Defense team is out of control

Sunday, May 26, 2013

Good afternoon:

Countdown: Only 2 days until the May 28th hearing and the trial gets underway with jury selection 2 weeks from tomorrow.

In today’s post, I am going to follow-up on Friday’s post with some important new information that will more clearly reveal the defense strategy.

In tomorrow’s post, I will breakdown Tuesday’s hearing.

Now, let’s take another look at what happened last week.

Two important criminal defense attorneys in Florida, Eugene Nichols and Jeff Deen, criticized the Zimmerman defense team for publicizing private, irrelevant and inadmissible evidence about Trayvon Martin.

Eugene Nichols is the newly elected President of the Florida Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, which is the Florida affiliate of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers (NACDL). Jeff Deen is a former assistant state attorney and the present director of a state agency that represents criminal defendants.

I support and thank both of them for speaking out because, when a criminal defense lawyer deliberately commits a sleazy and indefensible error like this in a high visibility case, the misconduct can splash onto all criminal lawyers. Let’s face it, the public does not have a high regard for criminal defense lawyers. To many people an incident like this would merely confirm their low opinion of criminal defense lawyers in general.

That is one reason why I spoke out Friday and used the word “disgusting” to describe what they did. The other reason, of course, is that, as the blog owner, I have a duty to report what I observe without mincing words. After 48 hours to reflect on what I said in Friday’s post, my opinion has not changed. As I will proceed to explain, I am even more disgusted today than I was Friday.

I hope a lot more criminal defense lawyers will publicly condemn the defense team over the weekend. We need to remind the public that criminal defense lawyers are officers of the court who respect the law and abide by the rules of professional conduct even as they fight for their clients.

Mark O’Mara and Don West are violating those core principles by doing everything they can to obstruct due process of law and the fair administration of justice. For example, consider the following:

1. By waiving the pretrial immunity hearing, they have, in effect, conceded that they cannot prove by a preponderance of the evidence that the defendant killed Trayvon Martin in self-defense.

2. As lawyers admitted to practice by the Supreme Court of Florida and authorized to represent themselves to the public as specialists in the practice of criminal law and trying cases, they can be presumed to know the rules that govern the admissibility of evidence in criminal trials conducted in the circuit courts. Therefore, they knew that the information that they publicized last week about Trayvon would not be admissible at trial for any purpose pursuant to rules 401, 402, 403 and 608 of the rules of evidence.

3. They waited to publicize the irrelevant and inadmissible information until after the 500 people in the jury pool were notified by summons to report to court for jury selection on June 10th, thereby increasing the likelihood that most of the prospective jurors will have heard or read about it before June 10th.

4. In an effort to avoid being held accountable for poisoning the jury panel with irrelevant and inadmissible information, Mark O’Mara blamed Bernie de la Rionda. He said BDLR withheld the information from the defense in violation of the discovery rules and the Brady rule, which requires the State to disclose exculpatory information well in advance of the trial.

5. That explanation is false because:

a. the Brady rule does not apply since the information is not exculpatory for the same reason that it is irrelevant and inadmissible;

b. even if the information were exculpatory, BDLR disclosed it in timely fashion in early January;

c. The information was in the form of raw data, which is the same format that it was in when BDLR received it;

d. The defense specifically asked to be provided with the raw data and that is what it received;

e. the defense waited until after the jury summmons were mailed out to retain an expert to interpret the raw data; and

f. the defense waited until the last possible moment before the May 28th motions hearing to publicize the irrelevant and inadmissible information and to file its motion asking Judge Nelson to impose sanctions against BDLR.

6. The timing and sequence of these events constitutes powerful circumstantial evidence that poisoning the jury pool with irrelevant and inadmissible evidence was the defense team’s real motive.

7. Lawyers are required to act in good faith and prohibited from intentionally deceiving the Court.

8. Thus, defense counsel appear to have intentionally created an unringing-the-bell problem.

9. Courtesy of Robert Zimmerman, Sr., and Jr., last week the jury panel also got to hear them say that the prosecution is the result of a conspiracy between the governor, the prosecution and the judiciary to convict an innocent man.

The apparent purpose of these efforts is to maximize the possibility of seating one or more pro-Zimmerman jurors in stealth-like fashion, who are determined to acquit the defendant, regardless of the evidence and the Court’s instructions.

With exception of a deadly mix of stupidity, ignorance and incompetence that I doubt to be the case, I cannot think of any other explanation for the strange tactical decisions and materially false statements by the defense.

We should soon see an effort by the defense through one of its proxies to inform the jury panel that jurors have a right to vote their conscience in disregard of the evidence and the instructions (i.e., jury nullification).

In conclusion I believe defense counsel are engaging in a conspiracy to obstruct justice which is unlawful and unethical.

If I am correct, they should be disbarred from the practice of law.

In the meantime, I think the best way to promote Justice for Trayvon (as well as George Zimmerman) is to communicate our concerns to others and hope that BDLR and Judge Nelson put some serious hurt on the defense strategy by granting the State’s motions in limine, including the motion for a gag order. The defense motions should be denied.


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413 Responses to Defense team is out of control

    • elcymoo says:

      Rachael, I’ve referred to the ‘Ameican Thinker’ as the ‘American Stinker’ for years now. This sliming of a dead teenager is just more of their same old stuff.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Ugh, as if Fogen’s life didn’t just unravel due to his chronically deficient decision-making.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      If it weren’t for the 1st Amendment . . . POW!

      I put on my goggles and waders for a couple of minutes – was amused at the Fogen supporters who think the defense “painted the prosecution into a corner” as well as being glad there’s no continuance even though the defense wanted one – they think Fogen will walk sooner. : / Wha? Still floating down da Nile.

  1. elcymoo says:

    It’s 30 minutes away from camera time here in CT. My coffeemaker’s going to be working overtime today.

    • elcymoo says:

      By ‘CT’, I meant Central Time, not Connecticut. I’ll be viewing from OK, which runs on Bible Belt Time.

  2. Soulcatcher says:

    Good morning from the west coast. It’s 5 am, the hearing should begin in approx 1 hr if I am correct?

  3. Tasha Harris says:

    The Zimmerman family have turned out to be a very non-likable bunch of people. I don’t think a gag order is necessary. On regards to the info about Trayvon its interesting that he would be portrayed as a lover of violence and guns when he was violented killed by a gun lover. If the defense had a strong casw first of all they would have held an SYG hearing and secondly these desperate attempts to delay the trial and poison the jury pool wouldn’t exist. “Let them be”, I say.

    • Soulcatcher says:

      @Tasha Harris

      I don’t know if you followed the Casey Anthony case, but I believe that 99% of the world thought she was guilty and there was enough evidence to convict her. The def pulled some pretty sleazy tactics with the jury, and were even told by the judge to disregard the story of what the accused states happened. The seed was planted, and all 12 village idiots voted her not guilty. If you followed that case, as we do this one…..All I can say is I am still haunted to this day with that verdict. Some people will say there was not enough evidence to convict her, I say bullshit to that. The Judge even stated a couple of weeks ago, there was enough evidence, ahd he was shocked as well with the verdict.

      There desperate attempts worked, so no I cant agree with the “let them be.” Enough is Enough. I believe the harm has been done, we can only hope we don’t end up with 6 village idiots.

      • Malisha says:

        But the experience in the Casey Anthony case really shows that the jury will concentrate on what they hear in that room rather than on what the newspapers have been saying for months and what the public opinion is and what the “common wisdom” is before the trial begins. THAT IS WHY I AM NOT WORRIED about the O’Mara/West tactics of attempted jury contamination. Jurors really do tend to take their jobs seriously in there and they will listen to what is going on IN THERE regardless of what the rest of the country believes or what the newspapers have been saying. Judge Nelson is not going to let this trial get out of control; she is good at managing nonsense and she will keep this thing kosher.

        Also, Casey Anthony did not admit to killing the baby but then give an idiotic explanation for it and expect to be believed. There was still plenty of room for doubt as to who had actually committed the murder itself, and only circumstantial evidence that it was her, and not some other family member, who did the actual killing. We don’t have that in the Trayvon Martin murder case. It’s simply a question of whether Fogen killed in a depraved state of murderous misconduct or whether he killed in self-defense, which, at this point, is very nearly moot since he did not even attempt a SYG hearing.

        • Xena says:


          THAT IS WHY I AM NOT WORRIED about the O’Mara/West tactics of attempted jury contamination.

          Yes. I might be a bit more concerned if there were 12 jurors and alternatives.

  4. elcymoo says:

    Livestreaming today’s evidentiary hearing:

    George Zimmerman: Hearing today to discuss trial delay and evidence

  5. Soulcatcher says:

  6. Not Angela Lansbury says:

    Great post, Professor. I have a lot of respect for criminal defense lawyers who leave the field. It’s clear to me that when you have a client as guilty as Fogen, you’re almost forced by professional ethics to bend the Rules of Professional Conduct to the breaking point. To defend their guilty client against overwhelming evidence, MOM and West really have no choice but to find or make a nullifying juror, and diminishing the victim is a necessary part of the task.

    The thing is, they know they don’t have to make any sense to their target demographic. All they need are symbols that spawn fear. It doesn’t matter to them whose black hand was holding that gun, or that no law was broken regardless. It doesn’t matter that the kid in the B&W striped shirt was stopping the street fight, not refereeing it. The vast majority of Fogen supporters are both extremely scared and extremely stupid. I don’t say that gratuitously because I have spent a lot of time talking to them online, and I’ve drawn them out and seen it up close. Their fear is a consequence of their general inability to make sense of the world. They are the reason we have so few words on street signs, and they think everybody who doesn’t look and think and live like them is out to get them. They don’t care about facts because they think they’re at war.

    Here’s a recent example from one of the few remaining Fogenites, Dr. Controversy (Unicron on the nutty blogs):

    He called LLMPapa a liar when Papa pointed out one of Fogen’s many inconsistencies (in the “26 Days, George” video), namely that the few drops of blood on Fogen’s face and head in Officer Wagner’s photo didn’t match his claim that his face and head were covered in blood. This Fogenite used the EMT’s statement at the bond hearing (“45% of his head and his face were covered in blood”) to conclude that EMT’s must have cleaned Fogen up before Wagner took the shot. The very first commenter (seutoobacct) pointed out that Wagner’s shot was taken before EMT’s got to Fogen, and went back later with EXIF data to prove it, but Fogenites don’t care about facts. Their position is that Fogen told nothing but the truth and they’re sticking with that. So if the evidence conflicts, there’s something wrong with the evidence.

    Now if MOM and West can just get folks like that on the jury…

    • Malisha says:

      Mary and Velma (Thelma?) saw Fogen before the pictures were taken; neither mentioned blood all over him. Also the witness who mentioned that Fogen asked him, “Am I bleeding?” did not indicate what he had answered to that question. Am I remembering wrong? I do think that if Fogen dares to put on a self-defense affirmative defense at trial, there will be rebuttal witnesses who, naturally, have not been put on the witness list yet because, of course, they are not needed for the prosecution’s main case.

      • Not Angela Lansbury says:

        That “Am I bleeding?” quote says so much. Is that the first thing you think to say after taking a human life? Just wow. One of the commenters on that video said something to the effect that Fogen must have smeared his own blood over his head and face while he was waiting on the EMT’s after Wagner took that photo. This quote of his backs that up. He had an interest in appearing to have a lot of blood on him because he knew there wasn’t enough to support a self defense claim. So he made it look like he had more blood than he did. Instead of supporting his story, what that does is make him look guilty.

  7. Just testing to see if I can post this screen shot. I hope it works!

    George Zimmerman face in the doorway of right hand corner.

  8. kllypyn says:

    Smoked weed,got into a fight a couple of times,wanted a gun. Well i guess by zimmerpunks logic he would be defending himself if he killed every teenager in the country because they have at least
    done one of those things. even zimmerpunk if he really wants to go their his own worse acts would be admissible.they may not want to go there.Hey that means most adults too including some of his supporters. and his own brother and both his parents.

  9. smokeegyrl says:

    I hope Judge Nelson reprimands the Defense Team for their actions. I hope she denies every single one of their motions. I remember when BDLR didn’t want this trial to put up front in the public media. I hope she hears BDLR tomorrow on why the Defense team should be gagged. I am going to say a prayer tonight.

  10. Xena says:

    Mark O’Mara’s problem or at least, one of them. 🙂

  11. ay2z says:

    Slip Sliding Away, all the negativity of a dead child as the defense will be …. sliping away…..

    for our friends here, enjoy a break

  12. disappointed says:

    I feel like being petty so I am sorry ahead of time. Why are so many people defending a man that looks as if he has been in hiding at the local Publix? Who kills a child and then blames the child? What is it with some peeps in Florida? Own up to your ignorance. Why is everyone cool with this adult male following a child? In the dark, scaring him! Who has been accused of chester molester qualities no less.

    • Tzar says:

      As much as I follow this case I still ask myself that every once in a while
      I know the answer, i just have a hard time living with it everyday

  13. KA says:

    I am hoping for a “take a gander at these jail calls, Judge” moment tomorrow. I would love if BLDR walked in with proof many of the pictures did not come off the cell phone and were not even Trayvon.

    Expose the malicious and fraudulent behavior of the defense. Maybe they will get a “delay of trial” by sitting in a jail cell for a while.

  14. Racially Segregated ‘Black-Only Pods’ in Florida County Jail

    U.S. Department of Justice investigators found a number of unconstitutional practices at the Escambia County Jail facility in northwest Florida that “constitute serious risks to prisoner safety,” according to the Justice Department’s findings letter. Among those problems were insufficient access to mental healthcare for the inmates, and racial segregation of black prisoners. Said the U.S. Department of Justice in a release:

    Specifically, the department concluded that known systemic deficiencies at the facility, stemming mainly from staffing shortages, continue to subject prisoners to excessive risk of assault by other prisoners and to inadequate mental health care. Additionally, the department found that until recently, the jail had an informal policy and practice of designating some of its housing units as only for African-American prisoners. By segregating some of its prisoners on the basis of race, the jail not only stigmatized and discriminated against many of its African-American prisoners, it also fanned combustible racial tensions within the jail.

    The racial segregation of black inmates into “black-only pods” had been occurring for decades. Justice officials first discovered the practice in October last year during a tour. They warned Escambia County Jail officials then that this was a breach of 14th Amendment equal protection rights. According to the findings letter, “For decades, the Jail’s officials have assumed that segregating on the basis of race would lead to a safer facility.”

  15. MichelleO says:


    Justice For Trayvon!

  16. willisnewton says:

    Are you guys commenting on a segment on cable news? It’s unclear.

  17. BillT says:

    twin trees lane is the ONLY ENTRANCE and exit from the property for cars, to find his home he had to drive on twin trees lane, passing the sign saying that every time he left and returned for 3 years, he patrolled the area and it only has 3 streets……

    how can any rational adult accept him LYING about not knowing the streets name?

    • I’m going to grant him this one. When he was trying to tell the police where he was at, he didn’t give a street name. I suspect that I have what he has when occasionally I can’t even remember the name of the partner I worked with for the last year. Then I see them and say their name automatically.

      But then again, he could be using this as an excuse for many years and then now since it worked so well for him for such a long time.

    • racerrodig says:

      Must be that “Short Term Vision” Both he and Frank “The Racist Tank” Taaffe have it. Damn !! how did he know where he lived ?

      Did he call SheLie everyday, “…, pookie, I’m lost again, what street do we live on again??”

  18. tonydphotog says:

    I just don’t understand!!! Why does it seem that all the media is pro-fogen?

  19. Mary Davis says:

    Lord help me. I’m speechless.

  20. Mary Davis says:

    Yall have got see this. fogen is doing most of the talking, and when asked a simple question he says he can’t remember. Next is the re-enactment at the crime scene. This is my first time seeing this. The whole police department should face charges for letting this POS walk. They knew good and well that he murdered Tyayvon in cold blood.

  21. Mary Davis says:

    Everyone, please turn to HLN. This BS is a crying shame.

  22. BillT says:

    this stuff is shocking, i hadnt seen his voice stress test where he directly contradicts his own NEN call, how on earth the police didnt arrest him right then is beyond me?????

    his showed his whole story is BS, saying he lost martin and NEN told him to go find a place you can watch him from…..claiming he was on the phone while martin circled his truck.

    the sanford police dept is GUILTY of obstruction of justice NOT acting when fogens whole story contradicts itself.

    • looneydoone says:

      wolfinger had the final say as State Atty/Dist Atty. He refused to approve the capias Serino had prepared. Who contacted off duty SA wolfinger (at home) and at what time ?

