George Zimmerman cannot stay out of trouble

Tuesday, September 10, 2013

Many thanks to all who have contributed. We appreciate your generosity.

Turns out that George and Shellie Zimmerman were living in her father’s home during the trial and for nearly one year before the trial started. Rene Stutzman and Jeff Weiner of the Orlando Sentinel have the story.

It is a two-story, $240,000 home on a cul-de-sac with landscaping, a pool and spa in the backyard and two security cameras trained on its front door.


The house is at the end of a quiet street of similar homes and is surrounded by woods on three sides.


The Zimmermans paid $1,000 a month rent, according to statements previously posted about his legal-defense fund by defense attorney Mark O’Mara.

The house has more than 2,500 of livable square feet and a market value of $240,000, according to the Seminole County Property Appraiser.

The house was built in 1990, and the backyard is dominated by a two-tier pool and spa with four water jets shaped like lions’ heads. Also in the backyard is a patio with a second-story deck.

Apparently, George showed up unexpectedly to pick up his things and got into an argument with Shellie and her dad. The argument turned physical at some point with George shoving or punching Shellie’s dad.

Shellie called 911 and asked for assistance claiming that he had a gun.

Police did not find a gun and eventually decided not to arrest George after Shellie and her father declined to press charges.

Tempers may have been tweaked by the presence of an unidentified female who accompanied George. Fortunately, she had the good sense to remain in the car.

Let’s see: two speeding tickets and a near arrest for assault since a misguided jury acquitted him of murder.

What’s next for this train wreck?

652 Responses to George Zimmerman cannot stay out of trouble

  1. Brandy says:

    FACT… If anyone else had done what we know GZ did they would of been arrested period! The cops in Florida are crooked and have Georgies back, That simple. I am beyond disgusted with the whole lot of them! UGH

  2. Brandy says:

    I can just hear Shellie now… ” I over reacted and I thought he had his gun Blah, Blah, Blah

    • ay2z says:

      C’mon. She knew he always carried a gun, she knew he purchased an Uncle Micks full chest holster, she knew he always buttoned up his shirts, but when he arrived, he had his baggy shirt unbuttoned where the holster would hold a gun, had his hand in his shirt, and she knew he always carried his gun with him.

      Simms used the bank teller analogy.

      Someone in her position of knowing these things, had a right to be concerned and to call 911, and he did have guns (more than one) in his vehicle that day.

      Read the police reports, see what otehrs say about how the iPad got into GZ’s hands.

      Listen to the info from Simms today, GZ is repeating behaviours of the past, where he cut off the electricity to his monther’s place, and locked out the connection, now he has cut off the air conditioning in his step father[s home that he and SZ had a lease on, once she was out of the house and anyone coming to pick up furniture, had to endure the florida heat without AC.

      He’s a bully.

      • ay2z says:

        (about the AC being shut out, this was what police officers endured when they were in the house, becuase it was cut off when SZ was to arrive to pick up things.

        No things are in dispute, it will all be divided up but this is a temporary need thing until that’s done.

        I believe the 911 call and her fear.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        i caught that too — he deliberately disables the AC when she comes to move her stuff and has had fair warning (also disables interior security cams). we all thought that was abusive behavior when we read that he did that to his mother (mind you, we do not have to like either gladys or shellie) but this is still abusive.

  3. Brandy says:

    Great, Time for spin control and more lies from SZ, whatever comes out of her mouth I will not believe! Her attorny’s along with George are making her do this. Shelley is just trying to protect her cash cow

  4. ay2z says:

    Tres Update:

    Shellie and Simms to hold a news conference. The link is up now but it’s still scheduled 40 mins from now.

    The news conference will be held at 6 p.m. Wednesday in downtown Orlando and will be streamed live on

  5. towerflower says:

    Local update, the cops will continue but the IPAD will have to be sent out. Severely damaged and the chip is also damaged. Police reports have been release and the mystery blonde has been identified ( Samantha Scheibe).

  6. ay2z says:

    Update: PD report by Heather Vinson about the female in the Honda truck with GZ.

    Female’s name is Samantha Schelbe, she refused to give a statement but said she had no idea what was going on,
    “Schelbe stated that there were guns in the vehicle but that they had concealed weapons permits for the guns. Schelbe refused to give a statement.”

    Sounds like GZ’s woman in the long black dress was an owner of one or some of the guns in teh car, saying ‘they had permits’.

    Could be she’s the reason for the Texas go-nowhere road trip?

    Click to access Zimmerman-report-pdf.pdf

  7. ay2z says:

    By the way, now PD says SZ was slow to give permission for the iPad exam or it’s passwords. It’s her fault this is delayed.

    But what about the images/videos GZ was seen recording of the trailer, the truck on the security vid? Does he have video he’s holding back?

  8. ay2z says:

    the PD now say the iPad is so badly damaged, could take months to recover info. Hudson wanted to wrap things up by today, thought the video would be accesisble by today and they arranged a news conference that obviously cancelled on scene before it started.

    GZ knew exatly what he was doing when he destroyed SZ’s iPad, and knows PD will believe him, or give him cause to doubt any other version, by saying she struck him with the iPad. Frank Taaffee is busy on HLN with Dr. Drew last night, saying SZ was inconsistent in her 911 claim that GZ used a knife to destroy the iPad, that he only threw it. Ok, well how does a synthetic iPad case get ripped off, and why? Maybe because it would protect the iPad in an attempt to smash it?

    GZ knew exactly that he can still control the direction of an investigation and the results, look at the pic of him standing hands up, shirt caught in his wasteband on one side, his pants nearly falling off. He’s got shed of his gun, maybe holster too, and the cops won’t consider a gun if it’s not on him any more.

    If you give someone a gift, even a spouse, you then have the right to destroy it? SZ should have borrowed an iPad or video camera from the lawyer who advised her to go get her things and video contents. Then see if GZ had the right to destroy evidence.

    • Dave says:

      In the surveillance video, you can see GZ dismantling the iPad, apparently with a tool of some sort, before he throws it on the ground.

      • ay2z says:

        Yes! That’s what I saw too. Report says knife to pry it open. That was for a purpose, like someone wiping a laptop HD to blue screen before letting cops at it.

        When he’s done enough, he then tosses it, seems not before he’s got the job done to his satisfaction first.

  9. MichelleO says:

    I WONDER what it’s like as for a black person to know that they are working for or in the presence of Fogan. I kept looking at that clip of the altercation between Fogan and Shellie and noticed that one of the black guys kept his distance from Fogan. I couldn’t work for him or be around him. That would make the hairs on my neck stand up.

  10. a2nite says:

    Sorry off topic:

    Guns win in CO
    People lose.

    • Boyd says:

      nah, thanks for the reminder, need to look for some pot stocks today been putting it off for 1 year no joke.

    • KA says:

      EXACTLY!!!! I am pissed!

      I cannot believe that after the theater shooting and Columbine. How many mass shootings do we need to have to think for a second that we need to do something about gun law loopholes.

      I just could not believe the ignorance of the voting people to the cause of tragedies in our own state.

  11. Woow! says:

    Where are the Feds with their investigation? I have a feeling they aren’t going to do anything either.

    • ay2z says:

      GZ is smart and manipulative with education about police work and the law. He’s running all over the Keystone cops in his neighborhoods and he’s the man. Shelly needs to act smart and not give him the chance to make her look bad.

      If the Keystones believe she pushed or tossed the iPad at him, he will turn charges on her so fast knowing the effect on her probation, and he’ll run the show with her behind bars.

      Cops said he had every right to destroy the iPad that she was using, yet her lawyer apparently told her to document everything in her move out of the house with video. GZ, according to Simms, gave the iPad to her as a gift, little inscription and all.

      Hudson was pretty casual with calling the man in this dispute, “George”, not Mr. Zimmerman, or George Zimmerman, or the husband or the male involved.

      When the cop walked GZ to soemwhere as shown in a photo, GZ was doing his leadership role again, walking ahead.

      • ay2z says:

        Boyd, went OT with your comment, thinking this covering over, runs deep and will the Feds (politicians) really want to disturb the state’s status quo. (sad)

  12. Trained Observer says:

    Chicken & Egg: Did Volusia sack Bao because of his suit in the works … or did he file suit because he got fired and no longer had a need to keep his mouth shut?

    (No matter his brilliance or competence, I still believe Volusia taxpayers are of an ilk who would prefer their bureaucrats to speak fluently in local parlance. Asians or other minorities would be tolerated but only if they speaka de English.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Many Floridians apparently prefer that their bureaucrats speak perfect English and don’t care if their black youth are profiled, pursued, and shot dead for no reason.

    • towerflower says:

      Volusia county sacked him after he refused to resign or seek work elsewhere. The lawsuit was a result of the firing.

      • towerflower says:

        I used to live in Volusia county, along with Brevard, Flagler, and Broward Counties. As a native I don’t expect my elected bureaucrats to speak perfect English, some might say my somewhat southern drawl is not perfect English also. There are many different types of dialects within our country from Boston, Midwest, southern, etc.

        I am only a second generation American but when my Grandfather came to the US he was required to learn the language, he did but with an accent. I don’t have a problem with that. I have no problems with anyone wanting to come to America for a better way of life, after all most of our ancestors did just that, though some didn’t have a choice and others were forced out. But if you choose to make another country your home, you should learn the language. I wonder how many other countries around the world make special considerations to those who don’t want to learn the language?

        • fauxmccoy says:


          while it is certainly in an immigrant’s best interest to learn the language commonly spoken in their newly adopted homeland, i think it is always important that from our inception and as a specific point, we have no national language or religion. i, for one, take the first amendment to mean that i can say what i want and in whatever language i wish. as a rule, it is an issue that self corrects within one generation. i’m willing to live with that.

          as the hispanic population grows, we may have a very interesting debate on our hands as to which language immigrants should learn. no?

        • I think Dr. Bao speaks English well enough to do his job and testify. His problem is a lack of familiarity with our legal system.

  13. Woow! says:

    If f it can be proved the prosecutors threw the case is there any recourse for the Martins? What could they do. What I am trying to ask is are there any legal remedies against a prosecutor that intentionally throw a case to set a defendant free?

  14. Boyd says:

    well maybe Bao is right. maybe Bernie decided to screw it up after ms. Jeantel so-called good friend of trayvon called him the bald headed dude. no only millions watching and laughing.

    • Boyd says:

      I’ve worked with Foreign professionals of varying degees of English skills. The ones struggling with English are rarely put in front of the customer.

      His English skills were surprisingly bad for a Medical Dr. IMHO. But Not the worst I’ve heard from a professional.
      I understood him, I respected his skills, but now how bout the people down there?

      You already have deep seated racial problems in Florida, now throw in a poor english speaking ME speaking for the Porsecution.

      That’s why I rolled my eyes when Bao went off script and when Rachel went off script.
      BDLR knows Florida Juries.

      • ay2z says:

        He’s likely brilliant. Not the typical pathologist in an ME office, and could be he was hired on some equal opportunity policy to prove something politically? (it’s possible, then when this went awry, and he is NOT the legal expert, the state used him as the scapegoat).

      • KA says:

        I think he is brilliant. He kept up to date on new cases and adjusted his thinking based on new evidence. That is more than I can say for a lot of western trained physicians.

        He should have been better prepared and the focus ended up the time Trayvon was alive (which he said was in agony and pain the entire time if it happened)…also, there is a time Trayvonw as not breathing and that is when LE got there and determined it 2 minutes later. This “open ended” timeframe was a failure of the State to point that out and dispel that thought process.

        Additionally, I kept waiting for the bullet trajectory that never came. I am so angry that Bernie threw (or agreed to throw) this.

      • elle says:

        Having worked as a medical transcriptionist for many years, I can with all confidence type, Dr. Bao is n excellent doctor, who actually cared about Trayvon Martin. And, he barely has an accent compared to 50% of the doctors I have worked for, including born and bred U.S. citizens. And, his “patients” are no longer breathing, so his accent probably does not other them in the least.

    • Two sides to a story says:


  15. Woow! says:

    Medical Examiner In Zimmerman Trial Sues For $100M, Claims Prosecution Threw Case

    In a bombshell allegation, Florida medical examiner, Dr. Shiping Bao, claims that Florida state prosecutors were biased against Trayvon Martin and purposely threw the case, and he is suing the state for $100 million, reports

    • Nellie Nell says:

      I just read this posting by someone on Facebook.

      What a freaking mess. Those crazy ass folks had no intentions on convicting the cold blooded killer as Trayvon begged for his life to be spared. How many people does it take to kill one teenage Black kid for no reason? Gosh, this country sucks!

  16. bettykath says:

    The ME said that the prosecution wasn’t interested in convicting fogen. They felt that Trayvon got what he deserved. He was prepared to prove that Trayvon couldn’t have been on top of fogen but he wasn’t asked the question that would have allowed this testimony.

    It also seems that Don West’s job was to destroy witnesses before they testified. He deposed Rachel Jeantel for several hours over 2 days and had her so anxious about testifying that she was unable to sleep the night before. It affected her first day of testimony. He seems to have intimidated the ME to the point that the ME did more research and prepared notes so that he could answer anticipated questions. The both defense and prosecution attorneys were on him for copies of his notes. BDLR’s role should have been to neutralize West’s bullying by properly preparing his witnesses, but he didn’t.

    And those who disagree with Corey lose their jobs……

    • bettykath says:

      I hope the ME stands his ground and doesn’t take a settlement. It might be a way of getting his ttestimony about Trayvon and the prosecution’s throwing of the case into the record.

      • boyd says:

        I did not read anywhere that the ME said that.

        He was a disaster , pretty obvious he would be fired. He never shoud have been hired.

        Defense attorneys had a field day tearing his testimony up, making him look like a school boy “gimme you notes son”.

        The jurors must have confidence in the ME. He’s the Dr. That kid did not live for 10 minutes. Then the other Dr. went on the stand and used his Original time estimate. wtf.

        Answer the qusetions with confidence, do not make off cuff remarks to Judge and stop saying ‘I here to tell truth’ He was almost worse than Rachel who unwittingly gave the Jurors and West what they wanted to hear. Peace.

        • bettykath says:

          “Swift said on Tuesday that Bao had eight points he wanted to make during the trial but was blocked by prosecutors from State Attorney Angela Corey’s office of the 4th Judicial Circuit in Jacksonville. Swift said Bao wanted to testify that Martin was not on top of Zimmerman. He also wanted to say that the amount of marijuana in Martin’s system would have made him less aggressive.”

          • boyd says:

            well too bad he struck out at the plate and never got the chance.

            so they yanked him off the stage? I do not recall that.

            I thought both sides took marijuana off the table.

        • Malisha says:

          I disagree, Boyd. Had the prosecution prepared him properly he would have been an excellent witness.

          • MDH says:

            I cut an pasted this from one of my upstream remarks.

            Helping those who speak broken English is very common in patent law. I would say that 40% of all inventors of key technology in the USA speak broken English. It is up to the attorney to translate complex technical data provided by an expert with arguments that can be clearly understood by a layman.

            For example, Bao, being a scientist, assumed that any engineer worth his salt will see that give the following facts:

            The shot trajectory was a right angle; and

            The vector of a bullet fired from a handgun follows the line of action of the shooters forearm;

            then it is a geometric impossibility for Trayvon to have been on top with his hand proximate George’s head.

            LMppA (sp?) provided drawing {the best way to convey complex technical subjects} here to convey what I just wrote.

            Why did the prosecution just let a man who speaks broken English try to do that without some instructions.

            They could have told him to make a drawing.

            This case is a mockery of justice. We have a prosecution that did not use drawings and diagrams backed by expert fact finding to clearly convey what we have learned here and a defense that was allowed to let a jury see a cartoon that was not based on any facts.

            I see Bao as a fall guy.

          • Boyd says:

            I don’t have the metrics to gauge their preparedness.

            I was told BDLR had a high prosecution rate and many years of experience.

            I do not know what Bao’s experience in major trials are. But I bet it’s 0.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            I agree with Malisha. He was not prepared properly and his claim that the prosecution wasn’t interested in his opinion seems to be true, from what we observed overall during the sham trial.

          • Boyd says:

            MDH they needed you to help Bao.

            All I know is If I’m a juror my green checkmark goes into Demaio’s box. That’s all I cared about. who is winning. I told you guys I needed a LeBron James slam dunk on Fogen. And BTW somone should have told Ms Jeantel that too before she testified. We did not need creepy ass cracker comments. And why did the prosecution allow West to go on and on about the phone call and tryavon’s whereabouts without carefully detaling the HUNT. Then the Judge throws the hunt out.

            My biggest problem with Bao was changing the length of time Trayvon could live with a shattered heart based on 1 previous case.
            The defense came back asking him did you submit it to a medical journal? 10 minutes? enough time for Trayvon to get up walk to the 7-11 again. Zimmerman said the kid was still a threat and all that moaning, groaning and talking he did.

          • sherna lee says:

            Same goes for Rachel.

          • elle says:

            Dr. Bao’s seeming incompetence was a result of the fact that he was not being allowed to say what he wanted to. Therefore, he got out what he could. Including talking about “a real self defense case”. He did the best he could in a language he was not born into. And, he was not intimidated by West. He was trying to be very specific because West is such an friggin dunce.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            I think Rachel’s CAC comment was perfect and added to her credibility. And Fogen was behaving like a creepy-ass cracker.

  17. MDH says:

    There is no money to be made from a deadbeat who has had three affairs while still married to Shellie. MOM sees his only hope for any money in the NBC suite and getting some of the Trayvon trial expenses paid by the state of Fla.

    Smashing an IPAD adds to the communal property costs that George will be required to make whole.


    • bettykath says:

      The police get to decide that an ipad is communal property? Is Shellie not allowed to have anything of her own?

      • MDH says:

        That begs a question.

        Isn’t the Ridgeline that George rides around in also communal property of the marriage?

        And, if so, why couldn’t the police have asked her for permission to search property to which she has a communal interest?

        And lets be real.

