Don West proved that he is a sadistic racist bigot

Sunday, June 30, 2013

Good afternoon:

Don West’s cross examination of Rachel Jenteal was one of the most offensive events in a courtroom that I have ever seen and I sincerely hope that the jury realizes that the ugliness he displayed was all about him and his contempt for black people.

She had no motive to lie and she did everything possible to avoid publicity.

The jury will soon discover that the defendant confirmed to police the two most damaging statements about which she testified. That is, Trayvon asked the defendant why he was following him and he responded by asking Trayvon what he was doing in the neighborhood.

The jury already knows from listening to the recorded NEN call and from Sean Knopke, the NEN dispatcher who handled that call, that the defendant got out of his vehicle and ran after Trayvon when Trayvon attempted to flee and conceal himself in the grassy area between the two buildings containing townhomes.

The most effective cross examination would have been to ask the following question and sit down:

Ms. Jenteal, you were not there and you did not see what happened, correct?

Instead, by exploiting cultural and language differences to impress everyone with how smart and clever he believes himself to be, he proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is a self-centered and bigoted asshole.

Meanwhile, I believe Rachel Jenteal held up very well.

959 Responses to Don West proved that he is a sadistic racist bigot

  1. Bonnie says:

    Don West should be thrown in an alley and spit on. He is an arrogant racist pig. His comments about the Prosecution team was beyond unprofessional and revealed his true self. He is a jerk and the irony is did they really win. All they need to do is see what happened to OJ Simpson after the verdict…the lawyers and OJ. See there is higher power who truly knows the truth. GOD sees all and killing an innocent child will never result in a peaceful life that goes for George Zimmerman and Don West and Mark O’ Mara. Everyone just sit back and watch the laws of the universe.

  2. jo says:

    did brandy green have a baby? just saw her fb photo with chad and a little one.

  3. Tzar says:

    his nose was not broken

    • MichelleO says:

      Good Gawd, he’s ugly! Please warn us beforehand when there is any extreme fogen porn to follow. That sucker is ugly close-up.

  4. Tzar says:

    Defendant’s exhibit 18 appears doctored as well

    • Malisha says:

      I don’t get how a terrible flick from a 7-11 showing a face is evidence. Of what is it evidence? How does it defend murder?

  5. jo says:

    when is the trial starting? what time? and where are you all watching it, nbc?

  6. shyloh says:

    I don’t know the answer but will Taffy be called to the stand? All he says is here say. That man is horrible!

    • SearchingMind says:

      Oh, Taaafi will be called. He will make a good character witness for GZ. Ya know, “all the burglaries and break-ins” has been committed by young black males”. “If you grow corn, you get corn”.

      BTW, I like your name. it’s the name of a beautiful neighborhood in Israel.

  7. disappointed says:

    Regarding phone records. I do not think we have them all. BDLR asked Fogen about sent text messages. BDLR read them, I want to see those text messages.
    Faux Did you ever believe the mass text message about going to Target? What grown man text his whole family to alert them of something so stupid as I am going to Target? I can see texting mass message about going to hospital wife is in labor but I AM GOING TO TARGET? Your “over and out” made lol a lot! Sad part I can see him saying.

    • Puck says:

      A few days ago I suggested that “going to Target” was shorthand for the hunting expedition. As in, “Operation: Target.”

      • disappointed says:

        I do not even know how to reply to that. Nothing would shock/surprise me at this point. Wish I could say more but I am dumbfounded because it is more than likely true.

    • crazy1946 says:

      disappointd, Perhaps we have not understood what he was actually saying when he said he was going to “Target”? Do you suppose he was not actually talking about going to a store called Target, but was instead talking about a game the family played called “Target”? Perhaps this game was about targeting young black males that had invaded their turf? Yes, I think he really did go to “Target” just not the target we have all assumed he was talking about!!

      • Trained Observer says:

        crazy1946 — A precursor to the Peter Pan game? A decided possibility!

      • disappointed says:

        oh I get it, I just do not understand how he or anyone could Target anyone’s child. What gave him the right??

    • jo says:

      i’ve never heard of this mass text, whats that all about?

    • Trained Observer says:

      diappointed and puck — am reading upthread from bottom, so response to crazy goes to you as well — a decided possibility.
      Would explain a lot.

  8. Romaine says:

    If I read the article correctly, this is the reason for the sanctions filed against Bernie, with holding this info from the defense

    • disappointed says:

      When you have to trash the victim you know you have no defense for your actions. I have said it before and I will say it again on the night Trayvon was murdered he did nothing wrong. He was not suspicious. EVEN if he sled jacked Santa in the hours before Fogen had no right to gun him down! Fogen set into motion the murder of a teen by his own power grab. I hope the jury sees it the same way as we do. Do not give this POS another chance to victimize another teen, woman or dog. I hope he spends the better part if not all of his natural life behind bars.

    • smokeegyrl says:

      At this point… it is all hearsay… and this is Facebook’s hate page all doing… they have their hands in this. They have been working on this since last year… They have gone as far as contacting the lady who filed her jewelry was stolen to go down to the SPD to claim the jewelry that was in Trayvon’s backpack in which it wasn’t hers. So dumb.

    • smokeegyrl says:

      The other thing… This has nothing to do with Fogen killing Trayvon Martin. Fogen didn’t know Trayvon at that time. What are they going to do with this information… let’s say if it is true… put Trayvon Martin in jail? Trayvon Martin is not on Trial, Fogen is! These people really need to stop their trashing of Trayvon Martin…

    • ic2fools says:

      So that’s Mr. Crazy Ass Crackers’ big discovery! well ain’t he special uncovering a teen wrote graffiti and an empty mary jane? bag was suspended and not jailed. Ofc Smith promoted and retired and Serino vanishing data Oookkkaaay.

      Mr. Crazy Ass Cracker how do you know why the Crypt Keepers filed Sanctions, it was only said to court it was because ‘discovery and defense had not received all State information Crypt Keepers never explained exactly why now did they. Or did I miss that announcment.

      Yet Mr Crazy Ass Cracker you know their reasons, got an inside line now do ya!

      Watch it now Mr. Crazy Ass Cracker before you got a turn ‘in the BOX!

      Wait for it…….

      Unless, (ding ding ding), you DO want to get in the box so you can reveal to jury and Court what has been ruled not revelant and inadmissable.


      • elcymoo says:

        His claim that the SPD covered up this information is false, anyway. Someone in the department leaked the information about Trayvon’s suspensions (including the jewelry that the police couldn’t determine was stolen, and certainly not that Trayvon had stolen it).That information was given to the media not long after Trayvon’s death. It was those leaks that prompted an investigation of the SPD officers and school officials who allowed access to Trayvon’s records.

        • ic2fools says:

          @eclymoo thanks for that information, i totally forgot

        • Malisha says:

          You know, I was baby-sitting for a kid who lived in a large apartment building with pool and tennis courts and etc. and it was a Sunday at the end of a month in spring. The elevators had signs that there was an apartment sale with lots of music CDs and books and he wanted to stop there and spend his allowance so we did. The apartment had belonged to a concert pianist who had a baby grand in the living room and about 5,000 CDs and he looked through them at great length on a boring afternoon. I floated around the apartment and saw that this woman had beautiful clothes (but size 24 which nobody I know wears) and beautiful jewelry (which was all marked up too expensive for “garage sale” items). When we wandered out, the people running the sale said, “come back at 4:45 and whatever’s left you can take very cheap. We came back at 4:45 and the boy got about a dozen CDs for $1 and then they asked me if I could take the remainder of the costume jewelry so I did. I untangled a few chains and discarded single earrings and then had about 40 pieces of really nice costume jewelry. I don’t even wear jewelry. I have already given most of it away and whoever took some really loved it (exotic and dramatic taste, lots of rhinestones, “saphires” and “rubies”) and then I packed the rest of it up in plastic bags and took it to NY with me (in my BACKPACK!!!) when I went to a concert and to visit a friend (she likes jewelry). I had to laugh — what if I got searched and made out to be a thief?

          • cielo62 says:

            Malisha~ You’d ONLY be a thief IF you had the costume jewelery PLUS a screwdriver. Otherwise, you’re ok. (snark, done now)


    • elle says:

      Yep, they still have nothing. Can you imagine working so hard for a YEAR, wasting all that time, and still have nothing? How embarrassing for the nutjobs.

  9. LeaNder says:

    I now understand, the use of the phonological wisdom of the Fogen camp was only a trick, she realized but did not quite understand. It was simply trick to get her into a specific state of mind, or to lure her later and more important and thus easier to argue point into denying that she said during the interview with De la Rionda: You want that too? Which she indeed she said. And that will now used at a later point by defense to get her her impeached.

    For whatever reason this is called a “proffer”

    To offer or tender, as, the production of a document and offer of the same in evidence

    So what irritated me was really not important at all it was simply to get her into a state of mind. Oh, no don’t put words into my mouth again.

  10. turtlecoal says:

    if RACHEL LIED it was because she didnt want to hurt *feelings*

    A Creepy ASS CRACKA is watching & following me in a car

    THIS NIGGA IS GETTING CLOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    What are you following me for????

    What are you doing around here???

    Why did witness 11 LIE???? SHE SAID HAY HAY HAY WHAT ARE YOU DOING……RACHEL said she heard the same thing!!!! Fuck with our kids BITCH & we will fuck with what you love most

    LLMPAPA /Stateoftheinternet videos told the truth & trent (yall know trent) really broke it down



    No more MR nice guy prosecution team!!!!!

    • SearchingMind says:

      You may be fighting the wrong soldiers, Sir.

      WE here (with the exception of “Dennis” alias “OtherDennis”) seek justice for Trayvon under the leadership of the professor and regardless of Trayvon’s race.

      WE here are of all races under the sun and come from different nations around the globe (mainly the United States). We are not driven our race. Justice for ALL, Protection Of Children/Juveniles and Minority Groups drive us.

      WE here highlight our race ONLY in specific very limited context and ONLY when necessary.


      I hope you get the point.

      That said, WELCOME! Let’s Fight together for The Defenseless Dead Kid.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Let us RESPECT Sybrina and Tracy by HONORING and following the behavior and approach that they are modeling for us.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I believe that the prosecution is putting all the pieces together and will shine and nail it.

      • FactsFirst says:

        I’m so sick of CLONES coming here “PRETENDING” to be “BLACK” with all that “LET’S RIOT” crap. SMDH..

    • SearchingMind says:

      @ turtlecoal,

      FIRST: Dee Dee did NOT lie, “got it?!” If she did not lie there is then no need for you to explain to us why she supposedly “lied”.

      SECOND: Without anyone suggesting that you are a troll, you nonetheless went on the defensive claiming that you are not, and using obscene language. What’s up with that? Now, I am getting suspicious. I guess only time will tell whether or not you are a troll.

      • cielo62 says:

        SearchingMind~ He’s been on my radar since he started. The foul language and attitude are big red flags. Thanks for the confirmation.


  11. turtlecoal says:

    If you think Im a TROLL on this BLOG. FUCK YOU Whoever thinks that.

    I am a BLACK MAN with money & influence, if I killed GEORGE, I would be FREE If I were under Trayvon’s circumstances, running hiding & running again


    I dont want to harm others!!!!!!

    My family knows this, & will fight for that as seen by Trayvon’s family

    They KNOW THEY BOY DONT PLAY SUPERCOP & chase KIDS in the dark night

    As George family Knows he will Do.


    40 years & above in age not noticing that worldstar hip hop gave evidence convicting George, watched by 200,000 on a hiphop WEBSITE & the page went viral afterwards & was watched 150,000 times when the average video is 1-4 minutes this video was 30 minutes long YOU GOTTA PROBLEM HOMIE is on youtube & WSSHH.

    Trayvon is loved & his home girl is being attacked, WE NEED TO ACT NOW

    Rachel is the truth!! She aint Oprah Halle Beyonce MichelleO but I see why Trayvon talked to her. She told the TRUTH no matter WHAT.She knew she wasnt a supermodel, but Trayvon saw her as truth. He knew her since kindergarten & seen her go through trials & tribulations at school & with peers but she was TRUTH!!

    Trayvon saw the truth like the movie” Shallow HAL”with Rachel & I love him more for that.

    So all you thinking I am a troll ,FUCK YOU


    • disappointed says:

      I do not think anyone thought you were a troll. I think the point we were making is this shit should not have to be explained. It is common sense if it has to be explained you are a troll. (not you literally – but you should not have to explain anything this case is based on common sense unless you are a racist) I hope that explains what I meant. 🙂

    • SearchingMind says:

      You may be fighting the wrong soldiers, Sir.

      WE here (with the exception of “Dennis” alias “OtherDennis”) seek justice for Trayvon under the leadership of the professor and regardless of Trayvon’s race.

      WE here are of all races under the sun and come from different nations around the globe (mainly the United States). We are not driven our race. Justice for ALL, Protection Of Children/Juveniles and Minority Groups drive us.

      WE here highlight our race ONLY in specific very limited context and ONLY when necessary.


      I hope you get the point.

      That said, WELCOME! Let’s Fight together for The Defenseless Dead Kid.

  12. John D says:

    Dr. Leatherman nailed it again. Don West is a racist, as is Mark O’ Mara. I think Zimmerman chose them because they shared his hatred of all people with darker skin.

    What I saw on that stand was a sweet, compassionate, highly credible young lady. I could tell she was telling the truth. There were just cultural differences is all.

    Rachel Jenteal was a fantastic witness. West is just a terrible human being.

  13. LeaNder says:

    I made a transcript of the cross examination of Rachel Jeantel by Crump of the only thing they could find on the ABC audio file that was initially propagated as a proof that Crump coached her what to say. In the end all that could be found was something, I am still pretty sure she did not say.

    In doing this what frustrated me most was that in this context the court reporter did not understand at least not all of it. And Rachel was clearly so confused that she did not bother to tell her or elaborate on the central issue probably of a large part of the deposition, there problems with “her voice” or more precisely her speech and that she had not pronounced whatever she said well enough, which now in turn allows the people to read whatever they like into what she said. I doubt she completely understands.

    But considering the long time West and O’Mara has spent with the voice experts he actually should. Maybe they have never quite understood or tried to understand the speech part beyond technical tools and standard that ultimately a core basis will always be phonology.

    Here is my fast transcript. I only used a summary for BDLR’s interjection: See tape 5 close to the end and tape 6 start.

    West: Miss Jeantel I’d like to direct your attention to page 209 of the deposition. I’m gonna give it to you to read and take as much time as you would like. This is the question about what you told Mr. Crump at the telephone interview that the man or George Zimmerman said, when Trayvon Martin said: Why are you following me? Are you oriented a bit?

    RT: (tiny noise, yeah) stretches out hand signalling him to give her the papers.

    West: OK (hands deposition file to her) As you can see here (pointing finger on the page)

    RT: (mumbling something)

    Judge Nelson: You need to read that to yourselves.

    RT: You want me to begin.

    West: No, you can start with line 14 or 15. And you see that’s when the tape itself was played. You remember that?

    RT: Yes

    West: In the deposition we asked about this and we actually played the recording for you.

    RT: Yes, yes.

    West: So take your time to read it and I’d like to ask you a couple of questions about that.

    RT: reads. That’s it?

    West: Yes that’s it. Just that (points at a specific passage)

    RT: closes the files

    West: No! opens it again. Just from file 15 until the line 23.

    RT: OK.

    West: Alright? May I go ahead and ask you a couple of questions about it then?

    [Bernie de la Rionda: interjection – Objection wants to have page 209 to page 212 included

    Nelson tells him he can do that on his redirect]

    West: Miss Jeantel, do you remember being in the deposition in Miami on Wednesday March 13th and we were talking about the same subject …

    RJ: Yes

    West: and I asked you what George Zimmerman said in response to Trayvon Martin, why are you following me? And we actually plaid the recording of that section. Remember?

    RT: Yes.

    West: And

    RT: And I had told you, and you have it on the depo paper, that I rushed on the interview between me and Crump.

    West: I get what your explanation is.

    RT: Yeah

    West: As to why you may have said something or not. But specifically you are in the deposition under oath

    RT: Yes

    West: Having heard the recording. I asked you: On the recording did you say, the man is like, what are you talking about. And your answer was yes, I did say that.

    RT: (longer silence, surprise) What??? Can I see it? (She moves over towards approaching West.)

    West: I am refering to, again to, line 15. Where it says, play it again. And we played a portion of the audio, and I said to you, is that what you said? And your answer is: Yes if I said that in the recording, that’s what I said. And I said. One the recording did you say: The man is like what are you talking about. And your answer is, yes I did say that. Do you remember that?

    RT: (seems to say, really softly, give me a second) Already while West is still speaking she has lowered her eyes to the paper and reads what is written there. And moves back over)

    West: You acknowledge that those were the answers to the question we have just read?

    RT: (she makes a gesture with her hand as if surrendering to what she has just written on the paper, without being quite able to understand) Might have been, might have been. Cause we have the same issue my voice.

    Court scribe: Might have been, I could not understand what you said.

    RT: Might have been (she does not finish for the reporter what she stated above, she clearly is puzzled about that she said it)

    Nelson: Speak in the microphone please.

    RT: Might have been

    West: So is that your answer or not.

    RT: Yes. (how can she not admit, what is there in front of her on paper?)

    West: So what you are saying is, indeed that what you told Crump in this recorded interview that what George Zimmerman said in response to him saying: What you following me or why you are following me; George Zimmerman said: What are you talking about?

    RT: OH, that’s what you are talking about? No!

    West: I think we have to get just the recording itself.

    RT: I had told you. You’re listening?

    West: Yes Mam

    RT: I have told you what happened in the Crump interview, I have rushed on it. Are you listening?

    West: One more time, sorry I was distracted. You told me what?

    RT: I told you during the interview between me and Crump I have rushed on it. And before that interview I had told the Mom, if the officers want to talk to me, I would tell them exactly what happened. And I had told you that on the depo. And I had told you anything, I told you I rushed on it.

    West: If you say you rushed on it do you mean you have not thought it through carefully to be sure you spoke …

    RT: I have told Trayvon part. I told Trayvon part.

    West: You say you rushed on it and you did not think about it carefully enough so that you told it accurately?

    RT: Yes.

    As I said then, I say now. I am not convinced she ever said what all these people want me to hear, maybe I should ask Eric Deggans for help. Or a scholar in AA vernacular. I would trust Rachel anytime but not the Rachel manipulated into answers by West. The real Rachel.

    I really cannot understand why so many even here claim they hear her somehow say it.

    Do I have hallucinations? While all that hear what Diwataman, West and Jeralyn or the earliest one on her comment section that brought it up, see above and some here (Tzar, Whonoze) are right?

    I sensed the moment I watched it, she was somehow tricked.

    • LeaNder says:

      plaid, should be played.

      I noticed that and actually wanted to correct it later, since I wanted to finish the sentence first. And then obviously forgot.

      Now if even some here hear exactly what West wants them to hear in the tape, then his later decision to play it to the jury and let them decide for themselves, may even have worked or could work.

      I’ll check that passage now, which was towards the end of the next day. I cannot tell you how said it makes me to see both Whonoze and Tzar seemingly simply swallow the trick, simple since they witnessed Rachel admitting she had said it. I don’t think it is that easy.

      I trust no one ears but mine, experts on the dialect and or phonetics and of course always the speaker her/himself but only if I can be sure he/she wasn’t somehow tricked into admitting something. Which I still feel happened here.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      I agree……”What are you talking about?” was a question Rachael directed to Crump during that interview in order for him to clarify his question about what Trayvon said.

      West tricked her when he played that Crump recording to Rachael during his interview with with her.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Then in court, West showed her the transcript and confused her further.

      • LeaNder says:

        I contacted Eric Deggans, I wonder if he answers. I want to know this much more solidly.

        Look it is about either I am hallucinating, my knowledge in English and phonetics is much worse than I ever imagined or I can still trust my ears.

        No response apart from people with knowledge in the AA vernacular and phonetics is gonna satisfy me now.

        your response suggests to me, the first option. I am hallucinating. I am aware that was not your intention. 😉

        I hope this response does not double again, I am preparing for the next round.

    • elle says:

      Yes, Leander. When DeeDee said: “What are you talking about?” she was asking West that question. She was not saying that Trayvon or fogen said it. And, West knew exactly what he was doing. But, I thought it was obvious in the courtroom that this was the case. She asked the QUESTION “What are you talking about?” That was not a statement.

      • LeaNder says:

        Oh, elle, I remember she said that. But it seems we got our wires crossed now. My puzzle is not with whatever Rachel said in court, my puzzle is with what she supposedly said in the ABC audio file, or the first segment she talks about the exchange between the exchange between Fogen and Trayvon she overheard, before the connection was disconnected.

        Or more generally what you hear her say here.

        what do you understand?

        luielle 😉

  14. Digger says:

    Professor Leatherman, I read but hardly ever write anymore here
    because I haven’t contributed but I hope you will accept this to say I am proud of and grateful to you for standing firm in your support of Justice for Trayvon Martin.

  15. Boyd says:

    I still believe both lawyers know they are full of shit , they know Fogen is guilty. They are praying for bigots and dumb people to be on the jury.

    Up In Pennsylvania this case would be a slam dunk. “So YOU got out of the car and fought a kid?”

  16. fauxmccoy says:

    regarding phone records released

    many IP addys listed for zimmerman, a quick perusal of looking those up leads to Tmobile. husband and i discussing likelihood of those entries being wifi calling – but nothing definitive to state at this point.

  17. ay2z says:

    Dr. Maya Angelou, “Finding My Voice”

    Pray that Rachel can continue to find hers and have the support she needs along the way.

  18. Mary Davis says:

    I have not looked at the photos and don’t intend to. I have seen enough hate already. I must say I do pray for the racists. God said He would make your enemies your footstool and I believe that. No matter what the verdict is, fogen will never get away with murdering Trayvon, simply because he killed him in cold blood. Hopefully we will all see just what God’s plan is.

    Good night everyone. Need to get up early for tomorrow.

    Hoodies Up.

  19. My Forehead Tho says:

    Speaking of jokes, will the jurors be allowed to hear the hoodie joke Zimmerman made in jail?

    • Sophia33 says:

      This is the first I am hearing about this. What did he say?

      Sorry, for most of last year, I was living in another country so somethings I missed. Hence the reason for many of my questions which are known or obvious to everyone else.

      • aussie says:

        That was the absolute last straw for me, not going to give him another chance after hearing that.

        He was talking with Shellie about a hotel and limousine and maybe one as a decoy, and instructing her where the rooms had to be in relation to the carpark etc etc…. planning how they’d go when he gets out of the jail, on bail.

        And Shellie was worried someone might recognise him, and he said no worry, I’ll just put my hoodie on. (giggle giggle smirk).

