The prosecution concealed police corruption in Zimmerman trial

Saturday, July 20, 2013

Good evening my friends:

The jury delivered its verdict in the George Zimmerman trial a week ago tonight. I was shocked and dismayed by the verdict. Like most of you I initially focused my wrath on stealth juror B-37 because she basically admitted on national television approximately 12 hours after the verdict was announced to having decided that “George” (referring to him as though he were a personal friend) was not guilty before she heard any evidence in the case. Indeed, her summary of the evidence matched the false narrative that Mark O’Mara had been preaching and the national media had been duly reporting for a year.

She bought O’Mara’s Trayvon-is-a-thug story despite no evidence to support it. Her race-based criticism of Rachel Jenteal’s manner of speaking and her consequent decision to ignore her testimony was a breathtaking admission of racist thinking that she quite obviously regarded as acceptable normative behavior that no one would question.

When I thought she could not possibly do more damage to herself, she added insult to injury with her giddy announcement that she had reached an agreement with a literary agent to sell her story to a publishing house before the story was even written. Never mind that she or her attorney husband must have contacted the literary agent in violation of the sequestration order, unless they contacted her in the middle of the night after the verdict was announced.

I seriously doubt that literary agents accept cold calls on late Saturday nights and early Sunday mornings from unpublished authors pitching ideas for unwritten books. Thankfully, the agent had the good sense to nix the deal once she realized she was dealing with an out of control racist wacko.

I was so disgusted and angered by B-37’s false statements under oath during voir dire, her willful violations of the sequestration order and her oath to follow the jury instructions that I urged the prosecution to prosecute her for perjury. Well, I have not seen any sign that Angela Corey intends to make an example out of her to warn future jurors not to engage in those behaviors. Seems to me that such a prosecution probably is necessary in Florida to convince jurors that an oath truly is a promise to tell the truth under penalty of perjury. In addition, B-37 truly is an unrepentant racist and egregious human being who deserves to spend time in prison for who she is as well as what she did.

While I have no doubt that B-37 contributed significantly to the miscarriage of justice, she was not alone. I also hold Angela Corey and Bernie de la Rionda responsible two disastrous tactical decisions; namely, the decision to remove race from the case and the decision to refrain from aggressively attacking Investigator Chris Serino and Officer Doris Singleton for their testimony supporting Zimmerman and vouching for his credibility. Serino, in particular, deserved to be raked over the coals for tampering with witnesses at the crime scene in an attempt to convince them that the defendant uttered the terrified death shriek.

Witness tampering in a murder case is a felony punishable by up to life in prison.

I first read about Trayvon Martin’s murder while the Sanford Police Department was still investigating the case and it seemed that Zimmerman was not going to be charged.

Their reluctance to charge appeared to me to have been imposed from the top down by State Attorney Norm Wolfinger and Chief Bill Lee due to as yet unknown reasons political reasons rather than the merits of the case.

That is corruption and that is not how our legal system is supposed to work.

As soon as I reviewed the defendant’s statements, including what he said during the NEN call, I realized that this case was all about race and could not be understood without mentioning race. If Trayvon Martin had been white, for example, the defendant would not have called the police.

I wrote an article in which I stated that anyone who believed George Zimmerman’s story was necessarily a racist. That is, one had to assume that Trayvon was a violent and crazy thug who all of a sudden for no apparent reason decided to attack and attempt to kill with his bare hands a menacing stranger who had followed him in a vehicle and then on foot after Trayvon had successfully eluded him by running away and hiding in a dark area behind a building containing townhomes. No person in their right mind would do that.

The defendant described Trayvon as a stereotypical black gangsta popularized in comics and blaxploitation films. In order to believe Zimmerman, people had to believe that the stereotypical black gangsta in films actually exists in real life.

I have represented black gang-bangers from Los Angeles who were members of the notorious Crips and Bloods. They were real flesh and blood people with more than a passing interest in survival. Yes, they had participated in gang violence and killed people but they planned what they did and they acted together. They did not utter dated movie lines or issue warnings to their intended victims before shooting them. They did not wander off unarmed and alone somewhere and suddenly decide to attack and kill a stranger with their bare hands. None of them would have believed Zimmerman’s ridiculous story. Only a white racist fixated on young black males who gets a thrill out of watching movies about mean and vicious black gangstas believing that they represent real people would even be capable of making up such a ridiculous story.

I was and continue to be astonished that anyone believed his story.

I believe that the extent to which it is believed offers a pretty accurate measuring stick indicating the prevalence of racism against blacks in our current society.

George Zimmerman did not profile Trayvon Martin as a thug casing the neighborhood for a house to burglarize in the RTL around 7 pm on a rainy Sunday night in late February because Trayvon was wearing a hoodie and walking around in the rain. He profiled him because he was a young black male and he invented a self-defense claim to justify killing him by describing Trayvon Martin as character in a movie.

Race was the proverbial elephant in the living room and the prosecution should never have agreed not to mention it. Zimmerman selected Trayvon because he was black and he hunted him down and attempted to detain him because he assumed certain things about him because he was black. He was the aggressor because he was determined to prevent him from escaping out the back entrance before the police arrived just like all of the other fucking coons and assholes who got away.

A review of all of the defendants NEN calls establishes that he obsessed about blacks. Black residents of the RTL had negative experiences with him where he accused them of wrongdoing. A visible pattern emerges of Zimmerman repeatedly assuming that blacks engaging in normal activities actually were up to no good and he called the police NEN to report them.

All of this evidence was relevant to why he selected Trayvon and why he killed him

As John Guy said, “George Zimmerman did not shoot Trayvon Martin because he had to. He shot him because he wanted to.”And he did it because Trayvon was black.

In other words, he committed a federal hate crime and I hope the Justice Department prosecutes him.

I do not know why the prosecution decided not to stress the importance of race. I imagine Angela Corey made the decision with Bernie de la Rionda’s consent. I do not believe John Guy or Richard Mantei participated in that decision. I think Corey and de la Rionda owe us an explanation.

They also inexplicably allowed Chris Serino and Doris Singleton to support George Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense. I can understand not wanting to attack a law enforcement agency in order to avoid incurring the probable wrath of other law enforcement agencies. However, once Serino and Singleton turned against the prosecution, Bernie de la Rionda should have torn Serino to shreds by bringing out that he tampered with witnesses to get them to identify George Zimmerman as the person who uttered the terrified death shriek and he set up Tracy Martin at his most vulnerable moment to deny in front of other officers, including Singleton, that he could positively identify Trayvon as the person screaming.

Serino was obviously following orders issued before he arrived at the crime scene. The fix was in and the orders were issued from the top down. He ran that investigation to produce the appearance of an investigation and he only varied from that course of action at the last minute when he realized that the department was not going to get away with not charging Zimmerman. I think he made that decision on his own hoping to save his job and hoping people would not look closely at what he did.

I think he was a trusted player in the corruption game or the Chief would not have put him in charge of the investigation.

Bernie de la Rionda also should have confronted Singleton for wearing awards on her uniform that she had not earned.

The verdict in this case might well have been different if Angela Corey and Bernie de la Rionda had not made these decisions.

The bottom line is Chris Serino and Doris Singleton are corrupt cops in a corrupt police department. They still have their jobs and that suggests that the effort to clean-up the department is only for the sake of appearances.

The prosecution’s decision to allow them to lie and gut their case to justify and conceal how they mishandled the investigation bespeaks a form of intolerable corruption in which Angela Corey and Bernie de la Rionda aided and abetted corrupt police work.

And the end result is that a racist lying psychopath is now free to kill again.

That is why I cannot and will not accept this verdict as legitimate, ever.

This is why I join with LLMPapa in urging Attorney General Eric Holder to prosecute George Zimmerman for a hate crime.

I regret to say that I do not believe Zimmerman will be charged with a hate crime. I fear the decision will be made for political reasons rather than on the merits of the case itself.

Assuming I am right that will add even more corruption to a corrupt and shameful case.

At the very least, by speaking truth to power, we draw a line in the sand and declare for all who have eyes to see that we are not fooled by the appearance of justice. We saw through to the corrupt core of this case and in this way we honor Trayvon Martin and his memory.

1,070 Responses to The prosecution concealed police corruption in Zimmerman trial

  1. Malisha says:

    Perhaps these folks think I’m making false allegations against them. Oh Boo Hoo Hoo Hoo effin HOOOOOOO!

    • sparger says:

      That makes more sense than protecting that idiot George. Hopefully one day one of them will come forward and do the right thing.

      • Malisha says:

        Not unless they are persistently hounded and outed and damaged and made uncomfortable and etc. etc.

        People don’t do the right thing that easily when they have already turned over to the dark side.

        • aussie says:

          “Not unless they are persistently hounded and outed and damaged and made uncomfortable and etc. etc.”

          happens to blacks all the time, I’ve heard.

  2. Malisha says:

    I think I have figured out whom Serino was protecting, other than Fogen: Tim Smith.

    Think of it. Did any police officer who put in a report say that he had been dispatched to the crime scene by an NEN call? Not one. So naturally, since there were more than half a dozen 911 calls, nobody would think to ask, “Well who was dispatched by Sean?”

    Tim Smith was dispatched by Sean.

    But by the time he arrived on the scene the 911s had rolled in.

    Why would Serino have to protect Tim Smith?

    Because it was a little thing Tim Smith and Fogen had cooked up to take care of the problem Fogen was having with the complaints being lodged against him. He’d call NEN, Tim Smith would come to the scene and discover that during his trip over to the neighborhood, Fogen had been attacked and therefore had to draw his gun in self defense and restrain “the suspect” who was trying to get away. Tim Smith gave out the initial stories for the other cops to use. Tim Smith and Fogen rode to the station house planning out the narrative. Serino had to protect that because since Fogen had actually KILLED his prey, Tim Smith would be in trouble for participating in this little “hero-citizen-show” that ended with a death. Had it ended in Trayvon’s arrest, Smith would have testified to seeing Trayvon beating up Fogen and Fogen finally being able to restrain him because, as luck would have it, the good guy was packing.

    Serino was protecting Tim Smith. Only by proxy he ended up the advocate for a murderer.

    This is speculation. But it makes a LOT MORE SENSE than the stories we have been sold.

    Furthermore, which officer WAS dispatched by Sean? Sean did say he was sending an officer over there to meet Fogen. All of the others entered later and with guns drawn so it wasn’t them.

  3. Boyd says:

    I just heard that Fogen had a fire extinguisher with him for this ‘accident’.

    WTF! Who carries a fire extinguisher in the car? Besides, who would think the car would catch fire?

    This story is too bizarre, normal for this fraud family.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      boyd — i carry a fire extinguisher in my car along with a serious first aid kit and any other items i expect i may need in a variety of emergency situations. some of us relatively ‘normal’ people do — it’s just something i learned from my folks. when i drove a vintage 62 mercury, i carried a full set of belts and hoses, spare rebuilt generators and starters, and the very nice tool kit my father assembled for me. i actually used all of those items at some point and had room in a trunk that would sleep a family of four comfortably.

      • Boyd says:

        In the old days. my dad carried one in the station wagon we used for camping trips. I’ve seen cars catch fire in the old days including the family’s VW van.

        But Today with these newer cars. I’m surprised. I find the entire story suspect. 5:45 pm, work hour traffic and Fogen is the only guy around.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @boyd — i freely admit that i carry more in the emergency supplies dept than the average person — i also choose to travel the roads less traveled (when i was single and now as a family). if i were to get to the california coast from my location, it is a long, circuitous route which takes through places i do not wish to be. i prefer to take the partially unpaved forest service roads leading from my location directly to the coast and see things that please me. because of my style, i do take extra precautions and know that survival is based on my own self reliance.

          regarding the ‘fogen saves family’ story, you can consider me a total skeptic. considering his all to recent court appearances, you would think that even if this event occurred exactly as stated, that he would take any reasonable steps to keep his name out of it then we get back to the fact that this is not a reasonable person.

        • racerrodig says:

          It’s a damn good thing Officer Wagner wasn’t the 1st on the scene or we’d have photographic evidence……in about a months.

          Now, with all those death threats, Fogen was alone… Osterman, no SheLie, no Osterman………really ??

          It’s a bullshit story and we’d have known about it last week. Even Robbie the Racist didn’t know until yesterday meaning it didn’t happen.

      • cielo62 says:

        faux mccoy~ DAMN! Have you ever been on The Price is Right? You carry EVERYTHING!


  4. Boyd says:

    Gladass Zimmerman made a comment on one of those talk shows (Barbara Walters?) about teaching Fogen not to show emotion.

    So then how do so many people come forward to claim that’s Fogen screaming?

  5. colin black says:

    Now aday us peasants don’t have to storm the bastions to make a point an to be heard.

    With the advent of social media an instan accsess to communication globealy.

    Us peasants now have the power at our finger tips to be heard an take action an make a difference.

    Dictatorships entrenched for fifty odd years have come crashing down in the Middle East Tunisa the beating death of a fruit saleman for not paying illeagll rent to police

    Hit the internet an within months Tunisan Government GONE
    Eygipt Libia an Syria in the misdst of being gone.

    So don’t think we haven’t got the power right now to instigate change.

    John Lenon used to sing about ower to the People.


    The innerwebb is power to the people right now.


  6. Nef05 says:

    Does anyone know when the Florida man, Walter “inconvenienced by his arrest because he had “only shot a n*gger.” Butler is scheduled for trial? OR, failing that – at what point the process is, at this time? Anyone have a link to the available discovery released, since it’s also Floriduh? At least this fool also has a “hate crime” enhancement for THIS crime. It may well be one we also might like to follow here, along with Davis/Dunn. I, personally, would enjoy discussions of how the hate crime enhancement is used/presented, and juxtapose it against the Martin and Davis trials, where they aren’t/weren’t – but, I believed they should be/have been. JMO

  7. Boyd says:

    Remember, the Zimmerman believers are likely the same type people who believed that WMD nonsense. remember? when they could not find it in Iraq, it was either buried in the sand or sent to Syria. They will never admit they are wrong about Trayvon.
    They just threw out that Jane’s testimony as nonsense.

    • crazy1946 says:

      What do we expect from a group that gets their news from a source called FAUX or from talk radio hosts that stir the pot of hatred against people who do not share the same color skin as they do?

    • Malisha says:

      Boyd, there are plenty of faked-up spurious arguments available to anybody who wants to side with an abuser. Oldest trick in the book, as well as probably the most nauseating. “Oh Trayvon was prolly just a hooligan so we can excuse not only murder but corruption and police cover-up and perversion of our courts and public theater of the most expensive and dishonest kind.”

      Every one who participated in this scandal: be damned. And not just in that kind of post-mortem “Hell” where you are punished for sins. Be damned right here on earth where it won’t matter what religious exemptions you claim for your wrongdoing. Let it not be god’s plan but the Plan B (Plan A was JUSTICE and that’s gone) that the people put you through. Rot in an earthly hell where your integrity and your humanity have already rotted.

      I hope somebody tells Serino that there are people suggesting he took bribes, sold out, got free perks from NRA, ALEC, Shellie, Gladazz, or anybody else — all without evidence HA HA HA HA HA HA HA — you know, he had to have done a lot wrong in his career and let him now think that there will be people coming out of the woodwork talking about it because his name has been passed around the rumor mill. Live in fear, Chris Serino. Because you should have had the balls to do right when it became obvious that the wrong was greater than any human being had a right to accept.

  8. Malisha says:

    I am returning to the idea that we should not circulate speculations about what made various SPD individuals or certain jurors or certain court personnel (or sheriff’s personnel or newscasters or etc. etc. etc. etc.) do what very obviously looks WRONG in the Trayvon Martin murder case.

    Let’s face it: there is very little chance that any governmental agency will ever do an honest investigation into the cover-up. It is so obvious that there was an elaborate (growing more elaborate as the protests against it grew stronger) cover-up. Yet ONLY a thorough and honest investigation and punishment of those who were corrupt will even go 10% toward a remedy for the murder of a young AA man who did no wrong.

    In view of the fact that there is SOOOOOOO little chance of a proper governmental response to the cover-up, here we are with a moral question? Is it “bad” for anybody to speculate about what made a certain individual do what was obviously wrong? Should we stand here being “nice” because we have no EVIDENCE that he did what we may guess he did? Should we hold BACK so as not to be “irrational” or “unfair” in view of the fact that members of a conspiracy will not come forward and present to us the evidence of their wrongdoing? Shall we be good, and kind, and “rational” and not say “j’accuse”?

    My answer is simple: Each of us should do exactly as we please. Those of us who would like to pray to God because Trayvon was killed, fine. Blessings on you. Those of us who want to be intellectually admirable and legalistically “PC” and only say that something went wrong and not nail anybody or call them names, great, wonderful, and write a book. Those of us who, like me, want to scream and holler about a cover-up and (probably impotently, since cover-ups are powerful and fixed-income retirees are not) accuse individuals we believe did wrong of wrongdoing, and SPECULATE about them, that’s fine with me too. WHY? Because if ever anybody ever does want to find out what happened to the society when Trayvon Martin’s murder was covered up, let my voice screaming “j’accuse j’accuse j’accuse” in my own way shape and form be part of his or her scholarly analysis. Let him or her write the sentence: “There were even bloggers calling for the incarceration of the homicide investigator and speculating that he had accepted bribes to throw the case to the defense.”

    Let it be. Do as you will. I defend absolutely every single thing I said and a good many that I have not yet had the brains to think up, about every participant in this scandalous, filthy, racist cover-up.

    • crazy1946 says:

      Exactly why some of us refuse to sit by and quietly watch the clouds go past! This whole horrific episode in our history has been denied by too many people in power! I will not be silenced by anyone as long as there is no justice for my fellow citizens. If we sit by and allow this kind of justice to continue how long until we also fall victim to the system!

      • Malisha says:

        crazy, I fell victim to it already, and that’s why I began to learn about corruption. I have been studying corruption and cover-ups for 30+ years. I’m still noways cynical enough. I thought Serino was ultimately going to tell the truth. I thought Baez’s statements that the prosecution’s case was very weak (“from the beginning”) were his way of distancing himself from Serino and that Serino was going to testify absolutely honestly about his initial disbelief of Fogen’s story and his developing realization that Fogen actually WAS both a murderer and a pathological liar.

    • Malisha says:

      Let’s say that, to me:

      Serino seemed like he was up to no good.
      He was prolly on bribes or somepin.
      I don’t know what his thing is.
      He was real suspicious.
      F*cking Punks.
      These a55holes, they always get away with their corruption.

      • aussie says:

        He did very good good-cop interviews that kept the idiot talking. He submitted him to be arrested three times. He got over-ruled three times. He may not know enough about why or who ordered it, to say anything. The judgement of “enough evidence to prosecute” is not up to the interviewing detective.

        If you want to go after a cop, try going after Tim Smith, who lied from the word go about grass stains and “I called for help but no-one came” and mysteriously said nothing to the defendant on a 15 minute car trip.

        Thirty years of fighting corruption is no real excuse for profiling any particular individual, same as 30 years of break-ins by blacks is no excuse for profiling a black teen. The end does NOT justify the means, Malisha.

        You’re no longer coming across as the rational person you were last week, sorry to say. Scattergun accusations are just guaranteed to be ignored by the people who matter, who MIGHT maybe listen to well presented provable facts.

    • colin black says:


      Malisha but I am hopefull that just as the initial blatant injustice that let foggage walk that Febury night.

      Caused an uproar to ensue that forced his arrest

      The same will ocour at this misscarge of justice an blatant perverse verdict returned by a bias bigoted jury.

      Will again shock an have an awesome impact an this time GLOBEAL.

      Millions now have heard TRAYVONS NAME

      That wouldn’t have had there been a guilty verdict.

      God works in ways to mysterious for mankinds ken.

      Though I suspect many women have it figured out.

  9. Stormwatch says:

    I apologize. I missed the part about the witness telling the jury that the defendant only shadow boxed. I don’t believe for one minute that Zimmerman only shadow boxed. I bet there’s somebody out there that sparred with him. You don’t go to the gym like the one he was at for a year and a half without ever sparring with someone. Not to mention that Zimmerman had a previous bouncer job. Guys who fight like girls don’t handgout at the gym that specialized in training guys in kick boxing and get bouncer jobs.

  10. Stormwatch says:

    When the real estate gal who said that the screams were Zimmerman’s, she then said “but he never screamed like that” Really? How did he scream. Explain how it was that you ever heard Zimmerman scream? When was Zimmerman yelling, and who was he yelling at and why?
    And the Viet Nam veteran who said he was a medic? Pahlease. They should have researched whether he was ever really at any major battles and asked him about the difference between screams of pain, and screams of fear. Cause they are two different sounds, and those guys on the battlefield were missing arms and legs. They were screaming out of pain, which included a lot of moaning.

    • Girlp says:

      Stormwatch I thought the same thing when all these people testified it was George screaming…Does he scream in terror at work everyday, is he alway’s screaming in pain. If I were on a jury and knew nothing about the case this alone would make me wonder what’s really going on this is so unrealistic the parents are one thing but strangers?

    • MDH says:

      How would GZ be able to scream like that with Trayvon’s hands pressed on his nose and mouth?

      And the Viet Nam medic claiming he had never heard the scream before. They were playing that tape on every TV and many, many stations for months.

      What did this guy do when he was at other people’s home or in a public place? Smash the TV or make people turn it off.

      If he knows that is GZ screaming, then GZ must have been at his house fearing death. How else does one “know that is George”.

      The medic was a liar who disgraced his uniform.

      I suspect he was in one of those tents with the Stars and Bars that I have seen in Nam photos.

  11. Stormwatch says:

    Fought like a girl?? How did he fight like a girl.?Elaborate. Was he a feminine kind of guy.?Did he cry like a bitch and run away? Could he punch? Did he know how to position himself? Did he ever hit the punching bag? Did he lift weights? When you did the initial assessment and evaluation of him was he fighting like a girl? After 18 months with you, he was still fighting like a girl? Did the guys you paired him with for sparring think they were fighting a girl?

    Zimmerman never fought like a girl. If he did, the gym rats would not have tolerated him. He was part of the group. He was becoming a bad ass. That witness should have been torn to shreds to the point of admitting everything he taught his racist friend about self defense.

    • MDH says:

      The fact that this guy states “fight like a girl” is a big tell that he is a BS artist.

      When I took some courses in Tae Kwon Do, the instructors wife left some mean bruises all over my arms just from practicing blocks and strikes. This, of course, also points to the absurd position taken by the defense that GZ could be pummeled 20 to 30 times by Trayvon, yet have not one defensive cut or bruise on his hands or forearms.

      Then there was the wee little 100lbs women who sounded like she was chopping wood when she hit the heavy bag.

      I fail to see how GZ would not have learned how to rotate wrists to drill his punches after 18 months of training.

      And then there is the question of strength.

      GZ carried at least 25lbs more muscle mass on a frame with better leverage than Trayvon.

      I have been going to the gym for 30 years and guys built like GZ will squat weights far in excess of boys built like Trayvon.

      So the question about grappling is paramount in that the struggle appeared to be more of a wrestling match wherein top and bottom positions were in flux.

      • Dave says:

        Trayvon would have had the edge in a boxing match due to his height and reach advantage as well as (apparently) some experience in informal bareknuckle contests (as evidenced by his text messages). With his training and weight advantage, GZ should have had a decisive edge in a wrestling match. Even there though, he had to resort to the gun. What a pansy!

  12. Stormwatch says:

    Hindsight being 20/20..when the gym rat who trained Zimmerman for a year and a half said that Zimmerman fought like a girl, he should have been hammered relentlessly on cross examination to the point of being forced to admit that Zimmerman fought nothing like a pre-adolescent female. He would not be pairing the guy with sparring partners if he fought like a girl. And where were Zimmerman’s sparring partners to say whether or not he fought like a girl? The more I look back in retrospect, the more frustrated I get.

    • LBTG says:

      That doesn’t give a good advertisement for the gym. So why would they advertise training program like Zimmerman had on their website. Why wouldn’t they hammer on the quality of their program – like taking fogen’s money and not delivering results.

    • Dave says:

      Pollock testified that he didn’t let GZ fight at all–just shadow box and heavy bag practice. Interestingly he didn’t say anything about the grappling program that the killer was in before he switched to boxing.

    • camanokat says:

      My daughter fights like a girl and I advise NOBODY to challenge her! You could get seriously hurt.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        @camanokat — great to hear about your daughter!

        there is a long and steady stream of boys, teens and grown men who would be ashamed and embarrassed to admit what it was like to be picking their sorry asses off the ground for engaging with my physically.

  13. diary73 says:

    Dear Professor,

    May we have a new thread? Pretty please.



  14. endlessummer76 says:

    I know everyone is waiting on the new post, and I will re-post this there:

    Stevie Wonder’s boycott is going mainstream!

  15. crazy1946 says:

    dianetrotter, I would be willing to bet she is a big fan of Rush L… That is the type of trash he was throwing out during the trial! I also agree it is scary for our nation when people are so willing to listen to trash talkers that state their opinions as if they were fact….

  16. dianetrotter says:

    I’m trying to enlighten a woman who is dumb as a concrete slab. She said Trayvon’s mother told him not to go over there but he went any way. She said he had no business being there. She said his school friends testified about what a problem he was in school and it shows how bad he was. Even those who thought Trayvon deserved it asked where she got her information from. It is so scary that there are people walking around in this ignorant bliss.

