Welcome to Day 5 of Jury Selection in Zimmerman Case

Friday, June 14, 2013

Good morning:

According to the Miami Herald, the pool of PJs passed for cause on the issues of pretrial publicity and hardship to serve has reached 25. The lawyers have questioned 34 PJs.

Two important announcements yesterday:

(1) The jury will be sequestered during the trial, which is expected to last 2-4 weeks.

(2) The lawyers will continue to question the PJs one at a time out of the presence of the others regarding pretrial publicity and hardship to serve until a pool of 40 PJs has been passed for cause.

When that target has been reached, the lawyers will question the jurors in the presence of each other on other subjects, such as whether anyone knows any of the witnesses who will be testifying in the case, whether anyone has been a victim of a violent crime or knows someone who has been, and whether anyone works in law enforcement or knows someone who does.

The court needs to end up with a pool of 30 PJs passed for cause before the lawyers begin to exercise their peremptory challenges.

Each side has a total of 10 peremptory challenges they can exercise (6 for jurors and 1 each for 4 alternates). If both sides were to exercise all of their peremptory challenges, 20 PJs would be eliminated leaving a jury of 6 with 4 alternates.

Recall that the lawyers do not have to give a reason to support a peremptory challenge unless they challenge a person who is a member of a racial minority. The SCOTUS prohibited the use of peremptory challenges to exclude blacks from juries in Batson v. Kentucky, 476 U.S. 79 (1986).

You can reasonably anticipate that the State will object, if the defense uses a peremptory challenge to exclude a black PJ from the jury. If that happens, the defense will have to provide a credible reason other than race to survive the objection.

Note the occasional battles that break out when one side or the other wants to get rid of a PJ they do not like with a challenge for cause, but they cannot quite lay an adequate foundation that the PJ cannot be fair and impartial. The other side will counter that effort by doing everything possible to rehabilitate the PJ in hopes of forcing the opponent to use a peremptory challenge to get rid of the juror.

Peremptory challenges are like bullets. A lawyer is helpless when he or she runs out of peremptory challenges during jury selection.

Here’s the link to the livestream coverage.

Court resumes at 9 am EDT.


See you in court.


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1,366 Responses to Welcome to Day 5 of Jury Selection in Zimmerman Case

  1. colin black says:

    Morbid obeasty creepy crackerassedniggarapist

  2. colin black says:

    Our client was ever so compliant after he shot an murdered a CHILD for non compliance with neighbourhood regulation an statues according to his rules.

    Walking whilst Blahck in any an all weather conditions is illegal.
    There is no curfew or time of day no cut of point 24 …7

    Being a Child an walking whilst BLAHCK same as above but twice as illegall

    Any person whilst being Blahck not compliant with his Authauritie will face summery instan execution.

    A Glasgow test.

    Id like to give him a GLAASGOW KISS.


  3. colin black says:

    ffff Stop tortureing this wee lass

    As if your client caused her enough HURT for a lifetime day 13 includeing voire dire were do ch 9 get day 13 from of zimmspin trial if so not luckyday for foggagge.!

  4. colin black says:

    bring up her face book account postings if u dare skellator
    An State will bring in fooggaes Facebook tugboat dag niggity.

  5. colin black says:

    No shes not your client he didn’t feel like this dude was packin heat an I better go an beat him to death with ny pristine fists into his pristine stupid face

    What hideous creature is this skellator.

    confront doesn’t mean fight.

    only assaulting was from you client first TRAYVON

    An the the entire WORLDS Intellegence.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      West made another stupid. In trying to turn things around by saying that Trayvon pursued and attacked gz, he was claiming that, that might have been what happened outside Brandy Green’s house.

      Well gee… That would mean that gz was running to Trayvon’s home while Trayvon was pursuing him there. What was gz going to do once he got to Trayvon’s home? Signal to be allowed inside?

      Anyway West just put gz 262 feet south of the “T”, that’s going to be hard to fix. May he have eternal “winds”.

  6. colin black says:

    No shes not your client he didn’t feel like this dude was packin heat an I better go an beat him to death with ny pristine fists into his pristine stupid face

  7. colin black says:

    yes sir a think he did say the creepy rapist dude smelled of phartt so there coulda beenmo wind Sir

  8. colin black says:

    Told you couldn’t make this up my SPECIAL GAL points out

    West an M O M an FOGGAGGES entire story an defence

    from bed of an table office an Cat hq
    Of colin a black

  9. Big Willie says:

    JN seems a little irritated with both sides today.

  10. ic2fools says:

    cielo62, Maturity is a rough road for some.

    it can be hard, i don’t want to see youtube vids about elderly people get hurt, just was too much. or read about that stuff when choosing.

    appreciate your understanding.

    jus finished reading the daily kos article you posted. fogen referred to Trayvon as a suspect 18 times.

    did you see these, so well put together i have no ,doubt the State will present this damning evidence. factual that will not be objected or denied, and jury:convicting:

    God’s Plan v God Sent Part 1, Part 2 and Part 3 if you have time please watch them

    HA, bet hannity was subpoenaed. deposed and now will testify, even though he stated he would not report what he and fogen discussed. later former fogen defense uhrig stated hannity would not tell them what that conversation was about.

  11. esentrick says:

    Hi Professor and All!

    I really like to thank all of you for the comments and updates! I am trying to play catch-up, so your comments are most helpful. Also, If anyone would like to review any of the jurors, AxiomAmnesia on youtube lists each video by juror number.


  12. evokid7 says:

    [Comment removed as offensive]

    • ic2fools says:

      son thats’ a too bit much, we DO NOT wish or pray impending harm such as you wrote to befall those we oppose, not here:

      Just some place urban and populated, with people who don’t look like him, or think like him. And get his ASS beat “not killed” and please let some youth or anybody record and post it on youtube so I can laugh.

      please refrain from such type talk

      • cielo62 says:

        ic2fools~ More like in “Finnegan’s Wake” where the racist politician is turned into a black man so that he could experience it. Now THAT would be funny!


        • ic2fools says:

          no can’t agree with you on that one cielo62, comment is serious reality.

          iirc this is the second time a comment rude comment has been made, it wasn’t meant to be funny. even written as a joke that i couldn’t laugh or make light of it.

          • cielo62 says:

            ic2fools~ ‘sigh’ True, true. Not funny at all. But I see he’s been banned. Maturity is a rough road for some.


  13. evokid7 says:


    well i guess we KNOW WHAT HE was doing in hiding.
    what a dirty old man……. This BITCH done, wrote a book…..

    they just need to stop it.

    • evokid7 says:


      well i guess we KNOW WHAT HE was doing in hiding.
      what a dirty old man……. This BITCH done, wrote a book…..

      they just need to stop it.

      [We don’t need to advertise this man’s book]

      • Two sides to a story says:

        A waste of electronic space, self-serving and apparently from the portions I read above, Mr. Z Sr. just outed himself as a racist.

      • BillT says:

        that that person could be involved on any level in a legal system scares me????????

        there is not an honest bone in the entire fogen family apparently.

      • Malisha says:

        BillT, in Virginia, 90% of the legal system is no better than Fogenpop Senior, and at least 1% of it is even worse.

      • BillT says:

        grew up right next door to that state, got married in clintwood Va. in fact…….folks from Ky. feared being arrested just for driving through the area of pound down to norton Va.

      • towerflower says:

        I was tempted to buy this, like I did with Osterman’s, just to see what was said and look for inconsistencies. Even though Amazon is selling it for only $3.99, I still can’t bring myself to hit the buy button. I wouldn’t give 2 cents to that family.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Good you didn’t fall for the yoke, he’s hoping that a few thousand curiosity seekers would give him a small bundle. While they’d find they’re wasting their time and money, because he has nothing of substance to offer anyone at all.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Fogen Sr. just outed himself as the racist he truly is. Now we know for certain.

      • Malisha says:

        What, we had doubts before?
        Only doubt I had was whether he could write English — not a requirement for Magistrates in the Commonwealth of Virginia, actually — but NO DOUBT about his bigotry. “My son’s not a racist; if he hated Asians he would have killed one of THEM instead.”

      • towerflower says:

        I couldn’t believe he even named groups and people. He even called the funeral director that handled TM body a racist.

      • Jun says:

        LMAO Fogen Sr. admitted that the family judges people due to race

        He stated “If Asians were suspicious, Fogen would do the same to them”

    • Xena says:

      @evokid7. Thanks for the link. From the article;

      He goes on to claim that Holder’s decision to investigate whether Martin’s death constituted a federal civil rights violation led to the FBI to not have “adequate resources to investigate clearly identified potential terrorist” threat in Boston. “Tragically,” Zimmerman writes, “we have suffered the consequences of Mr. Holder’s politically motivated decisions.”

      Some words speak volumes. What Papa Zim is saying is that the FBI’s ongoing investigation has him upset and worried. I say GOOD! He no doubt knows that he is being tracked on the internet and the FBI has all of his mean-spirited and denigrating comments about Trayvon and Trayvon’s parents.

      • Malisha says:

        Pop Zimmerman had some part in the Wolfinger mess, you can bet on it. Whether the feds want to identify that or not is the only question in my mind. Corey might have worked a deal with the feds to leave Wolfinger and the SPD alone if she prosecuted Fogen properly — that’s a possible.

      • aussie says:

        Yeah sure. Like the Feds have a total of 7 people???

        I bet hate-crime investigation is a totally different branch and office than terror-suspect-checking. He’s being bigoted against the immigrant US citizen bombers, too — they were not clearly identified potential terrorism suspects, they’d been interviewed and cleared.

      • Jun says:

        Wait for it

        He’s gonna blame 911 on Trayvon next

        He’s playing the conspiracy angle to the fullest

      • towerflower says:

        aussie…..ding, ding! Exactly the FBI is made up of different investigators/specialties. They have separate investigators/departments for civil rights, terrorism, kidnappings, major fraud, etc. He wants to make it seem like the entire resources of the FBI were centered on one man. Never happened.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          No, no, no… The retired magistrate from Virginia knows that there are only 3 (count them three) FBI men in the nation, and all three of them were forced by the racists, screaming for a trial, to come down to Sanford and leave the entire nation unprotected! What a wonderful book, now we know the truth! Anyone wanting a copy of this revealing tomb can find one in the dumpster under the I-95 overpass.

    • Jun says:

      Okay, what a fucking loon

      Jesus, Lord Have Mercy

    • dianetrotter says:

      It’s great to see the many responses from white people about this idiot and his book. Look at the comments to the article. There are more here: http://thinkprogress.org/media/2013/06/14/2162501/george-zimmermans-father-says-the-true-racists-are-all-african-american/?mobile=nc

  14. lurker says:

    O’Mara’s presser. He claims that the dismissed (“anti-Zimmerman”) juror was attempting to get to the other jurors in the jury pool. Dunno–not quite what I had read. I understand he was p-o-ed that someone leaked his name. But, he was plainly suggesting a conspiracy of some sort.

    Interesting that after talking quite a bit about that particular dismissed juror, and the reasons for his dismissal, and how awful it would have been had he not been “caught,” O’Mara demured when asked about the reason for dismissing the woman who believed in Zimmerman’s innocence–citing the Judge’s preference.

  15. Two sides to a story says:

    Is it possible they’ll have a jury seated by mid-week next week? Seems to be moving quickly.

  16. Two sides to a story says:

    Good, reporter asking him about West exposing the lady JP’s workplace.

    • ay2z says:

      I missed the rest of that pj, did West expose even more of that workplace? Geeze, chalk one more up for him, if he did.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        It went by awfully fast. I have to watch it again. They zipped her out of the courtroom quickly. I would think he’d get in some trouble for it.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        OM also brushed the question off fast and changed topics. LOL.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @TS, he (West) hasn’t got into trouble for anything else he’s done and, the same goes for O’mara. they have both turned this case into a JOKE.

    • Xena says:

      @Two sides. West is an interrogator and likes to intimidate. In general, most people think that the more personal info someone like West has about them, the more vulnerable their safety and livelihood becomes. If he knows where you work, your occupation, your home address, what keeps him from disrupting your life?

      That intimidating, threatening nature is so engrained in West that he cannot put it aside when it’s not necessary.

      • ic2fools says:

        Swayin west, now i understand why omar barked at him: “what are you doing”

        that’s why that pjs’ examination ended so quickly.

        an west is the lawyer mr. cracker chose then supportered by blogging and emailing to have omar. replaced west ahahahahaaaa…..

        • cielo62 says:

          ic2fools~ WAIT! If he’s swaying, does that mean he’s on drugs or sumpin’? High at the bench and swaying!?


          • ic2fools says:


            yup he’s on sumpin’ alright, all highed up swaying at the bench. unhuh he actin like hes’ sippin ”miso stoopid juice’

          • cielo62 says:

            ic2fools~ “Miso” is Japanese Onion soup. Good stuff! Not likely to make you sway.


          • ic2fools says:

            apologies cielo62,for not explaining. i do know that too. but i chose to use miso instead of me so

            in other words instead of typing me so stoopid, i type miso stoopid.

            in many of my comments/replies i’ll write mi instead of me also. like mi thinks and such

            good catch 🙂

          • cielo62 says:

            ic2fools~ just messin’ wichya. I thought you’d be saying “drank” or whatever it is that is made with Skittles and cough syrup…


          • ic2fools says:

            lol got it…

            i read long ago over at nuthouse about that. from what i read and the video they posted of a person was literally on falling. holding onto a rail for support. it was very sad. i don’t know about it or or cared too research info on that one.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            ic2fools~ WAIT! If he’s swaying, does that mean he’s on drugs or sumpin’? High at the bench and swaying!?

            musta had a LEAN lunch 😉

          • ic2fools says:

            fauxie! okay fauxie and you too cielo62 i chuckled alright i laughed, not fair ‘LEAN lunch’ lol an a Lean breakfast. what was he thinkin ‘ah purty yella tie’..

            remember mr. cracker endorsed west replacing omar, blogged, discussed even posted he emailed him to get rid of omar.

            that’s got to be embarassing for mr. cracker. omar barkin at west ‘what are you doing’ after he swayed over too him realizing he had gave out pjs’ job location,

            @fauxi not sure if you know but you got mail, if you didn’t let me know i’ll resend.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            got your mail and replied.

            ha ha on mr cracker for dividing his house on the laurels he rested on the lean mr west 🙂

          • ic2fools says:

            oh goodness i must have deleted your reply please resend,

            lol lean mr west, good one. earlier i looked at west pics when he first began this and he has lost a lot of weight. much like omar this literally has taken all their physical substance, wasn’t much mental substance there to be lost watchin omara decision making.