        There were many days’ worth of tapes from the jail. I don’t see them bringing in any of them really. They mostly relate just to Shellie’s perjury trial.

        They can get him for Murder 2, no need for a nasty twisted joke to prove he’s no good.

      • My Forehead Tho says:

        The joke is here (unfortunately the clip is too short, but you should be able to hear part of his chuckling before the clip ends):

    • Sophia33 says:

      You know what? After what I just saw, I don’t want to know what he said.

      Time for his sorry ass to be put in jail.

      • MichelleO says:

        No love lost for them, but it was really a shame when SheLie attempted to derail the court session with some idiotic b.s. she and her friend dreamed up about calling someone an m.f. These people never stop scheming to do someone dirty.

        • Woow! says:

          The ultimate justice would be for her fat ass to spend some time in jail for perjury.

        • ladystclaire says:

          One would think that ShelLie would have enough of lying, seeing that she is facing jail time herself. I hope they do put her fat illiterate ass in jail. she was there on the night when her worse half, murdered a child.

        • Malisha says:

          Boo hoo somebody called them a MF? Boo fukkin WHOOOO!

          Stuff like that makes me think these people are unredeemable. No shame at all. I don’t want them in the same race as me — the human race.

    • Soulcatcher says:

      I thought that would be a good closing. Start with the hoodie, then play the Hanity section no regrets and Gods plan.

      I also think if they were ever to do a tv special showing foggen, clips from papaz, mommaz, the letter she wrote, the decient American, ect. I’d show the big deal they made over people thinking he is white, with his drivers license showing white, doctors record where he marks white, and other docs he says he’s white. Then how he thinks of himself as hispaniic, and Afro peruvian thing with the supposed picture of his family with AA roots, and Papa z saying he’s never heard anything racist out of Foggen, after all he’s a minority himself, and JR and his statements of him not being a racist.

      Then I’d show his myspace comments about Mexicans, Jr’s tweeters about the picture says more than words thing, what his cousin said about the family being racist, the interview with his Indian co-worker, his prev calls to Nen on AA’s , the Interview with AA guy about his AA friend who just moved in the neighborhood, abd how foggen approached them in the same way, his friend Taffee, and his you grow corn you get corn, it is what it is comment, and whatever else. Id add in the recording of fn coons, thats what i hear, assholes comment, Hanity comments,hoodie joke, and end it with Papaz comment about AA are the racist’s.

      I’m pretty sure no-one could deny Fogen has color issues.

  20. IMBack says:

    Why would Trayvon’s Stepmother do this interview at this time? I don’t get this. Seems selfish to do this now

    • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

      @IMBack, I am picking up she is jealous, a little messy too, and that’s why she did it.

      • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

        I forgot to add, she reminds me of the Erica Cane character. She wants it to be about her, but she is not Trayvon’s biological mother. I know women like her and they’re full of dung and manipulative. Smh! Matter of fact, I have a cousin like her and Lords know she can put on an act that deserves an Oscar.

      • IMBack says:

        Yea she has a bad agenda going on. It may be good that she waited this late to speak out because they jury will not see nor hear about this until this trial is over.

        • Xena says:

          Alicia was on Dr. Phil’s when he had on the Ostermans, so this isn’t her first time speaking about Trayvon and the case.

          • IMBack says:

            I think the defense will bager Sabrina about this. “How could you know its your sons voice if he spent 14yrs with his stepmother” I hope West doesn’t go there.

      • MichelleO says:

        This was definitely the wrong time to do this, but if Trayvon was raised along with her own children from the age of three; I can understand where she is coming from. She’s loves Trayvon. He was such a cutie when he was small. She feels that he is part of her and her children’s family. I guess this is the only way she felt that she could reach out to the Fulton/Martin family and be heard. It must be devastating.

      • bettykath says:

        She’s hurt. She was part of Trayvon’s life for 14 years. Whatever the behavior’s, she’s hurt.

    • Alicia should know better than to come with bs at this critical time. She’s mad b/c Tracy stopped talking to her and she wants him back. That’s what this is all about. Alicia wants to be with Tracy and that’s not happening. Go sit your ass down, Alicia!

      • Rachael says:

        Maybe I’m weird, but I totally understand where she is coming from.

        • Rachael says:

          Anyway, no I don’t think she wants to be with Tracy, I just think she loved Trayvon very much, is grieving his loss something terrible and feels a bit invisible. I totally understand. I’ve been there. It hurts.

          • MichelleO says:


          • greenwarrior4 says:

            That’s totally what I got from her interview. She was hurt that she wasn’t acknowledged as grieving deeply. She raised Trayvon and, clearly, felt towards him as a mother would. I think it shows serious insensitivity on the part of both of Trayvon’s blood parents.

          • cielo62 says:

            greenwarrior~ But NOW is NOT THE TIME to act out! And especially NOT in a public forum.


          • Malisha says:

            Greenwarrior, we do not know any of the background of the relationshps here. We DO know that anything that came out about Trayvon’s history growing up was being subjected to attacks by the racists and that Tracy and Sybrina, Trayvon’s actual and legal parents, withstood it all. So I have no criticism for them for any perceived slight they may have delivered to any third person. This is not a post-mortem custody battle.

        • IMBack says:

          I mean yea but not on national tv. She seems to be exploiting this situaton to her advantage for her benefits. I have hardly heard anything negative about her and I am curious why she feels she needs to get the record straight? Like whomever were spreading rumors seems more local and maybe she should have stayed with the LOCAL News.

        • MichelleO says:

          You’re not weird. When I first heard about this, people had made it worse than it really is. She loved and raised Trayvon and is concerned about this case like a loving relative should be. This is her stand to let Trayvon’s mother and father know that she feels that she is family, and should not be left out. It is the ultimate decision of the mother and father of this boy; but if she were a good enough step-parent, she should definitely be included in on some details. She may not have been his real mom, but she raised him for fourteen years. That’s a long time.

          • Rachael says:

            Thank you for understanding. She was his real mom, just not his biological mom. I grew up in a family like that. There were no stepchildren, no stepbrother, no stepsister. We were children, brothers and sisters.

          • Alicia was not Trayvon’s real mother. It’s disrespectful to Sybrina to refer to her as his real mother. Sybrina does not need more grief added with hurtful comments.

          • Rachael says:

            Someone isn’t not your “real” mom just because they are not your biological mom. That doesn’t make your biological mom any less your mom, but being a stepmom doesn’t make you any less a real mom. If you have ever had or been a step parent, you understand this.

            My dad was not my brother or sister’s biological dad, but until the day he died, he was their dad. Not that their biological dad wasn’t their dad too but heck, If you don’t have kids, stepkids or a heart, I can’t explain it to you.

          • Rachael, referring to Alicia as Trayvon’s real mother is offensive. Do you know Sybrina personally? Zimmerman took her son’s life and now you’re taking her motherhood. It’s all kinds of offensive. The woman has been stabbed in the heart enough. It’s over between Tracy and Alicia and she needs to move on. People at the CTH repeat this drivel and we don’t need that kind of talk at this site since Sybrina or family members might read here. I believe Natalie reads here b/c I have seen the Professor’s links posted on her facebook page. She put them there. You don’t know anything about Sybrina personally to judge Alicia as Trayvon’s real mother. I have a step-son who is white that I love dearly. His dad and I are divorced but he still calls my kids his brothers and sister. But I know my place when it comes to his mother. Alicia needs to move on with her life.

          • Malisha says:

            Her position should be “Trayvon was a wonderful fabulous terrific non-violent non-thug kid; I KNEW HIM VERY WELL.”


    • One of my good friends wrote this

      See, seee, seee. Tracy has moved on to another woman, case closed. Don’t be hurt because you didnt sit ON THE FRONT ROW AT THE FUNERAL. Tracy has closed your chapter, period. What this woman does not understand about Anderson Cooper is that the CNN researchers will dig into why she and Tracy have divorced and her 15 minutes of not getting to sit on the front row drama will turn into the longest 15 minutes of disaster she will ever experience.

      • MichelleO says:

        I don’t agree. She loved her step-son. Trayvon has step-brothers and sisters, apparently.

        • Of course she loves her step-son. I have no doubt about that. But she is angry b/c Tracy has stopped talking to her. She mentioned speaking to channel 10 about the case and told the reporterTracy has told her the same thing and after that she says Tracy stopped talking. Now is not the time for drama. It’s much too critical a time.

          • MichelleO says:

            I don’t blame her. If I raised a kid as my own for fourteen years and people were trying to lock me out of information about said kid; I would do everything I could to be heard. It’s necessary for the grieving process. Tracy needs to stop being an ass, because if this lady was good enough to be his wife and step-mother to his child for fourteen years; she’s good enough to be included in what’s happening. This is part of her grieving process. It’s probably therapeutic for her just to be heard; to say I am here for you too, Trayvon. Anyway, she didn’t say anything harmful. Talked full of love for Trayvon and stated that he has step-siblings.

          • Alicia needs to respect Sybrina and Tracy’s wishes. If they wanted her there she’d be front and center. Tracy is with Brandy and IIRC he’s getting ready to marry her.

          • Shari says:

            Oh give me a break. Am I going to deny her the opportunity to grieve? Of course not! I have never met Trayvon and I have been moved by his death. He lived with her so of course she will grieve. What I will not support is her doing these national interviews, they aren’t necessary and she made a comment that may hurt Sybrina. She said that she felt Trayvon wanted to live with her and some other things. The trial has gone on for one week, it’s not even almost over. She should not have done this now, or even at all. If she was truly thinking of Trayvon she would sit and trial watch with us, donate to the Justice Fund, maybe even post on sites about the case to defend his reputation. She could have simply told us a nice story/memory about him anon on a blog.

            What a selfish so and so…Go away. So mean of her to spread this stuff out where now the kkkonservative nuthouse is posting all of Tracy and Sybrinas business.

          • Girlp says:

            Very bad timing, the crazy tree nuthouse has been exploting this all year, saying Sabrina did not raise nor did Sabrina care about her son and saying Trayvon wanted to live with her is the worst thing she could say it makes it seem Sabrina did not have time for Trayvon nor did she care to give him time however it seems from the over readacted data realeased from O’Mara just the opposite so I do wonder what she is getting at and why now. We should be supporting Tracy and Sabrina right now we forget Sabrina and Tracy may be taking the stand and this is more ammunition for West and O’Mara to throw at them, they already want to present Trayvon as a troubled neglected child who was headed towards gangs and Trayvon’s stepmother does not help. IMO she was having trouble dealing with the fact that her husband had a relationship with his ex. Tracy and Sabrina had joint custody so of course he was at Tracy’s a lot my parents had joint custody until my mother got permisson to move to her home state. Then we had visitation (all summer and Christmas), as well as other times when were able. My dad’s wife was jealous of my mom’s relationship with my dad as well even though my mother wanted nothing to with him other than what related to my sister and me. IMO I’m seeing hurt not saying she did not love Trayvon but if she loves him wait until it’s over to confront Tracy now is not the time.

    • MollyK says:

      It’s all about her.

      • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

        Exactly! She is a manipulator and is trying to get her way.

        I am too old of a cat to be fooled by a Kitten. She is a kitten under me and I see straight through her.

        • MichelleO says:

          I don’t see what you saw. All I heard was an expression of love and concern for her step-child. She spoke lovingly of the boy and said that he would never do the things that those in the fogen camp are saying he’s guilty of. That he was a gentle child that loved children. If the child that I raised for fourteen years were suddenly murdered in this manner, I would want to be included in the process too—-a least thrown a lifeline of how things are moving along. She too is grieving. No time to be nasty and create unnecessary divisions. I could see if she were on cable carrying on like Taaffe or Robbie-the-Racist. She’s just saying she loves the boy and that he has step-siblings, and everyone is concerned.

          • Rachael says:

            I agree with you totally.

          • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

            Yes, but she also keeps saying TRACY does not want to talk to me, TRACY won’t call me. Tracy…Tracy…Tracy.

          • Soulcatcher says:

            I agree with you 100% Michelle, and Rachel. Is Tracy the father of her girls? Either way, he has been in their lives for 14 years, so if he is not speaking to her, what about the girls? I don’t know the whole story, and it’s probably non of my business, I think the timing may not be right, but non the less if this is true, I sympathize with her. This is the time for Trayvon, under different circumstances I would have alot morr to say.

            My husband and I have 6 children, 3 by my previous marriage, and 3 by his. My 3 call my husband dad, and his 3 call me mom. I can say he has been more of a father then their bio has ever been, and from what I have been told, his ex has never been much of a mother. When my step-daughter passed away a couple of years ago, her mother wrote an obituary in her local town newspaper, and acknowleged herself and her new husband, and the acknowledged my husband as the father, and left me out. I can’t say i wasn’t bothered by it, I just wrote it off.

            As a side, we have been raising our Grandson who is 4. He calls us mom and dad, and calls his mom, sometimes mom or by her first name. His father is not in his life. My husband who really has no blood relation to him and is black, and he is half american indian and half white, are inseperable.

          • Tee says:

            The problem is this its a time for everything and now is not the time. This man don’t have time to coddle her, he don’t have time to updates her if she wants to be coddle or kept in the loop she must find a way. If my child was murdered and then demonised, I’m not thinking of anyone else but my baby. My main focus would be seeking justice for my child and I wouldn’t stop until I ceased breathing. How do you expect him to keep her updated on something so delicate, the wrong word could be twisted for he media and then the defence too take advantage of. She has been out talking to the media all she had to do is said Tracy said this and it would be a feeding fest. I am sure their attorney told him to not talk with anyone about the case except Sabrina.

      • KittySP says:

        @mollyK- absolutely it’s all about her. No one is discounting her genuine love for Trayvon, and doesn’t sympathize with her loss. However, the moment she went from speaking about Trayvon, to “I WAS THE ONE AT THE GAMES, AND I WASN’T ALLOWED TO SIT IN FRONT ROW AT THE FUNERAL…and making this all about her feelings. It be came quite clear what her true intentions were. It was selfish, pety, inappropriate, and if this has been her behavior and mindset since they divorced, then it’s no wonder she’s kept out of the loop.

    • MichelleO says:

      God bless you, step-family. You loved Trayvon too. That entire family is probably asking her all the time “Have you heard from Tracy? What’s going on?” A word or two shouldn’t hurt anybody. It’s important for everyone in this young man’s life to get some closure and to move on. I feel for the siblings left out of the process, and with no answers; they loved their step-brother too.

    • dianetrotter says:

      What the heck? This is too cold. Planning an interview, she should put it together better than that. Rachel had to testify and did great. This lady planned to be on television. You can love him from the 2nd or 3rd row. Reminds me of Bobby Brown and his entourage.

      • I concur, dianetrotter! Love him from the 2nd or 3rd row. No one needs drama at this critical time.

      • Tee says:

        It’s crazy because something so small shouldn’t even matter, who cares where you sat, i rather had sat on a hot plate then to be anywhere in their with my son laying in a casket. She is no longer a step parent. Yes you love him & he you, but the situation has changed and you must fall in line with those changes. In our community she know damn well that she’ would not be sitting in the front row with his mother that wouldn’t happen in a million years unless Trayvon was living with her at the time of his death.

    • Girlp says:

      Looks like she never got use to the fact her husband had an ex and a child she was insecure in her relationship with Tracy and his relationship with Sabrina….Seen this plenty of this before. Thank God my mom was not like this.

  21. diary73 says:

    Out of the mouths of babes.

  22. Ty Flair says:

    Do trail start at 8:30 for motion hearing in the morning?

  23. Malisha says:

    LLMPapa is OUR secret weapon.

  24. HereslookingatYou says:

    God forgive me I know it’s not right to hate but at this moment ..

    • smokeegyrl says:

      You can hate the behavior but not the person… I don’t know Fogen to hate him but I surely can say I hate what he has done to this world by his actions and by his behavior of killing Trayvon Martin.

    • My Forehead Tho says:


      Smokeegyrl is correct, though it is fairly hard not to hate somebody who murdered a kid in cold blood, defamed him after death, joked about him in jail, and profited off of him.

    • God forgive what I am feeling. Zimmerman and his supporters are so cruel. But I feel hate right now and it’s been bubbling for a year. There is a despicable facebook page that says RIP Trayvon but with his death photo used in all kind of horrible ways. It will make you cry. People have reported it but facebook refuses to take it down. They say there is no hate there.

      I asked folks on facebook to help me report the offensive page but facebook wouldn’t.. until Global Grind got involved. Two pages have been removed but more pop back up. Facebook will remove someone’s account in an instant but this they won’t. I just don’t get it. It takes a really deranged person to publish something so disgusting. This shows us a window into their soul. I knew people would exploit the death photo once it was made public. Evil has no bounds. Pray for me b/c I know I am not suppose to have these feelings.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        We were reacting to this up above.

        I have never see anything so heinous and diabolical. I am horrified.

        I don’t think God minds you hating evil, SouthernGirl2.

        • Sophia33 says:

          I am horrified beyond belief. I can’t believe anyone would do this. I’m shaking right now.

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            I wish we were all together in one place (not cyber space) tonight.

        • Sophia33 says:


          I agree with you. I wish we were all together. OMG! HOW CAN YOU BE SO FUCKING CRUEL?!!

          Sorry if I offended anyone with the language. But DAMN!

      • Ty Flair says:

        SouthernGirl I know how you feel I use to go on those crazy facebook sites to see how those crazy people think,all I was doing was setting myself up to get angry. There are alot of evil people doing this to get people like us upset,they could careless about this trail they hate black people period. I’m not telling you what to do but if you can just away from those type of sites.

      • Sophia33 says:

        They have no effin souls. NONE!

        And this is a double edged sword as far as the media is concerned. On the one hand, this heinous behavior needs to be exposed. On the other hand, this will put Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton through more hell.

        Dear God, please help all of us.

        • Help us all, Lord! This is too much. *tears*

        • You all have thoughtful comments says:


          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            Let us remember that

            Light is stronger than darkness.
            Love is stronger than hate.
            Goodness is stronger than evil.

            We have the Light.
            We have the Love.
            We have the Goodness.

            We therefore have the strength to overcome and defeat this evil!

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            Now I am going to reread my words multiple times…..I just gotta settle down and not be so upset.

      • Xena says:

        SG@. Please don’t feel guilty. We must recognize evil and call it what it is.

  25. disappointed says:

    I hope when Fogen’s text messages are released to public there are photos of MaryJane farms. Not a single plant, the whole damn farm. He disgust me. Night all! See you bright and early.

  26. HereslookingatYou says:

    Thank you LLMPapa

  27. Two sides to a story says:

    Boom. You hit it again, LLMPapa!

    • Sophia33 says:

      Just like you said all along LLMPapa!

    • HereslookingatYou says:

      The Murderer purposely put that gun under the button…no way no how that shot ended up under that button other wise

      • aussie says:

        The clothing was twisted and pulled down. So if the button ended over the wound, it would have been further down when the shot was fired. Of course he’d try not to hit it, in case it turned into shrapnel.

        • HereslookingatYou says:

          Actually the murderer does admit this ,He says he moved one hand out of the way in order not to shoot it,,which in effect says hia hand was holding Trayvon other than that it would not have been in danger of being shot, I hope the jury pays attention the murderer confesses right there he was holding Trayvon.

    • My Forehead Tho says:

      Very nicely done.

      I guess this, like the blood flow on Fogen’s head, the location of Trayvon’s body, and lack of Fogen’s DNA on Trayvon’s hands, is just another coincidence.

    • Xena says:

      @LLMPapa. Thanks for putting that portion on video. When I heard that question asked and answered at trial, I knew that the prosecution has an expert witness explanation lined up and will put the icing on the cake.

  28. Sophia33 says:

    I wonder if the guy who first came out made any other calls for George. He called his wife. I wonder if he called anyone else?

    • aussie says:

      Nobody ever asked him. Nor how he had the number.

      • bettykath says:

        everyone’s doing a great job in deciphering the phone calls.

        The first guy out who called SZ got her number from fogen according to his testimony. He put fogen’s phone in fogen’s pocket then called SZ on his own phone.

  29. IMBack says:

    Did anyone see Jamie Foxx sport his Trayvon Martin T Shirt during the BET awards when he received his award? I was hoping somebody would send a shout out to Rachal but I guess that would jepordize her testimony.

    • riisey007 says:

      Yes I just saw that on the awards but he was wearing a black one last year. He has been down with the cause from day 1.

  30. Puck says:

    Rachel calls Trayvon at 7:12:06 and the call lasts 218 seconds (3 minutes 38 seconds) to 7:15:43. That’s the call that ends with the phone on the grass and “get off, get off” before disconnecting.

    • disappointed says:

      Puck so according to Fogen Trayvon punched him in nose, he swatted fell had head bashed, shimmied screamed for help in less than 30 seconds? First 911 call came in at 7:16:11 right?

      • Puck says:

        Rachel didn’t hear any voice after “get off, get off,” so the call disconnected 24 seconds before 7:16:11, by which Trayvon had already started screaming, since he’s already gotten to “I’m begging you.” So GZ had him howling within 30 seconds or so.

      • Xena says:

        @disappointed. Don’t forget to add the verbal exchange, looking for his cell phone, and stumbling 40 feet towards Trayvon before the alleged head bashing.

  31. Tee says:

    I think that’s when I threw he phone down.

  32. Sophia33 says:

    Also, shouldn’t there be a recording of that 911 call that he made at 7:18?

    • disappointed says:

      If he called the NEN they may not have picked up because all the calls coming into 911. Then jon came out.
      Also he called NEN back at 7:18. 911 would have showed up as 911. Tmobile keeps track of the phone numbers dialed. TMobile has no way of knowing that 911 and NEN is the same number so they would not have used the NEN number they would have used emergency 911 numbers to record call. Hope that makes sense.

  33. Sophia33 says:

    If you notice he called Cleveland, Ohio that night after the shooting. I just find that a bit curious.

    • Rachael says:

      Not curious at all if it was a cell phone. You keep your number wherever you go if you want. I have a Seattle number, it is a Seattle number whether I’m here or in New York. Wonder if the flight marshall had a Cleveland number.

      • Sophia33 says:

        True. I forgot about that. Brain not functioning. I am from Chicago and still have my number even though I am currently living elsewhere temporarily. I should have thought about that.

        Who was the flight marshall? He called that number about 45 minutes after the shooting and called it a few more times.

        • elle says:

          He should not have had a phone 45 minutes after the shooting. Is there really an outgoing call 45 minutes after the shooting? Wth?

          • Puck says:

            Those are texts, which are in Pacific time, so you have to add 3 hours. They came in at 11:14 from 321 578-2204. GZ’s next call is at 12:29 a.m., to 703 867-3557 in Falls Church, VA. If the Alexandria, VA number 703 859-6010 is Osterman (since I doubt GZ and his father were texting before the hunt), then they were texting back and forth before the hunt. The last text sent from GZ to that number was at 7 p.m.

