Zimmerman: Judge rules that evidence published by defense last week is not relevant or admissible

Tuesday, May 28, 2013

Good afternoon:

Judge Nelson denied the defense motion for a continuance of the trial.

None of the information about Trayvon, which caused the big hullabaloo last week after the defense improperly released it for publication to the Orlando Sentinel, will be admitted into evidence at the trial because all of it is irrelevant and inadmissible.

However, Judge Nelson granted O’Mara’s request for an evidentiary hearing on his motion for sanctions against BDLR for alleged discovery violations pertaining to that information. Unfortunately, she had to continue the hearing to June 6th because O’Mara did not have all of the witnesses he needed to present his case.

I do not believe that he has a legitimate argument, since the evidence is not admissible at trial or exculpatory, and the prosecution disclosed it to the defense in timely fashion back in January. O’Mara claims that the disclosure was not timely because he was provided with raw data that he could not interpret.

However, he specifically asked for raw data, which is a proper request, and he should have retained an expert and/or the software program that is used to interpret it. His failure to do that cannot be blamed on BDLR.

FYI: Defense counsel should routinely ask for raw data, since it is the actual result and less susceptible to misinterpretation. Note that O’Mara waited until after the panel of 500 potential jurors were summoned to jury service. His delay in filing his motion for sanctions suggests that he was more interested in gaining a tactical advantage with that motion than he was in obtaining an interpretation of the raw data.

Judge Nelson granted the defense request for a Frye hearing regarding the admissibility of expert testimony identifying the person who uttered the terrified death shriek. She scheduled the hearing for June 6th and 7th and will permit expert witnesses on both sides to testify by videophone.

The defense still has not endorsed any expert witnesses. Remains to be seen, if any legitimate experts will disagree with the State’s experts and if they have the money to pay an expert. I doubt that they do.

At a press conference after the hearing, Robert Zimmerman, Jr. aggressively promoted the conspiracy theory that I wrote about in my last post.


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488 Responses to Zimmerman: Judge rules that evidence published by defense last week is not relevant or admissible

  1. ic2fools says:

    Looks like States’ IT Director Ben has lotsa ‘splanin to do. IC a IT fool named Ben that got involved outside the scope of his job, which will cost him his JOB! No symphathy he knew the consequences of those actions.

    O’Mara “he works for the State, at least momentarily….”

    Ahhh buh bye Ben….

    Just watched the hearing again and realized it was the States IT Director who started a hot mess. Giving Omar the foolish Discovery Sanctions idea.

    zimmerman hearing part 7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjmJjhhM1ss

    • Valerie says:

      I guess the State IT Director Ben, the dog whistle blower, will be butt hurt to learn he lost his job over photos deemed irrelevant and non-exculpatory. Prolly got caught up in Omaras Discovery Sanction Idea.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        God’s plan.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Not to mention that the judge put off hearing about MOM request for sanctions against BDLR, a hearing that will probably result in an action of some kind against MOM.

          • Ya know MOM upside down is WOW?

            Had to do an airyass headstand to figger that one out…….

          • racerrodig says:

            Now ya did it…just when I had the headstand completely out of my head, up go her feet again. For the record, MOM upside down is normal…..just sayin’

      • ic2fools says:

        “Prolly got caught up in Omaras Discovery Sanction Idea”.

        Yep, he has learned ‘lay with dogs ya’ get fleas, play with a dogs ya’ get bit’.

        Would have loved to see the look on Bens’ face when he found out what he leaked boom-a-ranged. Because Omara surely is exposing any and everyone that given him info.

        Now Ben is being Subpoena to sit in the box and ”splan his betrayal. In front of those whom he worked with and trusted him.

        Bernie and Guy will not pitch Ben a soft ball cross, they’re about to spank that azz.

        Highly possible he is the one who leaked the crime scene photos and other info to the press. There will be an investigation.

        I’m wonder if States’ IT Directors’ position must abide by rules of confidentially and the consequences if one were to breach those rules.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          You’d better believe he’s bound by those rules. Even the janitor who works in the State Prosecutors office is bound by the rules. Otherwise he’d be selling bags of trash to all comers, newspaper reporters and other interested parties would be going through the SP’s trash.

          • ic2fools says:

            Thanks Lonnie. IC charges after Ben actions have been investigated. His testimony next week will be used against him in another court of law.

            That;s just cra-cra, to put one’s job and freedom in jeopardy for anything, especially for Fogen!

      • ic2fools says:

        Haha, just how many nutters on the durr-fense witness list.

        Its’ been quiet lately, all I hear are squirrels scampering and asking ‘where my nuts?” (snark) Hecksee Omars’ got ’em…..

  2. Stormwatch says:

    The Orlando Sentinel is reporting that the defense team is out of money. 400K collected. 20K in the red.

  3. http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/an-american-mourning-a-remembrance-of-emmett-till-and-rodney-king-and-trayvon-martin/news/2012/08/28/47674

    Mississipi 2012. George Zimmerman shoots Trayvon Martin as part of his “neighborhood watch” in Sanford, Florida; he claims that when he approached Martin and questioned him, Martin tried to attack him, and that he ended up using his gun in self-defense. The words he puts in Martin’s mouth to justify his actions towards the victim are reminiscent of Bryant and Milam’s claims that as they were beating Till, he was shouting back at them, calling them bastards, telling them that he was their equal, and that he had white girlfriends. As Zimmerman has already lied to the public, it is hard to know what to believe.

    In an interview with Fox News’ Sean Hannity, Zimmerman says that he has no regrets about getting out of the car the evening of Martin’s death, against the advice of the police. He then says the shooting of Trayvon Martin was the “will of God.” To some, Trayvon should never have been in the neighorhood in the first place. It is Zimmerman who is the real victim, a folk hero. A judge revoked Zimmerman’s bail because he and his wife lied about how much money they had at the time of the bail hearing, not admitting to the $135,000 they had collected in donations on their website. Zimmerman’s lying didn’t surprise me, but the money he raised did. In the documentary Emmett Till: The Untold Story, Dan Wakefield of the The Nation recalls:

    “There were little jars for people to drop money in, in stores, in the drugstore, dry cleaners and commercial places in the town of Sumner for the defense of the two men accused of (Till’s) murder, and I must say it was a strange, eerie feeling, a very uncomfortable feeling, to see these little jars of money being collected to defend two men who it seemed (everyone) understood were the murderers.”

  4. The 21st Century Public Lynching of Trayvon Martin


    Where is this country headed when we have the main stream media complicit in the 21st century PUBLIC lynching of Trayvon Martin? And this means you CNN, MSNBC, HLN, & Fox News.

    My friend and I talked last night about our grandsons. My friend’s grandson is 1 year old & mine is 4. We shared how much love and joy they’ve brought and will continue to bring into our lives. Unfortunately, when I hung up my phone from the call, my heart sank with a sadness like no other. My anger and rage will be used to fight for the justice that Trayvon Martin and all INNOCENT black boys and men deserve.

    We want a just and lawful world for our sons, grandsons, uncles, fathers, and brothers to live in. WE can not allow the media or George Zimmerman and his defense drag and mischaracterize Trayvon Martin or his death by the murderous hands of George Zimmerman.

    Mark O’Mara, the media, and racist whites are demonizing an innocent child like he deserved to be shot and killed in the street like a rabid dog. It takes deep deep hate to publicly demonize a dead child. What we are witnessing is the 21st century public lynching of Trayvon Martin.

  5. ay2z says:

    The OS story posted earlier today, is updated now with a lot more info quoting MOM.

    NOTE the ‘update’ is by Rene Stuzman, no longer the article by Jeff W posted earlier. RS says by trial, the jury might have a more ‘menacing’ view of Trayvon.

    By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel
    5:34 p.m. EDT, May 28, 2013

    SANFORD – At the start of George Zimmerman’s murder trial, which begins in two weeks, expect Trayvon Martin to be portrayed as an innocent teenager, an unarmed 17-year-old who was killed while walking home in the rain.

    By the time it concludes, however, jurors may have a more menacing view of him.

    In rat-a-tat fashion, Circuit Judge Debra S. Nelson buzzed through a series of pretrial motions on Tuesday, laying the groundwork for what jurors will hear during the second-degree murder trial, expected to be one of the most watched this year.

    One of the judge’s clearest rulings: Defense attorneys will not get more time to prepare. Jury selection will begin June 10, when 500 potential jurors are scheduled walk through the courthouse doors.

    And, in general, she banned defense attorneys from introducing reputation-damaging evidence about Trayvon — but she left lots of wiggle room.

    Pictures: Child stars gone bad

    If defense attorneys can convince her during the course of the trial that it’s relevant, she may allow them to put on evidence showing that at the time of his death, Trayvon had marijuana in his system; that he had discipline problems at school; and that he had a history of fighting.

    After Tuesday’s two-hour hearing, defense attorney Mark O’Mara predicted he would be able to show their relevance.

    “I’m hopeful I’ll be able to lay a foundation to get it in,” he said.

    Specifically, he was referring to text messages found on Trayvon’s cell phone, which indicate, among other things, that the Miami Gardens teenager was involved in competitive fighting.

    “I’m happy with the judge’s rulings, “O’Mara said.

    The issue of Trayvon-as-fighter is key because Zimmerman, a 29-year-old former Neighborhood Watch volunteer, says he shot Trayvon in self-defense after the teenager attacked him on Feb. 26, 2012, in Sanford.

    Also happy with the judge’s rulings was Benjamin Crump, an attorney for Trayvon’s family, who interpreted them as outright bans.

    The judge did issue some of those: Jurors will not hear about Trayvon’s prior marijuana use nor will they see a photo of him wearing a set of gold teeth.

    Those rulings came because last week, defense attorneys released a glut of evidence, including photos from Trayvon’s cell phone that showed potted marijuana plants, a semiautomatic handgun and text messages revealing discipline problems at school and that his mother had asked him to move out.

    Crump on Tuesday described that as defense attorneys “polluting the jury pool.”

    “Trayvon Martin did not have a gun,” Crump said. “Trayvon Martin did not get out of his car and chase anyone. Trayvon Martin did not shoot and kill anyone.”

    In court Tuesday, O’Mara mentioned for the first time new pieces of evidence damaging to Trayvon’s reputation: that the teenager had shot video of his buddies beating up a homeless man; that Trayvon had served as referee in another fight; and that he had won one fight after punching his opponent in the nose.

    Trayvon’s mother, Sybrina Fulton, was at Tuesday’s hearing, but her attorneys would not let her answer questions.

    Asked about Trayvon shooting video of his friends beating a homeless man, family attorney Darryl Parks said that was irrelevant.

    George Zimmerman did not attend Tuesday’s hearing, but his brother, Robert Zimmerman Jr. did and afterward called on prosecutors to drop the charge.

  6. ay2z says:

    Coincidence of timing that WFTV makes this their top story?

    I do not buy pure coincidence to the story, why have police raised this, or did WFTV decide to investigate all on their own without prompting?

    This can’t help but support and back up, what the defense did to get at the jurors. Jurors see this, and none of the case releases, then get a hint at trial about Trayvon’s gun and fights and pot, they will know school fighting is an issue and parents are also to blame for not calling police.


  7. smokeegyrl says:

    They are really talking about Bernie DeLaRionda, saying he will be going to jail for a crime. Could that attorney be a disgruntled employee getting back at him? I don’t understand what is going on? I hope they get O’Mara and West for the wrong doings as well.

    • ay2z says:

      “… wrong doings as well?”

      Do you mean BDLR has done something wrong? What has he done wrong? The state can only defend itself through court poceedures, can’t go talk to cameras about evidence or problems of getting discovery.

      So what, using Shakespeare quotes.

      • racerrodig says:

        It’s typical Zidiocy. Last year they claimed Corey would be arrested and jailed for over prosecution and Bernie would be fired.

        Hey Zidiots……How did that work out.

        Now lets talk about that “No Arrest Guarantee” a little more.

    • ay2z says:

      I never heard anyone say anyone was ‘going to jail’ on the video of the last 5 minutes after court with cameras still on. Where specifically do you hear this?

    • ks says:

      “They” who? The usual suspects? lol. BDLR didn’t commit a crime and won’t be going to jail. What is that attorney or IT guy or whomever “they” are going on about going to say?

      That the State ran a report from the raw data in TM’s phone and based on the results, inadmissable, irrelevant and non-excaulpatory, they were not required to give it to the defense so they didn’t tell them about it. So?

      • racerrodig says:

        And as the old saying goes “…we all know who “they” are now don’t we”

        Feel free to add to the list

        Zidiot’s, malcontents, racists, morons, hate mongers, white supremacists, Outhousers, KKK dudes, gun nutZZ, zero’s, nobodies, whack jobs, pigs, dorks, Afro – Peruvian nimrods….

      • Jun says:

        I sort of recall the hearing and Bernie did say something along those lines

        Bernie was also not sure what report they wanted and most of the raw data was not relevant but said he thinks they can have it but it may be work product

        I think they are just retaliating because the only lawyer who has a probable of going to prison for a crime is Omara for scheming the court in regards to money and a passport, which was material to the bond hearing, among other things, such as tampering with evidence (by falsely presenting it)

      • Malisha says:

        It reminds me of a kid for whom I used to baby-sit. When he wanted to bully his sister I would separate him and he would scream at me: “I will cut off your HEAD! I will put you in JAIL! I will make you DEAD! You will be electrocuting [he couldn’t say “electrocuted”] to death with your head chopped off!” His sister actually used to get scared when he screamed like this. I told her, “Don’t worry, honey, he’s just being angry. He’s allowed to scream but he’s not allowed to hurt anybody.”

        “BDLR will go to jail; Corey will disbarred; Trayvon Martin will be convicted and executed all over again; the Fulton-Martins will be disgraced because they had a bad kid; everyone will be punished because Fogen is not allowed to be prosecuted!”

        Don’t worry. They’re allowed to scream. And Dog’s allowed to bark and whine and yowl at the moon. 13 days, Fogen…

  8. parrot says:

    An article by Michael Skolnik:


    • Two sides to a story says:

      Thx, parrot.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        I went over there and left a comment, then I went to the Globalgrind and found a bigot from Ocean County New Jersey and left him a little info: He doesn’t seem to realize he’s living in a toxic area, a “Super Fund” site. Not to mention that Ocean County NJ is voted one of the most racially bigoted counties in the state. Bet he gets a kick out of that info, eh?

    • cielo62 says:

      OMG! Does he read here? That “Hoodies up!” Is catching on!

      Sent from my iPod

  9. ay2z says:

    Did anyone notice how Z Junior was seated beside Natalie Jackson and the Trayvon’s parents lawyers, just down from Sybrina. ? He might have chosen that seat for a purpose, to get on camera next to the family of his brother’s victim?

    (of coruse Frank Taafee was there, (seen on the whole hearing bideo at the beginning, right side, think you can see him in this too)

    • ay2z says:

      Audio at the defense table is left on at the lawyer’s tables as the state and the defense appear to be discussing scheduling.

      They obviously don’t know it.

      Listen starting before 4 minutes, where BDLR says “with all due respect, that’s being unfair, Mark”.

      MOM replies “you deserve…. [inaudible for low volume in places]

      There’s more up to where the audio cuts off but not getting all of the audio, maybe someone else can.

      • KA says:

        I heard it. They are definitely not having a happy exchange. It is quite obvious they do not like each other.

        Stark difference in the mutual politeness we saw 6 months ago. MOM’s repeated motions for sanctions on unimportant items has soured the State’s office.

        He had better look out in the next few hearings and trial. I really wouldn’t want to make Bernie mad…

        [..you wouldn’t like me when I am angry…]

      • ay2z says:

        wow, hope someone can make a clear copy or listen on good equipment to get context and more out of htis.

        It was the defense table with the mic’s on, unless they moved from O’M’s table to in front of the podium with its mic on. The controllers did not turn off their courtroom audio once court was over, and let this recording run and run.

        A mad BDLR might just make the jurors less compassionate towards the state, if not, more compassionate to the poor defense lawyer.

      • ay2z says:

        KA, the reponse was about ‘jail’ comment and I put it in the wrong reply place– didn’t mean to post that reply to your comment. Sorry.

        The defense is pushing BDLR around. HE has his hands tied by rules and ethics and professional contuct he follows, whereas, the independent business person, MOM, has no employer to call him out on anything, except defendant, and he’s getting the benefit from his lawyer’s behaviour.

      • FactsFirst says:

        Bernie is just allergic to the defense’s bullshit… He has one of those “I aint got time for BS” attitudes.. It not that Bernie’s hands are tied, it’s just that Bernie all about BUSINESS… He REFUSE to entertain O’Haha and his BS.. He’s FOCUSED on handing O’Haha his ass at trial… Everything else is irrelevant in Bernie’s book.. Y’all better stop sleeping on Bernie… TRUST and BELIEVE he’s ready for WAR!… It’s not even business anymore, IT’S PERSONAL for Bernie… O’Mara stepped on one too many of Bernie’s toes and he’s gonna reget it at that frye hearing..It’s on! I can’t wait….

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I noticed that Jr. moved there – he was originally on the other side of the room, if I’m not mistaken, right before the hearing began.

      • racerrodig says:

        The shit they do is enough to piss off the Pope. I saw that…and Taaffe last night. I think I’ll just make some new stuff up. I think I’ll call Nancy Grace again for more face time.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        He was probably advised by MOM or his father to try to not seem like a racist.

  10. I know this is bad of me…….Oh well

    Just watched joonyers statement yesterday……..Is he looking for a role in the sequel to brokeback mountain?

    Like maybe backpackin robbie…

    Oh the worst insult………WTF kind of insults have spewed from his piehole?