  17. Two sides to a story says:

    Just more OM whistling to his wallets.

  18. Sleuth says:

    Looks like our man, Jerry C., PJ E7 got himself in some trouble coming back to the courthouse.


    This is very reason a lot folks fear serving.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Why would he show back up? That’s a really strange thing to do. Also strange that the media is outing him, etc. But that’s the nature of this case.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I don’t think he was necessarily an intentional stealth juror. Of course OM is ranting about it now. I hope they catch a Fogen stealth juror.

      • ay2z says:

        He is an idiot, trying to sabbotage the system.

      • ay2z says:

        Problem is, knowing about it if it doesn’t happen in voir dire as the defense did. Defense could have brought this to the court outside and before he came in.

        He was trying to be a stealth juror, especially given his actions today, he tried to return to the jury room.

      • lurker says:

        I agree he’s an idiot–not good for either side. But, apparently he was upset that his name was leaked to the press. Gotta wonder about that.

    • ay2z says:

      All these people could have wasted their time had he got back to them.

      O’Mara just called him a potential stealth juror.

      • lurker says:

        He also tap-danced about how this all came to light. Didn’t want to admit that they’ve got their interns googling and checking the FB and twitter accounts of every pj. Feels just a bit too creepy.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        OM is doing his usual song and dance, pointing fingers everywhere else to deflect attention from himself and West.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        so now we have PJs and PSJs …. got it!

        (agreed that dude is a bag of mixed nuts)

  19. Two sides to a story says:

    Here’s OM.

  20. Leisa says:

    No guess its press waiting for a statement from someone

  21. Two sides to a story says:

    Various court personnel talking. They don’t know the audio is on.

  22. ay2z says:

    The dismissed juror story, with his photo. Guess why this guy wanted to be on the jury, more than just the case siding potential, personal publicity. He’s getting that now.

    Gives artists a bad name, the idiot.

      • ay2z says:

        Once inside the courthouse on Friday, the dismissed juror began to express several concerns about his privacy and his treatment by the court system, so an investigator referred him to the clerk of courts and advised him to seek legal counsel.

        Authorities said that’s when the man walked away from the investigator and down to the jury assembly room. There, the officer told E7 he had been dismissed and was not allowed in the jury assembly area or have any contact with any potential jurors until after the trial has concluded.

        The deputy clerk of court referred E7 to the clerk’s office, which is when he replied, “Do they know what they are in for?” referring to other potential jurors.

        The dismissed juror then went to the Clerk’s Office. When finished, E7 was advised that he was barred from entry to the courthouse until the conclusion of the Zimmerman trial.

        E7 told Channel 9’s Ryan Hughes on Friday that he simply went to the courthouse to ask court officials to urge the judge to further protect prospective jurors.

        “This is all I did, and this is hurting me,” he said about the media attention after his dismissal.

        E7 was hoping more information isn’t released by the court in regards to other jurors, saying some media outlets have called him a “stealth juror” who “lied his way on the jury” to find Zimmerman guilty.

        He told Hughes he was taken into a holding area and was photographed before officially being barred from the building.

        E7 said he was escorted to vehicle as deputies took pictures of his car.

        Following his dismissal Wednesday, E7 told Channel 9 some people want him charged with perjury, though it is unlikely that will happen.

        “Until they showed it to me, I didn’t know I had responded to a website,” the former prospective juror said.

        The former prospective juror wrote that he believed Zimmerman’s family might’ve pulled strings and that’s why he didn’t initially get charged.

        “I mean, you got one guy minding his own business — going to his dad’s house carrying a soda and Skittles and another guy who think he’s Johnny Law. So it begged the question,” E7 told reporter Hughes.

        “What do you think you would’ve reached if you were on the jury?” asked Channel 9’s Ryan Hughes.

        “It depends on what the facts were,” E7 said.

    • ay2z says:

      This ex-pj, had he reached the group of juror potentials, he could have spoiled everyone he reached, or possibly contaminated, with whatever message he had.

  23. Leisa says:

    Am I hearing West and Fogen talking? I am on welsh 2. Live feed

  24. Trained Observer says:

    Big handshake between Fogen and the jury consultant. Was that a goodbye for the weekend or an adios for good.?

  25. Recess until Monday morning at 9 am.

  26. Xena says:

    O’Mara is holding a press conference in just a few minutes. Hold on to your hats.

  27. Sleuth says:

    Profeesor and FauxMcCoy

    Here are the PJ line up for next Monday and Tuesday.





  28. Malisha says:

    Did something happen somewhere else in the courthouse? Did that juror who got doxed or Junior or Taaffe or somebody get involved in something?

  29. ay2z says:

    Missed mose of last hour or so, what was the MOM handshake with Ben Crump about?

    For cameras?

  30. Two sides to a story says:

    Fogen looks more alert than usual.

    • gbrbsb says:

      Was just going to say the opposite TSTAS. The look I saw was so bleary eyed I immediately thought, what a dozy, and, against my better judgement, how much his jowls and eyes looked like those of a b*g f*t p*g ready for slaughter !

  31. Ms.X says:

    Omara is miffed. He lost. Let us rejoice!

  32. Leisa says:

    Wow. Mom looks pissed!

  33. gbrbsb says:

    Would love them both for me but especially for OH (we are both artists but he never moved onto computers like I did so sticks with all the traditional tools), if I weren’t over here…

    If no one bites try a youth project or poor school.

  34. Ms.X says:

    Omara is thr type of person who gave smallpox to the Native Americans. I don’t think they let him roll them though. I think he lost.

  35. smokeegyrl says:

    What is that all about… Why did Mom speak to Atty Crump?

  36. parrot says:

    Wonder what that conference is about between O’Mara and Crump.

  37. Sleuth says:

    Pleeeez somebody…..what’s going on at Juge Peppermint Patty’s bench?

  38. OT: Before I check with outside organizations, etc, is anyone here an artist or an art teacher: water color/acrylic/colored pencil/pads/ pastel, etc. New, sealed in packages, I am trying to keep these beautiful supplies from the landfill.Do you need to see a picture? Shipment only, I won’t accept money if they will go to good cause.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Local schools would love to have that stuff. I donated a bunch of stuff like that last time I moved.

    • parrot says:

      If you have a local elementary or high school nearby, you can donate them to the art teacher/department.

    • Dave says:

      Aren’t you still painting? You’ve posted some very beautiful work.

      • My real passion is folding origami cranes, hence the name Crane-Station. The mediums I used to create jail art were a combo of deodorant, magazine ink, ink and colored pencil!

        When I was young, my original love was for chalk pastels, but they are very expensive, at least the good one are, like the Sennelier chalk pastels. I was never a painter, and I consider water color to be really hard, because you can’t make mistakes!

    • gbrbsb says:

      Would love them both for me but especially for OH (we are both artists but he never moved onto computers like I did so sticks with all the traditional tools), if I weren’t over here…

      If no one bites try a youth project or poor school.

    • cielo62 says:

      Crane~ I am school teacher. If you want to send art supplies for my classroom, i can ALWAYS use them! I teach at a Title 1 school; I buy many of our supplies out of [pocket. I’ll pay for shipping. Next year’s kids can use new supplies.


      • I have, all unused/and or sealed: (and I don’t want money. This is my mission-type thing)

        Grumbacher Academy Acrylique

        -mars black hue 5.07 oz C13411

        -titanium white C21211

        Grumbacher Academy Acrylic 3 fl oz

        -raw umber C172

        cadmium red medium C029

        -raw umber C172

        -cobaltt blue hue C049

        -grumbacher red C095

        Hooker’s green C105

        -cerulean blue hue C309

        -cadmium yellow C034

        -thalo green c205

        ultramarine blue c219

        thalo blue c203

        payne’s grey c092

        cadmuim orange

        yellow ochre light hue c244

        burnt sienna

        thallo yello green c 210

        raw sienna c 171

        alizarin crimson c0001

        burnt umber c024

        dioxazine purple c094


        unopened package of 10 van gough water colors in tubes

        7.5 ml yellow tube grumbacher waer color
        Winsor and Newton, tubes, 1.25 oz:(water mixable)

        cerulean blue

        -a sack of small unopened watercolor tubes

        -Prismacolor watercolor pencils

        -winsor and newton nice container of unused water color cubes

        alizarin crimson

        -at least 10 or so sealed and unopened colored pencils and a variety of ‘art sticks.’

        From my many years of dumpster diving experience, these items look nearly new, unused, excellent to pristine. In fact, I even searched for the receipt.

        People used to laugh and laugh at me for what I do, but not anymore. My goal is to get these things into hands that need them, and the collection looks like it was a move-away where the people could not afford to transport. This is a lot of stuff. Tell me what numbers on the tubes and boxes you need to know, and also, I will attempt a photo.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @crane — as a make up artist, i drool at that prospect, sadly, it is not suitable for my medium. i cannot believe what some folks throw away.

    • Rachael says:

      Would they be suitable for my granddaughter’s daycare or would these be more for older children?

      • ay2z says:

        Good point, about suitability. Professional grade or older color making materials, can have heavy metals as the color itself.

        The labels should say as far as any paints go, but chalk pastels might also be a problem for kids unless they are specifically kid safe because they powder off and get on hands, in air etc.

      • To be honest, I (am not a teacher) but they seem to be for older students. To be honest, do they still use fingerpaints and paper mache these days?

    • Malisha says:

      Also children’s hospital; also senior center; also women’s prison.

      • Great suggestions, although women’s prison only accepts certain things from certain contracted vendors (which is called ripping people off, in some circles).

    • diary73 says:

      Our art teacher is brilliant and is in desperate need of supplies for her advanced class. Email me if they are still available, Crane.

      • cielo62 says:

        crane station: WOW! You got a ton of options! You can’t go wrong with any of them!


      • Scroll the thread, read the list and let me know. That’s not even the complete list!

      • Not sure, did you read the list in reply to cielo? tuff like Let me know if your teacher is able to use stuff like that!

        • cielo62 says:

          Crane-Station~ I’d like the colored pencils, please. We don’t use oils or acrylics in 2nd grade. 🙂


          • Hold on, I will try to post photos, just a sec…

          • Photos:

            dumpster colored pencil sets 003

            and same set different photo (I am a terrible photographer):

            dumpster colored pencil sets 001

            Is this sort of thing okay for 2nd grade? Or not? I don’t know. There are 7 or 8 sets, unused to pristine (where only a couple of pencils appear to have been sharpened). There is only a very slight crumple to one box, because of my clumsiness- I tripped and dropped it when I got it home.

            You should have heard the likes of this woman the other day, bitching at me for dumpster diving, she’s like “And your husband knows you do this?!” I told her I had been doing this for 10 years, but didn’t say much more, b/c I don’t need the competition.

            And BTW all of y’all trolls out there: the cops in the town know me, know I dive, and I have worked with them on helping to find a vehicle they were looking for; they all know the divers in this small town, and they know we are not ‘identity thieves’ or whatever other nonsense the MSM wants people to think we are.

            In fact, I work, as you can see, to get things to people who can use them, and I don’t do it for the money, so there! (had to say it cielo, you know how it is with the trolls, LOL)

          • cielo62 says:

            Crane~ Oh yes PLEASE! I’m serious about the postage. That looks like it could run over $10 to send. 😦 


          • Okay, here is what I will do. On Monday, I will get the rate estimate for the various ways to ship, and Fred will email these numbers to you.You can choose the method We will go from there. My guess-timate is 10 to 15 dollars to ship, which is a great deal for that many supplies IMO. Glad to save them from the landfill. They seem perfect for grade school teaching, not 10 dollars a stick but better than Crayola, maybe. (Higher end Michaels or Hobby Lobby!)

          • cielo62 says:

            Crane~ Sounds awesome!


  39. Ms.X says:

    Bernie is not happy. Omara is fighting like a gladiator to have him removed. Jesus be a fence….

  40. LeaNder says:

    It feels to me that the defense uses a lot of rather transparent psychological tools. Of course they jump on everything that hints at emotions, even when someone remembers Trayvon’s smile. But they also wants to know what type of images of both they keep in mind. This allows them to enter deeper layer of the psyche.

    And then they ideally look for controllers, that was a challenged H6 just missed. Quite obviously he is not willing to work as a jury enforcer. He can ignore these things but he will not call the deputy, or whoever and inform on the respective jury member.

    That’s how they will manage to filter out people who are closer to GZ’s mindset. His peers.

  41. Sleuth says:


    Too funny! You picked a winner. Now you Junior & Company are going to be p’d off when they sees this.

  42. It’s 4:42 pm. Will she recess for the weekend or bring on another PJ?

    They’ve only questioned 7 today.

  43. Ms.X says:

    They are getting ready to wrap for the weekend. Omara is arguing to dismiss the Black teacher guy but is not winning.

  44. Notice O’Mara’s body language at the bench. He’s turned his back in a way that blocks West out.

    Are we seeing a little hostility?

    • ic2fools says:

      i’missed that but i heard the hositility when west last up. while questioning the juror about the trayvon supporters parking at her jobs parking lot west stopped walked over to omara and jury consultant i heard omara snap at west ‘what are you doing?

      just saw west try to approach omara he turned his back and walked toward bernie then bernie pointed omara towards the bench and judge nelson. while at the bench omara had his back to west.

      discord in the fogen defense team was bound to happen. wonder how omara will handle further court appearances with west.

      me thinks west will want out and will side with florida bar in hopes to save himself from suspension and disbarrment after this trial

      • fauxmccoy says:

        ha ha ha ha ha

        “west stopped walked over to omara and jury consultant i heard omara snap at west ‘what are you doing? ”

        expect to hear a lot more of it!

