When the criminal justice system fails

Sunday, August 11, 2013

Good morning to all of our friends:

Vigilante justice happens when the criminal justice system fails.

The Detroit Free Press reports today:

On a pleasant, partly sunny afternoon, an armed security guard stood watch over an apartment building in the Hubbard Farms neighborhood in southwest Detroit.

The guard wouldn’t say why he was there. But behind him last Tuesday, scrawled onto the ornate stone facade of the building, the word “rapist” could still be seen, even after efforts that morning to scrub it off. A faded blue arrow sprayed above the graffiti letters still pointed to an apartment window, still condemning whoever lived in that first-floor home.

But the 43-year-old occupant wasn’t there any longer. His family moved him, afraid he’d be killed.

The alleged victim is a 15-year-old girl with Down’s Syndrome who told her family three weeks ago that the 43-year-old man raped her. They immediately called the police.

She told the police that the man invited her into his apartment, told her to take off her clothes, and raped her. Then he took nude photos of her with his cell phone.

Although police obtained biological samples for DNA testing from medical personnel (i.e., rape kit swabs), they did not deliver the samples to the Michigan State Police Crime Lab until Monday of last week, an inexcusable 19-day delay.

Meanwhile, news about the assault and the identity of the alleged perpetrator, who struggles with mental illness and is generally regarded as a freak, spread like wildfire throughout the community via social media like facebook as well as word of mouth.

Police finally arrested the man 12-days after the alleged assault, but he refused to answer questions and was released two days later because prosecutors declined to charge him without more evidence, presumably because the crime lab had not received the rape kit for testing. Police did manage to obtain DNA swabs from the suspect to use as a reference sample before they released him.

The community was outraged when the suspect was released without charge. This is what happened next.

It happened about 1 p.m. Monday. The suspect walked past Giovanna’s Lounge. A witness saw a man on a bicycle ride up, carrying a baseball bat. He jumped off and yelled: “You like raping little girls?”

Then he hammered the man’s legs and continued beating him. The witness called police, but they showed up too late, saying they had been diverted to a fatal shooting outside a nearby Rite Aid store.

Meanwhile, the suspect had left Giovanna’s, somehow making his way up the street, where he was accosted again. Witnesses said up to five people beat the man in front of a home on the corner. A young boy said he saw someone kick the man in the face. Police came, witnesses said, but the man went home with a relative, who took him to the hospital with head and leg wounds. No one was arrested in his beating.

The man is fortunate to have survived.

His apartment has been broken into and vandalized. The word, “rapist” has been spray-painted on the walls.

Needless to say, he no longer lives there.

Do you think we will see more vigilante justice as our criminal justice system continues to fail?

Other news:

Hannah Anderson was rescued yesterday evening and the man who kidnapped her, James DiMaggio, is dead.

Rafael Caro Quintero, walked free Friday after a federal court overturned his 40-year sentence for agent Enrique “Kiki” Camarena’s kidnapping, torture and murder. The three-judge appeals court in the western state of Jalisco ordered Caro Quintero’s immediate release on procedural grounds after 28 years behind bars, saying he should have originally been prosecuted in state instead of federal court.


Please keep those donations coming. Although our situation has improved, we are not out of the woods yet.

143 Responses to When the criminal justice system fails

  1. Lonnie Starr says:

    Yep, that’s about the size of it, if people lose respect for the law they’ll have no reason to rely upon it. When all hell breaks loose as a result of the public’s loss of faith, it will become impossible to govern the nation as a free country, everyone will have to surrender their rights to be able to obtain some semblance of order, so they can get on with the tasks of raw survival. Nor will raw survival be easy here, as other nations begin “eating our lunch”, because they do have some kind of order.

    America is predicated on the idea that most people would rather be free and have rights, than there are those who would be either crooked and/or superior to other citizens in the eyes of the law. Today that does not seem to be the case, claims of superiority based on skin color among other things is tolerated, accepted and/or otherwise enforced even by law enforcement. Not to mention legislatures who routinely fashion bills to dis empower citizens of various stripes for political, racial and financial purposes.

    It is not to difficult to identify the causes of the nations decay, it’s all but impossible to do much about it at all. Too many people with power and too many people with personal concerns stand in the way. The mortgage, the social status quo, the college degree, the job, the bills, the retirement plan, allow far too many to each quietly accept the decay without complaint. So that a “death by a thousand cuts” besieges the nation, one day at a time. By the time things are so intolerable that no one can function any longer, the damage is too far along to be corrected.

    Meanwhile we keep watching and waiting, signing petitions and marching in the streets. But the media isn’t there with us, it belongs to the very people who are profiting by the decay. Which doesn’t portend well for the system itself. Can that be changed? There are various plans that would do it but, none seem to have much traction so far.

  2. commenting says:

    I see the sale of drugs as a victimless crime, if the government wants to protect the citizens from drugs they can do so by getting to the root of the problem. American banks recieve billions od dollars in drug money….its in America that the drug money gets cleaned….truckload of drug money drive into these banks…the banks simply get a million dollar fine when they are caught…when an employee snitches….the bankers are allowed to make millions on drug money, the big drug lords make millions but the black man who makes 50 dollars from selling crack is the scapegoat, he is the one that is imprisoned for selling drugs…this is the war on drugs…putting black men and women in jail

  3. commenting says:

    I am happy at the efforts of erivc holder, this must be done, especially now that a blac man is in office as president…too many blacks are being srnt yo prisin for drug possesion…this solves nothing, this aids scociety in no way…..when these men come from prison they can’t find a job due to their record so what choice do they have other than to sell drugs to survive….

    • I have seen too many people black and white sent to prison when they needed rehab, Our country has and is failing, education systems are collapsing and no jobs . I live in Michigan unemployment is high school systems closed and no jobs, police are worthless .People need jobs to survive. food banks feed the poor and stand in these lines and listen to how people lost jobs, homes and state denies food stamps . People of all races and religions are denied help and hope so they turn to crime. we are home to the poor and helpless as politicians feed us lies

  4. silk says:

    the police are well over rated in this country . they can be part of the growing problem in this country in term of racism . i beleave that the people in this country should all come together and protest strongly against the police . they start more trouble then terrorist. they are a growing problem to the common person .

    • Malisha says:

      Nowadays if the police show up, either (a) if you’re Black, you’re in danger; or (b) if you’re white, they’re gonna shoot your dog.

  5. silk says:

    i may be a little late on this , but ive notice that the police in my part of the country has become more more negligent and very disrespectful . alot of situation that involves the police , tends to be mishandle with neglect . the police in my part of town , tends to be as bull headed children of the corn. very ignorant ,self righteous and quick to kill u for jay walking.

  6. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    I am thinking of Sybrina and Tracy all the time and sending them my loving thoughts and prayers.

    I have so much respect for their dignity and the positive work and outreach they are engaged in amidst their heartbreak over the killing of their precious child.

    What a model they are for us!

