Thursday, June 20, 2013
Good morning to the last day of Spring and the 9th day of liveblogging jury selection.
Here is your link to Fauxmccoy’s fabulous spreadsheet of the prospective jurors (PJs).
Here’s the link to the livestream coverage.
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbcnews.com/52117880/
Court resumes at 9 am EDT with the defense voir dire of the panel of 40.
See you in court.
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Frederick Leatherman Law Blog 
This case is very much divided along racial lines and there is no good reason that they couldn’t have seated at least one AA on the jury. The fact that they did not makes me very uncomfortable. Prior to this case I wouldn’t have thought much of it, but after all that the racist O’Mara, the Fogen family and his racist supporters have done I really have to wonder what’s really going on here.
B29 is an afro-latina woman just to let you know
New post up:
Zimmerman: All Female Jury Opening Statements Monday at 9 am
There’s a black hispanic on the jury of 6
Press asked him why he didn’t challenge the strike made against the AA juror.
This dud is really hoggin’ up, just loves the cameras. He’s trying to infer that the State is the reason for no AA’s being on the jury, mentioning the State struck the first AA.
Oh no he didn’t! He just accused the State of using their strikes to stop women from being on the jury.
I don’t know if this has been brought up recently, but it seems as though victims, dead or alive, don’t really have rights, especially the ones who can no longer speak for themselves.
I read where the State of Florida has Victim Impact Statements, but just how much weigh does it carry in cases like this?
Sleuth~ The professor addressed this once. The dead have no rights because, well, because they’re dead. The Victim Impact Statement is read AFTER the verdict, so it has zero weight for the trial.
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Well they do have to present some evidence to even have the self defense affirmative defense instruction considered for trial, otherwise it is not weighed at trial
If Nelson grants the instruction, Fogen will have to convince the jury it was justifiable, then the state would have to disprove their affirmative defense or show that it is unreasonable
I do agree with you though and I feel that to presume a dead person responsible with no evidence, by the person accusing the dead person, in this Fogen, would be unfair to Trayvon, as I believe he should have some presumption of innocence in the whole affair as well
What is Rule 403?
So, basically The Wiester is calling Reich a quack, and the just seated jurors, ignorant.
You know, come to think of it, an all-female jury may be just what the doctor ordered, what with Zimmerman’s past domestic violence issues.
You bring up a good point. Although the confessed murderer said he was in agreement with the chosen jurors, he was basically saying yes as it pertain to NOT having any AA’s on the jury.
Oh yes, the women will listen and analyze all the evidence as women do. Once the idiot takes the stands to explain his 5 different versions of how he stalked, confronted, detained and then killed an unarmed teen in self defense will be the day he might as well just cuff himself and head straight to that underground passage to lock-up.
@MrSykes
Remember too that the jury will hear that Fogen turned off his mothers’ lights and locked her utility the box, and his ex-fiancee testify about domestic abuse.
Only trouble is E6, I have faith she will change her views.
The Wiester and O’Dirty are the ones who make up shyte as they go along.
The Wiester really needs to stop telling lies.
Reich was not the only one who would state the confessed murderer and Trayvon were having a conversation, so will several of the witnesses.
been watching HLN coverage and Vinnie P’s talking of the re-enactment…he repeatedly says that the re-enactment occurred two days later. That is irresponsible reporting and it gives those ignorant to the real facts an opportunity to justify inconsistencies in his retelling.
First of all, the reenactment was NOT a reenactment. If it were, he would have had to get ON the ground where he claims to have been dominated and he would have had to pull the “the gun” from a holster at his hip while someone was “mounted” on him. Etc. It was a little video, not a reenactment. Second of all it took place about 22-23 hours after the murder.
I don’t know how folks here can watch HLN. I’ve tuned in recently, since they’ve been “covering” this murder case. The shows are all SUCH BS!
This trial is going to be out of control. She will be forced to put West in his place once and for all. OMG…
Where is West’s place?
Surely not anywhere in that courtroom!
Gawd!
Someplace, anyplace. Possibly a jail cell for contempt if he can’t control himself. Don’t think she would have an outburst like that in front of the jury…… I see a cell in his future…
Nelson and the witness both have had enough of West.
Processing….
The moron is still processing things that were said last week!
West SHUT UP! JN needs to hit him in head with gavel.
Was he about to start crying? Ahahahahahahaha, such an idiot!
Tracy Martin says it’s very difficult to sit in the courtroom with Zimmerman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_cXfb1_Ijo …
Hearing Tracy speak about his son is so emotional for me that I can only imagine what his pain must feel like and probably not even come close. There will be justice because those smart women on the jury will listen and analyze all the evidence and come out with the only verdict there could possibly be.
I am still confused as to if the killer will take the stand or not and if he has to in order to prove self defense. How will the jury measure his allegedly being scared enough for his life to kill an unarmed teen after locking his wrist, aiming his pistol and then shooting the kid in the heart? The jurors all sound reasonable to me to understand that they must look at the evidence presented and base their verdict on that evidence.
SB2~ NO doubt. I’d want to KILL that bastard every single day.
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Thank gawd she shut this down.
wtf? What are we talking about? What is this paper he is trying to get this guy to talk about?
Go home West, you’re drunk
JN face was priceless as West stood to speak one long and final time! She put the brakes on that mess! He always going on and on about nothing! LOL
Screw that. He should have to stay. Who’s trial is it? Is this matter not important to him?
I have confidence that the jury will pay attention to the evidence. Think of it: FL jury of all women, all white but one Hispanic, convicts a white Hispanic for killing a black teen. Progress.
Another point: if it’s necessary for an alternate or two, we’re looking at the addition of one or two men, one white, one bi-racial(?) Trust the jury.
@bettykath, I reckon that’s all we can do at this point, so I’m on board with that!
One thing I’ve observed is how the cameras stay focused mostly on gz & his families side of the court. I know they are constrained by not being able to show jurors, but gosh. It really is the george zimmerman show. It all about his trial, his legal team, his parents there/not there, his wife’s hair style du jour, etc. Its kind of sickening & the reason he is in this boat in the 1st place. He feels like he can control everything and everybody, & its all about him and what he wants.
Who posted his astrological chart? I couldn’t find it in the archives, Can you please post it again?
Weird eye movement, Fogen.
I’ve noticed that, too. My sister also mentioned it yesterday and said the same thing you did…weird. Sumpin’s wrong with him.
One side question before we get into it, how did sr. Get married to a catholic woman in a catholic ceremony when he was divorced? I thought was not acceptable to the church?
If his previous marriage wasn’t solemnized in a Catholic church it doesn’t count, nor does the divorce.
Right.
annulments can be purchased. my ex- got married in a catholic church (don’t know that he’s ever been in any church and certainly not a catholic one) to a woman who had been married for several years and had two teenage boys. She was able to get an annulment after her divorce.
I understood they wouldn’t give annulment if there was a child. How can you (is word nullify) a child. Wow
Woah! I never heard about that. DId he have children with the first wife? Has anybody heard about or from the first wife?
I searched records in Va. Quite a while back and could not even find a parking ticket I could tie to an ex-wife. I did find several records that looked to be someone being committed to an institution but since I am a dunce at times, I lost where I found it and am again looking to see. I wrote down the name Denise but not sure. Could not understand why we have not heard even a name of the ex.
Yes Fogen’s half sister Dawn is from that marriage.
Leisa~ If she’s smart, she’s stayed away from this whole mess. Maybe, cuz I’ve never heard that name before.
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Michael Skolnick says:
E-28: A middle-aged white woman who works as a nurse. She knew little about the case and has no opinion about Zimmerman’s guilt.B-72: A young hispanic male who does maintenance at a school and competes in arm wrestling tournaments. He said he avoids the news because he does not want to be “brainwashed.”E-13: A young white woman who goes to college and works two jobs. She heard the shooting was a “racial thing.”E-54: A middle-aged white man with a teenage stepson who wears hoodies. He recalled seeing photos of Zimmerman’s head and face that show injuries.—–
Bill S. criticizing JN for reading the instructions written by O’Mara.
Well, surely it was a set of agreed instructions or else BDLR would have objected, just my .02. Did Bill S. have an issue with some specific wording?
I sort of agree, but for different reason. It was premature to be that specific about jury instructions or any specific evidence.
At the very least, JN should have made it very clear that the jury instruction might NEVER even apply – and we won’t know until after the evidence is presented. Because, unless there’s EVIDENCE ADMITTED of “justified” homicide, the jury won’t ever get that instruction – so they don’t need to learn much about it now.
Hey Faux… you have on the spread sheet that one of the Alternates is bi-racial and male. and the news is reporting him as white. I’m confused.
News is reporting him as Hispanic.
yeah I seen that too…
thanks, smokee — there was certainly conflicting information on some of this and i just had to go with what seemed most reliable. i fully expect that there are some errors, but i did my best.
I think he is Hispanic… in ethnicity but white in race… lol no problemo
One issue with an all-woman jury is that may believe GZ was actually really hurt when looking at the bloody pictures
there is a couple medical people on jury. That won’t fly and a woman knows a paper cut from a cut that needs stitches. A woman knows when a booboo needs a kiss and when one requires immediate attention to a M.D.
agreed – i have nursed far worse wounds on my relatively mild mannered daughters during various spats. one of them at 6 months actually broke my nose with a well aimed kick when having a diaper change.
mammas know a whole lot about these kinds of things.
Plus medical people like myself have treated injuries that were from real life threatening situations, and they are NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING like Fogen’s non-needing a band-aid bullshit! Bottom line is Fogen was not the one in danger, EVER, and his superficial scrapes most likely came from falling to the ground as he tried to “detain” his “suspect”
whonoze — mothers know about bloody noses. His little booboos are going to get snickers.
beyond that — giving birth is not exactly a pristine process. i’m ok with an all female jury.
TO, you’re so right! Between my two sons, I’ve seen more blood than a vampire could ever hope for and not a single injury was serious. I remember when one of my sons fell and hit his head on a nail which was sticking up out of the ground and the copious amount of blood there was. A trip to the emergency room required nothing but cleaning, a tetanus shot and, if I recall correctly, a butterfly bandage for a small puncture wound, but it bled like he’d been scalped. Lots of boys and calm mothers in my family, so when I saw fogen’s boo-boos, I thought “big deal” and knew he was full of bs. I think he was chasing Trayvon and slipped on wet grass and smacked his head on something, maybe a sprinkler head, for instance. Or he did it to himself. He’s such a liar and I can’t stand him.
At first, maybe. The stories, other evidence, etc. will shed light on how superficial the injuries are.
My fear too whonoze, no male to explain what being punched up really means !
Let’s wait and see if defense even brings that pic in trial, because it’s def shopped and if i saw it with my naked eye- immediately w/i seconds, i have to believe the state has proved it WOAD!
After 4 children, seeing a very bloody head no longer makes my heart race. I have learned it is always looks worse than it is and bleeds like crazy for a small cut or scrape. No worries!
Strike the is in that sent acne.
Forget it. Fingers will not cooperate today. Sorry.
Doubt it. Most women aren’t freaked out at the site of a little blood.
There’s a good reason for that. 😉
whonoze~ NOT A CHANCE! As moms, I’m SURE they’ve seen plenty worse, just from a game of tag!
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well, my spreadsheet seems to measure up well with that used by WFTV and the judge’s scribbled notes … so i’ve got that going for me 🙂
hope it is clear — i color coded jurors. green are in, red are gone, blue are alternates
Congrats, and thanks. I wasn’t able to open it, though. Guess I’ll have to cave and allow cookies. Is that safe? Thx.
Hey you guys, is anyone else not seeing the Frye hearing? Are they in session?
‘yawn’ west needed a recess. a smoke break or something i’m guessing 😉 nelson too seems to have a smoker’s cough and i’m positive that is nicotine gum she’s got on board.
LOL
Okay, and thanks, @whonoze, on my headphones, there is faint talking in the background, so maybe they didn’t get the sound all the way off.
Not yet.
Channel 9 still has two talking heads (Shaeffer plus) yakking, waiting for the Frye
Thank you, Trained Observer.
Professor, Crane, ladies and gentlemen of the blog — Have just missed (when the boss, calls CC@$$#&, you gotta answer) final action on strikes, but I understand it’s looking like an all female jury.
Some of you may not like this, but I’m not at all discouraged. Women can be tough.
On the 12-person M1 jury I was on, 11 were female. When the lone male (truly a wimp despite being a Viet vet) suggested we should let the white gang shooter go, despite the fact that he’d hidden a gun in his school locker and went across the street at lunch to shoot a an unarmed black ganger …. we nearly punched him out on the spot. He folded quickly. We convicted of manslaughter, but came close to M1, but the shooter was a teen — not 28 like Fogen.
On the all female civil jury, the defense never knew what hit them.
Am looking forward to reviewing, to see what I missed. I would like some men on this jury, but women can get the job done.
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Yes We Can.
I think 5 mothers can handle this, even if they are white. I am white and I do not give two shits about Fogen. My heart is with Trayvon and his family. The one who is not a mother I believe is very close to Trayvon’s age. Again I think. There is a couple of medical people on the JURY they can explain his non-life threatening injuries. I would rather have 5 white women then a male any day. Just because women think of their own children.
Great post, and I totally agree with you. Also same here, I am a white mother and what I want here is justice for Trayvon! Period!
ps- I am also a nurse, so like the medical people on the jury I take note that Fogen didn’t need so much as a bandaid that night… justice is coming
And think of other people’s children too.
However, dads do too. But Fogen invoked God’s Plan. I think we got it. I think we’ll see whowhatwherewhy&how very soon.
I do too. concerned about a stealth.
Even if there is 1 stealth that leaves 5 women to nag the hell out of them. Women can nag like no other. A stealth does not worry me, common sense will prevail. Trayvon deserves Justice and he will get it. Believe me when it comes to Florida and a jury pool I get scared but I feel good going into this one. Women will not care as much about a self defense law as they will a kid who ran from a grown man.
@disappointed.
Uh — that sounds like Don West. LOL!!
What would happen if there is a stealth. Say she is completely unwilling to listen or consider any facts to make a decision. Can a jury member notify the judge and report her or does that just mean hung jury and we do it all again?
Xena- That is what my husband says when I say are you sure? He says yes every time I ask something. Just because if he says no I will nag. LOL
You know, I really hope you are right. But you know the defense is going to play up the relationship between Fogen and his own mom in the battle for the sympathy vote. Let’s hope they identify more towards Trayvon’s mother.
MrSykes~ “relationship”?? You mean where gz cut off her electricity then locked the converter box? THAT relationship?
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so if they do play it up how many Moms will like a son turning off his owns mother’s electricity? This works both ways, imo she should have beat his ass more often.
MrSykes — Juror aren’t going to give a flying fuck about Fogen’s relationshiip with his mumsy. Not unless the State can show Gladazz ordered the hit.
What relationship? They did not speak at all for can’t recall how many years. He cut off her electricity and left her with no way to restore it. I don’t know any women who with that information would feel any sympathy towards that woman at all.
Disappointed, I disagree with you. I think Gladys should have beaten his a55 LESS often; he’d have grown up closer to normal. I have a wonderful kid whose a55 I never beat; I gave him three swats once when he was 2-1/2 and rode his trike RIGHT INTO THE STREET! and he screamed bloody murder for over five minutes straight with his mouth wide open and tears just FLYING out of his eyes! (not from pain, from humiliation!) But if I had done stuff like that more often, he wouldn’t have even NOTICED those three swats. As it was, he NEVER rode his trike, his bike, or anything else into the street ever again!
Abusive parents do end up with kids who believe it’s OK for them to be abusive to others. I think that probably defines not only Gladys but Senior as well. Just guessing but it is an educated guess.
I recall Trayvon having several generations of names tattooed on his body.
I also recall GZ having names tattooed also, none of which was Gladys.
You got it to a T!
disappointed, you got it to a T.
I’d rather have 5 white women than 5 white men in the jury. But I don’t think it was a wise decision to have no AA on the jury for this particular case. The defense had 3 AA’s struck from this jury. Nelson shouldn’t have felt pressured to deny the two strikes for the prosecution.
I guess it was 2 by the defense. Still 100 % of AA pj were struck. That just doesn’t look good.
I hope you’re right. But I used to be an RN, and I worked in neonatal ICU with ALL women. Intelligent, highly-trained women. They all could take excellent care of the sickest of newborns; extremely competent. But it could get ridiculously ugly between/among them for no genuine reason.
Since then I’ve worked in predominantly male, all female, and very mixed gender environments. In my experience, all-female work groups were always dysfunctional. The others were not.
I wish it weren’t true, but that has been my experience.
groans~ HORMONES getting in sync!
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Professor did you want to strike B29 for any other reason than hardship?
Tentative age breakdown (ages courtsy of–shudder! TCTH:
Jurors:
1 in her 30s
1 in her 40s
3 in their 50s
1 in her 60s
:Alternates:
2 in their 20s
1 in his 50s
1 in his 60s
I would have liked to have seen at least one youngster on the jury, but they were too far down the list.
Did any Black/AA people make it on the jury?
Unfortunately no.
B29 was originally described as black, so I am assuming she is “black hispanic”
that is my understanding as well
Afro- Peruvian?
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
That’s what the TV is reporting (don’t know what channel my husband has on).
I hope the state is ready, they appear to be more so than the defense… fireworks start monday, hoping for no duds!!
The defense seems so much more prepared for jury selection.
the guy sheafer just said both sides could’ve used more strikes to get down deeper into the pool
Well, then, he’s wrong AGAIN. Because the judge WOULDN’T LET the state use their strikes! Maybe Sheafer slept through that part?
I’m so confused right now.. and like in shocked… that they ousted E-22…
BLACK! But O’Mara’s excuse is her pastor was very vocal in his support of Trayvon.
They should have specifically looked up her testimony before the judge suggested off the top of her head that this woman was not honest.
If this juror was not specifically asked about her pastor’s feelings, etc…then it is not fair to hold it against her.
Nelson blew that one, big time!
Gah the channel 9 expert just referred to an African male and an African female. Minus American. Slip of the tongue probably but he did it twice.
I heard that. Bill Shaeffer is an asshole and completely biased.
What happened?
Yes, even though he does try to hide it.
I’m going to start a new thread for the Frye hearing.
Fred will put up a new post for the Frye hearing, please be patient for just a moment.
I Hispanic on the Jury poll and 1 bi-racial The Carol G Hate room over on Facebook is happy that E-6 stayed… and really happy that E-22 was ousted… Is not happy that all are female.
Unless E6 is the smartes, stealth, pro Tray juror yet, I don’t have a good feeling about her.
What was it about E6 that people didn’t like?
Whew! Sure glad this phase is over.
O’Mara’s team was scurrying around like a bunch of cockroaches when the lights come on.
We have all weekend to send out positive energy to Bernie before his opening statement. Justice for Trayvon!
thanks Xena. i don’t pray but i do believe in energy so i think i’ll actually do some exercise and get more sleep to get more energy to send it to BDLR and the whole team!!
@Shannon.
Hey Shannon. I do both. 🙂 Also, I believe that people should discern between the need to pray as opposed to when power and authority has been given to us to overcome mountains. There’s a law in the universe not to climb or pray for strength to climb mountains but speak to it, instructing it to get the heck out of our way. May all mountains of dishonesty, bigotry, prejudice, unrighteous judgment , and everything that comes against the truth be removed and cast into the sea.
So it is spoken. So shall it be done.
I don’t think the state should have stricken the black male juror. That was foolish. At least make the defense do it.
If they hadn’t done it and we got a verdict of ‘not guilty’ then the other side could always say, “Well there was a black person on the jury”. I think it was wise of the state to do that.
He was a law and order marine corps prig who doesn’t like Al Sharpton. Also a concealed carry pistol owner. As much as I wish there were some blacks on the jury I’m glad he’s out.
concernedczen — i suspect the defense would have wanted him based on his ‘law n order’ attitude, former marine, ccw permit. look at the chart i made, in spite of his race, he made many comments that lead me to think he would not be good for the state.
With one exception, all of the jurors are mothers.
I don’t believe that’s good news for the defense.
That’s encouraging.
agree
Wow!
likewise — look how many of us here are women and mothers!
Question, are they going home tonight, or are they sequestered?
looks like they get a 3 day weekend to get their ‘stuff’ together. opening statements on monday morning.
Thank you!
She better be sequestering them immediately. It would be wrong to send them home over the weekend so they can find out which side didn’t want them
I sure wouldn’t want MY jury to be all female. I genuinely would not.
As a female, I wouldn’t want my jury to be all female either, if I was on trial – so maybe that’s a good thing.
I’m sure he is confident in an all female jury because the two most important females in his life are so supportive and telling him that white women won’t convict him for killing a black. Daddy is telling him this as well so he does not have enough sense to be frightened.
I can hear SZ like on the jail calls, oh cutie pie you are gonna have a great life……
Yes! finally, lets get this trial started! GZ is looking worried!
I think women would sympathize with Sabrina and with how they would feel if there child just went to the convenient store and came home dead. This might not be good for the defense. And Zimmerman doesn’t look good.
I agree. When this case first broke I thought of my own son, and the horror of him running into an unstable psycho copwannabe like Zimmerman…
@Sophia33. Not wanting to offend anyone, but O’Mara might as well shred those photos of GZ with blood, because most women see more blood than that on a monthly basis. They will have no effect in justifying self-defense.
Wow! I didn’t expect that.
As a child/teen I had 6 stitches twice in my head. (I blame the ADHD. lol) Mom handled it like a trooper. Dad’s saying was always, “Too far from your heart to kill ya.” That saying takes on a whole new meaning in this instance. Sadly, GZ knew a hole in TM’s heart was no equivalent for those head boo boo’s yet he pulled the trigger anyways. (After aiming, making sure he missed his other hand and being sure to get under the photo button.)
@Xena, OH HELL YEAH! i never even thought of THAT, but i know that’s right!
But why hasn’t anyone said anything about that shopped pic of his face taken by the neighbor!?!?
i haven’t noticed omar flapping it around for awhile. but i purposely avoid watching him on tv or whatever.
@Shannon.
The taking of that photo does not correspond with GZ’s story. When your client doesn’t mention the photo being taken, how is O’Mara suppose to explain that omission?
Wow your video just cleared up ALL confusion I had about what happened right before TSmith *clocks* in!
Thank you!
To me your videos are very nuanced. Like opening a present slowly.
I have to concentrate and watch some a couple times before I actually *get it*!
That’s because most of what you come up with go WAY over my head!! Lol
I found new ones so I’ve been watching some of them tonight! Thank you xena!
@Shannon.
You have no idea how precious your comment is and how important it is to me. You see, there are some videos intended for the viewer to ponder the answer or what it means based on the content. It follows the “show and not tell” approach.
I don’t want to tell viewers that GZ is guilty but show them through his own words. Got another video in the works but right now, I’m tired. Listening to Don West for 5 minutes is enough to make me want to sleep for the next 50 years. LOL!
shannoninmiami~ Just be glad Xena doesn’t charge admission!
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LOL@cielo62.
Them thar are cat fight words. 🙂
Yes and Jon Manalo is out there meeting “Frightening Stranger and Armed Killer Gunman” in the dark, with the gun still in his hand, and asks him to kneel down so the picture can be taken? This is the guy who has, what looks like a blood stain on his garage door frame. He’s out there being chummy with the gunman he doesn’t know, supposedly, and is ready, willing and able to call the gunman’s wife when asked.
Pity Bernie isn’t going to need all this evidence. He’ll have more than enough to put on his case already, and so much more to impeach any case the defense tries to put on, all they can reasonably do is remain silent. Two days? Three tops, since the defense has nothing they can use, that won’t make things even worse than they are.
Does anyone here know what the defense can put on, that would not be so quickly and easily knocked down, that the defense would look foolish and disrespectful for having tried to put it on?
I don’t see a defense! But that’s just me. I would, however, like to be informed of what the defense might be.
I would like to have seen at least 1 AA, male or female. I really would have preferred G81. My only hope is that the jury consist of all females… mothers & nurturers
I am disappointed in BDLR’s performance during this final jury selection.
He’s nowhere near as aggressive as O’Mara. But I think he doesn’t sweat stuff as much as O’Mara, either – he’s more confident in general, and has probably “seen it all” and dealt with it all in his gazillions of criminal trials over the decades. He can deal with whatever comes up along the way.
Yeah, I agree with you. BDLR has a reassuring confidence and a strong case. My concern is when they go into that deliberation room, which of them will have understood the evidence and has the passion to fight for Justice for Trayvon. Can these jurors relate to / empathize with an AA family and victim.
I am concerned.
They don’t have to sympathize, empathize or “feel” anything one way or another. That’s what EVIDENCE is for. They can sympathize with Fogen (“Poor guy should have known better”) and empathize with Fogen (“Oh gee, I would have been feeling terrible if I got charged with a crime!”) and they can whistle in the rain without any feeling at all when they contemplate the fact that an unarmed Black kid was killed. BUT they have to do their duty to the State of Florida. That means they have to listen to the evidence (Fogen saw, PROFILED, followed, scared, confronted and shot dead an unarmed kid while his mind was depraved by the thought that he was entitled to administer his own form of justice to a suspicious “a55hole” who did not respond to him as he wished and while he was exercising ill will) and listen to the jury instructions (You must not make your decision based on impressions of whether or not the victim blah blah blah but only on the evidence and “reasonable doubt” means doubt that a reasonable person would have about the evidence) etc. etc.
Will those two white women who were not “keepers” on BDLR’s list be willing to totally disregard the evidence AND the jury instructions and furthermore be able to sway the four “keepers” to completely give up all good sense and proper citizen’s conduct and just say, “Well Hell the kid was no good who cares if the guy murdered him”? I DON’T THINK SO.
I think we’re doing fine here. I don’t think we have a jury that will nullify the law of the State of Florida. I don’t think we have a jury of KKK members in disguise as relatively normal white women. I think we need to bring down our upset that there were some peculiar rulings here, trust Judge Nelson, trust these six women who are our fellow Americans (except you, LeaNder and you, Amsterdam and you, Aussie and you, Jun) and keep cheering for BDLR to do what he knows how to do.
IOW I think we’re doing fine. I wish that on 2/26/2012, Trayvon Martin had ONE PERCENT of the good luck we have today, getting ready for the trial that has proven already that there IS some semblance of law in Florida.
Thanks, Malisha! Please feel free to keep “talking me down” whenever you feel so inclined.
I can’t believe he was surpised by the juror who posted her summons on FB and they didn’t do research to find out about the ladies church. Further, O’Mara has no proof the lady read the article her church posted or was present for a Sermon so BDLR didn’t fight enough for her BUT, the good news is they are gone so tha reduces the chances of a successful appeal.
I wanted G81 or either E22. I’m disappointed they didn’t get on.
Yesh me too. I guess AA are not Fogen’s peers…
West looks like he doesn’t know where he is.
What this says to me is that the defense thinks women are stupid.
I think they’re scared of men. ones who will roll the window down to talk to Trayvon. “hey, I’m on night watch patrol, you need help?”
They’re hoping for the “I’m scared like George” female crowd.
Maybe not stupid, but maybe more easily manipulated. Women are raised to want to please, to want to keep the peace, to enable. Omara is counting on being able to trick them with straw men & red herrings.
Well perhaps THEIR wives, daughters and mothers ARE.
I still believe the confessed murderer will be convicted, and found GUILTY.
If you look at the post from last night, three of the jurors that were listed as Keepers made it. One was only considered for dismissal because of heard ship. So the Defense only got two of the 6 jurors.
That’s a positive way of looking at it! I also trust women to follow jury instructions more than men. Some of the most vocal, diehard, butt-stubborn Fogen supporters are men.
If the one considered for dismissal for cause of hardship, that would have been B29, the Hispanic nurse from Chicago with 8 kids under 20. I am not saying she will but I would not be surprised if she still gets excused.
In the case one does get excused for whatever reason I wonder which of the alternates would sit ?
OOoooWEeeeee! I bet they’ve got some stories to tell!
Well Professor you got 3 keepers on. do you think E-6 will be the foreman?
Three keepers. Plus B29 was only considered to be removed because of hardship. B29 is from Chicago. So that might me they are a little more forward thinking.
I’m sure that she knows what life is like in a REAL high crime neighborhood.
I’d be happier with at least 1 or 2 men on the jury to provide insight into normal male behavior in a street encounter.
I agree Dave
Women have sons and brothers and husbands. They’re not totally clueless about male behavior.
Not clueless. I just think that a variety of perspectives would be useful.
Me too, ideally. But – hey – Fogen summoned God’s Plan and that’s exactly what he got!
youre so right. that really would help to show what a cowardly POS gz is if a man were to explain why he thinks gz should’ve never gone after a young kid and should’ve exercised way more self control ( AS A MAN) since he’s the grown up here and the one with a gun , thus the one who’s completely responsible for everything that happened that night!
I would, too, Dave – and for more reasons just that one you mention.
I agree.
Anyway this is what he have. There are some good members on that jury.
Not one Black juror.
I am totally disgusted with how little Bernie stuck up for them.
In the end, he didnt lose a relative or his white privilege. He can just say that he did his best and lost. He has no skin in the game one way or another. You win some, you lose some.
Thanks Xena, but what if there’s no reason to appeal?
I hope you’re right of course.
@degraveegmail.com.
It’s common for defendants to appeal convictions. At least here, Bernie has removed the racial aspect of prejudice as a basis.
@degraveegmailcom. Bernie took away the defense’s power to argue race in the event of an appeal.
Warfare is knowing your enemy’s weapons and ammunition. Destroying their ammunition renders their weapons useless.
If god forbid he is aquitted I meant then he would not appeal.
Fogen’s looking worried. That’s a good sign.
GZ is toxic, and any jurors who might lean his way will be affected by his toxicity.
Indeed. We’ve watched how that works that past 18 months.
@Two sides. Exactly! We should not forget the positive energy that resulted in GZ’s arrest. There is no room for fear in this — just continue overcoming fear and lies with truth.
He’s faking. He only started sweating when they discussed black jurors, the greasy pig.
Jury of our peers my ass. Are any of these women CCW’S? Do they understand that a gun carrier will not go anywhere they don’t want to gun because the gun provides authority? She’d better allow the voice Experts or I’m tuning out to keep from going beserk.
Very bad for this trial not to have a single back juror on it. I think Nelson should’ve taken that into consideration and struck two wf.
Yes, exactly. It’s not like white females are a protected class here…most of the potentials were white females.
She should have at minimum allowed Bernie to strike all of the WF’s that he wanted to with the PE’s.
Exactly. Nelson was just plain foolish on those calls.
She got bamboozled – and I’d bet money she will be bamboozled throughout trial. I had given her more credit than that, but I don’t have much confidence in her at all, now.
I agree and I’m worried about how she is going to preside over this case going forward.
Yes, I am frustrated. Nothing we can do about it. I have faith GZ will be found guilty.
The only thing that worries me is that if Fogen gets a hung jury, the blame will have to fall on WOMEN! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!
We can take it. But heaven forbid.
I say we can shoulder the blame for convicting him. ; – )
I seen the smile on Hirshhorn’s face.
Anything that makes him smile, I don’t like.
Also, when BDLR added another object for E-6, he looked kind of defeated and not like his usual passionate self. Didn’t like that message I got from that, either. But, I’m still processing (is West contagious?), so it’s gonna take me a while to absorb the nuances of this selection.
Wow, I’ve never seen an all female jury.
I think this is great for the state.
why is it great for the state (Florida, state at that…lol)
because they have kids?
HLN just reported that 5 of the jurors are moms with children around Trayvon’s age.
Xena~ YES YES YES!! No wonder gz is worried!
________________________________
@cielo62.
GZ is worried because he is looking at a future in prison. ShelLIE is following right behind.
I look forward to an article on this jury, Prof. Like others, I am still processing this selection and I’m not quite sure what to make of it, yet.
For 5 white women to convict George in Florida and send a message to the SYG community?
I’m going to go completely wishful thinking/delusional and say that the state’s case is so strong that the jury could be made up of Martians and they would still convict. If this jury does convict, it will be difficult to argue against the verdict based on jury composition.
@nixonsreindeer. I agree!
Very disappointed Nelson felt she had to strike a balance. I don’t think any of these jurors individually is an unsurmountable problem, but I am concerned with the group as a whole. It just seems very unbalanced to me.
O’Mara is hiding something about the jury
Can’t believe the state hasnt found a way to 86 E6! I smelled a rat since yesterday!
Refresh my memory, but what was so bad about E6?
E86 is out.
E6 is in. Slow talker, bad rapport with BDLR, said profiling can be okay based on how someone is dressed.
“86” is a colloquial term meaning “get rid of”, generally used in restaurants regarding spoiled food, now used also in common language. Tasha is asking why the state didn’t find a way to get rid of E-6.
Thanks Nef05
It is those damn colloquials that get you as a non native speaker.
Hopefully state’s evidence is strong enough to influence even that one.
Professor, did Judge Nelson seem fair to you in how she handled this? All of the black jurors were stricken; yet the state was prevented from striking 2 white females.
Same question!
If I am not mistaken, there is not an equivalence for protected class for females and blacks in the jury setting. The case Fred mentions is relevant specifically for Blacks and not being excluded for race alone. This may address your concern about the same standard not be applied….but I could be wrong, of course.
Omara is way too content with the jury
this shit seems so weird, i’m concerned about a stealth in all the TV shows that are covering this case it seemed more older white women were the biggest zimmerlovers.. more so than older white males.
Tzar~ It won’t do him any good, though.
________________________________
true
Alternates: 2 males and 2 females.
I am also a 50 yr old white woman and you know my vote.
West looks lost.
O’Dirty is full of poop. He called out the name of E-28’s church, didn’t he?
Why all women? And why did MOM object to white women being excused when 5 out of 6 are white?
The jury is very unbalanced.
Shut up MOM, the judge knows to get rid of the PJ information.
He’s the main one leaking information.
omg so what did that lady juror say about Trayvon being expelled?? this is one of the jury members or alturnates?
it’s taking me 10 minutes to type cas my hands are shaking so bad i cant do it… i’m sick
don’t worry that one is OUT
OK wait i’m getting two different answers. were there actually 2 women who commented about Tray being suspended?
I don’t think so… I only know of one and she was successfully STRUCK OUT
K, luv ya~!!LOL
hang in there, justice is coming and it’s about damn time!
The one who said something about him being expelled was stuck.
Something along the lines of it he hadn’t been expelled he wouldn’t have been in Sanford and this wouldn’t have happened. Yes, yes is on the jury because Judge Nelson did not allow ASA de la Rionda’s strike.
OMFG!!! NOT THAT ONE??? SHE WAS THE ABSOLUTE WORSE ONE IN THE WHOLE BUNCH., THAT WAS THE MOST DISCUSTING COMMENT MADE BY ANYONE THAT OPENED THEIR MOUTH IN THE PROCESS OF JURY SELECTION!! PLEASE TELL ME YOU ARE MISTAKEN????
No, that one is OUT
Prof…what in the hell does all of this mean? I am getting nervous and that makes me angry.
I disagree with JN… if there’s any doubt I would have thought it fairer to allow the strike… but IANAL and IMBW
IMO this could be called shopping “shopping for jurors”.
Both sides must shop for jurors.
Remember, though, there’s going to be a TRIAL.
IMO both shopping is just twice as bad.
The State strikes were refused more than the defence’s so as it stands if I am correct according to Faux’s chart we have:
JURORS
6 females (NO MALES)
5 married, 1 single
3 middle aged, 2 elderly, 1 young
5 whites, one Hispanic (NO blacks)
1 with 0 kids, 2 with kids under 20, 3 with kids over 20
1 has 8 kids under 20 (don’t know how not excused for hardship), 1 has 2 kids under 20 (told them not to go out at night), 1 has a 24 yr old pet groomer and a 27 yr old student, 1 has a 28 attorney and a 26 yr old CNA, 1 has a son 28 and 1 has 0 kids.
1 calls protests “riots”, i.e. tends to exaggerate, 1 advised kids not to go out at night, IMO not the right lesson for this case, 1 said “gun went off”, so very sanitised, 1 heard teenager was killed, and nothing much from the rest.
With no males I fear the women will be much more impressionable to GZ’s “injury” pics; with no blacks I fear that none will understand what black kids have to deal with; with mainly middle to elderly they will be much less understanding of Trayvon and much more grateful to the super-GZ patrolling the neighbourhood keeping everyone safe.
At this moment a very worried and concerned Frederick Leatherman’s Law Blog poster.
I REALLY HOPE I AM WRONG TO WORRY.
The state really wants E-6 off
They need to digg a little further
Very disgusted with Judge Nelson right now.
x2!
Me too. She sure played the fool to O’Mara’s pretenses – with the result being an all-white, all-female jury?
Gotta give O’Mara credit for this incredible score on his part!
Does E-28 know S. Z, Shel-lie Zimmerman?
ALTERNATES
E-54
B-72
E-13
E-28
JURY
B-29
B-76
B-37
B-51
E-6
E-40
I can’t even write as fast as JN reads! LOL!
omfg ALL the news channels are reporting the jury is picked!
All female jury.
That could work out just fine.
Yeah but who will they sympathize with most, Fogen’s mom or Trayvon’s mom?
Mothers will think of their own children and how they would react if some creepo like Zimmerman tried to detain them for no reason…
But which PJ’s did each win or lose… seems BDLR lost out here !
For those worried about the jury I want to say I am a white woman, age 50, and I want justice for TRAYVON!! Keep the faith, as long as there are no stealth Zimbots the evidence will show the truth!
me, too Chi1224, but this is not right! an all female jury
I know it does seem odd hinkster but I think we are stuck with it… now all we can do is hope they are sane, smart and fair.
ps- thinking of your name- did you used to go to the hinky meter blog? If so, I so loved that blog 🙂
Such a historic case should have a different demo. ON the other hand – a conviction would speak loud and clear!
I too am white with a mixed, international family.
Chi: Are you from Chicago? One of the jurors is from Chicago. Also one is from Iowa. Perhaps some modern thinking will prevail.
I’m from Pittsburgh, and then spent 15 in Youngstown, OH.. now in FL… at this point I’m just hoping they are all smart and no closet racists. If we have that then this case is a slam dunk. The actual evidence speaks VOLUMES, and shows what really happened here.
It’s the ‘as long as’ that concerns me…I male alternate?
chil224~ same here. 51, white hispanic and gz is a guilty SOB!
________________________________
Yep!!
I also white & older than 60 and what fogen to spend the rest of his days behind bars and the truth about what happened to be “in the news”.
Typos, I also am white, and want fogen to spend the rest of his days
Can’t believe BDLR dropped the ball on E-22. Why didn’t he get himself some paralegals like O’Dirty to do social media background checks,
I know. The state seems inept after this. They did no research.
Alternates: E-54, B-72, E-13, E-28
Defense challenges M-75 State objects as a pretextural gender and race strike, State withdraws objection. M-75 is stricken.
State challenges defense strike of E-22. State objects to defense strike as a pretextural gender and race strike. State’s objection denied, E-22 is stricken
Defense objects to 4 strikes by the State.
B-12: challenged by the defense as a pretextural gender strike: Objection Denied
B-86: challenged by the defense as a pretextural gender strike: Objection Denied
E-6: challenged by the defense as a pretextural gender strike: Objection Granted
B-76: challenged by the defense as a pretextural gender strike: Objection Granted
How could she grant that when most of the potentials are white women. Of course most of the ones he wants to strike will be white women.
With so few black jurors, it should be obvious that the person doing the discriminatory striking is O’mara since he has managed to strike every black juror.
Yup. O’Mara won this critical stage of the trial, and the jury consultant is feeling great cuz he earned his keep.
The trial is now OFFICIALLY RACIAL – i.e., racially biased … THANKS TO JUDGE NELSON falling into O’Mara’s BS trap!
Ah the wisdom of solomon… Cut the baby in half.
Yup – except Solomon used his wisdom to ascertain who truly loved the baby. Nelson actually DID cut the baby in half! She will probably look back on her decision with regrets, since it was not rational/logical.
Does not appear as though there will be any AA’s on jury.
Nope. None.
@Sophia33
I still believe he will be found GUILTY. God does not see color, but I do believe He knows what evil and wrong are.
Seems the defence had concentrated on doing their homework on black jurors to eliminate them… doesn’t seem fair to me.
@gbrbsb
I totally agree with you. As much as I hate to admit it, The Wiester and O’Dirty definitely took the time to do some social media background checks, can’t knock ’em for that.
Nevertheless, I still believe we will get a GUILTY verdict.
“God takes the foolish things of this world to confound the wise”.
SMDH… Looks like O’Mara tricks worked… JN is a total disappointment
Yes, she really is. Just like she got rid of H13 the other day for no reason.
Maybe Judge Nelson is a stealth zimmerman supporter.
O’Mara should not have been able to strike all of the AA potentials. Disgusting.
I agree. Something’s not right here.
This doesn’t look good for the state. I’m disappointed in the make-up of this jury.
The judges notes must be scribbled all over the place like mine. She seems to be getting some of her numbers confused.
Is it an all-white jury? (Sorry to have to ask, but I couldn’t open Faux’s spreadsheet….)
no, B7 is in — appears to be black/hispanic and smart
B7 didn’t make it.
oh bummer, i mis read a list written earlier 😦
sorry, was confusing B-7 w/ B29 — black/hispanic cna from chicago?
One Hispanic. B29
All white jury. One “bi-racial” alternate: the arm wrestler.
My error on B-29
All the women have children except for B51
Mothers will think about Trayvon’s age, imo… Guess what you guys at this point all we can do is pray that they are all fair, and no Zimbot stealth jurors are in the mix
She has allowed the strike of E22, the church PJ, a black woman.
B72
and E54
She’ll allow the strike?
e22 gone
Dammit! Another black lady gone!
If this jury ends up with no one black . . . lord have mercy.
Any men in the alternates?
B72
B7 is black hispanic according to my records
Dammit MOM I’m an atheist, don’t make me defend churches.
Did BDLR just make a Batson challenge?
yup
Oh! There you are, I just again tweeted your unbelievable spread sheet. Well done!
I feel anxious and nauseated!
i’m trembling like crazy.. wtf am i missing here? are we over reacting>?? please say we are!
Guilt by association. Rev. Wright all over again. It’s a Unitarian Church, forchrissakes, they don’t exactly walk lock-step behind their pastors.
HUge difference between UC and many other churches.
@Two sides.
Yeah — we’re heretics. 🙂
Um, I can vouch for that!
Oh no he didn’t. Did O’Mara just say that the Orlando Sentinal is very very pro- Trayvon Martin??????
I had written the same but then thought, no it can’t be… now you make me doubt !
Is he trying to strike a juror for a letter and a sermon that someone ELSE wrote? WTH?!?
The Judge allowed the srike of E22. Got ________!
It stinks but I get the feeling JN wants to make sure there is nothing for the defense to appeal a conviction over…
OK. Help calm me down b/c right now I am hurt.
i hope the judge can go back to Bernie’s strikes on the 2 women now that it’s all women on jury! Can they?
I’m getting really upset & having a visceral reaction. The only Black on the jury is Uncle Tom from Uncle Tom’s cabin. This can’t be good.
Also, the visuals od zimmerman with his team of 6 attorneys and the prosrcution with just 2 guys-It reminds me of the OJ trial somehow.
Is there one black person on the jury? I don’t think so. I think it is all white.
B29 looks black and sounds Hispanic (Puerto Rican?)
B-35, black male, was struck by the State.
any reason stated?
“Uncle Tom” was actually modeled on the Reverend Josiah Henson who was a hero and a run-away slave who made it to Canada and set up a school there, and who returned to Maryland (the area that is now Rockville) and “revisited” his “plantation” after the Emancipation. It always bothers me when “Uncle Tom” is used to refer to a collaborator.
I did not know that.
My great grandfather was a run away slave from Prince George’s county, Joined the Union Army, wounded at the Battle of the wilderness, then spent10 years in the Calvary in one of those Buffalo Calvary units I forget 9th or 10th. , help to build Ft. Sill and settled in Oklahoma as a farmer. He did not have kids until his 50’s.
Is B76 a while male?
WF
thanks and i did mean white… 🙂 I have faith that these women will see how wrong Fogen was that night just like this White Woman! So if this is what we got, chins up.
Jury: B-29 B-76, B-37, B-51, E-6, and E-40
[B-35 struck by the State]
.
Bernie better double check these facebooks
the defense is not beneath pulling a fast one with fake accounts
oh man – i want B-76 outta there!
Me too! Is there anyway she can be struck or no?
nelson says she will allow back-strikes, but it seems like this one is in because she is a female and hence a protected class, which o’mara seemed to argue effectively.
Did some DINGBAT put her summons on facebook?
Yep.
With only 6 jurors, it’s hard to get a jury that is balanced across multiple characteristics.
So we have an all women jury….
omg is this the whole jury now? does anyone get to do pre empt strikes after this is over?? omg i’m confused! is this it?????
It IS confusing, but yes, we now have the 6 on the jury…. all women.
ALL WOMEN? IDK about this!!
in theory, it’s a good thing for the state, especially if they are mothers, with the exception of B76
An all-white jury. This is distressing. And it sounds like the defense has a good reason for getting rid of the young black woman. Posted her jury summons on facebook? This younger generation!
I don’t know what she was thinking. Ridiculous. So now we have an all-white jury.
B29 is Afro-Hispanic
So is P67 still on the jury?
Doesn’t look like they’ll get to him.
jury is b-29,b-76,b-37,b-51,e-6 & e-40 right? 5 w/f’s 1 b/f
Who is the black female?
I recall a juror mentioning a friendship with a witness, but stated they had not been in touch for a year or so. Is this the same witness?
Sorry M75. Why did she post on FB? So stupid.
Not because she posted to FB, but because she did not reveal that she was FB friends with West Robinson when they were asked.
The judge said it will remain stricken.
Bernie just noted his disagreement with two the State had wanted to strike but accepted court decision… is that significant ?
IDK either. i’m so confused!
can BDLR go back and strike using his own free strikes, i think he has 7 more??
Hope so !
It would be if he files an appeal
I thought the same willis, but IMO just not going to happen. IMO it would have to be so overwhelmingly evident GZ was guilty, and so overwhelmingly clear it was in the public interest to have a new trial (remember Joe Horn) for the State to file an appeal being tax payers money that the State would have to be pretty sure it would win. And if this jury messes up after seeing the selection process it’s more than 50/1 that the next jury would end up the with the same basic makeup.
new post up and the Frye Hearing is just starting…
O’Mara just named a witness. He is lower than shit.
Isn’t she on the witness list ?
PJ M75 is a FB friend with a witness. O’Mara named the witness. That means Zidiots can look up his FB and try to identify the PJ in addition to doxing the witness.
Yes, but all the names were not released to the public. O’Mara just outed one, prior to testimony, giving an opportunity for said witness to be doxed prior to testimony. Hence Xena’s well-founded reaction.
OMG he sure did and basically said all the zimmerlovers where to find this potential jury- on this witness’s facebook!!
Watch the defense argue against E75
Do we have a jury?!
We have the 6 jurors. Working on the alternates.
Thank you!
all women jury!
I wonder how much they are paying the AA woman attorney to help GZ?
I think she is an intern
so probably nada
I don’t know what their deal is…
Who did she keep. I know she kept the one who asked why TM was out late getting candy, but who was the other one?
I think it was E-40
Do you recall BDLR’s reason?
E6 and b 76 kept on by Judge
I didn’t catch his reason… but I am also wondering what concerned him
I should say “I think” I know – my link started buffering right then, so I’m not sure.
Mark you aren’t going to win this argument about the fact that these PJs are being stricken just because they are white and women.
Of course thats on his presumption that white women will favor GZ.
anyone have a list of strikes so far? i am denoting them in red on my spreadsheet – but missed beginning of this portion of trial
HELP!!!
STATE
B-12
B-86
Did the judge overrule Bernie’s striking of the woman who questioned TM’s being out at night getting candy?
yup
smh
If you assume that a self-important hostile mentally disturbed gun-toting would-be murderer could kill you at any moment then yeah, it’s foolhardy to go out to get candy at night —
Hopefully if they let GZ judge which are better and which not he will get it as wrong as he did with Trayvon !
So far we have B-29, B-76, B-37, B-51, E-6, E-40
b-29.b-76,b-37,b-51 e-6 and e40 so far in
Who were the two that he got? What did they say?
So they do go back to see if there is a balance. I wondered how they do that.
Nelson just caved to a fallacious argument from MOM, and one she KNEW to be fallacious.
I don’t get it , why is she so acquiescent to them?
It was completely fallacious. Prosecution gave good reasons for their peremptories, and judge stated over and over that the number of WW was a huge proportion. What a joke these “peremptories” are!!!
And NELSON is sounding more and more LIKE LESTER every day!
Malisha – I may need a “talk me down” about JN again!
Her ruling does NOT make sense to me – how can two be race & gender neutral, and two be supposedly race & gender based, without re-analyzing it based on the two — which would lead to the logical conclusion that NONE were, in fact, race and gender based?!
I soooooo agree with you. She also made a lot of mistakes with the order and number of the jurors. It definitely was not one of her better days.
Damn it nelson
those were good strikes
Yeah I was wondering about her reasoning there too…
I think O’Mara confused B76 with B86.
So B76 stays? B86 is struck.
@SG2. B76 stays, but the State argued to strike B86 and it was O’Mara who said B76. I don’t know which is correct.
No that was b76. I noticed that particular statement. Actually she said her daughter made that statement.
Crap he won two,
I’m getting pissed.
Why is O’Mara arguing common sense
Stop being a racist ass, MOM.
O’Mara is making an a55 out himself with this argument.
O’Mara is losing his race based arguments.
help me out – was on phone with collision repair shop.
who has been struck so far?
STATE
B-12
B-86
I disagree with the judge not allowing the State to strike B-76.
@Sleuth. (whispering) It was B86 that the State wanted stricken because of prejudice against Trayvon and his parents. O’Mara argued keeping on based on her number being B76, so it’s juror B76 who stays. B86 is out of the mix.
Is the PJ who was disrespectful to Sybrina and said that Trayvon was “expelled” from school B76 or B86? Because the State moved to strike B86 and O’Mara argued in favor of the PJ referencing her as B76 and Judge Nelson allowed B76.
@Xena
According to my very poorly written notes, JN did not allow the strike for B-76, W/F.
She is the one who allegedly asked, “Why was Trayvon out late at night buying candy?”
She also allegedly mis-identified a B/F spectator in the gallery as being Sybrina Fulton.
—————————————————-
Again, referring to my very poorly written notes, JN did allow the State’s strike with juror B-86, W/F.
Allegedly juror B-86 said Trayvon would not have been murdered if he had never been suspended from school.
I think it was after this strike, the judge did a count of juror’s based on gender.
I admit, my notes could be wrong. It was kinda hard trying to keep up. At times, the judge was calling out the wrong juror numbers and had to be politely corrected, so I may have mixed up some of the numbers.
@Sleuth. Thanks. B86 was struck. B76 was not. B86 is the one that blamed the victim for being “expelled” and out at night. Hope I got that correct.
Omara is rambling… he sounds dejected and rejected…
State attorney is killing me with his facial expressions.
How many strikes do they get?
10
woo hoo
way to show some guts judge
Good B86 is gone.
She said plainly it was Trayvon’s fault because he was suspended.. strike her… she’s out Omara has no valid reason to keep her! GO BDLR GO!
Thank God she is gone! Bernie is on top of it!!!
Bernie DeLaRionda was not born yesterday.
And he does not need to be born again.
When O’Mara and West get home tonight, West needs to sit O’Mara down and SLOOOOOOOOOOOOWLY tell him what just happened.
LOL… yep!
B86 should be excluded for saying that this wouldn’t have happened if Trayvon hadn’t been suspended. BDLR didn’t explain this well. Terrible.
Judge Nelson is doing a great job! STFU O’Mara!
Yes! She rules! Literally.
Maybe the speed that JN is moving.
Answering Tzar.
O’M should not have P-Oed the Judge.
you go JN!!! she was a zimm bot
Most of the jurors are women and white.. what is the problem, they will be struck most frequently…
B12 gave to Zimmerman’s defense fund! OMG
strike remains, thank God!
Yes this strike remains.
She was really nasty. Woohoo…so they didn’t use a PE on her then?
No she went to the site but did not give
MOM is complaining about Bernie striking 4 white women
LOL.
What’s his point?
He wants Bernie to give a gender neutral explanation.
That kind of stuff only applies to race, if I get your point; or maybe O’m is confused.
why does the defense seem so unprepared
They were preparing a defense on what Fogen had for breakfast and it just didn’t pan out! (omelet pan) See, O’Mara TOLD Judge Nelson he needed more time! They had to prepare a defense based on what he had for lunch and dinner too!
was b-12 struck?
yep!
love watching the Faux matrix with this.
I should be using it. Trying to work at the same time – impossible!
B12; B29; B76; B7;B37; B51
B7 was NOT struck by the defense! ???
Oops they just gave him a ‘back strike’. So I guess they gave several chances at each one.
Did they just seat 6 jurors in 10 minutes?
That’s what I am wondering…. this last part is confusing me and moving FAST
Wasn’t P67 the one said that the Bible says “Thou Shall Not Kill”?
P67 is the one they questioned alone, in the courtroom, without the other PJs. The one whose wife wrote the letter for him detailing his hardship.
No, that pj was sent home. I think he also had some health problems.
JN is tearing through this. Too fast for me!
One time I remember a golden moment in court. My ex-husband, who had just delivered a pro se soporific speech (to which my atty did not object because he was actually asleep!) while pounding on a stack of papers that he never even flipped through (they were only a prop after all) announced: “Your Honor, my only weakness, that is on evidence, because she is manipulating all time the court and did not make any.”
Huh? LOL!
Yeah — and now, the State has manipulated the court by having EVIDENCE of MURDER! Unbearable! ➡ ❗
Defense has no challenges for cause.
I hope O’Dirty wins this round. P67 will hate his guts for this, and it will not bode well for his client. I hope he stays.
State challenges P-67 for cause.
Defense objects.
Challenge denied.
That’s a shame. They should have let that man go.
Def on that one, Nef.
Hey I have an evidence question. Doesn’t the location of the body, the shell casing placement point more to Zimmerman being on top of Trayvon Martin at the time he was shot?
Sh won’t excuse p67
what the hell?
Stellar reasons to strike for cause.
the state has been so on the up and up throughout this case
p67 for cause
hardship
access
language barrier
Who struck him?
State
back in session
back on….
Cross fingers, pray and hoodies up everyone here we go!
I hoping b- 51 makes it and is fore-person.
They may anticipate that and try to strike her however
I’d strike B37 her hubby is an attorney and might be a defense attorney
although she cannot have pillow talk with hubby lol
No his practice concerns legal issues that arise in regard to outer space.
Professor Leatherman was also a defense attorney.
But I wouldn’t want to strike Crane Station!
OK, nobody wants to touch that question.
Assuming the defense strikes B7, he will be replaced by B-37, the animal rescue person.
She works for a chiropractor. Has 2 daughters. One is a student; one is a pet groomer. Her husband is a space attorney. She described the protests as “riots.” She used to have a concealed carry permit, but let it expire because she never carries..
I hope B-37 “riot” person gets a strike. The protests about Trayvon were not “riots”… I don’t like her mentality.
OK, let’s assume Bernie strikes her.
Who does the defense strike?
Let’s assume it’s B-35 and they get over the Batson objection.
Now B-51 moves into the box and she’s a leader and potential foreperson because supervised 1200 people when she was the director of a call center.
I’m trying to examine how the defense might use every arrow in their quiver to get to an all white, all male jury..
I’m preparing myself to hear MOM argue to jettison some black PJs for spurious reasons in an obvious attempt to flout the supreme court’s ruling on such practices.
There’s little they haven’t stooped to already. Open and blatant racism isn’t going to surprise me.
Of course we won’t hear much of this live but that doesn’t mean he won’t crow about it later
I-24 is #38 on the panel and not even in the picture.
Strikes are limited to the 6 in the box
damn I am confused about how they strike and who is in the box, etc…
I am prepared for that too. However, I heard that the judge could challenge this.
I hope Bernie strikes I-24. Older white woman who commented that she worries about people who carry guns and do not have a permit. I get a bad vibe from her.
concerned — you didn’t ask me, but my experiencw is that numbers chosen to stay are called out and seated in the appropriate seats in order. Remainder are thanked for their time and released.
Professor, will the jurors be present when each side exercises their strikes and then will the judge ask the stricken juror to leave the room or something?
No, I don’t believe so.
I think the strikes will be made at the bench.
Would y’all want B-35 on the jury, if he were a white guy?
Not from his comments the first day. But after that he seemed reasonable when talking about his family. I didn’t hear if he said anything today.
He mentioned being sucker punched by a guy while attempting to collect rent from a female tenant.
Then the guy got a knife and B-37 got a bat out of his vehicle.
The guy went back inside the house. B-35 called the cops and waited in his vehicle for them to arrive.
He admitted to being in 5 fights winning some and losing some.
Certainly MOM did not want to hear “waited in the vehicle”
Is there any indication that he wouldn’t listen to reason? Because REASON is on BDLR’s [our] side.
Good question but he’s NOT a white guy.
Exactly.
Yes — I like that he did a stretch in Marine Corps and is a rental property owner who hopefully understands what it’s like to have a deadbeat tenant (if that comes out at trial) and who understands HOA liability, should that issue surface.
hold on, he didn’t like the idea of everyone carrying CCW because you don’t know anything about them. I agree with that, (also don’t know if the CCW holders are on medications. hint)
if that’s the guy, I think one can persaude him to a degree, maybe both ways. Given what’s left he may have to be on the jury. My choices were the two teenagers (one had obey shirt and ate up West, the other was always asked how his mom felt), the Lady who lived with daughter and Grandsons, the arts lady who lived in town, and the black guy who voiced his opinions about young black teens death seem unimportant, and maybe the girl who had a thumbs up on facebook on trayvon’s picture and was interested in music. Don’t know the numbers.
Boyd, I’m hoping the young guy in the tank who had West for lunch makes it as an alternate.
Definitely not.
To be honest O’maras’ performance today does not leave him much choice. He insulted PJs’ while others were offended by him insulting those PJs’, his questions didn’t do much to find those who would be good choices for defense.
He’ll definetly strike the lady whose nephew was killed from the home invasion.
Yeah. BDLR makes them look cold and too systematic. The defense is being out-shined by his personable approach. Don’t forget, people liked to be smooched.
That PJ is E-73. She is in the 13th position.
You can only strike people in the box (positions 1-6)
Won’t there be 10 people in the box, or do they handle the alternates some other way?
Thank you Professor. My Mama told me, I should always get a seat in the front row of class ’cause I’m slow. 🙂
The State goes first. They have to strike 1 of the 1st 6 or they accept the 1st 6 as the jury.
Are y’all willing to accept the 1st 6 as the jury?
That’s a scary proposition
Looking over the 1st six jurors, I think they would be a good jury for the prosecution especially B7, B35 and B29.
They should strike B12 though or try to get her out for cause somehow, but then they’d have B37 whom they should also strike.
Regarding Fogen’s persistent morning slouch, first cited upthread. Does he have a boil on his ass?.
Better question: does he have an ass under the gigantic boil that is his body?
whonoze, I’ll defer to your superior analysis.
Yes it’s called his entire person.
Plus his lying, victim-trashing family.
Apologies I don’t have ‘Faux spreadsheet in front of me and have been trying to keep up with PJ numbers matching with their voices. I;m going by memory. It a choice between the call center lady who manges 1200 or the gentlemen who is a teacher the one Omara asked if was or had been a member of the black panther party (ugh!)
I must have been on phone. He really asked a black PJ if ever a member of the black panthers. Did he specify new or old? Isn’t that tantamount to asking a white PJ if ever a member of …. well, I won’t even get into that.
I remember that before we got to this point, when he first questioned the AA teacher. Not sure which day, I’ve been in and out of the hospital since first day it started. I was not feeling well that day and sleepy, that woke me straight up, then I threw up.
Now if I am in err please someone correct that for me.
KKK? I will. If he did imo he is out of bounds.
ic2fools — Hope you’re feeling better. If Fogen testifies, keep a trash can by your side just in case.
I have not found what I believed I heard. My apologies, I should not have made that statement. I had just got out of the hospital after a procedure and the anethsia had not worn off. I sincerely apologize. I truly believe that is what I had heard. I still will continue to review juror testimonies to make sure.
WHAT?!!!! Did he actually ask that question?
I’m reviewing that right now, I am quite sure that is what I heard.
I will get back with you about it. Not sure how long but I will be back for sure.
I have not found what I believed I heard. My apologies, I should not have made that statement. I had just got out of the hospital after a procedure and the anethsia had not worn off. I sincerely apologize. I truly believe that is what I had heard. I still will continue to review juror testimonies to make sure.
I missed most of the audio, I’ll have to trust y’alls opinion.
Prof.:
I’m not clear on the Self-Defense law in FL. You’ve written that in general it’s an “affirmative defense” which shifts at least some burden to the defendent to establish just cause as defined by the relevant statutes. But MOM is talking as if the burden remains completely on the State, as if regardless of what the Defense presents or doesn’t present, as long as he says “Self-Defense’ in his opening statement, the burden falls entirely on the State to prove BRD that GZ did NOT act in self-defense.
Can you help clarify?
The burden of proof is on the state.
However, the defense has to introduce some evidence of self-defense in order to be able to get an instruction on it and argue it to the jury.
GZ is going to testify.
Wait — Do we know for a fact that Fogen’s gonna take the stand? How?
“Hold all my calls!”
-Me
If Fogen is going to testify then I predict he will have a story that is not ANY of the stories he has told already. He will have a different version altogether, one that both West and O’Mara have carefully designed to “get around” the problems presented by the undeniable forensic evidence. He will also have excuses rehearsed for why he gave the wrong information to the police. It will be somewhat elaborate and he will resist cross-examination by not remembering anything that relates to inconsistencies. Lots of it will be designed to incorporate “bad impressions” of Trayvon. We will all be astonished and we will recognize the fact that Fogen couldn’t come up with any of it on his own.
Malisha~ I agree with you. He will have to memorize a new script. BUT LUCKILY he’s not smart enough to survive a cross examination of the type Bernie can give.
________________________________
Given the 1st 6 in the box, who is likely to be the foreperson?
Anybody?
OK,
I think it will be B7 and I’m pretty sure the defense will use a peremptory to get rid off him because they will not want him on the jury.
He’s a goner for sure, IMHO.
Quick questions on opening statements. Do you think the Judge is trying to rap this up so she can send Jurors home to get their stuff in order? Shooting for Monday as the start of trial? Just seems really quick to get stuff in order?
I believe opening statements will start tomorrow morning at 9 am.
That would be quick. The jurors would have no time to get their affairs in order.
Don’t you think MOM, at least, will be making many arguments for dismissal for cause, which will take JN longer than today to adjudicate (given the Frye hearing)?
I believe the defense may strike B-35, but they are also likely to strike B-7 and B-37
What would be their argument for cause on B-35, since they can’t peremptory an AA without justification?
Don’t know.
Keep for now I maybe wrong he sounds like a follower.
This recess is our opportunity to discuss strikes.
Let’s start with the first 6.
What do y’all think of B35, the black gentleman who owns rental properties and vending machines.
Keep or strike?
Keep, although cautious of the generation gap.
He sounded a little nutty during the individual questioning, but who knows.
He’s keeper material. Not first choice though.
Yeah, sounded a bit nutty and stealthie to me.
He’s a keeper.
Strike. Last thing we need is another Clarence Thomas.
LMAO
Based on some of his answers in jury selection, I am worried about him being like Herman Cain.
Problem is if you fire a response back he does not like, you are off the Jury.
We call people under 18 a minor for a reason. The are not allowed to carry guns. How can they be treated the same in self-defense since the minor is unarmed.
Damn damn damn, why do people call me while I am watching the trial??? Perhaps I should have let it go to VM because I missed West get his ass chewed out yet again. This morning the internet guy took just over an hour to get my modem fixed and when he left, I still had slow to no connection! Grrrrrrrrrrrrr
No ass chewing, she asked them to take 30 minutes for lunch. Then work on how they wanted to use strikes. West said perhaps an an hour and 15 and started to ramble JN said be back at 2 and walked off. West was still standing there when her door shut. Still roflmao.
She told him a short lunch was best so as to address other items before Frye and he pissed her off. I expect she will keep them there until it is finished no matter how late. She knows they are still doing everything possible to get a delay and is having NONE of it. Love it.
Court will reconvene at 2 pm.
Not clear, but I think she wants the lawyers to be prepared to exercise their strikes at 2 pm.
That will be followed by the Frye hearing.
Looks like opening statements will start tomorrow at 9 am.
Wow, really? I feel like I blinked (i.e., worked lol) and am delighted to find we are so near to opening statements!
Oooooo! Judge Nelson was agitated by West’s uncompromising position on taking a shorter lunch.
Her patience appear to be getting extremely short with him. He should tread lightly.
She don’t like West and MOM…. they think everyone should give them preferential treatment while they smile and shit in the face of everyone else…
Oh wow, jury strikes today then? Does that mean we will have a jury today?
I do not know, but I think JN is ready to light a fire under the defenses ass.
I know, it was as if she was begging the man. Also, one PJ did mention a health condition relating to diet, and if she is say for example, diabetic or something, O’Mara really needs to pay attention to that.
Judge Nelson made it very clear she was not cutting him off…but then he pressed on, and I am not so sure stuff like that is such a great idea.
Mi Too! I envisioned the perverial swift kick in West butt.
Good afternoon, everyone. If they’re back at two, for challenges and cause – but the Frye hearing starts at two – how does that work?
I’m wondering the same thing
I don’t know, but I’m hoping it works like this…………O’Dirty doesn’t get to finish that bs he started.
So will the Frye hearing be before or after the continuation of jury selection?
He said hour and 15 minutes and she cut him right off and said okay while he was still rambling. LOL. Love it.
saw that…
Nelson is so pissed at West
Did you see how she cut him off to announce recess?
Oh, did he have another “moment” this morning? Has he been arguing with the judge over objections, again? Haven’t had a chance to read the comments from this morning.
Yep. That der boy done lost his daggone mind! Must be dipping some of The Wiester’s snuff again.
Obvious JN was short with West. Is she pissed?
lmao she cut West right off.
I guess we can see the office upgrades, all of defense scheme meme, have shiny Dells.
Recess for lunch at 12:45 pm EDT.
I realize there’s a lot of humor going on in the courtroom, but the defense needs to warn their client that all the wide smiling does not bode well for him.
I hope they continue to encourage him to smile and appear personable (or so he thinks that is what he’s doing)… the jurors will begin to question his mental health… “What sane person who has taken a life, could sit in court at their trial on murder 2 charges and find ANYTHING humorous.” Sane people do not find anything funny in taking a life or spending the rest of their life in prison.
He is the poster child of a sociopath.
I totally concur………….definitely a sociopath.
Did he just argue with the judge?
Yes, ma’am, I do believe he did. Duh.
He sure did. Basically told her they could go to lunch when he finished his line of bs!
just waking up … o’mara asking if a 17 year old’s life is worth more than any others, gets a couple of people to say ‘no’.
i would have to ask why do laws add a penalty to sentencing if the victim is a minor? is this not a concession that our children are precious?
@fauxmccoy
Hey Sug, I’ve deen looking for you. Nice to see you. We saved a seat for you. I’m moving a little slow myself, had an allergic reaction to some aspirin I took this morning, but I think I’ll live.
Just want to tell you again, what a fantastic job you did on the spreadsheet…….damn you’re good !:-)
YOU SAID: “i would have to ask why do laws add a penalty to sentencing if the victim is a minor? is this not a concession that our children are precious?”
Yes, that’s just what it means. Children are just that, children and NOT adults. And as it pertains to this case, Trayvon, being the child, had no obligation to tell the confessed murderer ANY
THING, nor was he supposed to know he had a CCW permit or gun, or any adult for that matter.
That’s just my simple and basic answer but I’m sure the Professor, and those here who have a legal background can better answer your question.
Again, good to see you in court today my friend.
thank you so much for your kind words. hope you are doing better after your aspirin incident.
oh, i know the answer to my question. rhetorical. 🙂
And that they cannot be held to exactly the same accountability as adults because they are precisely NOT adults… that said, over here and I believe over there, they are prosecuting ever younger kids as adults.
@gbrbsb
agreed — as a society, we enact laws to protect those least capable of protecting themselves — the young, the infirm, and the elderly. o’mara is blowing smoke on this one.
@Faux
I remember last year when I first begin researching info about differences in Murder 1 and Murder 2. Came across the law adding a penalty to sentencing when it a minor and elderly. Our children are precious but not to those who will step on them to dead and alive for their own benefits. No caring selfish sorry excuse of the explanation of humanity.
This is a very baaaaad example O’Dirty is showing. How in the world was Trayvon suppose to know the confessed had a gun or permit?
What a pathetic strategy……..just pure dee pathetic.
To be honest, I don’t think that was his point.
Oh you have a permit? Please, shoot me!
O’Mara has not questioned the panel regarding the defendant’s right to remain silent and the jury cannot presume anything because of that silence.
That means GZ is going to testify.
Never thought of that but your right, O’Mara hasn’t said anything about the right to remain silent….. hmmmm Hard to picture Fogen on the stand
Because in his twisted mind he thinks he can schmooze his way out of anything and no one else can do it as well as he can. He probably thinks he should have saved the attorney fees and done it himself. Lol
I can’t wait to see that! I’ll fire up the grill. Conviction for sure.
Mmmmmmmm, barbecue time! Roast that pig BDLR!!!!!!
Wow.
That’s sure gonna be interesting !
Forgot to say, add or ask. With the risk involved and the loss of what is I thought normally an advantage, wouldn’t that indicate that MOM & Co have concluded they ain’t got a hope in hell of getting him off if he doesn’t testify !
Fogen in the box? Lawdy, Ms Clawdy … that will be rich.
Leisa, think you’re right. Hannity session was a great success (after all it di bring in dough), he feels, so testifying, while more serious, will be a snap to sell jurors on why he needed to do his god-given duty.
I was going to ask about that. Also the assertion of self defense seems to indicate GZ is gonna take the stand.
That makes me very happy.
I can’t wait to see that.
Doesn’t a minor automatically have “special consideration”. And the juror that said “everybody” should be treated equally from what age does he take “everybody” ?
Trayvon’s life wasn’t “lost” it was taken.
Mom: Attitude difference between 17 and 18? … Black rather than any other race.
We can only hope …
Rene Stutzman@renestutzman9m
O’Mara: I’m getting very close to being done. #Trayvon, #Zimmerman
I hope Bernie gets rid of I-24. I don’t have a good feeling about her.
Likewise
WTH – Can there really be an objection yet the question is still asked?
B-54 is concerned about people with concealed weapons, even if licensed.
B-37 same
E-42 same
I-24 same. She’s more concerned about unlicensed people carrying.
Uh oh… I hope Bernie makes a note on that last lady….. I don’t like how she thinks, having a concealed permit is upstanding she is worried about the OTHER criminal types sneaking around….
What about the mental capacity of an individual with a permit… Doesn’t the matter?
WTF – I 24 is concerned about people not carrying weapons as well as those who carry illegally?
That’s one for Bernie to weed out !
I’m opposed to eating meat, but vegetarianism seems extreme. This PJ doesn’t know what to think.
Yep.
Gz may be in trouble with this group!
George Zimmerman lOOKS so ugly sitting there laughing like this is some comedy show!
TOAD. He’s a giant toad. I hate watching him laugh.
In truth, I want to see him rolling on the floor, screaming his guts out, pulling his hair, frantic with fear. That’s my personal fantasy. I’ll make the popcorn.
Oh, now OM will want to get rid of the guy who doesn’t feel comfortable with people running around with guns. THese folks should keep some stuff to themselves.
And there goes another one who may have cooked her own goose !
Not comfortable with the Wild, Wild West…. then he needs to leave Florida
: – )
Nowhere to run from that except outside the US>
H81 is a gated community manned by police.
I hope Gorge is soon living in a “gated community” again, if you know what I mean. 🙂
🙂
I share your sentiment.
🙂 🙂
BIG vote for Fogen’s new gated community!!!
1. Trayvon was a neighbour
2. “Watch out for neighbours and keep the community safe” from whom ?
I44 says everyone needs to be involved in Neighborhood Watch.
Skinny guys who don’t look like they can punch but that punch like a “beast” as one witness said, don’t leave faces like GZ’s at the end of 2 mins, they leave something more like:
http://tinyurl.com/o8pktly
Ooops… huge gaffe… for “witness” pls substitute PJ !
Was that K95 who said NW watch should be on the lookout for people who don’t belong in the neighborhood?
Asking people’s opinion of NW. This is gonna be interesting.
Very interesting…
To Robert and Trained, No reply up there….Fell outta my chair, folks, thanks….LOL….Can we just be an act?
B86 said appearances can be deceiving. He has a skinny friend who can administer a beating.
Wow wait until B86 hears about Fogens’ gym membership, that little chair act defense is trying to make Fogen look like he needed a gun ain’t gonna work one bit.
did you guys notice gz’s reaction a few minuets ago when BDLR objected to omars explanation of self-defense.
gz snapped his fat neck with a look of complete contempt as if HOW DARE BDLR bother my lawyer!!
it was right when my pic went out so it was stuck at that exact view!
GZ is so disgusting and hateful.
Yes he is… I could see that in him a looong time ago. He is also overbearing and evil.
When he corrected Shaun his condo was not an apartment “It’s a Home”
When Serino ask him why did you continue in the direction of (FOLLOW) Trayvon after the 311 operator said we don’t need you to do that… Fogen say, “I STILL wanted to get the address”
Yep I caught all of that too. The “it’s a home” statement says a lot about his low self-esteeem. Not to mention he was a renting the unit he called a home. So you got the “self appointed” renter neighborhood watch captain. Fogen knows he’s trash, and in his soul he hates who he really is. He hides behind the facades he creates for himself.
The arm wrestler I like, the one with the very peculiar accent… Isn’t he the 60 year old who does one arm push ups ?
K95 kicked a motorcycle over, went inside and called the police.
The underlying theme here is that when these PJ’s found themselves in trouble and in need of police assistance they had sense enough to wait for them and let them handle it.
Omara just effed up! He should have not put her on the spot like that. When she asked why are you asking me that question all he had to ask was do you think that will have any bearing on you deciding in this trial and left it alone!
Dam Fool now he has the whole lot of PJs’ sickened with him. I knew he would insult PJs’ I knew it.
Whoop his butt again Judge Deborah!
I had to step away… What rude thing did he say to the PJ.
*SMH*
I can only imagine how that PJ lady felt and the look she gave him. And other PJs’, yep he’s showing how insensitive he really is.
I loved it when Judge Deborah took the Jury Instructions away from him the second time, sure called him out trying to twist meanings and leading PJs’
E86 mentions the 2 robberies she worked at a fast food restaurant.
Jorge looks like he’s felling a little cocky and confident. He must be back on the adderall. hmmmm… I wouldn’t be surprised if he stats losing weight.
MOM is a real butt hole. He seems to do a great job of minimizing trauma that these PJ’s have experienced.
The nephews murder from 13 years ago comment was insensitive as hell!
Mmmmm huh!
E-73’s nephew was shot and killed 13 years ago. Home invasion shot through the door while he was sitting at a table.
She’s not sure she can be fair and impartial.
E-6 was beaten in an act of domestic violence and lost bits and pieces of her memory for awhile.
I like that he did not kill the people that gave him a real “beat down” and they had a “stale mate”! Idiot does not stand a chance!
Gorge is looking more alert now because it’s getting close to feeding time.
Does he get to eat with his family? Will they talk about getting a new lawyer? 😉
No, nobody eats around him because they stand to lose a hand or a finger.
No they’ll be too busy quizzing servers on how big the portions are and whether they can get extra pickles for free.
B35 was attacked by a guy while attempting to collect rent. Guy sucker punched him. Guy went and grabbed a knife. He grabbed a bat and they had a stand-off.
He got in his car and called the cops after they guy went inside.
I think O’Mara will get rid of him. That PJ knows what Fogen did was not reasonable.
Let me guess: Fogen, the rental deadbeat, won’t want this rent collector.
That PJ said he has won a few fights and lost a few fights, it is what it is… (a fight). He can sit there and say that today, and has never killed anyone!
I wish this guy wasn’t sharing this story. O’Mara is going to get rid of him, DAMN!
That was my same thought.
Yes, and now he is going to get rid of this one… nephew of 13 killed !
Yep. I hate to admit it, but O’Mara is weeding out people who won’t be pro-Fogen
Twice Omara, Judge Momma Nelson took a switch to ya! Your butt gotta be sore.
Don’t run now, she see you…..
(paraphrase – Riley, Boondocks… 😀
B7 was in a fight with a bully in 6th grade.
So what?
Wasn’t everybody?
Just had a light bulb go off… GZ knew police were minutes away… Trayvon never touched GZ’s gun, he had TM at gun point and still pulled the trigger, so even if he had taken some blows and been banged up, it was not reasonable for him (GZ) to think that he was going to die or suffer great bodily harm and pull that trigger because help was on the way and he knew it.. TM did not.. guilty!
NOBODY who thought that they had taken blows to the head that would cause great bodily harm is going to refuse to go to the hospital, and I don’t care how many stupid looking knuckle bandages that they paste on his head nobody is going to believe that…Anybody that has been beaten up, really beaten up are going to be impressed with those injuries.
People are struggling with the meaning of a double negative.
O’Mara’s intellectual clumsiness is making him look bad to the jury.
Most of them are smarter than he is and they are probably beginning to realize that they cannot trust his interpretations of the law.
He has created a reason not to trust him.
That reason has been around for awhile, now its just more serious.
That little “didactic” made him come off as an obfuscater looking for a loophole
Did somebody mail him a shovel?
Needs some wellies too.
he’s arguing with the Jurors, he’s had 1 year to formulate his arguments but believes it’s perfectly fair to solicit a response from a Juror on the spot. F him. I’d answer back “Maybe Trayvon had self-defense”
keep arguing with the Jurors A-hole
So does that Bill S guy still think MOM is doing a better job, or does he realize MOM has confused half of the PJs?
MOM is out of his Depth! This little dance between JN and MOM and Court procedure will be an ongoing issue throughout this trial…
In addition to the fact that MOM will have a hard row to hoe and run into these issues…
He can bring in Fogen’s statements
He cannot assert Fogen’s declaration of Self-Defense
He can’t say what a great guy Fogen is ect… He got nothing!
Zero! Zilch! Nada!
Should have read…
He cannot bring in Fogen’s statements.
Why cant the prosecution bring in his statements? He had a right to remain silent & he waived it, repeatedly. They need to conclude the case with his hannity interview statement, “I wouldn’t do anything differently” to show just how depraved he was. He is obviously a sociopath. He has shown no remorse at all for the taking of a life. Hes a frickin menace to society.
Ms.X —
the prosecution CAN bring in any of the defendant’s statements that they wish, the defense cannot due to hearsay laws.
the only caveat is that the prosecution would not want to bring in a portion of any statement which might lead into self defense claims because the defense could force the portion of the statement regarding self defense claims to be read in order to ‘complete the context’ of the statement.
the prosecution can and probably will use some of the defendant’s statements, but with caution. their goal is to mention absolutely nothing about self defense and to keep any witnesses from mentioning it (also hearsay).
the only person who can legitimately make any self defense claim is the defendant and he must do so on the witness stand — and then, look out, because all bets are off — all of his idiot stories with ‘scooby doo trick endings’ will be on full display, every contradictory thing he has ever said will be brought up to undermine his credibility. i hope this is clear as far as an explanation.
Ms. X, The prosecution can bring fogen’s statements and probably will to impeach his testimony. The defense cannot bring in his statements.
During trial, please, please have somebody point out to the jury Fogen didn’t need so much as a bandaid that night!
trying the case in jury selection… Hey MOM, thought you wanted the case tried in court not before you get to trial…
Perhaps MOM still imagines that Corey is going to leap up and shout, “Oh NOW I understand! I’m so SORRY! I withdraw these terrible charges — where’s my sackcloth and where are my ashes? I need to make it up to this poor accused citizen!”
Hey O’Mara: probably not gonna happen. But you gave it the good college try, man!
Lol
JN looks pissed at O’Mara for trying to take over her job.
I think it is a given that the Judge instructs on the law. If so, he is really out of bounds. And she is somewhat restrained, I guess, in order not to smack him down in front of the jury. Guess he really is dumb….
Oh my GOD!
Ha. Smackdown.
Didn’t JN just say she would like to give the PJ all instructions… and here MOM is reading the instruction again.
What an idiot!
He’s reading the instruction again.
What a Dumbass!
Is O’Mara trying to read instructions AGAIN? wtf
WTF is wrong with Mark O’Mara?
His client is guilty as sin so he is trying his sleeze ball best to manipulate the jury!
Good answer chi.
GZ has nothing to prove?????
IF the prosecution does not meet its burden, then Fogen has “nothing to prove.” If the prosecution proves that Fogen killed Trayvon Martin with a depraved mind and ill will, however, Fogen will have to prove self-defense.
But that’s not what O’Mara has been telling the PJs, from what I’ve heard. He has NOT said that the killer must prove self-defense; he said the opposite, that the state has the burden of proving no self-defense. (But I haven’t heard every word, so maybe I missed something.)
Self-defense, under the law, requires a reasonable fear of death or severe bodily injury. Without Zim’s testimony I don’t know how that reasonable fear gets into evidence.
Quo vadis, O’Mara, Quo vadis?! What are ya talking about and where the heck are you heading with it?! I am going to die of boredome.
B7 may have a problem with applying the law.
SYG a new law and the courts still haven’t interpreted it so NOBODY really knows what it is.
So basically Brandi will testify that Trayvon was a welcome guest and therefore he had the right to protect himself wherever on the property just as Fogen?
Conceding it is a shitty law.
Why is O’Mara talking about SYG when (a) it not part of the trial-equation and (b) he himself does not even understand it or at least has misinterpreted it in the past? I think O’Mara want to emulate BDLR and show he knows something. But he is very bad at it, IMO. I am not sure he has a game plan. I am not sure that he would be able to say to himself after this: “my goal today was ‘A’, I achieved ‘A’ and ‘A’ serves my client well”.
Just tuned in but I really like the questions PJs are asking.
i’m glad she is shutting omara down
Judge Nelson constantly shuts MOM down and she should… he is a snake.
I fixed my audio problem. It was firefix, I’m on IE now.
Self-defense? Why is MOM assuming only GZ had that right?
When and how will the defendant assert self defense. MOM asserting it is hearsay.
It’s not even hearsay! He’s not a fact witness at all!
Right… I think that is where he is helping the prosecution, I hope BDLR brings it up in opening statements so that they can take it into consideration as the defense presents their fantasy case
B7 is concerned about SYG.
B76 doesn’t understand duty to retreat.
Judge Nelson has had enough of this.
So basically MOM is saying they both had the right to stand their ground.
MOM is all kinds of f***ing up. Does he really have law degree?
It appears, as I thought, that unless the prosecution can show GZ was acting unlawfully, and even then I believe Florida permits use of deadly force to meet deadly force, that it will all boil down to those last two minutes, alleged fight, alleged injuries, recordings and all.
But IMBW and IANAL and I am not saying by any means the defence will prove Trayvon did use deadly force and I personally don’t believe he did and that if he did at all hit GZ, which I don’t see that he did by the evidence, that it was in his own self defence.
completely and totally agree
Agreed… That should definitely be a topic during deliberations…
Absolutely. I haven’t been impressed by the “Homie, problem, no problem, problem now” thing from the START. Even if that idiotic and ridiculous statement were TRUE, Trayvon STILL would have been acting in self-defense because (a) Fogen followed him both in a car and on foot, and had a flashlight (he claims a non-working flashlight but Serino says it worked) that could easily have appeared to be a dangerous object; ad (b) when Trayvon asked either “Why are you following me for?” or “What’s your effin’ problem homie?” it was clear to Fogen that Trayvon believed he was being followed in the dark at night by someone holding a heavy object. EITHER WAY his refusal to immediately make it clear to Trayvon that the boy was not in danger made it obvious that Trayvon’s subsequent actions were defensive actions, no matter what those actions were. This jury seems to have the mental power to understand that. Fogen will find that there is not enough slouch room in the WORLD for him to escape that.
Had he let Trayvon Benjamin Martin slouch down and avoid death that night, this would not be happening to him now. Tsk Tsk effin TSK!
Extremely well put Malisha… and gosh you are quick !
I agree with you entirely, however will continue to cross fingers that we don’t get some biased idiot on the jury !
I cannot see how credibility won’t play a huge factor in any deliberations. GZ lied to omit and obscure how the altercation began. IMO it “began” with illegal acts of aggression by the defendant – chasing w his car.
But of course willis… indisputable. Basically the jury must believe BARD GZ was reasonable to fear for his life or GBH to find him not guilty but how do they believe someone who lied so much, shows so little “injuries”, knew the police was soon to arrive, had followed Trayvon into the dark, etc. etc. etc. ?
I just took down some of what JN read in part:
“… that a reasonably cautious and prudent person would have believed that the danger could only be avoided by the use of deadly force.”
“… reasonably believed that the use of deadly force was necessary to prevent death or GBH.”
As the rest I personally don’t think either fits what happened so we can but hope the jurors are likewise thinking.
why doesn’t omar bother to remember their numbers like Bernie did?
I noticed that too. BDLR is a people person. O’Mara is a reptile.
well that’s true.
but don’t snakes even know their babies?
Snakes eat their babies
Haha! Paranoid.
‘that law’ syg?
The defendant has not asserted in the courtroom he acted in self defense. And if he never does so, how does the defense argue that point?
Big swallow from Fogen.
Uh-oh. JN referred to gz as “the defendant.” I wonder if Omara is going to say something about it? She is losing patience with MOM, and rightly so.
Good morning everyone. Is the audio turned off by the Court?
No, here is a link that works:
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbcnews.com/52117880/
Thank you!!!
You’re welcome!
The jurors will be allowed to consider stand your ground.
IF somebody testifies about it, that is. Fogen could try that if he is able to get himself uncrouched enough to get in the box!
Is that true? I thought there had to be some pre-trial claim of that….No?
How do you figure that? Omara dropped it and has said pubically that it doesn’t apply to this case.
Let’s see, Fogen had a semi-automatic, and Trayvon had skittles…. is it reasonable that Fogen feared for his life? GMAB
MOM keeps trying to do JN’s job in a half ass kind of way.
disappointed — I disagree … quarter ass at best. 🙂
What if this “battery” was Trayvon’s self defence ?
It was nice to hear Trayvon Martin’s name for a change!
Yes. ANd glad JN stepped in.
me too!
What happened?
MOM keeps trying to be the judge. Why are they letting him start with the instructions before they object? Are they sleeping?
“Reasonable” is an objective standard (as opposed to subjective).
Of course, an aggressor cannot provoke a confrontation with force and claim self-defense.
Does the jury not get to consider whether Trayvon was reasonably defending himself if Zimmerman did have injuries…
Judge Nelson once again schooled Mark O’Mara that SHE will read instructions to the jurors. What’s with O’Mara?
Oh, oh. Looks like Judge Nelson doesn’t like O’Mara’s version of the instructions.
O’Mara omits the provision thatat a person comitting an illegal act (e.g. a robber who shoots an armed shopkeeper) cannot claim self defense.
omg these jurors are brilliant!
I think a little voice inside Judge Nelson’s head is saying: “I knew I could I knew I could I knew I could…”
Nice of MOM to emphasise “reasonable fear”.
This entire “self defense” thing by Fogen makes me so angry! I swear I will lose (even more) faith in humanity if he isn’t convicted! This was murder, period! Trayvon was screaming for his life!!
I will be forever changed if he is not found guilty… I can not say it any different…
Casey Anthony got away with killing her baby. Anything could happen.
Bernie should object. He is claiming the jury will get that instruction.
Wow that’s a clear win for the defense to have that self defense instruction read as an example – Especially considering that self defense has not formally been alleged under oath by the defendant!!!
That is how I understand it.
Why would O’m think it is good practice to argue with a pj? And, do we know if O’m has ever tried a murder case in his life?
So GZ self preserved !!!
Keep digging O’Mara.
He isn’t exactly the master of “Lateral Thinking”, I fear !
Lol
I’m surprised these PJs are being so chatty
Are these jurors now talking about God given, or otherwise, ‘common sense.’
Looks like West is having a hard time processing again.
Yes. Puzzlement.
Killing somebody in selfdefence is not being a good samaritan!
He stopped to render a bullet as aid to the unarmed teenager. Then when the teen was bleeding to death he told residents NOT to call 911 and get an ambulance on the way. What a Good Samaritan.
IMO defendant dit not kill in selfdefence even.
O’Mara is thinking “damn, where are those people I’ve seen commenting on CTH.
Law is outside the moment of human reaction to protect self.
He says these are descrete concept and actions essentially. Heat of the moment decision to protect self.
Agree with that– ooops, to get yourself away from a big scarey old man following him.
B7 makes the point that defending another is not taking the law into your own hands.
Who was Fogen protecting? No one was in danger of Trayvon. If anything they should have charged him with discharging firearm that close to all them apt/townhomes.
His inner whiney child.
Yes, the evidence will show that the defendant was never in danger of being killed or seriously injured.
The evidence will show that Trayvon was not only in that kind of danger, he was murdered.
Yes, reckless discharge of a firearm on common grounds of a gated community only yards from several inhabited residential units.
SPD could have nailed him on that one that very night while they investigated further in anticipation of more serious charges. After all, they had a teenage boy’s unarmed body, shot through the heart, on their hands
Did they really think that would be a slider? (Apparently Wolfinger did).
Plus there was a kid out walking his DOG when Fogen discharged his fire-arm. He could have killed ANOTHER kid and/or a DOG!
whoops,missed
I-5: Middle-aged AA male says he heard self-defense was involved with case, at one point referring to Fogen as “gentleman that was defending himself.” KEEP
The victim in this case was a minor!
Talking about coming to the aid. Fogen could have come to the aid of TM, himself, and the community by identifying himself.
Good Samaritan law? Really Mark?
Sure. A good Samaritan helps out his neighborhood by killing kids who visit and walk. It sure helped RTL.
Protecting another person is not taking the law into your own hands.
Bernie should object.
Can Bernie object? It seems neither side has objected against theo ther.
There are stautues that would allow a person to protect a child. He’s just trying to obscure the issue. That has nothing to do with Good Samaritan.
Protecting a child is a reason to take the law in your own hands. Killing a child not so much.
Good point.
((((((( )))))))
O’Mara likes that word “justify”…. was that the same guy who said he wasn’t sympathetic?
Whether right or wrong is arguable, but, at least over here juries are taking sympathy into account when they come to what over here is called a “Perverse” verdict, e.g. the man who grew MJ to help his wife with MS, and despite the Judge instructing them that growing MJ was against UK law, the jury found him not guilty to avoid the greater injustice of sending him to prison.
Good Samaritan law relates to “taking the law into your own hands”?
My understanding of the Good Samaritan law is that you can’t be sued if you stop to render assistance and unwittingly make things worse. I didn’t think it had anything to do with taking the law in your hands.
I agree.
Exactly, it has nothing to do with taking the law into your own hands,
I thought it gave civil immunity to someone coming to the aid of an injured person. Don’t know if Florida has such a law.
I don’t understand this, good Samaritan law only says that you cannot be prosecuted civilly if something bad happens when you are attempting to render aid …..Not about protecting anyone from attack….and has nothing at all to do with taking the law into your own hands….
I thought only a few States in the US had Good Samaritan law.
I made this little list for easy reference while listening
2. B-29 F 40s Black
8. B-55 F 20s E. Indian
14.M-75 F 30s Black
16.B-72 M 20s White/Bi-racial
17.E-22 F 50-60 Black
22.P-67 M 40s-50 Hispanic
24.G-29 F 30s Black
26.G-63 M 20s Mixed
28.G-81 M 30s-40s Black
30. H-18: A dark-skinned looker in his 20s with accent who’s a mechanic, owns his shop with a partner and moved here from Kuwait. Avoids discussing certain topics. “When it’s politics, religion or race, I just don’t get involved.” KEEP
38.I24 m.Black
Thanks!
This guy is trying to hard to convince O’Mara that he won’t be sympathetic…. I wonder why?
I think that O’Mara is trying to ward off any sympathy for the Martin family.
I can’t figure out if the juror is trying to play up to O’Mara for the sake of Trayvon, or Fogen.
I think so too. He mentioned the “loss of a loved one.”
Yes have no sympathy for Fogen, find him guilty of the killing of Trayvon Martin.
Who in the world suggested that GZ slouch down in his chair.
Slouching draws attention and causes the mind to scan the database for possible explanations.
It’s like hanging a sign around the defendant’s neck that says, “I have something to hide. Guess what it is.”
‘Xactly.
GUILTY!!
By his smile it was as if GZ felt alluded when the PJ said she worked with geniuses who had no common sense.
…tie’s too loud, looks like he ate a turd, looks like he snorted coke off a stripper’s tits last night, LOL Ha HA!
To clarify the snark, Mr. O’Mara set it up, by explaining to the PJ, “When I come in, you think of first impressions, like, the tie is too loud…”
🙂 You have a way with words.
At times O’Mara sets up a chain of thought that I would never dream to say in a real life setting, and when he sort of called for a list of first impressions, well…
Crane!
I’ll go to my room for a time out!
Just spent time explaining how jury duty is different from anything they have ever done before. Now he’s saying that it’s not that different from “real life.”
And when a pj stated “you are asking us to use our common sense” he replied ” in this instance”.
I so hope after the jury has retired for deliberations we hear they have requested a tape measure, clock and calculator so they can work out how “reliable” are GZ’s multiple versions!
So now he wants them to disregard witness testimony? He’s trying to plant the seeds of doubt.
I think he means DD’s testimony, not GZ’s !
“I’ve gotta look at if this witness is being straight forward in answering questions.”
Wow, if GZ testifies, O’Mara has just….stick a fork. He’s done.
Why would he do that to himself?
Is O’Mara talking about W6,he of the MMA style delusional statement.
Probably, and he doesn’t want them to use their common sense, and make the leap to the circumstantial evidence that if GZ had been punched in the fact MMA style multiple times he would have had a considerably more battered face, because that would come from life experiences you know.
I can’t get the audio feed , but my manager can get the NBC feed and she said MOM only questioning the black jurors.
If that is true I am sure the white jurors will notice. I do not think they will like it, especially since they said race should not be a factor in this trial. Or that is how I took that yesterday.
Oh really…I did not realize that.
I am not a fan of lowering chairs and presenting your client to be a whittle man who was attacked. This crap reminds me of Casey Anthony and the lowered chair. I better not here the word penis in opening statements, if I do than I am done with Florida. MOM and Baez could be brothers.
Remember, though, that Baez gave the early drafts of Serino’s memos to BDLR suggesting that they were “exculpatory” and that BDLR was required to turn them over in an evidence dump. Let’s withhold our judgment of Baez for a while and see what gives when Serino his a witness.
when Serino IS a witness. sorry
True. I just meant in this style of jurors and swapping blame.
exculpatory of Serino
@disappointed
Brings to mind, why didn’t whittle lil man stay in his whittle truck, he wouldn’t have needed his gun.
‘ehem
There are a lot of smart people on this panel.
I said that very early on today
when i had finished my spreadsheet – that was my takeaway. the defense will want to strike them all for various reasons. that, in my mind, is one of the most significant things BDLR accomplished yesterday.
Omara didn’t bother to respond to PJs’ response just moved to the next PJ.
Aaahhpop, Fogen just schouched down again!
These two last talking about “accountability” could raise alarm bells with the defence !
Agreed!
The defense wants “accountability” to mean that Trayvon Benjamin Martin should have bowed down to Fogen and that after he was killed, his parents should have apologized to Fogen for their son’s having forced him to commit murder. Yeah, we all need lessons in “accountability” from the likes of Fogen and his Fogenites. Right.
Agreed, they WANT it to mean that Trayvon was “accountable” for his “street attitude” probably but it just don’t mean that… I hope !
O’Mara does not like the word “accountable” it’s on his ban list, he will get rid of that PJ
Is he finding the independent thinkers who speak up, a chase to show themselves?
It sure looks like he’s drawing them out. These are the people he doesn’t want on the jury.
Shame is does MOM want “independent thinkers”, IMO the prosecution is more in need of those than the defence.
B7 (4th in the box) asked a great question regarding the use of professional jurors that O’Mara did not recognize to be a criticism of O’Mara’s question.
B7 is smarter than O’Mara.
she is a minority, according to my records. that will be a tough challenge to get by judge nelson, i do believe. 🙂
Mom is simply insulting them.
one PJ is saying he is concerned with Omara!
Great!
lol
What is up with Fogen in the short chair, are they trying to hide his weight gain? He looks like an idiot. Sorry if I sound B****y, that is what happens when I listen to Omara, Please dont put West up or I might just lose it lol
They want him to look small and incapable of defending himself without using a gun.
It really makes me sick how the “justice” system is not about justice, it’s about which side delivers the best theatrical performance.
Omara is a devil. He reminds me of that snake in Jungle Book who is always trying to hypnotize the others so he can eat them.
What is this PJ talking about- professional juror?
I think it was a good question. O’Mara is claiming that the jury is not prepared , and the guy answered, ” if you think a ay jury is not prepared to take on this job, why don’t we have professional jurors”.
I see what you are saying, thank you.
all man, she got back up! LOL
MOM has it in for this juror because she made him look stupid…
Did O’Mara just insult this PJ?
Seriously, is he insulting people?
Well at 27 years old Fogen didn’t have any common sense. He wouldn’t be charged with murder if he did.
The pjs state their number now before answering.
Very allert!
Mom thinks assumptions are allways wrong and we don’t really all have common sense.
Guilt weighing him down Professor. Like an elephant trying to hide behind a tree.
I don’t think he is even feeling guilt. I think it’s fear.
That too, a voice in his head keep saying ‘this is happening really really happening’
Malisha, don’t is look like it won’t be long before Fogen breaks into tears?
QUICK! MORE XANAX!
I don’t think he has the slightest of guilt. He definitely looks fearful as if he is rethinking his actions especially when certain questions are answered.
MOM is not personable at all to the PJ’s. He is not even trying to make an effort to call them by or even remember their numbers! Totally lacking respect for these people.
Is O’Mara trying to imply Trayvon was too young to have common sense, that’s why he jumped Fogen (according to Fogen)??
I remember when he thought his client was too young to have common sense
LOL – OM thinks he has common sense. Yeah, um, OK – just like your client!
Did MOM just use the slang term… Dissin!
Wonder why he chose to use that term with PJ #B29.
He is such a bigoted fraud. Grrrr! It’s shameful, but you would have to have a conscious to experience shame.
Despicable!
He don’t shame easy.
Melisha says… “He don’t shame easy”
If at all.
B29 is a smart lady.
Okay I figured out Rene Stutzman’s white attire. It appears to be a jacket or sweater that she puts on. Apparently they have that courtroom cooled like an operating room, which the PJs need today, to stay awake for O’Mara’s breakfast rambling stream of consciousness.
Not to mention they have 40 jurors stuffed in and around the jury box.
Smart move too. Closer it gets’ to 5pm today the colder the room preparing if Frye Hearing goes past 5pm this afternoon, Everyone was unbearingly hot last time and having to listen West/Wayman over 3hrs, with no air conditioning, ugh…
Well, yes, and there is the possibility that someone could get sick, sitting for that long, in that stuffy hot setting.
Oh yes, I sure didn’t think of that. Heaven forbid O’mara and West both pass out and court is held up for a day or two. Plays right into we need a ‘continuance game, even if its’ a day or two.
Fogen should have thought his decision through.
The breakfast decision, perhaps? What’s wrong with 50 donuts?
Too many holes, so little time?
Professor, I’m hysterical! STOPPIT! I keep visualizing it — NO NOOOOOOOOOO!
GZ is making himself so small that he can almost rest his chin on the table.
Maybe I should have said, “chins.”
😀
Does anybody know if any TV stations have a live stream?
clickorlando.com
Thanks Dave, is that a station on TV too? I’m searching some cable stations now
I don’t know
chi, I am using http://www.wftv.com/s/zimmerman-livestream/
I like it because it doesn’t use much bandwidth, a lot less than NBC. I have a wimpy DSL LOL
Thank you
MOM used the cookie question because George ate all of Mark’s Snickerdoodles.
Here: cookies for Fogen:
http://thepintertestkitchen.com/pintermess-nasty-jello-cookies/
ene Stutzman@renestutzman27m
Huh? O’Mara just compared U.S Constitution to Windows 8.
#GeorgeZimmerman, #TrayvonMartin
HAHAHAHAHA HA HA! “Your Honor, the fact that these charges were brought against my client is unwindowseightable!”
I laughed too because he said there were like 30 versions of Windows 8. Wouldn’t that make it Windows 30?
It’s okay to share a bowl of a warmed-up last night’s dinner from WalMart with the parrot for breakfast, right?
Yep. My mom’s yellow naped amazon used to eat left over pizza for breakfast.
Nikko refuses to eat, unless Fred shares with him. From Fred’s dish. The food tastes better, if it’s in Fred’s dish.
That’s so funny, but I can picture it. Birds are pretty amazing animals. My mom had hers for almost 30 years. He always ate dinner with the family, right by the table on his perch. People thought my parents were nuts, lol
Oh, same with my parents also. They had cockatoos for years, that were part of the family just like kids.
My family passed nuts eons ago.
Would prefer crackers …
Bird’s so damn spoiled, he’d turn his nose up at the sight of mere crackers…
Crane~ I had a double yellow headed amazon. Enjoyed drinking cream sherry. Ate with a spoon.
________________________________
Awwwwwww….
Crane~ Yes. Parrots rarely if ever poison your food.
________________________________
Following the chat at the WTFV site shows many followers are of the opinion that MOM’s questioning is superior to Bernie’s, but they’re mostly the ones still making arguments that it’s not illegal to follow someone, etc.
I can’t follow which juror is saying what, but I’ll bet the prosecution team is taking notes.
What’s a good counterargument to the claim that it’s not illegal to follow someone?
So what?
Whether lawful or not, is an irrelevant consideration.
The issue is what was the defendant’s intent.
Thanks, professor. 🙂
I’d say it depends on what sort of following was done. And then of prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the following on foot came after he chased the teen off the roadway with his menacing driving.
The professor had a good explanation in a post a few days back. While the act itself is not illegal, it is part and parcel of the murderous act. Example–buying a gun is not illegal. Buying a gun for the express purpose of murdering your wife is another story.
“SO LONG AS YOU DON’T KILL HIM.”
-in the dark of night
-on a desolate street
-after that someone has communicated that they do not want to be followed (by running away)
The FBI can’t even do that
http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/27/fbi-deactivates-about-3-000-gps-tracking-devices-loses-sight-of/
15 minute recess. Return at 10:45 EDT.
Deciding who you are going to marry isn’t relevant either because love is the dominant factor.
Unless of course you are a sociopath like that wide guy sitting there…
ZING! Bullseye, Willis.
Fogen noddin knowledgably like he’s some fucking sage.
Nodding, saying, “See, you can choose ‘not guilty’ if you like blueberry muffins!’ I know I like strawberry poptarts and I would!”
Deciding what you’re going to eat has nothing to do with the burden of proof.
It’s a dumb parallel O’Mara is trying to draw. Choosing breakfast is not an evidence-based decision.
Well, if you really want sugar pops and there aren’t any in the cupboard, the evidence suggests that you might want to pick the cornflakes b/c you have some in the cupboard.
yea, choosing your breakfast is a poor choice for making a point.
I chose to eat cornflakes today because I believed beyond a reasonable doubt that they weren’t poisoned. I bought them from a trusted source in a sealed container and the ones I ate yesterday didn’t kill me. There is, of course, a faint possibility that someone snuck into the house when I wasn’t looking and poisoned them but that doesn’t raise a reasonable doubt. If I only believed that they were safe to eat by preponderance of evidence I wouldn’t have eaten them.
Remind me not to eat cornflakes any more ! MOM is probably the poisoner, lol.
Too bad you aren’t one of the PJs so you could put him down with that answer.
It does have to do with good or bad choices, though. Fogen made a bad choice in killing Trayvon Martin and … uh … some other bad choices more recently. 😆
GZ was born ignorant and has been losing ground every since that time.
Picking one of two available suits to wear is a preponderance of the evidence standard??????????
Oh sure. You can pick this Navy Blue pinstriped suit that has been purchased for you, tailored to you, fits you perfectly and makes you look like a million bucks, or you can pick this other suit that is a combination of fluorescent orange (“he kept smashing my head on the sidewalk so I shimmied and my jacket came up”) and chartreuse (“so I had to walk over to that street there because there were no house numbers or street signs available for me to tell the police”) and a sort of splotchy brown with puce highlights (“to be honest with you I had forgotten that I had my weapon with me until I felt his hand…”) although it is the wrong size and there are no buttons. It’s all up to you! That’s the American way!
The orange suit comes with a free while sheet and matching pillowcase with eye holes already cut out, tho.
O’Mara is using a terrible analogy here, w/ the breakfast thing.
Crane-Station, I missed the “breakfast analogy.” Would you have a moment to describe it? I love to hear about anything terrible that O’Mara did.
I am afraid I cannot add much insight, but it had something or another to do with what level of certainty one has, in choosing cornflakes over oatmeal for breakfast.
Or something. Did you pick cornflakes because of a preponderance of the evidence, or did you eat cornflakes because you knew beyond a reasonable doubt…
It was very odd. Maybe someone else can explain it better. Bottom line is, it was a poor analogy, I thought, in that it was oversimplified to the point where, it may have lost meaning, for one, and it may have confused the PJs, for another.
Bill Sheaffer noting the difference between BDLR and MOM’s technique. He says by not asking yes or no questions, MOM is getting longer more detailed answers from the PJs, thus giving him more detailed info about who he wants and doesn’t want on the jury.
I think he’s right, that the two are different, but I’M not sure one is more effective than the other in terms of the overall trial strategy. Of course, BDLR gets to listen to these answers, so he gets info from what MOM elicits as well. MOM’s interaction with the jury is both more annoying and more engaging at the same time. He’s being more Socratic than BDLR was: not feeding the answers so much, and getting the jurors more actively involved. They may like that. But they may be put off when they do give an opinion and he seems unsatisfied with it.
In short, while I don’t think MOM’s being stellar here by any means, It seems to me he’s doing a better job (for his client and case) than most of you seem to think.
I think Mom may be getting more detailed information from them, he is also acting like he has a broom shoved up his butt as opposed to Bernie who had them feeling pretty good after the questioning. I doubt they will feel the same at the end of today and I think they will like Mom less for his way of approaching it. Just me though. 🙂
I don’t think he is necessarily helping his clients case because when they hear his clients explanations of what happened that night they will think his explanations are not reasonable at all and they will doubt he is telling the truth.. because much of the first hand knowledge of the confrontation will come from GZ and if he is seen as unreliable, the State wins..
I believe when they start to see and hear the evidence, they will think back and wonder what the hell kind of nonsense was he spouting.
MOM is doing okay. But I think asking for long drawn out answers from jurors makes them slightly uncomfortable and doesn’t endear him on a personal level to the PJs. BDLR never made anyone feel uncomfortable.
Which of these two guys would you buy a used washing machine from?
I think MOM’s primary accomplishment is in not being Don West.
Don “the yawn” West is not ready for prime time. BDLR makes Jay Leno look nervous on camera. MOM is somewhere near the lower end of the middle of that spectrum IMO.
Now take credibility as a factor and plot George Zimmerman’s statements to SPD and his interview with Sean Hannity. somewhere beneath the kremlin there may be a sub-sub basement deep enough to plot his credibility level on a chart.
I respectfully disagree with Schaeffer.
The lawyers have to strike a balance between obtaining sufficient information to intelligently exercise their peremptory challenges and indoctrinate the jury with the legal foundation of their theory of the case.
Prosecutors are generally more concerned about indoctrinating because they have the burden of proof.
I believe Bernie struck that balance very well.
O’Mara is getting more information, but it isn’t personal information and I do not think it’s particularly useful.
Some of his analogies are lame and inappropriate, for example, and he’s talking down to some of the jurors, which is kind of insulting and probably causes some of them to wonder about his intelligence..
I agree, O’Mara comes across as condescending to me. I noticed it last week.
I think that in part, O’Mara is benefitting from BDLR’s warm-up yesterday. Think about how reluctant most were to reveal very much in the individual, to the much more chatty conversation by the end of day yesterday–and revealing some pretty powerful stuff about experiences (like instances of perceived injustice). O’Mara is asking questions and getting challenges to what he presents. Which may be helpful, but it is also annoying to the jurors.
Small break in MO’M’s dribble to answer the palm question from the other week. Yes this would be better if I could actually touch those slimy paws, but honestly I wouldn’t want to be that close to someone so negatively charged.
Overall GZ has an Earth hand – square palms, short fingers. He acts NOTHING like he should. EH’s are no nonsense level headed people.
GZ’s head and life lines are joined which I find interesting since his hand(at least in the pic I’m using from icfools) it not line heavy. Now compared to mine and most peoples these two lines start at the same area – between the thumb and index with the life line curving down towards the heel of palm/wrist and the life line heading across the palm.
To me it looks as if GZ life line starts in the head line this could be representative of his overall health, some sign of weakness or lack of vitality. It also splits at the end so there is potential for good and bad in his life.
The head line is short showing how much time he has spent in the realm of thought(shocker). Its forked as well showing signs of contradiction within oneself.(again shocker) It also shows a combined sense of imagination, intelligence and business sense. WE have seen how all three have really panned out for him.
Heart line(starting at the small fingering and moving towards the thumb) lots of breaks and branches – emotional breakdowns from fear and fatigue. focusing only on the beginning and mid sections of this line because of his age there is evidence of not the greatest childhood(which is reflected in how his life line looks) and health issues(heart specifically). Also signs that GZ is more a physical love sort of person and not an emotional one.
Summary: GZ is a mess. If someone has the other hand I can give that one a peak, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the other gives the same story.
That was really interesting, thank you.
You are not making it any better, O’Mara.
Worse, amsterdam, steadily worse !
A pundit is saying elsewhere that O’Mara is being smarter than BDLR because he’s making the jury talk rather than just answer yes or no, and by getting them to talk, he can more easily tell who he doesn’t want on the jury. Meanwhile, BDLR, with his yes or no answers, didn’t get enough information to make good decisions.
What do you think about that point?
Unless BDLR is sitting there with earplugs in, he is still hearing what they have to say, and he is not irritating the snot out of them in the process.
Good point.
BDLR get’s to listen now and take notes as to who he want’s, that pundit is an idiot… BDLR got plenty of info and is getting more info now..
Trial~ AND Bernie spent his time WISELY by getting the JPs to trust and like him. NOW he can glean additional info at MOM’s expense. I think that’s SMART.
________________________________
I think BDLR has more faith in the jury pool as a whole and moved on to use his time to set the stage for his case as he will present it. MOM is still fishing for the ONE person who might be willing to be a holdout and hang a jury.
Yes he is getting more info but that’s because in part BDLR didn’t waste time doing MOMs job for him.
Each approach is valid; they differ.
MOMs main point to convey is the beyond a reasonable doubt standard and he made it but IMO BDLRs point was made by his ENTIRE seven hour session- that what GZ did is “beyond what is reasonable for anyone to do, ever”.
So MOM may learn more about each individual juror but he doesn’t get to pick all six he wants.
Imagine they were two cooks ina kitchen making alphabet soup. MOM wants only the vowels in his soup and BDLR is adding hot sauce by the cup full because he loves spicy food. Who’s more likely to get what they want when the judge ladles out soup?
I think it doesn’t matter who gets them to talk, both sides benefit from the information. Omara is deliberately trying to confuse them. I think some of them realize it & have been bold enough to point it out. He is doing damage to his crediibility even though he doesn’t care.
I disagree. BDLR used his chance to get the jury THINKING, not blurting. While blurting goes on by one person, 39 others are judging not only the QUESTIONER but also the RESPONDER. These jurors, including those who get on the jury ultimately and those who do not, have started a PROCESS that is going to bring them to a rational decision and as we know, there is only one decision here that will be rational.
At this point it is not so much important about whom to exclude; more important is how to allow those who are NOT excluded to access their own critical thinking capacities. I’m with BDLR on this one. He is an educator. I’m with him all the way on this one. He increased the power of the jury with his questions yesterday; essentially, he was asking them over and over, various ways: “Don’t you feel that you will be equal to the task? Because I have faith in your equality to the task and you should too.”
I think the pundit must have been watching the wrong hearing. Maybe he was watching the one in which The Wiester referred to as “A Circus” or “A Show”.
Professor BDLR had those jurors eating out of the palm of his hands, Once he posed the question, he didn’t have to speak.
Those jurors started raising their hands and volunteering all sorts of important information. So many hands were going up, BDLR almost had a problem keeping up with them.
Oh, BDLR definitely had ’em talking, talking about things O’Dirty and The Wiester wished were never mentioned.
jmho
@RobertSF,
This may strike you as crude (or, let’s say, practical) … every PJ that O’Mara “strikes,” he bumps up the number of UNtouchable PJs (Blacks, Hispanics, Women) whom he can’t remove without Judge Nelson’s blessing.
O’Mara’s easy take-outs basically are White Men.
If this ends up as a majority-Black jury, you can thank O’Mara.
Man O’Mara is boring me to tears.
x2
E40 (10th) believes there is “a responsibility around guns.”
E73 (12th) believes it’s too easy to get a concealed weapons permit.
B37 (6th in the box) believes that just because you have a concealed weapons permit does not mean you know how to use a gun responsibly.
All very promising if they get in.
responsible gun owners do not support the defendant’s actions.
Thank the L… whoever !
I expect O’Mara to get rid of them, unfortunately.
Even if O’Mara gets rid of every single juror who says something worth hearing, a wonderful process is taking place. These outspoken, thoughtful people are teaching a way of THINKING to the others because they are publicly saying: “Here is the way to critically analyze what this guy blabs out.” THEY are all teaching their cohort. BDLR made a classroom of teachers. This will ABIDE right into the deliberation room. WOW! It’s like they have been inoculated against Foginfection!
Malisha~ YOU are a treasure! YES! Critical thinking will slice right through MOM fog.
________________________________
@Malisha
My thoughts exactly. Professor BDLR certainly did some serious teaching.
“An impartial jury”
You mean from the jury pool you peed in, Mr. O’Mara?
Exactly.
@ Crane. You are absolutely killing me, for real. Gotta love ya.
I’m not as mean as I sound, for real!
Whoa oh, Shellie sitting next to Fogens’ Mom..
Missus Fogen dwarfs Gladazz.
HA! Mr. Fogen must be stuck in a Whoville traffic jam.
I just saw that as well. I wonder who is attending today’s session? Where is the bodyguard? Where is RZ senior? junior? Taafe? the sister? Etc – do we have our attendance roll call yet?
So far I see Shellie and Gladys.
Shellie isn’t looking as good as she did on her first day. She has that pouty/defiant look on her face again.
Jr. sent emails to the press explaining that his parents (who are responsible for the ongoing care for a relative with Alzheimers) are sacrificing their security in order to show up and support their son.
Stuck in a Whoville traffic jam, baking cookies for the jury or medicating Robert senior so he can sit next to Shellie. No telling what Fogens’ could be up to.
THey may be taking turns watching Grandma Cristina.
Willis, For anyone who is interested in listening to another raft of lies, I just heard on HLN that Junior will be a guest on Piers Morgan tonight. Again. Yet again. His last visit with Morgan about a week ago was so offensive. I was in a rage for days over it. He stated repeatedly that “Everyone knows that Trayvon loved to fight until he saw blood . . . ” and that Trayvon was well known to “grow his own marijuana plants.” Just outright lies and slander. I wish he could have been arrested for lying so outrageously. B#stard.
I am still reeling from the fact that 19 PJ’s of 40 had guns.
Florida is a very pro-gun state. The sign going on to the beach by my house says no dogs or alcohol, but guns are allowed.
Just unbelievable for someone here in the UK.
Anywhere you can have a gun but not a dog is a place you do not want to GO! Even a CAT knows THAT!
Chil1224, Was it on here that I read that over a million Florida residents have CCW permits? Unbelievable.
I don’t know if it was posted here, but I can believe it. Florida is VERY pro-gun. I own one to protect myself from the Fogen’s of the world, but truthfully I do not like guns.
Gives pause, does it not?
It sure does, TO, pause for deep thought !
That’s why Florida’s is “The Gunshine State!”
Sunshine AND Gunshine
: – )
Mostly “Gunshine,” in recent years. And they seem proud of it. (That’s not to say they’re alone on that score … unfortunately, my state is undergoing a similar devolution in recent years!)
Sunshine, Gunshine and Moonshine makes for a deadly trio.
gbrbsb — that fact did not surprise me. what did though, was that when they began speaking of it, their answers were so ‘fast and furious’ that even at my typing speed, i could not keep up adequately. that was the only question which was difficult for me as a live transcriber.
The Second Amendment doesn’t mention CCW PERMITS. Is he trying to suggest that the permits are unconstitutional?
“We don’t let children have guns”
??
not true, Mr. O’Mara
The crickett rifle, for example, is specifically designed for small children: “My First Rifle”
So. Here in Kentucky, a five-year-old recently killed his 2-yr-old sister with one.
Get your facts straight, O’Mara.
Good point. And very sad.
Good catch! I remember reading about that case.
Judge Judy is continually laying in to parents who give their kids BB guns and then come to court to claim damages when their kids get hurt playing with it with friends… and with no supervision!
Yup. It never occurred to me to have a gun around my son. In fact, before he was born 28 years ago, I owned a Colt Python and had a permit to carry for a while.
When my son was born, I gave the gun away.
MOM is so full of himself. And pompous.
I’m looking forward to the start of this trial because the prosecution will bring Trayvon Martin back to this jury. THAT is the reason they are there, they will get to know the boy that was KILLED by Fogen!
Absolutely. He is completely left out of this part.
Oh, oh. She’s saying that bearing arms implies some responsibility. O’M isn’t gonna like that.
Yeah, a couple of those will be gone, since they want the privilege of carrying a gun to come with some responsibility and one thinks that CCPermits are too easy and the training isn’t adequate They have some common sense MOM won’t want them
Has the prosecution ever argued that GZ shouldn’t have had a CCW permit? The only question, as far as I can tell, is about whether he was justified in using it to end the life of an unarmed, unknown teenager.
elcymoo~ unless the prosecution is going to introduce the possibility that gz’s CCW was invalid.
________________________________
I don’t see Tray’s parents today. If I could, I would bring a large photo of him to sit in the courtroom every day. His liberty was taken away permanently. There was a victim here & it wasn’t gz. A person, a kid is dead. gz can sit in the court every day & Trayvon can’t. I hope Bernie constantly reminds them.
My feelings exactly!
2X’s
I saw them just before the opening. Dignified, as usual.
Hope Bernie flashes the picture of Trayvon on a horse early and often … to me it’s the one that most conveys a life cut short via murder.
To me, the photo of Trayvon at the aeronautics place, dark blue shirt, his face glowing, is the one that conveys the loss of a future. His face is more animated in that photo than in any of the others. His excitement about his chosen field is obvious.
They are there. I saw them. They are sitting on the other side.
Trayvon Benjamin Martin’s liberty interests were taken away by Fogen in conspiracy with private and state agencies; his life interest was taken as well. I think, the same way. I would love to see this become the test case for a 42 USC Section 1983 action based on the up-until-now-absent-from-our-law “LIFE INTEREST.”
I couldn’t agree more.
Malisha, you have such great writing skills. Quite often your posts express my very own thoughts. You have such an eloquent way with words.
During my lurking days on this blog, in addition to Professor’s comments, I would look for your wonderful commentary. You really should write a book about this case.
Thank you for your many in depth insights about this case, and others. Keep up the great work! 🙂
i am not certain, but i expect the judge would order it to be removed. angela corey herself has been admonished by judges to remove her jewelry before the court because it is an ostentatious gold cross pendant.
He is making a muck of understanding distinctions. A firm conviction is not wavering. He wanted them to comment on how they would vote if they had a firm conviction that IS wavering.
And he’s getting argumentative with pjs.
Isn’t it true that if evidence presented is insufficient to convict, the judge would dismiss rather than even giving to jury?
I think you are right, at least that can happen here in the UK, but professor can clarify if, when and how under US law. But I don’t think that will be the case here, no way.
No I agree. He is not walking away from this.
O’Mara did not take a chance with a motion to dismiss or a SYG hearing so this is not relevant. There already was probable cause – that’s over.
A good example of the difference between civil and criminal cases is the OJ case.
That’s one reason OJ fled to Florida. More asset protection from the civil judgment the Goldman family won.
She Understands MOM you just don’t want her too…
Don’t think he expected to be challenged by a pj.
By the end of the day, PJs may be throwing mud pies.
LOL!
MOM is an idiot… get on with your questioning, sounds like he is trying to persuade them into liking “fogen”(what does that mean) instead of trying to determine if they can be impartial and look at the evidence stacked against him (fogen)
Fogen has a likeability quotient lower than a worm’s tummy.
This is very good for the other jurors to see, even if she does get removed for it; it teaches them that they are to trust their own intelligence, trust their own understanding, not be pushed around by O’Mara (or anyone else).
He is getting schooled. LMAO
Whoah – brave girl!!! Good for you!
I bet O’Mara gets rid of her.
She is too smart to buy his bullshit.
That’s right … give him the apples and oranges lecture. MOM might learn something. .
The PJ telling O’Mara it’s wrong to compare the two, lmao!
did you get her juror #? inquiring minds, etc., etc.
No, I didn’t…. wish I had
First off what money? Fogen did not have pot to piss in until he killed a minor child and a bunch of fools sent him money.
What he is trying to say is that in civil cases a conviction can result in a fine, in a criminal case it can be imprisonment.
Actually – a criminal case can also result in one’s life if talking about the death penalty – So when they are talking about prison or death – that is “liberty.” And if they are going to take that, there has to be a higher burden of proof than if they are just going to hit you up for a fine.
The Judge has had to jump in and stop O’Mara a couple of times for going out of bounds. He’s no Bernie de la Rionda!
O’Mara trying hard to connect but it’s not happening.
No he’s not, he’s trying to confuse them and they are NOT buying his bs!
From our POV, but if these jurors really don’t know much about the case or OM, he might be connecting with him more than we think.
@two sides
yes, it is important for us to realize our own bias in this. i slept through most of o’mara’s theatrics so was unable to gauge the PJ’s reactions. what i did see though was a reaction somewhat paltry compared to BDLR’s, but i know it is human nature to remember that which they heard most recently.
Wow, take money from Fogen, really O’mara talking about after the fact.
Stoopid stoopid move!!!
O’Mara is walking a dangerous path. He is sort of conceding the fact that the state would meet the proponderous of the evidence standard in this case.
WTF is O’Mara talking about? I think he’s deliberately trying to confuse the PJ’s.
That super cute security guy isn’t in the front row today. I need my eye candy.
the bald guy?
Yes. He wore a star badge and a wire thing in his ear. Usually he wore a navy blue suit coat.
I figured that was him. He looked like a nice guy.
civil vs criminal. Fool you are going to confuse these poor people.
Intentionally!!!! That is all he has been trying to do since he agreed to take the job!
Confusion, ambiguity and complexity are the defense’s goals.
What about Trayvon Martin’s “liberty”???
because he is innoculating them with the burden of what the penalty is going to be, taking his liberty, locking him up for many many years he wants them to also consider that while they are deliberating, even though they should not have to consider penalty, or what happens after. So he has two objectives, to raise the standard from REASONABLE doubt to beyond a shadow of a doubt and to impress upon them that they will be putting GZ in jail for a whole lot of years, hoping that some will waver at putting him in jail for life., even if they think he’s guilty.
Oscar~ SO WHAT?? I say, after gz dies, let’s bring him back from the dead and LEAVE him in prison for ANOTHER lifetime! How about that?
________________________________
Unfortunately, albeit we are here for that, in the justice system “Trayvon’s” rights, liberty, etc. are no longer of importance, only whether GZ murdered him and should therefore be punished and put away so he is not a danger to the public.
What does lesser burden in civil case have to do with this criminal case? This is not a civil case.
He’s just trying to see if they understand why a criminal case has a higher burden of proof. He just has to make it difficult.
Punishment … did you hear the juror use that word, Fogen?
If he did he is out for sure and if he was the one before this women and the previous guy, I really like him as intelligent and reflexive (the one with the very distinctive accent).
Please. Why do you call gz Fogen?
Short for “May his name be forgotten”.
This is a contraction of an ancient incantation meaning “Forget his Name.” It means that when somebody becomes “famous” for doing evil, we should remember that it is unacceptable and that we reject it, but we should also FORGET his NAME so that he does not find his way into ETERNITY by doing evil and live in our memories. It takes away the POWER that evil has by letting us forget HIS NAME. We should remember Trayvon Benjamin Martin’s name and forget Fogen’s.
Thank you.
No, I missed that, wow. Hope you can remember which one so we can keep an ear open for that PJ and see how it plays out
good catch. Trained Observer
Fogen sit up! Slouching. you lazy bum..
He wants the jury to think that he’s shorter than he is. That’s also why is sitting between two tall men.
Morning Dave. I think I understand why the defense chose this theatric. Doesn’t look like its working for what they have tried to achieve, reminds of Serinos’ ‘lil hero’ comment.
Truly doesn’t help, jmo
slouching towards GUILTY.
The little cocksure bantam punk stood up straight in the station house when he had been assured that he had a “walk” on the murder — stood up plenty straight until the day of the “potted plant” takedown and now, slink slank slunk.
Shamelessly GUILTY.
Uh oh Judge Nelson put the brakes on O’Mara.
That guy’s gone.
Stealth juror, really O’mara!
Better that 10 guilty go free than one be wrongly convicted.
Is Fogen sleeping?
I wish he were sleeping. I can hardly keep from throwing up when he laughs and smiles. That killer has NOTHING to smile about for the rest of his life, ever. It makes me violently ill so see him laughing away.
I feel the same Abby, he makes me sick too
If I were BDLR, I would have to pay attention, but I’m not BDLR, thank goodness. Time for a pedicure.
fauxmccoy, thanks so much for the spreadsheet. awesome work.
Yes it is… Thank you very much Fauxmccoy!
you are welcome too, soulsista — i can see it’s getting plenty of use, but no abuse. obviously posting the link to it means that anyone with the link can read it – but there are only a couple of us who can edit. didn’t want anyone messing with my hard work.
oh, thank you kindly – it was a labor of love for “leatherman & the suedes” 🙂
professor, when asserting an affirmative defense such as self defense, doesn’t the defendant have the burden of proving his claim to some extent before the prosecution must prove its claim?
is it just me or is the sound off…?
It’s off on the original link- this one is working:
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbcnews.com/52117880/
Try Channel 9, recommended by SoulSistaWoo above … sound is great this morning
http://www.wftv.com/s/zimmerman-livestream/
The sound is on. Try the msnbc link.
Can we all sing a chorus of Abide With Me?
Oh yeah, like on the Titanic !
I wish Bernie could stand up and say– Don’t worry, after the evidence is presented NOBODY will be wavering!!
Well MOM you suck at communicating. I am not even sure what you are talking about.
Most of them don’t get it either. When someone talks to me in that condescending manner, I pull back and dislike them for being so pompous. Can’t imagine they would react differently.
Respect the Black Robe O’mara! Ha, Judge Deborah kept your courtoom in control with your bad self!
Ic2, I’m on board with you. She’d better not let the courtroom run amok, not let her courtroom go “Ito” on her. I don’t think she will, though. Ito’s inability to control his own courtroom sent a chill through the judicial system, IMO, and judges appear to be determined now not to allow that to happen to them. Nelson’s good. I just feel it, so far.
I have much respect for Judge Nelson and like how she is handling Omara twisty tales.
Wait, he’s plucked and played on her last nerve too many times. She’s had with him everytime he veers off she’s gonna embarass him everytime.
i don’t think we’ll be seeing any ‘dancing nelsons’ in comedy shows.
How can a juror have ‘an ABIDING conviction of guilt that’s ‘WAVERING”? ‘VACILLATING’? How is that ‘ABIDING’? Thank goodness that JN interjected that SHE will give jury instructions? And now is reading part of the instructions. Move on, MOM!
He’s just trying to convince them that they have to decide not beyond a reasonable doubt but actually beyond a shadow of a doubt…he wants them to think that any doubt at all is a reasonable doubt, even if it makes no common sense at all.
It was in the jury instructions that JN read. I thought at first he was making up the terminology.
Fogen’s looking down a lot. An abiding conviction of guilt.
That’s right O’Mara, YOU don’t give the jury instructions! STFU!
you have an abiding conviction of guilt but….. it’s ok you don’t know, I haven’t told you yet,
This isn’t Seminole State College for dummies like Fogen. When is MOM going to get around to asking some pertinent questions of jurors?
wth is he trying to say? Abiding? Guilt.
Abiding means long lasting.
follow
Fuck you O’Mara, posting pics of pot plants and a black hand with a gun and now you’re here talking about innocence and circumstantial evidence. F**** YOU!!!!
I know right? The weed and gun pics totally invalidate his credibility regarding circumstantial evidence.
Invalidates his credibility totally!
This analogy is stupid. If the grass is wet is the driveway also wet? Is the car wet? Is the other foliage wet? If everything is wet….Like Bernie said, use your God given common sense.
It’s FLORIDA! It could be pouring across the street and your driveway be dry. Do these people live in this sunshine state with its absurd rain patterns???
Rene was wearing her white shirt for the State’s voir dire. Today for the Defense voir dire she’s wearing a dark shirt. Color symbolism? MEDIA BIAS AGAINST GEORGE!!! :0
Who was that woman talking about the cookie that maybe a kid gave to another kid? She needs to go!
does anyone have sound or is this a ploy by MOM to obfuscate his lies?
This link has sound:
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbcnews.com/52117880/
What about the “concept” of a dead body with a bullet in the heart? Might be murder?
This ain’t “rain” you idiot!
What is is Judge Judy always says – don’t pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining?
Bless that Judge Judy’s straightforward observation. She has a book by that name, and it’s a winner: “Don’t Pee on My Leg . . . “
Should we now refer to GZ as ‘CAZ’, for ‘citizen accused zimmerman’, since ‘citizen accused’ obviously has an entirely different meaning than ‘defendant’, even though both terms mean the guy has been accused of some wrongdoing?
Is the entire morning likely to be devoted to this sort of blather?
Whatever O’Mara calls him he is a defendant accused of murder, the Judge and BLDR will refer to him as the defendant.
Very new here, I am enjoying the discussion but as a newbie please someone help me out, is O’Mara trying to convince the Jurors that to use circumstantial evidence the bar is not beyond reasonable doubt…l.but beyond any shadow of a doubt? That is what it sounds like to me anyway
Berney yesterday referred to the “shadow” phrase as one often used in movies. He stressed that “reasonable doubt” is the key phrase.
Is the audio muted for anyone else? Why is that?
Try NBC which is working fine for me and others:
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbcnews.com/52117880/
No muting here. Try the NBC link above in the link. It has great sound and picture.
Thanks!
GZ’s booboo’s are circumstantial evidence unless GZ takes the stand.
YES! how they came to be is also hearsay unless told by anyone but the defendant. how convenient for us!
O’Mara’s whining about labels b/c he has no defense. His client murdered a kid in cold blood.
He’s out for damage control… I am not sure that Bernie did actually say that evidence and CE were exactly the same, more like that it is another type of valid evidence.
This format doesn’t suit O’Mara. He can’t do this for as many hours as Bernie, without losing the jurors attention.
Yeah he’s not connecting very well with the jury.
Yeah, I had thought your comment above “not doing a very good job at it” was a bit of an understatement. At this soporific rate MOM will put at least some of them to sleep.
Snoooze …. Even Bernie would have difficulty topping his own performance yesterday.
Oooh, O’Mara don’t go there, “on what could or could not happen”
because we can definitely show what your client said could not happen
Will George’s text messages come in? If they come in will Trayvon’s?
george’s records will come in if they are relevant to this case. it would take an act of god for trayvon’s to be admitted.
Notice how Hirschorn often seems to be blocking the camera view of GZ, who appears to be attempting to disappear himself in the chair by sliding his butt as far under the table as he can.
noticed it yesterday
Yeah I noticed that as well. Short of when he moves to do something or the camera angle is just right we aren’t getting much full on face time with those beady little eyes.
rayvenwolf~ probably because so many people here commented on how those beady eyes make people feel uncomfortable. Poor soulcatcher(?) SWORE he was looking at her! So…. today they make sure that the home viewing audience doesn’t get too much of those beady weasely guilty eyes.
________________________________
Hadn’t noticed until you posted today.
I just went back and looked and low and behold, Hirschorn leans waaay forward and blocks out Fogen.
Great observation!
Why do you think he’s doing this.
. = ?
My new tag line
WorldPress needs an EDIT button for the challenged, i.e. me. 🙂
You’d need a zip code to block out GZ, Imma check it out, hadn’t seen that.
LOL… It’s magica!
Shoulda damn done THAT on 2/26/2012 in his own damn schruck. a55hole.
Sista, I think he is doing it because they have realized that the jurors being able to see Fogen’s immature, irritating, uncontrollable fakey-dominant mugging will alienate almost anyone with a double-digit i.q. They now want him to be the “invisible citizen happenstancibly undergoing prosecution by accidenty-wenty who doesn’t really smirk horribly and behave so’s to cause you’all to barf.”
Was that MOM’s try at a trick question about adding “facts” when you speculate. If it was the PJ didn’t fall for it !
These potential jurors are no dummies. This ain’t the CTH.
@SG2
You got that right, but Omara won’t.
Breaking news: Defense has gone from
-We will certainly have an SYG immunity hearing where Zimmerman will be clear
to
-Hey man, they ain’t got video so Zimmerman should be cleared
Amazing that all this stuff about ‘speculation’ is rolling forth from the lips of someone who pimped speculation non-stop in the media for like, a year.
BTW, is it just me, or does O’Mara look like he just choked down a turd?
And “imaginary doubt” when he put all those lies out there. No, he doesn’t look like he just choked down a turd. He just looks like a turd.
How dare he put out lies like that homeless beating tape and then talk about “imaginary.”
Am reaching for Windex and Lysol now for my screen …. LOL.
Yes he did. Let the chickens of retribution come home to roost. Yes, he looks like he choked down a turd. Can I send you the link to my flickr so you can see my student artwork?
Absolutely, we need to exchange email anyway, for the supplies.
To the folks who will be receiving supplies: We will ship them out late next week, so please be a bit patient.
I am at gmail, under my full name, RachelLeatherman.
He sux lemons a lot.
Can’t put my finger on it but,
-he looks angry (at least he did in the beginning)
-he does not have a great stage presence at the moment.
He can’t believe he put his own hands on defendant (in gesture recommended by consultant), longs to go wash hands.
Do folks like that ever look in the mirror and say to themselves, “Wow. It’s amazing how fucking hypocritical I really am…”
Mom can’t even be bothered to use a chart to identify them. He certainly has a different style. I prefer Bdlr’s.
noticed that.
Could we just move on, now that MOM has redefined the word ‘defendant’, which GZ undeniably is, to ‘citizen accused’?
It’s pathetic that he can’t be bothered to keep an adequate record of the jurors by number. This mode of questioning is difficult to follow; how can the court keep accurate transcriptions?
When I was a young chemist & engineering graduate, I was talking to a production superintendent in Williston Basin ND. He noticed I was not taking any notes and questioned me on it. Told him I would remember and write it all down when I got to the car. This superintendent was 60+ years old and told me “son, I am much older than you but I learned early in my career that a Big Chief Pad and a dull number 2 pencil beats out a Sharp Mind.” Never forgot that advice and have taken detailed notes ever since. Maybe Omara should have had an older attorney tell him the same thing when he was beginning his law career. Just a thought.
o’mara stated when he brought west on that west is who he looked up to and who he would call if he were in trouble. that should tell us plenty.
that was one of the joys of watcing BDLR – his ability to quickly associate a juror number with a face and make few errors was impressive. yes, he had a cheat sheet and made a few boo-boos, but ultimately, he was good. o’mara appears more like ‘the distracted professor’ at one of those college classes where you have 200 students and the prof never gets your name.
Why did I want to hear him? I’m already want to shove pen in my eardrums.
same here
My bias secondary to reviewing the evidence and the behavior of the Zimmerman team is insurmountable
I agree. I may have to turn it off & read the comments. My ears will be bleeding if I listen too long.
Preserve the health of your eardrums, disappointed, so you will be able to hear “we find the defendant GUILTY.”
I think O’Mara may walk himself into a wasps nest here
These jurors seem too smart for the game he is trying to play
and theses people have been in countries where the treatment of his client by SPD would be considered the royal treatment
Yup.
O’Mara is trying to imitate Bernie. He is not doing a very good job so far.
Of course not. He simply lacks real charm.
rayvenwolf, Yes! Major charm deficit with MOM. He just doesn’t have it.
Its overly polished and after listening to him for awhile you realize very quickly he’s talking out of the side of his mouth. Now in the case of fogen right out of the gate he comes off as unlikeable. Even without knowing his history listening to the interviews with Serino and whats her face its clear he’s not someone you really want to be around.
Not one bit. Huge bags under Omaras’ eyes are horribly distracting.
Ooops there goes that scowl, he just made looking at Judge Deborah.
Countdown begins before starts with the mean mug face.
“If i asked you today, what would it be?” Innocent or guilty…his way of teaching the presumption of innocence or another way of saying, “All those who think GZ is not guilty raise your hand.”
yup
gagggg
Yes he is human.
That is why we have the Eighth Amendment and in fact the Fifth.
He is human; he is what we all have to contend with; he is part of the “human factor” and he is an example of one of the worst issues we, as his co-humans, must deal with every single day. Some of us die from it. Trayvon Martin did.
I don’t know, Malisha. I know you’re right, at an anatomical level, that Fogen is technically “human.” As a psychopath, though, lacking the critical elements that make us truly human–empathy, remorse, guilt, regret, compassion for others, adhering to the laws that protect us all–I see him as a faux human being. He looks like one (sorta), speaks and walks like one, but he is hardwired as a machine inside with nothing there even remotely human.
So, what you are saying is technically correct, but he doesn’t have human components inside—and he strikes me more as a pod from “Invasion of the Body Snatchers.” Just an empty husk that looks kind of human. I’m just not willing to grant him status as my co-human, personally. Any “human” who could kill a child in cold blood and feel nothing is in some other category of life form, IMO.
Abbyj- agree 100%!
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
>^..^< Let the Defense Disaster begin!
Just tuning in. HLN said something about a juror having a letter that his wife and child are afraid if he serves on the jury. Do you know what’s up with that?
Breaking News: George would get fairer trial in some other countries
@Tzar. I say hold it in Afghanistan. 🙂
@tzar — you missed your calling in the world of journalism my friend 🙂 would rather read you than stutzman any day!
Hey, Fauxy.
You feeling better?
Hope so.
@fred
yes sir, getting better, moving about with more ease, every day. truck is fixable for slightly less than a replacement, so i’m going for it. you’ll have my secretarial experience at your disposal throughout the trial – just let me know what you need 🙂
I’m so sick of O’Mara and his issues with words… the DEFENDANT is charged with MURDER OF A CHILD! Deal with it! OMG I can not stand O’Mara!
You and me both.
You and me, three, chil1224. Soon, O’Mara will ask the court to refer to Fogen as “savior,” not “defendant.”
@chi1224, Neither can I! This person is NOT likeable at all. IMO, he is out of his league here. Only a divorce attorney would fight this dirty for his client. When this is over, he should be brought before the Florida bar and be disbarred.
I agree
This link works too.
http://www.wftv.com/s/zimmerman-livestream/
Does MOM want the word Defendant banned now? Or is this his way of getting his lecture in about his self-defense claim?
I know! What is next he wants the word MURDER banned?!
Yes. He confessed to killing a kid. He was seen with the gun in his hand. I cant wait to hear the various footage of gz saying “I shot him.”
Breaking News: George is touchable
Breaking News: George is also not a “defendant” (just a guy who erroneously wandered into court)
I was thinking the same. How ridiculous. Obviously something happened where he is charged with a crime. He is being stupid.
“he is so young”, he got lost
he barely knew the three streets on his watch
What get’s me is that he gave the NEN operator 111 Retreatview circle the clubhouse where he was, and then in less than 5mins, on the very same street all of a sudden he doesn’t know what street he is own and needed to look for a street sign and address.
At best he made a u-turn and got lost? phhhtttt….
I found one with sound:
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/watch-live-george-zimmerman-trial-jury-selection-9/
Any lip readers in the house?
O’Mara is nervous.
I noticed odd hand movements during an exchange with one of my favorite PJs. For whatever reason I never noticed his bombastic gold rings before. 😉 And yes, in the beginning I had that impression too.
Attorney Sheaffer on Wftv, a recommendation by fauxy, seems to highly respect the guy. But I rarely get his comment during bench encounters. Hard to simply stop and start it, without the renewing the site, at least I seem to need to do that, and till you are beyond the initial advertisements they usually have finished.
In any case, I would easily manage to slip in as a stealth juror, it’s so enormously easy to realize what he wants to hear.
I am also wondering if some are still in there since prosecution did not get their challenge for cause trough. And if his concentration was more on the witnesses he is considering.
I think it is Shaeffer, I misspelled above.
Breaking News: O’Mara once had a mother, he may after all be of human origin…maybe.
LOL@Tzar.
Apparently, they are starting late, no doubt due to the difficulty of 40 people getting through security, checked-in, and ready to enter the courtroom and take their assigned seats by 9 am.
HEy professor
you may want to include the nbc link your posts
it is high def and seems to never go down
questions for the day:
1. Why is Shellie sitting so far from her in laws?
2. Do you think Mother Zimmerman was the last face to be revealed because she is the most ethnic looking of the clan and therefore has an appearance likely to spurn donations from the klan? or was she the most embarrassed of her son’s actions?
What is the link?
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbcnews.com/52117880/
Thank you.
This is a much better link.
I edited the post inserting this link.
NBC is a good feed for me always too and the sound is really loud and clear.
NBC has consistently provided best sound for me. Click Orlando also better
Same here… let’s hope it continues throughout the trial.
I don’t believe she is embarrassed by HIS actions; she is embarrassed that the State has taken away control of the situation and she is helpless to “correct” that. She reminds me of a hundred court clerks I have met; we call the “no no NO!” clerks. All they care about is exercising POWER.
I have lawyer friends in NY and they often talk about these clerks
Your insight is always so accurate. I enjoy learning from you
Am I the only one with no audio?
I do not have audio either.
This one is working:
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbcnews.com/52117880/
This link has been working very well for me.
http://www.wftv.com/s/zimmerman-livestream/
Good morning, everyone!
Good morning SG2!
Good morning, SouthernGirl2! Great to see you.
Hi Abbyj! Nice to see you too!
E-73 (#13 in the box) should be dismissed for cause. She said she cannot be fair and impartial because a member of her family was murdered.
In a case like this, would just about any juror who had a family member murdered be dismissed for cause even if they said that they could be impartial?
On two occasions when I have been a PJ, I said that I could be impartial when questioned during voir dire. But, a third time was near the anniversary of the killing and I just said that I was too emotional, then, and didn’t think I could be impartial. I’ve only been a PJ for criminal cases that involve gun violence and have never been chosen. By the same token, I’ve been told that neither side likes to seat engineers.
Depends on the issues in the case. Engineers are great for some cases, not so good for others.
From the point of view of the lawyers trying the case and knowing that they are attempting to sell their theory of the case to the jurors, which may or may not be what actually happened.
Professor, your comment about neither side liking to seat engineers makes me think of Gerry Spence’s famous rule: never seat a banker. He wrote that bankers–rightly or wrongly–see the world more from a perspective of privilege and belong to “clusters” that don’t take into account the plight of the underprivileged, so he would never allow them to be seated. As for both sides wanting to exclude engineers, I’d be interested to know your thoughts as to why engineers tend to be poor jurors. I mean, I have my own theory, but I’d be very interested in hearing yours. Thank you.
Justice for Trayvon Martin is justice for George Zimmerman.
…and justice for all.
Hear hear.
Agreed!
fünf
Yay, I actually get to watch this for a while this morning – 4 hours!!!
I’m jealous, I work every morning except Sunday
Vier
Can’t help but think Fogen’s family must have been flabbergasted by BDLR’s rapport-builder yesterday as jurors were being unofficially culled. Fogen and fam should be even more discouraged today when MOM and/or West manage to alienate and bore.
LOL This is one time I won’t mind being bored to tears by West. Because I know they will too.
And not just bored, but put off and offended.
Yeah. Masterful how he got them all to admit that individuals shouldnt take the law into their own hands. I also liked how he planted the seeds about circumstantial evidence.
He is good, he is damned good!
Exactly, O’maras’ lack of social graces complied with his narcissist overbearing demeanor surly will make most if not all jurors uncomfortable and intimidated. All the while asking intrusive questions not going to be accepted well.
Won’t be long before jurors will see him for deceiving liar he is and all he presents is twisted.
ic2, Yes, O’M’s “lack of social graces with his narcissistic overbearing demeanor.”will alienated the jurors terribly. He has a haughtiness about him, a condescension that exudes from him, and the jury members will not respond well to him emotionally. When the defense attorney can’t relate to the jury, as MOM here, there’s little chance of them believe On the other hand, BDLR was so able in connecting with the jury yesterday. They liked him and the way he connected with them.
Zwei!
Tchitiri.
Shalosh … ar-BAH! (and DANCE!) 😀
Nicht “zwei”, Whonoze, aber “dritte” oder “drei”.
Dreck! 😀
dos
Uno?