            So if the Alexandria number is indeed Osterman, he was texting when he was at the bank, and this could have been the tip-off of where Trayvon was walking. What time did Trayvon leave the 7/11?

            He was also texting with 407 756-9916, a Winter Park, FL number. There’s a long exchange from 6 p.m. to 6:25 p.m., with five texts from that number at 6:07.

          • elle says:

            Wow Puck, thank you. The different times is really confusing me. It makes better sense now.

    • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

      What’s Frank Taafe’s number?

  34. colin black says:

    excuse me if this a dence question but does that one min call on foggagges records were those records in shellies name ?
    And if so did he phone non emergency back almost simoultacy fireing the trigger an shooting TRAYVON

    Or are those realy shellies cell records HELP?

    • disappointed says:

      Colin I believe the idiot called NEN back after shooting instead of 911, Who the hell shoots someone and calls NEN?

      • Puck says:

        That number seems to be a general number:

        • Puck says:

          As in, “If you know the extension you wish to reach, enter it now. Otherwise, please stay on the line” and it goes to NEN, or perhaps “press 1 to be connected to the non-emergency line.”

        • disappointed says:

          Puck it is but on a cell phone bill it is listed as 911. have tmobile so if I were to call NEN it would show up that way but 911 is just that 911 Emergency call. Could be different in Florida but I don’t think it is.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Maybe Fogen forgot how to dial 911.

        • Malisha says:

          Maybe someone told Fogen to stop dialing 911 after he did so many “crying-wolf” calls. Maybe he called NEN because he was on a list or something.

          • Malisha says:

            HEY WAITAMINUTE! That’s also a possibility: He might have been told to stop calling 911 so he went out that night to make sure an NEN call would turn into something deadly to make him have to defend himself (and the victimized neighborhood) to prove that his calls to 911 were very important and he should not be restricted! He might have needed a way to SHOW them that he was a valid and important 911-er and a violent incident with a “fucking punk” was just the thing to help him prove it!

            Interesting. He emphasizes to Serino that he did not call 911, that he called the non-emergency #, and then Serino asks which number and he recites it. He does not say, as anybody would, “I’m so MAD at myself; I should have dialed 911.”

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Recessed until 1pm. Ofc Singleton on the stand. We heard the audio tape of gz’s first narrative under questioning. If you didn’t already know the distances and times, it would not have made much sense, but you would not really know it was not possible, so far.

            However this segment will conflict badly with the video questioning that comes next and even worse when the walk thru reenactment is played.

            Hopefully Bernie has some time and distance studies to show that there are impossible things being reported by gz. Perhaps he has an officer or someone who has done these studies and attempted to match or line up the event with the NeN call and the clock.

      • Malisha says:

        He meant to call NEN — needed to reach one of his police buddies to begin putting in the FIX.

    • Rachael says:

      Where do you see phone records? What am I missing?

    • smokeegyrl says:

      who lives in Ashland TN? Where does Osterman lives?

    • aussie says:

      Colin they were in Shellie’s name but they are entered into evidence and DEFENDANT’s phone. Looks like he may have tried to call NEN again. He must not have gotten through, because they never produced the tape with all the other tapes of him calling.

      Nice excuse, “you know that coonpunk just nearly killed me….”

    • fauxmccoy says:

      colin asks

      Or are those realy shellies cell records HELP?

      being a tmobile customer on a family plan — i can tell you that the bill is in my husband’s name (as this one is in shellie’s) but that we are on a ‘family plan’ which includes 4 phones. the monthly bill has a break down of activity on each phone, but all phones are billed to the husband.

      does that help?

  35. crazy1946 says:

    However it was not RJ, nor anyone who has testified as of yet!
    The star witness who might be too cowardly to testify is simply George Zimmerman! That’s right he is the one and only star witness that could testify in this trial!

    • colin black says:

      He is no star witness..

      He is the MON STAR witless coward.

      • crazy1946 says:

        colin black, I disagree, he will be the star witness for the state! It will not matter what he does or does not say, he will ensure his own conviction, but then again his not testifying will also do the same…. IMO

      • Rachael says:

        MON STAR witness – yep!!

    • Tee says:

      He may not take the stand, but that would have only worked in his favor if he didn’t open his mouth so much. So I say we’ll hear all of his versions either way. He’s damned if he do & damned if he don’t.

  36. turtlecoal says:

    WHITE PEOPLE need to understand Trayvon was not racist.

    I am a African american male who lived in South Central LA then moved to Orange county at 13. I lived in Buena park, CA but Cypress, CA is my city were I spent most of my time. If you knew Orange county in the 90’s there were hardly any blacks. I went to middle school & high school with Chris Dorner.Chris Dorner( & yes we called him by his full name cause there were alot of people named Chris) was a kid who didnt get it, we black kids from the innercity knew police brutality, we have been or seen our family members abused by the L.A police force who mostly lived in Orange county CA, But Chris Dorner never experienced it. We seen tanks in our streets in South Central LA in 1992 DID anyone read that FUCKING TANKS, I am a war vet & was with a tanker unit in KOREA & a RECON team in IRAQ so I seen some shit, but knowing now that the TANKS was in our streets WOOOW. I hadnt seen Chris Dorner since 1997. Mr Fried was a jewish principal who kicked Chris Dorner out cause he protected a rich kid who was stealing from Chris Dorner & we all know who did it & He kicked out a black kid for fighting a kid who threw up the HEIL HITLER SALUTE DURING THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIENCE TO THE AMERICAN FLAG. He kicked all the black males out mainly cause 20 black guys were fucking police officers daughters & they made calls to the school cause the dudes would be half naked trying to run from thier daughters room & it was consenting sex since they were coupled up at schools with alot of PDA. Chris Dorner killed a innocent so fuck him, cause we told him that the LAPD was the biggest GANG IN L.A. But Chris Dorner wasnt racist & niether am I. We hood kids just had more experience.

    Trayvon Martin knew that a Creepy ass Cracka was looking at him & was following him for no reason besides the fact he was black, most black males know this when we see it & he thought this Creepy ass Cracka was looking at him *AT* him for no other reason besides NIGGER = CRIMINAL=THUG = I HATE NIGGERS just to HATE NIGGERS & you so happen to be a NIGGER or this Creepy ass Cracka was A RAPIST,A KIDNAPPER or MUGGER OR MURDERER & was Trayvon wrong on his assumptions? He gave insight to the racism & prejudice Black males see it & react to.

    Trayvon reaction to this was to run & hide & run again until he couldnt run no more CAUSE HE WAS TIIIIIRED!!!!!! & the *NIGGA* got close=WHAT ARE YOU FOLLOWING ME FOR? = Trayvon Martin

    • Judy75201 says:

      I know Trayvon’s reference was nothing more than a description of a man following him. I would have called fogenpig much worse.

      I didn’t even know Trayvon, yet I still miss him.

      • turtlecoal says:

        You hit the nail on the head, but RACHEL clears it up for me as a male, She said the guy looking at Trayvon might be a “Rapist” Trayvon responded with “quit playing”. Trayvon sensed danger looking at him & he knew it was serious & as a male I will tell you today & only today(cause it’s GUY CODE tuff talk ), Trayvon was scared shitless by his saying “quit playing”. RACHEL didnt know what he was looking at or who was looking & following him. Trayvon knew it though

    • Tzar says:

      whoever needs an explanation of this is probably to racist to give a fuck about the explanation and most likely trolling lol

    • Two sides to a story says:

      My parents have lived in Orange County for over 40 years and I’m glad to see the diversity here now. It used to ooze of white conservative privilege that made me feel really uneasy.

  37. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    We are a caring, giving community. We CAN have an effect!

    We are strong. All of us can help to make a better world.

    *****Let’s brainstorm and list some positive actions (like the Facebook boycott mentioned above or petitions, etc.) that we can take now.

    *****What are your ideas of other positive, constructive ways to stand up and put pressure on those promoting racism ??

    Let’s not forget:

    We are the world, we are the children
    We are the ones who make a brighter day
    So lets start giving
    There’s a choice we’re making
    We’re saving our own lives
    Its true we’ll make a better day
    Just you and me

    When you’re down and out, there seems no hope at all
    But if you just believe there’s no way we can fall
    Let us realize that a change can only come
    When we stand together as one

  38. EdgySF says:

    Stand with Rachel: Put Buillies on Notice

    (MoveOn petition)

  39. Leelee says:

    Just found Zimmerman’s published phone records.

    Click to access June_27_Exhibits_and_Identification_List.pdf

      • disappointed says:

        OMG It just dawned on me! What if an officer did call for his location and that is why he shot him? Kind of like times UP!

        • disappointed says:

          Leelee thank you! I do not think that is all of them. There are no text messages and apparently Fogen thought it to be cool to talk about Tracy Martin. What an ass, Fogen kills Tracy’s son and from what I understand then Fogen trashed the man! Some of those records are also Rachel and Jenna I think. Hard to read.

        • Puck says:

          The 7:18 call is outgoing to NEN. The next incoming call isn’t until 8:14.

          • Tzar says:

            add three hours to that 8:14 since it is a text

          • Puck says:

            Yeah I just figured out which were texts, and that they’re in pacific time while the calls are in eastern time. Everything’s all mixed up.

        • aussie says:

          He told Hannity I think.. “I was running out of time”.

          There are 3 voice calls — 6.48 incoming from an Orlando or Winterpark area, 2 outgoing to Sanford police (7.08 and 7.18, 5 and 1 minutes respectively). The calls after 8 pm are incoming SMS messages. The long numbers starting with 217 are IPs, that is internet, that could be auto-checking for emails or some such.

          Thats one incoming possible tipoff, 1 call to NEN (recorded) one attempted call to NEN possibly not answered.

          • bettykath says:

            a few of fogen’s calls.

            6:48 pm incoming from 407-731-055 for 3 minutes
            7:08 pm to 407-688-5070 for 5 min
            7:18 pm to 407-577-5070 for 1 min
            8:04 pm to for o min
            8:14 pm from 321-578-2204 for 1 min
            8:14 pm from 321-578-2204 for 1 min
            9:04 pm to for 0 min
            11:06 pm to for 0 min
            next day
            12:29 am Falls Church VA 703-867-3557 for 6/8? min
            12:48 am Sanford FL 321-15782204 for 4 min

          • Puck says:

            6:48 call is from Shellie.

          • Tzar says:

            @Bettykah some of those are texts (with D next to them)

          • Malisha says:

            6:48 pm call from Shellie? Woah — he said they were home together (remember “mentored the kids”) before he set out for Target to do the week’s shopping? He said that on Hannity. They were home; after they mentored the kids, he set out for Target to do the week’s shopping.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          disappointed asks

          OMG It just dawned on me! What if an officer did call for his location and that is why he shot him? Kind of like times UP!

          i would think we would see something indicating ‘incoming’ at the appropriate time if that were the case.

          • type1juve says:

            Remember Fogen did tell Sean to have the officer call him when he arrived there.

          • ic2fools says:

            @type1juve you’ll find this interesting:

            and remember Bernie said in Court to JN: fogen hannity interview and the times fogen spoke in public that was a GOD Send to the State:

            auntiebjw video God’s Plan v God Sent Part 3 ‘how soon did the cop arrive’ (to see a blatant lie why he yelled for help also watch Part 1 God Sent

            fogen told hannity: he walked across the sidewalk onto his street retreatview circle where he thought he would meet an police officer
            he had called LLMPapa video ‘Who did He call?:

          • fauxmccoy says:

            yes, but the phone records do not show an incoming call at the appropriate times, unless i am overlooking something big.

    • Leelee says:

      Incoming mobile call to Zimmerman Feb 26 21012 at 6:48pm from 407-731-0055

      • Leelee says:

        That number 407-731-0055 seems to be another cellphone of his… maybe his wife’s. The call is listed as 3 minutes

        The number is listed on his Police application:

        George M. Zimmerman, 1874 Valleywood Way, Lake Mary, Florida 32746 (407-435-2400) (407-731-0055)

        • Leelee says:

          I am now speculating that it was his wife that tipped him off about Trayvon’s presence at the mailboxes. The timing of the wife’s call at 6:48 works perfectly with Rachel’s version of events, which is that Trayvon was at the mailboxes at that time.

          • disappointed says:

            No wonder shellie cried so hard that night, puke!

          • Puck says:

            GZ gets a call from the Alexandria VA number at 18:04. He sends a text to two numbers at 18:04 — these are listed after the phone call so I assume he sent them after the call.

          • aussie says:

            OR, say Osterman is telling the truth, she rang him to say I am going to have dinner at my Dad’s seeing you didn’t get enough money to go shopping, and you can eat whatever you like (for 40c). So he’s hungry and mad.

            This timing doesn’t seem right. If Trayvon was at the mailboxes at 6.48 and didn’t move until after he “circled GZ” then he’s there until well after the NEN call starts. Which is 20 minutes later. So if he’s stayed put there how does it take GZ 20 minutes to find him??? Don’t tell me he casually spend 15 minutes getting dressed up etc. and risk letting this one get away.

            On the other had, papa Z once said he knew for a fact GZ was going to Target because he broadcast texted the whole family to say as he usually does???? or some such unbelievable nonsense? no sign of any such texting. Well we already knew that..

            He rang the 0055 number late next day a couple of times.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            aussie says:

            On the other had, papa Z once said he knew for a fact GZ was going to Target because he broadcast texted the whole family to say as he usually does???? or some such unbelievable nonsense? no sign of any such texting. Well we already knew that..

            oh, thank you for that reminder – how could i possibly forget such a load of happy horseshit! yes, a broadcast text to all family members:

            “greetings family, it is me, george. off to target for my weekly shopping with 40 cents in my pocket and 12 bucks in the bank! over and out!”

          • fauxmccoy says:


            omg — just realized how absolutely awesome that interview will be when pappaZ tries to say ‘yes, that is my son screaming for his life’. uh yeah, dude, we already know you’d lie and say anything. see ya, wouldn’t wanna be ya!

        • Xena says:

          Wouldn’t the Lake Mary address be that of his parents?

          The Virginia number is probably Junior’s.

          • blushedbrown says:


            IIRC didn’t the parents have a retirement home in lake mary that GZ lived in, maybe Gracie stayed there also. Just a thought. I have no idea where his brother resided.

          • Tee says:

            Maybe not because he hadn’t spoken to his brother in 10 yrs before he murdered Trayvon. But who knows

          • Xena says:

            @blushedbrown. The retirement home is the one where his parents live. Mark and Sondra Osterman also reside in Lake Mary.

          • tonydphotog says:

            We already have Junior’s number, 703-867-3557. I do see that number at least once.

      • Puck says:

        That’s a Zimmerman number:

        So logically it’s Shellie, and GZ was using the phone that we see was in Shellie’s name.

        • Leelee says:

          Now hopefully they have GPS data on all the phones. GZ had said that Shellie was at her father’s place…

        • Leelee says:

          In one of his police statements Zimmerman says that he texted with his sister before he went to Target. Records show he was texting someone in his hometown of Virginia and the last text was at 6:04 which is an hour before he says he left for Target

    • bettykath says:

      So a lot of our speculation was….speculation. Not as nefarious as we thought.

    • tonydphotog says:

      Text messages are 3 hours behind, which make a lot of texting right before 7pm between fogen and Osterman?

      Am I understanding this correctly?

      • Puck says:

        If that number was Osterman’s, then yes. The contents of those texts, whoever it was, will be very interesting.

  40. kllypyn says:

    i witnessed a violent confrontation at a gas station where i went to to buy a snack. Two guys were arguing over a gas pump,i’m not sure why because there were 2 other pumps to chose from. one guy pushed the other guy down grabbed him by his hair and slammed his head into the asphalt twice he was knocked out.

    He was not in a mounted position by the way he was standing to the side but leaning over him with one leg between the legs of the guy on the ground. By the time the police and ambulance arrived he had come to and was sitting up. guess what i saw there was a round patch of blood on his head right where it had touched the ground.

    Now these guys are simular in size to George Zimmerman. the night he killed trayvon. Now remember Zimmerman was bald the night he killed trayvon,and trayvon was a lite weight. and zimmerman did not have a round blood patch on the back of his head.And he was not disabled in anyway. Remember he said trayvon had repeatedly slammed his head into the sidewalk for nearly a minute. What does that tell you?

  41. Wendie Dox says:

    I cried through most of her testimony… and when Taffee called her ..”precious” thatt night I just about lost my mind and attacked my tv screen…

    so incredibly hateful.

    • disappointed says:

      Wendie I know how you feel. I always say consider the source but with that drunk I can’t even give him that benefit. My husband just shakes his head. He has said many times he is hiding his white coned shape hood. I believe it.

  42. diary73 says:

    The records say they are pacific time. Not really sure how to read them.

    • blushedbrown says:


      IIRC from trial clip with Mr MacDonald from T-Mobile he said the bill was in Pacific time and depending on where you live the phones come equipped with auto time zone or the customer can set there own time zone.

      • dianetrotter says:

        So we have to add 3 hours to get Florida time. Forget what I said about Page 5

        • Sophia33 says:

          I don’t think so. I think that the time is as is. The was a call at 19:08, which I think was the original NEN call. And another one at 19:18, which was the same number. So I am wondering if he did indeed call the police at 19:18.

          It’s hard to read.

          • Malisha says:

            Could have been to say “That suspicious guy attacked me but it’s OK because some other police showed up,” or to try to find out how many cops they had notified. I think when he first called NEN he only WANTED one (1) to come: Timothy Smith.

          • Malisha says:

            Another thought is that his second call was to try to get through quickly to Billy Lee.

          • Sophia33 says:


            You might be right on both accounts.

        • Tzar says:

          3 hours to get the time of sms/text messages (designated D in the last column)

      • diary73 says:

        Oh. Thanks. How do you think Trayvon’s calls continued past his death? Or dud his not convert?

    • Puck says:

      Looking at Trayvon’s, it must be eastern time. Look what happens after Rachel’s 7:16:24 call: pushed to voicemail, and every call thereafter around 20 seconds after the incoming call (20 seconds of phone ringing).

    • colin black says:

      Im from the UK

      Not sure what your post means could you be slightly more specific?

  43. Woow! says:

    I would not put it past the defense team to be a part of or have knowledge of a lot of the insensitive racist pictures and posting out there. Any attorney that would see an audience from known racist should not be practicing law.

    Shame on O’Mara and West.

    I wonder how that black intern feel sitting at the defense table knowing she is trying to help set free a killer. I am sure she is exposed to the filth that goes on.

  44. colin black says:

    It takes a village, and we can be that village for her. 🙂
    I got the villige idiot post sewn up.

    That just reminds me there will be a situation vacant comeing up for village idiot when foggagge get carted of.
    ps fax sorry to here about the the infection.
    Hope it heals resolves soon.

    Sorry haven’t emailed you recently.
    Just as wellrealy considering your health.
    Must be connected as likewise this side majoe issues

    however on bright side when feeling better I found mother load of those disc thingie backmeups we disscssed practicly every one /4 from every laptop owns
    An all still in paper plastic

    pps g well soon.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      @colin — sounds good buddy. with that stack of goodies, we can get the job done. first your computer, then your partners and you should be good as new. best wishes for all of our health concerns.

  45. blushedbrown says:


    Zimmerman’s phone records

    Click to access June_27_Exhibits_and_Identification_List.pdf

    • Sophia33 says:

      So he did call the police again at 7:18 if I am looking at that correctly. But I wonder who he called in Cleveland at around 8:00? A lot of calls to a 216 exchange. That is Cleveland.

      • blushedbrown says:


        Will be back later to discuss. I want to get a magnifying glass, the print is so tiny!!

        • Thank you, Blush! I posted the link in the State vs Zimmerman thread on 3ChicsPolitico.

          • blushedbrown says:


            My pleasure!

            What I find interesting is that the majority of the calls are noted as text messages. IIRC O’mara did not want those in.

        • Puck says:


          Alexandria VA: 703 859-6010
          Winterpark FL: 407 759-9916
          Orlando FL: 407 731-0055
          Tampa FL: 813 334-8885
          Shellie: 407 731-0055
          Sanford PD (NEN, 911, general number with extensions): 407 688-5070

      • dianetrotter says:

        I can’t read the numbers. If you can read the number I will look it up in the reverse directory.

        • Puck says:

          I’m pretty sure everyone’s changed their numbers by now, unless reverse directories list leftover old numbers.

          Alexandria VA: 703 859-6010
          Winterpark FL: 407 759-9916
          Orlando FL: 407 731-0055
          Tampa FL: 813 334-8885
          Shellie: 407 731-0055
          Sanford PD (NEN, 911, general number with extensions): 407 688-5070

      • Rachael says:

        Sophia – remember, if it is a cellphone, it can have any exchange. I have a cell phone with a WA exchange but it is still the same number if I go to California, Texas or New York. Wonder if the air marshall ever had a cleveland exchange.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        @sopia — gz would have had his but parked interviewing with SPD at that time, so i’m thinking that is shellie’s activity.

        anyone got more insight?

    • Puck says:

      I’m trying to make sense of these.

    • Operacarla says:

      looks like fogencaca made calls at 7:08 and 7:18 to the same number. (I think I am reading this correctly.

      • blushedbrown says:

        That is Sandford Police Dept

        • disappointed says:

          He called NEN after shooting Trayvon instead of 911 EMERGENCY? Wow.

          • blushedbrown says:


            He never mentioned in any of his statements that he called them back. Manolo testified that he say that he was on the phone when he approached him.

            I wonder if that 911 call will be released if there is one.

          • Sophia33 says:

            Actually, from testimony, it all goes to the same line. So perhaps he did call 911. But where is the tape of that call? Has anyone heard it?

          • bettykath says:

            No need to call 911, there’s no longer an emergency, except for the person who was shot who just might like to have the emt’s and an ambulance

          • ay2z says:

            Ok, so fogen said he didn’t know Trayvon died at the scene, didn’t think he hit him, and all that. So, he calls NEN to report what? Obviously a victim of his gunshot wasn’t worthy of compassion to have an ’emergency’ call to help him live, or to help him in his last struggles, not anything like that.

            This qualifies on it’s own, as the actions of a DEPRAVED mind.

          • ay2z says:

            Fogen told investigators, that he did not know Trayvon died until an hour or so after arriving at the SPD that night.

      • Sophia33 says:

        That is what I saw. I also did reverse call back and came to the same conclusion as you.

    • Tzar says:

      So Zimmerman called NEN back @ 7:18
      when manolo takes a pic of him that’s who he is on the phone with

      does it not seem like he has an emergency?
      who does he know over at NEN?

