Welcome to liveblogging day 4 Zimmerman trial

Thursday, June 27, 2013
Good morning:

First up during today’s session will be Don West’s continuation of his cross examination of Rachel Jenteal.

For a description of what happened yesterday, please go here.

Court will resume at 9 am EDT

Here’s the link to the livestream coverage.


2,394 Responses to Welcome to liveblogging day 4 Zimmerman trial

  1. Dee says:

    I notice the majority of white people will take up for their race, if it is against a black. I guess that why there are more blacks in jail. Even if their in a professional field they will curve their word to help their own.

  2. Dee says:

    I cant believe they are not putting the theory of self inflicted wounds that could have been from hitting himself with the butt of his own gun.

  3. Dee says:

    He must have not hit himself over the head with his gun hard enough over the head, probably couldn’t take the pain.

  4. Patrice says:

    Thanks for sharing your info. I truly appreciate your efforts and I will be waiting
    for your further write ups thank you once again.

  5. crazy1946 says:

    PSST: There is a new (today’s) post up! 🙂

  6. boyd says:

    a capture shot of Jenna’s twitter account before she deleted it.

    • Malisha says:

      Oh ick ick ICK! Junior looks to be in good company on her twit account.

      I had a friend who was in the fringe element of the Miami-Dade Lesbian separatists, back in the 90s, and she used to contemptuously refer to people who gave the sort of Jenna Lauer impression as “a member of the Menage a Twat.” This twitter page just made me think of that and fall down laughing.

      Quick, smelling salts!

  7. boyd says:

    this woman Jenna Lauer lied on the stand about her twitter account
    she has since deleted it.


  8. LLMPapa says:

    Can’t help but wonder which bush our lil social media butterfly, Mz Lauer, felt was blocking poor George from seeing her house number?

    • KA says:

      That is just hysterical. A front picture would be helpful if GZ decides to testify.

    • TheUsualSuspects says:

      You are hilarious.

    • MedicineBear says:

      From some angles, bushes or big floppy knuckle bandages may block her house number from view.

    • crazy1946 says:

      LLMPapa, here is one more little piece of trivia for you to consider, the president of the HOA stated that the Fogdoit (CAAPC) was working with him on parking issues, correct? If that were true, then why would he not had contact with Jermey who was parked illegally? Please note the distance he was from the cross walk, and the parking on a curve, tell me that the Fogdoit would not have been on that like a fly on dog poop! Me thinks a certain witness was lying thru her teeth when she said she had no real contact with the Fogdoit. There has got to be a paper trail somewhere within the HOA!

      • MedicineBear says:

        Can’t wait to hear what CAAPC is!

      • MedicineBear says:

        Oh! AP=AfroPeruvian? LMAO!

        Can you guess this one: CAAPCPOS?

      • crazy1946 says:

        MedicineBear, Yes, I know exactly what you are calling him, but remember the “S” is actually useful for fertilize, where as the Fogdoit will not even be good for that, when he dies and turns back into dust, he will turn the ground around him sterile and it cause all plants nearby to waste and wither away….

    • Malisha says:

      HAHAHA HA HA and she’s a realtor? I can hear it:

      “This house is quite lovely and really, although that bush obscures it, the house DOES have a door so you CAN get in.”

  9. Nef05 says:

    I know I’m getting ahead of things here, but I was just pondering. BDLR is a saber toothed tiger on cross examination, stalking, tracking, then going straight for the jugular. I think it’s a great strength of his. Remember his first cross of West and his cross of the State’s IT guy who leaked the texts/pics?

    So… I started considering who he would cross examine during the defense’s presentation, and how he would go about it. And I thought, and thought, and thought, and thought – does the prosecution have a witness to ANY of the facts – other than the often recanted W6?

    I’d love to see Joonyah, Sr and Taaffe all destroyed by cross examination, but not one of them was there that night. Does the prosecution have anyone that was there, and supports fogen’s story? Even (gaga for fogen) Dorival and Jenna Lauer were called by the prosecution.

  10. breelee says:

    Hi all. I lost my faith after today and took a break for the evening. Thanks to ya’ll who made me laugh with the funny posts. : ) I’ll probably sound stupid asking this, but are the “confessions” and reenactment CAC made going to be shown for SURE to the jury? Are they protected in some way?

    Also, if anyone can nudge Bernie to please explain that nigga is what Rachel said, not with the ER as he pronounced it. I really think the jurors need to know this. I’d pay for them see child killers My Space nic.

    And was it here I read that there was blood on someone’s garage door close to the shooting? If so, I really wondered about that when the female officer was telling where all she found blood, and she didn’t mention it.

    I want to thank all of you for getting my spirits up a bit, but I still have a doom feeling. Hearing Mutt & Jeff put words in the witnesses mouths is pizzing me off to no end. I feel guilty though for stressing and getting depressed when I think of Tracy, Sabrina and all of Trayvon’s loved ones. They show strength I didn’t know existed. I cant even bear to look into their eyes. I see such guilt in Tracy’s, and he has absolutely NO reason to feel that way. We cant live in a bubble or in chains.

    Oh one more thing. By Bernie making a point of Brandy’s son wearing headphones, please don’t tell me Trayvon TRIED to get in the house and couldn’t…

  11. KA says:

    Can I add this little thought…some media reporters just suck as people!

    (that is all)

  12. KA says:

    Daryl Parks made a great point in this video over the “Trayvon was a racist” comments that are nonstop by the media.

    He said “you notice that he called the SAME PERSON a “Cracker” and a “Niggah”….so how could GZ’s race be a factor in his words?”


    • breelee says:

      Ohhh KA, I like that! That makes sense for sure. Thanks for sharing that.

    • Malisha says:

      Oh Fogen’s race was a factor in what Trayvon said; it made Fogen all the more dangerous because obviously, the crazy ass guy chasing in a SUV being white meant to Trayvon that this could easily be a hate crime developing.

  13. Jun says:

    What i dont get is why Selma was not allowed to testify that it sounded like a young boy screaming, like she did in interrogation.

    Guy asked and it got objected

    I dont get why she is not allowed to answer that

  14. KA says:

    I like Daryl Parks. This is a good press conference about Rachel and proceedings so far!

  15. If you just got your butt beat, wouldn’t the first thing you do is ask for medical aid? Why checking to see if the guy you just shot had a weapon is the first thing you do?

  16. Big Willie says:

    If a witneess can be impeached for lying, shouldn’t a defendent be found guilty for a multitude of lies?

    • Malisha says:

      He’s not charged with lying but he will be found guilty for murder and his lies won’t save him.

    • ic2fools says:

      @Big Willie

      It took 19 year old Rachael to point out to seasoned legal eagles Defense ‘Creative Errors’. The Court took notice and will continue to do so. I see when State re-cross and objections are now showing those are intentional mistatements whether written or verbal made by the Defense, and hope the jury is on to the sneakiness of the Defense.

      I loved it when Rachael told CAWest that is wrong ‘Sir’, Everyone got up and got busy. She asked to see what West was reading from, busted his azz right there on the spot. See how reluctent he was, tried to move on without letting her see the transcript. really thought JN overlooked that fact, But JN didn’t and made him give Rachael one. JN check out her copy too. HA got his sneaky azz.

      Like with Lauer, ‘her address is blocked by a tree’. A summer photo of a tree in full bloom opposed to a tree dormant in winter. Sneaky sneaky!

  17. colin black says:


    An as the y say out off the mouths of innocents comes only TRUTH.

    Q…..West accuseingly …You had been the last person to speak to Trayvon whom you said was your friend .

    He had been allegedly murdered an yet you the last person he
    Spoke to before the incident didn’t think it important?


    wEST your the last person to…

    DD..I Didn’t know I was the last person he talk with. Trayvon..

    West realy?

    DD ,,Yes they had got the guy he arrested,
    An Trayvon he right by his home when I talkin his Father goonna be right there an theres lots of people be at there

    WEST ..An why you think you had no part in talking txt on the night Trayvon lost his life?

    You watched 48 hrs ?

    West…… 48 ..hrs?

    dd the first 48.

    The pohlease first thing they be doing is callin or contact the last person the victim talk to.
    They didn’t contact me so I figured I wasn’t no witness.

    I thought you never watched the NEWS ah ha you lieing little concocter of cons.

    Are you retarded did you just tell me to call the doctor on my corns?

    No your lie about never watching the news or progrmes covering current major news storys .

    An as everyone on the PLANET Is aware our client is huge..

    A….The first 48 hours is not the news its a documentary about proper an efficient pohhleese proceadure

    Rachel you were Trayvons friend an he heard only your voice with love before the hate filled barks from foggagge an you were sweet on Trayvon

    Because under the bravado of street slang an calling a nigger wich wos fn brilliant if true.

    Defence runs a mile from KHOON.

    The prosecution walkin just walkin still just walkin sright into rapeist niggah.

    Still no homies though unless thet all be at

    THE H O A ….. HOMMIES OFICIALL ASSAULT meeting on weapons an tactics.

    Ditch the choppers an copkiller gun homes

    An dig a ditch each side of the walkway dude an go to work with that leathal sidewalk.

    Back to my special GaLL Rachel an Trayvon this is a song dedicated to you from me from proxy of her an your Parents you were so SPECIAL TRAY an that freak creepy cracker nigger asssed dude to Tray away.

    An your Mother an Father made you from an raised you with love,

    An a heartless piece of empty real state left you out in the rain.

    Hence they will never see you again.



    • dianetrotter says:

      FUN-KNEE!!! You and Malisha!

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      In black youth culture, black kids don’t expect anything but harassment from the police, so why would they even think of calling them if they don’t have absolute proof of their claims?

      Why have them around when you could be shot for reaching for a wallet gun? A candy bar gun? A handkerchief gun? An umbrella gun? Amadu Diallo, Dorismond, Rodney King? Does West think blacks learn nothing at all from these high profile cases? Central Park Five anyone? The kids arrested for the brutal beating and rape of a white girl were held, questioned and tricked or forced to plead guilty, then they solved the case from behind bars! What???!!!???

      Police come into black neighborhoods all the time, do they think that their performances go unnoticed by the black community? Who needs to invite the disrespect, the demonizing and trouble the police visit on blacks? Then they wonder why blacks just “grin and bear it” in most cases when they’re the victims or witnesses of crimes?

      For most blacks, who are innocent of anything like Trayvon and DD, the police performance is known and detested. Thus, they know to avoid the police like the plague, not because they’re guilty, but because they know of how the police have treated their neighbors and friends.

      Sometimes police performance gets so bad that even whites won’t call the police! I know this because I’ve lived in white neighborhood and I’ve been privvy to their aversions to police. Many a campaign had to be mounted over the years to encourage white youths to learn to turn the the police for help. None of those campaigns I’ve heard of were directed at black communities. They don’t go to the schools and tell black kids to call the police for help. But they do show up in the neighborhoods at crime scenes, and for stop and frisks and put on terribly off putting performances. These accounts make it into neighborhood lore and get retold ad nausea-um, so then, what are black youths to think?

      West needs some cultural education, because to most blacks and plenty of whites he sound absolutely stupid asking DD why she didn’t call the police. Even Trayvon never thought to call the police when he feared some crazy dude was following him for no reason, even though he had a clue the guy could be dangerous.

      West is asking why a girl over a hundred miles away, didn’t call the police. Obviously West is dumber than a box of rocks!

  18. Woow! says:

    Can the professor or any other lawyer or law student answer the following for this curious mind:

    1. Is it a violation of the rules of ethics for an attorney to give interviews or have news conferences during an on going trial?
    2. What are the repercussions for violating the rules of ethics in FL?
    3. The world has been watching this trial and have seen both MOM and W stank attitude toward JN, certain witnesses, and the prosecution. Do you think there will be any backlash in the legal community?
    4. Can the bar take action on their own against MOM and W for some of the dirty tactics they have used that are racist or boarder line racist.
    5. Do you think JN will write to the bar after the trial is over?

    • Rachael says:

      As was said on a radio show I listen to, how come MO’M rushes out of court at the end of the day and is on TV all night and West is the one questioning everyone? They were HORRIFIED at the way he treated Rachel.

    • TheUsualSuspects says:

      1. Violation of ethics rules? Simple answer, no. Lawyer answer, depends.

      2. Not sure about ethics rules in FL, but generally there is a hearing with the State Bar ethics committee. A lawyer doesn’t automatically lose his license unless there is some egregious act like committing a felony or embezzling client funds. Usually, the attorney is subject to discipline that may include retaking the state’s ethics exam or something like that.

      3. When viewed one way, the defense’s courtroom demeanor is “stank attitude.” From a different perspective, it’s zealous representation. Most lawyers are taught to be respectful of each other (no yelling at each other in open court); the courtroom (no chewing tobacco); the judge (don’t “no, no, no” the person in the black robe); and the rule of law (no, the court cannot play favorites and “relax” the rules of evidence). Unfortunately, one cannot control personality flaws. The defense’s courtroom displays are an embarrassment to the profession. (I recommend sitting in on a trial some time. They’re public. You’ll see that the proceedings are adversarial, but the lawyers are relatively cordial to one another.)

      4. No, the FL State Bar cannot take action against MO’M or W for holding racist views or appearing to hold racist views. It’s not a crime. Besides, there are many bigots who do not know they are bigots. They believe what they believe, even if it is out of step with the mainstream…and reality.

      5. No, I do not think JN will write to the FL State Bar when the trial is over because, to date, I don’t think MO’M or W has done anything that would prompt an ethics investigation. IIRC, JN told both sides during the discovery violations hearing that there would be no gag order because the FL Rules of Professional Conduct govern the attorneys’ behavior. So, I don’t see her getting involved in reporting misconduct unless the defense is caught red-handed doing something like knowingly submitting false evidence (e.g., photoshopped picture of a broken, bloody nose) or suborning perjury.

      Although we may not like these defense attorneys or their tactics, they are pulling out all the stops to get GZ (or, as you prefer to call him, CAC) off the hook. Sadly for the defendant, he is getting what he paid for (or didn’t pay for since he hired these clowns using other people’s money).

      • Katy says:

        Woow … I just remembered this … my aunt received a letter supposedly from a lawyer, telling her to stop saying certain things or he would sue her for a million dollars. She was frightened silly and asked me about it. I did a bit of research and found out the “lawyer” was really a pest inspector, but he claimed to be a lawyer on the letter. So, I wrote to the Bar Association in the relevant state here, and made a complaint. We didn’t get to hear much about what happened, but the abject apology from Mr Cockroach arrived very few days after I wrote my letter.

        So, I’m just wondering if some of the posters here could contact the Florida Bar Association and make some complaints.

  19. Two sides to a story says:

    Payday! Donating! Wish it was bigger, Prof. Thank you (and Crane) for your commitment to the greater good.

  20. mom says fogen WON’T take the stand as per a story on yahoo news…..

    ” Could the mounting evidence push the defense to put Zimmerman on the stand? That answer remains no, according to attorney Mark O’Mara.

    “Nothing has happened that has impacted that decision,” O’Mara told reporters after Thursday’s proceedings. The state of Florida’s self-defense laws are very strong, and make the prosecution’s job quite difficult even with the collection of testimony unraveled this week. “If I think they’ve gotten close,” O’Mara said, “I might put on a case (for Zimmerman taking the stand). We’re a long way off from that.””


    • cielo62 says:

      MMP~ And WHEN has MOM ever told the truth?? “We will definitely have a SYG Hearing!” Remember that? OH yeah! gz will be on the stand!


      • OK…the state can’t call fogen correct?…….So the defense calls him then they would have first go at him……then the state would get to cross?

        If so I want John Guy to do the cross….more fogens age (and successful)….Also the one that busted fogens balls in the first words of the opening…..You KNOW fogen will have that in his mind…..

        • cielo62 says:

          MMP~ agree! gz probably already hates all of them with a boiling hatred. All kidding aside, I just don’t see that the defense has really made any kind of picture for self defense for cac. Everything they have has NOT pointed to any reasonable person believing he feared for his life. He will HAVE to explain WHY Trayvon was suspicious and HOW Trayvon harmed him in a way that would allow cac to use deadly force. So far, none of that has been presented.