    • Mary Davis says:

      @ BillT. WTF is this. He said that the EMS or police officer said when they arrived on the scene that his nose was broken and he would need at least three stitches to the back of his head. This is the first time I’ve seen this BS. All this healed by the time he got to the police station. Unbelievable.

  23. BillT says:

    the host on HLN is so far off base it isnt funny….he just said fogen will next show how he got the bruise on his head, BUT there is NO bruise.and NO black eyes but i do admit the oversized band aid does cast a SHADOW giving a darker appearance where it is.

  24. Judy75201 says:

    I’m not concerned about anything released about Trayvon. Lord, compare Trayvon’s texts to things said by the Steubenville students. Now that is dirt. Even West admitted in a footnote that Trayvon was not as bad as all that.

  25. pat deadder says:

    I have been looking for this video forever.Please please watch it.It shows forgen’s reflection in the club house door window as he slinks around the corner.It looks like he has something in his hand.This is before his NEN call.So he was stalking Trayvon before he called.You have to have the patience of Job to get through it but it’s worth it.I have no idea how to show it here.I bet BDLR has it.It is Diwata Man may29 2012 Fronmt doors.Avi Fronmt is not a typo.It is from clubhouse camera.

    • KA says:

      I have long thought the clubhouse video was very telling and had significant purpose. Whether or not Zimmerman testifies, showing he was “on the hunt” before calling NEN has got to be a nail in the case.

    • tonydphotog says:

      If you’re referring to the video where it shows one frame that looks like him, it’s not his reflection in the door. I studied the video, and realized it was just a headlight of a car reflecting on part of the building outside. I believed it was fogen, too.

      Watch the video again, and let me know if you come to the same conclusion.

      • pat deadder says:

        Thanks tonydphotog Well I went back and watched 3 times.In the beginning I thought the guy was crazy but it tells where to see him.I see him plainly.It took me a long time.Apparently someone took a screen shot it is quite obvious once you see him,He peeks around the corner then backs out of sight quickly.This happens more than once and he has something in his hand.Please tell me this case hasn’t driven me crazy. I read the comments and others could see it before me.His reflection is on the right hand side of the door.

      • I saw the video and it’s him. He moves so quickly but I took a screen shot and caught him. That’s Zimmerman’s old ugly face peeking in the door. He moves quickly b/c he knows the camera is there. But too late. I saw him!

      • tonydphotog says:

        Pat deadder – The part I believe I see a flash of light in the video is at 22:33. Is that the same place you’re looking, or am I looking at the wrong part of the video?

    • You’ll see the image appear at the 22.33 mark and quickly disappear.

      • tonydphotog says:

        When I watch the video full screen, it’s difficult to see much detail because of the video quality. I’m not ruling out that it may be fogen, I just can’t see it.

        At 20:46 – 20:52, you can see a light reflecting in the same area.

        • I see a head quickly appear and disappear. He just bearly peeks in a disappear. I have the screen shot. I wish I could post it here. Wait a minute. Doesn’t this blog have html? Maybe I can try posting the screen shot and see if it works?

      • Tzar says:

        yeah that’s him IMO
        bald head and red jacked showed in analysis

      • aussie says:

        @@ Southern Girl

        put the screenshot into
        and post the link for that

  26. ay2z says:

    I was wrong, Mark NeJame has been busy making videos about this case, he just published them here in last 5 or 6 days days..

    Wonder if he’s still pro-defense?

    • KA says:

      I listened to it. It looks like it was from a report over a month/6 weeks ago, so it doesn’t talk about recent developments.

  27. Rachael says:

    I am SO glad I live on the west coast – because I won’t have to wait tomorrow. Things will be just starting as soon as I wake up.

  28. Trained Observer says:

    Has a pool started yet on how many we’ll hear DENIED from JN tomorrow?

    • racerrodig says:

      Does Judge Nelson saying Denied more than once on the same Motion count as 1 or how many times the word Denied is said. That’s gonna make a hell of a difference. What if she says “For the final time” because she’s said that before.

      I just wan the rules straight.

      With that I set the over / under at 15.

      • Rachael says:

        This could turn into a drinking game – ‘cept I don’t drink but…

        • racerrodig says:

          i don’t drink either, but listening to any of the Fogen tales has a tendency to make one’s head spin.

          • cielo62 says:

            Racer and Rachael- “denied!” Take a shot! “Denied!” Take a chaser! Heck by mid motions everybody will be wasted!

            Sent from my iPod

      • Trained Observer says:

        Definitely, I think we’ll be drowning in glorious DENIEDS! And with luck the initiation of a gag order.

        • racerrodig says:

          “Definitely, I think we’ll be drowning in glorious DENIEDS! And with luck the initiation of a gag order.”

          I believe I’ll quote Moron O’ Mara and say “…I think it’s…..undisputed…”

  29. KA says:

    This is what Justice for Trayvon will be up against….I call this “everyday racism”.

    • Rachael says:

      I saw that when it was on TV. I watched my son grow up with it.


      • KA says:

        It scares the crap out of me. I have Latino and Asian children, but am in process for adoption of a preteen boy that is AA. Remarkably intelligent (won his science fair a few weeks ago), the best sense of manners I have ever seen on a preteen, talented in many areas, and just a delight to spend time with. I fear none of those wonderful attributes he has in spades will be noticed at first impression.

        I have had some issues with my Hispanic child and perception, but I think it may be even worse with my new AA son in an area that is predominantly white. I think when our house value goes up in the next year, we may move to a more diverse area.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Yep … I don’t believe the white geeze when he says color of the kid didn’t matter. I do however think the white actor was a little more convincing that he wasn’t a bike thief than was the black actor. But then that was my perception, perhaps more everyday racism in play. 😦

      • Rachael says:

        I do believe he believes he believes that though.

        What was interesting was the black lady. She didn’t say she didn’t call the police because if he were black she wouldn’t want the first thing for someone to think is that he was doing something bad. She too said that she was not as inclined to think a white kid would be up to “no good.”

        I don’t deny that everyday racism exists, my question is how do we get rid of it?

      • KA says:

        The comments on the clip are as bad.

      • KA says:

        If you notice what they said, the language was almost exactly the same as well as the clothes, tools, situation, etc

        It is crazy to see the such stark contrast in response. The video was posted to show O’Mara quite new what he was doing and what senses and “quiet” reservations people have ingrained.

  30. HLN is doing a program on the Zimmerman tapes and Trayvon Martin case now.

    • Lynn says:

      I’m watching and I am glad the police tapes are getting to the general public. Every time I re-watch them I see and hear something new that is incriminating.

    • ay2z says:

      Mark O’Mara on video posted now on dated posted today but it must be from the day of the release last week.

      O’Mara said ‘it is discoverable’, therefore they HAD to disclose it to the state, and that’s what they did. Ok, they had to disclose it to the state? The state already had it, so MOM says.

      He’s slick, isn’t he. Nothing sticks.

      • KA says:

        This is the exact reason I want to see if it is from the cell phone. If they are wrongly attributed (to Trayvon) photos and video from Treehouse worshipers, then what is the “Discovery”?

        • Xena says:


          This is the exact reason I want to see if it is from the cell phone. If they are wrongly attributed (to Trayvon) photos and video from Treehouse worshipers, then what is the “Discovery”?

          The October 19th hearing answers that. At that hearing, O’Mara said that the victim’s family closed his social media accounts. He stated that he received print-outs sent to his office from the web, and had no way to verify them. That is why he was asking the court to issue the subpoena duces tecums to Facebook and Twitter. He had the print-outs in court, and also said that he had a “MMA” video.

          Then he stated that there was an alternative if the family had saved what was on those social media accounts and provide them to the defense. Evidently, when O’Mara deposed Sybrina and Tracy, they had not saved anything from Trayvon’s social media. So, this is O’Mara’s way of retaliating.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Yeah, OM’s an oily kinda slick.

  31. disappointed says:

    Quick question. I thought on May 24,2012 the prosecutor had GZ,DeeDee and Trayvon’s phone records sealed? Am I wrong? Is this bad if they were sealed and he released info?

    • diary73 says:

      I believe they only sealed the phone records of GZ. But I thought that electronic communication was protected and not subject to the sunshine law. Someone clarify this for me, please.

      • ay2z says:

        I think Prof has this in one of the recent articles. Defense asked for the raw data from Trayvon’s phone and got that, it was not released in discovery, but then the defense did their thing to get the photos and texts, videos recovered for their own use, and they could apparently release those files.

        (I don’t know if the last bit was attrib’d to Prof, but I’m pretty sure you can find the notion that the defense asked for raw data and that’s what they were given, and can’t blame the state for this or associated delays).

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Actually, the defense seemed to think they’d get the work product and were given the raw data, which sent them whining to Judge Nelson as I recall. Didn’t she tell the defense they had to get their own experts / software, etc. ad infinitum?

  32. ay2z says:

    Frye hearing set for June 6 and 7, Thurs and Fri before trial.

    This is from WFTV today along with their legal analyst’s comment.

    WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer does not expect the defense to get its requested six-week delay, but does expect Zimmerman’s lawyers to win some of its battles in court Tuesday.

  33. crazy1946 says:

    How many folks remember the old saying “the best defense is a good offense”? After reading all of the posts here today and the ones from the last several days on this blog, I can only conclude that the actions of MOM, while disgusting, are in some ways brilliant! If he can manage to make a group as large as this (most of whom are strong supports of justice) disagree as much as we are seeing, just think how well this type of tactic could have on a jury of only six people… MOM is not only trying this case in the media, he is learning how to try the case in the court room based on our collective reaction to his approach! Does anyone actually expect any less from a man who had dedicated his life for many years as a divorce lawyer?

    • I don’t believe there is any genius in this at all. I suspect he’s really in for a rude awakening. In truth, the truth will come out whether it results in a conviction or not. This will result in a moral conviction with regards to how people will treat M’OM in his long term future as well as how GZ will be treated in prison by his cell mates. There is no one to bully there.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Well, we can disagree on this too.GZLC is stirring the pot, to be sure, but while it stirs it up supporters on both sides, I don’t see it working too well for the defense or Fogen. Have we seen anything, anything at all that hasn’t bitten them in the butt so far.

      No, I thought not. Fogen has been given every chance in the universe, including an astounding sum of money and it hasn’t done squat. I’ll sit back and witness the next round of sore tushes.

    • cielo62 says:

      Crazy- nope. I’d say all the comments here are united in total disgust for MOM andWest. With 6 people, that disgust is more likely to crystallize into active dislike for the defense. No pluses here for the defense!

      Sent from my iPod

  34. Rachael says:

    In order to prepare for the hearing tomorrow:

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Thx, I haven’t watched this in years! Definitely a good way to prepare for the hearing!

  35. Rachael says:

    Can someone please explain to me how text messages on Martin’s phone reflecting angry exchanges with his friend indicate a propensity toward violence and “attacking” GZ? I am not making the connection.

    • boyd says:

      Jury eye roll

    • PYorck says:

      Every proper GZ supporter knows that angry black people are ticking time bombs and can go off at any moment.

      • ay2z says:

        Yes, remember the proof in the form of an tweet From The Desk of Angry Junior? It’s on the record, must be evidence by now.

      • racerrodig says:

        “Every proper GZ supporter knows that angry black people are ticking time bombs and can go off at any moment.”

        Imagine what Afro – Peruvians are like ?? !! ??

      • Malisha says:

        Besides, a GOOD Black person is one who is (a) never angry at anything; (b) never out after 6:00 p.m. without a note from an authority; (c) never unreasonable about being interrogated and always willing to meekly state their purpose for being on white man’s turf if that is where they are found; (d) never resentful if a family member who disobeyed any of the above requirements goes and gets himself killed by a decent American; and, perhaps most important, (e) always suitably ashamed if he has not met the standards set for him by any deranged Afro-Peruvian with a gun.

        Got that? Write it down to remember it.

    • ay2z says:

      That’s cause there ISN”T one.

    • texad says:

      It is VERY difficult to express real anger in a text message. I’ve tried. LOL. It always comes across as something else. It’s all smoke and mirrors anyway. And totally irrelevant.

      MOM and West have a special place in Hades reserved just for them. [See? That’s an angry text].

  36. Mary Davis says:

    @ Ladystclair. Please read my response to you up thread.

  37. Two sides to a story says:

    What many Fogen supporters and the general public forgets is that Fogen has a phone too . . . and a reason his records are sealed. Just wait until his texts are revealed . . . 😀

    • Rachael says:

      Yep – that’s what I said just above. His texts must really be something in order for the defense to be this desperate.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        HA – I didn’t see your remark at first until I worked backwards and commented up there . . . what goes up, must come down, spinnin’ wheel got to go round . . .

      • Rachael says:

        Well you know we are right. Heck, we don’t even need his GZ texts. We’ve all heard what he had to say about azzles getting away and effing oons as he’s running after Trayvon.

      • racerrodig says:

        I wonder if Moron O is so stupid he thinks because Trayvon’s phone records are irrelevant, he can get Fogens barred from being admitted as evidence ala that tit for tat thinking. Can he be so stupid he forgets his client is still the defendant ??

  38. Mary Davis says:

    Ok everyone. The damage has been done, but IMHO I think Omara and West has just screwed fogen. (I refuse to type his name with a capital letter). Everyone keep in mind that when you obstruct justice by tampering with a jury pool, this is not only unethical, but this is illegal, and it must be addressed.

    Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I think JN has a sacred duty to put a stop to this. How can officers of the court conduct themselves in such a manner. This is a slap in the face for our judicial system, and remember everyone is watching. What if a tainted jury fines fogen not guilty. Do you guys think that it’s just gonna stop there. (and I am not talking about rioting). Whatever the outcome, I’m sure JN doesn’t want any fingers pointing at her. JN has to assure that the victim as well as the defendant gets a fail trial.

    • boyd says:

      I doubt she does anything serious to MOM.. Martin is a poor DEAD kid. Had not for Al Sharpton this case would be buried. Money wins a lot more cases than it loses.

      I do think MOM conceded everything before the fight to the prosecuter to do this, that will prove to be bad.. .



    • Mary Davis says:

      @ boyd. Yes Trayvon may be a poor dead kid, but he was just a KID. Over two million people protested this murder, whites stood along side blacks. People are watching and commenting in other countries. If the jury is tainted and this is not a fair trial, a lot of people will be held accountable.

      • The prosecution asked for a gag order twice and it was denied. I blame the judges for this bs. IMO A gag order should have been in place a long time ago.

  39. ay2z says:

    Oh no! (snark warning ahead)

    The defense has to have a delay to investigate Dr. Reichs background and so on…. what are they really interested, photos and texts off his personal cell phone???

    Snark over…. quote below is in the latest clickorlando report which changes the ‘delay’ idea to ‘undermined’ because they need time to investigate a state witness. (one and same expert or someone else, don’t know yet).

    Zimmerman will be asking the judge to postpone the trial for an unspecified period, claiming his attorneys need more time to research one of the state’s witnesses.

    Dr. Alan Reich, a speech identification expert, believes screams heard on a 911 call are not Zimmerman shouting “help”, but rather Trayvon Martin yelling “stop”. The defense will argue they must investigate the legitimacy of Reich’s claims, as well as his abilities and background experience.

    source link (today, within the hour)

    • LLMPapa says:

      So Mr. Lawyer Manz wants a delay to look into an expert and his conclusions that were published OVER a year ago?

    • looneydoone says:

      re; the video clip; letter from Gladys Zimmermann
      The thumbnail photo (top row) of the blonde woman wearing a blue blouse (gz’s mother) is that of a woman named Ines Tell de Palleja. Ines married a Roberto (Rob) Zimmermann in Barcelona, Spain June 1975. Her photo, and Roberto’s (Rob) were taken down from ancestry sites familias-de-fajardo and telefonica in April, 2013

      Odd that that photo is used along with the 11 April 2013 letter from george’s mom ….wonder what that’s all about

      • ay2z says:

        So, Spanish, not Peruvian, Roberto not non-Spanish Robert Zimmerman. I’m confused, is this photo a sham used to prove some black ancestry therefore proves non-racist?

        Mark NeJame said a friend gave it to someone who gave it to him, or some version of this photo being passed along to his hands. He’s the one who published it to the media originally? Thereby adding his own credibility to the credibility of the photo and its information?

        I’m lost. Maybe I’ll find a NeJame interview that will explain it’s provenance and it’s authenticity as a fogen pedigree.

