Why is President Obama considering nominating Ray Kelly to run DHS?

Thursday, August 15, 2013

Good morning to all of our friends.

Today we take a look at the moribund Fourth Amendment that was revitalized by United States District Court Judge Shira Scheindlin in New York City when she recently struck down the city’s stop and frisk policy.

Ray Kelly is the police chief of New York City.

I wrote about the stop-and-frisk rule last November.

I said,

Reasonable suspicion is a legal standard of proof in United States law that is less than probable cause, the legal standard for arrests and warrants, but more than an “inchoate and unparticularized suspicion or ‘hunch’ ”; it must be based on “specific and articulable facts”, “taken together with rational inferences from those facts”. Police may briefly detain a person if they have reasonable suspicion that the person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity; such a detention is known as a Terry stop. If police additionally have reasonable suspicion that a person so detained may be armed, they may “frisk” the person for weapons, but not for contraband like drugs. Reasonable suspicion is evaluated using the “reasonable person” or “reasonable officer” standard, in which said person in the same circumstances could reasonably believe a person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity; it depends upon the totality of circumstances, and can result from a combination of particular facts, even if each is individually innocuous.

I provided the facts in Terry v. Ohio, the seminal SCOTUS case that authorized a stop and frisk in order to explain the difference between a reasonable suspicion, which is required to justify an investigatory stop and frisk, and probable cause, which is required to justify a custodial arrest.

On October 31, 1963, while on a downtown beat which he had been patrolling for many years, Cleveland Police Department detective Martin McFadden, aged 62,[1] saw two men, John W. Terry and Richard Chilton, standing on a street corner at 1276 Euclid Avenue and acting in a way the officer thought was suspicious. Detective McFadden, who was well-known on the Cleveland police force for his skill in apprehending pickpockets, observed the two proceed alternately back and forth along an identical route, pausing to stare in the same store window. Each completion of the route was followed by a conference between the two on a corner. The two men repeated this ritual alternately between five and six times apiece—in all, roughly a dozen trips. After one of these trips, they were joined by a third man (Katz) who left swiftly after a brief conversation. Suspecting the two men of “casing a job, a stick-up”, detective McFadden followed them and saw them rejoin the third man a couple of blocks away in front of a store.

The plainclothes officer approached the three, identified himself as a policeman, and asked their names. The men “mumbled something”, whereupon McFadden spun Terry around, patted down his outside clothing, and felt a pistol in his overcoat pocket. He reached inside the overcoat pocket, but was unable to remove the gun. The officer ordered the three into the store. He removed Terry’s overcoat, took out a revolver, and ordered the three to face the wall with their hands raised. He patted down the outer clothing of Chilton and Katz and seized a revolver from Chilton’s outside overcoat pocket. He did not put his hands under the outer garments of Katz (since he discovered nothing in his pat-down which might have been a weapon), or under Terry’s or Chilton’s outer garments until he felt the guns. The three were taken to the police station. Terry and Chilton were subsequently charged with carrying concealed weapons.

Race cannot satisfy the reasonable suspicion test and statistics have proven and Judge Scheindlin found that the NYPD relies on race to justify their stop-and-frisk policy.

PBS News Hour states:

Critics point out that only a very small percentage of stop and frisk actions result in the seizure of weapons or drugs or other contraband. For example, this study showed that for the hundreds of thousands of stops that occurred in 2008, only 6 percent resulted in arrests. Under 2 percent yielded any contraband. And only about one-tenth of 1 percent of stops turned up guns. More recent data showed similar results.

Despite that, the number of stop and frisks have gone up significantly since the program began. The city counters by saying that the number of stop and frisks have dropped sharply in the last year after new training was given to officers about what constitutes reasonable suspicion for stops and searches.

Belated efforts do not save the blatantly unconstitutional policy that targeted blacks.

So why is President Obama considering nominating NYPD Chief Ray Kelly to run the Department of Homeland Security?

He calls her decision “offensive and disturbing.”

I find Ray Kelly offensive and disturbing.

How about you?

Edited to clarify title and text that President Obama is considering nominating Ray Kelly to run DHS.


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Consider where else will you see stories about Whitey Bulger, Operation Fast and Furious, the corrupting War on Drugs, the startling implications of Erwin Schrodinger’s cat, Judge Shira Scheindlin, Mayor Bloomfield, and Ray Kelly’s stop and frisk policy?

We streeeeeeetch your mind.



63 Responses to Why is President Obama considering nominating Ray Kelly to run DHS?

  1. Lonnie Starr says:

    Probably for the same reason that Bush nominated Kerik.

  2. Deborah Moore says:

    Good Morning, People,
    I’m wondering where everyone is.
    I imagine that the hosts are worn out from all their dancing last night.