          • fogen has a breakdown under cross getting caught in all his lies …..and has to go to the psych ward….trial delayed……..possible ?

          • cielo62 says:

            MMP~ that would be funny! Tazer gz to the ground, he’s screaming bloody murder, get hauled away trussed up like a christmas goose… FINE theatre! Not likely but HEY! Anything can happen!


          • Can a defendant be excused for an illness during trial?……

            I mean if a defendants appendix burst during trial I’m sure they would let them receive medical attention….and the trial delayed…Seems logical & humane…

            Would the same apply to psych issues?…

            It would be a good ploy….even if fogen were faking it…..delay the trial until he’s psychologically ready to take the stand again……

            I’m sure he’d rather be in a psych ward than have an introduction to Ramrod Johnson …..

            Maybe this is a question the prof could better help us understand?

      • Nef05 says:


        Not the Prof, of course. But, until he gets time to pop in and respond, I’ll take a shot.

        Yes, they would have to. There would be legal issues outside of his absence from court. They’d have to find out if it impacted his ability to assist in his own defense. You can bet your bottom dollar, if fogen suddenly had some type of breakdown, O’Mara would instantly claim that he intended to put fogen on the stand in his own defense and it was absolutely essential to his case. Even if O’Mara didn’t go that far, he would posit that Zimmerman was not in his right mind to make informed decisions, with his counsel. By definition, his ability to do so would be in question, at the very least.

        Conversely, the prosecution would instantly request a court ordered evaluation to document that his breakdown was genuine, for the reasons you stated. Either way, there would be a continuance.

        I’m sure it’s more nuanced and complicated than that, but that’s kind of a (very) broad outline.

    • Woow! says:

      MOM is delusional if he think that CAC will not need to take the stand. The state has a very strong case so far and only a few witnesses have testified.

    • riisey007 says:

      So this fat piece of crap doesn’t need to take the stand to explain his self defense plea?!! How does that work!! There will be a lot of eye rolling about that. People want to hear his story from him, and it is only right that he testifies. I am sure MOM is scared of him being cross examined because they know prosecution will be hitting him with all of the right questions and he will have to answer them. O’mara knows that he has to keep Zimmerman doped up to a certain extent to even keep him patient in the court room and alert, his constant eye blinking is aggravating and a tell tale sign of underlying issues. I believe Zimmerman has sprung up in size because he is not able to abuse all of those uppers which kept his heart rate up, burned metabolism and kept his appetite limited. The Sanford police department should be ashamed of themselves not taking his blood work that night, I really do understand why he didn’t want to go to the hospital. He knew the radiologist that would read his x rays of his head and nose has been trained at looking at bone and can tell you exactly how life threatening and almost how they came to be, instead Zimmerman went to a physician assistant and only for a note to return to work, huh?? how do you go to work the next day or couple of days after killing someone? all of this is just remarkable to me. He should be made to take the stand, I for one will not be satisfied unless he does.

  21. Woow! says:

    MOM press conference today he said he is not worried about CAC past background because of the FBI’s findings….. the trial is going well and he is not worried……

    There is proof that CAC is a racist and the FBI should have found that.

    MOM is stupid if he think his client is looking good.

    • Judy75201 says:

      I don’t think fogen’s FBI probe is closed yet.

      • Woow! says:

        Lying ‘A’ MOM seems to think they will find he is not a racist. All they have to do is look at that daddy.

        I think a lot of things will be covered up as a poster responded to me above. To many people will get exposed and a lot of things will remain in the dark.

        We will never truly know the whole truth.

  22. bettykath says:

    About Jenna. I think BDLR was onto her. There is more than one way to deal with the supercilious, sometimes spelled super-silly-ass.He had her identifying just about everything on his maps. The useful info was the number of her house. So what if it can’t be seen by a particular spot, it’s a heck of lot closer than where fogen claims to have gone. How many times did he have her identify her porch and the front of her house and the location from how many aerial views? As I said before, she’s someone who always has to be in charge. Bernie let her know that she was not in charge in the court room.

    • dianetrotter says:

      With all the brainpower at the prosecution table, they should have all bases covered. I do wish NG could help.

    • MedicineBear says:

      PLUS, why did CAC (in the walk-thru video) go TO A DIFFERENT STREET to get an address for where his truck was parked?!? Was CAC looking for a TTL street sign over on RVC?

  23. Yorazigo says:

    Does anyone know where today’s testimony videos may be posted?

  24. Here you have a creepy sob following a kid & frightening him to the point of running & folks act as if Trayvon Martin had no right to stand his ground. What kind of madness is this?

    • ladystclaire says:

      It’s Jim Crow madness, plain and simple and, it’s not only happening in the south either. it’s just mind boggling that some can support this worthless waste of brain cells. they know he’s guilty but, Trayvon’s skin color is why they support his ass.

      BTW, we haven’t heard a peep from the air marshal in quite sometime now. IMO there is something strange with that. also, those two photo shopped photos, do you guys think the state will have them proven to be photo shopped?

    • groans says:

      I don’t get it, either.

      WHAT? … Only the killer/survivor can be considered to have been standing his ground? AS IF someone could never be recognized as having stood his ground for the simple reason that he ended up dead? That is just too bizarre for any rational mind to adopt.

      • groans says:

        Sounds like a law with an inherently faulty assumed premise, to me.

      • No Shit………..Trayvon had no right to stand his ground after being pursued?…….Fogen HAD to kill him….in his mind, if he knew he had the wrong kid……He could NOT take the chance for going down on an assault….unlawful detention…..kidnapping…whatever

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Not to mention that gz had already broken the law when his actions cause the kid to become concerned for his own safety.

  25. bettykath says:

    re: phone record guy. Did you notice how the prosecutor got in so many digs about T-mobile rounding up? A 1 second call gets billed as 1 minute.

    • groans says:

      Was that a “dig” – or just clarification?

      • vickie s. votaw says:

        Was that a “dig” – or just clarification?
        He did it 3 or 4 times, what I loved was Mantei’s last statements, records destroyed in 6 mo. , defense didn’t know that. T Mobile guy had shit eating grin on his face when he told Mom that. Phone guy for State! Yep! Can’t wait til all the phone info comes out, I thought this is States way to scare the shit out of cac’s team!

  26. Tee says:

    It’s funny how GZ sees a black male smoking a cigarette by Taffee’s home, became he saw a guy looking in Taffee’s window then became, trying to break into Taffee’s home. Smh!

    • Malisha says:

      But the pBa-lack male who was smoking there was doing it for the express purpose of tricking Fogen into thinking that HE owned Taaffe’s house. Remember?

      We call that “self-referential.” Everybody does things so that they carry a message to Fogen. Fogen is the center of the universe.

      • Nef05 says:

        Yep! Like the guy who spit the gum out of his window, only to become a victim of fogen’s road rage, ’cause you know the guy was spitting AT HIM.

        I want someone to do a clinical assessment and a case study on him. I’d bet my retirement fund he’s a narcissistic personality disorder. Or, perhaps better described in the ICD-10:

        Dissocial personality disorder
        Personality disorder characterized by disregard for social obligations, and callous unconcern for the feelings of others. There is gross disparity between behaviour and the prevailing social norms. Behaviour is not readily modifiable by adverse experience, including punishment. There is a low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence; there is a tendency to blame others, or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behaviour bringing the patient into conflict with society.

        Personality (disorder):


  27. nocamo33 says:

    I just read something on HUFFPO that West said in anger to DD that did something I know he didn’t mean to do. In hindsight I am sure he is hoping the jury ignores or forgets about. He practically agreed with DD on a part of her testimony that is critical. I won’t go into detail because my spidey sense tells me, the defense (interns or actual attys or family members) are likely checking sites like these to see if they are winning or what are the obstacles they need to overcome or attempt to discredit in order to convince a reasonably intelligent person there is reasonable doubt.

    • Judy75201 says:

      Spidey is a term used frequently at the conservative treehouse. Camouflage? LOL. Conspiracy theories abound, and if you reveal your knowledge…

    • I say spidey sense a lot too. Never been to the outhouse. But it seems you’re suggesting that nocamo33 needs to go on a troll suspect list.

      • cielo62 says:

        Leroy~ Ever since the Spiderman movies came out, ALOT of people use that expression. Not really troll indicator material.


        • nocamo33 says:

          Umm, I am not a troll. That hurt. Please take it back.

          • nocamo33 says:

            Directed at LEH. I am not pleased at all at being characterized as such. If prudence didn’t prevent me, I’d tell you what nocamo meant. Enough of this nonsense already.

          • cielo62 says:

            Nocamo- now you GOTTA explain it! I thought it meant you don’t own camo (no camouflage)

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • nocamo33 says:

            Nope. It literally is my name. That’s as deep as I will go for now! 🙂

          • cielo62 says:

            Nocamo- you misread my post! I said that its a common phrase especially since the movie came out. I in NO WAY meant to imply you are a troll. I am very sorry if you read it that way. I didn’t mean it as you took it. I’m sorry for the confusion and doubly sorry I hurt your feelings. Personally I don’t much like spiders so I never get Spidey senses.

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • nocamo33 says:

            No. My comment was not directed at you at all. I saw that you stepped in to clarify. I didn’t at all think you did either. My apologies if I wasn’t clear.

      • nocamo33 says:

        Which I am not. Thankyouverymuch.

    • As far as Huffpo is concerned, I can’t go there till they fix the moderation. My God, I cannot see how such vile posts about the victim and witnesses can get by the moderators but posts with actual facts that don’t favor the defendant never make it.

      • Judy75201 says:

        If “splodyhead” comes next, I’ll know for sure LOL. I do think HuffPo employs “professional” trolls (amazin!), and that the post was to divert traffic there.

        • nocamo33 says:

          No. Please don’t read that into my comments. Any chance a persons words can be taken on face value? This is getting pretty much out of hand in my opinion. Before you take someone’s name and drag it in the mud, be cautious that you don’t inadvertently make a mistake. Is there no way for you to see my previous posts? Go to Disqus and see my previous posts. Maybe someone on this blog pays an inkling of attention. Please don’t drag my name in the dirt. Not after the countless hours I have put in to silence those that refuse to see the facts of this case and make sure that justice is done. You are both wrong. Now quit it.

      • nocamo33 says:

        Whoa, I thought I was the only one that noticed that!

        • nocamo33 says:

          Nocamo says in response to LEH comment regarding HUFFPO allowing racist banter but blocking reasonable arguments around the facts/evidence of the case.

    • cielo62 says:

      nocamo~ “Give them nothing, but take away from them EVERYTHING!”


  28. Liberal Lore ‏@Britpoptarts 10m

    MT @tiffpats4eva: Jeantel may not be able to read cursive, but she isn’t as dumb as Jenna Lauer deleting her trial-relevant Twitter account.

    • Woow! says:

      It was really stupid for her to delete her account after leaving the court room. It was also really stupid for her to get so defensive with BDLR and make the statement that she did.

      Guilty people always tell on themselves.

      Let us see if her husband will try to pull the same stunt tomorrow. I he comes with the MMA %$it I hope the prosecution shuts him down.

    • Two sides to a story says:


    • ladystclaire says:

      @Joseph Norton, hello Joseph hope all is well with you. I’m so hoping that the DOJ will be charging this SOB with a hate crime. all of these people who are worshiping the devil Fogen, they know darn well that he is guilty as sin. hopefully the jury will pay more attention to the evidence and, find him guilty as charged.

      I wonder if maybe Judge Nelson, will have both Pest and O’dirty brought up on some kind of charges.

      • Ms.X says:

        Forget about it. She won’t. She isn’t activistic & definitely won’t upset the apple cart. Plus omara may be more powerful than her. He is the long time president of a prestigious law organization. He might play golf with criminal fl. gov, rick scott. He surely knows people in high places.

      • Woow! says:

        “will have both Pest and O’dirty brought up on some kind of charges.”

        That’s the same question I have been asking. I hope some lawyer(s) or citizen(s) have complained to the bar. Is there a way to find out? Curious mind want to know.

      • ladystclaire Thank You,Everything is well what about you?
        Indeed I hope too the DOJ charge the child killer with hate crime,the rest depends in the State Attorney Corey

      • Ms.X , the republican chief in Florida went down,in politic power is a relative and not for a long term.

        • ic2fools says:

          @Joseph Norton, Welcome!!!

          Haven’t seen you since I left the other site, good to see you again my friend..

  29. disappointed says:

    I think Rachel did well today! She spanked West. She called him out if it did not make sense (that’s retarded Sir). There is nothing wrong with telling it like it is. Note to myself: if I ever meet Rachel do not ask if my butt looks big in these jeans, LOL.

    Do any of you know if prior bad acts can now come in? If so will the Prosecution wait for rebuttal? That was a big oops by MOM.

  30. Woow! says:

    I wonder if Jenna

    1. donated to the CAC fund
    2. Posts on the treehouse
    3. spoke with MOM at anytime before her testimony
    4. did MOM know prior to her taking the stand she was a CAC supporter
    5. has private conversation and FB or Twitter that the prosecutor knows about.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Her deposition would have been taken by MOM.

      • Woow! says:

        That means nothing…what I am alluding to is whether she talked to MOM other than at the depo and colluded with him regarding her slanted testimony.

        There is no way her home was a close to where TM was killed and she did not hear what was said clearer than the first two witnesses.

    • cielo62 says:

      Woow!~ ALL very good questions! I’ve always felt there was some type of “cahoots” going on with her and gz, and now his entire toxic posse.


  31. bettykath says:

    Apparently Rachel did some tweets that aren’t helpful. I think West was trying to get to a point where the tweets could be entered. That’s probably the probative evidence that he want to present and then have her back so he can show some sort of conspiracy. Let’s hope she stays off twitter for the next few days.

    • Tee says:

      The tweets were not bad just child like ie. my court nails with a picture of he nails, CNN & HNL killn me bro, she wouldn’t be there if the person who did this didn’t kill Trayvon. Nothing much she did this before she got in the city.

    • Judy75201 says:

      They nevertheless, any tweets she may have sent have nothing to do with the murder.

    • crazy1946 says:

      I think if the MOM/West team want to open her tweet’s and text’s up for public viewing then let’s do the same for the Fogdoit and his mommy, daddy, sissy and bubba! Actually perhaps we should also include those tweets of MOM’s and West? That would probably be some very interesting reading…..

    • cielo62 says:

      bettykath~ “probative” how? SHE can say that gz acted in self defense? I think they just want to keep torturing that poor young woman.


  32. smokeegyrl says:

    Taafee needs to go somewhere

  33. Woow! says:

    If the prosecution team finds out Taaffe or someone else called CAC to alert him about TMl can they upgrade the charges because the will me murder not manslaughter.

    I think Taaffe, John, his sister, or Shelly told him about TM and I don’t think he was alone in the truck that night.

    • Judy75201 says:

      I have no opinion about whether or not he was alone in the truck, but this is not a manslaughter case; the charge is M2. However, I’ve always thought it was M1, and the feds can sort that out.

    • Trained Observer says:

      The charge against GZ (Fogen) is Murder 2, not manslaughter. .

    • bettykath says:

      there are a couple of differences between murder 1 and murder 2. murder 1 needs a grand jury indictment; murder 2 does not.

      the penalties for murder 1 are death or life w/o possibility of parole.

      the penalties for murder 2 is 25 to 30 years. in some cases the state can request a life sentence.

    • PiranhaMom says:


      The charge (Murder 2) is what it is. It will not be “upgraded.”

      “Thinking” someone else was in the truck, etc. is not an issue now. You need proof of some kind (phone logs would be best – they have not yet been released). If they have proof and it fits the prosecution strategy, you will see it.

      The prosecution team is experienced and clearly has a plan.

      Watch how it unfolds.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        The prosecutions strategy seems to be, to let the defense keep digging itself into holes, they’ll be scrambling to climb out of, when the real stuff hits the fan.