      • blushedbrown says:

        Good questions.
        As many times as he has called that number they should have his information on instant pop up.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        If he did call NEN rather than 911 the second time, it may be one of the reasons the state went M2 on him rather than manslaughter.

      • aussie says:

        He could get Sean again and say “he nearly killed me, that @@hole @@@coon-punk, lucky to escape with my life….”

        But they didn’t have the tape (or said they didn’t) so he may not have gotten through.

        No emergency, no great hurry, he knew the kid was dead, or if not, a few minutes delay would make sure of it.

        Interesting is a call he received 6.48 which MAY have bee a tipoff. Possibly about someone heading that way. Then took him 20 minutes patrolling around to catch sight of him. He called that same number a few times the next night. It is listed as being in Orlando and Winterpark (halfway between Orlando and Lake Mary).

      • fauxmccoy says:

        tzar says

        does it not seem like he has an emergency?

        nope. no emergency in zimfantasyland. it’s all about george, all day, every day. he was probably calling in to let them know to cancel dispatch because ‘problem solved’.

        in other words — A FUCKING DEPRAVED MIND!

    • Tzar says:

      Oh God
      Poor DeeDee, She called Trayvon back 8 times that night, until about 11: 19: 43 pm, every call went to voicemail. So sad. 😦

  46. smokeegyrl says:

    As we are all writing certain things today, I do want to stay, i have enjoyed being in here. I have been able to share my thoughts without being put down. i have been corrected and not scolded for those correction or cursed out. It’s a difference between day and night being here and Facebook discussing this case. I won’t go on HLN’s page anymore to further be abused by the FogeNutters. They claim to be higly edumacated but are the most egotistical, haters, and racists of people I have ever seen in my whole entire life. Their worse then those I have come across in the OBama Presidential Race.

    I don’t believe all people of the governmental crayola box color labels “white” are racists. I feel they are true Human Beings with real feelings and emotions for other Human Beings and see no labels of color.

    • Sophia33 says:

      Well said.

      You may want to re-think that HLN page though. You can’t let the GZ fans drive you off. Band together with other Trayvon supporters. Our side must be heard in these blogs.

      Take a break, but don’t quit. I took a break from HP. Now talk about some nuts…

      • smokeegyrl says:

        I wished it were that easy Sophia, they reported you everytime you said something and you found your account being suspended for no reason. We had to start creating new Facebook pages and hide our profiles because our kids picture were being stolen and racial remarks were being put on them. Tyler Perry’s pictures and names were being used against us until we started reporting them to Facebook and to Tyler Perry.. It got so bad, were battling more than supporting Trayvon Martin. So, a lot of us decided to stop…and take our support to where it is needed… I took mine to the videos and twitter. and then found myself on this blog… Peace at last… O’Mara has asked these people to help in disrupting the Trayvon Martin support pages… but it has gotten so out of hands that I mean real race radical groups have infiltrated these pages where the FBI have been contacted because these racists have contacted TM supporters children schools… they have crossed the line.

        • Sophia33 says:

          Wow! I had absolutely no clue that all of this was going on! This helps me understand a lot of things now.

          Yeah, it is better to be safe.

          By the way, I listened to you video. We have a lot in common.

      • ladystclaire says:

        HP is about to be one of the worst sites out there because, they too give these people a platform in which to spew their hate as well as to disrespect this deceased kid and his family.

        This is so outrageous to see how these people are dissing a deceased child. after seeing those photos on GG, just how much more is this family suppose to take off of these people? it would be nice if the prosecution would bring this to the attention of the court because, the defense is involved in this up to their eyeballs.

  47. Jun says:

    The jury is not stupid

    They know by now that the defense lied to them in the opening statements and that all they are trying to do is twist witness testimony and try to forcefully change it

    They know West is a huge D-bag by opening with a knock knock joke and lying to the jury and using ridiculous reasoning like

    “Trayvon was shot in the chest, so Fogen could not have been on top”

    I doubt any jury believes that line of crap

    West throughout all he does to witnesses is try to force them to agree to Fogen’s story and then claim they are assuming or twist their testimony

    You can see it when West tries to do it to w18 Jean Sardyka

    When the witness testifies, the jury realizes that West lied to them about what w18 testified to as to what West claims

    West tried the same tactic with w8 by claiming he cant see the witness yet he had no problems earlier with other witnesses?

    West also kept interrupting Bernie’s direct and it was not even objections

    Then he tried the same tactic he used with W18 Jean Sardyka on w8, except more of a prick then before and way longer

    I’m sure the jury realizes that West is a bunch of boring nonsense and simply tune him out when he talks and I think the ladies on the jury feel proud that other woman stood their ground against West

    However, West did cement the ladies’ testimonies in what they said

    which is

    Fogen confronted Trayvon
    Trayvon was screaming
    Fogen followed on car and on foot (which is aggravated stalking)
    Trayvon was attacked in some manner, because she could hear Trayvon get bumped and his cell phone dropped and she could hear the grass

    Now what’s important is how this ties to Diana Smith the CSI tech

    That’s my opinion anyways

    • PiranhaMom says:

      @Jun –
      @Everyone –

      Please look at that disturbing photo of the dead youth on the grass.

      His hands are under him, clutching his chest, where he was shot. An involuntary, final reaction to being shot in the heart.

      His head is turned to one side.

      His feet are turned to the OPPOSITE side, parallel to each other.

      How could this be?

      Remember Zimmerman trying to come up with a “reasonable” story for Serino, of why Trayvon didn’t fall face forward on top of Zimmerman after being shot?

      All that stupid dialog that Zimmerman invented for Trayvon, saying Tray sat up and acknowledged now that the mighty Zimmerman was the winner in this fight?

      And Zimmerman mumbled he might have pushed him off, ending with a weak sigh, ” …. I don’t know … ” Claiming that Trayvon fell face down.

      Then Zimmerman said he spread Trayvon’s arms out, in some wimpy defensive move, because Zimmerman “didn’t know what he had in his hands;” that they might be a weapon?

      Remember all that, with Serino saying “flipped him over” and Zimmerman grabbing onto that because he thinks Serino really “gets” his story and is validating it, whereas Serino is really CLARIFYING Zimmerman’s preposterous claim so we can clearly see the lie that Zimmerman is making.

      Remember all that stuff, Jun?

      What really happened is this: Zimmerman, atop Trayvon, lifts his ass to draw his gun from the holster inside his back waistband, leans forward (remember the blood flow across Zimmerman’s cheek), carefully places the muzzle to avoid shooting his other hand, shoots Trayvon point blank, then, WITH BUTT STILL ELEVATED, frisks Tray for a weapon in front (thus the combo blood evidence on the undershirt), then, still with that butt in the air, he flips Tray over to search his back waistband and check Tray’s back to see if the hollow-point exited his victim.

      See all that 1-2-3 action, Jun?

      In the dark:

      One (position & fire).
      Two (check Tray’s front).
      Three (flip Tray and check his back).


      Neighbors witness this, IN THE DARK.

      His victim lies face down, as photographed and found.
      Arms under.

      Head facing left.

      Both feet facing right.

      Because the position that Zimmerman was in, kneeling and mounted ON, and then OVER Trayvon, ONLY LETS ZIMMERMAN GRASP TRAYVON’S THIN, LIMP DEAD BODY BY THE SHOULDER and ROLL HIM OVER.

      The arms stay in the position, on Tray’s chest, where they fell at the point of death – now held between earth and body.

      The head, following the neck and shoulders, lies in one position.

      The lower extremities stay in their original position.

      Rigor mortis had not yet set in.

      Tray’s slender build, his flex, his suppleness, all bear MUTE but STARK TESTIMONY to Zimmerman’s final desecration of young Trayvon Martin’s body.

      IT WAS ROLLED. That’s why the neighbors could not see what Zimmerman was doing.

      Just, unfortunately for Zimmerman’s story, in the dim light, he also failed to see that he did not roll Trayvon’s body over, ALL THE WAY.

      He rolled it only part way, into a position in which Trayvon could NOT have “fallen.”

      Zimmerman did not fire that gun while under Trayvon.


      Right, Jun?

  48. diary73 says:

    Off topic: there is an extremely important witness who can corroborate the school teacher’s testimony of GZ being on top JUST BEFORE the gunshot. This person’s testimony has remained consistent since his 911 conersation. Interviewing officers helped him to fine-tune his account. Many GZ supporters thought his recollection helped the defene, but it really did not. Let me explain.

    Austin, the boy who was walking his dog was OUTSIDE when he heard the screams. Before his dog got away, he saw ONE PERSON on the ground, kneeling or crouching. He described it as if someone had hurt his ankle. THAT PERON WAS IN RED! The mom says that LE led Austin far as the color was concerned, but IMO, I am glad that te leading occurred.

    Then, when his dog to ran away, he ran after the dog and heard the shot. The very next thing he heard is extremely damning to the defense: immediate silence. In his words, “The screaming stopped.”

    He said this on the 911 call, his statement to the police, and his YouTube video. His statements apply the KISS method of reporting.

    • Shari says:

      Yeah I remember his mother got a lawyer. He may not be a witness. I remember her saying her son was pretty shaken up because he had been witness to part of a murder. I have to say I would really have to think hard before letting my child testify. You want justice for another woman’s son but you need to protect your own.

      • Rachael says:

        The poor kid felt guilty because he wishes he could have done something. Poor guy – he did the exact right thing, went and got his sister and called 9-1-1. If he had gone to help, he’d probably gotten shot too.

        • HereslookingatYou says:

          Sad the ones that feel guilt shouldn’t
          and the one that should proud of what he did…
          just like some of those lying ass witnesses ..
          some of them are some sorry characters , like what caliber did you use..
          and let’s not make it our problem…
          and no I didn’t hear any words…
          I hope life gives them back what they really deserve

        • aussie says:

          And, traumatic or not, getting in the witness box will be a way to help Trayvon which he was unable to do at the time.

          Doing something HEALS. Shielding a child at the expense of not letting him do that something is not good, in the long run. But it has to be up to him, for what he’s seen at his age he’s old enough to decide for himself.

  49. Rachael says:

    Mr. West’s very own daughter is THE very reason the prosecution was concerned. While he (West) whined and complained about clients in fear – HIS OWN DAUGHTER is one who perpetuated it!!!


    MO’M goes on and on about not trying this in the media when that was ALL he did and now his co-counsel PROVES it?

    WTF is WRONG with these people?

    • Sophia33 says:

      Someone from the GZ’s team has been in the media everyday since court started. What are they talking about?

      • Rachael says:

        Exactly – and they were in the media before court started with all their lies an inuendo – pictures of pot and guns and bullshit. Then they go before the judge and cry about the prosecution. It is THEM!!!!

  50. fauxmccoy says:

    also — has it escaped anyone’s notice that this article has 80 something responses on the excellent scale, but is rating only 2 stars? i suspect we have some outside bigots messing with data.

  51. HereslookingatYou says:

    This case imo is going to come down to credibility and that mind tattooing scream ……the killers credibility is the only one that matters… he is a proven liar and when the pitiful exemplar he made gets played …..buh bye killer

    • My Forehead Tho says:

      There is a reason why people who actually followed the case don’t believe a word Fogen says. When Fogen’s lies are played in front of the jury and they find out that the only evidence that supports the theory that Trayvon approached , sucker punched , slammed his head into the ground, and forced him to scream for help is Fogen’s word, they will be forced to believe the contrary.

      I’m actually excited to hear about the jurors’ reactions to seeing Fogen on Hannity. Specifically this part:

      HANNITY: Is there anything you regret? Do you regret getting out of the car to follow Trayvon that night?

      ZIMMERMAN: No, sir.

      HANNITY: Is there anything you might do differently in retrospect now that the time has passed a little bit?

      ZIMMERMAN: No, sir.

      Keep in mind that had Zimmerman did what he was supposed to do, which is observe and report, Trayvon would still be alive.

      • colin black says:

        Even in retrospect .
        Realy think if you hadn’t lifted the phone gone to TARGET a CHILD would be alive.
        If you hadn’t kerb crawled him terrifying him to run .
        If you hadn’t exited your vechicle as soon as he ran between the back of the pitch blakck homes.

        Chased him down with a loaded gun of hollow point one in chamber ready to go.

        You don’t regret then having profiled him as an up to no good on drugs asshole khoon whom always get away.

        Where he was a legal geust the kind of person you as N W Captain should be protrecting .
        Knowing all tht you have absultey no regrets?

        Mmm well I haveint realy had time to think about it like that.

        What I mean is I had lots of time when I was locked up in Jail to think.

        But I didn’t want to think about no Blahck Kid .
        I mean I was being persecuted an locked up for being a decent Merican an defending my self look go speak to the guy at the MMA Club I practiced at three times a week three hours a pop
        That’s nine hours kickboxinf..for a bad back???

        Anyway ask him he will tell you I was soft an every thing an couldn’t even beat the punch bag.

        Man I had to leave the gym because that leather punch bag was bullying me an not getting what my deal was.

        An so when that CHILD attacked me an he could move an scream an every thing I got real confused an had a p t s dd type ocourance an I thought of the punchbag beating me used to pick up the boxing ring in the gym an smack me upside down my big fat head.

        So I just shot him one time

        The Blahk suspect that is not the punchbag
        Oh I mean the Blahck Kid because I didn’t even know where he was at an thought Id missed .
        The punchbag that is not the CHILD.

        So you see although I had time in jail I HAD so much more to think about than the night I nearly ended up wearing dieprs for ever.

        I had peter pan to think about wich so wasn’t a code for paypal

        It was a very very clever code for my defence team skeletor an M O M.

        An its super secret an nothing to do with hideing money an shifting it about like a griffter.

        Peterpan =my defence= the lost boys.

        Clever eh

        Its Post Moronic Ironiciy

  52. Sophia33 says:

    After this week, how much you wanna bet that Mr. West is gonna wish he had been preparing his case instead of eating ice cream with Cinderella’s step sisters?

    • fauxmccoy says:

      was just gonna say, that i got his name. i will compose a letter to him on our behalf and post a draft for people to see and/or comment. expect that within 24 hours, in spite of my own immediate medical needs (need to go to doc for bladder infection, yuck).

      after people have had a chance to comment, i will revise and email. his response, if any, i will share in the same manner and we can go from there.

      i am happy yo do this, but will gladly give anyone else the opportunity should they desire

      • blushedbrown says:


        I hope you feel better sweetie.
        look forward to the draft.
        Thanks for your help.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          i did not want to pass up the chance to say how glad i am to see you here. i miss you when you are away.

          yes, i’ll get better … but beyond that, as a group, we can give ms. jeantel the wings she needs to soar!

          • blushedbrown says:


            Thank you so much for that. I have returned to work and my hours are extremely long. I am so sorry for my long absence, I was overwhelmed with work, home, and some medical issues regarding my hubby. Things are getting back on track and I am very happy to be back.

            It takes a village, and we can be that village for her. 🙂

          • Two sides to a story says:

            I’m happy to see you back. I often wondered what had happened.

          • blushedbrown says:


      • Rachael says:

        Also send him this link so he can see how many here support her.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          will do, rachael!

          • PiranhaMom says:


            If there’s no cranberry juice in the pantry, drink glass after glass of plain water – maybe two glasses every 15 minutes, one after the other. These bugs always crop up on a weekend! Within an hour you will feel far less urethral pain.

            Keep drinking & drinking & drinking. Under the current circumstances, “peeing is your best friend!” These bugs can’t multiply if you flush them out!

          • fauxmccoy says:

            yup, i know. sadly, it’s a chronic issue for me. i can go from UTI to full on hospitalization for kidney infection within 36 hours. am just waiting for the brutal sun to set before heading to prompt care. will be doing better by tomorrow with decent meds on board.

          • aussie says:

            A few teaspoons of baking soda in that water help, too. It’s an ingredient of the sachets you can get over the counter (the other half is for nicer flavour) or Epsom Salts will help too.

      • Deborah Moore says:

        Cranberry juice until you can see someone.
        Take good care of yourself.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          yeah, been trying that for 2 days with no results. i have one of the worst immune systems in the world — cancer of my lymphnodes (hodgkins lymphoma) did some serious damage as did chemo. but, that was 18 years ago, i am cured and keep on kicking! thanks for the well wishes!

          • ladystclaire says:

            I don’t if you will read this but, there is a medication available OTC, for the relief of UTI symptoms. it won’t mask any infection in your specimen, but it will give you some relief of the pain and any other discomfort you may have.

            Feel better soon.

          • elle says:

            Pyridium. Sometimes sold as AZO, but Walgreens has a generic form. If I remember correctly, it comes in 90 mg pills OTC, and the box says to take one at a time, but you can safely take two at a time for a couple of days. But, you probably already know all this Faux. I hope you feel better tomorrow.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            oh yeah, that’s the good stuff. husband is picking it up at walgreens right now along with the cipro. should be doing much better within a day or two.

      • Mary Davis says:

        @ fauxmccoy, You are so kind to do this when you are not feeling well. I would volunteer, but I’m just not savvy in this type of thing. Thank you so much, and know you are so appreciated. Would be nice if it was something that we all could sign. Hope your condition improves very soon.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          i will work on getting as many signatures on this as possible, while still protecting our privacy. since i will be posting the draft letter online here, as i did with my juror chart, it can be accessed by anyone who has the link – this will get a bit tricky, but we’ll work it out.

      • bettykath says:

        Now, instead of going to facebook, which has take the pages down, you go to global grind to see them. Global grind needs to take them down as well.

        • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

          That’s awful. Dehumanizing Trayvon’s death! Whoever did this needs to be outed to the public and their face blasted across TV screens. Smh! They’re trying to start a race war. Omg!

          • You all have thoughtful comments says:

            Their actions are definitely those of provocation!!!!

          • ladystclaire says:

            This IMO needs to go to the media in order for these people to be seen for what they are. even though we don’t know who is behind this, it still needs to be outed in the main stream media. this is shameful and, who ever is behind this shit, may they experience first hand, the very same thing that, Trayvon’s family is going through.

            These people are not giving the marathon bombers this kind of mistreatment and, they killed three white people. yet they do this to Trayvon and, somebody with the defense leaked that photo because, when it was shown during the trial, it wasn’t on screen long enough for someone to get a copy of it that way.

          • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

            You know Ladystclaire, you might be right. Someone did release that picture because it wasn’t on the screen long enough. That’s beyond sick. It gave me the chills.

      • Tzar says:

        Tell Deedee we love her!!!!!

      • Malisha says:

        Perhaps hold back until after trial so there’s no brou-ha-ha about her testifying for $. ???

    • dianetrotter says:

      I wonder if he is related to Ben Vereen.

  53. ladystclaire says:

    Good afternoon folks, if any of you guys have a facebook page, facebook is being boycotted effectively at midnight on July 16, 2013. this is being done because of how facebook has allowed a racist group to really cross the line concerning this kid’s death.

    There are very explicit photos that were pulled from that site and, they can be seen at the Global Grind. facebook has been made aware of this yet, they refused to take action and block these IP addresses, which allow them to make another page after being deleted.

    This is heartbreaking and, it’s most definitely uncalled for. folks, we are living among some ugly sick racist white people in this country. this makes me sick to my stomach as well as to the core. it really makes me wonder, why does GOD continue to give breath to the bodies of people like these.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Oh, God. I just saw that page of photos after searching for that Global Grind page by using the search words “global grind explicit photos”

      Oh God Oh God Oh God Oh God…………

      • ladystclaire says:

        This is beyond showing us and the rest of the world, just how ignorant they are. for facebook to allow this to continue, speaks volumes about facebook. there is no reason what so ever, why these people have to be acting in such a harsh unnecessary disrespectful way.

        • You all have thoughtful comments says:

          We need to alert all of our kids in college and beyond so this boycott can made known.

          Our kids in their 20’s and 30’s are huge users of Facebook.

    • HereslookingatYou says:

      Nothing good will happen in life to the filth that did that …..
      absolutely shameful

    • Woow! says:

      How did the racists get the pictures? The defense has been leaking info from day 1 and something needs to be done about it.

    • Rachael says:

      Oh NO!!! I thought it was just the pictures of the girls but I did what YAHTC did and I wish I hadn’t. That is the most awful thing ever. I hope they can find those people and do something. That is omg so wrong, so wrong. How can someone do that and feel good about themselves? people who do that are not people. they are not human. OMG.

    • MedicineBear says:

      It’s a good thing I’m not God — I’d Etch-a-Sketch these fucking soulless lizard people!

      As it is, I’m hoping for the asteroid. The human race is a failed experiment — better we all go to save the planet from the cancerous Pod Creatures.

      Just when you think they can’t get any more vile . . .

      My soul aches. :’ (

    • Sophia33 says:

      OMG! I won’t be able to sleep tonight after that.

      Why are we waiting until July 16 to boycott FB. It should happen now?

      It is petition time! I can’t believe this! I really can’t.

      • MollyK says:

        I am not on facebook, so I can’t boycott it. Having seen all of your reactions, I am not going to look at the pictures. Can someone say, in general terms, what they are? Who are “the girls”? Or are they photos of Trayvon – I hope not???!!!

        • Sophia33 says:

          No, we can’t say in general terms what they are. That is how despicable they are. I am still shaking right now. Please do yourself a favor and trust us. Don’t look. I’m literally shaking.

          • MollyK says:

            I won’t, definitely. And I’m so sorry that some of you have seen them.

            I hope to God that no one who knew Trayvon has seen them.

  54. I think the prosecution is proving their case with the witnesess and the time line plus knocking out the testimony of the defense witnesess by calling witnesess that the defense would call to show their bias, that would leave the defense to have to call fogen to the stand, I think the prosecution is cutting the defenses plan in half, forcing them to do things they don’t want to

  55. silk says:

    I feel that the prosecutor could win! Its how they present the evidence. And how to keep omara nd west silent. The tate has More then enough to win. U can’t have a conservative approach when defending trayvon martin , in florida!!! So omara will continue with the what if, because bernie letting him. Forgive me but omara and west are ignorant. This case is not really hard. I hurt deep in side for trayvon. But I don’t know.

    • colin black says:

      Nobody is defending Trayvon no one was there to defend him an foggaggge stole his life and voice unfourtunately TRAYVON IS BEYOND DEFENDING.

      I feel your pain pardner

      The scumbad defendant is the one with the defence trying to excuse the inexcusable.

      The casual murder of a CHILD for the sake of conveinance.
      He thought he could should an would get away with murder.

      An he very nearly escaped ch.arges .
      But now he has to pay don’t worry in this out come neither he or his defence has a say.

      Thanks for posting

  56. Sophia33 says:


    I haven’t said anything remotely close to claiming that Rachel lied on the stand. In fact, I have said that her common sense nature has made her about more genuine.

