HLN reenactment falsely portrays shooting

June 4, 2013

Good afternnoon:

Vinnie Politano and his “expert” death investigator, Joseph Scott Morgan, stumbled badly out of the HLN starting gate with a false reenactment of the shooting that is inexcusable hall-of-shame material. Here’s the video of the reenactment:

Come on, son.

Reenactments are supposed to exactly reproduce the event being reenacted. They are misleading and worthless, if they do not.

This reenactment did not come close to reproducing the defendant’s description of the shooting because he told the police that, after Trayvon sucker-punched him in the nose to prevent him from calling the police and he fell down on his back, Trayvon mounted him in a seated position straddling his body and began raining down blows to his nose and face MMA style before switching to grab the sides of the defendant’s head and repeatedly slam the back of the defendant’s head against the concrete sidewalk. Then, as the defendant began crying out for help, Trayvon attempted to silence and smother the defendant by placing one hand over the defendant’s mouth and the other over the nose. That is when the defendant claims that he felt Trayvon’s hand on his chest sliding toward the gun that the defendant had concealed from view in a holster inside his pants against the back of his right hip. The defendant said he pinned Trayvon’s hand against his chest with the upper part of his right arm and then grabbed the gun with his right hand and fired the fatal shot taking care not to shoot his left hand.

According to the defendant, Trayvon was never standing over him leaning forward in the position taken by Politano. Indeed none of the hitting, slamming and smothering events described by the defendant would have been possible, if Trayvon were in a standing position.

So much for the defendant’s claim that he reasonably believed he was in imminent danger of death or serious injury such that he had to use deadly force to survive the encounter. Call me psychic, but somehow I do not think that is what Politano intended to demonstrate.

According to the defendant, they were in this position with Trayvon on top.

Here’s LLMPapa’s video:

Of course, it would not have been possible for Trayvon to have seen much less reached the gun from this position.

Therefore, we know the defendant was lying.

Since he and his expert ignored the defendant’s statement, what were they attempting to demonstrate?

I believe they were attempting to account for a straight-on shot front to back where the muzzle of the gun was in contact with the hoodie and shirt underneath it, but the fabric was 2 to 12 inches from the entry wound.

May I have a drum roll, please. Time to pull out ye olde trusty sledgehammer and pound a square peg into a round hole.

Yup, Trayvon must have been leaning forward and the fabric was hanging straight down.

Nice try, but no cigar.

The crime lab analyst who examined the sweatshirt and shirt beneath it found that the cloth was stretched at the time the fatal shot was fired and we have independently verified that the holes in the fabric do not align with the entry wound. They are displaced from the vertical in a diagonal direction toward Trayvon’s right hip.

Mere gravity does not account for this displacement.

I will tell you what does, however. The defendant had a grip on the sweatshirt and shirt with his left hand restraining Trayvon from getting away as he took careful aim and fired.

Not coincidentally, this also explains why the defendant said he “aimed” before he squeezed off the fatal shot in order to avoid shooting his left hand.

Politano’s clueless expert reenacted the shooting by holding his fake red gun with both hands, which is contrary to the defendant’s narrative.

Finally, we know the defendant was on top because W18 witnessed the shooting and said he was on top.

Clean heels with wet grass and mud on the toes of the defendant’s boots are not consistent with the defendant’s claim that he shimmied in an atttempt to get out from under Trayvon.

The back of the defendant’s jacket was wet because it was raining, not because he was lying on his back in the grass. A photograph of the back of his jacket taken at the police station did not show any mud or grass present.

Two conclusions can be reached from the evidence. The defendant lied and he was not in imminent danger of death or serious injury when he fired the fatal shot. In fact, he was in control of Trayvon when he killed him.

That is not self-defense.

It is second degree murder.

(H/T to LLMPapa for the video and Ay2Z for the inspiration to write this post)

398 Responses to HLN reenactment falsely portrays shooting

  1. racerrodig says:

    What’s the name of the train Fogen’s on….Oh yeah, the “Expressway to Hell”

  2. TheMindIsATerribleThingToWaste says:

    faux wrote,

    “to mindisterrible

    hln is a division of CNN”

    CNN? Oh really? Figures. They have lost credibility with me too. Thanks Faux

  3. ic2fools says:

    Link, Notice from Seminole County Sherrifs’ Office Dated December 15, 2008 3:39pm

    This reads Fogen application was approved, dates are given for when the classes started. ??

    Includes Fogen written explanation of the arrest.

    Have I missed something here? Where is the rejection letter and when was Fogen rejected.

  4. ay2z says:

    By the way, Professor, looking at the still photo of HLN’s video as reenacted by the expert aiming at some intermediate distance at Politan, does that appear to the eye, as a perfect lateral shot into the chest area back to front?

    Seems under this expert’s theory, there was still a lot of play in that intermediate range near 12″, to have a tad bit of an angle from bullet leaving the barrel to entry.

    But at a closer distance for intermediate range, the degree of angle error would be much less and closer to a straight shot, wouldn’t ya say? Say…. as in someone gripping the fabric and holding a victim closer than farther?

    Say, as in what Sgt Irwin might have corrected himself from asking…. did you try to pp… (as in ‘pull’) before correction to ‘push’?

    The investigators may already have known Trayvon had no way out and was held for the kill.

  5. ay2z says:

    Past My Other Hand

    Expert Morgan used two hands on his schoolboy gun, no need to push the red gun past your other hand when it’s gripping your gun, eh Mr. Morgan?

  6. Animaljunkie says:

    Yes, when I saw it, I tweeted that I was interested in what evidence BdlR was going to submit i.e. I too was not impressed by the ‘re-enactment’, but I suppose we must expect such from HLN! :o/

    In my opinion, loyal Trayvon Warriors know more about this case than HLN!

  7. annahkonda says:

    You guys and gals are so funny. This blog makes my day, startimg with my morning coffee.

  8. ay2z says:

    Just made this, only one example to show how wrong Expert Morgan on HLN is about Trayvon standing over fogen the way he illustrages.

    Hardly Any Play

    • ic2fools says:

      Vinne left that out his skit.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      The defenses worst fear is that they give gz a holster and unloaded gun, have him lay on the floor with someone straddling him, and ask him to demonstrate how he managed to draw the weapon. With his jacket pinned under the legs of the straddler he won’t even be able to reach it. As he struggles the minutes will pass and the jury will be finished with him.

  9. YQ says:

    “Mounted” is the best one yet-says everything in minute detail the way I could not express. As for HLN, or course they would try to spin this some other way. They probably tried it GZs way and figured that the truthful reveal could hurt the ratings. Who’s gonna watch the show if they can’t believe the defense? Where would the suspense come from?

    As for the gun, IMO none of what GZ said was true. It’s just not possible to get to the gun in that way especially if it’s behind him.

    • racerrodig says:

      If he was on his back and the gun was where he said it was, how does he pull it period and if he can, there’s no grass or dirt on it ?

      Note to Fogen : You’re an idiot.

      • ic2fools says:

        Good point racer. Fogen gun shown in SPD pics does not have any dirt or debris on it nor the holster

        link to evidence;pic of fogen gun

        look at the holster, I don’t see any Shimmy debris, do you?

  10. ic2fools says:

    Okay ya’ll just had to share this, hope you like it as much as I do, enjoy:

    • parrot says:


    • Nef05 says:

      That’s great. How did they do that? LOL! I do remember some great times at the roller rink skating to this one though. Naturally, it was in heavy rotation. They must have played it 3 or 4 times a night.

      • ic2fools says:

        Lol Nef I wish I knew how they made the vid. Amazing.

        Yeah, we showed out in the rink to that jam. Lol few years back I went to a kidz skating party put on my skates for the last time, my bum still hurts lol lol lol.,

  11. ay2z says:

    REmember this video? New script writer needed before June 10, 2013?

    You got that script writer on flex hours and triple pay, O’Mara?

    No more wonder where all those Feb 26th lies came from, it was in the original script of a previous NEN call about another suspicious black guy from the location of Taffee’s pad.

    • Rachael says:

      Seriously – have you ever looked at his phone calls in evidence? It is so eery.

    • BillT says:

      this case may have been UNDERcharged…..this comparison shows there was premeditation, his story was scripted, the problem is he varied from the script some on his nen call and they didnt do their part the same for him(didnt ask for address or to move to where he could see Martin).

    • YQ says:


      • BillT says:

        yes, because fogens words are almost 100% identical to his previous call made on 2/2/2012…this means his calls and story was REHEARSED, that he had prethought what to say and how to describe his “perps” and what he needed to claim IF it ever came to a shooting…….there is no way it could be mere coincidence.

        he clearly knew in advance he needed to claim a life threatening situation as the words he puts in Martin’s mouth shows…..making it clear to police that the “perp” told him a few times you are gonna DIE!

    • bettykath says:

      omg. I’m beginning to think that when Shellie said “he killed someone else” she may have meant that he went out hunting for someone specific but shot “someone else”, Trayvon, who wasn’t the original target.

      • Ah, yes, Grasshopper.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I am shuttering….this is scary.