        Omar dug himself into a fairly deep hole with the physicians assistant helping him along. My, my, all those credible and terrible evidences of horrible injuries gz had suffered that night. All possible indicators that he had undergone some type of terrible beating, just has he had related to her… Yet, she noted NOT ONE OF THEM AT ALL!!! All she could find to note in her records was two minor lacerations!

        After all that work Omar had done, poof, gone in an instant when Bernie took her down!

        • jm says:

          Medical provider says those injuries were not noted. Why not is the question Bernie should have asked. Did she fail to note the injuries or were they nonexistent when she saw GZ?

    • riisey007 says:

      I too believe that Taafe was involved, I have listened to him and he has more to do with the crime than being a friend of Zimmerman’s. He did a reenactment not too long after the killing and he describes where Zimmerman was and how it all went down but he sure does know a lot to later say that he had not talked with Zimmerman??!! how confusing ?!! I guess they have twin powers. I believe Martin made it home only to be chased back up the path by Zimmerman or Taafe. Frank Taafe says it was ” A perfect storm” hummm what does that mean?!!

  34. Katy says:

    I’ve been following this case since the beginning. Here are some of the things that I hope are clarified in the trial. There are also some ramblings by me.

    It was a crime that need never/should never have happened. I can’t help but believe that it was planned … not with T as the victim, but with anyone who met Z’s idea of a “a hole”.

    Did he know from the beginning that the only hope his client had was influencing the jury pool?

    The use of social media to raise funds for GZ and to publicize the case and to try and prove GZ’s “innocence”.

    The absolute arrogance of GZ … and his total misunderstanding of what he should have done or not done.

    The polarization of supporters of Trayvon and GZ – why has this case attracted such vehement feelings on both sides.

    Trajectory of bullet and the accuracy of the lethal shot.

    The lack of DNA connecting the two men.

    The lack of injuries on Trayvon’s hands (except a tiny abrasion).

    The minor injuries to GZ. Talking of which, you can scratch the inside of your nose with a finger nail and have some pretty nasty bleeding.

    The witnesses are also polarized, it seems, and contradicting themselves.

    The words said by Trayvon when they met “Why are you following me?” In the present tense – “are” not “were”.

    The partial sentence spoken by GZ about Shellie when he was in the car.

    The fact that GZ went shopping with two flashlights.

    The blood on the garage frame.

    The vanishing photos from the gzlegalcase website (from 25 to 14 at last count).

    The photo from the gzlegalcase website with the sadhill watermark.

    The words and demeanor of Trayvon’s brother – he’d obviously been brought up really well.

    Why did GZ choose MOM? Apparently he’d received an offer that Jose Baez would defend him for free and he turned that down.

    Was G’s photo worked on?

    See this link http://zimmerman-vs-martin.blogspot.com.au/2012/12/the-altered-photo.html

    Maybe that’s why GZ has been piling on the weight? Now, I wouldn’t have believed that GZ’s photo had been tampered with until the other day, but perhaps MOM has been playing this game for a long time?

    There’s more, but this is already a long post.

    • Tzar says:

      why has this case attracted such vehement feelings on both sides.

      I’m crystal clear on why there are vehement feelings on Trayvon’s side
      what are you having trouble with?

      • Katy says:

        Tzar, I’m on Trayvon’s side too. Absolutely. And I could explain why in another really long post 🙂

        I really think the evidence is on T’s side … but in other discussions, other people are firmly of the view that Z is totally innocent.

        • Tzar says:

          but in other discussions, other people are firmly of the view that Z is totally innocent.

          There are groups people in these united states who opine that slavery or genocide should be legal
          you can find any opinion you want in the world, not all of them are worthy of being catered to.

        • cielo62 says:

          Katy~ I believe it has everything to do with not wanting or permitting anyone to believe that a black male could possibly be an innocent victim. IMOO, I do think that Obama’s election, not just once but twice, has the status quo in an uproar. They are losing power and influence. People who used to bow and work for them are NOW believing they are EQUALS! How dare they! The most fearful ones are the ones who think they have something to lose.This case is another stumbling step towards a just society. As Franz Fanons said (political philosopher) no entity ever gives up power. There will always be a struggle to take, keep or equalize power. And that is where we are today. CAC thought it was 50 years ago where he WOULD have gotten away with this murder. But now 50 years later, the winds have shifted. And many in positions of power or privilege fear losing those.


      • Judy75201 says:


      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I agree with you, Tzar and Cielo.

        They do not like to consider that they may not have a chair when the their music stops.

    • Katy says:

      Well, I’m in Australia … but we certainly have racism here, too.

    • dianetrotter says:

      Geez Katy! You have a whole lot of points there. Where were you following?

      • Katy says:

        Cielo, I started my “career” as an activist, campaigning against apartheid when I was 16 and I’m now in my 50s. I agree with you … Here, in Australia, there were many gains for Indigenous people, but things seem to be going backwards at the moment. It’s kind of one step forward two steps back. But, I do have faith in the young people.

        I was in the US when Obama and Clinton were going for the Democratic nomination … it was just awesome to see the way people were so enthusiastically campaigning for Obama. We just lost our first female Prime Minister, but there was nothing like the support for Obama in her campaign.

        Diane, I’ve been all over … I was lurking for a long time here, and then first posted a while ago. I checked out lots of websites and followed links. I looked at the “official” GZ sites (freaking scary) … and I was just so shocked and appalled at the use of the non-Trayvon photos there that I posted here for the first time.

        Looking back at my list, I was trying to keep it relatively short, so if you want any links or added information, please ask.

    • ZCBest says:

      I really wish they could get the phone of the guy who took the “allegedly authentic bloody” phone of Fogen. My gut tells me it is an iphone and that perhaps he saved it as warped as soon as he took it on his phone. I am going to investigate my theory a bit.

      • Katy says:

        ZC, I wanted to find out more about the photo, but couldn’t get much more than the link I posted up there.

        Wishing you luck and looking forward to what you find. Let me know if I can help.

      • KittySP says:

        It was an iphone

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Once something is written to a hard drive it is never lost! Even after it is over written, erased and over written again, it can still be recovered, it’s just a matter of price. But I think the guy got rid of that phone, so it would have to be found first. Then sent to file recovery experts, they would probably charge about 1,200 dollars, but they could recover any data that was ever on the phone, all the way back to the day it left the factory.

    • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

      I too have been following the case from the beginning… What words were spoken regarding shellie in the car? Whose Garage door had blood on it? Do you have a link? You should also contact the prosecution regarding the photo alteration or other information you have with any back up you may have… Thanks!

      • Katy says:

        Trial-is … in the record of the Z call to the NEN, Z starts to say “my wife” and then says “I’d left for the grocery store” as if he was going to say “my wife and I had left for the grocery store”. That speaks to the possible relevance of Shellie being in the car with him. There was a discussion on this site about this.

        I’ve posted the link about the blood on the garage door.

        I’ve posted the link about the photo alteration. It looks seriously photoshopped.

        Sorry, I’m cooking dinner right now … I can post the links again later, if you like.

        I think it’s best that someone in the US sees what I’ve written and linked and checks it up and follows through with the prosecution … I can imagine them saying “here, we got this email from a Skippy in Australia … she thinks she knows what happened”.

    • PiranhaMom says:


      I expect you are fairly new here. Most of us have been studying and contributing for over a year.

      Most of us also are putting in 8-10 hour days, viewing videos plus live-stream broadcasts of the trial, then catching up on website correspondence.

      Please don’t expect anyone to sit down and write a response to all your discussion points. Nobody has the time. We’re way past most of your questions.

      To get up to speed, the work is up to YOU. At the upper right of this blogsite, you’ll see the archives of the Professor’s work – and responses by his students.

      Start in March and April of 2012.

      READ, don’t ask.

      After you’ve read it all, come back and participate.

  35. ZCBest says:

    Do we know which juror was blonde? They say that she takes copious notes.

  36. Sabrina B. says:

    There was just a ballistics person on TV that says the defense’s explanation of the stippling is the only way to get that pattern. Could it be possible that George’s print on the bottom of Trayvon’s undershirt indicates that George held Trayvon’s shirt away from him, preventing him from running, when he shot him? I am worried. Because the jury may put more weight on the forensics than the witnesses and if the prosecutor doesn’t have anything to counter this, it may set him free.

    BTW! I sincerely want to than all for allowing me to jump in. It is so heartening to be able to come somewhere where the GZ followers are not inundating the conversation with their inanity. I don’t know how you keep them away but, I really appreciate it

    • Sabrina B. says:


    • crazy1946 says:

      Sabrina B., That issue was discussed at length here on this blog in the past, and I have no doubt that the state will counter Don West’s lies about this very well when they get to that point in the trial…. Good to have you here…

      • Sabrina B. says:

        Whew, thank you. I was tearing up thinking that something like that might get this guy off.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        This LLMPapa video will be helpful in understanding how the explains how gz had to be grabbing Trayvon’s sweatshirt when he fired the shot:

    • ZCBest says:

      I totally agree with you Sabrina. Crazy1946 is right, we did discuss that at length. I am certain we will hear more about it.


      • Sabrina B. says:

        Thank you You all and ZC! I completely forgot about that part of fogen’s story. He has told so many. Thank goodness for LLMPapa.

    • Judy75201 says:

      There is no reason to ever put “more weight” on a witness than forensics. I believe fogen grabbed Trayvon’s clothing as he tried to run away. There is nothing to contradict that.

      • Sabrina B. says:

        Glad to hear that. I was simply thinking that MOM and West will confuse them so much with the contradicting witnesses, that they will rely more on the forensics.

      • Judy75201 says:

        Why are you glad to hear that? It contradicts your statement.

      • Malisha says:

        Stippling is not the piece of physical evidence that really proves Fogen’s story false. The physical evidence that proves it false consists of three parts:

        1. Bullet enters at NO angle, straight in front to back;
        2. Intermediate range entry into the chest wall; but
        3. Point-blank range (stippling) entry into the cloth of the shirt and hoodie.

        You could get that if they were both standing, if they were both kneeling or next to each other on the ground wrestling, or if Trayvon was on the ground and Fogen had him by the cloth of his shirt and hoodie, and fired into his chest from above.

      • Sabrina B. says:

        I misread your post. Forgive me.

    • Judy75201 says:

      Oh, just realized your name is “Sabrina”.

    • cielo62 says:

      Sabrina the last ballistic “expert” was soundly repudiated by LLMPapa from this site. He has a slewfull of videos on youtube. YES Trayvon’s shirts were held tightly and away from the body. THAT is what the basslistics will show. have faith. gz aint got nothin.


      • NEVER forget…”I didn’t want to shoot my hand”…….

        For one to be concerned about that would indicate that they thought their hand was close to the muzzle of the firearm……..I want to see fogen show the position he was in when he pulled the trigger….

        Damn right he was holding TRAYVON….sick POS…..the kid trying to get away and you hold him to get off a shot…..then sit on him…

        A REAL Cop tried to save the kids life….

      • Sabrina B. says:

        Thanks Cielo62. It gets so nuts out there, so much information being tossed out there that you begin to wonder if you had actually seen something that contradicts it or not. I’ve seen quite a few of LLMPapa videos and am truly happy for him taking the time to do them. Trayvon needs an army of him to counter all the mess.

      • PiranhaMom says:

        @Cielo –

        Fogen’s jacket is primarily polyester and not such a sopper-upper of water as a 100% cotton jacket would be, which is designed to be water-resistant (not waterproof). I am sure he was on the ground a portion of the time.

        If not from the sprinkler heads, he could have gotten those minor scalp wounds by running between the buildings and ducking below low, leafless tree/shrub limbs.(February 26: no leaves out.) If I were FDLE I would have photographed everything between those blocks of condos lining the dog walk in question.

        For the scalp blood pattern, the flow would have had to start late in “the process,” well after Fogen’s head ever hit the ground – if it ever did.

        I don’t see Fogen self-injuring himself because he’s such a narcissist and coward.

        Definitely believe that TRAYVON did not inflict those wounds.

        Definitely believe the under-the-nose blood & schmutz was caused by the Kel-tek kickback.

        I’m surprised the media is not making an issue of LE’s recently revealed unsuccessful search for blood on the cement and grass. They should have made Trayvon point out where his head supposedly was “smashed.” Then make a big issue a year ago that there was no such blood ever found.

    • PiranhaMom says:


      Please review this blog’s archives for Professor Leatherman’s September 26, 2012 report and you will understand the evidence of the gunshot, holes in he shirts, stippling, gunshot residue.

      All resulting from FDLE lab reports.

  37. I hope Rachel becomes a lawyer someday. The perfect revenge for all those haters. She did beautiful and I bet everyone is very proud.

    • concernedczen says:

      Love your post.

    • PiranhaMom says:

      @LeroyEuegene –

      Law School for Rachel Jentele? Absolutely!

      Man, I want that young lady’s courage, common sense and honesty on the SUPREME COURT some day!

      • KittySP says:

        She’d definitely set a couple of politicians straight as well…can you picture her testifying at a senate hearing on some ‘common sense’ issue, and her replying, “Mr. Senator, Sir!”. “Are you listening!?”…”Ugh”, “You can go(continue)”…”That sounds real retarded, sir (mr. Senator, with your privileged up bringing, Ivy League education, power, and money).
        -rkir (Rachel-keeping it real)

    • KittySP says:

      Leroy, CNN/HLN were reporting that one of her tweets mentioned she was studying criminal justice at local college, but that when they called, the school claimed having no record of her.

  38. Did you see West throw the pen when Rachel said FDLE? A seasoned defense attorney lost control b/c he couldn’t break a 19 year old girl. He tried to tire her out for 4 hours with yelling, intimidation, insults and mockery but he LOST.

  39. Malisha says:

    There are probably a hundred thousand people out there who have been spouting “FACTS” in this case almost since the BEGINNING that are not only not facts, and not only already disproven, but that make the tiny discrepancies they harped on from Rachel Jeantel seem like 3 specks of dust within three feet of Mt. Everest. Starting with Jeralyn saying Trayvon Martin was smashing Fogen’s head on the sidewalk when he was shot. It’s appalling. How can these people maintain their own reputations in the face of such blatant lies?

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      I just shake my head.

      I hope that some day the puppets will cut their strings.

    • crazy1946 says:

      Malisha, because to an anonymous name hiding behind a keyboard there is no cost of any kind for the words spoken! Many people speak just to create turmoil and confusion! Too bad we have developed a culture that feels that is acceptable!

    • Judy75201 says:

      And unfortunately, this blog is now experiencing an unusually high volume of trolls. If you read carefully, it’s not hard to spot.

  40. boyd says:

    I;m sure the Professor could use Rachel as a teaching tool.

    don’t judge a book by the cover.

    she took on a very good, highly skilled lawyer and she’s in High School for 6+hours. I was very impressed.

  41. nancy just said the kel tec 9 has an EXTERNAL safety….she also said she’s familiar with the kel tec…..Bullshit

    • boyd says:

      I don;t know shit about guns and I was in an air cav unit a long long time ago. Have not touch a gun since. the 70’s

      • Welcome home…..

        9th ID (mech) ’71 / ’73

      • boyd says:

        2nd armored cav 77-80 Nurnburg Germany Feucht airfield.

        but I spent as much time in the bars as on the airfield. we were more like sgt. Bilko. not like today. my biggest fear was the bader-meinhoff gang. lol!

      • boyd says:

        Huey mechanic

      • boyd says:

        I had it easy, I was based in downtown old nurnburg’s castle area in an old SS headquarters nicknamed the “Gangster Hotel” after the nazi’s. we were about 4 blocks from where Hitler tried to rule the world. we always tried to do something on the weekends. car shows, concerts, picnics, sightseeing, or just binge drinking

        Job was 9-5 and then we left the airfield to go home., we only had 1 morning formation and to the airfield to work. when guys would transfer over from Ft, Campbell or Bragg etc they would tell us “this is not the army”

        of course back then, you did not think it was that good.

