Thursday, June 6, 2013
Good morning:
Judge Nelson set aside today and tomorrow for a Frye hearing regarding the admissibility of expert testimony about the death shriek and a hearing on the defense motion for sanctions and a judicial inquiry into alleged discovery violations by the State.
Not sure which order she plans to hear these motions, but I am sure we will find that out when the hearing starts in about 25 minutes @ 9 am EDT.
Here is a link to the livestream:
http://wildabouttrial.com/george-zimmerman-live-stream.html
Comment below.
Due to inclement weather, Crane and I have decided not to take our computers with us on our trip to TN for a doctor’s appointment. We will be with you for the first 1.5 hours and catch up with you later after we return.
Peace
Frederick Leatherman Law Blog 
Well ya’ll after midnight here, time for me to wrap it up. Need extra shut eye and in morning eat a lighter breakfast.
So at Skeletor Time I won’t doze off waking up looking stoopid wiping drool off my arm! :p
Good night everybody, rest well see you guys in the morning
FROM THE SLEEPING QUARTERS OF IC2
@ic2
ic u tomorrow — same skeletor time, same skeletor channel 🙂
i’ll get that caffeine drip started early and we’ll get you a bib … mmmmk?
night night sweetpea
big azz grinn gotcha too same skeletor time, same skeletor channel
me screaming in laughter caffeine drip you ain’t wrong ahahahahahahaa.
thanks for reminding to get a bib!
b4 i get to bed i’m changing my gravatar to no more skeletor:
his long azz breaths between words sure as hell blew out my gravatar candle, lol lol lol
Skeletor I thought only dogs were sensitive to high pitched sound.
JN just checked him again, he is so disrespectful of her. Determined to do what he wants to do, it ain’t happen today Sparky.
I will using Sparky to refer to West slow azz…
Actually, the screaming stops with the shot… then there is a tiny little YOWWW kind of sound. I think THAT was GZ, when the hot casing hit his nose (the spot on the right the butterfly bandage didn’t over).
They still obviously have no expert who’s willing to get on that stand, be qualified, undergo the voir dire, and then testify that:
(a) the terrorized scream was Fogen; or that (b) Fogen was screaming “Help me Help me” while Trayvon Martin said words to the effect of, “you’re gonna die tonight mo****f**ker.”
So they got someone who would say that the amount of scream that could be isolated was too small to form any valid opinion about. He did, however, validate the METHODOLOGIES. HAHAHA!!
That’s like getting someone who would not say that the DNA test itself is not valid for court, or that a drop of blood contained DNA belonging to a person other than the killer or victim, but who said that “this drop of blood was too small to be really sure about anything” Does not invalidate anything.
Reich can say that he got enough of a sample to come to the conclusions to which he came. Certainly there’s no argument that he can use the techniques that he did use. Also, there is no magic number such as “less than five seconds’ isolated screaming cannot be analyzed.” Would it have been better if he had a full eight seconds of Trayvon’s terrified scream? Perhaps, but after all Fogen shot him before he could get out that last five seconds of screaming, didn’t he?
It can be logically proven that the scream was not Fogen because Fogen testified that he did not know that he had actually HIT Trayvon Martin with that bullet he fired. Therefore, he would not have had any reason to stop screaming after firing — since he told the police that he continued to be afraid of Trayvon Martin even after he had fired the shot.
New post up:
If I were the judge l would admit expert opinion evidence regarding who uttered the death shriek
As I listen along to the phone part of the hearing I missed this morning, it truly annoys me.
The time taken for the Frye hearing is necessary to sort out the expert stuff seems unavoidable.
All the phone stuff – pffft. What a crappy waste of time for inadmissable information. I’m sure another outpouring of $ for Fogen will result from his galvanized supporters who probably think they won.
And all the extra money and tea in China still won’t do Fogen a dang bit of good.
(repost to correct spelling.)The only reason they are trying to keep the experts from testifying is because they know damned well that was not zimmerman screaming.The jurors will know instantly who is screaming.Even his supporters know who was screaming.They just don’t care anything about the truth even when it’s staring them in the face in black and white.
He watched,followed and then pursued Trayvon those are aggressive and creepy acts. He then illegally tried to detain trayvon who resisted. While holding him at gun point He interrogated Trayvon.He then while holding onto the front of trayvon’s shirts preventing his escape,he killed him while being careful not to shoot his own hand. That is what the evidence shows.
I can tell by the arrogant look on his face,he still thinks he will get away with it.The only way he gets off is if they get a bunch bigoted Zimmerpukes,who will ignore the evidence and set him free.If that happens at sometime down the road he will go after someone else.
The only reason they are trying to keep the experts from testifying is because they know damned well that was not zimmerman screaming.The jurors will know instantly who is screaming.Even his supports know who was screaming.They just don’t care anything about the truth evben when it’s staring them in the face in black and white.
He watched,followed and then pursued Trayvon those are aggressive and creepy acts. He then illegally tried to detain trayvon who resisted. While holding him at gun point He interrogated Trayvon.He then while holding onto the front of trayvon’s shirts preventing his escape,he killed him while being careful not to shoot his own hand. That is what the evidence shows.
I can tell by the arrogant look on his face,he still thinks he will get away with it.The only way he gets off is if they get a bunch bigoted Zimmerpukes who will ignore the evidence and set him free.If that happens at sometime down the road he will go after someone else.
If all that unlikely stuff happens (he gets acquitted etc.) it is still likely that when he goes after someone else, that someone else will be armed and will stand his ground in a way that Fogen really won’t like.
Sorry Malisha, but I can’t go with you on that speculation because gz only goes after helpless children. It’s more likely his next victim will be another helpless child, tall enough to appear an adversary, but young and timid enough to give gz the courage he needs.
Exactly right….and how many days now…….less than 4 days !!
They still obviously have no expert who’s willing to get on that stand, be qualified, undergo the voir dire, and then testify that:
(a) the terrorized scream was Fogen; or that (b) Fogen was screaming “Help me Help me” while Trayvon Martin said, “you’re gonna die tonight motherfucker.”
So they got someone who would say that the amount of scream that could be isolated was too small to form any valid opinion about. He did, however, validate the METHODOLOGIES. HAHAHA!!
That’s like getting someone who would not say that the DNA test itself is not valid for court, or that a drop of blood contained DNA belonging to a person other than the killer or victim, but who said that “this drop of blood was too small to be really sure about anything” Does not invalidate anything.
Reich can say that he got enough of a sample to come to the conclusions to which he came. Certainly there’s no argument that he can use the techniques that he did use. Also, there is no magic number such as “less than five seconds’ isolated screaming cannot be analyzed.” Would it have been better if he had a full eight seconds of Trayvon’s terrified scream? Perhaps, but after all Fogen shot him before he could get out that last five seconds of screaming, didn’t he?
It can be logically proven that the scream was not Fogen because Fogen testified that he did not know that he had actually HIT Trayvon Martin with that one bullet. Therefore, he would not have had any reason to stop screaming after firing.
I need clarification on something I have seen referenced several times over the last couple of weeks. I thought that the fogen “help me” cries only existed at the police station for comparison to the shrieks on the NEN call. Yet I see people reference those utterances as if they happened when Trayvon was murdered.
Thanks.
I may be wrong, but I’ve heard some people – who could distinguish more from the enhanced tape than I was ever able to – say that GZ was mocking Trayvon’s pleas for help.
I’m with you. It’s exactly what I got. Zimmerman mocking the pleas for help.
Same here. It sounds like at one point he says “help me….huh..”
I say that the importan aspect about the screams is that they stop as soon as we hear the gunshot.
A little common sense is all it takes to explain that one.
There was a tape3 with GZ’s whimpy little “helps” transposed onto the original 911 tape.
I am one who can hear him mocking Trayvon as he screamed and cried for someone to help him. he has got to be the most heartless SOB on GOD’S green earth. it’s not hard to pick up that second voice screaming for help, right behind Trayvon’s screams.
It’s there plain as day and, for those who saw and heard this child’s cries for help, well they should feel pretty damn low because, they could have stopped this idiot from killing this kid. instead of them helping this child when he more than likely looked them in the face and, they turned their backs on him.
@Judy75201
This is only my opinion of what I sincerely believe I hear and have heard for over 6 months, i.e. well before Reich’s report.
I hear “I’m begging you” at the very beginning which in part corresponds with the OP saying “police, fire or medical” and which I attribute to Trayvon as it does not sound like GZ’s voice. I hear a single long “Help” midway, and a longish “stop” at the end just with the shot, both of which, along with “I’m begging you” I attribute to Trayvon as they are a distinct voice, IMO, from that of GZ’s whether talking or in his exemplar.
Underneath the 3 utterances I attribute to Trayvon, and many months before Reich came out with them, at intervals I hear a softer “Help” and/or “help me” which I attribute to GZ because, a) they are softer, b) they are very similar to GZ’s voice exemplars, c) GZ claims he called out, yelled, shouted, “help me” (interesting that he rarely uses “scream” to describe what he claims he did), and d) he says he called out for someone to “help restrain this guy”, and iirc some witnesses claim to have heard him doing so albeit retracted.
Judy – He did for the purpose of the voice stress test yell “help, help, help me”. He also made statements to detectives, during the re-enactment, and on Hannity that he was calling for help. His attorney’s and father are claiming that cries for help on 911 tape are him. He didn’t know the cries had been recorded and when the call is played for him, he responds that it doesn’t even sound like him.
I think Serino expected that the moment he heard that call being played, that he would have shown some sign of emotion and said something along the lines, “OMG, that’s me screaming for help trying to keep him from viciously banging my head on the concrete, he was trying to smother me, but I kept trying get myself from under him”.
No one on this forum believes those cries of fear are coming from GZ. Certainly, not EVEN GZ.
KittySP,
State v. Zimmerman: Voice Exemplar March 22 2012
https://soundcloud.com/producermatthew/state-v-zimmerman-voice
When I first heard that last year I like to die from laughter. And he volunteered to do that. Talk about stupidly arrogant.
Indeed! It’s unbelievable!
Or is it arrogantly stupid ?? No matter, he’s done….
X2
My biggest concern with this is that some may think one of the vids put together with the shrieks and with fogen’s police station “help me help me” cries interspersed for comparison may think they actually happened at the same time.
10 minutes to the new post!
(regarding the voice ID issue)
That this hearing happened on the anniversary of D-Day makes me sad. So many people died fighting against fascism and this jerk sits there enjoying the freedom all the blood was spilled for while his lawyer wastes everyone’s time… I’m glad the Allies won and justice is coming.
Geez, if I ever get caught up in legal land, I’m going to remember the “I don’t recall” line! : /
I’m listening to the hearing videos, catching up – how many dozens of times was that said today?!
JUSTICE FOR ALL
Do you think gz has any feeling of helplessness?
I haven’t yet looked for the hearing videos, I’m sure they’ve been posted so I’ll get another look soon. But, in the meantime, I paid particular attention to gz, who they were nice enough to show while the 911 call was being played. At the first scream he dropped his eyes and looked down… When the second scream came his eyes popped open and he looked up. You could seen he was deep in memory lane. After the second scream finished he managed to hold steady for a couple of seconds, then he seemed to realize the significance of what he’d heard and was thinking and he swallowed hard. The kind of fear filled gulp one takes when they realize their goose is cooked. Needless to say, for a fraction of a second, it was in his eyes as well.
Lonnie Trent has yesterdays’ hearing up at youtube. Part 3,4,and 5 are Wesely White and Ben Kruibos.
When BenK was asked was loosing his job worth the risk of his actions he said ‘Yes’
Alrighty then BenK is ready to move into his mama basement. It’ll be a cold day in hell before his get’s another case sensitive job with accompaying salary.
Right now McDonalds’ won’t even trust him with mixing ingredients to make their ice cream.
Not to worry, he’ll find a job… The septic tank people are always looking for help.
befitting for a shyte starter….
ic2fools~ This is my advice for BenK
________________________________
Lonnie~ FINALLY sinking into that concrete block he calls a brain! NOW I wonder if he’s trying to use some butter to shimmy that GPS bracelet off of his ankle!
________________________________
JUSTICE FOR TRAYVON!
JUSTICE FOR ZIMMERMAN!
YAHTC~ Justice for Zimmerman is going to look like 35 years to life behind bars.
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Thanks, SG2. That’s really helpful to know. I missed a lot of the action today and having troubling focusing on the long testimony in the videos.
YVW!
I expected a PH’d to dump a shit on another opinions.
I used to call them PH’d wars. I’d sit in meetings and listen to them argue all the time about who is right.
And if they’re wrong , hari-kari time. They go to their office and hide for 2 months.
I figured that, if O’Mara/West use Nakasone at trial won’t they have issue’s with GZ statements that Trayvon supposedly covered GZ’s mouth and nose with his hands and if I’m correct when he moved his hand it was from GZ nose? How can anyone scream with their mouth covered you have to be able to move air from your lungs out, the scream would be muffled to the point no ones phone would pick it up.
BDLR “…Okay Mr. Fogen….you’ve stated that is you screaming for help…I’m going to play this 911 call from the beginning and when we get to the part where your nose and mouth were covered, you just let me know…..ready ??…”
Racer, Serino and Singleton already tried that and he kept not remembering.
I remember……and despite the severity of the issue, one would expect him to. I don’t think the jury will let I’ don’t knows slide.
2 days 13 hours to go.
He’d better start remembering something because, in front of a jury you only need one big fishy thing to start down the wrong road with them. Or 2 small fishy things, or 4 little fishy things, or 8 tiny fishy things. Trouble is foggen’s gonna bring in a WHALE!
While waiting for next blog can someone answer me something?
http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2013/06/03/trayvon-martin-crime-scene-evidence-photos-george-zimmerman
Some of these clothes photos last week were new to me. What I’m curious about is Trayvon’s hoodie. All the stains on both his and Fogen’s clothes have had little snippets taken out to run tests. Okay. Then there is half the back and waistband taken off of Trayvon’s hoodie. What would have that been???
@Lynn
Then there is half the back and waistband taken off of Trayvon’s hoodie. What would have that been???
Fogen bloody handprints, JMO
I am pretty sure they cut off a piece for testing purposes.
Yeah, of course, but why the back? And why so big? Don’t you think there may have been something other than “just testing” that caught their attention?
It is in the FDLE laboratory report pg 123 of the first discovery.
They needed enough fabric to test at what distance the shot was fired.
oh god right! that’s where they found nasty gz’s dna mixed w/Trayvon’s on the bottom of his sweatshirt right?? and it had to happen post shoot because Trayvon wasn’t bleeding until then! so there can’t be a mixed spot of Dna until after Trayvon was shot.. that further proves gz killed him in cold blood because the only spots of Tray’s were mixed with gz’s, I think only two. or 3 with one that wasn’t totally confirmed..
Shannon, I think that GZ’s blood was found at the bottom right edge of Trayvon’s T-shirt, inside his hoodie. That would fit with the evidence of the shirts being grasped and pulled down to the right as GZ aimed and fired – being ever so careful not to hit his own left hand. The mix of blood elsewhere on T’s clothing probably happened when GZ patted him down, claiming he was looking for a weapon, but I’ll bet checking frantically for an exit wound. Remember, the EMT supposedly had to clean blood off GZ’s face AND hands. The police should have bagged his hands, IMO, and at the very least, taken photos to document his injuries.
looking at those pictures
all I can think is: It was just a kid walking home
Do you think jN is willing to go late today to make a point? IF defense (especially West ) drags out testimony till smoss grows on faces, everyone can count on some loooong days ahead during jury selection and trial.
I have come to the conclusion that one of West duties is to be as boring, long winded and drawn out as he possible can as he possible can. This strategy is used to put the jury into a mental coma… so they walk away not caring, knowing or remembering anything said by the “expert”… or anything occurring in the courtroom, when west is involved for that matter.
Jurors are going get plenty of snooze time when he’s at the lectern … not that O’Mara is any dynamo.
Is it me? Or does anyone else notice that for a brother, appearing in court in support of his brother, he spends no time looking at gz nor gz at him? They seem repulsed by each other.
He spent a good part of camera time mugging and smirking yesterday….what’s up with that ??
He only comes to court for the cameras, not for gz. When have we ever seen the family leave court with gz? When there’s a recess or after it’s over, when do we see RZ go over to gz for a chat? Never, no one goes near him, he’s always all alone, even during breaks his lawyers find things to do to stay away from him.
True all of that, but why even try. I’d be too embarrassed to stick my nose out for the likes of him and what he represents.
It is important to keep in mind that hardly a word was said about speech recognition, i.e. finding out what is said in the recording.
Speech recognition has a hard enough time under the best of circumstances. It sux. Speech wreck is a joke.
I was not talking about asking Siri to tell us what’s on the recording. I was talking about mostly manual analysis.
I am absolutely not a speech recognition expert or even any kind of speech expert, but my exposure to things like that in university was still quite a bit above average. Sorry, but I will go with my professors and my friends, some of whom have even done forensic phonetics work. Yes, fully automatic systems have their limitations, but there are many very interesting things going on.
Yeah, real interesting – like putting medical transcriptionists out of work and spitting out useless medical records.
It works well when it can be trained to a voice it knows, but it just does not have the capability to deal with it and as a MT, it was part of my job to “train” it.
Commercially available speech-to-text systems are just a fraction of what speech recognition is about and only very loosely related to anything that would be used here.
I just took issue that you brushed my comment and Reich’s work aside with such a sweeping generalization.
I’d have a problem with speech recognition if it weren’t for the fact that there are only 4 voices on the tape. Two of those voices are clearly in the foreground, since it is the caller and the dispatcher. While the other two voices are one or another of two more distant people.
These people are separated by age, weight and psychological space. One is bigger, stronger, combat trained, and has been employed in “enforcement” with physical contact duties he was assessed as being capable of performing, while the other was merely a hapless child with no criminal intentions or mission, and whom the evidence shows never engaged in physical offense, while his opponent had a firearm, on top of being more capable he was angry and on a mission he believed would keep the neighborhood safe.
Thus the most likely candidate for being fearful is, obviously the child! So then, why would the more capable of the two be the one in fear? WORSE YET for any view of a fight having taken place, the child is clearly displaying fear and submission. You’d have to be insane to imagine that an untrained and combat incapable child in fear, would suddenly become anything near a match for the aggressor.
Obviously the one who knew no holds, knew not how to apply any wrist locks or other defensive maneuvers, is not going to be the one to be screaming in pain! It is insane to think he’d be engaged in fear filled screaming, while beating a stronger more combat capable person either.
Finally, why are we supposed to accept that a fear filled child, who was unarmed, would not respond appropriately to the threat of a firearm being trained on him? Even if he had grabbed the gun, there is little reason to believe he could wrestle it away. However, the evidence shows he never even tried that.
Thus, if the child never saw the weapon then it is second degree murder! If the attacker shot with one hand free, it is second degree murder. You cannot be under lethal assault and still have one hand free to draw a weapon! Thus, if you manage to draw a firearm at all, you have a duty to display it and issue a warning, if you are not under threat of a continuous deadly assault.
It is my work too and I don’t believe I brushed it aside. In fact, isn’t Reich the one who bases it also on his experienced ear? So we are saying the exact same thing – unless that was the other gentleman. Sometimes a human ear is necessary to put not just the sounds but the context together because a machine cannot do that yet. They may be great for analyzing things but sometimes oh, never mind – speaking of ears, I have work to do LOL – but I brushed nothing aside. I’m just saying context is important and that requires a human ear and experience. At least at this time.
Rachael~ I agree with you 100%. Sometimes when I’m bored and at some restaurant where they have the TV on with closed captioning, I SEE that the machine does the weirdest things; “hears” totally the wrong word for the context. There is no substitute for human intelligence.
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I teach kids to do the same thing when learning a song. Listening to the harmony and pick out all voice parts. Listening to the music to identify all instruments and the patterns they play. We use Audacity to remove the vocal track from songs.
Agree Racheal, and, IMO, God forbid the days he seemed to predict when for this kind of analysis the human ear would be superfluous, albeit he did clarify that “listeners” would in his opinion always be necessary for court proceedings.
Your original remark…
… seemed to indicate that you made a leap from ‘speech recognition’ to ‘automatic speech recognition’. How is that supposed to make sense if you were including listening or other methods based primarily on human judgment? And your follow-up about automatic speech-to-text in particular only seemed to confirm that.
In his letter Reich spends much time talking about what was said on the recording as opposed to who said it. That’s speech recognition no matter how he did it. From the little glimpses that we have seen of his method it does not seem to be automated.
Nakasone mentioned speech recognition in passing today but did not address it in any detail. That means that all his concerns about recording length, emotional state, voice variability, range of sounds found in the recording etc. are not directly applicable to that.
I am not surprised that speech-to-text for medical transcription doesn’t work well. Speech-to-text is a notoriously difficult task because it is a very open-ended problem and involves “two sides” of the problem where things can go wrong. First there is the recognition side where it is all about which sounds were spoken, but that is not enough. Then that has to be converted into the right written words without any real knowledge of the content. There are simply many steps in that chain and an error in one most likely ruins the whole result. It is only made worse because for transcription you have to get it all correct. Other applications of speech recognition like those phone dialog systems that everyone hates can get away with a lot of cheating. Usually they discard most of what you say and only pay attention to a few keywords. Systems like that are much less ambitious in many ways, but they are also mature enough that people trust them enough to use them in fighter jet controls.
In a case like the 911 recording you could approach things a little differently because it is not necessary to leave the final decision to a computer. Just detecting likely spoken sounds at specific times and letting a human operator puzzle out the meaning is an acceptable answer. And of course you can also simply use a computer as a fancy recorder and visualization tool and leave all decisions to a human from start to finish.
I want to apologize. I went a little overboard yesterday.
When all is said and done, it seems to me that Dr. Nakasone’s opinion is rather generic, and based on his very stringent standards. His opinion of the 911 recording comes down to, “We have to throw out everything but 3 seconds of screaming, and no-one can tell anything from 3 seconds of screaming.” His opinion of competing experts comes down to, “Anyone who would claim they can make a positive ID from 3 seconds of screaming is a quack.”
