Defense mendacity in Zimmerman case is disgusting

Friday, May 24, 2013

Good morning:

George Zimmerman’s attorneys, Mark O’Mara and Don West, have unintentionally confirmed this week that they have no defense to present on his behalf by knowingly and intentionally publishing false, irrelevant and inadmissible information about Trayvon Martin to incite white racists to denounce him as a pot smoking black thug who deserved to die.

I used the word “confirmed” because three weeks ago the defendant appeared in open court and waived his right to an immunity hearing. The mixture of false and misleading information released yesterday is not a defense to second degree murder. It’s deliberate character assassination by false statement and innuendo of an unarmed teenager who was stalked, restrained and shot through the heart while screaming for help.

Here’s LLMPapa:

Last I heard, skipping school, pot smoking and participating in refereed fights between equal combatants is not a death penalty offense.

In other news, the defense attorneys filed a flurry of forgettable motions and responses to prosecution motions which, like snowflakes in April, are destined to melt when they hit the ground.

I begin with Donald West’s frivolous, dishonest and intentionally misleading reefer-madness motion that he filed earlier this week arguing that a trace amount of marijuana in Trayvon Martin’s autopsy blood should be admissible to prove that he was the aggressor even though he was unarmed and the defendant stalked, restrained and shot him in the heart.

The defense motion to continue:

1. cites no authority,

2. claims he needs to investigate Dr. Reich (the State’s audio expert who identified Trayvon as the person screaming for help), which takes about an hour if you google him,

3. claims other unnamed experts told him Dr. Reich’s opinion is based on science that has fallen into “disrepute,”

4. fails to support this assertion with an affidavit from one or more of these experts, and

5. claims he needs time to find an expert to hire even though he is supposedly in touch with all of these experts.

This motion is ridiculous and will be denied because it fails to document a reason for a continuance.

O’Mara’s motion for sanctions against Bernie de la Rionda for not disclosing the evidence that the defense obtained from Trayvon’s phone and published in its 3rd evidence dump, is frivolous because the so-called exculpatory evidence that he claims BDLR withheld in violation of the Brady rule is not exculpatory.

Therefore, the Brady rule does not apply and this motion should be denied.

West’s reply to the State’s motion to exclude opinion evidence about the defendant’s guilt or innocence generally admits that witness opinions about the guilt or innocence of a defendant are inadmissible but warns that if the State attempts to attribute the delay in arresting and charging the defendant (which isn’t relevant either), then the State will have opened the door to allowing the defense to call SPD cops to justify what they did.

I don’t believe this issue will come up as it is irrelevant to whether the defendant murdered Trayvon.

Sideline mini-trials about marginally relevant or irrelevant issues are exactly what evidence rule 403 is designed to prevent.

West’s 2-page reply to the State’s motion to exclude the defendant’s self-serving hearsay statements, which does not cite a case, generally agrees that many of the defendant’s statements are hearsay, if offered by the defense, but disagrees with the State’s argument that none of the defendant’s statements are admissible under the res gestae exception or some other exception to the hearsay rule. West asks Judge Nelson to reserve ruling until the issue comes up in trial.

This is a sneaky response because West wants to be able to ask a leading question seeking agreement from a witness that the defendant said XYZ. For example, he might ask SPD Investigator Serino this question:

George told you that he killed Trayvon in self-defense, didn’t he?

Bernie de la Rionda (BDLR) would object to the question because it contains an inadmissible self-serving hearsay statement.

Judge Nelson would sustain the objection, but she cannot unring the bell, so to speak. The jury would have heard the defendant’s inadmissible statement.

He also would probably like to mention that self-serving hearsay statement during the defense opening statement to the jury or maybe during jury selection.

The purpose of the State’s motion in limine regarding the defendant’s self-serving hearsay statements is to prevent those events from happening, and I am reasonably certain Judge Nelson has seen this trick before and is savvy enough to see through West’s tactical deception.

Therefore, I expect she will grant the State’s motion.

BTW, the res gestae exception that West mentions is a limited exception to the hearsay rule similar to the present-sense-impression exception in which the hearsay statement about an event occurs as the event happens. Thus, the statement is part of the event itself or the res gestae and cannot be excised from it.

The State’s motion in limine seeking an order prohibiting the defense from mentioning the voice stress analysis test that the defendant took should be granted because that’s the legal rule in Florida and elsewhere. The rule is based on the lack of general agreement among scientists that this type of test can consistently produce accurate and reliable results.

In other words, the test violates the Frye Rule.

Judge Nelson should grant this motion.

The State’s 3rd motion for a gag order asks Judge Nelson to put an end to the defense effort to poison the jury pool by assassinating Trayvon Martin’s good character with false evidence and innuendo publicized after the jury pool of 500 people have received their notices to report for jury service on June 10, 2013.

It is no accident that the defense waited until after the 500 potential jurors were served with their notices, but before they report for jury service. Therefore, this was a deliberate tactic to create an unringing the bell problem regarding false, irrelevant, and inadmissible evidence.

A gag order will not unring the bell.

This is quite possibly the sleaziest tactic that I have ever seen. To intentionally poison a jury pool a couple of weeks before trial with false and misleading information about the victim of a homicide calculated to incite and unite White racists to approve of the execution of an unarmed Black teenager is astonishing.

These two lawyers are fortunate that I am not Judge Nelson because I would jail them for contempt of court and file complaints against the bar association requesting their disbarment from the practice of law.


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813 Responses to Defense mendacity in Zimmerman case is disgusting

  1. tonya B says:

    HLN has a special on right now on the case…. #justic4trayvon

  2. dianetrotter says:

    The angry angle takes this down a completely different path. If at some point GZ observed that TM was in an angry discussion on the phone, that was time to stop following him. Obviously he wasn’t looking for a place to break in to. Who gets angry and then looks for a house to rob. That was time to stop following him. Tell dispatch, “Oh he is having an angry argument on the phone.”

    • The so-called angry conversation by phone that Trayvon might have had with or about someone is irrelevant and inadmissible.

      To determine the potential relevance of any evidence or event in a case, you have to look at the charging document (the information). Defendant is charged with murder 2, which means the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he caused Trayvon’s death by committing an act imminently dangerous to another person with depraved indifference.

      Whether Trayvon exchanged some angry words with someone over the phone does not make it more, or less likely that the prosecution can prove that. Therefore the evidence is irrelevant.

      • dianetrotter says:

        I was just thinking of GZ telling NEN he didn’t know what TM’s deal/thing was. Once you hear that it’s a private argument, I would think you go about your own business … relieved that he’s not a crook. Then when TM asks “Why are you following me?”, GZ could have responded, “Oh I didn’t realize you were having a telephone conversation. I thought you were looking for a house to break into.

      • Malisha says:

        You’d have to teach your kids:

        “Never do anything ever, in your whole life, that anyone, anywhere, at any time, could ever criticize or that they could say made you a bad person. EVER. Never get angry about anything ever in your life. Never get in minor trouble at school. Never put a picture up that shows you to be anything other than an obedient, sweet, loving, kindly, and most importantly PASSIVE choir-boy boy-scout looking to do your next good deed. Never try to defend yourself from any sort of assault. Never seem unwilling to bow down in abject worshipful subserviance to any stranger. If you do any of the above, you may be murdered and nobody will be considered to have done wrong by killing you.”

        I’d rather not HAVE kids than teach them THAT! But O’Mara and West are presenting to all the kids in the country who read newspapers exactly that picture. O’Mara and West are presenting to the nation’s children the specter a country in which nobody is free to be anything other than what some self-appointed “neighborhood cleanser” with a loaded gun decides he or she should be.

        Would the child being taught such a thing rather be living here or, say, in Iran, where at least the rules are clear and they are made by a visible authority?

  3. New post up:

    Defense team is out of control

    FYI: I have been having problems with my browser and word press that prevented me from posting this article for several hours. Looks like I’ve solved the problem.

    Apologize for the inconvenience


  4. colin black says:

    TRAYVONS Parents loved him more than life
    Trayvon rescued his FATHERS LIFE from a fire.
    Trayvons Parents cared although seperated they both involved themselfs in there CHILDRENS LIFES EDUCATION AN UPBRINGINGING.

    Trayvon was a Young Teen on the cusp of learning to be a man.
    Whom better to mentor him than his FATHER.

    Foggagges parents showed him the door as soon as he was of age.
    Foggagges parents told him your ass is grasss but an egg in your shoe an beat it.
    You dirty little cousin molesting sod.
    Foggagges parents paid for him to just stay the fuck away.

    An foggagges parents bailed him out when ever there idiot no 2 adoptted ball an chain fucked up yet again
    An punched out a cop or smacked his fiance upside the head
    Or blew a BLACK CHILD AWAY…

    A mean what choice did they have they knew he is gone in the head an if not placicated .
    Will spill the family secrets.
    Cut off your electric to blackmail more money out of you .

    Pay his rent pay his utilites pay to stay away.

    An hope an pray this goes away becase if foggagge goes away he is going to BAWL LIKE A BIG BABY AN TELL ALL.

    An thease are the low lifes whom the treepers support an yet

    The noblest family or one of because of skin colour.

    • Deborah says:


      What a wonderful post! Straight and to the point and so true! Fogen’s “parents” did kick him to the curb, and they paid his rent to keep him away, and that fool was sill in arrears. Also, I have “read” that Fogen was “adopted?” What’s up with story? It seems that these folks got a “Chuckie.” An demon spwan IMO.

  5. Nef05 says:

    Not sure if Lavendar Fairy posts here, but I know Peni4 can’t – so I’m going to copy LV’s post and Peni’s link. This is a crime scene photo link to a (rather large) blood smear on W13’s garage trim.

    Given that the Garage’s are on front of the homes, and not in an area fogen ever claimed to be part of the altercation, or an area he claimed he OR Trayvon were in – this appears to be a rather large development on a weekend when the defense is spewing garbage all over the media. When you get to the link, scroll through the photo gallery below pic to pics 62 and 63.

    LV’s post

    So when trial rolls around, which isn’t far off, someone’s going to have some splainin to do regarding the bloody print on witness 13’s garage door trim. It’s pretty clear from the photo that it is enough blood to clearly be printed. Very odd it is found on the opposite side of the complex of where Trayvon was killed or the path that GZ claims Trayvon took. I believe it’s going to bring up some real inconveniences for somebody & could possibly lead to the real truth of exactly what happened that night.

    • OMG u beat me to it

      This proves that GZ was bleeding before he made contact with George. I don’t know who LV is but I’m sure TM is giving her an invisible hug right now.

      • Nef05 says:

        Exactly. “BIG PROPS” to Lavender Fairy and Peni who was able to find a workable link.

        So – if I understand the ramifications accurately, it also blows every single version fogen gave about where he was, and when. At no time does he put himself in W13’s driveway and the garage entrance. Also puts him in the front of the homes, instead of on the cut thru, giving support to those who theorize that fogen went down the front to the second cut thru and blocked Trayvon from the North – by putting himself between Trayvon and Brandi’s home.

        Is there anyone who knows where W13’s home is, in relation to young Austin’s home (who saw fogen alone on the ground, presumably after a slip and fall on the wet ground), and/or where Austin saw fogen on the ground? Is there a sketch from Austin?

        I’m just wondering if maybe fogen braced his bloody hand on W13’s garage trim to lever his phatass off the ground, before he (again) went looking for Trayvon.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Major trouble here, remember this is witness #13, John is witness #6
          So this has to be Jon. Okay, he says that he came out of his house by the garage, which is in front, and he walked all the way around towards the tee. When he got around there, he says he saw gz on the walkway coming north towards him and he was only about 7 or 8 feet away. AxiomAmnesia has his three interviews and no 911 calls for him, even though he claims to have 911 on speed dial and he says he called them as he exited the house.

          I also believe I heard him say that he didn’t know either party.

          How about if it was his door that gz was knocking on and now he’s saying that he came out by the garage, in case anyone saw gz at his garage door? That way he could simply say it was him coming out and that the witness was mistaken. After all, they would need the exact time, because without it their claims could not be verified.


          Witness Summary:

          He said he didn’t see the actual incident. He went outside after the shooting. George Zimmerman was out of breath and “acting like he had just gotten his butt beat.” He asked Zimmerman if he needed him to call 911. He states he called Zimmerman’s wife while he was being cuffed and explained what was happening. Zimmerman blurted out, “Just tell her that I shot someone.” He says Zimmerman was very matter of fact–like it wasn’t a big deal.
          9-1-1 Call: None


          The following interviews are the full, uncut audio files released as part of the discovery court proceedings in the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman case. Names and some other identifying information have been redacted to protect the identities of the witnesses.
          [see link above]

      • Nef05 says:

        Oops – I meant blocking him from the South. At least I think I did. I’m all turned around now – Poor sense of direction.

        What I mean is, he went down the frontside of the homes, “cut thru” the second cut thru which would put him in front of Trayvon, between Trayvon and Brandi’s home, instead of behind Trayvon at the “T” as he claimed. As many people have theorized for a year now, this may be some physical evidence that puts GZ in that position. Without a doubt, it still puts him where he never put himself, in any of his official police statements.

        • PiranhaMom says:


          Nef, provided the cops analyzed that smear, found it to have GZ DNA, your itinerary for the murderer is correct.

      • BillT says:

        from the start i thought i heard fogen knocking on a door during his nen call and also thought he went inside and out their back door to cut off Martin, who thought he had lost him and didnt know fogen was on foot…….that it how he suddenly appeared real close coming from inside on the the homes….there is no question in my mind some residents there saw the whole thing and KNOW what went down……the reaction of the caller that ran upstairs when he heard the shot, was to me like he KNEW there was no reason to shot Martin…disbelief type of instant reaction.

      • IF I’m not mistaken, didn’t Trent state in one of his videos that he heard some type of knocking?

        • Deborah says:


          Yes. Trent Sawyer produced a video on this a long time ago. You can find it on Youtube. He mentioned that Fogen had wen to the back door of the witness, but these folks have their balck door closed off, so he was forced to go around to their front door. How come these people have not come forward with this information?

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Yeah it’s on the NEN call, that and a series of unexplained sounds that appear to be guns being racked.

          But gz tries to claim that the knocks we hear are him rapping on his flashlight to get it working. Serino check the flashlight and found it to be in perfect working condition. So there’s that.

      • Romaine says:

        The side view mirror on the grey car to the right is not positioned correctly (facing outward versus inward towards the driver side window). the mirror also appears to be broken in the bottom lower right side of the mirror…I cant get a good zoom on it to be sure.

      • But I need a blood test on that evidence. I’m curious if that may be TM’s blood due to witness 13 fleeing into his own home. I’m wondering if he actually did help GZ when asked by GZ. BTW if you listen to the audio, you can hear TM scream help me but right b4 that you can hear GZ say help me. I simply don’t understand how witness 13 can say he didn’t know GZ but did know his wife’s phone number to call her.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          That and the blood stain on his garage door frame may make him a surprise witness for the prosecution. gz is toast!
          TICK TOCK

          • racerrodig says:

            I can’t help but think this is the thing my Fed guys said is the one big piece that will crush Fogen……and we missed it until now ??

            I’m going to pry now…….

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Do we know who took the set of photos or that particular photo?

        Perhaps that’s part of the hearing statement from the prosecution – “that’s not the evidence as we know it.”

      • ladystclaire says:

        Do you guys know what this means? I guess we need to call this to Bernie’s attention. Fogen had those boo boos before he confronted Trayvon and, that is obvious because of the dried blood on his head and the sides of his face.

        IMO it’s very telling that Jon, Jeremy and W11 have always told less than what they actually know about this murder. I also believe ShelLie was right there with Fogen when he jumped his fat ass out of that truck, to chase this kid down.

        Do they not realize that they can be charged with Obstruction of Justice, for lying to LE as well as keeping crucial evidence that they may have, from the state. like Fogen, these three people plus a few more, have lied from day one.

        When dispatch ask W11 if she knew who was screaming for help and why, SHE LIED because she knew exactly who it was and why he was screaming.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Since the days over at the I’ve been saying that there were more people than just gz alone going down on this case.

          • racerrodig says:

            Been saying the same thing since last August or so. I can vouch you’ve been walking down that road for a long time.

            “…tell ’em this..” followed by Fogens apparent confusion, mistaken for being drunk or his medication, on the NEN call is now looming a bit larger now for me. The gun racking and double door close sound now makes even more sense.

            Bernie has been so confidant from day 1

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            With the trial less than 2 weeks away, we’ve narrowed down the time gz spent in contact with Trayvon to less than one minute.

            Now note with care: DD’s call drops at 7:16:–, As far as we knew it could have been anything from 7:16:00, to 7:16:59, except that at 7:a16:11 the 911 call starts, thus we now know that the gap is only 11 seconds where we cannot account for what’s happening.

            But, we do know from experience that 11 seconds is a pretty darned short time. AND we know that something pretty darned well startling had to have happened during that time for a mere 11 seconds of hearing, whatever it was, to be deemed good and sufficient cause for the witness to dial 911 so quickly. Doesn’t the 3 to 4 seconds it takes to pick up the phone, dial and connect, take anything away from the 11 seconds allotted? Is this lady “Quick Draw McGraw” or what? Or was what she heard so terribly frightening Freddy Kruger and Norman Bates would have paled?

            Trayvon’s complaint is that gz is behind him again. That’s not any indication that Trayvon is seeking to confront gz, because, if that were the case then proximity would have been what Trayvon desired, but it wasn’t! Instead Trayvon’s complaint to DD is that gz is closing the distance between them. At first contact Trayvon’s call is rudely interrupted by a vigorous contact. Is that contact even possibly Trayvon assaulting gz? Or is it more likely that gz has made physical contact with Trayvon, interrupting whatever Trayvon was doing at the time?

            Obviously Trayvon was interested in seeing these hostilities ended. He asks “Why are you following me for?” He deserves an answer, instead his phone is knocked to the ground. So then, which party was most likely interested in waging an attack against whom? The angry adult who pursued Trayvon? Or Trayvon asking why he’s being pursued?

            Well, whatever the answers to these questions might be, we know that some sound picked up by a witness, caused her to immediately dial 911, in so few seconds that Trayvon would barely have time to think about what was happening to him. Then this stranger who refuses to answer or give any reason for his conduct, within 45 seconds draws his weapon and fires into the heart of a kid, who he is holding onto by the clothing and pulling pretty darned hard.

            Worse yet, while this is going on, witnesses are hearing other people arguing loudly at another location entirely and moving towards where gz and Trayvon are standing. But, when the shot is fired these other people, responsible for the other racket, simply disappear. What were they doing out there in the dark and the rain?
            Where did they go? Who were they? Well, the answer to those questions seems to lay hidden in the unexplained appearance of people who knew gz, quickly showing up at the scene, even though no directions have been given them, that would guide them to the correct location.

            Things that make one go Hmmmm!

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Lonnie –

            Re: “Obviously Trayvon was interested in seeing these hostilities ended. He asks “Why are you following me for?” He deserves an answer, instead his phone is knocked to the ground. So then, which party was most likely interested in waging an attack against whom? The angry adult who pursued Trayvon? Or Trayvon asking why he’s being pursued?

            “Well, whatever the answers to these questions might be, we know that some sound picked up by a witness, caused her to immediately dial 911, in so few seconds that Trayvon would barely have time to think about what was happening to him. Then this stranger who refuses to answer or give any reason for his conduct, within 45 seconds draws his weapon and fires into the heart of a kid, who he is holding onto by the clothing and pulling pretty darned hard.”

            Especially note: “Well, whatever the answers to these questions might be, we know that some sound picked up by a witness, caused her to immediately dial 911, in so few seconds that Trayvon would barely have time to think about what was happening to him.”

            Lonnie, the answers are on Jenna’s 911 call – the first 911 call made. They are also on HOA Board Member Jenna’s taped interview with FDLE.

            Jenna tells FDLE she heard – “What are you doing … ”

            On the 911 call she yells repeatedly, “Jeremy, get back. Get in here!”

            She tells 911 she’s “not going out there!”

            So, what was going on?

            1) She hears the assertive demand, “What are you doing …?” AND JEREMY HEARS IT AT THE SAME TIME and pops out on the porch to see. Why not; it’s some guy just arguing with another; wouldn’t any red-blooded guy like to see what’s going on out there – as spectator sport?

            2) JEREMY RECOGNIZES ZIMMERMAN IN THE FRAY. After all, Jeremy’s married to the HOA Board Member. Zimmerman was no stranger, because he’s the kind of guy who’s always seeking an “in” and sucking up to the power structure. He would make sure Jenna and Jeremy knew him.

            3) As you hear on Jenna’s 911 call, Jeremy was OUTside, because he pops back IN and tells Jenna, “He told me to k(eep quiet.)” But what Jeremy actually heard was Zimmerman telling Trayvon to shut up. Zimmerman really didn’t want an audience to what wasn’t going all that well.

            4) Jenna, from her HOA duties knows Zimmerman must be armed because there have been complaints about this.

            5) Zimmerman already had his gun out when Jeremy saw him wrangling with Trayvon.

            6) Jenna may have been out there for the first few seconds, and she may have seen the gun also. These two were very “close to the vest” in that FDLE interview later and you could hear how cagy Jenna was.

            7) The evidence shows that Trayvon’s phone was knocked off him and onto the ground.

            8) It shows the short proximity to Trayvon’s body.

            9) It proves that there was no running battle after the phone was knocked off and Trayvon was knocked to the ground, because body and cell-phone were so close. So all the action – from initial physical contact (Zimmerman’s grab to Trayvon’s hoodie, mid-chest) to gunshot – took place right there.

            Lonnie, you have shown what a short time span was involved

            Jeremy was “out there” — or why else would Jenna yell “Jeremy, get back IN!” And speak so frantically!

            If you see two guys fighting, do you immediately call 911? Naah … guys punch each other all the time.

            But if you see that one of the guys has a gun pulled on the other, Hell, yes!

            Especially if you know the assertive, pushy, bravado personality of the guy with the gun – and you see he’s taken down a black youth – at gunpoint. and you know his reputation with black folks, because black residents have already complained about the guy.

            No potential stolen bike or BBQ or TV is worth lethal gunplay so close to homes – this Neighborhood Watch stuff has gotten out of hand! People could get killed!

            Dammit, you hit 911 as fast as you can!

            Thanks, Lonnie, for figuring out the narrow time slot.

            Thanks, Jeremy, for being “out there.”

            Dr. Reich, tell us ALL that Jeremy says to Jenna on the 911 tape.

            Jeremy, get on the stand and tell the jury what you saw AND HEARD out there, and WHY you said that to Jenna about what you saw and heard.

            Because you have already stated you saw it and you heard it, and it is on the recording of the 911 call that night.

            Speak, Jeremy – speak!

      • @Leroy Eugene Hudson

        I simply don’t understand how witness 13 can say he didn’t know GZ but did know his wife’s phone number to call her.

        I find it very odd. Witness 13 never stated Zimmerman gave him a number. So how did he know the number? And what do you think of his questioning what type of gun Zimmerman used? I mean who ask what type of gun was used before they call 911?

        “He goes, ‘Aww man, this guy–he was beating up on me, so I had to shoot him…'”

        Witness 13: Did you use a 9 or a 40?

        Zimmerman: I use/used a 9.

        Did you hear witness 13 say he heard a couple of pops? How did he know Zimmerman was defending himself if he didn’t see anything? He was only going by what Zimmerman said.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Worse yet… gz says that AFTER Smith refused to let him make the call, he asked Jon to call his wife for him. Presumably Ofc. Smith was witness to this exchange, but writes nothing in his reports about it. According to the reports gz was in custody when he says “Just tell her I shot someone.”

          Thing is, if that’s all Jon told Shelly, how does she know where to find gz? In fact, since she hasn’t been told where gz is, how does she tell The Oysterman? Isn’t it funny how wifey gets a call telling her that hubby shot someone, and she and Oysterman manage to show up minutes later? Somehow able to drive directly to the location without any further guidance?

          Inquiring minds would really like to know, wouldn’t they?

          • racerrodig says:

            Not to mention the lie about “swiping in” and drafting. Then there is the Sondra Osteridiot statement on National TV “SheLie called and said (Fogen) shot somebody else” Who was first ??? !!! ???

      • @Southerngirl Maybe a lot of random guys that GZ doesn’t know happen to know She’llLie phone number:)… yeah I went there.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Good heavens, could someone have written Shellie’s number on the wall of the clubhouse bathroom?

          Hey, if Jon doesn’t know gz and gz doesn’t know him, then doesn’t Shellie need to know more than just that hubby shot someone? Like how about some directions? An address or location?

          But no, a complete stranger calls Shellie and says “your husband just shot someone”, then hangs up and right away, she calls Oysterman and they both race back to RATL and find hubby in minutes. Exactly how did Shellie know that this stranger was calling from RATL and not Colonial Village or Lakes Edge? Or anywhere else for that matter. Given their shopping ritual, she’d probably have been more inclined to head over to Walmart.

          Of course, if they were already there, then they’d hardly need any directions, addresses or locations.

          • racerrodig says:

            “Good heavens, could someone have written Shellie’s number on the wall of the clubhouse bathroom? ”

            Thanks, I just ate. At least we know it didn’t say “For a good time..”

            With the issue of where were they, how did they know where and all, I’m beginning to think this adds to what I’ve been told about the stuff the state has that will crush this guy.

            I’ll say we were all standing to close to the forest to see the trees on a few things…..correct me if I’m wrong.

            BUT…..we did know that just before trial, we’d start seeing thins more clearly.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Well, it’s only been these last few days where thanks to Xena we’ve narrowed it down to where gz’s claimed altercation had less than 45 seconds to complete. I don’t want to try naming all the names who have worked so feverishly on this case, but you know who you are, give yourselves a gold star or two.

            A barehanded attack by a teen, of less than 45 seconds, is hardly going to be considered life threatening no matter how the defense tries to color it. Worse yet, part of that 45 seconds is devoted to holding Trayvon by the clothing, issuing angry epithets and drawing, aiming and firing the deadly weapon. Somehow I doubt the jurors are going to be convinced that gz had a lethal attack on his hands. It looks like after some 20 seconds of contact, he suddenly remembered his gun, if he ever was able to forget it. Apparently he wasn’t reminded of it by sliding around on the ground.

            If he had any forgetfulness about his gun at all, it could not have lasted more than 20 seconds or so. Foggen is toast!

      • PiranhaMom says:

        @Leroy –

        Witness 13 is Jon, “Asian Male,” first guy on the crime scene; came out totally un-fearing with his big flashlight, his wife first heard the commotion pre-shot but claimed she did not see anything; after the shot Jon and George chatted it up re the caliber of bullet George used;Jon took photo of the back of George’s bloody head (while George was on his cellphone), George asked him to call his wife (so obviously Jon knew the Zimmermans (and so far Jon has NOT claimed he needed George to provide the phone number); George got impatient and snarky while Jon was talking to Shellie: “Just tell her I shot somebody; Jon describes Zimmerman’s lack of emotion/concern: “He acted like it was no big deal.”

        WELLLLL – the bloody handprint may well be a VERY bid deal — the “handwriting on the wall,” so to speak ….

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Forgive me for asking but, how has this picture been authenticated?
        This is a very good catch the front of 2861 Twin Trees Lane?
        Hmmm… let me check it. Okay so 2861 is on RVC and this is the first neighbor out side who took the pictures.

        Wow, okay, so is this Jon or John? Now I’m getting confused.
        I thought John was on TTL and Jon was on RVC?
        Anyway here’s a witness chart and map clip that is gonna help as
        soon as I get it sorted out, I’ll add text to the post at this link

        Don’t worry you’ll always find it, because it’s on my evidence pile here:
        and this is the link to save:

        • racerrodig says:

          2861 is where the Jo(h)n that took the picture lives ?? How coincidental there is blood on his door post. What’s this, the Passover????? Gee, maybe Fogen said “, I’m setting up this self defense story and a little help is on order”

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Ah yes, you should know by now that there are areas of this case that I haven’t looked to closely at because I’ve had so much to do tracking minutia in other areas and a whole bunch of other stuff. I’ve learned that it’s better to be confused and/or mistaken about a few things, to be on top of others and still have a life, than to just pore oneself into every faucet of a case. In fact, though you may be badly mistaken on some points, standing back lets you catch things that getting to close might obscure. Which is why “it takes a village” to get anything decently done in this world.

            Don’t be too hard on people who are mistaken, like B.F. Goodrich says, they may be the very ones to pull your cookies out of the fire for you. 😆

            Anyway here’s the little story. This is Jon “The Stranger” Manalo, the guy who has strangers wives phone numbers saved on his phone. The guy who can call your wife when you ask him, and whose voice tells the strange woman, where her hubby is, even without him having to give an address, eh? “Just tell her I shot someone!” That’s all wifey needs to know, and Jon doesn’t tell us he said much more than that at all before hanging up. But lo and behold, Shellie now knows enough to tell Osterman where to meet her. And, miracle of miracles they both wind up behind on another at the back gate at the same time.

            Beats me how she knew that Foggen hadn’t shot someone at Target, eh? Or maybe over at Colonial Village?

            So maybe that rapping wasn’t to get the working flashlight going at all, but to get Jon to come out and help Foggen arrange some blood and wounds. It would be just like sloppy stupid Foggen to lean a bloody hand on Jon’s garage door, leaving a stain, while Jon racked his gun to eject the last shell, so he could give Foggen a good whack on the back of the head with it.

            Oh, and let’s not get started with that racket being caused by the men arguing as they rounded the corner, while Foggen was terrorizing Trayvon under that 911 callers window. The case for there being more people involved just keeps getting stronger and stronger.

            Oh and I’ve made a play list of the 12 parts Trent Sawyer posted of the hearings, so you can listen to it straight through without having to search for the parts. HERE
            There’s also a link there to a blog post that summarizes the outcome.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Okay, I’ve got the picture and it’s photoshopped “Area of Detail” enhancement here.

        This is good because it’s finally forcing me to clear up my confusion on the Jon and John, which I could find little reason to bother with, since there was little concrete to the confusion over what they had to offer. Other than the MMA style and the ammo talk, other witnesses had more of clear value to tell.

        Anyway, this is where the crime scene photos came from:

        “Look at the daytime photos in the discovery taken the day after the shooting, by Crime Scene Tech Diana Smith. She chose what to photograph, most likely based on what she understood to be the key locations that would either corroborate or refute GZ’s version, as related to the officers who interviewed him the night before and the witness statements obtained the night before.”