    • ay2z says:

      The only ‘safety’ the gun has, is in it’s present condition in evidence, with the big orange loop lock through the barrel.

      NG should budget for some decent research assistants and personally check her sources.

    • Tzar says:

      I am sure the state will have a firearms expert to testify if need be

    • Dave says:

      West actually gave a clear accurate description of the gun and how it works in his Opener. It’s worth reading or listening to if you can find it. (OMG! did I really say that about something that came out of Mr. Don’s mouth?)

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I heard that too. He described the Keltec as I’ve seen it described on YouTube. Long trigger pull, no safety.

      • KittySP says:

        I have no clue about guns other than what I’ve seen on TV and seen they have the external safety…what Frank was saying to Nancy is that the the safety is integrated in the long trigger pull….again, I have no knowledge of the gun, but if I’m following what he’s saying, is that in order for the gun to fire it requires a long/firmer pull on the trigger.

      • racerrodig says:

        That turd brain also said all LEO’s say to use a gun without an external safety because “…seconds count…” when assaulted by rampaging concrete.

        Funny…..my dad was a cop, and I know / knew a lot of cops and not one agrees with that crap. Nope, seems they prefer to prevent any kind of discharge of any kind….especially when a second will count.

        So, this nullifies “(OMG! did I really say that about something that came out of Mr. Don’s mouth?)”

        • Same page Buddy….Most modern semi autos have the safety button either right in front of the trigger guard on the right side…….a simple push on the button…safety’s off and a half inch for you to get to the trigger….

          Others have a lever near the magazine release on the left that you just click down with your thumb…….

          ms grace this evening stated she was familiar with the kel tec 9….and said in fact it had an EXTERNAL safety……

          So much for me believing anymore that comes from her pie hole

        • The safety is also to prevent one from blowing a hole in their foot doing a quick draw….a simple matter of clicking the safety off while bringing the firearm to bear…..

  42. SHIT….watching HLN….fukkin nancy grace arguing with taffee that the kel trc has a safety…..she states this as fact………

  43. Malisha says:

    The only thing I find from John Phillips (a local attorney who went to Sanford to do legal commentary for the media on June 3, when the motions in limine were ruled on) is three weeks old. Where do you have it that he NOW says Fogen will testify? I did not hear that and can’t find it. BTW, before I FOIA’d the SPD to get the info. on whether it was true that there was a shooting in RTL before Fogen killed Trayvon, I contacted Phillips’ office to ask where HE had gotten that info. because he published it and I couldn’t get it confirmed. HE DID NOT ANSWER. Then I found out that the info. was materially inaccurate.

    • boyd says:

      No way, after what he saw Rachel deal with and she told the truth. Most likely it’s MOM telling tales to his buddies, he’s more interested in Media than George. My opinion..

    • Judy75201 says:

      He is active on Twitter and has been on some TV about the case. Please describe the materially inaccurate part. I don’t want to fall into a trap.

      • Malisha says:

        News reports (over 1,000) in March 2012 said RTL had “eight burglaries, nine thefts and ONE OTHER SHOOTING” in the year before 2/26/2012.


        Phillips quoted it in an article he wrote about the case.

        In fact there were seven burglaries (only three were home invasion burglaries and NONE of them armed), seven thefts and NO OTHER SHOOTING — NONE AT ALL — in that year.

        I chased the press down over and over and demanded retractions and not one person bit. Phillips would not respond to my inquiry.

  44. Nef05 says:

    Finally, Nancy Grace seems to get on board. She’s calling BS on the defense’s NEW theory that Trayvon was the “racist”.

    • Nef05 says:

      She shut Taaffe down, and he defaulted to the Feb. 2nd “Zimmerman found the guy in my yard 3 weeks before that night, blah, blah, blah…”

      • Malisha says:

        Found a guy in my yard.
        Found a pBa-lack guy in my lily-white yard.
        Found a ne’er doer well in my sacred law-abiding yard.
        Found a real suspicious guy in my all-Caucasian yard.
        Found a member of the underclasses in my white-trash yard.
        Found a … hiccup … I’m not as thunk as some dreeple dink!

      • Nef05 says:

        @Malisha – exactly. But, I’ll give them some credit. They shut him down. No what would be better would be if they’d stop having him on.

      • racerrodig says:

        That “short term vision” is really a handicap since Fogen found nobody in his yard. FogenPhoole called Taaffe that one (1) window was open and about 4 hours later when Frankie went home, reported it. Whooptee Do….

        His BS has gone from…..

        I had a window open…… to
        I could have been the victim…..to
        There were black guys casing my place….to
        He found a guy in my yard……to
        He prevented a crime…..to
        He caught them breaking into my house (Nancy Grace Tue night)

        What’s next ??

        Yep, I can see how Frankie would say “….he was mad as hell and not going to take it anymore”

        Take what dude…….being a racist, underachieving, under / unemployed, lying sack of shit loser……

  45. ay2z says:

    Here’s Lawrence O’Donnel’s The Last Word link mentioned upthread fyi.


  46. YQ says:

    I certainly hope Zmmerman does testify, and no doubt he’ll be flustered. Waay too many stories out there.

  47. Katy says:

    Z is going to testify? Awesome.

    West is cruel. Sadistic. That’s the bad news.

    The good news is that he appears to be completely incompetent.

    • racerrodig says:

      “The good news is that he appears to be completely incompetent.”

      And I’ll quote The Moron Man and say “….in fact, I think it’s undisputed…”

      • ” I Think it was because of my delivery”

        This “Dream Team” seems more of a nightmare for fogen….poor guy………Musta been “Gods plan” for him to have these idiots defending him……

  48. boyd says:

    so Mora and Rachel both heard grass sounds

  49. boyd says:

    he never mentioned getting up and pacing around to anyone. but 2 witnesses said that and both said he acted WORRIED.. MOM tried to get Mora to lie, the best he could do was say maybe, an honest response but her gut said ‘worried’.

    none of that “you got me” talk ever happened. the prosecution is closing in.

    I noticed he did not try to impeach Mora like they did Rachel or go after her in a nasty way like they did witness #1. Thus far they have been ugly to the black witnesses

    • Malisha says:

      John Phillips? Who’s he?

    • crazy1946 says:

      Maybe MOM and West are trying out for the position of lead attorney for the KKK?

    • ay2z says:

      Hell go after Mora’s roomie Mary Cutcher.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      West was pretty hard on the first witness, but she wasn’t taking it.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      boyd says

      I noticed he did not try to impeach Mora like they did Rachel or go after her in a nasty way like they did witness #1. Thus far they have been ugly to the black witnesses

      never forget that this is theater and the defense thinks they know their audience.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Basically Omar got screwed big time today. Because Jon says he came out, walked around the house to the Tee and saw gz coming towards him there. He says that’s where he took the picture. He says nothing at all about walking back south with gz to where the body was, to take more pictures. Ofc. Smith says he found gz near the body, 30 feet south of the tee.

        So now the small flashlight laying near the tee is gone as evidence of anything, because Manalo confirms that gz walked there after the shooting. Ofc Smith confirms that gz walked back south after the photo was taken. Nor was he there for the “call my wife” episode. Which gz claims happened in front of him. He claims it didn’t!

        The clock does not lie! There were 3 minutes after the gunshot, before ofc Smith arrives Manalo accounts for some of that time.

        The photo he took of Trayvon’s body looks like just a pile of clothes, the kid was so slim. If you couldn’t see his head you would not know that it wasn’t just laundry. I’ve taken a screen cap of the picture shown at trial and enhanced it Here, because it was too dark to see it at trial.

  50. Ms.X says:

    John Phillips just tweeted that fogen will testify!!!!! It is Christmas!!!

    • jm says:

      Who is John Phillips and how would he have inside knowledge of whether GZ will testify?

    • boyd says:

      not buying it. what happens if he says “I don’t recall” after they pulled that shit on Rachel? “and all that I did not follow”

      After what she went thru he should be lynched

    • cielo62 says:

      Ms. X~ LOL! NOW I can collect that hoodie from Malisha on a bet I took with her! HAHAHAHAHAHA!@


      • Malisha says:

        Wow, I owe you a hoodie? What did I bet on? Will it be a black watch plaid hoodie? We should send hoodies to Rachel with big hearts on the front and on the back the legend:


        • cielo62 says:

          Malisha~ Well, apparently I crowed too soon. It is still not known if gz will testify. You mentioned a bet that he will NOT testify and bet a $16 hoodie (your words). Still want to make that bet? gz will HAVE to testify. He has no choice.


  51. Judy75201 says:

    Why hasn’t Crump been deposed? Was that all bluster & smoke & mirrors, too? LOL.

    • boyd says:

      what the florida high court allowed the to ask they were not interest in.

    • diary73 says:

      They are waiting for the tree people to finish their exposé in order to question Mr. Crump about his part in the whole conspiracy. I truly believe this.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        omigod – bwa-hahahahahaha!

      • Woow! says:

        What exactly is the conspiracy?

      • Nef05 says:

        I think that’s why they kept Rachel under subpoena, too.

      • diary73 says:

        Woow, on yesterday’s thread, one of our champions copied SD’s conspiracy theory about how Mr. Crump, the Martins and Fultons, and others forced W8 to manufacture evidence against GZ despite her reluctance to be a part of their ploy. They took her insistence about not wanting to get involved as confirmation that they were, indeed, on the right tract.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Looks like it. They’d never get anything out of him anyway.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I love how Rachel didn’t take the Crump interview all that seriously, shattering all Sundance’s and the Treestumper’s conspiracy theories.

  52. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Congratulations, Rachael.

    You did great!

  53. YQ says:

    I would like to think that “wet grass” doesn’t make a sound, foot or body falls on wet grass make a very distinctive sound.

    • Malisha says:

      There is a story about Alexander the Great and his barber. Apparently Alexander had the ears of a donkey and he always kept it a closely guarded secret and anyone who found out was in danger of being killed. His barber, of course, knew, and arranged his hair so that they would never show.

      Unable to bear the weight of being the only person in the world who knew the secret, the barber ran out in the middle of the wheat field in the middle of the night and lay on the ground prone and whispered “Alexander has ass’s ears, Alexander has ass’s ears, Alexander has ass’s ears, Alexander has ass’s ears,” over and over again. When he felt a bit relieved he ran into his home and slept.

      Thus the wheat learned the secret and as the wind blows through a wheat field, to this day, you can hear: “Alexander has ass’s ears!”

      I say this to explain the sound of grass in RTL. It says:

      “Zzzzzzzimmmmerman issssssssss guilllllllllllty,
      Zzzzzzzimmmmerman issssssssss guilllllllllllty,
      Zzzzzzzimmmmerman issssssssss guilllllllllllty,
      Zzzzzzzimmmmerman issssssssss guilllllllllllty, …”

  54. smokeegyrl says:

    remember people were saying the flashlight was left at the T this witness says after he got up from the body he paced over to the trash can a couple of times,that would have been a good time for him to drop the key with the flashlight at that time.

  55. Malisha says:

    Hey wait a minute. Since the defense asked Rachel J to opine on the sound of grass, without objecting to their own question on the basis of either the method she should use or the size of the sample (“How much grass did it sound like?”), why don’t we bring in some more sound experts?

  56. Malisha says:

    “Can you describe that sound to me?”

    [Oh how I wish the comedy-fairy could have been there to answer]:

    “Well, it sounds like the “A” note, one octave below middle C if it’s a rainy February night in Florida. But only if you have synesthesia. Since you have sociopathic personality disorder, though, you won’t hear it the same.”

    • DruDo says:

      Malisha, if only! lol! Rachel was actually being pretty logical. If the phone had landed on a hard surface, such as concrete, she probably would have said that. Made sense to her (and me) that it landed on grass.

    • aussie says:

      Great idea, Malisha. Then we can have a 6 day Frye hearing about it, and whether overseas experts shouldn’t be used, because of the different grass in other countries. And are we talking lawn grass or grass grass? wet or dry? get satellite photos to determine how long it was. Oh and another 4 day hearing trying to get the State to pay for all this.

      State’s paid enough. If GZ ends up owing MOM & Co he should pay them off from his prison wages.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Typical Florida lawn grass is rough and thick like what is thought of as “crab grass” in other parts of the country. The ground is almost always damp and the grass is very thick and deep, even when clipped short. It always feels as if you’re sinking into it when you walk through it.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        This might help with your research 🙂

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        It will even help as you look at the photo of the tips of gz’s shoes:

        “If you want me again look for me under your boot soles.”
        ― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Justice, check your boot soles.

      • cielo62 says:

        aussie~ yeah gz can work… CUTTING GRASS! 😀


      • Two sides to a story says:

        Good job for him, Cielo, especially since a lot of Mexicans work as landscapers and gardeners.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        aussie asks

        And are we talking lawn grass or grass grass? wet or dry?

        we need experts on pipe grass. the kind you put in a pipe and smoke. when it’s wet, it does not light so well, but when it’s all dried out it’s not so great either. keeping a happy medium is critical. mostly though the sounds heard are that of a lighter and deep inhalation.

        where do i collect my $5k fee now?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      LOL! Perfect, Malisha!

  57. Big Willie says:

    I’ve never made a video, but West wants to know…

  58. anita says:

    Drunkard Taffee has just came on JVM stinking show. He is the worst of all garbage. What a complete fool he makes of himself every tim he speaks. Is he on the witness list?

    • MichelleO says:

      Why do you continue to watch?

    • Beverly says:

      Who is Taffee? Why is he famous? Thanks.

      • aussie says:

        Frank Taaffe, friend of GZ’s and owner (now in foreclosure) of the house at 1460 RVC just at the shortcut Trayvon (and most other younger people on the estate) used to get in, so avoid the longer walk to the main gate. Long divorced, one son recently killed in a single vehicle (dui) smash, Taaffe himself recently charged with dui. Can’t help himself from going on TV every chance he gets to explain all about his friend George’s sad self-defence case…. with helpful gems like “he was mad and not going to take any more” and “he was parked here” (opposite of what GZ told everyone else). One of the more outspoken racists in the estate.

        He’d love to be famous. He’s just a miserable broken man trying to grab more than his share of 15 minutes’ fame, on the back of a racist friend and a murdered teen.

  59. Woow! says:

    The state prosecutors should expose SPD. It is a shame how they covered this murder up.

    If they did it to this family think what the next family will have to go through for justice.

    If they are not stopped the cycle will continue.

    • Malisha says:

      The feds are supposedly investigating the SPD. They are really going slowly, of course. I think they hope to just quietly close the investigation without making any findings once the furor dies down. Heads SHOULD roll, though. I doubt they will. Don’t forget, Corey’s office did not want to sacrifice SPD either. Not even Baez and Serino want to sacrifice SPD.

      Once you really identify constitutionalized racism you get to the point where people start revealing what they have on EACH OTHER and then there are unintended consequences. For everybody who has something on SPD, SPD has something on them as well.

      • willisnewton says:

        Sorry to always point out our difference of opinion on this, but there is no evidence I’ve seen that the DoJ (the feds) ever moved to investigate anything other than possible civil rights violations on the part of George Zimmerman. The SPD is not the focus of any credible outside investigation to my knowledge.

      • Malisha says:

        Willisnewton, I had many conversations with DOJ back when I FOIA’d the SPD files and I spoke with a woman named Angela Washington and she not only confirmed to me that they were investigating SPD, she claimed that the investigation was up on their public information webpage. I did not navigate over there to find it because I often mean to do things I don’t get around to doing, but the investigation WAS opened and has not yet been closed. I believe Sanford hiring a new chief was part of their trying to clean up their act so they can get the FBI to say “everything’s AOK now” and leave it alone.

    • Ms.X says:

      The police officer that recently went to trial for shooting 7 yo Aliya Jones in Detroit got off on a technicality. Her family gets no justice. There are NUMEROUS examples of police killing Black people with no consequences. Thats why we joke, we don’t all the police unless we want somebody killed.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Who will call the police on the police? : /

      • Nef05 says:

        He didn’t get off. There was a hung jury. Pre-trial hearings for the 2nd trial start July 25th.

