seems to fit. Chances are he’s got multiple disorders out the ying-yang … too many to count on our fingers and toes.

        • Woow! says:

          He should get stuck. Karma for how he portrayed TJ as a racust thug; trying to have Tracy thrown out of court; stupid for taking the case pro bono then switching after he saw donation (greedy bastard); trying the case in the media.

          I hope he v has to pay the security co.

          • crazy1946 says:

            Woow! Actually, I would much rather see MOM stuck with paying for the security! It would be a fitting reward for his being such a glory hound…. That might cause the next lawyer to think about the cost before volunteering to defend a “human turd” like the Fogdoit!!

        • Rachael says:

          I tend to agree that remorse doesn’t seem to be a part of his package. Oh, he might feel remorseful if it is something that directly affects him, but then it would only be for having gotten caught, not for having done the actual deed itself. In order to fee remorseful for something, one first has to take responsibility for it, and with GZ, it is never his fault. It is always something else, therefore, he would never have a reason to feel remorseful. There is something missing in his makeup. He has a personality disorder/disorders (among probably other things) and all the medication and psychotherapy in the world probably will not help him.

  33. sparger says:

    I don’t think Fogen will go on a spree killing but I believe he will kill again. Most likely someone close to him. Eventually the attention will go away. Right wing groups are insane but I don’t think they are insane enough to hire George for speaking engagements and no one with any sense would hire him to work for their company. All those people that love Fogen love Fogen for killing one of those dangerous black rabid dogs.They don’t really want him around them.

    George will be the broke frustrated aint’ shit loser he always was and will take out his anger on someone close to him.

  34. I wonder if the chief has talked with Z’s friend Mr. Donnely.
    Mr Donnely was a generous donor and also bought all the clothes Z wore to court. He has known Z for many years.

    Mr Donnely said he would like to see Z’s gun at the bottom of the lake.
    I’m sure some would also like to see Z at the bottom of the lake LOL

    Why would Mr Donnely make that statement about Z’s gun ?
    Is he not convinced there are credible threats ?
    Does he know Z is reckless, immature and impulsive?
    I think it is all of the above!

    • ay2z says:

      I think the bottom of the lake is a good idea, except for the fact that this killer repeats his behaviours and doesn’t learn from them or doesn’t want to. He’d just end up going for more guns, again.

      Article by AP today, comments about possible rehab of character, and the problem that if he continues to do the same things over, he may not be a coachable person.

      Why doesn’t he follow a reasonable ‘publicity’ plan instead of an unreasonable publicity stunt plan?

      He’s now creating reasons for people to target him, with the emails about ‘Sandy Hook’ speculating on his future actions, now it’s not about any realistic threats for killing a black kid, he’s created the new message to someone with their own skewed hero ideas deciding to stop him for that.

  35. Judy75201 says:

    I was very surprised at how long it took the media to latch onto this story, possibly it was for the same reason I was hesitant about it when first shown the emails by the author of them on Twitter. Junior did not even acknowledge the story until late afternoon yesterday. I am very proud of Chief Bracknell, and I hope he has put a stopper in Zach Hudson’s vehement defense of Fogen and the *there was no gun!!!!* language.

    Thanks for this thread, Fred. Unfortunately, I am on my way to caretake for my mom, but hope to be able to at least read more of the comments.

    • dee truth says:

      Zach Hudson was also too animated/anxious to talk, too “definite” about his (inaccurate) statements (e.g., no gun was involved), plus I found his demeanor and body language very irritating.

  36. fauxmccoy says:

    yup. read that. sounds like the lake mary police chief has george’s number. i hope to hell no one else has to die because of this jackass.

  37. The Shadow says:

    My thoughts? Well, “time bombs” explode when they hit the target number. And when Georgie does-then the law enforcement in that little town will have a lot of blood on their hands. So will the judge, jury, and his “supporters”.

