The prosecution concealed police corruption in Zimmerman trial

Saturday, July 20, 2013

Good evening my friends:

The jury delivered its verdict in the George Zimmerman trial a week ago tonight. I was shocked and dismayed by the verdict. Like most of you I initially focused my wrath on stealth juror B-37 because she basically admitted on national television approximately 12 hours after the verdict was announced to having decided that “George” (referring to him as though he were a personal friend) was not guilty before she heard any evidence in the case. Indeed, her summary of the evidence matched the false narrative that Mark O’Mara had been preaching and the national media had been duly reporting for a year.

She bought O’Mara’s Trayvon-is-a-thug story despite no evidence to support it. Her race-based criticism of Rachel Jenteal’s manner of speaking and her consequent decision to ignore her testimony was a breathtaking admission of racist thinking that she quite obviously regarded as acceptable normative behavior that no one would question.

When I thought she could not possibly do more damage to herself, she added insult to injury with her giddy announcement that she had reached an agreement with a literary agent to sell her story to a publishing house before the story was even written. Never mind that she or her attorney husband must have contacted the literary agent in violation of the sequestration order, unless they contacted her in the middle of the night after the verdict was announced.

I seriously doubt that literary agents accept cold calls on late Saturday nights and early Sunday mornings from unpublished authors pitching ideas for unwritten books. Thankfully, the agent had the good sense to nix the deal once she realized she was dealing with an out of control racist wacko.

I was so disgusted and angered by B-37’s false statements under oath during voir dire, her willful violations of the sequestration order and her oath to follow the jury instructions that I urged the prosecution to prosecute her for perjury. Well, I have not seen any sign that Angela Corey intends to make an example out of her to warn future jurors not to engage in those behaviors. Seems to me that such a prosecution probably is necessary in Florida to convince jurors that an oath truly is a promise to tell the truth under penalty of perjury. In addition, B-37 truly is an unrepentant racist and egregious human being who deserves to spend time in prison for who she is as well as what she did.

While I have no doubt that B-37 contributed significantly to the miscarriage of justice, she was not alone. I also hold Angela Corey and Bernie de la Rionda responsible two disastrous tactical decisions; namely, the decision to remove race from the case and the decision to refrain from aggressively attacking Investigator Chris Serino and Officer Doris Singleton for their testimony supporting Zimmerman and vouching for his credibility. Serino, in particular, deserved to be raked over the coals for tampering with witnesses at the crime scene in an attempt to convince them that the defendant uttered the terrified death shriek.

Witness tampering in a murder case is a felony punishable by up to life in prison.

I first read about Trayvon Martin’s murder while the Sanford Police Department was still investigating the case and it seemed that Zimmerman was not going to be charged.

Their reluctance to charge appeared to me to have been imposed from the top down by State Attorney Norm Wolfinger and Chief Bill Lee due to as yet unknown reasons political reasons rather than the merits of the case.

That is corruption and that is not how our legal system is supposed to work.

As soon as I reviewed the defendant’s statements, including what he said during the NEN call, I realized that this case was all about race and could not be understood without mentioning race. If Trayvon Martin had been white, for example, the defendant would not have called the police.

I wrote an article in which I stated that anyone who believed George Zimmerman’s story was necessarily a racist. That is, one had to assume that Trayvon was a violent and crazy thug who all of a sudden for no apparent reason decided to attack and attempt to kill with his bare hands a menacing stranger who had followed him in a vehicle and then on foot after Trayvon had successfully eluded him by running away and hiding in a dark area behind a building containing townhomes. No person in their right mind would do that.

The defendant described Trayvon as a stereotypical black gangsta popularized in comics and blaxploitation films. In order to believe Zimmerman, people had to believe that the stereotypical black gangsta in films actually exists in real life.

I have represented black gang-bangers from Los Angeles who were members of the notorious Crips and Bloods. They were real flesh and blood people with more than a passing interest in survival. Yes, they had participated in gang violence and killed people but they planned what they did and they acted together. They did not utter dated movie lines or issue warnings to their intended victims before shooting them. They did not wander off unarmed and alone somewhere and suddenly decide to attack and kill a stranger with their bare hands. None of them would have believed Zimmerman’s ridiculous story. Only a white racist fixated on young black males who gets a thrill out of watching movies about mean and vicious black gangstas believing that they represent real people would even be capable of making up such a ridiculous story.

I was and continue to be astonished that anyone believed his story.

I believe that the extent to which it is believed offers a pretty accurate measuring stick indicating the prevalence of racism against blacks in our current society.

George Zimmerman did not profile Trayvon Martin as a thug casing the neighborhood for a house to burglarize in the RTL around 7 pm on a rainy Sunday night in late February because Trayvon was wearing a hoodie and walking around in the rain. He profiled him because he was a young black male and he invented a self-defense claim to justify killing him by describing Trayvon Martin as character in a movie.

Race was the proverbial elephant in the living room and the prosecution should never have agreed not to mention it. Zimmerman selected Trayvon because he was black and he hunted him down and attempted to detain him because he assumed certain things about him because he was black. He was the aggressor because he was determined to prevent him from escaping out the back entrance before the police arrived just like all of the other fucking coons and assholes who got away.

A review of all of the defendants NEN calls establishes that he obsessed about blacks. Black residents of the RTL had negative experiences with him where he accused them of wrongdoing. A visible pattern emerges of Zimmerman repeatedly assuming that blacks engaging in normal activities actually were up to no good and he called the police NEN to report them.

All of this evidence was relevant to why he selected Trayvon and why he killed him

As John Guy said, “George Zimmerman did not shoot Trayvon Martin because he had to. He shot him because he wanted to.”And he did it because Trayvon was black.

In other words, he committed a federal hate crime and I hope the Justice Department prosecutes him.

I do not know why the prosecution decided not to stress the importance of race. I imagine Angela Corey made the decision with Bernie de la Rionda’s consent. I do not believe John Guy or Richard Mantei participated in that decision. I think Corey and de la Rionda owe us an explanation.

They also inexplicably allowed Chris Serino and Doris Singleton to support George Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense. I can understand not wanting to attack a law enforcement agency in order to avoid incurring the probable wrath of other law enforcement agencies. However, once Serino and Singleton turned against the prosecution, Bernie de la Rionda should have torn Serino to shreds by bringing out that he tampered with witnesses to get them to identify George Zimmerman as the person who uttered the terrified death shriek and he set up Tracy Martin at his most vulnerable moment to deny in front of other officers, including Singleton, that he could positively identify Trayvon as the person screaming.

Serino was obviously following orders issued before he arrived at the crime scene. The fix was in and the orders were issued from the top down. He ran that investigation to produce the appearance of an investigation and he only varied from that course of action at the last minute when he realized that the department was not going to get away with not charging Zimmerman. I think he made that decision on his own hoping to save his job and hoping people would not look closely at what he did.

I think he was a trusted player in the corruption game or the Chief would not have put him in charge of the investigation.

Bernie de la Rionda also should have confronted Singleton for wearing awards on her uniform that she had not earned.

The verdict in this case might well have been different if Angela Corey and Bernie de la Rionda had not made these decisions.

The bottom line is Chris Serino and Doris Singleton are corrupt cops in a corrupt police department. They still have their jobs and that suggests that the effort to clean-up the department is only for the sake of appearances.

The prosecution’s decision to allow them to lie and gut their case to justify and conceal how they mishandled the investigation bespeaks a form of intolerable corruption in which Angela Corey and Bernie de la Rionda aided and abetted corrupt police work.

And the end result is that a racist lying psychopath is now free to kill again.

That is why I cannot and will not accept this verdict as legitimate, ever.

This is why I join with LLMPapa in urging Attorney General Eric Holder to prosecute George Zimmerman for a hate crime.

I regret to say that I do not believe Zimmerman will be charged with a hate crime. I fear the decision will be made for political reasons rather than on the merits of the case itself.

Assuming I am right that will add even more corruption to a corrupt and shameful case.

At the very least, by speaking truth to power, we draw a line in the sand and declare for all who have eyes to see that we are not fooled by the appearance of justice. We saw through to the corrupt core of this case and in this way we honor Trayvon Martin and his memory.

1,070 Responses to The prosecution concealed police corruption in Zimmerman trial

  1. Malisha says:

    Perhaps these folks think I’m making false allegations against them. Oh Boo Hoo Hoo Hoo effin HOOOOOOO!

    • sparger says:

      That makes more sense than protecting that idiot George. Hopefully one day one of them will come forward and do the right thing.

      • Malisha says:

        Not unless they are persistently hounded and outed and damaged and made uncomfortable and etc. etc.

        People don’t do the right thing that easily when they have already turned over to the dark side.

        • aussie says:

          “Not unless they are persistently hounded and outed and damaged and made uncomfortable and etc. etc.”

          happens to blacks all the time, I’ve heard.

  2. Malisha says:

    I think I have figured out whom Serino was protecting, other than Fogen: Tim Smith.

    Think of it. Did any police officer who put in a report say that he had been dispatched to the crime scene by an NEN call? Not one. So naturally, since there were more than half a dozen 911 calls, nobody would think to ask, “Well who was dispatched by Sean?”

    Tim Smith was dispatched by Sean.

    But by the time he arrived on the scene the 911s had rolled in.

    Why would Serino have to protect Tim Smith?

    Because it was a little thing Tim Smith and Fogen had cooked up to take care of the problem Fogen was having with the complaints being lodged against him. He’d call NEN, Tim Smith would come to the scene and discover that during his trip over to the neighborhood, Fogen had been attacked and therefore had to draw his gun in self defense and restrain “the suspect” who was trying to get away. Tim Smith gave out the initial stories for the other cops to use. Tim Smith and Fogen rode to the station house planning out the narrative. Serino had to protect that because since Fogen had actually KILLED his prey, Tim Smith would be in trouble for participating in this little “hero-citizen-show” that ended with a death. Had it ended in Trayvon’s arrest, Smith would have testified to seeing Trayvon beating up Fogen and Fogen finally being able to restrain him because, as luck would have it, the good guy was packing.

    Serino was protecting Tim Smith. Only by proxy he ended up the advocate for a murderer.

    This is speculation. But it makes a LOT MORE SENSE than the stories we have been sold.

    Furthermore, which officer WAS dispatched by Sean? Sean did say he was sending an officer over there to meet Fogen. All of the others entered later and with guns drawn so it wasn’t them.

  3. Boyd says:

    I just heard that Fogen had a fire extinguisher with him for this ‘accident’.

    WTF! Who carries a fire extinguisher in the car? Besides, who would think the car would catch fire?

    This story is too bizarre, normal for this fraud family.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      boyd — i carry a fire extinguisher in my car along with a serious first aid kit and any other items i expect i may need in a variety of emergency situations. some of us relatively ‘normal’ people do — it’s just something i learned from my folks. when i drove a vintage 62 mercury, i carried a full set of belts and hoses, spare rebuilt generators and starters, and the very nice tool kit my father assembled for me. i actually used all of those items at some point and had room in a trunk that would sleep a family of four comfortably.

      • Boyd says:

        In the old days. my dad carried one in the station wagon we used for camping trips. I’ve seen cars catch fire in the old days including the family’s VW van.

        But Today with these newer cars. I’m surprised. I find the entire story suspect. 5:45 pm, work hour traffic and Fogen is the only guy around.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @boyd — i freely admit that i carry more in the emergency supplies dept than the average person — i also choose to travel the roads less traveled (when i was single and now as a family). if i were to get to the california coast from my location, it is a long, circuitous route which takes through places i do not wish to be. i prefer to take the partially unpaved forest service roads leading from my location directly to the coast and see things that please me. because of my style, i do take extra precautions and know that survival is based on my own self reliance.

          regarding the ‘fogen saves family’ story, you can consider me a total skeptic. considering his all to recent court appearances, you would think that even if this event occurred exactly as stated, that he would take any reasonable steps to keep his name out of it then we get back to the fact that this is not a reasonable person.

        • racerrodig says:

          It’s a damn good thing Officer Wagner wasn’t the 1st on the scene or we’d have photographic evidence……in about a months.

          Now, with all those death threats, Fogen was alone…..no Osterman, no SheLie, no Osterman………really ??

          It’s a bullshit story and we’d have known about it last week. Even Robbie the Racist didn’t know until yesterday meaning it didn’t happen.

      • cielo62 says:

        faux mccoy~ DAMN! Have you ever been on The Price is Right? You carry EVERYTHING!

        ________________________________

  4. Boyd says:

    Gladass Zimmerman made a comment on one of those talk shows (Barbara Walters?) about teaching Fogen not to show emotion.

    So then how do so many people come forward to claim that’s Fogen screaming?

  5. colin black says:

    Now aday us peasants don’t have to storm the bastions to make a point an to be heard.

    With the advent of social media an instan accsess to communication globealy.

    Us peasants now have the power at our finger tips to be heard an take action an make a difference.

    Dictatorships entrenched for fifty odd years have come crashing down in the Middle East Tunisa the beating death of a fruit saleman for not paying illeagll rent to police

    Hit the internet an within months Tunisan Government GONE
    Eygipt Libia an Syria in the misdst of being gone.

    So don’t think we haven’t got the power right now to instigate change.

    John Lenon used to sing about ower to the People.

    WELL

    The innerwebb is power to the people right now.

    riptray.

  6. Nef05 says:

    Does anyone know when the Florida man, Walter “inconvenienced by his arrest because he had ā€œonly shot a n*gger.ā€ Butler is scheduled for trial? OR, failing that – at what point the process is, at this time? Anyone have a link to the available discovery released, since it’s also Floriduh? At least this fool also has a “hate crime” enhancement for THIS crime. It may well be one we also might like to follow here, along with Davis/Dunn. I, personally, would enjoy discussions of how the hate crime enhancement is used/presented, and juxtapose it against the Martin and Davis trials, where they aren’t/weren’t – but, I believed they should be/have been. JMO

    http://globalgrind.com/news/walton-henry-butleri-arrested-shot-black-man-unjust-because-he-only-shot-ngger-video

  7. Boyd says:

    Remember, the Zimmerman believers are likely the same type people who believed that WMD nonsense. remember? when they could not find it in Iraq, it was either buried in the sand or sent to Syria. They will never admit they are wrong about Trayvon.
    They just threw out that Jane’s testimony as nonsense.

    • crazy1946 says:

      What do we expect from a group that gets their news from a source called FAUX or from talk radio hosts that stir the pot of hatred against people who do not share the same color skin as they do?

    • Malisha says:

      Boyd, there are plenty of faked-up spurious arguments available to anybody who wants to side with an abuser. Oldest trick in the book, as well as probably the most nauseating. “Oh Trayvon was prolly just a hooligan so we can excuse not only murder but corruption and police cover-up and perversion of our courts and public theater of the most expensive and dishonest kind.”

      Every one who participated in this scandal: be damned. And not just in that kind of post-mortem “Hell” where you are punished for sins. Be damned right here on earth where it won’t matter what religious exemptions you claim for your wrongdoing. Let it not be god’s plan but the Plan B (Plan A was JUSTICE and that’s gone) that the people put you through. Rot in an earthly hell where your integrity and your humanity have already rotted.

      I hope somebody tells Serino that there are people suggesting he took bribes, sold out, got free perks from NRA, ALEC, Shellie, Gladazz, or anybody else — all without evidence HA HA HA HA HA HA HA — you know, he had to have done a lot wrong in his career and let him now think that there will be people coming out of the woodwork talking about it because his name has been passed around the rumor mill. Live in fear, Chris Serino. Because you should have had the balls to do right when it became obvious that the wrong was greater than any human being had a right to accept.

  8. Malisha says:

    I am returning to the idea that we should not circulate speculations about what made various SPD individuals or certain jurors or certain court personnel (or sheriff’s personnel or newscasters or etc. etc. etc. etc.) do what very obviously looks WRONG in the Trayvon Martin murder case.

    Let’s face it: there is very little chance that any governmental agency will ever do an honest investigation into the cover-up. It is so obvious that there was an elaborate (growing more elaborate as the protests against it grew stronger) cover-up. Yet ONLY a thorough and honest investigation and punishment of those who were corrupt will even go 10% toward a remedy for the murder of a young AA man who did no wrong.

    In view of the fact that there is SOOOOOOO little chance of a proper governmental response to the cover-up, here we are with a moral question? Is it “bad” for anybody to speculate about what made a certain individual do what was obviously wrong? Should we stand here being “nice” because we have no EVIDENCE that he did what we may guess he did? Should we hold BACK so as not to be “irrational” or “unfair” in view of the fact that members of a conspiracy will not come forward and present to us the evidence of their wrongdoing? Shall we be good, and kind, and “rational” and not say “j’accuse”?

    My answer is simple: Each of us should do exactly as we please. Those of us who would like to pray to God because Trayvon was killed, fine. Blessings on you. Those of us who want to be intellectually admirable and legalistically “PC” and only say that something went wrong and not nail anybody or call them names, great, wonderful, and write a book. Those of us who, like me, want to scream and holler about a cover-up and (probably impotently, since cover-ups are powerful and fixed-income retirees are not) accuse individuals we believe did wrong of wrongdoing, and SPECULATE about them, that’s fine with me too. WHY? Because if ever anybody ever does want to find out what happened to the society when Trayvon Martin’s murder was covered up, let my voice screaming “j’accuse j’accuse j’accuse” in my own way shape and form be part of his or her scholarly analysis. Let him or her write the sentence: “There were even bloggers calling for the incarceration of the homicide investigator and speculating that he had accepted bribes to throw the case to the defense.”

    Let it be. Do as you will. I defend absolutely every single thing I said and a good many that I have not yet had the brains to think up, about every participant in this scandalous, filthy, racist cover-up.

    • crazy1946 says:

      Exactly why some of us refuse to sit by and quietly watch the clouds go past! This whole horrific episode in our history has been denied by too many people in power! I will not be silenced by anyone as long as there is no justice for my fellow citizens. If we sit by and allow this kind of justice to continue how long until we also fall victim to the system!

      • Malisha says:

        crazy, I fell victim to it already, and that’s why I began to learn about corruption. I have been studying corruption and cover-ups for 30+ years. I’m still noways cynical enough. I thought Serino was ultimately going to tell the truth. I thought Baez’s statements that the prosecution’s case was very weak (“from the beginning”) were his way of distancing himself from Serino and that Serino was going to testify absolutely honestly about his initial disbelief of Fogen’s story and his developing realization that Fogen actually WAS both a murderer and a pathological liar.

    • Malisha says:

      Let’s say that, to me:

      Serino seemed like he was up to no good.
      He was prolly on bribes or somepin.
      I don’t know what his thing is.
      He was real suspicious.
      F*cking Punks.
      These a55holes, they always get away with their corruption.

      • aussie says:

        He did very good good-cop interviews that kept the idiot talking. He submitted him to be arrested three times. He got over-ruled three times. He may not know enough about why or who ordered it, to say anything. The judgement of “enough evidence to prosecute” is not up to the interviewing detective.

        If you want to go after a cop, try going after Tim Smith, who lied from the word go about grass stains and “I called for help but no-one came” and mysteriously said nothing to the defendant on a 15 minute car trip.

        Thirty years of fighting corruption is no real excuse for profiling any particular individual, same as 30 years of break-ins by blacks is no excuse for profiling a black teen. The end does NOT justify the means, Malisha.

        You’re no longer coming across as the rational person you were last week, sorry to say. Scattergun accusations are just guaranteed to be ignored by the people who matter, who MIGHT maybe listen to well presented provable facts.

    • colin black says:

      ditto

      Malisha but I am hopefull that just as the initial blatant injustice that let foggage walk that Febury night.

      Caused an uproar to ensue that forced his arrest

      The same will ocour at this misscarge of justice an blatant perverse verdict returned by a bias bigoted jury.

      Will again shock an have an awesome impact an this time GLOBEAL.

      Millions now have heard TRAYVONS NAME

      That wouldn’t have had there been a guilty verdict.

      God works in ways to mysterious for mankinds ken.

      Though I suspect many women have it figured out.

  9. Stormwatch says:

    I apologize. I missed the part about the witness telling the jury that the defendant only shadow boxed. I don’t believe for one minute that Zimmerman only shadow boxed. I bet there’s somebody out there that sparred with him. You don’t go to the gym like the one he was at for a year and a half without ever sparring with someone. Not to mention that Zimmerman had a previous bouncer job. Guys who fight like girls don’t handgout at the gym that specialized in training guys in kick boxing and get bouncer jobs.

  10. Stormwatch says:

    When the real estate gal who said that the screams were Zimmerman’s, she then said “but he never screamed like that” Really? How did he scream. Explain how it was that you ever heard Zimmerman scream? When was Zimmerman yelling, and who was he yelling at and why?
    And the Viet Nam veteran who said he was a medic? Pahlease. They should have researched whether he was ever really at any major battles and asked him about the difference between screams of pain, and screams of fear. Cause they are two different sounds, and those guys on the battlefield were missing arms and legs. They were screaming out of pain, which included a lot of moaning.

    • Girlp says:

      Stormwatch I thought the same thing when all these people testified it was George screaming…Does he scream in terror at work everyday, is he alway’s screaming in pain. If I were on a jury and knew nothing about the case this alone would make me wonder what’s really going on this is so unrealistic the parents are one thing but strangers?

    • MDH says:

      How would GZ be able to scream like that with Trayvon’s hands pressed on his nose and mouth?

      And the Viet Nam medic claiming he had never heard the scream before. They were playing that tape on every TV and many, many stations for months.

      What did this guy do when he was at other people’s home or in a public place? Smash the TV or make people turn it off.

      If he knows that is GZ screaming, then GZ must have been at his house fearing death. How else does one “know that is George”.

      The medic was a liar who disgraced his uniform.

      I suspect he was in one of those tents with the Stars and Bars that I have seen in Nam photos.

  11. Stormwatch says:

    Fought like a girl?? How did he fight like a girl.?Elaborate. Was he a feminine kind of guy.?Did he cry like a bitch and run away? Could he punch? Did he know how to position himself? Did he ever hit the punching bag? Did he lift weights? When you did the initial assessment and evaluation of him was he fighting like a girl? After 18 months with you, he was still fighting like a girl? Did the guys you paired him with for sparring think they were fighting a girl?

    Zimmerman never fought like a girl. If he did, the gym rats would not have tolerated him. He was part of the group. He was becoming a bad ass. That witness should have been torn to shreds to the point of admitting everything he taught his racist friend about self defense.

    • MDH says:

      The fact that this guy states “fight like a girl” is a big tell that he is a BS artist.

      When I took some courses in Tae Kwon Do, the instructors wife left some mean bruises all over my arms just from practicing blocks and strikes. This, of course, also points to the absurd position taken by the defense that GZ could be pummeled 20 to 30 times by Trayvon, yet have not one defensive cut or bruise on his hands or forearms.

      Then there was the wee little 100lbs women who sounded like she was chopping wood when she hit the heavy bag.

      I fail to see how GZ would not have learned how to rotate wrists to drill his punches after 18 months of training.

      And then there is the question of strength.

      GZ carried at least 25lbs more muscle mass on a frame with better leverage than Trayvon.

      I have been going to the gym for 30 years and guys built like GZ will squat weights far in excess of boys built like Trayvon.

      So the question about grappling is paramount in that the struggle appeared to be more of a wrestling match wherein top and bottom positions were in flux.

      • Dave says:

        Trayvon would have had the edge in a boxing match due to his height and reach advantage as well as (apparently) some experience in informal bareknuckle contests (as evidenced by his text messages). With his training and weight advantage, GZ should have had a decisive edge in a wrestling match. Even there though, he had to resort to the gun. What a pansy!

  12. Stormwatch says:

    Hindsight being 20/20..when the gym rat who trained Zimmerman for a year and a half said that Zimmerman fought like a girl, he should have been hammered relentlessly on cross examination to the point of being forced to admit that Zimmerman fought nothing like a pre-adolescent female. He would not be pairing the guy with sparring partners if he fought like a girl. And where were Zimmerman’s sparring partners to say whether or not he fought like a girl? The more I look back in retrospect, the more frustrated I get.

    • LBTG says:

      That doesn’t give a good advertisement for the gym. So why would they advertise training program like Zimmerman had on their website. Why wouldn’t they hammer on the quality of their program – like taking fogen’s money and not delivering results.

    • Dave says:

      Pollock testified that he didn’t let GZ fight at all–just shadow box and heavy bag practice. Interestingly he didn’t say anything about the grappling program that the killer was in before he switched to boxing.

    • camanokat says:

      My daughter fights like a girl and I advise NOBODY to challenge her! You could get seriously hurt.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        @camanokat — great to hear about your daughter!

        there is a long and steady stream of boys, teens and grown men who would be ashamed and embarrassed to admit what it was like to be picking their sorry asses off the ground for engaging with my physically.

  13. diary73 says:

    Dear Professor,

    May we have a new thread? Pretty please.

    Thanks,

    Diary

  14. endlessummer76 says:

    I know everyone is waiting on the new post, and I will re-post this there:

    http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/trayvon-martin-protests-jay-z-madonna-and-other-stars-boycotting-florida-report-2013237

    Stevie Wonder’s boycott is going mainstream!

  15. crazy1946 says:

    dianetrotter, I would be willing to bet she is a big fan of Rush L… That is the type of trash he was throwing out during the trial! I also agree it is scary for our nation when people are so willing to listen to trash talkers that state their opinions as if they were fact….

  16. dianetrotter says:

    I’m trying to enlighten a woman who is dumb as a concrete slab. She said Trayvon’s mother told him not to go over there but he went any way. She said he had no business being there. She said his school friends testified about what a problem he was in school and it shows how bad he was. Even those who thought Trayvon deserved it asked where she got her information from. It is so scary that there are people walking around in this ignorant bliss.

  17. acemayo says:

    Look what happen to the Indian of this country
    History just repeating itself with other race

    • crazy1946 says:

      It’s almost like a grown up version of the school yard “my daddy can whip your daddy” talk we heard as children. It’s the need to put down someone else so you can be better than them…. Only in this case it is the people in charge of the nation that are doing it, and that is not necessarily those people that are elected to be in charge….

  18. silk says:

    have any body herd the stupid shit that came out of charles barkley mouth ? he was the only black i ran into that made himself look like a fucken fool . had the nerve to say the evidence. i know that Dr. martin luther king turn over in his grave. charles barkley is a jackass . a complete idiot!! forgive for my conduct , but the shit pissed off. he needed to STFU!!!

  19. silk says:

    now they want us to beleave that zimmerman saving a family is true. every thing related to this clown has been staged . from the bloodie nose photo-shop to trayvons screams. may be this is some type of ploy to avoid federal charges. i dont beleave shit about the rescue story. especially when u have the racist sanford police involed . i take it as an admission of guilt . diverting everyones attention from the racist bacteria that he and the criminal justice is in florida .

    • Woow! says:

      People are not going to accept Zimmerman as being a good kind person or a hero.

      They should not need to push that narrative.

      • ladystclaire says:

        I know I’m “NEVER” going to accept “ANYTHING” about this SOB, who murdered a child and, lied his way out of it, along with LE and, those who are just as racist and evil as he is. this also includes the jury. the only thing I want to hear of this B*****D is, that the DOJ will bring charges against him for a hate crime.

        There is no way that they can keep putting lipstick on this “PIG” literally, and he will not remain a “PIG” because in my minds eye, he will forever more be just that.

      • Trained Observer says:

        If I were in a wrecked car and Fogen approached, he’d end up being very, very sorry by the time I got done with his eyeballs.

  20. crazy1946 says:

    Has there been any point in recorded history of this world that there was justice that was not tainted by racial/ethnic prejudice? I know that in this country there has never been justice available for all people regardless of race…… Will we ever reach the point that we will achieve true justice for all?

    • aussie says:

      There are countries which are so predominantly the one ethnicity that the minorities are invisible.

      Traditionally the divide was between rich and poor. Upper and lower classes. Nobility and peasants. Intelligentsia and proletariat. Whatever names you want, comes down to rich and poor.

      The lawmakers are invariably the rich, and the laws naturally favour them..Of course laws related to property will protect those with property. Owning land was often the criterion for being allowed to vote. (Being male not necessarily but of course land ownership was restricted to them, so….)

      It is still the same. The divide is between the haves and the have-nots. With more workers becoming middle class, the poor are harder to recognise. Unless, conveniently, the minorities that LOOK different are kept poor. With AA there’s the added “insult” that former “property” is daring to claim humanity.

      Europeans who didn’t look too different (Irish, Italians, Poles etc) had no trouble melding into mainstream America, after an initial period of discrimination while they “spoke funny”.

      Even a simple thing like stop & frisk — only effects those who have to walk. No S&F for motor vehicles, is there? Wonderful due process legal system but the poor can’t afford to defend themselves. The most advanced medical treatments but half the country can’t afford it.

      Back when lower classes “knew their place” everything was hunky-dory. Often they were treated charitably. But now, with supposed equality and equal opportunity — there is a huge danger of others climbing up to overtake your position, wherever you are.

      I think it would help to rephrase the problem to omit race and prejudice from a lot of the discussion, as these words automatically put on the defensive the very people who need to change… and “defensive” to them means a mixture of offensive and going deaf.

    • Woow! says:

      This is an old article and I most people knew he used racist language in both emails and text messages to residents and the HOA.

      Why did JN allow MOM’s motion to have that evidence excluded and sealed is beyond me.

      • ladystclaire says:

        IIRC, this was sealed by Judge Lester and the state was in agreement with the defense, that it should be SEALED UNTIL THE TRIAL, and then they turned around and never used it. IMO, the prosecution threw this case on purpose at the urging of the governor of Florida.

        IMO, this is why Angela Corey bypassed a grand jury and, brought the second degree murder herself. she knew there was to be no conviction in this case because of what the SPD and SA Norm Wolfinger did and didn’t do. most of all how they tried to sweep this murder of a child at the hands of Fogen, under the proverbial rug.

        I don’t remember where I read an article, that detailed this very thing but, and the author of that article wasn’t wrong. also, it is my belief, that Fogen knew this was all a farce.

      • Malisha says:

        I always assumed that he had done that and THAT is why it was sealed. It would not be hard to see that if the prosecution was working with the defense to keep this case from becoming as bad and as large as it really WAS, they would go along with hiding the incendiary stuff.

    • sparger says:

      That from early July. If this is true why didn’t the proscution use it.

      • smokeegyrl says:

        I have been browsing this… They said it was sealed… I am writing the NAACP..

      • Girlp says:

        They did not charge with a hate crime and said they would only say that George profiled Trayvon (left race out of that too). They said it would prejudice the jury….I’m hoping somethings there the DOJ is suppose to have all the evidence whether used in the trail or not so they should have this but it doesn’t hurt to tell the DOJ that the text and emails…unless of course they lost them since thats what crooked police departments do.

      • Xena says:

        @sparger.

        That from early July. If this is true why didnā€™t the proscution use it.

        The prosecution was not trying GZ for racial profiling. While the defense slithered race into the case through testimony such as the neighbor who GZ bought a lock for, the State’s hands were pretty much tied due to Judge Nelson’s order preventing both parties from using the phrase “racial profiling.” The State agreed to this pre-trial.

        Hate crime falls under federal jurisdiction. Federal cases are not subject to Florida’s Sunshine Law. The feds can prepare their case without the public having discovery documents.

        The feds have jurisdiction to obtain, examine, and use, all communications that GZ conducted in other states, before and during his eluding arrest, to after he was released on bond.

    • smokeegyrl says:

      Instead of writing the NAACP in Washington, I called them and told them about what I was reading and they had me read it to them, told them it was on blogs and the dates… what it said. They are going to get their media people to investigate it and call the State to see if these files do exists to see if they are sealed… they thanked me.

      • cielo62 says:

        smokeegyrl~ YOU GO GYRL!!! I remember these texts and etc being sealed and never mentioned again. I sure do HOPE they can get those damned things unsealed pronto!

        ________________________________

    • cielo62 says:

      smokeegyrl~ This would be part of the evidence that the DoJ picked up earlier this week. It was NEVER mentioned during trial. Like I said, there is MORE than enough for a hate crime indictment and conviction. Written and eye witnesses also round that out.

      ________________________________

      • smokeegyrl says:

        True that, but when talking to Washington this morning, whoever answer the phone said they never heard of what I was reading them and in his voice was excited. So who knows. I hope you are right. Thanks…

      • smokeegyrl says:

        True that, but when talking to Washington this morning, whoever answer the phone said they never heard of what I was reading them and in his voice was excited. So who knows. I hope you are right. Thanks…

    • willisnewton says:

      This is not an “article” it’s a blog post and an old and likely inaccurate one at that, that links to another dubious website as the “source,” where the “source” is described as “sources say.”

      Can you see the circular reasoning here?

      What is known about potentially racist emails is that GZ’s phone was in the hands of the SPD briefly and then after his arrest, was searched by the investigative team attached to the FL special prosecutor’s office. During early pre-trial hearings in the case, mention was made in open court about emails that contained references to a “reverend” and some other parties, the details of which I don’t fully recall at present.

      This may or may not have been emails FROM Zimmerman, but it seems like they were IIRC. One assumes the reverend was Al Sharpton. The email or texts seemed to date from the time post-killing when GZ was in hiding.

      The material was deemed not admissible at trial because the communication occurred after the killing and thus had no direct bearing on the crime that was charged.

      No known emails about “n-words” have surfaced to date regarding communications GZ made in any capacity.

      • smokeegyrl says:

        It doesn’t matter anymore as where I stand, I gave NAACP the information, I let them know it is a blog, that there were more blogs, and also notice a newsfeed of some sort on Google… it’s done… they know about it… they can further do the research… it they find it credible fine… for me… it is worth looking into… anything that is out there that is said or done… it worth it… the dates on those blogs were April 2012, May 2012 and recently in 2013… the newsfeed was of 11 of 2012… so you never know.

  21. Woow! says:

    While we are distracted debating Zimmerman

    Ray ā€œStop ā€˜n Friskā€ Kelly is being considered for the next head of Homeland Security by POTUS. How did they sneak that one in on us.

    “NYPDā€™s Ray Kelly: ā€˜You canā€™t police withoutā€™ stop-and-frisk”

    God help us all…. blacks and Latinos are about to live hell on earth if this man is put into power to institute the same racist BS he has in New York. I watched a video last night of how the NY cops treat minorities. NY officer referred to one young man as a mutt.

    • Malisha says:

      You CAN police without stop-and-frisk. In fact, SAF is done when the police would like to do easy “rack up the arrests” kind of work rather than crime prevention and crime solving. If you stop and frisk all day, you can bring in two or three “criminals” who WEREN’T DOING ANYTHING WRONG, whereas if you have to work crimes and do protection services all day, you may not get any “collars” and your work might not get you any pretty medals on your dress-up shirt.

      • Woow! says:

        Also, it has not been factually established that SAF is preventing killings or crimes.

        The people who will get stopped and frisked will primarily be minorities (blacks and Latinos) if this man is put in charge at the federal level.

        Cop already discriminate and racial profile unchecked and commit all kinds of civil rights violations against minorities. I think some of it may be explicit racism by some cops but I think most if it originates from the fact that our society associates young black males and now Latinos with violent crime. Only crimes committed by blacks are reported in the news 24/7. If the media would report all crime, people would begin to see that whites commit the same or more.

        My fear is if Kelly is put in that position police will have unfettered discretion that will allow police abuses like we have not yet seen.

      • aussie says:

        Repurposed thrift shop medals, don’t forget. They make you look soooo much a hero.

    • crazy1946 says:

      Can you imagine how long S&F would last if the targeted population group was White? How long before the SCOTUS would become involved is that were the case? The question that again must be asked is why should any young person be afraid to walk down the street? Should any citizen who has committed no crime be forced to live in fear of the police? Then the real question that will never be answered, why do we as a country allow any citizen to be subjected to tyranny such as this?

      • Woow! says:

        It would not last … homeland security has been operating unchecked since its inception.

        At the rate things are going every right that has been fought for will be taken away right before our eyes.

      • cielo62 says:

        crazy~ Because we the people have NO RECOURSE! What do you do when the law you depend on is itself corrupted? I do believe that the 4th Amendment against unreasonable search and seizure has been suspended here in Houston. Nearly every weekend during the summer there are “no refusal weekends” so that if you are stopped RANDOMLY at a checkpoint, you can be forced to submit to a breathalyzer or blood test. I refuse to go anywhere whenever a “no refusal weekend” is announced. I don’t drink and drive; heck I barely drink at all! But it’s that whole “cop with attitude and a badge” can pull one over for NO REASON AT ALL and be treated like a criminal. Unless one is wealthy, you can’t fight.

        ________________________________

        • crazy1946 says:

          One of the greatest problems we share is that the various law enforcement groups nation wide is full of too many Fogdoit type of individuals. Not all police are bad, but too many are copies of the Fogdoit…. They have the supreme power, a badge connected to a gun…..

        • aussie says:

          Here in Australia we have random breath tests — for motorists only. They pull up 6 or 8 consecutive vehicles up from a distance (so they can’t see who’s in it or what kind of vehicle it is). They are not allowed to set up within 3 blocks of a bar or other place that sells alcohol, to prevent them targetting patrons. The police vehicles are clearly marked and visible from a distance. That is the fair way to do it.

  22. crazy1946 says:

    A few things to consider. The gun that the Fogdoit used, was as he claimed, not his but instead belonged to Shel-lie. So could the local PD actually given possession of said gun to him? The next and more important thing to consider is, we need to work to ensure that she does go to trial and is convicted of a felony. I don’t care if she only receives a one day sentence or a fine. My attorney has told me that if she is convicted it will in effect nullify the ability of the Fogdoit to legally acquire or maintain a CCW permit. His argument is that there would be no reasonable means to prevent his felon wife from access to the weapon, thus he would not be permitted to have it in his residence or auto that she had access to…. Divorce? Angry wife spills beans on murdering husband? Drama?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      All the evidence in the case, including the firearm, was handed over to DOJ yesterday.

      • crazy1946 says:

        I was aware of that. What I am afraid of is that this will not lead to an impartial investigation, but instead is simply another case of out of sight, out of mind investigation and they will sit on the case until the people go about their business in disgust…..

  23. smokeegyrl says:

    Los Angeles City Councilman Bernard C. Parks Tuesday will introduce a resolution to fellow council members asking for their support of a federal investigation into the death of Trayvon Martin.

    http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/07/23/bernard-parks-to-introduce-resolution-supporting-federal-probe-into-trayvon-martins-death/#.Ue6UW0QOir8.twitter

    • cielo62 says:

      smokeegyrl~ It’s a small step in the right direction.

      ________________________________

    • smokeegyrl says:

      The article above mentions the PEW so below url is the PEW poll. wow… Now I know what it is called PEW… you can see the divide here.

      http://www.people-press.org/2013/07/22/big-racial-divide-over-zimmerman-verdict/

      • Deborah Moore says:

        Thanks for posting this. I mentioned this a few comments ago, but didn’t have a link.
        Quite amazing, isn’t it?
        Are you in LA? I am, and I think I’ll sent an email to Parks, thanking him.

        • Deborah Moore says:

          I could not find an email address for Parks, but I just got off the phone with his office, supporting his action today.
          We do what we can, right?

    • diary73 says:

      I do hope that more cities follow suit. There is nothing right about a person who actively pursues a teen (Anyone ever heard of stranger danger?), does not identify who he is, and shoots this minor when the minor tries to defend himself.

      The story he contrived was utterly ridiculous, farfetched, and riddled with lies.

      This is a travesty that every city and state needs to protest!

      When more articles begin to surface titled, “I Am Not Travon Martin,” and speaks of the understanding of the plight of the Black man from a white person’s perspective, more might take note.

      Conservatives to believe this verdict to speak of something wrong need to speak out.

      Those of us who have sympathized with Trayvon from the beginning can only scream so loudly. We need those who might not ordinarily sympathize with the Trayvons of the world to speak out LOUDLY!

  24. LBTG says:

    Where are you Professor Leatherman? Miss your postings.

  25. crazy1946 says:

    While we have all been angered and disappointed by the verdict in the Fogdoit trial, there is one good thing that could come out of his acquittal.. If we could get an unbiased government agency (state or federal) to do an in depth investigation to the events leading up to and on the night of the murder of Trayvon Martin, there would very possibly be several co conspirators facing charges in the murder. Jana and Jeremy, Osterman, Taffee, and others could possibly be charged. With some of the comments that were made by Taffee and Jana along with the statements of Jeremy, tied to and with the death scream tape, and Jana’s 911 call, could very well be enough information to launch a factual investigation…. One can only hope that there is at least one legal agency that has enough integrity to attempt such a task…..

    • Malisha says:

      We’re hoping for that from DOJ, which is exactly who SHOULD do it. Meanwhile ACLU is not particularly interested in government corruption when it only deprives African Americans of their civil rights, and even the NYCLU would only give a “colorblind” little comment like “life interest is really cool and all” so who knows.

      • Beverly says:

        I beg to differ. ACLU has been on the front lines for years on many important issues. As we speak, they are working hard on death penalty issues, among others.

        • Malisha says:

          Oh I don’t disagree with the fact that they’re working the death sentence cases. I meant the social issues they choose and the economic issues they choose. They’re not choosing the Trayvon Martin murder and they haven’t chosen any “life interest” cases involving government corruption.

          Death sentence cases are “organization-easy.”

  26. Woow! says:

    @cielo62 —- What is going on in your neck of the woods? Lets see how this stand your ground case is handled..

    HPD: Rifle-toting woman shoots, kills man outside gas station in SE Houston

    • Malisha says:

      I don’t think a woman can get away with SYGGING a man.
      I don’t think a Black can get away with SYGGING anybody.
      I only think whites and Afro-Peruvians (or security guards for corporations) can SYG folks.

    • cielo62 says:

      Woow!~ Really bizarre! I saw the video. I think she will be No Billed by the Grand Jury. The man struck her, she fell back and then she shot him. What was REALLY REALLY weird is that she NEVER called 911 or even appeared upset at all! She made one cell phone call, then calmly drove off!! Don’t expect this to get anywhere.

      ________________________________

      • Two sides to a story says:

        If she had time to retrieve a firearm from a trunk, why didn’t she just get into the vehicle and drive away? Looks like murder to me, but probably won’t be in Texas.

        • cielo62 says:

          Two Sides~ She had business at the gas station, so she was somewhere she had the “right to be.” She warned him off with the rifle, BUT he continued to harass her. She only shot AFTER he struck her. SYG. I believe the grand jury will No Bill this one.

          ________________________________

        • Two sides to a story says:

          Sick. Completely unjustifiable.

          I’m leaving this country ASAP.

          • cielo62 says:

            Two Sides~ I’m just calling it like I see texans call it. What do you expect from the state that refused to even bring Joe Horn to trial?

            ________________________________

          • Woow! says:

            You got that right…. horn should be on death row for shooting those men in the back.

          • cielo62 says:

            Woow~! In those days, I was one of the lone voices crying in the wilderness about due process, etc… against the concrete-headed racists of Houston who called him a hero and set up a defense fund for him. IN THE BACK! What a effen COWARD. Today I hear he’s a broke and broken man, living withdrawn from society with family supporting him. Hispanics are hated here even more than AAs.

            ________________________________

          • Two sides to a story says:

            I’ve avoided that state for years, actually.

          • Woow! says:

            @Two sides to a story —

            Ceilo and I live in TX… it is what it is. The cops scare the bejeezus out of me in this state. I get a lot of DWB (driving while black).

            Cops like to get behind you or on the side and run your tag.

          • cielo62 says:

            Woow!~ Even as a “white hispanic” I also fear the cops around here. They have NO accountability.

            ________________________________

          • pat deadder says:

            Oh Two sides I know it’s not funny but when you said I’m leaving this country ASAP it struck me funny.Seriously Canada is not perfect but we do have free heath and I don’t know anyone who owns a gun so if ever you want to uproot yourself and come to our country I’m an old lady but if I could help you I will.It is people like all of you that should make your country proud.After reading this blog I really think there is more of you than there is of them but I don’t go to the trash sites.

  27. Malisha says:

    The new “Fogen saved a truck full of people who, just happens, were ready to stand up and take a group feel-good photo right after the accident and it’s all so heart-warming” story made me realize, last night late, that I was even more likely to be right about what Fogen was doing on 2/26/2012. He had set out to do his hero thing and he chose Trayvon. Then he was gonna call him in to NEN, make sure NEN didn’t respond too soon (remember “I was running out of time”) and go after the thug himself, subdue him, get a little hurt and yell “help me help me” so he could use his loaded gun, and prove to the RTL community, and thence to the WORLD, that he should be made into a legitimate community hero to patrol with his gun. It was not so much a concerted efforts to get rid of Blacks in RTL as it was a small orchestrated scenario to get George his ribbons, his medals, his recognition so he could move on to better things.

    I have helped at the scene of a horrible car crash (twice, but once on my own until the firetrucks and ambulances arrived) and nobody even took my name (because I admitted not having SEEN the crash so therefore no witness). The second crash, when I called the hospital the next day to ask if I could find out if I needed to be tested for HIV (because I gave first aid to a guy who was covered in blood) they wouldn’t even speak with me. My name had not been given to anyone, much less the police, much less the ambulance crew. Nobody mentions witnesses although witnesses help out in probably half the car crashes that take place on a daily basis. Nobody takes group photos to show appreciation to witnesses either. Once I sent a check as a gift to people who helped my son after he had a crash; my friend who saved a life at a crash (pneumothorax after a motorcycle accident) couldn’t even get in to visit the patient even though SHE is a physician. The idea of making a news story out of somebody helping at a crash is too silly for me to belief — unless it’s a nine-year-old kid or a ninety-year-old woman or a dog named Lassie.

    Nope, this was the fall back “hero story” they were using because the “bring in your thug” story didn’t work as planned.