  11. ay2z says:

    This is a shock, who’d a thunk it???

    OS headine and story by Jeff W. (complete story, need to take advantage of media at least to add the last two sentences of the state’s position.)

    George Zimmerman lawyers: We’re ‘out of money,’ need $120K for trial

    George Zimmerman’s defense team said on Wednesday that the defense is “out of money,” less than two weeks before jury selection is set to begin in his murder trial.

    The defense’s trust account has less than $5,000, the Zimmerman lawyers said in a blog post, and more than $20,000 in liabilities. Zimmerman and his attorneys have been soliciting donations for his defense since early in the case, and based on their updates have raised — and apparently spent — about $400,000 already.

    In their latest update Wednesday, the defense team set an ambitious goal: Another $120,000, the post says, would give Zimmerman “the defense he deserves,” while $75,000 would be the “barest minimum” for a “fighting chance.”

    The defense says that Zimmerman’s lead counsel Mark O’Mara and co-counsel Don West are working for free, and have utilized unpaid interns and underpaid staffers. Over $26,000 in donations have come in over the past two months, the defense team writes, “a sizable sum, but less than half of what we needed.”

    Prosecutors say Zimmerman profiled, pursued and fatally shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin Feb. 26, 2012, in Sanford. Zimmerman says he was attacked and beaten by the unarmed teen, and fired in self-defense.

    Zimmerman is charged with second-degree murder. His trial is set to begin June 10.


    • BillT says:

      a INNOCENT person could defend them self FREE, just take the stand and tell the TRUTH.

      • ay2z says:

        Like this?

      • KA says:

        ay2z –

        That made me tear up. You are so right, there is another power to deal with outside JN.

        .but honestly, I could care less if he “gets in the box”. I do not believe he will testify at all. If he does, I suspect he will weave his own story.

        He is the only one who gets to live with HIM. If he wants to tell his own fabricated “truth” to racist communities in this country…please do.

        We are the only ones that can answer for the hate that decays our souls.

        • “We are the only ones that can answer for the hate that decays our souls.”

          Been there….done that…..letting anger at someone live rent free in my head…..by my own choice…..not good..

          Someone once told me “Pat I know it says “Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death”…..It DOES NOT mean you pitch a damn tent there”……

          Good friend 🙂

      • ay2z says:

        and “He wasn’t running…. he was skipping” is a clever substitution towards the idea of non-smoothing ambulating, that will be substituted by swaing and impairment, at trial.

        Fogen said it, has to be true, even if he changed his story, he tweeked his version to support his 911 NEN call about ‘he’s on drugs or something’ and finally remembered what word to use to describe ‘how was he running… Was he running to get away from you….” etc question by Serino.

        Hannity interview will come in useful to this charge being played out, and maybe decided by the court of potential jurors. No need for trial.

    • KA says:

      I am only hoping he has very few supporters left for this….

      But really, doesn’t matter much if they get the money, their trial will be the same. If they are “utilizing free interns and underpaid staff” for the past year, what is two more weeks?

      They know it is their last chance to see money out of this thing and they are probably in debt to their eyeballs with it. Do they mention hiring experts?

      Bull, that they were trying to “save FL money” on not declaring Indigency to the court. They were doing it in the beginning when they got “caught”, how did they suddenly get benevolent to the State (like by asking them to pay for their experts and pay silly sanctions)?

      Everything is a spin job…

    • Two sides to a story says:

      First GZLC creates the drama, then asks for $$$. Every time.

  12. disappointed says:

    I just finished looking at a list of things that is suppose to be held until trial. Not for release to public at this point because of “fair trial” so does anyone know what 911 called the report is speaking of?

    • looneydoone says:

      I wonder if the 911 call you’re asking about might be this one
      >>”At approximately 1910 hours, on 2/26/2012, 911 dispatchers received a call from a resident of the complex. The resident advised of a BM who was at the complex between the townhouses. The caller stated that the male should not have been in the area and observed the male while out walking his neighborhood watch” from pg 2 of 2; Case 24023 report by Tara Malphurs, Forensic Investigator, Volusia County ME’s office
      ESC CAD #12-0570199
      Agency Report #201250001136
      Event #2012057167
      Transferred to SAO
      For the Public-no
      I believe this call is being held back until trial. I can’t find any thing in discovery released to date that corresponds with it

      • If that caller is someone other than fogen then we do have a conspiracy here………frank the tanked was second in command of the NHW….co-captain or some such shit………

        Gonna be interesting….

        I wonder now what lies fogen has told mom…….and what info he didn’t tell mom?

      • PiranhaMom says:

        @Loonie –

        When I read that last year I figured Malphurs goofed – and was referring to the 311 call.

      • looneydoone says:

        Piranha Mom,
        I don’t think Tara Malphurs is/was mistaken, or confused between fogen’s NEN call and a separate 911 call

        Attached with her report are her handwritten field notes that read, in part
        Pertinent Info Notes “face down, confronted by resident, fought, then shot to ground. 911 call”
        I searched for ECS CAD#-0570199
        and what came up was undecipherable binary coding
        Please note the report states
        “Transferred to SAO” and “For the Public-no”

        I believe a 911 call was placed by a male resident, but not fogen. Taaffe?

        We’ll just have to wait and see

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @Looney –

          At that time I saw it as simply sloppy work by Tara Malphurs on what she would consider a run-of-the mill case. with an unknown dead teen. Many folks have termed the 311 call 911 because the general public can’t relate to “311” at all – and likely the ME’s office get no other cases involving a 311 call.

          She may have thought the call should not be released to the public (because maybe Sanford PD recommended that at the time) but the new young Mayor fought for its release and overruled her.

          Will be interesting to see if there’s a 911 call that came in from Taaffe – THAT would be explosive! (“Hic!”)

      • cielo62 says:

        looneydoone~ That is interesting but then again, might not be anything. There are many “BMs” that live there. Why would anyone walking between buildings be suspicious? There is nothing to indicate that this particular male was Trayvon. Nor that he was doing anything more than taking a short cut. The fact that the caller’s name is not available makes me wonder if it was Taafe or maybe gz himself, laying the groundowrk.


        • PiranhaMom says:

          @Celo –

          Re: “The fact that the caller’s name is not available makes me wonder if it was Taafe or maybe GZ himself, laying the groundwork.”

          Cielo, that is the consideration – unless the tech blundered and was referring to GZ’s 311 call. Tara’s report strikes me as being made based on verbal contact with the cops that night or the next day. This was not a high-profile death at that time. “Just another unknown juvenile, deceased.” Cops probably urged no public dissemination – AND WE KNOW WHY.

  13. bettykath says:


    Searching mind posted a comment on the Turley blog about the content of Trayvon’s phone that made me think about the sanctions that MOM is looking for on this topic.

    O’Mara is upset b/c, according to him, after he received the raw data he requested the report the state got after running the software and that de la Rionda said the state had no such report. What his witness was testifying to is that he had a source that said that the state had such a report for some time. Of course, what the witness had to say was cut short b/c after testifying that he told the defense that that such a report existed, all the rest was hearsay. We’ll hear more about this Friday when the actual witness to the report is to testify.

    If de la Rionda lied, what happens? If he had such a report, he should have said so and then they could argue about whether or not the report should be turned over and let the judge decide. Or maybe de la Rionda didn’t lie.

    If the state had such a report were they required to turn it over when the defense asked for it?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I think it’s just another prime example of OM’s whining and not spending money where he should, and his deflection of responsibility to everyone else. Another drama for the GZLC defense fund givers.

    • ks says:


      MOM’s claim doesn’t make sense because, iirc, BDLR turned over the raw data very timely and the defense was not entilted to the State’s report from that data unless the information gathered was exculpatory which it wasn’t and further, most, if not all, of the information was just ruled inadmissable the other day. What BDLR supposedly said about having a report or not is an irrelevant sideshow.

      It was up to the defense to run their own report from the raw data which they finally got around to doing and now they want to whine about it and claim yet another bogus “discovery violation” to create drama and try and squeeze the last bit of dollars from GZ’s followers.

      • bettykath says:

        I agree with everything you have said.

        So why, assuming where MOM seems to be going with this, would BDLR lie about having the report? (If he lied. We haven’t heard the whole story yet.) Why not just say, I have the report, it doesn’t contain anything exculpatory or relevant. Then what? MOM objects. The judge decides to either believe BDLR or she asks to see the materials herself. If the state had exculpatory or not relevant material, can the defense demand it anyway?

      • ks says:

        Once they saw there was nothing exculpatory, BDLR was not required to tell MOM anything about the State’s report. It all comes down to a big so what? Following your scenario, if BDLR told him there was nothing exculpatory, what could MOM “object” to in court? It’s up to him to run their own report for the defense.

        In any event, I suspect, if anything, there might have been a timing difference between when MOM supposedly asked for the State’s report and when it was completed but even if BDLR got tired of MOM’s bad faith and told him to “go fish”, there’s nothing remotely close to a discovery violation.

      • bettykath says:

        According to MOM, he asked BDLR specifically, in court, about such a report and BDLR said they didn’t have one. MOM says his witness can provide the timing that says BDLR had one. Is he really allowed to lie about it?

        I know we haven’t heard the witness yet. And if MOM hadn’t asked specifically about the report I don’t see a violation, but if MOM asked for, BDLR had it, but then lied about, isn’t that a violation?

        I understand the BDLR is wearing a halo here and MOM is wearing horns, but I’m asking about the possibility that the prosecutor lied and, if so, what is his defense? That he determined that the material wasn’t exculpatory or relevant so he didn’t have to admit to having it?

      • Jun says:

        Yall dont remember the court hearings

        Bernie stated a long time ago he would check for them for a report but he did not know of such a report but he can have the raw data and the Judge ruled that the defense can go to FDLE and ask for anything they feel they require

        I do not recall the hearing fully, but they got everything and Bernie was accommodating in getting everything they felt they needed but Bernie said a lot of it is irrelevant

      • ks says:

        It’s not a question of halos or horns. If what MOM is claiming is EXACTLY true which, given his history and as JUN has clarified, is highly unlikely, there still would be no violation, discovery or otherwise. If MOM wanted to take it up with the Fla. BAR, then considering his tactics so far he’d be foolish to do so.

    • Jun says:

      So far, everything Omara has claimed was said behind closed doors has been a lie, so I am guessing this is probably no different

      You have to remember that they did not get the cell phone forensics done till late in the last year, they invited Omara to the cell phone forensic and he refused and he said that a lot of it is irrelevant (which turned out to be true, hence the judgement) and Bernie stated in open court that he’s not sure of any report, but he can ask, and then Judge Nelson ruled that the defense can go to FDLE to ask for anything they want and BDLR gave them the raw data

      BDLR also remarked that it’s not his job to connect the dots for them but he would anyways

      So it sounds like more hot air to be honest

    • Jun says:

      Actually come to think of it, your source is lying

      I remember the hearing now

      Bernie said “which report?”

      Then Bernie said “Okay, I am not sure which report you are thinking we have but you can have it”

      Then Judge Nelson ruled that they can go to FDLE to ask for whatever they need

      It does not sound like the court or Bernie lied or restricted Omara access to such a report

    • Malisha says:

      I remember hearing West or O’M carry on and BDLR answering, “The defense wants US to do their WORK for them. We gave them the data.”

      The State is not obligated to interpret anything for the defense. BDLR made that clear and Judge Nelson ruled on it.

      • bettykath says:

        So you’re saying that MOM is blowing smoke. Could be. Guess I’ll have to watch the next hearing to get my hypothetical answered according to the specifics.

  14. Ty Flair says:

    I know this case is not a laughing matter,but when O’mara said he got Trayvon on video swaying back and forth I could do nothing but laugh. You can see Trayvon going in his pockets getting his money and go back in his pocket to get some change also. So he would have to lean forward to go in his pockets more than once.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      When the videos were first released last year, Sundance Cracker edited the video with pauses to make Trayvon look as though he’s doing something suspicious (and to make the clerk look like he’s watching him) when he’s actually just walking into the store, picking up the items he buys, and paying for them, and the clerk is simply looking at him for a moment and then going back to his work. Nothing sinister about any of it and he looks like the high school junior that he was . . . I’m sure this swaying business was some unbrilliant ruse SD or some Treestumper thought of.

      • Rachael says:

        Did you see the one that the dimwattman put up last year claiming the 7-11 clerk was “profiling” Trayvon? They are such idiots.

      • KA says:

        He put so much energy into the “profiling” that he had no recollection of Trayvon or anyone that stood out that night.

      • racerrodig says:

        I remember that well. The video was about 5 times as long as the actual one.

    • elcymoo says:

      The video simply shows Trayvon shifting his weight a little as he dug in his pockets for money. If you want to see ‘sway’, you should watch me at checkouts, and I’ve never smoked pot in my life – althoughI think I may have gotten a ‘contact high’ once at a ’70s party.

      • racerrodig says:

        I was expecting this ….

        That’s swaying…..

        Note to Moron O’ Mara….Taaffe was swaying, Trayvon, eh, not so much. It’s on the record….look it up !!

      • dianetrotter says:

        When the right song comes on the radio, watch the saying, jumpin, hand waving, teeth showing, etc.

  15. whonoze says:

    Of course there’s a conspiracy between Rick Scott, Angela Corey and Judge Nelson to throw George under the bus: because he’s as guilty as sin. The point of the conspiracy is to focus all the blame on GZ, so none of it falls on the SPD, Scott, or his buddies in ALEC and the NRA. And it seems to be working quite nicely. True justice in this case would require an outcome that goes well beyond George Zimmerman getting locked up for a long time. Some cops need to go to jail, or at least get kicked off the force, and laws need to be changed. But that won’t happen, and there will we more Trayvons adding to “the mountain of the dead.”

    • Malisha says:

      As soon as Fogen is taken care of, the focus must be on the feds who are allegedly investigating the SPD etc. Sometimes, the cover-up is worse than the crime. In this case, though, since the crime killed a kid, it’s a very hard call; but the cover-up artists should be punished VERY VERY SEVERELY.

      • Shari says:

        Yes there is a real problem in Sanford.

        1. The local prosecutor and police chief blaming the dead child and saying that he should have done things differently that night.

        2. The segregated jails.

        3. Police officers son getting away with beating the homeless man. (sorry I don’t know his name)

        4. Why was it decided THAT NIGHT that GZ acted lawfully. They didn’t even let the investigation lead them to the truth. No evidence of his broken nose, no evidence Trayvon touched him.

        5. Who let GZ get away with his stalking and harassment for so long. Black OWNERS had decided to jog out of the community, he called the cops on black children simply being there doing nothing wrong. Any investigation into his past would have proven he should not have been in charge of any neighborhood watch. How many friends and associates did he have investigating him that night?

    • KA says:

      Whonoze –

      I was reading through your blog last night. You are quite fair in your assessments. You seem to have no tolerance for rumors and falsehoods from either side. I love it.

      I wanted to ask, I was almost positive I saw a clip a month or so ago where MOM said GZ would not take the stand in trial because “they didn’t need him”.

      I cannot find that now. I was saying that MOM said he wasn’t testifying to others, but now cannot find that source.

  16. chi1224 says:

    oops- meant to type deemed inadmissible.

  17. chi1224 says:

    Hi, does anybody know if the hearings concerning the expert audio testimony will be televised? In my mind this is crucial evidence that shows Zimmerman was indeed in a depraved state of mind to shoot a kid screaming for help, begging for his life! I am really concerned about this potential evidence will be deeded inadmissible.
    Any thoughts on that professor??
    Also, has any expert, anywhere, said the voice screaming for help was from Zimmerman? O’Mara has been making comments like this will be a “battle of the experts”, but I’ve not seen a single report that anyone has claimed Zimmerman was the one screaming for help.
    I’d like to hear any thoughts on these issues. Thanks!

    • I am not aware of any expert who has claimed that the defendant uttered the death shriek.

      • racerrodig says:

        Same here. The closest there is to that is “….we don’t have an exemplar of Trayvon screaming” but that help me help me help me help me help me garbage taken on 3/22 last year sure does exclude Fogen. Needless to say the common sense questions such as why does the shriek goes silent at the shot, who is asking questions and what does “I don’t know ’em” relate to ??

        The biggest however to me is “I’m beeeeeeeeeggggging you”

      • KA says:

        He claimed it in a few interviews that “he had an expert that says the screams are from his client..”

        Of course, I do not really trust a word that comes from his mouth (in or out of court).

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Fogen supporters childishly think if they say anything oud enougn and long enough that that makes it true. They’ve infected O’Mara and West, hence their recent behavior.

    • KA says:

      I think it is a “Wizard of Oz” scenario….(except the Wizard changed roles with the cold heart ed witch)

      “…don’t look at the person behind the curtain…”

  18. Malisha says:

    Just this morning I think I figured out what’s wrong with people who find Fogen “credible.” That Dog on the Turley blog came back at me saying he thought the jury would believe Fogen and he added that crap he used to say about Trayvon lurking around between buildings scoping out houses to burglarize. These people don’t think Trayvon Martin attacked Fogen; they think Fogen was within his “rights” to kill Trayvon for being in the wrong place and for being “a real suspicious guy” so they just pretend to believe the self-defense claim. There are people who actually think just like Fogen; he’s not completely alone in this culture, unfortunately. So the way they see it:

    “This thug was obviously gonna rob somebody and this good guy was patrolling (but he couldn’t admit he was patrolling because then he would be nabbed inappropriately because the law wants us to all be sissies who can’t defend ourselves). So the good guy was patrolling and saw this thug and he tried to apprehend him but the thug ran so he had to follow him. I woulda done it too. So it wasn’t the good guy’s fault but all these ‘schemers’ have wrongly represented the thug as someone we’re supposed to DEFEND and CARE ABOUT instead of caring about US when somebody’s always looking to rob us and take away all our hard-earned money when they’re just sponges and thieves. We have to defend ourselves and then when they try to punish us for that, we have to tell the story THEIR WAY because otherwise they throw us in prison where we can be even MORE victimized by those thugs.”