  38. ay2z says:

    Email reply to Rodriguez. Point 4. “He was standing by his truck when officers arrived…”

    Not so, the dash cam clearly shows Wes, the 400 lb bodyguard standing beside the driver’s door of the truck, and officers directed him to step away from the truck and he did eventually, started across the road, then he went in front of the truck and into the yard to the right of the truck, presumably into the Dean’s property.

    Zimmerman was inside his truck when officers arrived, and inside his truck when he was asked to step out. Would that make a difference as to whether the police could look inside the truck or not? GZ looked inside Dean’s truck, he was allowed to do that.

  39. ay2z says:

    Say, what’s happening with the speeding ticket? Has payment cleared the clerk’s office yet?

  40. ay2z says:

    O’Mara clearly distanced himself from this situation after a visit and calming down of the parties. Shellie did not press charges, possibly because the lawyers were talking with all parties, and that’s what they were advising. Just keep the two apart and all will be well. How could she be the only one to say ‘listen to me’, these are two professional advisors, two men.

    If Shellie was fearful, how could she stand up to the three men in the discussion with one being charming, a ‘beautiful person’ according to SZ’s own lawyer, with control issues and at least one gun? She was advised not to cause a fuss, O’Mara wanted to be gone from there, with things smoothed over best as he could for his client and Sims gave unbelievably bad advise to protect his female client by sending her into that fray without professional protection. He seems too flippant to act in the best interest of a woman who may be at serious risk. Unless the lawyer thinks this is all staged and a show only.

  41. Deborah says:

    Now there are reports that Dr. Bao said Trayvon Martin was shot in the back? Is Dr. Bao losing it? I hear Willie Gary is a very good lawyer and I don’t think he would take Dr. Bao on if he were crazy. What do you all think?

  42. pat deadder says:

    I think this Sheriff has guts and the people in Lake Mary must be smarter than the people in Sanford.
    I’m wondering if they’ve witnessed some things that happened during the time fogen and Shelley lived there during the trial or
    perhaps LE have seen the Ipad video.
    Or maybe DOJ has been talking to LE there and have information.
    This all seems very mysterious with even O’Mara turning on him.
    God I hope fogen is nervous but doesn’t hurt or murder anyone else.
    I’m sure he’s being watched.

  43. I feel like we are a bunch of Cassandras around here accurately predicting the future, but the mainstream media and much of the country ignores us.

    At least Chief Bracknell gets it.

    We don’t want to be in a position to say, “We told you so,” to everyone else, because that will mean another needless death of an innocent and another pack of lies from George, the psychopath with a gun.

    Frustrating and worrisome situation.

    I understand why the police didn’t charge him since both sides declined to press charges, Shellie did not actually see a gun, and George destroyed the iPad. They arrest and he sues for false arrest and gets to continue living in the style to which he has become accustomed at taxpayer expense.

    • ay2z says:

      My bet is he carries more than one gun and no more tiny 300 dollar guns, he’s got a real and accessible holster now. If not to be able to tackle multiple targets at a distance with maximum stopping power, why would he be interested in the Kel-Tec compact shot gun?

      Next he’ll show up like a commanchero from the movies.

      I had no idea all this was going on today, missed TO’s post earlier.

    • MDH says:

      “I feel like we are a bunch of Cassandras around here accurately predicting the future, but the mainstream media and much of the country ignores us…”

      That would require them to admit that they could not see what was obvious just from the Trayvon 9-11 tape. George is a paranoid delusional nut with a gun that any sane person would want behind bars ASAP.

      Instead, they chose to believe his raging black teen theory was reasonable.

      In a way, they suck more than George.

      How many have apologized for what they said during the Central Park Five debacle?

  44. racerrodig says:

    It’s obvious FogenPhoole has that “I have a gun, ergo I MUST use it on someone” and NOT I would only need it in an extreme case if I’m in mortal danger. He goes out of his way to create the situations where he sets people up.

    That in and of itself is a crime. It may be hard to prove, but that’s what he does. If I were a responsible Chief, Id find a way to get a court order and a subpoena for his psychiatric records and get his permit pulled. No if’s, ands or buts about it.

