Welcome to liveblogging day 7 Zimmerman trial (afternoon session)

Tuesday, July 2, 2013

Good afternoon:

Court will resume this afternoon at 1:30 pm EDT.

Chris Serino and Mark Osterman testified during the morning session.

Here’s the link to the livestream coverage.



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1,260 Responses to Welcome to liveblogging day 7 Zimmerman trial (afternoon session)

  1. diary73 says:

    Great news. I entered my name in the lottery to attend the trial tomorrow. Well, they called me back! She said I am not to use my iPad or iPhone, so will try to take good notes.

    • willisnewton says:

      please tell us where GZ is LOOKING all the time if you can see that.

      On camera, we see him making eyes in various directions but never can connect that with whether he looks at the jurors or the judge or that seal that reminds him of pizza.

      Also, please have lunch with BDLR and make him watch whonoze’s video. :/

      • diary73 says:

        Lol, Willis. I doubt if anyone will let me near BDLR.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Foggen was looking at the jurors, to see how the performances he has been doing for them, have been working. What he forgets about is that he has unguarded moments when his true self shines through. He doesn’t realize that is what is putting the jurors off.

    • My Forehead Tho says:

      That’s wonderful news. I’m really looking forward to reading your comments tomorrow. 🙂


    • cielo62 says:

      Diary- COOL BEANS!! Now behave! No spitting at MOM or West! No tacks on GZs chair!


  2. KA says:

    Off topic…but this made me tear up…


    “Vereen recounted a prior interview with Jeantel where she explained their bond, “she said he was one of the few guys that never made fun of me, about the way I dressed, about the way I talked, about my hair, about my complexion… about my weight.”

    Bless you Trayvon!

  3. willisnewton says:

    A good day for the prosecution but a bad day for the space time continuim theory proponents.

    Still unclear if the prosecution “gets” that Zimmerman chased trayvon with his car before chasing him on foot. Osteman himself spoke to this idea and Bernie seemingly let it pass un-highlighted.

    He seems to let a lot of things that could be favorable to his case fly by the jury when a question or two would really score points with the jury.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      Like how they spent all of.tbis time saying Zimmerman was bigger than Martin and MMA trained only to give the smaller Martin the ability to knock Zimmerman on his ass with one punch. Im absolutely LIVID.

    • riisey007 says:

      Attorney Darren Kavinoky is highly pissed about prosecution he said prosecution is like a boxer taking a dive. He thinks the interview with Hannity should have been played later so that Zimmerman would have to answer why he said what he said in the interview. The after dark how is awesome. The recreated community and just them recreating all of the events of the day is wonderful. The fake jury asks some really good questions. There was a red headed juror who said as dark as it was, how could Martin see the gun? true! another juror actually took part in the reenactment as Zimmerman, he layed on the grass with his head on the concrete the other male juror straddled him and he placed his hand over the guy playing Zimmermans mouth and took his other hand and placed it over his nose.

      The question came up, what as Zimmerman doing with his hands? Martin was only 158 lbs!! Now the big thing for me was when the entire fake jury voted NO!! Martin never touched the gun. The guy who played Zimmerman was asked why he voted no, he said because Martin was right handed and the gun was on Zimmermans right side, he said Martin would have had to reach over as a right handed person for the gun but not only that he felt that the way that Martin straddled Zimmerman and with all that Zimmerman says Martin was doing there is no way that Martin would have taken the time nor even think he had a gun. Martin supposedly was banging Zimmermans head, covering his nose, mouth and reaching with his third hand for a gun. Bull crap.

      I will be glad when Zimmerman is found guilty so that he can tell on Osterman and Taafe. These people are very curious to me.Why is it that they are so apt to clear George. Zimmerman seemed to be frustrated with Osterman even speaking. Something in the milk ain’t clean. If they did not put Zimmerman up to killing Martin I can bet you that Zimmerman knows that those 2 are opportunist who are using his arrest for money. Taafe is getting paid for all of his interviews and Osterman is writing books. Where is that 1 black friend and those black kids Zimmerman mentored?

      • Lynn says:

        I’ve been waiting for someone to actually get on the ground properly. Now we just have to get that into the courtroom.

  4. tashatexas77048 says:

    Since I’m so dumb let me allow you internet geniuses to school me.
    I concede that Dr. Rao was effective in hammering home the point that Zimmerman’s injuries were insignificant BUT A JURY COULD SEE THAT TOO.


    Their own witness, Rachel endured two days on the stand insisting her friend said get off and didn’t attack. Doesn’t this diminish her testimony? WOULDN’T A TAKEDOWN MOVE BY ZIMMERMAN BETTER ACCOUNT FOR ZIMMERMAN’S INJURY AND MARTIN’S WORDS?

    • disappointed says:

      tasha- Trayvon had every right to defend himself. A man followed him by car and then chased him on foot. She did not say he slammed his head she is saying it is cons. with bumping head on side walk. He could have bumped it with they were wrestling. The prosecutors are not going to ignore the injuries. BUT keep in mind Trayvon had the RIGHT to defend himself from a man who followed and chase him!

      • tashatexas77048 says:

        I understand that but she can’t say Martin caused Zimmerman’s nose to bleed.with a punch yet Martin had no blood on his hands. And they dont have to explain how, only.that what Zimmerman said is IMPOSSIBLE.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      She testified beyond the scope of her knowledge having never visited.the scene yet she could tell what kind of concrete impression would be on Zimmerman’s head from a video? And I still want to know how the right handed Martin caused injury to the left side of Zimmerman’s nose AND WHERE DID THE TWO PIN PRICKS COME FROM? Did Martin also bend over and bite two pieces of flesh from his nose? To mean the head abrasions can all be explained by a rolling takedown move? Wtf couldn’t she say.that?

      • tashatexas77048 says:

        There was no blood coming from his nostrils any got damn way but ONLY from those two pricks. How could Martin have done.that?????

        • tashatexas77048 says:

          I meant the right side of Zimmerman’s nose. If Martin is.right handed.the blow should connect.with.the left said of Zimmerman’s face. That dumb bitch sat.there and demonstrated a head on fist blow to Zimmerman’s face by Martin. WHAT GOOD CAME FROM.THIS.PURE SPECULATION????And damning SPECULATION at that?

          • tashatexas77048 says:

            Too many.typos to correct…

          • tashatexas77048 says:

            And finally, if you’re hit hard enough for your head to bounce on three sides that’s pretty damned hard lol. Just imagining.this foolishness cracked me up. The prosecution had a WONDERFUL DAY except for pure speculation by Dr. Rao. In fact, her hypothesis is as dumb as Fogens story. But I digress.

          • That’s not necessarily true. Depends on their relative positions.

        • Two sides to a story says:

          Rao’s testimony gives official credibility to the fact that Fogen’s wounds are insignificant and that he didn’t get punched or have his head slammed as many times as he claimed he did.

          The prosecution is exposing his lies and exaggerations step by step.

      • Lynn says:

        My guess is the recoil caused the rear sight on the gun to scrape the tip of his nose. This is a close-up of the two pronged sight. Coincidence? Nope.

        I also believe the lumps on the top of his head came from him whacking his own head with the gun. Would cause a slight lump and maybe a small bruise.

        It would also cause a perfect imprint of the gun on his scalp if he held the barrel of the gun and smacked it with his right hand.

        Reference these two pictures. #11 and #26

        The shadow of #26 around the trigger and grip match perfectly with the red imprint on his scalp near the laceration on #11.

        Also, #13 show the pin pricks.

        Who knows? Maybe the punctate is razor bumps from shaving his head. I don’t buy the concrete rash story either.

        • Lynn says:

          Oops! Meant to make that two posts. I’m in moderation purgatory. I’ll repost now. Sorry.

          My guess is the recoil caused the rear sight on the gun to scrape the tip of his nose. This is a close-up of the two pronged sight. Coincidence? Nope.

          I also believe the lumps on the top of his head came from him whacking his own head with the gun. Would cause a slight lump and maybe a small bruise.

          It would also cause a perfect imprint of the gun on his scalp if he held the barrel of the gun and smacked it with his right hand.

          • Lynn says:

            Reference these two pictures. #11 and #26

            The shadow of #26 around the trigger and grip match perfectly with the red imprint on his scalp near the laceration on #11.

            Also, #13 show the pin pricks.

            Who knows? Maybe the punctate is razor bumps from shaving his head. I don’t buy the concrete rash story either.

    • Nellie Nell says:

      Honestly, I think GZ bumped his lumpy head when he tackled Trayvon to the ground which was the “thump” that Rachel heard. Rolling around on the sidewalk and grass could explain the punctate on GZ scalp which is not consistent with slamming of the head. I do not believe that Trayvon ever laid a hand on GZ and only tried to escape, remember Trayvon was not a fighter. He did not fight his own peers so I am sure he would not fight a complete grown stranger that he found creepy. The CAC was following him and Rachel’s suggestion that he could be a rapist. That would scare anyone walking and minding their business but being followed in the dark.

      The nose sound more like recoil from the pistol to me.

      That is just my opinion about his lumpy head and empty head.

    • Tzar says:


      actually she never said that
      she said Zimmerman’s facial injuries could have come from one punch

  5. Puck says:

    I’m hoping the second of the state’s witnesses the flew in and who will have to stay overnight is someone from T-Mobile to introduce GZ’s texts. Hannity interview: GZ hadn’t heard of SYG; Professor: Oh yes he had; texts back and forth about how to pull off a SYG/self-defense claim. Of course, I’m speculating that the texts are important at all, but there’s a reason the phone records of both Trayvon and GZ were released last week.

  6. disappointed says:

    I know the defense is saying the blood did not come out of fogen’s nose until he stood up. Let me cut thru the bull shit. Whatever. What I do find interesting is the blood runs straight down nose to mouth and lip area. Why isn’t the blood from the nose running down his cheeks, mustache area? The blood near ear came from the back. It is my opinion that nose injury happened near the end of the struggle. Maybe gun went to chest area and Trayvon punched him or maybe gun hit him.
    Please do not recite the bull shit that it went into his throat. I am not an ignorant person so that shit is not flying with my b.s. detector. Thanks in advance. Oh and I really do want answers. 🙂

  7. Leisa says:

    Wanted to say thank you to all you good people. Been very sick and I think I will be meeting Trayvon before any of you. (No sympathy please) if he does not know of all of you he will. I have all of your names and will certainly pass them to him. Can’t wait to meet him and give him a big hug for all here. . Thank you again for being my rock for last several months.

    • Judy75201 says:

      Thank you.

    • Valerie says:

      God bless you Leisa…(((hugs)))

    • Ms.X says:

      Wow. I’m speechless. I pray your transition will be painless and I pray you will be ushered by a relative or friend who truly loves you. When my time comes I can’t wait to see my grandmother. I will be happy to be among a few generations of grands. It is so scary to the living, but I pray ypu won’t be afraid when your time comes. I hug you. (((((((((Leisa))))))))

    • Trained Observer says:

      Thank you, as well.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      May God bless you, Leisa, and make your transition gentle and peaceful.

      I send you my love and hugs.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I just wanted to come back, Leisa, and say Thank You for touching our lives with your goodness!

      • colin black says:

        Leisa . the true of heart an soul always find peace.

        Release witness wonders to never cease only increase.

        As your soul soars never to taste defeat as your heart always had a true an worthy beat.

        In this youl know an come to meet your saviour whomer will be there to greet.

        And I must stop now as Im GREETING =crying for real.

        bless you.

    • elle says:

      Godspeed, Leisa. Rest well.

    • Thank you, Leisa.

      I just said a little prayer for you and if you do pass, tell Trayvon we love him and we’re doing our best.


    • Mojo says:

      All our thoughts go out to you. If you see Trayvon, say hi to my brother as well. He’s the guy in a friendly argument with Trayvon over who’s better, Kobe or Lebron?

    • KA says:

      I will be praying for your family, and complete and utter peace for you!

      Blessings to you!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Have courage! I hope you’re not in pain.

    • Nellie Nell says:

      God bless you and yes, please tell Trayvon that I send my love.

    • ZCBest says:

      May God bless you and embrace you.

    • Nef05 says:

      Thank you, Leisa. May your transition be peaceful and may your family find comfort in your love.

    • Sophia33 says:

      God bless you!

    • type1juve says:

      God bless you Leisa. We are honored to have been graced with your presence.