        If George were a black man, does anyone believe that the police would not have searched the truck and made his bodyguard and present GF lie face down along with him in cuffs as they made a search?

        It is rather simple.

        The right wing Republicans have made George a cause celebre and the police must bow down to their Lord and Masters.

        • Isn’t the Ridgeline that George rides around in also communal property of the marriage?

          Does not matter if it’s community property. He possesses the Ridgeline and he’s present to consent or to deny consent.

          Might be a different result, if he were not present.

        • Dave says:

          If the cops had searched the Ridgeline and found the gun, so what? He has a CCW permit. The presence of a gun in the vehicle does not prove that he had it on his person during the “altercation” with Shellie and her dad. Even the fact that it’s common knowledge that GZ goes armed everywhere (except work) doesn’t prove that he was carrying that afternoon. The cops did a quick patdown when they cuffed him and looked inside the truck (through the windows)–all proper and legal.

          Would they have treated an African American suspect differently–at night with the cameras off? I don’t know but it looked to me like they did it by the book with GZ.

          • boyd says:

            I agree Dave, except they would have treated an AA differently, 100% they would have asked to search that car, and all the persons on site would have been searched and in some type of the position where they could be seen.

            When I used to work in Prince George County , Md I routinely saw stops, carloads of Young AA’s sitting roadside on the major roads off 95 while cops are searching the car. I’m told that still happens. By routine l’m talking weekly.

          • MDH says:


            You have seen how the outer counties of MD treat Black Americans.

            I have a Black wife and attended a picnic at a beach by the Bay that was about 100% African people. When I went to get snacks, the police stopped me and told me that they were doing a drug check point. So they made me get out of the car while they had the dogs sniff it.

            Sure, I could have protested my rights, but I just took it to protect my family.

            Post racial my ass.

      • In a community property state, each spouse owns an undivided half interest in all property acquired with community funds (e.g., spousal income). That does not mean each spouse cannot own their separate property or that one may destroy the property of the other because it’s community property.

    • I don’t believe they are going to get any money out of the lawsuit, except possibly nuisance value.

    • Malisha says:

      Let Jeralyn represent him on his divorce; she can pro hac in on some goofus’s bar license and stand by her man.

  18. Valerie says:

    Link for Christi O’Connor…investigative journalist

    Some interesting stuff here.

    • Rachael says:

      Interesting – it says: “…O’Mara has resigned as George’s divorce attorney as well.”

      That seems to say that he was going to represent him. Someone said he wasn’t and actually couldn’t – but how can you resign from something you don’t sign to?

      • Trained Observer says:

        Rachael — O’Connor, in her blog, sez O’Mara “resigned” from repping Fogen in the divorce, and “declined” to handle Monday’s fracas.

        Monday’s stupidity may have been MOM’s perfect lever for bailing … the CNN, which is keeping him busy, was a conflict, anyway.

        Bet Fogen’s new divorce attorney demands the money up front.

    • lurker says:

      This–posted 9/3, struck me as very revealing:]

      “Shellie’s not just a witness. She’s been victimized by George’s dark side many times. While in hiding as the trial crawled near, George did not go to a doctor. He’d been on an anti- depressant for good reason. Shellie is neat around the house. George wasn’t. One day, he decided he was sick of her laundry room drawer being kept more organized than his. He flew into a rage. He ripped the drawer from its hinges as he also threw Shellie’s purse to the ground, ensuring all her personal items scattered. But, at least, she wasn’t hungry.

      “On another of George’s bad days, she recalls returning from the grocery store with full bags and an appetite for a good meal. But George was in one of his, “Baker Act” states of mind. He took one look at the groceries and began screaming shrapnel, ordering her to take every item back to the store. Humiliated and heart broken, Shellie complied. As Floridians know, “The Baker Act” is the state statute that allows one to “involuntarily commit” someone who appears to have a mental illness or is considered a safety threat to himself or to others. “I almost Baker-Acted him,” Shellie told me, dysphorically shrugging her shoulders.”

      This guy is sick. Dangerously sick.

  19. groans says:

    I just got around to listening to Shellie’s 911 call recording. Is there only one recording that’s been released?

    I ask because, based on the conversation I heard, the recording does not start from the beginning. Shellie had placed at least one previous call, but then her phone went dead and she called back using her dad’s phone. The dispatcher says she tried to call Shellie back in the interim, but only got Shellie’s voice mail.

    So the recording doesn’t start at the beginning of Shellie’s report. The dispatcher already knew who and where Shellie was and what was going on and said cops were on their way. In other words, it’s an incomplete representation of Shellie’s entire 911 report.

    Incomplete information always raises suspicion in my mind. Why not release the entire 911 information, even if it is on multiple recordings?

    Does anyone know if the other recordings are also available somewhere (and I’ve just not found them)? Thanks.

    • elle says:

      I have only seen the one recording, and I could not agree more. Incomplete is not acceptable. Why have they not released it all?

    • towerflower says:

      It may not have anything on it, it might have connected and then lost due to dead battery. 911 dispatcher will call back to the number to see if everything is ok.

    • dee truth says:

      I was curious about that too.from the first time *I heard the 92nd) call. So far, no one has even mentioned the first call,.

  20. ay2z says:

    WESH video story speculates on a year in jail for SZ if she’s charged and found at fault for the incident..

    • ay2z says:

      Reports say police say GZ had every legal right to take the iPad and to destroy it.

      He had a lot of rights, to hide and lie about his gun, police covered for him.

      • ay2z says:

        (does that mean anyone who has a media video camera turned in their direction, can take it and destroy it too?

        • lurker says:

          They are relying on community property–it was his as much as hers and he could do what he wanted with it.

          • Dave says:

            Even to the point of wresting it away from her, depriving Shellie of HER right to do what she wanted with it?

          • pat deadder says:

            So fogen could do what he wanted with the ipad because it was community property but won’t he have to pay for her half at least since he smashed it.

      • Jeanette says:

        Just chiming in here with a bit of personal experience in DV and divorce in the not-so-great state of Florida. My understanding is that once a petition for dissolution of marriage has been filed, disposing of joint marital assets, in addition to a host of other treatments regarding said assets, is strictly prohibited and violations dealt with in the context of the divorce proceeding.

        I’ve also been on the flip side where, prior to filing for dissolution, the destruction of joint marital assets was deemed perfectly legal (by law enforcement in that case).

        I guess my point is that I think his destruction of the iPad was not lawful but, unfortunately, it may remain a civil matter unless Shellie brings the matter before the judge overseeing the divorce and that judge issues a confirming order against such conduct.

      • groans says:

        It seems to me that merely destroying or discarding marital property is one thing. Snatching it away from a spouse who is using it at the time and destroying it is a significantly different thing.

        Carrying the concept to its extreme, I would find it rather bizarre to suppose that a spouse might have “every legal right” to march through a marital home and destroy every bit of marital property in it. I mean, after all, there’s another person who has as much of a half-interest in the property as the destroyer has. So, where might a line be drawn between destroying an iPad and destroying a household of marital property?

        I think the police should probably restrict their analysis and comments to criminal code violations, rather than declaring what someone has “every legal right” to do. Especially in a situation like this, where an important consideration regarding “legal rights” may likely be whether CAC has been served with Shellie’s divorce papers.

        I think it’s a safe bet that CAC has actual notice of Shellie’s divorce petition, but I’d love to know whether CAC has been properly served with notice, or not. (And it could get particularly interesting if MOM accepted service of process on behalf of CAC.)

        • lurker says:

          In my experience, police give really bad legal advice, generally based on which things they have seen prosecuted and which ones not.

          They have some protocols that keep their own department in the clear (if followed), and their spokesperson did a pretty good job of explaining those. Gets a little grey when it comes to stopping short of getting a warrant (or asking) to search the truck for the gun, but even had they done so, it looks mighty grey when it comes to bringing a charge based on that–because nobody could say that he ever took it out. Threatening? Menacing? perhaps.

          And odds are this incident has gotten far more police attention than 99% of DV calls they get.

  21. Valerie says:

    I held out on judging the state regarding this trial…but this seals the deal. Angie Corey threw the case and for what ??? She is hated for the mere fact she brought the case…why not win it and shame the devil ?

  22. Valerie says:

    Bombshell ?? ME in Trayvon Martin case is suing…states he wanted to give evidence that Fogen was not on the bottom when he shot Trayvon…he states the State Attorney office was in on the coverup and are now using him as a scapegoat.

    What comes to mind is something never discussed at trial…Bullet trajectory.

    • KA says:

      I feel so fooled about this trial. I really thought the State was a bulldog for justice…I really thought GZ would be convicted due to the fact he had to be on top…which excluded self defense. I was so disappointed that did not come out. It makes me more upset that the ME had evidence of that.

      I am as upset as I was at the trial outcome. Disaster after disaster and a murderer runs free creating havoc wherever he goes…seemingly never accountable for a single action.

      • KA says:

        …not to mention those in society defending this murderer’s self proclaimed right to hunt down, shoot, and kill an unarmed black kid

    • groans says:

      Too bad Bao lost all his credibility during the trial. (Or was that, too, part of “the plan”?)

      From the linked article:

      Through his high-profile attorney, he [Dr. Bao] claims the medical examiner, state attorney’s office, and Sanford Police Department were all biased against Martin.

      “He says their general attitude was that he got what he deserved,” Attorney Willie Gary told Channel 9.

      Gary said Dr. Bao was made to be a scapegoat and was wrongfully fired from the medical examiner’s office. He said his client was prepared to offer proof that Martin was not the aggressor.

      “He was in essence told to zip his lips. ‘Shut up. Don’t say those things,'” Gary said.

      Gary said prosecutors never asked Dr. Bao a question crucial to their case.

      “He wanted a question that would have allowed him to explain to the jury with scientific evidence how there was no way Trayvon Martin could have been on top of George Zimmerman,” Gary said.

      Gary said that question never came.

      • kllypyn says:

        They had all the evidence at their disposal. they had to have known Trayvon was not the aggressor. If what he say is true they lied to the martin family and they chose to botch the case on purpose. they heard his last screams for god sake. WTF

      • Valerie says:

        IMO,Rachael Jentel and Bao were targeted by Don West for their “speaking abilities”. We saw what he did to Rachael. I believe Bao was sensitive to Don West manner of questioning and pretending not to be able to understand. Therefore he prepared notes in case he became flustered…however he prolly ” have read from them…lol. I hope he wins his case and follow up with a book on his findings.

      • Rachael says:


      • boyd says:

        he never should have been hired. cannot have a medical examiner with his english language skills and demeanor testifying..

        “I here to tell truth”. wtf? that was right out of a charley chan moive..

        The other dr foreign born had her shit toigether.

        • Two sides to a story says:

          The court could have supplied an interpreter so he could speak in his first language if necessary.

        • I disagree.

          He could have been and should have been instructed on how to testify. I’ve done that many times for witnesses who did not speak English very well and who were not familiar with our legal system.

          He believed he could come to court and read a report and no one told him otherwise.

          • MDH says:

            That is very common in patent law. I would say that 40% of all inventors of key technology in the USA speak broken English. It is up to the attorney to translate complex technical data provided by an expert with arguments that can be clearly understood by a layman.

            For example, Bao, being a scientist, assumed that any engineer worth his salt will see that give the following facts:

            The shot trajectory was a right angle; and

            The vector of a bullet fired from a handgun follows the line of action of the shooters forearm;

            then it is a geometric impossibility for Trayvon to have been on top with his hand proximate George’s head.

            LMppA (sp?) provided drawing {the best way to convey complex technical subjects} here to convey what I just wrote.

            Why did the prosecution just let a man who speaks broken English try to do that without some instructions.

            They could have told him to make a drawing.

    • kllypyn says:

      SOMETHIG WHICH SHOULD HAVE BEEN DISCUSED AT THE TRIAl although i’m sure the jurors had access to the ballistics report. I have never seen a trial where some\one was shot dead where they didn’t mention the trajectory of the bullet.

    • MDH says:

      It is simple geometry. The forensic report noted entry at a right angle to the plane of the chest. A bullet trajectory vector tracks the direction of the shooters forearm. So how would George be able to fit his entire forearm in front of his body such that he can make a right angle shot, if Trayvon is on top proximate enough to be holding Georges head?

      And how many perfect English speakers really understood what I just wrote that would be instantly understood by an Engineer.

      In patent law, we use a drawing to give light to argued text.

      And Lmppa did that for us on this site.

      But the prosecution did nothing to help prepare Bao.

      IMO, Bao is the fall guy left hung out to dry because the racists can fall back on the stupid Asian who can’t speak perfect English meme to blame their failure on him, if subsequent events show that they did let a deluded nut case off.

      Thankfully, Bao has decided not to go down without a fight.

      We need to know why there were not drawing and diagrams to clearly present things such as that provided here by a prosecution that had a year to prepare its case. It seem just like Bao says. They had their mind made up and went through the motions to make it look like they tried.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        This is explosive stuff if what Bao says is true about the state telling him to shut up . . . and from what we saw during the trial with the way the prosecution behaved and handled witnesses, he very well could be right.

      • a2nite says:


        Good for Dr. Bao

    • Malisha says:

      Excellent! WOW I am so thrilled! (Uh Oh I hope this is not also a ruse…)

    • Girlp says:

      The trial was fixed.

      • @Girlp:

        The Doctor alleges that the trial was fixed? SURPRISE SURPRISE! Those of us who post here, knew that already! I have already e-mailed the DOJ in regard to thiis case! What a disgrace this is! I hope that the Doctor watches his back before he finds himself with a bullet in his back! The trial was fixed and those wfio are responisble for fixing it, are very dangerous people! They will not stop to silence the Doctor in their quest to keep this under wraps and not to be exposed for their part in this fake ass trial!

  23. Rachael says:

    Why would Shellie lie about money for GZ if he wasn’t guilty? I mean why would they move it around and say they didn’t have it and the whole passport thing? She admitted she lied about it – why would she have if there wasn’t something there? LIKE GUILT?!!!! OMG – I am so upset by all of this.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Well, looking at it from the Fogen supporter POV of railroading – perhaps Shellie truly felt he was being railroaded by the system. She knew what personal problems she had with him, but perhaps she truly bought his story lock, stock and barrel. Dysfunctional relationships are all mixed up like that. Yearning for love is often confused as love.

  24. Sounds like we got a couple of lurkers rejecting common sense. I will explain it from a personal experience:

    I was giving my drunk ex a ride back from a club with my current girlfriend in the car with me. She flipped out and started throwing things and with her bare foot she kicks my front windshield spiderwebbing it. Then she calls the police and says I beat her up even though my current girlfriend was in the back seat witnessing the whole thing, the police was there seconds later while she was on the phone. They did the same thing they did with George, my hands up then they searched me and kept me separate while taking a statement from each individual. No mention of a weapon and they definitely didn’t ask permission but I just simply submitted to having my truck searched while laying face down on a wet ground before they even took my statement. They subsequently arrested her because in Washington they have to by law, arrest someone on a domestic call.

    Shellie said there was a gun involved and they didn’t even search his truck, I genuinely find that hard to believe. The fact that they said they didn’t pursue a warrant means they had no intention of searching his truck because they never even asked him. So this by itself lets me know that this is more about protecting law enforcement than protecting GZ.

    • lurker says:

      Leroy, Leroy, Leroy. Not sure exactly what to make of your story of the drunken ex and girl friend and the police–except that was probably a bad idea all the way around. But, I am beginning to pick up some clues about some of those Florida communities and their PDs and that is that they’re getting mighty tired of gz, and at this point they realize he’s a walking disaster and they’d be just as happy if he moved on.

      They knew whose house they were being called to and they were certainly not surprised. An overinflated idiot who advertises that he is armed (and has a history of encounters) is enough of a problem. Throw in a divorce and it’s like gasoline on a fire. And no matter what happens it will be on the national news. Eats up resources and drives people away.

      Whatever they do they’re gonna be careful and by the book–until they are sure they can make it stick.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Neighboring property owners are likely pissed off that the Z house is now known far and wide.

        • Trained Observer says:

          Department of motor vehicles demands reporting of address changes and there’s a tidy fee for issuing updated replacements.
          Seemingly little stuff like that can add up fast to embellish their debt load.

          She-Lie might be best off by moving to a shelter for abused women until her divorce is final and she’s off probation. Perhaps she could do her 100 hours of community service internally at the shelter.

    • Malisha says:

      They should also have taken down all details of the individuals who were with Fogen, and searched the entire premises, with permission from the people who had called the police.

  25. lurker says:

    Christi O’Connor’s blog has a couple of new entries. Shellie (from her pre-divorce-filing interview) provides specifics of abuse–a tantrum that included tearing a drawer out and scattering the contents and making Shellie take a load of groceries back to the store and return them. But–she was still reticent to touch any speculation about what he might have been capable of with regard to Trayvon. Really sounded like it was too painful to think about.

    • boyd says:

      sounds like she’s profiting off Trayvon Martin. ater throw in a couple God references to sound sincere. Makes me sick

      • lurker says:

        May or may not be. I think her actual target is Sanford PD. Still–she has Shellie on tape (reluctantly) describing some rather clear instances of abuse–at least clear to an outsider and in retrospect. She also has the text exchange between g and s prior to his being ‘surprised’ to find her there.

        This is not someone to be trusted. He is an adroit liar and he sucks people into sticking up for him.

        Just like you’ve been suckered.

    • ay2z says:

      yeah, could be someone one would not want to think about re Trayvon’s encounter and death. She has to sleep with him and keep him in a happy mood with the ‘cutie pie’ talk. And try to avoid a trip wire of his anger.

      • boyd says:

        if it has no relevance to the murder its unimportant. For she said she believes him.

        Or they’re saving it all or the big money making moment final episode.

    • Rachael says:

      I’m sure he would kill her if she said anything, though I’m not sure he won’t even if she doesn’t.

      • Girlp says:

        I agree Rachael.

      • pat deadder says:

        When Shelley commited perjury wasn’t she with the Zimmerman clan.Maybe that scared her..I just don’t know I can’t wrap my head around these people involved in this whole coverup for a murder including everyone from top to the bottom.
        What was the point.I just don’t get it.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      @lurker — keep your eye on that space. i am.

      even though there is no subscribe button, it is a wordpress blog and you can copy the URL, go to your wordpress settings and use the URL to subscribe to new entries.

    • Malisha says:

      Not “too painful to think about.” Simply not in her interests to mention. She’s an exploitive, lying, lazy, collusive, murderous “wifey-girl” who deserved the husband she might have married.

    • jm says:

      lurker says: “But–she was still reticent to touch any speculation about what he might have been capable of with regard to Trayvon. Really sounded like it was too painful to think about.”

      Too “painful” for Shellie to think about? Shellie stood by her killer man, tried to hide money from the court and lied under oath for her and GZ to live the “good” life and once again interjected herself during the trial by trying to get Tracy Martin, the boy’s father who her husband murdered, thrown out of court. That wasn’t too painful for her to do.

      ShelLIE is a lazy, untalented and unintelligent con, not unlike GZ. What is painful to ShelLIE is that GZ dumped her and may or may not have a new idiot girlfriend to add fuel to ShelLIE’s fire. On top of that she may not share in future earnings from GZ’s lawsuit against NBC.

      ShelLIE has no conscience or character and only feels bad for herself.

      • lurker says:

        For her to admit that George’s whole defense was a lie, and she supported him through it, makes her responsible in part for him getting off. That is a pretty heavy admission.

        Baby steps.

        First let her deal with how much manuky she took from him without deserving it. That’s pretty tough all by itself. Then she can maybe begin to look at whether she bears any responsibility for his getting off free for murdering Trayvon Martin, what she knew and when she knew it.

        She is by no means a perfect specimen, but she seems to be fairly intelligent. Yes, she is going to have to let go of any dreams she had of resuming a normal life, or even a monied one (assuming the NBC suit is winnable–something that I doubt). And while she doe so, George will continue to be George, irrational, inconsiderate, dishonest–and sporting a new girl on his arm.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @lurker — have to agree with much of your comment. she has just come to the painful realization that she too was used and abused by george (who we know uses and abuses just about everyone). this process is not quick or easy, she has a lot of work to do on just herself while coming to grips with the fact that her entire marriage was a sham.

          she may get around to revealing more, i hope that she does, but i do not expect too much too soon. her main focus must be on herself at this point, putting her life back together and starting with the basics — such as starting over with half of what she had before, supporting herself, and a whole lot of emotional recovery.

          the bottom line will always be though that she was not there, she only knows what her lying sack o’crap husband told her. up until right now, it was easier for her to accept his story (and most spouses would be do the same). getting to the point where she can speak freely and free from past baggage is going to take time.

        • jm says:

          Lurker says: “For her to admit that George’s whole defense was a lie, and she supported him through it, makes her responsible in part for him getting off. That is a pretty heavy admission. Baby steps.”

          The truth will set ShelLIE free and there are no baby steps involved in facing the truth.

          ShelLIE did have a role in getting GZ off as the wife who stood by her man and helped him in his deception regarding hiding money for their “good” life.

          She continued her underhanded ways when trying to get Tracy Martin kicked out of court. She is a lazy lying greedy weasel. She made extremely bad decisions (motivated by greed and perhaps her own racist point of view) and now karma has come knocking at her door in the form of GZ turning on her and now she has the same fears regarding GZ.that Trayvon had.

  26. jodiwankanobi says:

    i wish shellies father ‘stood his ground’.

    • Brandy says:

      me too.

    • ay2z says:

      Problem is, if he stood his ground with his hands and self-defense skills, he better have been prepared for a gun to the chest.

      • Nef05 says:

        If my son-in-law had a history of DV, had a valid carry license, road rage, murdered an unarmed teen, my daughter had just filed for divorce after giving public interviews, and then he showed up, and you allegedly worked for LMPD???

        He’d have a BIG problem. Castle Doctrine, and he’s a white man with a white daughter.

  27. Brandy says:

    I am hoping that some of the people in Georgies camp will finally decide to come forward and tell the truth about George’s racist views and any other info they have on this lowlife to the Feds. Praying for people in the know to grow a conscience and do what is right. By doing so I believe they could save a life or lives. One can hope.

  28. ay2z says:

    Anybody think the body guard, posted at GZ’s driver’s door when cops cameras rolled up, had enough time and distance to put the gun in his clothing somewhere, and head off to the yard where he could not be seen?

    He could easily have removed the firearm and taken it to a safe hiding place, or left it on his person.

    And about a search warrant for the vehicle, how hard to get a limited warrant to look for the gun? Did the police even search through the windows from the outside to see what might be in view?

    Nope. SZ had reason to believe there was a gun on her husband and he could even have led her to believe that he was carrying in a holster as usual.

    • Brandy says:

      Like a lawyer said today on MSNBC, the cops dropped the ball when all they had to do is ask George…. can we search your car? The cops did not do that. If George had said NO to his truck being searched, then they should of got a warrant.

      • boyd says:

        and then what? they all said they did not see a gun, Shelly, the dad and the other witnesses and Florida allows him to carry.

        He pulled it off again and she is caught lying again(No gun as she claimed). Then her lawyer tells her not to press charges which can be construed as I can’t press charges because I lied.

        Next Z-man sues the sheet out of her, I would The cops were ready to blow his head off.

        and no one hates him more than me.

        • ay2z says:

          How did O’Mara know he definitely had a gun holstered on his body? Why wouldn’t this lawyer ask where the gun is at that point?

        • elcymoo says:


          I didn’t see or hear Shellie claiming that either she or her dad ever SAW a gun. O’Mara, who visited the site, said on CNN later that George did have one, holstered as usual, but it stayed under his shirt. I’m sure that Shellie, who knows that her husband always has a gun, believed that he had it in his vehicle when he was taunting her to ‘step closer’.

          So where is the lie? It’s obvious that GZ did destroy her iPad as she told the 911 dispatcher, which lends credibility to her account.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @boyd –neither the police, not zimmerman’s lawyer, nor our esteemed host here nor lowly little me think shellie lied about the gun. his behavior inside the house indicated that he at the very least was implying he had one, he spent enough time in his truck before the police arrived to stash it and the police admit that they did not search his truck.

          there is no ‘lie’ here.

          • towerflower says:

            During her 911 call she says that he is in his truck.
            She also said he is touching the gun. Now if his is reaching over to his side and tapping the area that he normally carries his gun then it would be safe to assume that he is touching his gun. I believe her.

            This is a man who says he carries everywhere except for when he was at work. He had it when he was pulled over for speeding, his attorney said he was carrying. I believe Shellie and believe that when he knew the cops were coming he took off his holster/gun and either stashed it in his glove compartment or gave it to his ex/now again girlfriend to hold and then lied to the cops about having a gun. This is a paranoid man and now he is going to go out and about in Seminole county and not be armed? I don’t think so.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @towerflower — i’m with you on this.

      • Jeanette says:

        So very much in agreement with you, Brandy.

        They have a report of a domestic violence incident involving a gun and don’t exhaust every possible means to insure he did not have a gun on his person or in his constructive possession (via his vehicle)? Even if for their own safety?

        If the report was about some random person and drugs, that vehicle would have been searched. Even if it took a warrant to do so.

    • lurker says:

      I just watched the complete version of the released surveillance viideo. The bodyguard protected George from Shellie while he tore up the i-pad. Also saw George taking photos of truck contents–as well as Shellie going to the frlnt door and finding it suddenly locked.

      Can’t give Shellie any diplomacy points. But tearing up an i-pad is pretty aggressive stuff. Took him awhile to dl it too.

  29. boyd says:

    before you fall all over shellie’s ‘under the covers’ hint hint I’m a battered Woman syndrome remember she’s taking money to talk about…., about what? about what, tell me.

    She’s a nobody making money off Trayvon’s death.with that lady reporter..

    And she made a mistake telling Police he had a gun, if anyone saw the video of the Police putting Fogen under custody, The Police went there with guns drawn READY TO SHOOT, WATCH IT.. She cannot make a claim then back off with no charges. I understand why the Police chief wants to hang someone over this.

    • lurker says:

      The second police presser clarified. She did not see the gun. This was not a contradiction or backing down. On the tape she says he kept putting his hand on it. When police arrived they asked her if she SAW it. Then they asked George if he was carrying and he said no. According to police this combination took away the probable cause, which prevented further search after the house and his person.

      O’Mara’s statement sounds like a big slip up–covering for info he thought the police already believed.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      boyd — in the press conference, the police were quite clear that if george was holding his hand on where his gun was holstered (and his lawyer confirmed this) that would be perceived as an actual threat. shellie has every reason to suspect that he is in fact carrying a gun in the spot where she knows for years that he carries.

      they were quite clear that there was not going to be any charges against shellie for making that statement.

    • cielo62 says:

      Boyd- then hang the cops that didn’t bother to look in the truck for that damned gun that we know he had!

      Sent from my iPad

  30. CessnaDriver says:

    Let’s face actual acts:

    Unless this remorseless killer murders an white cop and eats the cop’s entrails in public, the police will always back him up.

    • Yeah, this is the truth. How can they declare with certainty that no gun was involved when they didn’t even get a warrant to search his truck. Here is what is most telling, all they have to do is ask GZ if they can search his truck and if he says no, then that is pertinent information that should be in a police report, if he says yes, then they were incompetent for not searching his truck. But to declare that a gun wasn’t in use and then no mention of a knife clearly shows them in GZ’s corner.

      • boyd says:

        she could have said it’s in the car, too it’s her life.

        She has to be accurate. saying he has a gun and saying he’s motioning he has a gun two separate things.

        Those cops took her word he had a gun. People get killed when people make assumptions like that.

        i predict they’ll find nothing serious and she may face charges or get sued by zimmerman..
        i wish she caught the Zimmerman I think he is. but he’s too smart to get caught.

      • Dave says:

        Nobody reported seeing, hearing, or feeling a gun. Nobody stated that GZ explicitly said that he had a gun or would shoot anyone. Therefore there was no probable cause for a legal search.

        • Dave says:

          Unlike the Sanford police following the murderof Trayvon Martin, the St. Mary’s police appear to have handled this incident by the book.

        • Malisha says:

          Remember, on 2/26/2012, Fogen “felt like [Trayvon Martin] saw [his] gun.”

          What Fogen FEELS LIKE has a lot to do with what happens in the world.

          That’s a factor of the “law as applied” in Florida.

    • Nef05 says:


  31. neveragain says:

    So if she made him know that she was there …y did he go there….to show off his new girlfreind….or to prevent Shellie from taking certain things like the TV…and wny did he volunteer surveillance video information to the cops but smashed the equipment that Shellie was using to record the altercation

  32. Trained Observer says:

    iPad destruction aside, some commenters are claiming She-Lie recorded some Fogen action on her iPhone. Possible?

    As for Seminole County hotshots examining the broken iPad, remember these are the same screwups who couldn’t access Trayvon’s phone.

    • Thrace says:

      While GZ is tearing up the IPAD, Shellie walks over and hands her dad? (a man) something and then they either tape or take a pic of GZ.

    • I fully expect them to say the video is completely unrecoverable. Whether that statement is true or not, that’s what I expect from them. These guys showing a hot tempered Zimmerman is not something they want.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      @TO who says

      As for Seminole County hotshots examining the broken iPad, remember these are the same screwups who couldn’t access Trayvon’s phone.

      two things —

      1. recovery of data from the apple OS is easy, i can do it. there are simple recovery programs available as long as you have the password (which no one had with martin’s phone).

      2. shellie is not black.

      i think that both of these will work in her favor.

      • Trained Observer says:

        @faux — Two fine points, thanks. (Wonder if the Fogens will buy the new iPhones unveiled yesterday? Only the best for those two, ya know.)

  33. groans says:

    I don’t understand why there are different reports of Shellie’s dad’s name. For example, ABC’s story that’s linked here a couple / few times refers to him as “Colin Morgan”:

    Lake Mary police spokesman Zach Hudson said that George Zimmerman and Shellie’s father, Colin Morgan, got into an altercation….

    I’ve also seen non-“Dean” names referring to Shellie’s dad in some earlier reports about this incident (can’t remember who / where). Yet, the real estate records and other reports refer to him as “David Dean.”

    Does anyone here understand what’s up with the different names used when referring to Shellie’s dad?

    • Thrace says:

      Publishing screw up. Colin Morgan works for the Lake Mary Police Department.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      @groans — i cannot answer to any inconsistencies in reporting. i can confirm that shellie’s maiden name is ‘dean’ which would make ‘david dean’ and the brother we saw interviewed the other day, also with the same last name as the right folks.

  34. Thrace says:

    If anyone is watching JVM on HLN there is much more to that tape than what she is showing. The part she is showing and basing her theory off is only about a 1 or 2 minutes after he showed up. The whole tape is a little over 13 minutes long.

  35. Shellie is afraid. She’s afraid that Fogen will counter-claim her in the domestic charge. She’s at a disadvantage in that she is on probation and a new charge would get her papers rolled back. Fogen has no such threat to his independence and they both know it.

  36. Sophia33 says:

    Someone made a good point on HP just now. This altercation may show us some of the elements of what happened the night he killed Trayvon Martin. See how he took the iPad from Shellie. What if he took Trayvon’s cell phone and threw it to the ground?

  37. Thrace says:

    House surveillance camera. Not much happens till 3/4 into it. You can see Shellie walking around with the IPAD and it looks like at one point GZ is using his phone to tape too. Then finally you see GZ come back outside with the IPAD, mess around with it, his bodyguard/friend gets between him and the others – then GZ throws the IPAD on the driveway.

    • Sophia33 says:

      How did he get the iPad from Shellie?

      • Thrace says:

        Tussle inside the house or garage that didn’t show up on the house surveillance. The cops in the presser made some comment that it could be considered a weapon if it was raised at someone. The officer lifted his arm to demonstrate. So I guess that’s the story of what happened inside.

      • ay2z says:

        At one point, GZ went to the front door and without enough time to go inside, he walked away again. SZ went to the front door with her iPad, and seemed to have discovered the door locked, she turned and walked off but then started to run down the walk and headed to the right, to a garage where GZ had gone.

        When they appeared, SZ did not have the iPad, GZ got busy in front of SZ and two other guys, in ripping up the iPad and then tossed it to the ground.

        Hudson had made a comment that in a video, the iPad can be seen being tossed at someone as a weapon, but I did not see that, maybe there’s another video view not released.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Hmmm. Looks like a long, slow, Southern style confrontation. I don’t think Shellie helps herself by getting closer to the vehicle several times. If I was that scared as she sounded on the phone, I’d be holed up as far away as I could get.

  38. Rachael says:

    Professor L, can’t SOMEONE do something? I mean it is obvious the little liar’s father lied for him. Can’t someone say something, DO something??

    • Nef05 says:

      Florida has issues and attorneys back each other. That said – I want to know if the broken sequester with lawyer hubby and B-37 can be utiized. B-29 has more than once mentioned knowledge from wife of lawyer.

      A simple exam (with no notice) of 782.04 Murder.— (including felony capital – kidnapping), 776 – self defense and “stand your ground” (77.012, 776.013, 774.041 why was THIS original aggressor not in the instructions?) AND why B-37 referenced evidence that was NOT presented during trial. If she actually read them, then she knew them – otherwise hubby interfered in a sequestered trial, of which he was not on the jury. No jeopardy!

      I believe that’s not a valid trial, ergo – no double jeopardy, since he was never in jeopardy in the first place. IJS

      • Unfortunately, your argument won’t get anywhere and the prosecution certainly isn’t going to try to get a new trial after pulling the el foldo.

        • ladystclaire says:

          Professor, what is your take on why the prosecution never presented, the sealed evidence against this POS? also, it really makes no sense to me as to why, they dismantled Trayvon’s phone. what were they looking for, seeing that he was the victim here.

        • Nef05 says:

          I take your point of the prosecution. However, her statement of evidence not shown in court, and (I believe) her lack of considerknowledge regarding the murder statute and also the 776 self-defense statute (including 776.041 original aggressor, use of force by, never given to the jury to consider ) would show Hubby violated sequester.

          Unfortunately, as you’ve pointed out- it won’t happen. Which is a shame since Zimmerman was never in jeopardy in the first place.

          Prof. Is there anything civilians can do, to show the trial was rigged from the beginning?

  39. Brandy says:

    You can tell juror B29 has a lot of guilt about her verdict regardless of what she is saying. I also believe she was bullied in the juror room too just by the way she answered her question.

    • Nef05 says:

      Don’t give an “ish”. Bullied or not, she could have stopped it, with no more consequences than a second trial.

      (Answer/anger absolutely not aimed at you, Brandy. Please take it in the spirit of foul anger toward B-29.)

  40. Brandy says:

    Hey Professor, I made an error in earlier comment on my address, please delete comment that is in moderation. Thank you

  41. Brandy says:

    Juror 29 gonna discuss what went on in the jury room during trial. Its on MSNBC right now

    • ladystclaire says:

      This woman IMO is going around trying to lighten her guilt, for helping a child murderer get away with his crime. there is nothing that she can say, that will make me feel nothing but contempt for her.

      When she should have been telling about what was taking place in that jury room, she chose to keep her mouth shut. so I don’t want to hear anything that she has to say now.

      • Tzar says:

        yup, I have already done my share of cursing on other threads on this board about this woman so I will refrain from polluting this thread too

        • ladystclaire says:

          LOL Tzar, she is full of it and, this guilt will forever be with her for the rest of her life. there is no other reason for her to be making the media rounds, talking about how she caved to pressure from B37 and other jurors, when she has a mind of her own.

          By her coming out trying to ease her guilt, by telling bits and pieces about what went on in that room, between these six women, is too little too late. a murderer walks free among us because, she allowed others to make up her mind for her.

          BTW, I don’t think Sybrina is none to enthused by this woman coming out and, apologizing for her guilt over helping the murderer of her child walk, and I don’t blame her.