    It’s easy for these people to equate “Blacks” with “thugs” if they’re white or Afro-Peruvian and have been raised in a culture of constant resentment and outsider-blaming and self-aggrandizing hostility.

    This is really the way they think and they are always imagining others to be “up to no good” and they are always imagining themselves as victimized. They are permanently “mad as hell and aren’t going to take it any more” and it’s all in their own immature heads.

    Fogen and those who adopt this idiotic version of reality are a bunch of mentally underdeveloped, overly bellicose, co-dependent (upon whoever reinforces these foolish notions) angry babies and they should NEVER be armed.

    • Judy75201 says:

      Malisha, I have a hard time believing that “Dog” is not being sarcastic. If he is sincere, someone needs to lock him in that basement where he dwells.

      • Malisha says:

        Dog is sincere. It’s peculiar; he seems rational and even interesting about 2/3 of the time and then he veers off after the wrong rabbit…

    • Unabogie says:

      Exactly. It’s why they can believe that Trayvon literally attempted to murder George with no warning, provocation, or even MOTIVE. And why they refuse to believe that a guy like George with a history of assault, spousal abuse, and even child rape was incapable of starting a fight with a kid he DIDN’T KNOW, and was JUST HEARD cussing at for no reason.

      It’s because in their minds, though most won’t admit it, they think all black kids “mightB risky”. RJ sure let the cat out of the bag with that comment because it encapsulates the entire case.

      • Malisha says:

        Right you are. People who “mightB risky,” however, are allowed to walk along looking “real suspicious.” You are not allowed to accost them and NEVER allowed to kill them. Their right to “mightB risky” or even to flat out BE “risky” is guaranteed by the Constitution. Only if they are found guilty of a crime (that has to be written down and defined as a crime before they are accused of it) can their “riskiness” be punished.

        That’s what people like Fogen and Dog don’t get.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      There’s a certain faction of Fogen supporters who seem to be even more paranoid and more unstable than he is.

      • And that’s the part that scares me once the trial starts…..It will be the zidiots causing trouble outside the courthouse…..And I can also see court being suspended due to bomb threats……….All in support of their hero…

        There are, without a doubt some real wacko’s in the zidiot nation.

      • Rachael says:

        Yeah really. For all their talk about (black) riots if GZ is not convicted, my fear is much more about the GZ supporters if he is.

          • racerrodig says:

            I think they’ll just bitch on the internet, prop Robbie the Racist up to say this should be dismissed and the jury got it wrong, O’ Mara will talk about how the prosecution fell right into his “Can’t Fail Appeal Trap” West will talk even slower, and Papa Z will have 9 preposterous “From the Desk Of” open letters all saying that since one son is gay, the other must be a “Swell Guy” and he’s just so disappointed in the FL judicial system, Judge Nelson is a closet Afro – Peruvian hater, Mama Z will cry, well, we don’t really know who she is, on TV, or a shadow will be crying….”..my poor boy..”
            Blah, Blah, boring Blah……

    • Jun says:

      Presumed innocent until proven guilty except if you are Trayvon

      Lord Have Mercy

    • cielo62 says:

      Malisha- 100% accurate. The Zidiot commentators on many public news outlets have that exact same mentality. It’s rampant in Houston. It disgusts me to the core.

      Sent from my iPod

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Send them to my Master Revisable Timeline where they will see that there just isn’t time for any kind of shenanigans on Trayvon’s part to occur.

        Trayvon was picked up by gz at the mail kiosk at 7:09 and killed at 7:16:51, gz could not see Trayvon looking in any houses, because he didn’t see Trayvon before he got to the mail kiosk, and after he found Trayvon, all Trayvon could do was try to flee from him.

        (If you ask me, googles got a watch on my evidence pile, since I’ve had enough readers there should have been an attack of some kind by now, hee hee hee, perhaps they’ve found it a good place to round up hackers.)

    • Malisha says:

      HAHAHA. “George wants to testify” but “the decision won’t be made until the prosecution puts on their case” is another way of saying, “we’re not having a pretrial SYG hearing but maybe we’ll have a post-trial SYG hearing…” or, in other words:

      “We have nothing but the folks who don’t understand the law at all can keep believing we have something up our sleeves… in those emperor’s clothes that we’re not wearing… because the dog ate our homework… and like that… but this is all so unfair.”

      In other words, LOL.

    • cielo62 says:

      Tony- LOL! Just what I’ve been predicting forints! Sure! Let him open his mouth and insert his foot all the way to the kneecap! Then off to prison where he belongs!

      Sent from my iPod

  19. Soulcatcher says:

    I think I may have the answer why Omara is trying like hell to have the trial delayed. I’m sure JN knows why too, and why the next court date is scheduled for Jun 6th and 7th. Professor could you please explain the difference between the Frye Standard and the Daubert Standard that is expected to be signed into law by Jun 5th. I believe this is why Omara tried to play this out as long as possible regarding the expert witness, complaining about the fee, and then the 2 week thing, and then it would be this and that.

    • Dave says:

      For anyone interested, here’s a link to an article on the subject:


      It might serve as an introduction to the subject until the Professor addresses it.

      • Explaining the difference between Frye and Daubert will require a separate post.

        Basically, the Frye rule requires the judge to “count heads” to determine if a new theory or methodology is generally accepted in the relevant scientific community; whereas, the Daubert rule requires the judge to act as a gatekeeper by evaluating the new theory or methodology to determine if it’s capable of producing results that would assist the jury to decide a disputed issue of fact.

        I do not know what methodologies have been used, but I believe none of them are new or controversial. For that reason, I said that a Frye hearing is not necessary.

        Judge Nelson is taking a more cautious approach by proceeding with a Frye hearing and there is nothing wrong with that.

      • Malisha says:

        I believe the methods used by State’s experts are tried and true but there’s no harm in a Frye hearing OR any other kind of “voir dire” of the experts because they can stand up to scrutiny. They’re not fly-by-nights and they aren’t making anything up. It’s actually good practice to have them explain themselves and show how they draw conclusions. I approve of it and bravo again for Judge Nelson.

  20. kllypyn says:

    I’ve been watching the news ever since i was a kid. i’ve seen stories about a lot of murder cases. I have never seen a murder victim vilified and picked on like trayvon has been. they will use any mistake he made during that last months of his life to justify his death. He smoked weed,so what. I know people who smoke weed including some teenagers. they are good people.

    One of those teens is the sweetest kid you could ever meet. He gave a homeless lady his coat once. in 30 degree weather. he darn near froze to death waiting for the bus. Never committed a crime in his life except smoke weed. He did get into a fight because someone insulted his mother. he also calls himself a gangsta he couldn’t be a gangsta if he tried. incidentally he has a picture of a room full of weed on his phone it’s his back ground. He’s not a thug and neither was trayvon.

    there are gang members with a history of murder robberies and beating people up who have been murdered who aren’t picked on like trayvon has been. So he wanted a gun.He lived in the Miami Dade county area which has a fairly high crime rate. Maybe he got mugged once when i was mugged 5 years ago i wanted a gun. I never even tried to get one. I knew i would never have the heart to shoot anyone. I just don’t like the thought of hurting another person. I suspect Trayvon would never have had the heart to shoot anyone either. other than trying to sound tough he doesn’t seem to the type to want to hurt people at least that’s what my instincts tell me. they are right 98% right most of the time.

    The Zimmerman’s keep saying an admitted murderer is innocent,no he is not. there is no conspiracy. Trayvonn never said”WHAT THE#$%^ IS YOUR PROBLEM HOMIE?” No one under the age of twenty says that. Trayvon never said “OK YOU GOT ME OR GOT IT” after being shot he was severely injured and he most likely was not able to speak and lost consiciousness within 20 seconds after being shot. when the police arrived just seconds later he was not breathing and barely had a pulse. trayvon never said a word to Zimmerman until just before the confrontation began and he asked a simple question”WHAT ARE YOU FOLLOWING ME FOR?” Why didn’t he id himself? The burden was on him as the adult in the situation to tell trayvon what was going on. He was not a licensed security guard,or a police officer. he had no right to even approach trayvon.

    Following trayvon while he walked home was an aggressive act. and under Florida law it’s stalking.chasing trayvon when he ran also an aggressive act and stalking. we know what happened next so i wont go into it. when trayvon starting screaming 4 words would have defused the situation.”kid just go home” then he should have told the police where he went. Instead he started an incident which he then escalated to the point where he lost his temper and killed a kid while he literally begged for his life. then he began telling obvious lies.

    he knows he never screamed for help or begged for his life. why would a man with a gun scream like that? despite the defences attempt to pollute the jury pool i am confident they will find people who will listen to the evidence and send this man where he should have gone years ago, a prison cell. those photos they released shows a picture of trayvon standing next to Jahvaris he’s wearing a white wife beater. you can see how skinny he was. all the prosecution needs to do is show pictures of trayvon taken days or weeks before he was killed and show pictures of Zimmerpunk taken the night he killed trayvon and they will see he was not a match for Zimmerman. that along with all the other evidence will convict him. This time a month from now he’ll be in a prison cell. unless they get people who will ignore evidence,

    • His temper was lost long, long before the murder……….His temper was only looking for a place to unleash itself as his life continued to unravel ……………………….

    • KA says:

      My spouse looked up weight classes tonight and the weight difference in Trayvon and GZ was two or three levels. He said you would NEVER see a fight with that disparate of weight class in a ring. The underclass guy would get pummeled.

      Trayvon knocked down a person with 2+ weight class levels higher than him.with one punch?

      Um no…that wouldn’t happen.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I find that hard to picture myself. I was once punched in the face by someone with 50-60 pound weight difference (I weighed about 120 at the time) and it didn’t send me backwards. It did pop my head back a bit and I received a closed fracture of the bridge of my nose and a gushing nosebleed (and two very noticeable raccoon eyes!). What ultimately happens is that brief whiplash back and then you bend forward in agony to clutch your face with your hands . . . just sayin’. What Fogen said doesn’t ring true. Possible but not probable.

      • racerrodig says:

        Exactly. My son will be 15 on 6/13. He’s exactly the same size as Trayvon within a 1/2 inch and a few pounds. I’m 5-9 195 and I don’t have real big biceps ‘n such. My son can’t lift anywhere near what I can, even though his arms are 95 % the size as mine. We play around and he has nowhere near the punch in his punch as I do.

        Muscles mature juts like the rest of the body and if Trayvon had punched Fogen in the nose, Fogen may have been taking a step back, but he wasn’t going down and he wasn’t swatting flies either.

        • FACT….I’ve seen some small dudes take out much bigger men…

          Apply the old adage..”It’s not about the size of the dog in the fight….moreso it’s about the size of the fight in the dog”

          So how much fight does a mongrel afro / peruvian Chihuahua have ?

          • racerrodig says:

            “So how much fight does a mongrel afro / peruvian Chihuahua have ?”

            Not much probably, that’s why he has to be armed. Point well taken about size. Growing up in the 60’s and dad being a pig wasn’t cool and every goofball in town who had an older brother or dad rousted picked on me. Dad taught me how to inflict great pain without even throwing a punch.

    • Shari says:

      I have also watched many criminal trials make national news. The media NEVER attacks the victim. We are only shown smiling happy family photos. The family is brought on to share stories of their loved one. No one checked Natalee Holloway’s cell phone, no one asked her classmates how much she drank or if she was sexually active. Most of us simply grieved with the family and wanted her brought home. I admit I did say to myself that it was dangerous for her to leave with strange boys after drinking in a car and country she didn’t know. We are not asking the public if they wanted Natalee or Trayvon in their families. We are simply saying that they are dead, what good does it do to pick through their lives and start judging them?

      The thing about this case is there is so much evidence, we have a lot of the murder on tape and people still give GZ the benefit of the doubt. What would Sybrina do if we didn’t have all this evidence? It’s sad that black boys are dehumanized so and their lives aren’t seen as valuable. I am 5’7″ and my 11 year old is a couple inches shorter than me. This whole thing scares me, it’s pure evil to see every black child as a threat. We heard him on tape begging the adult GZ for his life, there is a dried up tear on his face and saliva dripping from his mouth. How depraved must you be to do this to someone’s child? At some point his humanity should have kicked him. He should have stopped and accepted whatever consequences were coming his way. But like he told Hannity, ” I was running out of time, the police were on the way”

      Malisha is right, they know GZ didn’t kill in self defense. They justify it because for them Trayvon’s life has no worth and he needed to be killed. This kind of thing can’t stand. If you want to be racist keep that to yourself. You may not go around hunting people you don’t like. Or move to Eastern Europe I hear it’s a very unwelcoming place for people of color.

      Everyone in America is on notice. Check your phones, check your grand daughter’s social media. If there is anything unsavory there you have become a target. So sayeth the grimm reaper Fogen. UGH!!

      • kllypyn says:

        I think most likely that was blood coming from his mouth.

        • Shari says:

          You may be correct. I only said it was saliva because I remember early on when Tracy had to identify his sons remains that he saw a pic of Trayvon with dried tears and saliva. I have no interest in seeing an autopsy pic. Maybe I am a sheltered. I have been to 3 funerals in my life and did not like at the end of the service when it was time to view the body. I did not like seeing my loved ones that way. I wanted my last view of them to be when they were full of life.

          • cielo62 says:

            Shari- that “viewing” must be uniquely American. When my father died, there was no viewing. He was buried within 2 days of death. That is a more South American custom. Honestly, I totally agree with you.

            Sent from my iPod

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            The viewing came about because they were required to identify the body in a criminal investigation. So they didn’t have the option not to view in this case. They would have had that option had it been a natural death with no criminal investigation under way. Just so you know that they didn’t have any choice.

      • Rachael says:

        Not all religions have open caskets at funerals. In fact, it is really rather “recent” that it has become part of American culture.In the Jewish religion we don’t have open caskets. Judaism places a very high priority on showing respect for the deceased and one of the highest commandments is honoring the dead and it is felt disrespectful to show remains. As well, Judiasm is about life and seeing a loved one dead makes us think of our own mortality and that is not what Judaism is about. We cover our mirrors too so we don’t see our sadness. It is, like you said, about remembering the life of that person.

        Also, Jews believe in ashes to ashes, dust to dust. “Dust you are, to dust you shall return.” (Gen 3:19) and in order to have an open casket, morticians put makeup on or do other things to make the body presentable and this prevents the natural return to dust.

        Anyway, just saying, not all funerals are open casket. By nature of the religion in which I was raised, I can totally understand when you say you “did not like seeing my loved ones that way. I wanted my last view of them to be when they were full of life.” But even though I was raised to believe that myself, when my mom died when I was 7, I practically had to be held back from trying to open the casket to see her because I just couldn’t believe or accept that she was gone. I wanted so badly to see for myself.

        Of course now grown, I’m glad I didn’t. As all of us must, I finally was able to accept she was gone and I don’t know how I would feel taking the image of my mother dead into the rest of my life.

        • Shari says:

          I grew up Christian and was always taught that the body is just a shell. Once your loved one is dead their spirit and whole being, the person you knew is no longer there. That’s why it hurt to look at them. You look at their body it hits you that they are gone forever. You can no longer visit them. You keep putting it off and thought you had time but it’s too late. What a tragedy in this case. This family only has memories of Trayvon and the killer has friends in the media doing their best to throw dirt on him.

          I have seen some people take pictures at funerals. I say do whatever works.

      • Rachael says:

        Yep. People all grieve in their own way.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        And that in truth is probably the most civil-rightish aspect of the case. Could be GZ wasn’t particularly racist and the original problem is more about perceptions of violence, GZs stories manufactured to get out of his mistake, the cooperation of SPD in this affair, but the aftermath of this event surely is racist in the way the victim is portrayed as a thug.

      • tinytruthseeker says:

        I am a college student and my Grandparents have full access to my online activities and my cellphone… this tragedy proves everything they talk about is true…. EVERYTHING we collect on social media and our personal devices is up for interpretation…. NOBODY leaves their home planning on being gunned down by someone like George Zimmerman…. sadly we are being shown that many, many people think like him, and would do what he did…. nobody is safe…

  21. dianetrotter says:

    Kids have their on lexicon and it is evolving. The “N” word is considered racist and not allowed to be used at school. However, kids of all races use “n***a” all day long and no one can convince them that the two words mean the same thing. Back in the day Black people said “bad” when something was really good. It really confused White people because they thought bad meant bad.

    • kllypyn says:

      Funny thing about that word even white kids call each other niggah i almost fell over literally when i heard that. That’s why i don’t get as mad about it anymore.. But i still don’t like hearing it.

      • towerflower says:

        Little story, I hired a nanny for my 8 yr old, we are white. She was from the Bahamas, she does not like labels so she would never say she was African-Bahamian. She would only say she was Bahamian.

        Her son was visiting and during his stay she started to tell a story about some friends at dinnertime. It was crazy “N” this and that. I had to stop her. My fear, was that my son would go back to school and call someone a crazy “n”. She couldn’t see the problem that it was only a term of endearment and not meant as anything bad. Her son and I tried to explain to her that coming from a person of an African heritage than it was a term of endearment but if it came from a person of white heritage then it was considered a vile, hateful, racist word. I joked with her afterwards how if my son repeated her words of endearment in school, she would be the one to go to the school to explain it.