    • elcymoo says:

      My hoodie’s up for you, too. Leisa.

    • Sabrina B. says:

      I don’t know if it is appropriate for me to say anything. I was not here for long and I don’t know your condition or ailments. I was not going to post anything because of that but, my heart is aching from reading your post and I feel inhuman if I don’t at least say that I am sorry and I hope that your transition is met will peace and pleasant thoughts.

    • willisnewton says:

      via con dios. I hope you do meet Trayvon because then you will know you are in Heaven. But I hope it’s later rather than sooner, and on your own terms.

    • Yorazigo says:

      I’m so sorry to hear your news! I’ve read your comments so many times over the course of this case, and you will be missed. Rest well and remember the love everyone here has for you. I wish you peace.

    • cielo62 says:

      Leisa- courage, sister. I will be holding your hands in spirit, thought and prayer. Travel in joy. Leave in peace.

      • Malisha says:

        Our lives are not counted in how many breaths we take, but in those moments that take our breath away. Which you have given us many times. Be well and fare well.

    • Lynn says:

      Can I use a quote from the movie Here On Earth…

      Sam: “I love this spot, it’s like heaven right here on earth, maybe that’s what heaven is, maybe we go through life collecting people and places we love and they become in our heaven and that’s where your mom is, she in her heaven surrounded by everything that she loves… including you.”

    • Cercando Luce says:

      Wishing you joy and ease. Admiring your courage and steadfastness and constance.

    • MedicineBear says:


      Thank you for blessing us with knowing you and your kindred spirit. You have been a rock for Trayvon and in the righteous fight for Truth and Justice. Carry our love on angel wing.

      We will miss your mortal postings here but will hold your blessed immortal spirit in our loving hearts. We treasure the gift of knowing you. Much love, Vicki MedicineBear

    • Eric says:

      wishing you well Leisa. keep the faith.

    • May the peace of God be upon you…

  8. Woow! says:

    Heeeheeehee you guys were right about Treeper giving MOM questions to ask witnesses. I just ventured over there to see what they were talking about and Lord behold

    “Dr. Valerie Rao – who the defense was trying to depose, but was unable to locate. From Jacksonville? What friggin’ value other than propaganda is her intent? What’s the backstory on her? How and what is the relationship between Prosecutor Bernie De La Rionda, and Angela Corey, to her. What is their prior association? Prior history? Prior cases?

    What can we find?

    One example: (Hat Tip Tara)”

    MOM should be ashamed of himself. He has a table full of law clerks (interns) to do his research but instead he utilize the services of an uneducated foolish conspiracy theorist.

    • Ms.X says:

      Gosh, I wish the prosecution would try it.

    • Puck says:

      So presenting scientific evidence is propaganda. This sort of thing simply confirms the theoretical model I conceived in my big Tea Party/Obama-era right-wing paper. They’re existing in collective phenomenological ‘reality’ of their delusion.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Yes they are, Puck. Very, very different mindset. What I find interesting is the occasional liberal or progressive among them – how would you explain that? They don’t line up ideologically on most other issues, but they share the same view of this case no matter how far-fetched it may seem. Closet racists, maybe.

        • Puck says:

          Or perhaps merely people who might have had an unpleasant encounter with a black person they found scary — perhaps a bona fide thug — and have always held on to that as a moment they recall when they see other black people. And this case, in a sense, is the trial of that black thug who scared them that one time. So they put Trayvon on trial, becoming Zimmerman supporters existing in a collective constructed simulacra of ‘reality’ in which they operate. That’s why they just can’t handle the facts, and say things like Dr. Roa’s testimony was “propaganda” and suggesting she a little sumthin going on with Corey and Rick Scott. Now, does this seem like a scenario that would happen in our reality? We’re not operating in their ‘reality.’ Also, consider their consistent rejection of all forms of scientific evidence in this case. Is that not akin to creationism? They construct their own ‘facts’ and re-package it as “intelligent design.” And they teach that as a SCIENCE.

          It’s much like how the Republicans and even the Romney campaign were stunned that Obama won. They really were. Romney didn’t even prepare a concession speech, and I believe him. Republicans were relying on ‘data’ from sites like unskewedpolls.com that completely unscientifically “unskews” legtimate polls. Think of all the pundits who were assured of a Romney slam-dunk? On Fox News, Karl Rove was disputing the results of Ohio even as the state — and the election — had been called for Obama.

    • Nellie Nell says:

      Wow, he is lower than low. I could not understand why he was attacking that women after hello.

  9. Sophia33 says:


    I asked this question at the end of the other thread. When a jury is sequestered in this day and age are they monitored when they use their cell phones? Are their cell phones taken away? Are they only allowed collective TV access? Is someone listening to their phone calls and visits with family? Are computers taken away? How do you truly sequester a jury in this day and age?

  10. Woow! says:

    Did DonWest leave his job as a federal public defender to represent Zimmerman? He left a paying job to work on a pro bono case…….Does that sound right to anyone b/c I do not seeing him leaving a paying job to work for free.

    • Sophia33 says:

      Big case. Book deals. Talk shows. Opportunity to be a talking head. Other big cases coming down the pipe win or lose.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Don’t know that he was federal.

    • Ms.X says:

      That explains a lot! Now you know why so many people hate the public so-called defender. You only take them because you have absolutely no other choice, and you know when you have them you’re going down. Skeletor jumped his boney self out of loserville & onto the gravy train.

    • Nellie Nell says:

      I could have sworn he said he is working for $350 per hour and MOM $450 per hour but he did not understand why the difference. They were banking on the quick loot GZ made with his website. They must have had eyes the size of saucers when they learned about that defense fund raking in that kind of dough.

    • Malisha says:

      No sense of shared sadness. A kid is dead. No sense of normal human sorrow. A kid is dead, hey let’s get ice cream and celebrate. Moral bankrupts!

  11. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    The signatures for Rachael are over 20,000.

    • Woow! says:

      Good b/c I signed a petition last night for Rachel…don’t know which one but I signed it.

    • Valerie says:

      I signed…that nasty West needs to be publicly reprimanded and brought down a notch or two. He should have not listened to the CTH and just did his job in a respectful way for RJs limitations instead of trying to humiliate Rachael for the Treehouse sake. Yes she has her limitations, but she is hurting and I wish I could do more.

  12. sparger says:

    Is it normal to challenge testimony you know about at the trail. Shouldn’t they have moved to suppress this earlier. If I was on the jury I would be ready to strangle all of them.

    • Rachael says:

      The jury likely knows nothing about it. They just know like the judge said, there are some matters they have to take care of.

      • crazy1946 says:

        If MOM/West had not spent more than a year giving press conferences and actually prepared for the trial, they would have known about this evidence! Did you notice West during the conference at the bench digging thru and discovering evidence? He just now realizes that Trayvon was wearing that big button, he wrote down the evidence number from it. I would not allow this team to represent me in a parking ticket case, I would probably receive the death penalty for illegally parking……

        • Ms.X says:

          Yeah, but the prosecution isn’t that much better. Both teams are titans of mediocrity. We’re watching the clash of the titans.

    • KateW says:

      This is why OMara wanted to extend the time for starting trial because he was not prepared, despite having ample time to do so. So perhaps this was his strategy to challenge evidence as it is brought forth.

  13. whonoze says:

    Bill S. notes that all the sidebars are being transcribed by the court reporter, and will be included in the official trial record, but that will not be made public until after the trial.

  14. Trained Observer says:

    Is court to be dismissed until Monday? Or will it be in session on Friday?

    • Trained Observer says:

      If court operates on Fourth of July, that’s a ton of overtime for Seminole County employees.

  15. Sophia33 says:

    I wonder what the talking heads are saying?

  16. Court appears to have recessed until 8:30 tomorrow morning when Judge Nelson will hear additional argument on the defendant’s community college records and two applications for employment as a cop.

  17. YQ says:

    i think it was a good day for the state. i didn’t watch the whole thing but it’s starting to seem like all that evidence is weighing down on the defense.

  18. Sabrina B. says:

    Yay NBC.com did not go out once today.

  19. Judy75201 says:

    What happened? Just got back from attending to work.

    • whonoze says:

      The State brought in their own ME (not from Seminole Cty.) to discuss GZ’s lack of significant injuries. IIRC her term was “inconsequential.” MOM crossed her at great length to try to establish that the marks on GZ’s head could possibly maybe be consistent with his story of multiple blows and head-banging.

      So the defense now can’t say GZ’s life was in danger, but they can still claim he thought his life was in danger. I’d guess the question of whether any such fear would have been “reasonable” per the self-defense standard will be left for closing arguments. Prof. Fred would know better about this, of course.

  20. groans says:

    West should have just stayed in his seat. He looks silly up there fondling evidence and smiling.

  21. Sabrina B. says:

    What is West doing over there by the evidence?

  22. jo says:

    why were we able to hear the arguments about the school records earlier ….

    • Ms.X says:

      The state wants to submit into evidence fogens college transcripts showing that he has taken criminal justice classes where he learned about interrogation techniques & SYG law. They want to present the professor who taught the class in question in which fogen received an A, as well as portions of the textbook pertaining to same. They want to submit fogen’s application to become a police officer in VA in 2009, which was rejected, & his application to ride along with the police in 2011 in Sanford, FL

  23. Woow! says:

    I had to take a conference call. Someone please tell me what I missed.

  24. Two sides to a story says:

    Looks like Fogen’s freedom might be slip-sliding away

  25. DruDo says:

    Fogen is always wiping his nose on his sleeve. Disgusting.

  26. Dave says:

    If Trayvon had grabbed the gun when it was in the killer’s holster it would have been either by the grip (which wouldn’t yield usable prints ) or by the rear of the slide. the only parts of the gun protruding from the holster.

    • pat deadder says:

      Maybe Trayvon tried to grab the barrel thingy or whatever you call it to try to save his life.

  27. crazy1946 says:

    looks like the evil spawn problem will now be addressed?

    • Sophia33 says:

      Is that what this sidebar is about?

      • crazy1946 says:

        Possibly? You might notice that West is no longer participating in the discussion….

        • Sophia33 says:

          Yeah, I just commented on that. He has been kicked from the adult table.

        • Sophia33 says:

          I’m expecting that tomorrow.

          • crazy1946 says:

            I guess we will know soon enough, right? I actually hope I am wrong, West is one of the best assets that the state has for the conviction of the Fogdoit….

        • Sophia33 says:

          I expect West will be rushed to the hospital sometime tonight with a bad case of “Spawnitis”

          • crazy1946 says:

            The bad part is that the evil spawn and their father will not accept blame, it will be the state that is at fault for having caught them in their little game.. People like them never actually accept responsibility for their actions, much like the Fogdoit was forced by a child to commit murder….

        • Sophia33 says:

          True about being an asset to the state. Maybe we will get another knock knock joke in closing?

  28. YQ says:


  29. breelee says:

    Its weird to think that fogen so wanted to be in this legal element, and now he is the center of attention on the wrong side of the law. I sometimes see such an envious look on his face when he looks at accomplished witnesses. Trayvon death is beyond tragic, but I’d bet more lives would have been ruined if fogen had ever been in a position of power.

    • MichelleO says:

      I think it’s strange that the only criminal that used a gun and killed someone was a member of the so-called neighborhood watch.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Definitely. Of course, he probably wouldn’t have made it to any position of power. Maybe a paralegal, but that might have been a reach for him.

    • Ms.X says:

      I agree & have observed the same. He wants to be the 3rd gen zimmerman in the criminal justice system. I ray that somehow he is barred forever. He is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

  30. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Did any of you feel like saying to MOM today:

    That is SR, sir.

  31. Sophia33 says:

    What is this sidebar about?

  32. whonoze says:

    Bill S. says that this witness just lifted the prints, but didn’t analyze them, so she’s just up to establish the necessary “predicate” for the significant expert testimony to come later.

  33. jo says:

    did they ever ask serino why he wanted to lay charges…did that ever come up (the 2 drafts)

  34. yellowgirlnc says:

    Am I missing something? What does the lack of prints mean?

  35. Deborah Moore says:

    Well, that was unexpectedly short.
    Someone pooping out, too tired to tangle?

  36. YQ says:

    O’mara may have fell into a trap because we know GZ holstered the gun immediately after shooting Trayvon.