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @ay2z –

          Per US State Department documents:

          If RJ Sr. is GZ’s biological father, then GZ is 25% Cuban.

          RJ Sr’s father married the daughter of a Cuban diplomat who had been posted in Washington but then, by the time of the wedding in Ottawa, had gotten a promotion to 2nd-in-command at the Cuban Embassy in Canada. The wedding was held at the Embassy, not in a church. As I recall this was 1947.

          Because the mother was Cuban, that’s why RJSr. is known by the Hispanic “Roberto.” He’s half-Cuban.

          Roberto married Gladys, apparently while on Embassy duty himself, in Peru. Both boys were born in Peru.

          But there has been discussion that the boys’ biological parents are Gladys’s sister and the sister’s husband (that husband being of some Peruvian mix, the “mix” supposedly includes a black ancestor. And yes, African slaves were shipped to Peru to work on the ranches.)

          Gladys and her sister were descended at least 50% from European Spaniards – although from an ancient province in northeastern Spain whose residents are fiercely independent. (They are not happy being termed “Spaniards.”)

          The discussion continued that the boys were adopted by their aunt and uncle, Roberto and Gladys, and later brought to the US.

          Gladys gets a bad rap for how she treated young George. But the household included her Cuban mother-in-law, her two daughters, and the two boys – who may have come to her by default, and who had a different system of discipline before they were adopted – if in fact they were adopted.

          Gladys worked full time as an administrator for the Courts in Virginia. George says he was “raised’ by his grandmother, whom he adored. And grandmothers often spoil their grandchildren, and consider they can do no wrong. Does not usually result in firm rules, accountability, or discipline.

          At the very least, Gladys was carrying a heavy workload, and was stressed.

          And at the very least, George is more than 50% Hispanic genetically, whether he was adopted or not. His nose and eyes are distinctly highland Peruvian native (Huanca – one of the Quechuan tribes).

          The Quechuan facial features are what convince me GZ is adopted. I see no African features in either GZ or his brother.

          I think that’s “genetics by/for convenience” – only because George Zimmerman killed an African-American youth and wants to claim he’s not prejudiced.

          That’s a crock..

      • Malisha says:

        You know, they used to say, “Every child knows his mother but a wise child knows his father.” Now they have to change that to: “Some children know their mother but Fogen has no idea how he got to be Afro-Peruvian.”

  40. PYorck says:

    Is it just me or has the recent press coverage been relatively negative for the defense? Sure, they got some of their talking points in, but that numerous lawyers attack the defense in mainstream media is new.

  41. renosweeney says:

    OK… so what’s the most efficient/effective way to get our concerns out to others.

    I have been frustrated by the lack of outrage in the news reporting on this. Nearly all the print/internet news pieces have reported the release of this information as merely something that happens in the course of a trial.

    I BELIEVE in vigorous defense. I actually see defense lawyers, when they behave ethically as the true heros of the justice system. That they take on cases that few other’s would, because its EASY to point fingers and judge Defending the accused and preserving their right’s to due process is the foundation of our justice system.

    I say that to point out that I’m not part of that typical “Defense Lawyers are the Devil” meme that persists out there.

    But what O’Mara/West is doing goes WAY beyond that. The WHOLE legal community should be speaking out against this.

  42. ay2z says:

    Video on this page, lawyer Holly Hughes agrees, it’s victim bashing, intent to prejudice a jury, and not going to come in.

    • Rachael says:

      Can’t wait to see GZ’s last texts before as well as his texts after. They must be doozies for the defense to be this desperate.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        They’ll be singing a different tune when Fogen’s texts are aired in court. 😀

        • racerrodig says:

          Phone records ~ text messages and I know for a fact the state has a few items we don’t know about that he can’t even try to answer for. He’s beyond toast…….we’re in Sun Burnt Territory on this one.

          This is why the character assassination is in full tilt boogie mode. Wait till trial Fogen……Howe many days ?? 13 or so ??

      • Rachael says:


      • kllypyn says:

        I don’t understand teen speak but he talks about weed alot. boy a guess we better go round up all the teens in the country. and shoot them while they beg for their life.

        • Shari says:

          I mentioned before I was in HS in the 90’s. I was never interested in weed or smoking but it was pretty common among all my peers. Generally the white kids used bongs/joints, the black kids rolled the weed in a cigar/blunt. It’s an AMERICAN thing. Trayvon wasn’t brought to Florida from another planet. Where did he get the idea to smoke it? Where did he get it from? Where did THEY get it from? GZ drank and I would bet any amount of money that he has used weed/other drugs (there’s a pic of him high and HE talks about fighting on his social media), especially knowing he is prescribed adderall.

          This is deplorable conduct on the part of the defense. I assumed they would at least try the case as if GZ was truly regretful of his actions, as if he had no other option but to shoot to save his own life. What they are doing is PROVING that GZ racially profiled and stalked his victim.

          I don’t understand this idea of wanting a perfect victim. I guarantee you if you take the jury and go through their homes, computers, phones, or credit reports you will find many embarrassing things. I would hate to think that I become a target because I don’t live up to some impossible standard.

  43. ay2z says:

    New York Daily News has the story posted now, titled:

    Lawyers for man accused of killing Trayvon Martin plan to use teen’s last texts against him

    • cielo62 says:

      Ay2z – good luck with that! It’s still irrelevant.

      Sent from my iPod

    • Soulcatcher says:


      In regards to the the Nejame video above to where he claims a family member gave him that picture. Is there any proof this picture is GZ’s grandfather, grrandmother, ect. I can give you some old photo’s and claim the are my family as well. And if there is proof they are indeed his family, is there documented proof they are of the AA heritage they state, as in birth certificates, ect. If you read my post about the Susan Guillary Phelps case, she claimed to be white, and when her birth certificate was obtained, it showed her to be colored. She said it was an error and faught it for years in court. The traced her roots back generations to a slave Marguerite. The courts denied her request to alter her birth certificate, stating she would have to prove her parents were not colored, you cannot change history.
      The picture of his so called family do not reflect the AA race IMO, not saying the aren’t, but I would need to see proof they are. As we have seem lately regarding pictures, you can claim anything, but that does no negate the truth, altered, fraud, ect.

      I’m sure O’mara understands the importance of providing true evidence, and the ramifications if one where to provide the false information, lets say maybe to taint the jury pool.

  44. Nef05 says:

    We knew this was coming. We knew it as soon as O’Mara announced the “all day evidentiary hearing”. I figured it was going to be the MD-SPD crackhouse stuff (which he did include “redacted” in a supplemental discovery filed with the motion(s)), since there was no way to know O’Mara was trolling the internet for pictures as well as legal strategy, but the principles outlined in the post are the same. Even the professor’s thoughtful response to that post hits the same points of irrelevancy and inadmissibility that he’s expounded on, in these last few articles.

    How could BDLR really not have seen this coming? We know he’s watching the crackhouse. Did he have no options? Given this “can’t unring the bell” situation, it appears his only remedy is going before the judge to mitigate whatever he can, AFTER everyone has chewed this over for a four day weekend and people are back at work and unlikely to even hear about it, in any way that can compare?

    Forgive me guys, I’m just a little frustrated at the damned unfairness of it all, at what appears to be either a lack of foresight or an underestimation of the lack of ethics and integrity of O’Mara/West by the prosecution, and the possibility that this whole thing may have been preventable(?). I do not advocate violence in any form, but I’d be hard-pressed to restrain myself should I happen to find myself in the presence of O’Mara or West, with a handy iron skillet or wearing a pair of stiletto high heels, right about now.

    Questions – What are the chances that Judge Nelson would grant such a hearing? Can BDLR’s response go to not having the hearing itself, without giving O’Mara the opportunity to flourish this nonsense to the camera (in camera perhaps), before it’s deemed irrelevant? Wouldn’t this be a defense *reverse witness 9* play? Can O’Mara schedule a hearing on “evidence” that has not been sent to the prosecution previously? If not, I expect O’Mara to submit a supp. discovery .doc, immediately prior to the motion, in a “tit for tat” dig at the prosecution for all their “discovery violations”.

    O’Mara has certainly answered any questions I “may” have had. He is “definitely” THAT far gone! I hope he and West are disbarred and arrested!

  45. ay2z says:

    Does anyone have a link to Jeff Deen’s discussion about this? Last week, there was a title, but no content on one of the stations, probably, but can’t see it there now.

    Stange how quiet Mark O’Mara’s collegues are now, when last year they were regularly commenting on the case, and about how good O’Mara was going to be.

    NeJame, legal analyst for one of the stations remains strangly silent now. Maybe he’s an advisor to O’Mara or wants nothing to do with critiquing the case.

    • ay2z says:

      Wasn’t likely clickorlando, article quote of their legal analyst Luis Caoldreon, who does not criticize the defense tactic with respect to the rules of procedure or ethics or evidence, nor affect on jurors. It’s more effective potentially, than just muddying waters (JMHO)

      Local 6 legal analyst Luis Calderon says the pictures and texts could help the defense build its case.

      “Basically what they want to establish is that this person has violent tendencies,” Calderon said. “I think maybe the defense is just trying to muddy the water with this.”

      There are also text messages from Martin’s phone talking about marijuana and hiding it during a bus ride to Orlando.

      “I think throwing in the marijuana and the firearm I think they’re just trying to portray him in a poor light,” said Calderon.

      source for quote-

    • ay2z says:

      WESH report — where is the defense going with the girlfriend ‘anger’ issues, paralleling to the anger issues, restraining orders from the manhandling and mouth slapping allegedly done by the defendant, with an expression “what does THAT feel like?’

      The tit for tat defense.

      Except that Trayvon and Dee Dee never got into a physical abuse accusations altrecation, like the defendant and his girlfriend Suazu did.

    • elcymoo says:

      It’s unclear at this point if the evidence will be admissible in court.

      Jeff Deen, a former assistant state attorney in Florida and the head of a state agency that represents criminal defendants, told NBC News that strict rules having to do with character evidence will likely make Martin’s texts and photos inadmissible at trial.

      “What does his mom saying he needs to live with his dad for a while say about why he was shot? Nothing,” he said. “Generally, reputation evidence is not admissible in court.”


      • ay2z says:

        Thanks, elcymoo.

        Last year, O’Mara collegue/friend and legal analyst for media, Mark Nejame, had this to say. He wasn’t giving a balanced report, but arguing can’t be racist.

        So does this prove anything? Suggests he should not, perhaps, but is not? Maybe not for children to a certain age, but after that, ‘they’ morph into ‘F’N’ punks, coons, googs.

        Does NeJame have some evidence to back up the mentoring black children quietly claim? Or is he taking O’Mara and fogen family pressers as source for that?

        NeJame is quiet lately– when will he resurface for his buddy O’Mara?

      • ay2z says:

        oops, sorry for duplicate video link. Don’t need to see that lawyer double times for sure!!

  46. ay2z says:

    O’Mara about his releases this week,

    “That is PROPER to do that.” {MOM supplied emphasis]

    “We are allowed to present our case to the court of public opinion. We are allowed to do that.”

    And the jury, after exposure to his latest set of ‘evidence’ he believes, needs to be protected by sequestering all 500 at call up and until jury is selected. Sort of the old barn door, horse is out, analogy.

    • Rachael says:

      From your article: “but he says the Zimmerman case has attracted an unusual amount of publicity.”


      • ay2z says:

        He blatantly says “I get that.”

        Yeah. He could win, why should any lawyer have to follow rules of the judiciary system? And that leads to why should jurors have to follow any rules either?

        Why not take a facebook poll to see who is popular and then vote on guilt, innocence and immunity too?

        (snark alert)

      • ay2z says:

        Circular logic right back to, why should a neighborhood watch captain have to follow any rules of the neighborhood watch when he can stop the “F’n” children (by any other fogen explative) from getting away.

    • cielo62 says:

      ay2z~ there no way Judge Nelson will order the sequestration of that many people. Unless MOM wants to pay for it out of his own pocket. IIRC Florida is still hurting financially since the housing collapse and economy crash.

  47. ay2z says:

    The hannity fiasco may pay off for the defense, even with the contracdictions and god’s plan thing, the jurors will have a ‘living room chat’ impression of the killer and they could easily excuse things, from nervousness or whatever, and not consider the professional production and editing of the Q and A’s and tactics that give the impression of a question asked, was answered, when it was not.

    Familiarity with client, familiarity with the tv salesperson…. aka tv lawyer personality.

  48. elcymoo says:

    Professor, what about those texts and/or e-mails of GZ’s that were sealed at O’Mara’s request early on because they would be so prejudicial to a right to a fair trial? Does that mean that the prosecution can’t demand that they be unsealed at trial, or is the defense team secure in believing that social media can only be used against the defendant’s victim?

    • Malisha says:

      When the jury is seated and this evidence BDLR talks about that Corey mentioned that we have not seen yet is revealed, and O’Mara objects, and he is overruled,

      it. will. not. be. a. good. day. for. Fogen.

      Even his own lawyers are not defending HIM. They are creating a storm that will ultimately enhance THEIR marketability in a sewer, but it has done nothing to really defend the person they represent. Quite the opposite. All chances Fogen had were based on his being able to show some measure either of genuine mental illness or, although it would have been difficult, throwing off the “self-defense” crap as ballast and trying to show that the killing itself was accidental and unintended and that he just got overwhelmed. But his defense team was handicapped by its own fantasies. My my my, how ironic — that’s what happened to their client!

    • Jun says:

      I think sealed simply means it is not released before the trial under sunshine

      It’s gonna show up at trial so it’s all good in the end

      Trayvon’s texts, could have been texted by anyone using that phone at the time and they seem rather mild compared to how Omara is trying to twist them

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Trayvon’s texts read quite a bit different to me. GZLC is spinning them in the most negative context they possibly can.

  49. ay2z says:

    Front pockets?

    • pat deadder says:

      ay2z I’m still thinking about the flashlight interview you noticed.So not only did he not include it in the reenactment.Why didn’t he use it as a weapon during his fly swatting.God what a liar.

  50. RastaGirl says:

    Sooooo, the crazy thing about all this is, we Dk who’s hand is holding the gun, no proof. The smoke he was blowing, no proof it’s Marijuana smoke

  51. boyd says:

    does anyone Know where the State keeps evidence?

    I thought it was at FDLE, but MOM seems to beleive it’s locked in BDLR’s cabinet.

    • cielo62 says:

      boyd~ Good one!

    • I seriously doubt that BDLR keeps evidence in his office because that would reduce security and make him a potential witness to establishing the chain of custody.

      Every police department, including the FDLE is supposed to maintain a safe and secure evidence unit on site where all of the evidence in each case is stored until the case is over. The only people who are authorized to enter the secured area behind the front counter where evidence is logged in and logged out are the people who work in the unit.

      If a prosecutor wants to look at one or more exhibits, she presents her request at the front desk of the evidence unit and one of their employees will retrieve and place them on a large table in a conference room.

      After the prosecutor is finished, she notifies the person on duty at the front desk, whoarranges to have the exhibits returned to their proper locations in the evidence unit.

      The complete transaction is recorded in the log book for future reference. This is necessary in order to document the chain of custody.

      Although I have never dealt with the FDLE, I would be very surprised if their procedure varies in any significant manner from the procedure that I have described.

      • cielo62 says:

        Mason blue- ah, I believe Boyd was being sarcastic. MOM really seems to think that BDLR can just whip out all the evidence he wants on demand. Hence we have MOM yet again claiming the prosecution is hiding evidence (Brady material no less) because Bernie has “such” complete control of the evidence. But you know, I could be wrong. I took it as farcical.

        Sent from my iPod

      • Two sides to a story says:

        That’s just more drama for the paying supporters. He has them whipped into a frenzy about now.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Ha, Cielo.

        racer – I bet they have a trickle going on even if they’re behind. The supporters have been posting the donation link quite a bit.

        • racerrodig says:

          Remember back in Jan. Moron O stated they needed to raise a minimum of 35K a month. They’re down to 30 $ a day at this point.

  52. Judy75201 says:

    Maybe O’Mara is trying to create a situation where an unbiased jury literally cannot be seated, so fogen literally cannot be tried, because that is literally the only way fogen will escape prison.

    Maybe O’Mara wants to set that precedent.

    Maybe O’Mara needs his license revoked.

    • boyd says:

      MOM assumes he biased the jury in Fogen’s favor. I think he mis-calculated.

      He’s all but given up on george’s story up to the fight. It’s all on the kid hiding to attack george.