        But I guess my point is, if a word is so bad (and I believe this one is) then it should be bad on both sides of the fence and not used by anyone.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        More on Miller – Miller has dedicated his time to communities through P. Miller Youth Centers and his P. Miller Food Foundation for the Homeless. On July 12, 2007, Willie W. Herenton Jr, the mayor of Memphis, Tennessee presented Miller with the key to the city.

        Miller’s financial status is an American rap mogul with a net worth estimated at $350 million. He has nine children in all. Singer/actress Cymphonique Miller is his daughter and rapper/singer/actor Romeo Miller is his son. Rappers Silkk the Shocker and C-Murder are his brothers. He is also the younger cousin of producer & singer Mo B. Dick.

    • Jun says:

      It’s how some black people talk and seeing how the US and Canada is multicultural, these certain black folks talk to other people of other cultures

      I know yall do not like it, so I do not use it on here, but the way some black people use it, it’s simply a noun

      For some reason a lot of Hispanic, Asian, and Black people called me “N” growing up

      • rayvenwolf says:

        I have one friend who calls me that. Hell I am in her phone as “My Ni**a” She’s jewish and we play our little “who can out offend each other” game pretty much anytime we’re in the same room. One such conversation involved mentions of a nice warm oven and a sturdy tree branch. She’s moving to Cali tomorrow and its not gonna be the same without her around.

      • dianetrotter says:

        About 20 years ago I substituted for a class. I heard several students say “N**** blah, blah, blah.” I cringed a looked up. The room was full of Hispanic students – no AA’s. Now that I teach, I hear all students say it, use it on social media, etc. Often I think I am listening to an AA only to find out that the speaker is Hispanic, Asian, or Caucasian. This includes “A” students as well as “F” students. It seems they all assimilate to the hip hop/gangsta/whatever culture.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        This is why I’ve indicated that the no_limit_nigga username isn’t considered to be negative in Trayvon’s culture and why OM should not be trying to make it so.

      • Big Willie says:

        FYI: Trayvon got “no limit nigga”, from rapeper Master P.

        1. No Limit, is the name of Master P.’s record label.
        2. The phrase No Limit Nigga, comes from Master P.’s song “Make ’email say uhhh” (I was a No Limit nigga, makin major moves).

      • Big Willie says:

        FYI: Trayvon got “no limit nigga”, from rapper Master P.

        1. No Limit, is the name of Master P.’s record label.
        2. The phrase No Limit Nigga, comes from Master P.’s song “Make ’eml say uhhh” (I was a No Limit nigga, makin major moves).

      • Big Willie says:

        Sorry about the double post. The auto correct is changing my words.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Master P – Percy Robert Miller, Sr. – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_P

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Oops – put this in wrong spot above – more on Miller –

        Miller has dedicated his time to communities through P. Miller Youth Centers and his P. Miller Food Foundation for the Homeless. On July 12, 2007, Willie W. Herenton Jr, the mayor of Memphis, Tennessee presented Miller with the key to the city.

        Miller’s financial status is an American rap mogul with a net worth estimated at $350 million. He has nine children in all.[20] Singer/actress Cymphonique Miller is his daughter and rapper/singer/actor Romeo Miller is his son. Rappers Silkk the Shocker and C-Murder are his brothers. He is also the younger cousin of producer & singer Mo B. Dick.

  22. hotheadpaisen says:

    Prof. here’s something I really do not understand; I know it’s not possible for private citizens to gain access to photographs or text etc. from someone’s private telephone. my understanding is that O’Mara was granted permission to Review what was on Trayvon’s telephone only to see if he could use anything on it as evidence against Traybon’s character, and the judge would be the one to decide if anything could be used. what I don’t understand is, why was the defense allowed to give all of that information to the public before the judge ruled on it? just seems completely wrong. if the public doesn’t have access to that information, Why is he allowed to release it?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I don’t presume to answer for the Prof, but OM was acting disingenously. He is aware that the contents of Trayvon’s phone is not going to be admissable unless certain parameters are met during trial, but he released it anyway as discovery. He’s trying to have his cake and eat it too. The contents of GZ phone were sealed until trial, but I believe there was some glitch caused by Judge Lester before he left the case and Trayvon’s phone info wasn’t treated the same way.

      I think someone commented about this in more detail in the last article thread before the hearing.

      • rayvenwolf says:

        And we all know good and well if Bernie and co had done this with those oh so lovely texts of GZ’s O’Money would be calling for their public flogging.

      • Rachael says:

        He even said himself that he knew it would most likely be inadmissable so this was the only way he could get it out there. THIS WAS THE ONLY WAY HE COULD GET IT OUT THERE??!!!!

        Those were his words. He said he could do it because it was evidence (or something – I can’t remember his exact words). He knew what he was doing. He did it on purpose. He is disgusting.

        Just because you CAN do something doesn’t mean you have to – or even should. And I think (or may I just really hope) this will fall right back in his face. As the late Jim Croce said, you don’t step on superman’s cape, you don’t spit into the wind, you don’t take the mask off the old lone ranger etc. And that is what MO’M has done.

        I think he is about to find out exactly why he should not have done that.

        • racerrodig says:

          “Just because you CAN do something doesn’t mean you have to…”
          That would include following, profiling, stalking, detaining, terrorizing and shooting someone just because…..well we can all agree “for no reason” other than imagined I assume ?

    • I believe O’Mara violated the rule prohibiting both sides from disclosing information on Travon’s cell phone, unless opposing counsel agreed to the release and the judge approved the decision.

      • ay2z says:

        I was able to see the hearing before going out of town yesterday, even was in plenty of time. During the hours of driving, I recalled something that happened in the last hearing, that related to something that happened yesterday, involving Donald West, well, two ‘somethings’ because there was a second ‘behaviour’ moment by West, that might reveal an issue that is underlying his ‘mistakes’ in court and talking out of turn, to the media last month.

        I’ll think about how to put this, so it’s not taken as a snark of ‘fun making moment’, because if this is underlying these slip ups, the defense either knows it has an excuse for bell-ringing at trial, is using a situation to its advantage, or the bell-ringing will happen because of some other reason.

        There is the possibility of this helping win the trial because part two of the defense’s strategy, would be to jog juror’s memories about these recent, non-evidence text and photo releases, and the defense’s own media discussions on national and local Florida news stations, papers and web casts. Once bell-ringing word occurs on any of the related In Limine motions ordered in favour of the state, the juror(s) will fill in the blanks by recognizing they have heard that bad thing about Trayvon before, if they were exposed even briefly. More familiarity, more chance the juror can’t remove that from their decision making process in favour of cumulating ‘doubt’ for the defendant’s case, even if subconciously.

        (there may be a legitimate ‘can’t help it’ excuse for Donald West, that can be used by the defense in exposing things to the jury)

        • racerrodig says:

          Ehhhhhhh I wouldn’t give him that much credit. Look, he quit a real job to join the Fogen team….’nuff said. Every lawyer and investigator I do work for chalks it up to….

          …and nothing else.

      • ay2z says:

        (the question would be, is there any responsibility of the bar association stepping in before trial? Probably not, these is no proof of failing abilities for a condition that has no proof of existence as would be needed ‘legally’ to prove some onset of disability.

        There is also the possibility by purposefully putting these behaviours and mistakes on video record, both in and outside of court, that the defendant himself, might op to, instead of going along with it, use this documentation to suggest reasons for the need of replacement counsel and that means delays, substantial delays presumably, unless MOM can do it all on his own.

        But I’d guess inadvertant and/or planned memory moments, might be the defendant’s best chance at using the recent releases in an obscure way at trial and best chance at acquittal.)

        • cielo62 says:

          Ay2z- GZ has a snowflake’s chance Texas August heat to get acquitted. Some doubt might be planted BUT the forensics puts those doubts to rest. What is a murky doubt compared to NO DNA found on Trayvon’s hands or clothes?

          Sent from my iPod

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            I’ve added a few important and critical things to my Master Revisable Timeline so that anyone reading around the time of the gunshot can easily discover what new stuff we’ve been uncovering.

            It’s like a pincer movement that just keeps winding tighter and tighter around gz’s guilt.

          • Personally I’ve preferred the Hammer & Anvil strategy more than the pincer movement……….Just my person preference 🙂

          • dianetrotter says:

            I hope BDLR will consult your timeline Lonnie.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Well, now that we’ve narrowed the length of the encounter from the available 3 minutes to less than 45 seconds, part of which they each spend verbalizing with Trayvon screaming in pain or terror while being unarmed. There less of a chance that gz forgetting he had a weapon means anything useful to the defense. Obviously without a trace of gz’s trace on Trayvon’s hands, gz could only have forgotten his gun for a scant few seconds, IF he did at all.

            This scenario, according to his own testimony, means that only seconds after causing Trayvon to scream out in terror and pain, gz drew his weapon and fired. The jury isn’t going to have much at all, to weigh in favor of any self defense claim. Since an unarmed teen, untrained in combat, going up against a professional combatant, who had been previously paid to fight with people, and who did so with too much vigor, is hardly going to have a reasonable claim of self defense.

            The capture of gz’s first encounter with Trayvon and the 911 call picking up within 11 seconds of the DD call disconnect leaves too little time for a teen to wage any kind of life threatening attack on a man who also is armed, angry and exceedingly dangerous.

  23. Two sides to a story says:

    High time for a little celebration!

  24. ay2z says:

    Full hearing is up here.

    • Judy75201 says:

      Thanks for this. I missed so much because I was at work. This weekend I’ll have time to watch every splendid minute!

  25. Friends of Trayvon Martin: Jerome Horton and Darrell Green

    • Trained Observer says:

      Thank you for posting, SouthernGirl2 — Wonder how the whoppty -do school investigator who found the baggie and set off the chain reaction to the suspension feels, knowing Trayvon otherwise would have been in Miami in school the night Fogen went a huntin’ .

      Kids need to be IN SCHOOL, not expelled or suspended for nonsense.

      • There you go! I have always wondered how the person feels who was responsible for the suspension. If Trayvon hadn’t been suspended, he’d be alive. IF it was me, my conscience would bother me forever.

        • cielo62 says:

          SG2- unfortunately jerks like that who abuse power will probably feel justified, with an “I told you so” attitude that black males are trouble and get what they deserve. Just like all the jerks at the outhouse.

          Sent from my iPod

      • Rachael says:

        You know, that might be true, and I’m so sorry it was Trayvon, but there is no doubt in my mind if it hadn’t been him it would have been someone. The only things that surprises me is that GZ hadn’t done it sooner, but if it hadn’t have been Trayvon, he’d a done it later. It was just bound to happen.

        • Rachael…….I was thinking the same thing today……fogen was off course and headed for disaster…..His life prior to the shooting proves it…..the debt…..eviction….failing school…..

          It’s just tragic that it was Trayvon that paid the price for bringing this to light…

          The only thing that could bring any solace is that maybe it’s prevented fogen from something worse in the future……Still a very high price.

          HOODIES UP

      • towerflower says:

        Not sure how I feel about the post…..on one hand, yes kids need to be in school but they also need to learn reasonability for their actions. Trayvon wasn’t an elementary student, he was a high school student, he knew the rules and possible consequences for violation of the rules. Excusing their actions at this stage is setting them up for failure in real life. They will always look to place blame elsewhere or look for a free pass…..after all what’s the big deal.

        I don’t blame the investigator for doing their job. Like it or not, they were doing their job. How were they going to know that his mother was going to send him out of town during the suspension and that a deranged wannabe cop would kill him.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        In school suspension – ISS rooms – are common in many schools across America. Kids who break rules are sent there with their books and assignments and are consequence enough for many rules violations in schools. Sometimes they devote one class period a day to picking up trash on campus or assist in the cafeteria or other projects. There’s been a trend to out kids for 3 days and up to 10 days for very small things and then keep adding days for other small things until it gets ridiculous. I say keep them in school and out them only for the most serious things.

      • Rachael says:

        I agree Towerflower. However, I will say I have never quite understood why cutting class or being late is reason for suspension because that is like rewarding the kid for what he is doing. But aside from that, there do have to be rules. If graffiti (vandalism) is a suspendable action, so be it. If a school has a no tolerance policy for drugs, so be it. And in that respect, even though I think a rule suspending kids for not going to class is stupid, it is still the rule. Trayvon knew the rules. I don’t think there is anything wrong with him being suspended if he broke the rules.

        However, I don’t think that means that had he not been there that night *because of a suspension* it wouldn’t have happened. Because this was NOT about Trayvon.

        He had EVERY right to be there that night for whatever reason. It doesn’t matter if it was because he had been suspended or if he was there to have Sunday dinner with his dad.

        This is about GZ and the fact that he shot and killed Trayvon. If it hadn’t have been that night, it might have been another night. If it hadn’t have been Trayvon, it certainly would have been someone – because he was a loose cannon, ready to go off. Like I said, I’m only surprised it hadn’t happened sooner.

        That has NOTHING to do with Trayvon being suspended. If he broke the school rules, he deserved to be suspended.

        But do not give “them” any credence to their thought that because Trayvon had been suspended he deserved to be killed. That is sick and has NOTHING to do with it.

        Trayvon did not get killed because he was suspended. He got killed for one reason and one reason alone and that reason is because GZ killed him.


      • Two sides to a story says:

        Rachael – You’re right. Some kids who get suspended could care less even if their parents care. Keeping them in ISS and other in-school solutions is much better. They hate that. They also hate being excluded from regular lunchtimes with their friends, etc.

      • towerflower says:

        Rachael, Don’t get me wrong, I know that Trayvon had every right to be where he was and his mother had every right to send him to his father. It was mainly to do with the original post of the school investigator feeling bad for suspending Trayvon on such a “nonsense” charge knowing he had been murdered during the suspension.

        I know on other sites it has been mentioned that it’s against State law for a student to be suspended for being tardy. My son is in HS and we live in Florida. From his school planner it says for the consequences for being tardy.

        5th and 6th–45 mins after school detention
        7th and 8th–90 min after school detention
        9th and 10th–Saturday School
        11th + — Suspension.

        If they are 10 mins or more late for any class between 2nd-5th periods they are given a referral for skipping.

        The HS’s I have seen don’t suspended right away unless it is a more serious issue but they do the in-school detentions with suspension following on the 3rd time.

        I also know that the school system that we are in was/is also part of an investigation because of higher punishments (more suspensions) that are given to AA’s than those of other races.

        But don’t get me wrong about my post, fogen was totally responsible for that night and it didn’t matter if Trayvon was on a suspension or not. I only was commenting on the content of the original post.

    • ay2z says:

      Thank you for posting this!!

  26. PYorck says:

    I have some questions about the alleged discovery violation. Let’s ignore for the moment whether the evidence was exculpatory.

    As I understand it, there was this SAO IT guy who extracted the photos from the raw phone data using specialized software and sent them to BdlR.

    I would have thought that something done in-house like that is work product and not an expert’s report for discovery purposes. The defense seems to disagree. Why would something like that have to be released?

    Btw. some extractions or evaluations of extracted data can be tricky, but grabbing the pictures was not. I could have done that. It is also a completely mechanical task without any professional judgment or opinion.

    • KA says:

      It seems that is the process of getting data off the phone, Trayvon’s Sunday School teacher’s number in his contacts may have been equally relevant?

      It seems to the defense, that if it came off the phone, it must be be eligible for discovery.

      Whether BLDR saw those pictures or not, why in the world would be think it was even relevant to the case and thereby needing to be included in discovery? I would have dismissed them.

      I think MOM is confusing “deceiving” and “irrelevancy” (especially considering MOM had the entire raw file)

      • KA says:

        Also wouldn’t an internal analysis to the State be considered their own analysis and not required for discovery purposes?

      • PYorck says:

        Also wouldn’t an internal analysis to the State be considered their own analysis and not required for discovery purposes?

        That’s exactly what I don’t understand. The way they describe it, the only thing they got from others was the raw data which they gave to the defense.

      • racerrodig says:

        This is O’ Mara’s audio expert.

        He’s just hearing the part where Trayvon says “…..I’m begging you….”

        • Not Angela Lansbury says:

          LOL, that is beautiful! First good laugh of the day, thanks.

          • racerrodig says:

            Thanks !! Just took my sleeping pill and my keyboard looks bent for some reason. I’ll hang in as long as I can.

      • Rachael says:

        “I think MOM is confusing “deceiving” and “irrelevancy”

        He’s not confusing them, he’s using them. He knows damn well it isn’t relevant and he can’t use it in court in front of an actual jury, so he has to get it out there somehow, especially in front of anyone who could potentially be on the jury.

        He is a slimey azzle, but he knows what he’s doing as far as that goes – and he knows he “has to” because he has nothing else.

        There aren’t adjectives strong enough to describe how disgusting he is.

    • Jun says:

      I feel Omara is gonna lose that bullshit and he’s simply conspiring with the defendant and Fogen gang

      Bernie did not violate any discovery

      It’s just the same ol bullshit where Omara and team Fogen make a load of baseless accusations

      Bernie is going to simply show up with the chain of custody, the proof that he invited Omara to the cell phone forensics which Omara refused to go to, and that he gave him the raw data a long time ago, then he will say the evidence is not relevant however he got it, and Omara used it to try to smear the victim like he usually does

      But the main part is that, Bernie did give it to Omara

      Also Bernie can bring up that it was agreed that phone records were to be sealed and Omara broke that agreement

      Everything with Team Fogen is a plot or a scheme

      Look at how Fogen is dressed with his hair… way different from the way he looked when he stalked and killed Trayvon, when he talked to police, and when he was arrested for beating up his ex… it’s all an act

      I believe the motive is simply to try and create sympathy for Fogen and at the same time smearing the victim to try and create sympathy

      Team Fogen always tries to pull stupid shit

      It’s been the same song and dance

      1) Accuse the state, accuse the victim, accuse witness 8, attack the victim’s family

      2) Ask for money, whether sanctions or on TV for their Blood Money fund

      3) Ask for a continuance

      4) Sling more mud and then whore himself to any mic

      5) Leak information and claim it was an accident

      Trust me, before the June 6th Frye hearing, it will be the same song and dance

    • BDLR was required to disclose the raw data on Trayvon’s phone and he did disclose it in timely fashion.