    • Sophia33 says:

      At least that is what GZ says.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Not quite. He says he holstered it when he saw Ofc Smith. Ofc. Smith arrived 3 minutes after the shot. gz got up after the shot and walked north to the tee, where Jon Manalo met him and took the picture, then they both walked back to the body and that’s when Ofc., Smith came up to them, gz then holstered his gun.

        • lurker says:

          In the walk-thru he says he holstered it before he spread Trayvon’s arms.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Yes, in the walk thru he leaves things out, in his effort to make it seem that everything happens right there near the T. But Manolo says he came around the house and saw gz walking towards him on the north walkway. It was there that Jon took the picture. But when Smith arrives he finds them near the body. gz says in his statements that he holstered the gun when he saw Ofc Smith approaching him. So, he left all of that out in the reenactment, because he didn’t want to admit that he’d walked from where Trayvon was, north to the T and then back again.

            Probably because he doesn’t want us to know that he dropped the little flashlight then. It was on and Jon didn’t see it, so foggen must have dropped before he followed Jon back to the body.

            gz is telling lots of lies.

  37. Cercando Luce says:

    If O’Mara wishes to argue that a latent print on firearm was destroyed by exposure to rain, he’s saying that firearm was outside of holster, exposed to rain, long enough to be destroyed thus.

    • IMBack says:

      the gun was protected under GZs jacket so it was only exposed to rain when he shot Trayvon then he holstered it back under his jacket.

  38. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    No check for prints on the can of tea?

    • roderick2012 says:

      YAHTC, I have always believed that George took the can of Arizona drink and Skittles out of the bag after he shot Trayvon and planted them inside Trayvon’s hoodie pocket so he could claim that Trayvon used the can of Arizona to strike him in the head.

      But there are at least two problems with that 1) With everything else George stated Trayvon did to him in that short period of time, it would not have made sense logically or timewise for Trayvon to have been able to put the can of drink into his hoodie pocket
      2) If Trayvon had put the can of drink and Skittles in his hoodie pocket why was the 7-11 bag next to his body? Meaning if Trayvon was going to get rid of the bag because he wanted to confront George and have his hands free the 7-11 bag should not have been close to his body which proves that Trayvon was still holding the bag when George attacked him.

  39. The lift was from the slide on Zimmerman’s gun, but it had no value for identification purposes.

  40. disappointed says:

    the slide? Are you saying Trayvon grabbed the slide when the gun was pointed at him?

    • Nellie Nell says:

      I still can not grasp how Trayvon could have seen that gun in the dark while mounted on lumpy lump CAC when the gun would have been along his leg and behind is ass. Sliding his hand down the chest of CAC is crazy talk. I just can not grasp that and hope that someone, maybe the gym instructor, will be able to clean that mess up. It has never made sense to me and to announce “You’re going to die tonight” with no weapon is nuts. The dumbest idiot would not threaten to kill someone after seeing their gun on their person. Ridiculous

  41. Two sides to a story says:

    Looks like simply establishing no other prints on Fogen’s gun. OM wants to establish it could be handled by several but not show up.

  42. lurker says:

    Apparently useable prints are seldom found on guns.

  43. Nef05 says:

    Here we go with the “what ifs” and “is it possible?”

  44. Two sides to a story says:

    Go girl. Another she-bang.

  45. lurker says:

    I wonder if they are going after the prints/lack of prints on the gun.

    Anyplace else where there might be some prints that might prove something?

  46. Mary says:

    when you close your eyes, attn. guy sounds just like kevin costner.

  47. whonoze says:

    She speaks to the jury, not to the lawyer, which strikes me as a good thing.

  48. disappointed says:

    finger print on the button?

  49. Kristen Benson is a latent print examiner.

  50. disappointed says:

    latent prints! this will be good.

  51. Defense whines and wants more time. Judge Nelson is going to give them until tomorrow.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      Not surprised. Smh.

      I look for them to enter an early motion to dismiss based on Rao’s testimony. Feeling sick again.

      • cielo62 says:

        tasha~ again, you are SUCH a blithering idiot. The BEST testimony of the day and you think it’s bad. What? You’re a ZIDIOT? Well I thought so! Your blog is further down, yes, several miles down the nearest sewer. Ciao!


      • Puck says:

        WTF in Rao’s testimony could possibly lead to a dismissal of the case? Saying “it’s possible” to a hypothetical?


    • Sounds a little biased, but ok. But she’s just simply being more than fair.

    • lurker says:

      Thanks–I missed the fireworks and couldn’t figure out what was happening.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Exluding the mediocre and sub-par grades from other courses, it doesn’t sound like she’s leaning the Defense way. Giving them more time to convince her. No time for ice crem cones tonight.

    • ks says:

      Ok. JN is being more than fair. In this instance, I don’t mind because there’s nowhere for the defense to go because the class information is clearly admissable and I like that MOM and Co have to waste time prepping another half-a$$ed argument/motion.

  52. Ms.X says:

    It looks like omara’s legion of paras are out looking for facebook pages and tweets.

  53. Sophia33 says:

    I wish JN would tell the defense if they aren’t ready, then they lose out. They keep pulling this, “We’re not prepared nonsense”.

    • groans says:

      What happened?
      No decision on criminal justice course and/or professor?

      • Sophia33 says:

        No decision. Defense whining about not being prepared.

        • pat deadder says:

          Defense whining about not being prepared. Could be they’re hoping the Professor has to leave.

          • Nellie Nell says:

            See, I thought he was leaving the country or something and would be gone for an extended period of time. That there was a small window of time to put him on the stand which was heard by the court after jury selection was complete. Someone said he was available today for testimony which I understood, but I suggested that the defense was stalling so that it would be time for him to board his plane. The defense should have been investigating or having someone doing it for them instead of having ice cream cones!

  54. gbrbsb says:

    Anyone have the link for the State’s recent discovery of the 27th June with the videos from Sam’s, Khol’s and Lakes Edge videos and a load of documents apparently

  55. Donna says:

    omg what did I miss? I had to go into a 3 hr meeting…what, what, what did I miss?

    I’m dying here!

    • GZ hopped up in a perry mason moment and said “I did it, and if I didn’t do it this is how I wouldn’t have done it”

    • Mary says:

      the state’s medical examiner basically put zimmerman away with her testimony. “insignificant abrasions” etc.

      • cielo62 says:

        Mary~ Thank you. Please explain that to cement head Tasha, who seems to think that Dr. Rao has given gz the case.


        • tashatexas77048 says:

          We can look with our eyes and tell they were insignificant, DUH! His own PA said as much so how the holy hell does she go from obvious facts to PURE SPECULATION that also corroborated at least part of the defendant’s story? I can’t be the only one here with common sense. And y’all acted an ass about my comments yesterday but BDLR came back today and did exactly what the heck I said he should have done yesterday. I know what I’m talking about.

          • ZCBest says:

            I can’t speak for everyone but my issue is with your delivery, which I personally perceive to be extremely negative. Not an issue of whether you were right about something yesterday. We all have our days when we are right. What I would love to see from you is more of an open dialogue that does not come across as so pessimistic. On this blog we seriously try to be uplifting, not sugar coating, but we tend to look at the glass as half full. The half empty perception is certainly thought provoking but we have the world to contend with. Not really looking to have to do all of that in this community of people.

            That is all.

          • cielo62 says:

            ZCBest- you are do right. Now I must follow my own advice and not be so antagonistic although its hard. Emotions run high in we white Hispanics! 😉

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • Puck says:

            Beyond a reasonable doubt doesn’t mean beyond a shadow of a doubt. The proponderance of the evidence that Dr. Rao examined and assessed is that these were minor, non-life-threatening injuries, and she shot down the lumps on GZ’s head as being anatomical.

          • cielo62 says:

            Tasha- Bernie would have done what he planned to do even without your wooden nickel of advice. Sheesh! You must be some kind of deluded to think that Bernie is taking YOUR “expert” advice about the pacing of this trial! So it’s”possible”” many things are possible. What GZ said is impossible at that is all she needed to prove and did.

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

  56. Tzar says:

    So let’s talk about another problem George has
    -George says he was screaming as he was swallowing blood
    let’s say we accept that for now
    can he explain how none of it was sprayed or splattered onto Trayvon
    who he claimed was right on top of him

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Ooooooh. Good one!

    • jo says:

      yes and should have been coughing

      • lurker says:

        That’s what the ME said too.

        O’Mara tried to push her to say he would have just swalled it.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      That would have been something for the pathologist to examine I would think…her testimony would have been more more effective if she had said that if there is none of Zimmerman’s blood on TMs hands and sleeves then that again proves there was no beating. Zimmerman would have bled during this attack, particularly the repeated punches and pressing on his nose.

      Done. This punch and cement bashing still has my blood boiling.

      • Ms.X says:

        Tasha, you & I have the same issues. I think the prosecution is being WAY too shallow & superficial. They need to be spelling things out explicitly for this jury. Yo’d think they wouldn’t make the same mistakes as the casey anthony prosecutors, but here they are making the same mistakes.

        Even just now with the latent print analyst, they should have asked her t, or some how summed up the reason why she just testified and the significance of it. If I had a $million for every missed opportunity….They are all we have to get justice, but I wish we had better.

        • Cercando Luce says:

          You can’t say prosecution never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity– but Coach Prof can tell us what play is on the field.

        • cielo62 says:

          Ms. X~ I’m disappointed in you, siding with tasha. Bernie has been a top notch attorney for over 25 years. His record is impressive. We on this blog have dissected this evidence for over a year. The jury only has a few weeks to hear it, comprehend it and make a decision based on that. Piling a tsunami of facts all at once will only confuse the jury and make it far more difficult to place events in sequence and assign value to significant bits of evidence. When you build a house, you start with a strong foundation. Doesn’t look like much especially when naysayers are screaming for the roof and the chimney. BUT it’s the only thing that will keep that house standing for years. Same here. Slowly the prosecution is building key bits of the story. Already they’ve destroyed gz’s lies about the “attack.” Already they’ve destroyed the fallacy of ignorance over SYG. Already there is the understanding that gz really really wanted to be a cop, had a weapon, rode around in the dark while armed, used cop terminology. Just be patient. The walls and windows are next.


          • ZCBest says:

            as usual…i agree with cielo62. The walls and windows are next.

          • Nellie Nell says:

            I can see the building of the case and find their method better to follow for someone that knows very little or nothing at all about the case. I have you all to thank for that because I think I would have been the same way with wanting everything to be laid on the table all at once.

            Also, MOM and West the Pest are also helping the conviction with all their talking and trying to lead the witnesses to say what they want them to say. After a while, you can see the desperation. Today you could see it with the ME when MOM forced her to stop talking because he did not want her to say too much which would have been against their client. “Let me ask the questions!”, he snapped. His lack of respect for women will also turn off the jury.

            I think that the state is speaking volumes with their direct by keeping it simple, letting MOM run his trap and then coming back to straighten out MOM bullshit.

            I have not courtroom experience but you all have and continue to, educate me which helps me keep my faith.

            Can’t thank you all enough!

          • PiranhaMom says:


            Check the pattern: Trasha spouts off — ALWAYS bashing the prosecution, Miss X chimes in, an echo of Trasha.

            These are trolls sent to this site, with instructions to say everything great about Professor Fred, vow undying love to Trayvon and his family, crib theory that was developed over a months of research and analysis by Fred’s students so they can look knowledgeable – and DEMEAN and DEBASE the prosecution’s strategy and efforts.

            And these two babettes aren’t the only ones who showed up as soon as the trial started.

            Treepers are accustomed to O’Mara’s constant checking in, so Treepers think that Bernie and crew are checking in with us – as if they are clueless and unprepared. (Like fogen’s team is clueless and WOEFULLY unprepared. Lazy, too.)

            While I expect the prosecution has had staffers poring over our work the past year, Bernie and crew are professionals – and were successful prosecutors long before this site existed.

            The prosecution doesn’t need to come here for advice mid-trial..
            The prosecution doesn’t come here for reassurance mid-trial.
            The prosecution is not going to be demoralized if Trasha and X spew their giddy vitriol over this site. The prosecution doesn’t have the time for trolling dustballs. The prosecution is busy winning this case.

            We shouldn’t waste any time responding to dustballs, either.

            They are treeper trolls ON ASSIGMENT to disrupt us.

            Just ignore them.

          • cielo62 says:

            Pirhanamom- sound advice. Can I abuse them for fun? 😉

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

      • Puck says:

        Whether Trayvon had blood and/or DNA on him is BEYOND THE SCOPE of her examination and testimony. She did not examine Trayvon. She is not one of the CSI-type forensics people. She’s an ME who looked at the GZ photos and testified that the preponderance of evidence (which she stressed at least twice), based on her expert opinion, is that the injuries were minor and not life-threatening.

        • Nellie Nell says:

          And then slick ass MOM goes into how no injuries are needed, but he did have some. The way he keeps holding up those dumb pictures and slamming them on the edge of the desk is so freaking dramatic. “Have you seen this picture?” thump.

          How many time do he think he has to do that until he thinks the jury will catch on???? Gosh, he gets on my nerves.

        • PiranhaMom says:


          See comment addressed to Cielo, above.

          TrashTexas and Ms. X are agents provacateurs.

          Their assignment: bash the prosecution’s efforts and undermine the prosecution’s morale.

  57. Stormwatch says:

    The person who was the state senator and chairman of the Florida Senate Judiciary Committee who authored SYG in Florida says it does not apply to Zimmerman. He wrote an editorial for the Orlando Sentinel not long after the shooting.

  58. I have a crush on Goldie Taylor on MSNBC.

  59. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Has anyone seen any recent comment from Lonnie or Kindheart?

    • Rachael says:

      I thought I saw Lonnie yesterday. But I have a bad memory.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Thanks, Rachael.

        The last time I remember Kindheart posting here was when she had the flu.

    • cielo62 says:

      Lonnie checked in 10 minutes ago. IP outages in his area.


    • PiranhaMom says:

      @You all,

      I think Lonnie has some computer problems. Wouldn’t THAT fry you at a time like this!

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        U betcha, and all tech support could do is, tell me to do what I’ve already been doing. That and advise me that there’s work going on in my area over the next 48 hours. So I’ve been without service sporadically for a few hours at a time.

  60. crazy1946 says:

    While MOM and his client have been bringing forth details from a dead child’s life, one that his client murdered in what I consider cold blood, in an effort to slander the child’s reputation, suddenly when information that will expose the murderers lies and deceit they suddenly get all uptight? Hmmm, why is it not fair for the state to do what the defense has done since day one? I know, because my poor little client was forced to protect himself from the child who might have hurt him….. Yeah Sure…..

  61. breelee says:

    I don’t like putting down a persons appearance, but I cant help myself with Howdy Doody. When he stands and you see his whole body, I see a creepy mortician in a horror movie, a B horror movie. There, I feel better now and will try not to do this again. : )

  62. Woow! says:

    I am sick and tired of each time a bigot is caught saying or doing something racist the first thing out their mouth is I have black friends or I mentor black kids…. geewhiz

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Or they quote Martin Luther King Jr.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Someone should find those kids so that they can undo what gz did.

    • Nellie Nell says:


      I have wondered why those kids or the parents/guardians have never come to his defense. The only idiot that tried to run to his defense was that fake Oliver then he got his bubble burst and we have not heard from him since.

      GZ himself needed mentoring and monitoring.

      • lurker says:

        Well, first off, because they don’t exist, any more than George’s campaign to bring the cop’s son who beat up a homeless guy to justice. Hard to tell how much of this stuff actually comes from George and how much comes from Junior.

        But, if asked, I’m sure that the answer will be that they are afraid of the big powerful organized black community leaders who have it in for George.

  63. colin black says:

    Boyd says:

    July 2, 2013 at 2:48 pm

    he told Serino he did not want to be a Police Officer

    Yup sure did
    He said he worked with tough inner city kids rought toughties an they didn’t trust The po po

    So he cares so much for thease BLAHCK CHILDREN he mmentored
    He forgo the chance to jin ploce as then they wouldn’t trust him

    However all is not lost because now he has decided to be a JUDGE JURY AN EXECUTIONER


    Just the Judge part because as we all

    Know rohty toughty Black kids whom hate the po po


    The wold according to a dumb ass without a Scooby doo.

  64. Ms.X says:

    Dang, the lawyers on CNN are laughing at osterman like hyenas. Thats messed up. Bwahahaha!

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:


    • Sophia33 says:

      Really?! Oh, do tell! What are they saying?

    • Trained Observer says:

      Osterman: The finest friend Fogen has ever known. 🙂 😉 🙂

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      Osterman was pure gold for the State.

    • Woow! says:

      M. Osterman is an idiot. He got caught up in this mess just as the guy Shelly said Tracy called a MF.

      Interjecting himself in the beginning then writing that book for a quick buck was his first mistake. Mistake #2 was going on talk shows.

      Didn’t he say he did not have any contact with CAC after his second arrest. That means he was not aware of all the lies the defense team was coming up with prior to trial.

      The big question is, who has CAC had contact with since the second arrest. His closest friend did not have access to him.

      • jo says:

        he reminded me so much of zimmerman, the way you could just tell he was concocting a story he thought would fit the evidence and embellishing.

        • Beverly says:

          I have also kept wondering if Z is just not very bright; I do not mean to be unkind. He just seems sort of concrete and simple, in a way that seems sort of odd to me. Yet, sociopaths are often very bright….imho.

          • cielo62 says:

            Beverly~ No gz is not very bright. Probably with an IQ in mid 70s based on his speaking pattern. Simple sentences he can handle, but come on! “I had lots of time to reflect, but I had no time to reflect”?? His answers make no sense taken as a whole. Every group has a bell curve. gz is on the low end of a sociopath’s IQ standard.


          • Mojo says:

            IQ of 70 would suggest that GZ has mental retardation (I believe 80 or below is considered as such). The average IQ is 100. GZ is probably about average, which is to suggest that the average person is not all that smart.

        • Malisha says:

          “He had so many Black friends he could make his own march.”
          Yeah? Where are they?

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            They are out there marching in the “Invisible March For Foggen’s Freedom”. It’s a silent and peaceful march taking place in the minds of his supporters. Millions upon millions of imaginary blacks are marching in support of their hero foggen. You can’t see them because you refuse to use your imagination that way. Very, very prejudiced as MOM would say.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      I am not a psychologist.

      Is Osterman manic?

  65. jo says:

    so trayvons school records are relevant even though they have nothing to do with his killing, but poor george’s aren’t even though it is proof he knew exactly what to say and how to get out of it….

    seems to me the defense think that any evidence of guilt should not be allowed….waaaaaaaaaaah we want a new judge cause this one is being mean …..should have stuck to the first one….or second….too bad

  66. colin black says:

    any numerouligists what the significance of thease numbers if any?

    PS I could tel you all

    But you would have to wait a grahm plus one seconds .

    Have I just broke a guiness world record on PROFS BLOG

    A graham pus one.???

    digits of Graham’s number are …2464195387.

    my graham plus one last few digits are


  67. Nellie Nell says:

    So is the fast talking MOM stalling so that the Professor that was leaving town/country will not get to testify? I missed it because I am sitting at work trying to catch as much as I can! Grrrrrrrrr

    • crazy1946 says:

      Actually if I heard it right, the professor is there and ready to testify! Guess he decided the truth was more important than allowing a lie to go on and on and on!!!

  68. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Okay, to stay awake, I am going to find the youtube “Shout” and then do some dancing and exercise to it.

  69. Boyd says:

    I want it to be in evidence so Fogen can then say, “I missed class that day”.
    We got 4-5 people listening in at work, we all laughed at MOM’s attempt with the ME.

  70. ZCBest says:

    The hammer is lowering…can you see it coming? I can feel it!

  71. Court will resume at 4:15 pm EDT.

  72. Ms.X says:

    I wish they had information about fogen’s dog having police dog training.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Wouldn’t that be great.

    • Trained Observer says:

      That’s not to be confused with the ex-girlfriend’s dog that Fogen kicked ….

      • Nef05 says:

        I really wish someone would kick him, and I wish the jury could hear about the dog kicking. There are two jurors whose applications mention being animal lovers. I doubt any of them approve of kicking them. He’s a hateful POS.

        TO – did you get the link I posted for you yesterday, with Wolfinger’s letter .pdf?

        • Trained Observer says:

          Hi Nef — Yes, I did. Thank you. Am not sure that’s the doc I had in mind, but am pleased to have it for file. There may be another more telling one under seal … but I could be wrong about that. Again, thanks.

      • DruDo says:

        I’d send his fat butt to jail just for kicking the dog. Poor dog.

  73. Ms.X says:

    Finally, something that has omara running scared! I pray the judge allows it all in, though I don’t think she will allow in the rejected police officer application & the application to ride with officers.

  74. Recess for 30 minutes to allow the defense an opportunity to research and prepare for a put-up-or-shut-up moment on the admissibility of the four documents .

  75. Love Pork Roasts! says:

    What ever happened to the proffer requested by the prosecution regarding the door opened to GZ’s character?

  76. groans says:

    Will JN split the baby?

    • lurker says:

      Don’t think that she’s leaning that way.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      This has to be allowed right now to undo what Rao said IMO. It would show that FOGEN knew he didn’t have to kill Martin even if he was knocked on his ass but he chose to and he made it worse than what it was to cover up the fact that he killed out of want, not need. Depraved mind. Instigated a confrontation and then killed out of previous spite. We need the school records today.

  77. Sabrina B. says:

    So slimy.

  78. lurker says:

    Half an hour to look up some case law that the prosecution cannot impeach something that they have introduced themselves.

    • Beverly says:

      Is that what’s happening right now?

    • gbrbsb says:

      I wonder… I wonder if GZ told MOM about all these police and law courses and the many hours of MMA training ? He appears so soured up, “sucking lemons” as TSTAS calls it, he looks like he’s about to spit whatever out !

  79. MichelleO says:

    Now, I know why I don’t like West: He looks like my nasty old step-father, may he rest in pieces……

  80. Nef05 says:

    If he got an A in the class, it is presumed that he had an “Outstanding” understanding of the coursework. That’s the purpose of the grading system.

  81. fauxmccoy says:

    o’mara now putting forth concept that his client is a bad student.

    • gwynne says:

      I can hardly wait to hear what fogen’s professor has to say. We can only hope did a paper or two on something relevant to this case…fingers crossed!!

    • groans says:

      (Like, cutting classes, for example?)

      If he passed the course, I think he should be presumed to know the subject matter of the course!

      • fauxmccoy says:

        one would imagine. i’m thinking JN is letting this in while redacting grades in non-applicable subjects.

  82. colin black says:

    sit down an S T F U
    Your client opened the door an denies ever having heard of S Y G

    So get him up on the stand an explain to the jury that he has a real bad memory an stuff.

    nah give him a GRAHAM YEARS and he couldn’t find an argument.

  83. lurker says:

    OK–O’Mara is twisting in the wind, trying to negate the evidence before it is presented.

  84. ay2z says:

    “That’s their THEORY of the case… and they are ALLOWED TO PRESENT THEIR THEORY OF THE CASE”

    JN is going to let this in because she says “defense already put before the jury, that their client had no info on the self-defense laws”.

    Might be a half hr recess coming.

    • ay2z says:

      defense want NOW to proffer on whether or not defendant was present in class.

      Mantai says doesn’t matter if defendant want to claim irrelevant because he wasn’t in class that day, he had ‘access to the info’.

  85. Sophia33 says:

    MOM appears to think that if he could talk JN to death to get her to rule in his favor.

  86. MichelleO says:

    Kick ass, Judge!

  87. disappointed says:

    MOM is falling all over himself.

  88. whonoze says:

    STFU, MOM. Your client made a public statement against interest. The State didn’t create it. GZ did.

    • parrot says:

      AND he did it with a supportive MOM sitting right next to him.

      Will GZ appeal based on ineffective assistance of counsel?

  89. fauxmccoy says:

    mantei putting forth his position quite nicely.

  90. Two sides to a story says:

    OM looks like he’s sucking lemons again.

  91. I agree with Judge Nelson that other records and grades aren’t relevant.

  92. breelee says:

    Oh dear God. If I’m understanding it right, MOM is upset about his client saying he didn’t know anything about SYG on the Hannity show. Wasn’t he sitting right next to him? Gawd he’s a dork. Why’d he let him lie like that?

    • Trained Observer says:

      And now he’s in a dorky-dither because a professor is likely to say SYG is covered in a course Fogen took.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      no only was he right next to him in the interview, he had the opportunity to redact info on the hannity interview.

  93. MichelleO says:

    That’s right. Keep telling the jury that fogen knew about the SYG law.