    I am hoping that your comment is just in the wrong spot. That has been happening a lot lately. But I wanted to be clear. I would never call Rachel a liar, because I think she told the truth.

    • Mary Davis says:

      I have no idea what you are talking about. My response was to Rachael and have nothing to do with you. This is my first post today. I was telling Rachael about a post I posted yesterday. Maybe my comment did post in the wrong spot, as I have not read all the posts today. There are so many lately that I find myself just browsing. I have not heard you call Rachel a liar.

      • Sophia33 says:

        Yeah, it probably posted in the wrong spot. It happened to me earlier.

        Your post went under a comment I had about TalkLeft. I was expressing my shock that they are supporting the defense. And then your comment is posted under that.

        • Mary Davis says:

          @ Sophia33. Wow, now I am embarrassed. You were talking to aussie. Guess I read too quickly. I am sorry. I don’t know why, but our posts seem to be popping up all over the place. I’ll just read more carefully.

          • Sophia33 says:

            Don’t be embarrassed you have nothing to be embarrassed for 🙂

            The professor mentioned earlier today, I think in the other post, that he upgraded something to prevent this from happening. Perhaps we have so many posting that little can be done.

            Donation coming this week, Professor. 🙂

        • aussie says:

          I agree with you, Sophia. I meant how stupid they were to count those things as huge lies that will impeach her. I can see you are totally with Rachel. As I think all of us here are.

          • Sophia33 says:

            Cool. I just wanted to make sure there was no misunderstanding. I do not think they really impeached her with those things. Technically? Perhaps. And that is iffy. Common sense wise? Hecky no!

            1. She lied about her age. Why? Because she was reluctant to get involved in all of this.

            2. She lied about her name. Why? Because she was reluctant to get involved in all of this.

            The fact that Rachel didn’t want to get involved as was so clearly shown on the stand, adds credibility to her. I can still hear her tell Mr. Don that she was going home on the first day. And then when they told her that she had to come back tomorrow she said, “WHAT?!”

            That adds credibility to her if you ask me.

        • Gwen says:

          Sorry about that Sophia. I never comment, I just listen and learn. I finally comment and it goes in the wrong place. Oh well, my apologies again. I wanted to give you props for understanding and for the ability to put on paper how many of us who are silently watching this trial, are feeling this first week.

  57. Mary Davis says:

    I know what you mean Rachael. I have seen some pretty strange posts recently, even race bating. Someone took one of my posts out of context but I just ignored it. Not worth my time.

  58. Dashamimi says:

    I hope this question is not up thread but Professor could you let us know whether this post is the highest count (votes) you have had on your blog posts so far? I would imagine you have lurkers.

    Everything is moving so quickly..I am still days behind on reading the blogs. They are so informative. I will send a donation today and greatly appreciate you for maintaining this blog.

  59. Tzar says:

    Is the state letting Tim Smith lie on the stand?
    Zimmerman was on the phone at 7:19:07 when his bloody back of the head shot was taken
    He was not in handcuffs
    Zimmerman’s phone records show him connecting to the NEN line at 7:20

    what gives?

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      I have no idea, they’re doing things much differently than what the evidence shows, they’re not highlighting gz’s many stories and they’re not showing how they conflict with the evidence either.

      I don’t expect it to help gz much at all anyway, since he has no blunt force injuries anywhere and Trayvon has no dna on his hands, and they’ve told the jurors his story about him being smothered.

      I can only guess that they’re trying their best to keep from putting the SPD on trial.

  60. Mary Davis says:

    Wow Professor, Since the trial started we have so many new posters, I thought I was on the wrong blog. Didn’t realize this blog was so popular. It’s a good thing.

    • Rachael says:

      I have the feeling that many of them were here for a while, some only occasionally posting, many just following, but it is good to see them!~!~

    • dianetrotter says:

      I hope they will make a small contribution (or large if they can afford it) to all of the hard work Professor and Crane are putting in here. I made my donation last night.

  61. groans says:

    Don West also has proven that he raised his children to be sadistic, racist bigots, too.

    I guarantee not one of the nine of us raised by my parents would have said what Molly (or whichever West daughter) did. And that includes the boasting and gloating, as well as her dog-whistle “stupidity” remark – which broadcasted only her own ignorance for all the world to see.

    • MedicineBear says:

      Are you sure she doesn’t have mental deficiencies or a speech impediment? Or is it that they are illiterate? Typing “We Be At Stupid I Ty” is an appallingly uneducated way of saying “We Be Stupid” . . . and who is “Ty”?

      And could they try to put a little color into their hair and skin? I can’t believe they walk around in public looking like that! But then, I’ve noticed that those pasty white stick people are lazy, ignorant parasites sucking the blood of a once-healthy social structure and collecting their unearned privileges as if entitled by virtue of birth.

  62. Shari says:


  63. fauxmccoy says:

    ok, in the middle of one serious heatwave here in northern CA – i know some of you have it worse, but once it rises above 110 deg, who is really counting?

    for me, when this happens, it is my natural tendency to sleep during the day so i can enjoy the night time coolness of 85 deg or so. last night, i did just that – stayed up and outside all night and reviewed rachel jeantel’s testimony in it’s entirety.

    professor? may we add “SEXIST PIG!” to your descriptors?

    west routinely does not ask judge nelson if he may approach the witness (bad form), then stands behind her shoulder, encroaching upon her in a way that reminds me of every sexist pig i ever worked with who did the same thing while i was performing secretarial work. one just wanted to look down my blouse, another liked to press his nads against my thigh. i was a very young and i will go so far as to say good looking, there was no awareness of sexual harassment at the time and nowhere to go to report such things. i needed my job and suffered such treatment until i could find something better. i did get good at realizing when one of these asshats was approaching my desk and made a point to stand up, move around to the opposite side of the desk and learned to cope with it that way.

    needless to say, i know what is going on with west’s body language — it is about power and in his pathetic mind, he thinks he has some. i cannot believe that any woman on that jury, regardless of age or race, does not know exactly what the score is in the exchange of west and jeantel.

    • groans says:


      • fauxmccoy says:

        the heat or sexual harassment?

        both, i expect, one certainly more heinous than the other.

        • Deborah Moore says:

          It seems the heat has broken a bit just in the last hour. The last three days have been miserable in SoCal.

          • Rachael says:

            My daughter-in-law and my 2 granddaughters left today to visit her family in Phoenix. They stopped off here on the way to the airport (6 a.m.) with their sweatshirts on and I laughed at them so hard.

          • Deborah Moore says:

            Now, mom….:)

        • groans says:

          The harassment. We’ve got heat here, too, you know. But y’all have “dry” heat, so it’s no big deal. At least that’s the story we’ve always been told! As long as you’ve got your Chapstick, you’ll be fine.

          ( Just teasin’! 😉 )

    • Deborah Moore says:

      I agree 110%. Been there dealt with that.
      I’m not sure that all women will pick up on that, tho, if that haven’t experienced it first hand. These big, powerful A$$hats.

    • Rachael says:

      Yep faux – you pinpointed it. He is just awful in all respects. Despicable human being, if one can call him human.

  64. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    I agree with you, Professor, when you write that Don West Don West “proved that he is a sadistic racist bigot”.

    I believe that Molly West’s tweet will forever be as vividly remembered as the photo of Hazel Bryan screaming with hate at Elizabeth Eckford in September 1957 as she attempted to make her way to Little Rock Central High School :

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      And, Don West’s treatment of Rachael was had the same attitude as Hazel Bryan’s treatment of Elizabeth Eckford.

    • Rachael says:

      You are right and this picture made me cry. I’ve been crying all week. Why would I be surprised that GZ would be represented by such scum? I’d be surprised if he hadn’t been. But it still makes me cry. I would so much like to think things changed since that picture you posted when I was only a year old, but Molly and her dad – and GZ, MO’M and the outhouse have shown me it hasn’t changed much at all. The clothes and hairstyles are different, the cars are different, we can now hide behind computers, but it isn’t all that different.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Sadly, you are right Rachael… isn’t all that different.

        It grieves me.

        Can you imagine what John Lewis is feeling this week with the Supreme Court gutting the core of the 1965 Voting Rights Act?

    • Michael Stewart says:

      Roger that YAHTC.

      The Donald said: “Sometimes we’re deeply disappointed by the things our children do.”

      I would remind Mr. West that Trayvon Martin was a “child”. At 23 years of age, his daughter Molly is an adult.

      And as far as his treatment of Rachel goes, it was the 21st century equivalent of tying her to a post in the middle of the plantation and publicly beating the “truth” out of her. A verbal flogging.

      Thanks for calling it out Professor.

    • parrot says:

      YAHTC, your post sent me looking for more on what became of Hazel. (I’ve always wondered about people like her, photographed in a crowd, frozen in time, forever remembered at their worst).

      I wondered if they ever looked back at themselves and how they felt about it now so many years later and if they redeemed themselves in some way.

      I found this article based David Margolick’s new book, Elizabeth and Hazel: Two Women of Little Rock.

      The article paints a complex picture.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Yes, they temporarily reconciled but it did not last, and they have not seen each other for 10 years.

        from the article:

        A student of, and stickler for, history, Elizabeth looked for—and, she thought, spotted—holes in Hazel’s story. How, for instance, could Hazel have undertaken something so cruel so casually, then remembered so little about it afterward? And why, after all these years, did she absolve her parents from any blame?
        But resentment came as well from whites, particularly whites who’d attended Central, particularly those from better families, who’d thought that, even by always looking the other way, they’d done absolutely nothing wrong during those dark days and, truth be told, considered Hazel and her ilk “white trash.” Forty years earlier she’d given them all a black eye; now, she was back, more conspicuous, and embarrassing, than ever. At a reunion she foolishly, or naively, attended, she felt their cold shoulder, and could hear their snickers. None of them had ever apologized for anything they’d done or not done, and, as far as Hazel could tell, they’d been none the worse for their silence.

      • Rachael says:

        OMG, I don’t know what to say.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:


        Daisy Bates book (“The Long Shadow of Little Rock, A Memoir”) besides recounting the events, is also quite an eye opener as to the aftermath effects on all of those who directly supported the Little Rock Nine.

      • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

        I was given a free copy of that book by the publisher.

    • dianetrotter says:

      Hazel Bryan and Elizabeth Eckford and others were on Oprah. Hazel apologized to Elizaabeth and talked about how ashamed she is. She commented on how the encounter was immortalized.

  65. jm says:

    West sickens me in so many ways. His mind, his presentation, his arrogance and his physical appearance. He (and his family) should be ashamed. I wonder if he or anyone in the West family is ashamed of his treatment of Rachael on the stand, who was a captive audience, for 6 PLUS hours?

    West is physically and mentally disgusting.

    • Dashamimi says:

      Yea…I totally agree. JN had to tell him to lower his voice at one point during the cross. MOM is not to far behind either. Did you all notice how he snatched his Mac from Ms. Selene when he asked her to read something and walked away like as if she disgusted him.

  66. Unabogie says:

    I’ve been debating this on another forum, and one thing the state pointed out in the opening statement was the missing minutes after Zimmerman hung up. Here’s what I came up with:

    Click to access serino31.pdf

    Take a look at this exchange:

    Serino: Where you at now?
    Zimmerman:On Retreat View Circle, I think.
    (plays tape 2:47 to 3:06)
    Serino: What are you doing right now?
    Zimmerman: Walking back to my car.
    Ok, so let’s match that up with the times that we know.

    The phone call ends with NEN at 7:13:41.

    The length of the tape is 4:03.

    Serino:OK, you’re walking back to your car?
    Zimmerman: Yes, sir,
    (plays tape 2:48 to 4:03 )
    Zimmerman: I’m thumping the damn flashlight as I was walking through.
    (call ends)
    Singleton:How long is that?
    Serino: It’s 84 seconds. From the point where you were walking back to your car from Retreat
    View to Twin Tree basically.
    This means that if we subtract 84 seconds from 7:13:41, Zimmerman claimed he was already walking back to his truck at exactly 7:12:17.

    The call with Rachel Jeantel doesn’t end until 7:16:00 at the earliest and the first 911 call happens at 7:16:11.


    Basically Zimmerman has almost four minutes of unaccounted for time in which he only had to travel 30 feet. I think this will be a huge part of the closing argument.

  67. newmediacounsel says:


    What do you think of the order of the witness and evidence presented?

    Do they present the strongest first or is there no order to the evidence in that fashion?

    • Deborah Moore says:

      It seems they are presenting evidence in the same time-line of events, just as Mr. Guy laid it out in the Prosecution’s opening.
      Of course, I’m not Fred, but…they also seem to be calling eye or ear witnesses, laying out sight and sound, then they call an evidence witness, to show what the state has to show.
      Just the facts, m’am.

    • They are proceeding chronologically through the civilian witnesses and first responders.

      • Deborah Moore says:

        I bow to your concise and accurate answer.
        Sir. (Hi honey and hi to the other honey.)

      • newmediacounsel says:

        That makes sense. My background isn’t criminal law so I find all the chatter online and with legal pundits confusing about where the case is right now. I think we are still in the same place as we were the first day with a greater likelihood of conviction than acquittal, but there are others who each time one of the eye witnesses testifies proclaim the trail over.

      • Tzar says:

        one of my comments is stuck in Moderation

      • Tee says:

        Professor do you think that the state should let the jury hear Trayon’s voice in court because West made a big deal out of his voice being deep. We hear have heard his voice & know that it is very high pitch would this be wise?

    • fauxmccoy says:

      am not the professor, but it has been clearly stated within this blog that the prosecution is laying out their story in chronological order, which i think will paint the best picture for the jury.

  68. 2dogsonly says:

    What I saw with West’s cross of RG was down the line pure role reversal.

    West became the thug displaying a lower grasp of critical maneuvering skills reduced to bullying a witness .

    Rachael became the intelligent, strong, smart , courageous fighting for justice one.

    As Rachael gained confidence, West lost his. As she began displaying mature behavior, he became the angry ( pencil throwing),petulant, insufferable, door slamming, name calling teen.

    We witnessed her morph into an adult which reduced West to his core adolescent behavior.

    Remarkable a seasoned lawyer could be so undone by a inner city mostly unsophisticated teen.

    Rachael, I believe needs no apologies from anyone.She is well on her way to conquering any goals she sets.

    Karma came knocking on West’s door which just added to her victory.

    The world is yours, young woman. Take a bow.

    • Trained Observer says:

      2dogs, appreciated your superb analysis …

    • Tzar says:

      Very well said

    • groans says:

      Don’t forget that Rachel had a HUGE advantage over West, throughout:

      The truth, and nothing but the truth.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Excellent post, 2dogsonly!

      West discovered that Rachael could “not be moved”.

      Ain’t nobody gonna turn her around! She kept on a-walkin and a-talking with THE TRUTH.

    • Rachael says:

      perfect analogy

    • colin black says:

      ditto scalator projected his raceist tude onto Rachel an could not comphrehend she was tottaly incaple of guile.

      Honest trut was her shield an West didn’t get it he loathes thease people therefore thease people loathe an rightly fear him.

      Rachel neither hated or feared this cretin nor his cretonis client.

      Rachel an the Schoolteaching marathon running non hysrerical but compassionate wittnes to the truth.

      The truth an fogggagge are not strangers

      The truth is an ALEIN CONCEPT to this scumbag defendant.


      The truth sends foggagge to a life of incarseration.

      Riddle me this given that scenario

      Whom has the most insentive to LIE?

    • PiranhaMom says:


      You are wonderful!

      And you are right.

  69. colin black says:

    From another case, Mark Fuhrmann. Why celebrate them as ‘famous’, there’s got to be another term besides the celebratory celeb, or tv stars’ who are in this category. This should not be a claim to fame for anyone. ‘infamous’ might be better to make a distinction.

    The English tounge is unique its a gift for re naming cretins like thease.
    M Fuhrnam D West .

    Celebritys???NO….Credibilty NILL.

    Street CRED …Zero…


    Southpark done that episode in

    The N Word Stans dad become an unwilling member?Supppose foggaggge has joined there ranks.

  70. dianetrotter says:

    Rachel was in 2nd grade with Trayvon which means she would have been 9 rather than 7. I wonder if she started school late or was sorting out language for a couple of years.

    • Dashamimi says:

      No offense……It doesn’t matter.

      • dianetrotter says:

        I’m not offended. There was discussion about her being embarrassed to be older than the other kids. I’m saying it can’t be that she’s failing high school subjects. Many families move from place to place over a short period of time. One student told me they had moved 5 times over the school year and she had been in 5 different schools.

    • Yorazigo says:

      Thinking about all the defense commotion about Crump lying when he talked about her being a minor — she could have been 17 in February/March 2012 when the murder happened and she was interviewed. Subsequently she could have turned 18 in 2012, and then turned 19 earlier this year.

      • PiranhaMom says:


        I believe “DeeDee” stated on the stand that her birthday was February1, so she was a year older than Trayvon at the time of his killing and would be 19 now, which she is.

        FYI, some children have to repeat a year because they are just not “socially ready” to advance to the next grade.

        I had to repeat kindergarten. I only recall that I was self-taught at using scissors and they laughed at my hand position (although I cut neatly). I then skipped a year in grade school, the last year of high school (thus I’m not a high school graduate) and the first year of college by simply writing the exams. I am a UCLA Chancellor’s Associate. I still cut my paper funny – but precisely.

        “Diamond” is wise beyond her years. If she can regain some calm after the loss of her best friend, understand she has no reason for guilt, and comes to understand that SHE bested West, despite his vulgar, vile and shabby treatment of her, she will be a MIGHTY FORCE in the years to come!

        • Yorazigo says:

          Sorry, I didn’t see all her testimony and must have missed her stating that her birthdate was/is February 1. I was only just now reviewing some of the trash the defense team threw out there and her age came to mind. I certainly wasn’t questioning her grade level at school.

          I agree, she is wise beyond her years, truthful, and I’m so glad she didn’t cower to West’s attempts to discredit her. A tower of strength she was, and I hope she can carry that strength into her future!

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @pmom — wow, we have eerily similar timelines in the education world.

  71. Shari says:

    I had no idea she was the star witness. She was simply an ear witness who was miles away from where Trayvon was murdered. The eye witnesses who were there all have bits and pieces and she has another piece. What is more important to me is the actual phone records, scream for help-gunshot, location of his body (nowhere NEAR Fogen’s truck-almost to his home), and the fact that the killer has no life threatening injuries. I am very troubled by this idea that if he has a reasonable fear for his life he may kill. What is a reasonable fear? He said before that he FELT Trayvon saw his gun, robbie the racist even repeats this. This to me is bullcrap and nothing but the self serving lies of someone who has EVERY motive to lie. Especially when the DA THAT NIGHT was looking for a reason to give him immunity under stand your ground. I think this is why the state keeps asking about how dark it was that night, because it was so dark Fogen can’t now say that Trayvon saw his weapon which was in a holster.

    The phone records and eye/ear witnesses all disprove Fogen’s claims. The murder did not happen the way he said it. It’s looking to be what makes sense. He was trying to detain Trayvon, they rolled on the grass, Fogen realized people could hear the commotion so he shot Trayvon because dead kids tell no tales of creepy stalkers. He is a wanna be cop so he knows all about justifiable homicide so he makes up a story about Trayvon maybe feeling or sensing his gun.

    There is NO evidence his life was in danger. People who believe him simply WANT to believe his story just like Fogen WANTED to kill Trayvon.

    He is so creepy and absolutely a wanna be cop. Shaved head, german shepherd, gun in holster, took MMA classes, taking criminal justice courses, making friends with cops (Osterman), worked with parking enforcement for RTL, and he appointed HIMSELF the authority even accusing other black boys of crimes and following people.

    • newmediacounsel says:

      The star witness claim seems to come from the press as far as i can tell unless Im missing something which I probably am.

      • elcymoo says:

        I think she was the ‘star witness’ primarily because it was Trayvon’s cell phone call that helped establish the crucial timeline. Her testimony about that conversation was secondary, IMO at least, but important parts of it are supported by the NEN tape and GZ’s own contradictory statements.

        • newmediacounsel says:

          I will take your word for it because to me she really wasn’t any more significant than anything else reported about the case this week. I tend to see this kind of circumstantial evidence case a puzzle that must be fit together for consistency without any major smoking guns. But again I could be wrong here as to how the prosecution and others see it

          • Rachael says:

            She was the star in that she withstood all the crap she did in the name of justice for her friend.

        • aussie says:

          She established the car to pedestrian chase before the foot pursuit started, which would be hard to prove otherwise. There is analysis of vehicle lights from the clubhouse videos, but that would be very hard for a jury to follow. “He told me…..” is a lot easier way to establish this.

          And she became a real star through her graceful survival of West’s despicable behaviour.

          • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

            “And she became a real star through her graceful survival of West’s despicable behaviour.”

            aussie, I cosign with you.

          • vickie s. votaw says:

            Speaking of the clubhouse videos, do you think in the mail kiosk one, could it be enhanced to reveal CAC’s image? (Just hoping for more evidence, 🙂 )

      • fauxmccoy says:


        you are not missing anything. neither the prosecution nor the members of this blog have ever considered ms. jeantel to be a ‘star witness’ rather an integral piece of the puzzle. this ‘star witness’ meme is media hype and a bigot’s playtoy. they do not have the murder victim to kick around in person, so they take the next ‘logical’ step in their own deluded minds.

        • PiranhaMom says:


          There is a STAR witness in this case, a STAR with over an hour of STAR performances on OFFICIAL SANFORD POLICE DEPARTMENT video and voice recordings.

          “Ladies and gentleman of the jury, I present the STAR performance of the defendant, George Michael Zimmerman, in his many sworn versions of his story, told to law enforcement under penalty of perjury, for your REASONABLE CONSIDERATION if a REASONABLE PERSON would kill another in REASONABLE FEAR for his own life. considering …

          “The defendant had six months’ intensive training in Mixed Martial Arts, the defendant outweighed the unarmed juvenile victim by 49 lbs, the defendant carried a semi-automatic pistol on his hip, fully-loaded with hollow-point bullets with one already in the chamber, and the defendant, EVEN IF HE BELIEVED THE VICTIM HAD COMMITTED A CRIME, could REASONABLY have said, “I have a loaded gun. I called the cops and they’re on their way. You are under Citizen’s Arrest.”

          Even if Zimmerman wasn’t the dolt that we think he is, there was no REASONABLE FEAR for his life from this unarmed juvenile. He never said “the kid” was going for “his own gun.” He told police he did not fear Trayvon.

          He killed Trayvon to get credit for killing him..

          As John Guy stated in his opening statement, “because he WANTED to.”

          • Shari says:

            That is the most heart breaking thing about this whole murder. He WANTED to kill Trayvon. I think he was some pseudo skinhead. Especially with Taffee and Osterman grooming him. I say pseudo because I’m not sure he’s white enough for them.

