Zimmerman’s statements after the shooting are not admissible

Friday, June 21, 2013

Good evening:

Don West filed a written motion this afternoon identifying the defendant’s statements that he claims are admissible pursuant to the res gestae exception to the hearsay rule.

The statements are hearsay and not admissible pursuant to the res gestae or any other exception to the hearsay rule.

Mr. West describes the statements as follows:

Witness 13 and his wife heard a commotion in the back of their townhome. They heard yelling and then heard a shot. Witness 13 grabbed a flashlight and went outside to see what had happened. Within seconds of the shooting, W13 approached Mr. Zimmerman who was staggering, bleeding and breathing hard. The witness observed blood on Mr. Zimmerman’s face and the back of his head consistent with someone having been injured in a fight. Mr. Zimmerman asked W13 if he was bleeding? Witness 13 said “Yes” and W13 asked Mr. Zimmerman what had happened? Mr. Zimmerman told W13 that the other person was “beating me up” and he shot him.

Within a minute or so, Sanford Police Officer Tim Smith arrived on foot at the location where Mr. Zimmerman and W13 were standing. Officer Smith spoke with Mr. Zimmerman at the scene upo his arrival. Mr. Zimmerman acknowledged being the person who fired the shot and that he had a firearm on him. Mr. Zimmerman spontaneously stated that he had yelled for help and that no one helped him.

The defense bases its argument on Alexander v. State, 627 So.2d 35, 43-44 (1st DCA 1993), where the Court stated,

We conclude that the trial court erred in excluding the testimony of witnesses to the shooting that described appellant Alexander’s exclamations and actions immediately after firing the shot that killed the victim. This testimony was admissible under the res gestae rule now codified in sections 90.803(1), (2), and (3), Florida Statutes (1991), which define the conditions for admissibility of (1) spontaneous statements, (2) excited utterances, and (3) then existing mental and emotional conditions of the declarant. The statements about which these witnesses could testify were made almost simultaneously with the act of shooting, a period of time too short to support a finding of fabrication that would destroy the apparent trustworthiness of this evidence. The mere fact that statements are self-serving is not, in and of itself, a sufficient evidentiary basis for their exclusion from evidence. No legal principle excludes statements or conduct of a party solely on the ground that such statements or conduct is self-serving. State v. Johnson, 671 P.2d 215 (Utah 1983); State v. Wallace, 97 Ariz. 296, 399 P.2d 909 (1965); Commonwealth v. Fatalo, 345 Mass. 85, 185 N.E.2d 754 (1962). See also United States v. Dellinger, 472 F.2d 340, 381 (7th Cir.1972), cert. denied, 410 U.S. 970, 93 S.Ct. 1443, 35 L.Ed.2d 706 (1973). While exculpatory statements of the accused generally are excluded from criminal cases because of their hearsay character, 29 Am.Jur.2d Evidence § 621 (1967), the courts of this state have long recognized an exception to this general rule where the statements form a part of the res gestae of the alleged offense. Jenkins v. State, 58 Fla. 62, 50 So. 582 (1909); Lowery v. State, 402 So.2d 1287 (Fla. 5th DCA 1981); Watkins v. State, 342 So.2d 1057 (Fla. 1st DCA), cert. denied, 353 So.2d 680 (Fla. 1977).[2] Furthermore, Florida has followed a liberal rule concerning the admittance of res gestae statements. See Appell v. State, 250 So.2d 318 (Fla. 4th DCA), cert. denied, 257 So.2d 257 (Fla. 1971). Accordingly, we do not see any basis on this record for concluding that this testimony was lacking in apparent trustworthiness and probative value. Thus, we are impelled to conclude that the exclusion of the proffered testimony of res gestae statements in this case was an abuse of discretion and, under the circumstances of this case, cannot be treated as harmless error.

(Emphasis supplied)

Accord: Stiles v. State, 672 So.2d 850 (4th DCA 1996).

Therefore, the critical question for Judge Nelson to decide is whether the statements “form a part of the res gestae of the alleged offense” such that the Court can find that there is no basis to conclude that “the testimony [is] lacking in apparent trustworthiness and probative value.”

Contrary to the defense assertion that “within seconds of the shooting,” the witness saw the defendant “staggering, bleeding and breathing hard,” the evidence will show that the witness described the defendant as “calm and collected” and within a few minutes all of his vital signs were normal when an EMT checked him. Indeed, he was cool, calm and collected.

With the exception of a few minor injuries that did not require stitches, a trip to the ER or even a bandaid, the defendant did not even appear to have been in a fight. Moreover, the only witness who described seeing a fight subsequently retracted that statement.

The evidence also will establish that the terrified death shriek ended when the defendant fired the fatal shot and both of the state’s expert witnesses have excluded the defendant as the person who uttered that haunting scream.

The evidence will show that, at the time he uttered the statements, he knew that the police were on their way and due to arrive any second.

Finally, the evidence will show that, instead of using his cell phone to call 911 for an emergency vehicle and attempting CPR until medical assistance arrived, he mounted Trayvon, placed his hands around his throat and subsequently stood up and had a casual conversation with a neighbor about the type of gun and ammunition he used to shoot Trayvon.

Under these circumstances, unlike the two cases cited by Mr. West, there is no basis for Judge Nelson to conclude that the statements “form a part of the res gestae of the alleged offense” such that the Court can find that there is no basis to conclude that “the testimony [is] lacking in apparent trustworthiness and probative value.” In fact, quite the opposite is true.

Here is Wiki with a little more information on the res gestae exception, in case it remains unclear:

Under the Federal Rules of Evidence, res gestae is an exception to the rule against hearsay evidence based on the belief that, because certain statements are made naturally, spontaneously, and without deliberation during the course of an event, they leave little room for misunderstanding/misinterpretation upon hearing by someone else (i.e., by the witness, who will later repeat the statement to the court) and thus the courts believe that such statements carry a high degree of credibility. Statements that can be admitted into evidence as res gestae fall into three headings:

Words or phrases that either form part of, or explain, a physical act,

Exclamations that are so spontaneous as to belie concoction, and

Statements that are evidence of someone’s state of mind.

The defendant’s statements establish that he was in a full cover-up mode knowing that the police were en route and due to arrive any second.

Therefore, the cases cited by Mr. West do not apply and the defendant’s statements are inadmissible hearsay.


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226 Responses to Zimmerman’s statements after the shooting are not admissible

  1. William Walton says:

    Has anyone given any thought to the fact that the various witnesses may be terrified of GZ because of previous interactions with him? Just a thought after coming to the realization that he appears to be the little no big gestapo of the gated community.

  2. nocamo33 says:

    Question for Prof and Co. How long will the opening arguments be (all day? The morning?) And, when do we get to hear from witnesses?

  3. Not Angela Lansbury says:

    From the motion: “Mr. Zimmerman asked W13 if he was bleeding?”

    Actually, W13 reported the statement as “Is there blood on my face?” That’s the first thing you say after you’ve shot someone in the heart? Seems to me the res gestae argument is destroyed by the defendant’s immediate effort to find justification for the shooting. Add to that the fact that he smeared blood all over this face and head after Ofc Wagner shot that bloody nose photo (at 7:31) and before EMTs reached him (at 7:40), and you see his entire effort after the shooting was to make himself appear more injured than he was. Those bandages the next day were ridiculous.