      • cielo62 says:

        Ms. X~ And you KNOW that’s true in Houston! “Sure we’ll help you with your mentally ill and distraught family member! BAM! Problem solved.”


    • boyd says:

      I don’t believe they all did, Raimiondo did his job, Singleton did hers, I think Serino started out with the usual Bullshit then after
      they lit a fire under his butt did a little better, I think he left detective duty because he sucked.

      The old time higher ups in Police and the DA in Sanford laid the foundation.

      • Malisha says:

        I do not know what Serino is doing or will do. I think he’s waiting it out. I don’t think he sucks, either. I can’t figure him out but he is smart. And he DID want Fogen charged with Murder-2.

    • Tzar says:

      totally agree, a real shame
      I will follow that case too

  60. Malisha says:

    I love the way Rachel responded to a stupid question that was also an improper question.

    “So Trayvon could have been lying to you.”

    [Should have been OBJECTION YOUR HONOR calls for speculation on the part of the witness, how would she know, etc. etc. etc. about ten reasons the question is inapprpriate]

    “That’s real retarded, sir, for someone to do that.”

    EQUALS: Puh-LEEEEEEZ! (sir)

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      Loved that. This was a bad day for the defense. Pipitone tweeted that juror 5 (e6) was looking disgusted at West during one exchange with Rachel.

      The other big fail was O’Mara having Selma do an impromptu reenactment of how she made it outside to see GZ on top of Trayvon. He must have never checked it before, because she was outside in seconds.

      • boyd says:

        I caught that , she’s nosy ha ha. “what’s going on out there”. man, she was there in 23 seconds.

        what did MOM do say “okay” , pause for 5 seconds to figure out how to spin it,.

        it’s all spin

        another female telling you what they heard. not match to Fogen story

      • boyd says:

        3 seconds

      • Tzar says:

        He must have never checked it before, because she was outside in seconds.

        “blah, who’s got time for shit like that CNN is calling and I don’t have my makeup yet”

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:


        And, because she was an architect and interior decorator, she was able to set up the scene easily!

      • I laughed hard at that one. She was out in less than 5sec and he stopped talking with a fake smile on his face.
        MoM may have thought that Selma is like Selene: Slowwwww.

      • fauxmccoy says:


        juror E6 — victim of domestic violence, mother of 2 teens — i suspect she knows an aggressive SOB when she sees one and knows that teen communication can be quite the challenge, but that west’s approach is not remotely helpful. again, i cannot say how glad i am for the mommies on this jury.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        @ faux
        E6 was the juror the State tried to strike. She displayed some hostility towards BdlR. Very good news if she is transferring her hostility towards West.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I loved that too.

      I also loved it that the letter for Sybrina that she had a friend write (and that the Treestump made SUCH a big deal about because Trayvon was spelled as Trevon) didn’t register with Rachel much. She simply didn’t know how Trayvon spelled his name. Not unusual for someone who is trilingual – and especially a Spanish speaker who usea E as the a or ay sound.

      • Dave says:

        If I’d never seen iti n print and only heard it pronounced by somebody close to him I probably would have spelled it the same way.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      That was such a good one!

      = Get real, sir.

    • Tee says:

      I am from miami and I understood exactly what she meant. I fell out laughing when she said that. People from our area say “retarded” we mean ” crazy”, it has nothing to do with mocking mental illness it’s jus the way we speak. I was rolling because I couldn’t believe she said that in open court, that’s how I know that this girl was real, what you see is what you get.

    • lady2soothe says:


      West should have done his homework before asking if the water was running when Rachel was doing her hair. I could almost hear her thinking “are you f-ing crazy, black hair and water don’t mix”

  61. Just checked jenna’s FB…still up….and frank taffee is a friend…….

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I remember seeing the name Jenna associated with Taffee’s and Jrs twitters before either had very many followers, but of course, we didn’t know her name until now.

    • ZCBest says:

      And thanks to my FB savy, I saw that she became friends with Taffe in 2012. Now think about it. What is the likelihood that she became friends with him on FB before February 26? Seems to me that if you couple that with her following Joonyah, whom she didn’t even know, so we know for sure that both came after February 26. Meaning she wanted some information from them and sought them out online or accepted them seeking her out. I wouldn’t be surprised if she had private messages with Taffe on FB or in person and also DM’ed Joonyah onTwitter. Just my two cents.

  62. concernedczen says:

    This was a VERY good day for the prosecution.

    Beautiful, sweet, brave Rachael survived.

    Jenna lied and was caught red-handed but before that the defense is so incompetent they may have opened the door so that CHARACTER EVIDENCE AGAINST ZIMMERMAN MAY COME IN!!!!

    The jury might get to hear all or some of the following:

    1. Cousin molestation and racist family
    2. Prior arrests.
    3. Animal abuse.
    4. Domestic violence
    5. Harassing of coworker

    • Woow! says:

      I wonder if he abuses Shelly?

      • Malisha says:

        I have no doubt of it. Abuse is not really a choice, for an overcontrolling hostile, angry person like Fogen who feels that nobody gives him his props. It might not be physical abuse, though. Hard to tell.

        • jm says:

          ShelLIE is abused? She looks and sounds like she holds her own and could give as good as she gets as far as abuse, physical or verbal.

    • boyd says:

      before I saw Jenna , I had her pegged as good looking and stupid.

      I don;t know how twitter works but I do know you stuff does just not appear. RZimmerman means she was looking for something that favored George and the ‘ho’ is in real estate so you know she uses Media.

    • racerrodig says:

      “1. Cousin molestation and racist family”

      Creepy Ass Cracker……as in a rapist……Holy Shit Batman. It seems Rachael was psychic !!

      File that under “Good Call”

  63. willisnewton says:

    Just a shout out to the usual suspects, here. It’s great to be in such good company as this nail-biting trial grinds forward. Hope you are all hanging in there. The struggle continues.

  64. Puck says:

    Perhaps Osterman saw the “real” target at the bank…

  65. Puck says:

    Right, I’m really starting to think Fogen and his henchmen had targeted another AA male (probably late teens), thought Trayvon was him, sent an alert to Fogen, who went out and did what he did. Once realizing Trayvon wasn’t armed, or he wasn’t the right guy, Fogen flipped out. “Tell my wife I shot someone else” — someone else as in not the one he thought he was hunting. He goes to the T, calls Taaffee and whoever else (Osterman, maybe Jon) that he fucked up. Whomever it was might well have told him to say it was self-defense and perhaps suggested something — such as dropping his keys at the T (while on the phone, at the T) — to make it seem like he was there, doing nothing wrong, and not what he was really doing and WHERE he was.

    Phone records will show if that happened. This is what racerrodig is talking about — the stuff his LE contacts know about the calls and texts.

    • groans says:

      I’m REALLY looking forward to CAC’s phone record evidence! I didn’t see enough of T-Mobile guy’s testimony today to know if it revealed any hint of bombshells. But I SO hope there are some in CAC’s phone records!

      • ay2z says:

        There were two phone records today, I didn’t compare the numbers to the numbers in testimony, but this phone record information must have been soley to provide in evidence, the call history on Feb 26th for Trayvon’s phone and for RJs phone.

      • vickie s. votaw says:

        I watched the TMobile guy testify, it was priceless. The second record is only kept for 6 mo., he had a shit eating grin on his face when he told MOM & the court that info, I think MOM needed some info that went bye bye. The defense doesn’t know how the State is going to use this. Imho

  66. whonoze says:

    Parks press conference on WFTV livestream now. Tracy and Sabrina standing behind him. Don’t know if they’ll be speaking.

  67. disappointed says:

    When can the prior bad acts come in now?

    • Nef05 says:

      If I recall the question correctly, she was asked something about his “interactions with others” and responded with a statement to the effect that she was not aware of any poor interactions with others (my words). IIRC- then that statement leaves open any documented bad act showing a poor interaction with others (battery on officer, domestic violence, even the road rage, since it was documented by police). They would probably only use the first two, since road rage may come off as being petty. But, it’s all out there.

      It all depends on the hearing, before court in the morning, when both sides present case law.

  68. Woow! says:

    I wonder how many people are following this trial. Jenna is a realtor and I hope she lose potential client b/c they see her as a racist.

    She had the never to talk down to BDLR, I know what you trying to do…WTF that comment sounded like she has been either watching the trial before she was called or have been talking to someone about it.

    • Malisha says:

      Unfortunately, in Seminole County a racist may GAIN business by this kind of advertising. But she shouldn’t ride so high… and I’m sure she didn’t like the HOA settlement.

      BTW I think the HOA settled so as not to risk punitive damages. I also think that guy Kent at the Management Company office might have had some part in all the things that coincidentally wrong wrong in RTL giving rise to the opportunity for Fogen to make a kill.

    • DruDo says:

      concerned~ among the comments on wftv, the commentator named Bruce was asked if Jenna whatsername will face any charges or any other problem due to lying about the Twitter thing and he responded, rather sarcastically, imo, that since she did nothing wrong, there was no reason for any issue about it. I’m beginning to see an obvious bias among the commentators on wftv, so won’t even read their comment section again. LOTS of GZ fans there, so they get my blood boiling, anyway. I’ve noticed remarks by all of them, Bill S., Bruce and Kathi Belich which seem to be leaning toward CAC. They’re subtle, but they’re definitely there.

      • DruDo says:

        Forgot to say Bill S., Bruce ? and Kathi Belich are all commentators on wftv during the trial.

      • Malisha says:

        Actually, for lying under oath to be perjury, it has to be “material” and “relevant” and probably the twitter business is neither. Nor, obviously, was attendance at a funeral, age, or degree of certainty regarding sounds previously heard.

      • groans says:

        WFTV? OK, true enough.

        But I have yet to find ANYTHING on TV that doesn’t favor the defense over the prosecution. And that’s odd, because TV almost always sets its “baseline” at the prosecution’s charges and then tries to yak about what the defense might have to do at trial.

        But in this case, it’s the reverse. The “baseline” is CAC’s self-serving (which is never recognized as such) story of supposed self-defense. And the yakking is all about how frail the State’s case and evidence is. Now, IMO, THIS is the preferable coverage of criminal cases. But it just doesn’t happen, typically.

        What is different about this particular “high profile” case? Well, I think that’s pretty obvious: a white perpetrator and black victim. And it sickens me.

        We need an “OJ” result here. Yes, I know OJ was the defendant, not the victim (obviously). But it’s the only case I can think of offhand with a “surprise” verdict that was against the general public’s expectations. And IIRC, it was the forensics that made the OJ verdict happen, and it’s going to have to be the forensics in this case, too. Because the public chatter indicates that the public is not impressed with the “event” witnesses in this case. And that’s troublesome. Actually, it’s disgusting.

    • This is a point of disagreement I have had for a while, particularly with Whonoze.
      She is just a witness with no marble in the game. I find her and Jeremy believable and I believe they are good for the State’s case.
      1) She heard the initial argument coming from the T area, the same as her husband Jeremy and the same as the 2 Manalos. It is hard to argue against that if you add that The initial loud argument was only heard by those 4 + Jayne S. (W18) and they all are the nearest from the T.
      2) If Selene Bahadoor is right about hearing a south-to-north run then it must have been right before. In such a case, they would have run north all the way to the T where the verbal confrontation starts. then they would have run ~2 house south where the physical confrontation started. This is not impossible time wise since the up-then-south chase from the Bahadoors would be of ~100ft which at high walk speed (6ft/sec) is ~17sec. Selene does not strike me as a flash speedy person who would have gone from her kitchen to the sliding door in 5sec + at the time she says that she thought they were just kids.
      3) Jennifer gives very valuable information like the 3 way “What are you…” encounter, the chase on the pavement that she could hear, the wrestling on the grass, the progression from the loud argument to the yelps to finally the helps, and finally a sens of duration of the confrontation.

    • KA says:

      I was once (about 15 yrs ago) doing a corporate relocation to Atlanta area and the company paired me with a real estate agent to look at houses.

      I asked her about Stone Mtn area as it looked pretty on the internet. She said “oh Honey, it gets dark a little early over there..”….

      It took me about 5 or 6 minutes to figure out what she was taking about (I was thinking a “mountain/shadow” scenario and trying to make sense of it…I was pretty stupid)…and then when I realized I just stared at her with my mouth open. I asked her to take me there anyway. On Monday, the HR director (who was AA) asked me how house hunting went. I asked her for a new real estate agent. She said “Okay something is wrong, come in my office”…so I told her, and then she immediately got on the phone. The office lost our corporate account (which was lucrative with a LOT of relos) and the agent “retired” soon after.

      Anyway, that was my experience with a long time, “southern” real estate agent.

  69. bettykath says:

    I think when fogen walked back to the T he called someone. 2 witnesses have said he had his right hand on his head in the general area where his hand would be if he were on the phone. An “aw, s…” conversation would tend to be done while pacing and looking concerned. Where was he when his neighbor took the picture? I’m waiting to hear from him.

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      That’s what I think too. We’ll find out from his phone records.

    • And a third one Jonathan Manalo (W13) said that when he approached the T and saw GZ, it sounded like he was on the phone.

    • willisnewton says:

      GZ has a cell phone to his ear when Jon/W13 took the bloody head photo. Then Jon walked a few steps south and took two shots towards the body, one featuring the body and the other of the tactical flashlight. Jon may have felt free to walk past GZ who would have had his back to him at that point BECAUSE GZ was speaking on the phone. We don’t know all the details yet. Looking forward to his testimony. We’ve heard his wife, right?

      GZ was seemingly “taking a knee” or on both knees at the place in the sidewalk where the tan 7Eleven bag was found.

      This is about 30 feet south of the T, and maybe 8-10 feet north of the body which was in the grass.

      And when GZ was with SPD, he never mentioned making or trying to make a phone call. He clearly was not “near diapers” traumatized since he had the ability to use the phone.

      Some have speculated he was rifling thru the bag to see the fruits of frisking the teen. Many things are possible. What GZ claims happened is not possible.

    • diary73 says:

      I think e was on the phone with the police officer who was dispatched from the 311 call.

      • KittySP says:

        Hmmm…that an interesting thought! Phone records will tell.

      • willisnewton says:

        there’s no record of that in the police files we’ve seen, nor did he ever claim it.

        or was there…. shit.

        There is ONE odd notation I saw LONG AGO that seem like he might have butt-dialed the NEN but the records of it were published by the city of Sanford and then taken DOWN when Corey took the case and tried to start shielding her team’s efforts and pushing for gag orders, etc.

        Long story. Hate to push conspiracy theories I can’t back up.

        It was mentioned on daily kos long long ago. Never ran it to ground.

  70. Woow! says:

    I don’t even know why the state has to waste money on this POS and have trial. That CAC is guilty as sin and eveyone knows it. They need to go ahead and just lock him up.

    I hope he get his tail beat everyday. Pookie an-em is going to have fun with that CAC. They are going to turn him into a sweet little girl just like Robbie.

  71. Dee says:

    I hope Deedee doesn’t get crazy on her phone or Facebook, saying things she doesn’t suppose too. Because they are going to be watching every move, she makes. Teens don’t talk over the phone but they sure do text a hell of a lot.

  72. Dee says:

    Does anyone realize that they are saying the same thing that Deedee was saying, or trying to say in her own dialect? Selma heard is the same thump Jenna heard the grass sound just as Deedee was trying to explain, when after she heard the grass making a noise, as though they were wrestling. And she started calling Trayvon name. Everybody, including Deedee is saying the same thing. Zimmerman has no remorse about what he has done by killing this kid for no reason.

    • aussie says:

      And West spent 2 hours torturing her about what grass sounds like etc, but never a word to all the other who “heard grass”. Bullying b…. (don’t want to say pig ‘cos pigs are great animals).

      • groans says:

        Two hours? Wasn’t more like six hours – running over and over and over the same BS? Bullying and badgering the whole time. And I bet the defense lawyers are actually proud of what they’re doing.

        I don’t get it. The mirrors in their homes must be very different from the ones I have in mine!

  73. Jenna Lied says:

    FYI Jeremey Weinburg, Jenna’s Husband also became FB friends with both Frank Taaffe and his dead son in 2012. Go get the screen caps now before its gone.

  74. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    I just gotta post this again for gz:

  75. diary73 says:

    Please, everyone with Facebook or Twitter, send out words of encouragement and appreciation to Rachel. My posts from last night have been shared a lot.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Twitter handle?

      • diary73 says:

        I have never used Twitter except when I learned about it in graduate school. I am hoping that those with Twitter can post positively about her.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I’ll search and see if I can find her twitter or some good stuff and re-tweet.

    • cielo62 says:

      Diary- what us Facebook? Her name that was revealed?


    • diary73 says:

      No, I don’t mean to send Rachel messages. I mean in general to all. There is so much negativity that is being spread about her. We must champion for Rachel and post to everyone how brave she is to have been put in the box for almost six hours with a bully and come out alive with her credibility in tact.

  76. Ty Flair says:

    She tried to pull the fogen on the State,I was not following RZ I was going in the same direction.

  77. whonoze says:

    The State is not going to get anywhere with Jenna’s Twitter, and they’ll only look like they’re badgering her if they try. Leave the badgering (and juror alienation) to West. I do think they should ask her about any complaints the HOA may have received about GZ, though.

    • Woow! says:

      Maybe the state gather info on her twitter before today and some how got to see her comments. Jennais cocky and thought she was to smart… remember she said that she was careful knowing she was to testify..

      Not careful enough in my book. I bet she was a poster on a not so nice site.

      • bettykath says:

        She’s someone who has to be in charge. She certainly framed her testimony.

        It would be good if the state could get the history of her twitter account. I can’t imagine her having so many people that she follows and so many more that follow her, without her also interacting.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Anybody truly careful would not have been following RZ Jr. in the first place. Also, she should have tightened her FB controls the moment it became clear she’d be a witness in a shooting death outside her house.

        No … she was not careful. And this social media background isn’t something the State tripped over last night …. it’s been gathered over the past year.

      • Dee says:

        I got a twitter and I think I am doing something wrong as well, because I be talking, and I never get a response back. I hope it not because they don’t want to talk to me. 😦
        Just like I don’t get any response from here either. :(, I don’t know. I think I just be talking in the air, but it gets what I have on my heart off. So it doesn’t matter if no one answers or talks to me personally. I write to hear myself, I guess, like Jenna said she didn’t know how these things work. However, I do notice they are getting people in trouble, so I may be closing them soon anyway. I don’t like people watching me like they are watching these twitters and Facebook. I will have to find another way of communication. 😦

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @dee — twitter is a strange animal. the deal is, if you are joe q. public, no one really cares about your tweets. people follow ‘famous’ people and reply to them, try to get responses. building a following on twitter is work, unless you have some notoriety behind your name.

          the only other way to get responses (other than friends) is to post regarding a trending topic, using the hashtag (#). for example, during the trial, you can follow all tweets with #zimmerman and read what others are saying. you can also make your own posts with that hashtag and maybe someone will notice.

          as a rule, i find little value in it, but that’s me. (and hey! look! i responded to you here, you mean more than twitter to me and i don’t even know you)

          keep posting here, it’ll happen and welcome aboard.

      • aussie says:

        I second what Fauxy is saying.
        If you just want to shoot off random thoughts, Twitter is fine. And don’t expect random answers.

        If you have sensible or meaningful things to say, and want meaningful responses to them, find blogs that are about topics that interest you, with nice people. Start off quietly and politely, and they’ll soon notice and reply to you.

        There are people here who’ve always been here, and others who’ve known each other for ages from other sites. Some are refugees from other sites where the anti-Trayvon nastiness got too much, and the first few who liked it here brought them over.

  78. ay2z says:

    I’m looking forward to what Jeremy has to say. The tapes in evidence are so much clearer than the copies recopied by media that we have generally heard.

    Jeremy said (maybe on his phone or another phone or to himself under his breath) “fuck you”. And before that, he said what sounds like to me at least
    “he warned me it’d [sair] you”

    The word in square brackets is what it sounds like to me, but I know others have heard it differently. Would be good to review the 911 call as heard today in court on a good clear video/audio copy without added noise.

    Looking forward to the three J’s when they have their say and have any phone records exposed.

    • groans says:

      I’m not looking forward to Jeremy. I think Jenna “wears the pants” in that household, and she has long since directed him to limit disclosure of what “they” know about the events of 2/26/12. And he’s complied. I have no reason to believe that Jeremy would stop complying with Jenna’s direction now – as much as I wish he would come forward with all he knows.

      I expect Jeremy’s testimony will be full of “I don’t know nuttin’ more than that” – unless the defense asks him, too, whether he perceived CAC to be a fine, upstanding person. Pretty much a repeat of Jenna’s testimony, and pretty much like their parallel statements to LE were.

      I don’t have any reason to believe that they’ve had any “Come to Jesus” moments since their original statements. And that’s a shame, because I think they’ve always known more than they’ve let on.

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      I am not sure Jeremy will be called in. He claims he didn’t see anything.

  79. crazy1946 says:

    How many of us remember the comment that the Fogdiot had said to someone “I killed another one or perhaps it was I killed the wrong one? I said this in a prior post, but don’t think it was noticed. When the president of the HOA testified about the young black man that was caught by the construction workers, he gave a description of late teens and about 5 ft 10 inches or so. It was mentioned that this young man lived near the back gate, as does Mz. Green! I think that the Fogdoit thought that this is who he had spotted and was chasing, only after the murder did he realize he had not killed his intended target! Whoops, the stupid creepy ass cracker was so stupid he could not even kill the right kid……

    • Dee says:


    • whonoze says:

      That kid was in jail on 2/26/12, and GZ would have known that.

    • Puck says:

      He was conveying to Shellie that he shot someone else — as in someone other than an AA they had planned on hunting, perhaps?

      • Girlp says:

        Ah! Never thought about that, stupid thought he’d cornered a thief, even if he’d caught the guy who actually burlarized the place as long as he was walking home not bothering anyone he has no justification for attempting to detain him.

    • Malisha says:

      Osterman said that Shellie called him and told him that Fogen “shot somebody else.” There you have it going from Fogen to Shellie to Osterman and coming out Osterman, who is no genius. So I don’t know whether they meant “someone else” or what they might have meant. They could have meant almost anything. When you consider syntax, semantics, intellect, education, communications problems, dishonesty, etc., it’s hard to draw any conclusions.

      What we DO know is that Osterman was intimately involved in the killing of Trayvon Martin and Shellie was intimately involved in the post-murder financial fraud.

  80. Jun says:

    Fogen cut himself with his keys?

    Is this the testimony?

  81. ay2z says:

    I want to see Taaffe take the stand and try his Nancy Grace tactics of controlling the questions he’s asked and talking over everyone else, and ‘GZ wanted me to share this with you’ bullet points.

    We must be prepared to bring out the popcorn and theatre candy for that.

    • ay2z says:

      I don’t watch NG, but two nights ago looked at the hlntv site and started with a Taaffee clip that promised Trayvon’s lawyer, Mr. Parks. Parks didn’t have a chance to speak, and I wasn’t going to listen to that idiot and whyever NG lacked any control to allow Parks to speak, that I shut it off. Quickly.

      NG is getting more rediculous with this guy, no patience for that spectacle tv.

    • Dee says:

      Please don’t say that I can’t stand this man Frank Taafee. He will make someone want to hurt him, with all of his stupid prejudice remarks.

      • ay2z says:

        Almost like this neighbor is a link in the GZ story before that night, more than owing GZ big time for that open door garage NEN call. GZ said in later call or other recording, ‘that neighbor always leaves his garage door open’ (paraphrased, but meaning he always does this).

        You wonder if at that location by the short cut from Colonial, if it wasn’t a great little sting location, and if doors might be left out sometime on purpose.

      • MichelleO says:

        You get what you pay for. Racists will be racists. So, why you’re giving a racist the time of day; I do not understand.

    • Malisha says:

      If you plant popcorn, you get popcorn.

  82. Dee says:

    Everybody is saying pretty much the same thing as Dee, Dee was trying to say. Maybe they should have been giving her an interpreter. However, she was saying about the grass sound just a Jenna was saying as well.

    • MedicineBear says:

      Notice how the CACLs (Crazy Ass Cracker Lawiars) didn’t bully and humiliate the other witnesses that said much the same things that Dee Dee said.

      Hmmmm, they are all females . . . what is different about Dee Dee and the other witnesses who heard grass sounds (for instance)? What could it be? Whatever could it be? I’ll have to watch the news to see if it could possibly be racial.

      • Woow! says:

        DeeDee is black that is what different. I am starting to think MOM is a racist.

      • Nef05 says:

        I agree Faux. That reenactment stunt with Selma was clear as glass. He was hoping the women of the jury didn’t like her because of her clothes and looks (envy) so he paraded her around the courtroom, in the hopes that they disregard her testimony, out of cattiness.

        • jm says:

          Did anyone question the point/relevance of O’Mara having the witness reenact going to the door from her kitchen. I thought it was sleazy but it seems it would be up to the prosecution to ask for relevance.

      • dianetrotter says:

        I listened to a former prosecutor (Sonny H? young looking black lady) discuss the perceptions of DeeDee. I’m sure her size and perceived ghettoness increased the “dislike” factor. The attitude was a defense mechanism. She really softened when she spoke to JN because she knows the judge is not out to get her.

      • groans says:

        What could it be? It’s a no brainer. And watching the “news” will show what I mean by that. It’s not just the defense lawyers in the case. It’s a fricken national prejudice towards this case, which is inexplicable and irrational.

    • DruDo says:

      re the “grass” sound: St. Augustine grass is widely used in FL., but if not cared for properly, will develop a mat of thatch easily, which is dry, dead leaves of stems, roots, etc., which will sound kinda “crunchy” when walked on…or if something is dropped on it…like a phone. Betcha RTL has St. Aug. grass.

      • PiranhaMom says:


        You are correct, DruDo, that RATL has St. Augustine grass for its landscaping, particularly around the homes and in the dog walk areas. I confirmed this last year with the landscaping company that held the contract with the HOA and the management company for RATL at the time of the February 26 killing.

        I was checking out the landscape sprinkler heads involved, and specifically asked the type of grass installed. And you have described St. Augustine thatch precisely! Crunchy stuff – congratulations!

  83. Before it’s too late, should we check social medias for:
    1) Jeremy Austin Weinberg (Wit 20)
    2) John Good (Wit #6), &
    3) Amanda Marie Seljan (wit #17)

  84. Dee says:

    Frank Taafee got to Jenna too, it seemed, I don’t trust this man he is differently a racist. I think that Frank Taafee is and was Zimmerman’s mentor. As well as he is a racist from everything he has been saying on Nancy Grace, and Jane Mitchell shows. He is wanting to start a race war with the commit that he makes on these shows, which I can’t understand why they keep putting him on, other then for ratings. The police should have picked him up since he thinks that he knows so much concerning this case, but they didn’t, because he knows nothing but racist remarks. He knows nothing about what happened if he did, they would have called him into the court to testify. He is insufficient to what happened and should stay off of the TV trying to get his 15 min. He is not a specialist. He’s not a lawyer. Who is he? Nothing but a neighbor who got close to Zimmerman teaching him what he should be doing as a neighbor watch captain. Why they are continuing to put someone who can provoke trouble on their show, I have not understanding of that. Yes, he could be a friend who has been mentoring Zimmerman on watching blacks who comes into the neighborhood as well as who lives in the neighborhoodl.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      He was on Nancy Grace last night, something I don’t ordinarily watch but with my internet down, was trying to piece together yesterday’s events. I don’t know why she bothers having him on – for the ratings of course – she’s at least good at putting him in his place.

    • Malisha says:

      Taaffe is a very common type. He is dissatisfied, angry, controlling and abusive and he’s probably an alcoholic and at least a drunk. He has an excuse for everything in his life and that excuse has to do with all the wrongs that everybody ELSE has been doing. All HE ever does is try to CORRECT their wrongs. The WORST kind of parent and all of his kids showed it by word and/or deed. Two out of three of his kids are now deceased but the remaining one, and his ex-wife, have restraining orders against him. He’s unsuccessful in his own life and suffers from delusions of adequacy. He says things that are made of cliches plus lies and pumps up his own ego by pontificating about the wrongdoing of others. He’s selfish, stupid, conniving and dishonest. It’s people like him who give assholes a bad name.

      • “It’s people like him who give assholes a bad name.”….LMAO 🙂

        Gotta put that one in my insult playbook 🙂

      • camanokat says:

        You are so funny! Love that last sentence!

      • groans says:

        @ MMP – LOL!

        • jm says:

          Anybody watching Frank Taaffe on Nancy Grace. Sounds like he and hostile witness Jenna Lauer are in cahoots and have plotted a story to back up GZ’s story.

          I think they are both racist and did not like young black males in their neighborhood.

          I knew from the very beginning I did not like Jenna Lauer but could not put my finger on it. Now Frank Taaffe is putting things in perspective and after today’s testimony and Frank Taaffe on Nancy Grace the puzzle pieces are coming together.

      • dianetrotter says:

        He probably blames his lack of success on black people getting the jobs through affirmative action.

  85. Sabrina B. says:

    She was believable.

  86. ay2z says:

    So the state failed to immortalize testimony of the past instructor/prof of the gz, the defense nor gz was able to be there (or didn’t) and the state could only do a ‘depo’ of him.

    Defense got their way.

    • Woow! says:

      I don’t follow, please explain.

      • ay2z says:

        Ok, right at the end of proceedings after jury left, Mr. Mantai spoke about a ‘deposition’ in which the defense nor their client was able to be present. Unless this is about Ben Crump, and doubt it is because they hav his affidavits on file and it was up to the defense to be present for a depo that THEY wanted, and I’m not sure defendant has a right to be at that).

        Also, Ben Crump is not now away for 6 weeks on a trekking adventure in New Mexico. The prof/instructor of a course with text books, is away now, he was to leave Tuesday, and the state got permission from JN to memorialize his ‘testimony’. The defense and client, were to attend, question this witness as in full cross, with state doing direct and that, JN said was to be memorialized.

        Didn’t happen.

        Now the only chance to get this witness’s testimony over the nex 6 weeks, is possibly an opportunity by Skype, if he’s able to be contacted when they try to get his testimony.

        The judge said she wasn’t to be kept informed of how this situation progresses, at he very end of hearing today.

      • ay2z says:

        JN … WAS’ to be informed (not wasn’t)

    • Trained Observer says:

      Am not understandin what you’re saying here …. ????

      • ay2z says:

        TO, this witness would presumably be able to testify to the course material for courses in which GZ was a student, and bring textbooks along.

        I looked for a term under the one textbook, ie: ‘justifiable homicide’ and that google bookseller link (amazon I think it was) gave a preview.

        Yes, under ‘criminal intent’ heading in a chapter, this was discussed. If this was reading or test material that the state can prove GZ was responsible for, unless he was all tripped out and blearly eyed or on drugs or sumpthin’, the state will be able to show that GZ was informed, knew about justifiable homicide, studied it, had textbook resources available, for his coursework.

      • ay2z says:

        This would back up the statement GZ made to Serino when he asked “do you know how these things can go?” That statement followed on the heels of the revelation to Serino, that GZ had the tactical flashlight in his hand, the one ‘not clicking on’ when he and Trayvon came together.

        Serino knew at that point, the comment of the flashlight and the switch of topic to ask the qusetion of how these things can go, that GZ’s story about walking back to his car, got past the T and the guy called to him, did a single punch to the face and landed him then and there, one blow, was a fabrication, based on physical evidence.

        The tactical flashlight. (unless the tactical flashlight was used post-shooting, to damage his head of course, which doesn’t make sense to leave it where it was near the body).

      • ay2z says:

        mmp, that’s about the size of it– the defense sure doesn’t want the public perception of that big grin-faced cap and gowner being exposed on national tv for what he was doing graduating and letting people believe he graduated, because he wore the regalia.

