Mark O’Mara engineers snipe hunt to avoid responsibility for publicizing irrelevant evidence

Wednesday, May 29, 2013

Good afternoon:

NBC News reported late yesterday:

A Florida judge ruled Tuesday that George Zimmerman’s defense team cannot mention Trayvon Martin’s suspension from school, prior marijuana use, text messages or past fighting during opening statements at next month’s trial.

Judge Debra Nelson said that during the trial she will consider motions to admit details as evidence on a case-by-case basis, outside the presence of jurors who will decide if Zimmerman is guilty of second-degree murder in the shooting death of Martin.

Although this statement is technically correct, it also is misleading because Judge Nelson actually concluded that the evidence was irrelevant and inadmissible. That is why she granted the State’s motion in limine to prohibit the defense from mentioning any of those things during jury selection and opening statement.

The only reason she might change her mind is if the State were to open the door by introducing evidence of good character. That is not going to happen because Trayvon’s character, whether good or bad, is not an issue in this case. BDLR has no reason to introduce evidence of good character and I am certain that he was not planning on doing that because he knows that good character evidence is irrelevant. Since the defense cannot rebut something that does not happen, the jury will not hear any of this information.

That is not the end of the story, however, because the irrelevant information in question was obtained from Trayvon Martin’s phone and it is the subject of a defense motion for sanctions and request for a judicial inquiry that Judge Nelson has scheduled for June 6th, the same day as the Frye hearing regarding the admissibility of expert testimony identifying the person who uttered the terrified death shriek.

I do not believe Judge Nelson is going to find that BDLR withheld evidence from the defense. The evidence was recorded on Trayvon’s phone in binary code and a copy of that raw data was disclosed to the defense sometime in late January. O’Mara did not hire an expert or purchase a software program that can translate that code into plain English.

A few weeks ago, O’Mara was contacted by an attorney who represents Ben Kruibdos, the Director of Information Technology for the Fourth Judicial Circuit. The attorney is Wesley White.

The Miami Herald reports:

White led the Nassau County state attorney’s office before resigning in December, citing differences of opinion with Corey. He is now in private practice.

White said the photos Kruidbos retrieved were of a hand holding a gun and one depicted drugs. The content of the text messages wasn’t specified.

“I’m an officer of the court and I’m obliged to inform the court of any misconduct or any potential misconduct coming before the court. Whether it’s by the defense or prosecution,” White said.

Apparently, Kruibdos extracted the two photographs and possibly the text messages from the binary code and gave them to BDLR who did not pass them on to O’Mara.

Does that constitute a discovery violation or a tempest in a teapot?

I believe it is a tempest in a teapot, so long as BDLR turned over the raw data.

Judge Nelson has already ruled that the evidence is not relevant or admissible and it certainly is not exculpatory.

We will have to wait and see how the hearing turns out, but this looks like another snipe hunt instigated by O’Mara to distract everyone from holding him accountable for publicly disclosing information that should not have been disclosed.

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315 Responses to Mark O’Mara engineers snipe hunt to avoid responsibility for publicizing irrelevant evidence

  1. charlieh says:

    Hello All-

    Let me start by say to Mr. Leatherman: I enjoy the site and the analysis which you bring to the case.

    I have three questions regarding this whole cell phone data kerfuffle:

    1) If the prosecution withheld the cell phone data, then how did O’Mara end up with all those photos and texts that he posted online? Isn’t the fact that the defense had this information in their possession proof that the prosecution turned it over to them?

    2) Upon rewatching the April 30th hearing, although it is made clear that the prosecution had previously turned over the raw cell phone data to the defense, de la Rionda also explicitly claims in response to a question from Judge Nelson he had no further information regarding that data beyond what had already been disclosed. While I think the disclosure of the raw data covers any alleged discovery violations, is de la Rionda in any danger of sanctions if it is determined he did in fact receive additional information, regardless of its exculpatory nature? I agree this whole thing is a snipe hunt, but I’d hate to see the defense score points over a semantic issue.

    3) Anyone see a link to Orlando Sentinel from last night that indicated the alleged video of Martin recording his friends beating a homeless man had been released? This was the tease to the story: “Video released today by George Zimmerman’s trial attorneys depicts what they say is Trayvon Martin laughing while he video-records a fight between two homeless men. It shows something far different than what defense attorney Mark O’Mara described …”. However, the link leads to nowhere! And a search of the Sentinel’s site yields no results for that story. Very frustrating, because it appears O’Mara and team were lying in open court about what the video depicted.

    Thank to anyone who can help with these questions, and keep up the good work Mr. Leatherman!

    -Charlie

  2. Malisha says:

    What has been yet ANOTHER elephant in the Fogen Room is the idea, spread by the defense and the Outhouse (which both smell the same to our “sniffing dogs”) is the idea that RTL was Fogen’s TURF and he had a right to keep Trayvon Martin OFF “his” turf by any means necessary.

    Strangely, the subtle apologists who have been holding up Fogen without realizing how inappropriate their illogical “false equivalencies” are have no problem identifying this kind of thing as wrongful when it is done by REAL authorities such as courts and police. They just find it OK to excuse this same conduct because it was done by a person WITHOUT official authority acting on his own impulses. That is, these same folks (Dersh, Turley, Jeralyn) would be horrified if a cop had shot and killed Trayvon Martin that night having only found him to be “suspicious” and they would be calling for prosecution to the utmost and a national upheaval.

    Look, for instance, at this:

    http://jonathanturley.org/2013/05/30/texas-court-declares-over-dozens-individuals-public-nuisances-and-bars-them-from-neighborhood/#more-64921

    Professor Turley clearly identifies the wrongness of official decisions that certain people NOT CHARGED WITH CRIMES are to be prevented from being where other certain people do not want them.

    Hello, hello, hello!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Indeed. And these are the very same folks who, when Fogen is convicted, will howl about railroading and the “BGI”. They talk about how they only follow the evidence and facts of the case but seem to not grasp many of these facts and ignore evidence they don’t like.

      • They’re also good at plain making shit up……Read the other day about Trayvon’s swollen knuckles………..And then about him being involved in beating up a homeless man….

        OH ….and he’s still 6’3″ 189lbs

        Where do these people come from?…….Is this shit is an indication on how these people perceive reality?…….What do they do for a living?

        • racerrodig says:

          “…What do they do for a living?”

          Don’t know for sure but every time I tell a Zidiot he has a flat tire on his house, I never get a denial, hell……….I don’t even get a reply back. Most have at least one flat and 2 burned out tail lights. Some even have a rusty hitch !!

  3. Ty Flair says:

    Did anyone else catch what the State said at the hearing,they said O’mara wanted that expert voice witness first but did not like what he had to say about the voices on the 911 calls. Now O’Mara is trying to make this expert witness look bad. What O’Mara is saying if you are not on my side I will try to destroy your reputation.

  4. Tomorrow’s hearing in Sanford in the George Zimmerman case has been canceled.

    Media agrees not to photograph George Zimmerman jurors at trial

    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-trial-hearing-canceled-20130530,0,5962020.story

    On Tuesday a lawyer for several media companies, including The New York Times, CBS News, NBCUniversal and The Miami Herald, indicated they’d fight for the right to photograph jurors, something Circuit Judge Debra S. Nelson said she would prohibit.

    She then ordered attorneys back to court tomorrow to discuss the dispute, but the media group lawyer, Scott Ponce, today filed paperwork, saying there was no dispute, that his clients would abide by a ban, provided it applied only to the courtroom and ended when the trial concludes.

    Rachel Fugate, an attorney for The Orlando Sentinel, wrote a letter to the judge today, echoing that sentiment.

    Both attorneys, though, object to another request by Zimmerman’s attorneys – that the names of jurors be kept secret.

    Defense attorney Mark O’Mara asked for that, saying he’s afraid journalists and others might hound panel members

    Fugate on Tuesday said the judge could, for a time, withhold from the public the names of jurors but could not make it permanent.

    In paperwork filed with the court today, Ponce agreed.

    Nelson on Tuesday ordered attorneys and court personnel to refer to potential jurors only number once the trial starts June 10. She did not make a final decision.

  5. Trained Observer says:

    Yesterday, Zimmerman’s lawyers announced they had run out of money and made a plea via the Internet for $120,000 in donations. Today they announced that donors had already responded with $12,000 in gifts. — Orlando Sentinel

    Wonder if this gift grab total is even remotely true …

    • It’s for the FFF

      fogen food fund……………………….

    • ay2z says:

      I posted a link to the complete hearing, by user Trayvon George on Youtube.

      Now I find that this youtube user, has a caption on a video with the message to support the gz legal defense fund with url. Viewers can click the ‘z’ to remove the message during the video playback, so it’s not part of the video itself, but added.

      Trayvon George appears to be a GZ legal affiliate. And hwo knows if somehting is edited out, could well be, in the hearings videos.

      Here’s an example of the support caption–

      • Malisha says:

        Oh well Dersh has been a little more careful here than previously, perhaps trying to salvage his reputation. “Let’s say Trayvon was beating Fogen to death” is a silly comment for him to make. Go ahead and say it, big-mouth. Can you imagine there’s any way the defense can try to get your “let’s say” into evidence?

        He then goes on to say that even if Fogen was “wrong” to start with, his big “let’s say” about Trayvon being about to kill Fogen would kick in to excuse Fogen’s kill shot? Uh… Dersh says, as if he were the judge and jury in this case, “The law says it was [OK for Fogen to kill Trayvon Martin].” As if that’s fact.

        It is not fact.

        In fact, that would mean that an armed person could start a battle of any kind with an unarmed person and at the point when the armed person chose to feel that his life was in danger, he could kill and get away with it.

        Let’s see how that would work.

        Guy approaches a woman for a wrong reason. Let’s say he just wants sex with her and she doesn’t want sex with him. Let’s say his wrong reason makes him grab her and throw her on the ground and rip off her clothes. Let’s say she’s trained in self-defense and she throw him OFF HER and gains the upper hand and he realizes she’s really GOOD at her self-defense and she might kill him. He’s free to shoot her dead, right?

        Try again Dersh. We’re not going for that one on the basis of “the law says” — we say, instead, “I think we’ll wait for the movie.”

    • bettykath says:

      Solution:

      optimize assets – Fogen goes back to jail thereby freeing up bail money

      cut costs – rent, ankle bracelet, food, other security

      • Nef05 says:

        While it may cut costs, it won’t free up the bail money. Fogen did not pay a cash bond. He paid 10%, which is the bondsman’s fee and non-refundable. That money is gone.

        His family would get their secured assets back, but whether they would mortgage or secure loans with them to fund his defense, given they can count as well as anyone else, and know how he blew through the almost half mil he already had, is an open question. Though it’s doubtful they could do it fast enough to make a difference, unless they went to CA$HCALL, or some such loan entity.

        • racerrodig says:

          I’m thinking he and SheLie don’t really “comparative shop” like I do. You know, look at the left side of the marker on the shelf for that item that says “Price per lb, oz. gal” etc.

          “Oh look pookie…..this frozen pizza is $26.35 !!

          “Great, make sure it has extra…um, everything”

          “And don’t forget those Johnsonville Brats”

          “Okay……and Brownies……make sure you get at least 6 or so of those 2 pounders”

      • bettykath says:

        I forgot that the 10% was non-refundable. My bad.

        He still could cut expenses.

      • tinytruthseeker says:

        Bail money is not released ever…. Zimmerfool has donated that $100,000.00 to the bailbondsmans put my kids through college fund!

      • cielo62 says:

        Bettykath/ bail money is gone. It will never be returned. It’s the bondsman’s fee. However, GZ could indeed save significant funds on food alone.

        Sent from my iPod

    • Rachael says:

      Yesterday they were out of money, put a plea out on the internet and now have $12,000.00??

      That does it. I’m putting up a begsite for me.

      • Homer already did it with the autodialer….

        “Send one dollar to Happy Guy”

        • racerrodig says:

          It’s BS. They are back to the “Goooooo with a winner” crap.

          • BTW Race……..greaser car nut………… 🙂

            Why was lovers lane called Firestone Blvd. back in the day?

          • racerrodig says:

            If my Hot Rod memory serves me correctly, there is a highway in the L. A. area that is remote and it crosses Firestone Blvd. I don’t belive Firestone Tires have anything to do with it however.
            But becasue this is remote, the young un’s would go there and watch the “Submarine Races”

            There may be other Firestone Lanes, but I vaguley remember hearing this like 35 or so years ago.

          • “The name that’s known is Firestone……Where the rubber meets the road”

            Yeah sub races too………….good times 🙂

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I believe they’re accurate – I see no reason for GZLC to pad numbers. Fogen supporters are posting and reposting the link to the defense fund like crazy this week. However, the site was down yesterday with excess bandwith – don’t know whether too much access, but could also have been a DOD attack. THey’ve had some DOD attacks in the past. The site was down late last night Pacific time but is up this AM.

    • racerrodig says:

      It’s not. Once again they’re doing that “Go with a winner” thing.

  6. Judge wants four alternate jurors for George Zimmerman trial

    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/os-george-zimmerman-trial-jury-selection-20130529,0,2098457.story

    SANFORD – Six jurors will decide whether George Zimmerman is guilty of second-degree murder, but during jury selection at his trial, attorneys will pick a panel of 10, four of them alternates, according to Seminole County Clerk of Courts Maryanne Morse.

    Normally at a second-degree murder trial attorneys pick six jurors and two alternates, but in this case Circuit Judge Debra S. Nelson is apparently building in extra protection by adding more alternates.

    They typically sit in the jury box with other jurors and listen to the evidence then are released when the others go into a closed room and begin deliberations.

    But they’re sometimes called to step in if a juror is unable to finish the job, for example if he gets sick or is kicked off the panel for violating one of the judge’s rules, such as discussing the case with someone or surfing the Internet for news accounts of what happened.

    Zimmerman’s trial begins June 10 at the Seminole County criminal courthouse. He’s the 29-year-old former Neighborhood Watch volunteer who killed Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black 17-year-old, Feb. 26, 2012, in Sanford.

    Prosecutors say Zimmerman is guilty of profiling Trayvon, assuming he was about to commit a crime, following and murdering him.

    Zimmerman says he shot the Miami Gardens teenager in self-defense.