        [be warned it’s not a pro-Trayvon blog, although they seem reasonable and not a lot of nastiness, just misinterpreted evidence and confusion about the controlling rules and laws. Should anyone decide to pop over there and give them a clue, please be good enough to report back, thanks]

        • racerrodig says:

          Trust me, that’s not rust, nor a grease stain, and it’s not a grass stain.

          Funny how Fogen didn’t say “….um, I rubbed the back of my jacket on the garage door post to get all that grass staining off”

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I noticed that before when these photos came out, but how do we know it’s a blood smear?

      • Nef05 says:

        Great question. I’m going back through to see if I somehow missed a swab. While I might have missed one, personally, I don’t think everyone else would have missed it as well. I’m also curious as to the distance of the pic, rather than a close-up. Seems like this pic is framed to put that off-aligned side-view mirror in the pic, as if someone had blundered through that pathway between the cars to that point of the “stain” for lack of a better word.

        It looks like blood to me, but that’s worth nothing more than my opinion, which doesn’t mean jack in a courtroom. But, including it in the crime scene photos, with (or especially) in the context of the “broken” side view mirror, does appear to give it significance. The color appears to seem like “fresh” blood, as opposed to something else, and clearly someone photographing the scene felt it was significant to the events of that evening. Interesting when we recall they didn’t take any pics or swabs of any concrete sidewalk area where fogen’s head was “bashed”, nor ask him to point that concrete area out, specifically, during the reenactment. I had always wondered about that. Could it be because they felt they already knew his head wasn’t injured on the concrete where he said it was? I don’t know – but it’s certainly worth thinking about.

        Do you have any ideas we could consider, as to what other substance it might possibly be? I’m certainly open to suggestions.

        • cielo62 says:

          Nef05- if not blood, maybe engine oil from the street or driveway. Dog fecal matter? Without a toxicology report, it could be anything, including blood.

          Sent from my iPod

        • PiranhaMom says:


          Re: “Interesting when we recall they didn’t take any pics or swabs of any concrete sidewalk area where fogen’s head was “bashed”, nor ask him to point that concrete area out, specifically, during the reenactment.”

          This is what drove me crazy a year ago. I have no police contacts in FL so I had no way to badger anyone on his issue.

          But frantic to find some intelligent inquiry, I happened upon Professor Leatherman’s site.

          Been here ever since.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Well, my guestimate is… Let’s see, it seems the photographer is standing a few feet east of the squad car which is about what 6ft wide? Then there’s a sidewalk another few feet and then the length of a car 10 ft? Roughly 22 to 24 feet I’d guess.

          • racerrodig says:

            The car is about 15 foot, maybe a little longer, Not to be unitron, but I do cars and order car covers by length all the time.

          • My ’61 Coupe de Ville?……’bout 22 ft.

          • racerrodig says:

            Commonly called a “Land Yacht” 390 4GC Carb and what, about 7 mpg, downhill with a tail wind ???

          • Blew the tranny @ 105MPH on I-5 outside Tulare Calif. in ’73

          • racerrodig says:

            Ahhh Man!! They were Kool Kars…..

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            …And of course, we know you do. It’s your field of expertise. My effort was just an off hand “quick n’ dirty” guesstimate. So I add five more feet and my guess becomes ~29 to 30 feet? I’m sure someone can do better, but unless it’s more than casual curiosity, no reason why a guesstimate shouldn’t suffice. Whatever.

          • racerrodig says:

            My apology for being “critical”

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Hahaha… Not needed, since it’s your field of expertise it’s a rather reflexive reaction when you see some lay person “invading” your turf.
            I took it as just a quick reply, with no thought given to how you might, otherwise, have wanted it to appear. Had I been a mistaken professional however… LOL!

          • racerrodig says:

            No harm, no foul…but it’s hot in the shop and man do I smell.

            Which one of BB7 blogs ?? I didn’t see you there. How about the mmp Race pistol drawn one ?

          • Got into a fast draw competition once……….Used a “flesh” colored crayon….

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            I should be on nearly all of them, post a heads up and if I’m there I’ll reply, then we’ll both know. 🙂

          • racerrodig says:

            I’ll head over there now,

          • cielo62 says:

            racer~ WATCH OUT! You might turn into unitron…


          • Been nice without ‘ol Unit LRon around 🙂

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Since he’s been gone several posters have made some nice catches. I’m wondering if several of them would not have been made earlier without him around.

            One thing about him I found very vexing was, when ever anyone seem to be closing in on a critical point, here he would come to hijack the thread with some trivial complaint or other irrelevant disruption. The board and message ques would then quickly fill up with a bunch of meaningless back-and-forth as people took sides on the most trivial issues, while the substance of the thread was lost.

          • Yup….saw that a few times myself…..I wouldn’t say he’s a zidiot ( I have no way of knowing)….To me it was more like his pleasure playing games….and could really give a shit about the case anyway.

          • racerrodig says:

            It’s been far more informative and entertaining without him, there is no doubt.

          • racerrodig says:

            To be honest, everyone knowing where I stand, I was a little put off with that one. Me, and unitron in the same sentence ?? without any reference by me to him being a nut ??

          • cielo62 says:

            Racer- sorry. That was my bad. I don’t even remember the original comment you made but it was detailed. It was meant as a joke. It fell flat. 😦 forgive me, my friend. Unitron was an entire nut harvest. And you called it LONG ago.

            Sent from my iPod

          • racerrodig says:

            No sweat, I love ya more than ever !!

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Hahaha… Heaven Forbid!!!

          • racerrodig says:

            No Chance…..None at all. And I have that self destruct button.

      • cielo62 says:

        Two Sides- DNA? Fluorescent light? Probably matches GZ blood type.

        Sent from my iPod

      • @Nef05

        It’s significant to be included in the crime scene photos.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I meant for my message above to end up below . . . do we know who took the photo or series of crime scene photos?

      • Nef05 says:

        @cielo62 – Maybe we can get racer to give us an opinion on the street oil thing when he pops in. He’s likely to have a pretty informed opinion about what that kind of substance would look like in a given situation, given all his experience. I think dog poo might smear a little darker, but I’m trying not to think about that too much. 🙂

        • cielo62 says:

          Nef05- jut thought I’d throw out some ideas. I walk around my neighborhood with my dog and oil and dog poop are way more common than blood. Maybe paint as well? Not so common but in the realm. We’ll see in late June!

          Sent from my iPod

        • racerrodig says:

          I’ve been busy all day and am 300 + behind. Cue me in and I’ll kook real quick.

      • Nef05 says:

        @SG2 – That’s just what I was thinking in regard to significance. The crime scene photographer was on the scene, seeing everything “in the raw” ; and presumably, relatively experienced as to what needed to be photographically documented.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          The stain on the garage door frame has two rather long drip trails to it. So it looks like quite a quantity of liquid made this stain. I’ve enhanced it for a better view here.

          • racerrodig says:

            it looks like the trail on the left is about to the bottom of the mirror on the car on the right. I’ve got my commercial size magnifying glass out and it looks pretty long. I doubt the rain drove it as the overhang seems deep enough and there is no apparent rain markings on it.

            I’m waiting for a reply to my “pry”

          • cielo62 says:

            Racer- the question still remains about what caused that stain. Did GZ zonk his noggin there? EMT said something about a thrown blunt object. It’s a large roundish stain which is curious. I was expecting more of a streak. Curiouser and curiouser.

            Sent from my iPod

          • racerrodig says:

            This is getting thick. Why didn’t we see this months ago??

    • crazy1946 says:

      This gives more fuel to the theory that there was more than one person involved in the murder! Hmmm, could it be that Mrs. Fogen has more questions to answer? Think for a moment, I realize some think this might prove the prior injuries to Fogen, however, could it not be that someone attempted to duck and hide when the police came on the scene? Ok, back under my rock I go!

    • FactsFirst says:

      STFDOOR!! So is w13 flashlight guy/pictureguy/mmaguy, the person who grabbed a flashlight outta his garage??? WOW… DEEP!

      • FactsFirst says:

        they guy who said he went around the corner and heard a “GUY on the phone it sounded like the guy was on the phone”… OMGOODNESS! I’m loving some LV right now!

        w13’s SPD, FDLE and Florida state attorney’s office interviews

      • OMG! I went to Axiomamnesia and download the audio but how do I put it on video with audio. I do it with music all the time but can’t figure this one out. In the words of Simba—–help, somebody, anybody. *I love Simba* 🙂

        • Xena says:


          I went to Axiomamnesia and download the audio but how do I put it on video with audio.

          If you are using Windows Movie Maker, click add music. You have to make your own “frames” as far as the video goes. If you want to email me the audio, I can put a frame with it, send it back to you, and you can edit from there. I can’t download Axion’s audio.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        SG2 – LLMPapa could tell you.

      • Nef05 says:

        @Facts – just as an FYI – W13 (Jon?) is flashlight/picture guy. W6 (John) is MMA guy. But, yeppers W13 is that guy with the flashlight, first on the scene. Kindof makes you wonder, huh? I’m on board with a lot of you guys who believe that some of these “witnesses” know a whole lot more than they’re saying.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Xena, I think, is coming out with a vid about her discovery, gz says he put his gun away when saw Smith arrive, meaning that he was standing outside with his gun in his hand for three full minutes after he fired the kill shot. These “scaredy cats” who refused to come out before the gun shot, were now coming out and speaking causally with the “unknown” gunman, while he was still holding his gun in his hand. Can there be anything more bogus than that?

          Anyone still wonder why the HOA settled so quickly? Just imagine how quickly you’d want to settle in their position, if you learned that several HOA members might very well be involved and/or charged.

          My guess is you too would quickly decide that would be a chance you could not afford to take. Not with people like Taaffe and MMA guy and Jon “I didn’t know the stranger whose wife I called for him with the number I had on my phone”. RATL sure had a large group of strangers who networked together. SMH

          • Xena says:

            @Lonnie Starr.

            Xena, I think, is coming out with a vid about her discovery, gz says he put his gun away when saw Smith arrive, meaning that he was standing outside with his gun in his hand for three full minutes after he fired the kill shot.

            I have the video completed but am having computer problems, so am on for a few minutes, then off for 30 minutes or longer. I’m taking the computer in tomorrow for repair, which just realized something and made me laugh. I hope that the technician knows the keyboard, because half of the letters are missing. LOL!!

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Well, we’ll be waiting. My evidence pile is experiencing heavy increases in traffic, so I’ll be waiting to add a link or excerpt or embed, promoting it. Thing I like about embeds is, every time someone views an embed a credit/view goes back to the author. and the reader can simply click through to the original if they so desire.
            I’m guessing they like my evidence pile because I pull so much diversity together in one place. Whatever! Good luck on your
            repairs. But if you go on ebay you can find a cheap refurbished
            computer so you can always have a standby. (I only buy from reputable sellers). Good back ups go for about 100, but if you
            wait and watch you can sometimes grab some pretty spectacular bargains for as little a 35.

      • PiranhaMom says:

        @FactsFirst –

        You got it, Facts. W13 is “Jon,” Asian Male (as identified by LE) – see my earlier reply to Leroy.

        Now – was the smear analyzed? Date? Blood? GZ DNA?

        Inquiring minds demand to know …

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Lonnie Starr,

        Beginning at timestamp 6:52 gz refers to Jon with flashlight and says he still had his handgun out
        When the police came, gz says he stood up and holstered his gun and was handcuffed.

        Yet, we know that Jon took a photo of gz seconds before Officer Smith came and, in that photo gz is holding his cellphone to his right ear. (=no gun out to be holstered).

        Something is off with the timing or ???

        Also, of interest is that Serino looks south on RVC at timestamp 1:53 even though gz has been saying he looked across the street (east side of RVC) for an address in reenactment.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      Is that a reclining chair in pic #66? Scenario: fogen for no reason at all (or is checking out free furniture) sits in recliner, reclines back and it dumps him into the bush behind it, lacerating his head….

      • PiranhaMom says:

        @ Leroy, Cielo, Cercando, FactsFirst, et al –

        We have lots of DNA/Blood evidence from the Medical Examiner, including analyses on crime scene items. These were reported as relates to the dead juvenile.

        HOWEVER, there is no reason that FDLE could not have taken scrapings as soon as they saw that photo – or right after shooting that scene. If it was blood, and ID’d with GZ’s DNA, Bernie could be sitting on that evidence almost up to trial – until the last moment he has to release it.

        Did GZ smack himself into that car? Man, that would smart! He would put his hand to his mouth, see if it was bleeding. Smacking himself on the car might also have knocked him back onto the sidewalk – the back of his head connecting.

        He’d head to Jon’s door, then steady himself when he reached the first solid vertical surface, placing his blooded hand by the garage.

        No reason for Bernie to release that evidence … yet …

        It’s not Brady Material, that’s for sure!

        If this all comes true, Bernie must be lovin’ it, sitting in that catbird seat!!!

  6. ladystclaire says:

    @Xena, go the petition @ and take a look at #162, if you haven’t already seen it. I am not a racist and, I resent whoever is maybe trolling this site insinuating that I am.

    I have just as much of a right to “VOICE” my opinion, just like everybody else. just because I speak up about something that is wrong, does not a racist make. I never said or even entertained the thought that Fogen shouldn’t have any supporters but, I just can’t understand how “ANYBODY” can support a person who has killed an innocent child.

    They can support this man all they want but, why do they feel the need to “CRUCIFY” this child with all of their racist hatred? Trayvon was just a child, who just so happen to be walking home from the store, in a neighborhood where just because of the color of his skin, HE WAS STALKED, CONFRONTED AND KILLED BY THIS HEATHEN. the kid was minding his own business and, then his murderer invaded his space.

    If these people want to continue supporting Fogen, even though they know he is a certified liar and murderer, that is their right and it is also their business. but, I will always say that, they don’t have to attack this kid’s character nor that of his family. Trayvon cannot be here to defend himself and, Fogen made damn sure of it. one of the reason he shot and killed this kid was because, he did not want Trayvon to tell LE or his parents, that Fogen was holding him against his will with a gun in his hand.

    NO, I’m not racist because, I am of many different cultures and for me to deny either one of them, would be denying my parents and, I would never do that for anything in the world.

    NO I’m not racist but, I DO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RIGHT AND WRONG! AND WHAT O’mara and west are doing is DEFINITELY WRONG.

    • Rachael says:

      Go look at 142, 143 and 133 too.

    • Xena says:


      @Xena, go the petition @ and take a look at #162, if you haven’t already seen it.

      Oh, I feel soooo important. I would like to thank my producers, screenwriters, and most importantly, my Zidiot fans. Although I do not have a Facebook account, they acknowledge me anyway. 🙂

      Lady, don’t waste your time defending yourself against lies. At times, they have said I am White. At times, they say I’m Black. They will say I’m polka dot if that fits their agenda.

      • bwa ha ha ha ha ha

        Xena, don’t you know you & the professor has gotten in their heads. Girl, you’re badass when they start imitating & writing racist screeds either in your username or about you all over the net.

        • Xena says:


          Xena, don’t you know you & the professor has gotten in their heads.

          If their heads weren’t empty ….. LOL!

      • badass: awesome to an extreme level, thereby leveraging unquestionable authority. Ultra cool & confident.

      • cielo62 says:

        Xena- I’ve always known you were polka dot, but I loves ya anyway! 😉

        Sent from my iPod

        • Xena says:


          Xena- I’ve always known you were polka dot, but I loves ya anyway! 😉

          (Whispering) As long as you don’t tell about the stripes too, we’re okay. LOL!!

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Xena, @ Cielo –

            Relax, Xena. We know you’ve been passing as plaid for years. You’re with friends. We don’t care what clan you are.

            In fact, you’re dashing in pleats.

            When ya’ got it, kiddo, flaunt it!

            Now, about those bagpipes …
            By Gucci? Reaaaaly?

          • Xena says:


            Now, about those bagpipes …

            Just don’t let the Zidiots know there’s a family crest on my license plates. They might get road rage and decide to shoot me. 🙂

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Xena, who loves ya girl? we here at this site ALL LOVE you as well as Professor and Crane-Station. but, I definitely believe there is a Fogen troll on this site or either on the site of Doth Protest Too Much. also, they don’t know what race I am either.

        • Xena says:


          @Xena, who loves ya girl? we here at this site ALL LOVE you as well as Professor and Crane-Station.

          And I love you all back!!!

          but, I definitely believe there is a Fogen troll on this site or either on the site of Doth Protest Too Much. also,

          Could be, but they eventually give themselves away by failing to say anything positive about Trayvon, and also by failing to comment on evidence against GZ.

          they don’t know what race I am either.

          It shouldn’t make a difference and only means something to them when they accuse people of being racist.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Cielo, SouthernGirl2, and Xena,

        I have a question for you three gathered here.

        Is there any chance that we should put the following together and consider them all related to just one incident? —

        from GZ’s 2005 MySpace page:

        “I love the fact that I can still go back home and crash on my boys couch as if i had never left, I can hit my boy up to handle a lil somethin with my sister and he’s at my house with his boys on bikes before i hang up with her! They do a year and dont ever open thier mouth to get my ass pinched.”

        “my lil sista hits like a grown MOTHER FUCKIN MAN!!!!”


        from ManassasPatch, “George Zimmerman was a Victim of Assault in Manasss” by Erin Gibson – March 22, 2012 :

        “The man under fire in the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Florida last month was the victim of an assault that took place in Manassas.
        Manassa City Police Sgt. Eddie Rivera said one-time Manassas resident George Zimmerman was a victim of an assault in 2001, but he was never listed as an offender or suspect.”

        • cielo62 says:

          YAHTC- if it had been his lil sister who assaulted him, I doubt he would have reported it. More likely, he saw her punch someone else to the ground and was impressed. Maybe one of his “boys”.

          Sent from my iPod

        • Xena says:

          @yahtc. The only thing I see in all those events is that GZ was a gang banger. He had made enemies. When a gang member is done wrong, they retaliate. GZ’s gang of thugs was not able to handle REAL street gangs. (Remember Osterman said GZ is not street smart.) At the age of 18, rather than send GZ off to college, his parents sent him off to Florida to live in their future retirement home. Then, they sent his sister off to live with him. No doubt she had been gang initiated.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Thanks for your input, Cielo. It is good to be able to bounce an idea off others and then be able to let it go.

        • cielo62 says:

          YAHTC~ At your service! 🙂   (you know, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a picture of his lil sis. If the assault occurred in VA, when and why did she move to Florida?)

      • Malisha says:

        You know it’s interesting that Fogen was assaulted in Manassas in 2001 and over a decade later, he kills a 17-year-old unarmed kid and then lies to the police, saying that he was violently assaulted by the kid and had to shoot him in self-defense. Very very peculiar.

        A friend of mine, an African American woman in her forties, married a white man in HIS 40s (second marriage for both) and they had a rocky time of it for several years before he divorced her with all kinds of wacko allegations, deliberately got her evicted from their marital residence without notice, stole all her stuff, faked her phone calls using a service called “SPOOF” and showed up to testify in court in an unrelated matter to “show” that her car was not worth its Blue-Book value. THen he conspired with a prior ex-husband to try to do as much damage as possible and sent her pictures of drawings of a dead woman on the floor with knives sticking out of her.

        He told me on the phone over 16 times that when he was in high school he was beaten up by Black kids. He would tell me that in two distinct sentences:

        “When I was in high school I used to get beaten up all the time … [looooooooong pause, sigh, more pause] … and you know by who? … [looooooong pause, sigh, more pause, tiny sob-like sound] … Black kids. UNTIL I learned how to fight.”

        He had told me that during phone calls DURING the marriage and at times when he wanted to make ME his confidante. I was supposed to boo hoo with him about his victimization.

        This guy finally got back at “them” when he was in his 40s, by symbolically beating up a Black woman he had married. He’s still at it; can’t stop himself. He wants her to pay HIS back taxes! He’s completely out of his mind with that infantile impotent rage and a desire to finally come off as the victor.

        Wanna bet Fogen was working off his resentment about an assault by some teen-agers when he was in Manassas, and felt he finally got back at them when he was 28 in Florida? And then those terrible people go and charge him with a CRIME when all he was doing was defending himself (against the memory of those kids who pummeled him when he was 17 and he screamed … like … that … recording … “when he was a teen-ager”). Hunh!

      • smokeegyrl says:

        I reported those numbers to

  7. Average American Patriot


    Putting Trayvon Martin on trial!

    The sad, ultimate fact is George “El Corageous Vigilanto” killed Trayvon Martin.

    The morans defending him, and enablers like Megyn Kelly, want to argue the minutiae of irrelevant facts as if Trayvon’s school records, friends, and even his choice of clothing JUSTIFIES cop-wannabe Zimmerman for shooting him dead.

    The morans defending the gun totting bigot portray him as the VICTIM, as if this kid was actually following poor Zimmerman and stalking him to launch his attack.

    It makes sense. Think about it.

    Eveeeel genius run around the streets, confusing the resident Zimmerman about his location and then, knowing the victim would panic and step out of his vehicle, patiently waited to pounce on the unaware, innocent, good to his mother, VICTIM Mr. bigot, er El Vigilanto Zimmerman.

    bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha

    • Xena says:

      Just posted this on and also Youtube.

      The 40 Ft. Stumble

      • Two sides to a story says:

        “That is not consistent with evidence we know.”


      • Rachael says:

        Thank you!!!

      • Nef05 says:

        Great video, Xena. Illustrates so many of the questions the jury will want answers to, that fogen will not dare take the stand to answer. He’s all caught up, with nowhere to go.

        • Xena says:


          Illustrates so many of the questions the jury will want answers to, that fogen will not dare take the stand to answer.

          Yes. If I understand the professor’s lessons on GZ’s statements, the State can enter them into evidence as long as there is a witness to testify. That might be Singleton and Serino. They were both also at the re-enactment.

          As Lonnie says, Tick, Tock.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Yes it’s a great piece of work, exactly what is needed to stir the imagination. Once BDLR makes it clear that gz claims are conflicted, the jury will find it easy to figure out why gz is not taking the stand.

          The longer MOM drags out the trial, the more time the jury has to mull over the conflicts in gz’s claims of self defense. I know that as a juror, I would certainly want to know why he tells a story about things happening at the T, that the witnesses, phone records, 911 recording and debris field show happened 40 feet away. Of course, once someone informs them of NW rules, and the SP shows that gz was given the 14 hour class on them, the jury will be pretty well satisfied as to what gz is trying to do with his various stories.

          In short gz is toast!
          Tick Tock!

          • racerrodig says:

            “In short gz is toast!
            Tick Tock!” and a muffled III+> Clickety Clank <+III since he won't want his minions to think he's actually been convicted. That "Guilty" verdict is what….just Theatre by the Prosecution.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Exactly, the guilty verdict will be passed off by the defense as O’Mara’s masterful strategy. I can hear
            Rene now: “This masterful stroke of genius allows the pressures of the public spotlight to subside, so that now the defense can get down to the really important and serious work, unfettered by the need to generate daily reports.” ;lol:

          • racerrodig says:

            I can see that, but do you think she knows what “masterful” means.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Xena – POW!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Yes, indeed. Fogen has always has been his own worst enemy, as far as we can see. Maybe a little time off the streets will make his thoughts clearer.

      • cielo62 says:

        Xena- excellent work! Yep, you literally see the “fuck, I’m way off a believable story” When he tries those tiger swipes. What an a$$wipe.

        Sent from my iPod

  8. Racist PUNK chases down a little boy in the dark while uttering effin coons & shoots him in the heart and then steal his last screams as his own. JUSTICE NOW!

    • But his injustice doesn’t stop there. He says its “God’s will” this happened and willfully demonizes his victim with racist stereotypes with no remorse with the hopes of getting away with the murder of a child. He believes he and his wife deserves to have the good life after this. This isn’t just injustice, this is delusional.

      • Deborah says:

        @Leroy Eugene Hudson:

        Fogen shouldn’t even be mentioning the name of God in a sentence. He knows nothing about God’s love or his plan! Lazy Fogen and his lazy wife will never live the “good life.” They will be forever tormented! Fogen is mentally challenged and that is quite obvious.

        With his present history of mental illness and the hypnotics and the amphetmines that he is prescribed and administers to himself, Fogen had no business owning and possessing a gun! He was a drug up psycho that night! Fogen, restrained TM careful not to shot off his other hand, and aimed directly at the heart of this kid to kill him. The fact that he could state this to the detective in a monotone voice, with no emotion sitll enrages me!! He did this maliciously, and withoout provocation! He is a cruel monster who IMO deserves to be charged with M1! He was in no danger when he shot TM! TM had no weapon pointed at him or had him by a wristlock. He is an evil man who is outright lying about what transpired. He and his defense team are only playing to the racist demagogues, inciting them to denounce TM and black males as criminally inclineed, violent prone monsters!

      • ladystclaire says:

        I agree with you Deborah and, every word in your comment is TRUE! these two defense attorneys are VERY GUILTY OF TRYING TO INCITE RACIAL VIOLENCE, between those who support Fogen. them supporting this “HEATHEN” is one thing but, for them to smear the memory and character of a deceased child, who by the way was not doing anything wrong nor was he bothering anybody. yet they chose to conduct a smear campaign against this child and his family.

        George Zimmerman is sitting back on his FAT ASS, LIKE A POTTED PLANT KNOWING HE HAS DONE NOTHING BUT “LIE” ABOUT THE EVENTS OF THAT NIGHT. he know damn well he didn’t shoot this kid in self defense and, who so ever helped him come up with this half baked lie, should be charged with lying to LE during a homicide investigation as well as OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE.

        I have a feeling that the father of this HEATHEN, has got a lot to do with what the defense is doing now as far as putting these fake videos and photos out in the media. had this man and, I use that word very loosely when speaking of him. any way had he allowed this criminal THUG to be held accountable for his past crimes, he just might have turned out to be a better person than what he is today.

        There is not one photo that they have posted in the media, Trayvon Martin. again, had o’mara read the autopsy report he would know this. this man has no morals because if he did, he would not have stooped to the level that he did, in order to make this kid look bad in the eyes of a jury pool.

        If I make no mistake, wasn’t some of the things on Trayvons phone and social media sites suppose to be redacted or sealed just like Fogen’s is? they are the ones wanting to hide Fogen’s shit, yet they have released things from Trayvon that have not a damn thing to do with this case.

        Also, WHY didn’t the prosecution file another motion for a gag order after the one back in October was denied? filing for one now is a moot point IMO. the damage is done.

        • cielo62 says:

          LadyStClaire- I am a Wiccan. We are also called Heathens by people who dont understand the religion. It is used as a pejorative and I don’t appreciate it. Please reconsider your use if it when you blast the GZ team. Thank you.

          Sent from my iPod

          • PiranhaMom says:


            Babe, you’re our kind of Wiccan.
            (As far as I’m concerned, every Wiccan is my kind of Wiccan.)

            Keep The Faith!

          • cielo62 says:

            PMom- thanks! One good thing about the Internet is that now people can learn anything about anything without having to ask a person. Wicca is getting better understood. We have no Satan nor devils at all. The foundation of Wicca is respect for all beings. However, people still use “witch” and “heathen” as pejoratives. A little enlightenment here and there to dispel the myths and misunderstandings is what I’m trying. I would no more call a person a witch (except as a classification, as I myself am a witch) or heathen as I would call someone the N word, or any gay slur. It’s not PC gone crazy. It’s realizing the world is bigger than we know. I never knew the word “greaser” was such an insult in California (the result of a rude lesson from unitron). Back East it’s a slang for a car mechanic. Sure , the pejorative “heathen” bugs me, but we’re grown ups here. I’ll ask and clarify my request. Thanks for the warm support! Blessed be!

            Sent from my iPod

          • PiranhaMom says:


            re: “Wicca is getting better understood. We have no Satan nor devils at all. The foundation of Wicca is respect for all beings.”

            A few thousand years back, I believe there were Druids among my ancestry. They rejoiced in the earth, the sun, the seasons and all the wheeling planets. Being thankful for creation is a great way to start your day and live your life.

            Cielo, I have always considered Wicca to be a religion that respects the earth and all its inhabitants.

            As a witch you are an original “Earth Goddess.”

      • Rachael says:

        “I have a feeling that the father of this HEATHEN, has got a lot to do with what the defense is doing now as far as putting these fake videos and photos out in the media.”

        I don’t doubt it for a moment.

  9. Soulcatcher says:

    Well Ms Stutzman, for the same reason you write write one sided journaliziam on the Zimmerman case, going as far as stating some things as fact, not quoting sources. Money. One way or another these lawyers are getting or will get paid. They aren’t doing it for free, they are getting paid. Right? Just like you are getting paid IMO for writing crap like this. If you wrote unbaised journalism, chances are you wouldn’t attract many readers, thus would remain an unknown and possibly be an unemployed one as well.

    We all realize part of your job is write articles at any means to attract the readers, and your pay is reflected on that. How far you are willing to go to attract readers or should I say cross the line, can be best answered by you. You have to live with it, not us the readers.

    We that ask only that justice be served to a family whose child was taken from them in a horrific manner. As parents, as human
    beings, we feal their pain. When the darkness falls upon them, we feal their tears, and we cry with them. They never had the chance to say good-bye to their son, but someday they will be reunited.

    I am sure you are aware we are not among your admired readers. Those readers stand by George, who believes it was Gods will, and has no regrets. That is not the God we know. Yes God does have a plan, regardless of weather George is aquitted, weather junk jounalism plays a part, it all washes out in the end. You can count on that. You may add that as a bonus to your pay.

    • I just don’t know how a person sleeps at night when the actions they engage in is an effort to cover up the murder of a child. Ms Stutzman must’ve had a very difficult time growing up and if she is single I wouldn’t be surprised. These presumptions if true would explain the contempt she has for recognizing the truth about herself and her actions.

      • Deborah says:

        @Leroy Eugene Hudson:

        Are you freaking kidding me? Have you looked at that woman? What male would look at her? What woman would look at her? I wouldn’t insult my dog comparing her to them! She is not only unattractive on the outside, but she is unatrracive on the inside, and most likely a racist bigot to boot! Her defense of Fogen, only shows what type of journalist she is. She never offers the family of the deceased any type of compassion in the least. It is obvious what side she is on!

