We want justice, not just us

Friday, July 19, 2013

Good morning:

A government cannot long survive if the people whom it governs lose faith in its ability to resolve disputes peacefully and equitably.

The tragedy in Sanford and our experience that Crane-Station and I are recounting in Frog Gravy are but two examples of the failure of our judicial system. Many of you have your own experiences or you know people who have suffered similar misfortune.

Our courts are failing.

The highest court in our land, the United States Supreme Court, has become a disgraceful hall of shame favoring corporations and the rich people who own them over the rights of individuals with decisions like Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission upholding the rights of corporations to make political expenditures under the First Amendment, and Shelby County v. Attorney General Eric Holder, which effectively struck down the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

Meanwhile, our government fights an endless war everywhere against an invisible foe for dominion and control over all of the precious natural resources of the world, including people, to exploit them in service to corporate greed, and it uses this war as an excuse to eliminate all of our liberties.

Look around my friends and tell me what you see.

I see the appearance of liberty and the appearance of justice.

I do not see liberty or justice.

We are truly lost when a psychopath posing as a neighborhood watch captain can strap on a gun, hunt down and slaughter a child in cold blood and the legal system finds him not guilty behind providing the appearance of justice.

That trial was not a real trial.

Real justice is blind and she exists for everyone regardless of race, gender, economic class, political philosophy or religious belief.

You will not find her in a corporation board room.

Pray that she may yet be found in a courtroom somewhere.


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322 Responses to We want justice, not just us

  1. john c. says:

    I enjoyed president Obama’s speech about Trayvon. He is still a hypocrite though since he is a murderer as well. If you saw the pictures of the innocent children massacred by his drone strikes you would hate him as much as Zimmerman. Zimmerman and Obama should be sharing a cell together, but unfortunately evil always trumps good.

    • cielo62 says:

      John c.- we are at war with many evil factions in the world. Drones at least protect our soldiers. I do not hate Obama. Your view of the world is too simplistic.


  2. smokeegyrl says:

    ok folks, I am not understanding the Frog blogs, so I will be leaving the your blog professor it was nice as long as it lasted. I will be more focused on my own blog and my health. It was nice meeting and blogging with most of you. I hope that we do get Justice for Trayvon Martin and it seems that it could be a mistrial since the Sheriffs have now come forward. I don’t know what that means but Moveon.org have filed petitions with the state for Jury Misconduct. Crane, I hope your pipe burn gets better. I will come back to at least tell you what my doctors say if it is good news… if not then you will know my outcome. cest la vie’ (that’s life in french) na wè pita, se yon heureux lavi li. (see you later, have a blessed life! in creole)

  3. towerflower says:


    Sanford PD at it again. Look at the photos of this poor man. Supposedly they were received by a single fall to the ground after being tased.

  4. fauxmccoy says:

    @Brandy — i believe you were looking for info on marches in sacramento, i have found the following information and hope you manage to see this


  5. longtimegeek says:

    One of my biggest problems with this case is all the lying, aka the Jose Baez style defense. Many people aren’t good at spotting liars and lies. (You can read about this on web sites like http://www.ekmaninternational.com/paul-ekman-international-plc-home/lie-to-me.aspx.) With the mountain of lies, one or more key lies can even get past people who are good at spotting lies. So, a prolific liar can create false reasonable doubt through lying and can end up being rewarded for prolific lying. I think this undermines the judicial process and places a heavier than intended burden on the prosecutors and jurors.

    I think attorneys should be upheld to a higher standard. I think it should be easier to impeach witnesses, like John Good, who admitted to telling a big lie. I think it should at least be easier for specific testimony from an admitted or proven liar to be excluded. I think the prosecution should find a way to make it harder for jurors to accept the testimony of a liar over the testimony of multiple witnesses who haven’t lied, since, again, many people can’t tell who is and isn’t lying. For example, maybe the prosecution could make a concerted effort to remind the jury that the testimony from certain witnesses isn’t questioned and the specific testimony from a certain witness is highly suspect.

    GZ pushed TM to the ground and jumped on top of him, causing TM to say “Get off, get off”! About 30 seconds later, TM started yelling and screaming for 40+ continuous seconds, including blood-curdling screaming, because GZ had a gun on him and probably because GZ said things to him like, “I got you. You’re going to die, tonight.” Even though TM was in the backyard of so many homes with their lights on at about 7 pm at night and a time when many different people might be walking their dogs through a well known walk dog area, no one could help him, even if they wanted to. GZ disregarded everyone who stepped or yelled outside their homes, who could have helped TM or GZ. GZ, who had the gun and who hadn’t suffered any life threatening injuries during the first ~30 seconds or even the next 40+ seconds, wasn’t looking for help for himself or TM. He took one fatal shot aimed at TM’s heart. One fatal shot that had both TM’s shirt and sweatshirt pulled down and to the left by half a foot of the shot that went through his heart. TM was either on the bottom, as many witnesses saw at some point, or was getting up and trying to pull away from GZ.

    After GZ took a single fatal shot, he was calm, including his vital signs, and he didn’t do anything at all to help TM, which is yet another indication that his plethora of criminology, neighborhood watch, concealed weapons permit, MMA, etc. training didn’t take hold. GZ’s calm and actions afterwards were not indicative of a person who had been screaming for 40+ seconds, a person who had just been through a traumatic event, or a person had regard for human life. He said, “Just tell her (my wife) I shot someone.” What kind of person is on the receiving end of a statement like this? How was this lost on an all woman jury? What kind of man makes a statement like this to anyone, let alone his wife? Finally, as GZ said in his Hannity interview many months later, after he was finally arrested and charged, he has no regrets, he wouldn’t change anything, and it was God’s plan. Still calm and cold blooded.

    Whatever happened to the days when you tell one big lie and people don’t believe anything you say? Now we have a defendant who tells countless big lies and people are trying to play expert lie detector and pick out a few lies to believe?

    I still don’t understand why racism was left out of the prosecution’s case, especially when the defense introduced it. Jurors were given a one-sided impression, and the prosecution didn’t even attempt to turn racism to their advantage. Jurors who didn’t have racist blinders on weren’t given arguments to use in the deliberation room against racist jurors.

    Here’s an interesting discussion (44 minutes long) about the jury from TYTNetwork:

    • Mojo says:

      @longtimegeek: My introduction to this case was watching FatAss’s reenactment. I’m a semi-pro poker player and have cashed in multiple WSOP tournaments. I think my ability to read tells and liar’s tells is better than most people. I knew he was guilty from the moment I watched the reenactment

      • longtimegeek says:

        Yes! This is a great example of how difficult it can be to spot a bluffer/liar! Thank you! I have to remember this example.

  6. The rat still hiding?

  7. My Forehead Tho says:

    “Trayvon could have been me 35 years ago”
    ~President Obama

  8. My Forehead Tho says:
  9. Wanna says:

    I remain hopeful, this blog and its readers restore my faith in humanity.
    I am reminded of William Wilberforce in the UK. I am told that he introduced a bill in the parliament against slavery for 42 years to be denied and the 43th year the bill passed. He never gave up. You folks from the UK can straighten me out if I’m wrong. The struggle has got to continue for our children and their children. Never give up!

    • Thrace says:

      I’ve said before this murder that a lot of things were going to change in this country once the boomers started dying off. And I’m one of the boomers. There will be a radical change for the better in this country with the younger generations. The gay rights acceptance is a good indicator of what is ahead.

      • Yes, but the biggest bigots are the conservative/libertarian side of Gen-X (the generation between Boomers and the young teenage to tweenty-somethings). These people care about their families and nobody else’s.

  10. Beverly says:

    NPR doing a big piece on the President’s speech. Good coverage and the political Team also very favorable…(Dionne and Brooks)”unifying”, “personal”, “eloquent,”
    “compelling.” I hope alot of people feel that and that we can see some good.

    • Malisha says:

      If the feds do not absolutely and honestly investigate the entire SPD, nail those who have covered-up this crime and perverted the criminal justice department, expose the corruption, punish the perps and clean house in Sanford and Seminole County and the FDLE, then nothing glib Obama can say about it impresses me in the least. WHo cares? DO DAMN SOMETHING with that Department of Justice. You can go all over the world and find Bin Ladin and kill him in Pakistan and fly drones all over Yemen and half the world and take care of business? Yes you can? Then get that damned DOJ to stop being the DOI (Department of INJUSTICE) and get them to do an honest and thorough investigation of the sewer in Seminole County that handed us the mandate:

      ANY armed white guy or Afro-Peruvian can kill his AA kid at will and put a notch on his gun and keep a’killin’.

      STOP THAT AND STOP IT NOW! Otherwise no damn more BLAH BLAH BLAH!

      • sadlyyes says:

        eggszactly,no more pretty word,and lofty speeches

      • chills101 says:

        Malisha why do we have to beg people to do their job. Including the president. Why????????

        • Malisha says:

          chills, not just we have to beg them, but begging them does no good. Remember, “I’m begging you!”?

          It’s the same. If the govt wants to disappear some gross injustice, it will disappear it. It also will spend millions of taxpayer dollars to disappear it in the midst of a big circus act the likes of which cause “ooooohs” and “aaaaaaaaahs” as it proceeds. They use up everybody’s energy running around giving them evidence, preparing charts and graphs, proving things, plugging up holes, providing info to fill in gaps, and in the end they say,

          “THANK YOU for your interest and concern.”

          Some of them even add the incendiary sentence: “Please feel free to come to us with any of your concerns in the future.”

          It is this that makes me think that there are no solutions to the real problems. It is also what makes me think that some people who go off have complex but compelling historical prologues to their rampages. Don’t get me started.

          I have to finish my sign and head down to the demonstration.

          • roderick2012 says:

            Malisha, I completely agree with you.

            If the Feds want to get to the bottom of this they need to start with B37.

            I have no doubt that if the Feds pressed B37 that she would eventually give up the the entire scheme because her lawyer husband understands that the Feds can ruin you very easily.

            I believe that B37 could unravel the entire conspiracy-from Judge Nelson to the prosecution to the jurors.

          • cielo62 says:

            Roderick- do you really think she knows that much? Maybe she’s just a stupid little racist pawn more than willing to vote not guilty and not even be aware that there are major forces beyond whoever the hell told her her part. I’m not being ornery (surprise) but I would LOVE To see her grilled and sweat. But much beyond what was told to her, I don’t think she knows the big players. MOM would certainly know. I would love for the entire force of the DoJ to fall on his ass like hungry tigers at the zoo.

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • roderick2012 says:

            1) Her husband is an attorney in the Sanford/Orlando Seminole County area
            2) Allegedly there is a picture of B37 hugging Mommy Dearest
            3) It’s obvious from her CNN interview that she knows George personally
            4) There’s a rumor that her husband plays golf with Papa Zimmerman who obviously had deep tentacles in the local law enforcement and legal communities so it wouldn’t surprise me that B37 was part of a larger scheme to make sure that George was acquitted

          • cielo62 says:

            roderick~ Wow! I didn’t know any of what you just wrote. Hmmm…. certainly does sound suspicious. But I still question their sense, in shopping a book deal around less than 24 hours after the verdict was read. Maybe they were in the scheme but still quite stupid to the implications. ‘sigh’  So many things we’ll never know for sure.


    • Deborah Moore says:

      Thanks for sharing that, Beverly. NPR has a wide and diverse audience, and I agree with those words.
      I was moved by his speech, but am also anxious, like others, to see action happening. Hope he has a nice influential chat with his Attorney General.
      (And, thanks for your responsive comment to me earlier. I’m waiting for a call back, but will let you know what I learn.)

  11. Truth first then justice.

    We’re the ones that failed. Not us specifically, but the people who knew and understood the truth and common sense and had the format to speak out about it. We let another narrative take place so we can avoid calling what we are seeing what it really is.

    For example:

    We let the media tell us that GZ said the word punk instead of calling them racist for trying to clean something up that was so damn obviously racist.

    We let the media actually argue that GZ got out of his car to look for an address when the audio says that statement is a big obvious lie that only a true bigot, not a dummy, a bigot would fall for.

    We let them tell us that GZ and family isn’t racist when his own mother says she is a white Peruvian when her grandpa is black, his dad called black people the real racists, his brother castigated the entire black race as violent based on what 2 accused teenagers have done, and a cousin who confirms that entire family’s hatred of blacks. Nevermind the fact that GZ called the police exclusively on blacks including a 7 to 9yr old that was in a whole nother apartment complex alleging he’s suspicious.

    We let them tell us that 30yr audio experts are hacks because they say it was NOT GZ. They acknowledge they don’t have a big enough sample to say it’s TM but they know it’s not GZ.

    We let them argue that TM did a U-turn 5 minutes after GZ said he’s running because he knew GZ would be at the “T” 5 minutes later. We didn’t tell them how absurd that argument is.

    We let them argue that TM is the type of kid that would turn around and beat a man to death and then go home and eat his snacks like nothing even happened which would only be believable if that kid is black, and hence a thug.

    Then we’re supposed to believe that GZ didn’t get a toxicology test because they forgot? If I get hurt at work, they wont forget, if I get caught with drugs they wont forget, If I get in a car accident and someone gets hurt, whether it’s my fault or not, they wont forget. This man shot a child and was in custody for 5hrs and we’re supposed to believe they forgot? They didn’t forget, they covered for him because if he was clean they would’ve tested him and put it all over the news. He was dirty.

    Then we hear a teenager screaming for help on tape, then murdered, then the worst of it all he’s slandered along with his entire family. Something that didn’t even happen to Scott Peterson(I now question his guilt) and Joran Vandersloot. I recognize that it’s necessary to slander TM in order to avoid the truth

    But the worst is that the champions of justice worked hand over fist to hide the blatant murder of a child. And we never made that argument. So this is another case of where Stockholm Syndrome by blacks prevented blacks from getting justice.

    • Mojo says:

      Spot on!

    • Cercando Luce says:

      I agree right up to the last sentence. I think well-intentioned people of different skin tones were overwhelmed by the waves of hate, especially on public Internet forums. I mentioned the blood-trails in the photos dripping the wrong way for defendant’s story to be true, and golly did a hundred whackos let me have it! I can well imagine normal people deciding not to comment.

      The coverup makes me wonder if defendant is Whitey Bulger or something. So much energy expended to cover up, to disrupt trial, hearings, proceedings– remember when defendant’s professor could not talk via Skype because of disruptive phone calls? And how the policeman GZ attacked years ago was unavailable to come to court? People blatantly breaking the rules of the court with impunity, and then the judge deletes an essential part of instructions. So glad Don West said “F*** her!” right there in the courtroom.

  12. commenting says:

    Mom said that Trayvon had 4 minutes ti go home……..this is the response I was expecting, whixh the state did not give==»how was trayvon supposed to know that gz would get out of his truck to follow him on foot??……………….how do wee know what path tayvon took??……what if he ran between here, or here came back in through here when he thought that gz was gone only to get a surprise that the man had actually left his car to follow him on foot…..I know the verdict was already reached and nothing can change it, but I keep shaking my head at the poor job of the prosecution………people go to yahoo and see the thusand of racist comments and the hundreds of thumbs up these racist comments recieve….people are evil…the heart of man is wicked……I always feared that one or some of these people would end up on the jury

    • Ohaha thinks that Martin was a slave under the master direction
      hurrying to go home.
      POS lawyer is confuse.

    • Malisha says:

      Then Trayvon should have been given proper notice: YOU HAVE FOUR MINUTES TO GO HOME. If you do not go home within four (4) minutes you will be killed.

      THEN it’s OK to say that killing him was excusable because he did not use his four minutes to go home.

  13. J4TMinATL says:

    Professor. I put a summary together of Juror E6 that the state did try to use preemp on. She was 9th in line, seated 5th.

    E-6 Arrested in Brevard County in 1999. When Bernie asked if anyone has had a dispute with another person, she said she was involved in a domestic violence case. Told O’Mara that she experienced “losing memory” but it came back to her and admitted she couldn’t compare it to this situation. She also has been involved in a custody trial and was treated fairly. She says a family friend works as a detective. Married to engineer. Unemployed. Did work in financial services for 9 months. Goes to church. Volunteers at children’s school. Has received summons for jury duty but has not served. When O’Mara questioned her she said first hand witnesses and evidence would have to be presented to overcome reasonable doubt. She knows the difference between standards of a civil case and “this” case. She said the repercussions in a criminal case are different. She asked O’Mara if the law provides clarification on what is reasonable. (sidebar) Then she asked again. She was told by JN that it is the juries job to discuss it. Her only concern would be if she observed somemone being irresponsible with a gun. She asked Bernie a question about circumstantial evidence.

    She was questioned about circling 4 names from a list that she recognized. She has gotten a referral to one witness, but has not had contact with person. The last name she circled, she said would have no impact on her. Earlier, she raised hand when group was asked one by one if they knew an attorney, she says she knows a woman, but isn’t in contact with an attorney.

    State’s premp denied. Bernie argued hardship (that she would be concerned about her children and she may be focused on the penalty aspect)

    • concernedczen says:

      My guess is that she was one of the original 2 that wanted to convict for manslaughter.

      The prosecution’s jury selection efforts were horrible.

  14. bettykath says:

    Witness 3 is the one who saw the person in the white shirt on top. Why didn’t she testify? Well, we know. She didn’t fit with the story. I still wonder who she saw.

  15. bettykath says:

    Cheryl Brown is the mother of the 13 year old who saw a man on the ground. She indicates that Serino saw it as a phony self-defense case.


    • Malisha says:

      Exactly why she should have been called as a witness. But she couldn’t, because that would BUST the SPD, who are really the guilty parties in the long run. They enabled, encouraged and ultimately blessed this act of murder. It’s really on them. Serino, most of all. Even more than Lee, it’s on Serino.

      • commenting says:

        But did you see serino’s body language on the stand, the guy’s shoulders were hunched over, he looked as guilty as sin, a person could not look more guilty than that, IT’s like he was trying to say I did somthing wrong by not charging gz, and the way he ..aswere the questions he was being asked…..the jurors were inteligent enough to

        • commenting says:

          The way he responded to the questions also revealed his guilt, the jurors were intelligent enough to see that, it was obvoius as can be…or maybe he simply felt sorry for Trayvon’s parents sitting there, but at least it appears like he has a conscience unlike singleton who did her best to deffend gz..saying that it is expected that you change your story after a traumatic event..yeah right..gz’s changes were too huge

        • Malisha says:

          BDLR helped Serino avoid his responsibility as a LEO and his responsibility as an American. BDLR is more to blame than that chickensh*t cop, for that part of the charade.

          They all knew the verdict would be NG and they all knew BDLR and Nelson were going to throw the case BEFORE Baez gave his quote to the press that the prosecution did not have a case. Baez would not have taken a chance in saying that if he did not already know the fix was in. No way in the world he would have done that unless he knew.

      • Serino turned in 4 affidavits and they were all rejected. I’m sure by the time he turned in the 3rd one, He and Norm Wolfinger were butting heads really hard. After that he probably was the one that turned over the video of an unharmed GZ to the media and still fully intended to see GZ prosecuted even during his interview with Cheryl Brown’s son. I bet that’s when they put him in his place really hard including his demotion and now he’s just trying to get back where he was.

        • Cercando Luce says:

          I appreciated Serino’s volunteering, “Or a pathological liar” o the stand.

          His dilemma was covered in an earlier post– he has his own category up on the right hand side of this page.

        • bettykath says:

          He had more to tell but Bernie wouldn’t ask him!

          • Cercando Luce says:

            I saw that! THis feeds the notion that Corey/BdlR etc were in on the fix.

          • Malisha says:

            Exactly. And Baez had worked out the deal with BDLR NOT TO ASK those questions. Baez was hired for his purpose and he served it. He did not actually work for Serino; he worked for the whole SPD. In retrospect it becomes clear. At the time, I couldn’t figure out why he was saying publicly that the prosecution had no case. Then it fell into place; he knew there would be an acquittal so he wanted to get ahead of it and be the big guru. It’s money in his pocket.

      • Mary says:

        i really want to know what happened to serino. he was the guy who pursued it in the first place, thinking something was fishy. i hope this is something the doj looks into. (a girl can dream!)

  16. Jun says:

    I sometimes feel America has to copy Canadians in some aspects

    Canada has self defense laws and we have guns but our rate of violence and gun violence is way lower than the US

    I think the states is opening up a can of worms when people can shoot with no worries, as long as you can show you were scared

    State prosecutors gotta do a better job too because with the exception of Bernie’s closing at trial, I was not impressed and they had the evidence

    No argument about trajectory, ballistics, forensics, nothing

    When Marissa Alexander was taken to court, they argued all of the above

    now in Florida, it’s legal to follow people in the dark of the night with a 9mm, and the person being stalked is not allowed to fear for their life or stand their ground

    now anyone can stalk any female and kid, and all they have to say to the state authorities is “I was suspicious because of break ins”

    At least the Martins should win a civil suit and that is the end of that

    I’d also recommend they move out of Florida because they have had way too many travesties in their justice system

    • KateW says:

      I have a mixed bag of feelings about the prosecution. They were able to convince 3 out of the 6 women for a guilty verdict. Unfortunately, the influence of those other 3 was more over powering, well because of a host of issues that have already been stated. They could have made better arguments and really hammered. I didn’t like that they sat idle more than a few times, it was if they werent there.

      The judge in this case also made missteps and seemed to loose control of the court at times.

      The jury….well that has simply become a punchline.

      The tragedy in all of this is that an unarmed child is still dead and there was no justice for him.

      • Woow! says:

        Prosecutor could have had the entire confrontation on video and eye witness accounts and those 3 jurors still would have found CAC not guilty.

        It is what is its. Let us hope the DOJ do what the state could not.

  17. MDH says:

    IMO, whites who are racist an those who enable them by being silent are equally culpable.

  18. KateW says:

    I don’t understand how Obama can say this verdict needs to be respected. This is one of the most egregious cases of injustice in this country’s history. A child, an African American child, cannot walk home without being accosted and killed by some profiling racist. This is a travesty. This isn’t something that should just be swept under the rug and “reflected” on. A child is dead through no fault of his own, his killer got off with the help a group of women that did not do their due diligence and basically pushed aside the evidence and one comes out giving the perception she is a racist. Are we supposed to wait until the next child is hunted down and killed. Perhaps he didn’t mean it in such a way and I acknowledge he addressed the issue, but something needs to be done. What has happened here is simply unacceptable.

    • truthseeker says:

      IMO, that is his way of saying the DOJ will not prosecute for hate crime…

      • cielo62 says:

        Truth seeker/ several news pundits said the same but we’ve learned how full of shit those pundits are, so let’s just wait.


    • Endless Summer says:

      Kate, I agree with you. I have no respect for a verdict that was rendered by what appears to me to be an illegal juror. In fact, I believe we have a moral duty to disavow the verdict. Respecting the verdict means that we believe the system operated the way it was supposed to, and I absolutely do not believe that it did. I, too, say that the outcome is simply unacceptable.

      I fear that POTUS words today, while eloquent, were meant to tamp down expectations of the DOJ bringing federal charges.

      I have contacted all of my state lawmakers asking them to 1) support a repeal of SYG, 2) Urge the DOJ to do a thorough and unbiased investigation, including the actions of the SPD, 3) Urge the DOJ to investigate Juror B 37, whose public statements indicate that she committed perjury during Voir Dire, and whose pursuit of a book deal within mere hours of the verdict show that she had a profit motive for being on the jury.

      I am hoping to attend the rally in Tallahassee tomorrow if I don’t have to work. I don’t know what else to do.

    • Woow! says:

      Politics …. he is going to stay at a distance on this and anything pertaining to race.

      • concernedczen says:

        Exactly Kate. It would be better if he said nothing IMO.

        I guess we can be happy that he didn’t invite Zimmerman to the W-house for a “beer summit”

        • concernedczen says:

          Obama also lowered the expectations that the DOJ is going to do anything.

          That is completely unacceptable.

          • Malisha says:

            The first thing that anybody does in a negotiation is lower the adversary’s expectations. Obama has already sat down with DOJ and agreed there will be only a cosmetic “investigation,” if that. But we do not need to accept that.

        • chills101 says:

          Dont count it out……

      • bettykath says:

        I just listened to Obama’s speech. He is the first President to be able to say “I know what Black men in this country go through.” I repeat: He said, “I know what Black men in the country go through.” And he is the only president who could say this.

        “I have been followed in department stores” “I have heard the click of door locks when I cross the street.” “I have seen white women nervously clutch their purses in the elevator until they can get off.” This is an important part of the dialog.

        Eric Holder talked about being stopped by police – when he was a federal prosecutor.

        This kind of dialog would not have happened if fogen had been found guilty. The President mentioned Trayvon and his family. His parents were characterized as having grace and dignity. At no point did he mention fogen!

        Bobby Kennedy thought he understood. He was proud of what he and his brother had done to advance civil rights. After JFK was assinated, he had a sit down with a number of AA folks. The only member of that group I remember for sure is Harry Belafonte. It probably included Ruby Dee, Ossie Davis, Lena Horne. Their take on it was yes, you’ve done a lot but you really still don’t understand. They gave him an education on what it was like to be Black in America. Bobby went on a tour of the South, of the poor Black South. When he ran against Johnson, just before he was assassinated, he understood.

        from an NPR interview in 2006:

        Mr. HARRY BELAFONTE (Musician, Actor): Well, when we first got word that of Bobby Kennedy had been appointed as attorney general for the United States of America, many of us saw that as an unfortunately dark choice. Bobby Kennedy did not come with a reputation that made us feel confident. He was very much a part of the House Un-American Activities Committee. They interrogated hundreds of remarkable American men and women – many of them who did not deserve to be, were demonized. And their lives were crushed, and careers were broken, and people became even suicidal. So it was not a very pleasant time.

        And when he became attorney general, with his record of anti-liberalism, with his class interests and his class distinction, and coming from Massachusetts and having had no real history or background with peoples of color. It was a difficult moment for us.

        Dr. King, upon listening to all of us on how we criticized Bobby, said in his concluding remarks, GO OUT AND FIND HIS MORAL CENTER AND WILL HIM TO OUR CAUSE. [emphasis added] And I think that that rather daunting suggestion, challenged us, and we went out and did exactly that. We reached out to him and we brought him into our world, and we gave him opportunity to look at what was happening to the poor white children who were dying of malnutrition, and white miners – who were quite poor – dying of black lung disease. Through these environments and having to encounter these experiences had a huge impact on Bobby.

        And then coming into the black community, into the sharecropping sectors of Alabama and Mississippi. And I think by the time the end of his life came, everybody agreed that Bobby Kennedy was perhaps the second largest force in the midst of our struggle. The first being Dr. King himself. And then when Bobby decided to run for the presidency – having served some time as a senator, after having served as the attorney general – he came to the table with a lot of background, a lot of knowledge, and a lot of service. And we saw in him an opportunity to bring a leadership quality to America that had not experienced, certainly not since Franklin Delano Roosevelt, and certainly not since Abraham Lincoln.

    • Jasmine says:

      As an American, I understand your frustration but as a Black woman, I can also understand his hesitance. If he says anything he will be race-baiting, if he says nothing he is ignoring the situation of Black people. Either which way someone will be angry with him. For me, I feel like this is his last term so go all out with it. Say what he wants and do as he pleases but then he will be accused of being a dictator. He really can’t win for losing in this situation. I would rather he say that the verdict was wrong and I would rather he does something. But we must all remember that he cannot do everything. Every time I get angry about what he isn’t doing I have to remind myself of this. Bush did a lot and went over a lot of peoples heads and it wasn’t right. Obama cannot do the same unfortunately for us.

      • Thrace says:

        Terri Schiavo. Both Bush boys and the GOP stuck their noses in that unfortunate circumstance, including passing a law and Pres Bush flying in from TX to sign it. He also made public remarks. The right wing develops amnesia when it comes to how they interfer with state laws and hot topics.

      • chills101 says:

        Jasmine we can respect things but never have to accept them. He should do whats right….

    • Obama is the president he can not create chaos telling citizens to disrespect the verdict and taking the law into theirs hands, but behind the curtain he is pushing for justice.

      The murderer rat(fogen) is going down.,

  19. smokeegyrl says:

    I have been trying to get everyone to understand that all whites are not racists. Man I wish there was another terminology for those who are racists and wished there was a way to separate racists from these so call governmental color labels. Our society is so dang brainwashed. Ones hatred of skin color is a behavioral issue! I’m so sick of all of this…

    • bettykath says:

      How about white privilege? Not all whites assume white privilege, but many do. I know some. They swear they are not racists but then go on about “those people”. Calling them racists puts up defensive barriers that can’t be breached. Talking to them white privilege, but not necessarily calling it that, might make some of them think.

    • Woow! says:

      You are correct all whites are not racist but personally if I say white people a lot but it is never my intention to lump the good with the bad.

      • believeinkarma says:

        Why can’t we call it what it is? Racial hate! Racism! Racists!

        • bettykath says:

          It’s a question of if you want to name call and feel better for having done so. Or do you want to change hearts and minds? for the latter, you have to be heard. Name calling will just shut you out. Why do you think corporations pay ad companies so much money? It’s to frame the message in terms that their audience will hear. We need to do the same.

          • Malisha says:

            Just thinking of this — that BDLR did not call a single rebuttal witness. It’s malpractice. He represents the People of the State of Florida and he committed malpractice.

        • aussie says:

          Being racist does not imply HATE at all. It is quite possible — and quite common — to believe some other group is inferior to you in every way, and NOT hate them, indeed even feel sorry for them.

          The racism is the bit about “believing to be inferior” based on their race/skin colour.

          Hate is an optional extra and is often the result of FEAR. The fear can be from the “inferiority” belief including thuggery/criminality. Or it can be economic fear — a fear that you will lose something if they try to climb out of that inferior position.

          Many racists do not even openly believe the “other” is inferior. They just grew up in a world where the “other” was in an inferior position (because of being kept down but they’d not see that) and that’s how the world is — and not see their attitude having anything to do with making or keeping the world like that.

          To accuse such people of hate is asking for them to clam up and never consider their position. They need education, not hostility.

        • Malisha says:

          I don’t think there is anything wrong with using those words when they are (a) accurate and (b) important and (c) to be dealt with and we CANNOT deal with them when we follow the racists’ own rules about not saying them.

          Freedom of expression demands that we say them, when they are real. AND the “unwritten laws” that they are the “hate that cannot say its name” will always work AGAINST us.

          You have to name the monster, identify the monster, before you can effectively deal with it.

    • chills101 says:

      Smokeegryl no disrepect but it is what it is. When i say white folks i mean the privilged. Im pretty sure thats what others mean to. I love who ever means well. Plus i know where im living. Lets fight that battle after we cross the street.

  20. Woow! says:

    So now white people in Florida think that it is ok for a white man to walk up to any black man or child and tell them what to do and it is perfectly ok and if the black man/child tell him to go phuck himself, that black person is a rude thug and deserves to be shot. GTFOH

    sorry ranting over comments from folks talking about Michael Dunn

    • chills101 says:

      Its the American Way…. Reverse that to blacks killing whites that deprive us of the right to live and they would SREAM YOUR FUCKING CRAZY and beg the gov’t to do something. But we’re crazy smh… We have to make the playing field level. Since we cant go up and meet them. We have to bring them down to see us eye to eye.

    • Malisha says:

      It’s about the life interest.

    • Jun says:

      Although Fogen claimed to be white for his whole life except in this incident, he’s actually half white and half peruvian

      The state’s irresponsibility is in their law they enacted

      The only racist aspect is the jury and Fogen’s belief that all blacks are a threat and Fogen used reasonable doubt to frame Trayvon


      As you can see, white, black, and hispanic people have skated utilizing this law because all you have to do is claim to be scared, that’s it, and convince the judge you were scared

      Tony Hayward, a black man, shot and killed a teenage boy and he is a newspaper delivery man. He told the police and court he got scared because he though the person was about to pull a gun on him, so he shot first. He was acquitted and the boy he shot was unarmed.

      Now the law has gone a step further and you can stalk people just because you are suspicious…

      Considering how the self defense law is worded, they should have charged aggravated stalking and then went with negligent manslaughter and they would have won

      • Kimmi says:

        I don’t think I would bet the farm on that Jun

        • Jun says:

          Yes but the facts were too easy and the state kind of sucked in trial

          1) Fogen himself admitted he saw Trayvon and targeted him, and followed him in his car. Obviously he had intent to stalk Trayvon because he was far away from Target.

          2) He got out of his car and went after Trayvon as he ran from the clubhouse to the back entrance.

          3) GZ had a gun, flashlights, and a car. He’s a complete stranger to everyone. He’s an obvious credible threat to Trayvon.

          Aggravated stalking would be easy to prove.

          Once that is finished, charge murder 2 or manslaughter.

          Fogen was committing aggravated stalking when he killed Trayvon, and according to the SYG law, it negates your self defense claim.

          As for the audio experts, the state should have fought the judges decision.

          IMO they did not fight hard enough

          There were so much opportunities to object during trial and motion for impartial jurors

          It’s too little too late anyways

          Now the only way to get GZ is civil court and if the feds can convince a judge and jury that Fogen violated Trayvon’s civil rights and they can use the stalking and the killing as part of their case

      • Kimmi says:

        Maybe somewhere else, but in Sanford Floriduh?

  21. Woow! says:

    Ok people the crazies have jumped on Michael Dunn’s bandwagon ….

    “James Parsley Jr.
    I hope they let him off. You have NO RIGHT to force your vile crap music on everyone else in a public setting. Had they just turned their crap down, there would have been no problem, but true to the worthless violent culture common today, these little thugs instead, turned the music back up and started running their mouths. Everyone here saying he should have just left? WHY? This is what gives these little punks their egos. People just walk away when they are threatened or disrespected by these punks. Good on him for shutting them up. You pull into a public place, turn your crap down. Just cause you like vile music about killing people, smaking b! tches, and smoking dope, doesn’t mean you should be able to force ME or my children to listen to it while we are at the pump or in the store. There is no doubt in my mind that the punks hurled insults and threats at the man, and that alone is worthy of opening up on their worthless a$$e$. Maybe next time, the others that were in the SUV will think twice before trying to be big shots and will learn to respect others when they are in a public place.”

    Ladies and gentlemen, this is the reason is a perfect example of ignorant people in america.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      i ran across that comment as well. of course it is vile and hateful, but you know what? it indicates that in the shallow gene pool of zimmerman apologists, that they are moving on to a new ‘hero’. the pathetic group of racists and self defense fantasizers cannot continue to support both zimmerman and dunn financially, they will be forced to choose. as long as SYG is allowed to stand and this deplorable situation continues, yesterday’s ‘heroes’ will be discarded for the hero du jour. the fact that such hero worship exists is sick, but the source is small and will continue to decline.

      how many of zimmerman’s supporters will even care if he misses a meal in a year? that number will by necessity decrease and rapidly.

      the number of those of us who continue to seek justice however cannot.

  22. I have found the paradox, that if you love until it hurts, there can be no more hurt, only more love.
    -Mother Teresa

    • cielo62 says:

      Crane~ Don’t get me started on Theresa.


      • Malisha says:

        Cielo, I have to giggle a little because you posted it before I did.

        BTW the reason I think gay rights progressed while other civil rights lost ground was that for several decades, the finance and the real political force behind the movement came from gay white men who were in the the closet and therefore were immune to attack and HAD MONEY.

        The rest of us working for the rest of civil rights can’t go “undercover” for a few decades to get the thing together and succeed the same way.

        I know this because in my corner of advocacy and activism (from 1980 – 2005 or so), I worked with the gay rights folks several times in joint actions because they saw my stuff and wanted to link up (certain organizations yes, others no). In all our joint actions, there were people who were visible and were on the street and were interviewed and doing photo ops, and there were the others. The “OTHERS” were white, male and rich.

        • cielo62 says:

          Malisha~ I know you speak the truth on that observation. TINKs is what we called them (two incomes no kids)= plenty of extra money.


  23. chills101 says:

    Why are people hollering bout SYG or changing laws, when this had nothing to do with laws. No law allowed this clown to walk it was SPD and its culture. It’s the blacks and poor people have no rights in America. Its the who you know. Its the denial of the privilege people. Its the American Way. Its the fear they try an install in us. What ever happen to common sense? We have to wake up and stand up for every human being in this world. We cant wait till it hit home for us to want to fight for justice and equality. We have to kill the head and the body going to fall. Attack corporate America and there going to run for the hills. They make us or at least try to make us believe every thing is about money. Money is the root to all evil people. We have to make big changes in the way we live. Im just lost right now.

    • believeinkarma says:

      It is all that and more. And it Isn’t just blacks & poor. It is now a lot more. It is LGBT, women, immigration, unemployment, Black, Brown, corporate greed, voting rights, nra and health care.

      We need to fight these issues together. Protests are a mix of races. This is different than before. Racists maybe screaming but I hope it is their last stand.

    • pat deadder says:

      chills101 I’m with you to me this is not about SYG it’s about a murderer getting off for killing a black child and I am not ready to look at the big picture yet.Seems to me if the DOJ by the Grace of God does something about this one injustice this would be the first small step towards the next battle.

      • chills101 says:

        I got my fingers cross. Im losing hope doe. On the justice system not on Trayvon getting justice.

  24. Mojo says:

    This is something I posted on my Facebook page yesterday. I wonder how many “friends” will de-friend me after reading this.

    The opinion I’m about ready to express will be unpopular and a complete 180 of what many of my friends think. Many may tend more towards my thought. Wherever you lie on the scale, it’s a polarizing and emotional topic. Trayvon Martin.

    I’ve had 5 days to ponder and fester about the George Zimmerman verdict and can’t keep quiet any longer.

    I was drawn to this story from the beginning. I was amazed that someone could follow, pursue, and kill a kid, claim self-defense, and just walk away with no accountability.

    The amount of hatred and racism I’ve witnessed from the Zimmerman camp is astoundingly ugly, ignorant, and heartless. All of us in America, whether we want to admit or recognize it, have been conditioned – whether through our families, our cultures, or society in general – with various racial prejudices. But what the Zimmerman supporters are spewing forth is just pathetic and disgusting.

    The verdict says that in Florida it is legal to follow a minor in your car, causing that minor fear and concern, and then get out of your car and chase him when he runs away from your “creepy ass.” You can be the cause of the confrontation, but when you start getting your ass kicked in a fight that you caused, you get to take out your gun, aim, and put a bullet through the heart of a 17 year old kid. It doesn’t matter if you provoked the situation. It’s only matters that you feared for your life at that moment. For some reason, the person without the gun doesn’t get the same right to self defense.

    Actually, it makes it that a black man (or anyone for that matter that is unilaterally judged out of place or “suspicious) can’t walk down the street without the fear that another overzealous and self-righteous idiot like George Zimmerman, emboldened by a gun that overcompensates for his shortcomings, decides to pass judgment and sentence.

    George Zimmerman is a loser. He’s been a loser his entire adult life. He’s a coward and a pussy. And he needs a gun as validation of his self worth. He’s a sociopath. And he’s gotten away with murder.

    The sad part is that a normal 17 year old kid will never get to experience life. He died not knowing who George Zimmerman was or why he was following him or killed him. He’s been trashed a thug, drug addict, and all the negative stereotypes that get attached to young black males. His parents – who have shown amazing grace and calm – have been trashed as well.

    Hopefully, some good comes out of this tragedy. This isn’t the fucking wild west anymore where we should all be carrying guns and shooting people at the slightest provocation.

    Enough ranting for now. RIP Trayvon Martin

    • cielo62 says:

      Mojo~ I agree with your entire post. Every single bit. I was so disillusioned, thinking we had made such strides~! Maybe in Gay Rights, but not racially. This verdict was a stab in my very heart.


    • MDH says:

      A big thumbs up from me 🙂

    • Janice says:

      I am with you, Mojo. One hundred percent!

    • Malisha says:

      Thank you Mojo.
      Beautiful rant.
      Beautifully conceived and flawlessly delivered.

      • Mojo says:

        Unfortunately, it is just a rant and it will never bring Trayvon back, it will never put George Zimmerman in prison, and it will never ease the pain of Tracy and Sybrina.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      @mojo — should anyone ‘de-friend’ you for such a comment, they are not worthy of your presence.

    • Mojo says:

      What really needs to be noted is that the adult, George Zimmerman, by his own admission, followed Trayvon, the 17 year old minor, in his truck as Trayvon was walking down the street. Following a minor like this is a crime in and of itself in most states. It’s a child molester’s M.O. and is usually referred to as “annoying a minor”

      • believeinkarma says:

        Where I live in California, if a Hispanic male is wearing red and following you, he is a gang member & probably has a weapon.

        Most young males of all races here know what colors not to wear.

        • Nef05 says:

          It’s been like that for a long time, too. I visited my big sis, when she lived in Simi Valley, the summer after the “Showtime” Lakers/Pistons had their first NBA finals (’88). One day, I went with my bro-in-law’s twin to his band’s rehearsal down in South Central. I had on my Pistons jersey (blue/red).

          I walked to the store with some girls hanging out at rehearsal, and walking back – some guys pulled over and asked the girls “What’s up witcha girl?”. One of the girls said, “Leave her alone. She’s just visiting from Detroit. She don’t know no better”. To which he replied “Well, you betta get ‘er right den!”.

          Me, being all stupid, asked her “What is he talking about?” I seriously thought he was talking about the whole Pistons/Lakers thing since he was a guy and I had on a jersey. She told me he was “checking my colors”, which of course she had to explain.

          Scared me senseless, and on my future visits to my sister, I made sure I was never down in South Central again. Which was a shame, ’cause I had a great time, with great people, great music and great food.

          Oh yeah – that was in ’88 – the same year the movie “Colors” came out, and NWA’s “Straight outta Compton” CD with the ubiquitous “Fuck tha Police” single, was released. Since this kind of thing happened in ’88, I’m going to guess that kids born during that decade and later have literally grown up with these rules in place. They probably literally learn these street laws before they learn their ABCs.

          ABCs ,mean reading and writing. Colors can mean life or death. As a mother I know which one I would teach my kids first.

        • cielo62 says:

          believeinkarma~ But what if I were visiting? I like to wear red shirts; it’s my alma mater’s color (red and black, Univ of Maryland). Do I deserve to get killed because I don’t know the local gang symbols? One cannot make assumptions about anything.


      • Jasmine says:

        I think that is what I don’t understand. So many people, children and adults alike, are kidnapped, raped, and killed but people want to say ‘oh it’s okay for someone to follow another person’. I don’t know where they get this idiotic reasoning from. I feel like what they mean to say is that ‘certain people can follow certain others’ and we all know what that means. Blacks have to answer questions of anyone who asks them. I thought that we moved on from that but nope the case brought it right back and it just sickens me.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      ” It doesn’t matter if you provoked the situation. It’s only matters that you feared for your life at that moment.”

      Actually, you just have to SAY that you feared for your life. That’s all.

    • pat deadder says:

      Mojo I agree with everything you have said except when you said when you start getting tor ass kicked in a fight I will never believe fogen was getting his ass kicked in.He had taken mma he knew wrist lock holds Trayvon was screaming in pain as well as fear.

  25. fauxmccoy says:

    i stayed up most of the night reading discovery dump for state of florida vs. michael dunn. 144 pages — http://www.news4jax.com/blob/view/-/19561384/data/3/-/mlr4iiz/-/Michael-Dunn-discovery-materials.pdf

    while there are similarities between the cases (victims both black teens, overweight, stupid shooters who did not have the sense to call a lawyer before consenting to a police interview) there is a striking difference.

    the quality of the investigation is like it came from a ‘real’ police department; crime scenes really were preserved, vehicles really were impounded, neighborhoods really were canvassed thoroughly, a prompt arrest was made, and much more.

    mind you, sitting around and reading discovery materials for murder cases is a relatively new hobby for me, but this demonstrates clearly the piss poor effort that SPD and wolfinger’s office put into their ‘investigation’. i figure we can pretty much guess the reason why.

    i am somewhat confused over the charge of M1 (premeditation – although i realize this period can be brief) and 3 counts of attempted murder. i have never really bought the ‘overcharged’ argument, but i am beginning to wonder about corey’s office on this front. this is not to say that i think she overcharged zimmerman with M2, i could see that case plain as day. it is fair to note that there was a large contingent who saw it as classic manslaughter though.

    at any rate, moving forward with my jaded eyes wide open. maintaining an attitude of optimistic cynicism is tricky work.

    • Nef05 says:

      Thank you, Faux. I had been looking for this for this for a while.

    • crazy1946 says:

      Yesterday after I posted that link, I went back and listened to Dunn’s statement again, and my mind registered that if the same jury instruction are given to the jury in his case he will be acquitted. He over and over again said he felt his life was in danger! I feel he knew the law as it applied to stand your ground and used the words he felt would keep him out of prison for this crime…… The stand your ground law has got to be repealed or children will continue to be murdered freely by people like this….

      • fauxmccoy says:

        i would have to agree. the evidence is so much more clear in this case that if an acquittal is reached, my 48 year old white disabled body will be inclined to riot.

        i don’t think that dunn has any real hope at a SYG hearing before a judge. even though this is a M1 case, the death penalty is not being sought, so once again, florida can install a 6 member jury void of diversity.

        trayvon martin will forever be an icon for social change and justice. i would argue, however, that this verdict is even more critical.

        • crazy1946 says:

          I can only say this, after all the evidence that we looked at in the trial of the Fogdoit, and a “jury” of “his” peers found him not guilty, that I’m not expecting a guilty verdict no matter how much evidence is presented. Until the SYG law is repealed a young black man is fair game in the Banana Republic of Florida!

          • believeinkarma says:

            Any person they don’t like. It is a shoot to kill law. Attorney Crump said they told doj to look for civil right violations and if they see no bias in Trayvon’s case then there is now a law that says you can kill any brown or black boy.

    • Malisha says:

      When you GO to your car to get your gun, you’re premeditating murder. Florida has put people to death for “premeditation” amounting to five seconds’ intent to kill.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        malisha — dunn did not go to his car to get his gun. his first 4-5 shots came from inside his car, in the driver’s seat, after he got his gun from the glove box.

        only after the SUV davis was in started to move away did dunn get out of his vehicle and continue to shoot.

        • aussie says:

          Giving chase is NOT self-defence.

          SYG says you don’t have to retreat. It does not say it is forbidden to retreat.

          If he made it back to his car without being shot in the back, he should have driven off.

          But what happened? the poor young guys, being shot at,. sensibly decided to get the heck out of there, and did drive off. Only to be accused by the pro-Dunn mob of driving off to “dump their gun”. If they had one, why didn’t they shoot back?

          • fauxmccoy says:

            aussie says

            Giving chase is NOT self-defence.

            SYG says you don’t have to retreat. It does not say it is forbidden to retreat.

            If he made it back to his car without being shot in the back, he should have driven off.

            i’m having a hard time matching your statement with the facts of the case. dunn never exited his vehicle until he started shooting, when he started shooting, the teens reasonably escaped. i don’t understand where ‘giving chase’ enters into this particular equation unless you are referring to dunn exiting his vehicle while shooting at the escaping teens. there would have been no opportunity for him to be shot in the back (even if the teens had a gun) because he remained in his car until the teens started to drive away, at which point, dunn exited his vehicle to shoot some more.

            now, i will agree that there is no reasonable self defense claim here for him. i’ll further agree that those who say the teens drove off to ‘dump the shotgun’ are crazy ass crackers. that is the best ‘thinking’ they can offer.

            my concerns are the jury (for obvious reasons) and i am wondering where the premeditation comes in for the M1 charge.

  26. Malisha says:

    Strange that Fogen said he wanted to be a prosecutor.

    He believes that his killing Trayvon Martin was the fault of prosecutors not doing their duties. Had they properly gotten Trayvon Martin into a maximum security prison by his 17th birthday as they should have, he wouldn’t have had to kill him on 2/26/2012!

    There’s a dog over on the Turley blog (who lives in a gated community in Florida) who would agree with that statement 100%. And he’s more common than anybody here imagines.

    • KateW says:

      Malisha he is mocking Trayvon’s supporters, just as he did in the jailhouse phone call when his wife says she is watching the protest of him on TV and he says “I got my hoodie on”. It is simply a dig at supporters. He’s laughing at us all the way to the bank with his donated blood money.

      The guy is a pig!

    • chills101 says:

      I would love to feed that dog his last meal. Im no killer but dont push me. That dog is suffering please somebody put him down.

      • Malisha says:

        HA HA I kicked that dog (while saying it was the first time I had ever kicked a dog but he needed it) last year when he said that there would be a SYG hearing and Fogen would get off for having killed the punk who, he said, was no “choirboy.” I wrote him a violent diatribe against his asinine comment because I said Trayvon had to have notice and opportunity to be heard about being a “not choirboy” before he could be convicted of it, sentenced to death and executed, even in Florida. I added that he should have had a last meal. The dumb dog shut up for a few weeks after that, but once he thought I had abandoned the blog he came back in and barked again. THAT is when he revealed his real position: HE was a Fogen. HE was exactly a Fogen. HE didn’t like “punks” in HIS gated community in Florida. Just as I suspected, he would have loved to have killed Trayvon himself. Half if not most of these apologists are the same.

        They should not be referred to as dogs or bitches; I’m a dog person and I personally KNOW that dogs and bitches are much MUCH better than that.

      • Mary says:

        that is so not okay. don’t talk like that.

        it’s called ‘stochastic violence’ and you’re propagating it.

    • Girlp says:

      Fogen wants to be anyone or thing that has power and authority he has grandiose fantaties….remember was and most likely still is under the care of a mental health worker whethere PHD or MD. I don’t take anything he say’s about that seriously. Next week he will want to be President of the United States.

      • believeinkarma says:

        He will never be anything. He was a loser before and still is. He has delusions of grandeur, paranoia, and limited intellect. He will forever be recognized and will receive social justice. Karma is a b*tch!

      • Hmm … I wonder if he intimated his urge to kill to his mental health care provider?

    • sadlyyes says:

      what in the hell law school ,would enter him? his ADHD would preclude him finishing 1 year methinks,and law schools grade on a curve,the village idiot would be at the bottom…and at long last mebbe he could pass the bar in Lilliput,but even that is questionable

      • Graduated 315 out of 317 in high school and flunked out of 2-year community college program after 7 years of academic futility.

        Perfect candidate for law school.

        Maybe Dershowitz can mentor him at Harvard.

        • Kimmi says:

          “Maybe Dershowitz can mentor him at Harvard!!”

          Too funny! Thats the best laugh I’ve had since this dog & pony show of a trial started! Thanks Professor!

        • longtimegeek says:

          GZ has continually tested the odds of passing and has just beaten them in a scary way. If I were a gambler, I would have bet the house against his record of 3 out of 317 or 0 out of 7, with the cards in my hand. Now, he’s 1 for 1 in getting away with killing. Scary. Even if he’s innocent, which he isn’t, would you want a dumb killer with a gun going around your neighborhood?

          GZ has long said that he wants to be a policeman, lawyer and then judge. I don’t think he’ll get there, because he has a hard time passing classes and because he would probably have a hard time passing physical tests.

      • aussie says:

        Part of his trouble MIGHT be that he could never bring himself to pass a bar. 😉

      • fauxmccoy says:


        have you ever looked at the LSATs? it is nothing but logic and complicated at that — i cannot imagine how this POS could attain a passing score. law school is zim in fantasy land thinking.

        • cielo62 says:

          I took the LSATs. Got 139 out of 180. Not good enough for law school.


          • fauxmccoy says:

            i did manage to get a respectable score, worthy of top tier schools, but also received first cancer diagnosis at the same time. as a returning student at 31, i would have to say that illness changed my career goals and taught me what was truly important in this world. since i met the love of my life while on chemo and my fertility was miraculously preserved, i felt that having the babies i did was more valuable to the world than another law school graduate. i do not regret it.

            LSATs are just the first hurdle though. i cannot tell you how many friends of mine are first year law school drop outs. who knows if i would have made it through. i’m guessing yes, but will never know.

          • cielo62 says:

            Faux McCoy- life is a strange journey, isn’t it? Your hubby sounds wonderful! As do your kids. I never would have made it in law school. Don’t know who I was kidding. After 20 years of teaching I think I found out what I want to be when I grow up. 🙂 PS you would have made a hell of a great lawyer.

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

  27. KateW says:

    This verdict has the racist bigots rushing from under the cracks and crevices to voice their disgust for African Americans. I am sure it is almost reminiscent of African Americans walking through the streets and angry racist pumping their fists and shouting racial epithets.

    I don’t know. Sounds like there may have to be stronger actions taken because Obama just seems to be saying just let it go. A kid is dead and his killer got away and we just need to reflect? I am sorry but that is not going to change things in this country if people just sit back and take the racist and bigot rants.

    • Malisha says:

      “Just reflect” is a special language I call “politisheze” and in translation it means: “Shut Up.”

      • truthseeker says:

        can someone explain to me what the purpose of that speech was…He says that things are actually getting better…In his bubble I don’t doubt that it is.

  28. C-S here on Fred’s screen. Firedoglake blogger DS Wright provides a video link and summary of the comments from Barack Obama today:


    • hmm, i think Obama’s been reading some of my recent posts… 😉

    • Beverly says:

      Thank you. I thought the Pres. was very thoughtful; more candid that usual. But some really ugly note on the You Tube site following the speech. Guess to be expected….I always wish those who can be so nasty and critical could write their own speech…then we would see what they accomplish. Im sure much of the speech will also be on the news later.

      • crazy1946 says:

        Beverly, I predict that you are right, much of the speech will be on the main stream news, however it will be Briebarted and the words will be taken out of context to say things that were not intended…..

    • Tzar says:

      His words mean very little to me right now
      Something is either worthy of action or it is not
      their conscience can decide

  29. Malisha says:

    Strangely, horribly, B-37 is now the voice of America.

    “Voice of America” used to be thought of as a beacon of hope for people living under tyrannies in foreign countries. Now B-37 is the “voice of America” and it is a shame, a disgrace, a humiliation for us. More so even because she is a woman. Horrible.

    • KateW says:

      I absolutely agree! Other countries where the people were watching closes are probably shaking their heads and scoffing at democracy.

  30. Malisha says:

    And even more,
    INjustice for Trayvon is the danger our country faces NOW!
    NOT just every Black teen. Every AMERICAN and every person on our soil.

    Also we are disgraced everywhere in the world. DISGRACED!

  31. sadlyyes says:

    justice for Tray,is really justice for EVERYBODY!

  32. sadlyyes says:

    just read that the “judge” allowed UN supervised visitation,up to 2 hrs,per week for the coffee clutch,ahem jury

    • willisnewton says:

      That seems significant given that two husbands of jurors were local lawyers.

    • crazy1946 says:

      Do you perhaps have a link to the story where you read that?

      • sadlyyes says:

        Channel 9’s Kathi Belich confirmed the jurors were left unsupervised with guests at times, which WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer said is more than enough time for a member to have said something that could have influenced a juror and possibly impacted the verdict.

        • crazy1946 says:

          It would not surprise me if MOM was one of the guests that visited with no supervision! Has anyone checked the GPS movements of the Fogdoit?
          This was just one of many charades that was exhibited during and after the trial… Just Us! shows it’s ugly head again and again and again…….

          • sadlyyes says:

            one of his clerks or gophers,whats the diff…the jury was tainted,as cantaloupe with listeria

  33. Judy75201 says:

    We may not have gotten criminal justice for Trayvon, but we sure as hell ARE getting social justice. I see a beautiful thing happening. Widespread protests in the U.S.; protests in London; our President speaking out today, identifying with Trayvon; JR shutting his stupid fucking mouth on twitter; a monumental twitter response to the injustice.

    I was crushed, gutted, slain, when the verdict was read. It has been so hard everyday since because I have been consumed with hate and rage at the injustice. Now, with what I am seeing, I am healing just a bit.

    • cielo62 says:

      Judy~ But there is SO MUCH MORE to do. I read the comments on the local rag here, and way too many people have NO IDEA why there are protests. No, it’s “a jury has decided. Why are you protesting?” type of ignorant racism. NO MATTER that the jury was tainted and influenced. NO MATTER that much of the evidence wasn’t even presented. To them, the system did it’s thing and we’re supposed to live with it! I take heart with the protests, internationally even. But I despair at the many many who don’t get it and couldn’t care less.


      • Judy75201 says:

        Oh most certainly, Cielo, there is much more to do. I am heartened to see that it is happening, or so it seems to me. Forever vigilent!

      • bettykath says:

        I don’t think these people see themselves as racists. A better description of the problem imo is white privilege. They have the privilege of being white and are unable to see things from the pov of those who are not. If they were to participate in the brown eye/blue eye exercise they might catch on. As was pointed out in Opera’s video, it doesn’t matter which side you’re on. If you’re on the oppressed side you catch on very quickly that something is wrong. If you’re on the privileged side, you quickly believe that you’re superior. What a shock to find out that it was based on your eye color, not your innate superiority (which you didn’t have).

        I took part in an exercise a number of years ago where tokens were handed out “randomly”. The object was to get the most count. Gold tokens were worth so much more than the others. We were in teams of 6-7. Those who always got the “ones”, as did the others in that team, responded by getting their new tokens, joining together with their hands open and giving all their tokens to one person. That is, they almost immediately became a cooperative community.

        Those individuals who got the gold tokens, and a few of the individuals got more than one!, responded to their new tokens by peeking in their cupped hands to see what they had. There was no interaction with teammates. It didn’t take long for the “disadvantaged” to realize the game was rigged and, since their was no way to appeal, chaos took over and the prize, a large box of candy was stolen by one of my teammates. He wasn’t going to let it go to anyone who had an unfair advantage. The rest of team, including myself, backed him up.

        In the discussion that followed, the “disadvantaged” “got” it. The ones with the gold coins really and truly believed that they won b/c they were smarter, luckier, more deserving. They couldn’t see that the game was rigged for exactly the outcome we got. Those in the middle who got enough count to still be in the running, were totally clueless. They tended to believe that they, too, were only a gold token or two away from being winners.

        The candy prize? Yes, there was “discussion” about it. The “winners” wanted it for themselves because they had earned it. They tended to be backed up by the almost-winners but not with a lot of enthusiasm, they still weren’t sure what was going on. Our team had a quick discussion and distributed the candy to all. We had all been duped by a rigged game. One of the most eye-opening exercises I’ve been a part of.

      • believeinkarma says:

        And that is exactly how all these dumb laws are done. Apathy.

  34. commenting says:

    I think that black reverend who referred to trayvon as a thug, is not much different from the muslims who punish women when they get raped…none of us are perfect, so we need to stop being self righteous …….

    • Malisha says:

      I’ve heard a few of that guy’s rants. He’s a popular moron and nothing more nor less than a popular moron. If he had any kind of real moral authority we would have heard of him before he had these kind of spots on TV, don’t you think?

    • roderick2012 says:

      commenting, I believe you’re reffering to Jesse Lee Peterson who has Stockholm Syndrome.

      The dude is crazy because he stated once that blacks should be grateful for slavery.

      He’s like the a self-hating black version of Rush Limbaugh- he loves to hear his own voice.

    • cielo62 says:

      commenting~ your comment is confusing and insulting. So we’re not perfect, that means it’s OK to get punished for being raped? What?


  35. Woow! says:

    How did we fall asleep and allow racist to write the laws and direct conversations regarding race in this country? Each time a politician use a code word we should blast them and not let them walk back their statements.

    Darryl Issa and his boy comment to Mr. Elijah Cumminings was no slip of the tongue.

    “I’m always shocked when the ranking member seems to want to say, like a little boy whose hand has been caught in a cookie jar, ‘What hand? What cookie?’ I’ve never said it leads to the White House,” Issa said.

    “I want to make sure I make something very clear: When I referred to my ranking member … I took a shortcut in how I expressed it, and I want to make it very clear: that when I talk about the ‘little boy putting his hand in the cookie jar’ … that is something that I grew up with, and it is intended to be about a small child and in no way is the use of ‘boy’ or ‘little boy’ to mean anything else,” Issa said.

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/darrell-issa-clarifies-elijah-cummings-boy-comment-94433.html#ixzz2ZW8637PF

  36. commenting says:

    Oh wow there is a pastor, who got interviwed by piers Morgan, a black pastor…he referred to Trayvon as a thug………………………………………………………….ok I did not know Trayvon personally. So let’s say he was indeed a thug who had recently completed his prison sentense for assault. …………………..the physical altercation gz described does not fit the actions of a thug..after gz got sucker punched as he claimed,what did the thug do?..the thug who broke his nose with one punch,making him disoriented, just stood there and let gz swat him 40feet foward without dilivering a few more serous blows?..that was a consederate thug…………………………………….a thug would have ran away when John Goode stepped out……I gues the thug turned into a phycopath that niight

    • commenting says:

      I understand that this preacher/reverend may be fed up of black crimes…I am tired and ashamed about hearing about all this black violent crimes too, but we need to stop being self righteous and make sure w to know the facts first…..as for the violent criminals out there, I really don’t mind when they kill each other……………………….and what if Trayvon had a very violent past….that should not be used a

      • commenting says:

        A person’s pass can be used at times to make judgements on circumstances/incedents that this person is involved in, but we also need to use common sense…even if Trayvon was known as a thug who viciously, beat up random people in the past,..gz’s textimony of how the fight took place does not describe a thug, …smothering him..yeah right,..then going for a gun then forgetting about the gun in your victim’s hand to bang his heas again..that must have been the dummest thug

        • cielo62 says:

          commenting~ I can’t tell if you are a stupid troll or just wanting to start trouble, but Trayvon was NOT A THUG, but a normal teen, doing normal teen stuff. That includes downloading videos, pictures and experimenting with weed. He never attacked ANYONE and I am getting rather steamed that you have asserted that in several posts already. STICK to the FACTS. You have a right to your opinions but NOT to the facts.


          • aussie says:

            commenting is being sarcastic.

            I can see from 12,000 miles away it’s sarcastic.

            Misunderstanding things is a major cause of trouble between people.

            Please always double check and read again, before having a go at another poster here.

            commenting is actually making some very good points. Look for them and you’ll find them.

          • cielo62 says:

            aussie~ if a post is so subtly sarcastic that a careful reader like me doesn’t get it, then it’s not clear and will be taken incorrectly by many. Its better to speak up and get clarification.


          • aussie says:

            “so let’s say he WAS….”” “that was a considerat thug” “does not describe a thug, …smothering him..yeah right,..”

            the “Yeah Right” is an absolute giveaway even if you’re just skimming the post,

            Are you reading from the bottom up? if you read top down, you can see Commenting had a series of posts all connected.

            Read them again, don’t get blinded with anger the moment you see the word “thug”. Everyone’s nerves are raw still, don’t make it worse by jumping to the wrong conclusions.

      • deetruth says:

        I’ve seen this preacher many times on Fox. He’s a total a$$ and thoroughly enjoys the spotlight. Actually, IMO, he’s pretty despicable and he has absolutely no credibility and offers nothing of value to this or any dialogue.

        Cable news host looking for ratings love to have him on their show. His personal character, value system and moral compass apparently allows him to sell his soul to his desire to get attention, even negative attention.

        What else can I say. If I have extra time, I may pray for him too.

      • cielo62 says:

        commenting~ don’t post any more of those lies. Trayvon had NO history of violence of ANY kind.


    • sparger says:

      It’s Jessie Peterson. He hates black people. He is a real life Uncle Ruckus. I knew who it was as soon as I read your comment. You can ignore him now and forever more.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      definitely not thug action. the white thugs i knew several years ago would have kicked his head in with steel toed shoes once they got him to the ground.

    • Girlp says:

      Sick! He knows nothing about Trayvon, whoever this pastor is he’s the thug.

    • C-S on Fred’s screen, and I may be mistaken but I think the case law is pretty clear, that in order for the ‘thug factor’ to kick in legally, 1)Trayvon would have had to have been a ‘thug,’ and he wasn’t and 2) Zimmerman would have had to have known him and he did not.

      So much for the ‘thug’ factor. Plus I don’t care if Trayvon Martin was carrying a banner that said ‘thug,’ this does not mean that he can be pursued and killed.

    • A preacher in fixed news is an aberration!

  37. Crane-Station with a drive by briefly on Fred’s screen.. Note to self: We need to keep Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg on like, life support forever.

    Back to regularly scheduled program…

  38. whonoze says:

    For anyone wondering about possible concrete outcomes of political activism in the wake of the Zimmerman verdict:

    MOM has announced he is going to file some sort of motion to preclude any sort of civil litigation against GZ for TM’s death. A judge will have to rule on this, and that ruling will necessarily be affected by it’s political consequences. If public protest against the verdict and for reform in the SYG laws remains strong, it becomes less likely any judge would risk the shitstorm of ruling in favor of MOM’s motion, and more likely the judge will kick the can down the road to a court hearing whatever case the Martin family might bring.

    Keep the spotlight on!

    • willisnewton says:

      His motion seems predicated in an end run around an immunity hearing. Has anyone with a legal background written about this?

      I feel that this jury cannot stand in for a judge hearing the defendant claim self defense. This jury only ruled that the state failed to prove murder, the way I see it, not that the defendant was justified.

    • racerrodig says:

      The law is clear on that. He had to file under the SYG law and they waived it. Once again he’s trying to rewrite the law on the fly. He can and more than likely will be sued.

      You simply can’t file a Motion so you can’t be sued when the law states as clear a a bell he must use that specific Immunity.

      There are so many case law precedents it’s a joke.

      • Jun says:

        also it does not matter, even if Nelson grants it because it’s a civil motion which can be appealed to a higher court anyways

        Nelson cant stop after a not guilty, a person’s right to go at someone civilly for wrongful death

        Plus Omara has to present his case to Nelson and also give a chance to Crump and Blackwell to present their case to be fair

        Presenting a case is way different than using reasonable doubt

    • cielo62 says:

      MOM can dow whatever he wants, BUT the civil case and teh criminal case are two different things. Acquitted in criminal does NOT give ANY kind of immunity in civil. MOM is once again LYING like the snake that he is.


    • Jun says:

      i dont know but it sounds like he can be sued and any motion can be appealed to the higher court because the Martin family is entitled to settle the case civilly

      It’s way easier to skate on reasonable doubt and considering Omara’s motion, he’d have to prove his case and he’d also have to inform the Martins ahead of time so they can be heard in the manner

      also since this is a civil motion, it can be appealed and appealed to kingdom come

    • His client waived his rights in open court in front of the judge,there is not going back,that train left the station long ago!
      Buffoon MoM is a prevaricator!

  39. LiveByTheGulf says:

    During research came across news about a 13-year-old teen who was near the crime:
    “A 13-year-old who is one of two key witnesses in the Trayvon Martin shooting felt “pressured” by cops to tailor what he saw, his mom told the Daily News Thursday.
    The revelation comes as shooter George Zimmerman’s father went public with new claims, including that Trayvon told his son “you’re going to die tonight.”

    Police in Sanford, Fla., have said that Austin Brown, who went out to walk his dog on Feb. 26 near where Trayvon was shot, saw Zimmerman lying in the grass crying for help just before the slaying.
    But Austin’s mom, Cheryl Brown, told the News that when cops interviewed her son eight days after Trayvon’s death, he told them he saw only one person lying in the grass and he couldn’t tell who it was.
    “He kept telling them he couldn’t see anything because it was too dark,” she said. “He said he couldn’t see the race or anything. He never saw a second person. ”


    • Nef05 says:

      Austin never testified. I expected him to. I posted, during jury selection that I not only thought that he would be one of the prosecution’s alternative theories of how fogen received his head wounds, but that his presence on the stand would provide the jury with a living representation of a young, black teen male who was respectful, articulate and not a “threat”.

      I posted an article with a picture and another poster responded with a link to an interview he had done. He would have come across well. As you know – the jury never saw him or heard his testimony after seeing fogen ALONE on the ground BEFORE the shot.

      This was one of the MANY problems I had with the prosecution, and their whole “we had to work with the witnesses we had” excuses was bull!

  40. Allison says:

    This may have been discussed or answered before but when is the Richardson hearing and the other issues the judge said would be taken up after the trial? I heard west talking about it a couple of days after the trial but never heard when it was suppose to be. Thanks

  41. commenting says:

    Was it guy or mantie who ask the criminal consultant on the stand wether gz could have gotten the nasal injury when he fell to the ground..I was like wow

  42. willisnewton says:

    Obama just said that trayvon Martin was followed by George Zimmerman in his car.

  43. THE Shadow says:

    Jeremy saw the actual shooting, didn’t he?

    • willisnewton says:

      He claims not to have

    • Valerie says:

      Did he ??? I thought so at first…seconds after the shot Jeremy says “Oh my God” then Jenna says “get in here…get up here”. as he responding “OMG” because of what he saw or merely to the gun shot?

      • gbrbsbblogs says:

        Jeremy’s almost immediate words after the shot are from my work on the recording:

        Is/it’s the black hurt/hit (?)

        Professor Leatherman if you are around, please check to see if this comment of mine actually publishes on the blog’s page visible to other bloggers, and is not SIMPLY figuring on your admin page where you may see it and think it’s posted normally when it hasn’t, (just as was happening with my comments at whonoze’s blog, and he realised that although on his admin page they were not posting on the actual blog and he did something that fixed it for me… since other blogs fixed the problem your’s is the ONLY blog I am not able to post properly unless I reply to a blogger’s reply to me).

        • gbrbsbblogs says:

          Finally I have been able to post directly on the page after around 3 weeks

          I can’s help worrying if this will be a permanent solution, or as has happened before, that it will it stop working with this second comment I am posting or a few more after this. We can only wait and see!

        • Tzar says:

          can you clarify?

          • gbrbsbblogs says:

            Based on axioamnesia’s recording for timings, immediately after the sound of the gunshot, from 41.7 to 43, I have isolated what I I believe is Jeremy’s voice saying as noted above. I am not sure if the first word is “Is” or “It’s”, but as his intonation rises as for an interrogations for the end of the sentence I lean towards “Is”. In respect of “hurt” or “hit”, I believe it to be “hurt” because of what I hear as an “err” sound not a “i” but it could be both.

            If you are listen to it, use headphones, but now you have my interpretation of what is said you will probably hear it as if you have always heard it which is precisely one of the problems Nakasone noted and why they use blind groups to test because I have now in effect conditioned you to hear it.

          • Tzar says:

            thank you I will give it another listen
            I don’t worry about bias

        • Yes, your comment posted on the blog page visible to other bloggers.

          I did not do anything that I am aware of to change anything, so I still do not know what caused the problem or what solved it.

          Not terribly reassuring I realize . . .

          • gbrbsbblogs says:

            Thank you professor. Yes I have been able to post on the blog page for the first time in ages. I had almost given up although I have been absent for a while because I was just too tired and needed a few days rest.

            I am using the “Reply” on the page to see if I can respond to you because up to now I can only respond to other’s replies to me from the notifications page. Here’s crossing my fingers it works so if you see this please check again if it is posting on the blog page or just on your admin page.

          • gbrbsbblogs says:

            Eureka! It worked again so here’s to keeping fingers crossed that the problem could be finally resolved.

    • Malisha says:

      If he didn’t physically SEE the actual shooting, he certainly DID see the seconds leading up to it, and definitely saw what Jane S saw, with Fogen OVER Trayvon and Trayvon screaming in mortal terror. HE DID SEE THAT and there is no physical way he could have NOT seen that. The prosecution agreeing to allow his experience (sight and sound) to remain un-investigated was part and parcel of the fraud committed upon the American people and the People of the State of Florida by Corey and her team after the fraud perpetrated upon the People of the State of Florida and the survivors of Trayvon Martin by the Sanford Police and Norman Wolfinger, EVWP. (Ethics Violator With Protection)

      It was fraud. It gave rise to a sham proceeding. I was sure we would see him, and Rashada, and FDLE, on the stand in rebuttals and the entire defense scheme would be exposed. The sudden “no rebuttals” that preceded the dramatic “who cares” emotional closing arguments [by then defense didn’t have to do anything other than show their little cartoon] made it clear (in retrospect, and shame on me for not realizing it sooner but I was in denial) that the whole thing was a faked-up show meant to send the complainers home so “WE” don’t have to deal with their fuss any more.

      This was the true picture of American Tyranny. Put a loaded gun into the hands of any bully who wants to reinstate FULL POWERS to the warlords, slavers, and thieves whose prototype ancesters first wrested authority from Britain after wresting the land from the native Americans.

      The Revolution succeeded because Britain allowed America to have its own courts. We will return to pre-13th amendment conditions because of the progeny of those first diseased courts. The disease has mutated, of course. It does so every few decades. Remissions do not last forever.

      • Valerie says:

        You are so correct Malisha…in everything you said. Jeremy should have been made to testify. His “OMG !!” troubles me.

        The extent this case has poisoned our justice system, our CHILDREN, and our assumption of civility between citizens has come directly into question.

        Jordan Davis’ case is next. Will we have to further bow to state sanctioned,cowardly,paranoid, scared, gun toting types?

    • bettykath says:

      Jeremy does what his handler, Jenna, tells him to do.

      • Malisha says:

        Except she had to tell him “get IN HERE” three times!

        He was acting like an unruly toddler. I expected to hear, “Jeremy if you don’t GET IN HERE you lose TV privileges for ONE WHOLE YEAR and I MEAN IT!”

        She was part of the little clique that wanted to move the n*****rs out of RTL.

  44. LiveByTheGulf says:

    Breaking News: Obama is addressing the Trayvon Martin case.

    • Beverly says:

      Did you hear any of what he was saying? I didn’t. Thanks.

    • lady2soothe says:

      Transcript: President Comments On George Zimmerman Verdict

      I wanted to come out here, first of all, to tell you that Jay is prepared for all your questions and is very much looking forward to the session. The second thing is I want to let you know that over the next couple of weeks, there’s going to obviously be a whole range of issues — immigration, economics, et cetera — we’ll try to arrange a fuller press conference to address your questions.
      The reason I actually wanted to come out today is not to take questions, but to speak to an issue that obviously has gotten a lot of attention over the course of the last week — the issue of the Trayvon Martin ruling. I gave a preliminary statement right after the ruling on Sunday. But watching the debate over the course of the last week, I thought it might be useful for me to expand on my thoughts a little bit.
      First of all, I want to make sure that, once again, I send my thoughts and prayers, as well as Michelle’s, to the family of Trayvon Martin, and to remark on the incredible grace and dignity with which they’ve dealt with the entire situation. I can only imagine what they’re going through, and it’s remarkable how they’ve handled it.
      The second thing I want to say is to reiterate what I said on Sunday, which is there’s going to be a lot of arguments about the legal issues in the case — I’ll let all the legal analysts and talking heads address those issues. The judge conducted the trial in a professional manner. The prosecution and the defense made their arguments. The juries were properly instructed that in a case such as this reasonable doubt was relevant, and they rendered a verdict. And once the jury has spoken, that’s how our system works. But I did want to just talk a little bit about context and how people have responded to it and how people are feeling.
      You know, when Trayvon Martin was first shot I said that this could have been my son. Another way of saying that is Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago. And when you think about why, in the African American community at least, there’s a lot of pain around what happened here, I think it’s important to recognize that the African American community is looking at this issue through a set of experiences and a history that doesn’t go away.
      There are very few African American men in this country who haven’t had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store. That includes me. There are very few African American men who haven’t had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. That happens to me — at least before I was a senator. There are very few African Americans who haven’t had the experience of getting on an elevator and a woman clutching her purse nervously and holding her breath until she had a chance to get off. That happens often.
      And I don’t want to exaggerate this, but those sets of experiences inform how the African American community interprets what happened one night in Florida. And it’s inescapable for people to bring those experiences to bear. The African American community is also knowledgeable that there is a history of racial disparities in the application of our criminal laws — everything from the death penalty to enforcement of our drug laws. And that ends up having an impact in terms of how people interpret the case.
      Now, this isn’t to say that the African American community is naïve about the fact that African American young men are disproportionately involved in the criminal justice system; that they’re disproportionately both victims and perpetrators of violence. It’s not to make excuses for that fact — although black folks do interpret the reasons for that in a historical context. They understand that some of the violence that takes place in poor black neighborhoods around the country is born out of a very violent past in this country, and that the poverty and dysfunction that we see in those communities can be traced to a very difficult history.
      And so the fact that sometimes that’s unacknowledged adds to the frustration. And the fact that a lot of African American boys are painted with a broad brush and the excuse is given, well, there are these statistics out there that show that African American boys are more violent — using that as an excuse to then see sons treated differently causes pain.
      I think the African American community is also not naïve in understanding that, statistically, somebody like Trayvon Martin was statistically more likely to be shot by a peer than he was by somebody else. So folks understand the challenges that exist for African American boys. But they get frustrated, I think, if they feel that there’s no context for it and that context is being denied. And that all contributes I think to a sense that if a white male teen was involved in the same kind of scenario, that, from top to bottom, both the outcome and the aftermath might have been different.
      Now, the question for me at least, and I think for a lot of folks, is where do we take this? How do we learn some lessons from this and move in a positive direction? I think it’s understandable that there have been demonstrations and vigils and protests, and some of that stuff is just going to have to work its way through, as long as it remains nonviolent. If I see any violence, then I will remind folks that that dishonors what happened to Trayvon Martin and his family. But beyond protests or vigils, the question is, are there some concrete things that we might be able to do.
      I know that Eric Holder is reviewing what happened down there, but I think it’s important for people to have some clear expectations here. Traditionally, these are issues of state and local government, the criminal code. And law enforcement is traditionally done at the state and local levels, not at the federal levels.
      That doesn’t mean, though, that as a nation we can’t do some things that I think would be productive. So let me just give a couple of specifics that I’m still bouncing around with my staff, so we’re not rolling out some five-point plan, but some areas where I think all of us could potentially focus.
      Number one, precisely because law enforcement is often determined at the state and local level, I think it would be productive for the Justice Department, governors, mayors to work with law enforcement about training at the state and local levels in order to reduce the kind of mistrust in the system that sometimes currently exists.
      When I was in Illinois, I passed racial profiling legislation, and it actually did just two simple things. One, it collected data on traffic stops and the race of the person who was stopped. But the other thing was it resourced us training police departments across the state on how to think about potential racial bias and ways to further professionalize what they were doing.
      And initially, the police departments across the state were resistant, but actually they came to recognize that if it was done in a fair, straightforward way that it would allow them to do their jobs better and communities would have more confidence in them and, in turn, be more helpful in applying the law. And obviously, law enforcement has got a very tough job.
      So that’s one area where I think there are a lot of resources and best practices that could be brought to bear if state and local governments are receptive. And I think a lot of them would be. And let’s figure out are there ways for us to push out that kind of training.
      Along the same lines, I think it would be useful for us to examine some state and local laws to see if it — if they are designed in such a way that they may encourage the kinds of altercations and confrontations and tragedies that we saw in the Florida case, rather than diffuse potential altercations.
      I know that there’s been commentary about the fact that the “stand your ground” laws in Florida were not used as a defense in the case. On the other hand, if we’re sending a message as a society in our communities that someone who is armed potentially has the right to use those firearms even if there’s a way for them to exit from a situation, is that really going to be contributing to the kind of peace and security and order that we’d like to see?
      And for those who resist that idea that we should think about something like these “stand your ground” laws, I’d just ask people to consider, if Trayvon Martin was of age and armed, could he have stood his ground on that sidewalk? And do we actually think that he would have been justified in shooting Mr. Zimmerman who had followed him in a car because he felt threatened? And if the answer to that question is at least ambiguous, then it seems to me that we might want to examine those kinds of laws.
      Number three — and this is a long-term project — we need to spend some time in thinking about how do we bolster and reinforce our African American boys. And this is something that Michelle and I talk a lot about. There are a lot of kids out there who need help who are getting a lot of negative reinforcement. And is there more that we can do to give them the sense that their country cares about them and values them and is willing to invest in them?
      I’m not naïve about the prospects of some grand, new federal program. I’m not sure that that’s what we’re talking about here. But I do recognize that as President, I’ve got some convening power, and there are a lot of good programs that are being done across the country on this front. And for us to be able to gather together business leaders and local elected officials and clergy and celebrities and athletes, and figure out how are we doing a better job helping young African American men feel that they’re a full part of this society and that they’ve got pathways and avenues to succeed — I think that would be a pretty good outcome from what was obviously a tragic situation. And we’re going to spend some time working on that and thinking about that.

      And then, finally, I think it’s going to be important for all of us to do some soul-searching. There has been talk about should we convene a conversation on race. I haven’t seen that be particularly productive when politicians try to organize conversations. They end up being stilted and politicized, and folks are locked into the positions they already have. On the other hand, in families and churches and workplaces, there’s the possibility that people are a little bit more honest, and at least you ask yourself your own questions about, am I wringing as much bias out of myself as I can? Am I judging people as much as I can, based on not the color of their skin, but the content of their character? That would, I think, be an appropriate exercise in the wake of this tragedy.
      And let me just leave you with a final thought that, as difficult and challenging as this whole episode has been for a lot of people, I don’t want us to lose sight that things are getting better. Each successive generation seems to be making progress in changing attitudes when it comes to race. It doesn’t mean we’re in a post-racial society. It doesn’t mean that racism is eliminated. But when I talk to Malia and Sasha, and I listen to their friends and I seem them interact, they’re better than we are — they’re better than we were — on these issues. And that’s true in every community that I’ve visited all across the country.
      And so we have to be vigilant and we have to work on these issues. And those of us in authority should be doing everything we can to encourage the better angels of our nature, as opposed to using these episodes to heighten divisions. But we should also have confidence that kids these days, I think, have more sense than we did back then, and certainly more than our parents did or our grandparents did; and that along this long, difficult journey, we’re becoming a more perfect union — not a perfect union, but a more perfect union. Thank you, guys.

  45. chills101 says:

    Professor like me and my goons say CHURCH. goons= pals, friends, anybody that got your back…….. The justice system has never done me no good.

  46. ay2z says:

    Is George Zimmerman a sychopath?

    • Girlp says:

      This applies DaddyZ and family, O’Mara and West. O’Mara could not even pretend to empathize. George is the idot psychopath.

    • cielo62 says:

      ay2z~ In MY book he certainly is! He has a major number of the characteristics.


  47. Woow! says:

    Department of Justice to investigate entire Sanford police

    Boneparte asked the DOJ to investigate SPD after receiving complaints about officers.


    • Cercando Luce says:

      That article is from 3/28/12. But no wonder Ofr Smith’s hands shook with that laser pointer.

    • Girlp says:

      BLDR referred to it, West and O’Mara wanted to know what was going on there as well as any information they had on Zimmerman they were denied….this could go on for many years.

    • cielo62 says:

      Woow!~ well it’s a step in the right direction, but still a  murderer is loose.  I hope karma is already biting at his soul… IF he has one. if not, I hope karma is biting his ASS!


  48. commenting says:

    Hey, I belive that people can make changes, slavery in America is history, segregation is over, women can vote; these are just a few among many other positive changes that has occured because of the effort and sacrifice and change of heart of individuals… but and I say BUT ..this is an imperfect world where evil has the power, I am in no way suggesting that anyone should give up their fight…but we have to accept that there will always be injustice and unfainess…..why can’t a poor man become the president of this nation?…why can’t the poor vote to put better persons in political offices?…I know ,I know, to run for the presidential office you need money to adverize….y? There is Facebook, YouTube, so if poor people really wanted to make a difference in voting for poor individuals like themselves they could….they are brainwashed…they will laugh at the poor man who decides to run for political office if he used Facebook to promote himself….why can’t the poor vote for the people who reflect their values?…is it because these government officials change after they are selected?……hey man there is so much the poor can do….the secret scocieties will allow what they want….evil rules this world….I heard that we are fooled into beliving that presidents are chosen by votes…

    • commenting says:

      You wanna mess with the NRA?..if you are making too much waves, they might just give u cancer….who will suspect that u were murdered if u die of cancer….they know how to get rid of troublemakers…God will have the ultimate say

    • commenting says:

      Belive me when I say those in power will take away you guns when they want too….they will disarm everyone in this country when they want too, they will march into your house and take away your guns and throw you in prison if you resist…and most important of all, they will brainwash the masses into believing that it is because of their complaints ..they will make the masses believe that their wishes are being fulfilled

    • truthseeker66 says:

      Slavery in America today looks a lot different. How long has it been since minimum wage increase? There are co that exploit their workers and pay below minimum wage. One such co overcharged minimum wage employees for uniforms and cost of laundry. This was a co that provides janitorial services. After employee paid these cost their hourly wage was more than 10% below minimum wage. I’m not even going to start in about segregation in public schools…

      • cielo62 says:

        truthseeker~ there’s real slavery here in the southwest. Illegal immigrants, “undocumented workers” get paid LESS than minimum wage, IF they get paid at all. Some really greed bastards will stiff them because they cannot complain. Who will take the word of an illegal alien?


    • Mary says:

      slavery in america is not over. there are now more african americans in american prisons than there were slaves in 1950.

      never ever think anything but that trayvon was murdered by a racist who couldn’t bear to see him walking around free.

  49. Drew says:

    I’m sorry but I give up.

    “Trayvon Martin criminal record” is a far more popular search than “George Zimmerman criminal record”, and that fat piece of shit actually HAD a criminal record.

    It is very difficult for me to remain engaged.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      All that is because Mark O’Mara and Don West were permitted by the state of Florida to hold uncountable news conferences, and to issue uncountable press releases accusing Trayvon Martin of exactly the same activities his killer was involved in, SO THAT less-interested members of the public would be infected by false “information.”

      And of course, there was the Orlando Sentinel eagerly broadcasting whatever Mark O’Mara said, without ever confirming any allegation.

  50. FactsFirst says:

    My memories of a corpse… mind full of sick thoughts, and I aint going back to COURT,,, so “F” what you thought…I’m drinking Hennessy, running from my enemies, will I live to be 23″ in so much “PAIN”:

    IT RUNS DEEP… UnderDig/Understand?

  51. bettykath says:

    Link to the video of kids reaction to the cheerios video

    • truthseeker66 says:

      Half way through elementary school that changes. They get their cues from family and society a whole. If we could all retain our childlike innocence the world would b utopian.

  52. willisnewton says:

    What then must be done?

    Ask Bradley Manning, ask Edward Snowden. Ask John Lewis. Ask Rosa Parks.

    Ask Nelson Mandela. Ask Ghandi, who was an anarchist, don’t forget. an anarchist.

    Ask Frank Little, who was lynched for organizing workers to strike for better working conditions and a five day work week.

    Ask yourself.

  53. Malisha says:

    WHERE is the Washington DC demonstration on Saturday: in front of the federal courthouse or, more appropriately (I sure hope) in front of DOJ? Shouldn’t the DOJ be the focus of everything now? There is nothing IN the federal courthouse to be addressed, yet, until and unless DOJ does a proper investigation of the conspiracy to deprive Trayvon Martin of his life interest in walking home with candy without becoming “the suspect” in a police report.

    • Girlp says:

      My understanding is they are looking at the trial as well.

    • God is there says:

      I’m praying that the DOJ will bring some kind of justice for Trayvon and closure for his family, friends, all those who want justice for them. I’m praying hard because this was just wrong. When I heard Jury B37 talk on Anderson Cooper, I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. They took absolutely no thought for Trayvon’s death and the manner in which it occurred. “I believed George.” REALLY? And even when she stated that Trayvon’s death weighed heavy on them, I just couldn’t believe a word that came out of her mouth. She used words like: “These people” and something to the effect of: “Who knows how Racheal was raised.” WHAT WAS THAT? Sounded very prejudiced to me and how very offensive it was. She stated they couldn’t find anything that they could charge GZ with; well, what about MURDERING AN INNOCENT KID WHO WAS JUST WALKING HOME, AND THE FACT THAT IT WOULD HAVE NEVER HAPPENED IF THE IDIOT HAD OF JUST STAYED IN HIS TRUCK AND ALLOWED “THE (SO-CALLED) REAL POLICE” TO HANDLE IT. They probably would have never even seen Trayvon because he would have been home by then. And the other thing that really upset me was when she said: ‘Trayvon should of just went home.’ REALLY? I believe that’s what he was trying to do until the CAC caught up him, grab him, and more than likely threw him to the ground; (“GET OFF ME, GET OFF ME”). I cannot believe that THIS, THIS! happened and 3 of them did not care. Were they “Ringers” set in place to assure that GZ walked free? i really have to wonder about that. I want to know what I can do to help. I’m not law-lit; but there must be something that I can do. Someone please tell me what I can do.

      • a2nite says:

        The DOJ needs to look at at the police really hard as well as the initial prosecutors. They didn’t collect evidence. Why not? What was wrong with that ME. He can’t have that many homicides of 17 year old boys.

      • Soulcatcher says:

        Well we know how B37 was raised, calling the killer George and the victim the boy of color.

    • Nef05 says:

      The courthouse, Malisha. I posted the address, but there was a link in it, then I posted the link to the page with all the listings across the country, so I’m in double link moderation, for the moment. Here’s the page link with all the addresses across the country. Just scroll down to DC. Hopefully, this one should come straight thru:


      • Malisha says:

        Oh, I wish it was in front of DOJ, but OK.
        I suppose it’s best to be uniform for all cities: federal courthouse. That does make sense, after all, doesn’t it?

        • Nef05 says:

          I’m not quite sure why they did it that way. I’m not familiar with the areas around both buildings in DC. Ours is at our US Attorney’s Office of the Eastern District of Michigan. Perhaps in DC, the federal courthouse is simply more accessible, to more people?

  54. LiveByTheGulf says:

    This little rhyme has been going through my mind lately:
    Georgia Porgy pudding and pie.
    Killed a guy and made him die.

  55. amsterdam1234 says:

    FBI has put a hold on the evidence of the case. GZ won’t be getting his gun back, for now.

    • cielo62 says:

      amsterdam~ I guess it doesn’t matter. A gun shop offered him a new one for free. 😦


      • amsterdam1234 says:

        I know Cielo. It just seems such an insult to give him back the gun, with which he killed Trayvon. And it is good news that the FBI, immediately has claimed all the evidence.

      • towerflower says:

        It’s scary knowing that such a paranoid man can still carry a gun, regardless whether it was given to him or he got his back. I fear for anyone who just might be going in the same direction as this person.

    • a2nite says:

      With his violent history, he should never have had a gun. It is a definite no-no for neighborhood watch. He’s a menace. He’s dangerous. He’s a murderer because he was armed and dangerous.

      There is something wrong with the American people that many think that this nonsense is ok.

      • Mary says:

        “There is something wrong with the American people that many think that this nonsense is ok”

        you can say that again. there is also something really wrong with lawyers who think this trial was all just a-okay. i have found exactly one lawyer – frederick leatherman – of all the lawyers commenting on blogs who are offering anything like a critical analysis of this verdict. every other lawyer – including those who comment on dkos – are ‘well you win some, you lose some, better that ten guilty men walk than one innocent be convicted, our legal system is designed to be generous to the defense’ blah blah blah blah.

        this is the return we as a society get from people privileged enough to receive an education from that society: the chance to be fed empty platitudes by those who unthinkingly accept their positions as cogs in a decrepit machine.

        i’m so over it.

    • Girlp says:

      He has been offered a free gun…please someone take it away from this severly mentally ill and evil man as I believe he suffers from mental illnesses however he is also a sociopath an extremley dangerous combination.

      • Malisha says:

        You know, there are people in federal prisons who have never DONE anything to ANYONE and who have been prosecuted under the terrorist laws (and who are in prison labeled as TERRORISTS) simply because they gave untrue statements to FBI agents. GIVING an untrue statement — no matter how immaterial, and no matter how ridiculous — to a federal officer — is a federal offense. Do you think it is even POSSIBLE that an untrue statement has not been given to federal officers in the course of this case so far? Even conceivable that there has not been even one false statement made to these federal officers?

        It is simply impossible. There have been federal crimes committed already. Many of them.

        • sadlyyes says:

          and some are Trayvons age

        • Girlp says:

          Untrue statements exsist throughout this case by Zimmerman his parents and friends as as well as witness 6. I am also upset that a juror admits her decision in this case is based on evidence not presented at trial and that she lied during voire dire (sp) she listened to everything O’Mara had to say.

    • LiveByTheGulf says:

      I read it and one of the comments:
      “What a surprise all the Trayvon lovers have coming their way..I can’t wait.I wondered why he got so mad and came back to attack GZ.Well its all clear now,for over a year he was abusing DXM and the longer you use it the more aggressive you become.The autopsy even shows liver damage from it.You see he didn’t have tea he had a watermelon drink from Arizona tea,and skittles and they are 2 parts…the 3rd robitussin dm cough syrup for a drug called “lean” …it is a homemade pcp………..used by gangster and gangster wannabes. he was suspended in October for stolen jewelry and was present at school less than 30 days of 55.”

      Where do they get this specific information i.e. liver damage, DXM, Robitussin etc. Thought the stolen jewelry incident was false. The conservatives destroy a person, and then they are worthy of judge, jury, executioner by George.

      • willisnewton says:

        This stuff about cough syrup abuse is lies. There is no “recipe” for “lean.” People’s who want to drink some codeine mix it or dont, most of it comes flavored already.

        Two people met – one’s dead and the other is a liar. The verdict from a deeply flawed trial in a state with deeply flawed laws didn’t change that at all.

        Don’t be surprised that hatred comes so easily to many.

      • towerflower says:

        Live….they twist the autopsy report. TM had a mild fatty liver. That side tries to say that it shows that TM abused lean, what they don’t bother to find out is there are many, many reasons a person could have a mild fatty liver……..diet is one of them. Some like to say that his brain also showed proof of drug abuse and that too is not true. I researched the medical terms of the report and basically he had some bleeding and swelling around the brain. This is not uncommon when the brain is denied oxygen and blood flow. So once again, it is not proof of drug abuse.

        When this case was early on and I first heard about Lean/Purple Drank, I researched that too. Several rappers have sung about it and it was commonly made with Sprite or Mt. Dew, Jolly Ranchers, and a prescription cough medicine that contained codeine and promethazine. When the case started to take off, the fogen supporters started the Lean/Purple Drank conspiracy and even changed Wikipedia to show that the ingredients were changed to Watermelon cocktail drink, skittles, and Robitussin DM cough syrup. This has since been removed.

        I challenged many people to direct me to one site, just one, which showed that a watermelon drink and skittles were the ingredients for Lean that EXISTED before 2-26-12. I can tell you I never found one started before that date. It is nothing but a rumor that went viral as being the truth when it is far from it.

  56. LiveByTheGulf says:

    Yesterdays Viewpoint featured the title “Wendy Davis, Democrats are morally bankrupt”. “Morally bankrupt” has a tone of, “God hates Democrats”. The Democrats have stood by women, at the cost of losing voters. I gave up on the church when Bush got into office. Gave up on the Supreme Court when they put Bush into office. Gave up on the courts long ago.

    Who deserves justice? Conservatives say, “Where is the justice for the unborn?” Yet when the baby is born, the conservative duty to protect life is over. Young men make great cannon fodder to fight wars (Bush’s wars).

    • believeinkarma says:

      God doesn’t hate anyone. Wish conservatives would keep their religion at home. Per the constitution we have the right to religious freedom.
      How can you wave your flag and hold the bible spouting hate & intolerance? That is certainly not American and definitely not Christian.

  57. now you sound like the man I always respected. I have to agree with you on this subject, blessings my friend keep up your great efforts to educate others for change and justice for all

  58. Valerie says:

    Last night I sent information to the DOJ tip site asking them to look into the statements Tom Owens (the voice analyst) found on the tape. I sent them this 911 NEN call where Fogen can be heard saying “Im going to f–g kill you”. I have listened to several other enhanced versions and heard the same thing. Curiously, Jeremy never testified, but after the gunshot he says “OMG,” though it is not clear to me whether he actually saw anything. However, I do have questions as to why he never was called to testify. Also I pointed out Jeremy’s curious statement heard on the tape “He warned me,he was serious”.

    I hope others on this board will join me to ask the DOJ to question Tom Owen about what he heard on the tape,and any other matters that you feel are important.

    Here is part on my email and the NEN call.

    I recommend you use good headphones, like AKG K77s or better, @00:37 a
    person who sounds like George Zimmerman is heard saying, “I’m going to
    fucking kill you” Also @1:35 Jeremy is heard saying “he warned me, he was serious.”


    • whonoze says:

      I believe you are confusing Tom Owen with Alan Reich. It was Reich who attempted to determine what words were spoken in Lauer’s 911 call. Owen simply offered the (very poorly supported) analysis that the screams did not match GZ’s voice profile.

    • Mary says:

      wait! wait!! i’m confused!!!! who is jeremy? and where did this tape come from? is it from the night trayvon was murdered?

  59. cielo62 says:

    Your post is precisely why I DON’T really care much about gzs karma. Oh, he’ll get serious karma, I’ve no doubt. But THAT is not the same as our society SEEING justice.

    • Rachael says:

      I agree – he will get karma, God’s plan or any of those things you want to call it.

      Yeah, I’m worried about the next kid.

    • crazy1946 says:

      Hmmm, did I say good morning wrong? Perhaps I need to craw back under my rock till the coast is clear? Did I hear someone shout “incoming”?

      • cielo62 says:

        crazy~ It wasn’t a response to you. Did it post near you? SORRY! It was a general comment to the main blog entry. I certainly didn’t mean to shower you with shrapnel! 🙂


        • crazy1946 says:

          I suspected that it was Word Press doing it’s thing again. However I decided to have just a little fun with you to lighten up your mood just a little bit! My bad….. 😉

  60. crazy1946 says:

    Good Morning

  61. Rachael says:

    This whole thing still has me speechless. I am appalled. I want to do something, but what? I’ve signed petitions, I’ve gone to demonstrations downtown, but I don’t know what that actually DOES. Something needs to be DONE and I want to DO something, not just talk something, but make it different.

    • crazy1946 says:

      Short of armed rebellion what is it that the controlling interests in this nation can be forced into “real” change that allows all of the nations citizens to be equal! Equality not only in words, but in action also, it will do no good to pass laws that promise equal treatment, yet lack enough teeth to force their enforcement….

      • crazy1946 says:

        No, I’m not calling for armed revolt!…..

      • Malisha says:

        Not until whites really had something to FEAR from the Blacks they had oppressed for years did “civil rights” even begin to gestate. Civil rights did not come about because of the raising of consciousness; it came about because of the obvious expedient: NO LONGER WILL BLACKS ACCEPT THIS!

        Consciousness is not raised except among those who really MEAN to do right. Among those who really MEAN to do what they WANT regardless of the issues of right or wrong, equality or exploitation, what changes is simply the equation, and the equation is a very simple one:

        WHAT can I do and get away with? versus
        WHAT will have negative consequences if I do it?

        The Fogen trial has now returned us a GIANT STEP back from civil rights because it teaches that there is almost NOTHING a wrong-intentioned white person can do to any Black person (individually) that will have negative consequences.

        Just as slavery was replaced by emancipation which was then replaced by Jim Crow which was then somewhat modified by civil rights which was then re-modified by institutionalized racism and corruption, we are not making progress. We are making excuses and we are telling lies and we are making “exceptions” for anybody who can come up with a good “story” that is essentially this: WE ARE ENTITLED.

        As Fogen was entitled to kill someone HE in his sole discretion had determined to be “the suspect,” any such person is entitled to destroy any other person if the conditions permit. Certainly the conditions permit, in Sanford, Florida. But the lesson is that those conditions can permit anywhere in our country.

        20 years ago I was fond of saying, when I was on the “activist circuit,” that: “What we are doing to children, in our courts, will become the blueprint for what we will do to everyone, in our streets.”

        Damn, I wish I had been wrong.

        • crazy1946 says:

          Malisha: While I sit here and ponder your words of wisdom, I can’t help but reflect back upon this nation that we both are citizens of. We (collectively), as a nation, proclaim ourselves to be the land of the free, however that is a bare faced lie! At no time in this nations history has there been freedom for all of it’s citizens, actually that extends all the way back to the origional settlers (invaders) of this continent. All thru our history we have (as a nation) discriminated against various groups of people, due to race, heritage, or even financial status.
          You bring up this case as a major event in the racial divide in this nation, while I agree with that assessment, I think it is merely the latest event. I was very active back in the sixty and seventy’s movement to secure equality for all people, and I actually thought that we had made great progress toward that goal (at least on the surface). Then along comes the year 2000 and the political upheavel that came about. This, in my opinion, started to reverse the trend toward racial equality, as 911 happend and along with it came the rapid growth of Neo Nazi (sometimes called milita groups) orginizations who instantly pushed any idea of progress toward equality out the window. Fast forward to the year 2007 where out of fear the GOP encouraged there members to vote in the primaries as Democrats and to support Obama instead of Mz. Clinton, little did they realize when they did that, he would actually be elected! What a great shock that was to the great white GOP leadership, it even caused a new group to form within the party, now known as the Tea Party! Now fast forward to the last presidential election where you not only had the choice of a racist group of politicians from the Tea Party, you also had the opportunity to support a man that actually was a full blown racist is the style of David Duke, that being Ron Paul! This long winded post perhaps will give some people a little insight into how states like Florida have been allowed to be over run with political racists that have made a mockery of the very idea of Racial Equality…… When we the people (of all races) finally get enough and take control of our nation with the intent to actually allow equality amongst our citizens then we will then become a nation of free people…… Will this come about by force or by using the political process has yet to be seen…..

          • Girlp says:

            Tea Party formed by coporate intrest using and funding supremecist groups.

          • Malisha says:

            Thank you for this eloquent and studious post. It means a lot to me to hear from you, and others here, and it is a comfort no matter what is happening. I remember one psychiatrist saying: “Validation matters.” I remember the last line of “The Fixer”:

            “My name is Anton Bok.”

            We are here, we are trying, we are witnesses.

        • chills101 says:

          Malisha your beauty just pours out of your posts… I wish you were my neighbor.

        • sadlyyes says:

          Mal,i believe it is rich against poor,the cheneys of our country use $$$ for control,and then divide the races,religions and conquer us all

      • chills101 says:

        Crazy they think we’re crazy.

        • crazy1946 says:

          I may indeed be crazy, however I am not blind! I see things that they attempt to hide…. I refuse to be quiet and allow them to continue to commit the kind of atrocities that they intend upon my fellow citizens…..

    • We have to do those things in massive numbers to have any chance to turn this situation around.

      • cielo62 says:

        Watch this. It becomes very clear what the South fears…


        • crazy1946 says:

          A cartoon that expresses a large amount of truth! Good find…

        • bettykath says:

          excellent video. but it isn’t the south. it’s the white elitist culture throughout the country that’s so in fear of true equality and justice for everyone. people everywhere in this country are making money by having a slave class. the slave class is made up of those who look differently from white, mainly Black and Hispanic and middle eastern, but does include economically deprived whites as well.

          • cielo62 says:

            bettykath~ thanks for watching it. It’s a “kid’s” cartoon. But it ends up being bad for the oppressors. Too bad reality isn’t like this.


          • ladystclaire says:

            @bettykath I agree, racism is not only in prevalent in the south, racism is in all fifty states. also this all men are created equal is bull shit because, in this country ALL men/women are not created equal and they never will be.

            A lot of people who are always screaming about AA’s and any other race should go back to where they came from, well that cuts both ways and they damn well know it does. truth be known, the only people who have a right to be here and LIVE where they damn well please, are the Indians. AA’s “NEVER” asked to come to this country. when are they going to go back to from whence they came here from?

            How can you discover a country/new world that has been inhabited for “YEARS” by people who lived on this land for years and, have now been told where they can and can’t live on land that they were the sole owners of for generations.

            All men are created equal is very true in the eyes of GOD but, that is not now nor will it ever be true in the eyes of some in this country. yet, our government can see fit to invade other countries and tell them how they should treat their citizens, while they mistreat certain races of their own citizens.

          • believeinkarma says:

            No it is the racist culture that has always been there. People of all races saw the injustice to Trayvon.

            This time is different . Everyone is standing together except a loud racist minority.

            Don’t become like them and use stereotypes & generalizations.

            We need to stick together and be louder to make change happen. I am standing with the Fulton’ s/Martin’s and the Davis’. To get justice for their sons and that it never happens again. Don’t prejudge people like fogen.

            The greedy corporations and especially Walmart’ s business model. Taxpayers pay their employees benefits due to very low wages so walmart can increase their billions. It is all greedy American capitalism.

        • abbyj1 says:

          Cielo, Yes. It has always been based on fear of retribution, as your video clip points out. Those who have wielded power for so many centuries have no intention of losing their iron grip, and their greatest fear is that the economic, physical, and psychological violence they have visited upon “others” will come back to destroy them tenfold.

          Yes, Cielo, this is what they fear: that “equality” means that they will be held responsible for their centuries of inhumanity against minorities and women. Many of us wondered what would happen—what the push-back would be like—when privileged white males woke up one day to find themselves “just one more minority.” Now we know: they will fight to the death.

          • believeinkarma says:

            And become a smaller minority.

          • a2nite says:

            Why? They haven’t paid us yet. They’re afraid of losing white supremacist power.

            Where are we to go? This is our home & part of the true evil inhumanity of slavery was separating us from our families. We don’t know who we are. That magical place of Africa means nothing. That was done on purpose as part of the dehumanizing
            process of evil slavery in America. Maybe since white people are afraid we should live apart. You all are too armed & dangerous & it would be easy to exterminate us. White racist
            men are delaying the demographic shift by cheating with elections.

    • whonoze says:

      George Zimmerman is not and has never been very important in the larger scheme of things. What matters are the social issues this case raises. The specific outcome of GZ’s case itself is all but irrelevant to the bigger picture. How that outcome is interpreted, what meanings and actions stem from those interpretations matter very much. ‘History’ will be the judge, and that history is now very much under construction, very much a “contested terrain.” In fact, our work has now passed from the relatively trivial to a much more significant level.

      One thing we all can do is engage in the struggle over what this case means, how it will be remembered and interpreted. Collect and connect enough “talk”, and you have a movement, and movements can change things.

      In that regard, though the trial is over, our culture’s understanding of the Martin/Zimmerman case remains open.

      Thus one thing we can do is dig into what happened, and how the relevant social/political/legal institutions functioned in this case.

      How did the case come to be presented by prosecutors who failed to present a thorough picture of a central claim of their case (“GZ is a liar!’)?

      How did GZ come to be tried by a panel filled with jurors prepared to take GZ at his word, and to consider TM as a thug, and “one of them”?

      Why did Judge Nelson feel compelled to issue jury instructions that all but negated any possibility of conviction?

      How, most importantly, did the laws leading to those jury instructions get placed on the books?

      What is most definitely NOT over is the struggle over gun legislation in general, and ‘Castle Doctrine’ laws in particular. The NRA and ALEC want to EXTEND SYG into even more states, and will fight tooth and nail to keep those laws from being repealed or cut-back in the states that have them now…

      What is NOT over is the question of how many more Travons and Zimmermans are going to have tragic meetings in the future. And how THIS case is understood as we move forward is going to matter very much.

      Hopefully, the Martin family will pursue some kind of civil litigation, via which the corruption and racism of the SPD might be exposed. Hopefully, the pressure Rick Scott is under right now for his support of SYG might lead to a deeper investigation into how the conservative politics of the SAO may have influenced their ultimately ineffective prosecution of GZ…

      “In the name of Trayvon Martin, we are trying to make sure that kids feel safe and this does not happen to somebody else’s teenager, or somebody else’s child, and somebody else gets away with murder. We want to make sure that these laws are changed, We want to make sure that people are listening to what happened during the trial, and even now, and we make positive change.”
      — Sabrina Fulton on ‘Politics Nation’ 7/18/2013

      Or, in the words of Joe Hill, “Don’t mourn. Organize!”

      • Rachael says:

        You are so very right. It really has little to do with GZ and EVERYTHING to do with society – a sick society that honest to God, I had no idea existed the way it does.

        And it goes beyond skin color or what people wear – y’all heard about the deaf people at Starbucks who were mocked?


        These things should not happen here. This is AMERICA, supposed to be the greatest nation, yet children are killed because and deaf people are mocked?

        And then there is the whole internet phenomenon – the whole bullying thing and the what I’ve seen with this trial.

        What has our society come to? What is the future for this nation?

        Trayvon, than you for opening my eyes. How I wish you didn’t have to die to do it. I am hereby devoting my life to finding ways no other child should be allowed to die at the hands of sick, sick people, and that includes the hands that use nothing more than a keyboard.

        Don’t give me that fucking shit about concrete. Look what keyboards do. Look at what they did here.

      • believeinkarma says:

        Exactly. You organize and there are many actions that can be taken. Just don’ t give up when walls come up. Find a way to climb them and keep on going.

      • ladystclaire says:

        Jodie Arias was convicted of her crime of murdering her ex-boyfriend and rightfully so. But, I’m more than willing to bet, that some of those people who cheered for her being convicted, are now some of the ones, who are cheering for Fogen’s acquittal of murdering a child in cold blood.

        There are some GOD awful people in this country and, we all know who I’m talking about. in their mind’s eye as well as their hearts, Trayvon’s life meant nothing. even though he got into some mischief but, what 17 yr old hasn’t? he was just a normal kid who was coming of age. and for those who accuse him of making lean, it’s sounds to me that they make it themselves, since they know the ingredients one needs in order to make it.

    • Deborah Moore says:

      Good Morning, Rachael.
      I hear you loud and clear. After reading C-S’s currently posted chapter of Frog Gravy, I remembered that I had recently found out about a juvenile detention facility in my home town.
      This morning I looked up their web site and am in the process of deciding how I can help those kids.
      I’ve found an attorney, online, who defends these kids. He was previously a Juvenile Prosecutor and I’m going to call his office this morning. ‘Spose I have to wait until 10:00 am. I’m hoping to hook up with an organization that advocates for these young inmates. I’m also going to call Father Boyle’s office (http://www.homeboyindustries.org/) to get some networking information. I’ve seen Father Greg Boyle speak twice about his outreach programs and his story is very inspirational.
      Remember, Racheal, each journey starts with a single step.
      Best of luck finding an outlet from your frustration and a way to make a Real Difference.

      • Beverly says:

        Good for you. I will be very interested in what you learn/decide. I also affirm, and not to be Pollyanna, that something good can come out of this mess. We have seen energy, outrage, and the dignity of the grieving mother of Trayvon….voices are coming together and being heard. Not over ’til it’s over; and it’s not. Thanks.

    • Nef05 says:

      Hi Everyone. I hear ya, Rachael. The violence of my own feelings/reaction (I broke dishes, cursed, screamed, yelled and cried like a baby) has kept me off the boards this past week. I couldn’t be sure it wouldn’t leak into my posts, and I want to be proactive and not simply reactive. I have taken the same steps you have, and plan to attend tomorrow’s rally/vigil, at the US/DOJ building here. Nevertheless, it’s extremely frustrating, for many of us.

      I can’t really answer your question. I can say that you are most certainly not alone, in your questions. And maybe that fact, along with the steps we are taking collectively, can help us to effect change. Let me put it this way… I suspect the steps we are taking had BEST to effect some changes, because if they do not we come to a natural impasse.

      If utilizing our legally (and human) rights to protect our young do not effect change, I suspect that we will make them in what ever way is necessary, and I don’t want to see it get to that point. If they think we will be placated or time will pass and draw our attention to other matters, they will find they are mistaken.

      Florida (powers that be) made a very bad choice when they decided to protect their “privilege” by excusing a guilty child murderer. They could have done the right thing and locked up an obvious murderer, and “placated” millions, and “showed” the WORLD (writ large) that there’s a least a lip-service propensity towards equal justice under the law. I believe it’s a choice they will come to regret, sooner rather than later.

    • Trained Observer says:


    • Lonnie Starr says:

      “Thanks for nothing Mr. Dershowitz!”

      Instead of coming at us with a technical diatribe, that sounded more like a racist rant, than a matter of law. You, in your expertise as a legal strategist, should have been able to figure out more.

      Like for instance: Had Angela Corey gone to the Grand Jury, she would have had to overcome gz’s self defense claims. You, not only should have been able to figure that out, but you should also have been able to tell us how she would have been able to do that.

      You would have known, for instance, that the way to overcome gz’s self defense claims, would have been to assert Trayvon Martins own rights in the matter. Like the right not to allow an unknown stranger follow him to his house. A house that offered no protection at all, but did have another young helpless child there and a potential second victim.

      Funny that both you and Angela Corey stopped just short of asserting that Trayvon Martin had any rights at all, eh? Could it be that, once you figured out what would have had to come next, if she had gone to the grand jury, you realized you didn’t want to assert any rights for Trayvon? You had a completely defensible position yet you chose to abandon it, rather than go forward and explain that the victim also had rights! Which, of course, was the underpinning of the whole idea of needing a grand jury in the first place.

      The main reason for the failure at trial, was specifically that no rights of Trayvon’s were ever asserted. Which, of course, was the only way that a trial could fail to convict. Since, if gz was causing Trayvon to fear for himself, gz was breaking the law! So that the puzzle became: “How do we file charges against gz, without asserting any rights for Trayvon?” The answer, that allowed the trial to fail, was; go with a criminal information!

      That allows them to assert that the only crime was Murder 2, without having to mention that the defendant had committed another crime in pursuit of committing that crime. But that, and the fake tears shed over the loss, don’t sell, because these are experienced legal professionals, who deal with these kinds of subtleties, time after time. over their decades long careers. How could a Picasso, for example, not notice a spot of red in a field of yellow? Or a national heavyweight prizefighter, not beat a junior varsity boxer? Or, dare I say: An Alan Dershowitz, not beat and O’Mara and West?

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