Slavery and environmental destruction are capitalism’s fatal flaws

Saturday, August 10, 2013

Good afternoon to all of our friends:

Greed or the search for ever higher profits is the engine that drives free market capitalism.

Labor unions and government regulation of corporations are widely regarded by Republicans and Democrats as unacceptable restrictions to free market capitalism. Incredibly, they believe the free market will regulate itself via the so-called “invisible hand” of greed.

This bizarre idea is the foundation of neoliberal economics and you can read all about it in Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith.

Greed is God in the United States today and that is why we have seen so many corporations relocate and/or outsource millions of jobs to foreign countries where labor and taxes are cheap and there are no environmental regulations. The result: our economy is in ruins and nothing is being done to fix it.

The invisible hand of greed cannot regulate a free market since it neither restricts the exploitation of the environment to seize natural resources nor the enslavement of labor with which to produce products for sale with those resources.

I wrote yesterday about the mind boggling high rate of incarceration in this country despite low rates of violent crime to warn people that our criminal justice system is being used to enslave our brothers and sisters so that others might profit from their free labor.

Today’s article completes the larger picture.

Capitalism cannot regulate itself. Therefore, the government must regulate capitalism. Should it fail to do so, slavery and unlimited environmental destruction will necessarily result.

If there be a Satan, his name is Greed.


Please keep those donations coming. Although our situation is not as desperate, we are not out of the woods yet.

87 Responses to Slavery and environmental destruction are capitalism’s fatal flaws

  1. Frederick,

    I wholeheartedly agree with your assertion that environmental destruction is one of capitalism’s fatal flaws (which is why even most libertarians support a strong, well-funded federal EPA), but I have to draw the line there, and disagree with you that the exploitation of workers is equivalent to slavery. That’s just plain wrong and belittles the horrors of slavery. Slaves were forced to work or suffer horrible punishment at the hands of their masters where as an exploited worker is free to choose to leave and pursue another job, even if doing so is inconvenient.

    • I don’t agree. Slavery was quite popular with 18th and 19th century capitalists. Consider the Triangle Shirtwaist Co., fire in the early 20th century and the collapsed building recently in the garment district in Bangladesh.

  2. Endless Summer says:

    Barbershoptalker, if you are here this morning, here is an example of exactly what we were conversing about yesterday:

    Harry Reid made the statement yesterday that he hoped the GOP obstructionism was not based on racism directed at the President. RW heads exploded and there are numerous demands for apologies for his statement. This, despite the FACT that most of the Tea Party members of congress are birthers (including, sadly, the representative from my district) who don’t recognize the legitimacy of the Obama presidency. My representative publicly calls the President a Kenyan Muslim whom we must get rid of.

    To wit, the right starts screaming “how dare he play the race card” while we watch them act like the racists we know they are. The disrespect of the President is unprecedented, showing even from members of the Supreme Court. SMH.

  3. Two sides to a story says:

    Also, OM repeatedly made statements during the course of the Fogen case about not accepting donations from racists and how he and the case keeps their distance from racists – here’s a friendly photo of OM and Francis Taaffe on FB –

  4. Two sides to a story says:

    Excuse this if someone posted before – more (probably futile motions) made in Seminole County in Fogen case

    • crazy1946 says:

      The Amicus Curiae Brief that was filed on 7/23 was mentioned and someone noted that it would automatically be dismissed because the case had decided by the jury. The motions that were filed on 8/08 have not been brought out as best as I can recall. I wonder if they also were filed by the out of state resident that filed the Amicus Curiae Brief? I suspect they are being filed in an effort to get publicity for the individual filing them and will not accomplish much more than that, but we can always hope… Maybe a copy of the motions will be available tomorrow or the next day, that should shed a little light on what the consist of…

  5. acemayo says:

