Unfinished forensics in Trayvon Martin case

Friday, August 2, 2013

Good morning to all of our friends:

I write this morning regarding unfinished forensics with Trayvon’s case and to urge Benjamin Crump to consult with someone who is knowledgeable about forensics before he decides whether to sue George Zimmerman for wrongful death.

Piranha Mom’s comment at 12:09 am inspired me to write this post.

If a civil claim is filed against Zimmerman by Trayvon’s family, Professor Fred and all of us must put together the DEFINITIVE narrative, citing each movement with justification and evidence, and supply it to Trayvon’s family and attorneys.

We know what happened.

We have had the forensic evidence at our fingertips — and we know it all by heart. We were open in our analysis.

We DIDN’T expect we had to provide this to the prosecution.

But they were so full of hubris and the big award Bernie was to receive, and paid little attention to evidence. Bernie even thinks Trayvon took part in the battle, not that he was struggling to get away. If the prosecutor has no faith in the victim, or in the chief witness for the prosecution, what could we expect to get?

The verdict we got.

Won’t make THAT mistake again!

Yes, Piranha Mom is right and here are three glaring examples.

Amy Siewart, the crime lab firearms analyst who examined Trayvon’s sweatshirts, apparently never read the autopsy report or conferred with Dr. Bao regarding whether the bullet holes in the sweatshirts aligned with the entry wound in Trayvon’s chest. Evidently, no one at FDLE or any member of the prosecution team thought about that possibility either.

Yet, that was the first thought that occurred to me when I read that first document dump and LLMPapa was all over that issue too. I wrote about it and he made several videos about it. Both of us discussed the implications.

We even argued with the self-described crime scene expert from Jacksonville, Michael Knox, about the proper conclusions to draw from that evidence.

Massive and inexcusable failure of LE and the prosecutor’s office not to see and comprehend the significance of that evidence.

Massive and inexcusable failure by BDLR not to use the State’s DNA expert, Anthony Gorgone, to clear-up the confusion created by the defense regarding whether rain can wash away DNA and whether packaging Trayvon’s sweatshirt in a plastic biohazard bag would degrade all DNA present, such that it could not be detected with STR/PCR.

Siewart also should have been questioned regarding (1) the unusually strong kickback of a KelTec 9 semiautomatic handgun when fired with one hand, and (2) whether the distance between the two spires on the rear gunsight match the distance between the two pinholes on the tip of Zimmerman’s nose that bled so copiously.

I believe those distances match and Siewart could testify that the gun could have caused the injuries to Zimmerman’s nose, if he fired the fatal shot within a few feet of his face while holding the gun with one hand as Zimmerman described.


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528 Responses to Unfinished forensics in Trayvon Martin case

  1. ay2z says:

    Ice cream and West putting blame on the daughter. Didn’t he know what young people do with their phone photos these days? Sure he knew exactly what would happen, and she continued to do a ‘rah rah’ dad got the killer off, posts subsequent to trial.


  2. ay2z says:

    What we are left with.

    ( Call himThe ‘Untouchable’? Proven once again by the last media exposure the killer got? Going ‘nowhere in particular’ driving around with a gun, probably with a full clip and one ready to go.)

  3. crazy1946 says:

    Is racism always bad? Does racism have a purpose beyond hate? Do most people harbor racist thoughts with out realizing those thoughts are imbedded in their thoughts and words?
    Now, before you invoke Sharia Law and start to stone or behead me, go back and read the words again and actually ask yourself those question and be honest with yourself in your answers…..

    • cielo62 says:

      crazy~ by definition I believe racism is bad. BUT being AWARE of different races and cultures is a good thing.


      • crazy1946 says:

        cielo62, I agree with your statement that racism is bad. Being aware of different races and cultures is a good thing if done with good intent. What some people do not realize that the intent of most people with racial bias is to use that racist attitude as a means of control. Our government is extremely well versed at manipulation of the population thru not only financial reward and punishment, but overt racism as well. If you want to ensure that you keep control of the people under your command you make sure that they have an enemy to exert their hostility on, this diverts their attention to the real enemy of the state, the leaders of that state (government in general)! If you are my neighbor and I want to steal something from your garage, all I have to do is entice your other neighbor outside stir up a disagreement between the two of you, and while you are having at each other I can leisurely stroll into your garage and take what I want. That may sound silly, but think for a moment, is that not actually what our congress does to us on a daily basis? Racism can not and will not cease to exist until we as a people actually want/demand that all people are to be treated and accepted as equals regardless of skin tone…… Will that ever happen?

  4. MDH says:

    That song is about this speech given by Haile Selassie to the UN in 1963.


    • You all have thoughtful comments says:


      Until the philosophy which hold one race superior
      And another
      Is finally
      And permanently
      And abandoned –
      Everywhere is war –
      Me say war.

      That until there no longer
      First class and second class citizens of any nation
      Until the colour of a man’s skin
      Is of no more significance than the colour of his eyes –
      Me say war.

      That until the basic human rights
      Are equally guaranteed to all,
      Without regard to race –
      Dis a war.

      That until that day
      The dream of lasting peace,
      World citizenship
      Rule of international morality
      Will remain in but a fleeting illusion to be pursued,
      But never attained –
      Now everywhere is war – war.

  5. Romaine says:

    People are people all over the world, and when we as people learn to love, care, and live together as people; then and then only will we have peace amongst ourselves.

    Not because of wealth, religion, skin color, sexual preference, or EGO; and yes a lot of how we live is based on EGO.

    The I’m better than you syndrome, WHY? because I say so BS…

    Put together all the wars on any race, all the deaths of any culture because one culture believed its culture was, or is superior based on its race or religious beliefs.

    The I am right and you are wrong syndrome, the YOU will do as I say LAWS placed upon its citizens in every culture!!!
    BY WHO????

    WHAT CULTURE has faught the world over, simply because it has the most power and backing???

    WHOSE CULTURE has murdered, separated families, purposely divided nations based on the color of their skin, posioned the minds of continents for its own wealth and gain…(i.e. ROWANDA), committed more crimes against more nations than any other CULTURE in the world; without punishment or discipline????

    WHOSE CULTURE/ NATION has been the robber, pilferer, murderer, for centuries; with the claim of defending its neighbor, like the neighborhood watch GEORGE MICHAEL ZIOMMERMAN???



    As a People…..As a WORLD…As A Culture of HUMAN BEINGS intergrated with diversity one for the other….then and only then will we have world peace.

    THERE cannot be a war faught, if we as a people refuse to fight a war we don’t agree too…
    we can make a difference, we are the difference, our only fault is we continue to be divided…

    To the race baiters and haters, one day; you too will wake up and see how used and abused you seriously are…

    you too will understand that you have gained nothing, yet continue to fight for those who do not have your best interest at heart, only their continued success and monetary gain.

    you are used as a tool to keep the majority of the public blind, fighting amongst themselves and poor.


    • cielo62 says:

      Romaine~ YES! Ignorance of the masses will always be weapons of mass destruction. Education in justice and real tolerance MUST be a key ingredient in changing our world for a more just one.


  6. Romaine says:

    In all honesty I can’t even say for his own culture, due to the fact that Taffee is a mixed breed whether he realizes it or not; yet he too deems himself as a white man. Not Irish or the other cultures mixed in his blood line. What was your DADS HERITAGE Francis, was it Sicilian Italian, of a dark skin color. OWN it, Love IT, YOUR SORRY ASS IS NOT White….and seriously a term you and O’Mara like to use, what really constitutes a full bred white individual???

    In all honesty the terms used to distinguish any human being from another should be removed, from all government, state, and local forms. all that is needed is male or female!!!!

    • Linda Andersen says:

      Personal experience: When I lived in Italy, the Italians would say that they could not understand why the blacks and whites in American don’t get along.

      So I’d ask, “Why don’t the Northern Italians get along with the Southern Italians?”

      And they’d reply, “That’s different. They’re terrible people!”

    • ladystclaire says:

      @Romaine I agree with your comment about, the checking of boxes on forms that we may fill out for one reason or another in this country. for instance, I believe these questions concerning what ones race is when filling out forms that ask that question is done so in order to keep some people from getting a job or even preventing them from renting an apartment in some cases.

      I do not check those boxes and, like you said this should not be on an application in the first place.

  7. Romaine says:

    Frank is a racist to the core. His blatant disrespect towards his own race for having any understanding of another’s cultural struggles/interracial diversity, cohabitation amongst all people is apparent in his statements during this interview. His claim of the event of the death of Trayvon Martin on the night of 02/26/2012, of not being racial is revealed as a lie in this interview. His so called remorse for the loss of this child’s life is a lie. Taffee’s only purpose was to defend his right of being a privileged white male, whose neighborhood he saw as being infiltrated by unwanted “those people”, i.e. AA culture. He didn’t want them their and if killing them is the only way to get rid of them then so be it. He would and will continue to support that form of genocide.

    • ladystclaire says:

      Not only did the town drunk of Sanford Florida, not want AA living in their neighborhood. he had plenty of company in, Fogen and his spouse as well as Jenna, Jeremy and John Good. also, any stealing that was taking place in that complex, was committed by Taaffe, Fogen and maybe Oysterman as well as. why else did he always read from the same script when he placed his calls to the NEN and, they always contained the race of the person in question as being a “young black male.”

      This was nothing but a hate crime and, this fat bastard needs to be charged accordingly by the DOJ. it is so unfair that he killed a child and is now walking around free to go where ever he wants to.

      He even accused a sixteen year old AA kid, of stealing his bicycle and he harassed the kid and, that is when the kids father got involved. of course Fogen called NEN and they came out and it was determined that, the kid owned the bicycle. I doubt Fogen even had a bike. he also followed AA to their homes and, he even asked one owner, to show him some proof that he owned a home there. the one with the weakest mind, is always going to take on the role of a bully and, Fogen fit the bill for his fellow racist. as it turned out, Fogen was a squatter at RTL and, he even called LE when his land lord saw him out and, asked for the rent that he was behind in paying.

  8. Linda Andersen says:

    I also pity people whose life experience is so limited that they can’t see the blatant racism in this trial.

    • Linda Andersen says:

      I Can’t stand Frank Taaffe! Have never understood why HLN keeps paying him to be a talking head! Does his racist trash talk improve ratings?

    • Yorazigo says:

      This is one sick interview.

      It’s not the HLN clip, but an audio below. Full of white supremacist garbage. Calls Obama & Holder the “black government,” as if that’s all there is to US government – no Congress, no Judicial… Calls Sheherazade Ali “the extreme black supremacist.” Taffee spews his garbage about Trayvon, and mimics RZJr’s “if there’s a DOJ trial it’s all coming out about TM.”

      One interesting thing he said at the beginning was that GZ often had his gun on him when he called about other incidents at RTL or was neighborhood watching (I forget his exact words).

      Can’t sleep after subjecting myself to this!

      • Linda Andersen says:

        Join the club! This entire saga has been sick to the core. Your description of “neighborhood watching” gave me the creeps! Peeping Zimm?

  9. acemayo says:

    I did an web on this question
    how many whites people was kill by whites in 2011
    99% of the hits I got back was about black people

  10. Judy75201 says:

    So it was just coincidence that another dark gray truck sped away just before you hear “get ‘im”?

  11. Anyone want to respond to this from a “liberal” college professor:

    I am honestly sorry for the pain of those who decided from the beginning that this case was, that it had to be, about racism. To them, every new bit of evidence is a defeat, and anyone who provides such evidence is a liar and a racist. All the witnesses, for example.

    I actually have been there.

    Which doesn’t actually help me communicate with those who still are. There’s a reason I’m not a clinician.

    To those who think this verdict was wrong, my only question is this: If a video appeared that showed the whole thing, and in this *one* case, Zimmerman really did act in self-defense…what would change?

    Or this:

    Self-defense means you have the right to kill them to preserve your own life even though they aren’t culpable.

    When anyone actually has to do that, it’s a tragedy. And something that can be really hard to face.

    We want to live in a just world in which one side or the other is always culpable, and there are never misunderstandings, and there are never situations in which both people or both sides feel forced to fight to the death.

    But that’s not this world.

    …so to come back down to earth. In terms of what to teach young people to try to keep them safe, I agree:

    I see it as understandable, but one must restrain oneself from posing an actual deadly threat to someone if one is to expect not to be met with a self-defense of deadly force. This is true regardless of race, and regardless of emotions beforehand.

    • crazy1946 says:

      already been said, Simply because someone has an education does not mean they are smarter than a box of rocks!

      • Linda Andersen says:

        You’ve got that right! And I’m a high-school educated progressive who firmly believes that college is wasted on some people!

    • Judy75201 says:

      “I am honestly sorry for the pain of those who decided from the beginning that this case was, that it had to be, about racism.”

      Really, stop posting this pro-murder crap.

    • cielo62 says:

      He’s not a “liberal”. He’s a closet racist and intellectualizes it to himself and others. He’s a real self righteous tool. Do not judge liberals by that ducking moron.


      • Linda Andersen says:

        Thank you. Believe me, Mz. Gladys believed she married UP because she caught herself a white man. Wasn’t SHE delusional??!!

        • cielo62 says:

          Linda- color does not equal character.

          • Linda Andersen says:

            I know that, but obviously she didn’t. Having worked with tons of Hispanics in the DC area, I thought I’d try to improve my Spanish, but every time I learned how to pronounce something, another co-worker would have a hissy fit! “Don’t listen to her! Her Spanish is terrible!”

          • cielo62 says:

            Linda- LOL! True! Spanish is slightly different depending where you are. You’ve got your “Pure” Castilian Spanish in Spain. Colombia and Venezuela also have fairly “pure” grammatical Spanish, and it’s downhill from there. The worst is Puerto Rican or maybe Cuban Spanish. Tex mex is not Spanish at all.

          • Linda Andersen says:

            That’s where I learned how racist Hispanics are against each other! The ones from Spain hate the ones from South America. The ones from South America hate the ones from Central America and the Caribbean. And they ALL hate Mexicans! Plus, the ones who married whites thought they were better than everyone else.

          • cielo62 says:

            Linda- yep!! You got that right! I still get somewhat upset when I’m mistaken for Mexican for 3 reasons. 1. Not all Spanish speakers are Mexican. 2. I’m Colombian. 3. My Spanish is WAY better than your typical Mexican (ie in Texas that would be poor, uneducated and undocumented).

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @Linda Anderson,

          RJZSeeenior is half Cuban. His father, Georgie’s grandpa Zimmerman, worked for the US State Department and married the daughter of a Cuban diplomat in Ottawa, Canada a few years after the end of WW II. That’s why Seeenior’s given name is “Roberto.” He already spoke Spanish before he married Gladys.

          George is 75% Hispanic/Latino, give or take a few distant relatives.

          • fauxmccoy says:


            i have looked into this aspect extensively since it was brought forth by a former poster who i shall not name. there is nothing to back up her claims other than her ‘word’. if you do have something definitive, i would of course love to see it.

            on it’s face, it seems an impossibility that robert and gladys were married in that era, just by looking at their ages now

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Faux –

            Foxy, the post WWII marriage on Ottawa was Robert Sr’s parents – this is in the State Department document.

            Their son “Roberto” and Gladys married in the 70’s.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @pmom — i have read the stuff posted repeatedly by said unnamed former poster here. although the establishment of ‘roberto’ the diplomat seems secure, the fact that this is his son has never been established as far as i am aware.

            if you have any facts to suggest otherwise, i’d be delighted to see them. until then, i shall remain a skeptic.

          • PiranhaMom says:


            Hmmm – you are doubting that the Roberto (spouse of Gladys), that we all loathe, is the son of the US State Dept. staffer who married the Cuban diplomat’s daughter?

            Had not considered that.

            Frankly, the whole pack of Zimermans are so tawdry that I can’t imagine anyone wanting to claim lineage. (But the Mezas have met their match.)

            And why they fuss so, about “whiteness.”

            Let them claim an albino ancestor.

          • fauxmccoy says:


            yes, i serious do doubt the relation of robt. zim sr. to the roberto zimmerman of ‘cuban diplomat fame’. if you read the links provided by previous poster, there is no way that the two are related because of age, birth places and more.

            beyond that, i cannot locate any legitimate link between the two. i think the whole ‘connection’ is BS and in the mind of former poster since there is nothing to back it up but ‘her’ word. i further think that enough people here believed that poster who had no proof and have continued the story. in the face of all lacking evidence, i would like this to stop.

            i am not picking on you, i am sure you know this. i have brought this up with many who repeat this story and most do not respond. i would simply encourage you as a finder of fact to remain a skeptic, not further the story until (and if) actual facts can be located. i have spent more hours than i care to admit trying to verify this story and with all of my internet research skills i cannot. i would be delighted if you or anyone were willing to help find facts, but i cannot in good faith repeat this story as fact. also consider that this previous poster is where we got the ‘zim sr. and wolfinger’ connection stories. i can go into further details on the likely falsehood of that as well.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @faucmccoy –

            I think your point is well-taken, and the whole issue is extraneous to the question, “Was justice served?”

            Now, we know the answer for that, for certain.

          • fauxmccoy says:


            thanks —

            remember too, that the ‘source’ for this story also gave us the bizarre ‘adoption’ theories that can not be verified (but we retell them as ‘truth’) the wolfinger is gz’s godfather or that rz sr is godfather of some wolfinger offspring (again, can not be verified) and there are more, i am sure you will recall.

            i agree that this side issue is extraneous and in no way addresses the ‘justice’ aspect of the entire case. it is merely my own very stringent desire to stick to known facts that makes me address this issue. the ‘story’ with all of it’s salacious details was sensational which was what piqued my interest. unfortunately, it does not hold up to scrutiny and although it be a small thing, it’s my personal mission that we as a group stop telling this particular story or put up the proof that is necessary.

          • PiranhaMom says:


            Well stated, Foxy, and I concur.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            thanks, again, pmom. i’m on a one woman crusade for this group to stop putting forth unsubstantiated rumors as facts. it makes us look silly and it is certainly the same we’ve come to expect from the opposition. i’d be delighted to have you join me.

      • White people have gotten their second wind. They figured out that defending this murder and this verdict made them feel good about themselves. They enjoy the idea of a black person lashing out due to oppression so they can kill them. That way they can subconsciously tell black people that they have no other choice than to be oppressed. They have no intension of punishing those that do. The story just makes them feel good. It doesn’t have to make sense.

    • MDH says:

      Easy to deal with this man. Ask to simple questions.

      Oh, so do you agree that a smaller boy has the right to defend his life against the real threat of a larger man with a gun?

      Or is this lame tome just a way of covering for your believe that all black males, regardless of size, are super human thugs?

      Do you really expect any of us who live in the real USA to believe that, if Trayvon were a blond haired blue eyed white boy, that GZ would have got the same sympathy and been found not guilty?

      No one “decides” to bring racism into a trial. Racism is a fact of life in the USA.

      Liberals use logic combined with critical thought to find a clear picture of what really is in a world obscured by shades of grey.

      So there is nothing liberal about this professor.

      He is clearly in camp with the delusional thought that we are a post racial society if only those people would not get emotional and bring racism into a discussion.

      • @MDH

        We want to live in a just world in which one side or the other is always culpable, and there are never misunderstandings, and there are never situations in which both people or both sides feel forced to fight to the death.

        He would say based on the “evidence” Martin didn’t know there was a gun.

        Or is this lame tome just a way of covering for your believe that all black males, regardless of size, are super human thugs?

        He would say you are injecting race or that everything Martin was described as doing was possible according to “renowned experts” or that Z was a 1.5 out of 10.

        Do you really expect any of us who live in the real USA to believe that, if Trayvon were a blond haired blue eyed white boy, that GZ would have got the same sympathy and been found not guilty?