      • PiranhaMom says:

        @Leroy Eugene Hudson –

        Renee Stutzman is married and has a cat. I expect her approach to journalism reflects the interests of her editor and publisher.

        She also finds O’Mara a ready and voluble source. The fact that he spouts nonsense and often racially offensive theories is no concern of her newspaper; she simply “reports” it.

        He says it, she types it.

        Bernie de la Rionda, as contrasted to O’Mara, cannot be a “mouthpiece.” He’s restricted. Could Renee call him and get a quote? Yes, although it may be minimal; may even be “we do not discuss this issue before trial.” So, it appears she doesn’t bother.

        If the paper had an investigative reporter who is not required to grind out the daily news, there would be comprehensive coverage of this issue. That reporter could dig out all the available facts (and many not yet available) and deliver a balanced, nuanced and comprehensive report – likely in many parts – to inform the community.

        The newspaper’s management has made an economic decision not to engage an investigative reporter. There is no in-depth coverage.
        Management apparently feels it is delivering what its readership (and don’t forget, local advertisers) want, slanted the way management feels. They like what Renee writes, just fine.

        Crusaders for truth and balance, they are not.

        Leroy, that’s why your intelligent participation here – along with all the great writers and analysts among our students – is so important.

        WE are the balance.

        • cielo62 says:

          PMom- too many people are happy enough with sound bites for news. I’ve lost all taste for local papers now that I’ve dug into this case with intelligent discussion. Too bad the sound bites are all I get from local sources.

          Sent from my iPod

          • PiranhaMom says:


            Newspapers are fading all over the country. We are no longer a “reading nation.” Most readers – few though they may be – cruise the pages to catch the headlines. Few readers read to the end of the story.

            Investigative reporting is expensive. Not only do you need a skilled, inquisitive, analytical writer, but that reporter needs a gofer to search and round up documents. Getting an internet copy is not good enough. You have to learn to tail someone you are profiling. You need a whole cadre of devoted, discreet contacts – who will tell YOU everything, but clam up with everyone else.

            I did this for four years. Exhilarating and exhausting. I was amazed what people would tell me. Didn’t have to ask much – they would initiate the conversations.

            But few papers can afford an investigative team, and unless they win a Pulitzer, there is little appreciation by the reading public.

            It’s a dying art.

          • cielo62 says:

            PMom- yes, it’s a dying art. But more than that, we are losing our 4th Pillar to keep the other 3 in check and balanced. They Who controls the media controls the “truth”. It’s not a mistake that dictators first take over the media. Yes the Internet is full of people reporting everything. But unless it can be verified, we end up with too many Wild Bill lunatics.

            Sent from my iPod

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Cielo –

            re: ” But more than that, we are losing our 4th Pillar to keep the other 3 in check and balanced. They Who controls the media controls the “truth”. It’s not a mistake that dictators first take over the media. Yes the Internet is full of people reporting everything. But unless it can be verified, we end up with too many Wild Bill lunatics. ”

            Agree 1,000% Cielo. But the “non-reading public” — weaned on TV 6-second sound-bites doesn’t care. “Fast info’ is like fast food … quality-wise.

            The First Amendment offers a special level of protection for the press. You get it, Cielo. You definitely get it. It is because the press is the watchdog of government, informing the public that something is amiss. There are barbarians at the gate.

            Ironically, as seasoned reporters are laid off, the ‘lucky’ among them are snapped up as ‘Public Information Officers’ for — government agencies. At twice the paycheck and triple the perks. Their job: covering the government’s ass. Particularly, the errors and misdoings of the agencies’ bureaucrats. And those PIOs are paid with our tax dollars to do this.

            They are very, very good in their jobs, because they spent years biting that ass when it needed a good chomp. They are not press agents now … they are SUPPRESS agents. Everything gets covered up.

            We’ve lost that protection our Founding Fathers treasured.

            That loss is huge.

      • Xena says:

        @Leroy Eugene Hudson.

        Ms Stutzman must’ve had a very difficult time growing up and if she is single I wouldn’t be surprised.

        Not taking up for Rene Stutzman, but I suspect she has been bullied by Zidiots just like many blog administrators have been. Zidiots threaten that unless people support GZ, they will spread lying, defamatory information around about them.

        I am hoping that when this case is over, the truth of Zidiot behavior will come to light.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Leroy — Rene Stutzman is trying to hang on to her job, working for a just-out-of-bankruptcy paper systematically reducing its payroll by dumping seasoned reporters (which she is, believe it or not) in favor kiddos just out of school. The goal is to be more attractive for selling to …. rumor has it the Koch Brothers.

        Sara Ganim, was once an up and coming Tribune Company South Florida reporter for a sister to the Orlando rag. She wisely bailed out, went to a small paper in Pennsylvania and, after breaking story after mindbogglin story on pedophile Jerry Sandusky, she won a Pulitzer.

        Rene Stutzman clearly is more interested in a paycheck than prizes of any nature. If it were any other way she’d have moved on by now. She’s grinding out mundane copy based mostly on quotes and leaks from MOM and that’s it. Apparently her editors and the publisher are satisfied with that. And so far she’s hung on to her job.

        Criticism for her lack of enterprise reporting (or for that matter even getting all the facts right on many of her stories) is fair game.

        Cheap shots about her looks, her gender or her gender peference for domestic bliss are uncalled for and irrelevant.

        For the record, Piranha Mom is correct. Stutzman is married — to a man, no less, for anyone who cares. I don’t.

        • cielo62 says:

          Trained Observer- after explaining Stutzman’s situation, it certainly presents her in a different light. More shabby, pathetic and meaningless. A paycheck to write half truths and outright lies. Maybe she sees a kindred loser spirit in GZ. Even if she can’t produce investigative and deeply researched articles, she could maybe add some compassion for the true victims. Add some balance with the evidence already available. Add a little anything that shows she’s not a total shill for the defense. I’m not swayed. She’s gotten the GZ poison. No integrity at all.

          Sent from my iPod

    • Cercando Luce says:

      I know nothing about Rene Stutzman except that Rene Stutzman self-describes as a law reporter. So why then does the Orlando Sentinel, under Rene Stutzman’s’ byline, only paraphrase or repeat whatever appears on O’Mara’s GZLEGALCASE* website? No insights acquired through experience? No knowledge of admissible evidence? Forgot the DNA test results? No commentary on defense strategy? Nothing?
      That’s why this journalist is SO mediocre.

      *Rhymes with “sleazy legal case”– pure coincidence, just satin’

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Alas, there was once a time with the press and the media were not trusted. To gain people’s trust they had to tell the truth and so exposing fraud was part of their job. Then came the competition, where news people who told the biggest lies were the most sensational, and people gravitated towards the sensational to keep themselves amused. Needless to say, there was no longer any money to be made in telling the truth or exposing frauds. Instead, the money was in perpetuating frauds and telling lies, so that’s what we have as our media today. They depend for their survival on being able to fool the public and judging by their stock prices they’re doing a commendable job. That the people and democracy, the rule of law and justice aren’t served, is a matter they are not paid to care about.

      If the media conglomerates were broken up, and not allowed to grow beyond a certain size, there would be no point in the monied or powerful fraudsters to pander to them or buy them out, because there would be too many “mouths to feed”, so they’d have to go back to depending on their credibility and reliability and their ability to discover fraud, to survive. But, believe me, that’s not about to happen anytime soon.

  10. BillT says:

    maybe some problem exists? a couple of days ago when i posted it didnt have my name info so i used BillT….i dont know if i had been using my whole name or not? Bill Taylor is my real name and all of these BillT posts awaiting moderation were made by me…look at the email addy please to confirm.

  11. boyd says:

    no worries, people are not that stupid. Trayvon would never have run away based on MOM so-called evidence.

    if you elect to let Zimmerman walk it’s got to make sense.

    one cannot say I thought he was thief now I thought he was a bad guy because my lawyer gave me these pictures. now your taking evidence and twisting it in your favor. Is this no differnt than a rapist claiming she worked as a go-go dancer 3 months ago.

    zimmemran told police 3-4 times about thefts in the neirghborhood, what’s that have to do with staged fights, pictures of marijuabna plants and talk about possible air guns, xbox, of marigjuan purchase sizes.

    • cielo62 says:

      Boyd- and let’s not forget that GZ did NOT know who Trayvon was before that night. It therefore doesn’t matter how “bad” Trayvon was, GZ had no way of knowing any of it. And without forensic proof of violence, the rest is all useless caca.

      Sent from my iPod

  12. Ty Flair says:

    I can’t wait for O’mara to explain why Trayvon have no DNA from fogen with all that blood fogen claim he had on his face. That is the million dollar question to me. Someone is covering your mouth and grabing your head and bashing it to the cement you would have alot of DNA on the hand between the fingers and under the finger nails.

  13. BillT says:

    it is reasonable to state that omara is indeed jury tampering since this came out AFTER the jury summons went out.

  14. I thought that photo of TM’s middle finger was proven false.

    So if it is false, M’OM publishing it in the evidence dump in the hopes of corrupting a jury pool would be condemnable.

    • ay2z says:

      Has anyone tried to tae a photo with an object like a hand, closer than the body position? The flash would be brighter the closer the subject is.

      That seems a likely explanationion of the difference in exposure of the closer hand.

      • BillT says:

        NO it doesnt, in any way, that is an obvious photo shop because EVERY element in the pictures are identical, he could not move his hand and not alter at least some tiny placing of his head and the rest of his body.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Not only is the hand to big, at the pixel level you can see where it’s been cut out and pasted in. The pixels don’t blend, the show themselves to be different from the background, with straight edges and mismatched blocks.

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @Lonnie –


          “Not only is the hand to big, at the pixel level you can see where it’s been cut out and pasted in. The pixels don’t blend, the show themselves to be different from the background, with straight edges and mismatched blocks.”

          Can some computer whiz out there enlarge a portion of the composite to show us the chopped-off pixels?

          This would make for a devastating exhibit!

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Well, the simple “quick n’ dirty” effort failed, the software simply blended the pixel in the blow up, I’ll try again later to see what else might be done.

    • Rachael says:

      Becaue he is a sleazy liar. The outhouse refuse sent it to him, so he publishes it. He doesn’t even bother to find out if it is real or not. Even if he knew it was fake, he wouldn’t care.

      I can’t even think of the words I want to say right now I am so pissed off at him. I want to fake pictures of his wife in bed with someone else or something and pass it around and see how HE likes it.

      • ay2z says:

        You are right, he doesn’t care except he cares to make use of it.

        But I thought that came from Trayvon’s phone, how did anyone get the images onto Trayvon’s phone after the night of Feb 26th? Especially the idiots over at the tree yard.

      • There’s was a movie where they took a surprise picture of the “jock” character when he was naked and he had a real tiny, and I mean tiny penis. The thing of it is, every time I see that actor I imagine the tiny penis even though I know it can’t be true. Nothing is that small. BUUUUUUUT THE DAMAGE HAS BEEN DONE and the image is in my head… no homo, not that their is anything wrong with that.

      • Malisha says:

        You wouldn’t need a fake picture of that.

      • Malisha says:

        Rachael, my comment got misplaced but what I meant was that you wouldn’t need to fake that picture of O’Mara’s wife…

        Someone downloaded text messages and a few “sext messages” from a few Florida phones and guess what! And guess with whom! And guess how big and all like that — but then stop guessing, because you really sholdn’t…

        Tweet Tweet Tweet (that’s the sound of a little birdie telling me)

    • ay2z says:

      So, there’s greater weight to these photos in demonizing the victim if they are falsified rather than not?

      What they are, is out of context, and carefully placed in the public realm for just this kind of discussion.

      MOM puts a potted pot seedling in the photo set, puts red liquid, in the photo set, puts smoke in the mouth of the victim, in the photo set, and we all connect the dots to illicit drug use.

      We have bought into it. And given value to the defense demonization even though, at worst all these photos add up to nothing useful.

      We are trying to say they are not demonizing a victim because they are faked or not this or not that bad, illegal or goon gun thing? By that logic, what if the photos are unaltered. What difference does that make? We still have no context, but what if it’s all Trayvon’s stuff?

      What then? Do we buy into the picture the defense wants to portray and do we accept these photos as ‘evidence’ of a person’s image to be concerned about?

      • Rachael says:

        I don’t see them as the same thing. Of course they mean nothing even if they are all Trayvon. Not a goddamned thing and he knows it. And using pictures and texts one would find on any 17-year-old boy’s phone to paint them out to be something they aren’t is despicable. As well as stupid because a picture of a 17-year-old kid with smoke in his mouth, a picture of pot plants means nothing. But we know why he’s doing it.

        IOW, posting contents of a kids phone is jury tampering.

        However, if he is posting things that are not real in order to sway people’s opinions, THAT IS FRAUD!!!

        But either way, IT IS WRONG!!!!

    • Rachael says:

      Leroy Eugene Hudson – You ask, “So if it is false, M’OM publishing it in the evidence dump in the hopes of corrupting a jury pool would be condemnable.”

      Regardless if it is real or false, yes, he is putting it out there in hopes of corrupting a jury pool.

      But either way, it is stupid. If it isn’t true, he is sending false stuff out there that Trayvon cannot defend himself against – and if it is true, who gives a crap if a 17-year-old has a picture of himself flipping a bird? How does that show a propensity towards violence?

      You can probably find that in ANY kid’s phone.

      I have a picture of ME doing it in mine.

      And I have NEVER been a violent person. . .UNTIL NOW!!!!

      Oh – thanks for the heads up. I better get that picture out of my phone in case something happens to MO’M because if they come look at my phone and see a picture of me that was taking 2 years ago extending my middle finger, I could be a suspect.


      • tonydphotog says:

        Rachel – don’t forget to take out any photos with a red beverage. You don’t want anyone to think you’re into the “drank”! 🙂

    • tonydphotog says:

      Pretty much every photo that the defense has submitted as evidence is manipulated, or fake.

      I kinda laugh at the obvious attempts to remove fogen’s double chin! Seems he’s more concerned with his appearance, than he is with the M2 charge. Not surprising, though.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        I wonder if a remedy like being able to ask jurors if they’ve seen certain pictures and other false material the defense has released, and if they answer yes, then show the jurors it’s false?

        Oh wait, MOM’s put this stuff in his court documents, so of course, that means that during the trial, the prosecutor can pass these fake pictures around to the jurors then ask his witness if the pictures are real or fake, and what the defense is hoping to show by using them.

        OMG, MOM’s done such a terrible job of lawyering, the defense can’t even risk trial. Since he’s made it impossible to believe that the defense believes it has any defense. gz can’t take the stand on his own behalf and MOM can’t face trial without being unmasked as a fraud. None of which would have happened if MOM had not gone after Trayvon. What goes around comes around eh? Tick Tock.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      The hand has been pasted in! Also it’s the wrong size, it’s a hand that is at least three times larger than it should be.

  15. Trained Observer says:

    “These two lawyers are fortunate that I am not Judge Nelson because I would jail them for contempt of court and file complaints against the bar association requesting their disbarment from the practice of law.” — Frederick Leatherman

    In lieu of immediacy on that, I am hoping Judge Nelson coldly rips them a couple of new ones, mentioning the possibility of above, all the while doing nothing that would postpone the June 10 trial start. She can jail their sorry butts later.

  16. Anyone noticed the alleged photo O’Mara released of Trayvon giving the finger? The hand is much lighter than the rest of the body. That’s a photoshopped finger! How in the world can a hand that’s exposed everyday be LIGHTER than a person’s chest & body? My kids are fair skinned and their legs & feet are MUCH lighter than their hands. Notice the color of the hand holding the gun and the color of the finger shooting the bird? GTFOOH Mark O’Mara.

    • Its fake from what I know about it. You hit it right on the money.

      • Another thing besides the difference in color. The hand doesn’t match the body. It’s way too big for this kid’s frame. Somebody need to go to JAIL!

      • Rachael says:

        Like I said yesterday:

        “AFAIK, the maximum penalty for conviction on jury tampering and obstruction of justice is 10 years imprisonment and a $250,000 fine on each count.

        Well let’s see now, they sent out 500 notices for jury duty – That is 5,000 years and $125,000,000.00.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Its fake from what I know about it. You hit it right on the money.

          Yeppers, it’s a fake alright. If you examine the two pictures you can tell that they are both exact copies of one another, with the only differences being there’s a slight shift, one is a bit darker than the other, and, of course, the added hand.

          Thus, both pictures depict the same event and had to be taken at the exact same time. Even though the person has lifted their right hand to throw the finger, the body has not shifted as much as one millimeter. Who can do that? Go ahead, try and take two pictures of yourself and move your arm between takes. Then look at the body against the background and see if you’ve shifted position. No matter how hard you try, you’re simply not going to be able to do it. Not to mention that for these purposes it simply would not be worth the bother.

          Thus the hand is super imposed over the old photo. At the pixel lever you can see traces of the blocks being mismatched where they were cut an pasted. Also, for Trayvon’s hand to be that size, his arm would need to be about 6 feet long to get his hand that close to the camera. 😆

          Don’t worry, experts will be chiming in to discredit this and other photos in O’Mara’s attempt at jury tampering. Putting the entire defense reciprocal discovery in question. Imagine if the media picks up on that? O’Mara’s credibility would be totally ruined worldwide. I doubt he could keep his license.

          • racerrodig says:

            They must sit around Moron’s office and let Fogen come up with shit.

            “…um I know, lets get that picture of that rap guy and cut and paste a guy flipping the bird, yeahhhh, that’s the ticket. Everybody will know it’s proof I was attacked. Then we can find a picture of a a black hand holding a pistol, and everybody will think he was a thug”

          • dianetrotter says:

            What is that scar up by the left shoulder? That was never reported as a marking on TM’s body I don’t think.

          • Xena says:


            What is that scar up by the left shoulder? That was never reported as a marking on TM’s body I don’t think.

            Scars on both shoulders were reported in the ME’s report. They appear to be burns. Remember, Trayvon saved his dad’s life by dragging him out of a burning house.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            You hit the nail on the head. IIRC there were two “doppelgangers” for Trayvon, one found in Philadelphia and the other in NYC. This must be one of them. This pink on the shoulder is either the result of a burn that hasn’t completely healed or a skin disorder that removes pigment from black skin in different areas. Trayvon has none of that so this must be one of his look-a-likes.

            O’Mara is going to get himself roasted for not only releasing and promoting irrelevant and immaterial data that should not have been released at all, but for not vetting it to ensure that what he was releasing was not false and therefore highly prejudicial without being probative.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Oops, I forgot about the scars Trayvon picked up when rescuing his father. Yes, burns on black people tend to turn be pink for a good long time. Still that hand is more likely added than not, because the head, expression and angles don’t change as it probably would for throwing the bird by moving an arm.

  17. ay2z says:

    Digging into O’Mara’s interest and acceptance and in particular ‘expertise’ with media to take this case.

    NBC lavished high praise for the new defense lawyer (before NBC was sued by the lawyer’s new client)

    Zimmerman’s new attorney: Who is Mark O’Mara?

    By Miranda Leitsinger, Staff Writer, NBC News

    …a “fearless” lawyer and a “renaissance man.”

    ….also has clocked time in front of the television cameras, serving as a legal analyst for local station WKMG Channel 6, where he commented on high-profile cases, including the Casey Anthony case and even the Martin one

    ….“He’s a brilliant lawyer,” O’Mara’s longtime friend and civil attorney Joseph Flood told,……

    “I think he’ll be able to manage both the criminal prosecution side, … but also just as importantly he’ll be able to manage the media side of it.

    “He will come up with the best defense that Mr. Zimmerman is entitled to get.”

    From 1982-1984, O’Mara was an assistant state attorney in the Seminole County State Attorney’s Office after graduating from Florida State University College of Law, Tallahassee. He has been an active member of the Central Florida Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, according to a former president of the group, Melissa Vickers.

    “He’s very well respected. … He’s a great trial attorney,” she told “They’re in very good hands.”

    Contrast that with the present president of the CFA of Criminal Defense Lawyers said about the only reason to release the texts and photos etc to the media, was to influence jurors.

    The media use, what secrets does O’Mara know, to win a case using the media specifically?

    The national conference of criminal defense lawyers was held in Florida during the Casey Anthony pre-trial death penalty case grounwork and presentation topics included media and some of this was leaked in full audio recording form, by one of the criminal defense lawyers who worked as a prominent media legal analyst.

    Juror influence, use of the modern media, could have even been a theme of the conference in light of the high profile Anthony case, who knows. The leak was capped and the lawyer analyst, was criticized by his hollegues.

    We saw Jose Baez’s defense speculate on child abuse of defendant by her father, played for a year or more publicly, and we heard Baez’s opening statement, accuse the defendant’s father of specific and detailed sexual abuse of the defendant, for which there wasn’t a scintilla of evidence to back it up, presented at trial. Yet the jury bought the concept and not only found the defendant not guilty of murder, not even a lesser included charge was used.

    We also saw how the media was hyped, with fights with the granparents playing out like a soapopera on the evening news, rediculous Jerry Springer like actions that are paralleled in the rediculous rants and tweets and letters of the Zimmerman family that defy logic, except for one thing. Media attention and continuing that attention at any costs.

    Now with the attention drawn and held, O’Mara has now hit the media with visual images and texted words, to portray a murdered victim of a violent death at the hands of a client with proven anger management and substance abuse problems, as a violent black male.

    The proverbial bell is rung, the photos seen and the texts read or read about, the images can not now be erased.

    This worked in the Anthony case, and next comes the jury selection process, and if granted 6 weeks continuence for the trial, will we next have a prime time viewing of a test jury and their reactions to selectied evidence edited for the use of the defense? That might be the next level of jury informing.

    If O’Mara wins this, it will be mastery of media? Is this the future?

    • ay2z says:

      Correction to ‘the images can not be erased’. After viewing Papa’s latest video, the jury tainting can not be erased, but it can be OVERWRITTEN!!

      Can’t stop the tactics, but we CAN add a new layer over top in any potential jurors so they have a more balanced image in their minds.

      Brilliant, LLMPapa. This is the answer.

    • Rachael says:

      and a “renaissance man.”

      I just peed my pants.

      • ay2z says:

        Yeah, like they had Twitter and personal killer’s websites to sway the pillars of justice in their favor. I don’t think for a second that what O’Mara is doing is practicing the high form of his profession. He probably sees himself as at the crest of a new renaissance within the legal system, trash and burn style.

        This is going to turn people off from the system of justice that allows this to happen. Judge Nelson allowed this without putting any form of control in place.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        “He probably sees himself as at the crest of a new renaissance within the legal system, trash and burn style.”

        And of course, what goes around comes around.

    • Rachael says:

      No it will not be mastery of media, it wi be mastery of lies and deception usi.g the media.

    • Jun says:

      All we can do is wait and see

      I think every criminal defense lawyer has tried shit like this to be honest

      Does it always work?


      Arias tried it and it did not work

      Marissa tried it and it did not work

      A man tried it, having pulled a gun on teenagers and claiming they were all smoking marijuana in Florida, and it did not work

      The comic book store murder defense lawyers tried attacking people over marijuana and the jury saw right through it and did not see it as evidence but simply the defense lawyers were just being jerks

      One of Corey’s cases, was a old man who pulled a gun on kids and shot at their feet with the gun, claimed a bunch of stories against the kids he threatened and the old man lost and is doing 20 years

      I personally feel Omara is going to prison after the trial

      All of Fogen’s history is out there too, do not forget that

      All Omara has are photos and texts which may be phony or he is twisting it without having any proof of a real conclusion

      Omara can’t unring the bell on the fact that:

      1) Fogen freely admitted and showed he began stalking and targeting Trayvon

      2) Fogen showed he was angry and even his friends admit he was angry and was not gonna take it anymore

      3) Fogen freely admitted that he scared the kid into running away from him and he was angry that Trayvon tried to run away from him, beginning close by the clubhouse

      4) Fogen freely admitted that he got out of his car to pursue a kid with a gun, as the kid was running away from him.

      5) Fogen has a history of targeting black people and as well as threatening and harassing residents.

      6) The altercation that Fogen instigated, began at the clubhouse and Fogen ended up over 500 feet from the clubhouse, where he was seen and heard by witnesses confronting, threatening, and attacking and killing Trayvon and this was after admitting that he scared a kid into running away from him, Fogen was angry about it, and Fogen decided to get out his car and go after this kid, Fogen did this with a car and a gun

      7) Omara can easily proven to be a liar with all of his public media statements which are all contradictory and consistent and Fogen is heard on a jailhouse call stating that Omara was part of the money and passports scheme and lying to the court

      Also, if Omara felt he had anything, he would not continually ask for a continuance

  18. ay2z says:

    Review of Mark O’Mara’s acceptance of this case. He does not intend to lose this case, for client NOR HIMSELF. He’s got to have something riding on it as he apparently agreed to work for free.

    Orlando Sentinel article, complete text, no pics or video.

    Why did Mark O’Mara take George Zimmerman case for free?

    5:56 p.m. EST, May 8, 2012|
    By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel

    Orlando attorney Mark O’Mara jumped into the George Zimmerman murder case, agreeing to defend one of the most reviled men in America for free.

    Why did he do it? Why have other lawyers agreed to represent social pariahs — at no charge?

    Orlando attorney J. Cheney Mason took on the case of child-murder suspect Casey Anthony, eventually donating more than 1,200 hours, which he estimates was more than $600,000 worth of his time.

      • Rachael says:

        From your article:

        “By his estimation, several Central Florida lawyers werequalified to defend Zimmerman, but “I really felt I had a skill set to address this case better than most people I know,” he said. “That sounds really egotistical.”

      • Trained Observer says:

        What bull. But it takes a BS artist to rep a lying dunce of a BSer. MOM overestimates his own talents.

      • cielo62 says:

        ay2z~ as a tax write-off?

      • Romaine says:

        From your artical:
        “By his estimation, several Central Florida lawyers were qualified to defend Zimmerman, but “I really felt I had a skill set to address this case better than most people I know,” he said. “That sounds really egotistical.”

        O’Mara is no longer working for free. Late last month, he discovered $150,000 was remaining from $200,000 that Zimmerman had raised via a homemade website and PayPal account. Zimmerman already had used some of the money for living expenses, O’Mara said.

        Until then, he thought Zimmerman was broke. In fact, he had written but not yet filed a motion asking Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester Jr. to declare his client indigent for costs, meaning he wanted the state to pay all defense-related costs except for his fee — such things as hiring an investigator, paying for transcripts, hiring experts.

        He now expects to be paid. “I’m a businessman,” O’Mara said.”

        Guess that office remodeling was part of mister lawyer mans payment

  19. ay2z says:

    (this is not your train, fogen, yours has a different tune)

    Songwriter Sheryl Crow
    I’ve wept for those who suffer long
    But how I weep for those who’ve gone
    Into rooms of grief and questioned wrong
    But keep on killing
    It’s in the soul to feel such things
    But weak to watch without speaking
    Oh what mercy sadness brings
    If God be willing

    There is a train that’s heading straight
    To heaven’s gate, to heaven’s gate
    And on the way, child and man,
    And woman wait, watch and wait
    For redemption day

    Fire rages in the streets
    And swallows everything it meets
    It’s just an image often seen
    On television
    Come leaders, come you men of great
    Let us hear you pontificate
    Your many virtues laid to waste
    And we aren’t listening

    What do you have for us today
    Throw us a bone but save the plate
    On why we waited til so late
    Was there no oil to excavate
    No riches in trade for the fate
    Of every person who died in hate
    Throw us a bone, you men of great

    There is a train that’s heading straight
    To heaven’s gate, to heaven’s gate
    And on the way, child and man,
    And woman wait, watch and wait
    For redemption day

    It’s buried in the countryside
    It’s exploding in the shells at night
    It’s everywhere a baby cries

  20. smokeegyrl says:

    My post is hanging up there waiting for the moderation okay. I signed up for WordPress. I just want to let everyone know that I was their next target of bullying which happened today for an hour, I mean verbally bullied by the Fagan supporters. Someone hacked into my computer and stole my family’s information, pictures, and I don’t know how they did that one but they did. I had everything on lock down… They couldn’t see my profile had to deactivate her Facebook account since when I it since the beta testing days. My user name at that time was #7. They chose to target me because of the Petition and how hard I fought to support Trayvon Martin. There is only 150 signatures. Please sign the petition. Now I fear for my safety and my family. But I will Stand Strong in what I believe. They will knock me down, maybe out of facebook but not anywhere else. Please follow me on WordPress. I have my first post and it is the same as the one hanging in limbo up there somewhere. lol

  21. kllypyn says:

















    • Rachael says:

      No, they really shouldn’t, because they are not that kind of people. They have dignity and grace. They are not outhouse refuse.

      It won’t help anything for them to act like the disgusting creatures the defense is.

      • kllypyn says:

        i know i was just venting i realized after i posted it that i should take out that part. but there’s no edit botton

      • Rachael says:

        I kind of figured that, and I don’t blame you. It is maddening. And I totally applaud them for their grace and dignity. I would not be able to do it – I’m not able to now myself. But I don’t have to. And I won’t. And I will not be quiet. And if MO’M doesn’t like it, he can come over here and say it to my face!!! He may think he is a big man for kicking a dead kid, but I am not a kid and I am not dead and he doesn’t want to deal with ME!!!~!

      • ladystclaire says:

        I agree! those creatures are really the ones who are running this case for the defense and, for O’mara and west to permit this, well it speaks volumes for them. and, as for the family of the defendant to wallow with the filth that is the refuse and, we all know what refuse is don’t we? the Fogen family fit right in with the rest of the SHIT!

    • ladystclaire says:

      Kelly, I am so sorry that happened to you because, no man has the right to put his hands on a woman in that way. as for why the media is not asking questions about the things you’ve questioned is because, Trayvon was AA and, racism in this country is here to stay and it will do just that, as long as parents and grand parents continue to pass down racial hatred to their children/grand children.

      As far as a lot of people who have that mindset is concerned, the life of AA is worth nothing. this is what they have been taught from generation to generation. these very same people would be screaming for the death penalty, had Fogen shot and killed a 17 year old white child and they know damn well they would.

      They don’t care that Fogen is lying about the events of that night and, another sad aspect about this issue if the fact that, some of the neighbors saw and heard more than they are willing to tell because, IMO they were involved in this murder in some way. if they weren’t, then why the hell don’t they tell everything that they know about what really went down that night?