    And one more thing: This makes me even more positive that it was Osterman who planned out the Trayvon Martin scene, more than ever. Osterman, ex-sheriff (got fired but still has friends). Osterman, who advised Fogen to get a voice-stress test from Erwin (who conveniently “heard” Tracy Martin deny the scream?); Osterman, who did not come out making public statements until much later, but who appeared THAT NIGHT at the station and THE NEXT DAY at the station and who was, up until the little break-up they had, the “big guy” in the story.

    I bet if you scratch the surface of this little truck-turned-over crash you will find Osterman.

    • Deborah Moore says:

      Good Morning, Malisha
      Good points you’ve made about “witnesses” at an accident. I’ve had that experience too, but only once. Held the woman’s head in my lap while waiting for the ambulance. I was a bit of a nervous wreck by the time I got to work.
      Nice folks help each other. Fogen’s a User.
      Now, I have a question. As I was Late to the detailed following of the case – came here at the beginning of the jury “selection”…you know why I put that word in quotes – so I missed some of the background details.
      Can you tell me what the break up between the Ostermans and the Zimmermans was about? Thank you kindly, in advance.

      • Malisha says:

        No idea. They just seemed like “true blood brothers till the end” up until a certain point and then (well after the time that Fogen and Shellie lived with him and Sondra for 6 weeks) they seemed less “true” and Frank Taaffe appeared more often. I think, also, that Osterman didn’t like the fact that O’Mara said they “disavowed” the book just when he started to get so famous. Who knows, really; they’re such a dysfunctional bunch.

        • Deborah Moore says:

          Thanks. One of the aspects of watching the trial and the aftermath that has been so disturbing to me is seeing just how many dysfunctional folks are out there. “Racist and Proud”? Good Lord. Selected to be on a jury and then not following the instructions. Good Grief. My reaction to the poll that shows the huge difference in AA vs. White agreement or disagreement with the Verdict. Good God, Almighty.
          I can’t find that poll, maybe someone else has it. But, AA 80 something disagreement, White 30 something in disagreement.
          That’s some huge difference.

        • Two sides to a story says:

          Fogen wasn’t able to communicate with friends who ended up on the witness list. The Treestump didn’t like the Osterman book and felt it hurt Fogen.

          • Malisha says:

            If we believe Fogen and his friends obeyed the “sequestration” at any point along the way, then we are judgment-impaired. This guy and his crowd of Fogenite trogs never followed any of the rules either of court-ordered conduct (if it was not monitored in a way they couldn’t cheat) or of normal societal rules of decency. Believe me. Believe ME!

    • Endless Summer says:

      Malisha, I totally agree with everything you’ve said here. I too believe the whole thing was a set up, which is why the prosecution should have charged fogen with aggravated stalking and murder 1. They had all the evidence they needed to prove both of those charges: 1) The NEN call–“Are you following him?” “Yeah.” “S***, he’s running.” 2) Rachel Jeantel’s testimony of Trayvon trying to get away from fogen.

      Listening to the NEN call, fogen sounds like a bad actor. The call starts with a LIE: “there’s been a lot of break-ins in our neighborhood and there’s this real suspicious guy”. Both elements of that sentence were a lie. In the re-enactment the next day fogen sounds like an even worse actor.

      This “fogen to the rescue” story is ridiculous. The O’Mara/NRA PR campaign is still in full force. They are gearing up for the civil suit and the federal charges, if either are allowed to happen. Also notice that this happened less than a mile from RATL, so it sounds like he’s not really in hiding, and he didn’t leave Florida immediately like they said he did.

  28. KateW says:

    You all have thoughtful comments says:
    July 22, 2013 at 7:09 pm

    Thank you for joining the NAACPā€™s national movement seeking justice for Trayvon Martin.

    ā€Øā€ØLate last week, I met with Attorney General Eric Holder to discuss this case. He is committed to a thorough investigation of George Zimmerman. He also asked for patience during the Department of Justice review; this will be a long and arduous process.ā€Øā€Ø

    But patience does not mean inaction, C. And right now, there is something each of us can do.ā€Øā€Ø

    The DOJ has asked for public comment on the George Zimmerman case. Stand tall and let them know you support justice for Trayvon.ā€Øā€Ø

    As the legal process continues, we remain mindful of our responsibility to Trayvon and to all of our children. We know what enabled this tragedy ā€” and we are methodically organizing to make sure it never happens again.ā€Øā€Ø

    Because if George Zimmerman didnā€™t break the law, then the law is broken.ā€Øā€Ø

    We are already working to repeal the legal framework ā€” ā€œstand your groundā€ laws ā€” that made this verdict possible in the year 2013. We are fighting for strong anti-racial profiling laws. And we are demanding commonsense gun control legislation to reduce killings in all our communities.

    ā€Øā€ØWe are not nearing the end of this struggle, but we fight on, and today we can take a concrete step toward this goal.ā€Øā€Ø

    Send your thoughts on the George Zimmerman case to the Department of Justice. Do so today, for all of our children.

    ā€ØMore soon, ā€Øā€ØBenā€Øā€ØBenjamin Todd Jealous
    President and CEOā€Ø
    NAACP

  29. KateW says:

    The human heart, it guides us… – John Guy

    I believe the prosecution wanted to win, but perhaps they thought the jury would see what they saw. Common sense right? However, stealth jurors infiltrated and bullied, pressured or intimidated the others for a guilty vote to vote not guilty.

  30. acemayo says:

    Rhonda Rouer tells police when they parked next to a car with loud music at the Gate Station on Southside Boulevard November 23rd, Michael Dunn said “I hate that thug music” as he had said to her before.

    It seemks the new code for black males is thug
    so if black males is listing to music its thug music
    if you a group of whites boys walking down the street its just a group of boys walking down the street
    if a group of black boys walking down the street it becomes a gang of black boys walking down the
    street.

    Rouer claimed they did not know anyone was hurt and they went back to the hotel to take care of their dog Charlie.

    A dog well being is more important than a black male or males well being
    even when you know your man shot at a group of black males

    The prosecution is going to have to work very hard to make sure that the jury hears the witness take back the stashing comment, since he clarified he saw them stash nothing. The DA has to assume that the jury could be racist enough to latch onto those words, and I have no doubt the defense will try to use that clearly prejudiced (or imaginative) slip-up on the part of the witness.
    The idea that there could have been a weapon is absurd when no weapon was found. Also, Dunn alleges that he saw a shotgun barrel. Shotguns are pretty big and hard to miss or stash in some nook somewhere.

    A black male is reaching for something shoot him
    A black males looks like has a weapom shoot him
    I see a black male he’s tall and mean looking shoot him
    I fear for my life shot the person
    Another black male did wrong what this black male diff shoot him

    Check the percentage of white on white crimes(90%). Black on black crime is 86%. Some crimes not put into the public like other.

    • Girlp says:

      I’m hoping since there are live witness in the car and others outside the car this will help but I’m worried after readiing a few SYG cases….SYG need to be struck down.

  31. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Afterthought on the verdict:

    Serino, Singleton, BLDR accepted the impossible word “Punk”.
    .
    .

    Bleak consideration as the DOJ possibly might bring charges against gz for violating Trayvon’s civil rights:

    *FBI stated they were unable to determine the owner of the cry.

    *FBI concluded after interviewing 30 (?) people that gz was not racist.

    What is in store if the same FBI individuals are called upon again?

  32. crazy1946 says:

    Good morning America! We are one day closer to the possible trial of She-lie and we are also one day closer to the trial of the child murderer Michael Dunn! They are rapidly coming to pass and the questions mount as to how they will be handled! Will She-lie get the honor of actually going to trial for her lies in Judge Lester’s court room? Will Michael Dunn be freed after a SYG hearing, remember he did all the after murder stuff right, he remembered to claim he was fearful for his life, and continued to repeat that statement time after time and so will the fine citizens of Florida and their legal representatives allow yet another murderer to flout the system? Oh, what’s that you say, he did not exceed his bag limit on black children? How many black children are you allowed to bag per season and what are the legal hunting dates in Florida for black children? Florida, home of the free racists and the not so free black people….

  33. Digger says:

    Professor Leatherman, Thank you for this much needed unraveling inside look at this criminal behavior. Excellent post!!

  34. MrSykes says:

    Just curious. Does the DOJ investigation necessarily have to focus on the hate crime angle? Would it be possible for him to be brought up on violations of Trayvon’s right to movement and right to life, independent of race? That might seem like an easier case to make.

    • Malisha says:

      That’s what I’m working on, personally. Trying to draw up a proposal. But not ready to publish anything yet. Investigation of the cover-up, not of the murder.

  35. commenting says:

    People..go to yahoo, there aree 20 thousand comments on the article abot gz helping out in an accident..95% of them are racist ones..racist towards the black race…an4d I know tthese are young people posting these comments……gz had a ver high chance of being found not guilty; just look at the many racst people out there

    • Xena says:

      @commenting. Yahoo is a cesspool for mean-spirited folks. There’s one person who admitted to having 30 accounts. With the thumbs rating, he controls what comments are hidden with massive thumbs down, and which comments cannot be hidden due to massive thumbs up.

      Yahoo allows racial slurs, and personal attacks. Around April of last year, I stopped commenting on Yahoo articles and also printed out the hate-speech and sent it to advertisers on those pages.

      The White Supremacists camp out on any article about GZ and/or race and/or President Obama, spamming the board with hatred. Unless anyone is going to babysit the boards, their comments will be 20 pages down in a matter of an hour.

  36. kenteoth says:

    Remember the comment that the defendant made during the hannity insanity? He said it was “God’s plan” to kill Trayvon? He thinks that his ploy for attention will change things for him….I don’t think so…..Think about what the idiots that built the Titanic said……”Not even God himself cannot sink it”….well you know what happened……loose lips sink ships….the defendant is no exception and GOD is NOT AMUSED….all I am gonna say………

  37. Mary Harvill says:

    Hello Mr. Leatherman,
    Thank you for your keen insight, commentary and opinion throughout the Trayvon Martin case. I hope you will also consider joining the NAACP effort to provide public comment to Attorney General Eric Holder in support of the Justice Department investigation. Though these investigations can be long and tedious, I think it is a worthwhile effort in this situation.

    Thank you also for “calling out” juror B37 for what she is–to which I would add she was intellectually lazy when it came time to truly read and understand the jury instructions.

    I wish your blog had even greater exposure. I feel lucky to be a reader.

    Sincerely,
    Mary from Spokane, WA–a city that had a DOJ investigation and clean-up of its police practices and force after the wrongful death of Otto Zehm, a white, mentally impaired janitor, repleat with a corrupt police investigation.

  38. Last night my boyfriend called me from the kitchen “Hey George Zimmerman came out of hiding and rescued some people from an overturned truck”He stood pointing at his screen and grinning.
    Now I live in Amsterdam in Europe and the article was in dutch!
    Breaking News as if it were the gospel truth.

    Who are these people connected to? It’s just to much to bear, all the trouble they are going to to fuck with perception. What’s next?
    Vote fcking Fogen for President?

    • Malisha says:

      Either he can be attorney general of the US or the chief justice of the US Supreme Court. All we need is for Sondra Osterman to throw another party for him (a law school party this time) and then the wire services will pick it up and he’ll be in! If anybody tries not to vote for him, B-37 will have her husband take care of them.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Oh, Lordy. Fogen for President. Idiocracy.

    • crazy1946 says:

      Perhaps they will change the name of the county from Seminole to Zimmerhole in honor of their hero, the legendary child slayer who allows no black child to go untouched…..

    • Fogen is a liar, a killer, and a thief who profiled an unarmed Black teenager, Trayvon Benjamin Martin. He then surveilled Trayvon from his truck, followed Trayvon on foot, hunted Trayvon down, and shot Trayvon in the heart while Trayvon begged, pleaded, and screamed for Fogen not to kill him. Fogen then lied on Trayvon and stole Trayvon’s screams as his own.

      I would believe nothing that comes from Fogen’s or his protectors’ mouths.

  39. bettykath says:

    I just watched the after verdict press conference. I do not like Angela Corey’s presumptive star approach. I suspect that Mantei is actively looking for work elsewhere. He really doesn’t like what happened.

    • longtimegeek says:

    • Malisha says:

      Yeah. I think, looking at it, that Mantei is the only one who is appropriately upset about what happened. And he probably got duped. As did we. As did we all, pretty much. Atrocious. May those who are now experiencing their duping delight reap the opposite a thousand fold when the eventualities eventuate.

    • KateW says:

      Mantei should have closed.

      • Dave says:

        That was my gut feeling too, but he had more than enough to do as it was. Mantei was the guy who had to do most of the heavy lifting on the case: researching and arguing case law and researching all the technical stuff to question the expert witnesses etc. The man was brilliant but there’s only one of him.

  40. Malisha says:

    Here’s the tweet (I’m so BAD at this!):

    @nyclu: . @TonyaPinkins begins by talking about #Trayvon case: “Until we protect everyone’s life interest, we will not have a democracy.” #StandUp

  41. Malisha says:

    Tonight Broadway Actress/Singer Tonya Pinkins sang at the NYCLU gala, and then she made a brief speech:

    The Constitution guarantees us that we will not be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process. For more than 200 years, there have been litigations over the liberty interests that flow from liberty but do not EQUAL liberty; there have been litigations over the property interests that pertain to but do not equal PROPERTY. But not one case in over 250 years about the interest that flows from life itself. The only way we lose life, it seems, is by being killed. Until we are killed we have no interest in our life — and after we are killed, only our survivors have that.

    So Trayvon Martin, for instance, had no protective constitutional interest before the moment that a hollowpoint bullet ripped into his heart. Under our laws, as they stand now, even caselaw.

    I SAY that he had a life interest in walking home unmolested. I say he had a life interest in not being profiled. I say he had a life interest in the protection of the Sanford Police who should already have warned Zimmerman that he was not allowed to patrol, armed, in a residential community just because he set himself up as a white watchgod.

    And did Trayvon Martin have a life interest in self-defense? Apparently NOT.

    Because the life interest Trayvon Martin had received no protection, he was put into a situation — LEGALLY — where his life could be taken away from him and nobody could be held responsible.

    This is not about standing your ground. The ground on which Trayvon Martin was murdered was not Zimmerman’s ground; the life interest of Trayvon Martin would have dictated that the ground he was killed on was the same ground he had a life interest in STANDING ON.

    Until we protect every child’s life interest in this country, we cannot have democracy.

    And apparently NYCLU has now re-tweeted:

    “Until we protect every child’s life interest in this country, we cannot have democracy.”

  42. Malisha says:

    Oh Hey, I know where the lady with the “Racist and proud of it” sign shops: HERE!

    • Malisha says:

      Oh I saw that ignoramus’s sign (the proud racist) and I cracked up and I still can’t breathe properly. She should be sued for long-distance malicious oxygen deprivation.

      On the bright side, she was able to spell words with more than one syllable! She’s probably a high school teacher in Texas!

      • cielo62 says:

        Malisha~ ‘sigh’ I bet you are right about that! The worst part about these dueling protests was that it was done in River Oaks, a ritzy part of town. They must have imported some of those CACs in the camo to march there. Quarnel X is a stupid rabble rouser and we’re better off without him. The other protests, set up by the NAACP in front of city hall were all peaceful.

        ________________________________

        • fauxmccoy says:

          for the life of me i will never understand what the oft heard phrase ‘if zimmerman is a white hispanic, then obama is a white black’ even MEANS.

          ???????

          • šŸ˜€ Americans really do not understand history or sociology. Hispanic is an ethnicity, not a race. A person can be a black Hispanic or a white Hispanic. But most people we view as Hispanic are mulatto, sambo (an archiaic term), or mestizo. The distinction most telling in the USA, however, is that white Hispanics are not considered as white as non-hispanic whites which are considered separate categories so we know how many REAL whites there are left in the country.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            am an anthropologist by training and education. i get it.

            what puzzles me is what does this phrase even mean to these dopes? it clearly puts their ignorance on full display (much like the ‘get a brain, morans!’ sign did). but what message are they even hoping to convey? i honestly do not get it, but ‘it’ is apparently important to these folks.

          • cielo62 says:

            faux mccoy~he’s trying to imply that white and hispanic don’t go together, like white and black don’t go together. IOWs he’s a total idiot.

            ________________________________

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @cielo — dear god, that is even more vile than anything my imagination could dream up šŸ˜¦

          • racerrodig says:

            Trust me, that guy is nowhere near as smart as an idiot……trust me, and the stupid (insert insult here) with the racist & proud sign..
            …words escape me, but I can hear her on that cell phone “…did ya’ll see me wit my sign……damn glad I did that too, check the mail, maa gun git there yet?”

          • “what puzzles me is what does this phrase even mean to these dopes? it clearly puts their ignorance on full display (much like the ā€˜get a brain, morans!ā€™ sign did). but what message are they even hoping to convey? i honestly do not get it, but ā€˜itā€™ is apparently important to these folks.”

            Well, I’ve heard this protest before. But the meaning they are trying to convey versus what educated people get is different. In this white supremacist society, a person is considered the category that embodies the lowest rank, for lack of a better word, in the socioeconomic hierarchy. This is particularly the case when they find themselves in trouble. So a person who is black and white can only be called black. A person who is non-hispanic white and some other kind of Hispanic, is Hispanic. (Tiger Woods learned this rule the hard way.) This protects the purity and superiority of “whiter” people. By not following this rule, particularly when it’s an issue of racism, exposes the conundrum of white supremacy. White people would rather not be conscious that it exists.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            holy crap — it is even sicker than i could have imagined. i’m sorry you had to explain it. i’m an educated woman, but this shit is foreign to me.

  43. Malisha says:

    THE GARLIC NEWSPAPER, ON-LINE EDITION

    Headline: Developing Story

    Earlier reports of Fogen pulling four uninjured decent Americans out of an overturned truck in a near-fatal injury-free crash on a dangerous intersection has been clarified by a re-enactment and a post-accident cartoon.

    In the videotaped reenactment, all four uninjured accident victims waved their arms and yelled “Crash, crash, crash” while Fogen, dressed in khakis and a clean white golf polo, sank slightly into his flexed knees and described how he extracted each terrified passenger without giving any of them cooties. “It was amazing,” the trembling matron intoned, “He saved us all and he didn’t even FART!” The father of the family added, “We just thank God he went to Kokopelli’s gym! Otherwise we would have been uninjured for a LOT LONGER than we were, lying there in the upside-down schruck.” One of the two children (whose faces are x’s due to a rare congenital disease) claimed that he was crying before being rescued because his daddy couldn’t reach his beer. The unidentified innocent minor child said, “whenever my dad turns the car over we lose half the beer and he tries to comfort us by taking us out for soft-serve ice cream, but THIS TIME we’re gonna donate our ice cream money to Mr. Fogen for saving us!”

    Frank Taaffe could not be reached for comment. Mark Osterman was reportedly at the ATM machine looking for his own beer. Shelli has distributed big knuckle bandaids to all the uninjured parties.

    • KA says:

      OMG…I have tears…LOL

    • racerrodig says:

      You’re killing me. This entire story is shit…..no need for a fart.

      Did he say to the white victims…….”Take a life……save a life…..now we’re even”

    • Deborah Moore says:

      Malisha! You’re making us all cry with laughter.
      Good going, girl.
      (wiping a tear.)
      Thank you.

    • Girlp says:

      ROTFLMAO…

    • LBTG says:

      The thing missing from this story is the accident victims being interviewed by TV organizations. Sanford Police Department Capt. Jim McAuliffe told the news organizations [ABC, Fox, etc] that Zimmerman, 29, was identified by a crash victim as the man who pulled him from the mangled vehicle.

      http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/22/george-zimmerman-rescued-man-from-truck-crash-last-week-police-say/#ixzz2ZpjIN1Qh

    • longtimegeek says:

      Since my sense of humor seems to have returned fully, I just searched for satires. Here’s another one. It’s a week old.

      • jodiwankanobi says:

        oh God that was good….i love it. I respond well to sarcasm and usually rely on it when i’m trying to express my distaste for something so this is right up my alley. and he makes sense too!!!!!! thanks for posting

    • longtimegeek says:

      Here’s another satire. It is two-and-a-half weeks old!

      • longtimegeek says:

        Oops. Sorry! I didn’t cut-and-paste properly. Here’s the other video, and it’s description:

        Published on Jul 4, 2013

        This video is satirical because we don’t feel it’s being handled properly. From the very beginning, starting with the Sanford police, America has shown itself to be very typical in it’s treatment towards minorities. Blacks have been treated unfairly for centuries and this case shows that the mindset of white America is still in tact. Denial and hypocrisy are at the forefront of our existence as a nation.

    • aussie says:

      In breaking news, eye-witness John Bad said the truck had skidded on the concrete and rolled over. Sideways. Maybe horizontally. Sort of on top of the grass but on the concrete and spun sideways. No not really a spin more like a roll. He yelled out don’t worry I am calling 911 but the truck kept sliding. When he looked up again from his phone the passengers were standing outside the vehicle; he stated he did not see them being rescued but he knows they were otherwise they would still be inside.

  44. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Thank you for joining the NAACP’s national movement seeking justice for Trayvon Martin.

    ā€Øā€ØLate last week, I met with Attorney General Eric Holder to discuss this case. He is committed to a thorough investigation of George Zimmerman. He also asked for patience during the Department of Justice review; this will be a long and arduous process.ā€Øā€Ø

    But patience does not mean inaction, C. And right now, there is something each of us can do.ā€Øā€Ø

    The DOJ has asked for public comment on the George Zimmerman case. Stand tall and let them know you support justice for Trayvon.ā€Øā€Ø

    As the legal process continues, we remain mindful of our responsibility to Trayvon and to all of our children. We know what enabled this tragedy ā€” and we are methodically organizing to make sure it never happens again.ā€Øā€Ø

    Because if George Zimmerman didn’t break the law, then the law is broken.ā€Øā€Ø

    We are already working to repeal the legal framework ā€” “stand your ground” laws ā€” that made this verdict possible in the year 2013. We are fighting for strong anti-racial profiling laws. And we are demanding commonsense gun control legislation to reduce killings in all our communities.

    ā€Øā€ØWe are not nearing the end of this struggle, but we fight on, and today we can take a concrete step toward this goal.ā€Øā€Ø

    Send your thoughts on the George Zimmerman case to the Department of Justice. Do so today, for all of our children.

    ā€ØMore soon, ā€Øā€ØBenā€Øā€ØBenjamin Todd Jealous
    President and CEOā€Ø
    NAACP

  45. smokeegyrl says:

    I know y’all heard that Fogen became superman and saved the day and pulled a unconscious man out of his vehicle from a overturned vehicle… but they have no record of the accident. This is on Sheriffs account to the Sanford PD.

    http://www.awesomelyluvvie.com/2013/07/george-zimmerman-lying.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Luvvie+%28Awesomely+Luvvie%29&utm_content=FaceBook

    • roderick2012 says:

      I guess George is going on ride-alongs with Florida Highway Patrol now.

      *sigh*

    • Malisha says:

      No record of the accident and here’s another interesting thing: NO INJURIES??

      If “NO INJURIES” how the Hell come they couldn’t get out by their damnselves? How come you have to pull uninjured people out of a schruck that isn’t even burning? Huh?

      • KA says:

        Actually, you are not suppose to. He would have learned that…the fact the police are praising him for that is stupid. It would be against his training.

        Secondly, it seems it life needs to parallel Trayvon’s….Trayvon saved his dad from a fire….not GZ saves from a overturned car?

        Hmmm…that is a little convenient.

    • KA says:

      Yeah, a man rated a 0.5 out of 10 on the “strength” ability by his trainer when he was 100 lbs lighter is now puling grown adults out of an overturned car?

      Yeah, I am not buying it either. BTW….until first certified people get there, if there is no fire or smoking seen from the car or it is submerged in water, you are not suppose to MOVE PEOPLE from an accident. Many additional injuries can result. The police are PRAISING him for it? Was there a fire? I read there was not, so actually, he did not do what is correct in the situation.

      Outside of that, I am just not buying it. I think it is a PR stunt for the police and the defense.

      • racerrodig says:

        The story is Buuuuuuullllllllllllsssshhhiiiiiiiiitttttttt.

        Up until today everything about FogenPhoole says he’s in hiding and hasn’t left the house. Okay I buy that.

        Now he saved accident victims last Wednesday……Nooooo.

        If he did we’d have heard about last fucking Wednesday.

        Gee. The FBI and DOJ just went to Sanford today and grabbed the evidence.

        Do I look like I was born yesterday ??????

        Typical Zidiot Behavior.

    • Jasmine says:

      Ooo Ooo question wouldn’t the accident ‘victims’ need that police report in order to do an insurance claim? And who turned their vehicle right-side up? Yeah (sarcastic smirk on my face) I need more information.
      See these ‘journalist’ aren’t journalist at all. They hear something and just repeat it. They don’t even investigate to make sure that their information is correct. Journalism is dead.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Good!

    • bettykath says:

      excerpt:
      “As I noted in a POLITICO story Sunday, the statement last week from ACLU Executive Director Anthony Romero spoke of the “imperative” to carry out a federal civil rights and hate crimes investigation. However, ACLU policy opposes federal retrials in cases already tried in state courts.

      “That policy, rejecting such successive trials as a violation of the Constitution’s double jeopardy clause, was settled on following a fractious debate in the early 1990s over the Rodney King case.”

      This means that last week’s memo urging the DoJ to NOT prosecute fogen stands. An earlier memo urging an investigation is the one that was pulled.

    • racerrodig says:

      I’m not surprised considering the e-mails a few of us sent them.

  46. abbyj1 says:

    This article just showed up that confirms the sheriff’s office allowed unsupervised visits between jurors and outsiders, therefore jury tampering. Talk about a fix.

    http://newsone.com/2638174/zimmerman-jurors-jury-tampering/

    • roderick2012 says:

      @ abbyj1,

      It also shows what a lying b!tch Judge Nelson is.

      Remember she said she wanted to hurry the trial along because she didn’t want the jurors to be away from their families.

      F-n bullcrap!!

    • bettykath says:

      don’t have the reference but iirc, family visits to a sequestered jury requires an agreement with the defendant with both sets of attorneys present. I don’t remember that happening. Or maybe it was done in private.

    • cielo62 says:

      Endless~ YES!! I hope more will join them!

      ________________________________

    • ladystclaire says:

      @Endless Summer and everyone here, we can take part in this boycott of Florida also. if there are any HSN shoppers on this blog site, DO NOT ORDER ANYTHING FROM HSN. I myself will not be placing anymore orders with them. as a matter of fact, I have canceled my auto ship order with them because, I will not spend one red penny in that racist of states.

      There is NO good reason as to why this POS murdered a child and got away with it. I am not going to send my comments about this case to Eric Holder. BTW, if you must shop online, try QVC, ShopNBC.com, Overstock.com or any other shop online site. but, please refrain from shopping with HSN as it is based in Florida.

  47. Malisha says:

    THE GARLIC NEWSPAPER

    Headline: Fogen saves family from utter destruction

    Earlier today a schruck turned over and four decent Americans were pinned inside. None of them could reach his or her side-arm to shoot his or her way out. Screams of “Help we’ve fallen down and we can’t reach our guns” reverberated from the vehicle and spread out across the neighborhood as bystanders and thugs alike stood still, refusing to render assistance because their hearts were not in the right place. Hidden within sound-reach but out of sight, Fogen stood quivering with indecision: should he risk his life and approach the upturned schruck and save the Americans or should he think only of his own life and stay put, refusing to render aid? “Help me Help me Help me” he heard. It tore at his heartstrings. Tear, tear, tear. “What’s that damned racket?” demanded Shellie from the rear of the secret annex where they crouched in terror.

    “Someone NEEDS ME!” whispered Fogen. šŸ˜Æ

    “WHY?” his nurse/wife asked in a breathless tone. ā“

    “Because they’re pinned helpless and defenseless under a BLACK SCHRUCK!” he exclaimed, rising and squaring his shoulders, “And I am going to save them even though I risk my life to do so … Donnelly would have it no other way!” ā—

    Shellie remained frozen in terror, hoping that her husband would return from yet another dangerous adventure out in that terrible world, exposing himself to all manner of depredations just to save his unworthy neighbors — ah, poor Fogen, please Lord protect his sissy ass and bring him back to me in one piece without another broken nose and bonkered noggin — šŸ˜„

    Far off, Jeralyn sat trembling in her modernistic office, surrounded by books of the law and tubes and jars of jellies and creams — she, too, was frightened for Fogen’s safety, poor heroic soul — ah, ahhh, ahhhh ahhhhhhh ahhhhhhhhhh ooops! šŸ˜³

    Fogen bursts forth from his hiding places.

    Formaldehyding places he bursts forth —
    bursting forth, at the same time, from his seams —
    seems —

    YES! He saves them! (No injuries. Oh maybe a little capillary-type laceration … ) THE GREAT WHITE HOPE!

    By-line: The ghost of Thomas Dixon.

    • cielo62 says:

      Malisha~ You wield a deadly pen!

      ________________________________

      • Malisha says:

        Cielo, ephcharisto. And I did learn the necessary Greek (when working in a diner on the highway back in the 60s):

        To Fogen: (from Homer, of course):

        Agamisu, Malagia, Fogen kai Fogenites.
        (I have to transliterate because I don’t know how to do the Greek letters on this keyboard.)

    • dianetrotter says:

      You are insane Malisha!

      • Malisha says:

        thanks baby! šŸ˜ˆ

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Is it me? Or does anyone else get the feeling that gz is moving his plot lines along just a little too fast? That family he “rescued” had better be a part of his loyal entourage, or they just might develop some medical problems and sue him. George would certainly settle rather than be revealed as a fraud.

          Let’s see what his next project gets him. I’m pretty sure that by the end of the summer, at the outside, he’ll be embroiled in some kind of conflagration. Probably with people on his own side.

          • cielo62 says:

            Lonnie~ That would be prime time material. Zimiots at each other’s throats… and wallets!

            ________________________________

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Since gz doesn’t pay and I’m sure these people expect compensation for their efforts, it needs to be explained far and wide, that gz’s fund raising effort have been raised immeasurably by these efforts. My guess is he could have taken in another 100k or more because of what these “rescued” people did for him. Surely they should feel entitled to a few thousands of dollars share of the reward.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      šŸ˜€

    • Girlp says:

      ROTFLMAO

  48. So Fogen allegedly rescued a family a mile away from where he murdered Trayvon, mere days after his acquittal? And this is according to the SPD, who were the main ones accused of a cover up? Anybody else calling BS?

    1. Fogen begged the judge to allow him to leave Seminole county because he feared for his life. Yet, he stays there even after his acquittal where the threat against his life is greater than ever, why?

    Maybe this is my bias speaking but I find it very strange how perfectly timed this is. If Fogen did actually do this, however, and I highly doubt that he did, then good for him. I wish he did the same for Trayvon and offered him a ride rather than profile him as a criminal, hunt him down and murder him.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-emerged-hiding-rescue-family-trapped-suv/story?id=19735432

  49. Shari says:

    Twitter is reporting on the car crash. So far no mention of Fogen in the initial 911 reports. Could it be true? Anything is possible but so far no evidence he saved anyone.

    • crazy1946 says:

      Shari, Now think for just a moment if the Fogdoit was the one that reported the accident, he would have had to call the NEN instead of 911, how do you think he could call 911 he looked at his phone and could not figure out how to dial the eleven part…..

    • KateW says:

      Probably a farce and now they are trying to place him at the scene of every good Samaritan incident. His attorney has even said this killer made no mention of it to him. The guy is a coward in fear for his life so all of a sudden he stops on a busy street or highway where he can be spotted and “killed”. I really doubt it.

    • Malisha says:

      He doesn’t need evidence.
      He makes it up and Erwin comes in and gives him a voice stress test and then it’s Holy Scripture and God’s Plan. And Hannity features him (that will be next, watch!) talking about it and looking all “modest” about his heroism.

      I swear somebody needs to …

  50. KateW says:

    Dr. Cornell West reaction to Obama speech.
    Excellent interview.

    http://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/22/cornel_west_obamas_response_to_trayvon

    • Woow! says:

      Cornell West do not like POTUS and he bashes him every chance he gets. West and Tavis Smiley are a disgrace.

      • KateW says:

        Well he makes some valid points but I have to admit Obama has done very little for the African American community. As far as this case, I am very skeptical that he will do anything or have anything done about this injustice because of the statement he made about basically rolling over and accepting the verdict that the jury spoke. Just as West said I hope they aren’t placating to the people just to shut them up and then sweep this under the rug.

        I am no so in love with Obama that I can’t be critical of some of the things he’s done. As this guy said…it was a beautiful speak but will it lead to action and that is the real question.

        • Woow! says:

          Obama has played it safe his entire presidency and he runs away from issues involving race. Why? The right has no problem calling him name or a racist.

          He has not used his platform to help anyone.

          I get so tired of him caving in to everything. He needs to get some backbone and tell the good ole boys club where to go. I know that compromises has to be made but damn, he give in on everything.

          • KateW says:

            I agree Woow. He is the President! They can call him what they will but you know what, at the end of the day he is in that chair, not them. Other Presidents had no problem doing what they wanted to do. I still believe Bush and Cheney should be in prison but that is my take on it. He has this platform and he should use it to illicit change and not just praying and hoping things will change for the African American community.

          • cielo62 says:

            Woow!~ He did NOT give in on healthcare for all. He did NOT give in on killing Bin Laden. I would have preferred to have voted for Hillary back then, but Obama is what we had, and I went with him. He’s done as well as anybody COULD given how fucked up Bush left this country after 8 years of marauding and looting by his party’s buddies.

            ________________________________

        • KateW says:

          speech not speak

        • crazy1946 says:

          Let’s talk politics for a moment (darn I hate to do that!). We are rapidly coming up on the mid term elections, and the opposition party would be quick to use any statement the POTUS uses against his supporters and their candidates. We have a government that the founding fathers separated into three separate by equal parts. If the POTUS demanded that the Judicial branch force what we consider justice upon the Fogdoit, the opposition would be up in arms and it could possibly do much damage to the stability of our nation. If you were in his position would you run head long into a fight you would probably lose or would you try to do an end run to try to solve the problem?

      • Deborah Moore says:

        Disgrace? You call West and Smiley a disgrace?
        Humph.
        I don’t.
        I disagree with you.

        • Woow! says:

          You are entitled to your opinion and I stand by mine:)
          Cornell and West are equal opertunity idiots. Once those two started their rants criticizing POTUS it opened the door and created the current climate for white pseudo journalists to attack the POTUS. It all began with those two.

          Cornell was all for POTUS than all of a sudden the bashing. Why? because he felt snubbed for an invite? The same for Smiley. If they had legitimate reasons no one would think twice but they are both like whinny women who could not have their way.

          • Deborah Moore says:

            Thanks for allowing me my opinion.
            You think They opened the door for criticism? Pish. I say. That’s just silly talk to me.
            Stand by your computer and your opinion. You definitely keep the comments coming here, and I happen to be fond of Fred and Rachel and their efforts here.
            I just happen to disagree with you.

          • KateW says:

            Ok now calling them idiots is going a bit too far. These two men have a great deal of experience and they are familiar with what they are talking about. They should be able to critic the President and offer their perspective as well.

          • Woow! says:

            @Deborah Moore isn’t it nice when grown folks can debate express views ….. love this site.

        • Malisha says:

          I have nothing negative to say about either of them.

    • Nef05 says:

      I’m a fan of Dr. West and I agree he has/had valid points. However, his incessant bashing of Pres. Obama tends to take some of the focus away from some of the very good points he makes. This is coming from someone who buys a ticket to see him speak when ever he comes to town, receives feeds from his FB page and tries to stay informed on his media interviews/articles.

      I do wish he and Tavis Smiley would be a bit more selective in their criticism. I do not believe the President is perfect. I disagree with some (more than a little, less than a LOT) of what he’s done. But, Dr. West’s (and Smiley’s) constant criticisms of EVERY little thing he does/doesn’t do, are a bit much to take. Holding a president accountable is one thing. What they do goes beyond that. (JMO).

      • Malisha says:

        I’ll never forget Wanda Sykes roasting Obama and she said something like, “All of you are acting so glad he’s been elected, you all came down to congratulate him, you’re dancing in the streets. Just wait til he makes his first mistake. You’ll be saying, ‘Did YOU vote for the Mulatto’?” And he and the Mrs. both cracked up.

    • Nef05 says:

      Most of the time Scarborough makes me want to tell him to STFU and stop interrupting everyone who disagrees with him, in order to deflect to something irrelevant to the topic (GOP SOP). But, I will admit, he does sometimes get it right (as in this instance and also gun control- imo).

  51. acemayo says:

    Zimmerman’s parents, meanwhile, have told ABC News that they have received death threats and have been unable to return to their home following the verdict

    “We have had an enormous amount of death threats,ā€ Robert Zimmerman said. ā€œGeorge’s legal counsel has had death threats, the police chief of Sanford, many people have had death threats ā€¦ ā€˜Everyone with Georgie’s DNA should be killed’ — just every kind of horrible thing you can imagine.”

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/22/george-zimmerman-rescued-man-from-truck-crash-last-week-police-say/#ixzz2ZoD1VK5y

    Call the police get them arrested
    What the FBI can’t trace the callers
    If the FBI can’t do get the CIA
    Call HomeLand Secuity

    • sparger says:

      If their dumb kid has been arrested that night. They wouldn’t have this problem. George has always been a problem for them. Once the honeymoon phase is over they will go back to ignoring George like the rest of the world.

    • Woow! says:

      I don’t believe they are receiving death threats. I think their claim is a charade to get money. If they were receiving death threat you can bet they would have reported it to LE

      • pat deadder says:

        I don’t understand how are they receiving death threats if they are in hiding.My god who are these people. Please don’t tell me they are a normal family.

    • KateW says:

      I am not buying it!! Their son is a liar and they are liars. Produce this evidence these crazy people being threatened. I am sure they have a recorder somewhere.

      I suppose they are feeling left out of this high profile status and they want a security detail as well paid for by the government. I have heard people on the blog call people POS. Well this whole family are POS and I don’t feel sorry for them. Their son killed an innocent kid and to add insult to injury they ran his name through the mud. They said Martin was the real racist, they blamed the victim for the tragedy instead of where it should have squarely been placed, they degraded the family of this slain teen, and it was everyone elses fault but their son.

      No I don’t feel sorry for them. At all.

    • cielo62 says:

      acemayo~ LOL! Imagine the death threats they don’t even KNOW about! I wish them all some terrible terrible painful karma but that won’t get me arrested. If those “threats” are real, by all means, track them down…

      ________________________________

      • acemayo says:

        Remember after so many hours after he shot TM he went into
        hiding because of death threats you forget he was getting
        evited from his home for not paying his rent if you look at it in another way GZ was trespasses he had not right to be there
        How can you get death threats if no matter know what you did.

  52. Malisha says:

    Just think. If they had locked up poor Fogen for just killing one thuggy pBa-lack kid, that family would still be there under their truck, with nobody to help! Kinda reminds you of Sherman Ware with nobody to help (remember the NAACP was too busy?) and the poor kids who needed mentoring but if Fogen wouldn’t go to the bad part of town to mentor them, nobody woulda helped.

    Fogen is our great white hope! He’s the only one who helps! That’s why “nobody helped” when he cried out “help me help me help me” when somebody LIGHTER THAN A TRUCK was on top of poo widdow him!

    • crazy1946 says:

      Malisha, we’ve heard that BS story about mentoring two black children so many times that I have started to wonder if anyone has checked to see if there are two black children missing in unsolved cases in the Seminole County Florida area? Something just does not seem right about that claim, if he had done mentoring, then his attorney would have produced the children as proof of his good character, however is the children were missing and not to be found then they can not produce them…. Maybe some one needs to check for missing children over the last five years in the area……

  53. Stormwatch says:

    Amen Professor.. and thank you.
    I will take it a step farther. I am of the opinion that the defendant may have committed first degree murder. I think he intended to shoot TM that night and was going to use his NEN call as the backdrop. He had his canvas, then he tried to paint the picture that would justify him shooting the kid. All the “he looks like he’s on drugs” and “he’s up to no good”.. he was just laying the foundation for the murder he was about to commit.

    • Nef05 says:

      I tend to agree, based on the TWO flashlight thing. John Guy emphasized that in his opening, but no one ever made it an issue. At some point fogen made a CONSCIOUS decision to pick up a second flashlight. I suspect it was before he left the house. But, even if it was simply from the glovebox, it’s an indication he knew he was going hunting. You don’t need a flashlight to go find a street sign. You don’t need a flashlight to get and address. And even if you did, you don’t need TWO.

      AND – since he had these flashlights, why didn’t he use them to get this address that he allegedly couldn’t see, but which was illuminated by the porchlight over his right shoulder?

      He went hunting. You know it. I know it. The prosecution knew it. The defense knew it. The jury knew it. Even the racists knew it. Anything else is simply ridiculous.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Of course we all know it. How many people go shopping for lunch fixings at Target packing a cocked gun and two flashlights? Absurd.

        • crazy1946 says:

          Trained Observer, you fail to mention no money and no credit cards! Hmmm, hard choice he had to make, rob a Target Store or murder a black child. I guess he made the choice that was best for him, had he robbed the store he would have gone to jail…. But murder a child he becomes a racist folk hero…. too fat to fly, but fit enough to be able to leap over small piles of dog crap!! What a hero……

        • Woow! says:

          With $2 in our pocket and no credit whay was he purchasing to eat.

    • Woow! says:

      I don’t think he thought that far ahead or was smart enough to think of a plan.

      He went out looking for a black man and found TM, his gun was already drawn, TM tried to get away or may have fought back, he killed the kid and the neighbors that witnessed the incident and the police covered up what he did. JN prohibited any mention or race and the higher up tried to steer clear of race for unknown reasons instead of calling it like it was.

      MOM took advantage of the fact prosecution came out the door and said race did not play a part and ran with the scary big black thug and took race to a whole different level.

      This case was f/up from the beginning with police investigation to the judge not issuing a gag order to the prosecution no following through on cross examination.

    • type1juve says:

      I don’t care what he did or does in the future. That does not negate the fact that he murdered a teenager in cold blood and got away with it.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      It occurs to me that he would have entered the corridor only seconds behind Trayvon. A quick look would be all it takes to know that Trayvon could not have covered all that distance, and therefore must be in hiding.

      He then goes over to Jon Manalo’s where he helps apply the blood and scratches, then he’s back out on the hunt. Someone pulled strings to handcuff the prosecution, probably at the governors level. He appointed loyal followers to get the job undone. There are probably big rewards in store for the prosecutors, should the governor win reelection.

  54. Nef05 says:

    OT: HRH Prince William and HRH Princess William are the proud parents of a baby boy. HRH “Baby Boy” Windsor is 3rd in line to the throne, after his grandfather Prince Charles and his father. Congratulations to the happy couple.

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/22/world/europe/uk-royal-baby/

    Colin, if you’re around – drink a health to the new baby for me. It’s good to celebrate the positive things happening in our world, even as we contemplate and plan what needs to be done to change the negative things in our world. šŸ™‚

    • Some choice comments:

      Unbelievable ā€¢ 20 minutes ago āˆ’
      Yeah right! This MURDERER has been in hiding since the verdict. He just happened to come out of hiding and pop up at an accident scene and save a family!!! lol Who is he, Superman? Give me a f—ing break!!!!!

      jollyf ā€¢ an hour ago āˆ’
      Yeah, no injuries, I bet. Well Zimmerman, you finally came outside to rescue someone; how long did it take you to get to the staged scene? how many of them were your friends helping you look like a person helping society?

      Crawl back into your hole; the one thing I have learned in my 50 years hear on earth is that the media does all it can to sway the minds of the masses; it is not working for me.

      Simply amazing, the same way you happened to be out on that rainy February night by chance, right? Wrong.

      TVP ā€¢ an hour ago āˆ’
      So let me make sure I understand this correctly… he’s got enough strength to help rescue a family from an overturned vehicle, but not enough energy to get a 154 lb. teenager off him without shooting him in the heart at point blank range with a hollow point bullet??

      Oh. Ok.

    • I believe nothing that comes from Fogen’s mouth. More than not, this is the likely scenario:

      While blasting his favorite band’s song, “You’re Gonna Die Tonight,” Fogen sped up to and tailgated a truck that was going in the same direction as his Honda Ridgeline along a Florida highway. He mumbled something like,”Those Chevys, they always get away!” He then flicked his wrist and sharply veered into the family’s truck, causing it to fishtail, hit a concrete barricade, and flip over. As police arrived, Fogen told them that he was simply yelling for someone to detain ..er… help the family out of their overturned vehicle. And of course, Fogen
      was struck by a piece of the concrete barricade.

      šŸ™„

    • type1juve says:

      I don’t care what he did or does in the future. That does not negate the fact that he murdered a teenager in cold blood and got away with it.

      • I cannot forget the words it was “God’s plan” for him to shoot and kill Trayvon…..yes he assisted someone in their time of need and he stayed to talk to the police so he could get recognition……I heard an accident happen near my house and went to assist the people involved…brought them bottled water because it was 113 that day and I drove one of the victims home because his car was totaled and no one was available to give him a ride……I never gave the police my name and only gave the person I drove home my first name and left it at that…..the defendant is only trying to make himself look good to cover the horrible act he did to Trayvon……the DOJ is investigating and even if they fail to do anything one thing is for certain….people who mock GOD often do not fare very well after that……the defendant is no exception……he better get it together and take responsibility for his choices because GOD IS NOT AMUSED…….

        • Trained Observer says:

          Fogen is a sicko … he’ll be popping into save and rescue all around to a point where he becomes Letterman material for his do-gooder antics. That won’t change the fact that he murdered Trayvon Martin after racially profiling and stalking him.

  55. ay2z says:

    Amidst the problems that we discuss and read, some of which are very difficult to grasp, to even read, there’s a birth of international importance– Princess Diana of Wales, postumously, will become a grandmother today.

    Here’s a Canadian live link. Diana changed the humanity, humanism, of the British royaal family.