        He would say you would rather engage in speculation or emotion rather than the “evidence.”

        No one “decides” to bring racism into a trial. Racism is a fact of life in the USA.

        He would say institutional racism is real but not in this case; Z is just a scapegoat.

        Liberals use logic combined with critical thought to find a clear picture of what really is in a world obscured by shades of grey.

        So there is nothing liberal about this professor.

        This is true. But he is still very dangerous because of his position and ability to psychologically manipulate without appearing threatening. He knows the language leftist speak.

        • [correction]

          Oh, so do you agree that a smaller boy has the right to defend his life against the real threat of a larger man with a gun?

          He would say based on the “evidence” Martin didn’t know there was a gun.

  12. Yorazigo says:

    Interesting article from last week in the Orlando Sentinal.


    • crazy1946 says:

      Yorazigo, Isn’t it ironic that the press that worked so hard to ensure that the Fogdoit would not be convicted, now sits back and blames the lack of justice on the prosecution? Wonder how many splinters they have gotten while sitting on that fence……

    • cielo62 says:

      Yorazigo/ without opening up a can of worms, I find Maddy a despicable human being. But yes, the prosecution team threw the case. I hope they rot in a very very hit and painful place.


      • Yorazigo says:


        It makes me very angry that she and the other two gave in to the bigoted bullies on that jury, but I did think of one thing about her stand this week — all of us who have followed the case and seen the discrepancies in GZ’s stories picked apart and analyzed, LLM Papa’s videos, reviewed the forensic evidence, reviewed the law with professor’s help etc., have an advantage in having a much bigger picture (not quite the whole picture as we can only guess what probably happened during the missing minutes). B-29 and the other two didn’t have the tools to argue for guilty against the “mob,” especially B-29 when she was the lone hold out. I picture the others bullying her and making her feel inadequate and inferior, uneducated, etc.

        I fault her and the other two who originally voted GUILTY because common sense tells one that this was a cold-blooded murder, and in the end they had a choice, and they chose to follow the “crowd.”

        • acemayo says:

          Racial disturbances were common during the early 20th century in the United States, reflecting the nation’s rapid social changes. Florida had an especially high number of lynchings in the years before the massacre of rosewood, including the well-publicized Perry race riot where a black man had been burned at the stake in December 1922 no was arrested for their crime.
          Black’s do wrong like any other race
          To themselves as well to other races
          The need to hate is the human race problem
          And how we react to that hate
          Its become so bad when you hate a person
          Because of his race
          Where he live
          How much money they have or lack of it
          What group they belong to
          What god they believe in
          And we don’t know their name

        • cielo62 says:

          Yorazigo- exactly. They caved in. Like Einstein said, the world is a bad place not because of evil people, but because good people stand by and do nothing in the face of evil. I posted that with a dedication to juror b29 on my Facebook page.


        • ladystclaire says:

          This was by far, the worst murder trial that I have ever seen conducted in this country. Can someone please tell me, why was it so important for them to dismantle Trayvon’s phone while at the same time, keeping Fogen’s social media and correspondence under seal via a court order.

          They didn’t have to take his phone apart but, they did and I don’t understand what the hell for. BTW, this trial was fixed from the very beginning and, may Angela Corey. BDLR, Rick Scott, Pam Bondi and, last but not least, the defense attorneys along with the family Fogen and JN, MAY THEY ALL BURN AND ROT IN HELL FOR ALL OF ETERNITY.

          Trayvon deserved a lot better than what he got but, as it turns out, he got nothing but his name and his character smeared by those “IGNORANT” racist whites in this country. One thing about it though is this, “WHAT GOES AROUND, COMES AROUND!”

      • Yorazigo says:

        P.S. Cielo

        I notice your desk is still cluttered after all this time!

  13. crazy1946 says:

    six member on jury, unamious verdict!


    • Yorazigo says:

      Thank you!

      • crazy1946 says:

        That is the reason that I said in an earlier post that it would be a difficult choice to file a suit against the Fogdoit in Seminole County… A black plaintiff suing a white defendant (remember he is no long an afro Peruvian) in a community full of racists? It also could bring about a maneuver by MOM (who has stated he will defend the Fogdoit in civil suits) to manipulate the court system and actually hold a SYG hearing in advance to a civil court case…. It could end up being a big financial loss for the family of Trayvon…. But again, they are the ones who have to make the decision, not us….

        • Yorazigo says:

          That’s why I was thinking about the makeup of a civil jury.

          I live in Central FL not far from Seminole County, and I well know the prejudiced climate here and how the news out of Orlando, written and televised, victimized Trayvon, interviewing MOM and repeating his garbage.

        • Woow! says:

          Couldn’t they file in federal court depending on the amount prayed for? That is what happened in Collin County TX when a white officer killed a black women in her home.

          The officer entered the house and shot her and said she thought she was a burglar b/c she was in a $600k home. The husband sued in state court and the fix was in so he filed in federal court and the city settled that same day.

  14. Yorazigo says:

    Does anyone (maybe Professor needs to answer) know about juries in civil case in FL? Twelve members? Does verdict have to be unanimous, or just a majority?

  15. LBTG says:

    It was strange that the cop was WAY back, passed some cars and then sped up like crazy until reaching fogen’s SUV. Fogen’s SUV was parked with the flashers on – like fogen was having car trouble. Looks like the cop stopped to investigate why an SUV was parked in the breakdown lane.

    • Yorazigo says:

      This video doesn’t add up in my mind either. Staged?

    • Woow! says:

      That is not uncommon in TX it is called DWB or DWM. That cop was profiling. He was probably posted up on the service road or in between and put his lights on CAC to stop then he caught up with him.

      That is how they do it in the DFW —– not until that tag was ran did that cop know who it was then decided to let him go.

      No matter when a cop stop a black or Mexican they will call for another officer, have then on on the side of the road sitting in cuffs searching the car.

      That stop of a Hispanic looking dude was weird; they don’t just check for warrants here.

  16. Judy75201 says:

    After Lady2 pointed out the lack of cohesiveness in the Forney, TX dashcam vid, I don’t believe the incident is authentic.

    • ay2z says:

      That is strange, he was along way forward. Did not look like a pull-over at all, unless someone had a scanner and stopped long before the cop got anywhere near his tail.

      • Seems like everything about GZ is staged, doesn’t it?

        • ay2z says:

          Did a little bit of gum shoein’ tonight and found out exactly where that Honda Ridgeline was pulled over headed WEST. The precise location is on I 80 East, with a parallel service road. the Old US 80, to the right. On the video thumbnail, a green highway exit sign is seen and farther along, another much larger billboard sign which is seen from Google Earth arial maps, the smaller sign needs street view. Can’t miss the location, it’s a big square crop field on the arial view.

          The sign reads “Exit 740, Pinson Rd, EXIT 1 MILE”.

          “Co”incidence means two linked incidences. Interesting choice of word by the highway cop, if he had not run into gz before somewhere, somehow.

          Interesting that we do not see the cop car following a Honda ridgeline on the dash cam, but he comes up on a fully stopped fogen, flashing lights already on. Cop hardly seems to do a pull over, so why would someone pull over like this for a cop so far back, and behind other traffic, unless they had some reason to have insight into that cop’s intentions. Strange.

          And strange that we do not hear the cop comment on speed or speed limits to the driver. Just ‘where are you headed?’ Strange.

          Interesting coincidence, that fogen stops right where an address will clearly show up on a huge big sign, pinpointing exactly where he is located, 1 mile east of the 740 Exit, and the big field and the billboard, confirm that he is parked westbound.

          Fogen might be looking for financial ops, driving around to Forney’s gunshops to meet like-minded individuals, networking as Xena mentioned, the gun shows for ops and free stuff. But we have seen how people have profited from fogen, Kokopelli’s business, for example.

          Doesn’t take much to wonder about the ‘International Karate and Self Defense’ business that’s close to Exit 740, Pinson Rd. (near the big MacDonald’s with flags). Google directions say the distance is 0.3 miles, with a walk time, of 6 minutes.

          Could fogen be setting up a media op to demo just how he attracts attention to businesses? This stop could be testing the waters, or just another coincidence.

          Fogen has been setting stuff up since day one, when he visited KoKopelli’s gym the morning after he killed Trayvon.

          Nowhere in particular– right. Coincidence that he pulls over in the best possible place to ID location precisely?– right.


        • ay2z says:

          There are three gun shops within the area he was ‘pulled over’ at. One of them, Zombie Gun and Supply, has several safety, personal protection courses and seminars, as well as laser practice training.


    • Linda Andersen says:

      Wow! First the fake “rescue” and now this. This entire saga just goes on and on….

    • I totally agree. The speeding truck the cop was chasing passed Fogen already sitting in the side lane. The only defining point of this and the rescue event is that Fogen craves attention, even if it’s staged.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      I think gz was “way forward and parked” because he was going 30miles over the speed limit when the police officer turned on his siren to gz.

      It would have taken gz quite a distance (and time) to change lanes toward the right before he could finally stop.

      By the time the police officer was able to catch up to gz, gz had already managed to park on the right side of the road.

    • ay2z says:

      The white car never noticed the cop come up behind him, then noticed and headed to the left shoulder. Not the smartest move as he could have first signalled to move into the right lane, if the truck that alrready moved over would slow to allow it as normal. Puling off at passing lane speed onto a shoulder, then having to break back into the fast lane from there after slowing, isn’t the best driving in the world. Seems like the driver wasn’t paying a lot of attention to what was going on around him.

    • crazy1946 says:

      I disagree, it was not staged, the Fogdoit probably went thru radar, we know he has a scanner (from the rescue story) and rather than forcing the cop to chase him, pulled to side of road. Listen carefully when the officer pulls behind him, he calls in the tag number (816-KLP Florida) before he gets out of the car. You will also hear him call in the Fogdoits DL # Z565313833650 Florida. No it was a legit stop, Texas will generally allow about five mph over the limit but some officers will not write a ticket until ten mph over the limit…

  17. Since the prosecutors and the court seemed like they were afraid to present the full forensics about Fogen’s case, when MOM proffered the cartoon of what happened, if I were a part of the prosecution team, I would have proffered a quality hologram (ala Tupac w/o the Thug Life innuendo) of Trayvon showing exactly what happened to him given all the forensics, both those offered at trial and the unfinished forensic areas.

    Prosecutors had the resources to do this but imho treated and tried this as a run-of-the-mill murder case without presenting factual evidence that was right there in their hands (time line, clubhouse videos, Fogen’s own statements, more effective cross of buttinsky Fogenpop, etc.). Prosecutors around the country have sent people to death row for much, much less evidence than presented here. And yes, I’m having a hard time getting over the fiascos called lawyering in Trayvon’s case. Perhaps one day I’ll get this behind me, but the egregiousness of it all has me spitting nails again.

  18. acemayo says:

    Florida had an especially high number of lynchings in the years before the massacre, including the well-publicized Perry race riot where a black man had been burned at the stake in December 1922.
    History repeats itself
    GZ took law classes he knew what to say
    If GZ was closed enough to look at his face to look like he’s on drugs
    Something is wrong with him
    How many people in his past he call about who was white and did not belong
    History lesson 101 why histort repeats

    The Rosewood massacre was a violent, racially motivated conflict that took place during the first week of January 1923 in rural Levy County, Florida, United States. At least six blacks and two whites were killed, and the town of Rosewood was abandoned and destroyed in what contemporary news reports characterized as a race riot. Racial disturbances were common during the early 20th century in the United States, reflecting the nation’s rapid social changes. Florida had an especially high number of lynchings in the years before the massacre, including the well-publicized Perry race riot where a black man had been burned at the stake in December 1922.
    Rosewood was a quiet, primarily black, self-sufficient whistle stop on the Seaboard Air Line Railway. Spurred by unsupported accusations that a white woman in nearby Sumner had been beaten and possibly raped by a black drifter, white men from nearby towns lynched a Rosewood resident. When black citizens defended themselves against further attack, several hundred whites combed the countryside hunting for black people and burned almost every structure in Rosewood. Survivors hid for several days in nearby swamps and were evacuated by train and car to larger towns. Although state and local authorities were aware of the violence, they made no arrests for the activities in Rosewood. The town was abandoned by black residents during the attacks. None ever returned.
    Although the rioting was widely reported around the country, few official records documented the event. Survivors, their descendants, and the perpetrators remained silent about Rosewood for decades.
    Racial tensions in Florida[edit]
    Racial violence at the time was common throughout the nation, manifested as individual incidents of extra-legal actions, or attacks on entire communities. Lynchings reached a peak around the start of the 20th century and continued to be used as punishment throughout the South. In 1866 Florida, as did many Southern states, passed laws called Black Codes disfranchising black citizens.[8] Although these were quickly overturned, and black citizens enjoyed a brief period of improved social standing, by the late 19th century black political influence was virtually nil. A poll tax was imposed on Floridians in 1885, largely disfranchising poor whites and blacks alike, and further legal and political rights deteriorated in the years following.[9] Without the right to vote, blacks were excluded as jurors and could not run for office, effectively excluding them from the political process
    When U.S. troop training began for World War I, the idea of black soldiers receiving combat instruction alarmed many white Southerners. A confrontation regarding the rights of black soldiers culminated in the Houston Riot of 1917. German propaganda encouraged black soldiers to turn against their “real” enemies: American whites. Rumors reached the U.S. that French women had been sexually active with black American soldiers, which University of Florida historian David Colburn argues struck at the heart of Southern fears.[2] Colburn connects growing concerns of sexual intimacy between the races to what occurred in Rosewood: “Southern culture had been constructed around a set of mores and values which places white women at its center and in which the purity of their conduct and their banners represented the refinement of that culture. An attack on women not only represented a violation of the South’s foremost taboo, but it also threatened to dismantle the very nature of southern society.”[2] The transgression of sexual taboo subsequently combined with the arming of blacks to raise fears among whites of an impending race war in the South.
    Despite Governor Catts’ change of attitude, white mob action frequently occurred in towns throughout north and central Florida and went unchecked by local law enforcement. Extrajudicial violence was so common that it often did not make the front pages of newspapers.[1] In 1920, whites removed four black men from a local jail and lynched them after they were accused of raping a white woman in Macclenny. In Ocoee the same year, two black citizens armed themselves to go to the polls during an election. A confrontation ensued and two white election officials were shot, after which a white mob destroyed Ocoee’s black community, causing as many as 30 deaths, and destroying 25 homes, two churches, and a Masonic Lodge.[14] Just weeks before the Rosewood massacre, the Perry Race Riot occurred on 14 and 15 December 1922, in which whites burned Charles Wright at the stake and attacked the black community of Perry, Florida after the murder of a white schoolteacher.[15] On the day following Wright’s lynching two more black men were shot and hanged; whites then burned the town’s black school, Masonic lodge, church, amusement hall, and several families’ homes.[15][16]
    Whites Use More Drugs Than Blacks: The Great Narco Lie
    by Auset Marian Lewis
    This article previously appeared in the Indypendent Reader.
    “Whites are eleven percent more likely to have used drugs than Blacks and twenty-five percent more likely to have done so than Hispanics.”
    My husband is a Black man. He is one of the hardest working Americans I know, but he is wearing the face of crime in America. That means that if he is in an elevator with a white woman, she is apt to clutch her purse a little tighter. If he’s traveling down a dark deserted street, she might cross over to the other side. When he goes into a store, the security guard is likely to follow him, anticipating theft.
    If you look at the prison system, it is filled with a whole lot of people who look like him. Indeed, it appears that these Black rascals are the culprits terrorizing honest, law-abiding Americans. These are the deadbeats who are sucking up all the drugs and thwarting the Drug War causing murder and mayhem in an otherwise civilized society. That is what many people think.
    Although it may be of little comfort to know this, the Bernie Madoffs and Wall Street derivative junkies of the world are more likely to do you harm than my dapper husband walking to his car parked on St. Paul Street. At least we can be pretty sure that this Black man is not about to foreclose on your home due to predatory and tricky lending practices. He is not about to ship your young men off to war to be killed based on the Pinocchio principle—lying through your teeth. This Black man is not trying to rip off struggling, recession-weary Americans to give stuff to the rich. He is not likely to go to a school and unload an AR15 assault weapon on our children. Nonetheless, we easily see the criminal as the dark man whose TV images have flashed before our eyes in the Zero Tolerance Drug War aimed at black and brown communities. But isn’t that smart policing since that’s where all the criminals are? Are they really?………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
    turns out, that was not the case.
    “The Bernie Madoffs and Wall Street derivative junkies of the world are more likely to do you harm than my dapper husband.”
    Kenneth B. Nunn, Professor of Law and Assistant Director of the Criminal Justice Center, wrote:
    “In 1982, when the drug war began, the recreational use of illegal drugs was in decline…in 1982, surveys conducted by the National Institute on Drug Abuse showed significant drops in drug usage over long periods for a wide range of age groups. This decline impacted the use of both legal and illegal substances.”
    The intersection of drugs and race is striking when looking at drug arrest rates in 1988 and even in 2010. At the height of the drug war in 1988, the ratio of arrests regarding African Americans and Whites is very telling. Arrests for Black people were 1,033 per 100,000 people; Whites only 273. Over the years, the chart shows a steep decline in African American arrests, however, the ratio is still skewed—in 2010: Blacks, 723; Whites 492.
    “Stop and Frisk” is a Drug War police tactic used to apprehend criminals by stopping and searching random people who cops view as suspicious. A 2011 New York Police Department study reported that in that year alone, 700,000 unfortunates were swept into this New York dragnet. Nearly ninety percent of those stopped were African American or Hispanic. With Bloomberg as Mayor, from 2003 to 2011, “stop and frisks” increased by 600 percent.
    New York Civil Liberties Union Executive Director Donna Liebermann stated:
    “While it appears at first blush to be a slick, fact-filled response, nothing in the report can dispute the reality that stop and frisk NYPD-style is targeted overwhelmingly at people of color, so innocent of any criminal wrongdoing, that all but 12 percent walk away without so much as a ticket.”
    Is this very controversial racial profiling policy really the way to catch criminals and make our streets safer? A twelve percent yield is not a winning outcome.
    So why haven’t Rambo tactics in black and brown communities, with police slamming people up against the wall to be spread-eagled, searched, insulted and demeaned, brought about better results?
    “With Bloomberg as Mayor, from 2003 to 2011, ‘stop and frisks’ increased by 600 percent.”
    White anti-racist Tim Wise, author and public speaker on White supremacy, wrote in his book Dear White America that Whites were more likely to use drugs than Blacks. When I read that, my mind went into a brain freeze. How is that possible? That can’t be true. Pictures flashed through my mind: crack addicts selling their babies, women trading shocking, deviant sex acts for drugs, and violent junkies terrorizing neighborhoods. All those faces were black.
    In 2000, Tim Wise wrote, “According to the Department of Health and Human Services, Whites are eleven percent more likely to have used drugs than Blacks and twenty-five percent more likely to have done so than Hispanics.” He further reports that a National Drug Abuse Survey from the Centers for Disease Control found that Whites in high school were “seven times more likely than Blacks to have used cocaine or heroin, and six times more likely to have used methamphetamine.
    In 2001, Wise revealed findings from the National Institutes on Drug Abuse, the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Health and Human Services, admitting the fact that contrary to popular belief, Whites were at least as likely, if not more likely, to use drugs than their black and brown stopped-and-frisked-like-a South-African kafir brethren.
    Perhaps even more shocking came the statistic that it is more likely that a White male has carried a weapon in the last thirty days than…well, my husband.
    As for drug dealers, according to the Justice Department, the culprits who are using and selling drugs are mostly White, middle-class males between the ages of 14 and 32. The image etched in my brain of crazy, scared White kids coming into black ghettoes to “score” exploded. Whites mostly buy from Whites and apparently keep it in their own middle-class suburbs or frat houses.
    The obvious question at this point from all these government statistics is if a great deal of money has been spent to uncover these truths, why are the drug arrests and convictions so heavily skewed toward Black people. If the War on Drugs did not evolve out of a drug crisis, if the people targeted after a very racist media campaign are Black people and not Whites who are more likely to have drugs, if White people are toting guns (lest we not forget the gun-slinging NRA) more than Blacks, if they are guzzling drugs and selling them in the ‘burbs—and let’s not get into the wealthy who own the planes and banks that launder the money—if all that is true, then you mean to tell me that the face of crime in America is my Black husband. Really?
    Using fear of “the other” as a chisel to carve out a hidden political agenda is boilerplate American strategy and nothing new. We can recognize this tactic today in the Republican racist dog whistles that serve to cement their political base. However, this Machiavellian strategy is as old as the scars of slavery itself.
    “Whites in high school were ‘seven times more likely than Blacks to have used cocaine or heroin, and six times more likely to have used methamphetamine.’”
    It was in the beginning of the twentieth century that drugs became regulated. Before that, cocaine could be bought in a Sears Roebuck catalog for $1.50. Even though most of the addicted drug users were White women and war veterans whose doctors had prescribed the opiates, the face of drugs quickly became “the other.”
    There was much racial animus toward the immigrant Chinese and their opium dens, which were seen as a corrupting influence on the morals of White women. The scare tactic was the myth that the Asians were seducing these women into debauchery. This culture war against the Chinese, accused of taking White people’s jobs, caused the city council of San Francisco to pass the first drug law. In 1875, they put a ban on smoking in the opium dens—meanwhile, the opiate laudunum, the drug of choice for many genteel White women (including Lincoln’s addicted wife) remained legal.
    The illogical differentiation of drugs smacks of the modern cocaine/crack discriminatory sentencing guidelines. The minimum sentencing guidelines for crack cocaine were a hundred times harsher than sentencing for powder cocaine. Crack, the cheaper drug more available in poor communities, put a majority of Black people away. The media made it appear that it was mostly Black people addicted to the drug, not Whites. In 1994, 96.5% of sentences for crack abuse were applied to non-Whites. This is the tricky part, though. David B. Kopel & Michael Krause write in an article, “The Drug War Against Civil Liberty and Human Rights”:
    “Yet statistics from the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) reveal that most crack users are White. Of person reporting cocaine use (in anonymous surveys) in 1991, 75% were White; 15% Black and 10% Hispanic. In the same year, persons reporting crack use were 52%, White, 38% Black, and 10% Hispanic.”
    “Most crack users are White.”
    In 1914, when the federal government went on a campaign to regulate the production, sale, and distribution of opiates (an early twentieth century Drug War, so to speak) they knew that they did not have jurisdiction over criminal law. That was a matter for the states. However, they could tax, so they added a tax to the law. Further, in order to overcome objections by southern states-rights congressmen, they racialized the issue. Hence, the Harrison Narcotics Tax Act was born. A media campaign ensued to make the Black man the face of drug crime. Kopel and Krause report:
    “The Harrison Act was…incited by newspapers which printed wildly racist headlines to drive up sales and to create panic about the rape of White women by Black men, high on cocaine. For example, a New York Times article titled, ‘Negro Cocaine Fiends, New Southern Menace’ claimed ‘most of the attacks upon White women in the South are the direct result of the ‘cocaine crazed’ Negro brain.”
    They also warned against the Chinese and Hispanics who were charged with all kinds of vile characteristics that could threaten White people. They even said that the drug would create super-human powers and assigned police more lethal weaponry so that they could better subdue the “bogeymen”—shades of our militarized SWAT police force that developed as a result of the scare tactics of Reagan’s Drug War.
    If the face of crime in America is not the Black man, then what does it look like? How can we adjust our thinking about this pervasive lie?
    At its inception, the United States began as a criminal enterprise: genocide of Native Americans for land, and the enslavement of African people for profit. These are some of the greatest atrocities in human history. The effects of that cynical barbarism remain with us today in big ways and small. For some, it may seem like a small thing that my husband has to bear the face of crime in America, that people cannot see him without contemplating his criminal status. You might say that he just needs to “get over it.” Even if he could, I can’t.
    What I resent the most is that I was programmed to believe a lie that denigrates my very family. A lie that I live with daily. Many people believe that the past no longer matters and that I just need to bask in the embrace of the new White liberalism. I need to embrace my peach-white, miscegenated grandchildren and call it a day. Maybe they’re right. However, I like the saying: “A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes.” In that regard, I take great care on how I put on my shoes in America, and tread ever so lightly on this bloody, appropriated soil.
    TM has drug in his system, he’s a criminal