    Here’s comment’s about Trayvon Martin that is the norn
    Whenever new news story is posted
    Of course its Obama’s fault
    List all the so called bad attributes of Trayon Martin
    As a reason why its his fault
    Let make George Zimmerman a national Hero
    Got away with started modern day lynching,0,4363430.story
    Report: Trayvon Martin ‘thug’ comment gets Volusia County officer fired
    A Volusia County safety officer was fired Friday after he was accused of posting racially insensitive comments on Facebook following the George Zimmerman trial, the
    Here’s comment about Trayvon Martin that is the norn
    Ricky T at 6:55 AM August 11, 2013
    #1. This is NOT the correct up to date picture of T.M.
    #2. T.M was a THUG!
    #3. The results of the trail were fair according to the laws we all live by.
    #4. Being fireed for use of the first Amendment Rights is ILLEGAL!!!!
    Creepy Cracka at 6:45 PM August 10, 2013
    Lets look at the Saints attributes and see how this officer could have possibly arrived at the term thug–
    Now, What’s the word that would describe someone with those “quality” attributes…
    Wait for it——–> A THUG!
    antarctictoothfish at 6:50 AM August 11, 2013
    George Zimmerman, the Innocent, Hero of the Highway, His Eminence SYG.
    Thugvon Martin should have gone to the place he was staying at, got out of the rain, he should not have attacked Zimmerman and if he did these things, Thugvon would have been back robbing houses in Miami today.
    BikerIssues at 3:54 AM August 11, 2013
    All thugs should be removed from our planet.
    Trayvon was a POS hug and I would have done the same thing.
    slipperysoap at 7:57 PM August 10, 2013
    Feeling bad for the Cop, I hope he does file a lawsuit and gets his job back. He posted his comment and gets fired for it.
    So much for freedom of speech in this country. I would love to say what I really feel but the .gov is watching and reading everything.
    Seems like society today is shoving down our throats the whole the black thing, trying to make us feel guilty for slavery.
    We should seperate the races!
    Removed by the site staff at 9:21 PM August 10, 2013
    Anyone want to bet he gets his job back with back pay and a big payout for a civil rights violation. I guess you can’t speak the truth anymore if the truth offends a minority. Just INSANE
    AmericanDream at 8:50 PM August 10, 2013
    Remember when this used to be a free country before obama got elected?
    Sarcasm Man at 9:15 PM August 10, 2013
    Of course its Obama’s fault, eveyone knows he is the Police Chief of Volusia County, and apparently in charge of every agency, company, council, city and department in the entire country.
    I was under the impression that each city, county and state had its own elected officials, but somehow the Teabaggers are starting to believe otherwise.
    He is apparently also responsible for every federal program since Lincoln was president, and regardless of if it was passed and implemented during the Reagan, Bush, Carter or Clinton administration.
    Isn’t being a right wing loon great? Just make up the facts as you go and rant at your cat and empty park benches as you walk around town with your crisp new tinfoil hat…..
    Double Standard by Police at Work at 8:19 AM August 11, 2013
    HEHE HE, Todd Snipes is a sissy.
    Boy the Fair Labor Standards Act § should was applied the right way here.
    Maybe all you RIGHT-WING TRAITORS in the Republican Confederate Party should trying going to college before practicing law.
    See retard’s Fair Labor Standards Act § has special provisions for OFF-DUTY PUBLIC SERVANTS.
    Race Discrimination by Fair Labor Standards Act § has special provisions for OFF-DUTY PUBLIC SERVANTS.
    MAYBE try going to college instead of practicing law on a 8th grade education! Nothing like the Baby Boomer Generation to pretend like they even went to college in the first place. LOL! Retards.

    • crazy1946 says:

      acemayo, I read those comments and often find they are often so far out of reality that it causes one to question if they are talking about the same article that I have just read. It would seem that a few of the ones you exhibited in your post did not. They refer to the 1st amendment, never realizing that these comments were not covered by that right. They refer to comments made while off work when the article mentioned (as did his termination letter) they were in fact made during his normal work hours and some were to his fellow employees. Too bad that these folks would seize any opportunity to blame someone other than the person that was a fault.
      Now to the question that bears asking, do you think that if the POTUS had not made the statement ” if he had a son he would be like Trayvon”, the end results in this case would have been different? Did he inadvertently turn this from a murder investigation into a political contest? Did his comments cause justice to be subverted, by his political opponents? While I have no doubt his comments were sincere, did he misjudge the degree of hatred that was prevalent not only in the community but nation wide that would be unleashed against not only against him but the victim of a horrible act of a low life killer?

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I don’t think Obama should remain quiet because of his racist detractors. He probably does far too much biting his tongue already.

        • crazy1946 says:

          I did not suggest that he not offer his opinion. The question however still remains, did his remarks open the door to political animosity that caused justice to be subverted by his political opponents? As an elected leader of this nation does he hold a greater responsibility for the results of his words than the average citizen? Simply put, while he was within his rights to make the comment, did the making of that comment create an atmosphere that allowed a miscarriage of justice to take place? Now before anyone misunderstand my words, I am not blaming the POTUS for the problem, only wondering out loud why we as a nation have reached the point that it would seem as if the leader of our nation is to be subjected to such a high degree of political racism that it impacts even what is supposed to be a blind and fair system of justice. Please note, I said supposed to be, not that it is a fair system….