    Yesterday, Zimmerman’s lawyers announced they had run out of money and made a plea via the Internet for $120,000 in donations. Today they announced that donors had already responded with $12,000 in gifts.

    As for jury selection, the judge asked Morse to summon 500 potential jurors for the trial. Those jury service notices went into the mail May 1.

    All 500 people will not show up the first day of jury selection, Morse said. On Day 1 it will be 100 to 200 people, she said, and each day after that about 100 new prospective jurors.

    “The objective of the court is basically to spread them out over the five-day cycle,” Morse said.

    Potential jurors will be required to fill out a questionnaire then will be questioned individually, outside the earshot of other potential jurors.

    They’ll be asked about their jobs, family, experience with police and the court system and what they’ve heard about the case.

    Morse said she hopes jury selection can be completed during the first week. Defense attorney Mark O’Mara earlier predicted it would take two to three weeks.

  7. Tam Tyler says:

    If White was motivated to “do the right thing” by notifying the proper authorities as an officer of the court, why would he have contacted Mark O’Mara? Same with Kruidbos. If Kruidbos felt information was being withheld that should have been made public, he SHOULD have taken his grievance up with Rionda or Corey. Instead he hired a lawyer who also happened to have been a disgruntled ex-employee of Corey’s. That tells you his motives were not justice but retribution. And White should have notified the Court, not a defense attorney for the defendant. It seems like this is a smear campaign that’s designed to get maximum media coverage, tainting the jury pool with inadmissable evidence that otherwise never should have been in the public domain.

    • PiranhaMom says:

      @Tam Tyler –

      Re: “It seems like this is a smear campaign that’s designed to get maximum media coverage, tainting the jury pool with inadmissible evidence that otherwise never should have been in the public domain.”

      Exactly. And it is up to BDLR to decide if any of that was admissible, not Kruidbos, the IT guy. Kruidbos should have stuck to his technology, and let Bernie carry the legal load.

      That’s Bernie’s job.

  8. SearchingMind says:

    NO PROFESSIONAL MISCONDUCT

    “I’m an officer of the court and I’m obliged to inform the court of any misconduct or any potential misconduct coming before the court. Whether it’s by the defense or prosecution, White said.”

    Really? Mr. White?

    RULE 4-8.3(a) Florida Rules of Professional Conduct states as follows:
    “A lawyer who knows that another lawyer has committed a violation of the Rules of Professional Conduct that raises a substantial question as to that lawyer’s honesty, trustworthiness, or fitness as a lawyer in other respects shall inform the appropriate professional authority”.

    Let’s assume for the sake of argument that BDLR assumed that O’Mara, by requesting raw data, has the means to read raw data (as he should). Let’s also assume for the sake of argument that BDLR assumed that by providing O’Mara with the raw data as requested by O’Mara, he (BDLR) believed that he has provided every “information” to him (O’Mara) and as a result told the Court that he has not received additional information since then.

    The question that the arises is this one: ‘how in world does that constitute:
    (a) Professional Misconduct that raises
    (b) Substantial questions as to
    (c) BDLR’s honesty, trustworthiness, or fitness as a lawyer?

    There is no Misconduct of any kind and if there is any, it is not such that raises any question, let alone substantial question, as to BDLR’s honesty, trustworthiness, or fitness as a lawyer. I just can’t understand why someone of O’Mara’s age and experience turns every case into a personal witch hunt. I simply don’t understand all these petty bitterness.

    I predict that they who will ultimately suffer from this “tempest in the tea cup” are (a) Kruidbos and/or (b) Mr. White himself. Kruidbos may be excused for seeking legal advice. HOWEVER, if Mr. White talked to O’Mara with Kruidbos’ permission, he (Mr. Kruidbos) is in serious trouble. He will most likely be fired and the Whistleblower Act will not protect him (only specific information are protected by this act). If Mr. White talked to O’Mara without Kruidbos’ permission, he risks disbarment (for violating attorney-client privilege).

    • SearchingMind says:

      “White led the Nassau County state attorney’s office before resigning in December, citing differences of opinion with Corey. He is now in private practice.”

      The “resignation” may be a forced “resignation” and rooted in the Sexual Misconducts of Mr. White. What an irony.

      http://www.fbnewsleader.com/articles/2011/05/09/news/00newswrongfultermination.txt

    • Jun says:

      White is taking the high moral ground yet…

      says nothing about Fogen or Omara or West’s actions

      LOL

    • PiranhaMom says:

      @Searching –

      Have been looking forward to your comment on this latest hearing, Searcher, and it’s one nuclear missile. Wow!

      My take on this is that the IT guy Kruidbos was so thrilled to be able to “unlock the secrets” of Trayvon’s cellphone (or even be in the same room when the reports showed up) but as a technology guy, NOT as a prosecutor trained in the law, he ASSUMED what was there was “evidence” without a clue as to whether it would be ADMISSIBLE evidence, and he was SO ticked off (“ticked off” is not quite the phrase I’d like to use) that Bernie wouldn’t go for that nonsense. (There was, for example, no “exhibit” that showed up of Trayvon texting how he was going to lure the dopey Neighborhood Watchman into a brawl and beat the tar out of him.)

      Bernie may have been a little brusque with him, because likely Bernie suffers fools badly. Kruidbos was probably miffed that his new “legal insight” was being sloughed off.

      Looks like a case of “a little learning is a dangerous thing.” Kruidbos knew technology, but not the law. He did not want to accept Bernie’s viewpoint of what is “evidence” and what is not. The agreement not to exploit contents of cellphones meant nothing to Kruidbos.

      What he saw was the possibility of being a star, and when it didn’t happen, he turned rogue.

      Kinda like Zimmerman – supposed to be the Neighborhood “Watch” guy but that wasn’t enough to earn him hero status. So h turned rogue, chased down an imagined “suspect” who was really an unarmed juvenile minding his own business – and when the encounter didn’t yield Zimmerman “a collar,” he shot the kid.

      Two rogues don’t make a right.

      THANK YOU, Searcher!

    • KA says:

      I think Kruidbos was put on administrative leave not for consulting an attorney, I think for talking about confidential State matters to someone who was not entitled to know about them.

      I suspect he did not “hire” White, I suspect they gossiped, hated Corey mutually, and then cooked up this scheme to “get rid of her”.

      • KA says:

        An IT professional is qualified to determine if this was “evidence” or not. He was given directives for his job…find “X” on the cell phone…he took off pictures and revealed them externally and made his own unqualified judgement on what they were.

        He deserves to be fired. He would from ANY organization for that.

  9. Brandi, missouri says:

    Mr Leatherman,
    I read Trayvon’s text messages posted on the defense site. I understand that gz’s text messages had been pulled why haven’t they been published as well? BDLR had mentioned some nasty remarks about Trayvon’s dad and others on gz’s texts.
    I don’t think Trayvon’s texts prove anything I’m sure many parents have seen or heard their kids saying things they don’t do or mean to fit in especially teenagers. If one was to look at my sons Facebook or texts they would probably think he was straight hood when he is more like malibus most wanted.

  10. Surrealdreamer says:

    Ok I am a little bit confused as to what is going on. I just went over to the conservative nut house and was totally appalled at what these people are commenting. No one deserves to die the way Trayvon died. The nut house would beg to differ and they are blatantly stating it.

    This is the first time I have ever heard anything about Trayvon beating up a homeless guy, that is the big discussion over at the nut house. He was also supposedly friends with someone that killed their mother so Trayvons mother should realize how lucky she is that her thug son is dead because she might have been next. I am sorry but what the Hell?

    If Trayvon had beaten Fogen so bad why is there no Fogen DNA on Martin? That fact right there pretty much proved to me that this was a senseless Murder not a self defense killing.

    Those text released over the weekend, my first thought was they were talking about one of those fighting video games like UFC or whatever. I have 3 boys that have been playing those games since they were 16 and when talking to their friends online and through text it sounded just like they had beaten someone up. I freaked out and then was informed that they were talking about the Cage match in some stupid game.

    • Brandi, missouri says:

      I agree that is disgusting I don’t get how any texts or pics warrants him being murdered in such a brutal manner. I got the impression that he may have been referring to a game in a few texts as well.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        The texts on report 2, 3 and 6 are not from his phone. They are from social media sites and have not been authenticated as belonging to Trayvon.
        Same for some of the videos. O’Mara didn’t just put information out there that shouldn’t have been there, he put photos and texts out there claiming they are Trayvon or from Trayvon without being able to deliver any proof that that information is true.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Exactly, Amsterdam. He’s got a mix of stuff from the phone and stuff that the Treestump has promoted for over a year.

      • Brandi, missouri says:

        Amsterdam,
        Then how is he allowed to represent them as if they are truly his texts. I am not a lawyer but to me these actions just seem wrong on so many levels.

      • KA says:

        Amsterdam,

        I said the same thing. Many of those “texts” and pictures are NOT from his phone…but somehow they were represented that way. I was hoping for a BLDR “look I have jail tapes” smack down in the hearing last week on that….

    • SearchingMind says:

      What should be done?

      1. Trayvon’s parents can file a complaint with the Florida Bar against O’Mara and request for sanctions – including disbarment of O’Mara

      2. Organized groups could also start collecting signatures and petition the Florida Bar to investigate and sanction O’Mara – including disbarment of O’Mara. This is the kind of petition that make tangible difference.

      Anything short of the above would be just NOISE to the ears of a dishonest fellow who has already hardened his heart and blocked his ears, and is knowingly lying to the public. O’Mara & Co. intended to damage Trayvon, his family and “their handlers (?!!?)”. To a significant but irrelevant extent, O’Mara & Co. succeeded. If you are angry about what O’Mara did, then pls. organize, fight back and hit him where it hurts: take his license from him. This daily crying without really hitting back hard is getting me infuriated.

    • The people at the tree house are wasting time discussing irrelevant information that will never come up at the trial.

      • ay2z says:

        WFTV has two photos on their latest article, on of sheepish big fogen, and the other, Trayvon with his gold jewellery.

        That is making a point about each person, almost shifting the roles of killer and victim.

      • Malisha says:

        I think that’s a form of mental masturbation that the tree-slummers are comforting themselves with right now. Come to think of it, hatred and bigotry are well known dysfunctional self-comforters. Those who indulge in it (a) become addicted to it because it calms down their sense of outrage and anger (usually accumulated since their childhoods either due to abuse or other environmental causes) to be able to “offload” onto someone who can’t “offload back”; and it goes even further than pornography into (b) making them feel like the powerful people they are NOT.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      The Treestump goes temporarily insane several times a year with their paranoid and fanciful suppositions.

    • Jun says:

      It’s called lying

      It’s what the Tinfoil Hat are doing

      lying

      Let me guess they have a really blurry video from their “sources” or any other unauthenticated method they are using to claim it’s Trayvon

      2 can play at that game

      Fogen molested his cousin and tried to rape her

      Never mind, that’s not made up, it’s actually true

    • hotheadpaisen says:

      There was a mentally disturbed kid who went to Martin’s school who did indeed kill his mother. He was a year ahead of Trayvon and there is no evidence whatsoever that they knew each other. I don’t visit the ctreehouse, but many of their nuts post about that kid on Huff, and say he was Martins friend. Some of them use his face as their sock avatars. I’m always happy to help them get deleted. Utterly reprehensible individuals.

  11. ay2z says:

    Won’t the defense be allowed to call Witness 8 even if the state doesn’t and won’t they be able to break into the ‘good character’ ground with her fairly easily by going into areas of her phone conversations that night and going into the ‘anger’ or fight with her on the phone which she might want to deny or explain? Or otherwise prompt her to say something about Trayvon’s good character, nice person?

    Witness 8 was deposed for over a day, they must have found out how she felt about Trayvon.

  12. pat deadder says:

    Can I ask if JN can report omara and west to the Florida bar or sanction them or whatever the procedure is without doing it in the court room.

  13. smokeegyrl says:

    Thank you for explaining, I so appreciate it. I was worried about the case being dismissed. what bothers me the most is; why did White report it to the Defense Team? If I seen something wrong I would’ve gone to right authorities. Even though White had a problem with Corey, he should of gone to the Florida Attorney General’s office. I don’t understand why he went the way he did. This move to me looks like retaliation on his part against Corey. I don’t think he followed procedure for an attorney. Somebody needs to file a complaint against him through the Florida State Bar. But I may be thinking wrong.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Eh, there’s no way this case will be dismissed. Fogen supporters are dreamin’ large these past few days.

  14. ay2z says:

    Frank Taaffe is an expert in marijuana, THC addictions, other drugs. The defense had their expert all along.

    http://www.hlntv.com/video/2013/05/28/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-nancy-grace-defends-school-suspension

    • ic2fools says:

      LOL good one ay2z.

      Here’s proof of Taaffes’ experience in ‘swaying’ techniques:

      😛

      • ay2z says:

        Thanks for posting that, ic2,

        I’ shocked that Nancy Grace is still using this guy, and that they cut off their clip as she compliments Taaffe on his work with drug afflicted children.

        Taaffee diagnoses Trayvon as quote “going through withdrawal” that night and he cited the deposition of the toxicology state expert to support his theory, and he quoted from the autopsy about a ‘nano litre’ of blood drawn from Trayvon’s chest.

        What the hell? Nancy Grace scraping low for guests these days, and allowing them to run the show?

        • Wanna know why?

          $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

        • ic2fools says:

          Your welcome ayay2z.

          I was under the impression she was finished interviewing Taaffee. Does she choose and decline who to interview even though the show name is hers?

          Up jumped those ratings.

          Geez, let’s hope state expert is not a friend of states IT Director Ben. If so then we know CTH roots grow deep.

      • Shari says:

        So that is really Frank Taffee?

        • racerrodig says:

          Yep….a real role model for those black teens he says he mentors in the THC withdrawal program. I guess he gets them off THC and into booze..

          Party on Fogen ~ Party on Frankie

        • ic2fools says:

          Sure is, watch the whole video. When you watch the video you’ll hear him speaking, one of a kind voice.