    • Linda Andersen says:

      Very thought provoking article, Acemayo. I firmly believe that Trayvon was just a typical teenager (the good, the bad, and the sometimes ugly), whereas Fogen, on the other hand, is just pure evil.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Marijuana makes you blissful, hungry, and after that sleepy.

      Badazz drug.

  19. ay2z says:

    The mugger should have just pulled the trigger, he would have had the right to, even though he instigated the ‘event’, the GZ case proved that provokation doesn’t matter.

    (big Snark, but the mugger could have used the hollow poitns on the guy’s chest when he had the chance– his beatdown was more serious than anything sustained by Mr. Sta-Puffed.

  20. ay2z says:

    “SYB” law and how to make use of it, proactively without getting caught..

  21. Olivia says:

    Trayvon could see well enough in the darkness of that night to walk to and from the store without a flashlight.

    If Bernie wanted to dispute Zimmerman’s claim that Trayvon saw Zimmerman’s holstered gun, then all he needed to do is point out that Trayvon could not have seen the gun located in Zimmerman’s back pocket.

    If Bernie wanted jurors to conclude that Trayvon could not have been screaming in fear because Zimmerman held a gun to his chest, then talking about an inability to see a dark gun on a dark night was a good idea.

  22. bettykath says:

    If you are ready for a smile, or maybe a rofl, watch this.

  23. Olivia says:

    Bernie didn’t say what he believed should be concluded from the dark night and dark gun.

    He left jurors to arrive at their own conclusion(s):

    1. Trayvon couldn’t have seen the gun in Zimmerman’s holster.
    2. Trayvon couldn’t have seen the gun in Zimmerman’s hand, and therefore didn’t scream in fear that Zimmerman would shoot and kill him.

    Listening to Bernie, my thoughts went first to (1), and then to (2).

    • pat deadder says:

      Why didn’t the prosecution come out in public like omara did.Or is this not allowed.In Canada neither is allowed.I think that makes more sense.

      • Olivia says:

        @pat deader, Within days of saying he didn’t plan to try the case in the media, O’Mara was busy drumming up support for Zimmerman via online social media.

        State prosecutors represent the state/people of the state.

        Angela Corey’s team represented the CONSERVATIVE, REPUBLICAN state of Florida.

        Wish the family could have chosen a law firm to represent Trayvon.

        • MOM knew exactly what he was doing in trying the case in the media with a view to soliciting donations from Fogen’s base of supporters, an idea I believe that was spawned by “Jorge’s” crass infomercial.

          IMO, those who donated to his ‘defense’ did not do so without some expectation in return. Not just a not guilty verdict, but out of consideration for Fogen to be the poster boy for their gun-totin’ stand-your-ground causes. Problem is, Fogen knows nothing about ‘dancing with the ones who brought him to the prom.’ The words ‘responsibility’ and ‘obligation’ are not in his mental dictionary or vocabulary. So, he and his family have nothing to worry about those who RZJ are spouting are obvious threat to their lives, but I would think that the threatening phone calls are coming from their donators.

        • pat deadder says:

          Olivia says Wish the family could have chosen a law firm to represent Trayvon.Yea me too.

      • Malisha says:

        The prosecution, by law is not allowed to comment on any information that has NOT already been made public. The prosecution, therefore, COULD have commented on anything that O’Mara had already commented on. THey could have said:

        1. The picture ABC showed was not taken by police;
        2. The picture Wagner took has a “chain of evidence” problem;
        3. The allegations about Trayvon Martin are false;
        4. The defendant had violence in his past and we can prove it;
        5. The defendant trained at an MMA gym for years;
        6. The defendant was reported by neighbors for chasing young Black men, stopping them and threatening them, and behaving in other ways that made his neighbors uncomfortable;
        7. Defendant made false allegations against his landlord, his employee, co-workers and others;
        8. Defendant was charged with a felony in 2005 and had the charges dropped down to misdemeanor somehow;
        9. Defendant chose not to get an x-ray of the nose he claimed was broken;
        10. Defendant did not need big-ass silly-looking bandaids all over his potato-head on 2/27/2012.

        • Olivia says:

          RE: “Defendant did not need big-ass bandaids”:

          Those band-aids were just props to support his head-bashing story.

          My cat who doesn’t retract her nails has punctured my legs, shoulders and head with holes the size of those on the pictures of Zimmerman.

          I’ve never bandaged the punctures. Just wash and air-dry.

          The pain is gone within minutes if not seconds.

          Somewhat surprised he didn’t wear a neck brace and back brace to the act.

          I know a person whose head impacted with a concrete patio just one time. Unconscious when medics arrived.

          Hospitalized for more than a year, followed by speech and motor skills therapy.


        • Linda Andersen says:

          I agree. I had a worse head injury than that (4 stitches) and all I did was slip on a wet floor. Sears fell all over themselves, calling for an ambulance, cleaning up the mess (it looked like a scene from a horror movie), and paying every penny of my medical bills. Guess the were afraid of a lawsuit!

        • “2. The picture Wagner took has a “chain of evidence” problem;”
          …along with the photoshopped left-shifted nose alignment problem. lol

        • pat deadder says:

          Malisha S o why in hell didn’t they do that.Love all your commets by the way.

          • Malisha says:

            The prosecution was helping the good guy get away.

            Here’s my question: If one day a good guy kills Fogen, will the prosecution help THAT good guy get away too?

  24. Deborah Moore says:

    Further to the comments about Karma…

    (You been laughin’….

  25. Olivia says:

    Did Nelson and prosecutors CHOOSE to let O’Mara lie during is closing remarks? Or, are attorneys permitted to lie during closing remarks?

    In his close, O’Mara propped up not-to-scale cardboard shapes and a large photo edited to depict more swelling on the predator’s nose than is shown on the original photo.

    None of the prosecutors objected to those lies.

    Nelson can’t be accused of promoting justice when she permits lies to be depicted as truth.

  26. Olivia says:

    Can anybody tell me if the image that O’Mara showed jurors of the predator’s nose (edited with PS or another graphics editing program) was entered into evidence and sent back to the juror’s room?

    Also, did prosecutors have the real images of his face (taken at the precinct) entered into evidence?

    Were those un-doctored photos sent back to the juror’s room?

  27. Olivia says:

    If predator Zimmerman’s victim had been female and white, most of the racists would have condemned the juror’s for their not-guilty verdict.

    Doubt that even the NRA could get most of them to support the murderer of a white female.

    Especially, a TEENAGED white female.

    A 17 year-old white female walking home in the rain. The predator aims his gun at her heart and pulls the trigger.

    Jurors look at an image photo-shopped to show minor swelling on one side of the predator’s nose.

    They look at a second image that shows scratches on the back of the predator’s head.

    Their conclusion: 17 year-old white female tried to defend herself when the predator attacked.

    Predator: Guilty of Murder.

    • Woow! says:

      There wouldn’t have been a not guilty verdict if the victim was white female or male. The gun nuts also would not have donated money or supported CAC.

  28. bettykath says:

    I was just thinking about fogen driving across TX. I agree with others that he’s probably going to a gun show, but it’s entirely possible that he wasn’t invited. He could have invited himself and expecting to be their hero.

    • Linda Andersen says:

      You could be right. That DOES sound like his standard Modus operandi!

    • Yorazigo says:

      Probably went to spend his $20,000 (+/-, I forget exact amount) from Ohio gun organization on better guns & protective equipment — bigger & better bulletproof vest, and maybe a new tinfoil hat (aka protective helmet).

      • ladystclaire says:

        He can wear all of the bullet vest and helmets that he so chooses but, he just might run into someone who will give him one between his eyes. The SOB of a damn coward, wears a bullet proof vest to protect his thumping gizzard and, yet he put his gun to the chest of a child, Tryvon Martin and blew his little heart to pieces.

        This murdering “THUGBOAT” has no business out walking among a law abiding society. there are a lot heartless people in this country and, a lot of of them showed their hate during this case by showing their racist hate, for a deceased AA child who was bothering no one when this 28 at the time, year old moron came into his life.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Texans can be a breed unto themselves. As a black Peruvian mix, Fogen might not not be as welcome there as he thinks. Some gun nuts could well embrace him, while others might just as soon use him for target practice. Wonder if he’ll return to Seminole for SheLie’s trial …

      • I thought the very same thing. Texas is not Florida when it comes to Latinos.

        • Linda Andersen says:

          You’ve got that right!

          • cielo62 says:

            Linda- I’d say Texas hates Hispanics more than blacks so Georgie is not very safe here. Too many of his physical type down here who ARE legitimate gang members.

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • Woow! says:

            Cielo you got that right. Texas is the right place for CAC because the whites in Texas hate all Mexicans or people who look hispanic. They do not care where you are from you look Mexican you are here illegally and they hate you. CAC will get his tail handed to him here.

        • Linda Andersen says:

          Does anyone hate them as much as they hate each other?

          I believe Gladys hooked up with Robert, Sr. because he is white. In her mind, that puts her children one step up the food chain.

      • pat deadder says:

        Where is Shelie.Is she allowed to leave Florida.

        • Two sides to a story says:

          I don’t think anyone with a felony charge in any state in the union is allowed to leave their state.

    • Linda Andersen says:

      LOL! If only there was a way we could all help karma along! Fogen may have gotten off THIS time, but maybe we can all influence future outcomes of his repeated idiot behavior!

      The only guarantees in life–death, taxes, and Fogen screwing up!

    • acemayo says:

      He was not doing anything wrong and got pull over


      RetiredSpecEdTeacher11 hours ago

      In addition to disrespect toward and older gentleman, who they discover is their senior officer, there’s a total disregard for Zeigler’s credibility simply because he is an African American man. In 2009, Harvard Professor, Henry Louis Gates, who lost his house key, was arrested for breaking into his own home despite showing ID to an officer that is was his residence. Four days ago, a 60 year African American man living in Florida, who was looking for a cigarette in his mother’s car, in his own driveway was shot by police. Fortunately the wounds are listed as non life threatening. Lord have mercy!

      • Rachael says:

        See, white people, myself included, just don’t have a clue. They really don’t. But I assure you, there is not one, NOT ONE black male in ANY position, from a toilet stall cleaner right up to the president who has not experienced some form of racial prejudice, even if only WWB. I do not know a single black male of ANY station who has not experienced assumption of wrong-doing at one time or another just because they were black. And once that has happened and you know that it exists, it is not possible to unknow it. But if you are white and it has never happened and never will, it is hard to see that this happens all the time – because it never happens to you and never will. It is really easy to say, “oh, they are just imagining it,” but are they? Maybe one could say that IF they had never had the experience, but once you have…

        • pat deadder says:

          Many years ago in the late 80’s my son who was18 at the time worked a night shift fixing 18 wheelers.He had long hair,got off work around 2am,drove a black car with big tires.He was stopped every single night.He had a getto blaster on the car seat one night with his jacket thrown over it.The policeman asked what was under his jacket my son told him.He made him lift the jacket,My son far from perfect didn’t drink,smoke ,do drugs but every night he got stopped until he quit the job.My son said he got an inkling of how blacks must feel their whole lives,So in the end what a good learning experience.He has so much empathy to this day.

  29. colin black says:

    fauxmccoy says:

    August 2, 2013 at 11:51 am

    have a lovely day, my friend!

    (my family used to tease me when we visited zoos and i introduced my children to their cousins, the chimpanzees 🙂
    Oor closest relitves are chimpanzees and mbobos both very similar except in mbobos the females rule the roost an with chimpanzees males hold authority.

    Chimpanzee groups are violent and agresive fights an infantiside are common.

    Mbobos are peacefull and all about love not war the reason being in chimps ground forrageing is rare as they share space with gorrilas an they have first pickings.

    So females have to climb trees an forage far for food an don’t have time to bond and stratagise make alliances.

    Mbobos share no turf with gorillas an ground forrageing is easy so they socialise with other females an have become dominant over the males.

    They are all about making love an mate with all the adult males so no jealousy ocours an no dominant males means no fighting.

    No infantiside as each an every sexually active male thinks all babys could be theres.

    This shows us a male dominant society driven by testosterone is violent.

  30. acemayo says:

    I wish that they do a full report on the life of TM
    Why didn’t the bus driver he suppose to hit come forward

    Oh, God, oh, my God, oh, God,” one major reportedly said when first looking at Martin’s data. He realized that Martin had been suspended twice already that school year for offenses that should have gotten him arrested – once for getting caught with a burglary tool and a dozen items of female jewelry, the second time for getting caught with marijuana and a marijuana pipe.
    In each case, the case file on Martin was fudged to make the crime less serious than it was. As one detective told IA, the arrest statistics coming out of Martin’s school, Michael Krop Senior, had been “quite high,” and the detectives “needed to find some way to lower the stats.” This directive allegedly came from Hurley.
    “Chief Hurley, for the past year, has been telling his command staff to lower the arrest rates,” confirmed another high-ranking detective.
    When asked by IA whether the M-DSPD was avoiding making arrests, that detective replied, “What Chief Hurley said on the record is that he commends the officer for using his discretion. What Chief Hurley really meant is that he’s commended the officer for falsifying a police report.”
    The IA interrogators seemed stunned by what they were hearing. They asked one female detective incredulously if she were actually ordered to “falsify reports.” She answered, “Pretty much, yes.”
    Once the top brass understood that the Martin case had the potential to expose the reason for the department’s stunning drop in crime, they told the detectives “to make sure they start writing reports as is; don’t omit anything.”
    “Oh, now, the chief wants us to write reports as is,” said a Hispanic detective sarcastically, “and not omit anything, as we have been advised in the past?”
    The IA investigation delved into the paranoid concern that the M-DSPD was sharing information about Martin with other relevant police departments as it routinely did in other multi-jurisdictional cases………………….
    In a way, Jackson was right. Martin should not have been suspended. He should have been arrested on both occasions. Had he been, his parents and his teachers would have known how desperately far he had gone astray.

    Instead, Martin was “diverted” into nothing useful. Just days after his non-arrest, he was allowed to wander the streets of Sanford high and alone looking, in Zimmerman’s immortal words, “like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something.”

    At the end of the day, Martin had avoided becoming an arrest statistic, only to become a statistic of a much graver kind.

    Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/04/police-buried-trayvons-criminal-history/#b1AMMr54ohtOvyVX.99

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      I must say, acemayo, your posts are becoming more and more odd.

      I really do not know what you are trying to say.

      To help me understand, please explain your thinking without using quotations from elsewhere.

      • Romaine says:

        that’s tree house dirt from the sundancecritter’s FIOA…

      • acemayo says:

        TM could have been defending himself
        That didn’t matter MOM was busy try to prove he was a thug
        No-one saw who throw the first punch
        TM had to prove he have a right to be there
        TM had to prove he have a right to live
        People think only black people do crime period
        I wish they do an story on TM it don’t whether he is good or bad
        Just Robert Zimmerman says it would come out if the Martin’s
        do an civil suit

        Robert Zimmerman Warns that Civil Suit Against His George Zimmerman ‘Might not be very Flattering’ for Trayvon Martin’s Family
        Could a civil trial against George Zimmerman by the family of Trayvon Martin be more problematic that a benefit?
        Robert Zimmerman states that a civil suit brought against his brother George Zimmerman, in a wrongful death trial, could be very troubling to the family of Trayvon Martin and could lead to very unpleasant facts that were never a part of the criminal trial.

        • Cercando Luce says:

          VERY unpleasant facts, like Z’s arrest record, credit record, history of calling police to harass others, cousin molestation, fiancee abuse, abusive evidence on Z’s telephone, evidence that Z held Trayvon while aiming, tucking gun under TM’s button, getting his left hand out of the way– very unpleasant facts indeed that never came out at trial.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            Like I keep saying – a 29-year-old grifter has a lot more history than a 17-year-old high school kid.

    • Drew says:

      Any racist knows none of this matters.

      If someone had harrassed, stalked, and shot Ariel Castro in an argument outside of a bar or something, because they’d exchanged words, not knowing for the life of him that he was a monstrous kidnapper, the shooter would still be guilty of murder.

      • Malisha says:

        Also if anybody killed Castro KNOWING he was a rapist, kidnapper, child-molester and criminal, the shooter would still be guilty of manslaughter.

    • Girlp says:

      Acemayo maybe the reason a bus driver never came forward is because Trayvon never hit a bus driver.

      • Rachael says:

        Exactly!!! The exact same reason no black children GZ “mentored” have come forward.

        • Girlp says:

          Also it was proven that the jewelry was not stolen and a screwdriver is a screwdriver not a burglary tool.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Nettles18 – Annette – keeps harping on her blog about Trayvon swinging on the bus driver on his way to Sanford. They theorize he started riding the bus, swung on the driver, had to be picked up by Brandy Green halfway. Her group of Fogen supporters stay in close contact with OM and some got banned on CTH for not agreeing with Sundance Cracker about OM. They’re still as full of fantasies as the regulars, though.

    • cielo62 says:

      Ace mayo/ why did you post this pile of dog doo on here? This came straight from the outhouse to further damage Trayvond reputation and NONE Of this shyte is true. None.


  31. I don’t understand why the State allowed the lie that Trayvon’s body laid outside for hours uncontested! CLEARLY there are crime scene photos where Trayvon’s body had been moved! Get the tech up on the stand and explain that his body didn’t lay in grass for 3 hours and the use of paper bags on wet grass would further damage any evidence.

    I have a hard time believing this is ONLY the second case Bernie has lost…

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Good points, Thats.

      Also, of all of the pieces of clothing both gz’s and Trayvon’s, why was Trayvon’s sweatshirt the only piece not bagged in a paper bag, but instead was bagged in a plastic bag?

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Officer Smith’s wife the crime scene tech trying to mess up forensics to get husband promoted?

        • You all have thoughtful comments says:

          I wonder.

        • Two sides to a story says:

          Should be easy to determine who didn’t wrap the clothing right.

          • crazy1946 says:

            If my feeble memory serves me correctly Mz. Crime Scene Tech Smith said “she” picked up Trayvon’s clothing from the ME’s office and “re-packaged” them before taking to evidence room… There were several points that seemed to be untrue in both her and her husbands (Tim Smith) stories in court. My opinion is still that the NEN call placed after the murder was to Tim Smith, who IMO was involved in this case more deeply than as a simple police officer….. However it is unlikely that we will ever know the whole truth as to what really happened on that cool rainy night in Racist Florida….

      • aussie says:

        If you place a piece of saturated clothing into a paper bag, the bag will disintegrate. It makes sense to put it into plastic. None of the other items would have been half as wet, especially GZ’s which dried out at the police station.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          as far as i can tell (based on reading the ME report on jordan davis) the responsibility for the wet clothing being stored improperly is with the ME’s office. in jordan’s case, although his clothing was wet from blood and not rain, they were placed in a drying cabinet with a filter below to catch anything that became displaced until the clothing was dry. when clothing was dry, it and the drop filter were bagged properly.

          i don’t see how we can blame this on crime scene technician smith (as tempting as that may be) as she does not work at ME Bao’s office — this one is on Bao and his subordinates.

          (now, if i could re-locate the link for davis’ autopsy report, i’d be content. i read it in the wee hours of the morning and forgot to bookmark it.)

    • pat deadder says:

      That’s so not racist I have a hard time believing this is ONLY the second case Bernie has lost….Can we check the racial make up of the won and lost cases.Are you sure he’s only lost two cases.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I’m sure he usually tries cases in Jacksonville, and probably most aren’t high profile. Would make a difference.

  32. Xena says:

    A post verdict tribute to Trayvon Martin by Patricia Edwards.

  33. Dan Q. Smith says:

    I can’t anymore right now. I can’t look at how a rascist prosecution genecuflated to a rascist jury. My heart is broken. I admire all of you. Keep up the good fight.

    • Linda Andersen says:

      What are we doing up in the middle of the night? I know **I** don’t have a life. What’s your excuse?

      • crazy1946 says:

        If a person sleeps eight hours our to every twenty four hours in a day, that is 1/3 of their life they spend sleeping. Now at my age and knowing full well that I am running out of available hours of anticipated life, if I reduce my sleeping to four hours a day, I have a much higher projected time awake to be productive. Now there are a few pit falls to that scenario, one of which is possibly falling asleep and drowning in my cup of coffee! Or perhaps the reason that I am up is simply that I could not sleep? No, I like the first excuse better, so that’s my story and I am sticking to it like glue…

        • crazy1946 says:

          Should be “eight hours out of every twenty four….
          Must be a keyboard problem, could not be me…….zzzzzzzzzzzzz

          • Linda Andersen says:

            LOL! Every time I think I SHOULD get some shuteye, I get antsy and log on again. Guess I’ll be taking a nap tomorrow! Or is that later today….?

        • Two sides to a story says:

          LOL. I feel the same way about sleep. And drop off in my big cup of tea now and then. Or spray it on the screen!

          Sweet dreams, whenever you have them!

  34. ReadDeeply says:

    Well, it’s a start. Revealing the truth, which contrary to popular assertion is NOT impossible to arrive at, as you said, Prof. Leatherman, it’s all there, is a tremendous undertaking, largely due to the amount of lies told by gz that have to be countered and set straight.

    RJ’s letter must be taken into consideration. One sentence alone blows gz’s entire story out of the water. In it she states that Tray told her that on his way back from the 7/11 he had to cut through the apt. complex behind RTL to lose gz, who was ALREADY following him. This invalidates gz’s claim that he first saw Tray inside the gates of RTL, and forces us to consider his motives in feeling it necessary to lie about that detail. The fact that RJ’s letter was written far before the murder became of national interest underscores its genuine and honest nature. Not knowing gz was going to tell big fat lies about the route, she’d have no reason to state anything but the truth.

    So we’ve got gz NOT going to Target after all, but following the youth around for a considerable period of time before they even reach RTL. Also, Tray never says which mailbox kiosk he ducks under, and given his actual route, I believe it was the one at the adjoining complex, not the one at RTL. Exhaustive searches have never revealed to me if the mailboxes at RTL are even separate from the clubhouse or in it. If they are in it, I think Tray would have said he ducked under the clubhouse overhang, not the “mailboxes.”

    Which brings up the question of the route in general. I’ve looked long and hard at the proximity of the 7/11 to Tray’s dad’s and the rear entrance of RTL. Having been a lifelong pedestrian, I just don’t see Tray, or any “walker,” cutting through the adjoining complex, then walking all the way to the front gates. I think any pedestrian would have used the rear entrance. And I think the evidence supports this theory, in that one witness heard the movement of the chase from “left to right” and considering where Tray’s belongings were found. I think gz was coming up behind Tray fast, or cut him off, and either Tray did not want to lead him to dad’s door where Chad was or he became disoriented in the growing dark of night.

    And then there’s the “reenactment.” I believe gz did this for the sole purpose, and very possibly at the urging of SPD who challenged not one word and not one motion, of cementing the fake route and the entire lie in his head. He screws it up from the start. He basically admits that shelLie is in the car with him, as they are “every Sunday night”. Then he retracts that, and says oh, no, it was “just me.” shelLie’s presence means she could have driven him anywhere at any point, then dropped the car at the T and walked home. gz repeatedly pauses and thinks for considerable periods of time of what to come up with next. He says bizarre things like “and then I looked and there still wasn’t anything there;” who, twice, marks a location by what isn’t there? We already know his NEN call timeline doesn’t add up. If he had really gone back to his car he would have still been on the call by the time he got back, still talking once back in his seat. Not to mention that he actually admits in his first version of events that he continues to follow Tray, that is, “go in the same direction.” And wait on RVC for the policeman friend he says he called.

    By the time he starts whipping up the “fight scene,” his dialogue is peppered with a lot of blank stares and silences while he is clearly trying to think of what sounds most plausible or least incriminating. The walk-through-become-narrative is now punctuated with very telling physical displays that are supposed to portray what happened. Instead these little displays do more to portray what didn’t happen, or who actually did what. He slips and says “I put his hand over my mouth…” He slips up again, and where his jacket is supposed to have crept up from whatever they’re doing on the ground, his movements actually show him lifting the jacket up himself.

    With all that fighting and rolling around, how did the can of tea manage to stay put in the front of Tray’s hoodie? It’s just a pouch, not a proper pocket. If Tray’s hand were over gz’s mouth, why is that perfect little dot of “blood” over gz’s lip so undisturbed and precisely placed? It should have been smeared all over his mouth.

    Of course there are droves of other inconsistencies and boldfaced lies. I’ve got 9 pages of notes on Serino’s and Singleton’s original interview alone. Here I’ve just tried to highlight a few things I haven’t heard anyone else bring to light yet. I’ve got a bunch more, but this post would never end if I were to try to mention them all! I hope this little bit helps.

    Thanks, prof. Leatherman, for providing a platform by which we can come together and solidify our thoughts as well as our continuing demand for justice.

    • Linda Andersen says:

      Wow! I wish you had been on the prosecutorial team, ReadDeaply. With the addition of Norm Wolfinger and Robert Zimmerman, Sr. being old Army buddies, You connected all of the dots!

    • Xena says:

      @ReadDeeply. This might take you some time, but I’m going to suggest several Youtube channels with videos where you can see the mail kiosk and more.

      The majority of us “regulars” here discussed and examined discovery material since it was first released last year. That might be why our expectations of the prosecution’s case led to disappointment.

      Teeslaw Channel, “The Death of Trayvon Martin.” It’s a long video but worth it. It includes the clubhouse videos. He also has a great video that uses GZ’s NEN call and compares it to the re-enactment.

      Dave Knechel. It has several walk-through videos at the Retreat at Twin Lakes. At least one has Frank Taaffe taking Dave on tour.

      Sanford Watch. Along with Dave Knechel, they have videos either walking or driving from the 7-Eleven to the “T” where Trayvon was murdered.

      LLMPapa has videos that grab your attention and bring out common sense truth that will leave you breathless.

      The channel I upload to is Auntiebjw. There is a video asking “What about that address?” and it shows how GZ could claim he was going in the same direction as Trayvon, yet said to Singleton and Serino that he was on Retreat View Circle when told “We don’t need you to do that.” Very simple — GZ thought that Trayvon was headed to the back gate. As cops know, you never chase behind a “suspect” if there is a way of cutting that person off from the destination by getting ahead of them.

      • Malisha says:

        Where’s Dave Knechle? Anybody hear from him? Is he really friends with Taaffe now?

        • Xena says:


          Where’s Dave Knechle? Anybody hear from him? Is he really friends with Taaffe now?

          Here’s the link to his blog. http://marinadedave.com/

          • Two sides to a story says:

            I’m greatly disappointed in Marinade Dave’s latest article.

          • Xena says:

            @Two sides. I subscribe to Dave’s blog so generally read his new postings as soon as he uploads them. Can’t say I remember much of anything from his last post however. Dave was in court everyday, and that was during hearings as well as jury selection and trial.

            For anyone to put that much time into a case, then hear a verdict of not guilty, has to be more than general disappointment.

        • You all have thoughtful comments says:

          from Dave Knechle’s article there:

          By Sunday morning, most of the civilized world that paid attention to the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman trial knew the outcome. All that was left to do was to discuss it, but not me. I needed a break. Throughout, there were multitudes of directions each and every one of us had taken — like a hundred road intersection — converging into a massive mess of a traffic jam. Which one of us had the right of way? I don’t know. I still don’t, although a jury of six women decided for us. Yield! Move on or get run over!

          I suppose I could write a lot about the verdict, but what’s done is done. To perpetuate the story is, to me, unbearable.

          I won’t let it dog me.

          Ahh, the luxury of being white.

          Black individuals CANNOT make that choice of not letting the verdict “dogged” them.

          The dangerous implications of that “not guilty” verdict are too real for the lives of African Americans.

      • @Xena

        Very simple — GZ thought that Trayvon was headed to the back gate. As cops know, you never chase behind a “suspect” if there is a way of cutting that person off from the destination by getting ahead of them.

        How do you get over the discrepancy of DeeDee saying “he’s behind me”?

        • pat deadder says:

          already been said yes I so agree with you.How do you get over the discrepancy of DeeDee saying he;s behind me.I don’t understand this theory.

          • Xena says:

            @pat deadder.
            @already been said.

            How do you get over the discrepancy of DeeDee saying he;s behind me.

            1. Trayvon had no door keys on him. He would need for Chad to open the front door or in the alternative, use the keypad on the garage. That places Trayvon on Retreat View Circle.

            2. GZ told Singleton that when he was told “We don’t need you to do that, that he was on Retreat View Circle. GZ was expecting for Trayvon to run to the back entrance, in which case Trayvon would cross the intersection. GZ did not see Trayvon run across the intersection and said “He ran.”

            3. GZ continues walking down Retreat View Circle, knowing that Trayvon is still in the area. (Don’t want to give out his address because he doesn’t know where the kid is.)

            4. GZ sees Trayvon turn the corner from the dog path to Retreat View Circle. Trayvon also sees GZ again per Jeantel’s testimony. (Logic, the creep had followed Trayvon be vehicle. Trayvon would need to make sure there were no vehicles on Twin Trees Lane nor Retreat View Circle before he came off the dog walk.)

            5. Trayvon turns and walks back behind the house, on the dog path. GZ tells Sean the dispatcher to have the cop call him and he will tell him where he is. Trayvon looks back and there is GZ coming towards him. (He’s behind me again.)

            6. Trayvon tells Jeantel that the creepy pervert is getting closer.

            7. Trayvon has no where to run to be safe. Walking in the direction of the T is his only option.

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            Great points and video, Xena.

            As far as #5, where do you place gz?

            Coming up north on the dog path from RVC at the south end of the dog path or coming from the east part of RVC between the houses to the dog path 1 or 2 buildings down from the T?

          • Xena says:


            As far as #5, where do you place gz?

            IMO, when GZ saw Trayvon go around to the back to the dog walk, he got on Trayvon’s tail, knowing that the only way Trayvon could possibly escape was to take the “T.” GZ could not allow Trayvon to reach the T and run back towards the clubhouse because of the clubhouse video cameras.

    • aussie says:


      When Rachel’s letter first came out (quite recently, only a few months ago) the “other complex” theory was well examined. It does not fit with any of the other evidence. That letter was very brief,and Rachel had never seen the area to know how the pieces tied together.

      Hundreds of hours of detailed analysis have gone into the Clubhouse videos, where the light patterns distinctly show GZ cruising up and down searching, which he’d not do if he’d followed Trayvon from the other complex. Events shown by the lights fit exactly with the timings of the NEN call.

      There are photos of the RATL clubhouse all over the internet. The mail shed is beside the clubhouse, separated by a narrow path.

      GZ cruised through the intersection east, turned ans went west, turned and went east then turned to stop at the mailboxes, for the start of the NEN call. He then crawled behind Trayvon down TTL (the vehicle clearly visible on the video) before turning to park facing him. Trayvon then ran to the doggie path and GZ got out to run after him.


      Your comments about the Freudian slips and body language in the “re-enactment” are spot on. Had he taken the stand, he could have been cross-examined on all of them. In the civil case he’ll have to take the stand.

  35. looolooo says:

    Boo (effin) hoo alert. The Killerman family are receiving over >>400<< death threats and HOUR! (you do the math) According to Joonyah.

    I've just been banned….. again….. from UK Daily Mail for my comments earlier this week about fogen in Texas, and today for saying that Joohyah's lying, and that the Fulton/Martins have been treated worse than ANY victims of crimes in U.S. history. I was red arrowed off the site until further notice. Yet, Trayvon, his parents, Crump & Co., as well as AL, Jesse, and POTUS are allowed to be insulted and lied upon ad nauseam. Disgusting.

    • Xena says:

      How does anyone threaten them when they don’t know how to contact them?

      Is GZ receiving threats through his tinfoil hat while driving down the highway?

      Are they coming through the television like in the movie “The Ring”?

      Maybe all their own, their radios come on and a deep voice says, “I’m coming to get you.”

      Postal carriers have a special gift knowing where to deliver mail addressed to “The child killer. Anywhere USA or Peru.”

      • looolooo says:

        @Xena Damn I wish SOMEONE would call them out on their fictitious death threat lies! And every time joonyah, his (maternal mother, and adoptive father) parents, or MOM say’s this….. NO ONE ever asks them if they’ve reported them to the Police. We know that the Sanford P.D. would get right on that. Or better yet… report them to the FBI. No one EVER presses them for more details, or does ANY investigative reporting for themselves on this matter.

        And like you said, how can they be under constant threat when no one knows where they live? I pray that some one will expose these crack pots for who and what they are someday! Is there a way that WE can find out if they’re receiving credible death threats?

        That sociopathic Lilliputian needs to be stomped on by the Gulliver of Truth!

        • Xena says:

          @looolooo. There might be some letters mailed to O’Mara’s office, but anyone issuing a serious threat would not take the chance of having a post mark on the envelope.

          If anything, the threats are made by Zidiots hoping to mislead.

          GZ and his minions have been known for over a year now. If anyone wanted to off him, they would have done it.

        • Malisha says:

          Brrrrring Brrrrrrring.

          “This is Sean; do you need fire, police or ambulance?”

          Prolly all three. I heard suspicious talk.

          Where are you sir?

          Nowhere in particular. There’s this real suspicious voice…

          Is it black, white or hispanic?

          It sounds pBa-lack. And it’s real suspicious, sounds like it’s up to no good.

          OK, we can send some voice experts.

          No, I have voice experts. I know someone who worked with me on a political campaign; he heard voices in Vietnam.

          OK, what’s suspicious about the voice?

          I don’t know what its thing is. Seems like it’s high or somepin.

          OK, what is it saying?

          It’s making threats, it got real loud for a minute to try to make me deaf.

          OK let me know if it says anything else.

          Shit, it’s shutting up …

          How do you know?

          It stopped saying anything … I think it’s trying to find out if I had a problem.

          Did it say “homie”?

          I don’t remember. It’s aggressive. It probably wants to make a death threat.

          Are you listening to it?


          We don’t need you to do that.

          It’s trying not to make any noise now, like it’s trying to fall silent and just fake me out, they always do that. They stop and then I can’t hear what they’re saying any more.

          OK do you still want to register a complaint, Sir?

          Yeah. Put that down as 400 death threats.

          OK, we can do that, sure.

        • cielo62 says:

          loooooloooo~ Maybe what they mean are the anonymous death threats they receive ONLINE each and every day from people who are angry that gz got away with murder. I know that I am guilty of wishing the entire zimmerKlan painful karma each day, every day. Maybe they see THAT as a “credible death threat.” As paranoid as those scum bucket is, I wouldn’t be surprised.


    • Linda Andersen says:

      Maybe they need to go live in one of those 1960’s fallout shelters! Gawd! Remember the “Duck and Cover” drills in elementary school?! As if THAT was going to protect you from an atomic bomb!