    • Elijah says:

      I’m here Deborah! Welcome to the weekend m’dear.

      • Deborah Moore says:

        Gah Morning.
        Since I don’t work – at least outside the home and for a paycheck – pretty much every day is the same for me. ‘Course on the weekend I get to invite my husband to help me with whichever project I’m working on. I like the help. Ha.
        Do you have any plans for the w/e?

  3. ay2z says:

    An intro, working on the next nw clip to address something further in the 10 steps to the suppression of civili liberties.

  4. Tzar says:

    Ray Kelly’s advice to the public, “deal with it” (5:08)

  5. bettykath says:

    From 1932

  6. Xena says:

    Race cannot satisfy the reasonable suspicion test and statistics have proven and Judge Scheindlin found that the NYPD relies on race to justify their stop-and-frisk policy.

    Zimmerman relied on race when calling in suspicious teens, and when he called the cops on Trayvon, he referred to Trayvon in the plural.

  7. Chuck Berry schools Keith Richards.

    Don’t let ’em steal it away.

  8. We, damnit. Johnny B. Goode

  9. Its gotta be rock and roll music if you want to dance with me.

  10. No introductions needed.

  11. Crane’s coming home tonight.

    I’m in the mood for a new deal . . .

  12. aussie says:

    Near as I can make out, nothing in “Homeland Security” is in any way legal or constitutional, so Kelly might be fine for the job.

    FBI’s not far behind; major successes seem to all be stings and rarely anything real. Boys playing cops & robbers and James Bond, only with real people’s real lives.

    The country would be a lot more secure without both of these.

  13. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Posted by 3chicspolitico:

    Oh God!!!!!!

    • bettykath says:

      Talk about white privilege!!

      • Tzar says:

        well…I disagree
        I don’t really see it as a privilege to live any where near such an individual. Personally I wish I could give half the country to her and her ilk and just leave them be to bask in their “privilege”. I want nothing to do with such people, it is not interesting, it is not fun, it is not pleasurable to interact with such mentality in anyway.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I totally hear you, Tzar.

        I was so upset when I listened to this Joan woman. I was all over the place when I commented in response to it at 3chicspolitico.

        Here are my comments there:

        “Those People”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        Thinking of the 1964 Democratic Convention and Fannie Lou Hamer’s discovery about Liberals and Democrats!!!!!!!!

        The betrayals!

        How do you trust any white person? How do you trust me? How would you trust that white radio host if he moved to the Upper West Side? Would he develop her thinking?


        How do you stop the madness? It is snowballing.


        So, I am just now getting it.
        You all have known for a lifetime.
        This is what the white power structure means and has always produced. It is systemic.

        And after all of these comments of mine over an hour of so I posted “Blowin’ in the Wind (good comments by Peter Yarrow before he sings) :

        • Tzar says:

          that’s part of my point
          she does not upset me at all
          I don’t seek to change her mind because such thinking at such a late age is, for the most part, immunized (thought blocking) from change.

          PS could not find this entire Episode of Phillip Zimbardo’s “Psychology”(I think it was episode 25), right before he segmented into the blue eye brown eye experiment, he discussed the process of “thought blocking” as it relates to cults.

    • concernedczen says:

      The host handled her well.

  14. bettykath says:

    Why would Kelly be considered? Kelly has proven that he doesn’t consider the Constitution binding when the boss says to f’get it. Obama has just put all the Bush (starting with Bush 1) Constitutional abuses on steroids.

    • bettykath says:

      Actually, the recent federal case where the stop and frisk routine was struck down may mean that Kelly is looking for a new job. Being considered for DHS would be a face saving step up for him even if he doesn’t get the job.

  15. kllypyn says:

    certain people have no [problem violating the constitution when it suits their purposes. but then they claim to support the constitution.

  16. YQ says:

    According to the “Curious Case of Chavis Carter”, they still miss guns even when they do frisk… that’s IF you believe that those 2 cops actually missed the gun.

    On the subject of frisking, I volunteered at a recycling center last year and spoke to a white kid doing community service hours. He told that he and his friend were caught with coke and weed while on the way home. His friend took the coke charge, but this guy stuffed weed inside of his butt crack where it was never found. Once he got to booking, he farted out the weed bag and slid it in his shoe. Thus, he ended up in jail with 5 grams of weed on his person-and nobody knew about it.

    Frisking doesn’t work at all, neither does the justice system.

  17. J4TMinATL says:


    This is quite interesting. Has Obama publicly endorsed him yet? Last I heard anything on the matter was back mid July.

  18. Two sides to a story says:

    Off-topic message from the Dream Defenders

    My Good Friends and Cherished Family,

    Today marks day 31 of Dream Defenders #takeoverFL campaign petitioning our state’s elected leaders and Julian Bond will be at the capitol at 2pm to join the Dream Defenders in making a BIG ANNOUNCEMENT.

