Get a load of LLMPapa’s latest

Tuesday, June 4, 2013

Good evening sports fans.

Here’s Papa’s latest.


Are you ready?

280 Responses to Get a load of LLMPapa’s latest

  1. turtlecoal says:

    Hey everybody Im a big admire of all the post here. I told myself I would become more proactive in this blog instead of just reading it. You guys &gals have been the most insightful blog about this case without the racial bias & undertones. My girlfriend (before we broke up) would ask WHY are you always looking at this blog & viewing videos involving Trayvon. I never told her the exact reason but I will tell you guys the most impassioned supporters as she was not .

    13 years ago My first son was born & he has a name that sounds like “Trayvon”. I was 19 at the time working a deadbeat job, but it put food on the table. 1 day while I was shopping I seen the new jordans were out & I was stoked!. I went in footlocker all set to by a pair. Then I suddenly remembered I couldn’t. These shoes would be diapers or baby formula or clothing for my son. But I can afford to buy him a pair even though he couldn’t walk yet. So I bought my son those Jordans & it felt good. People would comment how nice my kid looked not just because he was a cute baby but also his apparel. When I seen Trayvon father cry & heard Trayvons screams it touched me profoundly. But what really caught my eye was his shoes. Those shoes are the same shoes I set out for & realized I as a father had a responsibility to my son first(I realized it before I just hadnt put it into action yet XD). Those were the exact Jordans I bought my son.

    A couple years later I went to the military, went to war but putting those shoes on my sons feet were a proud moment. He eventually learned to walk in them & I still have the pictures. With my family constantly moving me & my ex wife lost the shoes .

    But when I saw Trayvon in the store I could spot them a mile away. & I for some odd reason I knew Trayvon was loved by family & friends, & to be taken so senselessly is unacceptable.

    Mr leatherman & the bloggers here (I know all of your names & writing styles) thanks for showing this 33 year old broke down war vet that there is empathy & sympathy & compassion for human beings no matter the hue or sexual orientation.

    • Welcome home…….

    • diary73 says:

      He is most certainly trying to do just that. A few of his followers have mad comment about people “they know” being contacted already by summons.

    • diary73 says:

      Thank you for sharing, turtle.

    • fauxmccoy says:


      what a beautiful, yet bittersweet story. thanks for posting, please — don’t stop and welcome aboard.

      • turtlecoal says:

        Trayvon’s mother & father has shown a calm strength that is beyond belief due to there circumstance. That MUST be commended in thier pursuit for justice for thier son.

        • fauxmccoy says:


          aye, they are a bastion of strength and elegance in the most dire of circumstances. i doubt i could fare as well and pray that i never have to find out.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      Dear Turtlecoal,
      Thank you for all your service. And for sharing the love you have for your children. Everyone here has sympathy for Trayvon as we have sympathy for children even if they are not our own, and I completely understand the need to read here.

      But broke down!? If your wisdom was more hard won than other people’s, it must be all the more solid. Please don’t despair– and besides, there are a sack of bloggers here who’d love to be 33 years old again.
      always Cercando Luce

    • Malisha says:

      TurtleCoal — so good, getting to know you! You sound like a great father. 😀

    • Welcome to the blog and thank you for sharing your beautiful and poetic story about the meaning of love and the sudden impact of putting your son before yourself.

      I have a daughter but no son. I think Trayvon is the son many of us wish we had. He is for me and that is one reason why I seek Justice for Trayvon.

      Please keep on writing. You have the gift.

    • groans says:

      Welcome aboard, turtlecoal!

      I was so touched by your story. And you told it so well that those of us who may have very little in common with you could “step inside your shoes” momentarily and feel that watershed moment of yours a dozen or so years ago.

      I hope Tracy Martin is reading it, too. You both sound like deeply loving and proud dads.

    • racerrodig says:

      Well said. We’ve all had things go on in our lives and learned lessons. PiranhaMom stated a few weeks ago that the real deep down reason we are here is love. Even those who stated they are interested in justice kind of looked past the real reason. It’s a love for our fellow human beings, our neighbors, our friends.

      Black, White, Yellow, Green, Red… makes no difference to those who care. Welcome to the “insanity” as the Professor has made sure this is a safe landing zone for those who do love each other and, despite never having met Trayvon nor his family, care enough to jump into the flames and support what is right.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Keep talking!

  2. Romaine says:

    ge = get

  3. Romaine says:

    I wonder if OM is scheming to ge this clients online supporters as jurors for his trial via this annonymus juror scandal.

    • Trained Observer says:

      What scandal?

      As for scheming, don’t see that as likely. Summons cards go out via a computerized system based on voter and/or driver license registrations. Some of GE’s online supporters could well be caught up in casting a net for 500 or so prospects, but would be weeded out in a screening questionnaire or the more intense follow-up during one-on-one questioning.

      To lie — “No I dunno nuthin’ about this here Fogen case, and I’ve never posted online or sent him any money” –, brings risk of a charge.

      Case in point: A Palm Beach County juror in the case of a polo mogul convicted in an alcohol-rleated vehicular death is now facing trial for failing to mention that his ex-wife was involved in a DUI.

      • Romaine says:

        I get what you are saying, yet there maybe a few who are willing to take the chance with the belief of not getting caught…the bigger arguement would be if his supporters communicated such jurors to the defense and they buy into it to get a not guilty verdict; because they too believe they can get away with it..

        I put nothing pass the defense and its supporters at this point.

  4. diary73 says:

    Shawn, the old moderator for the GZLC Facebook page communicates regularly with the current posters on Carole and Michael Green’s FB page, which has the same posters from GZ’s original page: Annette, David Percey, AJ, Dena, Jojo, Claudia aka Red Riding Hoodie, just to name a few. Annette announced to them in open forum that Shawn wanted to meet with them this week and that “Mark and Don” will be there.

    It is so funny that O’Mara dismantled his old FB page only to have his old moderator remain in constant contact with this page: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Updates & Discussions.

    I have several screen shots of Annette’s and Carole’s communication with the O’Mara team.

    Why dismantle the original page if his representative (the exact same moderator) is openly in contact with the same people on this new page?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Yes, I noted that too, diary73. Annette also has a support blog in her name and speaks of contact with GZLC periodically. She was banned by Sundance at the Treestump because she likes OM. She blogged with Diwataman for a bit then opened her own. Most of the posters she has are former Treepers who don’t like SD’s dislike of OM, but there are also current Treepers there, and a few from the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Updates & Discussions too.

      I think Annette’s group is the one most in contact with GZLC.

    • racerrodig says:

      It simple…..because…

  5. JustMe says:

    *HEAD… shaking my head… lol sorry..

  6. George Zimmerman jurors will be anonymous at trial, judge rules,0,5478146.story

    The judge in the George Zimmerman second-degree murder case today ruled that his jury will remain anonymous throughout the trial.

    Circuit Judge Debra Nelson’s ruling says attorneys in the case are to refer to jurors by number, not name, during jury selection, which begins Monday in Sanford. Writes Nelson: “This is to be done in order to protect the prospective jurors from harassment and pressure from the public at large.”

    Nelson’s ruling notes that the media outlets covering the trial have agreed not to photograph the Zimmerman jurors.

    Though defense attorney Mark O’Mara had asked the judge to sequester the entire jury pool — hundreds of people set to begin arriving at the Seminole County criminal courthouse Monday, almost all of whom won’t make the cut — Nelson ruled that “such drastic measures are unneceassary and, in fact, not practical based upon the resources available to the Court.”

    The Orlando Sentinel is still reviewing the ruling. Check back later for updates.


    Click to access limine_use_of_terms.pdf

    • JustMe says:

      lolol.. you beat me to it.. I wanted to be the one to post the comedy from GZ Legal..

    • GirlP says:

      That was really stupid, we don’t want the state to prosecute is what they are saying. I knew this would be denied and so did O’Mara/West.

    • SearchingMind says:

      The first thing that struck me after reading the Motion is that it regards the exclusion of “terms” and not evidence (i.e. written/oral statements, object, etc .). That’s odd. “Terms” and “evidence” are two different things. Chapter 90 of the Evidence Code of Florida Statute deals with the admissibility of evidence, not “terms”. O’Mara however pursues the exclusion of certain “terms” without disputing the facts underlying such terms. Maybe the Professor can weigh in, but I do not think that sections 90.403 and 90.401 Florida Statute can be relied upon to force the State to characterize/“term” a set of its evidence the way it suits the defense.

      I will be back with more.

    • towerflower says:

      Maybe they’ll grant e., since he got out of the vehicle first before he was told not to follow.

    • racerrodig says:

      “…these assholes..” and “…fucking coons…” are inflamatory……

      ….”..profiled…” “…got out of his truck…” and such, eh…not so much.

      Note to Moron O’ Mara….buy a dictionary and look these up….not to mention the word “Denied”

      Know it, Learn it, Live it.

        • racerrodig says:

          De ~ nied
          Da ~ nied
          Den ~ ied
          Dee ~ nied
          Daaa ~ nied
          For the last time De ~ nied !!
          Denied, what part don’t you understand
          I already ruled on that and it’s denied…

          Any way you look at it it…’s No, sorry dork….DENIED.

  8. diary73 says:

    I am still concerned about O’Mara’s release of information on Trayvon and other antics. At what point is O’Mara in violation of some kind of rule or law of ethics?

    1. Trayvon was a minor, and private information about a minor should not be released.
    2. He and BDLR agreed not to publish anything from the phones initially.
    3. I thought there were laws concerning telecommunications being exempt from Sunshine Laws.
    4. O’Mara lacked proof of authentication prior to releasing some of what he claims to be Trayvon ( tattoo on wrong arm, tweets, Facebook posts, video of “refereeing fight.”).
    5. O’Mara gave a false statement to the judge to gain leverage for her “open mind” about allowing information about fighting.
    6. O’Mara’s repeatedly gave false statements to the media about “irrefutable” evidence about GZ’s “broken nose” and Trayvon’s “knuckle injuries consistent” with beating GZ.
    7….and on, and on, and on.


    • Nef05 says:

      I agree. Regarding your #7, I’m wondering if the inclusion of the misrepresented (lied about) video, in the request for a writ from the 5DCA, which was accepted and granted (in a limited fashion) becomes an issue.

      While O’Mara “might” be able to make the argument that Judge Nelson did not outright admit the evidence at the hearing so “no harm, no foul” – he cannot make that argument about the request for the writ since it was accepted and granted (one presumes) based partially on the exhibits (evidence?) attached to it.

      I certainly don’t know how these fine points would be looked at by the courts, but if I was an appellate judge, I’d be upset with O’Mara.

  9. Large Donations Spur Zimmerman Defense Fund

    A handful of large donations have bolstered the Zimmerman Defense Fund, bringing the total raised in a week to more than $77,000. This week’s surge in donations has allowed us to to pay outstanding liabilities, which were in excess of $20,000, and make significant investments in deposition transcripts and experts.

    We have important hearings Thursday and Friday of this week, and jury selection for the trial begins on Monday. During trial, the Zimmerman defense team will be “all hands on deck,” and there will be additional operational expenses. We also anticipate increased security expenses during trial.

    The support we have received in the last week has given us hope that we will be able to meet our goal of $120,000.

    • diary73 says:

      If GZ ever wanted to come clean and just tell the TRUTH about what happened that night, this support he has gained will prevent him from doing so. He knows the hate his supporters are capable of, and he certainly does not want that wrath to be unleashed in him. For the sake of his life, unfortunately, he cannot come clean.

    • Judy75201 says:

      “A handful of large donations” means contributions from a lobby/corporation/PAC.

  10. smokeegyrl says:

    ok thanks… Do me a favor Leatherman…can you delete that post.. This is way too early for me.. lol

  11. Stormwatch says:

    I did a little research last night on Zimmerman’s firearm. Seems the Kel-Tec PF-9 is a relatively inexpensive, cheaply made firearm that is well known for it’s considerable recoil. Looking at Zimmerman’s facial injuries, it looks like he has a cut upper lip and two small pinholes identical in size at the tip of his nose. The state also found his blood on his gun. I’m thinking that as the two struggled, Zimmerman brandished his firearm and shot the kid. The gun recoiled and hit Zimmerman in the face, and got his blood on the gun. Then he walked around in the dark and hit his forehead on a tree branch, which would account for the scratch marks. Is that why GZ didn’t wanna go top the ER? Cause he knew that ER docs would figure it out real quick.

    • Nef05 says:

      Probably. I believe he also didn’t want to go to the ER because he was avoiding a tox screen blood draw.

    • towerflower says:

      I agree and if they were in close quarters he wouldn’t been able to lock his elbow to help with the recoil. He would need to have extremely strong wrists to control it with one hand.

      • Lynn says:

        Osterman claims GZ had his elbow directly on the grass when he shot. Is that to make it seem like the recoil idea would be impossible? Osterman’s made-up narrative tries to cover all bases for GZ. Fail.

        • racerrodig says:

          Don’t ya just wish they’d get their act together. Fogen said he “extended my arm” and fired 1 shot.

  12. smokeegyrl says:

    I just realize who Diwata man is that is Ben Kruidbos himself. wow.. He is the one that White is defending but has a Word Press page. Should he even be discussing this case? I have seen his name since last year on social media sites but never connected his name until just now. Does the state know this? Just asking??

  13. MOM to JN

    “Your honor….this evidence that my client took martial classes supports nothing….as with all other classes my client has taken, he failed this one too, thus showing he had no martial arts experience”

  14. Trained Observer says:

    Back to the gym, named for a fertility god/goddess: Is it likely Fogen’s instructor there will be called to testify that he (Fogen) received instruction on wrist locks and other immobilization techniques?
    Is anyone from the gym known to be on the wit list or on the expert list?

    • towerflower says:

      When I was in Arizona, I was told that the local tribes there considered Kokopelli to be a trader.

      Does anyone know if any instructors from the gym are on the State’s witness list?

  15. crazy1946 says:

    Fogen is about to achieve the goal he has stated he wanted to accomplish! The part about wanting to be part of the criminal justice system, he is soon to partake in that very thing! Of course, perhaps it is not the way he envisioned, but still it will be the answer to all his hopes and dreams! Wonder if they will offer him educational opportunities while in their custody? Perhaps he can study to become a judge or even a jail house lawyer, that is if his new boy friend will allow him to be away from him long enough to take those courses…..

    • Two sides to a story says:

      What rich irony!

    • looolooo says:

      Of course fogen’s BF (Ramrod Jenkins) will allow him to study to become a lawyer. So long as he does so whilst bent over their desk.

      • ‘twould “Taking the Bar” a whole new meaning………

      • looolooo says:

        L O L I knew it would be you mmp who’d that my comment to the next hilarious level!

        Are you by any chance related to Bobby “The Pit Bull” Slayton? You’ve definately got some of his ‘off the cuff’ one-liners in your veins.

        Never change mmp. Love ya.

        HOODIES UP

  16. LLMPapa says:

    Counselor, while we’ve got this little dialogue going, let me be sure I’m clear on something..

    Your 28 yo 204 lb client, who trained at “the most complete fight gym in the world” says the SAME 17 yo 158# kid, who tells of HIS ass getting beat in this text message….

    is the one who beat YOUR CLIENT to a point of mortal fear for his LIFE?

    • Trained Observer says:

      Judy — Maybe O’Mara can show us his shimmy.

    • Probably the only time in many years that Mark O’Mara has refused to comment.

      Stutzman was the interviewer

      Could this mean that O’Mara is unhappy with her?

      • Trained Observer says:

        Maybe she broke an embargo he’d negotiated with her on info in the story that got posted by the web editor and then abruptly pulled down? Things have spun out of control ever since …
        and now next September’s victory lap as a dancing star looks in peril.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        She’s been his dance partner for nigh on 14 months– how very strange.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Did his media pipeline change?

  17. elcymoo says:

    June 5, 2013 6:45 AM
    George Zimmerman Trial: Zimmerman’s brother denounces findings of state audio expert as “voodoo forensics”

    By Erin Donaghue

    • Trained Observer says:

      elcymoo — Oh, isn’t that clever of joonyar , borrowing a page from Poppy Bush on “voodoo economics.” What a self-important jerk. A year from now when Fogen has long gone to the slammer, he’ll be looking around for the cameras and they won’t be there … duh.

    • lurker says:

      From the article:

      “Robert Zimmerman, however, said his family doesn’t believe the prosecution can meet its burden in proving his brother was not defending himself at the time he killed Trayvon Martin.

      “”I think we’re optimistic in the sense that we have no doubt George will be acquitted,” Zimmerman said. “We’re concerned that a trial validates an improper charge and we do not waver from our position that we’ve consistently maintained – that George is innocent and acted in self -defense.””

      This is a family well-immersed in denial. And I don’t think that they got there overnight. I don’t see the allegations of George abusing his cousin as being particularly relevant to this trial, but they do point to a family that is very likely a steaming pressure cooker of dysfunction.

  18. LLMPapa says:

    Scuse me Counselor….Thanks for the two new “Grinnin George” pics in your “Discovery”. You’ve proven that old saying.

    They’ll rent the gown….but you gotta EARN the tassel…..

    Got any more?

    • Rachael says:

      That one made me cry.

    • Judy75201 says:

      It is beyond creepy how he grins like he DID just graduate. *shudder*

    • Trained Observer says:

      “They’ll rent the gown….but you gotta EARN the tassel…..” LLMPapa

      Fogen now can focus on earning his tassel in “surviving life in the pen.”

      For a coward like him, he’ll likely flunk that curriculum, too.

  19. dianetrotter says:

    This white guy has some excellent questions for GZ – 50 to be exact. I don’t know if this has been posted before but this guy is breaking it down.

    • aussie says:

      That is Trent… Stateoftheinternet. Did a lot of early work on the security videos at the clubhouse. Has taken a lot of extra video in the area himself, and always films and posts up the court appearances.

      Usually he’s a bit putty mouth, but his heart is definitely in the right place. His videos are worth watching but keep the volume down on the commentary.

    • Trained Observer says:

      diane — Trent can be addictive. I prefer watching hearings (and likely the upcoming trial) without commentary. But for the second run-through, his to-the-point comments can be priceless. Best absorbed with a chilled beverage and feet propped up.

  20. aussie says:

    Everything GZ did he said Trayvon did.

    Right down to the MMA, eh?

    Did JohnW6 maybe go to the same gym? or had talked with GZ about it? is that where he got the MMA idea from?

    What a KNOCK OUT for the defense. I wonder how the tree slum is taking it?

    • SearchingMind says:

      The Professor said something a while ago I am hoping will turn out to be fact: W#6 is the person GZ called (to plant the MMAstuff in his head) right before the police arrived at the crime scene.

  21. dianetrotter says:

    Maybe there was someone doing MMA that night – George!

  22. HLNtv- Should Zimmerman Have Been Arrested Earlier?

  23. HLNtv – Who Is Trayvon Martin’s Girlfriend?

    • Lynn says:

      Around 1:29 it shows the gun and the shadow from the trigger. Come on…how can you not see the exact imprint from the back of Fogen’s noggin! Til I die I will believe he whacked his head to cause those tiny cuts which bled down towards his goatee. No grass touched the back of his head. Not to mention concrete, too!

  24. LLMPapa says:

    More proof of “thuggery” from Counselor O’Mara….

  25. LLMPapa says:

    A kid and his “ol boi”….

    Those text messages are brutal, O’Mara…..

  26. towerflower says:

    Love, Love, Love, it LLMPapa! I also knew that he had to have some sort of training. He was just into the wannabe cop mode.

  27. pat deadder says:

    Did omara know about fogen training there.God I hope not.This is great.I was a little upset from the other post but I can’t believe how LLMP can do what he does and you all can add to the information.It’s people like you who make the U.S.of A a great country.The odds of me breaking the law are slim to none but if I was ever arrested I would beg Mr Leatherman to represent me.If not him Crane-Station even though she is not a lawyer if I lost I would laugh myself silly on the way to jail.BDLR came through.Hope his daughter had a wonderful wedding.

  28. Unabogie says:

    And interesting tidbit:

    You can go to Google Maps and search for “Trayvon Martin”. Then choose search nearby and choose “gym”. Then you can see that there are something like 15 fitness gyms near Twin Trees.,-81.315994&spn=0.133592,0.220757&sll=28.820312,-81.33419&sspn=0.133554,0.220757&near=Shooting+of+Trayvon+Martin&geocode=FchbtwEdkP0m-yktXHyxmRLniDHH-mCKTsGnsA&hq=gym&hnear=Shooting+of+Trayvon+Martin&t=m&z=12

    But the gym he DID go to, the one that specializes in MMA fighting, the one where they train you in “submission grappling”, that one is a full 12 miles away. If that’s where he chose to train instead of the myriad places around the corner from his home, then is there any doubt he was there to learn to fight?

  29. Who says:

    Oh, I love that video. Thank you LLM Papa. That one really made me smile.

  30. Leisa says:

    Thank you for the videos. What a wonderful picture of Trayvon on the ride at Bush Gardens. He had a truly beautiful smile. That is how I choose to remember him. Thanks again folks!

  31. ay2z says:

    Was all this fight training God’s plan for fogen too?

    This is Xena’s “God’s Plan for Zimmerman”

  32. Unabogie says:

    Here is the website of the gym that George trained at:

    I can only imagine what the Zidiots would be saying if it came out that Trayvon Martin had trained at “The Most Complete Fight Gym in the World!”

    Notice that one of the skills they teach there is “submission grappling”.

    • Shari says:

      This is making me sick to my stomach. This is an adult, a police academy reject, a trained fighter, armed, poor Trayvon. What an awful way to leave this Earth. Fogen is breathing stolen air.

      • Unabogie says:

        Let’s not forget that it was just last week that cretins like Jack Cashill were crowing that Trayvon had *taken a video* of a fight, and that this was enough to show how violent he was. And the text messages which talked of fighting showed how he was a “trained fighter”, even though there was zero context. No, we must always assume the worst about the murder victim. Well now we have evidence that good old George was *actually a trained fighter”. And unlike a video of someone else doing something, we’ll have testimony that George trained in exactly the kind of fighting he claimed to lose to a kid whom he outweighed by 50 pounds. And that in 40 seconds he was so overpowered that he had to shoot to save his own life.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        “Fogen is breathing stolen air.”

        With any luck, he’ll be breathing the rare prison air by mid-July.

        • Shari says:

          Let me rephrase. He is NOT a police academy reject. To my knowledge he couldn’t pass the psych eval. He was never accepted.

          I just hope at some point these Fogen supporters would admit they are wrong and apologize to Sybrina and Tracy. I don’t know how they are doing it. During the trial their child’s dead body will be shown.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      • Rachael says:

        Unabogie – you say good old George was *actually a trained fighter”.

        Seems like GZ is everything Trayvon was NOT yet “they” say is is – GZ was a gang memeber, with gang tatts, he has a hx of violence, he even takes his words and motions of that night and say they were Travon’s.

        He is disgusting.

  33. Leisa says:

    OMG! Tit for tat is wonderful!

  34. Shari says:

    follow. this man will soon be in prison.

  35. ic2fools says:

    Great work Papa, we truly appreciate you.

  36. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Here is BLDR page = 17th discovery:

    Click to access STATES-17TH-REDACTED-DISCOVERY-pdf.pdf

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Notice the phone records listed under “K.”

    • ic2fools says:

      @YAHTC State has Racist Robbie phone records and data from 2/26 and Shellies’ too.


      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Yes, they do.

      • Shari says:

        AC said she had all her ducks in a row. She will not be Jeff Ashton Jr. The world is watching…

      • Rachael says:

        Bernie, I LOVE YOU – MARRY ME!!!!

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Do you think that Shellie’s data from phone 2/26 has anything to do with her taking the 5th?

      • ay2z says:

        curiouser and curiouser

        • ic2fools says:

          All their dirt has swept from under the proverbial rug. Got me thinking Racist Robbies’ motives were more self serving to save his ownself. IC more charges and co-conspirators in Trayvons’ murder.

      • Rachael says:

        And if Bernie won’t, maybe LLMPapa will!

      • Dave says:

        Why Robbie Jr. and not Robt. Sr. or the sister? Wouldn’t you think it more likely that the killer would have called/been called by one or both of them?

        • ic2fools says:

          hmmmm, well Dave, if you have been keeping up with evidence presented then you would know the answer to that question.

          Why don’t you share with us why you think Fogen father and sister would have called/been called by Fogen minutes before the 911 call, during the murder or directly afterwards?

          Please understand the form of your question is a bit odd after all the information that has been released pertaining to phone records and their relation to the time frame of the murder.

      • Dave says:

        a. George and Robt. Jr. were apparently on less than friendly terms

        b. Robt. Sr. would be the most logical one to call when he is in a legal jam.

        c. The sister (whose name I can’t remember offhand) lived in the next complex over and is suspected by some people of having alerted her brother to Trayvon’s presence.

      • ic2fools says:

        Please accept my apology for my brash reply to your question and thank you for your reply.

        Very true Fogen and his brother are known to have been estranged.

        He did call his father who IIRC was there that night and met with Wolfinger. He revealed that in an interview with a lady on Anderson Cooper 360.

        Fogens’ sisters’ name is Gracie.

  37. ic2fools says:

    Submission grappling definition: Grappling is combination of getting position on the ground and ultimately looking for a submission. Wrestling is simply just trying to gain the top position and keep it in order to subdue your opponent

    Which witness said ‘it was like they were wrestling’ (IIRC it was john?)

    these look familiar?:::

    this is called Leg Cruicifix

    this is called Mount Escape

    all i know this all these looks like what Fogen described

    Fogen described these positions in his stories, now we know where he got that shyte from he used in his lies.

    Wonder if he shared with OM about his fighting skills? I highly doubt OM asked Fogen if he had any fighting skills. The last thought on OMs’ mind. I know Bernie blindsided OM again, like he did at the Bond Hearing….

    • bettykath says:

      I think BDLR was holding the fighting stuff for rebuttal. Releasing it as part of discovery was in response to MOM’s inaccurate characterization of the bike video and denial that he had for months. MOM needs to stfu.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      So THAT’s why ole Z kept talking about “mounting” and being mounted. He’s a MMA hound!

      • Trained Observer says:

        And to think we thought the murdering fat creep was into taxidermy!

      • ic2fools says:

        MmmmmHuh. Using term s he is very familiar with. and has experienced with. Don’t forget his buddie Witness John statements. Mr. De La Rionda is about to have a field day. Explains OMs; attempts to shutdown BDLR. HA, not a chance….

      • Two sides to a story says:

        LOLOL! Taxidermy. I thought it was . . . never mind.

        • cielo62 says:

          Two Sides- yeah, I went there,too. Sounds like a personal fetish about being “mounted”. Oh well. He’ll have to worry about that in his bear future.


      • Cercando Luce says:

        LMHO.. 2sides, DON’T go there.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Cecercando – ugh, yes, let’s not!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        *Cercando* Just the thought makes me mispell your name!

  38. Michael Stewart says:

    Well you’ve been on a fast train and it’s going off the rails
    And you can’t come back can’t come back together again
    And you start breaking down
    In the pouring rain
    Well you’ve been on a fast train

  39. Leisa says:

    Idiots of the world have given over $46,000 to Fogen since May 29th. SMDH

    • Judy75201 says:

      That is a pittance compared to what was given before. Fogen’s a lost cause and most people know that.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Think of all the good they could have done with 400k.

    • groans says:

      I’d guess mostly one idiot – the killer’s family. Go ahead Zimmerman clan, throw your life savings where your foul mouths have been spouting!

    • pat deadder says:

      So Leisa 1000 people giving 50 dollars each.So 1000 crazy people out of 330 million is not so bad.Hope my math is right.No coffee yet .

  40. RobertSF says:

    Thanks in great part to LLMPapa’s videos, and availing myself of what’s known about the case, I’ve come up with this theory of the shooting.

    At 7:11:48, Zimmerman gets out of his car and runs for about 20 seconds, covering the 167 feet between his car and the T at about 5.7 mph, a jogging pace. He then continues walking to Retreat View Circle, which is a about 100 feet away from the T.

    Meanwhile, Martin has arrived outside his father’s girlfriend’s condo. He doesn’t go in but stays outside chatting with Dee Dee. He probably starts to think he was imagining that a strange man had stared and followed him in his car. After all, nobody knows him out here.

    Zimmerman walks South on Retreat View Circle toward the back entrance. It’s about 485 feet, plus the 100 from the T to the street, so at a brisk walking pace of 4 mph, it takes him about 100 seconds. That, plus the 20 it took to get from his car to the T, adds up to 2 minutes, so it’s now 7:13:48, just a few seconds after he ended the call to Non Emergency at 7:13:40. Putting his phone back in his pocket, he decides to return to his car by going North on the footpath between the condos.

    As Dee Dee relates, “a couple of minutes later,” Martin again sees the man that had been following him. Trying to escape him a second time, Martin walks, jogs, or runs North, towards the T, with Zimmerman in pursuit. About 40 feet from the T, Martin stops, turns, and asks why Zimmerman is following him. Zimmerman runs up and yells, “What are you doing here?”

    The first 911 call came in at 7:16:11. If we say that it took that first caller about 45 seconds to hear the yelling and get through to 911, that means the altercation started at 7:15:26.

    From 7:13:48, when Zimmerman arrived at the back entrance, to 7:15:26, the time is 98 seconds. The distance from Retreat View Circle at the back entrance, through the footpath and to 40 feet from the T is about 560 feet. Covering 560 feet in 98 seconds requires moving at about 4 mph, a brisk walking pace, as I noted above.

    I hope you agree this timeline works much better than anything Zimmerman has tried to tell us. What happened in the altercation?

    Zimmerman seized Martin by the front of his clothing and tried to force him to the ground, but Martin resisted. This is where he drops his phone and says, “Get off… get off!” The two move a few feet North, since Zimmerman is pushing and Martin is trying to get away.

    Then Zimmerman drops his flashlight to free up his hand and draw his gun. He probably intends to intimidate Martin. This is where the screams go from “Help me!” to a horrified, “Noooo! Noooo!” and “I’m begging you!” But Martin still won’t go down, and in a moment of righteous exasperation, Zimmerman shoots Martin.

    That’s why the holes in the clothing don’t align with the wound. It’s not so much that the clothing was at a distance from the body. It was also being pulled down.

    Since Zimmerman is left-handed, he seized Martin with his left hand. So instead of shooting with both hands steadying the weapon, as he did on the shooting range, he shot single-handedly with his weaker hand. The gun he used is supposed to have the strongest recoil of all 9 mm guns. The recoil sent his fist, still holding the gun, smack into his own nose. The gun created the small bump and abrasion the photographs show between his eyes, as well as made two small cuts in the tip of his nose. It was those cuts that produced the blood we see in the color photograph of him staring from the back of the police car.

    He could have obtained the two small cuts on the back of his head by running in the dark into a low hanging tree branch or a sign.

    And that’s how I think things unfolded that night.

    • boyd says:

      well everything Zimmerman says is to be doubted. so who knows

    • 1 initial disagreement… GZ pulls out his gun. In GZ’s training, you can be sure that he’s seen a few of these. He dropped his flashlight to grab TM and that’s when TM recognized the gun because he couldn’t see it with the flashlight in his face. Hence “why are you following me”? before he saw the gun.

      • oops, can’t edit. If you listen to the audio you can hear GZ rack his weapon at 2:40 or you can listen to this one which confirms to me that he had his gun out and using a flashlight technique to find and confront TM.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Fogen may have felt very safe in brandishing his weapon on a dark and rainy night.

      • Or better yet really highlights the problem. No one is going to re-holster his weapon with a round in the chamber and the safety off.

      • RobertSF says:

        Oh, I see… that was an interesting video about flashlight techniques. I knew nothing about them. The reason I thought Zimmerman drew his gun after grabbing Martin is that (unless I’m mistaken) Martin’s phone was found first, followed by the Zimmerman’s flashlight, followed by Martin’s body. I didn’t know how else to account for that.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        your theory sounds good, leroy.

        i’d bet money though that the gun was not racked while the defendant was in pursuit, on account of how it was loaded (plenty of previous conversations here regarding this). also, there is no ‘safety’ on a kel tek 9mm, it relies on trigger pressure as a ‘safety’ and is fairly lame at that. it’s a cheap ass gun that no decent gun owner would want to associate with.

      • groans says:

        @ Leroy – great educational links, and I don’t think that you and RobertSF are all that far apart on your theories.

        I’ve always believed that the killer had his gun drawn long before he used it – mostly because he has demonstrated to me from 2/26/12 forward what an incredibly huge COWARD he is. But by either your theory or RobertSF’s, the killer drops his flashlight only when, and because, he needs to free his left hand for other purposes (i.e., grabbing Trayvon).

        We’ve had many debates here about whether (1) the killer “chambered” his gun during his NEN call, and (2) the killer’s facial boo-boo was caused by the recoil of his own damn gun. Despite vehement contrary arguments, I remain inclined to believe that both are true. (Sorry, Dave, wherever you are!)

        Indeed, listening again to the portion of the NEN call that you linked, the “chambering” sound is followed closely by three or so tapping sounds – which the killer claimed was him trying to get his flashlight to work. But now I’m thinking that both those sounds are related. That is, he first chambered a round and then was adding another round to his magazine – which maybe required some jiggling/tapping to remove or replace the magazine, hence the tapping sounds.

        My sense of this killer tells me that he’s not only paranoid, but also a coward. And that leads me to believe that he wouldn’t go further in pursuing Trayvon without his weapon unholstered and ready to fire off as many rounds as he might possibly want to fire – which is why he wanted to be sure to add another bullet to his magazine after he chambered one round. And I think we hear him doing that during his NEN call.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          groans —

          you say that you believe you hear the kel tek 9 mm racking during the NEN call. i assume you are referring to the sound which most people claim to hear once gz is out of the truck.

          it is established, clearly via discovery, that gz had a full magazine of 7 hollow points, plus 1 spent casing with bullet fragments in the victim’s body. it is also established that gz carried a tactical flashlight.

          in order for that that sound to be a gun racking to add the 8th bullet, gz would have to exit the truck with gun, flashlight and 1 extra bullet. he would then, in bad light and on the run, rack the gun, remove the magazine, find his spare bullet and insert it in the magazine, finally reinsert the magazine.

          i don’t mean to belabor this point and i respect your posts. could you kindly point out how that scenario would be accomplished and how it makes sense for someone with considerable target practice? why would anyone (and i know gz is the exception to most rules) jump out of his truck with a single bullet to have to mess around with in the dark?

        • fauxmccoy says:


          also, to add to the equation — the chambering of the 8th bullet requires 2 hands and gz was also holding a cell phone.

          i just cannot see how this can be accomplished and it is far from loading SOP. i’d love to hear someone explain it clearly, otherwise i must discount it as a theory.

      • tonydphotog says:

        I can just see him running around the buildings, gun in front of him moving side to side (like on TV), ready to shoot if necessary.

        As much as he lacks intelligence, I believe he’s not stupid enough to holster “The Gun” while it’s fully loaded.

        And, I agree with the blood on his nose. I’m leaning towards the gun’s “sight” (I guess that’s the name of the part) hitting the tip of his nose. It looks like it has 2 sharp edges that could have caused the 2 cuts on the tip of his nose.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I agree with Fauxie. I have a tactical flashlight that has to be hit, jarred and jiggled to get it to light up. It sounds just like the sound on the NEN recording as the batteries move inside it – they’re not held completely immobile inside. I think Fogen was telling the truth on that one. I think he probably pulled his gun a little later – perhaps when he spotted Trayvon and herded him back toward the T, probably thinking he could hold him until police arrived. THere seems to be a back and forth exchange and Trayvon sounds increasingly panicked.

      • groans says:

        @ fauxmccoy,

        Regarding the racking sound, I find this quite persuasive:

        I’ve been uncertain about the subsequent “tapping” sounds, but definitely haven’t bought the getting-the-flashlight-to-work story. And tonight I noticed the proximity of the sounds and thought about how they might be related.

        I don’t yet share your assumptions about “bad light and on the run,” or about exiting the truck with just one extra bullet (particularly if someone else was with him at that point), though I wouldn’t put it past the killer either (e.g., maybe grabbing an extra bullet was part of some “action plan” in his “fighting-trained” mind).

        And, like I said, I believe that the killer is a cowardly sort and only a wanna-be hero. I would not be surprised if he is averse to sitting his butt – on a regular basis – down on top of a fully loaded and racked gun that has no safety latch.

        And I believe the gun recoil caused his nose boo-boo (sorry, Dave, wherever you are) because of everything I’ve read about that gun and his single-handed shot, which was not in a “target practice” setting.

        I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything. But at the same time, I haven’t heard anything else convincing about those sounds yet, either.

        Hope I’ve covered your questions. Goodnight!

        • fauxmccoy says:


          ok, let’s disregard the lighting issue. how does a person juggle a cell phone (while either standing or moving), flashlight, gun and a spare bullet? racking a semi-auto with one hand is possible, but awkward at best. both hands would be needed to rack the gun, remove magazine, insert spare bullet, then reinsert magazine. how was the phone held? where was the flashlight? why would anyone do such a thing, it would certainly render them vulnerable in a potentially dangerous situation. i just don’t see it as physically feasible or practical.

          the video you provided compares sound, but does not take into account the physical actions required to accomplish the gun manipulations while on the phone and holding a flashlight. it makes no sense for anyone who handles firearms regularly. as a rule, the gun is holstered with the extra round already chambered. this is a very common method of carrying because it makes racking an unnecessary, time consuming step. if the carrier thinks extra bullets are necessary, they simply pack a second full magazine, not a lone bullet.

          i realize that you are not trying to convince anyone and it is likely that i am, based on my experience with firearms. while it is certainly fine that we don’t agree, i guess i would like to be convinced with more than just a coincidence of sound waves.

      • groans says:

        @ TwoSides, re:

        “I have a tactical flashlight that has to be hit, jarred and jiggled to get it to light up. It sounds just like the sound on the NEN recording as the batteries move inside it – they’re not held completely immobile inside. I think Fogen was telling the truth on that one.”

        IIRC, Serino had no trouble getting the killer’s flashlight to light up, and he didn’t seem to think the killer was telling the truth on that one. Am I wrong about that? Thanks.

        • fauxmccoy says:


          serino was able to get the flashlight to work, but did note that they can be finicky and need to be banged around a bit at times.

      • Lynn says:

        I have gone over this sound many times and haven’t settled into the perfect scenario yet. Racking, banging, or knocking all sound plausible. Fauxy got me thinking about logistics which led to youtube browsing. Listen to the sounds of the magazine being slid into the Kel-Tec.

        Could he have grabbed the gun (having one already in the chamber) then inserted a full magazine while walking?
        One can hold their phone temporarily with the shoulder (like we did with the bigger phones of yesteryear) long enough to insert the clip. It seems to go in very easy on the video. Wouldn’t need to stop walking or have light to accomplish this task.
        Also, the flashlight has a loop handle on it. He could have had it dangling until he needed it.

        I believe he already had his weapon drawn. When those first verbal exchanges that DD heard happened, I believe Fogen had that flashlight beaming in TM’s eyes and he swatted at it to get it out of his face. I think this is where that 1/8 x 1/4 abrasion came from. The flashlight that Fogen used is a Rocky brand tactical flashlight and it has a design on the tip that is sharp enough to do some minor harm if TM tried to push it away. I’ll included a video showing it after this comment so as not to get flagged.

        • fauxmccoy says:


          thanks for your thoughtful response. i have tried to envision many scenarios in which that sound could be racking — certainly a flashlight could be stashed in a back pocket and however awkward it is a cellphone could be held in the crook of the neck. both hands would be needed to manipulate the gun and i just cannot imagine anyone with extensive experience (which i do believe gz had with osterman’s help) choosing to do this outside the comfort of his home or vehicle. i am willing to be persuaded, of course.

          the only fault i can find in your scenario is that if a bullet is already in the chamber, then there is no need to rack the gun, it has already been done. this fact takes us back to step 1 as far as i can tell.

          it really is quite common to carry a semi-auto with a full magazine plus one in the chamber. the reason for doing so is to make it usable immediately, without having to rack it. if this had been a real self defense situation, no perp is going to stand still while you unholster a gun, rack it using both hands and then aim.

          no matter how many scenarios i look at, gz would still have to exit his vehicle (and he did so quickly) holding onto his phone, flashlight and gun — i just cannot see adding a lone, stray bullet into that mix. where does he keep this lone bullet? on his person? somewhere in the vehicle? it makes no sense when the common loading procedure is a full magazine plus one.

      • Lynn says:

        I don’t believe he racked the gun on the run. Maybe he had the gun racked with one in the chamber in his holster. Upon exiting his truck, he grabbed a magazine and loaded it while walking. When he was arrested he had a knife, a gun and spare magazine clips in his rental car. Maybe the same could have been said for that night. The video around 0:45 or so gives the noise that sliding a magazine in makes. This is what I’m curious about. Just trying to give that noise a face. lol

        • fauxmccoy says:


          ahhhhh, got it. i won’t even pretend to know what that noise is, i just have a darned good idea as to what it is not. i have come to accept that there will be many things that we will never know about those few minutes because the only survivor is beyond his credit limit.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      All that BDLR has to do is use the solid evidence to prove that gz’s version is false.

      Simple as that.

      • RobertSF says:

        I keep hearing from Zimmerman supporters that BDLR will have to prove that Zimmerman did not act in self-defense. And they always say “beyond reasonable doubt” as if that means to prove scientifically.

        An example I use is, if you live with a roommate, and you get up one morning and your OJ is gone, and the empty container is in the trash, you can’t prove that he took it, but you believe he did beyond reasonable doubt.

        I hope proving Zimmerman’s version to be impossible will be enough.

        • Shari says:

          I’m not a lawyer but some people are confused. Beyond a REASONABLE doubt doesn’t mean the jury must look for ANY SCINTILLA of a doubt. Unless the state is in a position to video record every crime there may be some details we will never know.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:


        What do you think of LLMPapa’s video along with gz’s saying “yes” when asked if he had used wrist control?

      • pat deadder says:

        I’m not understanding if it was a cross draw the handle or whatever you call that part of the gun would have to be facing toward the front so how did he draw it with his right hand.Wouldn’t it be backwards.

      • Jun says:

        I believe you are incorrect

        The state has to prove murder 2 beyond a reasonable doubt

        Fogen is using an affirmative defense, therefore, he has to present some evidence of self defense, otherwise he gets no self defense instruction from the jury and even then, they may not buy the Fogen story

        Affirmative defense in Florida states that the defendant has to provide evidence for the affirmative defense

        Did Fogen kill with a depraved mindset disregarding human life?

        If Fogen did, which I believe to be so, it is obviously not self defense

        Besides that Fogen has nothing to present except his own statements and Omara can’t present them for him and the state even went to limine that Omara can’t attempt to introduce Fogen’s statements

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Was it Whonoze who did a detailed video map of this scenario – Fogen making his way toward the back gate on a different route and chasing Trayvon back toward the T?

