Mark O’Mara should be sanctioned by the Court

Thursday, May 30, 2013

Good morning:

Bad character evidence about the victim of a homicide is not admissible in a self-defense case unless the defendant knew it before the encounter that ended with the victim’s death.

In other words, if the defendant did not know that the victim was a violent thug, he cannot introduce evidence that the victim was a violent thug in support of his claim of self-defense.

Mark O’Mara is using the information obtained from Trayvon’s phone in a fruitless attempt to establish that Trayvon was a violent thug. Even if he were successful, the information would still be irrelevant and inadmissible because the defendant did not know Trayvon before he killed him.

O’Mara must know this because he is a lawyer who specializes in criminal law. Since he knows this, we can reasonably conclude that he knows his motion for sanctions against BDLR will be denied.

The question people should be asking is why did he file the motion since he knew it would be denied?

I believe the answer is obvious.

He is using the motion as a vehicle to publicize irrelevant and inadmissible information about Trayvon Martin. He wants the public to believe that Trayvon is a violent thug who deserved to die.

Since he waited to file his motion until after 500 people received a summons for jury duty, we also can tell that he is using his motion for sanctions to convince as many of those 500 people as possible that Trayvon was a violent thug who deserved to die.

Two additional important points that are getting lost amid the hue and cry caused by the release of the information are that:

(1) it does not prove Trayvon was a violent thug, and

(2) it does prove that Mark O’Mara acted in bad faith when he filed the motion for sanctions.

Therefore, Judge Nelson should sanction O’Mara for filing the motion for sanctions in bad faith.


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442 Responses to Mark O’Mara should be sanctioned by the Court

  1. JustMe says:

    I haven’t had time to read through the blogs, so I’m not sure if anyone of you read this article from Stutzman, but, IMO, Mark O’Mara should be disbarred!

    By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel
    10:31 p.m. EDT, May 31, 2013

    Video released today by George Zimmerman’s trial attorneys depicts what they say is Trayvon Martin laughing while he video-records a fight between two homeless men.

    It shows something far different than what defense attorney Mark O’Mara described during a hearing Tuesday.

    Back then, he told Circuit Judge Debra S. Nelson that it was Trayvon making a video-recording of his buddies “beating up a homeless guy.”

    But what the video shows is Trayvon and a friend encountering two homeless men who are fighting over a bicycle. Trayvon moves closer and records the fight and while he does, can be heard laughing.

    Trayvon is the unarmed black 17-year-old that Zimmerman, a Neighborhood Watch volunteer, fatally shot in Sanford Feb. 26, 2012.

    Zimmerman says he acted in self-defense, that the teenager attacked him, knocking him to the ground with a punch that broke his nose then climbed on top and began hammering his head against a sidewalk.

    Prosecutors say Zimmerman profiled the black teenager, assuming he was about to commit a crime, followed and murdered him.

    Zimmerman’s second-degree murder trial is to begin June 10.

    In court Tuesday O’Mara mentioned the video as one of several pieces of evidence he wants to put in front of jurors to show that Trayvon had a history of fighting and an interest in it.

    The judge ruled Tuesday that O’Mara may not talk about fighting during his opening statement but if he convinces her during the trial that it’s relevant and admissible, she would allow it.

    O’Mara has unearthed a good bit of evidence that he says shows that Trayvon took part in organized fights. Last week, he released text messages from Trayvon’s cell phone. In one the Miami Gardens’ teenager wrote that in one fight he got pummeled in in the first round because his opponent got him on the ground.

    Also in court Tuesday he said he had found video of Trayvon refereeing a fight.

    By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel
    10:31 p.m. EDT, May 31, 2013

    Video released today by George Zimmerman’s trial attorneys depicts what they say is Trayvon Martin laughing while he video-records a fight between two homeless men.

    It shows something far different than what defense attorney Mark O’Mara described during a hearing Tuesday.

    Back then, he told Circuit Judge Debra S. Nelson that it was Trayvon making a video-recording of his buddies “beating up a homeless guy.”

    But what the video shows is Trayvon and a friend encountering two homeless men who are fighting over a bicycle. Trayvon moves closer and records the fight and while he does, can be heard laughing.

    Trayvon is the unarmed black 17-year-old that Zimmerman, a Neighborhood Watch volunteer, fatally shot in Sanford Feb. 26, 2012.

    Zimmerman says he acted in self-defense, that the teenager attacked him, knocking him to the ground with a punch that broke his nose then climbed on top and began hammering his head against a sidewalk.

    Prosecutors say Zimmerman profiled the black teenager, assuming he was about to commit a crime, followed and murdered him.

    Zimmerman’s second-degree murder trial is to begin June 10.

    In court Tuesday O’Mara mentioned the video as one of several pieces of evidence he wants to put in front of jurors to show that Trayvon had a history of fighting and an interest in it.

    The judge ruled Tuesday that O’Mara may not talk about fighting during his opening statement but if he convinces her during the trial that it’s relevant and admissible, she would allow it.

    O’Mara has unearthed a good bit of evidence that he says shows that Trayvon took part in organized fights. Last week, he released text messages from Trayvon’s cell phone. In one the Miami Gardens’ teenager wrote that in one fight he got pummeled in in the first round because his opponent got him on the ground.

    Also in court Tuesday he said he had found video of Trayvon refereeing a fight.

    Natalie Jackson, an attorney for Trayvon’s family, was asked Tuesday what she knew about a video showing Trayvon video-recording his friends beating up a homeless man. She said she was not sure it existed.,0,7127296.story&hl=en&gl=us&strip=0

  2. Lonnie Starr says:

    I got up this morning in a rare mood, here’s a little work I managed to get done about that “bending the corner” and stuff. I managed to locate the two videos that taken together illustrate that, either there had to be another group of people out there, racing towards where Trayvon and GZ were stationed, or witness 11 is lying through her teeth.

    • PiranhaMom says:

      @Lonnie –

      Great work! Thanks!
      Great thanks to LLMPapa and Trent Sawyer, too.

      Clearly it was the rest of the posse rounding the bend upon hearing Trayvon’s screams.


      Then they beat a hasty retreat, saying, “Shit, he’s shooting!”

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        I like that theory too.

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @Lonnie –

          I don’t know anything else that could account for us. Would be a minimum of two people. I can think of two people likely involved, plus a third “tag along.”

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Well the people discussing it so far, fail to note that while Shellie’s car is found very quickly by the officer sent to check on cars, Osterman’s car isn’t found at all inside the RATL, so where did he manage to park his vehicle so that it wouldn’t attract any attention? In somebodies driveway? Or did he call gz from the MI bank and have Shellie come pick him up, leaving his car there in the lot?

            Foggen wasn’t parked at the mail shed that long, so Shellie or Osterman could have easily been laying down on the back seat. Even for casual purposes they wouldn’t want to be seen, because that would make it two against one and more difficult to imagine gz as a hero of any kind. Those suspicious sounds on the NEN tape, certainly require some explanation.

            I can just see Taaffe, Osterman and Shellie, out there racing after gz who ran south of the Tee “Oh S–t he’s in hot pursuit”, they round the bend and start south arguing about what to do next when they find gz, and BANG, a gunshot?!? Oh Geeze we’ve got to get outta here.
            Shellie drops the key with the flashlight, tries to retrieve it but Osterman and Taaffe scoop her and pull her along, “no time for that we’ve gotta get outta here he killed the kid!”

            [Wasn’t that your first scenario? If memory serves it was quite good.]

          • PiranhaMom says:


            re: “Well the people discussing it so far, fail to note that while Shellie’s car is found very quickly by the officer sent to check on cars, Osterman’s car isn’t found at all inside the RATL, so where did he manage to park his vehicle so that it wouldn’t attract any attention? In somebodies driveway? Or did he call gz from the MI bank and have Shellie come pick him up, leaving his car there in the lot?”

            Lonnie, didn’t Osterman write in his book or tell Dr. Phil on TV or otherwise publicly proclaim that he “drafted in” the gates after Shellie? (Miraculous timing!)

            Your scenario of the Vigilante Posse matches mine. The sound of screams and gunshot would alarm anybody!

            Especially those who would not want to be questioned by the authorities.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Well they probably knew him to be drugged up and angry. Probably hadn’t eaten all day, taking pills to calm the nerves, he wasn’t in good social or mental shape with car repossession and eviction looming with nothing to eat in the house. Perhaps Shellie became concerned and asked MO to come over because she couldn’t find her gun and gz wouldn’t tell her where it was. Or he wouldn’t give it back. MO calls Taaffe and someone calls gz… So now gz leaves on the hunt with the others following behind out of curiosity.

            They take Shellie’s car and scoot over via LOW to TTL, park and walk east and observe, until they see gz leap from the car and go running east, they rush down to the north walkway/cut through and attempt to follow, but gz goes over to RVC and south, they’ve lost him, they stand around a bit, trying to figure what to do, they start back for the car. Moments later they hear the screaming and rush back around, debating on what they should do, but as they round the corner with MO in the lead, they hear the gunshot. MO knows that he can’t afford to be caught here, he quickly turns, spreads his arms and herds them back to the car….

            Nope, not gonna work, it needs quite a bit more polishing up and some fixes. But it can’t simply be discarded, because we’re learning new things every day. Theories that once seemed too far fetched are now the working ideas. So who knows?

          • PiranhaMom says:


            I’m only interested in finding out if they were the “voices: rounding the corner” and establishing that those voivces were NOT Trayvon an fogen

            If it is any of the trio – then I want to know A LOT more …

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Have no fear, there are eyes all over the files. As you can see, by the bike fight and Jon’s garage door frame blood stain, things don’t get discovered until there’s a reason why they means something.

            Of course not everything’s been released and much of what they have and what we’ve seen, won’t be used at trial. So, after the case is over, it will all sit in a box on a shelf in some godforsaken storage room. While the world moves on to the next big thing. Until perhaps, one day some University researcher gets his or her hands on that box and gets to go through it with a fine toothed comb. If we’re lucky we may see an article in the Atlantic Monthly or some such. Unless it’s a statistical study.

          • Shari says:

            Where is all the personal info about GZ? I know he had pocket change on him when arrested but we know his car was repossessed? He was an insurance agent? What was the job he needed the medial excuse for? Didn’t he work with Joe Oliver? Or was that in the past? I haven’t been following this case as closely as some of you, there are some amateur PI’s here.

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @ Lonnie –

          Need to CORRECT that statement to:

          “I don’t know anything else that could account for IT. Would be a minimum of two people. I can think of two people likely involved, plus a third “tag along.”

  3. smokeegyrl says:

    I read in a article that MO’M has stated that he has a copy of a video of Trayvon Martin recording two of his buddies beating up a homeless man. How does he know that it was Trayvon Martin video taping anything. I just viewed youtube video’s regarding beatings on homeless man and most were Police beating them up and only a few non uniformed. There is over 13 pages of Homeless men being beat up. One being the Sandford Police son. Then MO’M in this article states there are unsolved murder cases in Miami and hinted that they need to be investigated to see if Trayvon Martin had anything to do with them. I researched, I found there are 6, one being resolved so leaves 5. None were Homeless and 3 were black men who have been shot, 2 Hispanics also shot. I feel that O’Mara is reaching out again to still taint the jury pool after the May 28th hearing. Why can’t this man shut up. He is going on a bunch of news media stations making up excuses for what he has done. Blaming everything on the State. He is making this about Trayvon Martin not George Zimmerman. sick sick sick. What a ploy of lies.

    • Trained Observer says:

      To hear MOM tell it, Trayvon was probably involved with the Lindbergh kidnapping. Disgusting.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        The Treestump has a video of a homeless man on a bus being beaten by some black kids – of course, black kids = Trayvon. Trayvon definitely is NOT in the video. Sundance Cracker starts this shizazz and I’m pretty certain he knows better – it’s just another cheap trick to stir up trouble.

      • Malisha says:

        No I think the allegation is that Trayvon Martin was responsible for the kidnapping of that baby that “some informed sources” revealed was born to an “underage child” who had been “statutorily raped” by a “young unidentified Black male with a tattoo who looked real suspicious.” I don’t know what his thing was.

        • racerrodig says:

          But was he looking at all the houses……skipping, running ???? The suspense…’re killing me !!

    • Rachael says:

      As much as I hate GZ for manning up, nothing matches the hatred in my heart – and I don’t care if that is wrong and makes me a bad person and poisons my soul etc., etc. – for MO’M. He is just plain pure evil.

      Why can’t he just STFU you ask? I don’t know, but he really should before someone does it for him.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        Just take a deep breath, and think about the ass whupping he’ll get at the trial. O’Mara has lost his credibility with every non GZ supporter. When he loses this trial, his career will be over.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          amsterdam says

          O’Mara has lost his credibility with every non GZ supporter. When he loses this trial, his career will be over.

          this is true. in the beginning, i gave him the benefit of doubt. i firmly believe that the defendant is entitled to the best possible defense (that his supporters are willing to afford). yes, i’ll admit that i often tell his supporters to send more, keep giving until it hurts. that’s my style.

          it is o’mara’s actions and his alone that has since caused me to consider him as a scumbag.

    • Jun says:

      To be honest, I am not surprised

      Of course he would tell lies and slander and smear the victim with his false information

      This is the same man that schemed and lied to the court about money and passports

      The stuff he released on his press releases I mean “motions” after investigation turned out to be him spinning and twisting everything out of context and it was not as bad as he put it out to be or not bad at all

      We saw the same thing with Jodi Arias’ lawyers as they accused him of all sorts of evil things but all that could be proven was Travis may have said some mean things to her calling her a slut and everything else they claimed turned out to be a complete lie

      It’s like his “fight club” videos where the source is not authenticated and the person Omara alleges is Trayvon does not even look like Trayvon

      I am gonna say it is an outright lie and besides, the murder trial is about what happened that night of the killing and the fact is, he has no evidence that says otherwise, except for Fogen’s contradictory words

  4. Surrealdreamer says:

    I know there is a hearing today can someone remind what this one is about?


    • Nef05 says:

      It was cancelled. It was about O’Mara’s anonymous jury motion, and the media’s response to it. The media agreed to anonymity during trial, if the judge put a limited it to the duration of the trial and in the courtroom. They want to be able to do post trial interviews and such.

  5. John Galt says:

    May 31, 2013 at 9:49 am

    “There really are a lot of people who get their GZ/TM info from “Reverend” Al, and ONLY from him and people like him.”

    Yes, but statistically only 1 of them will be among the 6 jurors and 2 alternates. Now if O’Mara could come up with reason to strike that person from the jury, I don’t see a problem. Maybe something clever like “Do you watch Reverend Sharpton’s show?” might be a good place to start.

    Make the madness stop! Make It Stop!

    • Malisha says:

      SouthernGirl, don’t worry; it doesn’t have to stop. In this particular case it will just be overridden. We will have plenty more outrages to listen to and read before the trial is over and of course there will be plenty of people who ignore logic, ignore the evidence, and comfort themselves by making claims that range from idiotic to delusional — that’s part of the free speech process and we can’t make it stop. But this time it won’t win the day and that’s where we can take comfort.