          Here is a link to the article in OS wrtten by Stuzman, notice even she wrote bout Taaffe swaying:

          http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-08-29/news/os-frank-taaffe-dui-video-20120829_1_george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-neighborhood-watch-volunteer

          excerpt:
          Police shoot video of Frank Taaffe, George Zimmerman’s friend, during DUI stop
          3:37 p.m. EST, August 29, 2012|
          By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel

          SANFORD – During roadside sobriety tests, Frank Taaffe, one of George Zimmerman’s most ardent supporters, swayed from side to side and staggered when he tried to walk a straight line heel-to-toe, video of his arrest shows.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @ic2 –

            IC, if I were George Zimmerman’s friend, I’d wanna stay drunk for the past two years, too.

          • ic2fools says:

            Good to see you PiranhaMom!

            All this going on I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t keep a flask in his pocket and a bottle close by to keep it full.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        * No_Swagger_Francis *

    • ic2fools says:

      Please go to the 2:54 mark.

      i did try to post the video beginning at 2:54 mark, well now that didn’t work.

      However its’ a quite interesting piece of footage…..

      • Trained Observer says:

        This demo from Fogen’s Swayer Supreme pal is hilarious … except when we consider that this drunken jerk could have caused a fatal accident.

        • ic2fools says:

          Thank goodness he was stopped before he caused an accident.

          If only he, durr-Mara and Joonyer could be stopped by a gag order from making public appearances spewing twisted tales and lies. Guess I’m asking too much, ay.

    • racerrodig says:

      That’s the unedited video. She cut hip off twice and went to commercial and the part where she said “I applaud that..” was not aired along with a few other things.

  15. kllypyn says:

    A repost of an e-mail i plan to send tomorrow to some news organizations to correct spelling and typos…Dear news person. Why are you so sympathetic to a murder suspect? Did you not read the evidence.It’s been all over the net for over a year. His head was never repeatedly slammed into the sidewalk for nearly a minute. if it had been he would never have been in any condition to be able to aim and fire a gun.

    while trayvon was supposedly doing that he also tried to smother him while at the same time beat him in the face 12 times or 30-40 times.Take your pick.To believe his story,first you would have to believe he couldn’t fight back or just laid there and let him do it.

    He had no defensive wounds,his hands had no injuries from trying to fight back his arms have no bruising from blocking blows.Did you ask his lawyers about that,no. You seem to have forgotten trayvon ran from him and thought he had lost him.ZIMMERMAN CHASED AFTER HIM THAT MAKES HIM THE AGGRESSOR.Did you forget that little detail?

    You focused on trace amounts of THC in trayvon’s blood. You made no mention of his lack of Zimmerman DNA on his hands or under his finger nails.no blood on the sleeves of his hoodie.The only blood was his own.Despite the fact Zimmerman suppoosedly had blood all over his head and face.Trayvon’s hands were almost pristine no swelling no bruising just a tiny abrasion on his ring finger. That means since you have ignored it,Trayvon never laid a hand on him he made no effort to hit him at all.

    Trayvon wasn’t perfect,did you miss the memo he was a teenager? He was a good kid.He wanted to get a gun. did it occure to you that maybe he was mugged once or someone in his family was? I was mugged twice once when i was 16 he threatened to kill me because all i had on me was $1.50. If a police car hadn’t come down the street i might not be sitting here typing this. A few years ago i was mugged on the way to work i thought about getting a gun but i never did because i would never have the heart to shoot anyone.I suspect he would have been the same way.
    you don’t have people coming out of the woodwork with nasty things to say about trayon,unlike zimmerman.

    You seem to have totally ignored the evidence,including the contradictory nature of Zimmerman’s statements.and obvious lies.
    He said he was scared of Trayvon.If so,why did he get out of his truck and pursue? He wasn’t afraid Of trayvon,and he knows it. You don’t chase people you are scared of. If that was the case the guy who beat me up must have been terrified of me.He actually took the time to intercept me even though i had taken a different route home to avoid him.

    He said during his NEN call that Trayvon was walking around looking about,which made him suspicious.I guess people aren’t allowed to walk around that neighborhood.Then during one of his statements he said trayvon was looking at all the houses.then he said Trayvon was standing next to a house looking into windows.

    During the reenactments he said trayvon was suspicious because he was walking in the rain and wasn’t running to get out of it. We know trayvon took shelter from the rain when he could. If walking in the rain is suspicious then we all are suspicious because because we’ve all been caught in the rain before including Zimmerman.

    The fact remains Trayvon was not looking into houses thats a lie.The fact remains Trayvon was not acting suspicious,he was acting like a normal teenager.The fact remains Trayvon was not the aggressor,aggressive people don’t run away.The fact remains the only one actng suspicious that night was zimmerman.the fact remains the only one being aggressive that night was zimmerman

    He could not answer why he had no defensive wounds.He could not answer why he thought something was wrong with Trayvon.He could not answer why did Trayvon go off and supposedly beat him up.He could not answer why they heard only one voice screaming.even though Zimmerman said Trayvon screamed shut the fuck up.Which you do not hear on that 911 call. The most prominent voice on that call besides the caller and the dispatcher is Trayvon.

    There is no truth to any of his stories except the fact that he shot Trayvon to death.He did not go looking for an address. He was looking for trayvon.Trayvon never said you’re gonna die tonight mother@#$%$ after seeing the gun. Trayvon never tried to take his gun.Trayvon never repeatedly slammed his head to the sidewalk and Trayvon never repeatedly punched him in the face. Being repeatedly punched in the face would preclude you being able to scream.i know because i’ve been beaten up before.

    The autopsy report. no bruising or swelling to the fingers or knuckles just a tiny abrasion on his ring finger. the wound track direct front to back.1inch left of midline half inch below the nipple. The holes in his shirts are in the upper chest,near his shoulder.

    They show stearlate tearing which shows the shirts were stretched when the bullet tore into them. Zimmerman was holding onto Trayvon’s shirts when he killed him. Trayvon never touched him. But if he had he would have been within his rights to do so.

    We teach our kids to run or defend themselves. Trayvon ran Zimmerman instead of going back to his truck decided to hunt for him after he disappeared into the darkness. He said “call me and i’ll tell you where i’m at.” Despite his claims to the contrary he was not going back to his truck.

    He said he was able to unholster his weapon aim and fire into Trayvon’s chest,while Trayvon was mounted on him beating him. His gun was on his waist at his right rear hip,he was laying on it.He’s going to have to explain how he got his gun. the only way he could get his gun like he claims is if he knocked Trayvon off stood up pulled his gun and killed trayvon,which would negate his self defense claim.

    During a confrontation that lasted less than a minute,he said trayvon repeatedly slammed his head into the sidewalk for nearly a minute while at the same time TRAYVON TRIED TO SMOTHER HIM WHILE ALSO PUNCHING HIM IN THE FACE 30-40 TIMES. He is going to have to explain. How would Trayvon have done that? Did he grow an extra set of arms? Was Trayvon super kid? He is going to have to explain why he only had scratches. no facial bruising no busted lips and of course despite his claims no broken nose and no black eyes. You do not escape with just scratches when you are punched in the face like he claims.I know from personal experience.

    About Those injuries. I have enlarged those photos of scratches on his face. They are consistent with the type of scratches you get from running into tree branches or stumbling into bushes. They are not the injuries you get from someones fist repeatedly slammimng into your face. Notice whats missing in those pictures. There is no swelling on his nose. It’s almost pristine except for a couple of scratches. Even a closed fracture will have swelling which will not disappear less than an hour later. There is no facial swelling. There is no busted lips. AND NO BLACK EYES.there is no facial bruising. We will never know how he got those injuries but we know from the evidence he didn’t get them from trayvon.Evidence you people didn’t read.

    Those injuries on the back of his head. One round puncture wound and an inch long cut.THOSE ARE NOT THE INJURIES YOU GET FROM REPEATEDLY BEING SLAMMED INTO A SIDEWALK. HE GOT THOSE FROM A METAL OBJECT. HE DID NOT GET THOSE INJURIES FROM A SIDEWALK.If his head had been repeatedly slammed into a concrete surface. he would never have been in any condition to be able to aim and fire a gun.

    Trayvon made no effort to defend himself at all during the confrontation that ended his life. He simply tried to escape. In fact he never touched Zimmerman.He made know effort or even attempted to hit Zimmerman at all

    the evidence shows Trayvon being held by his shirts when he was murdered.Again you can’t claim self defense when you prevent the escape of the person you kill. the only way trayvon could have done what Zimmerman claims is if he couldn’t fight back.Or he just laid there and let trayvon beat him.Obviously that didn’t happen. Zimmerman was not disabled in anyway. His injuries were less than minor. I’ve had worse injuries falling on ice.

    Those screams,you’ve heard those screams just like everyone else. Dont give me any crap about experts you should be abe to recognize the panicked voice of a teenager when you hear it. A man with a gun will not scream like that.Trayvon wasn’t just screaming he was crying literally crying. He was also being interrogated.He screamed i don’t know at least twice.

    Zimmerman has done nothing but lie From the second he killed an unarmed kid.Every time he has gotten himself into trouble he has lied his way out of it or people have lied for him.He knows trayvon never touched him so does his lawyers.he knows he never screamed for help or begged for his life so does his lawyers. He knows Trayvon never touched him so does his lawyers.He knows he killed trayvon after becoming enraged and losing his temper.So does his lawyers.Trayvon was literally begging this so called man for his life.Zimmerman knows that so does his lawyers

    I don’t care if Trayvon smoked weed. If smoking weed was a justification for murder then we better kill half the teenagers in this country.In fact there are 96,illion adults in this country who should be dead now.If getting into a couple of fights was a justification for murder we better kill most of the teenagers and most of the adults including Zimmerman.

    Trayvon wasn’t perfect just like the rest of us. and he like most teenagers and adults as well would sometimes screw up. He like most of was a good kid who was still trying to make his way in the world. And like most of us he screwed up along the way and he deserved to live and learn from those mistakes like we have all done.

    He Deserved grow up and become a responsible adult. instead he met up with a man with anger issues and a habit of aggressive behavoir against people he watched and then followed Trayvon then when trayvon ran he got out of his truck to pursue. the rest is history. He was the aggressor not trayvon. If he had gone back to his truck after saying “ok” like he claimed.he would have never seen trayvon again and trayvon would be alive instead of lying in a crypt

    Your continued sympathy for this man is disgusting. i usually have a lot of respect for most reporters because generally most of you get the facts straight in this case not so much.Do you really think Trayvon said you’re gonna die tonight #$$%*@ after seeing the gun.No unarmed person would say that they would back off or try to get away from the person with the gun.I mean really come on now.

    When RZ jr went on a racist rant on twitter you should have called him out on it.Some of you barely gave it a mention which i find intersting since they claim not to be racist. When RZ jr gave an interview to a man who runs a racist website you never said any thing. RZ sr regularly posts on the conservative treehouse a site frequented by racist You should have call him out on it. JR goes on racist rants his parents regularly post on racist websites. they regularly post on racist wesites you should have them called out on it,when they claim zimmerman didn’t racially profile trayvon..Why didn’t you?

    You always want to interview the murdereres family. but you Pratically ignore The martin/fulton family.They have been put through the wringer for over a year now being called names.
    people making up lies about them. And worst of all People saying Trayvon deserved to die and should burn in hell. Trayvon did nothing to deserve a death sentence. He had every right to be where he was.

    It’s time for you to actually look at the evidence. You are the ones who sued under Floridas sunshine law to keep it from being sealed in the first place.listen to those screams. Those are not the screams of a 28 year old adult.As previously stated,a man with a gun will not scream like that.A man repeatedly being punched in the face will not be able to scream like that. I know fron experience. A man whose head is repeatdly slammed onto the sidewalk or other hard surface will have inuries to his hands from trying to shield his head from the sidewalk or any hard surface.Stop the sympathy and those softball questions.

    KELLY D. PAYNE

  16. Shari says:

    As a FL gunowner, I sometimes feel I am the only one in FL pro-Trayvon and anti-Zimmerman. As the former manager of an indoor gunrange and a firearms dealer, I have met dozens, if not hundreds of Zimmerman types . They all are inexperienced, wannabe cops, or at least wannabe “I’ll use my gun to enforce they law” types. They are deeply engaged in a fantasy life in which they are heroes while in reality they have no training and no skills. They tend to be legends in their own minds. However, Zimmerman has polarized gun owners and most in FL support him because they do not understand the issues and are still rationalizing that he was “trying to help” and was “attacked”. Politics and race also play a huge part. Law enforcement usually knows who the legend-in-their-own-mind guys are, since they are like Zim, calling 911 frequently and trying to insinuate themselves into policework. Usually they are considered harmless fools who complicate the job for the real police and in this case, 911 gave him much more leeway than they would an unknown 911 caller. Zim had no tactical training; if he had, he would not have displayed his gun where Martin could have grabbed it, if that even occurred. Martin had every right under FL law to defend himself against an armed stranger who accosted him. Even though I am tactically trained, I would never volunteer to follow someone I “thought” “might be” “possibly” “looking for a residence to burgle” or “didn’t belong” in the neighborhood. I can’t imagine even calling 911. Zim needs to be convicted of the crime for which he is guilty and everyone needs to quit speculating about whether Martin smoked weed or had been reprimanded at school. And LE needs to start looking at the wannabes they consider jokes for what they are: delusional and dangerous

    Commenter from Capehearts WP opinion
    today at 4:13am
    “mscolt1911”

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Wow, that’s a powerful comment and it rings true.

      • Shari says:

        I posted that because it confirmed one of my fears, there are many other Zimmermans out there. Armed, they have friends in high places. They are walking around armed looking for a fight. They are losers sitting by their windows looking for garbage in the driveway or code violations. Some are racists, some may not be.

        Scary stuff.I am not a gun grabber. I care not what you do in your own time. My aim is to work towards making sure the Zimmermans of the world don’t walk around armed with multiple firearms.

        I was very pleased to see one decent gun owner. I’m sure there are more out there. Thank you “mscolt1911.”

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I live in a state that doesn’t allow CCW except for people who can show need, like detectives, security, etc.. I think that’s a good start – it tends to keep guns at home where they belong, and of course, in the hands of criminals, but that’s a dead giveaway when someone starts brandishing a gun in public.

        Studies show that civilians who carry tend to do exactly what Fogen did – they put themselves in situations they shouldn’t get into, plus they tend to be more angry and more aggressive than non-carriers.