  94. colin black says:

    GET carter get foggagge stat.

    yeee HAWWWWWW

    Just when foggage thought he was doing good an stuff


    Never heard of S Y G smirk

    duper delight from a dope.

    impeach his ass

    peach an foggagges ass are word that don’t belong in the same postcode.

  95. Ms.X says:

    Get out omara. your dumb, greedy ass is the one who took him on hannity for fund raising purposes.You opened the door.

  96. gwynne says:

    Surely she will admit this evidence. The jurors absolutely need to hear this. It would be unfair to them to force them to decide this case without this critical detail of his education. He KNOWS how to call, manipulate, and maneuver.

  97. Rachael says:

    Wonder if his paper was on self-defense LOL

  98. Sabrina B. says:

    Your client created that.

  99. colin black says:

    yup Prof Carte


  100. ay2z says:

    Judge N wants to know how MOM thinks this is a ‘fishing expediton’.

    JN says for fogen’s knowledge of investigation techniques, interview techniques, exhibit 180 is Hannity, Q about know about SYG and fogen said he did not know of it before.

    Therefore JN is going to deny the proffer…… courses that mr. z took in criminal justice or t’ords criminology degree, not like they are trying to introduce humanities classes.

    Coursework is not by ‘syg name’ in the course, it’s the law that’s covered.

    LOL, no one has handed the 4 exhibits to JN yet “If someone would like to hand them to me I will look at them.”

    She’s going to redacct a few things first…. like nonrelevant other courses and their grades, …. hmmm…. will she also not allow the proposed graduation date…

    “Criminal Investigation”– course of professor Pleasance (seems that might be the one on hiking excursion in NM– Mr. Mantai just said he has an update on that witness situation now too)

    “Criminal Litigation” — another course with section in workbook relating to ‘self-defense’ Prof Carter is in the wings waiting to be called.

    • ay2z says:

      Project ‘paper’? Interesting. Would like to read that if fogen wrote it, especially if there was a bibliography.

  101. disappointed says:

    Did MOM want the whole book entered because he did not think they could get it?

  102. colin black says:

    This is perfect exemplar off


    WooHOOO We gonna see foggage shool work
    How many gold stars you think he got?


    Id say zeroyee haaaa there in.

    • ay2z says:

      I’d be happy seeing documented proof in evidence, that he claims a degree that he never got.

    • PiranhaMom says:


      Fogen is not “hung” with his own petard.

      It’s “Hoisted on his own petard”

      A petard was a very small explosion, in its day.

      Fogen “hoisted by his own petard” is fogen blown off his feet by the force of his own unfortunate fart.

      As seems to be happening regularly in this trial.

  103. Two sides to a story says:

    Mantei has good finger rhythm.

  104. Ms.X says:

    They are trying to show him as a dumb ass Baarnie Fife who couldn’t cut it as a normal police officer and became a self appointed police officer. Bwahahaha!

  105. jo says:

    he may not have graduated but he still had a graduation party….given to him by his mentor

  106. gwynne says:

    fogen took criminal litigation! Score!!!

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      If this is allowed all that Dr. Rao said is forgiven!

      • Puck says:

        What did she say that needs to be forgiven? “It’s possible”?

      • fauxmccoy says:

        tasha — what in the name of all that is holy should be ‘forgiven’ by dr. rao’s testimony? it was excellent testimony for the state.

        you simply must read through archives to understand this process in order to make an intelligent comment. this is a legal blog, avail yourself of the wealth of resources the professor has provided.

  107. Trained Observer says:

    JN: I don’t understand when you say it’s a fishing expedition.

    MOM: Uh, well …,

    JN: It’s not a fishing expection. ..

    JN: I have not seen any of the proposed exhibits … If you’d like to hand them to me, I’d be glad to review them.

  108. lurker says:

    OH–and they found a course in which he got an A!

  109. whonoze says:

    JN recognizing MOM’s reductio ad absurdam.

    • Tzar says:

      he pulled a few in there
      most notably
      non sequitur
      Straw man
      that guy is a walking logical fallacy machine

      • fauxmccoy says:

        or as my college professor taught me in ‘argument and debate’ the “it’s not fair!” argument. how many times has he argued this one?

  110. Endless Summer says:

    There have been lots of posts about editorials, TV punditry and blogging that favor the defense. I wanted to take a moment to point out the NRA connection to this case. The NRA has been responsible for passing the SYG law in FL and for FL’s very lax gun laws. The NRA has a vested interest in seeing the defendant acquitted in this case, and making him appeared justified in taking Trayvon’s life. The NRA is well funded and well organized.
    Pundits on TV are paid to comment. They structure their commentary not necessarily on their own beliefs and certainly not on common sense, but to gain ratings. They are paid to talk and to drive ratings. They know that if they make controversial claims it will drive ratings up.

    When you see multiple comments on news or blog sites that are pro-defense or anti-Trayvon, remember that you are probably seeing a well co-ordinated PR campaign. The NRA is adept at these online campaigns, “Freeping” polls, and controlling the narrative in comment sections of popular news sites and blogs. When you see multiple comments repeating the same talking points posted in sequence, you can be fairly sure you are seeing sock puppets. One person with multiple accounts can make the comment section seem as if it is overwhelmingly for the defense, which is not always true.

    Keep the faith.

    • whonoze says:

      All those socks are causing abrasions on the public scalp.

    • Woow! says:

      We learned that tactic from the last presidential election 🙂

    • lurker says:

      Thank you for that reminder. You are right. The NRA is a very well-organized lobby. To the extent that it is very difficult to google anything objective and factual about the interaction of gun laws and crime. One has to go to a research database for searches to come up with anything scholarly.

      • cielo62 says:

        lurker and Endless Summer~ I think they were interested AT FIRST. But after Hannity, I think they decided that gz is NOT a prime poster boy for SYG. He was clearly the aggressor and SYG does NOT cover the shooter if s/he is the aggressor.


  111. colin black says:

    shakespearian irony a witch hunt on foggagge s prior acts an school records an his wann a bee cop status means nothing


    Sit down shut up its friggin well in you cant object

    And here is the GIFT


    Id call this a knock out punch

    he has floated like a butterfly

    An now B D L R Stingz like a bee

    aBOUT THE MURDER THAT WAS never at the

  112. Prosecutors filed a motion Monday in response to a photo defense attorney Don West’s daughter posted last week.


    SANFORD — Prosecutors have asked a judge in the George Zimmerman trial to conduct an inquiry into an Instagram photo of a defense attorney eating ice cream with his daughters, but the lawyer said Tuesday that it was unrelated to testimony in the case.

    Prosecutors claimed in their motion the photo was posted after defense attorney Don West’s tense cross-examination with prosecution witness Rachel Jeantel last week.

    The caption in the photo posted by West’s daughter reads “We beat stupidity celebration cones” and the hashtag “#dadkilledit.”

    Prosecutors said an inquiry was necessary “to ensure that witnesses and court proceedings are treated with respect and not as occasions for inappropriate jokes.”

  113. Here comes 4 hammers with the documents that are relevant to show that defendant knew all about self-defense and SYG, was a cop wannabe, and had enough legal knowledge to portray himself in the most possibly favorable light.

    They are relevant and admissible.

  114. gwynne says:

    good try mom. its not civics, it’s criminology. kinda different. 🙂

  115. disappointed says:

    He better stop the 6th grade b.s. MOM is pissing JN off.

  116. lurker says:

    And O’Mara cannot stop arguing.

  117. Sophia33 says:

    Flailing MOM

  118. Ms.X says:

    Damn, did omara just take the judges book off of her desk without permission?

  119. whonoze says:

    Let it in Debra!

  120. lurker says:

    Oh, oh. Sounds like JN’s gonna allow this.

    Too bad O’Mara.

  121. jo says:

    is the jury there? why are we hearing this arguing….i thought they turned on the mute when arguing about this stuff

  122. disappointed says:

    Haha lies are coming out.

  123. gwynne says:

    it’s not a witch hunt, mom, your client KNOWS the law, he KNOWS how to manipulate the system…he’s not an innocent civilian who is clueless.

  124. lurker says:

    Now O’Mara is trying the old if Zimmerman has to then Trayvon has to also.

    He keeps forgetting who is on trial.

  125. Tzar says:

    OMara is a dummy
    he makes arguments that are stupid

    • Nef05 says:

      Yes, he does. Considering the professor was on the deposition list since April, and presumably knows what he is to testify to, there is no excuse for O”Mara not to have his objections together, supported by case law, so they can hurry up and be overruled. He knows good and well this is relevant and admissible.

  126. Sabrina B. says:

    LOL MOm is trying to keep evidence out.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      he hasn’t had much luck so far… my magic 8 ball says ‘yes’ to the question ‘will the trend continue’

      my spidey sense says so too 😉

  127. gbrbsb says:

    If GZ’s head had been slammed against the RAGGED edge of the concrete path according to the angle it would have hit he would have had a broken wound on or near the lower ridge of his scalp, there is none meaning there is NO WAY his head hit against the side of the concrete!

    Further, John said he saw GZ (the one on the bottom) trying to rise up and what goes up must come down, so it is clear there was a struggle, in a struggle each person gets buffeted this way and that, GZ trying to detain Trayvon, Trayvon trying to get free, but that does not mean GZ’s head was purposefully being slammed against the concrete by Trayvon !

    The state should bring on MMA experts and work it out on the floor in front of the jury !

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      Thank you! There has to be another explanation.

      • gbrbsb says:

        Do you mean there “has” to be another explanation, or there “had” to be another explanation. Either could be, because I just put my theory, I’m not saying it is “the” theory… you know, like “the gun” 😉

  128. Ty Flair says:

    When O’Maraa brung up Miss Corey name I knew he was throwing smoke screen.

  129. colin black says:

    wow foggagge is getting busted on knowlage of S Y G

    m o m an he look stunned a think skellators in shock

  130. colin black says:


    For foggagge the light at end of tunnel is express bullet fastest train in the WORLD.

  131. gwynne says:

    The jury needs to hear this!!!!!!

  132. disappointed says:

    he wants to catch people?

  133. ChrisNY~Laurie says:

    Bam…proof that Fogen lied and was well aware of self defense and most importantly, Stand Your Ground Laws. He said he hadn’t even heard of SYG until this happened on Hannity

  134. lurker says:

    And show that he was a wanna-be cop!

  135. parrot says:

    Courses about Florida self-defense and SYG laws!!!

  136. lurker says:

    OK–now we’re going to impeach the statement that he had never heard of SYG–on national television.

  137. Trained Observer says:

    State attempting to stick it to Fogen on his Seminole State College course work. MOM doesn’t like it, naturally.

  138. gwynne says:

    sounds like how to be a police officer stuff? mom doesn’t like this at all.

    • Mary says:

      also sounds like how he knew what elements of self-defense to employ in all his subsequent statements.

      thought you had that wrapped up good, huh george?

  139. colin black says:

    Z its

    Zimpinz Internet Trolls


  140. disappointed says:

    school records.

  141. Woow! says:

    I just read West response to the state’s motion for protective order.
    This guy has the nerve to accuse the state of improprieties then blames his daughter.

    He may not have know his daughter was going to post that picture but I’m sure as hell is hot that they discussed Rachel in the car calling her names.

    The media did not let that story go as he so eloquently stated in his motion.

  142. jo says:

    pass the vegemite…this guys toast!!!…..and that’s a whole lotta toast

  143. bettykath says:

    We’ll probably hear from a firearms expert opine that the lacerations, etc. on fogen’s face could have come from the gun recoil, not a fist in the face.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      Let’s pray. Although I don’t know how that’s possible when they’ve already put their eggs in Rao’s dumb ass basket. Mark my words HER TESTIMONY DID NOT HELP.

      • cielo62 says:

        tasha~ I swear! Are you watching the SAME TRIAL we are or what?? Rao DEMOLISHED the defense’s lies, one by one! INSIGNIFICANT injuries, NO contusions or severe hematomas. What TF are you blabbering about??



      • Malamiyya says:

        Tasha, either you have a bad case of the-sky-is-falling-itis, or you are a troll, because all you can say about anything and everything is that nothing helps.

  144. Beverly says:

    How can West be so upset/nose outta joint about the pictures? I thought they were the ones who took them and posted? Is that wrong?

  145. ay2z says:

    Fogen testified via Hannity, he had 15 or 20 seconds from the shot to when officers first arrived.

    Begs the question, is this what was in his mind before pulling the trigger into the chest of his victim, pushed ‘under’ the button area, that quote “there was no more time.” unquote ?

    Officers were arriving and he had to make his kill, he had past the point of no return in his actions that night, and had to finish the job.

    Begs the question, if otherwise, that he knew officers were there, and he knew as we know, there was screaming, loud desperate wailing screams, that any officer would hear and follow, and report to quickly.

    He still had to pull the trigger? Why? Even if he were to black out, or stress out, the officers would likely scare any alleged ‘attacker’ if it was a bonefide attacker, so why pull the trigger?

    And why not wait the few seconds for officers to respond to the continual screaming and help? Because he knew he did not have to act to preserve life, he could act with depravity and do what he wanted, once he left no witness.

    “Wanted to” itself demands ‘depravity’ (by common sense)

  146. colin black says:

    M O M
    He …TRAYVON…..

    Didn’t have any impact injurys frm CONCRETE Right.


    He only had contact with your CLIENT

    that an contact with a HOLLOWPOINT was all it took.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      In other words how did Zimmerman end up with concrete burns and not Martin unless what my client is saying is true?? MOM didn’t need to cross her all day, the one punch was enough.

      And let the record show that everything I said BDLR needed to do yesterday to be effective, he did today, including mentioning Rachel.

      • cielo62 says:

        tasha~ OH so wise one! WHY aren’t YOU a lawyer? Then you can spare us the sanctimonious BS you post?


      • fauxmccoy says:

        oh, i bet he read your posts, tasha!

        no chance he was setting this up on his own, without you, is there?

  147. Nef05 says:

    I missed the direct examination of the ME and the Hannity interview. But, reading the comments it looks like the prosecution is having a STELLAR DAY!

    WhoooHooo!!! Nice! 😀

    • Nef05 says:

      Pundits appear to be positively giddy over the Hannity interview and how it conflicts with fogen (and common sense), but perplexed that the prosecution didn’t follow up and drive the points home.

      Is there likely the FDLE investigators will contrast and compare all the different versions, pointing out the days and days worth of inconsistencies? Is this why we’re thinking there was no followup, at the time?

      • ks says:

        I think so. If the pundits can see the obvious conflicts/lies, so can the jury and the prosecution will keep pointing them out with the investigators and the forensics.

  148. GrannyStandingforTruth says:

    One thing I noticed about MOM and West is their persistent disrespect for females and constant insulting of their intelligence.

    Another thing, I wanted to bring up is the residents that live there have dogs. Dogs are smart and they pick up people’s scent. They are familiar with those who live on their block scent. Let me explain myself a little further. I live on a quiet street. There are eleven dogs on this street. If someone passes by on this street that does live on this block or that is not a frequent visitor such as family members or friends, those dogs bark in harmony, until that person is gone. If a people that lives on this block pass by, those dogs do not bark in harmony.

    If someone had been hiding in the bushes or even close to the neighbors in that neighborhood back porch, bushes, patio, etc., those dogs would have barked because dogs are also territorial.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Hey, you’re right about that. Good point!

    • roderick2012 says:

      “One thing I noticed about MOM and West is their persistent disrespect for females and constant insulting of their intelligence.”

      One would think having a female judge and an all female jury they would attempt to avoid being so obviously disrespectful to females but as the old saying goes a leopard can’t change his spots.

      But I guess once a racist misogynist always a racist misogynist.

  149. I’m crying laughing

    AMETIA: Dr. Rao SNATCHED WIGS & told O’Mara she did it for FREE!


    Somebody call 911, I’m choking from laughing!

  150. whonoze says:

    Urgh: been having a soliloquy on the earlier thread…


    1. a subtle, tricky, superficially plausible, but generally fallacious method of reasoning.
    example: see O’Mara, Mark

    Bush-logic: We can can attack Iraq because they might have a nuclear weapon someday. So obviously, GZ gets to shoot TM because, you know, an asshole might try to hurt you in the future.

    So apparently the Zimmerteam Internet Troll Squad (ZITS) is already trying to dig up dirt on Dr. Rao…

  151. colin black says:

    B SHYSTER THinks foggagge s statement I felt he saw my gun an reached an said your going to die tonight mo fo
    I s a not guilty in the BAG

    An that the reason then foggagge broke out or had huge grin on his face at end of the hanratty interview

    Did you see his mega grin

    Like his team had won at super bowl

    Or he had a super large bowl of chilee hot dogs to scoff in front of his face.

    He was latterly grinning from ear to ear.

    Oh why couldn’t J ARRIAS Been from Florida
    An why couldn’t she obsessed on foggagge

    O r is that just to evil a thought from me?

  152. MichelleO says:

    Enjoy your LAST holiday, fogen.

  153. disappointed says:

    I think Fogen supporters forget Fogen is not the only one who had the right to defend them self. IMO if there were blows to the head I think it is when the gun came out. Trayvon probably swung and jerked trying to get away.

    • YQ says:

      well, fights move around and do all sorts of unexpected things, but the things that stood out to me the most is him admitting that he “aimed” and “shot” the kid at point blank. Then he went on to say that he didn’t know he if he shot him or not??? Because he sat up and… yadayadyada. A shot to the heart and as the bullet opens the lung, prevents breathing and kills almost instantly.

  154. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    I am glad I do not have to watch O’Mara cross-examining an archeologist about the Giza pyramid and asking questions about each and every stone block both seen and unseen!

  155. O’Mara did not touch her regarding whether the injuries were minor.

    Still no testimony regarding the significance of the blood trails and that is disappointing.

    • jo says:

      yep, where is sir isaac newton when you need him

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      Agreed. How wasb the blood flowing FORWARD??? And this witness gave him a self defense claim by saying he was knocked down by Martin who apparently didn’t flee which is what MOM was saying during the last question. Just when I regain faith in the state they phuck up. smh

    • YQ says:

      Interesting Professor, and I’m wondering if that’s Serino meant about the law of gravity in his errr…. “challenge interview”.

    • Aunt Bea says:

      More than merely disappointing.

      Who else would/could testify to the significance of these trails on a living person?

      Count on the jurors’ life experiences?

  156. Endless Summer says:

    I’m wondering if the defendant slipped in the wet grass and banged his head on the sidewalk when he went chasing after Trayvon.

    • MichelleO says:

      Very possible. Someone else above stated that he could have gotten those “injuries” while at MMA practice.

      • Endless Summer says:

        Yes, I saw that, and it certainly seems a likely possibility.

        I’m wondering if he was chasing Trayvon, slipped and hurt himself, and that might have sent him into a rage. I have seen bullies/DV perps do this–injure themselves going after someone, become enraged over their self-inflicted injury, and take it out on their victim.

        • MichelleO says:

          Exactly! Just like when you accidentally bite your tongue, stub your toe, or hit your elbow. Sends you into a rage.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I wouldn’t be surprised.

    • Aunt Bea says:

      No one reported Trayvon laughing. (smile)

  157. jo says:

    o’mara is treating the jury like they are idiots that would believe trayvon very delicately touched shimmys head to the ground causing tiny injuries each time…..i think the prosecution is treating the jury as though they are intelligent adults and they don’t have to spell out everything for them to realise how unrealistic the defences scenario’s are.

    shimmyman never said he gently knocked my head and gave me a few bitch slaps, he said punched me in the face and slammed my head repeatedly…..

    the jury can see that those bumps and scrapes are from a bit of a wrestle and possibly one punch in his lying face.

  158. breelee says:

    I’m scaring my pups to death with all my yelling, but why don’t they see that the blood in his stash did NOT come from inside his nose? Why didn’t Guy ask if it could’ve come from those dots at the tip? I had a SO with a stash and saw him with bloody noses, it ran on the sides, not down the dang middle!

    Sick of MOM’s what if’s. What if a UFO came down and cause fogens boo-boos. Same difference..

    • Malisha says:

      It doesn’t matter where the blood came from; it could have come from Mars. The injuries were superficial, insignificant, tiny, “not coincident with” a dangerous life-threatening beat-down, OVER AND OUT.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        …And, it’s not about whether gz thought the attack on himself was lethal. The law requires that the jurors believe that the attack appears lethal to any reasonable person (themselves).

        gz says that Trayvon went for his gun, and that’s why he retrieved it and shot him. If that were true case closed, since gz had no right or need to shoot once he had control of his weapon. Nor, did he have any right to fight for his weapon, because he was the person who brought the weapon into a situation he claims was dangerous.

        One minute gz is too afraid of Trayvon to talk to him, and yet, a minute later he’s not afraid to go running after him. Which, of course, makes sense because gz had a firearm. He had no reason to fear anybody, most especially when he had his window rolled down in his truck (which, of course, is what everyone does in the rain right? Keep their windows rolled down.) Am I missing something?

  159. any scratches,might have been TM,trying desperately to get away from Fogens mma holds,poor,poor kid

  160. YQ says:

    “What about the ‘next’ injury?” HAHAHAHAHA!!! Is it me or does O’Mara suck at lawyering?

    • MichelleO says:

      Yes, he does! Neither he nor West handle getting their asses handed to them very well. I wonder if this is why they are representing fogen.

      • YQ says:

        Personally I think it’s all about the money with them. Once that website took off, they saw the $$$ and pulled him from Hal Uhrig quickly.

    • Sabrina B. says:

      I bet if they had let her answer she would have said, ‘judging from the extent of the present injuries then, no.’

      • YQ says:

        They keep singing that song: “Zimmerman’s injuries were consistent.”

        They can’t toot that tune anymore, the defense is almost dismantled.

    • jo says:

      tee hee i’m with you on that one….i loved the other day when he yells objection a few times in succession and then yells it again but stops half way out of his chair, has a derrrr look on his face and finally says oh sorry i think that question was actually ok, or something like that.

    • Ms.X says:

      To me its not that he sucks at lawyering, its that he is a diabolical devil. I wish he would be attacked and have his character besmirched the same way he has done Trayvon. He has stated repeatedly things like, “When Trayvon was slamming george zimmeran’s head against the cement,” “when Trayvon was punching my client repeatedly in the face.” Its very low down.

  161. Sabrina B. says:

    That was righteous.

  162. MichelleO says:

    fogen is now throwing up his lunch.

  163. 15 minute recess after Dr Rau’s testimony concludes.. Court will resume at 3:25 pm EDT.

  164. ic2fools says:

    has west been benched?

  165. disappointed says:

    West looks upset, wonder why?

    • Sophia33 says:

      Rao just kicked his ass

    • gwynne says:

      they couldn’t intimidate her?
      or..is he worried about intimidation/disrespect issues related to his ice cream jaunt tweet-a-palooza?

      • crazy1946 says:

        They should have ordered chocolate swirl ice cream, or at least that is what he is now thinking, silly fool still does not realize what the whole problem is, he thinks it is about ice cream…..

  166. Mary says:

    Today the state’s medical examiner sent George Zimmerman to jail.

  167. You all have thoughtful comments says:


  168. lurker says:


    She’s excused?

  169. SearchingMind says:

    O’Mara said: “The extent of injury is not significant/relevant to this case”. So, what has O’Mara been arguing to the jury since day one? This dude is sooo full of it that he does not realize when he is undermining his own case.

    • elle says:

      The laws that fogen is trying to use in his favor also apply to Trayvon. I am surprised they are pretending that is not the case. And, Trayvon was a minor.

    • elle says:

      And SearchingMind, thank you for all the time you have spent helping us understand the laws that apply.

    • crazy1946 says:

      He is explaining to the Dr. that she does not know the law? I am sure she realizes that it is not the extent of the injuries, but the fear of loss of life that is involved in his defense. But as she has demonstrated better than he realizes, the fear of loss of life should not have been there for a reasonable person…. considering the minor injuries….

    • fauxmccoy says:

      i believe i said the same thing. can i be your paralegal? pretty please? i’m a fast learner!

  170. gwynne says:

    mom doesn’t like hand questions…

  171. gbrbsb says:

    Here we go… MOM’s going by the any blunt trauma to the head could be fatal and how was GZ expected to know that the next injury wouldn’t be fatal… that is the defence’s case in a nutshell!

    • MichelleO says:

      Like someone else said, he could have sustained some of those injuries from his MMA fighting practices at the gym. He could have sustained those head injuries from running after his prey in the rain.