          • bettykath says:

            “we as a nation have reached the point that it would seem as if the leader of our nation is to be subjected to such a high degree of political racism that it impacts even what is supposed to be a blind and fair system of justice.”


    • aussie says:


      thanks for saving us the trouble of checking out these nutcases. But please be very careful. Don’t spend too much time there or you’ll go mad. 😉

      • acemayo says:

        I will not go mad
        Sometime I wonder
        Being a black man
        At an Stop light crossing the street
        Walking by cars with white folks
        And them locking their doors
        Its noon time, I am downtown
        If I walk into a room whites will
        Start clearing their throats
        If I listen to the five o’clock news
        It just seem to report crime
        In the black area
        We have John TV they
        Started in a black area
        To help cut down prostitution
        Thinking only black faces will appear
        wrong mostly whites appear

    • Tzar says:

      they seem to be really enjoying this
      they really need this case more than we do almost

      • crazy1946 says:

        Tzar, I think you have just made a point that is quite valid. It would seem like this case has allowed the racist underbelly of this nation to finally come out of the closet and into the light of day… That comes at great risk to them, because as we now know who they are it will be impossible for them to scurry back into the safety of that closet… poor little racist thugs, I almost feel sorry for them much as I feel sorry for any other cockroach!

  6. aussie says:

    We always “destroyed” the environment.

    Trees were cut, for housing, boat-building, fires for warmth and cooking, slash&burn land clearing to plant crops. Hillsides were scraped bare and ended up as landslides.

    Waterways were polluted with leather tanning processes; streams were used both as a drinking water source and as a sewer.

    Animals were hunted and trapped, for their meat and fur.

    Only in the olden times there were very few people and a very big environment. There were not enough people to do levels of damage that couldn’t recover, and they had to do the damage manually, which is slow and heavy work.

    We’ve just become a lot more efficient at it, that’s all.

  7. colin black says:

    Is this a good time to share the black knight?

    • Deborah Moore says:

      Thank you, Colin.
      I’ve got some new (old) lines to use….
      What are you going to do? Bleed all over me?
      (I hope you are having a good Saturday Evening.)

    • Trained Observer says:

      Appears Daytona’s Volusia is more enlightened than Sanford’s Seminole County ….

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I wish more employers would follow suit – I don’t advocate firing people, but there should be some sanction – perhaps requiring a sensitivity program.

  8. crazy1946 says:

    colin black, Your theory is correct to a large degree, just one small problem that even China has not anticipated. When the financial assets of the various nations of the world collapse China is left holding the bag with worthless script! It does not matter what the interest rate is, if you repay a loan of $100 that was used to purchase an item of equal value with money that has devalued to a much lower value it has the effect of driving the value of your assets equal to the loss that you suffered…. What will happen if the monetary systems collapse they will take China down with them…. Crash and burn world wide…. People will kill for a gallon of water, or a loaf of bread, hide you dogs and cats they will be a much sought after commodity!!! Perhaps the end of this civilized world will usher I a kinder and more gentle society, no, that is wishful thinking the human animal will never truly live in total harmony! The nature of mankind is greed, the evil of all roots….. (and I meant it the way I typed it…)

  9. colin black says:

    China destroyed western money markets by use greed to entrap an manipulate the west an Ice land any anyone whom wanted free money.

    Wich was basicly everyone involved in finaces banks insurances company stocks an shares market city wide boys.

    China had latterly trilllions of dollars surpluss an offered loans to all comers in the west at one percent intrest.

    An the intrest in there generous terms was taken up by all as those whom didn’t partake would lose out on the deal of a life time.

    Borrow fifty million here an 500 million there couple of billion one percent with 20 years tp pay back.

    Cannnot fail all we have to do is re loan the money at 12 percent an we will quadruple our already vast wealth.

    Over night people whom would never have got offered even one credit card were pre approved for as many as they wanted.
    Morgatges nae bother want a hundred grand loan sign here..

    Thing is ther was a reason why thease people were credit risks an just because the white collar low risk loans markets were saturated.

    Lowering the bar an loaning money to anyone whom applied even cold calling an engourageing people to spend spend spend an to do so on credit was a disaster waiting to happen.