      Every last one of them have lied and, they are also keeping something back.

      • kllypyn says:

        i’m not a woman.

        • cielo62 says:

          Kllypyn- LOL! Well with just initials, it’s hard to know. I use my real 1st name and people STILL don’t get it right! 🙂

          Sent from my iPod

      • kllypyn says:

        i got that a lot in high school. Sometimes i wished my mother had named me kevin.

      • ladystclaire says:

        oops sorry and, please forgive me.

      • Rachael says:

        Don’t feel bad, my name used to be Gavin. And I AM a woman.

      • texad says:

        @ ladystclaire

        Ditto. As much as I would like to not think about racism, it is a reality. And to not acknowledge it could be hazardous to my health and the health and safety of people I care about.

        I like the words of Neely Fuller, Jr., who wrote a couple of books on racism, code words, and counter-racist tactics:

        “If you do not understand White Supremacy (Racism), What it is, and how it works-everything else that you understand will only confuse you.”

    • Jun says:

      Some people are fucked up or have a weird sense of humor

      There’s no reason to be that dense and hateful

  22. ay2z says:

    Who is Witness 25? Two photos named Witness 25 fromTrayvon’s phone are in the defense dump.

    • JustMe says:

      Witness #25 is Trayvon’s cousin. What purpose those picture have, no idea other than to put Trayvon’s cousin on trial too. The more the merrier I guess. smdh

      • ay2z says:

        Thanks. Could be the defense has zero use for Witness 25 and added every name they could find to their own late and long list, mostly copying the state’s list plus coffee room sink from the SPD station.

  23. ay2z says:

    The disgusting continues as WESH reports for the defense again.

    Zimmerman’s defense claims Martin was hostile, angry

    Court filing states text messages include angry exchanges

    UPDATED 9:23 AM EDT May 25, 2013

    SANFORD, Fla. —Defense attorneys claimed Saturday that Trayvon Martin was hostile and angry on the day of his fatal confrontation with George Zimmerman.

    In a new court filing, Zimmerman’s defense team said text messages on Martin’s phone reflected angry exchanges with a teenage girl known only as Witness No. 8 in the hours prior to the shooting.

    The defense attorneys said the exchanges are relevant because Martin’s hostile attitude could explain why he allegedly chose to hide and confront Zimmerman instead of going home.

    Witness No. 8 has stated under oath that Martin was scared of Zimmerman, which paints Zimmerman as the aggressor.

    • ay2z says:

      Court clerk open on Saturday?

    • Rachael says:

      “chose to hide and confront Zimmerman instead of going home.”

      How stupid a thing to say!!!! Ok, so we know he saw GZ watching him, but why would Trayvon hide and think GZ was going to come after him to begin with? I mean what, hide in case the dude gets out of his car because he doesn’t remember the street address??!!!

      • ay2z says:

        Rachael, that was exactly the conclusion by the cardboard and bullshit forensic expert. But of course, we saw how that expert’s timeline was blown apart by LLMPapa’s critique.

      • Rachael says:

        “This crazy old dude is watching me – I’m going to hide in case he comes after me because if he does, I’m going to attack him.” Well if that happened, yeah – I would too!!!!

    • Rachael says:

      How the ef does he know trayvon was hostile and angry that night? Was he here? Did he talk to him? So if you have an angry exchange with you are hostile and will attack someone?? WTF? And hdare he lie and say he doesnt get ideas from the outhouse. This is the shit they were saying last week and no one else would say/ think anything so stupid so i’m sure he didn’t come up with it on his own. But why would he take advice from such racist refuse?

    • O’Mara is pushing the Trayvon was angry meme. Pray tell, then why did he run away from his night stalker? That dog don’t hunt, Mark O’Mara.

    • Xena says:

      The defense attorneys said the exchanges are relevant because Martin’s hostile attitude could explain why he allegedly chose to hide and confront Zimmerman instead of going home.

      That’s bigotvoyent theory, because how would Trayvon know GZ would follow him on foot, where he would go, and which way he would return? If Trayvon had wanted to confront GZ, he had plenty of opportunity to do that as GZ followed and glared from his truck.

      • JustMe says:

        I read all the exchanges between DD and Trayvon. I found nothing resembling a continuous heated exchange between the two of them that day. So where is O’Desperate coming up with this BS? Could there be repercussions from this lie that was nationally televised?

        In fogen’s own statements he confirms Trayvon never said a word to him let alone an angry confrontation other than the made up BS he claims at the T. I also want to point out that forgen conveniently leaves out the loud moving argument the ear witnesses heard that moved from the side of the homes to around the back. He also claims he went immediately down at the T in his interrogation and then claims he started flailing his arms in his reenactment when he realizes he is so far off his mark and where Trayvon’s body was found.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Yep, we know that O’Haha has a penchant for making things up. So far he’s gone over a year without finding a shred of support for any of the claims that he made. Who spends an entire year claiming to have exculpatory evidence sufficient to win an immunity (SYG) hearing, the abandons it altogether just weeks before trial, and claims that to be “strategic”? How is going to hell for eternity “strategic”???

          Thugbloat had better get ready for “Freddie”, ’cause he’s on a fast track to jail. Tick Tock.

          • cielo62 says:

            Lonnie- I like the name Ramrod Jenkins. Yep. GZs new cell mate.

            Sent from my iPod

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            😆 Hahahaha… good one!

          • racerrodig says:

            His moves are as strategic as punting on 1st down…..after the opening kick off, or taking last place in a 500 mile race intentionally to “save the engine for the next race”

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            OH YEAH, MOM’s saving the good stuff for the appeal! What a strategy, eh? 😆

          • racerrodig says:

            “… MOM’s saving the good stuff for the appeal! What a strategy, eh? :lol:..”

            Yep, why don’t all lawyers try that.

            I’m listening to Nancy Grace rip on Fogen on TV in the shop. I was a bit down on her for awhile for being a bit “over the top”

            She’s ripping Frank Taaffe who just stated Fogen was in self defense mode because Trayvon has a propensity for fighting. He also stated he works with teens in MJ recovery and Trayvon was in THC withdrawal !!!!!!!!!!!!!

            A hahahahahahahaha I just stated an hour or less ago where is Taaffe et al !!

            He’s working with teens and much as Fogen mentored black kids.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Just reminded me, I haven’t finished watching the hearing. I did catch Taaffe in the court room yesterday though.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Gotta love the 5 suspenseful seconds in the “re-enactment” where he looks towards where he killed the boy, and then says “That’s when I started yelling for help.”

    • elcymoo says:

      ay2z says:
      May 25, 2013 at 9:43 pm
      The disgusting continues as WESH reports for the defense again.

      Zimmerman’s defense claims Martin was hostile, angry

      Court filing states text messages include angry exchanges

      UPDATED 9:23 AM EDT May 25, 2013

      SANFORD, Fla. —Defense attorneys claimed Saturday that Trayvon Martin was hostile and angry on the day of his fatal confrontation with George Zimmerman.

      In a new court filing, Zimmerman’s defense team said text messages on Martin’s phone reflected angry exchanges with a teenage girl known only as Witness No. 8 in the hours prior to the shooting.

      The defense attorneys said the exchanges are relevant because Martin’s hostile attitude could explain why he allegedly chose to hide and confront Zimmerman instead of going home.

      Witness No. 8 has stated under oath that Martin was scared of Zimmerman, which paints Zimmerman as the aggressor.
      What about GZ’s admission during an interview with the SPD that he was ‘frustrated’, and Frank Taafee’s comments that ‘he was mad as hell, and wasn’t going to take it any more’? GZ’s own comments on that NEN tape were pretty hostile, too: ‘**holes’ who ‘always get away’, and ‘f’ing punks’ – if ‘punks’ WAS what he said.

      • Rachael says:

        “The defense attorneys said the exchanges are relevant because Martin’s hostile attitude could explain why he allegedly chose to hide and confront Zimmerman instead of going home.”

        Well AFAIC, the are totally IRRELEVANT because that would be total speculation and Trayvon isn’t here to say anything about it and TRAYVON IS NOT ON TRIAL!

        But GZ is alive and HE is the one on trial for KILLING Trayvon. As elcymoo says, HE needs to explain “he was mad as hell, and wasn’t going to take it any more” and HIS VERY OWN WORDS about the azzles who always get away, the effn *oons!

        This trial is about GZ, NOT about Trayvon and the sooner the defense realizes it and acts accordingly, the better chance they have of defending their client. He can’t think he can kick puppies and people will pay any attention to him, can he? Show me you and your client are men, not the putrid bullies you already appear to be!!!

        I don’t know about the conduct of Trayvon that day. Again, it would be speculation – but I do know of the contact of the defendant and the defence since that day and I am NOT impressed.

      • boyd says:

        MOM is hoping to scare BDLR. No worries, what MOM calls evidence is far fetched speculation. Let’s the the video of the angry kid from the 7-11. see easy to blow his crap out of the water.

        meanwhile let’s look at george’s BFF. 0h he too happens to have a protection order filed against him. Good guys stick together.

        I pray BDLR unloads all the evidence on George.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        MOM is feeding the public but, there is no foundation for his claims, so they’ll never be presented to the jury.

        Here’s the way it’s going, MOM is building a high hurdle for the defense to climb. The prospective jurors will hear that there’s all this exculpatory evidence just waiting for them to hear it. So, if they get on the jury with this kind of information in their heads, they’ll be expecting to hear it.

        Now, when they don’t begin hearing this stuff, and the SP successfully attacks what little is presented. Then, on top of it gz’s character gets caught up in the fray, because the defense is pushed to the limits of desperation. The jury learns of gz’s character defects! At that point in time, MOM’s lost everything, he has no choice but to either fold or put gz on the stand in a last ditch attempt to salvage something.

        Of course, all during the trial the SP will keep the jury informed of the kinds of things that bar gz from testifying in his own behalf. Once the jury learns of “the 40.5 foot punch”, they’ll keep looking over at gz, expecting him to keep his eyes diverted away. [No, that’s not a duplicate, “diverted” is a physical instruction, while “away” is a psychological thing”. Something like “It was a dark and stormy night,” where the “dark” was the psychological “color”, while the “stormy night” was merely a physical description.]

        But, not looking at the jurors is the best gz can do, because, in light of the evidence being presented, any direct looks he gives them will appear to be “brazen” rather than pleading innocence.

        • racerrodig says:

          40.5 foot punch…that’s rich. But then again, it only happens in the cartoons. Needless to say…..well, you know where I’m going with that one.

  24. ladystclaire says:

    I believe O’mara and west are going to look like the *VILLAGE IDIOTS* that they really are. because those images are not of Trayvon Martin and, they are no where near being Trayvon. all AA do not look alike as some people think. how can they do this and expect to get away with it?

    If they had read the autopsy report, then they would know that now wouldn’t they? Tray did not have any body markings on his LEFT arm, his were on his RIGHT arm end of story. as for the video, the kid in that video had markings on his left arm as well. I hope Judge Nelson denies their motion for a delay because, they would be ready for this trial, if they hadn’t been having their fellow racist to do their work for them.

    This is evidence tampering and, everyone involved should be looking at some jail time and, that goes for the defense as well. I really feel so bad for Trayvon and his family. I sent Sybrina, Tracy and Jahvaris a message just to let them know that I’m here for them and also for Trayvon. this sickens me to the core.

  25. ay2z says:

    Meanwhile, back at the fogen camp, a likely scenario of keep busy stress release.

  26. ay2z says:

    Oops!! Double the pleasure… I posted the link and then watched before hitting send.

    Another point checked off as FAIL for the defense.

    • Rachael says:

      How the HELL does that man (and I use that term loosely) sleep at night.

      • ladystclaire says:

        By the looks of those Samsonite Bags under his eyes, he doesn’t sleep and, it’s not because of him feeling bad about tarnishing a child’s character either. this dip stick should really be in a heap bit trouble over this.

      • racerrodig says:

        He and PhatFogenPhoole subscribe to the 3 “P”‘s

        Prescription Party Plan “……um, hey Mark……try one of these” says Fogen.

    • Ty Flair says:

      That’s right LLMPapa great video,O’mara has know chance. Fogen is high as hell in this video,could it been then when he cut off his mom lights or could it been when he slap his ex girlfriend in the mouth or could it been when he kick the dog or could it been when he pick that lady up and threw her or when he wanted to run over mexican or the road rage chasing down a car or bullying his co-worker. O’mara we can play this game also,but we don’t have to we have the real evidence Fogen own words and alot more.

    • Xena says:

      @LLMPapa. ROFLMAO!!! Fantastic! Get him, LLMPapa. Gethimgethimgethim. Get O’Mara and George Zimmerman.

    • two sides to a story says:

      Yup, that’s all GZLC gots, obviously!

    • Malisha says:

      Those two pictures, Trayvon blowing smoke and Fogen looking totally drugged out on downers, could be on a poster asking:

      “Which of these two guys is allowed to get away with murder in Florida?”

    • Christopher Charles says:

      As sung by Mr. George Benson:

      “Are we really happy with this lonely game we play
      Looking for words to say
      Searching but not finding understanding anyway
      We’re lost in this masquerade

      Both afraid to say we’re just too far away
      From being close together from the start
      We tried to talk it over but the words got in the way
      We’re lost inside this lonely game we play

      Thoughts of leaving disappear
      Every time I see your face
      No matter how hard I try
      To understand the reason why
      We carry on this way
      We’re lost in a masquerade

      We could just start over
      But it’s oh so hard to do
      When you’re lost in a masquerade”

      TY very much!

  27. Rachael says:

    You know, I don’t think I have ever hated – and yes, I use that word hated – anyone as much as I hate MO’M right now. If that is his strategy, to get people to hate him more than they hate GZ, I would have to say it has worked with me.

    Of course that doesn’t change the fact that GZ is GUILTY OF MURDER!!!!

    • racerrodig says:

      Last year when the evidence started to come out, Robbie the Racist began his crap and Fogen went on Hannity I kept saying Fogen is more “Hateable” every day. The Zidiots started that garbage that hate is just so wrong……..really, what does Fogen and every member of the Zidiot Nation represent…..Hate.

      • Rachael says:

        Yeah, they also represent people’s rights to bear arms – unless you are Trayvon Martin.

      • Jun says:

        I honestly feel Omara might go to prison after the trial and be indicted

        • racerrodig says:

          We can only hope, but I think there is a good possibility of it. Maybe he and FogenPhoole can share a cell…..maybe O’ Mara will have a cellmate named Bubba, as we say. Maybe O’ Mara will have a cellmate who had a son murdered by a Fogen style Phoole.

          Karma……Bad Karma.

      • two sides to a story says:

        Stay focused on hating the negative actions and not the people. The people can be transformed – we can hope they are transformed so that these things never happen again.

    • Rachael says:

      And what REALLY pisses me of more than ANYTHING you can even BEGIN to imagine is that MO’M is saying crap that the picture of guns “could” show that Trayvon had a propensity for violence.


      Why in EARTH would I think a kid with a picture of a gun has a propensity toward violence rather than a MAN WHO CARRIES A GUN EVERYWHERE WITH HIM??!!!!


      • ay2z says:

        Yep. Remarkable contrast. Shows Trayvon was a normal, teenaged kid going through what normal teenaged kids do, except for his special tattoos– can’t wait until the jury gets to see those in tribute to his mother, his grandmother, his praying hands symbol, and his love of his cousin who was killed shown in the tribute button he wore the night his own life was taken away.

        • racerrodig says:

          The best part is that all the shit The Moron Man is traipsing around will never be seen or talked about at trial…..What a dipshit wasting all this time.

          I doubt he’ll contaminate the jury, look at what the jury foreman in the Arias trial said on Friday…..They saw right through the crap and were tired of it…….

      • Xena says:


        Why in EARTH would I think a kid with a picture of a gun has a propensity toward violence rather than a MAN WHO CARRIES A GUN EVERYWHERE WITH HIM??!!!!

        Remember — GZ was not asked by Serino neither Singleton if he always carried. It was when appearing for his voice stress test that GZ VOLUNTARILY said that he had forgotten that he was carrying. Why would he do that? Because Osterman probably told GZ that he could not claim self-defense when bringing a gun to an altercation and the other person tries taking it away.

        It didn’t work out well for Dooley when he brought a gun to an altercation and claimed he shot because the victim was going for the gun.

        Don’t think for a second that BDLR has forgotten about that.

      • two sides to a story says:

        “The simple presence of a gun in the home can increase the homicide rate in that home by 60%. This may be due to the increased thoughts of aggression and violence that have been connected with the simple presence of a violent weapon.”

      • pat deadder says:

        Rachael so let me get this straight It was ok for fogen who was ADD and on mind altering drugs and had a propensity to violence documented but Trayvon couldn’t even have a picture of a gun if the picture is even authentic.Omara can go begging to NRA for money for his shitbag client but they declined haha.Bet there are real pictures of omara with a gun and what about the picture of fogen with his gun.Talk about a double standard and why would that be could it be skin color,

      • texad says:

        @ Rachael

        I agree with you.


      • Lonnie Starr says:

        MOM and West are losing it. Their grip on reality has finally loosened and allowed it to slip from their grasp. Unless the right psychoparmaceuticals can be found the trial may have to be delayed until either their balance can be restored or suitable replacements can be found. I mean really, pictures of guns? When was the last time anyone ever heard of a hold up or mugging where the criminal used a picture of a weapon? These guys are trying for a trip to the funny farm.

  28. Malisha says:

    It just occurred to me: this whole thing with the “Trayvon tweets” and the faked-up “violent Trayvon pictures” was — a total diversion. The motions this and that were not about anything! Look at the timing:

    Report comes out saying: “Dear God, these assholes, they always get away…but not on me” was Fogen and “I’m begging you” was Trayvon…

    And we do not hear that O’Mara stands up there and says: “We deny that my client said those things; my client did NOT say those things and we will PROVE IT.” We hear: “Oh look we found out that Trayvon was a thug!”

    This is NOTHING.
    This is NOTHING.

    This is: “Please do not pay attention to the fact that it is obvious now that Fogen apprehended, interrogated and murdered an unarmed kid” and “please, instead, pay attention to the crap we are screaming about, uh, I mean the fraudulent untrue and idiotic bullshit we are snake-oil-selling.”

    • Jun says:

      It’s rather shameful, if you think about it

      They are left with nothing but smearing and slandering a dead kid

      Even an 18 year old guy that ran over a black man had the honor to simply admit to his crime and apologize for what he did and do his time

      otherwise they go with the “thug attack” scenario or “trayvon hid and attacked”

      The funny part about Omara’s dumb ass hide and attack theory, which is blatant lie, is it begs the question “Why did Trayvon feel that he needed to hide? What was Fogen doing to cause Trayvon to run away and hide?” and then it becomes obvious that it was because Fogen was going after him with a gun and stalking him in his car and on foot, otherwise, why would Trayvon hide and also try to run away… because even in their new theory or hide and seek, it shows Trayvon had a reason to hide LOL

      And his attack on the audiology expert will also fail… the man has done lots of that type of work and his testimony is accurate and factual because it does indeed sound like a kid or a younger voice

      • ladystclaire says:

        O’mara knows how Jose Baez lied during his defense of Casey Anthony and it worked so, he figures that he would do the same thing except for one thing, Baez lied on a witness and not the victim. of course he wouldn’t lie on a 2 1/2 year old murdered child but, O’fool is still going with the lies and false information about the victim Trayvon Martin and, I pray to GOD it back fires on him.

        Hopefully the Slum House is being carefully monitored so the prosecution can see where the defense is getting their false information from, as to what to use in order to demonize the victim in this case.

      • racerrodig says:

        There are so many problems FogenPhoole will have to overcome it’s a joke…, explain this away “..I’m beeeeeegggiingggg you!!”

        Is PhatassFogen going to say Trayvon was saying “I’m begging you give me the gun so I can shoot you because I forgot my gun??”

        Noooooo not hardly. “Shit, he’s running…” The tone of voice…I’d call it anger / frustration. Then the always classic “These assholes, they always get away” An all time show stopper is “..fucking cxxns” Gee, correct me if I’m wrong all ye of Team Trayvon, but I’d say Bernie’s material will blow O’ Mara into the swamp.

        Trayvon’s known words and reaction…..”Get the hell away from this nut”

        Fogen “I’ll get you, you ain’t getting away….and I’m armed and dangerous”

      • ladystclaire says:

        @racer, You know, something tells me this dickhead dipstick is going to be charged with a HATE crime and, if he does, what part will the refuse shit house and SunDunce cracker play in that trial?

        • racerrodig says:

          I believe you may be spot on. pretty soon we’ll all know

          • Xena says:


            FBI Jurisdiction

            A hate crime is not a distinct federal offense. However, the federal government can and does investigate and prosecute crimes of bias as civil rights violations, which do fall under its jurisdiction. These efforts serve as a backstop for state and local authorities, which handle the vast majority of hate crime cases. A 1994 federal law also increased penalties for offenses proven to be hate crimes.

            Cases involving violation of civil rights do not have to include murder, assault, battery, arson, etc. They can also consist of using one’s position to violate the civil rights of others. Google Raul Iglesias, former City of Miami Police Sergeant who was sentenced in March of this year to 48 months in prison, to be followed by three years of supervised release.

      • Jun says:

        To be honest, the Casey case, the state did not even sound confident she was their “guy”, especially if you check their after trial actions and statements

      • Jun says:

        Let’s see what we have

        1) Fogen’s myspace where he talked about murdering Mexicans and that Mexicans were punks and not real thugs like Fogen

        2) Numerous complaints from black residents of Fogen stalking, threatening, and harassing them

        3) Fogen’s friends saying that Fogen was fed up and not going to take it anymore and he was real mad. This was after having said that Fogen was blaming all blacks for crimes in the neighborhood.

        4) Fogen sent a newsletter out trying to frame all blacks and made remarks to have him harass black residents within the complex

        5) Fogen’s dad’s statements show that they judge people on race. Fogen’s dad stated that if Fogen felt Asians were the ones responsible, Fogen would act the same to Asians.

        6) Obviously with that past history, it was fairly obvious why he was stalking Trayvon and calling him a “fucking coon/punk” and an asshole who always gets away, but “not on Fogen”

        7) Fogen plays judge jury and executioner with no proof of anything and terrorized this kid before killing him.

        8) Junior’s remarks about blacks and always trying to hide behind every race by claiming they are that race, while having always claimed to be white beforehand.

        Hate crime states that Fogen simply needs to target a race for a crime, and violate their rights, and it’s a hate crime…

      • Jun says:

        Oh yes, remember, the Feds are not gonna give any information out and can charge and go by trial by ambush, so whatever the Feds have publicly stated could easily be a ploy and they will go after Fogen LOL

      • aussie says:

        I don’t see the Feds wasting time and money on prosecuting someone who’s already doing 25 to life.

        Also, doing so would seem to be overkill, and increase allegations about railroading etc.etc. It would be a politically dangerous move.

      • Jun says:

        I dont see it as railroading

        Hate Crime laws were made for people like Fogen

      • Christopher Charles says:

        “Even an 18 year old guy that ran over a black man had the honor to simply admit to his crime and apologize for what he did and do his time.”

        Maybe between now and the end of his trial gz will cease his delusion, and do the same.

        • cielo62 says:

          Christopher/ GZ is incapable if escaping his delusion. He is not smart enough plus he’s real sociopath. There IS nothing outside of himself.

          Sent from my iPod

    • two sides to a story says:

      Snake oil might be too nice a term for what GZLC is selling. What in the devil are they thinking?

  29. Leisa says:

    As I looked over the transcripts of his past 911 calls, it sure appears to me that a few of them depict him in a vehicle following another one. I don’t get as much of the cop language as I would like so I ask the questions and you good people help fill in the blanks. Speaking of those reports, there is one reporting a black male around the back gate and that report has the name Martin in the comment column. Anyone knowing that answer would be greatly appreciated.

    You know for about a day and a half after they released this in verified crap, I was very down and angry. As I think about it, we know what happened that night and I firmly believe “What goes around comes around” so this is far from over and now Bernie is the one still holding his cards. The truth will be told.

    • Xena says:


      You know for about a day and a half after they released this in verified crap, I was very down and angry.

      O’Mara’s intentions is an attempt to taint the jury pool. He’s betting that all 500 people called for jury duty watch the news, read the newspaper, search the internet in following the case, get his tweets, or know of the release of the material some other way.

      All the court needs are 6 people who haven’t.

      Without a witness to testify of the released materials, it won’t be allowed in court. So, I never worried about Trayvon’s phone records and the purported social media pics tainting the case in the least. None of that proves that GZ killed Trayvon in self-defense.

      • Rachael says:

        I was never down about it, but I was very angry and I still am. To me it isn’t the point that the defense won’t be able to bring this into court, and it doesn’t matter to me that anyone with even a fraction of a brain cell would know that none of this means shit, but it is the fact that the defense would basically kick a dead puppy and make a total mockery of the system he wants to give his client a fair chance.

        • Xena says:


          but it is the fact that the defense would basically kick a dead puppy and make a total mockery of the system he wants to give his client a fair chance.

          Understood. However, when there is no evidence that your client killed in self-defense; your client is breaking you financially, physically and emotionally; and you want prosecutors to offer a plea deal; you do what O’Mara and West are doing. They are sleaze, but what more can we expect when the lead attorney focuses on divorce and not criminal defense?

      • two sides to a story says:

        Hopefully there will be a sanction against GZLC for violating the FL rules of evidence.

        If not, I have faith that the jury will know that nothing matters in any other time frame except for the moments that Fogen spotted Trayvon walking in the rain until he followed and killed him.

        • Xena says:

          @Two sides.

          Hopefully there will be a sanction against GZLC for violating the FL rules of evidence.

          Not sure if violating FL rules of evidence applies, because presenting evidence takes place in court and the court has the final say over what and what is not admissible. However, bias and double-standard does apply. The State has had the raw data for Trayvon’s cell phone and effectively told O’Mara in open court if he didn’t understand it, hire someone who does.

          That said, it means that the State did not release Trayvon’s phone data to the public. Reasonably, it could be due to the fact that O’Mara motioned the court to keep GZ’s phone records sealed. What’s good for the goose…. giving the same respect – – that sorta thing.

          But, I have to go back to the hearings because IIRC, Judge Nelson ordered that social media be sealed. That order may have said “Facebook”, and “Twitter,” but it may not have been specific to the source. There may have also been distinguishing between DeeDee’s social media, and Trayvon’s social media.

          Thus, the pictures that O’Mara released purportedly from Trayvon’s Facebook would be in violation of the order of the court if I’m remember Judge Nelson’s order correctly. O’Mara might play with semantics since the pictures were not provided directly by Facebook.

          If anyone remembers the hearing about the social media, please let me know.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Well now… Let’s see what evidence there is of gz’s self defense claim.

        1. Eyewitnesses? None (the one who did claim withdrew it)

        2. Medical Evidence? None (no evidence of physical or psychological trauma) No evidence that Trayvon waged any assault or attack of any kind.

        3. Photographic? None, The small injuries depicted are not life threatening, nor are they the result of a life threatening attack.

        4. Testimonial evidence? The only person making the claim of the occurrence of a lethal or near lethal attack are gz’s own claims which do not fit the physical evidence.

        5. Physical Evidence? None! The physical evidence refutes the narrative and testimony.

        The defense is now engaged in a struggle to find evidence that they can use to portray the victim as possibly being capable of waging an attack of some kind against an older, heavier, stronger and more aggressive adult, trained and experienced in hand-to-hand combat as evidenced by his employment as a barroom bouncer and security “muscle” against adults who become aggressive and combative in a bar environment.

        This employment requires him to move towards, not away from, physical combat dangers and be able to suppress it in a wide variety of cases and conditions, with able bodied adults.

        • Xena says:

          @Lonnie Starr. Something I realized last night — I won’t get into all that GZ says happened after he alleged Trayvon asked if he had a problem. We already know it.

          According to Trayvon’s phone records, his call with DeeDee ended at 7:16 p.m. The phone company does not provide seconds. DeeDee heard the beginning of the altercation. Then there is the witness whose call was clocked in at 7:16:11 and in the background at the beginning of the call we hear Trayvon scream “I’m begging you.” The shot is captured in the background at 7:16.56.

          So, how did all that activity GZ describe take place in less than one minute? It would take him at least a minute to shimmy.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Let’s see, DD’s call picks up the start of the encounter and disconnects at 7:16:–

            T-Mobile doesn’t provide seconds but:

            The first 911 call picks up at 7:16:11 … Meaning that there is only 11 seconds of the encounter that is unaccounted for.

            Now from 7:16:11 until 7:16:56 is 45 seconds, and that is filled with back and fourth talking and screaming. Then answer is to parse the last 45 seconds before the gunshot, to see how much time was available for any assault at all. It would seem to me, just off hand, that there wasn’t only no time for fighting at all, but there was no time for Trayvon to go from terrorized victim to superior attacker.

            It is, by the evidence, that any assault had to occur within that 45 second window in time, reduced by the back and fourth and terrorized screaming. Perhaps leaving as little as 15 seconds for any fighting to happen. Which, of course, we know never happened because there’s no evidence of it on Trayvon’s hands or clothing.

            There’s also no movement away from the range of the phone receiver.
            Meaning that the encounter, except for 11 seconds, happened right there where the shot was fired.

            Since there’s only 11 seconds and they’re 40.5 feet away from the T, there’s no way for them to travel to the T and back again (81 feet) in under 11 seconds. So gz’s tale of woe dies here in the end of Trayvon’s call and the start of the 911 call.

            So then, what is there to be made of the other sounds witnesses have heard? Exactly who were those people arguing that “bent the corner”? It could not have been gz and Trayvon, since at that time gz was still on his NEN call and supposedly headed for RVC. While Trayvon was still on his call with DD and lost to the view of gz.

            Obviously if gz was anywhere near the north walkway, Sean should have heard those guys arguing or making the noise that bent the corner that the other witness claims to have heard.

            gz doesn’t mention anyone else being in the area, less arguing and making noise. Sean doesn’t hear it in the background on his call, or maybe his tapes need to be enhanced to see if there’s anything there.

            Most likely gz was no where near the north walkway or the T, when those guys come around that corner. So there’s a question of exactly at what time did the witness hear them coming around that corner because gz had to be somewhere else entirely.

