Friday, June 14, 2013
Good morning:
According to the Miami Herald, the pool of PJs passed for cause on the issues of pretrial publicity and hardship to serve has reached 25. The lawyers have questioned 34 PJs.
Two important announcements yesterday:
(1) The jury will be sequestered during the trial, which is expected to last 2-4 weeks.
(2) The lawyers will continue to question the PJs one at a time out of the presence of the others regarding pretrial publicity and hardship to serve until a pool of 40 PJs has been passed for cause.
When that target has been reached, the lawyers will question the jurors in the presence of each other on other subjects, such as whether anyone knows any of the witnesses who will be testifying in the case, whether anyone has been a victim of a violent crime or knows someone who has been, and whether anyone works in law enforcement or knows someone who does.
The court needs to end up with a pool of 30 PJs passed for cause before the lawyers begin to exercise their peremptory challenges.
Each side has a total of 10 peremptory challenges they can exercise (6 for jurors and 1 each for 4 alternates). If both sides were to exercise all of their peremptory challenges, 20 PJs would be eliminated leaving a jury of 6 with 4 alternates.
Recall that the lawyers do not have to give a reason to support a peremptory challenge unless they challenge a person who is a member of a racial minority. The SCOTUS prohibited the use of peremptory challenges to exclude blacks from juries in Batson v. Kentucky, 476 U.S. 79 (1986).
You can reasonably anticipate that the State will object, if the defense uses a peremptory challenge to exclude a black PJ from the jury. If that happens, the defense will have to provide a credible reason other than race to survive the objection.
Note the occasional battles that break out when one side or the other wants to get rid of a PJ they do not like with a challenge for cause, but they cannot quite lay an adequate foundation that the PJ cannot be fair and impartial. The other side will counter that effort by doing everything possible to rehabilitate the PJ in hopes of forcing the opponent to use a peremptory challenge to get rid of the juror.
Peremptory challenges are like bullets. A lawyer is helpless when he or she runs out of peremptory challenges during jury selection.
Here’s the link to the livestream coverage.
Court resumes at 9 am EDT.
http://wildabouttrial.com/george-zimmerman-live-stream.html
See you in court.
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Frederick Leatherman Law Blog 
Morbid obeasty creepy crackerassedniggarapist
Our client was ever so compliant after he shot an murdered a CHILD for non compliance with neighbourhood regulation an statues according to his rules.
Walking whilst Blahck in any an all weather conditions is illegal.
There is no curfew or time of day no cut of point 24 …7
Being a Child an walking whilst BLAHCK same as above but twice as illegall
Any person whilst being Blahck not compliant with his Authauritie will face summery instan execution.
A Glasgow test.
Id like to give him a GLAASGOW KISS.
..
ffff Stop tortureing this wee lass
As if your client caused her enough HURT for a lifetime day 13 includeing voire dire were do ch 9 get day 13 from of zimmspin trial if so not luckyday for foggagge.!
bring up her face book account postings if u dare skellator
An State will bring in fooggaes Facebook tugboat dag niggity.
No shes not your client he didn’t feel like this dude was packin heat an I better go an beat him to death with ny pristine fists into his pristine stupid face
What hideous creature is this skellator.
confront doesn’t mean fight.
only assaulting was from you client first TRAYVON
An the the entire WORLDS Intellegence.
West made another stupid. In trying to turn things around by saying that Trayvon pursued and attacked gz, he was claiming that, that might have been what happened outside Brandy Green’s house.
Well gee… That would mean that gz was running to Trayvon’s home while Trayvon was pursuing him there. What was gz going to do once he got to Trayvon’s home? Signal to be allowed inside?
Anyway West just put gz 262 feet south of the “T”, that’s going to be hard to fix. May he have eternal “winds”.
No shes not your client he didn’t feel like this dude was packin heat an I better go an beat him to death with ny pristine fists into his pristine stupid face
yes sir a think he did say the creepy rapist dude smelled of phartt so there coulda beenmo wind Sir
Madam Loo has placed upon the defense team “The Curse of the Eternal Winds”. Any day now they should begin sounding off.
Told you couldn’t make this up my SPECIAL GAL points out
West an M O M an FOGGAGGES entire story an defence
RETARDED
from bed of an table office an Cat hq
Of colin a black
JN seems a little irritated with both sides today.
New post up:
Zimmerman trial and the strategic use of peremptory challenges
cielo62, Maturity is a rough road for some.
it can be hard, i don’t want to see youtube vids about elderly people get hurt, just was too much. or read about that stuff when choosing.
appreciate your understanding.
jus finished reading the daily kos article you posted. fogen referred to Trayvon as a suspect 18 times.
did you see these, so well put together i have no ,doubt the State will present this damning evidence. factual that will not be objected or denied, and jury:convicting:
God’s Plan v God Sent Part 1, Part 2 and Part 3 if you have time please watch them
HA, bet hannity was subpoenaed. deposed and now will testify, even though he stated he would not report what he and fogen discussed. later former fogen defense uhrig stated hannity would not tell them what that conversation was about.
Hi Professor and All!
I really like to thank all of you for the comments and updates! I am trying to play catch-up, so your comments are most helpful. Also, If anyone would like to review any of the jurors, AxiomAmnesia on youtube lists each video by juror number.
http://www.youtube.com/user/AxiomAmnesia/videos
great! Which number was the lady married to a police and she said it was Trayvon’s fault. I missed some of that.
I think that woman is E81.
[Comment removed as offensive]
AMEN!
son thats’ a too bit much, we DO NOT wish or pray impending harm such as you wrote to befall those we oppose, not here:
Just some place urban and populated, with people who don’t look like him, or think like him. And get his ASS beat “not killed” and please let some youth or anybody record and post it on youtube so I can laugh.
please refrain from such type talk
ic2fools~ More like in “Finnegan’s Wake” where the racist politician is turned into a black man so that he could experience it. Now THAT would be funny!
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no can’t agree with you on that one cielo62, comment is serious reality.
iirc this is the second time a comment rude comment has been made, it wasn’t meant to be funny. even written as a joke that i couldn’t laugh or make light of it.
ic2fools~ ‘sigh’ True, true. Not funny at all. But I see he’s been banned. Maturity is a rough road for some.
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New post up:
Zimmerman: Day 5 of Jury Selection Completed
Not quite up sir, it says page not found. Lol
D’FUCK
well i guess we KNOW WHAT HE was doing in hiding.
what a dirty old man……. This BITCH done, wrote a book…..
they just need to stop it.
D’FUCK
well i guess we KNOW WHAT HE was doing in hiding.
what a dirty old man……. This BITCH done, wrote a book…..
they just need to stop it.
[We don’t need to advertise this man’s book]
A waste of electronic space, self-serving and apparently from the portions I read above, Mr. Z Sr. just outed himself as a racist.
that that person could be involved on any level in a legal system scares me????????
there is not an honest bone in the entire fogen family apparently.
BillT, in Virginia, 90% of the legal system is no better than Fogenpop Senior, and at least 1% of it is even worse.
grew up right next door to that state, got married in clintwood Va. in fact…….folks from Ky. feared being arrested just for driving through the area of pound down to norton Va.
I was tempted to buy this, like I did with Osterman’s, just to see what was said and look for inconsistencies. Even though Amazon is selling it for only $3.99, I still can’t bring myself to hit the buy button. I wouldn’t give 2 cents to that family.
Good you didn’t fall for the yoke, he’s hoping that a few thousand curiosity seekers would give him a small bundle. While they’d find they’re wasting their time and money, because he has nothing of substance to offer anyone at all.
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN SR……
SIR,TAKE 5 FUCKING SEATS; YOU DIRTY OLD MAN…….
http://www.mediaite.com/online/zimmermans-father-blames-boston-bombings-on-eric-holders-decision-to-investigate-trayvons-death/
Fogen Sr. just outed himself as the racist he truly is. Now we know for certain.
What, we had doubts before?
Only doubt I had was whether he could write English — not a requirement for Magistrates in the Commonwealth of Virginia, actually — but NO DOUBT about his bigotry. “My son’s not a racist; if he hated Asians he would have killed one of THEM instead.”
I couldn’t believe he even named groups and people. He even called the funeral director that handled TM body a racist.
LMAO Fogen Sr. admitted that the family judges people due to race
He stated “If Asians were suspicious, Fogen would do the same to them”
@evokid7. Thanks for the link. From the article;
Some words speak volumes. What Papa Zim is saying is that the FBI’s ongoing investigation has him upset and worried. I say GOOD! He no doubt knows that he is being tracked on the internet and the FBI has all of his mean-spirited and denigrating comments about Trayvon and Trayvon’s parents.
Pop Zimmerman had some part in the Wolfinger mess, you can bet on it. Whether the feds want to identify that or not is the only question in my mind. Corey might have worked a deal with the feds to leave Wolfinger and the SPD alone if she prosecuted Fogen properly — that’s a possible.
Yeah sure. Like the Feds have a total of 7 people???
I bet hate-crime investigation is a totally different branch and office than terror-suspect-checking. He’s being bigoted against the immigrant US citizen bombers, too — they were not clearly identified potential terrorism suspects, they’d been interviewed and cleared.
Wait for it
He’s gonna blame 911 on Trayvon next
He’s playing the conspiracy angle to the fullest
aussie…..ding, ding! Exactly the FBI is made up of different investigators/specialties. They have separate investigators/departments for civil rights, terrorism, kidnappings, major fraud, etc. He wants to make it seem like the entire resources of the FBI were centered on one man. Never happened.
No, no, no… The retired magistrate from Virginia knows that there are only 3 (count them three) FBI men in the nation, and all three of them were forced by the racists, screaming for a trial, to come down to Sanford and leave the entire nation unprotected! What a wonderful book, now we know the truth! Anyone wanting a copy of this revealing tomb can find one in the dumpster under the I-95 overpass.
Okay, what a fucking loon
Jesus, Lord Have Mercy
It’s great to see the many responses from white people about this idiot and his book. Look at the comments to the article. There are more here: http://thinkprogress.org/media/2013/06/14/2162501/george-zimmermans-father-says-the-true-racists-are-all-african-american/?mobile=nc
O’Mara’s presser. He claims that the dismissed (“anti-Zimmerman”) juror was attempting to get to the other jurors in the jury pool. Dunno–not quite what I had read. I understand he was p-o-ed that someone leaked his name. But, he was plainly suggesting a conspiracy of some sort.
Interesting that after talking quite a bit about that particular dismissed juror, and the reasons for his dismissal, and how awful it would have been had he not been “caught,” O’Mara demured when asked about the reason for dismissing the woman who believed in Zimmerman’s innocence–citing the Judge’s preference.
Eh, OM is blowing smoke for his wallets. And to poke at the prosecution.
The CTH had his name and posts up very quickly, wonder if the Z camp released it all to them.
Is it possible they’ll have a jury seated by mid-week next week? Seems to be moving quickly.
Good, reporter asking him about West exposing the lady JP’s workplace.
I missed the rest of that pj, did West expose even more of that workplace? Geeze, chalk one more up for him, if he did.
It went by awfully fast. I have to watch it again. They zipped her out of the courtroom quickly. I would think he’d get in some trouble for it.
OM also brushed the question off fast and changed topics. LOL.
@TS, he (West) hasn’t got into trouble for anything else he’s done and, the same goes for O’mara. they have both turned this case into a JOKE.
@Two sides. West is an interrogator and likes to intimidate. In general, most people think that the more personal info someone like West has about them, the more vulnerable their safety and livelihood becomes. If he knows where you work, your occupation, your home address, what keeps him from disrupting your life?
That intimidating, threatening nature is so engrained in West that he cannot put it aside when it’s not necessary.
Swayin west, now i understand why omar barked at him: “what are you doing”
that’s why that pjs’ examination ended so quickly.
an west is the lawyer mr. cracker chose then supportered by blogging and emailing to have omar. replaced west ahahahahaaaa…..
ic2fools~ WAIT! If he’s swaying, does that mean he’s on drugs or sumpin’? High at the bench and swaying!?
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@cielo62
yup he’s on sumpin’ alright, all highed up swaying at the bench. unhuh he actin like hes’ sippin ”miso stoopid juice’
ic2fools~ “Miso” is Japanese Onion soup. Good stuff! Not likely to make you sway.
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apologies cielo62,for not explaining. i do know that too. but i chose to use miso instead of me so
in other words instead of typing me so stoopid, i type miso stoopid.
in many of my comments/replies i’ll write mi instead of me also. like mi thinks and such
good catch 🙂
ic2fools~ just messin’ wichya. I thought you’d be saying “drank” or whatever it is that is made with Skittles and cough syrup…
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lol got it…
i read long ago over at nuthouse about that. from what i read and the video they posted of a person was literally on falling. holding onto a rail for support. it was very sad. i don’t know about it or or cared too research info on that one.
musta had a LEAN lunch 😉
fauxie! okay fauxie and you too cielo62 i chuckled alright i laughed, not fair ‘LEAN lunch’ lol an a Lean breakfast. what was he thinkin ‘ah purty yella tie’..
remember mr. cracker endorsed west replacing omar, blogged, discussed even posted he emailed him to get rid of omar.
that’s got to be embarassing for mr. cracker. omar barkin at west ‘what are you doing’ after he swayed over too him realizing he had gave out pjs’ job location,
@fauxi not sure if you know but you got mail, if you didn’t let me know i’ll resend.
got your mail and replied.
ha ha on mr cracker for dividing his house on the laurels he rested on the lean mr west 🙂
oh goodness i must have deleted your reply please resend,
lol lean mr west, good one. earlier i looked at west pics when he first began this and he has lost a lot of weight. much like omar this literally has taken all their physical substance, wasn’t much mental substance there to be lost watchin omara decision making.
Just more OM whistling to his wallets.
No depo with Crump decided yet, on when.
Looks like our man, Jerry C., PJ E7 got himself in some trouble coming back to the courthouse.
http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2013/6/14/george_zimmerman_tri.html
This is very reason a lot folks fear serving.
Why would he show back up? That’s a really strange thing to do. Also strange that the media is outing him, etc. But that’s the nature of this case.
I don’t think he was necessarily an intentional stealth juror. Of course OM is ranting about it now. I hope they catch a Fogen stealth juror.
He is an idiot, trying to sabbotage the system.
Problem is, knowing about it if it doesn’t happen in voir dire as the defense did. Defense could have brought this to the court outside and before he came in.
He was trying to be a stealth juror, especially given his actions today, he tried to return to the jury room.
I agree he’s an idiot–not good for either side. But, apparently he was upset that his name was leaked to the press. Gotta wonder about that.
All these people could have wasted their time had he got back to them.
O’Mara just called him a potential stealth juror.
He also tap-danced about how this all came to light. Didn’t want to admit that they’ve got their interns googling and checking the FB and twitter accounts of every pj. Feels just a bit too creepy.
OM is doing his usual song and dance, pointing fingers everywhere else to deflect attention from himself and West.
so now we have PJs and PSJs …. got it!
(agreed that dude is a bag of mixed nuts)
Here’s OM.
No guess its press waiting for a statement from someone
Press, yes.
Various court personnel talking. They don’t know the audio is on.
The dismissed juror story, with his photo. Guess why this guy wanted to be on the jury, more than just the case siding potential, personal publicity. He’s getting that now.
Gives artists a bad name, the idiot.
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/dismissed-juror-zimmerman-trial-returns-court-gets/nYLZ7/
This ex-pj, had he reached the group of juror potentials, he could have spoiled everyone he reached, or possibly contaminated, with whatever message he had.
Am I hearing West and Fogen talking? I am on welsh 2. Live feed
Big handshake between Fogen and the jury consultant. Was that a goodbye for the weekend or an adios for good.?
A photo-op to look like they’re hopeful and confident, whether they are or not.
Recess until Monday morning at 9 am.
O’Mara is holding a press conference in just a few minutes. Hold on to your hats.
Do you have a link?
@professor.
No — thought wftv would broadcast after the court recessed but they didn’t. I happen to have the TV on HLN and they did provide it. I’ll see if they have the vid on their website.
Courtesy of Trent Sawyer;
Network and/or stream?
http://www.mediaite.com/columnists/live-zimmerman-trial-jury-selection-day-5/
Just starting…
@standingwave. I watched it on HLN (don’t know if they have the vid on their website). Now watching MSNBC. Rev. Sharpton is recapping today’s juror interviews.
Profeesor and FauxMcCoy
Here are the PJ line up for next Monday and Tuesday.
Monday:
H7
H10
H13
H18
H27
H29
H31
Tuesday:
G29
G42
G63
G66
G61
H6
Did something happen somewhere else in the courthouse? Did that juror who got doxed or Junior or Taaffe or somebody get involved in something?
Missed mose of last hour or so, what was the MOM handshake with Ben Crump about?
For cameras?
Probably either arranged or waived his deposition.
Thanks Xena, makes sense
Fogen looks more alert than usual.
Was just going to say the opposite TSTAS. The look I saw was so bleary eyed I immediately thought, what a dozy, and, against my better judgement, how much his jowls and eyes looked like those of a b*g f*t p*g ready for slaughter !
For bacon of course !
Interesting. To me he looked far better than Mon-Thurs.
Perception is everything, enit?
Well I did say “bleary eyed”, so perhaps I was mistaken and he was thinking of something other than sleep to relax with over the weekend after a hard week and it wasn’t tiredness at all… if you know what I mean…
; – )
Omara is miffed. He lost. Let us rejoice!
Wow. Mom looks pissed!
Bitter… pursed lips, right ?
Would love them both for me but especially for OH (we are both artists but he never moved onto computers like I did so sticks with all the traditional tools), if I weren’t over here…
If no one bites try a youth project or poor school.
are the juror videos posted anywhere?
I would like to hear Juror G81
I missed the marvel too Tzar, so was going to look for the same after I have my dinner. Trent maybe ?
will check trent
starts around 56minutes and continues on the next sequel
Ta Tzar, (bit of a mouthful that one) I now have something to look forward to after dinner.
Trent talks over the whole thing though
it’s useless if you want to follow g81
Well that’s Trent I suppose, but of late he had calmed down a lot so he must have got his bravura up again. Dare I suggest possibly DMan ?
here is a good one
Ta again Tzar.
Trent at stateoftheinternet on YouTube. I think SouthernGirl 2 has some on her site http://3chicspolitico.com/2013/06/12/state-vs-george-zimmerman-in-the-murder-of-trayvon-martin-day-3/#comment-159452
And various FL media have bits and pieces on their site. Also, use the search function on YouTube. THere are several people who post these.
Omara is thr type of person who gave smallpox to the Native Americans. I don’t think they let him roll them though. I think he lost.
What is that all about… Why did Mom speak to Atty Crump?
I speculate he’s confirming Atty Crump’s deposition for this evening, or tomorrow morning.
Bet you’re right.
Wonder what that conference is about between O’Mara and Crump.
That’s what I want to know…
Pleeeez somebody…..what’s going on at Juge Peppermint Patty’s bench?
Oh no! Another typo. I meant to say “judge”
OT: Before I check with outside organizations, etc, is anyone here an artist or an art teacher: water color/acrylic/colored pencil/pads/ pastel, etc. New, sealed in packages, I am trying to keep these beautiful supplies from the landfill.Do you need to see a picture? Shipment only, I won’t accept money if they will go to good cause.
Local schools would love to have that stuff. I donated a bunch of stuff like that last time I moved.
If you have a local elementary or high school nearby, you can donate them to the art teacher/department.
Aren’t you still painting? You’ve posted some very beautiful work.
My real passion is folding origami cranes, hence the name Crane-Station. The mediums I used to create jail art were a combo of deodorant, magazine ink, ink and colored pencil!
When I was young, my original love was for chalk pastels, but they are very expensive, at least the good one are, like the Sennelier chalk pastels. I was never a painter, and I consider water color to be really hard, because you can’t make mistakes!
Would love them both for me but especially for OH (we are both artists but he never moved onto computers like I did so sticks with all the traditional tools), if I weren’t over here…
If no one bites try a youth project or poor school.
Crane~ I am school teacher. If you want to send art supplies for my classroom, i can ALWAYS use them! I teach at a Title 1 school; I buy many of our supplies out of [pocket. I’ll pay for shipping. Next year’s kids can use new supplies.
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I have, all unused/and or sealed: (and I don’t want money. This is my mission-type thing)
Grumbacher Academy Acrylique
-mars black hue 5.07 oz C13411
-titanium white C21211
Grumbacher Academy Acrylic 3 fl oz
-raw umber C172
cadmium red medium C029
-raw umber C172
-cobaltt blue hue C049
-grumbacher red C095
Hooker’s green C105
-cerulean blue hue C309
-cadmium yellow C034
-thalo green c205
ultramarine blue c219
thalo blue c203
payne’s grey c092
cadmuim orange
c025
yellow ochre light hue c244
burnt sienna
c023
thallo yello green c 210
raw sienna c 171
alizarin crimson c0001
burnt umber c024
dioxazine purple c094
OILS
unopened package of 10 van gough water colors in tubes
7.5 ml yellow tube grumbacher waer color
Winsor and Newton, tubes, 1.25 oz:(water mixable)
cerulean blue
-a sack of small unopened watercolor tubes
-Prismacolor watercolor pencils
-winsor and newton nice container of unused water color cubes
alizarin crimson
-at least 10 or so sealed and unopened colored pencils and a variety of ‘art sticks.’
From my many years of dumpster diving experience, these items look nearly new, unused, excellent to pristine. In fact, I even searched for the receipt.
People used to laugh and laugh at me for what I do, but not anymore. My goal is to get these things into hands that need them, and the collection looks like it was a move-away where the people could not afford to transport. This is a lot of stuff. Tell me what numbers on the tubes and boxes you need to know, and also, I will attempt a photo.
@crane — as a make up artist, i drool at that prospect, sadly, it is not suitable for my medium. i cannot believe what some folks throw away.