  4. fauxmccoy says:

    just wondering if anyone else is having difficulty with the notification feature on the dashboard? seems to be out of commission for the past 5 days, since a firefox update, i think.

  5. Tzar says:

    It seems that the futility of their potted-palmism is just dawning on the defense

  6. ladystclaire says:

    This has indeed been a long hard fought battle for Trayvon and his family. what a damn shame that those whose job it is to serve and protect, engage in helping to cover up the cold blooded murder of a child, it’s past time for housekeeping at the SPD. I hope this is exactly what is going to happen when all is said and done. there is a whole lot of people who have lied about the events of this entire case.

    Here we have some of the tenants at RTL lying for this murderer and, I want to know why. have they been threatened by maybe Fogen, Taaffe or Oysterman? why are they lying? in the above video, those places on this persons head, is a carbon copy of how Fogen’s head looked several weeks post murder. who photo shopped that photo and, is it possible for them to be charged with a crime? Obstruction of Justice comes to my mind and, I feel that a lot of people should be slapped with just that because, this is exactly what they all did.

    I hope this photo shopped picture is one of the things that was kept from the public until trial. in other words, I hope the prosecution has had it analyzed and, they have proof that it is a fake. who ever did this should be in a lot of trouble.

    I have never seen so much dishonesty in a murder case/trial as I’m witnessing in this one. a child is gone too soon from this world and, here we have people trying to keep his murderer out of prison and, to hell with the kid because, Fogen is too damn good to be held accountable for this murder. this is the BS that the defense, the dysfunctional family of the murderer, SPD and some of the folks at RTL are saying.

    How can anybody support and sanction the murder of a innocent child? weather Trayvon was 7 or 17, he was still a child, per the laws of this country. he was also a human being by the laws of the creator of us all. he was a child and, he didn’t deserve what happened to him.

  7. amsterdam1234 says:

    Jon was seen rounding the corner and on to the dog walk by 3 witnesses, John, w19 and Mary Cutcher. All three were talking to 911 and were reporting Jon’s arrival between 7:18:15 and 7:18:19. It was about 1 minute and 20 sec after the shot, not seconds.

    Before Jon reached GZ, GZ had already spoken to Selma. According to Selma he had said just call 911.

    Jon said that GZ was talking on the phone when he first saw him and you can see GZ holding his phone at 7:19:07, when Jon took that photo of the back of his head.

    • Malisha says:

      Excited utterance, schmutterance.

      By the time Fogen was talking to Jon, he had his excuse prepared.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        Yep. Or as the prosecution called it ” self- serving hearsay statements made by the defendant”.

  8. Xena says:

    @Professor. Can you write something about the shifting burden of proof when there is an affirmative defense? Thanks.

    • ladystclaire says:

      @Xena, who is the little new attorney with the state and, what is his part in this as to why he was brought on board now? I LIKE him, he really knows his stuff and how to get to West, lol.

      Another thing, how come the media can’t see all of these tactics that the defense is putting down, especially this close to opening statements. West has even gone so far as to try to sneak in something that has not been marked as evidence I don’t think.

      This is what they get for playing with and before their fellow racist for the almighty dollar. and, this is what the racist get for supporting the murderer of a child based solely on this child’s race.

      • Xena says:


        @Xena, who is the little new attorney with the state and, what is his part in this as to why he was brought on board now? I LIKE him, he really knows his stuff and how to get to West, lol.

        With the exception of State’s Attorney Angela Corey, the State’s team consists of Assistant State’s Attorneys.

  9. fauxmccoy says:

    traipsing behind

  10. groans says:

    “‘Wannabe cop,” I think that’s appropriate.”
    ~~Judge Debra Nelson, 6/21/13~~

  11. GrannyStandingforTruth says:

    BTw, is it true that Zimmerman’s father has another daughter name Dawn that he did not support financially, which is supposedly court documented?

    That whole family is crazier than a road lizard. Smh!

  12. Woow! says:

    I missed everything today but I had an opportunity to watch the hearing on youtube a few minutes ago. I had lost faith in JN yesterday but after watching her today my faith has been restored. That women is a beast and I have a tingly feeling she is going to shut defense tactics down during the trial.

    MOM mentioned at the hearing they he and BDL are taking depos this weekend. Does anyone know who is being deposed?

    I read somewhere that RTL settled because they were aware of residents complaints about Fogen and did nothing. Anyone else hear about that?

    Is it me or does JN and Mantie?sp laugh at the defense team under their breath in the court room. I know I saw Mantie grinning during today’s hearing.

    Did W try and sneak in CVs by bundling them with the CV already admitted JN?

    How may of the witnesses and SPD do you think will lie on the stand for Fogman?

    • Malisha says:

      Witnesses and SPD have to be verrrrrrry careful about lying on the stand, now. The feds are still investigating and obviously there are perjury charges available if a liar gets caught. I would say since “Jon the photographer” changed his “MMA” story, most of the witnesses have cottoned onto the idea that they can’t just make up any story and blow smoke all over the place. It’s BUSINESS as if COURT IS IN SESSION in Judge Nelson’s bodega.

      • Xena says:


        “Jon the photographer” changed his “MMA” story, most of the witnesses …

        John is the MMA guy. Jon is the photo guy.

    • Tzar says:

      Is it me or does JN and Mantie?sp laugh at the defense team under their breath in the court room. I know I saw Mantie grinning during today’s hearing.

      Mantai is definitely laughing
      I have no idea how anyone else keeps a straight face and IANAL

  13. GrannyStandingforTruth says:

    Professor Leatherman, after reading today and yesterday’s post , I came to the conclusion that if that’s how West defends his clients as a public defender, no wonder there are many innocent folks in jail. After this trial is over, I might sign up as a volunteer for that prison project that helps those innocent of the crimes they’ve been accused to become free.

    • Malisha says:

      Bravo, Granny. Many of the people wrongly convicted and wrongly imprisoned were arrested by police who were biased and corrupt, prosecuted by prosecutors who specialized in misconduct, and forced into plea deals by public defenders who were part of a corrupt system, and the majority of them treated this way were minorities. Think what would have happened had Trayvon successfully defended himself against Fogen that night and managed to get the gun and turn it on Fogen, saving his own life. Tim Smith would have arrested him and he’d have been charged with Murder-1 by morning. All his protestations about being stalked and attacked would have fallen on deaf ears. He would have gotten a public defender unless his parents were able to throw down $25 K or so on a private lawyer, but even then, he’d have been cornered with the threat of the death sentence and forced to plead out so that he didn’t run the risk of the death sentence. I’m betting the case would not have jumped into the press because nobody would believe the story told by the prisoner’s family — that he was nonviolent and innocent. His claim of self-defense wouldn’t have gotten a guy like West to spend any time or effort on the case When he claimed the shrieks on the tape were HIS, no expert would be hired to back that up. His mother or father saying, “absolutely that’s my son screaming” would not have been listened to for even a minute. And he wouldn’t have been even given the chance to have a voice stress test. No butterfly bandaids, no due process, not a snowball’s chance in Hell.

      • ladystclaire says:

        AND HE WOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO BOND OUT OF JAIL TWICE! He may not have even got bail once. the laws in this country are stacked against minorities and poor whites. this is the truth and we all know it is.

        Trayvon would have never received the kind of treatment that Fogen received that night. he would have NEVER been permitted to go home and sleep in his own bed that night.