    • MedicineBear says:

      Me too neither.

    • Nef05 says:

      So since they didn’t want the testimony anyway, they just didn’t show up? Then, shouldn’t his statement be able to be read into the record. There can’t be any 6th amendment issues, because they had the opportunity to cross, they simply didn’t. How do you just flout the court’s ruling that way?

      • ay2z says:

        I’m looking forward to Judge Nelson’s handling of this as it comes up again.

      • groans says:

        I’m like Nef05 … It doesn’t make sense to me that the defense could negate the court’s ruling to preserve testimony by just not showing up. If the defense “decided” (as the defense likes to say) not to attend, then they waived their right to cross-examine the instructor, it would seem to me.

    • Nef05 says:

      Also, the defense had the chance to depose him, since he was on the witness list since April, they simply didn’t.

      • ay2z says:

        Yes, they didn’t want him to be able to testify– excuse was ‘oh judge, there were 200 witnesses, how could we know which one to depose?’ (jist of the argument to the court when the state asked for this testimony to be memorialized. Obviously this witness was on the defense’s own list too. They ignored, hoping the state wouldnt’ go there. Now they ignored again, causing this witness to never be heard possibly.

  87. MrSykes says:

    I love this witness strategy. Mary Kutcher is going to nail this guy when she comes up.

  88. ay2z says:

    Ms. Mora (sp) did well.

    Confused? Yeah, figuring out his story, talking on the phone, maybe dropping his keyring with tiny flashlight left ‘on’ at the T area.

    • Dee says:

      I believe he could have been injuring himself with the butt of his own gun. They didn’t find blood anywhere from him anywhere not even on Trayvon, and this is strange. Like I have been saying all along, these injuries just are not consistent with being bashed against the side walk. And now we know everything was on the grass not the side walk. We really don’t know why his hair was so short then, normally people that are accustomed to wearing their hair short doesn’t normally go back to longer hair very fast. He could have been injured before and just opened by hitting them over. Like I said people have shot themselves to prevent from being charged with a murder that they did commit.

    • MedicineBear says:

      That’s right! After CAC frisked Trayvon (as he was dying) for some sort of weapon as a “throw down” to justify self-defense and found nothing, he had to concoct his lame-ass false flag versions.

      BTW, can anyone explain how the skittles and drink got out of the 7-11 bag but still remained in TM’s front pocket?

      • Shari Hardin says:

        It’s possible he put them in his pocket when it started raining. Testimony did say it was intermittent. If I had been caught in rain I might put my items in my pocket so my hands wouldn’t get wet. But that doesn’t explain why they were still on his person when Raimondo was trying to save his life. Fogen didn’t have time to plant anything. There were so many witnesses and police did get there soon after.

      • KittySP says:

        MedicineB, only skittles were placed in pocket while in7-11…drink was in bag. Question then becomes, how did empty bag end up on grass and drink in his pocket?

  89. ZCBest says:

    Jenna deleted her twitter!

  90. whonoze says:

    A key could not have made the cuts on Z-CAC’s head. They are relatively clean, and the edge of a key is too blunt. It had to be something sharper. (It wasn’t head hitting concrete, either, for the same reason…)

    • Woow! says:

      Those cuts were in the top of his not not at the back where concrete would have made contact.

      • Puck says:

        That’s where the shimmying comes in. It’s in the walk-through — he said he moved his body down (while enduring simultaneous punches and head-on-concrete bashes) so that only the top third of his head was on the concrete, the rest on the grass.

      • dianetrotter says:

        The hickanuts are on the sides of his head. I suppose his head was being turned side to wide with each bang while Trayvon covered his mouth and nose.

    • ay2z says:

      If things happened as he said, re the damage to scalp on sidewalk, there would be more abrasions surrounding any cuts, and debris in the wounds, dirt, concrete fragments, and infection. Peroxide may not have been enough if some of those microscopic bits were embedded and not removed by the H202 wash and wipe. Darn, SZ will have to testify about what she did!! LOL!

      • I still have asphalt in the back of my head from when I was hit by a car at 8YO……….And I’m older than dirt now…

        A knuckle bandage on his nose the day after too…..priceless

    • Dave says:

      The tactical flashlight definitely could have done it.

    • MedicineBear says:

      Is the U-shaped track on the end of his gun (for attaching a flashlight to gun) a possibility?

    • ay2z says:

      Clean yes.

    • BillT says:

      a fingernail could have easily made those tiny scratches….and i disagree about a key indeed a key COULD put those tiny scratches on a head….the tip of the key could be used…..bottom line no rational person could accept that his head was slammed repeatedly onto any surface.

  91. Jenna Lied says:

    To be clear she became Facebook friends with Frank Taaffee in 2012.

  92. chi1224 says:

    Fogen was concerned about witnesses and thinking up lies. He lied immediately and that’s one of the reason there are so many holes. He didn’t have the chance to match his story to the evidence or witness accounts.

  93. Tzar says:

    The defense is essentially testifying and trying to get the witnesses to agree with their testimony
    they are putting words in people’s mouth

    • Nellie Nell says:

      Right, instead of poking holes for reasonable doubt. The force at which they are trying to paint people as liars is disturbing me. These people know what they heard and saw. I think Ms. Surdyka had the best vantage point and her testimony was key. Plus her presence commanded respect. She could not be intimidated by the defense.

  94. Nef05 says:

    Is she the 3rd or the 4th witness who places fogen on top?

    If she is, either 3rd or 4th, how does O’Mara show the jury that Trayvon was (not) on top? W6? That’s not going to go well. Plus, it’s just one out of all of these who said fogen was on top.

    • whonoze says:

      3rd. Selene and Selma can only place GZ on top post gun-shot, and the Defense will concede that. Jayne seems to place GZ on top pre-gunshot, but she also has TM face down pre-gunshot and we know she’s mistaken about that.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        Actually Selena doesn’t realize she saw GZ on top, but she was looking outside at the same time as Selma and Mary. She said she only saw the body, but she describes the body as wearing a red jacket. W12 also saw GZ on top.
        I think Austin didn’t see the person at the bottom, just like Selena.

      • Don’t forget Jeannie M. who placed GZ on top at gunshot.

        Jennifer L. also said something interresting that is that she heard the bodies were like rolling on the grass. This important as it indicates that John seeing TM on top for 10sec may not be representative of the whole struggle.

        Finally, if you compare Wit #3 drawing with [the 2 right south of the concrete block possibly by TM’s cell phone] that of John Good [The two right in front of his sliding door on the grss and then on the sidewalk] and the final body position [on the grass between the 1st and 2nd houses], it appears that the wrestling moved south to north.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        You can time when and how long John was watching, by using Selena’s and W19’s statements.

      • Tzar says:

        @tchoupi and whonoze
        thank you for your work and posts
        every time I hear the detailed mechanics of this case all I can think is that his kid did not have to die
        there is no good reason at all why this family has had their son taken from them!!

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      W6 was also outside earlier than the witnesses that saw GZ on top after the shot. W1, W12 and w19 saw when John looked out of his screendoor. They also saw him go back inside again.
      W1 went back to her kitchen and w19 went upstairs to her bedroom before they heard the shot.

      • PiranhaMom says:


        JohnW6’s “recantation” – his second LE interview – specifically stated that Zimmerman appeared to be rearing up from the bottom position, restrained only by Trayvon’s hands.

        We know Trayvon was exhausted at that point..

        We know Zimmerman was trained in those techniques.

        There is no question in my mind that Zimmerman was successful in reversing the mount. Very easy to do, when trained.

        I have also considered that the “grappling” that went on in the grass while Zimmerman was in the “under” position caused the back of his head to scrape across either a sprinkler head (the center screw slightly elevated is the right diameter for those two minor scalp wounds that bled so colorfully) and that they bled in the pattern shown in the photo because Zimmerman’s head never touched grass again.

        He was on Trayvon. (“I knew I was on him.”)

        Then he carefully pumped a single hollow-point into the kid’s heart.


        • cielo62 says:

          P-Mom~ I don’t mind that scenario except that CAC has NO grass or water stains on his jacket at all. How did that happen?


  95. Jenna Lied says:

    side note folks Jenna Lauer became friend with Frank Taaffee in 2012, she is definitely following RZ him on twitter, along with over 100 other people.

  96. My Forehead Tho says:

    So Jenna Lauer lied under oath, here’s a snapshot of the people she’s following on twitter:

    • My Forehead Tho says:

      I’m not Matthew Keys btw..

    • Trained Observer says:

      Surprise, surprise … she’ a Mitt Romney follower.

    • Mari says:

      She has deleted her account, it makes her look guilty of something…

      • ladystclaire says:

        Did she really think that, after she left that courtroom, that the state would not have their interns on those sites, before she and her attitude, could get out of the courtroom.

      • Tzar says:

        I don’t get it if she never tweeted or had interactions with him, what is her concern?

      • aussie says:

        What an idiot. After all the fake Trayvon and DeeDee sites everywhere, didn’t it occur to her they might look at everybody’s? and delete them months or at least weeks ago? doing it now just makes her look even more guilty about the account.

    • MrSykes says:

      Great work!

    • fauxmccoy says:

      i got screen shots and sent to corey’s office. good thing too, because the page has already been removed.

      • ZCBest says:


      • MrSykes says:

        I love you guys.

      • Tzar says:

        It’s on like donkey kong

      • groans says:

        @ fauxmccoy – Great job! >>Applause>>

        Did your screenshot look the same as the one posted above?

        I’m really confused about what the heck they were all looking at on Mantei’s laptop at the witness stand.

        And it boggles my mind that someone would blatantly lie under oath in a murder trial, leave the courtroom, and within an hour or two try to destroy evidence of her lie. It’s just such stupid behavior! (That’s not to say it wouldn’t be done, though, just that it’s mind-boggling.)

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @groans — my screenshot looks similar — i realized while i was in the process that the account was being deleted because although it was still loaded in my browser, on another browser it would not load. i just got the mac laptop i am on and had not downloaded a good screen shot application yet, so was using the one that comes with a mac – so my screenshot is in 2 individual pictures. i just knew i needed to work fast. i’m going to assume i’m not the only one who got it and corey’s office can contact me if they need to.

          what seems clear is that bernie accepted this woman’s answer that these people were ‘following’ her because you could see the ‘follow’ button. bernie did not understand that the reason he saw the ‘follow’ button was because they were not logged into her account.

          that’s why i also suggested they get more tech/social media savvy folks on board ASAP.

      • Nellie Nell says:

        Faux the reason it says follow is because you are looking at who she is following so if you were to click follow, you too would follow that person because you are logged into your account and not hers. She is definitely following jr.

    • Dave says:

      Looks like she follows a couple of ladies in the…adult entertainment biz.

    • groans says:

      Here’s a Tony Pipitone courthouse tweet:

      This witness Lauer does in fact appear to follow @rzimmermanjr on Twitter. State likely wants jury to hear that to consider bias.”

      It looks like Tony’s tweet was sent at 4:12 pm – it says 1:12 pm, but I believe that’s Pacific Time (something I learned from T-Mobile guy today, because tweet times always looked kooky). So it was after Jenna left, and during Selma’s testimony, suggesting he did some research before tweeting.


    • kllypyn says:

      So she committed perjury. A 17 year old kid was killed and she’s willing to lie to protect the killer. i hope she is never able to have kids.

    • Nellie Nell says:

      LOL. I love you guys. Then she lied further talking about “it say follow” yeah, for someone looking at who you are following that may want to follow that idiot too! She had the audacity to lie further on the stand in front of the wold to see. She also went outside and seen more than she says. This is why the screams are loud at the start of her 911 call and then become more distant. She is a liar.

  97. Nellie Nell says:

    He was not staggering Mark

  98. Ms.X says:

    Concerned about himself. Not concerned enough to give CPR. Is everyone gone again?

  99. KittySP says:

    Ok, so MOM is trying to say that the spreading of the hands, Guy mentioned in his opening didn’t happen. BUT HE FORGETS THAT HIS OWN CLIENT ADMITTED TO DOIN THAT.

    • Malisha says:

      Fogen didn’t “admit” doing that; he made that up from whole cloth because NOBODY asked him about it and NOBODY accused him of it! He threw in another gratuitous lie!

  100. Nellie Nell says:

    MOM is so smug with such a nasty attitude.

  101. anita says:

    That pos cut his own head with his keys. He smothered Trayvon to make sure he was dead. Fuck that evil scum. Did another wittness see fogens hands around Trayvons’ throat?

  102. chi1224 says:

    concerned?? Yeah, concerned that no weapon meant he just killed an innocent person.

  103. Malisha says:

    If anyone or everyone heard running AFTER the time of the cut-off of the Trayvon/Rachel phone call, Fogen’s story is GONE. OVER. Blasted to smithereens. BYE BYE. Annihilated.

    Punch. [stumble or no stumble]. Fall. Mount. Help me Help me. Punch Punch Punch. Slam Slam Slam. Shimmy. You’re gonna die tonight mufucka. Draw-aim-fire. You got me or you got it. Fall back. Spread out hands. Holster gun or not holster gun. Stand. Admit. Handcuffs. Boo Hoo.

    Where did the “runs” go?

    Oh yeah, LATER Fogen got the runs.

    • willisnewton says:

      Great point. I mean what is this running/ scuffling all about? Certainly not the fish paddle side stroke “I think I stumbled” portion of the false narrative.

      I’ve always felt its clear someone closed a so between these two people. Then my HUNCH is that there was some sort of “quarterback scramble” that moved a bit, possibly north AND south and then the two went to the ground as GZ tried to detain the teen.

      Punch or no punch ( I favor the latter) the struggle was about an attempt by GZ to detain the teen.

      Many things are possible. What GZ claims happened is not possible.

    • racerrodig says:

      “The truth never changes…………..but the lie ALWAYS morphs”


  104. willisnewton says:

    Someone buy BDLR a Micheloeb – and get RJ anything she wants too. A good day in the fight for truth and justice!

  105. Ms.X says:

    Objection! Calls for speculation!

  106. Ms.X says:

    fogen sure as shit didn’t count on there being so many witnesses.

  107. Ms.X says:

    From Twitter

    Jeremy is also friends with Taffee on FB https://www.facebook.com/jeremy.weinberg.12/friends … @attorneycrump

  108. Nellie Nell says:

    He is forgetting about what Ms. Sudyka that had a better advantage point which says the same thing from a different angle! I guess you can poke holes in a story, but this team tortures the witnesses!

  109. chi1224 says:

    Face it crypto, Fogen never spread the arms, he LIED, NUMEROUS TIMES

  110. Unabogie says:

    Can someone recap what this witness said on direct?

    • chi1224 says:

      she heard noise, came out and saw Fogan on top of Trayvon, saw Fogen get off, now going into more detail.

  111. Ms.X says:

    can we have a reenactment, using real people, of the fight? Please?

  112. type1juve says:

    Now make the murderer get down on the floor and show how he got his gun out.

    • ZCBest says:

      got my popcorn ready for that…

    • KittySP says:

      Ok! With someone slamming his head punching him in the face…literally, not figuratively! I thinks it should be exactly how it happened that night in order for the court to experience the life and death beating

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        That would be very helpful for the jury.

        Perhaps they could also bring in a section of concrete sidewalk to put under his head.

  113. Sabrina B. says:

    He’s trying to prejudice the jury with her manner of dress.

  114. disappointed says:

    Is MOM alluding to that noise being GZ head slammed into concrete at T? Cause if he is saying she could hear his head slammed into the ground from her place to the T, Fogen would be dead.

    • racerrodig says:

      Any bets The Moron Man says this head bashing was a 7.5 on the Richter Scale in a few days. It was a bit funny when O’ Mara whips out the Wagner pic and asks if Lauer recognized this man and she said, no.

  115. Nellie Nell says:

    There was no head banging Mark the ass! No one seen that. No one! They were in the grass!

  116. chi1224 says:

    Can anyone refresh me on what Fogen told police about why he was on top of Trayvon?