        • Colorado is an “open carry” state…….Meaning one can walk down the street with a firearm as long as it is visible….no special permits required…

          The only time for me is hiking, camping or backpacking……..Critters in these forests ya know.

    • PiranhaMom says:

      @Shari,

      Cogent, succinct and right on target! Written from experience.

    • Malisha says:

      Brilliant and well organized comment. The description of the wannabes is excellent.

    • cielo62 says:

      Shari~ TowerFlower is also a gun owner on Team Trayvon. As far as RESPONSIBLE gun ownership goes, gz is NOT an example of that. Too bad that “delusional wanna-be’s” aren’t blacklisted for firearm purchases.

      ________________________________

      • X2……….even if most of the guns here are antiques….like me 🙂

        • PiranhaMom says:

          I am a gun owner and I have been horrified by Zimmerman’s attitude and actions since Day One.

          I consider the ownership of my guns a privilege, not a “right,” a privilege that I was qualified for by Los Angeles PD, with repeated approvals by the LA Sheriff and the Mexican Federal government (which was the toughest of al three agencies to get approval from).

          I do not carry “concealed.”

          Zimmerman and his kind and their actions are definite threats to future gun ownership by responsible hunters, marksmen, collectors, and those concerned with personal protection.

          At some point, America will rise up and say ENOUGH!

          All gun owners need to realize that. If we do not police ourselves, we will be policed.

          Gun owners must respect reasonable public safety requirements and support legislation that provides protection to the general public.

          We must as individuals NOT equate guns with “manhood.” A pistol is not a penis, nor a substitute therefor.

          • THANK YOU thank you thank you…..

            In high school we had a shooting team…..it’s an Olympic sport the same as archery….

            I have no problem with requiring a license to own weapons….no different than driving a car…….training….testing….and passing grades…

            What percentage of gun crimes are committed by illegally owned weapons?

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @MountainMan –

            I should have added that a strong element to responsible gun ownership is safe and secure storage of one’s weapons.

            I see the day when there will be a home insurance policy rider requiring declaration of guns owned, requiring report of any loss to both the lead law enforcement agency (in CA it’s the County Sheriff’s Dept.) and the insurance company – and a special premium paid by gun owners. (Modified premium for those taking recent safety training.)

          • cielo62 says:

            P-Mom: I support that suggestion 100%!

            Sent from my iPod

          • cielo62 says:

            MMP- here in Redneckistan, most gun violence is is done by guns legally owned by drunk or abusive assholes.

            Sent from my iPod

      • towerflower says:

        Shari, like cielo said I am a gun owner and on Team Trayvon and I live in Florida. I live in the same news coverage area that covers Sanford. Have faith, there are gun owners that live in Florida who do not support GZ or his ideals.

        Like cielo said GZ is not an example of a responsible gun owner, he violated the basic KSAs that the NRA teaches…..Knowledge, Skill, Attitude. He went in with a poor and wrong attitude, incorrectly assuming wrong and profiling a person and carried that gun not for personal protection against a loose dog (imo) but as an extension of what he perceived to be “his job” as a NW and “protector” against all what he perceived to be wrong (as evident from his carrying everywhere except work). Wannabe cops do not possess the Knowledge, Skills, or Attitude as a cop.

        • racerrodig says:

          I will argue forever Fogen has the attitude “My gun is useless if I don’t find a way to use it on somebody”

          It’s not like when I buy new tools…..I buy them because I need them. He ‘s a lying fraud, he didn’t need a gun and I covered that last year during “The Big Boi Defense” phase.

  17. BillT says:

    have even ONE of them checked the autopsy??????

    there was no fight……

    have even ONE of them listened to the 911 calls?????

    NO physical fight can be heard on those tapes!

  18. BillT says:

    it amazes me how so many lawyers can be so utterly WRONG on such a simple case…….these folks on HLN are a joke so far.

    • tonya B says:

      ughhhh I got so mad watchin hln after hours……. a joke

    • looolooo says:

      Even the usually objective and well informed Judge Alex Ferrer stated (as though it were fact) that fogen had a broken nose and several bleeding gashes on his head. WTF! I’m shocked the HE would say such a thing when there is NO proof of a broken nose, and his two minor abrasions bled briefly before cloting.

      I only saw the last 12 minutes of the show, but by the end, almost everyone seemed to think that the defense has the upper hand. REALLY? Didn’t hear him give his opinion, but, what did Vinnie Politan have to say? I hope that he’s not a fan of kool-aid.

  19. kllypyn says:

    A preview of an e-mail i plan to send tomorrow. I would send it tonight but it took me forever to type it…..Dear news person. Why are you so sympathetic to a murder suspect? Did you not read the evidence.It’s been all over the net for over a year. His head was never repeatedly slammed into the sidewalk for nearly a minute. if it had been he would never have been in any condition to be able to aim and fire a gun.

    While trayvon was supposedly doing that he also tried to smother him while at the same time beat him in the face 12 time or 30-40 times.Take your pick.To believe his story,first you would have to believe he couldn’t fight back or just laid there and let him do it.

    He had no defensive wounds,his hands had no injuries from trying to fight back his arms have no bruising from blocking blows.Did you ask his lawyers about that,no. You seem to have forgotten trayvon ran from him and thought he had lost him.ZIMMERMAN CHASED AFTER HIM THAT MAKES HIM THE AGGRESSOR.Did you forget that little detail?

    You focused on trace amounts of THC in trayvon’s blood. You made no mention of his lack of Zimmerman DNA on his hands or under his finger nails.no blood on the sleeves of his hoodie.The only blood was his own.Despite the fact Zimmerman suppoosedly had blood all over his head and face.Trayvon’s hands were almost pristine no swelling no bruising just a tiny abrasion on his ring finger. That means since you have ignored it,Trayvon never laid a hand on him he made no effort to hit him at all.

    Trayvon wasn’t perfect,did you miss the memo he was a teenager? He was a good kid.He wanted to get a gun. did it occure to you that maybe he was mugged once or someone in his family was? I was mugged twice once when i was 16 he threatened to kill me because all i had on me was $1.50. If a police car hadn’t come down the street i might not be sitting here typing this. A few years ago i was mugged on the way to work i thought about getting a gun but i never did because i would never have the heart to shoot anyone.I suspect he would have been the same way.
    you don’t have people coming out of the woodwork with nasty things to say about trayon,unlike zimmerman.

    You seem to have totally ignored the evidence,including the contradictory nature of Zimmerman staements. and obvious lies.
    He said he was scared of Trayvon.If so,why did he get out of his truck and pursue? He wasn’t afraid Of trayvon,and he knows it. You don’t chase people you are scared of. If that was the case the guy who beat me up must have been terrified of me.He actually took the time to intercept me even though i had taken a different route home to avoid him.

    He said during his NEN call that Trayvon was walking around looking about,which made him suspicious.I guess people arent allow to walk around that neighborhood.Then during one of his statements he said trayvon was looking at all the houses.then he said Trayvon was standing next to a house looking into windows.

    during the reenactments he said trayvon was suspicious because he was walking in the rain and wasn’t running to get out of it. We know trayvon took shelter from the rain when he could. If walking in the rain is suspicious then we all are suspicious because because we’ve all been caught in the rain before including Zimmerpunk.

    The fact remains Trayvon was not looking into houses thats a lie. the fact remains Trayvon was not acting suspicious,he was acting like a normal teenager.the fact remains Trayvon was not the aggressor,aggressive people don’t run away.The fact remains the only one actng suspicious that night was zimmerpunk.the fact remains the only one being aggressive that night was zimmerpunk

    He could not answer why he had no defensive wounds.He could not answer why he thought something was wrong with Trayvon.He could not answer why did Trayvon go off and supposedly beat him up.He could not answer why they heard only one voice screaming.even though Zimmerpunk said Trayvon screamed shut the fuck up.Which you do not hear on that 911 call. The most prominent voice on that call besides the caller and the dispatcher is Trayvon.

    There is no truth to any of his stories ecept the fact that he shot Trayvon to death.He did not go looking for an address. Trayvon never said you’re gonna die tonight mother@#$%$ after seeing the gun. Trayvon never tried to take his gun.Trayvon never repeated slammed his head to the sidewalk and Trayvon never repeatedly punched him in the face. Being repeated punched in the face would preclude you being able to scream.i know because i’ve been beaten up before.

    The autopsy report. no bruising or swelling to the fingers or knuckles just a tiny abrasion on his ring finger. the wound track direct front to back.1inch left of midline half inch below the nipple. The holes in his shirts are in the upper chest,near his shoulder.

    They show stearlate tearing which shows the shirts were stretched when the bullet tore into them. Zimmerman was holding onto Trayvon’s shirts when he killed him. Trayvon never touched him. But if he had he would have been within his rights to do so.

    We teach our kids to run or defend themselves. Trayvon ran Zimmerman instead of going back to his truck decided to hunt for him after he disappeared into the darkness. He said “call me and i’ll tell you where i’m at.” Despite his claims to the contrary he was not going back to his truck.

    He said he was able to unholster his weapon aim and fire into Trayvon’s chest,while Trayvon was mounted on him beating him. His gun was on his waist at his right rear hip,he was laying on it.He’s going to have to explain how he got his gun. the only way he could get his gun like he claims is if he knocked Trayvon off stood up pulled his gun and killed trayvon,which would negate his self defense claim.

    During a confrontation that lasted less than a minute,he said trayvon repeatedly slammed his head into the sidewalk for nearly a minute while at the same time TRAYVON TRIED TO SMOTHER HIM WHILE ALSO PUNCHING HIM IN THE FACE 30-40 TIMES. He is going to have to explain. How would Trayvon have done that? Did he grow an extra set of arms? Was Trayvon super kid? He is going to have to explain why he only had scratches. no facial bruising no busted lips and of course despite his claims no broken nose and no black eyes. You do not escape with just scratches when you are punched in the face like he claims.I know from personal experience.

    About Those injuries. I have enlarged those photos of scratches on his face. They are consistent with the type of scratches you get from running into tree branches or stumbling into bushes. They are not the injuries you get from someones fist repeatedly slammimng into your face. Notice whats missing in those pictures. There is no swelling on his nose. It’s amost pristine except for a couple of scratches. Even a closed fracture will have swelling which will not disappear less than an hour later. There is no facial swelling. There is no busted lips. AND NO BLACK EYES.there is no facial bruising. We will never know how he got those injuries but we know from the evidence he didn’t get them from trayvon.Evidence you people didn’t read.

    Those injuries on the back of his head. One round puncture wound and an inch long cut.THOSE ARE NOT THE INJURIES YOU GET FROM REPEATEDLY BEING SLAMMED INTO A SIDEWALK. HE GOT THOSE FROM A METAL OBJECT. HE DID NOT GET THOSE INJURIES FROM A SIDEWALK.If his had been repeatedly slammed into a concrete surface. he would never have been in any condition to be able to aim and fire a gun.

    Trayvon made no effort to defend himself at all during the confrontation that ended his life. He simply tried to escape. In fact he never touched Zimmerman.He made know effort or even attempted to hit Zimmerman at all

    the evidence shows Trayvon being held by his shirts when he was murdered.again you can’t claim self defense when you prevent the escape of the person you kill. the only way trayvon could have done what Zimmerman claims is if he couldn’t fight back.Or he just laid there and let trayvon beat him.Obviously that didn’t happen. Zimmerman was not disabled in anyway. His injuries were less than minor. I’ve had worse injuries falling on ice.

    Those screams,you’ve heard those screams just like everyone else. Dont give me any crap about experts you should be abe to recognize the panicked voice of a teenager when you hear it. A man with a gun will not scream like that.Trayvon wasn’t just screaming he was crying literally crying. He was also being interrogated.He screamed i don’t know at least twice.

    Zimmerman has done nothing but lie From the second he killed an unarmed kid.Every time he has gotten himself into trouble he has lied his way out of it or people have lied for him.He knows trayvon never touched him so does his lawyers.he knows he never screamed for help or begged for his life so does his lawyers. He knows Trayvon never touched him so does his lawyers.He knows he killed trayvon after becoming enraged and losing his temper.So does his lawyers.Trayvon was literally begging this so called man for his life.Zimmerman knows that so does his lawyers

    I don’t care if Trayvon smoked weed. If smoking weed was a justification for murder then we better kill half the teenagers in this country.In fact there are 96,illion adults in this country who should be dead now.If getting into a couple of fights was a justification for murder we better kill most of the teenagers and most of the adults including Zimmerman.

    Trayvon wasn’t perfect just like the rest of us. and he like most teenagers and adults as well would sometimes screw up. He like most of was a good kid who was still trying to make his way in the world. And like most of us he screwed up along the way and he deserved to live and learn from those mistakes like we have all done.

    he Deserved grow up and become a responsible adult. instead he met up with a man with anger issues and a habit of aggressive begavoir against people he watched and the followed Trayvon then when trayvon he got out of his truck to pursue. the rest is history. He was the aggressor not trayvon. if he had gone back to his truck after saying “ok” like he claimed.he would have never seen trayvon again and trayvon would be alive instead of lying in a crypt

    Your continued sympathy for this man is disgusting. i usually have a lot of respect for most reporter because geneerally most of you get the facts staight in this case not so much.Do you really thinkTrayvon you’re gonna die tonight #$$%*@ after seeing the gun.No unarmed person would say that they would back off or try to get away from the person with the gun.I mean really come on now.

    When RZ jr went on a racist rant on twitter you should have called him out on it.Some of you barely gave it a mention which i find intersting since they claim not to be racist. When RZ jr gave an interview to a man who runs a racist website you never said any thing. RZ sr regularly posts on the conservative treehouse a site frequented by racist You should have call him out on it. JR goes on racist rants his parents regularly post on racist websites. they regularly post on racst wesites you should have them called out on it when they claim zimmerman didn’t racially profile trayvon..Why didn’t you?

    You always want to interview the murdereres family. but you Pratically ignore The martin/fulton family.They have been put through the wringer for over a year now being called names.
    people making up lies about them. And worst of all People saying Trayvon deserved to die and should burn in hell. Trayvon did nothing to deserved a death sentence. He had every right to be where he was.

    It’s time for you to actually look at the evidence. You are the ones who sued under floridas sunshine law to keep it from being sealed in the first place.listen to those screams. Those are not the screams of a 28 year old adult.As previously stated,a man with a gun will not scream like that.A man repeatedly being ounch in the face will not be able to scream like that i know fron experience. A man whose head is repeatdly slammed onto the sidewalk or other hard surface will have inuries to his hands from trying to shield his herad from the sidewalk or any hard surface.Stop the sympathy and those softball questions.

    KELLY D. PAYNE.

    • 2dogsonly says:

      That is one of the most cognizant, well articulated posts I have read. It is very nearly a perfect closing statement. Thank you for your time you took to clearly explain the evidence and events of 2/26/12.

    • 2dogsonly says:

      Kelly, I hope you cut and paste this to many other blogs so many others can read your beautifully crafted blog post.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Thanks for all your hard work, Kelly.

    • type1juve says:

      Kelly, your post is excellent!

    • dianetrotter says:

      Hi Kelly, I made a few suggestions. If you want to put this on Googledocs, I will help you edit. I made a couple of suggestions on the first 2 and last 2 paragraphs. A preview of an e-mail i plan to send tomorrow. I would send it tonight but it took me forever to type it…..

      Dear news person. Why are you so sympathetic to a murder suspect? Did you not read the evidence? It’s been all over the net for over a year. The suspect’s head was never repeatedly slammed into the sidewalk for nearly a minute. If it had been he would never have been in any condition to be able to aim and fire a gun.
      While Trayvon was supposedly slamming the suspect’s head into the pavement and simultaneously, smothering him. at the same time, Trayvon was allegedly beating the suspect in the face 12 times or 30-40 times. It takes more than two hands to accomplish such a feat. To believe the suspect’s story,first you would have to believe he couldn’t fight back or just laid there and let him do it. Take your pick.

      According to the medica examiner’s report, Trayvon had no defensive wounds, his hands had no injuries and his arms had no brusing. There was no evidence that Trayvon fought back or attempted defensive maneuvers to protect himself.

      Did you ask his lawyers about that,no. You seem to have forgotten trayvon ran from him and thought he had lost him.ZIMMERMAN CHASED AFTER HIM THAT MAKES HIM THE AGGRESSOR.Did you forget that little detail?
      You focused on trace amounts of THC in trayvon’s blood. You made no mention of his lack of Zimmerman DNA on his hands or under his finger nails.no blood on the sleeves of his hoodie.The only blood was his own.Despite the fact Zimmerman suppoosedly had blood all over his head and face.Trayvon’s hands were almost pristine no swelling no bruising just a tiny abrasion on his ring finger. That means since you have ignored it,Trayvon never laid a hand on him he made no effort to hit him at all.
      Trayvon wasn’t perfect,did you miss the memo he was a teenager? He was a good kid.He wanted to get a gun. did it occure to you that maybe he was mugged once or someone in his family was? I was mugged twice once when i was 16 he threatened to kill me because all i had on me was $1.50. If a police car hadn’t come down the street i might not be sitting here typing this. A few years ago i was mugged on the way to work i thought about getting a gun but i never did because i would never have the heart to shoot anyone.I suspect he would have been the same way.
      you don’t have people coming out of the woodwork with nasty things to say about trayon,unlike zimmerman.
      You seem to have totally ignored the evidence,including the contradictory nature of Zimmerman staements. and obvious lies.
      He said he was scared of Trayvon.If so,why did he get out of his truck and pursue? He wasn’t afraid Of trayvon,and he knows it. You don’t chase people you are scared of. If that was the case the guy who beat me up must have been terrified of me.He actually took the time to intercept me even though i had taken a different route home to avoid him.
      He said during his NEN call that Trayvon was walking around looking about,which made him suspicious.I guess people arent allow to walk around that neighborhood.Then during one of his statements he said trayvon was looking at all the houses.then he said Trayvon was standing next to a house looking into windows.
      during the reenactments he said trayvon was suspicious because he was walking in the rain and wasn’t running to get out of it. We know trayvon took shelter from the rain when he could. If walking in the rain is suspicious then we all are suspicious because because we’ve all been caught in the rain before including Zimmerpunk.
      The fact remains Trayvon was not looking into houses thats a lie. the fact remains Trayvon was not acting suspicious,he was acting like a normal teenager.the fact remains Trayvon was not the aggressor,aggressive people don’t run away.The fact remains the only one actng suspicious that night was zimmerpunk.the fact remains the only one being aggressive that night was zimmerpunk
      He could not answer why he had no defensive wounds.He could not answer why he thought something was wrong with Trayvon.He could not answer why did Trayvon go off and supposedly beat him up.He could not answer why they heard only one voice screaming.even though Zimmerpunk said Trayvon screamed shut the fuck up.Which you do not hear on that 911 call. The most prominent voice on that call besides the caller and the dispatcher is Trayvon.
      There is no truth to any of his stories ecept the fact that he shot Trayvon to death.He did not go looking for an address. Trayvon never said you’re gonna die tonight mother@#$%$ after seeing the gun. Trayvon never tried to take his gun.Trayvon never repeated slammed his head to the sidewalk and Trayvon never repeatedly punched him in the face. Being repeated punched in the face would preclude you being able to scream.i know because i’ve been beaten up before.
      The autopsy report. no bruising or swelling to the fingers or knuckles just a tiny abrasion on his ring finger. the wound track direct front to back.1inch left of midline half inch below the nipple. The holes in his shirts are in the upper chest,near his shoulder.
      They show stearlate tearing which shows the shirts were stretched when the bullet tore into them. Zimmerman was holding onto Trayvon’s shirts when he killed him. Trayvon never touched him. But if he had he would have been within his rights to do so.
      We teach our kids to run or defend themselves. Trayvon ran Zimmerman instead of going back to his truck decided to hunt for him after he disappeared into the darkness. He said “call me and i’ll tell you where i’m at.” Despite his claims to the contrary he was not going back to his truck.
      He said he was able to unholster his weapon aim and fire into Trayvon’s chest,while Trayvon was mounted on him beating him. His gun was on his waist at his right rear hip,he was laying on it.He’s going to have to explain how he got his gun. the only way he could get his gun like he claims is if he knocked Trayvon off stood up pulled his gun and killed trayvon,which would negate his self defense claim.
      During a confrontation that lasted less than a minute,he said trayvon repeatedly slammed his head into the sidewalk for nearly a minute while at the same time TRAYVON TRIED TO SMOTHER HIM WHILE ALSO PUNCHING HIM IN THE FACE 30-40 TIMES. He is going to have to explain. How would Trayvon have done that? Did he grow an extra set of arms? Was Trayvon super kid? He is going to have to explain why he only had scratches. no facial bruising no busted lips and of course despite his claims no broken nose and no black eyes. You do not escape with just scratches when you are punched in the face like he claims.I know from personal experience.
      About Those injuries. I have enlarged those photos of scratches on his face. They are consistent with the type of scratches you get from running into tree branches or stumbling into bushes. They are not the injuries you get from someones fist repeatedly slammimng into your face. Notice whats missing in those pictures. There is no swelling on his nose. It’s amost pristine except for a couple of scratches. Even a closed fracture will have swelling which will not disappear less than an hour later. There is no facial swelling. There is no busted lips. AND NO BLACK EYES.there is no facial bruising. We will never know how he got those injuries but we know from the evidence he didn’t get them from trayvon.Evidence you people didn’t read.
      Those injuries on the back of his head. One round puncture wound and an inch long cut.THOSE ARE NOT THE INJURIES YOU GET FROM REPEATEDLY BEING SLAMMED INTO A SIDEWALK. HE GOT THOSE FROM A METAL OBJECT. HE DID NOT GET THOSE INJURIES FROM A SIDEWALK.If his had been repeatedly slammed into a concrete surface. he would never have been in any condition to be able to aim and fire a gun.
      Trayvon made no effort to defend himself at all during the confrontation that ended his life. He simply tried to escape. In fact he never touched Zimmerman.He made know effort or even attempted to hit Zimmerman at all
      the evidence shows Trayvon being held by his shirts when he was murdered.again you can’t claim self defense when you prevent the escape of the person you kill. the only way trayvon could have done what Zimmerman claims is if he couldn’t fight back.Or he just laid there and let trayvon beat him.Obviously that didn’t happen. Zimmerman was not disabled in anyway. His injuries were less than minor. I’ve had worse injuries falling on ice.
      Those screams,you’ve heard those screams just like everyone else. Dont give me any crap about experts you should be abe to recognize the panicked voice of a teenager when you hear it. A man with a gun will not scream like that.Trayvon wasn’t just screaming he was crying literally crying. He was also being interrogated.He screamed i don’t know at least twice.
      Zimmerman has done nothing but lie From the second he killed an unarmed kid.Every time he has gotten himself into trouble he has lied his way out of it or people have lied for him.He knows trayvon never touched him so does his lawyers.he knows he never screamed for help or begged for his life so does his lawyers. He knows Trayvon never touched him so does his lawyers.He knows he killed trayvon after becoming enraged and losing his temper.So does his lawyers.Trayvon was literally begging this so called man for his life.Zimmerman knows that so does his lawyers
      I don’t care if Trayvon smoked weed. If smoking weed was a justification for murder then we better kill half the teenagers in this country.In fact there are 96,illion adults in this country who should be dead now.If getting into a couple of fights was a justification for murder we better kill most of the teenagers and most of the adults including Zimmerman.
      Trayvon wasn’t perfect just like the rest of us. and he like most teenagers and adults as well would sometimes screw up. He like most of was a good kid who was still trying to make his way in the world. And like most of us he screwed up along the way and he deserved to live and learn from those mistakes like we have all done.
      he Deserved grow up and become a responsible adult. instead he met up with a man with anger issues and a habit of aggressive begavoir against people he watched and the followed Trayvon then when trayvon he got out of his truck to pursue. the rest is history. He was the aggressor not trayvon. if he had gone back to his truck after saying “ok” like he claimed.he would have never seen trayvon again and trayvon would be alive instead of lying in a crypt
      Your continued sympathy for this man is disgusting. i usually have a lot of respect for most reporter because geneerally most of you get the facts staight in this case not so much.Do you really thinkTrayvon you’re gonna die tonight #$$%*@ after seeing the gun.No unarmed person would say that they would back off or try to get away from the person with the gun.I mean really come on now.
      When RZ jr went on a racist rant on twitter you should have called him out on it.Some of you barely gave it a mention which i find intersting since they claim not to be racist. When RZ jr gave an interview to a man who runs a racist website you never said any thing. RZ sr regularly posts on the conservative treehouse a site frequented by racist You should have call him out on it. JR goes on racist rants his parents regularly post on racist websites. they regularly post on racst wesites you should have them called out on it when they claim zimmerman didn’t racially profile trayvon..Why didn’t you?
      Journalists prefer to interview the murderer’s family. but pratically ignore the martin/Fulton family. Trayvon’s family has been put through the wringer for over a year now. The grieving parents are called names, lied on, taunted and ridiculed. The epitome of inhumanity is that people laugh about the senseless murder of Trayvon and say he deserved to die and should burn in hell. Trayvon did nothing to deserved a death sentence. Trayvon has as much right to be at Twin Lakes as George Zimmerman.
      Trayvon was a guest and George Zimmerman was a delinquent renter.

      Media has a responsibility to be unbiased in reporting actual facts. Editorial comments should not be reported as news. It’s time for you to actually look at the evidence. Media sued under Florida’s sunshine law to keep evidence from being sealed in the first place. Listen to the screams on the 911 call. Those are not the screams of a 28 year old adult. As voice experts have stated, a man with a gun will not scream like that. A man repeatedly being punch in the face will not be able to scream like that. I know from personal experience. A man whose head is repeatedly slammed onto the sidewalk or other hard surface would have defensive wounds on his hands will from trying to shield his head from the sidewalk or any hard surface. Stop the sympathy and those softball questions.
      KELLY D. PAYNE.

    • Malisha says:

      Fabulous, thank you thank you Kelly D. Payne! ❗

    • Nef05 says:

      That’s a really great letter, Kelly. I hope you send it to everyone you can think of and they take a hard look in the mirror, as a result. Well Done!

    • cielo62 says:

      NAIL ‘EM KELLY! NAIL ‘EM!!

      ________________________________

    • Nellie Nell says:

      Love it Kelly! It makes me so angry that Trayvon had to go through this and his family has to mourn their kid in the public. When this first hit the airwaves, I was mad at myself for not being able to help him as I live in Ohio. After weeks of sobbing, as if this were my own child, I was finally able to release the guilt that I felt for not being able to help him.

      I kept telling my sister that he would be arrested for murder because she did not think her would be. I told her that my God has spoken to my heart and he was arrested. My God has also informed me that he will go to jail for that 25 to life sentence that he deserves and I believe in my heart of hearts that he will. I have some people that I connect with on Facebook and even Skype with one that does not live in the USA about this case. I tell them that I do not want to hear that the murderer will be acquitted so do not speak that language when communicating with me. WE WILL NOT SPEAK THAT INTO EXISTENCE!

      In another month or so, he will be handed his long deserved sentence and we will all celebrate and rejoice that this maniac is off the streets!

      J4T 6.10.13

  20. Ty Flair says:

    They are talking about Trayvon case on HLN After Dark right now.

  21. cielo62 says:

    >^..^<. Drooping whiskers. Trying to catch up.

  22. Mark O’Mara on FOX 35 May 29 2013

  23. ay2z says:

    Off topic but so relevant for Crane and Fred.

    Crane, story of a Sandhill with a prosethetic leg.

    Fred, our dedicated, eithical and all ’round good human being, I found headlines on today’s The Provnce newspaper from Vancouver Canada.

    Title:

    “Check your Inbox, You’re Being Sued: Brian Burke wins key ruling in legal fight against internet trolls.”

    with inside page title:

    “Burke can serve papers online”
    “Lawsuit: Unique circumstances leave no alternative, Supreme Court master says.”

    The inside page has a photo of lawyer Robert Grant in his office in Vancouver on Tuesday. “The lawyer for ex-Canucks general manager Brian Burke has won the right to serve ‘papers’ to online posters of allegedly defamatory aterial about his client

    I bought the paper, and will read through the article tonight, but thought of you immediately and the ‘B’ troll who has attacked you online.

    Let them be warned!! Burke is not in the USA, but there may be something for those bothered by such trolls in the US.

    Beware, B-fogen.

  24. Two sides to a story says:

    Seems there’s a wave of dissent against GZLC building –

    GZ’s Relevant Past –
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2013/05/28/george-zimmermans-relevant-past/

  25. Romaine says:

    Kllypyn it doesnt matter to me about the weed, the fighting, gun, or videos..

    the truth of how and why his life was ended is all that is important to me…

    weed has been around since america came into play, the pilgrims smoked weed and sniffed cocaine, cocaine was once a main ingredient in coca cola soda.

    boys were taught to use guns in grade school at one time,back then is was to protect their land from their neighboring robbers.

    children fight, and some adults fight far more than the childern.

    and that video crap, half the time the media wouldn’t have a story if is were not for an iphone video from a bystander…so to me its all BS.

  26. kllypyn says:

    we all make bad decisions. trayvon’s main bad decision was smoking weed. his history of fighting is what 2? where apparently he WAS ON THE LOSING END OF. come on.

    • dianetrotter says:

      It is debatable about whether or not smoking weed is bad. Several students told me they do better on tests when they smoke. It helps them concentrate.

      • Rachael says:

        Of course they do!! LOL. Just like people say they bowl better and drive better too. That doesn’t make it true. But that has nothing to do with it. We don’t shoot people for smoking pot. Heck, where I live it is even legal. If course you have to be over 21, but it is still not okay to shoot people under 21 for smoking pot, no matter if it IS good or bad.

      • Rachael says:

        I mean people say the drive better and bowl better if they have a couple beers too.

  27. Romaine says:

    Casting away doubt will come by explaining the truth, if the time comes to explain any negative characteristics of Trayvon Martin his parents, friends, siblings, and other relatives can simply state what they know is the truth good, bad, or indifferent.

    Trayvon was not perfect he was a growing 17 year old male, testing the waters of life like every other human being living in this world.

    although all of his decisions were not the right decisions those decisions did not earn him a death sentence to be accomplished by the hands of George Zimmerman.

    There will not be one juror sitting in the jurors box who has never made a bad decision, regardless of the type of error made in his or her life that turned his or her world into a spiralling downward mess.

    The biggest difference will be they each are still alive being held with the responsibility to decide on the factual evidence being present in this case.

    No one killed them for their individual mistakes or misjudgements. Trayvon deserved the same, George Zimmerman took away those options from Trayvon when he ended Trayvons life.

    George Zimmerman made a decision on the night of Feb. 26, 2012, that decision was life or death, in so making that decision he failed to calculate the reprecussion of his actions 25 years to LIFE.

    Although he is still alive he must now reap the punishment of his wrong decision.
    Good, Bad or Indifferent, now has come the time for George to live what he “claims” to have fought so hard for others; the injustice of an abused victim (Trayvon) at the hands of a criminal mind (george).

    anyone can take the past events of both parties and place them in the weight scales of the law there will be an embalance yet who will have the greater weight of that embalance?

    GEORGE….the whistles are blowing, the train is come, the bells are tolling!!!!!!

    ONE Judge, SIX Jurors, and YOU….THE BOX IS WAITING…Phase two of “GODS PLAN” is Patient, Just and Generous.

    JUNE 10, 2013 HOODIES UP TRAYVON MARTINS LIFE WAS NOT IN VAIN and SHALL NOT DEPART THIS EARTH WITHOUT A VICTORY…I BELIEVE IT, I RECEIVE IT, I CLAIM IT…..AMEN

    • Trained Observer says:

      Speaking of decisions …. I found it quite annoying on Tuesday when O’Mara referred to “Trayvon’s decision.” Even yammering about his “bad decision.”

      What? Exactly what decision was that?

      I would have liked for JN to have nailed him on such gratuitous commentary. The only “decision” Trayvon made after leaving the store, it could be argued, was to walk home while black. That’s Fogen’s notion of a bad decision. O’Mara seems eager to spread the thought.

      Such malice and/or stupidity from an attorney should not be allowed in the courtroom.

    • Judy75201 says:

      AMEN

    • Malisha says:

      although all of his decisions were not the right decisions those decisions did not earn him a death sentence to be accomplished by the hands of George Zimmerman.

      We don’t even know that. We don’t have any EVIDENCE of his decisions. We have EVIDENCE of: His school administration’s decisions (never appealed, never explained); his parents’ decisions (normal and natural); and a bunch of other stuff. We have no real evidence of Trayvon Martin’s decisions except for the following:

      1. He chose to purchase items at a 7-11 and to pay for them with cash.

      2. He chose to go back to his father’s place after that purchase.

      3. He made a decision to “run” away from Fogen.

      The rest of it is conjecture and speculation and can never be tested by the methods we call “due process” because Trayvon Martin is dead.

      • Romaine says:

        Wow, I’ll agree to disagree with you and leave it at that.. enjoy your weekend, Professor thank you for all of your knowledge, i’ve enjoyed your site. Peace to you all

  28. BillT says:

    there is no reason for her to be called as a witness, she wasnt there……the prosecution does not need any comment on Trayvon’s character, they only need to present the physical evidence, which shows clearly that zman followed martin outside his car into an area pretty far away from his car, and shot Martin through the heart from straight on, then told the police he DID IT!

    how can the defense rebut any of those FACTS?

    as Frederick has been saying for a good while now, the defense simply has NO DEFENSE.

    the state tells the well known FACTS, turn out the lights the partys OVER!

    • BillT says:

      the only remaining question is WHY, and only fogen can answer that, then turn the lights back ON, because the worst defendant ever testifying will be one for the record books…..because his own words given in various statements CONTRADICT any new story he could attempt on the stand.

    • towerflower says:

      BillT, I only used his mother as an example. I still have the same question. Is it possible for the door to opened by a witness? (I’m not a lawyer and only want to understand the whole opening the door issue).

      • BillT says:

        not a lawyer here either, and please it is my direct manor of posting that gets misunderstood often and it is my fault…..i in no way was being critical of your post, was just using it to explain why they dont need that type witness……based on how they have behaved so far i think the prosecution knows what they are doing and know they have a simple case to present, no frills needed.

      • towerflower says:

        BillT…… No worries, I thought you just misread my comment and only assumed I was taking about Sybrina.

      • Malisha says:

        Stray comments made by witnesses that are non-responsive to questions actually asked can be stricken and if stricken they do not “open” any doors for anything else. Questions asked on cross that are not related to questions asked on direct can be objected to and the judge can sustain the objection. I don’t think there is a chance of “uh oh somebody said something good about Trayvon by accident and now he’s in for it” happening except in the fevered imaginations of the “kill-the-dead-kid-again” crowd. Judge Nelson knows how to run a trial.

    • Trained Observer says:

      The Keep It Simple, Stupid approach seems best for this case … if for no other reason than to prevent it from becoming an Arias-style circus. Just the facts should make things clear enough for a reasonable jury, one would hope.

    • pat deadder says:

      Thank you SearchingMind,BillT yes I get it now It’s just about what happened that night.That makes absolute sense.The defense team was trying to turn the trial into a circus like they have the hearings.As for Trayvon’s family having to remain silent fogen,his handllers and family should have remained silent.They have only made themselves look depraved imho by lying and begging.I’m thankful to have Mr Leatheman ,his wife and everyone here to put things in perspective although I do believe omara and westie accomplished their goal somewhat yesterday just not sure at what cost to their personal and professional reputations.To get money and try to corrupt the jury was the purpose of all that BS and they don’t feel any shame.

  29. towerflower says:

    I have a question. While I understand the part of the State not opening the door to the defense, could it be possible that it is opened by a witness? Say Sabrina is on the stand and says something like “TM hates fighting.” Could the door then be opened from this?

    I would hate to see it open by a comment from a witness.

    • It could theoretically happen, but it is unlikely because BDLR will not ask a question that opens that door and he will instruct his witnesses to only answer his questions.

      • towerflower says:

        Thank you Professor, if the Defense is doing the questioning, I’m assuming that BDLR could object before an answer is given and stopping it before it happens, correct?

      • Brandi, missouri says:

        Why haven’t we seen gz’s texts yet?

        • Because the prosecution is abiding by Judge Lester’s order not to publicize any information obtained from GZ’s phone.

          The defense claims that it was “forced” to publicize information obtained from Trayvon’s phone because it had to use it as an exhibit in support of its motion for sanctions against the prosecutor for withholding information.

          • Mornin’

            Time for me to change from hip boots to chest waders……….gettin’ really deep…….stinks too 😦

            Question……….Can mom & skeletor dump fogen, or ask to be removed as airyass’s lawyers tried?

            airyass’s were public defenders, so I can understand the states refusal……..fogens nightmare team is private….even though pro bono.

          • They cannot withdraw without the Court’s permission and Judge Nelson is unlikely to grant permission this close to trial.

      • Nellie Nell says:

        So I understand that the attorney can not withdraw, but can Fogen fire them? If he were to do that, would the date then change for the trial?

        • No, Judge Nelson will not let them out this close to trial, even if he fires them, unless the defendant makes an unequivocal demand to represent himself.

          • Nellie Nell says:

            Thanks professor! J4T 6.10.13

          • That would be a hoot….fogen defending himself…..

            He does have an AA in criminal justice………well he had a party for it anyway….

          • dianetrotter says:

            Had the party! Ate the cake! Got the cap and gown! Walked in the ceremony! Possibly got the t-shirt! Got the degree – NOT!

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @MountainMan –

            re: “That would be a hoot….fogen defending himself….. He does have an AA in criminal justice………well he had a party for it anyway….

            Pat, expect Fogen to claim he was “admitted to the bar” — when in fact, he simply strolled over and picked up that Budweiser from the bar at his graduation bash (and without paying for it).

          • For all I be…..This Buds for me…….Just spent the afternoon hauling up a half ton of shit for the garden….Unloaded with a bottle of VO….and sum Buds……..

            Ya know Llama shit is the best you can get as fertilizer…..and a lot of people up here raise Llama’s…..Wouldn’t mind having one myself as a pack animal……

            The pic of Trayvon on horseback struck a nerve….

            HOODIES UP

            MMP OUT

    • pat deadder says:

      Will the prosecution bring out fogens use of Adderall or his past violence.,Can the black man who lived in the complex and said he had to jog somewhere else because of fogen testify .Or does that open the door for omara to bring up something about Trayvon.I was somewhat confused but from what I’m getting from the Professor it is only if the prosecution has a witness say good things about Trayvon.I’m disappointed I wanted DeeDee to be able to repeat that he was funny,a mama’s boy so the jury could get a better sense of who he was.Mr. Crump said they have asked Trayvon’s family not to comment now.God how horrible that would be to not be able to defend your deceased son.Imagine he called his Mother cupcake.I realize now the trial is about forensic evidence,nen call, 911 calls ,fogen’s statements to police,the screams,etc.just the facts.Wow what does that leave mutt and jeff.Their whole defense went to hell in a hand basket yesterday

      • SearchingMind says:

        Pat, ‘Silence’ is golden. Under circumstances as in the present situation ‘Silence’ communicates more and better than actual words. Ms. Fulton’s silence is in front of O’Mara telling him: ‘you are a fool, sir’! That Silence was validated by Judge Nelson’s Epic Smack-Down (professor’s phrase) of O’Mara and West.

      • Malisha says:

        IF the defense puts on evidence of an affirmative “self-defense” theory then the prosecution, on rebuttal, can put on ANY WITNESS THEY NEED to rebut what was put on during the defense’s turn to present their case. So Ibrahim Rashada could easily testify as a rebuttal witness; so could whoever the person is who was “escorted out” of the March 1, 2012 HOA meeting for complaining that his or her reports to police of Fogen patrolling with a gun were ignored. So could anybody whose information would tend to show that the self-defense theory was wrong. I believe. Correct me if I’m wrong, attorneys.

  30. kllypyn says:

    I’m working on an email i’m sending to certain news organizations. I will, post a preview when i’m done.

  31. kllypyn says:

    There was nothing wrong with his character.smoking weed does not make him a bad person. wanting to get a gun does not make him a bad person. Maybe he was mugged once,i know i was. and getting into a couple of fights does not make him a bad person.

    he not the first kid to get into a fight or 2 it happens with most kids. getting in trouble in doesn’t make him a bad person he was a good kid who sometimes screwed up like most of us.he deserved to from those mistake like most of us have and to teach his kid not to do the same thing.

    What about Zimmermans character. a man who attacked a female police officer a man who threw a woman across a room. a man who chased someones 8 year old son home. a man who harassed coworkers a man who harassed some of the residents in that neighborhood.

    the only thing relevant is what happened during the night of 2-26-2012. trayvon was just walking talking on the phone with a girl. he was not doing any thing that night to warrant the police being called. but since they were called he should have waited for them.He instigated to whole sequence of events which led to trayvon’s death. when trayvon started screaming rather than trying to calm the situation he put a bullet in his chest instead.

    Trayvon wasn’t a bad kid he screwed up a few times like most of us but he wasn’t a thug. i know a bad kid.he likes to try to pick fights with everyone in the neighborhood even the adults. He even tried to star something with me. i walk with a permanent limp do to an infection which nearly killed me and weakened both of my legs. I told him go on before i put my shoe up his #$%^$#. . i predict he will mess with the wrong person and endup dead or it’s jail. i could call him the black Zimmerman. i’m tired of their crap.

  32. The trial will start on time, unless the defendant flees to avoid prosecution, suffers a medical emergency that requires hospitalization, or dies.

    As for the rest, the defense has no defense.

  33. crazy1946 says:

    Professor Leatherman, in your honored opinion, can you think of any conceivable way that the trial will not start on time? If Fogen has a medical emergency, could and would that delay the trial? I do suppose if he were to try to run to Peru that would be a valid reason. I am just having a hard time understanding how MOM and West could be so incompetent as to not even be remotely ready for this trial despite having over a year and more than enough available financial resources to prepare. There has got to be some sort of good reason for what they are (are not) doing…. Perhaps they are going to wait till the very last moment and throw Shellie under the bus by having her confess to the murder? Or maybe MOM will have West confess to the murder (I wonder how long it will take West to process that?)….

    • Trained Observer says:

      West is one slow processor … who knows!

      • ic2fools says:

        ‘sumtin wrong with him’, ‘he’s high on drugs or sumtin’, now hes’ jus starin at Judge Nelson, yep sumptin wrong with West….

        • racerrodig says:

          “…he just keeps looking about…out of all the windows…”

          • Heaven forbid if he starts skipping :\

          • racerrodig says:

            “…shit…..he’s skipping…….” “…..he skipped….” just doesn’t really have that thug image…….just sayin’

            I’ll try it on my shop walkway……..hold on a minute…….

            ………….naaaaaa, I just can’t make a thuggish skip happen. The best is I still can’t do a suspicious walk.

            Fogen (in court hallway at noon recess) “……um, Mark, where’s Don??”

            Moron O “I think he skipped down to them men’s room, in fact, it’s um, undisputed”

            Fogen (thinks, it could happen, always breaking my balls)

          • ic2fools says:

            …now he’s walking toward Judge Nelson. wait a minute he;s swaying’. whats wrong with his mouth? it keeps opening and closing like a hooked fish…..

            snark 😛

          • racerrodig says:

            You guys are in rare form……

          • ic2fools says:

            ^_^

      • Trained Observer says:

        Don’t know what his deal is …

    • Soulcatcher says:

      Or maybe MOM will have a baez moment

      Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury,
      I said I would give you and explanation of why Jorge Zimmerman
      is not guilty, and you would say, Now I get it. Although Jorge admitted shooting a pblaack boy Travon Martin, It was an accident. He was molested for years.

      Well, I did have the rest of the story, but the Mr, said well skip to the end. I guess you’ll have to read it in the next book that comes out.

      Yes, several days ago his brother came out and said he was gay, and it was Jorge who told him it was going to be okay. He said the murder charges need to be dropped, he need to bring Jorge back home.

  34. bydesign2010 says:

    Wasn’t George also on drugs that night? Didn’t George also have a history of violence AND problems in school? Pot, meet Kettle. It’s laughable to see how people how can attempt to bring fourth all of these nonsensical ramblings about Trayvons so-called thugish behavior but neglect any mention of George’s. The fact remains that despite his disciplinary issues, Trayvon was never arrested. George was and his history of vigilantism and arrogance is well known and documented, yet disregarded. It’s disgusting.

    • texad says:

      @ bydesign2010

      Anybody who has heard GZ’s NEM call on 2.26.2012 would have to admit he sounded high as a kite. Drugs or pills or alcohol or a combination of all three.

      Wonder whether SPD collected any of that blood he slathered all over his nose and mouth so they could test it? Was it even his blood-or did he rub some of Trayvon’s blood on his face? Is this why he asked one of the witnesses whether there was any blood on his face? And is this why one of the first things he asked to do when he got to the police station was “permission” to wash the blood off his hands?

      The possibilities are endless. There are MANY co-conspirators in this case.

      • elcymoo says:

        I thought I saw an early report that the EMT cleaned blood off his face AND hands at the scene. Since the pic in the police car doesn’t show blood smeared on his cheeks, it’s possible that Z used his hands to wipe his head and face before he was examined by the EMT. I think he probably rubbed his head hard while he was ‘washing’ at the SPD, and started the blood flowing there again before the rest of the pictures were taken. Nothing else makes sense to me.

        I don’t think it was Trayvon’s blood, because there didn’t seem to be much of that on his hoodie or sweatshirt – more evidence that his heart stopped beating almost as soon as he was shot.

      • Leisa says:

        I thought his arms were also said to have had blood on them. As he is OCD, I am sure he scrubbed it all off in the SPD men’s room.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        @Leisa
        LIke Lady MacBeth: Out, out damn spot! Will all the perfumes of Arabia never sweeten this little hand?

      • Nellie Nell says:

        The witness that took that picture was there before the police and EMT arrived. The EMt is obviously lying about the murderer having 45% of his face covered in blood. They had no idea that the 1st witness on the scene had snapped that picture of the murderer before anyone else got there. It was the same fellow that called Shellie to “just tell her that I shot someone” that had taken the picture. EMT does not scrub a injured person clean anyway. Certainly not that clean as if you just showered. That EMT is a liar and was the only one to get on the stand to testify to that even though he was not involved with the “clean up” of the murderer.

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @Nelie –

          Re: “EMT is a liar and was the only one to get on the stand to testify to that even though he was not involved with the “clean up” of the murderer.”

          Every word in your post is correct.

          • racerrodig says:

            And the EMT, Kevin, was so arrogant with that I’ll set them straight attitude, he’s buzzard bait if he’s called.

            45 % covered in blood……he didn’t have 45% of his mustache covered in blood. Was he recalling the same event??

    • kllypyn says:

      trayvon’s main issue was cuttting classes

      • dianetrotter says:

        Many, many kids love to cut class. Unfortunately some try to hang out in my room for entertainment.

      • tonya B says:

        I remember cutting class when I was in school over 10 years ago…

      • kllypyn says:

        Trayvon bled mostly internally according to the autopsy report his chest was filled with blood. that’ why his lungs collapsed. they basically imploded. you will notice not a lot of blood on his shirts. he didn’t bleed out much at all. he basically died from severe internal bleeding.

        • The heart being stopped by the impact of the bullet would have led to a lot less bleeding also………basically the pump was shut off….

          Then he climbs on Trayvons back and spreads his arms……yeah just like in the movies…..

          I work to avoid using the word “hate” (unless it’s in reference to liver)

          The depths to which I despise & loathe this “person” knows no bounds…

      • hotheadpaisen says:

        Zimmerman’s too. I mean, he didn’t get a 0.5 GPA by actually GOING to class…

    • groans says:

      Love it !! 😆

      Pot, meet Kettle.

    • Leisa says:

      The man has panic attacks and I do not understand how that is not relevant to his reactions that night.

    • hotheadpaisen says:

      It is textbook confirmation bias.

  35. elcymoo says:

    I don’t even think that what O’Mara released should be referred to as ‘evidence’. A picture of a gun isn’t evidence that TM ever had or fired one. Pictures of pot plants aren’t evidence that TM grew any. References to a fight that he lost, which probably was just one of those staged ones, and a fight that he ‘watched’ aren’t evidence of violent or aggressive behavior.

    I found it interesting that although O’Mara released several ‘tweets’ that referred to pot, guns or fighting, he didn’t include a single one to substantiate that he and DD had exchanged ‘hostile’ exchanges that day.

    • Malisha says:

      It wasn’t “evidence” — it was evidency-type-stuff.
      Like “truthiness.”
      We need to coin a new word or phrase.

      OH I KNOW: Evidentiabilitinessationalism. Yeah. Yeah, that’s right, like THAT.

      • Tzar says:

        I like evidenceness
        lol

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Malisha – you’re too much!

        Evidentiabilitinessationalism !!! = #GZLC 😀 😀 😀

        Tweet it!

      • Trained Observer says:

        For anything presented by Team Fogen, I favor eviduncy or evidunciness.

      • groans says:

        😆 Yeah, like THAT!
        Reminds me of “supercalifragilisticexpialidocious”!

      • LeaNder says:

        That’s a great coinage Malisha. Although these long words are not easy to read. Even we Germans are allowed lately to hyphenate compounds if the contain 3 or more different words. 😉

        • racerrodig says:

          It’s an “Exhibit” until it is admitted by the Court as “Evidence” and O’ Mara is specifically stating a “..we have evidence….” that has not been verified as anything, let alone admitted. In one of the civil trials I was involved in the Plaintiff, who was a fraud from the word go, and his lawyer would drag exhibits in every morning that had not been on the exhibit list and to appease them, the Judge allowed us to look at them. Then when they went to mark Exhibits as Evidence, not 1 piece was allowed. The last laugh….you betcha !!

          I believe the Professor had a blog on this last year in fact.

          • LeaNder says:

            Interesting, racer. Thanks. Unfortunately he can claim he used the word loosely, not in its strict juridical sense. But now that you told me, I’ll pay more attention to how he uses it in interviews. 😉

          • racerrodig says:

            He thinks he “Slick Willie” the way he words things. I watch / listen to HLN on the TV in my shop most of the day and when they talk and say stuff like that, I’m “..no Moron, it’s an exhibit” “No stupid, that’s not undisputed, God are you a fool” “Damn ! no Taaffe, nobody looked in your window” all day long.,

    • BillT says:

      come on, everybody knows a teen boy and girl would NEVER argue about anything…..NEVER disagree on anything at all….if they argued clearly both of them are THUGS, shocking they havent already arrested DD and charged her with conspiracy to assault fogen!

    • Jun says:

      The texts are also really mild and Omara is twisting hard with it

      I personally do not see any fight tweets like Omara claims

      The texts could honestly be about a video game match

      The video they claim is Trayvon does not prove that Trayvon is violent, let alone it was even him in the video due to the fact the video is hearsay and unauthentic

      It’s more schemes and scams from Omara

      • BillT says:

        the person in the striped shirt in the video has a tattoo on his left arm, Trayvon Martin had no such tattoo…..in other words that is NOT Trayvon in the video.

      • towerflower says:

        I saw just a few of the texts, in it he talks about how he was suspended for fighting. We know this is not true and to me it only proves that TM lied in his posts trying to make himself look “better” to his friends. This type of exaggeration is not uncommon to many teens.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        The fight text is not from the phone, it’s from fb and unauthenticated.

      • gbrbsb says:

        @BillT

        Whether Trayvon or not, and whether it proves Trayvon is violent, which as Jun notes it does not, and I add, not even by a long shot, I have parsed the video frame by frame and in my professional opinion there is no tattoo on the left arm of the person purported to be Trayvon. Much as I admire and respect LLMPapa for his acute observations, his acerbic and cutting, videos focussing GZ’s discrepancies, and the huge amount of work he has done for this case, the dirty mottled effect on the upper arm of the alleged Trayvon visible in the still LLMPapa used for his video from the defence’s disclosure, and which resembles a tattoo in that frame, is IMO noise and concordant with the abysmal quality of the recording, and on the majority of frames, where the left upper arm of the subject is also visible, there is only clear skin.

      • groans says:

        @ gbrgsb – I don’t get it. What are you saying? Is there a tattoo on the left arm in the image(s), or not? And did Trayvon have a tattoo on his left arm, or not?

      • LeaNder says:

        The fight text is not from the phone, it’s from fb and unauthenticated.

        I noticed “fb” before, quite frequently it seems, but I never managed to get the meaning.

        But I wondered about that, didn’t O’Mara claim Trayvon took a video on his phone? He seemed to refer to the discovery in that context. Stutzman leaves this message at the end of her short article in the end, thus reinforcing earlier arguments about fights in this context:

        In court Tuesday, O’Mara mentioned for the first time new pieces of evidence damaging to Trayvon’s reputation: that the teenager had shot video of his buddies beating up a homeless man; that Trayvon had served as referee in another fight; and that he had won one fight after punching his opponent in the nose.

        this is in the discovery:

        Two videos from Trayvon Martin’s phone (redacted)

      • LeaNder says:

        towerflower, he claims in exchanges with several people he was suspended for something he did not do. He writes, he watched a fight and the teacher accused him of having hit “them”, which he denies. Nelson alluded to this context. Somehow like, does that mean everybody that watches a fight is basically violent?

        Strictly you have friends that share your basic tendencies. If you are violent and love to fight you surely would boast about it, but would you deny you did something? Apparently none of these people are very concerned about school suspensions, so why would he lie to them?

        The other fight I somehow understand. It was about a snitch, and I do not like them either. I find this interesting since he was going to meet another one and again he was falsely accused. With the outcome we know. Problem is, GZ did not even give him a chance to understand why he was following him. No, I don’t have a problem. Wouldn’t quite work to connect the new scenario with the old one in Trayvon’s mind, add to that he did nothing wrong. Or had to fear anything. So what was his motive?

        The story that puzzles me is the videotaping of the beaten up homeless guy. One would need to see it, what I am not sure about is, if one can really interpret it without further information.

        Basically it is a similar technique like using the images of his cousin in whatever type of peculiar wear as reference to Trayvon. Is this supposed to be some type of martial sports “costume”? Is the necklace Trayvon wore on some photos the same?

        Now we have some different guys beating up someone else and it is meant to show us whoever Trayvon was, or was prepared to do to a much larger extend for no reason at all?

    • texad says:

      @ elcymoo

      A Black hand holding a gun is NOT evidence. A pix of alleged marijuana plants is NOT evidence. A video of SOMEONE in an alleged fight is NOT evidence. Details of a teen’s suspension from school [which did NOT result in any arrests] in this era of zero telerance of everything is NOT evidence. Text messages and pix on a twitter page that is known to have been hacked after owner of page has been killed is NOT evidence. Presenting said text out of order to mean something other than original intent is NOT evidence.

      In other words-they got NOTHING.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      They might not even be pot plants. My mother grew Vitex (aka Chaste tree) which has the same sort of composite leaves as pot plants– it also has an attractive purple-blue flower spike– but the leaves sure gets people sniggering.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Japanese cut-leaf maple also has those leaves.

      • Leisa says:

        They are real pot plants but unless they can prove it is Trayvon’s planter forget it. Lol.

      • Rachael says:

        I am 100% positive those are pot plants. But so what? There is nothing illegal about having a picture of pot plants. It isn’t even like having paraphernalia. It is a picture and it means NOTHING. Even if he said it was a picture of HIS pot plants, does that prove it? He could have looked up a picture of pot plants on a computer, taken a picture of the screen, texted them to friends and said they were his plants, but anyone can say anything – and anyone who has kids with My Space or Facebook knows that.

      • Malisha says:

        People with pictures of pot plants are not allowed to walk in RTL? Shouldn’t there be a sign up?

    • lurker says:

      What?

      Hostile exchanges?

      What did i miss?

    • SearchingMind says:

      evi-Dunce / evi-Duh (i.e. O’Mara’s “evidence”)

      “$5” for each good answer.

      a. Is the “gun” real or toy?

      b. Is the hand holding the (toy? real?) gun Trayvon’s or someone else’s?

      c. Is the MJ “plant” ‘real or plastic’?

      d. Is the (plastic? Real?) MJ plant Trayvon’s or someone else’s?

      e. Is having a pic of (plastic? Real?) MJ plant on your phone somehow criminal or immoral? What are the standards for determining that?

      f. Is the person on the fight video Trayvon or someone else? Is it not a form of racism to think that the person on the fight video COULD be Trayvon simply because Trayvon is Black (@ Gbrbsb)?