      In all my years of writing logic for patterns in hardware and finance. I don;t see a pattern proving MOM could be right.
      (look, he’s staged fights for video, a picutre of a gun and pot plant and maybe he sent texts to his GF, EQUALS it means he hid waiting to attack Fogen) preposterpus.

      But the pattern easily fits Zimmerman. “oh shit he’s running”, He’s followed people in the past. He’s been violent in the past.

    • ay2z says:

      That’s always been a question in my mind, about what would happen if they can’t get a jury, but if they can’t, they have the option to widen the scope a little, add another 500 to the summons list and try again.

      I am not sure the defense wants that, they want to pick jurors who feel a repoire with the defense lawyers (ie seen enough video reports and heard O’Mara to make a connection with him over the state lawyers because they have not been out in public every week on tv to become that familiar.

      If fogen is acquitted of murder or the option of manslaughter, then MOM will go for the SYG/Self-defense hearing.

      His plan, it seems might be to get the self-defense arument in with the support of the jury who acquetted him, by retroactively getting a decision as to immunity.

      And then fogen himself might decide he needs some better higher priced fancy lawyers, to go after the state for wrongful arrest.

      Or sumpthin’.

      • Jun says:

        it does not work like that. The immunity hearing is a pre trial hearing. It’s over and done with once trial starts. It’s been waived. Both appellate and supreme court agree that it is a pre trial hearing. All Omara can try at this point is am affirmative defense. Omara has to present some evidence, and what he says is not considered evidence, in order to get a self defense instruction. Omara could also just as easily get a jury that wants to give Fogen the death penalty.

    • racerrodig says:

      “Maybe O’Mara needs his license revoked.”

      Bar or Drivers ?? I say both since he can’t be trusted to do anything lawfully. Make his ass walk.

    • Jun says:

      Omara’s hide and seek story is fucking stupid

      The judge and jury after Omara says that in the opening statement will hear how Fogen targeted, stalked and chased Trayvon, an unarmed kid, Fogen did with a gun and a car, and that Trayvon is running away from Fogen

      Lights will go off that even if they were to believe Omara’s dumb ass bullshit, they will see a reason why the kid had to hide, in Omara’s story, because Fogen was “coon” hunting

  53. boyd says:

    the Judge needs to narrow the scope of the “evidence” text messages and photos from December from the victim?

    I think that officer Singleton hit the nail right on the head. she questioned George about getting out of the car. after he said “oh sheet, he’s running” it seems that was the action that set this killing in motion. We need to know why Fogen was agitated about the kid running when he told NEN he was doing nothing wrong,

    and I’m not going to find it in 2011 photos and text messages.

  54. pat deadder says:

    I don’t understand why these two low lifes would risk being disbarred to do this.Have they been promised a lot of money,have their lives been threatened . It’s hard to believe they are both this sleazy although they have demonstrated dirty tactics before. This is beyond the imagination.That fogen family needs to be held accountable as well.I understand defending a loved one but their tactics gives credence to the saying The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.We can only hope JN does something tomorrow to put a stop to this charade although west and omara know the cats out of the bag and they accomplished their goal.My Mother always said water seeks it’s own level.I just think fogen sr must have something on omara.Sorry I just can’t wrap my head around this .

    • PYorck says:

      Whatever O’Mara had in mind when he took the case, I am pretty sure it wasn’t this. So far the defense has been a trainwreck. Perhaps this is O’Mara’s perverse idea of making the best of it for himself. With a normal defense he probably wouldn’t have a chance. If his mudslinging rampage is successful, then he will hit the jackpot. If it isn’t, then he can at least hope for a reputation as the lawyer who unleashed hell for his client and could only be defeated by a horrible conspiracy.

      • cielo62 says:

        PYork~ Prior to making the horrible mistake of taking this case, MOM was a divorce lawyer. The sleaze and mudslinging is natural for him. The thing is, in CRIMINAL trials it won’t work. I hope MOM never gets another decent case for as long as he lives.

    • bettykath says:

      It’s possible that MOM thought the defendant was not guilty when he took the case and the charges were only b/c of the publicity. Now that he’s in it, he has found that SYG doesn’t work and most likely self-defense won’t fly. In a panic, he has to rely on getting a hung jury which is likely only if he can pollute enough of the jury pool.

    • Rachael says:

      He’s under the influence of outhouse refuse.

    • ay2z says:

      Donald West, looks like this one is for YOU!

    • Malisha says:

      Wow, I thought Fogen was guilty because he chased Trayvon down and killed him and lied about it. But then I saw a video of Trayvon reaching into his pocket for money to pay for the stuff at 7-11 and all that changed. Wow. Fogen was right to kill that kid; he swayed!

      How dare the State charge somebody for a crime when the victim swayed at the counter only minutes before? I WANT JUSTICE: disbar Corey and throw her in jail forever!

      [snark] 😈 🙄 :mrgreen:

    • DruDo says:

      One of my sons carries money in his pockets frequently. I’ve seen him reach into one pocket, then another, for money and every time he leans slightly first one way, then another. That looks like what Trayvon was doing. It’s never occurred to me to call that swaying. Seems O’M and West are doing the swaying.

  55. Michael says:

    Question –
    first I am and Australian looking on in disbelief
    If something (pics txt msg) is ruled out but subsequently found to be OK does that make grounds for a miss-trial?

    If so surely it is better to let the jury see them and say “hope you are enjoying you time ‘cos this is wasting your time as it is irrelevant”

    Could work against the defense if the jury see it as time wasting

    Bigger picture
    Is it possible that the system is broken. If he gets off will there be changes to law to make sure you do not end up in the same situation again.

    Occurs to me that the only way that a jury can be impartial is if murders are blacked out from news reports after the initial reporting of it until the jury trial.

    Jury will never heard about it or name of victim or defendant.

    Surely if someone kills someone else they should automatically go to trial to let a jury decide the right or wrong of it.

    Facts and analysis brought before jury and decision made.

    the ironic thing is this web site in contaminating peoples thoughts as much as any other BUT it is not alone. you cannot have one side being silent but not the other.

    As an outsider it appears that stories like this make a lot of airtime money for networks and make them a lot of money.

    Makes me think the system is corrupt and/or broken

    • bettykath says:

      The amount of information made public, that is, the content of the discovery material, is a Florida law. AFAIK, it is the only state that has that requirement. In other states, the discover materials only go to the attorneys, not the public nor the press (except for unauthorized leaks).

  56. LeaNder says:

    More basic statement, the people in the Florida Court of Appeals will notice these activities too. I wonder when their decision is due, or are there no specific times in which they need to decide?

    They did a fast job concerning judge Lester.

    Time to return to my duties.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      We can hope that this decision has been slower because not only are they looking at the defense’s allegations closely – they’re also looking at defense BEHAVIOR closely.

  57. Jun says:

    Obviously impartial jurors should be found but Omara’s trek to find prejudiced jurors and play to racist idiots and his smear campaign, can just as easily be found with jurors who will not side with Omara and also become disgusted with Omara and Fogen

    You got to realize that both Fogen and Omara and West have screwed a lot of people and show no moral standard whatsoever so there could be just as many people who will vote against Omara and West no matter what they say or release

    A simple google search to look at all the facts will show that Omara is full of shit and so is Fogen’s gang members

    Joonyah’s videos on youtube get the most thumbs down in the history of youtube, including his Piers Morgan appearances

    Fogen and Omara can ill afford to not prove their case because the jurors and the judge could just as easily see it as a motive for them to lie and slander to simply try and get away with murder

    People can also see that the Fogen gang trolls are full of shit too

    it’s a two way street

    The only thing about it is it is really annoying to hear about Stutz and Fogen doing the Jerry Springer thing

    I personally do not feel Fogen should be let go unpunished as he has been given way too many opportunities

  58. ladystclaire says:

    Professor, I will be sending you a donation soon.

    • Soulcatcher says:

      I have one also, if someone could email me, I think I know not what to do. I don’t give my banking info over the internet. I went and bought a pre-paid card, a green dot card that says Pay pal, and was told I could use the card in place of a credit card. I have never used a card like this, and maybe this won’t work?

      • boyd says:

        I do that as well green dot, pre-paid. I do make purchaes via internet but only at work. I like the firewall protection of a big company.

        green dot only works if the seller has green dot. last time I used it.

      • cielo62 says:

        Soulcatcher~ You can always pay as a guest on Paypal. Your information is safe. I’ve used Paypal for over 10 years with no problems or stolen info. The PayPal GreenDot has all the instructions for using it. OR you could buy a Vanilla Visa card and pay as a guest! There are many options where your personal info doesn’t get online. 🙂  (PS I use them in order to avoid an overdraft fee from my bank)

    • MichelleO says:

      Please do! He most certainly deserves it. He has been doing an outstanding job. I’m sure we will all never forget him for his courage and intellect.

  59. Soulcatcher says:


    It’s because we find it unbelievable that there are people who stand by George who believes it was Gods will and he has no regrets. It’s hard to understand thatwe live in a world where there are those who still believe the whiter the righter. Those would be the same people who want us to believe this is not about race. How ironic is it that the majority of people who are African Americans, who he claims roots to, and La Raza, Hispanics and Latinos, do not stand by him, in fact many don’t want or except him in their race. And the white race whom he makes such a big deal that he does not identify his race with, are his biggest supporters, and that is a small percentage of the white race, which includes those on other blogs that we are aware of. Why is that, if race is not a factor.

    We are angry, frustrated, hurt, emtional, because we except all people in our hearts, regardless of color. We stand together as one, as friends, bothers, sisters, family, wives, husbands. Their is no black and white, how we look at others comes within. It’s because of that, we stand beside Trayvon and his family, we feal there sorrow, their son could have been our son. There is no explanation anyone could give us that would reason why someone would choose to stand by a man who has no regrets of killing a teen, and say it was God’s will. Only those with no soul.

    • MichelleO says:

      I firmly believe that Fogen is going to prison for a very long time. They can dig up all of the stuff they want on Trayvon. The fact of the matter is that the kid was doing nothing when the murderer first spied him, and was still doing nothing once he encountered the boy again. In all actuality, the boy was simply minding his business and talking on a cell phone like most people in modern society do.

      Once the jury get’s a gander at Fogen’s past unlawful behavior (fighting with cops, beating up women, kicking lap dogs in the stomach), it will be curtains for his ass. Everything he has done in his life points to a loose-cannon and an accident waiting to happen. He has been coddled his entire life and now the jig is most definitely up!

      • kllypyn says:

        i guess trayvon being a teenager with their usual flaws.teens get into minor trouble. sometimes and a lot of them smoke and might have wanted a gun.this is.supposed to prove self defense? even supporters have done the same silliness..

        Trayvon never beat up on a woman. never threw anyone across a room. the rare schoolyard fight means nothing. he apparently wasn’t very good at it.

  60. pat deadder says:

    To Professor Leatherman Thank you for your honor and courage

  61. Jun says:

    I think this is how Fogen’s gang has acted since the beginning, especially if you look at Fogen’s history

    It seems to be clockwork for them to act in this manner

    Look what happened to his cousin, whom Fogen molested and attempted to rape… the Fogen gang used the same blame the victim strategy and call the victim a liar strategy

    Look what happened with the cops… same blame the victim, the cops, strategy and calling cops liars strategy

    Personally, the state of Florida needs to just throw the book at them

    For some reason I picture Omara in a prison suit as I think he may actually be going to prison after trial

    It’s the only problem with the jury system because people can pull crap like what Omara is trying

    Anyways, still does not prove anything and Omara cant unring a lot of bells about Fogen either

    • pat deadder says:

      June remember in one of the pretrials Omara stood there and said they had found DeeDee and it was 16 year old girl who had nothing to do with the case and tcth doxed her.

  62. dianetrotter says:

    Could the prosecution ask for a change of venue (? terminology) and move to another city or a neighboring state?

    • The prosecution can ask for a change of venue, but Judge Nelson cannot grant the motion unless the defendant joins in the motion.

    • PiranhaMom says:

      @dianetrotter –

      Re: “Perhaps GZ explained that he got on top to restrain Trayvon so he could justify being on top to onlookers.”

      You are 1,0005 correct, Diane.


      It’s Zimmerman’s first cover-up action.

      He knew he had been seen.

  63. silk says:

    I get the feeling that BDLR has some hard core evidence on the defense , that has not been made public. Omara knows , and then again he dosent. So he spins. He has no choice but to lie. Let’s face it, that’s sundance boy. What’s up with (shel-lie) and taking the 5th? . It appears that some of the photo are indeed fake! , like his broken nose was Fake! Omara is a straight clown, from day 1. I still beleave that theirs evidence that we don’t know , that will infact convict zimmerman! Zimmerman is actually shitting on himself right now!. He is a coward. And I would love to see once he’s down the penitentiary, shellie leaves him.

    • ladystclaire says:

      Sorry to say that I don’t believe she will leave him because, who the hell else would want her. the defense stopped her deposition while the prosecution was questioning her, then they come back into the room and tell Bernie/John Guy that, she was not on the witness list which she was.

      Now, does the state make sure they have sanctions leveled on them for interfering with their depo of ShelLie?

      I still believe that there is an eye witness who saw this whole thing from beginning to end and, who ever it is, won’t be revealed until trial. then there is always the possibility that, between Jon, Jeremy and the snarky W11 one of them has turned states evidence.

      Also, the boy in the fight video as well as the one flipping his middle finger for the camera, IS NOT TRAYVON! Judge Nelson should have placed a gag order on the defense, when the prosecution filed a motion for one.

      • Soulcatcher says:

        I can’t imagine standing by my husband after learning he molested his cousin and a good probability of at least on other, maybe another family member. I hope her reponse to him after learning this is not how proud she is of him….cutie……

      • rnewton32 says:

        I agree. She will not leave him. I mentioned before in another post that there are some females (I won’t use the term women) that are so low and evil and disgusting that they will lay down and share a bed with a child molester (even if the victim is there own flesh and blood child). She’ll put her sick deviant needs before anyone else, except Fogen. She has that written all over her face. Real men can identify this type of monster miles away. No man would want to be in the same room with this sick b***h. She is a liar and a creep. I hope she suffers the same fate as Fogen.

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      BdlR has some hard core evidence that is known by the public. 5 eyewitnesses saw GZ on top at the time of the shooting or seconds after the shooting. I am just copy/pasting a comment I left at the Daily Kos to make that point. i was shocked when even a couple of hard core GZ defenders thought the evidence to be compelling.

      No change of position between the gunshot and GZ getting up. That is a fact. GZ was on top when the shot was fired. That is w18 and w12

      Witness 5 and 16 were walking towards the sliding glass door, when they heard the shot. They were outside seconds after they heard the shot.

      This is GZ’s story. After he shot Trayvon, Trayvon sat up and said “you got me”. Trayvon then conveniently pivoted 90 degrees and fell to the ground. GZ wiggled from under, holstered his gun, then he got on top of Trayvon spreading his hands to the side. According to GZ that is when w13 showed up with his flashlight and GZ begged him to help restrain Trayvon.

      Mary and Selma were outside within seconds of the shot, and they found GZ on top of Trayvon. Jon arrived as GZ was already up, walking towards the T and talking on the phone in a call that has never been mentioned by GZ.

      W1 maybe even more convincing, since she didn’t realize that what she was looking at was GZ on top of Trayvon. She was in the kitchen facing the dogwalk, when she heard the shot and immediately looked out the window. She was looking outside at about the same time as Mary and Selma.

      18:20 Batchelor: Did you go back to the window and look again?
      18:22 W1: Yes.
      18:24 Batchelor: Immediately after you heard the shot?
      18:27 W1: As soon as I heard the shot I went back and looked. And…
      18:32 Batchelor: What did you see?
      18:35 W1: I saw the body!
      18:39 Batchelor: Did you see anybody else?
      18:41 W1: I can’t remember seeing anybody else. At this time the light was on so you could see.
      18:49 Batchelor: A light was on?
      18:51 W1: There was a light on in the back. From what I remember, a light was on at the time. It wasn’t on before.
      19:04 Batchelor: What happened next?
      19:06 W1: Then I went upstairs. I told my sister, “I think somebody’s shot outside.”
      19:14 Batchelor: And the body as you’re describing it, that you saw immediately after the gunshot, how was it positioned?
      19:25 W1: Um. It looked like… I’m trying to remember… It looked like it wasn’t straight down. But it was down and it looked like the legs was like this. Sort of like in a running position. But it was like this.
      19:54 Batchelor: Are you describing a face down position or a face up position.
      20:00 W1: Face down.
      20:07 Batchelor: And you only seen, as you are describing, the body.
      20:12 W1: Right.
      20:14 Batchelor: Noone else at that point?
      20:17 W1: Noone.
      20:19 Batchelor: Do you know what the body, or the person, was wearing?
      20:27 W1: I remember a jacket, and sweat pants, and black sneakers.
      20:35 Batchelor: Do you remember colors of the sweat pants or the jacket?
      20:40 W1: Um. I think the sweat pants was gray and the jacket was a reddish color. Wasn’t bright red. But it was in the red family, I guess. Red kinda pinkish, maroonish kind of looking color.
      21:18 Batchelor: And who are you describing the clothing for?
      21:22 W1: It was the body. That’s the only… I didn’t see a second person. The only other person I saw was the cop.