          • Tzar says:

            I can never be sure if she really feels guilty or just fear of social reprisal. there are really sick people out there and she has shown herself capable of depravity as far as I am concerned. And I can only feel an iota of what Sybrina feels but it allows me to understand why she, as I do, could not give a rats ass about her guilt, what she wasted was justice and when you could have given it to her you balked, so fuck your short sighted guilt and go fuck yourself lady.

        • MichelleO says:

          BWAHAHAHAHAH! Good job. My only vice is my ability to cuss with private joy on an every day basis. I like cussing. Good job, Tzar! Cuss ’em all out!

      • cielo62 says:

        Ladystclaire- x 100!

        Sent from my iPad

        • @cielo63:

          I couldn’t agree more with you and Lady St. Claire! This ShelLIE is trying to make people feel sorry for her and lighten her guilt for standing by this child killer! She is just as guilty. I for one, do not feel the least bit sorry for her! I feel for the abused women on this thread because their pain is genuine! ShelLIE is a drama queen to the max! My pain and sorro is for Sybrina and Tracy who lost their son because of the actions of her demented crazy husband and her lies and lies by omission!

  42. Brandy says:

    Juror29 in on AL Sharptons show right now.

    • Nef05 says:

      “Bout time!!! Thanks for, at least, SOME good news, Xena! I, for one, needed it!!! 🙂

      • Trained Observer says:

        Volusia taxpayers likely want their county government employees to speak understandable English and stick to their stories when on the stand.

    • looneydoone says:

      Perhaps *this* is what’s needed to gain attention from the Justice Dept. Dr Bao claims there was a general feeling that Trayvon “got what he deserved” amongst the SAO and SPD higher ups.
      In homicide cases, it’s the Chief Law Enforcement Official (State Atty) that has the authority to order (and in this case, expedite) autopsy, and it’s scope (full, partial, direct). The fact that neither SA or SPD bothered to send a representative to be present during the autopsy of Trayon strengthens the claim there was no interest in investigating this as a murder. Moreover, Trayvon’s body could not be claimed by his family until positive identification had been furnished to the ME’s office…Trayvon’s ID was known some few hours after he was murdered, yet SPD didn’t bother notifying the ME’s office of same until Wed 29 Feb at approx 12:30pm via fax…48+ hours after autopsy had taken place.

  43. MDH says:

    In a just world, George would be on all fours somewhere on the banks of the Cahulawassee River.

    • Nef05 says:

      “But, but, but …” Weak ass B1tch!!! She SAID, *these educated women (B-37) who read the law and consort with “lawyer husband”, AGAINST Judge Nelson’s specific sequester instructions! I don’t think B-37 read JACK – I think she parroted her lawyer hubby.

      So she couldn’t READ the law for herself, is she illiterate that she keeps saying “the law was READ” to me”. I haven’t been this furious since the non guilty verdict that WE knew was going to lead to this type of thing. WTF!!!

      I apologize for my language, but I am SO furious! WHO didn’t see this coming???!!??? She KNEW he was guilty, and she LET herself be bullied. The only minority, and she couldn’t even “stand HER and TRAYVON’S ground”. I don’t know a single woman HERE that would have let that BS bullying “I’m married to a lawyer, so I know the law” happen! EVERYONE saw the pattern of violence before Trayvon.

      I hope they rot in HELL! Punk @$$ racists.

      I am as angry as the not guilty verdict. We SAW this coming!!!!

      Sonuvabitch!!! WE SAW it, and they called US racists…

      (Hypothetical) I’m from Detroit – and people like this “git GOT!!!”.

      See ya – wouldn’t wanna be ya, asshat!!!!!

      Apologies, Prof, C-S and fellow posters. My anger is beyond all control. Take responsibility for your BS verdict, or STFU. Stop blaming others. YOU COULD HAVE STOPPED THIS BS!!!

      • cielo62 says:

        Nef05- PREACH IT!!! Stupid bitch! I hope the guilt eats her alive!

        Sent from my iPad

        • Rachael says:

          I hope it does too. AFAIC, she is as guilty as GZ. Not that a guilty verdict would bring Trayvon back, but it would not only have been justice, it might prevent another person getting hurt or killed here in the (perhaps very) near future.

      • elle says:

        Nef, my husband was a jury foreman, and he had to read EVERYTHING to the other jurors. If they had a question, the bailiff gave him a piece of paper, and he read it to the other jurors.

        • Too bad Florida isn’t like Washington State where they give each juror a copy of the instructions.

          • elle says:

            I am in Wisconsin, Professor, but it really freaked my husband out,. He would have never agreed to be foreman if he realized how much control he would have of the information. It made him very uncomfortable. It does sound like this is how they handle info in Florida, but I do not actually know that.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            Must have been some other weak women as well, or they all had their minds made up except b-37, who seems to be unbelievably passive.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            Ooops, I probably meant 29, yes?

          • racerrodig says:

            In NJ they do and if a verdict is reached because the instructions, or something the judge said was in error, it can be retried. It can also be appealed and retried.

            Because B37 said they did not like the way he was arrested and there was one other thing (at least) she said that showed they arrived at a verdict on something not in evidence, he could be retired. My dad was involved in a case where that happened. It took a few years before it was all brought out, but out it came.

        • Nef05 says:

          I sympathize with your Hubby’s delimma, Elle. But, I have a question – in what court in the land is the jury, responsibl e for rendering a verdict unanimously, NOT allowed access to the law the defendant is charged with? Your hubby, notwithstanding, it makes no sense. Foremans are human. They can make errors reading the law as anyone else. Especially, since they’re no in the legal profession, generally.

          • elle says:

            Exactly! He was terrified he would accidentally say one word wrong and change someone’s life unfairly. And, he has very little knowledge of the law. We have no way of knowing what might have been read incorrectly to the other jurors in this case (if the instructions are handled like this in Florida).

      • groans says:

        @Nef05 – It appears you watched Al Sharpton’s show (Politics Nation) tonight, too. I still can’t cut that juror any slack, either.

        “Poor Lil’ Good-Hearted Maddy B-29” wants SO badly to be on the “right” side of everything having to do with George Zimmerman. But her very huge problem is that she was one of very few people on this Earth who actually had an opportunity to do something right. Something just.

        Yet, she voted AGAINST her common sense and sound judgment. She thereby placed herself squarely on the WRONG side of everything having to do with George Zimmerman, since her action ensured that he would be set free … and with a clean slate!

        That was HER doing … and the rest of us are forced to live with the foreseeable, prolonged fallout of her failure. So she can come on TV all she wants (though I don’t know why she needs that – or any – lawyer by her side). But I don’t give much of a flip about what she has to say.

        In my view, she’s clearly unable or unwilling to admit (so far) that she was, regrettably, too ignorant, too weak, and/or too intimidated to do the right thing. I fear that Maddy B-29 may go to her grave insisting that “the law” prevented her from doing the right thing as a juror (NOT!).

        She will never, ever, EVER be able to feel OK about her jury duty, because she squandered it!

        For that, I feel for her. I would not want that heavy kind of regret weighing me down through life. But that’s something she needs to work through with a counselor or a pastor. And AFTER she’s engaged in some frank and honest self-reflection, maybe she’ll have something meaningful to contribute to TV discussions.

      • ladystclaire says:

        Amen Nef05, and I feel the same way you do because, Trayvon was a child who was bothering nothing and nobody, when his life was taken from him. it’s was so very obvious that the prosecution wasn’t into this to get a conviction against this murderer of a child.

        This murderer has single handedly brought out the worse of the racist in this country, who have smeared, slandered and, vilified this child’s character. there is a person on facebook, who has been using the photo of Trayvon’s dead body as his avatar. I don’t understand why facebook would allow this to happen but, they do. I’m going to see if I can find out who I can discuss this with because, this needs to stop.

        How would these people feel, if by chance some AA got death photos of the Newtown kids death photos and used them in such a harsh manner, how would they feel? the same goes for photos of the victims of James Holmes. they are taking this shit too damn far and, it needs to stop. George Zimmerman is nothing but a trouble making bastard who is being hero worshiped by his fellow racist. and to think, there is some dumb ass black man, who is being used as his body guard. smdh

  44. Rachael says:

    Why the FUCK – excuse my language – or not – is all this coming out now, AFTER the fact??!!! We all knew it before the fact, why wasn’t it told?!!!!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Because they wanted to get him off. Now there’s nothing in it for them.

    • Sophia33 says:

      I feel you.

      Remember Donnelly? It has taken this to turn against him. B37 said that she found Donnelly’s testimony to be truthful. Now Donnelly is starting to spill the beans.

    • a2nite says:

      They had to protect SYG & protect a murderer because he was the good guy like Malisha said, done & done.

    • Tzar says:

      My answer:
      because he killed a black boy
      the worse of a person he was the more critical it was to get him off because the more they feel the message that: there is nothing worse, less valuable or less redeemable than the black personage, would resonate throughout the consciousness of the society.

  45. Sophia33 says:

    Remember John Donnelly? The man from the Zimmerman trial who called Zimmie (a son)? Well now he is saying that Georgie is a ticking time bomb and pointed out his affair with his ex-fiance.

    • Sophia33 says:


      “According to John Donnelly, a good friend of the Zimmermans and the witness who told the jury that he views George as a son, the man who shot and killed Trayvon Martin is actually stepping out on his wife with his ex-fiancee.
      “George has been having an affair with his ex-fiancee. Shellie believes it flared back up after the acquittal.”
      But it’s the shocking confession from Donnelly’s wife, Leanne Benjamin, about the man she and her husband took care of in the year leading up to the trial (buy buying him clothes and food) that suggested that George may have been the aggressor (despite his claims that he was defending himself against Shellie).
      Benjamin said she’s relieved about Monday’s incident because she believes Zimmerman is a ticking time bomb.
      “I’m relieved. He was a powder keg waiting to blow… I feel relieved now that he…might get some quiet time and some psychological help,” she said.
      “If he had run into a stranger and got into an altercation he might have hurt someone or ended up hurt or dead himself.”
      Remember, these were the same people who painted Zimmerman as a docile man who was acting in self-defense when he shot an unarmed teenager. Weird.”

      If he had run into a stranger? ARE THESE PEOPLE SERIOUS?! What do they happened the night he MURDERED Trayvon?


  46. Brandy says:

    TMZ has the dash cam recording of cops with guns drawn on Georgie, telling him to get on his knees as they handcuff him. Too bad he wasn’t taken to jail!

  47. MDH says:

    Money and greed may also be a factor in Shellie’s decision. A guy in jail is not going to be able to pay anything.

    It pains me to see that total lack of ethics and honor within all of those who have been involved with helping or enabling George.

    And they had the temerity to question the ethics of Racheal and the Martins.

    I’d like to sock all of them in the face.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      It was all a grand projection. It is crumbling now.

    • towerflower says:

      I don’t agree, Fogen isn’t working and when he did it was minimal. Her filing is asking for half of whatever he gets from his lawsuits and if he is in jail I don’t see that being affected. MOM will still go after NBC and the potential for big bucks.

      I’m more inclined to side with Xena, on her blog, in which it was fear that kept her from filing. She is on probation and I can see fogen using that……file and I counter file saying you were the aggressor and struck me. I’ll be free and your probation will be revoked. The same applies if your father files.

  48. lurker says:

    BTW–the Medical Examiner has been fired.

  49. MDH says:

    Let me see here.

    George ruined Shellie’s life with his reckless behavior of being a self appointed cop want to be – Keep in mind that civil standards of evidence are not the same as criminal – and after she kept the faith for almost two years, he left her high and dry. That is going to play real well with a Divorce Court.

    Now I see why MOM is abandoning Titanic George.

  50. Boyd says:

    The memory chip can be saved easily, if that Police department does not destroy it first. No way it’s fried.

    The checks in the mail Prof.

  51. MDH says:

    George is going to get a lesson in divorce law. Play and you pay.

    Not all cases involve support from one spouse to the other. The obligation of one spouse to support the other financially for a temporary or permanent basis is decided on a case-by-case basis as agreed to by the parties or at the court’s discretion.

    In a proceeding for dissolution of marriage, the court may grant alimony to either party, which alimony may be rehabilitative or permanent in nature. In any award of alimony, the court may order periodic payments or payments in lump sum or both. The court may consider the adultery of either spouse and the circumstances thereof in determining the amount of alimony, if any, to be awarded.

    In determining a proper award of alimony or maintenance, the court shall consider all relevant economic factors, including but not limited to: (a) The standard of living established during the marriage. (b) The duration of the marriage. (c) The age and the physical and emotional condition of each party. (d) The financial resources of each party, the nonmarital and the marital assets and liabilities distributed to each. (e) When applicable, the time necessary for either party to acquire sufficient education or training to enable such party to find appropriate employment. (f) The contribution of each party to the marriage, including, but not limited to, services rendered in homemaking, child care, education, and career building of the other party. (g) All sources of income available to either party. The court may consider any other factor necessary to do equity and justice between the parties.

    To the extent necessary to protect an award of alimony, the court may order any party who is ordered to pay alimony to purchase or maintain a life insurance policy or a bond, or to otherwise secure such alimony award with any other assets which may be suitable for that purpose. (Florida Statutes – Chapters: 61.08)

    Gee whiz, the court can consider adultery by one of the spouses.

  52. lurker says:

    Lake Mary police were supposed to have a second presser at 5 pm. ClickOrlando has video and sound–but nothing seems to be happening. Did I miss it?

    • towerflower says:

      Came on at 5:55, still waiting on IPAD video to be retrieved. Explained that once Shellie and father said they never saw a gun they didn’t have probable cause to search his vehicle for a gun, says the legal issue changed when no gun was seen. Brief mention of IPAD could be used as a weapon. Spokesperson is now admitting that the father had a red mark on his nose but he didn’t go as far as to who made it. Responding to a question, he said that the destruction of the IPAD could be viewed as destruction of evidence and they will look into it. More will happen in the 6 hour.

      • groans says:


        Brief mention of IPAD could be used as a weapon.

        Geez, Louise!!
        Deja Vu, all over again!!

        Sounds a lot like: Trayvon Martin attacked CAC with a “deadly weapon” … the concrete sidewalk where CAC confronted Trayvon and (also eerily similarly) made a threatening hand movement towards his gun holster??!!

  53. a2nite says:

    I can’t feel too bad for Shellie the liar. She helped her evil husband.

    She has little credibility.

    As a human being I have a very small amount of pity.

    These evil people use a lot of taxpayer resources. What a waste.

    I hope something very violent happens to him that leaves him living & dependent, like a GSW to the neck leaving him a quad.

  54. The Shadow says:

    what’s next? Karma. He may think he’s invincible, but he ain’t. It’s coming.
    And just wait until little Georgie see’s what is waiting to greet him at the Flaming Gates of Hell. Oh yeah. And this time those screams for help really will be his. But it won’t do him any good. Just like Trayvon, not a soul will step forward.

  55. Trained Observer says:

    O’Mara dumps Fogen … so will Westlicker pick up the slack(er)?

  56. Woow! says:

    I remember the outhouse discussing the GZ fund and reported that he had received about 3 million. Does anyone know if that is true? Does MOM have to file a report to the court for that account? Who is controlling the money now that the case if over? MOM must be mad because he knows how much money CAC has and is not paying him. heeheee

    • Thrace says:

      I don’t think he received close to million. HLN reported today that he had received 536,000 and that surprised me. I always thought it was between 250-300,000.

      • racerrodig says:

        Just over 200K is the factual amount. I have my source. 100K was from 3 sources in blocks of 25K each. 2 of them were the NRA. He got about 100K from Zidiots. In the grand scheme of things that’s really not much when even O’ Mara said the average donation was $20.00 and most are repeat donators. The math shows he has only about 5,000 individuals who gave.

        If there were anymore, he’d be suing someone for having writers cramp for signing all those “Thank You” cards.

    • Trained Observer says:

      I don’t recall any reliable reference indicating he raked in anywhere close to that. The figures in hundeds of thousands, no more than that.

  57. Woow! says:

    Well who would have known, MOM is not well thought of by the general public:

    “OMara the bigot has finally realized there is something wrong with Old Georgey.”

    “Hey #Zimmerman supporters: If your donations went to his legal defense, why is Mark O’Mara telling Georgie “Pay Me?”

  58. lady2soothe says:


    George Zimmerman’s lawyer said today he will no longer represent the man acquitted of murder in the death of teenager Trayvon Martin, even as police say that Zimmerman or his wife could face charges over Monday’s domestic dispute.


    A spokesman for Mark O’Mara, who succeeded in winning an acquittal for Zimmerman in the racially charged Trayvon Martin murder trial, said O’Mara will not represent Zimmerman in any future litigation including his divorce and any possible charges resulting from the Monday incident involving his wife and father-in-law.

    O’Mara will still be Zimmerman’s lawyer in a defamation suit pending against NBC and in the remaining motions stemming from the Trayvon Martin trial, including a motion to reimburse Zimmerman’s attorneys and a motion to censure the prosecution.

    O’Mara appeared to struggle with his anger at his client during Monday’s incident in which he went to Zimmerman’s house while police were still there. During a press conference later, O’Mara was asked if he had any advice for Zimmerman, and he answered, “Pay me.”

  59. ay2z says:

    This will be a wash between charging S or G, but he’s manipulated all of his doings very nicely, especially the court ‘lie’. SZ was surrounded and hand-held, oversee on her banking duties, by the Z siblings, especially Sis who we heard GZ talk to on jail calls to ask her to check on what SZ does and that she gets it right, with great gushy thanks to sis by bro.

    • Sophia33 says:

      Very true. But I hope that video does turn up something. To show Forgen in his full on rage.

      • Woow! says:

        He probably deliberately destroyed that IPad to get rid of evidence. You now he can’t leave witnesses. That poor Ipad had to be destroyed to hid his crime.

    • lurker says:

      Something that the feds might want to look into is whether one or both of them was guilty of “structuring.” It’s a federal offense having to do with large deposits of cash. Essentially any amounts in excess of $10,000 have to be reported to the feds who are on the lookout for things like tax evasion, drug sales, money laundering and so forth. Deliberately evading these reporting regs by making lots of smaller deposits in a variety of banks (or holding cash in a safe deposit one might suppose) is defined as the crime of structuring–and I think that the Z’s were involved in a textbook case, under gz’s direction.

  60. KA says:

    SO if someone grabs and smashes something you are holding with a knife while really mad at you….then isn’t that a threat?

    It is like someone punching a whole in the wall next to your head….that would be an implied threat…

    • ay2z says:

      Nope, she’s a convicted liar, and besides, as a commentator said, property of a married couple is communal and they have the right to smash it if they want to. Yikes, some husbands believe a wife is property too.

      He needs to be charged with his role in the courtroom lie and deceptions, and get equal culpability or more attached.

    • ay2z says:

      Who is the other woman?

      • towerflower says:

        My bet it is a courtroom groupie… know the type who flock to those standing trial, the notorious NightStalker even married his courtroom groupie; Danny Rolling–the Gainesville Slasher became engaged and sang to his.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Olivia Bertolan.

    • KA says:

      So I can grab my communally owned pillow out from under my spouse’s head and rip it apart with a knife in front of him while I am angry and yelling and that is not a threat?

      I am not sure, but if that happened, I would think that would be unacceptable behavior and I am pretty sure I would be arrested for threatening with a weapon…and jailed with time.

    • MDH says:

      I have another observation.

      Isn’t smashing a valuable electronic device because it has pictures, taken by your spouse, that the smasher does not approve of, a clear indication that the smasher is prone to fits of non-rational rage?

  61. ay2z says:

    Hudson says today in a news confereence, “… George WAS struck…” by Shelle. He adds emphasis to ‘was’.

    So, concluding no gun used or present, but he was in the car part of the occurance, car not searched.

    Read second paragraph below:

    And reports

    Hudson also said on Tuesday that police searched George Zimmerman at gunpoint and found no gun him. He also said neither Shellie Zimmerman, nor her father, saw a gun, despite Shellie Zimmerman telling dispatchers that George had a gun.

    George Zimmerman’s attorney, former Local 6 legal analyst Mark O’Mara, also said George Zimmerman had a gun holstered to his body.

    Shellie Zimmerman’s father, David Dean, will not be charged, Hudson said, leaving either Shellie or George Zimmerman to face charges, if anyone is prosecuted.

  62. Sooner or later, GZ is going to mess with the wrong person and wind up dead or in an ICU.

  63. Regardless whether Shellie or her father want to press charges, the prosecuting attorney has the authority to make the final call and to compel them via subpoena to go to court and testify.

    I imagine that person will be the city attorney for Lake Mary since Lake Mary has a police department.

  64. Two sides to a story says:

    #Shellie #Zimmerman’s father did not have any injury to his nose!… Except this one caused by a punch from Zimmerman

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Rather like Fogen’s boo-boo –

      Try this –

    • Boyd says:

      Man, he went off on the people that sheltered him, imagine what he did to Martin. Man I am so pissed.

      • Boyd says:

        I bet when Shelly took the 5th, it was about spousal abuse. I’ll bet anything.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          yes, boyd. same reason she lied in the bond hearing.

          i’ve been a bit rough on you here today and i’m not going to apologize for it. i am an advocate for abused women whether or not i collect a paycheck.

          i will say it does my heart good that it seems like the light is dawning for you. no matter what — shellie did not pull that trigger and was likely the every day, go-to punching bag, either literally or figuratively. do you really have any doubt that she would be in fear of that creep?

          • Boyd says:

            She needs to wake up and stop helping him. That’s my true point.

            I get it all the compassion, empathy stuff. I get it being married to someone than finding out what he is really like he has a tantrum , drunk etc and feeling stuck.

            I get it, I have 5 sisters. And I would tell them the same thing, throw his ass in jail and get the F outta there.


          • fauxmccoy says:

            @boyd — thanks, buddy. yes, i would want that for her or anyone in her situation. sadly, in my experience with my work, i would estimate that a good 70% of the women who entered our shelter returned to their abusers, usually with children in tow. it was heart breaking work, but critically needed.

            frankly, although i could never show it at work, i felt anger toward the women whose wounds we mended who went back. yet still, in 3-6 months when they were ready to try again, i’d welcome them back with open arms. it took an enormous amount of education/training to do this kind of work and it’s psychically exhausting, but i do understand the myriad of reasons they go back, even if i really hate it.

          • jm says:

            fauxmccoy says: “i do understand the myriad of reasons they go back, even if i really hate it.”

            What is the myriad of reasons that women decide it’s okay to be abused, especially when they have children that are damaged by witnessing the abuse?

            I despise that women are so stupid and weak and uncaring about their children that they would go back to an abuser. Sounds kind of selfish to me. Are they masochists or is this some other form of mental unbalance?

            Sorry I don’t understand the concept. If someone shows me they have contempt for me or I am physically afraid they will do me bodily harm I would do whatever I could to remove myself from that relationship immediately.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            jm says

            What is the myriad of reasons that women decide it’s okay to be abused, especially when they have children that are damaged by witnessing the abuse?


            google it. i’ve suggested it more than once now and you have certainly had the opportunity to read posts from me and others that explain it. ignorance is not your friend and i am done being polite.

          • jm says:

            LOL fauxmccoy. Hiding behind a syndrome for behaving stupidly, lack of character and lying like ShelLIE did? You don’t even know if she was abused.

            Sounds kind of like Jodi Arias claiming battered woman syndrome trying to get away with the horrific murder she committed.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @jm — do you know how many kind, decent, good women here you have just insulted? calling them stupid or masochists because you cannot be bothered to google something and learn?

            you owe apologies like you will never understand. i pity you.

          • jm says:

            Save your pity for women who decide to go back to someone who threatens their life, physically abuses them and/or shows them contempt. Save your pity for the poor children who are watching battering relationships and will be influenced by what they see.

          • Whether you understand it or not, it is a recognized mental diagnosis.

          • lurker says:

            jm–the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t know.

            But, on top of that all, denial is a tricky thiing. Not only is the abuser begging her to come back, but there are plenty of other voices telling her that she’s no good–including some of the folks posting here today who are willing to berate Shelly for going along for the time that she has. Even children will frequently take out their anger for the mess that their lives have become not on the parent who is behaving innappropriately but on the parent who is taking responsibility for them–the one that dragged them to the shelter. And even though one might hope that when she leaves he will see the light and turn his life around (and she hopes so too in all likelihood), all he’s gonna do is hook up with a newer model. Or else show up all regrets and tell her he can’t do it without her.

            This is the baggage she’s got to carry with her while she swims upstream.

            Is it any wonder that so many get sucked back in again?

            And odds are, the abuse didn’t start out with a fist to the face.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @lurker — or they leave in the dead of night. nothing but clothes on their back. woman cannot go to her job because creep will find her. she is poor, has absolutely nothing but a dreary room at a shelter for a few weeks. then what? how do the kids eat? what do they wear? how do they hide when they have no funds to go anywhere and little ones are crying that they miss daddy?

            the list is much longer of course, but one cannot help the willfully ignorant who cannot prefers to call names.

        • racerrodig says:

          “I bet when Shelly took the 5th, it was about spousal abuse.”
          I buy that…..when Taaffe takes the 5th it’s usually Jack Daniels.

          His garbage on HLN last night may have been an all time show stopper on the ignorance level.

          Looks like that “short term vision” is still a major issue.

          • vickie s. votaw says:

            It is my experience as an abused woman that many women do not “like” themselves, they believe they deserve the abuse because they are not worthy of being loved. This is one of the main reasons they do not leave. I think it is easier if there are no children, to leave. I went to women’s shelters 2 times before I was able to have the determination to stay out of the marriage, the responsibility of raising & caring for 4 babies weighed heavy on my decisions. DV is complicated

          • lurker says:

            Vickie–I’m glad you made it out. I have known a few who finally escaped from abusive situations, but the road was not an easy one, for them or their children.

    • MDH says:

      That looks about as traumatic as the 20 to 30 MMA style blows inflicted on George. 🙂

      Seriously, what kind of craven coward 30 year old male in the prime of his life strikes an older man who does not look like he could harm a flea?

  65. Boyd says:

    read this story

    O’Mara quote from it:
    I’ve come to know them as a family, and it’s not a good idea to get in between them,” O’Mara said.

    And that coming from a Lawyer! Now people are waking up.

  66. Two sides to a story says:

    Full recorded LMPD presser –

  67. lady2soothe says:

    Professor and Crane

    Thank you for all your insight and continued dedication. My donation has been submitted.

  68. Rob_UK says:

    A racist, inadequate, impulsive, irrational, obsessive, unpredictable, paranoid, doped-up, volatile, unstable, sadistic murderer with a short fuse and feelings of invincibility, set free and handed back his gun with a pat on the back. What could possibly go wrong?!

    • Boyd says:

      exactly, it is why I am befuddled Shellie and Papa Shelly
      are letting him walk. I can’t take it. I wish my cube mate and team lead never mentioned his name yesterday.

      I was happy with my football games.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      LOL, Rob. Astute observation.

  69. towerflower says:

    A spokesman for Mark O’Mara, who succeeded in winning an acquittal for Zimmerman in the racially charged Trayvon Martin murder trial, said O’Mara will not represent Zimmerman in any future litigation including his divorce and any possible charges resulting from the Monday incident involving his wife and father-in-law.

    O’Mara will still be Zimmerman’s lawyer in a defamation suit pending against NBC and in the remaining motions stemming from the Trayvon Martin trial, including a motion to reimburse Zimmerman’s attorneys and a motion to censure the prosecution.

    O’Mara appeared to struggle with his anger at his client during Monday’s incident in which he went to Zimmerman’s house while police were still there. During a press conference later, O’Mara was asked if he had any advice for Zimmerman, and he answered, “Pay me.”

    • Boyd says:

      Good luck with that O’Mara. That deadbeat is not paying a sole.

      hell, he punched out the guy who provided him shelter.

    • He’s delusional if he thinks GZ will ever pay him a cent.

      Good luck with that, Mark!

      • fauxmccoy says:

        i’m avidly seeking out video — would like to see mark a little hot around the collar regarding his deadbeat client. he tries so desperately to be cool when he sees the red light of a recording camera. if i find it, i’ll post.

      • vickie s. votaw says:

        Karma can suck, MOM, where’s your blood$$$?

    • MDH says:

      Hell hath no fury like a women {or is it a lawyer not paid?} scorned.

      It might be time to sit back, eat popcorn, and watch the Zimmerman show.

      • Rachael says:

        Yep. Justice is on the way!!! LOL

      • racerrodig says:

        I can see the headline now…

        Lawyer Mark O’ Mara sues former client George Zimmerman for services.

        Sanford FL Today Mark O’ Mara, who represented Zimmerman in his 2nd degree murder trial which resulted in a much discussed acquittal, has sued his former client for non – payment. A spokesperson for O’ Mara’s Law Firm said “..he’s a fucking deadbeat and we want to get paid. He did provide our office with an upgraded printer and some new software, but that is a mere drop in the bucket. Mr. O’ Mara performed miracles getting his lazy, fat ass out of this ringer and this is the thanks”

        Zimmerman has countered with a lawsuit alleging in part,
        O’ Mara ruined his life by not taking him (Zimmerman) on as a legal analyst on O’ Mara’s show broadcast on CNN. Zimmerman’s complaint states “….Mr. Zimmerman, being knowledgeable in firearms and having been a “good student” in his Criminal Justice classes at Seminole County Community College makes him the ideal co-host.”

        Attorney Don West has stated he is busy opening an ice cream stand and would not comment.

        FL state assistant prosecutor John Guy said Mr. O’ Mara didn’t sue Zimmerman because he wanted to, he sued him because he had to.

    • Rachael says:

      ROTFLMBFFAO!!!!! “Pay me.” Pay me? Hahahahahahaha. O’M, you knew from the start he hadn’t paid ANYONE ANYTHING in YEARS. LOLOLOL – What makes you think you’re so special??!!!


      Best laugh I’ve had in a LONG time!

    • mary says:

      this smells like a reality show in the making. seriously.

    • lurker says:

      I love it. Even lyin’ O’Mara has some limits. He’s had his moment of fame and it netted him a job at CNN. Time to cut his losses and move on!

    • Woow! says:

      MOM took on this case probono so why is he seeking payment. The 40k he spent buying the building next door and renovating his office was enough since he took on the case for free.

      It is funny how after the money started to roll in he want to get paid.

      His client f’d that up with the jail house call. After the court found out about the website, the money had to be reported to the court so MOM could not spend at will. Also during the trial on various blogs (especially treehouse) they were looking for ways to get money directly to fogen ad the parents to bypass court supervison.

      Karma and I hope MOM has to pay out the ass to the security company he hired. Does anyone know how that turned out?

      • towerflower says:

        Woow! Right after the Hannity interview he also gave a statement saying that he would no longer do the case pro bono.

        • racerrodig says:

          The problem is he can’t change in midstream. He has to have a fee agreement which would clearly state how much and what is paid for. This one may say Fogen pays for any expenses such as filing fees, printer paper and such.

  70. Boyd says:

    Ha Ha ha. Now police are considering charging Shellie.

    Good! Server her right.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Not really. I heard a woman truly afraid on the 911 call. She may have her problems, but I doubt her problems trump Fogen’s.

      • Boyd says:

        Is anyone doing anything?

        There I rest my case.

      • ay2z says:

        Tstas, yes, she knows where he rides with his gun since killing TRayvon with her weapon. He’s not going to be sitting on a little tiny gun behind his back hip when he gets so many death threats, he’s going to have it within reach by hand, not blocked by his glutus maximus.

    • J4TMinATL says:

      @ Boyd

      Are you kidding me? GTFO.

    • Malisha says:

      I hope they do arrest Shellie and charge her with attempted murder. Just as they would have arrested Trayvon Martin and charged HIM with attempted murder had he managed to live long enough for Fogen to lie about that “encounter.”

      • Two sides to a story says:

        It would at least point to all the major absurdities of this case.

      • J4TMinATL says:

        I disagree Malisha.

        Attempted murder? You’re assuming GZ told her everything. That is ridiculous. She did stick with him through trial like any battered woman would.

        • Boyd says:

          What other way to wake her up? That’s what the Florida news said, they were looking into who to charge George or her.

          Charge her with a false 911 call. Maybe she wakes up when she realizes she’s the one getting screwed over AGAIN. Those MALE lawyers don’t care about her, telling her not to press charges! Instead she’s letting this scumbag get away clean again.

          • ay2z says:

            He claims (as per HUdson in today’s news conference) that Shellie hit him on his back.

            Convenient, he turned his back on her? He knows how to work it, he surely does.

            And now Seminole County PD has the iPad. He’s got it all sewn up with his buddies over at Sanford.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      nope, not very funny to those of us who have survived abusive relationships.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Not at all funny.

      • Boyd says:

        I’m not trying to be funny, I’m ticked off that she let him get away with this bullshit.

        You are right I cannot know what it’s like trapped with an asshole.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          boyd says

          You are right I cannot know what it’s like trapped with an asshole.

          as i said, you’re a smart man. you know how to research, i’ve given you the specific words to look up. why don’t you take the time to do so? you will never completely understand, you cannot by definition. it is possible, however, if you are a normal human being to learn and gain empathy.

          • Boyd says:

            I know this guy murdered that teenager who was all alone that night, hard to have empathy for any of them. Gladazz , all of them lied to get him off, get him out of jail. come on Faux, don’t forget all that.

            She did not see a gun but she sure did allude to it, now why would she do that? I’ll tell you, she knows. She knows.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            i have not forgotten a thing, boyd.

            yes, shellie lied in a bond hearing to help her husband. but if you really think about it — why did she? what might have happened to her if she did not? put yourself in her shoes.

            the rest of the clan was in an entirely different position — media blitzes, character references in court, lies about george’s voice– and none of them were dependent upon george in any way or with his sociopathic ass every day.

        • ay2z says:

          She knows about the domestic violence accusations his past gf charged him with, and he simply charged her back, at least in filing injunctions.

          She knows what he is capable of, he’d turn on her and he has a lot of support out there, and he’s not the one who got caught in the lies in court, she did, even though he was the facilitator and mastermind behind the hiding of finances, not her.

          • ay2z says:

            He and his family are capable of destroying her, and with Nancy Grace’s help, they will succeed.

          • jm says:

            at2z says: “He and his family are capable of destroying her, and with Nancy Grace’s help, they will succeed.”

            Nancy Grace? Haven’t seen her show in awhile but last time I did she was very anti-GZ.

            In any case, ShelLIE helped to set this person free and she knew from the get-go what the family is capable of doing from what they did to Trayvon Martin and with her help tried to hurt Tracy Martin during the trial.

            ShelLIE will reap what she sowed.

        • J4TMinATL says:


          GZ killed TM

      • pat deadder says:

        I’m not understanding any of this.So they have the Ipad but not his gun.So she hit him on the back jesus big deal.He wanted to humiliate her by flaunting a new girlfriend or pretend girlfriend.
        I can imagine how angry she felt.

  71. MichelleO says:

    BWAHAHAHAHAHA! The Police Chief said that he wouldn’t want to live next door to Fogan and questioned why he hadn’t left dodge yet.

  72. J4TMinATL says:

    GZ is not living in the home. See above on my post about the live conference

  73. Rachael says:

    I know he can’t be tried for the same crime twice but when is somebody gonna say something about what a farce that trial was. All based on lies. The BS about fixing dinner for him and his wife when she wasn’t there. Mentoring those kids. Where are those kids? Of course we know they don’t exist. In some respects I feel like justice has been served because now everyone knows what a liar he is and exactly what happened that night. There can no longer be any question that he was angry and murdered a black kid for not answering to him. But it is not justice when he’s walking around like he owns the world. But it will come back to him. In one way or another justice will be served.

    • Deborah Moore says:

      I’ve read that you are going through a rough patch recently.
      To say “but when is somebody gonna say something about what a farce that trial was.”, um….it’s been said.
      I believe I’ve read it here and, well, to be truthful several other places online including fb, so I’m uncertain about your comment.
      And, still all best wishes for a turnaround on the financial situation.

      • Rachael says:

        I don’t mean somebody here – of course we said it and said it for months. I mean the police, the judges, the court-type people who played his game. Geez. I’m not THAT far gone. I want one of them MO’M even to get up and admit it was a farce and they know what happened.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          rachael says

          I want one of them MO’M even to get up and admit it was a farce and they know what happened.

          i don’t think you are going to get your precise wish here, rachael. mark geragos, has in fact stated this publicly. that should count for something. florida has it’s own need to protect their own institutionalized racism.

    • dianetrotter says:

      I understand what you mean. I watch Fox headlines. They really want to make it look like no big deal. Other people are saying she is sour grapes because he left her.

  74. Sophia33 says:

    Zimmerman DID have a gun:

    O’MARA: He acted appropriately. He never took the weapon out. The only thing he really did, which is what he told the police, was on the outside of his shirt, he made sure the gun wasn’t moving anywhere and didn’t do anything because [Zimmerman’s father-in-law] Mr. Dean was sort of coming at him, that can sort of be seen in the video.
    COOPER: So he had the gun actually on his person not like, in the glove box of his car?
    O’MARA: That’s correct

    • Boyd says:

      yeah so what he had a gun. He’s allowed by Florida law to make threats while carrying a CCW as long as no one sees it. That’s the law.

      Police will never arrest and she will never press charges and MOM’s a liar who will lower CNN ratings.

      She should never do another interview again, if she wants to tell the public he did not murder the kid. The Cops, Serino, MOM , Shelly, Zimmerman family all make me puke. I wish nothing but a terrible life for all of them.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Better to wish them enlightenment and when they have a terrible life, then you didn’t wish it on them – their own karma bit them in the butt.

  75. Boyd says:

    These people all are looking for money. The lawyers convincing her not to file charges, go ahead dummy listen to men.

    I have two sisters officers in the Military, I would sit at the dinner table when I was a kid and listen to my father tell my mother to sue the man abusing her at work back in the 70’s. He taught my sisters “Take no shit”. I’m not accustomed to this, call 911 then let him go stuff. And the dad is as bad. This Fogen scares his daughter and he’s toothless about it. He needs that 107 year old man to teach him a lesson about standing up for himself. That motion for his gun stuff would not have stopped me from taking control of that situation, I can assure you.

    Shellie Zimmerman , the hell with her. If George hurts her, you asked for it, and don’t come a crying about it. You keep covering for him.

    • J4TMinATL says:

      @ Boyd wrote: Shellie Zimmerman , the hell with her. If George hurts her, you asked for it, and don’t come a crying about it. You keep covering for him.

      That is out of line.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        @j4 — agreed

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Not completely. out of line. It does get tiresome to watch enablers – I have a bit more empathy, having been one myself . If Shellie survives, she’ll turn it around, I hope. . . the problem with this event is legally it turns into a he said, she said because of how FL deals with DV.

      • Rachael says:

        while im not excusing it, it is typical battered spouse behavior.

      • Boyd says:

        I do not understand women. You women are nuts for taking that kind of crap.

        People do not need to be together when any physical altercation or 911 verbal threats occur. Why do women hang around for more abuse, she has no kids with him.

        My wife and I have arguments, but not like this. breaking stuff, calling 911? For me, none of it is worth it. I can get angry too , but a project manager duties interfacing with customers for 20 years taught me to be cool. If my wife and I were to split up then okay. In fact we did, No worries, no hard feelings, and now we’re back together. She spends too much money. Last year I gave her 30k in cash and have no freaking idea what she did with it, she was freaking crying for it. I’m still upset about it but I still did not yell and scream, throw things, I worked more OT 🙂

        While Zimmerman goes off the chain on a divorce, if it was me, I’d go on vacation. That’s how I handled a layoff and a separation from my wife. I go on vacation.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          as i told jm — those are all easy words to say if you have never lived the life of an abused spouse. you’re a smart man, boyd, why not bother to learn more about the experience of the abused and work on human empathy?

          • Boyd says:

            I told you, my dad taught my sisters otherwise. and if they were abused, the men (uncles and such) in my family would be over there if they found out about it.

            I will never understand why people stay with abusers. At some point in the relationship there had to be a hint, this guy was trouble EARLY ON!

            I’m the same guy who wants Obama to blow Assad’s butt to Kingdom come. I do not tolerate bullies of any kind.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            boyd — my dad taught me the same damn thing. he was a expert marksman in korean war, became a special agent for the feds, with a gun, a badge, brought down mafia kingpins in vegas in the 60s and a debilitating mental illness who occasionally became the abuser himself. only problem for me was that he was a grown man, i was a teen and i was dependent upon him for food, clothing and shelter. what fucking then?

            i’ll grant you that since i got out of that at 17 no man has EVER been in a position to harm me, i pity those that tried, but i learned the hard way.

          • Rachael says:

            Boyd, you are right. You don’t understand it. Believe me, my father taught me the same thing. But it’s kind of like the preacher’s daughter who gets pregnant at 14, or the psychiatrist’s kid who is totally effed up, or the plumber whose faucets leak. Just because you were taught something, just because you know something, doesn’t mean you won’t find yourself in that situation. And the real problem with an abusive relationship is, until you have been in one and get away from it, you don’t even necessarily know you are in one. It isn’t at all just a matter of physical abuse – it isn’t even verbal abuse. It is emotional manipulation that you don’t necessarily see, and may even be LESS likely to see if you are looking for physical and verbal abuse. That is why the denial is so great. So often a woman doesn’t believe her relationship is abusive because he never hit her or he yells at her but never calls her names. You are right. You do not understand.

            But you are also right about father’s needing to be very strong role models for daughters.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            rachael — as a pro in this field, you are honing in on the real issues which are much deeper than any black eye or bloody lip.

            the abused spouse is generally cut off socially from friends/family, she is denied access to her own money, she is beaten down psychologically and ultimately begins to fear saying a word or taking any action except that which she thinks will please the abuser.

            i see all of that in shellie zimmerman. it does not excuse her mistakes, but for the love of god — she did not pull that trigger, she did not kill anybody, she behaved as she had been conditioned to behave since she was 19 (well likely earlier than that) and had the misfortune of catching zimmerman’s eye. she had the good graces to stay out of the public eye until just recently and is the *only* one of the whole clan to offer an apology which i suspect would be acceptable to the martin family, even if it was not perfect.

            we all understand that george is an abusive sociopath. this has been a given since we heard his name. considering all we have read in discovery is it that difficult to believe that his wife, too, was a victim of his abuse?

            i honestly cannot understand anyone who would wish her harm. she has accepted responsibility for her actions, made her apologies, is attempting to rid herself of her abuser and trying to move on. i do not have to like her (i did not like many of my clients) but i do wish her well and hope she can make the best for herself.

        • Woow! says:

          You have never been in that situation and by the sound of it you and your wife have common sense. CAC is off his rockers and Shellie has low self-esteem and stupid. Bat shit crazy + stupid = social retards.

        • pat deadder says:

          Boyd It sounds like you’re the one being abused.

        • Two sides to a story says:

          If you’re that healthy, then it’s difficult to understand people who are not. I grew up in a dysfunctional family and learned to be passive and take abuse at my mother’s knee – or to constantly scrap about it – I thought normal was being able to either take it or fuss constantly. This type of behavior is passed from generation to generation – at the core, it’s about low self-esteem, but there are other facets that go into it too. My friends used to despair and tell me they couldn’t listen to another sad story and to just leave the relationships. I found it nearly impossible to extricate myself from bad relationships, especially with small children, and when I did, another azzhole would find me and I’d hook up again. It wasn’t until I was in my forties when I was finally able to stop the merry-go-round.

      • Boyd says:

        No, it is not, if he did all she said, file charges. Now she’s an admitted perjurer who police are claiming might have perjured herself again by not filing charges.

        Don’t waste people’s time calling 911.

        • Woow! says:

          That is her mistake. CAC and his followers are going to eat her alive. They were happy with her lying to keep his tale out of jail but that the shoe is on the other foot, can she be trusted because you know she has admitted to perjuring herself.

          The house of cards is going to tumble for both of them.

          1. CAC is being shown to be the mentally unstable sociopath that he is. Come on now he did graduate last in his class so we all know he lacks book smarts on top of being crazy.

          2. Shelly dug her own grave by lying for her man. MOM and his supporters are already showing signs that she does not matter. They have to protect their great white hope at all cost to save face and keep up the charade that CAC was their hero to stand up to and put down the big black thug that bashed his head into the concrete.

          3. MOM is going to alienate a lot of people with outright lies. At some point CNN is going to have to cut him loose. MOM says outrageous things and no one has called him on any of it. I think that will change if he continues to use his platform to bash Shelly and make CAC out to be a victim all over again.

          4. The Zimmerman’s are quiet. I wonder for how long. I do not think we will hear from them other than Robbie the Racist because the parents just didn’t want to see him go to jail. Now they are like that idiot didn’t learn anything thing, the hell with him.

          5. MOM better be careful because a scorned women will do anything when pissed off. Shelly can tell how he lied, worked with _____ to rig the case, who paid money to the fund, etc.

          6. TM parents are sitting back taking all of this in and hopefully the DOJ.

          7. The prosecution team took a hit to their reputations for this POS. Was it worth it Angela Corey.

          8. CAC is going to motion to that gun on his waist one too many times and someone is going to put him down.

          9. Shelly’s attorney is giving bad advice. She should have pressed charges.

          10. That blond is stupid and if she had any sense she would run like hell and stay out of this. If she come forward to protect her man and bash Shelly, she is fair game for the media. I don’t think she want that.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            10. I mean really – who in their right mind would want to be involved with Fogen right after a highly publicized trial and in the midst of a messy divorce? Butt stupid.

        • lurker says:

          Actually, the police are looking at the situation far more charitably than that. They are viewing the situation as being fearful and Shellie as reporting what she believed yo be true. Filing charges is not up to her so far as I can tell from multiple reports. And the fact remains that, gun or no, there was a physical altercation.

          But–you fail to understand that there is a sick logic that operates within dysfunctional situations and one does not simply snap out of it. I believe that Shellie’s mom had a DUI sometime in the last year, raising in my mind the possibility that Shellie grew up within the logic-patterns of family addiction. These are essentially, don’t talk, don’t trust, don’t feel. If a person grows up always hearing the sort of line that O’Mara was spouting yesterday (there’s always some pushing and touching in divorce situations–nothing to worry about), it tends to have an impact on how one sees reality.

          Going from that at age 19 (not much education, no particular skills, not much social or financial capital) into gz’s web of manipution (listen to the prison tapes–how he talks down to her, telling her exactly what to do, calling her a good girl, etc) didn’t exactly allow her much space to grow up in. And–her new revelation is–she’s really been taking care of him. She perjured herself for him. She has probably lied for him before in other situations too–consider the story she relayed to the the judge about his former gf’s domestic violence charges. Fixed him up with those ridiculous bandages after he shot Trayvon. And the sad and sorry thing is that everytime he played her, and then pushed, shoved, belittled, degraded or lied to her, it was her self esteem that suffered. After all–what kind of a person would put up with him?

          She has taken a stand, but she’s still pretty wobbly. It’s going to take her a good while and plenty of work with someone trained in the field to solidify some basic instincts about safety and trust and how to respond to danger.

  76. J4TMinATL says:

    HLN press conference NOW

    • J4TMinATL says:

      Zach Hudson-Officer

      Possibility of charges against GZ or Shellie.

      iPad can be destroyed because it’s communal property

      Time frame: 2 hours, could be 2 days

      No one has seen video of iPad. 2 cameras weren’t working.

      Father had no injuries. “They put hands on each other”

      • Boyd says:

        excuses. If that was OJ… bada bing bada boom in jail

        he made a threat whether it be verbal or non-verbal.

        No way some guy with a CCW making threats would get way with that shit with me , the police really would have to be on record for it.

  77. ay2z says:

    Anyone believe that the recent speeding stop in Florida, really had no gun in the car or on his person as definitively reported by the local media stations? Media assumed that since there was no gun in the glovebox, there was no gun on his person nor anywhere in the vehicle.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      He and Shellie and OM have all made public statements about him always carrying a weapon. Why would we believe otherwise?

      • Trained Observer says:

        We wouldn’, Two sides, that’s for sure. Lake Mary cops sound like Keystoners when they say he had no gun when even O’Mara acknowledged he was packing.

    • Rachael says:

      ay2z, I don’t know what you getting at about did anybody think he didn’t have a gun when was caught speeding. He is allowed to have it so what is the point?

  78. ay2z says:

    Another big question as the couple is still legally married and we know GZ has a life insurance policy that presumably would cover his spouse. What coverage is on the policy for Shellie’s death? What does hubby get if he has to kill her as he stands his ground?

    • Trained Observer says:

      How do we know GZ presently has a life insurance policy that would “cover his spouse.”

      SZ has petitioned for one covering Fogen where she would be the beneficiary … but that’s not the same, or to suggest he’s got any life insurance in place now.

    • Rachael says:

      why would he get anything in that scenario?

  79. Rachael says:

    the most dangerous time for an abused woman is when she is leaving her abuser.

  80. ay2z says:

    Big question, what model and make of gun would George Zimmerman have carried under that XXXL baggy plaid shirt?

    The so called ‘tiny-9-ee’? As O’Mara describes, he was being responsible carrying his gun and holding his hand over the gun to make sure it did not move around and therefore revealed as O’Mara describes ‘Dean approached him’ (O’Mara used a different term to imply aggression in Dean’s move towards his client. It’s on the video with AC).

    This suggests that GZ no longer carries the Kel-Tec 9 mm model that’s so small it never gets seen in it’s holster.

    So, exactly what model does he carry now and is is the same cheapie without distance acuracty of the one he used to kill Trayvon point blank?

    Not a choice unless you are already within arms length for accuracy as this video shows. The shotgun may have been a better choice for him, but is a bit big to hide under even that shirt. (why plaid? the big pattern of light and dark, will hide shadows of a gun form under the shirt, like camo).

    I suggest he is now carrying a better ‘make my day’ model, if not a 45, something more like a real police model like he borrowed from Osterman.

  81. MichelleO says:

    Dearest Fogan is with the woman who got her mouth smacked for chewing on gun, and whom he kicked her small dog in the stomach when he attacked her. If you remember the document dumps from last spring/summer of 2012; she filed a restraining order against him for domestic violence.

    She is also the one that the mother did not like because of her Hispanic ancestry; to which Fogan turned off the mother’s A/C unit, locked it; and then took the keys with him.

    This lady (if she is the same one) stated that before the murder; Fogan came back to her complaining that Shellie could not or would not have children, and he did not like that.

    So, Shellie had better be very, very careful.

    • Girlp says:

      Oh yea he asked her to have a baby for him, at least Shellie was smart enough not to have children with him. George sounds a lot like Taffee.

      • lurker says:

        Taffee was back on TV last night defending gz.

        • ks says:

          Seriously? How on earth does any network still allow Taffee on air?!

          • lurker says:

            HLN seems to have him on a retainer. Dr. Drew–who I used to respect, likes to throw him in the ring with a bunch of folks to see what kind of shouting match ensues. Taffe seems to have his own set of issues–specifically a pile of resentment with regard to his former wives and how his divorces played out. So far as he is concerned women are always at fault.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            Nancy Grace loves him.

        • J4TMinATL says:

          @ lurker

          That POS!

        • Girlp says:

          Why does anyone listen to him Taffee is no one of importance he is a pitiful human being and will be angry and alone the rest of his pitiful life.

          • lurker says:

            They also had Danny Boniducci giving commentary last night. I guess his qualification is that he’s been arrested before, and he was available. I don’t have a lot of respect for HLN. CNN is marginally better. They at least still pretend to be about news and analysis.

        • Girlp says:

          I don’t know why he has no background in law…Oh I forgot he has a criminal history so he knows something of the law.

    • J4TMinATL says:

      @ MO

      I can’t find a source to verify who the woman was who accompanied him.

      Do you have a link? Thanks

      • Dave says:

        I don’t think she has been positively IDed. She could be Mrs. Osterman.

        • lurker says:

          That would really knock Shellie on her butt. From her response as she watched the woman get out of the car (on the 911 tape), it would seem as though she knew the woman.

        • Dave says:

          At the trial. Sondra Osterman’s hair was brown but I’ve heard it said that some women have been known to change their hair color.

      • lurker says:

        Seen a lot of speculation, but nothing solid. One thing is sure, though–when she got out of the car Shellie recognized her and was not happy.

  82. MDH says:

    Isn’t destroying the I pad destruction of evidence?

    I mean Shellie’s lawyer told her to document what was being taken out of the home, as is her right, and George destroyed her documentation.

    My cousin’s daughter is in this kind of situation. She was advised to call the police each and every time her husband got physical with her or, after the separation, to call when he stalked her. Now, they have a restraining order.

    It is a sad story. She is/was phenomenally pretty and staid with this short or useless male member syndrome guy for 20 years.

    Now that she is free to date, my cousin tells me she is finding out what she missed.

    To be honest, as a father of daughters, I never liked George from the get go. He strikes me as the kind of guy, who if he became involved with one of mine, I would have to take care of that problem and spend the rest of my days in prison.

    • Girlp says:

      Shellie need to take out a restraining order and press charges everytime he attacks her verbally or otherwise she may have to defend herself one day….Once the divorce is finail if I were Shellie I’d move to the West Coast and forget about him I would not leave a fowarding address with anyone but my mom and dad.

      • Malisha says:

        She’s stuck with the problems that come from being part of the Fogen “hero movie.” Good for her. She deserves nothing better.

    • vickie s. votaw says:

      When I was married & took my husband to court for abusing me, the judge told him he could not touch me. He would get right up in my face & verbally abuse me until I left with 4 children , a pillowcase full of clothes for each of us. We went to a women’s shelter. I did not feel safe around him for many years

      • lurker says:

        I do think that a restraining order does help to up the ante–it can specify a perimeter of so many feet, restrict communication and so forth. If Shellie had a restraining order yesterday it would have been enough that he was there–she wouldn’t have to prove any of the rest that went on.

        • Malisha says:

          If she gets a restraining order, he’ll go to court and lie and say she attacked him and HE’ll get one too. Then it will revert to the old “Zueza-style he-said-she-said” and he’ll come out “right” in the end. As between white man and either Black youth or white woman, the white man wins. Shellie’s gonna get a taste of the medicine she thought was only for that “underclass” she didn’t have to care about. I don’t mind her suffering, not at all. She joined with and helped a murderer go free. Whatever is her lot now in life, it is not bad enough to move ME to tears. HA HA HA Shellie: Lie for him, lie with him.

          • jm says:

            Malisha says: “She joined with and helped a murderer go free. Whatever is her lot now in life, it is not bad enough to move ME to tears. HA HA HA Shellie: Lie for him, lie with him.”

            I feel the same way about ShelLIE. She is experiencing well-deserved karma.

          • lurker says:

            His stuff is going to pile up and he will some day find himself in a situation that he cannot shrimp his way out of.

          • towerflower says:

            He’s doing that now, saying Shellie was the aggressor and pushed in in the back.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            towerflower says

            He’s doing that now, saying Shellie was the aggressor and pushed in in the back.

            in other words, his usual routine. it’s always somebody else’s fault. with shellie on probation though, that makes her particularly vulnerable.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Orlando news outlets are reporting that the video from the iPad will be released soon. That should be revealing.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      The police are claiming the iPad is community property and therefore, Fogen can destroy it if he wants to. : /

      • lurker says:

        Ummm, yeah. By the same token, the two of them leased the house together and she had every right to be there, and pack everything he thought he owned into a truck and drive off with it.

  83. Trained Observer says:

    Yes … saw last night’s “pots and pans” clip from O’Mara. Pure spin.

    • ks says:

      Yeah, the “pots and pans” things is nonsense. MoM is ridiculous as usual. He really seems to believe that he can say anything and it will fly. I get the feeling though that his fellow CNN people can’t stand him already.

      • lurker says:

        Also said that some pushing and shoving is normal in divorce situations.


        • ks says:

          According to MoM, punching SZ’s father in the nose and smashing her property with a knife is just “pushing and shoving” .

          • jm says:

            ay2z says: “According to MoM, punching SZ’s father in the nose and smashing her property with a knife is just “pushing and shoving”

            With no charges against GZ by either ShelLIE or her father, it sounds like it was “pushing and shoving” and leaves ShelLIE’s credibility even lower than it was with prior perjury charges.

          • ks says:

            The authorities can still file charges without SZ. In dv type cases, that happens more often than not.

        • Pushing and shoving is not normal.

          Any nonconsensual touching is a misdemeanor assault.

        • Malisha says:

          Normal in the divorce situations HE litigates, that is.

          Why? He promotes “pushing and shoving” and other unlawful behavior (such as lying and committing fraud on the court) among his clients. Easy to figure that one out.

    • bettykath says:

      MOM has no problem with lying. I don’t believe much of what he says. He lied about fogen before, during and after the trial. This is just more of the same. Trayvon killed himself and now it’s all Shellie’s fault.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Though OM told lots of lies, the Twittersphere is alight at the moment with OM statements that he won’t be the divorce attorney or representing any action about yesterday. Maybe he finally has the good sense of a rat fleeing a sinking ship – ?

    • CessnaDriver says:

      The killerlawyer is playing to the killerlovers with checkbooks.

      They are incensed that the killer is being treated so shabbily.

  84. lurker says:

    BTW–Shellie’s lawyer was on HLN last night. The spark to this fire was not “pots and pans” as O’Mara implied. He had advised Shellie as a matter of course to video as things were being removed from the house. This (not “bubbling over that Shellie was still there” as stated by O’Mara) is what ticked George off. Hench the snatching and destruction of the i-Pad.

    I think that the lack of police action in this case–which many on the tube last night were attributing to special treatment for gz–is fairly typical. In Ohio the wife of a state legislator called the police to report that her drunken husband was threatening her with a gun. Police intervened, but filed no charges.

    As the professor pointed out, the inaction of the abused spouse is typical. Shellie has undoubtedly seen the light (not to mention the skinny blonde in gz’s truck). Her call to the police is textbook–being very specific about what she saw, what he did–and recognizing that she has a right to NOT have a garage door slammed down on her, her property destroyed (regardless of who gave it to her) and that reminders that hubby is packing constitute a threat. However, once things have cooled, it is easy for the mind to start swirling, to believe it won’t happen again, or to reflect that perhaps something that she did caused his inappropriate behavior.

    This is why laws and actions need to respond to the behavior of the abuser, rather than the preferences of the abused.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      in california and many other states, DV situations are automatically prosecuted as crimes against the state, regardless of whether the abused presses charges. considering my former profession as a crisis counselor for battered women, i endorse that policy.

      florida is technically the same, but i notice they go about things quite differently…as in the abuser was not cuffed and hauled off to county jail.

      • jm says:

        fauxmccoy says: “florida is technically the same, but i notice they go about things quite differently…as in the abuser was not cuffed and hauled off to county jail.”

        If Florida had cuffed and hauled GZ to county jail, would it not imply that he is violent and a bully just as he was to Trayvon Martin? Would not that imply that the prosecution and police testimony helped free a violent bully who killed a black kid?

        • lurker says:

          The St. Mary police chief is peeved that Shellie didn’t press charges. Says he wouldn’t want gz as a neighbor. Not only is he a real trouble magnet, but his noteriety soaks up public resources every time he has a police encounter.

        • racerrodig says:

          He was cuffed for a bit, but the best part was that people were pointing loaded guns at him !!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        My abuser in FL was asked to leave by law enforcement, but told he didn’t have to because as long as he had clothes hanging in the closet and had been there in the past thirty days, he had the right to be there. So there are some big differences between FL and other states over DV.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @two sides … why am i not shocked? :/ sorry to hear of your experience.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            I was shocked because I heard tales of PDs in other states taking DV seriously and making someone leave. at least for a night, or even arresting both parties if they had to.

            Fortunately, all that is in the distant past . . . it was a long road to recovery from being a target of abuse as well as an enabler of it. Thanks for your concern.

        • ay2z says:

          Tstas, so sorry to hear.

        • lurker says:

          Many years ago I recall a friend trying to get police to take her drunk and abusive husband away in the middle of the night. Best they could do is quiet him down and send him off to bed. They told her he wouldn’t do anything but sleep it off. That lasted until the police were gone. She spent the rest of the night driving the kids around in the car.

      • Dave says:

        While it’s true that crimes of this sort are considered crimes against the State (or “the People), on a practical level they are usually very hard to prosecute without the willing cooperation of the victims.

        • lurker says:

          Apparently the reports that Shellie isn’t going to press charges are inaccurate–it is up to the state. Police have removed any notion of the gun presence from their investigation and are currently looking into domestic battery. I believe they have a conference scheduled for 5 PM.

          • jm says:

            Lurker the police did not search his car and it is difficult to believe GZ who carried a gun everywhere because of fear for his life would not have a gun in his car if not on his person. Aside from that, MOM said he did have a gun.

          • lurker says:

            jm–I agree. Just passiing on what the police said today.

          • jm says:

            If I read between the lines of police statement, the police are either still incompetent or still protecting GZ. I am glad the reporter asked if they searched his car and officer was forced to admit they did not BUT after he said there was no gun involved trying to clear a path for GZ.

          • lurker says:

            jm–it is puzzling. I would think that threats from an armed individual, or person reasonably believed to be armed (particularly if that person furthered the impression by putting their hand on the weapon hidden in their clothing) would be a charge worth pursuing, at least as a part of the overall circumstance.

            But–she really needs a restraining order ASAP with very clear specifications. Even if he covers by getting one against her.

    • lady2soothe says:

      GZ broke the iPad Shellie used to record a video of their confrontation.

      Shellie Zimmerman claims her estranged husband, George Zimmerman, broke into pieces an iPad she used to record video of their confrontation Monday afternoon, Officer Zach Hudson of the Lake Mary (Fla.) Police Department told The Huffington Post.

      “That iPad is in half a dozen pieces at this point,” Hudson said. The remains of the device have been sent to a lab where technicians will attempt to extract the video Shellie Zimmerman recorded and any other potential evidence that might be stored on it.

      Lake Mary Police Chief Steve Bracknell told HuffPost on Monday that, as of then, the authorities did not have enough evidence to charge George Zimmerman with a crime. The iPad could potentially change that equation.

      One particular question that might be answered if video can be pulled from the damaged device is whether George Zimmerman was carrying a weapon during the confrontation. Last night, on CNN’s “AC360,” George Zimmerman’s lawyer, Mark O’Mara, told Anderson Cooper that Zimmerman was carrying his weapon at the time.

      More of the story here:

  85. Shellie should get a restraining order ASAP.

    • Trained Observer says:

      While I agree both in principle and for the purposes of further legal action … but when it comes to safety the fact is that a restraining order isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on when applied to a nutcase like Fogen.

      • lurker says:

        It would have given the police cause to arrest him had there been one in place yesterday.

        • Trained Observer says:

          Not necessarily. Fogen is the one who still officially lives there. She-Lie already moved out before the incident. She showed up to get more of her stuff apparently not at the previously arranged time. Complicting the situation is that her old man (and he may not be all that old, since she’s only 26) is the landlord.

          • J4TMinATL says:

            @ TO

            How is he the landlord when her parents own the home?

            The rental agreement was $1,000 a month.

          • Shellie’s father owns the home. GW and SZ were renting it from him for $1,000/month.

          • Trained Observer says:

            She-Lie’s old man is her father, who happens to be (along with her mother) the property owner of record, and since she’s only 26, he may not be all that old. Someone suggested yesterday that cops could have arrested FOgen for punching an elderly guy. My points are:

            * that her old man is likely not even close to elderly.
            * That She-Lie is no longer living at the property.
            * That Fogen apparently is … despite his road trips of late.

          • Trained Observer says:

            As for property details, I provided a link to that testerday. A county property appraiser’s assessment is for tax purposes, and is not necessarily a reflection of market value for a house. Many variables exist.

          • J4TMinATL says:

            @ TO

            Nope he no longer lives there

          • Two sides to a story says:

            In some states, you touch someone as young as 60, you’re in for assault of a “person at risk.” I think Shellie’s dad may be in his 40s or 50s, though, and not all states have this clause in their assault statutes.

          • @Trained Observer:

            Excuse me Trained Observer, but those of us who have children who are 20 something, are not the least bit old! My kids wish they could keep up with me! LOL! LOL!

      • A restraining order will not stop a man like GZ from doing whatever he’s going to do, but whatever he does do will result in an arrest. Assuming he contacts her, the police will take him to jail and he will not be able to bail out.

        I believe that is a better situation to be in than she was yesterday.

        Her lawyer probably has the paperwork ready for her signature.

        That and a good pep talk.

      • towerflower says:

        It would take away his concealed license and he would be breaking the law if at another traffic stop he is found with a gun.

    • MichelleO says:

      DEAREST Professor; please change to another type of forum where you get paid by the ads run on your most excellent site. You provide a very important service to the community, and it would be ashame to see your site no longer in operation.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Yes … I mentioned this yesterday in the previous thread. It’s not a road to riches, but it would provide a much needed revenue stream however modest.

    • Sophia33 says:

      I agree professor.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      yes, she needs that and more aggressive legal counsel. i’d sic gloria allred on her in a red hot minute if i thought it would help. with any luck, she’ll volunteer her own services.

    • Malisha says:

      So should every African American person living in Florida.

      • racerrodig says:

        That would be a hoot….every one of them filing a Petition for a restraining order against him……Hell…I’ll do that.

  86. Sophia33 says:

    Who hits someone’s father? Who does that? Really!!!! Also, I called it the last time I was here. I said that Shellie needed to be worried about her safety. The loose cannon with a gun is running around.

    • jm says:

      ShelLIE helped create an “invincible” monster by standing by her man. I remember her trying to get Tracy Martin in trouble in court, not to mention her lies to the judge regarding financial status of her and GZ. She’s a sleaze.

      • Sophia33 says:

        She has done some really bad things. But having worked with domestic violence victims and having been in an abusive situation myself, I have to wonder how much of her behavior could be attributed to that. I am not saying she is a saint, but I know abused women and children (actually anyone abused) often defend their abusers. The reason that police sometimes say that DV situations are the most dangerous that they enter is because the women sometimes fight the FOR the men, who just kicked their behinds.

        Yes, she has to take responsibility for her actions, but I also can see that some of them may have stemmed from being in an abusive situation. I am not a Shellie Zimmerman fan by a long shot.

        • jm says:

          My personal thoughts regarding ShelLIE is she gave as good as she got as far as abuse. I also think she wanted an easy ticket to living a “good” life without having to work for it and GZ provided that for her after he killed Trayvon Martin. I mean what did ShelLIE do for a living? What is her education?

          ShelLIE has character issues – along with not being as smart as she thinks she is.

          • Sophia33 says:

            As far as her character issues, you have a real point.

          • lurker says:

            End of the day, I don’t think there is much “easy living” available from gz–as spouse or ex. Various critics around the web suggest that she is trying to use this as some kind of “leverage” in the divorce. Nothing to leverage. She wants to leave the marriage–no legal barriers. Only issues are going to be the division of assets–which really amount to division of debts. And neither one of them has any real earning power.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            lurker says

            Nothing to leverage. She wants to leave the marriage–no legal barriers. Only issues are going to be the division of assets–which really amount to division of debts. And neither one of them has any real earning power.

            agreed. she gets one half of all that they owe. with a negative net worth of $100k. where’s the leverage???

          • Sophia33 says:

            At lurker…a great portion of the debt is hers because his credit was so bad that everything had to be put in her name.

          • @jm:

            Yes, ShelLIE has only herself to blame for not educating herself properly so she could support herself if she had too and for staying with this man when he first started showing his abusive nature to her! She had to have heard about assaulting a police offirer and him throwing a woman across a bar room table when he was a bouncer, or Fogen slapping his ex for chewing gum and how he slapped a restraining order on her after she slapped one on him, but she just knew that, that would never happen to her! She was special!

            She stood by Fogen while he terrorized others, lied, cheated, and eventually his anger and rage that night, ended up with the murder of Trayvon Martin. She sat there while Fogen’s brother compared Trayvon Martin to that black kid who was just convicted for shooting that baby in the face! She has been with that monster so long, she doesn’t know where she starts or begins, and she figured she was marrying a ‘Magistrate’s son.” What she didn’t know was that the “Magistrate’s son” was a lazy, trifling, con man, psycho, socio-pathic, narrcisstic, demon!

    • MDH says:

      Debt incurred during a marriage is shared equally, regardless of whose credit rating was used to get it.

      I think Shellie might be playing a dangerous game. She and her lawyer might be aiming for some net worth they can get out of whatever funds George has been given.

      Put him behind bars, and all that money will be gone.

      MOM probably sees the writing on the wall. Even if the criminal charges are dropped, George’s stunts have put him in a very bad spot with regard to a divorce. Infidelity and harassment will be a part of how assets and payments are settled.

      In Va, if one spouse is found to be guilty of cheating before the separation, then that can be grounds for payments to the aggrieved spouse who kept the faith. Emotional and physical abuse can also be factored in.

      Stupid George is about to get a lesson in Criminal vs Divorce law.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Salient points, MDH.

      • lurker says:

        What O’Mara sees is that CNN can pay him and George cannot. The big case is won, he doesn’t need to be George’s friend for life. He can make more commenting on the antics of the Zimmerman’s for CNN than trying to keep George out of trouble.

  87. ay2z says:

    Mark O’Mara is now ‘legal analyst for CNN’. He spread the gun lie for his client earlier in the day, and straightened it out under Anderson Cooper’s questioning. He also spins that SZ was not supposed to be at the house, implies that GZ was entitled and didn’t expect her that day.

  88. I do not believe anyone is safe with GZ wandering around armed with a gun.

    • ay2z says:

      Shellie is not safe with him, he know has learned he can bully her by putting his hand on his gun inside his baggy shirt, and keep it there, but that makes him responsible, and her a liar. I have no doubt that he used it this way to threaten his wife because she knew, as O’Mara said, he always had it on him.

    • racerrodig says:

      The other day a gray Honda Ridgeline ran a red light and I damn near got him in the drivers door. When I got behind him, it had FL tags and I near shit myself.

      Turns out Fogen had been stopped by the FL police for speeding within hours of this 1500 or whatever miles away.

      You’re right……feel safe…..with him on the loose….not even in NJ.

  89. Despite the police claim that GZ did not have a gun, O’Mara said he did.

  90. Rachael says:

    I don’t know what will be next but I know, have always known, we have not heard the last of George Michael Zimmerman and when we do it will be big and it won’t be good. None of his behavior is new, its been escalating for years and should have been put to a stop long before he had the chance to kill Trayvon. What will it take, my GOD, to get this dangerous murderous sociopath off the streets? Oh yeah. I forgot. he’ll have to kill a white person first.

    • Girlp says:

      That’s what it looks like Rachael, they were ready to take him into custody, the police chief seems to believe that George attacked and threaten them. If he’s so afraid for his life why is he running around town with a blond on his arm. I hope Shellie is seeing the light she was used probably for her credit.

    • @Rachel:

      It will take some gang banger to put a bullet in his head to stop this idiot and it will happen, mark my words! Florida Law Enforcement is afraid of this man! He killed a black boy for God’s sake and got away with it but only because the racist system worked in his favor. You would think this was 1955 Selma, Alabama!

      He terrorizes ShelLIE and her dad, and he still gets away with it! Yep, you are right Rachel. He will have to murder a white individual before they arrest and convict this psycho-path!

  91. Girlp says:

    Whatever he does looks like it could be family related, he did what we expected he turned it around and made Shellie and her father the aggressors. I do expect more of the real George will come to light; could be very soon.

    • lurker says:

      That blonde he’s courting had best be forwarned!

      • Girlp says:

        Yep he’s not that marshmellow described in court.

        • racerrodig says:

          Exactly, who in there right mind would have this nimrod??

          Is she armed and a great shot ?? Is she an adrenaline junkie ??

          Or is she just plain stupid ??

          • Rob_UK says:

            Must be the same reason why some women write love letters to serial killers in prison and sometimes marry them behind bars. Maybe depravity turns her on? Being caressed by the hand that fired a bullet into a black kid’s heart makes her tremble? Ughh. :o/

          • MedicineBear says:

            I think his new “girlfriend” is Taafe. It was love at first sight.

          • lurker says:

            I’m betting he hasn’t had a conversation with Taafe since this whole thing began–on advice of counsel. Taafe’s getting his own ego massage doing on air stuff.

          • abbyj1 says:

            Racer, I asked the same questions. What kind of woman would even get into a car with this maniac? She must have an entire box load of screws loose. She must be out of her mind, just like him.

          • jm says:

            abbyj1 says “She must be out of her mind, just like him.”

            Then again she may have thought GZ told the truth just like his parents, sister, brother, wife, defense attorneys, Sanford police who testified, his friends and ultimately the jurors.

            Begs the question if they are all out of their mind doesn’t it?

  92. jm says:

    My question is why did ShelLIE lie about GZ threatening her with a gun and why didn’t her father press charges if GZ punched him?

    • fauxmccoy says:

      i am not convinced that she lied — if they were in a direct physical confrontation and his hand was on the hip which she knows he regularly carries, that action would undoubtedly be threatening and could be described in the manner it was on the 911 call that i heard.

      as for not pressing charges — those are always difficult, emotionally overwrought decisions in DV cases. more often than not, they are made out of fear.

    • Trained Observer says:

      There’s no evidence She-Lie lied on this incident. O’Mara himself has confirmed Fogen’s holstered gun was on the scene. Cops didn’t find the gun because they didn’t search fatboy or his schruck. If Fogen verbally threatened her while groping his packed holster, that’s threatening her with a gun.

      • Trained Observer says:

        In addition, it was She-Lie and her dad who had shown up to get some of her stuff. She has moved out. Even though he’s been on the road a lot, as we all know, Fogen came “home” to find her.

        Wonder what the rent/leasing arrangement is, and when Daddy Dean will kick Fogen’s butt out.

        • lurker says:

          According to one report I heard, they were in contact prior to his “coming home.” He knew she was there with her dad cleaning things out.

        • J4TMinATL says:

          @ TO

          Her dad owns the house. Rent was $1,000 a month.

          She says she texted GZ to let him know she was there.

    • lurker says:

      Based on O’Mara’s statement, I believe that George was carrying. O’Mara most likely advised him to stow the pistol in the car, knowing that police would need a warrant to search it. What O’Mara said was that gz had the gun, but never withdrew it from under his clothing.

      Not surprising that they didn’t file charges. Pretty typical of domestic violence cases. The prof can weigh in, but I am thinking that the decision was made with advice from her attorney. Police are viewing it as a he-said-she-said. Her perjury conviction is against her. Gotta weigh whether she wants to put effort into charging him or getting out of the marriage (along with a restraining order).

      George strikes me as more hot-headed and opportunistic than scheming (which is what I think Shellie meant in her recent interview about the Trayvon Martin killing–planning and scheming are not his way. Stupidity in the moment is). If she gets out of the marriage and disentangles, this may enhance her safety immensely. Pressing charges just keeps her involved.

      • jm says:

        Not pressing charges makes her look like a liar and since she already has the reputation makes ShelLIE look bad. And what’s up with her father. If he was assaulted why not file charges to keep GZ in line?

        Both families seem to be dysfunctional low-life liars.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          jm — i am going to beg you to do a bit of research on battered wives syndrome. you need to try to understand why they rarely press charges. there is solid research to back it up.

          a lot of other things may suddenly look clearer as well — such as why she lied for him in court and why she stuck by him during his trial. this stuff is very difficult to comprehend if you have not experienced it first hand.

          • jm says:

            What is going on with ShelLIE’s father. He is punched by an alleged abuser of his daughter and refuses to press charges?

          • fauxmccoy says:

            this is why i am begging you to research DV and the effects of the abused partner.

            it would not be unusual for an abused spouse to beg/plead whatever with her father or other family not to press charges and the biggest reason is FEAR.

            any woman here who has been battered or experienced this in any way can tell you that.

          • jm says:

            Sorry fauxmccoy I’m not buying that ShelLIE’s father would enable GZ further by ignoring GZ’s physical assault on him by punching him in the nose and not press charges because ShelLIE begged him to ignore getting punched and watching GZ (a killer) threaten them with a gun and destroy her property.

            There is NO WAY my father would ignore GZ’s behavior if I begged him to “protect” me by not filing charges.

            IF ShelLIE was abused and in fear, why would she even call the police? IF her father thinks she is fearful for her life, why not put GZ in jail by filing charges?

            I guess I’m not buying the story that ShelLIE was abused. I think she is angry, jealous, lazy and a liar and is being dropped by the guy she thought was her ticket to the “good” life. He added insult to injury by bringing a new “girlfriend” into the picture.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @jm — those are all easy words to say if you have never lived it.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            i will give you a personal example

            when i was 17, my father had a serious psychotic break with reality and held a gun to my head all night due to paranoia.

            although my mother finally woke up to the abuse that had been occurring for years and did in fact get LE involved to get my family out safely — she NEVER reported that crime. not to LE, not to my aunts/uncles, not to anybody. although she was a very smart and capable woman personally and professionally, her self esteem was shot to hell. she was terrified of my father, ashamed of what had happened and did not want anyone to know. women in this position are scared beyond words that the abuser will somehow talk his way out of any legal trouble (and they often do) and then the abuser will be even more hostile (they often are).

            this is not remotely unusual. and now you know why i spent much of my career advocating for abused women.

          • J4TMinATL says:

            @ fauxy

            Scroll down I just watched live press conference.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            thanks — i saw the post 🙂

          • towerflower says:

            Xena made a good point over at her blog and that is that her father may not have filed charges over a threat that if he did then Z would pursue charges against Shellie. With her still being on probation she has a cloud hanging over her head, right now she is the one with the fear of being put into jail not him.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            yup, saw that, also a valid point.

          • Girlp says:

            Faux I have seen BWS plenty of times, one of my best friends is a battered wife, these batterers take away so much of their self-esteem and completely control them and typically force them using threats to come back if they do and many do not get any peace once they leave even if the ex remarries. If I were Shellie I would move to the west coast change my name and only my mother, father and brothers would know where I am.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @girlp — that would be sound advice. thanks for chiming in 🙂

          • pat deadder says:

            fauxmccoy oh my goodness I so agree with what you are saying about abuse.
            Was there for 25 years.My Mother would ask me why I stay.My answer I love him
            I can’t even begin to tell you what happened when I left.
            It wasn’t because of love he wanted me back it was he thought he owned me.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            pat — i am sorry to hear of your situation as well. good for you for getting out and realizing all that kept you there so you’ll never make that mistake again.

          • abbyjj says:

            fauxmccoy, You explain it so well. It’s the easiest thing to point a finger at the woman and to blame her. That’s been the strategy of society until now, but vestiges of blaming the woman still remain. So many factors are at play when a woman is experiencing physical and emotional abuse, as DV experts know now. The woman’s self esteem is beaten down. She has been living in fear for some time. Her abuser has isolated her. She is racked with shame that others might know–and blame her, which is exactly what happens. She is terrified of retribution from her abuser, if she brings charges. She knows that the TRO can be an incendiary act that causes the man to explode further and kill her and her family. Shellie said, “I don’t know what he is capable of . . ” and she sounded very frightened for herself and her father.

            The abuser/batterer, when caught, then relies on that cycle of DV to appeal to her and win back her loyalty–exhibiting great remorse and swearing he will never do it again. It’s also been shown that, every woman in a DV situation who is trying to get away from her abuser knows instinctively that her efforts to separate from him greatly multiplies the chances that she will be killed at his hands.

            Personally, I would bet everything that O’Mara arrived and talked her down. He probably told her that fogen just lost it, was just under stress, but needed a chance to get his life together. MOM probably told her that, if fogen were arrested, that he would be slaughtered like a pig in jail, and it would be on her head, if he were killed. I’m guessing that he swore to her that fogen would not go near her again.

            The whole thing stinks from top to bottom, from Rick Scott, to Corey, to BDLR, to Judge Nelson, to Shipping, to the leaks from the jury room. The fix was in. I, too, want to know exactly what fogen has to do to get arrested and thrown in prison in Florida? As comedian David Cross once asked of Geo W Bush, “What does he have to do to prove that he’s a criminal? Does he have to eat a live baby on live TV??” It’s almost come to that with fogen. I hope the NRA and racists love their golden boy.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @abby — you explain this hideous cycle of DV quite well. i can only hope that you have not experienced such yourself.

          • abbyj1 says:

            Thank you, faux, very much. No, I’ve been fortunate enough not to have experienced it myself, but I had hundreds of women students over the years who did. They had been attacked in ways I never dreamt possible by violent partners and husbands. Some had their jaws broken often, black eyes, bruises. One woman–while her jaws were wired together and she was in the hospital–was told by her minister, “You brought this on yourself. You didn’t pray correctly and God didn’t hear you.” She wrote on a piece of paper, “I prayed to the angels, too.” The minister chided her, “Well, girl, you prayed to the wrong angels. Now is the time to ask yourself what YOU did to bring this on yourself.” It was chilling to hear.

            Another student had been attacked and raped repeatedly by her husband. She moved across the country. He tracked her down, attacked her as she came to her door in the evening, and stabbed her so many times that she had both lungs collapse. It was a miracle that she survived. The scars on her chest and neck were horrific. Another student of mine had a violent husband who told her he was going to cut off her hands, and he took a knife to her and slashed her fingers wide open. One remarkable student was about 35years old, and she had two kids. Her ex-husband would show up at their home, break in during the night, and hold them all at rifle point. She finally decided to move and change her name when he jammed the rifle down her throat and held it there for one full hour.

            Faux, the most poignant of all, one of my favorite students, had a husband who was so insanely jealous that he believed her pregnancy was not his child—which was untrue. So he asked her to come kiss him by the stairway upstairs in their house. Then he threw her over head first, and she became a quadriplegic. She told me that for the first year, in rehabilitation, she was in such denial that she begged him to take her back. It was only later that she understood how much he controlled her. She went on to have that third child who survived the fall, to marry a wonderful young man, and have a very good life, but the price she paid for not being able to get away from her abusive husband was unimaginable.

            There were dozens more, including one woman whose Marine husband would hold her by her feet and flush her head down the toilet when she disobeyed him. You will never know the lessons of DV that these brave women taught me. They all learned, the ones who survived. They did their best to save their own lives and to protect their children. Very seldom did law enforcement STOP the abuse, faux. They were complicit and would use euphemisms like, “Well, okay, it got physical.” Believe me, there were days that I just cried my eyes out at my desk, but it sure radicalized my belief that society does NOT understand DV at all. Not one of these women was stupid or self-destructive. Every one of them was very smart, taken down by DV, and just trying to survive.

            Thanks for listening, faux. Thanks. It weighs heavily on me, knowing what so many women go through–and the children–and that no one blames the perpetrator.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            sweetpea — if you read my comments here, there is almost nothing you can tell me that i have not already seen. i was a crisis counselor at my local battered women’s shelter for many heartbreaking years. it’s tragic stuff and absolutely draining to deal with all day, every day. the kind of work you cannot just ‘leave at the office’ and not just because you carry a pager 😦

            years later, the one call that really sticks with me was from a woman, whispering to me on the phone at 3 AM, the husband was asleep and she had a chance to call. after hearing her heartbreaking story and offering to pick her up at either the hospital or police officer to take her to shelter, she said ‘no’. when asked why, it was because her husband was a police lieutenant and knew the precise location of our shelter. i am sure there are many more just like her. the voice, the sense of shame and hopelessness haunts me 15 years later.

            those who wish to deny this vicious cycle make me sick — and yes, jm, i am speaking to you.

          • abbyj1 says:

            Faux, First let me say that I am so sorry you experienced this in your home when you were growing up—without a mother to stop it. It must have taken years to make sense of it all, if ever. Second, I didn’t know that you had done this DV work for years. There is no way you don’t “know” exactly what DV is all about. You’ve seen it all—much more than I have. I got to see the ones who’d survived, but I know that so many do not.

            My heart goes out to them, and to YOU for having survived DV in your home, and then, for having the determination and courage to help others. Bless you. It’s a global war. I read about the DV deaths and brutality to women in India and elsewhere in the world. Same happens here in the U.S. a dozen times a day, but we paper it over by silencing the victims, blaming them, minimizing, and letting me men off scott free.

            Of course fogen went to Shellie’s dad’s home to terrorize them, and to punish her for speaking her truth. Of course he had his gun. Of course he resulted, once again, to resorting to violence with his hands, and using a knife. Wonder what it’ll take to have him put away. I just wonder. RIP Trayvon.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @abby — thanks, appreciate the kind words. i deliberately did not write of either my personal or professional experience on the thread fred opened regarding DV. as one who is rarely at a loss for words, i did not know where to start much less where to end and certainly do not seek pity.

            i survived, i grew stronger, i learned. after serious therapy i was able to reconcile with my father because as tragic as his flaws were, it was an organic brain imbalance and never a lack of love. we developed a kind and loving relationship as adults. i was able to comfortably let him hold my newborns and held his hand as he passed. above all, i am grateful that i could enjoy the last years of his life with him and unafraid.

            my career ended early, due to disability, but i will always have my education, training and experience to continue as an advocated for abused women. i shall content myself to challenging the misconceptions i find and call it good.

        • i read an article where the police said that in florida it is they that will decide if charges are to be pressed and no one else gets a say. So Shellie or her dad have no say in it.

          • lurker says:

            The police have actually given conflicting reports, which doesn’t help. Their first one said that Shellie and Dad didn’t want to press charges. The second said it isn’t their decision to make.

          • jm says:

            On top of the conflicting reports regarding who files charges regarding the assault, the police also adamantly said GZ had no gun. When pressed by a reporter at the press conference as to whether GZ’s vehicle was searched, the police representative had to admit they had not searched the vehicle for a gun.

            Sounds to me like the police are trying to cover for GZ and this police attitude has spread from Sanford to Lake Mary police department.

        • God is there says:

          @jm: Joy Reid was saying she didn’t press charges because of the donations they still have and must be still getting. That if she presses charges GZ would not receive anymore money and this is what they are both living off of because neither are working. Also, something about getting a more substantial amount through the divorce. If GZ is in jail, the money will stop. I don’t know how true this is, but this is what Joy Reid was discussing on msnbc tonight.

    • Girlp says:

      I don’t think she lied, I read her lawyer talked her out of pressing charges. Why? I don’t know.

      • jm says:

        If her lawyer talked her out of pressing charges, what’s up with her father who was allegedly punched by GZ?

      • racerrodig says:

        Sometimes in a divorce will recommend not filing charges for this, that and the other thing so you look like the better party in court.

        Been there on that one. It usually is good advice but with Fogen, I’d have done whatever is needed to get him disarmed and a Restraining Order.

        Since his life revolves around being armed, he’ll go insane without one and the shit storm he’ll create over that will be his downfall.

    • J4TMinATL says:

      I don’t believe she lied. He had his gun in his holster. MoM said he did. At some point he put it in his Honda Ridgeline.

      • God is there says:

        @J4TMinATL: On msnbc, Joy Reid and Chris Hayes, I believe this is his name said: First it was said that GZ was carrying and threatened SZ and her dad. Then it was said: GZ didn’t have a gun, then SZ hid the gun for GZ, then the gun was in his car, and that OM said he did have a gun. Who knows. I think he did have a gun and that he did threaten SZ and her dad. Joy said: Basically, the gun was all over the place and no one is sure what the deal was with it.

    • towerflower says:

      The Lake Mary police said they only searched Z and that they never searched his vehicle. She said he was sitting in his truck when this happened so he might have left the gun in the truck, knowing the cops were on their way or gave it to his bottle blonde, courtroom groupie.

      Shellie and her father both admitted they never saw the gun only that he tapped his side where he normally keeps the gun. Even MOM mentioned (gag) that he was being a “responsible gun owner” by making sure that the gun was holstered properly. (WTF!!)

      • mary says:

        who the hell would date george zimmerman?

        also, i take what everyone is saying about abused spouse seriously, but my cynical side smells a reality show in the making.

        • lurker says:

          We’ve been watching the reality show all summer. The folks who are able to milk the big money from this (HLN, CNN) are already in place and paying off in bits and pieces to folks like Taaffe and now O’Mara. I am thinking that neither George nor Shelly can parlay this into anything more lucrative than a personal nightmare. Maybe a Lifetime movie. But, I don’t think Shellie’s ready for that yet. More disclosure than she can deal with.

          • jm says:

            “But, I don’t think Shellie’s ready for that yet.”

            If I were ShelLIE I would write a true tell-all book exposing him and his family without trying to sugarcoat events. Expose everything and everyone including herself.

            That would only work and be financially beneficial to her if she is capable of the truth – which given her history of lying I doubt.

        • God is there says:

          @mary: a nut case, someone definitely hard up, or another battered woman.

      • racerrodig says:

        And he’s doing all this while his ex – fiancee / new girlfriend is right there !! What a dillweed she is.

    • CessnaDriver says:


  93. fauxmccoy says:

    i hesitate to speculate on what may be next, the one thing we do know is that it can’t be good. what is it going to take for florida to take this madman off the streets?

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