    Reporters are doing dry camera audio tests– looks like a hot evening in London!

    Looks like a black repporter, voices in the background are in various languages, accents, even sounded like Piers M at one point.

    Something is beginning to ramp up.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/07/22/royal-baby-born.html

  56. Malisha says:

    I was thinking about anonymous jurors again.

    Anonymous jurors have no stake in honest deliberations. If judges are not anonymous, neither should jurors be so. If the police cannot protect jurors (and they HAVE, even in Mafia trials!) they cannot pretend to be enforcing ANY law and we should all just go NRA on everyone and shoot whomever we want.

    • pat deadder says:

      Are the jurors names supposed to come out after 6 months bet they won’t.

      • cielo62 says:

        Pat- they requested permanent anonymity right after the verdict was read.

        FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

        • pat deadder says:

          cielo62 They requested permanent anonymity.OMG you’ve got to be kidding.Well has that ever been allowed before.This is outrageous.fogen and them belong together frigging cowards.I hope the press fights this..If JN is the decision maker they will get their way.I think JN must have been at the bottom of her class.There were common words she could not pronounce.And she was rude to Rachael.Any ruling she made without taking home she screwed up.

  57. Malisha says:

    Witness tampering in a murder case is a felony punishable by up to life in prison.

    This may sound perverse, but I would actually LOVE it if Serino and Tim Smith had to do hard time for witness tampering after Fogen got off for murder. Jane S actually would be a good witness against Serino and the young boy walking his dog as well. But we cannot count on the State of Florida doing anything right in this case or any other case where a white guy has killed Blacks HE decided were killable. Perhaps the feds will indict Serino, Smith and a few others. Possibly even B-37 who’s been stupid enough to brag about her conduct.

  58. Jasmine says:

    I have a question and hopefully you all and professor can clear this up for me. So the verdict was given based on the exact moment of the shot right? So that anything that happen before or after had nothing to do with the verdict.? Am I right?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      The verdict means Fogen is not guilty of the crime of M2 or manslaughter because the prosecution did not prove their case and the jury found reasonable doubt. However, this does not mean that he is innocent.

    • Thrace says:

      Basically. The key was the jury instructions. GZ could use deadly force if he felt in fear of life or great bodily injury. The judge ruled against the “intial aggressor” language being included in the instructions (GZ following TM & intial confrontation) which could have changed the outcome. So in a nutshell it all evolved around what was happening at the time of the shot and the jury believed George’s fable.

      • Jasmine says:

        Thank you Thrace that is what I was asking. So the fact that he followed in his car and then on foot wasn’t involved in other words it was irrelevant. Sigh that makes no sense. That would mean that someone can kidnap a person, torture them, and if they happen to get free and try to harm their attacker, that attacker could then claim self defense since at that point they were indeed in danger. Makes no sense right?

        • Thrace says:

          Not if they were commiting a crime, that was in the instructions too. The real problem (if you believe the jury wasn’t bias) was the judge agreeing with the defense and leaving out the initial aggressor language. If that had been in, the jury could have taken in account George’s actions leading up to the shooting and deemed him the aggressor & Trayvon was standing his ground in the fight.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @jasmine

          yup — as far as i can tell. at some point after the verdict, my husband discussed a similar scenario. a woman on the verge of being raped manages to do enough damage to escape her attacker, attacker runs after her, kills her and claims self defense. according to this law and case ruling, he gets off (no pun intended) yet no one ever wonders what the hell this guy’s doing chasing a crying, naked woman down a dark alley.

          pretty sick.

          • Jasmine says:

            That is some Bull…..a bunch of stuff

          • fauxmccoy says:

            as long as there was no evidence that such rape had yet occurred, but was only in process and the victim is dead with no witnesses … well, i guess we can see the outcome, huh?

          • Malisha says:

            They would have a bunch of people say the crying came from the guy, not the naked woman running away down an alley.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            malisha says

            They would have a bunch of people say the crying came from the guy, not the naked woman running away down an alley.

            no doubt … because grown men in fear of their lives can scream like little girls, so says mystery medic from viet nam, voice expert.

  59. Yorazigo says:

    GZ now a hero!

    http://bit.ly/161crNd

    • Malisha says:

      But really, to his crowd (including such as Dershowitz, Turley and Merritt) he always WAS a hero for killing a thug who attacked him on “his” ground. He was a hero to old veteran Donnelly who cried about his hero’s terrified shrieks when being beaten by a pBa-lack kid (and of course, he never heard shrieks from 17-year-old pBa-lack kids in Vietnam, right?) and he was a hero to Osterblenderman who got fired from the Sheriff’s office for bodyguarding a fake hero; and he was a hero to Pulling-his-own-Taffeyman for saving his house from an invasion when he only left his doors and windows open; and he was a hero to Kokopuff-the-swelly-bellyman whose gym taught him how to lie flat underneath a murderous thug for a full minute before using his weeny-beanie-gun; and he was a hero to Bertalan-waggle-tush who needed him to protect her after the police had already arrested the guy who burglarized her house; and he was a hero to Shellie-noTelly-nobaby-indeebelly when she told him “cute button-nose, we’ll have a great life soon as this little murder thing blows over.”

      Gutman. No-guts-man. His limpdick hero sure got himself up to speed as soon as the thug-beating was over, huh?

      Anybody know whether it was perchance Timmy Smith who witnessed this great act of heroism?

      • Boyd says:

        kids who see themselves get shot unable to stop it never utter terrified shrieks. He was calm afterwards without a hoarse voice.

      • Yorazigo says:

        Smith was SPD (Sanford). Seminole County Sheriff is separate department.

        • Malisha says:

          County sheriff’s dept. is even more corrupt; they did the jury tampering. They’re still really behind Osterman’s illegal manipulations and so forth.

          • concernedczen says:

            Definitely wonder who was behind the order in which jurors were called in for initial questioning.

            All they needed to do was stack the GZ supporters and white jurors toward the front of the line since the people in the back had no chance of getting on the jury.

          • Boyd says:

            yes, they stocked the potential Jurors with many NRA,CCW holders. data mining

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I wouldn’t be surprised if it was Tim Smith or one of Fogen’s other enablers. Otherwise the incident probably wouldn’t have been released to the media.

    • sparger says:

      Sounds like the plot of Crash. When Matt Damon assauts Thandie Newton then saves her life in the end. Someone is trying to rehab their image. I am going to need to hear from the alledged victims. I am willing to wager George was in the area when a crash occured and really didn’t do much of anything.

      • Malisha says:

        Maybe he was on a “ride-along.” I think his initial “ride-alongs” were unauthorized. He was going along to try to find some situation in which he could get citizen’s commendations and the friendly cops were trying to help him do that. Now that they have to be circumspect because of the calls for DOJ investigation, the sheriff’s folk are trying to get him his hero tights and cape. Too bad there aren’t too many phone booths big enough for him to change clothes in any more …

        • crazy1946 says:

          Malisha, For sale, one pound of Kryptonite guaranteed to cause fat and lazy wanta be super slobs to crash and burn! Make offer only used one time…

      • Thrace says:

        “Someone is trying to rehab their image.”

        Exactly. What’s the odd that the “little hero complex” kook comes to the rescue so quickly after his trial. He just can’t lay low. It happened sooner than I thought, and I imagine this isn’t the last we’ve heard of him. Wait till he gets his mitts on a gun and something goes sideways in his head again.

        • pat deadder says:

          Thrace What makes you think fogen doesn’t already have a gun.Does he still have his conceal carry permit.What a bullshit story fogen rescues people.He’s a effen coward.I’m willing to bet he isn’t even in Florida.Next they’ll be saying the occupants were AA.

      • groans says:

        My guess is CAC was following the vehicle in hot pursuit, while on the phone with a police dispatcher (as police reports prove he was prone to do), and he made the driver so nervous that the driver lost control of the vehicle.

    • Girlp says:

      Not really, I really don’t believe it.

    • crazy1946 says:

      The article didn’t mention it, but you can rest assured that the occupants of car were not black! If the truth were known, the Fogdoit probably ran the car off the road….

  60. silk says:

    dont be surprise that shellie might skate also . look who is her judge.

    • Rachael says:

      Even if she had a different judge, at this point I would say she would skate anyway.

    • Malisha says:

      They will probably drop the charges so the people can begin to “heal.” I’m just betting the statement about it will talk about prayer and healing and getting on with the important business of law and order and self-defense and America and all.

  61. Boyd says:

    Serino ,Singleton, Dorival, should be fired.

    Did anyone notice in the re-enactment video the yellow crime scene tape was missing and where were the Residents who complained about this guy.

  62. Olivia says:

    Viewing Wendy Dorival’s testimony again, I feel irritated every time Dorival talks about the reporting of “suspicious” activity.

    WTH is the definition of SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY?

    Is a person walking in the rain engaged in a suspicious activity?

    Is a person walking in the rain and looking around engaged in a suspicious activity?

    Did Sanford Police Department/Wendy Dorival give neighborhood watch participants a handout that described suspicious activity?

    Did she tell them that a person walking in the rain and looking around was engaged in a suspicious activity?

    NO?

    So, it was Zimmerman who decided walking in the rain and looking around was suspicious activity?

    Those “report suspicious activity” signs should read WALKING IN THE RAIN AND LOOKING AROUND IS NOT SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      @olivia

      i have come to realize that people who depend on their vehicles for making even the shortest of trips make bizarre assumptions of pedestrians. i found myself walking to the store in a rather redneck portion of the bay area where my bro lived and a number of times was passed by local yokels in jacked up pickups who threw bottles and cans at me, yelled ‘hippie’ and even swerved toward me on a road which had no sidewalk and a steep canyon as an ‘escape route’. it made no sense whatsoever. i was doing nothing illegal, getting some exercise and just enjoying a nice day.

      small minds think in small minded ways.

      • Boyd says:

        “redneck portion of the bay area” where is that?

        • fauxmccoy says:

          the east bay — meth capitol of the bay area — martinez, antioch et al. my bro lives there, on shell road, right by noxious emitting refineries. it’s the arm pit of the bay area, i assure you.

        • cielo62 says:

          Boyd~ Galveston??

          ________________________________

      • Olivia says:

        @fauxmccoy,

        They viewed you as easy prey. Criminals prey on the weak, and you, walking, were outnumbered and therefore seen as vulnerable.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          yes. i was a woman, walking alone in broad daylight. the first time it happened, i considered it a fluke. after 3 such incidents i realized i did not want to be in that town for any reason. to call it ‘uncomfortable’ would be an understatement.

          • Olivia says:

            @fauxmccoy

            OMG – 3 times; sounds like misogyny may be the norm there.

            Glad you got out.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @olvia — yes, i think you put your finger on it. i was only staying with my bro for a few months and delighted to get back to my beloved san francisco. frankly, other than the (relatively) cheap real estate prices in the area, i kind of have to wonder how my bro fits into that environment. :/

    • Olivia says:

      In Los Angeles, “Joggers who stand and stretch for an inordinate amount of time” and “Individuals who carry on long conversations on pay or cellular telephones” should be reported to the Los Angeles Police Department.

      In Kentucky, “people avoiding eye contact”, “people in places they don’t belong” and people who are “over dressed for the weather” are engaged in unusual activity. Report them to the Kentucky Office of Homeland Security.

      http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/are-we-safer/suspicious-activity/

      • abbyj says:

        Olivia, I would like to see Homeland Security issue an entire list of what they deem “suspicious behavior,” just so everyone knows exactly what to look for before shooting someone. If it’s true that “black male skin has become the costume of criminality,” then it really doesn’t matter WHAT activity or behavior is exhibited. Just being and breathing is enough to get someone killed.

        Every black or dark-skinned male has a story of being targeted for “being in the wrong place,” and therefore being suspicious. One of my friends who is dark–Native American–is repeatedly stopped when he jogs in his sister’s neighborhood when visiting her from out of town. It’s always the same: he’ll jog for less than 10 minutes, and sure enough, a squad car shows up. It’s always an interesting confrontation because he happens to BE a police officer himself. He shows them his badge, the officers look a little confused and embarrassed, and off they go. But it never stops.

        So, what I want to see is a comprehensive list of WHAT constitutes “suspicious behavior.” I want racists to OWN what they refuse to acknowledge: that it’s not looking in windows, not trying to pry open front doors or enter through garages, not loitering, not wearing a hoodie. I want them to state unequivocally that it’s BLACK SKIN in their white neighborhoods, in their stores, in their places of business. That it’s the judgment against BLACK SKIN that is “suspicious,” in and of itself. Time to call them on their lies and rationalizations.

      • Malisha says:

        Ibrahim Rashada, a Black homeowner in RTL, told the press in 2012 that he was afraid to jog in his neighborhood because Fogen was handing out leaflets saying to watch out for young Black males, and Rashada “did not want to be chased.” He would drive DOWNTOWN to stretch his legs, afraid to do so in RTL!

      • cielo62 says:

        Olivia~ I live that one about being “overdressed for the weather.” I have coworkers who are cold sensitive. They wear sweaters inside the building even in the summer. I find that bizarre, BUT I’m just the opposite. I wont’ wear a sweater unless it’s under 40 degrees.

        ________________________________

    • MDH says:

      Most 17 year olds that do not have mommy and daddy paying their way through life do not have a car. So how, pray tell GZ, do they go to the store to buy snacks?

      Sometime I think there is a bit of the “overprotected by their parents” aspect to some of GZ enablers.

      When I was 17, I walked or took the bus everywhere in all kinds of weather. Because I was poor, I could not afford gear and just had to get wet. And there are millions of males in the USA in the same boat.

    • Girlp says:

      Trayvon standing at the mail boxes to get out of the rain, he left his shelter because Zimmerman was staring him down and it frightened him. Funny George left that out.

  63. mimi712 says:

    Did you see this article that just emerged on twitter? Now Zimmerman is a good samitarian …in the making, by the media:

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-emerged-hiding-truck-crash-rescue/story?id=19735432

    • Woow! says:

      They can report how much of a good guy he is people still are not going to like him. I think this is a fabricated ploy to shed good light on him.

      We have all said karma is a MF and reporting stuff like this is going to make that idiot think he is the neighborhood savior again and it won’t be long before he is back to old ways. I give him a year to be back in the new in a negative way.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Woow!, you are too generous. I’d venture less than six months.

        • mimi712 says:

          Sanford police delivered GeorgeZimmerman evidence to FBI’s Orlando office for civil rights investigation within the last hour. What a nice coincidence! Since the SPD has actually nothing to do with the highway patrol, how come that SPD forwarded this
          ” hero news” now to ABC news? No, not a real question.

      • cielo62 says:

        Woow!~ Living on food stamps in a refurbished FEMA trailer.

        ________________________________

    • Trained Observer says:

      Disgusting. I can’t imagine that murdering tub of lard could be anything other than a nuisance and liability in a rescue situation.

      It doesn’t look like the Sanford PD has learned anything either.

      Frankly, I’m surprised any of the Zimmerman are still lurking within the state. … Then again, what other state would want them?

      • Xena says:

        @Trained Observer. HA! So the cops gave the intersection so everyone in Florida can be on the lookout for tubbythug.

        • cielo62 says:

          Xena~ RIGHT! Because following someone is NOT illegal…. I can see him having panic attacks in the street.

          ________________________________

          • Xena says:

            @cielo62

            Xena~ RIGHT! Because following someone is NOT illegalā€¦. I can see him having panic attacks in the street.

            LMAO!

            I wonder if he called 911 to report an accident and for an ambulance, or NEN to report a suspicious vehicle?

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @xena

            “um, hi. this is george. i’d like to report a suspicious vehicle. it’s upside down. and the tires? they’re black.”

          • racerrodig says:

            So FogenPhoole’s new catch phrase is what….

            Take a life…….save a life

            I just watched The Moron Man tell us about his clients heroics. You could smell the shit 1200 miles away !! The shocked look on his face !!

            Lets face facts here, they’ve been saying Fogen has not left the house for (insert # of days here) and all of the sudden he was rescuing people on Wed ???????

            AND Robbie the Racist didn’t alert us ???? !!!! ???? Bullllllshit.

            Robbie had to throw a racial dig however in his phone interview.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            yup, something is rotten in denmark, indeed!

      • abbyj says:

        T.O., I’ve still got my fingers crossed that he and his wretched family move to Peru. There, he and Joran Van der Sloot can hang out and talk about their favorite murder techniques. And GZ’s mom can pour tea and laugh along with them.

      • cielo62 says:

        Trained Observer! alas, Texas would welcome them with open arms. Armed arms.

        ________________________________

    • Boyd says:

      No way he was Johnny on the spot. It’s an NRA conspiracy, like Invasion of the body snatchers.

      Boycott Florida!

    • THE Shadow says:

      “less than a mile” from the scene of the murder. Well there is that old saying – “they always return to the scene of the crime”.
      Likely hoping to score some Brownie points. Won’t help him though, not where he’s going.

    • Malisha says:

      Do not trust this article. Fogen’s friends at ABC news were the ones who published the “exonerating” picture of the back of his head before the police claimed to have had it. Mat Gutman? Remember, McAuliffe was the information officer when the misinformation was given to the Miami Herald saying that there had been high crime in RTL including “one other shooting” in the year before Trayvon Martin was murdered — and that was done on March 15, 2012. And besides, do you believe that weak little soft-ass no-muscle-mass wus pussy Fogen was able to suddenly grow muscles and strength and fearlessness and so he was able to pull an injured party out from under a truck? REALLY? When he couldn’t push a 17-year-old’s skinny hands off his nose and mouth?

      What they are doing is polishing Fogen’s image now so that all of us can become subject to his dominance, not just pBa-lacks in “his turf.” They are making Fogen the hero he wanted to be when he went out punk-coon-chasing on behalf of his fraidy-cat neighbors (who have now had to shell out over a million dollars for him to have exercised that little privilege).

      I do not believe this bullshit. The ABC press has to rehabilitate their little coon-killer before his own reputation overtakes him. Just as he was a “mentor” now he is a “savior.” I’m not buying it. And from McAuliffe? Not buying it. MMM-mmm, no, not at all.

      • Boyd says:

        Good point Malisha, From Pillsbury dough boy to “the man of steel” in 1 week

      • mimi712 says:

        This is the Seminole So’s statement I just found: “On Wednesday, July 17 at approximately 5:45 p.m., the Seminole County Sheriffā€™s Office (SCSO) responded to a single car accident in the area of 1-4 and SR 46 in Sanford, Fla. A blue Ford Explorer SUV had travelled off the road and rolled over. There were four occupants inside ā€“ two parents and two children. SCSOā€™s responding deputy reported that when he arrived, two men – one of whom was George Zimmerman – had already helped assist the family by getting them out of the overturned vehicle. Zimmerman was not a witness to the crash and left after making contact with the deputy. There were no report of injuries to the vehicle occupants”

        I absolutely believe that it’s to polish the image! Especially when they just had to turn over the evidence material. It’s all very convenient…and it shows on the other hand that he actually had the physical strength to “defend” himself, doesn’t it?

        • concernedczen says:

          I agree. This is a made up story. All parties were probably Zimmerman’s buddies including the family in the supposed overturned car.

        • mimi712 says:

          Thinking about it once again, I also believe it’s made up story…it’s a gut feeling!

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @Mimi,

          Vehicles that roll often simply leave their occupants hanging
          upside-down by their seatbelts/shoulder harnesses. An SUV is more prone to this because of its higher profile.

          About ten years ago I helped an older woman out of her vehicle from the same kind of event. A little tricky unlatching her but other than that she was just scared and feeling a little foolish for skidding out on sand that had washed onto the pavement.

          The SUV in the “Zimmerman incident” is sturdy and protective. Nowhere do you read that Zimmerman helped right the vehicle. He and another bystander just helped the folks get out of the car.

          And made a point that the cops got his name, for the attaboys.

          No more, no less than that. And not heroic. Anybody could do this. Smashing a window would be the most “hazardous” part of it.

          On the other hand, maybe Zimmerman could get one of those Sanford PD “combat ribbons,” like Singleton wears.

          And a party to celebrate?

          Just don’t try hiring servers …

        • Boyd says:

          5:45 PM that’s work hour traffic. There would be a lot of cars around. making contact with the deputy. “I’m one of you”

          • aussiekay says:

            Who the hell rolls a vehicle in peak hour traffic? too early to be drunk and speeding with the family on board. I don’t believe a word of it. Opening the doors to let the people get out is not a “rescue”.

            PICTURES OR IT DIDN’T HAPPEN

      • J4TMinATL says:

        Matt Gutman was also the person who apparently had RJ’s original telephone interview tape.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      If he does about a million more good things and never picks up a gun again, then I’ll be impressed.

    • cielo62 says:

      mimi~ and I don’t believe one single word of it. TOTALLY manufactured, just like ALL the lies they’ve told…

      ________________________________

  64. KateW says:

    THis is what this case has done!!! They now think it’s ok to shoot Black people like animals in the streets!!! These racist bigots are going to end up starting some kind of reaction that is not going to be good for anyone. This case has set a dangerous precedent and gave every gun toting racist a*hole the perceived right to shoot people of color in the streets. I hate to say this but perhaps Tavis Smiley was right, maybe Black people need to start arming themselves. They cannot be out in the streets allowing themselves to be slaughtered. This was just…I have no words.

    This guy shoots a man in the face and says I only shot a n*gger!! I am absolutely livid!!

    Florida man shoots neighbor in the face and tells police 'I only shot a ni**er'

    • fauxmccoy says:

      @kateW — that event occurred not long after trayvon was killed. it is vile and beyond ugly, but we cannot blame it on the trial that just occurred. we can blame it on florida legislation and hate however.

    • Malisha says:

      “They now think itā€™s ok to shoot Black people like animals in the streets!!!”

      No, because if you shoot an animal in the street you will be arrested.

    • LBTG says:

      Hannity crowd thinks this man is the dumbist racist ever. This man won’t have a chance in court – he has no law to base his defence on like SYG.

  65. ladystclaire says:

    Are we to assume that Fogen, ShelLie, Robbie the Racist and, the sister who along with her spouse, participated in MONEY LAUNDERING and, hiding a valid passport will they also get away with that? there are records which prove this took place and, they shouldn’t be allowed to get away with that but, more than likely they will.

    You know, some of the talking heads are saying that, it would be hard for the DOJ to prove that Fogen committed a hate crime. but when he is on the NEN call, he says these two words, “fucking Coons” and, I don’t care what the FBI or anyone else says, he did “NOT” say fucking punks and, when I send my email to Eric Holder, I’m going to make sure that he knows this.

    BTW, I cancelled my auto ship order with HSN because, I’m not going to give that state not one dime of my money.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      i am resigned to the fact that shellie may be the only conviction whatsoever. they have her cornered with her own taped words and bank records. i do not expect much in the way of punishment however, but am willing to be surprised.

      • Trained Observer says:

        I’ve written to Angela Corey’s office urging that (assuming she still has juristiction) she not back off on Mrs. Fogen’s perjury charge and that she consider charges on jury violations. Have written to both the White House and and the DOJ’s Eric Holder urging federal prosecution of Fogen … also have signed all the petitions, etc.

        Now we must wait and hope.

        It would be ironic if SheLie becomes a convicted felon not allowed to own a gun, while Fogen roams free to buy another.

      • cielo62 says:

        faux mccoy~ probation, probably. And even WHEN she breaks her probation rules, she’ll get nothing. I have lost ALL faith.

        ________________________________

  66. concernedczen says:

    Does anyone recall reading information about GZ going to a BBQ at Wendy Dorival’s house ?

    • fauxmccoy says:

      i seem to recall something about a party at singleton’s house … hmmmmmm.

      • Boyd says:

        don’t tell me this. this nugget never came up during the trial.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          boyd — if my memory is not failing me (it does, sometimes) this was a video taped discussion between gz and singleton when they were awaiting the voice stress test. since none of the voice stress test stuff was entered (for obvious reasons) it would not have made it into evidence. i would have to go back and review those tapes to be absolutely certain of which pre-interview conversation this was and i just don’t have the heart to do that now.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            Send this info to DOJ pronto!

          • pat deadder says:

            fauxmcoy Conversation between Singleton and fogen. I think.they were talking about her working overtime doing a house party either fogen was there or also working as a bouncer or whatever he did being the whimp he is.He asked if the police chief told her about the glowing report he sent about her to him..I think she said no.It was hard to hear.Gag me with a spoon as the kids used to say.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @pat

            yup — that pretty much fits my recollection, gags, spoons and all!

  67. chi1224 says:

    Hi everyone. Great article professor. I am still so sick over the verdict. I have a question- does anyone here think the federal government will file charges?

    • KateW says:

      Who knows. They opened up a tip line for anyone with information to come forward. We have to keep the pressure on them. Not saying I would want them to bring a hap hazard case like this debacle, but I think they should do as much research and digging as they can to make sure a grand jury would indict. Did I say that right?
      The ACLU and NAACP are involved and I am sure they will stay on top of it as well. How often do we have a President that can relate to what is going on. THis is Obama’s moment to help make a change for the African American communities and for victims of crimes that have been dealt a terrible blow by our justice system.

      • ay2z says:

        haphazard debackle, and all too common?

      • bettykath says:

        the ACLU is claiming that a federal charge would be double jeopardy.

        • Girlp says:

          I’m wondering how they came to the conculsion that charging George with violating Trayvon Martin’s civil rights is double jeopardy it’s been done before and Florida did not charge this as a hate crime.

        • abbyj says:

          Are you sure, bettykath? Criminal and civil charges are quite different, as I understand them. Would like to hear more about this. No way GZ should get immunity from civil charges.

        • Two sides to a story says:

          Not necessarily. He probably wouldn’t face M2 charges again – he’d face federal violations for committing a hate crime. I think ACLU is going off prematurely.

  68. silk says:

    prosecutor F#@k this case up . it was definitely fix . not mention judge nelson bullshit with the defense was was sign that tray wasnt going to get no justice . then the audio was banned . then she had the nerve to insult our intelligance by allowing some stupid ass cartoon program in . the defense never presented any case law just bitching and moaning. then the fake pictures, omg!! i thought i was going to die looking at those phony ass pitcher !!!! then obama and charles is saying the shit as robert zimmerman !!! WTF is going on. who in the fuck the is black would by this shit!!!!!

    • KateW says:

      Yeah Charles Barkley *sigh* I had to shake my head at that one. He says after looking at all the evidence Zimmerman was in the right. So basically he is in the same boat as these jurors that looked at the evidence they wanted to look at instead of the whole picture. Then he says he lives in a neighborhood where he is the only Black man. So I can deduce that he didn’t want to piss his White counterparts off. I agreed with him on some things but I dont understand how anyone can say this is a just verdict when this killer, the aggressor, is the one who initiated the whole thing. I just don’t understand how people, well ok so I do understand, and that is how they can start from a point where they want to demonize and blame the victim and that is to say everything starts when they meet. Everything doesn’t start when they meet. Everything starts from the time he targeted, stalked and then ultimately confronted and murdered this child doing nothing more than walking home from the store. It’s like reverse racism where privileged Black men/women feel little to no connection to Black America. They are often chastising, belittling and turning their backs to the problems Blacks in America face. When Obama said we should just accept this verdict because the courts had spoken I was up in arms upset! Lauryn Hill got more time for tax evasion than this cretin got for murdering an innocent child on his way home. This is an atrocity and no one should let this go.

  69. KateW says:

    Ugh!! The atrocities! The violation of civil and human rights! This sounds like the procedure that killer practiced in profiling and looking at a person of color as “suspicious”. This makes me soooo angry!!!

    http://www.upworthy.com/meet-the-17-year-old-who-blew-the-lid-off-racial-profiling-with-his-ipod

    • crazy1946 says:

      This video should be played over and over to anyone who thinks racism is not alive and well in this nation! Thank you for posting it!!

    • Girlp says:

      Now this video should be on CBS, NBC, CNN, ABC, why not. How can an unconstitutional practice be allowed by a Government, whether it’s Federal, State or local. They actually tried to bate this child into a fight by calling him a racial slur…SICK!

  70. Woow! says:

    If people did not know the SPD was racist they know now. Let us hope that the next time a black person file a complaint or request an investigation their request is taken seriously.

    SPD is under a microscope. Will that stop them from their racist ways. No… these people have been emboldened. As long people (DOJ) remain quiet and let them get away we are going to continue to have the same problem

    No one wants to discuss the problem ‘racism’. It is not going to go away and it needed to get addressed once an for all.

    Corey and BDLR stayed away from racing knowing CAC actions were racially motivated. JN perpuated this more by not allowing BDLR to introduce it as a reason for CAC behavior at the trial.

    Look at Taffee on TV spewing his vile hatred for the world to see.
    What about daddy Zimmerman and that book and even before that trying to call the POTUS racist.
    We have FOX network spewing hatred every single day and lying. What ever happened to integrity in journalism.
    POTUS staying away from race. Why, he has been under racial attack from the first day of his campaign.

    We have senators like Michelle Bachman running round with her craziness.
    John McCain during the campaign referring to the POUTS as that guy.
    The supreme court turning back the clock on hard fought rights….

    Race needs to get addressed let people know that we are not going to tolerate it anymore. If we keep sweeping it under the rug, it will continue to rear its ugly head and bit us in the fanny.

    These people need to get called out on their BS,

  71. Good morning. My Senator Barbara Boxer sent a letter to AG Holder asking the DOJ to investigate. You know why I think this story is not over. Not Karma, but ratings. This is box office gold and can you imagine the ad dollars if a Fed trial was televised? Im a proud cynical capitolist. My questions then is can a Fed trial be televised? In the Corp my DI used to say “nothing’s ever over”.

    Have a great week and again thank you for all.

    • cielo62 says:

      Elijah~ LOL! Yes, the drama that never ends because the emotions are so raw! Sure, let’s milk this for another year through the DoJ. Send gz to prison, then ask a bazillion loaded questions about race, SYG, and other cases happening. A veritable goldmine of self-written crap with many “idiot on the street” commentary. A cross between reality TV and Case Files. Oh your thoughts are so cynically in tune with mine…

      ________________________________

  72. crazy1946 says:

    Mz. Shel-lie Fogdoit will possibly go on trial in about thirty days or so. There has been talk on most of the Fogdoit support programming that there will be no trial for her and the charges will simply be allowed to go away. Will this happen? If it does will that be another stake in the heart of “justice” in Florida?

    In about sixty days or so Michael Dunn is scheduled to go on trial for the killing of Jordan Davis, there are rumors about a change in the prosecution of this case. I see a problem with the conviction of this man, who willingly murdered a child and attempted to murder three others. Because Dunn during his initial interview and continuing up to the present, stated he feared for his life and “thought” he saw a weapon (yet none was found), if the jury is given similar instructions as to those that were given to the jury in the Trayvon Martin case by Judge Nelson, it is possible that regardless to any other evidence shown, he will be acquitted! Have we all been following these cases that are quickly coming to trial?

    • dianetrotter says:

      Crazy, I am concerned also. Isn’t John Guy the prosecutr?

      • crazy1946 says:

        I have been hearing rumors that AC is taking over and going to prosecute the case her self (for political reasons?)!

        • ladystclaire says:

          I have read that both she and John Guy along with another Attorney whose name is Erin, whose last name I don’t recall will be prosecuting this one. I don’t really seeing the same thing happening in this case, as did in Trayvon’s case.

          IMO the prosecution went into that trial, with the intention of Fogen not being convicted and, that was “VERY DIRTY” for them to do that. my first inclination of them not really being serious about this case was when, they did not seat not one African American on that jury. WHY WAS THAT DONE? it’s a shame that we have a dead seventeen year old who was murdered at the hands of a serial criminal, who is now walking free among us.

          Someone asked why the subject of racism is not being talked about, it’s because “they do not want the rest of the world, to see the real UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND HOW THEY TREAT CERTAIN CITIZENS EVEN THOUGH THEY TRY TO TELL THOSE IN OTHER COUNTRIES, HOW THEY SHOULD TREAT THEIR OWN CITIZENS. they don’t want them to see the hypocrisy that is this country.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @ladystclaire

            the prosecution did excuse one black male juror — a very conservative, fox watching, retired marine, with heavy LE connections and a CCW permit. i believe that was a good call.

            other than that one AA, how do you propose they could have seated more, considering the jury order which cannot be changed?

          • crazy1946 says:

            ladystclaire, If Dunn is convicted, it will not be because of who the prosecutor is. I have a different view on what happened in the Fogdoit trial than most other here have professed. In the period leading up to the trial BDLR and crew did all the right things, at the start of the trial they did good, however as it became to appear that they might just win the case, suddenly there was a change in demeanor in BDLR and he seemed to act like a man whose legs had been shot out from under him! To find out the truth about why the “state” lost the trial you would need to follow a political trail up to the top! I don’t think the loss was dictated by Scott, but instead it came from much higher in the political process. We need to look and determine who stood to lose the most had a conviction occurred… Will a case be pursued by the justice dept? Will charges be filed against the Fogdoit? Unlike many others here, I think they will, only because the Fogdoit and his case are no longer able to be protected by the people that covered his behind in the state courts…. Time will tell which one of us is right…. Regardless, there will still be no true justice for the death of Trayvon Martin! Justice provided now will always be tainted by the events that happened during and after the trial….

    • KateW says:

      Isn’t it amazing that people always begin this altercation with what Trayvon Martin did, but never start at the crux of this matter and that was that this kid was targeted as “suspicious” simply for walking home, in the rain. This kid was targeted, stalked and pursued. That is where it should start as his killer being the aggressor. But when his supporters are called out on it, then they stammer and stutter and back pedal. They don’t want to admit and are selective in their acknowledgement of culpability for this heinous miscarriage of justice, and that is this killer began the confrontation the minute he targeted this child. The professor has also stressed this point. What happened in the middle doesn’t really matter because only 2 people know what really happened and one made sure the other would not be able to tell his story. If we cannot ascertain who did what at the moment they met, the jury should have looked at who began this chain of events and there is no dispute the killer’s actions caused this.

      I am seeing this consistently on the blogs and websites where people automatically leave out how they got to that point. They don’t want to admit it and they always come back to blaming the victim. This clip is an example of that.

      • MDH says:

        They ignore the 100% incontrovertible evidence and accept the story of a proven liar because he is able to tap into a racist fear in their minds.

        The incontrovertible facts are:

        A had a gun

        A called B a “suspect”, “asshole” and “F’in coon or punk”

        A got out of the car after saying in an anxious voice “he’s getting away”

        A shot B dead.

        And they have the temerity to say that the proposed actions of Trayvon based on a story told by A have merit.

        Cornell should not have even given any plausibility to the idea that Trayvon was fighting back. The evidence does not prove that. If anything, the evidence points away from it in that there is no damage to Trayvon’s hands or blood on Trayvon proving he was on top beating GZ.

        All the evidence shows, including testimony, is that there was some sort of struggle that we don’t know who made the first physical move in; and that the damage could have been due to a blow or contact with objects in the area where the struggle took place.

        Claiming that the shot angle proves Trayvon was on top is pure stupidity. There was no witness to the shot. In forensics, the first assumption for a level shot straight to the heart is that the shooter and victim were standing face to face.

        An objective person would fall back on what is 100% incontrovertible. What I stated above. And that proves GZ guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

        • Girlp says:

          IMO in the end it doesn’t matter if Trayvon was on top, he was trying to get away and apparently was about to get away which George did not want…..at the point Trayvon was seen on top even George’s friend W6 did not say he saw punches being thrown even he said the person on top may have been holding the person on the bottom at bay which say’s to me Travyon was doing no more than trying to get away from someone. I believe George tried to detain Trayvon…Serino approached him with that idea for a reason…I believe there are others who know more than they are saying and more who were never asked to testify….Also, someone saw something that they did not relate to anyone because they had no intentions of getting involved.

          • MDH says:

            I agree that Trayvon being on top for a moment was part of the struggle and might have been flailing with his arms to break a grip that GZ probably had on his hoodie. The idea that he was beating up GZ is preposterous to any person who has been in or seen a fight.

            I go by my gut instincts and life experience.

            For example, a gay friend of mine got bashed by three guys. Because he is very strong, he was able to take the beating, fend it, and live

            When I first saw him at the gym the night after it happened, My first remark was “you were in a fight and someone tried to kill you”.

            My reasons:

            A clear linear mark to the temple from a kick

            Blood still weeping from the nares

            Multiple contusions on the face and head that had not gone down and were starting to purple up

            A bruise shaped like a boot print on his chest – he said of them jumped on his chest.

            At least 15 wounds on his hands and forearms from fending blows.

            My first reaction to the GZ bloody photo

            Liar

            Reasons

            A minor mark on the nose that caused no bleeding to the nares

            A scratch on the tip of his nose

            Two scratches on the back of his head.

            That does not match 20 to 30 strikes to the face and head along with multiple slams of the back of his head to concrete.

            If I was a juror holding out for a conviction, the above is how I would state my reasons for conviction.

            I would push a yellow legal pad over to B37 state I am willing to stay here till hell freezes over.

            IMO, my reasons to convict are far stronger than what she has said or these two clowns in the video above.

            Thank our lucky stars that Maher has some stones to see what should be self-evident to all.

        • Girlp says:

          I’m happy to see Maher is still standing up for Trayvon as well…There is no way George was beaten, he got a little whipping but Trayvon had the right to fight back against someone attempting to retain him…why wasn’t George charged with attempted kidnapping, Rachel indicated that George was on Trayvon she heard Trayvon say “Get Off!”. I’m glad your friend was able to fend off these people and hope he is ok.

        • degraveegmailcom says:

          THANK YOU!
          And everyone that heard this when it hit the news knew it.
          !00%.

  73. Tee says:

    Good morning, I had a conversation with my daughter & husband yesterday about all those defense witnesses whom claimed that it was GZ voice yelling for help. Here is just a snippet of what I told them, my husband has been to upset to even talk about it. I told him to trust that GZ won’t escape justice from God. That he and everyone on his side that sat in that courtroom and lied about those screams will hear them for a very long time. GZ wanted the screams to be his I bet God is going to give him and all of those whom vouched for him, that child screams everytime he closes his eyes to sleep he will hear them. They all will hear that boy scream, there will be no more peace when he or they sleep. GZ wanted the world to aattribute those screams of death approaching to him and God will surely grant him his wish. They are yours now, hear them loud and clear isn’t that what you and all of your friends and family wanted.

  74. Judy75201 says:

    This is a great segment with Melissa Harris Perry. I don’t watch TV, so I’ve never actually seen her before. I’ve been missing out!

    Take heart.

    (If someone wants to imbed this for me, that would be great.)

    • Judy75201 says:

      Oh, it embedded itself! Ha.

    • Girlp says:

      Love her, watch her all the time, I like it because she is able to state what is without taking away hope she is a very positive person. It is going to take time, if we give up now nothing is done, this is as much for our kids and great grand kids as it is for today.

      • Judy75201 says:

        Absolutely, Girlp. She made me realize that we ARE making a difference! We ARE a part of the puzzle that will eventually be perfected.

  75. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Article: ā€œTrayvon Martin and Making Whiteness Visibleā€

    Trayvon Martin and Making Whiteness Visible

    If there is one hopeful note amid all the anguish and recrimination from the acquittal of George Zimmerman, itā€™s that growing numbers of white people have come to appreciate whiteness for what it is: an unearned set of privileges. And as a result of that dawning awareness, itā€™s become possible to imagine a day when that structure of privilege is dismantled ā€” by white people.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      • And speaking of white supremacy PR…

        “Here’s how great it is to be white. I could get in a time machine and go to any time and it’ll be f@cking awesome when I get there.”

        Not even remotely true. Europeans have been in control of the planet for less than 300 years. All ancient civilizations were either non-white or heavily mixed societies with cultural roots in the non-white people. White people are essentially an A.D. people who became dominant with the fall of the Ottoman Empire.

        • cielo62 says:

          already been~ plus the rise of the British Empire. I believe many American christians would be shocked to know how dark the REAL Jesus was…

          ________________________________

      • cielo62 says:

        YAHTC~ Let me throw my 2 cents in, from experience. I KNOW I have white privilge. I knew it before I even knew it had a name. With my Hispanic student’s parents, there are SO many differences that trying to be their equal feels impossible. I’m white, rich (compared to them), and highly educated. I’m also a Teacher, which is still respected in Hispanic culture. I actually HEAR the capital letter when they say Maestra. If they won’t accept equality, what’s left? Noblese Oblige, and it sucks. But it’s all I have to offer to people who haven’t grown in self confidence enough to know that they ARE my human equals.

        ________________________________

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

  76. crazy1946 says:

    Stand Your Ground! Over and over and over again, I have heard that this law is the problem and it is the cause of the death of innocent individuals! Well, is it really? I submit that no, it is not the true cause of the problem, the problem is much deeper than that, nor is it caused by the CCW laws, they like the SYG laws are just the tip of the iceberg! The real problem is not even guns or gun ownership! Is the second amendment the problem? No, that is not even the problem when considered as it was written. The problem is that we as a society have progressed to the point that we can no longer settle problems with our fellow mankind without violence. Too many individuals, who lack any degree of conscience in dealing with others are in possession of the ultimate social equalizer! We can change the SYG laws, we can eliminate the CCW laws, and we can force the SCOTUS to actually read the 2nd amendment in the way that it was intended, but will that resolve the problem? Until we can re-engineer the human brain and some how remove the portion that causes hate to over ride the ability to reason, the problem will not be solved…. The ability of one individual to serve as judge and jury and to render punishment instantly by the use of a weapon, such as a gun, is like a boil on the skin of this nation, as it festers and spreads it affects more and more people until it ultimately kills the host.. This nation is infected with hate and unless that is eliminated, it will continue on its course of decline and eventually (too soon sadly) death by its own hand…. Feel free to read this either as the NRA would like you to, or perhaps you might read it as a call for unity and concern for all people who desire peace and harmony in life?

    • Malisha says:

      Even if we do not (since we cannot) reengineer the human brain, we SURE can make it scary to a person like Fogen to go off and kill a person like Trayvon Martin. If he had known that night that he COULD NOT get away with it, he would not have done it. The problem was that he knew he COULD get away with it so he did it.

      Remember one of the cops said to the other, upon hearing that FDLE had brought charges against Fogen, “We got fucked up the ass.” Now WHY would cops feel personally betrayed and inured because a suspect was charged with a crime? Is there any logical way to dissect this statement and understand it?

      UNLESS he didn’t mean that they were “FUTA” because they were cops whose work was disrespected, but he felt they were protectors (of Fogen) whose barrier was broken by someone who didn’t care about their personal stake in the safety and security of ONE OF THEM. And who was “one of them” — another cop? NO! Another racist bigot. Another white supremacist.

      • crazy1946 says:

        Malisha, Are you totally sure that the human brain is unable to be reengineered? I might suggest that it can be, think about advertising and television programing as an example of that…. We could farther expand that to religion if you think about it for just a moment! How many Fogdoits do we have out there now that have been programed by the actions of not only their parents but the community as well? We hear from a very early age how guns are the solution to many of life’s problems, and the person with the gun is the hero because he saved the poor damsel in distress! I suggest that not only can the human brain be reengineered (programed) it has been and will continue to be until we take a stand and demand it cease…. The real problem is that we as a society are unable/unwilling to make the commitment to tackle this problem. Is it because it would first require we give up some of our own sacred cows? It would appear that in our society we are all willing to make change/changes in others that we are unwilling to make in our own lives…. Too bad…..

        • Malisha says:

          I’m not saying the brain can’t be reengineered; that’s not my field. I agree with everythng you have written there about how our brains HAVE been reengineered. I wrote hastily. WHat I should have said was that we have no time, between now and the time that our society becomes so utterly unredeemable that it should just be annihilated, to reverse the bad reengineering that has brought us to this point, to the point where we are blessing the murder of innocent children by self-important, lying, slanderous, evil, cheating, thieving violent marauding criminals in our streets and where we are also blaming and heaping abuse upon those among us who want to reverse this crucifying trend. We are becoming a criminal society as evil and wrong-headed (but far more powerful) than we were in the slavery days when we at least ADMITTED that our purpose was to utterly exploit, criminally use and legally murder people.

          Could we all have reengineered brains? Sure. Over a few generations. But during those few generations we would have to have:

          1. Maternal care for our babies, ALL OUR BABIES; and not just “daycare” and institutionalized pump-feeding stations;

          2. True education acknowledging the life interest of each child;

          3. Respect;

          4. Total reform of our courts so that we SHOW our citizens what we really need to do to coexist and grow;

          5. Real freedom not based on financial bullying;

          6. Actual equality in basics such as medical care, housing and nutrition; and, most important

          7. TRUTH in media.

          So although I do not think it IMPOSSIBLE that our brains become reengineered, as a practical matter do I think it possible?

          The short answer is NO.
          The longer answer is HELL NO, SORRY.

          • “So although I do not think it IMPOSSIBLE that our brains become reengineered, as a practical matter do I think it possible?

            The short answer is NO.”

            …as you write to innumerable people on the internet.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            The true nature of the human mind is compassion and wisdom. The obscurations can be cleared away from any mind to reach the true nature, but it takes a hella lotta work to do so. Many people are stuck in their obscurations and false beliefs (those assholes, they always get away) and are not willing or able to do this work. Thus we have an endless supply of suffering in the world.

        • “The real problem is that we as a society are unable/unwilling to make the commitment to tackle this problem. Is it because it would first require we give up some of our own sacred cows?”

          White supremacy is a sacred cow. So is the projection of white guilt. It took a lot of PR to create the myth of white supremacy. Hollywood, Christianity and the Catholic Church, College and Universities and the myth of Western Civilization. Only a very sophisticated person can translate these cues and even then they need a motivation to do so.

    • Malisha says:

      SYG.

      The problem is in the words “your ground.”

      A guy like Fogen, a gal like B-37, really have soaked up enough white privilege to BELIEVE that the “ground” outside anywhere they happen to be is THEIR GROUND.

      They feel like they have urinated all over the whole country so it is their territory.

