Welcome to Day 7 of Jury Selection in Zimmerman Case

Tuesday, June 18, 2013

Good morning:

We now have a pool of 33 prospective jurors (PJs) passed for cause on the issues of pretrial publicity and hardship. Judge Nelson wants to enlarge the pool to 40 and then switch to group voir dire on other subjects.

There is a slight chance that will happen today, but it is more likely to happen tomorrow, possibly during the morning session.

Here is the updated list of 33 PJs for your scorecard:

1. B-12 F 40s-50s White
2. B-29 F 40s Black
3. B-76 F 50s-60s White
4. B-7 M 40s-50s White
5. B-35 M 40s-50s Black
6. B-37 F 50s White
7. B-51 F 60s-70s White
8. B-55 F 20s E. Indian
9. B-86 F 50s White
10.E-6 F 20s-30s White
11.E-40 F 50s-60s White
12.E-54 M 60s-70s White
13.E-73 F 60s White
14.M-75 F 30s Black
15.B-61 F 20s White
16.B-72 M 20s White/Bi-racial
17.E-22 F 50-60 Black
18.E-13 F 20s White
19.E-28 F 50s-60s White
20.K-80 F 40s-50s White
21.K-95 F 40s-50s White
22.P-67 M 40s-50 Hispanic
23.G-14 F 40s-50s White
24.G-29 F 30s Black
25.G-47 M 20s White
26.G-63 M 20s Mixed
27.G-66 F 50s White
28.G-81 M 30s-40s Black
29.H-6 M 30s-40s White
30.H-7 M
31.H18 M
32.H29 M
33.H35 F

As I have previously described the likely process:

When she gets to 40, she will gather that group together seating the PJs in the jury box, and subsequently the benches, in the order in which they were called and likely instruct them to raise their hands indicating an affirmative answer as she asks a series of questions, pausing to record each PJ’s affirmative answer to each question.

For example, she might ask for a show of hands by each PJ who has been a victim of a crime and write down each PJs number who raises their hand.

After she completes her list of questions, the lawyers, starting with Bernie de la Rionda, will question the first PJ on the list (B12) regarding each question she answered affirmatively. After both lawyers have finished with B12, they will pass or challenge her for cause. If she is excused, she will be replaced in the box by PJ B51 (she is 7th in the order).

This process will be repeated with B51 until she is passed or excused for cause. If she is excused, her seat will be taken by B55. If she is passed, the lawyers will question B29, the PJ in the second seat in the box.

This procedure likely will be followed until 30 PJs have been passed for cause.

Then the lawyers will exercise their peremptory challenges, which is usually done secretly with the lawyers passing back and forth a sheet of paper alternately listing a PJ number until one or both sides exhaust their allotment of peremptory challenges.

If one side accepts the jury of 6 before exhausting their peremptories, they retain the right to use a peremptory challenge to excuse the PJ who replaces a member of the jury struck by their opponent after they accepted the jury.

We have a little less than an hour before court resumes.

Here’s a little video that brought back a lot of memories about what it’s like to be a criminal defense attorney.

Warning: Remove liquids or be prepared to sacrifice your laptop.

Note: The Frye hearing will resume tomorrow at 4 pm with the prosecution’s rebuttal.

Here’s the link to the livestream coverage.


Court resumes at 9 am EDT.

See you in court.

1,166 Responses to Welcome to Day 7 of Jury Selection in Zimmerman Case

  1. fauxmccoy says:

    how come no one finds adam sandler in his red hooded sweatshirt threatening?


    inquiring minds want to know

  2. Sophia33 says:

    How is it possible that they made it to 40? How many jurors did they interview today? They had 33 last night. So they took everyone who was interviewed.

  3. concernedczen says:

    John Phillips (attorney for Jordan Davis’ family) says that a fair jury cannot be found with these 40 people.

    I’m afraid I think the same. Too many blatant bigots were passed through to the 2nd round.

    • cielo62 says:

      All they need is 6. And the prosecution has 10 strikes to weed out the worst. I woulnd’t put too much stock into his pessisim.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        Yep, I agree. I think there is a jury in that pool for a guilty verdict. I think it will be a lot harder for the defense to get an acquittal.

      • @ Cielo62

        I concur.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Especially if at least two are as naive about details and facts as they claim. Once the State starts its rat-a-tat-tat of evidence in response to MOM’s hokem-schmokem, a just verdict should be forthcoming.

      • willisnewton says:

        If there are 16 decent jurors to be had (an open question) then the defense could knock out ten and still leave six. But there has to be six in a row after prosecution exercised its ten peremptories.

      • Sleuth says:


        I agree, and I don’t care how many times that arse-hole keeps looking at me!

        Guess what? I’m looking right back at ’em! Cuz I ain’t afraid of no ghost! 🙂

        • cielo62 says:

          Sleuth~ OH yeah! You got that right! Gz is getting to be as white as a ghost realizing his fate! Everything about him is just plain creepy; his beady little eyes and his whispery pedo voice.

      • Shari says:

        Posting on the internet is frustrating because you can’t detect tone and it’s hard to have a real discussion. I wasn’t blasting anyone. Xena chastised me for attributing words to Mr. Phillips. I decided to go to twitter and give her the exact wording that he used. The “expecting” comment was in response to Xena.

        Tzar made a comment saying people laughing at a 911 parody were wrong. I simply said I noticed something similar here.

        I had no idea that my usage of the word murder would cause a ruckus. I hope it’s all clear now. I have his exact wording and I am not here to change how this community relates to one another. Mr. Leathermen and his wife use colorful language and they probably have no problem with the humor, I have seen Crane use it. I only mentioned the humor because of the laughs from the PJ.

        I am just happy that the trial is near, no more trying the case in the media from M’OM.

        Have a nice evening.

        • Xena says:


          Xena chastised me for attributing words to Mr. Phillips.

          If I wrote anything that you deem chastizing, that happened after I turned a negative into a positive and you then said that the word “murder” that you attributed to John Philip may have been your word.

          Whether you used the word “murder” and Philip did or didn’t has the same result IMO; i.e., GZ is credible when testifying about “murder.” He certainly is not credible when it comes to his statements about “self-defense.”

          What do you find wrong with that?

          I decided to go to twitter and give her the exact wording that he used. The “expecting” comment was in response to Xena.

          That’s not true. You told me to see the comment on Twitter. I Googled for his Twitter and the return was more than 10 pages with the name “John Philip” with various handles.

          I had no idea that my usage of the word murder would cause a ruckus.

          Your use of the word “murder” caused no ruckus. Rather, I think you took exception that I agreed with the word “murder” as opposed to “self-defense.” Remember, it is you who said you may have used the wrong word.

          I have his exact wording ….

          Please post it.

          • Shari says:

            It’s posted in the thread. I’m not computer savvy so instead of a screen shot of the tweet I typed it out for you.

            I’m glad it’s all cleared up. Nice lesson I learned today. Words are powerful. Use them wisely.

          • Xena says:


            It’s posted in the thread. I’m not computer savvy so instead of a screen shot of the tweet I typed it out for you.

            I just did a screen search for your name, reading your comments, and did not find where you typed out/posted the tweet. Also, I receive comments via email, but did not receive any comment that you made that contained the tweet.

            Could you have posted it on another page in the blog rather than replying to my comment?

    • chi1224 says:

      I share your fears, but I am determined to remain hopeful. Sitting in a jury box is not the same as sitting in your normal space. In a jury box you see yourself as doing one of the most serious jobs you could be doing on a moral level, and there is an intense desire to do the right thing. At least that was my experience as a juror. In this case the RIGHT thing is justice for the child that was murdered.

    • ladystclaire says:

      @Concerned, I don’t hold out to much hope that they will find one either. that thought has been on my mind for a long time. it’s real shameful, that some in this country can see fit to treat this kid and his family in such a harsh manner. but, when something like this happens to one of their own, THEY LOOK FOR SYMPATHY FROM THE MASSES AND, THEY BELIEVE THEY ARE ENTITLED TO SUCH.

    • Shari says:

      Phillips also thinks that Fogen will be his own best witness. He said Fogen in his view was very credible in his telling of the murder.

      • cielo62 says:

        Shari~ Then Phillips is an absolute idiot or living with his head in the sand. CREDIBLE? With at leat 5 different stories ALL RECORDED? Which one does he think is “credible?” Do yourself a favor; ditch Phillips and all his crap.

        • Xena says:

          Credible in telling of the murder

          I agree. Not credible at all in the telling of killing in self-defense. 😉

          • Shari says:

            I don’t want to put words in his mouth. I used the word murder. You can look up his tweets. He is John Phillips attorney for the mother of the black child who was killed for playing loud music by the drunk wedding attendee.

          • Xena says:

            @Shari. I don’t have a Twitter account and when I Googled John Phillips and Twitter, more than 10 pages returned with various handles along with the name.

            If you paraphrased what he said, you should have said so. You might want to go back to your source in order to quote him verbatim so that there’s no misunderstanding.

          • cielo62 says:

            Xena~ John M. Phillips. I looked up under Dunn Murder. OR, have more fun and google John Phillip Souza!


          • Xena says:

            @cielo62. Yeah — Google tried defaulting to John Phillip Souza.

            I know of attorney Philip who is representing Jordan Davis’ parents. He contributes to a blog and I’ve kept up with his postings. Dunn’s trial is scheduled to begin in October. But I still don’t have a Twitter account and don’t see why we should be expected to verify a statement purportedly stated by anyone when it’s “quoted” here.

          • Shari says:

            You seem very offended by my error. I’m not sure what you want me to say. I clarified it for you. I am not a reporter and I don’t think my blog comment was slanderous. I don’t expect anything from you. Maybe you all have been investigating and you expect a different class of commenter here? I’m just venting and learning about the case.

            I was just venting about something I read on twitter a few days? ago. I was going to go look up the tweet but I am making dinner for my children. It looks like you are finding the info.

          • Xena says:


            You seem very offended by my error.

            All I did was respond to what you wrote, emphasizing that the word “murder” does apply to GZ’s credibility, but “self-defense” does not. You then said that the person you quoted may not have used the word “murder.”

            I am not a reporter and I don’t think my blog comment was slanderous.

            Did I say you were slanderous? No. Only thing is, if you’re going to give attribution to someone for saying something, especially something that you disagree with, it is important to get whatever they wrote correct.

            It looks like you are finding the info.

            Just the opposite — when I tried using your suggestion, there were too many returns in the search result. I have no need to prove you right or wrong — just wanted to help you out since you said that he might not have used the word “murder.”

          • Shari says:

            Here you go fellow justice warrior:

            John M. Phillips, practices in Florida, Georgia, and Alabama

            “Listening to these interviews, I just keep wishing George never got out of his car. He has a case, but his team hasn’t done him any favors.”

            “He has a consistent defense-like it or not. Credibility aside, he is a pretty compelling witness in some of these early meetings.” (So I got the credible part wrong)

          • cielo62 says:

            Shari~ Chill out! I didn’t say I couldn’t find it. I found it just fine. I just think that whatever HE says is rather irrelevant to this and is probably nothing more than a talking head for ratings. HENCE he’s ratings-baiting and can be discounted as being any real credible source. BTW, I’m not sure who you are blasting here. Me or Xena? OBVIOUSLY you expect SOMETHING or you wouldn’t be posting. And venting is fine. We do it all the time. But not by criticizing fellow posters. And scolding us for our humor is not nice, either. Have a nice supper! See you tomorrow at 9am EST. 


      • Trained Observer says:

        Oh, right. And who is Phllips? Some kind of talk show host or commentator? Would he be taking a position (no matter what he personally thinks) to build audience share?

      • boyd says:

        he did? that’s crazy. Hollywood could not write a better piece of fantasy as Zimmerman’s story.

        The kid is a thief casing houses, then a taunter walking around the car, and.finally he’s an unarmed Steven Seagal trying to take a guy out.


      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Now there’s a funny one, obviously this man has listen to none of the tapes and/or followed any of the analysis. Foggen can’t be the best witness for himself, because he impeaches himself constantly, nor can he explain why the evidence doesn’t match his story.

        Mr. Phillips should have a talk with O’Mara and see if O’Mara thinks that putting gz on the stand is going to make this case an easy win. The mere fact that after almost a year of harping on how the immunity hearing was going to set gz free, they came into court under pressure to decide the issue, and waived the immunity hearing. That should tell everyone that gz has no preponderance of evidence on his side. The bail hearing tapes should tell them that gz hasn’t the credibility to put his side across. Then look at the reenactment and see how gz struggles to change the story he previously told.

        But hey, don’t let the facts stop anyone from thinking whatever they want. Sure, go ahead and put gz on the stand, persist in thinking that’s he best hope. It is to laugh! It’s like saying that Torquemada would make a good replacement for Mother Teresa. A joke, a complete joke and nothing but a joke!

  4. Sleuth says:


    So that finally chose 40 pj’s. How long do you feel this next phase will take?

  5. Sleuth says:

    Finally made it to 40!

  6. smokeegyrl says:

    Well, everybody have a Blessed rest of the evening… or a good evening… lol

  7. smokeegyrl says:

    do they know these cameras are still on…

  8. ay2z says:

    Hopefully well under 10

  9. concernedczen says:

    How many of those 40 were foul bigots? I remember about 5 or so being very blatant about it.

  10. ay2z says:

    Waiting to see how short his chair is set, or his his bum slipping under distortion of the chair seat.

  11. tharealkeisha says:

    B12, B29, B76, B7, B35, B37, B51, B85, E6, E40, E54, E73, M75, B61, B72, E22, E13, E28, K80, P67, G14, G29, G47, G63, G66, G81, H6, H7, H18, H29, H35, H81, H69, H86, I5, I19, I24, I33, and I44 General Voir Dire in the am

  12. disappointed says:

    When Fogen leaned back in the chair just now I was hoping it would snap and he would fall on floor. Is that mean?

  13. Deborah Moore says:

    Well played, mams and sirs here.
    Nap time now. Pleasant everything to you all.

  14. The Top 40:

    1. B-12
    2. B-29
    3. B-76
    4. B-7
    5. B-35
    6. B-37
    7. B-51
    8. B-86
    9. E-6
    10. E-40
    11. E–54
    12. E-73
    13. M-75
    14. B-61
    15. B-72
    16. E-22
    17. E13
    18. E-28
    19. K-80
    21. P-67
    22. G-14
    23. G-29
    24. G-47
    25.. G-63
    26. G-66
    27. G-81
    28. H-6
    29. H-7
    30. H-18
    31. H-29
    32. H-35
    33. H-81
    34. H-69
    35. H-86
    36. I-5
    37. I-19
    38. I-24
    39. I-33
    40. I-44

  15. Dave says:

    Scratch B55 (young Indian lady)from your list, Professor

  16. whonoze says:

    List of 40 posted on WFTW blog:

    B12, B29, B76, B7, B35, B37, B51, B85, E6, E40, E54, E73, M75, B61, B72, E22, E13, E28, K80, P67, G14, G29, G47, G63, G66, G81, H6, H7, H18, H29, H35, H81, H69, H86, I5, I19, I24, I33, and I44

    Wonder if B51 will bomb. We’ll have to see what develops with E6. 🙂

  17. Two sides to a story says:

    It occurs to me that the lady lawyer may be participating in sidebars now either because she’s good at jury selection issues or because West is kinda off.

  18. ay2z says:

    JN lists 4 pm Frye tomorrow, regular tomorrow 9 am of 30 in the box, break about 3:45 before Frye, and if needed, continue with jury selection the next day.

    Defense wants an approach to discuss something about the plans for the week.

  19. ay2z says:

    fogen’s weight added to his face, makes his nose much smaller than appear in older photos, even moreso with the phone distorted fish eye views.

    • Deborah Moore says:

      I see that too, and was thinking that the girth of his head makes his eyes look closer together and his pinched little lips, well littler and more pinched.
      Sorry to say, but his weight gain has added to a more feral and guilty “look”. Just my own stupid small opinion.

  20. ay2z says:

    I’m no lip reader, but it looked as if West asked fogen if he’s doing alright… fogen nodded.

    This might be a pressure moment for him to put on his best.

  21. fauxmccoy says:

    judge nelson seems incredibly kind and decent towards potential and now excused jurors – i like seeing it.

  22. disappointed says:

    Fogen your day is fast approaching. If I were you I would be scared, very scared.

  23. ay2z says:

    The pj’s are coming in now. (JN did not go to them)

  24. We are at 40, wow. I was wrong in my AM prediction. She is listing them now.

    -She read it pretty fast, Fred has missed 3. We will have to find a source here.

  25. whonoze says:

    Bill Sheaffer (whose name I’ve been mis-spelling, sorry) just posted that h81, the lawyer with the cases before JN, is actually in.

  26. Bill Sheaffer: h 81 got in. he was the one we thought was out. he was the man with the 2 civil cases before the judge

  27. concernedczen says:

    It was H81, he wasn’t really dismissed

    • cielo62 says:

      didn’t we hate him?


      • Two sides to a story says:

        Um. I didn’ t hate him but he was maddeningly non-committal. Probably reliable since he’s a lawyer.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        I liked him. He introduced the word “Talking Heads” to Bernie, and Bernie liked it enough to use it in a later interview. That is a Daily Kos, MSNBC kind of phrase. I may be wrong, but I have no problem with him. He is to analytical to buy in to GZ’s rediculous stories.

  28. Two sides to a story says:

    Woo -hoo! Will it take 7 working days to cull those to 10?

  29. Tony Pipitone

    I-44 quickly sent out, and no single juror coming in, so we do have 40, meaning only one from today was dismissed.

  30. Deborah Moore says:

    Oh, we just got the judge on mike.
    Pj is acceptable.

  31. concernedczen says:

    They have 40, when the media said 39. Could H13 possibly still be in? I wonder. Who did we miss in the count?

  32. ay2z says:

    They have their 40, JN is about to list them:

    • ay2z says:

      list ok with state, but ok with defense and defendant only with caveat by defense at bench.

      JN goes to dismiss the pjs

  33. disappointed says:

    He is moving on, oops mic left on?

  34. His referral to a Higher Power makes me wonder if he is in the program (12 step).

  35. I-44 moves on to the next round.

  36. ay2z says:

    mic is on…. jn asks any objection re cause from either side, both say no

  37. Two sides to a story says:

    Oh darn, that was an interesting sidebar!

  38. Trained Observer says:

    Guy is a sports nut … Fogen give a little oinky smile … and I reach for trash can. Let this day be over soon.

  39. fauxmccoy says:

    sounds like a decent guy.

  40. bettykath says:

    I don’t like this guy. don’t want him in my neighborhood. small minded.

  41. Doesn’t like sports either.

    There is more to life than football.

  42. Two sides to a story says:

    I don’t trust people who don’t see the issues in this case and just brush it away. Ha-ha, but karma brought it to him anyway! 😀

  43. ay2z says:

    We are a blended family, wants to keep negativity of media feeding, chooses “NOT TO ALLOW IT IN HOME”.

    10, 12, youngest under 1 yr old. (ounds like blend includes wife’s two kids, or one of his, one of hers, he can leave her with all three without a problem)

    “I do check CNN”…. “computer generated scenario, animation”

    He seems to make all the decisions in HIS house, always “I’ decide, never ‘we’.

    • ay2z says:

      He wants on the case. Hssn’t mentioned hardship on the mother of his 1 year old, and the other two children and their needs.

      “What does that matter to me” …. re pressures of how it would affect him….”Always taught MY children”,,,

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I didn’t like that. Makes no mention of the other half. Surely she has some say.

      • concernedczen says:

        Yep, he wants to be on the jury. Therefore, I don’t believe that him that he really doesn’t care about the case. I think he is stealth one way or the other.

  44. Father of 3, blended family.

    Doesn’t allow news in the house because the news is all negative.

    Saw the beginning of an animation and turned it off because he doesn’t believe the media.

  45. whonoze says:

    He sounds intelligent to me…

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Yeah. Doesn’t seem that concerned as a parent except to keep negativity from filtering into his house. Keeps his kids from the news. If he’s white, probably doesn’t think this can happen to his kids.

  46. disappointed says:

    Why doesn’t BDLR tell the PJs that because MOM cannot keep his mouth and mug away from the camera they will be sequestered?

  47. ay2z says:

    Media typcally from internet, doesn’t find much credibility of TV.
    Few– CNN, MSNBC…
    Opinions they give– doesn’t take much value in that
    Media has a slant? Says of course, yes
    Excactly he will keep it outside the courtroom, doens’t find credibility unless from courtroom, witness says vs outside, says ‘yes’.

    Prior– discussion wthe the family or friends– yes but more ‘how long is media going to go on about this.

    He doesn’t discuss at work, he’s a store owner.

    Heard of the parties, calls from jail, story sensationallized about the “Skittle company”, Trayvon had Skittles then the Skittles company wanted to capitolize, he said “shameless consumerism”.

    Hoodie, raining that night…. turned himself in… says he can disregard if something does not come out in trial.

    Radio recording– they slowed it down, they put music to it to make it comical, laughter…. how much fun ‘THEY’ seemed to get out of it, he laughed but not consider it credible.

    Heard snippets of 911 call– banter between Mr. Z and 911 operator, (fogen writes again) recalls only ‘we are on the way’

    Any other aspect? “Lives in Lake Mary, aware of traffic jams, didn’t pay attention to protests…. we have the right…. but…. drastically elongated my time to get home to family…” Won’t hold it against one side or other.

    ASsuming he were NOT on jury, what would you tell freind who didn’t know anything, he’d fill in on… shooting, essentially hearing to find out what happened…. ‘needle in haystack’.

    What in media about facts…. about the shooting… what led up or circumstances…. rainy, hoodie…

    Hardship Q– says “Not ideal, but far from insurmountable”

  48. Deborah Moore says:

    Is GZ writing this down for the opening line of his book?
    It was a dark and rainy night….

  49. Dave says:

    Another poor guy stuck in traffic thanks to the rallies

  50. Has no problem with the protests.

  51. Oh! So it was the jail calls the radio made fun of.

  52. I smell hipster snob.

  53. disappointed says:

    Radio station making a joke of one of the 911 calls?

    • Tzar says:

      stay classy

      • Shari says:

        Sometimes I don’t know what is offensive. I’m not calling anyone out and I don’t want to start anything but the same thing has happened in threads here. Some people here have used: He’s on drugs or somepin, He’s coming to check me out, He looks suspicious, as a way to make jokes with other thread posters. I never found it funny but I know how things can be on an online forum. You post with someone for a year and you become familiar, it’s not my place to intrude or rebuke.

        • cielo62 says:

          Shari~ it’s also a way to stay focused on the absolutely STUPID lies and profiling that gz did when he decided to stalk Trayvon. I still think they’re funny, because all of that crap means NOTHING because NONE of it was a crime! Those very words will nail gz. Those very words will show profiling.

        • Tzar says:

          that’s the NEN call
          big difference

          • Shari says:

            Okay the NEN didn’t have Trayvon screaming for his life and the fatal gunshot. That’s fine. I just think it would be nice if there was consistency. If this isn’t a joking matter, then lets stop all the jokes. I’m going to be honest, yes I did laugh at the funny or die clip. I couldn’t help it, it was nice to laugh for a second. I prefer humor to anger/sadness about the murder. Everything GZ said Trayvon did, he did. So Trayvon heard GZ say, “I’m going to f’ing kill you.” I put myself in the terrified child’s shoes and can’t help but grieve. So when I listened to the funny or die clip it numbed some sadness.

            Maybe ALL of the humor is in poor taste. I don’t know. I find it hard to censor anyone when I have laughed.

          • Tzar says:

            haven’t seen the clip you speak of
            I can categorically say that there is nothing funny about the 911 call

            when people make fun of the NEN, they are making fun of fogen and nothing else and he deserves it every opportunity we get.

          • cielo62 says:

            Tzar~ thank you.

          • cielo62 says:

            Shari~ and maybe NONE of the humor is in poor taste. “Gallows humor” is well known, and permits people to deal with very serious issues without going into total despair. Maybe I just don’t understand. NOBODY here has made a joke of, or made light of the fact that Trayvon was stalked, terrorized and murdered. Never. But we make fun of the impossible lies that gz has said and has been recorded as saying. If we didn’t, I doubt we’d have the emotional stamina to see this case through to the very end.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          You might say that some of us have become all too familiar with the case. We’ve been over the maps and the various time studies and again and again gz’s claims look ever more ridiculous, thus we’ve come to where we subject them to the ridicule they appear to richly deserve. So, it’s not so much about making jokes as it is about removing the credibility these statements once held for us.

  54. amsterdam1234 says:


  55. disappointed says:

    LOL The jail calls. Liar liar liar, George and Shellie.

  56. I-44, a man, gets information from internet, CNN, MSNBC, finds news sources lack credibility.

  57. I44 is next.

    He gets his news over the internet, CNN and MSNBC.

  58. hispanic male in 40’s

  59. I33 did not provide a reason to be disqualified for cause.

  60. Dave says:

    I’m guessing that thirty bucks and three square meals a day sounds mighty good to this guy.

  61. ay2z says:

    I-44, a ‘sir’

  62. smokeegyrl says:

    tornado warning in my area… bbl…

  63. Two sides to a story says:

    Defense must like him – pretty short yak.

  64. Deborah Moore says:

    I’m seeing in my little mind’s eye, someone that Clint Eastwood could play onscreen.

    • parrot says:

      Given his foggy speech at the Republican National Convention he’s a perfect fit for West.

      • Malisha says:

        WEST: Do you agree that this chair is guilty?

        A: Yes.

        WEST: Well there’s nobody IN this chair; this CHAIR is where Trayvon Martin would be sitting if he weren’t so GUILTY!

        A: Yes.

        WEST: Can’t hear you!

        A: Sir Yes SIR Darn Tootin Yes your client is INNOCENT.

        WEST: Your Honor this juror is not prejudiced. Please give him a chair.

  65. concernedczen says:

    I’m disgusted with some of these jurors. Some are so blatantly biased.

    I’m still smarting over H13 being excused yesterday. That was bogus.

  66. ay2z says:

    “I live in the middle on nowhere… ” But he said he heard lots walking down the streets.”

    “I haven’t had enough facts… to form an opinion…. probably….”

    Hedging….. getting thicket stuck in his butt as he sits up there.

  67. disappointed says:

    Sides with the prosecution or sides with self defense? WTH is that? Did Fogen change his name to self defense?

  68. ay2z says:

    Might be, effort to figure out who was screaming, but does this guy forget that he reads OS and there was a big effort on their part to hire experts and publicise their result done on behalf of OS?

    Dun… did he have head injury in the car wreck?

    Police had to vacate his job, “that’s all really know about it”… “haven’t really formed an opinion… don’t know why he really lost his job exactly.”

    Failure of OS to print anything about this in the paper– duh! on this guy.

  69. Come on, Don.

    Bounce around a little. We love it when you bounce around.

  70. Two sides to a story says:

    See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil – know nothing.

  71. disappointed says:

    Oh my gosh come on West. They should type him a list of the questions so he does not get lost so often.

  72. The PJ was injured in a car wreck, and has experienced a difficult recoverry

  73. I have direct tv like he does and I pay to get my local stations on sattelite, so West is wrong to assume

  74. ay2z says:

    “Have seen where people gettting interviewed on tv, best I can remember I was doin’ something else…”

    Nothing that he can think of that really stuck with him.

  75. Fox News maybe not the local.


    • Malisha says:

      He answers like Fogen. When the answer is obvious but he doesn’t want to say it, he says “probably” or “I think so” or “maybe” so he believes he’s not lying. Bad sign. Kick his a55 out.

    • towerflower says:

      Fox35 is one of the locals. If you have cable add on 13 to the list.

  76. Oh, for God’s sake!

    West and this guy: Who’s on first?

    Pass the freakin’ popcorn

    • ay2z says:

      West feeds him it’s default as cable, but one past PJ said gets brighthouse on digital antenna. WEST has just concluded he doesn’t get channel 13…. ASS… umption.

      Subscribes OS, most days is part of his routine.

  77. ay2z says:

    “Oh I heard some” commentary on the case, walking down the street he says, it was everywhere. He thinks that commentary was ‘both ways’.

    B asks “did you ever express an opinion on that?”
    PJ “I don’t think so”
    PJ “I have discussed ….” the reaction in the community.
    PJ: doesn’t remember any opinion though, about this he might have stated.

    PJ about community reaction went both ways… heavy talk in both directions.

    B asks if he believes basic right of free speech? PJ says “yes”
    Do you think it’s improper in any way? PJ “the rules are the rules, free speech is free speech” “No” to influence.

    FB challenged he says. Small family and none of them do that.
    “Currently not working”, Questionnaire he said

    (missed end of B’s part)

  78. SoulSistaWoo says:

    Currently unemployed, small family who never speaks about the case… He wants on this jury.

    I will listen to the rest of his questioning, but at this stage, my instincts tell me he needs to go.

  79. I don’t think I expressed an exact opinion.

  80. Longtime OS Subscriber in Florida Discusses Most Publicized Case With Family and Decides “Probably it Happened.”

    • SoulSistaWoo says:

      I was distracted during much of his testimoney and missed the decleration as an OS reader… He is throughly infected with contagious lies… he needs to go home and watch the trial like he has watched all the hearings leading up to this trial.

      • SoulSistaWoo says:

        Crane/Prof. Please remove the mess of a post above. Thank you. ^^^^

      • towerflower says:

        You have to understand that if you live in/near Orlando then the OS is really the only paper. When you get on the outer fringes of Central Florida ie Space Coast–Florida Today or Northern Central Florida–News Journal then you have another choice of more of a local paper. But close to Orlando and it’s the OS.

    • SoulSistaWoo says:

      I was distracted during much of his testimony and missed the declaration as an OS reader… He is thoroughly infected with contagious lies… he needs to go home and watch the trial like he has watched all the hearings leading up to this trial.

      • As it went along, I got the impression that he lives sort of a secluded life, and was impacted by the injury from a car accident, but I didn’t think he read all the OS articles related to the case.

        At any rate, he did get through. I was more thinking hardship due to physical limitations from sitting, but he didn’t bring it up.

  81. Have you discussed the incident with your family?

    Probably, yes.

    Do you recall what you said?

    Probably that it happened.

  82. ay2z says:

    He doesn’t remember details of court proceedings from the beginning but knows about them.

    “I will tell you if yu get a June 10th summons that it might be about this case.”

  83. Recalls there was a 911 tape with some screaming on it, but he hasn’t listened to it.

    He has no opinion about who is screaming and has no opinion about GZ’s guilt or innocence.

    • ay2z says:

      But corrected himself because Bernie caught him saying he remembered ‘screaming’ on the tape, then said he did listen to it.

  84. ay2z says:

    B asks about gist of 911 tape, but his memory is jogged, and corrects that he DID hear the 911 tape, screams.

  85. IMBack says:

    I think this one is lying already. He saw pictures but don’t know whats going on! He sounds like an NRA gun carrying activist!

  86. ay2z says:

    B asks about circumstances leading up to Death of Mr. Martin.

    “they got in a fight”… “at night”… “oh I’ve seen photographs…. Mr. Martin and Mr. Zimmerman….”yes, picture I saw was of Mr. Martin in the most publicized way, in a hooded sweatshirt standing….”

    Q about Z. “… I remember seeing just his face…. one time getting out of the police car at whatever police station he was at…. I did see a picture of him recently as compared to when it all began, just a regular picture…”

    He says formed no opinions re photos.

    B any other photos that you recall? (I wonder what photos OS published in paper copy that he must have seen if he got the paper daily and looked at them).

  87. Saw a photo of TM in a hooded sweatshirt.

    Saw a photo of GZ at the police station and a more recent photo of him taken a month or so ago.

  88. fauxmccoy says:

    regarding bernie’s questioning approach … although i have stated my wish that he listened better and made more time for PJs to speak, i do believe there is significant team work between he and Guy. guy is the designated listener, bernie focuses on establishing a friendly rapport, but guy listens. bernie always goes back to guy to see what he may have over looked in questioning or areas to probe further.

  89. Subscribes to the Orlando Sentinel.

    Felt compassion for both “entities.”

    That’s it, I’m pushing the red button.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      the trapdoor with a slide to the everglades? 😉

    • Tzar says:

      seriously if you don’t know what side to jump on when an unarmed minor is killed after running away
      something is wrong with your moral compass

      • Shari says:

        Some of these PJ’s are trying to minimize the gravity of what happened. They are also trying to make others believe that this was two MEN involved. There is an ADULT murderer and a CHILD victim. They find it very easy to see Fogen, the ADULT WITH A CRIMINAL HISTORY as some kind of young kid who made an ooppsie.

  90. ay2z says:

    “the more I heard the less I wanted to hear” “epathy for both parties”

  91. Back in session I-33, a man. TV + newspaper “a little of both”
    Subscribes to the OS.

    *reaching for buzzer*

  92. Kathi Belich, WFTV@KBelichWFTVAnd we’re back. Potential juror I-33 is a white male, who appears to be in his 60s.

  93. I33 is next up in the box

  94. ay2z says:

    Male, pj I-33.

    • ay2z says:

      Sounds older, and cues from Bernie, ‘old fashioned’ OS paper copy question, tells he’s older, maybe retired.

  95. Recess.
    Because I can, Princess Bride, Battle of Wits:

    • ay2z says:

      Damned assumptions…. he assumes the poison is a poison, and he choises to assume the powder was in either cup….. suspense,,,,,,, he drinks….. but does the masked man?

      Aww, doesnt’ matter, the fool lost.

    • ay2z says:

      exactly, what this pj was giving off….. what I am is not what I am but I am smarter than you…..

  96. That’s the first time I’ve heard such an obvious pro-Z spinner. Admittedly I took a break for a day or two, but wow.

    • gbrbsb says:

      I think the little old lady partnered with a retired policeman (E 81?) beat her by many miles !

      • I must’ve missed that.

      • Sleuth says:

        Oh, E81 was off the chain….she never wanted to be on the jury….just wanted get her views broadcasted.

        Must kin to the guy yesterday, (H-27) who gave $20 to the confessed murderer’s defense fund. He also has a sister who’s a cop. He challenged Bernie. Told him, “I’m just being truthful, go ahead, kick me off the jury”, something like that.

        I think his goal was the same as E81.

        • gbrbsb says:

          Thnx for info, I missed yesterday except for the Frye hearing bit. Did anyone see if GZ’s face lit up when he told he had donated $20 !

  97. I really do not like this woman and would use a peremptory to get rid of her, if I couldn’t get her excused in the group voir dire.

    Of course, she’s so far down the line that she probably will not make it into the box.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I think she would follow jury instructions. SHe embraces the paradoxes inherent in life. Actually fairly rare in someone her age.

      • ay2z says:

        Seh has heard (very likely) Sean Hannity show with the fake studio backgrounds and disappearing plants and furniture and unreal cast lighting from lamps, and odd disappearing lawyer beside fogen in real video creating time, tricks of chroma key imagine backrounds.

        They could have made fogen appear in jail, on the Green Mils scene, had they wanted to.

  98. Juror 1 24- A young man lost his life and another man is fighting for his life. There are no winners.


    Pro Zimmerman spin —> another man is fighting for his life. Plain as the nose on your face.

  99. 15 minute recess.

    I think I-24 made it into the pool.

  100. SoulSistaWoo says:

    I24 is talking out of both sides of her mouth… She thinks she sounds informed.

    Obsessed with the news… loves it, then says in the next breath… the media and news does a disservice… Get rid of her, undercover, Fox new advocate, Sean Hannity #1 fan.

  101. parrot says:

    The media has been indicted.

    • Sleuth says:

      Why are these pj’s afraid to call out SPD?

      They are the one’s who listed the confessed murderer’s race as W/M, which gave the impression a white man murderered an AA teenager.

      But many want to blame that on the media too.

  102. ay2z says:

    How many tiems you heard news of this case? “NONE” in detail, total (very few….missed this but low single digit I think.)

    “One young man lost his life, another is fighting for his life and no one is a winner in this case.”

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I know some people don’t like that quote, but that’s a good nutshell judgement, IMHO. This case is just sad to the core. Most criminal cases are, really.

      • cielo62 says:

        Two Sides~ except that gz had EVERY CHANCE to NOT murder Trayvon! It was CHOICE and not an “event” “incident” or “accident”. Other wise I would agree.


      • parrot says:

        Let’s never forget that.

        The worst in my view is that phone call between him and Shellie when he got that windfall and thought he’d have a good life.

        Not a thought about that boy lying in his grave or the ache his family had to live with the rest of their lives.

      • towerflower says:

        parrot, don’t forget his jokes about wearing a hoodie out of the jail when he was released. Totally without feeling for others.

    • ay2z says:

      GZ may be a ‘young man’ but in her quote, she doesn’t not differentiate between a ‘child’ by any legal definition (Lester said, Trayvon was the ONLY one whose youth is an issue in this case… period). She lumps both as ‘young man but not one is adult, and the other a ‘child’ whose brain is not fully developed into adult at the time he was followed and killed.

      She will default to the only living witness’s version. I think, and rely on what she has heard to entertain her mind.

      • Sleuth says:

        That’s because O’Dirty tried to give the “gullible” public the impression that this is a case about 2 men.

        He’s been quoted many times this past year referring to the case as such. He kind of slow down in using it after they p.o. Judge Lester.

        Once new judge was assigned, he started up again. It was a part of his strategy which seems to be working,……for now.

    • Dave says:

      One young man lost his life and the other still has his life and is fighting (I hope unsuccessfully) for his freedom. There may be no real winner but it’s damned obvious who the biggest loser was.

      • ay2z says:

        She leaves a big hole for the ‘TEEN-ager (her emphasis) being in the wrong, doing what typical teens do, that cuased this or played a role in his own death.

        If Trayvon was fighting for his life, he was the only one whose life was at risk that night. NW authority is no authority at all to do what he did, on patrol NOR as a private citizen.

  103. parrot says:

    A “tweener” I think.

  104. fauxmccoy says:

    cannot detect bias between fox and msnbc? ummm, either is lying or totally oblivious to not even subtle nuance. not suitable, either way for jury service.

    • Seriously does MSNBC even pretend to be neutral? I know Fox does but anyone paying attention knows better.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        @ryan — i don’t perceive msnbc even hiding their bias — think of their self promoting ads with the theme ‘lean forward’… how can that be perceived as anything but progressive in nature?

        fox does a good job at fooling their flock with the ‘fair and balanced’ meme, but anyone outside the flock can see right through it.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Depends upon what parts you watch.

    • type1juve says:

      I agree, lying or not listening to what is being reported.

  105. She got tired of listening to the news because it kept changing.

    They have a tendency to report stuff before authenticating what they say.

    That can hurt someone fighting for his life.

    At first it sounded like TM was the victim, but then they started reporting about his problems in school.

    First, GZ wasn’t injured but later on he was.

    Those changes seem to have led her to think GZ is innocent and “fighting for his life,” or she would not have mentioned them.

  106. She doesn’t see a bias on Fox or MSNBC? Oh my god. I watch MSNBC and I’ll admit a liberal bias there.

  107. On things that may have happened with TM in school:

    “He’s a teenager. he is a 17 year old kid. No kid is perfect.”

    Without saying it, she may be calling O’Mara a straight-up pathological liar.

    ‘In the beginning he had no injuries, and then a week later he did. What do you believe?’

  108. Boyd says:

    So far the only good thing coming out of this is we all agree the media sucks

  109. Dave says:

    Keep going O’Mara. You’re drawing out her bias better than BDLR did.

  110. ZCBest says:

    I can’t take O’mara acting like he is blameless. The media is reporting based on what he included in motions regarding Trayvon. The media didn’t extract info from TM’s phone, O’mara and other asshole company did that crap!


  111. ay2z says:

    She wants to be on the jury, enjoys news, no hardship, kids flown the coop.

    MOM uses ‘patrolling’– not sure I heard her say that word. She thinks media fails because they don’t take the time to research and report ‘the facts’. She doesn’t say the media does not have all the ‘facts’, nor anything about spin.

    “…Disservice for someone ‘fighting for their lives”. Oh, that’s the GZ spin mantra, early media reports did diservice, now reports come out that he’s a teenager, not the innocent that was portrayed early on.

    Media agenda, but she doesn’t say it’s also used by defense.

    Frist GZ ” ..had no injuries, then week or so later, he did”

    • ay2z says:

      All these examples by her, is first spin against defendant in media then later opposite, as more bad info comes out abyt teenager.

      “listening is “something to occupy my mind.”

      Default, one of them is FOX, “Oh yes … as well as ABC, CNN, …. MSNBC…”

  112. disappointed says:

    No child is perfect! Testify Lady! She must know my sons.

  113. “Some of the things he did in school.” You just ensured that you won’t make it.

  114. fauxmccoy says:

    “he wasn’t the innocent young man he was portrayed”

    ugggg, don’t want her

  115. Xena says:

    But GZ justified his profiling of Trayvon based on his NW knowledge and NW patrolling. O’Mara is right in a way — GZ wasn’t patrolling; he was stalking.

    • SoulSistaWoo says:

      Sure was!

      • Xena says:

        @SoulSistaWoo. Yep. According to GZ, he wasn’t pursuing, just banging on his flashlight trying to get it to work so he could look down the dog path where he saw Trayvon run.

        He didn’t have a problem — just went for his cell phone to call 911 to tell them to have a good day.

        He started yelling for help the moment he fell and Trayvon straddled him, before anything physical happened beyond that; not because he feared for life, but to restrain Trayvon.

  116. We don’t need a media lecture, PJ. Yes or no.

  117. Someone best be marking this lady as being in stealth mode..jmho…know too many of these kind 😦

  118. I think it is fascinating that nobody has asked about the Sean Hannity Show.

  119. disappointed says:

    She sounds like she has a bit of a attitude with MOM. Probably nothing since I think he just has that kind of personality.

  120. The giggling in response to questions bugs me.

  121. smokeegyrl says:

    Looks like Shelly has Frank Taafe to be security guard… Isn’t he a witness… and why is he allowed during this procedure?

  122. ay2z says:

    Mark does his friendly salesman pitch with his chit chat and compliments and consideration.

  123. No hardship serving or being sequestered.

  124. smokeegyrl says:

    is that Michael Skolnik in the back… in the pink shirt?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I think he said in a column yesterday that he would be there today.

      Also, Sundance Cracker hinted there would be a Treeper in the public seats today.

  125. She enjoys listening to the news.

  126. Bill Sheaffer: we are at 36 potential jurors. this would be number 37. there are five more jurors ready for today. btw, i-24 is in 40’s or 50s

  127. She enjoys the news. Never heard that.

  128. disappointed says:

    Finally someone who understands the parents.

  129. Two sides to a story says:

    Finally, someone who says they couldn’t imagine losing their child!

  130. ay2z says:

    Is she confused about the questions? Remembers nw, but then didn’t know who, then says defendant was involved in NW. (is what fogen has, contageious??)

  131. chi1224 says:

    Sorry to steer off topic but why in the world did the prosecution agree not to use the word “profile” in opening statements? Clearly Trayvon WAS profiled….. I don’t get it

    • Trained Observer says:

      They can say it a dozen other ways, why argue? (I believe this ban on “profile” is only during jury selection, not during trial testimony.)

      • chi1224 says:

        Here is part of what I read (I’ll post the link too)-
        SANFORD — Quietly and with hardly anyone noticing, George Zimmerman’s attorneys persuaded a judge to ban prosecutors from using the word “profiled” in their opening statement.

        That means the theory that was the backbone of the state’s case — that 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was profiled — is now something prosecutors cannot mention as they launch into their case against the former Neighborhood Watch volunteer.

        It is a major pretrial victory for the 29-year-old Zimmerman, who in the days and weeks immediately after Trayvon’s death was denounced as a racist, made into a social pariah and became the subject of a federal civil-rights investigation.

        more here: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-geo-zimmerman-trial-profile-20130617,0,1761292.story

        • Xena says:

          @chi1224. IIRC, it was during the first hearing on jury selection, or at the end of the first hearing on the Frye motion, that Judge Nelson said she was not hearing the defense’s motion in liminie and that the parties stipulated that the prosecution would not use the word “profiling” during jury selection.

          That’s a lot of “film” to go through, but if I have time I will look for it and put the clip in a video.

      • willisnewton says:

        Again it’s important to note that article I wrong/ the judge didnt rule on the motion – instead BDLR agreed at the bench to assure the defense he would t use the word in opening statement.

        There’s a real but subtle difference there

      • Malisha says:

        So, wait a minute: The judge did not RULE on it but the parties AGREED not to use the word “profiled” but West used it and Bernie did not? HUH?

    • Xena says:


      Sorry to steer off topic but why in the world did the prosecution agree not to use the word “profile” in opening statements?

      The prosecution only agreed not to use that word during jury selection. Judge Nelson has not ruled on the defense’s motion in liminie yet. IMO, she will deny, because “profiling” is part of the charging affidavit and the State has to prove that. Forbidding them from using that word would tie their hands in proving their case.

      It’s an O’Mara attempt to blind-side.

      • chi1224 says:

        So is the Orlando Sent. wrong? It wouldn’t surprise me because they seem pro-fogen to me, but they report the prosecution can’t use the word profile in the opening statements, which is when the state lays out the story of their case to the sitting jury.

        Unfortunately I’m still confused about this issue 😛

        • Xena says:


          but they report the prosecution can’t use the word profile in the opening statements, which is when the state lays out the story of their case to the sitting jury.

          The reporter probably doesn’t know “opening statements” from “voir doir” just like Zidiots don’t know the difference between a subpoena and a summons –and O’Mara’s staff didn’t know there are separate Rules for Civil subpoenas from Rules for Criminal subpoenas.

          If I find that “clip” and post it, maybe the Professor will address it.

          • cielo62 says:

            Xena~ Hit that nail on the head! They have NO CLUE what they are reporting because they don’t know the legal language.


          • Xena says:


            Xena~ Hit that nail on the head! They have NO CLUE what they are reporting because they don’t know the legal language.

            Absolutely! Looks like the Orlando Sentinel has “crime reporters” doubling as reporters for “courts and the law.” They are two different animals. Crime reporters report what LE tells them. Reporters in courts and the law really do need some understanding of judicial procedure and terminology.

            In a controversial case like this, not understanding the orders of the court can be very misleading, especially to people such as Zidiots who depend on what is reported rather than having knowledge or a blogger like Frederick Leatherman to explain things to them.

      • Lynn says:

        Rene has now corrected her story to include jury selection only.

        • Xena says:


          Rene has now corrected her story to include jury selection only.

          I hope she corrected it to say that the agreement is “limited” to jury selection. I don’t read her, so don’t know. Thanks for the info.

    • Xena says:

      @chi1224. I found the clip but want to wait until the hearing is over before converting to present here.

    • Xena says:


      Here ’tis.

      • chi1224 says:

        Xena, thank you so much!! I missed this earlier as it got buried in all the comments (I just figured out how to check the response tab by my log in)… many many thanks to you for finding and posting the video, it clears up the confusion!

  132. A young man lost his life and another man is fighting for his life.

    That sounds like pro-Z spin.

    Get rid of her.

  133. willisnewton says:

    are we close to the magic 40 yet? Just tubing back in here.

  134. Dave says:


  135. MOM has to be loving this PJ.

  136. Dave says:

    “one man lost his life and anotherman is fighting for his life.” Come on now!

  137. amsterdam1234 says:

    She has got to go.

  138. @hinkster4ever keeping it on the real for us, with pretty much real time updates. Folks can scroll through the thread for these, to get the progression.

    I-24 now.

  139. ay2z says:

    whoa!! she would tell her good friend when she IS on the jury scenario???

  140. Passed for cause today on hardship and pretrial publicity: H69, H86, I-5 and I-19.

  141. Xena says:

    GZ is having a time or reckoning — he really does not have that many supporters.

    • Deborah Moore says:

      He has relied on the support from his wife, father, family, and I imagine he might have received letters…from folks who bought his bs hook, line and sinker. And, you know there are girls who might want to be friends, ’cause ya know, he’s famous and stuff and maybe they could be famous too.
      Of course, none of those folks are being questioned as PJs. So, yah, and yesterday after a break someone said he looked like he’d been crying. He’s getting a Clue.

      • Xena says:

        @Deborah Moore.

        Of course, none of those folks are being questioned as PJs. So, yah, and yesterday after a break someone said he looked like he’d been crying. He’s getting a Clue.

        Your comment gave a light-bulb moment. Maybe GZ was of the impression that all 500 people called for jury duty were in support of him so anyone chosen for the 6 would have already decided in his favor.

        • cielo62 says:

          Xena~ I’d like to see gz “crying.” Honestly, I don’t believe it.


          • Xena says:

            @cielo62. If GZ was crying, it was because he couldn’t finish his lunch in time. Ya know — all those starving kids in Africa and he leaves food on his plate.

          • cielo62 says:

            Xena~ LOL! I’m wondering if the reality is FINALLY taking shape inside that blockhead of his? There is a very real possibility that NOT ONLY will he NOT make a  bazillion dollars from suing everybody from God on down to the janitor, but that he will ALSO be going to prison for the very minimum of 35 years! 30+35= very old man once he’s released. Sweating? You bet! Anxiety attacks? Certainly! But CRYING? I need to see that.


      • Sleuth says:

        @Deborah Moore

        I think I said that on yesterday. His legal team were seated, kinda surrounding him…..he didn’t look too happy.

        It was almost as if they could’ve been saying, “Dude, don’t do it”, or “You have no choice”.

        What I was seeing on his face was a response to what the legal team was saying.

        The jury consultant was not a part of that particular conversation, he sat waaay off, behind them.

        • cielo62 says:

          Sleuth~ he’s either contemplating suicide or planning to run. Well, he hasn’t got the guts for suicide and he’s too fat and well recognized to run. So, NO, he has NO CHOICE!  🙂


      • Sleuth says:


        Or the type of redness in the eye when a person is very upset and angry, or after crying.

        From the looks of it, the conversation looked very intense. And yeah, I thought it could be for the same reasons you mentioned.

        Something definitely upset the apple cart.

    • Trained Observer says:

      I reckon his time of reckoning will last for decades in the pen, but, yes, let it begin to sink in for him now.

      (He’s been isolated for so long, he’s likely been inclined to believe nonsense he reads on line, combined with what his ace legal team comes up with to keep him pacified.

  142. Deborah Moore says:

    Ruh roh. In her thirties and giggling on the stand?
    Doesn’t bode well as a first impression.

  143. Fox news viewer. I don’t want her on the jury.

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      I swear, I recognize a fox voice the moment they open their mouth. I don’t know what it is, but I do.

      • cielo62 says:

        amsterdam~ maybe it’s the stupid crap that they spew that tips you off?


        • Shari says:

          You recognize the talking points, I can spot an MSNBC watcher as well. You recognize it because you know the stories they choose to cover. If I remember correctly FOX was pretty much ignoring this story until Obama said, “If I had a son..”

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        It is before they utter a full sentence. There is something in their tone of voice. Maybe it is judgement or the fox outrage I hear.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        It has a different quality in younger voices than in older ones. Older people have a certain indignation, but also a pretention of niceness, but no matter what they say, you are just waiting for them to start complaining about those ………

        • Shari says:

          I feel insulted by talking points from anyone. Please ask intelligent questions which seek to find facts for me. It’s is difficult to find a media outlet who will do this. I’m going to try BBC or some other International source.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        Yes, you recognize the talking points and the choice of words.

  144. amsterdam1234 says:

    Bernie missed another opportunity when she said ” the media was making up stories again”.

  145. Bill Sheaffer: looks like i-19 is through. that takes us to 36 out of 40

  146. Deborah Moore says:

    Oh, and way late, I see the journalist in the white top. The white pops, makes her more visible.

    • Sleuth says:


      That sounds like the same thing one of the witnesses in this case stated to the investigators.

      • Deborah Moore says:

        I hadn’t heard that.
        (But, you’re the Sleuth, and I’m the watcher.) Thanks.

      • Sleuth says:

        @Deborah Moore,

        Wow!……how weird is that?

        I thought your initial comments about the journalist was just a joke, or a play on words regarding witness #3 statements made to investigators, but now I know otherwise.

        Witness #3 was the young lady who said “…the guy on top had on a white t-shirt.”…….and… “I’m pretty sure because that was the only color that popped”

  147. Sleuth says:

    The confessed murderer has looked me directly in the eyes……..he has starred at me 3x. Really weird phenomenon.

    Has this happened to anybody else here?

  148. Kathi Belich, WFTV @KBelichWFTV
    I 24 is up. She is a white woman who appears to be in her 30’s.

  149. smokeegyrl says:

    I bet George is writing and taking notes so he can write a book like him papa..

  150. lol did judge say follow Jarvis out of court room, I did not hear

  151. Deborah Moore says:

    As GBS said Youth is wasted on the young.

  152. SoulSistaWoo says:

    I 14 was dismissed due to a post by his mother and Yet B81 can get on the stand and spout all type of bitter, hate filled lies w/a confirmed made up mind and she gets a pass… sounds about right…

  153. smokeegyrl says:

    Did I hear her say she didn’t care.

  154. fauxmccoy says:

    and again, west shows no ability to identify with anyone dependent on hourly wages at shit companies. how the hell did he get through school? i worked 30 hours a week throwing produce and carrying 20+ units. uggggg, what an out of touch douchenozzle.

  155. ay2z says:

    Question for the state to inquire, about the way a person can more likely be chosen, more chances (she mentioned this as knowledge given to her by someone), so did she try this as well?)

  156. the attorney with cases pending before this judge was dismissed and then the last young man so we are still at 35

  157. smokeegyrl says:

    When they keep asking about the bloody picture… it brings to my mind… when my head was bashed in several times on a wooden floor… suffering two broken noses… I’ve had two concussions one mile and one severe… I suffer with headaches to this day… the swelling on noises lasted up from 5 to 7 days… so when they wiped his blood away… did they wipe the swelling too? just asking..

    • Malisha says:

      Uh Oh don’t say you had two broken noses — the Treepers might read it and Fogen will up his ante and claim that Trayvon broke BOTH his noses and three of his ears! ❗ Then there won’t be a jury in the world that will convict him!

    • towerflower says:

      I was dealing with some youngsters today. One took a kickball to the face and got a bloody nose. A little ice, some cotton, and he looked as good as new…….gee just like Z did shortly after that photo was taken.

  158. Sabrina B. says:

    I’m sorry. I just responded to someone. I got caught up and realized that I hadn’t introduced myself. Apologies for butting in. I have been following and enjoying the thread. It has been very informative in catching up to the actual happenings in court for those who are unable to watch continuously. I promise, I’ll do more reading than replying. Anyway, back to stealth mode.

  159. Do we know who was excused this morning?

  160. fauxmccoy says:

    just want to say how much i detest low rent companies who don’t pay employees while on jury duty. it effectively keeps poor folks, dependent on hourly wages off juries. that was one of the first changes i made in company policy when i was promoted to general manager of my local food co-op.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I salute you.

    • ay2z says:

      There’s more reason of inconvenience to themselves personally and business, than wages. Civic duty vs convenience and costs to make up wage over and above 30 dollar daily stipend.

      • ay2z says:

        vs civic duty, they probably want to suggest to employees, that they wont’ help, even if in the end they will.

    • @Fauxmccoy Bravo!

    • Xena says:

      @fauxmccoy. (Applause)

    • cielo62 says:

      faux mccoy~ PREACH IT, SISTER! And this lady would be MORE a “peer” to gz than many others. Struggling financially.


    • Sleuth says:

      I read somewhere, according to State law, most employer’s don’t have to pay their employee’s; or they are required to pay them the difference, i.e. employee makes $50 per day, jury duty $30 per day. Employer then only has to pay employe $20 for each day served on jury.

      • Trained Observer says:

        In Florida, you get your regular salaried paycheck from employer during civil or criminal jury service.Then you turn check, that eventually show up from the clerk of courts, for jury service over to your employer.

        • cielo62 says:

          Trained Observer~ But that doesn’t apply to hourly employees. I think we’ll see more of this as we progress. Not too many salaried people around anymore.


        • fauxmccoy says:


          that would be fairly normal for salaried workers, hourly workers are a different classification. again, it effectively keeps the poor from actively participating in the process. salaried workers are paid the same, whether they are at work or not. hourly workers only paid for time they have worked.

      • towerflower says:

        Last time (at least 10 yrs ago) I had a jury summons, I signed the check over to my employer and got a regular paycheck. It wasn’t cash the jury check and them making up the difference. That was with a Federal agency.

    • Tzar says:

      The gubmint, ie We should pay for it
      it’s for the proper civic maintenance of society

      • fauxmccoy says:

        tzar says

        The gubmint, ie We should pay for it
        it’s for the proper civic maintenance of society

        agreed. sadly, each state gets to determine labor law standards and that leave unscrupulous companies to do their worst, as they will. 😦

  161. She is a hardship case. Dump her and move on.

  162. Dave says:

    Is she aware that jurors are paid $30 a day?

    • ay2z says:

      West forgot to ask that, maybe he’ll bring it up when he remembers, if he is actually being ‘helpful’ for her to participate. 😉

    • Dave says:

      If she’s sequestered that should come out to $800 for a month plus meals.

    • Sleuth says:

      These young folks are not going to be stuck up in a hotel and miss out on the Kardashians, Beyonce, or Taylor Swift.

    • cielo62 says:

      Dave~ That’s still less than half of what she would make, even at minimum wage.


      • Dave says:

        True, but taxes would not be deducted and she would have essentially no expenses for the month beyond her regular bills (rent, utilities, car payment etc.)

        • cielo62 says:

          Dave~ UNLESS she’s part of the income with which to support her mother. That leaves mom with no income support at home.


      • Dave says:

        Anyway, I think she’ll be going home now.

  163. Sophia33 says:

    I think I19 is lying like many others. They know about this case.

  164. Two sides to a story says:

    Girl wants hardship.

  165. smokeegyrl says:

    THAT STARE… OMGosh that stare…. is so scary…

    • Two sides to a story says:

      He’s intense today. Feeling more desperate, probably.

      • Deborah Moore says:

        As I said upthread, I think he’s just realizing how F’d he is. That certainly not everyone thinks he was legally justified in doing what he did.
        And, I’m thinking the same thing that others of your are wondering. Holy Cow. What will he be like when the prosecution puts on their case?

      • cielo62 says:

        Two Sides~ Maybe they’ve cut back on his meds, since he keeps falling asleep.


      • Deborah Moore says:

        Or he and West got their baggies mixed up.
        Could happen?
        (Hey, this plug tastes different.)

      • Malisha says:

        I think each time one of those proFogen Preachers was up answering questions like: “A man has a right to defend himself from a thug-druggie-MMA-criminal” Fogen began to feel all thrilled and imagined he was gonna win and then sue the hell out of everybody for maliciously persecutin’ him, but then as they got removed for cause one after the other, he began to get this really bad sinking feeling in his gut …

      • Trained Observer says:

        @Malisha — Yeah, an that’s quite a gut to sink.

  166. West is trying to get her to cooperate in helping her get a hardship dismissal.

    She’s playing along.

  167. This is I-19.

    She has no interest at all in the news.

  168. Tzar says:

    West and O’Mara’s attempts at appearing folksy is irritating as fuck

    • ay2z says:

      Plays into her poor pj, needs to work and can’t be paid….

      He’s trying to find out what her motives might be and what she’s already done towards arranging pay and time off from work, an emphasis.

      • ay2z says:

        financial problems critical, but she’s not paying rent, no children to support apparently, no parents to care for, no dependants otherwise. Retired grandparents might help her, but West draws out the hankerchief … figuratively.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      tzar says

      West and O’Mara’s attempts at appearing folksy is irritating as fuck

      we’re talking 3 dollar bill material!

  169. RobertSF says:

    I don’t think BDLR quite understood this young lady’s situation. It’s not that her employer won’t make an “accommodation” for her. But like she says, she’s a low-wage hourly worker and needs all the hours she can get, and her employer isn’t going to pay her for time she’s not there.

    • Xena says:


      But like she says, she’s a low-wage hourly worker and needs all the hours she can get, and her employer isn’t going to pay her for time she’s not there.

      Have labor laws changed or are they different by State? In Illinois when a juror is paid, they bring their juror check to the employer, and the employer pays the employee the difference between their juror pay and regular wages.

      • cielo62 says:

        Xena~ Does NOT happen in Texas. You don’t work, you don’t get paid NO MATTER WHY. If for jury duty, all that you get is to keep your job. FORGET about getting paid. That is for hourly workers. I suppose its different for contract workers. I don’t get docked from the school district when I report for jury duty.


      • RobertSF says:

        I doubt Florida has such a progressive law. Even California doesn’t. Connecticut has a limited pay (5 days only and only for permanent, full-time workers) http://www5.cbia.com/hr/if-your-employee-is-called-to-jury-duty-2/

        • Xena says:


          I doubt Florida has such a progressive law. Even California doesn’t. Connecticut has a limited pay (5 days only and only for permanent, full-time workers)

          That’s sad. It’s not as if people volunteer for jury duty.

      • Xena I looked it up. and if the employer doesn’t pay for jury duty. the state pays about $3o per day

        According to Florida Statutes, during the first three days of jury duty, payment by the State is as follows:

        If your employer does NOT continue to pay your regular wages or you are NOT employed, or self-employed, then you are entitled to receive payment from the State in the amount of $15.00 per day for the first three days and $30.00 per day thereafter. When you report for jury duty, be sure to fill out a Request for Compensation form so that you will be mailed a check at the end of each week that you are in attendance either in a continued selection or on a trial. A Request for Compensation Form is not necessary if your employer is paying your regular wages while you are on jury duty.

        If jury service lasts four days or more, all jurors automatically receive $30 per day for the fourth day of service and each day thereafter, regardless of employment status.

        One check is mailed for each week of jury service and each check is mailed approximately four weeks after the week served.

        Attendance Certificates

        • Xena says:


          Xena I looked it up. and if the employer doesn’t pay for jury duty. the state pays about $3o per day

          HEY!!! THANKS! Great research and helps put my mind at rest. I would hate to see any state not compensate jurors.

    • Sleuth says:


      That was also my take on what she was saying.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Exactly … Across America, employers have taken to “hiring” part-timers, offering no benefits and keeping the worker-bee well under 40 hours to avoid full time status and related obligations.
      This isn’ t news … but it’s amazing how many older folks ( comfortably employed and salaried for decades) simply don’t get it. Hopefully BDLR is smarter than that, or someone in his office clues him.

    • cielo62 says:

      Hardship. Simple. She won’t get FIRED, but she will NOT get paid, either. Considering jury duty pays, what? $6 a day here in Houston. Can’t get even a lunch for that.


      • Trained Observer says:

        In Florida, after the first few days (three as I recall are free),, the daily pay goes up to about $30. But it’s supposed to be turned over to the employer. So she might be caught in a situation where she’s getting no hours, but is still required to turn over her check. Don’t know legalities of that.

      • towerflower says:

        I got from the posts that she was afraid to vote guilty and her boss getting pissed and worried about her job from that. Florida is a right to work state and they don’t need a reason to get rid of you if they want to……..after the jury duty of course.

  170. ay2z says:

    West getting the low down from jury consultant before questioning this pj.

    He needs to pry into mother and friend’s opinions.

    • Trained Observer says:

      My recommended shutdown response: “I never pay any attention to what my mom and her loony-tune friends think about anything.”

      • cielo62 says:

        Trained obersever~ Which would be the correct response from ANY teen/early 20-something person to say.


  171. -nobody ever watches the news, knows the news, or cares about the news.

    -no one ever talks about anything.

    -everyone walks away from any conversation where people are talking about anything

    -people seems to know people who talk about things, it’s just not them

    -and no one voted for the governor.


  172. Sleuth says:

    I-19 wants on baaaaddddd…….trying to be stealth.

  173. Sleuth says:

    I-19 doesn’t watch the news, gets all of her news from her mother.

    Her boss thinks the case if very interesting and always talks about the case.

    I find her comments interesting. How do you NOT discuss this case with your boss if they are always discussing it?

    • Malisha says:

      I’d want to know her boss’s take on the case. She could lose her job if her boss had a strong opinion of “innocence” and she was on the jury that convicted — uh effin oh!

      • Sleuth says:

        I agree. I would also be interested in he boss’s position. Maybe The Wiester will dig it out of her.

        This young lady has already missed 3 days from work. Think she’s going to try and get out of it due to hardship. That way she’ll be okay with her boss.

    • Malisha says:

      F’rinstance I heard about workers who were fired after Obama was elected because their bosses said that Obama was gonna drive their businesses into the ground, so they had to get rid of their lowest-paid (most easily replaced) workers. It was punishment because the bosses had told people to vote for that other guy — Ramrod? I forget his name.

      • cielo62 says:

        Malisha~ It was Romney. Ramrod Johnson will be gz new cellmate.


      • Deborah Moore says:

        My eyes. Owie.
        Is this what we default to when we’re bored to tears with this parade of young (potentially giggly) young young women?
        Right on. Well played. 😉

      • towerflower says:

        There was one Doctor in Central Florida who would ask his patients who they voted for, if they said Obama, he told them to find another doctor and that he would no longer treat them.

        He even put a sign up on the front of his business about it.

    • Sabrina B. says:

      Especially if her most important concern is her job. Could be she wants to please her boss.

  174. Bill Sheaffer: I 14 is gone. just walked out by a deputy

    • Malisha says:

      Let’s not jump to conclusions either about Judge Nelson or about BDLR. I think the fact that Corey SHOWED UP for the cameras in the first days of jury selection was a sign that she is not going to let this case lose. I’m gonna be a long-distance runner with this one.

    • ay2z says:

      sounds bad, walked out by law enforcement official. We know that happens every time a pj leaves the courtroom, doens’t mean anything, but some reading twitter may not know that.

      BS’s remark about the deputy is redundant.

      • ay2z says:

        “gone” can be interpreted different ways, one negatively about the pj to those not aware it’s normal to be ‘gone’ when finished.

      • BS can see the juror’s being led to their auto’s, they are parked right behind him….so he reports who is led to their car. I do not assume anything :). Have watched BS thru out the Anthony trial, he reports facts and his opinion on the law and court room tactics 🙂

  175. Kathi Belich, WFTV @KBelichWFTV
    Defense team found something on line and showed it to the judge and she sent I-14 out of court for now. Defense had asked 1/2
    Kathi Belich, WFTV @KBelichWFTV
    Or at least in #Zimmerman ‘s direction.

    possibly his mom’s signing a petition online

  176. Judge Nelson needs to be more decisive. Looking like, he who speaks last, wins.

    Not good.

    • ay2z says:

      Worrisome, there was a need to get rid of Judge Lester for a reason, and it was not about bias, it was ability and experience and his ability to be fair with better repuation to handle cases (?).

    • Malisha says:

      The good judges are not the toughest ones, unfortunately.

      I believe, however, that she is equal to the task of running this trial the right way.

    • ay2z says:

      Does a judge have resources to get unbiased case handling advice when in a position never before experienced? Or is the judge flying on their own completely?

      Resources of administration of course, research and legal opinions yes, but what about the role of the chief judge for the county, is that a resource?

  177. smokeegyrl says:

    is watching the Hodge Twins on youtube… wont’ post it on here… these guys are crazy… they talking about Fogen’s daddy.

  178. Boyd says:

    he sounds like my youngest son, very quiet. But aware enough to know the basics of right and wrong.

    Anybody notice Zimmerman is not smirking today

  179. O’Mara is knocking himself out trying to persuade JN to excuse this guy.

  180. Dave says:

    He sounds like a pothead. We need him.

  181. MollyK says:

    He was a junior at the time of the killing, so he has just graduated from HS this month. He is probably only 18. He sounds fine to me. I find it hard to believe that his mother didn’t have a strong opinion about the case, given that she had a son the same age as Trayvon. Either she was horrified, or she thought that Trayvon somehow contributed to the situation. In either case, she would have talked to her son about avoiding dangerous situations and conflict.

  182. smokeegyrl says:

    noticing the difference between O’Mara and West… O’Mara takes the objections okay… well West… goes Bezerk… lmaoooo ….

    This young person is still young… and still probably lives with his mom… is wondering what he thinks about wearing a hoody and walking in a community being followed.

  183. Tzar says:

    He seems like a follower

  184. The redundancy drives me crazy. I swear like half of the questions have already been answered.

  185. disappointed says:

    Mr Zimmerman’s safety? LMAO he still had a gun, he was plenty safe. He showed he is not afraid to use it.

    • ay2z says:

      He was trained and mentored by a professional in his selection, choice, use, practice, permitting qualifications (including SYG, self-defense and all that according to his pro mentor himself who was on scene and involved soon after the killing took place) and this was from the perspective of a someone trained and qualified through in law enforecement agencies where they had authority to follow, stop, question and kill).

      • ay2z says:

        “stopping power” was a prime consideration for a dog threat situation vs other options, and hollow points are designed to break apart and cause as much pain and destruction as possible, and not exit cleanly. Fogen knew all this, and knew he had to be ‘on’ his mark especially if he did not have hollow points that would go through a window or wall into his neighbor’s child’s crib or through their door.

        No one should ever have to do neighborhood watch function or not, with hollow points ever for burglary. Hollow points loaded in Shellie’s gun that killed Trayvon, might have been useful if one of these non-white bad people, would attack her alone at home and be on top of her in an assault..

  186. fauxmccoy says:

    sorry to be late, but it was lovely to sleep in. did i miss anything good?

  187. Two sides to a story says:

    I think he’s a reliable juror.

  188. disappointed says:

    Riots? Oh come on!

  189. amsterdam1234 says:

    That nen call is going to be their biggest problem. If GZ doesn’t take the stand it will be GZ following Trayvon and next the screams.

    • Malisha says:

      From the very FIRST time I heard the NEN call, way long before I heard the 911 Scream Call, I knew that Fogen had murdered Trayvon Martin. He SAYS IT: “These assholes, they ALways get aWAY…” He wasn’t having it; he was gonna prevent this particular asshole from “getting away.” This was his prey.

      • Deborah Moore says:

        Agreed, but apparently that wasn’t enough to got a premeditated charge.
        PS, I should say I do have a slight bias against big fat arrogant pigs.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        I am trying to think back. I thought GZ was morally guilty from the very beginning, but after the nen call I knew he was guilty.

  190. Fred, do you agree with BS on this point?:

    Bill Sheaffer: if you watch the defense/state watch closely for ‘non’ race issues. i believe they each have a specific juror in mind. state=young/relate. defense=gun rights/older. this is basic but might help as you watch/listen

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Yet there are certainly youth invested in gun rights and older people invested in civil rights.

      • Dave says:

        There are also people of all ages invested in civil rights AND gun rights. There are also old white geezers who can relate to Trayvon.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Older — white as often as black — people who value life, civil rights, and have learned there’s no percentage to running off half-cocked despite whatever alleged rationale, are not gravitating to the Fogen camp.

        Their consensus: See something you didn’t like? Call the cops and stay in your damn shruck until further notice.

        Younger — white as often as black — people who support both civil and gun rights likely have been quicker to spot Fogen for what he is … a chronic loser who needs to belly up to a gun to feel like a somebody,

        Their consensus: Same as above.

      • towerflower says:

        me: for the state but I’m older and believe in gun rights but don’t believe Z acted appropriately or used common sense as a gun owner.

    • SoulSistaWoo says:

      I tend to agree with Sheaffer.

    • I’m seeing the same thing.

  191. He heard the NEN call and heard the dispatcher tell GZ not to follow TM, but GZ followed.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Nor will the jurors have only the prosecutions word for it, that gz continued to follow. Since the given times and locations will show that, gz is claiming that he was attacked at a time when, both him and Trayvon would still have been on their phones. The defense can provide no other alternative solution for this, without impeaching their client.

  192. Damn, I’m afraid he’ll be dismissed for cause.

  193. disappointed says:

    NEN operator: Are you following him? GZ yes. That will be part of trial. No need to forget it just yet.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      gz will have to take the stand to explain why that should not have caused the kid to fear him. He’d better not resort to “skipping” or “moving quickly away”, Because the jurors will not be able to accept that as reason to believe gz’s characterization of the child’s mindset at that time.

  194. SoulSistaWoo says:

    When ask if Fogen actions were improper, PJ I4 answered with a firm YES.

  195. Xena says:

    GZ’s body language speaks volumes when he hears the truth about his actions, such as “following.” If he’s that way now, what on earth is he going to do at trial?

  196. Sleuth says:

    This young pj sounds so sad………:-(

  197. His mother’s opinion was TM was unarmed and GZ killed him.

  198. smokeegyrl says:

    he sounds like a skateboarder or snowboarder… oops.. did I just profile… muh bad… a computer geek maybe…

      • smokeegyrl says:

        oh yeah… lol huh… I’m in Colorado… got dat snow still in the Rockies… hahaha… ok okay… water surfing…

      • Malisha says:

        Since this case there have been many snow jobs in Florida, Professor. And two days before the State of Florida executed Martin Grossman for an unintended murder showing much less “depraved mind and ill will” than this case, there was snow in Florida. I can remember it.

    • ay2z says:

      Snowboarders are in a pot culture. That’s a given, yep. At least there’s been a lot of info on that via more recent winter olympics, drug tests, medals withdrawn issues, apologies by atheletes, etc, and media about the ‘culture’ of boarders.

      Summers no snow, therefore boarding takes on wheels.

      People can apply assumptions and faulty logic to this.

  199. SoulSistaWoo says:

    I14 has a very clear memory of the fact that TM did not have a weapon. I think he can relate to TM… Youth, Sweatshirt, Possible Tall.

  200. First info he got at school from friends was TM was innocent.

    Subsequent news reports weren’t as generous toward TM.

    Later heard TM was scared and punched GZ in the nose, breaking it.

  201. Dave says:

    Probably a follower but he could easily identify with Trayvon.

  202. Two sides to a story says:

    Fogen’s got the narrow eyes.

  203. RobertSF says:

    Am I being harsh or unreasonable? It just seems so many PJs are the dumbest cows in the herd. This guy doesn’t know what Neighborhood Watch is. He speaks in a duh kind of voice and can’t speak three words without saying uhm. Can’t they speak in loud, clear voices and full sentences?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I think you’re being harsh. He’s an intelligent kid. Soft-spoken. Careful.

      • RobertSF says:

        All right. Fair enough! 🙂

      • Malisha says:

        Neighborhood Watch is something you learn about when you’re parents. I learned about it because I lived in several dangerous cities and had heard of (and met associates of) Curtis Sliwa in NY — who, by the way, would not only convict Fogen but who would enjoy HANGING HIM. Anyway, NW is not something a younger person would know about, neither would he necessarily learn about HOA. You don’t have them in apartment buildings or dorms.

    • ay2z says:

      The pool of 500 has been eliminated of any people smart enough to get out of jury duty, physicians and other professionals for example. But yes, sure seems that people don’t care about the world around them. Students may have a reason not to listen to news if they are preoccupied with studies, exams, social events at year end, etc.

    • I am allowing for this kid being fresh out of high school and not too interested in anything but his raging hormones 🙂

    • Dave says:

      He’s young and probably a bit intimidated by the situation. I think he’s OK. Give him a break.

    • Deborah Moore says:

      Hey, he’s young. Do you know anyone this age?
      One of the opportunities we have here is to see Other People.
      And, no they don’t all live under a rock. Younger people have different priorites than older retired folks. Right?

      • RobertSF says:

        Yeah, maybe I was born old. I remember my Dad saying to me sharply, “Shut up!” when I answered his questions with, “Uh, um, er, I, well, you know, um.” “Form the sentence in your mind and THEN speak it!”

      • Malisha says:

        I will wager that if you had grabbed up Trayvon Martin right before 2/26/2012 and thrown him on a “mock jury” in civics class and asked him all about current events in Miami, he would not have much knowledge of them. He knew from DeeDee, his buddies, the kids he hung with, and his own world. He wouldn’t even necessarily have read about recent murders in Miami at the time!

      • Deborah Moore says:

        I have to do that with my son from time to time, but he’s Asperger’s – on the spectrum – so I guess it’s a little more understandable.
        Sound’s like your dad was Old too.
        Sorry about that. Have you considered taking up a Young hobby? Surfing or Rock and Roll guitar. We can always learn a New Attitude.

  204. Two sides to a story says:

    THe defense will try to shed this kid.

  205. ay2z says:

    Each time (not constantly watching) GZ hears someone say ‘he followed’, he gets his pen to notepaper.

    • Deborah Moore says:

      Even without his sleazy smiling at PJ’s who seem to already think he’s innocent, does anyone think GZ is surprised that so many folks seem to believe he’s guilty? Is this part of the trial bringing a reality home to him that hasn’t existed in his tiny world?

      • Malisha says:

        Hannity knows Fogen followed. Remember his question, “Do you regret that you got out of your truck…to follow Trayvon Martin that night?”

        A: Nossir. (self-righteous “smack-me-now-HARD” look)

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          gz lacks the ability to effectively parse the inputs he is receiving. Everything he sees and is able to deal with is the “shell of life” that appear on the surface of his observations. He cannot look into the intricacies that give rise to the facade being presented.

          Very many times, if you listen to people with opposing ideas very carefully, you will come to understand that their differences arise from certain basics that they both accept. Thus, to get them to work together is usually no more complex than, simply asking them to peel back the layers of their opposition, and join in working on those basics that they agree on. Then bring everyone forward together, to the places where the divides begin to appear.

          When everyone sees the divisions appear, and understand the validity of them, the opponents usually find themselves working on their opponents hypotheticals. The upshot is the parties no longer see themselves as opponents but as colleges again.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        When a humorous moment reveals, gz takes great pains to try and join in, in hopes of humanizing himself for the jurors. Of course his attorney and the juror expert, realize it doesn’t help him to be seen laughing, because later on, when the deluge of evidence overwhelms them, that laughter is going to count very heavily against him. So they race to stop him.

        But he clearly sees a need to try and humanize himself, meaning he knows that he is a monster.

        • cielo62 says:

          Lonnie~ The ONLY “humanizing” thing he  could do is be remorseful. BUT we know he isn’t so there goes that out the window!


          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Right you are, a capacity for remorse would have manifest in the immediate aftermath of the crime, most especially when he had learned from Serino that the kid was not a thug or criminal, but just trying to walk home from the store with some snacks.

            But, even if he felt secure that Trayvon was a criminal, because he had others who called him to the scene, thus he could feel that his opinion was in line with theirs, he still should have been able to do an about face on the issue, once he learned the true facts. The true facts meant nothing at all to him, and he persists in his beliefs, way past their own credibility. Refuses to accept that he was wrong, because… Either way he decided to take the fatal shot, not just on his own, but without any provocation at all. He simply decided that killing this kid is what he wanted to do. That is the exact definition of a monster in my book.

          • cielo62 says:

            Lonnie~ You are So right! A monster that has never held accountable in his life… until now.


    • willisnewton says:

      Gee, I wonder why? Isn’t that exactly what he himself contemporaneously admitted to?

  206. This fellow is I-14, White/late teens or early 20s.

  207. Two sides to a story says:

    I’m sure this guy’s knowledge of HLN makes the defense wary. But he’s careful to not commit to either side.

    • ay2z says:

      But MOM has been on HLN, Taaffe lots of times, Joe Oliver too, and they have had lots of the photos that will not come into evidence but will work on juror’s impression in favor of self-defense, even if the smoke is not weed, even if the pot plants and red liquid, were not Trayvon’s personal property, or even photos he took, but may have been sent to him by others, impression will stick in their minds as ‘true’ as to truth in what you see.

  208. Deborah Moore says:

    It does seem like the media is on trial here.
    Does anyone else think that?

  209. Sorry we are late, returning after lunch recess, we are back.

  210. truthseeker66 says:

    Is it me or does RS always wears a white top?

  211. Kathi Belich, WFTV@KBelichWFTVBack in session. I-14 is up. He is a white man who appears to be twenty-something.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      In school. Possibly young 20s.

    • ay2z says:

      AOL news, heard Trayvon attacked and didn’t have a weapon on him, NW Mr. Zimmerman “called police while following him”, source talked about it at school, says where he originally heard about the case, does FB, HLN a source, he thought this case had ended before he was called, no opinion formed he says, ‘sometimes’ media doesn’t get it right, doesn’t remember any news conference related to case, has not kept up with it, got summons and before came to court, got posts from family and friends, had a few people you might be on the z case, that’s all they posted, he says, no additional info except June 10 jury selection, he responded to them but didn’t elaborate to them.

    • @hinkster4ever you are a Godsend. Thank you so much.

  212. ay2z says:

    Biased headlining by WFTV has to be purposeful, maybe not intending one side, but emphasizing bias in the cell phone photos with added header ‘graphic images’, so even if you don’t know what’s there, you have a warning about Trayvon’s collection of images to suggest negative connotations.

    Second article headlined with today’s headline under the trial section, is ‘bloody photos.’ of the defendant.

    Bias of this news station, intended or not for anything other than sensationalism and hype and ratings, is undeniable.

    I’m personally not using them as a source for video, from this point onward. Including their legal analyst discussions.

    • Tzar says:

      I’m personally not using them as a source for video, from this point onward. Including their legal analyst discussions.

      good decision

    • type1juve says:

      I noticed that too. They also leave the live chat remarks biased against Trayvon up for view longer than remarks that are neutral or for Trayvon. It’s subliminal because you’re looking at the lies O’mara has put out there while trying to watch the jury selection. I won’t be watching them anymore.

  213. Xena says:

    Back in session.

  214. Two sides to a story says:

    Man, Judge Nelson jumps right in, barely sits down when she reopens court.

  215. MollyK says:

    I missed most of West’s questioning of this PJ. While I was listening, I didn’t hear anything that could justify eliminating him. I’m not sure whether he would be a good juror or not. On one hand, he is clearly intelligent and rational. On the other, he seems very invested in denying the existence of racism, and he seems to have bought the line that GZ was defending himself. It’s hard to imagine an AA person being so incurious about the killing of an AA teenager in his home county. You’d think that, even if he wanted to take GZ’s side, he would have informed himself of the facts so that he could make a good case for him.

    He seems to have a responsible job, so he may have bought into the worldview that we live in a meritocracy. Did anyone catch whether or not he has children? If so, they are grown because he said a few times that he lives only with his wife. He did say that he has family all over the world. If any of these people are his grown children, then we can assume that they are high-achieving. He may have raised them to do their best and not complain about discrimination.

    I think that he would be very reluctant to vote “guilty” in this case, but he is smart enough that he might not be able to go against the facts.

    • MollyK says:

      Clarence Thomas comes to mind. I was furious during his confirmation hearings when he disparaged his sister, who was on welfare. He seems not to understand that his comparatively privileged background (he was sent away to a good school while she did not have the same educational opportunities) might have contributed to the differences in their lives.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I didn’t quite see him as a Clarence Thomas type (he’s a real piece of work), but what you said about not complaining about working hard and not complaining about discrimination rings a bell. Some AA don’t like to sound like victims even as they experience discrimination. I don’t think he’d have a problem convicting Z based on his answers about self-defense being complicated. He didn’t trot out the Treestump-style answer for that.

      • MollyK says:

        You’re right, Two sides, that the Thomas comparison is unfair. I am expecting the evidence against GZ to be very strong, and I can’t see this man voting against strong evidence. He would probably be good for our side. I imagine the defense will want to get rid of him. It’s going to be hard for them to come up with a good reason, unless there’s something I missed.

      • Malisha says:

        Thomas! My main objection to him was that he was stupid and proudly so! A journalist asked him what his response was to the papers filed by Anita Hill (something like 60 pages– LONG) and he said, “I never read that stuff — I was not interested in reading a pack of lies.” Well how are you supposed to be a Supreme Court Justice if you CHOOSE not to read something that is filed in a case and that someone has placed on the record! I would have said: Didn’t read? OFF THE BENCH!

    • Tzar says:

      I think the prosecution can show him the way to a guilty verdict

      • Deborah Moore says:

        I’m going to go with your opinion. I have a few friends who are conservative but still caring. I have one friend of color who is conservative, yet fair minded about common decency, but is a person who accepts No Excuses. He say’s Tryin’ is Lyin’. He’s harsher than I am, but I have loved him so long that I can accept that that’s the way he views life.
        You wouldn’t want to have to sit through me being in the pj’s position.
        I’d have to lie if I wanted on the jury. Did I ever read opinions online about this case.
        Well, yes. I’ve read Fred Leatherman’s blogs, but, well, I don’t really Recall exactly what he said. Just spelled out how the system works.
        (All y’all believe that one, right?)

  216. ay2z says:

    Media individuals on camera may have been learning from Big Willie’s fashionista comment about ‘block’ colour use. We have Kathy Belich wearing a bright lime green block of colour, and a couple rows behind her, another reporter wearing a block of bright hot colour from another part of the color wheel. (trying to be equal on the spelling of colo*r)

    By beginning of trial proper, we might have the media section littered with bright almost fluorescent blocks to make this look like a drive down the big box strip of competing bright and large ‘blockbusting’ signage.

  217. THis Man isnt right!! Dont trust Him

  218. If this one makes it 35 of 40 is the count now per BS. All have made it thru except the one attorney who was excused.

  219. Deborah Moore says:

    Lunchbreak means I can run out to the store.
    Thanks for good comments. See ya all in a bit.

  220. Recess until 1:10 pm EDT.

  221. Schenee says:

    THis Man isnt right!! Dont trust Him

  222. Sleuth says:

    This guy is being very stealth.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Still can’t tell who for. He could be a good juror – or . . . ! I’m confused on this one.

    • whonoze says:

      I don’t think so. Given his comments about not liking the demos and thinking that GZ was defending himself, I’m guessing he considers himself “post-racial.” So I think he was answering truthfully, and not guilefully. He might be a fair and impartial juror. It seemed to me West was trying to get him bumped, perhaps due to a nod from Hirshhorn, but he (West) may have alienated the PJ in the process.

      • Malisha says:

        I do not believe he’s a leader. In fact if he were on a majority-white jury he would definitely be a follower. JMO.

  223. Two sides to a story says:

    He’s really tiptoeing it over SPD, but it might be because of the juror who was outed publicly.

  224. Sleuth says:

    What does he mean by “WE” haven’t proved that” in reference to this being racially motivated?

  225. parrot says:

    He said that if they marched its because they feel they have been wronged, but doesn’t think it “appropriate” to march because of high emotions.

    • RobertSF says:

      There’s a current of thought among blacks that says “you shouldn’t stir things up.” It’s based on fear, shame, denial, etc. It’s the black counterpart to the white, “We all got along together just fine until those damn Yankees came stirring things up.”

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Yes, there’s a segment that just wants to get along and don’t want to appear radical.

    • My question is when is it “appropriate” to march? Did he think the marches during the Civil Rights era was “appropriate”?

      • cielo62 says:

        Many people are afraid of consequences and repercussions. He probably feared hightened racial tensions after the demonstrations, but DAMN! Those demonstrations were multi-ethnic! MANY people regardless of race hate injustice and murder!

      • In my best southern drawl…SG2 is “fixin” to take y’all to church with Dr. King’s quote “The Right to Protest for Right”. Let the church say Amen!

      • rnewton32 says:

        I agree. Does he realize his dumb behind would probably be hanging from a tree (since he is an education seeking man–and good ole boys don’t like that!) had no one marched. Unbelievable.

  226. Two sides to a story says:

    Somebody send this guy a link to Sr.s book!

  227. Two sides to a story says:

    Fogen either thinks he can blast this guy with his eyes or he’s nodding out.

  228. He is a civil rights era person, remembers the marches.

  229. KittySP says:

    cant help chuckle listening to this witnesses voice…he reminds me of the young man from 30 rock…especially when he just referenced Casey Anthony case and how he couldn’t believe that was a trial.

  230. Recalls Martin Family lawyers appearing at a press conference kinda sorta maybe about getting ready to go to court. Not sure.

    Denies talking about this case with his wife although he admits discussing the Casey Anthony case with her.

  231. bettykath says:

    I like him. Would like him as a neighbor. Don’t have an opinion of him for the jury.

  232. Two sides to a story says:

    THis guy reminds me of an old AA friend of mine. He’s truly quite liberal but to look and listen to him, he comes off as quite conservative. I could be deceived here though.

  233. West apologizing for bouncing around . . . again.

  234. It’s West.


  235. Don’t any of these PJs have any curiosity?

  236. Two sides to a story says:

    I don’t think either side likes him! I could be wrong.

  237. MollyK says:

    He seems to accept the defense position that Trayvon had some responsibility for his death. He also seems suspiciously incurious.

  238. MollyK says:

    The two young female interns are behaving themselves today. Someone must have told them that whispering and giggling at the defense table was inappropriate!

  239. Denies having an opinion about guilt or innocence or an opinion about any other issue in this case.

  240. Wow, this is interesting. GZ is not smiling. In fact, he is more scowling at this PJ.

  241. disappointed says:

    Is MOM on his laptop reading the outhouse?

  242. smokeegyrl says:

    This PJ is confusing me and I’m getting goose bumps on my body from his speech… or my fan is making me cold…

  243. Two sides to a story says:

    Zowie, Fogen’s gaze is locked on this guy.

  244. amsterdam1234 says:

    You all noticed that all of CNN’s audience seems to live in Seminole county?

  245. Two sides to a story says:

    Bernie’s working hard to “get” this guy.

  246. Thinks the protests stirred up feelings that were not helpful.

    Believes the black community should have allowed the process to work.

    Did not believe it was necessary and it got the community riled up.

  247. disappointed says:

    I am getting the impression he thinks had it been 1 year it would have been ok, but 1 month not so much?

  248. Born in the 50s, and is questioning the necessity of the black leaders coming to town because it “causes problems”
    he states an opinion here, that he thought it was inappropriate.

  249. MollyK says:

    Wow! Thought marches for justice for Trayvon were not necessary. I thought I’d misheard the first time, but he repeated it. Thought it was unnecessary for Sharpton, etc., to come to Sanford. Got the community riled up.

    • smokeegyrl says:

      I think he is saying this to get into the jury.

    • GirlP says:

      Oh, don’t stir the pot and everyone will be ok…my aunt is like that (she’s 81 years old) it comes from fear fortunately there are people who do stir the pot if not it would still be 1865 for AA’s. He most likely will never accept challenging the status quo when the status quo is clearly wrong.

    • pat deadder says:

      Witness is it I 5 The AA.I feel sorry for this PJ.. people where he works know he got a summons so god knows what was said to him..It is sad to say but this gentleman might feel he needs to be careful about what he says.

  250. smokeegyrl says:

    ok, I just got back to my pc… so I was going to ask the question if this PJ is black American… Just read the comments… so need to ask… lol This is interesting on the things he is saying… mmmm…