      • looolooo says:

        I wish some one would offer the entire family an all expenses paid dream vacation to explore the jungles of Papua New Guinea.

        Meals included ;-p

        • Linda Andersen says:

          Maybe they will be bullied by an active volcano!

        • crazy1946 says:

          I was kind of thinking we could all chip in and buy the Fogdoit and his lovely family a nice hog farm in Iran. They would fit into that environment quite well….. Pigs of a feather farm together…

          • cielo62 says:

            Crazy- they don’t have hog farms in Iran. It’s an unclean animal.

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • Malisha says:

            ceilo — an unclean animal — yesh I guess that was a deliberate oversight …

          • crazy1946 says:

            cielo62, I knew that they do not have any hog farms in Iran, and the penalty for eating the flesh of a pig is death…. Now think for a moment, would that not be a fitting business for the Fogdoit and his family (of pigs?)? Now if we can just figure out a way to lure them to Iran………

          • cielo62 says:

            Crazy- sorry. I got all literal for some reason…

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • crazy1946 says:

            cielo62, My strange sense of humor some times is difficult to follow, so don’t worry about it…. 😉

    • aussie says:

      The quote I saw was 400 an hour “on social media”. In other words someone on a blog says he should die and rot in hell. They also once published a photo of some “threats” received at MOM’s office, of which the worst they could produce again just wished him dead, without in any way saying the author was going to help them achieve that status.

      You deserve to die
      I wish you were dead
      I’d kill you myself if you tried that with my kid
      I have placed a bomb in your car

      not identical levels of “threat”.

      • Malisha says:

        If you collect somebody’s hair to give to a voodoo practitioner in Mississippi you can be charged with attempted murder.

        We should sell Fogendolls for people to prick with pins! I know where I’d prick my Fogendoll!

  36. ay2z says:

    The secret is out. Why was loving, caring, non racist energy-frugal son, killer good guy fogen, speeding down the freeway??

    Only one explanation or this safety-first doo-gooder, had to be an emergency, like this.

  37. Woow! says:

    I found a few quotes is in an article on why the working poor whites always vote republican and against their own best interest that I think hit the nail on the head about who is governing our country:

    “if you want to hire someone to criticise your nation on a radio show in another nation (loyalty), give the finger to his boss (authority), or sign a piece of paper stating one’s willingness to sell his soul (sanctity), you can save a lot of money by posting a sign: “Conservatives need not apply.”

    “despite improvements in education and health nationally, Republicans have accomplished their goal of seriously setting back progress when it comes to the economic well-being of children in Republican-controlled Southern states.”

    “Conservatives think emotionally; fear makes them repeat their mistakes, seeking a feeling of security, like a horse running back to a burning stable. Ergo, they repeat mistakes out of ideology; the more they fear, the more they fail, the more they repeat.”

    “that trickle down thing isn’t even working in the Republican states.”

    “Republican State legislators have found a way to legally deny our seniors the use of their Medicare! The owners of privately owned family clinics do not accept Medicare patients.”

    “The Republican U.S. Congress and the large Republican minority in the Senate as well as the Republican governors and their state Republican legislators are writing bills and passing laws that discriminate and attack minorities. They are unwavering in their attempts to defund the social programs that all of our taxes have paid for. They are against the EPA and any type of regulations that have protected all Americans for decades. They have asked workers to give back and give back in exchange for keeping their rights to be represented by unions, but are now calling the benefits they have paid a hefty part of their paycheck for “entitlements.”

    Please get out and vote in the 2014 midterms elections.

    • Linda Andersen says:

      GZ is (or used to be) a registered Democrat, but then, so was Wyatt Earp and I’m not impressed with him either! BTW, back then, the Democrats were like the teabaggers and extreme Republicans of today. Go figure.

      • crazy1946 says:

        Linda Andersen, The myth that the Fogdoit is/was a Democrat is not quite accurate. If you will go back to the year 2007 and before, you will probably remember that the GOP encouraged it’s members to actually vote in the primaries to control who the opponent was that they faced. In 2007 the Fogdoit worked with John Donnelly, Leanne Benjamin and Joshua Parrish on the Ron Paul for President Campaign. I have been digging into the money trail of the Fogdoit defense funds, and it keeps going back, not to Sanford, but instead to Lake Mary… It seems that everyone within the defense team and witness list has some tie to that city… even the newly found attorney for juror B29 has links to the defense team thru Don West! Juror B29’s attorney who is using the current name of David M. Chico has a partner by the name of Jeff Ippoliti,, this man is IMO going to be a major lint to the source of the money… from upstate NY, has mega bucks, current and recent past is full of civil suits and such, but for some reason his past looks to have been scrubbed and it almost looks like he just fell out of the sky and into the Orlando area….

        • Malisha says:

          Wow, Crazy, your research impresses me…thank you!

          • crazy1946 says:

            Malisha, quick question, when John Donnelly testified, what did he say his occupation was? I was thinking last night that during the trial someone said he was an Physician Assistant? I don’t know why little details like this drive me up a wall, but I suppose that is a flaw on my part…… One of many……

          • Malisha says:

            Crazy, I’ll have to look that up, do not remember.
            He was one of those “old soldier never die” types.
            I could hardly stand to look at him.
            Uch, sometimes someone like that stands near me in a line and I consider getting out of line and losing my place rather than stand next to the self-righteous self-aggrandizing unctuous punctuous a55holes.

  38. ay2z says:

    A liar, a thief, and a ‘COWARD’.

    Tell me, why does the ‘family spokesperson’ still speak for the defendant when he is no longer a defendant but a free man?

    Why doesn’t this grown man coming 30 years old, need brother junior, speak for him about the traffic stop?

    Why? Is George Michael Zimmerman that much of a coward not to address the ‘masses’ himself? He can do it from an anonymous location, why does he need his slicked back hair brother to do it for him still?

    • Woow! says:

      He don’t, Robby likes being in front of the camera. Let him keep talking, eventually he is going to let something slip.

    • cielo62 says:

      ay2z~ because gz KNOWS that he IS a moron and that he SOUNDS like a moron whenever he opens his own mouth. The Hannity show is a case in point. Remember that deep sigh, and how he didn’t have time to reflect and yet he DID have time to reflect… BOTH in the same sentence??


      • fauxmccoy says:

        cielo says

        Remember that deep sigh, and how he didn’t have time to reflect and yet he DID have time to reflect… BOTH in the same sentence??

        that was unforgettable! what a numbnutted numbskull!

  39. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Sleep in peace when day is done: that’s what I mean,
    And this old world is a new world and a bold world for me…

  40. Xena says:

    George Zimmerman – a Thief Concerned about Thieves.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Magnificant, Xena!

      You documented this “hypocritical liar”! Great job!

      • Linda Andersen says:

        Holy crap! (apologies in advance)

      • Xena says:

        @yahtc. Junior seems to think that there is something in Trayvon’s past that is worst than GZ’s history of cheating lawyers, Landlord, and the court.

        • ay2z says:

          Yep, something they can keep bringing up with innuendo, something that his killer brother did not know at the time, therefore, irrelevant.

          • Xena says:

            Junior doesn’t know when GZ takes a dump and how many sheets of toilet paper he uses to wipe his azz — but his lack of knowledge does not mean it didn’t and doesn’t happen.

        • Two sides to a story says:

          😛 LOL. Anyone with half a brain knows that a 29-year-old grifter has more history than a 17-year-old high school kid. Those Fogens and their supporters think if they repeat something enough it makes it true.

    • ay2z says:

      Nice work once again, Xena!

      And he stole a life, within minutes of calling the cops to set up his defense

      b29 or whoever she was, said he went ‘above and beyond’– that description is of a good, better than average effort to gain a better than average, or even excellent, result.

      Sorry juror foreperson, taking a life was not above and beyond, by any description. Try, going outside the laws, outside the directions of NW, and going far below any standard of profiling of a criminal.

      He stole a life, he lied about it, repeated his lies and stories so often in the media by using others who were not there, enough that they became acceptable and then accepted as the truth.

      The liar also was a thief of the truth, of justice.

      • Xena says:

        @ay2z. You’re right on — GZ stole Trayvon’s life. Funny that his supporters say that had GZ wanted to harm Trayvon, he would not have called the cops. Well, he called the cops on his Landlord and the server at his (non) graduation party because he wanted to cheat them while giving the cops an excuse to make himself appear squeaky clean.

        • ay2z says:

          Frame this comment for us Xena, as the core of an i depth documentary that seeks answers to the question ‘just who is the killer of Trayvon?’.’

          That is what you have done in your video, taken to a whole new level, thinking prime time Television.

          And what the heck is this road trip about, that MOM now says truly has no particular destination? I suspect he’s playing with words and tricky meanings again, like maybe two particular destinations, he’s grifting from one to another, maybe doing a talk tour on the gun underground. But bet it’s something he’s not having to pay a night’s stay or a mean anywhere.

          He’s not hiding his identity, didn’t turn in his vehicle for something different, and he talked his way out of a ticket when he got pulled over, knowing he would be recorded.

          He’s got a scheme going again.

          • Xena says:

            @ay2z. IMO, GZ took off with the plus $20,000 given to him by Buckeye’s. He probably wanted to approach people at the gun shows to start a charity for him. Not only is GZ a liar, cheat, and thief, he is also a beggar.

          • cielo62 says:

            Buckeyes gave $12,000. Then got hacked. 🙂

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • ay2z says:

            oh, I am sure he’s up to some ‘business’ wheeling and dealing on his own promo behalf.

            “Nowhere in particular.” What a liar Mark O’Mara is.

            The gun shows must be on some sort of circuit, you’d think.

  41. LBTG says:

    How long can Sabrina & Tracy wait to file a civil suit. They can wait to have the best possible timing – JN not available for a civil suit, fogen has committed another outrageous crime, file against fogen’s estate – in the event fogen is incapacitated or not with us anymore, after NBC trial where fogen loses, after DOJ trial, after MOM & West are done with fogen.

  42. Xena says:

    During trial, the defense ambushed the prosecution by saying the Arizona can pulled down Trayvon’s hoodie, explaining the distance between the contact shot and immediate range. The prosecution could have challenged that by the fact that Trayvon’s sweatshirt underneath the hoodie did not have a pocket with anything in it to weigh it down. Since the holes in both shirts lined up, it could only mean that they were being held by GZ.

    IMO, Benjamin Crump should get the video of Adam Pollock on Dr. Drew’s program. Pollock did not testify at trial that GZ thanked him for teaching him how to “shrimp.” On Dr. Drew, Pollock said that GZ said that shrimping saved his life by removing his head off the concrete. If that is true, then GZ was under no threat of great bodily harm or death when he killed Trayvon.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Oh, my gosh, Xena I never thought about that possible challenge. You are SOoooo right!

      I only was only thinking, “Why, why, why didn’t BDLR take careful time to detail the grabbing of the shirts the way LLMPapa did in his video.

      • Xena says:

        @yahtc. I have no proof, but suspect that during some of those sidebars that Judge Nelson reminded the attorneys that she had a sequestered jury and wanted them to finish trial ASAP. Of course, that didn’t stop West from going around the same mountain for hours repeating himself.

  43. Marion Spotford says:

    Thanks for your research. I am a family member of Trayvon, I sat in that courtroom and thought I would hear what really happen the night of 2/26/12. I knew that what the defense was stating was not true. None of GZ DNA on TM impossible. Thanks Again

    • bettykath says:

      Marion, There are some on this site who have done some great research. See Professor Leatherman’s notes above. See LLMPapa’s videos, especially the ones challenging Kraft (or whatever his name is) on the alignment of the holes in Trayvon’s shirts vs the one in his body. A civil suit with a good prosecutor type could put together the kind of story that would be irrefutable by any defense and understandable to any jury.

      Rachel Jeantel’s testimony is important and could be seen as important if the closing argument built her up rather than dismiss her as BDLR did.

      One point not mentioned in awhile is the trail of items that got lost along the way that ran from the south to the north, suggesting that the altercation didn’t begin at the T.

    • Linda Andersen says:

      Marion, having lived in both Tampa and Manassas (Prince William County, not Manassas City) I took an interest in this trial from the start. When the NEN 911 calls started, I HEARD George say, “F**king coons.” Then the media started backtracking and insisted that he said “goons, or punks, or it’s f**king cold out.”

      • Linda Andersen says:

        I never bought it, but as soon as I heard his father speak, with his Southern Drawl, I thought, “I KNEW IT!!! He said COONS and you’re the one he learned it from!”

      • Malisha says:

        Remember one of the Outhousers even said there were traffic cones lying around and they were all in the wrong place and Fogen had complained but nothing was done and he was exasperated, saying, “fucking cones.”

        I laughed and said there were some people from Planet Beldor there, and Fogen had really said, “Fucking Cone-heads.”

  44. Mary Davis says:

    @ KittySP. For our own sanity, lets just leave this POS alone and let him hang himself.

    • crazy1946 says:

      Mary Davis, Can we at least furnish the rope and a chair? 😉

      • pat deadder says:

        crazy1946 Can we at least furnish the rope and the chair.Going into my book of funnies from this blog.I wonder if there’s a way I can put them here somehow.I’m not computer savy.They are priceless and they relieved the stress.I was getting up at 430 am to read the blog till I had to go to work in a daze and I’m past retirement age.Finally am making a meal,cutting grass,and all those silly chores that don’t go away.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @pat deadder

          i’ve said it before, that i would love to see this collection. if you have a gmail account (or create one) it would be very easy to upload and share on their ‘google drives’ feature. if that is more bother than you wish to take on, i would be willing to upload and share for you if you wanted to email your book of funnies. let me know if i can help!

          • pat deadder says:

            fauxmccoy Oh my goodness What I will do is ask my son to decifer what you just wrote here and I really hope this can be done.That is so nice of you.Only people here will get some thngs but I will try to add some context if necessary.This is all hand written about 30 pages.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            sounds like a plan — just let me know if i can help 🙂

  45. KittySP says:

    I have so many mixed feelings about the killing, and the trial…there’s more than enough blame to go around beginning with GZ, investigation, and others involved. I take solace in knowing that God in Heaven knows all about what happened that dreadful night and whats in the hearts and minds of those intimately involved with any cover up, or what have you. He will deal with each and every one accordingly! There’s a scene from the movie Man On Fire that keeps stirring in my spirit…and I know that vengeance is The Lord’s, but the words spoken in the movie seem fitting.

    Lisa: What are you gonna do?

    Creasy: What I do best. I’m gonna kill ’em. Anyone that was involved. Anybody who profited from it. Anybody who opens their eyes at me.

    Lisa: [Whispering] You kill ‘me all.

  46. Mary Davis says:

    @ Professor. I need to apologize to you and Searchingmind. When the verdict was read I was so angry I lashed out. I blamed you and Searchingmind for not monitoring this blog. (like that would have made a difference in the verdict). Please accept my apology.

    We all saw how the trial was going, but we just couldn’t or wouldn’t believe it. Now it is so hard to accept, and at the same time, it’s too late to do anything about it.

    But we can certainty keep a watchful eye on the Dunn case, so that this never happens again. This case is in Florida, and we now know what to expect.

    I know how Malisha feels. She worked so hard writing all those letters. I hope she has enough energy to tackle the Dunn case.
    I don’t know exactly what we can do, but I believe we can make a difference. At least, we can keep the Dunn trial at the forefront.

    I haven’t donated lately, but will soon.

    • Linda Andersen says:

      Mary, I’m with you. There are times I’ve inserted my foot in my mouth only to regret it later. I doubt that anyone here holds it against you.

      • Linda Andersen says:

        I’ve often considered abandoning this blog because it sometimes feels rather cliquish.

        But, as Groucho Marx said, “I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member.”

        • Mary Davis says:

          @ Linda. LOL. I think this trial has taken a toll on all of us. We have been together for well over a year. We knew the evidence was strong enough to convict fogen, but when we realized they were just going through the motions, well, it was just too much.

          I’ve also considered leaving this blog for the same reasons you stated, but for some reason we have become a family. Sometimes a dysfunctional family, but a family all the same.

        • cielo62 says:

          Linda- aww, Linda! Give us a try! Remember that many folks have been on here for months on end and we’ve gotten to know each other. Butt in and make friends. 🙂


        • Linda Andersen says:

          I’m not going anywhere! I’m just stubborn enough to stick around and annoy the heck out of anyone who doesn’t like it!

  47. MDH says:

    I have often thought that this scene from Easy Rider sums up the mind of a Fox viewer nicely.

  48. renosweeney says:

    How about the fact that they apparently never bothered to try to analyze the BACKGROUND SOUNDS in the NEN call.

    That’s fine if someone wants to argue that the sounds may have turned out to be inconclusive.

    But to have not even TRIED???

    There are at LEAST very definitive spots where you can hear the truck being put into/out of gear, when the truck is moving etc… so that a VERY precise time line could’ve been developed. (And proving that he lied about Trayvon circling his Truck)

    Not to mention that some believe there’s a quite obvious sound of the gun being chamber checked.

    I also believe you can hear the glove box being opened seconds before he jumps out of the truck to follow Trayvon.

    After George’s speeding warning, we now know that George keeps his gun in the glove compartment.

    How do you have the BLESSING of that NEN call and not have it gone through with a fine tooth comb???

    • Jasmine says:

      They never cared. From the beginning they never gave Trayvon one single, solitary thought. And for me, that helps me know why they failed Trayvon and his family. They never cared one iota about him. Just another dead black male. Useless, up to no good, black male. They figured that he would never amount to anything anyway. Isn’t that what we all see and hear from the Fogen lover’s?
      I am really, really ashamed of this country. I have felt that way before but now I can admit it.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        I know what you mean. I have been reciting the Pledge of Allegiance for 50 years, and am so ashamed of 1) the disgusting effect of the pre-trial propaganda and its effects on the media-commenting public, and 2) the disgusting result of the trial. “With liberty, and justice for all” now has the metallic taste that follows a hard blow to the head.

        I hear the boy’s voice break on that 911 tape, his voice silenced forever at the gunshot. I even hear “Get off!” right at the beginning. From the first time I heard it I felt like I had to do something, and could not believe the tsunami of hate against the victim, that goes on and on, with hundreds of people locked onto media sites to make sure no one who speaks out for the victim goes unassailed. To this day!

        This summer I visited Philadelphia’s Constitution Hall, and even the tour guide inserted a gentle comment into his memorized speech about due process, something like “but it sometimes doesn’t turn out that way.” This was the day after the verdict, addressed to an all-white group.

        Does no one care? A brown-skinned adolescent, the treasure of his family, helpless against an armed stalker’s evil intentions, screaming for help and mercy– native-born, law abiding, but the law and law enforcement officers do not protect him. I am ashamed, too.

        • cielo62 says:

          Cercando Luce~ Sadly, I agree with you. Great shame. Like I said many times afterwards, This Is NOT MY America!


  49. You all have thoughtful comments says:

  50. kllypyn says:

    The prosecution did not properly cross examine that guy who testiified about gravity causing the descrepancy between a contact shot and an intermdiate range shot.Because that was bullcrap.

    They did not go into the fact that there was L shaped tearing on trayvon’s shirts,which shows the shirts were stretched when the bullet tore into them. they did not go into the fact that the holes in trayvon’s shirts were 4 inches higher than the hole in his chest,which can not be explained away by gravity. Those shirts were pulled down and away from trayvon’s chest when he was shot.

    These taken together show Trayvon was trying to back away and escape when he was killed.which would explain the panicked nature of his screams. Although it may not have made a difference because the evidence i just mentioned was available for the jury to read and they chose not to bother with it. they should never had let the defense to continue to flash an obviously doctored photo,zimmerman had no horizontal cuts on the back of his head. that ridicous animation should never have been allowed because it was bsed on lies which were already disproven by the evidence. I don’t know what the judge was thinking.

    Jon good was not so good he is a liar and a perjurer,i believe he saw than he’s telling he let a kid get killed.Jenna is also a liar and a perjurer.She and jeremy saw or know more than they are tellinbg. Jeremy saw more than he is telling they have no morals or decency.If they did they would havce told what they know and saw. jon could not have seen what he claims he saw in the dark inj just 10 seconds. a porch light doesn’t give oput enough light for that. There are no street lighgts behind those houses. it was almost pitch black except for those porch lights.

    They heard a kid screaming and crying and chose to ly about what they saw epecially Jenna and Jeremy. they should have told the police a man was holding a kid at gun point even in the dark you can tell when someones arm is out stretched like they are pointing something at someone.what worse no one made any attempt to provide first aid to a kid lying face down despite the fasct they came out just seconds after the shot was fired.Instead some of them got into a converation about what kind of bullets were used.They disgust me.

    I have come to the conclusion the the prosecution was not interested in a conviction they were more concerned about protecting a corrupt police department.they were supposed to speak for the victim a barely 17 year old minor.They heard trayvon’s last screams and they know it was not Zimmerman but they apparently didn’t care. Yet these same people would have vigarously prosecuted any member of trayvon’s family if they had taken the law into their own hands and hunted zimmerman down and killed him themselves.instead they di the “right thing”and let the law handle it.A lot of good that did. But of course we are not supposed to take the law into our own hands. Yeah right.

  51. Woow! says:

    I read on the other post yesterday that CAC father was paying his rent? Why? He was a grown married man with an able bodied wife.

    Character flaws, woow.

  52. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    “Song response to George Zimmerman – Trayvon Martin trial”

  53. Mary Davis says:

    Fogen must know that there are a lot of people who would like to make money and a name for themselves off his murder.

    Oh, please forgive me. This is just wishful thinking.

  54. Mary Davis says:

    If fogen had any sense he would keep a low profile.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      He’s a real nowhere Man,
      Sitting in his Nowhere Land,
      Making all his nowhere plans
      For nobody.

    • a2nite says:

      But he doesn’t because he’s evil.

    • Linda Andersen says:

      He doesn’t, because he’s a media whore. Possibly the best we can hope for is that one day he’ll hang himself with his own rope.

    • Trained Observer says:

      But Fogen has no sense whatsoever. It’s a safe bet he’ll be jailed again, and again, and again, until he’s put away for good.

  55. Mary Davis says:

    Yea, the bold and the restless. It’s like he can’t live a quiet life.

    And that bullshit about him being in fear for his life. As quiet as it’s kept, I believe he should be in fear for his life. He’ll never know if there is another nut lurking around, up to no good. And I am not talking about another AA, but maybe his own kind, white.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      I think he is in a state of paranoia that makes him dangerous.

    • crazy1946 says:

      Mary Davis, The Fogdoit is so stupid he thinks that people gave money to him for his defense fund because of who he is. Little does he realize that they gave it only because of their cherished SYG law. If there is one thing a racist hates worse than a person who’s skin is not white, it is a half-breed. The Fogdoit will meet his destiny and karma will come from one of those racist friends that supported him…….

  56. Girlp says:

    I will not be surprised if the next person GZ kills will be someone very close to him.

  57. Woow! says:

    Florida is a free-for all mess. Mark O’Mara’s lost his mind- still making up things about Zimmerman, post case.

    The ‘Stand Your Ground’ Task Force set-up by Rick Scott is comprised of government officials, citizens and activists (NRA). What does he expect the task force to accomplish when they are working against common sense laws.

    Michael Dunn is crying the scary shotgun toting teen with gang banger friends had him in fear of his life.

    1. Dunn had just left a wedding so there is a possibility of him being drunk.
    2. He decided he was going to chastise a car full of black boys for their loud music but the boys sassed him. Those boys forgot it is against the law to sass a white man.
    3. The white man was so shocked that those boys had the nerve to tell him to GFH that he went to his car and pull out a loaded weapon emptying the clip.
    4. How can I (Dunn) get a fair trial when they have posted my face on every news site and black site. It is unfair that they are showing Jordan as innocent and murdered by an “evil” white man while I am portrayed as Hitler.
    5. I need MOM to defend me. He will let the public know that the scary shot gun wielding teens were no angles and I had no choice to shoot to kill or they would have gone and gotten their gang banging friends to kill me. You know that is why I had to flee the area. I had no idea when the gang bangers would show up.

  58. Woow! says:

    George Zimmerman is another Sarah Palin … dumb ignorant person that will or has made millions from people dumb like they are. Just as her star fell, so will his.

    He will make money giving speeches at Klan rally’s and NRA events but that will be the extent of it.

    Someone need to catch Robby and beat the snot out of his little racist ass. He is a bold one. That is what’s wrong with that family, bold and thing they are untouchable.

    • a2nite says:

      Evil Sarah didn’t murder anyone as far as I know. She’s hpjust a stupid evil tool. GZ us a menace to society because of his violent tendencies. She’s just a bigoted evil blowhard.

  59. Judy75201 says:

    Lady2 is absolutely right about the dashcam vid of fogen in Forney,Texas. Somethings not right about this alleged incident.

    But then again, something’s not right about every single gotdamned thing that asshole touches.

    • Woow! says:

      Don’t worry Judy….. he will do something that his friends and family will not be able to protect him. He is cocky and laughing that he got away with murder.

      Karma is a MF and he will get his.

  60. Mary Davis says:

    @ Woow. All blacks should be licensed to carry. As soon as you become of age you should apply. How else are AA’s going to survive in states like Florida with the laws such as they are.

    • Woow! says:

      So true but a haven’t you heard, self defense does not apply to black men.

      My son shot a a guy high on meth in the leg who tried to car jack him (witnesses + video from store) and he is facing 2nd degree attempted murder charges. Oh and the ADA called him a menance to society even after the would be carjacker said he was not pressing charges and spoke on my child’s behalf.

    • type1juve says:

      Mary, I agree. We will not see significant change in these SYG laws until the laws affect white people in an adverse way. Blacks need to arm themselves or get the hell out of states like Florida. At this point it’s a matter of survival.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Florida is so scary.

  61. Woow! says:

    It would surprise me if the DOJ found anything in their investigation. If they do I will be the first to admit that I was wrong.

    This case is the perfect opportunity for the feds to clean house and rid the local police department of the KKK in Seminole county. Will they do it? No. Why? They have no backbone and the NRA is lobbying to keep anything from happening.

    Just today the NRA is lobbying to have the age lowered to 18 to purchase a gun.

  62. Susan says:

    Professor, I recommend you add to the list the evidence that GZ’s gun could not possibly have been seen or drawn while lying on his back–with or without someone straddling him. His claim that he was on his back is what really caught the attention of my weapons/self-defense expert right from the start; immediately he exclaimed to me, “that’s impossible, he’s lying”. (He convinced me after we went through seemingly countless scenarios of what it takes to see and draw a weapon worn holstered inside the waistband on the back hip–with or without a jacket on). His hypothesis is that Zimmerman drew the weapon early on to try to detain Trayvon and take him back towards Zimmerman’s truck, that Trayvon naturally struggled with Zimmerman for control of the weapon, and that the blood-curdling scream toward the end was the sound of Trayvon realizing he had lost that struggle. We’ve been over it every-which-way perhaps a hundred times, and that is really the only sensible and plausible explanation of what happened that night.

    I’d like to see the feds offer Zimmerman immunity–and go after the Sanford police department–so that Zimmerman has to testify. Man, I would love to serve Zimmerman with interrogatories, requests to admit, document requests, and absolutely love to take his deposition–all while he has no basis for asserting a fifth amendment right against self-incrimination. And I’d love to take the deposition of Osterman, so he can try to explain, inter alia, just how he trained Zimmerman to do the impossible. Let the truth finally come out….

  63. Dee says:


    He was caught speeding, and they didn’t give him a ticket because the cop knew who he was an all of them seem to be trying to protect him for some strange reason. Anyone else would have
    gotten a speeding ticket. You can hear Zimmerman saying to do you
    know who I am. And the police says to relax it okay, just relax, and
    he doesn’t give him a ticket, seems like favor to me.

    Why are these cops in agreement in watching over Zimmerman, could it be because they are afraid of taking their shot to kill, their SYG law off of the books or what.

  64. cielo62 says:

    This week, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit upheld New Jersey’s reasonable restrictions on public gun carrying. The Court agreed with the Brady Center’s brief that the Second Amendment does not entitle people to carry guns in public places.

    This is the fourth federal appeals court to reject the extremist corporate gun lobby’s outrageous assertion that concealed-carry vigilantes know what’s best when it comes to keeping America safe.

    Thanks to this victory, self-appointed peacekeepers like George Zimmerman have no Constitutional right to carry a loaded gun in the streets of Newark or Atlantic City.

    The citizens of New Jersey should sleep easier tonight knowing public safety comes first in their communities. But our opponents aren’t done. The extremist corporate gun lobby has launched a cross-country assault on sensible gun laws like nothing we’ve ever seen, spending millions in a coordinated attempt to rewrite the U.S. Constitution.

    If you think that’s wrong — and if you believe in an America that puts your fundamental right to live first — then stand with the Brady Center’s Legal Action Project and make a tax-deductible gift today.

    We’re in an epic battle to defend sensible gun laws nationwide. In cases from Hawaii and Illinois to New York, Connecticut and Washington, D.C., our Legal Action Project is fighting the extremists who want to rewrite the Constitution and dismantle our inalienable right to public safety.

    Winning each of these courtroom fights is crucial, and we’re counting on your support.

    Learn more about this important victory and take a look at our docket. Then make your most generous gift to help provide the critical resources we need to keep winning in courtrooms across the country.

    Jonathan E. Lowy, Director
    Legal Action Project
    Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence

    • Woow! says:

      I still can’t believe folks were allow to protest near the white house and political rally’s with assault rifles and other loaded weapons. If the POTUS was anyone other than Obama that never would have happened.

      NJ should be happy but we need to get more vocal to beat the NRA.

  65. crazy1946 says:

    I have mixed feeling about a civil suit filed in Seminole County. I know the feeling that something must be done about the Fogdoit is strong and difficult to control. However with the unknown possibility that a biased judge in the county might allow MOM to argue a SYG defense successfully (contrary to how the law reads, but what the heck, it’s Florida and laws are fluid when applied to black people!), it would not only be a defeat, but would be devastating financially when the court awards damages to the Fogdoit… I know the evidence is there to win the case were Trayvons parents white, but you would still have to face a judge that is biased and a jury that historically seems to position them selves in a racist fashion… At what point do you simply accept that justice will not be served in Seminole County, Florida? Again, I would probably go for a suit, however we are not the ones to make the decision…..

    • colin black says:

      m o m cant say or argue diddly squat he is a criminal/divorce lawer not a civil littigatter.

      An considering he isn’t getting paid by foggage.

      Why waste his time an money defending a civil suite that his client win lose or draw will not pay him a penny.

      Besides he will lose an not only will he be unable to settle with Trayvons Parents.

      He certainly wont pay his lawers .

      Last time he won 16 grand for some litigation against a former employee he gave his council whom won his case nothing.

      He is an entitled sort whom not only thinks the world owes him a living.

      He thinks people should work for him for free

      An be gratefull for the privalige.

      • crazy1946 says:

        Colin Black, MOM stated some time ago that he would represent the Fogdoit in the ensuing civil suit’s! He also stated before the trial started that he would hold the SYG immunity hearing after the verdict was given in the criminal trial….

  66. Yorazigo says:

    I’m thinking it might be advantageous to file a civil lawsuit from the standpoint that during the process more evidence to support civil rights violation or hate crime likely would come out during such a trial to support federal indictment. My concern would be getting a fair jury due to the bias in Seminole County, as we have already seen.

    I can’t begin to express how angry this whole case makes me and how badly I feel for Sybrina and Tracy!

    • Mary Davis says:

      @ Yorazigo. If the Martin’s are gonna file anything in Seminole County, we can forget about a positive outcome. I have absolutely no confidence in that county.

      I will understand completely if the Martin’s decide not to file.

      I believe something awful is gonna happen to everyone that was involved in this terrible injustice.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Someone a few days ago asked if a Martin family civil suit could be filed elsewhere, and I don’t recall seeing any response or debate on that possibility.

        Since Trayvon’s legal residence was in Miami/Dade, would filing a civil suit there over his death be possible?

        • cielo62 says:

          TO- the professor said it can only be filed where the action occurred; ie Seminole County.


          • Trained Observer says:

            Yes, thanks … just saw that a few minutes after posting. Such a pity it has to be in Seminole. …

  67. Dee says:

    Frederick Leatherman what can we do to get this man put behind bars. Will they open a case since the evidence was not properly investigated? The blood flow pattern on Zimmerman head was not even investigated. Blood does flow upward toward his ears. If he was on the bottom when he began to bleed the blood wouldn’t have flowed toward his ears. Can’t the fed open the case based on the evidence not properly exposed in court by the State?

    • Jasmine says:

      I am still trying to figure out the blood flow.Fogen bleeds on command. While Trayvon was ‘grounding and pounding’ and banging his head, fogen had complete control. Only when he stood up did he command himself to bleed. What a powerful man right?
      I tell you common sense had nothing to do with the investigation at all. Common sense would tell you that fogen would have been dead if his head had been bashed into the concrete 20-30 times. He has a steel skull.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      At one point, one of the prosecutors mentioned the blood flow and then never went back over the point the way he said he would.

  68. Mary Davis says:

    @ bettykath. I agree with you about the Martins maybe should just go for the civil lawsuit opposed to depending on the DOJ suit. The trial has left me drained and I feel so empty inside. We can imagine how Trayvon’s family must feel. I wonder if they actually have what it takes to go through another trial like this first one.

    I understand that Sabina is fighting for the rights of all children, but what a price to pay.

    I still can’t wrap my head around what happened before, during and after the trial. It all seems so unreal. Even so, when you know what you know, what you know, what you know, it’s hard to let go.

    • Dee says:

      I agree totally, I cannot get this trial out of my head. So much was not brought to the attention of the jury. They showed them a video of Trayvon hitting Zimmerman with his left hand when Trayvon was right handed. They knew this and still showed the jury a animation based on a lie, and they want you to tell the truth in court.what kind of mess is that. They showed a animations that the court knew was based on a lie. Don’t let them put us back to sleep over this, because this is what this case was all about, just to appease the black community, it was not to get Zimmerman put in prison. Zimmerman family has connections with the justice system this is why Zimmerman gets away with all that he does.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      I hear you, Mary.

      I have been thinking about you and wondering how you have been doing.


      • Mary Davis says:

        @ YAHTC. I am doing ok. Thank you for your concern. I have not been posting lately however, I have been signing every petition I can get my hands on. I’m just trying to deal with this injustice. It is such a low blow. Hope everything is ok with you as well.

        We have to hold our heads up high and keep the faith.

        *hugs back at ya”

        • You all have thoughtful comments says:

          I have been signing petitions also.

          I went to a rally at a federal building near us…….there were only a dozen people who showed up. I hope that there were more at the other federal buildings in our state.

          I had a good conversation with one of the ladies at the rally…in the middle of it, she asked if I would speak this fall to a group she belongs to about white privilege because, as she said, they need to hear it from a white person.

          I will tell you more about that 100-cities-rally Saturday later.

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            Oh, and you are right, we have to trust and keep the faith.

            Glad you are doing okay, Mary.

          • Mary Davis says:

            @ YAHTC. Good for you, and good luck on your speaking engagement. You have been diligently addressing white privilege for some time now. I think it is going to pay off.

            Whatever happens, don’t give up.
            I’m right there in your corner.

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            Thanks, Mary.

            I appreciate your support. I will hold it in my heart for strength.

  69. bettykath says:

    If the 2 years is from the date of Trayvon’s murder, Sybrina and Tracy should just move on the civil suit and forget about what the feds are doing. If they win their civil suit, is there any reason why the feds can’t still indict when that suit is over?

  70. bettykath says:

    I think the civil lawsuit would be more effective than one from the feds. While the feds could put him in jail for a long time, the civil suit could keep him from benefiting financially from his notoriety. I also suspect that the feds will wait until the two years have run out before they make their decision to not file. I think Crump, et.al. need to have the paperwork ready to file on the last day.

  71. Three Dog Night and the Tennessee Symphony Orchestra
    “Just an Old Fashioned Love Song”

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Love it and with a full orchestra!

      Thanks Crane!

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I attended this performance in 1970 at UCLA’s Pauley Pavillon where Frank Zappa and the L.A. Philharmonic Orchestra played together under the direction of Zubin Mehta:

        • You all have thoughtful comments says:

          It was bizarre.

        • Elijah says:

          Top 5 fave FZ Songs:
          1. Dinah Mo Hum
          2. Why does it hurt when I pee.
          3. Catholic Girls
          4. Jewish Princess
          5. Montand and/or Broken hearts are for assholes.

          Pardon my digression but who could resist.

        • You all have thoughtful comments says:

          I know……I always liked folk singing during that time…..Joan Baez, Dylan, Judy Collins, etc.

          Not the noisy music.

        • Dave says:

          Thanks YAHYC! I was there too! I’ll be watching this tonight. “Zubin and the Jets”!

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            You are welcome. Someone I knew then had obtained the tickets and invited me. I never quite understood the concert but thought it was nice that Zubin Mehta was reaching out with his classical orchestra to meet the new music halfway.

  72. colin black says:

    Boyd says:

    August 2, 2013 at 10:09 am

    Fogen told the truth with a few exceptions, he was reaching for his gun and not his cell phone.

    He approached Martin not the other way around.

    The kid was defending himself not the other way around.

    I said a long long time ago he is a very good liar. A required survival skill in life for failures.
    He is not a good liar .
    Fluent in BS does not a good liar make a good liar is not discovered ,

    His lies an contradictions are so obvious its embarasseing and insulting to whom ever he is recounting thease impossible nonsence senarios..

    He has no social skills or lieing skills hasent the nouse for either.

    He is almost feral at his base instinct having never been held accountable for his inadiquicys.

    His family for whatever reason have always circled the wagons whenever he fucks up.

    So he has never had to develop decent ettiqute or social skills.

    Never had to lean to lie with panache an make his lies more plausible then fact.

    He can blurt out any old claptrap as he knows his family will back him up an bail him out.

    He has never had to hustle an live of his wits otherwise he would have died a decade or so ago.

    A prolific liar is not a good liar.

    Skilled liars are never detected thats how good they are foggages lies are not only detected instantly he telegraphes them so before the even hit your eardrums.

    You no there comeing.

  73. willisnewton says:

    The unfinished forensics that I am concerned about are the forensics surrounding the clubhouse videos. They prove that GZ has no credibility regarding his statements concerning his movements and work towards showing the car-to-pedestrian chase that caused the teen to run off the roadway in fear.

    • bettykath says:

      I found the clubhouse videos hard to follow. While they show what fogen might have done, there are too many questions about what other vehicles were in the area at the time. There need be no proof of other vehicles, just the unanswered question. I think they would add an element of confusion that isn’t necessary.

      • willisnewton says:

        Yet there is only ONE car in the vicinity at the time of the NEN call recording, bettykath. While I agree that the videos are confusing and dim, tests should have been conducted to sort out the light events to show what each signifies.

        Bloggers spent hundreds of hours examining the videos and many many conclusions can be drawn from them, including a close but not exact sync point to show the the timing of the NEN call in relation to the only car in the vicinity, a car that trolls the mail kiosk and then drives down to the dog walk corner before doubling back to face the mail kiosk. This car position also matches the mark GZ made on a map for Singleton, before crossing it out to relate the story of TM doubling back from the T area to circle his vehicle. This story is completely impossible to reconcile with the NEN call recording.

        However, if you put TM “near the clubhouse now” and/or under the “mail thing” aka mail kiosk as Rachel Jeantel recalled, and you put GZ where the ONLY CAR in the vicinity seems to be, and place it right where GZ marked the map before amending it, then not only does the NEN call recording suddenly align with what’s possible, it shows that GZ also chased the teen with his moving car once the teen had the temerity to walk past him. He moved it right around the time he says “these axxholes always get away” and FORENSICS shows this is the most likely occurrence and it shows it IMO beyond a reasonable doubt.

        By watching the videos to the end, and comparing the logs of arrivals of the first responders, it’s possible to synch the events on the clubhouse videos almost exactly.

        The State / FDLE failed to do the work that may have led to a conviction IMO but the timing of the car-to-pedestrain chase can be worked out without using the clubhouse videos at all. If you don’t like them, don’t look at them. Look at the map GZ drew for singleton, grab a stopwatch and listen to the NEN call.

        Rachel Jeantel’s recollections and the clubhouse videos merely support the logic, they are not necessary to prove it. GZ doubled back to face the mail kiosk, and then followed the teen after Trayvon walked past his car on his way home. GZ then crept after him, causing the teen to run off the roadway when he reached the cut thru sidewalk. Tragically he also probably stopped running when he phone rang again – about the tim he would have reached the back yard of John Good.

        • bettykath says:

          I’m not suggesting that the work done by those analyzing the videos is incorrect. It was a lot of work, very meticulously done. Excellent work.

          However, I’ve watched the videos and the only way I see half of what is claimed, is b/c I want to believe it. Some claim fogen was skulking with his face in the window plain as day. Well, I’ve been to that frame, plus and minus, and I just don’t see it.

          In order to be effective, it would need an extremely articulate person so explain what’s in the videos in such a way that it could withstand a cross examination that essentially calls it an active imagination. The jurors would have to see and understand what’s in the videos before the cross examination. I’m not sure that’s possible.

          • bettykath says:

            Do you want the jurors arguing about what they see in hard to see videos or do you want them agreeing that, regardless of some of the details, fogen profiled, stalked, and murdered, and how much is the life of a child worth?

          • KittySP says:

            Bettykath, I had same difficulties viewing the vids

          • pat deadder says:

            Bettykath I saw fogen skulking with his face and body reflection in the window.It took me a long time but once I saw him it is so plain.His reflection is on the right side of the door..Truly it is very quick but obvious.I was elated when I finally saw it because I was beginning to think they were crazy or I was stupid.I even posted here a long time ago that I saw it as I was so excited to have this evidence in the trial.What bullshit that turned out to be.

          • Claire says:

            Yeah I saw his face too. He actually got out of the car.

      • willisnewton says:

        It’s a little late for convincing a jury, sadly. Unless you are speaking about a civil suit but if that happens it would be in Seminole country again, and likely another bad jury. But I agree that the “light events” on the videos are confusing and the solution would be to conduct proper tests to show what happens when a car does x, y or z.

        And as I’ve said, the proof is there with a stopwatch and the map GZ drew when compared to the NEN call recording and his lying statements of where he claimed to be, which are impossible to reconcile.

        It’s important to note that Rachel Jeantel was never asked specifically about the events surrounding Trayvon’s initial run. She seems to be talking credibly about the car to pedestrian chase on several occasions but never to anyone who put all the puzzle pieces together.

        • pat deadder says:

          willisnewton And fogen told Singleton in the first interview he walked through the dogwalk.The place where the murder took place is known as the dogwalk not the one from TTL to RTVC.Only whonoze agreed with me but it slipped out more than once.By the next interview with Serino fogan changed the story because I’m sure his idiot friend Ostrich or whatever the frig his name is told fogen he better get a better story.

  74. Stormwatch says:

    I have no doubt that the injuries to Zimmerman’s face were caused when his gun kicked back. West touched on the “ton of recoil” in his opening. I also do not believe that Ben Crump would be the best way to go with respect to a wrongful death claim.

    • bettykath says:

      There are lawyers who are experienced in wrongful death lawsuits who would do a better job. One or two of them might be willing to take this on.

    • me says:

      I agree. No disrespect to Crump but I hope Sybrina and Tracy take those other lawyers up on their offer to rep her in a civil suit!

    • roderick2012 says:

      It won’t matter because the civil trial has to be held in Seminole County so the verdict will be the same criminal trial.

      • Tzar says:

        that’s ok they should do it anyway

        • roderick2012 says:


          They need to heal and not worry about satisfying us just because we want to see Piglet roast on the witness stand.

          It’s has to be devestating to lose a child period, but having to fight to find out what happened to your son only to have it turn into a circus has to make any parent insane.

  75. acemayo says:

    Don’t White People Kill Each Other, Too?
    And yet we keep hearing about black-on-black crime because it fits the false media narrative.

    What Will, Steele and O’Reilly failed to mention is the exacting truth that white Americans are just as likely to be killed by other whites. According to Justice Department statistics (pdf), 84 percent of white people killed every year are killed by other whites.
    truth? As the largest racial group, whites commit the majority of crimes in America. In particular, whites are responsible for the vast majority of violent crimes. With respect to aggravated assault, whites led blacks 2-1 in arrests; in forcible-rape cases, whites led all racial and ethnic groups by more than 2-1. And in larceny theft, whites led blacks, again, more than 2-1.
    Given this mathematical truth, would anyone encourage African Americans to begin shooting suspicious white males in their neighborhoods for fear that they’ll be raped, assaulted or murdered? Perhaps George Zimmerman’s defenders should answer that question. If African Americans were to act as irrationally as Zimmerman did, would any rationale suffice to avoid arrest?
    And why is no consideration given to the fact that Trayvon Martin, and millions of black boys and girls like him, harbor a reasonably founded fear of whites but are hardly ever provided the deference and dignity that victimhood affords?
    The term “black on black” crime is a destructive, racialized colloquialism that perpetuates an idea that blacks are somehow more prone to violence. This is untrue and fully verifiable by FBI, DOJ and census (pdf) data. Yet the fallacy is so fixed that even African Americans have come to believe i

  76. Two sides to a story says:

    Tweeted and FB’d – blog post & petition.

  77. fauxmccoy says:

    change.org petition from tracy and sybrina to all governors of SYG states .. please sign


    • Deborah Moore says:

      Signed, sealed delivered.
      Thank you, Faux.
      I’m off to the LA Zoo in a few, with my youngest who’s 19. Picnic packed, including Animal Crackers. (Gosh, I miss the time when all three of my children were around for summer day trips.)
      Hope the terrorists will avoid terrorizing the animals today.
      Mad love and hugs to all here. Keep fighting the good fight.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        have a lovely day, my friend!

        (my family used to tease me when we visited zoos and i introduced my children to their cousins, the chimpanzees 🙂 )

        • Deborah Moore says:

          Ha. Sonny went to the zoo just a couple of weeks ago, but spent the entire time at the Ape exhibit to make a report for his anthropology summer class.
          He say’s there’s a pretty neat and huge elephant exhibit. I’m planning on staying in the shade and slowing my thoughts and heart beats down to a mellow level.
          (Oh, and the camera battery is a’chargin’. Yep.)

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @deborah moore

            you’d be surprised (or maybe not) at the amount of study i had to devote to our furrier primate cousins to get that anthro degree. i hope your son is enjoying it 🙂

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Oh, great zoo. Have fun!

        • Deborah Moore says:

          Thanks Two Sides,.
          I’ll see the two sides of the story today. Those inside the cages and those of us outside, except for those who choose to stay inside the cages of hate, denial and woo woo.
          How can something so simple remain so complicated?

      • cielo62 says:

        Deborah~ In THIS heat? All the animals will be taking naps! Which is what I intend to do in a few minutes here myself…


      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

    • Girlp says:


    • Tzar says:

      though I don’t like the law and would like to see it changed, I don’t think it is why Zimmerman is a free person today (Technically, Trayvon had SYG on his side). We can blame good ole fashion racism for that. when they have a petition to stop racism I will sign that too.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        amen, brother!

      • gblock says:

        I think that there are some peculiarities of the Florida law that may have helped Fogen along. For instance, if self-defense is claimed, the prosecution has the burden of proof in showing that self-defense does not reasonably apply. In most other states, the law is not the same.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @gblock — i consider that, combined with a 6 person jury to be a big damn deal. i don’t see any way that change can be effected, however, outside of the republican held state house.

        • mmedved123 says:

          49 states require prosecution to disprove self-defense, if it is introduced into the case, beyond reasonable doubt. One state (Ohio) only requires “preponderance of evidence”.

  78. fauxmccoy says:


  79. Forgive me for my lost faith in our courts, but I have a feeling that if a civil case goes before Judge Nelson, she will dismiss it, even if the entire encounter is presented on videotape. And the Court of Appeals will back her.

    Sorry for the pessimism, but that’s kind of my sad take, at this point.

  80. ChrisNY~Laurie says:

    So, Fogen was pulled over in Northern Texas for speeding. Too bad he didn’t get pulled over with his gun in a State that doesn’t allow it. And why in the hell didn’t this officer give him a ticket?? This guy gets away with everything.

  81. Elijah says:

    “He walked on without resting. He had a terrible longing for some distraction, but he did not know what to do, what to attempt. A new overwhelming sensation was gaining more and more mastery over him every moment; this was an immeasurable, almost physical, repulsion for everything surrounding him, an obstinate, malignant feeling of hatred. All who met him were loathsome to him – he loathed their faces, their movements, their gestures. If anyone had addressed him, he felt that he might have spat at him or bitten him… .” Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

    • Thank you so much for posting this, as it has been on my mind a lot lately. Spot on.

      • Elijah says:

        Your welcome and thank you Crane. Raskolnikov is GZ in many ways. As pathetic as evil. *”however that guilt that torments him after he murders Alyona Ivanovna and Lizaveta and his recurring faintness at the mention of the murders serve as proof to him that he is not made of the same stuff as a true “superman” such as Napoleon. Though he grapples with the decision to confes he seems gradually to accept the reality of his mediocrity, he remains convinced that the murder of the pawnbroker was justified.” Raskolnikov is our guide. Next up “Proust”…


        • Thing is, the character in the book had enough conscience to be tormented….

          Whereas the character we are speaking of grins, giggles, and voices no remorse whatsoever.

        • Two sides to a story says:

          Great stuff.

        • Malisha says:

          You’re making me crave a madeleine! :mrgreen:

          • Elijah says:

            “When from a long-distant past nothing subsists, after the people are dead, after the things are broken and scattered, still, alone, more fragile, but with more vitality, more unsubstantial, more persistent, more faithful, the smell and taste of things remain poised a long time, like souls, ready to remind us, waiting and hoping for their moment, amid the ruins of all the rest; and bear unfaltering, in the tiny and almost impalpable drop of their essence, the vast structure of recollection. Swann’s Way, M. Proust

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            And yet, time might be vertical.

  82. commenting says:

    and VERY VERY IMPORTANT……JOHN GOODE CLAIMED THAT TRAYVON DID NOT RESPOND when he yelled out to them that he is calling 911…omara claimed that gz ignored john good and kept on beating gz…….

    first of all john goode was out for about 10 seconds…and he had to figure out what was out there within that short time….did he expect someone IMMEDIATELY to look back when they are in the middle of a struggle?? when they are probably trying to restrain someone?….i believe that Trayvon thought that john would eventually come out unto the grass….

    but trayvon was relieved that someone said something sot he felt confident enough to retreat….he probably looked back or slowly turning his head in the direction that he heard john gooode, while retreating….gz got an opportunity to get his gun and shot him

  83. commenting says:

    and who looks down when a suspicions who looks like they are on drugs suddenly appears in the darkness and is walking towards them……who the hell does that????

    and please listen to the serino and singleton interview….gz claimed that after Trayvon saw the gun he reached for it…but gz go it first… SO TRAYVON DECIDED TO BANG gz’s HEAD ON THE GRASS ONE LAST TIME…realllyyy?????? how dumb was Trayvon???? Trayvon never saw that gun until it was too late

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      No one would look down.

      The kel tec that gz had is known to get snagged in clothing when being pulled from a concealed holster by an inexperienced person.

    • Drew says:

      Like I said, if I’m bashing someone’s head in trying to kill them -and because I’m such a savage black beast, I’m doing it, jus’ killin’ a whitey with my bare hands! – and then they aim a gun at me, I will also bash their arm/hand/gun into the ground as well, and continue killing them, not just keep bashing the head, waiting to get shot.

      Story is 100% false. Only racists and lazy colorblindness peddlers believe a bit of it.

  84. lurker says:

    Also should hit on the location of supposed head bumps. Side/front/top of head not consistent with prone ‘head-bashing.’

  85. commenting says:

    yes…i think guy suggested that if Trayvon punched gz at T it was because he probably saw gz reaching into his pocket, probably thinking he was reaching for a weapon…….so he was justified in doing so

    that is bullsheeet……i do not think gz ever reached into his pocket it is all a fabrication….because the series of events he describes after he allegedly got sucker punched does not indicate that Trayvon was worried about a possibly weapon…..

    if Trayvon was worried about a possibly weapon wouldn’t he have tried to retrieve it when gz claimed that Trayvon straddled him???? gz claimed that while Trayvon was smothering him he looked back and saw his weapon because his shirt was lifted……

    second of all lets say that Trayvon sucker punched gz at the T because he was mad he was being followed…the series of events that gz explained which took place after that still makes no sense……
    so Trayvon just stood there and waited for a dazed and disoriented gz to push him 40 ft forward…..maybe Trayvon was very considerate, he wanted gz to regain his strength before starting to fight him again….
    gz was never sucker punched at the T, his testimony proves that…..his bullshiit story makes no sense, he got a blow to the face at the area where they both fell to the ground

    • Boyd says:

      Fogen told the truth with a few exceptions, he was reaching for his gun and not his cell phone.

      He approached Martin not the other way around.

      The kid was defending himself not the other way around.

      I said a long long time ago he is a very good liar. A required survival skill in life for failures.

      • Boyd says:

        or super rich businessmen

      • commenting says:

        well if he was reaching for a gun…Trayvon did not see that..cause that sucker punch at the T makes no sense when you listen too the series of events that took place after according to gz…the punCh at the T DOES NOT ADD UP…..

        therefore i do not believe gz reached for his gun at the T…if you believe he did that , you are saying that Trayvon punched him preventing him form retrieving the gun,…so it means that Trayvon was aware that e had a weapon, but he was not worried about retrieving it??, he decided to retreat knowing thAt gz had a gun on him??? MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE

        gz simply fabricated a story to explain why Trayvon got in a better position in the fight…..so he had to come up with that SUCKER PUNCH KRAP… i was SUCKER PUNCHED… i was disoriented i fell down and he immediately straddled me

        • Malisha says:

          If you punch a guy and he falls on his ass, you don’t get on top of him where he can do something to you; you kick him hard in the head, stomp on him, and then kick him hard in the balls.

          REMEMBER THAT!

      • commenting says:

        GZ HELD ON THE A FLASHLIGHT , A flashlight that he could have used to defend himself if he was sucker punched at the T…..and what prevented gz from retrieving his gun after the alleged sucker punch??….

        if i was sucker punch while i was reaching for my gun…i would not get into a shoving fight…i would try to get my gun again instead of pushing the person in my disoriented state…i would probably throw that flashlight down to get my gun..or use that flashlight to hit the person then rich for my gun again….

        again that suckerpunch story at the T makes no sense…….gz had to come up with another ridiculous story saying that he did not remember he had a gun till Trayvon reached for it…because he knew his story makes no sense

        how d you not remember you have a gun when you claim that the suspicious person was putting their hand in their waist band wile you were in your vehicle …when you were asked what you were thinking at that moment you claim you thought he was bluffing…meaning that he was pretending to have a gun to intimidate you

      • Mojo says:

        Also, GZ was the one that said “Shut the fuck up” and “You’re gonna die tonight motherfucker.” He was also the one that was putting his hands over Travyon’s mouth and nose. Just look at his reenactment. He doesn’t show it from his alleged POV. He would demonstrate the hands coming at him and pushing on his face. Instead he demonstrates with him shoving his hands down, from the perps POV.

      • MichelleO says:

        I DON’T THINK this is a case of him being a “good” liar. This is a case of ingrained racism in that particular part of the United States. His local police station helped him; the police chief helped him; his father’s connections helped him, and the fact that he has a male relative in a powerful position on the police force in Florida, helped him. The NRA/ALEC subsidized him and paid all of his legal and personal expenses.

    • kllypyn says:

      trayvon never saw the gun until it was pointed at him. the gun was on GZ’s gun was on right rear hip. trayvon would never have seen it the way he described.

    • pat deadder says:

      commenting says If Trayvon punched fogen at the T it was probably because he saw fogen reaching into his pocket. That is bullsheet I agee because Rachael was still on the phone with Trayvon along with all the evidence you declared.

  86. acemayo says:

    This time no drugs, no guns, no gang about the black teens in
    the Michael dunn case but for some the teens was still wrong

    It’s obvious what happened here. Mr. Dunn is the real victim and Jordan Davis is guilty of causing his own death. He had no right to sass a white man, In the south. That used to be a capital offense. If the authorities couldn’t find a gun in the car, that only proves Obama was involved. Yeah, that’s the ticket. Obama sent Eric Holder to Florida to conceal the evidence. Get over it, people! What about the black on black violence in Chicago!
    Last Week
    · Reply

    Read more: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/state/jordan-davis-update-michael-dunn-charged-with-first-degree-murder-trial-scheduled-for-september-23#ixzz2ap2OIJRx

    • roderick2012 says:

      @ace, methinks that Mark was being sarcastic!!

    • Malisha says:

      “sassing a white man in the south”

      Wow, white men in the south are so soft! If you even “sass” them they cry like little girls and kill you with their big guns.

      Who needs them? Nature should get rid of them.

      • bettykath says:

        This is exactly the reason my acquaintance in Fl said was the reason that Trayvon was killed, justifiably.

        • elcymoo says:

          If I recall correctly, former Police Chief Bill Lee made some comment to the media not long after Trayvon’s death that he could see where the teenager might have ‘mouthed off’ or ‘gotten mouthy’ with GZ. I’m paraphrasing, not quoting directly, because I don’t want to spend the time going back to look up the article.

          • Malisha says:

            It was “mouthed off.” He said if both Fogen and Trayvon could have thought, in retrospect, about what they did that night, Fogen wouldn’t want to do what HE did again (?) and Trayvon also wouldn’t have wanted to do what HE did again either. He said he realized both of them would have changed what they did if they could get a do-over.

            And I thought, when I heard that, “Yeah. If Trayvon had a do-over I’d say, get ahold of a gun.”

  87. aussie says:

    Guys have a look at this

    from the previous blog. Lady2Soothe’s watched the whole police video and believes it was a setup.

    They may need to look at that cop for more than just photographing the licence with his iPhone.

    • bettykath says:

      I’m not so sure it was a setup, although considering it’s fogen, it might be. There may have been a radar trap setup and fogen was signaled to pull over, so he did. A concealed carry permit is not required in TX for a gun in the car although it seems that if you have a CCP, you’re supposed to say so to a cop. It’s part of the training.

      • fauxmccoy says:


        i will confirm that if you are carrying, it is the first thing that you should tell LE if either pulled over or stopped as a pedestrian. it is what you are trained to do so that they know up front and know how to proceed. having them find it later, without the gun owner stating so up front makes the situation far more dangerous. the florida CCW permit is accepted as valid in texas and every state in between – i don’t see how any laws were broken in this as much as i would like to find something (anything!) wrong with this particular individual’s actions.