  17. acemayo says:

    Look what happen to the Indian of this country
    History just repeating itself with other race

    • crazy1946 says:

      It’s almost like a grown up version of the school yard “my daddy can whip your daddy” talk we heard as children. It’s the need to put down someone else so you can be better than them…. Only in this case it is the people in charge of the nation that are doing it, and that is not necessarily those people that are elected to be in charge….

  18. silk says:

    have any body herd the stupid shit that came out of charles barkley mouth ? he was the only black i ran into that made himself look like a fucken fool . had the nerve to say the evidence. i know that Dr. martin luther king turn over in his grave. charles barkley is a jackass . a complete idiot!! forgive for my conduct , but the shit pissed off. he needed to STFU!!!

  19. silk says:

    now they want us to beleave that zimmerman saving a family is true. every thing related to this clown has been staged . from the bloodie nose photo-shop to trayvons screams. may be this is some type of ploy to avoid federal charges. i dont beleave shit about the rescue story. especially when u have the racist sanford police involed . i take it as an admission of guilt . diverting everyones attention from the racist bacteria that he and the criminal justice is in florida .

    • Woow! says:

      People are not going to accept Zimmerman as being a good kind person or a hero.

      They should not need to push that narrative.

      • ladystclaire says:

        I know I’m “NEVER” going to accept “ANYTHING” about this SOB, who murdered a child and, lied his way out of it, along with LE and, those who are just as racist and evil as he is. this also includes the jury. the only thing I want to hear of this B*****D is, that the DOJ will bring charges against him for a hate crime.

        There is no way that they can keep putting lipstick on this “PIG” literally, and he will not remain a “PIG” because in my minds eye, he will forever more be just that.

      • Trained Observer says:

        If I were in a wrecked car and Fogen approached, he’d end up being very, very sorry by the time I got done with his eyeballs.

  20. crazy1946 says:

    Has there been any point in recorded history of this world that there was justice that was not tainted by racial/ethnic prejudice? I know that in this country there has never been justice available for all people regardless of race…… Will we ever reach the point that we will achieve true justice for all?

    • aussie says:

      There are countries which are so predominantly the one ethnicity that the minorities are invisible.

      Traditionally the divide was between rich and poor. Upper and lower classes. Nobility and peasants. Intelligentsia and proletariat. Whatever names you want, comes down to rich and poor.

      The lawmakers are invariably the rich, and the laws naturally favour them..Of course laws related to property will protect those with property. Owning land was often the criterion for being allowed to vote. (Being male not necessarily but of course land ownership was restricted to them, so….)

      It is still the same. The divide is between the haves and the have-nots. With more workers becoming middle class, the poor are harder to recognise. Unless, conveniently, the minorities that LOOK different are kept poor. With AA there’s the added “insult” that former “property” is daring to claim humanity.

      Europeans who didn’t look too different (Irish, Italians, Poles etc) had no trouble melding into mainstream America, after an initial period of discrimination while they “spoke funny”.

      Even a simple thing like stop & frisk — only effects those who have to walk. No S&F for motor vehicles, is there? Wonderful due process legal system but the poor can’t afford to defend themselves. The most advanced medical treatments but half the country can’t afford it.

      Back when lower classes “knew their place” everything was hunky-dory. Often they were treated charitably. But now, with supposed equality and equal opportunity — there is a huge danger of others climbing up to overtake your position, wherever you are.

      I think it would help to rephrase the problem to omit race and prejudice from a lot of the discussion, as these words automatically put on the defensive the very people who need to change… and “defensive” to them means a mixture of offensive and going deaf.

    • Woow! says:

      This is an old article and I most people knew he used racist language in both emails and text messages to residents and the HOA.

      Why did JN allow MOM’s motion to have that evidence excluded and sealed is beyond me.

      • ladystclaire says:

        IIRC, this was sealed by Judge Lester and the state was in agreement with the defense, that it should be SEALED UNTIL THE TRIAL, and then they turned around and never used it. IMO, the prosecution threw this case on purpose at the urging of the governor of Florida.

        IMO, this is why Angela Corey bypassed a grand jury and, brought the second degree murder herself. she knew there was to be no conviction in this case because of what the SPD and SA Norm Wolfinger did and didn’t do. most of all how they tried to sweep this murder of a child at the hands of Fogen, under the proverbial rug.

        I don’t remember where I read an article, that detailed this very thing but, and the author of that article wasn’t wrong. also, it is my belief, that Fogen knew this was all a farce.

      • Malisha says:

        I always assumed that he had done that and THAT is why it was sealed. It would not be hard to see that if the prosecution was working with the defense to keep this case from becoming as bad and as large as it really WAS, they would go along with hiding the incendiary stuff.

    • sparger says:

      That from early July. If this is true why didn’t the proscution use it.

      • smokeegyrl says:

        I have been browsing this… They said it was sealed… I am writing the NAACP..

      • Girlp says:

        They did not charge with a hate crime and said they would only say that George profiled Trayvon (left race out of that too). They said it would prejudice the jury….I’m hoping somethings there the DOJ is suppose to have all the evidence whether used in the trail or not so they should have this but it doesn’t hurt to tell the DOJ that the text and emails…unless of course they lost them since thats what crooked police departments do.

      • Xena says:


        That from early July. If this is true why didn’t the proscution use it.

        The prosecution was not trying GZ for racial profiling. While the defense slithered race into the case through testimony such as the neighbor who GZ bought a lock for, the State’s hands were pretty much tied due to Judge Nelson’s order preventing both parties from using the phrase “racial profiling.” The State agreed to this pre-trial.

        Hate crime falls under federal jurisdiction. Federal cases are not subject to Florida’s Sunshine Law. The feds can prepare their case without the public having discovery documents.

        The feds have jurisdiction to obtain, examine, and use, all communications that GZ conducted in other states, before and during his eluding arrest, to after he was released on bond.

    • smokeegyrl says:

      Instead of writing the NAACP in Washington, I called them and told them about what I was reading and they had me read it to them, told them it was on blogs and the dates… what it said. They are going to get their media people to investigate it and call the State to see if these files do exists to see if they are sealed… they thanked me.

      • cielo62 says:

        smokeegyrl~ YOU GO GYRL!!! I remember these texts and etc being sealed and never mentioned again. I sure do HOPE they can get those damned things unsealed pronto!


    • cielo62 says:

      smokeegyrl~ This would be part of the evidence that the DoJ picked up earlier this week. It was NEVER mentioned during trial. Like I said, there is MORE than enough for a hate crime indictment and conviction. Written and eye witnesses also round that out.


      • smokeegyrl says:

        True that, but when talking to Washington this morning, whoever answer the phone said they never heard of what I was reading them and in his voice was excited. So who knows. I hope you are right. Thanks…

      • smokeegyrl says:

        True that, but when talking to Washington this morning, whoever answer the phone said they never heard of what I was reading them and in his voice was excited. So who knows. I hope you are right. Thanks…

    • willisnewton says:

      This is not an “article” it’s a blog post and an old and likely inaccurate one at that, that links to another dubious website as the “source,” where the “source” is described as “sources say.”

      Can you see the circular reasoning here?

      What is known about potentially racist emails is that GZ’s phone was in the hands of the SPD briefly and then after his arrest, was searched by the investigative team attached to the FL special prosecutor’s office. During early pre-trial hearings in the case, mention was made in open court about emails that contained references to a “reverend” and some other parties, the details of which I don’t fully recall at present.

      This may or may not have been emails FROM Zimmerman, but it seems like they were IIRC. One assumes the reverend was Al Sharpton. The email or texts seemed to date from the time post-killing when GZ was in hiding.

      The material was deemed not admissible at trial because the communication occurred after the killing and thus had no direct bearing on the crime that was charged.

      No known emails about “n-words” have surfaced to date regarding communications GZ made in any capacity.

      • smokeegyrl says:

        It doesn’t matter anymore as where I stand, I gave NAACP the information, I let them know it is a blog, that there were more blogs, and also notice a newsfeed of some sort on Google… it’s done… they know about it… they can further do the research… it they find it credible fine… for me… it is worth looking into… anything that is out there that is said or done… it worth it… the dates on those blogs were April 2012, May 2012 and recently in 2013… the newsfeed was of 11 of 2012… so you never know.

  21. Woow! says:

    While we are distracted debating Zimmerman

    Ray “Stop ‘n Frisk” Kelly is being considered for the next head of Homeland Security by POTUS. How did they sneak that one in on us.

    “NYPD’s Ray Kelly: ‘You can’t police without’ stop-and-frisk”

    God help us all…. blacks and Latinos are about to live hell on earth if this man is put into power to institute the same racist BS he has in New York. I watched a video last night of how the NY cops treat minorities. NY officer referred to one young man as a mutt.

    • Malisha says:

      You CAN police without stop-and-frisk. In fact, SAF is done when the police would like to do easy “rack up the arrests” kind of work rather than crime prevention and crime solving. If you stop and frisk all day, you can bring in two or three “criminals” who WEREN’T DOING ANYTHING WRONG, whereas if you have to work crimes and do protection services all day, you may not get any “collars” and your work might not get you any pretty medals on your dress-up shirt.

      • Woow! says:

        Also, it has not been factually established that SAF is preventing killings or crimes.

        The people who will get stopped and frisked will primarily be minorities (blacks and Latinos) if this man is put in charge at the federal level.

        Cop already discriminate and racial profile unchecked and commit all kinds of civil rights violations against minorities. I think some of it may be explicit racism by some cops but I think most if it originates from the fact that our society associates young black males and now Latinos with violent crime. Only crimes committed by blacks are reported in the news 24/7. If the media would report all crime, people would begin to see that whites commit the same or more.

        My fear is if Kelly is put in that position police will have unfettered discretion that will allow police abuses like we have not yet seen.

      • aussie says:

        Repurposed thrift shop medals, don’t forget. They make you look soooo much a hero.

    • crazy1946 says:

      Can you imagine how long S&F would last if the targeted population group was White? How long before the SCOTUS would become involved is that were the case? The question that again must be asked is why should any young person be afraid to walk down the street? Should any citizen who has committed no crime be forced to live in fear of the police? Then the real question that will never be answered, why do we as a country allow any citizen to be subjected to tyranny such as this?

      • Woow! says:

        It would not last … homeland security has been operating unchecked since its inception.

        At the rate things are going every right that has been fought for will be taken away right before our eyes.

      • cielo62 says:

        crazy~ Because we the people have NO RECOURSE! What do you do when the law you depend on is itself corrupted? I do believe that the 4th Amendment against unreasonable search and seizure has been suspended here in Houston. Nearly every weekend during the summer there are “no refusal weekends” so that if you are stopped RANDOMLY at a checkpoint, you can be forced to submit to a breathalyzer or blood test. I refuse to go anywhere whenever a “no refusal weekend” is announced. I don’t drink and drive; heck I barely drink at all! But it’s that whole “cop with attitude and a badge” can pull one over for NO REASON AT ALL and be treated like a criminal. Unless one is wealthy, you can’t fight.


        • crazy1946 says:

          One of the greatest problems we share is that the various law enforcement groups nation wide is full of too many Fogdoit type of individuals. Not all police are bad, but too many are copies of the Fogdoit…. They have the supreme power, a badge connected to a gun…..

        • aussie says:

          Here in Australia we have random breath tests — for motorists only. They pull up 6 or 8 consecutive vehicles up from a distance (so they can’t see who’s in it or what kind of vehicle it is). They are not allowed to set up within 3 blocks of a bar or other place that sells alcohol, to prevent them targetting patrons. The police vehicles are clearly marked and visible from a distance. That is the fair way to do it.

  22. crazy1946 says:

    A few things to consider. The gun that the Fogdoit used, was as he claimed, not his but instead belonged to Shel-lie. So could the local PD actually given possession of said gun to him? The next and more important thing to consider is, we need to work to ensure that she does go to trial and is convicted of a felony. I don’t care if she only receives a one day sentence or a fine. My attorney has told me that if she is convicted it will in effect nullify the ability of the Fogdoit to legally acquire or maintain a CCW permit. His argument is that there would be no reasonable means to prevent his felon wife from access to the weapon, thus he would not be permitted to have it in his residence or auto that she had access to…. Divorce? Angry wife spills beans on murdering husband? Drama?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      All the evidence in the case, including the firearm, was handed over to DOJ yesterday.

      • crazy1946 says:

        I was aware of that. What I am afraid of is that this will not lead to an impartial investigation, but instead is simply another case of out of sight, out of mind investigation and they will sit on the case until the people go about their business in disgust…..

  23. smokeegyrl says:

    Los Angeles City Councilman Bernard C. Parks Tuesday will introduce a resolution to fellow council members asking for their support of a federal investigation into the death of Trayvon Martin.

    • cielo62 says:

      smokeegyrl~ It’s a small step in the right direction.


    • smokeegyrl says:

      The article above mentions the PEW so below url is the PEW poll. wow… Now I know what it is called PEW… you can see the divide here.

      • Deborah Moore says:

        Thanks for posting this. I mentioned this a few comments ago, but didn’t have a link.
        Quite amazing, isn’t it?
        Are you in LA? I am, and I think I’ll sent an email to Parks, thanking him.

        • Deborah Moore says:

          I could not find an email address for Parks, but I just got off the phone with his office, supporting his action today.
          We do what we can, right?

    • diary73 says:

      I do hope that more cities follow suit. There is nothing right about a person who actively pursues a teen (Anyone ever heard of stranger danger?), does not identify who he is, and shoots this minor when the minor tries to defend himself.

      The story he contrived was utterly ridiculous, farfetched, and riddled with lies.

      This is a travesty that every city and state needs to protest!

      When more articles begin to surface titled, “I Am Not Travon Martin,” and speaks of the understanding of the plight of the Black man from a white person’s perspective, more might take note.

      Conservatives to believe this verdict to speak of something wrong need to speak out.

      Those of us who have sympathized with Trayvon from the beginning can only scream so loudly. We need those who might not ordinarily sympathize with the Trayvons of the world to speak out LOUDLY!

  24. LBTG says:

    Where are you Professor Leatherman? Miss your postings.

  25. crazy1946 says:

    While we have all been angered and disappointed by the verdict in the Fogdoit trial, there is one good thing that could come out of his acquittal.. If we could get an unbiased government agency (state or federal) to do an in depth investigation to the events leading up to and on the night of the murder of Trayvon Martin, there would very possibly be several co conspirators facing charges in the murder. Jana and Jeremy, Osterman, Taffee, and others could possibly be charged. With some of the comments that were made by Taffee and Jana along with the statements of Jeremy, tied to and with the death scream tape, and Jana’s 911 call, could very well be enough information to launch a factual investigation…. One can only hope that there is at least one legal agency that has enough integrity to attempt such a task…..

    • Malisha says:

      We’re hoping for that from DOJ, which is exactly who SHOULD do it. Meanwhile ACLU is not particularly interested in government corruption when it only deprives African Americans of their civil rights, and even the NYCLU would only give a “colorblind” little comment like “life interest is really cool and all” so who knows.

      • Beverly says:

        I beg to differ. ACLU has been on the front lines for years on many important issues. As we speak, they are working hard on death penalty issues, among others.

        • Malisha says:

          Oh I don’t disagree with the fact that they’re working the death sentence cases. I meant the social issues they choose and the economic issues they choose. They’re not choosing the Trayvon Martin murder and they haven’t chosen any “life interest” cases involving government corruption.

          Death sentence cases are “organization-easy.”

  26. Woow! says:

    @cielo62 —- What is going on in your neck of the woods? Lets see how this stand your ground case is handled..

    HPD: Rifle-toting woman shoots, kills man outside gas station in SE Houston

    • Malisha says:

      I don’t think a woman can get away with SYGGING a man.
      I don’t think a Black can get away with SYGGING anybody.
      I only think whites and Afro-Peruvians (or security guards for corporations) can SYG folks.

    • cielo62 says:

      Woow!~ Really bizarre! I saw the video. I think she will be No Billed by the Grand Jury. The man struck her, she fell back and then she shot him. What was REALLY REALLY weird is that she NEVER called 911 or even appeared upset at all! She made one cell phone call, then calmly drove off!! Don’t expect this to get anywhere.


      • Two sides to a story says:

        If she had time to retrieve a firearm from a trunk, why didn’t she just get into the vehicle and drive away? Looks like murder to me, but probably won’t be in Texas.

        • cielo62 says:

          Two Sides~ She had business at the gas station, so she was somewhere she had the “right to be.” She warned him off with the rifle, BUT he continued to harass her. She only shot AFTER he struck her. SYG. I believe the grand jury will No Bill this one.


        • Two sides to a story says:

          Sick. Completely unjustifiable.

          I’m leaving this country ASAP.

          • cielo62 says:

            Two Sides~ I’m just calling it like I see texans call it. What do you expect from the state that refused to even bring Joe Horn to trial?


          • Woow! says:

            You got that right…. horn should be on death row for shooting those men in the back.

          • cielo62 says:

            Woow~! In those days, I was one of the lone voices crying in the wilderness about due process, etc… against the concrete-headed racists of Houston who called him a hero and set up a defense fund for him. IN THE BACK! What a effen COWARD. Today I hear he’s a broke and broken man, living withdrawn from society with family supporting him. Hispanics are hated here even more than AAs.


          • Two sides to a story says:

            I’ve avoided that state for years, actually.

          • Woow! says:

            @Two sides to a story —

            Ceilo and I live in TX… it is what it is. The cops scare the bejeezus out of me in this state. I get a lot of DWB (driving while black).

            Cops like to get behind you or on the side and run your tag.

          • cielo62 says:

            Woow!~ Even as a “white hispanic” I also fear the cops around here. They have NO accountability.


          • pat deadder says:

            Oh Two sides I know it’s not funny but when you said I’m leaving this country ASAP it struck me funny.Seriously Canada is not perfect but we do have free heath and I don’t know anyone who owns a gun so if ever you want to uproot yourself and come to our country I’m an old lady but if I could help you I will.It is people like all of you that should make your country proud.After reading this blog I really think there is more of you than there is of them but I don’t go to the trash sites.

  27. Malisha says:

    The new “Fogen saved a truck full of people who, just happens, were ready to stand up and take a group feel-good photo right after the accident and it’s all so heart-warming” story made me realize, last night late, that I was even more likely to be right about what Fogen was doing on 2/26/2012. He had set out to do his hero thing and he chose Trayvon. Then he was gonna call him in to NEN, make sure NEN didn’t respond too soon (remember “I was running out of time”) and go after the thug himself, subdue him, get a little hurt and yell “help me help me” so he could use his loaded gun, and prove to the RTL community, and thence to the WORLD, that he should be made into a legitimate community hero to patrol with his gun. It was not so much a concerted efforts to get rid of Blacks in RTL as it was a small orchestrated scenario to get George his ribbons, his medals, his recognition so he could move on to better things.

    I have helped at the scene of a horrible car crash (twice, but once on my own until the firetrucks and ambulances arrived) and nobody even took my name (because I admitted not having SEEN the crash so therefore no witness). The second crash, when I called the hospital the next day to ask if I could find out if I needed to be tested for HIV (because I gave first aid to a guy who was covered in blood) they wouldn’t even speak with me. My name had not been given to anyone, much less the police, much less the ambulance crew. Nobody mentions witnesses although witnesses help out in probably half the car crashes that take place on a daily basis. Nobody takes group photos to show appreciation to witnesses either. Once I sent a check as a gift to people who helped my son after he had a crash; my friend who saved a life at a crash (pneumothorax after a motorcycle accident) couldn’t even get in to visit the patient even though SHE is a physician. The idea of making a news story out of somebody helping at a crash is too silly for me to belief — unless it’s a nine-year-old kid or a ninety-year-old woman or a dog named Lassie.

    Nope, this was the fall back “hero story” they were using because the “bring in your thug” story didn’t work as planned.

    And one more thing: This makes me even more positive that it was Osterman who planned out the Trayvon Martin scene, more than ever. Osterman, ex-sheriff (got fired but still has friends). Osterman, who advised Fogen to get a voice-stress test from Erwin (who conveniently “heard” Tracy Martin deny the scream?); Osterman, who did not come out making public statements until much later, but who appeared THAT NIGHT at the station and THE NEXT DAY at the station and who was, up until the little break-up they had, the “big guy” in the story.

    I bet if you scratch the surface of this little truck-turned-over crash you will find Osterman.

    • Deborah Moore says:

      Good Morning, Malisha
      Good points you’ve made about “witnesses” at an accident. I’ve had that experience too, but only once. Held the woman’s head in my lap while waiting for the ambulance. I was a bit of a nervous wreck by the time I got to work.
      Nice folks help each other. Fogen’s a User.
      Now, I have a question. As I was Late to the detailed following of the case – came here at the beginning of the jury “selection”…you know why I put that word in quotes – so I missed some of the background details.
      Can you tell me what the break up between the Ostermans and the Zimmermans was about? Thank you kindly, in advance.

      • Malisha says:

        No idea. They just seemed like “true blood brothers till the end” up until a certain point and then (well after the time that Fogen and Shellie lived with him and Sondra for 6 weeks) they seemed less “true” and Frank Taaffe appeared more often. I think, also, that Osterman didn’t like the fact that O’Mara said they “disavowed” the book just when he started to get so famous. Who knows, really; they’re such a dysfunctional bunch.

        • Deborah Moore says:

          Thanks. One of the aspects of watching the trial and the aftermath that has been so disturbing to me is seeing just how many dysfunctional folks are out there. “Racist and Proud”? Good Lord. Selected to be on a jury and then not following the instructions. Good Grief. My reaction to the poll that shows the huge difference in AA vs. White agreement or disagreement with the Verdict. Good God, Almighty.
          I can’t find that poll, maybe someone else has it. But, AA 80 something disagreement, White 30 something in disagreement.
          That’s some huge difference.

        • Two sides to a story says:

          Fogen wasn’t able to communicate with friends who ended up on the witness list. The Treestump didn’t like the Osterman book and felt it hurt Fogen.

          • Malisha says:

            If we believe Fogen and his friends obeyed the “sequestration” at any point along the way, then we are judgment-impaired. This guy and his crowd of Fogenite trogs never followed any of the rules either of court-ordered conduct (if it was not monitored in a way they couldn’t cheat) or of normal societal rules of decency. Believe me. Believe ME!

    • Endless Summer says:

      Malisha, I totally agree with everything you’ve said here. I too believe the whole thing was a set up, which is why the prosecution should have charged fogen with aggravated stalking and murder 1. They had all the evidence they needed to prove both of those charges: 1) The NEN call–“Are you following him?” “Yeah.” “S***, he’s running.” 2) Rachel Jeantel’s testimony of Trayvon trying to get away from fogen.

      Listening to the NEN call, fogen sounds like a bad actor. The call starts with a LIE: “there’s been a lot of break-ins in our neighborhood and there’s this real suspicious guy”. Both elements of that sentence were a lie. In the re-enactment the next day fogen sounds like an even worse actor.

      This “fogen to the rescue” story is ridiculous. The O’Mara/NRA PR campaign is still in full force. They are gearing up for the civil suit and the federal charges, if either are allowed to happen. Also notice that this happened less than a mile from RATL, so it sounds like he’s not really in hiding, and he didn’t leave Florida immediately like they said he did.

  28. KateW says:

    You all have thoughtful comments says:
    July 22, 2013 at 7:09 pm

    Thank you for joining the NAACP’s national movement seeking justice for Trayvon Martin.


Late last week, I met with Attorney General Eric Holder to discuss this case. He is committed to a thorough investigation of George Zimmerman. He also asked for patience during the Department of Justice review; this will be a long and arduous process.

    But patience does not mean inaction, C. And right now, there is something each of us can do.

    The DOJ has asked for public comment on the George Zimmerman case. Stand tall and let them know you support justice for Trayvon.

    As the legal process continues, we remain mindful of our responsibility to Trayvon and to all of our children. We know what enabled this tragedy — and we are methodically organizing to make sure it never happens again.

    Because if George Zimmerman didn’t break the law, then the law is broken.

    We are already working to repeal the legal framework — “stand your ground” laws — that made this verdict possible in the year 2013. We are fighting for strong anti-racial profiling laws. And we are demanding commonsense gun control legislation to reduce killings in all our communities.


We are not nearing the end of this struggle, but we fight on, and today we can take a concrete step toward this goal.

    Send your thoughts on the George Zimmerman case to the Department of Justice. Do so today, for all of our children.

More soon, 


Benjamin Todd Jealous
    President and CEO


  29. KateW says:

    The human heart, it guides us… – John Guy

    I believe the prosecution wanted to win, but perhaps they thought the jury would see what they saw. Common sense right? However, stealth jurors infiltrated and bullied, pressured or intimidated the others for a guilty vote to vote not guilty.

  30. acemayo says:

    Rhonda Rouer tells police when they parked next to a car with loud music at the Gate Station on Southside Boulevard November 23rd, Michael Dunn said “I hate that thug music” as he had said to her before.

    It seemks the new code for black males is thug
    so if black males is listing to music its thug music
    if you a group of whites boys walking down the street its just a group of boys walking down the street
    if a group of black boys walking down the street it becomes a gang of black boys walking down the

    Rouer claimed they did not know anyone was hurt and they went back to the hotel to take care of their dog Charlie.

    A dog well being is more important than a black male or males well being
    even when you know your man shot at a group of black males

    The prosecution is going to have to work very hard to make sure that the jury hears the witness take back the stashing comment, since he clarified he saw them stash nothing. The DA has to assume that the jury could be racist enough to latch onto those words, and I have no doubt the defense will try to use that clearly prejudiced (or imaginative) slip-up on the part of the witness.
    The idea that there could have been a weapon is absurd when no weapon was found. Also, Dunn alleges that he saw a shotgun barrel. Shotguns are pretty big and hard to miss or stash in some nook somewhere.