      It wouldn’t surprise me a bit since Fogen has tried so hard to portray himself as looking for an address. I’ve always thought Trayvon lingered somewhere on the phone simply because he;s just a kid distracted by his phone and because he felt safe once he was out of sight. I don’t think he expected to Fogen to get out of the truck and follow once he was out of sight.

      • RobertSF says:

        Yes, I don’t think Martin saw Zimmerman get out of his truck up by the T. I haven’t seen a detailed map of this scenario, but I’m sure not going to claim my version is original. Lots of people must have come to the same conclusion.

    • Yes!! Yes!!!! I agree, I have the strongest feeling that you are exactly right!

      It would answer to Dee Dee saying that Trayvon was at or near his Father’s door.

      It would make total sense as to why Trayvon lay dead, murdered, (some 40 feet is it?) north of his Father’s house.

      The timing fits doesn’t it?

      Was there a witness that saw zimmerass walking/running down the street toward the back entance that night?

      Hoodies Up!!!!

    • abbyj1 says:

      Robert, Very nice to see you over here on this great site.

    • lurker says:

      That is just about identical to the way I worked it out, once I could free my mind of the Zimmerman narrative and rely strictly on the evidence. It makes sense that Z. would head down Retreat View Circle since he believed that Trayvon was headed for the back gate. Even if Trayvon had gone by way the dog walk this would be the best path by which to intercept him. A plunge through the bushes (which seem to be taller down between the condos than the small shrubs up closer to the t) given him some facial abrasions. The laceration on the back of the head could have come from running into a sign, a gutter, or against an embedded sprinkler in the grass. Not consistent with repeated banging against cement–which would have produced profound bruising, swelling, abrasions and perhaps an avulsion, or tearing of the skin–not the neat lac, or cut, that we see.

      • RobertSF says:

        I hope that’s the prosecution’s theory too, and that it is able to present it convincingly to the jury.

  41. boyd says:

    Next MOM will say this certainly does not make my client look violent.

  42. Two sides to a story says:

    Lots of great videos sailing around today.

    Here’s one of OM playing both sides to the middle as they say. Also followed by some thoughtful BET not-to-be-missed videos.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Great link, Two sides!

    • I thought M’OM was sincere, save for the false tear. I heard him say before about the way minorities are treated. I don’t think he’s an ethical lawyer but I do believe as a defense lawyer he has seen a fair share of unfair cases.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I think he’s probably sincere to a point, but he’s defending a questionable client so he sends out mixed signals. Plenty of Fogen supporters say the same thing.

      • texad says:

        @ Leroy Eugene Hudson

        I’d also like to believe that M O’M is sincere.

        I’d also like to believe that the tooth fairy is the one who waits until little Susie and Johnny are asleep and quietly places $$ under their pillow when they loose their first set of teeth. But I don’t believe that either.

        The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.
        M O’M has done nothing to show that he is even trying to understand the potential racial powderkeg he sits on. As a matter of fact, he encourages the misunderstandings between races-and seems to actually enjoy it.

        I have seen nothing ethical in anything that he has done so far in this 2nd degree murder case. I am not talking about words, but actions. I worked in the court system for many, many years and I have known attorneys who represented despicable clients. And they many times had to stretch the truth a little in an attempt to show their clients had some degree of honor. But M O’M has crossed too many lines for me to think anything other than he knows exactly what he is doing.

        So M O’M’s statement regarding race-on it’s face-was dishonest. And the fake tear was just his “tell”. If nothing else, the begging site donors should have clued him in as to what and who he was working with in this case.

        The following video shows where some people still are as relates to race. Cheerios had to disable the comments on this cute little online commericial because of the racist and hateful comments that it generated because of the interracial relationship between husband and wife. In the year 2013.

      • groans says:

        @ texad – What an adorable ad, and what a pitiful history you tell us about it. Thanks for sharing. SMH.

    • ay2z says:

      Great, Two sides, I was looking for that the other day, thanks for bringing it up!

    • lurker says:

      Interesting how he laughs when he wipes the false tear. Psych-types might have a field day.

      But his words are interesting:
      “It has caused me to really think back through my philosophy. I don’t think that I ever actively thought, “I’m not Black and I can’t look at it through those eyes.” I always thought I was sensitive to it. I always thought I was aware of it, but this has really brought to the forefront the depth of concern that the Black community has with how they are being treated. And, I guess I didn’t realize that we had so far to go.”

      He thought he was sensitive to “it.” And then he goes on to talk about the depth of concern in the Black community–not any acknowledgement of possible exclusion of blacks from justice. He leaves the door wide open, without actually saying it, for an interpretation that the problem is that Blacks are hyper-concerned (rather uppity way of saying that they are playing the race card)–rather than an acknowledgment that there are actually valid concerns.

  43. For George:

    Straight-up Gold, LLMPapa

    • O’Mara must be just sick. This is devastating, on the eve of trial.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:


      • Two sides to a story says:

        Richly deserved.

      • ay2z says:

        But you know what is great, all that work to demonize Trayvon, a young growing kid who was as even O’Mara said in one of today’s article quotes, that Trayvon was just a regular kid.

        Couldn’t have said it better. All that character foundation he laid, has worked to the emphasis and importance of George Zimmerman’s fighting interests, for another reason. Say, what about Doris Singleton talking about what fogen said to her, about his lack of ‘presence’ to gain respect? Sorta tells a little motive story for needing to learn to kick and shoot from the best.

      • Girlp says:


      • bettykath says:

        Crane-Station, If you’re asking about the Singleton-fogen conversation about “did she ever have to shoot someone”, it’s at the beginning of the video where he’s waiting to take the voice stress test.

      • amsterdam1234 says:


        Here is the clip. I always thought this statement could be the foundation of the prosecution’s case GZ was detaining Trayvon.

      • lurker says:

        It was a bit of a suck-up to Singleton as well.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @T.S., AMEN to that!

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Crane-Station, this just goes to show that GOD ALMIGHTY, is in control.

      • Malisha says:

        O’Mara only called Trayvon a “regular kid” because he was objecting, to hear him tell it, to people putting Trayvon on a PEDESTAL!!


        His client put Trayvon Martin in the morgue.

        How PERFECT do you have to be to be allowed to continue living on any given Sunday evening, huh, counselor?

        Eat DIRT, you — nevermind. Just eat dirt. You’ve been kicking enough of it in everyone else’s face for long enough.

        • There are so many ways to complete that sentence!

        • Shari says:

          The nerve! No one placed that young man on any pedastool.

          There was a Zidiot on Washington Post who said, “We were lied to. Al Sharpton said Trayvon was an innocent kid going to get candy.” Well that is exactly what he was doing. He was committing NO crime, and PRIVATE CITIZEN Fogen had no right to deem Trayvon to be a suspect. How dare he? He isn’t an officer of the law, where does he get off calling another American citizen a suspect?

          I have listened to Sybrina many times say that Trayvon was HER BABY.

          All we have been saying is that Fogen had NO right to BOTHER Trayvon in any way. Anyone who defends Fogen’s right to target, follow, and murder a child is just plain wrong.

          • Shari said,

            He isn’t an officer of the law

            Even if the defendant had been a police officer, he would not have had any authority to detain Trayvon for any length of time because Trayvon was not doing anything suspicious.

          • Shari says:

            Mr. Leatherman you are correct. Profiling/stop and frisk policies performed by law enforcement are wrong as well.

            I was just ranting- Fogen wanted so badly to BE a cop that he began performing what he thought were cop duties. I wonder where he got these ideas about police work from? Bill Lee did blame Trayvon for his death.

  44. tharealkeisha says:


  45. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Well, the evidence is filling up BDLR’s sails.

    ….and is he ever gonna clean up against gz’s river of lies!!

  46. Soulcatcher says:


  47. Judy75201 says:

    Haha. Hahaha. Hahahahahahahahahah. Dang, can’t stop laughing.

  48. ay2z says:

    Serino: “you had him in wrist control?’
    GZ Yeh

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      • Girlp says:

        GZ could have done this if Trayvon pushed away from him to run poor Trayvon would have been in a lot of pain. Also, means GZ was not about to pass out (which we already know is a lie), he had to be aware, if he’s passing out how would he be able to do a wrist lock. In addition, sounds like first degree to me he was no longer in danger; he moved his left hand out of the way then AIMED and FIRED per GZ…BTW my brother use to teach martial arts he showed me the wrist lock about 20 years ago but I’d forgotten about it.

      • groans says:

        Wow – woo-hoo!! “Submission Grappling” training available for the likes of this killer – two hour sessions, every Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday night – at Kokopelli’s Gym!!

        “The Most Complete FIGHT GYM in the World!”

        The killer has merely been projecting once again, trying to portray his high school child VICTIM as some sort of trained, experienced fighter.

        SCUM of the Earth does not even BEGIN to describe this cold-blooded killer, and … I venture to add on the eve of his trial … MURDERER!

      • Rachael says:

        Of course he probably doesn’t know about submission grappling – you know, just like he didn’t know about SYG.

    • Seriously? Wow. If you have control of somebody, that is not self defense in any way, shape or form.

      • racerrodig says:

        The SYG and self defense laws state one must exercise every avenue of escape before you kill anyone, and I’d say, in fact, I know the state is using the wrist control and I was on him lines if he even mentions self defense or SYG….

        What I’m saying is, it sure sucks to be Fogen about now.

      • ladystclaire says:

        NO, it’s not and, I feel that he should have been slapped in his fat pig looking face, with first degree murder. this is so unbelievable to say the least. he did not have to shoot that kid and he knows it.

        Those who were present, when all of this went down, they IMO have the blood of this kid on their hands just like Fogen. how could they know what the truth in this case is and, just keep their damn mouths shut. this is where W6 got his MMA punching this liar in his face from. these people have no heart at all. this goes for Jenna as well. she knew exactly what was going on outside, while she was on the phone with 911 yet she chooses to lie.

        I believe they were looking right at Trayvon, as he looked at them asking for their help. if they are with holding information that is useful in this case, they should all be charged with OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE!

        • I say this not in defense of anyone…..Just as an observation…

          When the incident went down…..those looking from their windows had no idea who fogen had just murdered…….A kid with Skittles & Iced Tea………

          Wonder if their story changed once they were aware of this?

        • “Those who were present, when all of this went down,”

          I don’t think we’ve heard the last of these phone records.

      • Xena says:

        By GZ’s own words, Trayvon was pinned, unable to retreat, and held by GZ while he aimed and shot Trayvon in the heart.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          In this video he says he had one hand holding Trayvon by the wrist, while with his other hand he drew his weapon and fired. HOWEVER, the evidence shows that Trayvon’s garments were displaced 4 to 5 inches diagonally from his left shoulder when the shot was fired. There is a wrinkle that is pierced by the gunshot, showing that the material was being stretched, in a way and direction that cannot be accounted for, by it being caught between their bodies.
          Thus it had to have been gripped and pulled.

          There is also the matter that there is no angle from gz’s stated position, that allows the shot fired to be taken from that position.

          GZ has made so many statements of things that are not possible, he can have no credibility left and therefore his words may not be taken without supporting proof. In fact, his claims not only conflict with the evidence collected, they also conflict with the eyewitness testimony given. Thus his claims must be dismissed as self serving contrivance, nothing more. Designed in a attempt to escape accountability for the actions he really took.

          The evidence shows that he was under no attack, and that he suffered no injuries at the hands of his victim. Thus the evidence says that he drew his weapon an fired willfully killing a youth who had done nothing to him and who posed no threat at all. The kid was not a criminal, had no experience in fighting or combat, knew no holds, nor other disabling methods, but was helpless and filled with fear and was pleading to be released at the time he was remorselessly killed.

        • Yeah. The “I aimed the gun” part speaks volumes….

    • vickie s. votaw says:

      God Bless You, LLMPapa!

    • racerrodig says:

      I’ll see your Johnny Cash and raise you one Aerosmith…

      Well it’s a train, and I’m insane
      Not really handsome
      We kinda look the same
      It wasn’t pretty
      From Sanford City
      I’m walkin’ down that old fair lane
      It’s the heat, I love meat
      But I just couldn’t tell them so


      I said, Train Kept A Rollin’ all night long
      Train Kept A Rollin’ all night long
      Train Kept A Rollin’ all night long
      Train Kept A Rollin’ all night long
      With a heave, she’s a ho
      But I just couldn’t them so, no, no, no

      Well it’s a train, and I’m insane
      Not really handsome
      We kinda look the same
      It wasn’t pretty
      From Sanford City
      I’m walkin’ down that old fair lane
      It’s the heat, I love meat
      But I just couldn’t tell them so


      Well, get along
      SheLie woman get along
      On your way
      Well, get along
      SheLie woman get along
      On your way
      It’s the heat, she’s a ho
      But I just couldn’t tell her so, no, no, no

      Well, we made a stop in Justice Town
      She musta thought
      I was a real big jerk
      Got off the train, and put her hands up
      Lookin’ so good, I couldn’t let her go
      But I just couldn’t tell her so


      Preach it Rev. Richard

  49. ay2z says:

    Is that Alpha?? Wooof!

  50. ay2z says:

    Already had it up on the youtube links. Thanks for giving this gem place of it’s very own.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Great video, LLMPapa!

    • cielo62 says:

      Yep! Saw it before I headed over here. Awesome as usual. 🙂

    • SearchingMind says:

      Unequal “Fight”

      George Michael Zimmerman
      Sex : grown male
      Age : A 28yrs
      Height : 5′8″
      Weight : 95 kg
      Training : Boxing;
      Mixed Martial Art
      Fighting (MMA);
      Heavy Weight Lifting;
      License : Conceal Carry Weapon;
      Armed : Kel Tec 9mm; fully loaded;
      Activity : “NWM”; stalks his
      victims in the dark,
      in his truck and on
      foot; never
      identifies himself;
      Intent : Capture (and if
      necessary kill)
      these a** holes;
      these effing coons;
      Victimms : African American
      kids and juveniles;

      Trayvon Benjamin Martin
      Sex : male juvenile/boy
      Age : 16yrs and 3 weeks old
      Height : 5′9″
      Weight : 73 kg
      Training : none; smoked occasionally
      Gun license : no;
      Armed : bag of skittles and iced tea;
      Activity : walking home in the
      dark from the store
      while talking to his
      GF on the phone;
      Victims : none; likes to
      make “others feel
      good about
      themselves” ;

      It is apparent why GZ was able to immobilize Trayvon within seconds before executing him. Thanks LLMPapa. You sure know how to use good humor to convey the most sorrowful message: Trayvon Never Stood A Chance.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Bad Lawyer Down!!!

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