          • racerrodig says:

            Remember, if you use Fogens sequence of events, his NEN call. the 911 calls, and Trayvon’s cell records, Trayvon would have attacked Fogen with over 30 seconds remaining on the NEN call and since it is not, it looks more and more obvious it sucks to be Fogen about now.

            I know from my connections, that is a big part of the prosecutions case. LLMPapa had a video about that last year and I thinks “….it’s undisputed…” Fogen can’t wiggle out of that one.

            You have the right to remain silent………or you can keep on chattering and convict yourself, hell, it makes no never mind to us.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Hahaha… The “voice stress test” probably caused him to relax, thinking “Boy are they dummies, what have I got to worry about?”
            Because, he would think, if they believed in the voice stress test, they’ll believe anything. Each time he discovered he’d trapped himself and they didn’t seem to catch it, he probably thought what fools they are and laughed to himself. I can’t begin to imagine how hilarious he must have found it when they let him go home for the night. This was going to be easy, so sure he’d meet with these nice people tomorrow for a walk thru. …And sure enough he aced that too, eh? They let him go home again. So what was there to worry about?

            Later on, when he got wind of a massive nationwide campaign against him, he cobbled together a website to “keep from getting voted off the island”, to his way of thinking. This was now going to be a game of getting votes. After the second bail hearing, he was surprised to discover how much they had learned and wondered where all that stupidity went.

          • racerrodig says:

            Never count on a “No Arrest Guarantee” served up by racists. Nope, that ain’t working to well.

          • cielo62 says:

            Lonnie- here’s something i never understood; Osterman is supposedly a friend of GZ. As a former LEO he should have known that voice stress test is bunk. So why did GZ insist on taking one? Didn’t Osterman warn him?

            Sent from my iPod

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            I’m sure MO would have warned him if he could have, but it’s the nature of the timing. This was done at the station on the night of 2/26/12 so MO didn’t have access.

            Later, after gz went over to stay at MO’s, he probably never mentioned the stress test to MO, in short, MO could not advise gz properly, because gz was either telling him lies or lying by omission.

            If Osterman was there at the scene that night, his focus of major concern was probably keeping his own involvement secret, and not trying to help gz extricate himself from the trouble.

            My guess is that MO offered to keep gz at his place, so that he could pump him thoroughly, to see if gz had made any slip ups and gave away the presence of others. Which is probably why, although the cctv evidence shows, what reasonably should be gz’s truck coming down RVC and going over to the mail kiosk, gz fashions a story about “accidentally” encountering Trayvon over by FT’s place, so as to obviate the need to have anyone else involved.

            Clearly if he had just left home on a trip to the store, he’d have simply gone out the front gate, since there was no clue that Trayvon was sheltering from the rain in the mail kiosk. He simply couldn’t see Trayvon there, because, he still doesn’t see him, even after he makes the first pass at the mail kiosk. He turns away and heads back toward FT’s place, only to stop before he gets there, turns around and heads directly back to the mail kiosk. This second pass at the kiosk and the NEN call begins.

            I’ll guess that Trayvon was being followed home from the store by “the three stooges” he saw at 711, and that suspicion that he was being followed (seeing the same car two or three times would certainly cause one to think). So Trayvon dodged through Colonial Village, came through the short cut by FT’s and was at the mail kiosk at or before 6:54, where gz could not have seen him because he his house too late to do so.

            So far that’s been my theory and I’ve yet to see anything that compromises it. Even in spite of some argument that gz might have seen Trayvon in the kiosk before he could turn from RVC, onto TTL heading out the front gate to go shopping. Those arguments, from around June 2012 on the, failed miserably.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        What we need now is some videos depicting the types of bar room brawls that gz would have been required to handle as a bouncer. The more the merrier 😆

        • Xena says:

          @Lonnie Starr.

          What we need now is some videos depicting the types of bar room brawls that gz would have been required to handle as a bouncer.

          Well, just last night, I found and audio clipped the portion of GZ’s interview with Serino where he admits that his friend was not old enough to drink. GZ had no problem encouraging underage drinking.

          LLMPapa, if you’re reading this, would you like that audio clip?

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Xena you may have broken the case. DD’s call ends at 7:16:– but the other 911 call picks up at 7:16:11, meaning that at most there’s only 11 seconds unaccounted for, where gz and Trayvon were near enough to her window for her phone to pick up the sound.

            There’s no time for them to be anywhere else and there’s no time for any fighting to have happened. gz knows that he wasn’t even near the concrete at all during their encounter and in less than 45 seconds, after some screaming in terror and aggressive talking, gz shoot Trayvon dead on the spot.

            So, the evidence BDLR has shows that gz was never met by Trayvon at the north walkway or anywhere near the T during their encounter. Thus we now know for certain that gz’s story of being attacked and knocked to the ground is a bunch of self serving hooey made up out of whole cloth. No guess work involved, the evidence proves it!

            Since we know that gz was not chasing Trayvon from TTL to the T, the noises the other witness heard of an argument that “bent the corner” had to be some other people out there. Maybe a better look at her testimony can give us a fix on the time of her claimed observation. But we know that if it was as loud as she says it was, gz could not have been nearby without Sean hearing it too.

            Perhaps those noises we hear during the NEN call, really were other people out there stalking around. One things for sure, this evidence needs to be given a more thorough going over. Now that we can place gz and Trayvon near the 911 callers window for the duration of the encounter.

          • Xena says:

            @Lonnie Starr.

            gz knows that he wasn’t even near the concrete at all during their encounter and in less than 45 seconds, after some screaming in terror and aggressive talking, gz shoot Trayvon dead on the spot.

            You know, I find this fantastic, because you are seeing it from a direction I did not see. What my thinking was, is that it’s impossible for all those actions GZ claims to have taken place in less than one minute. I had not thought about others bending the corner and any association to where Trayvon was killed.

            Good work!!

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Hahaha… It’s my kind of thinking that gets me in trouble, that is, until it is mandatory that a solution be found, unfortunately after the solution is found everyone wants to forget what went into it. Oh well.

            But yeah, that racket “bending the corner” has been puzzling me since I saw it on Trent Sawyer’s video. At the time it made everyone think that maybe gz was chasing Trayvon and yelling and screaming and they turned the corner and headed south.

            I couldn’t see how that could happen. Travyon had run south with a good head start before gz gets out of his truck. gz supposedly runs east while still on the phone with Sean. If there was all that racket bending the corner, Sean would have to have heard it. So, gz’s phone had to be out of range when this happened.

            Okay, but could it have happened after the end of the NEN call? Nope, Because the encounter between Trayvon and gz had not yet happened, so who would there be to yell and scream at anyone? Also neither of them would be anywhere near the corner at issue.

            So, when the encounter happens DD hears it begin. The phone disconnects but within 11 seconds the 911 call picks up. So, who are the people making the racket that “bends the corner”??? Taaffe, Osterman, Jon and/or John??? Obviously these four are lying their little kiesters off! Because it seems to me their problem is they were there, and they knew what was going on and they had to conceal it because they knew they would be a part of it. At the least they would all lose their jobs, at the worst they would be sued and ruined if not jailed. As it is they’re now skirting obstruction of justice and facing felony jail time of their own. The HOA knew that other members were involved, thus they had to settle before any of these other got caught and became public knowledge.

            This case is getting read to split wide open. One more evidence dump should just about do it.

    • ay2z says:

      Thanks Lonnie,

      This answers something that was bothering me, which is the concept or meaning of the ever bantered about term ‘attack’. Who attacked whom equates with who threw the first blow as the media often portrays it in this case.

      The confusion is that what happens to cause someone to be fearful and react in self-defense. Just because someone hits someone first, does not mean that they ‘attacked’ the personas the aggressor.

      I don’t like that word because it implies the attacker is the aggressor.

      Substituting ‘assault’ and using the definitions Ragan gives, makes so much more sense, and gives clarity of meaning.

      There are also statements in the discovery which indicate Zimmerman was yelling at Martin in a deep, authoritative voice. Therefore, did Zimmerman commit an assault upon Trayvon Martin before any altercation happened?

      I think there is an argument that he did. Assault is defined as “an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent”.

      The question then becomes, “Is chasing someone unprovoked at night an act which indicates a threat to do violence?”

      I can tell you that if I am walking to my home at night and someone starts chasing me, I am going to assume the person intends to hurt me.

      The bulk of Florida cases where an act is deemed to be a threat are where a person is driving a vehicle towards someone (usually law enforcement). The caselaw says that, whether or not an verbal threat is made, if a person drives a vehicle toward another and that person reasonably fears imminent danger, the driver has committed an assault. The caselaw supports this as an assault even if the vehicle only moved a few feet. Isn’t chasing someone down unprovoked the same thing? Especially if the person giving chase is physically bigger and, most especially, armed?

      There is some very recent caselaw from the 2nd District Court of Appeals which says that in an assault “the State must prove that the defendant did an act that was substantially certain to put the victim in fear of imminent violence, not that the defendant had the intent to do violence to the victim.” In that case, the threat was driving a vehicle toward the victim. Under this scenario, it wouldn’t matter whether or not Zimmerman intended to harm Martin when he chased him down, only that Martin reasonably feared imminent violence.

      I think the State argues the threat was chasing Trayvon down. Zimmerman had no lawful authority to do so as a Neighborhood Watch captain. In fact, in interviews of the Sanford Police Department Neighborhood Watch supervisor who worked closely with Zimmerman, it is clear the police department informs Neighborhood Watch members to be the eyes and ears of the police only. They are trained to call the police and are specifically told not to be the “vigilante police”. What does all this mean for the case? If the Judge believes that Zimmerman committed an assault by the act of running Trayvon Martin down causing Martin to reasonably fear imminent harm, Stand Your Ground would not apply. It wouldn’t matter if Trayvon Martin subsequently hit Zimmerman, banged his head on the ground, etc because Zimmerman initiated the confrontation with an unlawful act, i.e. the assault. Under this scenario, Zimmerman would lose the Stand Your Ground Motion and the case would proceed to jury trial.

    • BillT says:

      she got some facts wrong fogen wasnt told to stay in his car, he was told to not follow by his own word that he understood that is what they meant by “we dont need you to do that”…..that SYG doesnt apply is obvious for fogen but clearly DOES apply for Martin, he COULD indeed legally punch fogen for the assault on him done by fogen.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      That would be why there was no SYG hearing. And I believe every darn Fogen supporter knows this and keeps running the line that it doesn’t matter if he got out of the vehicle and followed.

      Of course it does! They think if they repeat this often enough and loud enough that they can obscure the case.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Yes my Dear Two Sides, they are very disturbed people who safeguard the ignorance that unseats them. They seem to think that we’re on the web, trying to decide this case. Not so, what we’re doing on the web and blogs is, trying to figure out what will be. The case’s outcome will be decided, based on what evidence is presented to the jury and what the law says about that evidence. We’re trying to figure out what laws apply, how and for what reasons, using the evidence to try and see what the prosecution and defense has to present to the jury.

        They [TCTH and Co] seem to think that; who wins the argument on the blogs and boards, determines who wins the case. They don’t seem to realize that all any of us can do is, try to figure out what we think should happen at the trial, not decide what will happen at trial.

        Much of the evidence we have covered and uncovered will never make it before the jury. Not because it is not material or relevant, but simply because it is not needed to prove the case.

        We “Trayvonites” believe that the defense will lose because they are hampered by a lack of substantial evidence of innocence. We know that the defense has some evidence, but we’ve looked at it and we don’t see how that evidence can withstand challenge. For a very long time we have known that the law would bar the door to immunity, because there was just too much evidence that the foggen had failed to observe the practical advice he was given, that would have avoided this very situation. The dispatcher told him his following wasn’t needed, his NW training told him not to follow, not to carry a firearm on watch and told him what could happen if he did these things. He was advised that unfortunate and serious errors could result from the disallowed conduct.

        gz went forward anyway, against the rules, while concocting stories that he was not breaking the rules and what happens? He tries to claim that exactly the unfortunate tragedy he was warned about, happened. That the person he followed, discovered his activity and, not obtaining a suitable explanation when asked, he claims they attacked him. While the evidence shows that he responded angrily and with false authority, when asked to explain his disturbing conduct. He then attacked his victim causing severe pain and terror, while he drew his weapon and killed the child.

        Remember, when gz speaks on the NEN tape he’s speaking as an authority! He knows, this and he knows that, and he knows what to do about it. He always, before this, waits for the police, and “they always get away!”

        He doesn’t feel he has to explain to Trayvon, why he is following him, because he has a perfect right to do so, because he has the authority of being the official Neighborhood Watch Captain. The “thug” on the other hand has no rights because he is obviously a criminal. Immediately after killing the kid, he get up and calmly discusses weapons and ammunition type with a witness, as if he’d just shot a deer. The witness then mysteriously manages to lie on gz’s behalf, by telling a story of a false MMA style beating that never happened, but is exactly in line with what gz will later claim. So, there’s that!

        • cielo62 says:

          Lonnie~ The Tree Pets live in a world of reality TV. Enough votes and your guy wins. I was telling a close friend of mine about this case, and how I follow this blog. She asked, so you guys vote or what? I was incredulous! No, I said, it’s a REAL Case that will go to a REAL jury and follow the REAL laws of the land. I despise reality TV because it is NOT reality. I’m interested in this case not just emotionally but intellectually as well. I WANT the legal system to do what it needs to do to insure JUSTICE. (I’ll cut my friend some slack; she has no idea what a blog is)

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            What I do for people who don’t know what a blog is or don’t use the net is, I print out a couple of pages and give it to them. They, invariably, come back with “what’s this reply thing mean?”, usually meaning they want to reply. That’s when I get to show them. If they get an answer and you print that out and give it to them, they’re off to the races. Nothing kindles the drive like having an interest.

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @Lonnie –

          Wasn’t it Jon (Asian male, Hawaii accent) who conversed w/GZ re ammo caliber and then took photo of back of GZ’s head, then called Shellie @ GZ’s request – but it was John/W6 who came up w/MMA style fighting – then recanted?

          Two different guys, right?

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            There were two people with the name John, 1 was John, the fellow who was afraid to come outside before the gunshot, claims he ran upstairs but the evidence and testimony of his companion proved otherwise. It was he who came outside after the gunshot and began a conversation with gz about the kind of ammo and what gun he used. This guy also took the picture before Smith got there.

            As Xena points out, this guy is a pretty strange fellow for yet another good reason. He comes outside his house to have a conversation with the gunman, while the gunman claims to still have his weapon in his hand. He says he didn’t holster it until he saw Smith coming to him.

            The other John is spelled Jon and he’s the Hawaiian guy who brings out the first aid kid and gives the cop the supermarket bag to plug the sucking chest wound so that he can perform cpr. This is not the guy who tells the “MMA fighting” story. That’s the guy who was too afraid to come outside when Trayvon needed help. Suddenly he’s backing up gz with a false story that somehow coincides with a story that gz will soon tell. Only thing he gets wrong is the location and how it progressed. He says he witnessed it starting on the grass and moving to the concrete walkway. While gz says it started on the concrete and moved to the grass.

            gz’s story is so screwed up that all MOM can do is try to make himself look like a “pitbull” attorney, the kind that never gives up, sort of like Bruce Cutler (John Gotti’s lawyer).

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Good post, Lonnie.

        I might add that Fogen supporters are stuck on the “okay” and the injuries and the unfounded conclusion that Trayvon stalked Fogen. Oh, and the railroading, especially that.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Well Xena has picked up on the fact that when DD’s call ends at 7:16:– (because t-mobile doesn’t give seconds) a witnesses 911 call starts at 7:16:11 meaning that there’s less than 45 seconds from the time gz encounters Trayvon, until the shot is fired. But, more importantly, gz is located from the start of the encounter to finish, at and near the witnesses window. So there could not have been anything at all taking place near the T where gz claims.

          So then, who were the people arguing who “bent the corner” as another witness claims? It could not have been gz because he’d have been on his NEN call at that time and supposedly headed over to RVC. How could Sean not have heard all that ruckus in the background if it had happened while gz was on the north pathway?

          I’ll bet BDLR had this info a long time ago.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Xena, @Lonnie, @TwoSides –

            re: “So then, who were the people arguing who “bent the corner” as another witness claims? It could not have been gz because he’d have been on his NEN call at that time and supposedly headed over to RVC. How could Sean not have heard all that ruckus in the background if it had happened while gz was on the north pathway”

            To respond in reverse order, Sean did not hear that ruckus because Zimmerman was already past the T, had turned to corner, looking toward the back entrance and deciding to use the passage through the blocks of condos to run in and locate his quarry. But – it’s time to do a thorough enhancement of the 311 call — and not just for “coons” this time. Calling Dr. Reich!

            So, who cause the ruckus? Zimmerman’s co-conspirators who trailed GZ in a second car during this whole tragic mess? Osterman @ Shellie? Taaffee and Osterman in the second vehicle – with Shellie still in the schruck? In any case, these guys would be plenty alarmed to see Zimmerman suddenly bolt from his truck and dash after the suspect. Or Shellie afterwards – followed immediately by ‘the guys.”

            Any co-conspirator would know GZ was armed, and … dangerous.

            They would be arguing among themselves as they “rounded the bend” at the T as to the best way to intervene, or whether to intervene, or “What the fuck do we do NOW??? Jesus, whose idea was this, anyway???”

            They hear the screaming.

            They know to turn the corner, start to run down the dog-walk toward the encounter.

            And then, BAM! 20, 30 feet away, there’s that gunshot!

            The scramble in super-hasty retreat.

            “Shit happens” and they don’t want to be blamed for it.

            Shellie drops the truck key and flashlight – light still on, looking for George – just before she hits the T. The guys grab her, to keep her running. This is no time to “make neat” and pick up. Escape is paramount.

            No time to stop.

            “Gotta get the hell outta here … ”

            Is any of this possible?
            Is any of this probable?

            Let’s have the cell phone records!!!

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Wow, you got my idea almost exactly. They’re caught by surprise at gz’s actions and they know they’ve got to try and stop him, but he’s run all the way over to RVC and turned south before they can get to the T, so they’re stupified as to what to do next. Meanwhile gz knocks on Jon’s door and they talk briefly or perhaps he supplied some of the blood? Beef blood or something, anything would do, after all it’s not going to get collected or tested because gz isn’t going to the hospital.

            gz continues south on RVC and cut Travyon off at the house, driving him back north. Meanwhile “the boys” are standing out of sight over on TTL trying to figure out what to do when they suddenly hear the scream. That’s when they begin the rush and bend the corner arguing about what their next move should be when suddenly BANG, there’s a shot and like you say, they realize they can’t take a chance to go there, because witnesses are coming out. So they grab Shellie and rush to get outta there before anyone can spot them.

            In any event I think I remember counting 5 or 6 different positions for Trayvon’s body, and there are lots of people moving about, so we can’t be sure that there wasn’t a “white tee shirt” for example. Someone in a white tee shirt who replaces gz at the body for a couple of seconds then backs out of the area quickly.

            As usual there’s plenty of chaos at crime scenes when police and fire rescue arrive, plenty of confusion co-conspirators can use to escape or cover their tracks.

            Like I said, it’s less likely that Shellie and Osterman found their way to the scene, after Shellie was only told by a “stranger” that her husband had just shot someone. If it was a stranger calling she’d definitely need more information to know where to go, right? So, if she doesn’t know where to find her husband, because she wasn’t told, then how could she tell Osterman where to go? Thus the “Tell my wife I shot someone else”, is just for show, to keep her out of it by giving her cover for being there and Osterman convinces her to extend that cover to him by saying that she called him.

            Whatever gz had in the truck, was not anything the boyz or Shellie wanted the police to see, so at the first opportunity they took the truck away. They couldn’t park it at gz’s house, the police might have come for it there, so they probably took it over to Osterman’s.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            Lonnie, I don’t think GZ was looking for the Blood Bank. I think he tripped and smashed himself running (into the car we see parked?), put his hand to his bleeding mouth by instinct, reeled over to that garage and put his hand on the first solid vertical he found – thus the bloodstain. IF IT IS, IN FACT, BLOOD. Bombshell, if it is.

            Jon said he and his wife were building a coffee table in the livingroom, and that his wife heard a commotion, looked out, and saw nothing.

            I was so surprised the FDLE guys did not do a more intense interview of Jon – and especially his wife.

            Especially after Jon perked up and said he had the photos on his computer.

            Think Jon’s wife could be “the secret witness’ who saw it all but didn’t want to get involved?

            I have been wondering if the HOA spread the word earlier for everybody to put GZ’s phone number on their cellphone. There was no inquiry by FDLE re how that call by Jon to Shellie was facilitated.

            If Jon encountered GZ at the garage door just before the shooting and they already knew each other, that explains to me how blithely Jon got his flashlight and went right out after the shot.

            But curious Jon exited his residence by the garage door AWAY from the shooting … to enter the grassy area by the alleyway between units – peeking around the corner first to see if it was safe?

            And did Jon assume THE KID would be unarmed – so only his buddy George had a gun?

            Jenna (first 911 caller) was terrified – her Jeremy clearly recognized GZ out there before the shot – and as an HOA Board Member she knew there had been complaints about GZ being armed. NO WAY was Jenna going to let Jeremy or herself get caught in the crossfire!

            Was Jeremy wearing a white T-shirt that night?

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            That’s a very good collection of questions that need to be answered.
            Unfortunately, the way the evidence has been coming in and the discussions that follow, have been yielding answers and probable answers, which I’ve been focusing on and collecting to put into my Master Revisable Timeline here where I’ve decided to add this blood evidence link in there near the finish of the NEN call.

            We each need to progress at our own rates and that’s why its critical that everyone feels free to post their own theories or reshape/rework others theories, adding evidence and knocking out errors, without driving each other away or suppressing people who hold misconceptions. Comity is the key, keeping the group of investigators and readers together, rather than deploy “gotchas” and other divisives.

            Working this case is a lot of work, especially for lay people, which is why we gravitated to the Professors Law Blog in the first place, hoping to find some professionals who can correct and lend guidance, point to the errors and highlight important discoveries, by whomever made them. So far we’ve done a spectacular job I’d say.

            As far as the blood on Jon’s garage door frame, the most reasonable conclusion is that it is a blood stain created somehow by gz’s pre-encounter visit there. Otherwise we’d have to presume some kind of food fight or other strange event took place in that area that night. That seems to be a very unreasonable assumption, given the hour, the nature of the area and people and the weather.

            Now back to the chase.

          • cielo62 says:

            Lonnie- I would still like validation that that stain is indeed blood. It could be oil or transmission fluid (which is a dark red). I want to know if any prints were found on/ in that stain. I’d like to know if any form of toxicology was run on that stain. I just feel that concluding it is blood is jumping the gun. Sorry if that makes me a party pooper. 😦

            Sent from my iPod

          • Somehow I missed this.

            Who found it, when, and what is it?

          • PiranhaMom says:

            Yes, this is a new mystery.

            Should be significant, considering the ownership of the unit (Jon) IF it is inded blood.

            Taco sauce, not so mysterious.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Well I can help with part of the answer here I think the crime scene photographer took this picture, then hung around and took more pictures after day break. Of course I don’t know that for sure, but so far no one else seems to have found anything more yet. Anyway that should bring you up to speed.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Not at all, you’re not being a party pooper, any investigator worth their salt would be remiss not to look for such verifying information.

            However, that said, there does come a time, beyond which we have only reason to guide us, because the confirmation we seek just doesn’t exist.

            Now, in this case there appears to be a very good reason why the needed verifying evidence doesn’t exist, and that is because the police were clearly trying to cover up the matter. So, it’s hardly a wonder that evidence went ignored and/or uncollected. Just lucky that the crime scene photographer (if that’s who took the picture), walked out the scene and did their job taking pictures.

            As you say, this stain could be just motor oil. But it would have to be a pretty odd event that left it on the door frame like that, at this particular time. Jon doesn’t mention any car problems, and it’s hardly likely the neighbors held a food fight. Then, because of the strange way Jon finds the courage to meet an armed man with a gun in his hand on the dark dog walk. Calls the man a stranger, but then is able to call his wife, without being given the number?

            What better reason does Jon need to disclaim that he knows gz, than would be the fact that Jon had some involvement? See? He lies to cover up knowing gz but his actions prove otherwise. Thus, it’s a good hunch that that stain is evidence of gz meeting with Jon that night pre gunshot.

            Remember there would have been nothing suspicious if Jon had simply come out and said that he knew gz as the neighborhood watch Captain, instead he lied to cover up what he should have known and been ready to freely admit. Not proof positive mind you, but a whole lot of suggestions going in the same direction.

          • dianetrotter says:

            could it also mean GZ’s head wounds were prepared before the confrontation?

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            That is a very good possibility. A person claiming to be a blood spatter professional posted a long time ago a ballpark analysis of how blood dries. He said that at room temperature 72 degrees, a drop of blood on a hard surface at low humidity dries in 70 minutes.

            Now compare that to gz’s conditions and we have gz at 60 degrees in high humidity and on soft, oily wet surfaces in the rain. Hard to see blood drying in anything less than 70 minutes. But, consider, even in half that time gz would still have been at home bleeding, for any blood to be dry by time Jon took the picture.

            My main reason for posting that “ball park” was the hope that some other professionals or experimenters would see it and attempt to create their own ball parks and post the results. Of course, it never happened yet.

    • ladystclaire says:

      It’s the best one I’ve read yet. Fogen caused this entire situation and bevause of him and his actions, Trayv.d to make matters worse, we have the dredge of society singing the praises of someone who has outright murdered a child.

      I like another poster here, also believe that what goes around comes around.

  30. Joy Reid discusses the Trayvon Martin case

    • ay2z says:

      The point Joy Reid makes that is questionable, is the fact that Trayvon brought the problem to Sanford as he was only visiting.

      But the next young black male to cross paths with fogen, whether he lived in Colabria Cove or cross town, would likely have been from Sanford. This wasn’t a problem visited on Sanford by a visiting teenager, minding his own business in a place he had a right to be, not doing anything suspicious but in the mind of a paranoid wannabe cop.

    • Ty Flair says:

      Joy got a little postion working for MSNBC, I hope it did not go to her head. I hope it was a honest mistake when she said Trayvon brought problem to Sanford or she did not mean it that way. Joy has been covering this story very well.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I think in the way she says it, she means that the people in Sanford felt the problem was brought to them. However, we can see that if Fogen hadn’t shot Martin, he was destined to shoot someone else.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          For sure gz would have shot someone else if not Trayvon. I’m just wondering under what probable conditions? Since, without paying rent on a home in foreclosure, it’s unlikely he’d be in RATL much longer, especially without his truck, which iirc was due to be repossessed? So, where would he be likely to move without transportation? Obviously his dreams of being anything would be seriously placed on hold if he had to move into an impoverished neighborhood, it’s doubtful he’d survive the scams and pitfalls, since he’s already familiar with drug use. He’d probably become a low level drug dealer and part time enforcer, until he messed up and got himself in serious trouble because of his unstable head.

      • Rachael says:

        That was how I was thinking too.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        And if he had shot someone else, Chief Billy Lee would have let him get away with it.

  31. Leisa says:

    I went back and watched some of the video evidence again as it has been a while. (I suggest doing this) I was watching video of the voice stress test and was very surprised at what I did not pick up on the first time around.

    There is a conversation between Officer Singleton and him. They are discussing medical benefits and she makes a statement that floors me. She says that if they have a kid with a cough, they go to the hospital because they don’t have to pay for it. She is clearly referring to those receiving assistance.

    Later in same video with Mr. Ervin. While dipstick is explaining how he pulled his weapon to fire, Ervin has his right arm down (pretty much) showing GZ that he can’t do it the way he is saying. GZ even looks around under the table to see what he is doing. He is showing that with no room to maneuver, how gun would have to be pulled.
    This is same gut who suddenly remember he was present when Serino played tapes for Mr. Martin and heard him say it was not his son’s voice screaming.

    Sanford PD is almost as disgusting as the defense attorneys.

    • ladystclaire says:

      There is no almost about it, they are just as disgusting as the defense lying idiots!

    • There is a conversation between Officer Singleton and him. They are discussing medical benefits and she makes a statement that floors me. She says that if they have a kid with a cough, they go to the hospital because they don’t have to pay for it. She is clearly referring to those receiving assistance.

      What? Good catch! Wasn’t there some info about Zimmerman making notes of Singleton coaching him? I hope the SPD is put on trial as well for how they tried to sweep this murder under the rug. How do you go from no charges being filed to 2nd degree murder? Someone has some explaining to do.

      • Leisa says:

        The videos are on u-tube although the first one I watched of the test did not have the part before the test where he is talking with Singleton.

      • Don’t forget the part where serino is clearly telling gz that it’s him’ screaming’, even when gz denies it.

        you don’t get a cop coaching a suspect to lie on tape very often!

      • Cercando Luce says:

        thanks to your observation about coaching, I saw right above here in the comments of this very post that ay2z at 10:09AM posted a short dialogue between Serino and the defendant about defendant’s flashlight, and guess what? ANOTHER example of Serino coaching the suspect!

      • pat deadder says:

        Southerngirl Did you also hear when fogen asked her if the chief had told her of the glowing report he meaning fogen had sent to him about her. They seemed to have been familiar with each other.Anyway she didn’t believe his BS anyway.But it was all so weird.

    • JustMe says:

      What struck me as about the “insurance conversation” with Det Singleton is fogen deliberately brought that up and went on with yet another long story crossing his I’s and dotting his T’s explaining away why he refused to get immediate medical attention from the ER. This was intention, IMO, to set the groundwork as to why he refused emergency medical treatment.

      Fogen was so afraid to lose his life he had no other choice other than to shoot Trayvon in the heart to save his own, yet his fear simply disappears when he is faced with a potential ER bill.

      • willisnewton says:

        The purpose of the so called voice stress test was NOT to test stress levels, it was to isolate the killer and elicit more unguarded statements from him. He’s deliberately left to wait for a long period of time with a mostly silent female officer. GZ speaks to lessen the tension and reveals aspects of his character demeanor and personality that may prove useful to the prosecution at trial.

        Then later he relates his inconsistent and patently false statements to the test administrator further Implicatimg himself.

        Nothing regarding these “test results” is admissible at trial and the text itself is scientifically worthless – the entire thing is a ruse to get a suspect to continue making voluntary statements to the police without having a lawyer present. Serino and Singleton did a routine on George that is called “good cop/ good cop.” And he fell for it and it is his many lies inconsistencies and contradictions that will destroy his credibility at trial. His own lawyer Knows there is. No way he can take the stand and survive cross examination given His many llies to SPD. I think ser Serino and Singlrton did a fine job keeping George happy and talking .