  172. jo says:

    so if someone scratches me i can shoot them because they could maybe possibly somehow might kill me with the next scratch

  173. Boyd says:

    He’s implying the ME is corrupt and he thinks the ME is not intelligent. “What about the next injuries?”

  174. ay2z says:

    what about the ‘next’ injury?
    Object’n sustained, calls for speculation about some ‘next’ injury

  175. fauxmccoy says:

    hahahahaha – objection sustained re: ‘the next injury’

    hint: quit while you are a ‘head’ mr o’mara

  176. lurker says:


    Should be a whole lot here to cover.

  177. MichelleO says:

    Thank you!

  178. Deborah Moore says:

    Wow! M O M goes way out into the weeds.
    The next injury? The one that didn’t happen.

  179. disappointed says:

    ask about Trayvon’s gun shot, is that life threatening. Oh never mind we know.

  180. MichelleO says:

    Why doesn’t the judge tell him to sit his azz down.

  181. jo says:

    if it was like any of the other injuries then no

  182. fauxmccoy says:

    if extent of injuries is not relevant, mr o’mara, why are you doggedly pursuing this line of questioning?

  183. i repeat fogen is toast there is no way defense can refute this

    • chi1224 says:

      I agree Katie. O’Mara is making a fool of himself. This witness was fantastic for the state and he can’t change that.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Osterman may be putting a lot of mileage on his car in years ahead visiting the “best friend” he ever had in the clink.

  184. jo says:

    so he didn’t punch shimmyman in the face 12 times, he possible slapped and scratched him a few times now…..he is trying to get her to testify that it is possible that his head made contact with ground over and over but they must have been very minor contacts….trayvon was very gentle apparently

  185. disappointed says:

    funny fogen showed straight up and down slams now Trayvon is trying to tear his head off slams.

  186. chi1224 says:

    I wonder if the jurors hate O’Mara by now?

  187. ay2z says:

    “Consistent with one” blow on cement.

    Injuries are SO CLOSE TO EACH OTHER”, She is having to sepculate’, but says it’s ‘unusual’, “head would really have to be contorted’ to get your scenarios.

    Sidewalk,MOM introduces the ‘edge’.

    Objection overruled because ‘hypothetical with expert’

  188. Tzar says:

    this is the funniest cross yet
    O’Mara is all smarm

  189. Sabrina B. says:

    That is not a bruise below that is a lump.

  190. Woow! says:

    It is possible what you are suggesting….heeeheee

  191. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Why don’t West and O’Mara experiment with themselves??

  192. Sabrina B. says:

    Time to get up Bernie.

  193. fauxmccoy says:

    let’s shave george and bang him around right now and see what happens

  194. DruDo says:

    He cannot make it what it is NOT.

  195. gwynne says:

    I guess it’s also possible a yeti hit him with a baseball bat.

    • MichelleO says:

      It was a yeti robot who intended no harm, even with its laser beams and bombs.

    • Tzar says:

      well it was dark….

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      We know what Zimmerman said is IMPOSSIBLE and I would put her hypothesis of Martin causing his facial knicks.with a punch as impossible as well. We don’t know how fat ass got his boo boos but they did not happen as he claimed. She gives him the face punch and concrete slam, still don’t know how the hell this helps anything. Smmfh.

      • elle says:

        She perfectly demonstrated how fogen could have punched himself on the bridge of his nose. It was a perfect visual. She placed her fist on the bridge of her nose where his little laceration was.

  196. chi1224 says:

    Her opinion is loud and clear to the jury, the injuries were “very insignificant” and “so minor”…. All this blithering by O’Mara is not going to change that. The truth that is crystal clear is Fogen LIED.

  197. Sabrina B. says:

    Head would have to be contorted.

  198. tonydphotog says:

    Is this going to take all afternoon? Same questions over and over.

    Isn’t it time for an objection?

  199. Mojo says:

    Please tell me the State will redirect with a simple, “In your expert medical opinion are these injuries minor and not consistent with life threatening injuries or consistent with the way GZ claimed?”

  200. fauxmccoy says:

    twitter going nuts with zimpologists calling this woman a quack


  201. disappointed says:

    what will the jury see?

  202. crazy1946 says:

    If this was not so serious it would be on comedy central… This lady has handed MMO a complete a** whopin! He should exhibit wounds on his back side…..

  203. DruDo says:

    Gee, scumbag, so she’s proving over and over again that he lied about his pumpkin head was smashed repeatedly on concrete.

  204. ay2z says:

    Least number contact skull and ‘cement’ (it’s CONCRETE MOM, expert tells you).

    “I told you three”.

    Q, how many maximum?
    A Can’t tell you
    you have to tell me the scenario

    MOM wants to increase number of blows using this expert.

    “you have got to give me the scenario”

    Ok, 6 blows to side of head?

    No– injuries were so tiny.

    Consider 4 on left side? “That’s not MY OPINION. It’s possible”
    Abrasions in front, not punctate she has to correct him again.

    “SO IMPOSSIBLE TO GET BRUISE AND SWELLING SEPARATE, both in one place indicates consistent with ONE injury.”

  205. Sabrina B. says:

    LOL sit down MOM she is not going for it.

  206. disappointed says:

    How did we go from one hit to 30? Good grief.

  207. Judy75201 says:

    He’s going for the fucking reasonable doubt because really, ANYTHING IS FUCKING POSSIBLE. I HATE THIS TACTIC.

  208. FactsFirst says:

    What about 40 times? fogen said he was his was hit about 40 times right

  209. Rachael says:

    What a condescending ah

  210. DruDo says:

    Give up, scumbag. Fogen lied about the whole thing and you can’t change it.

  211. Tzar says:

    O’Mara is getting upset
    ha ha ha

  212. Judy75201 says:

    O’Mara is a scumbag

  213. Trained Observer says:

    Rene Stutzman‏@renestutzman12m
    JacksonvilleME: I can’t tell if what u call swelling & injuries to his head are injuries or if he just has a lumpy skull. #Trayvon.

  214. Judy75201 says:

    “The injuries are so minor”

  215. colin black says:


  216. Patricia J-C says:

    Dr. Rao is the bomb!!! i love how she is throwing MOM’s BS back in his face. LOL

  217. Judy75201 says:

    Why is Shellie no longer attending?

    • Rachael says:

      Because she’s on the witness list and can’t be in the courtroom until after she testifies – if she does.

      • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

        Rachael- Is Junior on the witness list to testify as well? He hasn’t been in the courtroom since his little press conference inside the courthouse has he? I know he wasn’t there the day Momma, Daddy and Shellie were told they had to leave.

    • Trained Observer says:

      She and Z’s parents were ejected before opening statements because they are on wit list. Defense made a big stink about getting Trayvon’s parents removed as well because they, too, are on list. State law, however, is very clear about parents of victims, especially minors, having a right to be in court.

  218. ChrisNY~Laurie says:

    So f I am understanding MOM, Fogen could have hit Trayvon and not left any marks on Trayvon or himself…correct?

  219. Deborah Moore says:

    Oh, she is fabulous.
    That was your scenario, you would know…

  220. Sophia33 says:

    That is scenario you posed so you would know.

  221. Tzar says:

    O’Mara increased the contrast on his pics

  222. mrsdoubtfire says:

    Wish every witness was like this woman. She wont let O’Mara lead her by the nose.

  223. Trained Observer says:

    Rene Stutzman‏@renestutzman14m
    DonWest pleading re that ice cream photo: My family has been threatened with violence & rape since it became news. #Trayvon, #Zimmerman

    Whenver possible West pulls out the “lie” card.

    • Tzar says:

      they threatened to rape his whole family? that sounds weird

      • colin black says:

        sounds desperate if your ah hem that way inclined
        Go for the crème de la crème.

        Not the mould left after milk left in hot oven for a week

        One o westers ramp scallions would tweet that or falseflag that threat from a friend


        to cover there asses for being grounded and pounded an not in a nice way

        Whaaaaa we channnt Gooa to CHOURT an court cotraversey an make fun of poor BLAHK TRASH!??




        real scheme team shows its self skellators spawn

        An so the old death threat cant leave home blah blah..

      • Malisha says:

        Not so weird, Tzar. Some Pba-lack dynamite octopus with eight arms and lots of other dangerous body parts could rape them all at once! Oh Oh Oh get body guards, QUICK!!! Send money!

    • elle says:

      Gee, now he knows how DeeDee feels. And, Trayvon’s family feel. I am thinking karma.

    • parrot says:

      Has she ever tweeted about the doxing and harassment suffered by the two Dee Dees who were mistaken for Rachel Jeanteal?

    • cielo62 says:

      TO~ Rape HIM or his daughters? Both? WITH the ice cream? DETAILS we want DETAILS! Seriously, what do threats have to do with some stupid and inappropriate tweets?


    • groans says:

      Playing the VICTIM card, as usual. No decency. Whatever “threats” they may have received, they brought on THEMSELVES!!

    • EdgySF says:

      On nos!

      His princesses are so precious that King Kong wants them!!

      Barbarians can’t control themselves in their presence!!

      Must. Have. White. Virgins.

      • Malisha says:

        White virgins?
        At least his family is safe.
        (see, e.g., Lot’s daughters, ipsa ingra politburo boom, et alia.)

  224. MichelleO says:

    A whole book of fogen pictures. My god. Couldn’t eat for a week.

  225. ay2z says:

    Reason why killer did not go get a CT scan.

  226. disappointed says:

    she is looking damn

  227. colin black says:

    get foggage up right now buzz cut an then razor or get a Blind interpreter in to feel his head an They will tell us

    His head reads in BRAILE


  228. FactsFirst says:

    Glad I’m not the only one who doesn’t understand the defenses “circular logic”

  229. parrot says:

    O’Mara, shave his head and while you’re at it, get an X-ray of his nose and admit it into evidence.

    Come on … Do it.

  230. disappointed says:

    I hope Mr Guy ask could you tell better if his hair were short today.

  231. Rachael says:

    Why do you think? That is what he does. He is a distortionist – like a contortionist, but distorts things.

    MO’M the distortionist.

  232. MichelleO says:

    The more Mom is beat at his own game, the more condescending he becomes.

  233. tonydphotog says:

    I wonder how many of these bruises could be caused by his MMA Training?

  234. Judy75201 says:

    LOL good question, medical examiner!

  235. DruDo says:

    OMG! I LOVE this woman!

  236. Sabrina B. says:

    She is not falling for it MOM!

  237. Tzar says:

    you can’t have swelling without bruising in blunt trauma

  238. Judy75201 says:

    The bruise is almost on top of his head?

  239. ay2z says:

    How can the jury tell where she is talking about in these phtoos, where is the ‘bruise’. If the swelling was so severe, then there would be a significant bruise there, can’t separate one from the other.
    (bruise and swelling go together)

    MOM, it’s not your fault your conclusions are ‘extremely unscientific’ (taking what is on other side and applying it here)

    Difficult to give opinion on photo because it’s so distorted.

  240. DruDo says:

    ROFL!! She’s getting the best of scumbag.

    • Malisha says:

      “Very insignificant” from the doctor,
      “capillary type lacerations” from Serino.
      The die is cast.

  241. colin black says:

    My term not yours

    O MANIC Moronic .shopahriphic.

  242. DruDo says:

    It’s so obvious how desperate scumbag is getting. Making mountains out of MOLEhills.

  243. Boyd says:

    She is smarter then MOM, not letting him insert words in her mouth like those other clowns

  244. RobertSF says:

    It just occurred to me that Zimmerman’s head boo-boos could be the result of him rolling on the concrete while wrestling with Martin.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:


    • Sophia33 says:

      Exactly and that is what I think the prosecution is getting at.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      That is a better explanation than what she said about one punch and down. Fuckin NONSENSE!

    • lurker says:

      Yes–exactly. If those punctate abrasions came from the cement, he would have to be in some position other than on his back.

      Now she is talking about how severely contorted the head would have to be in order to get all those bruises all over.

    • PiranhaMom says:

      @Robert –

      Yes, head a moving object – not necessarily on concrete dog walk. Could have been on concrete box cover of irrigation valves in the grassy area.

  245. ay2z says:

    She does admit to a small bruise, she gives him a lesson on what she considers, not just distance but whole area contour of head.

    MOM calls client’s head a sphere or oval.

    She corrects MOM on his use of ‘scarring’– NOT the right USE OF TERM.

    Scalp not skull… dumskull!!

  246. disappointed says:

    I think his scalp is discolored. i do not think these are bruising. It is not a fluke he grew his hair out.

  247. lurker says:

    OK–getting into the shape of the head.

    I want to know how a person laying on their back gets wounds consistent with concrete on the front of their head.

  248. Sophia33 says:

    MOM she is way way above your league. You might want to stop while you are behind.

  249. Rodlen says:


    The defence attorneys have posted their response to the ice cream picture motion. They’re calling for an inquiry into the state.

    • Tzar says:

      Inquiries for everyone!!!!!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Bwa-ha-ha. Right.

    • lurker says:

      Holey shirt!

      Lotta words to say its all the prosecution’s fault.

      Nobody cares about West’s “guilty pleasure” of eating ice cream after court. Apparently his demeanor with his family is not such that they have respect for a 19 year old witness to a horrendous event in the life of her friend (regardless of WHAT anyone thinks about how that happened), particularly considering the profound differences in the advantages in their lives.

      Haha–triumphing over stupid my aunt fannie’s fanny.

      And dad didn’t get it “dead” right.

    • Woow! says:

      It’s the states fault…. my daughter is stupid…I took this picture the day before (but decided to post it after Rachel’s testimony)..

      Racist SOB

      I know you a poster previously stated that the judge is not political and MOM is active and may have more clout but something has to be done. The defense are low down dirty dogs that disrespect the Court, JN, female witnesses, and the jurors.

      JN need to grow a pair and hit them where it hurts.

    • cielo62 says:

      LOL! Boo Hoo! Sanctions sanctions sanctions!!


  250. Sabrina B. says:

    No MOM he is lumpy.

  251. colin black says:

    she cant use your term if you don’t mention it to the jury omaniac………..

  252. Boyd says:

    small baby boo boos MOM, get over it.

    • Rachael says:

      And you can bet if those moms on the jury have seen injuries and if they have boys may have seen fights and just have to be shaking their heads.

  253. Rachael says:

    I still say the punctate abrasions could come from bushes, branches or rolling on the ground.

    • chi1224 says:

      I agree. I wish somebody would ask her if that is “possible”

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      I say.that as well. Pardon my French but her testimony of one punch slightly injuring two sides of.the head is flat out fuckin dumb. And the right-handed TM did not punch him and cause a cut on the left side of his nose and two knicks on the tip. Recoil bitch RECOIL!!!

  254. gbrbsb says:

    OK MOM, you better get Georgie to shave his head again so to prove to the jury it wasn’t a ridge made by the skull plates.

    And another thing MOM, what you said before about GZ’s head being hit on one side and being pushed against the pavement on the other,

    a) GZ claims Trayvon lifted his head and slammed it against concrete, NOT that his head was buffeted/forced/ pshed against the concrete by

    b) Where is the bruising that corresponds to the hit on the other side of his head that propelled his head against the concrete ?

  255. Sabrina B. says:

    If it is swelling then the the bruise should be so marked it can be seen, get it MOM?

  256. You all have thoughtful comments says:

  257. Sabrina B. says:

    Distortion in the photograph. Ha!

  258. DruDo says:

    Ewwwww…..brown moles.

  259. Rachael says:

    I bet if she saw the reenactment with the knuckle bandages, she laughed even harder than I did.

    • gbrbsb says:

      Touch wood and fingers crossed because the defence still has their own medical expert and my bet is he will argue exactly the contrary… unfortunately medical and forensics are not exact sciences, there is almost always room for opinion.

      • cielo62 says:

        gbrbsb~ But can you see something that just isn’t there? No DNA means no DNA. Natural variations without contusions are just that. I mean, even with an ME that is in the defense’s pocket, WHAT can they say that could salvage “insignificant injuries”?


        • Malisha says:

          They could call them “grievous injuries” or as Jonathan Turley so cavalierly referred to them, “serious injuries,” but that won’t matter. Six jurors will look at those little scratches and conclude in about two minutes flat, “Huh? THOSE little nothing scratches? I had worse than that pinning up my prom dress when I was Trayvon’s age.”

  260. Sophia33 says:

    He has a bumpy head. You go girl.

  261. parrot says:


  262. Boyd says:

    here we go again. Now the ME is incompetent or lying

  263. elle says:

    I have always believed those spots are moles or some kind of blemishes. Those are not wounds on the side of his head.

  264. Sabrina B. says:

    Why is Bernie allowing this?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Rope to hang OM with. Jury won’t like him badgering the witness. Looks desperate.

  265. ay2z says:

    West talking to intern– is he saying ‘check the tree!! Quick, check the tree!! Need ideas now!!” And check if this woman person has a FB page! Quick!!”


  266. So, O’Mara’s point is that there may be a few more very minor abrasions.

    So, what?

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      Professor how.does her version of one punch and down help the state if TM COULD have escaped????

    • Boyd says:

      exactly. so what? The ME said MINOR. NOT LIFE THREATENING sorry for the caps.

    • ay2z says:

      Cut… or is it punctate… to the point, Prof!! Thanks!!

      MOM forgets the K.I.S.S.

      Dr. RAo says about the high angle photo looking down from top and side view “It’s a VERY VERY FUNNY ANGLE” about not being a swelling because there is no bruise.

      “NO, I can’t see a bruise there” (think that was states 67)

  267. colin black says:

    Its arriass poor wee bent finger again
    its no a a lhump an neither is the bump on the lhumps head

    Its a genuine boo boo like his panda eyes were genuine blahck eyes

    As we say in SCOTLAND


    In a sarcastict tone.

  268. Woow! says:

    He is not going to get her to say CAC has bruising on his head.

  269. MichelleO says:

    YOU LOOK WORRIED, fogen!!! What’s the matter?

  270. disappointed says:

    poor fogen lies coming out

  271. MichelleO says:

    …I mean Mom….

  272. Two sides to a story says:

    This is a heady experience.

  273. MichelleO says:

    Pretty soon, she is going to get the Rachel Jeantel treatment because she is not giving West what he wants. He’s getting rather testy.

    • Deborah Moore says:

      Michelle, that’s Mark O’Mara.
      West is the Bald Defense Atty.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      He will trap her with what I’ve been saying. This witness does not explain how TM knocked Fogen on his ass and didn’t.run like hell. If West doesn’t say it that.won’t stop the jury from thinking it. I AM. She fuckin got it wrong!

      • cielo62 says:

        tasha~ you are an incredible nincompoop. THAT IS NOT HER JOB.


      • cielo62 says:


      • pat deadder says:

        tash I wasn’t angry at you at first because after yesterday I had a few doubts about BDLR.But I read the common sense comments here and re listened to the trial and realized it was only one day.When you hear evidence that is against fogen you don’t seem to comment on that.Now you’re making me angry.

        • cielo62 says:

          pat deadder~ take heart. I’ve had it up to my bifocal eyeballs with her negativity with the prosecution. Dr Rao was awesome, huh? 🙂


  274. Deborah Moore says:

    Is this allowed?

  275. fauxmccoy says:

    i love this woman!!!

    • Deborah Moore says:

      I was going to ask where the line forms to give her a sweet kiss on the cheek.

    • ay2z says:

      Women physicians from India (if that’s where she is from originally) can’t get jobs historically, in Canada, difficult to fight the system here at least in the past.

      • Ms.X says:

        They all must’ve moved to Houston, cause there are LOTS of them here. Of course we also have a substaantial Indian & Pakistani population.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        we have a lot here, especially in the bay area and in my experience, all brilliant.

    • Trained Observer says:

      I think she’s losing patiencewith all the “ifs”.

  276. fauxmccoy says:

    duh, ‘i too have very good photographs’

  277. Endless Summer says:

    “to see if we can focus you…” he is SO condescending, and y’all are right, he does not respect women at all.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      absolutely — did he ask to approach this witness? defense often neglects when women are testifying…. guess what else? an all woman jury, jackety ass!

  278. Deborah Moore says:

    I also have very good photographs.
    Go, go, go.

  279. ay2z says:

    Dr. Rao hits him with the bumps on head could be an anatomic feature, no discolouration at all..

    Hair is so short, we should be able to see it really well, and she says “I have to strain to see what you are trying to point out.”

    I don’t see a bruise there… I also have very good photographs”

    • ay2z says:

      She says AV screen photos ‘so poor’.

      “I will show you MY PICTURES THAT I HAVE”. DAMN! she’s not taking his guff.

  280. lurker says:

    Points out punctate wounds without bruising.

  281. MichelleO says:

    Off with his head!

  282. Nellie Nell says:

    I love this lady! That’s the shape of the lumpy lump! LOL

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      None of.this explains why TM would hit him and not escape!!

      • because he was holding him(mma) then shot him,keep up

      • Malisha says:

        TM did not (probably) even hit him. He could have impact from gun recoil; he could have impact from knocking into something; he could have self-inflicted wounds on his head (gun-shaped by the way); there is no real evidence TrayvonMartin ever landed a punch or even a slap on him, no DNA.

      • Malisha says:

        Tasha, you’re not suggesting, are you, that Trayvon hit Fogen and then hung around? For what, to see if he could land another good one? We don’t know what happened because it’s impossible to know what happened. Even when there are videos, as there were of the Boston Marathon bombing, it is extremely difficult to figure out what actually happened within a short and violent period of time with unknown participants doing all sorts of unexpected things. You can reasonably rule out, however, that Trayvon sucker punched Fogen, then had a clear path to escape and failed to take it. Just not possible.

        Just as Fogen’s creative scenario was not possible. That’s all the prosecution really needs to prove. I think it’s already proven.

  283. Sophia33 says:

    “That may be an anatomic variation.” In other words, George may just have a lumpy head. Hahaha.

  284. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    time to shave gz’s head

  285. Rachael says:

    Let’s shave and examine MO’M’s head.

    shaking mine.

  286. lurker says:

    She says that our heads are not perfectly shapen.

    He moves on.

  287. Tzar says:

    anatomic variation aka knotty ass head

  288. Sabrina B. says:

    Shape of his head. LMAO Wheeeeww! I am loving this!

  289. fauxmccoy says:

    bumpy head boy and asymmetrical at that
    let’s shave his head

  290. disappointed says:

    haha it’s his jacked up skull

  291. Woow! says:

    That’s just the shape of his head…yes yes and yes

  292. Puck says:

    “no, that’s the shape of his head … no discoloration … anatomic variation”

  293. Endless Summer says:

    Yeah! The SHAPE of his head!!! Love it.

  294. parrot says:


  295. Sophia33 says:

    The preponderance of the evidence.

  296. Elijah says:

    assess not a***ses 😉

  297. lurker says:

    Refers back to the preponderance of the evidence–a single impact is more likely.

  298. Ms.X says:

    I think we should use the word scrumopolis for where the head makes impact.

  299. The Dr. should of told MOM, “Don’t no, no, no me!”

  300. Sabrina B. says:

    One impact is more plausible.

  301. Nellie Nell says:

    MOM has no respect for women. His demeanor when talking to women lacks respect in a major way unless they are Jenna!

  302. DruDo says:

    No matter how hard scumbag tries, he can’t overcome INSIGNIFICANT, non life threatening boo-boos which would justify murdering Trayvon. GD coward.

    • tashatexas77048 says:

      Im still pissed. One punch that knocked Zimmerman down now doesn’t explain why TM didn’t run away. I.cant believe you folks dont get it. SLOPPY ASS CONCLUSION BY THE STATE!!!!!

      • DruDo says:

        “explain why TM didn’t run away”? Perhaps because GZ killed him?

      • Ms.X says:

        I’m with you, Tasha. If we can all see it and offer alternatives, why can’t trained, professional attorneys?

        • cielo62 says:

          Ms. X~ Because we are NOT lawyers and Bernie IS. He KNOWS what he is doing. I would no more criticize him for his lawyering as I would criticize you for the way you teach. We are experts at our own professions.


        • Malisha says:

          Fogen’s DNA on Trayvon’s clothing, the holes from the bullet going through the clothing at point-blank while entering the chest at intermediate, and Fogen’s positioning of his own left hand to show he had to aim to avoid shooting himself show why Trayvon didn’t run away: He was being restrained. Also, I believe the gun was out 15-20 seconds earlier than the beginning of the last scream.

      • cielo62 says:

        tasha~ your aggravating whining is unbelievable! THAT will come out WITH THE BAL