    • Judy75201 says:

      I recall him saying he was spreading Trayvon’s arms apart to restrain him.

    • disappointed says:

      restraining him. Dead Trayvon was still trying to kick his ass.

      • Deborah Moore says:

        Good on ya. I was gonna say because he was afraid that dead center contact shot wasn’t enough?
        Can you spell psychopath? I thought you could.

      • chi1224 says:

        He was looking for a weapon, and then shit himself when there wasn’t one, so his lies began. That’s what I believe.

        • @ Chi

          X2………Trayvon wasn’t the thug he thought he had bagged….no weapons (other than a sidewalk!!!)….and he KNEW he better come up with some good shit quick…….

      • Deborah Moore says:

        Chi, I believe that too.
        Why is that creep smiling this afternoon?
        What do you think? What he does when he gets scared? Me no know.

      • Malisha says:

        He “flipped him over” to see if the bullet had exited and gone into the ground IMO. Seeing that it hadn’t he was very relieved because if it had, the position of his victim at the time of the shot would have been obvious. Then he would have had West tell the jury that Trayvon had used the grass as a weapon, instead of the sidewalk.

      • Malisha says:

        I believe Fogen was real clear on the fact that Trayvon had no weapon when he first profiled him. If he thought Trayvon had a weapon he would have kept patrolling until he saw a young Back kid he was SURE was unarmed.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Dead Trayvon IS kicking his ass. 6 hours of questioning Rachel Jeantel got them nowhere, but emphasized CAC’s Following, Chasing, Attacking unprovoked, wind in the phone to show running… may be that it’s just wishful thinking on my part, but I think CAC will be justiced.

    • My Forehead Tho says:

      If my memory is correct, he said he had to restrain Trayvon Martin. For what reason nobody knows

      I’m sure the truth will come out in court though- after shooting Trayvon in the heart, he turned him around and sat on his back until he stopped breathing.

      • chi1224 says:

        Trayvon must have clutched his chest and fell forward after the shot, then Zimmerman got down to search for a weapon. No sane person will conclude he needed to be “restrained” after the shot. Fogan is such a LIAR

      • diary73 says:

        He also said that he told a neighbor not to call 911 because he had already called 911 and that, instead, he needed the neighbor to restrain “this guy.”

      • aussie says:

        Yeah on account of :Trayvon was still cussing and all, he wasn’t sure he’d even got him, and didn’t find out he was dead until more than an hour later at the police station.

        Of course if you’re life is in grave danger and you don’t think your first shot connected, why not shoot again? he still did have 7 bullets left.

        BS all the way. He was searching for a weapon to justify the shoot, and when he didn’t find one he had to invent the concrete.

      • PiranhaMom says:


        Fogen said he thought Trayvon “must have had something in his hands” from the force of the “beating” fogen took, so he pushed Trayvon’s hands apart so he could not attack fogen again.

        Fogen certainly earned his Wuss Badge that night.

    • Malisha says:

      He says after Trayvon said “you got it or you got me” he either sat up or fell back and somehow he ended up face down on the ground. Then he says either he holstered his gun or he omits mention of the gun and says he got on top of Trayvon and spread out his hands “because when he was hitting me it felt like he had something in his hands.” In a different version, he says he was still trying to restrain Trayvon who was “still struggling and cursing.” He claims to have asked a neighbor to help him restrain the still struggling/cursing Trayvon.

      • chi1224 says:

        The ME will expose that lie at lightening speed

      • racerrodig says:

        In his “reenactment” which in reality is a “practice run” he says he put his gun over there (points to his right) them within a minute he says his gun was in his holster and he bends to his left to show where it was “under his shirt”

        I believe LLMPapa had a video on that. What a lying CAC.

  117. whonoze says:

    This is the first I’ve heard of a witness from 1251 RVC.

  118. Woow! says:

    I visited axiomamnesia.com and saw this comment. Did anyone else hear what this commenter is referring to.

    “After the gun shot a male entered her home who wasn’t Jeremy and uttered a “fuck yeah” in a satisfactory tone (convo between this man and Jeremy (or another male) continue). She’s on the board but she did not speak to the prime person in charge of the neighborhood watch program? She is extremly SUSPECT. ”


    “”Please Im begging you!!!!” Once Jeremy comes in the home you hear him talking & whispering in the background, as a matter of fact, after the gunshot you can hear Jeremy whisper to her at 53 seconds, either ”HE WARNED ME” or ”HE WANTED ME TO”..?..?..?… but i cant make out the rest. Jeremy was definitely outside, he knows more than he’s letting on. Something very fishy about him and Mrs HomeOwners association president. Also on George Zimmermans non emergency call, right after the gun cocks and he says “ok” he’ll stop following Trayvon, you hear him opening someones patio door and knocking 3 times. that door was either Johns (20) or witness 11.”

    • whonoze says:

      BS. Even Alan Reich doesn’t hear a “fuck yeah” and that sound on GZ’s call is NOT a door.

      Jeremy does say something not quite intelligible though, about the events outside, and I’d love to know what he did actually say.

      • gbrbsb says:


        Jeremy does say something not quite intelligible though, about the events outside,

        Like this, which is one of the utterances I have isolated which I attribute to Jeremy after the shot (I have a few isolated for him before the shot too).

        I repeated it 6 times which may not be the best idea as I hear it as clear as daylight with just one pass, i.e. “Is(its) the black hurt(hit)” (I am pretty sure the first is the correct). It is what I hear but IMBW, in any case it wouldn’t mean more than what it says and unless Jeremy says he didn’t know even after the shot that the victim was black, I can’t see it would be important:

      • gbrbsb says:

        Just listened to it again in respect of shot and it is immediately after the shot so if Jeremy, he must have known one of them was black from before the shot.

    • Tzar says:

      Been saying this, but so far no witness has supported this yet

  119. Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

    Yes.. self inflicted there you go…..

  120. Is the (.88) at the end of her FB addy her choice?

    88 is supremacists cover for the 8th letter of the alphabet “H”

    8-8…..H-H heil hitler

    Any white guy you see with a jersey with the name Wood and the number 88?……..Run Forrest RUN

  121. Nellie Nell says:

    So he put those scratches with his keys and then dropped them at The T…….. That is what it sounds like according to her and Ms. Sardyka!

  122. disappointed says:

    did he cut himself with his key and ditch it up at T?

  123. ladystclaire says:

    I’m just sitting here thinking, I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if Jenna had a couple of socks on HP and some other sites, where these racist are supporting this child murderer.

  124. disappointed says:

    George is pissed!

  125. groans says:

    CAC was cutting himself!

  126. ZCBest says:

    She is nailing it en español!

  127. PerfectlyImperfect says:

    I found Jenna’s facebook page.

  128. MedicineBear says:

    CAC = Crazy Ass Cracker (pronounced like you’re coughing up a hairball)

  129. groans says:

    She (I forget her name – Mary Cutcher’s roommate) understands a lot of the questions in English, it looks like to me.

    • Judy75201 says:

      I worked once with a woman from Central America who was stunningly adept with the written English language, but had much difficulty with pronunciation.

  130. Tzar says:

    He was suffocating the poor kid

  131. tonya B says:

    do yall see fogen smiling

  132. MrSykes says:

    Crucial witness here. Crucial.

  133. Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

    Professor.. or anyone else… If the door is opened for GZ’s past and character, does it also open the door on TM’s past even if the prosecution did not open “TM’s past up”?????

  134. PerfectlyImperfect says:

    Does anyone have a link to Jenna Lauer’s facebook page?

  135. I KNEW I had seen her before…….Late one night watching porn

    “Jenna does Joonya” 🙂



  136. crazy1946 says:

    Too bad BDLR did not ask her if she ever contributed to the slush fund for the defendant….. Give you 2 to 1 odds she did!

    • whonoze says:

      Bad bet. Jenna’s only looking out for Jenna. She’s totally tuned into her potential liability as an officer of the HOA. She would never open herself to the “exposure” a contribution would bring. If she does follow Jr., she’s probably just checking to see which way the various winds are blowing, not because she’s a fan. Her association with Z-CAC has put her in financial peril, and she just wants to get out of this as clean as she can.

      • crazy1946 says:

        Back when all this started I don’t think it had ever occurred to anyone in the HOA that there would be legal action against them by a member of Trayvons family! Besides MOM and promised that the names of the donors would not be disclosed….. I still think it would be a good bet. This lady is not too bright and thinks every one else is stupid, people like that make so many mistakes that they often trip over their own noses!!

  137. gbrbsb says:

    He even “translated” the crying sound !

  138. Woow! says:

    Jenna Lauer graduated from the University of Phoenix ….that explains

  139. YQ says:

    Huge witness here. Cutcher’s roommate.

    • Ms.X says:

      She seems to be very neutral. When I saw Mary on tv, she definitely seemed like she thought Trayvon was murdered. This lady was standing next to Mary like she agreed.

  140. fauxmccoy says:

    omg — she let her children out at night…. the horror!

    /snark off

  141. tonya B says:

    fogen doesn’t like this witness

  142. Nef05 says:

    So much for the idiots who think you can’t be Hispanic and white, at the same time.

    • Deborah Moore says:

      Only the folks who don’t live near Hispanics think that.
      (Don’t tell them there are blond jews too.)

    • Girlp says:

      When my mom separated from my dad she worked with a Cuban of Castillian heritage she had blue eyes and blond hair.

  143. Judy75201 says:

    She’s never tweeted, nor has she ever favorited a tweet. Follows mostly celebrities.

  144. Ms.X says:

    The court reported sucks.

  145. ay2z says:

    OMG, she hasn’t thought about what to wear to court and before cameras

    • Deborah Moore says:

      Thank you. I kept my mouth shut on her.
      It looks like Florida is even more casual than other places.
      C’mon, folks. Court is court.

    • Ms.X says:

      She looks beautiful. I’ not sure why you don’t like her dress.

  146. Deborah Moore says:

    John Guy! (Do we need to put the live feed on an 8 second delay?) Kidding.

  147. Boyd says:

    she is big time on facebook and FrankTaffe photo is there.

  148. ada4750 says:

    What Schaffer is saying? If W11 heard shoes sound on concrete that’s mean they were standing up. How this help Zimmerman?

    • gbrbsb says:

      Another running and standing witness… less “ground and pound” as MOM called it !

    • Boyd says:

      it does not, MOM wants you to ignore it. they’re wearing the defense down. MOM’s, West defense is so bad because George is a liar. I see it’s Hard to defend a liar.

      so far no actual witness has collaborated George’s story. Not even his girl Jenna

      • aussie says:

        Nobody has HEARD George’s story yet — officially. We have ‘cos we’ve bothered to read the evidence dumps.. But jurors who did that were eliminated. So they have no idea officially what the defence story is. The State is just setting things up so he can never tell that story(ies) and have them listen with a straight face.

        Murder 2.

        The defence is trying to sneak in bits of his story but the witnesses are knocking it down in bits, too. There’ll be nothing left in the end, except Murder 2.

  149. fauxmccoy says:

    lauer does follow jr on twitter


  150. HereslookingatYou says:

    I hope he get’s her with original statement of …whatcha doing

  151. crazy1946 says:

    Here is what is probably true, she is/was possibly involved in the management of the HOA and you can bet that there was a criminal/credit history done on the Fogdiot, before they moved in. With his prior history, he could not have moved into most rental places like this, unless someone (Frank T) pulled some strings!

  152. trina cosbie says:

    She is lying about something for sure. “I don’t know why I would do that” instead of NO, I didn’t do that, speaks volumes. BDLR wasn’t smirking for no reason. Shit is about to get real!!

  153. ay2z says:

    West just tried to strangle his client. LOL!

  154. YQ says:

    Confirmed is Jenna Lauer following RZjr. I don’t think this is the end of that one hence the recall. She just gave some obviously false information.

    • ay2z says:

      Mr. Mantai is no slouch when it comes to tech stuff.

      • ay2z says:

        I don’t twitter, never have learned anything besides the ability to click on someone’s account to read a post, never followed, or clicked anything related to Twitter otherwise.

        Can someone ‘unfollow’ or delete a follower? Or are you stuck with everyone?

    • Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

      she definitely follows RZJ…. see https://twitter.com/jenna_lauer/following

    • Nef05 says:

      Makes sense. I don’t know much about Twitter, but I do know you don’t have to actually send tweet to be following someone else’s tweets. So the whole “I have 0 tweets” is irrelevant to the question.

  155. disappointed says:

    I am smh and lmao all at once. MOM royally f***ed up! hahaha

  156. disappointed says:

    Will the prosecutor bring this in on the state’s rebuttal if the defense puts on defense?

  157. KA says:

    If she is on the Board for the HOA, would she not have knowledge of complaints about GZ’s tactics? Would she not know about the situation when the guy complained about GZ to the police in the HOA meeting?

    Would that not be relevant?

  158. I bet she come back as a hostile witness.

  159. Judy75201 says:

    I’m proud to say I am blocked by Junior and Richard Hornsby both.

    What’s her twitter?

  160. ic2fools says:

    AhAHAAA!!!! Got your AZZ O’Mara, got your azz back!!!!

    Lauer friended Frank Taaffe Facebook! How dare O’mara object!

    Yep put Dat Niggy TB, Blinky Joe G myspace account in court.

    Show ’em Bernie!

    • elcymoo says:

      I do so want that old MySpace account shown to the jurors.

      • ic2fools says:

        I never had myspace, the ways things are I am about to delete my facebook. I haven’t used it in a very long time.

        Tried twitter too busy for me.

  161. Ms.X says:

    What is attorney Guy’s full name? I want to follow him.

  162. Ms.X says:

    Do you follow Adolph Hitler on facebook? Yes, because hes a neighbor.

    • Judy75201 says:


    • whonoze says:

      She could well have ‘Friended’ FT years ago, via their connection through the HOA. (And, no, I too do NOT trust her, but fair is fair…)

    • type1juve says:


    • Rachael says:

      LOL – seriously though, stuff like that I why I gave up a FB account – never been on twitter and don’t even understand it. But on FB, if people want you to friend them and you don’t it seems to sometimes cause hard feelings – which is fine when it is the niece of a cousin of a friends husband’s second wife’s brother who lives 5 states away, but not always so good if it is your next-door neighbor. And if I lived next door to Adolph Hitler, you better believe I’d be out of that neighborhood sooooooooo fast!!!

    • Trained Observer says:

      Never met him, although I may have run into Eva.

  163. Woow! says:

    Someone please respond to Stutzman twit and tell her to GFHS, I can’t stand that biased biotch.

    Rene Stutzman ‏@renestutzman 2m
    Delightful silliness: Bernie, a self-confessed Twitter idiot, challenges a witness for following #Zimmerman’s bro. She’s tweeted 0 times.

  164. Boyd says:

    I bet she uses twitter and facebook for real estate business

  165. groans says:

    I’m disappointed that Bernie didn’t bring out the fact that more than one voice can be heard – i.e. a deeper, “interrogating” voice at the very beginning of the 911 call recording. I hope he plans to point that out through some other witness. Because that IS easily audible to any untrained ear.

    Probably he didn’t bother raising it with this witness (Jenna), because I bet she would have just said, “I didn’t hear that” and “I don’t hear that.”

    And, apparently the State views her as an unfriendly witness, too, based on the proffers they just made.

  166. whonoze says:

    They said something about a Spanish interpreter. So I’m guessing Selma is next.

  167. breelee says:

    Don’t know if this has been asked, but why was fogen at a HOA meeting when he was a renter, and from what I learned here, a non-paying renter? Aren’t those just for home owners?

    • aussie says:

      I’ve ;been at meetings like that as a renter. It is by invitation usually, for a specific purpose. He had permission to go, to talk to them about setting up a Neighbourhood Watch, which apparently was his idea. He turned out to be the only volunteer, and nobody was interested in becoming block captain.

  168. Boyd says:

    she’s lying about something, I rarely use twitter but I know you have to be reading something to be asked to join in and her facebook too. Since MOM went after Selene , it’s fair to go after her.