      He is not required to disclose an expert’s interpretation of that raw data unless the interpretation is exculpatory or he intends to call the expert as a witness at the trial.

      I do not believe he has endorsed an expert witness to testify about the raw data. Therefore, I believe he decided that the information retrieved from the phone is neither relevant nor exculpatory.

      The information that O’Mara publicized last week is neither relevant nor exculpatory, so I do not believe that he can prove that BDLR violated the discovery rules.

      I believe O’Mara should be required to show cause why he should not be held in contempt of court for publicizing the information on Trayvon’s phone, which appears to be a violation of the court’s order not to publicize information obtained from TM’s (or GZ’s) cell phone without the agreement of opposing counsel and the approval of the court.

  27. Rob says:


  28. Rob says:

    I don’t know if it was talked about before but could there have been a gps system on fagens car that we don’t know about? All we here about is gps. I know alot of cars comes with gps or theft alert to track your car if it’s stolen. Just wondering.

    • Jun says:

      I think the cops had Fogen’s GPS coordinates when he called the cops

      If you listen to the call, Sean the dispatch knew Fogen’s location before Fogen even said so

      • Rob says:

        I was meaning to track his movements before the NEN call, while in his car.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        It would sure be interesting to know exactly where he drove if that’s possible. He had his cell phone with him and maybe his movements have been tracked with that.

  29. cielo62 says:

    >^..^< still catching up

  30. Two sides to a story says:

    I missed OM on Piers Morgan (it airs again at 9 on the left coast) but I did see Ben Crump. Anybody see him anywhere else?

    • Trained Observer says:

      A snippet on the news: He called this trial the biggest civil rights trial of the times. I am a huge Crump fan, but I see this case as broader than civil rights. Erasing all the major racial overtones, it’s also one of common sense, fairness & decency triumphing over stupidity, manipulation & evil.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I agree. I think the civil rights component is a wee bit overstated, but it’s certainly about “common sense, fairness & decency triumphing over stupidity, manipulation & evil” and also about re-examination of “self-defense” and the morality of self-defense.

  31. Nef05 says:

    Taaffe just stated on HLN that Trayvon was “up in his yard, looking in his window”. No one even challenged his statement. I’m too through!

    • Jun says:

      It’s simple, the NEN call disproves that

      How convenient that only Taffe’s house is noted as being looked into

      Ah but wait for the GPS data haha ha

      • racerrodig says:

        More desperation. They had to have propped him up for this. As soon as he said it they broke top commercial and he was gone.

        No ~ Freaking ~ Way did he ever say this before. Now he’s implicating himself. I’d say this is what liars do. Any takers we see this lined up next to the Hannity Interview in the evidence bin ??

        I’ll just make shit up as I go along. Now Taaffe says he works with teens withdrawing from THC addiction……where ?? !! ?? at the
        bar !!!!????? !!!

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @Jun, @Racer –

          Did Taafe continue with “this suspect was looking in my window so I called George right away, and said, ‘Dude, pack yo’ heat! I got a live one for ya! Annnn … he looks pblack!”


          • racerrodig says:

            They yanked him off the air and went to commercial real fast. They had him out after that. Go away & stay away.

      • KA says:

        SO the man that was just arrested for DUI and has a restraining order against him from his ex wife and kids says he is “counseling kids”….bullcrap….

        He would not pass a fingerprint check by law enforcement to work with kids…period.

        That man is “lying like a rug”….

      • KA says:

        A quick question from Nancy….”so is that is an official capacity?” “Where?” would have shut that bullcrap down.

      • lowrydr says:

        jun don’t forget, Taffy was the neighborhood watch captain before gz assumed the “responsibility.” i saw that in one of the earlier articles …

    • racerrodig says:

      I saw that and posted it here…..actually Nancy cut right to commercial and he was Goooonnnneeeee

      How about his crap that he now works with teens on THC withdrawal !!! When…..between drinks…..or arrests !!

      Think I’ll go on National TV and just make shit up as I go along.

      As if a drunken pile of racist garbage will get that gig.

      • Jun says:

        LMAO Scientists have already concluded that THC is not an addictive drug so there are no withdrawal symptoms but hey, that’s what happens when you use reefer madness as your submitted evidence LOL

        I swear Fogen’s gang thinks it is still 1930 or something when it is 2013 the information age and everything we need to know is practically at the fingertips on google

        • racerrodig says:

          He stated he works with teens during THC withdrawal I say when ? Before his trip to the bar ??? Maybe he’s getting them off weed and into hard stuff,,,

      • Rachael says:

        Hmmm, I’ve read it *can* be addictive and has withdrawal sx similar to that of withdrawal from coffee.

      • Rachael says:

        Why not? I mean if GZ can mentor kids in his mind, so can Taaffee – but I’ll tell you, if I ever saw either one of them “mentoring” my kid, I’d show them a thing or two about self-defense, and I wouldn’t even need a gun.

        I don’t know who of that cast of druken, lying, racist effn losers makes me the most sick, GZ, Jr, Sr, Taaffee, Osterhole, Oliver, or MO’M/West and I’m glad I don’t have to choose between them. I’m glad I can be disgusted and hate them all because it would just be too hard to choose.

        • racerrodig says:

          I can see this at a meeting

          “Okayyyy, next on the agenda, we need someone to help those teens with that THC withdrawal program. Anyone here that is qualified raise your hand. I need then to be chronically unemployed, racist, foul mouthed and a drunk” It helps if you’re a liar with friends who carry a gun and are racist as well”

          “….Oh, Mr. Taaffe……sure…..”

      • groans says:

        @ Rachel, re:

        Hmmm, I’ve read it *can* be addictive and has withdrawal sx similar to that of withdrawal from coffee.

        I’m having trouble imagining how withdrawal from pot (if there is such a thing) and from coffee could produce similar symptoms…. ❓

      • Rachael says:

        Why? Symptoms of withdrawal from most things are similar. But check it out for yourself. Don’t take my word for it. I never had any problem and I smoked daily because my ex grew it – but he sure had symptoms. Just google withdrawal symptoms from pot.

        • racerrodig says:

          I’m not arguing any symptoms or programs. I’m saying Taaffe ain’t involved with any of that. He’s a convicted drunk, and both of his sons commited suicide and left letters stating it’s becausue of dad.
          Any program that he’s involved in, he’d be a patient, not a counsler.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I can’t believe they’ve dredged up Francis again.

    • trina cosbie says:

      …………& yet he failed to mention that little juicy tidbit all year long…..

      • racerrodig says:

        He’s just making it all up.

      • Jun says:

        They can’t keep their stories straight

        On the NEN call Fogen claimed

        “Trayvon was suspicious for walking around looking about and that he looks black”

        “Trayvon is looking at all the houses” was used about 20 or 30 seconds after that

        To accomplish these claimed statements, Trayvon could have only been walking down the street, to be able to look at all the houses and be walking around looking about…

        Then when Fogen knew he could get in trouble for stalking a kid and killing a kid while the kid pleaded and begged for his life, he changed his story to be a complete contradiction to the NEN phone call he made and the new story was Trayvon was faster than Olympic runners, making it over 500 feet from the clubhouse to the T in a matter of seconds

        And even if Trayvon did look into Taffe’s house (I feel it’s a lie, but let’s play along), it still does not mean Fogen is allowed to terrorize and kill Trayvon as he begged for his life

        Lastly, the GPS data will be the nail in their coffin

        • racerrodig says:

          I’ll go there with Taaffe on this one. He had his windows open and since both of his sons committed suicide, he was just laying there playing with himself with the windows open. He and Fogen play that game trying to entice kids into their game.

    • OMG! I saw it. Lying POS! And Daryl Parks didn’t challenged that bald face lie? Taafe know damn well Trayvon wasn’t looking in his fking window.

      • racerrodig says:

        Bastard called his house “Ground Zero” I’m sure a few of us could make it look just like Ground Zero.

    • Rachael says:

      Fricken insane!!!

    • looneydoone says:

      ME Forensic Investigator, Tara Malphurs Case 24023 Report (page 2 of 2)
      >>”At approximately 1910 hours, on 2/26/2012 911 dispatchers received a call from a resident of the complex. The resident advised of a BM who was at the complex between the townhouses. The caller stated that the male should not have been in the area, and he had observed the male while out walking neighborhood watch”
      This report is attached to handwritten field notes
      >>”face down, confronted by resident, fought, then shot to ground, 911 call”
      There’s reference to ESC CAD#12-0570199
      Agency Report #201250001136
      Event #2012057167
      Transferred to SAO
      For the Public-no

  32. KA says:

    Should not O’Mara really be worried about the ballistics and DNA evidence at this point? All of this talk about “audio specialists” seem quite sidetracked to the main evidence which makes GZ “being on the bottom” when the shot was fired improbable, probably impossible.

    I would think that GZ being on top when the gun was fired would be one of the most important single point in this trial on whether or not this would even be considered a self defense claim.

    The defense seems OBSESSED with every single detail in this trial that has nothing to do with “meat and potatoes” evidence on bullet trajectory, DNA, blood flow, etc.

    I seriously doubt they have many, if any, experts.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      It doesn’t sound very professional, does it? I guess we’ll see soon enough!

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      The way MOM dissed the expert at the hearing, that he was trying to hire; I’d think that any expert worth his salt would be giving MOM’s defense team a wide berth indeed. In a stupefying effort to reduce his fee, MOM denigrates the experts creds. Could anything be more foolish? I’ll bet the expert breathed a heavy sigh of relief that his name didn’t come out.

      Any expert MOM tries to call here forward will not even pick up the phone. Because first there’s no money and second they risk being publicly tarnished if they don’t come up with what MOM wants.

      As far as the enhancement of the call tapes goes, there’s now evidence that there are likely more people involved, since there’s that unexplained racket of men “rounding the corner” at the very time when gz is located near the phone of a 911 caller.

      Since the contact lasted only 45 seconds or less, as we’ve recently discovered thanks to Xena, who can be heard saying what on that call is now of paramount importance. But MOM has foolishly driven all the experts away from his side, in fear of his out-of-control anger mismanagement.

  33. diary73 says:

    Is there any word about why GZ was not at the hearing? To my knowledge, there was no motion this time to waive his appearance, was there? What are the repercussions about missing a hearing like this when one is not properly excused?

  34. Ty Flair says:

    I remember when O’mara fought so hard to keep fogen text messages seal,so why Trayvon text messages was not seal. That is the only thing getting to me right now.

    • Xena says:

      @Ty Flair.

      I remember when O’mara fought so hard to keep fogen text messages seal,so why Trayvon text messages was not seal.

      I went over that in a comment on the other thread. Last year before Judge Lester, the State filed a motion for a protective order. Included in what they wanted sealed were phone records for the victim and defendant. The defense filed a motion agreeing with the prosecution. They asked that the items be categorized.

      However, when Judge Lester entered the order, he categorized the items to be sealed, omitting Trayvon’s phone records while including GZ’s. I take it as an inadvertent error that O’Mara took advantage of.

      • Ty Flair says:

        @ Xena what will happen to those seal text message,because the state have to release it to the public if they want to use it at trail. I could be wrong I’m still learning the legal system.

    • racerrodig says:

      Fogens text and calls will show he was in contact with what are known in the real world as “accomplices” There may not be enough evidence to convict them, but why would he be in contact if he was going shopping. The state did not have all of this when he was arrested and we do know much has been discovered since then. Where is Joe “Rent a Friend” Oliver ? Osterman ?? Taaffe ?

      I do know there are quite a few in a row. I’ll post what I think is the sequence.

      From a time frame of about an hour or so prior to his NEN call

      Taaffe > Fogen
      Fogen > Osterman
      Fogen > Taaffe
      Fogen > SheLie
      Taaffe > Fogen
      Osterman > Fogen
      SheLie > Fogen
      Fogen > Taaffe

      NEN call

      Fogen > Osterman
      Fogen > SheLie
      Osterman > Fogen
      Fogen > Taaffe
      Fogen > SheLie


      When I asked my Fed Inv guys about this, I got a look like “….dude, were you there…..no comment” No denial, no, you’re off base, no, what ?? are you kidding…..nope, that look where the arms were crossed in casual conversation, one foot on the floor, one against my shop wall and boom, arms drop and foot back to the floor.

      There is a lot going on here we don’t know for sure and can only speculate but body English says a lot.

      • Wonder if he’s planning his acquittal party like he did his “graduation” party?

        • racerrodig says:

          “Wonder if he’s planning his acquittal party like he did his “graduation” party?”

          Think he’ll hire Burgess to help cater it like last time ??

          I don’t think he’s thinking acquittal anymore. I think he’s thinking ..

          “….um, if I cut the ankle bracelet at this angle, it might keep working and I’ll just leave it on the nightstand. Taaffe can make the next call in for me and pretend I have a cold”

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @MountainMan Pat and @Racer Pat –

            Word out in the catering community is that he already sent out his RFP for party waitstaff to “Stiff Your Server, LLC.”

            No response yet …

          • racerrodig says:

            Let me clean the spittle off my laptop…………………………………………
            ……………………Okay now…..I can see better and I’ll say again.

            “You guys and gals are in rare form”

      • Two sides to a story says:

        You owe me a screen cleaning. HAHAHAHA! The acquittal party that wasn’t.

      • Malisha says:

        BDLR, he sit there.
        He don’t say nothing.
        And Brer O’Mara, he rant and rave and he yell and holler, “Trayvon this and Trayvon that!”
        BDLR, he sit there.
        He don’t say nothing.

        Come on, O’Mara, come on, kick your tar baby, come on…

      • Trained Observer says:

        Racer — Plus possibly the whispering sister living nearby … I think she was on Fogen’s playlist that night.

        • racerrodig says:

          I agree, but the list I posted is basically what I stated since last year to which my connections don’t argue. His sister may have called in the very beginning and he was back & forth with him.

          The fact that she went to the prison and just stayed in the lot “to be close to him” has a serious implication to me. That is “She’s NutZZ” as well as the rest of them

      • LeaNder says:

        Think he’ll hire Burgess to help cater it like last time ??

        That wasn’t Burgess, the guy was white. White male. Someone else he needed police for to be dealt with, that is true. Why would I need police if I never entered either a verbal or written contract with someone? I am no male, but I would be perfectly able to deal with that myself.

        I know, I can be a pain in the a***.

        • racerrodig says:

          I could have sworn it was posted and verified it was a black male and then it was stated it was Burgess or one of the others in that gang…..Ransburg ? If I’m wrong, my bad.

          • LeaNder says:

            Why Ransburg, racer? Do we have any information that he also lived in the complex and accidentally was identical to the man that Fogen did or didn’t hire? I am not ruling it out mind you, but I wouldn’t consider the chances very high.

            I didn’t pay much attention to that call, apart from the fact that I consider the way he dealt with it idiotic. Too many unknowns in the larger scenario.

            From the top of my head, could it be that this man offered his services to Leland Management in this context and simply took it for granted that whenever something happened there he was automatically hired. And Fogen for whatever reason thought that there had to be a personal agreement between parties. Just one possibility that could explain events. I am not saying it was like that, mind you. That’s just one of many options.

          • racerrodig says:

            Ransberg lived there.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            All I can add to the discussion is that according to the records and Rene Slutzman, there are two Ransberg/burgs, one is white and was part of the group with Burgess and two other black males, while the other was black and lived in or near the cul-de-sac. Which is close to where Burgess lived at 2500 RVC. There still plenty of confusion about the two Ransberg/burgs that can’t be resolved. No one seems to be able to find the police report, about the day when the four of them were arrested with Dreamicis 3k laptop.

          • racerrodig says:

            Can’t tell the players without a program sometimes.

  35. KA says:

    I wanted to say something about the texts. I was talking to my husband about the “fighting text” and Trayvon [allegedly] saying “round one” on the fight would cement a theory that this was not a random fight, it was a sparring/MMA wrestling kind of fight…

    No one says “in round one” on a sporadic, violent attack on someone…

    • Rachael says:

      I think MO’M kind of covered that by saying he was a “trained fighter. ”

      smh, rolling my eyes.

      • KA says:

        Yeah, therefore the only relevancy would be if GZ was assigned to wrestle against Martin next….but he brought a gun to the mat.

        • Yet fogen worked as a bouncer…………..I don’t think anyone would hire someone as a bouncer if they didn’t claim to have fighting skills….and a willingness to use them.

          • racerrodig says:

            Of course he got fired from both of those for overusing those skills which is like a soldier getting dismissed for being “to accurate a shot”………pretty freaking hard to do.

      • racerrodig says:

        That was pretty poor. He’ll get his.

    • Xena says:

      @KA. Sounds more like a video game. Fights that are picked do not have “rounds.”

      • KA says:

        That or a wrestling match. Neither is any indication that someone is “violent”.

      • Dave says:

        Yup! Unsanctioned, semiformal athletic contests. Nothing more.