    • ladystclaire says:

      Btw, from one G’ma to another, I like the way you think.

  14. Malisha says:

    Even LONGER than “after trial” — HE said “until after acquittal” — this is commonly referred to as “infinity out there way way far away after the end of time and all like that and THEN even longer because you have to wait in a long line of impossibles getting their lottery winnings” or, as the physicists say:


    (Beyonce may have said it better.)

  15. Xena says:

    Something before I retire for the night. Goodbye, Junior.

    • My Forehead Tho says:

      I think Jr., like his father, knew all along that George Zimmerman was guilty. I believe his job since last year was to taint potential jurors with false narratives, beg for donations and hope for the best. Now that the jury is selected, he is no longer necessary.

      Lol, I might be way off, but I don’t see any other reason why he would stop doing interviews and tweeting about the case now that the trial has officially started. It appears to me that he knows everything will come out in court, and he doesn’t want to face it.

      • Jun says:

        Yep, Robbie the Racist’s part in the money schemes shall be coming out too

        At least the truth will finally come out

        It’s been a long hard fight

        Now it’s time for the final round

        What I dont get is why allegedly the jury is whom the defense wanted yet they dont want to have the trial yet?

      • Xena says:

        @My Forehead

        I think Jr., like his father, knew all along that George Zimmerman was guilty.

        Of course. Their argument all along is that GZ should not have been arrested because he (they, the family) are superior to others and should be allowed to do what they want, and believed without question.

        I believe his job since last year was to taint potential jurors with false narratives, beg for donations and hope for the best. Now that the jury is selected, he is no longer necessary.

        While including the above, Junior has the general bully mentality that all his other actions derive from. Essentially, he entered the public arena to intimidate those disagreeing with him into silence.

    • Rachael says:


  16. Tzar says:

    You ever get the feeling that the defense is making shit up as the go along, their strategic replies have developed like a story being told by a 5 year old,

    “And then we submit his self-defense claims into evidence, then sit back and let the state make a fool of themselves and then we can throw a big party with the NBC money, oh wait we can’t do that? oh wait, I remember…what if he claimed self defense during the fight and by during we mean afterwards and so since it was during, we will submit them and then Zimmerman will be released …..right? and we lived happily ever after?”

    • Malisha says:

      Right, Tzar, but don’t forget:

      “and then we sue those schemers and get millions of dollars and then Shellie and Tuggy-poo have a great life and nobody ever questions their credibility again because they’re decent Americans.”

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Sounds about right, Tzar. I’m surprised Fogen could even find attorneys willing to do all the stuff OM and West have done.

    • cielo62 says:

      Tzar- well, that’s the Outhouse version at any rate.


  17. Leisa says:

    After hearing Mom say that “this was the defense’s case” and hearing JN say it was all inadmissable, I realize he has nothing and he knows it. The best he can do it use lots of bells and whistles and maybe a few meltdowns from West, but at the end of the day, there is nothing.

  18. Tzar says:

    Contrary to the defense assertion that “within seconds of the shooting,” the witness saw the defendant “staggering, bleeding and breathing hard,” the evidence will show that the witness described the defendant as “calm and collected” and within a few minutes all of his vital signs were normal when an EMT checked him. Indeed, he was cool, calm and collected.

    Where I’m from West would be referred to, and this is the technical term, “a dirty stinking liar”, so why does he not get in trouble for this?

  19. Leisa says:

    One last witness #13 conspiracy theory then I’ll shut up.

  20. Sophia33 says:

    I want to thank the Professor, Willis and Cielo for taking the time to explain this to me. Math and science I get. The law? Not so much.

    • Sophia33 says:

      I might not be a legal expert, but I do have enough sense not to stalk someone, start a fight and shoot them.

  21. IMback says:

    Wasn’t witness 13 talking to his wife whike she was on the phone with 911? On that call we heard the gunshot and witness 13 was still in the house with his wife.

  22. Who says:

    The very first words spoken by Zimmerman after the killing were “just call 911” matter of factly to Cutcher & roommate, then his next words were to W13, and according to the interview done by Seriono less than an hour after GZ was taken to the station was:

    “arr, I got blood on my face?”

    Most bizarre statement to make after killing a human being.

  23. Leisa says:

    I saw a good one. Zimmerman got out of jail on $1million bond, paid for by men in white hoodies.

  24. PiranhaMom says:

    @Professor Fred,

    When Jon W13 testifies, couldn’t Bernie ask him, “Did you photograph the defendant on your cell-phone? Did you ask his permission to do so? Why not?” (“Because he asked me to take the picture”)

    “Did you notice blood on the back of defendant’s head? Was it smeared? Did you notice blood on he sides of defendant’s cheeks> Was it smeared? Did you later give these photos to the FDLE?”

  25. My Forehead Tho says:

    Anybody have a prediction on how long this trial is going to be? I know JN is a straightforward no-nonsense judge, so I don’t expect this trial to take as long as Aries’.

    • cielo62 says:

      Forehead- I’ve heard everything from 2 weeks to a month. I’m more inclined to believe the 2 week mark just because the defense has nothing to present.


    • Trained Observer says:

      I’m thinking at least a month, plus deliberations.

      Court won’t be in session on July 4th, and possibly not July 5th. JN mentioned activities are being planned for jurors and alts. Good thing Central Florida is loaded with a gazillion attractions. Any malignant forces trying to penetrate sequestration barriers would have difficulty figuring out which one.

      • ladystclaire says:

        I hope they don’t turn out to be like the Pinellas pinheads of the Casey Anthony trial. that jury didn’t really want to be there in the first place, especially at that time of year.

    • Trained Observer says:

      ceilo62 — When has the defense not having anything to present ever stopped West from going on and on and on? 🙂

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        Leave it to West to ask the same question in 10 different ways. I think he will piss off the jury. They are sitting in that hotel without their family, and some of them are losing income every hour he continues to talk.

    • Christopher Charles says:

      I think the trial should last, at most, a couple of days. All fogen’s team need do is present their evidence, the prosecution can rest, the Judge can give the case to the jury, and in a matter of minutes the jurors will return a GUILTY verdict.

      The guiltless do not behavior as do those associated with fogen. If fogen story(ies) are true, there would be no need to demonize TRAYVON.

      fogen has severe Karma to pay: He violated an Universal Law- Thou Shalt Not Kill. His Karma is intensified by the lies, the negativity, the deceit, the profiteering. He’s in BIG trouble as are those who uphold his murder of a 17 year old young man and his lies about the reasons Trayon was killed.

      I have absolutely no respect for fogen, his family, his defense team, his benefactors. They have not a clue about thought, speech, and action and the Karma they create.

      I end with PRISON for fogen. However, the truth is: fogen is already in prison. If he wasn’t, he wouldn’t be trying so hard to get out!

  26. Nef05 says:

    Bill Maher New Rule:
    “Now that Zimmerman has put on so much weight, the prosecution must explore the possibility that he killed Trayvon for his skittles.”

    • ZCBest says:


    • Girlp says:

      I luv him

    • Soulcatcher says:

      He already knew on his way to Target for their weekly grocery shopping, there was going to be no goodies that week, top ramin and kool-aide for the week, cause there was only 16 buckaroo’s in the checking account.