    Hopefully, people will sign their petition:


    “Change for Trayvon: Stand Your Ground laws must be reviewed”

 Last year, our son Trayvon Martin was stalked, chased down and killed by George Zimmerman, and Zimmerman faced no punishment whatsoever. That’s in large part because Florida is one of at least 21 states with some form of ‘Stand Your Ground’ law, which enables people like George Zimmerman to claim self-defense.
    We’re calling on 21 governors whose states have some form of ‘Stand Your Ground’ laws to review those laws and amend them so that people who instigate conflicts — people like George Zimmerman — won’t be able to use these laws to get away with murder.
    ‘Stand Your Ground’ was never meant to give aggressors the opportunity to get away with murder, but that is what happened when our son, Trayvon Benjamin Martin was killed. After Trayvon’s death, law enforcement used the law as an excuse to refuse to arrest George Zimmerman. Even worse, the jury in the case was instructed to think of what Zimmerman did as self-defense, even though Zimmerman ignored instructions from the police and instigated conflict with our son, who was just trying to get home to his father.
    We are shocked and heartbroken by the jury’s decision to allow our son’s killer to go free. Despite our despair, we must honor Trayvon’s legacy by doing all that we can to protect other young people from being targeted, pursued, and senselessly murdered.
    We are not the only ones calling for ‘Stand Your Ground’ laws to be reviewed. President Obama spoke out on the need for review, and prominent Republicans like Senator John McCain have joined him. This is not a Democrat or Republican issue, it’s not ‘black’ or ‘white’ issue, it’s a wrong and right issue. This is a matter of making sure that no other family will ever have to go through what we have been through. No parents should ever have to know what it feels like to watch your child’s killer walk free.
    Here in Florida, we are pushing for an amendment to Florida’s ‘Stand Your Ground’ law. Sign our petition to call on all at least 21 governors to review their laws and consider similar amendments so that they can protect children in their states, just as we wish Florida would have protected Trayvon.
    We want to say thank you to all of you who have stood up for our son. Because of all of your efforts, Trayvon’s life is celebrated all over the world. Please continue to stand with us as we fight to ensure that his legacy is to leave behind a safer and more peaceful world for all our sons and daughters.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      The NAACP is also modeling how to react in a positive manner.

      It is offering great guidance and taking carefully-thought-out action in the form of their petition and their proposed “Trayvon’s Law”:

      Click to access 6af94d1753728a09c1_dcm6baott.pdf

      Thousands of our fellow citizens have also modeled how to react in a meaningful way by demonstrating and by attending the 100 cities rally at the federal buildings asking the DOJ to investigate violation to Trayvon’s civil rights.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I really doubt that gz has received threats of any kind. However, if he has and it can be proven with recordings or emails, I would condemn such hateful threats!

        I am against such vigilantism.

        In addition, people become the evil they are against.

        Because Dart Vader was not given the proper guidance, he grew to become the evil he was fighting…..the shadow in this linked picture shows what a well-intentioned person became.

        • You all have thoughtful comments says:

          Correction to

          In addition, people become the evil they are against.

          I should have said, “People who use vigilante justice against evil, become the evil that they are fighting.

  7. aussie says:

    Some commonsense at last. Seems the Feds may stop prosecuting for minor drugs in those states that have legalised it, at least.


    • Deborah Moore says:

      I just read that elsewhere. Good news.
      Save those cells for rapists and child murderers.
      Thanks, aussie.
      Progress takes baby steps sometimes.
      (Smoke ’em if you’ve got ’em.)

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:


        You always have great posts and replies, Deborah!

        • Deborah Moore says:

          Thanks, you.
          I just told my husband, Oh gosh, they prolly think I’m some kind of pot head. But, that line was always used at band practice.
          Hey, he said. You mean marching band.
          Honey’s a crack up on a Monday morning. 🙂
          (Hope you good and happy.)

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:


      Great news!

    • Girlp says:

      This should be nationwide, they are turning kids into crimminals they have a record which is difficult to expunge if the family is working class or poor they often don’t have the money to pay for this. I have never understood why a drug that can change someone’s personality, cause them to black out, is highly addictive, destroy’s the liver, the brain, the heart is legal and the one that makes a person mellow, and want to eat and sleep is illegal. Personally I don’t thing any drug is good for and MJ can be harmful during the years the brain is still growing still to make the child a crimminal is too much.

  8. crazy1946 says:

    I suppose that like many other people, when it comes to my attention that there are problems of major significance that I have no factual knowledge of, I set out to acquire at least a small amount of information on the subject. When searching for the reasoning behind why it was deemed acceptable to ignore the plight of the mentally challenged in this country, it became quite obvious that there were no books/reference material that were in my eyes current enough to be applicable. Other than a few books that were obtainable dating back more than twenty five years there seems to be nothing else of substance out there… All those words lead us to here, does anyone have a recommendation on viable sources of information (factual) about the current treatment of the criminally insane within the justice system as related to the medical community and the local community? Perhaps as my name suggests, I am crazy to think that mental health and criminal activity should be considered a problem to the community? What I am looking for is something that is current and not ancient history, as we as a nation are evolving, the problem must be evolving as well and to use data and or practices from ancient history would not provide the desired end results…

  9. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    “Justice (If You’re 17) –Tribute for Trayvon” – Published on July 14

  10. colin black says:

    Xena says:

    August 10, 2013 at 5:21 pm

    Those finds always fascinate me. They also make me wonder why those civilizations ceased.


    crazy1946 says:

    August 10, 2013 at 6:02 pm

    Many centuries from now, when the natives sit around the campfire discussing what they have found that day, they will probably ask the same question about the ruins of this country that they have discovered……


    colin black says:

    August 11, 2013 at 9:15 pm

    Through out history major civilisations rise an fall the reasons are many .

    As can disease especialy in what we call ancient times wich geologically are not Ancient but very recent.
    Entire Citys abandobed by aztect an earlier cultures in an around the andies .

    Citys built with huge monolithic stones so heavy even our best cranes to day would have trouble lifting them.

    Not only that thease 60 ton rocks are placed in such presion that not even a cigarete paper could be slid between them.

    Summarian civilisation seemed to ceace rapidly as did countless other.

    Natural disasters earth quakes or volcanic eruptions can also stop aq society in its tracks.

    On a very small scale Vesuvius wiped out a great Roman city of culture commerce in Pompey in 24 hours.

    Not the eruption but the gas an ash cloud that reined down .

    Today Yellowstone sits atop a huge chamber of magma perhaps fifty to seventy miles below the crust depending on where the geo phiz is measured from.

    Iys possab.y the largest deposit of magma within an upper chamber on the planet.

    An a couple of billions years ago before the earth was a coll or the crust as thick as today.

    Thease massive magma chambers were the norm an the erupptions were truly ausome .

    Mount Hellana time fibe thopusand an the lava out put on theas super massive erupptions is beyond copprehesion

    Trillions of tons of cubic metre of lave magma beind poured onto the upper mantle .

    Enough to cover not just a few squre miles but more than enough to cover thousands of miles in every direction with molten rock.

    An if such a super eruption on that sort of level were to happen today tomorrow or next week.

    It would not only bring down American civilisation but the the entire planet would be faceing the equivalent of nuclear winters for decades as the ash cloud alone would envelop the entire planent an most of us will be doomed. Some preppers an such types

    Government vip ect will have bunkers an such but most of us can kiss our butts sianarra..