      They feel like they can then decide what is good and right everywhere they STAND.

      So Fogen felt enabled (and then he WAS ENABLED) to defend HIS territory by killing someone who did not belong there but who would not SUBMIT to his authority when he chose to remove him.

      B-37 felt that Fogen’s heart was “in the right place” because his heart was in the same place HERS was. She felt that “those people” who live in “their [separate and inferior] lifestyle” like Rachel really do NOT have the right to be “oh just anywhere” as if they own the place. She feels that she and Fogen own the place (America) and “those people” are interlopers who sometimes need to be dealt with. It’s about WHOSE GROUND this is. She doesn’t believe it’s everyone’s (including Trayvon’s); she believes it’s HERS. Trayvon couldn’t “stand HIS ground” because it was not his; it was Fogen’s.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Exactly. If she was completely honest, she might have said just that. She’s unable to understand her own sentiments.

      • groans says:

        That juror B-37 is SOOOO prejudiced that, despite all the things she recognized and stated that CAC did wrong, it never even OCCURRED to her that it was Trayvon who was standing his ground! That it was Trayvon who was minding his own business … until he had to run away from a creepy stalker while yakking on the phone with a friend … and he would have just kept yakking to his friend if CAC hadn’t hunted him down and “arrested” him, without so much as an introduction or explanation.

        B-37’s interview told us a WHOLE lot more than she (in her fog of prejudice and ignorance) will probably ever realize!

        Talk about the “dumbing down” of America…!! It’s B-37 incarnate.

    • LBTG says:

      Powerful words Crazy1946 & Malisha.
      Where does all this hate & entitlement come from. I was born 21 years after women got the right to vote. I grew up during the transition from where everything revolved around men to women’s rights. Things changed from women & children are a man’s property – TO – women are people too. Don’t get me started.

      That was the time of the feminist movement. When I went back to college for computer science, I hated that all the textbooks had masculine pronouns (he, him, his). Birth control pills came available around 1965. I was shocked at Roe vs Wade in 1973, because this new right seemed to be completely out-of-line with the current thinking of that time.

      The AA made progress with Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King, the first black student admitted to a Georgia university etc. They made so much progress that I predicted we’d have a black president before we’d have a woman president. If Clinton hadn’t sided with the Republicans on the Iraq war issue, she may have won the presidential election.

      The Jews have had their share of sorrow (Hitler).

      What makes hatred so strong that people would kill another person (or group of people) with righteous anger and feel entitled to become a hero in the eyes of others? Does it come from the Bible or religious beliefs? (Attack on America – 911)

      We’ve made a lot of progress and the conservatives in leadership are pushing back. We cannot let progress go backwards. As President Obama said during his campaign: “Forward – not backward.”

      • crazy1946 says:

        LBTG, I agree with all your words except one small part, and that is the part about Hillary Clinton. She was so feared by the GOP that they could not allow her to be a candidate, so to prevent her from becoming the nominee of the Democrats in 2007 they encouraged the GOP membership to change their voter registration and vote for the unelectable choice, Obama! Well little did they realize that due to their own actions they would elect a black man to their white office and into their white house. Since that happened the civil rights movement has regressed and until we as a nation stand firm and refuse to accept that racism as a political tool is acceptable it will continue to fall by the wayside. I personally refuse to sit by and see my fellow country men/women/children be placed into classes whether it be by race/money/or!!!! All men are equal in the eyes of GOD, and any one that claims other wise can never really be a Christian…….

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @crazy1946

          i would go so far to suggest that christianity (be it real or feigned) has little to do with it. even us heathens and non believers tend to have more just and sure moral compasses to know that bigotry and murder is wrong.

          my husband is an atheist, i call myself an agnostic. we do not kill or engage in racial discrimination not because of the bible, nor even because of laws. we do not do these things because we know that it is wrong and deprives our fellow man of their basic human rights.

          think about it — have you ever found yourself pondering ‘i sure wish i could kill X! damn, those stupid murder laws!’. no, of course not. it is not the law nor the bible that stops you, but something much deeper.

          • crazy1946 says:

            fauxmccoy, The only true part that religion (IMO) plays in this case is a small part. It is an example of social engineering aka as human mind re-engineering to compel a person to accept an unproven fact as truth…. It is in many cases a learned trait and not something we are born with, much like racism. We are instructed (in many cases) about not only religion but in too many cases attitudes toward our fellow mankind up to and including racism….. It has been many years since I had even the passing thought of taking another human life, actually not since I was sent to SE Asia to murder another race of people in the name of our country! Law in this respect does not defer me nor as you say a religious commitment, but simply have no need to deprive another of their right to life……

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @crazy

            understood šŸ™‚ good sharing ideas with you, buddy.

          • LBTG says:

            Christianity has an influence in killing ideas. Women – submit yourselves to your husbands…. Homosexuality is an abomination in the eyes of the Lord. Slaves obey your masters. Early Christians separated themselves from the Jewish people with “the Jews killed Jesus.” These ideas drive Christians to become slaves of the Bible and enforce these ideas on “faith”.

            I was raised ultra-right Missouri Synod Lutheran. When I later hung around Unitarian Universalists, I became aware of my assumptions and that these so-called Godless people had a lot more Christlike qualities than the Christians.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @LBTG — somewhat reminiscent of ghandi saying “i like your christ, i do not like your christians’.

            i grew up in a liberal presbyterian church, i liked it very much, but chose to leave as a young adult because i knew i just could not buy the whole ‘virgin birth’ thing. that was a deal breaker and if you cannot accept that, where does that leave you? it was a difficult transition, there are things i miss — choir etc. i have no ill will toward anyone with any religious beliefs, but christian piety combined with hypocrisy it a bit hard to take.

          • cielo62 says:

            faux mccoy~ as usual, you beat me to the comment, and as usual SAID it way better than me! Part of our social rearing is aligning our natural instincts for social behavior with the moral standards in our society. I teach morality to my students and NEVER have to mention the bible or even god. Children “GET” being fair to others. They “GET” being honest and truthful. I don’t know when it gets lost, jaded or abandoned, but I still have those values and many others do too, regardless of religion or lack thereof.

            ________________________________

          • fauxmccoy says:

            famed atheist penn jillette says it best

            http://imgur.com/jzxfEEr

        • cielo62 says:

          crazy~ America is not a christian nation, not by words, deed or proclamation. As a non christian myself, I’m glad for that. I can speak my truth about justice and not worry about some religious nut quoting the bible at me re: the biblical authority about {whatever; slavery, women’s rights, gays, adultery, etc…}. MY moral authority comes from deeper than a book.

          ________________________________

          • crazy1946 says:

            Considering that the majority of the founding fathers were not Christian and were in fact Deists, it would be seem that if one were to claim that it was founded and still continues to be a Christian nation, it would be a claim not founded in factual data. I personally believe in live and let live when it comes to religion and base my opinions and feeling for other people on more important things such as empathy for others, honor, treatment of our fellow man kind and just as import their treatment of other inhabitants of this planet (animals and etc.).
            Now why would you be scared to visit my rock, my four legged child (as well as myself) is a sucker for a sweet voice and a gentle touch….. trust me, he can be compromised! šŸ™‚

          • cielo62 says:

            crazy~ Well, OK then.Ā  šŸ™‚Ā Ā  Sweet music and a sweet treat usually do the trick! Seriously, I agree that empathy, honor and all those values you mentioned are NOT copyrighted by any one religion (although too many christians feel they have the patent on them). I know we’d get along just fine!

            ________________________________

  77. SlingTrebuchet says:

    I should bring some balance to the discussion of Juror B37.
    Her interview was not all bad. Really šŸ™‚

    She says that although she came from the courtroom thinking “not guilty”, two of them thought “manslaughter” and one of them “M2”.
    She indicated that the final verdict was ruled by the jury instructions and not by what the jury believed.

    She says that she is sure that Zimmerman lied (“fabrications and enhancements”).
    She says that nobody knows where Zimmerman went in those 2 unexplained minutes.
    She says that Zimmerman should not have got out of the truck, that he didn’t know where to stop because he was frustrated and so badly wanted to catch those people.
    She says that she would not be happy to have Zimmerman on her neighborhood watch if he behaved like he did that night.
    She says that Zimmerman confronted Martin.

    All of that was trumped in her mind because of “SYG” (which was NOT the defence ) – but let’s take it just that she meant her own limited concept of what “self defence” means.

    More on this at
    http://zimmermanscall.blogspot.com/p/verdict-and-juror-b37.html

    Aside: As for B37’s intelligence and communications skills v. Jeantel, consider her explanation of why Jeantel could not have heard anything of the fight.

    • Malisha says:

      Her explanations after the fact about what went on in the jury room are not to be believed, because naturally, since she told all this in the context of wanting her book to be a big hit, she was telling a story SHE LIKED TO TELL and she was telling a self-aggrandizing story and it is not more likely to be the truth than Fogen’s story about what happened that night.

      The major point is that she lied during voir dire.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I’d agree with you, Malisha. Plus, the other four white jurors distanced themselves from her and said her story is not their story. So no point defending her at this time.

    • Xena says:

      @SlingTrebuchet.

      Aside: As for B37ā€²s intelligence and communications skills v. Jeantel, consider her explanation of why Jeantel could not have heard anything of the fight.

      Right! She also thought that the physician’s assistant who testified about recognizing voices in Viet Nam, is a doctor.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Don’t forget that she referred to the peaceful demonstrations in Sanford last year as “riots” during voir dire.

    • ay2z says:

      Rachael, he’s good!

      But I don’t agree that we don’t know what happened that night.
      We know that Trayvon did not divert into a dark area to entrap his stalker, we know Trayvon did not think to ‘arm’ himself with his big can of soft drink or remove his ear pieces and put his phone away for safe keeping,

      Instead, Trayvon was headed to where he belonged, bee line, as the crow flies as closly as possible.

      We know he was prepared to use his firearm to kill because that was the intent of the firearm purchase and training and choice of no safety feature, quick and immediate use once drawn from his waistband, no delays, until he got the bullet aimed at a place and in a way to be ‘on’ target, for a kill shot with a hollow point.

      This was not a shot where it was a dangerous use of a firearm to ‘others’, to sleeping or playing children or their families.

      This was a neat package of events, circumstances that were idea to surveille, push, worry, and read the intent of this young man, to push him back into darkness and somehow get to him with a flashlight ‘off’.

      Trayvon could not prepare, did not prepare, and let this man in the direction of his home, and he did not know gz got out of his car, ‘he ran’, ‘you basically wrote him off at that point?” (serino to gz), “Yeah”.

      We know the child, the woman, the young adult, the middle aged person, who would be followed like this, would be wary, alert to possible danger and keep moving. It’s what people are told to do.

      The idea that ‘he’s coming towards me now’ was taken as Trayvon advancing on fogen, is rediculous at the point where fogen says it happened. Trayvon was walking towards home, and gz inserted himself at the clubhouse, between the direction Trayvon was walking, and parked and waited and called. Of course he was coming ‘towards’ fogen, Trayvon would have had to alter completely, his direct path towards home, and head away from home to not continue his path home.

      • Rachael says:

        I agree with you about not agreeing with that part. There were a couple of other things too, but he made some points about how this is part of a very scary bigger picture too.

    • Rachael says:

      Thank you.

    • Malisha says:

      Let me understand: does this petition ask for action from COREY? I don’t want to ask her for action because that gives HER a chance to make another theatrical production to avoid being investigated by the feds for what SHE did deliberately to screw this trial. We need to demand DOJ investigation of B-37 and everyone else who deliberately derailed the trial down there, not an insider pretending to police another insider. B-37 is Corey’s best friend in this mess; she’s BDLR’s best friend in this mess; she’s Deborah Nelson’s best friend in this mess.

      Remember: Nelson wouldn’t let REAL voice experts testify but she allowed a silly cartoon that would influence the weak and dim minds of jurors and that was NOT AN ACCEPTED TECHNOLOGY to be shown at closing, when it was most influential. I say none of them is to be trusted with anything ever again.

  78. Woow! says:

    The DOJ is not going to go after CAC and that’s a shame.

    • Rachael says:

      Did you really think they would?

    • cielo62 says:

      Woow~! You know this for a fact? Have they said so?

      ________________________________

      • Woow! says:

        Common sense tells me they are not going to do anything but if they do I will be the first to admit I was wrong.

        I doubt I am wrong. If they refused to get involved and call what those boys in Jasper did the Mr. Byrd hate crime I highly doubt they would find CAC violated TM civil rights.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @woow

          as i understand it, the mathew shepard james byrd jr. hate crime act came into being specifically because of those horrific acts. bush threatened veto and it was not signed until obama came into office. bush’s DoJ of course refused to do anything federally to the sick fucks (excuse my language, please, can think of no more appropriate words) who perpetrated these crimes. both crimes occurred in 1998 and the previous ‘hate crime act’ only provided protection while the victim was engaged in a federally protected activity such as voting or going to school.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard_and_James_Byrd,_Jr._Hate_Crimes_Prevention_Act

  79. ay2z says:

    When is a lie not a lie?

    When you get your spouse to do the lying and take all the blame for you?

    When you are never held accountable for anything anyway?

    When you have a bad memory anyway?

    When the lie doesn’t sound like you lying anyway?

    When you can get away with a lie about not knowing you were recorded anyway?

    When you wife gets the charges dropped because you were found not guilty of the crime you committed anyway?

  80. colin black says:

    In Scotland we have a jury of 15 an the possible return of three verdicts

    Not Guilty aquited of you go frre man or Woman.
    Guilty as charged ..Down you go your convicted.
    Or
    Not Proven..Wich means the jury doesn’t think the person was nessesry innocen yet not enough evidence was produced to convict at this time.
    But if at a future date any new evidence comes to light then the accused will stand trial again for the crime.

    • colin black says:

      An all verdcts are majority that’s why 15 jurours there can never be a tie at say 6 each if there were an even number of jururs.

      Majority rules in Scots law.
      Wich in turn is based on Anceint Roman Law from the Roman Senate.

    • Olivia says:

      “But if at a future date any new evidence comes to light then the accused will stand trial again for the crime.”

      That’s interesting. Last I heard, the percentage of USA population imprisoned is higher than the percentage imprisoned anywhere else in the world.

      I would think that new evidence being a reason for a new trial might cause Scotland to rank higher than the USA in the percentage of population imprisoned, but that doesn’t appear to be the reality.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I think we need to adopt not proven for serious crimes!

  81. colin black says:

    Unfriggin believable

    I visited Statement Analiysis site an a guy P Hyat while extremely fond of laudingis own gifts in detecting lies ect.

    Self Promotion is no promotion in my opinion.

    I useally concur with most of his opinions not all but the majority.

    Well this prick only has a couple of articles backing foggage
    Stateing he was TRUTHFULL

    I jest not

    But the comments below are filled with hate full spitefull unfrigging believable vile things about his Family TRAYVONS an an love ones
    I was almos t speechless

    I waent so radio rental I let my dyslexia word blindness get the better of me.

    Its so frustrating I cant even txt an people just don’t understand why.

    I first had a pc I coulour codd hekeys or sort of

    P was pink tape on top O was orange

    W white tape G reen H I had a wee pic of a horse Y yellow A I had a BUM an so on an so on.

    TillIve finaly figured out where all thease blighter are LETTERS that is.

    Words are no problem but letters iT s like alien or hieroglyphics.

    An they don’t even stay the same apparently its th raret form of dyslexia all I know is its a pain in the ass in this techno Era

    I never used t pay it no heed when I left education s I knew I was never going to be a typist by profffesion.

    But this innerwebb thingy revelution caught beoff gaurdan at an extreme disadvantage.

    Luckily I went to a special secondry were we were taught to use a type writer with the coulorcode I described a be.
    Well color code or visul code what ever suits

    Like so I re used it an made my own colour coded key board
    For K forinstance I wrote a wee kinks cause I know kinks starts with a K.

    But now my friggin eyesight going as well.

    I think it shows in this angry reply I wrote to one of P Hyatts readrers
    Or as I will re name him P Hate.

    July 20, 2013 at 1:45 PM

    Blogger ecossie possie said…
    Georgia Girl said…
    I think George had no other choice.Trayvon punched him in the nose and got the better of George.Poor George can never have a life without watching his back at all times.All the race baiters made this into something it was not.Trayvon’s parents have gotten lots of money in those trashcans they pass around.I pray for the Zimmermans and wish them well.They seem to be very nice people.

    Id buy you a dimond rihg my friend if it would make you seem ok.

    Ah cant say to much for money but money cant buy you LOVE.
    Cant buy you love
    No No no NO

    An it also cantnot buy you the return of a MURDERED CHILD
    Shot through the heart with a hollow point bullet.
    With the imminent arrival of PLICE an safety
    Safytey for Trayvn

    Arrest for illegaly detain a minor at gun point for wannabe herocop/murderer/raceist P OS / Zimmerman

    He kew the police were imminent an he had a wrist lock on hisvictim an was no where ner death

    Ive had worse cuts fucking shaveing.

    He MURDERED TRAYVON beause TRAYVON was a legal tenant an invited geust of a HOME OWNER.

    The murder wasnot a legal resident he was sqating ina home in fore clousure because he refused to pay RENT TO THE LAND LORD.

    He had a few centshalf a dollar in his man purse

    An 16 dollars in xa checking account of to buy a weeks worth of grogeries?

    Yeah sure he was with a loaded gun that he carried every where but forgot all about.

    Even although he claims to b egetting beaten to death.

    Anonly remembered he had it when he though t he say the Black gut looking at it in the pith dark so pulled it out agter getting him in a wrist lock an shot him one time.

    An when te Police arrived an said
    Who shot him
    He said I did even although later he will claim to not know he had shot him thought he had missed an didn’t even know he was dead.

    An that I suppose he thought they cover all surviveing missed gun shot victims ith a yellow death blanket.

    Sure sure his Parents got some fucking money so did this murdering piece of shit

    An hey Trayvons Parents ould give every cent back a hunded billion fold if this just ddnt happen if they coul hold an love the re son again

    If raceist pieces of shit an ppoligists lik you an PETER HYAT didn’t alow an encourage such thugs as Zimmerman with your slightly right of ATTILA THE HUN POLITICS an blatant Raceist Mind sets

    fir shame to thin I once respected you a was foled again .

    I suppose because I being a human being an part of the human race as oppsed toany colour or cred .
    An see every one of us as human homo sapin an not a differing race as an ifeior differing specie .

    That view point I notonly archacic it fucking nsane man game over you pratz.

    July 21, 2013 at 10:34 PM

    • Olivia says:

      Colin,

      That you post in spite of your dyslexia is something to be proud of. It couldn’t be easy to do.

      “Seamus” seems to form an opinion about a person, and then make his so-called scientific statement analysis fit his opinion.

      • Olivia says:

        Also, Seamus claims to now or formerly be employed by a northeastern USA state as a child protective services worker.

        Which is a bit frightening to me. I hope he doesn’t use his version of statement analysis to judge the parents or guardians of children that he has contact with as an employee or former employee of the state.

        • Malisha says:

          Olivia, I am sorry to report to you that about 3/4 of all the protecctive services workers I have ever met were not only bigots but also liars themselves. It’s astonishing how easy it is to get that job; you don’t even have to show that you’re not an abuser yourself. I know of CPS workers whose own children are not only OBVIOUSLY physically abused, I know of two in Iowa whose mother was DIRECTOR of CPS and both those kids were beaten AND molested and one of them was a little arsonist who even set fire to a cabin at summer camp. CPS workers have relatively low-paying jobs but unlimited power and the abusive people LOVE THAT JOB.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            malisha — this will not shock or surprise you, but when my husband (then boyfriend) and i were in college and spent ‘date night’ at the battered womens’ shelter, one of our local CPS workers was arrested for leaving his 9 month old in his car in below freezing temps at 3 AM so he could partake in his gambling obsession. god only knows how long the situation had been ongoing. that was before i became an employee there, we were both mandated reporters as a result of our training/jobs with the shelter. every time we were in a situation where we were supposed to make that call to CPS, we always wondered if we were in fact doing the right thing.

          • Malisha says:

            Faux, I feel your pain. Often I have wondered what to do when I suspected abuse, because making a report puts the kid into the jaws of the CPS workers who are often just power-hungry terrorists with absolute control of children’s lives. I know a kid who was interviewed by a CPS worker and when he said he was not abused by his mother and wanted to go home to his mother, the worker called him a “wus” and told him that until he changed his mind, he was never going to get any privileges in the group home he was locked up in. Six weeks later they still hadn’t changed his mind so they proceeded without him and never let him see his mother again. He wrote notes and tried to smuggle them out telling his mother to try to find him at various places and even wrote suicide notes and the CPS workers threw the out or sometimes confronted him with them and punished him by taking away his possessions.

            You don’t even know when you should report abuse because the kids can get subjected to even worse abuse in the system.

    • longtimegeek says:

      I’ve read that website on and off for a couple of years. It’s pretty good. I found it really odd that it essentially didn’t cover this case, because GZ is low hanging fruit for statement analysis (which is about identifying lies, for those who don’t know). Not covering this case was a dead give away about it’s stance on the case.

      The comments are normally positive towards the blog owner and his family, but many people have commented that they are leaving the blog, because of this case. Other people have been commenting about GZ’s lying, which is fallling on deaf ears. It’s another example of the power of racism. A professional lie detector is blind to GZ’s lies!!! I don’t see myself continuing to read the blog for long, because I’m so turned off. But, for now, I’m still trying to learn about why people fall for lies, and this is a stunning example.

      My favorite blog for lie detection is Eyes for Lies, which is a much better blog, even though Eyes doesn’t post as much. She is an amazing lie detector and doesn’t need to study people in detail to figure them out. She doesn’t believe GZ or John Good. She does believe Rachel Jeantel.

    • jodiwankanobi says:

      haha Colin i LOVE your reply….you made very good points and gave them a virtual beat down at the same time….love it!!!

  82. racerrodig says:

    Here is the link to the petition I started to have Fogen prosecuted.

    http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Prosecute_George_Zimmeramn_for_a_hate_crime/?copy

  83. fauxmccoy says:

    some ‘feel good’ stuff that did come from this whole sorry situation

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Law-Office-of-Rod-Vereen-and-Associates/117755498398311

  84. KateW says:

    Someone on social media just posted this. A mistrial was declared in a case after a guilty verdict!!!

    There may be hope after all. But I wonder what the laws are in Florida and would they even grant this. I have read some of the posts here that said mistrials were granted but in extreme cases. In this case there was extreme misconduct on the part of them allowing unsupervised visits to family members. Also they need to find out when this agent for this book deal was contacted. They also need to find out what juror was relaying information going on during deliberations.

    Here is that link to the mistrial declared after a guilty verdict.

    http://nashua.patch.com/groups/police-and-fire/p/mistrial-declared-weeks-after-guilty-verdict

    • LBTG says:

      The difference is the guilty verdict as in Tibbs vs Florida
      http://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/457/31/

    • fauxmccoy says:

      @katew

      the case you brought up with a mistrial declared after trial was on a guilty verdict. fred will correct me if i am wrong, but there can be no mistrial declared upon acquittal, to do so would violate the 5th amendment (double jeopardy).

      – – – – –
      from cornell law school

      ” Reprosecution Following Acquittal.ā€”That a defendant may not be retried following an acquittal is ā€œthe most fundamental rule in the history of double jeopardy jurisprudence.ā€90 ā€œ[T]he law attaches particular significance to an acquittal. To permit a second trial after an acquittal, however mistaken the acquittal may have been, would present an unacceptably high risk that the Govern[p.1289]ment, with its vastly superior resources, might wear down the defendant so that ā€˜even though innocent he may be found guilty.ā€ā€™91 While in other areas of double jeopardy doctrine consideration is given to the publicā€“safety interest in having a criminal trial proceed to an errorā€“ free conclusion, no such balancing of interests is permitted with respect to acquittals, ā€œno matter how erroneous,ā€ no matter even if they were ā€œegregiously erroneous.ā€92

      The acquittal being final, there is no governmental appeal constitutionally possible from such a judgment. This was firmly established in Kepner v. United States,93 which arose under a Philippines appeals system in which the appellate court could make an independent review of the record, set aside the trial judgeā€™s decision, and enter a judgment of conviction.94 Previously, under the due process clause, there was no barrier to state provision for prosecutorial appeals from acquittals.95 But there are instances in which the trial judge will dismiss the indictment or information without intending to acquit or in circumstances in which retrial would not be barred, and the prosecution, of course, has an interest in seeking on appeal to have errors corrected. Until 1971, however, the law providing for federal appeals was extremely difficult to apply and insulated from review many purportedly erroneous legal rulings,96 but in that year Congress enacted a new statute permitting appeals in all criminal cases in which indictments are dis[p.1290]missed, except in those cases in which the double jeopardy clause prohibits further prosecution.97 In part because of the new law, the Court has dealt in recent years with a large number of problems in this area.”

      (http://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/html/amdt5afrag3_user.html)

      • KateW says:

        Yes, it was a guilty verdict; however, why is there a reversal for one and not the other? I wanted to share it anyway because I said the same thing to the person and then they put this one up.

        http://books.google.com/books?id=aff7-FxdlqAC&pg=PT440&lpg=PT440&dq=%22mistrial+after+verdict%22&source=bl&ots=n5zpW3INzR&sig=F_zT7HTAHsO64FvIrVu_3mBFtsc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=FZDsUdCMN6G4igKM8oCACw&ved=0CGQQ6AEwBw

        • fauxmccoy says:

          as i said, a mistrial after acquittal violates the 5th amendment — but i’ll take a look at the link you provided.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          the link you provided was a personal injury case (civil) NOT a criminal case. i do not think you will find a mistrial declared post acquittal on a criminal case, not ever. it violates the 5th amendment, that simple.

          • Xena says:

            @fauxmccoy. There is one case where the accused was tried twice for the same murder. The initial trial was held in Cook County, IL. The defense attorney arranged for a bench trial with a judge who could be bribed. The defendant’s name was Harry Aleman.

            The state case moved up to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit. That court held that an act of fraud resulted in acquittal; and the defendant can be retried again for the same crime without it being double jeopardy because the defendant was never in jeopardy to begin with.

            I’m not sure how this would apply to fraud within a jury.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            ok, so there is 1, under extremely peculiar circumstances. honestly, do you think gz will be tried again for the same crime?

          • Xena says:

            @fauxmccoy.

            do you think gz will be tried again for the same crime?

            Not by the State of Florida, and also because there are laws to try fraudulent jury members.

      • concernedczen says:

        There have been mistrials after an acquittal in the past when jury tampering was shown.

        The chances of that happening in this case (even if clear evidence of jury tampering is found) are none to none.

      • Malisha says:

        Faux, correct.
        Mistrial after guilty verdict is perfectly all right and consistent with due proces.

        NOTHING can change an acquittal.

        Federal prosecution, however, can follow a failed state prosecution if, in the state prosecution, the state did not apply constitutional principles and also because the double jeopardy for state and federal prosecutions has already been dealt with. MANY people have been convicted federally after being acquitted in state courts of associated crimes. Rodney King I think was an example of that.

        • Malisha says:

          Here’s what Wikipedia says about it:

          Rodney Glen King (April 2, 1965 ā€“ June 17, 2012) was an African-American construction worker who, while on parole for robbery, became nationally known after being beaten by Los Angeles police officers following a high-speed car chase on March 3, 1991. George Holliday, a resident in the nearby area, witnessed the beating and videotaped much of it from the balcony of his nearby apartment.

          The videotaped footage shows five Los Angeles area officers surrounding King and several of them striking him repeatedly. During the beating of King, other officers stood by, without seeming to take action to stop King from being struck. A portion of the footage was aired around the world, inflaming public outrage in Los Angeles and other American cities where racial tension was often high. The videotape also increased public sensitivity to, and anger about, police brutality, racism, and other social inequalities throughout the United States.

          Four of the police officers from the LAPD who engaged in the incident were charged in Los Angeles County Superior Court with assault with a deadly weapon and use of excessive force for their conduct during the incident. After a judicial finding that a fair and impartial jury could not be impaneled in Los Angeles County, the case was given a change of venue to the city of Simi Valley, in Ventura County, where they were tried. On April 29, 1992, three of the four police officers, (Koon, Wind, and Briseno) were acquitted of all charges. The jury acquitted the fourth officer, (Powell), on the assault with a deadly weapon charge but failed to reach a verdict on the use of excessive force charge. The jury deadlocked at 8-4 in favor of acquittal.
          The acquittals are generally considered to have triggered the 1992 Los Angeles riots, in which 53 people were killed, and over two thousand were injured. The riots ended after soldiers from the United States Army National Guard, along with United States Marines from nearby Camp Pendleton, California, were called in to assist local authorities and quell the riots.

          On August 4, 1992 a Federal Grand Jury after hearing evidence from federal prosecutors, indicted the four officers on charges of violating King’s civil rights. The four men were put on trial on February 25, 1993 in the United States District Court for the Central District of California located in downtown Los Angeles. On April 16, 1993 the trial ended with two of the police officers, (Koon and Powell) found guilty, and subsequently imprisoned. The other two officers, (Wind and Briseno) were acquitted.

          Now, if we did not get a US Supreme Court ruling in favor of the convicted police officers after the 1993 conviction for beating Rodney King, I’d say we certainly can’t rule out a federal prosecution of Fogen in 2014 or so for violation of Trayvon Martin’s civil rights. Rodney King’s case certainly WAS a high profile case and guess what: Rodney King was NOT perfect; he was NOT a choirboy. Yet his civil rights were supposed to be protected by our federal government, the same federal government that is required to offer redress for the violation of Trayvon Martin’s civil rights NOW.

          AND we can look to DOJ to investigate NOT just the death of Trayvon Martin but the prosecution of Fogen and see if THAT violated anybody’s civil rights.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          yes, of course. that is not double jeopardy as different crimes are being prosecuted under different jurisdictions. i certainly think the DoJ should pursue, but i do not expect charges, much less a conviction. it would be a rare case indeed if he would be re-tried for murder under any jurisdiction due to anything which was mistrial worthy. as far as i know, acquittal = acquittal.

          i have seen a few people bring this info up and don’t want anyone to get their hopes up for a mistrial in the original M2 trial after acquittal, because it just does not happen.

  85. colin black says:

    When is Jodi Arias re do over her death sentence miss trial unable to decide verdict thingy comeing up ?

    ps off topic obviously.

    I need me a Marqez fix after the inefectulall prosecution not that it would have changed a pre ordained jury verdict mindset.

    • colin black says:

      If only foggage had pulled this atrocity in Arizonia Marqez would have torn up his ass so bud that he would never suffer from constipation again.

      An he would have done so not mob handed thrre people.

      Nope single handidly Marqez in da BOMB.

  86. colin black says:

    To tune of jingle bells .

    Jungle Yells Jungle YELLS
    Trayvon didn’t say.
    Yo Homie a problem is comeing your way

    Jungle YELLS Jungle Yells
    Zimmerman did say fists were comeing his way
    An he pulled out his gun an shot Tracys SON

    Because he thought he was TRAVONS PRAY

    chourus.

    Running past the T a victim he did see an he showed no mercy he just let him plea an plea.
    For once he passed the T he was in scary terrorty the police an bells would come
    An see him with a gun so

    Jungle Yells Jungle Yells Jungle all the way the man in blue will not be true if your victim was a stray

    Jungle yells justice smells Trayvon was slayed the foggages gun
    was the one thing that got him away..
    Jungle Yells Jungle Yells aN WARRIOR MENTALITY.

  87. Sophia33 says:

    @smokeegryl:

    I went to the ACLU Web site. They did indeed write this letter.

    • colin black says:

      erm whats the ACLU ?

      cANT BE BOTHERED GOOGLEING OR READING ARTICLE TONIGHT TO TIRED ?

      • fauxmccoy says:

        colin — the ACLU stands for the American Civil Liberties Union. their purpose is to promote the civil rights of every american, even if that should be the KKK exercising their freedom of assembly and freedom of speech. they will provide legal representation for citizens whose civil rights have been violated, if necessary. i have been a supporter my entire adult life. they are generally mocked by our more conservative countrymen.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        from their own website

        “The ACLU is our nation’s guardian of liberty, working daily in courts, legislatures and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties that the Constitution and laws of the United States guarantee everyone in this country.

        These rights include:

        Your First Amendment rights – freedom of speech, association and assembly; freedom of the press, and freedom of religion.
        Your right to equal protection under the law – protection against unlawful discrimination.
        Your right to due process – fair treatment by the government whenever the loss of your liberty or property is at stake.
        Your right to privacy – freedom from unwarranted government intrusion into your personal and private affairs.

        The ACLU also works to extend rights to segments of our population that have traditionally been denied their rights, including people of color; women; lesbians, gay men, bisexuals and transgender people; prisoners; and people with disabilities.

        If the rights of society’s most vulnerable members are denied, everybody’s rights are imperiled. Support the ACLU today.”

        http://www.aclu.org/aclu-history

      • cielo62 says:

        American Civil Liberties Union.

        ________________________________

        • colin black says:

          ok Dokie Faux an cielo

          I get the picture they may not agree with what you say or do brigade but will fight to the death to preserve your right
          To either do or don’t do whatever it is you want to do or say.

          Liberal fucking hyprcritical fencesitting status quo its broken so don’t bother fixing it as it will just break down again head in the sand do Do nothing Fucktards..

          Nope never heard of people like that

          • Malisha says:

            When I went to them (about 100 times) looking for help with unconstitutional rulings that (for instance) mothers were not allowed to speak with their children about sexual abuse (many MANY courts order mothers not to discuss this with their children or they will lose custody AND visitation with the kids) and that children were not allowed to TELL people they had been abused (enforced by child protective services agencies in all 50 states), they would not help. We even BROUGHT them the amicus briefs already written and asked them to sign on and they said no. THEY also say that “money = speech” so folks like ALEC and KOCH can therefore control our government. To them, that is freedom.

      • Malisha says:

        American Civil Liberties Union.
        They’ve been on the wrong side of many big cases; they like the thrill of victory. Jackboots kinda get them all squishy too.

    • LBTG says:

      The ACLU letter is here:

      Click to access aclu_letter_to_ag_holder_re_gzimmerman_case.pdf

      ACLU is saying it would be Double Jeopardy to prosecute fogen for same transaction.

      • Malisha says:

        Not, however, if the state prosecution is shown to have been deliberately skewed. Also, federal prosecution is not ruled out by state prosecution for a different crime. He deprived Trayvon Martin of his civil rights from the beginning of the NEN call until the split second BEFORE shooting him in the heart. He does not need to be prosecuted for anything he did AFTER terrorizing the boy, chasing him, depriving him of his freedom, and twisting his wrist. The shot itself need not be considered. After all the state prosecution omitted every act right UP until the bullet hit Trayvon’s chest. So it is NOT the same act as the feds would prosecute for in case they indicted Fogen for the cursing, the racial profiling, the scaring, the chase, the terroristic threatening, the brandishing of the fire-arm. The state said that under Florida law, NONE OF THAT WAS ILLEGAL so they were not prosecuting him for any of that.

        If all of that taken together amounted to a hate crime.
        The fact that Trayvon Martin died from one to three minutes later does not change the fact that Fogen committed all these federal offenses BEFORE Trayvon Martin died.

    • Sophia33 says:

      That article starts off wrong from the beginning. It calls Eric Holder Secretary of Defense. That is Hagel. Eric Holder is the Attorney General.

      • smokeegyrl says:

        Well I mean to say now and instead of “not” so Sophia.. you think this letter is a “fake”

        • Sophia33 says:

          Not sure. I know the article is incorrect about Obama’s position. Not sure about the letter. Need to find other news sources. And the logic of the letter doesn’t seem right. But I’m not a legal scholar. Best to ask the professor.

      • Malisha says:

        It’s not impossible that the ACLU will take or has taken that position. I have not seen them respond to ACTUAL violations of the First Amendment; more often they respond to “violations” that they find sexy. They follow Dershowitz and Turley a lot. AND they have a lot more to say about the rights of Nazis than about the rights of kids like Trayvon Martin. I gave up on them before Y2K.

    • Sophia33 says:

      It appears they did if that letter in the article truly came from the ACLU. I do find it strange though because people have been tried for the same transaction in federal court before. This has especially been the case in Civil Rights issues. So I still find there letter bizarre.

    • smokeegyrl says:

      Well Professor is you see this… maybe you can reply.

  88. Sophia33 says:

    Martin Luther King, III has called on a boycott of Florida Orange Juice.

    • Olivia says:

      That’s great. Glad to hear of the boycotts.

      How about the Koch brothers?

      Anyone know if it is true that they contributed to Zimmerman’s defense fund?

    • colin black says:

      I thought he was out of his Floridian tax/pension murderous income haven

      If I did it

      Or foggages version how I did it hollow point an hollow rhetoric

      Anyhoo though O J was locked away in a Nevada Prison why boycott him.

      An should we boycott N A S A

      Disnney Star Wars Pan Handles?

      Seiriously I love orange juice I live on the stuff.

      • Sophia33 says:

        Does it have to be Florida Orange Juice?

      • fauxmccoy says:

        colin — does the UK import orange juice from florida? i would assume that there are much closer regions which produce significant orange crops such as spain, italy, and israel.

        your former produce stocking goddess,
        faux

        • colin black says:

          most of our oj comes from Isreal so lets not go there PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE.

          We promised them a long time ago that if thet stopped Murdering our Soldiers in Palisteine we would grant them Nation hood an buy there Oranges forever Jafffa very tasty to an juicy.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            all i am saying is that i know the proper climates for orange crops to thrive through my professional work and i figured you could easily avoid juice from florida.

            juice from blood oranges from italy or spain is fanfuckingtastic if you have not yet had the pleasure. i have a dwarf blood orange tree growing in a large container on my california patio and it makes me very happy šŸ™‚ (along with the rest of my dwarf citrus crop)

          • cielo62 says:

            colin~ Israel is a real passion of mine. British Jews lent millions of pounds to England to fight WWII, in exchange for that tiny piece of land they got after wards. They also personally BOUGHT millions of acres from nomads who did not have the same definition of land ownership. It is now a beautiful country torn by different definitions of ownership, not unlike the US. Many of the technological devices we use today were developed there, not just refining weapons. Let us not get into that bit of political wrangling. I support Israel. I’ll leave it at that.

            ________________________________

      • dianetrotter says:

        Can you buy fresh squeezed OJ locally?

    • colin black says:

      This is he type of fruit mentality that needs banning an boycotting this type of fruit is still ripe in America

    • J4TMinATL says:

      MLK’s sister says her brother would have agreed with verdict. WTF

  89. kllypyn says:

    I expected Serino and Singleton to do the right thing.Because at the end of the day an innocent kid was dead.they knew murderrman was lying you can tell by the tone of the questioning and the fact that serino recommended murder 2 ,3 times before he settled on manslaughter.

    They didn’t believe his story at all. And i guarantee you they knew the instant they heard those screams that was trayvon screaming.They seemed to be more concerned about covering their asses than the truth. They have no business being on any police force. Singleton was belligerant to the prosecution.what happened to speaking for the victim?

    If trayvon has survived his encounter with zimmerman HE MOST LIKELY WOULD HAVE BEEN THE ONLY ONE TO TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED THAT NIGHT. The prosecution dropped the ball way too many times. they were too damned timid and they let west get away with far too much,the judge included. they never mentioned the L: shaped tearing in trayvon’s shirts during the ballistic expert testimony. They should have pointed out the blood flow on murderman’s head and how it flowed toward his face. they should have tore the expert apArt with that nonsense about gravity AND the crap ABOUT PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO MOVE AFTER BEING SHOT IN THE HEART. THAT MAY HAPPEN WITH LOWER LIFE FORMS BUT NOT HUMANS.

    IN TRAYVON’S CASE HE FELL WHERE HE STOOD. THEY ALLOWED THE DEFENSE TO PUT TRAYVON ON TRIAL.They should have never let the defense get away with using an obviously doctored photo. Zimmerman never had any horizontal cuts on his head. I also believe the defense knowingly allowed people to lie under oath,because they know damned well that was not Zimmerman screaming.

    The defense won their case by lying cheating and suborning perjury. And it didn’t hurt that the jurors didn’t do their jobs as required by law. they completely ignored those screams. which were the last words spoken by trayvon.He wasn’t just screaming.He was crying. Trayvon was so scared he was crying. I believe he started to cry because he saw those people who saw part of what was going on and did nothing and he realized they were gonna let him get killed.J

    eremy and that Jena lady whatever her name is saw more than they are telling. Jon the mma liar also saw more than they are telling. they may have even seen the murder it self. they saw Trayvon trying to get away when he was shot. they just don’t care because he was just a black kid.

    Trayvon was innocent he did nothing. he was the one who was assaulted he simply defended himself and tried to escape. the Martin’s need to let it all hang out tell the world what they think about the SPD the Zimmerman and conservative groups. If i were them i’d call them out on every lie they’ve ever told.about Trayvon. I’d call out the Zimmerman’s i’d call out their friends i’d call out Zimmerman’s lawyers. i’d call out Serino i’d call ,out Singleton and i would call out the jurors because there was more than enough evidence to put Zimmerman away for life.I wouldn’t criticise the prosecution but i would mention evidence which wasn’t detailed more.

    The time for patty cake is over they don’t have to worry about messing up the case. the time has come to tell the world how they feel and to defend their son more vigorously. Trayvon cant defend himself against those lies it’s up to them. Stop letting the zimmerman’s continue to tell those obvious lies. even they know Trayvon never attacked Murderman. I’m not trying to criticise the martins i just think they need to let people know what trayvon was really like get his friends to say something. Even now after the trial; The zimmerman’s and their buddies continue to trash him. THEY MUST NOT ALLOW THAT TO CONTINUE. Trayvon can’t defend his reputation so the ball is in their court.

    • Jasmine says:

      Do you know what got me about Jeremy and John?? They went outside after the shot. Now if it was too dark to see much how in the world did they feel safe enough to go outside with the shooter who was still roaming around and Offc. Smith who came on the scene with his gun holstered. No they did not have anything to fear from the shooter therefore they had to have known that it was Fogen. Normal people hide if they hear shooting and don’t come out until the cops arrive because it is unsafe. We have something to fear but they did not. So yeah they saw what Fogen did and did nothing, nothing to help Trayvon and I hope that it haunts them everyday for the rest of their lives.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I agree – reasonable people would not go outside after a shot. They might look out their windows. Jeremy and John knew Fogen did the shooting.

      • Mojo says:

        I always wondered the same thing. Who the hell goes outside to check out what happened right after hearing a gun shot?

    • Olivia says:

      Jeremy didn’t testify. Jeremy, who saw and heard BEFORE and AFTER Zimmerman fired a bullet into Trayvon’s heart.

      He saw and heard before and after. His wife only heard before, and from a distance further away.

      Jeremy had more to testify about than his wife did, but the prosecutors did not let the jurors hear from him.

    • colin black says:

      Why not seems par for the course at least in two Floridian trials Ive watched

      CAYLEES was Murdered an the defence in that case used

      Even more blatant photo shoped photos of Caylee reaching up an opening a slideing screen door.

      The image was stretched an one of the trainers was obviouslt doubled over an under lieing image.

      Caylee wasn’t even Thrre when her life ended an was short slightly pudgy like most toddlers.

      An yet the I,age shown in court showed a slender taller Caylee at least 6 inches taller than any preiviously seen images.

      And there were thousands of images.

      But thease were blatantly manipulated an unchallenged and like foggage a blatantly guilty person walks despite lie up on lie an lie lie lie.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      I agree with you, Jasmine.

    • longtimegeek says:

      The prosecution has received a lot of criticism for not presenting their own version of events in their closing statement. I donā€™t know why they couldnā€™t have presented something like the following, instead of just letting the defense tell multiple tall and conflicting tales. I posted a similar sequence of events before, but this is a work in progress for me. I’m trying to remind myself of elements of the story that are powerful to me. For example, you reminded me about TM crying. Thank you!

      GZ pushed TM to the ground and jumped on top of him, causing TM to say ā€œGet off, get offā€! About 30 seconds later, TM started yelling and screaming for 40+ continuous seconds, including blood-curdling screaming, because GZ had a gun on him and probably because GZ said things to him like, ā€œI got you. Youā€™re going to die, tonight.ā€ Even though TM was in the backyard of many homes with their lights on at about 7 pm (a place where he probably didnā€™t consider his life to be in threat) and at a time when many different people might be walking their dogs through a well known dog walk area, no one could help him, even if they wanted to. GZ disregarded everyone who stepped or yelled outside their homes, who could have helped TM, while TM continued screaming. GZ, who had the gun and who hadnā€™t suffered any life threatening injuries during the first ~30 seconds or even the next 40+ seconds, certainly wasnā€™t looking for help for himself. He took one fatal shot aimed at TMā€™s heart, as TM cried. One fatal shot that had TMā€™s shirt and sweatshirt simultaneously pulled down and to the left by half a foot of the shot that went directly into his heart. TM was either still on the bottom, as many witnesses saw at some point, or was managing get up and trying to pull away from GZ, so he could run away again.

      After GZ took a single fatal shot, he was calm, including his vital signs, and he never did anything at all to help TM. Worse, he (insert stuff he did to TM that made me stop being able to follow this case for months, because I still canā€™t.) GZā€™s calm and actions afterwards were not indicative of a person who had been continuously screaming for 40+ seconds, a person who had just been through a traumatic event, or a person who had regard for human life. His message to his wife was, ā€œJust tell her I shot someone.ā€ Many months later, he still has no regrets, he still wouldnā€™t change anything, and he said it was Godā€™s plan. He was still calm, cold blooded and without any remorse.

      Based on GZā€™s own accounts, every action he took that night was inconsistent with his years of criminology, neighborhood watch, concealed weapons permit, bouncer, MMA, etc. training, much of which repeated the same concepts. GZā€™s only role in his neighborhood was to use he eyes and ears. TM was not engaged and did not even appear to be engaged in an illegal activity, so GZ should have moved on. He was not to follow, something NEN reminded him of. He was not to follow with a gun. He was not to stalk. He was not to confront. Even if GZ and TM happened to run into each other at some point, GZ was obligated to identify himself, which he never did. Instead, he huffed and puffed his way to TM, far away from his vehicle, behind buildings, and attacked him. Even martial arts training, as violent as it can be, is about avoiding conflict first and foremost. Then, itā€™s about defense. Itā€™s about offense as needed. Lethal force is a last resort. GZ wrongfully racially profiled an unarmed teenager, and appointed himself judge, jury and executioner.

      • Malisha says:

        The prosecution could have made their own little cartoon, you know. They had time once they learned of the defense cartoon. The prosecution cartoon (it would only have taken a computer animator with a decent program about 8 hours) could have shown Fogen leaving his house after telling Shellie, “Don’t worry cutie pie, tonight I’ll bring in a suspect and then we’ll be bigshots here and nobody will care if we can’t pay our rent.” Then he gets in the truck and drives around and finds TM. Then he does what our timeline shows, and NONE of what he has told Singleton, Serino or Erwin. Or Osterman. Then he cuts off TM from the south and comes up on him where the first piece of evidence falls. He shoves TM and says, in the cartoon, “What you doing around here, n****r?” [remember, the cartoon is not evidence, just used for “demonstration” so it does not have to be accurate] TM runs and Fogen follows, both of them flailing arms, past the windows of two homes. Fogen catches Trayvon and they struggle and then fall and roll around for a minute and then Fogen grabs TM as TM briefly gets enough space to run away. John Good comes out and sees part of the struggle and Fogen yells to him, “Help me get this n****r, help me help me help me” and Good goes back inside, saying he will call 911. Jayne S looks out, dialing. TM is screaming, “I’m begging you!” and Fogen finally gets him in a wrist lock and TM throws both hands up and out, screaming, but the motion makes it hard for Fogen to shoot. Fogen says, “you’re gonna die tonight MF” and grabs Trayvon’s hoodie to keep him from fleeing again, then aims and shoots one shot, but Trayvon falls so fast that Fogen gets lurched forward, having not yet let go of the hoodie. He sits on TM’s back and thinks for a minute, and the thought bubble says: “OK, I better make this look like self-defense” and then he gets up, answers questions about his hollowpoint bullet, makes a phone call to let Tim Smith know what went down, and then gets his picture taken by Jon the photog.

        Pretty little cartoon, just as good as any other little cartoon. Prosecution could easily have put that up during the rebuttal closing argument. And as Junior said, a picture is worth a thousand words.

  90. smokeegyrl says:

    I couldn’t resist… I miss this blog. I tried but this was also important for me to post here.

  91. Malisha says:

    I hope the feds grant immunity to Fogen so he can be forced to give them statements about everything that happened from 2005 forward. Don’t lock him up for murder or for hate crime: GRANT HI IMMUNITY and make him TALK. Make him tell everything about who said what to whom and when. AND if he makes an untrue statement to the feds, then prosecute him for making untrue statements to federal agents: FOR THAT YOU GET SERIOUS PRISON TIME in a federal prison where your buddies don’t buy the tricks.

    Make him tell everything. If he’s still able to be prosecuted, he has the Fifth Amendment on his side. If you give him immunity from criminal prosecution, he has no route to avoid being used as a material witness to acts of state government corruption that is punishable by the feds.

  92. Tee says:

    I was reading an article about a a woman that ran to a couples home in DeLand, Fl after being raped. This woman was naked crying, screaming and praying for help. The couple refused to open the door for her but called 911, it took 11 minutes for them to arrive. This is minutes from Sanford, what is wrong in that place, where you can charge a teen for not intervening when a teen girl was under the influence and raped but when adults stand by a watch & listen to a kid being shot to death or a women pleading for a safe place from her rapist are not held to the same standards. Is this crazy as hell or is if just me. How do kids get held responsible for the actions of others but adults get to stand by with there hands behind their backs and claim they feared for their safety so they did nothing but call. Wtf has this world to

    • cielo62 says:

      Tee~ chicken shit pansies, all of them.

      ________________________________

      • Malisha says:

        Cielo, will you translate “chicken shit pansies” for me so I can quote it? I think it was originally written by Homer! :mrgreen:

        • fauxmccoy says:

          ĪŗĪæĻ„ĻŒĻ€ĪæĻ…Ī»Īæ ĻƒĪŗĪ±Ļ„Ī¬ Ļ€Ī±Ī¹Ī“ĪµĻĪ±ĻƒĻ„Ī®Ļ‚

          yes, it was used often in the iliad if i remember correctly, but that was back in my dope smoking thuggish college days

        • cielo62 says:

          Malisha – malakas, all if them. (Very filthy Greek cuss word, so I’m told)

          FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

  93. LBTG says:

    Have you heard of the influence of “Black Twitter”. According to a newstory on CNN, Black Twitter got B37’s book deal killed.

  94. LBTG says:

    Here’s another guy (Mr. Roop) who used SYG in nearby Cape Coral. A door-to-door salesman selling steaks, seafood… was killed. Seven years ago, Roop pointed his gun at a meter reader who was there to read his electric meter.
    http://alawabidingcitizen.blogspot.com/2012/07/man-who-once-pulled-gun-on-meter-reader.html

    I read about Mr. Roop earlier and think of that when going about our business of selling real estate.

    • Olivia says:

      “As Rainey lay on the ground, Roop fired another bullet into the back of his head. Roop told police that he was in fear and thought Rainey was reaching for something and he shot him in the head “for effect.”

      “Roop was found not guilty by a jury.”

      Roop must have paid a jury consultant to stack the jurors in his favor, because surely, a random group of Floridians serving on a jury would have returned a guilty verdict after hearing Roop say that he shot Rainey in the head “for effect”.

    • Tzar says:

      forgive my French but HOLY FUCK!!!

    • groans says:

      That is insane! These juries are NUTS!

      And here I always get the creeps when door-to-door sales people come knocking unexpectedly – it never occurred to me that they might be afraid of ME shooting them. (Of course, it never occurred to me to shoot them, either….)

  95. Olivia says:

    Regarding the Neighborhood Watch sign:

    “We report all suspicious persons and activities to the Sanford Police Department”.

    “Suspicious persons and activities” is so ridiculously subjective.

    Zimmerman’s behavior proves it.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Too bad people at RTL didn’t call on Fogen. It’s my understanding that anyone in the neighborhood constitutes NW, not just the organizers and those officially on the list. We have NW signs in my neighborhood, just an average non-gated open neighborhood in an average US city and I don’t know of any organized NW group here.

      • Olivia says:

        In my state, it is against the motor vehicle law to drive in the dark without headlights on.

        Zimmerman’s driving after dark without headlights put residents at risk of being run over by him, or another vehicle colliding with him.

        A child or adult could easily have walked out in front of his vehicle, not knowing that he was approaching without headlights on.

        Sickening.

    • longtimegeek says:

      The sign should say, “We report all suspicious persons and activities to the Sanford Police Department. Then, we stalk, confront, attack and kill them.”

  96. Olivia says:

    An unfair stacking of jurors because the state of Florida did not hire a “jury consultant” to analyze/predict/pick jurors.

    Maybe states should employ professional jury consultants to pick jurors.

    As it is, defendants who can afford to buy a jury consultant may actually be buying a verdict in their favor.

    Is that all it takes? A high-priced jury consultant to hand-pick the jurors who will render a verdict in your favor?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I don’t think too much of this adversarial form of justice. Justice should arrive when the truth is pinpointed, not because the most vicious, lying side wins.

  97. J4TMinATL says:

    Wannabe cops all over the world can receive immunity in criminal court if they are just told to say, I feared for my life.. that is what you are taught in LE and the academy. We’ve enabled cops to lie on the stand too long.

    Police officers are engraved with the code of brotherhood and silence. The unwritten oath that you don’t go against the brotherhood. This attitude is even more apparent when black officers are forced or choose to ignore racial motivations against their own race by their police brothers.

    FTPopo

    • Olivia says:

      Zimmerman couldn’t get a job working as a cop, but did manage to get for himself an opportunity to pretend he worked in law enforcement.

      Hence, his referring to Trayvon as “the suspect” the night that he murdered him.

      • commenting says:

        Omara said that he is not a wanna be cop because he was offered a car and uniform and he refused it……y wouldn’t he refuse it? He did not want to announce his presence to the suspicious persons……didn’t somone say that he drove at nights with his lights off….but the state could not use that information because they did not bother to depose the witness who said that, so she could be called to the stand in case this information was needed……did money play a part?

        • Olivia says:

          Interesting. So, the state couldn’t tell the jurors that Zimmerman drove with the headlights of his vehicle off at night, because the state did not depose the witness who saw him do it, but O’Marra could tell the jurors that Zimmerman turned down an offer of a car and uniform.

          Which witness said that Zimmerman turned down an offer of a car and uniform?

          Whose the source? Zimmerman? Or, is that just one of O’Marra’s spur of them moment lies?

          • bettykath says:

            The women who briefed the HOW about NW encouraged him to sign up for Citizen whatever. She said fogen declined.

          • Xena says:

            @bettykath.

            The women who briefed the HOW about NW encouraged him to sign up for Citizen whatever. She said fogen declined.

            I just posted on that subject and why GZ declined.

            Why George Zimmerman Turned Down Citizens On Patrol

            Here’s the video that goes along with the article;

          • bettykath says:

            that’s HOA not HOW

          • commenting says:

            Hey I’m not really certain if Bernie could not say that but from the little rules and regulation I learned from watching the trial…I just assumed that

          • Malisha says:

            He declined THAT because he would have to go through a background check. After losing the chance to be LE in Virginia, he knew better than to try that again.

        • THE Shadow says:

          Wait, what?
          He was “offered a car and a uniform”?
          By who? What for?
          Is that a normal procedure in a Neighborhood Watch program?

          • Olivia says:

            Xena, thanks for posting the video. I notice the witness describes Citizens on Patrol somewhat, but didn’t say that Zimmerman was offered a patrol car/uniform.

            Likely, Zimmerman never applied for membership in the group, because he knew that he wouldn’t pass the required background check, as Malisha noted.

            Even if he had a clean background, it’s likely that he wouldn’t want to be restricted to their sensible rules, such as always having 2 in the vehicle, and never getting out of the vehicle to pursue.

            He wouldn’t want to be controlled by Citizens on Patrol.

            O’Marra lied when he told jurors that Zimmerman “turned down” a patrol car equipped with lights and a uniform.

            Such was never offered to him, so he couldn’t have turned it down.

            Did Zimmerman ever even have a conversation with anyone at Citizens on Patrol?

            He may have learned about the patrol car and uniform perks from reading at their website.

            This is another example of O’Marra deceiving jurors, and prosecutors letting him do it.

          • Xena says:

            @Olivia.

            Xena, thanks for posting the video. I notice the witness describes Citizens on Patrol somewhat, but didnā€™t say that Zimmerman was offered a patrol car/uniform.

            The car and uniform come with the program. C.O.P.s don’t only patrol areas for suspicious activity. They also make welfare checks on the sick and elderly, and vacation checks on property. They would need to be clearly identified as Citizens on Patrol in order to perform those responsibilities.

            You are correct — GZ didn’t want to operate under restricted rules, including not carrying a weapon, and certainly not with another person riding with him.

          • ladystclaire says:

            @Olivia, the prosecution didn’t hardly object to a damn thing that the defense was doing which everybody knows is the truth. just look at how they allowed Pest to mistreat Rachel. that bull shit was uncalled for and, they knew it but, they permitted it to continue.

            BTW, I have a sister named Olivia.

    • commenting says:

      And if you’ve made some bad desicions in the past like get into a couple fights or if you have a record then you deserved to be killed….because most people in this country are perfect….you are a violent thug who will attack and kill for any reason if you do not have a perfect past

      • roderick2012 says:

        And if youā€™ve made some bad desicions in the past like get into a couple fights or if you have a record then you deserved to be killed

        What’s worse is that now that O’Mara has a set a precedent in scouring the social media accounts of potential jurors and witnesses I am sure that other defense lawyers will follow in his path.

        That is what worries me about the Jordan Davis case. We already know that the driver of the SUV in which Davis was a passenger was out past his curfew and I am sure that Dunn’s lawyers will use the guilty by association game to label Davis as some type of person who preferred to associate himself with criminals.

        What I don’t understand is why does Florida law allow the defense to use anything and everything to defame a witness unless it’s something directly related to the case.

      • longtimegeek says:

        …especially if you’re dead. Because that’s what good people do, they trample all over dead people’s graves and get their family and friends to do the same. ::sarcasm:: (And, there’s nothing your credible parents, family and friends can do to stop it.)

    • Olivia says:

      “The unwritten oath that you donā€™t go against the brotherhood.”

      Possibly part of the reason Serino was so happy about lying in court.

      Felt that with each lie he was a step closer to being accepted back into the brotherhood.

      • Malisha says:

        He never really stepped out of the corrupt brotherhood. He told Fogen, “I have to answer questions about why you’re not in jail. I have to do that.” He knew he had signed on as Fogen’s advocate right then and there. I fooled myself thinking he was just doing that to get Fogen to come clean to him.

        • Olivia says:

          I understand. His message was “Give me a good story for me to use to justify our not arresting you for murder.”

  98. Olivia says:

    Prosecution didn’t expose the lying Sanford Police Department. Maybe the DOJ will.

  99. PiranhaMom says:

    @Professor Fred,

    Re your statement: “Bernie de la Rionda also should have confronted Singleton for wearing awards on her uniform that she had not earned.”

    1) Singleton was in uniform her first day of testimony. De la Rionda
    commented on her ribbons and she stated she had served in the Army. I would not expect De la Rionda to be familiar with each police and military award.

    2) Which awards were bogus?

    3) How/when did you find out?

    Thanks!

    • fauxmccoy says:

      @Pmom

      i wish i could credit the person who posted this originally, but here goes

      http://guardianofvalor.com/marine-watching-zimmerman-trial-catches-officer-wearing-ribbon-reserved-for-wwii-vets/

      SPD does not even bother to create their own awards, they pick up whatever they want at the surplus store and hand them out to officers.

      shocking, eh?

      • Malisha says:

        So let me get this. SPD is certified by the feds as a law enforcement authority and it hands out fakes as “medals” which it admits it bought in a thrift shop? AND it is illegal to wear them when they were not earned? AND there is a justifiable feeling on the part of the real men and women who REALLY earned them that others are not allowed to just pin them on to denote honor not really earned?

        Remember, Fogen wrote a letter of commendation to Singleton for serving at a PARTY that he was also at, and in that letter told then Chief Billy Lee that Singleton had gone “above and beyond” the call of duty (as if HE would know?) for whatever she did at that party. It’s in the conversation the suck-up had with her after her interview of him and before the voice-stress test. And we’re wondering how the case was screwed up? It was screwed up by the police and the trial was making sure not to point that out or get that into the public record. That is why Singleton and Serino lied. But it does not excuse their lies. They need to be thoroughly investigated and heads need to roll. Then she needs to give back those ribbons. She can go down to the real thrift shop and buy some used pink ribbons to wear in her hair. Even liars are allowed to do that.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          malisha — you’ll have no argument from me that SPD royally screwed the initial investigation and as a result contributed to the acquittal.

          as far as singleton’s ribbons — if that was what her department awarded her, i cannot fault her for not including them on her dress uniform. i have plenty of other things which i can find meaningful fault though.

          on a personal note, i have gotten the impression the last several days that you have been attempting to challenge or find fault with my posts. do you mind clearing that up for me?

          • Malisha says:

            I don’t remember doing that, Faux. What posts did I challenge? In fact I don’t remember disagreeing with any of your posts. Point it out to me and if I did, I’ll carefully examine it because you’re one of the people I most often agree with 100%.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            could just be my interpretation and sensitivity that i do not like to admit publcly, malisha. i’ll take you at your word. thanks.

          • Malisha says:

            Well Faux, you’re on my list of the most respected commenters here. Rarely do I actually “answer” a post when I write, and if I do, I try to address the person in my answer. I can’t remember having an actual adversarial response to anyone except a guy named “Dennis” who seemed to be different personalities. I did feel my feathers ruffled when anybody SEEMED (might just be my oversensitive defenses) to say that Trayvon Martin or someone testifying for him might have done or gotten something wrong, but if so, it would only be a result of my feeling jangle-nerved because of my own feelings that victims always get trampled.

            Anyway if we need to make up I’m glad we are doing it and if I danced on YOUR nerves I am certainly sorry. šŸ˜€

          • cielo62 says:

            Malisha~ Oh I had some fun with that Dennis character! Let’s hear it for the Illuminati!

            ________________________________

          • fauxmccoy says:

            oh yes, that dang illuminati, they’re in on it! the hom-0-secksuals too!! (it was like a bad scooby doo ending, i tells ya!)

          • cielo62 says:

            faux mccoy~ Y’know, I’ve always wondered about that infamous “Gay Agenda.” I must have missed the memo, because I have no idea what it is. Maybe it’s a vow to color coordinate all of America?

            ________________________________

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @cielo

            Maybe itā€™s a vow to color coordinate all of America?

            that and to feng shui all of our corporate environs and public spaces!

          • fauxmccoy says:

            malisha, your first response allayed all concern. i suspect this is a nerve rattling time for any of us. i did want to find out though if i’d done something to upset you in any way because it would never be my intention to do so. then again, it is my firm belief that intentions count for shit and that it is action that is meaningful. i do not even accept ‘but i did not mean to hurt your feelings’ from loved ones.

            we have both spent our time in the trenches as advocates — you for children and me for battered women. we have helped them negotiate the legal process and seen that create even greater despair and further victimization. we understand exactly how the system does not work for the under privedged. i consider you my ally, which why i was concerned enough to ask.

            no hard feelings, honest.

        • Olivia says:

          Serino’s body language gave him away. He was literally squirming in his seat, and SMIRKING.

          His facial contortions were so hideous. It was as though no matter how hard he tried to put on a straight face he couldn’t completely prevent his body from telling what he was really thinking/feeling.

          Notice how he couldn’t keep the corners of his mouth from turning up into a grin (duper’s delight).

        • Mary Davis says:

          @Malisha. “She can go down to the real thrift shop and buy some used pink ribbons to wear in her hair. Even liars are allowed to do that.

          I am ROTFLMBO. I really needed that laugh.

    • J4TMinATL says:

      I first read it at the hole the day she took stand.

  100. degraveegmailcom says:

    There are a lot arguments/debates/written pieces that
    excuse the not guilty verdict and blame the laws or the jury
    instructions.
    But really? What do we know except there was a 2 minute max scuffle of wich the last 40 seconds ended with a gunshot. Trayvon Martin was unarmed and Defendant was armed.
    I MOVED MY HAND, I AIMED AND FIRED.Defendant stated to
    police later that same night.

    SECOND DEGREE MURDER
    To prove the crime of Second Degree Murder, the State must prove the following
    three
    elements
    beyond a reasonable doubt:
    1.
    Trayvon Martin
    is dead. CHECK!
    2.
    The death was caused by the criminal act of
    George Zimmerman CHECK. to kill is a crime right?
    .
    3.
    There was an unlawful killing of
    Trayvon Martin
    by an act imminently dangerous
    to another and demonstrating a depraved mind without regard for human life. CHECK
    An ā€œactā€ incl
    udes a series of related actions arising from and performed pursuant to a
    single design or purpose.
    An act is ā€œimminently dangerous to another and demonstrating a depraved mindā€ if it is
    an act or series of acts that:
    1.
    a person of ordinary judgment would know is reasonably certain to kill or do
    serious bodily injury to another, and CHECK.
    GEORGE ZIMMERMAN WAS ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN THIS ACT WOULD KILL. HE HAS CCW.
    2.
    is done from ill will, hatred, spite or an evil intent, UNPROVABLE
    NOBODY CAN SEE INSIDE HIS HEAD BUT IT WASN’T FROM GOOD WILL RE.TRAYVON IS DEAD. SO CHECK.
    3.
    is of such a nature that the act itself indicates an indifference to human life.CHECK. TRAYVONS LIFE TO BE EXACT
    In order to convict
    of Second Degree Murder, it is not necessary for the State to prove
    George Zimmerman
    had an intent to cause death.GOOD. NEXT!

    POSSESSION OF A FIREARM
    AND DISCHARGE CAUSING DEATH
    If you find that
    George Zimmerman
    committed Second Degree Murder and you also find
    beyond a reasonable doubt that during the commission of the crime, he discharged a firearm,
    and in doing so, caused
    great bodily harm to, or the death ofTrayvon Martin
    , you should find
    George Zimmerman
    guilty of Second Degree Murder with
    discharge of a
    firearm causing
    great
    bodily harm
    or death.
    If you find that
    George Zimmerman
    committed Second Degree Murder, and you also
    find beyond a reasonable doubt that during the commission of the crime, he discharged a
    firearm,CHECK 100% NO DOUBT

    you should find
    George Zimmerman
    guilty of Second Degree Murder
    with
    discharge of
    a firearm.YES?
    If you find that
    George Zimmerman
    committed Second Degree Murder and you also find
    beyond a reasonable doubt that during the commission of the crime, he actually possessed a
    firearm, YES?you should
    find
    George Zimmerman
    guilty of Second Degree Murder
    with
    actual
    possession of a
    firearm.CHECK!
    A ā€œfirearmā€ is legally defined as any weapon which will, is designed to, or may readily be
    converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive.
    To ā€œactu
    ally possessā€ a firearm means that
    George Zimmerman
    (a)
    carried a firearm on his person; CHECK or
    (b)
    had a firearm within immediate physical reach with ready access with the intent
    to use the firearm during the commission of the crime.CHECK.
    STATE DOES NOT HAVE TO PROVE INTENT RIGHT?

    There done. No need to read the rest everything checked for the first charge.

    • J4TMinATL says:

      But the jury found it justified or lawful to kill under the same instructions.

      • degraveegmailcom says:

        How? I just don’t get it.

        • Olivia says:

          I like the idea of requiring jurors to complete a checklist similar to what you posted.

          It could help them focus their time and attention on the relevant facts, rather than, for instance, the attorney’s dramatics played out in opening and closing statements.

          I suspect the jurors for this trial had decided on Saturday that they wanted to make a decision before the court day was over at 10pm.

          From what I understand, they asked for and received permission to deliberate during dinner, so – yeah, I’m pretty certain they wanted to make a decision on Saturday and not be sequestered for another night.

          Late in the day, and the pressure of time constraints could have led to more biased and impulsive decision making, and weakened resolve to not go along with the more dominant juror(s) wishes.

          I wouldn’t want to make such important decisions that late in the day, simply because after a long day my rational/thinking abilities and resistance to persuasion from others is not as strong.

        • Olivia says:

          Remember, they asked Nelson for clarification on manslaughter, didn’t get an answer, but were told they could submit a more specific question for clarification.

          However, they didn’t submit a followup question to Nelson. Did they figure out the answer to their question themselves, couldn’t figure out how to ask a more specific question, or just convinced themselves they didn’t need/want clarification after all?

          I wonder if in a rush to finish by 10 pm they decided to forget about the questions they had and hurry up and make a decision.

          Hadn’t thought about it until now, but the secrecy of this type of jury is about the same as a grand jury.

          • Xena says:

            @Olivia.

            I wonder if in a rush to finish by 10 pm they decided to forget about the questions they had and hurry up and make a decision.

            Apparently, the foreperson did not want to submit a more specific question and refused to do so. Juror B37 told Anderson Cooper what happened after the jury was asked for a more specific question. The foreperson took another vote. One juror sat for 30 minutes before casting her vote. There was no further discussion of evidence. They waited that juror out so she would vote not guilty.

          • Malisha says:

            That is not even deliberation. That’s bullying.

        • J4TMinATL says:

          Because of the instructions on justifiable homicide that didn’t include provocation/aggression directions. Re read the instructions Prof posted.

  101. commenting says:

    I would love for Rachel jeantel to call Steve wilkocks or the mauray show, and ask to haave a polygraph test concerning whether she heard Trayvon say get off……why would u sucker punch a person then tell that person to get off….anyways gz’s testimony is all that is needed to know that no punching of any kind that broke his nose took place at the T

    • degraveegmailcom says:

      Polygraphs are not reliable nor admissable as evidence.
      Do you doubt her? After that 7 hours long interrogation?
      She testified,defendant did not.
      I would love for George Zimmerman to call Steve wilkocks or the mauray show, and ask to have a polygraph test.

      • commenting says:

        Hey, lighten up..the verdict of not guilty has already been reached and there is nothing that can be done about it, so I don’t know why you would bring up anything about poolygraph test not being permissable in court……………………I simple suggest it would be a something she could do seeing that she has been on different interviews after the trial

      • BlueJ says:

        I would love to see Zimmerman integrated for 7 hours. That’s enough time for at least a ozen new stories.

  102. LBTG says:

    Just in case you didn’t see this:
    Rush Limbaugh declares victory after Zimmerman verdict
    Ann Coulter tweeted ā€œHallelujah!ā€ just minutes after Zimmerman was acquitted of second degree murder. Ted Nugent wrote, ā€œThe jury got it right, and non-racist America rejoices.ā€
    http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/07/16/rush-limbaugh-declares-victory-after-zimmerman-verdict/

  103. commenting says:

    Sabrina looks like a tall woman herself…standing next to jayz and Beyonce…jayz don’t look like he is mucher taller than her ir am I being decieved by the picture

  104. commenting says:

    People enough already about Bernie’s lack of objection to the defencequestions, if Bernie had to object to every false statement he would have made a nuisance of himself………….what he could have done was ask better questions, do a better job crross questioning the witnesses and use the reenactment video, and gz’s many recorded statements to disprove every lie that the defence was spoonfeeding the jury………………..spend a little time on the physical altercation that gz described…show that his version of the events made no sense…..he was never sucker punched at the T

  105. Two sides to a story says:

    Sen. John McCain, known to break ranks with fellow GOP lawmakers, urged state legislatures to consider revising ‘Stand Your Ground’ laws in the wake of the George Zimmerman trial.

    Read more: http://nbcnews.to/18wDOVl

  106. commenting says:

    Serino and singleton never turned on the prosecution….they were never on the prosecution’s side…..you all are crazy to believe that they were not going on the stand to defend their decision for refusing to charge gz……do yo all reallybelieve they were going to say gz should have been charged from day 1…do you think they were going to say that they did not believe gz?……………….why was jennar called on the stand in the first place??….Berni stated that she was subject to be recalled when he knew he was done with her..he knew he was done with the worthless questions…………

  107. fauxmccoy says:

    speaking of mixed bags of tricks and the huffpost:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/21/john-mccain-stand-your-ground_n_3631171.html

    john mccain praises obama’s speech (remember that mccain does have an adopted black daughter) AND furthermore says that SYG laws are controversial and should be reviewed.

    there are times when i respect this guy, but that was more so in the past. he will condemn his own party on occasion which i have to admire. ultimately, a mixed bad of tricks in my mind though.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      But if he’s courageous enough to come forward, he may bring other Republicans with him.

      There’s no damn reason that the American public should have laxer rules of engagement with firearms than the US military.

      • cielo62 says:

        Two Sides~ Mccain is a political animal. Maybe he sees the writing on the wall, as it were. You CAN’T EVEN BEGIN to think about inticing minorities to the GOP if you don’t offer something. Repealing or retooling SYG would be a good place to start.

        • Two sides to a story says:

          Agree. The Republican party needs to disengage from the Tea Party as well and McCain knows that too.

          • Mojo says:

            The Tea Party will be the death of the GOP. It already killed the GOP as we once knew it.

    • Girlp says:

      Hi Faux, Mcain’s daughter is from India.Still I agree with you also , the current leadership and a strong tea party in AZ keep him from working with the DEM’s.

    • Sophia33 says:

      Perhaps the nasty tweets he got a few weeks ago when he posted a picture of his son wedding woke him up. His son married a black woman and like any proud father, he posted a tweet of the wedding. The responses he got from the racists were nuts.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        @sophia

        interesting — i did not know that. i know he took a lot of grief in the primary he ran against shrub because of his adopted daughter and it is a subject he is sensitive to. at one point, i had a lot of respect for the man, but it has dwindled over the years and there has always been plenty of stuff where we parted ways philosophically. he remains a very complicated figure, for sure.

  108. Tee says:

    I said it from the begging and I got chewed out here. But every time BDLR opened his I knew that he wasn’t going to be aggressive with the defence. He never pressed them even before the trail began, what he let these witnesses get away with was criminal. I felt just because he called them as state witnesses didnt mean that he couldn’t or shouldn’t impeach them. A lot of people hear had every reason why he couldn’t mpeach his own witness but I knew that if he didn’t we would lose and we did. Guy, should have had first seat for the prosecution, we wouldn’t be here now disappointed & upset. This case was handled wrong from the beginning and it saddens me to know that this is how they value black life.

    • commenting says:

      He didn’t even need to impeach them, he could have simply stated that he was playing certain statements that they made simply to recall their memory….like Jenna laur…he could have replayed what she said during the deposition so that she could remember what she said which was completely different from what she said on the stand

    • commenting says:

      I agree what Bernie did in that courtroom was criminal…..a ten year old child would have done a better job after studying the evidence

    • fauxmccoy says:

      i cannot speak for everyone, but there was a large contingent who felt that BDLR was very aggressive in his pre-trial motions and arguments (including the professor).

      i think this is one of the things that made the whole trial surreal. we did not see what we had come to really like in BDLR. i would say that his passion was evident in his closing arguments, but his thought process disorganized at best. worst of all was his lack of aggression in questioning witnesses and in failing to object to the most obvious of objectionable questions asked by the defense.

      • Deborah Moore says:

        Good Day, Mate!
        I haven’t had much to add today, but I did have this niggling thought. I have been wondering if BDLR was trying to play the Nice Guy vs. the idiotic Bad guy games the Defense was playing. Whatever his game was, it obviously didn’t work.
        Now that we have hindsight, and John Guy has hindsight, to you imagine he may not play the Nice Guy (heh.) with the next case?

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @deborah

          regarding the trial that just ended — all bets are off for me as to what if any strategy was employed. it’s just a head scratcher.

          as far as the upcoming dunn trial, i read over the weekend that the situation has changed and corey is planning to prosecute herself. rumors abound as to why the change, but the predominate one is that she desperately wants a ‘win’ on the heels of this loss.

          • cielo62 says:

            faux mccoy~ so why didn’t she want to “desparately win” in that LAST trial??

          • fauxmccoy says:

            good question. maybe because she was told, maybe because she’s a republican and supports SYG, maybe because she’s got her own snub nosed pistola in her giant handbag with a ccw permit.

            i found her presser after the verdict to be disgusting and disingenuous, just more political positioning.

          • Three people entered the jury room with a guilty vote. The culprit was the jury instructions and the jury selection.

          • Deborah Moore says:

            That’s very interesting.
            Throw your prosecution team to the wolves and then come in and play Clean Up.
            With pink cat glasses?
            With elections coming up, you’d almost think she’s playing Both Sides of the divide.

      • Trained Observer says:

        I think it’s interesting that BDLR with no opportunity (or at least not much) for preparation, reduced to rubble that jerk who accused Tracey of muttering “motherfucker” at him. Yet after more than a year Serino and Singleton got nothing but softball questions.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          interesting observation. yes, that was the bernie we were used to seeing — and expected to see during trial.

          perhaps after depositions of serino and singleton who had both lawyered up, he pretty much knew what he was going to get from them — next to nothing. traditionally, one does not play ‘hardball’ with witnesses they called to the stand although he surely could have been more aggressive. i doubt he could have prevailed at having them declared as ‘hostile witnesses’.

          • pat deadder says:

            fauxmcoy maybe it was the opposite maybe Serino was willing to tell the truth and the prosecution didn’t want him to.He did want fogen charged and god knows he stood alone.He did tell a witness that the person who was screaming was alive but he got that from the ones who had arrived sooner Smith for instance.I think he changed his mind after he heard the tape.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            pat — like so many of the murky facts that surround this investigation and actual events, i doubt we will ever know. your observation seems as valid as a myriad of others, but i have resigned myself to what i see as the very likely probability that we will never know.

        • Two sides to a story says:

          Mercury retrograde.

          • roderick2012 says:

            @ Two sides,

            yes Mercury was retrograde in Pisces ( the sign of lies, deception and confusion) from June 20 until yesterday.

            I am hoping the truth about what happen behind the scenes during this trial begins to emerge once Mercury enters Aries.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            Roderick, I hope so too. I hope that the verdict somehow doesn’t stick because of the retrograde. I think the transit made all the liars lie even more and think they could get away with it. Some of that should turn around and bite them in the butt.

          • groans says:

            Roderick, please tell:
            When WILL Mercury enter Aries?

    • Malisha says:

      Tee, it looks to me like Guy is just a better orator and better actor than BDLR but that ultimately he is just as corrupt. Here is a direct quote from his press conference from after the verdict:

      “We have from the beginning just prayed for the truth to come out, and for peace to be the result and that continues to be our prayers and we believe that has been answered,” prosecutor John Guy said at the press conference.

      So John Guy just wants to make sure there is “peace” — as in, frankly, “Don’t let any of those really disappointed African American gun-owners think that they can kill white people now, and don’t let’s have any violent reactions within the thug community, and let me inject a little religion into this to seal it up for the masses.”

      Remember, John Guy, even if you’re handsome:

      NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE.

      • Deborah Moore says:

        Awww, Malisha. I said once that John Guy was cute, but I wasn’t one of the Groupies, per se, so with that, do you know what John Guy is battling in his heart?
        There seems to be already plenty of Blame to focus on, and I’m wondering why specifically you are claiming to know his intent?
        Just seems like pushing it a little too much to make your point.
        I thought that both Guy and Mantei were really shook by the verdict.

        • Two sides to a story says:

          They looked really shook to me.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @deborah
            @twosides

            They looked really shook to me.

            same here. i noticed when the jury had their question submitted to the court, that guy sat at the prosecution table looking especially anguished. i did not take that as bad acting.

        • pat deadder says:

          I think Guy was in on it.He never raised his head once during the trial.He and BDLR never showed any rapport to each other.They both knew maybe not Mantai.

      • Olivia says:

        Malisha,

        In addition to saying that they prayed for “peace to be the result”, he said that they prayed for “the truth to come out”.

        “We have from the beginning just prayed for the truth to come out . . . and we believe that has been answered.”

        • cielo62 says:

          Olivia~ Wat good is truth if there is no accountability? No justice in the end?

          ________________________________

          • Two sides to a story says:

            Because it takes more than this one conviction to clean up racism, SYG laws, and anything else that will come out of the furor that the dicey verdict created. This may indeed be God’s Plan that Fogen conjured up unwittingly.

          • cielo62 says:

            Two Sides~ I was thinking something along those lines, something that is the catalyst for the Big Picture Change. Trayvon Martin’s case has ignited something deep in this country. That asshole gz got away, BUT it seems many many people are speaking out about their fears: fear to walk alone, fear that SYG can let any deranged scum get away with murder, fear that minority children, not just black ones, will increasingly become targets of racist hatred. We are feeling merely the rumblings of a larger explosion waiting to come. AC and the state of Florida thought a token gesture would calm the volcano. They thought wrong.

            ________________________________

          • Two sides to a story says:

            I agree, Cielo. The mountains really are trembling.

        • Malisha says:

          Then John Guy now believes that Fogen was not guilty of even manslaughter. Shame on him and let him live in a world where somebody can target, chase down and murder a kid and then be not guilty of any crime. I DON’T THINK that world is a good world to live in.

      • J4TMinATL says:

        I think it’s just how it reads. The words read more appropriate if jury came back with guilty verdict. When he said the words, I hear defeat and that he did the best that he could under whatever conditions if any he had.

      • truthseeker66 says:

        I interpreted it the same way.

      • longtimegeek says:

        I’ll just say this. I was confused by John Guy’s words when I heard them. Parsing his words, he said, “We have from the beginning just prayed for the truth to come out… and that continues to be our prayers and we believe that has been answered.” The prayers for the truth to come out have been answered? In the context of a press conference about the verdict? The obvious implication is that the truth is a not guilty verdict. So, I didn’t like these words.

        Parsing his words again, he said, “We have from the beginning just prayed… for peace to be the result and that continues to be our prayers and we believe that has been answered.” The prayers for peace have been answered? In the context of a press conference about the verdict? The verdict empowered murderers to kill and get away with it by lying about self defense. I’m not sure how this relates to peace.

        Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin are leading a peaceful protest movement. But, they can’t control everyone. As far as future, empowered murderers, who knows how people will respond? It is scary. It isn’t like Casey Anthony, in which she killed someone close to her and many people close to her would likely have many opportunities to predict a future potential killing and prevent it. GZ killed a stranger, and no one close to Trayvon Benjamin Martin stood a chance of preventing it. GZ is accustomed to being the a**hole who always gets away. If he tries to kill again, his victim and those close to him won’t stand a chance of preventing it.

        In contrast to John Guy, there was no mistaking Richard Mantei’s statement during the press conference. His statement was great.

      • groans says:

        From John Guy’s mouth:

        We have from the beginning just prayed for the truth to come out, and for peace to be the result and that continues to be our prayers and we believe that has been answered….

        Geez. That says it all right there.

        1. The word “just” may be more telling than we could have fathomed and some people are willing to accept. Maybe “from the beginning” the prosecutors really DID just pray for truth and peace to happen, rather than develop a trial strategy that had half a chance of achieving a criminal conviction. (I’ve never heard of a trial lawyer who doesn’t know that its HIS JOB to bring out the truth!)

        2. He believes their prayers have been answered. Therefore, he believes that the truth DID come out. (As reflected how, exactly, John? By the verdict?!)

        OK – technically he’s a little bit correct on #2. Some truth did come out. But, it was DROWNED OUT by badgering of witnesses, half-truths, lies, irrelevant / improper testimony, defense counsel “testimony,” surprise witnesses (I think), and other rather constant objectionable conduct – while the prosecutors SAT ON THEIR BUTTS, allowing it to happen.

        (Meanwhile, I was shouting at my monitor screen … and praying for a dang miracle!)

  109. Danita says:

    I have many questions as to how the pros dropped the ball, but I was wondering why they interviewed at the beginning the person who talked about the phone records and calling times but never gave any evidence as to who foggen was speaking to at the time after the shooting. Also when they had the video expert who viewed the video of the clubhouse but nothing came out of that. What was the purpose, the pros gave such a hazy view. They stayed away from race but they let the defense play an animation of what happen. What about what Taffee said when he spoke about the one juror who needed to come on board how did he know that information.But my biggest thought is why did’nt Angela Cory herself try the case, they called for her and she sat in the audience. There is no doubt this was a miscarriage of justice. There are so many hit and misses.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I think there was such an outcry against AC when she took over the case that she decided to stay in the background.

    • groans says:

      I was wondering why they interviewed at the beginning the person who talked about the phone records and calling times but never gave any evidence as to who foggen was speaking to at the time after the shooting.

      That one bothers me, too.
      Same with the CCTV clips.

  110. LBTG says:

    Regarding suggestions for SYG law – I’d like to see something where SYG applies as part of Castle Doctrine. It’s a natural extension to use SYG if you’re an employee in a store that is being robbed. However, the store scenario has occurred and the employee fired for putting customers at risk (states unknown).

    I’d like to see that the aggressor is the one who follows outdoors in a public or common area. The follower does not get SYG protection for following someone outdoors.

    Who follows someone – a thug, robber, kidnapper, a person up to no good, or snoopy conservatives who view strangers as potential thugs and terrorists. There are also cases of surveillance like a hired detective or police – but their object is to view and gather evidence / data.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      @mimi

      interesting article — but it does make some factual errors. the one that jumped out at me was the suggestion that the prosecution request a change of venue.

      it is unusual for the prosecution to request such and rarer still that it be granted. change of venue is the defendant’s constitutional right (6th amendment) for ensuring a fair trial to the defendant.

      if the prosecution were to request such a change of venue in this case, the defense would have objected strenuously and would likely prevail.

      • Malisha says:

        There was no law that wold permit a change of venue for the prosecution. It is not allowed, period. A crime must be prosecuted where it was committed.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          yes, i am aware. however, it is attempted on occasion – i am not aware of any trial where it was granted.

  111. dianetrotter says:

    My God, professor! Your commentary is soooo needed. Can we get this to a place for the DOJ to read. I am discouraged listening to pundits. They are saying the DOJ isn’t going to do anything. May it never be!

  112. Olivia says:

    I recall one day of the trial when video panned to Angela Corey, who was wearing pink colored cat-eye glasses. She was holding a tube of lipstick and moving it across her upper and lower lips.

    Sorry, but the “fun” pink glasses and applying lipstick to lips that already had a thick layer of lipstick had me wondering about her priorities.

    I get that she wanted to look attractive for the cameras, but come-on – a prosecutor who wears PINK CAT-EYED GLASSES and sits applying another layer of lipstick in the courtroom during a murder trial?

    What sort of mood do you have to be in to wear fun, pink, party-style glasses to a murder trial?

    Sheesh – she didn’t even look like she was playing the role of a serious prosecutor.

    Was she?

  113. Susan Moore says:

    Excellent article. While we watched the trial, we discussed how we had never before seen police officers being hostile witnesses to the state.

  114. colin black says:

    Sometimes you cannot see the T or Tree for the Forrest.

    So listen up America time for a truth to be told.

    This is not my opinion this is fact.

    The accussed was not protected he had no money no conections .Other than those he pesteres an ass sucked with in Sanford P D as an over zealous police wannabe /groupie.

    An eejits like that are a dime a dozen an hold NO SWAY..If anything they are tolerated an looked on with disdain.
    Likewise the defendants Family had no real conections no power to cover up a crime of this magnitude .

    And make it go away a D U I for sure an a fraccass with an under cover L E underage certainly.Those are minor infractions an no great in hopuse connections are nessesery to make them go phoof.

    No protection from the great ann good was nessessery for foggage to walk..

    Walk not once not twice but thrice not even rockstars or elite athletes an track stars have that sort of clout or money or connections to make a MURDER disappear into thin air.

    Theres only one thing an one inanimate object at times an when animate its very very LOUD an POWERFULL that has that type of POWER an INFLUENCE TO HOLD SWAY IN AMERICA.

    Theres only oine thing that can get away with silanceing a CHILDS SCREAMS for mercy for life .

    The only thing with enough ingrained power into the phyce an d n a of MERICA to silence any critic to excuse cold blooded murder.

    A GUNĀ¬!

    Your Country was born from the barallel of a gun.
    It bore down its bore an produced a bloodthirsty nation obbbsesed with violence at the point of a gun.

    Guns beat bow and arrows we win to live in Sin.
    Your decendants used the gun to pacify the INdian problem+ physical genoside accompanied by cultural genoside ongoing

    First germ warfare with small pox blankets an today you give them Cainos money riches drugs ect to destoy there culture from the first bottle of fire water you knew what was going to happen.

    Inndian problem solved you turned on us the British the Crown your parents your forebears an at the Barrell of a GUN.
    You ran us out of town.

    No more enemys to fight you commenced to slaughter each other in the bloodest civil war ever seen .

    If ever there was a Nation that should have could have become weary of the GUN it is America.

    But no the opposite has happened.
    You use some scrap of legistlation written over two hundrend or so years ago.

    When minute men militia were nessesery to back up regular troops dureing the war of Independence?

    Where in your constitution allowed each an every citizen the right to bear arms.

    And Instead of revokeing such a ludicrous an dangerous law .
    When it was no longer nessesssery got the old rubber out or tippex an re written the ammerndment that allowed anyone to own a leathal weapon.

    Oh no you engraved that sucker in Stone made sure nut jobs like Charlton Heston an my cold dead hands brigade held sway.

    Geez most of those hillybilly red neck types are so dumb you could have told them after WW2 that the right to bear ARMS.

    Ment they could wear wife beating vests an they would’ve believed it.

    But the truth is you don’t want to theres no such thing as a respponceable gun owner unless your a back wood man or woman type.

    A responcable gun owner whom has a gun for protection would not need a gun for protection if said gun did not exist.
    Aresponcable gun owner gets robbed an shot because the iresponcable gun owner is ruthless prepared an has a gun.

    An now he has even more guns wich he will sell to even more iresponcable gun owners.

    Now if thoses guns were decommisiones an part of a steel frame or railroad track.

    They couldn’t hurt anyone.

    So responable gun owner stock reply.

    But but we need guns criminals will always get guns blah blah blah.

    Well they cant get them if they don’t friggin exist .
    If current supplys are smelted an new are no longer made
    And sure at first criminals will have accses but as stocks diminish the prices will go up an up an up .

    An why not stop making ammo also solves the problem.
    Cant drive a car with out petrol or gas.

    Without ammo a guns a paper weight

    Theres so many easy practical solutions to your murder gun crime endemic

    But as I say you don’t care they gun holds sway .

    AND NOT THE LIKES OF TRAY.

    The gun was protected the night at the T an every one in the world can see.

  115. fauxmccoy says:

    ok — thoughts on the article

    — we knew from the beginning that SPD was corrupt and inept. i was shocked though at singleton and serino testimony. never have i seen investigators not side with the prosecution wholeheartedly. there are probably a number of factors that contributed such as the personal need for job security, pressure from superiors, resentment toward ‘outsiders’ moving into their ‘territory’. i don’t know how the prosecution could have attacked their testimony without calling into question the integrity of all evidence from the initial investigation and that would in effect be acting as counsel for the defense by elevating reasonable doubt.

    — we knew from the beginning that SAO wolfinger’s office was inept and corrupt, so expecting anything resembling justice from that source would be naive.

    — judge nelson — overall, i considered her to be fair, but more especially in pre trial hearings. i will not speculate on any corruption there but will go so far as to say that i am opposed to the election of judges because this does bring into question whether rulings are based on the politics of reelection and we know what racist enclaves exist within her jurisdiction.

    — SAO Angela Corey is a mixed bag of tricks. the things she chooses to prosecute and how she prosecutes some i flat out disagree with her tactics. i felt that BDLR, mantei and guy did great in pre trial hearings. their case in chief, as directed by BDLR and likely corey, fell apart at the seams. i did perceive mantei and guy as committed and focused during the trial, much less so with BDLR. come trial, bernie just seemed to be ‘phoning it in’. bottom line is that even if they lost this case, they have nothing to lose, politically. it is not their district. corey is nothing but a political animal. it is interesting to note that she has now chosen to prosecute jordan davis’ killer personally (found this in a recent jacksonville article). i shall be watching closely.

    — the jury — i strongly oppose the 6 member jury, it is way too easy to stack such a jury to ensure a desired outcome. i never wanted B37 on the jury anyway because she referred to peaceful protests as ‘riots’, thus displaying her ignorance and bias from the beginning. i question her apparent eagerness to be on the jury and neglect the menagerie of animals she had adopted. what corporate attorney husband actually has time to attend to such? i also question her knowledge of pre trial publicity. i thoroughly detest her eagerness to get her story out and question how she got a literary agent in such a brief amount of time.

    — jury sequestration as ordered by judge nelson and enforced by county sheriff’s office. i see somewhat less corruption within the sheriff’s office than i do with SPD, but that may not be saying much. i was aware of the conditions of the sequestration (with the exception of unsupervised family visits on weekends). i was not opposed to supervised outings planned because failure to provide such would be the equivalent of jail time in my mind. jury service of this length is a burden on anyone, sequestration even more so. unsupervised family visitation i do see as a huge problem in this case, as perfectly illustrated by B37.

    – – – – – – – – – – –
    expectations going forward

    — i expect that the DoJ will investigate the violation of martin’s civil rights. i am less sure that charges will be brought or that a conviction will be reached. take a look at this link of federal court jurisdiction for florida and judge for yourself.

    http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/35964997

    in the case of hate crimes against matthew sheperd, trial was held in the 9th circuit in san francisco and the crime was particularly heinous. will the 11th circuit be as open minded? i have my doubts.

    — DoJ investigation into SPD — from what i have read, this has already been asked for and completed. result was officer retraining and some officers reassigned. i do not expect much more, sadly.

    – – – – –
    where i do see potential for change

    DoJ investigation of florida’s SYG laws and how they are applied with racial discrimination. there is strong evidence to indicate that when the victim is black and the shooter is white, that SYG prevails. equally strong is evidence that when the shooter is black that SYG does not apply.

    this is where i see the strongest possible case — the United States vs. State of Florida.

    sadly, at this point, i do expect that gz will escape justice, but i will hold out hope that change is possible and that Trayvon Martin’s icon status will lead the way.

  116. ay2z says:

    Aussie, was just going to post this, and caught your comment, yeah, ignorant is too nice a word for that sludge dweller.

    Another international story, not giving up focus by our national news source.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/07/20/trayvon-martin-rallies.html

  117. Sophia33 says:

    Good morning everyone!

    I needed to take a from HP and I recently went back. It has turned into a KKK meeting. What the heck is going on? Too many bigots to fight.

    • commenting says:

      Have you ever read the comments on yahoo….any article that involves a black person…..it could be about a 6 year old child

      • Mojo says:

        I used to comment and argue with the Zidiots on Yahoo all the time. I still post on there occasionally. It seems like everyone is a Zidiot there. I get nothing but thumbs down and name calling for any pro-Trayvon/anti-Zipperhead remarks I make. It’s like driving into a brick wall over and over. It’s to no avail and I just can’t bear to read their comments anymore, especially since the verdict. They’ve been even more foul since their hero was exonerated

    • fauxmccoy says:

      sophia — it’s a hell hole and not worth your time. i mourn for this loss, i used to love it and the connections i made there. i basically left a year ago for the reasons you state. if i visit at all, i read just articles and pretty much pass on the comments. it is not worth the loss of my peace of mind.

      sad, that arianna sold out to AOL, which is when the tide changed.

      • Sophia33 says:

        I came over here asking for help. We can’t let them have HP. We can’t!

        It literally looks like the Klan has taken over.

        I actually had someone tell me in response to me telling them that they needed to learn to love that they “love all white people”.

        What the heck is going on in this country?

        • ” actually had someone tell me in response to me telling them that they needed to learn to love that they ā€œlove all white peopleā€.

          What the heck is going on in this country?”

          How long have you studied white supremacy? It’s going down. But it’s going down kicking and screaming.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          sophia — i would submit that walking away is the wisest choice. the site generates money from ad revenues based on story clicks. if their revenue decreases by decent people walking away, that is a good thing. those who know me here from my HP days know how hard i fought the racist infiltration on the Trayvon Martin threads. there is no ‘winning’ with them. i honestly think the best recourse is to not engage and therefore contribute to loss of income for the site.

          • looneydoone says:

            faux,
            I went even further. Closed my several year old account, and sent eh oh hell huff-pfft an e-mail enumerating my reason(s) for doing so. I noticed tens of thousands of long time members have been replaced by socks and new members who’ve signed up in the past couple of months.

          • Sophia33 says:

            Faux:

            You may be right.

            Well I may be joining you and looneydoone – SOON! This is ridiculous. I know looneydoone from HP so this must be a recent development for you. I hate to see you go.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            i was heavily involved at the breaking of the martin story, HP was one of the first places to make it a big damn deal, which i did appreciate.

            soon thereafter, the site became overrun with hot and cold running bigots that had never been there before. the timing also coincided to some extent with the sell out to AOL.

            what i miss is meaningful conversation with folks that i admired and respected. that is gone. i gave up on it last year sometime, with the exception of the occasional smartass comment.

        • Malisha says:

          Check out what was going on in Germany in 1933.

        • dianetrotter says:

          Sophia I have written articles for Hubpages for 1 year. Yesterday I posted an article on the trial and the hatemongers came out. What was shocking was the response from white people I have made friends with over the year. One guy says “Don’t blame me or white people.” I didn’t mention his name or even say white people. I asked a question, “If it wasn’t racism, what was it?” The title sparked anger. They didn’t even read the article.

          • cielo62 says:

            dianetrotter~ of course it was racism. I’m white, and I can SAY it and I can SEE it, and I can DENOUNCE it. I’d say that person has more serious issues than just your article.

            ________________________________

    • Two sides to a story says:

      They’re feeling empowered since the verdict!

    • Boyd says:

      Most Blogs (or whatever you want to call them) are loaded with bigots and a few racists. They will rise from gutter sites like chimpout.com to vent their hate. And Do not let them know who you are.

      Stay away from them, they are a minority. Based on the opinion of Blogs Romney would have won by 60% last November.

      It’s why I come here.

  118. aussie says:

    IGNORANCE WARNING:

    this one not only lives under a bridge, he must live under a rock under the bridge. Talk about well informed opinion. From Los Angeles Times yesterday


    homedog at 9:12 AM July 21, 2013

    Nobody in power pays any attention to these civil rights rallies. Give’em a few weeks and they’ll find something else to complain about. I found it a little disturbing that Obama would wade in sooo soon after it happened. Can you say FOOT IN MOUTH. How would he know that Trayvon wasn’t just a hooligan. For a President to weigh in on these kinds of things BEFORE the facts come out is just WRONG.

  119. My Forehead Tho says:

    Everything was spot on except this:

    “Only a white racist fixated on young black males who gets a thrill out of watching movies about mean and vicious black gangstas believing that they represent real people would even be capable of making up such a ridiculous story.”

    It was racist of all races who believed his fairy tale not just the white ones.

    • MDH says:

      Good point.

      A Jamaican friend was at my home last night telling me that Lee Elder stated that the whites who support Trayvon live in gated communities and don’t have to deal with thugs like Trayvon.

      We agreed that what Mr Elder said was beyond stupid.

      • longtimegeek says:

        This video is classic:

        • longtimegeek says:

          I’m sorry. This isn’t the whole video. Here’s the whole video.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            LE is quite a stinker. Lots of people were concerned about the shooting case in Tucson and how long it took to arrest the shooter, but TPD isn’t nearly as corrupt as SPD and likely that shooter will be convicted. TM got lots of attention because of all the corrupt conditions in FL.

          • MDH says:

            I have a lot of empathy for Rachael.

            My mother was deaf, an expert lip reader, but did not do sign language. Sadly, the way a deaf person speaks (It was well portrayed in “There Will Be Blood”) led shitballs like Elder to make snide remarks about her intelligence. Some would even ask me if she was “mental”. To which I would reply “only till we watch Jeopardy together”. I used to be her interpreter when we went shopping.

            Cruel mocking of peoples flaws, perceived or real, seems to be another badge of conservative honor.

            And Trayvon did not make fun of Rachael. What a great guy.

          • Nellie Nell says:

            Larry Elder is one ignorant person.

          • Girlp says:

            Whatever they had Zimmerman on during the trial they need to give it to Elder….this man should not be on TV as a matter of fact he should go hide in a cave. Piers attempted to explalin Rachel’s health problems and that her intelligence level is normal, she speaks 3 languages….Larry elder speaks one Manic.

        • MDH says:

          Good grief, Larry is more of a dumb ass than my friend let on. This guy does not know that there are black people from other parts of the world who can speak multiple languages.

          There is a great Senegalese film about the repatriation of West Africans by France after WW2. In this movie, the Americans arrest some Senegalese soldiers who they thought were in the white part of Dakar. So the other Senegalese soldiers kidnap an American. During negotiations, a white French officer uses a Senegalese corporal to communicate with the American officer.
          In passing, the American tells the white French man that “he is amazed at how well the he trained the Senegalese man to speak French”. After the American leaves, the Senegalese man remarks “doesn’t this dumb ass know that French is our national language?”

          Conservatives think being the epitome of a monolingual ugly American is some sort of badge of honor.

          My wife speaks French, Wolof and English.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            THose lovely English only conservatives. Their little brains would explode if they lived in S. Cali and received state and county mail in English, Spanish, Vietnamese, and Arabic.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            twosides says

            THose lovely English only conservatives.

            i have a fun little game i like to play with them called ‘get to know your constitutional amendments!’ and we start with #1. i have the right to say whatever i want in whatever language pleases me, what say you?

            it’s really amusing to back them into a corner and argue against the first amendment, try it sometime šŸ™‚

            (as stated previously, i will argue just for the fun of it and it’s generally not pretty.)

          • cielo62 says:

            faux mccoy~ well you have the RIGHT to say whatever you want in whatever language you want and the FEDERAL government can’t arrest you, BUT you CAN get fired, defriended and otherwise blackballed for your words. Right? Saying what you want does NOT protect you from the consequences.

            ________________________________

          • fauxmccoy says:

            yes, of course, cielo. that is just my starting line. it is a carefully crafted game of mental chess that i play until i have some rabid constitutionalists arguing against the first amendment. as i say, i do this just for my own personal entertainment.

          • cielo62 says:

            faux mccoy~ bait them til they bite, huh? I always cringe when some moron on the radio or online says they have “1st Amendment Rights” never realizing that that right is ONLY protection from the government. Your boss can still fire you for saying stupid, offensive shit.Ā 

            ________________________________

          • fauxmccoy says:

            oh yes, i love that as well. people will bring the same argument here or huff post, not even realizing that a private company or blog owner has the right to boot anybody they wish. it’s a fools errand, indeed!

          • cielo62 says:

            MDH~ “The Ugly American” is a stereotype for a reason, I’m afraid. The last time I went to the Middle East, I spoke more Spanish than English, under the guise of being Latin American. Which I AM, by heritage. Americans get targeted for all kids of scams and outright violence.

            ________________________________

        • Rachael says:

          What an IDIOT!!

        • Sophia33 says:

          Larry Elder has some emotional issues.

        • Girlp says:

          Larry has some serious issue’s fear how he is viewed based on others. Larry needs to shut up he is racist yes racist when it comes to his own.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Ridiculous. I live in an 80% non-white neighborhood with plenty of crime.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Nuts. I don’t live in a gated community.

      • crazy1946 says:

        Now time out! I live in a gated community consisting of myself and my (white) German Shepard, the gate is 12 foot wide and it is attached to barbed wire fence. The purpose of my gated community is not to keep thugs out but to keep my thuggish cows in! Now I must admit that sometimes my four legged child is a bit of a thug, especially when he thinks he is being ignored, but because he is a child I let him get away with his thuggish behavior…….. šŸ˜‰

        • longtimegeek says:

          Just make sure GZ doesn’t enter your gated community! It sounds like he would have a lot of targets. Cows are black/white, which means they are black to GZ. Be especially on the lookout for your calves, if you have any. Your white German Shepherd, who I’m assuming is your four legged child, is safe, because GZ identifies with non-black/brown thugs. šŸ™‚

          • crazy1946 says:

            The Fogdoit would have a real problem with my four legged child because while he is just a baby to me, he is not a racial bigot because he hates every body equally! Because the Fogdoit is such a coward he would not make it far on my little rock, the cows have two not so friendly guard donkey’s as companions and they don’t like strangers and can actually be rather aggressive. Hmmm, maybe I could have him over for lunch, naw he would cause my four legged child to suffer from indigestion,… šŸ˜‰

          • cielo62 says:

            crazy~ Aint NEVER visitin’ YOUR rock! Sounds dangerous! And I’m very good with animals!

            ________________________________

        • camanokat says:

          Sounds like my place,, but we just have a pack of dogs and the only “fence” consists of blackberry brambles.

  120. Two sides to a story says:

    Has anyone seen an international petition on AVAAZ regarding encouraging the DOJ to investigate the case?

    While DOJ works for the American people, there has been strong international interest in the case and AVAAZ has a great deal of success with pressuring agencies on various issues.

    I’d like to see a petition on AVAAZ but think it should be started by someone with strong knowledge of international relations and strong writing skills, perhaps an attorney or other legal beagle.

    https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/start_a_petition/?cl=3099203463&v=27335

  121. LBTG says:

    A Letter to the Editor in our local paper (The Sun) wrote the following:
    Real police work and deadly force

    Editor:
    I am a retired police officer with 27 years on the job in a town that was mostly a high-crime area.

    I have conducted thousands of suspicious-person stops that did not result in an arrest. None of these stops resulted in any physical confrontation. Additionally, I have made over 2,000 arrests. Some of these arrests resulted in some sort of physical confrontation. There were some of these confrontations, before the suspect was subdued, that had me thinking my time on this earth might be up. Several times I had to visit the hospital after it was all over for some stitches or treatment of some sort.

    Naturally, being a sworn police office with a badge and a gun, everyone I approached knew this. Only one time during all these situations did I feel it necessary to pull out my gun and shoot at anyone. On that occasion, as I approached a suspect wanted on drug charges, he pulled out a revolver and fired at me.

    That’s one time in over 2,000 arrest, and an equal amount of other probable-cause, suspicious-person stops.

    Do you think Mr. Zimmerman would have approached Trayvon Martin, after being told specifically by the police dispatcher not to, if he didn’t have a gun in his pocket?

    Ask any doctor you know if the scratches on Mr. Zimmerman’s head were serious wounds. This not-guilty verdict causes people around the country to look at us in Florida as a bunch of “racist crackers..”

    xxxxx xxxxxxxx
    Port Charlotte

    • commenting says:

      U’re forgetting that gz claimed, he only remembered he had a gun when Trayvon reached for it…

      • Two sides to a story says:

        BS. He probably stuck that gun in his pants just moments before leaving the house.

        • Trained Observer says:

          If he’s not careful, someone someday may stick a gun just like it up his ass.

          Fogen would do well to eschew a victory lap with the right-wing media and leave the country pronto.

      • MDH says:

        GZ also claimed he was struck 20 to 30 time in the face.

        GZ also claimed not to know anything about SYG laws.

        GZ also stated that he never went any place, but work, without his gun.

        • pat deadder says:

          I can’t stop analyzing this trial.I’m wondering when the fix started because BDLR seemed straight in that pre trial when he said Serino had originally wanted him charged wih murder2 then tried to get manslaughter still no go.Wasn’t AC forced to take this case maybe she is good friends of Wolfinger.

    • MDH says:

      Bravo.

      Conservatives are supposed to be so macho and tough. Rather than even waste my breath with a Zimmerbot, I just tell them their hero is a proven wimp and coward, and walk away.

    • groans says:

      Glad to see this. H/T to the author!
      Thanks.

  122. racerrodig says:

    Incredible…….This may be your best blog yet…certainly your strongest.

    “I wrote an article in which I stated that anyone who believed George Zimmerman’s story was necessarily a racist.”

    Yes you did and I can quote you…..

    “Anyone who supports him is a racist….anyone who donates to his defense fund is a stupid racist”

  123. Jasmine says:

    This verdict means that if someone is following you, it isn’t a crime but don’t most crimes start with something as ‘harmless’ as following? It sickens me that we have gone back to the time when a white person can follow and question a Black person and they have to, HAVE to stand there and be questioned. If you try to get away they can grab you and restrain you. We have no recourse. Unless you are living in New York it is illegal for even the police to stop you without just cause, at least that is what I had previously thought. As I have said before it is annoying to be followed in the store. And if people keep coming up to me asking ‘if there was something that I need help with’ I would leave but now I and every other Black person can now be stopped by anyone and questioned on the street. That is just wrong. I thought that we were all equal under the law. I guess that just went out the window. From the moment Fogen spotted Trayvon, his civil liberties went out the window and for it to be condoned and hailed as ‘the right thing to do’ just turns my stomach.

  124. ladystclaire says:

    @Professor, good morning and I hope all is well with you and Crane reading your article, is there any way that you and maybe some more of your attorney friends, can contact the U.S.A.G and, give them this info? this murderer does not deserve to get away with killing this child. now I know why Judge Nelson refused to put a gag order in place.

    This entire trial was fixed and, not only was the SPD corrupt the prosecutors and the judge was too. he killed a child and, he now has his freedom to go out and do it again. I have “NEVER” seen a trial like this before in my life. there were times when the state should have been objecting but, they just sat there and said nothing. case in point was how they didn’t intervene on behalf of Rachel when Pest had her on the stand for hours.

    Something needs to be done about this and if it leads back to corruption by Angela Corey’s office, then so be it. she prosecuted an AA woman for firing a warning shot into a wall in her home and, no one was hurt or killed and now she is locked up for twenty years. here we have a “MANIAC” running around playing rent a cop even though he was not being paid, he was running around the neighborhood with that gun doing NW. he is now free to do it again.

    This is a slap in the face of the victim Trayvon Benjamin Martin as well as his family. in fact this is a slap in the face of every AA in this country as well.

    • Malisha says:

      Slap in the face to every AA in this country AND every right-thinking non-racist white, as well. The decision ONLY panders to racists.

      • pat deadder says:

        Malisha Slap in thr face to every AA.The sad part is the racists know he is guilty but they don’t care.

    • pat deadder says:

      LadyStClaire This is a slap in the face of every AA yes but it is a slap in the face of every decent human being but it is a life and death verdict for every AA.

  125. Trained Observer says:

    If Florida’s judicial system can’t deliver justice for Trayvon, then the state should be punished with a big gun: Tourism.

    Meeting and event planners, if you can’t avoid Florida altogether, at least steer clear of Seminole where jurors live and Orange, where O’Mara and West practice.

    Florida vacationers, go somewhere else.

    Heart set on a trip to Disney World? Cancel it, and be sure to let Disney’s investor relations department know why.

    Gov. Rick Scott has a long history in business fraud . Vote him out of office and let him know the tap dance he apparently orchestrated with Corey to protect Wolfinger and the SPD won’t wash in the voting booth.

    Until the Department of Justice brings federal charges against Fogen, the entire state needs to be shunned. Those of us living within the state will need to pay the price.

    I want Fogen and his entire family out of the state, and ideally out of the country. Economic and social shunning sanctions may be the only way to legally get rid of this trash, and I recommend we work toward that.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      i suspect rick scott, demon that he is, will have serious competition at the polls come re-election. charlie crist has changed his party affiliation to democratic and will fare much better than running as an independent. that is also our best chance at a gubernatorial (fave word) pardon for marissa alexander.

      my husband floated an interesting idea the other day. he said that when sybrina fulton is up to it, she would make an incredible addition to florida state legislature. she has the education, work experience and personal attributes as well as experience that would make her an outstanding candidate, should she choose.

      the florida legislature is where change must begin, sadly it is dominated by racist backwater communities just like sanford. it will be a long time coming, but we’ve gotta start somewhere.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Faux — Crist has never been one of my faves (he was way too chummy with lawyer/fraudster Scott Rothstein, Broward’s all-time scam artist extraordinaire), but I’ll support him against Scott any day.

        As for your husband’s idea for Sybrina — brilliant. That would be an ideal platform for her to spearhead repeal or revision of SYG.

        • Malisha says:

          Crist is a liar and a horrible dreadful disgusting person. As is Scott. Florida has never had better people than it deserves, all told.

      • racerrodig says:

        If it helps, can I use someones address in FL. vote as needed and then go back to NJ…..hey, any port in a storm.

    • Rachael says:

      “If Floridaā€™s judicial system canā€™t deliver justice for Trayvon, then the state should be punished with a big gun: Tourism.”

      Sorry – I ain’t waiting. They had their chance. I’m starting now.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Rachael — Fine with me. Not only do we need to redirect our money (something even dufus racists understand), but we need to tell people why.

        • Rachael says:

          Oh, no problem here with that. There are 2 organizations I know of that do a tour of the east cost, ending with Disney World for the kids. Explanatory letters have already gone out.

    • pat deadder says:

      TO sanctions on Florida I can’t tell you how many of my customers say they are gong to Florida even when it is 35 degrees celius here around 90 degrees F I think.I learned in F so not sure.I say why why.and they all love it.Only my best friends cancelled their Sept trip.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        pat — you can tell them it is just as warm in northern california, without the humidity but with a fraction of the people, gorgeous scenery and all the citrus anyone could want.

        • camanokat says:

          Chico, Mendocino, Humboldt, yes!

        • pat deadder says:

          fauxmcoy It’s a lost cause Florida offers really great deals from the Province I’m from apparently even cheaper than Cuba.I mean get this a black customer yesterday told me her son is in Florida.I said wow after what that asshole did to Trayvon Martin.I mean he got away with murder.She knew all about the case.I said don’t you think he could have taken a stand and gone elsewhere.I just don’t know.I give up.Jesus I’m white and it will be a long day and a dark night before I will set foot in Florida.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            understood, pat. it feels like fighting a losing battle sometimes, but i’m not ready to give up.

      • gblock says:

        If they really need their fix of Disney, the original Disneyland is right here, in Orange County, Southern California. Warm weather and generally not as humid as Florida. Lots of Oranges, too.

        • gblock says:

          Oh yes, and nice beaches too. From what I’ve heard, the water is colder around here than in Florida.

    • racerrodig says:

      I can drink CA orange juice with nooooooooo problem.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        @racer — yup, in fact, i will just go to the back yard, pick some oranges and juice them my own damn self!

  126. LBTG says:

    I’m amused when conservatives tells us to forget about the trial. ‘Get over it. Zimmerman is “Not Guilty”. The court has spoken.’

    But when it involves a woman’s right to choose and the Supreme Court has spoken, it’s not a done deal. They are packing the SC with conservative judges whenever possible. Isn’t some state that is even trying to force an ultrasound before woman can get birth control? Just google
    ultrasound before birth control

    And when it comes to Obamacare, the House has tried to repeal Obamacare 40 times. But the Supreme Court said that Obamacare was legal.

    • ladystclaire says:

      Would they be so damn quick, to forget about this FARCE OF A TRIAL if Trayvon had been white and, this know criminal GZ was black? HELL NO they wouldn’t and they know damn well they wouldn’t.

      Poor Sybrina, Tracy, Jahvaris and the entire family of Trayvon, didn’t know they were praying with the devil when they bowed their heads in prayer with this despicable woman.

  127. fauxmccoy says:

    professor — if you were prosecuting this case, how could you effectively point out the ineptitude and corruption of SPD (from their crime scene techs up to their detectives and beyond) without hindering your own case? that is, if you call the initial investigation and physical evidence into question, how do you go forward with your case knowing that the integrity of the evidence has now been compromised before the jury?

    that is my question. comments to follow once formulated

  128. //once Serino and Singleton turned against the prosecution, Bernie de la Rionda should have torn Serino to shreds by bringing out that he tampered with witnesses to get them to identify George Zimmerman as the person who uttered the terrified death shriek //

    In retrospect, BDLR would have had nothing to lose by doing this, especially since jurors tend to give leo testimony more credibility than other witnesses.

    But this could backfire, leaving the jury to find the whole lot of evidence tainted and open the door to show reasonable doubt through which Fogen would nevertheless walk. But any defense attorney worth her salt would have used this tainted police investigation as the prominent theory of their defense case. instead, however, the Ice Cream Team chose to play the race card from a stacked deck of hateful lies about Trayvon Benjamin Martin for profitable donations to their defense fund.

  129. commenting says:

    People, I don’t think the prosecution aim to uncover police corruption, no one expected serino or singleton to say on the stand that gz should have been charged from day 1 or to say they did not belive gz’s story but the did no charge him because they were told no too………………….but like I said before u could see the guilt in serino’s body language..it’s like his mouth was saying one thing but his body was saying the opposite……………where as when you listened to singleton, you saw a perfect canditate, a heartless individual who could perform the job of toturing captured soildiers with no problem

  130. ay2z says:

    Billy Lee, at the scene that night, helicopter in inclement weather when air ambulance was grounded, at the scene that night, and Serino selling the face of the ‘investigation’ as legitimate, selling the idea ‘that’s you’ screaming, ‘that was the killer’ screaming.

    Then the prosecutions failures (not at the hands oRich Mantai, nor John Guy, as non lead counsel.

    I’m holding out hope that there is method in this avoidance of race, and that this will not be a similar ‘wash’ by the feds to make this strike three (level three) out for justice.

    Someone besides the defendant did not want the case to include race, and as Clemente pointed out, it was the prosecutions decision, to not argue race and they could easily have avoided the term ‘racial profiling’ with other terms.

    The jury could have learned what profiling is for law enforcement, that it is not a predictor of an individual’s behaviour in the future from no starting point of a crime or action.

    Not how this killer fogen did it, HE decided, he interpreted for himself and for his story, HE was in control, and in that sense, if he assumes the role of a god to decide, he was right, it was ‘god’ (small g for george)’s plan.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      check out tim wise on nicole sandler’s interwebz radio show.

      http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/35964997

      in short, he states that it would be the natural inclination of the prosecution to not bring up the race issue because of their fear of alienating the jury, making jurors feel defensive over their own bias. he demonstrates how this does not work, but there is some level of understanding as to how the flawed decision was reached by the prosecution.

      i found it interesting.

  131. degraveegmailcom says:

    I copied this from eyesforlies blog. Here’s the link
    http://blog.eyesforlies.com/search?updated-max=2013-07-09T10:38:00-05:00&max-results=4&start=4&by-date=false

    This post was originally published on June 21, 2012.
    It’s a review of the walkthrough very detailed and accurate.

    George Zimmerman:

    I was still on the phone with a non-emergency and I started walking …..down this wayā€¦.and …..because I didnā€™t see a street sign here, but I knew if I could go straight through that that is Retreat View Circle, and I could give him an address because he said just give me the address of the house in you are in front of and there are no addresses because these are the back of the houses (When Zimmerman says this, right next to him are the front of unitsā€”and he flat ignored that). So I walk straight through here, andā€¦ā€¦I didnā€™t see him ….at all. I was walking …..and I was still on the phone with EMā€¦ ah, non-emergency.

    If Zimmerman was looking to get an address, I would have expected him to get the address at the end of the path on Retreat View Circle, but if you notice he never did–even though he walked all the way there. That speaks volumes. It is my belief that Zimmerman was still looking for Martin–still in hot pursuit but says that he was looking for an address to cover his true intent. His words “didn’t see him…at all” stand out to me.

    I got to…. about ā€¦..(walking) …..here, and I got to about here, and I had a flashlight with me. The flashlight was dead, though. And I looked around and I didnā€™t see anybody, and I told non-emergency, I said ā€œYou know what? Heā€™s gone.

    Again these words show Zimmerman’s intent was to seek out and find Martin, without question. It wasn’t to get an address. Zimmerman was clearly asked not to follow Martin, but there is no doubt he was still in pursuit.

    Heā€™s not even hereā€¦so …………I still though I could use their address, so I walked all the way through.

    Notice the long pause when he said, “he’s not even here….so…..” Notice the address is an afterthought? Very telling.

    And………. I actually walked all the way to the street and I was going to give them this address and they said, ā€œWell if heā€™s not there, do you still want a police officer?ā€ And I said yes andā€¦ā€¦…..and they said, ā€œDo you still want a police officerā€ and I said yes and they said, ā€œAre you following …?ā€

    Notice how Zimmerman says he “actually” walked all the way to the street. Yes, he did–in pursuit of Martin–not for an address.The fact that Zimmerman has to repeat his story is a red flag for me. He does it several times (below too). People often do this to remember–to get more time when they change facts. If his goal was to get the address as he says, he would have stuck to that–especially when he asked the police to come in spite of knowing where Martin was.

    Oh, umā€¦ Iā€™m sorry, back there, they said are you following him, and I said yes because I was, you know, in the area. And they said we donā€™t need you to do that, and I said okay so I ….thatā€™s when I walked straight through here so I could get the address so I could meet the police officer. And then they said, uhhhā€¦I said heā€™s not here, they said do you still want them to come, and I said yes, and they said where do you want him to come to, and I said you know just tell him to meet me at my truck, next to the clubhouse, you go straight into the clubhouse and makes a left, I have a Honda Ridgeline, a silver Honda Ridgeline parked right there. Iā€™ll meet him right there. So I started walking back.

    Why wouldn’t he tell the police to meet him the first time at the clubhouse like he did this time? Clearly when asked, this is what he naturally thought. What he tells us in this interview is nonsense, but he doesn’t want to admit to being in pursuit–that would make him look bad. When Zimmerman says, “I started walking back” he says it as a question. The tone of his voice goes up instead of down. This is notable for me, and can be another clue to deception that something else may have happened here.

    (Zimmerman sighs)

    When I got toā€¦ā€¦. I pass here, I looked, I didnā€™t see anything again and I was walking back to my truck and then when I got to right about here, he yelled….. from behind meā€¦.from behind meā€¦to the side of me. He said, ā€˜Yo, you got a problem?ā€ And I turned around, and I said, ā€œNo, I donā€™t have a problem, man.ā€

    (talk with officer)
    He was about there, but he was walking towards me. (So he was coming from this direction here). Yes, sir. I believe I was already passed that so I didnā€™t see exactly where he came from, but he was about where you were. And I said no I donā€™t have a problem and I went to go grab my cell phone, but myā€¦I left it in a different pocket and I went…I looked down at my pant pocket and he said, ā€œYou got a problem nowā€ and he was here and he punched me in the face. (Right here?) Right up around here (grassy area). To be honest, I donā€™t remember exactly…um… I think I stumbled and I… fell down, or he pushed me down and somehow he got on top of me.

    We have several false starts (sentence changes direction due to cognition–which is indicative of deception). When Zimmerman says Martin said, “You have a problem now” I would expect some emotional inflection in Zimmerman’s voice. That would have been a tense moment, but he says it as if it has no meaning. This stands out to me. The words “I think” jump at me here, too. He says “think” twice (below too). He should know exactly how the argument precipitated. The words “I think” are a hedge, if you ask me. He should absolutely know if he fell, or if he was pushed down. He also should remember distinctly how Martin got on top of him, but he doesn’t. Interestingly, the details when it is most critical fuzz into a blur! Hmmm…..

    (On the grass or on the cement)? It wasā€¦ ov…moreā€¦more over towards here (George walks). I think I was trying to push him away from me and then… he… got on top of me somewhere around… here, and ā€¦ā€¦.ahā€¦….thatā€™s when I started screaming for help.

    I started screaming for help as loud as I could and thatā€™s whenā€¦.ohā€¦I tried to sit up and thatā€™s when he grabbed me by the head and tried to slam my head down and (Where you on the cement or were you on the grass?) No, my body was on the grass, my head was on the cement.

    Notice the long pause between “here, and …..ah….that’s when I started screaming for help.” Why would he struggle to remember this? It shows he is thinking as he speaks…not talking from memory, if you ask me.

    Notice the change of direction of thoughts…”was…ov….more…./…and……ah…..that’s? He was screaming for help and then…”oh I tried to sit up” out of the blue. This feels like something Zimmerman wanted to remember that perhaps isn’t part of the story. Notice the se, if you ask me. He should absolutely know if he fell, or if he was pushed down. He also should remember distinctly how Martin got on top of him, but he doesn’t. Interestingly, the details when it is most critical fuzz into a blur! Hmmm…..

    (On the grass or on the cement)? It wasā€¦ ov…moreā€¦more over towards here (George walks). I think I was trying to push him away from me and then… he… got on top of me somewhere around… here, and ā€¦ā€¦.ahā€¦….thatā€™s when I started screaming for help.

    I started screaming for help as loud as I could and thatā€™s whenā€¦.ohā€¦I tried to sit up and thatā€™s when he grabbed me by the head and tried to slam my head down and (Where you on the cement or were you on the grass?) No, my body was on the grass, my head was on the cement.

    Notice the long pause between “here, and …..ah….that’s when I started screaming for help.” Why would he struggle to remember this? It shows he is thinking as he speaks…not talking from memory, if you ask me.

    Notice the change of direction of thoughts…”was…ov….more…./…and……ah…..that’s? He was screaming for help and then…”oh I tried to sit up” out of the blue. This feels like something Zimmerman wanted to remember that perhaps isn’t part of the story. Notice the se, if you ask me. He should absolutely know if he fell, or if he was pushed down. He also should remember distinctly how Martin got on top of him, but he doesn’t. Interestingly, the details when it is most critical fuzz into a blur! Hmmm…..

    (On the grass or on the cement)? It wasā€¦ ov…moreā€¦more over towards here (George walks). I think I was trying to push him away from me and then… he… got on top of me somewhere around… here, and ā€¦ā€¦.ahā€¦….thatā€™s when I started screaming for help.

    I started screaming for help as loud as I could and thatā€™s whenā€¦.ohā€¦I tried to sit up and thatā€™s when he grabbed me by the head and tried to slam my head down and (Where you on the cement or were you on the grass?) No, my body was on the grass, my head was on the cement.

    • degraveegmailcom says:

      Notice the long pause between “here, and …..ah….that’s when I started screaming for help.” Why would he struggle to remember this? It shows he is thinking as he speaks…not talking from memory, if you ask me.

      Notice the change of direction of thoughts…”was…ov….more…./…and……ah…..that’s? He was screaming for help and then…”oh I tried to sit up” out of the blue. This feels like something Zimmerman wanted to remember that perhaps isn’t part of the story. Notice the speech hesitations (ah, um, etc)? I also find it weird Zimmerman says “tried to slam my head down”. That would indicate that Martin wasn’t successful, wouldn’t it?? But he goes on below to say “slamming and slamming”. Hmmm….. I question this entire story, frankly.

      Um….That is as best as I could feel through my jacket was I felt like my body was on the grass and my head was on the cement, and he kept slamming and slamming, and uhā€¦ and I just kept yelling help, help, help (spoken in a very soft tone) as loud as could and ā€¦he put his hand on his nose, my nose and his other hand on my mouth

      Do you think if you are in a struggle for your life with a guy who threatens to kill you that you will notice your head is half on the cement or only a “small portion of my head [was] on the concrete”? Do you think you would be able to register all of this as your head is getting beaten in while lying on your back? I’m not buying it. I also notice how Zimmerman’s voice pitch drops when he says he was crying out for help. It’s a red flag for me. BUT more than that, listen to the words Zimmerman uses, “He put his hand on his nose…my nose…” That’s a slip of the tongue. It could have meaning or it may not, but what Zimmerman does next in his “reenactment” really brings home to me that this was a serious slip of the tongue. Zimmerman moves his hands as if he is the perpetrator when he recollects the story!!! He is reliving this moment as if he were Martin — or the AGGRESSOR!!!! This is huge, strange behavior!!! Look at him move his arms as if he was covering someone’s mouth and nose.

      If you are a victim, you do NOT have the memory of the perp!!! You have an entirely different one looking from the ground up!!! You have no idea what the other person experienced!!!! You wouldn’t even think of it, and if you did, you’d flinch! It would be hard to do. I can’t help but wonder if Zimmerman switched his memories by putting himself in Martin’s shoes when he talks so he can play the victim!! There is a lot of evidence behaviorally to support this. It gives me the chills!!

      and he said ā€œShut the fuck up.ā€ (Look at Zimmerman’s hands as if he again were the perp) And umā€¦. Then I tried squirming again because all I could think about wasā€¦when he was hitting my head againstā€¦it felt like it was going to explode.

      Notice all the changes in sentence direction? This shows cognition, which we don’t see in honesty. Notice how he stopped himself short of saying “cement”? Why does he have a hard time saying cement here?? Is he afraid from his injuries, people won’t believe his head was slammed repeatedly against cement??? Is this wiggle room so he can say I must have had my head on the grass, and didn’t know it??
      I thought I was going to lose consciousness so I tried to squirm, so I could getā€¦he only had a small portion of my head on the concrete so I tried to squirm off the concrete, and when I did that, somebody here opened the door and I said, ā€œHelp me, help meā€ and they said, ā€œIā€™ll call 911.ā€ And I said, ā€œNo help meā€. I need help. (change in demeanor).

      If your head is being slammed on concrete, and you are laying on your back, do you think you would hear someone open a door? This is odd. I would expect the perpetrator to hear it, but not the victim–when he is a struggle for his life. His heart should be pounding out of his chest and he would be in flight or fight mode. In that mode, it would be unlikely you would hear a door open.

      Furthermore, notice he doesn’t talk about Martin getting distracted at this point, reacting to the stranger’s voice–nothing. If Martin was on top of Zimmerman as he says, hitting him or bashing his head on concrete, Martin would have reacted to that voice, and Zimmerman would have used that time to get away! Yet none of this happened. Hmmm…. Martin didn’t react to a thing–just kept after him. I don’t buy it.

      The behaviors described by Zimmerman don’t make sense, unless Zimmerman was the one on top. If he was “in pursuit” of Martin as we know he was, and he felt like he was “getting a bad guy”, he absolutely would have heard this man, and may have asked for help at this point and he wouldn’t have gotten off Martin, would he?

      Reverse it and things make much more sense.

      On that note, have you watched Zimmerman’s body language and behavior? His body is relaxed the entire time he talks about this situation and struggle. We don’t see any fear, stress, anxiety, sadness, remorse–nothing negative whatsoever!!! It’s highly notable. Add to the fact that Zimmerman had no worries about going to the hospital, yet he tells us he was afraid he was going to lose consciousness. Yeah, right.

      I donā€™t know what they did but ahā€¦thatā€™s when my jacket moved up and I had my firearm on my right side hip ā€¦. my jacket moved up (look at Zimmerman look down when he speaks) and he saw it, I feel like he saw it. He looked at it, and he said, ā€œYouā€™re gonna die tonight MFā€ and he reached for it but he reached, but I felt like his arm going down to my side and I grabbed it, and I just grabbed my firearm and shot it one time.

      Notice the details fuzz here again when it comes to the gun? I don’t buy it whatsoever.

      After I shot him, he like sat up. (After you shot him, what did he say?) After I shot him, he like sat upā€¦.(talk)

      He like sat up? Like shows hesitation here. It’s a hedge. It makes me question his story again. How does one “like sit up?” They either sit up or they don’t. It’s like this: I kinda went to the store.” Oh really?

      Yes, sir, he was on top of me like this (straddle)ā€¦I shot him and I didnā€™t think I hit him because he sat up and said, ā€œokay, you got me. You got it, you got it”ā€¦something like that. So I thought he was just saying, ā€œI know you have a gun now, I heard itā€¦Iā€™m giving up.ā€

      If he wasn’t sure he shot Martin or not, why does he say earlier “after I shot HIM” (two sentences up!!!). Ridiculous! He knew damn well he shot Martin. This is a load of crap!!

      I donā€™t know if I pushed him off me or he fell off me. Either way, I got on top of him, and I pushed his arms apart. (Did you flip him over?) I donā€™t remember how I got on top of him, but I got on his back and moved his arms apart because when he was repeatedly hitting me in the faceā€¦and the headā€¦.I thought he had something in his handsā€¦.so I just moved his hands apart. (Uh, so you had him face down then). Yes, face down and I was on his backā€¦.

      Notice the missing details again? He doesn’t know what happened. Notice how he also doesn’t remember flipping him over??? This would be a life and death struggle and if you are gaining the upper hand, you’d remember!! Oops. ALSO, if a guy attacked you, are you going to drop your gun if you don’t believe you shot him, and grab his hands instead? Ridiculous!! Who on earth would leave a gun laying around for a perp to grab? Also notice now he adds he was repeatedly hit in the face–on top of the slamming. Hmmm…..

      …and then somebody came with a flashlight and I thought it was a police officer, so I said, ā€œAre you the police?ā€ and I thou…ā€¦I still had my gun out, and I said are you the police, my guns right here, and he said no, no Iā€™m notā€¦Iā€™m calling the police, and I said donā€™t call the police, help me restrain this guy.

      And he said Iā€™m calling the police, Iā€™m calling the police and I said I already called, they are on their way. Their coming. I need your help. And uh…thatā€™s when the police officer, uhā€¦came around and I saw the police officer so I stood up and I holstered my weapon and he said, ā€œWho shot him?ā€ And I said I did and I put my hands up and I said I did, and I donā€™t know if told me to or if I automatically turned my back to him and I lifted my shirt and I said my guns right there.

      This last paragraph says it all. The police officer asks who shot him. If Zimmerman didn’t think he shot Martin, would he say, “I did”? Of course not!!! The normal, honest response if Zimmerman’s story is true is “This man attacked me, and I tried to shoot him, but I missed. He talked to me. He beat me and nearly killed me.” But there is none of that. Why????

      No, Zimmerman acted like a man who pursued a target, attacked him, killed him and was waiting for the police to come see what a hero he was.

      Not only do I not believe Zimmerman’s account AT ALL, he has already made it clear in his jailhouse recordings, he’s willing to lie when it suits him.

      I hope he is held accountable to what he did to Trayvon Martin. I hope justice is served is this case and swiftly!

      • fauxmccoy says:

        all of your points are valid, but add to this — george speaks like an idiot even at the best of times.

        • degraveegmailcom says:

          Faux,not like an idiot that’s to easy, he is cunning and connniving.
          Remember the middle eastern guy,he even started to doubt himself after he heard Fogen speak to management about the
          complaint. Remember the ex who he went and filed a restraining order after she had reported him to the cops.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            deegrave — i’ll allow for the fact that he does his best to be conniving, but only a fool would be fooled.

            regarding the restraining order — that is SOP. if one party files a restraining order, often the other party will do so as well. in cases which there is no physical evidence, it is just one person’s word against the other and restraining orders are issued on behalf of both with no questions asked.

          • groans says:

            Yes, he’s cunning and conniving. And he did fool plenty of fools, culminating in fooling the six fools who declared him not guilty of murder or manslaughter.

        • racerrodig says:

          I’m not sure he’s as smart as a bona fide idiot……come on now, lets not exaggerate.

      • commenting says:

        Trayvon was on top..there are stains on the knees og his pants to prove that, he may have been wrestling with gz to restrain him……and I do did not expect Trayvon ti immediately react when he is in the middle of a struggle, he probably thought John would have come out to help, he probably felt it was ok to retreat after John said he was calling 911 , that is how gz was avle to get the gun, the gun that Trayvon never saw,untill it was too late

        • commenting says:

          Gz remembered alot of little details except for the taste of blood running down his throat, and whether or not he flipped Trayvon’s body over after he shot him

        • BillT says:

          clue = mud on Martins knees ONLY shows he fell on them after being shot…..

          • Judy A Vallejos says:

            I think the grass stains on Trayvon’s knees came from being held in the wrist control lock that zimmerass had on him before shooting him through the heart for not shutting up. All the while having the gun out/pointed at him and questioning him. and it only takes one hand to do it. with the MMA training zimmerass had I am sure he knew exactly how to this…

            My husband has had some classes In Hop Kito(??? spelling???)

            he says a wrist control lock would automatically force a person to their knees if it is done correctly…he then demonstrated it for me….on me….it is very painful immediately and you literally “drop” to your knees in immense pain

            I started hollering right away….and my husband was being “nice” about it….

        • commenting says:

          Witness 18 saw people on the ground wrestling, though it was dark so she didn’t see any straddling after the shot, she did not see the change of positions,

      • racerrodig says:

        Well written. Amazing what the realities are. I’ll add this. Everyone of us has a history. We went to school, have jobs, hobbies, raised kids and all that.

        Brink to mind a single factual event & replay it in your mind. I can safely guarantee you will not have a bs recollection like Fogen has….1 day later no less, when you tell us.

        In every race I was in, to this day, I can recite every detail without stuttering, “…I think(s)…” or “…I don’t remember(s)…”
        I also won’t have the ridiculous voice inflections Fogen has such as “…right about therrrrreeee…” (pointing to alleged attack launch point) or “….late teeeeeens…” in his NEN call.

        I would not be swatting gnats either and for damn sure I can tell you I won’t be off by 46 feet. I won’t have any phoney B movie expressions to quote from my opponent, win or lose because there are no draws.

        And the fact is “The truth never changes…..but the lie always morphs” which is why he has so many versions and sub – versions.

        I witnessed an auto / motorcycle accident on Sunday 9/1/1974 and can recite every detail to this day. Plays I was involved in during 13 years of football, racing, work events, vacation events, you name it and I can retell the story with no variations.