    It is obvious to the most casual observer Fogen is walking around with a “I dare ya to mess with ME” posture which is lethal with this shit for brains.

    I vote we cut off his air supply and just be done with it.

  45. varney33 says:

    I think the chief put himself in danger, along w/ others mentioned in your post.

  46. Kate says:

    Dr. Shiping Bao says Martin was shot in the back. Is this why he says Martin was never on top of the killer??


    Some people are saying he perjured himself, but I don’t see it that way. In watching his testimony debacle, it was not his fault he did not understand courtroom procedures and whenever he began reading his notes to the jury they would cut him off. They obviously did not want to hear it.


    • Kate says:

      The only thing about this is that they said there was no bullet wound on his back entering or exiting. So I am not exactly sure what to make of this. What is really going on?

      • pat deadder says:

        Kate didn’t Ramondo or someone say they had to sit Trayvon up to try and cover the hole in his back or something to that affect or am I becoming delusional.

        • Kate says:

          Pat deadder!! I do remember that!!! YES!! The vaseline and shopping bag to keep the air from leaking out! Your right. Let us go to youtube and see if we can find that video! To the bat mobile!

          • Kate says:

            But if I recall, it was to cover up the hole in the front of his chest. He said he saw no exit wound in his back, so the back and Vaseline was to cover the wound in the front? So did Dr. Bao perjure himself? Or is someone putting out false info to try and discredit him from speaking out? It just seems weird. Need to get to the bottom of this.

          • Dr. Bao did not commit perjury.

          • Rachael says:

            I think they sat him up to look for an exit wound in the back – but the Vaseline and plastic bag were to form a seal from the chest wound where the bullet went in the front.

          • pat deadder says:

            Kate says To the bat mobile.That is hilarious.
            Thank you everyone.Obviously I’m wrong about why they had to sit Trayvon up.I just don’t know how Trayvon’s family have managed to stay sane and above reproach through all of this. I’m sure I would have lost it long ago.
            Although I’m taking comfort in the sheriff’s statements I won’t hold my breath waiting for fogen to get his just deserts after the devastating trial results.Wish we knew the inside story.There has to be more than racism involved here Is it possible for so many people involved in this to hate other human beings this much because of the colour of their skin.
            At the present time I’m reading about the history of our country in so far as owning slaves.Apparently when we left the US in 1700 hundreds we brought 2000 slaves with us.
            Now I’ve found out we have a hospital named after a former slave owner and I want to find out why.

          • lurker says:

            The sat him up to look for an exit wound–standard first aid procedure with a gs wound in the chest. When they blew into him the lungs would not inflate, due to the entry wound. So they covered that one and checked to make sure there wasn’t another.

        • Kelly Payne says:


          • Yes, the first responders to the scene used a plastic bag and vaseline to create a seal that would prevent air from escaping out the entry wound in Trayvon’s chest as they administered CPR.

            CPR cannot partially inflate the lung, if air provided by the breather escapes the chest cavity.

            They also checked his back for an exit wound before starting CPR because they would have had to do the same thing to an exit wound, if they had discovered one.

            There was no exit wound.

            Trayvon’s body was visually examined to look for an exit wound and x-rayed at the ME’s office to find the location of the bullet and possible fragments before Dr. Bao started cutting.

            This is standard operating procedure in every ME’s office when conducting an autopsy to determine cause of death.

            Dr. Bao noted in his autopsy report that there was no exit wound and that is what he said when he testified at trial.

    • I don’t believe he ever said Trayvon was shot in the back. He testified that the entry wound was in the front.

    • Xena says:

      @Kate. The original source of that claim is not credible. Since he blogged it, other sources have repeated it. The person is taking the Zidiot route by lying. We don’t need to have Trayvon shot in the back to know that GZ could not have made a straight front to back shot with Trayvon on top of him.

      We saw the photos of the sweatshirts. There is no bullet hole in the back.

      I’ve combed the internet and Youtube for Dr. Bao’s and attorney Gary’s statements. Not once did either say that Trayvon had been shot in the back.