          • fauxmccoy says:


        • Shari says:

          Okay when you mentioned bigots you refreshed my memory. Rachel is what brought me to this website. I remember the headlines saying “DeDe” lied. I clicked a link that lead me here where the Prof. cleared things up.

          The racists at the conservative website HAVE been out to get her for a long time. They have been looking for her, they even found two wrong DeDe’s. They were out to get her so strongly because THEY thought she was the star witness.

          Anyway the “lies” were all about her personal life which I really am not concerned with. How old she is, why she didn’t want to attend a wake, the name she used in a letter to Sybrina, none of that has anything to do with what she was an ear witness to. None of that changes the phone records which place Trayvon on the phone and NOT hiding in the bushes to sucker punch a grown man.

    • Dave says:

      The defense promoted theidea that DeeDee was the state’s key witness, probably because they thought she could be easily discredited. The lazy-azz media bought it like they bought most of their claims. The state never called hertheir key witness–just one of many who would prove their case.

      • groans says:


        I’m vaguely recalling that during some hearing, BDLR even poo-poo’d the notion that there was any “star” witness — and said something like, “ALL our witnesses are important.”

      • Shari says:

        I am glad that the jury is sequestered. When this trial is over I really want to know how they took in all this info. I don’t want to mention Casey Anthony AGAIN but most trial watchers were pretty amazed at the verdict. In that case the jury seemed to misunderstand REASONABLE doubt and stretched it to ANY SCINTILLA OF A DOUBT I CAN FIND IF I DIG HARD ENOUGH. I remember one juror said that she believed that Casey killed her child and left her in the side of the road like trash.

        Rachel is not the star witness. The most important thing about her testimony was that her phone records were entered into evidence. They help to form a timeline. It’s looking like the state is not too interested in it at this point. They do have a posterboard that they have been working on. Looks like they will be using it in closing statements. They bring it out with each witness and mark something on it.

      • SearchingMind says:

        There are tow star witnesses in this case: (a) GZ himself and (b) science.

        Dee Dee is a key part of the chain of evidence. Her testimony clearly establishes that GZ was the aggressor – i.e. GZ (a) watched, observed and profiled Trayvon while Trayvon was in the “mail area”, (b) Trayvon knew he was being watched and was fearful. Both Trayvon and Dee Dee thought GZ might be a rapist; (c) Trayvon started walking away to “loose” GZ; (d) GZ followed Trayvon in his car; (e) Dee Dee advised Trayvon to run. Trayvon ran; (f) Trayvon “lost” GZ; (g) suddenly GZ re-emerged, this time on foot, approached Trayvon and (h) attacked Trayvon (“the bump”). At this very moment, the aggressor was borne and the aggressor may not claim self-defense (baring few exceptions).

        Without this evidence, prosecutors will rely entirely on forensics/ballistics to refute GZ’s claim that Trayvon attacked him. If, without Dee Dee’s testimony, forensics/ballistics can’t get the job done, that would point to reasonable doubt.

        This explains the all-out warfare on Dee Dee by the defense – with West ultimately proving that he (West) is really a mediocre, crude and brute.

    • Malisha says:

      If Fogen gets on the stand, HE will be the prosecution’s star witness. GUARANTEED. 👿

  72. Operacarla says:

    I was on yesterdays thread with GrannyStandingforTruth and bettykath. I went looking for Keltek photos. The sight catches my eye. It seems that it could have made the two small pricks on CACa’s nose.

    A photo of a Keltek9:

    CACa’s nose:

    • bettykath says:

      Thank you, operacarla. That’s the photo I couldn’t find. It adds to the theory that fogen’s bloody face is due to firearm recoil that many of us have considered!

      • groans says:

        No black eyes before his PA visit, and no black eyes later that day during his non-re-enactment. Was the PA lying in her office visit notes, or what’s the deal on that?

        Unless … Maybe CAC TOLD her he had black eyes?

        That’s the only explanation I can come up with. Especially since we all witnessed how easily the PA is lured by the power of suggestion.

        • bettykath says:

          SZ is a cosmetologist and presumably knows about makeup. 🙂

        • Cercando Luce says:

          She’s like those 19th century ladies who get hypnotized looking into Latino eyes (just like the Judy Garland character in an movie I watched with my dad). Or dangling gold watches…

        • Malisha says:

          A friend of mine is an actor.
          Her make-up people can make her look a lot worse than Fogen looked in those pictures. The PA wouldn’t have rubbed a cotton ball on Fogen’s face. Shellie knows how to apply make-up. Even better at that than applying big-ass knuckle bandaids.

        • elle says:

          Anyone could have punched him in the nose before or after he left the police station. If people will shoot themselves to get away with murder, they will certainly bang their head on something or ask someone to hit them.

    • Romaine says:

      I’ve been trying to post a pic of a kel tec 9 in that position for months…thank you so much for this post. there is a kel tec with a “U” shape at the slide position that matches the welt on the back of GZ’s head…look at the shape of the ridges on the slide it forms the same angle as the welt…like a “u” with lil curves on the end. I kills me that I can post the way you all do

    • MedicineBear says:

      BINGO! (Or, more accurately, BANG-O then *BONK* on the snout!)

    • Rachael says:

      Look at those scratches on his face. If they had come from Trayvon, there would be DNA under his nails. The effer fell into the bushes or the tree or got them rolling around on the ground. God I hate that lying shimmyer.

  73. Judy75201 says:

    If fogen wasn’t sure the bullet had even hit Trayvon, why would he stop screaming his terrified-little-girl butt off the moment the shot was fired?

    • disappointed says:

      Why did he not look back? I mean if this person has attacked me once, the last thing I am doing is turning my back on them. He knew. Again just another one of the lies.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      I hope the prosecutor points that out, Judy.

    • MedicineBear says:

      I wonder if CAC screamed like a little girl during his target* practice sessions at the gun range with Oysterman. I’m sure terrified shrieking is common on the practice range while all the over-compensating he men are pounding off rounds from their big ass guns.

      *target practice (practice shooting using cardboard replicas of a hoody-clad pBa-lack kid) NOT to be confused with Target Shopping (hunting down and shooting a flesh-and-blood hoody-clad pBa-lack kid — code name: Operation Target Shopping Without a List).

      • jm says:

        It is too bad no one has a copy of Trayvon’s voice. Racheal said he had a soft baby voice at times.

        I do hope it comes into testimony the sequence of events that GZ said happened, that he did not know he shot Trayvon and so it would be logical he would continue screaming for help if he believed he was still in danger.

        I believe at one point he said was shouting so the police who he knew were coming could find him. Why stop yelling if he was trying to alert the police about his whereabouts.

        Also want to know that once he knew he shot Trayvon, why he told the neighbor not to call 911 to summon medical help and an ambulance.

        • disappointed says:

          jm I think there is recordings of his voice. Whether home video, friends phone video, or videos he did himself. I believe Tracy said his son liked recording videos and taking pictures. In the beginning of investigation they thought he might have tried to video Fogen. I do not think at the time they knew how short this “deadly” fight was.

        • PiranhaMom says:


          I heard Trayvon’s voice on the video taken on his camera of the two silly-ass grown men playing yank&tug over the found bicycle.

          “Let’s get the back story,” says Trayvon with an adolescent’s high-spirited, happy – almost giggling – voice.

          He thought those two supposedly grown up men were ridiculous -and he was going to catch their antics on camera. He considered what they were doing was ridiculous for adults to do. And those guys really DID look ridiculous!

          Trayvon had a young, joyous voice. Not a child’s voice. A young adolescent’s voice. Happy and bubbly and filled with mirth.

          That was then.

          And this is now.

      • Judy75201 says:

        Oh, I believe with all my heart fogen was “Target shopping”. If it hadn’t been Trayvon that night, it would have been another kid another night.

    • groans says:

      @ Judy75201 – Actually, why would a man with a gun be screaming in terror at all? This reminded me of a Buffalo Springfield song (lyrics tweaked JUST a tad):

      There’s something happening here
      What it is ain’t exactly clear
      There’s a man with a gun over there
      Screamin’ like a child, loud into the air

      I think it’s time we stop, children, what’s that sound
      Everybody look what’s going down

  74. Sophia33 says:

    Why if you are going to attack someone, would you stay on the telephone with someone else? Doesn’t make sense. And no matter how much the defense tries to discredit Rachel the timeline speaks for itself. I believe it was 27 seconds after her call cut off that the first 911 calls about a fight occurred. The defense can’t get around this. They can’t erase Rachel’s timeline.

    If Trayvon was going to attack Zimmerman, why would Trayvon stay on the phone? Staying on the phone having a conversation is not conducive to hiding in wait to catch someone by surprise. Neither does saying, “What are you following me for?” Someone on HP tried to argue that he wanted to impress Rachel. But that wouldn’t make sense because he ran AWAY from Zimmerman. If he wanted to impress her wouldn’t he have started a fight right then and there versus waiting? Wouldn’t you think?

  75. Did Don West’ daughter post pics from inside the courtroom and was it deliberate to get a mistrial? There is a photo posted of Rachel on the witness stand with Don West standing close to her.

    • disappointed says:

      Are people in the courtroom allowed to take photos?

      Fred I do have a question. If the photo is about Rachel, will West be allowed to question her again? It seems like intimidation or something. Is this defense team really worthy of the praise they are receiving? I can’t imagine stooping so low to praise them but some people seem fairly low on standards. jmo

      • It is a photo of Rachel, but I do not know if it was taken in court or snipped from a youtube video.

        If West’s daughter took the photo in court, she probably will be barred from the rest of the trial and perhaps ordered to pay a fine.

        I doubt it would affect whether she could be recalled to the stand.

    • I also am wondering about that or was it captured from a youtube video?

      Don’t know, but it would not result in a mistrial, if she did snap a photo in court.

      She probably would be barred from the rest of the trial and possibly sanctioned too.

    • groans says:

      SG2 – Where is that “inside the courtroom” photo posted, please? Thx.

      • I’m not sure if it was taken inside the courtroom. Like the Professor stated it could be from a Youtube video but anyways Rachel West is the one who posted it. It’s here.

        • groans says:

          Thanks again, SG2.

          IMO, the picture of “Daddy-O-Skeletor” next to Rachel J. at the witness stand looks too crooked (literally) to be from any YouTube video that was recorded from “official” coverage – which leads me to suspect that it’s an inside-the-courtroom shot.

          Once again (like Miss Molly’s), Rachel West’s photo and caption suggest that Don West is even more inept at parenting than he is demonstrating to be at lawyering. Do any of his kids have any sense…???

          And the girls’ taking credit for some imagined “victory” that – EVEN IF it were real – they certainly did not earn, but could only INHERIT. What’s up with that?

          That’s what’s known as ENTITLEMENT, not merit.

          Those girls almost certainly learned their sense of entitlement and superiority at home. I mean, really … where else? Kinda reminds me of Robert Jr. and George Zimmerman.

  76. Judy75201 says:

    West is proud to be a flustering blustering snake oil salesman of a lawyer. He’s freakin’ proud if he can confuse with bullshit. I find that shameful.

    • pat deadder says:

      I don’t really think omara or west give a shit whether fogen goes to prison or not it’s about money and fame for them.There is a strange dynamic going on between omara and fogen.All is not well between them.Could omara get fired is that possible.

  77. Melo says:

    West will not be able to explain away his clients story of why he had to pull and fire his weapon. In police interviews his client says that Trayvon saw the gun said you are going to die tonight and then reached for the gun. His client then gave a ridiculous story about how he was able to stop Trayvon from reaching the gun. But the bottom line is he said the struggle over the gun is what ultimately led him to draw, AIM, and fire not all this MMA bs west is alleging.

    • EdgySF says:

      Supposedly all that and more transpired in 2 minutes.

    • PiranhaMom says:


      Not only was Zimmerman’s story ridiculous, his re-enactments (twice!) of his “capturing” Trayvon’s hand in Zimmerman’s armpit throws you on the floor, engulfed in laughter.

      Zimmerman never tried out this act looking in a mirror, before performing it for Sanford PD cameras.

      To get his gun out (as Zimmerman displayed), he had to hunch up his shoulder – which would immediately open up his armpit like a giant clamshell, releasing Trayvon’s hand.

      This is all just giant clamshit.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        That’s right. I realized that also.

      • Tee says:

        OMG! I never thought of that. How do you hold his arm with your arm and reach for your gun without bending your arm. He can’t even say that he used the other hand because Trayvon’s body would be blocking. He was on top at the time of the shot.

    • dianetrotter says:

      Especially since he knows MMA. He had enough practice to put Trayvon down without shooting him.

    • kllypyn says:

      Remember where he said his gun was. No one is gonna say you’re gonna die tonight when confronted with a gun. I believe he said that to trayvon just before killing him.

      • Shari says:

        Everything Fogen did he blamed on the kid. So Fogen tortured Trayvon. He creeped him out by following him at night, he chased him on foot. There are people who dismiss this as if it’s nothing, but imagine how frightening that was. He actually chased Trayvon in the dark as if he were in some slasher horror movie. Here is my conjecture but he sucker punched & got Trayvon on the ground. Punched and hit him MMA style, painfully restrained Trayvon, then before he killed him he TOLD HIM, “You’re gonna die tonight m___er.” Why do I believe this? Because it fits with the evidence. After all, his friend Taffee did say that Fogen was mad as hell and not going to take it anymore.

        And I will always believe he was high or drunk that night. I know what someone sounds like under the influence.

  78. fauxmccoy says:

    preach it, brother leatherman!

    • fauxmccoy says:

      and following

    • PiranhaMom says:


      Every one of my friends, if not already “a liar” is a potential liar.

      Case in point: I lose ten pounds (to my friends’ approval – after all, it’s “a health thing,” right?)

      Then I buy a pair of jeans two sizes smaller and parade before them.

      “Do these jeans make me look fat?” I inquire.


      Every one of them a liar … does this impeach their future testimony in court?

      In fact, it was FDLE who asked “Diamond” (my favorite of all Rachel’s names) if, with high blood pressure, she had to “go to the hospital or somewhere” and she agreed.

      “Somewhere” likely meant she took to her bed, and cried over the loss of her friend. Again.

      And again.

      “Diamond” is my hero, standing for THE WHOLE TRUTH.

      Zimmerman chased, intercepted, confronted and threw down Trayvon, and then he shot him pointblank in the heart.

      Zimmerman was pissed that the stucco guys got the credit for the arrest of thieves days earlier – even though he had no involvement in that at all. (Recal, please, the current FOA Presidnt’s testimony.) He wanted ALL the credit for being the (self-appointed) High Sheriff of RATL.

      He NEEDED that ego reinforcement. He couldn’t stand anybody else getting ANY credit.

      By trapping ad killing Trayvon Martin, he was making damned certain that he would get the credit this time.

  79. racerrodig says:

    Great post as always….

    “Instead, by exploiting cultural and language differences to impress everyone with how smart and clever he believes himself to be, he proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is a self-centered and bigoted asshole.”

    “…..he is a self-centered and bigoted asshole.”

    Hmmmmmm, we’ve come a long way since some months ago when you had a post about being a little kinder to Moron O’ Mara. I hate to say it but I can smell one a mile away, and the state is dealing with two of them that have no shame whatsoever.

    I also see he never actually explained how the term “Cracker” came about. It’s a term derived from “Whip Cracker” that was used in the 17th & 18th Centuries. My great, great grandfather’s diary uses the term very often. They are Cajuns and they went through almost what black slaves went through. The “Cracker” this diary refers to is a black slave who was the head guy way out in the fields.

    Once again, they have it wrong. In my opinion this “crazy ass cracker” means a “goofy assed ball breaker” who can’t mind his own business. Now when Taaffe said the other night he’s a cracker, yep, he’s a ball breaker…..a racist, moronic ball breaker.

    There…….I said it.

    • Puck says:

      Hey racer,

      I forgot: what was your guess on the series of GZ phone calls that your LE buddies were so impressed with? I can’t wait for all of that to come out.

    • disappointed says:

      Frank T. is so mentally challenged. First I am a person who says what I mean and mean what I say. If he is a racist he should own it. Stop sugar coating it. He IS a racist, why does he deny it? Afraid? Afraid of what? He drinks and drives, drinks and talks, drinks and walks, drinks with both feet in mouth (add legs too). Does this fool truly believe he is helping his friend? Helping his cause? I would respect him if he come out wearing his sheet. At least it would be honest. I wouldn’t even care if he wore his sheet while drinking.
      MOM and the whole crew piss me off. Slamming the VICTIM. Defending the killer at all cost. Good attorneys can defend without slandering the deceased victim. IMO he is no different than Arias’s attorney. Most despised him, but worship MOM. Is there a difference other than the color of skin of the victim?
      Fogen needs to find remorse or some kind of emotion while in court. It does not go unnoticed that he feels nothing. As the adult he could have identified himself or kept his worthless ass in his truck. WHO shoots anyone and feels nothing for the loss of life? A murderer. Not someone who felt they had no choice. Even those people feel guilt.

    • KA says:

      But actually….the CAC term is in popular culture because of a Chris Rock phrase. He has a famous comedy bit where he says “Cracker ass cracker”. Trayvon’s words are just a reflection of this pop culture.

      He also used the word “Nigah” as well to describe him…so how does anyone put racial meaning on either? He used them both in 2 minutes of time.

  80. whonoze says:

    Inquiring minds want to know: 🙂

    When Rachel said TM called GZ a “creepy ass cracker,” Don West took that to be some kind of anti-honky racial epithet. Yet Rachel testified that in the context TM used it, the phrase means “pervert.” It occurs to me that on re-direct, Bernie might have clarified: “Did you take Trayvon to mean ‘creepy-ass cracker’ or ‘creepy ass-cracker’?” Oh, for the missed opportunities…

  81. bettykath says:

    The defense strategy is to sow reasonable doubt. So far they tried to break Rachel’s testimony (unsuccessfully), they used the PA to give possible diagnosis to photographs (she was outside her expertise), they tried to get John to expand his “rational thinking” to include MMA blows (unsuccessfully, but watch this space, MOM wanted to talk with him outside the courtroom).

    West put Rachel through 2 days of deposition and then 5 hours over 2 days of cross examination. It was his objective to break her as a necessary part of showing reasonable doubt. He failed miserably. Not only didn’t he break her, he accented her testimony for the jury. When the jury deliberates, everyone of them will know who she is, that she’s a truth-teller, and what her truth is.

    Beginning day 2 with “you seem so different today, did someone talk to you about your performance yesterday?” in a patronizing tov. [barf]

    The attitude shown by him and his daughters is one of white class privilege. white privilege and (financial or connections) class privilege. They use these props of the color of their skin, their financial status and their societal connections to define who they are and why they are better than those around them who aren’t as “special” as they are. They are not part of the 1% that own us all, but they are among the next 9% who serve as the lackeys of the 1%.

    A nugget from Garrison Keillor: 6 people, the Walton family, own more wealth than 40% of the people in this country.

    • ks says:

      Agreed. Just to add a small nugget to your privilege statement, compare how RJ was treated with the near total silence about John Goode’s wife, Jena(sp?), lying in court about her twitter account and then deleting it after she testified. Think about the assumed privilege that makes one think they can lie on the stand, deleted the evidence after testifying, and think they can get away with it.

      Also remember how SZ schemed to get TM’s dad kicked out of the court? Let’s see how DW’s daughters are treated.

      • vickie s. votaw says:

        I think Jenna is Jeremy’s wife

      • Xena says:

        O’Mara’s smirk as Bernie showed Jenna her Twitter account spoke volumes. For one, it conveyed that O’Mara had already talked to Jenna about her Twitter account and advised her to delete her tweets.

        I am unfamiliar with Twitter and could be wrong, but logically, how could anyone have followers if they never tweeted anything to let people know of their account?

        • Two sides to a story says:

          It’s possible because once you set up the account, people can follow you on their own if they can find your account.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            PS – But if Jenna followed people, she had to click some buttons to do that. Doesn’t mean she had to send tweets, but she’d have to deliberately follow others’ accounts.

          • Xena says:

            @Two sides. Thanks for that explanation.

            With word press blogs, people can click to follow the blog but they do not post comments, so I associate your explanation of Twitter with that.

        • elle says:

          Xena, people took screenshots of things her “friends” on twitter retweeted that she had tweeted in the past. She has tweeted. She just deleted all her tweets before court.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      The fun parts about West’s hectoring, and the court reporter’s repeated requests that Rachel repeat herself, is that it is totally believable that the transcripts of her interview with Crump, and her depositions, are incorrect as she said. Their lousy performance gives her more credibility.

  82. My Forehead Tho says:

    I think the biggest thing West accomplished when crossing Rachele was exposing his defense strategy to the jury- to lie, make things up, and to lie. For example, when he attempted to capitalize on Rachel’s speech impediment by making her “could/could’ve” statement into “couldn’t have”. Rather than ask Rachel to read the full transcript which confirmed what she actually meant, “could”, he forced her to read only the part of transcript that supported his agenda.

    When the closing argument comes around, I highly doubt the jurors will believe anything the defense says. After all they should be aware of all the lies West told them in his open statement by then.

  83. lady2soothe says:

    A Letter to Rachel Jeantel by Costley White

    Dear Rachel,

    I write this as I watch you testifying, tightening your lips, grinding your teeth in an attempt to be stoic, to not break down while you recount the grisly, too-soon murder of your friend. It was probably the most terrifying moment of your life. I can’t imagine listening, helpless, while my friend was stalked and murdered, panicked and afraid. You told him to run. You thought it would keep him safe. What could’ve been going through your mind that day? Did you worry when the phone was cut off? When Trayvon didn’t call you back or return any of your missed calls?

    What could you have possibly felt when you found out that Travyon had been killed? Were you able to sleep that night? Have you been able to sleep since? “He sounded tired,” you said today on the stand. You do, too, Rachel. So tired.

    I want to write you an apology for this whole world, even if it’s not my place to apologize. I’m so sorry that you’re sitting on the stand right now, being interrogated like a criminal instead of another victim. I’m so sorry that people are judging you, fixated more on your beautiful brown skin, your carefully applied make-up, your body, your being, than your trauma and your pain. I’m sorry that you were born into a country where a man can pursue and kill a black boy, your friend, and go home the same night with the blessings of law enforcement officers. I’m sorry that you’ve been retraumatized, stigmatized, defamed, and attacked just because you were unlucky enough to love a black boy, to share time with him, to be the last one he ever called.

    I’m so sorry for your loss.