    A black male is reaching for something shoot him
    A black males looks like has a weapom shoot him
    I see a black male he’s tall and mean looking shoot him
    I fear for my life shot the person
    Another black male did wrong what this black male diff shoot him

    Check the percentage of white on white crimes(90%). Black on black crime is 86%. Some crimes not put into the public like other.

    • Girlp says:

      I’m hoping since there are live witness in the car and others outside the car this will help but I’m worried after readiing a few SYG cases….SYG need to be struck down.

  31. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Afterthought on the verdict:

    Serino, Singleton, BLDR accepted the impossible word “Punk”.

    Bleak consideration as the DOJ possibly might bring charges against gz for violating Trayvon’s civil rights:

    *FBI stated they were unable to determine the owner of the cry.

    *FBI concluded after interviewing 30 (?) people that gz was not racist.

    What is in store if the same FBI individuals are called upon again?

  32. crazy1946 says:

    Good morning America! We are one day closer to the possible trial of She-lie and we are also one day closer to the trial of the child murderer Michael Dunn! They are rapidly coming to pass and the questions mount as to how they will be handled! Will She-lie get the honor of actually going to trial for her lies in Judge Lester’s court room? Will Michael Dunn be freed after a SYG hearing, remember he did all the after murder stuff right, he remembered to claim he was fearful for his life, and continued to repeat that statement time after time and so will the fine citizens of Florida and their legal representatives allow yet another murderer to flout the system? Oh, what’s that you say, he did not exceed his bag limit on black children? How many black children are you allowed to bag per season and what are the legal hunting dates in Florida for black children? Florida, home of the free racists and the not so free black people….

  33. Digger says:

    Professor Leatherman, Thank you for this much needed unraveling inside look at this criminal behavior. Excellent post!!

  34. MrSykes says:

    Just curious. Does the DOJ investigation necessarily have to focus on the hate crime angle? Would it be possible for him to be brought up on violations of Trayvon’s right to movement and right to life, independent of race? That might seem like an easier case to make.

    • Malisha says:

      That’s what I’m working on, personally. Trying to draw up a proposal. But not ready to publish anything yet. Investigation of the cover-up, not of the murder.

  35. commenting says:

    People..go to yahoo, there aree 20 thousand comments on the article abot gz helping out in an accident..95% of them are racist ones..racist towards the black race…an4d I know tthese are young people posting these comments……gz had a ver high chance of being found not guilty; just look at the many racst people out there

    • Xena says:

      @commenting. Yahoo is a cesspool for mean-spirited folks. There’s one person who admitted to having 30 accounts. With the thumbs rating, he controls what comments are hidden with massive thumbs down, and which comments cannot be hidden due to massive thumbs up.

      Yahoo allows racial slurs, and personal attacks. Around April of last year, I stopped commenting on Yahoo articles and also printed out the hate-speech and sent it to advertisers on those pages.

      The White Supremacists camp out on any article about GZ and/or race and/or President Obama, spamming the board with hatred. Unless anyone is going to babysit the boards, their comments will be 20 pages down in a matter of an hour.

  36. kenteoth says:

    Remember the comment that the defendant made during the hannity insanity? He said it was “God’s plan” to kill Trayvon? He thinks that his ploy for attention will change things for him….I don’t think so…..Think about what the idiots that built the Titanic said……”Not even God himself cannot sink it”….well you know what happened……loose lips sink ships….the defendant is no exception and GOD is NOT AMUSED….all I am gonna say………

  37. Mary Harvill says:

    Hello Mr. Leatherman,
    Thank you for your keen insight, commentary and opinion throughout the Trayvon Martin case. I hope you will also consider joining the NAACP effort to provide public comment to Attorney General Eric Holder in support of the Justice Department investigation. Though these investigations can be long and tedious, I think it is a worthwhile effort in this situation.

    Thank you also for “calling out” juror B37 for what she is–to which I would add she was intellectually lazy when it came time to truly read and understand the jury instructions.

    I wish your blog had even greater exposure. I feel lucky to be a reader.

    Mary from Spokane, WA–a city that had a DOJ investigation and clean-up of its police practices and force after the wrongful death of Otto Zehm, a white, mentally impaired janitor, repleat with a corrupt police investigation.

  38. Last night my boyfriend called me from the kitchen “Hey George Zimmerman came out of hiding and rescued some people from an overturned truck”He stood pointing at his screen and grinning.
    Now I live in Amsterdam in Europe and the article was in dutch!
    Breaking News as if it were the gospel truth.

    Who are these people connected to? It’s just to much to bear, all the trouble they are going to to fuck with perception. What’s next?
    Vote fcking Fogen for President?

    • Malisha says:

      Either he can be attorney general of the US or the chief justice of the US Supreme Court. All we need is for Sondra Osterman to throw another party for him (a law school party this time) and then the wire services will pick it up and he’ll be in! If anybody tries not to vote for him, B-37 will have her husband take care of them.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Oh, Lordy. Fogen for President. Idiocracy.

    • crazy1946 says:

      Perhaps they will change the name of the county from Seminole to Zimmerhole in honor of their hero, the legendary child slayer who allows no black child to go untouched…..

    • Fogen is a liar, a killer, and a thief who profiled an unarmed Black teenager, Trayvon Benjamin Martin. He then surveilled Trayvon from his truck, followed Trayvon on foot, hunted Trayvon down, and shot Trayvon in the heart while Trayvon begged, pleaded, and screamed for Fogen not to kill him. Fogen then lied on Trayvon and stole Trayvon’s screams as his own.

      I would believe nothing that comes from Fogen’s or his protectors’ mouths.

  39. bettykath says:

    I just watched the after verdict press conference. I do not like Angela Corey’s presumptive star approach. I suspect that Mantei is actively looking for work elsewhere. He really doesn’t like what happened.

    • longtimegeek says:

    • Malisha says:

      Yeah. I think, looking at it, that Mantei is the only one who is appropriately upset about what happened. And he probably got duped. As did we. As did we all, pretty much. Atrocious. May those who are now experiencing their duping delight reap the opposite a thousand fold when the eventualities eventuate.

    • KateW says:

      Mantei should have closed.

      • Dave says:

        That was my gut feeling too, but he had more than enough to do as it was. Mantei was the guy who had to do most of the heavy lifting on the case: researching and arguing case law and researching all the technical stuff to question the expert witnesses etc. The man was brilliant but there’s only one of him.

  40. Malisha says:

    Here’s the tweet (I’m so BAD at this!):

    @nyclu: . @TonyaPinkins begins by talking about #Trayvon case: “Until we protect everyone’s life interest, we will not have a democracy.” #StandUp

  41. Malisha says:

    Tonight Broadway Actress/Singer Tonya Pinkins sang at the NYCLU gala, and then she made a brief speech:

    The Constitution guarantees us that we will not be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process. For more than 200 years, there have been litigations over the liberty interests that flow from liberty but do not EQUAL liberty; there have been litigations over the property interests that pertain to but do not equal PROPERTY. But not one case in over 250 years about the interest that flows from life itself. The only way we lose life, it seems, is by being killed. Until we are killed we have no interest in our life — and after we are killed, only our survivors have that.

    So Trayvon Martin, for instance, had no protective constitutional interest before the moment that a hollowpoint bullet ripped into his heart. Under our laws, as they stand now, even caselaw.

    I SAY that he had a life interest in walking home unmolested. I say he had a life interest in not being profiled. I say he had a life interest in the protection of the Sanford Police who should already have warned Zimmerman that he was not allowed to patrol, armed, in a residential community just because he set himself up as a white watchgod.

    And did Trayvon Martin have a life interest in self-defense? Apparently NOT.

    Because the life interest Trayvon Martin had received no protection, he was put into a situation — LEGALLY — where his life could be taken away from him and nobody could be held responsible.

    This is not about standing your ground. The ground on which Trayvon Martin was murdered was not Zimmerman’s ground; the life interest of Trayvon Martin would have dictated that the ground he was killed on was the same ground he had a life interest in STANDING ON.

    Until we protect every child’s life interest in this country, we cannot have democracy.

    And apparently NYCLU has now re-tweeted:

    “Until we protect every child’s life interest in this country, we cannot have democracy.”

  42. Malisha says:

    Oh Hey, I know where the lady with the “Racist and proud of it” sign shops: HERE!

    • Malisha says:

      Oh I saw that ignoramus’s sign (the proud racist) and I cracked up and I still can’t breathe properly. She should be sued for long-distance malicious oxygen deprivation.

      On the bright side, she was able to spell words with more than one syllable! She’s probably a high school teacher in Texas!

      • cielo62 says:

        Malisha~ ‘sigh’ I bet you are right about that! The worst part about these dueling protests was that it was done in River Oaks, a ritzy part of town. They must have imported some of those CACs in the camo to march there. Quarnel X is a stupid rabble rouser and we’re better off without him. The other protests, set up by the NAACP in front of city hall were all peaceful.


        • fauxmccoy says:

          for the life of me i will never understand what the oft heard phrase ‘if zimmerman is a white hispanic, then obama is a white black’ even MEANS.


          • 😀 Americans really do not understand history or sociology. Hispanic is an ethnicity, not a race. A person can be a black Hispanic or a white Hispanic. But most people we view as Hispanic are mulatto, sambo (an archiaic term), or mestizo. The distinction most telling in the USA, however, is that white Hispanics are not considered as white as non-hispanic whites which are considered separate categories so we know how many REAL whites there are left in the country.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            am an anthropologist by training and education. i get it.

            what puzzles me is what does this phrase even mean to these dopes? it clearly puts their ignorance on full display (much like the ‘get a brain, morans!’ sign did). but what message are they even hoping to convey? i honestly do not get it, but ‘it’ is apparently important to these folks.

          • cielo62 says:

            faux mccoy~he’s trying to imply that white and hispanic don’t go together, like white and black don’t go together. IOWs he’s a total idiot.


          • fauxmccoy says:

            @cielo — dear god, that is even more vile than anything my imagination could dream up 😦

          • racerrodig says:

            Trust me, that guy is nowhere near as smart as an idiot……trust me, and the stupid (insert insult here) with the racist & proud sign..
            …words escape me, but I can hear her on that cell phone “…did ya’ll see me wit my sign……damn glad I did that too, check the mail, maa gun git there yet?”

          • “what puzzles me is what does this phrase even mean to these dopes? it clearly puts their ignorance on full display (much like the ‘get a brain, morans!’ sign did). but what message are they even hoping to convey? i honestly do not get it, but ‘it’ is apparently important to these folks.”

            Well, I’ve heard this protest before. But the meaning they are trying to convey versus what educated people get is different. In this white supremacist society, a person is considered the category that embodies the lowest rank, for lack of a better word, in the socioeconomic hierarchy. This is particularly the case when they find themselves in trouble. So a person who is black and white can only be called black. A person who is non-hispanic white and some other kind of Hispanic, is Hispanic. (Tiger Woods learned this rule the hard way.) This protects the purity and superiority of “whiter” people. By not following this rule, particularly when it’s an issue of racism, exposes the conundrum of white supremacy. White people would rather not be conscious that it exists.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            holy crap — it is even sicker than i could have imagined. i’m sorry you had to explain it. i’m an educated woman, but this shit is foreign to me.

  43. Malisha says:


    Headline: Developing Story

    Earlier reports of Fogen pulling four uninjured decent Americans out of an overturned truck in a near-fatal injury-free crash on a dangerous intersection has been clarified by a re-enactment and a post-accident cartoon.

    In the videotaped reenactment, all four uninjured accident victims waved their arms and yelled “Crash, crash, crash” while Fogen, dressed in khakis and a clean white golf polo, sank slightly into his flexed knees and described how he extracted each terrified passenger without giving any of them cooties. “It was amazing,” the trembling matron intoned, “He saved us all and he didn’t even FART!” The father of the family added, “We just thank God he went to Kokopelli’s gym! Otherwise we would have been uninjured for a LOT LONGER than we were, lying there in the upside-down schruck.” One of the two children (whose faces are x’s due to a rare congenital disease) claimed that he was crying before being rescued because his daddy couldn’t reach his beer. The unidentified innocent minor child said, “whenever my dad turns the car over we lose half the beer and he tries to comfort us by taking us out for soft-serve ice cream, but THIS TIME we’re gonna donate our ice cream money to Mr. Fogen for saving us!”

    Frank Taaffe could not be reached for comment. Mark Osterman was reportedly at the ATM machine looking for his own beer. Shelli has distributed big knuckle bandaids to all the uninjured parties.

    • KA says:

      OMG…I have tears…LOL

    • racerrodig says:

      You’re killing me. This entire story is shit… need for a fart.

      Did he say to the white victims…….”Take a life……save a life… we’re even”

    • Deborah Moore says:

      Malisha! You’re making us all cry with laughter.
      Good going, girl.
      (wiping a tear.)
      Thank you.

    • Girlp says:


    • LBTG says:

      The thing missing from this story is the accident victims being interviewed by TV organizations. Sanford Police Department Capt. Jim McAuliffe told the news organizations [ABC, Fox, etc] that Zimmerman, 29, was identified by a crash victim as the man who pulled him from the mangled vehicle.

    • longtimegeek says:

      Since my sense of humor seems to have returned fully, I just searched for satires. Here’s another one. It’s a week old.

      • jodiwankanobi says:

        oh God that was good….i love it. I respond well to sarcasm and usually rely on it when i’m trying to express my distaste for something so this is right up my alley. and he makes sense too!!!!!! thanks for posting

    • longtimegeek says:

      Here’s another satire. It is two-and-a-half weeks old!

      • longtimegeek says:

        Oops. Sorry! I didn’t cut-and-paste properly. Here’s the other video, and it’s description:

        Published on Jul 4, 2013

        This video is satirical because we don’t feel it’s being handled properly. From the very beginning, starting with the Sanford police, America has shown itself to be very typical in it’s treatment towards minorities. Blacks have been treated unfairly for centuries and this case shows that the mindset of white America is still in tact. Denial and hypocrisy are at the forefront of our existence as a nation.

    • aussie says:

      In breaking news, eye-witness John Bad said the truck had skidded on the concrete and rolled over. Sideways. Maybe horizontally. Sort of on top of the grass but on the concrete and spun sideways. No not really a spin more like a roll. He yelled out don’t worry I am calling 911 but the truck kept sliding. When he looked up again from his phone the passengers were standing outside the vehicle; he stated he did not see them being rescued but he knows they were otherwise they would still be inside.

  44. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Thank you for joining the NAACP’s national movement seeking justice for Trayvon Martin.


Late last week, I met with Attorney General Eric Holder to discuss this case. He is committed to a thorough investigation of George Zimmerman. He also asked for patience during the Department of Justice review; this will be a long and arduous process.

    But patience does not mean inaction, C. And right now, there is something each of us can do.

    The DOJ has asked for public comment on the George Zimmerman case. Stand tall and let them know you support justice for Trayvon.

    As the legal process continues, we remain mindful of our responsibility to Trayvon and to all of our children. We know what enabled this tragedy — and we are methodically organizing to make sure it never happens again.

    Because if George Zimmerman didn’t break the law, then the law is broken.

    We are already working to repeal the legal framework — “stand your ground” laws — that made this verdict possible in the year 2013. We are fighting for strong anti-racial profiling laws. And we are demanding commonsense gun control legislation to reduce killings in all our communities.


We are not nearing the end of this struggle, but we fight on, and today we can take a concrete step toward this goal.

    Send your thoughts on the George Zimmerman case to the Department of Justice. Do so today, for all of our children.

More soon, 


Benjamin Todd Jealous
    President and CEO


  45. smokeegyrl says:

    I know y’all heard that Fogen became superman and saved the day and pulled a unconscious man out of his vehicle from a overturned vehicle… but they have no record of the accident. This is on Sheriffs account to the Sanford PD.

    • roderick2012 says:

      I guess George is going on ride-alongs with Florida Highway Patrol now.


    • Malisha says:

      No record of the accident and here’s another interesting thing: NO INJURIES??

      If “NO INJURIES” how the Hell come they couldn’t get out by their damnselves? How come you have to pull uninjured people out of a schruck that isn’t even burning? Huh?

      • KA says:

        Actually, you are not suppose to. He would have learned that…the fact the police are praising him for that is stupid. It would be against his training.

        Secondly, it seems it life needs to parallel Trayvon’s….Trayvon saved his dad from a fire….not GZ saves from a overturned car?

        Hmmm…that is a little convenient.

    • KA says:

      Yeah, a man rated a 0.5 out of 10 on the “strength” ability by his trainer when he was 100 lbs lighter is now puling grown adults out of an overturned car?

      Yeah, I am not buying it either. BTW….until first certified people get there, if there is no fire or smoking seen from the car or it is submerged in water, you are not suppose to MOVE PEOPLE from an accident. Many additional injuries can result. The police are PRAISING him for it? Was there a fire? I read there was not, so actually, he did not do what is correct in the situation.

      Outside of that, I am just not buying it. I think it is a PR stunt for the police and the defense.

      • racerrodig says:

        The story is Buuuuuuullllllllllllsssshhhiiiiiiiiitttttttt.

        Up until today everything about FogenPhoole says he’s in hiding and hasn’t left the house. Okay I buy that.

        Now he saved accident victims last Wednesday……Nooooo.

        If he did we’d have heard about last fucking Wednesday.

        Gee. The FBI and DOJ just went to Sanford today and grabbed the evidence.

        Do I look like I was born yesterday ??????

        Typical Zidiot Behavior.

    • Jasmine says:

      Ooo Ooo question wouldn’t the accident ‘victims’ need that police report in order to do an insurance claim? And who turned their vehicle right-side up? Yeah (sarcastic smirk on my face) I need more information.
      See these ‘journalist’ aren’t journalist at all. They hear something and just repeat it. They don’t even investigate to make sure that their information is correct. Journalism is dead.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:


    • bettykath says:

      “As I noted in a POLITICO story Sunday, the statement last week from ACLU Executive Director Anthony Romero spoke of the “imperative” to carry out a federal civil rights and hate crimes investigation. However, ACLU policy opposes federal retrials in cases already tried in state courts.

      “That policy, rejecting such successive trials as a violation of the Constitution’s double jeopardy clause, was settled on following a fractious debate in the early 1990s over the Rodney King case.”

      This means that last week’s memo urging the DoJ to NOT prosecute fogen stands. An earlier memo urging an investigation is the one that was pulled.

    • racerrodig says:

      I’m not surprised considering the e-mails a few of us sent them.

  46. abbyj1 says:

    This article just showed up that confirms the sheriff’s office allowed unsupervised visits between jurors and outsiders, therefore jury tampering. Talk about a fix.

    • roderick2012 says:

      @ abbyj1,

      It also shows what a lying b!tch Judge Nelson is.

      Remember she said she wanted to hurry the trial along because she didn’t want the jurors to be away from their families.

      F-n bullcrap!!

    • bettykath says:

      don’t have the reference but iirc, family visits to a sequestered jury requires an agreement with the defendant with both sets of attorneys present. I don’t remember that happening. Or maybe it was done in private.

    • cielo62 says:

      Endless~ YES!! I hope more will join them!


    • ladystclaire says:

      @Endless Summer and everyone here, we can take part in this boycott of Florida also. if there are any HSN shoppers on this blog site, DO NOT ORDER ANYTHING FROM HSN. I myself will not be placing anymore orders with them. as a matter of fact, I have canceled my auto ship order with them because, I will not spend one red penny in that racist of states.

      There is NO good reason as to why this POS murdered a child and got away with it. I am not going to send my comments about this case to Eric Holder. BTW, if you must shop online, try QVC,, or any other shop online site. but, please refrain from shopping with HSN as it is based in Florida.

  47. Malisha says:


    Headline: Fogen saves family from utter destruction

    Earlier today a schruck turned over and four decent Americans were pinned inside. None of them could reach his or her side-arm to shoot his or her way out. Screams of “Help we’ve fallen down and we can’t reach our guns” reverberated from the vehicle and spread out across the neighborhood as bystanders and thugs alike stood still, refusing to render assistance because their hearts were not in the right place. Hidden within sound-reach but out of sight, Fogen stood quivering with indecision: should he risk his life and approach the upturned schruck and save the Americans or should he think only of his own life and stay put, refusing to render aid? “Help me Help me Help me” he heard. It tore at his heartstrings. Tear, tear, tear. “What’s that damned racket?” demanded Shellie from the rear of the secret annex where they crouched in terror.

    “Someone NEEDS ME!” whispered Fogen. 😯

    “WHY?” his nurse/wife asked in a breathless tone. ❓

    “Because they’re pinned helpless and defenseless under a BLACK SCHRUCK!” he exclaimed, rising and squaring his shoulders, “And I am going to save them even though I risk my life to do so … Donnelly would have it no other way!” ❗

    Shellie remained frozen in terror, hoping that her husband would return from yet another dangerous adventure out in that terrible world, exposing himself to all manner of depredations just to save his unworthy neighbors — ah, poor Fogen, please Lord protect his sissy ass and bring him back to me in one piece without another broken nose and bonkered noggin — 😥

    Far off, Jeralyn sat trembling in her modernistic office, surrounded by books of the law and tubes and jars of jellies and creams — she, too, was frightened for Fogen’s safety, poor heroic soul — ah, ahhh, ahhhh ahhhhhhh ahhhhhhhhhh ooops! 😳

    Fogen bursts forth from his hiding places.

    Formaldehyding places he bursts forth —
    bursting forth, at the same time, from his seams —
    seems —

    YES! He saves them! (No injuries. Oh maybe a little capillary-type laceration … ) THE GREAT WHITE HOPE!

    By-line: The ghost of Thomas Dixon.

    • cielo62 says:

      Malisha~ You wield a deadly pen!


      • Malisha says:

        Cielo, ephcharisto. And I did learn the necessary Greek (when working in a diner on the highway back in the 60s):

        To Fogen: (from Homer, of course):

        Agamisu, Malagia, Fogen kai Fogenites.
        (I have to transliterate because I don’t know how to do the Greek letters on this keyboard.)

    • dianetrotter says:

      You are insane Malisha!

      • Malisha says:

        thanks baby! 😈

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Is it me? Or does anyone else get the feeling that gz is moving his plot lines along just a little too fast? That family he “rescued” had better be a part of his loyal entourage, or they just might develop some medical problems and sue him. George would certainly settle rather than be revealed as a fraud.

          Let’s see what his next project gets him. I’m pretty sure that by the end of the summer, at the outside, he’ll be embroiled in some kind of conflagration. Probably with people on his own side.

          • cielo62 says:

            Lonnie~ That would be prime time material. Zimiots at each other’s throats… and wallets!


          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Since gz doesn’t pay and I’m sure these people expect compensation for their efforts, it needs to be explained far and wide, that gz’s fund raising effort have been raised immeasurably by these efforts. My guess is he could have taken in another 100k or more because of what these “rescued” people did for him. Surely they should feel entitled to a few thousands of dollars share of the reward.

    • Two sides to a story says:


    • Girlp says:


  48. So Fogen allegedly rescued a family a mile away from where he murdered Trayvon, mere days after his acquittal? And this is according to the SPD, who were the main ones accused of a cover up? Anybody else calling BS?

    1. Fogen begged the judge to allow him to leave Seminole county because he feared for his life. Yet, he stays there even after his acquittal where the threat against his life is greater than ever, why?

    Maybe this is my bias speaking but I find it very strange how perfectly timed this is. If Fogen did actually do this, however, and I highly doubt that he did, then good for him. I wish he did the same for Trayvon and offered him a ride rather than profile him as a criminal, hunt him down and murder him.

  49. Shari says:

    Twitter is reporting on the car crash. So far no mention of Fogen in the initial 911 reports. Could it be true? Anything is possible but so far no evidence he saved anyone.

    • crazy1946 says:

      Shari, Now think for just a moment if the Fogdoit was the one that reported the accident, he would have had to call the NEN instead of 911, how do you think he could call 911 he looked at his phone and could not figure out how to dial the eleven part…..

    • KateW says:

      Probably a farce and now they are trying to place him at the scene of every good Samaritan incident. His attorney has even said this killer made no mention of it to him. The guy is a coward in fear for his life so all of a sudden he stops on a busy street or highway where he can be spotted and “killed”. I really doubt it.

    • Malisha says:

      He doesn’t need evidence.
      He makes it up and Erwin comes in and gives him a voice stress test and then it’s Holy Scripture and God’s Plan. And Hannity features him (that will be next, watch!) talking about it and looking all “modest” about his heroism.

      I swear somebody needs to …

  50. KateW says:

    Dr. Cornell West reaction to Obama speech.
    Excellent interview.

    • Woow! says:

      Cornell West do not like POTUS and he bashes him every chance he gets. West and Tavis Smiley are a disgrace.

      • KateW says:

        Well he makes some valid points but I have to admit Obama has done very little for the African American community. As far as this case, I am very skeptical that he will do anything or have anything done about this injustice because of the statement he made about basically rolling over and accepting the verdict that the jury spoke. Just as West said I hope they aren’t placating to the people just to shut them up and then sweep this under the rug.

        I am no so in love with Obama that I can’t be critical of some of the things he’s done. As this guy said…it was a beautiful speak but will it lead to action and that is the real question.

        • Woow! says:

          Obama has played it safe his entire presidency and he runs away from issues involving race. Why? The right has no problem calling him name or a racist.

          He has not used his platform to help anyone.

          I get so tired of him caving in to everything. He needs to get some backbone and tell the good ole boys club where to go. I know that compromises has to be made but damn, he give in on everything.

          • KateW says:

            I agree Woow. He is the President! They can call him what they will but you know what, at the end of the day he is in that chair, not them. Other Presidents had no problem doing what they wanted to do. I still believe Bush and Cheney should be in prison but that is my take on it. He has this platform and he should use it to illicit change and not just praying and hoping things will change for the African American community.

          • cielo62 says:

            Woow!~ He did NOT give in on healthcare for all. He did NOT give in on killing Bin Laden. I would have preferred to have voted for Hillary back then, but Obama is what we had, and I went with him. He’s done as well as anybody COULD given how fucked up Bush left this country after 8 years of marauding and looting by his party’s buddies.


        • KateW says:

          speech not speak

        • crazy1946 says:

          Let’s talk politics for a moment (darn I hate to do that!). We are rapidly coming up on the mid term elections, and the opposition party would be quick to use any statement the POTUS uses against his supporters and their candidates. We have a government that the founding fathers separated into three separate by equal parts. If the POTUS demanded that the Judicial branch force what we consider justice upon the Fogdoit, the opposition would be up in arms and it could possibly do much damage to the stability of our nation. If you were in his position would you run head long into a fight you would probably lose or would you try to do an end run to try to solve the problem?

      • Deborah Moore says:

        Disgrace? You call West and Smiley a disgrace?
        I don’t.
        I disagree with you.

        • Woow! says:

          You are entitled to your opinion and I stand by mine:)
          Cornell and West are equal opertunity idiots. Once those two started their rants criticizing POTUS it opened the door and created the current climate for white pseudo journalists to attack the POTUS. It all began with those two.

          Cornell was all for POTUS than all of a sudden the bashing. Why? because he felt snubbed for an invite? The same for Smiley. If they had legitimate reasons no one would think twice but they are both like whinny women who could not have their way.

          • Deborah Moore says:

            Thanks for allowing me my opinion.
            You think They opened the door for criticism? Pish. I say. That’s just silly talk to me.
            Stand by your computer and your opinion. You definitely keep the comments coming here, and I happen to be fond of Fred and Rachel and their efforts here.
            I just happen to disagree with you.

          • KateW says:

            Ok now calling them idiots is going a bit too far. These two men have a great deal of experience and they are familiar with what they are talking about. They should be able to critic the President and offer their perspective as well.

          • Woow! says:

            @Deborah Moore isn’t it nice when grown folks can debate express views ….. love this site.

        • Malisha says:

          I have nothing negative to say about either of them.

    • Nef05 says:

      I’m a fan of Dr. West and I agree he has/had valid points. However, his incessant bashing of Pres. Obama tends to take some of the focus away from some of the very good points he makes. This is coming from someone who buys a ticket to see him speak when ever he comes to town, receives feeds from his FB page and tries to stay informed on his media interviews/articles.

      I do wish he and Tavis Smiley would be a bit more selective in their criticism. I do not believe the President is perfect. I disagree with some (more than a little, less than a LOT) of what he’s done. But, Dr. West’s (and Smiley’s) constant criticisms of EVERY little thing he does/doesn’t do, are a bit much to take. Holding a president accountable is one thing. What they do goes beyond that. (JMO).

      • Malisha says:

        I’ll never forget Wanda Sykes roasting Obama and she said something like, “All of you are acting so glad he’s been elected, you all came down to congratulate him, you’re dancing in the streets. Just wait til he makes his first mistake. You’ll be saying, ‘Did YOU vote for the Mulatto’?” And he and the Mrs. both cracked up.

    • Nef05 says:

      Most of the time Scarborough makes me want to tell him to STFU and stop interrupting everyone who disagrees with him, in order to deflect to something irrelevant to the topic (GOP SOP). But, I will admit, he does sometimes get it right (as in this instance and also gun control- imo).

  51. acemayo says:

    Zimmerman’s parents, meanwhile, have told ABC News that they have received death threats and have been unable to return to their home following the verdict

    “We have had an enormous amount of death threats,” Robert Zimmerman said. “George’s legal counsel has had death threats, the police chief of Sanford, many people have had death threats … ‘Everyone with Georgie’s DNA should be killed’ — just every kind of horrible thing you can imagine.”

    Read more:

    Call the police get them arrested
    What the FBI can’t trace the callers
    If the FBI can’t do get the CIA
    Call HomeLand Secuity

    • sparger says:

      If their dumb kid has been arrested that night. They wouldn’t have this problem. George has always been a problem for them. Once the honeymoon phase is over they will go back to ignoring George like the rest of the world.

    • Woow! says:

      I don’t believe they are receiving death threats. I think their claim is a charade to get money. If they were receiving death threat you can bet they would have reported it to LE

      • pat deadder says:

        I don’t understand how are they receiving death threats if they are in hiding.My god who are these people. Please don’t tell me they are a normal family.

    • KateW says:

      I am not buying it!! Their son is a liar and they are liars. Produce this evidence these crazy people being threatened. I am sure they have a recorder somewhere.

      I suppose they are feeling left out of this high profile status and they want a security detail as well paid for by the government. I have heard people on the blog call people POS. Well this whole family are POS and I don’t feel sorry for them. Their son killed an innocent kid and to add insult to injury they ran his name through the mud. They said Martin was the real racist, they blamed the victim for the tragedy instead of where it should have squarely been placed, they degraded the family of this slain teen, and it was everyone elses fault but their son.

      No I don’t feel sorry for them. At all.

    • cielo62 says:

      acemayo~ LOL! Imagine the death threats they don’t even KNOW about! I wish them all some terrible terrible painful karma but that won’t get me arrested. If those “threats” are real, by all means, track them down…


      • acemayo says:

        Remember after so many hours after he shot TM he went into
        hiding because of death threats you forget he was getting
        evited from his home for not paying his rent if you look at it in another way GZ was trespasses he had not right to be there
        How can you get death threats if no matter know what you did.

  52. Malisha says:

    Just think. If they had locked up poor Fogen for just killing one thuggy pBa-lack kid, that family would still be there under their truck, with nobody to help! Kinda reminds you of Sherman Ware with nobody to help (remember the NAACP was too busy?) and the poor kids who needed mentoring but if Fogen wouldn’t go to the bad part of town to mentor them, nobody woulda helped.

    Fogen is our great white hope! He’s the only one who helps! That’s why “nobody helped” when he cried out “help me help me help me” when somebody LIGHTER THAN A TRUCK was on top of poo widdow him!

    • crazy1946 says:

      Malisha, we’ve heard that BS story about mentoring two black children so many times that I have started to wonder if anyone has checked to see if there are two black children missing in unsolved cases in the Seminole County Florida area? Something just does not seem right about that claim, if he had done mentoring, then his attorney would have produced the children as proof of his good character, however is the children were missing and not to be found then they can not produce them…. Maybe some one needs to check for missing children over the last five years in the area……

  53. Stormwatch says:

    Amen Professor.. and thank you.
    I will take it a step farther. I am of the opinion that the defendant may have committed first degree murder. I think he intended to shoot TM that night and was going to use his NEN call as the backdrop. He had his canvas, then he tried to paint the picture that would justify him shooting the kid. All the “he looks like he’s on drugs” and “he’s up to no good”.. he was just laying the foundation for the murder he was about to commit.

    • Nef05 says:

      I tend to agree, based on the TWO flashlight thing. John Guy emphasized that in his opening, but no one ever made it an issue. At some point fogen made a CONSCIOUS decision to pick up a second flashlight. I suspect it was before he left the house. But, even if it was simply from the glovebox, it’s an indication he knew he was going hunting. You don’t need a flashlight to go find a street sign. You don’t need a flashlight to get and address. And even if you did, you don’t need TWO.

      AND – since he had these flashlights, why didn’t he use them to get this address that he allegedly couldn’t see, but which was illuminated by the porchlight over his right shoulder?

      He went hunting. You know it. I know it. The prosecution knew it. The defense knew it. The jury knew it. Even the racists knew it. Anything else is simply ridiculous.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Of course we all know it. How many people go shopping for lunch fixings at Target packing a cocked gun and two flashlights? Absurd.

        • crazy1946 says:

          Trained Observer, you fail to mention no money and no credit cards! Hmmm, hard choice he had to make, rob a Target Store or murder a black child. I guess he made the choice that was best for him, had he robbed the store he would have gone to jail…. But murder a child he becomes a racist folk hero…. too fat to fly, but fit enough to be able to leap over small piles of dog crap!! What a hero……

        • Woow! says:

          With $2 in our pocket and no credit whay was he purchasing to eat.

    • Woow! says:

      I don’t think he thought that far ahead or was smart enough to think of a plan.

      He went out looking for a black man and found TM, his gun was already drawn, TM tried to get away or may have fought back, he killed the kid and the neighbors that witnessed the incident and the police covered up what he did. JN prohibited any mention or race and the higher up tried to steer clear of race for unknown reasons instead of calling it like it was.

      MOM took advantage of the fact prosecution came out the door and said race did not play a part and ran with the scary big black thug and took race to a whole different level.

      This case was f/up from the beginning with police investigation to the judge not issuing a gag order to the prosecution no following through on cross examination.

    • type1juve says:

      I don’t care what he did or does in the future. That does not negate the fact that he murdered a teenager in cold blood and got away with it.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      It occurs to me that he would have entered the corridor only seconds behind Trayvon. A quick look would be all it takes to know that Trayvon could not have covered all that distance, and therefore must be in hiding.

      He then goes over to Jon Manalo’s where he helps apply the blood and scratches, then he’s back out on the hunt. Someone pulled strings to handcuff the prosecution, probably at the governors level. He appointed loyal followers to get the job undone. There are probably big rewards in store for the prosecutors, should the governor win reelection.

  54. Nef05 says:

    OT: HRH Prince William and HRH Princess William are the proud parents of a baby boy. HRH “Baby Boy” Windsor is 3rd in line to the throne, after his grandfather Prince Charles and his father. Congratulations to the happy couple.

    Colin, if you’re around – drink a health to the new baby for me. It’s good to celebrate the positive things happening in our world, even as we contemplate and plan what needs to be done to change the negative things in our world. 🙂

    • Some choice comments:

      Unbelievable • 20 minutes ago −
      Yeah right! This MURDERER has been in hiding since the verdict. He just happened to come out of hiding and pop up at an accident scene and save a family!!! lol Who is he, Superman? Give me a f—ing break!!!!!

      jollyf • an hour ago −
      Yeah, no injuries, I bet. Well Zimmerman, you finally came outside to rescue someone; how long did it take you to get to the staged scene? how many of them were your friends helping you look like a person helping society?

      Crawl back into your hole; the one thing I have learned in my 50 years hear on earth is that the media does all it can to sway the minds of the masses; it is not working for me.

      Simply amazing, the same way you happened to be out on that rainy February night by chance, right? Wrong.

      TVP • an hour ago −
      So let me make sure I understand this correctly… he’s got enough strength to help rescue a family from an overturned vehicle, but not enough energy to get a 154 lb. teenager off him without shooting him in the heart at point blank range with a hollow point bullet??

      Oh. Ok.

    • I believe nothing that comes from Fogen’s mouth. More than not, this is the likely scenario:

      While blasting his favorite band’s song, “You’re Gonna Die Tonight,” Fogen sped up to and tailgated a truck that was going in the same direction as his Honda Ridgeline along a Florida highway. He mumbled something like,”Those Chevys, they always get away!” He then flicked his wrist and sharply veered into the family’s truck, causing it to fishtail, hit a concrete barricade, and flip over. As police arrived, Fogen told them that he was simply yelling for someone to detain… help the family out of their overturned vehicle. And of course, Fogen
      was struck by a piece of the concrete barricade.


    • type1juve says:

      I don’t care what he did or does in the future. That does not negate the fact that he murdered a teenager in cold blood and got away with it.

      • I cannot forget the words it was “God’s plan” for him to shoot and kill Trayvon…..yes he assisted someone in their time of need and he stayed to talk to the police so he could get recognition……I heard an accident happen near my house and went to assist the people involved…brought them bottled water because it was 113 that day and I drove one of the victims home because his car was totaled and no one was available to give him a ride……I never gave the police my name and only gave the person I drove home my first name and left it at that…..the defendant is only trying to make himself look good to cover the horrible act he did to Trayvon……the DOJ is investigating and even if they fail to do anything one thing is for certain….people who mock GOD often do not fare very well after that……the defendant is no exception……he better get it together and take responsibility for his choices because GOD IS NOT AMUSED…….

        • Trained Observer says:

          Fogen is a sicko … he’ll be popping into save and rescue all around to a point where he becomes Letterman material for his do-gooder antics. That won’t change the fact that he murdered Trayvon Martin after racially profiling and stalking him.

  55. ay2z says:

    Amidst the problems that we discuss and read, some of which are very difficult to grasp, to even read, there’s a birth of international importance– Princess Diana of Wales, postumously, will become a grandmother today.

    Here’s a Canadian live link. Diana changed the humanity, humanism, of the British royaal family.

    Reporters are doing dry camera audio tests– looks like a hot evening in London!

    Looks like a black repporter, voices in the background are in various languages, accents, even sounded like Piers M at one point.

    Something is beginning to ramp up.

  56. Malisha says:

    I was thinking about anonymous jurors again.

    Anonymous jurors have no stake in honest deliberations. If judges are not anonymous, neither should jurors be so. If the police cannot protect jurors (and they HAVE, even in Mafia trials!) they cannot pretend to be enforcing ANY law and we should all just go NRA on everyone and shoot whomever we want.

    • pat deadder says:

      Are the jurors names supposed to come out after 6 months bet they won’t.

      • cielo62 says:

        Pat- they requested permanent anonymity right after the verdict was read.


        • pat deadder says:

          cielo62 They requested permanent anonymity.OMG you’ve got to be kidding.Well has that ever been allowed before.This is outrageous.fogen and them belong together frigging cowards.I hope the press fights this..If JN is the decision maker they will get their way.I think JN must have been at the bottom of her class.There were common words she could not pronounce.And she was rude to Rachael.Any ruling she made without taking home she screwed up.

  57. Malisha says:

    Witness tampering in a murder case is a felony punishable by up to life in prison.

    This may sound perverse, but I would actually LOVE it if Serino and Tim Smith had to do hard time for witness tampering after Fogen got off for murder. Jane S actually would be a good witness against Serino and the young boy walking his dog as well. But we cannot count on the State of Florida doing anything right in this case or any other case where a white guy has killed Blacks HE decided were killable. Perhaps the feds will indict Serino, Smith and a few others. Possibly even B-37 who’s been stupid enough to brag about her conduct.

  58. Jasmine says:

    I have a question and hopefully you all and professor can clear this up for me. So the verdict was given based on the exact moment of the shot right? So that anything that happen before or after had nothing to do with the verdict.? Am I right?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      The verdict means Fogen is not guilty of the crime of M2 or manslaughter because the prosecution did not prove their case and the jury found reasonable doubt. However, this does not mean that he is innocent.

    • Thrace says:

      Basically. The key was the jury instructions. GZ could use deadly force if he felt in fear of life or great bodily injury. The judge ruled against the “intial aggressor” language being included in the instructions (GZ following TM & intial confrontation) which could have changed the outcome. So in a nutshell it all evolved around what was happening at the time of the shot and the jury believed George’s fable.

      • Jasmine says:

        Thank you Thrace that is what I was asking. So the fact that he followed in his car and then on foot wasn’t involved in other words it was irrelevant. Sigh that makes no sense. That would mean that someone can kidnap a person, torture them, and if they happen to get free and try to harm their attacker, that attacker could then claim self defense since at that point they were indeed in danger. Makes no sense right?

        • Thrace says:

          Not if they were commiting a crime, that was in the instructions too. The real problem (if you believe the jury wasn’t bias) was the judge agreeing with the defense and leaving out the initial aggressor language. If that had been in, the jury could have taken in account George’s actions leading up to the shooting and deemed him the aggressor & Trayvon was standing his ground in the fight.

        • fauxmccoy says:


          yup — as far as i can tell. at some point after the verdict, my husband discussed a similar scenario. a woman on the verge of being raped manages to do enough damage to escape her attacker, attacker runs after her, kills her and claims self defense. according to this law and case ruling, he gets off (no pun intended) yet no one ever wonders what the hell this guy’s doing chasing a crying, naked woman down a dark alley.

          pretty sick.

          • Jasmine says:

            That is some Bull…..a bunch of stuff

          • fauxmccoy says:

            as long as there was no evidence that such rape had yet occurred, but was only in process and the victim is dead with no witnesses … well, i guess we can see the outcome, huh?

          • Malisha says:

            They would have a bunch of people say the crying came from the guy, not the naked woman running away down an alley.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            malisha says

            They would have a bunch of people say the crying came from the guy, not the naked woman running away down an alley.

            no doubt … because grown men in fear of their lives can scream like little girls, so says mystery medic from viet nam, voice expert.

  59. Yorazigo says:

    GZ now a hero!

    • Malisha says:

      But really, to his crowd (including such as Dershowitz, Turley and Merritt) he always WAS a hero for killing a thug who attacked him on “his” ground. He was a hero to old veteran Donnelly who cried about his hero’s terrified shrieks when being beaten by a pBa-lack kid (and of course, he never heard shrieks from 17-year-old pBa-lack kids in Vietnam, right?) and he was a hero to Osterblenderman who got fired from the Sheriff’s office for bodyguarding a fake hero; and he was a hero to Pulling-his-own-Taffeyman for saving his house from an invasion when he only left his doors and windows open; and he was a hero to Kokopuff-the-swelly-bellyman whose gym taught him how to lie flat underneath a murderous thug for a full minute before using his weeny-beanie-gun; and he was a hero to Bertalan-waggle-tush who needed him to protect her after the police had already arrested the guy who burglarized her house; and he was a hero to Shellie-noTelly-nobaby-indeebelly when she told him “cute button-nose, we’ll have a great life soon as this little murder thing blows over.”

      Gutman. No-guts-man. His limpdick hero sure got himself up to speed as soon as the thug-beating was over, huh?

      Anybody know whether it was perchance Timmy Smith who witnessed this great act of heroism?

      • Boyd says:

        kids who see themselves get shot unable to stop it never utter terrified shrieks. He was calm afterwards without a hoarse voice.

      • Yorazigo says:

        Smith was SPD (Sanford). Seminole County Sheriff is separate department.

        • Malisha says:

          County sheriff’s dept. is even more corrupt; they did the jury tampering. They’re still really behind Osterman’s illegal manipulations and so forth.

          • concernedczen says:

            Definitely wonder who was behind the order in which jurors were called in for initial questioning.

            All they needed to do was stack the GZ supporters and white jurors toward the front of the line since the people in the back had no chance of getting on the jury.

          • Boyd says:

            yes, they stocked the potential Jurors with many NRA,CCW holders. data mining

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I wouldn’t be surprised if it was Tim Smith or one of Fogen’s other enablers. Otherwise the incident probably wouldn’t have been released to the media.

    • sparger says:

      Sounds like the plot of Crash. When Matt Damon assauts Thandie Newton then saves her life in the end. Someone is trying to rehab their image. I am going to need to hear from the alledged victims. I am willing to wager George was in the area when a crash occured and really didn’t do much of anything.

      • Malisha says:

        Maybe he was on a “ride-along.” I think his initial “ride-alongs” were unauthorized. He was going along to try to find some situation in which he could get citizen’s commendations and the friendly cops were trying to help him do that. Now that they have to be circumspect because of the calls for DOJ investigation, the sheriff’s folk are trying to get him his hero tights and cape. Too bad there aren’t too many phone booths big enough for him to change clothes in any more …

        • crazy1946 says:

          Malisha, For sale, one pound of Kryptonite guaranteed to cause fat and lazy wanta be super slobs to crash and burn! Make offer only used one time…

      • Thrace says:

        “Someone is trying to rehab their image.”

        Exactly. What’s the odd that the “little hero complex” kook comes to the rescue so quickly after his trial. He just can’t lay low. It happened sooner than I thought, and I imagine this isn’t the last we’ve heard of him. Wait till he gets his mitts on a gun and something goes sideways in his head again.

        • pat deadder says:

          Thrace What makes you think fogen doesn’t already have a gun.Does he still have his conceal carry permit.What a bullshit story fogen rescues people.He’s a effen coward.I’m willing to bet he isn’t even in Florida.Next they’ll be saying the occupants were AA.

      • groans says:

        My guess is CAC was following the vehicle in hot pursuit, while on the phone with a police dispatcher (as police reports prove he was prone to do), and he made the driver so nervous that the driver lost control of the vehicle.

    • Girlp says:

      Not really, I really don’t believe it.

    • crazy1946 says:

      The article didn’t mention it, but you can rest assured that the occupants of car were not black! If the truth were known, the Fogdoit probably ran the car off the road….

  60. silk says:

    dont be surprise that shellie might skate also . look who is her judge.

    • Rachael says:

      Even if she had a different judge, at this point I would say she would skate anyway.

    • Malisha says:

      They will probably drop the charges so the people can begin to “heal.” I’m just betting the statement about it will talk about prayer and healing and getting on with the important business of law and order and self-defense and America and all.

  61. Boyd says:

    Serino ,Singleton, Dorival, should be fired.

    Did anyone notice in the re-enactment video the yellow crime scene tape was missing and where were the Residents who complained about this guy.

  62. Olivia says:

    Viewing Wendy Dorival’s testimony again, I feel irritated every time Dorival talks about the reporting of “suspicious” activity.

    WTH is the definition of SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY?

    Is a person walking in the rain engaged in a suspicious activity?

    Is a person walking in the rain and looking around engaged in a suspicious activity?

    Did Sanford Police Department/Wendy Dorival give neighborhood watch participants a handout that described suspicious activity?

    Did she tell them that a person walking in the rain and looking around was engaged in a suspicious activity?


    So, it was Zimmerman who decided walking in the rain and looking around was suspicious activity?

    Those “report suspicious activity” signs should read WALKING IN THE RAIN AND LOOKING AROUND IS NOT SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY.

    • fauxmccoy says:


      i have come to realize that people who depend on their vehicles for making even the shortest of trips make bizarre assumptions of pedestrians. i found myself walking to the store in a rather redneck portion of the bay area where my bro lived and a number of times was passed by local yokels in jacked up pickups who threw bottles and cans at me, yelled ‘hippie’ and even swerved toward me on a road which had no sidewalk and a steep canyon as an ‘escape route’. it made no sense whatsoever. i was doing nothing illegal, getting some exercise and just enjoying a nice day.

      small minds think in small minded ways.

      • Boyd says:

        “redneck portion of the bay area” where is that?

        • fauxmccoy says:

          the east bay — meth capitol of the bay area — martinez, antioch et al. my bro lives there, on shell road, right by noxious emitting refineries. it’s the arm pit of the bay area, i assure you.

        • cielo62 says:

          Boyd~ Galveston??


      • Olivia says:


        They viewed you as easy prey. Criminals prey on the weak, and you, walking, were outnumbered and therefore seen as vulnerable.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          yes. i was a woman, walking alone in broad daylight. the first time it happened, i considered it a fluke. after 3 such incidents i realized i did not want to be in that town for any reason. to call it ‘uncomfortable’ would be an understatement.

          • Olivia says:


            OMG – 3 times; sounds like misogyny may be the norm there.

            Glad you got out.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @olvia — yes, i think you put your finger on it. i was only staying with my bro for a few months and delighted to get back to my beloved san francisco. frankly, other than the (relatively) cheap real estate prices in the area, i kind of have to wonder how my bro fits into that environment. :/

    • Olivia says:

      In Los Angeles, “Joggers who stand and stretch for an inordinate amount of time” and “Individuals who carry on long conversations on pay or cellular telephones” should be reported to the Los Angeles Police Department.

      In Kentucky, “people avoiding eye contact”, “people in places they don’t belong” and people who are “over dressed for the weather” are engaged in unusual activity. Report them to the Kentucky Office of Homeland Security.

      • abbyj says:

        Olivia, I would like to see Homeland Security issue an entire list of what they deem “suspicious behavior,” just so everyone knows exactly what to look for before shooting someone. If it’s true that “black male skin has become the costume of criminality,” then it really doesn’t matter WHAT activity or behavior is exhibited. Just being and breathing is enough to get someone killed.

        Every black or dark-skinned male has a story of being targeted for “being in the wrong place,” and therefore being suspicious. One of my friends who is dark–Native American–is repeatedly stopped when he jogs in his sister’s neighborhood when visiting her from out of town. It’s always the same: he’ll jog for less than 10 minutes, and sure enough, a squad car shows up. It’s always an interesting confrontation because he happens to BE a police officer himself. He shows them his badge, the officers look a little confused and embarrassed, and off they go. But it never stops.

        So, what I want to see is a comprehensive list of WHAT constitutes “suspicious behavior.” I want racists to OWN what they refuse to acknowledge: that it’s not looking in windows, not trying to pry open front doors or enter through garages, not loitering, not wearing a hoodie. I want them to state unequivocally that it’s BLACK SKIN in their white neighborhoods, in their stores, in their places of business. That it’s the judgment against BLACK SKIN that is “suspicious,” in and of itself. Time to call them on their lies and rationalizations.

      • Malisha says:

        Ibrahim Rashada, a Black homeowner in RTL, told the press in 2012 that he was afraid to jog in his neighborhood because Fogen was handing out leaflets saying to watch out for young Black males, and Rashada “did not want to be chased.” He would drive DOWNTOWN to stretch his legs, afraid to do so in RTL!

      • cielo62 says:

        Olivia~ I live that one about being “overdressed for the weather.” I have coworkers who are cold sensitive. They wear sweaters inside the building even in the summer. I find that bizarre, BUT I’m just the opposite. I wont’ wear a sweater unless it’s under 40 degrees.