      She looked outside immediately after she heard the shot. She only sees one person and assumes it is the body, but the body is kind of off the ground and wearing GZ’s clothes. She was watching the same event as Selma and Mary.

      So, I went out and get to my porch. And I saw this, it was a guy laying on the floor. It was dark. So I see another one on top of him. And can I tell you how?He was, I mean, I just can see this part, because my house is on that side, facing to where the dogs’ can is. So he was like, up on his legs on the… making compression. I mean, because you can tell when somebody is just like this, I’ll make compression. His body it was on the other person.

      I am quite sure that is the reason Austin only saw the back of one person wearing a red top, prior to the shot. The other person was hidden by the person on top of him.

      • boyd says:

        yes, and add to that the statement that led to this. “oh shit he’s running” A kid running agitated George to that level. When asked by NEN what’s he doing? NOTHING Geore said.

      • dianetrotter says:

        Unabogie, Trayvon was right-handed I believe and holding the phone with his right hand. The tatoo was on the opposite arm which would be the “left!”

      • dianetrotter says:

        Perhaps GZ explained that he got on top to restrain Trayvon so he could justify being on top to onlookers. Also, Witness 18 said that they were about 4 feet from the sidewalk and she, at no time, saw them near the sidewalk.

      • amsterdam1234 says:


        Selma talked to him, and he talked to her, of course he knew he had to make up a story to explain how he got on top. Selma and Mary heard what they called the whining sound, when they were in their kitchen which faces the dogwalk. The sliding glass door is next to the kitchen. They started walking towards the sliding glass door, before they heard the shot. They were outside in seconds after the shot.

        W1 who lives next to Selma and Mary, was also in her kitchen when she heard the shot. These witnesses independent from each other confirm that GZ was on top seconds after he shot Trayvon.

        Forget the fact that his story is rediculous, it is also not possible.

        W1’s statement that she only saw one person, helps to explain why Austin only saw one person. Austin saw that person before the shot was fired and Austin said the person was wearing a red top.

  64. kllypyn says:

    Gangsta a term all teenage boys around the world call themselves. In some countrys there is no word for gangsta in their kanguage so they use the english version of it. why listen to rap music and you’ll see why.

    Pictures of weed plants. hardly earth shattering.trayvon smoked weed which is well known so what a lot of kidS try weed it hardly justfies murder. i’ve seen those exact same pictures back in october 2011 when i was looking up info about weed on the net.

    Fighting,Trayvon mentioned fighting. which he apparently was on the losing end of because if he were the victor he would HAVE bragged about it.that’s what teenage boys do because they like to seem tough. in one fight he said he was on the bottom and couldn’t do anything in round 0ne.He doesn’t mention what happened in those other rounds which most likely means he didn’t do too well.No teenage boy wants to admit to his friends he got his but kicked more than once. he mentions another fight he got into after shool he says nothing else about it which most likely means he got his but kicked there too. getting into a couple of fights doen’t mean you are aggressive. half the teenagers in the world get into fights they are simply defending themselves against the other half who like to start trouble. I know i did and i was usually on the losing nend of it. Trayvon has no history of aggressive behavior against other people unlike a certain murder suspect

    guns,so trayvon put a picture of a gun on his phone so what.he mentions wanting to get a gun. I dont see the problem in a gun obsessed country like ours where people buy guns for 5 year olds or 10 year olds and where people teach 12 year olds to shoot to kill rather than disable. Zimmerpunk can practice his 2nd amendment rights but trayvon can’t. Given the murder rate in this country if trayvon was scared enough he thought about getting a gun i don’t fault him for it.Ironic considering what happened to him. Trayvon never got a gun. althopugh if he had one i doubt he would have had the heart to shoot anyone.

    Hiding his weed. he said he hid his weed because he was going to be in the orlando area for a few days just before he went to sanford.He obviously didnt want his mother to find his stash.If all this stuff is supposed to prove self defense Zimmerpunk might as well try for a plea deal.

    A KID SMOKING WEED DOESN’T JUSTIFY HIS MURDER. A KID WHO ONCE THOUGHT ABOUT GETTING A GUN DOESN’T JUSTFY HIS MURDER. A KID WHO GOT INTO 2 FIGHTS WHICH HE MAY HAVE LOST DOESN’T JUSTIFY HIS MURDER.A KID WHO HID HIS STASH BEFORE GOING TO SANFORD DOESN’T JUSTIFY HIS MURDER.BTW nearly 96,000,000 adults in this country smoke weed.76% of them are white 11 % are black 9 % are hispanic 2% are asian and 2% are people of other ethnic groups.

    The fact they continue to try to trash a murdered kid who did nothing to deserve a bullet in his chest,shows they have nothing. Zimmerman knows he never screamed for help. So do his lawyers. Zimmerman knows he has lied about everything that night except killing trayvon and his name. So does his lawyers. Zimmerman know he had control of trayvon by holding onto his shirts keeping him from escaping when he killed him. So does his lawyers. Zimmerman knows Trayvon never touched him so does his lawyers.

    Trayvon simply tried to avoid zimmerman. Thats why he ran. whe Zimmerman found him,Trayvon asked a simple question “what are you following me for”. why didn’t he identify himself? Why didn’t he tell trayvon the police were on their way.Instead he tried to hold him against his will for ther police. Trayvon who had no clue about this guys intentions resisted which he had every right to do.Zimer interrogated AND TERRORIZED TRAYVON BEFORE LOSING IT AND KILLING HIM. Trayvon made no effort to hit Zimmerman at all he simply tried to escape. He should have left trayvon alone. He was just a scared kid. No 17 year old boy deserve to go to his death screaming and crying. He was literally crying.Nothing but exstream fear would make a 17 year old boy cry like that,and Zimmerpunk knows it.

    • Rachael says:

      Yeppers. My son was all about being gangsta when he was a teen. Of course because of where we lived, all of his friends were these blue-eyed towheads all dressed, talking and acting gangsta and everyone thought that was cute, but my son, being biracial, was a thug. smh

      • kllypyn says:

        Right now i’m so angry my heart rate is at 100beats a minute. three doctors say my heart is in perfect health but they recommend i stop following this case. i don’t know what to do. i’ve been having this problem since 2-5-2013. trayvon’s 18th birthday. i get very emotional about this kid i’m not sure why.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        kllypyn – Justice is coming Trayvon’s way. Do some fun things and relax!

    • boyd says:

      The videos of what I saw I do not define as fighting. That was choreography combat.

      if he had vidoes of his boys mugging unsuspecting people than I would be very alarmed. I’m not surprised or worried about kids using their cell phone technology to produce their own MMA TV productions.

      I do not see or read anything out of the ordinary. However I do find “oh shit he’s running” to be a rather strange agitated state for someone to be in when he said earlier he’s doing NOTHING.

      • Rachael says:

        You should see how my brother and sister used to fight when they were kids!

      • KA says:

        MMA “sparring” is common. My youth minister son “sparred” with his friends and kids from the youth group. He also “sparred” in Jujitsu class in a similar way. My son has never been in a real fight his entire life.

        It is “sparring” not fighting. This is truly stupid.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        It’s a male tradition around the world. These days a few girls participate too. Not my kinda sport, but to each his own.

    • Malisha says:

      I’m not saying Trayvon Martin was angry and I’m not saying he longed for a gun. But I will venture the assertion that if I were a Black 17-year-old I would be angry and I would want a gun.


      Because a 17-year-old Black kid has to face a world in which a person like Fogen can just kill you and get away with it. And only if those folks who love you mount a protest of more than 2 million people world-wide will anything be done about it. That’s why. I’d be angry. And even if I were just a regular WHITE 17-year-old who had a normal life I would, at this point in our country’s history and with the ordinary knowledge of public events, be angry. I’d be angry and perhaps even want a gun and WHY? Because some psycho could follow me and grab me in the dark one night and take me somewhere to rape, torture and kill me. Turn on the TV: The LE heroes only catch the guy after he has killed the first 14 teen-agers. I think if I were any kind of a 17-year-old American by now, if I had studied or read ANY history and ANY news for the last ten years, if I were normal, I’d be angry and I’d want a gun.

      Still, I’m not saying Trayvon was angry (seemed so mellow and laid back) or that he wanted a gun (who knows? My kid did). And none of that makes any difference at all. The night he was killed, Trayvon was SCARED and had NO GUN.

  65. Rachael says:

    Here is another lawyer who feels this is outragous. Debbie Hines. I follow her and enjoy her blog because she speaks to issues of my heart, this being one of them.

    • KA says:

      I am a huge fan of Debbie Hines as well. I have followed for the past year and a half or so.

    • ay2z says:

      Thanks, Rachael, a quote from your link.

      In the final analysis on both sides of this case, it must be about the night of February 26, 2012. Whether the defendant is a good person or the victim is made out to be a bad person, all that matters is what happened on that fateful night over a year ago. If the evidence speaks to the events on the night of February 26, then justice will prevail.

  66. My Forehead Tho says:

    How likely is it that they will be disbarred from the practice of law? I wouldn’t think both O’Mara and West would risk their careers for Zimmerman. While the release of this new ‘evidence’ (if you want to call it that) is unethical, i’m not sure if it’s unlawful.

    • Rachael says:

      It doesn’t have to be illegal. There is a code of ethics they are supposed to follow and they can be disbarred for ethics violations.

    • Malisha says:

      They won’t be disbarred or punished in any way — my opinion. I have seen lawyers get away with crimes you wouldn’t even believe. Lee fell; Wonfinger fell; but they didn’t fall far. You can bet that after this is all over, the folks raking in money will keep raking in money and they will keep distributing it for criminal purposes too. But I predict Fogen will do heavy hard time. He doesn’t realize how insignificant he really is. Nobody was really defending him, EVER. His wife was defending her tenuous hold on a “living”; his family was defending THEIR “family name and reputation”; his father was defending HIS honor; the SPD were defending THEIR rotten, disgusting racist ethic; his merry band of co-racists were defending THEIR rights to be loud-mouth ignorant assholes; the gun lobby was defending THEIR right to bully everybody else into paralysis if not submission.

      NOBODY EVER DEFENDED FOGEN and nobody ever will.

  67. Judy75201 says:

    Fred says, “We should soon see an effort by the defense through one of its proxies to inform the jury panel that jurors have a right to vote their conscience in disregard of the evidence and the instructions (i.e., jury nullification).”

    You and I will always disagree on this matter. The vote of “conscience” works both ways, because “reasonable doubt” all too often is smoke & mirrors. So-called “reasonable doubt” is what got OJ and Casey off. It’s entirely too powerful. So, a jury should be able to scoff at it and bring a verdict of guilty.

    Don’t hurt me!

    • diary73 says:

      Bigotry is much stronger, unfortunately. I don’t know of any emotion that is stronger than bigoted hatred. And this very tactic is spoken about quite a bit among GZ supporters.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I would disagree with the OJ analysis. The state failed to prove their case and there was some corruption going on with the officer who testified – can’t recall the name, but Prof L addressed that in a comments thread. So that wasn’t a case of the jury disregarding the evidence. I didn’t follow the Anthony case but it sounds as if the state didn’t have enough conclusive evidence to convict her either. As long as there’s reasonable doubt, a jury isn’t likely to take the chance of convicting. I think the system probably worked the way it should have in both cases.

      • Judy75201 says:

        When you take the totality of the evidence and circumstance and “coincidence”, and understand how statistically overwhelming it is, there was no reason for either jury to acquit, except for… reasonable doubt.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        I agree with you on the Anthony case. The State just didn’t have enough for murder 1.
        OJ’s case was badly bungled, and even though I am thoroughly convinced that OJ was guilty, the process to get him convicted was corrupted.

        This case however has overwhelming evidence, and a competent prosecution team. GZ will not be acquited. The best they can hope for is a hung jury.

        • racerrodig says:

          And don’t forget, Anthony & OJ both said I didn’t do it. Fogen said “I aimed and fired on shot……hell I thought I missed him so I jumped on him”

          Then he proceeds to concoct elaborate contradictory stories up the wazoo,

          Despite all in OJ & CA, their stories stayed reasonably straight.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Yes, racer. Fogen has always said in his own words that he profiled, pursued, and killed Trayvon Martin. Between his words and the evidence, he’s unlikely to walk.

        • racerrodig says:

          NEN call = motive

          I have a gun = means

          “…that’s following..” = Opportunity

          Looks like all the bases are covered.

  68. Tzar says:

    today the opposite of justice can only be injustice
    I hope the state and Nelson have realized that the bait has been taken by MOM/West and they have overstepped their bounds
    time to stop acting like neutered puppies and slam the book on them

  69. KA says:

    I do not believe the photos came from Trayvon’s phone.

    1) If the fighting video came from his phone and he was in it, who was filming it and why would they not do that on their own phone?

    2) LLMPapa masterfully brought out the tattoo on the wrong arm with the middle finger pose. How did that come from his phone?

    3) Some of those pictures were in the media long ago and now suddenly they showed up on his phone?

    I call bullcrap. There is no way that “evidence” came off of his phone.

    • KA says:

      If they did not come off the phone, why release now? It surely would not be in line with “discovery”.

      • Unabogie says:

        I agree with you that the provenance is completely suspect and if they don’t have actual photos off his phone or released photos they couldn’t verify, they are truly scum.

        *One thing to note, a lot of people take “selfies” by standing in front of a mirror. If you did that, a tattoo on your right arm would photograph as being on your left.

      • diary73 says:

        Unabogie, I do not think that is the case. I took a self pic of myself through the mirror, and my badge is still on the left side. The words are backward, but the side of my body has not changed.

      • Rachael says:

        Does a picture of a teenager flipping a bird equate with violent tendencies?

      • Rachael says:

        ^ being sarcastic.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        If the photo was taken in the mirror, you would see the person holding the camera.

      • Malisha says:

        Unabogie, the idea that the picture with “two middle fingers up” was a “selfie” taken in front of a mirror is clever but doesn’t work. If those are Trayvon’s two hands, then the camera is somewhere other than in Trayvon’s hand or hands; then there must be a camera in the mirror image photo (either on a tripod or being held by someone else) and there is no camera in the photo. Reflected light must be captured in order to produce a photograph. Only if a camera were carefully airbrushed or photoshopped OUT of this photograph could that be a “selfie in a mirror” shot.

        • cielo62 says:

          Malisha~ NO, NO ,No, NO! THIS is Trayvon of the Eight Arms! The “smothering, hitting in the face, hands roaming over the chest” 8 armed Black Dynamite Slim! OF COURSE he can take a picture of 2 of his arms while using the otehr arms to align the picture! Silly Malisha…

      • dianetrotter says:

        Unabogie, Trayvon was right-handed I believe and holding the phone with his right hand. The tatoo was on the opposite arm which would be the “left!”

    • Two sides to a story says:

      It’s possible it came off his phone, transferred to his Facebook. I think, not sure, that sometimes photos will come out reversed. I also think there are programs in which you can pop in a digital photo file and out will come the information like the phone it was taken on, date, time, etc.

      • Arewethereyet? says:

        When you took the picture of yourself in the mirror, could you see the phone in the picture?

      • Cercando Luce says:

        It’s a webcam photo– he had a few of them– and who cares? I hope the defense downloaded a photo Trayvon took of an enraged looking Fogen waving his gun that they now are hoping and praying hasn’t been noticed by the prosecution.

    • Rachael says:

      The fight one someone else could have taken and sent to him I guess.

    • racerrodig says:

      The fighting video was posted last year by someone on youtube or such and some Zidiot claimed it was Trayvon fightin g. O’ Mara has simply grabbed it, claimed it was from Trayvon’s phone and ran with it. Just like the flipping the bird pic. O’ Mara will be smoked in court if he tries to use them.

      He already prepped us with he may not use them. He won’t, Bernie will bomb him back to the stone age with that move.