    This letter, I know, doesn’t make up for any of it. Not for the unimaginable grief and pain you’ve suffered in the last year. Not for the guilt or shame you’ve probably felt, which no doubt has affected your health and will continue to affect your life, your dreams, your faith. I can’t even fix the extreme likelihood that you and your children might soon find it impossible to vote in your home state. Or that you were never taught to read cursive, or that the school you grew up attending was probably more like a prison than a place of learning. I can’t promise that you, or another loved one (or mine) won’t, yet again, die too soon, too young, too black.

    But I’m writing this all the same.

    There are a lot of hateful things being said about you—comparisons to “Precious” (as if Gabourey Sidibe isn’t a real person or, irony of ironies, that Precious wasn’t also a victim of trauma), people making fun of your frankness, your tenacity, your refusal to codeswitch out of your mother-sister-brother tongue. You exemplify, in your girth, skin tone, language, and manner, a refusal to concede. You are a thousand Nat Turners, a quiet spring of rebellion, and some folks don’t know how to handle that.

    In truth, you’re part of a long legacy of black women so often portrayed as the archetypal Bitch, piles of Sassafrasses, Mammies, and Jezebels easily dismissed, caricatured, and underestimated. For black women, in particular, being the bitch represents our historical exclusion from the cult of true womanhood, a theme traditionally bounded and defined by its contrast to white femininity. For some folks, being black and being a woman makes us less of both.

    Don’t forget that in just the last few years, Fox News called the First Lady of the United States “Obama’s Baby Mama,” that a popular radio host referred to a group of college athletes as “nappy-headed hoes,” and that even a gold-medal Olympian wasn’t able to escape physical scrutiny and bodily criticism on the world stage. This rhetoric is bigger than you, older than you, deeper than you—it is not you.

    (But you know that, already, don’t you?)

    I just want you to know: I am so proud of you. In you I see a fierce resistance that reminds me of ancestors past. Each time you open your mouth, look down, clench your cheeks in a fresh wave of pain, I see Sojourner Truth, Harriet Tubman, and Fannie Lou Hamer joining their spirits and bonding their strength to yours. I see a survivor, a woman who has miraculously kept her mind and nurtured her sanity enough that she can sit, for hours, and recount such horror. You have a brilliance that flares out, only to be quickly veiled by a glance down or a quiet stare. Past your soul-wrenching pain and your child-like bravado, I see hope and possibility, a small green tendril creeping out of a concrete playground. I see YOU.

    I hold you in me—and there are many, many others, with our arms, minds, and hearts holding you right alongside me. I hope you feel it. I hope you know it.

    And I’m so sorry that my apology isn’t enough.

    Costley White is a faculty member in the Department of Journalism and Media Studies at Rutgers University in New Brunswick.

    • Rachael says:

      I’m sure adding my apology isn’t enough either, but I will.

      • disappointed says:

        Dang took the words right out of my mouth!

        Beautiful apology yet it still does not seem like enough for the hours of torture and the months of pain that Rachel has been through. You would think Fogen would feel some guilt for her, but she is just a disposable baalack kid. What a waste he is.

        I too would like to add my most sincere apology to Rachel on behalf of all the people who do not appreciate your pain or the truth you have had to deal with. Great things will come to you, Rachel. Keep your head high. Many people think you are amazing.

    • breelee says:

      Oh Lady crying here. That letter says it all, and thank you for sharing. I’m so tired of feeling guilty for what other white people do and think. They are shameful and should all move to a place and live with likeminded idiots. THEY are the dirt on our shoes, not wonderful people like Rachel! I hope she gets to read this and know that there are people like the writer and us that care deeply for her and others being abused by racists like West.

    • MollyK says:

      How beautiful! Thank you for posting this. I only hope that Rachel sees it.

    • Yorazigo says:

      Beautiful and touching letter to a beautiful young woman!

    • dianetrotter says:

      I wish she had turned comments off. legaleagle p’d me off. The other comments are not helpful either.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      that is beautiful, thank you for bringing to my attention.

      • looneydoone says:

        Two of the professor’s essay’s this week have upset the cac brigade…look at the number of votes, and low ratings

        This is a good sign. They know the evidence for a M2 conviction has not been fully revealed, and they’re in a panic.

        I too would like to contribute to Rachel’s future needs, be it college, job training or re-location. Sign me up. You have my e-mail addy

        • fauxmccoy says:

          you are right on the cac-brigade. have noticed it before. it’s fear. will keep you posted on contact with ms. jeantel’s attorney.

    • Romaine says:

      wow that was beautiful…

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Beautiful and so true!

    • EdgySF says:

      I hope we see more of Rachel. She’s real. I like her. Actually, I love her…what I mean is, despite what the media are saying about her, Rachel is very “like able.”

    • Malisha says:

      WOW! Took my breath away! ❗

    • Two sides to a story says:


      I hope some day that Don West will apologize to Rachel.

    • ay2z says:

      Thank you for posting that letter.

      Canadians too, care. wosj Rachel could have a visit with Maya Angelou, she radiates the strength and wisdom of her own struggles through her writings and poems. Maya would be a wonderful inspiration and life changer for young Rachael, She deserves something like this..

      Rachael showed the strength she has within her. Her fears caused her to avoid the funeral/wake for clearly stated and believable reasons, and the age thing too, just fear and avoidance. Rachael is past those fears and no longer a need to avoid, and she will come through her trial by fire, test of the West and all of his dirty tricks.

      West may not fare so well. The jury sees what he is about.

      • lady2soothe says:

        Thank you to all who thanked me for posting the letter, now I ask everyone to go to and the the petition.

        Subject: Stand with Rachel Jeantel: And Put Bullies On Notice


        The bullies came out in force last week as Rachel Jenteal, a 19 year old teenager from Miami, FL, gave testimony in the murder trial of George Zimmerman. The neighborhood watch captain stands accused in last year’s shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin. Born into a multicultural home where English is not her first language, Rachel spoke in the language of her community, recounting her cellphone conversation with Trayvon, not knowing that moments later, his life would tragically end. Why, then, has Rachel suffered such vicious, personal attacks?

        That’s why I signed a petition to Roderick Vereen, Esq., Attorney Representing Rachel Jeantel.

        Will you sign this petition? Click here:


  84. disappointed says:

    I will add my 2 cents and then read all the comments. I totally agree and I think it is amazing that you can see it for what it is. I realize you have represented for the defense team for many years, yet you still call it wrong when it is wrong, THANK YOU!

    I personally do not believe she lied. Before statements came out she told what she knew. She may have not told it all but she told the important stuff. I get not wanting to hurt the Mom and Dad. Trayvon had every right to call Fogen a CAC, imo he could have been called a lot worse. Had it been me I would have called him a lot worse. OH well if Fogen’s feelings got hurt. WHAT gave him the right to watch follow, follow some more and run after a CHILD that did not belong to HIM? IMO Trayvon probably did think Chester the molester was after him disguised as a skin head.

    Rachel rocks. As far as West and his spawn, way to raise them. It is parents like you imo that raise the Fogens and Casey Anthony’s of the world. Be proud your spawn are known all over the world to be racist scum.

  85. newmediacounsel says:


    Can you have a Q&A about the legal aspects of the case?

    Or perhaps, an overview linking to prior posts. I tried to find some of your prior articles, but they were difficult to find by Googling them. Perhaps, I wasn’t using the right search terms, but it would helpful to understand, at least for me, the legal aspect as we are watching the factual aspect of the case play out.

    • My articles are indexed in the box labeled “Categories” on the right side of the page.

      • newmediacounsel says:

        I will try that. I have been having problems really trying to explain to people the pursuit issue. So, far all I found were two cases as I mentioned involving pursuit, but those started with much earlier incidents of altercations so the pro Zimmermans have argued that this means the early altercation were the point although the court included the pursuit as evidence of provocation as well. So, thanks.

        • aussie says:


          there have been a few cases with pursuit involved. In some it was all over and the person went back afterwards… that is clearly not self defence (to us). There was one case where the person claiming self defence was actively chasing the other (both by car) and shooting at them from a distance. But true the chasees were shooting back, too. And apparently they started it. It was some drug deal gone wrong.

          There are numerous cases where the4 victim was shot while walking away(from a fight or argument). The police seem to be 50-50 about charging or not, and the courts 50-50 about letting them off. Surprise surprise both charges and convictions are more likely if the shooter was… guess what colour?

        • Xena says:

          @newmediacounsel. A good case for comparison, IMO, is the Trevor Dooley case. Dooley did not start the physical altercation, and the victim’s daughter supported that in her testimony. However, Dooley made it possible for him and the victim to come into physical contact by leaving his garage/driveway and going to where David James sat.

  86. newmediacounsel says:

    Unfortunately, he knew it would be effective in pushing for reasonable doubt.

    The doubt, of course, is illegitimate in that its really racism that drives their belief that she’s not credible as a witness.

    The same racism that will make the jury believe that the person fighting MMA style was not the defendant although there is now evidence that he was the one who k new MMA style fighting.

    Reading online, I’ve come to see this cases like Gates of Harvard. The White Liberals like Jeralyn over at Talk Left are rationalizing their bigotry behind process and form, but when you ask them about the details, they only want to focus on certain “facts” (which are often their interpretation of evidence) rather than look at what all the evidence is consistent with.

    I spent Friday night in an exchange with a few people who claimed to be objective to test whether they could explain, for example, why provocation couldn’t be shown with the evidence presented at trial this week. At first, they claimed provocation required an illegal act, and when I proved that wasn’t true, they changed it to pursuit isn’t sufficient, and when I showed that pursuit could be a basis (at least in part) of provocation) they claimed that I was wrong by factually trying to disquinquish the case I cited and never admitted that any part of what I said could be right. Which was all i was asking.

    It was Deny. Deny. Deny.

    Unfortunately. I have seen this before. I am black. I see this all the time with whites and their racist views. Their first weapon is denial. To make you feel like you are crazy. To hide behind process that is just vague enough to be plausibly denied. That’s modern racism for you.

    The trial here to anyone paying attention was overt racism, but the problem is that the jury may rationalize what they saw as impeachment although what they are actually thinking is uneducated black person.

    My point is that the defense is using the tools that this society has given it to get their client off. While I think what he did is reprehensible, it only can work because of the society we live in.

    I had a conversation with a white friend who said the same to me. He said he wish this trial was over because its bringing out some of the worst in terms of racist attitudes pretending to be objectivity.

    I’m not so convinced that the prosecution can win anymore. Mostly because I am now reminded of something i try no to think about every day- racism. That’s the wild card.

    • lets REMEMBER,the month before the crime TM was 16.He was a young boy,tall for his age.Boy,Boy,Boy,cant say it enough.he didnt know how to save himself from this sociopathic murderer stalking,him,hunting him,using his MMA skills. .Like OJ ,if he gets off he will OFFEND again,and again.

    • ks says:

      Well said. To a couple of your points:

      “The same racism that will make the jury believe that the person fighting MMA style was not the defendant although there is now evidence that he was the one who knew MMA style fighting.”

      It’s amazing eh? The defense and its supporters has spent month after month trying to invent a MMA rep for TM. The insinuations, the “fight videos”, the texts but when it comes out that GZ was the one who was a member of a MMA gym and stated that he trained in MMA 3x a week, you hear nothing. In some cases, it’s worse they blatantly ignore the reality and continue to push the MMA on TM. The disconnect is staggering.

      “Reading online, I’ve come to see this cases like Gates of Harvard. The White Liberals like Jeralyn over at Talk Left are rationalizing their bigotry behind process and form, but when you ask them about the details, they only want to focus on certain “facts” (which are often their interpretation of evidence) rather than look at what all the evidence is consistent with.”

      Frankly, though Big Tent Democrat has been carrying the intellectual weight and relevancy of Talk Left for awhile now, but JM has fully disgraced herself and Talk Left. There is a big difference between advocating from a defense perspective and the nonsense she’s engaged in now. I doubt TL will fully recover.

      • newmediacounsel says:

        I visited Talkleft this week on these issues. she’s eliminated almost all dissenting voices and there are some straight up bigots like TeresainPa who she says nothing to. I remember in that same thread someone made the mistake of suggesting that evidence could be read as far as Rachel’s testimony as validating the prosecution argument, and Jeralyn attacked the writer. My position is concede points that need to be conceded. Rachel’s false prior statements for example is good impeachment material for the defense. we have to conceded that. But then to allow cultural bigotry to be added into what is acceptable reasons to have a problem with the witness is to me when you lose credibility. I didn’t see anything in her testimony that was earth shattering for either side. In fact, I thought it odd the press referred to her as the star witness. I thought she’s important but the real case is the weight or totality of the evidence together

        • whonoze says:

          You’re too kind nmc. Jeralyn hasn’t banned “almost all” dissenting voices on her forum while letting the bigots run free, she’s banned ALL dissenting voices. **end rant**

          • Sophia33 says:

            Question: Talk left is supporting the defense? WHY?!

          • newmediacounsel says:

            1. Because Jerlyn is a defense attorney.

            2. She’s right there’s a way to find that defendant not guilty on the evidence depending on how the case is tried

            3. But, and this is key, she’s crossed a line along time ago on this case and went from being a defense attorney to things like fund raising for the defense (she has a vested interest at this point in her position)

            4 As a result I think that blinds her to some of the racist comments she lets fly on her site. She loves to talk about women’s right issues, but the problem I have is that apparently the only issue in terms of identity politics that matters to her is gender.

          • aussie says:

            “she’s banned ALL….” says one good recipient of the Merritt badge 😉

            For all her record, she’s not much of an attorney is she keeps insisting forensically proven BS is “factual evidence”. She still believes the nose was broken AND that that proves he was attacked.

            I’m going back to all these places when this is over, just to see how they rationalise having been WRONG.

          • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

            Besides which, women do not like to tell their age. I was taught that it is not polite to ask women their age either. If you ask me my age, my answer will always be, “Older than my teeth and younger than my tongue.”

            I definitely understood why she didn’t want to see the body. There are grown people that will tell you that they don’t want to go to a funeral or see the body because they’d rather remember the person as they were when they last saw them.

        • Sophia33 says:

          Wow! I’m shocked. I never would expected this from TalkLeft. But then again, I should not be surprised that gender politics trumps racial politics for her. That often happens. Remember, Ida B. Wells went to Alice Paul to join the suffrage movement and she was told that her participation would bring up the voting issues of blacks in the South. One of my favorite feminist writer’s bell hooks wrote a book called, “Feminist Theory: From Margin to Center”. She goes into the racial politics of the feminist movement. So again, it shouldn’t be surprising.

          • newmediacounsel says:

            My comments about gender v. race is just speculation.

            Its just I’ve seen the site go ballistics for even a side swipe about gender issues, but we have people saying clearly bigoted things that is not been seen as such.

            There are legitimate reasons to question Rachel as far as her earlier false statements, but when you start talking about the way she talks etc that’s when bigotry is at play nd yet nothing is said about it

            Meanwhile anything that even remotely states that the prosecution may have a point either gets a quick response from Jeralyin as far as I could tell from the last week or is deleted so I am not even sure what the comment was

          • aussie says:

            Rachel did not tell a lie about anything material.

            She didn’t go to the wake for some different reason???? so what??? A woman didn’t tell the truth about her age? SHOCK HORROR let’s impeach half the population. Those lies are about on par with if one of the others didn’t tell the truth about what she was cooking when she went to turn the stove off at the very moment of the gunshot.

        • Malisha says:

          She’s important to the prosecution because it is undeniable that Trayvon Martin did not hide and ambush Fogen. He could not have hidden and ambushed Fogen. That being done with, there is no scenario that will be REASONABLE that will support a finding of self defense. Fogen’s sunk. Because of the conduct of his team, family and counsel since the crime, he is sunk in the sewer. GOOD BYE to bad rubbish.

          • Malisha says:

            Oh and Jeralyn? SHe has held “He was on the ground having his head slammed on the concrete and he had his nose broken” as fact. So she wrote her own Bible. Surprise, surprise. She also predicted there would be no trial because Trayvon’s parents would not want HIS BADNESS exposed. She’s a racist, I’m sorry to cut to the chase like this, but there’s no other logical explanation now.

          • Two sides to a story says:

            I agree. She’s gone beyond the defense attorney angle, gone beyond the CCW permit holder angle, and is now flagrantly dancing with bonafide Treestump racists.

      • Rachael says:

        Although it isn’t proof that it is true, it proves my *feeling* that everything GZ says and does but attributes to Trayvon.

      • i have had nightmares,wondering what this poor kid was going through the night he died,like the young soldiers on the battlefieild cry moma ,when they are horrifically wounded,i cant listen to his scream anymore! no can do.this Cretin(apoligies to real cretins,needs to do 20 or 30 in the Graybar Hotel

        • kllypyn says:

          i’ve never heard momma. although i believe he did say it. teenagers generally do that when they know they are about to die both boys and girls

      • Malisha says:

        Frankly, now we know why the defense did not want Fogen’s medical records older than six months to come in: because the MMA training 3 X/week 3 hours/day (nine hours a week, an obsessive amount of MMA training!) was in the medical records. I think that is the piece that is going to seal Fogen’s fate. Nobody can understand how a guy with that training could lie there NOT USING HIS HANDS AT ALL while being beaten and slammed. His hands were, after all, attached to his body at all times.

        Remember Hawkeye Pierce of M*A*S*H: “Notice, the fingers never leave the hands…”

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I suspect Jeralyn won’t be winning any awards for her blog this year.

    • vickie s. votaw says:

      Abusers do that also. I remember when my neighbor heard my ex railing at me. He asked me if my husband was crazy & why did I put up with that. It was the first time the problem wasn’t just 2 wills clashing but it was my ex’s meltdown & my reaction, one of the first steps toward me leaving.

    • colin black says:

      Are you on drugs or summpin Neither Trayvon or Rachel were raceist ????

      There languge reflects there hood inner city Miami.
      Words like nigger cracker are used in every day talk an flows not from hate but from the ethinicity of there environment?

      Iis not driven by hate or xenophobia but as languge SLANG


      • aussie says:

        This happens all over the world. The victims of a slur adopt it among themselves in a sarcastic way, then it loses its bite and slips down to be an ordinary slang word (again). The next generation doesn’t even know how hurtful it was originally.

    • colin black says:


      If I were you I would seek new Medical Council.

      • crazy1946 says:

        colin black, thank you for saying what I have been sitting here wanting to say, but with the comments casting all whites as racist, I decided not to say my thoughts because we do not need that kind of fight on this site at this time! Racism is something that is not owned simply by skin color…..

        • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

          Crazy, I don’t think they believe that ALL whites are racist. At least, I know that I don’t believe that ALL whites are racist because I know better. If ALL whites were racist, slavery and Jim Crow would have never ended. Nor would some of the whites posting on here or other blogs be trying to help seek justice for Trayvon. Whites participated in that March to force them to arrest Trayvon too and signed that petition. Black people know that ALL whites are not racist.

          • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

            Sorry for my error, but I meant to say “arrest Zimmerman” instead of arrest Trayvon. Please forgive me, but I confess that I am a lazy in checking for errors before I submit. Yes, that is embarrassing for me at times. That’s one of my human flaws.

          • KA says:

            I am white, but I am not really offended or upset by claims that whites are racist…why? Because, if we are being honest, the majority of us are completely unaware of white privilege and the devastating impact to any form of positive social relations.

            I remember when I was young and foolish in my early/mid 20s, I invited a AA friend of mine to church. I told her she would love it.

            As we sat down after the music, sermon, etc. I asked her if she lived it. She looked at me with a blank stare and said “I feel like a speck”. I didn’t know what she was talking about. I wanted to introduce her to people, she wanted no part of it.

            I am ashamed I was so insensitive. She was right, there was not a nonwhite person in that room. I hadn’t thought about it…why?

            Because I never have to think about it.

            I wasn’t a KKK racist, but I was used to living in predominantly white areas and never worrying about being “different” in a crowd. I believe that insensitivity is what allows overt racism to fester and grow. The issue is, the attitude of many whites are perfect feeding grounds of racist ideals. thoughts, or actions. That can be covert or overt. I know, in looking back, I was as well.

            Tim Wise is a master at explaining how this “privilege” spreads in contemporary society.

            Needless to say, I have nonwhite children now. I think a lot about what being a “speck” would feel like anymore.

        • type1juve says:

          Crazy1946, I definitely do not think that all white people are racist. There are too many good white people on this blog fighting for Trayvon for anyone to think otherwise. Racists come in all colors.

    • IMBack says:

      I have come to think that the IDEALOGY of the two sides in this case could be the biggest non stated fact when the two sides clash, yes racism is what everybody is talking about but there are people who talk and engage with the opposite side and thats where a difference in idealogy or racism can define that person.

      Which one is racisim and which one isjust an ideology difference.

      1.In this case we, LLB, say, you can’t just follow someone and then shoot the person and say self defense. The otherside say, “It not aganist the law to follow someone and if they attack/confront you, then yes, its self defense.

      Idealogy or racism?

      I say thats an idealogical difference.

      2. We say so what if he did some smoke weed or was suspensed from school, the otherside says, “He’s a thug that got what he deserved.

      Idealogy or racism?

      I say racism

      I just think their is a difference that we have not had diaologue about because, most of these people are just racist. But I wouldn’t say all.

      • newmediacounsel says:

        THis is really about racial profiling. The idea that, of course, it was okay for Zimmmerman to question where Martin is is racism.

        what people, who are not comfortable with what they are really saying when they buy the defense, are doing is what a lot of middle class liberal white people do: rationalize

        The law is just vague enough to allow them to whenever there’s a question of which direction to go – to go the direction o having reasonable doubt

        “racial profiling” isn’t a threat to them. So, they don’t register the probem with setting up a policy where the laws essentially say black people can be followed with private citizens with guns and asked why they are there

        And if we don’t answer? Then what?

        They can attack us so long as no one is arround to confirm exactly all the moments of our deaths except for what that pursuer says

        To me, the real moments of when i can tell its racism is where they say “Zimmerman doesn’t even have to testify”

        What are they saying there?

        That the “not guilty” is evident. How is it evident? Zimmerman was attacked.

        Why was he attacked? that doesn’t matter. He was attacked/

        Why are these attacks sufficient to show he feared for his life?

        That doesn’t matter, he was attacked.

        Translation: He had a legitimate reason to be there. The black kid didn’t.

        You will never get that translation.

        as a person of color, I’ve tried to get people to stop denying what they are doing. They never do. they simply deny.

        They will continue to make logical leaps that they can’t quite explain and claim that I just don’t get it much like what you might fight in a right wing echo chamber. The problem is that I get all to well: There is nothing behind their hiding behind process other than their racial attitudes

        • KittySP says:

          On the topic of ideology vs racism…
          Last year during the holiday season while shopping at Target I only had a few items I purchased and they were in a hand basket. As I made my way towards the register I’m seeking to find the shortest line. Anyone that shops there regularly, knows that they have registers that allow you to get in line at the ones in the rear or the ones closest to the front.