    • MDH says:

      Most 17 year olds that do not have mommy and daddy paying their way through life do not have a car. So how, pray tell GZ, do they go to the store to buy snacks?

      Sometime I think there is a bit of the “overprotected by their parents” aspect to some of GZ enablers.

      When I was 17, I walked or took the bus everywhere in all kinds of weather. Because I was poor, I could not afford gear and just had to get wet. And there are millions of males in the USA in the same boat.

    • Girlp says:

      Trayvon standing at the mail boxes to get out of the rain, he left his shelter because Zimmerman was staring him down and it frightened him. Funny George left that out.

  63. mimi712 says:

    Did you see this article that just emerged on twitter? Now Zimmerman is a good samitarian …in the making, by the media:

    • Woow! says:

      They can report how much of a good guy he is people still are not going to like him. I think this is a fabricated ploy to shed good light on him.

      We have all said karma is a MF and reporting stuff like this is going to make that idiot think he is the neighborhood savior again and it won’t be long before he is back to old ways. I give him a year to be back in the new in a negative way.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Woow!, you are too generous. I’d venture less than six months.

        • mimi712 says:

          Sanford police delivered GeorgeZimmerman evidence to FBI’s Orlando office for civil rights investigation within the last hour. What a nice coincidence! Since the SPD has actually nothing to do with the highway patrol, how come that SPD forwarded this
          ” hero news” now to ABC news? No, not a real question.

      • cielo62 says:

        Woow!~ Living on food stamps in a refurbished FEMA trailer.


    • Trained Observer says:

      Disgusting. I can’t imagine that murdering tub of lard could be anything other than a nuisance and liability in a rescue situation.

      It doesn’t look like the Sanford PD has learned anything either.

      Frankly, I’m surprised any of the Zimmerman are still lurking within the state. … Then again, what other state would want them?

      • Xena says:

        @Trained Observer. HA! So the cops gave the intersection so everyone in Florida can be on the lookout for tubbythug.

        • cielo62 says:

          Xena~ RIGHT! Because following someone is NOT illegal…. I can see him having panic attacks in the street.


          • Xena says:


            Xena~ RIGHT! Because following someone is NOT illegal…. I can see him having panic attacks in the street.


            I wonder if he called 911 to report an accident and for an ambulance, or NEN to report a suspicious vehicle?

          • fauxmccoy says:


            “um, hi. this is george. i’d like to report a suspicious vehicle. it’s upside down. and the tires? they’re black.”

          • racerrodig says:

            So FogenPhoole’s new catch phrase is what….

            Take a life…….save a life

            I just watched The Moron Man tell us about his clients heroics. You could smell the shit 1200 miles away !! The shocked look on his face !!

            Lets face facts here, they’ve been saying Fogen has not left the house for (insert # of days here) and all of the sudden he was rescuing people on Wed ???????

            AND Robbie the Racist didn’t alert us ???? !!!! ???? Bullllllshit.

            Robbie had to throw a racial dig however in his phone interview.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            yup, something is rotten in denmark, indeed!

      • abbyj says:

        T.O., I’ve still got my fingers crossed that he and his wretched family move to Peru. There, he and Joran Van der Sloot can hang out and talk about their favorite murder techniques. And GZ’s mom can pour tea and laugh along with them.

      • cielo62 says:

        Trained Observer! alas, Texas would welcome them with open arms. Armed arms.


    • Boyd says:

      No way he was Johnny on the spot. It’s an NRA conspiracy, like Invasion of the body snatchers.

      Boycott Florida!

    • THE Shadow says:

      “less than a mile” from the scene of the murder. Well there is that old saying – “they always return to the scene of the crime”.
      Likely hoping to score some Brownie points. Won’t help him though, not where he’s going.

    • Malisha says:

      Do not trust this article. Fogen’s friends at ABC news were the ones who published the “exonerating” picture of the back of his head before the police claimed to have had it. Mat Gutman? Remember, McAuliffe was the information officer when the misinformation was given to the Miami Herald saying that there had been high crime in RTL including “one other shooting” in the year before Trayvon Martin was murdered — and that was done on March 15, 2012. And besides, do you believe that weak little soft-ass no-muscle-mass wus pussy Fogen was able to suddenly grow muscles and strength and fearlessness and so he was able to pull an injured party out from under a truck? REALLY? When he couldn’t push a 17-year-old’s skinny hands off his nose and mouth?

      What they are doing is polishing Fogen’s image now so that all of us can become subject to his dominance, not just pBa-lacks in “his turf.” They are making Fogen the hero he wanted to be when he went out punk-coon-chasing on behalf of his fraidy-cat neighbors (who have now had to shell out over a million dollars for him to have exercised that little privilege).

      I do not believe this bullshit. The ABC press has to rehabilitate their little coon-killer before his own reputation overtakes him. Just as he was a “mentor” now he is a “savior.” I’m not buying it. And from McAuliffe? Not buying it. MMM-mmm, no, not at all.

      • Boyd says:

        Good point Malisha, From Pillsbury dough boy to “the man of steel” in 1 week

      • mimi712 says:

        This is the Seminole So’s statement I just found: “On Wednesday, July 17 at approximately 5:45 p.m., the Seminole County Sheriff’s Office (SCSO) responded to a single car accident in the area of 1-4 and SR 46 in Sanford, Fla. A blue Ford Explorer SUV had travelled off the road and rolled over. There were four occupants inside – two parents and two children. SCSO’s responding deputy reported that when he arrived, two men – one of whom was George Zimmerman – had already helped assist the family by getting them out of the overturned vehicle. Zimmerman was not a witness to the crash and left after making contact with the deputy. There were no report of injuries to the vehicle occupants”

        I absolutely believe that it’s to polish the image! Especially when they just had to turn over the evidence material. It’s all very convenient…and it shows on the other hand that he actually had the physical strength to “defend” himself, doesn’t it?

        • concernedczen says:

          I agree. This is a made up story. All parties were probably Zimmerman’s buddies including the family in the supposed overturned car.

        • mimi712 says:

          Thinking about it once again, I also believe it’s made up story…it’s a gut feeling!

        • PiranhaMom says:


          Vehicles that roll often simply leave their occupants hanging
          upside-down by their seatbelts/shoulder harnesses. An SUV is more prone to this because of its higher profile.

          About ten years ago I helped an older woman out of her vehicle from the same kind of event. A little tricky unlatching her but other than that she was just scared and feeling a little foolish for skidding out on sand that had washed onto the pavement.

          The SUV in the “Zimmerman incident” is sturdy and protective. Nowhere do you read that Zimmerman helped right the vehicle. He and another bystander just helped the folks get out of the car.

          And made a point that the cops got his name, for the attaboys.

          No more, no less than that. And not heroic. Anybody could do this. Smashing a window would be the most “hazardous” part of it.

          On the other hand, maybe Zimmerman could get one of those Sanford PD “combat ribbons,” like Singleton wears.

          And a party to celebrate?

          Just don’t try hiring servers …

        • Boyd says:

          5:45 PM that’s work hour traffic. There would be a lot of cars around. making contact with the deputy. “I’m one of you”

          • aussiekay says:

            Who the hell rolls a vehicle in peak hour traffic? too early to be drunk and speeding with the family on board. I don’t believe a word of it. Opening the doors to let the people get out is not a “rescue”.


      • J4TMinATL says:

        Matt Gutman was also the person who apparently had RJ’s original telephone interview tape.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      If he does about a million more good things and never picks up a gun again, then I’ll be impressed.

    • cielo62 says:

      mimi~ and I don’t believe one single word of it. TOTALLY manufactured, just like ALL the lies they’ve told…


  64. KateW says:

    THis is what this case has done!!! They now think it’s ok to shoot Black people like animals in the streets!!! These racist bigots are going to end up starting some kind of reaction that is not going to be good for anyone. This case has set a dangerous precedent and gave every gun toting racist a*hole the perceived right to shoot people of color in the streets. I hate to say this but perhaps Tavis Smiley was right, maybe Black people need to start arming themselves. They cannot be out in the streets allowing themselves to be slaughtered. This was just…I have no words.

    This guy shoots a man in the face and says I only shot a n*gger!! I am absolutely livid!!

    • fauxmccoy says:

      @kateW — that event occurred not long after trayvon was killed. it is vile and beyond ugly, but we cannot blame it on the trial that just occurred. we can blame it on florida legislation and hate however.

    • Malisha says:

      “They now think it’s ok to shoot Black people like animals in the streets!!!”

      No, because if you shoot an animal in the street you will be arrested.

    • LBTG says:

      Hannity crowd thinks this man is the dumbist racist ever. This man won’t have a chance in court – he has no law to base his defence on like SYG.

  65. ladystclaire says:

    Are we to assume that Fogen, ShelLie, Robbie the Racist and, the sister who along with her spouse, participated in MONEY LAUNDERING and, hiding a valid passport will they also get away with that? there are records which prove this took place and, they shouldn’t be allowed to get away with that but, more than likely they will.

    You know, some of the talking heads are saying that, it would be hard for the DOJ to prove that Fogen committed a hate crime. but when he is on the NEN call, he says these two words, “fucking Coons” and, I don’t care what the FBI or anyone else says, he did “NOT” say fucking punks and, when I send my email to Eric Holder, I’m going to make sure that he knows this.

    BTW, I cancelled my auto ship order with HSN because, I’m not going to give that state not one dime of my money.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      i am resigned to the fact that shellie may be the only conviction whatsoever. they have her cornered with her own taped words and bank records. i do not expect much in the way of punishment however, but am willing to be surprised.

      • Trained Observer says:

        I’ve written to Angela Corey’s office urging that (assuming she still has juristiction) she not back off on Mrs. Fogen’s perjury charge and that she consider charges on jury violations. Have written to both the White House and and the DOJ’s Eric Holder urging federal prosecution of Fogen … also have signed all the petitions, etc.

        Now we must wait and hope.

        It would be ironic if SheLie becomes a convicted felon not allowed to own a gun, while Fogen roams free to buy another.

      • cielo62 says:

        faux mccoy~ probation, probably. And even WHEN she breaks her probation rules, she’ll get nothing. I have lost ALL faith.


  66. concernedczen says:

    Does anyone recall reading information about GZ going to a BBQ at Wendy Dorival’s house ?

    • fauxmccoy says:

      i seem to recall something about a party at singleton’s house … hmmmmmm.

      • Boyd says:

        don’t tell me this. this nugget never came up during the trial.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          boyd — if my memory is not failing me (it does, sometimes) this was a video taped discussion between gz and singleton when they were awaiting the voice stress test. since none of the voice stress test stuff was entered (for obvious reasons) it would not have made it into evidence. i would have to go back and review those tapes to be absolutely certain of which pre-interview conversation this was and i just don’t have the heart to do that now.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            Send this info to DOJ pronto!

          • pat deadder says:

            fauxmcoy Conversation between Singleton and fogen. I think.they were talking about her working overtime doing a house party either fogen was there or also working as a bouncer or whatever he did being the whimp he is.He asked if the police chief told her about the glowing report he sent about her to him..I think she said no.It was hard to hear.Gag me with a spoon as the kids used to say.

          • fauxmccoy says:


            yup — that pretty much fits my recollection, gags, spoons and all!

  67. chi1224 says:

    Hi everyone. Great article professor. I am still so sick over the verdict. I have a question- does anyone here think the federal government will file charges?

    • KateW says:

      Who knows. They opened up a tip line for anyone with information to come forward. We have to keep the pressure on them. Not saying I would want them to bring a hap hazard case like this debacle, but I think they should do as much research and digging as they can to make sure a grand jury would indict. Did I say that right?
      The ACLU and NAACP are involved and I am sure they will stay on top of it as well. How often do we have a President that can relate to what is going on. THis is Obama’s moment to help make a change for the African American communities and for victims of crimes that have been dealt a terrible blow by our justice system.

      • ay2z says:

        haphazard debackle, and all too common?

      • bettykath says:

        the ACLU is claiming that a federal charge would be double jeopardy.

        • Girlp says:

          I’m wondering how they came to the conculsion that charging George with violating Trayvon Martin’s civil rights is double jeopardy it’s been done before and Florida did not charge this as a hate crime.

        • abbyj says:

          Are you sure, bettykath? Criminal and civil charges are quite different, as I understand them. Would like to hear more about this. No way GZ should get immunity from civil charges.

        • Two sides to a story says:

          Not necessarily. He probably wouldn’t face M2 charges again – he’d face federal violations for committing a hate crime. I think ACLU is going off prematurely.

  68. silk says:

    prosecutor F#@k this case up . it was definitely fix . not mention judge nelson bullshit with the defense was was sign that tray wasnt going to get no justice . then the audio was banned . then she had the nerve to insult our intelligance by allowing some stupid ass cartoon program in . the defense never presented any case law just bitching and moaning. then the fake pictures, omg!! i thought i was going to die looking at those phony ass pitcher !!!! then obama and charles is saying the shit as robert zimmerman !!! WTF is going on. who in the fuck the is black would by this shit!!!!!

    • KateW says:

      Yeah Charles Barkley *sigh* I had to shake my head at that one. He says after looking at all the evidence Zimmerman was in the right. So basically he is in the same boat as these jurors that looked at the evidence they wanted to look at instead of the whole picture. Then he says he lives in a neighborhood where he is the only Black man. So I can deduce that he didn’t want to piss his White counterparts off. I agreed with him on some things but I dont understand how anyone can say this is a just verdict when this killer, the aggressor, is the one who initiated the whole thing. I just don’t understand how people, well ok so I do understand, and that is how they can start from a point where they want to demonize and blame the victim and that is to say everything starts when they meet. Everything doesn’t start when they meet. Everything starts from the time he targeted, stalked and then ultimately confronted and murdered this child doing nothing more than walking home from the store. It’s like reverse racism where privileged Black men/women feel little to no connection to Black America. They are often chastising, belittling and turning their backs to the problems Blacks in America face. When Obama said we should just accept this verdict because the courts had spoken I was up in arms upset! Lauryn Hill got more time for tax evasion than this cretin got for murdering an innocent child on his way home. This is an atrocity and no one should let this go.

  69. KateW says:

    Ugh!! The atrocities! The violation of civil and human rights! This sounds like the procedure that killer practiced in profiling and looking at a person of color as “suspicious”. This makes me soooo angry!!!

    • crazy1946 says:

      This video should be played over and over to anyone who thinks racism is not alive and well in this nation! Thank you for posting it!!

    • Girlp says:

      Now this video should be on CBS, NBC, CNN, ABC, why not. How can an unconstitutional practice be allowed by a Government, whether it’s Federal, State or local. They actually tried to bate this child into a fight by calling him a racial slur…SICK!

  70. Woow! says:

    If people did not know the SPD was racist they know now. Let us hope that the next time a black person file a complaint or request an investigation their request is taken seriously.

    SPD is under a microscope. Will that stop them from their racist ways. No… these people have been emboldened. As long people (DOJ) remain quiet and let them get away we are going to continue to have the same problem

    No one wants to discuss the problem ‘racism’. It is not going to go away and it needed to get addressed once an for all.

    Corey and BDLR stayed away from racing knowing CAC actions were racially motivated. JN perpuated this more by not allowing BDLR to introduce it as a reason for CAC behavior at the trial.

    Look at Taffee on TV spewing his vile hatred for the world to see.
    What about daddy Zimmerman and that book and even before that trying to call the POTUS racist.
    We have FOX network spewing hatred every single day and lying. What ever happened to integrity in journalism.
    POTUS staying away from race. Why, he has been under racial attack from the first day of his campaign.

    We have senators like Michelle Bachman running round with her craziness.
    John McCain during the campaign referring to the POUTS as that guy.
    The supreme court turning back the clock on hard fought rights….

    Race needs to get addressed let people know that we are not going to tolerate it anymore. If we keep sweeping it under the rug, it will continue to rear its ugly head and bit us in the fanny.

    These people need to get called out on their BS,

  71. Good morning. My Senator Barbara Boxer sent a letter to AG Holder asking the DOJ to investigate. You know why I think this story is not over. Not Karma, but ratings. This is box office gold and can you imagine the ad dollars if a Fed trial was televised? Im a proud cynical capitolist. My questions then is can a Fed trial be televised? In the Corp my DI used to say “nothing’s ever over”.

    Have a great week and again thank you for all.

    • cielo62 says:

      Elijah~ LOL! Yes, the drama that never ends because the emotions are so raw! Sure, let’s milk this for another year through the DoJ. Send gz to prison, then ask a bazillion loaded questions about race, SYG, and other cases happening. A veritable goldmine of self-written crap with many “idiot on the street” commentary. A cross between reality TV and Case Files. Oh your thoughts are so cynically in tune with mine…


  72. crazy1946 says:

    Mz. Shel-lie Fogdoit will possibly go on trial in about thirty days or so. There has been talk on most of the Fogdoit support programming that there will be no trial for her and the charges will simply be allowed to go away. Will this happen? If it does will that be another stake in the heart of “justice” in Florida?

    In about sixty days or so Michael Dunn is scheduled to go on trial for the killing of Jordan Davis, there are rumors about a change in the prosecution of this case. I see a problem with the conviction of this man, who willingly murdered a child and attempted to murder three others. Because Dunn during his initial interview and continuing up to the present, stated he feared for his life and “thought” he saw a weapon (yet none was found), if the jury is given similar instructions as to those that were given to the jury in the Trayvon Martin case by Judge Nelson, it is possible that regardless to any other evidence shown, he will be acquitted! Have we all been following these cases that are quickly coming to trial?

    • dianetrotter says:

      Crazy, I am concerned also. Isn’t John Guy the prosecutr?

      • crazy1946 says:

        I have been hearing rumors that AC is taking over and going to prosecute the case her self (for political reasons?)!

        • ladystclaire says:

          I have read that both she and John Guy along with another Attorney whose name is Erin, whose last name I don’t recall will be prosecuting this one. I don’t really seeing the same thing happening in this case, as did in Trayvon’s case.

          IMO the prosecution went into that trial, with the intention of Fogen not being convicted and, that was “VERY DIRTY” for them to do that. my first inclination of them not really being serious about this case was when, they did not seat not one African American on that jury. WHY WAS THAT DONE? it’s a shame that we have a dead seventeen year old who was murdered at the hands of a serial criminal, who is now walking free among us.

          Someone asked why the subject of racism is not being talked about, it’s because “they do not want the rest of the world, to see the real UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND HOW THEY TREAT CERTAIN CITIZENS EVEN THOUGH THEY TRY TO TELL THOSE IN OTHER COUNTRIES, HOW THEY SHOULD TREAT THEIR OWN CITIZENS. they don’t want them to see the hypocrisy that is this country.

          • fauxmccoy says:


            the prosecution did excuse one black male juror — a very conservative, fox watching, retired marine, with heavy LE connections and a CCW permit. i believe that was a good call.

            other than that one AA, how do you propose they could have seated more, considering the jury order which cannot be changed?

          • crazy1946 says:

            ladystclaire, If Dunn is convicted, it will not be because of who the prosecutor is. I have a different view on what happened in the Fogdoit trial than most other here have professed. In the period leading up to the trial BDLR and crew did all the right things, at the start of the trial they did good, however as it became to appear that they might just win the case, suddenly there was a change in demeanor in BDLR and he seemed to act like a man whose legs had been shot out from under him! To find out the truth about why the “state” lost the trial you would need to follow a political trail up to the top! I don’t think the loss was dictated by Scott, but instead it came from much higher in the political process. We need to look and determine who stood to lose the most had a conviction occurred… Will a case be pursued by the justice dept? Will charges be filed against the Fogdoit? Unlike many others here, I think they will, only because the Fogdoit and his case are no longer able to be protected by the people that covered his behind in the state courts…. Time will tell which one of us is right…. Regardless, there will still be no true justice for the death of Trayvon Martin! Justice provided now will always be tainted by the events that happened during and after the trial….

    • KateW says:

      Isn’t it amazing that people always begin this altercation with what Trayvon Martin did, but never start at the crux of this matter and that was that this kid was targeted as “suspicious” simply for walking home, in the rain. This kid was targeted, stalked and pursued. That is where it should start as his killer being the aggressor. But when his supporters are called out on it, then they stammer and stutter and back pedal. They don’t want to admit and are selective in their acknowledgement of culpability for this heinous miscarriage of justice, and that is this killer began the confrontation the minute he targeted this child. The professor has also stressed this point. What happened in the middle doesn’t really matter because only 2 people know what really happened and one made sure the other would not be able to tell his story. If we cannot ascertain who did what at the moment they met, the jury should have looked at who began this chain of events and there is no dispute the killer’s actions caused this.

      I am seeing this consistently on the blogs and websites where people automatically leave out how they got to that point. They don’t want to admit it and they always come back to blaming the victim. This clip is an example of that.

      • MDH says:

        They ignore the 100% incontrovertible evidence and accept the story of a proven liar because he is able to tap into a racist fear in their minds.

        The incontrovertible facts are:

        A had a gun

        A called B a “suspect”, “asshole” and “F’in coon or punk”

        A got out of the car after saying in an anxious voice “he’s getting away”

        A shot B dead.

        And they have the temerity to say that the proposed actions of Trayvon based on a story told by A have merit.

        Cornell should not have even given any plausibility to the idea that Trayvon was fighting back. The evidence does not prove that. If anything, the evidence points away from it in that there is no damage to Trayvon’s hands or blood on Trayvon proving he was on top beating GZ.

        All the evidence shows, including testimony, is that there was some sort of struggle that we don’t know who made the first physical move in; and that the damage could have been due to a blow or contact with objects in the area where the struggle took place.

        Claiming that the shot angle proves Trayvon was on top is pure stupidity. There was no witness to the shot. In forensics, the first assumption for a level shot straight to the heart is that the shooter and victim were standing face to face.

        An objective person would fall back on what is 100% incontrovertible. What I stated above. And that proves GZ guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

        • Girlp says:

          IMO in the end it doesn’t matter if Trayvon was on top, he was trying to get away and apparently was about to get away which George did not want… the point Trayvon was seen on top even George’s friend W6 did not say he saw punches being thrown even he said the person on top may have been holding the person on the bottom at bay which say’s to me Travyon was doing no more than trying to get away from someone. I believe George tried to detain Trayvon…Serino approached him with that idea for a reason…I believe there are others who know more than they are saying and more who were never asked to testify….Also, someone saw something that they did not relate to anyone because they had no intentions of getting involved.

          • MDH says:

            I agree that Trayvon being on top for a moment was part of the struggle and might have been flailing with his arms to break a grip that GZ probably had on his hoodie. The idea that he was beating up GZ is preposterous to any person who has been in or seen a fight.

            I go by my gut instincts and life experience.

            For example, a gay friend of mine got bashed by three guys. Because he is very strong, he was able to take the beating, fend it, and live

            When I first saw him at the gym the night after it happened, My first remark was “you were in a fight and someone tried to kill you”.

            My reasons:

            A clear linear mark to the temple from a kick

            Blood still weeping from the nares

            Multiple contusions on the face and head that had not gone down and were starting to purple up

            A bruise shaped like a boot print on his chest – he said of them jumped on his chest.

            At least 15 wounds on his hands and forearms from fending blows.

            My first reaction to the GZ bloody photo



            A minor mark on the nose that caused no bleeding to the nares

            A scratch on the tip of his nose

            Two scratches on the back of his head.

            That does not match 20 to 30 strikes to the face and head along with multiple slams of the back of his head to concrete.

            If I was a juror holding out for a conviction, the above is how I would state my reasons for conviction.

            I would push a yellow legal pad over to B37 state I am willing to stay here till hell freezes over.

            IMO, my reasons to convict are far stronger than what she has said or these two clowns in the video above.

            Thank our lucky stars that Maher has some stones to see what should be self-evident to all.

        • Girlp says:

          I’m happy to see Maher is still standing up for Trayvon as well…There is no way George was beaten, he got a little whipping but Trayvon had the right to fight back against someone attempting to retain him…why wasn’t George charged with attempted kidnapping, Rachel indicated that George was on Trayvon she heard Trayvon say “Get Off!”. I’m glad your friend was able to fend off these people and hope he is ok.

        • degraveegmailcom says:

          THANK YOU!
          And everyone that heard this when it hit the news knew it.

  73. Tee says:

    Good morning, I had a conversation with my daughter & husband yesterday about all those defense witnesses whom claimed that it was GZ voice yelling for help. Here is just a snippet of what I told them, my husband has been to upset to even talk about it. I told him to trust that GZ won’t escape justice from God. That he and everyone on his side that sat in that courtroom and lied about those screams will hear them for a very long time. GZ wanted the screams to be his I bet God is going to give him and all of those whom vouched for him, that child screams everytime he closes his eyes to sleep he will hear them. They all will hear that boy scream, there will be no more peace when he or they sleep. GZ wanted the world to aattribute those screams of death approaching to him and God will surely grant him his wish. They are yours now, hear them loud and clear isn’t that what you and all of your friends and family wanted.

  74. Judy75201 says:

    This is a great segment with Melissa Harris Perry. I don’t watch TV, so I’ve never actually seen her before. I’ve been missing out!

    Take heart.

    (If someone wants to imbed this for me, that would be great.)

    • Judy75201 says:

      Oh, it embedded itself! Ha.

    • Girlp says:

      Love her, watch her all the time, I like it because she is able to state what is without taking away hope she is a very positive person. It is going to take time, if we give up now nothing is done, this is as much for our kids and great grand kids as it is for today.