Would they be suitable for my granddaughter’s daycare or would these be more for older children?
Good point, about suitability. Professional grade or older color making materials, can have heavy metals as the color itself.
The labels should say as far as any paints go, but chalk pastels might also be a problem for kids unless they are specifically kid safe because they powder off and get on hands, in air etc.
To be honest, I (am not a teacher) but they seem to be for older students. To be honest, do they still use fingerpaints and paper mache these days?
Also children’s hospital; also senior center; also women’s prison.
Great suggestions, although women’s prison only accepts certain things from certain contracted vendors (which is called ripping people off, in some circles).
Our art teacher is brilliant and is in desperate need of supplies for her advanced class. Email me if they are still available, Crane.
crane station: WOW! You got a ton of options! You can’t go wrong with any of them!
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Scroll the thread, read the list and let me know. That’s not even the complete list!
Not sure, did you read the list in reply to cielo? tuff like Let me know if your teacher is able to use stuff like that!
Crane-Station~ I’d like the colored pencils, please. We don’t use oils or acrylics in 2nd grade. 🙂
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Hold on, I will try to post photos, just a sec…
Photos:
and same set different photo (I am a terrible photographer):
Is this sort of thing okay for 2nd grade? Or not? I don’t know. There are 7 or 8 sets, unused to pristine (where only a couple of pencils appear to have been sharpened). There is only a very slight crumple to one box, because of my clumsiness- I tripped and dropped it when I got it home.
You should have heard the likes of this woman the other day, bitching at me for dumpster diving, she’s like “And your husband knows you do this?!” I told her I had been doing this for 10 years, but didn’t say much more, b/c I don’t need the competition.
And BTW all of y’all trolls out there: the cops in the town know me, know I dive, and I have worked with them on helping to find a vehicle they were looking for; they all know the divers in this small town, and they know we are not ‘identity thieves’ or whatever other nonsense the MSM wants people to think we are.
In fact, I work, as you can see, to get things to people who can use them, and I don’t do it for the money, so there! (had to say it cielo, you know how it is with the trolls, LOL)
Crane~ Oh yes PLEASE! I’m serious about the postage. That looks like it could run over $10 to send. 😦
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Okay, here is what I will do. On Monday, I will get the rate estimate for the various ways to ship, and Fred will email these numbers to you.You can choose the method We will go from there. My guess-timate is 10 to 15 dollars to ship, which is a great deal for that many supplies IMO. Glad to save them from the landfill. They seem perfect for grade school teaching, not 10 dollars a stick but better than Crayola, maybe. (Higher end Michaels or Hobby Lobby!)
Crane~ Sounds awesome!
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Bernie is not happy. Omara is fighting like a gladiator to have him removed. Jesus be a fence….
It feels to me that the defense uses a lot of rather transparent psychological tools. Of course they jump on everything that hints at emotions, even when someone remembers Trayvon’s smile. But they also wants to know what type of images of both they keep in mind. This allows them to enter deeper layer of the psyche.
And then they ideally look for controllers, that was a challenged H6 just missed. Quite obviously he is not willing to work as a jury enforcer. He can ignore these things but he will not call the deputy, or whoever and inform on the respective jury member.
That’s how they will manage to filter out people who are closer to GZ’s mindset. His peers.
sorry, I am a bit distracted and did not pay attention on all the typos.
I shudder at the thought of 6 like Fogen.
Maybe, i should say. O’Mara, he is a lot better than West.
@smokeegyrl
Too funny! You picked a winner. Now you Junior & Company are going to be p’d off when they sees this.
Ooops! I meant to say, Now you know
It’s 4:42 pm. Will she recess for the weekend or bring on another PJ?
They’ve only questioned 7 today.
Hello, I’m new to the chat room but I’ve been reading your postings and the normal people here comments for months now, you guys are awesome, I had to jump in…
Welcome, enjoy. This is a great group of friends.
@trial-is-underwaybaby
welcome, thanks for joining us with such an awesome screen name, too!
Welcome aboard Trial-is-underwaiybaby!
Glad you joined us.
They are getting ready to wrap for the weekend. Omara is arguing to dismiss the Black teacher guy but is not winning.
Notice O’Mara’s body language at the bench. He’s turned his back in a way that blocks West out.
Are we seeing a little hostility?
i’missed that but i heard the hositility when west last up. while questioning the juror about the trayvon supporters parking at her jobs parking lot west stopped walked over to omara and jury consultant i heard omara snap at west ‘what are you doing?
just saw west try to approach omara he turned his back and walked toward bernie then bernie pointed omara towards the bench and judge nelson. while at the bench omara had his back to west.
discord in the fogen defense team was bound to happen. wonder how omara will handle further court appearances with west.
me thinks west will want out and will side with florida bar in hopes to save himself from suspension and disbarrment after this trial
ha ha ha ha ha
“west stopped walked over to omara and jury consultant i heard omara snap at west ‘what are you doing? ”
expect to hear a lot more of it!
alrighty i will be diligently listening and watching omar/west interactions.
omar best be careful fussin at west. ’cause west will flip a skeletor hissy fit on omar
that will be priceless
To be real, West is not in a lot of trouble, if people were to complain
The only thing I can say he did was he let slip a witness name when he was not supposed to
Omara on the other hand, we have a list
I think West will not be in as much trouble as Omara, if any
hi Jun! your on the right trak about west for sure. i may make light of him,during this proceedings, obviously west is past his time to be effective in court. i noticed judge debra has given him more room for error because of his weaked abilities.
i can see now how my position about fogens’ defense team being held responsibile for their illegal actions has gone too far including west.
i’ve will not look at them anymore thinking ‘your only as good as the company you keep’. in the beginning i knew west had known omara for a long time worked together but west might not believed omara would stoop this low in foregoing moral reasonable defense ethics handling fogen defense. taking down anyone and everyone whose involved in the case from Trayvon, State employees, fogens’ wife to his own offices/team including west himself.
i’ve experienced much in my years but this has given way to a whole new chapter of my learning experiences.
I observed the same. Something tense was happening @ the bench. He was trying to get his way & didn’t. They didn’t let him roll them. He was clearly angry. You can also tell that he doesn’t think West is all that helpful. Omara had an attitude crisis. He’ll have to shake it off this weekend. Omara is a devil.
Yeah, and I also noticed the consultant for the State crossing his arms and discreetly moving away from him like you do if the person you’re moving away from had serious body odor.
The word for the day ts G-81.
CTH must have fallen out the tree on that one.
He was a breath of fresh air. I loved him.
Long sidebar. One side wants the juror & the other side doesn’t. I hope the judge is laying down the law.
I cut my face yesterday bending a piece of metal, when it recoiled and hit me below the eye. Even after H2O2 cleanup it bled for many hours. My question is: Can I go kill somebody in the street and claim self-defense, especially if I put a great big butterfly bandaid on the cut? I also have a black eye. So does that add to the need for killing someone because maybe there is the possibility that the nose was broken, even though no x-ray proves anything?
sorry you’re injured crane 😦 heal well.
Oh, it’s fine, and really. the whole point is, it’s a minor injury!
Umm, is Professor in any danger? LOL
Hope it feels better soon. I’m sure that can’t feel good.
I do not think you should kill anyone, but that piece of metal needs it ass kicked! 🙂 I hope you are not in to much pain.
Well, you might end up in court. Just sayin’.
Glad you didn’t do more damage!
Oh, OUCH! Goodness C-S, that must have hurt like hell. Glad to see you’re feeling well enough to post.
PS. No killing. They’d never let us on the jury, being totally biased on behalf of the defendant. 😉
Don’t see why not… might use it myself for some of those on my ever lengthening hit list !
Sorry to hear that, Crane. Sounds like you have a free pass to killing someone, just think ahead, get your plan together, and make sure no one knows of or sees your injuries until the plan unfolds.
@Crane-Station. Sorry to hear about the accident and may you heal quickly.
I would ask Bernie to kiss your boo-boo and make it better, but Professor may not like that. 🙂
BE CAREFUL! We don’t want the justifiable homicide stats to rise.
Crane – only if god shares his plans with you,too.
oh crane noo, hope you heal quickly, please be take extra care.
Yikes, yes you might be under suspicion for assault on a piece of steel. Just because it wouldn’t bend to your authority is no right to try and make it bend to your will. Obviously it was Standing it’s Ground in fighting back.
Hopefully you had some safety glasses on. Hope you feel better soon.
towerflower~ you’re silly!
________________________________
I’m fine, but it really made me realize just how minor GZ’s so-called injuries were!
You did say metal right? Sure you weren’t fooling around with one of those cheaply made Kel-Tec’s?
Cut your face, sounds like kick back to me.
Were you by any chance stalking teenagers carrying Skittles and Arizona Ice Tea?
Now you know you can’t cry victimhood after that.
No really, I hope you’re feeling better real soon. 🙂
True story: I was bending a metal part that holds a lampshade onto a lamp, to hook something out of a dumpster. In case you didn’t know, I’m pretty much (approx 75 percent) freegan and have been, for several years. I am always inventing hooks, because I tend to lose quite a few. I rarely climb in anymore, unless it’s furniture, and one of my pet peeves is when people actually throw trash into a dumpster, LOL!
The only gun-related things I have found is occasional bullets; I cannot and do not own a gun, but have a good buddy who is licensed and does carry. (Which is not unusual in Kentucky)
While they are discussing in a sidebar… I just seen this post.
Mmmmkay – tell us how you REALLY feel LOL
Thanks for laugh… refreshing interlude for the long powwow !
You just made my day worthwhile!
One of my favorite shows. Kamau Bell never pulls his punches. Chris’ add on comment had me LOL and yelling, “YEAH!” at the same time.
smokeegyrl,
I don’t know how my post got down stream, guess I wasn’t paying attention.
Well, here it is again.
Sleuth says:
June 14, 2013 at 3:44 pm
@smokeegyrl
Too funny! You picked a winner. Now you Junior & Company are going to be p’d off when they sees this.
Reply
Sleuth says:
June 14, 2013 at 3:46 pm
Ooops! I meant to say, Now you know
lol… Chris Rock did a job didn’t he? hahahahahaha wait til he sees my next two videos on a serious side… the nail might be driven a little deeper in his soul. lol
The last pj up said Zimm sounded like a guy concerned for his neighborhood… lmao, please he sounded like he was being nosey and the one “up to no good, or on drugs or something”
Feed back up.
Wonder what’s going on at the judge’s bench. In addition to the attorney’s, consultants, I also see baliffs moving close in that direction?
Probably totting up how many more they are going to need to question to get to 50 (it is 50 now, not 40? I forget) before Tuesday when she told the others to come back.
They’re avoiding any sort of answer that might be cause for dismissal because thay want to get on the jury for one reason or other.
Yep, I’ve never seen so many PJs want to serve on the jury.
No offense taken, looolooo (If I was any whiter I’d be a ghost.)
It’s gotta be really tough. It’s been a pretty big event, and it’s gotta be all that much bigger in Seminole County. I don’t know that this particular screen is going to be terribly helpful. Better to assume that they have all heard plenty and focus on trying to probe their ability to compartmentalize what they heard before the trial from what is presented in the courtroom.
I don’t like this guy. Probably no basis for a cause challenge, so Bernie may have to use a peremptory.
If this one is hiding a lot, he’s pretty good at it.
Is BDLR asking the right questions? I’m not so sure.
i think sometimes he is a bit too quick to start his next question. keeping someone talking by providing a bit of awkward silence can accomplish a lot. i used this tactic often as a manager.
I think MOM is getting better/more info than Bdlr. Like you said, he needs to slow his roll.
The defense likes this guy.
Omara is taking a poll on how effective his pre-trial smear tactics were to see if its worth doing again.
I wonder why so many of the pjs claim to have so little information? Its hard to believe.
This gut is in like Flint.
Why are ALL of the white people (no offense) lying about what they’ve heard, remember, and think about this case?
Are these people typical white Floridians?
nah just typical liars.
Please don’t lump me into that group looolooo. The honest ones have already been eliminated in their questionnaires.
I get the feeling neither side knows what to think of this guy.
He said his father is Hispanic… lmao… I about fell out of my chair.
I think Fogen rolled his eyes.
Stay safe!
Yeah, I noticed that, too.
Is RZsr. fogen’s bio dad? Because he, joonyah nor Gracie don’t seem to have ANY caucasian features or appearance at all. That’s weird. They all look 100% hispanic/afro-peruvian.
Doesn’t mean he isn’t. It’s all in the genes. You never know what will take precedence for outward appearance and what will dominant the inside. You never know, maybe one of Z’s future kids that he talks about will look like the German side.
I wondered the same thing. I know how these things can go. Sometimes a multiraical child will take on the physical characteristics of one race. But with Fogen I suspect Sr. is not the bio dad. But he very well could be. Just notable to me that both brothers don’t APPEAR half white. When I saw Fogens mugshot he resembled many of the Mexican immigrants from CA that I knew.
The woman West got dinged would have been good for the State. Instead we get this guy, with his “media bias for Trayvon” act that has MOM drooling.
Mom’s concern is the word victim! His real concern should be lies and DNA!
Was Trayvon Martin the victim of a crime or just an event?
Puh-leeze!
IKR. No not a crime couldn’t have been an event. It was “THE GUN”!
“Event” irks me more than “incident,” which already pisses me of plenty.
West seems perpetually puzzled.
Not surprised, PJ just referred to GZ’s so called “life threatening”, “about to die” injuries as “some cuts on him” !
there were no bruises.
What’s going on? I hear these people arguing in the background. Anyone else hear it? Someone is asking “Are you alright? There’s laughter, people, American and Latinos.
Now discussion about the Heat. Some lady saying she was afraid she was going to die.
Does anybody hear it?
I do not hear it.
Okay. I know what it is now. I was only listening to the live broadcast of the pj selection on NBC. Apparently the stream was interrupted due to some awful accident.
BTW can everyone take a 2nd and say a prayer for my state of Colorado. The fire is only 5% contained and right now the wind is blowing like crazy. I live 20 minutes from Castle Rock and another 15 minutes from Black Forest.
Will do. Stay safe.
Prayers your way and stay safe!
I don’t pray but I will think of you, and put safety first at all costs.
@smokeegyrl. You have my prayers. I’ve been concerned about MMPat — haven’t heard from him in several days — knows he lives in CO but not sure if it is by or in the range of the fire.
didn’t know he lived out here… wow..
OMG! Yes, of course I’ll be praying for you smokeegyrl. And for my man mountainmanpat, who we haven’t heard from in a while.
Las week I worried about Xena, now you and mmp. Be safe and stay prepared to flee.
in my prayers too smokeygirl, thinkin about mmp hoping and praying hes’ safe. haven’t seen him today….
Wow, stay safe! Sending positive thoughts your way.
Absolutely!
Praying love!
Prayers for smokeegyrl and MMP, stay safe and don’t take any chances. Hope all stays good.
My prayers are most certainly with. Be safe. I wonder if that’s the story that broke into my live feed….just curious. No need to answer that.
QQn huh? lol okie dokie
somehow not liking this guy.
buzzword — sharpton!
me either… I don’t know what his deal is..
H6 seems relatively neutral. Hard to read. Intelligent.
Hi Prof & everyone,
Thread is over 800 comments & hard to load, can we have new thread?
<<<<<<<<back to lurking and reading 🙂
@hinkster4ever
Welcome aboard hinkster4ever! Hope you enjoy reading the many insightful posts.
ooh! ask me Bernie! i would tell my out of town visitors a sociopath/psychopath was wondering the neighborhood stalking young AA boys and murdered one.
Yeah, Junior has got them believing that mess about being attacked.
H6 is basically admitting he believed it. Busted up his head with a can of ice tea and skittles although there’s been no mention of the confessed murderer’s dna being found on those item, at least none that I know of.
Thinks most of the media was slanted toward Trayvon at the beginning and now it has gone the other way.
I’m dying to hear someone say “I’ve got a bad memory” lol.
I’d like to hear, “To be honest with you, I’ve got a bad memory.”
Oh in fact, here’s a question session I’d like to hear:
Q: Did you hear about this case in the news?
A: Yes, but it seemed real suspicious.
Q: How so?
A: They were just talking about the news, checking it out.
Q: Did you form an opinion?
A: Well I didn’t know what their thing was. Somepin’s wrong with them.
Q: Have you already decided on whether you think the defendant is guilty or not guilty?
A: He looks like he’s on drugs or somepin.
Q: Is he Black, white or Hispanic?
A: I heard he’s Afro-Peruvian on his mother’s side and American on his father’s side so I guess I won’t form an opinion until all the evidence comes out. Except he’s not Mexican.
Q: Did you hear that the defendant had a valid license to carry a weapon?
A: Homie, to be honest with you, I forgot the answer to that. But if you give me one phone call I’ll ask a friend — oh sh!t I forgot what pocket I put my cell phone in. Now I’ve got a problem!
A classic! *applause*
Ha!!! Fab.
LMBO
Has anyone admitted to seeing MOM on the news that they heard?
This guy is H6.
Excused because West extracted too much about her work location. Annonymity compromised.
OH! I’ll have to listen again. Was moving around.
Why am I not surprised.
When West does that, will JN do anything?
West is always messing up.
if he weren’t such a forgetful dolt, i’d think he might have done so on purpose. hell, maybe he did. seemed like a good potential witness.
“THEY had no business on the property”! Kindly escort her out. lol
I thought she said that was her boss’s view and why he made them leave.
Apparently, the woman was excused for cause.
Any idea what the cause was? Knowing someone who lived in the RTL?
Watches CNN. Hopeful.
What the heck just happened???? huh???
???
What happened?
Zimmerman takes a moment to glance at his book, The Cat in The Hat, which he has stashed in his spiral notebook.
What was that all about?
Excused for cause due to violation of anonymity?
She seemed sympathetic to the prosecution. I liked her.
She is a no.
lets see, what’l lwest next line of questions be?
photos in the media.
darn that pj was moved along quickly.
Who is that guy that helping the defense team?
defense hired him, he is their jury consultant don’t know his name
Not sure what’s happening with this sidebar.
My guess she worked right across street. She knows to much?
Yeah, a real Mrs. Kravitz.
skeletor sways over to omara and jury consultant, lost at sea without a compass
whoops i just heard omara say ‘what are you doing?’. thats’ not good..
west will be back moving his mouth like a guppie in a fish bowl. duh glub glub bubbles o duh
They had no “business” at her work location. Does she mean they are tresspassers on private property?
I think she said 2 tour buses pulled up at the property she worked at to go to Memorial. Her boss asked them to leave because they had no business on that property. I believe BDR referred to her as working at a school. Schools are all over stranger danger. jmo
IIRC, the Memorial was set up just outside on the grass outside the gated community on public property. Quite a few residents liked it but Old Taafee wanted it moved.
I think they eventually moved to some Historic Civic Archive building.
Maybe some people were parking on private property, if so, they were most definitely wrong.
He did ask her about what her boss said about the Memorial. He’s deliberately trying to confuse this lady.
Maaaan, if you’re in the witness box, wait until the question is fully asked, and then answer ONLY the question.
Is she an employee of the complex? Cuz it surely sounds like it.
Pipitone thinks she works at nearbyschool.
There is a Church across the street from the front gate.
I think she or a friend of hers lives there. She did say something to that affect.
here goes skeletor my head started throbbing
She works at the school near L@TT
She has two jobs, just wondering if the other job is on the complex itself because the memorial was right outside the front gate. There is a church across the street.
West talks to her like she was a child. She must love that.
This woman is G87?
Great! Another pj who got it right….A TEENAGE BOY! Bless her heart.
Out of town guest. What would you tell them happened? An incident between Mr Zimmerman and a teenage boy. Fogen swallowed hard.
I noticed that too. O’Dirty has tried hard to present this as an incident between 2 men.
Hey guys
A person claiming to be Juror E7 posted on 3ChicsPolitico to explain what happened in court.
Do you have link? I am clueless as to where to look.
Thank you!
Wow – fascinating. And proves how haywire information can go in a case like this. I believe what he’s saying is true.
What WHO’s saying is true?
What’s true?
(Forgive me, I’m having a Don West moment here.)
SG2, I don’t remember where but I saw a photo that was disturbing and makes me question his mental state. Did you see the photo of the gentleman?
What photo?
if it is true e7 is suing because his id known after his appearance, would and could any replies to any post by e7 be brought up at a later date in law suit?
it was written in a article that it pj e7 was questioned by JN about his posts on facebook. also the article states:
An ABC News search of the Facebook page revealed that a person resembling E7 wrote on March 21, 2012, the same date as on the court record, an inflammatory comment in response to a posting about the case touting the site http://www.justicefortrayvonmartin.com.
http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/did-potential-zimmerman-juror-lie-court-034710693.html
if anyone has not seen pj e7 here is his channel 9 interview:
Dismissed juror in Zimmerman trial returns to court, gets escorted out
e7 returned to court excerpt
The man, referred to only by his juror number, E7, was at the courthouse demanding to know how the defense learned of a website post that got him dismissed earlier this week.
Once inside the courthouse on Friday, the dismissed juror began to express several concerns about his privacy and his treatment by the court system, so an investigator referred him to the clerk of courts and advised him to seek legal counsel.
Authorities said that’s when the man walked away from the investigator and down to the jury assembly room. There, the officer told E7 he had been dismissed and was not allowed in the jury assembly area or have any contact with any potential jurors until after the trial has concluded.
The deputy clerk of court referred E7 to the clerk’s office, which is when he replied, “Do they know what they are in for?,” referring to other potential jurors.
The dismissed juror then went to the Clerk’s Office. When finished, E7 was advised that he was trespassed from the courthouse until the conclusion of the Zimmerman trial.