        • Ya know what’s scary?…….If fogen had had the sense to carry a plant with him………Trayvon would then have been armed……

          And we’d be looking at an entirely different script….

          The bottom line tho….it still would have been cold blooded murder ….yet it would have given fogen better chances at getting away with it…..

          THERE we need to be thankful for fogens stupidity.

    • ic2fools says:

      Same shyte Fogen different night. Excuse me ya’ll but I jus wanna slap that shyte eating smirk off his face!!!!

      Please Bernie please I hope you see this and use it in Court!

      And Taaffe is a drunken alcoholic noid trippin lying self serving pompus azz….

      I got a few more choice names, dammit this got my pressure up…

      lying bastards gonna choke on those lies in court and in jail.

      Taaffe you should be charged with lying to obstruct of justice, lying to file false police reports, dam ain’t no charges for just being a liar!!!!!

      screaming now………………….

      • parrot says:

        May ‘…the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, guard your heart and your mind…’, ic2.
        (Philippians 4:7)

        • ic2fools says:

          Thank you Parrot I truly needed this. Tear in my eyes right now.

          What I said is harsh yes, I do realize this is not the time to fight fire with fire.

          That comparision got the best of me. Thank you for your prayers my friend.

      • ic2fools says:

        parrot the full verse….

        Philippians 4:7
        New International Version (NIV)
        7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus

        I feel better now, tucking it in soon. Will be logging in to wach the hearing well rested.

  12. ladystclaire says:

    When I saw them doing that so called reenactment, I couldn’t believe my eyes and, I just turned away from HLN. I’m kind of surprised at Vinnie doing something like that. I thought he stood for the truth, in situations like this but, I guess I was wrong about him.

    • BillT says:

      they stumbled onto the reality in that recreation…indeed the shooter would need to have his weapon in his hand BEFORE being sat upon, and indeed the only way for the person on the ground to get the direct on shot is IF the other person is standing!

      in trying to show zmans story was plausible they actually showed it COULDNT be done the way zman claims.

    • TheMindIsATerribleThingToWaste says:

      Agreed. I mentioned that Vinnie was cool based off of previous times. That’s the foolery of HLN.

    • racerrodig says:

      I believe that the Afro – Peruvian here is Fogen. Looks just like him…………….

      Note to FogenPhoole : Take more lessons……my bad, they have gyms in prisons…….

      Note to Fogen : Learn “Self Defense” in prison.

      • No need for fogen to learn self defense in prison…….

        He’ll have Ramrod Johnson to protect him…..

      • BillT says:

        excellent work as always but allow me to add LISTEN to that tape, the head hitting or being hit by a HARD surface makes a very LOUD noise……..listen to the 911 call of the final 45 seconds and NO such sounds are heard……..even a fist to the head bare knuckled makes a loud cracking sound

      • I got a real kick out of that.

        • racerrodig says:

          I can’t believe Papa got that one up that fast…

          You guys and gals are “The Man” !!!!

      • Thanks for this, racerrodig!

        • racerrodig says:

          I can just hear Howard Cossel now……….

          “……..and he’s down !! Fogen is down ladies and gentlemen…….he’s down…….and the referee stops the fight !!”

          “We all knew he was overmatched Howard but a 3 second knockout is just such a statement”

          “He had no chance at all and Bernied needed just one blow….and it’s over…..as my good frien from Monday Night Football used to sing “….turn out the lights…..the partys over”

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:


    • LLMPapa, I have your video up at 3Chics. I’m so happy to be subscribed to your channel.

    • ay2z says:

      Knew you’d be on the gym topic, just so fast and so damned on the mark!! Didn’t have to grapple with it at all…


      Kicked it!!!

      AS for ‘boxing’, we should leave that one to fogen, as in ‘Get in the Box, George!’

    • Rachael says:

      Damn that was GOOD!!!! Thank you.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Well, the evidence is filling up BDLR’s sails.

        ….and is he ever gonna clean up against gz’s river of lies!!

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Here is what I meant to post:

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Well, the evidence is filling up BDLR’s sails.

        ….and is he ever gonna clean up against gz’s river of lies!!

      • bettykath says:

        You all, thanks for that great sailin’ video!! got my bfa off the chair and shakin’ all over 😀

    • Girlp says:


    • Two sides to a story says:

      I bet the Hopi tribe will now wail on Kokopelli’s gym and make them change the name and logo (unless it’s a Hopi who runs it.)

      • bettykath says:

        yes, but can you imagine a fight school using a humped back flute playing fertility symbol as a logo? that just doesn’t connect for me.

        again, thanks for the Sailin’ video

    • TheMindIsATerribleThingToWaste says:

      Ha, ha awesome Papa.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Added, thanks LLMPapa, great work.

  13. crazy1946 says:

    Can anyone remember one time in the record of Fogen that he has gone up physically against a man? Every thing that I have read has mentioned either women or children?

  14. fauxmccoy says:

    follow … box checked! no ticks!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Hmm. she’s referring to a court opinion as a fact – not. An opinion is an opinion, no matter who makes it. And that’s my two cents.

  15. On a dark rainy night in Feb, Zimmerman thought no one saw what he did to Trayvon Martin. What’s done in the dark will come to the light!

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Yes, it will, SG.

    • racerrodig says:

      Yes it will. I’d love to know more about the security cameras being down, and Fogen knew about it. Nobody else there did, but that Watch Captain, hey he was out protecting the hood when the cameras were down…..what a guy.

  16. Ty Flair says:

    I’m so glad they invented the internet,the media is full of SH@T all for rating.

  17. Nef05 says:

    I’m disgusted by HLN and other networks attempt to cash in on this trial, without doing a minimum amount of background work. HLN is advertising and ramping up their coverage, bigtime – but they don’t seem to have assigned so much as a summer intern to research the released evidence on this case. As for the on air talent, I’d be embarrassed to run my mouth about a subject my job was primarily geared toward, yet be SO uninformed on the subject matter. Pfffftt!

    • BillT says:

      it is stunning how everyday people that post here can see the OBVIOUS facts of this case and the “experts” appear to be blind.

      NOT one shred of the physical evidence supports fogens ridiculous claims…..his own various tellings of his story are so contradictory to his own words they show he is LYING and in court in the past he LIED.

      seriously some “experts” should have their license to practice law revoked.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Sequester reporting?

    • texad says:

      @ Nef05

      My disgust with HLN tops yours x3. i really haven’t watched it in 2 or 3 days. I just read comments on this site and sometimes go to their website to see the actual drivel they put out there.

      Kyra Phillips on HLN has an Atlanta FM radio DJ as an occasional co-host and he really shocked me. He is SOOOO outspoken about everything on his radio show, but on Kyra’s show he was obviously trying to stay close to the HLN party line. When I tweeted him and suggested that he might want to do some research before he took a position, he tweeted me back and said he does research, but the show is all about soundbites. I tweeted that it was about the death of a teenager. Then he tried to prove his concern / solidarity by saying he understood that point because he was in Atlanta during the missing and murdered children cases. Not a good example, as far as I’m concerned, because THOSE cases and THAT trial was not reported fair and balanced either. Moving on. . . . .

      I don’t think my blood pressure will allow me to watch this trial. I’ll probably just stop by here to see what The Professor and the other decent Americans here report. TV is in fact officially a vast wasteland. Where is the 21st century Walter Cronkite? Edward R. Morrow? Dan Rather? (before he had that strange episode). Carol Simpson? Max Robinson?

      • texad says:

        Should have said “decent people all over the world”, because I know many on this site are from other places. My bad..

      • fauxmccoy says:

        peter jennings, hell, i’d even take sam donaldson at this point. all respected journalists, unlike this current crop of ‘news’ readers.

        • They aren’t even “news readers”…..nothing more than talking heads reading scripts that will hook the biggest audience…..boost ratings and income ….screw the truth or the facts……..how long can we milk this….

          Too bad….”And that’s the way it was”….Is actually a “was” now..

          Rachael questioned earlier “what if he gets off?”…….I don’t think it possible…..then again?…..I still hold that if he believes he’s losing…as when the jury goes to deliberate that he’ll rabbit…

          No matter what the outcome….his life is ruined forever……..He was a deadbeat loser failure before the murder…….really think his life will get better if he does get off?

  18. ic2fools says:

    State filed more evidence against Fogen, now we know who was interested and trained in fighting:

    The new evidence list includes information that Zimmerman trained at a Longwood gym that specializes in boxing and kickboxing.

    A webpage for the business, Kokopelli’s Gym, describes it as “the most complete fight gym in the world.”

    surprising Rene Stuzman wrote the article:


    • Rachael says:

      I hope this flushes some of the refuse from the outhouse. They always whine about how poor little out of shape Georgie couldn’t defend himself against the big bad black kid. It is disgusting how they make him out to be such a pathetic wimp.

      Anyway, UP YOUR O’MARA!!!

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Here is the logo for Kopopelli’s gym in Orlando:

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        In the logo, are listed Muay Thai, boxing, and GRAPPLING.

        I Google searched for “GRAPPLING wrist lock” and here is the video:

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        MMP–They are over at NBC article “Judge denies delay”. I closed my account about 3+ weeks ago writing the following:


      • You all have thoughtful comments says:


        Guess you can see here that I do need to occasionally post.

      • racerrodig says:

        Yep, The Moron Man……the bags under his eyes are getting mighty big now.

        Just think about this, the state has dumped a ton of evidence and Moron & Fogen have to know they save the best for last right ?

        I mean…..Fogen must have told his lawyer everything…..right ??


      • ic2fools says:

        Oh they’ll start posting Fogen was a member who didn’t use his membership. They always find a way to deny damaging evidence.

        If the evidence reforms 1 zidiot at a time that’s progress.

        Let us see how the last minute experts work for the defense. As if an expert is willing to sacrifice their reputation to work with O’Mara.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Fogen was definitly a little clumsy, but back when he was 120 pounds lighter, I’m sure he could hold his own with a teenager in that brief encounter. Don’t forget that teens have speed and flexibility but they don’t have as much stamina and mind control as someone a little older.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Some of you here might want to read my post at


        and also a few under it.

        It pertains to the police academy rejecting him and some of his attitudes.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Good point, Two Sides.

        I hope the prosecution shows plenty of pictures of gz from the week of February 26, 2012 to counter the look that gz has now.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Does anyone have a link to the evidence just released other than from a news media source?

      • Trained Observer says:

        Kokopelli’s Gym must be cringing at the association with Fogen.

        Either that or they are developing a new ad campaign:

        Train With Us … and We’ll Turn You into a Murderous Blubbering Butterball

        🙂 🙂 🙂

        • racerrodig says:

          “Train With Us … and We’ll Turn You into a Murderous Blubbering Butterball”

          You guys and gals are in rare form again…..gotta love it !!

      • type1juve says:

        This asshole was a bouncer. Are we really to believe that he didn’t know how to defend himself? The defense needs to GTFOH with that bullshit! Poor Trayvon didn’t stand a chance against this monster.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        So the angry ex barroom bouncer had combat training too boot! Ha!
        Now it comes out. Mr. “Poor little ol’ Helpless Me”, with his tear filled eyes pleading for sympathy, is a Rambo wannabe rogue cop as well.

        How does that stack up against a kid watching a fight? If it was him at all.

        • I think MOM’s next motion will be the

          “You can’t say anything bad about my client” motion

          It may be a stretch…..yet the way things have gone thus far?

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Sounds about right, his next list of word and phrases to have the judge ban from the trial are:

            Dee Dee
            Mail shed/ kiosk
            any hours minutes or seconds
            jackets especially red
            hoodie especially dark
            dog walk
            Retreat View Circle
            Twin Trees Lane
            and More to be added later. 😆

    • racerrodig says:

      Where’s the part where he flunked the psych part of his police application in Fl….oh yeah, that’s prejudicial…..but we all knew that already.

      • ic2fools says:

        Wow, he’ll have another one before trial is over. OM will try anything and don’t care if it works or not.

        • racerrodig says:

          Wait until the phone records come out……I’m told by my guys, well, lets just say “He who laughs last….are all members of Team Trayvon”

          • ic2fools says:

            I’ve been wondering, maybe you can help. Will Trayvon and Fogen GPS data be able to prove they were never at the T at the same time?

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Oh, racer, I hope so . . .

      • tonydphotog says:

        I think it was his police application where he wrote his story about attacking the undercover cop. He wrote that he had no idea that it was an undercover cop, which is a lie. Yes, he’s really that stupid to think no one would catch that lie.

        IIRC, the cop identified him/herself, and fogen said “I don’t care who the f–k you are!” then attacked.

        • racerrodig says:

          The officer did identify himself. Fogen took a minor friend of his to a bar that just happened to be under investigation for that very thing. Fogen went to the bathroom and when he came out all the suspected minors were outside, cuffed, sitting on the curb and out pops Fogen. Fogen starts talking to his friend ans the cop told hip stop at which point he assaulted the officer.

          Funny….I sense a pattern here. Cops bays back off and Fogen not only ignores….but attacks. Help me out here….sound familiar ??

      • ic2fools says:

        lets just say “He who laughs last….are all members of Team Trayvon”

        Racer I’m on pins n needles waiting for Bernie to get them in court. Fogen phone records oooweee, will break this wide open.

        What the heck, Reich said yesterday his analysis revealed Fogen saying “Jeremy” I don’t recall Jeremy help refresh my Skeletor lapse….

    • Malamiyya says:

      I’m sure Rene Stuzman will surprise you again. She’s an equal opportunity exploiter who goes where the “story” is. O’Mara has been feeding her raw meat and the State hasn’t, so she has appeared in the bag for Z. But the instant she can get her raw meat elsewhere — as in this story — I think you’ll see her turn on fogen and savage him and never look back.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Fogen supporters don’t like her even though we think she serves them.

        • racerrodig says:

          Here’s some real shit

          “In a separate pleading, defense attorney Mark O’Mara has asked the judge to ban prosecutors from using several specific terms, ones he describes as “inflammatory”.

          “They include “profiled”, “vigilante”, “self-appointed Neighborhood Watch captain”, “wannabe cop” and the phrases “He got out of the car after the police told him not to”, and “He confronted Trayvon Martin”.

          Everyone say it…..”DE – NIED”

          In one of Fogens statements he says he approached Trayvon…..

          How soon they forget…..and conveniently I might add.

          Moron O’ Mara “….um, lets leave it at my client and Trayvon Martin were both in the same state that night…..anything more specific is inflammatory and prejudicial”

      • ic2fools says:

        Interesting point, I don’t agree. Rene has more than one opportunity since the beginning of this tragedy to write articles without twisting the truth in favor of either side.

        Evidence and forensics have been available for months disproving much of what she has written previously. Much like OM her reputation is on that sinking ship. Two articles with a few more can not and will not save her from disgusted readers.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:


        Thanks for that info on O’Mara’s motion.

        OM should have just written, “Please don’t let BDLR prosecute my client.”

        • racerrodig says:

          “Please don’t let BDLR prosecute my client.”

          That was the “Lets not hold a trial” defense….how novel !! Yep, that O’ Mara is a real hoot.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        God’s plan, Big Willie, God’s plan.

      • tonydphotog says:

        “In a separate pleading, defense attorney Mark O’Mara has asked the judge to ban prosecutors from using several specific terms, ones he describes as “inflammatory”.

        “They include “profiled”, “vigilante”, “self-appointed Neighborhood Watch captain”, “wannabe cop” and the phrases “He got out of the car after the police told him not to”, and “He confronted Trayvon Martin”.

        Wow! These are from the list that Nettles18 sent to O’Mara. 100% proof that the racist blog sites are calling the shots!

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          This motion is a non-starter. The court will not ban the use of terms until the context is heard. Obviously if the terms are appropriately descriptive and have foundation then they can be used. Until the context is heard, there’s nothing that can be done to bar their use.
          Bad Lawyer, Bad Lawyer, Down Bad Lawyer Down!

          • Judges routinely instruct the jury that an opening statement is not evidence.

            Evidence will consist of the testimony of the witnesses and the exhibits admitted during the trial.

            An opening statement is an opportunity for a lawyer to tell the jury what he or she thinks the evidence will show about the case. It’s a preview of what to expect and nothing more.

            Judges will occasionally grant motions in limine prohibiting one side or the other from saying something during opening statement. For example, Judge Nelson ordered the defense not to mention certain irrelevant and inadmissible information about Trayvon.

            However, the State will be able to prove some of the things the defense is asking Judge Nelson to prohibit the State from mentioning.

            That is not going to fly and will be the subject of a new post in the next several days, possibly this weekend.

            Basically, the defense is trying to prevent the State from making an opening statement and Judge Nelson will never do that.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Thank you for the clarifications. Yes, Omar is trying to see to it that the opening statements are crippled and without dramatic force. He was a NW’er and as the NSA says, anyone who departs from the given rules is on their own as a vigilante. So the state will be able to prove that gz was a vigilante, since he claimed to be on patrol and the evidence shows he was way beyond his portfolio in doing so.

          • racerrodig says:

            Hey O’ Mara, can we agree they were both in FL that night?? Tomorrow we’ll try to narrow it down to a specific county, then a town and hopefully a street.

      • bettykath says:

        Agreeing to “he got out of the car after the dispatcher told him not to” is not a problem. first of all, that’s not true. it was only after the it was clear that fogen was out of his car and running that dispatcher said anything. just play the nen tape.

    • Nef05 says:

      So now we know why O’Mara was so desperate to “show” Trayvon was involved in fighting. Hard enough to believe a 28 yr. old grown man couldn’t handle a 158 lb skinny teenager in a regular fistfight (setting aside we know Trayvon never hit him), they certainly could not expect anyone to believe a 28 yr old adult male, trained in fighting (we knew all along), couldn’t handle a skinny 158 lb kid without shooting him. Preemptively make Trayvon out to be a fighter.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I agree with you Nef05.

      • ic2fools says:

        x3 Nef

      • abbyjj says:

        Nef, How are you? From the get-go, O’Mara has done everything under the sun to distort Trayvon into a black, drugged-out, fighter. It’s never stuck to the wall, any of it, no matter how desperately MOM has tried. It will fail miserably in court, as well. RIP Trayvon.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Looks like old Pops Z failed to have enough pull to get sonny boy Fogen onto the force back home in Virginia.

      BTW, I take exception to Stutzman’s phrase that Fogen was “about to complete a two-year degree” at Seminole State College.

      The most that can be said is that this dunce was enrolled and in the process of flunking out … before he got kicked out after he shooting Trayvon.

    • A trained kickboxer! A kickboxer! A 28 year old trained kickboxer up against a 17 year old kid carrying candy. To the jail you go, George Zimmerman!

      • ic2fools says:

        Breath SG2, breathe girlfriend!

        That’s were and how Witness John fabricated it was Trayvon MMA style fightining, when the truth is it was Fogen using those MMA moves to restrain and taunt Trayvon.

        • ***stifling screams***

        • There was MMA style fighting but it wasn’t Trayvon Martin. It was Zimmerman being a trained kickboxer. God has shown the light on Zimmerman!

          A trained kickboxer! OMG!

          • racerrodig says:

            So that statement “…I was on him…” takes on new meaning.

            Oh yeah, we’re on this Fogen.

          • ic2fools says:

            Amen to that Sista!

            Mama always told me:

            “Evil done in darkness will be brought in by the light bearing the truth ”
            -Lillian Marie, my mama-

          • AMEN! So did my mother. Mamas know!

          • ic2fools says:

            From The Desk of BDLR FAN CLUB

            Mom sure do know.

            IC the truth shining off Bernies’ Head! Bald is the new sexy in my book.


          • You’re not kidding. Bald guys are sexy. Bernie has me hooked. lol

          • ic2fools says:

            Truly sexy. Bernie got me hooked too. I wanna massage his brain.


          • Lonnie Starr says:

            It would be very interesting to see gz demonstrate how he drew his weapon, under those conditions, in under 45 seconds, which is the maximum time he had available, from the time they supposedly fell to the ground.

          • ic2fools says:

            Ain’t that the truth! Then explain why there is not any dirt or debris on the gun or holster.

            Saying that gun had been pulled from the position described, he can’t tell us that gun did not touch that wet muddy grass.

            pic of gun n holster taken as from fogen as evidence:

            Mighty clean ay? The holster should have dirt, debris and grass on it too. Unless Barney Fife wiped it clean (NOT)

          • fauxmccoy says:

            SG2 says

            You’re not kidding. Bald guys are sexy. Bernie has me hooked. lol

            as my bro says in honor of our father and all those who went before with male pattern baldness

            ‘ god only made a few perfect heads, the rest he had to put hair on’ 🙂 we’ll let bernie into the club. (i used the line a lot while on chemo and walking this earth as a bald woman, it ain’t easy)

          • Yeah baby! 😉

          • ic2fools says:

            Thanks Lonnie.

            You made a good point too about Omar double edge sword. What he’s done to predjudice the potential jurors. Yes, when he can’t deliver in court as they expect him too and disproved at that, he will sink further.

            Yet there’ll be killer trollz who won’t give up.

            Lol what is a zidiots shelf life? spoils on contact.

          • ic2fools says:

            Lonnie a great article, way too much hate there, too much.

            Goodness my head is throbbing after reading some of thos comments. oooouuuuccchhh!!!!

            One thing it is not the States’ job to give Omar interpreted evidence from their work product.

            Fogen supporters, em killer trollz are completely nutz.

            If Fogen mma gym membership was not recent then I believe Mr. De La Rionda would not have entered it as evidence.

      • Rachael says:

        Yep. Once again, GZ turned around EVERYTHING that HE did and put it on Travon –

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        You are right about that, Rachael!

      • Nef05 says:

        @SG2 – Yep, Exactly! (singing because I don’t want to give myself a stroke) Hi Ho, Hi ho – it’s off to jail you go! With a heave and a ho, self defense is no go – Hi ho, Hi ho”
        (Okay, I’m not racer, but you get the idea 🙂 )

        @ic2 – I thought the same thing when I heard that. Either that or he was aware of fogen’s training. I wouldn’t put it past fogen to have told everyone in the neighborhood about his “training” making himself out to be a mini-Steven Segall who would handle anything in his NW “captain” position.

        In fact, I can’t believe he DIDN’T brag about this training to the neighborhood, which begs the question as to why none of the “non suspects” on the HOA board has ever mentioned it.

        • racerrodig says:

          Pretty freaking funny how this ass kicker claims to have been getting his whooped. And to think, O’ Mara’s known this for how long, being as we know Fogen is such a decent American and forthright with his lawyer and all……no surprise here.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        That certainly is some food for thought, Nef.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Also, why did Osterman never mention it?

        • racerrodig says:

          I’ll equate it to this. Remember when someone was hassling you in the past and the comeback was….

          “What, are you writing a book?” and the dork said “Yeah”

          Of course the next remark was “Then leave that chapter out”

          …and that’s just what Osteridiot did. Yep, poor Fogen….all that ass kicking…A hahahahahahahahahaha !!!!

      • racerrodig says:

        And he said he was getting his ass kicked….Hey Robbie, what’s your take on this one ya racist crud.

      • @Nef05

        Ok! Ok! Let me calm myself down. Please tell me why o why did witness John tell us it was Trayvon fighting MMA style? But wait wait…wasn’t he the one who said Zimmerman looked as if he got his butt kicked? And was it him that Zimmerman asked if he was bleeding? Something smells and it stinks to high heaven.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Can you imagine Fogen’s daydreams about himself – high-flying ninja cop wannabe lone ranger . . . oh dear. :}~~

      • Big Willie says:

        Message to Fogen.

        George Zimmerman your soul is required in Hell!

        • racerrodig says:

          He does have one foot on the threshold of Hell and one on a banana peel…..that’s for sure…..one more step Fogen…one more.

    • Girlp says:

      So is she being forced to report both side now after her buddy was caught in a lie.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Interesting thought, Girlp.

      • ic2fools says:

        One way to view it. Someone posted that it goes further up the ladder what is chosen to be printed.

        Either way Renes’ may as well say buh-bye to her career and OS has lost respect as a reputable source of information.

        Don’t liked her reporting never have and never will, as many others also believe. Shes’ as dirty as OM and will sink with that cursed ship.

      • ic2fools says:

        Hello Girlp, good seeing you here.

        Sounds as if that is what has happened. Rene has plenty of opportunity to print truth of evidence. The smug smirk on her face of the photo she uses says to me she is a shyte starter using lies to sell her articles.

    • bettykath says:

      LOL. Really strange that a fighting gym would use a Hopi fertility symbol for its logo. This is the ugliest Kokopelli I’ve seen though. 😀

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Hahaha… I see it as payback for him blindsiding her on the bicycle fight story. Omar thinks he can just throw people under the bus without consequences.

      • ic2fools says:

        fury of a scorned news reporter. lol let’s see how long that last.

        I could see Omar crawlin n begging for her to print his lies, if the price is right she’ll write for him then print it.

        skanky as rene is she’ll want Omar to give her an interview when he
        is disbarred.

    • LeaNder says:

      that’s exactly the type of excuse I expected. The Kindergarten variety. At least I immediately excused, what about the other side? That’s how the brilliant manipulator works, he can use something like that as example of what an ethical person he is. He did excuse, didn’t he? Sickening.

      That’s the type of argument we will see at trail.

  19. ay2z says:

    “He sat up and he said “ohp” as he was about to die.

    Clearly the killer shows more than once in the truthies test, how he had not had his dominant right hand holding his gun.

    The Vinnie Politan expert must have seen the photo at the gun range and considered it proof that the gun was gripped with both hands.

    Watch those assumptions, Mr. Expert2, the defendant will show and tell you otherwise, in great detail.

    • Rachael says:

      It sounds more like “stop” (FOLLOWED by the gunshot) but I’m really intrigued buy the “I was on him.” **I** was on **him.** Wow.

      Please, please, please don’t let him walk.

      • ay2z says:

        Rachel, notice in the demo fogen gives, nearer the end of the clip, he uses his right gun hand, to point like a gun, and he illustrates ‘on’ him as he touches and pushes the barrel (finger) into his left hand palm.

        I read that section as pushing the barrel into Trayvon’s chest to ensure he was ‘On’ as in on target, knowing exactly where Travyon’s body was by pushing the gun forward, and it may have stayed ‘on’ him for both entry points as the fabric was gripped and pulled to hold the victim in place, but for Trayvon pulling back as a reaction to feeling the gun barrel on him.

        BTW, to Mr. new expert2, watch the reenactment portion above, and listen to the defendant say ‘he sat back’, well how do you ‘sit’ back if you are not already sitting to begin with? As the defendant wants us to believe via Osterman’s ‘butt on his stomach’ and legs, knees at his side.

        (no crouching tiger, Mr. Expert2, no circling either)

      • Rachael says:

        Yes, that was what I thought at first too, like he was “on his target,” but there was something about the reenactment where he is showing what he said Trayvon did, I can’t remember now, but the way he did it, it looked more like him being on Trayvon with a gun and then actually saying he was on him.

        Like I said, I too though on him like a target – aiming, but now I’m kind of wondering if it was another one of his slip-ups.

    • Girlp says:

      Oh my! I really hate this he terrorized that kid. So he was on him, and admits to following him and did not stop following him when he was told not to (GZ says in his own words that he was told not to follow). What does he mean he was on him? Interesting statement

  20. Shari says:

    Who has seen the new evidence? GZ was turned down for the police academy and has trained as a fighter.

    • Rachael says:

      I knew he was turned down for the police academy but didn’t know about the fighter. Where is this evidence?

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Ooo. Turned down twice – once near DC and also in FL.

      • lurker says:

        From the article:

        “The new evidence list includes information that Zimmerman trained at a Longwood gym that specializes in boxing and kickboxing.

        “A webpage for the business, Kokopelli’s Gym, describes it as “the most complete fight gym in the world.””

        Teehee. Sounds prophyactic to me. Just let O’Mara try to portray Trayvon as a fighter!

        • ic2fools says:

          lurker doncha kno, Omara will ask a dumb azz question to Trayvons’ parents:

          Do you know or have any knowledge of your sons’ interest in fighting, training for Martial Arts and/or membership to any gyms’

          of course BDLR will Object and JN will sustain…..

          jus sayin’

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Please don’t forget “painful grappling wrist locks”, because that’s most likely the cause of Trayvon’s screaming! They’re simple and easy for a 207lbs bouncer to do on an underweight, untrained and non-combative teen.

          “I’m beggging you!”

      • ay2z says:

        Nice work, Rachel.

        Here’s a quote of things MOM wants out of suggestion, certain terms –>

        In a separate pleading, defense attorney Mark O’Mara has asked the judge to ban prosecutors from using several specific terms, ones he describes as “inflammatory”.

        They include “profiled”, “vigilante”, “self-appointed Neighborhood Watch captain”, “wannabe cop” and the phrases “He got out of the car after the police told him not to”, and “He confronted Trayvon Martin”.

        I have a theory, well more like direct evidence if the word on one of fogen’s NEN calls from an earlier date is correct, that he carried his interest in police K9’s (remember he talked to a young K9 officer who had shot and killed someone, and was said to be curious about how it felt etc?)

        There’s another k9 connection to the police use of protection dogs on one of those phone calls, and research into what resources fogen used to help him train and handle his own powerful, but probably nice, Rottweiler. One thing is for sure, you can not dominate your Rottweiler if it’s got the heritage to be a good working dog, with a wimpy nano-hertz wisper voice like fogen’s exemplar of calling out for someone to ‘help me’ hold the guy (from getting away).

        Anyone curious about fogen’s exclamations of “Ow!…Ow!” while waiting for NEN to pick up? If he was talking to a Rottweiler that was protection trained or sport breed testing trained, fogen would likely have been using the German, ‘Aus’ if his dog was trying to get him to play with a toy, fogen would have asked him to release a toy, for example.

        What did fogen do with K9 training in any form? That’s what I’d like to know, he had a powerful dog that on walks, could have decided he needed to protect in a situation and fogen needed to have his dog pay attention to him through simple respect, and fogen’s presence and voice isn’t much to respect, he admitted to Singleton.

        One reason not to take a dog on a walk when you see a suspicious person, or not to take the dog up to that person, is that if the dog needs to step in for a weak owner, the dog will be to blame and worse comes to worse, the dog removed from the owner.

        Gun is better, bet he decided. Gun with hollow points, even better. Gun that belongs to your wife with hollow points, best yet.

  21. Good heavens, this is for the troll in the spam filter who made an oddly Freudian comment about an activity in an alleyway, that, even if true doesn’t give one license to execute people in the street, here is some music for you:

  22. Jun says:

    The “expert” sucks on Vinnie’s show but at the same time, Vinnie had similar idiots for the Jodi Arias trial and he still convinced the TV jury that Jodi was guilty, even though these “experts” claimed Jodi’s story on his show

    I think the main part is even this “expert”, although incorrect in a lot of aspects, shows that the defendant’s story is a lie

    The misalignment could have only happened if Fogen pulled down and to the left, Trayvon’s hoodie and undershirt, when he fired the gun, so even if they want to claim Fogen was on his back, the evidence shows the defendant pulled the victim toward him, to shoot and murder the kid, hence the kid screaming “get off”

  23. ay2z says:

    They believe every word of the killer, every self-serving TV authenticated word.

  24. racerrodig says:

    Maybe he’s Knox’s friend ???……but he’s not exactly an expert.
    Why is it that every “expert” that chimes in on a TV channel or seemingly for the defense proves the states case ??

    Is it me, or what?? On HLN last night juror # 7, that “fine southern lady” actually quoted the defense and the OS a few times verbatim about head bashing, pummeling, self defense, thugs and such. It’s real predictable however one of the clowns like that, Taaffe last week, spouts something, they cut to commercial instantly.

  25. Tzar says:

    all they had to do was ignore the available evidence and cherry pick the killer’s account of the event and they could put on a reenactment as accurate as the killer’s.
    great job fellas

  26. bettykath says:

    The lack of precision in his language makes him his own “expert”, so I didn’t pay much attention to all the points the professor pointed out. Who vets these “experts”?

    • ay2z says:

      The left hand on red plastic gun is a major failure of this expert,, he should listen and watch the defendant and listen to Sgt. Irwin taken him through the steps of how he was able to have enough room to fire, with his victim on top of him, and how he demonstrates his single-handed technique, leaving his dominant left hand free to nothing but need to be pushed past by gun barrel so he didn’t hit his hand?

      The killer said on video, he was aware of where his left hand was and that he needed to ‘push’ the gun past to avoid hitting it.

      The same video, documents visually and by the killer himself, that he is ‘left-handed’, but as we know, he demonstrates using a single right hand and making sure he was ‘ON his target so he would not miss.

      Or, Mr. Expert2, did you only listen to part of the earlier police audio interview, where the killer said he pulled his gun, aimed it in the victim’s “general direction” and fired one shot.

      Don’t try to play defense expert for Vinnie, making up stuff as you go unless you know the evidence and your killer’s own words and demos thoroughly.

      • ay2z says:

        (well, you know what I mean…. push the barrel past the non gun griping dominant left hand. )

      • tonya B says:

        I agree……. im pissed with Vinnie i almost threw my tv out the window……im not understanding why they are sayin that this shouldn’t be m2 charge when clearly it is i gotta say that linda baden (casey Anthony) former atty said that gz was the aggressor…………………

  27. smokeegyrl says:

    I thought Vinnie was for Trayvon Martin as I had seen him in another video talking badly about Fagan (sounds like Faken) so I guess is… what they’ll do to make money.

    • ay2z says:

      They are using visual media, they are on tv, so they are not about to put their fake jury through listening to evidence that isn’t convenient, unless it’s a clip here or there, they could at least do that.

      But the double=red-gun-handed scenario is so hard to mistake, if Vinnie or his staff had ever looked at how the killer described it, in the minutes of the video.

      But I’ll give the expert this, yes, we saw a photo of the killer practicing at the range with his mentor instructor buddy, and that photo showed the killer practicing with two hands.

      But watch those assumptions, Mr. Expert2, feed that to your false jury panel and they might buy your idea that gravity influence was all there was. But then they will see the killer describe details on a further video, as to positions of the two, and no crouching over involved.

      You know Mr. Knox, expert2, Mr. Morgan?

      Ever watch any of this? And no,, the ‘fistful’ is not a pistol in the opposite hand, not according to the killer describe how his victim had a cupping of his chest as he was right on top, and hans his hands on his mouth and nose and etc and trying to extend PAST his left hand… why do you need to extend PAST your non-shooting hand if the non-shooting hand is part of a double hand grip on the gun?

  28. ay2z says:

    “square peg in a round hole” doesn’t do what he’s told….

  29. bettykath says:

    1. The stippling is how far the GUN is from the victim, not the person holding the gun who may be up close or a full arm length away.

    2. The “reenactment” is not the theory of the police, it is the defendant’s story.

    3. It was raining that night. I would expect everyone’s jacket to be wet. If there was grass it means only that the defendant was on his back at some point, not that he stayed or that he was necessarily there when the shot was fired.

    I think it’s going to be very frustrating watching the tv “experts” during this trial.

    • elcymoo says:

      Remember the video of GZ getting out of the police car at SPD the night of the shooting? A cop brushed at the back of his jacket, and then after he walked around the back of the car, another one brushed something off on leg of his pants. Isn’t that destroying trace evidence?

    • Well, they are going to suffer embarrassment and humiliation when they misinterpret evidence as Michael Knox and Joseph Scott Morgan have discovered.

      • bettykath says:

        llmpapa destroyed Knox. How long will it take this new joker to go down in flames? If HLN gets the word, maybe he’ll just disappear.

      • ay2z says:

        And there’s the no shoe collection and allowing killer to wash his hands on his own, and what about the ‘no gloves’ risk for bodily fluids, touching the killer’s skin then hooking thumbs extra casual fashion?

        What’s that about, sure seemed confident he carried no strange diseases, even confident that all the blood and any saliva was not risky too (not from anyone but the killer), cause he knew him buddy buddy cop cop like?

    • bettykath says:

      I said the “reenactment” is the defendant’s story, but even that isn’t true.

    • bettykath says:

      I watched the video again while just accepting some of his imprecise word choices.

      Actually giving credit where it’s due, he was correct that the only injuries to Trayvon were the bullet wound, the stippling and the small abrasion on his finger. He is correct that it doesn’t look like there are any defensive wounds but neither are there any offensive wounds.

      He went off the rails when he tried to “reenact” the stippling. He could have used a much better demonstration to explain the stippling without mangling his version of the events that don’t match anyone’s story.

  30. lurker says:

    Not to change the subject (although I guess I am), I have been pondering this:

    PLEASE TAKE NOTICE that on Thursday, June 6,2013 at 9:00 a.m., or as soon thereafter
    as counsel can be heard, the undersigned will bring on to be heard the following . . .
    Defendant’s Sealed Confidential Motion to Maintain Anonymity andConfidentiality ofCertain
    Witnesses . . .

    Any bets on what that’s about?

    After giving it substantial thought, I have decided that Zimmerman wants to trot out some black people with bags on their heads (to protect them from the NBPP, Crump, Sharpton and all the evil-doers of the “Black Community”) to testify that they have known Georgie all their lives and he hasn’t got a racist bone in his body.

    Any takers?

    • crazy1946 says:

      Perhaps the prosecution could file a motion similar to some of the ones that MOM has submitted, that contain the names and addresses and phone numbers complete with photos, requesting a new hearing about allowing them to remain anonymous? Tit for tat?

    • No idea. Whatever. Anything denied, and he’ll just cry to the Court of Appeals. He is using that Court of Appeals just like a bar, if you ask me; when he gets his way, he belches, tosses the glass and moves to the next extraordinary remedy.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Ooooo. Ooo. How about Fogen’s SISTER?

    • ay2z says:

      Betting sis Gracie is in there somewhere to talk about her texts and convos with big baby tubgro. Like where hubby and wifey planning to do shopping together, maybe? or related to that or Trayvon sightings or …. who knows.

      If this is actually a defense witness, not a state witness listed as defense to cover every eventuality, they might have another purpose for her, hope she goes into ‘character’ if so.

    • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

      Idk, but what exactly is a sealed confidential motion? Who sealed it? Why has the press not filed a motion or something to see this motion. I thought motions were public in Florida because if the Sunshine Law.

  31. ay2z says:

    Amazing, Prof. How can we share this article with MSNBC and Vinnie? His expert has already laid his opinion out there, with incomplete ‘evidence’ for the world to see.

    Two hands on the pistol. Proof this expert2 has no idea that this shooter used one hand and one hand only. That’s critical to know for obvious reasons.

    Thank you for this for Trayvon.

  32. }:)

    Nice try, HLN.

    Ow ow owwwwwww!

  33. I had to download the video and post it so LLMPapa & everyone could see. **facepalm**

    • ay2z says:

      SG, I accidentally put this reply to you above, will copy it in the right place.

      Again, thanks.

      ay2z says:
      June 4, 2013 at 1:07 pm
      T’hanks so much SG. Notice the 12 jurors? They will have the same scant and differing defendant statement evidence by the easiest route, the visual video.

  34. willisnewton says:

    Don’t forget the 40 foot “stumble” – unless of course you are George in which case you can forget / contradict yourself all you want .

    • Swatting flies
      at night
      in February
      in the rain.

      Yah, shure.

      You betcha.

      • ‘Tas a 40 foot skip me Lad……….All us wee Leprechauns know that…..

      • tinytruthseeker says:

        Vinnie POLITAN….. no O…. want to be sure he gets ALL the credit he deserves for misrepresenting the way George Zimmerman “says” the shot happened….

        Thank you Professor for putting in words all the feelings and helpless frustration I was experiencing as I watched the TV the night this joke of a reenactment was aired….

    • ay2z says:

      T’hanks so much SG. Notice the 12 jurors? They will have the same scant and differing defendant statement evidence by the easiest route, the visual video.

  35. TheMindIsATerribleThingToWaste says:

    I didn’t even watch. Who really takes HLN seriously though?I really wish that we had serious legal shows like back in the 90’s or so, because this silliness being passed over as real discussions on current legal cases, is sad. You may get a sprinkle here and there with credible and sensible legal analysts, but this network and their shows are more focused on entertainment than anything else. Vinnie is cool though.

    • They’re turning these trials into nothing more than game shows…….wit their own “juries”, “experts” and such….

      I vote fogen to be the winner of American Idiot……

      MOM can with the Idiot Attorney award…..

      • TheMindIsATerribleThingToWaste says:

        Exactly. Taking real life serious issues and exploiting them or something. It’s just weird and goofy. The way some of them comport themselves is just bizarre. LOL @ your last two statements mountain.

      • racerrodig says:

        Did you catch juror #7 last night ?? She was a good ole southern girl, about 50….and quoted verbatim O’ Mara and Stutzman.

      • Mandelbaum says:

        @racer, I saw Peggy-Sue last night. She did her best Nancy Grace sneer when she resited the scripted lines fed to her by the defense. It was laughable.

        But worse! Did you see real-life former Detective Mike Brookes nut-up saying how fogen was ‘being pummeld to death” by Trayvon when he HAD TO shoot and kill him?! W T F !!! How could anyone be punched in the face more that 2 or 3 times and come away with NO black eyes, swelling or broken bones? Mr. Brookes should know better!!

        Have ANY of the HLN people even GLANCED at the evidence?!

        • racerrodig says:

          They are laughable and if they do know anything about even half the evidence, and take the stance they do, they have a very obvious agenda.

      • On HLNAfterDark last night, the attorneys were saying that since the arrest of Fogen that no evidence has come out that contradicts what he has said. Have they not read the autopsy report? How about the lack of DNA? Minor lacerations are not the result of a skull being slammed repeatedly against concrete, that would result in a concussion at the very least IF it happened like GZ claimed. TM’s knuckles would be scraped and his nails would have been ragged yet none of this is seen in the autopsy. To say there was no evidence is to admit that you are ill-informed and don’t belong on any panel which is speaking about this case.

    • lurker says:

      I’m just glad that HLN doesn’t have an exclusive and MSNBC is promising to provide full coverage.

      Did anyone look at the court seating chart? Right there with the names of a dozen or so other press reps is Marinade Dave. Got an aisle seat, too.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I’m so glad MD will be there. Hope he’ll do lots of posts.

        • racerrodig says:

          Yeeeeeeeeee Haaaaaaaaa !! I’m doing my Dave, Dave, Dave chant right now.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          We’re going to need a number of different live feed sites, because not everyone can get all of them, so post the links early. I’ll copy them to my evidence pile so everyone will know where they are.
          Thanks all

      • TheMindIsATerribleThingToWaste says:

        Yeah, me too. I think HLN and CourtTV is owned by the same company or something. CourtTV only broadcasts a case for about 2 hours now. I guess that’s pretty much over. Regarding your last comment, I’ve heard of the name before. As long as he is justice for Trayvon, good for Marinade Dave.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        to mindisterrible

        hln is a division of CNN

  36. I know why there was nothing on the heels of zimmerass’s boots.

    He had them on backwards like everything else in his story.

    He forgot he had them on backwards. That is all I got for why there is nothing on the heels of his boots from his life saving shimmy.

    Hoodies Up!!!!

  37. Shari says:

    Unethical. I am getting fed up with the media.

  38. Rachael says:

    Somebody please please promise me GZ is not gonna walk on this one.

    • willisnewton says:

      If the trial were anyplace but Florida I’d give you that assurance.

    • Shari says:

      Casey Anthony and OJ were found not guilty. It happens. I am prepared for any event.

      • racerrodig says:

        BUT ….both said “….huh ?? what, not me, I didn’t kill anyone”

      • Two sides to a story says:

        There seem to be fewer problems with the state’s case with Fogen. And people don’t take too kindly to killing minors, so we’ll see.

      • Mandelbaum says:

        @Shari Robert Blake was also found not guilty. Why does EVERY ONE remember O.J. but never Rober Blake?!

        • racerrodig says:

          Keep in mind they said they didn’t do it. I think they did, the jury probably knows they did……and O. J. did have real lawyers, we all remember “The Dream Team”

          Fogen……..eh…….not so much.

      • ic2fools says:

        Still won’t save Fogen from a life of hell, no matter where he goes. As if the racists who support him seat him at their dinner table.

        Trayvons’ murder will haunt him the rest of his dayz. Getting to him know, look at Fogen he’s about to lose it. Fogen cockey snub attitude surely diminished these past months.

    • pat deadder says:

      I know Rachael I’m with you.I couldn’t watch the BS video.Why are so called news channels allowed to prejudice the jury.None of this is allowed in Canada and now I’m glad.

      • Plantain Republic says:

        This blog and access to so much case info is also not allowed in Canada. Plus, NO media outlet is allowed to cover a major case such as this one in Canada. And I doubt they would even if it was allowed.

        Why do you think that so many Canadians are on this and many, many other U.S. blogs? They’re not allowed in Canada, and most Canadians seem to pretend that such things don’t happen in Canada. And when they do happen, everyone pretends that it didn’t happen. Then instantly (typical knee-jerk) console each other with reminderes that more bad things happen in the U.S..

        Canada is a hot bed of censorship. And they’re fine with it, and don’t want to see or hear of anything negative…….. in Canada.

  39. Trained Observer says:

    Maybe Politano and his “expert” death investigator Morgan can get together with Knox for a round of Three Stooges iinterviews.Super informative post.

  40. Two sides to a story says:

    “I believe they were attempting to account for a straight-on shot front to back where the muzzle of the gun was in contact with the hoodie and shirt underneath it, but the fabric was 2 to 12 inches from the entry wound.”

    Me too, and they should have said so, otherwise what they did is very misleading.

    And yup, that control of Trayvon by Fogen and Trayvon’s screams are why the State of FL charged 2M.

    If Fogen would confess, he’d feel so much better.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      LOL – *M2*

    • Trained Observer says:

      And if frogs had wings …

    • ay2z says:

      As in make the crime fit the evidence Mr. Expert man? Not even a good attempt, Mr. Expert2, the re-enactment was just showing the squat of the killer because he wasn’t doing an exact ‘re-enactment’ where he was being too lazy or keeping too ‘clean’ to get on the ground.

      Mr. Expert2, had the killer dropped to his knees, he might have grass on his shoes a second time, like this….

      • ic2fools says:

        What the Heck! @0.17 Fogen walked across the sidewalk to my street Retreat View Circle. Where I thought I would meet a police officer I CALLED……

        OK, you said on the reenactment walk through you walked across the sidewalk to get an address an never mentioned a damn thing about walking over there to meet a police officer you called.


        Which lie is it the address of meeting an officer you called.

        Your azz is grass and Bernie De La Rionda is the lawnmower.

      • racerrodig says:

        Another bs line is this crap that Fogen has water and grass on his back…..Really Mr. Expert quoting the police.

        As for me, I’ll believe the pictures, and of course there is none of that in any picture, especially the 1st one at the crime scene. No water on Fogen’s head and no water dilution of his boo – boo’s either.

      • Soulcatcher says:

        And if you went accross to Retreat View Circle to get an address, why did you not give NEN the address, instead you said “could you just have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at.

        George, you could have stayed in your shruck and told NEN to have them call you to let them know where you where at.

        If you went there to meethe officer you called, why did you then turn around and walk back towards your truck.

        Why would anybody walk all that way to get an address or meet someone when they were not going to be there. Did you call back the officer you were suppose to meet to let him know you were not going to be where you were going to meet him at?

        • ic2fools says:


          Now I believe Fogen did meet the officer he called, it is making more sense why he walked there. Remember the witness said she saw a man in a white shirt. The officer Fogen called was either an off duty officer or he was referring to Osterman using his code on Hannity not to say Ostermans’ name, btw skedaddled before uniforms got there. Only to re appear as a concerned bystander.

          Ha! We’ll find out about the man in the white shirt. Other witnesses described ‘voices’ and ‘just sounded like a bunch of the guys’.

          Phone records will be damning, when BDLR releases them in court.

      • Mandelbaum says:

        I’m with you ic2fools. Who was the Police Officer that fogen called? Osterman? One of the beat cops that soon arrived? Who? And why has no one questioned MOM about that statement? He was sitting beside fogen when he said it to Hannity.

        Also, who ELSE has fogen shot? Hmmnnn.

        • ic2fools says:

          OM doesn’t care, hopes it wasn;t noticed by the money train.
          Mr De La Rionda knows, he secured a copy of hannity/fogen interview to use as evidence for trial. Along with fogen, shellie and racist robbies’ phone records, Soon we’ll all know about Everyone the trained Suppression Grappling Kickboxing fogen called. Before murdering Trayvon..

          So sad Trayvon never had a chance.

        • racerrodig says:

          “Also, who ELSE has fogen shot? Hmmnnn.Also, who ELSE has fogen shot? Hmmnnn.”

          There is speculation that he was after somebody else and didn’t know Trayvon was not “somebody else”

          I wanted to shoot Bob, but shot somebody else, kind of thing. There is a lot of buzz in LE that Fogen was involved with some unsavory characters….and from my connections talk, I’d tend to believe that.

          His NEN call is something called “Set up by cop” My dad was a cop and when calls started to be recorded this started growing since there is a record of what the caller says…..kill the “perp” Viola…No witnesses, other than the set up.

    • lurker says:

      Yeah, they did kinda say at the end that what they acted out could have accounted for the forensic evidence. But they should have noted that it in not way coincides with the defendent’s version of events. And if they were going to do that, they might just as well have provided some other scenarios (standing face-to-face, for instance) or suggested why they landed on this particular one.

  41. Two sides to a story says:

    Alpha! Now I’ll read!

    • Big Willie says:

      @Two sides:

      You look like you’re up to something, so Im going in the same direction as you.

      • OK, we don’t need you to do that. 😉

      • ic2fools says:

        Ok but I’m not gonna give you the address right in front of me ain’t no street sign.

        So imma get you an address on the other side the T there might be a street sign ova there……


      • bettykath says:

        Watch him, BigWillie, he’s runnin’, uh, skippin’, uh, crippin’?

        • racerrodig says:

          “…shit, he ran….no wait,….um, he’s doing hands stands and “hand standing” away….but not in fear….no, now he’s brake dancing….
          ……I don’t know what his deal is..”

      • ladystclaire says:

        Oh no, he’s doing the gangsta lean. lmao

        • Back in the 70’s I did the gangsta lean…..and I’m white….

          “Diggin’ the scene in a gangsta lean”…Curtis Mayfield

          • ic2fools says:

            My jam! A Mountain Man with Gangsta leanin’, then lean wit babi! This one is for you mountainmanpat:

          • Hey……had to be low goin’ down the freeway passin’ one of them maryjawana cigarettes back and forth…

            Had a ’61 Caddy low rider with gangster whitewalls & Cragar Supremes 🙂

          • ic2fools says:

            You were a cool kat ridin pat. Brings back good memories ay. Back down memory lane — minne riperton got her playin now.

      • @mountainmanpat

        “Diggin’ the scene in a gangsta lean”…Curtis Mayfield

        Go on with your bad self!

        Curtis Mayfield is a legend!

        • Yes Mam…..Bad self going on……..This was back in the days of my little hotrod ’66 ‘Tang….

          Always been a MoTown fan…….

          • I love Curtis Mayfield. We did a music series of him a few months ago.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            mmpat says

            .This was back in the days of my little hotrod ’66 ‘Tang….

            that would be the ’66 ‘poon Tang’ magnet of legend?

            fast back? pony interior? 351C? dual 4 barrel carbs? glass packs and a dual exhaust? i need that or better 🙂

          • Coupe…..289 w/ 4bbl….4 spd…black diamond tuck interior………custom paint (red and black)…..ass end all jacked up…U.S. Indy mags…….4 Cherry Bomb glass packs hanging under it…..Yeah Poon ‘Tang getter…..also got me my late wife…….

            If you remember Ascot park in LA..(Where the 91 & the 10 collide)
            Dirt track stockers…..that was out first date 🙂

            And I used to get the bizarre tickets….

            “Exhibition of Speed”…….didn’t say I WAS speeding….being ticketed for exhibiting how fast it could get up to speed….

            Another for “Unsafe Start”……..That means lighting them up at the stop light….How I loved the smell of burnt rubber in the evenings 🙂

            Gave it up for a “family” car after she started poppin’ out kids….4 in 9 years……..had the plumbing disconnected after the last one

          • fauxmccoy says:


            yepperz, that would ‘get er done’ 😉

          • Had a light over the differential………which had written on it..

            “EVIL WICKED MEAN & NASTY”

            Sure as he was fun driving the 395 from Victorville up to Bridgeport….Good road to peg the speedo on 🙂

            Another part of my youth I survived :\

          • fauxmccoy says:

            mmpat says

            Another part of my youth I survived :\

            i know the feeling, man.

          • I’ve always named my cars and trucks..the ‘Tang was Marty…….Currently?…Timmy Tacoma…& Jimmy the Jeep 🙂

            Done for the night folks…Ya’ll have a good night & a better tomorrow 🙂

            HOODIES UP


          • racerrodig says:

            My Mustang was named Esmeralda…..and was bad to the bone.
            12.41 @ 109+ back in the mid 70’s through the pipes, on G60 – 14’s. No technology like there is today…..lots a cam, lots a gear, shit at 7K and drive real hard…..
            ……….repair as needed.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            racer says

            ……….repair as needed.

            you and pat remind me sooooo much of my bro, the mechanic. someone gave us go-carts when we were kids and the minute we learned to adjust the carb we were off to the races on our huge circular driveway. it just got wackier from there. i remember him getting popped for something like ‘display of speed’ … basically just showing off at a stop sign, coming home to tell my mom. she said ‘well stop being such a hot rodder!’ his response was ‘mom, i am not a hot rodder, merely a performance enthusiast.’ he had to pay the ticket any way. :p

          • racerrodig says:

            My new avatar is a pic of Esmeralda….I won the down payment on my 1st house street racing that car in 78…went from 10/75 to the day I sold it in 12/79 and not one car ever “..got a fender out…” on me.

          • cielo62 says:

            Who the fuck is “truth on”? What a stupid Zidiot.

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • racerrodig says:

            Not a word of truth to what “truth” posts….yep, another blabbering Zidiot. I guess that’s the best they have.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Don’t talk to him, he doesn’t listen to anything and merely responds with more nonsense. Malia doesn’t seem to care, it’s her blog and she’s mainly anti Palin.

          • cielo62 says:

            Racer- Esmeralda was GORGEOUS!

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • racerrodig says:

            Thank you….it was a cool ride. I did the entire car other than the paint. Maybe I’ll change my avatar to my 69 Cyclone tomorrow.

            Where’s mmp ?? the other Mustang guy.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            she’s gorgeous, racer!

          • ic2fools says:

            Racer, you change cars like I change shoes n purses 🙂 Way too cool.

            Your cars are beauties, Especially your ’32 caddy she’s pure class.

            Buddy your are a male diva, from your car closet to your man cave….

            Racer go on now n keep strutin’ your struts!!!!

          • cielo62 says:

            Racer~ I also name my cars. My current car is Quetzalcoatlus, an ancient winged flying dinosaur. The green Honda I had before this was Quetzalcoatl, the Mayan god of dreams and visions (even though she was “Aztec Green”). I’ve had strange names for all of my cars. My very first car, a 1977 Honda Civic Hatchback, white with a blue racing stripe, was called Rocinante. Man, I loved that car!


          • racerrodig says:

            English is foreign enough for me…so I could never have helped you name any of your cars…..I can’t even pronounce them !! My first was a ’63 Ford Fairlane 221 V8. Then I found an identical 63 Fairlane except it was the 287 271 Hi – Po – 4 speed version….Ahh, my first taste of HP !! Then my 69 Cyclone, the Mustang, a 69 Ford Torino Cobra 428 Cobra Jet, a 70 Cyclone. Off Topic…sorry.

          • parrot says:

            Rocinante, LOL. I named my jalopy “Plebeyo.”

          • First car?….’48 Dodge delivery sedan…….paid 50 bucks for it..


          • racerrodig says:

            Because you’d name name a car “Wimpy” that’s for sure !!!

          • Yeah….my high school hippie days…

            Funny what wearing green for a few years does to a young man……..Did buy a brand new bike when I got out…..Triumph 750 Trident 🙂

          • racerrodig says:

            I was never a bike guy, but if I had one I’d build a CA style chopper, Arlen Ness style.

            I did help a good friend of mine back 77 – 78 build a 750 Trumpet into a chopper. It mad eevery bike magazine in the country. He eventually started his own custom bike shop.

            The Fonz rode a 75 Triumph !!

          • cielo62 says:

            Parrot- LOL! So I’m not so weird after all! PHEW!

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62

          • parrot says:

            If you are, I like your kind of weird!

          • racerrodig says:

            “display of speed” & “breaking traction” were the ones that the cops tried to use. Amazingly, with all the street racing I did, I never got a ticket. I did have a state trooper make a pretty good size bet on me one night. He kept following our troupe trying to get the race off and he said….OK, this part is safe…..who’s got the faster car. Just about everyone said, bet on racer….so he did.

            Whopped that 69 RoadRunner like it was nothing !!

          • Oh….ever take the Baker / Death Valley route?……..another road you could open it up on……

          • fauxmccoy says:

            mmpat says

            Oh….ever take the Baker / Death Valley route?……..another road you could open it up on……

            oh hell yeah, man. in ’95 i took my (new to me) ’62 mercury monterey (352 ci, 3 on the tree, no ‘power’ anything) from san francisco to your neck of the woods, south to NM, AZ then home on nothing but 2 lane hiways (or less). lovely camping spot outside glenwood springs, but higher up, called ‘coffeepot springs’, it’s gorgeous! replaced my generator in alamosa while asswipe exboyfriend was taking some steam train excursion into NM. great trip, end of a crappy relationship. all good.

          • racerrodig says:

            Naaaaaa. You need one of my custom built engines. 351C….not in this day and age…..I have far better bullets to use than that.

      • Big Willie says:

        June 10th – People Get Ready

        Lyrics to People Get Ready :

        People get ready, there’s a train comin’
        You don’t need no baggage, you just get on board
        All you need is faith to hear the diesels hummin’
        You don’t need no ticket you just thank the lord

        People get ready, there’s a train to Jordan
        Picking up passengers coast to coast
        Faith is the key, open the doors and board them
        There’s hope for all among those loved the most
        There ain’t no room for the hopeless sinner whom would hurt all mankind
        Just to save his own
        Have pity on those whose chances grow thinner
        For there is no hiding place against the kingdoms throne

        People get ready there’s a train comin’
        You don’t need no baggage, just get on board
        All you need is faith to hear the diesels hummin’
        You don’t need no ticket, just thank the lord

      • abbyj1 says:

        Willie, Southern Girl2, & ic2fools, you guys are cracking me up!

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Yep, gz is a cold blooded murderer, one who cowardly goes after young, thin, weak, defenseless black children with his firearm locked and loaded to the hilt with especially deadly cheap hollow point rounds that often fragment and make survival impossible.

      Then he sits there and looks at everyone with those “please have pity on poor me” eyes.

      Remember, he didn’t just grab his gun and jump out of the truck. He first loaded the gun clip to the max, the put that in the gun, racked it to put one in the chamber, then removed the clip and added an extra round. All special cheap hollow point rounds, to be sure to kill whatever he hit. Then he called the police to report that he, himself, was suspicious of a black child he saw out in the rain.

      When the child saw him watching with an angry look on his face, the child got scared and ran away. Then gz decided not to wait for the police and he got out of his truck and ran after the kid. Moments later, even as gz tells us he never went south to catch the kid, and says the kid came north after him. We find the kid dead 45 feet south of where gz says he was attacked and the child has no evidence of any such attack on his hands.

      Question: Would gz lie to avoid spending 30 some years in prison? Difficult question to answer eh?

      • mgs710 says:

        The professor, LLMPapa, you and many of the other posters on here are the best. TV doesn’t get to the truth, It seems like it only can be found on this site.

      • racerrodig says:

        Oh ! Oh ! Oh ! Pick me I know !!!

        I’ll take “Lies to use for avoiding prison for $5,000.00”

      • So much win in this comment, I never thought about the extra steps with the gun. Good point.

      • lady2soothe says:

        The trained fighter was actually Zimmerman…

        The new evidence list includes information that Zimmerman trained at a Longwood gym that specializes in boxing and kickboxing.

        A webpage for the business, Kokopelli’s Gym, describes it as “the most complete fight gym in the world.”


        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Yeah and this is before he became a bouncer and hired out as “Muscle”! What a loser! Well, maybe those wrist locks will serve him in prison. But I somehow think he’ll be learning lip locks! Hahaha.

      • LOL, would gz lie to avoid spending time in prison? Well, we all know the answer to that one. In listening to the interview that was first done w/Singleton immediately after the shooting, GZ says that he felt TM’s hand sliding down his side, then jumps to TM banging his head on the concrete as he reaches for his gun and shoots him. So he decided to add the bit about him holding TM’s hand later? HUGE contradiction! This is not a “minor” discrepancy as the defense refers to in their hopes of spinning GZ’s lies for the potential jury. How can you forget something like that? You can’t IF you’re telling the truth, which is what we have yet to hear from GZ.

        GZ’s statement that he unholstered his gun and shot TM in the torso because he was in fear for his life because the suspect had assured him he was going to kill him sounds as if it was tailor-made for a SYG hearing. Too bad that MOM was afraid to even attempt one for his client, knowing that he couldn’t put him on the stand to tell his story due to the number of different fairy tales he’s told already.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          If an attacker has his hands on your head, near your face and eyes, your reflexes will not let you move your hands away from your face. Most especially not long enough to reach for a weapon, that your hand can’t very quickly get to. You would only have a split second to grab your gun, before your reflexes forced you to pull your hands back up to protect your face and eyes.

          If they get gz to lay on his back with a gun in his waistband like he says it was, under a shirt and jacket with someone sitting on his belly with their legs close to his ribcage. Each time their hands get near his eyes, he will stop reaching for he weapon an try to protect his face. It’s as hard, if not harder, than trying to not blink as someone moves their fingers towards your eyes. There’s just no way his reflexes are going to let him take his hands away from his face long enough to squeeze a hand between the guys leg and reach for a gun in a holster under his butt, inside his pants under a shirt and jacket.

    • Big Willie says:

      Why bother chasing me or watch me crip walk and throw gang signs? Why not just shoot me in the heart, and then I’ll throw my hands up and Say, “I give up ” OR “you got me”.

    • cielo62 says:

      SHADES OF KNOX! Where did these morons get their “evidence”??

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