          I initially got in a line that was the rear registers and in front of me was a white couple that looked to be in their 30s, with a shopping cart. After a few seconds I realized that the register directly in front of us had one person finishing up and I saw someone else coming through the aisle and get in line. I politely excuse myself to pass the couple in front of me. I had only walked a few feet before I heard the husband say, “I was about to go there”. I kept walking…Naturally,I think to myself, well you had ample enough time to do so!

          As I’m walking towards the register, I see the wife break off to my right thinking that she was going to try and get in line ahead of me which I was thinking that was fine, if you beat me to it. but instead she was going to the Starbucks. At the same time he says, “that’s okay babe, it’s their world”, and then she replies, “uh-ha, I know!” Now it took me a minute to realize that they were actually directing that comment at me. I never acknowledged them, smiled to myself, stood in line to pay for my purchases…as they begrudgingly came to stand in line behind me.

        • Malisha says:

          newmedia, agreed.
          I’m white. I was on a bus with another white woman (she was younger and she was a medical doctor) last year and somehow the Trayvon Martin murder came up. She said, “I think a wannabe cop just met up with a wannabe thug so it was an accident.” I asked, “Are real cops allowed to just stop-and-shoot real thugs?” Noooo… “Then wannabe cops are not allowed to stop and shoot wannabe thugs, right?” She said, “Well what’s YOUR take on the case?” (I never tell people unless they ask)

          “My take is that a wannabe cop decided that he had the right to stop the kid BECAUSE he felt like the kid was probably a thug or possibly a wannabe thug. The kid didn’t go along with the idea that some guy following him had the authority to stop him so he resisted. He was not resisting arrest; he was resisting a stranger taking control of him for reasons unknown. Thug or no thug, he had that absolute right. So the guy who has appointed himself top-cop started to apply force. When he didn’t get what he wanted, he applied more force and finally he applied deadly force. That’s MY TAKE on it.”

          She agreed with me three hours later (after a very civil conversation setting forth the real evidence known at that time and how it was known including the autopsy report). If she had been a stone racist she would have never even considered the evidence, but found a way to explain it away or deny it.

          All that is needed now is for the jury to really consider the real evidence. None of the prosecution witnesses has to be perfect; they just have to be reasonably sane and they are.

      • aussie says:

        Both cases are plain mistaken, too.

        It CAN be illegal to follow someone, that is exactly what stalking laws are about. The definition includes following in a manner that crates fear in the other person. Fear for which we have evidence in (a) Trayvon running even according to his killer and Rachel’s evidence about the creepy-ass cracka.

        So this case is plain ignorance of the law. The only way they can continue to believe it is to deny the truth about the evidence of fear. They don’t wish to continue believing it for ideological reasons. The want to believe it to make the victim LOOK GUILTY or the killer LOOK INNOCENT. That wish can be driven by ideology, or racism, or sexism or leaning towards “one’s own class” or even just by refusal to back down after mistakenly picking the wrong side.

    • dianetrotter says:

      If it is true that all 6 must agree, there is hope. All white people are not racists as evidence by participation on this list and a couple of pundits. There are many who believe GZ because they don’t know the details. If one votes guilty, that is an opportunity to retry. I think.

  87. Rachael says:

    He had every right to question (“attack”) her testimony, but not to question/attack her. Asking if she spoke English, being a bully. Trying to discredit her testimony is his job, but trying to belittle and discount her as a person was WAAAAYYYY out of line. It is like the whole fricken defense case all along though. They can’t come up with anything, so make her look bad, make the victim look bad.

    Such low, low tactics – I can’t believe this is allowed by the Bar Association.

  88. riisey007 says:

    There is nothing in this world that would change the ideals of a racist. They are programmed to hate and their beliefs why they don’t like a certain race is implanted deeply within their cold hearts. You will never get them to feel sorry for the death of a minority child and this is why Zimmerman is ok with murdering young Martin. There are way too many people who high five Zimmerman for what he did. Why would he ever take responsibility?! I wish we lived in a world where we didn’t have these prejudices because our children do not even need to know what the word means. I really hate that West has raised his daughter’s in such a way that they seem to feel it is ok to pick on people and target people for fun. They have a lot of living to do and a lot of lessons to learn. Sadly I am not new to racism and being treated poorly, I am so glad that it did not stop me from wanting my kids to love and respect everyone. You all are such a refreshing group of people, I love coming here and listening to you all. You guys make it possible for AA and other minorities to feel welcome in this Country.

    • vickie s. votaw says:

      You made me cry, it is a really good, healthy, loving blog. I think everyone but maybe one or two are super blessed by it.

  89. whonoze says:


    You left off the most important adjective: stupid. You’re right. He should have asked that one question, in a gentle and polite tone at that, and then sat his ass down. By ranting on and on at Rachel, I’m sure he was far more effective in alienating the jury and generating sympathy for Ms. Jeantel than he was at undermining her testimony. And MOM is stupid as well for letting West bulldog Rachel. He (MOM) could have done a much better cross, carefully posing a few key questions about Rachel’s account for the jury, and not coming off as a total dickhead in the process.

    • Rachael says:

      “By ranting on and on at Rachel, I’m sure he was far more effective in alienating the jury and generating sympathy for Ms. Jeantel than he was at undermining her testimony.”

      I just felt that needed to be repeated.


    • PiranhaMom says:


      Yes, if both these dickheads thought they stood a prayer of winning this case, they wisely would have addressed Rachel Jeantel with utmost grace and kindness, to an excruciating degree.

      But acting like a dickhead primes the pump for more racist donations, which is all they can aim for at this time.

      Oh, and getting equally dickhead racists as clients in future.

      You never know when BillyBob gets caught DUI, and needs a guy who “reelly unnerstanz me.'”

      A dickhead racist attorney is BillyBob’s kinda guy.

      • Malisha says:

        They weren’t doing it to effectively defend their client; they were doing it to give their client the gift of one last bullying “high” before he gets sent where “bullying” will be on the other hand.

      • abbyj1 says:

        Amen, PiranhaMom. And I love the very apt names you used to describe these pricks. Every single one is warranted.

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @Abbyj –

          Thanks, but I can’t take credit for all the apt names. WhoNoze wrote about West, “coming off as a total dickhead in the process.”

          I love WhoNoze — and I REALLY loved this characterization, so I “borrowed” it from him.

          One fine day the ladies in the choir are going to be impressed by my new and expanded vocabulary …

          This one describes Don West to a “T” (as in TD: total dickhead).

      • vickie s. votaw says:

        But, but, then they wouldn’t get as much $$$ from the tree stump peeps

        • vickie s. votaw says:

          I’m sorry, PM, I didn’t read your second paragraph before I posted

          • PiranhaMom says:


            That’ OK, Vickie – we’re all reading as fast as we can, trying to keep up and link the varying posts.

            And a big THANK YOU for signing the petition. Proud to see your name there! Look how fast the numbers are climbing!

            Rachel will know she is LOVE AND HONORED by THOUSANDS – as she deserves to be!

    • aussie says:

      West is the “secret weapon” don’t forget. The one who CAN go on and on for hours and confuse everyone. I do believe he has a problem himself, that is not all put on, but it’s intermittent. But mostly he has the cheek to go on and on, way beyond where anyone else would be deeply embarrassed.

      As for Rachel, I believe her weakness is her strength. She seems to have an emotional detachment in social situations, which stopped her totally losing it with West and creating a hysterical spectacle that wold have gone against her.

      Meanwhile she has a one-track single-issue mind. She remembered every word she’d said and insisted the transcripts were wrong, because she has that focus….. This could be the cause of some learning difficulties, but it comes in very handy sometimes. I know a few people like this; one runs a very successful business but you can’t get a single word of an answer from him when he’s driving, and he’s a bulldog when he knows he’s right about something.

      Rachel needs a good doctor, her I think thyroid problem fixed, and a good careers counsellor to find out what her biggest interest really is, and she’ll do extremely well in college.

    • KA says:

      No, it was an act….the was fundraising…that’s all.

      The donors have been smelling blood for a year over Rachel specifically. He had to give them a good show. He is well aware this case is a stinker. He had nothing to lose really.

  90. smokeegyrl says:

    Rachel is a beautiful young lady with a beautiful smile. They say you can see someone’s soul through their eyes.. All Rachels emotions came through her eyes… her sadness, her fear of seeing death, her fear of seeing her friends body… I seen it all through her eyes… I seen how she reacted to the lies West told her… it was like Rachel was the lie detector hooked up to the Aura of West… and she jumped every time he said something mean about Trayvon or lied about what she supposedly said to him… When Rachel spoke to West… it was like a force of wind coming out of her mouth such as the wind she heard on Trayvon’s phone blowing West backwards… This is how I seen it… She was furious and when she left the court room.. she turned back and smiled as if she said… West, you don’t have this SIR! You are Retarded Sir if you think so Sir!

  91. Trained Observer says:

    Is it reasonable to conclude that Don West’s chances of being rehired by the public defender’s office once this trial is over are … negligible, at best?

  92. Sophia33 says:

    Why is it so important to establish who was on the top and who was on the bottom in the fight? Even if Trayvon Martin was on top, that does not mean he started a the physical altercation. There are many bullies who have started fights and gotten their behinds beat.

    Case and point.

    I don’t agree with this title, but it proves my point.

  93. My lineage spreads all over THIS world
    you are blessed,i have extensively traveled the world,we are lucky,and have big perspective…be yourself! like DeeDee 100% authentic
    by the by love Creole food

  94. colin black says:

    PS Above I meant she took skellator to school ect.

    And bitch slapped his client foggagge as well with the


    She was correct possably on each and every count if foggagges afro Peruvian white ancestory family tree are true along with his cousins claims.

    An Rachel also got paedophile in by inferrall as if foggagge did have rape on his depraved agenda then he would be rapeing a child.

    An this would also be apt if COUSINS ALLEGATIONS ARE TRUE.

    And most think they are includeing moi.

    So once againd skellator.
    RACHEL DESCRIBED YOUR client to a T.

    With one word


    In the real WORLD that’s called game set an match.

  95. Rachael says:

    “he proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is a self-centered and bigoted asshole.”

    And his daughters confirmed it.

    • elle says:

      And stupid to as all get out. Too stupid to realize how stupid they are. Too stupid to be ashamed of themselves.

  96. smokeegyrl says:

    I was put in the Hall of Shame when I spoke Creole in the events room and was suspended by Facebook for 24 hours because they couldn’t make out what I had said. Sue P said this is the United States and in these states it was only for English Speaking lingo. All other languages need to go. I responded to her. Than the English Speaking need to go too because English hence comes from England. The United States belongs to all those who have come here from other countries and at one time… the land was merged into one. People make me sick… grrrrr… blood pressure going up again… Don’t let me start on the Race Issue… cuz I don’t believe in man made labeling of skin color. *crying* I was born on American Soil.. my origin is here… not Europe… not Spain… not Africa… not Japan… Not China… Not Austraila… Not Finland… My lineage spreads all over THIS world… I have 1400 trillion cells in my body which make up my dna from ancestry to ancestry… I’m a nation… I am who I am DAMN IT. they need to leave it alone.

    • Rachael says:

      “I have 1400 trillion cells in my body which make up my dna from ancestry to ancestry… I’m a nation… ”

      Love it!

    • two sides to a story says:

      Ugh. I really hate the English only nonsense. Makes Americans look foolish. I love hearing all the various languages here in S. Cali – too many to count – and our state sends out any and all mail in four languages – English, Spanish, Vietnamese, and Arabic. I love it!

      Not to mention, all human DNA can be traced back to a handful of African ancestors . . . we’re all related.

      I’m still having an ongoing battle with Facebook over my biz page. I’m in Day 9 of Facebook jail. They have not addressed the issue or answered any of my messages or responded to the original appeal, but had the nerve to send me a survey yesterday about their customer service. I gave them an earful. I’m accused of sexual solicitation or posting nude pictures from a business page and I wouldn’t be surprised if a Fogen supporter tagged it.

      • two sides to a story says:

        PS – that Sue P is an azz. You can tell I’m getting angry lately dropping my Buddhist compassion and respect and engaging in some name-calling. I’ve had it with these close-minded fools!

    • fauxmccoy says:

      my consistent argument with these folks is that the first amendment guarantees me the right to say whatever i want in whatever language i desire. it’s hard to argue against the first amendment and people wind up looking mighty foolish, since many of them cling to the amendments they hold dear.

      there is a reason this country has no national language or religion and not a day goes by that i am not grateful!

      • pat deadder says:

        Honestly I must say I have never met such a nice bunch of people as I have on this blog..If ever any of you come to Canada I’d be so proud to have you in my home. I do have a question though why do you call people hyphenated names like African American.We don’t do that up here.About to donate wish it could be more.Your country is lucky to have you all.If you figure out a way to help DeeDee I’m in.For some reason I think Trayvon called her DeeDee.and I understood every word she said.I didn’t understand the fuss.If it was her microphone why didn’t they fix it.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @pat — i will certainly keep everyone updated on project deedee!

          as to the question of african american, i am not the best person to ask. when i was a child in the mid 60s, the word that was commonly used was ‘colored’, my dad informed me during the civil rights movement that the preferred word was now ‘black’ which is what i have used ever since, it is certainly how my friends and former roommates identify. i also completely understand an individual opting for ‘african-american’. again, someone of african decent is far more capable of answering this than me. i call people what they wish to be called and rarely identify anyone by their skin color.

        • MichelleO says:

          It changed in the 80s to African American. That’s because whites in the media and in history books were often presented with their hyphenated lineages. So in order to be closer to being American, instead of just being a color; the name African American became popular. Many Americans started the hyphenated business as early as the Mayflower. Where I come from, there was always an Irish American and Polish American parade, along with communities called Little Italy and China Town. America has always been a country very conscious of it’s origins and lineage.

    • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

      smokeegyrl, I can relate to everything you’ve stated in your comment. My dad’s people were Creole too; therefore, I am used to Creole dialect.

      I participated in that 23andme DNA that Professor Louis Gates is affiliated with. I already knew the majority of my families’ genealogy history. Genealogy has been a hobby of mine since the late 80’s. I knew that all of my great(s) grandparents were biracial (black and white) and who some of their white fathers were. That knowledge was passed down through generations.

      Nevetheless, I was still surprised to find out the results of my DNA lineage:

      Sub-Saharan African
      East Asian & Native American
      South Asian
      That 1.8% is unassigned.

      The melting pot flows through my veins. Yes, you and I are a nation, and so are many people who were born in America, mainly, minorities born in America share the biggest mixture of different nationalities in their blood. It is also true with some whites, and some of them have black blood flowing through their veins. Whites who have been doing genealogy for a long time are aware of that and acknowledge it. Those who have been taught to hate, don’t want to acknowledge it because they see it as a threat to their status quo, which is silly, a white supremacist view, and selfish.

      Humanity is not sewn with one color thread, it is a combination of of different color threads, but some folks just don’t get that yet. But this younger generation and future generations are going to be the ones to force those with racist views to get a cure for their colorblindness.

    • KA says:

      Sue P is a scary, scary person.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I fear for her safety and her kids. She’s super in denial about her husband’s PTSD and his concealed carrying. He’s another accident waiting to happen. But then, I;ve read about and know a lot of people like this. At the very least, I’d be worried about suicide. I’ve seen far too many incidents and accidents in my life to be as confident as many people are about their gun ownership. Lock the firearms up if you keep them at home!!

    • abbyj1 says:

      So impressed that you speak Creole, smokee!

      A note about your suspension from FB. No surprise that FB won’t let you use Creole. Anything Zuckerberg can’t SELL into corporate hands, he won’t allow. IMO, FB has become the Demon Empire, selling every scintilla of personal and private information about us he can get his hands on.

      To be assured that the whole life of every FB member ends up in the laps of corporate data miners, Zuckerberg continues his onslaught against personal privacy. He’s even working on tagging every single photo on FB to sell it to corporations (and possibly to the government, according to reports) for digital facial recognition. Participate at your own peril. Smokee, you might want to consider your suspension for using Creole a lucky omen. JMO, but I have been doing whatever I can to see what Zuckerberg’s long-range intentions are with the data he has collected.

      • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

        I never trusted myspace or FB. It’s another one that going around now called Link It, I don’t trust it either. Nor do I trust google or yahoo.

      • fauxmccoy says:


        regarding FB and zuckwad

        ‘if you are not paying for a service as a consumer, you just may be the product.’

      • vickie s. votaw says:

        I have seen posts in many different languages on fb, fb & it weirdness is a pain in the you know what. I have had posts removed because of some idiot complaining , they do not investigate before they act

  97. just wanted to point out,a sadistic racist BIGOT,would need a SRB for an atty….THEY speak the SAME language

  98. OT,can one make a paypal donation,no credit cards here?

  99. oh a good read

    Both truly revealing and more than a little disturbing. I’ve heard pieces of it, repeated
    and attributed to Zimmerman, but this captures the conversational flow with this officer;
    and his whole presentation is so utterly bogus, or it appears that way to me.


    The Quote That Should End the Trayvon Trial
    June 24, 2013 * Esquire Magazine * by John H. Richardson

    George Zimmerman is going to be found guilty. All the evidence you need — all the evidence the cops needed — is right there in the interrogation they did with him three days after the shooting. The only thing more shocking than what Zimmerman says in the clip, which was released on the internet one year ago, is how little it has impressed the bloviating jerks who dominate the coverage of this trial.

    Why did he follow Martin, a police officer asks.
    “These assholes, they always get away,” Zimmerman answers.

    The officer asks, “What’s behind that?”
    “These people who victimize the neighborhood,” Zimmerman answers.

    In Zimmerman’s angry mind, without trial or jury, even after he killed him and learned he was a 17-year-old who was legitimately staying in the complex, Martin was an “asshole victimizing the neighborhood”.

    The officer gets a little defensive at this point. “There was an arrest a week ago,” he points out, though it is also a gentle reminder that Zimmerman’s fear might be a tad misplaced. He continues, skeptically. “How was he running?” Zimmerman describes it and the officer says, “Sounds like he was running to get away… you jumped out of car to see which way he was running? That’s not fear … it’s going to be a problem.”

    Then Zimmerman whispers something. “What is that you whispered?” the officer asks. “Fucking what?”
    “Punks,” Zimmerman says.

    An address? This may be the moment that will convict him.

    MORE HERE> (if you can stomach it)


    Both truly revealing and more than a little disturbing. I’ve heard pieces of it, repeated
    and attributed to Zimmerman, but this captures the conversational flow with this officer;
    and his whole presentation is so utterly bogus, or it appears that way to me.


    The Quote That Should End the Trayvon Trial
    June 24, 2013 * Esquire Magazine * by John H. Richardson

    George Zimmerman is going to be found guilty. All the evidence you need — all the evidence the cops needed — is right there in the interrogation they did with him three days after the shooting. The only thing more shocking than what Zimmerman says in the clip, which was released on the internet one year ago, is how little it has impressed the bloviating jerks who dominate the coverage of this trial.

    Why did he follow Martin, a police officer asks.
    “These assholes, they always get away,” Zimmerman answers.

    The officer asks, “What’s behind that?”
    “These people who victimize the neighborhood,” Zimmerman answers.

    In Zimmerman’s angry mind, without trial or jury, even after he killed him and learned he was a 17-year-old who was legitimately staying in the complex, Martin was an “asshole victimizing the neighborhood”.

    The officer gets a little defensive at this point. “There was an arrest a week ago,” he points out, though it is also a gentle reminder that Zimmerman’s fear might be a tad misplaced. He continues, skeptically. “How was he running?” Zimmerman describes it and the officer says, “Sounds like he was running to get away… you jumped out of car to see which way he was running? That’s not fear … it’s going to be a problem.”

    Then Zimmerman whispers something. “What is that you whispered?” the officer asks. “Fucking what?”
    “Punks,” Zimmerman says.

    An address? This may be the moment that will convict him.

    MORE HERE> (if you can stomach it)


    • dianetrotter says:

      This is where I saw the GZ was looking for the address that Trayvon was going to. He wanted to see where the coon was staying.

      • kllypyn says:

        From Rachel’s testimony it seems to me Trayvon was trying to keep him from finding out where he was staying. Chad who was 14 at the time was home alone. Maybe he was trying to protect chad some how.

        • i felt that too…protecting the younger boy from crazy cracker who could be a rapist

        • ay2z says:

          Yes, he could lead a perv right into the house.

          Has anyone connected the main NEN in August, event to what was in the forefront of fogen’s mind that February 26th night?

          That is not only where the state has begun it’s collection of NEN calls, but this first call cited in evidence, is critical because fogen himself ‘writes’ about that very call in his written statement. He goes into detail about his wife seeing the ‘robbers’, elaborates on the story of ‘attack attempt on a mother alone with a child, attempted ‘attack on the mother and on the child in his statement to police. YET, in the NEN call, the person is only referred to as a ‘burglary attempt’ by both GZ and SZ in the information of that call. Nothing about an ‘attack’ on mother, ‘attack’ on a child, then seeing the same person.

          Jad tjos ‘attack’ story been true, then that call from GZ should have been a 911 call, not NEN. And SZ should have got on the phone as she was the witness to best describe what she saw.

          Something is fishy here, in the exaggeration of the written statement events.

          The state will use this and tie it directly to fogen’s mindset and thoughts that night of the killing.

          Fogen went to great lengths to detail his reasons behind the suspicions, and the role his wife played in all this, from motive to ‘protect her’ from becoming scared, to motive to do what he continually said about police actions, true or not, he decided to believe ‘they always get away.”

      • MichelleO says:

        I learned as a young girl not to lead your would-be-attacker to your address. It helped me when as a younger woman, I was being stalked by four men in a vehicle. Although I was quite near home; I ditched into a nearby fire department. The young men in that car hit the gas and drove off.

  100. Dennis says:

    With all due respect, Rachel Jenteal changed her testimony. She originally said that the response to the question of being followed was, “What are you talking about?” This actually squares with the defendant’s account.

    Since she did change her story it may be the case that she lied and a motive is not hard to fathom: Perhaps she wanted to help her friend, the family or law enforcement to name just a few.

    As to Don West, I find him irritating and lacking social awareness. (That he could tell a joke in opening is beyond me.) But to call him a racist, based on his cross, seems inaccurate and unfair.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Dennis — Rachel stood firm and stuck by her story, despite West’s failed effort to confuse and convolute by dragging in assorted transcripts, etc.

      So you don’t think Don-boy is a racist based on his cross? How about considering, then, the way he licks his white swirly cone? Does subliminal communication mean anything to you?

    • No, the defendant told Singleton that he asked Trayvon why he was in the neighborhood.