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/dismissed-juror-zimmerman-trial-returns-court-gets/nYLZ7/
Who is she? Wolf Blitzer’s sister? The Situation?
Maybe she is Fox Blitzer.
ROTFLOL! Oooops. I just spilled my coffee.
Blitzer’s show is The Situation Room. The Situation is a member of the cast of Jersey Shore. (Wonder if Snooki is following this case… probably not.)
very strange that so many people speak of the rallies and race yet don’t seem to know too much about the case.
seriously are there that many people with so little curiosity?
I bet this case is on TV and Radio almost every day down there.
The one guy earlier summed it up. Once you see it is black people, you know it’s nothing but trouble.
Thinks rallies were about people wanting justice..
That guy from Sanford via Miami gave O’Dirty a run for his money. He was too awesome!
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. – I Corinthians 1:27-29
So does BDLR know G-87 in a work-related area?
Bernie’s getting into a groove !
From now on when I listen to the song “Don’t disturb this goove” by The System on my iphone,…… I’ll think of Bernie. And 🙂
(contrast the history educator, compared to the woman admin/school discipline person, who assumed Trayvon was bad character who came to Sanford, based on her preconeptions of youth)
Yes. And I want my public school teachers to be unbiased – that’s SO important in that position.
That woman was not a teacher.
Oh, I’m mixed up then. I’m thinking of one a couple of days before then – not a teacher but works in the schools.
Big difference between classroom teachers and disciplinary administrators.
This pj if he becomes a juror, will be a positive influence on anyone with problems of precoceptions of any black males. Gone, poof!
(re: last pj, black historian educator, male)
Unfortunately my experience tells me they’ll just label him as one of the “good ones” and then dismiss him from their minds as an anomaly.
If not that, they will ignore or otherwise dismiss his input. Hes unlikely to let it slide w/out a challenge, but it could get ugly depending on the ego of the opposition.
Black lady?
I lean more towards Caucasian. She sounds nervous, as well.
Yes, now that she’s said more. Hard to read her. Careful answers.
Judge Nelson sure is smiling big time right about now.
So glad I stopped my floor scrubbing to watch that one live. Hope we get more like him.
Rats! Thanks for making me feel bad TSTAS! My floors are a mess.
G87 is next up in the box.
Under the G– 87 (next PJ)
The judge likes this pj. Omara is still trying to find a reason to exclude him. Omara: Are you a member of National Action Network? Are you a Black Panther? Are you a member of the NAACP? Did you vote for Obama? Why do you consider death a tragedy? If someone kills another person, does the killer suffer a tragedy as well? I hope bernie fights 2 keep him
I think she likes him too, and appreciated those reflections on AA history. Oh, you can bet O’Dirty wants him out.
Professor,
Can you think of any reason this guy won’t be chosen?
The defense will try to use a peremptory challenge that I believe would violate the Batson rule.
Judge Nelson will be on the spot and I could tell by the little smile at the corner of her mouth that she knows exactly how historically significant those questions and answers were.
We watched an historic event and it was sublime.
Very good!
Yes, we just saw a, “This Month In Black History” moment. I was waiting for him to mention Emmit Till, Rosewood, Florida, Pitts and Lee, etc.
I think jury consultant knows they are stuck with this guy.
Body language at the bench looks like “no cause” to me, but I haven’t seen many of the last couple of days.
That was a very quick trip to the bench.
The arc of history bends slowly, Dr. King, and it has entered this courtroom.
Yes, sir!
beaufiful and so refreshing
Whoa! 🙂 🙂 🙂
@Professor.
Yes!
“A dream conceived in truth never dies.” Lyric in “Black Butterfly” by Deniece Williams.
Love that song. If you want a laugh imagine my non singing behind trying to hit those notes! SMH
@Shari. I love that song too. It’s been my inspiration for many years. The birth of a butterfly is something we humans should remember when we go through lonely and/or dark times. It’s because we are changing to come forth stronger, reach higher, and go further.
It was the inspiration for the Yahoo Group and then extended to my blog, Blackbutterfly7.
Singing? Let’s not talk about hitting those notes. 🙂
WoW, I’m impressed!
Defense team probably needs some hard liquor about now.
MOM, Q about perspectives.
“People see things as of their perspective, and people bring those, and time to time they colour current situation with those perspectives.
Tragic– “I’ve lived enogh to know, when someone passes away, no matter what circ’stances…. tragic.” Both sides, victim and family and for going through court system on other side.
PJ says in history, violence rate for AA to lose life is high. Typical to lose life if you are AA male.
OMOM says he thinks PJ is giving personal view, but wants to know if from this case.
I don’t tweet. FB? Yeah– only fB he has is with bros and sisters, keep in touch.
MOM Not default for news? No.
Social clubs, civic organizations that you belong to that have talked about this event at all?
Why tragic in relation to how media presented it? “I would say during that time, in city of Chicago there were number of murders that happened that didn’t receive this amount of media, that’s what makes this case different”.
Conflict with prev positions or fall in line with it?
first time I had … heard of situation about how Sanford handled it…. as far as local media follwoing up or gett’g in volved… hadn’t heartd that before.”
What he knew of GZ background.
“NW… in that complex onlly thing I can recall”
Cause you any concerns? “no”
Trayvon background you heard? “Up visiting his dad during all-star weekend”
Generally keeping up with this case? “hearing in passing…. local news.”
Anything I’ve said or dlr said, brought up memories of media effect on you? “No.”
Anything else? “Mp”
(hope my typing survived that in readable form)
I just listened to the recording of this witness as I missed it and I was very impressed, full of reflective wisdom, like when he said:
That immediately reminded me of the case in March 2012, (just weeks after the death of Trayvon), of Daniel Adkins, a learning impaired adult with the mentality of a thirteen year old, shot dead in broad daylight while walking his dog “Lady”, by a Cornell Jude, a black 22 year old, stopped in his car in a supermarket parking somewhere in Arizona. I have bought it up a couple of times here, as it doesn’t seem to have caught on as a cause anywhere, as I can’t find any blogs dedicated to it either. The shooter claimed SYG and/or Self defence alleging that Daniel had tried to smash his car window with a metal pipe, angry that the shooter had only just missed running him, (or his dog), over, and that to protect himself and his pregnant girlfriend he “was forced to shoot”… sound familiar? All the police found at the scene was Lady still with her leash clutched in Daniel’s hand where he lay dead. Many months later, after a lengthy investigation, the shooter was finally arrested and charged (I am not sure but I believe it was manslaughter) but as much as I Google it every so often to see how the case is progressing, there is zilch about it anywhere. Sadly the media appears to have no interest in the case, showing that, justice is also not freely available to those in the US not blessed with money, power, or intelligence !
I hope that this PJ’s words are some how soothing to Sybrina and Tracy. After the beating they took yesterday, they need and deserve it. Oh and Crump too. He looked genuinley heart-sick when that one particular cold-hearted older white PJ took jab after jab at Sybrina especially.
Yes!
I also thought about now wonder a presentation and representation this young man had to have been for Trayvon’s family to watch… He represented for Trayvon, Himself and Blackmen in general very well… I hope Sybrina found confort in know this man may be on the jury… I pray.
I also thought about how wonderful a presentation and representative this young man had to have been for Trayvon’s family to watch… He represented for Trayvon, hisself and blackmen in general very well… I hope Sybrina found comfort in knowing this man may be on the jury… I pray.
Professor please delete the post above ^^^^ Thanks.
I think Fogen is soiling his diaper. He knows this guy is to smart to buy his bull shite.
Hopefully he and ShelLIE are on good terms, cause there’s no way he can reach into the vast cravases of his azz to properly clean and sanitize.
She’d better at least get a Louie Vuitton out of it.
Why do you call Zimerman “Fogen?” What does it mean?
Short for forgotten. We don’t say his name here and out of respect we try not to call names so we use Fogen.
Tee~ in Ancient Egypt (and in many Middle Eastern cultures), names have power. Someone noticed that this case had been called the Zimmerman case, giving him the power of name recognition. SOOOO… inventively, it was decided to FORGET his name, remove power from him. FOrGottEN was shortened to FOGEN. Symbolicaaly, I feel that has empowered those seeking justice for Trayvon. Fogen’s power to control this case is gone.
________________________________
We need him on this jury. He’s thoughtful, articulate and well informed.
This man is the defense nightmare.
PLEASE DEAR GOD that he hasn’t been on social media or commenting!! That would be the ONLY thing they could get him on for a cause!
________________________________
He gave some very powerful insight. The desperately want him out.
I feel like I am watching an historical moment right now!
It is, it really is.
Another Real Hero, this young man.
Bringing up so many issues that others are afraid to address in public.
Wow, yeah. This guy is like an historian – has a big picture viewpoint, intelligent and articulate.
Noticed the switch to soft kidd gloves by the end of that, by MOM
Very powerful moment…
I want this guy on the jury so bad I can taste it!
Me too!
X2
Dang! How many notes did O’Dirty just collect from the consultant? Yup, just like we thought, they want him out.
They are absolutely desperate to get rid of this man!
and that should be difficult, due to minority status. yeeehaw!
West rubs his face a lot. Am I strange because I like yellow ties? I just don’t like them on West!
@Two sides. West’s tie isn’t yellow. It’s gold — bright, holiday gold. He’s probably wearing matching socks. 🙂
Perhaps you are not strange “because” you like yellow ties.
Perhaps you are strange “AND” you like yellow ties, or
perhaps you are strange “BUT” you like yellow ties.
Or not. 😀
Bring it brother! Bring it about the death of AA males losing their lives through violence since slavery. Yeah…he went there!
Yes, SG2! I posted that I knew that he was going to go there as soon as O’mara started questioning him. This boy is not going to slip up. Just saying.
WERK!
***hollering***
I love him, don’t tell my husband though, he will be jealous. 🙂
Oh, I done fell in love with this man!
“I don’t tweet.”
This man is a walking history book.
Totally agree. Mark does not like him because he is a smart AA.
Is O’Dirty referring to that noticeable scar on the confessed murderer’s left cheek, caused by the ex-girlfriend’s dog? If so, heck, it’s on all his pics.
BAM!
I am in love!
I am right there with you…
me too…
ZCBest, I was just about to confess my love for this PJ as well… very well spoken… even tone excellent.
Fagan looks worried or puzzled to me. Looks like Mom is trying really hard to discredit this PJ. wow 1/2 mile from the scene… This PJ sounds nice.
Age of Trayvon in photo. Other photos of Trayvon that you remember? Did you see the photo of Fogen with his knuckle bandages on his head and nose?
Wish he would have said he saw them and they were ridiculous! Lol
I think he may be a teacher.
He perfectly described the photograph of TM with TM wearing the Hollister T-shirt.
He’s involved in education. Has the media had carryover effect to admin and students question he says no not at all, where he works.
Gernally, he also says no, doesn’t generally affect youth in Sanf area.
He was pictures, saw few. MOM brings up ‘orange jumper’
Hollister photo, says it was burgundy, it was red. How old would you guess? 14-15 he says his estimate of age.
(he does look young, had a growth spurt recently according to Sybrina)
More current photos? MOM going after the recent cell phone videos and photo images of Trayvon.
PJ says re-enactment vid early on, only one he remembers? He doesnt’ remember if GZ was in that video.
Best pj so far, him and the recent high school graduate, and one other young guy. I also the lady from the 1st day, I think should could be from the caribbean.
Juror G81- My family is sad b/c a young teenager lost life. Took family to the park right across the street from where the shooting took place.
The defense won’t let this guy on the jury, but he would be great. He is smart & articulate.
This is amazingly honest and mind bending.
Anyone want a pulitzer prize? Write this story.
A town that has something poisonous living under the city, brought out by a murder and trial.
Oh man, this guy is smart, deep and well spoken.
what was the juror number?
Good grief dismissed pj Jerry Counelis (unemplyed painter/guitar player/Coffee Party Progressive) has just been escorted by deputies from the Court House. He’s hiring an attorney because his name has been leaked to the media. And now his face is out there as well. Mission accopmplished.
Justice for Trayvon……. ONLY.
“underemployed”
He lives in Sanford, he and his family from MIami. He was close to the complex where it happened, and was there at his home, that night.
Intelligent pj. He’s handling this well.
I like him, I think he will make a good juror.
Finally, a pj who realize Trayvon was a minor!
O’Dirty is trying to get this guy out!
It’s because the PJ is a suspicious looking guy.
He lives within a half mile of the location where Trayvon was shot to death.
Prof – could his living in close proximity to the crime scene be considered “cause”?
No.
Thank you.
Bless his heart. How honest and bright and responsible.
Is that bald guy in the gallery Osterman? The ladies seated by him look very familiar.
P. S. I see the confessed murderer is paying attention now.
This man and his family are from Miami.
Yes my brother! Articulate and communicate!
I just fell in love with this pj…
is it just me, is only omara questioning aa pjs’ and not west?
i notice omara body/facial language not as relaxed questioning this pj.
No smiles for this one either.
only fake and forced weak smiles at that.
It’s because the PJ is a suspicious looking guy
hi Dave. yes he is is a suspicious looking guy, just looking at omara directly without biased response.
omara reaction is not of a happy camper, his words are accompanied with forced faked weakened smiles…..
Naw, it ain’t you. You’re spot on with that observation. I guess he thinks he can intimidate AA’s, with his no so beautiful looks.
Today did not look good for omar, upcoming jury selections aren’t looking to good for fogen defense.either.
if sleepy hollows icabod had any desendents, he would look like omar
Is the confessed murderer falling asleep?
This young man sounds so informed and intelligent. I like his southern drawl. He’s a keeper. 🙂
@Sleuth, and here i thought my computer had froze on fogens’ face.
yep this pj is a keeper, omara fishing to get rid him.
Sometimes I think it’s my computer or the live stream freezing up, but there are times the live stream is flowing just smoothing. He is just an arrogant son of…….his daddy! 🙂
ain’t that the truth!
He’s also more forthcoming with what he’s heard about this case. They others IMO are lying.
Yes, he is a keeper. I only hope that he has NO internet comments that they can uncover. (fingers crossed)
I think we have witnessed several brave young voices speaking up and out today.
Just scrolled through the entire thread to catch up – you guys are awesome and I miss y’all when I’m away!
miss you too TSTAS, i feel the same way bout everyone when i’m away too.
PJ mentioned SYG law and rallies going on, as what he remembered early on.
At first, there was media stories of shock that this young person shooting was allowable under the laws.
“Seemed to me, lot of q’s about that particular law, didn’t know if something what went on that would have to come out in trial?”
Gut reaction, a tragedy, both sides, one lost his life, the other has to go through this trial/
GOD WHO IS THAT women by the bald head dude. Her face is obviously the result of bad cosmetic surgery her lips are distracting me. I just can never under stand at all.
Have to agree there. They are huge!
He is going to say what I think he is going to say. School him young man. Please say it eloquently!
I notice the consultant is also a lefty. How weird is that?
@Sleuth. ShelLIE’s a lefty too — hair is parted on the right.
West is wearing his holiday tie today.
couldn’t be more shiny if it were gold mylar.
ay2z~ Which holiday? Halloween?
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Whadda ya think, Xena. Boxers or briefs?
Hahahaha! Sorry, Faux, my eyes! My eyes!
@Parrot. For West? Probably briefs. He doesn’t give me the impression of liking freedom. 🙂
Good one. Too up tight.
😉
West looks good in ties that can be tightened into nooses, regardless of the color.
LOL@Malisha. Naw. Don’t choke him. Just take the ties and make jockey straps. He’s going to need them in a few weeks.
Now why is O’Mara coming at him like that? That shit just pissed me off..
You mean Bernie? That was to get the point on record emphatically to support this PJ)
It just seems like the O’Mara has nicer approach for some of the other pj’s… O’Mara, in my opinion, approach the AA pj’s like they’re on trial.. Bernie something else too now… But he don’t discriminate… It is what it is with Bernie…
G81 doesn’t comment on the story b/c people are MEAN SPIRITED and has NOTHING to do with the story.
****************************
Translation: I don’t comment b/c too many mean ass racists talking ish about things that has nothing to do with what’s going on.
@SG2. BINGO! No matter the subject of the article on Yahoo, Zidiots turn it to race and use creative means to post racial slurs.
Hey E7. Get a lawyer and start suing doxers.
Wow, will his face be on media tonight?
@ay2z. That might have been the event that convinced Judge Nelson to sequester the jury. It’s one thing to research (out of curiosity) the info that the judge stated, but something else to go so far as to post the personal information to be read by the public.
jury consultant is paying attention to him, looking something up with glasses on, now listens again looking at him.
Bernie gets in Q about ‘book writing etc’ motive, “No Sir”
Yes, he’s a black guy and he’s saying all the right things.
O’Mara is going to want to get rid of this man for cause, but I doubt he will succeed.
If the defense uses a peremptory later on, expect Bernie to object based Batson v. Kentucky.
Make a note of this for future reference.
It’s likely to be a battle.
Should be interesting, and defense will dig hard into social media including comments on stories sections.
If I was a betting gal I would put it all on the line that you are absolutely correct. I just want a ringside seat to the show.
This could be one of those outcome-determinative moments that ultimately decides this case.
We all have a ringside seat.
This guy is so well spoken that he could be the foreman. He’s smart and a leader.
Again. My money is on you being correct. I am extremely impressed with his presentation. I am not old enough to be his mother but this is a proud mama moment.
He sounds intelligent and sensible. Keep going buddy…..
I just saw this and i got the distinct impression he does not like Fogen.
“W. KAMAU BELL: George Zimmerman, you are a profiling, vigilante, racist, right-wing, trigger-happy, child-killing coward. I want to rip off your nuts, shove them down your throat, pull them back out your ass, toss them like dice, roll a hard six, pick them back up, put them in a blender, make a nut smoothie, drink it all down, feel refreshed, piss it back out, take off your shirt, wipe it up, wash your shirt on high –oh, it’s gonna shrink – put the shirt on a dog, call that dog a cat, laugh at your cat-dog, drop you both off at a Crip cook-out in Compton!
LOL
Leisa~ ROTFLMFAO!!! He might dislike gz a bit. 🙂
________________________________
But he will like him better without those alleged (I’m not too sure at this point) balls.
sounds like how the treehouse has been characterized.
“mean spirited.” You got it!!! Especially on Yahoo.
Zidiots, see what people think about your comments.
Did you sometimes look at those comments (yahoo news story on the case)
Feed went off for me.
fogen does not want him, he’s writing notes again)
GZ has physical reactions when he hears anything that is not in agreement with him. He pursed his mouth when hearing the word “typical.”
Photograph, mugshot, the orange ‘jump suit’ Ioops)
Burgundy type shirt on Trayvon, him smiliing.
(defense might not like this contrast in impression of the two)
Good answer on arrest delay.
Govenor stepped in question– may have felt DA in Sem county dropped ball.
HOle that against us or Mr. Z? No. FActor in anyway guilt or innocence? No dispute he can be fair.
Not formed an opinon as to G’s g or i.
Mews def’ly not get it right all the time. Biased? To me it seeems pendulum changes with newes media, maybe first biased against defendant, then later against deceased.
Early formed opinioin? No, waiting til come out in court.
Friends and family talked to him about it, their opinions. Combination, some felt Trayvon situation was tragic or typical in their minds.
(fogen making notes about free speech comment)
No opinion on the rally. “We have had thorughout our ihistory, people [expressing themselves] when they felt injustice.”
He told poeple at the time, that he can’t judge anything until all comes out at trial.
ay2z~ the orange shirt that LOOKS like a jumpsuit (ie jail issued jumpsuit). IIRC, that picture was NOT a mug shot.
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Shore him up, BDLR. You know O’Mara is going to try to pull “cause” out of this guy. He knows he’ll get an objection to a peremptory challenge.
He’s seen one photograph each of the defendant in a jump suit and TM is a purple shirt.
Has not formed an opinion about the defendant’s guilt.
Believes he needs to see all the evidence before he makes up his mind.
This juror sounds AA, effeminate or possibly gay, accent southern?
Yes chile!
lmao, im trying not to laugh, i get the feeling diane is AA, and i know a female’s reaction. lol lol lol lol
evokid7, “Whachu talkin ‘bou willis?”
dianetrooter~ believe me, being gay does NOT mean he’s pro- ZimJr.
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Heck yea young black guy…I am liking you so far. Be good now and don’t give them any reason to get rid of you!
Defense is not going to like the Wolfinger “dropped the ball” comment.
Ya think? Admitting to knowing about Wolfie could get him scrubbed.
Like this guy.
This is the 1st time I have seen the killer pass a note/question and it happens to be when an AA is being questioned.
Has there been even ONE pj that is an obvious Trayvon supporter?
I can not accept that NO ONE has ever heard ANYTHING about fogen’s life of crime, deception, lies, drugs, mental instabililty, and general all around fuckupism!
No one has seen his Mug Shots, and heard of his crimial history? No one has heard that Trayvon had NONE of fogen’s DNA on or around his hands?! Everyone missed that?!
I said it once and I’ll say it again. Crump, Jackson, and Parks have NOT been effective in regards to getting out the TRUE facts of this case.
They need to put aside their individual ego’s and hire a more experienced, connected, eloquent, ruthless attorney/spokesperson (who is NOT AA) to take over their talking points/interviews and someone who will SATURATE the airwaves with the EVIDENCE that SHOULD proove that fogen is GUILTY as charged.
BdlR means well, but IF he has asked the Martin/Fulton’s to have Crump & Co. to stand down, he may be making a disasterous mistake for Trayvon and his family. Look how things are going so far. I NEVER expected such obvious anti-Trayvonism.
Though it is not impossible for a Sanford jury to render a guilty verdict, it’s seeming more and more probable that it’s not likely.
I’m really, really worried.
Remember, all you’re hearing now is the results of the media campaign; BDLR was not allowed to engage in that.
What comes up next is the battle; BDLR will be fully engaged and the defense can’t risk putting THEIR GUY on the stand!
@looolooo: Fogen’s “all around fuckupism”….that fits to a T.
loooolooo~ there was ONE trayvon supporter but he lied that he had never mentioned this case. Shee-it, they found his FB responses on a liberal site!
________________________________
Look at it this way
The Fogen gang are psychos
They all make like 3000 profiles each and spam crap about the Fogen case all day everyday
At this point, Fogen or Omara can not claim the media was unfair to them, since they used it as a vehicle to smear a victim and be unfair to a victim
Basically Fogen can’t appeal anything
Fogen and Omara have motive to lie and have been proven to have been lying quite a few times and I have seen jurors figure that out about the defense and the defendants
MSNBC,
Bomb, bomb, bomb…
(Al Sharpton)
Young black guy?
My guess too.
Now, how is it that every once in a while we hear an age and race? Who has access to this knowledge? Thanks.
Media in courtroom are tweeting that info
Ah, thank you.
Black lady… me thinks
or a good Judy (gay guy)… I’m stuck now…
Next in the box is G81.
She does not characterize the scream as by someone knowing they about to be slaughtered in cold blood.
Nor does she characterize this as a younger person with a breaking high pitch in the screams, nor compare it to fogen’s exemplar ‘hep me rhonda’ (so to speak)
(not that she was asked pointedly about this, but she didn’t say this was an impression she had)
That’s why I do not trust her.
She surely knows a lot. Sometimes it boggles my mind when people know all then says they didn’t form an opinion. mmmm
She’s heard the 911 shriek call. Denies forming an opinion regarding who was screaming for help.
Defense wants her.
I don’t trust her.
that’s my impression too, based on only gut feeling, she’s wanting to do everything right and be food for all, including defense lawyers.
I think that’s a good call. I don’t trust her either. I didn’t hear anything overt, but my gut … (call me “Gibbs”).
Is she for real? I assumed it was GZ or TM! No shit Sherlock. God help us all.
fogen is constantly looking at the PJ.
She may be a nice lady influenced by images of pot plants, gun in a black hand, cell phone images, that will sway her image in subconscious that will come into play.
“The shot’ is the main thing she remembers from 911 call, the franticness of caller’s voice and yelling in background.
Characterizes it as someone in need of help (was that right she says in low voice after that, as if asking West if she’s giving right answer?)
which one, opinion? “No sir, not at all”
Who, as seen or heard on channel 13? No.
“Would you care for any [water]? No thank you”
What’s this water thing about, they always take water, bot MOM and West, to make a point of ‘we are real nice considerate guys’?
if the State offered water Z supporters would scream bribery.
only if it’s a woman and he’s interested in her as a potential juror. seriously, watch and keep notes.
Of course everyone’s perception is different, but I never perceived any franticness from the caller (W13?). In fact, I thought she sounded remarkably composed, under the circumstances.
She remembers black people protesting because GZ was not arrested.
She knows he’s claiming self-defense.
She says she hasn’t formed an opinion about whether he acted in self-defense.
That was not the answer he was looking for in reference to self defense, was it?
She subscribed to the OS two weeks ago, well after she received the summons and in time for the defense’s flurry of motions containing inadmissible evidence.
she just referred to ‘nationalies of the parties’ involved, Trayvon and GZ were BOTH US citizens, both born in USA but only GZ has a second possible ‘nationality’ if he has a Peruvian passport/citizenship..
Doesn’t want to mention race.
Nationalities? Easy. Fogen’s nationality is right. Trayvon Martin’s nationality was wrong.
Saw picture blood on back of his head.
Have you heard anything on news about Trayvon Martin’s background.
– 17 yres old, came and lived with his father, that his mother was having some trouble, also that pictures on his phone. From news source bs conversatn/.
Visiting rather than living here? I didn’t know either permanently or not.
She knows the charater assasination.
She says she can disregard evidence not in case. Even if you remember, can set it aside so as not to bring it into trial with you?
Some of hings may be tru and may not be true, sort only courtroom in your decision?
She says yes.
(BUT, the defense knows people with best intentions, may not separate those character ideas– the defense wants to know what might key into her memory for character of Trayvon that they can bring out to influence her decision making).
Impression of demos, reason for them. Protesting because not arrested for “the shooting”. (she does not say killing)
How did tha tmake her feel? She says ‘no opinion’.
“let the law take care of it”– she says “she doesnt’ know the details” so doesn’t want to weigh in on anything.
dump her. lying to say she doesn’t have an opinion after so many news shows.
________________________________
Her troubles in using Trayvon’s character issues would come during deliberations, if she insisted on using facts that haven’t been put in evidence. Other jurors would remind her that there’s no evidence that Trayvon was being put out, because his mother was having trouble with him. If she tried to use that in making her case with the other jurors, she’d be declawed on that issue. If she kept insisting on using it, my guess is the foreman would have to ask the judge for further instructions.
This is one reason why there will be 4 alternates. She can be replaced with an alternate.
Thanks Professor, so even the jurors can’t insist on using facts not in evidence, because that would be cause for replacement.
Yep.
West is an ass.
No specific reason but she makes me uneasy…..
Wait, I do have a reason. How can anyone know all about this case and have absolutely no opinion?
Exactly! They only seem to have opinions about things outside their city, i.e Tsusami, Boston, Connecticut, but then again most of these events affected more whites, than AA’s.
Oh, but we know all too well they have opinions.
Exactly! They want us to believe they only have opinions about Connecticut murders, Boston Marathon murders, Tsuami(?), events that affected primarily white people.
She thinks she’s seen 12 news reports about the case.
Saw a bloody photograph of the back of the defendant’s head. Recalls TM was from Miami, mother was having trouble with him and also remembers the photographs on TM’s phone.
She apparently believes TM was a thug.
I think I just heard Bernie say the trial will be 2-4 weeks instead of 4-6 weeks. No Zimmerman on the stand?
Both sides got together and trimmed witness lists so they have a better idea of how long it will take.
Plain and simple, Professor can correct me if I’m wrong but, if gz does not take the stand there is no self defense claim. That means that Omar can’t make any such claim in his closing statements.
In closing statements the attorney’s cannot ask the jurors to assume facts not in evidence. So in closing, if gz doesn’t take the stand, all Omar can do is ask the jury to find his client not guilty, but he won’t be able to give them a reason why they should do so.
Lonnie~ That’s how I understand it, too. If he DOESN’T take the stand, there’s no way to claim self defense. If he DOES take the stand, he’ll be grilled over the coals (with many seasonings and a basting sauce) by Bernie.
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Good metaphor… Right now he’s marinating! 😆
Heard about stuff on Trayvon’s phone. She knows alllll about this case.
What? Trayvon’s background. Oh my Lord. Mom was having trouble. Way to go Mark.
Back just in time for West (pours lemonade for everyone; here’s your slice, TO). Reading prior comments I see West is still flipping back and forth into meltdown mode? (sheesh) Sounds like he needs a neuro-psych assessment.
he can always borrow Fagan’s drugs.
Channel 13, is her default. fogen nodes repeatedly and smiles.
I had to run an errand and just got back in time to watch West make a fool out of himself.
This woman is G66?
ThasssRight!
Thanks, I now feel oriented as to time and place.
Professor: If you’re looking for West to make a fool of himself, there’s no need to rush! Opportunities abound! 😆
PJ to west ‘take a deep breath’
hahahahahahahahha
LOL!! PJ tells Donnie “Take a deep breath!”
He’s so condescending.
These people complain as if the rally shut the whole damn town down for a month.
and the victim is causing all this problem now that would never have happened had he not come to town.
Wonder if Sanford figures out what this says to visitors to their community, tourists who spend a day or a whole season.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@ —————————————————–@
@…..WELCOME TO SANFORD……………@
@……VISITORS KEEP OUT…………………@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
😆 😀 :-O
Donnie el Doro
intersting questions about shellies’ credibility to this pj. hmmm, she just may have become states’ witness with the State after all.
I wonder if BDLR is asking about Shellie’s credibility because she is going to flip on gz.
@dianetrotter just posted same and thinking exactly that.
I don’t think she is going to flip, if she was she, I don’t think she would have been pleading the 5th during her depo, even when the state said they wouldn’t ask her about her case. I think she is standing behind him, for the time being, because she likes the good life that they have achieved through the donations of others.
Once a liar always a liar. See I could never be juror. Way to judgmental.
It should be illegal for BDLR to be that sexy…. just my thoughts…
@FactsFirst.
His suits fit him like a Marine’s dress uniform.
Bernie, Bernie, Bernie. Take me in your arms and rock me baby. 🙂
@FactsFirst & Xena
It should be illegal for BDLR to be that sexy…. just my thoughts…
His suits fit him like a Marine’s dress uniform.
Bernie, Bernie, Bernie. Take me in your arms and rock me baby.
well your comments sure put a big smile on my face, whoowhee Bernie so nice i’ll say it twice Bernie!
@ic2fools. Did you suggest Bernie’s Angels?
yes i did Xena, :-):
Interesting that a woman would feel sorry for the grown man that killed a kid!
She’s trippin without luggage and a destination… SMDH… These people are something else…
Ask her how she feels about Manson
Yeah, it even caught my attention. It’s amazing, that inspite of the evidence from the ME’s office, which indicate none of the confessed murderer’s dna was found on Trayvon’s hands, that really believe this child brutally attacked him.
Just amazing.
Oooops! The word “that” should be “they”.
Very true. On HLN last night they were talking about fogen’s “broken nose” as if it is a fact. Even a black male on their fake jury believed Trayvon attacked fogen, though he believed Trayvon did it in self defense, from the guy following him.
I sent a couple of emails to HLN after dark about the “broken nose” issue. I asked them to actually read his medical report and he did not have deep lacerations nor is there proof of a broken nose and they needed to stick to the facts.
LOL liar liar ShelLie!
Has anyone seen Junior in court since Monday?
Haven’t seen him.
Nope, I asked earlier too. Maybe JN had guard stick boot up his butt and banned him. Wishful thinking on my part.
@disappointed. I think the seating behind the defense’s table is reserved. Maybe the spirit of love, truth and justice on the prosecution’s side of the room is too much for Junior to bear.
I think he was there with Rene’ Stutzman since that is his bff.
He is trying to fix Shellie’s curling iron… Lol
Haha Leisa. Jr could only wish for that kind of love.
LOL@Leisa.
Took my son in for a MRI on his shoulder yesterday, on the history form they wanted to know what his race was and his ethnicity was. I asked them why they needed to know that for a MRI. It made no sense to me and I refused to answer them. It wasn’t even for past medical history just past X-ray, MRI, and other scans.
But missed all of yesterday and this morning….lots to catch up on.
@towerflower. WELCOME BACK!!! Here’s hoping the best for your son.
He was hit by a wild pitch a couple of years ago during a baseball game in his left shoulder and lately he has been complaining about his shoulder giving out. He has a definite loss of strength compared to his right arm and they are trying to figure out why. Physical Therapy has helped some by making it stronger but it won’t last and still will “give out”. Doctor doesn’t think it is anything real serious but he wants to go into the service and he can’t do more than 40 push ups.
@Towerflower. You son is a brave person to go through an MRI. Even the so-called “open” MRIs give me the blues. Here’s hoping the cause of the weakness is found and healed.
towerflower~ THANK YOU! I went to my family clinic for a meds check up. They said they had a “new demographics” section they wanted me to fill out. I asked why, but of course the receptionist has no clue. I listed Race: Human. Left the martial status empty. Spouse said I SHOULD have written in “Would be married if this backwoods state would allow me”. MAYBE, just MAYBE some races have higher statistical averages for some diseases, like diabetes or sickle cell. BUT that should come up in the individual patient history and NOT the front page of the insurance info sheet.
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cielo62, I could understand if it was for medical history because of what you said but it was for past xrays and scans and I’ve never heard how one being black, white, blue, or purple has any difference in how the scans are being done.
towerflower~ exactly. I was feeling extremely non compliant that day. They didn’t pursue it.
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Under the G– 66
Woman, found out cast when it happened. Not focused on follow up, tv everymorning for current news. Ues discussed with family. not opinions, no one concluded. She has no opinion on any guilt/innocence. Friedns discuss?– yes, she’s from Chicago, but no opinions from phone calls with friends there.
Pictures both parties, GZ with head injuries, Trayvon with hoodie on, about it. No opinion of hoodie, GZ felt sorry for him– jury consultant alerted to this and nodded.
Demos and protests she saw. Picture sof potential evidence in case? Yes– she saw re-enactment.
Does not always believe what is in news. (not everything believable that you ‘hear)
Proceedings— not watched. Recordings if any– Yes.
Heard recording about neighbr, she heard, call police outside and shot. “I did hear it” on tv.
Conclusions? No sir.
Demonstrations? yes, protesting downtown Sanford, that’s about it. Case or one side or the other? — re wasn’t arrest at first, ‘thought law would take care of it.” Disruptive? “definitely”
Can separate she says.
Money not told to the court… she says. B asks if she can separate it from decision making process? No won’t factor in. she says.
Wife a witness in this case, would wife be more or less credible if not come into the case? She says yes.
You felt sorry– did you come to any conclusions about who was culpable in whatever struggle? No. She can separate, ‘yes’.
No internet searches. Sequester and duration of trial question– no.
Once again Mr. Leatherman can you please give your thoughts on this article.
http://m.dailykos.com/story/2013/06/09/1214336/-DNA-Report-does-NOT-support-Zimmerman-s-claim-that-Trayvon-Martin-caused-his-injuries
These articles written by the professor may help you understand his thoughts.
What Does Zimmerman’s Blood Tell Us?
Rain Did Not Wash Away Defendant’s Blood and DNA in Trayvon Martin Murder Case
A little can be garnished about DNA from:
Trayvon Martin’s Killer Trolls for More Dollars by Offering to Sell his Signed Autograph
Why does Fogen wear bullet proof vest but no tactical helmet? Does he think a potential hit man will only aim for chest?
my thoughts exactly,his head has swollen physically and is set up well above the back of his chair.
I think it’s more a defense perception of poor target on chest defendant than any practical reason inside court
Why does he need a personal bodyguard in a courtroom heavily guarded by armed sheriff’s deputies?
I said that a lot of times
Honestly, if someone was tryna off him, they’d just shoot him in the head or neck area, his arms, or legs
what I would pay for him to sit in court with a tactical helmet…
Hopefully we can get 5 done this afternoon. Probably could if West understood NO.
In honour of PJ last:
purrrrrrrrrfect!
x2
Good afternoon everyone. Figures I got here just at the beginning of lunch recess. I thought they’d be on their way back to court for the afternoon by now. Guess I have time to get a couple chores done before settling in for the afternoon.
Be back in a few, with an ice cold pitcher of fresh squeezed lemonade…
Nef, Your pitcher of ice cold, fresh-squeezed lemonade sounds delicious. Pour us all a little for the afternoon? OMG, thank you.
May I have a slice of lemon for a Diet Coke? Am hooked on chemicals.
I know West was thinking boy I love this guy he’s speaking my language.
bwahahahahahahahahha
Most informative comment of the day!! LOL!
BRILLIANT!
And there’s no simultaneous translator available!
Taking this opp to get out of the house for a bit.
(But, I got quite a lot accomplished in the kitchen.
I’ve should have done this years ago.
Enjoy the break, everyone.
and i’ll do a half assed attempt to have been a productive housewife 🙂
LOL!
I don’t think Judge Nelson is likely to keep this fool around for the next round.
Recess until 1:40 pm.
Recess til 1:40 EST
Breathe in………….breathe out…..Whoa! That sure was a doozey.
so funny.. i didnt get a bad impression at all….
but thats why we all react differently to people, i guess.
Was on a conference call and admittedly listening with half an ear to bits and pieces, but I didn’t find him as offensive as many posters here. … just goes to show. (Will review this session on tape later, if for no other reason than to get a better look at West grabbing a chew of whatever that was from his pocket.)
It’s better to be quiet and thought a fool that to speak and remove every speck of doubt.
One of my favorite quotes!
He assumes if race doesnt’ come up in trial, then he thinks “neither side would think it is noteworthy.”
MOM tries to have him clarify as to what he was really asking. Leave it outside the trial?
What makeup your heritage?
@ay2z,
Re: “The Lopez were descended from the Spanish friar and silversmith Don Francisco Lopez, originally from Granada, in the Andalusian region of Spain. Together with Fray Salustiano Buz, he arrived by way of Acapulco to build Roman Catholic missions in the island provinces of Samar and Leyte.”
Friar Francisco had descendants?
No vow of chastity?
That’s two races if I got it right (German, Filipino, Chinese and Spanish), caucasian and asian.
Yep.
“Spanish?”
Like:
Christina Aguilera?
Roberto Clemente?
King Juan Carlos?
Celia Cruz?
Alberto Fujimori?
Benito Juarez?
Salma Hayek?
Imelda Marcos?
Many Filipinos are “criollos” or descended from Spaniards who migrated to the Philipines.
people from “Spain” is spanish, so basically white people
George Zimmerman’s driving hazards?
Hahahahaha!
parrot, Isn’t Christina Aguilera part Ecuadorian, not Spanish, per se?
She is not a Spaniard, true.
She can’t be Spanish because Spanish is a language.
My point is that the race of people of Hispanic heritage can be black, white, asian or mixed.
Ok, so he could be Spanish heritage depending on whether he is related to Imelda Marcos.
(phillipines has a rich Roman Catholic heritage)
This is from wiki, and he doesn’t think Wiki, though he uses it as a research source, is not reliable.
“Spanish” is a language, not a race. All the above spoke/speak Spanish.
Spain was inhabited for 800 years by the Moors and invaded by Germanic tribes among many other peoples over the centuries.
They are not all white or caucasian.
BTW, Benito Juarez was full blooded Zapoteco, the Mexican Abraham Lincoln. One of the greatest presidents in the history of Mexico. He learned to speak Spanish when he was about 12. Magnificent writer and orator.
This is what he looked like:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benito_Ju%C3%A1rez
A true Giant of a Man!!!
@Parrot
Not sure I understand your reply to me here “Spanish” or your comment below when you say:
.
I never said Spanish was a race but a nationality and a language, and I think I should know having lived in Spain for nigh on 40 years. What I said was that the PJ, by his own description, was a mix of 2 races, i.e.
Spanish & German = caucasian
Filipino & Chinese = asian
I don’t know what you are questioning with your list of “famosos” either. At a guess (I have never heard of some of them) the only Spanish person in there is King Juan Carlos. And I can’t speak for the rest, as I have never taken an interest in their ancestry, but I have studied the Spanish monarchy and I do know that King Juan Carlos is 100% caucasian. Indeed his ancestral line is the, or at least one of the, oldest in Europe, traceable back to the marauding Visigoths some 1500 years ago, and even were his ancestors not ALL descendent from the caucasian peoples of europe, which they ALL are, i.e. Germanics and Latins, (Latin speakers NOT Latin Americans!), I don’t see someone’s racial heritage can be dubious on the basis of a mixture so many centuries ago, even thought that would be perfect for my way of thinking which is we should be one big melting pot anyway!
PS Could it be you are confusing the terms, Spanish and Spaniard ?
No, I’m not confused.
I am referencing (as you pointed out) what this PJ said when he said he had “Spanish” in his lineage. Here in the US, Bolivians, Mexicans, Cubans, Spaniards, etc, etc, are all called “Spanish” when the only thing “Spanish” about them is the language they speak and certain aspects of their cultural heritage.
I, personally, think that labels are too simplistic to convey the complexity of this issue. To illustrate:
Benito Juarez had a masterful command of Spanish and lead a major Latin American country, Mexico. People here in the US would say that the Juarez, the President of Mexico was “Spanish”. The fact is he was full blooded Zapoteco, and although he assimilated splendidly with the Mexican ruling class, his cultural heritage was Zapoteco.
(BTW, not all the Spanish/Spaniards are Caucasian).
I understand better now, but wouldn’t that simply be ignorance by those who use the term “Spanish” to refer to natives or nationals of any country other than Spain.
Interesting, I was always under the impression that in the US you referred to the peoples of south and central America as Hispanics, and not because they spoke Spanish but because of their origins in “Hispania” (the Roman term for the Iberian Peninsula), so if the term is used due language, IMO that is a misnomer, as not every South and Central American country is Spanish speaking because Brazil speaks Portuguese.
I personally use the term “Latin American”, as both Spanish and Portuguese are Romance/Latin languages so IMO it fits well. IIRC it is also the most used in Spain where they also try to distinguish between those of indigenous, mixed (mestizo), or Spanish origin.
In respect of your “BTW”, sorry but I have to disagree with you there, Parrot. Native Spanish/Spaniards are ALL caucasian. Even if you were going with the Basque polemic, recent DNA studies confirm they are European, some of the most ancient, and not from further afield as had at times been theorised due to their peculiar language.
Or perhaps you are referring to the Moors and Jews that occupied the greater part of the Iberian peninsula for centuries? But, although a common mistake, it is incorrect, as both moors (Muslim arabs and berbers) and Jews (Sephardi) all come under the caucasian umbrella the same as the other ethnic groups native to the North of Africa, and even if you were taking a view that the berbers were not caucasian, as history would have it, the Moors were not a “mixing” culture, rather a “live and let live” one, which ties in with recent genetic studies that show a very low percentage of their genetic legacy in the Spanish population.
Thanks for your interesting reply.
Yes, I think it’s a combination of ignorance as well as our tendency to simplify things for ease of reference. Even well-educated people will do it. To illustrate:
A professor of nutrition at a university on the East Coast once told me categorically that she didn’t like “Spanish” food. Her husband, a lawyer, for whom I had worked as a judiciary interpreter, had asked me to help his wife, the professor of nutrition, to cook something of my ethnic background for a dinner party consisting of people from his law firm and the client they represented at the time, a CEO of a major agricultural company.
I knew that what SHE meant by “Spanish” is Mexican food. I didn’t try to explain anything; I just proceeded to make my arroz con codorniz and flan.
That’s why when this PJ said he had “Spanish” heritage; I sensed he did not mean Spain.
Now regarding Jews, Moors etc.:
One of my college professors of Spanish lit was a “sefardita” of the ones who migrated to Greece in the late 15th century. (She spoke Spanish with an accent that had evolved very little from how her ancestors spoke Spanish when they emigrated—it was fascinating to hear her!). She is white.
Light skinned as well as dark skinned moors are depicted in ancient paintings. Do you know if dark-skinned Spaniards of Moorish ancestry exist to this day in Spain? I ask because I don’t know.
The picture is complex. That’s why I don’t think being a Spaniard/Spanish is equal to being Caucasian, although I’ll grant you that a majority have this phenotype in Spain. The genetic studies you quote indicate that there is a small mix. But I specifically had a black Spaniard, Concha Buika, in mind. Her roots are in New Guinea, but she is a Spanish national as well.
Genetic studies are interesting. I’m not against them. IMO, it dispels the notion of national genetic/racial purity, but I do fear what people in power can do with it in terms of policy. (I know that this is separate and apart of what we’re exploring about what “Spanish” means.).
A quote by a leader (a priest) of the Mexican war of independence, Jose María Morelos, that appears on a 50 peso Mexican bill summarizes what, in my opinion, is ideal for political purposes. “Que la esclavitud se proscriba para siempre y lo mismo la distinción de castas, quedando todos iguales, y SÓLO DISTINGUIRÁ A UN AMERICANO DE OTRO EL VICIO Y LA VIRTUD.”
This is the equivalent of MLK’s aspiring that his “four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.”
Think of Gandhi.
Leaders of different cultures and walks of life coming to the same universal truth …
A bit delayed, but I’m afraid I still have to disagree, Parrot. In my books being Spanish/Spaniard IS being caucasian.
Different authors give different nuances on race, and much is being superseded by DNA studies and PC, but as far as I can see all coincide that the caucasoid umbrella covers various subgroups, one the Mediterranean. Definitions note caucasians as indigenous to Europe, North Africa and Western Asia, having white to brown skin, straight to curly blonde to black hair, and light to dark eyes. (There are also some physical characteristics attached but which are only used today in limited situations, interestingly forensics is one, as they are considered pejorative and/or racial, but for the Mediterranean subgroup they include an aquiline nose)
The Spanish, IMO, fit all of these. From my experience, the darkest are no darker than Jews or Arabs, i.e. “olive”, complexion (can be “swarthy” if out in the sun too much!), and the lightest are as fair as the proverbial English rose. In my 40 odd years living in Spain, with ten prior to that spending holidays there, I have never met, seen or heard of a black Spaniard except if nationalised via marriage, immigration, etc. (I spent years during the 70s to 90s frequenting Jazz and Reggae bars and gigs and apart from Cubans and other Latin Americans or US military, not one do I recall!)
IMO, the same as Spike Lee is Afro American, Concha Buika, would be Afro Español. A term I have never heard in Spain, probably due to the de minimis percentage of those of African descent even living there, at least up until the last decade, but which after the immigration explosion caused by the last economic boom, has still left blacks living in Spain at 1.5% of the population which includes the more common Latin American and Caribbean immigrants of black heritage.
Further, my parents had holiday homes and businesses in Spain from when I was 12; my dad on the Costa Blanca, (i.e. Valencia), my mum on the Costa del Sol, (Andalucia), the most significant areas of Moorish occupation and influence. I have not only travelled extensively all over Spain and Portugal but extensively around the Maghreb (Marrocco, Algeria and Tunis), and, albeit mainly in Madrid, I have lived in three other provinces; Valencia, Andalucía, and Barcelona, so it at least gives me some visual knowledge and not even in the Maghreb have I seen any Maghrebis that count as unequivocally black, and you have to go south to the area of the Tuareg to find much darker and even they are mostly olive with blacks in a minority, and from genetic studies it appears are the result of the mixing of both Southern and Northern Africans.
According to the history I studied, the Arabs and Berbers that occupied Spain were from the North of Africa, both of the caucasian group. It is known both sets of invaders brought with them black slaves and/or servants from sub Saharan Africa, as well as some soldiers, (I am not sure whether kidnapped or mercenaries), but the advanced society that came to settle once the army had secured the lands and moved on to invade and secure others, were from my information, caucasian. And any blacks there were among them left no visible heritage of their presence, nor it appears from recent studies, any DNA proof of their presence either.
You would have to point me to the ancient “paintings” with dark and light skinned moors. Except for Persian miniatures and some book and/or manuscript illumination, Muslim art is rarely figural for religious limitations, and surely why they had time to perfect the very complex calligraphic, geometric and arabesque ornamentation they applied to everything, delight and inspiration of graphic artists and illustrators as myself, even today. Muslim illustrations I have seen show the moors as light skinned, with only very few dark skinned humans depicted, most servants, slaves, or soldiers.
What I call “paintings” would have to be by Spanish and/or other European artists at the time of or after the expulsion. I am sure there must be some but I can’t recall specific examples just now, but most Spanish “artists” (they were not “artists” as today but political and religious servants under orders) of the time were from their art tied up “plugging” Christianity as the new and only religion. But as the Spanish say, “La historia lo escriben los vencedores”, so if not servants, slaves or soldiers, it could be “artists” depicted under “orders” darker Moors to distinguish them from natives, or to appear more ominous and/or foreign so as to fit the politics of the day, i.e. to quickly enforce unity and order under one religion and ruler to a land that under Moorish occupation was thriving and prosperous multi cultural and multi religious society, but before which had been a bickering group of small ones; as well as to bleach from memory not only the Moorish creators of the prosperous and advanced society, but also the Moriscos, (natives who had freely converted to Islam and adopted Moorish systems), which they did by expelling hundreds of thousands of them even after they had been forcibly converted back to Christianity, in part to insulate the new Kingdom from a possible fifth column hankering after the good old days.
Interestingly, to right this wrong, there are moves to award those who able to show Moriscan descendence, Spanish nationality after a shorter than usually required, period of residency. Sephardi Jews were awarded this several years ago but since last year can now claim Spanish nationality without ever having been resident.
Hope this is readable and/or useful, and that we can agree to disagree if the case, but we do absolutely agree with the idea that: SÓLO DISTINGUIRÁ A UN AMERICANO DE OTRO EL VICIO Y LA VIRTUD, albeit I might substitute “Americano” for, “UN SER HUMANO” !
BTW – Ghandi has been one of my most admired human beings since I was 14, (a favourite quote; “An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind”)
“SÓLO DISTINGUIRÁ A UN AMERICANO DE OTRO EL VICIO Y LA VIRTUD, albeit I might substitute “Americano” for, “UN SER HUMANO” !
Don Jose Maria Morelos, if he were alive today, would say “¡Amén!”
Check this out for some ancient art depicting black moors:
http://ryfigueroa.blogspot.com/2013/04/afro-iberia-blacks-in-medieval-and.html
Abrazos, amiga–¡Ya quisiera yo conocer tantos pueblos de España como tú!
I forgot to add that it’s true that the word “Hispanics” is also used in the US for Spanish speakers. You’ve made me pause about Brazilians, though. I wouldn’t refer to a Brazilian as Hispanic, but come to think of it, Portugal is an Iberian country (Hispania) as well.
Latin America is fine with me also, although I’m aware that it excludes the native indigenous languages (of no Latin provenance) some of which are co-official languages in the parts of the countries where they are spoken. (Quechua and Aymara in Peru, for example)
No es fácil.
@gbrbsb
@parrot
parrot, what you say about the use of the term ‘spanish’ to describe various nationalities who speak spanish seems to be true for the east coast, i have heard it often. puerto ricans and cubans can be called ‘spanish’ as is anyone from mexico, central america, south america and spain.
this is not true for the west coast and up to the rockies, we typically do not use the term ‘spanish’ to describe anyone who is not from spain. perhaps our history having been spanish then mexican land not so long ago as well as our general proximity to mexico/central america makes it different. the words ‘hispanic’ or ‘latino/latina’ or even ‘mestizo’ are what are commonly used. mestizo refers specifically to the mixed heritage of native tribes and europeans (spaniards). ‘spanish’ could describe food or architecture of spanish (european) origin and ‘spaniard’ would be a european from spain.
@Faux
I forgot I had a direct link and posted an “@Faux” reply to your comment about what makes you “cringe”. Don’t know if you will get notification of it but it’s near the end of this sam thread.
will attempt to find gbrbsb, but the thread is huge, so could be problematic.
@Faux
Interesting comment. You jogged my memory.
As a military brat, I lived in El Paso, and I don’t remember anybody there ever using “Spanish” indiscriminately to apply to anyone Hispanic. The reason they don’t makes sense.
So, I think you’re right, that this indiscriminate use is mostly on the East Coast.
@parrot — i won’t lie, hearing the word ‘spanish’ to describe anything outside of spain much less people from various parts of the world makes me cringe. it would be laughed at in my neck of the woods and even the hispanics wouldn’t have a clue as to the reference.
@Faux
Me too Faux. In fact to hear it is being used like that actually pains me because the Spanish are very different to Latin Americans who are the creators of their own rich and colourful culture even if with a lot of Spanish heritage mixed in. It would be like calling “English” all you lot over there !
gbrbsb~ ENGLISH! In America we haven’t spoken English for YEARS!
________________________________
:-):-):-):-):-)
gbrbsb~ thought you might like that! LOL! I say it all the time, when I’m mourning the death of the adverb.
________________________________
Cielo, you made me remember. An Argentinean part works producer I freelanced with produced a popular English course for the BBC which they marketed also in the US and which was selling fabulously. At a party the BBC CEO, (old boy public school type), came over to congratulate him saying: “That’s right, my boy, we’ll finally teach them to speak proper English” not realising that the ones buying it were the Hispanics !
gbrbsb~ LOL! Yep “Ingles sin Barreras” VERY popular!
________________________________
@gbrbsb
oh, i do envy the time you have spent and places lived in that region. i love it, hope to move there myself if i can convince the husband (who does not speak the language, although he’s of hispanic heritage). nice to hear you agree with me regarding the use of the word ‘spanish’ 🙂
i was really struck by how some words that are commonly used in my native california were used in spain, but to signify different things. the word that i remember most clearly was ‘tortilla’. it seems so obvious to me, that when the spaniards arrived in mexico that they saw natives prepare a food that looked similar to their own egg dish ‘tortilla’ and the name stuck, although a mexican tortilla and a spanish tortilla are very different.
OK Everyone… can we agree that each time he talks about the “people” who complain, don’t know what they are talking about or don’t know the facts…
He is saying blacks are always complaining and don’t know what they are talking about.
This case….*SMH*
I was there 30 minutes ago
he is cryptic about his racism and manipulative about his views
this guy would be a real cancer in the jury
Everyone assumes racism is involved. Okay I am walking away cause this guy is a total moron and he is killing my brain cells.
LOL. ‘Everyone in the room is a bit dumber for having listened to him’
Okay get this guy out of here. Insensitive to racial issues because he never has to deal with racism. NEXT!
MrSykes, Agreed. He appears very insensitive to racial undercurrents in the culture, and almost implies that people tend to attach “race” to conflicts that have nothing to do with race. He has obviously lived either a very charmed life, OR has existed in a cocoon of complete denial for his entire life. There is no part of American culture that is not affected by race, ethnicity, and gender, and yet this guy thinks it premature to deduce that from obvious and systemic acts of aggression against non-whites. He’s either sooo stooopid or lying his butt off. Or both.
He says he’s mixed race or ideas are mixed race? Self-centered, if it doesnt matter to him, “it doesn’t seem to make sense” to him.
He sounds like he’s answering test questions.
and assumes protestors in general, don’t know what they are protesting about, neither does he, so discounts their positiion instead of learning about it.
Assumes “those people” have no position worthwhile. Assumes whatever position they have, is of no consequence to him anyway, even if he knew what that position was.
Assumes protestors have no foundation to protest because they don’t know what they protest is right, anyway.
Assumes that the only think that is important, is what affects voting, if it’s not in the context of voter issues, then it’s not any consequence.
He won’t like make decisions in this case that don’t affect him.
Did he just say “anybody who wasn’t white?”
Weird stuff happens in Florida? Nah just ignorant baby/child killers.
oh dear god, he’s teaching our children — we’re all screwed!
He said TA, but scarey if he means a “teacher’s” assistant not teaching assistant.
DOOMED!
Now we finally know why little Johnny can’t read. And ya’ll thought it was because of Bush!
well considering his age, he well could be a ‘child left behind’
He wants to be on the jury, being careful not to disqualify himself?
Gun law SD law. (he doesn’t remember protestors now, as points related to this case Question.)
He was surprised to find out that this was in florida?
Last job before customer service was a TA. Oh– he’s been a grad student? Or TA as in what?
What’s a TA ?
T- TOTAL
A- ASS
TA at an elementary school I’m sure. He passed out and collected the crayolas.
@gbrbsb – A Teaching Assistant. Generally a grad student. They are coveted positions (or at least they were at the unis I attended), since they come with a stipend.
TA?
In “Fame” it meant “tits and ass.”
In medicine it has meant Therapeutic Abortion.
In Florida it probably means Thorough Assaholic.
Thanks guys… think I’ve got enough definitions to get on with now!
Jury deliberation would take months if this guy is in there.
Banged my head on my desk and he still is making zero sense to me. Has anyone picked up on anything remotely intelligent?
LOL!
Nope.
They know this guy is not sober, why do they continue to question him. Can they flat out ask him if he’s sober? I think at one point they were.
Not saying he’s drunk or high, but he’s trying to come down off something.
I thought he might be learning disabled.
That’s a thought, but it never crossed my mind. If he does have a learning disability, the courts need to figure out how to better assist him. Based on his demeanor today, he’s not fit to serve on a jury.
I think he’s just a stupid person with scrambled thinking.
and as always with a generous helping of arrogance
X 2, Robert SF.
“Mind like a blender with too many settings.”
He don’t know nothing but nothing which makes him smarter than everyone else. Vacuous narcissist.
SYS, Self defense, Castle doctrine… MOM asks what he knows about.
He looked up purposefully, might have done it re this case, maybe coulda.
He is evasive, doesn’t remember anything that he read about the SYG law in florida, not even that there might be something particular about the florida SYG law.
Says used Wiki’, so not reliable source. He doth protested too much?
For someone who finds protesters to be pointless annoyances, he doth!
ayxz, He was about as vague as one could get, don’t you think? Well, he “heard” of Castle Doctring, and he “may” have looked it up, but he really doesn’t “remember” anything. Sure. Sure. I also took notice of his statement that he was interested in unusual legal happenings and tended to follow them, so he “may not” have looked up Castle Doctrine in regard to the Trayvon Martin case. Sure. Sure.. What a liar this guy is, trying to paper over his real point of view so that he can slip in under the wire.
This is an unemployed PJ who does not discuss this national case with anyone online or otherwise?
the Boston bombing does not affect him
OK this guy is nuts
this guy probably does not care at all about jelly
“I don’t even like jelly. I don’t even like jelly. I get hives if I even look at jelly. I don’t even know about jelly. what is jelly? I don’t even care.”
defense has brought up ‘self defense’ to everyone this morning, whether the pj mentioned it or not. do not like!
I can’t say I’m surprised. From how I recall it MOM has made noises of late that it will be the last minutes of the struggle on which he is resting his case.
Lunch break can’t come too soon for me.
This PJ a very bad philosopher and is disturbingly apathetic.
He has no regard for death. It doesn’t effect him.
Give him the hook.
The Boston marathon bombing has no impact in my life. wow!
get him out of here so he can attend his birthday party.
did he say ‘that’s a poison they take.”??
About protestors protesting about something worth protesting about.
(He doesnt’ think they can know they are absolutely right, protestors can’t know if they are really right? Sore arse he must have.)
If he thinks this way about protestors, will he think this way about witnesses and about his co-jurors opinions during deliberation? Those jurors have to decide on evidence that is not 100% and that seems to be with what he wants. Absolute and clear..
He doesn’t think ANYTHING in the news effects him personally, including the Boston bombing. Only things that matter is ‘voting’.
PJ’s not a big picture guy, is he?
I would challenge this guy for cause because he is a self-centered asshole.
(Yes, I’ve actually done that before in court)
LOL!! A self-centered asshole with a “sore arse”.
he he he. good choice of words. Seating a jury is hard stuff.
No one really wants to do it… in a perfect world, there would be no more violence, therefore no more need for juries and deliberations… but it is what it is…
amen brother!
(ps — sent you an email last night, no hurries)
did it work? because we should send Bernie a text or tweet 🙂
Ha, ha, ha! I’m finding him supremely annoying, and I’d hate to work with him because of his speech mannerisms, but you seem to really dislike him. What did he do?
Okay, I’ve found and added day 5 to the video playlist. What day was crazy lady on? I was listening but somehow missed her. Day 3?
@ Lonnie,
Terrific that you are doing this. Quality and sound are great. There appears to be a gap between the last 2 reports. Id like to see Bernie’s interview of the young black teacher (don’t know for certain he is a teacher, but he’s part of the educational establishment).
Thanks!
That PJ is G81.
@Professor Fred,
Re PJ G-81; The video with Bernie’s interview is not included (or I couldn’t locate it.)
Any advice?
Don’t know.
Where did you look?
Hang tight, when I’m finished the mail I’m going to hunt down and create a comprehensive playlist of all witness vids I can find. I’ll probably have to join work from several posters, but I think I’ll get’er done, I’ll post back when I do.
Lonnie- you are TREMENDOUS! Thank you! An archive of how justice gets done (for the layperson).
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
You’re quite welcomed and thanks. I’ve got the “bat” lady up (she isn’t quite as bats as she sounds, but she doesn’t seem to realize that she’s formed her “steadfast” opinions around news that was nothing but lies. It’s hard to convince some people that the media lies through their teeth, does so very easily and without a conscious thought about the terrible consequences for the people they’re lying about, or for the bad condition they leave their viewer in.
Talking heads are totally worthless sources of news and I cut them off whenever and where ever they appear. Things are so bad they even lie about the weather forecasts. Especially when there are gains to be made by making some politician look heroic and prepared.
Oh well, here are the pj vids that AxiomAmnesia is missing:
B12, B30, E7, E75, K80, K95, N18, B34, G14, G87,H6
Hopefully they will be found in their day 1 to 5 vids, which I’ll go after later.
He would be on day 5
Just start the video and cursor down to the bottom right rollover buttons, the left most one is the playlist control, click it and up pops a small picture index of every video in the play list with scroll buttons on the left and right ends. Find the day you want and click it, that day will start playing.
To skip dead time (which the poster included), put your cursor on the bottom red line and move it to the right, you’ll see thumbnails pop up, so you can click and advance past the dead spaces.
@Lonnie,
Day 5 = the last two vids, right? I viewed them twice.
First part of G-81 (w/Bernie) is not there.
Something missing?
Yes, I just learned that posters to youtube, who are following the trial are not as fastidious as I had believed they were, they’ve left out different things. So now I’m going to have to go through them one at a time to collect a complete series. Professor has given me juror numbers to look for, that will be a big help. Trouble is only a few posters have titled their vids by the jurors they contain, most are doing it either by date, day or juror nos. and missing parts because they’re away from their computers.
They should have learned about the windows scheduler, which you can use to set programs to start and run unattended, even when you can’t be there. Of course, there could also be screw ups as well, but at least there a chance when you can’t be there. Oh well. More work for me.
@Lonnie –
I was going to say “you’re a real workhorse, Lonnie!”
That’s not good enough. You’re a true warrior!
Thanks, Lonnie.
I believe she may be E81, the third PJ questioned on Thursday morning (Day 4).
OH GOSH!!! I finally get around to playing day 4 and notice that the author only picked up 30 minutes of day 4, so I had to go get Trent Sawyers Day 4 and 5. Now I’ll have to check to see if the other days are full days as well. Ahhh… just when you thought things would be easy! Oh well. Next I’ll look for some replacements for the play list that don’t have comments. But that will take a while. At least Trent turned the sound up. 😆
@ Lonnie,
Thanks for he intensity of your work!
This is really important.
Know you’ll deliver.
A thousand thanks!
P-Mom~ If he’s delivering, should we give him a tip?
________________________________
Okay, I’ve gotten Trent Sawyers videos and I’ve also got AxiomAmnesia, both on playlists. The AxiomAmnesia sound
isn’t as good as Trent’s but no commentary.
At least now I’ve got the whole thing. Just browse for the video you prefer.
Good morning, Fred, and thanks for the great comments.
So, I had to laugh and then ask you: how do you challenge a guy in court for being a self-centered asshole? What do you say to the court? “This gentleman is an exercise in the most extreme form of solipsism to the degree that it involves his organ of elimination”??
It’s the UNcentered assholes that bother ME the most.
He’s thinks, but he’s not really thinking. Hook him up with a drug counselor. What matters to him on this Friday afternoon is Happy Hour!
Did he have a little too much coffee this morning?
Yeah, while trying to get sober.
No or he would have asked for a pee break by now. Maybe not enough to get him past stammering mode….
OMara is trying to save him from himself
Basically he is saying Trayvon was not worth protesting over, the lack of arrest was not worth protesting over
Well, whatever he feels, it is a basic constitutional right, for citizens and visitors of the US
But to be honest, the recent self defense cases in Arizona and Florida are not putting those two states in a good light, so probably not going to be a lot of visitors to the 2 states till the outcome of the trials
I would not be surprised if people start moving out of those states
but if the state does a good job, then it will make people feel more welcome
X2, Tzar. That comment about people protesting “before they even know if they’re right” [paraphrase] was chilling. It certainly sent a signal that he thinks protests are worthless, and that would include the protests on behalf of Trayvon.
Dumb NOT “as a rock” but as an absent non-mineral rock that is irrelevant besides.
Trying to find out what matters to this dude is like trying to guess what’s inside an empty sack.
There is no substance.
No there, there.
BOOM!!!
“to me I think there is no need to be a protester when there is nothing worth protesting about”
he is done
ergo GZ should not have been arrested
Even the jury consultant looks confused.
thinking this JP has some mental issues or is on medications.
don’t know what his deal is
does he even have a deal?
lol
that is a direct quote from some lecherous perv following me down the street when i gave him no response 🙂
‘whats your deal? do you even have a deal?”
it has struck me funny for over 20 years now.
sounds like the Howie’s “Let’s Make a Deal show.” lol
Good grief, why can’t he get it out? Now that’s annoying!
I think both parties will send him home today or to rehab. Using words he doesn’t know the meaning of.
Why won’t MOM or BDLR just tell the kid you don’t make any sense.
I don’t know what this guy’s deal is…..
I know I’m jumping to conclusions, but his speech mannerisms remind me of people who think they’re a lot smarter than they really are. And to come across as smart, they go on endless stuttering monologues.
Demonstrated by his changing the correct term, stereotype for… archetype !!! ???
I think you have hit the nail on the head…
He thinks having involvement in politics / political awareness makes intellectually superior… especially to those who protest.
What a jerk!
Stereotype as example of a ‘bro’ or ‘hipster’, attached to some type of character, archetype, but he doesn’t actually know anyone who actually fits the stereotype.’
MOM– is Trayvon Martin an archetype?
PJ says they don’t reflect reality.
But MOM asks him about protestors in context with the case. PJ says — There has to be something worth protesting over, he doesn’t know how to id what needs protesting, pj doesn’t know answer this.
He knows something about arrest not right away.
MOM would you hold it against protesters?
PJ “they were completely irrelevant.”
You know, “Trayvon-like dudes with their pants down.”
Okay what is this guy getting at with the archetype talk?
he started off with the concept of ‘stereotypes’ … not good.
Protesters is code for black people.
*protestor
It should be against the law to continue to question a pj who is obviously under the influence of something.
I think he’s trying to hard, but I don’t know what he’s trying.
This guy is not functioning with a sober mind. Send him to the tank already.
That was exactly what I was just thinking. Sometimes he sounds nervous and sometimes he’s acting nervous. Not the same thing, to me.
I think he’s acting.
Don’t be too hard on him; I think he has some of that short-term vision. You know —
according to HLN court reporter: G63 just leaned forward toward Mark O’Mara. Subtle but it tells u g63 views him favorably.
telling
I wondered if he may be actually pro State and is shrewdly trying to hide it.
Now that I learn that he’s leaning towards O’Mara, I find it unlikely that he’s pro State.
Body language doesn’t lie.
He’s not leaning forward toward O’Dirty because he favors him, he’s coming off a binge.
and is hoping o’mara will give him a nip from his hip flask?
This guy apparently does not know there will be no Happy Hour during jury duty. I guess it’ll be like going to a free rehab and getting paid for it. Poor thing.
This guy is very capable of some insanely logical decision.
Thinking that Fagan told his attorney on this JP that “he is acting strange and is a suspicious guy”, glad he doesn’t have a phone to call NEN or a gun on him. sheesh.
lol
O’Mara: Would you agree this case has achieved notoriety.
PJ; It’s just… it… it’s just that it’s everywhere so you… you can’t… you can’t get away from it.
Why can’t he just answer, “Yes?”
I think he’s trying to find some depth in his answers. But nothing is there. lol!
I think the guy should bow out , stop making himself look bad
What Omara means is
“Have you seen me on TV 24-7 smearing the dead kid my client murdered I mean killed in self defense because he fight clubs?”
Hot doggit! I thought about offering him a cup of coffee or some bitters.
O;Mara plays water server nice guy again.
I think this guy is an arrogant jerk and I would not want him on the jury. My dislike is more personal than anything else and I certainly would not want to spoil this dude’s birthday party.
OK, now that you’ve said it
I can go ahead and say what i really wanted to say
I think this guy is an asshole and he enjoys being an asshole
Professor, I concur.
arrogant was certainly my opinion. HIS circle doesn’t concern themselves with stuff like this. Is it possible to get a perjury charge during voire dire?
Oooops! Meant to say “doesn’t”
Ha no problem serving as long as it doen’t interfere with his Happy Hour.
He just made a decision!!! He can move his birthday party back.
LMAO
Should the system better prepare potential jurors before questioning?
It seems too many answer questions before the questions are fully formed, and they don’t answer concisely. Further, it’s as if they think they’re expected to answer one way or the other, or that they’ll be proven wrong, so things actually get adversarial.
They should simply answer the questions fully and plainly.
Can’t that be revealing in ways the court and lawyers want revealed?
I guess, though I think what it mostly reveals is natural nervousness.
Why can’t this guy just answer forthright?
Because he has a STRONG opinion that he needs to hide
I agree. Too much stammering like he is afraid to say the wrong thing.
I think so.
Yes.
But, I wonder.
Do you think there’s a possibility that his opinion leans towards the State and he’s wily enough to try hiding it?
no, I think his comment about the protesters is him leaking, I think he has so many strong opinions that they overflow out of him, and that was the most benign one that he could allow out.
And there is O’Mara leading him right down the path
I agree. Faux posted that he leaned forward when O’Mara started his questioning. Body language doesn’t lie.
I agree Tzar… most of his activity online is focused on Politics… Yeah, he’s trying to hide behind fake ignorance, but can’t seem to hide those negative racial views.
mushy answer regarding info obtained outside of court versus witness testimony.
bernie playing up hardship of sequestration. may have to burn a peremptory here when time comes.
Claims not to have formed an opinion about the guilt or innocence of the defendant.
This guy is starting to hear “It’s 5:00 somewhere” in his head.
He’s not an easy decision maker.
*whistle*
There is a particular person on FB who has disappeared. She lives in the Seminole County, thinking she got a subpoena. She belongs to that Fagan page. It was said by some of those who sit there 24/7 on that page that if they got a subpoena they were going to try their best to get in the jury pool so a mistrial can happened. Can that happened Mr. Leatherman?
Yes, it can and that is a possibility that we are concerned about.
Sounds like this has an implication for the future of the court system. Maybe this will be something you can write about when this trial is over, Fred?
FB doesn’t allow anyone to disappear, from what I understand.
Not disappear… but gone from Facebook. sorry I need to choose my words wisely, but others know what I mean. I hope the clerk of Seminole County Court received my email regarding this three weeks ago.
cc to SAO?
He is pretty sure he hasn’t formed an opinion………
In the words of my wise grandmother, “He who straddles the fence ends up with a sore arse”.
would have gotten along well with my father who liked to sing “it’s an ass ache, riding on a hay rake”
Bonnie Tyler!
yupperz 🙂
LOL!
Knows about protests, accusations that racism was involved and that someone lost their job or resigned.
Seems as if the same people are complaining every time something happens (i.e., people who complain about everything without knowing how difficult it is to do stuff).
People who complain annoy this guy.
Me thinks he needs to lay off The Wiester’s snuff. He’s annoying.
ahhhhh haaaa — ‘people protesting there aren’t enough benefits’. might be as close as we’ll get.
Wonder if Bernie knows something, he’s asking about friends, family, any discussions about the case.
He has ‘political’ stuff on his threads, and maybe gun law related, general not case specific he thinks.
He remembers scandal, firing for mishandling the case. Z not immediately arrested, ;guess’ Z not immediately arrested, no idea who, or kind of positions.
Thinks there were accusation of racism, doesn’t know if Seminole or other police in allegations, seems like same kinda people ‘who protest everything.’.
He trying to say protestors don’t know what they are protesting? Same people complaining about everything anytime controversy.
B inquires about subject complained about.
B: Who are these people? Citizens or faction?
Jury room– comments about money, for example and accusing without knowing what talking about. (govt in general)
Did you watch? No first hand knowledge.
Isn’t he assuming ‘those’ people didn’t know what they were protesting, yet he says he doesn’t know about the protests and what they were about?
He says ‘it’s annoying.” He assumes any govt protestors are annoying, he doesn’t like it when people accuse other people are wrong.”
What context, B asks: Says two sides protesting, he doesn’t like any of them. He thinks they both can’t be right.
Getting back to West. Who’s taping this and can do a replay? What was that brown rectangular thing where West pulled out, broke off at least a quarter to a third and popped it into his mouth before shoving the unwrapped remainder into his pocket?
This was no Chiclet or piece of gum.
wftv has all the daily video segments on their trial topic page.
(complete day in segments)
Here it comes…
Black folks making trouble. Says same folks always complaining about something.
He didn’t know who was protesting, but he knows it’s the same people and he finds them annoying… WTF?
No way he’s of quality to be on this Jury.
I do not like this guy.
Me either… closet racist!
He seems not to have the processing power. He’s scary
That too…
Bernie will have this guy forgetting his own name in a minute. This guy must be dipping some of The Wiester’s snuff.
This PJ has a little problem, Bernie is smarter than he is and he does not realize it
Annoying!!
This is getting Very Interesting.
Get him out of here, he doesn’t like that black people protest, thinks they protest all the time.
Same people complaining???? Wonder which people he is talking about!!!!
Those same old black folks?!
He is trying hard to gather his words without saying race baiters, blacks, al sharpton etc…
“The same people seem to be complaining about everything”
C’mon Bernie
get him to say it
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
“Those People”
… would that be those complaining negroes wanting their riiiights??
yup, seeing it now.
He’s not being forthright.
I agree.
yup!!!
He is whistling to the defense
This guy is scary, protesting is a bad thing.
He would have been a tory in 1776. hear hear
Is now a good time to say Holy Smokes?
Oh. (singing, Getting to know you…)
I like a person who enjoys language.
Where has Robbie the racist been?
WHAT … Did West just take a plug of chewing tobacco and shove it in his mouth? What was that?
Did Don West just put snuff in his cheek?
ROTFLOL! Are you serious? I missed that. Too funny. I heard Dental Bitter makes the best snuff there is. You know some people get high on that stuff?
whonoze — can you believe that? Am not prepared to say he looked furtive as he did it, but he was seemingly in speed mode.
Could he be trying to stop smoking in the middle of the trial of the century?
I find it very interesting that none of the pj’s (at least none that I can recall) aren’t mentioning O’Dirty’s inadmissable photos and text messages which has been all over FB, the web, MSM, etc.
Oh, I do remember Mrs. PJ, Mrs. “We need more guns”, “He didn’t have a daddy in his life” mentioning it, I think. Or was it the Mrs. PJ married to the retired cop?
IIRC those PJ’s you mention were one and the same.
Thanks.
Gunning for an impartial jury of the black, the hispanic, the asian, and the white women jurors
Want to see Fogen’s racist bigot head explode and as well as Robbie The Racist
Welcome to the real USA, pouty and pudgy.
That’s what My world looks like. Los Angeles.
Someone give this pj a red or blue pill.
LOL that’s what i want
I know for a fact that their family is racist and they do not like their latino heritage nor do they like blacks and arabic people, as well as women
If they found impartial jurors who fall into those groups for the jury, it would make Robbie The Racist and Fogen so angry, they would be itching to tweet out something racist or bigoted
I would find that funny as hell
Especially the Asian lady because after hearing all the evidence and the witnesses, she will probably vote for the death penalty even though it does not apply in this case LOL
God’s plan, God’s plan.
Good morning Jun
GM
Robbie the racist will let it all out once they cuff his killer brother. They will go on for years and years! That will all be a part of the movie he plans on!
My cat keeps pooping on the floor 6″ to 9″ from the litter box. Maybe I should rename her DonnaWest? Nah, I still like her…
clean the box!! lol! Cats have strange messaging systems.
Heh.
Maybe your moggy needs glasses !
@whonoze –
I will give you the absolute solution to your kitty’s problem (it’s actually more kitty’s problem than yours).
You have to look at their instinct: in the wild, or any place outdoors, urination and defecation are two distinctly separate processes, done one after the other, in separate places, maybe a foot away.
EVERY TIME.
And a cat will instinctively cover up, because they do not want the scent broadcast to predators. They are basically a desert animal with access to little water, thus the urine is strong-smelling. They know this.
All animals fear predators and will do everything to avoid them.
Solution is simple: buy 2, repeat 2, cat litter boxes and keep them side by side. Use scoopable cat litter, and scoop often and discard. Keep the level of scoopable cat litter high enough that kittly can scratch up a mound. Always keep an extra bucket of litter on hand.
If you have litter boxes in more than one room, DOUBLE UP in every location.
Watch your kitty perform and she or he will prove this to be right.
FYI, I hope you are an enlightened pet owner/protector who would never physically discipline a cat, especially in or near a litter box, or stick his or her nose into any “mistakes.” This will only instill fear of the kitty box into your furry friend, or fear of elimination. This becomes a terrible problem.
It’s a nice touch to pat kitty and say “Good –(name)–” after kitty performs in one of your tandem boxes. A little friendly hands-on praise does wonders.
If you sense kitty is feeling emotionally neglected because you are glued to your computer, thus pooping to get you to pay attention, make a simple game out of “catch” because you can easily do this at your desk. Wad up paper balls and shoot them out for kitty to chase – although you’ll have to go round picking them up later.
Best of all is get a bag of soft kitty-treats and shoot them off every few minutes for kitty to chase.
No clean-up. Kitty will eat them.
@Piranha never thought i say, can’t wait too buy another litter box. i’ll will pass this kitty history to other cat lovers i know.
i remember my kitty was just a little one, he use to hop on the keyboard and tap it mimicking me typing. watched the monitor then plop right across the keyboard my pointer was moving everywhere on the screen lol lol lol. thank goodness he doesn’t do that anymore, he’ll lay close putting his paw on my arm.purrin too cute.
@ P-Mom and ic2fools- another little tip. DON’T buy litter boxes. Instead head over to Home Depot and buy a cement tray, the long black ones. They’re cheaper, easier to clean since nothing much sticks to them, and they last a long time. Cats like them better since they get more room for their business.
>^..^< FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
cool beans as good as bought. my kitty is big babi who needs that extra space.
lol, Pmom wrote thow paper wads for them to chase. i remembered a couple years back we had a tiny mouse in the breezeway. needless to say i jumped on the couch screamin for my attack kitty. ha, that mouse ran right into his face, my kitty yawned streatched an turned over! i cussed him out, got a brown and shovel and chased the damn thing myself. caught it threw it outdoors and tossed my catout right behind that damn mouse. he got the message lol lol lol
Anybody else loose feed?
…nevermind…
feed is ok, I found it better to have two browsers up because Safari has problems.
This guy is lying
he is covering up
Bernie should get rid of him
Agreed. Scroll up and see my comments to Professor.
i think a zimfender would not go so far as to say “i saw photos of the deceased and the shooter”. dude seems very unclear on florida gun laws – at the moment, i’ll respectfully disagree.
he seems to be obfuscating
he seems evasive
Exactly! But if I’m not mistaken, he brought up the subject. He’s trying to be stealth and knows more than he’ll admit.
He is slowly unraveling as Bernie Persists
You see
he is trying not to telegraph what he actually thinks
i took it to be inarticulate at first, but evasive seems more likely.
he has very strong opinions that he is trying to hide
now he’s getting sketchy about ‘people who protest everything’ which makes me want to ask ‘which people? blacks?’ not sure yet.
He’s not even a good liar either, too nervous.
Yeah, I agree.
Next in the box: G63
This guy is referring to Florida as though he’s a recent resident or a visitor, why does he keep mentioning Florida?
strange, he’s lived in florida always. Moved to Sem’l county 5 yrs ago.
So many people don’t care about it. Bernie goes quickly into FB Q’s.
Gu law related FB comments, B asks case related to gun issues, pj says he heard SYG law and gun was involved.
B anything about how Z came into contact with T?
“something about Fla law being weird” and he has “heard about castle doctrine.”
His Dad tole him he got a summons and poss this trial. He made conscious decision not to look at anything else.
re self-defense was defendant’s claim. Heard SYG was the self defense law.
ay2z~ sounds like a recent Florida transplant from Texas. We call it the Castle Doctrine.
________________________________
**feeling like an old fart because i gather news from a variety of sources, not relying on FB**
and why in the name of all that is holy do these lawyers not at least attempt to get the hang of FB so they do not need an explanation of how it works every time??? grrrrrrrr
They know how it works. They just want to find out what the pj does/says so they know what to ask and how to frame the question.
they seem a bit baffled on the ‘news feed’. it’s a standard feature on all accounts and the default location.
news feed? i don’t think it’s a default. i don’t get one. maybe i opted out when i first got there.
fb posts ads on my wall. i hide them, then they want to know why. the third time the same ad shows up i label it obscene.
the news feed is the stuff that shows up in the middle of your home page and updates regularly when any of your contacts posts something. i’d be shocked if you did not have that.
I have news feed but it’s only the stuff from my fb friends. Recently I’ve been getting an occasional ad. But, then, I’m fussy about who I friend.
that’s it though — it is your default view. youngsters have a lot more friends, ‘like’ a lot more pages/causes and use it for a lot more then you or i would.
join the club !
Guy sounds really nervous.
west is embarrising , i really do hope that he display this same stupitness during trail . he”s a common jack ass .
Under the G — 63
What happened, was he dismissed, or not ?
Prof says no reason for cause so guess not.
Perfect.
mmm mmm mmm
that little brown girl sitting behind the defense is so easy on the eyes. She is the defense’s double threat optic true secret weapon.
Oh yes, secret weapon disguised as eye candy
Agreed. Secret ploy to divert eyes from the beady-eyed weasal killer.
west is an old shit bag! thats all he is. he really dosent seem to have any business in the court room! he in the way.
Yep
Maybe he was a good lawyer during his younger years, but now he seems to be one foolish man. I am ever happy that he is the killers attorney though. At $350 an hour, those donations aren’t going to far! Ha
Mr. Guy keeps his good ear turned to the at-bench conversation. Fogen is doing about 60 breaths per minute. Microphones off.
60 breaths per minute?
GZ may have panic episodes.
West is arguing to excuse this guy but there is no basis to do so.
He’s really making an ass out of himself.
If West can’t manage to get him dismissed does that mean he will face an even worse battering from him next round ?
Agree. Though I did see three things that could be objectionable about this juror.
1.- He answers questions before the question is finished.
2.- He claims an awful lot of ignorance. How can someone not have seen pictures of Trayvon Martin by now?
3.- He’s not categorical in his answers — “Yes, sort of,” “Pretty much,” and “Not really.” I know that’s a style of speaking that many younger people adopt to avoid the assertiveness of categorical answers, but I can imagine it’s still unnerving in the context.
Non categorical answers are a sign of intelligence. Few things are absolute. Perhaps a more precise non-categorical answer would be “For all intents and purposes, no” as opposed to “Not really,” but that’s what he means, I think.
Not everyone follows everything
The Casey Anthony case was huge and I never followed that crap and all I heard was they found a dead baby (which grossed me out)
@whonoze, Good point.
@Jun, I know what you mean. I didn’t know anything about Jodi Arias until almost the last month of the trial.
I didn’t follow Arias OR Anthony. I followed JonBenet Ramsey and I lectured about it for the Public Health Service. I followed this case. But very few others.
Bill Schafer notes that as a restaurant worker this guy would be in the weeds if he bothered to chit-chat about politics or think about anything but the customers orders. Great point.
Yes, good point.
i find his commentary to be insightful. mention of his own restaurant work contrasts starkly with west’s oblivion.
Did anyone just see how West look at BLDR but BLDR did not back don’t back down he gave a even meaner stare back.
Yes, was it about the questions on race? I though I actually heard BDLR cough or clear his throat.
My bad his name is BDLR instead of BLDR.
Waoo, Fogen is really looking very tense. What happened today?
He goes into potted plant mode now and again, as he’s doing now.
Yeah, he realizes that killing a kid is no longer a laughing, smirking and snickering matter! People from all walks of life despise him. After yesterday’s draining questioning, I sure will be glad when they cuff him for good!
Beautifully put: Killing a kid is NO LONGER a laughing, smirking and snickering matter.
Furthermore, it is no longer a thing that can blow over.
It is no longer a thing that can be automatically re-defined.
It is no longer a thing that can be blamed on the victim.
Welcome to non-Fantasy World 2013. Get ready.
One day soon, the bailiff standing behind gz is going to step forward and ask gz to “step this way”, and he’ll disappear through that doorway behind him. Tttthhaaaat’s All Folks!
Lonnie~ And you will hear such a shout of JOY! YAY!! gz is locked away!
________________________________
The roller coaster ride that jury selection is taking him on is taking it’s toll. You can see it in his expressions and “far away” eyes, as he peers into to past and remembers that his future depends on what is hidden there.
Every once in a while an attorney will say a key word “screams”, “gunshot”, “police” and such and gz’s face will glaze over or his smile will not be as bright as it might be. I noticed that once when he almost seem to be about to laugh, the Consultant and West moved in quickly to talk to him, quickly suppressing his mirth. You can see him struggling to try and stop himself from thinking about his future, when things are said that would evoke such thoughts. He definitely does not like to hear phrases like “after the trial”, or “you can go home”.
His only survival mechanism right now is denial.
Lonnie- GZ also has episodes of glaring and swallowing hard when he hears things that he knows will send him to hell for the rest of his life. No doubt he’s being medicated to prevent him from jumping up and doing something impulsive. Too bad.
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
It’s called “pharmacological restraints”. But no, it’s better that he is medically restrained because he could easily do something to cause a mistrial. Like lunging at Omar and breaking his nose. Definitely a mistrial, since the jurors would see all that blood and those black eyes, that would not compare well to gz evidence photos.
The clock is winding down. No more time.
Ok, is this sidebar because West didn’t believe PJ’s last answer and is trying to dismiss for cause ? Can he claim a prospect is liar just like that ?
This guy will be a good prosecution juror. There is no basis for a cause challenge. They will have to use a peremptory, unless some other basis to excuse for cause comes up at the group voir dire.
That is two per-emp on defense’s list already today.
I think the preferred response would be: “I don’t know what other people know because I’m not talking about it to them and they aren’t talking about it me, so, again, how should I know, Mr. West? “
WHAT was that ‘look’ between west and bernie???
missed it
I saw that too… I think it was PJ’s last answer about not knowing if protests were race related which is a bit of a stretch but not impos either or PJ may have just got confused after so much unrelenting badgering.
WTF is West going for?
the stuff has been on TV a lot
we get it
I am considering a visit to Florida just to smack this man. Lol
while there slap 81 for me. 🙂
Me too! I love this guy!
Yeah this guy erks me too. Flippant, dismissive and arrogant come to mine. Oh and please French slap B81 for me too and walk on her grass.
mine = mind.
One of these days I will post an error free comment…. geeez!
No for her, take you dog for a walk and have it leave behind a surprise in her yard.
Is G47 a restaurant owner or an employee?
Just promoted to assistant manager
Assistant manager…
That’s what I thought. He confused me when he said his store and his employees.
Maybe he works for a chain and that is just the industry lingo.
Thanks!
I try to keep my employees busy … they really shouldn’t be watching television …at work”.
Well, dang (as SheLie would say), what a spoils sport this PJ is 🙂
Correction, the yellow tie is ‘gold’, shiny yellow gold. That’s got to be expensive!! 😉
Whatever color, I think it looks like cheezy-cheap polyester.
West has met his match!
Hahahaha. I keep my employees busy. They shouldn’t be watching television.
500 customers per day at his work. “Typically I remember their orders.”
Beauty, eh? After yesterday’s batch, except the t shirt guy and maybe one other, the pj’s today have raised my opinions of folks in general up a notch or two.
There it is. Give it up Mr. West.
No, he let him carry on because if this prospect gets in he won’t forget this badgering for sure and it will count against West’s crosses.
West is not asking about FB, yet.
He doesn’t recall clothing in photo of Trayvon. (no mention of hoodies)
young black male. West is going to ask did you see Trayvon holding gun in a photo?
To me, in his tone and delivery this PJ comes across like Jesse Eisenberg in one of his “biggest smartass in the room” roles.
Bwa wa wa… West can’t believe the witness couldn’t remember seeing GZ’s “life threatening” (according to him) injuries.
Or the recent inadmissable dump of photos and text messages.
Oh, hadn’t caught that bit… how very distressing for him !
West is dying to ask did you see Fogen covered in blood?
He’s also dying to hear him say Trayvon in the red shirt.
Yep.
Great! West is antagonizing and alienating jurors before the jury is even seated. They won’t forget what a jerk he was.
high priced juror expert is going to have to recommend striking what would have been perfectly good jurors due to west’s badgering.
If they don’t pre empt him, he sure will remember this prospect abuser/batterer.
This pj is able to put distractions in their place.
Mr Martin, Mr Zimmerman, and there was a shooting.
BAM!
Fogen looks like he thinks West is on drugs or something. Watch your back West.
He doesn’t know what West’s deal is
That mouth like a shark’s…
Looks like he’s up to no good (again).
Fogen is no longer full of greasy smiles. What happened? Did they get more bad news from the prosecution and/or their own experts?
Could West do more to alienate the jury pool?
i suppose … if he worked at it. this is just what comes naturally.
OMG… “It’s perfectly ok that you did”… he’s like a dog with a bone.
I mute the TV all the time, West.
Translation:
Just like I’m about to do to you.(pj thoughts about The Wiester)
I am liking our choices this morning. Hopefully West sits down in the near future.
Don’t hold your breath, he’s still got to find a way to ask his opinion again without JN realizing.
West is turning himself into a caricature of a lawyer on the national stage.
No, not really. … All these LEADING questions presumably aren’t going to be allowed at trial, why are they allowed in this kind of proceeding?
Sorry .. this response popped up in wrong place. No not really was another response, for the umpteenth time from PJ to West’s forever leading inquiries.
chariacature, left hand grabs the fabric of golden tie near neck and pulls directly upward
Would serve him well to take a 20 minute power nap at lunch time.
West has been at least a couple of mins without asking his opinion… be he is going to try again to sneak it in ?
“bet he is….” not “be…”
West is certainly going to check his facebook posting.
Give it up, West. You’re not going to fox this PJ.
I love this guy.
(Dang, and we’re all out of deviled eggs, too.)
Just as well, what with the calories and all.
I’ll give you a preview. After the lunch break, I’ll be serving fresh smoothies.
(And, West doesn’t get offered one.)
This youngest is good!
Ain’t he! The Wiester is going to be wore out after all this. I guess he never heard of the KISS rule.
How do tragedies in other countries affect him but not local events?
He may have have travelling family members who were in Asia when one of those occurred.
That would be your decision if we have covered enough, he tells West.
Speaks his mind.
West must sound like badgering grandpa to this guy.
dude says he thinks zimmerman is almost in a worse position than martin ???
in theory, west should like this guy, but has antagonized him by his own buffoonery
It’s almost as though he’s sub-consciously working against his client. Something ain’t quite right.
He said that yes. He was not asked about the parents of the victim, sitting in court, waiting and listening and aching through this
West is ticked b/c he G47 won’t bite! LOL!
Smack number 2!
LOL! Go, G47!
There is that not really again and damn West stops short when he hears it too.
I think West realizes to his chagrin that he is probably more pro Trayvon than not.
I was thinking the very same thing, and I believe he felt that way before this phase. Something just isn’t quite right.
Ha! Did you guys see that look on Bernie’s race regarding the forth and back between the Judge and West? West is a joker. LOL.
… that look on Bernie’s face regarding …(I meant to say)
West will cause most to give him that look throughout this trial. So glad the killer has him as an attorney.
West is making a fool of himself and it’s painful to watch.
Maybe he’s one of those self-loathing individuals who doesn’t care if others find him distasteful too. But, he’s not doing his client any favors. Or, the justice system.
OH…you’re the one with the questions. Ouch.
It really is sad. While I absolutely despise some of the nasty tactics they’ve used, and hope they are held accountable, I really do hope and pray “The Wiester” is well physically and mentally.
damn it I missed it 😦
West wants it from him bad…..
Okay! The Wiester is even starting to bore his client. And Judge “Peppermint Patty” looks as though she’s had about enough as well.
Don West is a crazy mofo.
The yellow ties syndrome? Causing jaundice brain?
As crazy as his client, right. He annoys the crap out of me.
The Treepers secret weapon comment went to his head!
Thank you Judge… and West stop badgering prospects!
JN “he’s answered it 3 of 4 times already!” go judge!
Dang – how many times does he have to say it? Geez
What is wrong with West?
How many times does this guy have to tell West that he does not have an opinion about guilt or innocence.
West is really going to tick off the courtroom. He is so annoying!
Oh snap!
Yes! More PJ smack down on West! He’ll pass, and there’s another peremptory for the defense,
Haha, another E-81 here. Love smart, informed citizens.
Uh oh! **SNAP**
I object your honor! Badgering the witness.
PJ: That’s what we’re here to decide, isn’t it?
He’s going toe to toe with West. Good for him!
Jesus, asked and answered!
LOL “That’s what we are here to decide, isn’t it?”
JN “We have heard that three times already.”
W: “He is not going to answer that question?”
JN: “He has already stated that three or four times already.”
CRIMINY!!!!
West keeps trying to sneak in “do you think GZ is innocent” ?
and possibility of self defense
West is such a tool!
Nope, he’s the defence’s secret weapon!
West is an I D I O T
Okay, Rach, you can start howling again. Why would a defense atty intentionally piss off a pj. It seems like he’s doing this again, like he’s done previously. Not very nice.
I like him…
Works 8 am -10 pm.
TV is on in the lobby.
Deals with hundreds of customers daily.
Was unemployed Feb-Oct of last year.
West didn’t see that coming. **BOOM**!
I guess he told his ass!
I think this guy would be good, but he may beg off for hardship…
might turn on how compliant his employer is.
Oh goodness gracious. Time for a nap.
Mr. Neon tie.
The defense always explains, like the person is a dolt.
I noticed that too. They actually come across as condescending to me.
Insurmountable hardship to his life to serve on jury: No.
Damned difficult: Yes.
Was just promoted to Assistant Manager at his job.
Says talking to customers is his job. TV monitors with cc on in lobby, and he can pay attention when he has amoment.
(He can’t turn and walk away from them and be rude, or ignore them or their statements— that must be a hard problem.
Oh oh– he said Mr. Z “almost in worse situation at the moment”…” sitting here waiting for …..” .
That doesn’t sound good, no matter what.
West– “do you think GZ could be innocent?” Says he reserves judgement.
west acts as if he has no clue as to what shift work could be (smdh)
He believes he may have looked up minor particulars about the case to find out what was going on but does not specifically recall anything in particular.
He’s busy. He works 50 hours per week.
Follow
Nostly hearing the self-defense. Works 50 hrs/wk, parents care support, dogs to look after. Works somewhere there are tv monitors on, so exposed but various stories. Personally tries to withhold judgement, news has spin, so prefs neutral setting.
Says has not ‘sat down’ to hear about it, heard from others, various views. ‘Not really’ hears seens court proc’dings.
Collateral info while actually watching tv? knows Sanford rally’s, prominent people came. Rights of USA citizens to do that he says.
First impressions about rally’s– rights free speech or other side? They were more in favor of Mr. Martin, didn’t sway him one way or another. No to Q about people coming from out of town, influence him either way, says ‘no’.
He may have pulled the case up on internet, but minor, doesn’t remember specifics. says it’s to be ‘informed’ vs one side or other. To find out, rally’s shut areas of city down, so ‘what’s going on?’, that impacted his life (shut down routes ).
Nothing too crazy? Is he calling me crazy? 😦 LOL
judge nelson chewing gum … judge judy goes apoplectic
lol. Good she does that, Sybrina and Tracy need that little aid too.
We get JJ over here too… 3 a day repeated morning and afternoon! she sure is a hard worker.
BTW I tried to find a free download of The Lady Killers for you… but sorry no go… it is a must see, different to the recent version and IMO the best even if you can only see the b&w “couloured” version of the original… grrrr I hate it when they colour old films!
will do my best to locate, you piqued my interest!
Doesn’t trust the media to broadcast the truth. The case has not been a focus point in his life. He hears and sees bits and pieces of the case all around him.
Knows about the rallies and Reverend Al Sharpton’s presence.
The rallies did not bother him.
Yesterday I noticed questions about whether a pj watched MSNBC, and every time I heard that I heard another little voice… Al Sharpton. know what I mean?
Has he become a litmus test.
I notice that WildaboutTrial.com lists FL vs. Zimmerman as the “Trayvon Martin Case.” No mention of Zimmerman.
This male works in a restaurant. The news and CNN is on in the background.
zim sr. releases ebook on the zimmerman trial (??) for $3.99 — considering we’re at day 5 of jury selection, price too high for content.
Even if it were free, price too high.
yes ma’am!
WTF, is this book available now? Or are these pre-sales? Weird. Weird family, weird case, weird world.
available now, go figure
How long until BDLR enters the ebook as evidence for the prosecution, as he has with every ham-fisted PR effort by “the family that launders money together, behaves funny together?” Ten nine eight seven….
right on, willis! 🙂
Fauxy, You are kidding, right?? Sr. released an ebook? Will that family ever stop begging for money? Grifters, all.
yup, on the news this AM. yuck, yuck, yuck.
Yes, I think this woman probably would be a good prosecution juror.
O’Mara will probably have to use a peremptory challenge to get rid of her because she’s too smart to buy his theory of the case.
I agree, O’mara doesn’t seem to like her at all.
Doesn’t he have to have a good reason?
If she’s not a member of a minority, he can use one of his “peremptory” challenges to knock her off the jury. It’s how the process works. Each side gets a number of times to assert, “no, not that one” without having to give a reason.
Read the prof’s blog posts from the week to get a bigger picture of the process.
Willis, she is black and I thought I read they must have valid reason before they can do that in this instance.
@willisnewton
Faux posted Stutzman tweets she was a 30 year old black female… does that mean no pre empt then?
I could be wrong but Freddy stated that Omara has to give a valid reason to the judge to preemptory her, because they can not exclude someone for being black, and that has to be found out
But since she is Black, I see one of those challenges to a peremptory challenge coming. Should be interesting…
As she stated she had formed no opinion, they have to have a damn good reason. Good.
They don’t have to give a reason for a peremptory.
I looked it up, and it says its called a “Batson” if Omara tries to exclude based on race utilizing preemptory or whatever its called
hey whonoze – i was encouraged by the written statement from the martin family that seemingly made a distinction between the “following down a street” and the “pursued” (on foot) aspects of the case. Did you catch that little bit, and what do you think it might mean?
I dunno willis. I saw your post on the Diaspora of course. I’m not sure that “followed down a street” means ‘in a vehicle.’ It has occurred to me, though, that while the State may have no interest in the clubhouse videos, the Martin’s lawyers may be aware of them. Natalie Jackson said the other day that contrary to the idea of Ben Crump working closely with the prosecution, the State has kept it’s distance from the family’s attorneys, and they find out what the prosecution is doing only when they hear it in the news…
I’m guessing the communication with the prosecution is a one-way pipeline. The Martin family legal team has no doubt passed on many many things to the prosecution, who as a matter of policy would not risk disclosure of trial strategy to anyone, including the Martin family and their legal team. It’s only wise to prevent the possibility of any leaks. There’s an old saying about how two can keep a secret as long as one of them is dead.
But we’ll see soon enough. I took the news as a positive sign that yeah, like you said, at least the Martin family team has paid attention to the idea that the following was one thing and the pursuit was another. They made a distcintion between the two in the WRITTEN statement that was drafted and handed out to the press but glossed over the difference when they spoke the gist of the statement, both Crump and Tracey.
I’ve grown used to each and every juncture of this case to be this Rashomon / litmus test moment where one can read multiple things into every disclosure, and the urge to reach into the computer and bitch-slap one more critical qualifying adjective or a hundred more pixels from the margin of a photo out of the entity making the “disclosure.”
I have noticed that Bernie has not asked the following:
PJx: You heard that this case has caused racial tension, would you hold it against the state or the defense if you found out that the state has bought no charges related to race against Mr. Zimmerman?
this could steal some of O’Mara’s “thunder”
I’m not sure BDLR wants to go there. Like Serino was quoted as having said to a (black) resident – this is a case where you have to read between the lines.
The state contends simply that GZ “profiled” TM and they don’t want to have to prove it was racial profiling, just that it was criminal profiling. The reasons why GZ felt TM was a criminal are not important, but if a juror reached his own private conclusion that the profiling had to do with the race of the individual who was deemed a “suspect” then that benefits the state’s case without them having to say so explicitly.
I feel that it can still be implied at trial while being disavowed- for the sake of partially neutering the defense’s race revenge casuistry- during jury selection.
Damn. Wish she hadn’t put a pic of summons on Facebook. At least she didn’t post comments like the guy who got busted.
Ok she was not aware that summons was for this case.
Yes, but she didn’t hide it, and seems she didn’t do it related to this case at all, just that she got another summons for jd. They will have the interns check 😉
You can bet they will check to see if she said anything.
Q: How can you tell when the defense (or the defendant, or one of his family members) is lying?
A: Their lips are moving.
She has not formed an opinion about who may have been responsible.
Phillips said it was a murder and GZ was racially profiling and in the wrong for approaching TM..
I like this PJ, I don’t think the defense does though.
I agree.
O’Mara’s focus reveals that he does not have a defense for Zimmerman
His theory of defense is 2 fold
1. Trayvon has a murky past so it is possible that he attacked Zimmerman
2. Zimmerman should have never been arrested, so get revenge on those black people that got him arrested by setting him free.
You also forgot number 3
3) Claim the conspiracy of the jewish liberal media teaming with blacks to railroad a decent american
I generalized a bit and wanted to imply that and the Crump angle into #2, but totally!
Yes, and part 2 is the delusional Benjamin-Crump-driven conspiracy to frame an innocent man and shake down insurance companies for money.
She’s aware of racial tension that resulted from the shooting.
She does not like to get involved in current events. She avoids them.
PJ G29, I like her so far. She honestly sounds like she truly has not settled on guilt or innocence.
GZ does look more serious today. He looks more like the defendant than a member of the team. Nightmares last night, or did someone tell him to look more contrite or something?
She gets her news from Yahoo. She follows sports and frivolous stuff.
ugg, gets her news from yahoo
Do we have a demographic ID on this PJ? Age? Race? Wardrobe?
young black woman according to stutzman
Phillips was biased in favor of Martin.
good morning everyone, just tuned in.
Good morning.
thank you Professor
i see fogen has on a wedding band today and right side of face swollen under right eye looks like a bug bite. ouch!
She does not follow the news.
She is a black female in her 30s.
Her friends Facebook comments were favorable to Martin.
Radio comments were both sides.
She has no doubt she can be objective.
Moved it to the kitchen. We have wi-fi, so easy. Why haven’t I done this before? (Don’t answer.)
But, now I can get all kinds of things done at the same time.
I feel so enpowered.
Does this mean encores to the tasty deviled eggs?
Oh, let’s move on to something else.
Cheese and crackers, and some fruit. K?
(Actually, watching tubby all the time, maybe we should just stick to fruit.)
describes herself as ‘so uninformed’.
Sounds promisingly neutral this one.
Saw a photograph of the defendant’s face that showed some bruising. Assumes there was an altercation.
Wonderful Bernie. Have you kept up with the case, the murder, arrest. Ha!
Rascal slipped that one in.
LOL!
G29 got her information fro Phillips file on talk radio right after it happened. Hasn’t kept up.
Wiki’d Phillips Phile: Jim takes serious interest in politics and will actively berate his listeners if the opportunity arises, though many topics are discussed on the program most of which are meant strictly for entertainment. He has used his local celebrity in the past to have various subjects investigated by the local media. Unlike most talk radio show hosts who discuss politics, Philips leans decidedly to the left.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Philips_Phile
Thank you for this.
g29
19 potential jurors who have not been questioned are being sent home until 9am Monday.
Any idea of how they numbered the jurors ? Really strange with so many letters.
The I’s have it!
If she sends I95 home for the weekend there’s going to be traffic problems in Florida.
Har har har
FYI … as we fill in time: Professor linked to Herald this morning where a dual byline includes Audra D.S. Burch. Be aware as you evaluate Herald coverage (as opposed to Stutzman and the OS) , that Burch is a seasoned black female reporter on board at the Herald for many years. She is not a token picked up for this trial.
I actually have a set of juggling balls.
Three of them.
But I guess that would make five if I was jumping up and down.
– whonoze the clown
Damn I just got dressed and have to change already. Coffee does not look good on white.
Get over here and wipe off my monitor! LOL
and then get over here and do my laundry. There is more than the outfit you messed up. 😉
in an elevator
Hahahahaha! You’re on a roll!
My son had his nose broke. Had to have surgery on Christmas Eve to set it. Fogen’s nose looks really good for one that did not get set. I mean 20 to 30 punches and then having hand push it down until you are seconds away from passing out and diapers! Must just have one of those kind of noses that can take a beating and remain straight….
Yeah, his whole face even. Truly remarkable. I mean 20-40 times I heard – but only a little scratch. Amazing.
Actually, GZ’s schnoz is STILL all bent up like you see it in the Wagner photo. It’s just been photoshopped back to ‘normal’ in all the other photos and videos in a vast conspiracy between the Angela Corey’s minions and the MSM!
ahhh. that explains it.
When the PJs showed up for voire dire
We thought trying the case might be near
But then Don West stood
And did what he would
And then even the face o the clock shed a tear.
Nice. I am beginning to think Fogen is looking at the Great Seal as if it’s a pizza.
Hahahahahahahaha!! Good one!
Yamiche Alcindor @Yamiche 55s
E81, woman who said #TrayvonMartin was heading down “wrong path” & Zimmerman was “protecting his neighborhood” did not make it to 2nd round
She also said Z confronted Trayvon but then switched it around. Moron, can’t keep her stories straight either.
dummie
I’m new to this nested comments format. So, the thing to do is just scroll up and down to see new ones?
(And, geez, my butt’s already sore and nothing’s happened yet.
Yep, we are all over the place. I bought speakers for laptop so my behind would not look like pancake.
I’m thinking of moving my laptop to the kitchen so I can get a few things done in there too. Got’s to multi-task these days. And, thanks for the idea. Maybe I’ll make pancakes.
If you have a WordPress site on any subject, new comments automatically show in the dashboard, so you don;t even have to scroll!
PS Don West looks like forty miles of bad road!
There should be 25 people in that group. They are the PJs who have been passed for cause on the pretrial publicity and hardship issues.
They have been excused until Tuesday morning.
Looks like Judge Nelson is planning to to move on to group voir dire on other subjects on Tuesday.
Potentially the plan is to get the rest today, Monday and Tuesday if need be? Could the trial start by end of next week you think or the week after?
E6 is in, so we’ll see what develops.
(I know most of you won’t get that joke…. E6 is the chemical mixture used to process Ektachrome film.)
Some of us only remember using E4
For many years, and they left it up intentionally, on the side of the building next to Birns And Sawyer, the old motion picture camerman’s specialty store in Hollywood there was a HUGE graffiti that read, “no matter how true the artist’s vision, it will last only as long as Ektachrome.”
This was a lament for the days of three strip technicolor, an insanely laborious process but one that kept a separate record of each color as a silver-laden B+W film.
Now we will be lucky if Kodak itself survives. What a world.
Slide film, I had forgotten about that, I used to be a lab manager
Judge Nelson is sending 23 questioned prospective jurors home until Tuesday. Instructing them not to do any research or talk about the case.
B35m B29, B12, B76, B51, B7, B37, B86, B55, E5, E40, E54, E73, M75, B61, B72, E22, E13, E28, K80, K95, K67, G13
Outstanding. It’s up to the professor, of course, but I’d say You’re hired! (Have a deviled egg.)
I love deviled eggs…along with a nice cold glass of Dr Pepper. 🙂
OMG! Just tuning today, hello and welcome!
Good morning.
Was the woman with the attitude, educated in the truth ex-cop’s wife with anxiety, listed this morning in the group?
Nope. Poor racist got the boot.
Aww dang, tossing off ‘educated in the truth’, people. Poor fogen.
I think she’s E81, she didn’t make it. Thank God!
Thanks, she would be the one re the comment made as leaving the courtroom, ‘that was fun’.
THANK GOODNESS!
She can go home and spend more time getting miseducated in lies… I only wish I could be a fly on the wall when she learns the REAL TRUTH and hears the REAL EVIDENCE!
B86 (the firts one to think that bad parenting is responsible for Trayvon’s death) is still in there. There is another one that spoke of “riots” and took a dig at Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. Keep and eye on both. They need to go as well.
Good morning you beautiful people!
Good morning Sunshine!
good morning!
looks like ‘he’s innocent’ ms bigot *E?* 81 has not made it. yippee!
Praise the Lord!
damn, now i wish i had written all those down to compare notes. deviled eggs with a side of OCD???
Half way thru I was hoping you took notes because I sure as heck did not. We need to post ad for Secretary. Do we have the budget?
got it, i’m resourceful — does that count 🙂
B29, B35, B51, E6, E40, E54, E73, M75, B61, B72, E22, E13, E28, K80, K90?, P67, G14
I think that’s K95.
As long as you did not cheat off someone else. At this point it does not matter. You may need to put it in safe place until Tuesday.
faux mccoy~ I don’t know… you charge extra for capitalization…
yes ma’am, i do. it’s an extra keystroke 🙂
faux mccoy~ I sent you a personal email. It’s from an “alphamonster”. Please don’t delete it. 🙂
________________________________
righty-0!
Paraphrased
yup, that’s the one. delighted i’ll never have to hear another word from her bigoted lips.
Feels like I’m at a Bingo Game. Alas…
I feel like a TV newscaster filling up silence. I need a guest, maybe a juggler in a clown suit to explain how to juggle 5 balls.
can’t juggle, but if you’re in the market for a professional quality smart ass, i’m yer girl 🙂
No doubt. 😉
How about a joke.
How do you catch a unique rabbit.
Unique up on him.
Haha!
Hear about a prank that made me laugh till I cried.
You go to Wal Mart and try something on in dressing room. In a loud voice you yell out, hey there is no more toilet paper in here. I find that very amusing.
Sequestration means the PJs gotta pack their pjs. Zimmerman’s already in a jammie!
I got a million of ’em. You’re a great audience. I’ll be here the rest of the week.
And next week too, RIGHT??
We be jammin’
Thats a joke, I say thats a joke son.
Foghorn Leghorn
I know you’re out there. I hear ya breathin’.
For wrap ups of the questioning of each pj:
http://legalinsurrection.com/?s=zimmerman+jury+selection&image.x=-1411&image.y=-206
THANK YOU!!!!
Heads up from Shari: This site has pro-Z propaganda. The summaries of who the pjs are and what they said are free of this slant.
Thanks! wouldn’t want to think any pro-z junk slipped in here by accident.
I have a question
Now we all know about Omara’s smear campaign
Is that considered opening the door?
I just feel it is unfair that he trashed a dead kid, who was begging and pleading for his life before being murdered, in an effort to smear the victim and get donations and try the case in the court of the public opinion
These are the numbers I jotted down. Did I miss anyone or make a mistake?
B35,B29,B12,B76,B51,B7,B37, B86,B55, E6, E40, E54, E73 M75 B71,B62 E13, E28 K80 K95 G67 B14
I had 22 numbers. I think I missed one.
To be honest I did not watch
I am stepping away for a few. Can’t watch him anymore. Keep thinking PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA, cookie monster…..
GZ has a weight problem. He’s gained more than a 100 pounds since he was arrested. He’s 5’7″ and weighs 300+ pounds.
He weighed 207 when he shot and killed Trayvon Martin.
And he couldn’t defend himself against a kid that was 50lbs lighter than him. Smdh, such a liar !
He should get his money back he was train as a boxer and
kick boxer
He has a “weight problem” that may be a side effect of his prescription drug diet. He may also have STOPPED taking other substances he can no longer gain access to. We just don’t know but the difference is more than slight from what he used to put into his body and what he must be putting into it now.
He’s also, IIRC not supposed to consume alcohol as a condition of his bond? Am I right on that? Can’t recall.
Don’t mean to mean, but I strongly believe he used illegal drugs and perhaps wasbordering on alcoholism, both in which mixed with prescription drugs spells disaster, or as Taaffe says, “The Perfect Storm”. His AA friend, Joe Oliver, accidentally let it (drinking of alcohol) slip out during an interview with I think, Charles Blow.
We know Taaffe has a substance abuse problem, and I believe the AA male the confessed murderer stated repeatedly went to Taaffe’s door several times knocking, I believe this person was either coming to drop off drugs to Taaffe or pick up payment.
Seems like everybody in the family had problems holding down job in contrast to Trayvon’s family who were gainfully employed or in school.
Multiple dysfunctions surrounding Z, but it seems that I recall some friend of his saying that he wasn’t a drinker. Not unlikely for the child of an alcoholic parent to become a teetotaler.
Not to snark too much on his weight, but to does say something about his personality or personal discipline. Some folks use jail time to work out. You know, those one-handed push ups.
I have a homeless friend OR HAD ONE! That just reminds me on Fogen. I don’t think he can kill someone, but then again. I think the reason Fogen has been gaining weight is because he was eating REAL FOOD FOR ONCE. If he is as broke as they claim then, he couldn’t each as much like he does now. This friend lives off, food stamps, his brother in law bringing him food, and what ever money he scoops up to eat. He will not work or better himself. His believe is that he is struggling and deserves the help and handouts.Even though he has been homeless 5 years. Even down to his eye rolls he reminds me of Fogen, it really is a mental thing. That is what I gather from it all. I don’t think Fogen is stress, cause in my friends eyes and mind he is doing all he can to better himself. Those looking in can see that is not the case. But if you believe something hard enough, you will live that experience.
I don’t wear suits. But is Fogen suit extra tight or something, cause his upper arms look like they are about to bust at the seems. Is the suit to small.
It is a size SMEDIUM…you know a super small medium!
No bueno.
He’s wearing his magic underwear, I mean kevlar vest under the suit so it probably won’t sit right on him ever. Not that all the king’s tailors can do much for someone as obese as he has become. I’m guessing he is so full of pills that he rattles, and that he no longer has access to any illegal substances that he may have been on at the time of the killing, such as steroids from the fight club, or methamphetamine, etc.
We may never know all the substances he was on that night but it wouldn’t disturb me to hear a little of his background with substances legal and otherwise, in open court.
I noticed that too, but the gray one he wore on Tuesday, looked as though it was made from the left over fabric from his mother’s or grandmother’s dress.
OR he was wearing one of She lie’s jackets.
I’m curious why the JN wants to do the Frye hearing continuation at 5 pm for a witness from Europe. I think she has the time difference backwards. She said an 8 hour difference. 5pm here is 1am in Europe. If the witness is in CA, the time would be 2 pm. I wasn’t listening that closely. Where is the witness?
Alls I know is that he ain’t in heaven.
It is currently 3 pm London UK, 10 am Florida, and 7 am on the west coast.
Depends on which European country. 5pm in Florida would be 11pm in Central Europe. But then still too late for the expert to be testifying. O’Mara better make sure the hearing is concluded before 1st July 2013.
Yesterday GZ looked like he had an abscessed tooth on that right side. I haven’t had a good look yet today, but this would be a really awful time for that.
Wouldn’t it thought … oh the pain, the discomfort 🙂
OH the excuse for a continuance!
I hate yellow ties.
Yesterday, he wore a solid orange tie and I hate orange ties even more than I hate yellow ties.
Something tells me that West and I would not get along.
Snort.
Even Mongo’s tie was not ‘solid’ orange.
“Something tells me that West and I would not get along.”
Something tells me he doesn’t really get along with anyone. For the 25th time Donnie…no snacks before dinner.
Okay, if I have just 6 cookies then……
For the 26th time, I said denied…..
There is something very irritating about him….maybe it has something to do with his “…we caught you lying…” outburst to Bernie, when in fact it’s DW & Co. lying.
My husband will not wear yellow or brown ties.
same here
I do like muted in color but sheened golden ties especially with patterns
Man I’m with you! And I’m a tie connoisseur! Jerry Garcia are the best. The silk waterprints sold by Library of Congress gift shop are a close second.
Fogen looks like he is day dreaming about lunch.
I hope BDLR eats Fogens for lunch, and he ain’t just dreaming.
Love it! I second that.
Fogen looks upset today. And is it me, he looks to be losing weight.
Probably since he has been stuck in court for at least 8 hours, his body is being starved of the additional 3,000 calories.
At least he’s seemingly stopped gaining. Larger suits may be part of slimmer look. Or we’ve gotten used to seeing him ultra-fat. Maybe spending hours a day in court without stuffing his face is helping. Lump on face not as pronounced today.
His membership app. to the fight gym said he weighed 255 when he joined in 2010 so he has been this big before and can’t blame it on the stress of trial or guilt over what he did. He is, was and always will be a pig. Sorry if that is harsh but I look at him and hear sooooweeeee. Lol
😦
His bouncing up and down so extremely weight-wise is likely a familiar pattern for him. Perhaps related to meds.
Juries are not so much chosen as they are whatever remains after both sides have eliminated the people they do not want.
Considering Seminole County is supposedly such a ground zero for white rednecks, the parade of PJs thus far has been surprisingly (to me) cosmopolitan thus far … a self-described islander … a Mexican-born naturalized citizen, several AA candidates .. . doesn’t bode well for Fogen. (Am still pulling for deft kid in tanktop with sunglasses to serve as an alternate.)
I have to find a video of that.
Well it is right next to altamonte then orlando, lake vista,then kissismme, each exit for those cites are very close. Everybody who works in the orlando part, lives in the areas like SANDFORD, or as the white affluent part calls it LAKE MARY!!! It literally is an across the TRACKS type place. Where Trayvon lost his life, was in lake mary and is a very nice area. They call it sanford cause he is African American, when in fact it’s more like Lake Mary. Where Fogen supposely passed out fliers is Sanford, where he shot Trayvon is Lake Mary.
evokid7…..you have to look at a city map, The Retreat at Twin Lakes is not in Lake Mary. It is very close to the boundary but it is not within the city limits. That is why it is called Sanford, not because he was AA. He was killed within the city limits of Sanford not Lake Mary.
https://maps.google.com/maps?oe=UTF-8&q=Lake+Mary,+fl&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x88e76d5129fed6b1:0x1a6cd960f325cfcb,Lake+Mary,+FL&gl=us&ei=YEa7UZqkOZKy9gTzzoGgCA&ved=0CJUBELYD
The dotted lines shows the city limits. Go to the northern line and east of 417 along rhinehart rd, Oregon is next and there you’ll find RTL just a short distance from that intersection.
@Trained Observer
Agreed. If what I read last March has any truth to it, allegedly the KKK were the ones that made an offer to the New Black Panthers to make the announcement about hauling the confessed murderer in for an arrest. Although the NBP said they would pay $10k, it was the KKK supplying the actually reward money.
Wow!
Where did you read that?
According to HLN last night, all of the Hispanic PJ’s were not inclined to excuse murder due to self-defense. Killing is killing.
@lurker
I think it was in the OS (The Orlando Sentinel) around late March? Try googling New Black Panthers.
You may have as many as you want, Fred.
That’s my contribution for today.
Virtual ones don’t taste as good as real ones 😦 but at the rate I can put them away, at least they have no calories either.
For those who are joining us for the first time, the dude sitting next to George is the jury selection expert they hired to help them pick the jury.
What’s his name? Any background on him?
i don’t know about you guys but i hate that the jury will be sequestered. everytime i see a jury sequestered they come back with a NOT guilty! Especially in these long trials. but i don’t know about this case, i just think it seems to favor the defense..
Don’t worry, that’s what I always live by. God is a good God and he will have justice in this life or the next. Plus I believe that most think the screams on that tape is what this case hinge on but I believe that it will be the simple fact that Trayvon ran from him that will bring back a guilty verdict.
@Tee
Amen! Our God is an AWESOME God! He reigns!
I highly doubt this case will take 2-4 weeks of sequestration. The defense has NOTHING. The prosecution can destroy anything the defense brings. Maybe @ 2 weeks at the max. Find the murderer guilty and whisk him away.
@cielo–having nothing hasn’t stopped the defense from using up plenty of time LOL!
Dayam! That was a good deviled egg. How ’bout another?
I won’t be able to watch 😦 please report for me. I’m going to download an app and try to watch some. Please tell me your impressions of the PJ’s: stealth, bias, descriptive characteristics.
Thank you. Have a great day guys.
Can’t believe we’re almost to the trial. Sad that it took so much to get that, a trial where the evidence can be heard.
Shellie does not look quite as well put together this morning.
Looks like she hauled out the curling iron … but lacked skill.
Might be why she’s not a working cosmetologist.
Back in Oklahoma, as a boy my salty old Comanche horse wrangler friends used to say about a less-then-supermodel gal, “She looks like she’s been chewed up by a coyote and shat off a cliff, then pulled through a knothole sideways.”
Sorry, couldn’t help myself. Just an old cowboy joke. Her appearance is her own business.
But courtroom symbolism and the whole Kabuki theater of appearances seems to be part of the game. I’m still weirded out that GZ never seems to turn around to speak to her, or even give her eye contact. Then there is that lump on the side of GZ’s cheek that someone else noted.
Those who are watching closely, please observe if GZ and Shellie have adjusted their behavior today. I am suspect about the hand-holdoing display yesterday that was “reported” by Rene Stutzman. I trust almost nothing this woman gets into print or tweets. She seems to curry favor with the defense way too often to be considered a credible reporter.
It struck me at the beginning of the jury selection that the strategy was for her to appear to support her husband, but for him to shun the perjurer lest anyone make that association. When they walked out on day one, the bodyguard stayed between them and they made ZERO eye contact to the point that it was awkward. Hence my suspicions.
Yesterday she entered the courtroom late, apparently sans bodyguard.
Can’t imagine what is going on at this sidebar unless they are discussing how many people need to be passed for cause before they move to questioning the group on other subjects.
I think they need more than 40. I recommend 50.
good morning!
what is he doing? Writing 1 sentence on each page? Signing his name? Autographs?
Hahahaha
Working on his cursive?
I read long ago, note taking by defendants is nothing more than a tactical bluff.
It might just be a way to stave off boredom. I doubt gz has taken anything for his ADHD since his arrest. Certainly anti-dpressants and anti-anxiety, but nothing for the ADHD jitters and nerves.
Oh, I’m sure it will be more than 1 sentence if it’s anything like the diatribe he wrote to the NAACP last April telling “them” to get “their dogs” off. Yep, actually called AA’s dogs.
He used to be a magistrate. He’s accustomed to writing a pack of lies.
George sure is taking a lot of notes. Does he not trust his crew or is he getting a head start on His book? (Like his dad’s.)
Gawd incredible isn’t it. And he thanked the outhouse. ughhhh
Oh, is Pops Z knocking out an Oster-style book?
Someone left a link earlier.
You could google it, but, yuck.. Just knowing it’s out there is enough.
Instead of a potboiler, it’ll likely be a whiner.
Yes, it’s on Amazon. Premature, I think, just as Osterman’s book was. The free sample you can read on Amazon is pretty shallow and self-serving. You’ve heard most of it from Jr and from various news reports.
Guess they’re finally admitting their son’s story isn’t worth the paper it could have been printed on because it only comes in the $3.99 free wireless delivery Kindle Edition.
J4TM
35_2Life4GZ
GZ seems a paranoid I don’t believe he truly trust anyone.
4 or 5 more hours for Fry Hearing? Seems like the defense is shocked the Judge wants this to move along.
Defense only has one more witness. Don’t know why he thinks it’s going to take that long.
Because everything he does takes a long time.
In all fairness, with the witnesses already present during hearings, the defense over did everything and West often has to be told 10 to 20 times “No” before he understands
Omara was told repeatedly to ask w8 himself for the information he seeked and depose her, and he refused to do so for like 5 months or so
It’s been over a year and Omara claims he has not had enough time
They sound like massive procrastinators
Because perhaps West has to say a whole sentence!
Indeed. Judge Nelson may have to cold cock West today. I can see it coming.
West has trouble processing that Frye will continue next week depending on availability of defense expert witness … maybe after 5 o’clock. jN insists on determining availability before sitting day or time. This conceptual approach seemingly tough for West to grasp.
I’m concerned about West. His brain isn’t firing right. Don’t know if this is a new development because I do not know him well enough. Nevertheless, his cluelessness is concerning and does not bode well for this trial.
Yes, there’s something notable and odd going on here, and I don’t mean that in a snarky way. He has an expression of puzzlement on basic things. Perhaps can be blamed on pressure of trial? Internal dispute on tactics with either MOM or Fogen?
one of the early signs of dementia is mod swings
Remember West was a public defender. State of Florida public defender, I believe. Probably never had a really tough case before because he would not really have to DEFEND very much. Usually they force their clients into plea bargains and his job was not taxing. That’s my guess. Only a guess of course.
Like the Kal-Tec, OK he’s a weapon but low quality.
As Tzar said, could definitely be age-related. I’ve seen this in my own family and in danger of this myself.
Professor, could fogen appeal if West was all of a sudden be diagnosed with some brain problems?
Judge Nelson wants to complete the Frye hearing sometime next week, Defense will check on the availability of their remaining witness for some afternoon next week and advise the court.
Do you have any idea if any of Omara’s “limine” motions got granted or not?
Like the “word ban”
He tried to bring them up on Saturday during a lull and Nelson shot him down. So I suspect there has not yet been a ruling on them.
BDLR stipulated to it BUT only with regard to voir dire. Judge Nelson did not have to rule on it.
okay so I am guessing that’s a resounding “No”?
Ive noticed the defense inquiries as to whether a pj has heard or watched the frye hearing….does the fact that the frye hearing hasnt been completed give the defense a possible appeal option? Can the defense say we would have dismissed all jurors who heard or saw the hearing if we would have know the judge would have ruled this way?
The defense is responsible for the fact that the frye hearing has not been concluded (defense’s expert did not show up on the date of the hearing and O’Mara/West can’t even get a hold of him so that the judge can fix a new date).
The defense cannot dismiss anyone for just watching any or all of the public hearings.
Good morning, everyone!
mornin
“Peremptory challenges are like bullets. A lawyer is helpless when he or she runs out of peremptory challenges during jury selection.” — Frederick Leatherman
Am betting BDLR is more skilled at using his than MOM and West will be at deploying theirs.
Which is why MOM and West usewd their few pennies to pay an expensive jury consultant.
Who can’t even keep from chewing gum in court.
Hey did Omara’s “word ban” get granted?
Up to DATE, you knew that.
Oh, and I brought deviled eggs to share this morning.
Excellent! Nothing like a little protein with the coffee. Good morning, all.
Don’t you mean eggcelent? LOL
OOooh my favorite!!!
yummmmmm
Good morning everyone! Here’s hoping that the PJ’s will check their ignorance at the door.
Better to let them admit to it–however difficult it is to hear. Some folks don’t belong on a jury.
Good point!
Thank you for getting us up to day, Fred.
I think I’m fortified enough to follow this today.
And, blessings for posting the video in the previous thread.
Good morning! I actually get to watch this for a little while this morning.
Good morning! I hope today for the sake of the Fulton/Martin family that PJ remember that a family lost a child and their snide remarks are not needed. No need to kick them around or this family more. jmo
No need to kick them around or hurt this family anymore. I hate when I get ahead of myself.
@disappointed
Good afternoon. Just seeing your comments. I agree, and share your concerns.
However, I totally agree with Searching Minds. As uncomfortable as is for us, the Fulton/Martin to hear, these people need to be exposed.
Interestingly, I have noticed that the pj’s espousing the mean spirited responses during questioning, also emphatically state they do not or for various reasons, cannot serve on the jury.
It’s a “ying yang” sort of thing, the terrible remarks they’re hearing now will only serve to make the testimony at trial so much sweeter.
I notice how gz “swallows hard” when rational people take the stand, he becomes fearful.
I can’t seem to understand how he can ever smile anymore, considering he must know that his story is going to sink him in the end. All he’s doing now is, taking small comfort in the jurors apparent confusion.
I think those snide remarks and the digs at Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are very important to hear. Call it necessary evil. They help in identify- and getting rid of the bad apples (like B81, etc.). Remember: ‘out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks’.
Yes, the time to hear it is now.
for the sake of justice I hope they are snide filled and expressive as possible. They can’t hurt any more than Zimmerman has.
They can’t hurt any Sybrina and Tracy more than Zimmerman has.
They can’t hurt Sybrina and Tracy any more than Zimmerman has.
ALPHA
Hail to the alpha!
Running for the rear gate…
I’m here now.
Bernie, (holding out cheek) time for my daily smooch. 🙂
Dadgumit, Xena!
Now I’m beginning to notice how his eyes shine and his cheeks take on a rosy blush when he’s amused …
@parrot. 🙂