        Why is it that Fogen, Robbie the racist, Taaffe, Osterman and the rest of his posse can’t do likewise ?? Why was this fact ignored as it was. Why does a chronically un / underemployed loser like Fogen get a pass on this when this alone with less evidence gets others convicted ??

        It is disgusting that a shit like Fogen rates this much attention in this way, yet the only other witness is silenced and becomes the victim. The victim is then relegated to “…also involved…” status and denigrated to no end in another disgusting display by the defense.

        • Trained Observer says:

          In other words, why was virtually everyone in this sorry cast of characters allowed to lie their asses off without serious challenge by the prosecution? I thought Team BDLR was saving the heavy artillary for rebuttal. I was wrong.

          • Malisha says:

            TO, I also thought they were going to storm in with rebuttal and destroy every milligram of the defense. I imagined that the reason BDLR didn’t use the biggest guns early on was simply the cameras in the courtroom factor. With a normal trial that plays out ONLY in that room, you follow the normal rules. MAKE YOUR CASE on the direct, in your main case, and only leave for rebuttal what damage is done to it on defense. The reason I imagined BDLR had changed this basic well known legal strategy was that he knew the cameras were rolling and the media were flapjawing, so he wanted them to walk right into the “oh he’s gonna get off” position before he pulled the rug out from under them, for the kind of a wrap-up that would make the whole country realize that his department didn’t walk into this without a solid case (“just a political ploy to satisfy the niggras down there and their librull media whores because of the anti-white Administration”) and without the wherewithal to finish what they had started.

            What seemed to me to be happening was (as I stated then) that BDLR was carefully sacrificing Fogen to save the SPD and the others who were corrupt and racist and to let the officials skate while satisfying the protests by locking up the shooter (whom they would then free in some secret way so he could escape after the furor died down).

            What actually happened was much worse than that. A friend of mine who IS a Florida lawyer called me and said that she had told me — when the first picture of the back of Fogen’s head came out — that “he’s gonna get off” and that she had told me during the trial — early on — that the mistakes BDLR was making were a sure sign he was deliberately throwing the case, and she claims that each time she told me these things I kept not believing her, and kept saying that these things were NOT proof that BDLR was throwing the case or that Fogen was going to walk. She finally got on my nerves so much yesterday (after I was hot and tired and back from the rally) that I shouted at her:

            “What do you want me to say, that my disbelief is what lost the case for us? That my not being cynical enough brought about this scandal of injustice? That my not immediately believing you while you were saying the imponderable was a form of unfaithfulness on my part? What is it you want me to admit and exactly how bad do you want me to feel before we can agree that I PERSONALLY LOST THIS CASE by my failure to see how thoroughly rotten, and utterly racist, and irredeemably criminal all those officials are, when they have all the power and nothing I ever tried to tell them or hoped they would see counted for a goddamn because I don’t have a billion dollars and I can’t take any of their kids as hostages?!?!!!”

            She did manage to say good-bye before hanging up.

            And I did realize that this is part of the angst I have to bear when thinking about the case. Was my failure to believe this would be the result a reason this result has occurred? Could I have changed the course of this event?

            All philosophical questions aside, I cannot blame anybody but the perpetrators for the crimes that have been committed. The crimes have included, but are not limited to:

            Criminal deprivation of Trayvon Martin’s life interest in the protection of the SPD when he was present, and alive, in Sanford.

            Criminal deprivation of Sybrina Fulton’s and Jahvaris Fulton’s and Tracy Martin’s life interest in due process and equal protection during and after the death of their family member.

            Criminal conspiracy to deprive Trayvon Martin of his liberty interest in walking home from the 7-11 without interference.

            Criminal conspiracy to deprive Trayvon Martin of his life interest in the equal protection of the SYG law as passed and in effect in the State of Florida in 2012.

            Criminal conspiracy to deprive Trayvon Martin of his life interest in the due process his estate was entitled to during the investigation of his homicide, including but not limited to the vigorous and rigorous examination of what was done to him.

            Criminal conspiracy to deprive Trayvon Martin of his life interest in safety in the streets by the 2005 cover-up of violent felonious crimes committed against ATF agents by the man who would ultimately get a CCW license and use that state-given benefit to kill him.

            Criminal conspiracy to deprive Trayvon Martin of his life interest in safety in the streets by the 2005 cover-up of violent domestic relations crimes committed against a woman (Zueza) by the man who would ultimately get a CCW license and use that state-given benefit to kill him.

          • racerrodig says:

            Looks like they had us all fooled. I was around cop and prosecution / politics stuff for years and this one had me fooled it turns out.

        • Two sides to a story says:

          The case became about political ideologies rather than a shooting.

    • LBTG says:

      MOM’s demo showed Trayvon grabbing fogen by the SHOULDERS and shaking fogen violently. Fogen’s head would have snapped back and forth as it hit the sidewalk and brought back up.

      Fogen says here that Trayvon grabbed fogen’s HEAD.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        that ‘demonstration’ was patently ridiculous and should have been challenged. the human body does not act like a rag doll and offers resistance when such an attempt is made — especially considering the weight/muscle differential between the two parties.

        • commenting says:

          Because if he grabbed gz by the head, trayvon would have scraped his skin in doing so, there would have been evidence under Trayvon’s nails no matter how short they were, and also bruising on gz’s skin………..yes gz also did not remember how Trayvon held his head to bash it..he told serino he could not remember, but he demonstrated it in the reenactment..he demonstrated his heead being lifted and bashed over and over

          • degraveegmailcom says:

            He demonstrates being the perpertator doing the bashing.

          • commenting says:

            Hey I am in no way saying that Trayvon basheded gz’s head….I simply gave reasons y o’mara chose not to hold the dummy by the head

        • racerrodig says:

          Let me add this as scientifically proven. If Trayvon had grabbed Fogen bu the shoulders and did what the demo showed, Fogen would have been bitching about a “whiplash” style neck that night.

          Drag cars I have driven can accelerate violently, far more energy expended than any human can possibly accelerate another persons head by hand. The last car I owned covered the 1st 60 feet in 1.26 seconds. Back in 85 – 90 I drove another vehicle that did likewise and after several weeks my neck was killing me and I didn’t know why. I bought a neck collar to keep my head from being snapped back so hard which solved the problem.

          The greatest g force in a drag car is the 1st instant of movement and decreases the farther you go. The last car I owned went 144.95 mph in the 1/4 and at half track (660 feet) it was traveling 118.00 mph. From a dead stop to 118 in 660 ft. but only another 26 mph in the last 660 ft.

          The point is that common sense says SheLie wouldn’t be able to find ridiculous bandages for that injury. He’d have been yapping about his neck.

          More applied factual sense. Every time I was tackled playing football in the open field from a hit from my left 180 degrees across the front to my right, by a fast moving defensive player would result in my neck being sore. How does Fogen never mention a neck issue.

          It’s beyond comprehension the utter lack of factual injuries he had. Don’t get me started on his lack of injuries to a bald head from concrete. Fall off a bike and look at your knees then tell me they look like his scratches.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            yes, racer — if the shake down occurred as o’mara demonstrated with the dummy, you would expect whiplash injury. it was a ridiculous demonstration and trayvon would not have had the physical strength to have done so with a resisting human being.

        • gblock says:

          Yeah, I’ll have to remember to do that if I’m ever assaulted by a foam mannequin!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Any idiot would stiffen up, resist, and not let anyone shake them like a dummy. A living man can’t be shaken as hard as OM shook that dummy in court. Ridiculous.

        • Xena says:

          @Two sides.

          A living man canā€™t be shaken as hard as OM shook that dummy in court. Ridiculous.

          It is impossible for a 158 lb person to pick up a 208 lb person by the shoulders to lift them up enough to bash them back down. O’Mara’s demonstration simply evidenced his own violent nature.

          • racerrodig says:

            And a series of accurate demonstrations should have been done showing what a normal person would do to protect them self. The brain goes straight into survival mode in all situations like that. I did some medical research on reaction to stimulus in 96 to improve my drag racing reactions when I went to the modern electronics. Long story short….when you react to something that inflicts pain, the brain gets the strongest muscles, which are the quickest, moving 1st.

            When you burn your finger on a hot pot while cooking, you don’t jerk your finger….your entire arm moves, and as fast as possible. Been there….done that, and we all have.

            We’re to believe the shit by omission the Fogen laid there and was about to enter diaper land and never raised a hand in defense or offense……..Pardon me ???

            We’re to believe Fogen spent 5 years 3 times a week 2 hours a day training and did nothing……..Fuck them !!

            THEN we’re to buy the shit that Trayvon, with 0 training was an MMA savage attack expert…….and that shit from Kokapelli’s said it takes years to be an MMA fighter…..and that contradiction went unchallenged.

            Fogen – 150 + lessons in an MMA gym = Pussy Boy

            Trayvon Martin – takes gym class = Savage MMA killer

            I don’t see the math…….a little help…Oh, my bad…Trayvon played youth football.

          • Xena says:

            @racerrodig. At times I think the prosecution did not raise an aggressive challenge against defense witnesses because they were so unbelievable. Then we hear from juror B37’s literary agent that the jury decided its verdict “due to the way [Zimmerman] was charged.” Effectively, to juror B37, Zimmerman was never on trial because she believed he should not have been charged.

          • racerrodig says:

            You’ll get no argument from me. The “No Arrest Guarantee” that was so highly touted last year must have stuck with her.

          • Xena says:

            @racerrodig. I’m working on something now, but it’s taking a long time. Tedious — watching jury selection days 1 through 3, and might also watch 4 again. I detected something in O’Mara’s questioning of B37 that he did not do with other potential jurors.

          • racerrodig says:

            Stealth oriented questions maybe.

          • Xena says:

            @racerrodig.

            Stealth oriented questions maybe.

            Stealth oriented instructions. I have to get some sleep, and when I awake I’ll proof what I’m working with and get it posted.

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            I look forward to seeing the results of your work, Xena!

          • Xena says:

            @yahtc. I look forward to completing it. LOL!! Looks like I’m going to pull an all niter.

      • pat deadder says:

        LBTG BDLR did ask in his closing What was fogen doing was he just a rag doll.In some ways I think the prosecution did ok.I mean I would have voted for at least manslaughter from just listening to evidence in the court room. .I think I knew the fix was in when fogen was laughing after he watched the Hannity interview and he turned to west who ignored him and west put on his serious face as if to tell fogen to cool it and not to look so obvious.I also was so angry at JN when she couldn’t pronounce BDLR name how disrespectful on purpose.

    • pat deadder says:

      degrave He had to change his story because he knew he shot Trayvon 30 ft further down the path in the grass.So he had to change it to he started stumbling.Anyone on the jury who looked at the evidence and found him not guilty are mentally handicapped and b37 had the nerve to judge Rachael’s IQ.who I thought was very credible.She related the events without ever having been there.

      • racerrodig says:

        By the standard of B 37’s use of IQ judgement, if Einstein had testified for the state, was that a guaranteed conviction ?

        Note to all witnesses : Fake up a genius IQ test and tell the prosecution about it.

        • pat deadder says:

          racer If Einstein had testified etc. This is going in my book of funnies from this blog .. It struck my funny bone.Thank god for sarcastic humor.

          • pat deadder says:

            PS racer b37 would not have understood Einstein’s accent.

          • racerrodig says:

            pat deandder to your 6:15…..

            Accent…..he had an accent ?? I understood it……Oh, B37 not understanding it…….gotcha !! With her room temperature IQ, I can see that.

  132. ay2z says:

    Prof, thank you for your thoughts in this latest, and illuminating summary of the prosecution.

    What do you think about the ‘sisconnect’ of the prosecution to Rachel as their witness, and the disconnect in their closing?

    Looking back on the closing, the emotional power of John Guy’s closing, to me, was disconnected from the first hours of closing argument by Bernie, almost negated that ‘make work’, tasking the jury to look at this piece of evidence and that piece of evidence.

    Clemente makes an excellent point, of how Rachel was not properly prepared, the prosescutors did not understand who she was as a person, what she was about, how to understand her so the jury could understand her, understand Trayvon.

    And the use of the word ‘creepy’ as the focus, not ‘ass’, not ‘cracka’ or ‘cracker’ or the variation on any other word as slang.

    Creepy, the jury HAD to understand, to relate, to a young boy, teenager, being followed and how HE felt.

    And Rachel is intelligent, she did not need these prosecutors to apologize for her to the jury, to anyone. I recognized that, and Clemente explained it.

    18 years old. The jury was allowed to accept their own impressions, bias driven if only by their perspective that lacked any understanding, and knowledge, any feeling, of what Rachel was truly about.

    Clemente put it so well.

  133. commenting says:

    When Trayvon ran, I don’t think it was because he was shaking in his boots scared, he was uncomfortable, with gz watcing him so he ran to get out of his sight……..now I’m sure he got a little nervous when he realized that gz haad left his truck to follow on foot…….I believe he ran in between the building to RVC , remained there for a while and decided to walk back in to continue on his iriginan route because gz might drive around and spot him walking on the street…………..

    • commenting says:

      Original…but low and behold he saw gz….and he may have been stating cerrtain things to Rachel to keep her from worrying/ not that he intended to decieve her….so Rachel speculated or interpreted some things based on ………

    • pat deadder says:

      Trayvon Martin never knew or even imagined fogen got out of his truck.Once he got on the path which everyone called the DOG WALK. he felt safe until he saw fogen behind him again on foot.Don’t you remember being a teenager.He was a kid talking on the phone and he wanted it to be a private conversation so he dawdled.And by the way fogen told Singleton in the first interview he went through the Dog Walk.I think he said coons but even if he didn’t he stalked the kid would he have stalked him if he was white NO.I think fogen got out of his truck was loading his gun.It was windy apparently.We are going on the assumption fogen told some truths he didn’t.He lied while he was on NEN call actually he lied from beginning to end except I SHOT HIM.

  134. brillance…thanks prof!

  135. LBTG says:

    Another thing that surprised me was the writing of jury instructions by the defense and prosecution. I thought the jury instructions would be standard and read by the judge.

    Here are the “FLORIDA
    STANDARD JURY INSTRUCTIONS
    IN CRIMINAL CASES”

    Click to access onlinejurryinstructions.pdf

    • bettykath says:

      Interesting. No one wanted to consider this.

      52
      3.3(f) AGGRAVATION OF A CRIME BY SELECTING A VICTIM
      BASED ON PREJUDICE
      Ā§ 775.085, Fla. Stat.
      If you find that (defendant) committed (crime charged or a lesser included crime) and you also find beyond a reasonable doubt that
      (defendant)

      1. perceived, knew, or had reasonable ground to perceive or know
      (victimā€™s) [race] [color] [ancestry] [ethnicity] [religion] [sexual orie
      ntation] [national origin] [homeless status] [mental or physical disability] [advanced age], and

      2. intentionally selected (victim) because of that perception or knowledge, then you should find the defendant guilty of (crime charged or lesser included crime) aggravated by the intentional selection of the victim based on prejudice.

      If you find that the defendant committed (crime charged or a lesser included crime) beyond a reasonable doubt, but you are not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that [he] [she] did so by intentionally selecting the victim based on prejudice, then you should find the defendant guilty of only (crime charged or a lesser included crime)
      .

      • LBTG says:

        No wonder MOM & West wanted to keep race / color out of the trial. Wonder if the prosecutor knew of this law – or conventiently forgot about it.

  136. two sides to a story says:

    Passionate article, Mr. L. and you do yourself proud to stand up so powerfully against the wave of corruption that has marred this case.

    I commented about the B37 and the lit agent on another thread and will do so again here. I work in the publishing industry. Literary agents do not work by phone for initial contact and the vast majority never have. Once an author has signed a contract with an agency, they may speak to their agent by phone, but initial contact by phone has always been discouraged. Lit agents receive thousands of queries a year and they would live on the phone if they allowed phone contact.

    That’s not saying that perhaps B37 and her husband felt the circumstances so special that they didn’t call – it’s possible that they did make a late Saturday night or early Sunday morning phone call after the verdict and weren’t turned away because of the high profile case – but that’s considering that the agent in WA state even published a phone number. That’s very unlikely because very few agencies publish a listed phone number.

    Most agents request contact via e-mail, and the more old-fashioned ones request contact by mail only. So it’s still possible that B37 and her husband fired off an e-mail after the verdict and that the agent saw it and happened to respond to it. This is somewhat of a miracle considering that lit agents often have a backlog of e-mails and mail queries to respond to and take anywhere from days to weeks – up to 12 weeks or more – to reply to author queries.

    However, it would be easy enough to find out when exactly B37 and her husband made contact with the lit agent simply by asking the agent!

    All this said, it wouldn’t surprise me if B37’s husband, being a lawyer, contacted the lit agent BEFORE the verdict and why she had time to consider and accept the query. It sounds as if she made an initial offer to represent B37 – very unusual without any writing completed, but on the other hand, what a grand commercial opportunity – and then rescinded the offer based on not feeling comfortable with B37’s interview on CNN on Monday.

    • Rachael says:

      Is it possible that her husband contacted the agent before the verdict (while she was still deliberating) in order to get a book deal and have it set up and ready to go regardless of what the verdict was?

      Something really stinks about it though, making money off a dead kid.

      You know, this brings up something that really pisses me off about the OUTHOUSE REFUSE!!!!! They go on and on about Sybrina trademarking Trayvon’s name and accusing her of making money off it. I don’t understand why they are so EFFING stupid and do not understand that the whole purpose behind the trademark is SPECIFICALLY so people like THEM can’t make money off the use and image of a dead child and more thuggification and just general disgusting things.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Yes, though it’s not impossible that the agent was contacted after the verdict, of course it’s quite possible that B37’s husband contacted the literary agent well ahead of the verdict because it would be a BIG juicy deal regardless which way the verdict went. They were clearly interested in striking while the iron was hot and to benefit financially from the case.

        One weak point in this, in my opinion, is that with Florida’s open sunshine law and the high profile of the case, there’s really not much left to the imagination – every little bit of info about the case and the trial itself played out in the media. The only thing we’d really get from a book would be highlights of the jury sequestration and what B37 would WANT the public to know about the jury’s deliberations. And I wouldn’t trust that, based on her CNN interview. And neither did 4 other jurors. I smell something fishy, and B37 and her husband are in the thick of it.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Two sides … Thank you for the publishing world insights. I can’t help but think this couple’s grandiose plan for a book on their “experience” was put into play before the verdict, possibly before B37 landed on the jury and when she was only a finalist, so to speak.

      I believe federal investigators should look into this by checking with the agent, who (having had the good sense to drop this project) likely would not risk perjury by lying about who first contacted who and when.

      How amusing that B37 went public, broadcasting her inane and ignorant thoughts and opinions — apparently little realizing that she’d just shot her wad. Who wants to pay for what they’ve already gotten for free?

      (For that matter, I believe the agent dropped the project because its potential for profit had been pissed away, not because of scruples.)

      • Two sides to a story says:

        It seems like the $ signs in their eyes blinded B37 and her husband to how they’d look in the eyes of the world.

        They couple;s actions would have been much more believable had they waited a few weeks or even months to write a manuscript and contact an agent. They were afraid they’d be upstaged – either that, or their quick move was part of an agreed-upon plan with GZLC to further bolster the myth of self-defense.

        Epic fail and I do hope that DOJ will investigate B37 thoroughly.

    • dianetrotter says:

      Is it possible that DJ would contact the literary agent? I think that would be eye opening.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        DJ?

      • Trained Observer says:

        diane — who is DJ?

        • dianetrotter says:

          sorry – DOJ. My stupid “o” is not working. I’ve got to get a new keyboard.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          i take DJ to be a shortened version of DoJ.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            Well, we hope DOJ would investigate jury issues. Realistically, thought, I don’t know if that would be a part of investigating civil rights issues or not.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            i think jury issues would fall under angela corey’s jurisdiction, it is not a federal matter.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            I don’t know what it will take for the State of FL to get interested in the Fogen jury. They seem to be all up into the “jury has spoken,” justice is served kind of stuff. And may even be complicit in the outcome of the case, in which case the feds are the only hope.

      • aussie says:

        What is there to investigate?

        It is apparently not illegal for jurors to write books afterwards. Not for potential authors to have agents. Move on, nothing to see here….

        What happened inside the jury room, now that IS worth investigating, in the light of the things this stupid woman said (including things that were not given in evidence).

    • bettykath says:

      Since the names of the jurors wasn’t known, it had to be the husband or the b37 who made the contact with the agent and not the other way around.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Who’s suggesting that the agent contacted the juror? That’s not impossible either, but it’s unlikely.

        I’m still trying to figure out who DJ is.

        It would be interesting to know if this agent has any personal ties with anyone at all involved in this case. Six degrees of separation and all that. Why out of all the possible choices of hundreds of lit agents in the US was this particular one contacted?

        • Two sides to a story says:

          I should add that it’s unlikely under normal circumstances that the lit agent contacted anyone because she wouldn’t know who to contact.

          But if there is some personal connection with B37 or her husband with GZLC, or if the agent has any personal connections with GZLC, then of course she may have initiated contact.

          That B37 and her husband announced this contact so fast is truly astounding and points toward either greed and wanting to trump everyone else on the jury with a book, or points toward someone wanting to quickly reinforce the self-defense fraud in the public’s mind.

        • dianetrotter says:

          I meant to say DOJ should look into the sheriff and the sequestratin.
          freaking “o” see what happened?

        • Lynn says:

          http://blogs.orlandoweekly.com/index.php/2013/07/look-whos-talking-was-there-a-mole-on-the-zimmerman-jury/

          “…B37 had been referred to her ā€œby a high ranking producer at one of the morning shows.ā€”

          • groans says:

            Great link. There’s been lots of talk here about B-37 and jury leaks, moles, and mishandling, but not so many links to sources. Thanks!

    • J4TMinATL says:

      I wonder what was in the media kit presented to the jurors…..

  137. KateW says:

    Yeah that “your going to die tonight m*f*ker” and “you got me or you got it” was so damn ridiculous. You could hear the African American community around the country sigh in unison at how ridiculous that sounded. That was some stereotypical BS and that killer knew damn well that boy did not say those contrived lines.

    • Rachael says:

      Actually, I don’t think it was so ridiculous, except that it was GZ who said that to Trayvon. I still believe he was holding him at gunpoint or in the “wrist control” or both while interrogating him about something (hence the “I don’t know) and HE was the one saying “you’re going to die tonight MFer.”

      The you got me is just stupid in any scenario though.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        This would not surprise me at all, Rachael.

      • bettykath says:

        How about, “You shot me.”

        • Two sides to a story says:

          I think that’s it’s quite possible and realistic that Trayvon might say that after being shot. He was probably astounded that a creepy stalker would follow him, accost him, and then shoot him as he was trying to defend himself.

          • Rachael says:

            I would think all he said was a rush of air escaping – perhaps a look on his face that was incredulous at having been shot.

          • believeinkarma says:

            He couldn’t get air past his vocal cords. His right lung collapsed and he was bleeding out into his chest. He never said anything. At most went “oomph”.

        • Malisha says:

          He said nothing after the scream ended. You don’t suddenly stop in mid-scream and articulate a little sentence like, “You shot me” or “you got me” or “you got it” or “I guess I am a thug because you said so” or “sorry for having given you a scratch or two on the way to your privileged killing of little undeserving me” or any of that. NO, it DID NOT HAPPEN. The scream ended Trayvon Martin’s ability to communicate. The last thing he was able to communicate to his environment was embodied in that scream. Every single person who said and/or testified that the scream was Fogen’s is a horrible, immoral, racist, blame-worthy criminal, every single one. Each of them deserves to die with a scream in their mouth that cannot exit. Nobody has a right to kill them but each of them deserves to die.

      • Christopher Charles says:

        Rachael, I am in total agreement with your comment. From the very beginning I thought the words attributed to Trayvon by fogen were fogen’s words to Trayvon. Trayvon’s alleged “you got me” imo, is fogen saying to Trayvon “I got you.” I think there is a term for that behavior: Projection.

        fogen is GUILTY of murdering Trayvon. fogen will get his fair and just reward, of that I am confident.

  138. Beverly says:

    Thank you for such a clear, thorough, and sane analysis. I had not heard all that much of the pre-trial irregularities. Im hoping Holder gets a copy of your report; I still think there may be a bit of Federal action. I agree that Obama needed to avoid that legal topic so that Holder is allowed to do his work. Thanks for staying on this.

  139. KateW says:

    First of all, LOL @ “out of control racist wacko”. Second, I thought the judge said they could not bring up race in the trial. Did they have an debate over using race and words like profiling. I thought they said the judge allowed the words like profiling and such but said they cannot bring up race. Am I wrong?

    • IIRC, Bernie did not object to the defense motion in limine to prohibit the State from mentioning racial profiling. He said he wasn’t planning on mentioning race, just profiling.

      If he had fought back on that issue and made an offer of proof identifying the evidence that he planned to introduce to prove the defendant’s race-based motive for hunting down, detaining and killing Trayvon, I think Judge Nelson would have denied the defense motion.

      In other words, he could have made it very difficult for her to grant the defense motion with an audience of millions watching.

  140. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    “CNNā€™s Don Lemon schools white conservative: ā€˜Your privilege does not allow you to seeā€¦ certain circumstances in societyā€™

    from RawStory

    “Youā€™re filtering it through a place of privilege that you donā€™t understand. Your privilege does not allow you to see certain biases and certain circumstances in society. And what I said on the air yesterday, let me finish, what I said on the air yesterday was that I hoped that you would sleep on it and at least think about it before having a knee-jerk reaction to what the President was saying ā€” the most powerful African-American in the world ā€” telling you that there is an issue and youā€™re telling him that his circumstances and what he sees and what he lives is not valid. And that is insulting to do that.ā€

    ā€œListen to me,ā€ said Lemon. ā€œIā€™m telling you about my experience. The president is telling you about his experience. And youā€™re saying that weā€™re not having that experience. And who are you to tell us weā€™re not having that experience when youā€™re not living it? Youā€™re not in our bodies. Itā€™s insulting for you to say, ā€˜Oh, Thatā€™s not happening!ā€™ How can you say that? You donā€™t live as a black man! You donā€™t know that!ā€

  141. me says:

    I enjoyed reading the piece but sadly I agree. I don’t think the DOJ will do anything. Trayvon died begging and screaming for his life. He tried to escape a creepy stranger who wanted to detain him.

    Holder is afraid of the GOP. They have been trying to get him on several issues. This thing became political when Jeb Bush said SYG didn’t apply, protests began, and international news covered it.

    2016 will be the first election that I sit out. I refuse to vote GOP. Not yet sure about the other options, 3rd partry/Democrat.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      “Died begging and screaming for his life” in front of a load of witnesses, in his father’s neighborhood, near the house where he was the homeowner’s welcome guest, expected back at any time. His killer was witnessed as being calm and cool seconds after killing Trayvon.

      It means nothing to anyone but Rachel and Trayvon’s family; everyone else, defendant, defendant’s family, defendant’s friends, defendant’s trainer at the fight-gym, defendant’s attorneys…saw this as a way to make some quick dough.

      We kept expecting someone to exhibit some basic personal or social morals, and were disappointed.

  142. commenting says:

    I think the prosecution should have told the jury that Trayvon’s bleedong was internal, the button on trayvon’s shirt did not even get soiled with blood, the bood was pumped from his heart into his chest cavity……………and they should have highlighted the part where gz said he remained straddled on Trayvon till Trayvon stopped moving……it was a show

    • commenting says:

      If my community was being burglarized by black men, I would be suspicious of black men who fit the profile and who were actually suspicious, but I would not go stalking and harrasing every black man I see,……………….if gz spoted tm where he said he did why did Trayvon only tell Rachel jentel about gz watching him when he was under the mail area

    • THE Shadow says:

      Oh my God, I fear I’m going to be sick!

  143. mimi712 says:

    I think this analysis by Jim Clemente is a great complement for the article and so worth watching it!

  144. mimi712 says:

    Racial Profiling, Rachel Jeantel and the Zimmerman Verdict Reaction

    • ay2z says:

      Guest was Jim Clemente, FBI Special Agent (retired) with host

      Loni Coombs, host.

      Here’s her bio page – http://www.lonicoombs.com/Bio.html

      Thanks so much for posting this excellent discussion, mimi, and introducing this host and guest.

      • mimi712 says:

        You’re welcome, ay2z! To me that was another eyeopener, connecting the dots, so to speak! I hope more will watch it!

      • concernedczen says:

        Jim Clemente is great.

        Loni Coombs is full of it. I’ve seen her other videos on this case on TheLip TV where she states that Serino and Singleton were just telling the truth.

    • groans says:

      WOW! What a fascinating and intelligent discussion (at least the first 13 1/2 minutes … I’ll finish listening later). Thank you!

  145. ay2z says:

    And….. this …. (thx Papa)

    • LLMPapa says:

      LOL, you’re FAST!

    • Rachael says:

      Papa, thanks for doing this, but honestly – unless someone has a hearing problem, there is no need for different sound filters for background noise reduction or any special processes. It is coons, as plain as day.

      I told you – from the start I tried my hardest to hear “goons” because the bleeding of the sounds before it (fuckinG-oons) would make sense, but even with that, I could not for the LIFE of me hear anything but C plain as day.

      And punks is just laughable. How you can get a p sound – but even if you can somehow, unk is so different from oon that well – I know my ex used to joke about my “highly developed ear muscles” from years of medical transcription, but it takes NO special listening skills, NO special processes to hear what is said as plain as day there.

      And I am SO angry with myself. I kept getting upset about that over and over and people (here – people HERE) would say let it go with punks, it still shows ill will, he’s still being tried, etc…

      I didn’t want to let it go then, but did reluctantly because there were a few fish in that kettle to fry, but I’m still mad that I did.

      One of GZ’s “friend” even pointed out that “coons” isn’t a term used anymore so and some blah blah crap about it but that is kind of the point. I mean it is one of those terms that even if perhaps isn’t used anymore, everyone knows what it is and that it is a racist term, and PRECISELY because it isn’t used so much today, the fact that he said it is totally racist. I mean someone who isn’t racist would NOT use that term. He didn’t say, “these black guys, they always get away,” which would still show profiling, but not “racism” necessarily, just an observation; but when someone says coon, there is no question what that is.

  146. Fight Fan says:

    good writeup..you articulated my jumble of thoughts into coherent conclusions..bravo.

  147. Ms.X says:

    Perhaps this doesn’t matter much, but when I was making observations (and Tasha too) some of you all were super critical. The case really looked corrupt to me & a few others, but unless one was throwing glitter & rainbows, many of you all didn’t want to hear it. The real or implied sensorship even included referring to people as trolls because they weren’t being positive enough for you. You didn’t seem open to different opinions or observations that weren’t positive enough for you, so I just stopped posting. Maybe you all will consider this and be more open to differing opinions of basically like-minded people. We all came here because we know Trayvon was murdered and we wanted to see him get justice. Sometimes I wondered if we were watching the same trial. I understand how people wanted to have great hope & optimism. I wanted to have it too but am not one to lie to myself. I tried to defer to those who know the law when I don’t, but still had to call it like I saw it. It just seemed so theatrical & the “prosecution” seemed so half assed. I had to stop watching because I felt like I was having visceral, physiological reaction to the miscarriage of justice I was witnessing. I ended up either following it on twitter or muting the defense so I wouldn’t have to hear yet another lie or smear from omara. Even though I saw it coming, I was devastated by the verdict. I cried for two days & became quite depressed. I was really, really mad at God. I prayed so hard for the parents & for justice. I joined my prayers to the prayers of all the others. The result is legalized genocide. Its back to the 1930’s for us, where you can just kill Black people and say you were afraid of them. It is so scary. I feel we must boycott the states 1 x 1 for as long as it takes. I hope that as many people as possible will boycott any company or product headquartered or manufactured in FL. The Montgomery Bus Boycott was successful because the company suffered financially. Please participate if you can. Please Try not to sensor people because they aren’t seeing things exactly your way and you judge them to be negative because of it.

    • concernedczen says:

      Thanks Ms. X. It is amazing how people were attacking others and calling them “trolls” because they weren’t acting as cheerleaders for the clearly corrupt prosecution and clearly corrupt Judge Nelson.

      As soon as she dismissed H13, I knew the fix was in.

    • Aunt Bea says:

      Oh, Ms. X, how very correct you are.

      Although I appreciate this blog, I felt the “butterflies and roses” that were strongly encouraged here was naive, at the very least.

      The owner’s of this blog have experienced the legal system up close and personal. It is NOT, EVER a level playing field.

      Has no one learned anything from their trials and tribulations?

      Perhaps “Frog Gravy” has diluted the actual events that plunged it’s author into the world from which it has sprung. IDK

      Now, what to do with those playing cards?

      Same shit, different jurisdiction.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      While I wanted to be positive about the trial, I didn’t think the suppression of differing opinions or inferring that these were written by trolls was appropriate.

    • type1juve says:

      How right you are! I simply stopped commenting for a while for fear of being accused of being a troll. There were many things not quite “right” with the way the prosecution handled the case early on in the trial. I knew it was over for sure when they allowed West to treat Rachel so poorly on the stand. Neither JN nor the prosecution did anything to protect her from West. There is no way in hell that would have been allowed to happen to a white witness. Even so, I thought it was obvious to the jury that Fogen was guilty. There was plenty of evidence, the jury ignored it and let a murderer go free. I don’t even know how to feel right now. I have felt rage, sadness, depression, hatred and disgust since the verdict. I’m not naive, I know racism is alive and well as I have experienced it plenty of times for myself. I guess I just expected justice to prevail in a case that is so transparent.

  148. Mary says:

    that was so satisfying to read, i feel like a cigarette now.

  149. MDH says:

    Keep in mind that JN and the prosecutor get elected in a county wherein denial of racism and the meme “blacks always play the race card” is the order of the day.

    IOW, they chickened out.

  150. gblock says:

    I can think of three or four possible reasons why BDLR and the prosecution in general might have felt that the issue of Fogen’s racism might be difficult to turn into a winning strategy.

    First, did Judge Nelson’s rulings make it really difficult to do so effectively? I seem to remember that Judge Nelson only allowed a sample of about 5 police 911 or NEN calls to be entered into evidence. Is that correct? Keep in mind that this could keep racial patterns from being established clearly. If he made, say, about 40 calls and 8 or 10 of them were about black people, then (given that RATL is about 20% black, as I have read recently) this would be within the range of what one might expect and therefore not strong evidence of racism. Was the jury told how many of the calls were about black people?

    Also, was the prosecution prevented from calling as witnesses some of the people who were harassed by Fogen?

    Second, were there any other judicial rulings (related to the one that prohibited using the phrase ” racial profiling”) that explicitly or in effect prevented the prosecution from discussing factors related to racism or racial profiling?

    Third, people who are non-blatantly racist are typically in denial about the continued existence and continuing effects of racism. To point out possible racism to them is to make them uncomfortable in having to deal with their own racism. BDLR may have decided that it would be difficult to turn this into a winning strategy and that it might be more workable to soft-pedal it by talking about profiling based on the demographics of perpetrators of previous crimes in the neighborhood.

    Fourth, and I hope less likely, maybe BDLR himself has some subtle racism that he was having trouble facing up to.

    Please understand, I’m not excusing any bad behavior, but I also think that we should not blindly hurl accusations.

    • Malisha says:

      The accusations are not blind. They are not being hurled. Most of us, right down to me (and I am very very VERY cynical and never trust anybody associated with the courts) put our faith in BDLR because we kept telling ourselves we did not know his strategy and ultimately he was going to do what had to be done. YET at the same time we were painfully aware that his FIRST assignment was not to convict; his FIRST assignment was to protect the SPD at all costs no matter what. NOT just the SPD but also Wolfinger’s office. We saw that and then it became horribly obvious when he questioned Serino.

      Serino has a family to support? Oh well then let’s just go ahead and condone what we KNOW he did. When Professor first wrote about Serino’s perfidy I didn’t believe it; I believed he was walking a very careful tightrope and that he would come through for the truth in the end. He did not. WHy not?

      Could be: He really did not want to see Fogen charged, but something happened to make him waver back and forth for a few weeks or a few months so he did equivocal things and gave off mixed messages;

      Could be: He really DID want to see Fogen charged but something happened to scare him into line (and if it was the idea that his career would be in shambles, then he’s more a coward and a wus than Fogen and anything that happens to him is not bad enough);

      Could be: He wanted to see Fogen charged but after that, his mind was not strong enough to really understand what was going on around him and he didn’t have enough of the human quality in him to sort out his own feelings and do right;

      Could be: Baez brokered a deal for him with West and O’Mara and other very influential entities. He’ll be collecting on his end of the deal soon, in that case. I hope somebody gets real scared of him and stands their ground, if that’s the case.

      Ultimately it doesn’t matter what caused Serino to become the eunuch in Fogen’s misshapen harem. He lied, committed misfeasance and malfeasance, committed perjury, was corrupt, IS CORRUPT, and is actually dangerous, although we will never know how. Family to support? They can make money off his book and they all know it. Or they’re already flush with the money ALEC and NRA have funneled to them laundered through the Peter Pan Network O’Mara and West set up.

      • LeaNder says:

        I didnā€™t believe it; I believed he was walking a very careful tightrope and that he would come through for the truth in the end. He did not. WHy not?

        Malsiha, you know I love you, but maybe there was a big set up behind closed doors against him that surfaced during deposition? Maybe? With the exception of Randy Smith, not sure about that one. He made Fogen talk during the reenactment. I read that completely wrong before I heard the argument by defense that he may have possibly been on Serino’s side. At least only these two names are mentioned, who may have been against letting Fogen simply go.

        Don’t forget the big-conspiracy-inside-SPD narrative against Fogen that defense spread. Look at their argument e.g. in the write of certiorari. Now Serino obviously from their conspiracy-against-Fogen perspective was at the center.

        Why do you think he needed a lawyer? Apparently no one else inside SPD did need one.

        • LeaNder says:

          Sorry for forgetting to mark your quote.and responding so emotionally that I even misspell your name. Sorry.

          • Malisha says:

            No problem. And no problem disagreeing with me or pointing out stuff I have missed. I felt that Serino was basically honest, and that he was going to do the right thing. I kept waiting for HIS testimony and thought he was going to be the key to the case. But when I saw him cave and feed the beast, I realized my faith in him had been misplaced. He did cave; he did feed the beast; the blame cannot be thrown off him or kept off him IMO. Did the prosecution throw it by not asking him the questions they should have? Yes. Did he work for the defense, though? Yes. He is a dirty cop. Perhaps he is not dirty enough to be top-dirty-cop in Sanford, but he’s dirty enough. Remember, his is a sacred duty. If he is not the worst of the dirty cops, that does not cure the infection or save the limb. In my book, the gangrene is enough in him to need amputation. Dirty cops can always find jobs in the private sector; surely any number of racist companies would be pleased to give him work at a higher salary than the taxpayers have paid him; he should take his place with them. I wouldn’t spit on the best part of him.

          • LeaNder says:

            I watched it again, Malisha, the story is more complicated that it seems.

            At one point BDLR made him state that yes, he would have liked to really challenge him again.

            Maybe he is not interested to make more money by working in the private sector and make more money.

            I prefer Serino to Osterman anytime. I doubt Serino would work for a fraud.

            I’ll watch him and Singleton carefully again. Let’s just agree to disagree. This is simply a topic on which I never agreed. Just as I never once believed Shellie would inform on Fogen, and just as I never believed that Fogen chased with seversl others some of which were whispering inside his car, or whatever it was that supposedly happened there.

            I am tired and I have a lot to do next week.

      • looneydoone says:

        Malisha,
        check your mail !!!!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        In Serino’s defense – he didn’t have the case long. He didn’t have all the knowledge we have at our fingertips. He had to act somewhat blindly with what he had and on intuition. He did more or less convey that he was a little suspicious of Fogen’s story but couldn’t find much evidence to refute it.

      • groans says:

        I’m with you, Malisha. I’ve seen what I’ve seen. And I’m DONE with trying to be an apologist for BDLR, Serino, or anyone else.

      • aussie says:

        Malisha, sorry this does not make sense
        “… Family to support? They can make money off his book and they all know it. Or theyā€™re already flush with the money ALEC and NRA have funneled ..”

        Serino will not be making money from Fogen’s book or money funnelled from ALEC. C’mon.

        Being UNDER DURESS is NOT BEING CORRUPT. Corruption is doing the wrong thing on purpose because of WANTING TO. Doing something reluctantly, under threat, to the minimal degree the threateners will accept, is not corruption. The system may be the corrupt, many of the individuals in it not.

        The mess will never be cleaned up if we don’t get very very accurate about who and what to blame.

        Or of course we can say threats and duress count for nothing. So a woman raped at gunpoint was NOT RAPED, she had sex willingly (and committed adultery willingly, if married) because she DID IT and it doesn’t count she did it UNDER THREAT. So she’s a slit. (This is the Sharia interpretation, yeah, let’s go with that in 21st Century USA).

        Whistleblower protection laws nothwithstanding, whistleblowers get fired, evicted, threatened, their kids and families attacked etc etc. Telling the “truth” in this one case won’t help clean up SPD anyway and it is not the job of this murder trial to achieve that, anyway.

        The only “truth” Serino cold have told, extra, about this case was that he had recommended charges and had been overruled — which the overrulers can continue to claim was only for insufficient evidence. So nothing to be gained. HE cannot give evidence about WHY they overruled him, as it is highly unlikely they said “because the victim is black” or “because the killer’s father is my friend”.

        • Malisha says:

          Sorry, I completely disagree. Being corrupt is based upon the definition of one’s actions and one’s standards (as the person filling the particular office), NOT upon the condition of duress or the mental state of the corrupt official.

          If I am an official and I act corruptly because I want to support my family, does that change the definition of the corruption I have done? Not in the least. Was my personal culpability as great if I did the wrong thing for a less nefarious reason? Perhaps. But think of it. Is there ANY act of corruption that I could not excuse, as a public official, if one were to take into consideration the fact that I might suffer negative consequences if I DID THE RIGHT THING?

          We just plain cannot have any law, and cannot have any standards, if we say that a cop can act wrongfully, and KNOWINGLY wrongfully, so long as he is worried that correct and honest action will bring him some negative consequences. Under those theories we would never have whistle-blowers and we would never have ANY correction for ANY act of corruption ANYWHERE in government.

          Also, there is a victim of ever act of corruption everywhere in government, no matter how small that act is, no matter how remote the victim is from the corruption. Someone is a bit corrupt in a state agency giving permits for some land disturbance? Victimless crime perhaps? Not really. Somebody suffered some loss or some problem because of the corruption. Who? Who cares? Probably a powerless person, or the corruption would not have occurred.

          In Serino’s case, so he KNOWS Fogen should be charged with murder yet he works with the defense to get him off, and then, down the line, when Fogen IS charged with murder, he works with the defense to get him acquitted. Victim? Naw, faggedaboudit, no victim. After all Trayvon Benjamin Martin is already dead, right? No victim. No harm no foul, right?

          WRONG. It was the corrupt officials who fixed the felony charges against Fogen when he assaulted the ATF officer who made it possible for Fogen to get a CCW license, who made it possible for him to kill Trayvon Martin that night.

          ACTS of CORRUPTION are not without negative consequences on our entire society. Serino — I was his defender when Professor wrote his piece castigating him back a couple of months — Serino — I had faith in him, I thought he was ultimately going to do what was required of him legally and morally. HE DID NOT. Serino is guilty of the problems we now face in this country. I personally think EVERYTHING will go wrong from here on out. I personally think we stand at a point now where our country can either retreat from the brink or fall over it into one of the worst fascist states that history has ever seen. ANd I think the name “CHRISTOPHER SERINO” should take its place on the DUNGHEAP of historical cowards, right next to NEVILLE CHAMBERLAIN.

        • Malisha says:

          The woman being raped example you give is a logical fallacy and a false equivalency. Serino was not being raped; he was possibly being threatened but only with negative consequences, not at gunpoint or knife-point and he was not in danger of being raped. We are not talking about someone going along with being RAPED or fighting and being KILLED. We are talking about someone who works for the taxpayers and whose job it is to investigate homicides and do clean and honest police work. The fact that when you work for a corrupt system, corruption is a course of action that is less dangerous to you professionally and financially than honest and clean work may be is NOT an excuse for corruption.

          Money from NRA, ALEC, anybody else who is corrupt? You say to me, “c’mon”? I say to you: “c’mon.” Are you really of the opinion that people in high places do not really do bad things? And do you think any of them would think for a minute that the financial reward of a cop who did their bidding in protecting a true American’s right to kill some thug is a bad thing to do? Where have you been?

          • aussie says:

            There is zero evidence Serino was bought or paid off. Or that NRA ALEC etc invested anything in this trial. Suspicions you can have; claiming them as almost certain truth is too close to conspiracy theory to be worth wasting time on.

            1: at the scene he was told “what happened” by other officers
            2: at the first interview he didn’t know of the NEN call and at no interview did he know about Rachel
            3: he three times wanted to charge BUT three times got refused… that is how the system works, it is NOT his final decision. There was no “yet he works with the defense to get him off,” to get him off, there was no “defense” at that time
            4: if he later learned FACTUAL information (as opposed to rumours) of outside interference in the decision to not charge, the worst he is guilty of is not becoming a whistleblower. There is no evidence he KNOWS (as opposed to guesses) anything to blow a whistle about. This is not corruption.
            5: if he’s been in any way warned off to stop trying to dig out such, and got demoted to push the message home that is still NOT CORRUPTION.
            6: evidence can be given only in response to questions. HE WAS NOT ASKED. The “at the time” and “among other things” statements CLEARLY SIGNAL he could and would say more IF ASKED. Not his fault they didn’t.
            7: how did he “work with the defence to get him acquitted”?
            he was subpoenaed to be a defence witness and answered what he was asked. IF he wasn’t properly cross-examined that again is not his fault. He actually called a liar Singleton who claimed Tracy had said it’s not his son screaming.

            So, he interviewed someone in a way that kept him talking, got enough to want to charge him, was over-ruled by superiors, answered just what was asked to both sides that called him as a witness. Where’s the corruption? He didn’t blurt out, unasked, allegations and rumours he may have heard. Where’s the corruption?

            For that to be calling for “hard time” because he’s “a dirty cop” is moving into 20-years-for-a-planted-baggie territory which is what is REALLY wrong with the system….. throwing around accusations, calling names and demanding top severity penalties for every damn little thing that may not even have happened. .

            “..WRONG. It was the corrupt officials who fixed the felony charges against Fogen when he assaulted the ATF officer..” ????

            Who? what officials? what proof? has nobody else ever in history had a charge dropped if they went to diversion? isn’t this actually a normal routine way to handle certain offences? Yep it sure LOOKED fixed taken in context of what else he’s gotten away with. But that’s not proof. Certainly not proof against anyone in THIS case.

            TWO different things happened here
            1: a culture or atmosphere that let them take the killer’s side, with or without having internal friends. Some simple underlying unspoken racism might be involved. Manifested as sloppy superficial work probably also done many times from laziness or plain sloppiness.

            2: instructions or pressure from outsiders to let him go. This is where true corruption enters into it. But there are only rumours, no hard evidence who did and said what to whom when. This knowledge is spread out among a lot of people so it’s unrealistic to expect any one of them to come out with the story. A Federal investigation might piece it together. Or not.

            Let’s stop calllng people dirty without proof. It’s like calling people thugs.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @aussie

            thanks. i tend to agree with you. do i hate this verdict? yup. do i think that SPD was inept and likely corrupt? yup.

            i do draw the line at speculating on ‘what really happened’ in absence of facts. i feel no need to form conjecture to make any individual involved, including zimmerman and family more evil than facts have already proved.

            do i think the prosecution did a great job in the courtroom? not particularly — nor do i think the defense did. i just don’t feel the need to come up with my own pet theories on how or why mistakes were made. that feels like treehouse thinking to me and i won’t go there. this does not make me naive, it just makes me prudent when it comes to facts and speculation.

          • Malisha says:

            I totally resist the idea that we should not be making guesses about what made the individuals in the police department and elsewhere misfunction in this case. Until and unless there is a complete and I mean COMPLETE and THOROUGH investigation by DOJ of every single suspicious item that took place, that didn’t make sense, that resulted in or resulted FROM the SPD (at any level on any day in any way) deliberately helping this murderer get off after he obviously chose to target a defenseless kid and kill him (or chose to target the kid and “bring him in” for prosecution but, failing that, had to accidentally kill him for non-cooperation and non-submissiveness) I think it is a POSITIVE thing, NOT a NEGATIVE thing, to exercise the most active and most intense guesswork possible. Until there is a valid and honest investigation into what happened I think it is GOOD FOR US and GOOD FOR such as Serino and Singleton and Lee and Wolfinger and Nelson and Corey and BDLR and others including Kokopelli and Shellie and Tim Smith and on and on and on. I think figuring out what MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED will be one of the most valuable things we can do until and unless we see that there is a serious effort on the part of someone to either FIND OUT what DID happen or go ahead and stand up honestly and tell ALL OF IT and I mean ALL OF IT and clear their own names.

            NOBODY is preventing Serino from clearing his name. Let him respond to these rumors about him. Let him tell us what REALLY happened and why he is NOT dirty. Let him defend his honor and the honor of the SPD. Because he has not done that yet. And I accuse him.

            I ACCUSE HIM. I accuse all of the dirty cops who gave us not only this acquittal, but who actually gave us this MURDER. And they have given us a lot of other murders, whose names we never learned, just as we would never have learned Trayvon Martin’s name but for Rev Sharpton and Crump and Jackson and Jealous.

            I accuse. Without evidence, but with INFERENCE, I do accuse. Let these mamby pambies stand up to my accusations and show how innocent they really are.

          • aussie says:

            J’Accuse, eh?

            The original was stronger on facts and lighter on name-calling. Throwing “dirty” and “corrupt” on all and sundry and demanding they clear their names? How does that differ from throwing “thug” and demanding they prove innocence?

            Where’s the one rule for everybody?

            Or are we saying the end justifies the means?

            A certain amount of emotional expression is understandable, in the light of the shock this verdict was to all of us. But In my book rationality involves evidence, not accusations. On that basis, the verdict was not rational. Adding more irrationality is not going to lead to progress.

          • Malisha says:

            Aussie, in furtherance of my response to your continuing critique of my comment and of my name-calling against Serino and other dirty cops (etc.) involved in this appalling and obvious cover-up of a murder, you said:

            Jā€™Accuse, eh?

            The original was stronger on facts and lighter on name-calling. Throwing ā€œdirtyā€ and ā€œcorruptā€ on all and sundry and demanding they clear their names? How does that differ from throwing ā€œthugā€ and demanding they prove innocence?

            Whereā€™s the one rule for everybody?

            How does it DIFFER from throwing “thug” and demanding they prove innocence?

            Uh … you really asked that?
            OK I will really answer:

            1. I did not choose an anonymous person who had done nothing wrong, call him a “dirty cop” and demand that he clear his name.

            2. I did not target someone I thought looked like a “dirty cop,” then KILL HIM, then insist that he had done something to me that forced me to kill him in order to save my own life.

            3. I did not decide to call someone a “dirty cop” without the slightest bit of evidence that he was in fact a DIRTY COP.

            4. I did not make this whole thing up out of prejudice, racism, hatred, bigotry, and self-aggrandizing desire to become a big-shot in a little sewer.

            5. I did not decide that Serino was dirty when there were early signs that he probably was. I did not side immediately with those who criticized him (such as the Professor) when ALL he had done was to tell witnesses WHAT HAPPENED rather than asking them what THEY witnessed. Only after his corrupt dishonest conduct AFTER he realized that Fogen should be charged with murder and after Fogen WAS charged with murder did I finally make up my own mind that he was a dirty cop.

            Saying I am doing to poor Serino what O’Mara did to Trayvon Martin is a false equivalency of the worst kind and I don’t intend to agree with it, acknowledge it or fail to object to it. And as to my using “J’accuse,” let me point out that SAYING Dreyfus was guilty because he could not prove innocence would NOT be the same as saying that those who corruptly framed and destroyed him were rotten filthy antiSemites unless they could show that they weren’t.

            I do not agree that accusations, and even very strong and vulgar and vicious accusations, against someone who HAS victimized an innocent person (or more than one) in ways that are perfectly apparent to anyone with half a brain

            equal

            accusations against someone who has done NOTHING WRONG and who is being accused for the simple purpose of justifying the harm — or even the outright MURDER — of that person being falsely accused.

            I did not falsely accuse Serino.
            Perhaps he has really good explanations for what he did.
            I seriously doubt it.
            Surely his explanation is NOT that he was raped at knifepoint.
            He gave up his integrity and he worked AGAINST the prosecution of a criminal whom he himself said should be charged with murder.
            He worked for the defense of a murderer and according to B-37, his work on behalf of the murderer was a major cause of the acquittal of that murderer.

            My calling Serino a dirty cop and hoping for his severe punishment is not only justifiable but justified, not only in “self-defense” of my right to see things as they ARE, but of my right to be an American who has some hope of demanding justice and righteousness from the society in which she has lived all her life and to which she has contributed major efforts for social benefit.

            I’m tired. I’m tired of explaining why I am as angry as I am and as I have EVERY RIGHT TO BE and of expressing it as well as I possibly can, at people like Serino who STEAL FROM ME my ability to realize the American dream in the country of my birth and the country to which I have paid taxes all my life. I want to feel for a minute before my death that I have not been cheated by the likes of Chris Serino so HE can support his family!

    • pat deadder says:

      Is NBC going to bring up the other calls and what about fogen’s sealed phone records can’t DOJ get them.

    • LeaNder says:

      gblock,concerning your first item, I don’t think Nelson kept anything out in the context of the calls. But fact is that they are not preserve audio files for long enough to enter all including the little black boy he reported on. That drew some attention here.

      They may well have entered all the calls they had were he reported black people. We actually do not have and never had many calls to start with for the above reason.

      ‘Which directly leads us to the lady in charge of records, which first had to leave and then finally was called again. There were some bench meeting surrounding that topic which we would need to know. Would we be able to get the transcripts?

      Could it be that Nelson ruled e.g. that they were not allowed to talk about the fact that on 2/2/2012 Zimmerman in fact followed the suspect with the “bomber hat” and called in again to report a new address: Taaffe’s house. Again one would need to have the bench meeting transcripts.

      In the closing argument defense argued very manipulative that Fogen had in fact also quite in tune with the good-character-evidence presented reported kids playing in the streets, alleging that defense had kept that out to trick them.

      To what extend can prosecution play as dirty as defense I am asking myself now. Maybe BDLR was so disillusioned about many arguments kept out that he was not irritated by Nelson mispronouncing his name twice but in fact realized that based on his knowledge of the bench encounters and the stage props defense would offer, including some of the jury members he was prevented to strike, he really would not stand a fair chance to get his point over.

      • No excuse.

        Rule 1: Never let them see you sweat.

        Rule 2: Never give up.

      • racerrodig says:

        “To what extend can prosecution play as dirty as defense I am asking myself now.”

        It’s the prosecution that usually plays dirty, that’s what is boggling our minds. They played it squeaky clean and close to the vest leading us to think they had an unbeatable hand.

        Go back to the Arias case, they beat the snot out of her on the stand, the same with the cop who was just convicted last month of murdering his wife and torching the house. Scott Peterson as well.

        I watched parts of several trials in which my dad was the arresting officer in a good bust or was part of the investigation. In every case the prosecutor had no mercy in the line of questioning other than with minor witnesses of the defendant and the states witnesses. One thing they always did was get every bit of info from their own witnesses that was needed.

        • LeaNder says:

          Yes, racer, but Serino, the dissenter in the SPD, as defense painted in in their motions, or the one that supposedly did never utter in all the meetings that he did not believe Fogen’s tale should have offered himself as sacrificial lamp to prove their case?

          Obviously defense had every other officer’s name involved on the scene on its witness list and already made sure every single one of them would have stated that they all agreed Fogen should never have been charged and that Serino’s Capias caught them by all by surprise. With one exception “maybe” Randy Smith, who got promoted pretty much the opposite from Serino. What hard evidence could he have offered for it from his own Capias? Remember he did not know of Rachel at that point. … He was desperately trying to find someone that witnessed the start of the fight but there was none.

          But now let’s join the gang and lets get his head? What for? Someone has to be the ultimate scapegoat, why not Serino? There is something really funny about this. You in fact seem to agree with all the righteous officers that thought he should never be charged. What exactly makes him worse then e.g. Santiago, Singleton’s boss. He was called too, wasn’t he? What exactly made Erwin who was called twice for deposition warn Fogen of Serino.

          Keep in mind, Wanger’s photo he seemingly did not even know about although Wagner accompanied him to the teacher the same night.

          This is witch hunt based on not much evidence. And I don’t like it. Why exactly single him out?

          I am wondering if I was caught in a big charade for public consumption only, in spite of Guy’s brilliant opening and closing speeches. but maybe even that was only meant to soothe our pains.

          I’ll shut up again. But funny anyway to see you agree with all the officers that support Fogen, something is really fishy with Serino. šŸ˜‰

          • racerrodig says:

            “You in fact seem to agree with all the righteous officers that thought he should never be charged. ”

            I hope you don’t mean me as in racer…….I never thought that. I was incensed he wasn’t charged from 8:00 PM 2/26/2012.

            I believe the Wagner photo was staged after 2/26 to be honest. There is 0 documentation on this pic. In NJ it never would have been allowed to be shown anywhere. I’ve been saying since last year the blood trails in that one and the SPD pictures that are documented don’t match. My computer guru went to great lengths to prove this as well.

            When I quoted the “play dirty” line I mean “play rough”

          • LeaNder says:

            Racer, concerning your scenario of Wagner’s photo. I am pretty sure you found it interesting that Jennifer Lauer had to somehow verify or legitimize it’s existence.

            It’s no doubt odd, and it strictly does not prove Trayvon struck his nose.

            What I am at the moment wondering is how and were The Waterman (h.t. Malisha) found a document for Serino’s deposition.

            I can search the gzlegalcase via Google search or the 18the circuit for that matter and nothing brings up this deposition:

            February 13, 2013[NOTE: This is Subpoena for Deposition, not a Notice of Deposition]
            2:00pm SPD Officer Christopher Serino

            It does not show on their twitter account either. The same happens when you search either site via a Google “site:'” search for the deposition of Singleton. I would love to know when that happened.

            There may be a mistake in this fast effort. But my suspicion is that Serino tried to avoid the depositon altogether by simply offering them his drafts via Baez. But i cannot find the related documents.

            This is somehow frustrating it makes me feel that they don’t need to show us everything and it does not need to be in the complete files either for one reason or the other maybe.

            One private question:
            your father is a police officer, can you ask him or tell me without asking him what search strategies I need to employ to find the specific laws that bind police officers in Florida. It would be easy to find that for every state over here for me, but I also admittedly know the legal context were to look for it in our own legal system.

            I tried to find this before, but I somehow don’t seem to be able to find anything.

            I am using the notifications interface, not easy to proofread on that tool. So forgive any typos or other errors in advance.

            I wrote a different response somewhere but only got a: Your comment could not be published note. And I don’t have time to write it again. šŸ˜‰

          • racerrodig says:

            My dad passed away last year. I don’t know if there are specific state laws other than what the laws are and local police dept policy.

          • LeaNder says:

            I hope you donā€™t mean me as in racer

            Nope, I know you better than that by now.

            But admittedly the only thing I somehow agreed with Unitron was that the SYG law seems to have made it harder for police to arrest immediately.

            Richard Hornsby put it somehow like: Before it was arrest first and ask questions later, after the change of the law police could not arrest anymore. they had to prove their case first.

            I like your petition but that may be the context that makes it difficult. What does your father say? Do you have the same type of ALEC/NRA inspired laws were you live?

          • racerrodig says:

            I can’t argue that the SYG law made it more difficult to arrest him that night but there were enough holes in his story from the jump he could have been arrested the next day, Tue the latest on the impossibility of the gun pull conditions and the pursuit aspect.

            My dad passed away on Christmas but in all likelihood he’d be supporting Fogen, sad as that is to say.

          • LeaNder says:

            Oh, sorry, racer, I did not know. Both my parents still live. I am very lucky in hindsight that they were both quite young.

          • racerrodig says:

            No problem. My dad was a good cop for the most part but a racist of the highest order. We battled over that topic forever.

          • Malisha says:

            He was not much of a dissenter.
            If he were in Germany in 1933 he would have been NO PROBLEM to the Nazis. None at all. I judge him harshly because anybody who puts any value on morality SHOULD judge him harshly. Shame on him SHAME SHAME!

        • Malisha says:

          I don’t even think they played it “squeaky clean.”
          I think they played it “collaborator.”

  151. MDH says:

    It is time for people of all color to unite and kick these hate spewing turds to the curb.

    Songwriters: HARRIS BB SEATON / KEN BOOTHE

    Let’s not quarrel, let’s not fight
    Let’s get together, we all can unite
    Then take off these chains from off our feet

    ‘Cause we gonna walk, we gonna walk
    Walk down freedom street
    Everybody knows we gonna walk, we gonna walk
    Walk, walk, walk, down freedom street

    Let me tell you people
    United we stand, divided we fall
    Respect your brothers, sisters and all
    Let’s not deal with illiteracy, work it out intelligently

    Lord, Lord, ’cause we gonna walk, we gonna walk
    Walk, walk, walk, down freedom street
    Everybody knows we gonna walk, we gonna walk
    Walk, walk, walk, down freedom street, dear, God, [Incomprehensible]

    Can’t see clearly ’cause I worked hard last night
    It must be a vision ’cause there’s no change in sight
    I see a big, big street, where all hands meet
    It must be freedom street, oh Lord, freedom street

    Everybody knows we gonna walk, we gonna walk
    Walk, walk, walk, down freedom street
    Everybody knows we gonna talk in the whole wide world
    As we go walkin’ slowly

    Walk, we gonna talk, we gonna walk, ah
    Let’s get together, Lord
    We gonna sing, we gonna shout
    Where we gonna walk

  152. LiveByTheGulf says:

    Florida Statutes 914.22 – Tampering with or harassing a witness, victim, or informant; penalties
    http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/florida/statutes/florida_statutes_914-22

    Seemed to be that West harassed or tampered with Rachael.
    Several prosecution witnesses did not show up i.e. rebuttal witnesses.
    Defense witnesses worked on the video including Dr De Maio and several other witnesses. MOM also was mentioned.

    Were there blatant offenses during the trial – so blatant that we shut it out because it was so unbelievable?

  153. pat deadder says:

    Mr leatherman you and Crane Station restore my faith in the human race along with posters here but you have had the courage to start the ball rolling.I have always said my Mother was the nicest person I ever knew.She went to Heaven in 2005 at the age of 81..Although she knew her Bible inside and out and was a Baptist she was not fire and brimstone person just follow the golden rule.So you are saying Trayvon after being victimized by fogen,spd,the defense,and proscecutors will now be victimized by the doj.This is a very gutless move by doj and an insult and danger for all black people.From an old white lady.

    • pat deadder says:

      I just wanted to add what is happening to me.I come from a very small Province.My family came there from Boston in early 1700;s.I moved to a bigger Province where there are people from all over the world.Anyway I hired a real estate agent to sell my house which he did.I have known him from waiting on him for 30 years.Oh yea he is from India.Well now I’m looking to buy another house and he is helping me.So the agent who is selling the house I was interested in said the neighbors were afraid I was Indian.I just said wow.I’m a slow thinker but after getting home I felt ashamed of myself for not saying something,anything.Like I wouldn’t want to live near people like that anyway IDK.We live in a strange world.

      • LBTG says:

        I am surprised that is happening in Canada.

        • pat deadder says:

          LBTG Don’t be surprised customers shock us everyday at work.It is a small majority but still.Our work place is a little United Nations.We as staff are stuck between a rock and a hard place to know how to deal with racist clients.I just tell them I like all nice people..

      • LeaNder says:

        I hear you Pat.

      • ay2z says:

        It happens everywhere.

        I’ve got an anecdote that is true, that was recalled when examining my own perspective of why this case has drawn my concerns as I am not black, not any visible minority, and I have no political agenda and am not a do-gooder. But I have experienced biases, and biases are biases, when based on false assumptions, ignorance, and when they apply some sort of ‘value’ to a human being because of things like race, ethnic background, age, gender, religion and other ways of putting someone into a cubby hole, you can bring an honest empathy and need to speak out, even if the perspective can never be from the individual in this case, nor those who are part of the larger fabric of race, in this case. But whatever misconceptions or inadequate understandings, those can be overcome and changed and adapted and the only way is to continue to be open, to change when you learn and gain new perspective, and to listen and to think.

        To the anecdote.

        About a small company owned and operated by immigrants to Canada.

        The immigrants were highly educated professionals, male, white and American. A letter arrived about a position with the company from a male associate of their profession from overseas. The letter came from a country in Africa.

        Assumption, the applicant must be black. The assumption was based on an extreme ignorance of what was going on in the world, how could they miss apartheid? How could these educated immigrants not know that a black person in South Africa at the time, had no right to be considered as a human being, never mind the right to vote, the rights to travel freely in their own country, the rights to not be shot down, tortured, for participating in any sort of ‘activism’ for change. Nevermind labour laws, or access to basic resources of life. It was in the news, the struggles were in the news, yet these professionals made an assumption that a black person native to Africa, could have not just a basic education, but an excellent education at the university, including professional school, all stated in the cover letter, as well as the person’s name.

        Well of course he must be black, he’s from the continent of Africa! The blatant racism came out in the coffee room, as the two professionals joked about the applicant, made it clear that the letter would never be acknowledged. The racism was so overwhelming that these professionals could not, would not, even bother to think about the situation, whether a person of colour was allowed any privileges or opportunity to ever get his education, become this professional. (and blacks were not the only coloured races in this country– ie: where did Ghandi get his start, wasn’t India).

        The professionals joked by saying they’d all be doing the ol’ soft shoe.

        What they did not consider, was not only was this applicant almost certainly white, he was likely of some privileged white class, and if so, he may have shared their views by being bred and raised as privileged generations of the Dutch colonists system of apartheid.

        Other than this one thing, you would never identify these folks as racist, but they were. It doesn’t take repeated examples to prove racism exists. Just the opportunity for it’s face to be shown.

        • ay2z says:

          But there is always the intent behind a remark, or a written thought, that may not be considered as insensitive, and may show lack of understanding, enough understandanding, the right perspective.

          That should be given the opportunity for the speaker, the writer, the person with a good human heart, to consider and learn, re-adjust. And assumptions on either side of a discussion, should be carefully placed. Race does not dictate racist held views, and there has to be enough tolerance to not put someone in the wrong pigeonhole.

          Clemente addressed this too.

          Racists, like junior, are the real race baiters. They are loud, obnoxious, attention grubbers who get themselves heard and promoted.

  154. diary73 says:

    I already emailed the Florida DOJ and emphasized that GZ DID NOT refer to Trayvon as an effin’ punk. HE SAID, “coons!” I encouraged them to seek the assistance of respected speech experts to confirm this, which should be quite easy to do.

    More people need to do the same.

    Serino knows he did not say, “Punks.” He says so while interviewing GZ.

    Look at Judge Nelson’s face when it is played in BDLR’s closing arguments. She also knows that he did not say, “Punks.”

    This needs to go viral, a link to GZ’s saying this and the words, “He did not say, “Punks.” That will speak volumes. That link also needs to be sent to the DOJ a million times.

    • Malisha says:

      Can anybody post a link to the NEN call that has been somewhat cleaned up or enhanced or something that plays well and can be slowed down at certain places? How do we get a copy of the enhanced version that various organizations (not, obviously, the FBI, who like to pretend Fogen was not a racist) have worked with using sophisticated equipment?

      I’m also interested in the part where Fogen allegedly says,

      “Dear God, these assholes, they always get away … but not on ME.”

      Anybody have it?

      • LeaNder says:

        Malisha, one of the things I remember from the Frye hearing and strictly it makes a lot sense to me technically is that there are limits to “cleaning up calls”. You would need some type of algorithm that can differentiate between speech and noise. You would in this scenario always need to rely on some type of however defined average speech. I wonder how that could be done considering our very, very different organically bases for speech production or specifics in articulation.

        I seem to be able to use a different setting in my earphone for the software for music and speech and that is about it. I have stopped to check it month ago when I bought the earphones, it simply makes no noticable difference.

        I was always very, very skeptical concerning this cleaned up versions type of arguments based on an admittedly not up to the state of art knowledge about acoustics which was obviously part of my lessons in physics on the lower levels.

        It’s true that some of the Serino interviews have strangely bad acoustics compared with Singleton. Now that we know that there was at least one video recording, i wonder if the bandwidth for voice is even more narrow there than on purely acoustical tapes, but I have no idea strictly what type of system they use. Or what else could have caused it.

      • Puck says:

        whonoze made this video last year about ‘coons’:

      • Lynn says:

        Malisha, around 1:40 in this version of the NEN you can hear the dear god part. He inhales while saying dear and exhales while saying god so mostly you hear god. I’m sure a cleaned up version exists but after this came out I went to listen to any NEN call and could hear the dear god.

      • Nef05 says:

        Here’s is the video of the CNN audiologists enhanced/isolated “coons” work.

        George Zimmerman’s 911 call: Audio enhanced

    • Elizabeth says:


      at 4.52 Nancy says “Play it right now!”

      • ay2z says:

        NG did this over a year ago, then never cut this idiot from her guest list, instead making use of him for ratings. We rally need to move on from this old stuff that has no, zero, nada, substance. It’s just a distraction, like the guest, just a distraction (of the racist variety).

  155. diary73 says:

    That would have been easy for speech experts to prove. Anyone knowing anything about phonics knows that he did not say “punks.”

  156. THE Shadow says:

    FINALLY!!! Someone with enough steel in their spine to call it what it is. I would say this post needs to go out before as many people as possible.

  157. diary73 says:

    I am so glad to see you write GZ’s words, “(effin) COONS,” and not, “Punks.” That was the biggest lie of the charging affidavit in order to qualify their speech expert.

    We now need to spread the truth through social media:

    He said “coons,” not “punks!”

  158. aussie says:

    * B37 — and I know who it is but nothing about her connections — was clearly a plant. The wagons will be circled and she’s not likely to be prosecuted, unless other jurors come forward with their versions of how they got to have their minds changed for them. Or unless she turns out to be a neighbour of O’Mara’s in Orlando.

    * Singleton — forget about the medals, she thought they were police service medals. So did many other people until some WW2 veterans saw her. That is squarely down to the SPD for using “repurposed” Amy disposal store ribbons instead of making up their own. Except it shows how little respect they have for people.

    * Serino — I think he’s the cleanest of the bunch. He and his family have to eat; a single man can maybe afford to risk his job for a principle. He looked itching to say more but he was never asked, because of the higher cover-up in the trial which only confirms for him what went on in the investigation. Coming clean now would be at least career suicide for him at this stage.

    * The prosecution gutted their own case.
    * they still don’t fully understand some of the FACTS or the meaning of them
    * they did not bring someone to tie the timelines together (which could have been done without involving race, if they really wanted to leave that out)
    * they failed to bring rebuttal witnesses, when they should have brought at least 4
    * when one witness inexplicably could not “make it” to respond to a SUBPOENA they should have had others
    * biggest mistake: to run the case on the defence’s terms, ie concentrate on the 70 seconds of the “fight” instead of starting where the trouble started, 6 minutes earlier. They kept showing how GZ had lied but utterly failed to show WHY (ie that he was stalking his victim).

    * you left out the Sheriff’s department — who let the jurors have more access to outsiders than if they’d been at home. Total travesty and this one MUST be investigated. Together with a list of who visited and when and for how long.

    * DOJ? some of their rules and procedures are IMHO unconstitutional and a further symptom of what’s wrong throughout the”just us” system. Jail for telling an immaterial lie, trial by ambush, treason charges and general harassment of returned veterans………they’re not clean, either, they’re just more powerful and we know what absolute power does.

    HOWEVER while it exists, it would be a good move by the Government to get them involved, except that could open a bigger can of worms and spray danger on a lot of other people. This case has given wings to a monster that woke up in 2008 and it hasn’t even really started snarling yet.

    ===================
    All that said, I do not believe the SHOOTING was racial. The profiling and resultant stalking was race based, leading to a violation of Trayvon’s civil rights through unlawful detention.

    I do not believe the killing was motivated by hatred for Trayvon’s race. The motive for that was clearly GZ’s need to cover his earlier crime.

    The original SPD coverup was “business as usual old boys’ club” with a heavy smear of racial prejudice (probably also business as usual)..

    The defence’s atrocious demonising of the innocent victim was totally racial — but it’s also unlikely people like the denizens of CTH would ever be charged.

    • LeaNder says:

      Second attempt to answer. First time your comment could not be posted.

      I guess I am too tired to write the whole story again. Well maybe I try to write it somewhere else so it does not disappear into the ether again. šŸ˜‰ Also trying to keep it short.

      Not short but different anyway, I guess

      *****************************************

      I kept wondering why I could never join into the Singleton adoration here, I guess I was pretty neutral concerning her, but that stopped definitively when I saw her during the trial. Singleton was really only good when working with Serino. ā€žNo, that wasn’t anything near a challengeā€œ, ā€žNo, not at that pointā€œ (contradictions). For whatever reason no one here ever blamed Singleton for the time line but everybody blamed Serino. Fact is it was done by her.

      Something else I keep wondering about. Willis mentioned the google map she gave to GZ. In which GZ supposedly/apparently drew a different location where he saw Trayvon first. I have never seen that map. And I am still wondering. Does anyone have a link or can tell me what discovery material I missed?

      My basic impression was she was absolutely well aligned with the more private voice or good character witnesses for GZ. Adding selective little anecdotes about Fogen that ultimately helped defense.

      Not sure what you mean about the medals, I did not pay too much attention on that stuff. I only remember that up to Donally defense used quite a bit of military imagery and personal. Fighting the good fight on the homeground? I do not believe Donally’s tale for one second. Did he listen to the Frye hearing by the way? Or did he get a short summary of it’s contents from GZ?

      Considering rebuttal witnesses. They may have been to a certain extend been hindered by the series of good character witnesses for which they seemingly were not preparrd. I don’t understand exactly but rebuttal means rebutting the matters preseneted. Voice, good character?

      Which leaves us with the fact that prosection ignored some vague offers by Serino, ā€žNot at that pointā€œ and for whatever reason did not want the jury to hear that Serino had in fact filed his Capias shortly after Lee claimed there was no reason to prosecute.

      I was never fond of the argument that Serino tried to influence people. He obviously was influenced himself by the officers on the scene that briefed him when he arrived. I have written this before in the teacher’s case he may have only somehow wanted her to calm down. Big mistake. There is a reason why police officers don’t talk with people beyond asking questions. It can be spun endlessly. But in Serino’s case it seems to show he has a heart which I didn’t see in Singleton, nor in her medals either. Whatever they were.

      Now interestingly Serino told us he wasn’t even aware that Singleton was present. Remember Leon Ciesla (sp?) who wrote an appendix to his report the same day Serino, seemingly under pressue had to add the Tracy story to his Capias? Who are all the people defense claimed where present at that point, and why did they choose Singleton to tell the story. I would need to go back and look at the motions that contain partial deposition transcripts the dfense spread.

      Did Singleton need a lawyer concerning her deposition or was she well aligned with all the others defense could have called to rebut whatever Serino dared to utter? Was prosecution aware of that?

      For whatever reason Raimondo has left a really vague impression on my mind. Except that he was bold as West. Wasn’t he. But absolute blank concerning his statements. Didn’t he surface in the larger argument, Serino never showed us he did not agree with us during our many meetings?

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Here is an article about the military ribbons Singleton wore. One indicates the WWII Army of Occupation; another, Defense Distinguished Service; another, the Air Force Combat Readiness; another, Philippine Independence; another, Selective Marine Corps Reserve.

        So, she was in the Army, the Air Force, and the Marines.

        • colin black says:

          Yup its a fact an you can tell that to the MARINES.!

        • groans says:

          Thank you so much, Cercando Luce! I had no idea what the professor was referring to about Singleton’s ribbons. This is so surreal that it’s almost unbelievable.

          I say “almost,” because the Sanford Police Department (as well as its personnel who were involved in the Trayvon murder response, investigation, and trial testimony) has demonstrated that bizarre and corrupt conduct is such the NORM there that NOTHING about that sorry excuse for a “law enforcement” agency is unbelievable any more.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Cercando –

            @Groans –

            Was there any explanation by Singleton or Sanford PD as to what meritorious service or action was performed or given by Singleton, to earn the various ribbons SPD co-opted?

            Plenty bush league of SPD to do this, but each individual must have represented “something” to SPD as they “recycled” them.

            Just what was it?

            Also, I understood Singleton joined SPD after a stint in the military.

            Were any of the ribbons legitimately awarded to her for her US military service?

          • groans says:

            @ PirhanaMom – Sorry, but I don’t know anything about her military medals or police honors. I don’t recall that it was discussed during trial, but I didn’t see every minute of the trial either.

    • Nef05 says:

      Re: Serino-
      I agree. I think he has a retirement and family to protect. I think he was trying to calm the teacher, and I believe what Austin’s mom claims he said about it not being self-defense and them having to prove it. We know he wrote at least three capias requests from the beginning, 2 for murder two and one for manslaughter. I believe he was the one who released the CCTV video of fogen in the salley port at SPD, to the media, and that he was subsequently demoted for it. I believe he didn’t say anything in the meetings because he already knew what he knew, but had already been warned to toe the line, so what was the point?

      But, most of all, I believe he wanted to say what he knew, on the stand, but he needed some cover – and the state never gave it to him. Serino needed to be asked fact based questions with yes/no answers. Questions he could explain to his dept. as “I was asked under oath. I could not lie.” Questions like:

      1. Did you see a conflict in where the defendant said he first saw Trayvon on the map, the first time he was asked and where he said he first saw the VICTIM the subsequent times he was asked? (Yes)
      2. Did you see a conflict in where the defendant first stressed the altercation took place and he fell to the ground and the place he said he fell to the ground in the walkthru? (Yes)
      3. Did either of those places correlate to the place where police found the body of the VICTIM, and the evidence of where the altercation actually took place? (No)
      4. Did you see an inherent conflict in the defendant’s statement that he was “too afraid” to roll down the window and speak to the VICTIM, and the subsequent action the defendant took when he jumped out of his car to follow the VICTIM? (Yes)
      5. Did you see an inherent conflict in the defendant’s statement that it was “not his job” to identify himself to the VICTIM, and his subsequent action of jumping out of his car to FOLLOW the VICTIM? (Yes)
      6. Did you see a conflict in the defendant’s statement that he claimed to wait 84 seconds, in the rain, before walking back to his truck, because he was scared to walk it in the dark, when that was the very same route he had taken less than 3 minutes prior under the same lighting conditions? (Yes)

      So on and so forth…

      Serino TOLD the BDLR on the stand that he wanted to talk. He couldn’t have been more clear. When BDLR asked Serino “Did you think he exaggerated his injuries?” Serino’s response was “Among other things”.

      Serino could only have made that statement in reference to two things – either he thought fogen had “exaggerated” about OTHER things, as well, OR, he thought that the description of “exaggeration” was “among other things” including outright lying. I honestly believe that when Serino brought up “pathological liar”, it was for a reason. That reason was, this veteran homicide detective saw the same things we did. Whatever you may believe about Serino, he’s not stupid and any detective without an agenda KNEW fogen was full of BS. Unfortunately, O’Mara (who is not stupid either, unethical as hell, but not stupid) ruled out “pathological liar” in his question, leaving only one answer instead of Serino’s choice. I blame Serino on the prosecution. (JMHO)

      Singleton is a different matter. She seemed outright hostile to the prosecution. Given her questioning of fogen, I can only assume that she was also protecting herself – and as a female LEO, she was far more vulnerable than Serino.

      All that said (Phew!) I hope they BOTH have trouble sleeping at night. Law enforcement is supposed to be more than a paycheck, and if you are not going to stand up and do what’s right for the innocent victims of violent crime, and you KNOW they are innocent victims, you’re no better than the criminals who violate them in the first place. Worse, because the criminals haven’t taken an oath to “serve and protect”!

    • groans says:

      Maybe I’m a minority hard-ass here, but I don’t cut either Serino or Singleton any slack. They had a choice of doing either the right thing or the wrong thing when they testified at trial. They chose the wrong thing. It’s that simple.

      Sure, they had their reasons. ALL corrupt people have their reasons!

      Both had plenty of opportunity to provide testimony about incriminating facts and impressions, but they opted not to do so. Serino was the worse in that regard, because “back in the day” he reportedly believed that CAC should be charged with the crime of second degree murder and/or manslaughter.

      • concernedczen says:

        agreed

      • cielo62 says:

        groans~ don’t cut them any slack. They were imperfect vessels that cracked when the strain was on. They were tested and found lacking. They deserve every snide remark, every demotion, every iota of karma that this verdict has brought. Their duty was to protect and serve, and they failed in BOTH.

        ________________________________

    • Rachael says:

      Interesting. Thanks.

    • LeaNder says:

      Thanks, interesting smokee, I hope there will be a host of others looking deeply into the case and the trial. i wish myself I had the bench meeting transcripts, the arguments and results.

    • Thanks for the link. I think they have a great idea and teaching tool to review, analyze and critique the trial.

      What a great way to learn. Beats the hell out of reading a dull and boring casebook.

      • looneydoone says:

        Professor,
        Please check your e-mail

      • Tzar says:

        it’s hard to critique the trial when the behavior of the prosecution was so awfully biased, they did not behave like proper or normal prosecutors, who always go for the kill under normal circumstances. I tried hard to see the positive light in their behaviors during the case, even conceding that-despite pulling their punches- they might still be able to get manslaughter, but what they did was inexcusable. They sold out justice on a national stage.

        • Two sides to a story says:

          What if, just what if the prosecutors were told to do what they did to tone down race, etc. for the national stage, to sanitize the approach to avoid rocking the public’s boat, but they were duped by – Corey? Scott? into throwing the case without their full complicity?

          Probably not what happened, but I like to play what if.

          • Trained Observer says:

            Possible … except that it didn’t tone things down on the national or global stage.

            If anything, the decibel level has escalated to a point where Florida stands ready for well-deserved political, social, and economic disruption and upheaval for a long time to come. An underbelly of corruption has been exposed.for the whole world to see.

          • cielo62 says:

            Trained Observer~ EXACTLY! And we must KEEP the pressure on, politically, economically and socially. Florida thought a show would be enough to satisfy for justice, they are WRONG! And they will be paying for it for a long time to come.

            ________________________________

          • Tzar says:

            Letting Serino and Singleton vouch for the killer and destroy their theory of the case had little to do with toning down the racial aspect of the case

      • racerrodig says:

        Professor, I stated a petition to have Fogen prosecuted prompted by a post below. Can you start a blog to have the link made available to everyone…..Here is the link

        http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Prosecute_George_Zimmeramn_for_a_hate_crime/?copy+

        I’m hoping every bit helps.

  159. “I wrote an article in which I stated that anyone who believed George Zimmermanā€™s story was necessarily a racist. That is, one had to assume that Trayvon was a violent and crazy thug who all of a sudden for no apparent reason decided to attack and attempt to kill with his bare hands a menacing stranger who had followed him in a vehicle and then on foot after Trayvon had successfully eluded him by running away and hiding in a dark area behind a building containing townhomes. No person in their right mind would do that.”

    The new meme is that Trayvon Martin was a homophobe, that he attacked Z because he was afraid Z was coming on to him and that Rachel Jeantel implanted that fear and is therefore to blame for his death. Most racists are willing to accept either theory, that Trayvon was a crazed violent gangsta psychopath or a deranged homophobe.

    • aussie says:

      Rush Limbauigh started this.

      Just one more excuse for why it’s not racist. Bad luck. It still IS.

      The SOLE reason for his death is a hollow point through the heart from a killer who didn’t want to leave alive the witness to his kidnapping felony.

      • concernedczen says:

        That is exactly right Aussie. He shot Trayvon to stop him from screaming for his life.

        • Trained Observer says:

          Right … it was instinctive …. Fogen’s immediate goal was to shut down the screams … and then to shut the kid up.

    • Malisha says:

      It wouldn’t matter what Trayvon Martin was. He could have hated Fogen for any reason or no reason, he could have NOT hated Fogen, the evidence shows only two things that were actually witnessed by anyone except the liar:

      1. Fogen formed a negative opinion of Trayvon Martin and then announced his intent to not let Trayvon Martin “get away” and then followed him; and

      2. Fogen shot and killed Trayvon Martin.

      Nobody’s hatred or homophobia changes any of that.

      By the way, it wasn’t “coming onto him” that Trayvon feared. When you’re alone at night and someone’s following you they don’t intend to “come on” to you; they intend to rape you. They can do their “coming on” in broad daylight in a bar. And of couse, Rush L’s theory would have made the actions of Fogen child abuse, as Guy said.

      • It really doesn’t require this much thought. Right Wingers enjoy taking the very causes the normal population believes in and turning it against them. It’s a trick. That’s why Don West called Martin and Jeantel racists for using the expression cracka. They don’t actually care. They readily support homophobia. But they know the normal population doesn’t.

    • elcymoo says:

      Rachel said that Trayvon’s use of ‘creepy-ass cracka’ meant ‘pervert’, in the context in which it was used. The great majority of pedophiles are heterosexual white men, and parents of all races warn their children how to behave if a stranger follows them, especially at night, because of their fear of such pedophiles.

    • cielo62 says:

      Fleeing a deranged possible pedophile all of a sudden becomes being a HOMOPHOBE?? Just how SICK SICK SICK are these people?

      • Malisha says:

        Well Rush’s idea is that if a HOMOSEXUAL creepy-ass cracka is following a young AA kid, the young AA kid should show that he is not homophobic by saying to the creepy-ass cracka, when he gets into view, “Hey man, I’m not homophobic. If you desire me, it will be only my greatest pleasure to let you do what you will with me.”

        See, that’s the way it would’a been before all these libruls began to suggest that not even a WOMAN had to submit to any white MAN who desired her favahz.

        • cielo62 says:

          Malisha~ Well now there, pilgrim. White women are the flower of the South and need to be protected. Everybody ELSE is fair game, however…

          ________________________________

  160. kenteoth says:

    Remember, GOD works in mysterious ways and I truly believe that the defendant will pay for his crimes….if not here on Earth, it will be with him facing GOD Himself and there is NO WAY he can escape his criminal choices if he doesn’t take responsibility now…..and I doubt that he will without some force helping him to change his mind….smh

    • concernedczen says:

      Just as Bob Marley sung about, I want justice on earth. We need to demand justice while we are here on earth.

      “How long shall they kill our prophets, while we stand aside and look?

      Yes, some say it’s just a part of it – We’ve got to fulfill the book.

      Won’t you help to sing these songs of freedom?

      ‘Cause all I ever heard, redemption songs”

      • cielo62 says:

        On this, I agree with you. We as a society NEED to see justice being done. It is the foundation of an orderly society. Karma is great and all, but “we” never see it. I will rejoice when zimmy takes his penis-substitute out and menaces the wrong type of person. THEN I hope he gos to jail for some substantial time.

        • Malisha says:

          OR, I hope that in the event he takes his penis-substitute out and menaces the wrong person, that the wrong person stands his ground and at HIS trial, Fogen’s testimony for the prosecution is challenged by the defense counsel and shown to be full of lies, and the defendant (who stood his ground against Fogen) is acquitted and handed a medal. And not a second-hand thrift shop medal, either.

        • Two sides to a story says:

          Well, yeah you do see karma down the road sometimes. The guy in Miami who stabbed a thief with a bag full of radios and got off with SYG got caught in the crossfire of a drive-by shooting two years later. OJ ends up convicted for something else. There’s no way Fogen will have an easy life and some journalist will tell us all about it down the road in some retrospective article even if we don’t hear about him for awhile. Heck he’s still hiding because of all the backlash over the verdict – if that ain’t karma, I don’t know what is.

          • cielo62 says:

            Two Sides~ See tItaliche new article about fogen? “He saved the life of somebody from an overturned truck.” PUKE PUKE PUKE> I bet it was all orchestrated, just like his entire trial. Too bad the damned thing didn’t fall on HIM.

            ________________________________

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Was that a back hoe seen leaving the area shortly after the “accident”? Inquiring minds want to know. LOL

    • HotFlash says:

      He may not do jail time, but just think of what his legal bill will be. He is no free man.

  161. Xena says:

    @Professor. (((((APPLAUSE)))))

  162. Woow! says:

    I am with you, I do not believe the DOJ is going to do anything. Fogen could have scream N(**r from the top of his lungs with a white hood on and noose in his hand and the DOJ, Corey, BDLR, and POTUS would still say race played no part.

    What is wrong with these people. What are they afraid of because the bigots sure aren’t afraid.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Bravo! Excellent article, Professor.

      With every one of your paragraph’s you nailed it!

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Trayvon Martin Rally

      • Malisha says:

        Professor — or whoever else knows it — didn’t Guy give a very supportive (of the verdict) statement AFTER the verdict was already rendered? I heard something and now forgot it, something supportive of the jury verdict, and it turned me against Guy.

        • a2nite says:

          He’s supposed to say that. Like they say “the system works”. He’s a part of the system. He has to at least say that.

          • Trained Observer says:

            Right …. “The jury has spoken” … standard stuff.

          • Malisha says:

            He could say that he supports the system and the jury verdict because that’s the law. He doesn’t have to pretend that “the truth came out” or that there is “peace.” In fact, what he could just as easily have said was:

            “We believed, and still believe, absolutely, that George Zimmerman murdered Trayvon Martin; although obviously we respect the jury’s verdict, our take on the evidence was a completely different result than the one the jury reached and I personally wish that we had been able to convince them of the rightness of our position, for the good of the People of the State of Florida whom I serve.”

        • Cercando Luce says:

          Perhaps he has electoral ambitions and thought that was the way to go.

          • Malisha says:

            Well yes, in a state where white racists make up the majority, in a county where white racists hold all the power, that WAS the way to go. I’m just saying it makes me think that he was more likely IN on the corruption than OUT of it.

      • Trained Observer says:

        x2

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Link to photo of a demonstrator carrying sign:

      Trayvon Martin Rally

      Sign reads:

      >Zimmerman: By killing an unarmed Trayvon, You just AWOKE millions of peopleā€¦.black, white, Spanish, Chinese, Indianā€¦..that want JUSTICE.
      Stand Your Ground is just modern day lynching

    • Malisha says:

      “These people” are not AFRAID of the bigots.
      “These people” ARE the bigots.

    • BlueJ says:

      I also think it’s very telling that Sarino hired Baez as council and then released him before the trial started. I think that Beaz learned that the proceution were not going to touch Sarino and the SPD during the trial.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        bluej says

        I also think itā€™s very telling that Sarino hired Baez as council and then released him before the trial started. I think that Beaz learned that the proceution were not going to touch Sarino and the SPD during the trial.

        at the very least, baez learned that serino would be an uncooperative witness for the prosecution. when that happens, it throws the entire case into disarray.

      • groans says:

        @BlueJ: I agree. And that explains why Baez stated many times, and with great certainty, that CAC would not be convicted.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Hey, they’re working hard to earn a pension, by making the nation into an unlivable country. This is how it happens, bit by bit, step by step, until finally the leadership is so invested in falsehoods they cannot allow the least bit of truth in. This, then, has the effect of oppressing everyone, shutting off innovation and forcing everyone to rely on cronyism and corruption for their daily bread. Try to guess how long a society dependent on science and technology, will be able to survive on fantasy and lies. My guess is; not a hell of a long time comrade!

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