      At trial, Dr. Bao said that the shot was straight front to back. He testified how the stripling and powder evidence the entry wound, and he spoke on how that would differ had it been an exit wound if Trayvon had been shot in the back.

      I spent several hours yesterday watching Bao’s testimony. One thing (out of several) that I noticed is that after he stated “straight front to back,” he hesitated, and he did state that several times. That gives me the impression that he expected to be asked what the bullet projection indicates. As attorney Gary has said, that question never came.

      • MDH says:

        The blogger could me getting confused.

        A shot straight on will lodge bullet fragment in the back of the chest cavity. A angled shot would lodge them to the side.

        So Bao could be basing his front to back trajectory on the fact that the fragments entered the back – back meaning back of the cavity.

        Bao has been rightly criticized for broken English that muddies what he is trying to say. But it was the responsibility of the prosecution to clarify things like this. Unless they were going to use his muddying to cover for their mud.

      • Kate says:

        Ah!! Thanks XENA!!! I knew something was off, and it seemed a strange new claim.

        I suppose they are mocking him.

        • Lying, mockery and repetition are the preferred tools of the right wing hate machine that seeks to legitimize a lie by endlessly repeating it.

          They will create the appearance of many voices repeating a lie by using multiple identities on the internet. Hence, the term “sock puppet.”

          They use proxy servers to hide their IP addresses and true identities.

          In this manner a small group of people can create the appearance of a much larger group of people.

          Don’t be fooled by such deceptive practices.

          • Kate says:

            LOL Professor, “sock puppets”. I have never heard them coined in that particular term, but I am going to start using it.

        • Xena says:

          @Kate. My thinking is that the person starting that misrepresentation, read where Dr. Bao stated that he had proof that Trayvon was not on top when shot, and they assumed that means Trayvon had to have been shot in the back. That person apparently hasn’t seen discovery evidence.

          I remember last year when a blogger wrote that FDLE had GZ’s laptop (probably true), and found that minutes before he followed Trayvon, he had visited gay porn websites featuring young Black men. Others started spreading that. It took some time for folks to realize that the person quoted no credible source for the information.

          In this matter, the writer accredited Dr. Bao with saying Trayvon was shot in the back. Yet, all info from Dr. Bao and his attorney is absent of that statement.

          • Kate says:

            Xena, YES! I had a similar thought last night; however, I thought they were mocking him because during his testimony he changed his mind about how long Martin had been alive. Since Dr. Bao now states he has evidence Martin was never on top of this killer, I thought that they were putting out some ridiculous reason as to how he knew he wasn’t on top by stating the kid was shot in the back. So basically they are saying he changed his mind once again but with some ridiculous reason.

          • BillT says:

            my take on what bao said about how long Martin lied was that before he thought the maximum was around 3 minutes, BUT since he had that opinion he had seen a case where a person with similar injury lived for 10 minutes so like any scientist he had to change his opinion on how long it was POSSIBLE to live…i think the problem with him was the folks not listening well as opposed to him not wording things well enough. my experience is many folks hear what they want to hear.

    • looneydoone says:

      The autopsy report signed by Dr Bao clearly states
      front to back gunshot wound; entry point 1″ left of mid line, 1/2″ below the left nipple. No exit wound.

    • Malisha says:

      I think Bao is being misquoted to try to decrease his credibility. Martin was shot in the chest in a way that could NOT have happened while Martin was on top of Fogen.

  47. Rachael says:

    What upsets me most is – ALL of this was going in even before he shot Trayvon. How many times did I say it was bound to happen and if it wouldn’t have been Trayvon, it would have been someone else.

    And now this guy says: “Does anyone else except me see a pattern?” Bracknell added. ”

    Again, that pattern was established BEFORE GZ shot Trayvon. Why no one saw it before, I don’t know – but even now when it is obvious, no one is doing much about it.

    Is it because Trayvon was a black male kid?

    Who does GZ have to kill before it matters?

    • Malisha says:

      The HOA and Jenna and Jeremy and “Kevin” and Chief Lee and Patty Mahaney all KNEW that Fogen was gunning for someone by february 2012. They all knew and Chief Lee covered it up and wouldn’t respond to the complaints that had been made about Fogen by residents. And even a couple of people who were not residents but who walked THROUGH RTL and got stopped and interrogated by Fogen knew he was going to do something aggressive and racist and criminal. THEY KNEW. Why do we think the HOA paid off and got a confidentiality agreement? THEY KNEW!

      Shelly knew more than anybody else.

      Her life is in danger now. I frankly do not give a damn.

      • jm says:

        Malisha says: “Shelly knew more than anybody else. Her life is in danger now. I frankly do not give a damn.”

        I wonder how much his parents, brother and sister knew. Is RZ, Jr still tweeting about what a good person GZ is and how great the family is?

        They are all disgusting.

        • MichelleO says:

          THE ENTIRE FAMILY KNEW. As a matter of fact, they are now back to business as in before this tragedy ever occurred: Estranged.

          They defended this freak of a man and got nothing for it. I figure the real tears and anger must be occurring about now.

  48. bettykath says:

    I agree with the chief but for one point: they have evidence that Shellie’s 911 call is valid. As has been pointed out in other threads here, the outdoor video confirms that fogen put his hand where his shoulder holster would be and motioned for them to approach him. It seems that only the intervention of his very large friend de-escalated the situation. This is threatening behavior from someone who does have a shoulder holster and, by his own admission, always carries a gun. This should be reason enough for them to arrest him. They had witnesses that said he retreated to his truck before the police arrived which, to me, would suggest that if gun were there, it would be reason enough to believe that he had it on him when he threatened Shellie and her father. They have at least one witness, MOM, who says that fogen had it on him.

    The 911 call, the video tape, and MOM’s statement should be enough to give Shellie’s version credibility and result in the arrest of fogen. Of course, arresting him may just escalate his hostile behavior and result in one or more people being targeted.

  49. BTW, absolutely love the Mark O’Mara advice: “He should pay me.”

    Here’s a news flash for Mr. O’Mara: You’ll likely never see a single dime of it, so you’d best enter the So You Think You Can Dance contest and hope for the best. Looks like you done been played.

  50. Well, from what I can glean from Global Grind, the emails have apparently been validated. Since they are valid, it’s fairly obvious that the police are concerned about GZ. There are other giveaways that they are concerned as well. It is rare for cops to draw guns, much less order someone onto their knees, with the guns drawn. They seem at least very cautious. I have only seen cops with guns drawn one time ever, in my life, and I have never witnessed an “on you knees” type of thing.

    Do any of you think the police chief knows more of the story?

    The link I refer to:


    • PYorck says:

      Do any of you think the police chief knows more of the story?

      I think there is a good chance that the police (don’t know when the Chief became involved personally) has some idea of the credibility of the parties beyond what they can prove.

      They would know how GZ behaved on the scene, how he reacted when the possibility of a gun was brought up, which questions he was reluctant to answer etc.

    • Fogen don’t give a damb. FogenSr will get him out of any jam he finds himself in to not confirm Fogen has serious mental issues. And so long as Fogen don’t live with him. IMO, Fogen lives with the blonde cuz he has no place else to go.

    • Kate says:

      The reason they had guns drawn is because Shellie told 911 he had his hand on his gun and was threatening to shoot them, urging them to come forward or towards them. So they already had some indication or were at the very least cautious about what was going on.

  51. Dave says:

    I have to say it was indiscreet to email opinions like this although I agree with the sentiments. Anyway it looks like GZ is persona non grata in Lake Mary.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Indiscreet? Yes. Reflecting a small town police chief who hasn’t yet learned the art of hiding behind a PIO? Yes.

      Yet his statements may have been intended as an unsubtle message to Fogen: Stay outta our town … we aren’t Sanford, and we don’t want your kind.

      Have to appreciate a top cop willing to acknowledge the lay of the land.

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