      • racerrodig says:

        And in this corner…..still un – de – feated, with thinning hair and a will nobody can beat Beeerrrnnniiiiee Deeee laaaa Riiiioonnnndaaa

        And in the opponents corner, still win less in over 75 tries ……
        Morrrrroooon Ooooooooooo’ Maaaaaarrrrraaaaaa.

        Where do I get tickets ?? I can see this image……..Bernie standing over O’ Mara one foot on either side of him saying “Go down and stay down” It’s coming.

        • Thanks Dude….Now I have the image of mr. o’moron with a Mike Tyson face tattoo 😐

          • racerrodig says:

            “…Now I have the image of mr. o’moron with a Mike Tyson face tattoo :|”

            My side hurts from that one….the laugh that is. That would be priceless……

      • Two sides to a story says:


    • Jun says:

      It could also easily mean a video game such as UFC, Tekken, etc

      The texts are inconclusive as to what they mean and even if Omara were to use them, he can’t prove with whom Trayvon was fighting but my guess is it is a kid his own age, therefore Trayvon got his ass whooped which makes Fogen’s fairytale even more stupid considering Trayvon could not even handle a kid his own age and size

  36. Watched the HLN thing on fogen last night….doing the walk around with the cop….

    The knuckle bandages on the head were stupid……It was the first time I noticed…..It looks like he also has one on his NOSE !!!!!!!!!!

    Am I seeing things?…..again the head was bad enough….but on the nose too?

    • Malisha says:

      That would be “on his cute little button nose too” wouldn’t it?

    • Judy75201 says:

      Those are maxipads, Pat.

    • racerrodig says:

      You never saw that !! The 1st gander we got of the bandages was in the police station video when he arrived for the return to the scene of the crime as he’s walking up the steps, turns so all can see those big old bandages.

      What a tool…

  37. Ty Flair says:

    When this trail is over I can see the title of O’mara new book ( How I sold my sold to the devil). and West new book will be call ( How to make quick cash,while sounding stupid).

    • Malisha says:

      Both their books can be titled the same (no copyright available for titles): The World According to Fogen’s Boys.

      • Straight to the discount bin……..

      • DruDo says:

        Categorized under fiction.

      • racerrodig says:

        How much will they have to pay people to take a copy, as much as Osterididot ?? Will the autographed copies be “Ready for Flame”

        • Questions….

          1. Anyone know the current status of the “defense” fund?….As in how are mr & mrs fogen supporting themselves if donations have dried up?

          2. Is joonyer getting paid for all the interviews he’s doing?

          3. Is joonyer sharing his income from them with his brother? Or even mom & dad for that matter?

          4. Any chance fogen is losing some of his fan base by his brother admitting to being gay?……….Bigots are going to hate no matter what….Were fogen to come out and support his brothers sexual preference……then he would be supporting homosexuality…which would not sit well with his racist, bigoted fan base……It could also draw the ire of those good christian folks at westboro…

          • racerrodig says:

            1) They are over 40K in the hole.
            2) Nope
            3) Robbie the Racist is out of work and stated it about May 2012
            4) Yep, those racists hate pretty much anyone not traveling the road they do, that we know. I know that when he admitted to being gay. or was found out to be gay last year, donations declined at once.

            It’s down to “Game ~ Set ~ Match” at this point.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Some of the more moderate Fogen supporters love Jr and feel he’s a wonderful brother, speaker, family representative etc. .

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Pure fish-wrap.

    • Trained Observer says:

      And looking stupid, too.

      Check today’s hearing when JN issues an order and West stands there with a “duh” expression. Finally he tells the judge he’s “processing” what was said in plain English.

  38. William Walton says:

    One should always get the raw data. In oil field operations, I would go to the pumper and obtain the well data from them. This would get the field engineers PO’d becasue they had the data and had already written a field report. Would tell them that I wanted the raw data such that on returning to Houston, I would interpret it and write my report. Many times. reports are written to conceal gross mistakes.

  39. groans says:

    I missed some of the beginning of today’s hearing. What was discussed and happened with the State’s motion to order the defense to comply with discovery? Thanks in advance.

  40. groans says:

    I missed some of the beginning of today’s hearing. What was discussed and happened about Shellie’s deposition and her taking 5th? Thanks in advance.

  41. Woow! says:

    Was Shellie in the truck with Zimmerman the night he shot Trayvon? I am asking because I read on a news site that on the night of the shooting, police did not secure Zimmerman’s vehicle because he was on foot and Shellie told the police that she moved the truck.

    I also read that Zimmerman stated that he and Shellie would shop together. I wonder if this will come up during the trial.

    • racerrodig says:

      In the enhanced NEN call you can hear some paper rustling and a voice says “..tell ’em, this..” then he stutters. At first it seemed like he was drunk or it was his meds, but it appears it was just a distraction. Anyone talking on the phone when someone starts talking to them goes through this.

      But I’m positive the phone records will prove she was there.

      • dianetrotter says:

        If Shellie was there, did she wait in the truck or take another route so theycould surround him? I’m thinking of “call my wife.” BTW, he didn’t say, “my wife, Shellie?” or “I’m GZ. Call my wife, Shellie?”

        • racerrodig says:

          I believe one of them went around the 1st row of houses (south I believe) and herded Trayvon back. I also think there were 3 people in on this.

    • PiranhaMom says:


      We discussed this at length earlier this spring. Looking for the pings on her cellphone to establish this. She exited the deposition with BDLR in a huff, on advice of counsel.

      One of the fascinating aspects to be revealed during trial …

  42. Jun says:

    The only conspiracy is the cover up of a murder at the hands of Fogen, Joonyah and their gang

    Fogen got caught redhanded and then staged a self defense claim so he could try to not get in trouble for stalking, chasing, terrorizing, and shooting an unarmed kid, a kid that was screaming for help and begging for his life

    How convenient that idiot refuses to answer questions

    BtW joonyah can kiss my bloodclot culo

  43. Trained Observer says:

    How long before Trent posts his analysis?

  44. RastaGirl says:

    Well good news for us, but I’m worried due to the fact it was put in the media..

  45. LLMPapa says:

    Wonder what’s buzzin thru the mind of the dude holding a $1M bond on a no show in court today?

  46. Vinnie on HLN was laughing after playing Robert Zimmerman’s interview. lol The panel was trying to wipe the smiles from their face.

    • truthseeker66 says:

      Which part of interview caused him to laugh more?

      • I wouldn’t say a certain part caused him to laugh more. He just chuckled after listening to Robert Zimmerman speaking at the press conference and then he turned to the panel.

    • racerrodig says:

      That was priceless, I must say !! “Do you think this is just him, or part of the overall defense strategy?” he asked while trying to keep a straight face.

      I’d love to hear what the producers were saying in his ear monitor.

      “I’m gay and my brother (who I haven’t talked to, and admitted on TV, in 10 years) is my biggest supporter”

      You mean the brother who called you “…a worthless piece of shit…” on a recorded jail house call….that brother???????

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Bobby thinks people have short memories like Fogen.

        • racerrodig says:

          I just wish one of those reporters would show a set and say “Hey you asshole, you said you didn’t talk to him form 10 years……and you think we buy this shit…….enough….that’s a wrap”

    • bettykath says:

      I’ve wondered if the “jr is gay” has come from him in the past or is it someone else’s assertion? If it’s someone else who outted him, his public announcement now is probably just a manifestation of his coming to terms with it coming out. If he’s said it before, he’s just doing drama.

      • racerrodig says:

        He was ratted on last year then admitted it. Now, according to him, his being gay means Fogen could never hurt anyone.

        I guess this is “The my Brother is Gay, so Free Me” Defense. That ranks right there with the “Don’t Have a Trial” Defense and right behind “The Octopus Defense” but not as funny as “The Big Boi Defense”

      • bettykath says:

        thanks for the clarification. maybe he’s trolling for $upport from the gay community.

      • PiranhaMom says:


        Who outed Joonyah?

        Listen to jailhouse convos between GZ and SZ

        • racerrodig says:

          Note to Robbie the Racist….Fogen called you worthless, among other things. Listen to the calls, ‘cuz, unlike you guys, we ain’t lyin’

      • Jun says:

        He’s not getting the gay community support

        Trent is gay, and he does not support Fogen in no fashion

      • bettykath says:

        “gay” is a diverse community. I was speaking of how jr might be looking at it.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Joonyir’s been out as gay for ages, as is well known … this was clearly another “hey, look at me, I’m important” attempt on his part.

        My gay friends and contacts (male and female, black, white and Asian), reside in Camp Trayvon. Just like my straight friends and contacts of assorted races and both genders, plus one transvestite. Given facts of this case, how could anyone with half a brain think otherwise?

        • cielo62 says:

          Trained Observer- even Hispanics gays like me are firmly in Camp Trayvon.

          Sent from my iPod

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            It will do the heart good to go out, every once in while, to other blogs and find the most racially bigoted poster there and leave a ‘scorched earth” post.

          • Why bother with scorched Earth as we know a chasm is about to open beneath them………Then we call all stand on the sides……pointing down……laughing our ass’s off 🙂

            HOODIES UP

  47. Attorney Crump will be a guest on PoliticsNation tonight.

    • groans says:

      Thanks for the heads up. Rev. Sharpton said a few nights ago that he’s going to cover the trial “gavel to gavel,” whatever that means. I guess it means that he’ll cover it on his show, at least. And maybe some of his MSNBC cohorts will, too, though they haven’t been covering the case much since the early revelations about it.

      • lurker says:

        I’ve seen a bit more MSNBC coverage just lately. And HLN is getting primed as well.

      • Malisha says:

        “Gavel to gavel” means the first time the gavel comes down to start the trial and the last time the gavel comes down after the verdict.

      • groans says:

        @ Malisha – LOL!

        Thanks. I do know what it literally means; just not clear on how the Reverend could do that in an hourly show – hence, the question.


        BTW, great job on the Turley blog today! You’re great at pulling up the facts and evidence on demand, and presenting them convincingly. Thanks for posting broadly (this site, alone, is more than I can keep up with!).

      • Malisha says:

        Groans, I came here from Turley; I went to Turley originally because of his constitutional law coverage. But then he started covering all sorts of stuff I couldn’t get interested in, and I was offended that he defended Zimmerman (even though he did it more subtly than Jeralyn or Dersh) so steadfastly. So I shout out occasionally.

        There was a canine poster a while back who flat out tried to bite Trayvon post-mortem and I got fed up with him one day and broke my Rule # 141 (“Never kick a dog”) and gave it to him. Other than that I haven’t been sounding off too much on that blog because I find it feeds the “wrong wolf” in me.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        When I read Turley, I feel kind of manipulated.

    • groans says:

      Dang, SG2! Even with your heads-up, I managed to miss it! He must have had it first on his schedule. Please keep the information flow coming, though. Thanks again.

  48. Malisha says:

    Conspiracy? What conspiracy?

    Conspiracy to demand law enforcement against someone who killed a person without just cause. Conspiracy to not let an institutionally-racist police force enable and then excuse murder. Conspiracy to not allow “good ole boys” to just go around killing Black kids because they CAN. Conspiracy to take full advantage of American Democracy because it is NOT just there for guys like Fogen; it is also there for guys like those Taaffe calls “Trayvon-type dudes with their pants hanging down.” THAT conspiracy.

    Check it out. Lots of folks in Florida still believe it was that same kind of conspiracy that caused THEM to “lose” the Civil War.

    • LLMPapa says:

      Malisha says:
      May 28, 2013 at 3:26 pm

      Lots of folks in Florida still believe it was that same kind of conspiracy that caused THEM to “lose” the Civil War.

      Nope not the same kind of conspiracy at all. We’d throw dynamite across the creek at em, and those no good cheatin Yankees would LIGHT it an throw it back!

      Not fair, I tell ya.

    • Jun says:

      The only conspiracy is the conspiracy to cover up a murder, in which Fogen was caught redhanded committing but from the beginning staged a self defense claim to try and justify his kill and terrorizing of a kid

      And you are right, we all have rights under the constitution and we all feel Trayvon was not treated like a human being by Fogen and what Fogen is doing with his gang is cruel and unusual punishment

      Besides, we can all say and protest peacefully whenever we want so Fogen and his gang can kiss my culo

    • Two sides to a story says:

      When I lived in FL, I was kinda scared of them crackers. Not much sense of humor in ’em.

    • towerflower says:

      Lol, but it depends on the section of the state you live in. We have quite a few snow bird retirees in this state. True natives are harder to find all the time.

  49. CherokeeNative says:

    Wonderful day for Justice for Trayvon & Family.

    Professor – Any idea why the prosecution hasn’t filed a Williams rule notice/motion regarding George’s prior bad acts?

  50. fauxmccoy says:

    thought nelson was spectacular in her rulings and composure, but am quite concerned about the jury pool. looks like the defense has chosen to run off and join the circus and i am unimpressed with the media.

    excellent analysis before, during and after, professor.

  51. bettykath says:

    Folks here have been so helpful in helping me find stuff. May I try again?

    I’ve been looking for the videos of the initial interviews conducted by Singleton and Serino.

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      There are no videos just audio.

      • bettykath says:

        I thought I saw the interview but maybe I’m conflating the Serino audio and the voice stress interview. Thanks for the response.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        There is the voice stress test and the walk-through. That is it as far as I know.

    • Big Willie says:

      @ bettykath

      As Foggen would say, “I don’t know what your deal is…”

      You come over here (Leatherman Blog) pretending to be all thankful and shit, and you post over on Turley’s board a video that I posted last week of rapper W.C. in concert doing the Crip Walk. The purpose of me posting that video was because, first Foggen said Trayvon was running, then Foggen said Trayvon was skipping, and I said next Foggen will be saying, Trayvon was doing the C-Walk and throwing up gang signs, which is the only reason I posted that video. YOU, turn it all around and post on Turley’s board along with that video and said, “Here’s gangsta, a part of the culture of Trayvon Martin and friends Dr Dre, Snoop Dogg, Eminem, Xzibit, Ice cube, D12”. What do you mean here’s Gangsta? A culture that Trayvon was a part of? If Trayvon was a part of it then so am I and I’m a middle age black woman. How the hell does that video show Gangsta culture and how do you know what Trayvon was a part of it? The only thing that video shows is a fucking dance! bettykath you are what I call a Frenemie.


      • Shari says:

        Thank you for calling that poster out. Be honest about who you are. If you support GZ say so!

      • Rachael says:

        LOL – “so am I and I’m a middle age black woman.”

        Me too!!! And I’m a slightly older than middle aged white woman!

      • Justchill says:

        <— Middle aged hoodie wearing white woman in da houze

      • disappointed says:

        Let me just say I am a middle aged white woman. Older than 56. I do not post anywhere else, to scared. It makes me a little nervous that comments I make will be used against me.
        I personally lost a son to violence. It is a daily occurrence of violence against our young kids. I have no problems with responsible gun ownership. IMO that is what half of the problem is for the Trayvon haters they think we want their guns. The other half despise blacks. You would think by now we could all get along. Hopefully my grand babies are right and it will get better with the next generation.

      • Big Willie says:

        I don’t know what color bettykath is. I don’t care if she was black, purple, blue, orange or green, I still would’ve said, what I said. Again I aplogize for saying I’m a “black” woman, I should’ve just said I am a woman and left it at that. The facts remain what they are, and if she deletes her post I already took a screen shot of it! She can’t lie her way out of this!

      • bettykath says:

        Big Willie, First off, I’m sorry to have offended you. There were several videos of the very same performance so I guess I just picked the wrong one. The point you make with it is valid.

        The point I was trying to make is that gangsta is a common reference, so common that it is the name of a dance. The defense has made a big deal about “gangsta” and the name Trayvon used on one of this social media accounts. The rappers in the video are very popular with kids, regardless of race, so I don’t find it out of line to think that Trayvon would use the language he did in a way that other kids his age use it. My own nephew, who is not a thug, knows the words to lots of the raps. I find a lot of the language to be offensive, same as my parents found my choice of music to be offensive. My mother would try to cover the tv screen and would end up leaving the room whenever Elvis came on.

        Way back when, I had no opinion one way or the other about this case, but I have great respect for Rev. Sharpton. It was through the Turley blog that I found this one. Professor Leatherman has been very generous in explaining what’s going on, unlike Turley who takes a media account and leaves it up to others to sort stuff out.

        I’m very skeptical about bandwagons and avoid them, they’re too much like mob mentality. However, I was interested and looked at the discovery materials and the analysis provided Professor Leatherman and others here that show that fogen is a liar and the charges against him are very appropriate.

        If you read anything else on the Turley blog that I posted about this case you would see very clearly that I defend Trayvon and try to show others that believing the defendant’s story is dead end.

      • Malisha says:

        I’ve known BettyKath a long time. I don’t believe she supports one milligram of Fogen; I trust her and I read her comments wherever I find them with interest and respect. I think if she came off sounding like she was against Trayvon Martin’s cause and position in any way it was a misunderstanding. I’m hoping to figure out more about this particular comment (I didn’t actually read the whole blog over at Turley) and I’ll get back to you but wanted to hastily defend BettyKath’s genuineness and honesty.

      • Not Angela Lansbury says:

        I wouldn’t call bettykath a frenemie based on that one post. Taking her comments as a whole, even there on Turley’s post, she appears to be on the right side. Looks like she just thought it was a cool video, not that Trayvon was some sort of gangsta. Dre, Snoop and the rest use a gangsta persona that is very popular among teens of all colors, but they are no more Crip than Trayvon was.

        I think we ought to leave the divide & get conquered strategies to those on the other side of the case.

      • Malisha says:

        Oh now I went back to the Turleys and read BettyKath’s comment with the video. I took her to mean that “gangsta” did not mean “gangster” and that it had no actual negative connotation about the person who was described, or who did describe, “gangsta.” It denotes a kind of “aura” represented by the dance she showed which, by the way, as a failed dancer, I must say I admire (x 1000) + + + and wish I could perform.

        My son used to be able to do some of that and we LOVED IT and he was, and is, a mild-mannered, generous, lovely kid like Trayvon Martin in that respect. (Betcha my kid could dance better than loose-limbed lanky Trayvon.)

      • Big Willie says:

        @ bettykath

        I get what you’re saying about thinking the name of the dance is called “gangsta”. However, where i’m from in Cali, even us middle-age women can c-walk (great for keeping the lbs off) it’s never been called the “gangsta”. I apologize, I thought you were calling Trayvon a “gangsta”.

      • Big Willie says:

        Serena Williams- C Walk

      • bettykath says:

        Big Willie, I don’t believe Trayvon is a gangster. Everything that I have seen says he is a pretty typical teen who is making a few mistakes as part of his learning process. His mistakes are more typical than earth shattering. They are in no way thuggish or deserving of a death sentence.

      • bettykath says:

        I know it’s called Crips, but I thought it was part of a generic “gangsta” style since that is what I searched on. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

      • Not Angela Lansbury says:

        You started it, Big Willie!

      • PiranhaMom says:

        @Big Willie –

        I checked that post by BettyKath and it was eminently clear to me that when she wrote “Here’s gangsta” she was introducing the artistic performance “gangsta” video that followed, as in music category, like “hip hop” (does not relate to rabbits or Manx cats), “heavy metal’ (does not relate to gold or platinum).

        Maybe not my favorite performance, but I can see the energy and irreverence appealing to teens. “Gansta” sounds real tough. Would drive their parents bonkers. Of course kids would love this. Played at top volume!!!

        BettyKath was NOT calling Trayvon Martin a “Gangsta.” Or gangster.

        That’s how I see it.

      • LeaNder says:

        Big Willie, I have to defend Betty. You completely misinterprete her.

        She was only responding to a passage by Jonathan Turley, and used your video to show that this this does not mean what it is supposed to mean.

        Turley: This includes texts from November 2011 in which he says that his mother has kicked him out of the house after “da police caught me outta skool.” His friend responds “So you just turning into a lil hoodlum.” Martin responds “Naw, I’m a gangsta.” In other messages, Martin discusses guns like one that asks “U wanna share a .380 w/ (blacked out).”

        Why shouldn’t she use a video you linked to in that context that helps to fight the message spread by defense to create a false image of Trayvon? Without any awareness of the use of the term in youth culture?

        I don’t understand, I really don’t. I think she does a good job over there, and why not use some of the expertise from over here in that context?

      • Big Willie says:

        I already apologized to bettykath and said I misinterpreted her “gangsta” reference and definition. It may have been eminently clear to some of you, but it wasn’t to me. Where I’m from it’s eminently clear the dance would’ve never been called the “gangsta”. End of discussion.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Well, I’m a Celtic Vampire Viking geezer and I’m gangsta too.

        Hoodies up!

      • Jun says:

        “gangsta” is a slang term for really cool and awesome

        For example

        “Yo dat New Benz SL Class you got is stupid gangsta”

        Which means

        “The car you have, the Benz SL, is a very nice car”

        • racerrodig says:

          Yep….maybe O’ Mara et al need to be aware of things like this. See, there are many flavors of Ice Cream, but then again racists will never get it………never !

      • hotheadpaisen says:


      • Not Angela Lansbury says:

        Yeah, I think we can all leave this alone. We’re all friends, right? We have trial in two weeks, people! Let’s send Bernie some inspiration with this:

        The last one, I promise!

    • gbrbsb says:

      A site called axiomamnesia has tantamount to everything to do with the case files so you will find the audio interview files as well as any that were video recorded:

    • Big Willie says:

      Sorry ladies I probably should’ve just said “woman” and not “black” woman.

      • William Walton says:

        Big Willie, when I was with Amoco and doing work in Trinidad, WI,, a black fellow brought the wrong drum to the site and a white guy told him “take it back boy and bring the right drum.” Folks there telexed Houston about the look on my face that a race riot was about to begin. Learned after spending months in Trinidad, the culture was if you were a guy no matter what color or age, you were called a boy. Also learned if you were a gal no matter what color or age you were a girl. So, learned that one needs to respect all cultures

      • groans says:

        No apologies necessary, Big Willie. You were trying to make sure Trayvon was not denigrated (any more than the killer’s fans and counsel already do). Please don’t ever feel hesitant to do that. Many of us have had concerns in the past about how bettykath expresses herself, and we’ve worked through it. Glad this worked out, too. 🙂

      • Trained Observer says:

        @Big Willie — Am totally in synch with statement with groans. Don’t ever feel hesitant to stand up for Trayvon or feel apologetic for having done so when remarks or comments strike you as off kilter. We’ve all been there.

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @Trained, @Big Willie –

          You don’t have to be Black, Female, American, Canadian, German, Korean, Chilean, Boy Scout, Sailor or any other category to fight for JUSTICE FOR TRAYVON.

          “Human” is all it takes.

  52. Malisha says:

    Alpha, Beta, Gamma, I’m Delta.

    But Delta is the Greek letter used most often to designate: “Defendant” so I’ll skip it altogether. I’m happy to be “omega” to avoid association with the defendant in this case.

    Over at Jonathan Turley’s blog (and remember, from the outset Turley chimed in for the defense, albeit not as loudly as his close personal friend Dershowitz or as passionately as Jeralyn Merritt) he put up an article that says that the stuff just ruled inadmissible was “key evidence,” and I had to jump in, which I did here:

    Wow, I couldn’t disagree more that the recent barrage of silly crap was “key evidence.” Judge Nelson seems to believe that it was not “key evidence” as do I. This is not a single reason why the prosecution should have to prove that Trayvon Martin was perfect or that he never had a less-than-exemplary thought or made a less-than-admirable comment in his communications with his friends, co-teens or anybody else. This is not a divorce mud-slinging contest where “wife is a liar” is a major important issue or where “husband said a bad word” comes into play. This is a criminal trial where a person who never knew Trayvon Martin took it upon himself to kill the kid while he walked along with some candy in his pocket. HIS propensity for violence can only become an issue IF evidence of self-defense is offered at trial and that evidence of self-defense has to be credible to need any kind of rebuttal. If Zimmerman’s self-serving and obviously untrue assertions of self-defense were minimally credible there would have been a SYG hearing long ago and everyone following the case with any kind of scrutiny knows that.

    Even if Trayvon Martin were an alcoholic drug addict with a long history of barroom brawls, the fact that he was NOT inebriated that night and the fact that he had none of the killer’s DNA on his hands or sleeves and no scratches on his knuckles, coupled with the fact that the heart-rending (literally) hollowpoint bullet entered his chest at NO ANGLE at intermediate range while it tore through his clothing at point-BLANK range while his sweatshirt was stretched DISPROVE the fantasy that he violently attacked and beat up poor Zimmerman that night, as Zimmerman and his friendly “kill-a-kid” cops would have had us believe.

    As for motive, what do you have? Trayvon Martin’s CHARACTER? Opposite that, murder for Zimmerman to kill Trayvon Martin is clear from his recorded comments to the police dispatcher:

    “A real suspicious guy”
    “He looks like he’s up to no good”
    “He looks like he’s on drugs or somepin”
    “These a55holes, they always get away”
    “F*cking punks”
    “I don’t know what his thing is”
    “Sh!t, he’s running”

    If you think an appeal will succeed because the judge did not bless the defense’s plan to flip-flop this trial and make the victim into the defendant by making the defense a not-ready-for-prime-time production number called “He needed killing,” I think you’ve got the Florida appellate courts down as even worse than they are. Oh they’ll appeal all right, because it’s practically a GIVEN that the State will win its conviction, based on forensic evidence and recorded statements alone.

    Zimmerman’s downfall was that he misjudged. He thought he could still get away with murder if he looked all lilly-white and innocent and said a few little stupid “poor me” things; he miscalculated. Most Americans are just sick and tired of arrogant self-excusing abusers and killers rushing around claiming that the whole world is “ground” they can “stand” by picking off people they can then smear enough to seem like their acts were justified.

    Maybe it should be stated now: Kill an unarmed kid, take your chances with a judge and jury who don’t think it’s a casual, excusable kind of thing.

    You can read Turley’s article here:


    Mike Spindell, whom I have the utmost utmost UTMOST respect for and who is probably one of the top ten intelligentsia among bloggers I read, still believes (perhaps swayed a bit by Professor Turley who insists that Fogen was overcharged by Corey) that the killing was a form of manslaughter. I cannot force myself to get back into the Turley blogs energetically (I comment from time to time) but it was my experience there that they generally thought that somehow this killing was not “depraved” enough to be murder. Why? Search ME. I don’t like to think this but I DO think this: Trayvon Martin was not, to most commenters there, quite as non-killable as many other 17-year-olds might have been?

    Man, what does it take?
    What DOES it take?

    (If I drank, I’d go get myself a double right now.) 🙄

    • Rachael says:

      Good stuff. Thanks.

    • bettykath says:


      Several of the posts have indicated that the defendant is guilty. Mike has been influenced by a 2/12 article, one written before anything but the defendant’s story had been available. Only Turley on one or two others hold out the “poor fogen” banner.

      • Malisha says:

        I know, BettyKath, but many do prefer “manslaughter” to murder and their general position is that it was really bad but not totally TOTALLY utterly bad like murder or anything…

        It’s that kind of “renunciationability” that drives me nuts, personally. Judges do it most of all but it’s a common thing among lawyers, intellectuals, etc. It leads me to the “what does it take?” feeling. So I vent.

      • bettykath says:

        Your post on Turley was great! I wish I had just a bit of your writing skill. You have a great way of making your point.

    • boyd says:

      Very good, You told him, not uncommon for Turley to be wrong. He was probably ‘shocked’ someone fired back like that.

      Judge Nelson is much smarter than she lets on. MOM is getting killed by the Judge like every time he walks in that courtroom.
      So bad, now I know Robert is gay…. okay, we’ll let George off the hook Bob. And boy, she was mad about the sequester thing, really mad. I noticed a subtle glare I did.

      I think the charge could easily have been manslaughter, but George screwed himself in the interviews. He will never admit he made a mistake.

      One other thing, I have to believe this Reich guy found something earth shattering that can be heard. Had to be something to convince BDLR. You can hear George whisper after the “always get away” comment. Just Please no Christopher Darden glove moment!!

      • PiranhaMom says:


        re: “So bad, now I know Robert is gay…. okay, we’ll let George off the hook Bob.”

        Gosh, Boyd – what news! RJJr is “coming out of the closet?” What was the size of that closet, anyway? The SuperDome?

        Who didn’t know? (Right – from Cheorge’s lips to my ear.)

        So now there’s a “redeeming value’ to let a murderer off the hook? “Not my fault. My sibling’s Gay. And so brave to ‘reveal’ it”

        Hmmmm – gotta think on that nugget of jurisprudence, Zimmerman-style.

        Geez, some of my best friends have siblings.

        Memo to Chris, Ian, Nancy, Bunny, Carter, James, Carl, Greggie, Wooly, Ferne, Jayne, Spike, Andrea, Adrienne, Jade, Jacques, Myra, Paul, Margot, Bernice, Frankie, Lois, Lashondra, Lurene, Howie … hey, I love you guys, but don’t introduce me to your brother …

        That Zimmerman family is rotten to the core.
        What more garbage does Junior have to expound?

        Junior showing up singing, “He ain’t guilty, he’s my brother … “

      • LeaNder says:

        And boy, she was mad about the sequester thing, really mad.

        She looks plain through O’Mara’s prevarications. What I loved most is that she will not allow the questions for jury to be taken over by O’Mara.

        I have no idea how she can control the process, but it seems she is very determined to do so. That’s what O’Mara did not like at all, that it will be done the way she always does it.

        George’s security issue has become a bad joke, no matter how much O’Mara tries to hammer it into the willingly guided minds of the present media representatives. Trayvon surely had a security issue that night.

      • groans says:

        @ Leander, re:

        I have no idea how she can control the process, but it seems she is very determined to do so. That’s what O’Mara did not like at all, that it will be done the way she always does it.

        I believe JN said that it’s something that falls within the trial court’s discretion.

      • LeaNder says:

        groan, if I remember correctly Nelson finished a degree in psychology before studying law. Which means she must be aware of test designs. You can design very subtle verification questions to probe fundamental assumptions. I hope she will filter out fundamentally biased people. I also hope she relies on advise in the field. What happened to her former co-students?

        In any case, she obviously realized by now the strategy of defence. It’s so obvious from every single one of their motions or the writ this year.

    • Not Angela Lansbury says:

      Just piping in to say that was an extraordinary response to Turley. It’s getting more and more difficult not to point out the rank racism in some analyses of this case. The more things change…

    • Jun says:

      I can see why Nelson denied the “key evidence”

      1) It’s irrelevant character evidence and can not conclusively prove what happened that night therefore it is prejudicial

      2) It would have opened the door on all of Fogen’s history

      3) It would have wasted court time on pointless character evidence, rather than meat and bones evidence of what happened that night

      4) Whether good or bad character, it does not mean Trayvon assaulted Fogen like he claims happened

      5) The “key evidence” is hearsay and not authentic material and it’s not the circus.

      6) The “key evidence” does not even conclusively prove that Trayvon is a bad person like how Omara is twisting it

      Benjamin “Justice 4 Trayvon” Crump · 280 like this
      Sunday at 1:34pm ·
      Omara and West has lost their minds, from which I believe they are following advice from the Conservative Tinfoil Tree.

      Their latest claim?

      Trayvon allegedly has a picture of a gun

      Okay Mr. Defense team, if Trayvon is considered dangerous because someone used his phone to take a photo of a gun (it could be real, or a BB gun) or it could be a downloaded photo, then what does that say about Fogen, who always carried a gun?

      What does that say about Fogen who was rolling around strapped to the teeth with guns and knives?

      What does that say about George Zimmernuts?

      What’s more dangerous, a photo of a gun in a phone or George Zimmernuts Fogen who always went around with a gun?

      So Fogen is not dangerous, although he terrorized a kid, and shot the kid as the kid screamed and begged for his life? That’s your case Omara and West?

      The other stupid crap with their newest claims is alleged texts in Trayvon’s phone.

      All the texts stated were “hits” and everything from Omara and West are pure speculation

      1) Trayvon or whomever used the phone at the time to text, may have been talking about a video game.

      2) Trayvon or whomever used the phone at the time to text, may have simply been horsing around and making jokes

      3) If it really was about a fight Trayvon had, it was with a kid his own age, and Trayvon could barely handle him, according to the texts, which makes Fogen’s story even more ridiculous, because it shows Trayvon is a wimpy kid who can’t fight worth a damn.

      4) Everything about the texts are pure speculation and were not about the night in question, which was when Fogen targeted, stalked, terrorized, and murdered Trayvon, as Trayvon begged for his life and pleaded for Fogen to “stop”.

      Next up is their photo of Trayvon or someone who looks like Trayvon (do not put it past these idiots) inhaling smoke. The smoke could have been hookah, cigarette or marijuana and no one truly knows, and even if it was marijuana, who cares.

      It’s 2013 and almost everyone in America has tried marijuana, including presidents and George Washington, and know the studies on it, and marijuana makes you sleepy, tired, hungry, and happy.

      The scientific studies have already been done and if Omara or West think they know more than what all scientists already know, they must be kidding.

      The case is not about marijuana use and marijuana has already been studied and debated and in fact, has been legalized for medical use in Florida.

      It’s a waste of court time.

      All I can do is SMH

      • lurker says:

        Yeah–I can’t wait to see the defense experts try to convince a jury of average Americans that marijuana makes a person violent.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Great posts, Malisha and Jun.

      • groans says:

        Jun, what’s the significance of texts being “hits,” please? I don’t know the requisite lingo to understand. Thanks.

      • Jun says:

        I do not know the significance, I just know they mentioned it as if it was some type of proof, because allegedly Trayvon had a conversation about something involving hits, so either a video game or some type of game and rounds

    • Judy75201 says:

      Brava! X2. You are so gifted, Malisha.

    • LeaNder says:

      Malisha, I am basically pretty close to Mike’s scenario. I also respect him a lot.

      But I think he is wrong concerning the plea deal. Do you still think this could happen? I really wonder how one can still believe this at this point. Could the jury downgrade to manslaughter? But maybe I am wrong.

      What is slightly puzzling me, considering his assessment of Fogen’s character, is, how can he believe Fogen would ever accept such a deal? It feels he has no chance but to accept whatever he is given without consent since it would help him to keep up the political victim image for his fanbase. There is no way out of it. His last hope will be a free George movement after he is convicted, after all. His brother is already working in that direction, it feels.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        The jury can downgrade if there’s reasonable doubt for M2 but they still feel Fogen is culpable for Trayvon’s death. But the state probably won’t offer a plea at this late date, which shows they’re pretty confident of the charges and the evidence for a conviction..

      • racerrodig says:

        “His brother is already working in that direction, it feels.”

        That a $1.00 won’t buy a cup of coffee. It won’t matter what Robbie the Racist says or does. The evidence is so strong and we still haven’t seen it all. Even when the defense releases something they brand as a bombshell it is either proven to be concocted, outright fraudulent, inadmissible, or irrelevant.

        O’ Mara walks out of the court room with his tail between his legs and then thinks he can stand in front of a camera and blow smoke up our butts ?? He ain’t fooling anyone.

        Think about this….who would hire Robbie the Racist at this point. He and O’ Mara can open a cesspool cleaning operation and still nobody will hire them.

        • They don’t like the taste of Crow….nor will they eat any if offered……hannity…..no regrets?…..Add infinitum at this point….

          Ya know I could gain some respect for fogen were he to man up….tell the truth….and accept the consequences….

          We all know that’s not going to happen…

          HOODIES UP

      • Trained Observer says:

        LeaNder — Yes, the jury can downgrade to manslaughter. But after evidence and testimony are revealed, jurors likely will be puzzled over why the charge wasn’t M1.

      • Malisha says:

        I used to believe there would be a quick plea that was pre-arranged by both sides, believing them all to be corrupt. Now I am not sure because of the evidence that has been released so far from enhanced 911 tapes and ballistics. Now, I can’t call it.

        If there is no pre-arranged corrupt deal going on then there will NOT be a plea deal unless he pleads in return for 20 years, because the evidence that has come out so far is enough for anybody to realize the prosecution’s case is strong.

        Don’t ask me what kind of motive Baez had for calling this case “weak” in view of the fact that his client, Serino, wanted the defendant charged with Murder-2 when he first investigated the case. Too much subtle, overt, complex and transparent racism has gone into the mix at this point for me to be able to tease apart the various strains and express an opinion (about what the various parties will do and what their motivations will be) that I don’t find inadequate within minutes, based on other variables in changing equations.

      • LeaNder says:

        Don’t ask me what kind of motive Baez had for calling this case “weak” in view of the fact that his client, Serino, wanted the defendant charged with Murder-2 when he first investigated the case.

        From the top of my head, Malisha. It no doubt will be highly interesting for me to watch Serino on the stand. Compare my impressions with what others here thought about him. Somehow there is no way around it, is there? Or could he be kept out just as other officers generally? My uninformed impression is that Nelson only threw out all officers not directly involved in the case, including Lee. In other words all that have to offer nothing but hearsay about a “general consent” to let GZ go.

        Baez got his client out of jail by using legal tricks. I think for many lawyers that’s what it is all what it is about. It’s not about guilt or innocence, it’s ultimately about being able to win only. So he cannot really say O’Mara could not make it too. Could strike some as arrogant. Remember how O’Mara himself got him involved in the case, after BDLR dropped a not quite correct comment?

        I wonder if he really looked into the case more closely, besides being present when Serino was deposed, and protecting his rights at that point, maybe during the trial too? I also doubt that many lawyers hired or asked by media study the cases closely. Feels like a simple cost-benefit calculation that many may well employ in the context. I also think that he may well have a very limited perspective on the case, meaning what he has do to protect his client. He also has to be very careful to not tell matters connected to his client privilege. …

        Besides Serino knows a lot about inside pressure, I somehow doubt he would have ever written the Capias without at least the support of Singleton but more importantly Randy Smith.

        The first paragraph reminds me I will have limited time to follow the trial in the first two weeks of August, maybe none at all. I surely hope people will record it for me and others.

      • LeaNder says:

        I should have added here: nothing but hearsay or their private opinions

      • LeaNder says:

        For whatever reason, someone else surfaced concerning Serino. William Erwin, who was deposed twice by defence. The guy that did the voice stress test. During which he warned Fogen of Serino.

        And who seems to have been present and witnessed on Tracy Martin’s statements? Why were all these officers around? Why were they interested in Tracy’s statements, and did not trust Serino to tell them whatever they needed to know?

        Serino only mentions Leon Ciesla, who was close by in his own report. Ciesla in turn added a note to his own case report the same day serino wrote the addition ROI of Tracy Martin’s statement. Ciesla only tells us, he couldn’t hear what was being said, since Tracy Martin spoke very, very low.

        I have to admit that Serino did not add this bit of information earlier makes me slightly biased in favour of him.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        “Ya know I could gain some respect for fogen were he to man up….tell the truth….and accept the consequences….”

        MMP – Fogen could rapidly end his misery and step on the path to transformation if he’d just get in that box and end the charade. . .

        • Yeah…..Yet again….we all know he won’t do it…

          Remember this is the same man who called the cops on his landlord because he confronted him in a store about the unpaid rent !!!!!!!!!

      • KA says:

        But, if the State does not enter the “self serving” interviews by GZ to the police officers that night, what would they be testifying about? Probably evidence?

        • LeaNder says:

          But, if the State does not enter the “self serving” interviews by GZ to the police officers that night, what would they be testifying about? Probably evidence?

          KA, precisely, I wondered, if that would be possible at all. But admittedly I was also slightly confused if my memory trails concerning the recent flood of motions is correct at all. In any case this is the motion I had in mind:

          State’s motion to limit/exclude improper opinion evidence.

          Defendant has indicated via questioning in pretrial proceedings that he apparently intends to attempt to argue or introduce opinion testimony from one or more witnesses as to their opinion, prior to and/or after Defendant’s arrest, as to his guilt or the propriety of his being criminally charged.

          Below the response by Team Fogen, a particularly deceptive argument. There is not the least indication the state intends or ever intended to use the type of argument as they suggest. What I remember well though is that defense made exactly this type of argument after a series of depositions of SPD officers. That was the point when Serino was singled out as some type of surprise dissenter, who never ever showed he disagreed with the the notion that there was not enough evidence to prosecute Fogen. The only other person O’Mara or these officers singled out as not completely convinced of Fogen’s narrative was Randy Smith, Serino’s superior (on the wheel next to Fogen during the reenactment, but not on duty the night of the shooting)

          Now look at the argument in O’Mara’s response to the above state motion:

          Should the state by argument or through a witness in any way suggest that the delay in arresting George Zimmerman was because of ineptitude, racial bias or political consideration rather than from a lack of credible evidence that he had committed a crime, the professional opinions of high ranking members of law enforcement and the Seminole County State Attorney’s Office would become relevant. It would be unfair to Mr. Zimmerman and to those who have dedicated their lives to public service to allow their good names to be smeared and then deny the defendant an opportunity to defend those unfounded accusations.

          Why would they want to do that? Lot’s of hot air of course, since prosecution would obviously never do what defense claims above. If anyone would like to use the type of “public pressure” over internal SPD consent argument it surely is defense and not prosecution. And that is simply the Janus face of the above argument: Serino acted under public pressure against the consent that there was no evidence for charging GZ.

    • Malisha says:

      Oops, typo. Not “murder for Zimmerman to kill Trayvon Martin” but “MOTIVE for Zimmerman to kill Trayvon Martin” — 😳

    • Trained Observer says:

      Malisha — How depraved does a shooting like this need to be for these guys who think manslaughter might be the way to go?

      Once Fogen decided to get a notch in his belt for taking down a suspicious character, he couldn’t get a grip on himself, only on his gun’s trigger. It was key to shut the kid up because cops would be on the scene any second. Fogen figured he could lie his way out of this little pickle (after all it was only a fuckin’ punk), what with his daddy’s connections … and it almost worked.

      But whoa! Trayvon had smart, caring parents and they knew someone who put them in touch with Ben Crump. At that very moment (hindsight will eventually show us) , it was all over for Fogen, the flunkin’ dunce of a killer.

      • racerrodig says:

        His FB post “How ’bout datniggyTB” is going to solidify his depraved mind. He was bragging, just like when any of us has an accomplishment we are proud of or our kids and such. I’ve used this one about some of my racing round wins…..sure kicked his ass. I never touched anyone….I merely beat them in a race.

        Why would Fogen say what he did….and this was because he never thought he be charged….absolutely no conscience at all.

      • Malisha says:

        Racer, did he tweet the “datniggyTB” AFTER he killed Trayvon Martin or before?

        I’m confused.

        If AFTER then — I’m very nearly speechless.

        • racerrodig says:

          The day after. It’s obvious what it meant and a few weeks after it was discovered Robbie the Racist went on tour stating Fogens
          nickname for years was “Datniggy” and “TB” meant Tug Boat because Fogen is the size of a tug boat…..in reality, he’s a lying sack of shit, (pardon my French) and apologies to all boat owners.

          Despicable they are, one and all.

      • LeaNder says:

        Malisha, if I may interfere, I don’t think the argument works. The name for the myspace page must have been much older. I remember looking at it at the time. Would it be so easy to transfer the whole content to a new name? Maybe. But why do it at a time you surely have very different problems and worries than the name of your myspace site. I doubt he is that stupid. But here is a report on it from April 2012.

    • kllypyn says:

      Excuse me he was no different than most teens he was not a kid with a lengthy criminal background other than smoking weed and more than half of teens have smoked weed. and most teens get into fights sometimes the only ones with a propensity for violence are teenage bullies. trayvon was never a bully.he was a good kid who screwed up sometimes. I’d like to know why they ignore Zimmerpunks violent history. and his obvious lies

  53. Big Willie says:

    Is it my imagination or does the media appear to be bias towards Foggen.

    • Big Willie says:

      Also, O’mara told media today, “we’re ready and looking for to getting the case tried”. So why does he keep asking for continuances…

    • Shari says:

      You’re not imagining anything. I can’t wait for this trial to begin.

    • Xena says:

      The media is agreeing with Judge Nelson. Had O’Mara prevailed on his motions, the media would have gone the other way.

    • Malisha says:

      Today the radio reported that the judge ruled that “the evidence of Trayvon Martin’s love for guns and drug use” could not be used at trial. Not even using the word “alleged” — as if O’Mara putting out the word means not only alleged but proven without so much as a “WTF” — but I laughed. I laughed, I tell you.

      I’m not a betting man but I’ll put my money on: GUESS WHAT: this avails you nothing, guys. Your boy’s goin’ to the hooskow.

  54. kllypyn says:

    conspiracy theory what conspiracy theory?

  55. Rachael says:

    Whatever. LOL It’s all Greek to me.

  56. Two sides to a story says:

    Beta? Delta? Gamma?

    • LeaNder says:

      alpha, beta, gamma, delta, epsilon, zeta, eta, theta, iota, kappa, lambda, my, ny, xi, omikron, pi, rho, sigma, tau, ypsilon, phi, chi, psi, omega

      • Malisha says:

        Leander, you should never have been suspended from school. You’re the best student! Student of the Year!

        It makes me want to show off today:

        Aleph, Bet (Vet), Gimmel, Daled, Hey, Vuv, Zion, Ches, Tess Yud, kof (chof, chof-sofis), lamed, mem (mem-sofis), nun (nun-sofis), samech, aiyon, pay (fay, fay-sofis), tzadi (tzadi-sofis), kuf, rashe, shin (sin), toff (soff).


        • LeaNder says:

          I tried to learn that when I learned the greek alphabet, I was alway fascinated by the characters and especially the idea of connecting them with numbers, which I did, starting with the discovery of digit sums in mathematics with eight or nine maybe.

          But the greek alphabet you need of course to look up words. You would need hours to find then without knowing it.

          I wrote a comment over at Jonathan Turley, I won’t even correct the typos. I was somehow angry after reading his article admittedly.

      • racerrodig says:

        Alpha – Bravo – Charlie – Delta – Echo – Foxtrot – Golf – Hotel – India – Juliet – Kilo – Lima – Mike – November – Oscar – Papa – Quebec – Romeo – Sierra – Tango – Uniform – Victor – Whiskey –
        X Ray – Yankee – Zulu…..as my Boy Scout / boat owner memory serves me correctly.

        Or as we all know Z is now Zidiot.

        • Only met one at the rendezvous this weekend……No sense in trying to discuss it with a zimbot….once I found out where he stood….I avoided him for the weekend……

          Reading some of the comment threads……..zidiots will state anything as FACT …….Trayvon had swollen knuckles? First time I’ve heard that one……..

          They will also try any means to put the fault on Trayvon…

          1. He should have checked in with the HOA and given them a picture….WTF?

          2. A teenager could have outrun a “middle aged man”…….If 27 is middle aged?….I’m ancient 😦

          I’m glad the judge denied the extension…..I just hope they don’t drag this trial out…..Any guesses how long the trial will last?

          • racerrodig says:

            I think O’ Moron will play a lot of games, all to no avail, the experts will be grilled, yet win out, Dee Dee will have an emotional time, carry the 5, divide by the coefficient of drag and I’ll say about 4 – 5 weeks not counting voir dire.

            O’ Mara and West will make this look like the work F. Lee Bailey.

            And O’ Mara will continually say things off limits and the side bars will be intolerable.

          • They don’t even have their “experts” chosen……begging the court to make the “experts” lower their fees !!!!!!!!!

            Pro Bono like these 2 idiots?

            Prof. …….Hypothetical question……At this point do you think fogen would have been better off with Public Defenders?

          • racerrodig says:

            Experts…….experts we don’t need no stinkin’ experts….
            Ahahahahahahahaha !!!!!!

        • fauxmccoy says:

          and then there’s me … i like to phuck with people and say
          “x as in xylophone”
          “p and in pheasant”
          “c as in circus”

          there’s more where that came from, but you get the idea 🙂

          • racerrodig says:

            Kool !! Welcome to the asylum !! Seems everyone is in rare form ever since the Professor ripped on the defense last week….and I’m damn glad of it !!

            Here is the Fogen Alphabet

            A ~ Always
            B ~ Been a
            C ~ Circus
            D ~ Defense
            E ~ Ever
            F ~ Fraudulent
            G ~ Goons
            H ~ Heinous
            I ~ Idiotic

            Need more……tag !! You’re it !!

          • fauxmccoy says:

            w —–
            x ——— eh, who needs these letters?
            y —–
            zimfool apologist defense

          • PiranhaMom says:


            re: “quintessentially
            w —–
            x ——— eh, who needs these letters?
            y —–

            Fauxy, we need those letters for


            X-rated, and

            YIPEEE! jurors send Z to the slammer!

          • racerrodig says:

            See how easy that was !!!!!

          • fauxmccoy says:


            i happily accept your amendments. can we get a second on this motion? 🙂

          • racerrodig says:

            I see you got it ……(homie) Very Good !!

      • Rachael says:

        I think he will TRY to play a lot of games, but I don’t think this judge is into game. I don’t think he’ll get far with that strategy.

      • Malisha says:

        MMPat, the trial will last as long as it takes O’Mara and West to run out of hot air. OMG — forEVER! 😈

      • Jun says:

        I dont think those pumps for hot air balloons are needed anymore

        Omara and West and team Fogen have enough hot air to keep the world’s supply of hot air balloons going strong

        Thus far, we have witnessed

        1) Experts say that the state’s experts are not experts and they are using phony scientific methods. The defense will request 3 years to bring these experts to you and how we came to that conclusion, it was not the Conservative Tinfoil hat.

        2) Reefer Madness. It’s not a US comedy movie anymore, it’s evidence, and although Trayvon was not born when it was made, it is relevant.

        3) Look, the defense has experts with lots of degrees like Fogen who can testify that the expert for the state is not an expert. Yes, it is not RZ Jr. dressed up in a costume blowing hot air like he does on Piers Morgan.

        4) RZ Jr is not a racist so that means it’s a conspiracy by the blacks, the liberal media run by Jews, the gay community, btw RZ Jr is a gay man.

        5) Fogen was not stalking and chasing Trayvon, and then committing murder, but what happened was that Trayvon played hide and seek with Fogen.

        6) Photos of marijuana or alleged marijuana plants, whether downloaded or taken with the cellphone camera, is evidence that Fogen acted in self defense. How it adds up, the defense has no reasoning or sensibility to show you.

        7) Fogen had a real gun he used to stalk and kill Trayvon, as Trayvon screamed for help and begged for his life. But what is more deadly is, Trayvon has a photo on his phone of a black hand holding a gun.

        8) The defense requests sanctions for discovery and evidence they received almost a year ago.

        9) The defense will be trying the case in the court of law

        10) Papa Z is an audio expert, because he was once a magistrate and related to Fogen LOL

        11) The defense will not have the immunity hearing, because they can have it 10 years after the murder trial, just wait because the defense will whine to the appellate court.

        12) Fogen began stalking Trayvon at the clubhouse, and then admits to chasing the teen with a gun. How Fogen ended up over 500 feet away and at the same location as where Trayvon was running to, murdering the kid, Fogen or Omara does not know.

        13) After a year, the defense admits that they are not ready for trial.

        14) It’s prejudicial that Trayvon was screaming for help and begging for his life, before being killed by Fogen.

        15) Bernie is not allowed to object to videotaped depositions, which is a manner to which a deposition is held, although it says Bernie can in the rules of procedure for both civil and criminal law. Although it says that the person who orders the videotape sessions must pay the videographer, Omara wants Bernie to pay for it and it’s a sanction.

        16) Telling Omara to go straight to the source, witness 8, for information, is prejudicial and sanctions are needed.

        17) Fogen refuses to give Omara money, so sanctions are needed against Bernie DLR

        18) There’s no reason to arrest and try Fogen because all he did was stalk and kill a kid screaming for help and begging for his life. The defense means the expert witness and all on scene witnesses are wrong and biased, but Fogen is not possibly biased at all and Fogen is always truthful

        19) Trayvon’s grades are needed to prove Fogen’s case.

        20) RZ Jr is the only expert and he is not allowed to be challenged or questioned because he is never wrong and knows everything although he was not there

        I know my list sounds like Jon Stewart’s comedy routines but low and behold folks, it’s actually Omara and Fogen Gang

      • Malisha says:

        Z … let’s see …

        W for warning (“We don’t need you to do that”);
        X for xenophobic (“There’s a real suspicious guy”);
        Y for Yessir (“Do you understand that you have a right to a pretrial hearing?”)
        Z for … well, for Fogen. Z is for Fogen.

    • Whiskey hotel alpha tango / alpha bravo oscar utah tango / tango hotel echo / poppa oscar tango ?

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