    An it did so not only did China bring down the West /Americvas economy they gained in becoming even more of a financial power house whilst the rest of the devolped world is hugely in Debt to them.

    All the industrys that collapsed ship yards moter factorys textiles just meant even more business was heading ther way as there economy an industry is thriveing on all fronts

    An also the small print is about to kick in .

    The one percent intrest was valid for twent years then any unpaid loans due after two decades

    Intrest rate swt to jump to default rate of 20 percent.

    But of course all these companys an greedy fucks tht took the bait never thought it would come to that.

    Geuse what?

    Its come to that.

    No wonder China has hit the top of the consummers market there the only country practicaly on the planet that aint broke.

    Gotta love them inscrutable

    ps don’t tell anyone what they did…..

    • colin black says:

      Oh except India there also booming there economy is set to take over that of the UK in 5 years.

      Thanks to vast labour resource an vast natural resouses and the out souseing of practicy three thirds of all call centres enqiry lines ect to India they are doing very well

      Of course Indians rich Indians have always had vast weath .

      But the disparity between them an the poor was enourmous.

  10. crazy1946 says:

    Does the stifling, dismissal, or removal of dissenting opinions have a positive or negative in a discussion? Is it normal for a human to seek to block opinions that do not align with their perception of what a problem is or the solution to a problem? Can problems be resolved without a degree of dissention being considered? Because blogs and discussion sites are not actually public places (in many cases) and are owned and operated by individuals who set the rules and laws within their domain, should they be free to prevent dissention with in and amongst the membership of those sites? Does dissention the product of freedom or is it actually the opposite? Is there a proper way to express disagreement in general or is it up to the individual to determine the proper and acceptable method of doing so? If on a blog or internet site, what would be the proper way to disagree with the host (owner/manager) of the site? Could dissent be considered in some instances to be caused/created by the mixing of cultures and the inherent problems with basic communication techniques not shared between the parties holding the discussion? Is finding common ground upon which to agree often used as a means of resolving problems? Is it a normal human response to look for hidden meanings behind a series of questions?

    • Deborah Moore says:

      To your third from last question, yes, I think that different and varying mind cultures can affect what sometimes appears as dissent.
      Second to last sentence: I’m fairly certain that finding common ground helps us resolve problems.
      Last question: I’m not touching that one. 🙂

      • aussie says:

        Finding common ground helps us stop arguing the point. It may or may not be the solution to any actual problem.

        • crazy1946 says:

          aussie, good point, but could it actually lead away from arguing the point and to discussing the point of disagreement? Arguing points very seldom leads to a viable solution to any problem…

      • crazy1946 says:

        Can opposing cultures ever truly find common ground and or trust? The last question is one we deal with on a daily basis, it involves the issue of trust which most people fail to allow to happen…..

    • bettykath says:

      Great questions, crazy1046.

      My experience in resolving disputes is to first find common ground. Most often, the common ground is much larger than the point/s in dispute. Finding common ground usually ends up as a trust building exercise as people find that they actually have many points of agreement. It’s hard to take a hard line against those with whom you are in dispute once you start hearing them agree with you on the important points.

      The next step is to find out the specific points of disagreement and to work on finding resolutions that both (or more) sides can live with. It may be that such a resolution isn’t anyone’s first choice, but is one everyone can live with. Even if an agreeable resolution isn’t found, the respectful exchange with everyone trying to reach agreement, usually ends with an agreement to disagee without malice. Some disputes actually become very unimportant. Their initial importance was exaggerated as negotiating chips, but once everyone starts working in the same direction on the most important points, these disputes become negligible and get dropped.

      If common ground isn’t established early on, the points of contention get exaggerated and people stop hearing each other. Suspicions grow creating hidden agendas and conspiracy theories. All camps begin hearing only those with whom they already agree with the frequent result of molehill disagreements becoming mountains of stone.

      On the most successful blogs, this one being a prime example, disagreements are not discouraged by the blog owner. However it sometimes happens that some become emotionally attached to one opinion or another and anyone who disagrees can be attacked. On a good day, the dissenter gets support from others who either agree with the dissenting opinion or who disagree with the dissenter being attacked. Another good rule of this blog is the discourse is to be civil. While the language can get a bit crude at times, it tends to be in the context of the rest of post. Name calling gets called out (usually). Some posters have been banned. I don’t know the rules used but I suspect that complete lack of civility is at the top of the list.


      • crazy1946 says:

        On most blogs, this one included, while it is not openly done there is stifling of dissention. More often than not, it is by simply ignoring the questions or comments posted. I suppose that the old adage, out of sight, out of mind applies. I actually think that most of us are guilty of this to some degree. We might read a comment and rather than causing conflict, avoid answering as if we think just because we fail to respond the problem will simply go away. Conflict is sometimes healthy and leads to solutions but sometimes the problem requires more work than we wish to give in an effort to compromise. If we ignore a problem long enough will it go away? It has been my experience the longer I postpone seeking a solution to a problem the more difficult it becomes to resolve in a matter that is acceptable to me or the other party… Just a few words that in the scope of life mean very little but in the long run….

        Try to not find too much fault in the spelling and sentence structure in this post, I can’t find my glasses (and my four legged child refuses to help me find them…) and I am forced to write it using brail, good thing I touch type….

        • Deborah Moore says:

          I’ll tell you the reason I remarked that I didn’t want to address the issue of it being a human response to reading into a series of responses. I think we’d have to know each in a more personal way than I have had time to for me to start looking for hidden meanings in others comments.
          I don’t want to judge anyone here. I don’t walk in anyone else’s shoes and I don’t know what personal experiences influence someone else’s comments.
          But, I’m not afraid to communicate and try to understand other’s attitudes.

          • crazy1946 says:

            Deborah Moore, First let me apologize for not responding to your post last evening. In my haste to finish with the days tasks, I totally overlooked it. However this morning with glasses that have finally been located, I not only can see it, I can actually read it….
            I like your answer, but I do have a question for you about it. Do you ever read another persons post (here or on another blog) and ask yourself, “I wonder why they said that” or perhaps “I wonder what that question was asked for”. I would suggest that most of us have done so in the past and will continue to do so in the future.. Human nature has equipped mankind with the ability to reason, and with reasoning comes curiosity. Over the years it has occurred to me that when ever I fail to question the reasoning behind statements that are offered, that I have probably not taken the time to understand what has been presented. Maybe that is a unique fault that I am the sole owner and possessor of, but I suspect that is not the case. It could be asked if compromise can or could be reached without questioning the reasoning of the other party. I might suggest that a compromise reached in that way would not be compromise at all but instead the product of either force on the part of one party and or complacency on the part of one of the (or both) parties.. These rambling and jumbled series of words and poorly structured sentences will perhaps cause more questions than they have answered, it is difficult (at least to me) to fully explain some things that require a degree of emotion and body language to understand using a media that fails to easily convey either one…

          • Deborah Moore says:

            I’m glad you retrieved your glasses. I’m near-sighted so I can’t see anything without mine and shudder at the thought.
            I appreciate your thoughtful response, and if I ask myself Why you responded, I would answer that you are a person who cares about meaningful communication and a person who is sincere in a quest to understand human behavior.
            When I first began blogging on one particular site, I saw it as a wonderful opportunity to see how people get along while communicating without the verbals cues, the nonverbal prompts. It’s been an interesting journey and one that hasn’t always been enjoyable, but has always been a challenge to my brain and also to my heart. I have tried to stay true to myself, but have learned that I have little influence on changing anyone’s mind about anything. It’s very easy to agree with someone I seem to have an automatic affinity to and it’s challenging to peel back the layers of another’s predisposition that I disagree with.
            I should say here that since I have started commenting here that I can’t really say that I disagree vehemently with anyone here. I came here with an open heart and mind and try to see that everyone Must have a reason for saying what they do.
            I have learned that my Keep on the sunny side, is not my way of sluffing off the important issues, rather it keeps me in a better place to try to understand the sticky issues.
            Thank you, thank you.

        • bettykath says:

          I agree that there is some stifling of dissension here but I think it’s from some of the posters, not the owner of the blog. If there is something that you think is important, don’t let the nay-sayers get to you. Reword and repost, or just repeat. Most likely there is someone else who will agree with you or engage you in discussion. Hang in there.

          I tend to respond if I think I have something useful to offer. Many here answer questions when we think we know the answer or at least have an opinion. Not all my questions have elicited responses, although some have resulted in my being accused of being a troll.

          It seems your specific problem in this post is the lack of interaction on this blog to questions or opinions that disagree with …. disagree with what? or with whom? Are there specific examples? I don’t read your post as looking for a theoretical discussion, but that there is something specific behind it. Want to share? Or did I get it wrong?

          I sure can relate to the difficulties of not having glasses on. Without mine I’m trying to miss large moving objects. I don’t even attempt computer stuff until I put them on. Don’t worry about grammar or spelling. I spend a lot of time editing but frequently leave out a word (usually a negative so that I say exactly the opposite of my intention!) and frequently miss a wrong tense. Thank goodness for the red underline and right click. 🙂 And I’m not responsible for anything I post that I have been in too much of a hurry to edit. 😀

          • crazy1946 says:

            bettykath, Actually my questions were not related to a specific problem in relation to problems on this blog. They actually were more in an effort to inspire people to not be afraid to disagree with others opinions. So I would actually suggest that this was simply a theoretical discussion or at least an effort to create one…. I think that many times we each in our own way stifle dissent by not allowing ourselves to be put in a position to have to take a stand on issues. Perhaps this could be out of a desire not to hurt others feelings or maybe it could be that it is an issue that is not of enough importance in our own lives to address. Ok, enough heavy thinking for the night. I still have not found my glasses, I can read a newspaper at the other end of the room, but anything up close is simply a grey blur… I probably left them in the car when I was in there earlier this evening, they will still be there tomorrow morning… Have a wonderful evening..

          • bettykath says:

            Thanks for your clarification. Arms too short? Mine got too short a 2-3 decades ago. I’ll reread your earlier post tomorrow. Too tired now.

      • Deborah Moore says:

        You said,
        If common ground isn’t established early on, the points of contention get exaggerated and people stop hearing each other. Suspicions grow creating hidden agendas and conspiracy theories. All camps begin hearing only those with whom they already agree with the frequent result of molehill disagreements becoming mountains of stone.
        Kudos, gal. You said that very well, and I’m not surprised as I have a growing respect for what you have to say.
        And, I’ve enjoyed reading your comments.
        Rat On, as some say. 🙂

  11. a2nite says:

    America was created for and by evil, slavery & exploitation. Not surprised.

  12. RobertSF says:

    This bizarre idea is the foundation of neoliberal economics and you can read all about it in Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith.

    In all fairness to Adam Smith, he lived in an economy consisting mostly of pubtenders and shopkeepers, not global conglomerates. It was also a time when the Crown and the aristocracy were up to their elbows in meddling with the economy (to their profit, of course), so the laissez-faire that he advocated would be like calling today for economic freedom from the looting 1% that is turning us into a Third World. Neoliberals have twisted what Adam Smith said just like Bible thumpers twist what Jesus said.

    the idea that large corporate enterprises would become the most important form of business organization and that they would become multinational . . . would have been inconceivable to Adam Smith. The one example of such internationally oriented enterprises in Smith’s day were the various trading companies set up by European nations and granted a monopoly of trade . . . Here he is unsparing in his condemnation both of the value of such companies to the home country and of the behavior of such companies in the regions they control.
    Another Distortion of Adam Smith: The Case of the “Invisible Hand”

    Adam Smith was no friend of the rich.

    “No society can surely be flourishing and happy of which by far the greater part of the numbers are poor and miserable.” Wealth of Nations, Book I, Chapter VIII.

    “It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.” Wealth of Nations, Book V, Chapter II.

    Nor a friend of ruthless employers.

    “Our merchants and masters complain much of the bad effects of high wages in raising the price and lessening the sale of goods. They say nothing concerning the bad effects of high profits. They are silent with regard to the pernicious effects of their own gains. They complain only of those of other people.” Wealth of Nations, Book I, Chapter IX

    • Xena says:

      Those finds always fascinate me. They also make me wonder why those civilizations ceased.

      • crazy1946 says:

        Many centuries from now, when the natives sit around the campfire discussing what they have found that day, they will probably ask the same question about the ruins of this country that they have discovered……

      • colin black says:

        Through out history major civilisations rise an fall the reasons are many .

        As can disease especialy in what we call ancient times wich geologically are not Ancient but very recent.
        Entire Citys abandobed by aztect an earlier cultures in an around the andies .

        Citys built with huge monolithic stones so heavy even our best cranes to day would have trouble lifting them.

        Not only that thease 60 ton rocks are placed in such presion that not even a cigarete paper could be slid between them.

        Summarian civilisation seemed to ceace rapidly as did countless other.

        Natural disasters earth quakes or volcanic eruptions can also stop aq society in its tracks.

        On a very small scale Vesuvius wiped out a great Roman city of culture commerce in Pompey in 24 hours.

        Not the eruption but the gas an ash cloud that reined down .