        • PiranhaMom says:


          Will, throughout the year’s recounting of this tragedy, there have also been a few things to smile about. I’ve often thought of having a contest for “Most favorite quote from the Zimmerman case.”

          My fave is when Doris Singleton, in that early interview, her voice rising in exasperation, says to GZ, “But you’re pretending … ”

          Then, catching herself (maybe Chris Serino shot her swift warning glance) and realizing this is being taped and so she ought to continue following protocol, quickly segues into “You’re telling us … ”

          Singleton’s statement, “You’re pretending” has stuck with me all this time, as the “Theme from George Zimmerman, in Z-Minor,” signifying what his testimony is ALL about.

          You’re right, Will. When it came to Good Cop, Bad Cop, Singleton and Serino made a fine team. Singleton was masterful in her use of silence to elicit comment from Zimmerman in that stress-test room.
          We are all much indebted to them for their service – and street smarts.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            You were right P-Mom, I had the Jon mixed up with John. That’s because I always seem to think, for some reason, that it was the one on TTL who came out and did those things, not the one on the other side at RVC. Anyone know who took the night time crime scene photos? Was it the same person who took the daylight photos?

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Lonnie –

            Thanks, Lonnie, for clarifying.

            Re “night time photos” – these are the ones that Jon took — then weeks later advised FDLE he had them on his computer, yes?

            His memory was jogged by the FDLE interview, correct?

          • Deborah says:


            T-Mobile, America’s First Nationwide 4G Network

            Frederick Leatherman Law Blog wrote:

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            I hope I’m not confused again, but I think the person your talking about sounds like ofc Wagoner. Who only remembered the pictures he’d taken at the scene, weeks later when questioned by FDLE. That’s the picture of gz sitting in the police car and the one with the “floppy” swollen nose that magically heals by the time they get to the station.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Lonnie –

            Check the FDLE interview roughly 3 weeks later with “Jon.” That’s when his photos surface.

            Amazingly (“amazingly?”) both sets of photos of GZ on-site @ RATL after the killing “lay dormant” for weeks …

  32. Jun says:

    You know what’s real stupid and I just noticed this now

    Omara was making a hissy fit about Lester not being able to be impartial for a SYG hearing and the muthafucka did not even bother having one and waiving it

    • Rachael says:


    • ay2z says:

      Excellent, thanks for voicing this to mr. lawyer manz.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Powerful. OM and Westie should be ashamed of themselves.

    • LLMPapa

      O’Mara and West think any black hand holding a gun will do. Are they THAT stupid? Strike that. Yes they are THAT stupid.

    • Jun says:

      There’s really no way to prove Trayvon is holding the gun, all that is proved is someone used Trayvon’s phone to take a photo of a hand holding a gun

      and not only African people have dark skin as there are many Asians that are just as dark skinned so that’s a possibility of about 3 billion or so people that could have been holding the gun

      and lastly, having a photo of a gun does not necessarily mean you go around attacking people as I have many photos of guns and I do not go around attacking people and if showing a photo with a gun makes you the aggressor what does that say about Fogen?

      Omara’s a fucking idiot sometimes because all the bullshit he puts out can easily said about him, times ten

      • Rachael says:

        Too bad GZ wasn’t carrying around a picture of a gun INSTEAD OF A REAL ONE that night!

        What an idiot MO’M is!!

      • ladystclaire says:

        Trayvon had a android phone and, he could have easily down loaded that photo to his phone. people down load stuff on their phones, tablets and Ipads every damn day.

        That photo on his phone does not necessarily mean what the defense want people to believe it means. they are running with all of this BS as if it is all the gospel truth of what type of a kid Trayvon was when, it doesn’t mean a damn thing and these two misfits will end up with egg on their collective faces behind this.

        Angela Corey did not look at all none to pleased, when she found out about what Mutt n Jeff did.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Don’t worry, the SP will check to make sure that those photos weren’t auto downloaded from social media sites that Trayvon was subscribed too. Look at your inbox, each day when you load up your mail app, it automatically downloads all kinds of stuff. Those pictures were found as part of a data dump that probably by passed the usual apps that a user would use. Thus, we can’t know if these things are contained in unopened emails Texts may be marked read, but like with email we all know that’s no indication that we’ve actually read them. In fact, some of this stuff could even have been retrieved from the phone’s trash bin.

          If computer experts were to go through your computer you have no idea what they might find, but I’ll guess they’re going to find lots of porno because we all get spammed by that stuff. I remember a court case where they tried to charge this guy because they found 15 child porn pictures on his computer, until his lawyer hired an expert who discovered the FBI had found the pictures in the recycle bin where he had deleted spam emails he had received unsolicited.

          Anyway, there’s no way to authenticate any of this data that O’Haha has released, worse yet, people are finding the actors have their tattoos on the wrong arm, meaning that O’Haha is submitting faked evidence. Not looking good for ol’ ThugBloat.

      • tinytruthseeker says:

        The thing about the photo of the gun makes me think of a moment in the Arias trial…. Juam Martinez asks Jodi what was she going to do with a gun that wasn’t loaded…. THROW IT AT HIM????

        What exactly is this photo of a dark skinned hand holding a gun suppose to do? Frighten a juror into believing this boy was going to flash that photo at his gun toting stalker and somehow shoot him with the picture????

        • racerrodig says:

          “The pen (a picture of a gun) is mightier than than the sword (a loaded gun)” just doesn’t quite make it for me.

          • tinytruthseeker says:

            Its not a real gun…. it’s not a picture that has been authenticated as an actual picture of Trayvon holding a gun…. the entire purpose of planting the mental image of this boy holding a gun is so obscene it borders ridiculous to me…. thus the memory of the question…. what were you going to do with the unloaded gun? Throw it at him??? Any juror with an ounce of common sense would ask themselves first…. “Why am I being shown a picture of a gun in an anonymous hand?” Answer : Sleazy lawyering….(mental note…. strike one against the defense)

          • racerrodig says:

            That’s what I’m saying…..nobody knows who’s hand that is, where the picture really came from and if you pull a gun on me, I;m countering with a swift picture draw…….rip….oppppps, tore my gun in half, now it’s useless.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Ah, but that’s the “beauty” of O’Mara’s ploy. None of this will be shown to the jury because it’s irrelevant and immaterial, as well as without foundation. But, where it will do it’s real work is, at coffee counters and kitchen tables where good hard evidence isn’t needed, and bigots can use it to agree that Trayvon is indeed a very violent child. The hope is that some of these people so impressed, will be ones reporting for jury duty.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          It happens… MOM has been under so much pressure from this losing case, with nothing he does bringing in any more cash since the SYG / Immunity hearing was waived, his grip on reality has sadly slipped away from his hands. He has handed over his mind to a world of wild imaginings where a picture of a gun is as good as a gun. He doesn’t need a continuance, what he needs is a straight jacket and time to reflect on his careers sad slide into the insane cesspool of bigotry.

          • Graphic and well said. The man is unraveling.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Thank you Professor. I noted with horror during the hearings at how idiotic and mixed up MOM’s thinking was when he actually trashes his own, sought after expert, in trying to get the court to reduce his fees.

            Not only does O’Mara forget that he’s being sued for non payment of fees to his security hires, he seems to think that by reducing the man’s credentials he’s going to be able to negotiate a more favorable rate.

            My guess is that after this hearing, no expert at all, worldwide, will answer a call from O’Mara and West. Good thing the experts name didn’t come up, I’ll bet he was totally frightened by MOM’s offers and the risk that his name might be released… “inadvertently” of course.

            Well, now we know that MOM will not be able to present any experts at all. This horrible performance excludes it.

          • Lonnie….It fits right in with their “underpaid staff”……..So mom’s running a law sweat shop?

            mom = greedy shyster

            fogen = greedy deadbeat

            What a team 😐

    • Malisha says:

      Actually, the message of “Black hand holds gun” was a subliminal and it won’t matter at all. Had both Trayvon and Fogen been armed that night it would have mattered. As it is, the evidence that comes out overwhelms the subliminal message about a thousand to one.

      A friend of mine is African American and very glamorous and she’s a highly decorated (with prizes like the Tony Award) Broadway actor. She went to a meeting with an attorney (in his 60s, white) and a detective (don’t know age or race but do know he was not African American and not young). Both of these gentlemen, who are both very intelligent and competent, commented on her HAIR STYLE! They told her to change her hair style before going to court (in a civil case against a white man, having nothing to do with any perceptions about HER because she was not being accused of anything). They said her hair made her look like “an angry Black woman.”

      It was their opinion, freely expressed, that her LOOK that gave older non-Black professionals that “angry Black woman vibe” (by whatever means it actually accomplished that — I have no idea!) would do her harm in court. Merely the SUGGESTION that an African American could be “angry” is a terror-meme for some whites, apparently. Wow. I call that super-weird.

      They insisted she go to dinner with them after the meeting. She didn’t want to — they both protested vehemently because they said they so enjoyed her company and she had to go with them to their favorite place and blah blah blah. She went so as not to insult anyone but she told me that she felt intensely uncomfortable the whole time with that “angry Black woman with the wrong hair” feeling.

      Wow. People don’t understand stuff very well do they?

  33. trina cosbie says:

    Stand tall, stand firm, stand diligent and stand united Trayvon Martin supporters. In the name of Jesus dispatch your heavenly angels around Trayvon’s parents as they endure yet another storm. Let them continue to lean on your love, grace & mercy no matter what may come their way. May they find peace & sanctity in knowing that they’re blessed, loved & highly favored….Amen

  34. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Hi. I am reading Dan Brown’s new novel from which I am going to quote an excerpt now.

    As you read the excerpt, think about gz saying he had WRIST control AND about the stains or grass on the knees of Trayvon’s PANTS:

    “Ciao” a pretty blond woman said, smiling sweetly at him. She held out a folded piece of paper, which he instinctively reached out to accept. In the instant he grasped the paper and realized it was nothing but a piece of trash off the ground, the woman seized his wrist with her slender hands and plunged a thumb into the bony carpal area just beneath the palm of his hand.

    Ernesto felt as if a knife had just severed his wrist. The slicing stab was followed by an electric numbness. The woman stepped toward him, and the pressure increased exponentially, starting the pain cycle all over again. He staggered backward, trying to pull his arm free, but his legs went numb and buckled beneath him, and he slumped to his knees.

    [p. 135, “The Inferno” by Dan Brown c. 2013]

    • racerrodig says:

      My dad, the cop, taught me that move when I was about 12. Trust me, I could take down Mike Tyson with it.

    • boyd says:

      crump mentioned something about bouncer training. is he going there?

      • ay2z says:

        Bouncer training for fogen? Fogen was asked by Serino if he worked as a bouncer paid or unpaid, couldn’t make out the low volume answer.

        Makes no sense to put yourself in harms way for a business, unless you are getting something out of it, like pay or in kind benefits. Unless it’s for a no-for-profit and are covered by their insurance or have some disclaimer.

        Bouncer training sounds like a person would know how to grab and push, as in ‘out the door’.

      • boyd says:

        It was at the bottom of Crump response to MOM latest text mesages evidence. They ave the name of the bouncer school.
        (had no idea they had a school)
        so maybe they know he was taught how to do this wrist thingie.

        Other thing in the city you always want to know how to handle yourself in case there’s a fight, The way guys are , they get mad if you talk to a girl.

      • ay2z says:

        boyd, we learn something new every day!

        Bouncing is a highly specialized job that does require highly specialized schools.

        Yes, indeedy. Let us ask how many hot dogs fogen earned at his job.

      • Rachael says:

        Pfffttttt OMG, that’s too funny. I’m gonna look for the hotdogs. LOL

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Inhale pain, exhale tranquility.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Oops. that comment was supposed to go somewhere else and stuck around. I was just thinking ’bout the six pack of hot dogs Fogen has now. He should be in bouncer heaven!

  35. boyd says:

    MOM put his graduation photo in as evidence. What’s he doing there?

    It’s typical GZ. a phony front. and a different set of rules. I needed to graduate to walk.

    • ay2z says:

      He told Serino, on audio, “associates” when asked about his highest level of education. Later he clarified he was ‘”continuing for his bachelor’s” but never admitted the first statement was a lie, and falsifying his actual educational. Of course, he said ‘associates’ and not ‘associates diploma or two year degree’, but it’s still a lie regardless of that technicality because when you say you have a PhD, that means you have the degree without saying PhD degree, etc.

      He’s going to play games, what he does.

      • boyd says:

        ask 20 questions you get 1 clean answer if your lucky.

      • ladystclaire says:

        I wonder how does he feel knowing that the entire WORLD knows just what a *FAT ASS LIAR* he is and, a *MURDERER* to boot. but, Serino and Singleton both knew he was lying anyway.

        He might be able to fool some people with his lying but, he is not going to lie his way out of this and, who ever helped him concoct the lie about Trayvon opening up a can of whoop ass on his *FAT ASS* should be charged with obstruction of justice.

        That baby never laid a hand on his nasty ass and he as well as Jon, Jeremy and W11 know he didn’t. how do these people live with themselves, they better rethink what they are hiding and have a come to JESUS moment and, tell all they know. this is ridiculous for them to know exactly what happened that night, yet they lie and, keep their mouths shut as far as the truth goes.

  36. pat deadder says:

    I’ve been following.There is nothing better I can say but I do wish BDLR could at least say something like some of what the low lifes have put out has not been authenticated.I feel sad and don’t think this will taint the jury pool because if a racist got on the jury it would not matter if Trayvon had acted like God Almighty they would still try to aquit the murderer.I guess they don’t care that the slimball and his wife lied to the court and were most likely to abscond with their money.I guess that’s ok by them as long as he gets away with killing a black child.I don’t believe half the junk they have put out there but even if every single thing is true fogen at least gets a judge and jury,That’s more than he gave Trayvon and the poor kid can’t even defend himself.Anyone who so far has heard fogen’s many stories and still defend him doesn’t care about truth.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      “Fogen at least gets a judge and jury,That’s more than he gave Trayvon. . .”

      Pat, exactly. He has the judge he deserves and I suspect he’ll get the jury he deserves as well. I hope he’s learning something from this experience. It appeared last summer during the Hannity interview that nothing was sinking in.

      • pat deadder says:

        Two sides Yes the infamous Hannity interview.I don’t think he will ever learn anything. None of his family has.And I don’t think he is capable of feeling remorse.There is something wrong with him.He was basking in all the attention.May the 28th is close.His whole fam damily needs to stfu.They are delusional imho.So may I ask what happens now with Shelley’s deposition.Does JN decide anything on that or is that it.

    • parrot says:

      The murder and the support for the murderer saddens and angers all of us, Pat.

      And what motivates the supporters is that GZ did what they wish they had the cojones to do–kill themselves a young black male.

      Jury selection must be exhaustive to weed these people out.

      • ay2z says:

        O’Mara wants all these people to co-mingle in a private dequestered facility, until tjhey find the bad applles with agendas, whether they want to be a juror or not, innocent remoarks, or not, flyers promoting juror rebellion, or not.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Pat, none of his family is capable of having/showing remorse as well. if my son had murdered another mothers child or anybody else for that matter, I would be down on my knees expressing just how sorry I am for what a child, that I carried under my heart took from her and her family.

        This really saddens me to the core and, to even think that some people in this country can be so heartless as to support this murderer who they know lying and, at the same time they trash the victim.

        Since I read SG2’s comment last night about him going through trial 1 and then trial 2, I feel somewhat better about know that, Fogen is not going to lie his way out of this even though he and his attorneys as well as his supporters are doing their best to make the victim the aggressor and a thug. my heart aches for Trayvon and his family.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Cielo62, what is trial 2 you ask? ask SG2 because, she made reference to it last night. I’ve got a good idea as to what she was referring to.

      • texad says:


        I agree with you. Their support of GZ has more to do with their desire to go back to the good old days of Sundown towns all across America. They actually hate GZ as much as they do people who look like Trayvon.

    • ladystclaire says:

      @Pat, NO they don’t care about the truth unless it happens to one of their own. these *RACIST MORONS* are not only from the south, oh no they are from all fifty states and, that’s for sure. people never stop to think that, my troubles today could very well be your troubles tomorrow.

      When something like this hits home, they would no bit more want to be treated like this and they damn well know it. we will never know if or when one of them may be walking in the same shoes of Trayvon’s family because they are hiding behind their keyboards.

      There is one IDIOT RACIST who even if he is not going by his given name, David Piercy is going to see some pretty hard times, before he meets his maker. if I hear of it, I am going to jump for JOY because, the world will be a better place when he’s gone. the hell fires await this IMBECILE!

      • Christopher Charles says:

        “…we will never know if or when one of them may be walking in the same shoes of Trayvon’s family….”

        We can rest assured of this: Karma gets all of us; but, I suspect it will be extraordinarily brutal with gz, MOM, West, and all the rabid, racist supporters of gz, his brother and parents included.

        Lord, have mercy.
        Christ have mercy.

  37. Since day one of the night in question, you think the defendant almost pulled off the perfect crime. The first thing he did was tell everyone he is was going to Target nearby his house. Strange isn’t it. He never went to Target. Two people lived in the direct path of these townhouses, his sister one and his best friend Taf. They had to have called the so called captain of a NW to alert him of a young black teenager walking through the townhouses. Fagan decides to check this character out and grabs his gun thinking he is going to need it. (He didn’t think he was going to need, he couldn’t just let this suspicious black guy get away) He decides to get into his car so he won’t be conspicuous and sees this young black teenager who was walking in the rain and on his celli. He decides to call NEN instead of 911 informing them of a ‘suspicious guy” walking in his community. Gives them a description of the kid but here is what I have a problem with. In the In-Session room the supporters of the defendant whom we know as Fagan, discuss the “mirror effect” in picture taking regarding all the evidence that was put in the public media. It’s strange that they brought this subject up. This is part of that perfect crime scenario. I prompted myself to do a research in the “Perfect Crime” theory.

    “A perfect crime goes unsolved not because of incompetence in the investigation, but because of the cleverness and skill of the criminal.” But in this case it was incompetence by SPD and the cleverness and the skill of the criminal with family and friends included.

    Not to say Fagan is clever but I must say he is manipulative in the way this case all began. 1. He calls NEN instead of 911. 2. He claims he feared for his life. 3. Shoots and kills a 17 year old Black American youth. 3. He shows no signs of any real injuries at the scene to serious injuries after he was sitting in the patrol car. 4. Taf suddenly appears then Fagan’s wife during the time he was sitting in the patrol car. 5. He refuses to go to the hospital. 6. He is taken to SPD for questioning and gives his statement stating it was a SYG situation. 7. They let him go. 8. No Blood test was done. 9. He lies to the court about Monies. 10. He lies about passports. 11. His statements of that night are not consistent.

    Now remember, I mentioned the mirror effect. In the 911 calls of him and Witness 9, he said on two occasions that it was not him screaming (“it doesn’t even sound like me). BUT all of sudden his daddy appears on TV saying that was his son screaming for Help. Now his daddy surely knows the law because he is a magistrate and his mom work for the state and don’t you think his daddy is guiding him to say this and to say that with the help of his mom. All of sudden Fagan comes to I don’t know to it’s me screaming. I mean who could have better parents to help their son get out of a Murder case. Fagan has it made because he has a law expert for a father plus he went to school for Criminal Justice, rode around on police tours. All of that is better then lawyer’s right? I mean what did they have to lose? I surely think not their son for gosh sakes. During the time of his not being arrested what do you think they were doing? Family meetings with his best friend wannaB new adopted found brother and neighbor, talking strategy in making a new blue print of the crime scene. Then all of sudden TV interviews and just like he was prompted to do, memorizing his lines from a script as if he was an actor. Still waiting for the mirror effect?

    The Mirror effect:

    Everything that Fagan said that the victim did and said mirrored to Fagan ya think? Fagan said the victim told him “ he hit me and knocked me down I fell backwards” “you’re going to die tonight” “you got me” “stfu” “I reached for my phone” “he broke my nose”.
    A possible scenario: Fagan caught up with his victim by saying “I got you”. The victim initially was on his phone but the call dropped and he was trying reach for his phone when Fagan grabbed him he so desperately tried “to get away” but Fagan wasn’t having that, words are exchanged but it is not words but the victim’s screams “No” “Stop” I’m Begging you” while Fagan told his victim to “STFU”. Fagan saying “You deserve to die tonight” but only two of those words were heard on the 911 call. (“You deserve” was heard by me on the 911 call of Witness 9 Fagan shoots him standing up, shooting him directly in his heart killing him. Hearing the gun shot and right after that his victim falls to the ground on his knees with his arms underneath him (a thud his heard after gunshot on 911 call of Witness 9 is heard), Fagan gets on top of him straddling him making sure he dies that way nobody will know what he has really done. Police arrived at the scene; officer states he has no apparent injuries. Then all of sudden on December of 2012 a bloody picture of the defendant is released when the shooting happened 2/26/2012. Convenient yeah? Is that a design of a gun mark on the back of Fagan’s head? Um interesting… Everything is covered right? We may never uncover the real truth on this earth but one thing is for sure, the higher than high will know what has inspired.

    I guess we will see on June 10th or thereafter if they get away. What better for the Defense team for one more Strategy of the Game to release the pictures at this stage of the game… The defense team once again has turned this case into a game of manipulations (chess) and they made a mockery out of the Justice System. Do you think this suggestion was Fagan’s or his fathers’, you tell me? This is just how I figure it to be, my opinion, my gut feeling, mine only.

    Note: Please sign the petition:

  38. says:

    GZ is a bully. He has a long history of bullying. He molested his younger cousin for ten years, got fired as a bouncer for roughing up a drunk woman, had a restraining order against him from an ex. Didn’t he harass a couple if co workers?

    Can the prosecution high light his demonstrated pattern of bullying?

    We all know how deadly bullying can be. And an innocent kid is dead.

    • racerrodig says:

      Fogen broke the ankle of the female bar patron. She sued them and won a lot of money and Fogen was fired. He then worked as a bouncer for underage drinker parties (wholly illegal) and was fired for beating the “kids: up. Typical.

  39. Manuel Jesus Ramirez

    Meanwhile, George had a career, a family, a driver’s license, a concealed-weapons permit, paid the bills, and was only one class away from a degree until the Miami POS interrupted him.

    Now he’s on his way to building a bank account in the eight-figure range. An American success story.


    Dude, Zimmerman is on his way to prison. Is that what backwoods racists call success? LOL!

    bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha

    • Jun says:

      1) Fogen never paid his bills. He still owes money to a security company and he owes another legal agency $18,000 and was also behind on rent and tried to screw his landlord over

      2) The concealed weapons permit is questionable

      3) It’s a 2 year course and he has taken it for close to a decade, so he’s been a class away for a long bloodclot time

      4) No one interrupted Fogen. He willingly chose to stalk a teenage kid and when the teenage kid tried to avoid him, Fogen went after him with a gun. What happened is the exact opposite of interruption.

      • racerrodig says:

        That interruption shit made me laugh like there is no tomorrow. Did that jack ass think Trayvon said “…hey you, yeah you you Afro – Peruvian nightmare……I call you out…lets rumble”

        That is just another example of Zidiocy…..Plain & Simple(ton)

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Southerngirl, it’s hard to believe some of the garbage Fogen supporters think. Even if he were to walk, his life would be in tatters and he’d live with the knowledge that he’d unnecessarily taken someone’s life. He’d be highly unlikely to win any lawsuits because of the nature of the incident and his past history (he definitely would not get hired as a cop and he doesn’t have the brainpower or skills to be an attorney, let alone a judge). Karmic justice would probably ensue anyway, much like the guy who got off for stabbing someone in Miami who then was killed himself accidentally in a drive-by shooting two years after his exoneration. Success story indeed. : / Duh. Fogen should have been happy in his little insurance job and happy with making NEN calls and staying in his damn truck.

    • boyd says:

      career? ha ha ha ha ha

    • Malisha says:

      As if you can take two people, “show” that one of them is more successful or more responsible than the other, and then the one who gets the “higher grade” can shoot the one with the “lower grade” to death and that’s OK.

      Sure. We’ll have the American Dream in no time flat with that system in place. Here I come! Armed!

    • kllypyn says:

      A career he could barely hold down a job whose he kidding?

      • racerrodig says:

        That Phat Bastard had $16.37 in his checking account.

        Career ??? as what, a pauper ?? Well over 10K in credit card debt, 2 months behind on both vehicles, behind in the rent, defrauded one attorney already, not to mention being a stone cold hateable loser on the whole. But WTF, he’s got a gun….

        Career !! A hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha !!!

    • Christopher Charles says:


  40. thejbmission says:

    Actually I’m not shocked by Trayvon’s pictures at all. The only thing I saw was TM raising his middle finger and trying to look bad by blowing marijuana smoke on camera. Oh and he tries to look tough on video. Really. What else is new??
    This is 2013, I would think that many of the jurors have raised boys.

    Honestly, I’d like to give the potential jurors the benefit of doubt. I’m betting they won’t give a shit if they see that garbage on the news. Whether TM smoked pot everyday or was an A student it doesn’t change the fact that George Zimmerman hunted him down like a dog and shot him in the heart. I say, “To hell with the pictures and text messages!” The State’s evidence outweighs any faux pas TM may have committed in his lifetime.
    However, I still hope that Judge Nelson sanctions O’Mara and West for trying to muddy the jury pool AND don’t forget the passport bullshit too. Grrr…They’re both playing dirty pool. I hope O’Mara and West have to pay the price.

    • Rachael says:

      “This is 2013, I would think that many of the jurors have raised boys.”

      I know, really. I know my son’s phone looked much the same when he was 17. There was even a pic of him with an AK-47, which of course he sent to me just to freak me out.

      • cielo62 says:

        Rachael- when I was @ 22, I visited a fiend in Israel. In Israel, EVERYBODY serves 2 years for the government. 90% serve in the military. There are rifles and guns everywhere. I had a picture taken sporting an AK-47. I don’t own a gun; never have and never will. But imagine if you gotten ahold of that photo. I guess I’m fair game, huh?

        Sent from my iPod

    • boyd says:

      was it marijuana smoke?

      was it a real gun?

      whose pot plants?

      what’s .380 in Krop High school slang?

      where is the crime?

      did he just eliminate jurors above age 25 with the tons of slang text messages?

      and waht’s the diffeence between this and a rape victim past history?

      and after all this the Jury will go back to focus on what happened that night and we have tons of testimoney from George to disect.

    • FactsFirst says:

      “Actually I’m not shocked by Trayvon’s pictures at all. The only thing I saw was TM raising his middle finger and trying to look bad by blowing marijuana smoke on camera”

      co__sign… The only problem I have with the pictures is they appear to be altered… I noticed in O’haha’s motion that he described the pictures from being from Trayvon’s phone “or other places”… example, the infamous “middle finger” pic looks completely different on Trayvon’s myspace page with no tattoo, no middle finger/hands period AND his hat is turned to the back… I gotta feeling O’Haha is in big trouble come May 28th along with his stupid ass client..

      • racerrodig says:

        Don’t even think about any of this…..That’s not Trayvon !!!!

      • ladystclaire says:

        @racer, NO it is not Trayvon and, these two dumbed down attorneys are taking the word of those racist misfits and, they are running with it.

        • racerrodig says:

          We found that out over a year ago and yet these morons continue to buy that…..and that Moron O’ Mara posted them. The one is a young rapper from New England and last year he went on a rampage telling the Zidiots to stop using his image and calling him Trayvon. he likened Trayvon to “The Virgin Martin”

          Those stupid Zidiots…..just how much egg can one actually have one’s face !!!!

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Not to worry, BDLR is on the case! If MOM has released false material in that evidence dump, be sure BDLR will call him out for it and the judge may have little choice but to sanction MOM.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @racer, are you talking about the rapper who goes by the name NO Limit “N” who is in his early to mid 30’s? there is no limit to what these people won’t stoop to.

        It’s really unbelievable to know that there are people in this country, who can actually be filled with so much hate, that they can and do hate an AA kid who they know not one damn thing about. these very same people can overlook Fogen’s Latin roots, while treating Mexicans with such disdain.

        These very same people think that, no other race of people have any business in this country and, if they had their way, they would make sure that only white people would be living here.

        • racerrodig says:

          I believe that is correct. I do know for a fact they are full of shit with the picture of anyone flipping the bird. This will be a hoot watching O’ Mara get his ass kicked on that one.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Since MOM has released this in his discovery, he can’t claim that the SP’s research on it is discoverable. Thus the SP can have a detective research the photos and other errata and then they put him on the stand and the process begins.

            BDLR passes copies of the picture to the jurors and asks the detective witness if he’s seen this before and where. Hahaha… O’Mara screams “OBJECTION”, court says: “OVER RULED”

            BDLR asks: Where have you seen these pictures before?

            Detective: In the defense’s reciprocal discovery released to the public.

            BDLR asks: And were you able to determine anything about these pictures?

            Detective: Yes, we determined that they were fakes!

            [At this point MOM begins turning purple and faints]

          • racerrodig says:

            “[At this point MOM begins turning purple and faints]”

            Ummmmmm, do you think Fogen will jump on him and try CPR, or begin crushing the air from his longs as well ?? Hey….it’s an honest question !!!!!!!

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            When there’s a motion pending against something, the good faith thing to do is wait for the decision. MOM, instead raced ahead, and released the material, before the decision not to do it came down. That’s a bad faith action and I’m sure either the Judge or SP will recommend some sanction against O’Mara’s bad faith action after the trial.

          • racerrodig says:

            Yep, he’s got one foot on the banana peel and one in the disbarment room.

      • Jun says:

        I do not think No Limit N@gga is Trayvon as the facial structure is vastly different from Trayvon and besides that the account is from North Carolina or South Carolina

        They are trying to pull the “all blacks look a like” trick but I have a good eye LOL

  41. zhickel says:

    Open post to Mark O’Mara:

    The fame from being, ‘The Lawyer who got Zimmerman off,’ will last a month or two.

    Your reputation, professional standing, credibility and perceived ethics will never recover.

    • cielo62 says:

      Zhickel- nope. He won’t be known as that AT ALL. He will be remembered as the racist bigot who showed his true lack of ethics and character by his smear campaign against a dead child. He has revealed himself as a scum.

      Sent from my iPod

    • Trained Observer says:

      @zhickel — The fame of being “The Lawyer Who Made Sure Zimmerman Got Sent Off to the Slammer Without Passing Go” will making him a laughing stock for a long, long time.

      But you’re right about his reputation, professional standing, credibility and perceived ehtics being in permanent tatters. He’ll go back to being a hack divorce lawyer for low-end clients.

      • ladystclaire says:

        Hopefully he won’t even have a law practice to go back to and, the same goes for Skelator. after all he’s shenanigans, hopefully he won’t even have a practice to go back to.

    • Rachael says:

      The Lawyer who got Zimmerman off? Only if She’lLie won’t do him before he goes to prison.

    • ay2z says:

      He has not won this case already based on smoke and mirrors and other useless distractions. He begins his defense somewhat later than the state begins it’s case as pointed out in this video, Bernie has other ideas, no doubt.

      • ladystclaire says:

        His face looks like that of a damn pig and, he has the nerve to still be smirking for the camera. you know, I wish I knew what made the over sized ass cry in court. in the words of Trent, GOOD LORD, HIS’S DISGUSTING!

      • Leisa says:

        I have to think, ok that’s the worst they have. It’s all out there about Trayvon now. Remember we have yet to see dipsticks text messages, e-mails and journal entries yet. That makes me feel better.

    • boyd says:

      I had a hunch he was as creepy as he looked. He’s not winning, these pictures and texts are gradually wearing off.

      ooh lookie heree City kids in 2013 is what MOM brings to the table. I find it hilarious MOM says he can undertsand Kid code but we can’t understand GZ prison code and know the difference between coons and whatever they substiute in.

      I am fed up with his I’m the smartest guy in the room arrogance.

    • Malisha says:

      zhickel, I don’t think O’Mara’s getting Fogen off. If he could, that would have happened at the SYG, of which there was none.

      Also, “reputation, professional standing, credibility and perceived ethics” are not realities; the lawyers get together and pretend these things exist — it’s like “clap for tinkerbell.”

  42. ay2z says:

    For those in central and eastern time, and beyond like our friends in Britain and beyond, it’s now day 16.

    I should have waited, but Papa has it posted. Thanks!

    • ay2z says:

      From Feb 29th, audio pt 2 Serino’s interview with fogen.

      CS: At the time of the encounter with him, was there anything in your hand?

      GZ: ….flashlight,

      CS: : Ok. Your flashlight. Was it working or was it not working?

      GZ: [It was] dead.

      CS: It was dead, ok, it was not clicking on. Was it in your right hand or your left hand?

      GZ: [inaudible, low volume]

      CS: Do you realize how these cases can go?

      GZ: Yes sir.

      CS: Ok, well how can they go?

      GZ: “… justifiable homicide….”

      (Serino already knew exactly how far the ‘non clicking on’ flashlight in fogen’s hand was from the T and he already established with fogen that it was working, just needed to be tapped a few times as it was working at the station. This flashlight was not found at the T. therefore fogen was not at the T when he dropped it. And during the re-enactment, fogen realizes his mistake, and needs to adjust his position to farther south by open hand pushing and stumbling gestures, but he forgot to include his flashlight in hand as he did that. )

      • pat deadder says:

        ay2z omg that’s amazing the flashlight.As many times as I have listened to his interviews that never entered my mind.

      • Tzar says:

        so many lies to go through

      • Two sides to a story says:


      • Cercando Luce says:

        COACHING! Thanks shannon, now I can see it.

        Coach Chris, it has a nice ring to it.

      • ay2z says:

        coach Chris? I don’t see where Serino coached fogen in this at all, in fact, he had a little string of questions that got fogen to admit the flashlight was in his hand when he was struck, and then immediately following that string of questions, in which he had cooperation from fogen, fogen admitted he knew about self-defense as ‘justifiable homicide’.

        Later fogen changed his mind about that.

        If you are talking about the background screams and Serino suggesting to fogen, it was him screaming, he asked ‘do you hear yourself or ‘that’s you’. I don’t know enough about interrogation techniques (like zip), but if Serino challenged him right off to say, ‘is that you screaming?’, fogen would have had suspicions raised that he wasn’t the little cop manipulator he thought himself to be.

        The flashlight questioning, showed he knew exactly the liar he was dealing with. And that was the beginning of audio pt 2 on wftv, the 911 call had not yet been played for fogen.

        I’m not saying coaching didn’t happen, or that Serino was a skillful interrogator, I am not qualified to judge, but I don’t believe Serino was rubber stamping fogen’s pass on murder, there may have been reasons he ‘coached’ or sounded like it, to avoid this suspect from shutting down, lawyering up or refusing futher interviews


      • willisnewton says:

        That’s a very good point about the flashlight not being mentioned in the “re-creation” video.

        In the recent defense discovery there is also a color photo of the map GZ drew for Singleton that shows more inconsistencies including a path all the way ACROSS Retreat View Circle past the end if the cut thru path that contradicts the idea that GZ stopped where he stops in the walk thru “recreation” video. This line then leads down into the dog walk area by a different route than what he claims in the “re-creation” Video.

        Regardless of position, someone closed a gap. Either it was the unarmed teenager who had just run away from a stalker in a moving car or it was the person who leapt from his vehicle three seconds after exclaiming “he’s running” – and then deliberately failed to mention the teen ran when questioned by police, instead inventing clumsily an obviosly false and physically impossible narrative about the teen “doubling back” and his own self being TWICE instructed to follow and observe te teen by moving in the same direction.

    • Malisha says:

      Well Jee Willikers! Here Fogen (a) never heard of the stand-your-ground law and (b) forgot he had his gun with him. So it’s all Sean’s fault. On that NEN call, Sean should have said, “Sir this is a very dangerous situation. You might not be armed and if you decide to follow this real suspicious guy, he might stand his ground!” I hope the feds are gonna charge Sean with endangerment!

    • towerflower says:

      Whether the concealed class he took told him or not (it is not required to teach the laws), I can tell you that the State of Florida gives you several pamphlets about the various gun laws of the State when they mail you your license and one of them is the SYG law.

  43. ay2z says:

    About the defense speculation of possible paranoia caused by pot use, what will they suggest? That someone following someone in the dark with a vehicle, then showing up again after the person being followed through he would have lost him, then following by foot into the darkness was paranoia?

    It’s prudent to be aware of your surroundings, young people should be taught to be aware, to avoid, to run, to tell someone, to get home, to fight back if confronted by an adult who is a stranger.

    Paranoia? Right…. let’s bring up fogen’s paranoia.

  44. Two sides to a story says:

    The Trayvon Martin Foundation has a new page on Facebook:

  45. Ty Flair says:

    I wish I could take some of the pain Trayvon parents are feeling,I know I can’t take the death of there son pain away believe me I know that pain. I’m talking about the pain the defense is giving them. O’mara fool us all when he took the case at the begining he said he feel sorry for Trayvon family and then he turn around and slap them right in the face.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      The 911 call that recorded Trayvon Martin’s desperate cries for help also recorded the outsize sadism of the trigger-puller. O’Mara and West feel that sadism too– the satisfaction of inflicting pain upon another living being– and they are using their position as defense counsel with access to publicity to inflict it on the victim’s family.

      The Orlando Sentinel’s employees are using their public position to do the same, for the same reason.

  46. a-little-birdie-told-me

    It doesn’t matter if this is allowed or not, the State can counter this and much more. This clown’s past is so tainted Corey will have no mercy in the coming days. The incrimidating evidence is solid and much of it is fat boy’s own doing. The SPD has already seen the writing on the wall, the State is bringing the hammer down on this group at trial as well. One of the first questions will be: Did you drug test the victim? Yes. Did you drug test the shooter? No. And it’s on from there, nothing held back. For those who think Trayvon’s cellphone is the key to his cell, you’re in for a rude awaking. This will be a bloodbath, make no mistake and the defense knows and fears it. They are calling Trayvon a thug, but their biggest worry is that they are defending a thug as well and no matter how they slice it, he’s a proven a55. An the absolute best news is that this is only trial 1, trial 2 should be entertaining as well.

    Let the bloodbath begin. Come on June 10th!

    • ladystclaire says:

      @SG2, I most definitely get your drift as to what trial 2 will be and, who will be bringing forth the charges because, I’ve been suspecting this one for quite some time and, IMO it’s really GOD’S plan that this couldn’t happen to a better (not) person than Fogen. I’m feeling better about the events of Thursday and, I hope Rene (Lap Dog) Stutzman and the OS get their just desserts as well.

      • Me too, Lady! Me too!

      • ladystclaire says:

        Girlfriend, I’m so full of excitement about this until, I’m about to burst. I can’t wait to see him walk into court and, have that big smile on his fat face as he shakes the hand of his sitter. they must have turned over every dead leaf of this IDIOT’S criminal past.

        By the sound of it, they have got him dead to rights. The Thuggish Ruggish Bone.

      • DruDo says:

        The OS is only good for lining the bottom of kitty litter pans. Biased rag is like the National Enquirer.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Hear, hear! I’ll will toast to that!

      • I hope they serve it up nice!

      • ladystclaire says:

        RIGHT ON! you don’t do wrong and expect to get by with it because, sooner or later the buck has to stop somewhere and, for Fogen his buck is going to stop beginning next month. I don’t guess the CSH ( Conservative Slop House) will have an attorney who will be a puppet for them, when trial 2 commence.

        It’s going to be real exiting to find out about his Thuggish Ruggish past. “The Thuggish Ruggish Bone” in da flesh and on trial. LMAO!

        BTW, Fogen looks like a thug and, I believe he was the leader of the gang he was in. I also believe those boys of his, have done some talking to the state of Florida since he bragged about how they did a year of jail time and, didn’t pinch his fat ass.

        Papa Z didn’t pay off the right people I’ll bet.


    • Tzar says:

      I can not wait for trial 2 as well

    • ladystclaire says:

      You have really got my curiosity UP! I am hip to trial number two of which you speak but, I just can’t wait until all of this tainted past is revealed for the whole world to see.

      • I remember reading an article last year where O’Mara stated his client was worried about added charges. For the life of me I can’t find the article. I remember posting it on the OS and the sane people discussed whether this might be hate crime charges. I looked everywhere for that article to no end. The Feds are quiet as church mice but that’s ok. When the time is right I hope they serve it up really nice.

  47. ay2z says:

    If the jury pool of 500 were to be sequestered, together or in groups, that would effectively eliminate large numbers of potential jurors before then even got into the courthouse for voir dire.

    One word, Mr. O’Mara knows, is a woman named ‘Peters’. She was able to get a group of 50 Anthony case jurors eliminated before they any of them even saw the inside of the courtroom for question one.

    Easy, all it takes is one to say something about the case as Peters did, and out they go.

    steamed judge and all.

    • ay2z says:

      Had the name wrong, she was a potential witness from St. Petes namded Patricia. She was both a media front face in the agitation of the grandparents and she did searches for the victim. This potential juror and potential witness, played a good part in the hyping of the case Jerry Springer style, in front of media cameras.

      This potential juror did talk to othervbpotential jurors about the case and wanted to be a juror because she believed the defendant was guilty.

      How many potential witnesses are listed by the defense in a relateively small city like Sanford? 200+ and all the police officers and staff of the SPD.

      Is O’Mara hoping for further delays as jurors might be dismissed in volume? Sequestering these strangers together without some level or voir dire to weed out listed witnesses and others with conflicts of interest. And admonishions to stay away from any case comments

      • ay2z says:

        People with children, including one parent families like Sybrina and could relate, would face hardships of being on a jury, nevermind being sequestered for an extended time while 500 people are questioned.

        That would be good for the defense, eliminate single parents surely.

  48. towerflower says:

    Since the Defense has sunk to these new lows to poison the jury pool, I would love to see the State “accidentally” release some of the emails and texts from fogen.

    What nerve, wanting to protect fogen’s reputation and not inflaming the public’s opinion of him and sealing unflattering information but then declare open season on Trayvon and his reputation.

    • ladystclaire says:

      @Tower Flower, I have been screaming the very same thing on each and every site. that I have been on today. Fogen’s sealed email, text messages as well as his phone calls should be put out there as well. why is it so damn important to protect him and, just murder this kid all over again?

      Fogen is a *MURDERER* and, no matter what he and his crooked ass attorneys put out in the public arena, with the help of Rene (Lap Dog) Stutzman and the OS.

    • ladystclaire says:

      correction, he and his crooked ass attorneys along with the help of Rene (lap dog) Stutzman and the OS, put this stuff out in public for one reason and one reason only. Karma is a bitch!

    • Rachael says:

      The absolute lowest form of bullying it is. Can’t get any lower than that. Picking on a little guy is horrible enough. I hate bullies, but can someone get any lower than picking on a dead kid? What does he really think he will accomplish? The fact he thinks this is the best way to serve his client is very telling.

      • Xena says:

        @Rachael. Looking in hindsight, what Judge Nelson should have ordered was that if the State didn’t release discovery documents to be posted on the court’s website for the public, then the defense could neither release it to the public. She can still do that with the current motion for a gag order before the court.

      • FactsFirst says:

        IMHO, Bullying would be an understatement! THIS is some straight up ole DOUBLE JEOPARDY type of shit! Think about it, fogen tried, convicted and executed Trayvon Martin on February 26, 2012. Trayvon was AQUITTED because it’s been proven that he was NOT commiting a crime.. Now, fogen’s defense is trying to convict TRAYVON ALL OVER AGAIN! It’s like Trayvon is on trial.. All I see in the news is TRAYVON DRUGS THUG GUN and it’s like WTF! That’s some ole Double Jeopardy type of shit!!!! Then folk wonder why…. ugh..


        Imma stop right there because everything else I wanna say is laced with profanity.. I’m tryna work on not allowing these folk to change anything good in me by making me hate them… Lord knows it’s hard.. going to pray now… bye…

  49. kllypyn says:

    repost to correct crappy typing … An open letter of support for the Martin Fulton family.

    Dear Martin/fulton family. Your son as you know was not a thug he was just a typical teenager.Don’t let these people get you down. The defense teams tactics will back fire. whether you knew he smoked weed or not is not nmy concern he was a teenager if smoking was a justification for murder then their are some kids Trayvon’s age down the street from me who should be on death row because they smoke a lot of weed when their parent are at work. at this moment they are now grounded because i told their parents on them. Trayvon was a typical teenager and his texts reflect that. Zimmerman knows he wasn’t screaming that was obviously a teenagers voice.

    Zimmerpunk knows he wasn’t the one screaming a man with a gun will not scream like that,a kid with just a drink and candy will.He didn’t just kill your son he terrorized and interrogated him before killing him.The jurors will hear those screams and know instantly trayvon was screaming.I don’t know if you know this Trayvon screamed i don’t know at least twice before he was killed. Trayvon was restrained by his shirts and unable to escape when he was killed. Zimmerman knows that as well.

    Trayvon never touched him.and was not capable of doing what he claims. he simply was not strong enough.He and his lawyers also know a kid who got into a couple of fight does not mean he was aggressive. Zimmerman is doing what he has always done trying to defect blame from himself. he is the only person that night with a known history of unprovoked aggression aginst other people. Trayvon had no such history. If mark o-scumbag wants to go there then so should you. Zimmerman’s violent history is well documented.Did Trayvon beat up a girlfriend,no. Did Trayvon attack a female undercover police officer,no.Did Trasyvon throw a women across a room,no. Did trayvon harrass his neighbors,no. did Trayvon chase an 8 year old boy home,no.

    As you already know Trayvon was a good kid who did the dumb the things that most teenagers do.But we all learn from those things and become responsible adults at least most of us do. Zimmerman never has.

    Weed cannibis marijuana,what ever you want to call it. teenagers do experinent my sister did my nephews did and even though they are now in their twentys 2 of them still smoke on occasion.Certain dirt bags are going to say trayvon was a thug because he smoked weed. If they want to go there here are the results of some research i did. 76% of white adults in this country smoke or have smoked weed.11%of blacks smoke or have smoked weed.9%of hispanics smoke or have smoked weed. 2%of asians smoke or have smoked weed. 2%of other ethnic groups smoke or have smoked weed.these figures are from 2007 newer figures aren’t available yet.I doubt there was much of a change since then.And although i have no proof Zimmerpunk and his brother probably smoked weed as well. That’s nearly 96,000,000 americans which by Zimmerpunks low life standards are thugs and should die.

    All this from a man with a history of thugary. He even bragged about getting away with crimes on his myspace page so if he wants to go there and paint trayvon was a thug which he wasn’t then all his past acts will come in. Smoking weed doesn’t make him a thug. downloading a picture of a gun to his phone doesn’t make him a thug and getting into a couple of fights doesn’t make him a thug he was innocent and Zimmerpunk knows it.the only reason they are stooping so low is becaused he and his lawyers know they havent a leg to stand on so they are hoping to taint the jury pool. Most people arent gonna fall for this crap and it may piss off a jury and secure a conviction. Most normal people dont abide killing unarmed kids while they scream for their lives.You guys have been through a lot during the past year and the way you have conducted yourselves is an inspiration. what i find really amazing is you have never bad mouthed zimmerpunk or his family even when responding to bull crap from his lawyers or his crazy messed up family.

    Heres a list of websites i think you should check into seeing if there are grounds for a lawsuit. THE CONSERVATIVE TREE HOUSE. THE UGLY AMERICAN. STORMFRONT. CHIMPOUT. DAVID DUKE. THE WAGIST. RENEWS IT. THE DAILY CALLER. RED STATE. You may not have a case but it wont hurt to find out. There are others but i got so pissed off i stopped looking. Sincerely yours Kelly D Payne.

    • ladystclaire says:

      @KllyPyn, I thought David Duke was no longer involved in this kind of shit. I should have known and, from what I can see these people are every where. you cannot go on any web site that is for Trayvon and his family, these racist sniff them out and, there they are spewing their racist BS.

      They have all but taken over the HP black voices and, some of them complain that just because HP has Latino Voices and Gay Voices also, they wonder why they don’t have White Voices as well. this is something they should take up with HP. but anyway, they are blogging there just the same. a lot of the stuff they get away with posting shouldn’t see the light of day, just like some of the BS I’ve seen from them on Facebook.

      The petition at, has been signed by some of them as well and, you can tell by the ignorance that they show case. if they want to support this murderer, why in the hell do they have to go on other sites and, interfere with people who want to have a serious sane conversation about this case? they have sniffed out evey and, I do mean every site, so they can have an audience for their racial hate of a murdered child and his family.

      These people make me really ill to say the least.

      • cielo62 says:

        Ladystclaire- they try, oh how they try, but they can’t infiltrate HERE!

        Sent from my iPod

      • Xena says:


        if they want to support this murderer, why in the hell do they have to go on other sites and, interfere with people who want to have a serious sane conversation about this case?

        Zidiots are verbal vandals. They can do that on comment boards for news articles, such as on HP and Yahoo. After those articles are a day old or so, very few people read posted comments. Those participating in the comment sections of news articles do so for their own personal reasons because other than those posting comments, no one else is reading.

        For the most part, Zidiots are not allowed to commit verbal vandalism on pro-justice for Trayvon blogs. They realize that the few blogs that do support GZ come across as White Supremacists, full of hate. They are unwelcoming and as people take interest in GZ’s case, they are going to look for informative articles about the evidence — not personal attacks on Trayvon.

    • @kllypyn

      These ignorant Zimmerman supporters just don’t have a clue. I wish they’d try running on a real thug and see what happens. What thug runs away from a punk following him? They don’t know anything about a REAL thug. A real hard core thug would have had a gun on him & shot Zimmerman as he ran upon him on the spot… and then he would have went to eat dinner. Real thugs damn sure isn’t going to be saying “I’m begging you”. Real thugs pack their heat at all times. But don’t worry…he’ll meet some hard core thugs in prison. May his pain be great!

    • LeaNder says:

      Well, we have finally fully arrived in the treehouse mindset. I liked Tracy Martin’s response a lot, it surely was to be expected.

      I would like to share a comment by someone who in fact seems to agree Dershowitz’s that this is not a murder case. In spite of that he is among the least opinionated people over at Jeralyn Merrrit’s web base:

      Donald from Hawaii

      Which makes me pretty hopeful that at least some of the people in the jury remember that they were teens too.

      Not long ago Jeralyn dropped a highly biased comment concerning high school suspension. In her time only about 3% got something like that. Strictly it may be true, in my school most tried to fit in well too, out of fear of repression concerning their grades. And we seem to be about the same age. But I am glad that the class mate that started a leaflet campaign concerning the blatent injustice of my suspensions wasn’t of her mindset. He was also a straight A level student and did not need to fear repression for his activites. Thank you Charly, I am still grateful for what you did then. Restored my mental balance at the time.

      I hope I can be back on Tuesday. Almost finished my job.

      • Malisha says:

        What Jeralyn doesn’t add to her comment about the 3% being suspended is this: studies show that Black kids are suspended at rates much MUCH higher than white kids who have done the same things. Furthermore, schools with high percentages of Black kids suspend MUCH MORE than schools with smaller percentages. You do the math. At this point, Jeralyn’s position is just plain racist. She thinks Fogen is to be believed because after all, he’s the whiter defendant in this case. Shame on her for not just admitting she is voting white on this one.

        • LeaNder says:

          Yes, thanks Malisha, that is the reason why I have mixed feelings about the Miami reports.

          I know I should not mention myself in this context, but incidentially none my suspensions would have been possible anymore two years after I left high school. And two were strikingly against the law, something Charly pointed out. One would expect a future lawyer to have more sensibility about these type of issues. What you suggest is ultimately against law too: equal rights.

  50. kllypyn says:

    God i wish i was a better typist please delete my post.

  51. kllypyn says:

    An open letter of support for the Martin Fulton family.

    Dear Martin fulton family. yYour son as you know was not a thug he was just a typical teenager.Don’t let these people get you down. The defense teams tactics will back fire. whether you knew he smoked weed or not is not nmy concern he was a teenager if smoking was a justification for murder then their are some kids Trayvon’s age down the street from me who should be on death row because they smoke a lot of weed when their parent are at work. at this moment they are now grounded because i told their parents on them. Trayvon was a typical teenager and his texts reflect that. zimmerman knows he wasn’t screaming that was obviously a teenagers voice.

    Zimmerpunk knows he wasn’t the one screaming a man with a gun will not scream like that,a kid with just a drink and candy will.he didn’t just kill your son he terrorized and interrogated him before killing him.The jurors will hear that.i don’t know if you know this Trayvon screamed i don’t know at least twice before he was killed. Trayvon was restrained by his shirts and unable to escape when he was killed. Zimmerman knows that as well.

    Trayvon never touched him.and was not capable of doing what he claims. he simply was not strong enough.He and his lawyers also know a kid who got into a couple of fight does not mean he was aggressive. Zimmerman is doing what he has always done trying to defect blame from himself. he is the only person that with a know history of unprovoked aggression aginst other people. Trayvon had no such history. If mark o-scumbag wants to go there then so should you. Zimmerman’s violent history is well documented.Did Trayvon beat up a girlfriend,no. Did Trayvon attack a female undercover police officer,no.Did Trasyvon thow a women acraoss a room,no. Did trayvon harrass his neighbors,no. did Trayvon chase an 8 year old boy home,no.

    As you already know Trayvon was a good kid who did the dumb the things that most teenagers do.but we all learn from those things and become responsible adults at least most of us do. Zimmerman never has.

    Weed cannibis marijuana,what ever you want to call it. teenagers do experinent my sister did my nephews did and even though they are now in their twentys 2 of them still smoke on occasion.Certain dirt bags are going to say trayvon was a thug because he smoked weed. If they want to go there here are the results of some research i did. 76% of white adults in this country smoke or have smoked weed.11%of blacks smoke or have smoked weed.9%of hispanics smoke or have smoked weed. 2%of asians smoke or have smoked weed. 2%of other ethnic groups smoke or have smoked weed.these figures are from 2007 newer figures aren’t available yet.I doubt there was much of a change sence then.And although i have no proof Zimmerpunk and his brother probably smoked weed. that’s nearly 96,000,000 americans which by Zimmerpunks low life standards are thugs and should die.

    All this from a man with a history of thugary. He even bragged about getting away with crimes on his myspace page so if he wants to go there and paint trayvon was a thug which he wasn’t then all his past acts will come in. Smoking weed doesn’t make him a thug. downl;oading a picture of a gun to his phone doesn’t make him a thug and getting into a couple of fights doesbn’t make him a thug he was innocent and Zimmerpunk knows it.the only they are stopping so low is becaused he and his lawyers know they havent a leg to stand on so they are hoping to taint the jury pool.Most people arent gonna fall for this crap and it may piss off a jury and secure a conviction. Most normal people dont abide killing unarmed kids while they scream for their guy have been through a lot during the past year and the way you have conducted yourselves is an inpiration. what i find really amazing is you have neve bad mouthed zimmerpunk or his family even when responding to bull crap from his lawyers or his crazy messed up family.

    Heres a list of websites i think you should check into seeing if there are grounds for a lawsuit. THE CONSERVATIVE TREEHOUSE. THE UGLY AMERICAN. STORMFRONT. CHIMPOUT. DAVID DUKE. THE WAGIST. RENEWS IT. THE DAILY CALLER. RED STATE. You may not have a case but it wont hurt to find out. there are others but i got so pissed off i stopped looking. Sincerly yours Kelly D Payne

  52. ladystclaire says:

    I find that a lot of people in this country are really upset because, of the outcome of the Jodi Arias trial outcome and, the hardship as well as the effect it has had on the family of the victim. I too feel for the family of Travis Alexander and for Travis himself. but, at the same time we have the murder of a 17 year old kid and, his family who needs some of the same support.

    I know there are some people who want to see Justice for Trayvon and his family but, how many people who support the Alexander family are also supporting the murderer of this AA child? I want more than anything to see this family get justice for Travis but, at the same time I also want Justice for Trayvon and his family.I’m sorry but, I just can’t help but wonder about things like this.

    Dear GOD I hope this defense has not poisoned the minds of those who will sit in judgement of this murdering obese POS. a murder victim is a victim no matter what the color of their skin may be and, when it comes to those who have only begun to live their lives and, are preparing to go out into the world as young men and women, it’s all the more a travesty and a loss not only to the family and friends of the family, it’s a loss to the world. who knows what Trayvon and the 20 little ones in Newtown would have been and, what kind of contributions they could have made to the country and the world as a whole?

    It’s so sad to know that we will never know what great things these kids would have accomplished because of Zimmerman and Lanza those lives are gone forever. Fogen only allowed Trayvon to live for 17 years while he has lived eleven years longer than Trayvon so, I hope it’s GOD’S will that, Fogen will live out the rest of his GOD given time on this earth behind prison bars.

    • Rachael says:

      I sincerely hope you are not saying what I think I am hearing. Are you saying white people are not supportive of Trayvon’s parents and family? That white people are not upset about what is being done to besmirch a dead child and his family? That there are no white moms who want to hold Sybrina in their arms and cry with her for her loss because they can imagine the pain it is to lose a child, white fathers who can’t believe the restraint Tracy shows? Do you think there are no white people who signed that petition? Do you think there were no white people who thought of Trayvon’s family on Christmas, his birthday, Mothers Day?

      I hope that is not what you are saying, but let me assure you, if you are, you are WRONG!!!!

      • Judy75201 says:

        I think what she’s saying is that she fears the same public weight people have expressed about Alexander’s murder won’t be given to Trayvon’s murder. Let’s prove her wrong.

      • Rachael says:

        Actually, I didn’t follow that case so I don’t know what was expressed, but I don’t think that will be a problem. LOL

      • racerrodig says:

        This 57 year old white male helps keep this afire and rewrites songs aplenty.

      • tinytruthseeker says:

        I have made comments similar in thought I think…. and it has little to do with the color of the people supporting the Alexanders or the Martins…. it is more about the ridiculous amount of compassion shown to one family while another is vilified…. I believe my feelings were expressed like this….. “what if Trayvon had been a pretty green eyed Mormon boy” what kind of outrage would we be seeing then?

        • PiranhaMom says:


          What has always bothered me – about myself – is that Trayvon is so perfect. Would I grieve a defect-ridden “punk’ who was murdered equally unfairly? I would hope so. But I just don’t know.

          Color is not the issue with me. Death is. The cutting short of so much promise! The devastation to his parents, brother, extended family, friends!

          But the racial aspect is itself significant – because young black men – and women, too – appear to be targeted by a toxic portion of our society.

          This is the reason that Zimmerman must be convicted – and punished by a long, long sentence. It will not return Trayvon to his family’s loving arms. But it WILL show society that the targeting of black youth will not be tolerated, and such perpetrators WILL be punished.

          I hope that those who came to Professor Leatherman’s forum because it was the antithesis of the racist sites praising Zimmerman; those who felt the loss of this young African American youth personally because of their own racial heritage – and who fear for their children and grandchildren – will stay with us after Zimmerman’s conviction, supporting the site and participating in the discussion and discovery.

          Let the spirit of JUSTICE FOR TRAYVON ultimately become JUSTICE FOR ALL.

          Thank you.

    • ladystclaire says:

      @Rachael, that is NOT what I am saying at all. what I said was that I wonder how many people who are upset and crying about how the jury couldn’t give the family of Travis closure by sentencing Jodi one way or the other, I couldn’t help but wonder how many of them are supporting Zimmerman.

      Now, if I offended anyone here, I’m sorry and this was not my intention. I know all too well that there are some white people who want to see justice done for this victim and his family. Just like I want to see Travis Alexander and his family receive the justice and closure that they so deserve as well.

      Again, I in no way meant what you guys thought I was alluding to. as a matter of fact, I have thanked those of you and other whites who are standing behind this victim and his family. that was just a thought and, I also said that I couldn’t help but wonder how many of those folks were in support of George Zimmerman.

      I’m sorry if you all took what I said the wrong way because, that was in no way, what I meant.

      • Xena says:

        @ladystclaire. People take interest in cases for different reasons.

        …I wonder how many people who are upset and crying about how the jury couldn’t give the family of Travis closure by sentencing Jodi one way or the other, I couldn’t help but wonder how many of them are supporting Zimmerman.

        My honest guess is that they have taken no interest in GZ’s case anymore than they took interest in the Arias case before trial. I had not heard of Jodi Arias before January of this year.