      (Professor could you pls. remove the former post with the same content. I hit the send button by mistake prematurely)

  36. George Zimmerman defense fund is nearly broke

    http://on.thegrio.com/17u8upg

    ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) — George Zimmerman’s defense fund is almost depleted with less than two weeks until the former neighborhood watch leader goes on trial in the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin.

    Zimmerman’s attorneys posted on their website Wednesday that the fund had less than $5,000 left. The fund had almost $315,000 in January.

    The attorneys say they calculate that Zimmerman needs another $120,000 to put on a good defense or even another $75,000 to give him a fighting chance.

    Attorneys Mark O’Mara and Don West say they haven’t been paid a cent and many interns are working on the case without pay.

    They say they will need the money in the coming weeks to pay experts and for transcripts of depositions.

    Zimmerman is charged with second-degree murder. He is pleading not guilty.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Isn’t that interesting how this is always publicized just after OM does some brazen publicity stunt?!

      • racerrodig says:

        Hmmmmmm. funny you mention that.

      • ic2fools says:

        Ain’t that the truth. Those stunts’ have ran their course like a head cold, donations are dried up

        They’re counting backwards now. Giving Fogen his last gravy train bowl and hay for da’ dog house. Gas up the rides, pay the staff. My estimate durr-fense will be broke by noon 2morrow.

        hmmmm, who will keep paying to keep the website up and running?

    • SoulSisterWoo says:

      They did not think that the DEFENSE FUND would need to be used for GZ’s defense back in March when the fat $500,000 Peter Pan account was started… they have had more than enough to fund a defense.

      They are SO LUCKY their supporters are a bunch of Imbeciles … Because anyone in their right mind would not donate another cent to this fraudulent welfare fund.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I can understand that people will have their opinions no matter how cuckoo and that people will support Fogen. But they’re being systematically led to believe that he is innocent and his case can be won and I’m convinced that OM and West both know he’s guilty and that they can’t win this case. Not that this is unusual – what’s unusual is that they’re playing this out in public, tampering with the jury pool, and soliciting money all at the same time.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Oh – and demonizing the victim all at the same time . . . :-/

      • racerrodig says:

        For the longest time on HP, I’d shut a Zidiot up that was spewing lies with this one….”Have you donated to his defense fraud, er, fund today…..after all, he’s counting on you”

      • SoulSistaWoo says:

        The entire defense, and that includes the client, the lawyers, family and their supporters disgust me… It makes my stomach weak to know that a person is being “REWARDED” a financial windfall of upwards of a half a million dollars for killing a 17 year old black kid.

        This is sick!

      • bettykath says:

        Is it too late for fogen to back to jail and free up the bail money? As pointed out it would also cut the expenses of rent, food, ankle bracelet, etc. He’s violating the basic rules of begging for help: first do what you can to help yourself.

        • racerrodig says:

          If he goes back to jail, I believe the bail bondsman gets the money until this is finished…I could be wrong however.

          • The bondsman gets the $95K or whatever the percentage was that was paid for the bond to keep……..That’s his charge, profit and income for posting the bond……..and no longer have any lien on any property used to secure it…….

            So fogen has nothing to gain by going back to jail to get the bond money……….He will gain 3 hots and a cot……..FREE security…….and exercise running from Ramrod Jenkins….

          • racerrodig says:

            I was 1/2 right….I forgot he gets 10% period.

        • cielo62 says:

          Bettykath- nope. The nail money is just a percentage of the million pledged. That is the bondsman’s fee. No matter what, GZ is out all that cash.

          Sent from my iPod

      • Trained Observer says:

        There’s no bond money coming back to Fogen. The percentage paid is the cost of doing business — the bonding agency had to front the million bucks. What got posted by Fogen goes to the bonding agency for debt service and fees.

        It might have been a different deal if Fogen or his lying family had put up property as collateral for the second million-dollar bond — but they didn’t.

        Such a pity, Fogen thought he was being so smart when he had his Missus lie under oath about his beg fund profits. This stupidity has cost them a bundle in a jacked up bond and a whole lot more.

        Of course that will be water under the bridge when Fogen goes off to the pen, squeeling like a pig about how others are to blame.

      • tinytruthseeker says:

        And yet they keep donating…. by the hundreds …240 people since this vile begging stunt took place….what was it that the professor posted awhile back?

        Anyone who supports George Zimmerman is a racist…
        Anyone who sends him money is a stupid racist…

        I agree completely….

        • Hey now…..I’m one of those 240 people…..I donated 2 cents…..3 times….for a total contribution of 6 cents…thru Paypal…..and received a personalized thank you card for each….

          He even called me his friend……Shucks….That made my widdle black heart bweed purple Panther piss…

          • tinytruthseeker says:

            And you cost him money each time you donated…. which makes YOU a HERO!!!!

            I know someone else who suggested we all donate 2 cents in a flurry… causing fees that would actually put the peterpan fund in the red! I would have done this but just couldn’t make myself (or get my Grandparents permission) to even go to the site… I get nauseous just thinking about it…

          • That was the whole idea….giving him my 2 cents….and YES the cards were personalized (defense fund money) and the stamps he used?…The US Flag stamp with Justice printed across it !!!!!!!!!!

            So….$.30 Paypal + $.46 postage + price of card $? – $.02 = – $.74 + -? (for card)….prolly a buck to the negative each time……

          • tinytruthseeker says:

            Yup…YOU are another one of my heroes…. Thank you pat!

      • Nellie Nell says:

        Even more sickening is the fact that George rarely worked hard when he did hold a job. From what I have read about him is that he has been irresponsible for his entire life, mooching off others and using the government for financial aid under the pretense of going to school. That he found another scam to “to live the good life” from “Peter Pan” once he used his evils to kill a teenaged boy as he begged for his life. You just can’t get any lower than this, but then again, nothing would surprise me.

        Trayvon had more money in his pocket than the murderer had in his bank account at the time he was slaughtered by this disgusting being walking around looking normal. He has mental health issues that were never addressed during his 28 years. Hell, even Jr has mental health issues that need attention.

        There is no defense and the scam was started so that he could leave the country with a quarter million in his pocket and go somewhere where he thought he’d live in peace. So much for that plan. Now that he has lived the good life where he has been able to eat non stop, he will have his trial and will then be sent to prison where he will stay a minimum of 25 years. He will get his and I am going to remain confident that their tricks will fail and they will disgust the jury from the start!

    • crazy1946 says:

      There are six business days left until the start of the trial, and MOM now needs money to hire “experts”? He needs money for transcripts now? I wonder if what he is doing is giving a Fogen a valid excuse for a retrial because of incompetent representation? Not even a poor divorce attorney would be this stupid, would they?

    • Ty Flair says:

      If you ask me that 5,000 is to much to defend him,anyway he need to get use to that prison food go buy him some spam and pork-n-beans.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        : D

      • ic2fools says:

        Ramen Fogen can buy a 5-pack of Ramen for a buck, and swallow his spit when he get’s thirsty….

      • Soulcatcher says:

        And what about Jorge, Shellie, family and friends? Jorge needs to put that killer mobile for sale and if they have a second car sale that too.He probably won’t need it, and neither will wifey. Ever her of the Bus. And sell everything else. All the family does is beg. Sell your shit, he’s your corn. Have a bake sale, get your church involved, and Shellie, get your fat ass up and get a job, nobody is out to get you, get a job at Chucky Cheese, they’re always lookin for rats. Jorge would be so proud. What about your white token friend, I thought all the proceeds from the book were going to the def. Should have been a best seller with all your thousands of AA friends and wild bill and the outlaws. And Taffee, I thought a lemonade booth, but you been holding out with that experience mentoring all those kids on drugs. Shoot, go round em up, all thoose black teens that have been robbin your neighborhood, they need some mentoring, cause black=thugs on drugs, and hey, you don’t even need to plant that corn, it’s already home grown!!!Jr it’s no surprise about you coming out, yearly, you’re not helping Jorge out, but I do commend you with your public speaking skills, alittle winey, might I suggest you give Ru a call, I love watching that show, I think you’d do well. Come on friends and family, help a decent American.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I love the expression on her face – she looks like she’s biting her tongue. She looked that way yesterday while interviewing OM too.

    • Malisha says:

      No, no. Not “George said”! “George said and Junior repeated and Robert Senior said ‘absolutely’ and Chief (oops, ‘then chief’) Billy Lee believed”! Got that? In*con*tro*vert*i*ble.

      Remember “Fifty Thousand Frenchmen can’t be wrong”?

      Well THREE Afro-Peruvians and an ex-cop … well … um…

    • Jun says:

      The only people who witnessed the actual altercation, after Fogen stalked and terrorized Trayvon via car foot and firearm, were witness 8 and 18 and they both place Fogen as the aggressor

      There’s also no DNA transfer whatsoever on Trayvon to show that his claims occurred so that’s really low brow to try and frame a dead kid

    • Ty Flair says:

      No lawyer can be this dumb,O’mara is up to something he know he have know case. O’mara took this case for the money and fame.

      • Nellie Nell says:

        And he is failing at both!

      • KA says:

        The issue is, it is all a money raising scheme.

        Notice, it works…he raised 30K plus in two days…

        There is no denying, lies and deceit make money…it just rots your soul and eliminates your integrity…but it surely is financially successful in the short term…

        That is all they cared about. Guaranteed, MOM can’t stand GZ any more than the rest of us can.

    • kllypyn says:

      Does he not know the the evidence shows Trayvon never touched him,although since zimmerman followed and chased him he would have been within his rights to pop him one if he chose.

    • ay2z says:

      George said??

      in the words of the gun fumbing, fashionista extrordinaire…..

      “ThassssRIght!!”

  37. Rachael says:

    It seems to me anyway that if he turned over the raw data, he turned it over. What MO’M wants to do with it from there is up to him. IMO, he should have hired an expert to interpret the data, just as he would when the 911 call with screaming is heard in the background. Why should the state have to hire their own specialists and experts and MO’M then use them and even in some cases try to tell them how much they should be charging for their services. What is wrong with the guy?

    I know he knows full well what he is doing and he just “wants to get this out there,” but doesn’t he know how ugly it is and how it makes him and his client look even less truthful and believable? Does he REALLY think this helps his client?

  38. Jun says:

    Actually I heard the guy was fired around Dec 2012, so he can only testify up to a certain date of what he witnessed plus he could be blowing hot air because he’s mad he got fired

    From what I remember from the hearing

    There were cell phone forensics done and Bernie said most of the raw data is irrelevant but if he wants them, he can have them, or that some of it was work product

    Omara asked for a report and Bernie was not sure of which report but Bernie said he would try to find whatever report Omara is seeking and the judge ruled that the defense can go to FDLE and ask for anything they feel they need, baring objections from FDLE

    I think it’s more hot air

    • Two sides to a story says:

      GZLC has been heavily soliciting $5 donations from Fogen supporters since this brazen display of nonsense, which sort of proves the point that his dramas are mostly about funding the defense.

      • Nellie Nell says:

        Yep!

        Zimmerman’s attorneys posted on their website Wednesday that the fund had less than $5,000 left. The fund had almost $315,000 in January.

        The attorneys say they calculate that Zimmerman needs another $120,000 to put on a good defense or even another $75,000 to give him a fighting chance.

      • Rachael says:

        So that’s their angle? If they lose, it is everyone else’s fault for not sending them enough money?

        Ewwwwww

      • Jun says:

        This is why greed traps you inside a golden hell

        If Omara would have simply closed the fund shown all the paperwork for the money used, he could have gotten state funding and everything would have been paid for and a defense would have cost them nothing

        Instead they beg for blood money and then do not even bother spending it on a defense or perhaps the most noble would be to donate it to a real charity and apologize to the Martin family

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Jun – “perhaps the most noble would be to donate it to a real charity and apologize to the Martin family”

        Maybe there’s still hope! :/

      • bettykath says:

        If they had claimed indigence, what would fogen have lived on?

      • Trained Observer says:

        Maybe the Missus would have needed to get a job. By declaring indigence his defense would have been paid for, and by checking into the Seminole County Jail, he could have gotten three hots and a cot plus free medical care. H e wouldn’t need to pay the roughly $10 per day for his ankle monitor.

        So why did they play it this way, and blow through the $300,000-plus? Because the dummies (that would include O’Mara) thought the gravy train would keep on keepin’ on.

        Once the NRA and other gun nuts realized Fogen was an unsuitable poster boy for their cause, the cash flow dwindled to less than a trickle. All the while Fogen kept ordering extra cheese and pepperoni on his jumbo pies.

    • groans says:

      @ Jun, re:

      Actually I heard the guy was fired around Dec 2012, so he can only testify up to a certain date of what he witnessed plus he could be blowing hot air because he’s mad he got fired.

      I read the same thing – but it pertains to Wesley White, the guy who testified yesterday. But White’s client, the one who will testify on June 6th and/or 7th, is a different story. I get the impression that that guy currently works for Angela Corey’s office – and may have been placed on administrative leave yesterday.

      Do you have any scoops on White’s client (the one who will testify NEXT week)? Thanks.

      • Jun says:

        Well it still means nothing nonetheless

        Bernie covered that a while back

        He gave the raw data

        He said it’s not his job to connect the dots for the defense and it’s work product

        and Bernie was not sure what report Omara wanted and he said he was not sure he had the report

  39. Ezz-Thetic says:

    O’Mara is scum.

  40. Two sides to a story says:

    Is there any chance at all, Professor, that the court will sanction GZLC for violation of the rules of evidence?

    • I think Judge Nelson is disgusted with O’Mara and West.

      I do not know her and have not appeared before her, so I do not know if she will do that.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        So there’s nothing that requires her to do so if an attorney gets out of line? She has the option to ignore GZLC’s violations of FL protocol?

      • groans says:

        I would have thought that the “publication” by West of in-chambers discussions that were not supposed to be disclosed might have led to a contempt order by the judge. But it didn’t.

        In your experience, are contempt orders typically issued only for VERY egregious or outrageous behavior during trial?

        Thanks.

  41. PiranhaMom says:

    follow’ …

    WITH THANKS!

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