        • ic2fools says:

          alrighty i will be diligently listening and watching omar/west interactions.

          omar best be careful fussin at west. ’cause west will flip a skeletor hissy fit on omar

          that will be priceless

      • Jun says:

        To be real, West is not in a lot of trouble, if people were to complain

        The only thing I can say he did was he let slip a witness name when he was not supposed to

        Omara on the other hand, we have a list

        I think West will not be in as much trouble as Omara, if any

      • ic2fools says:

        hi Jun! your on the right trak about west for sure. i may make light of him,during this proceedings, obviously west is past his time to be effective in court. i noticed judge debra has given him more room for error because of his weaked abilities.

        i can see now how my position about fogens’ defense team being held responsibile for their illegal actions has gone too far including west.

        i’ve will not look at them anymore thinking ‘your only as good as the company you keep’. in the beginning i knew west had known omara for a long time worked together but west might not believed omara would stoop this low in foregoing moral reasonable defense ethics handling fogen defense. taking down anyone and everyone whose involved in the case from Trayvon, State employees, fogens’ wife to his own offices/team including west himself.

        i’ve experienced much in my years but this has given way to a whole new chapter of my learning experiences.

    • Ms.X says:

      I observed the same. Something tense was happening @ the bench. He was trying to get his way & didn’t. They didn’t let him roll them. He was clearly angry. You can also tell that he doesn’t think West is all that helpful. Omara had an attitude crisis. He’ll have to shake it off this weekend. Omara is a devil.

    • Sleuth says:

      Yeah, and I also noticed the consultant for the State crossing his arms and discreetly moving away from him like you do if the person you’re moving away from had serious body odor.

  45. The word for the day ts G-81.

    CTH must have fallen out the tree on that one.

  46. Ms.X says:

    Long sidebar. One side wants the juror & the other side doesn’t. I hope the judge is laying down the law.

  47. I cut my face yesterday bending a piece of metal, when it recoiled and hit me below the eye. Even after H2O2 cleanup it bled for many hours. My question is: Can I go kill somebody in the street and claim self-defense, especially if I put a great big butterfly bandaid on the cut? I also have a black eye. So does that add to the need for killing someone because maybe there is the possibility that the nose was broken, even though no x-ray proves anything?

    • fauxmccoy says:

      sorry you’re injured crane 😦 heal well.

    • Rachael says:

      Umm, is Professor in any danger? LOL

      Hope it feels better soon. I’m sure that can’t feel good.

    • disappointed says:

      I do not think you should kill anyone, but that piece of metal needs it ass kicked! 🙂 I hope you are not in to much pain.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Well, you might end up in court. Just sayin’.

      Glad you didn’t do more damage!

    • Nef05 says:

      Oh, OUCH! Goodness C-S, that must have hurt like hell. Glad to see you’re feeling well enough to post.

      PS. No killing. They’d never let us on the jury, being totally biased on behalf of the defendant. 😉

    • gbrbsb says:

      Don’t see why not… might use it myself for some of those on my ever lengthening hit list !

    • ay2z says:

      Sorry to hear that, Crane. Sounds like you have a free pass to killing someone, just think ahead, get your plan together, and make sure no one knows of or sees your injuries until the plan unfolds.

    • Xena says:

      @Crane-Station. Sorry to hear about the accident and may you heal quickly.

      I would ask Bernie to kiss your boo-boo and make it better, but Professor may not like that. 🙂

    • Malisha says:

      BE CAREFUL! We don’t want the justifiable homicide stats to rise.

    • ic2fools says:

      oh crane noo, hope you heal quickly, please be take extra care.

    • towerflower says:

      Yikes, yes you might be under suspicion for assault on a piece of steel. Just because it wouldn’t bend to your authority is no right to try and make it bend to your will. Obviously it was Standing it’s Ground in fighting back.

      Hopefully you had some safety glasses on. Hope you feel better soon.

    • Sleuth says:

      You did say metal right? Sure you weren’t fooling around with one of those cheaply made Kel-Tec’s?

      Cut your face, sounds like kick back to me.

      Were you by any chance stalking teenagers carrying Skittles and Arizona Ice Tea?

      Now you know you can’t cry victimhood after that.

      No really, I hope you’re feeling better real soon. 🙂

      • True story: I was bending a metal part that holds a lampshade onto a lamp, to hook something out of a dumpster. In case you didn’t know, I’m pretty much (approx 75 percent) freegan and have been, for several years. I am always inventing hooks, because I tend to lose quite a few. I rarely climb in anymore, unless it’s furniture, and one of my pet peeves is when people actually throw trash into a dumpster, LOL!

      • The only gun-related things I have found is occasional bullets; I cannot and do not own a gun, but have a good buddy who is licensed and does carry. (Which is not unusual in Kentucky)

  48. smokeegyrl says:

    While they are discussing in a sidebar… I just seen this post.

    • Rachael says:

      Mmmmkay – tell us how you REALLY feel LOL

    • gbrbsb says:

      Thanks for laugh… refreshing interlude for the long powwow !

    • willisnewton says:

      You just made my day worthwhile!

    • Nef05 says:

      One of my favorite shows. Kamau Bell never pulls his punches. Chris’ add on comment had me LOL and yelling, “YEAH!” at the same time.

    • Sleuth says:


      I don’t know how my post got down stream, guess I wasn’t paying attention.

      Well, here it is again.

      Sleuth says:
      June 14, 2013 at 3:44 pm

      Too funny! You picked a winner. Now you Junior & Company are going to be p’d off when they sees this.

      Sleuth says:
      June 14, 2013 at 3:46 pm
      Ooops! I meant to say, Now you know

      • smokeegyrl says:

        lol… Chris Rock did a job didn’t he? hahahahahaha wait til he sees my next two videos on a serious side… the nail might be driven a little deeper in his soul. lol

  49. Trial-is-underwaybaby says:

    The last pj up said Zimm sounded like a guy concerned for his neighborhood… lmao, please he sounded like he was being nosey and the one “up to no good, or on drugs or something”

  50. Sleuth says:

    Feed back up.

    Wonder what’s going on at the judge’s bench. In addition to the attorney’s, consultants, I also see baliffs moving close in that direction?

    • lurker says:

      Probably totting up how many more they are going to need to question to get to 50 (it is 50 now, not 40? I forget) before Tuesday when she told the others to come back.

  51. Dave says:

    They’re avoiding any sort of answer that might be cause for dismissal because thay want to get on the jury for one reason or other.

    • Yep, I’ve never seen so many PJs want to serve on the jury.

    • Dave says:

      No offense taken, looolooo (If I was any whiter I’d be a ghost.)

    • lurker says:

      It’s gotta be really tough. It’s been a pretty big event, and it’s gotta be all that much bigger in Seminole County. I don’t know that this particular screen is going to be terribly helpful. Better to assume that they have all heard plenty and focus on trying to probe their ability to compartmentalize what they heard before the trial from what is presented in the courtroom.

  52. I don’t like this guy. Probably no basis for a cause challenge, so Bernie may have to use a peremptory.

  53. Two sides to a story says:

    If this one is hiding a lot, he’s pretty good at it.

  54. Mandelbaum says:

    Is BDLR asking the right questions? I’m not so sure.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      i think sometimes he is a bit too quick to start his next question. keeping someone talking by providing a bit of awkward silence can accomplish a lot. i used this tactic often as a manager.

  55. Ms.X says:

    The defense likes this guy.

    Omara is taking a poll on how effective his pre-trial smear tactics were to see if its worth doing again.

    I wonder why so many of the pjs claim to have so little information? Its hard to believe.

    This gut is in like Flint.

  56. looolooo says:

    Why are ALL of the white people (no offense) lying about what they’ve heard, remember, and think about this case?

    Are these people typical white Floridians?

  57. Two sides to a story says:

    I get the feeling neither side knows what to think of this guy.

  58. smokeegyrl says:

    He said his father is Hispanic… lmao… I about fell out of my chair.

    • disappointed says:

      I think Fogen rolled his eyes.

      Stay safe!

    • Yeah, I noticed that, too.

    • Mandelbaum says:

      Is RZsr. fogen’s bio dad? Because he, joonyah nor Gracie don’t seem to have ANY caucasian features or appearance at all. That’s weird. They all look 100% hispanic/afro-peruvian.

      • towerflower says:

        Doesn’t mean he isn’t. It’s all in the genes. You never know what will take precedence for outward appearance and what will dominant the inside. You never know, maybe one of Z’s future kids that he talks about will look like the German side.

      • Shari says:

        I wondered the same thing. I know how these things can go. Sometimes a multiraical child will take on the physical characteristics of one race. But with Fogen I suspect Sr. is not the bio dad. But he very well could be. Just notable to me that both brothers don’t APPEAR half white. When I saw Fogens mugshot he resembled many of the Mexican immigrants from CA that I knew.

  59. whonoze says:

    The woman West got dinged would have been good for the State. Instead we get this guy, with his “media bias for Trayvon” act that has MOM drooling.

  60. disappointed says:

    Mom’s concern is the word victim! His real concern should be lies and DNA!

  61. lurker says:

    Was Trayvon Martin the victim of a crime or just an event?


  62. Two sides to a story says:

    West seems perpetually puzzled.

    • gbrbsb says:

      Not surprised, PJ just referred to GZ’s so called “life threatening”, “about to die” injuries as “some cuts on him” !

  63. disappointed says:

    there were no bruises.

  64. Sleuth says:

    What’s going on? I hear these people arguing in the background. Anyone else hear it? Someone is asking “Are you alright? There’s laughter, people, American and Latinos.

    Now discussion about the Heat. Some lady saying she was afraid she was going to die.

    Does anybody hear it?

  65. smokeegyrl says:

    BTW can everyone take a 2nd and say a prayer for my state of Colorado. The fire is only 5% contained and right now the wind is blowing like crazy. I live 20 minutes from Castle Rock and another 15 minutes from Black Forest.

  66. fauxmccoy says:

    somehow not liking this guy.

  67. Two sides to a story says:

    H6 seems relatively neutral. Hard to read. Intelligent.

  68. Hi Prof & everyone,

    Thread is over 800 comments & hard to load, can we have new thread?

    <<<<<<<<back to lurking and reading 🙂

  69. Sleuth says:

    ooh! ask me Bernie! i would tell my out of town visitors a sociopath/psychopath was wondering the neighborhood stalking young AA boys and murdered one.

  70. Sleuth says:

    Yeah, Junior has got them believing that mess about being attacked.

    H6 is basically admitting he believed it. Busted up his head with a can of ice tea and skittles although there’s been no mention of the confessed murderer’s dna being found on those item, at least none that I know of.

  71. Thinks most of the media was slanted toward Trayvon at the beginning and now it has gone the other way.

  72. Judy75201 says:

    I’m dying to hear someone say “I’ve got a bad memory” lol.

    • Malisha says:

      I’d like to hear, “To be honest with you, I’ve got a bad memory.”

      Oh in fact, here’s a question session I’d like to hear:

      Q: Did you hear about this case in the news?

      A: Yes, but it seemed real suspicious.

      Q: How so?

      A: They were just talking about the news, checking it out.

      Q: Did you form an opinion?

      A: Well I didn’t know what their thing was. Somepin’s wrong with them.

      Q: Have you already decided on whether you think the defendant is guilty or not guilty?

      A: He looks like he’s on drugs or somepin.

      Q: Is he Black, white or Hispanic?

      A: I heard he’s Afro-Peruvian on his mother’s side and American on his father’s side so I guess I won’t form an opinion until all the evidence comes out. Except he’s not Mexican.

      Q: Did you hear that the defendant had a valid license to carry a weapon?

      A: Homie, to be honest with you, I forgot the answer to that. But if you give me one phone call I’ll ask a friend — oh sh!t I forgot what pocket I put my cell phone in. Now I’ve got a problem!

    • towerflower says:

      Has anyone admitted to seeing MOM on the news that they heard?

  73. whonoze says:

    Excused because West extracted too much about her work location. Annonymity compromised.

  74. Big Willie says:

    “THEY had no business on the property”! Kindly escort her out. lol

  75. Apparently, the woman was excused for cause.

  76. Two sides to a story says:

    Watches CNN. Hopeful.

  77. smokeegyrl says:

    What the heck just happened???? huh???

  78. Leisa says:

    What happened?

  79. Ms.X says:

    Zimmerman takes a moment to glance at his book, The Cat in The Hat, which he has stashed in his spiral notebook.

  80. Two sides to a story says:

    What was that all about?

  81. disappointed says:

    She is a no.

  82. ic2fools says:

    lets see, what’l lwest next line of questions be?

    photos in the media.

    darn that pj was moved along quickly.

  83. smokeegyrl says:

    Who is that guy that helping the defense team?

  84. Not sure what’s happening with this sidebar.

  85. ic2fools says:

    skeletor sways over to omara and jury consultant, lost at sea without a compass

    whoops i just heard omara say ‘what are you doing?’. thats’ not good..

    west will be back moving his mouth like a guppie in a fish bowl. duh glub glub bubbles o duh

  86. dianetrotter says:

    They had no “business” at her work location. Does she mean they are tresspassers on private property?

    • disappointed says:

      I think she said 2 tour buses pulled up at the property she worked at to go to Memorial. Her boss asked them to leave because they had no business on that property. I believe BDR referred to her as working at a school. Schools are all over stranger danger. jmo

    • Sleuth says:

      IIRC, the Memorial was set up just outside on the grass outside the gated community on public property. Quite a few residents liked it but Old Taafee wanted it moved.

      I think they eventually moved to some Historic Civic Archive building.

      Maybe some people were parking on private property, if so, they were most definitely wrong.

  87. Sleuth says:

    He did ask her about what her boss said about the Memorial. He’s deliberately trying to confuse this lady.

  88. RobertSF says:

    Maaaan, if you’re in the witness box, wait until the question is fully asked, and then answer ONLY the question.

  89. smokeegyrl says:

    Is she an employee of the complex? Cuz it surely sounds like it.

  90. ic2fools says:

    here goes skeletor my head started throbbing

  91. Leisa says:

    She works at the school near L@TT

    • smokeegyrl says:

      She has two jobs, just wondering if the other job is on the complex itself because the memorial was right outside the front gate. There is a church across the street.

  92. Dave says:

    West talks to her like she was a child. She must love that.

  93. Sleuth says:

    Great! Another pj who got it right….A TEENAGE BOY! Bless her heart.

  94. disappointed says:

    Out of town guest. What would you tell them happened? An incident between Mr Zimmerman and a teenage boy. Fogen swallowed hard.

  95. Hey guys

    A person claiming to be Juror E7 posted on 3ChicsPolitico to explain what happened in court.

  96. Sleuth says:

    Who is she? Wolf Blitzer’s sister? The Situation?

  97. Boyd says:

    very strange that so many people speak of the rallies and race yet don’t seem to know too much about the case.

    seriously are there that many people with so little curiosity?

    I bet this case is on TV and Radio almost every day down there.

    • dianetrotter says:

      The one guy earlier summed it up. Once you see it is black people, you know it’s nothing but trouble.

  98. Leisa says:

    Thinks rallies were about people wanting justice..

  99. Sleuth says:

    That guy from Sanford via Miami gave O’Dirty a run for his money. He was too awesome!

    But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. – I Corinthians 1:27-29

  100. Judy75201 says:

    So does BDLR know G-87 in a work-related area?

  101. ay2z says:

    Bernie’s getting into a groove !

    • looolooo says:

      From now on when I listen to the song “Don’t disturb this goove” by The System on my iphone,…… I’ll think of Bernie. And 🙂

  102. ay2z says:

    (contrast the history educator, compared to the woman admin/school discipline person, who assumed Trayvon was bad character who came to Sanford, based on her preconeptions of youth)

  103. ay2z says:

    This pj if he becomes a juror, will be a positive influence on anyone with problems of precoceptions of any black males. Gone, poof!

    • ay2z says:

      (re: last pj, black historian educator, male)

    • Nef05 says:

      Unfortunately my experience tells me they’ll just label him as one of the “good ones” and then dismiss him from their minds as an anomaly.

      • Ms.X says:

        If not that, they will ignore or otherwise dismiss his input. Hes unlikely to let it slide w/out a challenge, but it could get ugly depending on the ego of the opposition.

  104. Two sides to a story says:

    Black lady?

  105. smokeegyrl says:

    Judge Nelson sure is smiling big time right about now.

  106. Two sides to a story says:

    So glad I stopped my floor scrubbing to watch that one live. Hope we get more like him.

  107. G87 is next up in the box.

  108. ay2z says:

    Under the G– 87 (next PJ)

  109. Ms.X says:

    The judge likes this pj. Omara is still trying to find a reason to exclude him. Omara: Are you a member of National Action Network? Are you a Black Panther? Are you a member of the NAACP? Did you vote for Obama? Why do you consider death a tragedy? If someone kills another person, does the killer suffer a tragedy as well? I hope bernie fights 2 keep him

    • Sleuth says:

      I think she likes him too, and appreciated those reflections on AA history. Oh, you can bet O’Dirty wants him out.

  110. Sleuth says:


    Can you think of any reason this guy won’t be chosen?

    • The defense will try to use a peremptory challenge that I believe would violate the Batson rule.

      Judge Nelson will be on the spot and I could tell by the little smile at the corner of her mouth that she knows exactly how historically significant those questions and answers were.

      We watched an historic event and it was sublime.

      • Sleuth says:

        Very good!

        Yes, we just saw a, “This Month In Black History” moment. I was waiting for him to mention Emmit Till, Rosewood, Florida, Pitts and Lee, etc.

  111. Leisa says:

    I think jury consultant knows they are stuck with this guy.

  112. Nef05 says:

    Body language at the bench looks like “no cause” to me, but I haven’t seen many of the last couple of days.

  113. The arc of history bends slowly, Dr. King, and it has entered this courtroom.

    • Nef05 says:

      Yes, sir!

    • ay2z says:

      beaufiful and so refreshing

    • looolooo says:

      Whoa! 🙂 🙂 🙂

    • Xena says:


      The arc of history bends slowly, Dr. King, and it has entered this courtroom.

      “A dream conceived in truth never dies.” Lyric in “Black Butterfly” by Deniece Williams.

      • Shari says:

        Love that song. If you want a laugh imagine my non singing behind trying to hit those notes! SMH

        • Xena says:

          @Shari. I love that song too. It’s been my inspiration for many years. The birth of a butterfly is something we humans should remember when we go through lonely and/or dark times. It’s because we are changing to come forth stronger, reach higher, and go further.

          It was the inspiration for the Yahoo Group and then extended to my blog, Blackbutterfly7.

          Singing? Let’s not talk about hitting those notes. 🙂

  114. smokeegyrl says:

    WoW, I’m impressed!

  115. disappointed says:

    Defense team probably needs some hard liquor about now.

  116. ay2z says:

    MOM, Q about perspectives.

    “People see things as of their perspective, and people bring those, and time to time they colour current situation with those perspectives.

    Tragic– “I’ve lived enogh to know, when someone passes away, no matter what circ’stances…. tragic.” Both sides, victim and family and for going through court system on other side.

    PJ says in history, violence rate for AA to lose life is high. Typical to lose life if you are AA male.

    OMOM says he thinks PJ is giving personal view, but wants to know if from this case.

    I don’t tweet. FB? Yeah– only fB he has is with bros and sisters, keep in touch.

    MOM Not default for news? No.

    Social clubs, civic organizations that you belong to that have talked about this event at all?

    Why tragic in relation to how media presented it? “I would say during that time, in city of Chicago there were number of murders that happened that didn’t receive this amount of media, that’s what makes this case different”.

    Conflict with prev positions or fall in line with it?

    first time I had … heard of situation about how Sanford handled it…. as far as local media follwoing up or gett’g in volved… hadn’t heartd that before.”

    What he knew of GZ background.
    “NW… in that complex onlly thing I can recall”

    Cause you any concerns? “no”

    Trayvon background you heard? “Up visiting his dad during all-star weekend”

    Generally keeping up with this case? “hearing in passing…. local news.”

    Anything I’ve said or dlr said, brought up memories of media effect on you? “No.”

    Anything else? “Mp”

    • ay2z says:

      (hope my typing survived that in readable form)

    • gbrbsb says:

      I just listened to the recording of this witness as I missed it and I was very impressed, full of reflective wisdom, like when he said:

      “I would say during that time, in city of Chicago there were number of murders that happened that didn’t receive this amount of media, that’s what makes this case different”.

      That immediately reminded me of the case in March 2012, (just weeks after the death of Trayvon), of Daniel Adkins, a learning impaired adult with the mentality of a thirteen year old, shot dead in broad daylight while walking his dog “Lady”, by a Cornell Jude, a black 22 year old, stopped in his car in a supermarket parking somewhere in Arizona. I have bought it up a couple of times here, as it doesn’t seem to have caught on as a cause anywhere, as I can’t find any blogs dedicated to it either. The shooter claimed SYG and/or Self defence alleging that Daniel had tried to smash his car window with a metal pipe, angry that the shooter had only just missed running him, (or his dog), over, and that to protect himself and his pregnant girlfriend he “was forced to shoot”… sound familiar? All the police found at the scene was Lady still with her leash clutched in Daniel’s hand where he lay dead. Many months later, after a lengthy investigation, the shooter was finally arrested and charged (I am not sure but I believe it was manslaughter) but as much as I Google it every so often to see how the case is progressing, there is zilch about it anywhere. Sadly the media appears to have no interest in the case, showing that, justice is also not freely available to those in the US not blessed with money, power, or intelligence !

  117. looolooo says:

    I hope that this PJ’s words are some how soothing to Sybrina and Tracy. After the beating they took yesterday, they need and deserve it. Oh and Crump too. He looked genuinley heart-sick when that one particular cold-hearted older white PJ took jab after jab at Sybrina especially.

    • Two sides to a story says:


    • SoulSistaWoo says:

      I also thought about now wonder a presentation and representation this young man had to have been for Trayvon’s family to watch… He represented for Trayvon, Himself and Blackmen in general very well… I hope Sybrina found confort in know this man may be on the jury… I pray.

      • SoulSistaWoo says:

        I also thought about how wonderful a presentation and representative this young man had to have been for Trayvon’s family to watch… He represented for Trayvon, hisself and blackmen in general very well… I hope Sybrina found comfort in knowing this man may be on the jury… I pray.

        Professor please delete the post above ^^^^ Thanks.

  118. disappointed says:

    I think Fogen is soiling his diaper. He knows this guy is to smart to buy his bull shite.

    • looolooo says:

      Hopefully he and ShelLIE are on good terms, cause there’s no way he can reach into the vast cravases of his azz to properly clean and sanitize.

      She’d better at least get a Louie Vuitton out of it.

    • Ms.X says:

      Why do you call Zimerman “Fogen?” What does it mean?

      • Tee says:

        Short for forgotten. We don’t say his name here and out of respect we try not to call names so we use Fogen.

        • cielo62 says:

          Tee~ in Ancient Egypt (and in many Middle Eastern cultures), names have power. Someone noticed that this case had been called the Zimmerman case, giving him the power of name recognition. SOOOO… inventively, it was decided to FORGET his name, remove power from him. FOrGottEN was shortened to FOGEN. Symbolicaaly, I feel that has empowered those seeking justice for Trayvon. Fogen’s power to control this case is gone.


  119. type1juve says:

    We need him on this jury. He’s thoughtful, articulate and well informed.

  120. I feel like I am watching an historical moment right now!

  121. Nef05 says:

    I want this guy on the jury so bad I can taste it!

  122. Sleuth says:

    Dang! How many notes did O’Dirty just collect from the consultant? Yup, just like we thought, they want him out.

  123. Two sides to a story says:

    West rubs his face a lot. Am I strange because I like yellow ties? I just don’t like them on West!

    • Xena says:

      @Two sides. West’s tie isn’t yellow. It’s gold — bright, holiday gold. He’s probably wearing matching socks. 🙂

    • Malisha says:

      Perhaps you are not strange “because” you like yellow ties.
      Perhaps you are strange “AND” you like yellow ties, or
      perhaps you are strange “BUT” you like yellow ties.

      Or not. 😀

  124. Bring it brother! Bring it about the death of AA males losing their lives through violence since slavery. Yeah…he went there!

  125. “I don’t tweet.”

  126. This man is a walking history book.

  127. Sleuth says:

    Is O’Dirty referring to that noticeable scar on the confessed murderer’s left cheek, caused by the ex-girlfriend’s dog? If so, heck, it’s on all his pics.

  128. ZCBest says:


  129. ZCBest says:

    I am in love!

  130. smokeegyrl says:

    Fagan looks worried or puzzled to me. Looks like Mom is trying really hard to discredit this PJ. wow 1/2 mile from the scene… This PJ sounds nice.

  131. disappointed says:

    Age of Trayvon in photo. Other photos of Trayvon that you remember? Did you see the photo of Fogen with his knuckle bandages on his head and nose?

  132. I think he may be a teacher.

    He perfectly described the photograph of TM with TM wearing the Hollister T-shirt.

  133. ay2z says:

    He’s involved in education. Has the media had carryover effect to admin and students question he says no not at all, where he works.

    Gernally, he also says no, doesn’t generally affect youth in Sanf area.

    He was pictures, saw few. MOM brings up ‘orange jumper’

    Hollister photo, says it was burgundy, it was red. How old would you guess? 14-15 he says his estimate of age.

    (he does look young, had a growth spurt recently according to Sybrina)

    More current photos? MOM going after the recent cell phone videos and photo images of Trayvon.

    PJ says re-enactment vid early on, only one he remembers? He doesnt’ remember if GZ was in that video.

  134. Sleuth says:

    Best pj so far, him and the recent high school graduate, and one other young guy. I also the lady from the 1st day, I think should could be from the caribbean.

  135. Juror G81- My family is sad b/c a young teenager lost life. Took family to the park right across the street from where the shooting took place.

  136. Ms.X says:

    The defense won’t let this guy on the jury, but he would be great. He is smart & articulate.

  137. Deborah Moore says:

    This is amazingly honest and mind bending.
    Anyone want a pulitzer prize? Write this story.
    A town that has something poisonous living under the city, brought out by a murder and trial.

  138. Oh man, this guy is smart, deep and well spoken.

  139. looolooo says:

    Good grief dismissed pj Jerry Counelis (unemplyed painter/guitar player/Coffee Party Progressive) has just been escorted by deputies from the Court House. He’s hiring an attorney because his name has been leaked to the media. And now his face is out there as well. Mission accopmplished.

    Justice for Trayvon……. ONLY.

  140. ay2z says:

    He lives in Sanford, he and his family from MIami. He was close to the complex where it happened, and was there at his home, that night.

    Intelligent pj. He’s handling this well.

  141. Sleuth says:

    Finally, a pj who realize Trayvon was a minor!

    O’Dirty is trying to get this guy out!

  142. Dave says:

    It’s because the PJ is a suspicious looking guy.

  143. He lives within a half mile of the location where Trayvon was shot to death.

  144. Nef05 says:

    Prof – could his living in close proximity to the crime scene be considered “cause”?

  145. Deborah Moore says:

    Bless his heart. How honest and bright and responsible.

  146. Sleuth says:

    Is that bald guy in the gallery Osterman? The ladies seated by him look very familiar.

    P. S. I see the confessed murderer is paying attention now.

  147. This man and his family are from Miami.

  148. dianetrotter says:

    Yes my brother! Articulate and communicate!

  149. FactsFirst says:

    I just fell in love with this pj…

  150. ic2fools says:

    is it just me, is only omara questioning aa pjs’ and not west?

    i notice omara body/facial language not as relaxed questioning this pj.

    • Leisa says:

      No smiles for this one either.

    • Dave says:

      It’s because the PJ is a suspicious looking guy

      • ic2fools says:

        hi Dave. yes he is is a suspicious looking guy, just looking at omara directly without biased response.

        omara reaction is not of a happy camper, his words are accompanied with forced faked weakened smiles…..

    • Sleuth says:

      Naw, it ain’t you. You’re spot on with that observation. I guess he thinks he can intimidate AA’s, with his no so beautiful looks.

      • ic2fools says:

        Today did not look good for omar, upcoming jury selections aren’t looking to good for fogen defense.either.

        if sleepy hollows icabod had any desendents, he would look like omar

  151. Sleuth says:

    Is the confessed murderer falling asleep?

    This young man sounds so informed and intelligent. I like his southern drawl. He’s a keeper. 🙂

    • ic2fools says:

      @Sleuth, and here i thought my computer had froze on fogens’ face.

      yep this pj is a keeper, omara fishing to get rid him.

      • Sleuth says:

        Sometimes I think it’s my computer or the live stream freezing up, but there are times the live stream is flowing just smoothing. He is just an arrogant son of…….his daddy! 🙂

    • looolooo says:

      He’s also more forthcoming with what he’s heard about this case. They others IMO are lying.

      Yes, he is a keeper. I only hope that he has NO internet comments that they can uncover. (fingers crossed)

  152. Deborah Moore says:

    I think we have witnessed several brave young voices speaking up and out today.

  153. Two sides to a story says:

    Just scrolled through the entire thread to catch up – you guys are awesome and I miss y’all when I’m away!

  154. ay2z says:

    PJ mentioned SYG law and rallies going on, as what he remembered early on.

    At first, there was media stories of shock that this young person shooting was allowable under the laws.

    “Seemed to me, lot of q’s about that particular law, didn’t know if something what went on that would have to come out in trial?”

    Gut reaction, a tragedy, both sides, one lost his life, the other has to go through this trial/

  155. evokid7 says:

    GOD WHO IS THAT women by the bald head dude. Her face is obviously the result of bad cosmetic surgery her lips are distracting me. I just can never under stand at all.

  156. ZCBest says:

    He is going to say what I think he is going to say. School him young man. Please say it eloquently!

  157. Sleuth says:

    I notice the consultant is also a lefty. How weird is that?

  158. Xena says:

    West is wearing his holiday tie today.

  159. FactsFirst says:

    Now why is O’Mara coming at him like that? That shit just pissed me off..

    • ay2z says:

      You mean Bernie? That was to get the point on record emphatically to support this PJ)

      • FactsFirst says:

        It just seems like the O’Mara has nicer approach for some of the other pj’s… O’Mara, in my opinion, approach the AA pj’s like they’re on trial.. Bernie something else too now… But he don’t discriminate… It is what it is with Bernie…

  160. G81 doesn’t comment on the story b/c people are MEAN SPIRITED and has NOTHING to do with the story.


    Translation: I don’t comment b/c too many mean ass racists talking ish about things that has nothing to do with what’s going on.

    • Xena says:

      @SG2. BINGO! No matter the subject of the article on Yahoo, Zidiots turn it to race and use creative means to post racial slurs.

  161. Xena says:

    Kathi Belich, WFTV @KBelichWFTV

    RT @sheafferlegal: E7 trespassed on courthouse demanding to know how his FB post that disqualified him was made public #zimmermanon9

    Hey E7. Get a lawyer and start suing doxers.

    • ay2z says:

      Wow, will his face be on media tonight?

      • Xena says:

        @ay2z. That might have been the event that convinced Judge Nelson to sequester the jury. It’s one thing to research (out of curiosity) the info that the judge stated, but something else to go so far as to post the personal information to be read by the public.

  162. ay2z says:

    jury consultant is paying attention to him, looking something up with glasses on, now listens again looking at him.

    Bernie gets in Q about ‘book writing etc’ motive, “No Sir”

  163. Yes, he’s a black guy and he’s saying all the right things.

    O’Mara is going to want to get rid of this man for cause, but I doubt he will succeed.

    If the defense uses a peremptory later on, expect Bernie to object based Batson v. Kentucky.

    Make a note of this for future reference.

    It’s likely to be a battle.

    • ay2z says:

      Should be interesting, and defense will dig hard into social media including comments on stories sections.

    • ZCBest says:

      If I was a betting gal I would put it all on the line that you are absolutely correct. I just want a ringside seat to the show.

      • This could be one of those outcome-determinative moments that ultimately decides this case.

        We all have a ringside seat.

        This guy is so well spoken that he could be the foreman. He’s smart and a leader.

    • ZCBest says:

      Again. My money is on you being correct. I am extremely impressed with his presentation. I am not old enough to be his mother but this is a proud mama moment.

  164. Leisa says:

    He sounds intelligent and sensible. Keep going buddy…..

    • Leisa says:

      I just saw this and i got the distinct impression he does not like Fogen.
      “W. KAMAU BELL: George Zimmerman, you are a profiling, vigilante, racist, right-wing, trigger-happy, child-killing coward. I want to rip off your nuts, shove them down your throat, pull them back out your ass, toss them like dice, roll a hard six, pick them back up, put them in a blender, make a nut smoothie, drink it all down, feel refreshed, piss it back out, take off your shirt, wipe it up, wash your shirt on high –oh, it’s gonna shrink – put the shirt on a dog, call that dog a cat, laugh at your cat-dog, drop you both off at a Crip cook-out in Compton!

  165. Xena says:

    “mean spirited.” You got it!!! Especially on Yahoo.

    Zidiots, see what people think about your comments.

  166. ay2z says:

    Did you sometimes look at those comments (yahoo news story on the case)

    Feed went off for me.

  167. ay2z says:

    fogen does not want him, he’s writing notes again)

  168. Xena says:

    GZ has physical reactions when he hears anything that is not in agreement with him. He pursed his mouth when hearing the word “typical.”

  169. ay2z says:

    Photograph, mugshot, the orange ‘jump suit’ Ioops)

    Burgundy type shirt on Trayvon, him smiliing.

    (defense might not like this contrast in impression of the two)

    Good answer on arrest delay.

    Govenor stepped in question– may have felt DA in Sem county dropped ball.

    HOle that against us or Mr. Z? No. FActor in anyway guilt or innocence? No dispute he can be fair.

    Not formed an opinon as to G’s g or i.

    Mews def’ly not get it right all the time. Biased? To me it seeems pendulum changes with newes media, maybe first biased against defendant, then later against deceased.

    Early formed opinioin? No, waiting til come out in court.

    Friends and family talked to him about it, their opinions. Combination, some felt Trayvon situation was tragic or typical in their minds.

    (fogen making notes about free speech comment)

    No opinion on the rally. “We have had thorughout our ihistory, people [expressing themselves] when they felt injustice.”

    He told poeple at the time, that he can’t judge anything until all comes out at trial.

    • cielo62 says:

      ay2z~ the orange shirt that LOOKS like a jumpsuit (ie jail issued jumpsuit). IIRC, that picture was NOT a mug shot.


  170. Nef05 says:

    Shore him up, BDLR. You know O’Mara is going to try to pull “cause” out of this guy. He knows he’ll get an objection to a peremptory challenge.

  171. He’s seen one photograph each of the defendant in a jump suit and TM is a purple shirt.

    Has not formed an opinion about the defendant’s guilt.

    Believes he needs to see all the evidence before he makes up his mind.

  172. dianetrotter says:

    This juror sounds AA, effeminate or possibly gay, accent southern?

  173. ZCBest says:

    Heck yea young black guy…I am liking you so far. Be good now and don’t give them any reason to get rid of you!

  174. Nef05 says:

    Defense is not going to like the Wolfinger “dropped the ball” comment.

  175. Sleuth says:

    Like this guy.

  176. looolooo says:

    Has there been even ONE pj that is an obvious Trayvon supporter?

    I can not accept that NO ONE has ever heard ANYTHING about fogen’s life of crime, deception, lies, drugs, mental instabililty, and general all around fuckupism!

    No one has seen his Mug Shots, and heard of his crimial history? No one has heard that Trayvon had NONE of fogen’s DNA on or around his hands?! Everyone missed that?!

    I said it once and I’ll say it again. Crump, Jackson, and Parks have NOT been effective in regards to getting out the TRUE facts of this case.

    They need to put aside their individual ego’s and hire a more experienced, connected, eloquent, ruthless attorney/spokesperson (who is NOT AA) to take over their talking points/interviews and someone who will SATURATE the airwaves with the EVIDENCE that SHOULD proove that fogen is GUILTY as charged.

    BdlR means well, but IF he has asked the Martin/Fulton’s to have Crump & Co. to stand down, he may be making a disasterous mistake for Trayvon and his family. Look how things are going so far. I NEVER expected such obvious anti-Trayvonism.

    Though it is not impossible for a Sanford jury to render a guilty verdict, it’s seeming more and more probable that it’s not likely.

    I’m really, really worried.

    • Malisha says:

      Remember, all you’re hearing now is the results of the media campaign; BDLR was not allowed to engage in that.

      What comes up next is the battle; BDLR will be fully engaged and the defense can’t risk putting THEIR GUY on the stand!

    • Trained Observer says:

      @looolooo: Fogen’s “all around fuckupism”….that fits to a T.

    • cielo62 says:

      loooolooo~ there was ONE trayvon supporter but he lied that he had never mentioned this case. Shee-it, they found his FB responses on a liberal site!


    • Jun says:

      Look at it this way

      The Fogen gang are psychos

      They all make like 3000 profiles each and spam crap about the Fogen case all day everyday

      At this point, Fogen or Omara can not claim the media was unfair to them, since they used it as a vehicle to smear a victim and be unfair to a victim

      Basically Fogen can’t appeal anything

      Fogen and Omara have motive to lie and have been proven to have been lying quite a few times and I have seen jurors figure that out about the defense and the defendants

  177. Deborah Moore says:

    Bomb, bomb, bomb…
    (Al Sharpton)

  178. Nef05 says:

    Young black guy?

  179. FactsFirst says:

    Black lady… me thinks

  180. Next in the box is G81.

  181. ay2z says:

    She does not characterize the scream as by someone knowing they about to be slaughtered in cold blood.

    Nor does she characterize this as a younger person with a breaking high pitch in the screams, nor compare it to fogen’s exemplar ‘hep me rhonda’ (so to speak)

  182. smokeegyrl says:

    She surely knows a lot. Sometimes it boggles my mind when people know all then says they didn’t form an opinion. mmmm

  183. She’s heard the 911 shriek call. Denies forming an opinion regarding who was screaming for help.

    Defense wants her.

    I don’t trust her.

    • ay2z says:

      that’s my impression too, based on only gut feeling, she’s wanting to do everything right and be food for all, including defense lawyers.

    • Nef05 says:

      I think that’s a good call. I don’t trust her either. I didn’t hear anything overt, but my gut … (call me “Gibbs”).

  184. disappointed says:

    Is she for real? I assumed it was GZ or TM! No shit Sherlock. God help us all.

  185. ay2z says:

    fogen is constantly looking at the PJ.

    She may be a nice lady influenced by images of pot plants, gun in a black hand, cell phone images, that will sway her image in subconscious that will come into play.

    “The shot’ is the main thing she remembers from 911 call, the franticness of caller’s voice and yelling in background.

    Characterizes it as someone in need of help (was that right she says in low voice after that, as if asking West if she’s giving right answer?)

    • ay2z says:

      which one, opinion? “No sir, not at all”

      Who, as seen or heard on channel 13? No.

      “Would you care for any [water]? No thank you”

      What’s this water thing about, they always take water, bot MOM and West, to make a point of ‘we are real nice considerate guys’?

    • Nef05 says:

      Of course everyone’s perception is different, but I never perceived any franticness from the caller (W13?). In fact, I thought she sounded remarkably composed, under the circumstances.

  186. She remembers black people protesting because GZ was not arrested.

    She knows he’s claiming self-defense.

    She says she hasn’t formed an opinion about whether he acted in self-defense.

  187. Nellie Nell says:

    That was not the answer he was looking for in reference to self defense, was it?

  188. parrot says:

    She subscribed to the OS two weeks ago, well after she received the summons and in time for the defense’s flurry of motions containing inadmissible evidence.

  189. ay2z says:

    she just referred to ‘nationalies of the parties’ involved, Trayvon and GZ were BOTH US citizens, both born in USA but only GZ has a second possible ‘nationality’ if he has a Peruvian passport/citizenship..

  190. ay2z says:

    Saw picture blood on back of his head.

    Have you heard anything on news about Trayvon Martin’s background.

    – 17 yres old, came and lived with his father, that his mother was having some trouble, also that pictures on his phone. From news source bs conversatn/.

    Visiting rather than living here? I didn’t know either permanently or not.

    She knows the charater assasination.

    She says she can disregard evidence not in case. Even if you remember, can set it aside so as not to bring it into trial with you?

    Some of hings may be tru and may not be true, sort only courtroom in your decision?

    She says yes.

    (BUT, the defense knows people with best intentions, may not separate those character ideas– the defense wants to know what might key into her memory for character of Trayvon that they can bring out to influence her decision making).

    Impression of demos, reason for them. Protesting because not arrested for “the shooting”. (she does not say killing)

    How did tha tmake her feel? She says ‘no opinion’.

    “let the law take care of it”– she says “she doesnt’ know the details” so doesn’t want to weigh in on anything.

    • cielo62 says:

      dump her. lying to say she doesn’t have an opinion after so many news shows.


    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Her troubles in using Trayvon’s character issues would come during deliberations, if she insisted on using facts that haven’t been put in evidence. Other jurors would remind her that there’s no evidence that Trayvon was being put out, because his mother was having trouble with him. If she tried to use that in making her case with the other jurors, she’d be declawed on that issue. If she kept insisting on using it, my guess is the foreman would have to ask the judge for further instructions.

  191. disappointed says:

    West is an ass.

  192. Leisa says:

    No specific reason but she makes me uneasy…..

    • Leisa says:

      Wait, I do have a reason. How can anyone know all about this case and have absolutely no opinion?

      • Sleuth says:

        Exactly! They only seem to have opinions about things outside their city, i.e Tsusami, Boston, Connecticut, but then again most of these events affected more whites, than AA’s.

        Oh, but we know all too well they have opinions.

      • Sleuth says:

        Exactly! They want us to believe they only have opinions about Connecticut murders, Boston Marathon murders, Tsuami(?), events that affected primarily white people.

  193. She thinks she’s seen 12 news reports about the case.

    Saw a bloody photograph of the back of the defendant’s head. Recalls TM was from Miami, mother was having trouble with him and also remembers the photographs on TM’s phone.

    She apparently believes TM was a thug.

  194. Boyd says:

    I think I just heard Bernie say the trial will be 2-4 weeks instead of 4-6 weeks. No Zimmerman on the stand?

    • Leisa says:

      Both sides got together and trimmed witness lists so they have a better idea of how long it will take.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Plain and simple, Professor can correct me if I’m wrong but, if gz does not take the stand there is no self defense claim. That means that Omar can’t make any such claim in his closing statements.

      In closing statements the attorney’s cannot ask the jurors to assume facts not in evidence. So in closing, if gz doesn’t take the stand, all Omar can do is ask the jury to find his client not guilty, but he won’t be able to give them a reason why they should do so.

      • cielo62 says:

        Lonnie~ That’s how I understand it, too. If he DOESN’T take the stand, there’s no way to claim self defense. If he DOES take the stand, he’ll be grilled over the coals (with many seasonings and a basting sauce) by Bernie.


  195. Leisa says:

    Heard about stuff on Trayvon’s phone. She knows alllll about this case.

  196. disappointed says:

    What? Trayvon’s background. Oh my Lord. Mom was having trouble. Way to go Mark.

  197. Nef05 says:

    Back just in time for West (pours lemonade for everyone; here’s your slice, TO). Reading prior comments I see West is still flipping back and forth into meltdown mode? (sheesh) Sounds like he needs a neuro-psych assessment.

  198. ay2z says:

    Channel 13, is her default. fogen nodes repeatedly and smiles.

  199. I had to run an errand and just got back in time to watch West make a fool out of himself.

    This woman is G66?

  200. fauxmccoy says:

    PJ to west ‘take a deep breath’


  201. ay2z says:

    LOL!! PJ tells Donnie “Take a deep breath!”

    He’s so condescending.

  202. Dave says:

    These people complain as if the rally shut the whole damn town down for a month.

    • ay2z says:

      and the victim is causing all this problem now that would never have happened had he not come to town.

      Wonder if Sanford figures out what this says to visitors to their community, tourists who spend a day or a whole season.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        @ —————————————————–@
        @…..WELCOME TO SANFORD……………@
        @……VISITORS KEEP OUT…………………@

        😆 😀 :-O

  203. ay2z says:

    Donnie el Doro

  204. ic2fools says:

    intersting questions about shellies’ credibility to this pj. hmmm, she just may have become states’ witness with the State after all.

  205. dianetrotter says:

    I wonder if BDLR is asking about Shellie’s credibility because she is going to flip on gz.

    • ic2fools says:

      @dianetrotter just posted same and thinking exactly that.

    • towerflower says:

      I don’t think she is going to flip, if she was she, I don’t think she would have been pleading the 5th during her depo, even when the state said they wouldn’t ask her about her case. I think she is standing behind him, for the time being, because she likes the good life that they have achieved through the donations of others.

  206. disappointed says:

    Once a liar always a liar. See I could never be juror. Way to judgmental.

  207. FactsFirst says:

    It should be illegal for BDLR to be that sexy…. just my thoughts…

    • Xena says:


      It should be illegal for BDLR to be that sexy…. just my thoughts…

      His suits fit him like a Marine’s dress uniform.

      Bernie, Bernie, Bernie. Take me in your arms and rock me baby. 🙂

      • ic2fools says:

        @FactsFirst & Xena

        It should be illegal for BDLR to be that sexy…. just my thoughts…
        His suits fit him like a Marine’s dress uniform.

        Bernie, Bernie, Bernie. Take me in your arms and rock me baby.

        well your comments sure put a big smile on my face, whoowhee Bernie so nice i’ll say it twice Bernie!

  208. Nellie Nell says:

    Interesting that a woman would feel sorry for the grown man that killed a kid!

    • FactsFirst says:

      She’s trippin without luggage and a destination… SMDH… These people are something else…

    • Jun says:

      Ask her how she feels about Manson

    • Sleuth says:

      Yeah, it even caught my attention. It’s amazing, that inspite of the evidence from the ME’s office, which indicate none of the confessed murderer’s dna was found on Trayvon’s hands, that really believe this child brutally attacked him.

      Just amazing.

      • Sleuth says:

        Oooops! The word “that” should be “they”.

      • Nef05 says:

        Very true. On HLN last night they were talking about fogen’s “broken nose” as if it is a fact. Even a black male on their fake jury believed Trayvon attacked fogen, though he believed Trayvon did it in self defense, from the guy following him.

      • towerflower says:

        I sent a couple of emails to HLN after dark about the “broken nose” issue. I asked them to actually read his medical report and he did not have deep lacerations nor is there proof of a broken nose and they needed to stick to the facts.

  209. disappointed says:

    LOL liar liar ShelLie!

  210. Xena says:

    Has anyone seen Junior in court since Monday?

  211. towerflower says:

    Took my son in for a MRI on his shoulder yesterday, on the history form they wanted to know what his race was and his ethnicity was. I asked them why they needed to know that for a MRI. It made no sense to me and I refused to answer them. It wasn’t even for past medical history just past X-ray, MRI, and other scans.

    But missed all of yesterday and this morning….lots to catch up on.

    • Xena says:

      @towerflower. WELCOME BACK!!! Here’s hoping the best for your son.

      • towerflower says:

        He was hit by a wild pitch a couple of years ago during a baseball game in his left shoulder and lately he has been complaining about his shoulder giving out. He has a definite loss of strength compared to his right arm and they are trying to figure out why. Physical Therapy has helped some by making it stronger but it won’t last and still will “give out”. Doctor doesn’t think it is anything real serious but he wants to go into the service and he can’t do more than 40 push ups.

        • Xena says:

          @Towerflower. You son is a brave person to go through an MRI. Even the so-called “open” MRIs give me the blues. Here’s hoping the cause of the weakness is found and healed.

    • cielo62 says:

      towerflower~ THANK YOU! I went to my family clinic for a meds check up. They said they had a “new demographics” section they wanted me to fill out. I asked why, but of course the receptionist has no clue. I listed Race: Human. Left the martial status empty. Spouse said I SHOULD have written in “Would be married if this backwoods state would allow me”. MAYBE, just MAYBE some races have higher statistical averages for some diseases, like diabetes or sickle cell. BUT that should come up in the individual patient history and NOT the front page of the insurance info sheet.


      • towerflower says:

        cielo62, I could understand if it was for medical history because of what you said but it was for past xrays and scans and I’ve never heard how one being black, white, blue, or purple has any difference in how the scans are being done.

  212. ay2z says:

    Under the G– 66

    • ay2z says:

      Woman, found out cast when it happened. Not focused on follow up, tv everymorning for current news. Ues discussed with family. not opinions, no one concluded. She has no opinion on any guilt/innocence. Friedns discuss?– yes, she’s from Chicago, but no opinions from phone calls with friends there.

      Pictures both parties, GZ with head injuries, Trayvon with hoodie on, about it. No opinion of hoodie, GZ felt sorry for him– jury consultant alerted to this and nodded.

      Demos and protests she saw. Picture sof potential evidence in case? Yes– she saw re-enactment.

      Does not always believe what is in news. (not everything believable that you ‘hear)

      Proceedings— not watched. Recordings if any– Yes.

      Heard recording about neighbr, she heard, call police outside and shot. “I did hear it” on tv.

      Conclusions? No sir.

      Demonstrations? yes, protesting downtown Sanford, that’s about it. Case or one side or the other? — re wasn’t arrest at first, ‘thought law would take care of it.” Disruptive? “definitely”

      Can separate she says.

      Money not told to the court… she says. B asks if she can separate it from decision making process? No won’t factor in. she says.

      Wife a witness in this case, would wife be more or less credible if not come into the case? She says yes.

      You felt sorry– did you come to any conclusions about who was culpable in whatever struggle? No. She can separate, ‘yes’.

      No internet searches. Sequester and duration of trial question– no.

    • parrot says:

      These articles written by the professor may help you understand his thoughts.

      What Does Zimmerman’s Blood Tell Us?

      Rain Did Not Wash Away Defendant’s Blood and DNA in Trayvon Martin Murder Case

      A little can be garnished about DNA from:

      Trayvon Martin’s Killer Trolls for More Dollars by Offering to Sell his Signed Autograph

  213. disappointed says:

    Why does Fogen wear bullet proof vest but no tactical helmet? Does he think a potential hit man will only aim for chest?

    • ay2z says:

      my thoughts exactly,his head has swollen physically and is set up well above the back of his chair.

      I think it’s more a defense perception of poor target on chest defendant than any practical reason inside court

    • Dave says:

      Why does he need a personal bodyguard in a courtroom heavily guarded by armed sheriff’s deputies?

    • Jun says:

      I said that a lot of times

      Honestly, if someone was tryna off him, they’d just shoot him in the head or neck area, his arms, or legs

    • Tzar says:

      what I would pay for him to sit in court with a tactical helmet…

  214. disappointed says:

    Hopefully we can get 5 done this afternoon. Probably could if West understood NO.

  215. ay2z says:

    In honour of PJ last:

  216. Nef05 says:

    Good afternoon everyone. Figures I got here just at the beginning of lunch recess. I thought they’d be on their way back to court for the afternoon by now. Guess I have time to get a couple chores done before settling in for the afternoon.

    Be back in a few, with an ice cold pitcher of fresh squeezed lemonade…

  217. Ty Flair says:

    I know West was thinking boy I love this guy he’s speaking my language.

  218. Deborah Moore says:

    Taking this opp to get out of the house for a bit.
    (But, I got quite a lot accomplished in the kitchen.
    I’ve should have done this years ago.
    Enjoy the break, everyone.

  219. I don’t think Judge Nelson is likely to keep this fool around for the next round.

    Recess until 1:40 pm.

  220. ay2z says:

    Recess til 1:40 EST

  221. Sleuth says:

    Breathe in………….breathe out…..Whoa! That sure was a doozey.

  222. Wendie Dox says:

    so funny.. i didnt get a bad impression at all….
    but thats why we all react differently to people, i guess.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Was on a conference call and admittedly listening with half an ear to bits and pieces, but I didn’t find him as offensive as many posters here. … just goes to show. (Will review this session on tape later, if for no other reason than to get a better look at West grabbing a chew of whatever that was from his pocket.)

  223. dianetrotter says:

    It’s better to be quiet and thought a fool that to speak and remove every speck of doubt.

  224. ay2z says:

    He assumes if race doesnt’ come up in trial, then he thinks “neither side would think it is noteworthy.”

    MOM tries to have him clarify as to what he was really asking. Leave it outside the trial?

    What makeup your heritage?

    • PiranhaMom says:

      Re: “The Lopez were descended from the Spanish friar and silversmith Don Francisco Lopez, originally from Granada, in the Andalusian region of Spain. Together with Fray Salustiano Buz, he arrived by way of Acapulco to build Roman Catholic missions in the island provinces of Samar and Leyte.”

      Friar Francisco had descendants?

      No vow of chastity?

  225. gbrbsb says:

    That’s two races if I got it right (German, Filipino, Chinese and Spanish), caucasian and asian.

    • Sleuth says:


    • parrot says:



      Christina Aguilera?
      Roberto Clemente?
      King Juan Carlos?
      Celia Cruz?
      Alberto Fujimori?
      Benito Juarez?
      Salma Hayek?

      • ay2z says:

        Imelda Marcos?

      • Jun says:

        people from “Spain” is spanish, so basically white people

      • ay2z says:

        George Zimmerman’s driving hazards?

      • abbyj says:

        parrot, Isn’t Christina Aguilera part Ecuadorian, not Spanish, per se?

        • parrot says:

          She is not a Spaniard, true.

          She can’t be Spanish because Spanish is a language.

          My point is that the race of people of Hispanic heritage can be black, white, asian or mixed.

      • ay2z says:

        Ok, so he could be Spanish heritage depending on whether he is related to Imelda Marcos.

        (phillipines has a rich Roman Catholic heritage)

        Marcos was born in Manila, Philippines. Her paternal ancestors were wealthy, landed and prominent, and claimed to have founded the town of Tolosa, Leyte.

        The Lopez were descended from the Spanish friar and silversmith Don Francisco Lopez[disambiguation needed], originally from Granada, in the Andalusian region of Spain. Together with Fray Salustiano Buz, he arrived by way of Acapulco to build Roman Catholic missions in the island provinces of Samar and Leyte.

        This is from wiki, and he doesn’t think Wiki, though he uses it as a research source, is not reliable.

      • parrot says:

        “Spanish” is a language, not a race. All the above spoke/speak Spanish.

        Spain was inhabited for 800 years by the Moors and invaded by Germanic tribes among many other peoples over the centuries.
        They are not all white or caucasian.

        BTW, Benito Juarez was full blooded Zapoteco, the Mexican Abraham Lincoln. One of the greatest presidents in the history of Mexico. He learned to speak Spanish when he was about 12. Magnificent writer and orator.
        This is what he looked like:

      • gbrbsb says:


        Not sure I understand your reply to me here “Spanish” or your comment below when you say:

        Spanish is not a race


        I never said Spanish was a race but a nationality and a language, and I think I should know having lived in Spain for nigh on 40 years. What I said was that the PJ, by his own description, was a mix of 2 races, i.e.

        Spanish & German = caucasian
        Filipino & Chinese = asian

        I don’t know what you are questioning with your list of “famosos” either. At a guess (I have never heard of some of them) the only Spanish person in there is King Juan Carlos. And I can’t speak for the rest, as I have never taken an interest in their ancestry, but I have studied the Spanish monarchy and I do know that King Juan Carlos is 100% caucasian. Indeed his ancestral line is the, or at least one of the, oldest in Europe, traceable back to the marauding Visigoths some 1500 years ago, and even were his ancestors not ALL descendent from the caucasian peoples of europe, which they ALL are, i.e. Germanics and Latins, (Latin speakers NOT Latin Americans!), I don’t see someone’s racial heritage can be dubious on the basis of a mixture so many centuries ago, even thought that would be perfect for my way of thinking which is we should be one big melting pot anyway!

        PS Could it be you are confusing the terms, Spanish and Spaniard ?

        • parrot says:

          No, I’m not confused.

          I am referencing (as you pointed out) what this PJ said when he said he had “Spanish” in his lineage. Here in the US, Bolivians, Mexicans, Cubans, Spaniards, etc, etc, are all called “Spanish” when the only thing “Spanish” about them is the language they speak and certain aspects of their cultural heritage.
          I, personally, think that labels are too simplistic to convey the complexity of this issue. To illustrate:
          Benito Juarez had a masterful command of Spanish and lead a major Latin American country, Mexico. People here in the US would say that the Juarez, the President of Mexico was “Spanish”. The fact is he was full blooded Zapoteco, and although he assimilated splendidly with the Mexican ruling class, his cultural heritage was Zapoteco.

          (BTW, not all the Spanish/Spaniards are Caucasian).

          • gbrbsb says:

            I understand better now, but wouldn’t that simply be ignorance by those who use the term “Spanish” to refer to natives or nationals of any country other than Spain.

            Interesting, I was always under the impression that in the US you referred to the peoples of south and central America as Hispanics, and not because they spoke Spanish but because of their origins in “Hispania” (the Roman term for the Iberian Peninsula), so if the term is used due language, IMO that is a misnomer, as not every South and Central American country is Spanish speaking because Brazil speaks Portuguese.

            I personally use the term “Latin American”, as both Spanish and Portuguese are Romance/Latin languages so IMO it fits well. IIRC it is also the most used in Spain where they also try to distinguish between those of indigenous, mixed (mestizo), or Spanish origin.

            In respect of your “BTW”, sorry but I have to disagree with you there, Parrot. Native Spanish/Spaniards are ALL caucasian. Even if you were going with the Basque polemic, recent DNA studies confirm they are European, some of the most ancient, and not from further afield as had at times been theorised due to their peculiar language.

            Or perhaps you are referring to the Moors and Jews that occupied the greater part of the Iberian peninsula for centuries? But, although a common mistake, it is incorrect, as both moors (Muslim arabs and berbers) and Jews (Sephardi) all come under the caucasian umbrella the same as the other ethnic groups native to the North of Africa, and even if you were taking a view that the berbers were not caucasian, as history would have it, the Moors were not a “mixing” culture, rather a “live and let live” one, which ties in with recent genetic studies that show a very low percentage of their genetic legacy in the Spanish population.

          • parrot says:

            Thanks for your interesting reply.
            Yes, I think it’s a combination of ignorance as well as our tendency to simplify things for ease of reference. Even well-educated people will do it. To illustrate:
            A professor of nutrition at a university on the East Coast once told me categorically that she didn’t like “Spanish” food. Her husband, a lawyer, for whom I had worked as a judiciary interpreter, had asked me to help his wife, the professor of nutrition, to cook something of my ethnic background for a dinner party consisting of people from his law firm and the client they represented at the time, a CEO of a major agricultural company.
            I knew that what SHE meant by “Spanish” is Mexican food. I didn’t try to explain anything; I just proceeded to make my arroz con codorniz and flan.
            That’s why when this PJ said he had “Spanish” heritage; I sensed he did not mean Spain.
            Now regarding Jews, Moors etc.:
            One of my college professors of Spanish lit was a “sefardita” of the ones who migrated to Greece in the late 15th century. (She spoke Spanish with an accent that had evolved very little from how her ancestors spoke Spanish when they emigrated—it was fascinating to hear her!). She is white.
            Light skinned as well as dark skinned moors are depicted in ancient paintings. Do you know if dark-skinned Spaniards of Moorish ancestry exist to this day in Spain? I ask because I don’t know.
            The picture is complex. That’s why I don’t think being a Spaniard/Spanish is equal to being Caucasian, although I’ll grant you that a majority have this phenotype in Spain. The genetic studies you quote indicate that there is a small mix. But I specifically had a black Spaniard, Concha Buika, in mind. Her roots are in New Guinea, but she is a Spanish national as well.
            Genetic studies are interesting. I’m not against them. IMO, it dispels the notion of national genetic/racial purity, but I do fear what people in power can do with it in terms of policy. (I know that this is separate and apart of what we’re exploring about what “Spanish” means.).
            A quote by a leader (a priest) of the Mexican war of independence, Jose María Morelos, that appears on a 50 peso Mexican bill summarizes what, in my opinion, is ideal for political purposes. “Que la esclavitud se proscriba para siempre y lo mismo la distinción de castas, quedando todos iguales, y SÓLO DISTINGUIRÁ A UN AMERICANO DE OTRO EL VICIO Y LA VIRTUD.”
            This is the equivalent of MLK’s aspiring that his “four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.”
            Think of Gandhi.
            Leaders of different cultures and walks of life coming to the same universal truth …

          • gbrbsb says:

            A bit delayed, but I’m afraid I still have to disagree, Parrot. In my books being Spanish/Spaniard IS being caucasian.

            Different authors give different nuances on race, and much is being superseded by DNA studies and PC, but as far as I can see all coincide that the caucasoid umbrella covers various subgroups, one the Mediterranean. Definitions note caucasians as indigenous to Europe, North Africa and Western Asia, having white to brown skin, straight to curly blonde to black hair, and light to dark eyes. (There are also some physical characteristics attached but which are only used today in limited situations, interestingly forensics is one, as they are considered pejorative and/or racial, but for the Mediterranean subgroup they include an aquiline nose)

            The Spanish, IMO, fit all of these. From my experience, the darkest are no darker than Jews or Arabs, i.e. “olive”, complexion (can be “swarthy” if out in the sun too much!), and the lightest are as fair as the proverbial English rose. In my 40 odd years living in Spain, with ten prior to that spending holidays there, I have never met, seen or heard of a black Spaniard except if nationalised via marriage, immigration, etc. (I spent years during the 70s to 90s frequenting Jazz and Reggae bars and gigs and apart from Cubans and other Latin Americans or US military, not one do I recall!)

            IMO, the same as Spike Lee is Afro American, Concha Buika, would be Afro Español. A term I have never heard in Spain, probably due to the de minimis percentage of those of African descent even living there, at least up until the last decade, but which after the immigration explosion caused by the last economic boom, has still left blacks living in Spain at 1.5% of the population which includes the more common Latin American and Caribbean immigrants of black heritage.

            Further, my parents had holiday homes and businesses in Spain from when I was 12; my dad on the Costa Blanca, (i.e. Valencia), my mum on the Costa del Sol, (Andalucia), the most significant areas of Moorish occupation and influence. I have not only travelled extensively all over Spain and Portugal but extensively around the Maghreb (Marrocco, Algeria and Tunis), and, albeit mainly in Madrid, I have lived in three other provinces; Valencia, Andalucía, and Barcelona, so it at least gives me some visual knowledge and not even in the Maghreb have I seen any Maghrebis that count as unequivocally black, and you have to go south to the area of the Tuareg to find much darker and even they are mostly olive with blacks in a minority, and from genetic studies it appears are the result of the mixing of both Southern and Northern Africans.

            According to the history I studied, the Arabs and Berbers that occupied Spain were from the North of Africa, both of the caucasian group. It is known both sets of invaders brought with them black slaves and/or servants from sub Saharan Africa, as well as some soldiers, (I am not sure whether kidnapped or mercenaries), but the advanced society that came to settle once the army had secured the lands and moved on to invade and secure others, were from my information, caucasian. And any blacks there were among them left no visible heritage of their presence, nor it appears from recent studies, any DNA proof of their presence either.

            You would have to point me to the ancient “paintings” with dark and light skinned moors. Except for Persian miniatures and some book and/or manuscript illumination, Muslim art is rarely figural for religious limitations, and surely why they had time to perfect the very complex calligraphic, geometric and arabesque ornamentation they applied to everything, delight and inspiration of graphic artists and illustrators as myself, even today. Muslim illustrations I have seen show the moors as light skinned, with only very few dark skinned humans depicted, most servants, slaves, or soldiers.

            What I call “paintings” would have to be by Spanish and/or other European artists at the time of or after the expulsion. I am sure there must be some but I can’t recall specific examples just now, but most Spanish “artists” (they were not “artists” as today but political and religious servants under orders) of the time were from their art tied up “plugging” Christianity as the new and only religion. But as the Spanish say, “La historia lo escriben los vencedores”, so if not servants, slaves or soldiers, it could be “artists” depicted under “orders” darker Moors to distinguish them from natives, or to appear more ominous and/or foreign so as to fit the politics of the day, i.e. to quickly enforce unity and order under one religion and ruler to a land that under Moorish occupation was thriving and prosperous multi cultural and multi religious society, but before which had been a bickering group of small ones; as well as to bleach from memory not only the Moorish creators of the prosperous and advanced society, but also the Moriscos, (natives who had freely converted to Islam and adopted Moorish systems), which they did by expelling hundreds of thousands of them even after they had been forcibly converted back to Christianity, in part to insulate the new Kingdom from a possible fifth column hankering after the good old days.

            Interestingly, to right this wrong, there are moves to award those who able to show Moriscan descendence, Spanish nationality after a shorter than usually required, period of residency. Sephardi Jews were awarded this several years ago but since last year can now claim Spanish nationality without ever having been resident.

            Hope this is readable and/or useful, and that we can agree to disagree if the case, but we do absolutely agree with the idea that: SÓLO DISTINGUIRÁ A UN AMERICANO DE OTRO EL VICIO Y LA VIRTUD, albeit I might substitute “Americano” for, “UN SER HUMANO” !

            BTW – Ghandi has been one of my most admired human beings since I was 14, (a favourite quote; “An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind”)

          • parrot says:

            “SÓLO DISTINGUIRÁ A UN AMERICANO DE OTRO EL VICIO Y LA VIRTUD, albeit I might substitute “Americano” for, “UN SER HUMANO” !

            Don Jose Maria Morelos, if he were alive today, would say “¡Amén!”

            Check this out for some ancient art depicting black moors:

            Abrazos, amiga–¡Ya quisiera yo conocer tantos pueblos de España como tú!

          • parrot says:

            I forgot to add that it’s true that the word “Hispanics” is also used in the US for Spanish speakers. You’ve made me pause about Brazilians, though. I wouldn’t refer to a Brazilian as Hispanic, but come to think of it, Portugal is an Iberian country (Hispania) as well.
            Latin America is fine with me also, although I’m aware that it excludes the native indigenous languages (of no Latin provenance) some of which are co-official languages in the parts of the countries where they are spoken. (Quechua and Aymara in Peru, for example)
            No es fácil.

          • fauxmccoy says:


            parrot, what you say about the use of the term ‘spanish’ to describe various nationalities who speak spanish seems to be true for the east coast, i have heard it often. puerto ricans and cubans can be called ‘spanish’ as is anyone from mexico, central america, south america and spain.

            this is not true for the west coast and up to the rockies, we typically do not use the term ‘spanish’ to describe anyone who is not from spain. perhaps our history having been spanish then mexican land not so long ago as well as our general proximity to mexico/central america makes it different. the words ‘hispanic’ or ‘latino/latina’ or even ‘mestizo’ are what are commonly used. mestizo refers specifically to the mixed heritage of native tribes and europeans (spaniards). ‘spanish’ could describe food or architecture of spanish (european) origin and ‘spaniard’ would be a european from spain.

          • gbrbsb says:

            I forgot I had a direct link and posted an “@Faux” reply to your comment about what makes you “cringe”. Don’t know if you will get notification of it but it’s near the end of this sam thread.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            will attempt to find gbrbsb, but the thread is huge, so could be problematic.

      • parrot says:


        Interesting comment. You jogged my memory.

        As a military brat, I lived in El Paso, and I don’t remember anybody there ever using “Spanish” indiscriminately to apply to anyone Hispanic. The reason they don’t makes sense.
        So, I think you’re right, that this indiscriminate use is mostly on the East Coast.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @parrot — i won’t lie, hearing the word ‘spanish’ to describe anything outside of spain much less people from various parts of the world makes me cringe. it would be laughed at in my neck of the woods and even the hispanics wouldn’t have a clue as to the reference.

      • gbrbsb says:


        @parrot — i won’t lie, hearing the word ‘spanish’ to describe anything outside of spain much less people from various parts of the world makes me cringe.

        Me too Faux. In fact to hear it is being used like that actually pains me because the Spanish are very different to Latin Americans who are the creators of their own rich and colourful culture even if with a lot of Spanish heritage mixed in. It would be like calling “English” all you lot over there !

        • cielo62 says:

          gbrbsb~ ENGLISH! In America we haven’t spoken English for YEARS!


          • gbrbsb says:


          • cielo62 says:

            gbrbsb~ thought you might like that!  LOL!  I say it all the time, when I’m mourning the death of the adverb.


          • gbrbsb says:

            Cielo, you made me remember. An Argentinean part works producer I freelanced with produced a popular English course for the BBC which they marketed also in the US and which was selling fabulously. At a party the BBC CEO, (old boy public school type), came over to congratulate him saying: “That’s right, my boy, we’ll finally teach them to speak proper English” not realising that the ones buying it were the Hispanics !

          • cielo62 says:

            gbrbsb~ LOL! Yep “Ingles sin Barreras” VERY popular!


        • fauxmccoy says:


          oh, i do envy the time you have spent and places lived in that region. i love it, hope to move there myself if i can convince the husband (who does not speak the language, although he’s of hispanic heritage). nice to hear you agree with me regarding the use of the word ‘spanish’ 🙂

          i was really struck by how some words that are commonly used in my native california were used in spain, but to signify different things. the word that i remember most clearly was ‘tortilla’. it seems so obvious to me, that when the spaniards arrived in mexico that they saw natives prepare a food that looked similar to their own egg dish ‘tortilla’ and the name stuck, although a mexican tortilla and a spanish tortilla are very different.

  226. SoulSistaWoo! says:

    OK Everyone… can we agree that each time he talks about the “people” who complain, don’t know what they are talking about or don’t know the facts…
    He is saying blacks are always complaining and don’t know what they are talking about.

    This case….*SMH*

    • Tzar says:

      I was there 30 minutes ago
      he is cryptic about his racism and manipulative about his views
      this guy would be a real cancer in the jury

  227. disappointed says:

    Everyone assumes racism is involved. Okay I am walking away cause this guy is a total moron and he is killing my brain cells.

  228. MrSykes says:

    Okay get this guy out of here. Insensitive to racial issues because he never has to deal with racism. NEXT!

    • abbyj says:

      MrSykes, Agreed. He appears very insensitive to racial undercurrents in the culture, and almost implies that people tend to attach “race” to conflicts that have nothing to do with race. He has obviously lived either a very charmed life, OR has existed in a cocoon of complete denial for his entire life. There is no part of American culture that is not affected by race, ethnicity, and gender, and yet this guy thinks it premature to deduce that from obvious and systemic acts of aggression against non-whites. He’s either sooo stooopid or lying his butt off. Or both.

  229. ay2z says:

    He says he’s mixed race or ideas are mixed race? Self-centered, if it doesnt matter to him, “it doesn’t seem to make sense” to him.

    He sounds like he’s answering test questions.

    • ay2z says:

      and assumes protestors in general, don’t know what they are protesting about, neither does he, so discounts their positiion instead of learning about it.

      Assumes “those people” have no position worthwhile. Assumes whatever position they have, is of no consequence to him anyway, even if he knew what that position was.

      Assumes protestors have no foundation to protest because they don’t know what they protest is right, anyway.

      Assumes that the only think that is important, is what affects voting, if it’s not in the context of voter issues, then it’s not any consequence.

      He won’t like make decisions in this case that don’t affect him.

  230. dianetrotter says:

    Did he just say “anybody who wasn’t white?”

  231. disappointed says:

    Weird stuff happens in Florida? Nah just ignorant baby/child killers.

  232. fauxmccoy says:

    oh dear god, he’s teaching our children — we’re all screwed!

  233. ay2z says:

    He wants to be on the jury, being careful not to disqualify himself?

    Gun law SD law. (he doesn’t remember protestors now, as points related to this case Question.)

    He was surprised to find out that this was in florida?

  234. Leisa says:

    Jury deliberation would take months if this guy is in there.

  235. disappointed says:

    Banged my head on my desk and he still is making zero sense to me. Has anyone picked up on anything remotely intelligent?

  236. Sleuth says:

    They know this guy is not sober, why do they continue to question him. Can they flat out ask him if he’s sober? I think at one point they were.

    Not saying he’s drunk or high, but he’s trying to come down off something.

  237. dianetrotter says:

    He don’t know nothing but nothing which makes him smarter than everyone else. Vacuous narcissist.

  238. ay2z says:

    SYS, Self defense, Castle doctrine… MOM asks what he knows about.
    He looked up purposefully, might have done it re this case, maybe coulda.

    He is evasive, doesn’t remember anything that he read about the SYG law in florida, not even that there might be something particular about the florida SYG law.

    • ay2z says:

      Says used Wiki’, so not reliable source. He doth protested too much?

    • abbyj says:

      ayxz, He was about as vague as one could get, don’t you think? Well, he “heard” of Castle Doctring, and he “may” have looked it up, but he really doesn’t “remember” anything. Sure. Sure. I also took notice of his statement that he was interested in unusual legal happenings and tended to follow them, so he “may not” have looked up Castle Doctrine in regard to the Trayvon Martin case. Sure. Sure.. What a liar this guy is, trying to paper over his real point of view so that he can slip in under the wire.

  239. Tzar says:

    This is an unemployed PJ who does not discuss this national case with anyone online or otherwise?

    the Boston bombing does not affect him
    OK this guy is nuts

    this guy probably does not care at all about jelly
    “I don’t even like jelly. I don’t even like jelly. I get hives if I even look at jelly. I don’t even know about jelly. what is jelly? I don’t even care.”

  240. fauxmccoy says:

    defense has brought up ‘self defense’ to everyone this morning, whether the pj mentioned it or not. do not like!

    • gbrbsb says:

      I can’t say I’m surprised. From how I recall it MOM has made noises of late that it will be the last minutes of the struggle on which he is resting his case.

  241. Deborah Moore says:

    Lunch break can’t come too soon for me.

  242. SearchingMind says:

    This PJ a very bad philosopher and is disturbingly apathetic.

  243. He has no regard for death. It doesn’t effect him.

  244. Boyd says:

    The Boston marathon bombing has no impact in my life. wow!
    get him out of here so he can attend his birthday party.

  245. ay2z says:

    did he say ‘that’s a poison they take.”??

    About protestors protesting about something worth protesting about.

    (He doesnt’ think they can know they are absolutely right, protestors can’t know if they are really right? Sore arse he must have.)

    If he thinks this way about protestors, will he think this way about witnesses and about his co-jurors opinions during deliberation? Those jurors have to decide on evidence that is not 100% and that seems to be with what he wants. Absolute and clear..

    He doesn’t think ANYTHING in the news effects him personally, including the Boston bombing. Only things that matter is ‘voting’.

    PJ’s not a big picture guy, is he?

  246. I would challenge this guy for cause because he is a self-centered asshole.

    (Yes, I’ve actually done that before in court)

    • ay2z says:

      LOL!! A self-centered asshole with a “sore arse”.

    • Boyd says:

      he he he. good choice of words. Seating a jury is hard stuff.

      • Jun says:

        No one really wants to do it… in a perfect world, there would be no more violence, therefore no more need for juries and deliberations… but it is what it is…

    • fauxmccoy says:

      amen brother!

      (ps — sent you an email last night, no hurries)

    • Tzar says:

      did it work? because we should send Bernie a text or tweet 🙂

    • RobertSF says:

      Ha, ha, ha! I’m finding him supremely annoying, and I’d hate to work with him because of his speech mannerisms, but you seem to really dislike him. What did he do?

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Okay, I’ve found and added day 5 to the video playlist. What day was crazy lady on? I was listening but somehow missed her. Day 3?

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @ Lonnie,

          Terrific that you are doing this. Quality and sound are great. There appears to be a gap between the last 2 reports. Id like to see Bernie’s interview of the young black teacher (don’t know for certain he is a teacher, but he’s part of the educational establishment).


          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Professor Fred,

            Re PJ G-81; The video with Bernie’s interview is not included (or I couldn’t locate it.)

            Any advice?

          • Don’t know.

            Where did you look?

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Hang tight, when I’m finished the mail I’m going to hunt down and create a comprehensive playlist of all witness vids I can find. I’ll probably have to join work from several posters, but I think I’ll get’er done, I’ll post back when I do.

          • cielo62 says:

            Lonnie- you are TREMENDOUS! Thank you! An archive of how justice gets done (for the layperson).

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            You’re quite welcomed and thanks. I’ve got the “bat” lady up (she isn’t quite as bats as she sounds, but she doesn’t seem to realize that she’s formed her “steadfast” opinions around news that was nothing but lies. It’s hard to convince some people that the media lies through their teeth, does so very easily and without a conscious thought about the terrible consequences for the people they’re lying about, or for the bad condition they leave their viewer in.

            Talking heads are totally worthless sources of news and I cut them off whenever and where ever they appear. Things are so bad they even lie about the weather forecasts. Especially when there are gains to be made by making some politician look heroic and prepared.

            Oh well, here are the pj vids that AxiomAmnesia is missing:
            B12, B30, E7, E75, K80, K95, N18, B34, G14, G87,H6
            Hopefully they will be found in their day 1 to 5 vids, which I’ll go after later.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            He would be on day 5
            Just start the video and cursor down to the bottom right rollover buttons, the left most one is the playlist control, click it and up pops a small picture index of every video in the play list with scroll buttons on the left and right ends. Find the day you want and click it, that day will start playing.

            To skip dead time (which the poster included), put your cursor on the bottom red line and move it to the right, you’ll see thumbnails pop up, so you can click and advance past the dead spaces.

          • PiranhaMom says:


            Day 5 = the last two vids, right? I viewed them twice.

            First part of G-81 (w/Bernie) is not there.

            Something missing?

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Yes, I just learned that posters to youtube, who are following the trial are not as fastidious as I had believed they were, they’ve left out different things. So now I’m going to have to go through them one at a time to collect a complete series. Professor has given me juror numbers to look for, that will be a big help. Trouble is only a few posters have titled their vids by the jurors they contain, most are doing it either by date, day or juror nos. and missing parts because they’re away from their computers.

            They should have learned about the windows scheduler, which you can use to set programs to start and run unattended, even when you can’t be there. Of course, there could also be screw ups as well, but at least there a chance when you can’t be there. Oh well. More work for me.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Lonnie –

            I was going to say “you’re a real workhorse, Lonnie!”

            That’s not good enough. You’re a true warrior!

            Thanks, Lonnie.

        • I believe she may be E81, the third PJ questioned on Thursday morning (Day 4).

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            OH GOSH!!! I finally get around to playing day 4 and notice that the author only picked up 30 minutes of day 4, so I had to go get Trent Sawyers Day 4 and 5. Now I’ll have to check to see if the other days are full days as well. Ahhh… just when you thought things would be easy! Oh well. Next I’ll look for some replacements for the play list that don’t have comments. But that will take a while. At least Trent turned the sound up. 😆

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @ Lonnie,

            Thanks for he intensity of your work!
            This is really important.
            Know you’ll deliver.

            A thousand thanks!

          • cielo62 says:

            P-Mom~ If he’s delivering, should we give him a tip?


          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Okay, I’ve gotten Trent Sawyers videos and I’ve also got AxiomAmnesia, both on playlists. The AxiomAmnesia sound
            isn’t as good as Trent’s but no commentary.

            At least now I’ve got the whole thing. Just browse for the video you prefer.

    • abbyj says:

      Good morning, Fred, and thanks for the great comments.

      So, I had to laugh and then ask you: how do you challenge a guy in court for being a self-centered asshole? What do you say to the court? “This gentleman is an exercise in the most extreme form of solipsism to the degree that it involves his organ of elimination”??

    • Malisha says:

      It’s the UNcentered assholes that bother ME the most.

  247. Sleuth says:

    He’s thinks, but he’s not really thinking. Hook him up with a drug counselor. What matters to him on this Friday afternoon is Happy Hour!

  248. Rachael says:

    Did he have a little too much coffee this morning?

  249. Tzar says:

    OMara is trying to save him from himself

    Basically he is saying Trayvon was not worth protesting over, the lack of arrest was not worth protesting over

    • Jun says:

      Well, whatever he feels, it is a basic constitutional right, for citizens and visitors of the US

      But to be honest, the recent self defense cases in Arizona and Florida are not putting those two states in a good light, so probably not going to be a lot of visitors to the 2 states till the outcome of the trials

      I would not be surprised if people start moving out of those states

      but if the state does a good job, then it will make people feel more welcome

    • abbyj says:

      X2, Tzar. That comment about people protesting “before they even know if they’re right” [paraphrase] was chilling. It certainly sent a signal that he thinks protests are worthless, and that would include the protests on behalf of Trayvon.

    • Malisha says:

      Dumb NOT “as a rock” but as an absent non-mineral rock that is irrelevant besides.

  250. Trying to find out what matters to this dude is like trying to guess what’s inside an empty sack.

    There is no substance.

    No there, there.

  251. Tzar says:

    “to me I think there is no need to be a protester when there is nothing worth protesting about”

    he is done

  252. type1juve says:

    Even the jury consultant looks confused.

  253. smokeegyrl says:

    thinking this JP has some mental issues or is on medications.

  254. Good grief, why can’t he get it out? Now that’s annoying!

  255. Sleuth says:

    I think both parties will send him home today or to rehab. Using words he doesn’t know the meaning of.

  256. Boyd says:

    Why won’t MOM or BDLR just tell the kid you don’t make any sense.

  257. Leisa says:

    I don’t know what this guy’s deal is…..

    • RobertSF says:

      I know I’m jumping to conclusions, but his speech mannerisms remind me of people who think they’re a lot smarter than they really are. And to come across as smart, they go on endless stuttering monologues.

      • gbrbsb says:

        Demonstrated by his changing the correct term, stereotype for… archetype !!! ???

      • SoulSistaWoo! says:

        I think you have hit the nail on the head…

        He thinks having involvement in politics / political awareness makes intellectually superior… especially to those who protest.

        What a jerk!

  258. ay2z says:

    Stereotype as example of a ‘bro’ or ‘hipster’, attached to some type of character, archetype, but he doesn’t actually know anyone who actually fits the stereotype.’

    MOM– is Trayvon Martin an archetype?

    • ay2z says:

      PJ says they don’t reflect reality.

      But MOM asks him about protestors in context with the case. PJ says — There has to be something worth protesting over, he doesn’t know how to id what needs protesting, pj doesn’t know answer this.

      He knows something about arrest not right away.

      MOM would you hold it against protesters?

      PJ “they were completely irrelevant.”

    • Malisha says:

      You know, “Trayvon-like dudes with their pants down.”

  259. MrSykes says:

    Okay what is this guy getting at with the archetype talk?

  260. type1juve says:

    Protesters is code for black people.

  261. Sleuth says:

    It should be against the law to continue to question a pj who is obviously under the influence of something.

  262. fauxmccoy says:

    according to HLN court reporter: G63 just leaned forward toward Mark O’Mara. Subtle but it tells u g63 views him favorably.


    • parrot says:

      I wondered if he may be actually pro State and is shrewdly trying to hide it.

      Now that I learn that he’s leaning towards O’Mara, I find it unlikely that he’s pro State.

      Body language doesn’t lie.

    • Sleuth says:

      He’s not leaning forward toward O’Dirty because he favors him, he’s coming off a binge.