    Yellowstone is covered with moniters an gps satilites mesureing the elevation an movement of the region.

    An its active for the last fifty years an with to days tech can measure to the millimetre.

    An it rises up to four feet an then relaxes back downnnnn an then repeats.

    May stay stable for a couple of years but then starts elesticating again.

    The last ten years its been its most active since readings an recordiings began some hundred years ago by yellowstopnes national geographic society.

    Streching by as much as 16 feet in some regions. An by stretching elasticating I mean the lands riseing .

    Action an reaction its riseing due to activity in the massive magma chamber below.

    don’t know why theres no sun out in the sky STORMY WEATHER……

  11. colin black says:

    Every time you hear a bell ring it means an Angel has earned there wings.

    Every time the criminal justice system fails means a Demon has earned his HORNS…

  12. Deborah Moore says:

    Notice my language. It was careful.
    I was not judging.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:


      Why not say that Glenn’s thinking sounds like George Zimmerman’s thinking?

      I think it does.

  13. mindyme62 says:

    A neighboring county posts signs in the yards of sexual predators identifying them. IMO this is wrong. These men have served their time and in no way shape or form should they ever be allowed around anyone’s child. Of course this invites vigilantism.


    • cielo62 says:

      mindyme~ sexual predators NEVER get “cured.” It doesn’t matter if they “served their time.” They WILL prey again, given the opportunity. I think it’s wise to know who is around and what s/he looks like, for prevention. And yes, it DOES invite vigilantes. But what would you rather have? An innocent victim (a child) or a protected monster? I’ll take an innocent child any day over a pedophile/ rapist so-called “rights”.


      • Xena says:


        IMO, when checking those registries, the charges should be examined and understood before passing judgment. I remember a case where a man streaked at a ball game. He was required to register as a sex offender.

        Also, I know of a case in Wisconsin where the man was charged with statutory rape. It was his girlfriend who told him she was 18. He was 19 at the time and she was actually 17. The girl’s mom didn’t want her dating Black men, so she persisted until there was an arrest.

        Cielo, you’re right that sexual predators are never cured, but not everyone who has served time for a sexual offense is truly guilty of the type of offense that they would repeat.

        • aussie says:

          Half the people on sex offenders registries committed “victimless” crimes — the underage guy’s underage girlfriend, streaking, a guy pissing in public (shock horror his penis exposed!!) kids sexting each other.

          Victimless means if they do re-offend there will be NO VICTIMS then either. So what the hell is everyone afraid of?

          Sure, a violent rapist or pedophile is a danger. A lot of the people on the registry are not. Leave them alone.

          • Xena says:

            @aussie. I don’t know the percentage, but I do know that our judicial system convicts the innocent and lets the guilty go free. For those registered as sex offenders, I would check out the offense before I condemn them as dangerous. Like you said, was it a guy charged with public exposure because he stopped by the road to take a pee after drinking a super-sized soda with no rest stop in sight? Or, was it a guy charged with public exposure in a playground?

          • cielo62 says:

            aussie~ And the issue HERE is that there is NO distinction provided when a person is labelled a sex offender. THERE is where change should come, and has been taking place. Some victimless crimes have been de-criminalized based on age, but I think streaking is till considered a sex offense. BUT UNTIL THEN, no, I won’t “leave them alone” if they are close to my campus in direct violation of their restrictions or caught there by someone else. Just because the laws aren’t perfect doesn’t mean that we can’t keep enforcing them until sensible changes are put in place. Considering the consequences, I have ZERO tolerance for registered sex offenders anywhere near me.


          • aussie says:

            Cielo what are the possible consequences if a guy was 19 and had sex with his 17 year old girlfriend? what possible danger could you or anyone else be in from him?

            Or are you saying let’s demonise him because he’s on the register, and get vigilantes to hound him out of his home? call him pedophile? vandalise his car?

            You KNOW the system is corrupt and stupid, so why are you going to take their word for it? at least have the sense to find out what the person was actually registered FOR.

          • cielo62 says:

            Aussie- that info is not usually available because of confidentiality laws. That is what I’ve been trying to say. All that’s posted is the persons name, not the actual offense. I don’t care about teens having sex. That is one area where changes have been made, to exclude the incidents of teen sex within several years. Sexting is no longer considered child pornography if shared between teens. STILL I DO consider those football players to be sick people, to rape a drunk girl and videotape it and put it online! They are legitimately labelled sex offenders. The blanket labels we have used are being modified and that is good. But what do you think of “criminal rights” people who hide the records of pedophiles and rapists? Without a sex offender registry these truly dangerous people hide too near potential victims. And because of confidentiality, a person doesn’t know if the “sex offender” in the neighborhood is a maligned teen or a serial pedophile who has “served his time.” At some point, private and public good are going to clash. In the case of sex offenders, I don’t think they should have ANY confidentiality to their crime.

            Sent from my iPad

  14. Detroit is bankrupt ,police are out armed by street gangs,and like Flint the police are few and pick what and choose what to investigate, no money, maybe poor training and out raged citizens but guess what people will band together when they have no protection ,they have no choice if they want to live this is a war zone and innocent people are dying and no one cares so sorry Fred but people have to arm and protect themselves even if it goes against all you believe in

    • Deborah Moore says:

      Where do you read that Fred’s piece is about people protecting themselves?
      You might be reading this post through Detroit Eyes, and I understand that, but, you also might be misreading the post.
      Or, you might not be and I should go eat dinner.

      • Unless you live here do not judge, the post is clear about vigilantes however as our cities crumble and go bankrupt you will see more and more people taking law into their own hands and people in mid Michigan do not have it well this is a war zone and unless the government sends in troops it will be worse My point is the system and country are failing and sorry I do not believe a rapist should be free and do not think people should take law into their own hands however I understand how people feel I live in Flint and we are just as bad off

        • cielo62 says:

          Glenn~ And you just proved my point that every persona dn every society has a breaking point. Detroit is already there. People WILL band together, and like Neighborhood Watch, they will get together. And UNLIKE NW, they will be armed. And can you really blame them?


        • You all have thoughtful comments says:


          You sound like George Zimmerman.

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            Detroit is bankrupt ,police are out armed by street gangs,and like Flint the police are few and pick what and choose what to investigate, no money, maybe poor training and out raged citizens but guess what people will band together when they have no protection ,they have no choice if they want to live this is a war zone and innocent people are dying and no one cares so sorry Fred but people have to arm and protect themselves even if it goes against all you believe in. [Glenn]


            however I understand how people feel I live in Flint and we are just as bad off

            I do not want to be “understanding about how people feel” ……that would be the first step to beginning to accept vigilantism which I will NEVER accept.

        • You all have thoughtful comments says:

          Good morning! I need to let you know my “frame of thinking” this morning in reference to what I wrote above here last night.

          Right now, we know that hate groups and militias have grown by 4 times since the 2008 election. We know about the racism that has reared its ugly head. We know about the gun owners (not all of them) who are spouting nutty, crazy things.

          In such an atmosphere, I worry about the potential for the return to the vigilantism of the Jim Crow days.