        Today Yellowstone sits atop a huge chamber of magma perhaps fifty to seventy miles below the crust depending on where the geo phiz is measured from.

        Iys possab.y the largest deposit of magma within an upper chamber on the planet.

        An a couple of billions years ago before the earth was a coll or the crust as thick as today.

        Thease massive magma chambers were the norm an the erupptions were truly ausome .

        Mount Hellana time fibe thopusand an the lava out put on theas super massive erupptions is beyond copprehesion

        Trillions of tons of cubic metre of lave magma beind poured onto the upper mantle .

        Enough to cover not just a few squre miles but more than enough to cover thousands of miles in every direction with molten rock.

        An if such a super eruption on that sort of level were to happen today tomorrow or next week.

        It would not only bring down American civilisation but the the entire planet would be faceing the equivalent of nuclear winters for decades as the ash cloud alone would envelop the entire planent an most of us will be doomed. Some preppers an such types

        Government vip ect will have bunkers an such but most of us can kiss our butts sianarra..

        Yellowstone is covered with moniters an gps satilites mesureing the elevation an movement of the region.

        An its active for the last fifty years an with to days tech can measure to the millimetre.

        An it rises up to four feet an then relaxes back downnnnn an then repeats.

        May stay stable for a couple of years but then starts elesticating again.

        The last ten years its been its most active since readings an recordiings began some hundred years ago by yellowstopnes national geographic society.

        Streching by as much as 16 feet in some regions. An by stretching elasticating I mean the lands riseing .

        Action an reaction its riseing due to activity in the massive magma chamber below.

    • Tzar says:

      humble startups…

    • ay2z says:

      Wow, thanks! So much was destroyed by the conquering Spanish, wonder if the importance of this will reveal new insights into the world of the Maya?

      Will read and see.

  13. PYorck says:

    Visiting again after some absence it seems that I am no longer allowed to comment.

    • PYorck says:

      Ok, I take that back. In this thread I am.

      • You’ve always been welcome to comment on any thread.

        • PYorck says:

          Thanks. I didn’t suspect anything personal, but when I tried to comment on the earlier post, my comment was rejected several times. First I had a pretty lengthy quote in the comment and thought that was too much. When that didn’t make a difference I suspected that the problem was with a link that I had posted before long ago. But then I couldn’t even post a simple text-only comment. No idea what went wrong there.

          • Let me know if you experience any more difficulty.

          • colin black says:

            I Type by accident onto my email add all the time an it sends my posts into mod

            As obviously it doesn’t recognise my email addy with a sentence about coprate whore added.

            then I realised my mistake an rremove the extra words an then I can post again

            Just a misplaced full stops enough.

            but im crap wi pc

  14. Deborah Moore says:

    Is this a good or a bad time to share The Annoying Peasant?

  15. Deborah Moore says:

    Anyone who thinks the market will regulate itself is smoking some bad stuff.
    I try to stay off the capitalistic radar by shopping at the thrift store, making my purchases at mom and pop type stores and grow what I can in my yard.
    I’m sure I don’t make a dent in the armor of corporate pigs, but I do what I can, which really isn’t much.

    • colin black says:

      Welll Im smokeing some good stuff an I don’t give a flyin g duck im self an minein own sustainable .

      If all wenr pear shaped to morrow despite my health wich isn’t great Id make sure we would be alright.

      Im not materialistic never have been but Im also not in debt nor have I ever been

      Nor will I do so of couese ive borrowed cash from frends in times of want

      But my mind never rests until debt is repaid.

      The total opposite Iattatude Ive found from certain sorts Ive lent money to in the past.

      There all for borrowing but seem to forget about the repaying part.

      My rule is if I lend some one money they ask for short term an thease are not people I consider friends

      My six true friends I would give the shirt of my back an vicea verca

      But aquintances say If after a month Ive seen then a few times an never mentioned the loan

      An nor do they forinstance ..Hey Il give you half the money on tueday an the rest in a fortnight…

      I f no response is given like that in fact no refrance at all.

      I know for a fact the will never raise the subject an If I have to remind some aquintance Ive gfraceiously lent money to after sevral weeks .

      I no the excuses will low the pained expressions an mock indignacy shortly after an then the bad mouthing an almost conteptuas attitude that YOU are making such a bid fdeal an hassle over it blah blah

      An I know this person be they male or female will never repay a penny.

      An this is modis oprandi way of life for them.

      They don’t care they can flit from social circle to group to group/

      Pretend to befriend someone or share an intrest even help you out an make you think they may be friend potential.

      An then they pounce an thing is they have several groups os separate people all over the shop

      An isolate out the one s to scam that will they calculate cause the least social fall out

      They are called scamsers I call them leaches.

      Lifes to short to worry about money.

      I have real issues an problems to deal with an they don’t concern finances an politics.

      Though funny enough we are having an M P round for tea an a chat in a few weeks

      As is our next door neighbour a 94 year old WW2 Widow whom has more energy than me.?

  16. Tzar says:

    capitalism is sublimated cannibalism

    • crazy1946 says:

      Tzar, Perhaps, but with capitalism in action, they will find a profitable use for the bones left after the flesh has been processed for dinner….. So maybe we should call them capitalistic cannibals? What was that movie from long ago, Soylent Green, does it ring a bell in modern times?

      • Tzar says:

        I wish my statement was hyperbolic nonsense, but it took me a long time to com to this conclusion and I have found nothing in 15+ years of looking to dissuade me of this notion.

        • crazy1946 says:

          While perhaps my use of humor to make a point may appear crass and unworthy to your mindset, if you will think about it for just a moment is not my example a near perfect analogy, of the two life styles given? I realize as age has worked it miracle upon me my vocabulary has started to become less vibrant, however, my sense of humor has remained intact. That is probably the one thing that age has not stolen from me at this point… I have concluded that the one thing that I will be the greatest success at in my life time is growing old, not even I can mess that up…

    • colin black says:

      soylent green its people its people being consumed by coprate greed.
      Not only are the feeding of us they are consumeing the unborn .Generation not yet born are enumbered with debt in the form of future taxes .To pay for the greed an stupidity of there forebears long since passed.

      Not only do we sentence them to a debt unearned by them we also condem them to a future earth made toxic an polluted all In the insane drive fort present lluxury an profits for few.

      No thought nor case to what our great great great great crand children will face.

      I believe if the human species some how cimbs out of this self s with mopre contempt elf self Im alright jack fuck those yet to come mind set.

      An flourishes on a different path of sustainable living in balance with resourses available.

      Wich could be achieved this very day with the right people in charge of the planet.

      But say we as a species survive for another few hundred thousand years it will have to be without wars an petty poitics borders will disappear both n our minds an countrys an patriotism will be quint bygone customs.

      But future genertions of historians an scholars will look back on the late 19th an 20th 21 centures.

      As the most contemptable time in human history.

      Forget attilla the hun an your stalins hitlers an Spanish inquisition/
      Our prior an present generations will have the ire an disgust of the people yet to come

      An in my humble opinion they would be bang on the mark.

  17. bettykath says:

    We are moving to a feudal society where those few extremely wealthy will pay handsomely for the well-off to serve them. The rest of us will be treated as having no value except as the slave labor for whatever they want. It will be the well-off who will be the slave masters at the beck and call of the extremely wealthy. The police and military will be the enforcers. We are being fed propaganda to ready us for the ever increasing movement in that direction.

    • racerrodig says:

      Having been an employee and having a small self employed gig on the side from my late teens, this is why I have been solely self employed since 1988 . When I managed a place for someone else, and 2 different companies, and handled over 2 million in sales a year myself, there was 0 loyalty or benefits at all.

      Greed……it certainly makes them vile.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I started freelancing while working a regular job a dozen years ago and have been freelancing only for 3 years now. It’s a relief to have removed myself from the abuse. I have a new set of stressors, but at least these are solely my responsibility!

    • pat deadder says:

      bettykath says We are moving to a feudal society but i’m wondering who will buy the junk that the rich are having made elsewhere with slave labor.It.seems most of the jobs here now are service jobs.
      Won’t need houses built no one could buy one and on and on..They can’t have wars forever to keep paying haliburton and all.
      I wonder what I would do if I was rich. I know one thing,this would not be it.
      So will companies bring jobs back here hoping we’ll be grateful for any wage.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Yes, that militarized police force near you works for the corporate elite, basically.

  18. bettykath says:

    So true.

  19. Two sides to a story says:

    Interesting you should touch on this topic of greed today. It’s on my family’s mind right now. Just had a sibling whose job was axed in a really rude way by a really rude corporation who takes advantage of their employees. If he had been a union worker they wouldn’t have been able to touch him, but he was in low-level management and they get screwed over. So much for his many years of service – you may as well be a slave or a mule for the way you get treated by employers now. Record profits too!

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