    • LeaNder says:

      Amazing statement. Southern girl. I wouldn’t be so sure about the support of all of the people superficially “like me”. What exactly do you mean, I would ask innocently? That is the suggestion that I find interesting, since they tend to not quite show their “face”. At least that is what it feels to me. Or do we have a Sanford poll on matters?

      If he has, as it feels to me, black Americans in mind, the odds would be more 50/50 than one out of six.

      Strictly, I am sure GZ would like to have a white only jury, would that make sure it’s only one juror?

      I seriously doubt in contemporary America they can select between black and white when sending out the notices. I also think that not all black people in Sanford are unable to make it on the jury. I do in fact believe the odds are again 50/50 for each camp.

      That said, I just watched Rev. Sharpton’s interview with O’Mara. It may have helped to get the last question out first and only concentrate on that. Obviously O’Mara’s response makes no sense. After all they did not publish it just to get it into evidence, nothing O’Mara said forced him to do so. Obviously, neither did he publish all of it, for his own obvious reasons. Secrets creates rumors.

      I wish Al Sharpton had tried to keep emotions out of it, and lured O’Mara into some traps. Should be possible. There is a video on the Orlando Sentinel were he suddenly touches the left side of his nose in a very interesting context. 😉 Neither before nor after it his hand ever appears on the video.

    • LeaNder says:

      Interesting, Southern Girl, I forgot I can only use one link in my reply. but I also got carried away. 😉

      So let me tell you, shortly, without looking up, John Galt. The odds, he has in mind will be more 50/50. And I wouldn’t be so sure that the people superficially like me all share my opinion, neither should he.

  6. LeaNder says:

    I wonder if someone finds this statement, as “classic” as I do. Made my mind wonder about humankind, the frontier myth and the American dream. The human level we surely share all over the world.

    At Jeralyn’s nest, the two factions face over Jeralyn’s latest fundraising support, they face each other over dire aspects of law versus money and resulting rights in America, and the ultimate remedy and guarantee of freedom in this context: SYG.

    To some extends we may well sing similar basic tunes on both sides. Take this one: Put yourself in GZ’s shoes for one moment!. Yes, indeed, I have been putting myself in Trayvon’s shoes, almost from the moment I heard about the story. But GZ really never disappears from my story, the way the real Trayvon seems to have to disappear like a baby birdy fallen out of the nest and eaten by a cat. As if it never existed as anything else but a baby birdy fallen out of the nest and eaten by the cat. That’s what it feels like watching this type of tales. Trayvon still has no right to exist the way he want to exist, he has to exist the way other want him to be.

    But this is “classic”, maybe even funny?. Someone I respect over at Jonathan Turley’s blog used a coinage that feels close to my sentiment. “George is a coward with a gun”. That’s my impression in a nutshell, maybe I would add something before coward that could somehow help to inflate the coward, glorious, pompous? No, well you get what I mean.

    Now listen to my “friend cboldt”:

    Even manslaughter was fudged (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by cboldt on Thu May 30, 2013 at 09:52:33 PM EST
    Serino had to invent an element of manslaughter, or redefine manslaughter, or invent a brand new crime, in order to reach the conclusion that a charge was justified.

    He had to insert “could have prevented the outcome by not getting out of the truck,” which is a completely unworkable theory of law. It can’t be that the winner in combat (who always could have prevented being on the scene, somehow) is always the loser at law.

    Tell me what this statement triggers in your mind.

    • LeaNder says:

      correction: Trayvon still has no right to exist the way he wanted to be, not even as a memory trace, he has to exist the way others define him.

      So they can all feel winners?

    • racerrodig says:

      These statements provoke the thought “Spin Dr.” Evidently he doesn’t understand the “…otherwise provoked…” and “..initial aggressor” terms and what they mean.

      Serino never stated that getting out of a vehicle was / is a crime. Manslaughter was not fudged…..his version or wholly out of context and nonsensical.

    • The person who made the comment does not understand the concept of circumstantial evidence and completely misses the point.

    • SearchingMind says:


      The problem with TalkLeft in matters regarding Trayvon is that 99% (cbolt, MJW, etc.) of the commenters there are from the Conservative Tree House, the Blaze, Stormfront, and other neo-Nazi (leaning) sites. That 99% comments exclussively on Trayvon Martin and is MIA on other topics.

      Another problem is that Ms. Jeralyn Merritt (aka Jera) is neither moral nor extremely smart. For some mediocre lawyers who have desperately tired but consistently failed to make it as renowned academics and legal minds (they dreamed of), the only way to “fame” is infamy. You know, infamy is cheap, very cheap to attain. There is an abundance of infamy and one does not have to go through any contest whatsoever to attain it. That’s what Jera does best. This time, she pees and dances on the grave and memory of a dead kid that was murdered in one of the most disgusting ways. And she revels in the publicity such attracts to her.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I’ve read cboldt since the beginning of this case. To be fair, sometimes he makes sense, adhering to the facts of the case. but lately he or she seems to be tying himself or herself into knots to support Fogen’s innocence.

    • LeaNder says:

      Thanks all, I was very, very tired when i wrote the above. I have this really bad habit of working straight for two succeeding days without sleeping. After that I usually sleep 12 hours non stop. So it really is stupid to do it. On the other hand I sometimes cannot stop my mind and get to sleep. I start to lie down and suddenly all these little ideas pop up, like “this could work”. In these stages I sometimes am awake till early into next morning and give up on sleeping anyway. So it’s hard to find a solution. And sleeping pills are none for me.

      I marked what stood out for me in this comment. I cannot really wrap my head around the fact that someone can actually perceive GZ as a winner or someone that would be a winner if he was not prosecuted. Winner in combat, also stood out for me. Why not fight but combat? Winner and combat suggest a more fair ground, both sides are armed. ….

      Besides it would be better to subscribe again and ask him himself, to explain more clearly what he meant with it. But, tstas, in this context especially. I guess, he is the person I had most exchanges with over there, not since I share his views, but since he is the most involved since I watch TL from other side.

      SM, I am vaguely aware of what you write. Since I watched that most of the regulars avoid the topic for that reason. Only sometimes they pop up and bring in their perspective, often pointing out the unfair application of JM of her own rules. But strictly this tells us that Jera is very, very aware that she does not have the support of her own camp. Notoriety does not completely satisfy me, admittedly.

      Thanks to the professor for his quite to the point remarks. Whenever I read his comments I get the impression that after all law makes sense, while in cases like Cboldt it mainly suggests a misuse of law for individual advantage. I am not completely sure, but I think he once wrote he is a lawyer himself. Whatever amount of understanding for he exploitation of legal loophole I may have, they definitively stop in the case of murder. That’s why obviously, as the Professor suggests, law must be prepared for the scenario.

      Didn’t Fogen start to study criminal law AFTER he had some troubles with law himself?

  7. Woow! says:

    I have been trying to find articles or conversations surrounding Wolfinger and the former Chief of Police. Based on your (bloggers) knowledge of the case (1) was any evidence found as to why Wolfinger decided not to charge Zimmerman (2) I remember reading somewhere a while back that Sr. said he had conferred with Wolfinger the night of the shooting…. @professor could this be considered interfering with an investigation? (3) is there proof Sr. influenced the DA and sheriff in any way? (4) @professor can any of the people MOM has lied about sue for him libel or defamation?

    • Rumors abound concerning the possibility of a connection between Wolfinger and Zimmerman Sr. I would rather not speculate.

      • Trained Observer says:

        I would like to know what Wolfinger’s letter (now sealed ) to Gov. Rick Scott (and don’t get me started on him) seeking recusal in the Fogen case states. Wolfie’s subsequent decision not to run for re-election is a strong tell that there’s something amiss here in Wolf’s involvement on Trayvon’s death.

  8. GirlP says:

    However, O’Mara’s PR campaign affects public opinion, in court they will have to face the hard facts in this case. Zimmerman’s implausible and multiple accounts of Trayvon’s alleged attacks, 1990’s theatrical script from some gansta movie will not help him. Forensics and witness testimony will destroy Zimmerman…Zimmerman will not be able to take the cross if he takes the stand. The child screaming for help and for his mother will convict Zimmerman

  9. ay2z says:

    Clearing the smoke..

  10. ay2z says:

    Day 10 in the countdown to trial by LLMPapa…

    This reminds me of a word…. ‘depraved mind’.

  11. Two sides to a story says:

    2010 – Bad blood between Wes White and the Nassau County sheriff

    • SearchingMind says:

      Surely, Mr. W. White has an huge ass (I mean axe) to grind. He sure has a huge ego and comes across as a small minded, petty street thug – nothing like a prosecutor/attorney at all! This kind of personality is always poison within collegial institutions (e.g. the SAO). I will not be surprised if he does not show up for cross-examination next month.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Sure seems to be lots of toxic characters in this FL saga.

      • texad says:

        @ SearchingMind

        It is telling that everyone who comes out on the side of GZ oozes slime.

      • Malisha says:


        Mr. W. White has an huge ass (I mean axe) to grind. He sure has a huge ego and comes across as a small minded, petty street thug –

        Uh — that, unfortunately, DOES describe a fair number of prosecutors. Because they have even more “discretion” than judges, the less than perfect ones quickly increase their misconduct levels if they are of a mind to do so. They are practically unassailable. Cassilly from Harford County, Maryland charges people with crimes so he can get them into jail on a high bond and then recycles them on coerced plea deals into either the state mental asylum for six months’ of paid Medicaid-funded psychiatric “treatment” or drops the charges after a year in jail or so — while various Sheriff’s office scams are used to profit from the “assignments.” Everybody knows it. There have been some lawsuits about it and the taxpayers always have to ante up to cover up their officials’ misdeeds but the settlements of the lawsuits are always secret. They have even killed people and gotten away with it on the taxpayers’ “largesse.” It’s really not terribly uncommon. It shows the deterioration of our society in the most egregious terms.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Yes, I’ve read of many examples of the sorts of proscutorial behavior that you’re citing. I believe that there are some misbehaving who also win awards! Yikes!

    • Rachael says:

      It keeps shutting down my phone. I’ll have to loooj at it when I get up to my computer but wow.

    • racerrodig says:

      Gee, imagine that, another corrupt, immoral lout on the defense team. Who have thunk it??

    • Trained Observer says:

      Looks like Corey is dealing with two major good ol’ boy egos. A fascinating part of this story is how White screwed up by not telling the jurors in the one murder case that manslaughter with a firearm can bring a 35 year max. By overlooking that, Judge Foster was limited to a 25 year max.

      If the Fogen jury decides to dumb down to manslaughter from murder2 (hopefully not), BDLR or the judge no doubt will mention manslaughter with a firearm as a 35-year option along with the killing a minor aspect.

      • cielo62 says:

        Trained Observer- I was more than a little disillusioned that Corey did so little to investigate those sexual harassment allegations. Sounds like that office got toxic very quickly.

        Sent from my iPod

  12. Jun says:

    Have they blamed the “jewish lib-ree-roll media” and the “black and jewish league against whites”?

    My bad, Robbie The Racist has done so

  13. Rachael says:

    But anyway, I posted the ^ because of some similarities – the guy chased after the man stealing his truck. You would think that’s okay since it was his truck, right? Yet even though he saw the guy actually doing something wrong, it still didn’t give him the right to shoot him. He also said he thought he raised his hand and might have had a weapon (self-defense?) but that didn’t fly either – though his wife said it looked my like the thief flipped him off as he chased after him.

    Anyway, I think y’all get the point here.

  14. Rachael says:

    I bet the refuse at the outhouse would disagree with this, thinking this guy had every right to shoot – but c’mon people – its a truck!!!! No human life is worth that (though I do believe he meant to shoot out the tires)

    Anyway, you just can’t go around shooting people!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      The comments there are sad. Why do people think they have a right to execute others over material matters? The shooter could have ID’d the guy. Don’t they realize how much they magnify pain and suffering by killing someone unnecessarily?

      • Rachael says:

        Oh, I didn’t even see the comments. But yeah, that’s the point. Same with Trayvon. GZ just HAD to go after him, for what? Why? Was there anything there that really could not have waited for the police? To take the life of another person, for WHAT??? But yeah, those comments are like the same kind who think shooting people is okay, it was okay for that guy, it was okay for GZ and I just don’t get it. Isn’t the life of a human being worth more than a frickn truck or another asshole getting away?

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Of course these are self centered people with little to no thought of humanity or the human condition. The law, however, has a different mission. It is the mission of the law to “civilize” society so that people of the nation can live peacefully together. A kill shot removes a person from his friends, his loved ones and his family and work. It not only shuts down the hopes and dreams of the deceased, it is capable of igniting vendetta’s which, by their very nature tends to make society a more dangerous place for all citizens.

        Fear of the loss of property, it’s damage and/or potential future crimes that the victim might commit, are not deemed justifiable reasons to kill, either by society or the laws that a society causes to be codified to prevent same. Anything less would create a definitively uncivil society, where lives could be taken for trivial reasons to numerous to mention.

        • cielo62 says:

          Lonnie- alas some states (like Texas) DO allow killing to protect personal property. And not just your own property. You can kill to defend an employers property. And Texans feel oh-so- righteous in their ability to gun down a thief over material things. Yearly, this state gets worse and worse.

          Sent from my iPod

  15. acemayo says:

    Their are many pict in police department and hositpal that show
    what happens in a fight like GZ said happen to him all over the
    world you will find GZ doesent look like was in an fight for his life
    Can you still take xrays of GZ nose would it still shows signs of
    being broken and his head. Also show back of the heads wound
    anf then show GZ back of his head.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Theoretically at least, an x-ray of even a tiny closed fracture on the bridge of the nose should show up. I’ve had small closed breaks on ribs after falling from a ladder and not had them treated, then later, after another injury, the x-ray technician would say – oh in addition to your new injury did you know you had a recent but healed break on that rib?

      • Two sides to a story says:

        LOL – when I had a small closed fracture at one side of my nose, my nose didn’t particularly look deformed like these pictures because the fracture was more of a chip than a total break, but I did have a gushing nosebleed. And it wasn’t particularly swollen afterwards – maybe a little – but I did have monster raccoon eyes that lasted for a little over a week.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Here’s an x-ray of a pretty good nasal fracture –

      • Jun says:

        Fogen never got hit in the nose

        I been attacked before by bullies when I was a kid, and you bleed like fucking crazy all over… I had blood all over my jacket

      • Malisha says:

        All Fogen EVER had to do to stop the controversy over whether or not his nose was broken was to go have an x-ray. Back when he got the first “hundred dollars” from Peter Pan (remember, the way he told Shellie to move thirteen dollars here and ten dollars there?) (“Oh and save a hundred dollars for my x-ray”), he could have paid for a simple black and white x-ray and a lucite frame to put it in. “Incontrovertible.”

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        Whatever caused the bleeding from his nose, it happened after the struggle was over. There is no way, doesn’t matter who was in control, that no GZ blood would’ve ended up on Trayvon’s hoody, if they were struggling while GZ’s nose was bleeding.

      • kllypyn says:

        even a so called closed fracture will have swelling even slight swelling will be noticeable and it will not go away less than an hour later.

    • SearchingMind says:

      @ Amsterdam

      A’dam, IIRC, there is a drop of GZ’s blood on the shirt Trayvon wore beneath his hoodie. Let’s assume for the sake of argument that forensic experts have determined that that blood has the shape of a ‘drip’. The only possible interpretation would be that:

      (a) Trayvon lay face up when/after GZ shot him;

      (b) GZ was/got on top of Trayvon, unzipped Trayvon’s hoodie, frisked Trayvon (in search of a weapon?). While doing so,

      (c) Blood from GZ’s nose dripped down and dropped on Trayvon’s shirt;

      (d) GZ zipped up Trayvon’s hoodie and flipped him over face down (which is why Trayvon was found faced down in the grass with his hands beneath under his body).

      Do you see any other forensic interpretation for the blood on the shirt Trayvon wore inside his hoodie?

      • SearchingMind says:

        Also assume as fact that the blood on the shirt beneath the hoodie did not travel through the hoodie at all.

      • Rachael says:

        It was a pullover, no zipper.

      • SearchingMind says:

        Ah, thanks Rach for the correction.
        The equation remains the same, though. I have to revisit the evidence dump again.
        I think that the diverse positions of the diverse stains and smears of GZ’s blood on Trayvon’s clothing will play significant role in destroying GZ’s stories.

      • Rachael says:


      • PiranhaMom says:

        @Searcher –

        Yes, GZ searched vainly under Trayvon’s shirt for a weapon; flipped him over and searched again (“flipped” is Serino’s word) looking for a holster in back like GZ uses – then witnesses saw him palpating/rubbing Trayvon’s back – my take is he was checking for an exit wound on Trayvon in case the hollow-point did not perform as advertised. If the slug had passed through “Slim” (Trayvon’s nickname) into the turf/earth under Trayvon, GZ knew his goose was cooked.

        All of this was Zimmerman’s first try at patching together his alibi.

        Anybody know when he fiber analysis will be released?

        I want to know if any cotton fibers from the hoodie show up in the “saddle area” of Zimmrman’s levis – from sitting on Trayvon when he shot him.

      • SearchingMind says:

        @ PiranhaMom

        Nothing is known of fiber analysis – so far. There are three possibilities: (a) fiber analysis was conducted but the result has not been turned over to O’Mara yet; (b) fiber analysis was conducted and the result turned over to O’Mara. But O’Mara decided not to make it public – like the GPS-data and other evidence; (c) no fiber analysis has been performed (I can’t imagine that no fiber analysis was conducted. Who knows?).

        • PiranhaMom says:


          Searcher, the earlier (earliest?) document drop last year, with the ME’s reports on blood analysis and DNA, specifically ordered “fiber analysis.”

          So, are you telling me that it would go to O’Mara – to be released only if O’Mara wanted it released?

          I expected that it would be released in due time just like the blood work was released.

          Please enlighten me. I know you can explain this. Thank you.

      • SearchingMind says:

        @ PiranhaMom

        Remember also that GZ admitted to sitting on Trayvon’s back while Trayvon lay dead/dying face down. Thus, any cotton fiber of Trayvon’s hoodie on GZ’s saddle area of GZ’s levis lends itself to multiple plausible interpretation. Your thoughts?

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        Considering the position I think it was transferred while GZ was frisking him.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Whether hoody fibers are on GZ’s “saddle area” from straddling the boy as he killed him or by sitting on his back after doing so, both show at least depraved indifference to life. Prof brought this up around the time everyone was debating how long Trayvon lived after being shot, last summer, I think.

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @Cercando –

          Agree with you : EVERY SECOND that Zimmerman
          (a) had Trayvon under his physical control, with
          (b) Zimmerman’s gun out, while
          (c) Trayvon was screaming from fear and pain and begging for his life ….

          EVERY SECOND was an opportunity for Zimmerman to DECIDE NOT TO KILL THIS JUVENILE. He could have simply and safely held Trayvon until the cops arrived, if, in Zimmerman’s twisted mind, there was some crime committed for which Trayvon could be arrested.

          Therefore, Zimmerman had OVER 40 OPPORTUNITIES to decide NOT TO KILL THIS CHILD.



          How could it NOT take A DEPRAVED MIND to do this?

          Such terror, such torture, such torment!

          To do this for so long, in the case of such pleading …

          The begging for life, the pleading, the screams …

          BANG! A 9mm slug tears apart Trayvon Martin’s heart, Trayvon Martin’s lung, Trayvon Martin’s life.

          For George Zimmerman, it’s “Mission Accomplished.”

          He proudly claimed, “I shot him.”

      • SearchingMind says:

        @ PiranhaMom

        I think the reverse question that could be asked would be: (a) was fiber analysis conducted on the saddle area of Trayvon’s levis; (b) were any foreign cotton fibers found; (c) does any of the cotton fibers found originate from GZ’s clothing? If ‘a’ and ‘b’ are answered in the affirmative while ‘c’ in the negative, that would also rule out ‘the Trayvon saddled on top of GZ theory’. Your thoughts?

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @SearchingMind –

          Thanks, Searcher, for further examination of the issue – you wrote:

          “I think the reverse question that could be asked would be: (a) was fiber analysis conducted on the saddle area of Trayvon’s levis; (b) were any foreign cotton fibers found; (c) does any of the cotton fibers found originate from GZ’s clothing? If ‘a’ and ‘b’ are answered in the affirmative while ‘c’ in the negative, that would also rule out ‘the Trayvon saddled on top of GZ theory’. Your thoughts?”

          First, answering lots of questions out of sequence this week, with 200 posts coming in each day. So, my good friend, I apologize for not reading/replying to this inquiry sooner.

          Your question indeed points out why “SearchingMind” is so apt for your call sign. YES! Fiber evidence could prove that Trayvon was not mounted on top of Zimmerman. I had not looked at the “exclusionary” value of fiber evidence although the Professor months earlier wrote a column along the line of “the absence of evidence not the proof of absence (poor Zen attempt at paraphrasing here.) So this may be an easily-challenged statement.

          Since writing the initial post I’ve been back on-site, posting/looking for fiber evidence on GZ’s levis knees.

          What is hopeful here is that there is so much cotton in both men’s clothing that night. The red/grey rain-resistant jacket Zimmerman wore is likely 70% to 100% polyester, which does not shed (or adhere to fibers) so well.

          The grass on GZ’s boot tips has to be damning. How else could he get this except kneeling ?

          I expect O’Mara will claim those leaves of grass on the boots adhered when altar-boy Zimmerman was kneeling to recite a requiem over young Trayvon’s body …
          Ja …

      • SearchingMind says:

        @ Cercando Kuce

        You are absolutely correct.

        BUT, PiranhaMon’s theory is about who was on top of whom when the kill shot was fired (and not whether or not GZ acted with ‘depraved mind’).

        PiranhaMon is making the argument that if fiber cottons of Trayvon’s hoodie are found on the saddle area of GZ’s levis, such will conclusively prove that GZ was saddled on top of Trayvon when the fatal shot was fired. That’s a brilliant argument. But it is not airtight (IMO) in that GZ admitted to sitting on the back of Trayvon while Trayvon lay dead/dying face down. One could plausibly argue that it was at that very moment that the fibers from the hoodie got transferred to GZ’s saddle area (not before). This not only seriously undermines the theory that GZ was on top of Trayvon when he fatally shot him – but also results to two (or even three) different but reasonable interpretation of the same piece of evidence (one of which favors GZ).

      • SearchingMind says:

        Cercando, I see that my hasty fingers got your name wrong. My appologies.

      • SearchingMind says:

        @ Amsterdam

        A’dam, would your theory change of you assume – for the sake of argument – that “Stain D” (or any of the stains) is a drip?

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        @ searchingmind

        Let’s assume a drip. For that to happen Trayvon had to be on his back with the hoody exposing the bottom seam of the shirt. GZ’s head would’ve had to be positioned over Trayvon’s midline. In order to restrain a person with your head hanging over that position, he would’ve have to use a restraining position with his body perpendicular to Trayvon’s.
        Like this one, only to restrain someone from this position you would dig in your head, so I would expect blood smears on Trayvon’s hoody.

        Selma and Mary, were outside within seconds and saw Trayvon face down with GZ on top.

        W11 was in the kitchen when she heard the shot, and immediately went to the window and said she saw the body. But she described the body as being not flat on the ground and wearing GZ’s clothes. She was looking outside within seconds too, and saw the same as Mary and Selma; GZ on top of Trayvon, she just couldn’t see Trayvon.

        There really wasn’t time for GZ to turn Trayvon over and get on top of him, before the eyewitnesses saw him.

        I think it is almost impossible for blood to have dripped on Trayon’s shirt

        • PiranhaMom says:


          To A’dam and Searcher – Zimmerman had that bloody lip/mouth/nostril area either just before he fired the shot, or more likely from the kickback from the cheapo lightweight Kel-Tek 9.

          He did not have a mirror.

          He would have had that irritating “:gunky” feeling when the mucus is running out of your nose and you can’t find a handkerchief or Kleenex.

          Instinctively he would put his hand up to his nose – likely the lateral side of his index finger closest to the thumb. Try it. Your thumb and index finger form a horseshoe shape – you brush it up against your nose and mouth. It would be Zimmerman’s left hand, his dominant hand – because the right hand still held the gun. The left hand had been grasping Trayvon’s sweat shirts, but was no longer needed for the task because Trayvon was now dead or dying.

          Time sequence:
          (1) Zimmerman, leaning over Trayvon at close range, shoots; Trayvon is dead or incapacitated.

          (2) Light-weight Kel-Tek, fired only with one hand by Zimmermen, recoils back and slaps Zimmerman in the face.

          (3) Zimmerman removes left hand from Trayvon’s shirts and instinctively moves it up to nose-mouth area to stop the irritation of all the schmutz oozing out of nose and mouth; likely concerned about broken teeth or possible injury to nose

          (Elapsed time: 1.5 to 2 seconds.)

          (4) Zimmerman’s next-phase survival instincts kick in: needs alibi. Having profiled Trayvon as a “suspect” he hopes to find his quarry is armed. Does a quick hand search of front waistband area for gun/holster. ZIMMERMAN FACIAL BLOOD ON ZIMMERMAN LEFT HAND IS TRANSFERRED TO TRAYVON’S INNER SWEATSHIRT.

          (5) You’d be surprised HOW FAST you can work if your next 30 years’ freedom is at stake! Zimmerman raises his haunch and flips the skinny kid over – still under Zimmerman. ‘Cause it ain’t gonna look good if the cops find the kid drilled through the heart, staring up from the grass. AND Zimmerman IS STILL DESPERATELY TRYING TO FIND A WEAPON on Trayvon. He needs to flip him over to find a holster on Trayvon’s back waistband – like Zimmerman himself carries.

          (6) Zimmerman holsters Kel-Tek beacause he doesn’t want the cops to arrive and find him gun-in-hand and shoot him “defensively.”

          (6) Because Zimmerman now has his ass in the air, though still kneeling over Trayvon, it’s a simple matter to shove the shirts up for the rear-waistband pat-down. Finds no weapon on Trayvon.

          (7) Does brief check for possible exit wound on Trayvon’s back.

          (8) Rises from Trayvon’s body, starts wandering briefly with his hand clapped to his forehead, in the universal stance signifying consternation, i.e., “What the fuck do I do NOW?????”

          (9) Meets up with Witness Jon and his flashlight; discusses caliber used.

          Does this pass the Schmutz Test for you?

          • Schmutz test.

            Love it.

            I have been reserving judgment until I see the shape and size of the bloodstain.

            Dripped blood looks different from castoff or a contact transfer (smear).

            Like your theory, though.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Professor Fred –

            While I’ve advocated the “Zimmerman mounted on top kill position” for six months or more, I’m waiting for those ALREADY ORDERED fiber tests that were requested right after the killing..

            Trayvon’s hoodie was long and primarily cotton – knitted, at that. Not tightly-woven. So both his upper and lower outer clothing were cotton from which fibers shred relatively easily. The night was damp. Zimmermans trousers were levis, also cotton – and receptive to fiber shedding and/or adhesion.

            I believe Zimmerman’s knees pinned Trayvon’s arms to his side, leaving Trayvon unable to defend himself.

            As Zimmerman rose – rotated his butt upward – to extract the Kel-Tek 9 from its holster on the back waistband above Zimmerman’s butt – then leaned forward to place the muzzle on the grasped hoodie & undershirt, this action would shift the pressure points of Zimmerman’s knees onto Trayvon’s lean and non-muscular arms — to an excruciating degree, with Trayvon crying out “Sto-o-o-o-op!” from pain WHETHER HE COULD SEE THE GUN IN THE DARK, grasped in Zimmerman’s right hand, OR NOT.

            The impression of GZ’s levis-clad knees upon Trayvon’s hoodie-clad arms – over 100 lbs of pressure from each knee – would also transfer and embed fibers cotton fibers, one unto the other..

            So IU’m looking for fiber-transfer evidence in both the grpin/saddle area of Zimmerman’s levis and also the knee area of those levis.

            We have already seen the grass-clippings clinging to the toe tips of Zimmerman’s boots – which could only come from UNDISTURBED pressure-placement on the grass while Zimmerman was kneeling, then rose without any dragging around on the ground (in hand-to-hand combat); fired the shot, did his search, then walked away without any displacement of those grass shreds, photographed by Sanford PD later that same evening.

            Zimmerman may have washed his hands on arrival at the station.
            He didn’t vacuum his levis or wipe off his boot-tips.

            We need the fiber analysis reports.

            It’s not just the schmutz from this putz.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Professor Fred –

            Sorry for the typos: “So IU’m looking for fiber-transfer evidence in both the grpin/saddle area of Zimmerman’s levis and also the knee area of those levis.”

            Should have been: “So I’m looking for fiber-transfer evidence in both the groin/saddle area of Zimmerman’s levis and also the knee area of those levis.”

            I apologize.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Yes, it’s viable in the main. Good Work PMom.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @ Lonnie –

            Re schmutz.

            Thanks for the support.

            Nothing like being the snot analyst in the group. Tough work, but somebody has to do it …

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Hahaha… 😀

          • racerrodig says:

            I believe, as do my connections, that part of the reason he flipped Trayvon over was to make sure no exit wound existed. If it did, the bullet fragments may be in the ground….how would that be possible with Trayvon on top.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Racer –

            Re: “I believe, as do my connections, that part of the reason he flipped Trayvon over was to make sure no exit wound existed. If it did, the bullet fragments may be in the ground….how would that be possible with Trayvon on top.”

            Agreed. “Patricia” advanced that theory way last fall. Glad your guys agree with me. George was a busy little bee at that moment, wasn’t he? Checking for a weapon, checking for the exit wound, figuring out some wild-ass story – hey, way beyond his pay grade!

          • racerrodig says:

            Yep “Minimum brains….Maximum Bullshit” A sure loser at every turn.

            Remember it was discussed that the closer to trial the more the heat would be on. Pretty accurate prediction I’d say.

            Phone records…..and “only” 9 days. That “No Arrest Guarantee” by the Zidiot Nation is looking pretty Phunny about now.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Good work PiranhaMom, just a correction: gz says that he didn’t holster his gun until Ofc. Smith arrived. I guess in the heat of the moment, he worked Trayvon over with the weapon still in his hand.

            More importantly, however, is “stranger” Jon coming out through his garage (as if truly frightened?), then goes around to the dog walk to meet “stranger gz” with a gun still in his hand, and strikes up a casual conversation with him? He then takes a picture which gz had to kneel down for (?) who gave screen directions for that?

            Then Smith arrives and according to gz, he then holsters his gun and asks Smith for permission to call his wife which Ofc. Smith refuses, so he asks Jon to do it for him? Some have opined that Jon might have gotten gz’s number as part of the NW program, but then, he’d have gz’s number not Shellie’s number, since they each had cell phones not landlines. So why are they claiming to be strangers? Oh yeah, in case anyone saw gz knocking on his door when he left blood on the garage door frame? I’d guess that’s why Jon took care to exit through the garage, so he could later claim that wasn’t gz being seen there, but just him coming out to see what the commotion was about. Neat eh?

          • PiranhaMom says:


            One of the posters reported the other day that GZ gave conflicting reports as to when, in the sequence of things, he holstered his gun after the killing

            So I can’t tell you either way. With Zimmerman there may even be a third version, ad infinitum..

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            I understand completely, we have so many versions to choose from. It’s likely that none of them ever happened, knowing how gz is prone to lie about everything under the sun.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        I forgot to mention something. One blood drop, means the fight wasn’t moving. If the fight was dynamic, the blood would be sprayed into many little droplets or immediately smeared afterwards.

      • amsterdam1234 says:


        I think kick back from his gun, is the most likely explanation too, but I think the blood was on his right hand. Blood was found on GZ’s jacket on the lower right sleeve and blood was found on the cuff of his right sleeve, possibly belonging to Trayvon. Also GZ’s blood was found on the grip of his gun, but not on the trigger.

        • PiranhaMom says:


          Tanks, A’dam! Blood on Zimmerman’s right jacket wrist location indicates then that he swiped the schmutz under his nose aftr recoil impact, put the gun in the holster (good point that there’s blood on the gun but none on the trigger, ergo the blood got on that right hand AFTER the shot was fired then recoiled, smashing Zimmerman in the lower face – Zimmerman pressed lower face w/right hand, put gun back in holster, likely wiped face again, searched Trayvon for weapon. Transfer of blood to Trayvon’s inner shirt during frontal search.

          Brings up a point – do you know why there are buttons on men’s suit jackets at wrist level? Usually 4. It’s an homage to a 19th Century British Army custom – they had buttons (usually quite dimensional) sewed onto the uniform sleeves to keep ignorant farm-country recruits from wiping their runny noses on the back of their tunic wrists.

          Handkerchiefs were for the gentry in those days; farm boys (often dragooned into service) were clueless about such effete nose-clearing customs. Officers, however, were appalled to see snot-laden uniforms rampant among the lower grades. Thus tunic sleeve buttons at the wrist became de riguer for the military to remind the enlisted men to dispose of their mucus more gentlemanly and NOT wipe their sleeves across their nose. Even issued brown cotton handkerchiefs, in khaki (an Indian cotton fabric of that color – pronounced “car key”) to accomplish the job. Color camouflaged tobacco use – widespread since Sir Francis Drake brought it back from the colonies.

          • racerrodig says:

            I learn something new here everyday. Funny, someone told me long ago that the buttons on the sleeves were simply spares. It kind of made sense other than why there and not sewn inside like a few suit jackets I’ve bought. Of course, some have them in little itty – bitty zip lock bags.

            Of course this begs the big question…..which sleeve will FogenPhoole wipe his sweaty brow with on the stand when Bernie gets started on cross. I’m thinking left….not to mention I think he’ll rip the seam under the sleeve with all that poundage he’s put on when he raises his arm.

          • Ya know we don’t really know what goes on in fogens mind…..

            I’ve met very few people who were fuck ups…and even though they denied it…..inside they knew they were…

            Others?……The ones that actually believe their own bullshit are the ones I fear most….

            So which is fogen?……The one that knows he’s a fuck up…..kicks himself in the ass for it….yet will not admit it…..?

            OR? he actually believes his shit?

            He takes the stand……I can see BDLR getting him to have a breakdown……..I mean snap…..and hand him a drool bucket.

            One can only think he’s studying as much or more than he did for school…..Even high school grades sucked….Yet again it’s fogen…..who the hell knows?

          • PiranhaMom says:


            You know, Pat, re ” One can only think he’s studying as much or more than he did for school…..Even high school grades sucked….Yet again it’s fogen…..who the hell knows?”

            It may be that he’s spent so much time fantasizing about the glossy future he’s “entitled” to that he just never paid attention in class.

            Buckling down and doing the grunt work doesn’t seem George’s style. Pity …

          • racerrodig says:

            He’s probably telling O’ Mara “…put me on the stand, lets face it, I can sell ice to Eskimo’s” Seriously…..that’s his stance.

          • cielo62 says:

            Racer- yes, the only thing bigger than GZs stomach is his ego. He no doubt I’d still convinced that he can charm the judge and jurors with just his words. He reads a load of Tree Pet BS and feels reinvigorated. It lets him forget his NEN call, the shell casing and the body.

            Sent from my iPod

          • racerrodig says:

            BDLR “Okay Mr. (Fogen), how is it the the spent shell casing comes to rest 46 feet from the “T” ??

            Fogen “….um, well uh, see, I have that Supercharged version of the Kel – Tek. and um….it ejects the spent really far.”

            BDLR “Really…..and it wound up a few feet from Trayvon’s body, how do you account for that, how do you account for Trayvon being 46 feet from the T”

            Fogen “……………um, blast pressure??”

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Foggen didn’t realize that the law says, you cannot cause a person to fear or become concerned for their own safety, and then claim self defense if a fight ensues, whether it leads to death or not.

            Obviously gz thinks that he’s the only one with any rights out there that night, because of his NW status. But that is not true, because of his NW status, he actually has fewer rights than an ordinary citizen would. While an ordinary citizen might, credibly believe he had a right to keep an eye on a suspicious person, not so for a NW’er who are trained not to follow suspicious people, but to report them and wait for the police.

            Even the police, while on duty, actually have fewer rights than private citizens do. Of course, Police have more powers than private citizens, but, constrained by laws which prescribe their conduct, they actually have fewer rights. For example, a private citizen may give orders to other private citizens (of course whether they’ll be obey is another matter), but a police officer may not do so without a sound and therefore, lawful reason.

            When GZ decided to exceed his mandate, he became a criminal in the eyes of the law, no longer was he a NW’er, but a criminal stalker engaged in assaulting a child. If he caused Trayvon to alter his trip home, by speed or direction, by as little as one centimeter per second, he has committed a serious crime! Thus, the mere fact that he caused Trayvon to run, or even just “move quickly away”, he is admitting that he was a criminal out there, in the process of committing a crime. Once the jurors understand that fact, the rest, as they say, will be history.

          • fauxmccoy says:


            re: drool bucket

            please, god, make it so.

          • racerrodig says:

            It’s coming……they have no idea as to what size this bear trap is.

          • racerrodig says:

            He was 315 out of 317 in HS…….’nuff said.

          • cielo62 says:

            MMP- I’m voting for the latter. As a sociopath, he cannot self-reflect. He’s a fuck up and has no clue. Very dangerous.

            Sent from my iPod

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Racer –

            Re “Funny, someone told me long ago that the buttons on the sleeves were simply spares.”

            Sleeve buttons are always smaller than buttons that fasten the coat or tunic front. Reason: they were originally “nostril size” to catch and cause pain – enough to remind the recruit to stop doing that “mucky habit.”

            Most buttons of that era were made from oyster or giant clam shell, the thin parts of the shell left over after knife/fork/spoon handles were made from the thicker “mother of pearl.”

            As such the small buttons had a thin, cutting edge. Kinda smarts when it slices your nostril. Later, for the military, buttons were made from brass.

          • racerrodig says:

            You made me go look at my suits jacket sleeves. of the 5, 4 have smaller buttons but one has the same size as the buttons on the front. Must have been from the discount rack…??

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Racer –

            Those discounters have no respect for history – “one size fits all” in the button dept. simplifies inventory control.

            IMPRESSED that you’re a guy with 5 suits!

            Let’s see there’s (1) the early Nehru; (2) the burgundy with the wide lapels and flared legs for weddings; (3) a little something in hemp; once it goes outta style you can roll ‘n smoke; (4) the sincere black/navy job for funerals and court appearances; and drumroll, please – (5) the Crocodile Dundee Safari model with shorts! (And the gals still whistle?)

            Fave attire; Baseball jacket & levis in spring & summer; leather jacket and levis in winter; nice navy blazer and tan chinos for taking the BGIYL (“Beautiful Gal in your Life” – pronounce “beguile”) out to dinner where they have a posy and flickering candle on the table.

            Blazer goes to court nicely as well.

            Did I get any of these right?

          • racerrodig says:

            #3 I have 3 of. One very dark green. almost black, great for a New Years Eve party…and one I guess is chestnut.

            I’m a jeans & T shirt kind of guy and I have a ton of button down shirts with cars, tons with guitars, tons of Oakland Raiders and Phillies. Quite a few polo / golf style shirts to.

            I have one corduroy jacket in black that is my wife’s favorite.

          • PiranhaMom says:


            If the black corduroy jacket is your wife’s favorite, you’re BOTH romantics!

            Warms the heart.

            Now … back to crime biz!

          • racerrodig says:

            Back to the crime biz…

            Only 8 + days……’nuff said on that.

          • cielo62 says:

            P-Mom: and since Racer is self employed, he can dress any way he wants!

            Sent from my iPod

          • cielo62 says:

            P-Mom: “The History of Sleeve Buttons”. Sounds like a History Channel “Modern Marvels” show (which I love, BTW). Thanks!

            Sent from my iPod

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        Love that kind of information, thanks.
        He probably immediately touched his nose after impact.
        I think it is possible Trayvon’s back was towards GZ’s front and GZ was pressing Trayvon’s left arm behind his back in an arm lock. They could both have been om their sides or GZ on top of Trayvon. Trayvon may have been able to roll out of the arm lock, when GZ went to get his gun.
        To roll out of the arm lock, Tayvon would’ve had to roll towards GZ. Maybe he was able to get on his knees, in order to get up. GZ may have grabbed his hoody with his left hand, while getting up sideways in sitting position, and shot Trayvon while they were both sitting up and facing each other.
        Then Trayvon fell face forward with his hands grasping his chest, and GZ immediately crawled on top of him. First touching his nose, holstering his gun, then searching Trayvon for a weapon and in the process leaving a blood smear with his right hand on the right bottom seam of Trayvon’s shirt.

        What do you think he got out of that chest pocket?

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @Amsterdam –

          Re: “What do you think he got out of that chest pocket?”

          Is there a chest pocket up by Zimmerman’s jacket right shoulder? Is that what you are asking about?

          Re the “painful clenching of Trayvon’s arm, shot sitting up” concept: this is very complicated. Too many moving parts. Zimmerman could not safely allow Trayvon to move, and Zimmerman knew that, by training.

          I have not yet moved away from the concept that Zimmerman had Trayvon immobilized on the ground when he shot him, for these reasons:

          1) It is hard to kill people, There is a tremendous will to live and all organisms will struggle mightily to survive. I don’t know how much killing you have had to do, but it is very difficult. Victims will work overwhelmingly to thwart you, using all body parts and total energy. That’s what adrenaline is for.

          2) You can see how self-protective Zimmerman was of himself – the strong desire, repeated twice in testimony, to not shoot his own hand – which was grasping Trayvon’s shirts in the mid-chest area, where Zimmerman intended to make “the kill shot.” Notice that he had no interest in merely incapacitating Trayvon such as by shooting him in the leg or shoulder, as examples.

          3) Thus, to protect himself, Zimmerman could not allow a moving target. That is why I also do not believe he shot Trayvon when both were standing up – even if he had Trayvon grasped by the shirts, Trayvon could duck and weave and use his arms to push Zimmerman’s gun arm awry, if either or both were standing, or kneeling or crouched semi-upright.

          4) A few months back there was a terrific photo on this site of MMA mounting that showed the “MMA master” with knees on the victim’s arms. I have no way of telling you where to find it and it would take me several days to locate it, so please accept my word that the photo exists and appeared on Leatherman Law Blog. This painful domination position makes it very clear how to totally subdue a victim, immobilize the victim, then shoot, or slit the victim’s throat, or strangle him. This is the position I believe that Zimmerman took over Trayvon, so he could carefully position the muzzle, move his other hand aside while still grasping the shirts to control Trayvon’s torso, and fire the hollow-point bullet for maximum internal damage to Trayvon’s heart. It was the “kill shot, par excellence.” Totally cowardly, at zero risk to Zimmerman, but effective for what Zimmerman so strongly desired.

          5) Zimmerman frequently gave inconsistent testimony based on “mirror image” with matching verbal slip-ups where he claimed what others did, when the description clearly reflects what Zimmerman himself did, and vice versa.

          6) Zimmerman “had” to claim he was under Trayvon so he could further claim he could not escape – withdrawal being required if he used a Stand Your Ground defense. He claims this position so he could say it was impossible for him to wihdraw. He was hoping for SYG until even his attorney told him, “Hey, you went in pursuit of the victim. SYC can’t be used.”

          7) The on-the-ground kill position was visually so low-profile that some witnesses could not discern, in the dark, that there was the victim under the aggressor.

          8) There were witnesses, but none saw an upright or semi-upright or “two people crouching/kneeling” kill position.

          Therefore, based on Zimmerman’s need to physically control the victim TOTALLY in order to guarantee his own physical safety AND to make the perfect, deadly kill-shot (all of which he accomplished), I continue to believe that Zimmerman was mounted on Trayvon, with Zimmerman’s knees pinning the victim’s arms to the ground at his side.

          Trayvon could only scream, in pain, anguish and total fear.

          The evidence shows that the carefully-placed death shot was not one centimeter out of line.

          • racerrodig says:

            Well said..
            “The evidence shows that the carefully-placed death shot was not one centimeter out of line.”
            The reason Fogen flipped Trayvon over was to see if any of the bullet fragments went through. If any had, they would be in the ground and if the police investigated that….there goes that “I was on the bottom story” that night.

          • PiranhaMom says:


            Re: “The reason Fogen flipped Trayvon over was to see if any of the bullet fragments went through. If any had, they would be in the ground and if the police investigated that….there goes that “I was on the bottom story” that night.”

            Yes, Racer, and Fogen NEEDED that “I was on the bottom” story because it could be his ONLY claim that he was unable to retreat, unable to escape Trayvon. For SYG and self-defense.

            And the story wouldn’t fly if there was a hollow point that didn’t blast apart, and that hollow point went right through and buried itself in the ground. Fogen lucked out – the hollow point functioned as advertised.

            So Fogen made up his “I was on the bottom” story.

            But if Fogen had really been — ha! ha! — under Trayvon, what was this Fogenoaf doing with his arms and fists? Couldn’t he have reached out and restrained Slim’s hands from supposedly pressing on his mouth & nose, slamming that fat head into the sidewalk, etc.??? Trayvon getting all that blood, mucus and saliva on his hands, the mysterious magic schmutz that disappeared by the time his body was transported to the Medical Examiner?

            Naaah — Fogen was evidently the potted plant, and potted plants don’t fight back.

            They lie.

          • racerrodig says:

            And very often it’s what is not said… we are to believe Trayvon was pummeling Fogen and yet when Fogen drew his pistol, Trayvon never lunged for it to deflect it away???????

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Racer –

            Re: “And very often it’s what is not said… we are to believe Trayvon was pummeling Fogen and yet when Fogen drew his pistol, Trayvon never lunged for it to deflect it away???????”

            You ‘d have to ask Fogen why Tryavon never lunged, Racer.

            Since Fogen can’t say anything without lapsing into 70’s B-movie dialog, how does this sound?
            “Homie figured I couldn’t aim my piece coz’ of all the blood in my eyes, so he din’t botha whalin’ on me.”

          • racerrodig says:

            “…“Homie figured I couldn’t aim my piece coz’ of all the blood in my eyes,….” Sheeeeeeeett, never thought of it that way.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Also gz’s cheap hollow point ammo fragmented sending two shards chewing through Trayvon’s lung. Could this be the martial arts video you’re referring to? If not, do a quick search for mounted, in the site search box, because I think I have another one there too. Just no time to search ’cause I’m falling so far behind.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Lonnie –

            Thanks, Lonnie. You’re really helpful. I did try “search” but unfortunately on all the links available to it, none showed the mount position that pins the victim’s arms to the side..

            It was posted earlier this year on this blog, but did not resurface. I’m hoping a reader will recall posting it and run it again for us.

            Again, thanks!

  16. Two sides to a story says:

    I can understand TalkLeft discussing the case – that’s what the blog is about – but now they’re promoting the GZLC defense fund . . .

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Oh, and Jeralyn sez “Regarding comments: If you don’t approve of contributing to Zimmerman because you think he’s guilty, don’t bother to comment. When I get back to the computer, such comments will be deleted . . . “

      • Malisha says:

        So anyone who doesn’t believe in Fogen’s innocence is not welcome to comment on her blog! She’s flat-out nuts! Is it some fatal attraction (many times I have asked this) or is some form of racism bubbling to her surface at 212-Fahrenheit?

        • Shari says:

          If you follow politics you know of the PUMAS. I was very active in commenting on their blogs during the election last year. We had something in common. We knew we weren’t democrats but we were not prepared to say were were republicans. Well when Trayvon was murdered and Obama made his one statement on the case they went full racist. I complained to the blog owners but got no response from one, the other blog owner’s response I didn’t wait for. They made their positions known so I left. They have further demonstrated their racism in their subsequent blog postings and comments. I check back every now and then and they haven’t changed.

          Her blog being named, “Talk Left” says nothing about whether she is racist or not. I imagine some people are Democrats/leftists by birth or tradition.

    • Rachael says:

      I agree with the one comment about what makes GZ so special that he should be afforded as better defense than any other schmuck in the same position?

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I do too, Rachael. I’m surprised Jeralyn didn’t jump all over that one. Sometimes she lets just a few of her long-time posters get away with stuff she’ll delete for others. And she lets the Fogen supporters get away with all sorts of nonsense, though she’ll sometimes delete those folks, to be fair. She likes the facts her way.

      • Malisha says:

        She likes the facts her way.

        Make that, “She likes ‘the facts’ her way.”

      • Jun says:

        It’s all a scheme with those fucktards

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Yeah. “She likes ‘the facts’ her way.”

        Oh, and she came back and deleted comments too. They now pretty much match her facts and so far, has allowed personal attacks and other nonsense by Fogen supporters.

  17. colin black says:

    Two sides to a story says:

    May 30, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    Cuz it got him 12k in a few days, polluted the jury pool, and gave a false perception of Trayvon to the public.

    If OM is not sanctioned, then he’s sure getting away with a big stinking pile of barf and poop, legally speaking.

    But spiritually speaking, I have great faith in karmic justice and God’s plan
    Ironicly he wont get sanctioned because the Jury pool has been picked..And the trial is aproaching at the speed of light.

    An if Judge Nelson were to give M o M an Skellletor the deserved smackdowns they deserve.

    She is smart enough to know that the very act of sanctioning the defence at this cclose to trial would the possable outcome of preduceing the Jury .

    And it would be a case of the pot calling the ketttle black if she said …You naughty boy youve gone an possably preddiced the Jury against the deceased.

    They could counter claim your being a naughty Judge sancioning us so close to trial it bound to bias the jury pooll agin us.

    See what Imean Its a delema J Nelson wont touch with a barge pole untill after trial.

    She may call them both in chambers defence prosecution an defendant.

    An tell them alll to knock it off an if you pull any crap like that agin in my court O Mara Ill have you disbared disrobbed an flung into a cell full of stinging nettles.

    How ever by the time trial rollr round an gets underway.

    The defence will take such a whippimg an humiliation that J Nelson will probably show some compassion to Skelletor An Mo M.

    An any sanctions she intended she will drop as it would be like kicking someone whilst there down.

    No she will save alll her IRE an frustration an Anger for the defendannt as she explains to him what a cretinous peice of human excrement masqerading as a human being he is.
    An how he executed a fine young boy with his entire life to live to love to cry to laugh to Marry have kids grandkis .
    Maybe one of his decendants wouldve discovered a cure for cancer ,
    Or maybe he could have gone to the MOON.

    But foggagge ended his life an he only had the time alive to cry a solitery tear of fear.

    • Judy75201 says:

      Colin, been wondering where you were. Thought you would get a kick out of *someone in a tree* speculating that you are Crump lol.

      • colin black says:

        Thats a compliment I wish i was that hadsome erudite an compsionate dinified and young an in good health.
        And such a beutifull smile white teeth an complexion.

        Unfourtunately Im a decrepit 54 yr old Scot with a rather small tolarance for blithering eejits.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      You have a good point, Colin. Might be better to let the defense blunder on and let karma take care of their transgressions the interest of not causing additional boatrocking.

      We’re all our own worst enemies.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Karma of letting MOM and West make fools of themselves is highly appealing.

        Priority One should be Justice for Trayvon by getting Fogen off the streets and into a penitentiary cell for life … or the better part of what’s left of it.

        Why risk a trial delay and more judge shopping now with a two-bit sanction, when once this trial is over O’Mara and West can be nailed with a string of transgressions perhaps even more serious than we realize. Have they been playing games with the beg fund? Dunno, but I wouldn’t put it past them.

        I think Judge Nelson will continue to smile pleasantly as she cracks the whip and keeps a long, long list for dealing with these legal bums later.

    • ic2fools says:

      I completely agree.

      More and more it seems as if OM is purposely pushing at Judge Nelsons’ last nerve in hopes she does sanction him, so he can cry foul and move to recuse her. Specifically to delay trial in hopes for another judge.

      Judge Nelson is not about to let that happen, she will preside Fogens’ trial. Cra-Cra OM is more than willing to accept any consequences in order to achieve his nefarious goal. He will have the hardest day of his career June 10, Judge Nelson going to slap him and West every which but loose.

      • cielo62 says:

        Karma is all well and good BUT for justice to work, we must SEE justice at work. JN must sanction that bastard after the trial is over so that justice can be seen to be at work. Anything less will be an affront to the justice system.

        Sent from my iPod

    • Trained Observer says:

      Colin — “flung into a cell full of stinging nettles.” — COLIN bLACK.

      Or perhaps into a pot full of boiling Skittles?

  18. Judy75201 says:

    Was the Wesley White/Ben Kruidbos situation a possible attempt at a set-up on their part? Anyone have any thoughts on that?

  19. BillT says:

    a place where sharpton could have nailed him = when mom said zman stopped following when he responded OK to the NEN person, sharpton should have said where was he? how far from his truck(this happened when he had only been out of the truck a bit over 20 seconds)? and since he was on the phone with nen over 90 more seconds why didnt he arrive at his truck LONG before his call ended? and how could he possibly be where the body was IF he stopped following at that point, he wasnt where the body was then and his truck was in the opposite direction!

    this case when presented in court will shock the nation at how obviously and blatantly this was cold blooded MURDER….BUT so many legal experts with access to the truth were so far WRONG as to discredit their entire profession!

    no offense intended to the lawyers here, i am aware there are MANY decent people doing great work in that field.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Just another point where God or fate tapped Fogen on the shoulder and he didn’t listen.

    • Shari says:

      There is a great parody of Sharpton done by SNL. He is not the most skilled cable news host. Maybe one day he will get the hang of it. I didn’t expect him to trip GZ’s lawyer up. Is the GZ lawyer going on Lawrence O’Donnell?

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Sharpton was a bit clumsy today, but got his points across well enough. I like how he ended – got some good two cents in on OM, LOL!

      • looolooo says:

        They’re ALL afraid of Lawrence O’Donnell….. with good reason.
        Even more than O’Mara, I’d love for him to have a crack at joonyah. Naturally after the interview, he’d go on Faux and accuse Mr. O’Donnell of gay bashing.

    • KA says:

      I can’t believe Rev Sharpton had him on the show. Why give the bozo crew another shot at the public?

      (I am really sorry on the “bozo” part, it was an unintended, unfair insult to my favorite Chicagoland clown from childhood…)

    • mcave77 says:

      Great points!! I thought that Sharpton should have zeroed in on MOM saying that you have to meet force with force. Really?? How is GZ’s gun equivalent to anything TM had. We know they were not on the sidewalk at the time of the shot per w18 and GZ admits to having TM in wrist lock so please MOM, tell us how GZ met force with force!

      • Nef05 says:

        You’re right, and I’ll add that the statute authorizes lethal force if you have the reasonable fear of being the victim of a forcible felony. It does not require force with force, nor does it require actually “being” the victim, only the reasonable fear (objectively speaking) that you will. Which is why the prosecution stated on the record, at the second bond hearing, that any actions Trayvon “may” have taken were in self defense.

        I’m pretty sure O’Mara counted on Rev. Al not being familiar with all of the Florida Statutes pertaining to this case.

      • looolooo says:

        I’d love it if someone, ANYONE would ask MOM how Trayvon was able to grasp hold of fogen’s cro magnon noggin. How? There was no hand prints or bruising on his ears, face, head from the pressure it would take to do such a thing.

        And I’d also wish they’s ask MOM just WHERE on the concrete did the head banging happen! Where are the blood stains?!

        And what about the lack of fogen’s satanic DNA on Trayvon’s hands?

        Why aren’t those questions being asked?

        • fauxmccoy says:

          looolooo says

          I’d love it if someone, ANYONE would ask MOM how Trayvon was able to grasp hold of fogen’s cro magnon noggin. How? There was no hand prints or bruising on his ears, face, head from the pressure it would take to do such a thing.

          i suppose it would have been technically possible for martin to have palmed the defendant’s head as a basketball and dribbled it on concrete……. but a basketball is an inanimate, bouncy object and the human head is not. that anyone even considers the defendant’s story as plausible boggles my mind.

    • Nef05 says:

      One thing that peeved me off, and I haven’t seen anyone mention it yet, was that O’Mara represented himself as a former prosecutor. Which just gives even more support to the Professor’s assertion that O’Mara was intentionally duplicitous in his motion(s).

    • Jun says:

      I dont think it matters for Sharpton to contest Omara because his show does not matter that much, the courtroom is where it counts because when court and trial hits, Omara will become a shriveling weasel at trial and he knows he can’t claim all that mess and he will be contested anyways

      The witnesses are more believable than Omara because they were actually there and have no bias to the situation

      It’s pretty bloodclot obvious Fogen stalked this kid and that it was a kid screaming for help and pleading for Fogen to get off him and for Fogen to stop going at him

  20. Judy75201 says:

    JN doesn’t have to worry about recusal if she waits to sanction until after trial.

    • Malisha says:

      or for any other reason.
      They know they’re not getting away from Judge Nelson.

    • Jun says:

      I dont think Omara can recuse Nelson and besides even if he does, considering what happened last time with Lester, it will be a even more hard ass judge than Nelson LOL

      I do not even consider the Lester recusal a win for the Fogen LOL

      I honestly feel Nelson going in was a punishment for Omara for utilizing a frivolous motion to recuse and besides, he was afraid of not having a fair SYG hearing allegedly and he never went there anyways

      I think she can sanction Omara and West because they kind of went too far with their nonsense and I do not feel she will get in trouble for that because her decision would be legally sound

      There were way too many personal leaks of personal information and false and phony presentations of information that I feel when trial hits that Omara should be called out on all his lying

  21. acemayo says:

    Omara say since TM and no wounds on him and GZ did then It stands to reason TM hit GZ, also there no proof that GZ kept
    following him after was ask not to do it. Also that GZ is a good
    guy if we says TM is a good person than I can show with my
    many arrows of who TM really will come to light.

    • Omara say since TM and no wounds on him and GZ did then It stands to reason TM hit GZ

      That came straight from the CTH. OMG! O’Mara’s taking advice from misfit morons and going public with it.

    • Jun says:

      I keep forgetting a gun shot that explodes the heart and lungs, as well as global severe brain edema are not wounds

      It’s also possible that Fogen killed the kid as the kid was begging and pleading for his life and for Fogen to get off him, and then Fogen staged his injuries, hence Fogen being the only party with DNA transfer and having “redhanded” from having his own blood and TM’s blood on his hands while Trayvon had no forensic evidence showing he hit Fogen

      Or Fogen could have chased Trayvon and grabbed him out the blue after chasing him with a gun, therefore Trayvon tried to defend himself from a stranger stalking him and trying to grab him

      But hey, I am not an expert like Omara, eh?

  22. fauxmccoy says:

    wow, just watched the good reverend’s show and all i can say is ‘wow, what a lawyer’ o’mara seems, apologies to fred, searchingmind, et al. i realize i am referring specifically to the stereotype of sleaze-0-rama lawyer which is no fairer than the ‘young black males are thugs’ meme, but


    what a double talking, bifurcated tongued, wannabe slick talking huckster o’mara seems!

  23. Mark O’Mara on PoliticsNation with Rev Al.

    • BillT says:

      disappointed that sharpton didnt stop him in saying Tracey Martin said that wasnt Trayvon, since it was on his show that Tracey explained he was asked can you be CERTAIN that is your son and he shook his head and almost whispered no……the police then DROPPED the certain part and said Tracey said it wasnt Trayvon and that is NOT what he said.

      • Trained Observer says:

        With the shock of Trayvon’s murder, I doubt Tracey was CERTAIN of his own name at that point. He has been done a great disservice for his thoughtful response and I hope this comes out a trial.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Ugh. Bald-face lie that there’s no evidence that Fogen proceeded after he told the dispatcher OK. In the re-enactment, he shows how he moved forward “to get an address.”

        Unbelievable bald-faced lie.

      • Thank you for this!

      • Jun says:

        We have Fogen and Trayvon’s GPS

        and we also have witnesses

        and we have geography, time, space, and math

        Fogen’s own words state that they were by the clubhouse when Fogen’s stalking scared Trayvon into running away from him

        Fogen showed that he was pissed off the person he was stalking, Trayvon, was running away, and he is heard getting out of his car, after telling the dispatch “shit, he’s running”

        This was after telling the dispatch they were both by the clubhouse

        40 or more feet south of the T point is between 500 to 600 feet away

        Fogen also calls Trayvon a “fuckin coon/punk”

        Fogen says “OK” after about 20 seconds

        If Fogen did not proceed, he’d only be about 70 feet from the clubhouse, yet he was found over 500 foot away, seen in a chase, and seen confronting, attacking, and murdering Trayvon, as Trayvon screamed and begged for his life, so, Fogen had to have had proceeded forward

        If Fogen wants to take the stand and then contradict his NEN call, that would mean one of his testimonies is a lie, and since Fogen has a motive to lie, which is to try and cover up his murder and crime, he can not be believed since he is making up lies to make it seem like he did not stalk Trayvon

        The people have a duty to the state of Florida to keep their community safe and letting Fogen try to frame a dead kid he killed and after stalking terrorizing and attacking killing Trayvon, as Trayvon screamed and begged for his life, go to prison, sends a message to future predators that framing dead kids they terrorized will land you in prison

      • Malisha says:

        Right, and he told Hannity that (a) he did NOT regret “getting out of [his] car to follow Trayvon; and (b) that he continued on after being told not to follow “because I wanted to meet with a police officer that I had called.”

        Poor memory again, I guess. Oh my oh my — how is he ever gonna be a judge and help people like his incarcerated cousin?

        Oh that reminds me. Trayvon’s cousin = evidence?
        Does Fogen’s incarcerated cousin = evidence?

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          What’s going to put gz behind bars for a very long time is, the fact that the 911 tape places him in contact with Trayvon, over 40 feet south of the T, and without any punches or fighting at all being observed or recorded. Only evidence of some terrified and/or pain filled screaming, and of course gz’s angry voice interrogating.

          Not a good thing for a man who was supposed to be on his way back to his truck and therefore nowhere south of the T at all. Foggen is Toast!

  24. amsterdam1234 says:

    O’Mara up next on politicsnation.

  25. Big Willie says:

    Is it my imagination or did june-yawn (jr), seem star struck while sitting on the prosecution side.

    • Maybe his preference is for REAL men………and not the wanna be’s at the defense table……..just sayin’

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Ugh. Yes. He moved there quickly from the other side just before the hearing started. He knew if the camera panned Sybrina and Crump and Co. that his little mug would be seen too.

      • Rachael says:

        Talk about cruel and a depraved mind!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        LOL, Rachael – you gotta good point. The Fogens kinda thnk in similar ways, don’t they?

      • Two sides to a story says:

        PS – and they dare call the Fulton Martin family and their lawyers the scheme team. Ha.

      • looolooo says:

        I hope that the next time joonyah parks his azz on the prosecution side, I hope attorney Parks, ….. parks his azz right on top of joonyah! He’ll definately be in no shape for another impromptu episode of ” Ode to Narcissim”.

    • racerrodig says:

      Well, we know he’s looking to pick up chicks, that’s for sure. I think he did it to be annoying and he sure was.

      He certainly seems to think he’s some big wheel in this world.

      • PiranhaMom says:

        @Racer –

        Junior knew no cameraman was interested in focusing on him in the courtroom.

        He figured that if he sat by Trayvon’s family and attorney, he might get included in the shot. The media IS interested in them.

        He’s also a sadist. He knew his presence would distress Trayvon’s Mom and Dad.

        Junior probably thought he was “making cute.”

        What a revolting maggot!

  26. Brandi, missouri says:

    I found out how Zimmerman feels that if Trayvon smoked pot is relevant. Zimmerman thought he was going to eat all his snacks and obviously George does seem to love his snacks.

    • HA 🙂

      “This is a stickin’ fuckup……..gimmie them muckin’ funchies”

      • disappointed says:

        Brandi and mountainmanpat, this is not a stick up but you 2 owe me a bottle of water. Mine seems to have been spat all over computer and desk! 🙂

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Glad my teacup is drained. ROTFL

      • Brandi, missouri says:

        Omara keeps wanting to make the pot a big deal. Please tell me how him eating someone’s snacks, possibly laughing at the little weirdo, over analyzing his tv show, then forgetting to turn the tv off before passing out on the couch helps your client.

      • Malisha says:

        STOP THAT!
        (I’m not as dink as some thunkle peep!) :mrgreen:

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      O’Mara would be in very deep doo doo if he somehow managed to get in a claim that Trayvon was high on MJ. BDLR would simply have a toxicologist tell the jury what the effects of pot smoking are! gz is toast!

      • Jun says:

        Omara would get indicted as from what I read on Florida law, telling lies or falsely presenting evidence is a crime in Florida, even for lawyers

  27. Brandi, missouri says:

    Is it possible to just sanction the entire state of Florida. All these crazy racial gun cases, face eating and can’t seem to know how to vote. I took my son to disney world Orlando a few years ago never left the resorts and parks.. I thank god I didn’t florida needs to get it together period

  28. Brandi, missouri says:

    In reading the texts between Trayvon and his mom it is obvious that he had two loving parents that offered guidance and stayed involved. If he is such a thug why did he not smart off even once.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      LOL. Francis, your 15 minutes of fame went thataway>>>>>>>>

      • elcymoo says:

        GZ didn’t say anything to the dispatcher during his NEN call about TM standing in front of FT’s house. He came up with that during his re-enactment the next afternoon, and even then, he didn’t accuse Trayvon of looking in the windows.

        Early on in the coverage of the case, I heard or read a resident of the community explaining that people walking through the neighborhood regularly walked up on the grass in front of houses because the sidewalks were only in certain areas.

      • ay2z says:

        Tstas, his fame went ‘thataway’ but not before that little side trip to Nancy Grace this week, for his 16 minutes as ‘youth drug counsellor/worker’and of course, self-proclaimed expert in drug withdrawal, which he decided Trayvon had for marijuana.

        Let’s see, how would a known drunk caught on video driving in a condition which risks lives of everyone he encounters along the way, be in a position of counsellor or worker with these drug abusers in some program?

        Couldn’t be that he was in that program too, court ordered alcohol program for himself? Could the ‘withdrawal’ word be what he was going through under supervision as part of his penalty for DUI?

    • ic2fools says:

      Thanks PaPa…..

    • Malisha says:

      Ooooooh, you mean a Trayvon-like dude was on Taaffe’s sacred soil? On his very own white-man pristine Master-of-the-Universe soil? With his Trayvon-like-dude feet in his white sneakers that he might have stolen? THAT happened? Wow. I hope Taaffe is getting some help with his recovery. I mean, healing is important after something like THAT happens to a guy. 😈

    • ay2z says:

      It’s time to review the neighborhood ‘watchin’, crime fightin’ concepts.

  29. Jun says:

    Also, is sanction ever gonna happen?

    I also do not get the point of evidence if Omara and Fogen can just say bullshit without consequence, it seems

  30. YQ says:

    Hi, new to the thread, and now that the trial is approaching, I’m interested in the angle that the prosecution is going to take here. What’s going to be the deciding factor? bc its obvious that Zimmerman is going to lie again. Any chance that anyone here heard within the NEN call just after 2:40, the sound GZ racking the slide of his gun? I asked because the tall tale of how he got to the gun during the struggle was too incredible to believe. Any chance that since the audio is admissible, that they can use this recording to try to prove to the jury that perhaps GZs gun was already out prior to the struggle? If there is any way to prove it, it would be a backbreaker for the defense.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      yq says

      Any chance that anyone here heard within the NEN call just after 2:40, the sound GZ racking the slide of his gun?

      hello and welcome yq!

      i will go on record here to express the opinions of many of us here (especially those of us very familiar with firearems) that what people think of as the sound of a gun racking is almost assuredly not. when you consider how the 9 mm was loaded — with a full magazine and an extra live round in the chamber — the gun did not need to be racked, only relatively light trigger pressure was needed. loading the gun this way has its advantages and demerits, but is not something that can be accomplished ‘on the run’. it is more likely that the defendant left his home with the gun already loaded and ready to shoot.

      • YQ says:

        Thanks for the input, fauxmccoy. I’ve seen some YouTube comparisons and it sounds that way, but when I read up on the KelTek 9 they were saying the same thing-no need to rack the slide. Consistent info always helps. Much appreciated.

        Is it still some other clue I haven’t yet realized about how and when he pulled the gun out, or are we at the mercy of his word? It’s just far too incredible from my point of perception. Or will it matter at all? bc it seems to me like there’s enough evidence to go around that point and still prove murder 2.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          yq — thanks and i appreciate your response.

          as to your question about when the gun was drawn, i honestly think that we will never know. that is the unfortunate turn of events to a situation like this where there were only two solid witnesses, one of them is dead and the remaining has every incentive to lie.

          short of a ‘perry mason moment’ when someone shouts out something in court that has yet to be released in discovery that they actually witnessed, how can we ever ‘know’? i don’t like it, i prefer to deal with facts and known quantities, but i don’t think we’ll get such here.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Yet the blood on Jon’s garage door frame got me thinking that, since this sound comes after the rapping which some feel may be gz knocking on a door. Perhaps this sound is actually Jon releasing the locks on either his front door or his garage? Something to give some thought to? Anyone?

      • Two sides to a story says:

        It’s thought the sound is probably Fogen pounding on his flashlight and the batteries rattling against the casing. The one he said didn’t work – SPD said they shook it or hit it to make it work. I have the same type of flashlight and have to do the same thing and it sounds pretty much like that..

      • YQ says:

        @lonnie -yeah that very distinct sound, but now that i think about it there’s alot of possibilities unless there was some other clues to narrow it down. Another place that I’ve read (can’t remember the site) about those shoes. Only the foots of the boots were wet and not the heels. The audio and some early transcripts were also detailing the “delayed wind ambience” after he said “Ok,” (not following). It doesn’t sound like he was simply walking back to his truck as they say.

        I appreciate your input on the KelTek as I have seldom held guns before. You’re right also about we may never know.

        • Faux………..It may be my memory probs…..weren’t there enough rounds, including the spent casing at the scene that he would have had a full clip and one in the pipe?

          • fauxmccoy says:

            mmpat asks

            Faux………..It may be my memory probs…..weren’t there enough rounds, including the spent casing at the scene that he would have had a full clip and one in the pipe?

            yup, which is why i consider it highly doubtful that it was ‘racked’ during the NEN call. sorry, have never liked semi autos or the word ‘racked’ ….. but i do know how to load em up. i stick to my revolvers, bolt action and lever action rifles, just the way i was raised.

          • racerrodig says:

            I believe that’s correct and he had the extra round mag as well.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Well, we already know that gz had a full clip, and was probably loaded to what they call “plus one”, where both the clip and the chamber are filled. The consensus among our gun people here seems to be that neither the racking sound heard in the truck, nor the racking sound heard out back near the dog walk, were Kel-Tec 9 sounds, at least our audio people seem to agree on that.

            If any audio or gun people here wish to take issue with those points, we’d certainly like to read your discussions.

            So now that we have a good idea of what those sounds are probably not, we can speculate on what else they could be. Me? I’d venture that perhaps gz cohorts might have been out there with their guns. Or, since gz in the walk through, tries to make everyone forget that he was running when he left his truck. Which means he could have been at and beyond RVC before he claims to have turned back to his truck. The stain on Jon’s garage door frame, seems to line up nicely with gz knocking on his flashlight (the one Serino found to be in perfect working condition). So, it seems to me that in answer to his knocking on Jon’s door, that sound of a gun being racked, is quite likely just the sound of Jon releasing the lock on his front door or garage door.

          • racerrodig says:

            The racking sound may be his gun. I checked into this on the Kel – Tek website and Fogens version is a +1 magazine. The spent along with what was in evidence = the +1 version he had.

      • YQ says:

        @two sides- I heard that sound too.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        YQ – yeah, hear that 3 pats? He shook that flashlight. That first one that sounds like racking is just a particularly hard bang on that flashlight.

    • Malisha says:

      I believe they have some evidence that will blow the alleged defense so far out of the water they won’t remember salt.

  31. Jun says:

    My question is, when the IRS is gonna go through Omara and Fogen’s beg fund

    I am fairly sure the “broke” claims are all an act

    Because all the money they spent, they have nothing to show for it

    • Brandi, missouri says:

      Thank you

      • shellie & fogen are married………fogen goes to the joint…..shellies left holding the bag for the taxes…..Her involvement with the funds is already established…..MOM on the other hand probably has no liability for the funds income as it wasn’t in his name…..He would only be liable for anything he received from the funds…….office upgrades….pizza’s and such.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Racer – did my Cheetos come in?

      • looolooo says:

        I think he’ll be hearing ………seweee, seweee….. coming out of his own mouth. He’s gonna be pretty dang popular in the “pokey” on account of he sure do got a purdy mouth. ;-p

    • whonoze says:

      I doubt the IRS will be investigating too many more crazy right-wing funds in the near future.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      And the big enthusiasts have stocked Gladys and Sr RZ Sr’s accounts too– so they can pay off the $15,000 bondsman’s lien on their house when Fogen flees.

      • fogen flees….the bondsman owns whatever was put up as collateral for the bond…$1,000,000.00 worth……..end of case….

        Would fogen do that to mom & pops?…….Yeah…I think he will… money riding on it….

      • Jun says:

        I doubt the bondsman does not have an eagle eye on Fogen

        He stands to lose over 900,000, considering, it costs him money to watch Fogen as it is 1 mill minus 10% plus overhead fees for his business

      • Rachael says:

        MMP, it’s not like he’s ever worried about throwing other people’s money away before.

    • Malisha says:

      I believe they are hiding money so Fogen can run. That’s why no motion for indigency; if motion for indigency, then court oversight into what’s in that beg-site fund and where it came from and when and where it went and when and so forth…

      Info blackout about the money means to me Fogen is hiding it in his special place for his special purpose…

      • cielo62 says:

        Malisha- what about his satellite bracelet? He can’t gobtobthe bathroom without it being monitored. He’s too stupid to figure out how to disable it.

        Sent from my iPod

  32. Leisa says:

    Didn’t they say something about where the blood was taken from TM? Unless I am swaying, I thought they said it was taken from the wound and I am not sure what difference it makes but will look for more info on that.

  33. amsterdam1234 says:

    Interesting tidbit. The Colorado marijuana law has put the legal limit for dui, at 5ng/ml. Trayvon had 1.5 ng/ml in his blood. If you have to believe the defense, there will be a lot of legal swaying on the Colorado roads.

  34. Animaljunkie says:

    I think it is relevant to point out, in the presser after the 28th May 2013 hearing, O’Mara stipulated he HAD to release discovery, otherwise they would be unable to use such within their defence in the trial. That statement is completely disingenuous, considering he KNEW he would be unable to use such smear tactics, of the VICTIM, in the defence of his client!

    As a layperson, this behaviour, to me, is demonstrative of a weak defence, with no hopes of success, especially with a jury of six of the defendant’s peers, who will hopefully take ALL their instruction from Judge Nelson.

    I am appalled at the defence’s lack of ethical standards, as expected from officers of the court. I suspect one should not expect anything more than a gutter defence from the likes of the killer defendant.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      *gutter defence* – great term, aj!

    • elcymoo says:


      MOM just made the same claim on Al Sharpton’s ‘Politics Nation’ this afternoon. He said that if he didn’t get all that ‘evidence’ out there, he wouldn’t be able to use it in a ‘more filtered manner’ during the trial. I was screaming at the TV (again!) that he knew darned well (okay, I didn’t say ‘darned’) that it would all be ‘filtered’ out by the judge because it was inadmissible.

      • Since it’s only admissible as rebuttal evidence, if at all, and O’Mara has admitted that he knows that, then he also knows that he did not have to disclose it to use it.

        More evidence that he’s a liar.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          MOM loves him some innuendo and suggestion, so let me show him how it works: Hey Mr. O’Mara, I hear there are pictures of you with an under aged child floating around. Hahaha… There’s also underage children in the area where he holds his outdoor press conferences. Terrible, simply terrible! Hahaha.

      • Animaljunkie says:


        Yes, I saw it live! Rev. Sharpton is so smart, IMHO! He basically made MOM agree that his killer defendant should have been arrested. I was laughing so much; it was priceless!

        I was listening intently at the interview & MOM is such a BS artist aka spinning everything! So I completely agree with you! 😀

        It’s very frustrating when you know something about the case & MOM repeatedly lies through his false teeth! LOL!

        For anyone who wants to watch it, here’s the link ~>

      • parrot says:


        “Yes, I saw it live! Rev. Sharpton is so smart, IMHO! He basically made MOM agree that his killer defendant should have been arrested. I was laughing so much; it was priceless!”

        Sharpton ocncludes: ‘Thank you for endorsing our rallies.”

        Did you see O’Mara’s face after it dawned on him what had transpired?

        That was delightful!

      • Animaljunkie says:


        YES, I did see MOM’s face; I wouldn’t have been able to pay for such a reaction, it was truly PRICELESS! 😀

  35. Leisa says:

    How does mom have a legal right to make Trayvon’s private stuff public. He was a minor and I would think he has no right to publish anything unless it is used in court. Does Martin family have a say in this? I mean what did TM do to justify this?

    • groans says:

      What did Trayvon do to justify this postmortem trashing?

      He was born to parents who knew how to initiate effective action to ensure that his killer did not get away with murder unless a jury found otherwise following a thorough and honest investigation and a fair trial of his killer.

      The killer is outraged that he was SO CLOSE to skating away from any consequences of his depraved behavior, but then became ACCOUNTABLE for his behavior after the public smelled foul play in Sanford, FL.

  36. pat deadder says:

    It seems to me JN is between a rock and a hard place.If she sanctions them won’t they try for another new judge and won’t that delay the trial. Can they be sanctioned after the trial is over.

    • Malisha says:

      JN is not between a rock and a hard place; she has options and she will choose one. She was not born yesterday, and “tomorrow” she will preside at the trial.

  37. Valerie says:

    While attempting to decipher this information regarding the alleged missing photos from Trayvon’s phone, the question of how did Ben Kruibdos know that Omara did not have those photos. Were Kruibdos, Omara and Wesley White comparing notes? Why would an employee of the State Attorney’s office do that? Kruidbos was placed on administrative leave Tuesday after the hearing and has been interviewed twice by investigators. Omara and White, being that both are lawyers,knew that without Kruidbos testimony White’s testimony was hearsay.Judge Nelson issued a subpoena for him to testify at next Friday’s hearing…this should be interesting. According to the professor’s explanation of the raw data being supplied to Omara,, why would an IT director involve himself in the SA business on whether or not information was shared with the defense. Will he join the list of people who have lost their jobs.taking up for the Fogen.

    • disappointed says:

      Why does anyone need to “take up” for Fogen? The truth never lies right? Tell the truth and stand on your own to feet. Guess he can’t though. Another one of those people who is strangers with the truth. Those kind must run amok in Florida. jmo

  38. groans says:

    Wow – Check this out! At loooooong last, there’s actually a news organization interested in the actual evidence rather than all the circus BS!! What’s more, they don’t quote MOM AT ALL … and they actually quote BDLR!

    Grab yourself a moment of zen, courtesy of the Sun Sentinel Editorial Board:

    • It’s nice to see biased reporting…..

      Biased towards the truth and the facts……

      To bad they don’t have a comment board 😦

    • fauxmccoy says:

      hurrah! at last, an unbiased perspective! thank you for posting, groans.

      to quote from j.n. welsh at the mccarthy hearings
      “Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?”

      i ask this of the defense team and their lapdog, r. stutzman.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Amen. I hope some day in the not too distant future that someone asks this question of GZLC.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Hi pat,

      Beginning at timestamp 6:52 gz refers to Jon with flashlight and says he still had his handgun out
      When the police came, gz says he stood up and holstered his gun and was handcuffed.

      Yet, we know that Jon took a photo of gz seconds before Officer Smith came and, in that photo gz is holding his cellphone to his right ear. (=no gun out to be holstered).

      Something is off with the timing or ???

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        During the voice stress test he said he holstered his gun before he jumped on Trayvon to detain him after he shot him.

        They are beginning to float noises about GZ taking the stand. I can’t wait to see Bernie rip him apart.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        And wasn’t the voice stress test was right after this reenactment?

        I wonder why gz felt he needed to change the timing of his holstering of his gun?

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        He is not a system thinker. He deals with his lies one at a time. That’s why his stories don’t make sense, and he will be a complete disaster if he gets on the stand.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I can’t believe they’re saying that. More drama and so untrue. After his dismal interviews, reconstruction, bail hearing “apology” and Hannity interview, you know there’s no way in hell they’d even consider putting him on the stand. They’ve got their supporters all steamed up and opening their wallets is what that little white lie is all about.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        guess my previous comment is in the wrong place. Should be following the nonsense that GZLC is hinting about putting Fogen on the stand. Yeah, sure, right. : /

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        They may have no choice. I was watching the hearing again, and I was trying to think what was left over for the defense in their opening statement. I couldn’t think of anything. Nelson, by granting the State’s motions, pretty much took anything that could be used to defame Trayvon’s character out of the defense’s hands.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Hahaha… And now O’Mara has scared all the experts away from his team. It’s going to be a very short trial, the Prosecution will have their way with the case, anything the defense can put up will fall apart under cross examination. The fact that this happens in spite of the lack of a more thorough Police investigation, says mountains about how badly the defense team has done.

      • Lynn says:

        Timing off=LIES!

        I was discussing this with my daughter a day or two ago. Two things jump out at you as strange about the holstering of the gun.

        ONE…He flails his hands around with clenched fists showing us how he spread Trayvon’s hands out, then in the next breath says my gun is here in my hand when Flashlight Jon comes out.

        Now tell me who in their right mind is going to approach a guy in the dark who is brandishing a gun in their hand???

        TWO…He says he stands up and holsters his gun after he sees the cops, then calmly puts his hands up and explains to cop several times where his gun is.

        Now tell me what cop answering a shots fired call with two men in the immediate area hovering over a body is going to let you holster your gun and ask who shot him? If he comes around that corner and you reach around your back to “holster” your gun, he is going to assume you are pulling out your gun!

        Just how laid back are these cops? The ones on TV would have Z’s a$$ on the ground with Z’s hands spread out. Not waiting on him to repeatedly tell them where the gun is. I’m calling BS on this one.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I need some help understanding why gz made u-turns on RVC before turning right onto TTL.

        Was that perhaps because Trayvon was on one of the back paths to the mailboxes?

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Nope, if Trayvon had taken the back walkway to the mail kiosk he’d have shown up on the east pool hall camera. He never shows there.

          The most likely scenario is that gz left home around ~7:07 or so. Most likely based on a call he received alerting him to Trayvon’s return to RATL. Trayvon was in the mail kiosk by 6:54, because DD’s drop and reconnected call verifies it.

          Thus gz is too late to catch Trayvon entering near Taaffe’s. Now the cctv evidence as plotted by tchoupi shows a car coming down RVC, going straight over to the mail shed, then turning away and retracing back to RVC towards FT’s cut through, then turning around before it gets there, going back to the mail kiosk and stopping there. It is then that the NEN call begins.

          So it seems that gz did not see Trayvon on his first pass at the mail kiosk, so he turned back to look for him. Apparently, whoever was informing him was also watching. They saw him turn away and called to tell him to go back. He goes back and sure enough he sees Trayvon and calls NEN.

          There are still some things unexplained, like what gz did that so quickly let Trayvon know gz was following him. But, what ever it was it had to be very concerning. Something like throwing his high beams on Trayvon in the mail kiosk, or harassing him with his flashlight or anything like that.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I am referring to the u-turns picked up by the clubhouse security cameras.

    • Shari says:


      This case has gone on long enough. Time for GZ to stand up in court and explain why he followed and killed an unarmed child. He has waived his pre trial immunity hearing. One would think that an innocent man wouldn’t want his life hanging in the balance. If I were him I would want a conclusion one way or the other. Explain to a jury of your peers and the world your actions.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        It would basically amount to a near confession because the prosecution would rip him a new one.

      • groans says:

        GET IN THE BOX, killer-boy!

        (Credit for the theme goes to Romaine.)

      • Christopher Charles says:

        “…an innocent man wouldn’t want his life hanging in the balance…Explain to a jury of your peers and the world your actions.” gz isn’t innocent so he has a difficult task ahead of him: “explain(ing) why he followed and killed an unarmed child.”

        I hope the TV cameras are aimed on him as he shimmyskips to the vehicle that transports him to the custody of the Florida Department of Corrections.

        • Cuffed beside Ramrod Jenkins………..

          • cielo62 says:

            “Ramrod Jenkins”: catchy name, ennit? 😉

            Sent from my iPod

          • fauxmccoy says:

            i think we should change ramrod’s last name to ‘johnson’ for obvious reasons 🙂

            yeah, i’m bad … i’m nation-wide 🙂

          • Nationwide huh?…..See Ya in La Grange 🙂

          • fauxmccoy says:


            sure thing, buddy 🙂 i’ll let you know next time i’m passing through.

          • racerrodig says:

            Ramrods Johnson ?? or Johnson (,) Ramrods Fogen. Either way, it’s a winner.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            romantic dinner music … a little springsteen, “we’ll go ramrodding tonight” 🙂

          • racerrodig says:

            Love the new avatar !! Yep…..and I can hear Fogen in prison.

            “…, warden……this is Cheorge again….and, um, well there’s a lot of suspicious guys here……I don’t know what their deal is, but damn, they’re comin’ to check me out……!!”

          • fauxmccoy says:

            thanks, man on the avatar thing. it’s great having graphic artists as friends.

            up until today, i have taken the high road on the prison rape jokes, because i absolutely do not condone such things. i just could not help my self when i thought of ‘ramrod johnson’, the defendant and a little springsteen. now, i will stop.

          • racerrodig says:

            I just said Fogen’s about to make new friends !!! Really….

          • cielo62 says:

            Faux McCoy- I think the original “Ramrod” joke was from the UK (Lonnie?) but I liked it. But for the States, yeah. Ramrod Johnson actually sounds real.

            Sent from my iPod

      • looolooo says:

        mmp…. i’ll bet ole Ramrod’s gonna mentor fogen all right.

    • LeaNder says:

      wow, that’s good news, groans.

      This is quite interesting in the motion filed by media, Southern Girl linked to above:

      Anonymous Jurors

      Defendant has filed a Motion For Anonymous Jury (the “Motion). It is not clear what exactly, Defendant seeks through the Motion.

      Additionally, Defendant has not come forward with any evidence establishing – or even suggesting – that jurors will face intimidation or harrassment if their names are released upon being impaneled or discharged, or who might attempt to intimidate to harrass them. In fact, and has been previously noted by the Court, the passion that this case has stirred in the community has been expressed in peaceful, non-violent ways.There simply is no basis for an order permently withholding jurors names and information from the press and public.

      Reminds of of the dire threat of race riots many were oh so concerned about, e.g. my former military intelligence “blog friend” and George Zimmerman supporter, who stopped being a friend over Trayvon Martin.

      • Nef05 says:

        O’Mara threw out the riot card during the hearing. He used a dogwhistle to do it. Nevertheless, his meaning was clear.

  39. amsterdam1234 says:

    According to TL, the docket shows the defense filed a 4th supplemental, but no sign of it on the website.


    Click to access media_companies_brief.pdf

  41. Malamiyya says:

    Stately McDaniel says of Judge Nelson, “Her inexplicable reluctance to sanction de la Rionda for repeated, indisputable and egregious misconduct, including lies to the court–a matter that usually draws the wrath of any judge–is very hard to understand.”

    At the same time, and addressing the same matter, Professor Leatherman says, “Judge Nelson should sanction O’Mara for filing the motion for sanctions in bad faith. … She should find him in contempt and assess a financial penalty.”

    Me, I’m waiting to see what will happen next.

    And before I forget, the person who signs himself Aussie here is someone whose comments I look for and value for their perception and good sense. But lately I’ve been running into comments that I don’t value nearly so much signed Aussie (with a white pussycat avatar) at Stately McDaniel Manor and Last Refuge. I might even go so far as to say that there is a conflict between the two lines of comment. I’d be relieved to know that there are two Aussies with an interest in this case. Can the Aussie who posts here sort this out for me?

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      Aussie uses Aussiekay as his wordpress handle, without an avatar. He may use Aussie on this blog because you don’t need to sign in on your wordpress account, but in that case it wouldn’t have an avatar. That’s how you can keep them apart.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Ha – MIke, barely Michael and his motley crew. 😀

    • Jun says:

      Simply claiming something does not mean it occurred

      Seriously, what proof do they have?

      She dont have to do a bloodclot thing she does not want to, especially since the statutes stated that the State did nothing wrong

      The video issue? It’s written in the criminal and civil procedures that any manner of a deposition being taken can be objected and disputed then and there, even at the deposition

      The cell phone crap? They got the raw data a long time ago and were invited to go to FDLE and ask for anything they wanted, baring objection from FDLE besides the fact that Omara twisted, lied, and falsely presented information and was also not supposed to leak most of it anyways

      The dee dee issue? They were told repeatedly and had since April of last year to depose her and they were never barred from deposing her and she was the source of the information, not the State

      They got everything and more…

  42. Malisha says:

    I believe I remember Judge Nelson making an initial ruling in that hearing about whether O’Mara could subpoena school records and stuff in which she cited a Florida case that said in a self-defense claim, under FL law, a reputation about a victim being violent WAS admissible even if the defendant did not know about it. I think, however, that there was no EVIDENCE in the school records that the victim WAS violent.

    Thus, this crap is NOT evidence that Trayvon WAS violent. There was — in Judge Nelson’s opinion — no evidence of Trayvon’s “violence” in the stuff received after all those subpoenas.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      This is evidence of the level of ethics that the defense team and their supporters embrace.

    • pat deadder says:

      Mr Crump said on Piers Morgan last night with omara listening He said ”We are lawyers we know what admissible evidence is and Mr omara knew what he presented in court was not admissible and that he just wanted prejudice the jury.

  43. Ty Flair says:

    I could not wait for this trail to start,but to be honest I’m so dam nervous I know the evidence is on our side. What O’Mara just did was a low blow,and he know that. I hope we get to hear or see the question the juror have to answer.

  44. fauxmccoy says:

    meandering in the same direction

  45. George Zimmerman’s attorney Mark O’Mara will appear tonight on MSNBC PoliticsNation with Rev Al.

    This should be good!

  46. Malisha says:

    This crap O’Mara and West are selling is NOT “bad character evidence” against Trayvon Martin. It’s “dumb idiotic high-school-gossip-type-smear tactics tinged with racist-bigotry-paranoia-laced-bullshit evi-dunce” and it is full of sound and fury signifying NOTHING.

    They have NOTHING.
    NOTHING that IS admissible and even
    NOTHING that is INadmissible

    They have NOTHING.

    Remember: “If the law is against you pound on the facts; if the facts are against you pound on the law; if everything is against you pound on the table.” They are pounding on a table they are trying to build out of virtual unreality. BOOM BOOM BOOM.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      OM may as well stand in court and in all his news interviews and say nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah. That’s about how mature all this nonsense was. And he does it all with a smirk too. : /

  47. bettykath says:

    oops. Malisha’s translation:

    “Hey wait a minute, DeeDee, don’t tell me there’s a loaded gun lying around; you be CAREFUL, you know — where there are guns there is danger.” To me, it’s a cautious kid saying “watch out for guns!”

    • Two sides to a story says:

      That’s exactly the way I read it when I saw it. I can’t believe how cavalierly OM and the Treestump have skewed these texts.

    • LeaNder says:

      Betty, Amsterdam already started this type of work, at about the same time I started it myself over here for my own database.

      Defense has a strategic distributive advantage it seems. I supposed they have uncensored files.

      This is interesting in our context, check google how many do exacty what Turley does, attribute something to Trayvon he did not text, the infamous “Naw I am a gangsta” statement, used all over the place to make look Trayvon bad, also picked up by Turley:

      Jonathan Turley: His friend responds “So you just turning into a lil hoodlum.” Martin responds “Naw, I’m a gangsta.”

      Not true, Professor Turley! The real exchange:

      Trayvon: Da police caught me outta skool
      Read: Lol really dude?
      Trayvon: Yea</b
      Read: So you just turning into a lil hoodlum
      Trayvon: No not at all
      Read: Yes
      Trayvon: U a hoodlum
      Read: Naw I’m a gangsta
      Trayvon:….lol u soft
      Read: Boy don’t get one planted in ya chest
      Trayvon: Lol Im scared

      The more important question may well be, since exactly the same or almost the same passage is used all over the web, but mainly attributed in exactly the same way. Who triggered this passage. It wasn’t Rene Stutzman this time, it feels. Are they all relying on some type of PR release?

      The last time I noticed this coordinated agenda settting news business, was, when Stutzman triggered the same passage with O’Mara’s comment concerning the “over a million” settlement by Trayvon’s family with HOA all over the States.

      Could there be more to the media inquiry section on than just the interface for media inquiries we are shown? E.g. a regular news release accompanying special events? Which takes care that news get a certain bend?

      I have to shut up again, for today. Something else to finish. 😉

    • Unabogie says:

      Thanks for that. That’s the first time I read that in context and you’re right, he was definitely not asking her to get a gun for HIM. Is that really the only text message like that?

    • cielo62 says:

      ESPECIALLY the caution that “bullets don’t have eyes.” Yes, he was giving a word of warning.

  48. bettykath says:

    What’s even more despicable about what MOM released is that it’s all out of context and the meaning spun. LeaNder posted the texts on the Turley blog (maybe here too) that suggest to me that the gun sequence was about Trayvon and DeeDee both being concerned about her mother’s gun.

    What LeaNder posted:

    Trayvon: Wydd??
    read: getting my Mama really for a fight.
    Trayvon: You dad gf cumn ova??
    Trayvon: U got heat??
    Trayvon: U got heat??
    read: bae I’m *** we crazy she got her guns
    Trayvon: U got heat??
    read: No
    Trayvon: _ Bae bullets dnt hav eyes
    read: O aigh
    Trayvon: Umhmm im tryna tell u
    read: wat
    Trayvon: Ntn b safe man
    Trayvon: U gotta gun??
    read: it my mommy but she buy it for me
    Trayvon: She let u hold it??
    read: yea
    Trayvon: But she keep it??
    read: yea

    Malisha’s translation: (her translation is so much better than my comment, as usual)

    Trayvon: Wydd??
    read: getting my Mama really for a fight.
    Trayvon: You dad gf cumn ova??
    Trayvon: U got heat??
    Trayvon: U got heat??
    read: bae I’m *** we crazy she got her guns
    Trayvon: U got heat??
    read: No
    Trayvon: _ Bae bullets dnt hav eyes
    read: O aigh
    Trayvon: Umhmm im tryna tell u
    read: wat
    Trayvon: Ntn b safe man
    Trayvon: U gotta gun??
    read: it my mommy but she buy it for me
    Trayvon: She let u hold it??
    read: yea
    Trayvon: But she keep it??
    read: yea

    • OMG! Don’t tell me these are the tweets O’Mara is talking about? GTFOOH, Mark O’Mara

    • Malisha says:

      My translation:

      Trayvon: What are you up to?
      DD: Seems like my mom is getting really mad, ready for a fight!
      TM: Your dad’s girlfriend going to come over and cause a scene? Hey — you folks have a gun over there? … Hey is there a gun there? … You got a gun?
      DD: This is driving me crazy; she has a gun!
      TM: WHO has a gun, YOU?
      DD: No, not me.
      TM: That’s still dangerous — “bullets don’t have eyes” you know!
      DD: [something internet that I don’t understand]
      TM: I’m trying to tell you that.
      DD: What?
      TM: Be safe. Be careful. You have a gun?
      DD: My mom got the gun “for” me — but she has it.
      TM: She let you hold it?
      DD: Yeah.
      TM: But then she took it back?
      DD: Yeah.

  49. Two sides to a story says:

    A bit off-topic, but a good illustration of police power out of control with a possible issue of race

    • Cercando Luce says:

      The boy was unclothed to the waist, just like you’d expect at the beach. Why are these deputized policemen terrorizing beachgoers? I noticed the boy has milk on his chest– from the puppy bottle?

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Boy oh boy, if there was ever someone who the CIA interrogation teams need to learn this skill from, he is it. Just imagine being able to dehumanize someone with a simple stare? Wow, when it comes to offensive resources blacks seem to have it all.

        Deadly 17 year olds armed with candy and tea, and now they’re capable of dehumanizing stares at age 14. OMG, Hopefully the City of Miami will follow up with these cops by DePolicifying them!

    • ic2fools says:

      Thanks Two sides….

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        My my such sensitive police. Could this be the result of sensitivity training gone wrong? Police now need to be trained to handle the dirty looks of children? Or, could it just be that their is something mentally wrong with these policemen? They certainly don’t appear to be able to exercise good judgement. Just a moment, let me check something… NOPE, I can’t find a single statue that criminalizes dirty or “dehumanizing” looks.

    • parrot says:

      Thanks Two Sides …

  50. PYorck says:

    What would be the standard for such sanctions? Could Judge Nelson essentially sanction him at her own discretion as long as she is covinced that he deserves it?

    • Yes, she has the inherent power to control what happens in her courtroom, so she could find him in contempt and assess a financial penalty.

      • JustMe says:

        IMO, you left out one item that was clearly another mission of O’Mara’s. He intentionally and recklessly released inadmissible “stuff” clearly knowing he would raise funds by putting a false premise on the victim.

        He raised 12K in one day. He’s a sick calculated SOB!

      • JustMe says:

        Question. Does BDLR have to bring sanctions or can Judge Nelson put forth sanctions on her own?

        • Judge Nelson can act on her own, but she has to do it in a way that does not make her vulnerable to a motion to recuse.

          • JustMe says:

            How does a judge carefully impose sanctions? But, I don’t think even if Nelson carefully imposes sanctions it would stop O’Mara from trying to recuse her.

          • racerrodig says:

            I believe he’d never succeed. Every ruling she made is backed by the law and precedent…..O’ Mara is a desperate Phoole.

            His defense never even existed for that matter. is he so blind that he never thought of Alternate Plan “B”…..which should have been the primary plan……”tell the truth….it’s not that hard to remember”

            I’d bet if he even said the gun went off by accident in a sincere way from day one, he would have had a better chance than an M2 conviction.

          • “I’d bet if he even said the gun went off by accident in a sincere way from day one, he would have had a better chance than an M2 conviction.”

            Not that it would have made the end result any better……..It sure as hell would have been more reasonable to believe…than the BS he’s been spewing…

            What ever happened to jumping from the bushes and being cold cocked without warning?….haven’t heard that one in awhile…..

            Or is that gonna change to “he skipped from the bushes….did a pirouette….and punched me in the nose…..WHICH BTW required a knuckle bandage to treat”

          • racerrodig says:

            Fogen “….um, and that’s when he started flicking Skittles at me…..I was in reasonable fear for my life”

            BDLR “Excuse me, the bag of Skittles was not even opened”

            Fogen “There was one”

          • Next time I go to town, I’ll pick up a few bags and do some tests firing Skittles from my Wrist Rocket………

      • Two sides to a story says:

        A 12k sanction is in order, no? Perhaps one that matches an entire week of donatons. 😀

      • Deborah says:

        @Professor Leatherman:

        Professor. I sent an e0mail to the Florida Bar Association about the tactics of MOM and his side kick and how despicable they both are for releasing information which is inadmissable. It is reprehensible what he did. To smear a dead kid to raise money? All MOM talks about is money, but not what transpired on the night of 2/26/12!

      • Jun says:

        They have lots of proof of Omara’s acts

        They should just sanction him and state the reasons and then not give an opinion

  51. MichelleO says:

    Unfortunately, in America, the historic and systemic meme for blacks in mainstream media, has always been that of a violent and beastly people.

    Even when there are such excellent people at the top of their game, such as President Barack Obama and his most excellent First Lady, Michelle, the American media is still complicit in exploiting black people as a separate sub-human species not deserving life or respect.

  52. disappointed says:

    It is obvious they have to smear Trayvon because there is no defense for a child killer like Z. If he is broke return him to jail. When did America start donating to child killers willingly? MOM is disgusting.

    • MichelleO says:

      I recently read that during the Emmitt Till case, that there were donations jars for the murderers in barber shops, grocery stores, etc. This was done even though everyone knew that the killing done for racial reasons and was premeditated.

      So, this case does not set the historical precedent in America’s sad racial history.

      • It was doing a good deed for the klan sponsored boy scout troops of the day…..just sayin’

      • Rachael says:

        Yep – no different than setting up begging sites on the internet. So disgusting, so very disgusting.

      • Deborah says:


        My mom who was a young teen then, told me all about the way Emmett Till’s death was treated by the racists whites back then. in Mississippi. it was amazing that Mrs. Mamie TIll Mobley was able to make enough noise so that the DOJ investigated the murder and these sub-humans racists men were arrested, but Mom said that she knew then, that they would get off. An all white jury, who were their friends and all racists just like the killers?? Despicable, however, the killers suffered horrible painful deaths. GOOD to know that they suffered after murdering a 14 year old kid!

  53. racerrodig says:


    I see the defense trying to validate Fogen and his NEN call and it looks like they propped Taaffe up Tuesday night who said Trayvon was looking in all his windows. Why is this said for the 1st time now. Since they are so detail oriented, why didn’t anyone say that before.

    Fogen will now claim Trayvon was suspicious because Taaffe said he. not Fogen, saw him looking into windows….allegedly.

    This follows the minute THC level being grounds for Fogen being justified after the fact ??

    Not happening in my opinion.

    • PYorck says:

      Would that be the same Taaffe who wasn’t at home when it happened, only later when the neighborhood was lit up “like a christmas tree”?

    • ic2fools says:

      All the defense validated is that it was Taaffe who called Fogen about Trayvon. Exactly what we all discussed earlier on in the case beginning.

      So what Taaffe is coming clean now about his involvement? He knows Fogen cell records of 2/26 will prove without a doubt it was his call that began this tragedy. Unlike Fogen on GPS, Taaffee may bolt when he realizes he could catch a accessory case.

    • Jun says:

      I looked at the video

      Taffe simply said he walked on the grass looked, then walked down the street and was looking at his windows while walking

      The GPS records should be fun, as well as his history of stalking

  54. Rachael says:

    He basically came right out and said it himself. He said he knew that it wouldn’t be admissible. He then went on to say that because of that, he had to get it out there somehow.

    He did? Why?

    We know why.

    He’s a disgusting puke.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Cuz it got him 12k in a few days, polluted the jury pool, and gave a false perception of Trayvon to the public.

      If OM is not sanctioned, then he’s sure getting away with a big stinking pile of barf and poop, legally speaking.

      But spiritually speaking, I have great faith in karmic justice and God’s plan.

      • tinytruthseeker says:

        One of the things that makes me really angry is that O’Smeara isn’t just working overtime to Lie about who Trayvon was but it seems to me that this kind of whining and succeeding in getting the MSM to follow his whining can also make prospective jurors wonder about Bernie…. Maybe get some prospective juror to go into the trial already thinking Bernie is a cheat and a liar…. Really makes me mad…. and it is why I think Judge Nelson SHOULD sanction O’Smeara on the spot!!!

      • Christopher Charles says:

        So do I.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          I hope the judge, hears these motions after trial, so that O’Mara can’t use them to his advantage. Then she should make him hand over those fund raising records and set the fines 50% higher than that. Making a nice little hole is MOM’s finances.

      • hotheadpaisen says:

        Well that’s a great point. He Didn’t just Release that inadmissible information about Trayvon to poison the jury pool. He did it to rile his base up, knowing he would then beg them for more money,which he immediately got. And we know he uses some of this money for himself (as $40,000 in office upgrades will attest to). so now we got a defense attorney releasing confidential, personal, and erroneous information about the decedent, for his own personal gain. How can this NOT be answered with a smack down from the court??!

    • Trained Observer says:

      Rachael — This entire senseless murder is a puke-a-rama.

    • heartofheart says:

      They are on such shaky ground their only defense is to attack the victim. So very pathetic.

  55. I hope O’mara finds himself in the company of Hal Uhrig, gz’s former attorney who has been suspended by the Florida Bar for 60 days!

  56. From the desk of
    Paddy O’Furniture

    Aye Lad….’twould be nice to see o’mara’s wee balls in a wee vise..

  57. SoulSistaWoo says:

    should read… and West takes notice and stops his disrespect of the court.

  58. SoulSistaWoo says:

    Follow and I hope she does FINALLY put an end to his antics and West takes notice and stops the his disrespect of the court.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      I doubt that the court will consider sanctions in the midst of working our way to trial, to much chance negative remarks can be used to tarnish the judge, by O’Mara, ala Lester.

      I think the motion will be held until after the trial, when the judge can feel free to excoriate both defense attorney’s and sanction them for their conduct. Just my guess.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        lonnie says

        I think the motion will be held until after the trial, when the judge can feel free to excoriate both defense attorney’s and sanction them for their conduct. Just my guess.

        i agree completely. i’m drawing a mental blank at the moment, but there was a previous motion for sanctions against the state which nelson delayed ruling upon until after trial. she is smart to have done so and i hope she will consider the same for the defense. doing so allows the trial to progress with no prejudice by the jury pool or grounds for appeal.

      • ic2fools says:


      • Trained Observer says:


      • towerflower says:


    • cielo62 says:

      No, SoulSistaWoo! I say SLAM MOM’s head on some serious sanctions! What a slime and a disgrace to the profession.

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