          • wow I am nothing like George Zimmerman but I do believe in survival, I lived all over this country and I understand people very well which taught me tolerance. I try to help others, I live in a mixed neighborhood, black,Mexican and white,We help each other and we sometimes have to go out and stand beside each other for you call the police and they never show up.I carried a gun for 27 years I never pulled a gun in anger and even when attacked I never shot anyone, I learned how to deescalate violence .Then went to law school so I could help the poor.however remember this before you call me a vigilante ,mala in se or mala prohibitaoh with out police protection we only have the first term also if you do not know what the term says look it up

          • cielo62 says:

            Glenn~ Yeah, I learned that term in “Legally Blond” (regulatory instead of dangerous). I agree with you that very soon neighborhoods will become armed because there is no policing authority. Will that be considered vigilante, when all people want is to live in peace?


          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            You are a responsible, tolerant person, Glenn, who helps others and the poor. You are to be commended!

            When I said that your words above sounded like gz I was ONLY referring to his words “they always get away” which I have interpreted to refer to the slow, poor police reaction time.

            I think Taaffe encouraged gz with all of his words.

            I think we have to be careful, knowing that there could be a “hot head” reading this blog……a hot head who is “fed up” and “not going to take it anymore”. Such a person might take the “understanding” comments and the “who can blame them?” comment as encouragement to go out and take action as a vigilante.

          • blessings to all and I pray people can learn to be tolerant of others it is nice to be able to share comments without threats , I hope and pray police can once again become champions of the people they are suppose to serve and if not Lawyers take a stand for the people or we are all doomed

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            Have a great day, Glenn!

    • MDH says:

      I think Glen is touching on the end result of the problem Frederick is pointing out,

      For as long as I can remember, large sections of Detroit have been relegated to a status wherein the justice system does not function. For example, at least two of the arsons on Pickford in the late 1980s by my father’s home were done by locals who got fed up that their children had to walk by these places on the way to Holcomb Instead, he sold to a women who had scraped together enough money to buy her first home.

      Anyhow, the police told my father that the shooting was out of jealousy.

      Yea right…. it was a move by the dealer to scare my father so that he would take the next offer.

      Fast forward… the home that my father sold for $20,000 is now on the market for $2000.


      If you witnessed a man assaulting a women on that street, you would be lucky if the DPD came that day.

      So what do people do to get justice?

      Anyhow, I laugh at the Libertarians who gas off about mommy government, but live in sundown towns where there is a functional system.

      My days in Detroit gave me a glimpse of vigilante social Darwinism. No thanks, it is one big ugly that should teach a sane person the value of humanity.

      By and large, most people living in Detroit are the salt of the earth and deserve better than our lame shitstem gives them.

  15. Endless Summer says:

    Here is a link to a FireDogLake Diary “On Inequality”: http://my.firedoglake.com/cmaukonen/2013/08/11/on-inequality/

    This quote from Malcolm X sounds like it was written about the Trayvon Martin murder:

    “The press is so powerful in its image-making role, it can make the criminal look like he’s a the victim and make the victim look like he’s the criminal. This is the press, an irresponsible press. It will make the criminal look like he’s the victim and make the victim look like he’s the criminal. If you aren’t careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”

  16. aussie says:

    Yes there was a fatal shooting at a Rite Aid in Detroit early Monday afternoon. So perhaps the police were telling the truth about that.

    Of course they’d know of the shooting from the radio even if they were not the ones sent to deal with it.

  17. aussie says:

    Wow that guy is really hitting them with motions.

    Fred can they be dismissed without some kind of hearing?

  18. http://www.seminoleclerk.org/CriminalDocket/case_detail.jsp?CaseNo=592012CF001083A

    Can someone explain this to me please? Is George Zimmerman being retried?

  19. bettykath says:


    “Racial profiling is the same whether the victim is located in a neighborhood in Sanford, Florida, or an open air cafe in Yemen.”

    “The mainstream media has barely covered the Awlaki court case and has totally missed the striking similarities between the racial profiling that underlies the Obama administration’s drone program and Zimmerman’s racial profiling. But a careful examination of the drone policy reveals that it advances a form of racial profiling that is just as insidious as that practiced by George Zimmerman, differing substantially only in the scale of the violence inflicted.”

    “Unless the victims of these supremacist doctrines are granted the same rights as others, there will be more Zimmermans to end the lives of more Trayvons, and more drone pilots to end the lives of Abdulrahmans. But there is nothing inevitable about this outcome. Such horrors can be overcome with massive public action that holds government officials accountable, and lone vigilantes like Zimmerman accountable and a moral maturity that sees the victims of racial profiling as the same whether they be in a neighborhood in Sanford, Florida, or an open air cafe in Yemen.”

  20. Nef05 says:

    Do you think we will see more vigilante justice as our criminal justice system continues to fail?

    Yes. I can’t speak for other areas, but here in the “D”, it is encouraged through implication. Perhaps, not to this extent, but that is (one of) the inherent problem with vigilantism.

  21. Trained Observer says:

    “Do you think we will see more vigilante justice as our criminal justice system continues to fail?” — Frederick Leatherman

    Absolutely, yes.

    Gatekeepers of old — law enforcement, court honchos, mainstream media, etc. — no longer can sit on evidence and news, taking their sweet time to act on or report on what’s happening in communities.

    Undue delay in the appearance of justice combined with the public’s increasing demand for immediate gratification makes for highly combustible situations.

    Cover-ups are requiring more skill, and increasingly are failing.

    All this inevitably will lead to more violence, and additional loss of life.

  22. Two sides to a story says:

    Off topic – Fogen supporters all up in arms (as usual) about a new mural in Jacksonville depicting the killing of Trayvon Martin –


    • cielo62 says:

      LOL! yeah the truth STINGS! I hope one day the trust will hurt like HELL, right between the eyes.


      • crazy1946 says:

        I wish I had the money to buy/rent a billboard in Sanford to put up a sign about how Trayvon was murdered by a gun toten wanna be cop, Afro/Peruvian thug…… Or better yet, put this on the bill board. “Welcome to Sanford, Fl. Home of George Zimmerman who single handedly protected the city from an unarmed 17 year old child who was walking home from the store wearing a hoodie walking in the rain!” “Beware if you are black and wear a hoodie, you are fair game in Sanford!” Now, think for a moment, could he sue me for that? Hmmm, wonder how much a bill board would cost….

  23. elijah says:

    Excellent post Fred.

    What I see here is the devolvement of the American community. This is Ariel Castro’s neighborhood, Fogen’s neighborhood and probably mine. This all reminds me of the classic Twilight Zone, “The Monsters are due on Maple Street”. Instead of the threat of Communism unifying us – it’s now the threat of each other.

    Sad thing is – it works really well in dividing people, especially in a fairly prosperous nation where alot of people have something to lose..which despite our inequities is still alot. Despite all our bad stuff, I’m still a fan of the USA and making it better everyday. Surf’s up!

    • MichelleO says:

      Yes. I saw that particular show a few months ago, and copied the post narrative statement of the host: If we’re licensed to be monsters, we end up being one thing: truly monsters.

      How apropo.

  24. theveerybest says:

    Good Afternoon All,

    I was the secretary for an HDFC in Harlem, NYC. I can’t explain what an HDFC is because of life constraints, but please Google it.