      O’ Mara doesn’t even know left from right.

      • unabogie says:

        If that’s true O’Mara is toast.

        • racerrodig says:

          It’s true as is the bird flipping pic. It’s proven that it’s not Trayvon.

          Toast……burnt badly.

      • Jun says:

        I honestly feel Omara is gonna go to prison after this trial

        I do not know why I get that feeling LOL

        That fight club video is way too blurry and grainy and unauthentic to be used at all

        Perhaps Omara is used to Moot Court

        • racerrodig says:

          Had a BBQ yesterday with some of my Fed guys there for a spell. I believe something may be brewing O’ Mara will be very unhappy with. I can only hope. I brought up the possibility of the bloodstained garage door post also. I have been saying the prosecution has a lot more than we see……Hmmmmmm that was the response I got yesterday. Phone records, random blood stains, what else lurks.

          O’ Mara also has Trayvon’s texts “rearranged” specifically to make them look worse. I doubt he’ll use them at all or at least the way he has them now. I think he may not be able to get a job cleaning cesspools after this.

      • cielo62 says:

        racer~ Nope. MOM doesn’t know left from right, nor right from wrong.

        • racerrodig says:

          I can see this now. Fogen takes the stand “Please raise your right hand and be sworn. You’re other right hand”

      • Rachael says:

        You mean doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground.

        • racerrodig says:

          Did I say that…..yep and I’m damn glad I did. O’ Mara is so stupid, and I believe he is, he couldn’t pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel.

      • Rachael says:

        Whether to scratch his watch or wind his ass

        • racerrodig says:

          “Whether to scratch his watch or wind his ass” Good one !!

          For the record however, Fogen’s ass was wound up, that’s why he’s in the boat he’s in.

          O’ Mara…..he’s next.

    • elcymoo says:

      KA says:
      May 26, 2013 at 8:49 pm
      I do not believe the photos came from Trayvon’s phone.

      1) If the fighting video came from his phone and he was in it, who was filming it and why would they not do that on their own phone?

      2) LLMPapa masterfully brought out the tattoo on the wrong arm with the middle finger pose. How did that come from his phone?

      3) Some of those pictures were in the media long ago and now suddenly they showed up on his phone?

      I call bullcrap. There is no way that “evidence” came off of his phone.

      I believe that MOM said that the texts and pictures came from Trayvon’s phone ‘and other sources’. We knew that TM’s social media sites were hacked last year, and photoshpped pictures made their way around the Net. The prosecution team should be able to identify what items came from the cell phone. MOM and West should be forced to explain to Judge Nelson, for the record, the origins of any other material.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        It says photo’s of Trayvon Martin and from his phone.
        Does anyone have a link to the images on the web?
        They created pdf’s with the photos incorporated. So they masked the exif data.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        Trayvon’s brother stated a year ago that Trayvon was not on that video.
        I am so angry. I didn’t think they could get much lower than making genuine information available, but if this is doctored aor not showing what it says it shows, that is a whole new level .

        Tomorrow’s hearing is going to be explosive. I hope Bernie is in his Shakespearian mood and tears O’Mara and West a new one.

      • KA says:

        If they came from other “sources”, when were they obtained?

        MOM is just “innocently” following “discovery” rules (as he and supporters claim) or he is making a blatant attempt to deceive.

        He was saying they came off the phone…if he is deceiving in that then BLDR should and will be able to nail him tomorrow.

        • racerrodig says:

          And remember O’ Moron stated there was information that Trayvon transported a sizable amount of pot to Sanford. “ is known…” was the term. Well once again please name that source ….

      • amsterdam1234 says:


        That kapo at the Sentinel got me so angry. Actually all of the media does. They are all breathlessly reporting on it, without taking the trouble if the spin accompanying the release, is correct.

  70. Trained Observer says:

    Simply don’t see how Tuesday’s hearing can unfold without Judge Nelson bringing down one hellacious hammer on this egregious Defense team behavior.

    O’Mara and West jailed ought to be jailed for contempt– but not, of course, until after the June 10th trial and Fogen has been shuffled off to Raiford or whatever alternative pen he’s assigned. Eventually, I’d like to see O’Mara and West disbarred.

    At the very least, JN needs to issue a gag order and make it clear to these creeps that failure to respect her order will bring on even bigger trouble after trial. I hope she does it with a frost quotient that lets even a dunce like Fogen understand his lawyers have really fucked up..

  71. Two sides to a story says:

    I have a little postscript thought. Fogen family and supporters decry the media representation of him.

    By now, seems like the deal is even steven, Theyv’e had over a year to wail on Trayvon and present their thug pictures and narratives, with their grand finale (I hope) these past few days.

    Now, can we just proceed to trial with the admissable facts, Jack?

    • What possible falsehoods about GZ were expressed as fact? What vilification did he receive that wasn’t true? When didn’t he receive the benefit of the doubt? I have to say the opposite is true.

      Look at the claim where they say he didn’t say “coon” Frank Taffe says he said “cold”, his alleged friend says he said “goon”, GZ claims he said “punks”… everything around the word coon but not the word coon. They literally tell us don’t trust your lying ears. How can you possibly have more benefit of the doubt than that?

      How about him running after TM? It is so painfully obvious but the benefit of the doubt goes to the man that was only out of his car 11 seconds and says “I lost this kid” “I don’t know where this kid is at” “tell the officers to call me and I will tell them where I’m at” instead of telling them where he is at right now. Yet it took him 4 minutes only to find him even further away from his vehicle?

      I’m convinced the social media would’ve been all over the bloody hand print, the club house videos, dee dee’s deposition and how did she know about the mailboxes, the obviousness of GZ running and so on… if the roles were reversed on race. GZ has had so much benefit of the doubt we are literally looking for video tape because we know these bigots wont take the word of experts unless its used to convict a black man.

      He is out of jail and gets to work on his defense despite committing perjury as well as hiding a means to escape? This man has been afforded everything someone who has been accused of murder with this much substantial evidence combined with dishonesty under oath should never get.

      I don’t know about this case, nothing in this world would surprise me with regards to its outcome. Honestly, we are working against a police department who is trying to cover up a murder of a child.

      Are we really supposed to believe they don’t have some sort of ace up their sleeve? I believe they do simply because they’re still in George Zimmerman’s corner. It’s kinduv like a boxing match where they keep sending their fighter in even though he’s almost comatose because they know the other side is going to take a fall in the 9th round or the ref is paid off.

      • racerrodig says:

        He said coon and anyone who argues is a Zidiot and I have no problem Standing My Ground on that.

        They don’t have anything up their sleeve. In fact, they’re just about naked with nowhere to hide anything. That’s why the unethical / illegal actions by the defense.

      • Nellie Nell says:

        I agree with racerrodig on this one! It is clearly obvious that the chips are stacked against the murderer so there is no defense.

      • DruDo says:

        He said coons. Period. No ifs, ands or buts about it. If it’s clearly shown in the trial that’s the word he used, that alone will sink his ship faster than he can blink. I just want to hear the chains clinking on his way out of the courtroom.

      • Malisha says:

        Hey you know what? If all this is about Fogen being railroaded by a bunch of government sissies who are afraid of the Black Mob, then guess what? Then it looks like the Black Mob is more POWERFUL than Fogen! Hey, how ’bout that? Hey Fogen: get over it. You got no power; you’re too white to have any power, Afro-damn-Peruvian! You are weak and cannot defend yourself; you’re being railroaded by a chicken government and a bossy Black Mob. HA HA HA HA HA HA HAAAAA!!!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Good thing no tea at the computer tonight, Malisha. 😀

    • Jun says:

      LOL you know what’s funny?

      100% of their media circus was from them including when they willfully went on TV to represent themselves

      Which means

      They made themselves look awful LMAO

      No one made joonyah or the Fogen gang tweet or leak any of their nonsensical crap

      They keep thinking it is not the year 2013 and there are so many advances in technology and knowledge, it is really hard to pull one over on ppl

      and how exactly did they want the media to represent a racist family and an adult male who stalked, chased, pursued, terrorized, threatened, and attacked an unarmed child, Fogen did this with a car and a gun, as the kid screamed and begged for his life and telling Fogen to stop, just the same as a rape victim telling their rapist to “stop”?

      What’s Fogen’s next move? Is he gonna sue the lady who called 911 and recorded the screams as she was fearful in her house to a kid screaming and pleading for his life?

      There’s not much PR you can do for the Fogen gang

      Even when ABC or NBC try to be nice to those idiots, they fuck up LMAO

  72. Unabogie says:

    Is everyone so sure that this evidence won’t be admissible? I’d like to separate the alleged behavior from Trayvon into two categories: the weed smoking, which is just silly- I sure smoked a lot of pot at his age and it never turned me into crazed attempted murderer as George alleges- and the gun. The picture of the gun seems to be different. I don’t see how the defense proves the provenance of that picture- whose hand is that? Was that taken at a shooting range? With adult supervision? Doesn’t Trayvon get to love guns as much as the gun nuts who support the defendant?

    On the other hand, if they have evidence that the victim carried around an illegal handgun, should that be allowed? I personally hate guns. My disgust with George is that he’s a paranoid gun nut who should not have been taking a loaded weapon with him “everywhere but work”. That’s insane! And it led to a senseless death. But that means I have to be consistent and say that 16 year old kids shouldn’t have unsupervised guns either. Again, I also fired weapons at that age with older friends and I never owned a gun, and if I had a smart phone then I’d obviously have taken a picture of my adventures. But I guess there’s a tension between the victim’s right to not be smeared in death vs. a defendant’s right to demonstrate that his self-defense claim should be believed because the victim was violent. I’d like to hear more arguments on this.

    I will note this, though.

    The double standard here is blistering hot. On the one hand, George was so into guns that he carried one everywhere he went. And the gun lovers have made him into a patron saint of 2nd amendment glory. He is a truly paranoid and disturbed creep who should never have been given a deadly weapon.

    But the defense released a single photo of a black hand holding a gun. And notice that no one on the other side thinks “self-defense against crime” or “God fearing NRA family”. Nope, black hand holding a gun = “dangerous thug”. And the assumption is so sub-conscious that people like Rene Stutzman immediately brand the photos as damaging. There’s that pernicious racism at play.

    Still, I’d like to hear why the gun photo won’t be allowed vs the weed photo which I don’t think will ever see the light of day as “Reefer Madness” is 80 years too late to get into a court of law.

    • KA says:

      I do not think the gun is relevant because he did not have one that night. He was completely unarmed (including the fact of he was going to confront GZ in the dark, he could have grabbed a stick, rock, grill tool, etc…he didn’t have ANY weapon. He didn’t even use the huge can of tea he had the bag)

      • KA says:

        of = “if”

      • Unabogie says:

        That’s pretty much my take as well, but I’m wondering if that’s the thing a jury should weigh and decide on their own. Pot = ridiculous and not relevant while weapons = closer call. I’d liken it to the Kobe Bryant case (not to derail) wherein usually you wouldn’t allow evidence of a previous sexual encounter into a rape case. But in her case, she’d had sex with two other males, one before and one after, so all of the evidence was tainted by this. And she lied about that fact to the police, which made it even more relevant. I’m not sure how that plays out here, since as I noted, I don’t see how the defense even proves it was Trayvon’s hand without a witness who was there. But if they have something like that? I don’t know.

      • Rachael says:

        Unabogie, I don’t mean to be rude here, but ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?

        Aside from the fact that there is no identification of the hand holding the gun, even if there was, O’Mara is supposedly a guns rights advocate. So why is he so upset that a kid with no criminal history or history of violence carries around a PICTURE of a gun in his phone when he is representing a creature with a criminal history and a long history of violence who carries a REAL gun around on his person?

      • Rachael says:

        And admittedly used it to kill the kid. Even if Trayvon was totally into guns, he didn’t have a gun on him that night. What happened that night is what is of consequence. Not a picture of a black hand holding a gun which could have been anyone and totally irrelevant.

      • Rob says:

        Is it just me unabogie sounds just like UNITRON

      • Trained Observer says:

        Uh, Unibogie, you are aware that the Bryant case involved a wrongful accusation of sexual assault where charges eventually were dropped. …. Uh, that’s as opposed to a murder case where a unamed kid got shot straight through the heart (that would be dead, you understand?), and there’s no doubt who the shooter was since he all but bragged about being the guy who did it. So what exactly are you “likening”?

      • unabogie says:

        Wow, this is the second time I’ve posted here only to be jumped on. I don’t think people actually read what I wrote. I don’t think Kobe was guilty. I think that was a false accusation. In that case the defense was allowed to present evidence that is often not admissible. I also specially called out the double standard placed on Trayvon regarding the gun.

        There’s no need to be rude unless you want this to be a place where we all just agree on everything and ask no questions.

        I’d like to talk about whether or not this will be admissible and if not, why not. Seriously, no need to attack me.

      • Rachael says:

        Then try this: It will not be admitted because it os IRRELEVANT.

      • ladystclaire says:

        Why do some people think that Trayvon is the person to whom that hand with a gun belongs to? this could have very well be down loaded just like the pots of weed. I do not and I will not believe that, Trayvon was the owner of either. what this defense has done to this child’s character in death is so UNFORGIVABLE and, these two attorneys should be ashamed to even show their faces out in public but, they are not.

        I hope and pray that this B*****D is slapped with a hate crime because, he will then stand a chance to receive a harsher sentence from a charge such as that, as opposed to the kind of sentence he would get from the state.

        This trial doesn’t need to be held in Florida and, I hope omara and west are both disbarred and, that would mean that his FORTY THOUSAND DOLLAR office upgrade was for naught. this is so sad to know that these two only care about winning this case and helping to set a murderer free.

        TRUTH AND JUSTICE MEANS NOTHING TO EITHER ONE OF THEM. a child is dead and, all these are actively taking part in the smear campaign against him. I hope every attorney disown the both of them because of this.

        Now would be a real good time, for those who have been lying and hiding the truth about what happened that night, to tell everything they know.

        • cielo62 says:

          Lady- alas, to many attorneys the goal is NOT truth and justice but WINNING. Winning at all costs. The DAs here in Houston could not care less about justice. They take controversial cases to make a reputation for themselves as being “tough on crime.” It doesn’t matter at all if the poor soul is actually innocent.

          Sent from my iPod

      • lurker says:

        I think that, in addition go the key issue of relevance, each of these pieces from the cell phone raise multiple issues of source, identity of person(s) portrayed, etc.

        In short, multiple diversions from what happened that night.

    • Judy75201 says:

      I say let it all in. Trayvon’s text messages disappointed the defense because they are so normal (see footnote 1 on West’s limine response filed on 5/23). Let them in, so fogen’s can be, as well, lol.

      • Rachael says:

        I’m inclined to agree. So far, none of this is any big deal. The defense is VERY wrong to try to make it a big deal. But I figure they are doing it only to build things up so that hopefully when GZ’s stuff gets out, people won’t see it as so bad either. Therefore, the texts and calls GZ has must really be something in order for the defense to act with this kind of desperation.

    • On the other hand, if they have evidence that the victim carried around an illegal handgun, should that be allowed?

      What does that have to do with what happened on Feb 26 2012? Trayvon didn’t have a weapon. End of story.

    • ay2z says:

      Applying one’s own logic to decide what is evidence or not, is NOT our role, it’s the role of the court, and only then can jurors, decide it’s value if any, it’s weight, if any. We don’t do what the jury subversives want, and apply our gut feelings and biases and experiences because we think what applies to us, applies to everyone else.

      But jurors upon hearing or seeing the gun and weed issues, can bring something to their decisions, not necessarily to demonize the victim, but they may almost unknowingly, give more weight to doubt to the defendant’s benefit, that would not otherwise be applied had the material not been released.

      So, some kids went to a gun show, and held a gun and took a photo, that imply violence and anger? What about youthful curiosity, or just hanging out with friends and a photo was taken, no matter who held it for the photo, it’s just a posed photo, that’s all.

    • Zia B. says:

      Wait. Am I in wonderland?


    • racerrodig says:

      They have adopted a “Picture of a gun is mightier then the actual gun” posture. That won’t work in court in any way, shape or form.

      • Jun says:



        What’s next? Using “Reefer Madness”, a movie everyone in the US watches for laughs, as part of their case?

        Oh yeah, they are already trying that LMAO

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      Those reports with the txt messages were collated in a deceptive manner. I printed them out and reonstructed some of the threads.
      Here are some of my conclusions.

      There is only one extensive exchange about an actual fight, and that is on the 2nd report.
      That specific report has sender/ receiver information blacked out, so you can’t tell if it is Trayvon telling about the fight or reading about the fight. The fact that the person who was in the fight also states he has been suspended for that fight, make it less likely it was Trayvon since there is no record of Trayvon ever being suspended for fighting.
      We also know from the messages why Trayvon transferred to another school. He was moving in with his father.
      We also know what the reason was for Sybrina to have Trayvon move in with his dad.

      My mom just told me I got to mov with my dad
      Da police caught me outta skool
      Lol really dude?
      So you just turning into a lil hoodlum
      No not at all

      I think if his friends think that Trayvon’s truancy is a first sign of becoming a hoodlum, he couldn’t have been much of a thug to begin with.
      Another example of what a thug Trayvon was. Here we get Sybrina txt with Trayvon.

      Sybrina: Pack up ur clothes now
      Sybrina: I know you read my txt.
      Trayvon: Yeah i was already doin it and i was tryna finish
      Sybrina: Ok and clean up ur rm and the living room. I love you but I think u being w/ ur Dad is best.
      Trayvon: Ok love u 2.

      Another thing I noticed is that he may have an interest in guns, but he appears to have a better realization about the dangers of guns than most gun nut cases, including GZ.
      There appears to be two conversations going about guns with two seperate people. One of them is DeeDee. It is a bit difficult to tell for sure which txt belong to which conversation, but in both conversations, he appears more concerned about gun safety aspect of owning a gun.

      Trayvon: U got heat??
      Trayvon: U got heat??
      Trayvon: O aigh
      Trayvon: Umhmm im tryna tell u
      Friend: wat
      Trayvon: Ntn b safe man

      Trayvon: -_- Bae bullets dnt hav eyes
      Trayvon: U got a gun??
      DeeDee: it my mommy but she buy for me
      Trayvon: She let you hold it??
      DeeDee: Yea
      Trayvon: But she keep it??
      DeeDee: Yea

      Here is another statement the tools of the Sentinel attributed to Trayvon but was not said by

      Trayvon: Wat make u 1??
      Friend: Duh way I fight nd duh golds I had last year.

      It looks as if Trayvon shared some of his tender feelings for DeeDee with his cousin, and his cousin relentlessly teases him with it.

      cousin: have fun talking to dat girl I hope y’all happy together
      Trayvon: fuck u cuz i neva text ha 2 day i made that shit up so u leave me df alone about it
      Cousin: Text me tha address again SHE HAS MY HEART(T)
      Trayvon: ….Retreat View Circle…. u bout 2 slide??
      Cousin: Ya I’m bout to come SHE HAS MY HEART(T)

      There is one message where Trayvon appears to be talking about being in a fight, but none of the other messages belonging to that thread are included, so the context is unclear.

      On report 8 messages are collated in such a way, that it appears as if Trayvon responds with an affirmative answer to the question if he wants a .22. But if I check report 1 and 4, it looks to me the yoo is unrelated to the thread.

      In fact there is no indication in these messages that Trayvon owned a gun or wanted one.

      There is one message where Trayvon talks about a murder in the news, I am getting the impression that the sudden flurry of them talking about guns was related to some outside event and they were talking about self-defense.

      • Jun says:

        To be honest, the texts regarding the “fight” are not even clear what the fuck they mean

        I do not see any texts about a fight

        The texts do not even have good grammar, which makes them even more confusing to decipher

        But hey, what do you expect from the Fogen gang?

        Next, they will say Trayvon got one answer wrong on a science test, so he must be going down the wrong path LOL

      • groans says:

        Wow! Lots of work and sleuthing! Thank you for your informed analysis.

    • LeaNder says:

      On the other hand, if they have evidence that the victim carried around an illegal handgun, should that be allowed?

      This is misleading, unabogie, since they obviously don’t have any evidence Trayvon carried an illegal gun. And to suggest it from one photo, they don’t have any information about, apart from a gun discussion with DeeDee, does not count as evidence. I seem to remember exchanges about DeeDee being allowed to hold it in her hand. So is it her hand, and how could that help your argument?

      So what is your point? I scanned the exchanges quickly. Nowhere did I notice he had the intention to get a gun himself. If there is something you read that way, I’d appreciate more precise source informations. Or am I to assume it is blacked out?

      If you want to discuss possible relevant points from the defense’s perspective, why not concentrate on the one fight?

      What do you think is the intention behind these images Especially the second? Is this supposed to be the image of a mixed martial arts fighter?

      • Unabogie says:

        Yeah, wow. I haven’t had time to look at all of the photos from O’Mara. That one you posted (I only see the first one on my computer) makes no sense to me. And look, let me clarify since it appears that I wasn’t clear before. I’m not saying that I find any of this convincing and it certainly doesn’t change my opinion of George’s guilt. But I would still like to have a *realistic* view of how Judge Nelson might rule. Even if *I* think this is irrelevant, and everyone else here agrees with me, I’m interested in what the *law* says is legally relevant, and why.

        • LeaNder says:

          Una, I basically regretted to have responded at all, even more since I only got to your comment and had no time to look at people’s reaction first.

          This is clearly a strategy to somehow plant doubt in people’s minds, especially jurors via the “thug images” which are quite old. Is it all the defense has?

          What is odd about the second image is the type of print they use, It may be pretty hard to trace it on the web due to the way it is published, were it feels it problably comes from. Looks like a saved web photo to me that is then inserted in a document anyway. Notice the necklace that Trayvon wore on some of the photos, e.g. the ones where he is riding a horse, seems to be similar. That’s the connection they try to create.

          It’s all about a web of allusions around GZ’s narrative. The gun is important since he claimed: I did not know, if he was armed or not. Which may already have been connected to his pseudo-exuse to the parents on O’Mara’s advise.

          One of the images supposedly of Trayvon, see LLMPapa’s video in this context, seems to suggest a preparation for a fight. At least I think that is how they want me to read it. Now if you do not find more evidence than this image, that it feels circulated quite early too, then you can of course try to create a chain of associations of some secondary imagery of someone close to him, like his cousin. Some type of guilt by association strategy.

          The problem I have with this is. If you have some type of martial arts training like Karate e.g. which is the only sport I did, post fencing, you may well be able to deal with such a situation, without bashing someone’s head against concrete. You have learned different tricks to keep someone on the ground.

          Which all leads back to the tonight you gonna die fiction, or the Serino question: What motive should Trayvon have to kill GZ?

          Oh, I see: I don’t know.

        • LeaNder says:

          Unabogie, I just realized the photo is related to this. Problem is, much censored.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Unabogie, Mr. Leatherman has some past articles about how this type of evidence will likely be handled and why it’s not particularly relevant to Trayvon’s death or to Fogen’s trial.
        At the moment it’s simply a deflection of public attention from Fogen to Trayvon.

    • Jun says:

      The black hand holding a gun photo defense sounds too fucking stupid LOL

      It could have been any Asian, Black, or Aborigine holding the gun for all we know and Trayvon took a photo of it, or, someone borrowed his cellphone to take a photo with it, or it is a downloaded photo and in the end it’s fucking pointless because all the kid had that night was Skittles, Ice Tea, a Cellphone with heart stickers, and $40

      The defense has gone beyond stupid if they think anyone is buying the “photo of what could be any black, asian, or aborigine person’s hand holding a gun or a bb gun” is more deadly than Fogen who “had a real gun, and was found armed to the teeth with knives and guns when he was arrested”

      So what’s next? Any owner of a gun magazine or blog, where they constantly show photos of guns in their publication, is allowed to be murdered by Fogen?

      SMH at the stupidity

      Watch, after all of the defense motions get denied on May 28th, Saturday Night Live will be making fun of Rene Stutz and the Fogen gang LOL

      • lurker says:

        Had to giggle at the image of Trayvon confronting Z’s real gun by pulling up the picture of a gun on his phone.

        Come on O’Mara, get real!

    • Trained Observer says:

      Unabogie — Apologies for earlier mistaking your name. Given your myopia, you may not have noticed. Other than that there’s no comparison or relevancy to the Bryant case, or on the gun. Period.

      • Unabogie says:

        Why the need for personal attacks for me simply asking a question? Do we have history somewhere else that I don’t know about?

    • Malisha says:

      I don’t know off-hand which logical fallacy this thinking represents but here’s how I would express it, if I were trying to explain this to students:

      I. We are looking for evidence of what happened on a certain day. We are not looking for evidence of what would have been good or bad on that day, or whether the two people involved in what happened were good or bad, or whether they had ever been naughty or noble BEFORE that day. We want to know what happened on that day.

      II. We are looking for only four facts here:

      A. Did Fogen voluntarily shoot a bullet into Trayvon’s heart?

      B. Did Fogen do that with malice or ill will and a depraved mind?

      C. Did Fogen have to do it because he was in reasonable fear for his life or physical safety at the time he fired the shot as a result of circumstances that he did not cause by the commission of any aggression against Trayvon?


      D. Did Trayvon Martin die from the shot Fogen fired into him?

      III. A and D have both been answered by Fogen’s admissions, the ballistics, and the autopsy report.

      IV. Question B is not affected by any reports of past “badness” of any sort or speculations about any future “badness” of any sort relating to Trayvon Martin. Fogen stated in several statements under oath that he did not know Trayvon Martin and had never seen him before that night. The reasons he gave for his suspicions were general and did not relate to anything he actually knew about Trayvon Martin. Not a single allegation he made against Trayvon Martin in the NEN call:

      “He’s up to no good”
      “He’s real suspicious”
      “He looks like he’s on drugs or somepin”
      “I don’t know what his thing is”
      “He’s comin’ to check me out”
      “Now he’s got his hand in his waistband”
      “He’s running”
      “These assholes, they always get away”
      “Shit…he ran”
      “Fucking punks”

      gave any indication that Trayvon Martin was engaged in a criminal activity OR a violent or threatening activity. So as to whether Fogen had ill will and malice — we find the evidence only in what he KNOWS and SAYS, not in anything that is outside his knowledge or non-apparent from the report he gives of his observation of the teen. ALL he knew of Trayvon Martin was that Trayvon Martin was walking along looking suspicious to FOGEN and that this got FOGEN very upset. Furthermore, in the police report that he WROTE that night, Fogen calls Trayvon Martin “the suspect” 16 times. So it is clear that the depravity and the malice were all on Fogen’s part. HE was suspicious so he projected “suspicious” onto his victim. HE had a “thing” for young Black teens so he said, “I don’t know what his thing is.” It is Fogen’s perversion that creates the conflict.

      V. Now there is only one issue left, and that is the issue of self-defense, which O’Mara and West have already tacitly admitted they cannot show. (Forget “prove”; they cannot even SHOW self-defense!) And now you come to the full peacock-tail display of lies, racist hatred-spewing propaganda, and delusional “charges” against the dead victim of Fogen’s psychologically impaired impotent (unless he has his sidearm) infantile rage: “HE HIT ME FIRST; he MUST have hit me first because he’s one a them terrifying nasty bad evil violent angry Blacks who are always victimizing poor me!”

      Since Fogen has no evidence that Trayvon attacked him (DNA and blood-spatter evidence in fact rule it out), O’Mara and West create a dog (really a hyena) and pony (really an ass) show of

      “savage, violent, brutal, unruly, angry, drugged-up Trayvon who really must have attacked our innocent, protective, noble, honest client.”

      They have no evidence to make this false portrait out of. So they make it out of smoke and mirrors. And for what purpose?

      THEY think it will give them a jury that will “nulllify” their client’s heinous crime by agreeing that the murder of a Black kid is OK because the Black kid was bad.

      They know that the State can prove murder. So they want a jury to say, “Hey American Law: Here’s our collective third finger. We DON’T care!”

      O’Mara and West have been working with false premises and they have been building a big structure on a fallacy. But there is a very BIG issue they have failed to work into their plan, and it is one that they cannot fathom. MOST jurors, even racist jurors, would not actually have SHOT and KILLED Trayvon Martin that night. If they’re lucky they might get two out of six people who really would have. Not many Americans in today’s America (even Florida) are so intensely hateful and enraged, and at the same time so psychologically crippled, that they would actually have gone where O’Mara directed people when he asked for their money early in the case: “If you would have done what George did…”

      The defense can only get outright jury nullification if they get six total Fogen clones. If they get only two, the normal people in the group will cause this to be a hung jury and there will be another trial and … another and … ad infinitum because

      People are not as simple as O’Mara imagines.

      • cielo62 says:

        Malisha~ as usual, an excellent explanation. The evidence is so overwhelming that even IF a racist were to sneak onto the jury, he’d convict gz on pure stupidity alone.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        Well done Malisha. I agree with every single word you wrote.

      • Jun says:


        I think if Omara got six racist jurors, they would not even look at the evidence and convict Fogen for being latino LOL

        The racists would say to themselves “we dont need these damn border hoppers gang banging up our clean white America”

        I know Fogen dreams of being white as his whole family claimed to be white on all identification until this case, but, a racist white person can tell a pure whitey or not

      • racerrodig says:

        Then only jury nullification of note is OJ and only because of Rodney King and the corruption of the LAPD in the investigation.

        OJ said……”….what, my ex – wife was murdered…..oh my God…I was on a plane to Chicago at the time, sorry, I can’t help ya there”

        FogenPhoole admitted he went out of his way to confront Trayvon.

      • LeaNder says:

        Great, Malisha. Well done, if I may add I liked Amsterdam’s close look at SMS matters too.

        Amsterdam something that drew my attention at the time is that Trayvon writes that he was falsely blamed, and I believe him.

        page 2 of the first 11 page document, 12/21/2011

        sent: dam I just got in trouble 4 some shit I aint even do…
        read: Wat?
        read: Ughh I hate wenn ppl b lyin.

        Followed by exchange with Sybrina

        14 daya later he alludes to the same story it seems:

        sent: cause I was watch a fight nd a teacher say I hit em

        Just finished to upload, which means I am prepared to see you tomorrow. Minor little toubles in the end, but I made it. 😉

        Sleezy arguments

        Should the State by argument or through a witness in any way suggest

        A**hole, you know quite well that the State is not going to do that.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Malisha rocks again. There ya go, unabogie.

    • boyd says:

      whose hand? whose gun? was he smoking marijuana?

      MOM cannot fight the NEN call and Police interviews. He’s given up. This is what he’s telling us. He wants you to beleive TM hid with intention to harm George because ………

      you can finsih the sentence.

      George wanted NEN to believe Trayvon was about to break into a house. George tolf police stpries about previous break ins when he was asked what happened that night.

      Over 1 year later, SYG is dropped and they want TM text messages and photos fro 2011 to explain George’s actions. “OH SHIT, HE’S RUNNING”

  73. diary73 says:

    This is the sort of thing that O’Mara has sought to place in the minds of people, and it is working in a widespread way. I feel sick:

    “IAM George Zimmerman: i think trayvons texts prove he was of a depraved mind with indifference to human life on 2-26-12. he admits knowing the person on bottom is defenseless, as he was on the bottom in a fight he lost. “i couldnt do nuttin he was on top” said trayvon. he was on top of george. george couldnt do anything, trayvon knew this, yet he still kept beating him without stopping, even when george surrendered and even when witnesses came out and yelled to stop.

    12 hours ago · Like · 2..

    Michael Green: On today’s episode of Deflection Daily, we will discuss the reasons that the fact that Trayvon was a regular violator of the law, a violent teen, a drug user, vandal and thief, and all the reasons why some people still want to see him vindicated. Is it because people like drug using, vandal, thieves with a penchant for violence? Is it because it’s okay to be those things as long as you aren’t peruvian too? Is it because pride won’t let them see the evil that they do in support of this behavior? Is it because of race or is it just because their pride won’t let them admit they’ve wasted their time defending someone that never was the little angel they were told he was? Find out this week on Deflection Daily, with your host NE1 with a firing frontal cortex.

    12 hours ago · Edited · Like · 4″

    • KA says:

      I swear GZ has 11 supporters with 500 different names. It is truly sickening.

    • Shari says:

      Okay this isn’t my website so it’s not my call but why even post that here? I don;t read comments on yahoo and youtube because I know what I will find.

    • kllypyn says:


      • diary73 says:

        Kelly, At the beginning of Carole and Michael Green’s Facebook page. The one that has the very same posters from the old GZLC Facebook page. These are his intimate supporters. George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Updates & Discussions.