First of all, this doesn’t address the bulk of Reich’s testimony, which is about what words can be recognized by scrutinizing the recording, not who said them.
Second, it sets a clear standard for the State’s voice ID witnesses. I would assume they found more than 3 seconds of the recording usable for their purposes. They will now clearly need to explain their rationale for including the additional material in their analyses. If they can’t do that well, then they SHOULD be disregarded. But I would guess they are armed with arguments as to why their method is valid, and that those arguments will be less generic than Dr. Nakasone’s, but rather refer to the specifics of the recording(s) in question. Something along the lines of, “well, yes, there is a lot of cross-talk, but that doesn’t totally rule out identification IN THIS CASE because of (tech factor x, y, z…)”
I have to re-listen to Nakasone’s testimony , I had other pressing issues. But I did catch enough to know where he was heading.
I don’t have my glasses.
I spent a few years developing sensing recognition equipment.
so I began to understand some of what he was saying before interruption.
#1 Does he know how the hardware works, section by section? , Hardware has advantages and disadvantages.
You should know that to understand any weaknesses. Where I used to work we always evaluated the competition
#2 If one is using a logarithmic amplifier or some software log algorithm , it usually means the resolution needs to be better, Logs kinda give the impression you have more range.
#3 if you had the manufacturer testifying ,he would likely tell you how great it works, no? I’ve learned over time especially with PH’d. They are very critical of anyone else’s work. so I kinda guessed he was going to dump a big shit on it pretty quick.
as with all machinery, nothing is perfect but it’s the best we got.
O’Mara justice
voices overheard with full context available = needs 100% scientific certainty before it can come in
some random hand on a phone with no context = pretty sure that’s means he tried to kill George, the jury should hear about this
Precisely! You nailed it.
I just got back, is the day done or are they just in recess?
We’re done fore the day. Kinda put out that I will miss all of tomorrows fun.
IN recess kind of done – done until tomorrow.
Dr. Nakasone is conservative by nature. He prefers not to speculate about anything or go out on any limbs.
He is suspicious of new methodologies and wants to see the data they produce before forming a conclusion about the use of the methodology.
Most scientists are like this and I have to confess that I agree with his approach.
This stresses the importance of professional journals in science and the role of peer review in evaluating new theories and methodologies.
Reliability = reproducibility.
KEY PRINCIPLE: A novel theory or new methodology in science must be tested by someone. The results must be published in a professional journal describing the experiment that was used.
Until other scientists have reviewed the published paper, commented on the experiment and the results, and run the same experiment in their labs to see if they get the same result, the novel theory or new methodology remains nothing more than an unconfirmed possibility.
When other scientists get the same or reproducible results, the theory or methodology is recognized as reliable and becomes a part of accepted or established science.
This is the scientific tradition by which novel theories and new methodologies become accepted science.
It is evidence driven.
The science parody magazine produced by professional scientists themselves is called “The Journal of Irreproducible Results,” (which you would find howlingly funny, if you were a scientist…)
whonoze~ even if you’re not a scientist, you can get the gist and laugh. I used to read it in grad school.
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Professor, how about a stress analysis of the scream? Can the experts prove that one must have been under serious and intense duress during that scream?
The first witness on the scene said that the killer was notably calm. He was by no means crying.
And was it the ME or the funeral director who said Trayvon had a dried tear on his cheek?
It’s very simple
Listen to it
ESF – the expert witness stated that the person producing those cries for help was someone under extreme duress. Witnesses and tests performed by EMTs shortly afterward show GZ was well within normal ranges.
Trayvons father was shown a photo of him the next day that showed tear on his face and blood coming from his mouth. Image no parent would be able to forget.
I agree completely that the Dr. is very conservative. He is also very knowledgeable. He was asked to do a specific task in evaluating the 911 call. He used the approved protocol and found only 3 seconds of useable sound and that was insufficient to proceed.
It’s possible that if a different question were asked, and someone with somewhat different protocols that are still valid, might get a different answer. Let’s hope so.
One thing he did that is helpful is that he validated other methods.
I had no problem in understanding his speech but maybe it’s b/c I have spent time with other Japanese immigrants and have become somewhat accustomed to the accent. I’m still unaccustomed to their extreme politeness.
I think he is full of crap to be honest
I use no audiology equipment and just use my ears and I can make out
1) Trayvon or a younger voice at the beginning of the tape, yell out, “Get Off” in a scared manner
2) I can hear Trayvon squeal in pain.
3) I can hear a whispery creeper voice similar to Fogen’s but can’t make out anything.
4) It was clear enough for Fogen to say, he did not recognize the voice as his own screaming and it does not sound like him.
5) I can make out a younger voice yelling out for help
6) I hear screams ended with a gunshot, which both the 911 caller and dispatch agreed that the screams ended with the gunshot
Considering this is using my ears, audiology equipment should be able to eq and highlight frequencies to make the recording even more audible and what i stated is way more than 3 seconds.
“…audiology equipment should be able to eq and highlight frequencies to make the recording even more audible and what i stated is way more than 3 seconds.”
I have a lot of EQ and sound processing gear for my PA system. I can hear without it, but with I clearly hear “get off” “I’m begging you” “I don’t know ’em” and what sounds like a very faint female voice a few seconds before the shot.
When I use my EQ to get the volume leveled on my meter of what is clearly Trayvon’s voice, I have to move the volume up at least 50% to get the same apparent volume level of Fogen’s voice.
Why….Fogen was not screaming…..not real hard to figure out.
Racer, I sure wish you could record and post an audio file of your enhancements. Can do? No can do?
i could try. The sound equipment I have is PA stuff but it’s probably not much different than what others use. I’ll have to try and get the signal onto my computer somehow.
You just need a computer mic, you can get one at Staples or Office Max or Radio Shack, they come with the software to capture audio. Or you could just get a double pronged male jack and plug it in to the computers mic port. Download the software from a free site by googling audio software. Of course, if your computer has a sound card so much the better, google “belarc advisor” it’s software that will tell you about every thing under the hood. Even which programs you don’t use very often or never used so you can unload them.
Happy hunting and oh by the way all I’ve got the June 6th hearing up in only 2 parts on my evidence pile
I agree with your analysis and I too worked many many years ago, (when I was young), with a Japanese company for 2 years and found their politeness extraordinary, but also their absolute adherence to the “accepted” behaviour, whereby my boss, when I gave in my notice, met with me in secret to offer me a raise and God knows what else to try to change my mind explaining that it was not their custom to plead and I must not tell anyone!
I do think though that his marked pronunciation is not good for juror sympathy especially with his expertise, i.e. analysing voices of English speakers, but IMBW… but I sincerely hope not.
@Jun Are you going to believe Fogen, or trust your lying ears?
I don’t know but those two audiologists whom the newspapers tasked to perform analysis seemed to have been able to conclude that it was not gz screaming. The only problem they claimed to have had was, they could not say it was Trayvon, but that was only because they did not have any sample of Trayvon’s voice. Now that the videos and other data have been extracted from his phone, perhaps there is a voice sample there, that they can use for a comparison?
Remember GZ said he a very bad nose bleed, TM has his hands
over his mouth and nose, his head very being bang on the sidewalk
one more time before he shot TM how can the scream not be clear
Lets talk about all of Fogens blood on Trayvon’s hands from that shit….opps, my bad, there was none. No water or grass, let alone concrete scrapings on the back of his head either. And his jacket being remarkably dry and stain free…..I need to buy one of those.
What happen? I stepped away for just 5 min or so and when I came back the screen was thanking me for watching… Last thing I seen was the State Attorney IT Specialist re-crossing the defense audio witness.
Recessed to tomorrow. We’re FINALLY done for the day. I will be at work though so I am gonna miss the rest of the fireworks. *pouts*
My Goodness, thanks!!!… Yeah, O’Mara is renowned for his courtroom theater! *SMH*
@ SoulSista –
Ms. Woo – 9:00 a.m. sharp!
I do not understand why the defendant still wears this vest inside the courtroom. It’s ridiculous. Except if it has some message for jury members and reason to keep it in place to use in some defense scheme, or future argument bringing in the alleged ‘continuing’ threats since the new black panthers wanted an arrest. No one wants him killed now, they want justice system to work.
I wonder IF the prosecution can or will ask the defense to prove that all these credible threats exist.
The Martin/Fulton/Jackson/Crumps aren’t too popular in certain circles and they seem to be able to walk the streets with out fear of being murdered……….. at least now that fogen’s on lock down.
Body armor is a gentleman’s corset.
had i been drinking i would have ruined my monitor
that is hilarious
He’s a lying scum sucking Drama King…..That’s all…oh, and a racist murderer.
@ay2z –
A lot of testimony today was on “assuming” – that Bernie didn’t turn over evidence to O’Mara, etc. So, we’re seeing the hazard of “assuming.” I fear you’re assuming this is some protective device that fogen is wearing that is “bulking him up” and surely he doesn’t need that in a secure courtroom.
I would agree with that – no need for such protection.
What does he need at such times of stress? He’s got a concealed carry permit for a 48-hour supply of Depends, and he’s carrying them in the “vest dispenser” for those who need quick access. They do, however, offer “baffle protection” from the wadding, and hollow-point bullets will fragment upon contact,
Isn’t science and technology wonderful?
I’m heading to the US Patents Office, right now …
ay2z~ no vest; just home-grown fat.
________________________________
Okay, in recess. Fred will get a new blog up.
BTW, it is what is on Zimmerman’s fucking phone, in the wake of the shooting, and not previous crap on TM’s phone that has nothing whatsoever to do with the elements of murder 2, that matters.
We are not comparing old phone records to old phone records here.
Exactly.
Crane I thought I was in the twilight zone. Thanks for confirming I’m not going crazy.
Seriously.
We: 1) Have no idea who actually had the phone in their hands on the days prior and 2) What is on anybody’s phone in the days prior means what? Nothing, as far as I can tell.
Well it appears that fogen kinda likes that pretty, long-haired, skinny AA girl intern. I suppose she must act lilke a white person. I wonder if joonyah approves.
Probably just for show – you know, because he has so many black friends who love him.
Maybe she’s one of he and ShelLIE’s mentored youths who’s come back to return the favor.
probably?
how old are you?
lol, I kid I kid
Here’s what I say about all those black friends and the march he mentioned…….
I wondered if she is a court employee or an AA plant by O’Mara to show that they like black people.
Wow – how come when I said that I got yelled at 😦
I dunno Rach! It looks blatantly obvious to me.
I’ll take plant for $1000, Alex!
@SG2
Alex Trebek: Yes SG2. A plant for a $1,000
Your question is:
Cannabis sativa is the scientific name of what plant?
JEPOARDY THEME, SG2 writing friviously……….
BING
Alex Trebek: Okay SG2 times up,Cannabis sativa is the scientific name of what plant?
SG2: Well Alex that would be Sweet Lovin Mary Jane,yananannnn!!!
😉
🙂
the live feed just replayed West’s little outburst.
is GZ not wearing wedding band? looked like he said he needs to use the bathroom.
I’m sure it no longer fits.
Maybe he should start wearing his weddin’ ring through his nose like all other cattle.
In the photos taken by and at the SPD of GZ the evening of 2/26/12, he was not wearing a wedding band. He probably doesn’t have one. Notice too that the ME documented that Trayvon was wearing a watch. GZ was not wearing a watch. With only 40 cents in his pocket, that speaks volumes about GZ.
And just $16.37 in the checking acct. and no savings acct. Yep, a real role model.
Cash assets of $16.77…..and behind on every payment…….
@racerrodig.
Yep, and that was after having $18,000 just 6 months prior.
That’s a lot of targets and ammo for the gun range…..and pizza, Chinese take out, Golden Corral, KFC……..
Setting something aside for a rainy day, pay some bills…….eh, not no much.
The ring or his marriage ??
Also, he wears a watch on his left wrist. Isn’t that unusual for a lefthanded person?
Nope.
The killer’s hands on the night of the murder:
No wedding band shadow either, but they threw a wedding together in like 2 days. Remember, Sondra Osterphoole made wedding cupcakes.
His nails look manicured compared to every real man I know.
Thanks Dave.
Hmmm…interesting, not even a tan line indicating normal wear and maybe taken off recently.
kittySP~ I tell ya; they’re not really married! Like everything else about them, their “marriage” is a fraud. For tuition? For tax breaks? Who knows?
________________________________
@Cielo –
People expand but gold does not. Likely he had it cut off – but would need extra gold to fill the needed expansion. For some reason, this was not done.
One harvest I was helping the work crew ship out avocados. The wooden bins are about 4 ft. x 4 ft. and hold a half ton (1,000 avocados). The packinghouse delivers the bins by hydraulic truck and they are dumped on the ground. I grabbed one to upright it and a bee or wasp that had alighted stung my left hand – ring finger.
I’m not sensitive to bee venom so kept on working, then had to rush of, shower & change and head off to a hearing with the state Ag Commissioner. Hot steamy hearing room. Left hand swelled up like a boxing mitt. Stopped in at the local fire station that Friday evening after the hearing and they cut my ring off. A little tricky getting the metal snips under the ring, but they did it neatly.
So it would be no problem to help Zimmerman out of his quandary. Not getting it repaired is another issue.
Maybe there’s a metal detector at the local jewelers that won’t let anyone in with a judicially-imposed ankle bracelet …
(PS: I attended that Friday hearing to address the Ag Commissioner’s permitting transit of uninspected (“phytosanitary” inspection for agricultural pests) Mexican avocados from Mexicali to Long Beach Harbor for shipment to Japan. I cited the long list of beneficiaries: the shipping companies, dockyards, truckers, Mexican growers, and the Chicago bank that was holding all that “paper” for the Mexican treasury – everybody except the California farmers he had taken an oath of office to support. It was all over local TV. Commissioner Clare Berryhill went back to Sacramento and resigned his office on Monday.) A simple bee sting would not keep a good farmer down.
Girl, you’re a farmer??
I have a small vegetable garden and two li’l orchards with some stone fruit, papayas, figs, persimmons, muscadines, passion fruit and citrus. Small time stuff, but so happy in my garden.
That’s my Tropic Snow peach tree in my avatar.
@Parrot –
Oooh! Loved your avatar the first moment I saw it. Never occurred to me that was YOUR fruit. Beautiful! Do you make jelly from our muscadines? Yum.
Farmed recently for 25+ years but life span of avocados is 25-27 years and they are thirsty trees. Water is high priced in CA so I expect to transition to an olive grove + vineyard. But too involved this year in JUSTICE FOR TRAYVON to take time out for grove rejuvenation. Your farm sounds wonderful!
I’m just a wannabe farmer. Learned by trial and error. Mostly error, so, mon chapeau, mademoiselle mon chapeau, mil fois.
I have so much respect for the people who actually make a living off of this.
What type of grapes? Olives, too?? Just like the Old World. Grapes and olives.
I just planted a few avocados of my own, of the cold-hardy Mexican types: Lila, Fantastic, Joey and Mexicola.
Yes, I make muscadine jelly, peach butter/jam/jelly, plum jam, plum fruit roll ups, marmalade. More than I can eat. Share with my family and friends.
I’m rambling.
Who would have thought that you were a professional farmer?
¡Abrazos!
I never did have a green thumb, but my grandfather could grow tomatoes on asphalt.
He must have known what he was doing.
He was one smart guy with a lot of common sense. He and my 1st wife would play farmer all day…..of course I did most of the digging and such, but they could grow some stuff. I really miss him…
In fact, they planted corn and just like Taaffe said, they got corn.
Racer- no you got a GREASE thumb!
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
I’ll buy that !!
Hahaha… now we’re into thumbs eh? 😆
But with the right soap they clean right up.
Parrot- I searched and searched your avatar and NEVER found a parrot in that tree!
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
No, Cielito Lindo.
Parroting is what I do for a living. I am a judicial interpreter/translator.
@Parrot –
Re: “Parroting is what I do for a living. I am a judicial interpreter/translator.”
How clever – and how fascinating! How many languages?
Pirañita,
I only interpret passively and actively in two–Spanish and English.(Although I’ve studied other languages).
It took a lifetime of exposure to these languages to get the linguistic breadth, and depth necessary to pass the federal certification examination. (Very difficult. The exam has a 4 to 5% pass rate).
Then armed with that linguistic base, you develop and hone interpreting skills.
So that’s how I make a living, but I love to grow things although I’m not that good at it. (Hence “wannabe farmer”). I haven’t found a way for gardening to pay for itself.
@Parrot,’
You are pursuing a complex and demanding career! Beyond the translation of words and idiomatic phrases, every “client” is an individual to whom you must adjust: their education, intellect, experience with the US justice system, age, ability to express themselves in their native tongue, their level of trust in YOU (you’re their lifeline!) and the various dialects used across this hemisphere. At times, I’m sure it’s a daunting task! Some you will love, some you’ll loathe, but you’re a professional, so they’ll never really know.
Don’t worry about your farm becoming a cash cow (how’s that for a mixed metaphor?) You are getting the nutritional benefits and pleasure from the fruits and veggies you grow. Nothing like a sun-ripened tomato, melon or peach – right?
It’s always been my intent to write the definitive text on the economics of avocado farming. I have the title: “How to Make a Million Dollars Growing Avocados.”
Chapter One is : “Start Out With Five Million.”
My other job the past few years is as a corporate speech writer. So far, nobody’s thrown a ripe tomato at any of my clients …
Hilarious!
“How to Make a Million Dollars Growing Avocados.”
Chapter One is : “Start Out With Five Million.”
That’s me! Ha, ha.
@Parrot,
C’est moi, aussi! (Y yo, tambien … sin $5M!)
What does a Billionaire become when he goes racing ??
A billionaire? What? 🙂
A Millionaire……
Sounds like we’re both in the wrong hobbies, racer.
Thank God I was never a Billionaire or a Millionaire where I could lose that kind of money. As a Sportsman racer, that is, a hobby racer, I have won a lot of money and since I do just about all my own work, I usually am in the black financially. If I had to pay someone to build my car, engine, trans, wiring etc, I probably couldn’t afford it.
I do know quite a few who make good money, went racing and a divorce, foreclosure and bankruptcy later….still didn’t get it.
You do it yourself. I’m afraid that even doing the gardening myself leaves me in the red.
I had a field of persimmons and opened it to the public for u-picking when they began full production. Persimmon canker had set in, though, and I lost more than half the field.
I’m going to try again with some peaches and citrus.
The most I know about gardening is how to run the tiller….other than that, not much.
Parrot- COOL! That must be hard. I did a bit of medical translation and it can get difficult especially if the Spanish speaker is not “really” a Spanish speaker. More like creole backwoods Spanish and the patient has no education. Yeah it gets tough.
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
It is challenging, but that’s what makes it still interesting after all these years.
The difficulty of the substandard language you describe is that there’s no way to prepare for it.
I can compile and study glossaries in the forensic sciences and be ready to interpret with the terms of art on the tip of my tongue.
But slang and spanglish terms and expressions change constantly and are used in closed circles. How do you prepare for that?
The remedy is:
“Your Honor, may the interpreter inquire the meaning of a term?
In the event I’ve made a mistake: “Your Honor, the interpreter would like to correct the record. The correct interpretation of ABC should be XYZ.”
I do some medical interpretation, but not extensively, so it is not my area of expertise. I would like to branch, out though.
Even out of focus you can see the grass on top of the toes of his boots.
I bet he’s gotten a lot of fan mail from NRA chicks.
Shellie probably knows he’d dump her for hottie
Edgy, Don’t even go down that road…..I’m a NRA Life member, have a concealed and can teach it, a woman, and I believe he is guilty as hell.
Fogen keeps that jacket button up now. To hide his expanding belly.
Either than or he’s proud he can actually button it.
How many suits must he have grown out of since this started… first he went real thin (bond hearing in prison garb) and now he’s ballooned.
He doesn’t care since the “adoring” public are constantly buying him new clothes.
Nakasone just screwed his own pooch by replying ‘Yes,’ to the State’s query as to whether he had ever disagreed with the majority of the scientific community.
Wasn’t able to listen to the state’s cross. Thanks for the clue in.
So, 1 + 1 is 3 ??? Hmmmmm. I hope the check from “The O’ Moron Law Group” bounces…..and it causes all his other checks to bounce.
Not to mention, no matter the forum, there’s gonna be disagreements based on one’s personal opinions, preferences, or beliefs. That’s been seen on this forum many a times.
That doctor is lying, I think he speaks good english, but choose not to. I do the same thing everyday. I got my good voice and then my laid back voice and vocab. Every time the states ask a question he can understand or become confused.
I don’t know. IMO his difficulty pronouncing English could make him antipatico to a jury who IMO would probably prefer someone of their own tongue… not that I’m inferring racial prejudice here just I think most would take more note and find more “expert” if the person analysing a voice and utterances had English as their dominant language. But IMBW.
Well Dr. N would say that wouldn’t he… his job could depend on it!
A technical working group is a group of experts in a particular field who are appointed to a committee to study a particular issue or problem and issue a report about it.
There are many technical working groups studying issues in forensic science.
Their findings and conclusions are generally accorded considerable respect.
Usually there is a majority and minority report and each member of the group may issue a separate report.
The composition of any technical working group typically includes scientists who have been known to disagree.
In my NAL estimation, the prosecution sufficiently countered Dr. Nakasone’s statement to meet the standards of admissibility.
West’s new round of questions strike me as redundant, and a waste of the court’s time.
That’s a shocker. I missed it so good to know. I’m hoping to find a recording somewhere
Well, even if the scream analysis is denied (still testimony on this), there is still common sense…
Yes, common sense hopefully will prevail.
Exactly….
Is somebody gonna conclude it’s Zimmerman… “Help, I have a gun”… give me a break!
Fogen’s going to claim Trayvon said “..who sold ya the piece..” and Fogen screamed “..I don’t know ‘eeeemmmm”
Dr. Nakasone:
Direct by West
I doubt that we (the scientific community) have developed a way to reliably compare a terrified shriek from someone stressed by impending death to a voice exemplar from a known individual under normal circumstances. Science is not there yet.
The pitch not also changes in a scream like that, the muscles in the throat responsible for sound assume or get into new positions.
After eliminating every part of the scream that is stepped on by other people speaking, the FBI was only able to isolate 3 seconds of the scream
He believes this is insufficient to perform voice identification.
Doesn’t that strongly suggest that there are two voices in the background? Otherwise three seconds seems a bit short.
The woman who called 911 and the 911 operator are in there too…. but still, I agree with prof L…. 3 seconds is enough. Other experts were able to work with it…. get this guy off the stand… NEXT!
If I may add, adult developed vocal cords do not sound the same as undeveloped child/teenager vocal cords. I limit my comment to Trayvons’ vocal cords and Fogen vocal cords.
Highest point of stress Fogen could not shriek or shrill to that high pitch decibel but Trayvon could.
it sounds like I have better ears than him
without any machines I can tell with 100% certainty when the kid is screaming and I can even tell you some of the words he says.
Several witness who were physically present and therefore heard the screams without the distortion of electronic devices agree Tzar, and say it was the boy who was screaming. Off the top of my head there was Mary Cutcher and Selma Mora as well as W18. Any others?
lol the working group of Omara’s expert has been in existence for 1 week
LMAO
Only met 1 or 2 times and certainly not to establish any documented P&Ps
No cohesion not one bit.
I believe Dr. N last minute analysis is boguhs hot air. rambling in circles about ‘human voice is unique’ for over an hour. leading nowhere.
Why is this FBI guy still on the stand? Since when does the FBI define what the courts accept? Since when is the FBI the “gold standard” of anything? They are people who work for the government…. big deal.
Oh my goodness – I was just gone for two hours – this is still going on . . . wowsers. I expected to watch from Trent’s channel.
Michael Skolnik @MichaelSkolnik 8m
they just played 911 call in courtroom where u can hear screams for help. here is a photo of Zimmerman’s response –> http://bit.ly/14AAXCW
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No picture came up on the link. Just an article.
Basically, Zimmerman looked either 1) totally unphased or 2) heavily medicated.
Unphased 3 sec Power nap, resting them blinky eyes, while attempting to numb his hearing from Trayvons’ screams begging for his life…….
Did you see afterwards his lips tightened corners/edges curled downwards, sighed heavily — shows exhaustion to make person appear in demand of others’ attention and support. jmo
no pun intended,not meant to be funny!
Yes, and I think the motion to hide witnesses behind a screen to prevent the invisible mob phenomenon was designed to further the image of being victim, prey, exhausted from all of the voluminous threats, and so on.
All choreographed.
Truth is, the Trayvon supporters have likely received the most in actual threats and abuse.
Threats against Trayvon’s family and AAs are all over social media, comments sections of news sites, and blogs. I have not seen such wide spread animus and vitriol from supporters of the Martin family.
I cannot recall seeing any. Granted, I do not visit the other sites hardly ever, but…I mean for real, why did he hire that really expensive security team he hasn’t paid. I’ll bet they were shaking their heads.
I heard both of The New Black Panthers were busy and satisfied Fogen was arrested.
So here it comes…..if I can’t have anonymous witnesses…..I’m not having any…..I’m taking my Bible and I’m going home.
On the side…there was a point when Bernie was whipping that butt and Robbie the Racist was grinning like a lunatic…..Papa Z was about to cry…..but what the hell was with Robbie jr ??
Good points, although I do have to go to YouTube and watch, because I missed some.
ic2fools~ gz was heavily medicated. It’s apparently the only way to keep him quiet. Well, medication AND lots of food!
________________________________
Crane I currently am watching first parts of hearing I missed. My take on why Omar wants behind screen anonymity is those three witness are not residents but visitors of a resident who live in the general vicinity of the murder.
Visitors’ who I believe were never there in the first place but are Fogen supporters a.k.a Killer Trollz paid to lie about the events. I smell durr-fense stinky setup that will be revealed during States’ cross.
Better yet by Impaired West slower than molAssAss questioning. (snark intended).
And White is a jealous, vindicitive hater, disgruntled ex-employee who should have notified Judge Debra first before Omar who by the way threw him under the bus when he was no longer of use.
White is so blinded by his hatred for Bernie, his thought process and reasonsing became clear what he did was out of pure spite. Misleading Kruibos by misinforming him of his potential involvement. That was not Kruibos responsibility, he got clear and precise direction of what his job was.
White only purpose was to have an inside track of happenings in Coreys’ offices and Bernies business. Used friendly kekeke conversations with BenK to get close, then twisting what info he got from that kid and his trust.
Now BenK has lost a job and a bright future in his field, be blacklisted all because of White. He was terrified on that stand realizing he had been played and used by White for Whites’ nefarious purposes, loss of respect and any hopes of secure employment in his field with the government.
Sorry so long….
Crane, high priced security did not shake their heads. They grinned and said, “CHA CHING!!!”
look at number #7, same look Fogen had on Hannity. check out the description.
http://www.nonverbal-world.com/2010/11/basic-emotional-expressions.html
Wow, that is remarkable. Enjoyed the rest of the link as well.
Thank you. Its’ good to know non verbal communication.
I watched a show inspired by the work of Paul Ekman, the world’s foremost expert on facial expressions and a professor emeritus of psychology at the University of California San Francisco School of Medicine. Dr. Ekman has served as an advisor to police departments and anti-terrorism groups (including the Transportation Security Administration) and acted as a scientific consultant in the production of the series. He is also the author of 15 books, including “Telling Lies” and “Emotions Revealed”.Lie To Me’ you would enjoy and learn from it.
show info
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie_to_Me
hope you get a chance to view this.
I have it open in another tab, thank you so much.
Your very welcome….
We are finally getting to the gist of his testimony, as to the Frye question.
I would guess his assertion that any speech that has been stepped on must be disregarded will be challenged by the State’s experts.
IMO “I’m begging you” is only “stepped on” at the beginning of the utterance and even then it is still audible, and “stop” at the end just before the shot, iirc, is not “stepped on” at all, so no wonder the State would challenge it.
well…and we just heard that the screams were of someone under extreme duress…GZ was found, during his exam of EMTs to be calm as a cucumber!
Excellent point!
x 2
x3
EMT’s took Zimmerman’s vitals about 20 minutes after the shooting …
Blood Pressure … NORMAL
Temperature …NORMAL
Pulse …NORMAL
x4
Count me in.
🙂
X3
Lonnie, I predict mid way trial West going to give out from exhaustiont. Notice Omar has his interns closer than usual, readying to fill in.
West truly does not seem to be ‘with it’ He sputtered and mustered up some gumpstion raised his one note voice only to loose his train of thought, when he thought he was onto ‘loop testimony, only to fizz out.
This may very well be West last case presented in a Courtroom. Needless to say he should have retired long ago. Instead he’ll be suspended or barred for his recent actions.
It will be interesting to know if he Bar will cut him slack because he is feeble minded.
Honestly, West is not physically, mentally or emotionally sound to try a court case.
@ic2fools. Yesterday when Bernie was cross-examining West, I was somewhat shocked that West made a personal attack rather than answer the question. Hmmm. Who do we see doing that? Zidiots. West’s behavior was very unprofessional. He can’t control his temper, which makes me think that he speaks in monotone as part of anger management.
Hahaha… MOM is questioning Reich and you can see that he’s out of his depth. The defense team is sadly lacking sufficient wattage to get the defense bulb brighter than dim. Certainly not enough light to see by. They both need to retire after this and their interns need retraining sufficient wipe this episode from there minds.
^^^^^”their not there. Oh well.
Xena, I missed that part I’ll check it out. Knowing how disrespectful West is to Judge Deborah does not surprise me.
I seriously have come to the conclusion that West has passed his ability to be an effective trial lawyer.
Not knocking his age at all, it is possible he is experiencing early states of dementia.
Unable to control his cantankerous temperament, time lapse of thought process and repeating same question multiple times. Most lawyers do repeat same questions phrasing them differently.
Could possibly be one of the other reasons why Judge Deborah gives him leeway and the fact defense cannot retaliate whining she is biased.
Hey remember this?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecA228wOjVE
Omar needs to help West understand Judge Deborah ‘got the power’…….
🙂
@ic2fools.
As I understand it, West and O’Mara have both handled criminal cases where they were able to lead their clients into plea bargains in exchange for reduced sentences or to avoid the death penalty. O’Mara is over his head and brought on West, who is now over his head.
For one thing, neither knows how to handle public opinion. They should have never entertained any communications from White Supremacists. But then, there was the promise of making monetary donations, and O’Mara is like GZ’s guardian, responsible for providing him with food and toilet paper.
West and O’Mara are not representing only GZ’s interests. They are also representing the interests of White Supremacists.
Oh yeah — I remember the vid really well. It took me 3 days to find that music track with only the background words. LOL!!
Xena~ Maybe they did think that a plea deal would be easy to swing. Little did they realize the real public interest and import of this case. In spite of what Malisha might postulate, the State has ZERO reason to offer a plea deal. They can nail gz and still leave the Sanford PD out of it. In fact, Serino might be pointed to as THE one who actually wanted to charge gz, so the SPD isn’t really at fault, huh? By the same reasoning, both Billy Lee and Wolfinger will no longer be fair game because BOTH are no longer in office. Anyway, my point is, the public furor is centered on gz, since he IS the murderer. The racism within the SPD will be “confronted” and maybe a few minor heads will roll or be demoted. There is no real “fire” to burn down the SPD, even though we have good reason to believe a cover-up by Billy Lee and Wolfinger was in the works. Once gz is convicted, the case will disappear, along with any embarrassing revelations about FL racism.
________________________________
@cielo62.
In criminal cases, the cost to the State is often considered in plea agreements. Of course, the State can prove that GZ committed 2nd degree murder, or Corey would not have been so confident in that charge. Either way he looks at it, GZ’s life is over. If acquitted, he walks away homeless, unemployed, no assets, and a wife awaiting trial.
You might have noticed that I’ve not been one involved in discussion of corruption in the SPD. Any corruption in the SPD is to be handled by the feds and not at GZ’s trial. This is a case where an unarmed 17 year old was shot in the heart by a man who profiled him in the plural, took time to aim to shoot, and the lied about it. For me, that takes priority.
Xena- I agree that convicting the murderer is the priority here. My point was directed more at Malisha, who believes a plea deal will be offered in order to avoid dealing with the SPD. I disagree.
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
@cielo62.
I understand and agree because I see no correlation between a plea deal for GZ and investigating the SPD. The State handles the criminal case, and the feds handle investigation into the SPD. Two different jurisdictions.
Every word you wrote is true! defense can not keep up the pace, Judge Deborah is ready to do the dam thang. court convenes 9:30am on a Saturday. West is not up to it in his obvious physical condition. Omar well Omar dam, he’ll begin throwing in the towel very soon.
Fogen may as well put a sammich his jacket pocket and be ready to take the perp position. Baliff to his immediate right soon will say stand up and place your hands behind your back, placing cuffs on him escorting him to lockup
Girl I thought that was your video, I absolutely love your channel. Hope you make more as the trial progresses, your work is exceptional.
Well, trying to go to bed, before I do I’m changing my gravatar to ‘No Skeletor’ not to happy with this one.
So see tomorrow. As faux says:
Same Skeletor Time, same Skeletor Channell
lol lol
Rest well my dear friend….
@ic2fools. Rest well. I’ll be up for awhile — trying to think of a good acronym for a video title that I’m putting together. 🙂
Sorry I missed your comment before going to sleep.
Xena, I had a few pop! Bear with me and please polish them up if they are usable.
A phrase Reich wrote in his analysis and our Lonnies strong opinion of Fogens’ superiority speaking:
1.) ‘These Shall Be’
2.) Listening to 911 I realized the last ‘HELP’ followed by kill shot, is Fogen. Your can hear the deep adult male voice ‘HELLP’, it was very quick and short. This suggestion is only an idea
3.) ‘My name is Gump, Fogen Gump’. (i can’t help this, gotta get my silly on’ Skrimp puddin’, Skrimp pie, Skrimp cake, Skrimp Taters’, Skrimp Latte’, Skrimp Beer, Ooooo Skrimp Skrimp….. lol lol lol
4.) Then I look at his face during the proceedings at times I see pure shock on his face, disbelief this has gone this far. idea
‘If only…..’
5.) ‘Believe In Magic’ –‘Fogen Tales’, or H.R. FogenPuf….
We’re in for a long summer, hope my suggestions aren’t too corny or politically incorrect…
@ic2fools. Thanks!! I like “Tales.”
YW Xena, lol Fogen Tales lol thanks for asking, I enjoyed thinkin like that.
You got video skillz, can’t wait to see your work. I may sit down one day an give it a whirl….
@ic2fools.
Oh — please do. I find it to be very interesting.
Thanks again for the suggestions. Now, I have to do some flower garden work before it gets dark. 🙂
George FoggenPotter, hahaha… 😆
thanks lonnie, big smile to you….
This seems like the kind of testimony that should be taking place during the trial–don’t see where it is focused on the validity, reliability or acceptance of methodology used by the state witnesses.
who is the old man in front of JR?
@evokid7. He’s at every hearing and wears a badge on an lanyard. I think he might be a sheriff assigned to the courtroom to escort GZ in and out of the building, to the washroom, etc.
Why has GZ never once said he said anything else other than “help” or “help me”. Why did he reply to Serino, ” It doesn’t EVEN sound like me”, i.e. what did he mean when qualifying it with “EVEN”, what else was there that didn’t remind him of himself… could it have been he didn’t recognize the words either? Did he not recognise even saying, “I’m begging you”? Or “Stop”?
I would like to know what Fogen meant by ‘These shall be’
I never heard that so I have no idea, I think it was Tchoupi on Whonoze’s blog that had heard something like that but not the same, albeit his did have more sense to it. I absolutely do hear “I’m begging you” and “stop” from before Reich’s analysis so I am as sure as I can be on that. Of course I don’t know, but when Serino replayed the tape for GZ, I would have expected him to say things like, “OMG, it doesn’t sound like me but yes, I was screaming, begging, begging him to stop”, etc. but not one on his side, so to speak, has ever said he yelled/called out/shouted/ etc. anything other than “help” or “help me”, and that makes me think he never said anything other than that and Trayvon’s are the screams you hear above that.
Alan Reich wrote he heard Fogen say ‘These shall be’ in his letter. I’ll find the link, Professor also wrote about Reich letter.
I’ll be back a bit later to post it for you.
@gbrbsb
I found a link for Alan Reich analysis of the 911 call where he hears Fogen say ‘These Shall Be’:
For example, approximately one second after the start of CALL3, Mr.
Zimmerman makes a seeminly religious proclamation, “These shall be.”
His speech is characterized by the low pitch and exaggerated pitch
contour reminiscent of an evangelical preacher or carnival barker. The
statement is challenging for the untrained listener to detect as it
occurs simultaneously with Trayvon Martin’s loud, high-pitched,
distressed, and tremulous “I’m begging you.” and the 911 Dispatcher’s
“Nine-one-one.”
http://zimmerman-vs-martin.blogspot.com/2013/05/text-version-alan-r-reich-phd-acoustic.html
you’ll find it mid way down….
Aha… “These shall be…” Your last moments of life!
It’s what was on gz’s mind: “You’re going to die tonight”, was gz’s mirror image translation, used to put his own words into Trayvon’s mouth! Solved!
Remember, they encountered each other as much as a minute 10 seconds earlier, before the 911 call began. Thus, if after almost a full minute of proximity, gz can even think of uttering a statement like that, he has positively no fear at all. He’s even still speaking from the superior place more than a minute after making physical contact with Trayvon.
That should not be the case!
Remember, again, more than one minute ago, gz is claiming Trayvon’s lethal attack began against “helpless me!”
Thus, his story goes: After a full minute or more of suffering an attack that was bringing him to the edge of mortality, he says “These shall be…”, and 45 seconds later he ends Trayvon’s life!
It’s the time line again! One minute and several seconds into the encounter, gz is still displaying his own superiority!
Lonnie–
Aha… “These shall be…” Your last moments of life!
It’s what was on gz’s mind: “You’re going to die tonight”, was gz’s mirror image translation
Also “These shall be your last screams or something to that effect.
I understand now, further shows how he was/is of depraved mind. Those were some cold blooded words to say to a child while branshing a gun and restraining him.
Fogen will be screaming ‘I’m begging you’ when he is locked up with real men that will be intimately physicially with him. Then they will call him ‘fuckin punk’ (excuse me)
I think serino told him they got him recorded on tape before he played it for gz. and maybe gz assumed it was right AFTER he killed Trayvon. so when he heard Trayvon’s voice he actually was totally surprised they caught that!
Never heard they told him they had him on tape, but IMO he didn’t recognize the voice and/or words because what was recorded was the stronger voice, i.e. Trayvon’s screaming, and not his voice calling out “help me” which is softer and underneath Trayvon’s.
Serino made that statement because he observed GZs non emotional response to the replaying of those horrific screams…who among us, after having experienced the events GZ claimed happened would have been able to listen to that call and not have responded emotionally? it didn’t EVEN sound like him cause it wasn’t him. POINT, BLANK, PERIOD!
@KittySP. GZ said why he yelling for help, and at no time did he say it was because he was in fear for his life.
State should be objecting to the playing of the recording unless the technical provenance is specified. I.e., is this in the same format as recorded by the 911 system, a direct digital copy, or has it been transcoded and/or compressed?
Court will not consider sanctions until post-trial, got that (expected).
If this keeps going on (forever) didn’t JN say they would work Saturdays? Just curious if I should cancel plans because defense is stalling.
@Whonoze you will have to break down what this expert is talking about,you know about stuff like this I’m so dam lost what he is saying.
See my post a few comments above.
Thanks, whonoze and others.
I knew it. HLN is taking the soundbite ofWest laughing and telling BDLR “We caught you…” and nothing else from this morning.
No examples of BDLR showing White to be a shitstarting, grudge holding, 15 minutes seeking, disgruntled ex-employee OR the dim as a 5watt bulb IT guy who breached confidentiality to leak information to the defense that they already had.
Note: The accreditation board is NOT federal, is is crime lab directors (guarding the chicken house)
ASCLAD/LAB
Time to get myself a little snack of canteloupe and strawberries. I’m bored to tears.
A bit of salt on the cantalope enhances its taste!
Yes! Salt on both of them. mmmm..
A squeeze of lime and a dash of chili powder on cantalope (pineapple, mango, papaya, jicama,) is better than salt
Basicly he is saying when a person is in a life or death srugggle an shrieking a issureing blood curling yells screams for his life.
Unless they have similar circumstse sample then its easy peasy.
But if all they have normal teenage chit chat
Laughing an jokeing with peers an normall telrphone voice recordings
Its difficult to analise the two differibg types of voice even from same person.
As lets face it your only going to be stalked terrorised hunted down grabbed an threateded with death an shrieking in ssheer terror an then executed an murdered once in your short 16 year 3 week existence.
yes, exactly. that recording is the last screams of Trayvon’s life and it speaks for him in this trial.
A man with a gun will not scream like that. A kid with just a drink and candy will. O-dirtbag knows that so does his murdering lying client.
We’re back.
Missed ya….welcome back !!
Welcome back! I believe O’Mara wanted to put BDLR on the stand but that didn’t work. I think he’s gonna make an emergency motion to depose Judge Nelson. If she wants to evade her responsibilities to submit to his cross-examination, she’ll have to bring a note from her mother.
Great. Glad you’re back. Can’t wait to hear your and C-S’s impressions of this mess.
Glad you are safe.
We’re back, will take a few to see what happened, thanks for your patience, everyone!
Okay, witnesses can’t wear white sheets in the courtroom, I mean be anonymous, got that.
Voice analysis witness now, I take it.
Welcome home, you were missed, the professor was missed also! 🙂
If our witnesses can’t be anonymous, then they won’t testify. My concern your honor is those New Black Panthers, yes, I know there are only 2, and yes your honor, they live 2,000 miles away, but you saw me wipe my face, er, that tear last night because of all the emotion stirred up.
O’Mara tried to call BDLR to the stand. LMAO – can’t wait ’til you get to that part. 😀
@Nef05.
At that point, O’Mara told the court that he lacked evidence to support his motion. He already presented his witnesses and BDLR took them to school. If O’Mara’s last resort was to call Bernie as a witness, then he not only failed to prove his motion but also violated rules because who was going to cross Bernie?
Glad to hear that your trip was safe.
The same witness has been on the stand since about 2 and a half hours.
Yay happy to hear ya’ll are back safe and sound. Hope you didn’t have to ride through rain.
No rain, but to the asshole who hit and disemboweled a baby deer on that Tennessee back road, and drove away to leave it suffering in the road for the occupants of the next 6 vehicles to address, Fuck You.
For Real, some people jus don’t give a damn.
Glad ya’ll didn’t get caught in wet weather…
Evil spirited ass’s everywhere.
Thank you so much, sorry I lost my temper, but seeing a baby deer just a few days old, get hit-and-run down like that was awful. I hate crap like that on these roads.
Perfectable understandable, you were nicer than me, I got a few more choice words for that fool.
We’re all glad ya’ll back home. Please get some rest we need you.
How sad 😦
awww, that pic hurt my heart…..
Skelator Seriously get to the dam point. You know good and well you don’t understand what the expert is talking about.
You’ve asked the same question for the past five minutes, and the expert keeps getting more technical on your dum azz.
PLEASE LET THE POOR MAN OFF THE STAND….Skelator questioning is going no where
Watch it George. Don’t break the chair.
Excuse me for being a dumbkoff
An I know this wittnes has been affiliated with F B I
Either now or in past but w t f
An I mean who the flucks wittnes is he?
STATE or Defence Im leaning towards defence for some reason or whom ever has the deepest pockets
ie wittnes will say for pay.
This witness never made any analysis of the tapes, right? So he is testifying only about methodologies. He sounds like a professor of voice recognition technology.
The FBI was not trying to find out exactly who said what to whom on the tapes; they were trying to find out if there was evidence on those tapes of either a hate crime or of a state agency denying civil rights to a victim of a crime. So whether they heard Fogen say “These shall be” and heard Trayvon Martin scream or whether they heard Fogen say “fucking coons” or “fucking punks” — the purpose of their investigation would guide what they used to do their investigation. As this witness says, there are various levels of analysis:
speech recognition
speaker recognition
content recognition
language recognition
etc.
If the question is: “Who said ‘you’re gonna die tonight motherfucker’?” you get one kid of analysis going on that is most appropriate to answer that question. If, on the other hand, the question is: “What did he say: ‘You’re gonna die tonight motherfucker!’ or ‘please, I’m begging you, don’t shoot!’?” then there’s another method that might be more appropriate and might get closer to giving an accurate answer.
Using the spectrographic method coupled with aural identification by the analyst, I think it’s going to be pretty clear that the prosecution witness can testify beyond a reasonable doubt, using methods that are recognized as generally acceptable within the field, that Trayvon Martin called out for help, begged Fogen to spare his life, screamed in terror and agony, and fell silent when he was shot in the heart.
O’Mara and West shouldn’t have wasted all that time with their sanctions sideshow. This guy is a rebuttal witness going out of order because he’s from out of town and has to leave. And it’s going to be pretty hard to recall back to what he has to say AFTER the prosecution presents their witnesses (tomorrow).
BDLR should have objected to the change of order for the witness, it wasn’t costing the state anything only the blood suckers were on the hook for the expense! This is just another ploy by MOM to force the delay of the trial…..
BDLR is to complying. He needs to be more of a hard ass. MOM is an unethical POS.
Assuming the State has done its homework, they would know pretty much what Dr. N. is going to say. If they let him go first, I would guess they are prepared to counter him on cross.
IANAL, but I still don’t see anything in his testimony that goes to admissibility. However, he might be a formidable rebuttal witness at trial. He seems to know what he’s talking about. I would assume the argument will be that his standards are too conservative, and the State will argue that their experts’ conclusions have a measure of validity even if they don’t meet Nakasone’s criteria.
I somewhat agree, however it is difficult to follow his line of reasoning without having heard the other experts first… It seems as if he is giving a blanket denial of the validity of any technique that does not meet his standards. Too bad we live in an imperfect world that often does not conform to the standards that the experts wish to impose…. IMO!
820 + posts !!!! it’s 3:47 !!
Listening to the exchange between West and Dr. Nakasone brings back memories of poor Marcia Clark spending all that time having to painstakingly explain the relatively new science of DNA/rNA to the jurors in O.J. Simpson’s trial. She completely lost most of them and the home audience as well.
that it did, was a real snooze inducer!
He is speaking theory, content, little bit about the speaker himself, and the surroundings. Yeah, it’s going to be extremely difficult to identify differences between foge’s recorded voice exemplar from the breaking pitches of the screams that indicate a young male with immature physical changes vs fully mature male.
Analogy– doesn’t mean you can’t group peaks for general identification of qualities of differences between speakers, adult, immature, projection, emotion, or whatever else.
Forest of the spectrogram peaks, for the individual trees, tree species.
Wheres yoko ono whe uou need her @ Living in the Dakotal buidning.
Not one flat but an entire foor 26 aparttments turned into one giant Flat
Worth about retater price 78 millions in real assitale
This biggest most exencive residene over b looking central park.
Contains about five time as much priceless beatles stuff unheard demos art works rembrants piccaso the with grand PIANO
tHERS PROBALY A LEAST 100 MILLION WORTH OF POSSESIONS CONSRVITIVE ESTIMIT.E.
Boy those Asians know how to balance a check book Afro Peruvians not so much
Olve you all
Even the trolls
Becase no matter hoe down I may feeal
Whenever I Read your stupid justificatins
It sends ne soaring when we re dealing with coupin clip buttscratchin an then finger bikteing there nails
Because theve run out of dry roasted peanuts
Infact some preger the fecies flavoured toe nails to dry roasted nuts as they both tate of excreatment.
PS the only thing foggages speech carries from whatever distance is self serveing lies
And uh, you have to also allow for the fact that an individual will use his common sense, and when he is listening to something that he believes to be an individual speaking, he will apply certain logical tests to what he is hearing, such as: “Will a guy scream like bloody murder when he is aiming and pulling the trigger of a loaded gun? Or will a kid scream like that when he sees that a stranger who has chased him down and cursed him is now aiming a gun at his heart?” Hmmmm… I wonder. Somebody go stay at Holiday Inn and hurry back here to tell me.
He looks as if he’s ready to jump up and blurt out…”it was the kid screaming”…
Was it Owen or Primeau who used aural recogniton? It sounds like this guy is sayin that is an acceptabe method. If so, that’s one prosecution audio expert, who excluded Zimmerman, who it appears satisfies the Frye test.
So this new group is saying experts should no longer be able to testify using the methods that have been in place and used in courts for years?
I wish fogen would quit looking into the camera, it freaks me out.
Imagine being his wife. GROSS!!!
I know – it looks like he is looking at me and I start screaming and tell him to stop it!!!
right?! well at least helps me focus on getting my work done for paying job.
ROFLMAO!
Is it just me, or do GZ’s eyes look “blacker” today than the night the police took pictures after the supposed “self-defense” shooting of TM?
he has dark circles under his eyes. he looks tired or like he’s on drugs or sumpenn.
LOL. _______________(I fainted)
Yeah, he’s jus sittin there and keeps eyes blinking his eyes at me. Unhunn, sumpin wrong wit him….
he looks like he wants a burger or sumpen.
I don’t know what he deal is.
oops, he should be his
Looks like he’s going to nod off any minute.
There’s a pill for that.
Ofr Wagner’s pic showed his irises contracted to pinpoint pupils, even though it was night-time.
Jeez, I can just hear Trent’s comments in my head, about West’s inability to GET ON WITH IT! You know he has somehting to say about it. 😀
I can hear Trent calling West, “Skeltor”. lol
Lol, it’s fitting!! So fitting!
I still say West is Mr. Hand…
No disrespect to the good doctor, but…. all the SLOW talking between the doc and West is about to drive me crazy!
In regards to the doc I am pretty sure it has to do with his accent more than anything. At a normal or above normal talking pace everyone but the court reporter might have trouble keeping up. Fogen certainly would.
BTDT and still have moments of it at work having to slow myself down when repeating the same old frozen yogurt spiel. Born and raise in vegas with a touch of southern accent under the west coast. So currently living in maine, I know good and well when I get rolling people loose track of what I am saying.
“Real good knowledge” Is that a technical term?
Only most of the members were selected carefully. The rest were drawn out of a hat.
What is this? The expert gets to ask himself questions and then answer them?
So they are using a scientific audio expert to debunk the science of audio analysis?
I’d like to add that not all epxerts work for the FBI. Just because an expert for the FBI isn’t successful doesn’t mean an expert in private practice won’t be… many people don’t want to work for the FBI, for good reason.
My God! This guy talks as slowly than West himself. They’re just running down the clock.
Ha ha, you posted at the same time as me, regarding the slllllllllllllloooooooooooooooowww talking.
I like the doc. He is calm, collected, very articulate, precise and to the point. Not someone to be ruffled easily (and certainly not by someone of West’s caliber).
I do to, Searching. However, I wish the questions elicited more specific and focused testimony relevant to the recordings in this case.
Not debunk the whole field. They want to use him to distinguish between audio analysis methods that are well accepted in the field, and produce results considered “robust” within the research community, and methods that are more controversial, and produce findings considered “fragile” as Dr. Nakasone used the term earlier.
They haven’t gotten to any substance yet, (listening to this is like watching paint dry), but I can’t see how his testimony would go to admissibility rather than weight. But, perhaps we’ll see (or rather hear)… If we all can stay awake…
yes, it’s like watching paint dry — being in california, i stayed up all night so as not to miss the 6 AM starting bell. i think this might just send me to nappy time.
That can be looked at in many ways. Some working for the government do so because it’s the federal government…..no higher LE than the FBI. A federal attorney might be there for the love of it and some might be there for the safety. Some do it for the safety; steady paycheck, good retirement benefits.
Me, I did it because the federal government was the only employer for my career…..air traffic controller.
THAT LAW GRADE– WHATEVER LOOKS BEYOND DAMN SLOPPY, The white shirt looks dull and dirty and his suit obviously has not been iron or pressed or starched. And I should know cause I rarely iron. I just throw it into the dryer for a minute. But I be damn if I throw my suit in there. Fogen’s team; sloppy appearance, sloppy lawyer, sloppy lies and excuses, just plain ole’ sloppy seconds.
It’s because they’ve been working so hard and long into the night. LOL
I don’t think so. I have my “good” clothes and then my “GOOD” clothes. I am a law student now. I wouldn’t dare go out the house looking like that, or TV. LOL And I don’t know how to iron, but I do know how to dry clean. 🙂 but good point though
It was supposed to be sarcastic. LOL
ummm, we need Proff here to analyze WTF these two clowns are doing like he usually does!!
I’m not really getting how serious these accusations are!
But hello???
how can this * voice recognition* expert talk about speech!???
he’s talkin about North Carrorina!! WTF??LMFAO
He has an excellent English vocabulary. He probably also has a good ear for language.
It is very hard for many people who never formed an “L” sound in their native language to say it properly later in life. Let’s respect our fellow citizens who have immigrated from other countries and have enriched the cultural heritage of our country.
Yes, let’s not sound like the Treestump here. THey constantly make fun of BEV, what they call Ebonics . . . if it’s not out and out racist, it borders on it to make fun of someone’s accent.
I just heard a guitar strum a g chord anyone else.?
@colin black. I heard it too — think it was West’s laptop booting up.
@Xena lol that was Skelators’ matin’ call….
LOL@ic2fools.
@Xena TaaaDaa!!
I was out at drs. I’m reading Kruidbos was side blinded by White.
B4 I left it was plain as day White is a jealous hater of our Beloved Bernie. Whom by the way let him know a thing or two, delicately. Left white lookin like the hatin fool he is. Using Ben trying to take down Angela and Bernie. terrible person
look at dum azz west, stuck on stupid. can’t even get a though process quick enough to ask….
whew too funny, face dried up in sucked in like a crackhead….
Yes, first thing I heard though something was wrong witth my ‘puter.
jus got in from drs…..
you are not imagining things, was the new law grad’s computer, he should have had his speakers off.
Would have been better had this been a Knopfler or Rea lick.
Cool! Another Chris Rea fan! Knopfler too of course, but Chris is VERY underrated. And healthy these days. 🙂
Just picked myself up from the floor. Go on.
That’s Lee in disguise working for oranges again
PS Can you study for a bacholars degree if your a married man?
Kinda think a Japanese person might not want to be confused with a Chinese person. There is something in the culture of Japan, that is called xenophobia, and I don’t offer this as gai jin opinion, but from teachings Japanese profs themselves, in a Japanese university setting about their own cultural attitudes historically.
No offense but it would be nice if the voice of the voice expert was easier to understand… just saying
Exactly!!! lol
He’s not too bad, but I guess my dealing with foreign pilots helps in understanding his accent.
trying to catch up comments
B T W
When to we ger to hearabout all the alleged ebony male homsexuall porn retrieved from foggagges blackberry ect
Or was that un unfounded rumour.
If its true brings an entire new meaning to foggage turning over Trayvon preading his arms an mounting him?
you STOP IT !!!! hahahhaha1
Colin, I looked into that and it was nothing but an internet rumor that started on a fake newspaper front page made to appear like it was a local Sanford paper. I put it into the same category as TM beating up a bus driver, nothing but internet rumor.
Here is the fake site, for those interested in where it started…..
I think the key should’ve been the web address being a blog, not to mention it’s the only entry.
I don’t care what nobody thinks. I get a feeling that both zimmermans have rubbed their peter whackers together as the child of TWO gay parents I can say for sure, I know a d*** sucker when I see one. and furthermore because I don’t care even if my brother or anyone was justified in killing someone. I would not ever in my-life feel comfortable dealing with them or being around them. Because I think, fee and know every-time I see their hands or eyes, that they choose to take a human life. It is unnatural killing another person.
Colin~ you are a BAD boy!! That was the LAST time gz lent his phpone to Jr.!
________________________________
starting again
why did JN not rule against defense. She knows it’s BS why postpone it?
OK, they’re back now!
And ten turned into 20… and still counting
Yeah, I took a break to mow the lawn and thought I would be back here late!
Just got in whassssoooooopppppppppppp
Are they back in court yet?
MOM was really STUPID to spill the beans about his plan to use the sanctions issue as a reason to ask for a continuance AGAIN!
(I think he said that when questioning West?)
Judge caught it, too. That is NOT the relief he asked for in his motion for sanctions – and he just does not seem able to comprehend: Trial begins on June 10!
if anyone has connection/sound problems, I suggest a free app that has a live feed from channel 6. It was the only Zimmerman app in the apple store. I watch the live feed on my IPad and follow here on my computer. So far I haven’t had any issues with sound and there are no commercials.
The bad part of cutting it off is that MOM still has just his side of the story for the press conference. BDLR had a witness that might have cleared things up a bit.
I was impressed by West’s manner of presentation, at least much more than what I’d seen previously.
Oowee I can hardly wait to read the professor’s thoughts and summary of this hotmess hearing.
I think Prof and Crane should just turn off computers this evening and enjoy their away time.
The media’s reporting is skewed, such as cfnews headling of this morning, saying IT worker found previously ‘unreleased’ photos. Do these reporters not pay attention?
He didn’t say that, he suspected, he alledged, he assumed, and then instead of calling Bernie or Bernie’s boss, he called Wes.
I feel sorry for the IT Director. He had no idea what he had stumbled into. His own attorney slung him under a train. Did you see the look on his face when Bernie said …”you attorney testified earlier that he had not …”. Bernie then went to something else after telling the judge its in the transcript meaning IT guy can go back and see for himself how his attorney did him.
Bet he diescovered what he stepped into when he was questioned about the ‘leaks’ to a blog that he was one of two people set in the investigators sights, or in this case ‘sites’.
said it once, will say it again…watching MOM and West in court reminds me of the scene in Django when Big Daddy and his band of bumbling horseman couldn’t see their way in the dark through the holes cut out in their white hoods…IDIOTS!
I hope that Jr. Will not be sitting in his current seat for trial. I don’t think I can stand to look at his face every day. It’s bad enough to have to listen to Mom’s nails on a chalkboard voice. Makes me cringe.
you got witness waiting around to testify…and you waisting time with this tomfoolery! aint nobody got time for dat!
Did anyone else notice they cut the mic’s off this time? Darn, miss out on all the good stuff when they do that! Poor MOM, he just got handed his own head on a platter and does not ever recognize it! Fogen is going to wear out that legal tablet he keeps writing demands of MOM on!!!
HLN “expert” attorneys are horrible.
They obviously did not watch this hearing this AM…
They are good examples of lawyers who just ass speak, they don’t do the most basic research before going on their entertainment shows with flashy magic side falling mystery boxes that bring a sense of showbiz to the serious topic, complete with ‘stringers’ that evoke a feeling of suspense. Sad.
That is why I don’t watch on tv. They are not paying attention to the things going on in court and you miss more than you see. Thank goodness for computers.
your fault for watching them after seeing that reenactment (and leatherman related article)
I understand why she did it, but I wish she had waited until after he FDLE IT guy had testified. Now, the soundbite eveyone will televise is West’s little laugh and “We CAUGHT you…”, without the rebuttal of the FDLE guy to refute it. And they won’t hear anything to refute it until AFTER the trial, and jury selection starts Monday.
I almost worried about that, but then I remembered what’s been going on in the media lately. I don’t think the trial is gonna get as much press as trunk mom did, but they will show some.. and it looks to me that the media has turned on the defense pretty publicly. I think it happened when they let out all those things around the last hearing. i think they didn’t like that kinda smearing the victim..and omar did it using such benign examples practically ‘every-teenager-done-it’ type stuff like smoking pot- But THEY called it DRUGS, as if Trayvon’s pics of sprouts were actually just the tip of his deep dark drug life of crime, because every parent would agree, if their kids get’s caught smoking pot, it’s fine with them to shot him on the spot!!!
i just think i see a shift in peoples minds. they seem to have gotten more sympathetic to Trayvon, and offended that he is being attacked by the defense.
MOM is showing he’s making no attempt to stay on Nelson’s good side. I have to conclude he’s looking beyond the trial — which he certainly must expect to lose at this point — and trying to set up grounds for an appeal.
Yes. He’s got one strike against her ruling on the depo of Ben issue, the extremely ‘limited’ depo on Ben, that is.
He’s chalking everything up and trying to put down any attempt at the ‘race’ implications, while he’s planning a full on attack of the politics of the case post trial. Jr. will do his part and take care of the female lawyer, so he thinks.
A whole morning-plus, wasted on a bunch of junk that can’t even be authenticated and has no chance of becoming admissible evidence for that and several other reasons!
Those defense clowns don’t know how to prioritize their work or anything else – they never have known.
Finally! JN went Nino Brown on Omar. “sit your five dollar ass down before I make change!”. Booyah!!!
Big Willie — You are definitely overestimating the value of Omar’s ass. 🙂
lol! how about two cents…
So what do post trail mean,to finish this issue.
After the trial is over.
after the guilty or not guilt verdict
I didn’t get that. Will the continue today. Is there another recession. Did anyone understand how long it will take?
They’re coming back in a few minutes to do the Frye hearing.
good to see you over here. Now it get’s interesting. Not that it wasn’t so far. Bernie is really, really good.
Have to get myself a tea and a yoghurt now.
Ten minute recess then onto the Grue hearing.
thanks, willis. I realized it must show up on Twitter.
I see we have a rare guest here, at least haven’t seen him quite some time over here. Know knows who that may be? 😉
Ok, 10 minutes. Interesting stage act so far. 😉
They’re dropping this sanction nonsense, and will return to it after the trial is over. They’re moving on to the Frye hearing, so that the court and parties are ready for trial to start on Monday.
Oh, I hear they are back.
Ten minute break and then they’ll move on to the Frye hearing. Nelson just said stop wasting the courts time trying to get money out of the State. You can try again after the trial has been concluded.
and yes, we’re having another recession. I think march of 2028 🙂
You know LeaNder’s not a native speaker of English, right?
Whonoze, that’s exactly why I love people like shannon pointing out these mistakes to me. Recession is what? I see it’s that simply it’s Rezesssion in German. 😉
And if the judge leaves the courtroom and takes a break it’s what?
OK, it’s Rezession the only difference is the c. No three ss’s.
yes i know you’re german that’s why i laughed!
still funny 🙂
so recess is when they take a break in court or when kindergarteners go play for a half hour..
recession is the economic disaster we barely survived thru.
I was pretty close, you have to admit. 😉
And since I had earphones on, I could hear the hearing started again at exactly the time I was starting a comment. See, I have a little excuse too. 😉
Please always do this, especially when you think it is funny. Rezession in German means the same as the English word, by the way. It works sometimes, but it does not always. E.g. with the word sympathy it does not.
Thanks for pointing this out. Very helpful. I wasn’t familiar with the word recess I guess. I am now with your help.
LeaNder,
I wish my French and Italian were half as good as your English.
parrot, English was always my favorite language. Initially that may well have been connected with music. Our own was horribly boring when I was a teen. It also always remained my favorite in spite of the fact that my arch enemy was my director and English teacher in high school and in the last two years I shifted to physics for exactly that reason.
I am pretty sure that my Italian and French may be worse than yours. Especially using it, takes usually a couple of days in holidays to get the vocabulary up to the surface for longer exchanges beyond simple questions or answers. The problem is I am using neither of those very much. And I rarely read in those languages too. That makes all the difference.
every one I know in my family ( mom’s side) is german. so i’m used to the language nuances, I find it endearing really 🙂 though I spoke much better german as a kid ( when my mom was alive) now I depend on the similarities between the languages the most. It’s kinda easy for me to spot a german’s writings in English- most of the time! I think it’s my secret super powers.
I think it comes from my ex who did an international MBA ( obvious in English ) I edited so many papers for him I think he owes me half his earnings 🙂
oh and I know you are a stickler for detail, 100% fact orientated.. I know you have to have the unvarnished truth and data before you can even begin to analyze it! and damn you’re good!! lol I wish I was like you- ein bisschen etwas!
btw. I’m not positive but I believe you’re in Cologne? my mom’s from Viersen ( kinda Monchengladbach/Düsseldorf area ) i miss my times there..i don’t have the money nor the people i used to have to visit anymore. it’s not like the kind of place i’d go for a vacation with my six y.o, w/o friends or family to hang with… now i’m melancholy = same thing in german too..might not be spelled the same. 😦
Yes, Shannon, I am in Cologne. Viersen is slightly North West close to the Netherlands. Melancholy is the same word simply “ie” in the end instead of “y”. Basically most of the words with either Greek or Latin roots are similar. Sympathy is one of the exceptions, it doesn’t have a trace of compassion in German. It’s simply liking someone. I could say someone is “sympathisch” meaning likeable.
Concerning stickler to detail, I was surprised when I got that feedback from two members of a study group in university the first time. But there is a gain of truth to it, I guess.
I guess I have slightly recovered from my shock concerning West. Looked at closer he does not listen but simply tries to repeat his talking points.
An American once tried to tells me that is all it is about, if you want to win a debate. Something he was taught in Harvard, he wrote. I don’t remember how exactly he put it at the moment, but vividly remember that debates with him were very pretty repetitive and boring as a result most of the time.
@Leander,
Strictly speaking, “in recess” is the precise term to use for legislative and judicial proceedings. They don’t “take a break” or “time out” or “go to lunch;” they “recess” (verb). It’s the formal term, always used.
Recess in schools is play-time (time away from classroom work).
Recess in architecture is a niche area (a pulled-back area).
Recession in economics is a “pulling back” in the economy (opposite to a “boom.”)
You Latin professor would quote the verb “cedere” as “to go.” We proceed when we go forward; we march in a procession; we recede when we pull back. Same root applies to “legal proceedings.” That describes what went forward in the courtroom.
Thanks for the German word. I could tell you had figured this out.
So you covered the whole world field for me, Piranha. Recede – recess it a good memory help, yes and cedere may help too. That’s more yield or withdraw or give way. Maybe my by now vague memories of Caesar’s De Bello Gallico would help explain why recede initially had a military ring for me. 😉
@Leander,
Your reference to recede as a military term shows you have an acute grasp of military reports: “retreat” = abject abandonment of the military objective (worst); “withdrawal” would only be coupled with “strategic” (but needs to be linked to the statement of the new strategy); and “recede” is a subtle withdrawal indicating “Of a transient nature.” Recede is used by the military as non-culpable in that they expect to retake the ground they lost.
Of course, there are few ground wars anymore; not since the Korean Conflict. VietNam was a guerilla campaign; long and grinding with no effective ground attainment aim. This “progress” under McNamara was measured by “kills,” a number often inflated and never able to be substantiated.
Alas, in the Iraq War, Bush could only ask “how man killed?” The professional military were appalled. That question lost all military relevance 40 years ago. Forever.
The sea “recedes” with the tide … but it always comes back again.
Thus a courtroom or legislative “recess” indicates “we’ll be back at the stated time, on the same track.”
I don’t really have much knowledge in military terms, apart from the fact that I had to read Caesar in school. But the way you define recede in that context is exactly how I remember he used cedere, as ruse, a trick, only seemingly yielding, seemingly withdrawing. I hated Caesar to be quite honest, it’s so self-celebatory. But the WOT raised my interest in this topic again.
This was a bad day, although hardly anyone here will agree with me. I had this feeling since I read Nakasone’s report.
Now that I heard Trayvon’s voice I am more than ever convinced that it was him screaming. It’s a lot closer to the scream.
I thought from early on they would challenge this with science. declare it not determinable following Nakasone. Makes me pretty melancholic really. So we have the tape but it does not really help much in spite of the horrible little yelps of the reenactment.
Owen’s trick to multiply the same sampling several times, really makes sense to me on the surface.
It’s really strange, in this context it feels I may well be on the other side in these type of arguments, only not in Fogen’s case, I have to admit.
@Leander,
The only purpose of the Frye Hearing is whether there are established methods – not which one – to allow forensic experts to testify.
Judge Nelson narrowly interprets.
Judge Nelson also gives wide latitude to the defense, such as not ordering a gag order so far. She “gave” that to the defense – and DE-fueled any attempt to appeal the verdict because of her “prejudice.” Smart move by JN,
Thus I believe she will have no trouble certifying the audio experts, which the prosecution wants.
You may recall that JN shuts herself off entirely from the media – no TV, no newspapers, no internet, no blogs, no Public Radio ..
Astoundingly, the defense insisted on playing the blood-curdling 911 tape, from which I expect she had hermetically concealed herself.
It is so riveting, so excruciating to hear, that I believe it MUST have had an emotional impact on the Judge.
She will not permit it to go unheard by the jury, nor unexamined by the experts.
shannoninmiami~ too bad we can’t have a recess from the recession!
________________________________
Was my jaw the only one that dropped when O’Mara accused the prosecution of doing the very thing he did a couple days ago, lying to the judge, and wanted them persecuted for it?
Nope, mine was on the floor, as well. What did Pres. Clinton say, “takes a lot of brass to accuse someone else of something you’ve been doing”?
Yep I was just going to say that. They have no shame.
nope.. your jaw wasn’t the only one dropping.. Thats O’Haha’s famous RUBBER GLUE defense… “I’m rubber your glue, whatever you say bounces offa me and sticks to you”… smdh..
Mark O’Funny what a big as loser, now you trying to put Bernie in jail….
Dear God, please strike Mark O’Dummy with IBS, when his cross exams Bernie…. Thank You.
lol 😆
LOL !!!
smack down, by judge nelson and rightly so. this has gotten beyond ridiculous!
And FINALLY JN puts her foot down and we got on with this. Its about freaking time. MoM needs to drop this sanction BS because it is NOT working in his favor. The deeper and longer this goes the worse they end up looking.
Ha ha ha. BDLR calls bullshit on taking the stand and IMMEDIATELY judge Nelson calls bullshit on MOM’s whole gambit.
On to trial. Justice delayed is injustice.
O’Mara and West make the Shriner’s circus look like Cirque Du Soleli at this point. Utterly and beyond ridiculous.
WOW !! He tried to call BDLR to the stand !!
that should tell everyone what a clown this guy is
BAM!!! Judge Nelson isn’t going to waste time hearing O’Mara’s conspiracy theories and avoiding the Frye hearing. You go Judge Nelson. (Go judge! Go judge! Go judge!)
Right, Judge Nelson! This has been a bizarre circus sideshow, in an attempt to delay trial!
Enough BS! Let’s get to the MERITS!
Whoa doggie! LOL
snap!!! duhhh duhhh she let the sheanaagins go on long enough~!
BAM! now go somewhere and sit down!
Wow! Judge Nelson gave MOM and pretty good slap down!!!!
Nelson finally pulled the fucking mic cord
good grief
it is about time
No kidding. Dang that nonsense went on all morning!
Shut up O! On with the Frye hearing!
Did that MOFO MOM just accuse Bernie of lying to the Judge? Oh my F-God this man has lost his mind. Ok I get it …the GOP playbook accuse your opponent of doing what your misdeeds.
like Bernie said
when the law is against you argue the evidence
when the evidence is against you, argue the law
when the law and the evidence is against you
call the other attorney’s name
Looks like O’Mara’s plot was to have BDLR removed from the case, which would delay trial. O’Mara’s a snake.
wow!
this is crazy! whatcha wanna bet omar’s got a problem with doing the frey hearing???
he wasn’t expecting it.
@shannon.
O’Mara’s motion and argument is because he knows it was Trayvon screaming, has no expert to say otherwise, and GZ insisted that he do something to prevent that evidence from being entered at trial, so Papa Zim and Junior can be the ONLY “expert” witnesses — just like LLMPapa’s video says.
well i have no idea what this guy is going on about . it’s too boring…but i think they’ll need a miracle if they think this expert’s gonna do it for em.
that tape is coming in and no one will doubt ( no normal person) who’s voice that is..
He probably thought he could string this sanctions nonsense out all day and into tomorrow. Surprise, surprise.
Frankly, I’m surprised jN put up with as much of this as she did.
well that’s what zimmy’s been doing. accusing Trayvon of everything he did, and then trying to steal Trayvon’s words and actions for himself. ya know.. Like *MOM* *I’M BEGGING YOU*… that zimmy is trying to say he screamed for his mom and not THE 17y.o. KID!!! yeah, everyone knows the grown ass 28 y.o 203 lbs MAN is gonna be screaming for his mommy!!!
@ shannoninmiami
Celie [in the Color Purple] said it best : “Everything you done to me, already done to you.”
By the looks of GZ, he’s already a dead man walking.
OMG!! i remember that part! that’s some serious shit there!! that was scary when she said it, i’ll never forget it!
i believe you’re right too. he has to get what he puts out, get what he gave, lay in the bed he made.
I’ve always believed in karma until recently.. and i still want to believe gz will get what he deserves so i’ll reserve belief of karma for now..
Piensa el ladrón que todos son de su condición (A thief thinks that everyone is in the same game, or something like that)
OMG!!!!!! Judge Nelson is not playing and has just gave notice that 1. She has a zero tolerance for MOM BS and 2. THE TRIAL WILL BEGIN ON MONDAY, JUNEth as schelduled!
O.o…. Seriously MoM? You’re wanna call Bernie? Are you out of your fruit loopin mind?
They’re gonna put Joonyah the Racist on the stand next
He’s gonna testify to the world that
1) Blacks are risky
2) The Jews control the media and they are conspiring with the pu-bu-lacks, whom are risky, to railroad a decent white I mean Afro Peruvian police officer I mean NW that is not self appointed
3) Trayvon Martin is also Jewish, hence the control beyond the grave
4) Black plus Jewish equals even more risky
Trust me it’s coming up next
Teeheee!!!
5) Mongo Slade is risky
6) Anyone wearing pink with orange and orange with pink, is risky.
7) narrow dark shade wearers are risky
8) pink plastic shade wearers are risky
Postponing this mess – HOO-RAY!! Good idea, JN!
I’m posting in bit and pieces at the moment sorry folks at work…. am I missing something. Did I hear West say when being questions by Bernie that their expert witness found additional evidence in the raw data and Bernie asked did you disclose it to use and he had a deer in head light moment?
It’s the court’s intention to start on Monday. So much for the defense’s renewed motion to continue.
Is Judge Nelson getting ready to shut this bullsh*t down?
About damn time! I can’t BELIEVE they’re (every lawyer/judge in FLORIDA) allowing the likes of fogen make a mockery of the court system.. GOD BLESS AMERICA!
ooooh, no he didnt!
Today’s new word kids: Work product
it’s not what you think…anymore
New definition for Work Product– what you get from the state in one form as requested, then you send back to them asking for them to do your work to put it in simple readable form, is ‘work product’.
Share and share alike, the new definition. Makes the term redundant as we knew it before today, doesn’t it.
Processing problems again.
West is an idiot. Bernie has him and MOM on the run. They filed a motion complaining prosecution withheld evidence but it is apparent that they are hiding evidence and waiting until the last minute to produce it.
just like fogen claiming trayvon did the things he actually did…..now his lawyers filed documents FALSELY claiming the defense was holding back evidence WHILE they indeed WERE holding back evidence.
i used the wrong word at the end there “evidence” nothing they held back was actual evidence.
Oh my… WEST: “It’s going to take me a minute to sort that out.” processing today?
chile!!!!! old man West…. Take A FUCKIN seat….
careful now West
there are emails
LMAO
Fogen’s eyes shift about and then blinky bink and then he kind of does a half-smirk with his mouth and then shifty-eyes-blinky-bink again and some sort of creepy-looking internal mobilization occurs. He reminds me of a Cyborg. Hey — do you think the real Fogen already fled and this is a Cyborg with an ankle bracelet on?
Last hearing he did the same thing at the end, eyes shifted far to one side, then far to the other, head held like in a brace. Then directly at the camera.
He’s doing more of those antics today, attention getting.
That is a good one, Malisha!
West is losing it!
Wish he’d been able to unleash a bit longer, poor guy… 😉
Unless they found texts or pics specific to homes in RATL or GZ then this is all MOOT!!!
yup — west admits he got the source file in feb, but no one installed a neon sign saying ‘check me’. what a dim bulb!
When you stretch a rubber band this far, you are risking serious snap back.
Pump Yo Brakes West!!!! Don’t get loud.
Get him, Bernie. Gethimgethimgethim. Get Don West!
Get him, Judge Nelson! And she did!
If this had to be done today in front of cameras, it was for MOM’s media agenda to speak to the jury pool, all ready with their notices and call ups for Monday.
@ay2z. O’Mara wants everyone on trial other than GZ. Judge Nelson ain’t going for that plot.
I swear
West is the greatest “this one time at bandcamp” bullshit artist evar
**hollering**
God that Fugly Face of Fogen Geez. I think he is eating all he can, cause he knows that he is not going to eat so good in the Bighouse.
I can see it now.
OM: We need this information in this phase of the trial Your Honor.
JN: Explain why you need it.
OM: If indeed Trayvon Martin was just as my client thought, a drug addict up to no good with guns and violence and MMA and underage girls and beating up Sherman Ware on his phone, and if all that is allowed in, then we can prove my client’s self-defense claim.
JN: Your client has not made a self-defense claim Mr. O’Mara.
OM: Well he WOULD if you would let him testify anonymously behind a screen and not expose him to cross-examination.
JN: You already asked for that and I denied it. If you want him to testify he has to swear his oath and take the stand and be questioned and cross-examined like any other witness here.
OM: But he can’t risk doing that, Your Honor; there are thugs out to kill him if he does that.
JN: Oh I see. So what do you prefer?
OM: He wants to proffer to the court, through me, that the young thug got himself dead because my client was forced to defend himself from being murdered on 2/26/2012.
JN: OK, you want me to instruct the jury that they should believe that and that we can dispense with testimony and cross-examination?
OM: Yes Your Honor, because that is the American Way.
JN: Oh. I guess I missed that part in Law School. Thanks for mentoring me. Proceed.
Omara’s evidence
“Trayvon is pu-bu-lack”
Oh god!!!! Wouldn’t it just be fucking beyond funny. If they got a file dump on Fogen’s phone. And there is a picture of naked She/lie lol lol…That just came to me while listening to “RAPTOR FACE” Attorney West. I can see them doing something like that between each other. LMAO
Ewwwww – but that would be funny!!!
Why are they wasting time with what’s on Trayvon’s phone…that may not even be admissable?
West: uh…uh..
What is going on here? Make it stop!
Btw. if anybody is surprised by the thousands of images, you can tell from the size and things said about them that those aren’t all typical photos but includes tiny cached images collected while browsing the web etc.
So, pro bono attorneys want to be paid for doing their job. (SMH)
Watching these two turkeys interact with each other is absurd. When will JN bring down the hammer and tell the m to get on with it?
For that matter, Trayvon could have had the secret official recipe for Coca-Cola on his phone along with a map for where D.B. Cooper landed, and it wouldn’t have anything to do with how Fogen murdered an unarmed teen.
@ Trained Observer
Judge Nelson read your mind. She just gave MOM a short lecture on how to prioritize what is important on this day in her courtroom. And did I here MOM announce that he wanted to put Bernie in the box? W. T. H.???? Judge Nelson then took a 10 minute recess to see whether her advice will be followed. If I was a betting person I would bet MOM will come back just as clueless as he was before the recess.
I still can’t believe they’re doing all this mess just days before trial! Most lawyers would be overwhelmed with trial prep.
They don’t need to prepare for trial. Once the big conspiracy is revealed through these folks they put on the stand, the charges will all be dropped and then Junior and Fogen are going to sue the Fulton-Martins for millions of dollars for deliberate infliction of emotional distress!
Oh, and O’Mara will take that case on a contingency!
It’s obvious that they’re only doing this to repeat over and over about “guns” and “underage girls” and “drugs”.
What a despicable spectacle we’re witnessing.
It’s okay, Bernie can now open the door on Omara and Fogen now LOL
But they are too boring for the general public. I think they’ve past the time of maximum return a while back.
That’s because these loser lawyers keep running out of straws!! They bypassed an SYG hearing, their dignity, self respect & now common damn sense!!
What would they prep? They’ve got no defense … all they can do is obfuscate and confuse and make it all seem complicated. Then later claim they “lost” on technicalities unrelated to their client’s innocense. We all know a neighborhood watch guy has every right to gun down whoever he pleases.
West on the stand again.
Yippie
got your toothpicks ready to hold eyes ‘open’? We may need them.
I’ve given up on listening to what they are saying. I like watching it for its comedic value.
West- Bueller….. bueller…….
Are these hearings made to torture Fogen? LOL
Lol, looks like he’s frozen in forward position, except for eye movement.
His neck is stiff and he just seem to move only his eyes.
SG2- I missed the whole thing; last few days of school are super busy. Did GZ look medicated like his last few times?
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
Totally! He looked like he was in a daze. Whenever he looked around the room, the neck stayed in place and he only moved his eyes.
@ Southern, he has no neck. LOL
His neck is webbed to his shoulders.
Could it be that White contacted O’Mara as far back as January. White identified the weakest link in the chain for the prosecution. Possibly even followed Q to know where he would eat and then pounced. They appealed to W’s pride and sense of entitlement. q was being used like toilet paper and didn’t even know it. He is too low on the totem pole to know all information and assumed what he didn’t know was missing.
Just my opinion, but White seems to be a real Patsy to be honest LMAO
Question: (sorry but I had to keep bring the livestream back up) But is the state saying that Omara got the entire file from FDLE namely Brennen?
Oh lord
West is back for seconds in the stand
We’re back
I’m starting a new business! I am going into the internet popcorn delivery service. For the small sum of $2.50 (via PayPal), I will email you a bag of popcorn, butter on the popcorn will cost extra! I should be able to make enough off this trial to start my very own franchise operation! Perhaps I will call it “Pop Corn Trial Services”? Who wishes to buy the first bag? PS: I will give a 10% senior discount….
How old do you have to be to qualify as a senior?
If you are old enough to fall for this scheme then you are old enough for the discount!! 🙂
You plant popcorn, you GET popcorn. Transfer 2.50 to Peter Pan.
Malisha- LOL! ROTFLMAO!
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
I wonder if Kruidbos has contributed to Fogen’s Defense Fund. I wonder if prosecutors researched that question. The ones that support Fogen with money do not fit into stereo-type image of racists created in the mind of the ordinary individual. They are the sort one will never suspect of having any racial animosity and hatred. I don’t think Kruidbos is a naïve young man. I think he is calculating, mischievous and breathtakingly dumb (as is his “attorney” Mr. Wes White).
SearchingMind… I agree with the observation in your post totally! I also think Kruidbos inexperience (Youth) is the reason for his making this calculated, mischievous, breathtakingly dumb ass move.
What a freakin Zimmerman!
L O L ! “What a freakin Zimmerman”! A new catch phrase for the ages! L O L.
Here we go with a possible defense strategy, to claim, as previously alluded to by fogen’s defense, that new science (who really needs a Fry hearing on what??) suggests, based on 3 (THREE) young people’s experience, that pot smoking brings on schizophrenia, including paranoia, recurring psychosis (key word ‘recurring’) and hallucinations.
Will MOM be watching CBC television this weekend?
http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/natureofthings/2010/downsideofhigh/
Mr.White is trying his best to get his 15min. of fame,he really wanted this case. LOL! O’Mara,West and White the dam Three Stooges! You all can choose which is who,it want make a different.
They are like naughty boys playing with grown-up pornography in the attic and then they conceive of the idea that they can force people to give them whatever they want if they pretend that whoever had the pornography before them was supposed to give it to them earlier — and then they find out that (a) it’s contraband and they’re in trouble and (b) in addition, they’re getting blamed for smuggling it up there in the first place! OHO!! Isn’t this whole case a bunch of immature big-mouth conscience-free intelligence-impaired assholes posturing and waving their arms about like non-Equity actors in a local production of an unknown Russian drama?
A deservedly unknown Russian drama.
Is it bad that I am salivating over this hearing…hurry up 1:40 p.m. I need to see this hearing continue! All I need is the popcorn cause the show is entertaining as hell!
Okay, I really do not understand computer and cellphone technology nor all the legalities here.
However, I do have a comment using my “mother wit”:
I am going back to White saying that he and K were at the same restaurant and eating a separate tables.
(This was at the time that K no doubt was experiencing grief over the death of his wife. He probably was emotionally vulnerable.)
Up to this point (say in January) K was just catching the difference in the bites of the cellphone info and giving BLDR the “corrections” which BLDR, in fact, DID act on and update whatever.
Then, along comes White to K’s table at the restaurant. White then or before had given his condolences to K over the loss of K’s wife.
Because White and K had originally been sitting at separate tables, it does not seem to me that K had any originally intentions of talking to White (for legal advice over his cellphone-info legal exposure).
I think we have to ask how White “drew” K’s concerns out of K once White sat down at K’s restaurant table.
How did the conversation evolve into K’s technical work for the State? Did White himself cause K to suddenly be concerned that K might have “legal exposure”? Had K even considered this possibility before his encounter with White at the restaurant?
Any thoughts?
Did White engineer this entire scenario?
White was looking for an opportunity to screw AC. DNK what IT idiot motivation was.
Interesting theory you have there. With their meeting as you describe (I had to go check and sign off deliver for some roof tiles during BDLR’s cross) sounds like a very casual encounter and strange it should go from “sorry to hear about you wife”, to K retaining White to represent him for a failure to disclose he isn’t even sure actually happened.
Is it just me or did Kruidbos find out on the stand that the defense had screwed him over and he ruined his career for nothing?
yep
The defense ruined Kruidbos career for nothing. But he was willing to go for it.
Karma, it’s what’s for dinner!
Apparently he couldn’t seet he forest for the trees. To pull up another cliche , he neglected to remember that it’s not smart to bite the hand the feeds. He works(ed) for Corey, but chose to hook up with White. Dumb.
What an idiot!
And from the expression on White’s face,one would think everything was going in his favor…how narcissistic can one be.
he’s clearly nuts :lol
his objections were awesomely clumsy
Summary
1. O’Mara’s IT-expert is more competent than Mr. Kruidbos (the State’s IT-expert). This is new (and I hope no reason for concern).
2. O’Mara had- and published information he claims the State hid from him. The State did not have that information because the State’s expert (i.e. Kruidbos) was not competent enough to extract that information.
3. BDLR did not say this but O’Mara violated Discovery Rules by not providing the State the information he extracted.
No Discovery violation. MOTION DENIED!
Good to see theese Sky-Hawks: Bernie, Guy and the Bored guy in actiotion.
Boomerang
I do not get what the point of today was with that Idiot White guy and CryBoss because when they testified, all they proved is Omara is a fucking bloodclot liar LMAO
He had everything the whole time LMAO
On top, Omara mischaracterized the evidence and said it was from a third party software, so they could have been playing a cellphone game where they buy guns or whatever
bumbaclot idiot
They just played the 911 tape for Nagasone and you should have watched gz’s face. His eyes were down in the middle, but as the last blood curdling scream came on his eyes seemed to pop up. Then he seemed to be trying to maintain composure but then he swallowed hard, it seemed pretty darned involuntary to me. Can’t wait to get the video to see it again.
Yet, another person’s life that fogen has ruined!!!
It wouldn’t surprise me if he’s friends with fogen, or at least was.
I was wondering to my self whether Fogen feels bad…anyway another one bites the dust. The body count keeps increasing.
Don’t worry. This guy can earn his keep by selling used hoodies off the back of a truck — in Sudan.
I’m guessing Fogen only feels bad that the ploy isn’t working.
If there was any doubt about fogens guilt it should be put to rest after this latest dog and pony show. Innocent people let the known evidence speak for itself.
More likely someone OM knows.
ruined lives? oh yeah that’s true. I heard RVC’s home value is at a low and no one can sell their house/condos. My wife and I were joking about grabbing one for like 85k.
Recess break: Anyone got some really bad Musak?? If so, it might be appropriate but please keep it to yourself!! 😉
How about a little smile instead.
Hilarious 🙂
ThasssRight !!!
Recess to 1:40 EST. MOM wanted more than one hr, much to do, Judge Nelson didn’t give in to his latest camera op whine.
I think he said “at most” an hour
Thank God!
Man…what is the defense doing?
Spreading the poison. I think this could be what Bernie was overheard on the after court last week, where Bernie said “That’s not fair, Mark.”
I’d like to know the education of this IT guy. His critical thinking is atrocious.
Why inject yourself in a case when you don’t know all the facts?
And he should know the raw bin file contains all he thought the Defense did not get.
Also he said cellbrite software cost $8k. So likely there are copyrights and licenses issued, one just cannot GIVE it to someone. Did any of that ever come up in court?
He wants to get in good with Ms. Corey’s replacement… in the future. A gamble and an incentive to be some sort of SAO mole for White to future career benefit, to undermine the present SA.
Note ‘Wes’ has not yet billed him, doesn’t remember when he talked to his client first or opened a client file, or made any notes around first contact time, nor did Wes notify Judge Nelson, nor did he notify the Fla Bar Assn, nor did he speak to anyone at the SAO because he said he assumed he would not get the truth (that was an ASSumption on his part only).
he thought he was exposed to legal risks before? well let’s see what happens when he makes himself a target of the DA’s office due to exposing confidential information. He seems to have no fucking idea that they now may need to make an example of him. Consider what he did, and what the ramifications of him getting away with it would be. Any disgruntled employee may now be embolden to play with the people’s evidence as part of their personal vendetta; the DA’s office can’t have that. And you know what, his lawyer can’t save him, in fact mr. white seems a bit out of practice.
WHO (not even lawyers or public office, but ANYBODY) would ever hire an IT guy who sold confidential information out of the Florida prosecutor’s office? He’ll have to go to work for those Nigerians who always get lost in airports and have to e-mail home for money to escape terrible situations. But he’ll have to be physically outsourced to India even to do that!
That’s why I was curious about his education. No matter the degree the most important thing I think other than subject matter, is conditioning the brain to think critically the remainder of your life.
Got on the stand and tangled with BDLR without all the facts?
using the phrase from the Gladiator movie. “That was not prudent”
he clearly does not realize his mental infirmity and that may be part of his mental infirmity
West Coast: tuned in late. Did they do the Frye hearing before this, or is that yet to come?
Still to come.
I don’t think Frey came up, they are wasting time with the clueless IT guy
To come… but after partaking of some victuals and the defence doing some more homework according to MOM.
Yet to come. Meanwhile half a day has been spent chasing shadows. Imagine that!
The IT guy was bunch of jive.
I think Nelson has about had it.
Nelson has a lot of patience, really. Some Judges would have interjected and told O’Mara to wrap it up! This is The Best of Beavis and Butthead (oh I love that series).
nothing better than a B&B ‘moronathon’ … i think we’ve got a good 6 week stretch coming up 🙂
Lol
I was sitting up straight when they feed came back, and saw West on the stand.
I just love O’Mara’s severe voice and West’s long suffering drone.
My imagination, or is this guy’s brown nose getting bigger?
Damnit – I’m working – sounds like I’m missing some good stuff. I’m sure the hearing will be posted somewhere later. 😦
You can bet youtuber Fogen supporter, ‘trayvon george’ will have it up pronto.
I’m going to check the friendly side first.
Trent had the first 30-45 minutes up while the rest of the hearing was still going.
MOM asks about release of retirement funding increases/financial info that had been leaked.
Public records request at time it happened, Ms. Corey said info was public records request. She didn’t think that K had done it, according to ‘K’.
Email with screenshots, K said he made it, to notate difs between the two releases, to Osteen and cc BDLR. Subject “File Differences” but he put in no case number, says office policy not to id emails by case number/name, put not specifics into email (told by SAO)
Judge calls sidebar.
MOM’s in CYA mode now.
“I didn’t tell you anything to say in court right???”
“No.”
What is cya?
Cover Your Ass… : )
cover your ass = CYA
I always wondered what that meant!cya I thought it was see ya ‘something’..like see you later.. thanks for finally clearing that up!lol
well…. not quite as bad as the old lady who thought ‘LOL’ meant ‘lots of loved’ and used it in condolence cards 😉
do we really need the extra theatrics from this liar? isn’t he already getting enough attention in the pressers?
Correction: confidentiality ..
K: “We didn’t even try it in house” (recover from the phone)
MOM: “Heh…”
K: calls his lawyer “Wes White”
K: “I don’t know the date” (re: put on admin. leave)
K: “I would prefer not to make those accusations” (re: employee underlings, access, etc taken away from him)
MOM: Anger, animosity t’wards B?
K: “No.”
Mom, buying the gun actually existed in Feb ’12 report… “surprise you?”
K: “No”
(Feb 2012???)
Feb 12th.
Did O’Mara just throw dude under the bus, re: report 2/12?
Bernie brings up breach of bonfidentiality ..
Dude’s ASS is GRASS! Kiss it goodbye!
Heh – trying to minimize the damage!
Clueless in Sanford.
What is GZ chewing? Is he pretending to eat? Is this his way of telling JN it’s lunchtime?
OMG!!! You owe me a new keyboard!! That was funny as hell!!……ROTFLMMFAO!!!!
ROTHFLMAO
….and 10 mins later… plus MOM asking for extra time.
MOM: So, Zimmerman, what are we having? Burger King or McDonalds?
GZ: Errr, can we do both?
Ladies and Gentelmen, I bring to you the “McWhopper”!
All bovine species chew cud. You didn’t know that? Don’t be suprised when he starts to whinny and nay. It’s just what they do.
Lynn that was hilarious. But he chews every time he ‘s in court it’s Nicorette I bet because I think he smokes or is there some kind of drug you can chew.
The “conspiracy” again? O’Mara’s falling back on the crackhouse/joonya theory? LOL!
what exactly is O’Mara’s redirect about? LMAO
I don’t even think M’OM knows where the hell’s he’s going with his line of questioning. He just trying the “never let em’ see you sweat” defense…lol
seriously, he really thinks he is some sort of Svengali magician,
dude we can see right up your sleeve…
You knew the stuff you worked on was confidential?
YES
But you felt you could be in trouble if you did not disclose it?
I WAS AFRAID OF LEGAL CONSEQUENCES…
But you had no trouble continuing to work for the SAO?
RIGHT.
No further questions.
[UH OH, WTF? UH OH…] (if he has i.q. in the double digits, at least.)
or, if i.q. = < 70:
[WOW I really answered THAT question good!]
Unbelievable.
That sounds like the dumb IT guy. Ever since they started these Strayer schools for IT, I’ve seen plenty of these types entering IT. We used to mostly have Math or EE BS degree types in IT back in the day. I’s dotted, T’s crossed. Some co-workers and I were rolling laughing at this guy.
Like dude, what are you doing testifying about something you know nothing about?
Bernie has completely devoured this Kruidbos guy. What a Sky-hawk!
OK one more cheer for Bernie De La Rionda!
Now he is going to whip this boy with the Breach of Confidentiality tube… This dude is a pure bona fide victim of Bernie…
B brings up info in attny’s office is confidential and remains confidential?
K says ‘yes’
ooo… like a victim of sexual batter?
K: “Yes”
B brings up general examples of reasons for this, and other examples, gangs, destruction of evidence, etc
K: “I didn’t know what you have turned over”
B: but you continued to work here, for myself and Mr. Guy etc…
… you had no problems doing that?
K: “No”
You’re finished dude. You will never work for any entity, public or private that requires confidentiality within the company/entity. Now, it appears you mayhave violated a colleage’s personal medical info, so no one wants to work with you, either. Find a new career, or start fixing computers out of your house to make rent.
You’re done.
So Omara already knew that trayvon didn’t take those photos of the gun and pot plant. They were imported from a 3rd party software.program.
It seems to me, that Mark O’IDIOT is digging his own grave plus hammering in the final nail of his own coffin as well. he is making himself look worse as the days go by. this is what he gets for being IN BED with the racist bigoted misfits.
This man can’t be much of an attorney, to the point that he has to build his defense (NOT) around his taking orders/advice from people such as the misfits of OZ. this man needs actually needs to pay a visit to the Wizard himself because, IMO he has not got all that GOD promised him.
He has neither a HEART or a BRAIN.
Please excuse typos.
Can anyone let me me know where in the hearing this information was revealed? Because if the photo of the gun wasn’t even Trayvon’s, then the Zidiots have even less then the nothing they already had on the whole “Trayvon had a gun!” nonsense.
……….& There it is!! BDLR just brought it home!!! M’OM had to information all along & retrieved it all by him wittle self!!!
What a jerk.
Bernie has a fantastic “shit eating grin”, it may rival Nelson’s
Dude just realized he done effed up!
MOM accusses Bernie of making things up!!!!
Bernie getting going for the kill…
MOM: says “mischaracterization… he just makes it up.”
Judge says you can cross him on this.
B: How many other cases have you checked to see if evidence was turned over to the defense (in 14 years)?
Idiot: None that I can recall
this idiot does not even know when to lie
Right! How about I can’t recall. He needs to return to his sandbox.
heck h can lie and say he checked but found nothing
no one would ever know
Over 14 years, K recalls no other cases where he has questioned whether discovery has or has not been turned over.
probably a formerly closeted zimpologist
Someone is getting frustrated & red in the face b/c his lies are being laid bare at the worlds feet!!…lmao
Is that an objection mr. White?
Yes your honour?
Overruled.
Too simple. I wish it had been:
Is that an objection, Mr. White?
No, Your Honor. That was an ostrich.
Sustained. When you want to make that ostrich into an objection it will be overruled.
Lol
You can always make me laugh.
Amazing..what did he think was gonna happen on the stand? Bernie would offer him tea and crumpets?
he is a fucking child!
Bernie did not disappoint. I asked for a rip in this dude’s ass and GOT IT!
a truck to drive through!!
good grief
BIG ole Mack Truck
CTFU! Yes he is a child! He has no idea what he has done to himself. *SMH*
White is pitiful How do you think it’s not relelvant to ask if this guy was pissed about being accused of previously leaking private information.
OMG! This is not the 1st time this guy has pulled something like this… What an idiot!
OMG!
K says never provided the bin file to anyone outside the office, only verbal description to Mr. White.
K is no forensic expert in this area. B established K never went to Cell-brite, Osteen (sp) did.
B: Why a concern if you didn’t do anything wrong?
Now on his employment history in this field, city then SAO. Started with SAO under Corey.
Issues with your supervisor? Hmmms…. haws….
His access, downgraded his authority — less number of people, shorter lunch hour, etc, curtailed before any of this going on.
Where is B going with this? Disgruntled and wanting to make waves?
April 2013, early April, B and Ms. Corey, re: his access to information that was leaked on a blog (personal employee health info put out). Either you or someone else, who had done this. One of two people, K admits.
Other person,— White?
K goes to the one other person potentially that did this blog personal info release and ‘hires’ him as a lawyer.
White is keeping potential enemies (aka client) closer?
He hires a lawyer who doesn’t even have an office or keep files.
Geez…
Okay so help me out here. Fogen’s lawyers made an allegation that BDR hid evidence. Has it been proven today that he has hid no evidence? The defense complained about the costs associated with getting the info from Trayvon’s phone. That is not up to the state, the defense has big money donors. Now the IT guy got on the stand and said, no BDR has not hid anything, right? Also the defense was talking about the pictures last year.
I’m not seeing how they figured the pics were relevant. A black hand holding a gun, a pic that we all know was deleted off the phone pre-Fogen. What do they prove when Fogen had a REAL gun that he used to murder a child. A gun he took everywhere.
They didn’t have to buy the software. They could have had the BIN file translated by an IT consultant who did.
Thanks. So they did have the info. The state withheld nothing. It was up to them to hire someone to extract info from it. This was proven today?
Are we all getting a clicking noise something like a racking noise every so often, and would that be a stenographer? Can’t recall ever hearing it in other hearings so maybe and (we are phasing them out over here if we haven’t already done so).
Yeah, we hear that sound when someone post a comment on the chat below. You can go to the bottom and turn off the sound.
Silly me, was that simple, thanks everso for that… was annoying me somewhat.
IT guy on stand is either really unethical, really sloppy or really stupid, if not all three. I don’t see him hanging on to his job for long after this.
Yeah, he’s done.
There it is!
Zimmerman is a bloated mess! Eeeeeew!
He looks utterly disgusting. He must have health issues now.
Be careful now, youngin
the question is have you had issues or disagreement with your new boss?
LMAO
Oh, Bernie is going there RIGHT NOW.
“How did you feel after you left the office?”
“Errr… I’m sorry, can you repeat the question?”
The guy nearly sh@t himself…
Hamanah hamanah hamanah…..
OK, the IT guy was “not an attorney” so that is the reason he did not know to go to his own boss, his own office, to check on what he should do about his concerns.
BUT he formulated some concerns about how the information was being handled based upon legal considerations of what is proper for prosecution and defense to DO while taking part in a criminal trial and dealing with evidence. And he acted on those concerns, including hiring his own attorney to facilitate? Did I get that right?
@Malisha — That’s about it. Jawdropping, huh?
(Meanwhile, Fogen still wondering “But what about meeeeeee!)
@Malisha
You got that right. He is “conveniently ignorant.”
If Bernie did nothing wrong, why are these idiots still on the stand?! This seems like a ploy to me from sleeze ball O’Mara to keep the “prosecution misconduct” headline up as long as possible! Why doesn’t Bernie just pass and let the judge rule?!
Is this from the O’Mara school of no cross-examination?
okay, he ONCE worked with the State… I’m clear now-still his ethics is questionable.
Mr. White told him that he needed to talk with O’Mara although he himself decided not to inform Corey and team??? He is the IT Director of the State, am I right?
Veddy strange.
This is teetering on the verge of a Jurrasic fail for the defense.
YQ… You might want to rephrase that question to… “He was the IT Director of the State?”…
I hope he has a confirmed new position… because Corey and co. will be gunning for his ass after this. I have a feeling his work environment will become VERY VERY hostile, until he types up his e-mail of resignation.
CTFU! He is young and dumb… and again I say, Everyone that comes in contact with Fogen becomes a loser and gets slimmed.
No one is gonna hire his ass now since he can’t keep his mouth shut and has shown himself to be a TRAITOR!
Bernie De La Rionda is in his A-S-S!
Get um Bernie!
He said well who said you should meet with Mr. O’Mara instead of speaking to me…
Answer: My Attorney
Bernie: So Mr. White told you to meet with Mr. O’Mara…
BOOM!!!… Mr. White revenge further exposed!
Bernie is a BEAST!
(wftv on news and weather, WESH is up)
he does not recall when he spoke to O’Mara this week
LMAO
oh what a tangled web we weave
bwa ha ha ha ha ha
SMDH…unbelievable! !
.
Still can’t hear Judge Nelson.
Punk ass White couldn’t remember ish when he was questioned on the stand. Now he wants to show out in front of a national audience.
Go sit yo ass down!
go sat down lol in (TYLER PERRY ~madea) voice
this kid is an idiot
answer yes or no
don’t give an attorney material to work with
you will not win that battle young one
he asks questions for a living
you don’t answer them for a living
Someone put a bug in his ear. Ooo…. now Q about about his convo with MOM.
B “What Day?”
K: don’t remember”
B: Who told you, you meet with Mr. O’Mara?
K: Mr. White…. my attorney…. (plans for conf. call.)
BOOM on Omara, his … objection was a speaking objection and was…. ‘mischaracterization’.
(WFTV just went to weather…feed off now)
This one’s still up for the moment. HLN has it on TV, too.
http://wildabouttrial.com/george-zimmerman-live-stream.html
This kid is in waaay over his head and it’s written all over his face… and in the shaking in his voice.
WAYYYYYYYY over his fucking head
I have to wonder how they greased his pot to get his foolish ass into this sham
What I would give to know how this idiot got himself roped in. White is nearing retiring but idiot is still wet behind the ears.
total ‘deer in the headlights’ action. he’d just better head on over to the unemployment office when he finishes testifying.
Zimmerman is like magnet that attracts foolish people! Is everyone on his team going to make public asses of themselves?
Um, guessing yes . . .
ohhhhhhh now Mr White jumps up and objects but when he was in the BBOX he didn’t remember SHIT ohhhh but now you wanna put your lawyer cape on BOL LMBO
What a punk!
lol
K: “You said two different things”
B: “Did you ask for a clarification?”
K: “No Sir, I didn’t.”
“Burger King” trending on Bing-lol
Wasn’t Burger King in Europe in the news recently for having horse-meat contamination in it’s beef burgers?
Think it was along with a lot of supermarkets.
Frustrating to lose audio and video
That happened last time, ok today on my end. Sometimes good to have a second window open and ready to click on, or running volume down.
*gives Bernie a standing ovation*
Bernie eating his ass up
Bernie is skewering this jackass!!!
@ Tzar
This poor sap offers a teacheable moment for employees. It is: STAY IN YOUR LANE!!!! If you are an IT guy, do THAT job. The State of Florida Prosecutors have no obligation to talk about case strategy with an IT guy. It is not your business to speculate on what “evidence” will or will not be given to anybody.
The second teachable moment is: Be smart enough to understand what team you are on.
and if you are gonna go after the DA’s office you better bring some serious guns
good grief, this is fucking amateur hour
BOOM!! Judge Nelson smacks down Mr. White, teaches him what the rules are for objections in her courtroom. No argument, only ‘legal objections’ .
this joker is dying to be heard!! lol another attention seeker..
He wants to be SA! Jackass!
Anyone else lose video?
me too.. I can’t see just hear.
On WFTV, no loss (yet).
I have at least audio here
http://wildabouttrial.com/george-zimmerman-live-stream.html
BOOM and there you have it folks, was not comfortable going to Corey because of her relationship with Bernie.
Boom, he is getting FIRED…
“I don’t understand the question.”
LMAO – BULLEFFNSHIT!!
Get him, Bernie, gethimgethimgethim.
@ tstas
I usually luv me some men with either locs of modest size afros-but I’ll make an exception for Bernie ’cause he’s the MAN.
correction: . . . . “or” modest size afros
Bernie and his TEAM are ready……………………………………..
GET HIM BERNIE!!!!
Bernie bout to eat his ass up in regards to the file dump
Here comes Bernie…
Get him, Bernie! I wanna see a rip in his ass.
haha me to
I’d love to see a body language expert interpret all Fogen’s earlobe pulling and tip of nose rubbing.
Plus the way his beady little eyes jerk back and forth. He’s thinking, “Am I winning … am I winning ? Any chance they’ll just call the whole murder trial thing off today, and I can just grab what’s left of the money and run? “
it’s self comforting. he feels sad and needs some soothing.. yuk!
ugggggggg…… full body shivers. thanks
Maybe he’s hoping it will start bleeding again.
Look how White is smirking at the defense table.
I saw that. Makes you just want to smack it right off his face.
Let’s get ready to rumble.
Oh, yeah! Go get’em Bernie!
^^Guys typo error
oimara is a pathetic lawyer manz, he just asked the witness a question that he didnt know how they would answer…trying to show the witness knew nothing about axes to grind but the witness siad YES he did suspect it!
Robert Zimmerman JR @rzimmermanjr 20m
Whistleblower says he discovered pics of underage naked women, pile of jewelry on bed on #trayvonmartin phone. BDLR said “Deal with it.”
Details
Robert Zimmerman JR Robert Zimmerman JR @rzimmermanjr 33m
Kruidbos hints at deleted info that was not in “source file”. Concerned file was not complete & his attys would not have good information.
Details
oh god lets have a pity party right NOW pOOORRRRRRRRRRR guy!!
looks like these broke the chain of command how can you contact/call the defense before even going to your own boss ????? seriously this is crazy
why all of this BS my concern is 2/26/2012 …….. this I.T. guy is a mess
Bernie is going to nail him.
OM’s getting red in the face and looks like he’s struggling.
Plug ins are irrelevant. O’Mara’s own expert should know the protocol to access al the data, and clearly they did since O’Mara had the info for the depositions in March.
I’m sick of this bullsheet. When do we get to know what was on GZ’s phone??!!!
EXACTLY! This is getting on my last nerve. Blah blah, irrelevant.
What DIFFERENCE does it make, if BDLR asked how much it costs? The defense is responsible for their own expenses or filing for indigency and letting the state pay for it. O’Mara can’t have it BOTH ways. He’s on my effing nerves!
Well no prob: they can buy a whole new courthouse once all the decent Americans send their money to Fogen for his expensive defense.
The expensive defense is one where his lawyers have to pay for lobotomies for all the jurors and then they get to write in big red letters on big yellow poster-boards: INNOCENT.
That should do it.
Then they can buy a whole new country after that.
True… they raked in enough money from donations from these losers to take care of it all.
Hold on. How come “What did he say?” does not get someone jumping up saying, “Objection hearsay”? Why does one bozo get to talk about what someone said to him when another bozo doesn’t get to do that? What am I missing?
BLDR is going to skewer him.
I simply can’t wait
I asked the same question when O’Mara asked White what people who had access to something he did not have access to “knew”.
For a narcissist like Fogen, it must be frustrating to listen to all this. He’s thinking “but what about mmeeeeee?”
Do you see how his brother is sitting there craning his neck to get into the camera view?
LOLO yep as a matter of fact i’m gonna check and see what he’s texting. his dream is to be a #Superstar!!
I think Joon-Yawn (jr) is auditioning for employment at Fox
What does this have to do with what happened to Trayvon Martin on Feb 26th 2012?
I *think* they are somehow going to try to say that Bernie didn’t give over all the info – but not until the get all this irrelevant stuff out there first to poison the potential jurors.
Bernie just took care of that! Ahahaha
ZIP!
Does the IT guy think he is an attorney?
Assumption of who’s hand is holding the picture of the gun? Really?? I guess I know nothing about what is and what is not evidence during a trial!
Exactly and if there going to use certain pictures, the should all be displayed, all the other pictures of Trayvon being normal.
Right! This picking and choosing is bull crap! They are the bottom of the barrel! Bernie is about to tear his ass up! Wonder if he “assumed” Bernie would cross him? Idiot
funny he said that he assumed that the hand was Trayvon’s… did he know what Trayvon’s hand looked like? this is BS for real.
why of course, all blackish hands look alike! don’tcha know!!
see this is exactly what Professor was saying the other day, this is where the scum team infects the public with irrelevant and false information- thru motions and these types of hearings!!
I never doubt the Professor, he has called everything dead on..
There were no naked females that night, Trayvon had no gun or jewelry that night so WTF does any of this have to do with that night?!!!
Sigh.
I would be more concerned if a seventeen year old had pictures of naked elderly women on his phone 🙂 lol
How do we define elderly 🙂 🙂 🙂
completely subjective but I think for this context I think anyone who has considered getting a “lifestyle lift”
lol
Yeah, exactly! LOL
And WTF if a17-year old of today has pics of underage naked females on his phone, indeed had they been of a naked adult then there could be a case for charges against the adult, at least over here in the UK, as Trayvon was underage.
I’m getting tired of all the references to “underaged” females as if Trayvon was some perv and not underaged himself, making these “underaged girls” his peers.
they need to be more concerned with what’s on GZs phone!
I’m sure many parents would be in a state of ‘shock and awe’ if they accessed text and pics from their teens phone. None of which is relevant to the case against GZ!!! Point, blank, period!
They’re just pictures, not as if he is an alter boy molester.
This is insane. Let’s concentrate on the killer’s gun.
@ay2z
He wants to get back at Angela Corey with a vengeance.
If there were 900 pages why did they pick and chose what to release. If those are the only items out of 900 then they don’t have much. a few photos and just those text messages…jeez what losers
At recess, overheard what didn’t sound like defense people, so assume it was state people talking about ‘…. if she denies we will move on to…. ”
So, if the Judge does not deny, and if they were talking about this sanctions motion, does this mean Bernie might be off the case today?
This may the only purpose, even if everything is smoke and mirrors and misinfo, it will take Bernie longer to get through this and meanwhile off the case?
Defense must be afraid of him to do this.
Watch White at the defense table, in good camera catching position, slung back casual style in the chair, red tie. Bright red tie. Stands out. Tell me this guy is not a politician first.
Kribos (sp and not going to try to fix)– O’Mara knows all this stuff now to ask the questions, but didn’t know he was asking for Bit files only from the state?
I don’t think so, I believe they are talking about moving on to the Frye portion of the hearing. If she dosn’t deny she might hold the ruling over until after the trial, with the other sanction motions.
If you’re Jack, who’s Chrissy and Janet?
LMAO
(3’s company reference for the tadpoles)
If you’re Jack, who’s Chrissy and Janet?
LMAO
(3′s company reference for the tadpoles)
Can’t image Bernie would be off the case because of this kind of nonsense.
Good, so this is all for the jury. (besides the personal political agenda of White)
Defense in April, asked a witness about the gun and text message in a depo. Mr. K speculated but Mr. O’Mara knew on April 25th, 2012.
“Obviously you would have sent him the source file.”
K mentions ‘text about a gun’ that O’mara didn’t have, but oops….
Who was playing this guy, didn’t define assumptions for this Mr. K?
Definition, of Mr. White of ‘assumption’ “making an ass out of you and me.”
(note how junior is seated in camera view again– familiarity for public consumption)
I can’t stand it that these fools think they are entitled to have their work done for them.. they could PAY ANOTHER EXPERT TO examine the bin file and use their software, just like every other lawyer !!!!
$8K for the software is not the prosecution’s problem. O’Mara is back to the money again.
@Nef05. Right on! When O’Mara took the case, he was suppose to weigh costs. It’s like a janitorial company taking on a huge client then saying they had to spend $8K on equipment in order to perform their job. I use “janitorial” having GZ as a client is the same as taking on a huge pile of shit.
It is painfull watching people talking about something they don’t know anything about. O’Mara is going to get his ass handed to him.
If I didnt know better I’d think Trayvon was on trial! Why aren’t they talking about what’s on Fogens phone. Fogen’s fat ass is going to rot and burn in hell!
Big Willie … First, we should marinate in muratic acid.
Really, like I said before, the phone could have been used previous by someone else or was bought used. Some of the photos could have just been saved off the internet and they can’t prove those items were actually Trayvon’s. All this is not going to be used so why are they wasting time on this crap.
although that is possible, a lot of phone files (photos in particular) do have dates embedded. also, the martin family would know if the phone was used, as would their carrier. it doesn’t really matter though since none of it will be admissible.
Question: Why are they wasting time with all of this if…
1. The information was in the possesion of the defense since January and
2. The information is not admissable anyway?
I think the defense is playing games-making a big deal out of the BS to get the upperhand.
Well it’s not going to work, what a waste of time and money
Sybrina Fulton will be on The View @ 11am EST
Thanks
that’s tomorrow i just saw on the view they said friday
Thank you!
???? WTF is in the water over there in Florida? I’m seriously worried about them…
Rene Stutzman tweeted
Zimmerman hearing delayed a bit because of concern that attys conversations with each other are being live streamed.
This young man is ruining his reputation as a confidential and trustworthy employee… he is too young to have allowed White and company to get him involved in this.
His reputation will be mudd after this.
Cheap HLN lost the coverage!!!
ya he is done
he pulled the very worse move in hierarchical settings
the “end around”
no good can come of this for him
if you are going to pull the end around, you better decimate the enemy.
I think he’s already been suspended for this..any one know for sure?
believe me a suspension is just the beginning because
there is simply no way he can remain there
I hope he has an idea of what he is in for
ITS BACK ON!!!
The guy claimed he never seen the emails
then later says they are about gun sales
and then says he has no records of where the files came from and not sure where they are from
Did this douche get his job out of pity?
@Jun
For real. And look at him sitting there smirking.
I dont know
I dont remember
I dont recall
Sounds a lot like Fogen, no wonder he was hired by Fogen LOL
I tried to tally them up once. I think I counted 57 ‘I don’t know.’, ‘I don’t recall.’ And ‘I don’t remember’, just from those few conversations Zimmerman had with Singleton Serino and Ervin.
Mr.White want revenge,and he also got that sh@t fogen got he can’t remember nothing. What is funny is that he wanted this case,now he is trying to help the defense. I think Mr. White would feel better if BDLR just give him a hug poor Mr.White aint nothing like a scorn man.
i just got sick to my stomach i was reading the channel 6 live news feed someone said that their neighbor received a summons and that the person supports GZ 100% and would do anything to get on the jury OMG this is sickening
save that screen name and send it into the state’s email. and take a screenshot if you can.
Comment From lakemary
My neighbor has a summons and he watches the news every night and totally supports GZ he says he will do anything to get on the jury
here is the link i got it from the live channel 6 click Orlando link the comment came from lakemary
Thanks. I’m gonna try and find it.
Shannon i posted the comment ill try to repost
Comment From lakemary
My neighbor has a summons and he watches the news every night and totally supports GZ he says he will do anything to get on the jury
Don’t get sick to your stomach, act! Send the screenshot or username to the prosecutor. No stealth jurors!
You mean Fogen is going to testify? Why, in a hearing about sanctions and methods used by experts?
nah, I don’t think he testifys here, but if the defense motion is denied, he’ll be pretty much the only witness left it seems.
<then again, I could be wrong…
No, in his trial. He supposedly wants to. LOL
Maan, I hope so. I will literally call sick out of work to see that.
I think she meant during the trial. Wishful thinking on your part:)
@truthseeker66-lol, she was talking about the hearing but as for the trial… IDK
GZ will get his goose cooked on the stand by Bernie.
You have NO idea how much I can’t wait to see that!!!!
It’s going to be rough ride for him… although I’d be naive to think that MOM doesn’t have anything else in his back pocket. They forgoed the immunity hearing in part bc they didn’t want to give away the complete gameplan. Regardless of whom or what, it’s gonna be intriguing to see how GZ explains how the body got so far away from the vehicle without a freudian slip. Must see TV.
MO’M would be a fool to let him talk. Oh wait – he is a fool.
Great. Finally get my work done for a while, and they recess. LOL
Ditto! (Actually, my response to you Rachael ended up above. Fogen looks like he’s sucking on a sourball this morning. Wonder if it’s beginning to dawn on him that he’s going on trial for murder2 next week.)
He does look a little panicky.
So they didn’t turn over evidence, yet O’Mara has them? (AND THEY WERE RULED INADMISSIBLE)
Where did the Defense get them?
Clearly the tech guy has an axe to grind too. I’m speculating that he looked for a back channel to the defense and found one via Wes White. He felt he had a “gotcha” set of photos that the defense could use to API t the prosecution as obstructionist with and so set about complaining to his buddy Becaue he wanted to stay on the payroll but still leak information from the SA office to the defense.
I’m not surprised he’a probably going to get fired. What’s germane is the implication that he (the computer IT guy) may have illegally shared information with the defense. BDLR implied that the defense was asking people they deposed about the gun in hand photo BEFORE this Wes White character allegedly made them aware of the fact of their existence.
ding ding ding — on the money, willis!
Yep, the IT guy has *problems*
I’m interested in the name he uses to post on line and his personnel file. He’s way too invested in giving the defense info he believes will offer o’mara the upper hand.
So depositions in Miami, where O’Mara asked about the picture with a gun, were before these guys contacted O’Mara?
That’s the way that it appears, what big dummies…
I see another big,fat DENIED coming their way, shortly.
Crane and I have to head out to a doctor’s appointment.
The problem with the lack of volume for the judge was that she had her computer blocking the mike.
I know … it’s the pits. Just got back, and all I see is seal of the Great State. .
Sorry … this was meant in response to Rachael’s comment. But I guess it fits here as well. Ideally, this mic blockage will be fixed after recess.
@Professor & Crane
You guys be careful and stay safe.
So during a deposing of a witness back in March, the photos and text messages where mentioned. Jeez
How long is the recess? I need TEA. And to keep it away from the screen, LOL!
Attorney White has shown us exactly why he has only had two criminal cases in his 33 years career… he is emotional, rude and unprofessional. He doesn’t even know how to conduct himself in the court. That entire scene after he was dismissed was crazy and then he left the courtroom with his client being called to the stand next.
furthermore, he is not a good strategist
how could he go to war with the DA’s office and stay in frank communications with people who still work there (Hughes (sp))?
how could he think he could trust anyone who works there to even be in proximity to them?
Then to have all this baggage and nothing to explain it away
good grief
Fogen – Blink blink eye roll blink blink. There he goes again with the eyeball morse code.
And oath my ass. This guy flat out admitted that he only talk to MoM didn’t verify anything etc. Ugh time for another hot sugary piece of beignet.
So, they only told him about the pictures/texts, they didn’t GIVE them to hi? Which means O’Mara got the items on his own, which he could have done all along? Are they SERIOUS with this???
O’mara is too bright, I’m glad he is Zimmerman’s attorney.
I meant isn’t too bright..
yeah, but he’s very cunning though. and that’s scary.
butttttt, the state did not give them the actual decoded information! They think the state should handle the expenses of the defense as well as the prosecution!
They are nuts! Judge Nelson must have the patience and restraint of an angel, with them bringing all this garbage into her courtroom..
I think George’s weird looks are because he can’t understand why Mr. White is such a crappy liar. George knows lying, and this ain’t how it’s done!
Ha! … White should have consulted with Fogen on how to embellish and embroider. This “I don’t recall” biz is strictly for amateurs. 🙂
vulgarity of it??
seems like White is the vulgar one.
This guy is a fucking tool
If Bernie is telling you that Hewes (sp) you said to him
then you are dead to rights
what a jackass
It’s kind of excruciating, watching BDLR at this guy.
Pissing out than pissing in?
You are nasty, Mr. Sanctions Guy.
Nasty & mean!
stick a fork in ’em
I think there are “experts” who jump into this case because they want the exposure, knowing that there is no actual downside for THEM if they make total asses of themselves and if no good is done for Fogen by their “participation.” It’s become a sort of psychosocial “thing” to jump into the case. It was started by Taaffe when he made himself an “expert” on what “Trayvon-like dudes” had done to so anger his best friend Fogen. Then Oliver jumped in, Osterman jumped in, that goofy “expert” who couldn’t measure five inches and who shot bullets into cardboard jumped in, blah blah blah. I think people are drawn into the frey thinking that they will become celebrities and/or get business — and perhaps they will, if they look for business from corrupt racist bigots who can fondly remember that they tried to save Fogen from his fate. This could develop into something.
I knew the text messages and photos were deleted in the past, they were not current items on Trayvon’s phone. How can they determine how old someone is by looking at a photo? The problem I with with old data is, that the phone may have been used or owned by someone previous. I just took over my son’s phone and let me tell you I know he probably has some dirty pics.
* have
That’s one of the problems Omar will have, trying to authenticate material that’s probably not going to be admissible anyway.
Excellent point. The first few times I gave my son a cell, it was used, also. He kept losing them and I wasn’t springing for a new one until he proved he could hold onto it.
Back to the “I can’t recall…” meme. He’s so special. pffftt!
Fogen doesn’t look thrilled. Or can barely stay awake.
The latter. Not on a med holiday today, looks like.
All that ativan and clonopin. And a little valium and a bit of vodka. Just for his nerves. You know, having to deal with the angry Pba-lack mob and all and what with the stress and tension of those kids he used to mentor now being abandoned and out there all on their own without his help…
Pooboy. Boo Hoo. Junior go give him a hug… Hey where’s Gracie?
Fogen looks drugged once again. I didn’t think he was gonna show up for this hearing so I’m a bit surprised. He blinks very slowly! All that effort to get the eyelid DOWN and BACK UP again! If he only had taken a bit of time firing that hollow-point bullet! “Too fast shoot, too slow blink.”
Oh he is off his meds now probably…and yet he still shows no remorse
off his meds=hence the weight gain-he was probably addicted to them.
Oh, I’m certain he’s still on his meds. He’s always had a flat affect and that creepy blinking, but he looks less about to nod out than last time we saw him. I’m guessing they doubled down on the anti anxiety and anti depressants and removed the amphetamines all together. I can’t imagine how they’re going to calibrate his meds before he takes the stand.
Fogen is drugged to the hilt, how much of this is he retaining?
@ Malisha
I’m concerned that GZ will be snoring so loudly in court in about an hour that he will disturb witness testimony. During the short recess he should get a cup of coffee. Oops-forgot about his IBS. Coffee might not be such a good idea.
Once again-he’s screwed no matter what he does. Karma has a way of coming at you in such ironic ways.
He’s not so concerned about atty-client privilege when MOM questions him….
he seems to be a disgruntled former employee……its def a good thing that Corey didn’t let him handle the Zimmerman/martin case he wouldn’t remember anything
Even Michelangelo couldn’t create a piece of work such as this guy!
“Honestly, I don’t recall any.”
Were the other memory problems not “honestly”?
think i’m having acid flashbacks to the iran-contra hearings
Stop it! You just made me snort tea out my nose!
How can he answer a question abou what “others who have access” might know?
well what do you know, his recollection is improved now that liemara is asking the questions
Bernie was right after all
These are, like the questions Erwin asked Fogen on the voice stress test, questions that White actually LIKES to answer.
Yup.
BDLR’s demonstration of White’s anger and selective memory pretty much destroyed White’s credibility.
No.
So, Sanctions Guy hasn’t done anything, can’t remember anything…
LOL!
So if this guy don’t remember anything, and doesn’t have any independent knowledge of anything, what the hell is he doing there?
oh my Rene is in the background ughhhhhhh
Seems that she and O’Mara had some sort of a falling out recently, he didn’t return her calls?
bol lmbo
I saw her! 😦
I hope she feels like shit with all the bad journalism that she has been spewing
seconded
O’Mara is even more adorable
I can’t wait to hear their other experts. I can’t wait. I can’t wait to hear their witnesses answer questions. I cannot (TF) wait for this!
How is it he remembers know?
HLN is using a breaking news banner claiming “Prosecution accused of misconduct”. They are on my nerves. I don’t recall them using a “breaking news” banner stating that O’Mara falsified evidence and apologized.
*Should say falsely represented evidence…
We got your HLN. Right here. We’ll unspin this shit.
I read the blog instead of watching the hearings, my iPad doesn’t like flash & I can’t split screen, that I know of. It is more fun reading what happened here than watching mom & gang drag everyone around in circles. They are a scary bunch, very dangerous.
Imagine that, you report misconduct to Mark O’Mara and not the Bar Association?
or the judge … IANAL but, that would be my first inclination
KEY ADMISSION: White admitted that he did not know if there was any misconduct.
He just gave Bernie a go to hell look…hilarious
fucking adorable!!!!
this dude is making a mockery of the system
Sanction Guy just got backhanded, Mr. O’Mara.
Did he really go there in COURT?
he is a jackass
Leatherman come get this guy, he’s making your attorney people look bad
BDLR questioning Sanctions about obligations to report misconduct…
“Oh, I see. You forget things you don’t like to remember.”
Mr. Sanctions Guy: Do you need a head CT scan, for your memory?
LOL!
Why is this guy still on the stand?! NEXT!
I told yall Bernie was gonna hand O’Mara his ass at this hearing… (pops collar)
@FactsFirst. Go on and dust your shoulder off. Nobody’s mad at ya. 🙂
@ FactsFirst
**dead @ pops collar
OH LOOK! Bernie is besides White showing him the letter. And dude still claiming…I oin’t remember nuttin.
Wow. Tuned in late – this is spectacular. Thank goodness I can catch up later.
“Do you have problems remembering things?”
Even more waterboarding…
So, Bernie fired him.
He doesn’t remember.
😉
Bernie de la Rionda rocks! He’s kicking a hole in this dude’s natural ass.
Email was a resignation….
Stick a fork, Mr. Sanctions Guy is done, right?
honestly…he is fucking adorable. smh
😀
Ah, hell! Another wannabe superhero.
Do you suppose O’Mara can argue that some of the witnesses can appear under anonymity of white robe and hood?
we’ll call it a modified screen your honor
HAHaaaaa…
*rimshot*
LOL! He might try.
What I want to now is if he wants to argue that HIS witnesses can testify behind a screen, is he willing to allow DeeDee to do the same? We know he wants her face plastered all over the media, so the Zimmerman supporers can intimidate her.
Nef, The way they’ve tried to hunt down DeeDee, and the lengths they’ve gone to, to find any tiny nugget of information as to her identity, I truly fear for her life. Intimidation would be the very best we could hope for. I fear for her life, if they know who she is and can get to her. We’re talking white supremacists and gun freaks.
BDLR is making this guy look like a FOOL!
LOL! Totally!
GZ must be soiling himself right now.
Ha! Amsterdam, You got it. It’ll be a Depends Festival for the defense.
He should be so careful when Bernie let’s him ramble on but he is not, lol
This guy is one bitter bish!
“My ethical constraints…”
STFU, Mr. Angry Sanctions-Bigot.
BTW What does Sanctions Guy have to say about O’Mara making shit up?
what bigoted thing did he say/infer, I couldn’t hear everything cas omar kept interrupting I think??
but I can see he’s def an angry lil biacht!!
What the actual fuck?
“Do you know why it was wiped clean?”
The fuck is Jesse Jacksonville?
“I was concerned about whether YOU”.
Note: Not “I am concerned about the STATE”, but “I was concerned about YOU” (with emphasis).
Could dude be any more obvious or hostile (as the prof. and others have noted)?
Totally
Ditto.
Get this liar out of there.
Has anyone one else noticed that HLN nor TruTv are streaming this hearing?! In Session has on some case I’ve never heard of, and HLN has kicked this hearing to the curb for MORE coverage of todays BIG story. Paris Jackson’s attempted suicide!
Nell Carter isn’t the only one who needs a break.
Has CNN/HLN been absorbed by Fox or something? They’ve changed recently. And it’s kinda scary.
I personally can’t believe they aren’t showing this hearing. it has to be because they are scared of the racists and don’t know what side to pick. it’s obviously not for lack of interest in this case. I swear I couldn’t believe they had a show last night about paris Jackson!! WTF cares if a spoiled rich kid wants more attention!!
this case is bringing out the apathy about racism in the media.
HLN had the hearing on, in bits, with comments and expectations about Seacrat testifying in his case. They are pretty much like the BAR, who believes that the general public doesn’t understand or have interest in pre-trial hearings. That is why HLN mainly provides trials.
Will he ever get business again after this?
What incompetence.
This guy never checked with Bernie to see if any of these documents had been provided.
White sure has selective memory.
@SG2
Yes he does, just like the defendant
And he wants to be SA? GTFOOH!
No the prosecution didn’t do anything wrong, they had the raw data
thank you!
Could this guy’s agenda be any more obvious?
Question for professor- did the prosecution do something wrong here?
@ chi1224. I love your gravatar. This is my absolute favorite. When it rains, it pours.
Damn get this man out here…they had the damn material
Oh here we go, he is a bigot as well as a misogynist, a two-fer.
I can’t wait for BDR to question Fogen on the stand! Go State of FL!
Was it….
A conference call?
In the office?
In a stripper bar?
I could here Judge Nelson pretty clear here.
” A concern is not an objection”
MOM: I think I’ll sit down then.
judge: yes.
no office, no iPad, no technical capability, no recall…
and no lawyer?
TZAR – Heck yeah….
I think we can all agree that Bernie is going to be just fine with his handling of this case
Roger that!
granted these guys are making it easy but we have seen him rattle 2 attorneys on the stand
AAAbsolutely!
I so want Zimmerman on the stand so that Bernie can rip him to shreds. I hope the defense decides to put him on the stand. That would make my day! He’d probably double up on his medications to help him through his testimony and to stay as calm as possible!
Wow! This guy is incredibly hostile.
Handled only 2 cases, but he does know which way the streets run in Nassau County and he knows the difference between a pulp mill and pogey (sp).
I can’t believe he is that hostile
he should know better
YES! The man is very bitter. Who cares about poke mills and which way streets are. Seems as if he has a sense of entitlement as if HE was owed a specific job. And for an attorney who knew he would be on the stand he sure “doesn’t recall” a lot. Where are your records sir???
“Pogy plant”
Good morning! I couldn’t figure what a pogy or pogey was or is. But thought the pulp mill makes paper from raw cellulose, and a pogey plant makes pogies. Then I thought the lawyer was making a sarcastic comment, about the plant making not products first and foremost, but making work for unemployed people.
Golly cheeze whiz, that witness had a bad memory, just like fogen and even worse than West.
Doesn’t know his ass from his elbow.
But one of them itches.
Pulp mills near JAX really stink … as does White.
Sanctions guy:
Doesn’t have an office.
Doesn’t recall anything.
This guy needs a lawyer.
Mr. Sanctions: You need to lawyer up.
check!
Doesn’t have an ipad either.
WTF does White know?
@ SG2
It appears that the only thing White knows is that his boss, Ms. Corey, finally realized that he was a bottom feeder who sexually harassed women and was an incompetent lawyer. And he knew he would no longer be able to act like Marshall Dillon with his removable blue light on his car and his big cowboy hat.
**BOOM**!
and which way the roads run in nassau
He can’t seem to recall anything..
soooooo basicly this White kat is a hater with an axe to grind… k… I get it…
You got it. (Am still looking for link posted on this blog detailing all the hassle with the sheriff, including sexual harassment with a female linked to the sheriff.)
Pope mill and a pogie plant? What the heck is that and what does it have to do with the price of tea in China?
Damn, did he just say that…
Problem with women, Mr. Sanctions Guy?
All over the place. Harrassment of colleague, female boss problems. Dude has issues, for real.
Is it me, or has the Michelin Man lost a few pounds? DId he and Chris Christie get a two for one deal or something?
Fat Hawk Down/snark
Apology up front, Christie did have bariatric surgery recently.
Fat Hawk Down. lol. I do hope HE crashes and burnes.
His face is bloated. Don’t know what his deal is. He could be on some sort of drug.
naaa … they just broke down and bought him a bigger jacket with the recent cash influx.
Hey, that’s my ‘gubnah’ you’re poking fun at. LOL
fauxmccoy, I’m with you. All photos coming forth show him to look just as slim and svelte as before. It’s the bigger suit, IMO. And he still looks like a toad.
When a lawyer wants to question a witness about a document, he must have the document marked for identification purposes by the clerk.
Then he has the clerk hand it to the witness.
The witness reviews the document and identifies it,
The lawyer moves the document into evidence.
The judge admits the document.
Then the lawyer questions the witness about the document.
thanks
follow- forgot to check…sorry
If he can’t remember anything, how good a director could he be? You’d have to have a reasonably good memory just to be organized, let alone try an actual case
x 2, plus his voice is shaking, even here, on the stand.
BDLR waterboarding sanctions guy now, forcing him to read his own email out loud.
bwa ha ha ha ha
Crane-Station, You are toooo funny. Thank you for the mental picture. I’m out on the w. coast, so I missed it in real time. Reading these comments is a treat like you can’t believe.
follow
anyone have a link where the judge is audible?
We are having great difficulty as well, tony reay.
Orlando Sentinel feed is inaudible from the judge, too. It’s too low to hear her rulings on the objectons.
This one is working fine for me…
http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/wftv-newscast/v3G5b/
Hope it works!
nope – still cant hear the judge’s mike – thanks tho’
Man is this getting ugly. Sanctions guy is dirty, looks like he has had run ins w/Corey office in past.
With a memory that poor, no wonder he only handled 2 cases, LOL
Bernie is eating him alive. LOL
Like Dershowitz, obviously there are people who, from their personal animus for Corey (and I’m not saying that I wouldn’t also have personal animus for her if I had anything to do with her in an employment or litigation setting) are following the often stupid Russian proverbial advice:
Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend;
Friend of my Enemy is my Enemy;
Enemy of my friend is my Enemy.
Malisha, I’ve seen a few versions of this Russian proverb (I thought it was a Muslim one), but damn, this one is the best. Thank you!
BDLR: “So this was just a meeting to say you’re doing a great job?”
And that is why people you save your emails!!!
Yes, and screen grabs of articles also comes to mind.
Good one. 🙂
“…and you had 2?”
Ah-HaHahahaaaa..
Can I have a look?…I’d be glad to!
This is really getting dirty.
BDLR: You were told your salary would be decreased…
Sanctions guy appears really shook up and furious.
Denying everything.
BDLR now discussing an email, sanctions guy denies it
annnd here comes BDLR with the “Let me see if I can refresh your memory”
ROFLOL.
White: I oin’t know nuttin bout nuttin
bernie is in fine form — go bulldogs!
Here comes the email, BAM!
This is hilarious!!!
Oh look! He wants to be a smart ass.
BDLR has attorneys ready to cry on the stand. Imagine what he would do to fogen.
Nef, What BDLR would do to fogen? Oh, man, what a beautiful thought. Beautiful. I would round up a whack of cash just to see that. Just think of the stack of Depends that fogen would go through in front of BDLR. Here’s hoping that our dream comes true.
I wish JN would lell Omar…
But we all know that in reality…………
I’m kinda in and out here – did the defense say they have a new eyewitness who saw Trayvon beating up on Z?
Mr. White sounds like he’s about to cry.
BDLR: In november of 2012, sanctions guy had issues w/job performance.
Sanctions guy denying it, blaming the sheriff…
his plan is deny deny deny!
don’t admit to anything, even if true!
and if that don’t work, smart off to Bernie.
and blame memory on anything else.
I can’t hear anything Judge sez.
Damn Bernie sexy… And he aint even tryna be.. Lawd forgive meh.. SMH!
You won’t get any argument from me! ❤
Bernie is FINE!
Women like men who are confident, intelligent, honorable, and in a position of power. Bernie is great despite is male baldness!
lol don’t get carried away now!!!LOL
Stand in line ladies. I have a crush on Bernie. 🙂
Sanctions guy also had problems w/sheriff?
Juicy story (link) on Leatherman law blog coupla days or so ago.
Oh ish! Bernie is going there!
A lawyer can always question a witness regarding possible bias or prejudice.
Bernie is attempting to show White is prejudiced against Corey’s office.
haha ill be glad to rephrase that sir go Bernie
LOL, sexual harrassment? BWA-HAhahahaaaaaa!
33 yrs and two criminal trials, is not very much trial experience. Is the witness stupid, as well?
Sanctions guy: 2 criminal trials in 33 years.
could someone please tell me WHO waits a whole year to come forward and say they were EYE witnesses to a murder????? SELMA AND MARY are not in fear the public has known about them from the beginning and NO ONE has bothered them……. Omara is so full of it… 3 new witnesses get the **** outta here
We think we have resolved the sound now, thx for patience.
Sound difficulty. Did she order to continue, on the witnesses, or denied?
Get’em, BDLR!
oh snap here’s the sanctions guy! lets hope omar gets the smack down today live!!
Bernie is chomping at the bit to ask some questions to White.
you see it too. my impression of white, jealous of bernie hater to boot.
I’m having trouble hearing the judge.
On to the motion for sanctions.
I am, as well. Must be the feed.
don;t kno which site ur watchin this on is workin great
http://wildabouttrial.com/george-zimmerman-live-stream.html
lol Bernie is ready for Mr White…….. ohhhhh this is getting good I need some popcorn
I’m bad makin bowl of carmel ice cream with pecans and choclate sauce MUDSLIDE!!!
Just like durr fense is running from this MUDSLIDE!!!!
@ic2fools bol lmbo
ahahaha tonya B
’bout outta ice cream pickin up more in a .bit i need to gain 5 pounds mudslides babi!
Names to be given to Court.
Motion for sanctions now, O’Mara…
1st motion — anonymity — DENIED!
(get used to it marky pants)
Okay okay, IC now OS PLAYED Omar this whole time givin him a print voice. Using Rene to gather as much info as possible for ammo to use against him when needed. LIKE NOW!!!! OS sure is not on his side.
AHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!! ABRACADABRA SMACK!
Omar Motion DENIED, NAMES UNDER SEAL
haha at this time the MOTION is DENIED lol
Haha Denied!
Is this the first motion… got here late.
Good morning gbrbsb! Nice seeing you this morning….
Thank you, I try never to miss the hearings… exciting this one!
your welcome, sure is exciting. getting ready to leave for a little awhile.
will continue watchin on my cell.
check ya’ laters. ypu know its takes time for us ladies to get our glam on…..
I’ll be watching while I can but it’s gonna be a long day and tomorrow… What does “ypu” mean… “you probably understand?”
I’ll be watching while I can but it’s gonna be a long day and tomorrow… What does “ypu” mean… “you probably understand?”
sorry typo it mean you. and ya’ means you also
🙂
Ok Nef, faux just posted it was 1st motion.
none of zimmy’s witnesses want the whole world to know who they are since they are lying in a court.
i’m glad Judge did her hair today, it looks perty!
and a necklace.
Poor thang, she ain’t no super Model 🙂
Maybe her granddaughter *made it* for her:)
She still looks like one tough cookie! I would never want to be on the receiving end having to have have her pass judgement on me! LOL
Shannon, Her hair does look very nice, and I like her necklace, too. Still, it makes me sick at my stomach how the outhouse sexists rag on Judge Nelson, like she’s some kind of friggen warthog. No one ever left disgusting messages about any male judge as Judge Nelson has gotten. She may not be a classic beauty, but my hope is that she is one tough and honorable judge. If she fulfills that role, then she has my life-long admiration and respect, and she can shave her head bald, for all I care. I look at her, and I see a pro.
my mom said beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
EXACTLY!
DENIED
@ Donna Flores
The Defense will hear that word a lot today- DENIED.
West appears to be searching for Kleenex.
Good Lord I hope he is not searching for his cell phone or somebody’s gonna get shot!
O’Mara arguing that his witnesses are concerned that they will have to move out of their residences if they testify, and GZ is acquitted.
Which way is the shower?
MOM certainly wasn’t concerned that, if DD’s identity or address were revealed, that she would have to move out of her residence when the Klan showed up.
Has O’Mara ever presented any credible threats since GZ was arrested? He’s pushing this new theory as if there are people still sending death threats to him. I’ve thought all along that MOM is all about setting this case up for appeal with some of these crazy motions and his constant complaining of not having enough money or time to get ready for trial. What an unprofessional POS he is!
I am not aware of any credible threats to kill or harm the defendant or any member of his family since he killed Trayvon Martin.
I do not believe he or any member of his family have reported any threats to law enforcement.
The claim that he has to hide out at a secret safehouse protected round the clock by private security guards and wear disguises and a bullet proof vest whenever he goes out is absolutely ridiculous, in my opinion.
He and O’Mara keep bringing it up to remind fearful racist whites that a violent horde of black gangstas from hell are determined to hunt him down and his parents and slaughter them all in a blood drenched orgy of spectacular brutality the likes of which haven’t been seen since Charles Manson’s followers killed the La Bianca family and Sharon Tate back in ’69.
And Lord help us all, if the jury acquits him because they will burn Florida to the ground.
He and O’Mara like to trot out this one trick pony whenever internet contributions start lagging or they want sympathy.
Never ceases to amaze me that there are people who believe this crap.
But of course, O’Mara insists that race has nothing to do with this case and he would never lie because he is such an honorable man.
Yeah, you asshole and whose fault is that?
Joonyar in grey, next to Stutzman in white. (apparently in same row, but depth perception might be off).
Stutzman may be next to woman in turquoise, just behind Joonyar and to his right.
she’s wearing a white button down.
Looks like she’s putting on weight?
jr is tweeting right in front of renee- the defense’s personal spokes person..
Trayvon’s parents must be on his right because he keeps glaring in that direction! So much anger and hate towards that family by him. sickening
Is O’Mara willing to let DeeDee testify behind a screen?
Scathingly brilliant question, Nef!
O’Mara wants an in-camera hearing.
What witness are they talking about? My stream kept stuttering when MOM spoke.
State now arguing to deny.
Not sure how John Malloy would judge the monochrome all beige look. Maybe Team Fogen testing for forthcoming jury approval purposes.
West looks like he’s been rode hard and put up wet.
Yes, Crane-Station. He looks haggard and withered, like he’s aged 10-15 years since we last saw him. Old and tired.
Abbyj- Both West and MOM look like they’ve aged a lot since taking this case.
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62
It does not look like she is going to grant…she is citing cases…could be wrong.
Follow. Thank you for this information.
OS: “They might be more reluctant to lie on the stand”
Exactly.
She makes the point that transparency encourages honesty.
Lawyer representing the Orlando Sentinel is arguing against the motion and making sense.
soooo who are these NEW witnesses???? that didn’t come out til now WOW
Fogen’s here … surprise , surprise
Can he not turn his head??? He looks sneaky and sinister when cutting his eyes! yuck
He is sneaky and sinister!
GZ looks like a big toad.
Oh, Xena. ROTF! Perfect image: like a big toad. You’re good.
Junior’s goatee makes him look like a lizard. They’re the reptile brothers.
Xena, Here’s fogen’s high school prom photo:
@abbyj. ROFLOL at picture.
What’s the name of that character in a Star War’s movie that looked like a toad with a long tongue? That’s what GZ looks like.
Jabba the Hutt
@ic2fools.
Yep. Thank you. That’s the one. GZ could play that role without any costume.
Your welcome Xena. Wish this witness get to the point, this is not class.
I think hes’ full of it. Not one word about difference of adult voice in stress and a childs’/teenagers’ undeveloped vocal cords in stress.
New attorney up asking questions, we may get some where. Who is this attorney?
I couldn’t handle Princess Leia puking on screen…..nooo way !
Witness anonymity is bullshit.
Now Prof, let’s keep an open mind on the issue. Consider, instead of putting the witness behind a screen of sorts, it might be easier to use blindfolds for the jury, the press, the lucky few members of the public who win lottery tickets for the wrong day, the family members, the defendant and of course, his lawyers. (they claim to work blindfolded (and hamstrung) anyway).
Alll members of the viewing television audience, as well as Ms. Fugate, would agree also.
This way, the witness would not be kept secret or in hiding, the viewers would voluntarily not look with the anti-peek eye wear.
Much like this:
He looks like Edward Norton…
I’ve just finished speaking with Omar who is preparing a motion for a novel new method for the trial. In his view, no one at all should be allowed in the courtroom, no judge, no jury, no court reporter, no prosecutors, no defense, no defendant, no witnesses etc., and the court should then be sealed and remain empty until a verdict is reached. Here, I’ll let Omar say it himself:
O: “Only by this method can we ensure that a fair trial is had by all parties. Humans, as we well know, are prone to error. So, this method ensures that no human error can occur. Should the Judge grant this motion, the defense, of course, may never be able to win, however we will also be unable to lose. This way everyone wins! Respectfully submitted M O’Mara”
————————
Well, not quite everyone wins, but then, we know how much Omar’s promises are worth eh?
I just love when lawyers start with “…comes now the defendant…” I’ll leave it at that since FogenPhoole weighs well over 3 bills now. If he did, he’d die….hey, just sayin’……..
This weight gain is going to look very bad to the jurors, when they see the trim muscular foggen of Feb. 2012 in the pictures, they’re going to gasp and believe that he is trying to change his appearance, and we all know what that means without even having to say it.
Would this be the reason ??
Well, I lay my head on the railroad track
Waitin’ on the “double e”
But the train don’t run through here no more
Poor, poor pitiful me!
[Chorus]
Poor, poor pitiful me!
Poor, poor pitiful me!
Oh, this Bernie won’t let me be
Lord have mercy on me!
Woe, woe is me!
Well, I killed a kid in Sanford town
And I ain’t namin’ names
I’ll say worked me over good
Just like big Mike Tyson
Yes, he really worked me over good
He was a credit to his gender
He put me through some changes Lord,
sorta like a waring blender
[Repeat Chorus]
Well, I met a man named O’ Mara man
Down in Orlando
He picked me up and he threw me down
Sayin’, “please don’t hurt me, mama”
[Repeat Chorus]
Poor, poor pitiful me!
Poor, poor pitiful me…
Yeppers, that’s Foggenhats song, anything that includes “Poor Me”!
When Bernie gets him on the stand, I hope he works his way around to asking the question: “What made you decide to shoot him?”
racer~ it seems only BenK should sing that last verse about HIS lawyer!
________________________________
I can go with that. Poor, Poor Pitiful me…..
Lonnie~ You mean, you just got off the phone with Omara? YOU are Sundance Cracker?? (just kidding! the line was the same one he uses)
________________________________
Hahaha… I’ve heard that before from Racer.
Tell us how you really feel, sir. 🙂
present and accounted for and not anonymous
livestream at http://www.clickorlando.com/news/hearing-held-in-george-zimmerman-murder-case/-/1637132/20436614/-/72pit2z/-/index.html?showAds=0
O’Mara wants a screen in front of some of the witnesses.
Good morning Crane,
OS attorney fighting Omara annoyminity motion….
oooooooo…….
good link:
http://wildabouttrial.com/george-zimmerman-live-stream.html
O’Mara now arguing confidentiality of certain witnesses sealed motion.
Mr. Ponce?
Mr. Nielson?
Secret new defense witness?
Possbily a neighbor or RTAL resident….
who the heck is this attorney agreeing with omara confidential motion?
now it is more than one confidential witness
3 for sure, maybe 6. motion denied
good!
I’ve got my hoodie on and up!!
Is there any way I can like put the TV in a small window – like picture in a picture – so I can watch it while I work?
I think you can play it in one window, and work in another window. Alt+Tab between for viewing, but you should be able to listen while you work in the other window.
Thanks. I think i’ll have it on my phone at the same time.
Did you click on thesmall box next to the red X, in the upper right corner? It makes the window smaller then you can put your mouse on the eges of the frame and make it whatever size you want.
Meant to say if you do that to both windows, you can splitscreen them. I do that to have this page and the live feed, both up at the same time.
I don’t know how to do that
@ Nef05
Thanks. I’ve always wondered how to do the splitscreen. It works wonderfully well.
Why do audio experts have to turn over what methods they use?
Did the defense get their own audio expert and did he turn in his report?
because the defense wants to attack the experts methods..you know, everything they could try an attack they will.. that’s what I think anyway..
Good morning all. Is anyone finding a link? I’m not seeing any banners for a live feed in the usual places. Hoping I’m just looking in the wrong spots.
Nef I have two:
http://wildabouttrial.com/george-zimmerman-live-stream.html
and
http://www.wftv.com/s/watchlive/
I’m on this tab right now Omzra talking BS as usual
Okay, found one.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/nationworld/oslivevideo-george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-20130528,0,3991774.htmlstory
Good morning, professor, Crane and all …
Alpha!
Sorry ’bout that…
That’s okay mate, I gladly say your Alpha.
READY TO RUMBLE JUSTICE FOR TRAYVON!!!!!
HOODIES UP!!!
Alpha…
Whoo groans, we checked in at sametime, you got me by a hair!
😆
You HAVE to read this> George Zimmerman SEARCHED for & Created Circumstances that Directly Lead to Killing Trayvon Martin
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/06/06/1213359/-George-Zimmerman-SEARCHED-for-Created-Circumstances-that-Directly-Lead-to-His-Killing-Trayvon-Martin
pork que thanks for the link. This article on verifies what I had thought about Fogen all along.
To add last year at another site I commented many times about pedophiles and how our childred/teenagers are taught ‘Stranger Danger’. We don’t know how many of Fogen Killer Trollz are pedophiles wanting him to walk. So they too can do same and also get away with it.
Over time I have realized this case goes deeper than Fogen being jus a pedophile. However, I strongly believe that pedophiles are taking notes while supporting Fogen, as they too may at this very moment be abusing children/teenagers.
@pork que. You might want to look through the blog post titles on this site. The Professor has given us a couple of lectures on the laws that govern these matters of stalking, immunity/SYG, use of force and who has what rights in situations similar to this.
If I read the lessons right, when gz gave Trayvon pause to become concerned for his own safety, gz was breaking the law by not quickly retreating. Once what you are doing is breaking the law, the law withdraws all protection from you. Criminals have little to no right to defend themselves as far as the law is concerned, because to protect a person committing a crime, by allowing them self defense claims, is in some ways giving approval to the criminal.
Thus the law severely limits what kind and how much force a criminal may apply to prevent the loss of their own life. Obviously, if a burglar can prevent you from shooting himself to death, the law does not expect him not to try, but the law will not protect him/her for doing so. Because efforts to self defend while committing a crime are part of committing a crime and attempting to get away with it.
Once gz became a stalker criminal, he lost his right to defend himself from attack. The law withdraws it’s protections, even from people who place themselves in danger first, then claim self defense.
gz was not “overtaken” by dangerous circumstance, he was the creator of them. Thus he had no right to defend himself under the law. Trayvon was the person who was “overtaken” by dangerous circumstances and he tried his level best to withdraw. Had gz not pursued him, he would have been home watching the game and drinking iced tea, that was his intentions that night and his only goal.
gz’s goal that night was to do something heroic to fight neighborhood crime, and it is his pursuit of that “mission” that created the danger, he wishes us to believe, made it necessary for him to kill Trayvon.
But he can’t even get the location of the killing right!
YOWZA! Behind by 600 posts!! 😦
oh gosh me too……
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/hearing-held-in-george-zimmerman-murder-case/-/1637132/20436614/-/72pit2z/-/index.html?showAds=0
Morning, everyone!
Hoodies up!
Late… but better than never.
Read> George Zimmerman SEARCHED for & Created Circumstances that Directly Lead to Killing Trayvon Martin
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/06/06/1213359/-George-Zimmerman-SEARCHED-for-Created-Circumstances-that-Directly-Lead-to-His-Killing-Trayvon-Martin
Good thorough article. Thanks for posting it! I wonder if he reads here? 😉
________________________________
@Cielo –
Wow, Cielo, that “CC” at Daily Kos is writing great stuff. Analytical article after analytical article, he’s getting every detail right.
Must be reading the Leatherman Blog this past year!