      • aussie says:

        Who signalled him? why does a cop cruising on the highway have to stop to deal with him? don’t the radar guys normally sit there themselves to handle their catches?

        • bettykath says:

          I’ve spent a considerable amount of time on the interstate highways in several states. It’s not all that unusual to see a radar setup with several marked cars either there, or a short way down the highway. It’s a coordinated event with several cops and several cars, not a lone cop cruising.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            In parts of Cali you’ll see three or four marked cars working together in areas where a lot of speeding takes place on interstates.

      • cielo62 says:

        bettykath~ if you don’t have a conceal/carry permit in Texas, you may transport a gun BUT it must be in plain view. gz had his in the glove box. Supposedly he does have a ccp (I’m still not convinced) so he mentioned it to the cop who didn’t even bother to verify it.


      • lady2soothe says:


        <blockquote.There may have been a radar trap setup and fogen was signaled to pull over, so he did.

        Why do you think the Officer accelerated to such a high rate of speed in such a short time *if* GZ had already been pulled over by the Radar set-up team?

        I can’t imagine why the Officer would need to *floor it* if GZ had been identified and directed to wait along side of the road.

    • lady2soothe says:


      Thank you for re-posting my comment.

  88. Endless Summer says:

    Professor, I read through Florida’s Wrongful Death Act. The Martin/Fulton family only has a 2 year period in which to bring a wrongful death suit. I could not see anything in the act that specified where the suit must be filed. Can the Martin/Fulton family file suit in Miami? If so, they would be assured a jury with more diversity than they found in Seminole County.

    We haven’t heard anything else about the immunity hearing that MO’M says he wants to have. Do you think they may wait to see if a suit is filed before they ask for the hearing? I’m afraid that a Seminole County judge may grant it.

    I was wondering why the Martin/Fulton family had not yet filed a civil suit. Do you think that waiting until the statute of limitations is almost up is a good tactic? At first I thought that it might be, because as fogen’s star fades, his supporters will stop sending in the cash and he won’t be able to afford those fancy lawyers. But then I thought, it gives him time to work a book deal, and it appears he may be getting ready to make paid appearances for the NRA and at gun shows.

    I loved the Greg Palast column you linked to and hope that the Martin/Fulton family will read that and take it to heart. I also hope that the Crump legal team will have less hubris than the prosecution team and pay attention to leads that are sent to them.

    • They can’t file in Miami

      Here’s your answer.

      47.011 Where actions may be begun.–Actions shall be brought only in the county where the defendant resides, where the cause of action accrued, or where the property in litigation is located. This section shall not apply to actions against nonresidents.

      That would be Seminole County.

    • roderick2012 says:

      It wasn’t arrogance or incompetence that did in the prosecution, the State threw the case plain and simple.

      They had over a year to put the pieces of what occurred that night together and they didn’t want to expend the time or effort because winning a conviction against Piglet wasn’t politically expedient for their boss Gov. Rick Scott.

      • DruDo says:

        When my now adult son was 4 yrs. old, he did a damned sight better job of “prosecuting” his brother for the crayon drawings on his bedroom wall than the prosecution did in fogen’s trial. BDLR simply didn’t seem to care and it was glaringly obvious and horribly disappointing, to say the least. One day, Z will put himself in a situation he won’t slither away from.

    • groans says:

      Regarding Florida’s wrongful death law, I recall Ben Crump pointing out that there is NO STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS for wrongful death resulting from murder. So I went looking for where that might be written, and I found the Fla. Statutes 95.11(10) (quoted below).

      I haven’t found any case law on this yet, but I did find a short article on a lawyer’s web site that’s informative (assuming it’s accurate) – so I’ll post a link to that following this reply.

      95.11 Limitations other than for the recovery of real property.— Actions other than for recovery of real property shall be commenced as follows:

      (10) For Intentional Torts Resulting from Acts Described in s. 782.04 [murder] or s. 782.07 [manslaughter].— Notwithstanding paragraph (4)(d) [wrongful death], an action for wrongful death seeking damages authorized under s. 768.21 brought against a natural person for an intentional tort resulting in death from acts described in s. 782.04 or s. 782.07 may be commenced at any time. This subsection shall not be construed to require an arrest, the filing of formal criminal charges, or a conviction for a violation of s. 782.04 or s. 782.07 as a condition for filing a civil action.

      Source: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0000-0099/0095/Sections/0095.11.html

  89. You all have thoughtful comments says:

  90. aussie says:

    For wrongful death, the fine details of the last minute are not too important. For the trial they were, but they really messed them up.

    For wrongful death, it goes back to the 5 minutes of stalking, crawling beside the victim by car, chasing him on foot. Had GZ not done that, they’d never have met up 40 ft down the doggie path for the death to happen, regardless of who “started” it.

    And yes he DID go down that path to continue searching for Trayvon. The location of the body proves it. GZ claims he only walked along the top path (on the “search for the address”) and no way Trayvon DRAGGED him down the path from there. Especially without him even dropping his big flashlight. The only way he could have gotten that far down the path was on his OWN TWO FEET from his OWN VOLITION.

    The forensics show Trayvon did NOT attack GZ. At most he may have swung at him once with the plastic bag containing the drink. But even if he had, after being stalked like that it would have been a legitimate SYG situation.

    Whatever way the “fight” happened, it ended up with Trayvon dead. That became possible ONLY because GZ followed and searched for him. That is wrongful death and it was GZ’s doing.

    It would be useful to have two actors with white clothing on which the blood and DNA spots are clearly marked. They’d act out various possible physical situations until one is found that accounts for ALL the spots. The sleeve ones in particular.

    Flashlight reminds me. B37 said the small keychain/light being near the T proved to her that the attack started there. Interesting — this was never said in court, the light was just one of a set of evidence photos, and significantly GZ HIMSELF NEVER said a word about that light. Interesting attention to glossed-over detail from someone who never even reads the news.

    • endlessummer76 says:

      Great comment & I love your idea about the white clothing.

    • type1juve says:

      Good catch on the flashlight.

    • Drew says:

      I’ve looked far worse than GZ after fights and I never had to shoot anyone. He looks like he fell into a bush, or got into a shoving match while playing sports.

      Maybe he’s just *SO* soft that the punches and vicious bashing bounced off of him.

    • elcymoo says:

      O’Mara did tell the jury to pay attention to that small flashlight, because it was ‘key’ (to GZ’s version of where the fight started, anyway). Nobody ever aked the jury during closing arguments or rebuttal to pay attention to where Trayvon’s cell phone and GZ’s tactical flashlight ended up, as far as I recall.

  91. acemayo says:

    This should have never made the news, they need to leave this man alone and let him live his life. The media has destroyed GZ’s life enough already. Why don’t they concentrate on how Obama is destroying this country instead of messing with a innocent man?

    If GZ’s was not speeding the police would have not pull him over
    This innocent man was breaking the law by speeding
    Tell me how Obama is destroying this country

    • Innocent?

      You’re joking, right?

      “Not Guilty,” according to a jury with at least one stealth juror who committed perjury to get on the jury.

      NG and innocent are not the same thing.

      • aussie says:

        That seems to be a quote from somewhere, wish Acemayo would say where from. The last two lines seem to be a reply to the first paragraph, I assume Acemayo’s reply.

        • You all have thoughtful comments says:

          I am sure you are right, aussie.

          I, myself, have never figured out how to bring my own words out of a blocquote without them being included in the italics. I have had to state my own words first and then end and use the blocquote for the quotation.

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            Even if acemayo had succeeded in getting his/her statement out of italics, quotation marks around the word “innocent” would have helped our interpretation of the point being made.

          • aussie says:

            One of the reasons I just use ordinary quotes “….with a few ellipses….”

            In theory, whatever the code is for the block quote you have to close it with a slash so if the code is
            you close it with

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            Let’s see if this works<blockquote/


          • fauxmccoy says:


            close but no cigar

            you typed ” Let’s see if this works<blockquote/


            the closing quote code was mistyped and should read

            (without the spaces)
            and should be placed at the end of the portion you are quoting (i was unsure if you placed it in the right spot.

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:




          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            Once more


          • fauxmccoy says:


            excellent! problem solved 🙂 happy quoting!

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:



          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            So it is </ before the closing word blockquote.

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            😆 😆 😆

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            Thanks, fauxmccoy.

            I really appreciate your help!!

          • Malisha says:

            At the end of the blockquote you put in the same thing that you put in at the beginning of the blockquote but add one stroke:

            for the beginning you go

            At the end you go

            The slash-mark signals wordpress to END the blockquote

          • aussie says:

            And all the fake samples it didn’t print.

            Anyway to open ANYthing you go with some code in between and to close it you go

        • acemayo says:

          Here where I was getting this infro
          It seem like GZ got bad media and some people don’t like
          As Said before if he was not speeding the police would have not stop him

          Terry Millspaw · Top Commenter
          I’ll agree that contacting the media is not something that should have happened, but who’s saying the police contacted the media? I haven’t seen how or why this story was brought to the attention of the media, but it could have been as simple as someone in a newsroom listening to a police scanner, or reading the daily police crime reports, or hearing a rumor from someone from the police, and then simply filing a FOIR for the video. Remember, it took a couple of days after he got pulled over for the story to become “news”.

          But if policy allows for the sending of photographs to supervisors for further instruction, and if that’s what this was, then people are getting fired up for no reason. I’m just not jumping on either bandwagon until there’s more information provided…

        • lsimon3321 says:

          I thought I saw that paragraph on the Daily Grind on Aug 2, regarding the officer getting in trouble for taking an iPhone photo of GMurder’s license and texting it to someone(s).

          • lsimon3321 says:

            global grind :-}

          • cielo62 says:

            ISimon~ DO TELL! I think that cop deserves a serious reprimand on his record, if nothing else. He let a “celebrity” get away with speeding, and NOT paying a very hefty fine. I believe that cop had a hard-on for gz.


          • Malisha says:

            Cielo, I agree.

            The cop should have taken a picture of his own hard-on and sent it to Anthony Weiner.

          • cielo62 says:

            Malisha~ LOL!


    • William Walton says:

      Where the Hell are you coming From?

    • Mojo says:

      This is the same kind of shit all Zidiots push out. Notice they always like to deflect blame elsewhere, blame that has nothing to do with why FatAss murdered an innocent kid

  92. cielo62 says:

    >^..^< There's too much unfinished business in this travesty. The biggest one is that a murdering psychopath is still loose. I will rejoice when that part is taken care of, one way or another.

  93. Big Willie says:

    Matthew 20:16

    So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

  94. MDH says:

    How else would two punctuate wounds be inflicted to the tip of GZ’s nose such that the blood flow is consistent with him having an upright body posture?

    This would also explain why there is no blood on Trayvon’s hands or smearing of blood on GZ’s face that would be expected from the pressing of hands to close the mouth and nose.

    Another forensics point.

    GZ had DNA on his right sleeve and the side/back of his left shoulder.

    Could that be blow back from the bullet entering Trayvon?

    If GZ is pulling on the hem of Trayvon’s hoodie with his left hand, then his shoulder will pronate due to reactive force. So blood mist blowing back would vent in a direction opposite the shot angle. The right sleeve would get some blood because the kick back of the gun raises the right forearm.

    I thing all the forensics perfectly matches LLMPapa’s video wherein GZ shoots Trayvon from a standing position with the right hand over the left.

    Keep in mind that a civil suite is preponderance of the evidence and the theory we have been working out here has no, none, nada inconsistent comparisons with evidence vs. the GZ story that has holes like Swiss Cheese.

    • roderick2012 says:

      In a previous thread you observed that there was grass on the tips of George’s shoes in those police photos which prove that George fell on top of Trayvon because he was still holding onto Trayvon’s shirt when he fired the shot and since the bullet didn’t exit Trayvon’s body all of the momentum of the bullet was imparted on Trayvon’s body.

      Did anyone else notice that there was no grass on the back of George’s shoes or on his jeans although he claimed to have shimmied on the grass while on his back?

      IIRC, there is video of George scraping the tips of his shoes against a brick wall at the police station attempting to remove the grass stains.

      • IIRC, there is video of George scraping the tips of his shoes against a brick wall at the police station attempting to remove the grass stains.

        From reviewing the photographs taken at the station house, I recall seeing the grass stains on the toes of his boots and nothing on the heels.

        I do not recall anything about a video in which GZ is scraping the tips of his boots against a brick wall.

        If such a video exists, it would be significant evidence of a guilty mind, as well as a basis to charge him with tampering with evidence. It could be used in a federal hate crime prosecution and/or in a civil suit for wrongful death.

        • Sam Harris says:

          I don’t recall see in grass stains on Trayvon’s knees either. If he was on top like GZ claims and J Good claims, then wouldn’t there be grass stains on Trayvon’s knees?

        • racerrodig says:

          Actually in the video of him getting out of the police car he backs up to the wall and puts the sole of his boot against the wall. As I recall he then does the same with his other boot as well. Whether he did this intentionally, we’ll never know, but he did just that factually.

          This video was released and taken as the “..he has no injuries…” video.

      • MDH says:

        If someone is pulling hard to get away from you as you have a grip on their shirt, there can be a tendency to drag toes till you regain footing. Could that be the cause of the grass on GZ’s boots?

        I have looked at this struggle from the point of view of a tug of war where T was trying to break free.

        I give little credence to the gym owners testimony.

        In a tug of war, GZ is clearly bigger and stronger. Anybody who goes to a gym, and is honest, knows that “fat boys” are strong.

        Being buff is all about vanity.

        GZ had a gun and had hold of his prey. Trayvon had a right to try to break free by any means he could.

        • roderick2012 says:

          Maybe George did drag his feet while he was attempting to restrain Trayvon and Trayvon was attempting to break free but I believe the grass on the toes of his boots are from falling on top of Trayvon. The grass was wet from the rain that night and it could have been mowed recently.

          “Being buff is all about vanity.”

          True. The only way to get buff is cardio and diet (bodybuilders), but powerlifters concentrate on strength and mass and most have guts because their diet is about about consuming lots of calories and don’t worry about the fat content in their food.

          • MDH says:

            Quite possible and far more likely than any Zimmerbot scenario. Which is all that preponderance of the evidence requires.

            Z should have been guilty in a criminal trial, but the jury equated reasonable as anything one can imagine or pull out of their ass.

            MMA fighters are thick and buff because the cardio required to fight is off of the charts.

            Trayvon was just a lean, skinny kid whose hormones were outracing the food he could eat.

            So the gym owner was floating a big lie equating muscle definition with strength.

      • Malisha says:

        LLMPapa’s videos should all be used as guidance to the plaintiffs in the civil action. Also the timelines and videos produced by our other brilliant videographers.

    • Drew says:

      None of the forensics matters if the jury is racist.

      Anyone who saw GZ pics after the fight knew he was in a minor scuffle (if that!) that DID NOT have to end in death. He didn’t shoot because he “had to” – only in his depraved mind – but because he wanted to.

      • Malisha says:

        There was no point in the struggle where Fogen was “getting the worst of it.” That is provable by the evidence. There was no point in the entire transaction where Trayvon was the aggressor. That is provable by the evidence. The prosecution bungled everything and pulled its punches at every stage along the way and STILL proved, in spite of their efforts to “throw the case,” that beyond a reasonable doubt Fogen was guilty of Manslaughter in having deliberately done something that caused the death. The reason Fogen got off was that B-37 and/or other like-minded racist jurors bullied the rest of the jury to acquit. It was jury nullification and it means only that in Florida, you can’t convict a white man of killing a Black man if the white man is very much like most of his neighbors.

        A civil trial does not have to prove the same things. The prosecution (plaintiffs’ attorneys) in a civil trial will not pull their punches. The only problem will be serving Fogen because he will use all his efforts to avoid and evade service. A civil rights action against him together with SPD and together with Wolfinger and other defendants would, however, net some different results. Proving that HOA members complained about Fogen BEFORE THE MURDER will be the key to suing these people because they set up Trayvon Martin to be killed while he was still alive and his civil rights were being violated.

    • Dee says:

      Zimmerman self-inflicted these the wound on his nose himself, when he hit himself across the nose with the butt of his own gun. That is why he has a cut on his nose that happened from the metal clip that was inserted in the butt of his gun. Furthermore, the wounds on Zimmerman head the one-inch wound was also self-inflicted. The picture shows that the blood flow pattern was going toward his ears in the picture. Gravity doesn’t pull up it draws down. So if Zimmerman was on his back the blood pattern would have shown the blood being pooled to the center of his head, as well as being smeared from moving back and forth.

      The prosecution did not investigated any of this information as many times as the blood head picture was shown in court. They did not show that Zimmerman was on top of Trayvon holding on to his shirt when he shot him. This is why the shirt was 3-4” away from Trayvon body, because his shirt was in Zimmerman hand when he grabbed Trayvon and pulled him to the ground as he was screaming and hallowing for someone to help him. Trayvon was swung down to the ground by his shirt falling face up. I guarantee you that the hold in his chest did not line up with the holds in his shirt, but that was not talked about either. After Zimmerman shot him in the chest is when Trayvon grabbed his chest turning onto his stomach were he then died. I am not an investigated and you can see clearly what happened. to Trayvon.

      Trayvon never laid a hand on Zimmerman except for tackling him to the ground doing the first in counter with Zimmerman holding a gun up to him, when Zimmerman was trying to restrain Trayvon for no reason. Just as If they measured the clip against the wound on his head, I am sure they would have seen that this was a self-inflicted wound. Zimmerman had to make it look as though he was getting beaten up. However, he’s not going to get away for too long. Because he knows he got away with it once, and he will try it again, or train someone else what they need to do to get away with murder. This case was just to appease the black community. It was never to show Zimmerman’s guilt in this murder.

      These cops are staining on his side for a reason, because they
      knew him and was wanting to help him from getting in trouble for killing someone that they felt live wasn’t worth living mainly because he was black and they thought he was a hoodlum.

      • Drew says:

        I think they wanted him to go free so that their shoddy, negligent, and criminal police work wouldn’t be further scrutinized.

        Do you believe GZ to be innocent?

        “Aw gee, yeah, he was just defending his life against a brutal attack from a savage high schooler, that’s why we let him go that night and collected zero legit evidence other than iPhone photos of George.”

        To them, his going free and “not guilty” is rationalization that they did no wrong that night, even though in reality they did no right.

        • Cercando Luce says:

          “other than COPIES OF iPhone photos…”

          • MichelleO says:

            I BELIEVE they were working in concert with the NRA and ALEC. The NRA is pretty big in Florida. All of that money given to the murderer and his family comes from big money, most likely the NRA.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      So sorry but, I am unable to believe that the prosecution missed or did not realize the significance of any of the evidence we saw. They had interns watching the net, while they worked the case with highly experienced investigators, more skilled then ourselves and well aware of Florida law.

      No, they purposefully failed! Asserting Trayvon’s rights would have made it impossible for gz to succeed. A non criminal teen, simply walking home, finds himself followed by a weird acting stranger, first by truck and then on foot, gives Trayvon the same rights that any child followed by a stranger would have. The prosecution knows this and knows it well. Since this is the precursor to the many abductions that are reported year after year.

      The child is instructed to resist and fight in any way they can, and even gz knows that!

      This was a clear case of Murder 2 boarding on Murder 1. If one wants to realize that, gz’s ordinary knowledge of law should have told him he needed to identify himself, which he never did, you have to realize that he was intent on committing a murder from the very start, he left home with the intention of committing a killing that night. He would definitely not have wanted to merely capture and hold anyone, since that would leave a witness who could controvert his story. Only by concluding with a murder, could he hope to gain the notoriety he wanted and the uncontested sale of his story.

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