        If GZ had numerous, dedicated supporters, he would not be financially broke and Junior wouldn’t have to whore himself out to third-class media.

      • Rachael says:

        No problem, I just wanted to make sure I understood you were not saying that, because if you were, that is just not the case. This case is obviously racially fueled, but for any parent who loves their child, it goes beyond color, religion, political sides, etc., it goes the the very center of what makes us human, the one thing that brings us together the way nothing else can. It has got to fill any parent’s heart with fear that their child at 17 can’t be out in the evening without their heart being filled with lead. Anyone who has children, knows people who have children, has family, surely will be there for all of Trayvon’s family. I have seen them from all over the world!!! It is senseless violence. It goes beyond boundaries, color, religion or politics. It hits us in our hearts the same way that bullet hit Trayvon in the heart. We will all be there for Trayvon’s family, just as we have all along.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      Yoo-hoo! Caucasian over here, and as soon as I heard that boy’s cries for help I signed the petition and have followed this case. I didn’t find Mr. Leatherman’s site until July or August 2012, but I checked the news and the comments every single day, unable to believe the weird and wild hate that reigned on HP, CNN– outlets I thought were mainstream, but how could such comments be mainstream? The Christian Science Monitor wrote some reasoned articles, as did the New York Times, but the loudest, most frequent voice trumpeting in public is that of the Orlando Sentinel, local to Sanford FL, and its reporters, including its law reporter, have proven over time to be no more than mouthpieces for the defense. Mr. Leatherman was for a long time the only careful, in-depth commentator on this case that I could find, and I have learned a lot about criminal court procedure and Mark O’Mara’s and Donald West’s methods in this case. It has made me think about “system” instead of “circumstances.”

      I have sons the same age and younger than Trayvon; I hear their voices in Trayvon’s cries, and I am horrified that the State of Florida allowed the Sanford PD to bungle and mismanage this case while allowing a flat-out crazy paranoid killer to be out in public, including driving up and down the East Coast with his weapons collection. I am horrified that Sanford PD could hear this child’s life taken and then pretend that their little buddy the killer had committed no crime. I am horrified that Florida’s legislature has pushed for the dissemination of deadly weapons in that state– I had no idea a million residents conceal-carry– and enacted the Stand-Your-Ground law that encourages killers to kill. I am upset that Florida’s “system” failed Trayvon, and then his family, and then the public at large, until 2,300,000 people signed a petition requesting that due process be applied to a dangerous killer, newspapers all over the world wrote about it, and the Florida governor finally realized that the Stand-Your-Ground law was not so untouchable as to prevent a murderer from being charged with a crime.

      I’m not denying that racism fueled Florida’s law system failures and fogen himself, but any human being feels for the Fultons and Martins. Any decent human being, that is.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Six decent Floridians — as of a yet unknown mix on gender, race, and age — will band together to render a big fat guilty verdict for Fogen.

      • thejbmission says:

        Hi Cercando Luce,
        Excellent comment. I totally agree with you. I know that this case was racially fueled in the beginning but for me, this case isn’t so much as a racial case but as a case of right or wrong. What GZ did is just wrong and illegal. Period.
        As a decent human being who has raised boys, I was appalled by Sanford, Florida’s decision to not charge Zimmerman with a crime. This was a no-brainer. If an off-duty cop would have killed a kid, you can believe he would have been held accountable, but not GZ. Makes one wonder.

      • racerrodig says:

        Well said and you’re in about the same position I’m in.

        • cielo62 says:

          I’m white Hispanic and MAN am I glad GZ redefined himself as Afro-Peruvian!

          Sent from my iPod

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Well he was a closet Afro-Peruvian prior to 2/26/12, I’ll bet it came as a very big surprise to Chief Bill Lee and Wolfinger when gz became Openly Afro-Peruvian sometime after April.

      • Malisha says:

        Even three decent Floridians and three of any other kind of person who happens to serve on a jury could make this case work. Because even if all six of them go in there believing, “we should let the guy go because after all the kid was a thug trying to jack up some innocent white guy and he would have turned out a criminal behind bars for the rest of his life anyhow costing me all my hard-earned money,” there is going to be a process in that courtroom and Judge Nelson is going to be in charge of that process. And it will have a powerful effect. Take any one of the six, and let’s ascribe to that hypothetical juror both a sort of closet racist mind-set and a full knowledge of the hateful filth O’Mara and West have been spreading around.

        Juror Ordinaire sits there and hears:

        The videos of Trayvon simply buying some skittles and a drink and heading home, with or without a “thuggery sway” in his lanky step.

        And the juror thinks, “hey I was right, there’s a little thug in training, yup.”

        Then he hears the full explanation of the NEN tape, with all the words and all their implications.

        And he thinks, “hey wait a minute: how come that guy’s so riled up and all. I musta seen a thousand a those little punks ahead of me in line at the 7-11 or over at the gas station takin their sweet ole time makin’ me wait at the pump and I ain’t never called no poleece.”

        And then he hears witnesses describe interactions between Trayvon and Fogen and he starts to think, “hey y’know what? I been sold a bill a goods by them newspaper articles. That kid ain’t done nuttin to get killed over.”

        And then he sees a few witnesses he regards as sort of authority figures (one’s a teacher, like that) being sincere, calm and clear. and he starts to think, “that sounds right…sounds right to me.”

        And then he hears the description of the time-line and he thinks: “You can’t tell ME that kid was hiding in some bushes and jumped out talkin’ about you gotta problem homie! I wasn’t born yesterday. Who do you think I am, gonna feed me some stupid crap like that and think I’ll swallow it whole. I gotta brain; my daddy didn’t raise no morons!”

        And then… [some more real evidence]
        and then… [some more real evidence]
        and then… [and lots more real evidence]
        and then…

        Five out of six of those jurors, no matter how they came into that courtroom, it is my guess that they are going OUT of that courtroom having figured things out a lot better than Jeralyn Merritt. And more power to them.

    • manberk says:

      I think the Arias trial may have helped TMs cause. I certainly took note and reacted to their attempt to vilify the victim. I’m sure the masses feel the same way. It will be an easy connection for people to make in a few weeks.

      When the facts and the states case are layer out, and humanity it brought back into this I have a feeling their campaign will not be so easy. It’s one thing to post on a website where no one can respond. It will be different in front of the jury. For proof see what happened to Don West when he took the stand verus Bernie. He’s walking around with 2 anuses now. It will be target practice when we go live!

      • Malisha says:

        AND in the Casey Anthony trial, they did NOT know for sure that she killed that baby. In both the Arias and Fogen trials, that question (is this in fact the KILLER) is not in issue at all. ALL that is left to determine was whether the killing, which we KNOW was done by the defendant, was LEGALLY justifiable.

        Justifiable because the victim was allegedly an abuser? NOT.
        Justifiable because the victim was allegedly a thug? Even more-so NOT.

        It comes right down to whether Fogen can PROVE self-defense by any “reasonable” margin; he cannot and he knows it. AND the prosecutor has some evidence we have not even seen yet and it is NOT NOT NOT exculpatory.

  53. Two sides to a story says:

    This is off-topic but a long time coming and has some relevance to this case:

    Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s office profiles Latinos, according to judge

    Read more:

    • Put his a** in JAIL!

    • Rachael says:

      My son and daughter-in-law are planning to move to Phoenix. I left there 20 years ago after spending 35 years there and I’ll tell you, that sheriff is one of the main reasons I will not go back there.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I have friends there but don’t particular feel at ease there. I recall a more “live and let live” atmosphere in the past, but the racists have really gotten out of hand since Napolitano resigned as governor to go to Homeland Security. Embarrassing situation for a lot of decent people who don’t support Arpaio or Gov. Brewer, especially considering the long history of Hispanic and Native American culture there. A lot of folks are going to be happy when those two disappear.

  54. colin black says:


    I did read on another site that they are asking for a six week delay and, this is just me, I think this trial should be tried at the federal level, since the defense is playing before their FELLOW RACIST. what they are doing is inciting the racist of this country and, involving them in this trial where they have no business to even voice their opinion in this defense of their racist poster child, Fogen.


    Give them a fifty year delay/continuance.

    With the provisio that foggagge bail is revoked for breaching his conditions .
    Slander is a criminal offence an slandering a dead CHILD EVEN MORE SO.
    So he should be slung in the slammer with his enableing scheme team ..
    In fact give hime a 100 year delay

  55. Hello everyone, we are back after being away for a while today, that you for your patience, and Fred will be here momentarily.

  56. LLMPapa says:

    A real thug….

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I love this picture. And I put a link to it from my FB about how GZLC violated the FL rules of evidence and how he concentrated only on texts he could spin negatively and left it open to the public. Thank you LLMPapa!

    • Rachael says:

      I don’t see anything

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Maybe your computer settings block it?

      • Rachael says:

        I see it now and I want to send it to MO’M and ask him why he doesn’t show THAT picture the effn SNAKE!!!! Wait, why would I offend snakes like that. I can’t even think of an appropriate term. That is SUCH a beautiful picture with such sweet text, it makes me want to give MO’M an undisputed broken nose myself!!!! OMG, that sick f.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Snakes are much nicer than GZLC!

    • racerrodig says:

      Damn !! Scared the BeJesus out of me when I opened it….

  57. tonydphotog says:

    It’s interesting that the documents the defense posted yesterday are either not there anymore, or they’re low resolution thumbnails in .pdf format. Either way, I never believed the defense was being honest. Why start now?

    Both photos of Trayvon flipping the bird, look to me like it’s the same face on both photos. Obviously manipulated, I thought the ears looked identical in both photos.

    So, I searched online for the photos of Trayvon flipping the bird, to compare them. I was surprised to find two versions of the one with the closet behind him – one flipping the bird, the other with his hands by his side and not even in the photo. I’m now even more convinced that the photos in discovery are fake!

    I, also, think his graduation photos are fake. Not only does fogen look manipulated (double chin removed, collar blends into his neck, black woman in front of him), but the background doesn’t match. He looks like his photo was taken with a digital camera, while the background was a photo that was scanned. If you look at either graduation photo, you will see dust specs that a scanner picks up. Both photos show an “exit” sign, but I can’t read the word “exit” on either. Could be that the photo is low resolution, but I can read all the other words around it.

    I’m completely sickened by fogen, his family, and his defense!! How can they do this to a child?!?!? A poor, innocent child!

    • Rachael says:

      I have a picture of me flipping a bird on my phone. Do I deserve to be shot?

    • DruDo says:

      Tony, in reference to fogen’s “graduation” photo, I don’t know if that’s an authentic photo or not, but I understand there are some schools which will allow a person to wear a cap/gown and attend the ceremony, even though they failed and aren’t actually graduating, if it’s the class they should have graduated with. It’s supposedly to alleviate embarrassment for the person who failed. In fogen’s case, he’s standing there grinning like the doofus he is and pretending it’s real. Just like he pretended he was a real cop and a real hero for detaining and killing a black kid. He carries the charade even further by having a “graduation” party thrown by his buddy Osterwhatever. Who the hell does crazy sh** like that? Oh, wait…sound familiar? Casey Anthony did the same thing. Part of fogen’s problem is that he seems to convince himself that if he pretends it’s real, then, whoa, it MUST be real. He’s nothing but a little fat weasel with beady little pig eyes who lives in his own little fantasy world. I hate that I even said such a thing about anybody, but I seriously abhor that creep. He and his slimy attorneys and family are all a bunch of scammers and grifters.

      Trayvon Martin was so much better than fogen could ever hope to be and his parents are miles above the fogen bunch in dignity, class and decency. What a damned shame that boy died because of a low-life like George Zimmerman.

      There…I had to get some of this out because this recent round of poison put out by that nasty bunch is just beyond the pale. Sorry, folks.

      • Rachael says:

        I read your post and once again wonder why the refuse at the outhouse back this guy. Aren’t they the ones who protest the loudest about self-esteem and all kids getting an award? Aren’t THEY the ones who say that is wrong, kids have to learn you have to work hard to win and the all kids are winners, not keeping score, they all get a trophy or a ribbon is what is wrong with kids today? But it is okay for GZ to dress up in his cap and gown, grin like a Cheshire cat and they think that is fine?

        Those hypocrites!!!

        It is obvious the ONLY thing Trayvon did wrong that night was be black – I mean it can’t be because there is a picture in his phone with a gun because you know, guns are wonderful, there would be so much less crime if everyone had one, blah, blah, blah –

        Unless you are a black kid – then you can’t even have a picture of one in your phone.

        Only WHITE thugs can carry guns and walk with their class they didn’t graduate.

      • Trained Observer says:

        At the collegiate level (even a tiddly- wink school like Seminole State College), anyone who hasn’t completed coursework should be barred from participation in commencement exercises. Imagine how students (who knew what a flunking doofus he is) felt when they saw him prancing down the aisle grinning like a fool.

    • tonydphotog says:

      Here’s the link I saw the photo of Trayvon flipping the bird. Scroll down to the last entry, and you’ll see the photo I’m talking about. It shows both photos in animation.

      • DruDo says:

        tony, thanks for link. The lengths some will go to portray TM in a negative light is amazing. Wonder how many times fogen flipped people the bird? But, of course, that would be ok since he’s “special”.

      • FactsFirst says:

        Here’s the original unaltered photo from Trayvon’s myspace page…

        Notice 3 things… 1st, Trayvon’s hat, it’s turned to the back.. Secondly, no tattoo… Finally, no middle finger… I wish I knew how to do a side by side by side photo… This is ridiculous…

      • Malisha says:

        What’s with blocking out the middle finger like it’s obscene? Are we all nuts now? What’s wrong with a finger? Should we have our middle fingers amputated or dress them in something to hide them? How about if we all agree never to pronounce the sound “F” so we can never say “Yuck”?

        Just hold up ALL three middle fingers (index, middle, ring) and say: “Read between the lines”!

      • Malisha says:

        HAHA, as if you keep your facial expression absolutely the same when you’re staring at a camera and when you’re flipping the bird. OMG it is so lame!

        • PiranhaMom says:


          Not only is the facial expression identical, but every element lines up with the background in Photo “A” AND with “Fake Patchwork Photo “B.”

          Further, if you wanted to send out a flippin’ bird, you’d do it with an enraged expression or a great big grin.

          Not the benign, serious outlook we see in this photo.

    • kllypyn says:

      I’ve seen the original moths ago he didn’t flip the bird in that photo.

    • ladystclaire says:

      If you’ve seen the video by LLMPAPA, he shows how the video of the fight and one of what is suppose to be Trayvon, along with a copy of his autopsy. his autopsy states that, the only markings on his body were on the right side of his body. the kid in the video as well as the photo of him flipping his middle finger, both have tattoos on the left arm and, Tray’s were on his *RIGHT* arm.

      The defense has not only lied about these things, they have presented false and misleading information in more ways than one and, I hope the prosecution call them out on this because, one would think Mark and The Donald would have a little bit of common sense enough, to read the autopsy report instead of only reading what SunDunce Cracker and the rest of the misidiots send him to read.

      Also, the kid in the fighting video looks to be older than Trayvon as well. this is false information in more ways than one, that the defense has put out through the Lap Dog via OS.

  58. colin black says:

    looolooo says:

    May 24, 2013 at 3:01 am

    Spent several hours in Portsmouth back in 2005. A very lovely town indeed. Will be visiting again later this year. Maybe we can hook up for a swift half.

    Sure thing loo its Pompey Uk thought not Portsmouth America.

    Its the only Island City in the UK never far from the sea.

    I dont drink but would love to meet a fellow fellow human whom beleives in inaleble human rights even for aleins.

    I can maybe get you my email addy Fred has it an he has my permission to let you access it.
    An Ill email my land line an mobile numbers an your welcome to call anytime.

    Unless your a mad serial killer /stalker in wich case I will give you my bank managers details.

  59. trina cosbie says:

    Trayvon supporters get on the blogs & spew how irrelevant all this new info is. I find “this proves what exactly” question effective…lol….no one ever has a relevant comeback!! 🙂

  60. trina cosbie says:

    These sleazy tactics are coming from a seasoned divorce lawyer………no wonder……

  61. Malisha says:

    It’s illogical. With zero evidence of self-defense, and with self-defense being the only possible defense to the murder charge, the defense counsels’ giggly excitement about month-old minor marijuana use, bragging tweets unrelated to either hatred of whites or intents to kill anybody, miscellaneous middle fingers, teeth (when there was no allegation of biting even on stupid Fogen’s part), etc. etc. are just plain dumb.

    Was Fogen entitled to kill a kid because he (Fogen) thought that the kid might have used drugs, whether or not he was correct?


    Was Fogen entitled to kill a kid because he (Fogen) thought that the kid might mix up some candy (that he did not know the kid HAD) with some drink (ditto) and make some codeine?


    Was Fogen entitled to approach Trayvon to try to stop him from committing sone crime? Not according to the HOA written documentation:

    “Remember always that your responsibility is to report crime. DO NOT take any risks to prevent a crime or try to make an arrest. The responsibility for apprehending criminals belongs to the police officers.” Page 40, #10, HOA pamphlet.

    Frankly this stuff doesn’t worry me too much. Whatever jury is seated will be carefully monitored by Judge Nelson and she knows how to run a trial. Most juries are actually trying to abide by the law as it is presented to them by the judge in the case. The Sanford racist contingent is not terribly intelligent; BDLR has lived down there quite long enough to be able to figure things out; he was not born yesterday.

    And of course, the TRUMP CARD: Remember, the State has evidence that is damning and that has not yet been released. It will probably ONLY be used as rebuttal evidence should Fogen be foolish enough to try to put on “evidence” of self-defense. I think we’re going to see a big embarrassing and probably infuriating display of impotence on the part of O’Mara and West. Juries do not like lawyers who are made to look weak and desperate, and that is how these two are going to look once the trial is in full swing. Uh…full sway. I predict a lot of shimmying in the defendant’s chair.

      • Rachael says:

        WTF is WRONG with this guy? Has he never seen a 17 year old’s phone or Facebook before??!!!

        • JustMe says:

          They are pond scum.. I have no words for what they are doing. I only hope BDLR files contempt charges and somehow is able to have them both disbarred.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      if the defendant ‘comes now’ one more time, i shall need an air sickness bag.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I noticed in this one, GZLC disparages the nolimitnigger moniker and gives it negative connotations. Doesn’t that have positive connotations in black culture?

      • texad says:


        There are too many sad and historically abhorrent stories about the early use of the n-word for me to ever describe anything about it’s use as positive. Trayvon’s use of it, however, is more than trumped by GZ’s racist and profanity laced myspace page with HIS moniker “datniggytb”.

      • racerrodig says:

        No worries mate…..Bernie will make a point to make an issue of PhatFogenPhooles Face Book page where he said “…how ’bout datniggyTB?”

        Of course we know he was saying “How about me capping a…”

        He’ll get his…..oh brother will he ever.

      • Jun says:

        I dont know why, but some black folks and also some Hispanics and sometimes Asians have used it to mean something else

        I have been called the N word numerous times by some black and some hispanic and some Asian people

      • Malisha says:

        My kid was in high school and there was the inevitable hostile kid/bully who did various idiotic things. At one point the bully called my kid a “faggot n****r Jew” [my kid is Jewish and white and happens to be heterosexual which I believe was not yet an issue at the point of this event]. So a week later, the bully came to my kid complaining because one of the other kids in the class (who was female, Black and non-Jewish and probably heterosexual although, again, who knows) heard it and repeated it to him while commenting on the ignorance and bigotry of his comment. The funny part was that the guy denied (to this girl) using the N-word and admitted to the homophobic and antisemitic part! Hilarious! Reminded me a little of Fogen smirking while he admitted to Hannity that he had called Trayvon Martin a “fucking punk” rather than a “fucking coon” on the NEN call. What morons!

    • Lynn says:

      It concerns me that MOM says “text messages” and then in parentheses includes facebook, twitter, and other social media.

      The texts were pulled from his phone. The meaning may be misconstrued, but we know they were from his phone.

      Any word on the authenticity of his social media? Will a screen cap and MOM’s word fly in court?

      Or can someone with the knowledge explain whether MOM had a 1) subpoena 2) a court order or 3) a search warrant to obtain this Facebook info?

      It’s the 3rd category that enables you to get comments, photos, and messages.
      Without a verified IP address and permission from FB can he use any of this?

      There is a difference between texts and tweets and posts.

  62. The media is closed mouth when it comes to the NRA & their love for guns but let a 17 yr old black kid have a photo of a gun on his phone &’s GASP! WTF is this ish? It’s questionable if a young black boy have a love for guns? In my neck of the woods white boys carry their rifle in the back of their truck all day long. No one questions a damn thing. But let a black kid have a photo of a gun on his phone and THAT is news worth reporting? As if a photo of a gun in a black hand is exculpatory? GTFOOH!

    • Rachael says:

      No shit. How’s that for irony – or should we just say RACISM!!!!

      • Soulcatcher says:

        I’ve asked several people who have posted some pretty racist things if they have ever traced their family tree, because you never know. That pretty much shuts them up, cause you know they are afraid to, cause what if they were to find out some shit like this…….

        My favorite part, I don’t know why it makes me laugh everytime

        In 1977, at the age of 43, Susie Guillory Phipps applied for a passport. She hadn’t needed one before, and she needed a copy of her birth certificate to obtain one. Susie Phipps went to New Orleans to obtain a copy of her birth certificate from the Division of Vital Records. The clerk took Mrs. Phipps aside and showed her that

        her birth certificate showed the race of both parents as “Col.” – colored. Mrs. Phipps responded with disbelief, shock and later said that “she was sick for 3 days.”

        And the outcome…….a must read…..LOL

        scroll down the read

      • Malisha says:

        This “white woman” who spent half her life in litigation because her parents were “colored” was obviously an obsessive-compulsive nut; anybody who would voluntarily give themselves over to a court battle for no conceivable gain is a mental defective. Whatever the Hell she is I hope nobody else ever is. She should make a whole new race just for her damn self.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I taught in a rural SW school district in which white kids came to school dressed in their camoflauge during hunting season. I’m sure they owned rifles and some probably had their own handguns, and some probably carried rifles in their gun racks when not on school grounds. You’re right – the key is that Trayvon is a black teen.

      • Soulcatcher says:

        Cielo and Malisha, the sad thing about it is, when I saw her name of Guillory, and she was from LA, I had a feeling this B was going to be in my husbands family tree. I told my husband watch as I pulled up info on rootsweb. I already knew that his great grandfathers sister-in-law had married a Guillory, so I knew If I found Marguerite the slave in that tree, that means somewhere there is a connection. And yes she is there. Knowing his great grandparents are always listed as col or negro, who only spoke french creole, and the Guillorys were col or mullatoes, and were from the same area, along with Miss Susie….I don’t know what her deal is, she must be on drugs or sumptin.

    • texad says:


      The more things change the more they remain the same.

      “The problem of the Twentieth Century is the problem of the color-line.”

      – W.E.B. Du Bois, The Souls of Black Folk, 1903

      • Texad,

        My parents took the brunt of Jim Crow and all of it’s ugliness but never once taught us to hate. They taught us to hold our heads high & keep moving forward to a better day. Here it is the 21st century and we’re still experiencing some of the same things my parents went through in the days of Jim Crow. It’s so depressing and so discouraging.

      • operacarla says:

        Hi SouthernGirl2. I’m so sorry that your parents lived and suffered under Jim Crow. The Trayvon Martin murder has shown us that African Americans still live under a terribly unjust and biased legal system. The racist rants spewed on Huffpo are absolutely shocking. My grandparents came in to this country as Italian coal miners. They were very insistent that we respect African Americans as it was the African American coal miners who helped them assimilate. I do think that things are improving as my kids are very colorblind, as are most of their friends of various races. I do believe that the better day that your parents hoped for is getting closer..although through this process we have learned there still lives UGLY racism. God Bless you. Justice for Trayvon!

        • cielo62 says:

          Operacarla- I agree I think each generation is a step forward. Let me give you an example: I was tutoring a 3rd grader after school. We saw two girls get off the elevator with a cart. My student was excitedly waving and calling out “Alisha”. I asked which one was Alisha. She says “the one with the pony tail”. Alisha ALSO happened to be the only one that was black. But she saw a friend with a pony tail. It’s slow in coming but it’s coming.

          Sent from my iPod

    • Nef05 says:

      “White man makes guns? No problem. Black rapper says “guns”? Congressional hearing. ”

      Chris Rock
      2004 – “Never Scared”

      • Nef05

        How did you get in my head? I’ve been meaning to go find that video but always got distracted. Chris Rock was spot on!

      • Nef05 says:

        That quote has been swirling around my head ever since the photo came out. It’s absurd, when all these folks are running around defending their right to give their own little kids these “rite of passage” type guns, all these kids lately who have been killing themselves, siblings and friends with these guns and others they find in their homes. THEN, when they see a PICTURE of a black kid associated with a gun, it’s a justification for his murder?

        The hypocrisy is breathtaking!

  63. groans says:

    I had to look up the “res gestae” thing, because it sounds so much like hearsay exceptions in modern rules of evidence. And I thought the many “model rules” that were drafted and then adopted to varying degrees by states were meant to FREE everyone from the old-time Latin phrases. So I Googled “res gestae florida,” hoping to find an article on some Florida lawyer’s website.

    The first thing I found included the following – which I suspect might explain O’Mara’s mention of the concept:

    A famous law professor once told us, that if you get called on in court and you don’t know the answer to something, just state that its Res Gestae. Most Attorneys have no idea what this is, and they are usually too embarrassed to admit it.


  64. manberk says:

    Ain’t it ironic that people who give their 3 years guns for their birthdays and most likely have gun avatar on whatever social media theyre hatin from, take issue with a picture of a gun?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Definitely. And probably a lot of MJ users calling TM a druggie as well.

    • ladystclaire says:

      @manberk, are you kidding, shit some of these gun worshipers look at giving a GUN to their young sons and grandsons a right of passage. these people have an undying love for their guns and, that’s the truth.

  65. GZ legal just tweeted this. Watch Rene Stutzman have an article published in 3-2-1-


    Click to access 052413_reply_to_response_evidentiary.pdf

    • Rachael says:

      The need for voice identification is kind of bullshit anyway. Just a grain of common sense.

      Scream Scream
      Guy on top seen standing up and walking away.

    • Jun says:

      I read one paragraph and it was a waste of time

      So Robbie the Racist is a audio expert and so is Papa Zim but a person who is trained in audio analysis and is accurate is not real science

      The audio expert is going to be believed because he is accurate and people can tell from their own ears that it sounds like a kid screaming for help

      Everyone has a unique voice and the voice changes with age and it’s really easy to tell it’s not Fogen screaming for help or pleading for his life

      and when are they finna make up their minds? They have experts, they dont have experts, the experts have to be flown in from Shanghai

      Just wait it’s coming, Omara is going to say DNA is no longer forensics

      • lurker says:

        I read the whole thing. Interesting that the defense is claiming that the testimony of experts would be prejudicial and confusing to the jury. The cellphone pics and texts on the other hand are apparently conclusive and non-prejudicial.

        Just heard an attorney giving opinion on the news. He pointed to the purpose of entering the cellphone stuff in evidence. If the intent is to demonstrate that Z had a rep for violence, they have the option of introducing that through witness testimony. Their problem is that they cannot come up with any such witnesses because that rep did not exist.

  66. Rachael says:

    AFAIK, the maximum penalty for conviction on jury tampering and obstruction of justice is 10 years imprisonment and a $250,000 fine on each count.

    How many counts would you say there are here? Well let’s see, they sent out 500 notices for jury duty – That is 5,000 years and $125,000,000.00.

    • ladystclaire says:

      Both the Grand Dragon(O’mara) and the Grand Wizard (West) should be charged with all you’ve listed above and, that’s the truth. the state of Florida should not allow these two A’holes to get away with this and, neither should the Florida Bar.

      • DruDo says:

        Lady, I agree, but Florida seems to have an overabundance of sleazy lawyers and they just keep getting away with the most outrageous things. I’m beginning to wonder if brains are sun-baked or the powers to be just don’t care. Margaritas & sharks. Cue Jimmy Buffett.

        Off topic, but wonder about your “St. Claire”. That’s a name often used as the middle name of females in my family

  67. ay2z says:

    O’Mara wants not just the jury sequestered, but the jury pool of 500 people, sequestered also.

    clickorlando has the story

    George Zimmerman’s attorney says he is going to ask a judge to sequester not only the jury but the jury pool in the upcoming murder trial of the neighborhood watch leader.

    Attorney Mark O’Mara said Thursday that may involve sequestering 500 potential jurors in order to find six people who can serve on the jury.

    O’Mara says he hasn’t ever heard of 500 people being sequestered, but he says the Zimmerman case has attracted an unusual amount of publicity. He says he worries that the publicity will influence potential jurors.

    This another sensational headline maker to keep the media ratings up and his media happy?

    • Rachael says:

      Too bad that entire county wasn’t sequestered BEFORE he did all this crap.

    • DruDo says:

      Is O’Mara mentally stunted? Isn’t he responsible for the “unusual amount of publicity”? He’s hoping HIS publicity crap will influence the jury.

    • Lynn says:

      It could take weeks to pick a jury. What’s MOM thinking? That JN is going to hit up the Extended Stay of Sandford with a request for 500 rooms? I like Aussie’s idea of sequestering MOM instead.

      • Rachael says:

        Preferably in a 6 by 8 feet cell with steel or brick walls and a barred door that locks from the outside.

  68. ay2z says:

    oh oh, am in moderation, sorry for whatever.

  69. ay2z says:

    Motion in Limine to prevent any third party statements from being used by the defense team.

    For example, “it was an accident’.

    We haven’t heard O’Mara use that, have we? He couldn’t be hoping no one remembers to submin a motion in limine before trial to prevent him from doing so?

    Food for thought, how will this be used to defend the defendant?

    • Rachael says:

      The way I look at this is that perhaps Sybrina was willing to give the benefit of the doubt and DID mean what she said – that it GZ hadn’t meant to shoot him, but things got out of hand.

      In spite of chasing after him with the motive of these azzles and oons are always getting away, I never really believed it was his intent to shoot him either.

      However, GZ pretty much told me I was wrong when he said he had no regrets, wouldn’t do things any differently and then said his God’s plan stuff. At that point I knew it was NO accident.

      • texad says: