Zimmerman Frye Hearing Resumed: Rebuttal

Thursday, June 20, 2013

Good afternoon:

We have a jury, an all female jury.


The four alternates:


Two males and two females.

Here’s a link to fauxmccoy’s chart.

Next up is the prosecution’s rebuttal case in the Frye hearing.

They will be presenting one witness, Tom Owen.

Here’s the link to the livestream coverage.


508 Responses to Zimmerman Frye Hearing Resumed: Rebuttal

  1. breelee says:

    Hi all. Just want to say I’ve been reading here since the Anthony trial and hugely appreciate each and everyone of you. I have to admit I’ve also stolen many links from here, to prove my thoughts. lol I’m like a few others and was in tears seeing how the jury selection went. They each had 10 strikes, but JN totally flipped and became for the defense imo.

    I haven’t seen it mentioned here, but here’s my worry. I have nothing against an all female jury, its their ages that scare me silly. Older women with grown children will not be sympathetic to a teen having troubles. They probably all have “perfect” kids. I raised my boys in what I consider a safer, easier time than parents have it today. They did also and might not be understanding.

    Leatherman, I’d also like to ask if some having a attorney in the family will go against what we here want to happen? What if they’re defense attorneys, or does that matter? Thank you if you accept me here, and continue the good fight!

    • Welcome to the blog.

      Leatherman, I’d also like to ask if some having a attorney in the family will go against what we here want to happen? What if they’re defense attorneys, or does that matter?

      I do not believe it matters except that being married to an attorney might create a set of expectations regarding respectful professional behavior that lawyers like O’Mara and West would violate so often as to so shock, dismay and anger them that they would not believe anything they said about the case.

      As a former criminal defense attorney who took his ethical obligations seriously, I am disgusted and appalled by their deceit and open hostility toward Judge Nelson.

      They give us all a bad name.

      I believe these women will do the very best they can to do justice in this case, despite the defense shenanigans, and I do not see them acquitting the defendant.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      At trial, like the gz dog abuse, the image of a troubled Trayvon is also very unlikely to make it on.

  2. ic2fools says:

    The male alternate, heheh. That is the lone male in a kitchen full of women! And we know how that goes.

    • PiranhaMom says:

      @ic2fools –

      First male alternate gets his news from NPR – he’s cool working with women. His kids wear hoodies. Gotta love this guy! Second alternate – also male, young, knows all about wrist holds – will be endearing to the six female jurors. They’ll want to mother him.

      You rarely see more than two alternates replace jurors (because there’s normally are only two alternates) but these two guys will be welcomed by the MomTeam.

  3. ic2fools says:

    Steppin fetchit, I can’t count the times I have said that! I feel the exact same way Jun. As a matter of fact I included him in my prayers last nite. I have made fun of him in jest, by no means do I ever wish harm on him or O’mara. Wanting them to reap the justice they deserve does not equate to any type of harm like ‘tinfoil hat people’

    Sic minded fools that bunch. When the verdict comes back guilty with an all white jury they say ‘women are weak’. Knowning it will prove their vile poison has not spread.

    Many forget the help and support many white people have given our race and many others.

    I have faith this jury will reach the right decision ‘Guilty as charged’.

    Honestly, when those women jurors hear Trayvon scream ‘Mama’ when they hear the recording. Ain’t a damn thing Fogen, O’mara can do or say to remove that haunting from the jury, women, mothers. They too will feel the pain as that scream ‘Mama’ pierces their very soul, motherly instinct.

    Many of those ladies respect Judge Deborah Nelson, a woman and will not take kindly to O’mara disrespect towards her. Especially the older jury women. HIs ass is grass, Judge Deborah has laid the foundation already, spanked his butt in front of them and will do again. All the women will see is his disrepect for her and that will flow to each and everything he does and says.

  4. Big Willie says:

    The CTH is suggesting, West get in the box and testify about Owens testimony.

    I’m speechless!

    • Xena says:

      @Big Willie.

      I’m speechless!

      ROFLMAO. I’ve said it many times — that is why I don’t engage them neither suffer their opinions and arguments because I have no patience for their ignorance.

    • ic2fools says:

      Terribly sad CTH doesn’t even realize that West has health issues. When he told Judge Deborah he was sitting down, West wasn’t well in the least bit.

      Those people are deranged, can’t even tell the man is about to pass out. They’ll and O’mara will push him till he well you get the ugly image. sic

      • Jun says:

        the Tinfoil Hat people have a classist belief of society whereby they feel women and non-white faces and cultures, and also other white ethnicities like Italians are below them and believe in slavery and Jim Crow so it does not surprise me they want to treat West like a steppin fetchit even if he dies

        He’s done some ruthless things to Trayvon with his words and actions as well as some others, but even I do not wish harm on West

        I theorized early on that West has a hearing problem

  5. Judy75201 says:

    O’Mara is counting on the only thing he has: reasonable doubt.

    • Malisha says:

      He hasn’t got reasonable doubt on his side.
      If Trayvon Martin’s hands were swollen and covered with Fogen’s DNA, and the bullet had entered his chest AND clothing at an upward angle with powder burns on skin AND Fogen’s face was like two smashed eggplants that had been in the oven for 1 hour at 350 degrees AND the back of his head was so abraded there was no hair left AND he had not said, “These a55holes, they always get away,” THEN there might POSSIBLY be reasonable doubt.


      But as it is — not so much.

      • Judy75201 says:

        It’s what he referred to in his presser after the trial today. That’s why I mentioned it. And I agree with you. He doesn’t have it. OJ & Casey are unlikely to happen again.

      • groans says:

        Didn’t O’Mara even get “spanked” by the judge when he was trying to “teach” the jurors about reasonable doubt? Jurors remember stuff like that, because these are still first impressions to them.

      • PiranhaMom says:


        For months we’ve all been pointing out that that the blood on the back of fogen’s head would be smeared by the wet grass if Trayvon had fogen pinned to the ground. Most of the blood would have been washed away by the rain-soked coarse-leaved St. Augustine grass, leaving a messy smear.

        Looking at fogen’s videotaped antic re-enactment onsite the day after the killing for Serino and Smith, et al, it struck me while watching fogen acting out the supposed repeating head-grabbing, head-slamming moves by Trayvon, Zimmerman has his hands cupped at the sides of an imaginary cantaloupe — his mythical head in that mythical “fight.”

        So … if Trayvon really DID have fogen’s head cupped between his hands while smashing fogen’s head into the sidewalk – wouldn’t those slanted lines of concealed blood in Jon’s photo, running from the top of the back of fogen’s head diagonally across fogen’s cheeks, into fogen’s Vandyke beard – wouldn’t those precise lines of congealed blood be blurred and messy? With the blood transferred to Trayvon’s palms and fingers?

        Trayvon never laid a hand on Zimmerman’s head.

        Hoping that one of our talented team of video-makers will put these two sets of images up on the screen for us.

        I think O’Mara will fight to keep that photo out of the jury’s eyesight in this trial.

    • Jun says:

      No, in this case

      There is no reasonable doubt he committed the killing with a depraved mind, in fact, the defendant willingly admitted it, however, he is claiming he has a justification called self defense, and since that is an affirmative defense, Fogen has to present evidence supporting his theory before the judge will grant an instruction to weigh that theory at trial, and if granted, the jury has to be convinced

      He cant just sit like a potted plant and blame the dead person with no evidence, as that would be unfair to the victim to just presume him responsible

      If the affirmative defense is to be weighed and the evidence presented by Fogen is considered sufficient by Nelson, then he has to convince a Jury and the state will have to disprove it

      The No DNa, no “red hands” on Trayvon is a killer to his claim because, it shows scientifically he did nothing to Fogen, and, if Fogen changes to new story, the jury and judge will find out he staged injuries earlier for a self defense hearing and he loses everyone on credibility

      It’s a good chess match, as long as the jury and trial is fair, he’s cooked

  6. concernedczen says:

    Did the defense try to strike B29? If not, that scares me as it makes me think they have something on her and will try to get her booted later.

    • Sleuth says:

      According to my poorly written notes, I see no indication they tried to strike her.

      She’s the one with 8 children, right?

      • concernedczen says:

        Yes, that one.

      • bettykath says:

        If I had 8 children and worked the Alzheimer unit, I would see a 4 week sequestration as a great vacation. No meals to prepare, someone else to make my bed and vacuum. She’ll be great on the jury.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Bettykath – me too. Sounds like a luxury vacation! At one point in my life, with four kids, sitting in a dark hole for a few hours sounded like a great vacation!

      • PiranhaMom says:

        @BettyKath –
        @Sleuth –
        @Two sides –

        Have not been part of a large family but have known plenty of farm families of 8-12 kids who delivered one every year.

        These kids really develop team skills, usually in pairs, with the older in each pair mentoring the next younger, both bossing them around and protecting them. That’s the only way the family unit can get the chores done and keep everybody in line. Even a 4 – 5 year-old can do credible work – and is respected for it.

        They’ll do just fine! And y’all are right: this is Mom’s richly-deserved Spa Vacation. MAY SHE SHINE!!!

  7. Leisa says:

    I am not surprised by anything that man says or does anymore. Tomorrow is going to get ugly. Mom wants the JN to relax rules of evidence as sanction for state not providing evidence and then we have the Defense motion in liming regarding certain predjudicial words…… Gonna be good.

    • Woow! says:

      I have no faith in JN anymore.

    • Sleuth says:

      He is definitely a legend in his own mind. Of course he wants the judge to relax the rules, they’re special, remember?

      • There is no such thing as relaxing the rules of evidence in a murder trial.

      • Sleuth says:

        Oh, I’m certain they know (maybe they don’t) that, but it doesn’t stop ’em from throwing those “hissy fits”.

        I’m still trying to digest his snappy remark to the judge, telling her everybody will go to lunch AFTER he’s done with his b.s. line of questioning.

    • Anonomous says:

      Strike all the black people if they dared? The judge agreed to the defense’s challenge relating to the black woman who withheld information to the court of her close working relationship to the pastor who had a specific opinion about the case. It wasn’t her race, it was her withheld information decided by the judge to exclude her.Its said how everyone always makes everything about race. That’s the only reason this case has vast media attention.

      • Anonomous says:

        Sorry black jurors…I wrote black people….opps

      • Xena says:


        That’s the only reason this case has vast media attention.

        The ZImmerman wasp nest keeps the issue of race involved. That includes Junior’s tweets comparing a 17 yr old with a gun and accused of murder, to a 17 yr old unarmed teen who was killed with a gun.

      • Shari says:

        No the vast media attention was due to the cries of a desperate mother. HER CHILD went to the store unarmed innocently and never returned. The police determined the killer was immune that night and worked to protect his interests.

  8. Sleuth says:

    I can’t get over O’Dirty telling the press the State struck the AA juror, and it was the State’s fault that no AA’s on the jury.

  9. Two sides to a story says:

    I must be getting either old or tired. Too much excitement for me today!

  10. ay2z says:

    Is E54 the first alternate? How is it possible the jurors will not be told who they are, and the alternates will know also? Because that could give alts less drive to focus 100% all the time/

    • concernedczen says:

      Apparently, they are going home over the weekend. Therefore, I am sure they will all know who the jurors are and who the alternates are. Also E6 and B76 will know that the state tried to get rid of them. So they will be even more prejudiced against the state.

      • Malisha says:

        I’m not worried now because the fight over the experts made me realize we were watching desperation on the part of the defense.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Malisha, I also sensed that the defense is, shall I say, “uncomfortable”…..they have nothing to counter the state’s evidence.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        “It don’t mean a thing” if you don’t have anything to counter the incriminating evidence.

    • Anonomous says:

      All ten jurors are told they are in the jury panel but will not know which 4 are alternates until they deliberate. Usually the judge explains why they can not know if they are a alternate until the end of trial because lack of focus from the 4 alternates could result.

      • Anonomous says:

        Sorry concerned, I read your response wrong.However,hopefully the juror’s won’t be that dumb to not follow the court’s instructions of avoiding any media or other related information. I’m sure they are all mature adults who know better to avoid to possibly being in contempt of court or be the reason for a mistrial if caught.

  11. towerflower says:

    Came in late, I hope Trent puts up West’s meltdown, I need the entertainment. Saw part of MOM’s press conf., days the defense loves the jury and stopped the State from eliminating some of the women early. Says that they are ready for Monday……guess that counters West we aren’t ready.

    Wish I could have seen the faces on the paper that wasn’t the witness’s paper.

  12. ay2z says:

    “No matter if you are whiet, black, brown or red, it doesn’t matter.”

    Ben Crump about the jury

    • concernedczen says:

      Wishful thinking on Mr. Crump’s part.

      • Tzar says:

        crump is a lawyer, so I am sure he has strategic reasons for his stance plus h probably knows all the evidence and hence why it won’t matter

    • willisnewton says:

      Crump cant be pleased that there are no African Americans on the jury but he’s right – what’s needed are six people who can see and hear evidence and give a fair ruling.

      I’m wondering if the defense has given away the fact that they plan to put GZ on the witness stand… Certainly they blew the golden opportunity to explain to the jury panel that not testifying can’t be held against a defendant.

      Obviously the smart strategy is or them to wait and see what the state presents, but I kinda doubt the state can adequately present a self defense assertion for the defendant… So their only hope is the ” you failed to prove a crime was committed” defense.

      • Jun says:

        Even though not testifying can not be held against the defendant, I have listened to jurors from The Comic Book Murders, and they wondered why the defendant would not speak in his defense

    • tinytruthseeker says:

      Well we know it SHOULDN’T matter…and I don’t think it WILL matter…. I am very happy with this jury…. I have never been one that was interested in seeing a stealth juror be selected for either side… and I don’t feel there was.

      I have complete confidence in Bernie and his ability to present a case full of FACTS and EVIDENCE….and honestly what kind of crazy wonderful Karma is it if this killer is convicted by a jury of WHITE WOMEN…. we know he hates women, we know he is a racist…. GIRL POWER ROCKS!!!

  13. Mike DeForest

    George Zimmerman attorney: jurors came in at random, prosecution struck first black male juror.

    I’m so glad the prosecution struck him. Good job, Bernie! Let him hit the _________ door!

  14. Xena says:

    Based on something O’Mara said, it sounds like he is not putting GZ on the stand and actually, may not present a defense at all.

    • ay2z says:

      He made sure the ‘stand your ground’ was in the juries minds from today onwards, as the judge’s instruction and as ‘the law’, but he’s using a law he admits does not apply to his client, but needs the well known and controversial term in the courtroom.

    • What was that, Xena? I may have missed, but I don’t think he mentioned a defendant’s right to remain silent during voir dire, where the lawyers were also allowed to explain various laws and constitutional rights. Did he discuss the 5th?

      • Xena says:


        What was that, Xena?

        My paraphrase; OM said the State has to prove that his client committed a crime. He doesn’t believe the State can prove that, and he doesn’t have to prove anything, so the trial will be over.

      • RobertSF says:

        Xena, I think that was just O’Mara blowing smoke before the reporters. He’s still trying the case in public.

    • Tzar says:

      How can he present what he does not have

      • Xena says:


        How can he present what he does not have

        Well, there ya go.

        I was punched in the nose and 40 seconds later, pinned his arm, aimed and shot him, is not a claim of self-defense — but that is GZ’s story.

    • RobertSF says:

      Actually, I read somewhere that the fact that O’Mara didn’t question the potential jurors about not holding it against a defendant who doesn’t testify indicated that Zimmerman indeed was going to testify.

    • KittySP says:

      I’m praying, believing, the states case against him is so overwhelming that he will be compelled to take the stand…against the advice of his attorney’s. He didn’t have enough sense not run his mouth to investigators without an attorney present. I’m sure RZ Sr would’ve advised him of that had he called him first.

      • tinytruthseeker says:

        Nah…. he admits to one of the investigators that “His dad doesn’t think he listens” and since then he has proven his dad was correct…. you think ANYBODY told him it was a good plan to go on the Shammity show?

        We all saw how that worked out…I do believe had it been appropriate Bernie would have sent the killer a thank you card for that gift. He did have the good manners to tell the court he was thankful!

        That Bernies momma raised him right!

    • groans says:

      I’ve been thinking lately that the defense WILL put the killer on the stand. They really don’t have any choice. If they don’t put him on the stand, the defense will be screwed. If they do put him on the stand, the defense will likely be screwed … but it’s their only option for maybe not being screwed.

      I also think that the killer will have some new story, to some degree. I can’t imagine what it will be. Maybe a composite of all stories, somehow, with explanations for inconsistencies and some NEW “facts” – or “factoids,” which O’Mara demonstrated his thorough familiarity with today.

      Also, I noticed today that O’Mara brought up “forgetting details” of a traumatic event (which the PJs who had such events did not support, but rather indicated they remembered everything).

      • Xena says:


        I’ve been thinking lately that the defense WILL put the killer on the stand.

        Sincerely, I hope that they do. GZ telegraphs his anger and upon re-direct, is most likely to go far beyond answering O’Mara’s or West’s questions and go ballistic on the personal attacks, really revealing his true motive for killing Trayvon.

      • Jun says:

        I do not know if the forget details game will fly very well but I am not the judge or juror

        Fogen knew enough to stage injuries to frame Trayvon

        He knew enough to bring a loaded gun to Trayvon

        He knew enough to write out a whole story and then contradict himself later on

        He knew enough to hide his money and passport

        He knew enough to claim self defense and the stand your ground law

        He knew enough that before he even went to trial to set up a beg site for his murder case

        He knew enough to tell lies about the car circling and lie about where he parked his car

        He knew enough that when he was “re-enacting” that he had to change his story because he figured out that his story does not match the evidence hence the Shaolin Tiger Swipes made up later on

        If he truly was forgetful, why did he feel the need to lie and contradict himself to try and match evidence later on?

      • PiranhaMom says:

        @groans –

        re “I also think that the killer will have some new story, to some degree. I can’t imagine what it will be. Maybe a composite of all stories, somehow, with explanations for inconsistencies and some NEW “facts” – or “factoids,” which O’Mara demonstrated his thorough familiarity with today.”:

        “Factitos,” along with semi-factitos and hypo-factitos

        Then add mini-factitos and quasi-factitos.

        Judge Nelson is going to need a bigger courtroom, for Pinocchioman’s nose to grow.

  15. KittySP says:

    Saw on HLN Robbie tweeted he won’t be making anymore on camera appearances until GZs acquittal…also appearing on Dr. Drew tonight.

    • Sophia33 says:

      I heard he was going to be on Dr. Drew. Every time he opens his mouth he makes me want to see GZ convicted.

    • ay2z says:

      Not going on caerma, not going to twitter once jury is selected, but the jury is still out in the real world and can be exposed to influence unavoidably.

      He’s not going to stop until the jury is sequestered and no need to comment further.

      Dr. Drew going to bring the sympathy vote for the admitted killer tonight?

      • PiranhaMom says:


        Agreeing with you all —

        The reason RZJoonyah will not be twitting or interviewing during the trial is because he knows there is no evidence supporting fogen and anticipates a ton of truly damning evidence against him, with a slam-bang appearance by BDLR in opening arguments and BDLR drilling fogen on his various endless sets of lies.

        He’s not going the be talking, because he’s too chicken.

        It would be too, too embarrassing for Joonyah to have to answer for all the lies his brother told, and new ones that are now being told, and for the forensic evidence that is so damning to his brother.

        All he could do would be to stammer.

        Don’t forget, in Joonyah’s eyes and ambition, the fate of fogen is way mo’ secondary to the future escalation of his role (self-imagined) as sought-after talk show guest and ultimately star of his own show on TNN (The Neanderthal Network).

        After all, who’s going to give an on-air commentator a contract when it’s shown that his only credible comment when the chips are down would be “no comment!”?

    • Malisha says:

      That takes care of HIS “career.” He should have shortened the time by saying, “until Hell freezes over.”

  16. Trained Observer says:

    O’Mara still yammering on in front of cameras. JN, please, a gag order.

  17. Trained Observer says:

    JN needs to issue a gag order for wits , attorneys and the accused citizen .. .otherwise known as the murderer.

  18. dianetrotter says:

    Zimmerman is doing an interview and giving autographs. I thought attorneys did not have to give reasons for dismissing their 10.

  19. Xena says:


    O’Mara talking about how long GZ waited. But how many continuations did he file?

  20. ic2fools says:

    In case anyone missed any part of Frye Hearing due to lost of sound and/or picture here’s the link, (West meltdown starts at 12 minute mark):

    • Rachael says:

      How is it not responsive? It isn’t what he wants to hear. LOL

      • ic2fools says:

        West is confused and lost, doesn’t even remember what he has asked and trying to regroup. Them sparks just ain’t firing.

        Pitful O’mara won’t get West out of there and get him the help he needs. Instead piling more pressure on West. Greedy O’Dirty don’t care even for his ‘friend’.

        No more Skeletor jokes from me, this is bad business very bad. That man needs medical aide with a quickness not legal aide, medical aide I tell ya.

  21. diary73 says:

    I personally think West became ill from swallowing chewing tobacco tainted saliva. It is important that the news shows and Twitter people pass around this possibility.

    I do not feel sorry for him. Any person with half a brain knows not to swallow the juice of tobacco plugs! Sheesh!

    • ic2fools says:

      I was about to ask about tobacco poisoning. I know if I would smoke too many cigerattes I would get sick. So that effect has to the same if some chewed and swallowed tobacco. Wheew!

      I have made jokes and all but this is serious now. No more Skeletor jokes from me. That’s a sad sad man.

      Now if he melts down in court in front of the jury like that I have no pity not one bit. People around him see the problem and would do good to pull him and get him some help. As we know the defense is not known for doing good for anyone, so why start now. right?

    • Malisha says:

      I think he deliberately took Ipecac to create a scene.

  22. Manthei nailed it when he said the State was not responsible for the news reports that the defense had an expert who identified GZ as the source of the scream.

    And some PJs mentioned hearing that.

    But the defense has no expert to testify to that and they would not be challenging the admissibility of the evidence, if they did.

    • OMG, so they lied about that too?

      • tinytruthseeker says:

        That doesn’t surprise me…. they have lied to the court nearly every time they have appeared. I do believe in fact they started lying the day they said the killer didn’t have the money for a high bond…. why should today be any different *winks*

        BTW…. your feathered baby is beautiful…. wish I had raised my hand about those art supplies (I am a Fine Art Major in college)…. You are brilliantly funny….and…. Ummmm… you got a wicked great, smart, handsome hubby…. lucky girl!!!

  23. ay2z says:


    Now live in courtoom. Woman court official announcement to media. Jury Questionnaire will not be available ‘ever’ (or duration of the trial), and demographics will NOT be released about the jurors at this time.

    and “2 minute warning for MOM, announced by camera crew person.

  24. Rachael says:

    Glad they warned us. LMAO

  25. Rachael says:

    Y’all think West will be there tomorrow? I’m sure he will be but if he isn’t, I won’t be surprised.

  26. Xena says:

    O’Mara is suppose to hold a presser this evening.

    • Sophia33 says:

      Oh dear. The one thing that I must say I am disappointed with the state on is their lack of PR.

      • rayvenwolf says:

        Same, but only to a small point and here’s why. O’Mara would start breathing even more bull if the Pros got anywhere near a camera and mic.

  27. Court is in recess until tomorrow morning at 9 am when she will announce her ruling.

    Opening statements will start Monday morning at 9 am.

  28. Sophia33 says:

    West caused JN to choke because she was in such a hurry to tell him to be quiet.

  29. chi1224 says:

    Have a wonderful night everyone! Justice coming soon!

  30. What? No ruling until tomorrow?

    • Malisha says:

      She’s gonna write down her rulings and they’re gonna be unassailable. And defense is gonna ask for a continuance based on health. I bet a dollar.

  31. RobertSF says:

    Ha, ha, ha! Bill Schaeffer predicted court would be adjourned tomorrow, but no — JN wants everyone there at 9 am.

  32. ay2z says:

    Tomorrow morning 9 am to hear motions, opening statements Monday.

    Court in Recess.

  33. smokeegyrl says:

    She doesn’t want to hear West… Did you see her shake his head… …. yayyyyy she cut it off….. yayyyyy

  34. RobertSF says:

    Wonderful point by Manthei — how come the defense couldn’t find an expert witness to say it’s the defendant who’s screaming?

    • ay2z says:

      Or had the, surely they would have been brought in. Therefore, he concludes that the reason the defense wants this tossed, is that they have no one to say defendant was screaming.

      That’s big, because we have heard sr. z and jr z say it was big z. It will not be the battle of the experts, but the battle of the mother and the z side. Osterman’s wife said SZ was unconsolable when she heard the 911 screams, and concluded that meant it was her busband, however, that’s an ASS-umption because a wife could be upset as she recognized that her husband did, or may have killed a young man with her gun, or any other variation. (if SZ had told Mrs. Osterman it was gz, then Osterman would have said than on Dr. Phil).

      • Rachael says:

        GZ himself said it wasn’t him. At least once. Maybe twice –

      • KittySP says:

        they initially wanted experts to say it was GZ cause he claimed during his questioning with detectives that he repeatedly called for help, but GZ didn’t know about the screams being captured on 911 calls, he figured they take his word….once call was made public, defense felt if they could find someone to say it was GZ, thought that would support his claim. GZ probably wanted to piss his pants when Serino played that tape. Not once did he acknowledge those screams has his own.

      • Malisha says:

        “Shellie was unconsolable” is not evidence of ANYTHING.

  35. ay2z says:

    West, take a breather while the court reporter changes paper.

    West wants to respond, “If I let you respond the state’s going to want to respond…. “

  36. Xena says:

    (jumping up and down at the State’s argument) Go-go-go. TELL IT! The defense doesn’t want experts because none of them support it is GZ’s screaming!

    • Rachael says:

      Exactly. Weren’t they they ones who wanted it intially because they thought it DID support GZ’s screaming? Now that they don’t it sure has changed. But I could have sworn it was initially them that wanted it…until now. But like CraneStation said, we don’t really need fancy experts. First of all, GZ said at least once, perhaps twice, it was not him. That could be passed off I suppose by saying he was out of his mind at the time (at the time? – but you know what I mean), so aside from that, the screaming stops when we hear the shot.

      It doesn’t take an expert to figure THAT out.

      • Rachael says:

        So now I’ve confused myself. Are they trying to not bring the screaming in period or just the experts identifying it?

        Because again, it doesn’t really take an expert to put it together. Screaming – gunshot – silence.

      • Sophia33 says:

        He said it twice in the same interview. If they get the experts in along WITH Zimmerman saying it’s not him. It’s a wrap.

      • Xena says:

        It was the fact that two voices are heard in the background of that 911 call that the defense became nervous. Not only does the State have experts that the screaming is not GZ, but they have experts to what GZ was saying.

      • tinytruthseeker says:

        I know everybody wants to use the killers words about how “that doesn’t even sound like me” against him…. but honestly doesn’t everybody remember at least once hearing themselves….say on an answering machine….. and thought…. “Damn! That is what I sound like?” I mean we KNOW he KNOWS it ISN’T him screaming…. but that particular statement he made…. I don’t think the state is going to bother trying to use it to impeach him…. it is just to easy for a juror to remember themselves not believing a recording of how they “sounded” ….like what they THINK they really sound like….

  37. If any expert existed that said Z made the scream, they would be here.

    Boom. Roasted.

  38. gbrbsb says:

    I am worried… JN seems very read up on this, and I hope not but I have a horrible sinking feeling she is not going to admit it.

    • type1juve says:

      Funny, I have that feeling too. I know I have read that JN is prosecution friendly but I just haven’t picked up on that. In fact, I would say the opposite.

  39. Nef05 says:

    Was it just me, or did JN look at West with pity in her eyes, as he was winding up – and that he saw and recognized it.

    That picture of West (eyes closed) looked to me like a man who just realized his problem had been publicly recognized.

    • Just…Okay, for me, because I’m slow. What problem are we speculating that he has?

      • bettykath says:

        Ryan, there have been a few suggestions:
        stroke, early signs of dementia, and the latest, nicotine poisoning from swallowing tabacky juice.

        I think he had the task of the Frye hearing and he wants to see it through. He also was tasked with half of the pj interviews re: pre-trial publicity. I don’t expect to see him do much more. I really hope he gets a good medical checkup.

  40. chi1224 says:

    Holy shit West does look bad…. they might have to stop court

  41. lurker says:

    Mantei took on West’s excuses about not having enough time.

  42. Rachael says:

    Dang!! He might keel over right there!

  43. fauxmccoy says:

    thank you mantei! one does not need to be a programmer to use a computer program!

  44. ay2z says:

    West is flushed looking.

  45. rayvenwolf says:

    Is it me or has West lost some of the wind out of his sails?

    • rayvenwolf says:

      And by that I mean like he should probably go sit someplace quiet and dark before he’s going to the hospital.

  46. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    West face is becoming very pale.

  47. Rachael says:

    West does not look good. I know y’all said stuff about GZ having a heart attack to get an extension, but I really do think West is going to have a stroke or something. He really does not look or sound good.

  48. gbrbsb says:

    Exactly, Mantei, handwriting experts don’t have a degree in determining whose writing either and they testify all the time.

  49. ay2z says:

    Did West just blurt something out? He says French did analysis of NEN call in his lab.

  50. @Ryan:

    Mantei just mentioned ignition timing! Straight from your reference to my Cousin Vinny!

  51. Girlp says:

    Please sit down and shut up, hurry!

  52. “I’m going to sit down.”

    Not exactly proper court phrasing, is it?

  53. Xena says:

    West breaths through his mouth. There is something medically wrong with him.

  54. chi1224 says:

    I’m starting to wonder if West is an appeal plant? He is off the charts bad!

  55. Big Willie says:

    What West meant to say was, “Im going to sit down because Im getting on my own nerves”.

  56. Seriously, this guy is ready to stroke out…take it from an ER nurse danged!

  57. Trained Observer says:

    West sure knows how to empty a courtroom … soon it will he and JN, alone at last. Except or Manthei.

  58. thank God! He needs to go to ER

  59. Rachael says:

    Is he going to have a stroke?!!!

  60. chi1224 says:

    OMG “unfortunate” jurors knew things??!! Really?? WHO has been responsible for that??

  61. This guy is going to stroke out right there! Look at his jugular veins!

  62. smokeegyrl says:

    put a muzzle on him…. shut up alreadyyyyyyyy *crying*

  63. disappointed says:

    They are going to find your client guilty!

  64. disappointed says:

    How did they know? Oh right MOM cannot keep his self out of the front of a camera.

  65. West is avoiding that eensy weensy problem where the death cry ended abruptly, with a gunshot…

  66. West keeps repeating himself and if she does not cut him off, he will talk all night.

  67. smokeegyrl says:

    They said it was not GZ voice

  68. Trained Observer says:

    MOM must be out of his own mind to leave this tobacco-chewing lame-brain alone for wrapping up Frye.

  69. disappointed says:

    I am embarrassed for West. He seems clueless and I call that earth shattering and not worthy of a Noble Prize.

  70. chi1224 says:


  71. Xena says:

    Had the experts said it was GZ’s voice, the defense would not have brought a Frye challenge.

  72. smokeegyrl says:

    Mantai please object on the longevity of his speech! There is no basis.

  73. Sophia33 says:

    Ewwww nasty!

  74. Two sides to a story says:

    Good grief. He’s longwinded – does he think he’ll win on number of words said?

  75. Manthei is right. This is not novel or new. And there are no new standards in place to apply to this case or any other.

  76. smokeegyrl says:

    *yawn* how long did he say… I could’ve swore he said he was going to be short.

  77. Girlp says:

    Judge Nelson looks bored with West. I know I am.

  78. I am calling bullshit because, for example in a DUI, a cop can administer a breathalyzer, and testify to the result, and have no idea what the software behind the machine does.

  79. May I have a moment, my stream of consciousness ran dry.

  80. groans says:

    Swallowing all that tobacco juice requires a lot of water to soothe the stomach, eh?

    • Nef05 says:

      He’s swallowing tobacco juice? That’s nasty. 😦

      • ic2fools says:

        @Nef05, this is what I found, (paragraph 2, wow! West is ingesting nickel, a radioactive compound and Formaldehyde. No wonder he’s breathing through his mouth and looks all dried up. With the stress we have seen him continully using it. it is also sweetened with a syrup, hmmm syrup eh!):

        What is in smokeless tobacco?

        Smokeless tobacco is available in two forms. Snuff is a finely ground tobacco which is either dry (inhaled or sometimes placed in the mouth)or moist (placed in the mouth). Chewing tobacco comes in three forms: loose, leaf, plug or twist. All forms of chewing tobacco are held or chewed in the mouth.

        There are 2,550 known compounds in processed tobacco in addition to nicotine. Smokeless tobacco contains at least 30 metals including nickel and a radioactive compound called polonium-210. Formaldehyde and nitrosamines are also found in smokeless tobacco. All of these compounds have been known to cause cancer.

        Nitrosamines are the most cancer-causing agents that form in tobacco during its processing. Small amounts are found in many other products such as beer, bacon and other foods. Nitrosamine concentrations in snuff are over 100 to 1,000 times greater than the regulated levels found in these other products.

        Snuff and chewing tobacco contain high concentrations of sodium (salt). If you swallow tobacco juice, the sodium may contribute to the risk of high blood pressure. High blood pressure has been found to be a problem for a number of smokeless tobacco users.

        Several kinds of sugar are found in unprocessed chewing tobacco and added during its processing. The consistent exposure to these sugars while having a chew in your mouth may cause dental cavities.


        West is using what they call Plug. He is not spitting out the tobacco juices, he’s swallowing it. Dude has got to have an ulcer and that’s painful:

        Plug. This is chewing tobacco that has been pressed into a brick shape, often with the help of syrup, such as molasses, which also sweetens the tobacco. You cut off or bite off a piece of the plug and hold it between your cheek and gum. You spit out the tobacco juices.


        West goes at it non-stop during the proceedings. He should have been spitting shyte out his mouth. But he can’t in Court. Damn my stomach hurts just writing about it.

  81. ZCBest says:

    I drove him listening to the live feed. Mantei is my man! West…just make it stop. Please!

  82. West is trying to make Reich seem like I up and called the WaPost and said I was an “expert”.

  83. “So, where are we?”

  84. amsterdam1234 says:

    IANAL but to my layman’s ears, every single “argument” West is making has no business in a Frye hearing.

  85. Nef05 says:

    West, that’s opinion, not methodology.

  86. groans says:

    We’re all preaching to the choir, here. But will Nelson be bamboozled again?

  87. ay2z says:

    ‘The scientists scientist’. Hmmm…. Judge Kenneth Lester was called a ‘judge’s judge’, does this diminish the qualities and qualifications of Judge Nelson? Of course not.

  88. Xena says:

    West is making personal attacks and not establishing his motion based on law.

    • Rachael says:

      That has been the way the defense has handled this whole case so far, why should this part be any different?

      • Malisha says:

        Exactly. They never had law to support their motions; they did not have law OR facts to support their reckless theories. They have no case so they’re reduced to ONLY having personal attacks in their arsenal. Pathetic and obnoxious.

  89. Eliminating one of two known voices as the source is a totally different test compared to matching a voice to someone.

  90. RobertSF says:

    West keeps veering away from the methodology to arguing that the state’s expert witnesses are wrong. That’s not the purpose of a Frye hearing, is it?

    If the defense thinks the state’s expert witnesses are wrong, then they should bring their own expert witnesses to rebut the state’s, shouldn’t they?

    • Girlp says:

      I think that’s been his entire argument the entire time the state experts are wrong, Judge Nelson may say different but IMO he has not proven yet that the methodology is not accepted.

  91. rayvenwolf says:

    Listening to West right now if making my nicotine craving kick into high gear and I can’t have one until tomorrow. Time for another cup of coffee and to hit the mute button.

  92. Rachael says:

    I could be mistaken, but wasn’t it originally the defense who WANTED to use the tape because they were sure it was GZ?

  93. gbrbsb says:

    If, as West said, they really would have liked to know who was screaming, at a time when they still thought it was one voice, how come they waited until May to find an expert ?

  94. ay2z says:

    West about Dr. French, “I didn’t know him from Adam until I started looking around, I guess May it was….”.

  95. Girlp says:

    Just got to the video in time to see West stating what he did not prove. Does Mantei get a rebuttal to West summation

  96. smokeegyrl says:

    We have Trayvon’s voice… what an absent mind no account attorney… uggh… he needs to retire. quickly… like right now…

  97. ay2z says:

    Loved Mantai’s wrap up with the visuals, didn’t copy all of them, but have some.

    oh no!! west has just referred to his pure, objective, hard science as ‘… the ART’ , and then he calls what the state’s experts work it a “fools errand”.

  98. gbrbsb says:

    Yes, West, but whose life was threatened ?

  99. fauxmccoy says:

    west acknowledges screams were ‘a death cry’ …. hmmmm, and who died, exactly?

  100. Good grief! He’s swallowing tobacco juice.


  101. “Does the court understand what I am getting at?”

    What a rude question.

  102. Trained Observer says:

    OMG … West: “Does the court understand what I’m getting at?”

  103. concernedczen says:

    It seems like the defense’s best lawyering so far has been in investigating the black potential jurors. Other than that, they have come across as a bit incompetent.

    Including Mr. West not being prepared with his closing in this Fry Hearing.

  104. For the love of Moses…

  105. smokeegyrl says:

    I heard them… you jerk… I’m not an expert and it is there… you D.A. I pulled more than those…

  106. I would say something really nasty, except that I think West has an organic brain disorder and I feel sorry for him.

  107. disappointed says:

    So basically the “conversation” is devastating to your client.

  108. gbrbsb says:

    “Owen took it to all be one person and stirred it all up together” (not verbatim)

    Aha, so West is tantamount to admitting there is more than one person !

    • disappointed says:

      of course we are to believe Trayvon said nothing, had no reason to scream because he was a thug. Have you ever seen a REAL thug skip away? A real thug would have taken Fogen’s gun away and shoved it up his a55! Sick of this idiot.

  109. Nakasome didn’t use the lame Nobel prize line West, Weyman did.

  110. Oh hell no, wait for it…

    Is West chewing tobacco?

    Fred: West is chewing tobacco.

    me: no he is not.

    Fred: Yes he is.

    me: Oh my God, he needs to get some patches or something…

    • fauxmccoy says:

      he is — we’ve seen him sneak plug tobacco a few times, we’ll be seeing more, i am sure. state should provide him a spittoon.

      • Well, I know it’s tough, but at the very least, he needs to discuss with his doctor, a way to avoid this, while he is on his feet and in front of the Court. A patch…just something.

      • ic2fools says:

        West is swallowing that chew juice, each time his mouth is full of chew juice he drinks the water to help swallow. My stomach burns just thinking of it, eewww, he has to have a ulcer

  111. Two sides to a story says:

    Mantei looks like he’s bopping to the music in his own head.

  112. bettykath says:

    start your report with “it was a dark and stormy night…….”

  113. smokeegyrl says:

    West is only giving his opinion and not showing any facts or proof to back to what he is saying..

  114. Oh the prosecution experts are in it for the money so they’re not reliable. Lame. Lame. Lame.

  115. chi1224 says:

    “somebody” screaming….. OMG

  116. amsterdam1234 says:

    This is embarrasing.

  117. Two sides to a story says:

    Unsuitable, but then the defense will still claim that Fogen is screaming.

  118. Think any of those mothers on the jury will recognize a kid screaming for what it is?

    • chi1224 says:

      This 50 year old white mother knew immediately when I heard the scream that is was the young Trayvon, like instinct.

      • I am a 52-y/o mother and it would not take me long.

      • Nef05 says:

        49 yr old black mom says “ditto”. Fogen’s got a HUGE problem there. There is nothing the defense could say that would convince me that was a grown man, over a teen boy.

      • disappointed says:

        when I heard those screams I knew zero about the screams. Did not know why he screamed. Clicked on a link my son told me to and heard it. Then I found the back story to it. I knew instantly that a kid screamed before the gun shot before finding out any ages. Terrified me because I did not even know why the kid was shot. My Son then had me read the article.

        • chi1224 says:

          Like I said I think women and especially mothers will have the instinct to know it was a teen barely 17, NOT 28 year old Fogen with a gun.
          I’m starting to like this jury

      • Sophia33 says:

        Haven’t had children yet, but I knew.

    • groans says:


    • lurker says:

      Actually, it will probably be better for the defense to toss the experts and just listen to the tape.

    • rayvenwolf says:


    • Shari says:

      I’m 31 and those screams will haunt me forever. Sometimes I feel too much, too much empathy can be crippling. American media shields us so much from the brutality of war. I went to BBC? during the Iraq war and saw maimed innocent children. I guess I’ll continue to be a blind American because I can’t stomach it.

      ANYONE who listened to that death cry then gunshot knew who was screaming. The racists Zidiots KNOW it was the child Trayvon, they just don’t care.

  119. Mr. West, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

  120. Rule Judge Nelson! We all know it’s Trayvon Martin screaming on the 911 tape.

  121. Trained Observer says:

    Manthei listens to West babble on. His eye-brow raised expression: “You gotta be shitin’ me … “

  122. groans says:

    I love Mantei’s facial expressions. And his half-rumpled, sticking-up hair look.

  123. lurker says:

    Yes–Nakasone is a valid expert. But–his testimony did not support a finding that the methodology is new and unaccepted.

  124. type1juve says:

    Mr. Mantei is killing me with his facial expressions LMAO!

  125. rayvenwolf says:

    Scrambling because you all have been wasting your time, other people’s money and the COURT’S time by playing around with nonsense.

  126. smokeegyrl says:

    Is he being argumentative with JN… oh lawd!

  127. lurker says:

    We cannot support our case in this hearing because the court pushed us too hard, the prosecution didn’t give us their things on time. Waah, waah, waah.

    He is still thinking that the hearing is to rule on the content of the reports–not the methodology.

    And they couldn’t find someone to find the opposite of the prosecution’s reports.

  128. Trained Observer says:

    Oh here we go again, whining about not being able to afford an expert.

    Also complaining about learning of Reich at “last possible moment” before the discovery deadline.

    “We are absolutely scrambling to get our heads around this … and w’ere not even there yet.”

    So blame it on JN for not allowing a 50-year continuance.

  129. I was too stupid to understand the report so throw it out.

  130. chi1224 says:

    JN is probably thinking.. STFU

  131. Nef05 says:

    Nothing he’s saying he has anything to do with Frye. Quit effing whining and get to the point!

  132. Two sides to a story says:

    West is pulling itogether pretty well. I kinda wondered at first! Maybe looks are deceiving.

  133. smokeegyrl says:

    If you were not prepared today… all that other stuff you talking about West is non chalant… Sit down… say you are done and let JN rule.

  134. gbrbsb says:

    Yes, you and MOM did “scramble” to get on top of it… you were the last to realise there could be more than one voice on the recording!

  135. Rachael says:

    wahhh wahhh waaaaaaahhhhhhh

  136. type1juve says:

    West starts of with excuses.

  137. disappointed says:

    You can pay 10000 a day for jury selection but cant afford 3300. Go sit down and stfu. CRY BABY.

  138. Whine whine no time no money not fair 😥

  139. RobertSF says:

    Mantei stayed up late last night and did his homework, while West is full of excuses.

  140. fauxmccoy says:

    excellent closing summary by mantai

    dreading west’s ‘off the cuff’ oral argument 😦

  141. dianetrotter says:

    The prosecution seems well qualified and prepared to try this case. I’m glad I’m not on trial.

  142. type1juve says:

    Mantei is giving an excellent argument!

  143. ic2fools says:

    Go ahead Mantei, do what you do. A fine job I tell ya, damn fine job.

    wayman was full of BullShyte and you called it!

    • I didn’t like Wayman. Nevermind that I didn’t understand a word he was saying, he was an egotistical jerk.

      • ic2fools says:

        I completely agree with you. He spent less than 10mins on this.

        Mantei wrote it down put it on big screen what the great Wayman didn’t know or do.

        Ain’t that a hoot trying to hollar…

  144. Trained Observer says:

    Why did O’Mara trot off with the Fogens , leaving West unsupervised for the Frye? Very dangerous.

  145. See this is why I don’t care who is on the jury. MOM and West are idiots. And those temper tantrums will piss off even the post pro-Z jurors.

  146. chi1224 says:

    The screams on that tape is what haunts me the most, and literally makes me cry for Trayvon. The fact that Fogen wants to get it excluded speaks VOLUMES!! FUCK HIM HE SHOT A SCREAMING TEENAGER!

  147. Lord God, Mantei not only has written argument, he also has a Power Point…and West has not prepared? Is that it?

  148. Two sides to a story says:

    Not sure they should have left West on his own.

  149. rayvenwolf says:

    West is an idiot. I love how he just casually tried to ignore the fact that the software DIDN’T EXIST at the time.

    • It’s the classic TV lawyer trick. Straight out of the end of My Cousin Vinny where the prosecutor asks the bogus question about cars.

      • Mona Lisa Vito: ‘Cause Chevy didn’t make a 327 in ’55, the 327 didn’t come out till ’62. And it wasn’t offered in the Bel Air with a four-barrel carb till ’64. However, in 1964, the correct ignition timing would be four degrees before top-dead-center.

      • Malisha says:

        HA HA – my son was in his 20s when a friend of ours was in a Broadway show so we visited her in her dressing room after the show was over. My kid saw a woman there and said to her, “Wow you look exactly like Marisa Tomei!” She and my friend both laughed. (She was Marisa Tomei.) Neither of them told my kid that he was speaking with Marisa Tomei. Meanwhile, my kid could do an impression of exactly that part of the movie (he worked as a mechanic at the time) and he did his impression. Tomei said to him, “wow you really TALK like her!” and she proceeded to do an impression right after he did his. … and slowly, it dawned on my kid … she was even better than he was …

        Most hysterically funny thing I think I ever witnessed!

  150. disappointed says:

    Is it just me or does the defense seem terrified of these screams? Why Fogen said they were his. Oh but he said Trayvon ran, no skipped away. He said Trayvon slammed his head, oh never mind Fogen is a known liar.

  151. Odds that West spends a night in the pokey in the next 2 to 4 weeks?

  152. West is really pushing his luck with Judge Nelson.

  153. Wow, man does the Court seem annoyed…

    • disappointed says:

      ya think? He is an ass. If I acted like that in a courtroom I would be in a cell below the courtroom.

  154. West is going to get hit with a contempt charge during trial. Watch for it!

  155. gbrbsb says:

    Crunch time, Mantei… give it your all !

  156. ic2fools says:

    Damn West just had a MELTDOWN!!!! Major Meltdown

  157. He hasn’t had time to do a written argument. The dog ate his homework.

    • Rachael says:


    • gbrbsb says:

      Nope, my bet is GZ ate it !

    • Not only did the dog eat his homework, he also gave a document to Dr. Wayman and misrepresented it to be Owen’s report.

      Owen never saw it before and does not know what it is.

      It’s part of something, but God only knows what it is.

      • Why is West chewing tobacco while arguing to Judge Nelson?

        • Xena says:


          Why is West chewing tobacco while arguing to Judge Nelson?

          Why is West even arguing with the judge? If he were a good attorney, he would find a way to re-phrase his question.

      • Trained Observer says:

        He thinks she’ll be charmed?

        • ic2fools says:

          @Trained Observer

          Yeah, about as much charm as O’mara thinks he will have on a all woman jury. Don’t he know he used what charm effect he had when he married.

          Any woman who is charmed by O’mara has low self esteem, gullible week minded needy woman. Who would have a need to please in the worst way. Of course I’ve yet to see Rene Stuzman emit anything that resembles female genes. She speaks, sounds, looks. acts and dress like a the guy next door. I can’t think of the other one (woman) name talked about here that’s a O’mara fan, she is just a door mat ditz.

      • ic2fools says:

        @Professor and Xena

        West is drinking water a lot of water, does that mean he is swallowing the chewing tobacco?

        I’m sic to my stomach.

        • Xena says:


          @Professor and Xena

          West is drinking water a lot of water, does that mean he is swallowing the chewing tobacco?

          Don’t know. The air conditioning is shut-off at 5 p.m. EST. He might be chewing on aspirins to prevent his blood pressure from hitting stroke level. West does not look, neither behave like he is medically well.

      • ic2fools says:


        Wow, I have not pity but this is just wrong. West needs to seek medical attention and quickly. Your right he may have a stroke or his heart. This is too much stress and pressure, like Professor said earlier ‘we ain’t seen nothing yet’. West can’t hold up much longer. Its’ not funny anymore, no more Skeletor jokes from me.

        If O’mara doesn’t do something to help West him, I wouldn’t be surprised one bit, but damnit he should. Remember he introduced him in the beginning as his ‘friend’. Then he needs to show it and help his friend. Even if it means he has to go forward with trial without West. At this rate he’ll be anyway.

  158. disappointed says:

    LMAO! Not what he wanted to hear. The guy was guilty.

  159. Wow West just slammed his glass down.

  160. SoulSistaWoo says:

    What is wrong with West?
    If he does not like the answer he’s getting he thinks he can just cut the witness off.

  161. Xena says:

    In general when an attorney doesn’t want a witness to complete their answer, it’s because that attorney is fearful of the answer.

  162. groans says:

    I hope that kid gave West a chill pill!!!

  163. gbrbsb says:

    I hope West acts like this with the witnesses at trial !

  164. Court: “Mr West, Please allow him to finish.”

  165. Two sides to a story says:

    Wow. Fireworks and it’s not July 4 yet.

  166. West is being a dm bully! This ish needs to stop!

  167. FactsFirst says:

    to many chief’s not enough indians..

  168. Trained Observer says:

    West again demonstrating he doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground, processed or not. If he’s a plea bargaining specialist, formerly with the public defender’s office, he should sit down

    JN: Let him finish his answer.

    JN: Please don’t cut him off in the middle of his answer.

  169. smokeegyrl says:

    West is bullying JN

  170. Big Willie says:

    West has lost his mind!

  171. Nef05 says:

    West – in FULL meltdown. LMAO!!! :lol

  172. ic2fools says:

    Oooo West has snapped! Yelling at the witness is not proper and out of line!!!!

  173. “I can’t let him finish judge, it’s not responsive.” Oh the whine.

  174. disappointed says:

    He is not answering they way he wants him to answer it. lmao

  175. groans says:

    Very basic evidence concepts, but West wants to ignore the rules of evidence and wander wherever he feels like it in his questioning.

  176. Owen getting frustrated with West.

  177. disappointed says:

    Why won’t JN hit West with her gavel? He is rude.

  178. smokeegyrl says:

    OMGosh… shutttttttttt up… West…

  179. SoulSistaWoo says:

    West is a pathetic asshole!

  180. West is not processing ish. He doesn’t want to accept the objection.

  181. Court: “If you will point to the part where he testified to that because I didn’t hear it”

    Second state objection sustained


  182. Xena says:

    Nelson is getting ready to take West to school.

  183. I don’t understand the math of Photoshop but I can probably give West some hair. Who gives a flip if he understands how the software ticks?

    • rayvenwolf says:

      Exactly. I have an uncle who designs slot machines. He’s a mathematician. I have watched him design several games and I can honestly say I barely understand the algorithm needed, but I can understand how a slot machine works.

  184. fauxmccoy says:

    west: blah blah blah algorithms blah blah blah mathematics blah blah blah algorithms

  185. State’s objection sustained.


  186. fauxmccoy says:

    WHY in the name of all that is holy does ‘yawn’ west insist that experts be able to write computer code in order to use a program? it is completely unnecessary and pompous!

  187. gbrbsb says:

    How can he agree or disagree… 1) he ain’t got the doc, 2) as he says he is not a mathematician !

  188. bettykath says:

    West claims he got it from the state as discovery. Maybe he really got it from his own witness.

  189. Nef05 says:

    Oh, for pete’s sake “no name, no signature, no identifiers and no opinions that relate to this case”, but I want you to identify it, so I can discuss it? Really, West???

  190. dianetrotter says:

    El Stupido!

  191. gbrbsb says:

    Maybe West copied the wrong diagram and got the pic of the hat that is in fact a snake that’s eaten an elephant in the Little Prince mixed up with his !

  192. Did West just pull this document out of his ass?

  193. Hell to the hell no. No name, no signature?

  194. “We’re not talking about the same document.”
    “I’ll skip a page.”

    That won’t help, West.

  195. Oh no, this is getting embarrassing.

  196. ic2fools says:

    Owen just said he doesn’t have the document in front of him. West keeps going and going!!!!

    He needs to stop and fax a copy to Mr. Owen. Darn

    • Malisha says:

      I don’t see a problem. ALL West has to do is recall Wayman and ask him, “Is it true that you critiqued an article I sent you?”

      Wayman: Yes.

      West: Would you have critiqued it any differently if it had actually been written by Mr. Owen?

      Wayman: Oh NO!

      West: Isn’t it true that in fact you have been even MORE critical of it, if it were written by Mr. Owen?

      Wayman: ABSOLUTELY. The only thing worse than that article would have been an article written by Mr. Owen.

      West: No more questions. Your witness, Mr. DeLaRionda.

      BDLR: Excuse me, Your Honor, I’m still processing.

      • ic2fools says:

        He can’t really he can’t, something is medically wrong with West. Its’ either stress related or his physical health. Man needs medical aide not legal aide.

        O’mara is too greedy and dirty to pull him out and get him help. Judge Nelson won’t hold West in contempt she see it too.

  197. What the hell is West trying to pull?

  198. The document referred to as Owen’s Report and provided to Dr. Wayman by Don West was not written by Tom Owen.

    Way to go, West.

  199. fauxmccoy says:

    listening intently and critically!

  200. ic2fools says:

    Here we go! West West West!!!!!! Sent a document and referred to it incorrectly so did Wayman.

  201. ROFLOL, The Tom Owen Report, that is not the Tom Owen Report!

  202. smokeegyrl says:

    Judge Nelson surely seems upset right about now… I mean really upset.

  203. Xena says:


  204. Oh my God, Owen did not author the document West gave to Wayman??

  205. Holy interuptus Batman. Calm down, West.

  206. ay2z says:

    West is up to form, losing docs again momentarily.

  207. chi1224 says:

    Fogen’s team is getting desperate…. I mean look at West, he is a wreck! lol

  208. concernedczen says:

    Has Judge Nelson been pressured by her colleagues to appear less pro-prosecution? Also wondering what the effect that DCA ruling would have on her.

  209. chi1224 says:

    West is losing it and JN is going with it because she knows in the end she will permit the expert audio testimony– IN MY OPINION

  210. ay2z says:

    just go back… wow already a jury!

    Now to get Tom Own on the screen.

  211. Tom Owen is on the stand.

  212. racerrodig says:

    One of the worst things for Fogen is an all female jury and none named Kat Sharps, Rene Stutzman or that Granny bigot from HP.

    Could be better……but it could have been 6 white male, racist NRA members that love Sundance Crackpot with brothers named Robbie.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Agree, Racer. These women can drop their lace hankies, bond over the mountain of evidence, and kick Fogen’s ass all the way to Raiford (or wherevr he’s assigned.)

    • Girlp says:

      I have concerns mostly over B-37 protest=rioting and B-29 having 8 kids at home under 20 may go along with whatever to get home. However the evidence IMO is strong and clearly Fogen is a huge liar…I’m assuming he will take the stand and what they see they won’t like and may even fear him walking the streets any time of day.

    • Sophia33 says:

      There is one older white woman on HP, who so wants GZ to (in her words) “fry”

  213. Sophia33 says:

    FYI…the Zimmerman lovers on HP are upset by the all female jury.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Whew – well, well.

    • rayvenwolf says:

      of course they are. Some of them are dense enough to believe one or more men would agree with how GZ handled things. Women? PFFT our ovaries make us inclined to be emotional and side with the prosecution.


      • Sophia33 says:

        That is the ILLogic right there. They are having a FIT.

        • rayvenwolf says:

          They actually do have a reason to be worried, but this is more based on science than bias. As a species we’re wired to judge age based on what we here in another’s voice. More so when it comes to the opposing gender/looking for a partner. From a scientific standpoint they are going to be more likely (and rightly) attribute the screams to trayvon over fogen. Having an expert say that there is no match to Fogen just puts a bow on this gift wrapped package.

      • Sophia33 says:

        Plus GZ’s own words in the interview where he didn’t recognize his own voice. Serino said, “That’s you?”. Zimmerman said “No”. Serino played the tape again and said, “That’s you?” Zimmerman said, “That doesn’t even sound like me”.

        • rayvenwolf says:

          Not to mention even after hearing the scream he didnt even TRY To match them when given his exemplars.

  214. Defendant excused for the hearing.

  215. Nef05 says:

    Has JN ordered a date for opening statements, yet?

  216. Rob says:

    Big boy looking afraid now!! He’s sweating his ass off!!!

  217. Two sides to a story says:

    Siete, ocho, nueve.

  218. Conference at the bench.

  219. ic2fools says:


  220. Does anyone have a picture and sound?

    I don’t.

  221. Sophia33 says:


  222. dremn2004 says:


  223. FactsFirst says:


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