    One day, detectives from the 30th Precinct came and knocked on my door to ask about a subletter on the first floor. As far as I knew, he was a nice man, always paid his rent early, said his good days and good evenings, and worked as some sort of teacher.

    I, 23 years old with 3 homeschooled kids, don’t eat no pork, white flour, white sugar, high fructose corn syrup, red dyes #4 or #6, no makeup, perm or weave, lips brown from weed smoke, and most wholeheartedly- a Baby Daddy I’d slit your belly, fight and then get any female on the scene to jump you over (and that’s real shit, if you were cool with me, you already knew) and an activist, Black Power (bt most of the people who like what I liked and did what I did were White, go figure) all day RBG queen, answered that door.

    They told me he was a sex offender and to tell him they came past and then to call them when I saw him. They told me he was a rapist and I told EVERYBODY.

    I put the bird out.

    And when he came home, one of the neighbors from the first floor told him to come knock for me. He told me that he knew he was supposed to register. He also told me that he got that status because he was had a girlfriend that was 15 when he was 18 but he did not know that and her parents had pressed charges.

    I believed him and I felt so sorry for what I had done. I was trying to rescind it bt it was too late because I had already told my kids’ dad and other men in the building and he WAS NOT budging. At the time, we had a 1 year old and newborn baby daughters. It was a lost cause trying to tell my kids’ father or ANY of the brothas in the building ANYTHING.

    I did not call the detectives when he came bt one of the neighbors on the first floor did. When the detectives came, the man was on my floor, which was the top floor and he could not go downstairs because most of the women on the 4th floor had kids. He went to the roof landing and police officers in uniforn went up there with him. The detectives came and I told them that 15 and 18 happens, especially depending on how the girl is built and especially if she lies about her age. The detective wasn’t hearing that shit. He was like this man was not EIGHTEEN in fucken 1997. And when he said that my kids’ father told me come inside and they went to the roof landing and got him.

    Saying that to say, when we used to watch Maury Povich and the women were lying about paternity, my kids’ father and all his friends were against them but when allegations are made about sexual assault, if MEN are against another MAN, that is a straight up red flag. If men believe that another man is guilty, its because he IS.

    I think the fact that in jail a thief could be cool, a drug dealer could be cool, an arsonist could be cool, all of these people that society rejects could somehow find acceptance but… A rapist or a pedophile or a child moslester could NEVER be cool, why is that?!!!

    That tells you!!!

    I think the justice system forgives loopholes and allows people to get off on technicalities even tho they are really guilty but in a jury of their REAL peers, the wrong doers can’t escape because of a technicality. So even though its not technically justice on paper, according to laws on the books, real REAL justice according to the truth is actually more Godly or what God would say is right according to the laws of God that we all know despite whatever our religion is or what our race or what we believe Jesus’ race is to be. There are certain things that all of humanity judges to be good and bad, across all racial or class or political lines. And even if according to the books or the media it is not “good” as in the case of the hungry person stealing bread to eat, we know that even tho its “stealing” to take something without paying for something, it is not wrong. God said to be fruitful and multiply but what if you cannot pay for the food to keep you alive to ever multiply, for instance? Which of those laws should you most revere?

    In the case of rapists and molesters, because they steal innocence and the safety of trust, I think it should always be up to the men to deal with them. Always. The criminal justice system is made up of men, flesh and blood, who gave themselves the authority by virtue of other men, who were JUST men, that came before them. All of this is man made and man accredited, do you understand?

    I believe that when its matters like this, rapists and pedophiles and molesters should be judged by a jury of their PEERS. By other men. And loopholes, technicalities, asterisks and politricks be God-damned.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Good post. I’ve seen a few people suffer with the sex-offender label who didn’t deserve it because of angry parents. It’s a horrible thing to do someone.

    • MichelleO says:

      I can’t agree with you. I know a very old man, whose injury on a military base as a young man left him with impotency problems at a very young age. His sexual problems left him hurt, angry, and disillusioned to the point of becoming a misogynist. I remember that a very morbidly obese man was arrested and had made the news for the rape of a young girl (about 9 or 12). Imagine my horror as I listened to this man snort and deliver a statement dripping in hatred that the girl was lying because a 300 pound plus man couldn’t possibly rape anyone. He also made statements that women make money off of their “asses,” and that women don’t have sexual problems, because all they have to do is lie on their backs.

      I don’t believe that men have more superior brains or capabilities than women. I have seen too many women carry men in this life to believe that they can solve all of life’s mysteries.

  25. a2nite says:

    I’m glad DiMaggio is dead. Saves the people the cost of a trial. Who knows he much the manhunt cost.
    No expense is spared to look for a pretty white girl.

  26. looneydoone says:

    Just a few words on Rafael Caro Qintero, released two days ago after serving 28 years for the murder by torture of DEA agent “Kiki” Camarena. At the time of Caro Quinterero’s arrest in Costa Rica, he had amassed a fortune in excess of $500 million US. How ?

    Caro Quintero founded the Guadalajara cartel with Miguel Angel Felix Gallardo who trained as a Mexican Judicial Federal Police agent, and worked as a body guard for then Governor of Sinaloa State, Leopoldo Sanchez Celis. The Guadalajara cartel prospered because it enjoyed protection of the DFS under it’s chief, Miguel Nassar Haro- a CIA asset.

    Through his connections with major Honduran trafficker, Juan Matta-Ballesteros, Felix Gallardo became the connection for the Medillin cartel run by Pablo Escobar.

  27. crazy1946 says:

    After going back and reading the article one more time, one thing really stood out. Why was this accused individual even in the community with the mental problems that he had been diagnosed with? The second but equally important is has anyone verified the story that the officers that were to respond to the scene of the beating were where they implied they were? Or is this another case of looking the other way while a crime is committed? While it is quite possible that the accused is a scum bag that needs to be punished, does he not have the right to a fair trial? One could not help but to wonder if any of this (non arrest, beating, or police inaction) would have happened if this had taken place in a location that was not populated by a minority group? Perhaps after what has happened in this nation over the last six years, where we have seen some factions in this country turn back the clock by more than fifty years, I would not feel the need to question what is going on in this case… Isn’t it time we the people take back our country from the lunatic’s from the far right and place it back into the year 2013?

    • MichelleO says:

      THE PROBLEM is that nobody even knows if the story is true. The girl is reported to have said that she was late for work because she was with a friend. Later on, while at home, is when she made the statement to her family. Nineteen days later, still no rape kit results.

      Nobody really knows what happened, which is why this is a vigilante case. People shouldn’t take the law into their own hands at the word of anybody without any proof. Sadly, this girl also has a mental condition, as well as the man who is being beaten in the street. How much of this is prejudice against the mentally ill/handicapped persons? Some people have always thought that hurting others who don’t look or act like them as some kind of right.

      • crazy1946 says:

        MichelleO, If you go back to my post at 1:12 PM, you will see that we are in total agreement about the need to ensure that the story we are being told has a basis of truth to it. The post that you have responded to, is because I have serious concerns about how this person who, if the reports from the court are to be believed, is dangerous and probably should not have been on the streets. I also picked up on her comment to her boss that she was late because she was with a friend, but later that night her story changed, is it possible that she was pressured by someone to change that story? Until we know the truth about this case, I have a hard time finding the suspect guilty and applying street justice to him… Basing treatment on another human because of their appearance should not be tolerated at any level… The next question should be, will the individuals involved in the beating of this man be subject to the law or will they be allowed to evade justice for their acts?

    • Why was this accused individual even in the community with the mental problems that he had been diagnosed with?

      We closed down our mental hospitals in the late 50s and 60s and switched to a community based outpatient treatment model that was never sufficiently funded to have a realistic chance of succeeding.

      The mentally ill are mostly left to their own devices. They cycle in and out of our jails and hospitals without assistance or medication.

      The facility that holds and “treats” the largest population of mentally ill people in this country is the Los Angeles County Jail.

      • aussie says:

        Actually most of the “homes” were not a lot better than the jails are. So not a huge difference. May foster “homes” are not much better either.

      • lurker says:

        Thank you professor for pointing out that the failure of community-based treatment has been largely one of commitment and funding. Too many times I hear about how liberals shut down all the hospitals and put dangerous folks out on the street, implying that we should pre-emptively lock up mentally ill persons because they are all dangerous. You are right–prisons have become the largest dispensers of mental health treatment.

        If we could get over our national fear and mistrust of govefnment perhaps we cou.ld figure out a better way.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        thank you, ronald reagan, for introducing ‘deinstitutionalization’ upon the streets of california during your term as governor 😦

        when my much beloved father had psychotic breaks due to his bi-polarism, he was occasionally held on an involuntary 72 hour psych eval (a 51-50). he could usually hold himself together well enough during these periods and was always let go. his untreated illness became the problem of the local sheriff’s department who in their uneducated capacity, did nothing. the situation was intolerable.

    • Nef05 says:

      First question: He is still in the community because there is no where else for him to go. Funding for mental health facilities, inpatient and outpatient, were gutted long ago and have been closed for decades.

      Second: I don’t doubt they were where they said they were. Average wait time on a call here is 58 minutes, on an emergency call. This is because of many reasons, among them a population shrink from app. 2 million down to 700,000; resulting in a substantially smaller tax base, which pays for the police force, EMS and other city services. Add to that mismanagement of resources, malfeasance, outstandingly high unemployment, lack of opportunity, and outright corruption; and you end up with less police officers, less working vehicles, and overwhelming crime rate in the same amount of geographic area.

      Just because a lot of people left doesn’t mean the city itself got smaller. The people who left are generally the ones who can afford to move. The ones who can afford to move are generally the people who can afford to pay taxes and aren’t generally the ones who are committing the crimes.

      Third comment: Detroit is almost entirely populated by minorities. There is literally no area of the city that is not minority majority. In Detroit, neighborhoods are socio-economically divided, not race divided. So your point is well made, though it would be more accurate to make the comparison to a more affluent neighborhood, rather than a nonminority neighborhood.

      I suspect, however, that is probably the case in many urban areas, based on both issues, since outside of Detroit (once considered the “blackest” city in the country, by percentage, including the south) many of the more affluent neighborhoods are white or at least racially diverse. In Detroit, they’re not, though that’s changing with gentrification, and the low real estate values.

      While I understand the article makes a point of mentioning “Mexicantown”, and has a large Hispanic population, the designation is based on the number of Hispanic restaurants and businesses operating in that area. The area itself is still majority black, thus not a “minority” in Detroit. We also have a “Greektown”. It is literally one block long and takes its name from the many Greek restaurants that fill the block.

      Don’t misunderstand what I’m saying. I’m by no means making excuses. There are none. These problems did not appear over night. They took DECADES to get to this point. The apathy here is unbelievable. Despite a hotly contested mayoral primary AND a governor appointed Emergency Manager, last Tuesday’s primary had record low voter turnout. As a single female, I would have left long ago, but my mother refuses to leave and I can’t leave her here alone. Then again we live in one of those neighborhoods I mentioned that gets good police and EMS response. If that changes I may have to force the issue, for our own safety and wellbeing.

      • crazy1946 says:

        Nef05, Thank you for your response, I must admit that I was unaware of the severity of the mental health patient dumping within the community. I am glad that not only you, but Professor Leatherman furnished that information. I suppose here is what could only be called the tragedy within the tragedy! If this man is mentally ill, as indicated, then if he reaches court, and pleads insanity what will happen to him then? Will he simply be turned back loose with the community once again? Or will he go to a criminal prison where he will receive no treatment (?) and then back to the community? My question about the response because of minority status was as you stated, the article it’s self, so it was a misconception on my part to guess that the area was indeed minority (Hispanic) based on their description… Can an area that has been neglected by the government for such a long time, actually recover from the kick in the head that has been inflicted thru poor and corrupt actions of past administrations? Only time will answer that question, I suppose.

        I have to question the wisdom of politicians who place the need for weapon systems over assistance for the poor or less affluent members of our society… I liken that attitude to the attitude of the extreme right to life members that want to save an unborn embryo while in the womb, yet walk away from that child once it actually become an actually child after birth…

        • There is no treatment for the mentally ill in prison. Often, they are locked up in solitary beaten, gassed and tasered if they protest too much.

          • crazy1946 says:

            Professor, I can only say that I am astounded that we as a nation treat any member of our society that way…. And yet we claim to be a civilized nation….

          • aussie says:

            Claim to be the Greatest Nation on Earth.

            Of course the ones who claim that are healthy and white and generally have jobs.

  28. Good afternoon, everyone.

    //Do you think we will see more vigilante justice as our criminal justice system continues to fail?//

    Sure, when the cjs fails the populace, vigilantism will increasingly become the way communities deal with those who threaten the safety of the community. What worries me unfortunately is that this is also the basis by which folks like Fogen get facts wrong and take the law into their own hands against someone who may have had absolutely nothing to do with what the vigilante perceives.

    • MichelleO says:

      THE FAILURE has to do with right-wing manipulation through their defunding of many public services. The more they interfere through such organizations as NRA and ALEC, the more people are going to be fed into their very lucrative school to prison pipeline. This is their desire and expectation. Sure a few innocent white people will be caught up; but the prize is maximum black/brown deaths and imprisonment.

      • Sure, black/brown lives are targeted. But in my view, I think it’s a mistake to think it’s just right-wing manipulation. The problem is systemic, regardless of which political arm is asserting it or which is allowing it to happen.

      • bettykath says:

        The NRA and ALEC are manipulating the extreme right wing, not the other way around. It’s corporate greed that uses whatever is available to divide us.

        This is an excellent example where the right and left need to get together to find their common ground, building trust in the process, then working together to resolve, or least lessen, some of the differences.

        As to vigilantes, I hope not. We don’t need more people doing violence as a response to violence. That sets in motion a hurtful cycle that further divides people.

        • MichelleO says:

          BUT that’s exactly what’s going to happen, and what is being allowed to happen. Que Barack Obama in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1….with the happy patter….

          • bettykath says:

            It’s not all Obama’s fault. Under Reagan the federal courts were seeded with a number of extremely conservative judges and it continued through GWB. Less conservative judges never got confirmed even though the courts carried huge backlogs due to a shortage of judges.

  29. Two sides to a story says:

    I don’t think we have any more vigilante justice now than we have at any other point in history. I think we may actually have less now than in previous eras. Hopefully humanity has been evolving.

    However, if government were to collapse almost entirely, or if it comes to the point in which it only serves the elite, then we may see a lot more vigilante justice.

    • Hopefully humanity has been evolving.

      I believe we have been devolving and Exhibit 1 in support of my belief is the right wing.

      Each day they wallow in and celebrate their ignorance and stupidity.

      Loud and proud instead of embarrassed and ashamed, which they ought to be.

      Didn’t used to be that way.

      • MichelleO says:

        Was it here that I saw a graph that coincided with Richard Nixon’s War on Drugs and the up tic in imprisonment of thousands, in particular black people? I remember being aghast in the late 1990s when mainstream media announced that for the first time, black incarceration had outpaced white incarceration. I was aghast because the drum-beat in America media for the longest time, was that blacks had always been the biggest population in the prison system. See how the media and racist thinking goes hand in hand? I remember when Ebony Magazine used to present all of the College Queens and Kings from many schools. Do they do that anymore? It seems that all I see represented anymore is these stupid azzed rappers and hip hop artist. Where is the black community in setting the record straight as the mainstream media constantly represents them as being low-lives who deserve punishment and imprisonment?

        • a2nite says:

          The RW racist sexist MSM serves evil rich mostly white men. This is their message.

          These same people own the record companies who sell these messages to black people and everyone else.

          Rap used to have positive messages. Couldn’t have the uppity negros think positive or have positive images. That would disturb the natural order of white American men no culture being so superior. As far as I’m concerned, evil rich white people & culture are the problem. This is the country where slavery, evil & oppression was & still is acceptable, was the law.

          The >350 year message in American is we (our menfolk) are dangerous, inferior, immoral criminal, ignorant, not-human, scary, violent. Everything that happens is to continue & reinforce this thinking in the majority race, no actually everyone.

          We do have positive images, in my family & many families. WE know who we are.

          Everyone who doesn’t can FUCK off.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        It is true that there is a very loud gun-toting rightwing that used to be ignored and on the fringe (and not as heavily armed, either).

        I am definitely concerned about those people. We have the terrorist types as well, but I still think humanity is somewhat more evolved than in previous eras. It’s a tenous situation though and can easily be tipped to the negative.

      • aussie says:

        The ignorant have often been proud of their situation. Only without internet they didn’t have the ability to spread it everywhere.
        Jealousy has a lot to do with it. I’ve heard a woman called “you educated bitch” as an insult.

  30. crazy1946 says:

    I thought it would be difficult to find a PD more inept than that of the Sanford, Florida PD. These alleged officers of the law, took the necessary samples for the rape kit, arrested the accused individual 12 days later, released him two days later (after collecting DNA samples), then waited five more days to send in the rape kit for testing? This kind of police work is similar to what caused the non conviction in the OJ Simpson case… The use of local non judicial dispensed justice has always been there, just has not made it into the headlines as it has in this case, one could have cause to ask, why and who had a agenda to bring the use of vigilante justice into the lime light now and for what reason? I was not implying that I support the use of local (vigilante) issued justice, because I don’t think as a nation we have regressed back to the point that it should be condoned, promoted or even not prosecuted as the criminal offense that it is…

    After thinking back over many of the events of the last several years that reek so strongly of a former time and period of history in our nation, I have to question if the GOP/TP has actually been successful in “taking back their country”, because it would seem in some ways they have returned us to about the year 1845 or so….

    • They are attempting to return us to the Dark Ages before the Renaissance and the Enlightenment.

      • Tzar says:

        I call it the “thirdworldization” of the US (this is no slight on the culture or beauty of the “third world” just a contextually sound use of the concept from the first world perspective”)

        1. School closings

        2. Library closings

        3. Public park closings (preceded by reduction or removal of maintenance)

        4. Reduction of public services (towns where street lights were turned off)

        5. The resurgence of Debtors Prison

        6. No punishment or slaps on the wrist for bankers caught pilfering the public trust and largess
        -I hope I need not provide examples of this.

        7. Legal an social policies encouraging absolutism and social coarseness.
        -Gunman wounds three on ATA bus in Kansas City
        Related Excerpt

        ATA spokeswoman Cindy Baker said ATA officials were gathering ideas and studying best practices for the industry to try to reduce violence on their buses.

        “Everything’s on the table with regard to safety,” Baker said. “This is not going to get solved overnight. This is a reflection of what’s happening in society. People feel very comfortable solving disputes with a gun, and it’s going to spill over into transit.”

        Pat Clarke, a community liaison for Police Chief Darryl Forté, said the shooting was discouraging.

        “You can’t even ride the bus in peace,” he said. “Now you’re going to have people scared to catch the bus.”

        7b. New law allows guns in bars, parks, school parking lots

        Aug 05, 2013

        Starting Oct. 1, concealed carry permit holders will be allowed to carry guns to bars, public parks, school parking lots and more as a result of legislative changes in the concealed carry law.

        Last week, Gov. Pat McCrory signed House Bill 937 expanding on where concealed handguns are allowed, which also includes parades, public recreation areas and playgrounds.

        The new law will allow legal permit holders to carry their concealed weapon into restaurants and bars that sell alcohol as long as they don’t consume alcohol or illegal controlled substances. However, the bill allows those property owners to forbid firearms on the premises by posting signs.

        Becky Robinson, owner of the Water’n Hole in Waynesville, says she doesn’t believe allowing people to bring guns into bars is a good idea.

        ya think becky? 😆

        The list goes on an on

        • Tzar says:

          -here is the link to that last story

          8. The destruction of labor unions

          9. The reduction of funds for maintaining modern world infrastructure like roads and bridges (plenty of money to buy weapons of mass destructions though)

          • Two sides to a story says:

            There are definitely a lot of things that the elite and governments are doing to create instability for the rest of us – divide and conquer tactics. That’s why it’s a shame there’s so much division between political ideologies, but it’s hard to find common ground with people of certain ilk, like the Fogen family and their supporters.

          • Tzar says:

            I don’t want to blame this on “The Elite”, they are not worthy of this moniker; nor does this fall under the auspices of blundering or tyrannical governance, that is too kind; this is the runaway effect of a cabal running a complex game of thievery (the proverbial tangled web woven in the practice of deceit). the social war is just a distraction…albeit a fabulous one

            The Scam Wall Street Learned From the Mafia
            How America’s biggest banks took part in a nationwide bid-rigging conspiracy – until they were caught on tape

          • Fascinating and disturbing article.

            Thanks for the link.

            I always love reading Matt Taibi’s articles.

          • Tzar says:

            Yup, I am a huge fan of his as well
            serious cojones on that guy
            he is an honest to goodness journalist

        • lurker says:

          Third-worldization is an interesting term, but I have only ever heard it before from the right–claiming that this is the aim of the Obama administration. Like many of the right’s charges, it makes little sense. However, like many of the right’s charges, it is revealing when viewed as projection–as your comment points out.

      • aussie says:

        Enlightenment? that’s bleaching your skin white, like Michael Jackson did, isn’t it ?


        • Jasmine says:

          uh he did have vitiligo which is pretty devastating if you are brown skinned or darker. Have you ever seen someone with it? If so then you know that it isn’t a laughing matter. I have seen it and unless you have the money to cover it up or bleach yourself it is something that cannot be hidden and it is not pretty at all.

          • Soulcatcher says:

            @Jasmine, my daughter has it and she is white. When she was young she was on a swim team, so she spent alot of time in the sun, and when she tanned, that’s when you could really tell. When she turned 12 or 13, it started to really bother her, so I took her to the doctor. He read up on it and gave her something, don’t recall what it was, but I had to put it on the spots and take her out in the sun for 1 minute, anymore and it would burn her skin. I guess I should say was suppose to, we were both to scared to try. She learned to stay out of the sun and cover up as much as possible and it didn’t show as much. I do remember it cost $120.00 dollars for a small tube, and insurance did not cover it as it was cosmetic. That was about 18 years ago. The doctor also sais he would refer her to a pchycologist if it bothered her too much.

          • Girlp says:

            His autopsy say’s he had vitiligo, there are pictures that prove it. What his dermatilogist said is that it was so extensive they used a combination of skin bleach, I believe some medication and makeup to even him out, the majority of his skin contianed no melanin so lightening was the way they felt they had to go.

          • Jasmine says:

            Soulcatcher that sounds weird to have her in the sun for a minute. I cannot imagine that. My skin is very sensitive and it is hard to deal with. I hope she has learned how to deal with it.

  31. Deborah Moore says:

    Good Morning and thanks for the post, Fred.
    I have to say, Well, Yes. People want justice, especially so when a child is raped or murdered. So, if/when the justice system fails, there is going to be public outcry and there will be vigilantes.
    I’m heading out to meet my sister who is a fourth grade teacher to help her with getting her classroom ready. I’m organizing the Book Shelf, among other things.
    I may have a change to discuss this issue with her. She’s a wonderfully bright and thoughtful person. She’s teaching elementary school after taking early retirement from a management position at the local nbc news station and has my utmost respect.
    I’ll go help her and then I’ll check in here.
    We had a most interesting conversation started at the previous post.
    I hope everyone has a peaceful and productive day.
    With Hugs,
    From Deb

  32. crazy1946 says:

    good morning world

    • cielo62 says:

      Buenos dias! yes, i DO see vigilante justice will start to increase, if it hasn’t already. I, too, would have beaten the living shit out of that scum ESPECIALLY when the police refuse to do so. There is a fine line between being a vigilante and being a defender of justice.

      • cielo62 says:

        Um… ley me be clear. I expect the cops to ARREST the rapist. Otherwise, I would feel justified in beating the perpetrator.

      • crazy1946 says:

        While it is very possible that the facts as presented thus far in this case are accurate, how many other cases have we seen in the past where the facts that we assumed to be correct were not? I’m not trying to defend this scum bag so much as I am saying we have a system of justice set up to seek and render justice, that despite the fact it some times (perhaps too often) fails, it is still what we as an allegedly civilized nation must adhere to if we are to survive… While it may sound good to many that vigilante justice should prevail, here, we are on a slippery slope leading to total collapse of our entire system should that happen. Justice in the courts yes, justice in the streets no….

        • cielo62 says:

          crazy~ I totally agree with you. BUT the scenario becomes what IF the justice in the courts no longer is working except for the privileged? Or worse yet, the system destroys the poor and minority while allowing the wealthy to sneak away with doing crimes? Every person and every society has a breaking point. The French Revolution didn’t happen in a vacuum. The poverty was dire, the punishments severe and there was no hope for survival let alone justice. This against the backdrop of royalty throwing away food, killing whomever they pleased and having NO law but their money and personal power. I say that we as an American Society might NOT be as desperate as the french were at that time, I DO say we have a breaking point, and it’s starting to be reached in certain places. Detroit now, Florida next, and many other economically devastated areas. These conditions not only breed vigilantes but also extremist groups, like the neo nazis or christian   militia groups. Signs of societal stress are being seen, and will increase.


          • crazy1946 says:

            cielo62, You make a valid point about a point being reached where the people will be forced to take matters into their own hands. Yet, I must ask, who gets to decide when we have reached that point? Who gets to decide when our country ceases to exist as a Democratic Republic? Is it too late to stop the downward spiral that is being predicted? Do we have enough resolve as a unified body of people to prevent the ultimate destruction that will come as a result of the collapse? All these question need to be answered by each of us, whether in written word, verbally or silently in our own minds, because once the fall has begun there will be no turning back of the clock of destruction. Some people on other blogs that I read have called for a scene similar to what we have seen take place in Egypt and other places, where the very government is taken over by the people, well it must be questioned as to how well that has turned out thus far? I think the solution will be found better by working from within the existing system and making the changes necessary to correct the problems without killing the host.. Of course that is just my simple opinion for what it is worth…

          • cielo62 says:

            crazy~ Our discussion has been the debate for as long as people have lived in groups. It was simpler when all one had to do was take out a chieftain and his immediate family. I’m not saying that I personally am ready to take up arms and fuel an insurgency. As an observer, I can SEE that breaking points are being reached as a normal function of a dysfunctional system. There will be a flashpoint. Do you think that Stonewall was PLANNED?? It appears that gays were just fed up ENOUGH that when one person (some historians say he wasn’t even gay, just a bystander who saw what was happening and threw the first rock saying “Why do you let them treat you like this?”) The Stonewall Riots began and the Gay Pride Movement was born. It had reached a boiling point. All it took was ONE LEADER. As injustices multiply, people will start reaching breaking points in groups. Florida and Detroit are two such places just ready to explode. At some point, it doens’t matter what we discuss. It will happen because NOBODY has the balls to wrest control from the powers that be and reinstate justice.


          • lurker says:

            One of the things that struck me is that both the perpetrator and the victim
            appear to be vulnerable, throw-away people–low on the consideration list for justice in our country. Both are entitled to due process.

        • Troubling situation when a 15-year-old girl with Downs Syndrome accuses the mentally ill neighborhood weirdo of rape and there is no independent evidence that corroborates her accusation.

          If the police had expeditiously delivered the rape kit swabs to the crime lab and a swab from the suspect and communicated better with the girl’s family, the beating probably would not have happened.

          • crazy1946 says:

            Professor, As I said earlier, this PD is giving the Sanford PD a run for the honor of being the most inept out there… What is sad is if the story is indeed true (and I suspect it probably is) if he is represented with a good attorney he will probably be allowed to walk, only to repeat the crime! I wonder if the people that did this investigation were trained by the same people that trained the OJ investigators….

          • aussie says:

            No of course not, as the guy would probably be in jail.

            Nothing to say someone with Downs doesn’t know what’s going on or doesn’t tell the truth. Lot to say a mentally ill weirdo may choose a Downs Syndrome girl as the other won’t talk to him.

            Of course the police probably figured, no hurry to investigate, it’s only “special nobodies”.

          • Malisha says:

            Crazy, I continue to think Sanford PD was not inept but corrupt.

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