A tale of two psychopaths: Castro and Zimmerman

Thursday, August 1, 2013

Good evening to all of our friends:

Ariel Castro was sentenced today in Cleveland to life without possibility of parole, plus 1,000 years, a $100,000 fine, and court costs.

He will never be released from prison.

Crane and I liveblogged the 4.5 hour sentencing hearing via livestream. If you missed it, please go here.

Michelle Knight spoke at the sentencing and you can watch her here.

Amanda Berry, her young daughter and Gena de Jesus, the other three victims did not attend the hearing. Family members spoke for them.

Castro’s full statement to the court is here.

He denied being a monster or a violent man and insisted that they were a family and harmony prevailed.

About as fine an example of a psychopath denying responsibility for and minimizing his criminal conduct as you are likely to find.

Which brings me to another man without a conscience, George Zimmerman.

Unlike Ariel Castro, who will never be released from prison, Zimmerman is out and about packing a gun and was last seen in Texas where he was stopped for speeding and warned not to load his gun and to put it away in his glove compartment.

He didn’t get a ticket.

Ohio law enforcement did its job in Cleveland. The Sanford Police Department in Sanford did not.

These two cases offer a great illustration of the difference between honest cops who knew what they were doing and corrupt cops who knowingly and intentionally freed a remorseless killer just because he killed a black kid.

Finally, I was pleased to see two defense attorneys who did the right thing. As Crane just said, Mark O’Mara probably would have put the victims on trial claiming they were responsible because they were whores and they wanted to be enslaved.

What’s on your mind tonight?


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154 Responses to A tale of two psychopaths: Castro and Zimmerman

  1. Lee Ann Duke says:

    Hello, I am a lurker, LOL…. Just wanted to point something out…. George was not pulled over. I watched the whole video on a local D/FW tv station…yes, I’m a North Texan. You never see the officer directly behind the truck until the officer pulls onto the shoulder and pulls behind the already parked truck with it’s flashers on. I find it odd how comfortable the officer was with being told the driver had a weapon. There has been recent officer shootings in the metro area and I am having a hard time with this officer’s comfort level. Also. you never see George’s face. So how are we to know it was him? Forney police are notorious with a not very popular police chief. That’s why the warning instead of a citation just doesn’t sound legit for Forney police. So I question the legitimacy of this whole event. I also find myself wondering why? Why the great effort in making George look good?

  2. ElikiasDad says:

    Why wasn’t GZ charged with a federal crime if he had the gun in his glove box?

    Under the Firearm Owners Protection Act. You are allowed to transport firearms across state lines provided:
    1. the weapons are transported unloaded;
    2. the weapons are legal to possess in the state of origin, and in the state of destination;
    3. the weapons are stored in an area of the vehicle that is not accessible to the passenger compartment (i.e., trunk);

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      So, are you saying that gz broke the law by not having the gun in the trunk (#3)?

    • cielo62 says:

      Dad~ He had a CCW in Florida. Exceptions are usually made for pick up thrucks because many don’t have trunk area. And lastly, the cop  probably agreed with what gz did. Why make a fuss?


    • ElikiasDad says:

      If it helps this what I’m referring to Federal Law 18USC 926A


      • fauxmccoy says:


        the federal law you cited with which i am very familiar, stated in part

        Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof

        therein lies the problem. a florida CCW is perfectly valid in texas and all states one would drive through to get there per state law. therefore, no federal law was violated.

  3. Xena says:

    I just watched Michelle Knight give her statement before the court, and within her terrifying experience, she said something so poignant, so true, and for me, so comforting.

    Eleven years seems like a long time. It took 11 yrs for Castro’s reaping day to come, but it came.

    Yeah — karma works. Do you hear that George Zimmerman? You might want to give an appearance in public of not being a monster, but that won’t save you on your reaping day any more than it saved Castro.

  4. type1juve says:

    My thoughts tonight are bittersweet. I’m so happy to see these young women get some form of justice, though they will never be whole again. Punishment for Castro provides some validation for what they have had to endure. I’m still angry and hurt for the way that Trayvon’s life has been discounted. I think it’s sad that we’ve come to the point where we are grateful when law enforcement does their job as they are supposed to. I’m hoping for the same in the Jordan Davis case.

  5. kllypyn says:

    My thought to night are those ladies on the jury. I don’t understand how after hearing those last screams from trayvon,those ladies chose to let him go. I don’t believe for one moment they thought that was Zimmerman screaming. Trayvon was literally crying when he was killed.those ladies are going to have to answer for what they have done when they meet heir maker. o-mara and co. are sleeze ball lawyers.

    • Malisha says:

      Everyone who took part in the blessing of a murderer (i.e. the freeing and acquittal of Fogen) has a very big debt to pay to society. They have all done their part to turn our country into a disgraceful, shameful, mockable, hideous sewer for the whole world to criticize.

  6. lurker says:

    I saw bits and pieces, including Castro’s attempt to smear his victims claiming that they admitted to multiple prior sexual encounters, and his attempt to portray himself as an upstanding community member. What is sick is his apparent ability to believe that this is true. Also striking is his claim of having been abused sexually as a child–which I believe.

    And I do see these things paralled not only in George Zimmerman, but throughout his family. Another set of crimes in Ohio this week involved a teenaged serial killer on a rampage. A significant factor in his arrest was information provided to police by his frightened mother. Even minimally healthy people are able to recognize when a family member is in criminal trouble–and needs to be stopped for their own good as well as that of society.

    The Zimmermans have consistently displayed a pathologically ability to not only swallow George’s improbable tale whole and without question, but to provide their own embellishments–to a bizarre level of not only lying under oath, but of consistent propagandistic publications. The denial is deep and ongoing.

    • Kimmi says:

      That’s for sure Lurker, “the denial is deep and ongoing”

      Robert Zimmerman JR ‏@rzimmermanjr 11h
      The capacity to hate is the most dangerous human reality. **We’re always ready to blame someone else in order to absolve us of our self-guilt.**

      What an idiot, does he ever THINK before he SPEAKS?

      That’s almost as stupid as his comment about a “vigilante with a gun going after Fogen and taking the law into their own hands.”

      SHUT UP Jr, the more you open your mouth the more you prove how stupid you (and your whole family) are

      • ladystclaire says:

        The racist bastard even got on TV and told Don Lemon that, he heard that Trayvon was trying to procure guns and, that he was growing weed as well as making LEAN. why does CNN along with Piers Morgan, give this SOB a platform on which to spew his lies and racist hatred? I believe Piers himself is a racist and, this is why he has joonyah on his show so much because, he is able to say the things that Piers himself can’t say on the air himself.

        I have never heard of LEAN until this happened and, I heard it from the folks who are longing for the days of Jim Crow. from what I understand, one would have to have a opiate based cough syrup to mix with the other items that consist of, sprite and jolly ranchers candies. now, to procure the cough syrup that is opiate based, one would have to have a script for that medication and, black folks are not going to get a script like that so easily and, that’s the truth. doctors do not routinely write out scripts for AA that freely and, this is common knowledge. just ask anybody who works in the medical profession. Readers Digest even wrote an article on this very thing a couple of years ago and, they stated that, blacks are under treated for chronic pain and that includes the pain of cancer.

        So, where was Trayvon going to get the cough medicine from to make this LEAN? and why do those who accuse him of doing so, know so damn much about LEAN and, what one would need in order to make up a batch of it? this poor kid lost his life and, for these kluckers to make up shit on him and smear his character, is too damn much to take.

        • MDH says:

          I think I would lose it and start beating Roberts ass, if he pulled that in front of me.

          His brother is a COWARD who, even before the shooting, could not go anywhere without his gun. No amount of false demonizing of the victim will change the fact that GZ is a C-O-W-A-R-D.

  7. Soulcatcher says:

    Well that was an exciting week jury service, and I said when I was free to discuss I would be here first. Nothing to discuss as I was on stand-by for the week, and have fulfilled my obligations gor the next 12 months. Darn, I was hoping to be sequestered for a couple of weeks, and have some steak dinners, free manicures and movies. Maybe make the tours and write a book. LOL. I did read though here in Cali, you cannot profit after jury duty for 90 days, not that I would even attempt to, but I guess in Florida the laws differ.

    • Welcome back. Sorry to hear you didn’t get on a jury. I think you would have found the experience to be quite fascinating, even if a bit frightening because of the responsibility involved in deciding guilt or innocence.

      Because of my background and experience, I have zero chance of ever serving on a jury. Therefore, I am limited to experiencing it vicariously.

  8. I am very concerned about the glee that Zimmerman supporters appear to take in (1) the murder of Trayvon Martin and (2) the not guilty verdict for Zimmerman. While Zimmerman’s case is often compared to the OJ case by his supporters, there are at least two crucial differences: (1) police did not trump up evidence against Zimmerman and (2) no one I know thought OJ’s victims deserved their fates. I remain in grief over the injustice of the verdict, made even more painful by the the words of the two jurors who have spoken out. I am grateful for this blog, an oasis in a desert of misinformation, lies and hate. In the Zimmerman case alone, it seems to be a tale of millions of psychopaths. (Wish my first post after months of lurking was more cheerful; sorry!)

    • Trained Observer says:

      Two excellent points, obitwriter. Glad you’re here. May your presence be the kiss of death for the type of behavior Fogen exhibits.

  9. You all have thoughtful comments says:

  10. endlessummer76 says:

    Since you asked, here’s what’s on my mind:
    The Dream Defenders are still Occupying the Florida Capitol in Tallahassee: http://dreamdefenders.org/
    Their immediate goal is to have the governor call a special session to work on a repeal or rewrite of SYG. Their long term goal is a repeal of SYG and enactment of ERPA.

    I have also been thinking about Juror B-29’s interview with Robin Roberts. There was so much wrong with it, including the fact that she contradicts herself, and contradicts much of what was said by B-37.

    One of the things she said that was heavily quoted was this: “we thought he was guilty but the law couldn’t prove it.” On it’s face this sentence is nonsensical as the law is not able to act to prove anything. In a typical display of journalistic failure, Robin Roberts didn’t ask her what she meant by her statement. I can think of 2 things she may have meant. 1) “the law” being the prosecution, failed to prove that the defendant was guilty of a crime; or 2) “the law” as a statute said that what the defendant did was not a crime. Or she may have meant something completely different. It would be good to know what she actually meant.

    The other thing that bothered me greatly was when she said that the defendant did not plan to kill when he got out of the car to follow Trayvon, so that was another reason for acquittal. B-37 said that they only considered what happened at the moment the defendant pulled the trigger. I find both of those statements baffling. Where did they get the idea that intent had to be formed when he left his vehicle? And where did they get the idea that nothing mattered but the moment the shot was fired? Both these jurors seem to have such a skewed view of the law. Abject failure by the prosecution to educate the jury on how to convict the murderer.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Beyond baffling.

      Where did the Dumbo Six get any of their ideas?

    • elcymoo says:

      I suspect that she and the other jurors got the notion that they had to find that GZ got out of his vehicle intending to kill Trayvon from Mark O’Mara. I remember that he brayed out at least twice that the prosecution wanted the jurors to believe that. The prosecution never argued that, of course, and he wasn’t charged with premediated murder, but the ploy worked.

  11. smokeegyrl says:

    I watched this morning sentencing of Ariel Castro, and it brought to mind my own encounter of my own rape as a child for 2-3 years as a child by a neighbor. I cried, as I imagine the man in the courtroom to be the same man as my rapist. He had the same beard and wore the glasses as I look up from the the pants presser machine into his eyes as he is ranting I could hear his voice blaming his ex wife *tears* falling down my face as I am being raped. I could feel the pain of those kidnapped girls as I felt I was there in that house feeling what they were feeling. OH God! As if my rapist was being sentenced to life in prison as I hear the judge read every single word of under the law you are sentenced 10 years to life for each count 11, 12, 111, 203, etc, etc, etc.. tears flowing…. then it became LIFE IN PRISON PLUS 1000 YEARS… I was standing there holding those girls hands… then it hit me… I wasn’t in that court room… but in spirit I was there… I never got a chance to send my rapist to court… I was too young… but today… I felt like I did… strange isn’t it? Then I heard Miss Knight speak her powerful words… I mention some of the same words in my Survivor video. Just like Miss Knight I forgave my rapist but I will never forget it that’s what makes us survivors and not victims anymore. But today.. brought back memories for me that were hidden in the back of mind.


    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Oh, my precious one, I wish I could take you in my arms right now and hug you as you cry. You have gone through a lifetime with that 2-3 year old girl inside you who needed to come out and cry as she is doing tonight knowing that she had just watched and listened to three girls who would understand.

      Your little girl inside you has now had a chance to cry on her terms at her age level.

      *tears and hugs for you, smokeegyrl*

    • racerrodig says:

      I feel for you and I’ll put you on my prayer chain. These bastards who have no respect for women are revolting. The urge to grab his neck and just squeeze at is times overwhelming. I could not imagine the horror and feeling of helplessness and violation.

      My wife & I were the victims of a shooting 10/90 by her brother in law. Thank God I heard the 1st shot and knew what it was and pulled her down and laid over top of her. The shock !! Thankfully the only injury was a nick on my right earlobe, but the police bungled the investigation despite 2 spectacular eyewitnesses. He walked onto the rear deck of my house (this was 8 months before we were married) and open fire through the slider widow withe the vertical blinds just about closed.

      That was a major life altering event, but I cannot imagine what you went through…….

  12. Dee says:

    What I cannot understand is how, Amanda was at a concert with this guy groping all over her. This is unusual for a person to have just gone through 10 years of rape and captivity to allow a man to get close to them so fast. Especially having this guy perform open affections as this guy was doing to her on that stage. He was grabbing around her neck across her chest, as well as kissing her on the neck. That was quite shocking for me to see so soon. I was surprised that no one even mentioned that this guy was all over her so soon after what she had went through. And how is she allowing it to happen so fast after she got released.

    • cielo62 says:

      Dee- maybe she has deadened herself. It means no kore to her emotionally than a wave. Real intimacy will take years to establish.


      • Trained Observer says:

        Sadly, Amanda has been deprived of learning how to behave in public places, and it appears the guy lacks breeding in how to treat a date.

      • lurker says:

        Agreed and helpful. There is never a single template of reaction to trauma. Some attempt to regain power over their own sexuality through promiscuity. One reason that many in the sex trade are found to have been abused as children. Promiscuity should not be confused with intimacy.

    • fauxmccoy says:


      i did not see the event that you referenced, nor do i wish to. i will say that after spending many years of my professional life counseling in a battered womens’ shelter (where no case i worked came remotely close to what these victims encountered) i can say that there is no real ‘normal’ after such an experience. it would be consistent with my training to encourage a significant period of time for self growth before engaging in an intimate relationship, but should the victim choose otherwise, it would be appropriate to help navigate that route.

      there is a spectrum of reactions to expect, from michelle knight’s refusal of medical care by male practitioners up to those who will willingly engage in risky behavior. no one reacts the same and it is impossible for me to judge, doing so feels too much like ‘blaming the victim’ albeit retroactively.

      how amanda chooses to go forward with her life is her decision and hopefully with the world class help she has available to her. she deserves to make her own choices at this point even if they do not comport with what any one of us would choose.

      there is no ‘normal’ after her experience, trained professionals know this. how could there possibly be?

      • aussie says:

        Yes. And let’s remember, she probably does not yet know how far she can with objecting to something, before being punished for doing so.

        She does deserve to make her own choices, but after 10 years of not being able to, perhaps she’s a bit out of practice and might do well to seek advice.

        I would, however, have a few worries about a guy acting that way with someone with her history. Especially in public.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          aussie — i mentioned this to my husband and he had seen the video, so we wound up watching it together. what we saw was typical concert behavior that we had both engaged in before we became boring old farts just trying to raise our children. if my own daughter were doing the same at 20, i would not be shocked.

          the psych docs on the stand mentioned stockholm syndrome among other issues, one thing that was unmentioned is the psychological phenomena of emotional maturation becoming stunted at the time trauma began. this young woman may have the body of a 27 year old, may have given birth in deplorable conditions and was abused horribly — but she still has all the mistakes and learning experiences that we all went through as late teens and young adults. that, too, was something that was robbed from her. she has a lifetime of recovery before her, but that path is hers alone to take.

          by all appearances, she seemed happy and in the arms of someone she trusted and cared about, and owning her own body. i can find no fault.

  13. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    What’s on my mind? It is really the echoes inside me.

    The echoes of the heartbreaking cries, tears, anger, and shaking emotions the night of the verdict of my fellow posters here who are Black and who were so acutely aware of the devastating implications of the verdict on their lives.

    And, then, also of their admirable strength and steadfast determination in the days that followed to stand up for a just cause and never be silenced.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      That is why the next morning I rewrote the third verse of “No Man Is an Island”

      >No man is an island,
      No man stands alone,
      Each man’s joy is joy to me,
      Each man’s grief is my own.

      We need one another,
      So I will defend,
      Each man as my brother,
      Each man as my friend.

      I heard the people weeping.
      I heard the verdict read.
      The tears that they were shedding
      Is echoing in my heart.

  14. Xena says:

    Caller to 911: (any member of O’Mara, West, Gov. Scott or the Zimmerman family.) There’s a creepy looking guy following me.

    911: Do you know the person?

    Caller: No.

    911: I’m sorry but we cannot dispatch an officer because there’s no law against following.

    Caller: But this person looks creepy. I don’t know them, and I’m afraid of them.

    911: Can’t you just go home?

    Caller: I ran from him already, and while I was making sure he wasn’t still behind me, I saw him again. I don’t want him knowing where I live. Look, the guy is getting closer.

    911: Just ask him why he’s following you and let me know if he does anything else.

    Caller: (addressing to the person following) Why are you following me?

    Phone goes dead.

      • Xena says:

        Can you imagine a person calling NEN because they smell smoke, and while on the phone with dispatch, say “Shit. I see flames now.” Dispatch hears running water and asks, “Are you putting water on the fire? We don’t need you to do that.”

        Three minutes later, neighbors are calling to report a house on fire. The fire department arrives and finds a person outside of the house with non-threatening burns, and a person in the house dead –burned from head to toe. It was a grease fire.

        Does anyone think for a moment that the person who called NEN and reported seeing flames and admitted to putting water on the fire that made it worst, would not be charged and found guilty of that other person’s death?

        • aussie says:

          No they would not and should not. Putting water on a fire is a normal way to try and put it out. They’d not be charged any more than someone at a car smash who does NOT turn someone over, for fear of a spinal injury, and the person ends up drowning in their own blood. Attempts at rescue cannot rightly lead to charges.

          • racerrodig says:

            Uhhhhhhh, you don’t live in the United States and that very thing has resulted in lawsuits here. I know for fact in Phila. Pa there was a criminal prosecution for that about 5 years ago. My best friend was the contractor who got the job renovating the house. He knew the entire saga. Talk about a bad situation.

          • Xena says:

            @racerrodig. Right. IMO, the HOA paid up a settlement and prevented court action because they knew under the circumstances that they were liable for turning over NW to GZ, who not only disobeyed NW rules, but also made an independent decision to get out of his truck and follow Trayvon.

            The HOA resolved their civil accountability.

            The jury relinquished GZ from his criminal accountability.

            There is still possibility that GZ will be held responsible in a civil action.

            There is still possibility that GZ will be charged and prosecuted by the federal government.

            Had he only kept his butt in his truck. (sigh)

          • Xena says:


            No they would not and should not. Putting water on a fire is a normal way to try and put it out.

            When 911 dispatch says “We don’t need you to do that” and the person continues anyway, that person becomes liable for whatever happens and their insurance is not obligated to pay for damages. They are also liable for any injuries to themselves and/or others, and if there is death to others, they are criminally as well as civilly responsible.

            Aussie, you’re talking about “attempts” to rescue. I’m talking about people who make independent decisions on handling a situation while on the phone with 911, being corrected by 911, and still thinking that they know more and better than personnel who are trained to prevent or lessen harm to the caller.

            Now, I don’t want to hear that Sean was not 911 because he testified at trial that he can answer either emergency or non-emergency calls.

          • cielo62 says:

            Xena~ Good Samaritan Laws also differ by state. Some are very forgiving, as long as someone is attempting rescue. In others, like Texas, EVEN IF you attempt being a Good Samaritan, YOU are LIABLE for any injuries incurred while you attempt to help a person. Honestly, I guess it’s no wonder people around here are fearful to get involved.


          • Xena says:


            Good Samaritan Laws also differ by state.

            Yes. I think aussie confused disobedience to a 911 dispatchers instructions with Good Samaritan law. GZ was not trying to help Trayvon when he got out his truck and pursued him.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      You tell it……put them in Trayvon’s shoes. Oh, Xena, it is so horrific what happened to Trayvon.

      • Xena says:

        @yahtc. GZ may have his day yet of calling the cops because someone is following him, and being told there is no law against following.

        • You all have thoughtful comments says:

          I hear you, Xena.

        • racerrodig says:

          Fogen (dialing cell phone) “……come on….”

          911 dispatcher “This is 911 emergency…..the nature of your call please”

          Fogen “……..um….I’ve had some bad experiences and um……I think someones following me”

          911 “Okay…..can you describe them to me?”

          Fogen “…um, which one”?

          911 “There’s more than one…..how many, can you tell?”

          Fogen “Um, I can’t even count them, and I don’t want to give my address out”

          911 “If you’re in a public place, stay in the open so other people are aware of you”

          Fogen “Okay”

          911 “Can you tell me what any of them are wearing, and the age”

          Fogen “….um, one is wearing, like a tank top and tight pants……and um, like a lace skirt”

          911 “OoooooKay”

          Fogen “……and one is wearing jeans and a T shirt that says “Bite Me” on it…….and like cowboy boots”

          911 “Anything else”

          Fogen “Yeah……one of them is wearing a Miami Dolphins jersey and um…….like painters pants……….I don’t know what his deal is”

          911 “How old would you say he is ?”

          Fogen “Late teeeeens…….he’s got a button on his shirt”

          911 “Okay we’ll send an officer, can you tell me your location”

          Fogen “….um……..I’m at the mall”

  15. Jeanette says:

    I just watched the linked video statements of Michelle Knight and the Monster.

    What an amazing woman she is and inasumuch as I hope her and the other 2 women get all of the privacy they require, a small part of me hopes, somewhere down the line, to hear of a reunion between her and her son. Aside from her close bond with DeJesus, I think the promise of being with him is what sustained her all these years. As a parent, I get that under the most horrific circumstances, such hope may be the only thing compelling one to survive.

    As to the Monster and his similarities to Zimmerman, I’m not well versed in psychology, but there are a few things that stand out–no matter how egregious the actions both are caught, red-handed, engaging in–it’s always someone else’s fault and the ends are supposed to justify the means (“I had needs”, “I was just trying to protect my community”). No empathy. No discernable ability to posit their “needs” and desires don’t superscede the rights of another. Attempting to re-define widely accepted concepts such as “rape vs. consentual sex and following vs. going in the same direction.” And the lives they destroyed in the process? Acceptable casualties and no remorse.

    Just my thoughts.

  16. Cercando Luce says:

    The big difference is whom the victims asked (begged) for help.

    Amanda Berry asked a black man, Charles Ramsey, and he leaped at the chance to help, breaking the door, physically pulled her out, and called police. Police went straight into normal procedure, rescued the others and carefully gathered evidence which was presented at trial.

    Trayvon Martin also screamed for help, and although Jenna Lauer did call police, neither she, nor her watching boyfriend, nor the other neighbors, came out to help. The boy’s screams were recorded as was his death from gunshot, and the police, the jury, the judge, and the prosecutors deviated from correct procedure to seek justice because of his race.

    In Cleveland, newspapers described the crime committed and the public expressed support for the victims. In Florida, newspapers slavishly broadcast the defense attorneys’ propaganda demonizing the boy, along with a mad unending tsunami of false and racist reader comments by the million. The contaminated jurors, evaluating a half-assed prosecution under the eye of a contaminated judge, with a police force that failed at a dozen levels to follow procedure, actually thought they “worked hard and applied the law” in a way that was worthy of a book deal. So the killer was taught that he can kill at will as long as he picks on the right victim and LE terminology to calm the police who might otherwise enforce laws.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      This just makes me sick and tearfully strained inside.

      Your analysis, Cercando, with the heartbreaking 2nd paragraph is correct.

    • bettykath says:

      Consider that the victims in Cleveland were white women. The victim in Sanford was a Black teen.

      • racerrodig says:

        You guys and gals are all on your game tonight I must say. I am not in any way violent nor vengeful, but I will say Fogen would never get one over on an adult, especially this one. In fact, that’s what he needs…….a good old fashioned ass whooping.

      • chills101 says:

        Bettykath~ So true….. Took the words right out my mouth.

  17. Trained Observer says:

    Thank you for live-blogging this sentencing. Was only able to lifestream the beginning before attending to other obligations, and it was quite helpful and informative to pick up on what happened with your assistance. Castro is on his way to where he belongs, ideally for a very long miserable life whith other convicts who view him as the bottom of the barrel.

    While Fogen is out on the loose for now, I can’t believe that will last. His two encounters with law enforcement within a coupla weeks of being turned loose by Judge Nelson, IMO, are only an inkling of what’s to come. At some point, this narcisissistic pig will stick his snout into a dangerous situation, and Fogen will find himself on the short stick.

  18. crazy1946 says:

    Because the Fogdoit liked the neighborhood watch program so much he appointed himself as supreme judge, juror and executioner, perhaps we should form a neighborhood watch program but on a slightly larger scale. We could call it the “Nation Wide Watch Out For Dangerous Afro-Peruvian Society”, the function of this group will be to locate, watch and observe and report to the legal authorities anytime the Fogdoit is spotted…. We could start each call out with “I saw a person that looked like he was wandering around and was up to no good or on drugs or something…

    • Xena says:

      Well, GZ is suspicious and dangerous. If we rely on the testimony of Adam Pollock, GZ carries a gun because he can’t swat a fly out of his face.

      • pat deadder says:

        Now Xena don’t forget he was swatting at Trayvon at the T. .

        • Xena says:

          @pat deadder. GZ had to explain that 40 ft stumble in some manner. His LOW swiping motions, like Trayvon was 4 ft tall, didn’t get the attention of the detectives. Either they are unqualified to perform their jobs, or they didn’t want to do their job. Oh wait — Serino must have realized he is unqualified to be a detective. He’s walking the beat now. My bad.

          • chills101 says:

            Xena~ If fogen was black, the Sherlock Holmes would have come out of him….

          • Xena says:

            @chills101. If GZ were Black, this case would have never been known worldwide. He would have been arrested that same night. A public defender would have convinced him to take a plea, and GZ would have began serving his sentence around May of last year.

          • pat deadder says:

            None of these LE should be allowed to even walk a beat no one from the top down.

  19. Fred is correcting an error in this post. The cop said “Don’t load the gun”

    or something to that effect. not, “unload the gun”

    errata, sorry.

    At any rate, I notice that ole fogen had best not flash that gun around California, where he is apparently not authorized to carry.

    Also, what a dipshit. On the one hand, just a couple of weeks ago, GZ’s drama queen nutjob lawyer claims his client must live in hiding, and yet…and yet, here his client is! On the damn news every day!

  20. Deborah Moore says:

    What’s on my mind tonight, you ask, Fred?
    I’m most concerned tonight about how we take care of each other.
    I’m concerned about maintaining a balanced outlook towards the world, other folks, animals and mostly towards those I interact with.
    I feel sad for those hurting tonight, whether from hunger, abuse, or self inflicted worries and wounds.
    Bless us all.

    • A wakeup call, and a powerful comment, thank you Deborah.

    • I am very concerned about that too.

      • Deborah Moore says:

        When you add up what the US does to kill people in other countries, what happens to our soldiers Over There, the miscarriage of justice in the courts, the overflowing prisons, the sexual scandals here, there and especially with folks who are in positions of control, it’s just mind boggling. This enables all the terrible urges that humans are prone to.
        Must get back to the bell to handle it all.
        Let us be the Bell Inviter.
        Feed the Peace, Starve the Anxiety.

        • Yes, with many thanks to ay2z

          If you want to feel centered, listen to the bell . . .

        • You all have thoughtful comments says:

          • Deborah Moore says:

            Thank you, in advance, Yahtcs.
            I’m still in the dinner and fam process, so I’m going to experience this a little later, when I have this room to myself and all is quiet.
            Something wonderful to look forward to.

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            You are welcome, Deborah.

            I have 3 large Tibetan singing brass bowls (15″ across at the top and about 9″ high) that I often sit and “activate”………so peaceful and meditative.

    • racerrodig says:

      Well said….you’re reading my mind. Although please read my post above about what possibilities exist for Fogen et al !!

  21. Judy75201 says:

    I didn’t know about the “removing the clip” part. Wow.

    If only fogen had had a judge like this one.

    Why is it that he can’t even get a freakin’ ticket? I hope he is spotted again and again, and never sleeps with even one eye closed for the rest of his life.

    • Trained Observer says:

      That removing the clip biz was new to me, too. Does this fool never learn? Too bad the license plate seemed to be obscured. Whenever behind a truck like that, I’d like to check the plate.

      • Girlp says:

        I’m afraid GZ’s antics are going to escalate someone’s going to get hurt or be killed. He loves the attention he is totally in love with himself. As a matter of fact IMO anyone close to him is in danger.

      • I was mistaken and have since corrected the sentence to read:

        Unlike Ariel Castro, who will never be released from prison, Zimmerman is out and about packing a gun and was last seen in Texas where he was stopped for speeding and warned not to load his gun and to put it away in his glove compartment.

        • lady2soothe says:


          Scroll down to the 2nd video to show the beginning which is a good mile before the officer pulls up behind the Ridgeline.

          The officer’s car begins in the left lane behind the white pick-up truck which is behind a smaller vehicle. The officer travels quite a distance behind the small vehicle next to the white pick-up then passes the white pick-up when the sound comes on you’ll hear the sirens and music from a radio in the background. You will then see a grey truck (which matches GZ’s Honda Ridgeline) in the right lane. The cop traveling in the right lane finally gets the small car ahead to pull over toward the left and the officer passes the small vehicle on the right. The grey pick-up truck speeds up rapidly into the distance and passes GZ’s vehicle which is parked on the shoulder with the flashers engaged. The cop then slows down behind GZ’s vehicle which was parked there long before the cop car is even in sight.

          This appears to be an invented this scene with a decoy truck (the one speeding) which was probably supposed to disappear over the hill and get to the horizon, making it appear as though GZ’s vehicle was the one pulled over, however someone made a mistake in their chorography and synchronization and nobody thought to do a re-take or cut the beginning of the video off.

          Since when do the police claim they’ve stopped a vehicle for speeding when the vehicle was ALREADY stopped alongside of the road, blinkers flashing? The Officer had been following the speeding truck for over a mile when it flew past GZ’s parked vehicle, passing it at a high rate of speed and continuing down the road, YET the video cam car with the cop (or actor) slowed down, stopping behind what is supposedly GZ’s Ridgeline.

          Now just because someone claims to possess a Concealed Carry Permit, doesn’t mean they actually have one or proof of validity, nor would it automatically render them non-threating. Telling an Officer you’re in possession of a gun instantly makes you a potential threat … *IF* the Officer was conscientious and following Standard Operating Procedure for his own safety as well as the safety of others, he would have verified the permit along with the Driver’s License rather than stating “Close up the Glove Compartment”. A *real* Officer would demand all occupants to exit said vehicle, place their hands on the hood and handcuff them prior to returning to the squad car to run info?

          • Boyd says:

            Looks to me, Fogen knew he was caught and pulled over, we could not see it in the video. Why the cop put his siren eludes me, Fogen had already pulled over.

            He had to be going minimum 10mph over the limit. What gets me is he switches on the siren (like it’s a big deal) and does not issue a ticket! If I had received a speeding ticket there for a few miles over the limit I’d be howling.

          • lady2soothe says:


            Watch the 2nd video, not the first… GZ’s vehicle was already parked way before the police arrived. There were 2 trucks and both looked like GZ’s. The 1st was speeding, the cop couldn’t have even seen GZ’s, he was nowhere in sight when the video begins.

          • cielo62 says:

            lady 2soothe~ no, for just speeding,  cops don’t do all of that (the exiting, the hands on the hood, etc), but then I also never carry a gun. But for as FAST as he was going over the limit, he SHOULD have received a ticket, because THAT is a hefty hefty fine. Almost as hefty as gz himself!


          • lady2soothe says:

            Please watch the 2nd video, the camera is rolling for over a mile before GZ’s truck is even in sight. When there’s a gun in the vehicle it’s considered a threat until it can be cleared the gun is legal. The Officer DID NOT verify the CC permit.

          • Malisha says:

            Remember Erwin’s question: “Ever get pulled over for speeding?”

            This looks to me like a charade. I don’t think the officer would put it up for everyone to see if he had FAILED to give the ticket after someone was speeding; doesn’t send a good message.

            This was a cop-buddy’s cop-buddy doing another favor.

          • lady2soothe says:


            Yes I remember the question… GZ’s answer was “no” (probably lying)… Most people either have or know someone who would have answered “yes” Personally I’ve never gotten pulled over for speeding, although once with a warning for going too slow… I’m sure this speeding thing is a complete ruse to make GZ appear more human.

            Full on charade with a speeding truck decoy and a Texas cop pretending to be a compassionate.

            Pure bullshit.

          • @ladysoothe Well I’ll be… The longer video certainly looks as you have described. Fogen was already on the side of the road when the cop pulls up behind him.

            I’ve seen instances where cops have drivers exit with hands on the hood and handcuffed, even where no gun was involved. But then again, this is Teflon Fogen.

          • lady2soothe says:

            Medusausi … I believe someone accidently/intentionally released the longer version so we could see how absurd the *real* video is.

          • Malisha says:

            Cops I know, if you get pulled over and you say, “Do you know who I am?” they answer, “Sir [or Madam] it doesn’t matter who you are, you were exceeding the speed limit” and just ASKING that question will get you the ticket. If you DON’T try to pull rank on an officer you can get a warning. “Don’t you recognize me” should NOT work with a clean cop. (I only know three cops and they’re clean. But they know a lot of others who are not.)

          • Malisha says:

            See, this was just a traffic stop and they had the camcorder going. That’s what makes me say TIM SMITH HAD THE RIDE T THE STATION HOUSE RECORDED AND HE DESTROYED THE TAPE.

          • lady2soothe says:

            Malisha … I know quite a few cops because my Dad has been involved for the past 35 plus years in an organization to show appreciation and salute Officers which (supposedly) Serve and Protect (haha) Northeast Los Angeles as well as benefit fallen Officer’s families and when someone says “Do you know who I am?” the overall response is “Get out of the car, put your hands on the hood” (although I’m not sure if these are good or bad cops – that’s just what they’re trained to say to the public) and *if* the Officer had pre-thought his role in the faux speed stop dashcam video he’d have followed SOP for realism.

            I agree with your Tim Smith comment, I’d also like to add I think there was a quick pit-stop clothes changing detour en-route to the station house.

          • racerrodig says:

            In fact, a real officer would have had Fogen step out of the truck and stand behind it for the safety of the officer. That is SOP anytime a gun is seen or admitted to. This one reeks as bad if not worse than the alleged heroics.

          • lady2soothe says:

            racerrodig ….. That’s what I’ve been trying to tell some of the other posters along with the fact that the dashcam video started over a mile before and was tracking a speeding decoy truck similar to GZ’s Ridgeline. GZ was pre-parked on the shoulder just waiting for the Officer to pull up behind him, while the speeding decoy truck continued over the hill.

            You’re correct, I wrote hood, but it should be on the trunk or the behind the truck so the Officer wouldn’t lose sight of the occupant(s).

      • crazy1946 says:

        Repost from the other day!

        crazy1946 says:

        July 31, 2013 at 5:44 pm

        Wow, did you notice they gave not only his license plate number (Florida 816-KLP) they also gave his Drivers license number as well (Florida Z565313833650)! Sure would make it easy to track his movements… or do other things…..

    • chills101 says:

      Judy~ I think Spd, his racist lawyers, his racist family and friends, and the racist media are just as guilty as fogen. He didn’t get away with killing Trayvon without their help. The prosecution didn help either. They all should be held accountable for this kid’s death. They all have blood on their hands…..

      • ladystclaire says:

        @chills101, you are darn right my friend, it seems that all of Sanford testified for this joker and, against the real victim here. Serino and Singleton really made me mad as hell, by the way they both acted while on the stand, helping a murderer get away with his crime. as I have said before, I have never seen a murder trial, where LE went against the victim and helped the defendant get away with murder. also, the prosecution did their part in helping him as well.

        I don’t see the DOJ going after him either because, Obama is to concerned with how the conservatives will see him. they are not going to like him, no matter what he does. so, he needs to do his job in this instance and, charge Fogen with a hate crime. fucking coons is not a term of endearment and, fogen uses the N word in his emails to the other neighbors when he advises them what to look for in a criminal or a suspicious person.

        Trayvon was let down by the very people who were suppose to ensure that he and his family got justice for his demise. instead, they helped his killer go free. Angela Corey and BDLR should be a shamed of themselves for what they’ve done. I wish Mr. Crump, Mr Parks and, all of the other attorneys representing Trayvon’s family, with the exception of Natalie Jackson, would just come out and say how they really feel about the prosecution and, how they failed this child. Natalie Jackson is not going to speak ill of them because, she has as much as said so.

        The justice system did not work in this case and, damn it we all saw what took place in that trial. they selected an all white jury in the first place because, they knew that if they put an AA on that jury, they would have ended up with a hung jury or a mistrial. this was all so wrong and, I hope MY GOD will work with each and everyone of them in his own way. how could they do what they did to this child who was bothering no one?

        They all knew that juror B37 was a plant and insurance for the defense and yet, they allowed her to be on the panel. the man that sat in the courtroom and then became a defense witness, well his testimony was suppose to be stricken from the record but, it wasn’t. this was all so horribly wrong and, every last one of these complicit individuals are going to answer for what they did to Trayvon and his family.

      • Malisha says:

        X 100, chills.

        At night I sometimes fantasize about teaching then “lessons.”

        If any doctor tells me I have six months to live, well then, I may devote the rest of my life to education.

  22. Two sides to a story says:

    Tell it, Professor.

    And we need to keep telling it loud and clear until that FogenZ is unarmed and under control.

  23. bettykath says:


  24. Looking at the whole picture, there were psychopaths in the Zimmerman lawyers as well, but not in Castro.

    If O’Mara would have been with Castro, I can see him arguing: Why on earth wouldn’t the man have a gun? The women attacked and threatened him repeatedly. He was simply minding his own business and doing the very best he could all those years!

    • Girlp says:

      O’Mara would have trashed those young women in every manner possible.

      • He absolutely would have, even if he had to make shit up. He would have put those women and that child on trial, and then gone on and on about what a hero his client was, for ‘surviving’ the awful ordeal.

        • Malisha says:

          He would have had Castro sue for custody of his biological child, and Castro would have gotten it, and then the mother would have to go to work at a menial job and pay Castro child support and she would only get supervised visitation because some guardian ad litem would testify that the mother was hostile and vindictive toward the father and was causing the child to turn against her good daddy, in violation of Father’s rights to be equal under law. He also would have shown that the mother of the child was an “unfit mother” because she could not protect her own child.

    • Trained Observer says:

      And as for the sex .. they wanted it, demanded it, in fact. It’s all they talked about. That was more important to them than food or clothing to ward off the basement chill. As for the miscarriages? Well, what’s a little cramping now and then, likely would be O’Mara’s attitude. …. I can hear West’s knock-knock jokes now. And see those two distusting daughters licking more cones.

    • Xena says:

      Right. O’Mara would have also probably argued that the girls deliberately became pregnant in order to obligate Castro to take care of them.

      O’Mara would have asked why the girls did not send up smoke signals, or train a carrier pigeon?

      Taaffe would say that had they just been nice to Castro and did what he wanted, Castro would not have needed to chain them.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Millions of Limbaugh/Hannity followers would have plagued comment boards to say that the girls had plenty of time to go home, but didn’t, and why didn’t they call 911?

      • Right, and besides, there is absolutely nothing wrong with having 90 feet of heavy chain around the house. Chains, and zip ties, and duct tape and a gun? Perfectly legal! Why wouldn’t any American have these things in the home? Just because some people think your home is designed like a prison, doesn’t mean you are breaking the law! Cut the man a break.



        • Xena says:

          @Crane-Station. Ahh yes. Those second amendment rights and all. When exercising those rights infringes upon the rights of other citizens, what then? O’Mara and West style — those citizens have no rights other than what White and/or White Hispanic men give to them.

          • Malisha says:

            Those women invaded Castro’s home. Under castle doctrine he had a right to kill them in self-defense but instead he fed, clothed and loved them for years. What androgynists those women are! How dare the prosecutors display such misconduct! He should sue them!

        • racerrodig says:

          What I couldn’t do to Fogen, Castro, Taaffe, Robbie the Racist, The Moron Man & West……just to name the obvious, with what few feet of chain I have in the shop, my lift, the engine hoist, my blow torch, an old camshaft (Ford preferably) those large wire ties, a few large pry bars, some “Hard Block” (concrete like mix which stiffens a block, poured in the water jacket) some old fan belts and a few ratchet tie downs with just a few hours time.

          Ask nice, I’ll cue ya all in……..

          Now they can see what horror they have inflicted on their victims………..who’s 1st !!

          I’m thinking Castro didn’t buy any Christmas or birthday gifts for his “family” despite the claim of a harmonious household. I’m also thinking there was no bay shower either.

          As far as that sex addiction……..is this guy kidding ?? !! ?? Now we all know some of us males can get that “horn dog” thing brewing……..but this was part of his statement??

          I can see Hitler if he survived at Nuremberg …….

          “….undt to zoooose Jews……I vas just trying to make za father land a better place undt I just got carried avay……. Undt if zooose Frechies didn’t erect that Maginot Line……I vould never have been compelled to stroll into Paris…….

          And my apologies to zooose Russkies…..I vas told to go to Stalingrad undt make a right……and again……I just got carried avay………my bad.

          Life with no parole AND 1,000 years……kind of just rolls off the tongue in such a fine manner.

        • Malisha says:

          Just occurred to me:

          Not illegal to follow
          How is it illegal to walk in the rain?

      • Trained Observer says:

        Jenna Lauer would have made a NEN call, complaining about how the boarded up windows were bringing down neighborhood home values.

        • Xena says:

          @Trained Observer.

          Jenna Lauer would have made a NEN call, complaining about how the boarded up windows were bringing down neighborhood home values.

          Yep, and that because there have been burglaries, she’s too scared to find out who lives there.

          • Trained Observer says:

            Jeremy wanted to go take a look, but she told him to get back inside at their place.

      • pat deadder says:

        Taaffe you plant corn you get corn.

        • Xena says:

          @pat deadder. Wonder what Taaffe would feel like if he was blamed for the death of his 2 sons on a daily basis? How would he defend himself against poor parenting skills, alcoholism, and inability to pay his mortgage?

          • racerrodig says:

            He had restraining orders against him and was not allowed at either funeral when the rest of the family was there and didn’t actually care. What a guy………what a guy……

            When our son gets into any mischief and I have to “drop the hammer” as we say, and I’ve never had to spank him, I do all kinds of soul searching looking for what I may have done wrong as a dad !! Could I have done anything different. It usually comes down to “….he’s kid…he’s a teenager…” and that’s what they do.

            Taaffe & Fogen together !! A hahahahahahahahahahahaha !!

            Not exactly any “Father of the Year” material there for damn sure.

          • Xena says:


            Not exactly any “Father of the Year” material there for damn sure.

            With Taaffe losing 2 sons to death; one by suicide and another by car accident, one would think that he would be embracing Sybrina and Tracy relating to what they do have in common rather than vilifying Trayvon. But then, maybe Taaffe doesn’t love either of his sons.

          • ladystclaire says:

            @Xena, I don’t believe this moron Taaffe is capable of loving anybody or anything except for himself. then again, he may not even love himself because if he did, he wouldn’t keep up his drinking habit. but, I don’t give a darn about him or his liver so I say to him, DRINK UP AND, DRINK AS MUCH AS YOU WANT TO.

            His belly is already looking like that of a four month pregnancy so, I think his liver is taking a pretty hard hit from his years of alcohol abuse.

          • pat deadder says:

            Xena Wonder what taaffe would feel like if he was blamed for the death of his 2 sons.imho Taaffe is a no feeling dangerous drunk.Him and fogen were a lethal combination.Remember in one of fogen’s nen calls about a black youth around Taaffe’s place . so the police came and had to close the windows.Why would taaffe leave the windows open and go away with all the break ins. And when fogen phoned about Trayvon he had to make sure the dispatcher knew he lived in a HOME we must all remember they are not apartments.fogen is reporting a suspicious person but wants to make sure the dispatcher knows he lives in a HOME not an apartment.I can’t comprehend all this.The little details just reinforce how deeply crazy he is.

          • Malisha says:

            Sobering thought.

            I actually think Taaffe’s parental behavior probably did have a lot to do with the death of his sons. Struggling to build your self-esteem while growing up in the control of a vicious abuser is no easy task. Their mother must have been strong and protective, but it is hard to overcome the constant drumbeat of psychological abuse, scorn and contempt from an overcontrolling self-important assaholic parent.

      • chills101 says:

        It’s sad but so true…. Those guys were something else.

        • Xena says:

          @chills101. What I wonder is if people who win by cheating have a conscience? O’Mara demonstrated his nature when he objected to expert voice analysts because those who are experts ruled out GZ being the voice screaming. Then, what he did with asking the court to violate Florida Supreme Court rules and order Trayvon’s parents out of the courtroom; cheating by allowing Donnelley sit in court 2 days and then subpoenaing him as a witness — oh, I could go on and on.

          And now that his former “client” got money for a gun and security and skipped town, I wonder how O’Mara feels? He should have gotten a motion for legal fees before the court ASAP because GZ is not going to pay him anymore than he paid the attorney who represented him against Aames — which was zilch!

          • ladystclaire says:

            @Xena, GOOD for O’dirthy that his star IDIOT has more than likely skipped out on him, taking with him probably more than the 12,000 given to him by racist gun fanatics. also, what about the 24,000 dollar law suit from the first security company? not to mention the money laundering by Fogen, ShelLie, Robbie the Racist and his sister and her husband.

            Are these people going to get away with this as well? if so, who is bankrolling them and, keeping them from going to jail for what they did as far as the money and hidden passport is concerned?

            Why should they be allowed to get away with all of this criminal activity and, never be held accountable for a damn thing that they have done? they are all nothing but a bunch of liars and media whores who have been hoodwinking the ignorant racist of this country, when they (the zimmerman parents) were not living on the run because of death threats. they got over being afraid for their lives, pretty soon after their evil spawn got away with murdering a child. I wonder how much did Barbra Walters dangle in front of their eyes, that took the fear away from them.

            Fogen has more than likely got a hefty sum of money on him as he is traveling and, is no longer afraid as well. I don’t believe for one minute, that any of these idiots were receiving threats of any kind.

          • Xena says:

            @ladystclaire. Yeah, it’s kinda hard to issue threats when no one knows where to send them.

            Since he was found not guilty, he could open up a bank account. Bet you O’Mara and West wish now that he couldn’t. If they send him an invoice, he might call the cops on them like he did his Landlord and the server at his (non) graduation party.

    • Soulcatcher says:

      I’ll bet he would have said, “they got free food and lodging, and no bills to pay, what more could they ask for”?

  25. cielo62 says:

    Zimmy will get his comeuppance.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      I’m wondering what he was doing there in Texas, there’s a violent leader of the Aryan Nation imprisoned somewhere in Texas, could he have gone to get close enough to the prison, for the purposes of using whatever communication channels they have open? Well, first things first, gotta find out which prison the guy’s being held in.

  26. concernedczen says:


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