    Many of you have been keeping up with the hard work of many students and young professionals within State of Florida to address Trayvon’s Law – ending the School-to-Prison Pipeline, Repeal of the Stand Your Ground, and banning Racial Profiling. It hasn’t been easy but it has been for a greater purpose to ensure that black and brown children will be able to walk peacefully in their neighborhoods and not be profiled, not be stereotyped, and not feel threatened.

    We know this work just isn’t about policy but about a commitment to change the human heart, and for that purpose we have remained resolute and stayed in the Capitol.

    Today marks Day 31 — That’s 30 days and 30 nights of individuals from young people that have decided to take a stand!

    Please tune in tonight. This is an exclamation point in our story and we hope that you will join us.



    Help Us TWEET about TODAY’S press conference:

    Julian Bond will be with @dreamdefenders today for a MAJOR announcement at 3pm EST. Tune in LIVE @ bit.ly/takeoverFL

    After 30 days and 30 nights in the Florida Capitol, @dreamdefenders will be making a huge announcement at 3pm EST

    Thank you,

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  19. Malisha says:

    Kelly is just a boorish, power-hungry, racist, trash-talking bully. Exactly the kind of person Obama (and all other politicians) WANT to head up the euphemistically-named Department of Organization and Pre-Emptive Control for the New Fed-Feudalism. DOPE CONE FF.

    • Two sides to a story says:


    • looneydoone says:

      Obama is far to the right of Eisenhower, Nixon, Gerald Ford. He’s a neo-con, free trader, corporatist

      Why not consider someone like former Police Chief Norm Stamper for DHS or “Drug Czar” ??

      • Drew says:

        Rudy Guiliani for Department of City Planning.

        • looneydoone says:


          I really don’t know much about East Coast/ NYC
          Norm Stamper is a progressive, member of LEAP (Law Enforcement Against Prohibition)..he’d be a good “Drug Czar” or Dir. of Homeland Security

          • Drew says:

            Obama wouldn’t appoint a moderate “Democrat”, let alone a progressive. He’s all about getting as many Republicans in there as he can. There’s no reason for it either.

            Sorry to be dismissive of your suggestion. I just despise Obama.

  20. Two sides to a story says:

    Is Obama a secret Republican? Are there shady backroom deals that tie his hands and force him to make embarrassing “considerations”?

  21. Girlp says:

    Obama is more conservative then most people think, Kelly is a really bad choice however Obama believes or knows congress will put him through I think that’s why he picked him.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I laugh any time conservative acquaintances rail on about Obama being a far-left socialist. He’s far more like them than they will admit, just a lot more pragmatic and compassionate.

      • Girlp says:

        He is more middle of the road but on some subjects he is very conservative and this is one area where he is very conservative. The far right think anyone is libral if they don’t agree with them on every subject, every idea. But this guy he picked is bad news we have protections under the constitution and whatever a candidates political leanings are they should honor and follow the constitution…The NYPD is racially profiling and that is illegal

      • Drew says:

        Yea, Repubs should be into him, yet they’re generally too dumb to realize this.

        Good thing that as illiterates they are not allowed to vote.

      • Dave says:

        If Obama was white, Republicans would be naming their children after him.

  22. Drew says:

    To satisfy right-wingers, who will hate him for something else anyway?

    Naw, I think it’s because he actually likes Kelly. The guy is a center-right Republican, plain and simple.

  23. Drew says:

    To satisfy right-wingers, wh

  24. fauxmccoy says:


  25. Unabogie says:

    While I agree about stop and frisk, where has it been announced that Ray Kelly has been nominated?

    • I will insert the left out word “considering.

      Thanks for pointing that out.

      • Trained Observer says:

        New York City’s mayor is Michael BloomBERG, and apparently Ray Kelly is his choice among what’s available.

        • Trained Observer says:

          I don’t know enough about Ray Kelly, who serves at the pleasure of NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg, to have an opinion even remotely informed … but if Kelly becomes President Obama’s choice, he’s definitely miles above George W. Bush’s short-lived pick to lead Homeland Security — Bernard Kerik, who got nailed for employing an illegal alien as a nanny, and who pleaded guilty for assorted ethics violations. After that, a grand jury issued a 16-count indictment against him involving mail fraud, wire fraud, and lying to the IRS. He pleaded out to some of those charges before being sentenced to a federal pen.

          Sometimes it pays not to become too successful or to get a presidential nomination … all kinds of stuff can surface to derail an allegedly “successful” law enforcement career.

          All the talk about Kelly as a potential Obama nominee may be a trial balloon to see if he goes the way of W’s Kerik.

        • Yes, I know Bloomberg is the mayor.

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