    • diary73 says:

      They claimed to be neutral at first and invite all. But it is definitely a pro z page, Kelly. But this is the very group that came from the GZLG FB page.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I recognize many names there from the old GZLC FB page – the hard core regulars. There aren’t many T supporters – there’s one who posts daily and looks like he’s having fun ribbing them.There’s at least one regular missing who I’ve heard has defected, so there’s perhaps some hope for the rest! I take a look now and then to see what the reactions are to motions, etc.

  74. O’Mara and West are fast approaching 21st century Emmett Till. Someone need to shut them DOWN with a quickness.

    • Shari says:

      That’s what this is. The defenders of the killer say that Trayvon should have just answered to GZ. Taffee and Lee also said it, that Trayvon if he had lived would do things differently.

      • kllypyn says:

        Trayvon didn’t have to answer to some creepy guy he didn’t know..Zimmerpunk was not a police or security officer. and taaft and lee know that.

      • racerrodig says:

        I believe Trayvon did answer. He said “..I don’t know ’em…’

        Amazingly the 2 voices that will crush FogenPhoole both come from those who have died.

        1) The Prosecution calls the discoveries of Sir Issac Newton which will will demonstrate how all liquids flow downhill…..

        2) The prosecution will now play one of the 911 calls in which you can clearly hear the victim Trayvon Martin beg for his life.

        Seems that all liquids do flow downhill. Fogens bullshit seems to flow everywhere… matter, I’ll take gravity of forced bullshit any time.

      • lurker says:

        They forget that in Zimmerman’s narrative he never asked anything of Trayvon–nor offered any explanation of why he was following him.

    • Christopher Charles says:

      Did you know that the brothers in the Till case-Bryant and Milam- both died from bone cancer. I have heard that it is a very painful death. The wife, Carolyn Bryant, has not had much of a life. She divorced Roy and has lived in virtual hiding/seclusion for the last 60 plus years. Money Mississippi, the scene of the crime, pretty much doesn’t exist any more. I don’t know how the defense attorneys or the jurors fared, but I suspect that everyone involved in that horrendous crime has been visited by Karma, as will gz, his lawyers and all those who demonize TM and his family and supporters.

  75. I’m tweeting the article and quotes. Folks are responding by retweeting. Word is getting out as I type. I’ve tweeted the article to Natalie Jackson and Benjamin Crump.

    • looneydoone says:

      I refuse to log onto gzlegal, but just heard 10 of the 25 photo images the defense released as “From Trayvon’s phone and other sources” have been taken down. Something about them having been inadvertently mixed in with discovery…clerical error
      Is anyone able to confirm their removal from gzlegal ?
      Mark’s been caught with his o’mara in the wringer 😉

      • He took them down? Mixed with discovery clerical error my ass! Let me check and see.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I noticed on a Fogen support site that someone mentioned that some pics were not on the site, I didn’t look, but it wouldn’t surprise me. For one thing, that fight video was posted at the Treestump early last year – it doesn’t appear to be Trayvon and it certainly didn’t come off his phone. Someone pulled it from, they say, his Facebook, but I have my doubts about that too.

  76. cielo62 says:

    >^..^< the defense team is out of control and desperate. That's still no reason to be unethical and slimy. Threefold, MOM and West. Three fold.

  77. Shari says:

    I’m posting less because I don’t have anything to add except for general rants about the case. I will share links to this website so the truth can counteract the lies.

  78. diary73 says:

    I wonder if the prosecution could do the following: ask for a change in venue, which would be coupled with a gag order. In doing so, he could concede to allowing the six-week continuance (this will be needed anyway to begin mailing out new jury summonses). O’Mara should then be sanctioned to repay the state of Florida for the cost of generating and mailing out a new set of summonses.

    I will be glad with the MSM begins to report widely the opinions of Nichols and Deen to let the public know what is really going on. O’Mara’s slander needs to backfire in the media, the very medium he is using to adulterate the system.

    • cielo62 says:

      That is an awesome idea! Deflate MOM and his evil little scheme.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @cielo62, When I wrote that comment on the other thread and, used the word Heathen I had no idea that it would be offensive to anyone here and, I certainly had no Idea as to who it would offend here.

        I have heard of wiccans and at the same time, I had no idea that some people refer to them as being heathens because I know nothing about them and, I did not know who was and, wasn’t a wiccan. as a matter of fact I never knew it was considered a religion. I have also used that term here before and, no one has ever complained about it until now.

        • cielo62 says:

          Ladystclaire- I know you’ve used the term before. I chose to ignore it then, believing it was not common. In truth you’ve used it only 2 other times. But I guess I just wanted to say something; speak out since the word was used in a truly vicious and negative light. The only time people can learn is if someone else speaks out. I hope I didn’t offend you. According to Christians, I am a heathen. But I have a rich spiritual life. I, too believe in justice. That is one thread that binds us all together.

          Sent from my iPod

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        Heathen is term used to describe anyone who is not a follower of one of the Abrahamic religions.

      • looneydoone says:

        I self identify as a heretic 😉

      • ladystclaire says:

        @cielo62, I am not privy to know what religion ANYBODY here is and, that includes YOU! You act as though I deliberately used that term to offend you you when you and everybody here, knows exactly who I was referring to.

        Forgive me if I’m not in the business of reading other people’s minds, or knowing what religion they are. My intentions were not to offend anybody here when I used that word.

        What other words am I not suppose to use, for fear of offending someone’s religion? I’ve got my own remedy for not doing so.

        • cielo62 says:

          calm down ladystclaire! It was a request with my reason stated. If I had taken it as intentional I would have been harsher in my post. Just reconsider using it, NOW that you know. One can’t learn if something isn’t said.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Send the trial to Dade County …. Trayvon territory!

    • operacarla says:

      It is so annoying that MOM wants to sequester the entire 500 person jury pool to protect them from “the media” while he manipulates the “media” Problem is he might win with this sleazy nonsense. Professor..your pursuit of JUSTICE inspires me. Thank you.

    • The defendant has a 6th Amendment right to be tried in the county where the alleged offense was committed.

      The 6th Amendment provides:

      In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence

      Therefore, the trial cannot be moved to another county without the defendant’s consent

      He isn’t going to consent since he wants it tried there.

      • DruDo says:

        The jurors in Casey Anthony’s trial were brought to Orlando from the Tampa area which is on the west coast of FL. Could not a jury be brought in from another area? Would fogen have to agree to that? Although, I believe that was essentially a bad move since the jury was sequestered throughout the trial and became tired, bored and just wanted to get out of there and go home. I honestly think they got to a point they just didn’t care about actual justice for the child and were only too willing to buy Baez’s bull and took the easy way out. I’d like to see a jury brought in from the Dade Co./Miami area for fogen’s trial. Now THAT would be a whole different ballgame.

        • racerrodig says:

          The trial of Rabbi Fred Neulander in Camden Country resulted in a hung jury. The re-trial was held in Monmouth County and I followed this one. I don’t recall the Rabbi agreeing to a move however…..but I could be wrong.

          Funny, he said something similar to what Fogens man Taaffe said
          “You have no idea how much rage I have.” Hmmmmmmmm

      • Jun says:

        Fogen wants the jury to be Joonyah, Papa Z, Gladass, Taffee, Ostertrench and Shellie

        • racerrodig says:

          What ?? !! ?? No Joe “Rent a Friend” Oliver……just for color.

          I sense some racism here (hehehehehehehe)

  79. FactsFirst says:

    Thanks Professor Leatherman, for renewing my faith in the judicial system… I use to DREAM about being a defense attorney back in the day.. I know there are not many of you, but people like you give me hope… just saying.. THANK YOU! No matter what happens..

  80. Rachael says:

    After 48 hours to reflect on what you said in Friday’s post, my opinion has not changed either and, in fact, I too am even more disgusted today than I was Friday.

    • two sides to a story says:

      X2. I’ve twittered, tweeted, sputtered and fumed!

      Hopefully there will be some sanction by the state of FL for violating the rules of evidence and general ethics for defense attorneys.

      • Xena says:

        Coming in late and just got to this comment. I’ve watched the hearing of Oct. 19th where O’Mara said that Trayvon’s parents removed his Twitter and FB accounts from the internet. Then, he said that he received some of the pages in his office that had been gathered from the web. (We know what that means.) He also said they had not been verified.

        The photos that O’Mara released with Trayvon’s text records are not all photos obtained from his cell phone. We know those that Zidiots purported were from Trayvon’s FB accounts. O’Mara wants to mislead the public to believe they are ALL from Trayvon’s cell phone.

        BDLR said at that hearing that the defense had received Trayvon’s T-Mobile phone records. So, O’Mara has had that information since October. All the hoopla and diatribes since then about the raw data and such, is nothing more than dilatory tactics hoping to delay trial.

        Then, I went back to the Motion for a Protective Order filed by the state last year in May. The State did, indeed, request a protective order to seal Trayvon’s phone records. The defense filed a motion in agreement and asked the court to classify discovery material for sealing before release and what cannot be released. .

        HOWEVER, Judge Lester’s order, while sealing GZ’s cell phone records including texts, failed in total to address, Trayvon’s phone records.

        Hopefully, BDLR can show the court that O’Mara took an opportunist advantage by releasing that information. O’Mara knows, or has good reason to know, that Judge Lester’s order should apply to Trayvon’s records and not specifically including his name in the order was inadvertent.

      • bettykath says:

        Many photos posted on fb come from cell phones, in fact, I would expect most of them young people are from their cells. It’s entirely possible that the photos in questions were from Trayvon’s cell phone.

      • LeaNder says:

        Many photos posted on fb come from cell phones, in fact, I would expect most of them young people are from their cells. It’s entirely possible that the photos in questions were from Trayvon’s cell phone.

        Are you responding to Xena, Betty? Concernining your statement. Fact is the photos released were not all from Trayvon’s cell. Yes surely a highh percentage of photos by teens may be from cell phones. But the “may” seems also a recurring word in the latest defense motions.

        Fact is, just as Xena suggested that they smuggled in some photos that are not related to Trayvon’s cell phone. You only have to read carefully:

        Twenty-five photos of Trayvon Martin, or from, Trayvon Martin’s phone (1), (2)

        Fact is some of these photos circulated early in the right blogsphere, and some may well be manipulated. E.g. the one with the supposedly obscene guesture that is usually censored and that LLMPapa used so brilliantly lately. How do you explain the hand has a different color than the body? I am not sure, but somehow doubt some kind of cell phone flash could result in such an image. In any case I wouldn’t completely rule out that Trayvon Martin’s social media accounts were hacked. Incidentially I checked twitter and facebook settings and found out that you have to use specific settings to prevent that. Some people may use it for years before they find out.

        In any case many of these photos are very old material from the Trayvon the thug rumor mill. Only now defense has sanctified them by making them “evidence”.

        In any case, legitimate or not, how are they relevent?

    • ladystclaire says:

      Same here Rachael and, I knew all along that Fogen’s father and brother both had their hands in this. Mark omara should find some shame from some where and, then he ought to be ashamed of himself.

      He has been playing up to racist people from day one and, I don’t know if it would do any good for him and west to be kicked off this case and, get a jury pool from some where else. this MORON killed a child and, he and his fellow racist want to see him get away with it.

      What are they going to do, if Fogen is slapped with a hate crime charge? who will his family as well as their racist brethren use as jackasses in order to get him out of that charge?

      This is so unfair for them to do this to Trayvon and his family. they should both be disbarred and, not even be allowed to get a job as being a dog catcher. this is the dirtiest defense that I have ever seen. IMO they are worse than Jose Baez could have ever thought of being. GOD please don’t let this man get away with murdering this child, Trayvon Martin. I am so worried now.

      • Mary Davis says:

        @ ladystclaire. Don’t worry Lady, everything is gonna work out just fine. fogen will be convicted and serve prison time. Remember Mark and West are intentionally deceiving the court and tampering with a jury pool. Everyone knows it, and this kind of behavior from officers of the court cannot be swept under the rug. The judge has a sacred duty to address this and put a stop to it, after all it is her courtroom and she is in charge of it.

        Just think what her peers will think if this is not handled in an appropriate manner. If she does not do something about what these two lawyers are doing in this judicial system, there will be an uproar. The judge has to address this. BTW I think charges should be brought against these two. Lady, lets just keep focused and stay positive. Fogen knows his goose is cooked.

  81. FactsFirst says:

    TOP TEN!!! Dammit! LOL!

  82. Ty Flair says:

    In other words Professor Omara is playing the race card hoping to find raciest jurors.

  83. I hope they spend more time on Jury selection. The manner in which people are predisposed to GZ’s innocence despite obvious evidence and the corrupting influence by Rene Stutzman and the Orlando Sentinel in their district really has me concerned that they’re looking for a needle in a haystack when it comes to an impartial jury.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Despicable, simply despicable!!! And now we have blood on the garage frame at 2861 RVC Witness 13’s house, who I believe, says in his 2/26/2012 interview that he didn’t know either person out there, yet he is asked to call gz’s wife and do so without even asking for the number. BTW, he also claims that he came out of his house by the garage door and then walked north on RVC and around to the T, he says that when he got there, gz was 6 to 8 feet away at that point and walking on the walkway, not on the grass.

      • Xena says:

        @Lonnie Starr.

        BTW, he also claims that he came out of his house by the garage door and then walked north on RVC and around to the T, …

        Any blood placed on Jon’s garage door would need to be before GZ killed Trayvon rather than after. Afterwards, Jon was standing outside with LE.

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @ Xena,

          Yes, the blood would have to have been applied before the murder.

          Any reports yet that the authorities did test this stain/smear for blood, and the date it was acquired and tested?

          Any DNA ID?

          • racerrodig says:

            One of my Federal Investigator friends keeps telling me the State has something huge…is this it. All 3 of them keep telling me, watch, but stay seated. I know the phone records are a major problem for Fogen, but if this is blood and was tested and the blood on his boo boo’s turns out to be the same, he’s really screwed.

            How did we all miss this one for so long or was this picture just released. I know this weekend is the 1st I’ve seen it, or heard mention of it.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            It’s been “hiding in plain sight” all year long. That’s why “it takes a village”, there so much out there it takes lots of people looking from many different angles to make any sense of it all. Remember a long time ago when I said that data without a theory is pretty darned useless? Well this is an exact example of that. While the theories about what gz was doing, weren’t being allowed to develop fully, because of people like unitron creating distractions, this is the result!

            It probably would have been discovered sooner, had we more theories being developed. It doesn’t even matter that they’re right or wrong theories, because however configured it’s the theories that gives us reason to research. If the theory is wrong it will be debunked, but often on the way to doing so, other things are discovered.

            Some people are very well organized and have their files where they can put their hands on things quickly. While others are good at theorizing and connecting and examining a wide variety of data, thus they appear disorganized. But when we work together we move faster and cover more ground. We also apprehend more subtle connections that might have gone missing if we were all organized or all disorganized. So, “it takes a village” to get things done!

          • cielo62 says:

            Lonnie- “If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together”. African proverb.

            Sent from my iPod

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            That is another good African proverb. “It takes a village” is also an African proverb. Hardly a surprise when you realize what Africans of prehistory had to contend with, long before man came out of Africa.

          • racerrodig says:

            Yep…..sometimes we are too close to see the trees. I got return on my “pry” earlier. When you get a chance, hop on BB& private chat, whatever she has open and I’ll tell you what I found.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Roger that Racer, check the site.

          • racerrodig says:

            10 – 4…..I’m wayyyyy behind.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Yep, his team is working with unredacted files so they’ve been able to make connections different and/or faster than we do. I’m going to guess that they have someone scanning the saner sites looking for promising theories to pursue. and perhaps even making some discoveries they might otherwise have overlooked. Or even finding pitfalls to avoid. ITAV!

          • racerrodig says:

            Yep, nothing like having the source.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Yep, and unless Jon or his neighbors were having a food fight between then and dawn, that’s either blood on his garage door frame or whatever else gz may have used to make himself appear to be covered in blood.

          With all these people needing to cover their trails, and the only way they had to do so was to rally to gz’s side, hardly a wonder gz found so much support initially. My guess is the SP was able to use the autopsy report to sweat John into getting up off his MMA blows.

          “Bent the corner racket” and this blood on Jon’s garage door frame, just might combine with Shellie’s deposition to sweat a few more cohorts. I hope it’s not too late to look at Jon Manalo’s phones.

      • groans says:

        @ Lonnie, re:

        And now we have blood on the garage frame at 2861 RVC Witness 13′s house….

        I don’t understand what you mean by, “And now we have….”

        Is the blood on the garage frame a recent event? Or is it new evidence from 2/26/12? Do you have a link to your source, please?

        Thank you.

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