      • Soulcatcher says:

        I was just explaining to Mr. Soulcather Foggen said he was on his way to Target for his weekly grocery shopping and his comment was, yeah right, he was on his way to Target practice.

      • ladystclaire says:

        This Thug and his wife, lived beyond their means and I wonder how did they afford to even rent there. I wouldn’t think that his rent was less than say $700.00 a month. he didn’t half pay the rent but, he still had a place in a complex where he did not want paying/owner AA families to live.

        He wanted them out of that neighborhood so bad, to the point that he and the town drunk Taaffe, devised a reason that they thought would more than likely, see them moving out of RTL. why else was he following these people to their homes, he was harassing them to the point that they would get tired of it and move.

        • Xena says:


          I wouldn’t think that his rent was less than say $700.00 a month.

          $945.00 a month, IIRC.

    • Sophia33 says:

      That was good.

      • Nef05 says:

        It was. There was suddenly there was a picture of a very large fogen on the screen, and I thought he was going to say something about the trial, maybe about profiling or something. And then he totally took a hard left. I never saw it coming.

    • Malisha says:

      No No Nooooooo — those skittles are all different COLORS so that would mean he is NOT A RACST!

      • Soulcatcher says:

        Malisha, You might be right, but then again, didn’t he consider himself white, and after the fact, he then stated he was Hispanic, and thru in the Afro Peruvian into the mix?

      • Nef05 says:

        So far, he’s been all different colors, too. Could we possibly see a “skittles” defense? 🙂

  27. Jun says:

    I’d straight up tell the court that everything Omara has used in the media is hearsay in the courtroom, and can not be weighed, until it is submitted under oath and cross examination to verify authenticity because if Omara does not submit anything at trial, it will be easy to weed out whom is trying to weigh the issue with hearsay

    Anyways, i agree he is a sleezeball, he whines about not having a fair trial, while being unfair to the dead kid with Skittles

    I got to give it to Sybrina for being so strong and enduring so much hate from Omara and Fogen and that her faith is so strong

  28. Jun says:

    I could be wrong but it’s not res gestae because he made those statements after killing the kid, within minutes afterward, therefore, it was not during the course of the event, and is not spontaneous, because he was seen after murdering the kid, walking around thinking, therefore his statements afterward are not spontaneous but plotted

    Correct me if I am wrong

      • gbrbsb says:

        Professor, BDLR told JN at today’s hearing that there were “8 different res gestae exceptions” and the defence hadn’t “cited which specific one they want to rely on”. Apart from the “excited utterance” exception being discussed, which are the other 7 and could one of them be the one the defence is going to try to rely on ?

    • Leisa says:

      Not to be crude but I recall reading something that he said “I fucked up” to someone? Was this Jon was well. Seems like so long since I read all of the statements.

      • type1juve says:

        If that’s true that may be the only true thing he’s said other than “I shot him.”

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Leisa, I don’t know if he made that statement but, it could very well be that he did because, Jon is the one that he asked to help him cover this up. hence: Jon lying about Trayvon raining down blows MMA style on Fogen. I don’t know what made him tell the truth about not being able to really see who was on top and who was screaming for help but, he lied for his friend in the very beginning just as he was asked to do.

        Yes, he did indeed fucked up and, he has got to pay for robbing this kid of his life. BTW, I still believe he and Taaffe were the ones stealing from their neighbors and, fencing the goods out of state.

      • Nef05 says:

        Just so you don’t get them confused when they testify next week, W6 (MMA) is John. W13 (flashlight, pictures, wife calling) is Jon. So there’s two of them the prosecution will be asking some very hard questions. There’s a Jeremy, too, and I can’t remember his number for anything. It’s like a freaking game of “Who’s on First” with these people.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        Jeremy is w20. Screamin Jay on bcclist, took on this enormous task, to transcribe all the witness statements.

        That is my go to place everytime I need to check a witness statement. Also makes it a lot easier if I need a quote.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Nef05, Thank you for helping me know whose on first and whose on second and, I don’t give a damn about whose on third. LOL, just a little bit of humor to get us through the weekend. I know we are all anxiously awaiting the prosecutions opening statements and, cheering Bernie, John Guy and the new SA on to getting a step closer to achieving Justice for Trayvon.

        BTW, have you heard from Kindheart lately? it seems that so many good people left HP after the owners allowed that site to be taken over by those supporting a murderer. there is another lady but, I can’t recall her name on HP but, she works as dispatch for a trucking co. yes, a lot of good people have left that site. I believe the owners are getting something out of allowing the racist pigs, to take over that site.

  29. Jun says:

    It should be an easy ruling. It’s complete hearsay.

  30. LLMPapa says:

    The statements are hearsay and not admissible pursuant to the res gestae or any other exception to the hearsay rule.

    But…but…what about “I thought my widdle head was gonna expode”?

    • Soulcatcher says:

      And then poor widdle wobbie would have had to spoon feed him and change his shitty diapers diapers for the west of his life. Waa, Waa,Waa, don’t cry wobbie, that’s what his wife would have to do. For better or worse till death do you part, right SheL Lie?

    • Here is the best review of Papi’s Literary work…

      “Florida v. Zimmerman: Uncovering the Malicious Prosecution of my Son, George is nothing but a pathetic attempt to taint the jury pool from a desperate father who can’t face the truth that his son profiled Trayvon Martin, hunted him down after Trayvon ran from him, shot him directly in the heart and murdered him.

      Robert Zimmerman had no right releasing this book on the EVE of TRIAL accusing the parents or their attorneys representing a murdered kid of “scheming” or calling them the “scheme team”. He had no right accusing the State of Florida of “malicious prosecution” on the EVE OF TRIAL when his son will be judged by a jury of his own peers. If he wanted to write this book and release it after the verdict was reached I would have no problem with it. This is a desperate attempt to taint the jury pool just as George’s defense attorney, Mark O’Mara has attempted when he LIED directly to the court about so-called evidence against Trayvon Martin. Mark O’Mara accused, in open court that Trayvon’s buddies beat up a homeless man and Trayvon video taped it. Not only was it a lie that Trayvon’s buddies were beating up a homeless man, the men that were fighting were NOT even homeless. Every legal mind this country condemned Attorney Mark O’Mara for his reckless and UNETHICAL behavior when he lied directly to the judge on national television with his “manufactured” lies about Trayvon and his buddies. Robert Zimmerman Sr and his son’s attorney are two desperate individuals because there is no defense for an unjust murder of Trayvon Martin.

      This father of George is a COWARD who refuses to show his face and face his critics about this book full of untruths, arrogance and lies. Robert Zimmerman Sr has never stepped a foot in any hearing in support of his son George other than the hearing to post bail AGAIN for his son when George was rearrested for lying to the court about his donations/finances. The only time Robert Zimmerman showed his cowardly face is when the court allowed George a new bail hearing. George Zimmerman, Roberts daughter-in-law, Shellie Zimmerman, lied directly to the court, hid and tried to embezzle over 100K of donors contributions and were caught on jailhouse tapes planning their theft. On the stand and in a courtroom was the only time this coward has shown his face and spoke publicly. And don’t even go there with the “death threat” BS, Trayvon’s family receives death threats and threats in general, daily. The Zimmerman’s have security and there is no reason for this cowardly person and his book to be released on the eve of trial and Robert Zimmerman HIDE and refuse to face his critics.

      Robert Zimmerman Sr is a retired Magistrate from Virginia and knows the law and what DUE PROCESS is. His son is getting his Due Process and will be judged by a jury of his peers. That is NOT “malicious prosecution”!

      By the way Robert, you coward, Trayvon’s parents have never spoken ill of you or your wife nor has their attorneys for that matter. You are despicable.

      As far as Robert Zimmerman’s son George, he conveniently leaves out his son’s arrests, his violent and abusive past in what he claims is the “truth” in this book…

      George Zimmerman assaulted a female officer of the law, was arrested and ordered to alcohol and anger management classes by the court instead of going to prison..

      George Zimmerman smacked his ex fiance, kicked her dog and ended up with a restraining order.

      George Zimmerman allegedly molested his female cousin for ten years from the age of six until she was sixteen. Her sworn statement is in the evidence. She also speaks about how this family only embraces blacks if they “act white”.

      George Zimmerman lied to the very court who is trying him for murder about defense donations (100k) he and his wife tried to embezzle. These conversations between George and Shellie Zimmerman were all caught on the jailhouse tapes while GZ was first arrested and in jail. Shellie Zimmerman was then arrested and charged with perjury and she faces her own trial later this year.

      George, while working at a company called CarMax, relentlessly harassed a Muslim co-worker and he was later fired from that job.

      George, while employed by “Whore Productions” at a night club, he threw a female patron across the room and he sent her to the hospital for her injuries.

      I can continue with even more of George Zimmerman’s past that proves he is nothing but an abusive, controlling, violent bastard who hunted down an innocent kid just walking home from the store talking with his friend. Trayvon Martin ended up being shot in the heart by George Zimmerman’s paranoid, reckless, irrational and lunatic behavior.

      Zimmerman had no business stalking a kid in his truck who wasn’t “walking fast enough” for his liking. George Zimmerman had no right to exit his vehicle, and tell dispatch, “Shiiit he is running and the A-Holes always get away” and chase this kid down that ran from him!

  31. Judy75201 says:

    If you had been sucker-punched in the nose (with it being broken [lol]) and had your head banged into the pavement until you thought it would explode [lol2], would your first question be, “Am I bleeding?” Would your speech not be effected (i.e., blood flowing down your throat). Would all of these injuries miraculously heal in time for the pics/video at the police station? Would you refuse medical care?

    What evidence is on the butt of that gun of Fogens?

    • Girlp says:

      I don’t think you would have a question I think you’d be in the hospital with serious head injuries; maybe 5 weeks later you’d have a question.

    • ladystclaire says:

      @Judy, hopefully they tested his firearm just for that, evidence. take a look at the horseshoe impression on his head because, concrete does not leave any impressions of any kind, so, I hope they tested the butt of his gun for skin cells or blood from Fogen himself.

      Whose to say that he didn’t have W13 hit him in the the head, while they were out of sight of the others before LE arrived. maybe this is the source of the red matter on the garage door casing.

    • KittySP says:

      just like during his interview that night with Singleton, and she asked if he needed to go to the hosp…he said he didn’t know, they(EMTs) didn’t say he needed to. why wouldn’t you insist on medical treatment at hosp knowing you’d just been beaten to within an inch of your life?

      • nocamo33 says:

        When I was a teen, I got into numerous brawls, broken nose, stabbed all that fun stuff. I always went to ER when there was significant trauma to my face and head. It was common sense. The nonsense that he didn’t go for financial reasons and the fact that his fans eat that crap up…. boils my blood. Makes me really wonder about these people. I am too young to have been there, ,but I can’t help but recall to mind in light of all this that there were sooooo many good Americans that participated in, witnessed, initiated, celebrated the lynchings of many innocent black men. Back then no pretext was needed (marijuana smoking, suspensions from school, etc.). What happened to those people. Did they get charged with accessory to murder? Did they renounce their evil ways? No. My point is that hatred, murder and evil has permeated our society. Every now and then, it rears its head. It wants to rise up and live (like a raging fire), but it must be tamped down.

      • cielo62 says:

        KittySP~ Because he’s SUPER WATCH MAN! Protector of the Weak and Vulnerable! IMPERVIOUS to head bashings, nose smotherings and MMA face crashings! SUPER HERO George is here to save the day!


  32. Nef05 says:

    Prof – is this another one of those instances where the statements in the motion have to be regarded as “truthful” on their face or “fact”? Because as Mary Cutcher and her roommate stated, they saw fogen when he was still on top of Trayvon, which belies the defense claim of seconds, because they describe the frisking, then the walk around Trayvon with hands to the head (figuring out his story), telling them to “just call 911” before there is any conversation with W13 (who didn’t even see fogen until he was at the “T” according to his statement). Add to that all the things that you and the others have mentioned and it pushes the timeline even further away from the murder.

    So does the judge have to make a ruling based on the premise that what the defense has represented is truth, instead of the out and out lie that it is; or can the prosecution argue that the defense is “mischaracterizing” events? If so, why can they make that argument in this motion when we’ve seen other motions in the past that had to be accepted as truthful on their face?

  33. Tee says:

    I think They don’t want to put Fogen on the stand and to accomplish that they must be able to use this statement.

  34. Ambersus says:

    Just curious. Why does it take so long for the judge to make a decision on the ruling of the voice expert testimony? Does it mean that she may rule against the state because she did not make an immediate decision?

  35. I neglected to mention that West should have quoted from W13’s deposition rather than summarizing what he supposedly said.

  36. Aside from West’s motion, is that what W13 is actually going to say? Because if so, the soliloquy is completely fabricated. It doesn’t match anything else at all.

    Am I bleeding…


    • Leisa says:

      I don’t understand why that man as a witness, was permitted to stand among the group of police officers doing whatever it is they were doing with their clipboards for hours after the shooting. He was the Asian man who got a plastic bag for Officer Raimondo as well. Something not right with this.

    • towerflower says:

      Why would he ask if he was bleeding? In that one video taped interview prior to his test he told the detective he couldn’t make out who stepped out of their home because his eyes had filled with blood. So if you know you have blood that filled your eyes why ask if you are bleeding?

  37. Girlp says:

    It’s clear the defense has nothing.

    • type1juve says:

      Not only that, I think the state must have some very incriminating evidence that hasn’t been shared with the public. Why else would they be begging for a delay and running around like chickens with their heads cut off? That’s why they invested so much money in the jury consultant while crying broke at the same time. They have nothing and they know Fogen is GUILTY!

      • Girlp says:

        Racer say’s they do have extremly damaging evidence, the State has evidence that has not been released to the public some of which O’Mara agreed to keep sealed because it’s prejudical to his client (then of course he pulled that shit when it came to Trayvon). I am praying this jury gets it right. I agree it seems their only defense is to file motions attempting to prevent the state from presenting it’s case. I don’t see how they can keep porky off the stand.

      • ladystclaire says:

        More than that, Fogen himself knows he’s guilty right along with the rest of the Adams family. this is why Robbie the Racist Jr and Sr are pulling the stunts that they have been pulling. they continue to vilify this child victim.

        JoohYah had better be worried about his own criminal involvement of money laundering. the same goes for Grace. they should be looking at some prison time as well. BTW, were is sister Dawn Zimmerman or is she an outside child of Robbie the Racist Sr?

      • Nellie Nell says:

        I certainly agree that there is some pretty strong evidence that the state has that we have not seen. The thread before this one linked to a slew of documents, in those documents is a report from Sprint with phone records and detailed reports about the records. I could not figure out whose phone it is from (assume Fogen’s) which also explains why BDLR asked if there were anyone PJ’s that consider themselves knowledgeable with cell phones.

        I am so sick of the slob of defendants and even the jury specialist pissed me off sitting there. There is no defense and they all know it. Try as you might, but Trayvon will have his very last words!


      • William Walton says:

        That could be why West is in the shape he is in. I think West was convinced by Omara to join the team and that even though they would not get paid for defending GZ look at the book possibilities. West you could retire and live like a King, However, once West got involved in the case, realization came very quickly that GZ was guilty and West was the one who had to pull this one off even though it was a losing proposition.

    • racerrodig says:

      Exactly…where are all these blockbusters Sundance Crackpot kept telling us about. What about all of his “…I just got off the phone…” crap??

      And Robbie the Racist telling us the fear they live in from all these “threats” how about some proof of this……….loser. I can see Bernie just chewing him up and spitting his carcass out the window.

  38. Tee says:

    I don’t know how the defense could even write that motion, or how the media believe that he said this spontaneously.CRAZY! This is so simple that I’m smh just thinking about it. He only said that because he knew that Trayvon was yelling for help, so since ” dead men tell no tales” he claimed them as his own because he knew that others heard the screaming. Children do the same thing all the time, why the hell do they think that this fool wouldn’t or didn’t have enough time to think of this. He had enough time to frisk Trayvon after he shot him “cop move”, he had enough time to get his picture taken, he had enough time to make a phone call and he had enough time to talk about his gun and ammo. Why do they think that we are stupid? Asses!

    • Spontaneous, like in, after he sat on top of Trayvon and felt him up?


    • Malisha says:

      Hey if that stuff is res gestae, I don’t mind killing somebody and then running around a few minutes later telling dozens of people, “Hey I just defended myself from a death threat and I had to kill the guy and I was screaming for help!” and then it will just go down as self-defense because I’ll be real excited when I utter those utterances.

    • Xena says:

      @Leisa. That is funny, funny, funny.

    • cielo62 says:

      Leisa~ It’s disgusting that 76 people actually bought that piece of drivel.


      • Leisa says:

        I was showing the re-made version of his book. Just wanted to be sure you knew I would not link to the actual thing. Ugh! Bet the man who did not make jury bought it since he donated $20.00 to his kid, what’s another few bucks! Dad is as disgusting as the spawn.

        • cielo62 says:

          Leisa~ MY BAD! I hadn’t noticed that! I like THIS cover MUCH BETTER! 🙂 Thanks for putting it up! (I wonder how they did that?)


      • Leisa says:

        I think he is going to need more than $250.00 to keep him in food and housing while he hides from all of the death threats. Honest to Pete. What are these people going to do when the well runs dry? We know Shellie had not been employed for about 4 years. What a sorry family.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Leisa, where do you think the evil one learned his craft? at his father’s knee of course. this is why his father always got him out of the crimes that he committed. his father is responsible for him never being held accountable for his wrong doings.

      • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

        Nope, 76 people did not buy that book. If you read the comments with the 5 stars they are actually written by the same people. Their writing style gives them away.

    • towerflower says:

      Cielo……76 people left a review of which 36 only gave it 1 star, the lowest rating. It’s literally a pro TM or pro Z debate going on there.

    • ladystclaire says:

      It is quite funny and, I got a real kick out of the negative reviews this so called book has received. I was so glad to read, how one person stated that the parents of Trayvon has NEVER said not one harsh thing about the family of the murderer of their son. the family of Fogen has done just that to Trayvon’s parents/family.

      This just goes to show how CLASSLESS and, DYSFUNCTIONAL the family of Fogen is. I’m saying it again, there has NEVER been a family of a murder defendant, who has acted IGNORANT like this murderer’s family has done.

      These people blame everybody else except themselves as well as their son, for his short comings and his crimes as well. they created this monster and made him the POS that he is today, by always running interference for him each and every time, he got in trouble with the law.

      This is why IMO, that they are acting out in the manner which they have been doing from day one. they couldn’t find anybody in LE after Angela Corey took over this case, to just make it go away. no, not this time Fogen Sr. your THUGGISH son is getting what he should have received years ago and that is, being held accountable for his CRIME with out his father trying to call in favors in order to get him out of this one.

      Fogen himself always got away thanks to his meddling father.

    • Sophia33 says:

      That is crazy. And people have really , really long critiques of the book.

    • nocamo33 says:

      Funny and somewhat disturbing: One reviewer says, “This short book documents the harrowing story and experiences of the Zimmerman family since the Media-inspired “justice” system lynching of the author’s son, George”. Seriously? This kind of garbage makes me really want to see Zimmerman get pounded into the dirt (figuratively speaking). He is responsible for all of the negative fallout that results from his refusal to tell the truth. From Trayvon’s family’s pain to the widening chasm between races. Zimmerman is guilty of so much more than murder.

  39. Rachael says:

    Where has Colin been? (is that his name? I’m so bad at names)

  40. Good point from @willisnewton on previous thread:

    “Was his discussion of what caliber his pistol was also an “excited utterance?”

    • That’s a great point!

    • Trained Observer says:

      A 17-year-old boy lies dead on the grass with a teardrop on his face … and, as willisnewton highlights, here’s Fogen acting like he’s giving a “how I scored” interview to Guns & Ammo.

      • hotheadpaisen says:

        But isn’t that just a bizarre question for that witness to have asked? “Did you use a nine or 40?” There’s just something really wrong with ~that~ being the question he needed to ask.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Yes. The witness’s speech and behavior is as bizarre as Fogen’s. As if he’d just been hunting.

      • Tzar says:

        hotheadpaisen says:
        June 21, 2013 at 10:43 pm

        But isn’t that just a bizarre question for that witness to have asked? “Did you use a nine or 40?” There’s just something really wrong with ~that~ being the question he needed to ask.

        think hard, it’s not bizarre if you accept it for what it is
        they are talking about the killing as if the victim was game.
        It’s a way of dehumanizing the victim and it’s a way of expressing their disposition towards the victim. Think hard and you will know why they do that and you will call it what it is.

      • nocamo33 says:

        In response to Tzar, good point. Not to assume anything, but I can see that type of callousness expressed if the convo also included “yeah, I saw this thug trying to burglarize and caught up to him, yada, yada, yada….”

      • Malisha says:

        Did he “use” this bullet or that bullet.


        “By what method did you take care of this little problem?”
        It’s like, “What do YOU use to take stains out of wool?”

  41. whonoze says:

    W18’s 911 call establishes that it was considerably more than “within seconds” from the shooting that W13 arrived. W18 and Selma esstablish that he was under normal motor control at the time, not “staggering.” Such BS, basing a motion on claims not in evidence…

    • Leisa says:

      I will look for where it’s written but, Officer Smith did not arrive and ask who shot this guy until 7:19 and can’t recall number of seconds. He pulled in at 7:17 and witness saw him from window and he then drove around to Retreat View Circle. He was not there within seconds or even minutes of shooting.

      • Sleuth says:


        Ofc. Timothy Smith’s last 3 visits to RATL, including the night of 2/26/12, were in response to calls by to 911 or NEN by the confessed murderer which tells us he was familiar with the gated community.

        IOW, Ofc. Smith’s delay in getting to the murder scene gives me the impression that his delay was no coincedence.

    • Nef05 says:

      Selma! That’s right. I forgot her name and referred to her as Mary’s roommate, when I basically asked a question based partly on what you have posted. Should have read the comments first.

    • willisnewton says:

      Also his alleged “excited utterance” to W13 came AFTER he made a phone call!!!

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        Exactly. And after he told Selma to just call the police. Jon didn’t make to the T until about 7:18:15.

      • Elizabeth says:

        So he told one witness to “just call the police”and another to “don’t call I allready called”?
        I am allways wondering if the police ever did call him “when they
        get here”and whas his phone on vibrate or ringtone?

  42. Hothead Paisen says:

    Regarding Zimmerman’s Condition and actions he took after the shooting , he was quite clear in his interrogations that when he saw the officer approaching …(well in one of his versions anyway – was it on Hannity?)he stated that when he saw the officer approaching he immediately put his hands on his head, aAnd turned his back to the officer, told the officer where his weapon was. he clearly had a good understanding of how NOT to not be shot by police officer. whether this was something Osterman taught him or something he picked up elsewhere, I don’t know, but I doubt very much that it’s the first thing an innocent and hysterical person would do. His first action after shooting the kid was to leap on top of the body and search for anything he could claim was a weapon. He then calmly had a conversation about his weapon -which I think is quite a bizarre question for the witness to have asked in the first place -and then he behaved exactly as he knew he should have to not be shot by the cops. To assert that he was dazed or bewilldered or confused or stunned is ridiculous. he knew exactly what to do. he was in full control of his actions and his words and at least as much mental capacity as he has ever displayed.

    • Sleuth says:

      In the re-enactment video he told Serino the same thing, and said, “he was in fear of his life thinking the officer (Timothy Smith) was going to kill him”, who by the way, was known to him.

      Now he’s in fear of being shot by someone “known” to him. But the defense wants to the jury to believe Trayvon WAS NOT in a state of fear of a person NOT KNOWN to him as he probably saw this wannabe ganster/mobster/thug pointing a gun at him.

  43. Rachael says:

    Wasn’t there also the witness who said that when he asked him to call his wife he acted as if it were not big deal (I might be getting two things mixed up here – it might not have had anything to do with calling his wife, but I know someone said he spoke as if it was no big deal).

    • Xena says:

      @Rachael. That would be Jon, the same one who took the photo of the back of GZ’s head.

      • Leisa says:

        This is also owner of home with mysterious red mark on garage door frame.

        • Xena says:

          @Leisa. Yep. Same Jon. I can’t put it all together but something stays with me consistently, which is why he felt comfortable coming outside after hearing a gunshot, with nothing more than a flashlight and a cell phone?

      • Leisa says:

        I still think this guy automatically jumped in to help Fogen restrain this guy, also explains descriptions of guy in t shirt on Trayvon. Had to run in to wash blood off his hands…… You never know.

      • Leisa says:

        He is Asian man in t-shirt among the police officers that night and is on video from a local tv station. I mentioned him further down here too. Makes my antenna wiggle.

      • Sleuth says:

        Or Jonny boy bust him upside his big azz head in order to get him off of Trayvon.

        Just meditate on his bullshyte line:

        “I yelled for HELP, but NOBODY (hint: is Jon) WOULD come and HELP ME” (remember, it’s all about him).

        And in the so called re-enactment video, as he states this same bullshyte as he turns slightly backwards, and points in the direction of Jon’s back door/patio door.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        There are 5 witnesses that saw Jon arrive, three of them were talking to 911 at the time and we can hear them tell the dispatchers. W18 saw him first, because she could see Jon entering the cut- through from RVC. Jon didn’t make it to GZ until about 7:18:20, the shot was fired at 7:16:56.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        Correction 4 of them reported it to 911, when Jon arrived.

    • type1juve says:

      Rachael, I remember that too. He said something like “just tell my wife I shot someone”, as if the fact that he just murdered someone doesn’t matter.

      • hotheadpaisen says:

        Yes, that’s the same witness- #13. he is the same individual who took the iPhone pictures of the back of Zimmerman’s head, and one of Trayvon on the ground. He “forgot” to mention those pics to Serino when questioned an hour after the shooting. He “remembered” them when interviewed by FDLE 3 weeks later, And gave them copies but Stated he had deleted them from his phone (and I believe deleted from hard drive as well) And speaking of that photograph-the one showing the blood trails on the back of Zimmerman’s head-many have suggested it looked like GZ was holding a phone in his right hand. I never really considered that seriously until I reread Witness 13 statements to FDL E and a state attorneys office. He tolm them that he came around the corner and shined a flashlight on Zimmerman. he stated ” I think he was on the phone…becaues it sounded like he was on the phone.” (He did not mention that to Serino either) At some point we will hear who George called that night-if anyone right??? RIGHT???

      • Sleuth says:

        Still wondering why the FDLE and the SAO investigators did not ask him how he got his wife’s telephone number, and how did he know who she was.

      • ladystclaire says:

        I agree with the professor that Fogen called W6, and told him what to say. who ever wrote the rest of his script, had better keep their day job if they still have one. BTW, where is Oysterman, we haven’t heard a peep out of him since Dr.Phil and, the books he gave to the audience for free and most of them left them in their seats.

        Lol, he couldn’t even give that thing away!

      • amsterdam1234 says:


        I agree with you that someone talked to w6 before he spoke with Serino that evening.

        John’s call to 911 was connected at 7:17:15. He tells the dispatcher around 7:18:15 that he sees someone arriving with a flashlight a second before w19 sees the flaslight and about 3 sec before Mary reports seeing someone with a flashlight.
        He got off the phone with 911, just seconds before Jon took the picture of the back of GZ’s head. GZ couldn’t have been on the phone with John.

        John’s first interview with Serino, was outside on that same evening. Serino didn’t get to the scene until 8:08 pm.
        GZ sat in Smith’s car, with his feet outside of the car, for at least 10 minutes before the emt’s got to him.

        Mark Osterman, told the investigators that he didn’t speak in depth with GZ, when GZ was sitting in that police car. Smith allowed people to approach GZ and talk with him, before they left for the police station.

        What I would like to see and hear, are the recordings from the dash cams.

      • nocamo33 says:

        Almost childlike, not fulling grasping the gravity of taking a life.

      • Nellie Nell says:

        In reference to the 1st LLMPapa video above, what has always puzzled me and even more now is in that re-enactment the killer describes how he put his hands up and raised his shirt to expose his weapon, but never mentions the jacket. I still do not believe that he was wearing that jacket at the time. Not only does someone see a person in a white shirt on top (think the shirt he had on looked much lighter in the dark), but there is another HOA lady that said he was sitting in the police car wearing a white shirt as the killer “rolled his eyes at me”. That also explains why there was no residue on the jacket.

        That entire investigation was a big freaking mess.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        He is so full of shit. Did you notice that in his first interview with Singleton, he said he shot Trayvon while his head was banged into the ground, and in the vst he said he shot him him while Trayvon was smothering him.

        In the Singleton interview, he holsters his gun before het gets on top of Trayvon.

      • LLMPapa says:

        amsterdam1234 says:
        June 22, 2013 at 6:45 am

        He is so full of shit. Did you notice that in his first interview with Singleton, he said he shot Trayvon while his head was banged into the ground, and in the vst he said he shot him him while Trayvon was smothering him.

        In the Singleton interview, he holsters his gun before het gets on top of Trayvon.

        LOL, one of my vids is on the conflicting “smothering” vs “head banging” versions.

        As to when his gun supposedly went back into the holster, W6 says GZ told the officer “My gun is on the ground”!

      • LLMPapa says:

        amsterdam1234 says:
        June 22, 2013 at 6:45 am

        He is so full of shit. Did you notice that in his first interview with Singleton, he said he shot Trayvon while his head was banged into the ground, and in the vst he said he shot him him while Trayvon was smothering him.

        Take your pick, LOL

      • Lynn says:

        Can we get a video of all of the things that supposedly happened during that one minute before the cops arrived?
        He’s talking about whether he is bleeding
        He’s talking about someone calling his wife
        He’s posing for a photoshoot
        He’s watching picture of Trayvon being taken
        He watching picture of flashlight being taken
        He discussing gun caliber and ammo
        He’s pacing back and forth to the T
        He’s flipping Trayvon’s body over and searching him
        He’s chatting on the phone
        He’s squatting, standing, pacing
        It would end up like the rocketman video (which still cracks me up every time I see it).

    • Romaine says:

      This Jon is the same guy whose wife witnessed two men fighting out back while looking out the window, told her husband about the fight and her husband tells her: “its not our business they will work it out amongst themselves” quote may not be perfect, but I believe she saw more than he has allowed her to tell.

    • Sleuth says:


      I believe it was witness #11. He is the one who was asking what type of gun did he murdered Trayvon with. He is also the husband/fiance of Ms. HOA. During their interviews with State investigators they admitted to knowing the confessed murderer.

      The other male witness #6, is the one who gave an interview to the OS behind a half closed door who told them the guy on the bottom had on red. This was a day or two after the murder.

      He told investigators Trayvon was on top beating the confessed murderer MMA style. Then in a subsequent interview he recanted his story about Trayvon on top beating someone MMA style. He is also the guy who witness #19 heard saying, “Stop it, cut it out, or I’m calling 911”. She also describes his shirt as white.

      At the time witness #19 heard witness #6, she was about to step out and walk her dog, and saw someone on the ground moaning. She said when she saw that, and witness #6 go inside to call 911 she hurried back inside, locked her doors, and put on her alarms. Then she heard the gunshot.

      • Sleuth says:


        Ooops! In the first paragraph I meant say male witness #13, his wife/fiance is witness #11.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        W13 is Jonathan. You are right that he told his wife w12, to let them figure it out themselves. After the shot he went outside and took the picture of the back of GZ’s head. He is the Asian guy, you can see standing next to the officers, in some of the photos taken by the media.

        W11 is the HOA lady you can hear in the 911 call with the screams. Her fiancee is W20 or Jeremy.

        W11 and W20 live in the corner unit with the screened porch. W13 and W12 live in the opposite corner unit.

        The corner units have the living area facing the dog walk, the other units have the kitchen facing the dog walk.

      • Lynn says:

        So #13 is across from the reenactment video? Who was he saying in the reenactment video that, “I think he lives right there” of something to that effect and points to the screened in porch behind him?

      • KittySP says:

        @sleuth- something that still lingers in back of my mind is how is it that w19 and young boy walking dog heard moans and see only one person? But dont say they heard screams/yelling for help, and shortly after hear gun shot…but screams for help are picked up on w11 911 call. GZ claims to have been yelling for help entire time…kid w/dog and w19 only hears moans and she hears w6 saying he was going to call 911. Are the moans GZs attempt at quieting Trayvon because the gun is drawn…and then as soon as there are no eyewitness(w6), he shoots.

  44. cielo62 says:

    KA~ That would not work; these folks will be busy getting babysitters, time off from work, finding clothes, getting medications together, warning friends to help out the family… NO TIME to waste on Skeletor.

  45. KA says:

    tres…I think the motion was written for the potential jurors to read before they reported on Monday.

    • two sides to a story says:

      Hahaha. Written for the wallets. I hear them opening now, don’t you?

    • That’s certainly one reason because they have been committing that sleazy trick as often as possible to poison the jury pool with their false narrative ever since the summons went out.

      A more likely reason, I think, is to get Judge Nelson to rule that the statements are admissible so that they can refer to them in their opening statement.

      But West waited too long.

      That’s why he was pushing so hard for Judge Nelson to rule on his request this morning.

      Bernie and Judge Nelson did not go for it and that is why West and O’Mara were so upset this morning.

      Looks like she did not get her Frye ruling filed either, so I bet West is in a rage.right now.

      They do not want the State mentioning in opening that Zimmerman has been excluded as the source of the shriek.

      • Rachael says:

        I got the feeling she had no intention of filing her ruling today when she left. She was pretty angry with West. Are there attorneys who make a habit of angering judges that much?

      • Trained Observer says:

        Why should Defense expect JN to be lightning quick with her Frye ruling when they themselves dragged out the hearing way beyond logical scheduling expectations.

        Am not suggesting that JN’s giving them a dose of their own … But rulings don’t just fall out of the sky. Defense flubbed its dub if it wanted her ruling this afternoon before the courthouse closed.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Why on earth would they wait until the last minute to do something that seems to be so important to their (sleazy) defense?

    • gbrbsb says:

      To be fair, if you watch the video of the hearing (use this link not Trent’s because his commentary gets in the way) around the 30:00 mark, West, who was arguing the issue, was clearly desperate for JN to rule that day (presumably to use in opening statements Monday) and even wanted to present the issue verbally and give her a hand written note with the utterances they want in. It was JN who insisted, and she had to insist several times, that West put it in writing.

      • cielo62 says:

        Gbrbsb- she’s a smart cookie, the JN.


        • gbrbsb says:

          I don’t doubt it at all. I was only commenting on this because some were incorrectly saying that it was the defence’s idea to file this motion last minute for the jurors to see before Monday, when West had in fact tried his damnedest not to write anything and for JN to revisit the issue then and there as a part of the State’s motion to exclude self serving statements.

  46. Soulcatcher says:


    • Lonnie Starr says:

      …And it can be added that Jon is not the first person gz spoke to after the shooting. But that gz wants us to believe that he can think that, a living, breathing person, after being missed by a shot fired into their chest, will fall and lay face down in wet grass without moving even the least little bit.

      gz is in full cover up mode, when he drops down onto the lifeless body and performs a search, with his gun still in his hand. Obviously, further attack is not what he fears, since that would cause him to withdraw and keep his weapon trained on the subject. There is no better self defense than to remain separate from the attacker while armed. Thus, his most immediate actions are designed to alter the evidence, not to defend against further attack. That is cover up mode.

      Worse yet, Jon, the witness who is claiming to have heard these utterances, appears to be no stranger as he is claimed to be. He not only has gz’s wife’s phone number, but his voice obviously, gives her the location information she needs to get to the scene. Worse still is, Jon’s garage door frame has what appears to be a blood stain on it, while the wounds gz bears have no evidence of having come from the subject Trayvon.

      These are interpretive and circumstantial clues, but we know that we cannot expect to be delivered explanations, for that which the players wish to conceal. Which is why lies told must color the testimony of all who support them.

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