      • Judy75201 says:

        Absolutely, Girlp. She made me realize that we ARE making a difference! We ARE a part of the puzzle that will eventually be perfected.

  75. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Article: “Trayvon Martin and Making Whiteness Visible”

    If there is one hopeful note amid all the anguish and recrimination from the acquittal of George Zimmerman, it’s that growing numbers of white people have come to appreciate whiteness for what it is: an unearned set of privileges. And as a result of that dawning awareness, it’s become possible to imagine a day when that structure of privilege is dismantled — by white people.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      • And speaking of white supremacy PR…

        “Here’s how great it is to be white. I could get in a time machine and go to any time and it’ll be f@cking awesome when I get there.”

        Not even remotely true. Europeans have been in control of the planet for less than 300 years. All ancient civilizations were either non-white or heavily mixed societies with cultural roots in the non-white people. White people are essentially an A.D. people who became dominant with the fall of the Ottoman Empire.

        • cielo62 says:

          already been~ plus the rise of the British Empire. I believe many American christians would be shocked to know how dark the REAL Jesus was…


      • cielo62 says:

        YAHTC~ Let me throw my 2 cents in, from experience. I KNOW I have white privilge. I knew it before I even knew it had a name. With my Hispanic student’s parents, there are SO many differences that trying to be their equal feels impossible. I’m white, rich (compared to them), and highly educated. I’m also a Teacher, which is still respected in Hispanic culture. I actually HEAR the capital letter when they say Maestra. If they won’t accept equality, what’s left? Noblese Oblige, and it sucks. But it’s all I have to offer to people who haven’t grown in self confidence enough to know that they ARE my human equals.


    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

  76. crazy1946 says:

    Stand Your Ground! Over and over and over again, I have heard that this law is the problem and it is the cause of the death of innocent individuals! Well, is it really? I submit that no, it is not the true cause of the problem, the problem is much deeper than that, nor is it caused by the CCW laws, they like the SYG laws are just the tip of the iceberg! The real problem is not even guns or gun ownership! Is the second amendment the problem? No, that is not even the problem when considered as it was written. The problem is that we as a society have progressed to the point that we can no longer settle problems with our fellow mankind without violence. Too many individuals, who lack any degree of conscience in dealing with others are in possession of the ultimate social equalizer! We can change the SYG laws, we can eliminate the CCW laws, and we can force the SCOTUS to actually read the 2nd amendment in the way that it was intended, but will that resolve the problem? Until we can re-engineer the human brain and some how remove the portion that causes hate to over ride the ability to reason, the problem will not be solved…. The ability of one individual to serve as judge and jury and to render punishment instantly by the use of a weapon, such as a gun, is like a boil on the skin of this nation, as it festers and spreads it affects more and more people until it ultimately kills the host.. This nation is infected with hate and unless that is eliminated, it will continue on its course of decline and eventually (too soon sadly) death by its own hand…. Feel free to read this either as the NRA would like you to, or perhaps you might read it as a call for unity and concern for all people who desire peace and harmony in life?

    • Malisha says:

      Even if we do not (since we cannot) reengineer the human brain, we SURE can make it scary to a person like Fogen to go off and kill a person like Trayvon Martin. If he had known that night that he COULD NOT get away with it, he would not have done it. The problem was that he knew he COULD get away with it so he did it.

      Remember one of the cops said to the other, upon hearing that FDLE had brought charges against Fogen, “We got fucked up the ass.” Now WHY would cops feel personally betrayed and inured because a suspect was charged with a crime? Is there any logical way to dissect this statement and understand it?

      UNLESS he didn’t mean that they were “FUTA” because they were cops whose work was disrespected, but he felt they were protectors (of Fogen) whose barrier was broken by someone who didn’t care about their personal stake in the safety and security of ONE OF THEM. And who was “one of them” — another cop? NO! Another racist bigot. Another white supremacist.

      • crazy1946 says:

        Malisha, Are you totally sure that the human brain is unable to be reengineered? I might suggest that it can be, think about advertising and television programing as an example of that…. We could farther expand that to religion if you think about it for just a moment! How many Fogdoits do we have out there now that have been programed by the actions of not only their parents but the community as well? We hear from a very early age how guns are the solution to many of life’s problems, and the person with the gun is the hero because he saved the poor damsel in distress! I suggest that not only can the human brain be reengineered (programed) it has been and will continue to be until we take a stand and demand it cease…. The real problem is that we as a society are unable/unwilling to make the commitment to tackle this problem. Is it because it would first require we give up some of our own sacred cows? It would appear that in our society we are all willing to make change/changes in others that we are unwilling to make in our own lives…. Too bad…..

        • Malisha says:

          I’m not saying the brain can’t be reengineered; that’s not my field. I agree with everythng you have written there about how our brains HAVE been reengineered. I wrote hastily. WHat I should have said was that we have no time, between now and the time that our society becomes so utterly unredeemable that it should just be annihilated, to reverse the bad reengineering that has brought us to this point, to the point where we are blessing the murder of innocent children by self-important, lying, slanderous, evil, cheating, thieving violent marauding criminals in our streets and where we are also blaming and heaping abuse upon those among us who want to reverse this crucifying trend. We are becoming a criminal society as evil and wrong-headed (but far more powerful) than we were in the slavery days when we at least ADMITTED that our purpose was to utterly exploit, criminally use and legally murder people.

          Could we all have reengineered brains? Sure. Over a few generations. But during those few generations we would have to have:

          1. Maternal care for our babies, ALL OUR BABIES; and not just “daycare” and institutionalized pump-feeding stations;

          2. True education acknowledging the life interest of each child;

          3. Respect;

          4. Total reform of our courts so that we SHOW our citizens what we really need to do to coexist and grow;

          5. Real freedom not based on financial bullying;

          6. Actual equality in basics such as medical care, housing and nutrition; and, most important

          7. TRUTH in media.

          So although I do not think it IMPOSSIBLE that our brains become reengineered, as a practical matter do I think it possible?

          The short answer is NO.
          The longer answer is HELL NO, SORRY.

          • “So although I do not think it IMPOSSIBLE that our brains become reengineered, as a practical matter do I think it possible?

            The short answer is NO.”

            …as you write to innumerable people on the internet.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            The true nature of the human mind is compassion and wisdom. The obscurations can be cleared away from any mind to reach the true nature, but it takes a hella lotta work to do so. Many people are stuck in their obscurations and false beliefs (those assholes, they always get away) and are not willing or able to do this work. Thus we have an endless supply of suffering in the world.

        • “The real problem is that we as a society are unable/unwilling to make the commitment to tackle this problem. Is it because it would first require we give up some of our own sacred cows?”

          White supremacy is a sacred cow. So is the projection of white guilt. It took a lot of PR to create the myth of white supremacy. Hollywood, Christianity and the Catholic Church, College and Universities and the myth of Western Civilization. Only a very sophisticated person can translate these cues and even then they need a motivation to do so.

    • Malisha says:


      The problem is in the words “your ground.”

      A guy like Fogen, a gal like B-37, really have soaked up enough white privilege to BELIEVE that the “ground” outside anywhere they happen to be is THEIR GROUND.

      They feel like they have urinated all over the whole country so it is their territory.

      They feel like they can then decide what is good and right everywhere they STAND.

      So Fogen felt enabled (and then he WAS ENABLED) to defend HIS territory by killing someone who did not belong there but who would not SUBMIT to his authority when he chose to remove him.

      B-37 felt that Fogen’s heart was “in the right place” because his heart was in the same place HERS was. She felt that “those people” who live in “their [separate and inferior] lifestyle” like Rachel really do NOT have the right to be “oh just anywhere” as if they own the place. She feels that she and Fogen own the place (America) and “those people” are interlopers who sometimes need to be dealt with. It’s about WHOSE GROUND this is. She doesn’t believe it’s everyone’s (including Trayvon’s); she believes it’s HERS. Trayvon couldn’t “stand HIS ground” because it was not his; it was Fogen’s.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Exactly. If she was completely honest, she might have said just that. She’s unable to understand her own sentiments.

      • groans says:

        That juror B-37 is SOOOO prejudiced that, despite all the things she recognized and stated that CAC did wrong, it never even OCCURRED to her that it was Trayvon who was standing his ground! That it was Trayvon who was minding his own business … until he had to run away from a creepy stalker while yakking on the phone with a friend … and he would have just kept yakking to his friend if CAC hadn’t hunted him down and “arrested” him, without so much as an introduction or explanation.

        B-37’s interview told us a WHOLE lot more than she (in her fog of prejudice and ignorance) will probably ever realize!

        Talk about the “dumbing down” of America…!! It’s B-37 incarnate.

    • LBTG says:

      Powerful words Crazy1946 & Malisha.
      Where does all this hate & entitlement come from. I was born 21 years after women got the right to vote. I grew up during the transition from where everything revolved around men to women’s rights. Things changed from women & children are a man’s property – TO – women are people too. Don’t get me started.

      That was the time of the feminist movement. When I went back to college for computer science, I hated that all the textbooks had masculine pronouns (he, him, his). Birth control pills came available around 1965. I was shocked at Roe vs Wade in 1973, because this new right seemed to be completely out-of-line with the current thinking of that time.

      The AA made progress with Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King, the first black student admitted to a Georgia university etc. They made so much progress that I predicted we’d have a black president before we’d have a woman president. If Clinton hadn’t sided with the Republicans on the Iraq war issue, she may have won the presidential election.

      The Jews have had their share of sorrow (Hitler).

      What makes hatred so strong that people would kill another person (or group of people) with righteous anger and feel entitled to become a hero in the eyes of others? Does it come from the Bible or religious beliefs? (Attack on America – 911)

      We’ve made a lot of progress and the conservatives in leadership are pushing back. We cannot let progress go backwards. As President Obama said during his campaign: “Forward – not backward.”

      • crazy1946 says:

        LBTG, I agree with all your words except one small part, and that is the part about Hillary Clinton. She was so feared by the GOP that they could not allow her to be a candidate, so to prevent her from becoming the nominee of the Democrats in 2007 they encouraged the GOP membership to change their voter registration and vote for the unelectable choice, Obama! Well little did they realize that due to their own actions they would elect a black man to their white office and into their white house. Since that happened the civil rights movement has regressed and until we as a nation stand firm and refuse to accept that racism as a political tool is acceptable it will continue to fall by the wayside. I personally refuse to sit by and see my fellow country men/women/children be placed into classes whether it be by race/money/or!!!! All men are equal in the eyes of GOD, and any one that claims other wise can never really be a Christian…….

        • fauxmccoy says:


          i would go so far to suggest that christianity (be it real or feigned) has little to do with it. even us heathens and non believers tend to have more just and sure moral compasses to know that bigotry and murder is wrong.

          my husband is an atheist, i call myself an agnostic. we do not kill or engage in racial discrimination not because of the bible, nor even because of laws. we do not do these things because we know that it is wrong and deprives our fellow man of their basic human rights.

          think about it — have you ever found yourself pondering ‘i sure wish i could kill X! damn, those stupid murder laws!’. no, of course not. it is not the law nor the bible that stops you, but something much deeper.

          • crazy1946 says:

            fauxmccoy, The only true part that religion (IMO) plays in this case is a small part. It is an example of social engineering aka as human mind re-engineering to compel a person to accept an unproven fact as truth…. It is in many cases a learned trait and not something we are born with, much like racism. We are instructed (in many cases) about not only religion but in too many cases attitudes toward our fellow mankind up to and including racism….. It has been many years since I had even the passing thought of taking another human life, actually not since I was sent to SE Asia to murder another race of people in the name of our country! Law in this respect does not defer me nor as you say a religious commitment, but simply have no need to deprive another of their right to life……

          • fauxmccoy says:


            understood 🙂 good sharing ideas with you, buddy.

          • LBTG says:

            Christianity has an influence in killing ideas. Women – submit yourselves to your husbands…. Homosexuality is an abomination in the eyes of the Lord. Slaves obey your masters. Early Christians separated themselves from the Jewish people with “the Jews killed Jesus.” These ideas drive Christians to become slaves of the Bible and enforce these ideas on “faith”.

            I was raised ultra-right Missouri Synod Lutheran. When I later hung around Unitarian Universalists, I became aware of my assumptions and that these so-called Godless people had a lot more Christlike qualities than the Christians.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @LBTG — somewhat reminiscent of ghandi saying “i like your christ, i do not like your christians’.

            i grew up in a liberal presbyterian church, i liked it very much, but chose to leave as a young adult because i knew i just could not buy the whole ‘virgin birth’ thing. that was a deal breaker and if you cannot accept that, where does that leave you? it was a difficult transition, there are things i miss — choir etc. i have no ill will toward anyone with any religious beliefs, but christian piety combined with hypocrisy it a bit hard to take.

          • cielo62 says:

            faux mccoy~ as usual, you beat me to the comment, and as usual SAID it way better than me! Part of our social rearing is aligning our natural instincts for social behavior with the moral standards in our society. I teach morality to my students and NEVER have to mention the bible or even god. Children “GET” being fair to others. They “GET” being honest and truthful. I don’t know when it gets lost, jaded or abandoned, but I still have those values and many others do too, regardless of religion or lack thereof.


          • fauxmccoy says:

            famed atheist penn jillette says it best


        • cielo62 says:

          crazy~ America is not a christian nation, not by words, deed or proclamation. As a non christian myself, I’m glad for that. I can speak my truth about justice and not worry about some religious nut quoting the bible at me re: the biblical authority about {whatever; slavery, women’s rights, gays, adultery, etc…}. MY moral authority comes from deeper than a book.


          • crazy1946 says:

            Considering that the majority of the founding fathers were not Christian and were in fact Deists, it would be seem that if one were to claim that it was founded and still continues to be a Christian nation, it would be a claim not founded in factual data. I personally believe in live and let live when it comes to religion and base my opinions and feeling for other people on more important things such as empathy for others, honor, treatment of our fellow man kind and just as import their treatment of other inhabitants of this planet (animals and etc.).
            Now why would you be scared to visit my rock, my four legged child (as well as myself) is a sucker for a sweet voice and a gentle touch….. trust me, he can be compromised! 🙂

          • cielo62 says:

            crazy~ Well, OK then.  🙂   Sweet music and a sweet treat usually do the trick! Seriously, I agree that empathy, honor and all those values you mentioned are NOT copyrighted by any one religion (although too many christians feel they have the patent on them). I know we’d get along just fine!


  77. SlingTrebuchet says:

    I should bring some balance to the discussion of Juror B37.
    Her interview was not all bad. Really 🙂

    She says that although she came from the courtroom thinking “not guilty”, two of them thought “manslaughter” and one of them “M2”.
    She indicated that the final verdict was ruled by the jury instructions and not by what the jury believed.

    She says that she is sure that Zimmerman lied (“fabrications and enhancements”).
    She says that nobody knows where Zimmerman went in those 2 unexplained minutes.
    She says that Zimmerman should not have got out of the truck, that he didn’t know where to stop because he was frustrated and so badly wanted to catch those people.
    She says that she would not be happy to have Zimmerman on her neighborhood watch if he behaved like he did that night.
    She says that Zimmerman confronted Martin.

    All of that was trumped in her mind because of “SYG” (which was NOT the defence ) – but let’s take it just that she meant her own limited concept of what “self defence” means.

    More on this at

    Aside: As for B37’s intelligence and communications skills v. Jeantel, consider her explanation of why Jeantel could not have heard anything of the fight.

    • Malisha says:

      Her explanations after the fact about what went on in the jury room are not to be believed, because naturally, since she told all this in the context of wanting her book to be a big hit, she was telling a story SHE LIKED TO TELL and she was telling a self-aggrandizing story and it is not more likely to be the truth than Fogen’s story about what happened that night.

      The major point is that she lied during voir dire.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I’d agree with you, Malisha. Plus, the other four white jurors distanced themselves from her and said her story is not their story. So no point defending her at this time.

    • Xena says:


      Aside: As for B37′s intelligence and communications skills v. Jeantel, consider her explanation of why Jeantel could not have heard anything of the fight.

      Right! She also thought that the physician’s assistant who testified about recognizing voices in Viet Nam, is a doctor.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Don’t forget that she referred to the peaceful demonstrations in Sanford last year as “riots” during voir dire.

    • ay2z says:

      Rachael, he’s good!

      But I don’t agree that we don’t know what happened that night.
      We know that Trayvon did not divert into a dark area to entrap his stalker, we know Trayvon did not think to ‘arm’ himself with his big can of soft drink or remove his ear pieces and put his phone away for safe keeping,

      Instead, Trayvon was headed to where he belonged, bee line, as the crow flies as closly as possible.

      We know he was prepared to use his firearm to kill because that was the intent of the firearm purchase and training and choice of no safety feature, quick and immediate use once drawn from his waistband, no delays, until he got the bullet aimed at a place and in a way to be ‘on’ target, for a kill shot with a hollow point.

      This was not a shot where it was a dangerous use of a firearm to ‘others’, to sleeping or playing children or their families.

      This was a neat package of events, circumstances that were idea to surveille, push, worry, and read the intent of this young man, to push him back into darkness and somehow get to him with a flashlight ‘off’.

      Trayvon could not prepare, did not prepare, and let this man in the direction of his home, and he did not know gz got out of his car, ‘he ran’, ‘you basically wrote him off at that point?” (serino to gz), “Yeah”.

      We know the child, the woman, the young adult, the middle aged person, who would be followed like this, would be wary, alert to possible danger and keep moving. It’s what people are told to do.

      The idea that ‘he’s coming towards me now’ was taken as Trayvon advancing on fogen, is rediculous at the point where fogen says it happened. Trayvon was walking towards home, and gz inserted himself at the clubhouse, between the direction Trayvon was walking, and parked and waited and called. Of course he was coming ‘towards’ fogen, Trayvon would have had to alter completely, his direct path towards home, and head away from home to not continue his path home.

      • Rachael says:

        I agree with you about not agreeing with that part. There were a couple of other things too, but he made some points about how this is part of a very scary bigger picture too.

    • Rachael says:

      Thank you.

    • Malisha says:

      Let me understand: does this petition ask for action from COREY? I don’t want to ask her for action because that gives HER a chance to make another theatrical production to avoid being investigated by the feds for what SHE did deliberately to screw this trial. We need to demand DOJ investigation of B-37 and everyone else who deliberately derailed the trial down there, not an insider pretending to police another insider. B-37 is Corey’s best friend in this mess; she’s BDLR’s best friend in this mess; she’s Deborah Nelson’s best friend in this mess.

      Remember: Nelson wouldn’t let REAL voice experts testify but she allowed a silly cartoon that would influence the weak and dim minds of jurors and that was NOT AN ACCEPTED TECHNOLOGY to be shown at closing, when it was most influential. I say none of them is to be trusted with anything ever again.

  78. Woow! says:

    The DOJ is not going to go after CAC and that’s a shame.

    • Rachael says:

      Did you really think they would?

    • cielo62 says:

      Woow~! You know this for a fact? Have they said so?


      • Woow! says:

        Common sense tells me they are not going to do anything but if they do I will be the first to admit I was wrong.

        I doubt I am wrong. If they refused to get involved and call what those boys in Jasper did the Mr. Byrd hate crime I highly doubt they would find CAC violated TM civil rights.

        • fauxmccoy says:


          as i understand it, the mathew shepard james byrd jr. hate crime act came into being specifically because of those horrific acts. bush threatened veto and it was not signed until obama came into office. bush’s DoJ of course refused to do anything federally to the sick fucks (excuse my language, please, can think of no more appropriate words) who perpetrated these crimes. both crimes occurred in 1998 and the previous ‘hate crime act’ only provided protection while the victim was engaged in a federally protected activity such as voting or going to school.


  79. ay2z says:

    When is a lie not a lie?

    When you get your spouse to do the lying and take all the blame for you?

    When you are never held accountable for anything anyway?

    When you have a bad memory anyway?

    When the lie doesn’t sound like you lying anyway?

    When you can get away with a lie about not knowing you were recorded anyway?

    When you wife gets the charges dropped because you were found not guilty of the crime you committed anyway?

  80. colin black says:

    In Scotland we have a jury of 15 an the possible return of three verdicts

    Not Guilty aquited of you go frre man or Woman.
    Guilty as charged ..Down you go your convicted.
    Not Proven..Wich means the jury doesn’t think the person was nessesry innocen yet not enough evidence was produced to convict at this time.
    But if at a future date any new evidence comes to light then the accused will stand trial again for the crime.

    • colin black says:

      An all verdcts are majority that’s why 15 jurours there can never be a tie at say 6 each if there were an even number of jururs.

      Majority rules in Scots law.
      Wich in turn is based on Anceint Roman Law from the Roman Senate.

    • Olivia says:

      “But if at a future date any new evidence comes to light then the accused will stand trial again for the crime.”

      That’s interesting. Last I heard, the percentage of USA population imprisoned is higher than the percentage imprisoned anywhere else in the world.

      I would think that new evidence being a reason for a new trial might cause Scotland to rank higher than the USA in the percentage of population imprisoned, but that doesn’t appear to be the reality.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I think we need to adopt not proven for serious crimes!

  81. colin black says:

    Unfriggin believable

    I visited Statement Analiysis site an a guy P Hyat while extremely fond of laudingis own gifts in detecting lies ect.

    Self Promotion is no promotion in my opinion.

    I useally concur with most of his opinions not all but the majority.

    Well this prick only has a couple of articles backing foggage
    Stateing he was TRUTHFULL

    I jest not

    But the comments below are filled with hate full spitefull unfrigging believable vile things about his Family TRAYVONS an an love ones
    I was almos t speechless

    I waent so radio rental I let my dyslexia word blindness get the better of me.

    Its so frustrating I cant even txt an people just don’t understand why.

    I first had a pc I coulour codd hekeys or sort of

    P was pink tape on top O was orange

    W white tape G reen H I had a wee pic of a horse Y yellow A I had a BUM an so on an so on.

    TillIve finaly figured out where all thease blighter are LETTERS that is.

    Words are no problem but letters iT s like alien or hieroglyphics.

    An they don’t even stay the same apparently its th raret form of dyslexia all I know is its a pain in the ass in this techno Era

    I never used t pay it no heed when I left education s I knew I was never going to be a typist by profffesion.

    But this innerwebb thingy revelution caught beoff gaurdan at an extreme disadvantage.

    Luckily I went to a special secondry were we were taught to use a type writer with the coulorcode I described a be.
    Well color code or visul code what ever suits

    Like so I re used it an made my own colour coded key board
    For K forinstance I wrote a wee kinks cause I know kinks starts with a K.

    But now my friggin eyesight going as well.

    I think it shows in this angry reply I wrote to one of P Hyatts readrers
    Or as I will re name him P Hate.

    July 20, 2013 at 1:45 PM

    Blogger ecossie possie said…
    Georgia Girl said…
    I think George had no other choice.Trayvon punched him in the nose and got the better of George.Poor George can never have a life without watching his back at all times.All the race baiters made this into something it was not.Trayvon’s parents have gotten lots of money in those trashcans they pass around.I pray for the Zimmermans and wish them well.They seem to be very nice people.

    Id buy you a dimond rihg my friend if it would make you seem ok.

    Ah cant say to much for money but money cant buy you LOVE.
    Cant buy you love
    No No no NO

    An it also cantnot buy you the return of a MURDERED CHILD
    Shot through the heart with a hollow point bullet.
    With the imminent arrival of PLICE an safety
    Safytey for Trayvn

    Arrest for illegaly detain a minor at gun point for wannabe herocop/murderer/raceist P OS / Zimmerman

    He kew the police were imminent an he had a wrist lock on hisvictim an was no where ner death

    Ive had worse cuts fucking shaveing.

    He MURDERED TRAYVON beause TRAYVON was a legal tenant an invited geust of a HOME OWNER.

    The murder wasnot a legal resident he was sqating ina home in fore clousure because he refused to pay RENT TO THE LAND LORD.

    He had a few centshalf a dollar in his man purse

    An 16 dollars in xa checking account of to buy a weeks worth of grogeries?

    Yeah sure he was with a loaded gun that he carried every where but forgot all about.

    Even although he claims to b egetting beaten to death.

    Anonly remembered he had it when he though t he say the Black gut looking at it in the pith dark so pulled it out agter getting him in a wrist lock an shot him one time.

    An when te Police arrived an said
    Who shot him
    He said I did even although later he will claim to not know he had shot him thought he had missed an didn’t even know he was dead.

    An that I suppose he thought they cover all surviveing missed gun shot victims ith a yellow death blanket.

    Sure sure his Parents got some fucking money so did this murdering piece of shit

    An hey Trayvons Parents ould give every cent back a hunded billion fold if this just ddnt happen if they coul hold an love the re son again

    If raceist pieces of shit an ppoligists lik you an PETER HYAT didn’t alow an encourage such thugs as Zimmerman with your slightly right of ATTILA THE HUN POLITICS an blatant Raceist Mind sets

    fir shame to thin I once respected you a was foled again .

    I suppose because I being a human being an part of the human race as oppsed toany colour or cred .
    An see every one of us as human homo sapin an not a differing race as an ifeior differing specie .

    That view point I notonly archacic it fucking nsane man game over you pratz.

    July 21, 2013 at 10:34 PM

    • Olivia says:


      That you post in spite of your dyslexia is something to be proud of. It couldn’t be easy to do.

      “Seamus” seems to form an opinion about a person, and then make his so-called scientific statement analysis fit his opinion.

      • Olivia says:

        Also, Seamus claims to now or formerly be employed by a northeastern USA state as a child protective services worker.

        Which is a bit frightening to me. I hope he doesn’t use his version of statement analysis to judge the parents or guardians of children that he has contact with as an employee or former employee of the state.

        • Malisha says:

          Olivia, I am sorry to report to you that about 3/4 of all the protecctive services workers I have ever met were not only bigots but also liars themselves. It’s astonishing how easy it is to get that job; you don’t even have to show that you’re not an abuser yourself. I know of CPS workers whose own children are not only OBVIOUSLY physically abused, I know of two in Iowa whose mother was DIRECTOR of CPS and both those kids were beaten AND molested and one of them was a little arsonist who even set fire to a cabin at summer camp. CPS workers have relatively low-paying jobs but unlimited power and the abusive people LOVE THAT JOB.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            malisha — this will not shock or surprise you, but when my husband (then boyfriend) and i were in college and spent ‘date night’ at the battered womens’ shelter, one of our local CPS workers was arrested for leaving his 9 month old in his car in below freezing temps at 3 AM so he could partake in his gambling obsession. god only knows how long the situation had been ongoing. that was before i became an employee there, we were both mandated reporters as a result of our training/jobs with the shelter. every time we were in a situation where we were supposed to make that call to CPS, we always wondered if we were in fact doing the right thing.

          • Malisha says:

            Faux, I feel your pain. Often I have wondered what to do when I suspected abuse, because making a report puts the kid into the jaws of the CPS workers who are often just power-hungry terrorists with absolute control of children’s lives. I know a kid who was interviewed by a CPS worker and when he said he was not abused by his mother and wanted to go home to his mother, the worker called him a “wus” and told him that until he changed his mind, he was never going to get any privileges in the group home he was locked up in. Six weeks later they still hadn’t changed his mind so they proceeded without him and never let him see his mother again. He wrote notes and tried to smuggle them out telling his mother to try to find him at various places and even wrote suicide notes and the CPS workers threw the out or sometimes confronted him with them and punished him by taking away his possessions.

            You don’t even know when you should report abuse because the kids can get subjected to even worse abuse in the system.

    • longtimegeek says:

      I’ve read that website on and off for a couple of years. It’s pretty good. I found it really odd that it essentially didn’t cover this case, because GZ is low hanging fruit for statement analysis (which is about identifying lies, for those who don’t know). Not covering this case was a dead give away about it’s stance on the case.

      The comments are normally positive towards the blog owner and his family, but many people have commented that they are leaving the blog, because of this case. Other people have been commenting about GZ’s lying, which is fallling on deaf ears. It’s another example of the power of racism. A professional lie detector is blind to GZ’s lies!!! I don’t see myself continuing to read the blog for long, because I’m so turned off. But, for now, I’m still trying to learn about why people fall for lies, and this is a stunning example.

      My favorite blog for lie detection is Eyes for Lies, which is a much better blog, even though Eyes doesn’t post as much. She is an amazing lie detector and doesn’t need to study people in detail to figure them out. She doesn’t believe GZ or John Good. She does believe Rachel Jeantel.

    • jodiwankanobi says:

      haha Colin i LOVE your reply….you made very good points and gave them a virtual beat down at the same time….love it!!!

  82. racerrodig says:

    Here is the link to the petition I started to have Fogen prosecuted.

  83. fauxmccoy says:

    some ‘feel good’ stuff that did come from this whole sorry situation

  84. KateW says:

    Someone on social media just posted this. A mistrial was declared in a case after a guilty verdict!!!

    There may be hope after all. But I wonder what the laws are in Florida and would they even grant this. I have read some of the posts here that said mistrials were granted but in extreme cases. In this case there was extreme misconduct on the part of them allowing unsupervised visits to family members. Also they need to find out when this agent for this book deal was contacted. They also need to find out what juror was relaying information going on during deliberations.

    Here is that link to the mistrial declared after a guilty verdict.

    • LBTG says:

      The difference is the guilty verdict as in Tibbs vs Florida

    • fauxmccoy says:


      the case you brought up with a mistrial declared after trial was on a guilty verdict. fred will correct me if i am wrong, but there can be no mistrial declared upon acquittal, to do so would violate the 5th amendment (double jeopardy).

      – – – – –
      from cornell law school

      ” Reprosecution Following Acquittal.—That a defendant may not be retried following an acquittal is “the most fundamental rule in the history of double jeopardy jurisprudence.”90 “[T]he law attaches particular significance to an acquittal. To permit a second trial after an acquittal, however mistaken the acquittal may have been, would present an unacceptably high risk that the Govern[p.1289]ment, with its vastly superior resources, might wear down the defendant so that ‘even though innocent he may be found guilty.”’91 While in other areas of double jeopardy doctrine consideration is given to the public–safety interest in having a criminal trial proceed to an error– free conclusion, no such balancing of interests is permitted with respect to acquittals, “no matter how erroneous,” no matter even if they were “egregiously erroneous.”92

      The acquittal being final, there is no governmental appeal constitutionally possible from such a judgment. This was firmly established in Kepner v. United States,93 which arose under a Philippines appeals system in which the appellate court could make an independent review of the record, set aside the trial judge’s decision, and enter a judgment of conviction.94 Previously, under the due process clause, there was no barrier to state provision for prosecutorial appeals from acquittals.95 But there are instances in which the trial judge will dismiss the indictment or information without intending to acquit or in circumstances in which retrial would not be barred, and the prosecution, of course, has an interest in seeking on appeal to have errors corrected. Until 1971, however, the law providing for federal appeals was extremely difficult to apply and insulated from review many purportedly erroneous legal rulings,96 but in that year Congress enacted a new statute permitting appeals in all criminal cases in which indictments are dis[p.1290]missed, except in those cases in which the double jeopardy clause prohibits further prosecution.97 In part because of the new law, the Court has dealt in recent years with a large number of problems in this area.”


      • KateW says:

        Yes, it was a guilty verdict; however, why is there a reversal for one and not the other? I wanted to share it anyway because I said the same thing to the person and then they put this one up.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          as i said, a mistrial after acquittal violates the 5th amendment — but i’ll take a look at the link you provided.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          the link you provided was a personal injury case (civil) NOT a criminal case. i do not think you will find a mistrial declared post acquittal on a criminal case, not ever. it violates the 5th amendment, that simple.

          • Xena says:

            @fauxmccoy. There is one case where the accused was tried twice for the same murder. The initial trial was held in Cook County, IL. The defense attorney arranged for a bench trial with a judge who could be bribed. The defendant’s name was Harry Aleman.

            The state case moved up to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit. That court held that an act of fraud resulted in acquittal; and the defendant can be retried again for the same crime without it being double jeopardy because the defendant was never in jeopardy to begin with.

            I’m not sure how this would apply to fraud within a jury.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            ok, so there is 1, under extremely peculiar circumstances. honestly, do you think gz will be tried again for the same crime?

          • Xena says:


            do you think gz will be tried again for the same crime?

            Not by the State of Florida, and also because there are laws to try fraudulent jury members.

      • concernedczen says:

        There have been mistrials after an acquittal in the past when jury tampering was shown.

        The chances of that happening in this case (even if clear evidence of jury tampering is found) are none to none.

      • Malisha says:

        Faux, correct.
        Mistrial after guilty verdict is perfectly all right and consistent with due proces.

        NOTHING can change an acquittal.

        Federal prosecution, however, can follow a failed state prosecution if, in the state prosecution, the state did not apply constitutional principles and also because the double jeopardy for state and federal prosecutions has already been dealt with. MANY people have been convicted federally after being acquitted in state courts of associated crimes. Rodney King I think was an example of that.

        • Malisha says:

          Here’s what Wikipedia says about it:

          Rodney Glen King (April 2, 1965 – June 17, 2012) was an African-American construction worker who, while on parole for robbery, became nationally known after being beaten by Los Angeles police officers following a high-speed car chase on March 3, 1991. George Holliday, a resident in the nearby area, witnessed the beating and videotaped much of it from the balcony of his nearby apartment.

          The videotaped footage shows five Los Angeles area officers surrounding King and several of them striking him repeatedly. During the beating of King, other officers stood by, without seeming to take action to stop King from being struck. A portion of the footage was aired around the world, inflaming public outrage in Los Angeles and other American cities where racial tension was often high. The videotape also increased public sensitivity to, and anger about, police brutality, racism, and other social inequalities throughout the United States.

          Four of the police officers from the LAPD who engaged in the incident were charged in Los Angeles County Superior Court with assault with a deadly weapon and use of excessive force for their conduct during the incident. After a judicial finding that a fair and impartial jury could not be impaneled in Los Angeles County, the case was given a change of venue to the city of Simi Valley, in Ventura County, where they were tried. On April 29, 1992, three of the four police officers, (Koon, Wind, and Briseno) were acquitted of all charges. The jury acquitted the fourth officer, (Powell), on the assault with a deadly weapon charge but failed to reach a verdict on the use of excessive force charge. The jury deadlocked at 8-4 in favor of acquittal.
          The acquittals are generally considered to have triggered the 1992 Los Angeles riots, in which 53 people were killed, and over two thousand were injured. The riots ended after soldiers from the United States Army National Guard, along with United States Marines from nearby Camp Pendleton, California, were called in to assist local authorities and quell the riots.

          On August 4, 1992 a Federal Grand Jury after hearing evidence from federal prosecutors, indicted the four officers on charges of violating King’s civil rights. The four men were put on trial on February 25, 1993 in the United States District Court for the Central District of California located in downtown Los Angeles. On April 16, 1993 the trial ended with two of the police officers, (Koon and Powell) found guilty, and subsequently imprisoned. The other two officers, (Wind and Briseno) were acquitted.

          Now, if we did not get a US Supreme Court ruling in favor of the convicted police officers after the 1993 conviction for beating Rodney King, I’d say we certainly can’t rule out a federal prosecution of Fogen in 2014 or so for violation of Trayvon Martin’s civil rights. Rodney King’s case certainly WAS a high profile case and guess what: Rodney King was NOT perfect; he was NOT a choirboy. Yet his civil rights were supposed to be protected by our federal government, the same federal government that is required to offer redress for the violation of Trayvon Martin’s civil rights NOW.

          AND we can look to DOJ to investigate NOT just the death of Trayvon Martin but the prosecution of Fogen and see if THAT violated anybody’s civil rights.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          yes, of course. that is not double jeopardy as different crimes are being prosecuted under different jurisdictions. i certainly think the DoJ should pursue, but i do not expect charges, much less a conviction. it would be a rare case indeed if he would be re-tried for murder under any jurisdiction due to anything which was mistrial worthy. as far as i know, acquittal = acquittal.

          i have seen a few people bring this info up and don’t want anyone to get their hopes up for a mistrial in the original M2 trial after acquittal, because it just does not happen.

  85. colin black says:

    When is Jodi Arias re do over her death sentence miss trial unable to decide verdict thingy comeing up ?

    ps off topic obviously.

    I need me a Marqez fix after the inefectulall prosecution not that it would have changed a pre ordained jury verdict mindset.

    • colin black says:

      If only foggage had pulled this atrocity in Arizonia Marqez would have torn up his ass so bud that he would never suffer from constipation again.

      An he would have done so not mob handed thrre people.

      Nope single handidly Marqez in da BOMB.

  86. colin black says:

    To tune of jingle bells .

    Jungle Yells Jungle YELLS
    Trayvon didn’t say.
    Yo Homie a problem is comeing your way

    Jungle YELLS Jungle Yells
    Zimmerman did say fists were comeing his way
    An he pulled out his gun an shot Tracys SON

    Because he thought he was TRAVONS PRAY


    Running past the T a victim he did see an he showed no mercy he just let him plea an plea.
    For once he passed the T he was in scary terrorty the police an bells would come
    An see him with a gun so

    Jungle Yells Jungle Yells Jungle all the way the man in blue will not be true if your victim was a stray

    Jungle yells justice smells Trayvon was slayed the foggages gun
    was the one thing that got him away..
    Jungle Yells Jungle Yells aN WARRIOR MENTALITY.

  87. Sophia33 says:


    I went to the ACLU Web site. They did indeed write this letter.

    • colin black says:

      erm whats the ACLU ?


      • fauxmccoy says:

        colin — the ACLU stands for the American Civil Liberties Union. their purpose is to promote the civil rights of every american, even if that should be the KKK exercising their freedom of assembly and freedom of speech. they will provide legal representation for citizens whose civil rights have been violated, if necessary. i have been a supporter my entire adult life. they are generally mocked by our more conservative countrymen.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        from their own website

        “The ACLU is our nation’s guardian of liberty, working daily in courts, legislatures and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties that the Constitution and laws of the United States guarantee everyone in this country.

        These rights include:

        Your First Amendment rights – freedom of speech, association and assembly; freedom of the press, and freedom of religion.
        Your right to equal protection under the law – protection against unlawful discrimination.
        Your right to due process – fair treatment by the government whenever the loss of your liberty or property is at stake.
        Your right to privacy – freedom from unwarranted government intrusion into your personal and private affairs.

        The ACLU also works to extend rights to segments of our population that have traditionally been denied their rights, including people of color; women; lesbians, gay men, bisexuals and transgender people; prisoners; and people with disabilities.

        If the rights of society’s most vulnerable members are denied, everybody’s rights are imperiled. Support the ACLU today.”

      • cielo62 says:

        American Civil Liberties Union.


        • colin black says:

          ok Dokie Faux an cielo

          I get the picture they may not agree with what you say or do brigade but will fight to the death to preserve your right
          To either do or don’t do whatever it is you want to do or say.

          Liberal fucking hyprcritical fencesitting status quo its broken so don’t bother fixing it as it will just break down again head in the sand do Do nothing Fucktards..

          Nope never heard of people like that

          • Malisha says:

            When I went to them (about 100 times) looking for help with unconstitutional rulings that (for instance) mothers were not allowed to speak with their children about sexual abuse (many MANY courts order mothers not to discuss this with their children or they will lose custody AND visitation with the kids) and that children were not allowed to TELL people they had been abused (enforced by child protective services agencies in all 50 states), they would not help. We even BROUGHT them the amicus briefs already written and asked them to sign on and they said no. THEY also say that “money = speech” so folks like ALEC and KOCH can therefore control our government. To them, that is freedom.

      • Malisha says:

        American Civil Liberties Union.
        They’ve been on the wrong side of many big cases; they like the thrill of victory. Jackboots kinda get them all squishy too.

    • LBTG says:

      The ACLU letter is here:

      Click to access aclu_letter_to_ag_holder_re_gzimmerman_case.pdf

      ACLU is saying it would be Double Jeopardy to prosecute fogen for same transaction.

      • Malisha says:

        Not, however, if the state prosecution is shown to have been deliberately skewed. Also, federal prosecution is not ruled out by state prosecution for a different crime. He deprived Trayvon Martin of his civil rights from the beginning of the NEN call until the split second BEFORE shooting him in the heart. He does not need to be prosecuted for anything he did AFTER terrorizing the boy, chasing him, depriving him of his freedom, and twisting his wrist. The shot itself need not be considered. After all the state prosecution omitted every act right UP until the bullet hit Trayvon’s chest. So it is NOT the same act as the feds would prosecute for in case they indicted Fogen for the cursing, the racial profiling, the scaring, the chase, the terroristic threatening, the brandishing of the fire-arm. The state said that under Florida law, NONE OF THAT WAS ILLEGAL so they were not prosecuting him for any of that.

        If all of that taken together amounted to a hate crime.
        The fact that Trayvon Martin died from one to three minutes later does not change the fact that Fogen committed all these federal offenses BEFORE Trayvon Martin died.

    • Sophia33 says:

      That article starts off wrong from the beginning. It calls Eric Holder Secretary of Defense. That is Hagel. Eric Holder is the Attorney General.

      • smokeegyrl says:

        Well I mean to say now and instead of “not” so Sophia.. you think this letter is a “fake”

        • Sophia33 says:

          Not sure. I know the article is incorrect about Obama’s position. Not sure about the letter. Need to find other news sources. And the logic of the letter doesn’t seem right. But I’m not a legal scholar. Best to ask the professor.

      • Malisha says:

        It’s not impossible that the ACLU will take or has taken that position. I have not seen them respond to ACTUAL violations of the First Amendment; more often they respond to “violations” that they find sexy. They follow Dershowitz and Turley a lot. AND they have a lot more to say about the rights of Nazis than about the rights of kids like Trayvon Martin. I gave up on them before Y2K.

    • Sophia33 says:

      It appears they did if that letter in the article truly came from the ACLU. I do find it strange though because people have been tried for the same transaction in federal court before. This has especially been the case in Civil Rights issues. So I still find there letter bizarre.

    • smokeegyrl says:

      Well Professor is you see this… maybe you can reply.

  88. Sophia33 says:

    Martin Luther King, III has called on a boycott of Florida Orange Juice.

    • Olivia says:

      That’s great. Glad to hear of the boycotts.

      How about the Koch brothers?

      Anyone know if it is true that they contributed to Zimmerman’s defense fund?

    • colin black says:

      I thought he was out of his Floridian tax/pension murderous income haven

      If I did it

      Or foggages version how I did it hollow point an hollow rhetoric

      Anyhoo though O J was locked away in a Nevada Prison why boycott him.

      An should we boycott N A S A

      Disnney Star Wars Pan Handles?

      Seiriously I love orange juice I live on the stuff.

      • Sophia33 says:

        Does it have to be Florida Orange Juice?

      • fauxmccoy says:

        colin — does the UK import orange juice from florida? i would assume that there are much closer regions which produce significant orange crops such as spain, italy, and israel.

        your former produce stocking goddess,

        • colin black says:

          most of our oj comes from Isreal so lets not go there PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE.

          We promised them a long time ago that if thet stopped Murdering our Soldiers in Palisteine we would grant them Nation hood an buy there Oranges forever Jafffa very tasty to an juicy.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            all i am saying is that i know the proper climates for orange crops to thrive through my professional work and i figured you could easily avoid juice from florida.

            juice from blood oranges from italy or spain is fanfuckingtastic if you have not yet had the pleasure. i have a dwarf blood orange tree growing in a large container on my california patio and it makes me very happy 🙂 (along with the rest of my dwarf citrus crop)

          • cielo62 says:

            colin~ Israel is a real passion of mine. British Jews lent millions of pounds to England to fight WWII, in exchange for that tiny piece of land they got after wards. They also personally BOUGHT millions of acres from nomads who did not have the same definition of land ownership. It is now a beautiful country torn by different definitions of ownership, not unlike the US. Many of the technological devices we use today were developed there, not just refining weapons. Let us not get into that bit of political wrangling. I support Israel. I’ll leave it at that.


      • dianetrotter says:

        Can you buy fresh squeezed OJ locally?

    • colin black says:

      This is he type of fruit mentality that needs banning an boycotting this type of fruit is still ripe in America

    • J4TMinATL says:

      MLK’s sister says her brother would have agreed with verdict. WTF

  89. kllypyn says:

    I expected Serino and Singleton to do the right thing.Because at the end of the day an innocent kid was dead.they knew murderrman was lying you can tell by the tone of the questioning and the fact that serino recommended murder 2 ,3 times before he settled on manslaughter.

    They didn’t believe his story at all. And i guarantee you they knew the instant they heard those screams that was trayvon screaming.They seemed to be more concerned about covering their asses than the truth. They have no business being on any police force. Singleton was belligerant to the prosecution.what happened to speaking for the victim?

    If trayvon has survived his encounter with zimmerman HE MOST LIKELY WOULD HAVE BEEN THE ONLY ONE TO TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED THAT NIGHT. The prosecution dropped the ball way too many times. they were too damned timid and they let west get away with far too much,the judge included. they never mentioned the L: shaped tearing in trayvon’s shirts during the ballistic expert testimony. They should have pointed out the blood flow on murderman’s head and how it flowed toward his face. they should have tore the expert apArt with that nonsense about gravity AND the crap ABOUT PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO MOVE AFTER BEING SHOT IN THE HEART. THAT MAY HAPPEN WITH LOWER LIFE FORMS BUT NOT HUMANS.

    IN TRAYVON’S CASE HE FELL WHERE HE STOOD. THEY ALLOWED THE DEFENSE TO PUT TRAYVON ON TRIAL.They should have never let the defense get away with using an obviously doctored photo. Zimmerman never had any horizontal cuts on his head. I also believe the defense knowingly allowed people to lie under oath,because they know damned well that was not Zimmerman screaming.

    The defense won their case by lying cheating and suborning perjury. And it didn’t hurt that the jurors didn’t do their jobs as required by law. they completely ignored those screams. which were the last words spoken by trayvon.He wasn’t just screaming.He was crying. Trayvon was so scared he was crying. I believe he started to cry because he saw those people who saw part of what was going on and did nothing and he realized they were gonna let him get killed.J

    eremy and that Jena lady whatever her name is saw more than they are telling. Jon the mma liar also saw more than they are telling. they may have even seen the murder it self. they saw Trayvon trying to get away when he was shot. they just don’t care because he was just a black kid.

    Trayvon was innocent he did nothing. he was the one who was assaulted he simply defended himself and tried to escape. the Martin’s need to let it all hang out tell the world what they think about the SPD the Zimmerman and conservative groups. If i were them i’d call them out on every lie they’ve ever told.about Trayvon. I’d call out the Zimmerman’s i’d call out their friends i’d call out Zimmerman’s lawyers. i’d call out Serino i’d call ,out Singleton and i would call out the jurors because there was more than enough evidence to put Zimmerman away for life.I wouldn’t criticise the prosecution but i would mention evidence which wasn’t detailed more.

    The time for patty cake is over they don’t have to worry about messing up the case. the time has come to tell the world how they feel and to defend their son more vigorously. Trayvon cant defend himself against those lies it’s up to them. Stop letting the zimmerman’s continue to tell those obvious lies. even they know Trayvon never attacked Murderman. I’m not trying to criticise the martins i just think they need to let people know what trayvon was really like get his friends to say something. Even now after the trial; The zimmerman’s and their buddies continue to trash him. THEY MUST NOT ALLOW THAT TO CONTINUE. Trayvon can’t defend his reputation so the ball is in their court.

    • Jasmine says:

      Do you know what got me about Jeremy and John?? They went outside after the shot. Now if it was too dark to see much how in the world did they feel safe enough to go outside with the shooter who was still roaming around and Offc. Smith who came on the scene with his gun holstered. No they did not have anything to fear from the shooter therefore they had to have known that it was Fogen. Normal people hide if they hear shooting and don’t come out until the cops arrive because it is unsafe. We have something to fear but they did not. So yeah they saw what Fogen did and did nothing, nothing to help Trayvon and I hope that it haunts them everyday for the rest of their lives.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I agree – reasonable people would not go outside after a shot. They might look out their windows. Jeremy and John knew Fogen did the shooting.

      • Mojo says:

        I always wondered the same thing. Who the hell goes outside to check out what happened right after hearing a gun shot?

    • Olivia says:

      Jeremy didn’t testify. Jeremy, who saw and heard BEFORE and AFTER Zimmerman fired a bullet into Trayvon’s heart.

      He saw and heard before and after. His wife only heard before, and from a distance further away.

      Jeremy had more to testify about than his wife did, but the prosecutors did not let the jurors hear from him.

    • colin black says:

      Why not seems par for the course at least in two Floridian trials Ive watched

      CAYLEES was Murdered an the defence in that case used

      Even more blatant photo shoped photos of Caylee reaching up an opening a slideing screen door.

      The image was stretched an one of the trainers was obviouslt doubled over an under lieing image.

      Caylee wasn’t even Thrre when her life ended an was short slightly pudgy like most toddlers.

      An yet the I,age shown in court showed a slender taller Caylee at least 6 inches taller than any preiviously seen images.

      And there were thousands of images.

      But thease were blatantly manipulated an unchallenged and like foggage a blatantly guilty person walks despite lie up on lie an lie lie lie.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      I agree with you, Jasmine.

    • longtimegeek says:

      The prosecution has received a lot of criticism for not presenting their own version of events in their closing statement. I don’t know why they couldn’t have presented something like the following, instead of just letting the defense tell multiple tall and conflicting tales. I posted a similar sequence of events before, but this is a work in progress for me. I’m trying to remind myself of elements of the story that are powerful to me. For example, you reminded me about TM crying. Thank you!

      GZ pushed TM to the ground and jumped on top of him, causing TM to say “Get off, get off”! About 30 seconds later, TM started yelling and screaming for 40+ continuous seconds, including blood-curdling screaming, because GZ had a gun on him and probably because GZ said things to him like, “I got you. You’re going to die, tonight.” Even though TM was in the backyard of many homes with their lights on at about 7 pm (a place where he probably didn’t consider his life to be in threat) and at a time when many different people might be walking their dogs through a well known dog walk area, no one could help him, even if they wanted to. GZ disregarded everyone who stepped or yelled outside their homes, who could have helped TM, while TM continued screaming. GZ, who had the gun and who hadn’t suffered any life threatening injuries during the first ~30 seconds or even the next 40+ seconds, certainly wasn’t looking for help for himself. He took one fatal shot aimed at TM’s heart, as TM cried. One fatal shot that had TM’s shirt and sweatshirt simultaneously pulled down and to the left by half a foot of the shot that went directly into his heart. TM was either still on the bottom, as many witnesses saw at some point, or was managing get up and trying to pull away from GZ, so he could run away again.

      After GZ took a single fatal shot, he was calm, including his vital signs, and he never did anything at all to help TM. Worse, he (insert stuff he did to TM that made me stop being able to follow this case for months, because I still can’t.) GZ’s calm and actions afterwards were not indicative of a person who had been continuously screaming for 40+ seconds, a person who had just been through a traumatic event, or a person who had regard for human life. His message to his wife was, “Just tell her I shot someone.” Many months later, he still has no regrets, he still wouldn’t change anything, and he said it was God’s plan. He was still calm, cold blooded and without any remorse.

      Based on GZ’s own accounts, every action he took that night was inconsistent with his years of criminology, neighborhood watch, concealed weapons permit, bouncer, MMA, etc. training, much of which repeated the same concepts. GZ’s only role in his neighborhood was to use he eyes and ears. TM was not engaged and did not even appear to be engaged in an illegal activity, so GZ should have moved on. He was not to follow, something NEN reminded him of. He was not to follow with a gun. He was not to stalk. He was not to confront. Even if GZ and TM happened to run into each other at some point, GZ was obligated to identify himself, which he never did. Instead, he huffed and puffed his way to TM, far away from his vehicle, behind buildings, and attacked him. Even martial arts training, as violent as it can be, is about avoiding conflict first and foremost. Then, it’s about defense. It’s about offense as needed. Lethal force is a last resort. GZ wrongfully racially profiled an unarmed teenager, and appointed himself judge, jury and executioner.

      • Malisha says:

        The prosecution could have made their own little cartoon, you know. They had time once they learned of the defense cartoon. The prosecution cartoon (it would only have taken a computer animator with a decent program about 8 hours) could have shown Fogen leaving his house after telling Shellie, “Don’t worry cutie pie, tonight I’ll bring in a suspect and then we’ll be bigshots here and nobody will care if we can’t pay our rent.” Then he gets in the truck and drives around and finds TM. Then he does what our timeline shows, and NONE of what he has told Singleton, Serino or Erwin. Or Osterman. Then he cuts off TM from the south and comes up on him where the first piece of evidence falls. He shoves TM and says, in the cartoon, “What you doing around here, n****r?” [remember, the cartoon is not evidence, just used for “demonstration” so it does not have to be accurate] TM runs and Fogen follows, both of them flailing arms, past the windows of two homes. Fogen catches Trayvon and they struggle and then fall and roll around for a minute and then Fogen grabs TM as TM briefly gets enough space to run away. John Good comes out and sees part of the struggle and Fogen yells to him, “Help me get this n****r, help me help me help me” and Good goes back inside, saying he will call 911. Jayne S looks out, dialing. TM is screaming, “I’m begging you!” and Fogen finally gets him in a wrist lock and TM throws both hands up and out, screaming, but the motion makes it hard for Fogen to shoot. Fogen says, “you’re gonna die tonight MF” and grabs Trayvon’s hoodie to keep him from fleeing again, then aims and shoots one shot, but Trayvon falls so fast that Fogen gets lurched forward, having not yet let go of the hoodie. He sits on TM’s back and thinks for a minute, and the thought bubble says: “OK, I better make this look like self-defense” and then he gets up, answers questions about his hollowpoint bullet, makes a phone call to let Tim Smith know what went down, and then gets his picture taken by Jon the photog.

        Pretty little cartoon, just as good as any other little cartoon. Prosecution could easily have put that up during the rebuttal closing argument. And as Junior said, a picture is worth a thousand words.

  90. smokeegyrl says:

    I couldn’t resist… I miss this blog. I tried but this was also important for me to post here.

  91. Malisha says:

    I hope the feds grant immunity to Fogen so he can be forced to give them statements about everything that happened from 2005 forward. Don’t lock him up for murder or for hate crime: GRANT HI IMMUNITY and make him TALK. Make him tell everything about who said what to whom and when. AND if he makes an untrue statement to the feds, then prosecute him for making untrue statements to federal agents: FOR THAT YOU GET SERIOUS PRISON TIME in a federal prison where your buddies don’t buy the tricks.

    Make him tell everything. If he’s still able to be prosecuted, he has the Fifth Amendment on his side. If you give him immunity from criminal prosecution, he has no route to avoid being used as a material witness to acts of state government corruption that is punishable by the feds.

  92. Tee says:

    I was reading an article about a a woman that ran to a couples home in DeLand, Fl after being raped. This woman was naked crying, screaming and praying for help. The couple refused to open the door for her but called 911, it took 11 minutes for them to arrive. This is minutes from Sanford, what is wrong in that place, where you can charge a teen for not intervening when a teen girl was under the influence and raped but when adults stand by a watch & listen to a kid being shot to death or a women pleading for a safe place from her rapist are not held to the same standards. Is this crazy as hell or is if just me. How do kids get held responsible for the actions of others but adults get to stand by with there hands behind their backs and claim they feared for their safety so they did nothing but call. Wtf has this world to

  93. LBTG says:

    Have you heard of the influence of “Black Twitter”. According to a newstory on CNN, Black Twitter got B37’s book deal killed.

  94. LBTG says:

    Here’s another guy (Mr. Roop) who used SYG in nearby Cape Coral. A door-to-door salesman selling steaks, seafood… was killed. Seven years ago, Roop pointed his gun at a meter reader who was there to read his electric meter.

    I read about Mr. Roop earlier and think of that when going about our business of selling real estate.

    • Olivia says:

      “As Rainey lay on the ground, Roop fired another bullet into the back of his head. Roop told police that he was in fear and thought Rainey was reaching for something and he shot him in the head “for effect.”

      “Roop was found not guilty by a jury.”

      Roop must have paid a jury consultant to stack the jurors in his favor, because surely, a random group of Floridians serving on a jury would have returned a guilty verdict after hearing Roop say that he shot Rainey in the head “for effect”.

    • Tzar says:

      forgive my French but HOLY FUCK!!!

    • groans says:

      That is insane! These juries are NUTS!

      And here I always get the creeps when door-to-door sales people come knocking unexpectedly – it never occurred to me that they might be afraid of ME shooting them. (Of course, it never occurred to me to shoot them, either….)

  95. Olivia says:

    Regarding the Neighborhood Watch sign:

    “We report all suspicious persons and activities to the Sanford Police Department”.

    “Suspicious persons and activities” is so ridiculously subjective.

    Zimmerman’s behavior proves it.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Too bad people at RTL didn’t call on Fogen. It’s my understanding that anyone in the neighborhood constitutes NW, not just the organizers and those officially on the list. We have NW signs in my neighborhood, just an average non-gated open neighborhood in an average US city and I don’t know of any organized NW group here.

      • Olivia says:

        In my state, it is against the motor vehicle law to drive in the dark without headlights on.

        Zimmerman’s driving after dark without headlights put residents at risk of being run over by him, or another vehicle colliding with him.

        A child or adult could easily have walked out in front of his vehicle, not knowing that he was approaching without headlights on.


    • longtimegeek says:

      The sign should say, “We report all suspicious persons and activities to the Sanford Police Department. Then, we stalk, confront, attack and kill them.”

  96. Olivia says:

    An unfair stacking of jurors because the state of Florida did not hire a “jury consultant” to analyze/predict/pick jurors.

    Maybe states should employ professional jury consultants to pick jurors.

    As it is, defendants who can afford to buy a jury consultant may actually be buying a verdict in their favor.

    Is that all it takes? A high-priced jury consultant to hand-pick the jurors who will render a verdict in your favor?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I don’t think too much of this adversarial form of justice. Justice should arrive when the truth is pinpointed, not because the most vicious, lying side wins.

  97. J4TMinATL says:

    Wannabe cops all over the world can receive immunity in criminal court if they are just told to say, I feared for my life.. that is what you are taught in LE and the academy. We’ve enabled cops to lie on the stand too long.

    Police officers are engraved with the code of brotherhood and silence. The unwritten oath that you don’t go against the brotherhood. This attitude is even more apparent when black officers are forced or choose to ignore racial motivations against their own race by their police brothers.


    • Olivia says:

      Zimmerman couldn’t get a job working as a cop, but did manage to get for himself an opportunity to pretend he worked in law enforcement.

      Hence, his referring to Trayvon as “the suspect” the night that he murdered him.

      • commenting says:

        Omara said that he is not a wanna be cop because he was offered a car and uniform and he refused it……y wouldn’t he refuse it? He did not want to announce his presence to the suspicious persons……didn’t somone say that he drove at nights with his lights off….but the state could not use that information because they did not bother to depose the witness who said that, so she could be called to the stand in case this information was needed……did money play a part?

        • Olivia says:

          Interesting. So, the state couldn’t tell the jurors that Zimmerman drove with the headlights of his vehicle off at night, because the state did not depose the witness who saw him do it, but O’Marra could tell the jurors that Zimmerman turned down an offer of a car and uniform.

          Which witness said that Zimmerman turned down an offer of a car and uniform?

          Whose the source? Zimmerman? Or, is that just one of O’Marra’s spur of them moment lies?

        • THE Shadow says:

          Wait, what?
          He was “offered a car and a uniform”?
          By who? What for?
          Is that a normal procedure in a Neighborhood Watch program?

          • Olivia says:

            Xena, thanks for posting the video. I notice the witness describes Citizens on Patrol somewhat, but didn’t say that Zimmerman was offered a patrol car/uniform.

            Likely, Zimmerman never applied for membership in the group, because he knew that he wouldn’t pass the required background check, as Malisha noted.

            Even if he had a clean background, it’s likely that he wouldn’t want to be restricted to their sensible rules, such as always having 2 in the vehicle, and never getting out of the vehicle to pursue.

            He wouldn’t want to be controlled by Citizens on Patrol.

            O’Marra lied when he told jurors that Zimmerman “turned down” a patrol car equipped with lights and a uniform.

            Such was never offered to him, so he couldn’t have turned it down.

            Did Zimmerman ever even have a conversation with anyone at Citizens on Patrol?

            He may have learned about the patrol car and uniform perks from reading at their website.

            This is another example of O’Marra deceiving jurors, and prosecutors letting him do it.

          • Xena says:


            Xena, thanks for posting the video. I notice the witness describes Citizens on Patrol somewhat, but didn’t say that Zimmerman was offered a patrol car/uniform.

            The car and uniform come with the program. C.O.P.s don’t only patrol areas for suspicious activity. They also make welfare checks on the sick and elderly, and vacation checks on property. They would need to be clearly identified as Citizens on Patrol in order to perform those responsibilities.

            You are correct — GZ didn’t want to operate under restricted rules, including not carrying a weapon, and certainly not with another person riding with him.

          • ladystclaire says:

            @Olivia, the prosecution didn’t hardly object to a damn thing that the defense was doing which everybody knows is the truth. just look at how they allowed Pest to mistreat Rachel. that bull shit was uncalled for and, they knew it but, they permitted it to continue.

            BTW, I have a sister named Olivia.

    • commenting says:

      And if you’ve made some bad desicions in the past like get into a couple fights or if you have a record then you deserved to be killed….because most people in this country are perfect….you are a violent thug who will attack and kill for any reason if you do not have a perfect past

      • roderick2012 says:

        And if you’ve made some bad desicions in the past like get into a couple fights or if you have a record then you deserved to be killed

        What’s worse is that now that O’Mara has a set a precedent in scouring the social media accounts of potential jurors and witnesses I am sure that other defense lawyers will follow in his path.

        That is what worries me about the Jordan Davis case. We already know that the driver of the SUV in which Davis was a passenger was out past his curfew and I am sure that Dunn’s lawyers will use the guilty by association game to label Davis as some type of person who preferred to associate himself with criminals.

        What I don’t understand is why does Florida law allow the defense to use anything and everything to defame a witness unless it’s something directly related to the case.

      • longtimegeek says:

        …especially if you’re dead. Because that’s what good people do, they trample all over dead people’s graves and get their family and friends to do the same. ::sarcasm:: (And, there’s nothing your credible parents, family and friends can do to stop it.)

    • Olivia says:

      “The unwritten oath that you don’t go against the brotherhood.”

      Possibly part of the reason Serino was so happy about lying in court.

      Felt that with each lie he was a step closer to being accepted back into the brotherhood.

      • Malisha says:

        He never really stepped out of the corrupt brotherhood. He told Fogen, “I have to answer questions about why you’re not in jail. I have to do that.” He knew he had signed on as Fogen’s advocate right then and there. I fooled myself thinking he was just doing that to get Fogen to come clean to him.

        • Olivia says:

          I understand. His message was “Give me a good story for me to use to justify our not arresting you for murder.”

  98. Olivia says:

    Prosecution didn’t expose the lying Sanford Police Department. Maybe the DOJ will.

  99. PiranhaMom says:

    @Professor Fred,

    Re your statement: “Bernie de la Rionda also should have confronted Singleton for wearing awards on her uniform that she had not earned.”

    1) Singleton was in uniform her first day of testimony. De la Rionda
    commented on her ribbons and she stated she had served in the Army. I would not expect De la Rionda to be familiar with each police and military award.

    2) Which awards were bogus?

    3) How/when did you find out?


    • fauxmccoy says:


      i wish i could credit the person who posted this originally, but here goes

      SPD does not even bother to create their own awards, they pick up whatever they want at the surplus store and hand them out to officers.

      shocking, eh?

      • Malisha says:

        So let me get this. SPD is certified by the feds as a law enforcement authority and it hands out fakes as “medals” which it admits it bought in a thrift shop? AND it is illegal to wear them when they were not earned? AND there is a justifiable feeling on the part of the real men and women who REALLY earned them that others are not allowed to just pin them on to denote honor not really earned?

        Remember, Fogen wrote a letter of commendation to Singleton for serving at a PARTY that he was also at, and in that letter told then Chief Billy Lee that Singleton had gone “above and beyond” the call of duty (as if HE would know?) for whatever she did at that party. It’s in the conversation the suck-up had with her after her interview of him and before the voice-stress test. And we’re wondering how the case was screwed up? It was screwed up by the police and the trial was making sure not to point that out or get that into the public record. That is why Singleton and Serino lied. But it does not excuse their lies. They need to be thoroughly investigated and heads need to roll. Then she needs to give back those ribbons. She can go down to the real thrift shop and buy some used pink ribbons to wear in her hair. Even liars are allowed to do that.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          malisha — you’ll have no argument from me that SPD royally screwed the initial investigation and as a result contributed to the acquittal.

          as far as singleton’s ribbons — if that was what her department awarded her, i cannot fault her for not including them on her dress uniform. i have plenty of other things which i can find meaningful fault though.

          on a personal note, i have gotten the impression the last several days that you have been attempting to challenge or find fault with my posts. do you mind clearing that up for me?

          • Malisha says:

            I don’t remember doing that, Faux. What posts did I challenge? In fact I don’t remember disagreeing with any of your posts. Point it out to me and if I did, I’ll carefully examine it because you’re one of the people I most often agree with 100%.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            could just be my interpretation and sensitivity that i do not like to admit publcly, malisha. i’ll take you at your word. thanks.

          • Malisha says:

            Well Faux, you’re on my list of the most respected commenters here. Rarely do I actually “answer” a post when I write, and if I do, I try to address the person in my answer. I can’t remember having an actual adversarial response to anyone except a guy named “Dennis” who seemed to be different personalities. I did feel my feathers ruffled when anybody SEEMED (might just be my oversensitive defenses) to say that Trayvon Martin or someone testifying for him might have done or gotten something wrong, but if so, it would only be a result of my feeling jangle-nerved because of my own feelings that victims always get trampled.

            Anyway if we need to make up I’m glad we are doing it and if I danced on YOUR nerves I am certainly sorry. 😀

          • cielo62 says:

            Malisha~ Oh I had some fun with that Dennis character! Let’s hear it for the Illuminati!


          • fauxmccoy says:

            oh yes, that dang illuminati, they’re in on it! the hom-0-secksuals too!! (it was like a bad scooby doo ending, i tells ya!)

          • cielo62 says:

            faux mccoy~ Y’know, I’ve always wondered about that infamous “Gay Agenda.” I must have missed the memo, because I have no idea what it is. Maybe it’s a vow to color coordinate all of America?


          • fauxmccoy says:


            Maybe it’s a vow to color coordinate all of America?

            that and to feng shui all of our corporate environs and public spaces!

          • fauxmccoy says:

            malisha, your first response allayed all concern. i suspect this is a nerve rattling time for any of us. i did want to find out though if i’d done something to upset you in any way because it would never be my intention to do so. then again, it is my firm belief that intentions count for shit and that it is action that is meaningful. i do not even accept ‘but i did not mean to hurt your feelings’ from loved ones.

            we have both spent our time in the trenches as advocates — you for children and me for battered women. we have helped them negotiate the legal process and seen that create even greater despair and further victimization. we understand exactly how the system does not work for the under privedged. i consider you my ally, which why i was concerned enough to ask.

            no hard feelings, honest.

        • Olivia says:

          Serino’s body language gave him away. He was literally squirming in his seat, and SMIRKING.

          His facial contortions were so hideous. It was as though no matter how hard he tried to put on a straight face he couldn’t completely prevent his body from telling what he was really thinking/feeling.

          Notice how he couldn’t keep the corners of his mouth from turning up into a grin (duper’s delight).

        • Mary Davis says:

          @Malisha. “She can go down to the real thrift shop and buy some used pink ribbons to wear in her hair. Even liars are allowed to do that.

          I am ROTFLMBO. I really needed that laugh.

    • J4TMinATL says:

      I first read it at the hole the day she took stand.

  100. degraveegmailcom says:

    There are a lot arguments/debates/written pieces that
    excuse the not guilty verdict and blame the laws or the jury
    But really? What do we know except there was a 2 minute max scuffle of wich the last 40 seconds ended with a gunshot. Trayvon Martin was unarmed and Defendant was armed.
    I MOVED MY HAND, I AIMED AND FIRED.Defendant stated to
    police later that same night.

    To prove the crime of Second Degree Murder, the State must prove the following
    beyond a reasonable doubt:
    Trayvon Martin
    is dead. CHECK!
    The death was caused by the criminal act of
    George Zimmerman CHECK. to kill is a crime right?
    There was an unlawful killing of
    Trayvon Martin
    by an act imminently dangerous
    to another and demonstrating a depraved mind without regard for human life. CHECK
    An “act” incl
    udes a series of related actions arising from and performed pursuant to a
    single design or purpose.
    An act is “imminently dangerous to another and demonstrating a depraved mind” if it is
    an act or series of acts that:
    a person of ordinary judgment would know is reasonably certain to kill or do
    serious bodily injury to another, and CHECK.
    is done from ill will, hatred, spite or an evil intent, UNPROVABLE
    is of such a nature that the act itself indicates an indifference to human life.CHECK. TRAYVONS LIFE TO BE EXACT
    In order to convict
    of Second Degree Murder, it is not necessary for the State to prove
    George Zimmerman
    had an intent to cause death.GOOD. NEXT!

    If you find that
    George Zimmerman
    committed Second Degree Murder and you also find
    beyond a reasonable doubt that during the commission of the crime, he discharged a firearm,
    and in doing so, caused
    great bodily harm to, or the death ofTrayvon Martin
    , you should find
    George Zimmerman
    guilty of Second Degree Murder with
    discharge of a
    firearm causing
    bodily harm
    or death.
    If you find that
    George Zimmerman
    committed Second Degree Murder, and you also
    find beyond a reasonable doubt that during the commission of the crime, he discharged a
    firearm,CHECK 100% NO DOUBT

    you should find
    George Zimmerman
    guilty of Second Degree Murder
    discharge of
    a firearm.YES?
    If you find that
    George Zimmerman
    committed Second Degree Murder and you also find
    beyond a reasonable doubt that during the commission of the crime, he actually possessed a
    firearm, YES?you should
    George Zimmerman
    guilty of Second Degree Murder
    possession of a
    A “firearm” is legally defined as any weapon which will, is designed to, or may readily be
    converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive.
    To “actu
    ally possess” a firearm means that
    George Zimmerman
    carried a firearm on his person; CHECK or
    had a firearm within immediate physical reach with ready access with the intent
    to use the firearm during the commission of the crime.CHECK.

    There done. No need to read the rest everything checked for the first charge.

    • J4TMinATL says:

      But the jury found it justified or lawful to kill under the same instructions.

      • degraveegmailcom says:

        How? I just don’t get it.

        • Olivia says:

          I like the idea of requiring jurors to complete a checklist similar to what you posted.

          It could help them focus their time and attention on the relevant facts, rather than, for instance, the attorney’s dramatics played out in opening and closing statements.

          I suspect the jurors for this trial had decided on Saturday that they wanted to make a decision before the court day was over at 10pm.

          From what I understand, they asked for and received permission to deliberate during dinner, so – yeah, I’m pretty certain they wanted to make a decision on Saturday and not be sequestered for another night.

          Late in the day, and the pressure of time constraints could have led to more biased and impulsive decision making, and weakened resolve to not go along with the more dominant juror(s) wishes.

          I wouldn’t want to make such important decisions that late in the day, simply because after a long day my rational/thinking abilities and resistance to persuasion from others is not as strong.

        • Olivia says:

          Remember, they asked Nelson for clarification on manslaughter, didn’t get an answer, but were told they could submit a more specific question for clarification.

          However, they didn’t submit a followup question to Nelson. Did they figure out the answer to their question themselves, couldn’t figure out how to ask a more specific question, or just convinced themselves they didn’t need/want clarification after all?

          I wonder if in a rush to finish by 10 pm they decided to forget about the questions they had and hurry up and make a decision.

          Hadn’t thought about it until now, but the secrecy of this type of jury is about the same as a grand jury.

          • Xena says:


            I wonder if in a rush to finish by 10 pm they decided to forget about the questions they had and hurry up and make a decision.

            Apparently, the foreperson did not want to submit a more specific question and refused to do so. Juror B37 told Anderson Cooper what happened after the jury was asked for a more specific question. The foreperson took another vote. One juror sat for 30 minutes before casting her vote. There was no further discussion of evidence. They waited that juror out so she would vote not guilty.

          • Malisha says:

            That is not even deliberation. That’s bullying.

        • J4TMinATL says:

          Because of the instructions on justifiable homicide that didn’t include provocation/aggression directions. Re read the instructions Prof posted.

  101. commenting says:

    I would love for Rachel jeantel to call Steve wilkocks or the mauray show, and ask to haave a polygraph test concerning whether she heard Trayvon say get off……why would u sucker punch a person then tell that person to get off….anyways gz’s testimony is all that is needed to know that no punching of any kind that broke his nose took place at the T

    • degraveegmailcom says:

      Polygraphs are not reliable nor admissable as evidence.
      Do you doubt her? After that 7 hours long interrogation?
      She testified,defendant did not.
      I would love for George Zimmerman to call Steve wilkocks or the mauray show, and ask to have a polygraph test.

      • commenting says:

        Hey, lighten up..the verdict of not guilty has already been reached and there is nothing that can be done about it, so I don’t know why you would bring up anything about poolygraph test not being permissable in court……………………I simple suggest it would be a something she could do seeing that she has been on different interviews after the trial

      • BlueJ says:

        I would love to see Zimmerman integrated for 7 hours. That’s enough time for at least a ozen new stories.

  102. LBTG says:

    Just in case you didn’t see this:
    Rush Limbaugh declares victory after Zimmerman verdict
    Ann Coulter tweeted “Hallelujah!” just minutes after Zimmerman was acquitted of second degree murder. Ted Nugent wrote, “The jury got it right, and non-racist America rejoices.”

  103. commenting says:

    Sabrina looks like a tall woman herself…standing next to jayz and Beyonce…jayz don’t look like he is mucher taller than her ir am I being decieved by the picture

  104. commenting says:

    People enough already about Bernie’s lack of objection to the defencequestions, if Bernie had to object to every false statement he would have made a nuisance of himself………….what he could have done was ask better questions, do a better job crross questioning the witnesses and use the reenactment video, and gz’s many recorded statements to disprove every lie that the defence was spoonfeeding the jury………………..spend a little time on the physical altercation that gz described…show that his version of the events made no sense…..he was never sucker punched at the T

  105. Two sides to a story says:

    Sen. John McCain, known to break ranks with fellow GOP lawmakers, urged state legislatures to consider revising ‘Stand Your Ground’ laws in the wake of the George Zimmerman trial.

    Read more:

  106. commenting says:

    Serino and singleton never turned on the prosecution….they were never on the prosecution’s side… all are crazy to believe that they were not going on the stand to defend their decision for refusing to charge gz……do yo all reallybelieve they were going to say gz should have been charged from day 1…do you think they were going to say that they did not believe gz?……………….why was jennar called on the stand in the first place??….Berni stated that she was subject to be recalled when he knew he was done with her..he knew he was done with the worthless questions…………

  107. fauxmccoy says:

    speaking of mixed bags of tricks and the huffpost:

    john mccain praises obama’s speech (remember that mccain does have an adopted black daughter) AND furthermore says that SYG laws are controversial and should be reviewed.

    there are times when i respect this guy, but that was more so in the past. he will condemn his own party on occasion which i have to admire. ultimately, a mixed bad of tricks in my mind though.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      But if he’s courageous enough to come forward, he may bring other Republicans with him.

      There’s no damn reason that the American public should have laxer rules of engagement with firearms than the US military.

      • cielo62 says:

        Two Sides~ Mccain is a political animal. Maybe he sees the writing on the wall, as it were. You CAN’T EVEN BEGIN to think about inticing minorities to the GOP if you don’t offer something. Repealing or retooling SYG would be a good place to start.

        • Two sides to a story says:

          Agree. The Republican party needs to disengage from the Tea Party as well and McCain knows that too.

          • Mojo says:

            The Tea Party will be the death of the GOP. It already killed the GOP as we once knew it.

    • Girlp says:

      Hi Faux, Mcain’s daughter is from India.Still I agree with you also , the current leadership and a strong tea party in AZ keep him from working with the DEM’s.

    • Sophia33 says: