Wednesday, June 19, 2013
Good morning:
Trained Observer posted the following comment yesterday at 6:28 pm. I have decided to use it as a scorecard for the next round of voir dire.
I recommend we use it as a starting point for our discussions during the day about the various prospective jurors. Feel free to agree or disagree with her recommendations. By actively involving yourselves in the process of selecting and exercising challenges while witnessing the lawyers doing the same thing, you will be participating in a unique learning experience.
I do not believe this has ever been done before, so celebrate and learn.
The selection process is described below the scorecard.
My recommendations for next round, hoping hardship rids line-up of some “iffy” candidates, and strikes can be saved for a final shaping after defense squanders its share. (Admittedly, there’s so very much we don’t know about these PJs.)
B-12: Middle-aged white female; works late shift. Likes CSI, says she’d heard Fogen followed Trayvon. KEEP FOR NOW
B-29: Hispanic female nurse on an Alzheimer ward with 7 kidsl lived in windy Chicago at time of shooting. WEED OUT ON HARDSHIP
B-76: White middle-aged female who says Fogen had an “altercation with the young man. There was a struggle and the gun went off.” TRY TO WEED OUT
B-7: Middle-aged white male; NPR listener. Recalls when Florida implemented “stand your ground” and debate over whether needed.KEEP
B-35: Middle-aged black male owning a vending biz. Critical of Sharpton & Jackson; says this case not racial. KEEP
B-37: Middle-aged white female who works for a chiropractor and has a ton of of pets. Described protests in Sanford as “rioting.” STRIKE-OLA
B-51: Retired white female from Oviedo with a dog and 20-year-old cat. Knows a good deal about the case, but said “I’m not rigid in my thinking.” KEEP
B-86: Middle-aged white female working at middle school. Says if Trayvon had not been “expelled” from school in Miami — she oughta know the diff between expelled and suspended — “this could have been prevented.” DUH, WEED OUT
E-6: A young white female and mother who used to work in financial services. Used case as teaching moment for her kids, warning them to not go out late. KEEP
E-40: White female in 60s living in Iowa at shooting; heard about on national news and recalls shooting in a gated community and a teen killed. KEEP
E-54: Middle-aged white male with teenage stepson who wears hoodies. Saw photos of Fogen’s head and face with boo-boos. KEEP
E-73: Middle-aged white female from Sanford’s artsy community, raising late brother’s 15- and 18-year-olds. Says media interjected race in case. KEEP FOR NOW
M-75: Young AA female says many friends have opinions on case, but claims she doesn’t.KEEP
B-61: Young white female; remembers “after the protesters, it seemed to turn more into a racial issue…I don’t think it’s a racial issue.” KEEP
B-72: Young male doing maintenance at a school and competes in arm wrestling. Avoids news because he does not want to be “brainwashed.” TRY TO WEED OUT
E-22: Middle-aged AA female; says after shooting Sanford police should have booked Fogen and asked more questions. KEEP
E-13: Young white female collegiate who works two jobs; Heard shooting was a “racial thing.” KEEP FOR NOW.
E-28: Middle-aged white female nurse; claims she knows little about case and has no opinion about Fogen’s guilt. KEEP
K-80: Middle-aged white female with kids who has not followed case; Cconsiders “racial undertones” in case “disturbing.” WEED OUT ON HARDSHIP
K-95: Middle-aged woman who’s a full-time student and “IT geek” with two kids; Critical of protests calling for Fogen’s arrest. TRY TO WEED OUT
P-67: Native Mexican wants to serve on the jury, describing civic duty. “Some people think it is a racist thing,” he said of the shooting. A KEEPER
G-14: Middle-aged white female who recalls a “lot of anger, a lot of people upset” that Fogen was not arrested immediately. KEEP
G-29: Young black female has lived in Seminole County for eight months. Cites racial tension build-up, but claims she “stayed away from it.” KEEP
G-47: Young white male assistant restaurant manager says Fogen appears to be “stuck in the worst situation” possible. KEEP FOR NOW
?-63: Young, unemployed apparently mixed race male. Knows a little about case but pans stereotyping and says people sometimes interject race into cases . KEEP FOR NOW
G-66: Retired white female who cares for toddler grandson and moved to Central Florida in 2011. Saw photos of Fogen injuries and, “I felt sorry for him.” STRIKERAMA
G-81: Tall black male lives less than a half mile from shooting. Cites Sanford’s racial divide, but says media has misportrayed the city. KEEP
H-6: Young white male who heard call Fogen made to cops before shooting. “He sounded like he was concerned for his neighborhood.” TRY TO WEED OUT
H-7: Red-haired 50s male in a biz suit citing a “big brouhaha in Sanford,” describesd protesters as “a nuisance” and says “I still don’t know why it became a high profile case.” STRIKOLA
H-18: A dark-skinned looker in his 20s with accent who’s a mechanic, owns his shop with a partner and moved here from Kuwait. Avoids discussing certain topics. “When it’s politics, religion or race, I just don’t get involved.” KEEP
H-29: White-haired male calls national civil rights leaders who led protests in Sanford “a little circus come to town.” Says “negative for the city,” … “That honestly turned me off.” TRY TO WEED OUT
H-35: Young female who said she knows little about case. She “liked” a photo of Trayvon on Facebook. Needs to move by and of June, claiming hardship. WEED OUT ON HARDSHIP
H-81: Middle aged male (a lawyer? What kind of lawyer? Does he sit around all day looking at real estate contracts … or does he do trial work?) describes shooting as an “incident” between Fogen and Trayvon; calls shooting a “very tragic situation.” He has two pending civil cases before Nelson. KEEP FOR NOW
H-69: Preggers PJ who saw news about case on TV at work. Mentions several times that she recalled seeing pictures of Trayvon as “a young child.” WEED OUT ON HARDSHIP
H-86: Young white female says she knows almost nothing about the case. Says she keeps up with current events, but “certain cases and things I don’t follow.” KEEP
I-5: Middle-aged AA male says he heard self-defense was involved with case, at one point referring to Fogen as “gentleman that was defending himself.” KEEP
I-19: Young white female says she hasn’t followed case and knows only basics: “I don’t watch the news, I don’t read the news,” she, who lies or is really stupid, said. STRIKE
I-24: Older white woman who followed case at first, but then “just kinda tuned out.” Says “a young man lost his life and another man is fighting for his life.” STRIKE
I-33: Older white male, saying “more I heard, the less I wanted to hear.” Heard a 911 call involved in case, and “some controversy as to who was doing the screaming” heard. TRY TO WEED OUT
I-44: Dad of 3 says he’s skeptical of media and its “negativity.” Calls himself a “sports nut.” KEEP FOR NOW
I have previously described the process of group voir dire as follows:
When she gets to 40, she will gather that group together seating the PJs in the jury box, and subsequently the benches, in the order in which they were called and likely instruct them to raise their hands indicating an affirmative answer as she asks a series of questions, pausing to record each PJ’s affirmative answer to each question.
For example, she might ask for a show of hands by each PJ who has been a victim of a crime and write down each PJs number who raises their hand.
After she completes her list of questions, the lawyers, starting with Bernie de la Rionda, will question the first PJ on the list (B12) regarding each question she answered affirmatively. After both lawyers have finished with B12, they will pass or challenge her for cause. If she is excused, she will be replaced in the box by PJ B51 (she is 7th in the order).
This process will be repeated with B51 until she is passed or excused for cause. If she is excused, her seat will be taken by B55. If she is passed, the lawyers will question B29, the PJ in the second seat in the box.
This procedure likely will be followed until 30 PJs have been passed for cause.
Then the lawyers will exercise their peremptory challenges, which is usually done secretly with the lawyers passing back and forth a sheet of paper alternately listing a PJ number until one or both sides exhaust their allotment of peremptory challenges.
If one side accepts the jury of 6 before exhausting their peremptories, they retain the right to use a peremptory challenge to excuse the PJ who replaces a member of the jury struck by their opponent after they accepted the jury.
Here’s the link to the livestream coverage.
http://wildabouttrial.com/george-zimmerman-live-stream.html
Court resumes at 9 am EDT.
See you in court.
(H/T to Trained Observer for the excellent list)
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Frederick Leatherman Law Blog 
New post up:
Featuring Feauxmccoy’s Juror Spreadsheet Zimmerman Trial
Professor , you are correct that is better left to closing arguments. I was jumping ahead . Thank you !
I wish BDLR would have asked would taking a life make you feel terrible or would you think it was GODS plan
Best left unsaid until closing arguments.
Thanks prof and thanks everyone for another day – another day closer to the truth being established in a court of law.
New post up:
Zimmerman: Day 8 Liveblogging Jury Selection Completed
oh, my worries have been eased, i have a ‘celestial’ nose. 😛
Yeah, I’ll bet you’re a cutie too.
The soul wins out.
The Z family hit the jackpot with this case. Fogen has collected thousands of dollars, Papa and Mama Z started their own begging website and no telling how much they collected. Papa Z’s book sales.
On another note, I was scanning the net for stories on day and on one site, the posters was talking about find was to get money to Fogen directly without using paypal or having to inform the court.
I wonder how much money that fool has collected and if MOM is aware of it and if MOM received any of it.
No wonder Zimmerman is wearing a different expensive suits and ties each day. It’s obvious that Shellie is left out of the GZ’s shopping spree. When this is all over, she has to face a felony charge. Well, when you fool with trash it will get in your eye, sometimes it will blind you.
His suits and ties, are from the house of Burberry. to think he is dressing in threads like that and, buying them with money donated for is defense. he’s dressing better than some of his benefactors. another saying goes like this, if you lay down with dogs, you’ll get up with fleas.
Why is it that most biggots are always trashy looking, dumb, and a few stones shy of crazy and have the never to be prejudiced against others?
That Z family is bunch of dumb bigots that think they are superior to others!!!!!
Papa Z has the look of an alcholic. He is too wrinkly for his age. Mama Z just looks mean and nasty. Those poor kids did not stand a chance with those parents. It saddens my heart that parents teach their kids to elite haters.
excuse the typos
Oh, honey, it’s sad, but it seems so true.
We ask ourselves whenever something evil happens, and watching these folks is a lesson and an answer. 😦
You’ve got to be carefully taught.
You’ve got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You’ve got to be taught
From year to year,
It’s got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You’ve got to be carefully taught.
You’ve got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff’rent shade,
You’ve got to be carefully taught.
You’ve got to be taught before it’s too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You’ve got to be carefully taught!
– from the 1949 Rodgers and Hammerstein musical South Pacific
My guess is that, that was Grace sitting with the parents and, I with you on Sr’s wrinkles and, I have read some where before, that he does indeed have a problem with alcohol. this I imagine is where the two sons, got their love of this drank from.
I wonder if Grace has a taste for the drank as well.
MOM = snowball in hell
http://www.sao4th.com/2013/06/06/asa-bernie-de-la-rionda-awarded-best-of-the-best-honor/
Not that I put much stock in what any of these agencies says about their own excellence, but check out the quotes:
OVER 250 JURY TRIALS
Um … yeah, … go ahead, show us what you can do.
MOM to be awarded “least of the least” at separate ceremony in sewer underneath Capital building…
All kidding aside MOM is no fool; he just hasn’t got much of Anythjng to work with. He made a bid for turning this case around using social media to gin up mass support for his client; enough support to poison the jury pool completely IMO but it just didnt work. Remember the Facebook page? Recall GZs own website? And jeralyn Merritt seems to have fizzled out quite a bit as well… People kept getting banned for perfectly reasonable posts over there. You any build a grassroots movement on negativity and denial alone.
You can’t build – typo
That’s what I was thinking watching the faces at the defense table, as the p jurors were having a jolly good time with Bernie.
Part of O’Mara’s problem is that the group he is depending on to give him his acquittal, is for a large part also more inclined to side with LE, or in this case the prosecution.
The defense’s case depends on hard core racists. That kind of racism is not rational and wants to express it self. There are a couple left in the pool. But less than the number of strikes Bernie has available.
Well, well done, Sir.
I’m learning a lot about how to learn about people’s bias from him.
I got my BA in communications and studied acting, and I have to say that I’m impressed.
(Of course, the humanity and caring bar compared to the Defense is low, low, low.
Did anyone see Fogen’s family look at or talk to Shellie?
I’m telling you! That family is either very very odd, or they are locked into a mutual distrust cycle of some sort. George sits with his back to all of them and never ever makes eye contact. And they don’t look at one another and RZ jr doesn’t speak or look at Shellie either.
I’m guessing they are ALL under secret indictment over money laundering as each suspect the other of being an informant yet all must attend the trial to keep up the facade that they are NOT the informant!
LMAO they got roasted for that because they’re fucking stupid
Everyone knew about his PayPal or Peter Pan
When he claimed he was broke and then left in a new model BMW…
They checked his jailhouse phone calls and bank records
Was not hard from there LOL
Yes, and Robbie The Racist is involved
I hope the cops indict him for “structuring, and conspiracy to commit perjury”
Hold up Fogen bought a new Beemer?
yeah, that the hell was up with that?
did Shelly turn state?
No one knows for sure. Were she to do so it’s doubtful she would be attending the trial every day but anything is possible. It appears perhaps the strategy is one the defense has out in place to work like this : the family is all there and friend Frank Taaffe is there in support of the defendant but he doesn’t acknowledge them ever lest a juror who doesn’t like one of them somehow transfer a bad association from an obviosly guilty perjurer like Shellie or a money launderer like the sister or a racist like the parents or a drunk driver like FT somehow over to Boy Scout GZ.
I’m making wild speculation about informers simply beause they act so strange and the fact that many things are possible…
I am willing to bet they think Shellie rolled and I think she did too
According to Fogen Sr…per his recent book… After the bond hearing (where the Fogen family testified via telephone) Senior states that he took his daughter (not Shellie) outside and asked her whether Fogen had the money to pay his bail, and the sister stated that he did. Why did he not ask Shellie…hmmm…Maybe because he does not trust Shellie or her husband? This family seems to play a cat and mouse game with the truth.
I know one thing, Popazidiot seem to be very uncomfortable sitting next to her.
Her mother stepped out, leaving an empty space between Popazidit and She-lie, and she acted as though he was just another spectator seated in the gallery.
Now that we have seen GZs sister up close, does anyone care to speculate about her being spotted or not in the ATM video that may or may not end with Osterman?
Going to have to watch that video again. It has been a while since I last watched it. Interesting though.
yup
If there is 90% chance that a certain group of people will have tried marijuana before their 18th birthday, still that doesn’t mean that an ONE person in that group has a 90% chance of doing that; his chance is still 50/50: either he will or not. It depends on him, not on what 90% of his group has done. It’s a hard thing for many people to understand. If they don’t study statistics.
???
rules of statistics
if only 2 outcomes possible (smoke or not smoke) (granted all other factors equal: availability and such)
then probability of each outcome is always 50/50 regardless of what happened before
I know; it’s counterintuitive. But it means the same as saying that “individuals do not follow demographics” or “the success rate percentages for this form of cancer won’t tell you whether or not YOU will go into remission.” You can fall into the percentage that DOES the more probable thing or you can fall into the percentage that does NOT do the more probable thing, depending on YOU as an individual or, in the other example, depending on YOUR BODY and YOUR CANCER and YOUR individual circumstances.
A Hispanic man who carries a sidearm may fall into a demographic that Fogen might assume would insist upon his absolute innocence and his right to punish anyone who thought he had committed a crime. That Hispanic man is not a statistic, though. He has a brain. Perhaps he carries a fire-arm for a completely different reason from the reason Fogen carried. Perhaps that man has disdain for people who go running around their neighborhoods tilting at windmills. Perhaps that man believes that a guy like Fogen brings bad repute to honest, upstanding Hispanic Americans who pay their bills and believe in equality and freedom. Fogen can play his own fantasies out and yet be 100% wrong about the motivations, intentions, morals and beliefs of someone he tries to fit into a stereotype — hey wait a minute, that’s what he did with Trayvon Benjamin Martin, come to think of it.
@Tzar & Malisha – your interpretation of statistics is just off. Saying that there are only two outcomes to an event doesn’t mean that the chance of each outcome is 50%.
In the case of a fair coin toss, the chance of getting heads on a given toss is 50%. However, if you toss a “rigged” coin then there are still only two possible outcomes – heads or tails – but, one of those outcomes is more likely to occur than the other since the coin has been weighted to not be “fair”. What you might end up with is a coin such that in 100 tosses, 60 tosses result in heads and 40 tosses result in tails.
It is true that events like coin tosses are independent. If you toss a fair coin 100 times and get 100 heads, the chance that you will get a head on the 101st toss is still 50%.
In terms of saying that 90% of a certain group of people use marijuana before their 18th birthday has the following implications – 1.) If I looked at a group of 100 people in that cohort, I would predict that 90 of them have smoked. 2.) If I know that a given individual belongs to that cohort, I would be able to predict, without any other knowledge of the person, that he/she smoked, however, I would be wrong about 10% of the time on that prediction.
I believe BDLR did a good job indoctrinating the jury today. Great foundation for his opening statement.
Plus, he appears to have established rapport and trust.
He speaks very passionately.
i think he did all of that PLUS making almost every juror appear worthy of a peremptory challenge to the defense. i think that, too, was part of his strategy. the defense is not going to know where to start. i only hope that BDLR got all the info he needed to make necessary cuts.
Yes, I was impressed by his sense of humor. I only served on a jury once, but I agree that it all comes down to those first few minutes when you hear the opening statements and decide which side you trust. Even subconsciously, that’s how it works.
Get ready to hear MOM and West go on and on about how Fogen was attacked by a “wannabe” thug rather than presenting a case.
I wonder how much money they are paying that jury consultant and how long he is going to stick around?
I would imagine the jury consultant will be gone after the jury is picked. Then it will just be dumb and dumber left to try the case.
concerned~ dumb and dumber will also be poor and poorer!
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I don’t necessarily think P67 would be bad for the State because he has kids. He’s trying now to protect them. Listen to him speak about the little one wanting to sleep with them b/c she’s scared. Little kids ask to sleep with the parents when they’re scared all the time. It makes them feel safe. I think he would sympathize for a child being chased down & killed. Just saying…
I think it’s funny that the Outhousers believe even one Black on the jury will “not be objective” [“objective about” murder?] but Hispanics on the jury will automatically side with their guy — HA HA HA!!
That would be a good juror question: “Can you be objective about murder, or are you so biased that you’re against it?”
Or: “Can you be objective about going along with murder so long as you’d probably want to get off if YOU committed it?”
Or, the really honest one: “Can you be pro-murder just as much as anti-murder so long as we slander the victim a lot?”
It’s the old “he had it come’n” defense.
As anyone who has ever lived in a sundown town knows, Trayvon had a lot of nerve walkin’ around after dark in a fancy-ass gated community like R@TL. Why, he shouldn’t even have been there at high noon if you ask Fogen pal Frank Taaffe.
My take: If one Black, one Hispanic, and four Whites (two females), end up on this jury, the whites females will be at the forefront of calling for Fogen’s head to stick in a Cuisinart.
I have always thought that mothers, particularly mothers of teenage boys or former teenage boys, would be the most likely to vote for conviction. Next comes fathers, then teachers and others with much experience with this age group.
I went to the outhouse and they are commenting on how black Gladys is…perhaps having second thoughts of supporting the zimz.
LMAO why would hispanics side with him?
For all of his life, except this trial, he has disregarded his latino heritage and claimed to be “white”
He is racist against Mexicans
If I were looking on the outside, Fogen looks like he is racist against latinos and ashamed of being latino himself
Anyways, I am sure Hispanics and blacks can be objective
On a more hilarious note, how are the most unobjective website ever in the history of the internet, the Fogen Tinfoil Hat Rugrats or whatever the fuck they call themselves, supposed to be able to tell what is objective? LOL
Being objective means being free from racism as well
They claim to be objective by making racist remarks about black people and generalizing them?
So blacks are not smart enough to see this is bloodly murder?
I have said it before but I will have a good laugh if the jury is objective and impartial, and has blacks, latinos, and women, which are all groups Fogen disparages and attacks with his family and gang
OperaCarla- LOL. Those Treestumpers swing this way and that.
O’Mara, West and Hirschorn may want Hispanics on the jury, but I believe that’s a racist and extremely shallow line of thinking that is not going to work out.
I’ll be blunt: It’s stupid.
Frederick~ Amazingly, individual people DON’T think in demographics.
________________________________
Maybe it has something to do with the line up?
I can’t imagine this guy would be good for the defense.
One might be inclined to think that the Fog-diot is only Hispanic when it is to his benefit! Other wise why did he claim to be “White” for the bulk of his life? When the Hispanic members of the jury (if there is any) see even the medical report from his Dr. assistant, where he considered him self as non Hispanic, he will probably alienate those folks more than he thinks, well it would if he thinks….
I think Hispanics — and that’s a broad term — would be less forgiving of Fogen that others.
Well you got to remember that at the end of the day, they work for Fogen and Fogen and his family and his gang members, judge people on race
They do not see individuality, they see race
The entire defense team as well as the defendant are stupid.
later folks!! Take care, esp SG today!
I am intuitively pleased with the events of today. And see the need for a break from this for the defense, they need to arrange all those little 3 1/2 x 5 recipie cards Hirshorn shuffles around in piles with good old fashioned elastic bands.
And they need to recoup and tweek (or find) a plan for tomorrow.
Have a good one! Bernie worked it today. O’Mara and West looked totally confused and then O’Mara ran to the judge for a conference. Ha!
Okay, have a great evening and see you again!
When did Fogen and MamaZ go on a rant against Mexicans?
just fogen, 2005 Myspace. Just google, you’ll see it and articles quoting MOM confirming that it is the client’s own.
I think his rant against Mexicans is very relevant to the idea that he was just concerned about his neighborhood. Here’s a guy who says that he doesn’t want to have to avoid running over people! (Oh, was it just Mexicans he would have chosen to run over? Oh well…)
I can provide Fogen a nice tour of Los Angeles, Mexifornia.
I didn’t think of it that way but you are so right… we need him to stay…
Dang it… Another Fire closer to me then the one in Black Forest… sheesh… somebody has to be setting these fires. Fires and a tornado what’s next for Colorado??? *sigh* http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/19/chair-rock-fire-jefferson_n_3468036.html
Oh no, be safe and cautious.
Just stay safe. My friend was in Colorado Springs last week. Flew up from Dallas and could not believe there was still snow on the mountains. Commented on the fires that were going on up there and was glad to leave to come home. Pray for rain or snow.
Be ready to bug out. Take what’s important and can’t be replaced and most of all be safe.
Oh dear, smokeegyrl. Very sorry to hear this.
P67 is the 21st PJ.
O’Mara can’t risk having a Mexican American on the jury and the defendant certainly doesn’t want him on the jury because he hates Mexicans.
This may be an elaborate head fake to sucker Bernie into using a peremptory challenge so that O’Mara doesn’t have to.
I think so too, I hope Bernie is on to him
P-67 would be a poor juror, but not necessarily biased toward either side. He would be nervous and distracted. In deliberations, he would be a follower, to hide in the crowd and get out of there as fast as possible.
I’m sure Hirschhorn thinks GZ’s anti-Mexican posts will never see the light of day in court, and is assuming that a patriotic male Hispanic immigrant will identify with Good Citizen George. Not very sophisticated thinking, if you ask me, but I don’t make the big bucks as a jury consultant.
LOL if that is Omara’s plan, and there are hispanics, I’d straight up bring up in court “if George is proud to be hispanic, and feels hispanics are his people, why has he for his whole life, except this trial, told everyone he was a white man? So according to his actions, it seems he is ashamed of being latino” and then i would bring up his Myspace
Thing of it is, a patriotic Hispanic male immigrant works too damn much to appreciate another person, who is essentially unemployed but somehow maintaining a condo, a couple of vehicles, cells phone plans, a loaded gun, a claim that he is Afro-peruvian, a claim that he ‘mentors black kids,’ plus extra time to snoop about the neighborhood…but at trial endear a true Hispanic working person with the ‘hey, I am just like you.’
Because he isn’t.
I couldn’t understand all he said but apparently his wife saw something about the trial either on the internet or tv and discussed it with him. That alone should get him dismissed.
He said something about hoping he was not out on the street. I’ll see if it is on u-tube and maybe I’ll pick up a bit more the second time around. 😉
This was in response to his concern that his employer wouldn’t pay him if the trial went on longer than 4 weeks.
I hope JN just told them to let this man go.
Me too. He sound really scared and desperate. MOM know damn well that he does not want him to sit in on this case. To downgrade the mans concern is disgusting!
Court is in recess until 9 am tomorrow morning.
They should let the poor man go home. He obviously cannot afford to be away from his job for this length of time.
Get that guy off the jury. I swear MOM’s new name is Lionel Hutz.
I can’t imagine why O’Mara wants to keep this guy on the jury when he so desperately doesn’t want to be there.
The guy will hate him.
Yes, did you just see Bernie’s quiet reaction as he sat down– looked concerned.
Could MOM be doing this for the cameras, knowing full well he should look favorably towards Mexicans given the anti-Mexican rant of his client on his (confirmed by MOM last year) Myspace page of 2005, against those very people.
Maybe playing the publicity game only, and doesn’t want him.
I think Bernie wasn’t so much concerned as disgusted with O’Mara’s effort to keep this guy.
Wouldnt Bernie be able to just say for cause
“Your Honor, this man simply does not want to be here. He’s not gonna want to do the job and will not properly do it because he does not want to do it. Because of this, he will not be objective and impartial”
I am not a lawyer but from my experience as a boss, if someone does not want to do the work, there’s no point having them there
First round P-67 seemed eager and happy to serve, now he’s hedging. I know he says its due to the media, but I believe he’s hiding something else.
They need to dismiss him. I have had a change of heart, and don’t think he will be good for the State.
Maybe his family saw something threatening about him and they’re scared? It’s some mean ass people in this world. The little kid is scared too. I don’t like it. Leave the man alone!
They saw what happened to E-7.
Having been a juror in a high profile case myself, which involved a cop as defendant, I understand fully the concerns P67 stated today. If true, they are very valid concerns.
O’Dirty did not want him on, and as much as I hate to admit this, I think he was picking up on the same “vibe” as I did, and feels there’s more to his story that he was telling. And no, I don’t think drug lords from Mexico are looking for him unless he owes them money.
I was one of the people who posted the story about juror E7. He should not have lied about having a FB account, but I believe it was wrong to publish his name, or any other juror’s name.
From what I’ve been reading, and it could all be wrong, the way the State of Florida is handling jury selection is unusual in comparison to other states dealing with similar cases.
From what I understood, the only reason jury selection proceeded in this manner is because the press/media agreed to it, although under the Sunshine Law of Florida they didn’t have to. Supposedly, in Florida, only Grand Juries remain totally anonymous. Allegedly, you never know their names.
You can understand why someone with experience in Mexico, with the corrupt police, the jail system, the executions by cartels, would be concerned, he has a different perspective from anyone else not gone through it.
ay2z~ exactly. Not to mention people who have just …disappeared. He has very good reasons for concern. He’s very brave to want to give back.
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Yes! I met someone, adult son of a landlady, who arrived back in Canada from what landlady claimed was not his fault etc, he was in Mexico and she said he was under threat (I am sure related to big drug dealing) and he was in Sing Sing (sp?) and I’m guessing he was somehow put well away from the big prisons in Texas for some reason.
I talked to him only briefly, and he said in Mexico he had come across executed people or person in the forests.
I didn’t ask, but knew he was in something big and was able to get out of prison in the US.
Bingo, ay2z!
MOM wants this guy really bad.
Seems so… “can you sit with us [nods to pj]”
If Z’s myspace comments come in, he might be worried about him.
IF, he’s Mexican as he stated in the first round, I would think O’Dirty would be glad to let him go.
IIRC during the first round, his own client seemed very uncomfortable when P-67 was being questioned.
Juror P-67 and his wife are scared for him to serve. Did they see something threatening about him? These mean ass people!
Here’s what cfnews13 posted in an article, this is a direct copy paste of the text.
Not ‘Mexican’, but others could easily say that rather than citizen or resident or P76,
6/13
P-67
M
40s-50s
Hispanic
Born in Mexico, wants on jury to “give back” to country.
Ladies and gentlemen the caring O’Mara
Well he sucks at it.
Ryan~ YIKES! LOL!
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warning, next time
I almost ruined my keyboard
Bwah ha ha ha
Just be glad it was a cartoon and not a photo of MOM.
LOL!
Heehee………too funny!
I don’t blame him on the labeling part… We are so brainwashed on racial labels… I hate labels myself..
MOM: The media is forbidden to put your name or photo into the public……tell that to the rejected juror who just filed a lawsuit against you.
Could someone have taken a photo of him and put it online?
LMAO
So what’s the number, I lost count on how many times Omara has been sued because of this case
Why do I get the feeling MOM wants this specific PJ? Maybe because he will not understand everything? I am kind of confused.
Prof said it’s not who you want to keep, it’s who you want to get rid of. Maybe MOM wants to get rid of him by forcing the state to use a perempt.
I am also confused. O’Mara seems hell-bent to inflict hardship, to keep the guy. Why?
I think O’Dirty was just biding the time so his paralegals could dig up something on this guy.
He doesn’t want him on the jury.
I believe that is Rene putting stuff out there… she needs to stop. She is a Z follower..
Rene makes me sick. She’s a wicked witch.
yup… she loves her some RZj
smokeegyrl~ too bad RZj can’t reciprocate.
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She has proven herself to be a racist to me. I lost all respect. She needs to be fired.
What a dick. Calling his concerns minor, MOM?
EXACTLY! Just like it is no big deal Fogen killed Trayvon. He feels it’s no big deal, one less thug on the streets.
Ryan~ and just AFTER a PJ had his identity thrown out for the Zidiots to devour?
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I was thinking the same thing. That PJ got outed. Face all over the screen for everyone to see. How dare MOM minimize this man’s legitimate fear for his life and family. I don’t see why he would want him on the case anyway. Fogen doesn’t like Mexicans.
I can not stand MOM! How is he going to describe the mans concerns as minor! What an idiot! It must be major or he would not be so afraid.
If the Z family and MOM continue with their charade of death threats JN should shut them down. They are trying to scare the PJs and sway public opinion.
Really!! these people are wasting money on body guards b/c no one is checking for them.
JN let MOM and Co. get away with to much.
P67 is up, the one who wanted to be questioned alone.
Is afraid of the media and labeling.
So with the Frye hearing starting at 2pm tomorrow and the defense not getting a jump on it tonight, I’m going to guess that WEST will not be asking the questions…
; – )
West screwed things up, he kept cutting the expert off, even after the judge asked him not to. He argued with the judge that the answer had become non-responsive, Judge said, we don’t know that, let him finish!
West when into an annoying long winded and unnecessarily convoluted, baseless and fact free distortion of the Frye testimony to date, as if he were lecturing at TCTH, where things don’t have to make sense. After the prosecution rebutted him, he wanted another go at it but Judgey baby shut him down fast. She swept up the folders and quickly adjourned saying she’d be back with an answer at 9 am tomorrow. You can be it will not favor West.
Hardly a wonder then that Omar uses West as a “Warm body in a suit” guy.
Side bar? What did I miss?
Agreement for early dismissal.
It was right before the gun questions. He was asking if I wore cowboy boots and a cowboy hat you would like …..cowboy, if I wore surfer shorts……sidebar.
oops sorry, I thought you might be talking about the comment right before this one. nevermind.
The jury may all exclaim “Hurrah” as Bernie says, but I bet they’ll all be going “Ugh” in a short while especially if they get West !
BDLR dropped the clothing questions real quick, I think MOM won that sidebar. Too close to profiling, I think.
Yeah … but he planted the notion.
THIS~~~> “YEAH…but he planted the notion.”
Tehehehe…
“Responsible”, “Accountable” for their actions – excellent question!
I see the entire Zimmerman clan asking themselves, how in the hell did they miss the jury sequestration gravy train all this time. Free Housing, meals, phone and computer access.
I know they could just kick themselves or Daddy Z for not telling them!
Any moment now as this trial proceeds, I expect Pops Z to stand up and shout “But that’s not how we do it in Virginia!”
CU!!! I would not be surprised in the least if he did. Their sense of entitlement is out this atmosphere.
“But that’s not how we do it in Virginia!”
He fortunately isn’t representative of the entire Commonwealth.
A group of losers!
Ah, did you catch George’s face…everyone but us gets to go home for the weekend.
George: Me neither. I’m Sad.
Wow… I thought we were going to have a “human rights” challenge here !
There appears to be a lot of gun owners, or people familiar with guns, and many who are members of NRA. They all sound like responsible gun owners, and this does not bode well for the confessed murderer.
Did y’all peep MOM trying to take a sneak peek at BDLR’s papers?
smh
YES! wonder if that’s how he passed the bar? hmmmmm
lol
Seems as though Hirschhorn was deliberately trying to shield his clients from the camera during BDLR’s review of the State’s Burden, etc.
I thought so too. For few minutes before GZ was deliberately looking to his left as BDLR read law on Murder II ( definite body language & facial expression of guilt). When Hirshhorn saw him, Hirshhorn moved forward to shield him from camera.
Okay……so it wasn’t my tired eyes. “A sign of guilt” is the same thing that came to my mind. It seemed so deliberate.
Did somebody say “rhymes with sun-PUNT”?
So much WEATHER down there in Florida!
Did he say “rhymes with snow-pile”?
did he say something about justifiable self defense?
“justifiable use of deadly force” =self defense
Bill S. thinks BDLR is doing a poor job of voir dire as he is talking too much, and not eliciting enough responses from the jurors that would reveal their attitudes. Too many yes or no questions. But it seems to me (as to many of you, it seems) that BDLR isn’t TRYING to get info, he’s trying to indoctrinate, basically setting forth key elements of the State’s case in a ‘stealth’ manner in which he can use humor AND ask everyone to agree to his defintions and framings of the issues. Interesting strategy. Maybe the State is relying on demographics or whatever they gleaned in the prelims to determine their challenges.
And not so stealth… I’d say. And I personally think he’s doing a grand job of that because he has certainly prepped the jury about the evidence they are about to hear.
This is exactly what I see as well
Bill S is a personal friend of O’Smeara….. we should be surprised at him being critical of Bernie?…. lol…. what is surprising is he has managed to keep it a secret this long….
interesting
whonoze~ I believe conducting voir dire is like teaching; there are many different styles and they can be effective for whatever goal you have in mind. Bill S. should STFU or just say, “I would do this differently.”
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Yep. You may be better able to cage the jurors by their body language in a setting where they feel comfortable and relaxed.
I may not be as smart as y’all, but I’m picking up on what Bernie’s putting down… My question is, Where was BILL when O’Haha and WEST were making a mockery of the court system?
To be fair, “doing a poor job” was my characterization of Bill’ Sheaffer’s remarks. He expresses his opinions in a very judicious, polite and respectful manner. He is a very good commentator, and unlike most of the so-called legal experts, actually maintains an effective neutrality and fairness IMHO.
agreed, whonoze. i’m enjoying his commentary, very much. it is a nice companion to this blog.
I also enjoy Scheaffer’s commentaries. I do BDLR was bouncing around just a tad too much for me as a spectator. I really did appreciate all those breaks.
16 out of 40 own or have family who own guns.
I caught 2 with a concealed but one of the 2 let her license expire.
I can’t believe they are all telling the truth. I think at least have aren’t admitting to it.
If one has a concealed and is lying they can find that out easily. Gun ownership not so much, it is not required to register here in this state.
Sorry. I was addressing the question of ownership.
i cannot imagine what they would have to gain by lying. considering the demographics, it would make them part of the ‘in’ crowd and there’s no registration law so no fear of being ‘found out’.
Not sure it means much but my father owned a gun at one point. Us siblings weren’t supposed to know we were snooping around. To this day we haven’t mentioned seeing it. FYI we were old enough to know to leave it alone, we were safe. He’s a life long democrat. So I hope gun ownership isn’t going to determine a jurors leanings.
My father was a gun enthusiast, we were raised never to point even a toy gun at another person. We knew never to touch one of his guns.
Despite the jury selection consultants 90,000 in fees, the defense has exactly the jury they didn’t want. 😆
Lonnie- I heard that Hirschorn was happy with the results. Is he as deluded as MOM?
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
He’s got 90,000 reasons to be happy with the results. That’s not self delusion that’s simply good business acumen. Having already been paid, he would not want to provoke conversation about what he might have done better. Simply state that he’s happy with the result (6 women, mothers, cat owners, egad) and scramadoodle outta there!
Hey, Hirschorn can head for the beach and lay about with pina coladas and babes. While Omar watches his career slowly circle the drain.
Lonnie~ Sounds good! I guess he WOULD be happy, even if 6 Trayvon Supporters made it on the jury; he’ still got paid! LOL!!
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Bernie would be shocked at me I think. shotguns….yes rifles….yes….pistols…..yes, single action, double action, semi automatic. CWP, Instructor for all, shoot quite frequently. Shooting since I was 11. Shooting coach at a high school and at a private range. Life member of NRA. lol.
@towerflower — similar here, just do not teach like you. my dad had me starting off with a .22 revolver when i was 5, with him right behind me of course and his hands on mine. i have been exposed to just about everything since. i have my preferences though. being a cowgirl is not a bad thing.
@towerflower
below you stated
same at our house.
I never liked real guns, but we had the same training. You didn’t point a toy cap gun at anyone at our house! I did love those and pretended to be various cowboys and cowgirls at times.
They’re all packing! Welcome to Florida!
And not one of them has been forced to kill a teen-ager?
Amazing isn’t it? I’ve never even had to pull a gun out much less aim it or fire it at another person.
West trying to snow the court with half truths and twisted reasoning, half baked ideas and other sundry sheer, over-the-edge lunacy. He’s wasting everyone’s time, everyone left in court listening to him are people capable of critical thinking, thus West is wasting his time with his poorly thought out diatribes.
If you own a theater and you want free vegetables, West is the man you put on stage!
Everybody Run,
The prospective juror’s got a gun!
(Rachael, you knew I had to.)
What?
Sorry. Julie Brown, Homecoming Queen’s got a gun.
Did MOM complin about the joviality of BDLR’s presentation? He seems a little subdued, now.
Did anyone else note that O’Mara requested the sidebar as soon as the comments posted here about BDLR’s charm and affability, and how it didn’t bode well for the defense?
Yes something happened saw West’s snicker after that little meeting and Bernie was a little off, but he’s good now.
Nef05~ LOL! I wouldn’t doubt! Let’s start sending him some MISinformation! “The defense SHOULD want the medical people on the jury. That way they can explain how undisputed that broken nose was. AND keep those karate people. THEY know how dangerous MMA blows are to the head.”
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20-40 of them.
No Doubt, Cielo62. I believe they would be very helpful in *explaining* those facts to the rest of the jury, during deliberations. 🙂
Nef05 – Now you know he’s got their paralegals digging and lurking on blogs.
just my observation… Bernie has been about BUSINESS out the gate… Although many may not agree with his methods, I believe there is a method to his madness… Today what I see is Bernie making these jurors comfortable because HE KNOWS he can be a HARD ASS… This Bernie’s calm before the STORM.. IMHO…
I agree. He had them so comfortable, they were tripping over themselves to answering questions and volunteer answers.
Sidebar: George Zimmer, he of the melodious voice and founder of Men’s Wearhouse, has been abruptly sacked. Could he be guilty of selling Fogen those ill-fitting suits?
TO~ “I guarantee it.”
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🙂 🙂 🙂
Be prepared for Mom to try to even the score.
He can try, but I don’t believe he has the genuine charm and empathy that just flows out of BDLR. You get the idea he’d be a great neighbor, the kind of guy who’d have a neighborhood cookout where you’d have a great time and everyone would feel welcome.
O’Dirty lacks any social graces as far as I’m concerned. He always looks like he could star in his own version of, “Angry White Man”.
I strongly believe the confessed murderer had a prior back injury and a broken nose, waaaay before he crossed paths with Trayvon,
He did have a documented back problem. He had a special chair at work for it.
Or a made up back problem. I have a back problem that I have been suffering from for over 10 years. Sometimes it is tough to just walk 10 feet, let alone patrol my community AND chase after someone! He has been a manipulator and liar all of his life.
If you look at the various pictures of him, especially those prior to his 2012 arrest, you can really see the difference.
@Nellie Nell
Oh Nellie, I can only imagine the problems you have as a result of back pain/injury, my heart goes out to you.
I know a few people with back injuries, and I don’t care what they take, or surgeries they have, seems like nothing ever corrects the cause, or seems to relieve the pain for any reasonable amount of time.
And they sure ain’t out applying for jobs that would require them to be running behind folks. Some days, my sister-in-law can barely get out of bed.
A manipulator, he most definitely is.
@towerflower
I read about that. I sure hope they present the documentation at trial.
And could he be concealing and carrying it now ? !
Not in a courthouse……that’s on the no no list
Whew… albeit I had presumed that just wanted a joke… not exactly conducive to fair trials and justice having jurors carrying guns. Over he we pass metal detector to access any court and I would presume the same or even more so there.
Gun questions now, should be good. All believe in 2nd Ad.
DW really didn’t like the question about whether Trayvon’s life was worth less because he was under 18, or African American. Maybe he didn’t like the jury being reminded that an adult killed a minor.
PapaZ and Gladys are some unattractive people.
All this jocularity … if not knowing better, we’d think this was a team-building event at some sort of corporate shindig. Everyone’s having a great time …. except Team Fogen. But wait! For BDLR it is a team-building exercise, and he’s deciding who’s gonna be on his team.
It’s getting results, and I think that JN designed this in co-op with both sides to cover many bases quickly during general.
Bingo! Such astute comments here.
Nice crowd, all. I could kiss you.
With every question BDLR asks the PJs he is painting te defendant as an outlier in what “normal” people engage in, it seems.
For better or worse this is good strategy on his part. The subtle message seems to be “we are okay, that guy at the defendant’s table isn’t one of us. “.
I am loving his style of questioning!
It was if BDLR was saying, “Trayvon, this line of questioning for you, my young friend”.
And Trayvon looking down watching him squirm, and choke on his on saliva.
Mom couldn’t take it one more minute. He appears to have no lips when he is angry.
How is he going to sit in front of pjs looking very obviously angry. That would be a turnoff for me.
Only pretend ones even when he’s not.
Why is Fogen avoiding eye contact with the PJs?
sure was when NW q’s asked, looked directly away at one point.
@disappointed
They were all sub-consciously telling him about everything he did wrong.
They all laughed, and said no, after being asked if they ever ran after a suspect. The thought it sounded ridiculous to them.
Expert on Channel 9 says Bernie needs to talk less listen more.
Phhhhttt….. on that ‘expert’
Not now. Now, Bernie has taken control and he’s telling folks how this will play out. It’s necessary. He’s watching HOW they’re listening because after all, during the trial, it will be the LISTENERS who will determine what happens. He’s right on.
good point
“I haven’t talked to H35 yet…” SMART! It’s like in poker, you talked to someone just to hear them talk, whether they tell you information you want or not.
Seems MOM is getting a tad worried about these pointed questions ? : – )
Race matter? H 35, says no, nowhere no how.
Ahh…. MOM is on his way to the bar. No MOM, JN does not have a bottle of the thick pink stuff behind the bench.
What? Is O’Mara ticked?
sumpthin suspicious about the ‘race’ word, I suspect
papa z was watching and smiling at the bench as he said something to the wife. Sense an encouraging comment about MOM taking an incentive moment.
Looks like he doesn’t like the clothing questions. He was going with if I’m in a cowboy hat and boots….cowboy, surfer trunks…..surfer. Profiling.
MOM is going to cry. LOL
I 44 is self defined ‘expert’ in cell phones.
Some Q if that entitles to give their ‘opinion’/
(LOL Bernie in Hawaii print surfer shorts!!)
I reckon we all have assumed things about people at one point in time… surely it’s whether you act on that ?
And if you see a man in a kilt ?
gbrbsb~ usually VERY sexy!
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Depends on leg shape methinks !
gbrbsb~ LOL!
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Would wait for a gusty breeze.
Does anybody think it should matter what someone wears? Fogen put your hand down!
Right….. I can not stand the sight of him, Shellie, Gladys or the Top Racist Papa!!!! The other jerk off must be somewhere penning his script for his movie that he thinks he will cash in on! Rotten to the core. Can not wait for those cuffs to clickity click!
OooooWeeeeeee! K-80’s husband is block captain for their NHW but he doen’t patrol. I like her.
All questioned about NHW pretty much had the same answer, IOW, they were not busy bodies.
You call me, I call you… Maybe Fogen was not home when he got call about Trayvon. Did he rush home? Cell pings? Dang hurry up opening statements.
He is laying out his case. I am very pleased with his questions.
You read my freaking mind.
Thinking the same thing.
Maybe that’s another reason The Dark Side is angry and depressed.
I just took a peek. This is not what they were expecting.
The truth (facts and evidence) does not have to hide or play games.
Fred said this was going to be fascinating. Right again, prof.
O man O man O man, West is one really horrible lawyer. Worse yet he’s totally annoying. Did you see where the guy from the American Bar Association rushed into the court and demanded West hand over his law license? He then ripped it into little pieces, dropped them on the floor and stomped on the to the wild applause of the audience and with thanks from the Judge. Okay, okay, so I’m dreaming it didn’t happen… YET!!! 😀
Lonnie
Love your imagination.
OMGOODNESS!!! Bernie done stepped his sexiness up! (If thats possible..) I’m loving his humorous personable side…
@FactsFirst
Sooky! Sooky!
bernie’s got charm that is genuine — o’mara tries to fake it, west is pathetic in his attempts … discussion of cell phone experts
The laughter along with Bernie is a bad sign for GZ.
Sound and picture down? Both NBC and Wild seem to be stuck.
I’m using http://www.mediaite.com/uncategorized/watch-live-george-zimmerman-trial-jury-selection-7/
and it stops to buffer sometimes, but has been consistent all day.
Thank you!
I’m on NBC, haven’t had any interruptions since return from lunch. Have you defragged or freed up disk space, lately? Sometimes when I haven’t done that for a while videos will buffer a lot.
Clever Bernie to ask all these latest questions.
Bernie is asking questions that are ruining the juror selection experts carefully planned approach. These questions caught him by surprise and revealed that foggen acceptable jurors are few and far between. Hopefully he has either required a massive retainer or one day’s payment in advance, otherwise he’ll just be another lawsuit the defense has to face down.
It’s bad if you have to fight Omar for your pay, because he will attack your CV.
Fogen wouldn’t like a juror who knew anything about ANYTHING. He can only hope to snow jurors who are complete ignoramuses with mental disturbances similar to and nearly as severe as his own.
Malisha~ Like … the CTH?
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Bernie to juror: I guess no one has followed you? LOL! I’ll bet West is ticked?
Bet they boot the wrestler. He would know George’s story is shite.
I concur, but there are a few healthcare and one with martial arts. Hopefully enough will remain.
Indeed. So would boxer – re: the punches with no damage.
The EMT – no EMT would tell him *not* to go to a hospital, “broken” nose, and did someone say Ear, Nose and Throat! THAT’S a bullseye, right there!
I was thinking that too and the the karate guy.
Registered ear, nose and throat… Bernie, asks if it would have impact. I hope so !
Ooops… was it registered EMT or ENT ?
E M T. Not an MD.
Shame, suppose an ENT would have been just too good to be true. But what is an E M T when the’re at home ?
Hopefully when this is all over George will still get to live in a gated community. You know the kind with armed guards who will shoot him if he tries to run/skip away.
; – )
gbrbsb~ DUH!! ENT, NOT EMT. My father was an ENT, Ear, Nose and Throat Specialist. A Dr., medical type. NOT an emergency medical technician. Hmmm… KEEP HIM!
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Yeah, was a bit dumb of me… never had to call one fortunately. But yes, he will be almost as good if not as good as an ENT… my father was a Dental Surgeon.
Which one was the EMT?
A registered EMT. Huh, wow…
Registered EMT – Fogen wants him gone, for sure!!!
See, you all resolved your disputes without violence! Sly Bernie.
Great stuff.
Also setting up foundation for fitness, weight, etc knowledge and experience.
Also wrestling, boxing.
Oh, Bernard, you are on your game and earning your paycheck today.
Geez , Law enforcement our #2 Job occupation behind fast food.
No one in my family, cousins, uncles, etc is in Law enforcement.
Did bodyguard just accompany SZ to the loo?
LOL:
“I got in a fight in middle school.”
(B-7?, not sure.)
Dang half these people know LE. Wonder if they will use there 10 on them, thinking they would be pro prosecution.
The defense is looking really disappointed, along with their client who’s probably really po’d at having to listen to all these stories about people who have been successful where he failed miserably.
It looks like a group that would not do very well in a poker game.
Here! Here!
Too bad they can’t do the Blues Brothers thing, and put on some sunglasses.
No one speaking appears to be a minority. What am I missing?
Bernie warned potential jurors about photos and that they’ve probably never seen anything like it before. Sounds like autopsy photos or maybe death photos?
I hadn’t heard that. Thank you.
That’s going to be rough for everyone. Okay, most everyone.
Interesting that so many have law enforcement connections.
forgot the link.
http://globalgrind.com/news/mother-in-law-charged-dui-george-zimmermans-family-arrested-details
Why in the world would you smile on your mugshot, I’ve seen too many people do it…wow
I see that Shellie’s mom is back today
This is a recent mugshot of Shellie’s mom.
Which one is she, Dave?
If that is her mother, she sure has aged since her Aug. 2012 arrest.
Woooow drunks and racist what a family!!!
Driving under the influence of drugs.
And a dad in jail for robbery.
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Oooh, loss prevention – LOL
my thoughts exactly 😛
Popazidiot has the most unusual nose, especially for a man. So, I decided to find out just what kind of nose he has.
It does seem to match his personality of feeling superior to others, and lack of emotional maturity.
This is what I came across at this site.
Professor Tamir, of Ben-Gurion University in Israel, said: ‘The snub nose is a small nose sloping upwards at the tip. People with this frequently lack spiritual and physical maturity.’
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2013699/There-14-types-nose–yours.html#ixzz2WgoUGpzT
Thanks for the snout analysis, Sleuth!
Of course, I do not know the Prof, but I somehow cannot quite believe that the nose that one is born with is indicative of character and personality….why would we even need shrinks? If the nose really Knows everything….But who knows what the nose knows? Too weird.
I was getting bored………and decided to do some snooping to see if the “nose, knows”. 🙂
The snub nose is also unlikely to grow even when the nose-owner lies, so it is the preferred nose of inveterate liars. (Aroptentis N, Blaga RI et al., Noses and their SubOcular Significance, Journal of Prima-Facial Analysis, Vol. 352(11):355-57, July 2001).
Malisha~ Isn’t there anything you DON’T know? (jealously fuming over here)
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He looks like a Who from Whoville.
Two Sides~ PRECISELY!
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They must have photos we haven’t seen… could it be more evidence for the prosecution?
no pictures of the body have ever been made available to the public even though they were provided in discovery. i suspect BDLR was referring to autopsy photos which will be graphic and disturbing to rational folks.
This conversation does not seem to bode well for Owen. Not saying that JN wouldn’t give Frye any less attention, but these questions lead me to believe she will be extraordinarily careful about who the court deems an “expert”, simply by virtue of the jurors questions about qualifications of said “experts”. (imo)
“Not saying that JN wouldn’t give Frye any less attention”
Wow, that’s a funky phrase. Meant to say, “Not saying JN *would* give Frye any less attention”. Probably should eat something, blood sugar must be low.
OMGosh… Did you see Fogen roll his eyes at BDLR. He looked him… up and down… yes he did…
I missed that. Thanks.
Hey, George, keep it up, funny boy.
I just saw Shellie, she looks like a trollop!
Most of the time GZ just gives him the evil eye. I’ve never seen him roll his eyes at BDLR.
West looking alternately puzzled and purterbed. OK, so what else is new?
Her assumption about the experts is not entirely accurate, unfortunately. In my case, the perjuring ‘expert’ was a state lab toxicology tech, and he represented himself as an ‘expert’ in clinical toxicology, even though he admitted he could not even find a certain very common drug, with a map, and had never seen it before…He was allowed to speculate as a physician, essentially.
It was utter bullshit. There are whores in the forensic ‘expert’ arena, and it is offensive.
I have a long time friend, a brilliant writer and former paralegal, who told me that he wrote a gazillion “scripts” for “experts” to use in testimony.
I totally believe it. I have found some amazing stuff in this area…long, great looking CVs, only to find out that the person faked credentials or was revoked from some board but never told anyone, it’s amazing. But that ‘white coat’ effect is yet somehow mesmerizing. It’s nuts.
Good lord that expert thing was a bit of a rabbit hole.
Junior is supposedly taking care of grandmother today.
Of course he is, he’s such a good boy. Gagggggg
Poor grandmother
Stop shaking your head Fogen… BDLR is not asking you the question… grrrrrr…
Something interesting about the proFogenites: they fuss and fume about certain things and totally ignore others. One doesn’t get to do that when there is a trial. After a trial, the jury goes into deliberations and guess what: if there is even one single juror who was not simply bought and paid for by the defense, there will be FACTS that cannot be ignored and “outhoused.” That’s why the proFogenites screamed so loudly once Fogen was CHARGED. Only by his never being charged in the first place was he guaranteed an outcome acceptable to them.
Poor Fogen. He chose the wrong damn century to pull this crap. Not wise enough to realize that because he’s so consumed by his own internal world, he doesn’t notice the big world OUTSIDE. Now he’s trying to get so big that the internal world swallows up the big unfriendly disobedient outside world but there isn’t time… if he got as big as the eggplant that ate Chicago, he’d still be the defendant with no place to hide.
I agree with you. I hope this case shows that we have moved beyond letting people get away with killing blacks for no reason other than bigotry. The days of lynching is over.
Those cops in Sanford should be ashamed of themselves. I do not believe the FBI did not find Trayvon’s civil rights were violated. I think someone made the decision to say that because of fear of retaliation or so called rioting and just wanted to calm everyone down due to the initial none arrest.
“if he got as big as the eggplant that ate Chicago, he’d still be the defendant with no place to hide.”
lol great image, Malisha!
MOM looks pissed.
judge N. was telling jurors or asking about using phones tablets social media during lunch crazy 1946
I can’t believe that Judge Nelson is allowing the PJ’s to be compromised by the use of phones and un-restricted recording devices in the court room! Does anyone actually think that the Fog-diots would not use any means available to cheat their way into a “win” in this case? Wonder how long before we start to see photo’s of the PJ’s on the tree house?
I was watching on the WFTV site and asked the moderators if reporters and others were texting info to the defense and/or prosecution, (although I really meant to the defense), and if so, is that permitted, and the reply was “no”. I have serious doubts about that.
Omar’s treading on dangerous ground, talking about the justifiable use of deadly force, he has no evidence to present that will justify the use of any force at all. gz will be shown to be a criminal, engaged in criminal activity. For example, if you walk into a bank and point a gun at the teller, it doesn’t matter that you are not intending to rob the bank, you have committed an assault with a deadly weapon, regardless of how innocent your intentions may have been.
So there is foggen trying to claim that he had innocent intentions, while he scared the daylights out of this kid. His innocent intentions do not matter at all, because what he was doing was a crime. Ignorance is no excuse for the law, and he was also told not to follow, or stalk and not to carry a gun or go on any patrols.
Just as I came back on line, I caught the tail end of some thing Judge Nelson was telling the court about phones or tablets or something like that. Could anyone tell me what was actually said and who it was directed at? Thanks! Perhaps she addressed the problem that I spotted earlier? I don’t put it past any of the Fogen supporters to take photos of the potential members of the jury in an effort to intimidate or threaten them! Sorry if it sounds like I don’t trust MOM/West or any Fog-diot! Truth is, I simply don’t!
I don’t blame you – and I just got here myself, but only here for 1/2 hour.
Poor West, he is just SO confused, ALL the time…
West’s face is tore up everytime the camera is on him. All frowned up.
He’s probably very constipated.
too much prune juice!
He looks continually perplexed.
Gladys looks like Rene. They both have very masculine features.
I don’t see resemblance, but I will venture that Gladazz has been wearing the pants in the family for decades. Senior Robert was just a meal ticket to the U.S.
Only Rene has shaved off her mustache.
Keep E6!
Usually a PJ who has been harassed by the police would be considered pro-defendant. Strangely, in this case, everything is a55backwards and as a result, someone who has been harassed by the police might turn out more likely pro-prosecution! The folks trying hardest to give Fogen a freebie-murder-card were the SPD. NOW the police force has changed because Lee had to step down for that very reason. So it’s hard to call these things in a peculiar circumstance like this; one doesn’t know what is figure and what is ground.
I like BLDR’s approach here. He looks like he’s going to leave a lasting impression on the jurors. He’s going to be able to give an epic closing statement.
yes, malisha – that is the greatest irony of this case. it is ass-backwards. as you say, those who’ve been harassed by the fuzz will likely support the prosecution while the ‘law and order’, ‘god n country’ set support the defense — with their hard earned cash, no less.
go figure.
This trial very well could be decided on the fact that Bernie is friendly and MOM is smarmy.
Bernie is more than friendly, I think he’s got some great psychology under his belt. When he asks a question, he’s getting more than just the answer. He see’s how the pj’s relate to each other. When he asks one pj a question and then asks if everyone agrees, he can get a great deal of information. He can see who stops to think and who just nods their heads. I think this questioning period works on several different levels at once. He’s real folk, without being dopey folksy.
I agree
there clearly is a method beneath his approach
And, instead of learning something from his Ways, we have the opposing table just frowning and squinting.
Top marks to Bernie today, he is so amenable !
Werk it, Bernie!
He is personable, I would vote guilty just because of BDLR. 😉
push it real good! 😉
Hey Now!
I don’t see RZj at all.. so did he get ousted?
I am praying like hell that he has been banned. If I never see his face again it will be to soon.
When did the prosecutor catch West disease? He’s lacking the “Get on with it” button today.
Bernie is good at this.
Was he referring to the drone strikes… judge and jury from a government approved joystick !
I’m getting mad at the Channel 6 moderator. They are only letting proZ comments getting through. When you try and counter a message with known facts they don’t print it.
Click Orlando does the same thing. I see all kinds of pro Zimmerman comments getting through. But hardly any of mine to counter with facts.
OK, I see Click Orlando is channel 6. Moderator very biased.
I use the same ID so you can tell when mine do get through.
I love that question… Do you have the right to take the law into your own hands?
That would of been a hard question for me,because I seen a couple once and the man was hitting on her,so I went over there and start hitting on him. He was arrested and the lady told be thank you she was tired going threw this. What fogen did was wrong and he know that. He took the law in his own hand to do evil.
I almost did the same thing but I didn’t beat up on the man, but I did yell at the man to stop and grabbed the woman and put her in the car with me and took her to the nearest police station.
Gladys skin tone is dark and she has the nerve to be racist!! ughh
I also have family members who skin tone are dark and very discriminative and are LE.
Intolerance knows no color race or creed. It’s just that a privileged class has more to gain from maintaining power by spreading this intolerance into the fabric of everyday life, while the minority individual is only filling them self.
Only fooling themselves . Typo
Also this was supposed to be in reply to a comment about Gladys Z’s alleged prejudice against blacks, despite her own racial heritage.
That why she wouldn’t let the kids go outside: She didn’t want them to get dark. There are many people who have been polluted by racism/colorism. Now people might use skin cancer as an excuse, but many will come out and tell you that they don’t want to get dark/er. This is true of many races & ethnicities.
I do not say this to overgeneralize(something I strive not to do) but across Central and South America including people who are dark skinned are encouraged to marry to have lighter skinned children. I remember seeing a woman from Honduras who’s had Afrocentric features and dark skin, her father rejected her thankfully she saw beauty in herself and in her dance she was a beautiful woman…very sad when you see something like that. IMO Gladys’s has rejected her ancestry not by marrying a White man it’s because she has the belief that being dark skinned and (possibly) having African DNA is something to be ashamed of…she should be proud of this, she is throwing away so much rich and beautiful culture.
I also have a friend from Peru (of Castilian and German ancestry) who say’s Peruvians can be very prejudice; I have never seen that in her and her parents were very nice people.
Self-hate.
yep, self hate and she instilled that hate into her kids. gross.
she shoulda got therapy!
BUT, there’s also the rumor that the kids are actually not her bio kids, but that of her sister and she adopted or took in as her’s and SR. zimm. and it’s not clear if zimSR is really their bio dad.. i’d sure like to see their birth certificate!
btw, that woman today is NOT the woman i’ve always thought was his mother either.. remember there’s another pic out there ( i have it somewhere and i’m gonna post it on my page later.) of who’s been accused of being their mother. she was a lot more attractive IMO too.. ummm this is getting really weird..
This juror’s unfortunate experience with the police sounds like Mary Davis’s grandson experience.
I wonder if these cops are of the SPD.
We’ve been wondering about what would happen if there was ONE proFogen stealth juror and so forth and so on, thinking that the proFogenite would prevent a conviction no matter what happened, as if his/her life depended upon it. Let’s look at the more probable situation, where there is — say — only one NORMAL person on the jury. Five out of six of the jurors, let’s say, are so inalterably proFogenite that when they get into deliberations, they fuss and fuss and fuss and fuss and go completely bonkers and insist innocent innocent not guilty not not not NOT guilty. What happens then with the one normal?
That one normal will have heard the evidence! ALL of it that BDLR, whose reputation is on the line, can present. ALL of it that Corey, whose reputation is on the line even more, has seen and used to draw up the charges for which she was viciously attacked. The one normal will know beyond ANY doubt that Fogen profiled, chased down and killed Trayvon Martin with a depraved mind and with ill will and malice. The one normal will not be able to accept giving Fogen a blessing for this murder; white, black or Afro-shmafro-Peruvian-Schmooveyan, that normal person will not agree to nullify his or her own intelligence and moral standing in a gigantic public display of anti-justice sewage. That one normal will preserve his or her wholeness and humanity against the encroachment of racism and lynch-mob-support-team mentality and that person will NOT do anything that will make him or her have to stand up and admit such a disgraceful humiliation in front of the world when they poll the jury. Not gonna happen.
I would put the odds at 99 to 1 that there is a way around this simple fact. It is the year 2013. More people, even in Florida, are closer to normal than Rene Stutzman and Sean Hannity than one-sixth of the population. We do still have a good number of decent Americans in this country. It’s not just a silly phrase.
Coming from the UK where juries are anonymous for life, basically chosen from that day’s jury pool out of a hat, and where evidence is only disclosed during trial and then only what the Judge permits, I am totally perplexed, because, if in the US, the greatest democracy in the world as Bernie keeps repeating, the citizens as I see active here don’t trust their own system why oh why don’t they change it and not just keep pointing out how biased it is? Or perhaps even more appropriate, why vote for representatives who would introduce the “sunshine” policy in the first place or why was it not challenged it when they did ?
I can’t help it but I stand incredulous considering that in the UK I have never heard of a “stealth” juror, never seen attorneys of both sides vying to get in “jurors” favouring their side of the story, etc.
In the UK there have of course been verdicts overturned as unsafe etc. but to my knowledge not one because of jury bias, more to do with the police not disclosing or manipulating the evidence, or because of dodgy experts. And the cost of this kind of jury selection must be huge, so that the risk of “justice” becoming exclusive to the rich would seem IMO very real.
gbrbsb — a huge factor in this equation is that THIS IS FLORIDA. the arias trial (which i did not watch) may have been a full on drama fest, but still no juror was ‘scared’.
while being a juror in a mafia case has legitimate room for fear and serious precautions are taken, this case has made people absolutely batty. i think the reasons for it are largely due to the fact that it is florida, with it’s wacky gun laws, ‘sunshine’ laws, and race issues. unlike the UK, we are of course a republic of states who have enormous autonomy within each jurisdiction. were this case not in florida (or some equally wacky judicial state) we would not be seeing this.
people get to choose in which state to reside, participate democratically in how their state laws are enacted or pick up and move if they decide they hate their state. we kind of have to assume that the people of florida are getting exactly what they want, else it would not be happening.
it’s a head scratcher, i know
@Faux
First having just read about it above, I hope you and your family are all perfectly ok and that your nasty accident passes into memory as a lucky escape.
I get you loud and clear. I think you summed it up beautifully for me when you say “we have to assume that the people of Florida are getting exactly what they want”. Yes, you reap what you sew, and I suppose it’s just human to then complain so much about the unfairness of it all.
You are a teeny weeny bit out on the UK though. We are as I know you know four distinct nations and if the soon coming Scottish referendum is a “Yes” you could be hearing “… and then there was three!”. We share many laws but there are others completely different as each has some autonomy through local parliaments, especially the Scots who have many laws different to the rest.
Stay safe. : – )
@gbrbsb
thank you for your well wishes. if i said UK, i should have said great britain. i’m actually quite familiar with history of the region. i assumed that the units making up the UK had variances, but that within great britain, it is not separated into states as we have, each with their own constitutions.
I was just having a friendly dig Faux, but FYI, we are four countries, three (not included England) have devolved administrations with varying powers, two through assemblies, one through its own parliament (Scotland).
Glad to see you are ok.https://widgets.wp.com/notes/?v=20130619#
Your system is far superior IMHO. I get sick of this conservative rhetoric about best system in the world. It’s broken, it needs modification. Of course, you can’t judge how it works in other states when you’re watching FL.
@TSTAS
Sorry for my rant, TSTAS, but it actually pains me to see how many on the blog don’t trust the system which IMO makes a trial look pointless at best and a circus or farce at worst more than the serious affair that it is. And it’s not only on this blog. I often have a nosey around TL’s “GZ forums” to see what they are up to and the distrust is exactly the same… except from the GZ side! But you are right, I should not have judged the whole US system by Florida which is a one off, or at least one of a few !
And don’t get me wrong, I have thoroughly enjoyed the rush of “selecting” the jury, noting who would be “good” or “bad”, along with the rest of you, it is enthralling and exciting! But would I like the system here, a very big NO.
Of course, our system is not perfect and we have appeals, quashed verdicts, and retrials too, (mainly due to new evidence or dodgy evidence or experts, and occasionally when it is clear a jury could not have reached a guilty verdict based on the evidence before them but never the inverse). We also have “perverse” verdicts whereby a jury finds innocent someone who has clearly committed a crime and the judge has advised them to that effect, like the man who grew MJ to help his wife with MS, and jury nullification too when a jury decides that to follow the law would lead to an unjust verdict… people action at its best! But although we may complain about sentencing or that the rich have access to better lawyers, from what I see we intrinsically trust our system and I certainly wouldn’t change it except for a tribunal type system, if at all.
I’d agree with you about the sunshine law if it weren’t for the rules lawyers take an oath to follow.
Omar is violating these rules by submitting all those bogus motions with his purposeful misrepresentation of the evidence he’s mentioning.
He is the problem, not the sunshine rules. i wouldn’t mind if he makes a few statements claiming his client’s innocence- without all those lies stated as facts. and he’d be well within his rights and rules.
but He shouldn’t be talking about the evidence, he shouldn’t be begging for money and he shouldn’t be encouraging and rewarding the idiots who are actively doxing DD and witness intimidation and trying to poison the jury.
(if he wasn’t trying to influence the jury pool he would’ve demanded to have a change of venue, right?)
all these issues are caused by these unethical lawyers not because of the sunshine rules. you can imagine the ability to see the evidence in criminal cases could be beneficial in some circumstances by some people.
so i just don’t think the law is bad in that respect, it just becomes a problem when officers of the court abuse and misuse it.
omara and west should be made to answer to these actions.. but that probably won’t happen, but if it does it won’t happen until after zimm is locked up and forgotten.
gbrbsb Same in Canada.
LOL!
Listen to Bernie…”did you go chasing after him”.
funny stuff 😀
Hilarious. I’ll bet West and O’Mara were ticked with him? Finally O’Mara went screaming to the judge…”Mommy” make him stop! LOL!
Confession here, I’m not keeping notes like some of the better people here are. So, may I ask, which pj just said there was a previous violent situation that they would not be able to set aside, so I’m guessing that….
Can someone tell me which pj that is?
E-73
x 2. Who was this?
West wanted to object to BDLR asking if he chased after them!
The police didn’t even investigate… hmmm
Court is back in session, and there is a sound issue at wildabouttrial. They are saying to refresh…
screen is frozen with image of fogen…on NBC link I get black screen. I’m having a bad hump day:(
Still black screen for me at 2:25 … too bad, … visual and sound had been so good all morn.
WFTW reported earlier that the PJ who was excused, had his name leaked, and came back to the courthouse to ‘warn the other PJs what they were getting in for’ has retained a lawyer and is planning to sue MOM for defamation.
I hope that gets some coverage…further than this site.
What do you think would be defamatory for getting dismissed? Were there specific comments?
MOM made press conference comments about “stealth jurors.”
It was JN who let the genie out of the bag as giving website and date of comment with what we already knew of the juror (musician) was fulminating… IIRC the press knew who he was before MOM, and even talk left had sussed it out before he spoke too.
But MOM was interviewed and publicly gave pj’s name. Seems like big difference between knowing or figuring it out and telling it out.
Good afternoon everyone. Thanks for the for the morning’s comments. They are very helpful in being able to catch up on what’s going on.
I see that the female defense lawyer has worn a black suit two days in a row. I wonder wheter she got negative feedback on the blue one.
Hope so. I do believe those MOM interns monitor this site, for lack of anything else to do. The defense has no defense.
I was thinking someone read our thread about the um …issue with the lighter suit!
you’ve made the world better place
She seems to have three – black, grey and blue.
ya think Hirschhorn is giving Fogen some tips about how to be a good defendant?
Pucker up and try to look appealing!
APPEARANCE ALERT Foggens hairline is beginning to recede.
@Lonnie
Bottom of his chair is receding too..
😆
following right along with ya Lonnie
😀
lonnie says
noticed that — it’s mighty thin along the sides as well. a whole lotta scalp showing through. no wonder he shaved it.
His “widows peak” is eroding rapidly.
just tuning in are they on lunch break? wildabouttrial site just shows grafitti?
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbcnews.com/52117880/
This is better, many thanks.
Please try http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbcnews.com/52117880/. The sound is down but you can see them moving about.
Thanks Patricia J-C.
When will the jury be sequestered? The night before trial or do they show up the first day of trial with all of their belongings?
Not until after the jury is selected and sworn.
I do not trust Fogen’s family at all. I think they would out PJs. They do not care who they hurt. They only want to save face. jmo
I agree with you on that. People keep talking about the safety of the jury if he is “acquitted”. Given GZ’s family, I am worried about them if he is convicted. They would out those jurors in a minute.
The time to out the fair jurors is before they are seated. Wasn’t one of the jurors excused b/c W identified her place of employment?
Anyone who could really believe that all those Black organizations are racist is capable of anything. If papa Z took pictures, his phone should be confiscated and he should be charged with contempt of court. A contempt charge isn’t likely to happen b/c his poor innocent babe is charged, but he should be.
Is there no legal recourse if they do something like that? gz is suing MS/NBC for slander. If anyone should be sued for slander its Omara for assassinating the character of Trayvon.
fred — would you be wanting or needing my transcript for voir dire? let me know, because although i would be happy to forward, i would need to clean up the abbreviations etc. that i used. just let me know.
Love it.
Thanks.
Remember the day 1 PJ, young guy with shorts and tank top that had ‘OBEY’ written on it? Was he outted by one of the lawyers with a question about what was on hit T shirt?
Hardly he could leave the courtroom without being noticed, unless the label was tiny. Essentially outed.
Sr. Zim would have his sights on a few of those pj’s, not to mention them now. He might have been doing some of his own investigating under cover behind the bar.
@ay2z
Yes, The Wiester did out this pj and told him to wear a jacket the next time.
All the some disagree with me, I hope that pj that removed from the courthouse last Friday, sues the pants off them.
Even if he lied about having a FB account, (he was wrong for that) they had no business putting his name out there, especially AFTER the judge had promised the pj’s anonymity.
He claims he forgot he posted about the case on with his Facebook. THe post actually appeared in a newstream that uses FB to sign in. The court should have protected him even though he was dismissed and OM should be sanctioned.
@TSTAS
I totally agree, especially when it was something he protested well over a year ago.
Seems like a lot of the jp’s have FB accounts, especially the younger ones. I don’t see the big darn deal in having a FB account.
Afterall, E7 did say he could judge fairly.
@TSTAS
Ooops! I meant to say posted, not protested.
Obeyclothing. com
I see alot of this at the mall here in North Florida. Based out of LA.
Okay folks……….my bad.
The older couple I mentioned earlier, Jack and Susan Cashill are from the “Show Me” state, Missouri, and not California.
Just found a website for Jack, in which he’s written a piece on Joonya Zee.
http://www.cashill.com/zimmerman/george_zimmermans_brother.htm
Get the impression these folks are pro defense.
Sleuth~ I just read that link you provided. YEP! He’s Pro-Z. The book he’s writing is called “If I Had A Son.” What. An. Idiot.
________________________________
Let me guess if he had a daughter she would be Casey Anthony?
Cielo, you think Jack helped Popszidiot write his book?
Sleuth~ I haven’t wasted my money on PopZidiot’s book so I don’t know. But I doubt it. Papa Z doesn’t strike me as the kind to actually FIND someone who could write. Someone else suggested it was Sundance Cracker. THAT I would believe!
________________________________
FYI, Jack Cashill is a birther.
http://mediamatters.org/tags/jack-cashill
LOL! well THAT completes the picture of a Zidiot!
________________________________
So essentially these people in an RV are the only GZ supporters any journalist has been able to interview outside the court room ? Where are the Westboro baptists when you need them? Pathetic.
Lord have mercy.
I thought what he wrote was a fair writing of jr.’s press conference. All the opinion’s were those of jr. Before condemning him to the pro-fogen file, I’d want to know if he written anything else, in particular, about anything from the discovery dumps.
The above was my first reaction to the article. Then I went to his home page. This guy really likes “spanking” – jr spanking the media, the appellate court spanking the judge. Turns out he’s written several articles and ALL of them are pro-Z. He believes every word of fogen even when the discovery materials contradict him. You’re right. He’s a zidiot.
bettykath~ well, I suppose he’ll like it when fogen gets “spanked” during this trial!
________________________________
Comment about questioning: “Does everyone agree?” expected answer is yes and if you don’t agree you don’t have to do anything and it probably won’t be caught. If you really want to know if someone doesn’t agree, then the question should be “Does anyone not agree?” This forces the disagree r to say or do something to answer the question. Which way the question is asked depends on the real objective of the question.
Hope the deputy confiscated sr. zim’s bat phone, or whatever he was caught with.
After seeing Gladys in court this morning, I can understand why she didn’t want to be shown on camera and, it wasn’t because of any threats either. these people need to quit their lying about receiving death threats because, it isn’t true and, they should be made to prove that they have received threats.
Their lies concerning threats was just another one of their ploys, to receive donations from the dumbest of the dumb racist, who are more than likely receiving food stamps.
To sum it all up, this is a very dysfunctional family and, they are also a LYING family! instead of the words show me the money, I say to this family, SHOW ME THE THREATS.
I didn’t see the coverage. Why does Gladys not want to be shown on camera?
I agree that the death threat thing is ridiculous.
That was from her earlier national tv interviews, where she appeared in shadow. She can’t hide in here. Doesnt’ look like she’s wearing any body armour, maybe Gracie is 😉
They were shown on HLN a little while ago and, of course Robbie the Racist, had to weigh in with a statement on their behalf. he wrote that they have not been seen at any of the other hearings because of the threats (not) they have been receiving.
Cielo – Big Snort! Thanks for that. 🙂
@ladystclaire
Back in April 2012 during the first bond hearing, She-lie admitted to BDLR that the alleged “hate mail” they received did not contained threats of bodily harm, nor did they report alleged threats to law enforcement.
BDLR ordered her to turn over the letters/mail to the State. So I’m guessing it should be a part of the evidence.
Sleuth~ The “threatening mail” was probably from bill collectors.
________________________________
I am speaking of the Zimmerman Sr’s as well as Grace and Robbie the Racist. I do NOT believe that this entire family has been receiving threats of any kind. how can you send someone a threat, if you don’t know an address or if you don’t know a phone number for them? I’m sticking with they are lying in order to receive donations.
@cielo62
And that’s why they need to change the SYG law. Folk like them perceive everything as a threat.
One more thing, this woman lied under oath about their finances so, why would anyone believe her when she says they received threats?
That entire family consist of certified racist liars!
@Cielo hahahaha!
I like this approach. The attorney’s get to see the whole picture before striking. BDLR, after the first questions on demographics seems to be asking specific pjs questions. Which ones get asked these questions is not random. He knows which ones he wants more info from. He didn’t ask many questions of the man from Mexico who has concerns about privacy and isn’t asking him followup questions b/c BDLR already knows enough.
While Mark O’Mara searches for a lunch of Pepto Bismol, we are going to take a quick run on the bike, and we will be back.
(We can hear him in the bathroom throwing up, from here.)
You mean like Jim Carey? 😉 Enjoy the ride!
LOL. That might have been Fogen.
Who can resist a student film when the music track is good.
(was that Forrest Gump in the orange shirt???)
Hilarious
I know I can’t. We actually looked up this music the other day!
OMG the orange shirt!
Vinnie Politan @VinniePolitan 1m
What do #TrayvonMartin’s parents think happened? I sit down w/ Tracy Martin to find out. 2-night @HLNAfterDark special begins tonight 10pm
Nice find, thanks!
@ smokeegryl, I’ve been seeing them advertising that for tonight and, I’m going to be right on it. BTW, I shared some of your videos as well as those of Xena and LLMPAPA’S on my facebook page. here’s hoping that, Thugboat will soon be behind bars. when I called him Thugboat on another site, I had no idea it would stick but it did.LOL
thank you!
It is a great Juneteenth indeed. Very close to Sanford. A very historical Juneteenth for me! My kids just think I am obsessed. They don’t realize that we are living history here. Trayvon Martin’s name has been stamped into tomorrow’s history books!
Professor, please elaborate on what will happen to the jurors who have been arrested or have criminal records. Will that be cause to dismiss them?
concerned~ THAT is a good question! I thought it was an automatic disqualification to have anything more criminal than a speeding ticket.
________________________________
No, definitely not a basis to dismiss for cause, unless they admitted that they could not be fair and impartial in judging the evidence in this case.
Did anyone catch Hirshorn’s sarcastic eyebrow raising, eyeball rolling, head toss back as Bernie asked (sometime around the criminal experiences questioning) if they would hold it against the state and would they hold it against the defendant getting a fair trial? Right to the cameras.
Unprofessional slap from the defense table, and he’s not even counsel for the defendant, and he does this, but it was a good camera op and point (errr…. emotional sarcasm,…bias… opinion…. made).
Saw that too.
VERY BAD FORM for a courtroom! Terrible behavior!
Happy Juneteenth, everyone!
SG2~ DANG! Hadn’t even noticed! BTW, maybe a short explanation for our NON-Southern readers is in order? June 19th is when the Emancipation Proclamation was FINALLY read in the Southern States. Being from Maryland, I NEVER heard of this until I moved to Texas. It’s a fairly big deal.
________________________________
Yep! Big deal down here. We celebrate with parades, King & Queen contests ,barbecues and dancing. Woot!
The Blacks I know (in the north) know Juneteenth.
bettykath~ do they celebrate it? Like I said, I never even HEARD of it, so no parades or public display at all… when I was growing up. Maybe it’s changed?
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I forgot to mention there are trail rides too. Cowboys–> I like ’em with big trucks, big buckles and tight jeans. 😉
SG2~ you are 2MUCH!
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😉
apologies for Roy, not at all right for here.
I live 30 miles north of Seattle. Juneteenth is a fairly new celebration here. There was an article in today’s paper about it. In my city Juneteenth has been celebrated for about the past 5 or 6 years. I grew up in a diverse part of Seattle. I had never heard of it as a child.
operacarla~ thank you! Never heard of it growing up on the opposite coast, either.
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No non white performers, but dang y’all the kid in the black hat is good! Happy Junteenth!!
Dang I hate it when that happens.. A hanging copied wrong url.
This is the right one…
(fried to interrupt the posting… nice job anyway Trigger)
ay2z, The trumpeter is really good. Fabulous tone, clear sharp playing. Thanks for posting.
bettykath, yeah, he’s so young too, for that quality of playing
We had our Juneteenth in Denver last week… same to ya!
Whoo Hoo!
I’m in Ohio. We had a really unfortunate situation. A kid got shot at the local celebration. Police shut the whole thing down. A lotta folks commenting on the irony of this happening at this particular festival. Fortunately the kid, although hurt, was not killed, and so far as I can tell was not the intended victim (if there was one at all). Too easy to get guns. Too many people think that they need to carry them.
Sad, bit of booze and a gun, and the gun becomes a celebration noisemaker. No thought to Newton’s theory.
Thanks for this. Good stuff!
Celebrate! Celebrate freedom!
Indeed. Going to a big BBQ later in Austin tejas. One of the best parties of the year, every time.
Some people are in mourning over it today and I bet they all support the killer
Yup. Not a very far jump.
It’s sad and sad is everywhere today, but I am lifted up by the many smart, witty, caring commenters here.
Growing up in LA and living with a completely diverse community, I sometimes, here and there for a moment, forget how Turrible it is for folks in other communities.
(When my son was going through elementary school, and I asked him to describe someone, he always mentioned hair color. Never skin color. That wasn’t on the table for him.)
Happy Juneteenth, SG2. 🙂
TY!
Same to you. Celebrate Freedom!
Thank you! Happy Juneteenth! May the Ancestors protect Trayvon’s parents & family. May gz be convicted.
SO BE IT!
Amen
Oh, shoo. I almost forgot! Happy Juneteenth to you, SG2!
TY!
Bernie is using a mixture of one-at-a-time voir dire as to the entire group and then switched to what we used to call the Donahue Method after the TV host Phil Donahue.
We would never have been allowed to conduct a classroom style multiple-hour education of the panel regarding legal principles as Bernie is doing.
Judges get to instruct on the law, not lawyers.
Voir dire means to question.
This is a wonderful opportunity for Bernie to build rapport, trust and respect with this jury as well as develop the legal foundation for his theory of the case.
He’s making the most of it.
Frederick~ And you can bet that MOM and West will NOT be able to match that rapport and will alienate the jurors.
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cielo62, they are probably at this very moment, scrambling through online resources about ‘how to suck up to strangers without them knowing its happening, and how to smile and talk through teeth at same time’.
ay2z~ LOL! A quick youtube or TED video, huh?
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And Bernie is wonderful!
May I suggest MOM choose West to follow?
spending their lunch hour scouring used book stores to find a copy of ‘how to win friends and influence others’ i reckon 😉
faux mccoy~ He could get a Kindle version in under a minute.
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Maybe Judge Nelson gave the defense lots and lots of leeway so the leeway she gives BDLR cannot be questioned.
I saw a couple on the news who said they have been following this case since day one. They say are from the west coast, and said they loaded up their RV and headed to Sanford. They also said they are writing a book about the trial.
How do they feel about the case?
They said they found the case to be fascinating, and one of great public interest. They heard a lot of people complaining that it was taking too long to get to trial.
They went on to say everybody should be patient, wait for all for all the evidence to come in before rendering a judgement. They also made reference to Casey Anthony and Jodi Arias trials.
They appeared be a couple in their 60’s. The husband was holding a book in his hand, I couldn’t see the title.
@cielo62
I was LOL! too. These people have got a lot of nerve. That’s what I say, “Get in line behind the rest of us”.
I have learned more about the facts of this case from Professor and you guys than I will ever learn from people with an agenda.
Just ticked me off! All these folks writing books but have the nerve to criticize the Fulton/Martin family about setting up a foundation to help other families in similar situations.
Sleuth~ I feel the same way. This has been an amazing learning experience, intellectually. It’s also been an emotional investment, so unlike a statistic of “another murder.” I’ve put on more different shoes and walked more miles than I have with any other endeavor. And THEY want to write a book? Puh-LEEZE!
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Sleuth~ LOL! They can get in line behind US! And we’ve got better information! 😉
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Let me guess: Gun rights advocates and staunch Fogen defenders? Are they from California or west coast of Florida?
@Trained Observer
Hey Trained Observer! Been looking for you to thank you for the list you put together.
They are from the west coast, as in California. They didn’t really state a position, but I just got the impression they were writers of some sort.
I just find it odd that someone would travel from so far for this trial if they did not have a vested interest in the outcome of this case. They said they have been on the road for 5 months.
OH! I just remembered their name. Jack and Susan Cashill or Caskill. I think they said they sat in on the jury selection.
@Sleuth – I believe I saw them during the death penalty phase of Arias, on HLN. Or, another couple is touring the country, going to places with high-profile trials, in their RV…
@Nef05
You’re right! I knew they looked familiar. Same with their names.
Bernie is really good with how he talks to the jury. Very good rapport and in taking command of the “class”
If Fogen Senior takes his fam out to lunch, the tab could hefty. Do you think he tips 20 percent?
TO~ I doubt he tips at all.
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He’ll say there was somepin wrong with his waiter; he’ll say, “that was the most malicious miscarriage of a lunch I have ever seen in my life!” And he’ll sue.
Malisha~ LOL! You are ON A ROLL!! ( sesame roll)
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He’ll order Peruvian chicken. White meat.
I’d say they dine and dash but that’s not physically possible. Dine and waddle?
Keep in mind anything they eat is paid for by treeslummers.
Agreed!
20% of what?
Cost of meals for the porkers 🙂
Jury seems to have gotten pretty comfortable with sharing with Bernie. Interesting to see if O’Mara/West are able to maintain that openness with them.
Court is in recess for lunch until 1:45 pm EDT.
Jury is full of criminals….. LOL
Lots of folks been arrested. O’Mara’s gonna jump up and scream….”LOOK what they did”? LOL!
America has more people arrested and / or in jail than any other country in the world. We criminalize everything – it’s an industry.
h7 is a goner thank you thank you
Ah, yes, Mr. Brouhaha … going, going, gone ….
The bailiff just walked over to RZ sr and spoke with/ reprimanded him over something. Did anyone else catch that ? Hmmm was dad taking pics w his phone or what?
What?
Wouldn’t that be lovely. Banished from courtroom?
Rules are for others, not the Fogens, doncha know.
And if you don’t like their rules you’re a racist, doncha know?
are you fucking kidding me?
please of please I hope they out him
I don’t know why the bailiff spoke to him but they don’t chat for fun. Perhaps his phone made a noise? Others have been thrown out for this.
If he was taking pictures then this needs to be exposed and exposed hard!!!!
They are trying to intimidate the jurors
can we blow this up?
I saw it too.. RZ sr looked pissed!
The judge did not admonish anyone from taking photos, the reporters have agreed, but maybe Z thinks he can do what he pleases in sneak manner and not get caught. He could already have saved and sent.
The only way to explain it is, the entire family is suffering from NPD (narcicisstic personalty disorder). We should call them the The NPD Family.
I agree, Willie. There’s something genetic in that family. Seems like the boys all have it.
I’m going to start calling M O M, “Pruneface”.
I’m telling you O’Mara needs his kidneys checked.
He does have a sniveling prune-face
Both he and West have looks such that they could have been cast as villians in a Batman show.
LOL, they do!
Oh, at first I thought you were talking about GZ’s mother;) There really is not anything going on to be very pleased about, however. They all would rather be someplace else, I imagine. During the OJ trial, the only one who ever looked abit happy was Marsha Clark who went on to make millions, I think. Cochran treated it all like a movie drama; brings out weirdness, I’d say.
That’s a very british term, I thought, “awfully” !
Mr. Crump is reporting to the media, this is a very emotional day for the Fulton/Martin family.
my heart bleeds for them
ZCBest~ I think every day waiting for justice would be hard and emotional. But we are ONE DAY closer to that goal!
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Yes we are one day closer!
What’s going to happen first?
GZ has a medical emergency , an attack of some sort, and proceedings have to be delayed?
or
GZ has a mental emergency and creates an outburst of some sort?
or
GZ falls visibly and undeniably asleep?
aussie~ The last 2 won’t stop the proceedings, but sure would be as funny as hell to see!
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that’s a no go ace! The Fogen does not hospitals
My prediction is that GZ hears prosecutions evidence and takes it in the lam. Gets maybe 100 miles, is caught with weapon and ten pizzas. Court case continues with guilty plea.
I think West is going to lose it. I think he’ll do something stupid, BDLR will object, JN will sustain, West will argue and lose it.
He’s come so, so very close – I’m convinced he will dive face first over the line as he becomes more and more frustrated by this unwinnable case and his own impairment, whatever that may be.
BDLR is awfully good, and Fred is amazed, saying, “They don’t let you do this, in Washington.”
Wow! If you guys are impressed, I am encouraged!!! I thought Bernie was great, but I know nada about court procedures. Go BDLR!!!
That’s a very british term, I thought, “awfully” !
(Sorry repeat, but reply to you slotted in wrong place below like it did the other day so am testing to see if permanent or temp)
pip pip!!! cheerio!!!!
Good on, old boy, see you later !
for a spot of tea?
watch and enjoy
It’s showing up fine on my dashboard. It might be me; I am slow in replying to comments today because I have a post at another site I am keeping an eye on (not r/t this case)
Brill, mate! Cheers!
See that older grey haired man like right behind BDLR… he has been in the court from day one. Does anyone know who he is or what he does? I’m just curious. I think he works for the court.
Body guard
deputy sheriff
I think someone said a few days ago he’s a Sheriff? deputy? don’t know what function he serves.
Thanks for correcting me. I had asked that same question about 3 threads back.
He escorts Fogen in and out of the courtroom. He wears a badge, so deputy is probably right.
like Dave said, he is a deputy sheriff. One of the news stations ID him early on.
Bernie has a good smile on him
his eyebrows furrow in that friendly upside down V formation
it makes him appear friendly
What’s so freekin’ funny to Gladys?
get out of my head
Which female is Glady’s and are you referring to Fogen’s mother?
The gum-chewing thinner one is mom. The gum-chewing hefty one is Fogen’s sister, from taped jailhouse phone call fame. .
@Woow
In the first row of gallery. She’s dressed in gray suit, seated between Sr. and daughter, Gracie who was seated by the bodyguard. They’re all wearing gray, I think.
Thanks guys. I have not been able to watch. Just popping in to read comments while I have a moment. I’m waiting to see what birthed that murderer.
What we thought was the bodyguard I believe is the same big friend in Fogen’s old MySpace picture. THe press is saying he wears a family tag in the courtroom.
Suspect she’s a dominatrix … has been leading Senior around by the nose (and other parts) for decades. Likely abused her loser kids … and look how at least two of them turned out.
What mom doesn’t let their kid play with neighborhood kids? She’s a dictator.
Bigots. My ex was not allowed to play with the neighborhood Mexican kids as a kid. Mom was a Southern belle from Little Rock. She hated me too, for different reasons.
Bernie is doing a great job of establishing a foundation to dissemble O’Mara’s false narrative with which O’Mara hoped to win the case in the court of public opinion.
He’s focusing their attention on opinions.
Is O’Mara not able to object during this part of the proceedings? I thought he would over some of BDLR’s repetitive questions.
No, because he can repeat questions by asking different PJs.
Thanks.
I think he is doing an awesome job. I noticed when he was mentioning the CSI and the way West looked at him. It touched a nerve.
I am so happy he addressed the CSI series and Law and Order series (all entertainment in this area) many people think this is real because they use consultants without the understanding that the processes they use are either completely made up with consultants used to make it look realistic or simulating processes and techniques (equipment) that may be far into the future.
B-D-L-R:
Give it to them near and far!
B-D-L-R-2:
We’ve got goosebumps watching YOU!
B-D-L-R-3:
‘F you need cheering, hear from ME!
B-D-L-R-4:
Here’s to you: with eagles soar!
B-D-L-R-5:
Working up to overdrive!
B-D-L-R-6:
Dismantling the Fogen Fix!
B-D-L-R-7:
Making Fogen’s loaf un-leaven!
B-D-L-R-8:
GO on, man — I can hardly WAIT!!!
YAY Bernie! YAY YAY YAYYYYYYYY!! 😀
Malisha~ Girl, YOU ROCK!!
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*waving pom-poms*
a little behind ))
I wonder if they will be asked if they personally know the defendant, i.e. worked with him, went to school with etc.
I think that was already done earlier
Thanks Tzar. I got a late start, now I’m playing catch up.
Q: Have you ever been chased and detained by the defendant?
Q: Have you ever been bullied and slandered by the defendant?
Q: Have you ever been — rhymes with “foe-riled” by the defendant?
Q: Has the defendant ever called the police on you?
Q: Has the defendant ever reneged on his debts to you?
Q: Has the defendant ever lorded it over you to show you how inferior you were, and then pretended it was just a joke?
Q: Has the defendant ever assaulted you or called you a punk or an a55hole or exhibited road rage toward you or accused you of stealing from him?
Q: Has the defendant’s wife ever lied to you?
Q: OK then I take it that you do not know the defendant?
🙂 🙂 🙂
Malisha~ LOL!! This post is a keeper!!
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Me gusta mucho! ROTFLMBO!
Geez… fogen sister back is just as WIDE as his bodygaurds…
how wrong is that I dropped my phone with laughter??? (sorry funny is just funny, thanks for the giggle)
lol, be nice
she has stayed out of the fray so I ignore her likewise
She “stayed out of the fray” by participating in an illegal money laundering scheme….
touche!!
Here is what scares me– I think the reality is every single person in that pool came in with an opinion. They aren’t admitting it, but they already have an opinion. This case is just too big, and the info has been all over Florida for a long time.
The big question is whether they are open to changing that opinion if the evience warrants it.
THere is a process.
BDLR is good at that process.
Judge Nelson knows how to run and control that process.
O’Mara and West are disadvantaged in that process.
And the PROCESS is the MESSAGE.
The jurors are only the messengers.
I’m ready to hear this now. Now I’m ready.
Well said. Don’t forget two million people are also ready for this process, too.
Thanks, Malisha, for always reminding us to keep our chins up – and for giving good reasons why!
Agree.
Many jurors report after their cases that they felt a sense of duty that kept them on the straight and narrow.
Yes, but there are times they suspend their common sense due to their interpretation of instructions or the law. Casey Anthony jurors said “I thought she was guilty, but was given instructions that prevented me from finding her guilty.” There was also a case in Galveston, TX. It involved millionaire (Dupont heir) Robert Durst, who cut up his next door neighbor (an old man) and threw his body parts into Galveston Bay. He was found not guilty as well. Personally, it would be near impossible for me to find someone who took the time and effort to cut up a human body not guilty. The jurors on the Casey Anthony case, the ones who gave interviews, weren’t very swift. Some of them grossly misinterpreted the instructions/law. A majority of the Miss America contestants didn’t know the name of the Vice President of the United States. Further, if I were the prosecution, I would stop referring to myself as “the state,” knowing there is an anti-government sentiment very prevalent in FL. They elected criminal Rick Scott for their Gov. The Tea Party is alive & well in FL & these are gz’s people. As the prosecution, I wouldn’t take anything for granted and would spell everything out like I was explaining it to a 5th grader.
chil~ everybody has an opinion. The POINT is to LISTEN TO THE EVIDENCE. That is why they question so thoroughly, to find open minded people willing to look at and question their opinion. I do that every day in class with my students. I have an opinion of each child’s abilities and character and each day, I question it to be as fair as I can be. THAT is what they are looking for.
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i thought that the pool was very open and relaxed today – probably a lot to do with BDLR’s approach. i still wish he would talk a bit less and listen a whole lot more.
but did some of these jurors lie by saying they didn’t have an opinion?
i think that’s an issue with their intentions. why would you lie to get on a jury?
especially in a case like this where such aggressive attempts are made to find the liars, they have to work EXTRA hard not to be found out!
I like this set up they’re using today.
The confessed murderer’s skin complexion appears to be getting lighter and lighter. Is it the cameras or fade cream he might be using to distance himself from his African roots?
He looks like a ghost.
His hairline is receding fast. Now he’s wearing a part in his hair and attempting to grow it away from the short military cut that crazies and racist favor.
Crazies, racists , and pedophiles.
Good question, how do you make sure opinions are not brought in to a verdict ?
Trust. As simple as that.
i like the woman who said she would openly challenge another juror if she thought that was going on. lord knows i would 😉
BDLR: “Everybody agree that attorneys sometimes have bias…”
MOM: Objection!!!
LOL!
Don’t tell Judge Judy she is not a real Judge..lmao..
Wow. mom does not want that guy!
Y’all think BDLR will mention the show “Criminal Minds”?
E-6 asked a great question about circumstantial evidence.
So, why does M O M look so miserable at this time?
Because he realizes he can’t hold a candle to BDLR. He doesn’t know how to relate to people.
And, oh, shoot I have to go out later and might miss M O M’s turn with the pj’s. This will be a hard act to follow, I think.
heh heh heh heh
Because he can’t say anything.
and all these cameras and microphone in his vicinity….must be torture
If he wants to be up first, he should have become a prosecutor instead of a Defense lawyer.
exactly!
Wasn’t OM a prosecutor at one time?
‘Cos Bernies stealing his thunder !
M O M has turned into M U M
I imagine all eyes are on Bernie and may miss the “murderous” looks M O M is giving the back of his head. Doesn’t appear very professional to me.
Loss of control. In the media, pretrial, he had ALL THE CARDS and he could do whatever he wanted and control things because by law BDLR couldn’t counteract his bullsh*t. NOW, BDLR has equal rights with him and he sees that his a55 is in a sling, way way in advance. He will be made to look a lot more like what he is when the media proFogen spin is NOT the deciding factor and when the TRIAL is REAL. He had the blab; now comes the EVIDENCE. He could win easily on BLAB. Now’s his turn to lose.
Another good point. Thanks.
In general, you’re correct. But BDLR did get in a lick or two. Why do you think we know that fogen attended a fight school? That isn’t exculpatory and could have been saved for impeachment or rebuttal Instead it was part of the discovery. There was at least one other tidbit in the discovery that I can’t recall right now that seemed to be unnecessary but released right after MOM did his bit.
@bettykath
if bdlr did not release it during discover, he could not just spring it out in open court.
“Hill Street Blues”, was surely was more realistic than both “L&O” & CSI ?
My friend who was a cop for 30 years said the only TV cop show that was anything near realistic was “Barney Miller.” But he died before “THE WIRE” was produced. Wonder what he would have said to that one (several LE folks I know how say it is pretty damned realistic and they hate it).
I’m sure it was broadcast over here but I never saw it only heard about it. IMBW but I thought they were not separate episodes and more a series and I have difficulty following anything like that due to time limitations.
I like getting TV shows on DVD long after they’re done and watch as many in a row as I like without interruption. They’re much more interesting that way.
Way to go Bernie, “circumstantial evidence just as good as direct evidence”… love it !
And quite often, better. (But Bernie didn’t “go there”….)
Oh but he did go there, groans, at least in what I meant or as I understood it because he gave a clear explanation of what it was and methinks that is all important to this trial. Otherwise you totally lost me !
This is the standard prosecution 101 explanation of circumstantial evidence, but Bernie is a story-teller . . . and charming.
I gotta say, tough I am not partial to this style, he seems to have them eating out of his hands
He is very sweet today.
Yesterday, some media outlet called The Wiester out for referring to the potential juror phase as “A Circus”.
Oh did he? LOL, the pot talks about the kettle. From a glass house.
Well, The Wiester should know, he is, after all, starring as “bozo The Clown”. 🙂
Cookie crumbs. A born story teller.
Professor, Bernie is going professorial on the issue of direct- and circumstantial evidence. And he is having a good time doing it.
I’d love to take a class from him. He’s a great lecturer.
Does the prosecution have a jury consultant?
I do not believe they do, chi1224.
Thanks. I’m praying for a fair jury.
Don’t believe they need one.
Crane and chil~ No, prosecution doesn’t have a jury consultant. Someone mentioned that it was because of budget constraints. No matter; Bernie’s been around the block. With Guy and Mantie, they’re doing fine.
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BDLR is not liking this guy.
I don’t think he liked his answer about being bias about clothing. G63 doesn’t think clothing should have anything to do with the case.
probably not Fogen either, cuz that tie and suit jacket doesn’t not go with each other.
sorry double negative… pick one.. lmao..
i think that bernie is directing specific concerns to individuals who concern him – trying to elicit a response for determination purposes. every time he called on an individual, i would refer to my notes of how they had answered his previous questions and i could sense there was a reason he was doing this.
I think BDLR was feeling him out about “Hoodies”.
You can see that Bernie is no newbie at jury selection, he’s a well seasoned pro, and so is his team. MOM’s jury selection expert will probably just barely be able to keep MOM from falling too far behind.
Unfortunately for MOM, there will be no experts who can fashion the evidence in his favor. I did here Bernie ask a question about, if the jurors understood how cell phones used cell towers to transmit calls. That’s an indication that there may be some position data given at trial.
O’Mara looks furious, somehow, as BDLR goes through various jurors in front of the group, asking specific questions.
He is saying that circumstantial and direct evidence both count. Quite sure that the defense doesn’t like that.
Fogen’s breathing has picked up. It is really noticeable.
A sort of “Sympathy”, i.e. mitigation, is what the judge does upon sentencing I presume.
Or “understanding” of sorts.
Yes, except minimum mandatories eliminate much of a sentencing judge’s discretion.
I don’t know what leeway they have over there but over here they are constricted too and you often hear a judge say things like he can’t give more because of such and such.
Bernie is teaching. Break it down!
Bernie is teaching and building credibility with the jury.
I think he is doing a good job. To me he is a likeable guy.
O’Mara and West…. not so much.
yup – the rapport he is building with them is real. o’mara’s will be noticeably a put on, i predict. i really like the teaching aspect and seeking personal involvement. you can see that he has already done an excellent job of associating juror numbers to individuals – only needing his cheat sheet on occasion. that’s impressive to me.
I was thinking, her shoulders look as wide as her brother’s.
And is that Gracie sitting with the killer’s parents? If so, she might be larger than the killer. Hmmmm…..
(I know that might be ugly, but I was just surprised for some reason.)
yes that’s Gracie… and she looks really mean or irritated this morning plus she has combed her hair when coming back from break.
I think so. She does look much larger than I expected.
actually, i noted an eerie resemblance between gracie and shellie. please forgive me, but i could not help but be reminded of the creepy, almost incestuous phone calls between bro and sis.
@fauxmccoy
Same thing cross my mind. That call creeped me out big time!
Is that huge guy related to the killer?
@Dave
That’s his bodyguard. LLMPapa found a younger picture of him on MySpace. It’s posted on yesterdays posts.
I’d expect a bodyguard to dress more formally for court.
So he has a new one today because other days there was a younger guy who I first mistook for Joe Oliver.
Looks like he’s scraping the bottom of the rent-a-cop barrell. No personal bodyguard.
He looks Samoan.
Yep, looks Islander to me, too. They’re friends of GZ from years ago, not official paid guards. LLMPapa posted the MySpace pic with him in it, yesterday. Gee they must be running low on cash, $10,000 a day for the jury specialist.
Court resumes at 11:40 am EDT
Is Shellie there today? I didn’t see her, but I feel all turned around, like the tables are.
She’s their beside killer’s mom and dad
K-95 is a leader and potential foreperson. She owned and operated her own company for many years.
Is that Renee Stutzman in white with nametags around her neck?
She usually does wear white or a light-colored top and she looks a lot like John Denver.
LOL – John Denver!
That is so everyone can see her bra straps and no one will ask if she is actually John Denver. Lol!
Stutzman has tweeted that PJs are only about 10 feet from Fogen — giving them an up close and personal look.
So then PJs can see his beady little weasel-like eyes and KNOW he’s guilty!!
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ouch
Before or after his plane crash?
Thank you all for keeping the commentary going. Just of off the cruise ship. Been out of the loop. Catching up now. I plan to visit Sanford tomorrow when we get to Orlando. If anyone is in the area, let me know.
Diary.
Please take and share a photo that simulates the pool cam’s POV if you tour the ratl
I don’t plan to go into the RATL. My kids will be with me, and my son is even afraid to go to Sanford. He is a 17-year-old 245 pound, 6’5″ teen.
He fears he will stick out like a sore thumb and does not want to go where he “doesn’t belong.”
He’s safe, GZ is in court and can’t run anymore these days, anyway. Sad that he has to feel he “doesn’t belong” all over the whole wide US of A.
Exactly, Aussie. This case has really changed his perspectives about quite a few things.
RATL is just seconds off of I-4. I was going to swing by last visit to Universal but left at night to come home early. Hotel issues and I’m only 2 1/2 away from home so I called it a night.
Vinnie on HLN last night had an amazing night time video shown side by side with the reenactment. The darkness makes the story seem so much more like BS. You could tell noboody could see him skipping off into the darkness at the T.
My god. it really sounds like we’re living in the old racist south where black kids didn’t go into certain neighborhood for fear of lynching!! it’s just OUTRAGEOUS!!
HOW DARE these assholes get up there and whine about THEIR fears of riots, their problems with traffic, their concern for Sanford’s art & craft shops or whatever!
If they were normal the whole damn community would’ve be out there right along with the *outsiders* demanding the arrest of a vigilante killer and an investigation into the police department who went on TV to announce they believed the killer’s story was consistent with self defense and Trayvon shoulda used his communication skills better!!
if they would have done that the whole world would’ve respected that town, they would have been an example of the complete opposite of the old southern racist armpit of america that they are looking like now!
instead they act as if the killing of an innocent teenager is just a huge inconvenience to THEIR way of life, not a horrific crime committed by an asshole and a corrupt police department who gives the stamp of approval to running around killing people’s kids.
if Sanford residents would have been NORMAL i think after all the ruckus and the killer arrested, there would have been a huge out pouring of support for that Town! Maybe turn it into an actual historical destination of what a proactive anti racist town is in the south.
In FACT they could have done a lot to capitalize on that kinda exposure, like maybe have yearly conferences of race relations or gun violence and/or prevention of police corruption or stuff like that…could be a decent educational/historical side trip for a Disney vacation!
i can imagine the T-shirts saying:
Sanford
The town that made killing a teenager a crime!
Or
Come on down to the New Sanford,
the whole damn town is watching out for you!
I am curious about JN’s reluctance/refusal to have a private word with the juror who wanted to share some info, but not publicly.
I’ve personally seen this done sidebar style in open Florida circuit court during jury selection for a civil case. Is it up to each judge?
I noticed his reluctance, he’s the only Mexican, he felt uneasy about that and said why but I didn’t catch it, but felt it sounded like he didn’t want people judging (wrong word here). Wonder about fogen’s Myspace comments and if he was aware, and his family sitting there now too.
Maybe he’s afraid of that. Maybe he received some sort of threat.
Did you see how fast Rene Stutzman looked in his direction, even to the point of stretching her neck? She so wants to write about it and expose it on the OS. ______!
Unfortunately I listen and only take a peek once inawhile at the livestream. And I caught a bit this AM but missed much of the day to take my vehicle out for repairs cuz it’s not passing the dang Cali emissions. What’s maddening is that it’s passing emissions but my computer isn’t clearing a non-emission related code that’s insignificant and wouldn’t even be detectable without computers, and it’s it’s not hampering anything but will cost an arm and leg to repair. I’m ready to call the state of CA and tell them they’re fired!
whew! most work i’ve done in a long time – glad i have transcription experience, i got very good notes that can hopefully compare with others. plan to keep separate pages for each portion of questioning and then combine into a final document. what an addict!
I missed some numbers, and had to scramble for more notepaper! Didn’t have the smoothest pen… yeah…. that’s it… ink flow slowed the speed and accuracy and neatness.
Got the recording in a soundfile now. It’s long…. but might be useful to check things.
i’m typing on an open notepad. sadly, my typing speed has slowed to 90 wpm down from my top of 120. i did pretty well though. some of the juror numbers were hard to hear and they all spoke very quickly on the last row.
I envy and admire you guys doing this. I’m working as I watch and can only listen and peek a little.
Thanks so much faux – I’m supposedly working today and watching on my iPhone. I hope I don’t fall off a ladder distracted. Grateful to everyone who helps keep us all advised but especially those who put in the effort to organize and explain !
what site/app are you using on iphone? everytime i try using the wild abt trial app i get problems finding the live stream..
seems i can usally get it going into a browser than pulling their website, but not straight from the app..annoying.
i didn’t have problems when it first started or with the jodi airyass trial..
shannon~ there’s a free zimmerman app run by channel 6.
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thanks C, i’m gonna check it out, but i heard it’s called the *Zimmerman* app.
and i can’t have that name on my freakin phone having to look at it all the time…
childish?… yup 🙂 lolol
shannon~ you BAD! Yeah, I intend to delete as soon as the trial is over. I like that it has no commercials.
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faux mccoy~ “What an addict”… who? You?
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yes ma’am. guilty as charged 🙂 i cannot help but to take dictation when the opportunity presents itself. comparing these notes with others will be the interesting part.
faux mccoy~ does dictation do capial letters? ( 🙂 )
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Thankful for the recess!
The Mexican origin US citizen, was shy or apprehensive about telling his nationality for some reason.
Got a recording of the whole morning, can review later if that was successful for anyone needing review.
This procedure varies a bit from the procedure I described. Instead of alternating per individual, looks like they are going to alternate as to questioning the group the group.
When recess was called just now, it doesn’t appear that the Defendant turns AT ALL to look at his family seated right behind him. what gives?
Is Robert Jr. in court today? I didn’t notice him in recent days, either, but he was there in the beginning.
noticed MOM looking at the reporters before things started, and RS was there, and she gave him a quick smile
I don’t think any of them get along particularly well, except Fogen and his sis, and the family support and missives have all been PR. “Doth protest too much” as the saying goes.
They are a bunch of dysfunctional phony-baloneys trying to create an appearance of solidarity for fund-raising purposes — yet failing.
Fogen: “Look, Ma, no hands … thanks for coming to my murder trial” 🙂
T.O.~ Their body language is what gives away the lie. They DON’T even like each other. NO eye contact, no smiles, no shoulder sqeezes for reassurance. NOTHING.
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15 minute recess. Resume at 11:35 am EDT
competitive barbecuer?
as funny as this assembly is
I feel for the Martins who must endure this break in decorum
They might find this so much less offensive than what’s in some of their heads, or some of the prior individual voir dire ideas and opinions that were so hurtful.
I’m sure they understand the anxiety for jurors too, and breaking the ice isn’t a bad thing, but agree, hard to hear people laughing about things, but at least it was not about Trayvon.
Several people lost spouses early on, one at one year of marriage with a young daughter. So that brings some reality to the jury.
I hear you
I don’t know Tzar. I have seen both the Martins smile in interviews and it is important that both they and the jurors feel comfortable and can at time lose sight of the tragedy around and making light fun and comments is a way to ease tension.
I hear you too
and I am glad that they are smiling
I agree, and am glad their attorneys will be there. By the end of this case they will have a case against the city of Sanford for the shoddy, unacceptable police work. GZ was allowed to wash his hands in the very police station, for gosh sakes! Its a lawsuit waiting to happen.
@cielo62 u right, fat-so stays stone . ever since o’dummy passed up the immunity hearing , fatty’s been dope up . he could be on some street drugs mix’s with med’s . and the funny thing about is the defense along with the media talks about trayvon’s small drug use yet zimmerman stays high ! . right on national tv . in front of every one . the jury, the judge , the police . they talked about that bullsh#t mma with trayvon ,yet zimmerman was in a gym , a professional gym! i tell u , i seen this before many times . this dose not surprise me. tray was just a child . zimmerman is a very complicated wuss. and with the media behind him , he will never be wrong . i mean, the professor pretty much did a hella’va job on the dufense make beleave evidence . but notice u really heard nothin about gz being in an actual fight club. lol lol . these people are funny.
We have not heard anything other than he has a membership because Bdlr has not released it and we will have to wait for the details until it is introduced in court.
Not feeling it for that last guy…
I’m not feeling it from most of them. I like about 5-6 , I’m sure MOM will try to eliminate those and get the ones who claim to know very little.
In your teens and twenties, I can understand not knowing much about it. But case like this in your backyard at age 40’s-50’s-60’s you know what’s going on.
Exactly….. I hope Bernie weeds out the older people. (and I am a 50 year old saying this)
i think the age divide in this specific geographical area is as pronounced as the racial divide regarding this case.
Some of you are mentioning about the older Floridians, isn’t that why he is asking if they belong to organizations… would it organizations such as the radical ones? A lot of the radical racist groups are secret so they won’t admit to those. I would be leery of those who belong to deep rooted southern churches.
In the UK a lot of older retired people give back to the community by doing voluntary work for charities to do with kids, animals, disabled, youths, environment, minorities, elderly and infirm, etc. so I imagined those were the kind of “organizations” the question was referring to.
In the Southern United States, I think of it as the first 13 British colonies who brought slavery in the United States. From the Civil War radical racist group was born called the KKK from the then others developed starting in Louisiana 1865. Florida is one of the first 13 colonies. Leaders of church’s and community organizations belong to these groups and still exist to this day. But today they are trying to merge into one group called the Sovereign Citizen group. We have it here in Colorado.
Smokeegyrl~ Florida was NOT one of the original 13 colonies. It stopped with South Carolina.
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you are right… because it was owned by Spain.. I am going to fire my teacher. It was later bought from Spain.. thank you for the correction.
smokeegyrl~ Don’t fire a fellow teacher! Just tell him to get remedial US History.
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I should’ve known better because I am looking at my lineage history right now… and one of my ancestors landed in Florida from Spain. grrrrr at myself.
cielo says
georgia too, if i am not horribly mistaken, teach 😉
H-7 is an NRA instructor.
Interesting. The NRA has kept their distance from Fogen’s case.
That doesn’t make him an activist. Just a qualified firearms instructor.
NRA realized early on Fogen was not gonna be their poster boy.
They sure have, big time.
OMGosh he gots to go.
Had to look that one up. Never would imagine one could making money on firearm safety.
Boyd~ They charge to teach the CCW classes, anywhere from $50 – $75 per person.
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I think Fogen has done more harm than good for the NRA. Responsible gun ownership doesn’t involve shooting unarmed teenagers. Not sure what I think about the NRA guy… could go either way.
Interesting! For SURE KNOWS that gz was dead wrong about his gun use that night!
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Being a NRA instructor shouldn’t be an automatic “get rid of him”. I am a NRA certified Rifle, Shotgun, Pistol, Home Safety Instructor and I don’t believe GZ. He was irresponsible in his actions and the carrying of his gun.
The NRA does not support GZ.
towerflower~ exactly! Actually, it’s folks like you, MMP, Racer , Pirhana Mom and a few others that illustrate quite nicely that responsible gun owners DO NOT support murder. BTW, thanks for that lesson. 🙂
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Generally speaking, I don’t think the prosecution would want a NRA instructor in this case. I base this on the many pro-SYG posters on another site whom all seem to be bending over backwards to believe GZ’s story.
Professional juror almost.
I remember this guy’s voice – we liked him yesterday, no?
straggling way behind (not looking for an address – yesterday wore me out). Anything juicy? They seem to be asking individual questions, one after another , ,
At beginning it took longer each “interview” now Bernie’s got it like on a conveyer belt !
Yes, he’s making my head spin!
Damnit, cameraman! Get a shot of Rene while this guy is talking!
Probably his son works for Apple.
I’m wary of older people. I think the older population harbors more racism. I’m not feeling good about this lady.
I’d like a jury of trayvon martins peers
I hope that’s unfair….depends on alot of things. Maybe it’s more true in Fla, surely do not know.
I moved to Florida from Ohio. I have been disappointed in the amount of racism I see down here. It’s more prevalent in the south, and especially with the older people I know… maybe central FL is better, I’m in the NW area not far from Alabama.
Central and S. FL were not much better in racist terms when I lived in FL in 1990-91.
@twosides- my biggest concern with this trial is that there is too much racism in Florida. I’ve been shocked by it actually.
Chi1224 — In South Florida, we call the Panhandle the Redneck Riviera! Must say those sugary sands of Destin and South Walton beat coarser stuff down here.
chi….I lived in Central Florida my entire life, except for a stint in the military. I think the racism is based on 2 things….1 with age 2 the way a person was raised. My mother has very warped views of some races and she is in her mid 80s, I found myself apologizing quite frequently for my mother’s words…..sometimes she doesn’t realize that times have changed and that some of her words can be viewed as very racist.
I also worked with a guy who moved here from GA and he had a racist view of people and a sexist view on women.
Yeah, older Floridians concern me too.
When we think of Florida many of us think of bikinis, beaches of buffed bodies and fast cars… But Florida is the South filled Swamps, backwoods and older Floridians will possibly been raised in a segregated, isolated areas, by parents who were true Southerners through and through.
This trial has really brought the TRUE Florida to the light for me.
Exactly!
and crap jobs too. does anyone actually make anything down there?
Regarding “does anyone make anything?” Answer:no. Everything is made in china now.
Central FL also seems very racist to me – originally from Boston. Also, I notice how much black crime is highlighted on news (mug shots every day of blacks and Hispanics & no where near as frequently as whites). IMO, tv news coverage on GZ case has been extremely biased against TM & clips of some juror’s answers are also showing bias.
On the other hand, sometimes people recant as they get older. My mother was pretty bigoted and lost it by the time she was in her 60s.
A mathematician could be useful too to be able to calculate the “Anything is possible, but what GZ says is impossible” angle of the deliberations.
P67 sure wasn’t hiding anything in his first interview! Since he wants to keep some things private, is wondering what he has to hide. Acting very skeptical of this process.
Beer, lmao.
I was drinking something when BDLR said how P-67 was looking forward to serving and he said “I Was”…. CTFU , liquids all over the keyboard!
bwa ha ha ha ha ha
I wonder why P-67 wants to be questioned in private… I think his spouse or someone close to him may be here illegally and he does not want to bring unwanted attention to his family.
I had that thought too… I think he might get hardship
I was wondering something similar. And, did you notice GZ looking down, seeming disappointed. He probably wanted that guy on the jury, do you think?
Yup! I don’t think Fogen understands that the jig is up for him getting a tap on the hand and moving on with life.
I am willing bet he thinks P-67 will bond on a cultural level, never thinking about what he said about Mexicans on his FB.
He is such an ass.
I don’t think a lot of Mexicans favor Fogen at this time.
Nope. Remember what Fogen said of Mexicans in his face-book page? Maybe its time for a Mexican to run him over.
b67 is too dense to be on the jury
sorry to hear that faux. that you’re OK and no one got hurt.
thanks, sweetpea
yw fauxie, an thanx for sharing you trip to the mountain a place i only knew of. and wish to have see n.
your in my prayers. jus gettin in from hosp. i’m ok tired and ugh not comfortable.
watching a bit at the end. bernie came off likeable and trusting unlike omar sitting mean muggin. when he get’s up there tomorrow his mean muggin will not make many comfortable, he’ll be intimadating bully, not the lawyer who compassionate towards people involved in the case.
the jurors will see quickly that omara and west is disrespectful to Judge Nelson. jurors will see they will lie and contrive the evidence. that’s not going to help their case or make what they say believeable to the jurors.
jurors are not gullible fools like defense think believe and will try to get away with. it’ll bit them and hurt, even if there are a couple who supporter them. especially with strong supporting evidence defense is lying and others those couple jurors are not and will not go down in history as fools.
and that dam chair fogen is in will not fool the jurors, they only symphathy the will have will be for the chair.
excuse any typos, ugh
here this will make you smile,
Fogen leaned back in his chair
Listening to Voir Dire
It snapped an popped in mid air
Hitting the floor he cried out in a gasp
Oww that hurt my fat azz
@ic2
am just finding your kind notes and delightful limerick! thank you so much. i am way behind on reading backlogs here, have not been up to my usual ways yet, but we both will be and soon!
Lol glad to know I began to wonder was it that bad. I’ve had a few rough day’s but each day I’m getting stronger. I’m relieved your okay and too will be better.
“I could talk about it all day” — one-arm pull-up guy.
Well, a sequestered jury needs a variety of topics to cover, since in theory the case can’t be discussed among until deliberations.
This PJ could be useful in seeing through and debunking Fogen’s MMA nonsense.
I agree.
I feel for this guy. It would be hard to be questioned with such a huge audience.
Absolutely but did you hear the women after is a surgical assistant… one to debunk the “fight”, the other to debunk the “injuries”. Must keep track on them to see if they get in.
E-13 is the surgical assistant in the OR and could reasonably be expected to recognize GZ lied about his wounds.
I concur Professor… so hope she gets in !
Surgical assistant on the jury sounds good too, with the arm wrestler pretty much everything covered.
gbrbsb~ anyone with a medical background will enlighten the jurors about the “seriousness” of gzs baby head wounds.
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That’s what I thought Cielo, but I also thought the arm wrestler might just know a bit more than average about arm locks even if he doesn’t practice them himself.
Anyone else think he sounds a good one to have on the jury with his arm wrestling.
*raises hand*
Did you see Zimmerman smiling about arm wrestler?
Phi Beta Kappa arm-wrestling maintenance man!
Haven’t time to read it all now but just glanced through Wikipedia’s description of Phi Beta Kappa and if I’m getting it right, (never heard of them before) he sounds pretty much impeachable !
😀
Phi beta kappa is an extremely prestigious honor society that college students can be elected to. Most colleges don’t have a chapter. You get a gold key. Sonia Sotomayor was PBK from Princeton. Surprising that this guy is a maintenance man!
I do, depending on his other attributes.
Whonoze just noted he’s a member of “Phi Beta Kappa” which I don’t know if a US thing but just a glance on Wikipedia seems a good thing… or am I goofing here ?
If he’s 70 and doing one arm push ups his physical ones at least can’t be bad. ; – )
Why is Judge Nelson allowing the use of cell phones and tablets in the court room? I’ve noticed MOM texting on his during the hearings and also several times during the jury selection. What I do not understand is with most cell phones having cameras on them today, what is preventing someone from taking a photo of a prospective member of the jury? Is the “Honor System” in use? If so, wow, MOM and West have no honor so the system is already compromised…
Good point.
I actually have a bad feeling in my gut about this process and the way it is playing out! I think MOM and West are paying more attention to this site and other pro justice blogs than many people realize, case in point, after it was mentioned here on this blog that Fogen was not paying attention to the members of the jury during the interviews, the next morning he came in and made a point of showing great interest, however fake it might have been…
crazy~ you KNOW they read this blog. MOM and West hope to get some decent logical advice here, instead of the insanity from TCTH.
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@C-1946, that’s a good point. I recall reading someone mentioning giggling and unprofessional behavior by the interns, then the next day someone noting their behavior had ceased in that particular manner.
Parents of teens seems like a good thing
Just got up, Good morning all, I see the Fogen Family in the courtroom! and why is Fogen all slouched in the chair? He is looking all sad this morning… not laughing or smirking with the jurors this morning. Why are they facing the PJ’s, is this something they do. Never seen this in Colorado.
Keep in mind GZ likely his the passport/ hidden money issues from his dad and mom while they put up their HOME to help him make bond. His family is making a show of support but the strain has to be great here
I betcha Fogen’s been the source of shame in his family too many times to count.
Is that Fogen’s sister sitting next to Gladys?
Is that Gladys’s mom on the other side of Sr.?
NO. They don’t shame easy.
THey do “Blame” instead of “Shame.”
Yes, Gracie and Glady’s are in the courtroom.
I wonder what meds Fogen takes? He won’t be able to get tranquilizers or any “feel good” meds in prison.
On his medical report it listed Temazepam 30mg 3 x day
Thanks. He won’t be able to get that in prison. If he gets debilitating insomnia the best he will get is some old anti-depressant that has drowsiness as a side effect, but no benzo drugs like Temazepam.
If you look up dosages you get some interesting information like it gives you a feeling of well being. It is generally prescribed for insomnia.
The Temazepam was 30 mg at bedtime as of 2/27/12 (not three times per day, which would be 90 mg daily and a huge amount).
@chi1224 – Or maybe he’d just get Benadryl for insomnia in prison?
groans~ Benadryl works differently on different people. It gives ME heart palpitations! Last time I took children’s Benadryl, it said 1-3 teaspoons for adults. I took 2 and I swear I thought I was having a heart attack.
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Daughter and myself are ADHD. Benadryl doesn’t cause any drowsiness. Heck, my kid at age 2 needed to be sedated for a VCUG procedure and was given dose of chloral hydrate. They said to put her in stroller as she would be knocked out before we got downstairs to the exam room. HA! She ran down to the elavator, skipped to the exam room, proceeded to climb over everything…all the while, the nurse swearing that she wasn’t given any sedation. True ADHD people are affected differently by stimulants and depressants. Works totally opposite sometimes.
Lynn~ So THAT’S why Bendadryl makes my heart race! Yep, adult ADHD here. NOT so pronounced to need meds, but enough to notice.
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Shellie made sure he got his meds when he was locked up before.
She may have gotten away with that when he was in jail, she would NEVER get away with it in state prison. In fact if she tried she would end up with very serious charges. (I used to work as a nurse in a state prison)
Fogen “lady killer” is hitting the female jurors with the bedroom eyes…no seriously he is falling asleep as he stares then down.
You know if they keep him drugged up through out trial the jurors may think he was drugged up the night he killed Trayvon. Oh that’s right he was! I do not think it is a smart move by the defense. I could be wrong but it seems like a really bad I idea.
Please, tzar. Bedroom eyes? Yuck. You just gave me a little stomach ache at the thought.
IKR! That was WRONG on so many levels…
Bedroom eyes? Fogen? I thought they were woodshed eyes!
Oh Bernie, how do you have grandkids if you don’t have any kids !
adopted?
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Don’t know in the US, Cielo, but in Europe adopting the same as “having” children. Adopted kids have the same rights as “own” children. Even more evident Spain, where you are obliged by law to leave a third of any inheritance between your children, and adopted and biological children count the same as those born to them.
child could have died, leaving children for grandparent to raise is only thing i thought of.
That would be possible but then when Bernie asked if she had any I would have thought she would have said she had but deceased.
It just seemed to me Bernie just got carried away on his conveyor belt witness interviewing which made me smile.
Somehow I like, or at least can relate, to people who rescue animals.
Me too… anything vulnerable !
Crane~ I did animal rescue for about 10 years. Had to stop; it burns you out. Yesterday I went heavy-handed on a FB statement by the AKC (American Kennel Club) about keeping their “rights” to breed. Yeah,” if everybody spayed and neutered, you’d only have mechanical dogs to hug.” I blasted them with the stats of how many are needlessly killed each day in animal “shelters”, how many puppy mills and backyard breeders are arrested for animal cruelty, I just get SO INFLAMED!! One time, my partner and I drove all the way to Ohio to rescue just ONE CAT and bring it to its forever home in Houston. I’ve driven dozens of kittens to different places in hopes of finding homes for them all. In other words, DON’T get me started! Unfortunately, I CAN believe that a cop told gz to get a gun. There are stories here every couple of months of cops shooting strays for target practice, out in the smaller hick towns and redneck areas.
OT!! Forgive me!! (Crane, this is your fault, y’know)
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Cielo62, we have a dog across the road who lives on a chain, she just mothered 10 pups by a beautiful old bulldog who wears a collar but showed up about a year & a half ago, according to one neighbor, she also told me he fathered 3 other litters up & down the road this spring. No one has been able to catch him.
vickie~ and that’s 10 mutts that will be euthanized if they don’t find homes. 😦 No doubt about it; sometimes I REALLY hate people.
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LOL! Did you hear that! Did not enjoy during jury duty! One day and not sequestered!
Cielo, I could have sworn he said he DID enjoy it & when Bernie said something to the Jury like, see this fella, he clarified it was only one day.
This guy sounds okay to me
Bernie is silly. Jurors might like his. Friendly,
Ooops… sounds intriguing what you were going to say !
lmao meant him…. Left that wide open didn’t I?
Well, certainly was cryptic !
She won’t like the fact he got a gun because of a dog!
Fogen looks like he is about to fall asleep. I wonder if he is medicated?
Yes, he’s been medicated the entire time, ever since he gave up SYG.
The real question is that since he got in trouble, what substances had he been forced to curtail? Did he have steroids from the fight club and was he a methamphetamine user previously? Something kept him from gaining 100 plus pounds previously.
He’s probably added anti-depressants to the mix. A new medication could also be an appetite stimulant. Drs. don’t always pay attention to this and don’t warn the patient to watch their food intake.
She’s done
she is concerned about the media and Zimmerman’s rights
she is definitely anti-prosecution
Concur x 2.
I agree. I’m glad she said that at the end and it seems Bernie caught it.
yup
even threw in a little jab at how “the media will be writing about b12”
F Trayvon’s rights.
Bye!
GZ had the right to remain silent. Good thing he is an idiot who thought he could lie his way out of anything.
Did she just say something about Fogen’s “rights”??
I don’t like her tone
Me neither. She sounds unconcerned.
She is concerned about Zimmerman’s rights…you know the guy it took millions of protesters just to get him arrested for killing an unarmed fleeing kid, yeah that guy’s rights…
Hey that means a million people conspired to railroad him, doesn’t it? 😉
b12
volunteers at moose lodge and church
Oh, oh 😦
yup, same thing I said
This woman doesn’t seem happy to be there. How does a juror’s willingness to serve affect how they work as a team in finding a verdict?
Badly if the film “Twelve angry men” (1957, Sidney Lumet) is to go by although albeit Henry Fonda did in the end convince the other 11 to his way of thinking !
Jokes apart, I’m sure it can’t be happy making if has 8 kids at home, the “organisation” she referred to, 7 under 18.
I can’t imagine why she didn’t get a hardship.
I thought the same thing… maybe she still has a chance they will.
Shoot–If I was her, I would be HOPING to get on the jury and be sequestered. Nice break!
Yes, I can imagine that too… but then I would think of the house in a mess and the avalanche of problems unresolved building up just waiting for my return and I think maybe best to stay home !
She was divorced Bernie, not widowed !
Fogen doesn’t look so chipper this morning. I guess shit just got real for him.
Yup and It’s about dame time!
Come Monday, it they seat this jury by the end of this week… Shit is going to get even more real!
Can we assume the young Latin looking women with long brown hair next to GZ’s mother is family… sister or cousin ?
sister
Ah, thought we had never seen a pic of her before unless one very blurry pic?
They are getting bold, appearing in public with faces uncovered. Do they have a security detail?
I thought they were in hiding, in fear for their lives
where is the black horde with the torches and pitchforks?
Tzar~ Uh, I hear the Black Horde got lost on the interstate. They’ll be there as soon as they can set up their GPS “NeverLost” system.
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Gattdamnitt, we lose more lack hordes that way….
Same puckery little mouth as Fogen. These offspring don’t look anything like Boobles Senior.
Sister looks like Fogen with a long hair wig on.
Bernie is turning on the charisma
he’s a charmer, alright!
Applaud, Bernie. Applaud. You Are A True Gate Keeper. A Formidable Defender of the Nation.
do some of these folks know shellie? initials SZ mentioned twice. hmmmmmm
yup
Maybe she once did their hair?
This link has been working great for me.
http://www.wtsp.com/common/v5/pages/vpcvideo/videoplayer_popout.aspx?videoID=2384667563001&logo=http://www.gannett-tv.com/images/logos/WTSP_Logo.png&title=George%20Zimmerman%20Trial:%20Jury%20Selection%20Begins&source=WTSP
Good morning everyone!
BDLR so wants to do opening statements.
I can’t wait until he does opening statements. It can’t come soon enough.
Several pjs seem to know Shellie Zimmerman, or a witness who shares her initials.
“recognize name” not “know”
Good morning everyone. I am in and out for a while, and therefore thankful to the readers, who update the thread so well!
so far 2 jurors recognize 3 witnesses names… Is that a automatic STRIKE?
Doesn’t appear to be as JN said the attorneys would ask them some questions about it so presumably will depend on a series of factors.
Thank you!!! Imma rookie who needs all the help she can get..
No.
Thank You!!!
Wow… is Sanford that small a world ?
The defendants gigantic “bodyguard” sure moves fast for his size.
Happy HUMP DAY, My peoples!!!! LETS GET READY TO RUMBLE!!!!!!!
Please … any Tums or Alka-Seltzer in the house?
Rene Stutzman@renestutzman27m
O’Mara kisses #Zimmerman’s wife, mamma good morning during unexpected break. #Trayvon
*threw up in my mouth a little bit*
CU!!!!
He works hard for his money… So hard for it honey!
YUK!
Eeeeew!
I’m MOS here. Does anyone have sound?
Best sound and clearest pic for me is
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbcnews.com/52117880/
Thanks … for me, too.
Thanks, although I’m still not getting sound. Must be me. Sigh.
D’oh. The cat had knocked over the speakers last night and the power button got turned off. Geez.
Great;) She was only trying to help.
Is that Fogen’s mumsy chawing away on the Juicy Fruit?
I had a teacher who would say “Chewing gum is rude and ill-bred…” Maybe mama needs a lesson.
To be fair, I noticed that Sybrina was chewing away yesterday, too. If I were in her shoes, I’d be chewing nails – the real thing, not mine.
I want to see his face not his parents!
seating arrangement is awkward. body language between zim seniors is telling – pappa with back toward gladys.
seriously I noticed that
Gladys looks mean.
Gladys IS mean.
It shows on her face.
WFTV reporting Frye hearing moved from today @4 to tomorrow @2.
Frye tomorrow @ 2
in here
follow
I recommend you make a list of the general questions asked on a notepad and record the PJ numbers who answer affirmatively.
Then you can add that information to your chart on a per PJ basis.
G-47: Young white male assistant restaurant manager says Fogen appears to be “stuck in the worst situation” possible. KEEP FOR NOW
On that one- I hope he goes. Fogen isn’t stuck in a “situation”, sounds to me like this guy has already sanitized the murder. It’s a murder, a life was taken…. not a “situation”.
That’s just my take. I could be wrong. One thing I know about jurors from when I did jury duty is first impressions can be very wrong.
It’s hard to know what he meant by “worst situation possible”. Could mean he thinks GZ will most likely be found guilty and has to sit through all this waiting for the bad news. Or, he could mean something else.
Brief recess.
Good morning everyone.
Goede Morgen, Amsterdam.
Well thank you Searching Mind.
Shellie looks younger with the curly-do. Why would I notice that?
She looks really tense today.
I think she is tense because his parents are with her.
Don’t forget she hid six figures of money from RZ senior while he was putting up his house for bond
She’s presenting her new image, preparing for her divorce.
Although I haven’t seen any marriage proposals directed at Shellie like Casey and Jodi received.
GZ is seated facing the jury box.
I noticed that too. Is that so he can see which pj’s raise their hands? Will the jury consultant have more input in this part, or the same as with the individual dires?
I think it’s so defense counsel and defendant can see them and they can see him.
Jury consultant has the same role: Observe and advise.
The tables are rearranged.
I noticed that too. I thought maybe the cameras are filming from a different angle today.
Good morning everyone!
The saga of How The West was Lost, and The Adventures of Curious George continue…
Good morning. Wouldn’t associate GZ with that cute little children’s book character!
LOL! Very clever!
Did anyone else see his Dad and Mom walk in with Shellie? Maybe I have lost my mind already.
Shellie watch request: what’s the strategy here and does she have a bodyguard today? Has she made eye contact with GZ or not ? No one reports seeing this besides Rene S from the Orlando Sentinel
Willis~ and you know how “trustworthy” She is!
I’d trust her about as far as I could make GZ “stumble” were I a teenage boy. (Meaning zero feet, not 40.5)
@disappointed
Yes I did, and no you haven’t lost your mind.
One of his sisters is also there, Gracie. Bodyguard is the huge guy that came in with Shellie a couple of days ago.
Court is in session. One juror is late. Will have to wait.
Conference at bench.
Is it that time already? Only 6 am here – and I still have another hour (+) on this job. I so very much wanted to watch all of today. Well, I’ll be back in an hour or so and checking in throughout.
I would love to see opening arguments on Friday but they still have the issue of sanctions motion as well as Mom’s motion to keep State from using the inflamitory words.
I guess I should have said Discovery violation motion.
I’m guessing opening remarks will be Monday just because it means the jurors get a weekend to prepare for sequestration.
Makes sense. Pack bags, load up on mystery novels, snacks, and prepare for Facebook addiction withdrawal.
TO~ LOL! Yes, withdrawal from ALL social media! I get the shakes just THINKING about it!
________________________________
words motion has been dealt with
sanctions is post trial
Sorry to be a pain but, the issue is not settled as Bdlr only agreed not to use certain words during jury selection and Mom asked that they be banned for jury selection and motion to be addressed after jury selection. Unless I missed something, this is what JN said last Monday before the individual Voir Dire began. Please advise if I am wrong.. Confused as always.. Lol
1. you are not a pain
2. I saw an article that said the judge barred certain words
someone will post it shortly I am sure
Here is link to Court 6/10/13 where issue was addressed. http://youtu.be/fU-a3FUBIlo @ 8:45.
His parents are there?
yup
“I do not believe this has ever been done before, so celebrate and learn.”
This is very exciting and thank you Fred for this opportunity. It’s another aspect of tech age meets Law to consider and discuss.
Now, On To Justice.
Score card, get your score card! Can’t keep track of the players without your score card! And I am EVER so grateful there’s on available! Thanks, Trained Observer!
Professor, after considering things over-night (I think that’s called sleeping on it) even I disagree with some of my recommendations. BettyKath, for example, points out I-44 has a know-it-all attitude, that makes me shift him to the Weed Out category.
Onward for all of us, adding today’s insights:
To err is human.
To forgive is against company policy./s
Good morning, TO, thanks for your roster with notes to keep or not,
Noticed with H-6:
Young white male who heard call Fogen made to cops before shooting. “He sounded like he was concerned for his neighborhood.” TRY TO WEED OUT
From a news reporter, here’s this added comment of ‘now balanced’. Wonder what he’s really saying here about his views and possible early siding with the concerned NW person looking after his neighborhood..
“Early media coveraged favored Trayvon, now balanced”
Yes, thank you for the excellent list TO! 🙂
I didn’t thank you for the list. You did a great job of summarizing each of them. Thank you.
Yeah, I44 was on my “OUT” list.I did not like the undertones in his answers.
@Trained Observer
Thank you for compiling your list of picks for us.
things to keep in mind today —
the prospective jurors we ‘like’ will need to be completely OK with florida’s gun laws and obviously the possibility of self defense. we know the defense will be grilling perceived liberals mercilessly on these areas and we don’t want to lose one for cause, giving the defense a freebie.
Having an opinion is “cause?”
very well could be, depending on the opinion – fred can enlighten us more
We’ll soon find out I guess. Could be the only serious airing of views this case has actually raised sadly.
Those SYG laws need to be challenged in higher courts- already the statistics show they allow white people to shoot minorities and walk more often.
A young teenager in Miami, FL just won his SYG case. He shot a killed a deaf mute who stole his rave runner. The suspect was returning to the home after he stole it, and was signing (language) to the victim. However, the victim thought he had a gun and shot him.
Interesting thing about this case, the rave runner was tied to a dock, and the mother lied when she called 911 and said she shot the suspect. So this young defendant got to keep his rave runner and kill someone over a piece of property.
The SYG really does need some serious revisions. By the way, both parties involved all appear to be hispanic.
That opens the door for the prosecution to challenge jurors who take the opposite view. I don’t think this issue will come up.
dave, i have no doubt that these folks will be pressured to speak on their feelings of guns. we shall see.
Faux, do you or anyone else happen to know who the dark-haired guy with glasses is who is sitting between West & O’Mara? I haven’t been following the jury selection on TV, but here instead, so I’m not familiar with this new face. Do you or anyone know? Thanks!
abbyj~ I believe that is Hirschorn, the jury consultant. Mr. “I charge $10,000 a day”.
________________________________
From this morning’s OS: Florida man gets life for shooting neighbor over barking dogs. (Bet Fogen likely finds this unsettling … )
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-barking-dogs-murder-20130619,0,5170
good to know! thanks for posting, TO.
Link faulty — but here it is:
MCT REGIONAL NEWS
8:05 a.m. EDT, June 19, 2013
A 66-year-old Flagler Beach man convicted of shooting and killing a neighbor who didn’t like his barking dogs was sentenced to life in prison Tuesday.
Paul Miller told police that Dana Mulhall, his 52-year-old neighbor on South Flagler Avenue, had shouted profane words at him months earlier. Then on March 14 he said he heard Mulhall cursing his dogs, so he went outside with a 9mm handgun in his back pocket, according to an arrest report.
Mulhall continued to curse and shook the fence. Miller told police that Mulhall said he had a gun and thought he was reaching for it, the report said.
He was shot five times, in what witnesses described as a “slow” and “methodical” way. Mulhall was unarmed.
Miller was convicted of second-degree murder in May.
GOOD! Yeah, it’s good to have fogen sweat even more! How ridiculous can one get? Killing a person over barking dogs?? WTF?
Why not? they’re more annoying than loud music in a car, aren’t they? someone used that for an excuse not long ago………….
I hope he does… I wish him nothing but distress and misery.
This happened real close to me. They have argued over the dogs before. Said that when his neighbor put his hand behind his back he thought he was going for a gun and pulled his and fired, and fired, and fired, and fired, and fired; with 2 shots hitting his neighbor in the back as he tried to get back to his home. Said he was in fear of his life from his unarmed neighbor. They never laid a hand on the other and never crossed into the other’s property. The State had to hire an interpreter for the defense. The shooter is from the hills of TN and they couldn’t understand his southern accent or the meaning of some phrases like when he said to 911 that “he asked for it”.
He also claimed SYG but lost out early on. He is going to spend the rest of his life in prison. OS is a little behind if it was in this morning’s paper since they finished the trial a couple of weeks ago.
Verdict came in last month. Sentence just came down.
WTF? was that some *creative* defense tactic to get the jury to believe the killer didn’t actually Mean “he asked for it” when he said “he asked for it”?
Kinda like “are you following him?” ” yes”, really means “i was just going in the same direction”.
how do you have am interpreter for Tennessee talk??
TO, I hope Fogen does find it unsettling, and that he breaks out in a cold sweat and a full-blown panic attack. This fiction that Fogen was “trying to protect the neighborhood” is such total crap. If he had genuine concern for the HOA and the residents, then he would have followed their rules to the letter.
Instead, he took everything in his own hands (gun included), using the imprimatur of the “Neighborhood Watch” position to give himself intrusive access and abusive authority. He never had the well-being of the residents at heart.
We know this, absolutely confirmed, from the many complaints of the homeowners themselves. They were tired of his bullying and interrogations and his endless insinuations into their private lives. Reporting garage doors open. Reporting any black male who happened to be in the neighborhood as “suspicious,” even if he was 9 years old. Hounding neighbors about their private lives. NO, he was a full-fledged bully who used the NW position as a way to give himself authority to harass and intimidate.
It keeps coming to my mind: how much effort would it have taken for Fogen to say to Martin, “I’m a member of the Neighborhood Watch here. May I help you?” Of course he didn’t say it, because he was desperate for a different outcome. He wanted to create a confrontation so that he could execute Trayvon. And he did, possibly with accomplices, and with malice aforethought. Fogen is a menace, a serial offender, and too dangerous to be set free ever. The sooner he is in prison for life, the better for us all.
Since I have been able to see very little of the actual process, I will enjoy seeing those of you who have seen it come to your conclusions about the jury pool.
alpha! (i hope)
up early in california, body aching from a car accident yesterday (all people OK, SUV my dad gave me before he died quite mangled). nerves somewhat shattered, hoping vehicle is not totaled. 😦
OH, so sorry to hear that! Good luck.
Faux … Relieved you’re OK, but keep watch on yourself. Sometimes minor or seemingly undetectable injuries can escalate.
Glad your okay. I assume southern Cal from the photo
@boyd — thanks. i’m in far northern CA, the lovely places that most folks are completely unaware and it’s gorgeous here.
Glad you’re OK. Take care of yourself today.
Glad you are ok. 😉
Take care of yourself. Hope all will be okay – including you.
Whew! Glad you are all ok!
I’m glad you’re all okay, but yikes. The insurance companies “total” cars without batting an eye. But, you might be able to keep it anyway. Very gentle hug to you this morning.
OMG, sorry to hear that, so sorry. Glad you are okay.
Feel better.
I am sorry to hear that. I’m glad you didn’t get any serious injuries.
Take heart, Fauxy. Hugs.
Fauxmccoy, I’m thankful you’re alright. Please take care of yourself.
thank you all for your well wishes ❤
Cars suck. Glad you are okay and one less SUV is out there polluting the atmosphere. Time for that electric car now?
@willis — appreciate the sentiment. this vehicle gets less than 5k miles on it in a year — i have rugged terrain to get through to get almost anywhere. we certainly have an economy car for all of our local needs. the suv works well for me because of disability and meant a lot as a parting gift from my father.
I’m glad it wasn’t worse. If you haven’t, I’d reccommend seeing a doctor both for medical and legal reasons. I hope you recover quickly.
can replace the vehicle, you not so much
Glad you and everyone okay. Take care of yourself.
I am very sorry to hear that. I so glad you are okay, fauxmccoy.
May I suggest that you wear a soft neck support for awhile just to be on the safe side.
Take care and get a lot of rest.
OH NO! Be sure to NOT do a Zimmerman; get yourself checked over! Hope you are OK and car can be restored.
Glad to hear everyone is OK Faux… take care of yourself and don’t over do it.
I love N Cal. Was in San Fran two years ago on Vacation. I Hit Yosemite and Marin County, etc. And you got Football teams lol!
I’m from the Philly area, but California is the best place in the US But the bridges in SF freaked me out a bit.
sucks to lose a car, I brought a new car last year and 4 months ago some clown hit it during the night and drove off while I was sleep. I’ll never buy a new car again.
I am so sorry; that is scary stuff. Take care of yourself and be sure you are OK.
sorry to hear you were in an accident… I know you feel bad about the car because it is one your dad gave you. But know he would want you to be okay… I’m glad you are okay… Stay okay!
Feel better soon, I’m glad everyone is ok.
just a thought… if they do total your SUV, ask to see if you can keep a part of the SUV and explain why.
Oh no fauxmccoy! Upsetting for sure. Take care of yourself today!
So glad you’re okay! So sorry about your misfortune!
So glad to hear you’re okay. Take it easy today, and feel better soon.
We all appreciate your dedication to this trial.
Sending good wishes your way Fauxmccoy.
Glad to hear everyone is okay and hope you feel better soon.
not fauxy…been there before…nerves will get better in time. Praying the car is not totaled. Thinking of you.
Goodness Faux, how frightening for you and the others with you. So glad everyone is ok. If SUV is totaled, maybe you can keep the rearview mirror or something like that for a keepsake. Take care of yourself, and take it easy. (((Hug)))
Sorry to hear this. Happy all are OK. Just watch out for anything that may arise….hell, take a few days off.
Faux, So sorry to hear about the accident. Hope you’re ok. Glad that you’re safe, even if you aching. Very sad to hear about the SUV being wrecked & hope that it’s salvageable. Thinking of you.
I am sorry. But I am glad that you are physically o.k. Hang in there.
Fauxmccoy,
I’m glad that you’re okay. Will keep you in my prayers that you will be blessed with another car. Put some Epsom Salt in your bath water and soak in it. It will help relieve the soreness. your feeling in your body.
I’m sorry to hear that. Still take it easy. Sometimes it takes a little while for injuries to surface. Hoping everything is truly okay.
OMG! I may be bringing up the rear, but please know that I’m sooo glad that you’re ok! And everyone else too, of course. So sorry about your dad’s passing.
So sorry to hear about your accident and I hope you are OK.
A post in place of “following”
B-76: White middle-aged female who says Fogen had an “altercation with the young man. There was a struggle and the gun went off.” TRY TO WEED OUT
She’s not going to have her ideas confirmed at trial, ie. no struggle and no “gun went off”. Likely she’ll be shocked by what she learns at trial. I’d need another objection to go along with strike her.
G-66: Retired white female who cares for toddler grandson and moved to Central Florida in 2011. Saw photos of Fogen injuries and, “I felt sorry for him.” STRIKERAMA
I have to wonder how she will feel when she learns that Trayvon did not cause the injuries she saw?
H-6: Young white male who heard call Fogen made to cops before shooting. “He sounded like he was concerned for his neighborhood.” TRY TO WEED OUT
This one is a toss up, clearly he’s going to learn that gz wasn’t doing what he was doing out of concern for the neighborhood, but was on a mission of his own design. While, on the other hand he should know that NW doesn’t involve chasing people from the neighborhood and certainly not with a firearm.
On the whole it looks like the prosecution has the upper hand.
Thank you Lonnie.
I could see why one might suspect her, but, her assumptions are so poorly based and so easily disproved, I consider them to be “brittle”.
If this is all she has, the trial will quickly disarm her. Nor will she find another cudgel to pick up as a replacement.
That said, she does have a critical thinking problem, if she feels she can have an opinion on such poorly confirmed facts. But in this case, if gz doesn’t take the stand she’ll have no facts at all, assuming she favors him. Or, if he does take the stand, she’ll have no need of any facts.
Even the racist on the jury will feel affronted and insulted by gz’s tale of woe, they’ll vote against him because he affords the no cover at all.