News about the site, jury selection process and latest news in Zimmerman and Arias cases

Thursday, May 23, 2013

Good afternoon:

Crane-Station and I are combining our websites, so you will be seeing her articles on a regular basis.

We are putting together a plan to live-blog each morning and afternoon session of GZ’s trial similar to the way we covered the last motion hearing. We will do the same for the hearing on May 28th.

I will post an article 30 minutes before each session to preview it and update everyone. The article will have a link to livestream coverage.

We are soliciting your comments and recommendations, so please let us know what you would like us to do.

We will use the hearing next Tuesday, May 28th, to fine tune our approach.

I do not yet know whether jury selection will be livestreamed. Hopefully, it will so that we can share our thoughts regarding each juror.

I have much to teach regarding the art of jury selection.

I hope the Court permits the public to link to the juror questionnaires for easy reference during individual voir dire, but privacy concerns may prevail over our desire to know as much as possible about each juror and make informed choices about cause and peremptory challenges. This also would allow us to more accurately evaluate the performance of the lawyers.

Individual voir dire, as the name implies, involves questioning prospective jurors individually out of the presence of the others in order to prevent their answers from potentially influencing or poisoning the minds of other jurors. For example, this is the only way to effectively question prospective jurors regarding what information about the case they have been exposed to, from what sources, and whether they have formed an opinion about the case, the guilt or innocence of the accused, and the lawyers representing each side.

Personal questions regarding whether anyone has been a victim of a crime or accused of a crime also should be asked out of the presence of other jurors. Whether we will be permitted to observe that process remains to be seen.

Keep in mind that there is no limit to the number of challenges for cause that each side may assert. A challenge for cause is a formal request to the Court to excuse a prospective juror on the ground that they cannot or will not follow the jury instructions, which will be the law of the case. For example, a prospective juror who says she cannot presume the defendant innocent, given what she knows about the case, would be challenged for cause by the defense and excused for cause by the judge. The same result would happen to a prospective juror challenged for cause by the State, if he said that he had already decided that the defendant was innocent because TM was the aggressor and he had a right to kill him.

On the other hand, if either or both prospective jurors expressed less certainty and said they could put aside their personal beliefs and base their verdict only on the evidence admitted by the Court, the challenge for cause would be denied.

This unhappy result for the party that lost the challenge for cause would probably result in the use of a peremptory challenge to excuse the prospective juror. With three important exceptions, the party exercising a peremptory challenge does not have to give a reason to support or justify the challenge. The three exceptions are race, gender and religion.

You can reasonably expect the State will object to the defense using a peremptory challenge against a Black prospective juror. To survive the challenge, the defense will have to convince Judge Nelson that they have a reason independent of the prospective juror’s race to support the challenge.

Unless Judge Nelson increases the number of peremptory challenges, each side will get 3. A 6-person jury will decide the case.

For more information, click on Jury Selection in the Categories column on the right side of the web page or click here.

Finally, here’s a link to the latest from the Orlando Sentinel: New evidence in George Zimmerman case: Trayvon texted about being a fighter.

Rene Stutzman and Jeff Weiner breathlessly write:

The text messages about fighting may be the most damaging to the state.

Zimmerman says he acted in self-defense when he shot Trayvon, an unarmed black 17-year-old, in Sanford, Feb. 26, 2012.

Zimmerman described Trayvon to police as an aggressive young man who punched him, knocking him to the ground then climbed on top and began hammering his head onto a sidewalk.

In one text message Trayvon sent Nov. 22, 2011, he wrote about his unnamed opponent, “he got mo hits cause in da 1st round he had me on da ground an I couldn’t do ntn.”

In another text send Dec. 12 he acknowledged earning a reputation in the neighborhood – although because words were blacked out, it’s not clear what his reputation was. His reputation came, he wrote, because of “Duh way I fight nd duh golds (teeth) I had last year.”

Trayvon’s text messages also show that he was interested in guns. A few days before the shooting, he wrote an unidentified friend, “U wanna share a .380”

And about a week before that, he texted a young Miami woman who’s been described as his girlfriend, “U gotta gun?”

Her response: yes, although she did not have possession of it. “It my mommy but she buy for me,” the young woman wrote.

On November 22, 2011, three months before he was killed, he wrote a friend that his mother had ordered him to move out and that he had gotten in trouble for cutting classes.

“I promise my mom just told me I gotta move,” he wrote. Two minutes later, he wrote, “Da police caught me outta school.”

Circuit Judge Debra S. Nelson must now decide whether to allow jurors to learn about the text messages and photos. In paperwork filed earlier this month, Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda asked her to ban them, describing them as irrelevant.

Latest word on Jodi Arias: Jurors resumed deliberations this morning after reporting yesterday that they were deadlocked.


I hate to hassle people for money, but contributions have been lagging this month.

Writing articles every day and maintaining the integrity and safety of this site from people who would like nothing better than to silence us forever is a tough job requiring many hours of work.

If you like this site, please consider making a secure donation via Paypal by clicking the yellow donation button in the upper right corner just below the search box.

Thank you,


441 Responses to News about the site, jury selection process and latest news in Zimmerman and Arias cases

  1. Tee says:

    This guy is tanking on the stand, BDL is ripping him apart!

  2. The Green Team page on Facebook is said to be from Florida and others on that page said they also are from the area. A chosen few have been calling O’Mara on a hotline number to give information of what is said on Facebook pages. They also have mentioned to hopefully receive jury subpoenas to serve as a Juror in this case. One of the questions I wish they would ask the jurors in this case. “Have you ever been on Social Media sites to discuss the case of George Zimmerman prior to this date?” That would probably eliminate anyone from Florida.

    David P has gone viral with everything the Defense team released yesterday on Facebook. He also made this page a topic for discussion on In-Session Events page. They are smearing worse than ever in the name of George Zimmerman to taunt and ridicule the supporters of Trayvon Martin. Some Trayvon Martin supporters now fear for the privacy on Facebook that do not dare enter these pages anymore to discuss their support for Trayvon Martin’s family. Please sign this Petition !

    I can’t imagine how the parents feel right now because as a supporter for Trayvon and his family is very angry with O’Mara with this move. This is the first time in my 65 years of life that I ever seen this type of move by the Defense Team of a Murderer! Monies donated on a website for his defense and now this. This is so underhanded, I hope somebody steps in and stop this madness. He made a mockery out of the word “Justice” to retaliate against all those who put the Awareness out in the media to arrest Zimmerman! This is so wrong!

    Can somebody please explain a Florida Statute to me.

    Chapter 90.404 Character evidence; when admissible.—

    (1) CHARACTER EVIDENCE GENERALLY.—Evidence of a person’s character or a trait of character is inadmissible to prove action in conformity with it on a particular occasion, except:
    (a) Character of accused.—Evidence of a pertinent trait of character offered by an accused, or by the prosecution to rebut the trait.
    (b) Character of victim.—
    2. Evidence of a character trait of peacefulness of the victim offered by the prosecution in a homicide case to rebut evidence that the victim was the aggressor.

    • Rachael says:

      This is just too disgusting. Something must be done.

    • Rachael says:

      Also, if you could please re-post this on the new one that is up so it won’t get missed because this is important.

    • Malisha says:

      One question for the jurors should be: Would you agree to allow law enforcement to check your IP address to see if you had logged into blogs or social media related to this case? So then people who were prepared to say, “never did” might think twice…

  3. Fred’s got a new post in the works, up in an hour, he’s gonna slam this latest news release stunt. Ouch!

    Ow Ow Owwwwww…

    • Rachael says:

      I can’t wait!

    • fauxmccoy says:

      crane — somehow your ‘ow ow owwwww’ reminded me of this bit of wackiness… there seems to be a flash problem with audio, so i hope this comes through alright.

      behold! frank zappa singing ‘ring of fire’

      ow ow owwww!

      • Audio and video both beautiful, love Frank Zappa! Perfect, thanks so much!

        • fauxmccoy says:

          a unique pairing of two music originals ….. owww owww owww

          (i just got a new macbook pro and am having to make some adjustments to get everything working the way i want. glad the audio worked for you, we consider this version priceless in our home.)

          oww oww owwww!

          • OT, while we are waiting, I love this and wanted to share. Simon makes fun of the gospel singer, but then…

          • fauxmccoy says:

            fabulous crane and thanks for sharing! either you or the choir inspired my flash audio problems to resolve – praises be!

          • BwaHaHA!

            Looks like @ rzimmermanjr blocked me on Twitter, and I have never sent him a single Tweet! Well, in his defense though, I blocked him weeks ago, just for the hell of it, LOL.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            crane says
            Looks like @ rzimmermanjr blocked me on Twitter, and I have never sent him a single Tweet! Well, in his defense though, I blocked him weeks ago, just for the hell of it, LOL.[/quote]

            sounds like OCD runs in their family, eh?

            ‘the family that obsesses together undresses together’? naaaah, that just ain’t right now is it? 😉

          • I guess. Don’t know. Never had a run-in with the brother at all, nor do I wish to.

            I can see defending my own brother, but I would not do it with open hate and bigotry. I would be coming from a place of love. But that’s just me.

      • Rachael says:

        Thanks. That was great.

  4. FactsFirst says:

    The video of Trayvon refereeing a fight is BULLSHIT! O’Haha found that video on the internet! The guy they say is TRAYVON doesn’t even LOOK LIKE HIM! The defense should be ashamed of themselves…

    • Rachael says:

      It was probably sent to him from some refuse at the outhouse.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      There’s not enough detail in the picture to determine who, if anyone, the person is. There were other people there who were taking pictures with their phones and devices, so better pictures may be around.

  5. Surrealdreamer says:

    Omara and West make me sick. I try to be fair and realize they are just trying to defend their client but I am sorry I think these are horrible heartless people and they are what give lawyers a bad name.

    Putting everything else aside, text messages, all of it. For me anyway it comes down to the DNA. If Trayvon had done what the Fogen claims he would have had Fogens DNA all over him.

    This is from an article I had copied and pasted to reference back to as I followed the case. It was for me personally I am not sure who exactly to give credit to. I know it was from shortly after the DNA stuff was released in the case. It is as follows……

    George Zimmerman is in a bloody mess. The killer of Trayvon Martin claims that he was in a life-and-death struggle with the unarmed teenager. But DNA tests are not exactly bearing that out. Yes, they prove the two were in close proximity. One stain on the shirt that Trayvon wore underneath the hoodie was a DNA match to Zimmerman. But these tests raise more questions about (or poke more holes in) Zimmerman’s story.

    Despite claims that Trayvon grabbed Zimmerman’s gun, Trayvon’s DNA was not found on the weapon or its holster. Despite claims that Trayvon pummeled Zimmerman in the face and the head, none of Zimmerman’s DNA was found on Trayvon’s hoodie. Not even on the cuffs or the sleeves.

    And then there are Zimmerman’s shirt and jacket.

    There were 47 stains tested for the presence of blood on Zimmerman’s shirt and jacket. Of the 16 on his shirt, 14 “gave chemical indications for the presence of blood.” All matched Zimmerman’s DNA profile. Of the 31 stains tested on the jacket, 17 “gave chemical indications for the presence of blood.” Nine of the 17 matched Zimmerman’s DNA profile. The remaining eight are nothing short of curious.

  6. Malisha says:

    Now we will see a motion from the defense (probably written by the Westie) asking for sanctions against the prosecutor because he mixed up right and left! They will say that the new evidence that the tattoo was on the other arm has necessitated them finding a whole nother expert who wants to testify from Nigeria by telephone — as soon as they get the money from the sanctions to pay for the call and buy the expert a new cell phone.

    • Jun says:

      They are writing that motion as well as the motion for continuance because the state just released witness 18’s statements to them and their expert in race relations, Robbie The Racist, will have to testify by Skype because he charges to much

    • BwaHahahahaaaa…

    • Cercando Luce says:

      I have gotten emails from that expert in Nigeria– gotta WIRE the money over first.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Expert from Nigeria! 😀 You know all the implications!

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Strange country that Nigeria, I used to get emails almost daily about former ministers needed my bank account number to transfer millions of dollars and offering me hefty sums for my assistance. I kept forwarding them to the AG asking him to advise me if they were legitimate offers. I never heard from either party again. Oh well, such are the travails of life.

  7. Jun says:

    Some may not like this but I think Stutz is a bloodclot idiot

    None of the texts help the defendant at all and prove anything regarding Trayvon’s actions that night

    It’s futile

    Not only are the texts not very clear what is said, there is no concrete evidence as to who wrote it, and what the meaning was for

    For all we know, they could be talking about fighting in a video game, like Tekken or a UFC fighting game

    They could have been talking about horse playing fighting and Trayvon was being sarcastic

    And even if it was truly made by Trayvon and it is about a fight, it was a fair one on one fight, where both sides agreed to have a fight, so that truly does not prove assault, and, it also shows Trayvon is a damn weakling and a wimp, so there is no way he could have attacked Fogen in the manner he claimed, especially since Trayvon got owned by a kid his size and his age, according to the texts so it makes Fogen’s story even more bloodclot stupid and ridiculous

    On top of that, it opens the door on all of Fogen’s history, which includes:

    1) Molesting and attempting to rape his cousin
    2) Kicking a dog
    3) Beating up a woman at his bouncer job for no reason and was described as Mr. Hyde and losing his cool easily
    4) Attacking police officers
    5) Harassing and bullying coworkers
    6) Speaking racistly of Mexicans and talking about attacking and killing Mexicans and calling them punks and that Fogen was the real thug
    7) Talking about skipping charges and getting others to take the fall (much like how he is trying to frame Trayvon)
    8) Scheming and lying to the court of law and law enforcement officers
    9) Putting out newsletters targeting black kids
    10) Terrorizing a young black kid, playing judge and jury to the kid, and accusing him of stealing a bike when it was not ever stolen and never apologizing for his actions
    11) Stalking and threatening a motorist
    12) Owning gang tattoos
    13) Abusing a mixture of prescription drugs
    14) Threatening and being aggressive to numerous people in his complex, while patrolling with his gun

    I am sure there is more but I could not possibly list them all

    • Rachael says:

      That was a very good video clip. That defense lawyer, Gene Nichols, feels the same way as Corey. He is not only a defense lawyer but he’s President of the Florida Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers and even HE said he would not go where MO’M is going. He also said that there is only ONE reason for MO’M to be doing this, and it is to taint the jury pool (which, of course, we already know) and that no one really cares about this crap from over two years ago.

      Honest to God, I do not know how MO’M sleeps at night. Even his own profession sees him as sleaszy.

      And like Angela Corey says, he is hurting everyone in his attempt to hurt a dead kid who can’t defend himself. I know he thinks that by demonizing Trayvon and inflicting pain on his family that this somehow makes his client look better or less guilty, but he by being so sleazy, it actually hurts not only Trayvon and Trayvon’s parents, it hurts him, his case, GZ and the entire legal system.

      I don’t know why he thinks this is a good tactic or that he is acting in good faith to help his client and again, only brings himself and his entire profession down.

      I wish more people like this Gene Nichols would speak up.

      • ay2z says:

        Yes! Can someone rip a copy to share as a direct link video from here? (or in the next article thread)

        And can people who Tweet share it please?

  8. ay2z says:

    cfnews13 has the documents linked, and in their story, they include Ben Crumps statement about the releases. Good for this news station to balance their reporting by including this.

  9. ay2z says:

    The emails about burglaries, suspects, etc as per the 911/NEN calls we have heard released, are self-serving emails by the defendant.

    • Xena says:


      The emails about burglaries, suspects, etc as per the 911/NEN calls we have heard released, are self-serving emails by the defendant.

      They also demonstrate a total lack of respect for minority residents at the R@TL and those with Black friends who visit. What GZ did was in violation of the federal Fair Housing Act. It’s one thing if he had photos of suspects, but painting all Black male teens with a broad brush put residents in jeopardy of being prejudged.

      • ay2z says:

        Thanks, Xena. You know something isn’t right in what he was doing, especially ‘vinyl’ or whatever, printed pajama pants on a guy who was taking furniture out of the trash at the curb.

        The guy would be an easy catch with any stolen (non trash at curb) items, and police could at least get an ID and have a talk to him. Not a classic professional, but one might say he had ‘The Wrong Trousers’.

        Even if one can not think with the perspective of a visible minority at RTL, you know something is wrong with what the fogen was doing. He had no common sense and obviously any training or education, didn’t sink in.

      • ay2z says:

        Oh, and if the guy had been caucasian like the resident was, he should have reported the suspicious white guy for smoking and leaning and staring, while in really obvious and bad fashion taste and unnecessary headgear that suggested the word ‘bomber’.

        Lucky the air marshall friend didn’t catch wind of the ‘bomber’ comment and send in homeland swat to RTL.

  10. ay2z says:

    From the Desk of:
    ‘A Concerned Zimmerman Family Member’

    To: Turner Clayton, NAACP (and allegedly to others)
    Date: March 26, 2012

    Sounds like Junior.

    Click to access zimmerman-naacp_letter-052113.pdf

    • “We woulda bet 20,000 but we didn’t want to overload your circuit.”

      LOL, I love that you have a Mongo Slade avatar. It’d be fun if we all switched for the trial!

    • Rachael says:

      So where is the attached flyer?

      • ay2z says:

        That is what I wanted to know. Woulda helped the defense point to include it, now wouldn’t it?

        Tappin’ to Papa’s ‘Lie To Me’ tune.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Did the NAACP ever take any position on this or reply to Jr?

      *crickets* ?

      • ay2z says:

        They couldn’t reply to him, because he was ‘anonymous’, but as he said in his letter, he wanted their reply in the newspaper so he would see it, and not give himself away. (Plus I suppose he could then take his rant into the public forum with a reply and engage them further.)

        Idiot anonymous coward person.

    • Malisha says:

      That ridiculous letter! Gee Willikers the Zimmermans really have an exalted idea of their own importance to everyone — including, strangely (and stupidly) the NAACP. Damn, I’m lucky I wasn’t born that stupid.

  11. Two sides to a story says:

    No one calls Justin Bieber a thug or gangsta:

    “An insider said Bieber was spotted at the Beverly Hills Four Seasons with Lil Twist and Milyn “Mimi” Jenson. “They all went to buy weed at a smoke shop on Olympic Boulevard in Hollywood,” the source said, adding “then they got food at McDonald’s and went back to the hotel.” The insider said the group smoked marijuana and sipped on sizzurp — a cough syrup ingredient — while hanging around in their hotel room.

    The group later went to Bieber’s new bachelor pad in posh Calabasas, where the singer revealed that he had a thing for tattoos and Xanax, the insider said.”

    Read more:

  12. I didn’t know where to put this.

    Breaking News

    I-5 Skagit River Bridge collapses in Washington State; cars and people seen in water.

    • ay2z says:

      Whoa! Been over that, must have… could be flood related. Thanks SG

    • ay2z says:

      The Skagit bridge is north of Seattle by about 100 kms. Looks like people got out of the cars– hopefully all ok.

      Thanks for the report. That’s going to cause a bottleneck, could have been worse with long weekend traffic from Vancouver area. There is a secondary highway, but it’s slow going, especially if everyone has to take it.

    • ay2z says:

      Looks like the section just dropped out,. Doesn’t look like flooding was an issue.

    • Rachael says:

      My daughter in law was on the freeway one exit from the bridge and had the babies with her. I am so thankful. She missed it by just minutes.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Geez, I’m so glad too, Rachael!

      • ay2z says:

        Rachael, she must be shaken, but thankfully she and her babies are safe.

      • Oh noo! I am so glad she is safe. Thank God!

      • Rachael says:

        Me too. My poor son was a wreck. He was at home while she went to the grocery store with the girls. They have like no phone signals there. They have their own tower for the house, so when he heard about it he couldn’t contact her by phone. But they are all okay now. So scary how something like that can just happen out of the blue.

      • Wow, that is so fortunate, thank God.My parents and most of my family are in Seattle/WA State so I was also worried, but all are fine. Some reports say a truck hit it; still others say the bridge was on a deficient bridges list w/DOT.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        rachael says

        My daughter in law was on the freeway one exit from the bridge and had the babies with her. I am so thankful. She missed it by just minutes.

        glad to hear your family is safe, must have been scary.

        on a side, but related note, it could not be more obvious that our infrastructure is crumbling around us while our economy is sluggish. austerity is the what our leaders are choosing as a course of action. it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that a jobs bill to rebuild 50 year old infrastructure would make us all more safe, put people to work and boost local economies. shaking my damn head. :/

      • Two sides to a story says:

        One problem with decaying infrastructure, especially with regard to highways, is that Americans don’t like taxes and don’t like gasoline taxes, which are typically what funds highways. UK and EU have very high petrol prices because they tax realistically. There’s an attitude here that gas has to be cheap.

  13. Ty Flair says:

    How can a lawyer do this to somebody child,I know he have a job to do but he know deep inside that fogen is guilty. I tried my best to not look at this case in black and white but I have know choice. It’s like they are digging this kid up from his grave and kicking him over and over again. I can’t help but to feel anger and the trail have not begun yet.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      It’s like shooting Trayvon through the heart all over again. But nothing good can come of it. A decent jury won’t be impressed with the sleazy defense tactics.

    • I feel the same way, Ty Flair. It hurts to the core. They’ve had no respect for him since the beginning… starting with the SPD.

    • Xena says:

      @Ty Flair

      How can a lawyer do this to somebody child,I know he have a job to do but he know deep inside that fogen is guilty.

      Ever hear of one-sided arguments? They always give the appearance of being strong because the other side is silent. BDLR is not going to be baited into litigating the case in the media, neither in motion hearings. When people like O’Mara give their one-sided opinions or positions, it’s generally because they are afraid of the truth and also want to impress others.

      Trial is going to be very interesting.

      • Malisha says:

        BDLR is not allowed to enter the media game; as a prosecutor, there are strict rules about what he can and cannot say to the press. O’Mara, without such rules, is running around like a mad bull in a china cabinet, BUT that mad bull will be in a much different position when he gets into the bullring with BDLR at which point Stutzman and Fox News and the “Decent American Racist Free Press” do NOT call the shots: Judge Deborah Nelson calls the shots then. And “OBJECTION” will be ruled on over and over again with the rules of evidence and the law of the State of Florida choosing the content.

        “He had gold teeth.”

        “He tweeted ‘Ima gangsta'”

        “He musta been a drugged up criminal-in-training.”

        “The victim had no DNA from the shooter under his fingernails.”

        Fogen, your future awaits you.

        BTW I disagree with the idea that West and O’Mara are ruining their reputations in Florida. There are plenty of people who think that kind of “lawyering” is just what they want. The richest among them will hire any scumbag with a license to practice to jump into a loser case and rough up the enemy on their behalf; and half the time (at least) that kind of behavior nets SOMETHING for the Fogenaical types who indulge in that. Especially in the domestic relations and related areas of law.

  14. KA says:

    I read the defenses motion for sanctions.

    The State gave him the file from the cell phone. MOM hired an expert to interpret the data and obtain the report he released today.
    He charges that the State was suppose to give him any reports they got from this data. They had to BUY the softwre themselves to interpret. They seem pretty bent out of shape about it.

    Is that true? BLDR gave the raw file from the phone. I would think the discovery would be complete then.

    • Rachael says:

      Wasn’t he complaining about that at the last hearing? Yeah, he got the raw file but didn’t want to hire his own people to interpret.

  15. ay2z says:

    What do you bet that tomorrow morning will be filled with defense faces all over the morning shows from NYC.

    They might even talk about the motions, and the evidence, and the in Limine additions to use the media to the max. effect.

  16. kllypyn says:

    they are going to say if this nonsense is admitted that trayvon got into a fight once a few months before he was killed and that is supposed to prove he was the aggressor despite the fact he ran from Zimmerpunk.they are gonna say he went crazy because he was high because he said he was gonna be in the orlando area for a few days because he hid his weed which by the way says nothing about bringing weed with him.again not relevant. basically just typical teenage stuff. and that referrence getting beat in the first rounds like they were imitating a boxing match they saw on tv. just when they imitate wrestling. just typical teenage stuff.




    He was not going back to his truck. His own NEN call proves that. He was looking for Trayvon after he disappeared in to the darkness. His Statement”:Call me and i’ll tell you where i’m at.” proves he had no intention of going back to his truck.No one even knows where his truck was parked other where he claims it was parked.

    When trayvon asked Asked”what are you following me for?” why didn’t he explain himself? As the adult in the situation the burden was on him to explain why he was following a minor who was not committing any crime. The burden was on him to tell trayvon the police had been called. Instead he knocked Trayvon down he was heard by his girlfriend to yell get off get off!!! her story has not changed it has remained consistent which is why we know it’s the truth the truth does not change with the telling lies do.

    Trayvon is also heard screaming get off on the 911 call. He pulled his gun at some point and began interrogating trayvon. Trayvon is heard yelling i don’t know at least twice he yelled help 4 times he yelled help me at least once and he repeatedly yelled no don’t. He claims he unholstered his weapon aimed and fired his gun while being careful not to shoot his own hand all while supposedly lying on his back getting beaten up by a rail thin kid whom he out weighed by 50lbs. He is going to have to explain how he got his gun. Because the only way to grab his gun the way he described is if he knocked trayvon off stood up pulled his gun aimed and shot him.

    the evidence shows he was standing facing trayvon when he fired his gun.the evidence shows he was not Repeatedly slammed into the sidewalk. Trayvon was not physically capable of doing that to a former bouncer by himself the only way trayvon could do what he claims is if he was unable to fight back.he was not disabled in any way and he knows it.The evidence shows he was not punched in the face 30 -40 times.He is going to have to explain where are the bruises,where are the black eyes,

    He’s going to have to explain where are the busted lips.,where was the broken nose. and he is going to have to explain why a former bouncer couldn’t use his fists. He is going to have to explain how did Trayvon beat him up without getting his blood on him. he is going to have to explain how did trayvon beat him up without getting bruised or swollen knuckles. he is going to have to explain why did he have to be careful not to shoot his own hand,where was his hand.

    Saying i was defending myself because Trayvon smoked weed aint gonna cut it. saying i was defending myself because trayvon talked about getting a gun ain’t gonna cut it. in this country a lot of kids become fascinated about guns.doesn’t mean they deserved to die.Saying a was defending myself because trayvon may have got in to a fight a couple of times ain’t gonna cut it and he apparently wasn’t very good at it.. i got into some fights myself and i was the one attacked.Saying i was defending myself because trayvon once had a gold teeth ain’t gonna cut it. Trayvon never picked a fight with anyone but he would defend himself if he had to. He is gonna have to take the stand if he wants to claim self defense and he’s gonna have a lot of explaining top do. If he he wants to drag trayvon who was an overall good kid then all,his violent history will be admissible. the silly teenage stuff trayvon did pales in comparison. He and his lawyers know he killed trayvon in a fit of rage.

    he had a number of opportunities to avoid an incident first by staying in his truck.,which he didn’t do. second by going back to his truck which he didn’t do. Third,when trayvon asked what are you following me for he should have said i don’t know who you are and i called the police on you (in a calm voice.) simply talking to trayvon and identifying himself would have defused the situation.

    But zimmerpunk never behaves like a normal person with him it’s always confront and if people don’t do what he wants he goes off. Even during the confrontation when trayvon panicked and started screaming he had one last chance to avoid a tragedy. he could have simply said kid just go home and waited for the police and told them where he went.instead he allowed his anger to boil over and he shot him dead instead. There is never a justification for killing an unarmed person who tried to avoid you. he knows it that’s he why he began weaving a web of lies to try to get out of trouble.

    He had no legal authority to follow confront or pursue. as a block watch person he is only authorized to watch and call the police. he had no reason to call in the first place.wants to use teenage nonsense to justify murder his own bad act which are a lot worse than a teenager smoking weed or getting beaten in a fight. will become admissible which his lawyers should know about.Zimmerpukes you want to gloat go ahead.the evidence shows Trayvon never touched him although he would have been in his rights if he had.

    • boyd says:

      r u serious?? lol had a lot to say?

    • boyd says:

      at first I was indignant until I read all the text messages. It’s coming of age teenager talk, they want to be men yet they’re still kids. I do not know what a .380 is. But It can’t be sharing a gun. If he really had a gun, there would be tons of texts about that and shooting it. the 22 talk is most likley an air rifle, big whoop

      none of it has anything to do with that night.

  17. colin black says:


    An where Ive lived half my life almost PORTSMOUTH.


    Edinburgh you wopuldnt beleive the skallywags both real an fictinal born an conceived there.
    Sherlock Holmes Burke an Hare.

    Jekyl an Hyde
    Sir Walter Scot
    Conan Dowle
    Irvine Walsh….Freind of mine Authour of Trainspotting
    Alex Ander Graham Belle
    John Logie Baird

    Joseph Lister. first gut to discur how to grow/cultivate anti serum.
    The guy whom discovered how to clone mammals DOLLY THE SHEEP BORN IN EDINBURGH.

    An Edinburgh has been the formost important city in medical advance gor 300 years to present day,

    Also has the largest film festival in the world bigger than Cannes
    Our arts theatre film mucic comedy festival lasts all of August an its biggest on the planet,

    Not to boast or anything
    Jekyl an Hyde.

  18. ay2z says:

    From the Desk of Mongo Slade’s Wardrobe Assistant


  19. Romaine says:

    raped and fondled maybe an exchange of phone numbers for sure murdered not so much…being a switch hitter is not view as the burglar or criminal type. ijs

  20. colin black says:

    From the desk of Outraged Tumbridge Wells.

    Im absalutely outraged by this latest blatant ploy by George Zimmermans defence team.

    By releaseing this spurrious allegation an V T footage of an innocent youth purchesing candy an a soft can of drink.
    They are attempting to SWAY public opinion because he slightly sways his body.

    If Trayvon had been a GAY BLACK YOUTH talking to his boyfreind .
    Steve on his last walk home would the ACCUSED been justified in MURDERING Him because he SWUNG BOTH WAYS?

  21. Romaine says:

    even though trayvons’ txt msgs read he had weed his tox report says he wasn’t blasted out of his mind on the night of the event…the weed point on 02/26/2012 is moot as far as im concerned.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Correct Romaine: The toxicological reports cannot be faked, given the circumstances here. Thus, we can consider them more reliable that the words of a teen, texted to a peer. Trayvon may have texted that he had smoked as late as Friday, however the toxicologist opinion differs with that claim. Thus there is some evidence that smoking weed is a mark of esteem in Trayvon’s social circles, thus he claims to smoke, either more than he does, or even though he does not smoke at all.

      It also shows that the text messages cannot be taken literally, since much of what is being texted, is merely designed to impress peers, while not being entirely true, if true at all. The Prosecution needs only a single instance of evidence, to show that these messages require interpretation, because they may not be either truthful or mean what they seem to mean, to have all of this evidence excluded without foundation and relevance.

  22. Romaine says:

    who wastes weed smoke like dat…back in the day you’d be in the pass line…no damn puffing

  23. Jun says:

    LMAO the photos of alleged marijuana plants do not even look like marijuana plants

    I know people who grow and have a license to grow marijuana and it looks nothing like in the photos.

    and the smoking photos prove nothing either because it could have been tobacco or hookah

    • Romaine says:

      doesn’t mean the palnts were his either…he could have been smoking a newport or a black and mild…whose to say

      • Jun says:

        All it proves is someone took a photo with the camera on that individual phone at one time of whatever plant that is

    • boyd says:

      like his mon wil let him grow a pot plant. please!

      yeah the more I read it, the less and less I was concerned.

      ole Rene is probably all upset now, it fizzing out

    • I believe they realize that none of this stuff will be admissible at trial, so they are hoping to control the narrative by poisoning the jury pool with inadmissible evidence via their Zimmerbot reporters, Stutzman and Weiner at the OS.

      Now that the info is out, next up in the game plan will be to claim that the irrelevant and inadmissible evidence is being deliberately withheld from the jury by a conspiracy of evil liberals, White race traitors and Black racists.

      • Jun says:

        LOL Freddy

        Dave Chapelle did an impression of these people as part of his comedy act and it’s astonishing how much they are like this in real life

      • ay2z says:

        and green alligators

      • ay2z says:

        Line up of past guilty defendants around the prison blocks to get their own cases reviewed for withheld irrelevant evidence??

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I watched OM’s HLN interview after Crump and his slant is that they’ll use the new discovery depending upon how the prosecution plays its hand. It sounded insincere and manipulative, like someone caught in a lie and making up more lies to cover up the first one.

    • Rachael says:

      Looked like pot to me but so what? So he has pics of pot plant on his phone. Doesn’t mean he’s growing, dealing or they are in any way related to him.

  24. colin black says:

    Ah hum I remember Bernie saying they had all sorts of txts an I M S an some downright vile with comments.
    Regarding Trayvons FFather and Comments about an unidetified Revrant an foggage shit himself gulprd.
    An said he couldnt remember sending them.

    That when he an m o m agreed to keep all that under wrapss till trial

    So why are thease alleged txts from TRAYVON being leaked an printed in M S M.
    Let have foggagges txts an other vile comments released also.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      *Maybe the prosecution can have another clerical accident*

    • ladystclaire says:

      I AGREE with you about Fogen’s sealed protected racist rants, should be released and printed in the media as well. as for him lying about not remembering writing them, is just another one of his lies. if he didn’t write them, then who did? he thinks he has got everyone in his hip pocket and, that he is smarter than every body else.

      I wish the state hadn’t agreed to them being sealed because the defense is allowing Trayvon’s business to be put out in the public arena.

  25. Jun says:

    Okay so I finally checked out the OS article. It’s actually not as bad as I thought it would be. It did not show the texts and for all we know Stutz is not showing what the texts actually say. Stutz says that Trayvon texted about allegedly having a fair one on one fight or possibly a video game match of a fighting game, where Trayvon lost. That’s not really a propensity for violence or attacking others and does not prove Trayvon attacked Fogen or had the character to instigate or attack others. Whether the texts were about a video game or an actual fight, it simply shows that Trayvon was not skilled at either and believes in having a fair fight, where both sides agree to the video game match or real fight.

  26. boyd says:

    play fighting.

    football players do this type of fighting a lot. I’ve seen it on college campus DIV I. they’ll put on big gloves , head gear and pound each other, they probably do it in the military too. I also see this is Hispanic,Black neighorhoods occasionally. You box a little until someone quits or they watchers break it up.

    it’s funny they think it means something. It means he lives in Miami.
    and not Palm Beach. Hello!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I have a good friend in his 70s from South Boston. When he was a kid in the 40s and 50s, he said they lived to fight, would fight after school and work and on the weekends every chance they got with both friends and enemies.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      The “think it means something” because they’re so desperate it has to mean something or they’re finished. Actually they’re finished. I just read where MOM is trying to turn the tables on the SP by saying that he won’t use the new material against Trayvon, if the SP doesn’t use the old character material against gz. LOL what a joke.

      As I’ve said before:

      “The problem with the contents of Trayvon’s phone, that the defense is seeking to use to tarnish Trayvon with is; there is no way to know if the text messages should be taken literally or not. The element of jejune rodomontade figures large in the communications between teens who often attempt to match or exceed the claims and expectations of their peers.”

  27. Romaine says:

    so???? data whore productions would be equivalent to date a whore productions!!!! one of gsleazy’s previous jobs as a trained bouncer…wow the defense really shouldn’t go there

  28. Xena says:

    George Zimmerman’s character references.

  29. colin black says:

    Yup .380 is dope an ounce is 28 grams.
    Half ounce is 14 grams.
    qtr ounce is 7 grams
    16th is 3. 5 grams

    In metric its slightly digrent kilos ect an its .280 milligrams or killigrams an not sure metric an me dont compute.
    Any way a 16th bag of weed metric works out as .380 millgrams

    Basicly the smallest deal you could buy before your dealer punches you.
    An the fact he wanted to share it half it with a freind means he was a very casual toker

    • cielo62 says:

      Colin black- THANK YOU! That makes far more sense than a gun. Never heard if a .380. We used to call weed things like nickel beg or quarter bag. Same concept; the weight. Sounds like casual recreational use.

      Sent from my iPod

    • fauxmccoy says:

      colin says

      Yup .380 is dope an ounce is 28 grams.
      Half ounce is 14 grams.
      qtr ounce is 7 grams
      16th is 3. 5 grams

      In metric its slightly digrent kilos ect an its .280 milligrams or killigrams an not sure metric an me dont compute.
      Any way a 16th bag of weed metric works out as .380 millgrams

      Basicly the smallest deal you could buy before your dealer punches you.
      An the fact he wanted to share it half it with a freind means he was a very casual toker

      although it has been 30 years since my ‘starter marriage’ to a loser drug dealer, this is what i remember of the cheat sheet he left me in case i had to get the old triple beam out of the closet and close any ‘deals’ while he was ‘out of the office’. he sold ‘green carpet’ and ‘white paint’ in 1985 … his code was about as sophisticated as ‘peter pan’, eh?

  30. KA says:

    I love how the Treepers and GZ nuts are loving that his mom was “kicking him out” to live with his dad….hysterical…

    Having him live with his dad to get a male role model there is WAY different than throwing him out in the streets…

    Have any of them MET a 17 year old (or any teenager for that matter)? They exaggerate and talk like that all the time.

    My daughter has a 12 year old friend that thinks her mom “hates” her because she “never does anything fun”.

    I guess if we released the texts of that, the mom would be judged an incompetent parent?

    • I guess the claim that someone else was a “mom” to TM has been fully debunked now. Not that I believed it in the first place.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Yes, they’ve been carrying on for months about how his parents didn’t care about him and let him run wild and how he never really lived with Sybrina and tons of other nonsense about the family.

    • kllypyn says:


    • kllypyn says:


      • Two sides to a story says:

        That’s when she asked him to pack and go to his father, when he was kicked out of school. You can read through the text messages. She texts and tells him to pack. He then tells more than one friend that she “kicked me out.” The question is was he going home to her or was he going to live with Tracy or his uncle when he went back?

      • Two sides to a story says:

        They seemed to be close and he seemed like he didn’t want to leave home.

    • Jun says:

      Those folks are fucked up in the bloodclot head, man

      No one in the real world would take those idiots serious

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Obviously Trayvon wasn’t being “kicked out” by his mother, although he chose to talk about it that way [ in jest? To sound more independent?] he was merely being sent to live with his Dad for a few days, rather than mope around the house on a 2 week suspension.

        Otherwise, you have it exactly right Jun, although there’s no way to prove what’s what with each message, we do know from many of them, that they are bit more untrue than true. Likely an attempt by a teen to appear more independent, more in control of himself and more able to defend himself better than he was actually able to. So, it is abundantly clear that these text messages include more jejune rodomontade than providing a real window into his life.

        The messages should not be allowed on the ground that there is no foundation because the messages can not be accurately interpreted. Worse yet, even if they were correctly interpreted, their meaning and import would be irrelevant and immaterial to the case at hand.

        Why the defense saw fit to release irrelevant and immaterial material to the public, without a good reason, other than to make it appear that this material was somehow exculpatory and would be used at trial, when in fact it would be unlikely to be used, because it lacks foundation and is prejudicial without being probative, is beyond the experienced legal observer to explain, other than to assume this misleading attempt is directed at the potential jury pool.

        Oh well, while MOM will probably not be punished for this despicable behavior, his image will suffer greatly when this material is not permitted to be used at trial. Not much for him to worry about from that quarter, since he’s very little reputation left. He has managed to infuriate people on both side of this case.

  31. colin black says:

    Also how many exasperated MOTHERS have said to teenagers both male an or female.
    After picking up after them tripping up after them.
    Afters seeing 50 dollars worth of groceries disapear down there an there freinds throats in a couple of days.

    You get your shit together start putting money in the pot .
    Start treating me as a Mother as oppose your person nal servant.
    Or youe ass is grass.

    Only to be saying the same damm things when there 28.

    • Xena says:

      @colin black.

      Also how many exasperated MOTHERS have said to teenagers both male an or female….

      When my son was 17, he wanted to go places with his friends, some of whom I disapproved of. Being a hard-headed Leo, he would huff and puff and tell me how much he disagreed with me. One of my mantras to him was, “Look buddy. If you think you’re grown enough to make your own decisions, then go live on your own. Shall I help you pack?”

      • disappointed says:

        I packed my boys more than once and come to think of it, I was not even “mad” at them those days. Every Mother has a limit to what they can do, and of course we all want better. I respect Sabrina. Ms. Zimmerman I do not respect. You have to teach your children right from wrong and taking their punishment and so far all I have seen is digging Z’s sorry fat ass out of trouble. That is why we are all here. If I did not know better the Anthony and Zimmerman family could be related.

    • and continuing sometimes into the 40’s Trust me, I know!

  32. boyd says:

    is that what that is a bag of weed? I was thinking it was xbox 360 and he said 380 a typo. why would they jump to that’s a gun?
    I never hard of a 380 gun.

    and the 22. is that a real gun or an air gun?

    either way , I can’t see how they could allowed to jump to conclusions and enter it into a trial.

  33. colin black says:

    Just realised the fact that Trayvonn vocalised his fear into the ears of his Girlfreind shows how terrified he was.

  34. colin black says:

    Oh an by the way male teens think being tough is cool an impreses the ladies.

    They dont go about saying hey am scared of me own shado ect its called BRAVADO…mOST TEEN BOYS AN EVEN ADULT MALES POSESSES THIS RIDICULAS TRAIT.

    bUT Trayvon proved he was a lover not a fighter as he wooed his sweet heart on the phone.

    An fled at the first sight an realisation that a creepy dude was eyeballling him an stalking him.

  35. colin black says:

    Strange thing is Trayvon liked a spliff I did to at his age.
    An even now I quit smokeing 15 years ago .
    Health reasons.
    But I still have a medicinal milky Tea or coffee couple a night with enough weeeed indeed.

    An want to share a .380 is a bag of weed probablly a 20 dollar bag or piont thee zero 8 grms
    Im used to ounces ext being an old hippie

    But that was was he meant with the share .380 or whatever it was dope not a gun.

    Who da fluck wants to share a gun?

    • ladystclaire says:

      Excuse me while I light my spliff Oh GOD I’ve got to take a lift. these are the words of The Honorable Robert Nesta Marley my man. he also said, HERB is a PLANT so therefore it’s not a drug. it’s just like tobacco except it doesn’t cause lung or any other cancer.

      I’ll be willing to bet that, every last one of these people who are busting their chops about Trayvon using, have done and in some cases are doing the very same thing.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Great point. Though I have seen 2 kids pass off a firearm to one another on public transit. Only a quick glimpse, so don’t know if it was a real firearm, but it sure looked like it. If you want to call that sharing.

    • Malisha says:

      Fogen wanted to share “THE” gun so it wasn’t considered HIS.
      That’s who.

  36. boyd says:

    is this the tape they put into evidence

    this is a little rougher version of slap fighting, we commonly slap fought as kids, This is nothing friends play fighting with their other friends. all little kids.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      boyd – thanks for sharing. i had worse fights with my brother growing up fer gawdsakes. my father was an amateur boxer in the 40s where more damage was done by boys the same age. this video makes no impression on me whatsoever other than that martin was a normal kid.

    • Romaine says:

      that vid did’nt have a full clear view of the kid named trayvon, so how can they say its him…not simply because of the name..i need a full frontal view…and guys play fight like that all the what really is the big deal.

    • gbrbsb says:


      Important. The video has been around since May 2012 on YT (I include link at the end of comment) and according to information Trayvon is not one of the fighters but the referee, i.e. the lad in a b&w wide striped T shirt which I reckon must be the case if even treehousers and Dman say it is. That’s not to say Trayvon didn’t participate in such fights (his texts appear to indicate he did) and It has been argued bitterly about on the blog when actually such a “fight” looks like normal activity for young males (note how young Trayvon appears) and when there are other releases more worrying to the prosecution than this.

      • Jun says:

        LMAO wtf

        it dont even look like the victim Trayvon LOL

        • gbrbsb says:

          Wrong point because unless a person knew him neither you, I or anyone else can presume to judge whether it looks like him or not, less still from the poor quality photos we have available. And indeed, while you think it doesn’t “look like” Trayvon I think it may well be him, but so what if it is? And what does that make me to you if I think it is? Or, more importantly, what does that make you think of Trayvon if he did referee or even participate in a friendly fight?

          My point is I am not judging if it is Trayvon by whether it looks physically like him but by thought process, i.e.:

          a) IMO, physically the youth is tall and scrawny so could easily be Trayvon at a younger age.

          b) The video has been around all this time yet nobody has refuted it nor has anyone come forward as having been present confirming it was or was not Trayvon, nor has anyone come forward to say that the place is somewhere else other than the area where Trayvon lived.

          c) The treehousers and Dmans etc. have never claimed one of the fighters was Trayvon which if they were trying to fake it they would have claimed one of the fighters was Trayvon or found a better video.

          d) The defence included it in disclosure which if they knew it was fake IMO they could not have done.

          e) It is not violence but harmless fun. To me that Trayvon referees and/or chills out in this kind of fight with peers is no more than a fun activity which if they don’t most youths should do. The same wrestling with peers in the school gym, it lets off steam, helps develop growing physiques, socialises, etc. and to give it more importance than that is IMO not helpful.

          In any case Nelson may not allow it but if she did it will be because it shows nothing that could infer Trayvon was violent just normal behaviour for today’s youth.

          • Xena says:

            @gbrbsb. You commented to Jun:

            Wrong point because unless a person knew him neither you, I or anyone else can presume to judge whether it looks like him or not, less still from the poor quality photos we have available.

            You might not be aware, but America has a history of saying all Blacks look alike. It’s insulting and prejudicial. People can say whether or not it looks like Trayvon. They might be right or wrong, but to say unless we knew him personally we cannot make a judgment falls of the fence of “all Blacks look alike.”

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Wha? This is the big, bad fight? LOLOLOL. And if it’s refereed, it’s not exactly an assault.

        Hell bells, my kids didn’t fight much and were mostly protective of one another, but when they did, it was far less civilized than this. And watch out for the girls – when they decided they weren’t taking it, they had their brothers on the floor screaming.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        And I agree, Jun. I don’t see anyone there who looks like Trayvon, even a younger Trayvon.

      • Jun says:


        My point is that it looks nothing like him and I agree with you whether or not it is him that it is not substantial, however, it does not look like him and the video is not authenticated

        1) It’s way too blurry

        2) The facial structure and blone structure does not look like Trayvon

        3) Trayvon is more of a lighter brown color and this kid in the video is really dark skinned

        4) Since the video is not authenticated, the audio could easily have been edited in and phony as well

        You are making more out of what I am saying than it is

        It does not look like the victim Trayvon and I also question the authenticity of the video footage and yes it does look like play fighting and horsing around

      • A big So Fucking What? Doesn’t even get to the ballpark of some of the soccer games I have seen (and played in).

    • boyd says:

      I don’t know if Trayvon is in the video , there’s a lot of baloney on the net.

      I watched two other so-called Trayvon video fights, it’s kids playing around. Anyone who lived in a tough neighbirhood understands.

      This stuff will get Fogen nowhere.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        The problem with the contents of Trayvon’s phone, that the defense is seeking to use to tarnish Trayvon with is; there is no way to know if the text messages should be taken literally or not. The element of jejune rodomontade figures large in the communications between teens who often attempt to match or exceed the claims and expectations of their peers.

    • kllypyn says:


    • PYorck says:

      Someone help me out, are kids these days supposed to sit on their asses and play video games all day now or are they not?

      Somehow I suspect that if those kids were all white that would would just be a bit of clean wholesome fun in the playground and not thug assassin training.

      • Exactly. White kids beating the ever living crap out of each other in a refereed football game doesn’t count. A little refereed street fight though, if it’s black kids….

        Hell, when I was a kid and went to summer camp we used to have ROCK fights. I swear to God. We threw rocks at each other just as hard as we could throw them. Guess that doesn’t count, because it was white kids.

  37. ladystclaire says:

    O’what’s it is making the rounds on the evening news talking about what the defense has done concerning releasing Trayvon’s text messages and everything else they have released.

    He is blaming the state for what he has done by releasing this stuff.

    • The motion to continue:

      1. cites no authority,

      2. claims he needs to investigate Dr. Reich,

      3. claims other unnamed experts told him Dr. Reich’s opinion is based on science that has fallen into disrepute,

      4. fails to support this assertion with an affidavit from one or more of these experts, and

      5. claims he needs time to find an expert to hire even though he is supposedly in touch with all of these experts.

      This motion is ridiculous because it fails to document a reason for a continuance.

      O’Mara is a terrible lawyer.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        OM reminds me of a clever magician who puts on a good show, but as you watch, you’re always conscious of the fact that the magic is all smoke and mirrors and sleight of hand.

      • Jun says:

        It seems to be the same ol song and dance

        It’s been that way since at least Sept, I think

        1) State he is ready for trial and an SYG hearing or any other hearing

        2) Claim they discovered some new evidence that was never there before and the state withheld it and then claim sanctions against the state, and that it has been a problem for them when the defense have been given everything and even invited to watch the cell phone forensics and grab all the files they need and was given all files, and even invited to get whatever they felt they needed from FDLE

        3) Claim they need time to investigate the new evidence or whatever it is

        4) Make a bunch of false claims and baseless accusations and requests

        5) Publicize it first through Rene Stutzman and then it is recycled reused again and again

        6) Everyone in the world tells them repeatedly again and again “Cmon Son”

        7) Smear a dead kid’s name and life, his family, and then release personal information the defense was not supposed to release

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        I guess MOM has given up. He’s had over a year to talk to gz in private and ask him specific questions about key elements of the case. I have absolutely no faith in gz’s ability to convince either O’Mara or West, no matter how bad at critical thinking they might be. His “I forget” routine wears thin over days and weeks, in light of the incredible detail gz can remember when it serves him to.

        My guess is he’s “windmilling” swinging out in every direction carelessly, without hope that he’ll ever hit anything worth the effort. Knowing that everything he might try to do, has already been preempted by gz’s self incriminating performances. O’Mara is probably just moving out of some sense that he needs to be seen doing something, rather than just sitting there waiting for the inevitable.

  38. Judy75201 says:

    I find nothing terrible or disturbing or out of the ordinary at all about Trayvon’s texts.


    Click to access 052313_reply_to_opinion.pdf

    • KA says:

      Did this reply make sense to anyone else? It didn’t to me.

    • This reply by West generally admits that witness opinions about the guilt or innocence of the defendant are inadmissible but warns that if the State attempts to attribute the delay in arresting and charging the defendant (which isn’t relevant either), then the State will have opened the door to allowing the defense to call SPD cops to justify what they did.

      I don’t believe this issue will come up as it is irrelevant to whether the defendant murdered Trayvon.

      Sideline mini-trials about marginally relevant or irrelevant issues are exactly what rule 403 is designed to prevent.


    Click to access 052313_reply_to_hearsay.pdf

    • This 2-page reply, which does not cite a case, generally agrees that many of the defendant’s statements are hearsay, if offered by the defense, but disagrees with the State’s argument that none of the defendant’s statements are admissible under the res gestae exception or some other exception to the hearsay rule. West asks Judge Nelson to reserve ruling until the issue comes up in trial.

      This is a sneaky response because West wants to be able to ask a leading question seeking agreement from a witness that the defendant said XYZ. For example, he might ask Serino this question:

      George told you that he killed Trayvon in self-defense, didn’t he?

      BDLR would object to the question because it calls for an inadmissible hearsay response.

      Judge Nelson would eventually sustain the objection, but the jury would have heard the defendant’s statement and West would be counting on the well known principle that the Court cannot un-ring the bell.

      He also would probably like to mention that statement during opening statement to the jury or maybe during jury selection.

      The purpose of the State’s motion in limine is to prevent those events from happening, and I am reasonably certain Judge Nelson is savvy enough to see through West’s tactical deception.

      Therefore, I expect she will grant the State’s motion.

      BTW, the res gestae exception is a very limited exception similar to the present-sense-impression exception in which the statement about an event occurs as the event happens. Thus, the statement is part of the event itself or the res gestae.

      • Jun says:

        I am not a lawyer, but I think the motion for limine will be granted because that’s what it says on a google search of “Hearsay in the US”

        Pretty much everything Fogen has said is complete hearsay and I kind of figured Omara would be trying to sneak in hearsay during opening statements and such

  41. News Flash: The jury in the Arias case was unable to unanimously agree on a verdict and has been dismissed by the Court. There will be a juror news conference starting soon.

    • So what does that mean, Professor? I’m confused. I’ve never seen anything like it before.

    • ladystclaire says:

      @Professor, NO there will be no news conference from the jury as they have chickened out like the Anthony jury did almost two years ago. the family of the victim, some of them cried. smdh

    • Two sides to a story says:

      What confuses me is that the jury who who could not agree on the penalty is the jury who heard the entire case. The entire case is not being retried, just the penalty phase. How in the heck does a new jury get properly brought up to speed on all the facts of the case? This sounds like another nugget of Arizona genius.

      • I’m also troubled by the Arizona procedure. In Washington State where I practiced law, a hung jury in the penalty phase results in a LWOP sentence.

        The jury will be instructed that she is guilty and the prosecutor is going to have to present his case again, although in a somewhat abbreviated form possibly losing some of its impact.

        Do we know what the vote was. 11-1 for death is very different from 11-1 for LWOP. If it broke even or close to even, maybe they can resolve the case by agreeing to LWOP.

        Retrying the penalty phase seems nuts to me.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Thank you. I listened to CNN interview a prominent attorney earlier – I forget who – nationally known – he felt that if the jury was hung with most advocating life, that it’s a possibilty that the state would not retry.

        But logic (and I know that logic doesn’t always apply) would follow that Jodi is 1) convicted of M1 2) that her jury deemed the murder was cruel, therefore I’m gauging by these two points and by the amount of public sentiment against Jodi, that the majority of jurors voted for the death penalty, the minority for LWOP, and that there will be a penalty phase retrial. If the jury was hung after the long spectacle of the trial, and the prosecution presentation on the second round will be diluted, I would think it would either hang again or that there might be a few more people willing to go LWOP. I’m predicting she won’t end up on death row. And as someone opposed to death penalties, I’m hopeful.

  42. Last time I checked, teenagers are no angels and I’m not saying Trayvon is an angel. But what the defense is trying to do is to put him in a stereotypical category of a thug. This is what makes that whole crew racist bigots to the very core of their bones.

    Please forgive this but in the 3rd discovery in the set with 25 pictures, there is a picture of TM involved in a controlled fight between 2 students, I saw the youtube video of this and listened to the audio. While people may be mad at me for bringing this up, if you listen to the audio and listen to yells on the 911 tape, you can’t help but say the yells are DAMN IDENTICAL!!! There is absolutely no mistaking.

    • Wow, I have not heard that, but this stuff is really over the top. I love this song today even, gets my toes tapping, but there’s bad language in it, so does that mean somebody can gun me down and then blame me, for my taste in music? Absurd:

      • Dang, I love this!
        *whaling on a bad ass air guitar*

      • Two sides to a story says:

        You play Strauss waltzes and drink sloe gin fizz. BANGBANGBANG!

        • Well, and I mean, good point, there’s lots of song lyrics out there, but what is really sleazy is to take a song lyric and put it into a court document, allege that Trayvon Martin said it, and that therefore, he has an interest in guns! It’s just so in-your-face that I can hardly type this.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Oh, definitely. They’d have to line us up by the gazillions and litigate and execute to the end of time. There’s always someone who’s not gonna like your style.

      • Ezz-Thetic says:

        Uh oh! I didn’t know y’all loved the P-Funk up in here. Awesome!

      • ThasssRight, Ezz-Thetic.

        I don’t know who this is, on guitar, but Lord alive, is this ever good. If people all just listened to some great music, maybe we wouldn’t have so many problems in society. It should be required!

  43. Nef05 says:

    Arias Hung Jury – Jury Press Conference in moments.

  44. Donna Flores says:

    I notice that Trayvon always referenced lyrics from songs. This wanna share a 380 is from Nicki Minaj song’s Bottoms Up. It was very popular.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Trey Songz:
      It’s Mr. Steal Yo Girl (x2)
      Let’s go

      [Hook: Trey Songz]
      Bottoms up, bottoms up, ey, what’s in ya cup
      Got a couple bottles, but a couple ain’t enough
      Bottoms up, bottoms up, throw your hands up
      Tell security we bout to tear this club up
      Bottoms up, bottoms up, pocket full of green
      Girl, you know I love the way you shake it in them jeans
      Bottoms up, bottoms up, throw ya hands up
      Bottoms up, bottoms up, bottoms up (up, up)

      [Verse 1: Trey Songz]
      You know what it is girl, we back up in this thang
      Money stay in my pocket, girl, I’m like a walkin’ bank
      Tell me whatcha drank, tell me whatcha thank
      If I go get these bottles, we go alcohol insane
      Callin’ all the girls, do you hear me?
      All around the world, city to city
      Cheers to the girls, throw a deuce to the guys
      Now I got a chicken and a goose in the ride
      Gettin’ loose in the ride
      Hatin’ ass nigga you can move to the move to the move to the side


      [Verse 2: Trey Songz]
      My vision’s blurred, my words slurred
      Its jam packed, a million girls
      And I ain’t tryin to leave, though
      We drunk so let me be your alcohol hero
      Callin’ all the girls, do you hear me?
      All around the world, city to city
      Cheers to the girls, throw a deuce to the guys
      Now I got a chicken and a goose in the ride
      Gettin’ loose in the ride
      Hatin ass nigga you can move to the move to the move to the side

      [Verse 3: Nicki Minaj]
      Yo, could I get that ‘Trón?
      Could I get that Remy?
      Could I get that Coke?
      Could I get that Henny?
      Could I get that margarita on the rock rock rocks?
      Could I get that salt all around that rim rim rim rim?
      Trey, I was like “Yo Trey”
      Do you think you could buy me a bottle of Rosé?
      Okay, lets get it now
      I’m wit a bad bitch he’s with his friends
      I don’t say “Hi”, I say “keys to the Benz”
      Keys to the Benz? Keys to the Benz!
      Muhfuckin right yeah, V to the 10
      If a bitch try to get cute I’mma stuff her
      Throw a lotta money at her then yell fuck ha, fuck ha, fuck ha
      Then yell fuck ha
      Then I’mma go get my Louisville Slugger
      Excuse me, I’m sorry, I’m really such a lady
      I rep Young Money
      You know Slim, Baby?
      And we be doin’ donuts while we wavin’ the .380
      We give a lotta money to the babies out in Haiti
      Yellin all around the world
      Do you hear me? Do you like my body?
      Anna Nicki
      Rest in peace to Anna Nicole Smith
      Yes, my dear, you’re so explosive
      Say hi to Mary Mary and Joseph
      Now bottoms up and double my dosage


      Bottoms up, Bottoms up, Bottoms up, Bottoms up, Bottoms up

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I would think he identified the references to Trey, Slim, etc.

        Lotta music out there now that makes me blanch as a parent, but many kids go through that hell-raising rebellion and pretending they’re lettin’ it all hang out. I’m sure my folks didn’t much like the scene in 1969 either. Scandalous! 😀

      • Rachael says:

        I know this one!!! My son listens to it.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Hahaha, Fauxie – how ’bout I Wanna Kiss You All Over, um Light My Fire, oh, oh, oh, Itchycoo Park – I bet that had my folks livid –

        Tell you what I’ll do (what will you do?)
        I’d like to go there now with you
        You can miss out school (won’t that be cool)
        Why go to learn the words of fools?
        What will we do there?
        We’ll get high
        What will we touch there?
        We’ll touch the sky

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I don’t think my kids follow Nicki Minaj, but I bet they know the lyrics.

    • Donna Flores says:

      I need to see all the texts not just the ones they pick and choice.


    Click to access 052313_state_limine_cvsa.pdf

    • Rachael says:


    • This motion seeks an order prohibiting the defense from mentioning the voice stress analysis test that the defendant took.

      This motion should be granted because that’s the legal rule in Florida and elsewhere. The rule is based on the lack of general agreement among scientists that this type of test can consistently produce accurate and reliable results.

      In other words, the test violates the Frye Rule.


    Click to access 052313_gag3.pdf

    • Bernie De la Rionda is getting ready to shut this mofo DOWN!

      • type1juve says:

        It’s about time, as a matter of fact long overdue. The closer we get to trial the more desperate this despicable defense gets because they know fogen is guilty of murder.

    • Oh here we go now, it’s a war. A ‘give us money and more time,’ sanctions and extension(defense motions) answered with a ‘STFU.’ gag order (state motion).

    • ay2z says:

      Wow, I’m working my way down through the last few hours, and every new scroll to the next message is a new development!

      Thanks, SG! Will read once I get Ben Crump’s interview done.

      • ay2z says:

        Seems that was overlooked in the last group of in Limine’s. It’s important obviously, as the fogen’s brother and followers and family have all been playing the he passed the lie detector, when it was never designed to scan every word or lie or reaction. Only a few generalities, plus it’s not admissable in court, for very very very good reason.

      • I keep saying this, but those lie detector tests are bogus. A serial killer in Washington who killed 49 women and admitted it, passed a lie detector test. They are not admissible.

  47. Xena says:

    Ben Crump’s recent interview on HLN, custody of Trent Sawyer. Thanks Trent.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Peter Reuter, a professor at the School of Public Policy and the Department of Criminology at the University of Maryland, and the co-author of Cannabis Policy: Moving Beyond the Stalemate, had this to say:

      “Experimenting with marijuana has long been a normal part of growing up in the U.S.; about half of the population born since 1960 has tried the drug by age 21. Perhaps one out of six has used it for a year or more.”

      And . . .

      Marijuana is the most commonly used illicit drug in the United States, with nearly 17 million Americans age 12 and older reporting past‐month use, and 374,000 people entering an emergency room annually with a primary marijuana problem. The downward trend in youth marijuana use during the late 1990s has ended. According to the 2009 National Survey on Drug Use and Health, past‐month marijuana use among 12‐ to 17‐year‐olds climbed 9 percent from 2008 (6.7%) to 2009 (7.3%), as shown in figure 1.

      And . . .

      New York Times
      Statistics suggest that more members of the older generations, like Ms. Neufer, are using marijuana. The National Survey on Drug Use and Health reported in 2011 that 6.3 percent of adults between the ages of 50 and 59 used the drug. That number has risen from 2.7 percent in 2002.

      And anecdotal evidence points to much of this use being sociable rather than medical.

      Trent is right. Adderall and other prescription drugs are a lot more dicey.

    • ay2z says:

      Thanks, Xena!! Thanks, Trent!! Now to watch.

    • Love how cut-to-the-chase blunt Trent is:

      “Yeah, tainting the jury pool, Mark O’Mara. Fuckin piece of shit.”


    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Thanks Xena, got it. Attorney Crump makes the same argument I make, the texts of a teenager probably do not mean what they appear to mean, since a large amount of jejune rodomontade will appear in just about everything teens do, as they attempt to appear equal or better than their peers.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Whoa. They has a busy little day today.

      And it’s distracting me, dammit. :-/

      • ay2z says:

        And I was away for the last 4 hrs at most, and came back to this.

        Question about the delay trial request, I think this is not the first time Judge Nelson has been asked to consider this, but can’t remember if formally or not.

        Suspect that if Judge Nelson does not comply, the 5th will have a new writ of appropriateoi formus to consider overriding the Judge.
        Then, they can try to remove a fourth judge on the case.

        Is it possible that this comes on the heels of notice of the appeals court decision to deny the depo of Ben? They may have received notice before the public announcement online. And the defense wouldn’t be in a hurry to make the loss public. (just a thought)

    • cielo62 says:

      SG2- “breaking”? They’ve been trying to delay trial for months!

      Sent from my iPod

  48. Malisha says:

    Wait — you mean that it’s OK for the prosecutor to hide evidence that the murderer was RIGHT to kill his victim? That can’t be fair! We need some Merkin Justice here! 👿

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Is OM dumb as a rock or is this just another example of playing to the paying supporters and tainting the jury pool?

      • Trying to taint the jury pool, most likely, or else ‘couldn’t pour piss from a boot, if the directions were written on the heel.’ One or the other.

      • ay2z says:

        Crane, yes, that’s what I thought when I read Prof’s post above. It’s about making the state look like the big bad monster when the state can not reply, they are hogtied and can’t say anything until court, and then, it’s a busy day ahead.

        The defense is free to do or say just about anything to make them look bad to garner some sympathy for themselves as good guys done badly by, and the state has no way to defend itself in the same forum.

        If the defense looks like the little guys defending against big brother so to speak, then the jury might have more connection with O’Mara at trial. Which lawyer will have a connection with the jury, might be the one who wins. Used car salesman, which one would you buy a car from, as Judge Perry said the Anthony case came down to.

    • Jun says:

      LOL that’s really frivolous

      Did Bernie not give them all access to the phone?

      Yes he did

      So where did Bernie screw up?

      and besides, I thought they were not supposed to release any text messages

      • ay2z says:

        They can just say the release was an honest mistake, just like West naming a person who was to remain unidentified. He apologized, but it happens, both sides agree.

    • PYorck says:

      They also confirmed what I suspected some time ago. The state gave them an image file of the phone memory and they were neither able to do anything useful with it nor willing to pay for someone who was.

      For those who not familiar with that kind of thing, such an image file contains a complete copy of all data on a given disk or memory device, bit for bit. Individual files, photos, messages etc. can be extracted from that. To me that sounds like a clear example of work product. There is also a huge amount of information that could be extracted but only a fraction is relevant in this case or even meaningful to any human reader. Letting the state pick and choose what is worth looking at would open a whole new can of worms.

      • ay2z says:

        But it is not up to the state to provide it’s own work product, and the defense had the phone and had to access the information itself. They want the state to pay and to spoon feed them, Brady or not.

        • PYorck says:

          Sure, that’s what I meant. That .bin file is the evidence. Which conclusions they draw from that is their problem. It would even be irresponsible to rely on spoon feeding.

      • ay2z says:

        good point, irresponsible to be spoon fed.

  49. Trained Observer says:

    Individual voir dire, as the name implies, involves questioning prospective jurors individually out of the presence of the others in order to prevent their answers from potentially influencing or poisoning the minds of other jurors. — Frederick Leatherman

    I was on a 12-person M1 jury in Florida in 1989. Questioning was in the open in front of other prospective jurors and media including the Herald and Sun-Sentinel.

    Same with a Florida civil jury of 6 in 2005, where jurors were allowed to submit questions to various witnesses. .

    Questions included personal ones: Employment, whether ever arrested, charged with or convicted of a crime and if so what by who and where, or a victim of a crime or accused of a crime, all asked in front of other propsective jurors in an open courtroom .

    Granted HLN or CNN weren’t on the scene for either of these trials (the civil lasted six weeks, the M1 about three ), but I don’t see why prospective Fogen jurors should be treated differently from others in the state. That would lend credence to Fogen’s notion that he’s one special dude.

  50. trina cosbie says:

    Z-Nation thinks that Trayvon having pics of a gun in his phone means he had a gun on him…lol….After slinging all this mud, MOM & company still have produced no evidence of self defense!!

    • Rachael says:

      And therein lies the whole problem with this shit.

    • Jun says:

      I have photos of guns in my phone and the police did nothing to me because it proves nothing

      I went to a gun museum and took photos


      So what’s next, they will say Trayvon googled a specific gun now?

      • ay2z says:

        Is a gun on a cell phone file, loaded or not? If not, can you load it by plugging the phone into a special app driven device? Or can you load it wirelessly?

        (how rediculous. It’s scarey how dense these people are).

      • Jun says:

        Quentin Taratino has film of guns in his films

        I guess according to Omara’s logic, Fogen can legally murder Quentin now

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Nor will they be able to. Obviously if they had sufficient evidence to prove self defense, the proper and most effective time and place to have used it, is at the immunity hearing they just waived the right to have.

      Remember, not only would that win have precluded any trial, it would have immunized gz against any civil suit AND it would have required the state to reimburse in dollars and cents, all of gz’s expenses. Meaning he’d get those hundreds of thousands he spent all back.

      Now, does anyone want to venture a guess why gz and his lawyers decided they didn’t want double immunity and a huge cash refund? But, would rather face a trial where, even if they won they could still be sued civilly and not given a dime of their money back?

      They waived the “pre-trial” motion. Does anyone think that the state is not going to use that as a defense, if gz tries to apply for an immunity hearing after trial? The Appellate Court will simply say the issue is moot, since the trial has already been held. But, that’s all just wishful thinking. Like I said, if the defense had the goods, they’d have used it already.

  51. Nef05 says:

    Crump on HLN.

    • Nef05 says:

      O’Mara to respond on HLN after commercial break.

    • Nef05 says:

      Clearly, O’Mara simply cannot get through an interview without telling an outright lie. There is no “eyewitness” who says he “saw” Trayvon bash fogen in the face, knock him down, get on top of him and bash his head. There is no witness who saw Trayvon “attack” fogen.

      • cielo62 says:

        Nec05- except for MMA witness 6 who later recanted everything.

        Sent from my iPod

      • ladystclaire says:

        I heard that rotten faced monster tell that out right LIE on national TV and, Ryan Smith never called him out on it. he just sat there and took it all in as being the truth. there is something about Ryan that I don’t care for him at all.

        How in the hell could Trayvon knock that fat B*****D down with just one punch? although we all know that Trayvon never laid a hand on the lying MURDERER, there is no way his fat ass would fall down with one punch. he also knows his nose wasn’t broken as well but, he is sticking to that LIE.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Well he can tell whatever lies he wants and he can stick to whatever lies he tells, but there will be a “moment of truth” when he’s going to have to prove whatever he claims. The SP will be able to prove what they claim, so will the defense have to prove what they claim or be suspected of lying. Of course, much of what gz wants to claim, cannot only not be proven true, but it can also be proven false. gz needs to get MOM to help him pack his go bag, prison is a terrible place to wind up without enough changes of underwear or socks, especially when you weigh several hundred pounds. 😆

      • Jun says:

        At least it is recorded. Now it can be used against Omara in a court of law. Bernie can make him eat those words now.

  52. Xena says:

    Coming in late and have to catch up, but after reading the professor’s article, I must question. What Rene reports as “text messages” sounds like the purported Twitter or FB comments and pics from accounts that were never proven to belong to Trayvon. So, I wonder if she is confusing those things reported by White Supremacists as coming from Trayvon’s social media as “text messages” from his phone?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Hi Xena goddess – 3rd supplemental discovery today –

      • Xena says:

        @Two sides.

        Hi Xena goddess

        Ahem. That’s princess. LOL!! I’ll only be a goddess if I can get Hercules to put a ring on my finger. 🙂

        Thanks for the link to the supplemental discovery.

      • Well, good. So they just fell off the dum dum truck and are going to open the character door, LOL. May as well get some traffic control at the courthouse, so the state can start backing Fedex trucks right up to the courthouse with GZ character evidence!

        Perverted acts comes to mind, for one thing.

      • Here comes the George Zimmerman bad character Fedex deliveries now, just like this:

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Oops, Crane. Wrong spot.

        Um, self-destructive perverted acts like slamming your own pee-pee in the toilet lid? : /

        Naw, I know you mean W9.

        This will be a show of a lifetime if the court allows the grande character battle. But not likely.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Damn, I feel sorry for the court clerk who has to scan all that!

      • annnnd…more prior bad act character evidence here: Destination Seminole County Courthouse:

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Man, they couldn’t get overloaded crate off the ground! No wonder they had to FedEx it all . . .

    • boyd says:

      I’m wondering the same thing here. Twitter or FB it’s a hack job. The cell phone I’m not sure and text messages reside on a server not in the phone (is that right?).

      • Xena says:


        The cell phone I’m not sure and text messages reside on a server not in the phone (is that right?).

        I have no idea. I’ve sent about 10 text messages in the same number of years. LOL!!

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Good point, if you’re signed up with rss feeds and things, the minute they power up the phone it’s going to download data from your connected/subscribed sites. So, if Trayvon’s facebook was hacked and various pictures and messages were posted there, when they powered up the phone at some time, even if they didn’t have the password, the phone would begin retrieving from the subscribed data stream.

      • Nef05 says:

        O’Mara just said on HLN that it came from “data from his cell phone that we just received recently”. From that I inferred it was from the whole Cellbrite thing. Then O’Mara implied that the state had it for a much longer time, which changes that, because O’Mara got the Cellbrite info within a few days of the state receiving it.

        What’s more likely (imo) is that it’s the Cellbrite info and O’Mara finally got around to getting someone to intepret the data, thus the “recently” designation.

      • cielo62 says:

        Boyd- sent messages are saved in your sent folder on your cell phone. It can be deleted easily. I usually clean out my inbox and outbox daily. My brother prefers to let them accumulate. But I thought the fogen team had no idea how to interpret the raw data from the cellphone provider?

        Sent from my iPod

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Um, like slamming your own pee-pee in the toilet lid?

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Delete. Replied to wrong message and moved this.

      • I don’t know what they’re doing. Anything to avoid what happened on that actual night as well as anything to avoid a defense to the actual elements of murder 2, I suppose. It’s over the top, to try to convict Trayvon Martin based on, let’s face it, the fact that he is black. It’s offensive now, for real.

    • cielo62 says:

      Xena- I wondered the exact same thing. How “convenient” to confuse the various sources of social media. I can guarantee that FB and Twitter DID NOT give MOM and West anything! Based on the fact that they did get Trayvons phone records(and had no clue what it meant) that they are trying to pull a switch and bait.

      Sent from my iPod

      • Xena says:


        Based on the fact that they did get Trayvons phone records(and had no clue what it meant) that they are trying to pull a switch and bait.

        My question is what witness is going to be called to testify to the text messages? I see some are marked as being from Witness 8, but the defense wants to impeach Witness 8.

    • ladystclaire says:

      @Xena, somebody needs to put stop to Rene Stutzman for printing lies about this case in order to help Fogen get an acquittal because, that is just what she is doing. I don’t know if it would help, to seat a jury from another county in Florida for this case.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      They’re representing them as things from his phone. But, as we know, phones can be hacked. So, it will be up to BDLR to confirm or deny what this is. As we know, even selected redaction can change meanings drastically.

  53. ay2z says:

    WFTV’s news at 5, had a report by Belich, and included legal analyst’s comments. The legal analyst said he believes it likely that Judge Nelson will allow the newly released evidence in because the defense can use it to show a background of violence (paraphrasing, heard it, didn’t make notes).

    The video will proabably be up later on the wftv website. I think the legal analyst sounded like Schaeffer, but I wasn’t watching, only listening.

    I bet WESH pulled it’s legal analyst comments based on a sneak preview of today’s releases. (the report that title said legal advisor said self defense rediculous.)

    • Two sides to a story says:

      It’s been my experience observing experts and legal analysts and various pundits in various disciplines online and in the media (environmental and energy folks especially come to mind) present every opinion possible from soups to nuts on the same subject, with data, and even if they’re clearly interpreting data incorrectly, or not processing an argument properly.

      So there’s plenty of BS presented as fact and the sorry fact is that a lot of people will believe whatever “expert” fits their pre-conceived notion.

      If people want some factual commentary on Fogen’s case and a track record of spot-on predictions, they’ll get it from Frederick Leatherman!

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        “If people want some factual commentary on Fogen’s case and a track record of spot-on predictions, they’ll get it from Frederick Leatherman!”

        Yep and the Professor has already told us that these things, which have been on the CTH wish list for over a year, are neither relevant nor probative. Worse yet for the defense, since they go to character impeachment, they set themselves up to have gz’s impeachment brought in. A far worse consequence than just some texting, which cannot be demonstrated to be a factual indication of any real actions.

        The Prosecution will be able to tell the jurors that, there is no way to judge these text messages and pictures as anything other than youthful braggadocio”. IIRC my high school days, I do remember kids claiming to have done things, broken laws and/or rules, that they never actually did, just to seem part of the in crowd. We had kids who “used to smoke pot all the time but stopped because they didn’t like it”, who in reality had never even taken a puff. Oh yeah and gunmen! But boy did they know all about guns, never even had so much as BB gun in life. Such is growing up.

        So, I don’t think this stuff should come in without any proof that it’s true, and not just the sundry jejune rodomontade of days gone by.

    • boyd says:

      what violence? see that’s the part that gets me. what violence? he could be talking about a video game. Xbox live 360. share a 380 could meant to be 360 box a typo. are typo’s possible.

      I don’t see it as evidence of anything except kid talk.

      • Rachael says:

        I have an idea. Let’s go as Trayvon what it was all about. Oh wait, we can’t because he is dead.


      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Yes Boyd, I’m with you on that for a very good reason: If he’s doing all the fighting they’re alluding to in the text messages, Trayvon’s going to be coming home badly bruised and bloody very often. His mother and DD would certainly be texting him warnings all day long.
        There would be plenty of mention of black eyes and other ills that befall fighters, not to mention the troubles.

        This texting sounds to me, more like kids trying to appear to be more than they are, more hip, more militant, bigger risk takers and living larger than they actually are. A sample of teenagers facebook pages and phones, would probably show more and perhaps worse, for kids who are actually very good kids who do no such things in reality.

        Which is why I wouldn’t recommend letting youthful messages made between teens in private, into a court of law, when they could be false but paint a salacious picture unfairly.

    • Self-defense is ridiculous, but saying that doesn’t sell tickets to the Big Show, I guess.

      I’ll tell you something else that’s ridiculous and that’s the legal analyst’s prediction that Judge Nelson will allow the newly released evidence to show a background of violence.

      What violence?

      As I wrote sometime last summer, to be admissible the defense would have to have evidence that Trayvon liked to pick fights with people and assault them MMA style for no apparent reason.

      There is no evidence of that. Nada, Zippo.

      But even if there were evidence of that introduced at trial, the State would then be able to introduce evidence that the defendant had assaulted people in the past.

      Where do they get these “experts” who do not even know the rules of evidence?

      • Bill Taylor says:

        allow me to equate the word credentials with “experts” for this please….often online i see people demand credentials, as if they are required for a person to be correct….yet as just noted people with credentials are WRONG and obviously so all over the place daily.

        the rules of evidence are basic stuff any competent layman should be able to understand.

        that stuff is why when people demand my credentials or links, common SENSE comes with neither of those things is my standard reply.

      • Malisha says:

        These experts who do not eve know the rules of evidence are the run of the mill lawyers, Professor. You have been practicing for years thinking other lawyers care about what they are doing because YOU do; that is projection, sir.

        Another place they could have come up with such experts is in their handy index-card file under “friendly racists.”

      • ay2z says:

        Prof, when I posted the comment, it was from the livelink news. Now they have the video report up, but it is not quite the same as I thought I heard. I wasn’t watching, but doing other things while listening, and may not have realized some of the comments were attributed by Belich, to none other than MOM himself.

        The report could be slightly different than the live news but I apologize to their legal analyst for the mixup and especially here to you folks.

        Here is the video they posted since the newscast.

  54. Stutzman and Weiner remind me of this, every day: “Excruciating up-to-the-minute coverage of some irrelevant bullshit story that has no ramifications whatsoever.”

  55. Lonnie Starr says:

    I don’t think the text messages should be allowed, unless somehow it can be figured that they’re not talking about some arcade game like “Mortal Combat” or some other video game. Or even just having a brag fest. I sincerely doubt Trayvon was training to take on angry 200+ lb adults in the dark. Games are games and organized sports would pit him against equals, not people of vastly superior strength and weight advantage.

    So Trayvon showed an interest in guns? In Florida where just about everyone has one? Really? How many guns did Trayvon own and… better yet, how many was he carrying that night?

    The defense is grasping at straws, trying to show that perhaps the victim might have been capable of defending himself. Well, the fact is, the evidence shows that he was not able to defend himself because he was unarmed and gz had a weapon. Trayvon never struck gz, so those claims of being beaten were all lies. Yet gz went and shot the kid anyway, for no reason we can discover that made it necessary.

    MOM can whine all he wants to but it’s bye bye georgie goodbye. Grab that go bag and get on the bus!!!

  56. PYorck says:

    This release was disgusting, but on the plus side I haven’t seen anything really relevant or really new. Some of the details may be new, but on the whole it is all stuff that was either known or rumored already.

    I think they have shown their hand. That’s it. I have never believed GZ’s story, but there was always a chance that a piece of the puzzle was missing. If this is the best that they’ve got, then GZ has nothing but his own lies.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Yup. They don’t have shizzaz. It’s all “look, look, look, over there” deflection Treeper madness.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Yep, but this round of discovery is suspiciously close to what the CTH has been wishing for all year long. Even down to the photos where Trayvon is wearing gold teeth? I thought that picture had been debunked as belonging to some doppelganger from NYC? I wouldn’t put it past that group to hack and alter records. We’ll have to wait and see what develops, but for now I wouldn’t put much faith in this release being true just yet.

    • kllypyn says:

      The main thing is it shows what we already know he smoked weed a few months before he died. and he got beat up once. those weed photos came from some website i saw them when i googled marijuana which i was doing a little research. BTW smoking weed doesn’t carry a death sentence.

  57. Malisha says:

    Actually, this “smear the dead child” campaign will backfire with the jury. If they heard about all this terrible stuff (90% at least is untrue and the remaining 10% is irrelevant) through the press reports and then, at trial, develop a true picture of what happened that night because they are normal, non-lunatic, relatively intelligent individuals, their reaction is likely to be some combination of the following:

    * Well, the kid was not a very nice boy and I wouldn’t want MY SON to behave like that but he didn’t deserve to get killed!


    * Well, that kid was just a normal, non-hostile kid and I wouldn’t want anybody in MY family to go out with a loaded gun looking to cowboy-vigilante-herd such a kid into the police station with such a violent intent that if the kid resisted he would kill him!

    And there you have it. NOTHING proves Trayvon was a horrible rotten murderous person whose death would be a socially acceptable outcome of his walking to the store and back. If Trayvon Martin had been tried for some crime (marijuana use, fighting, thuggery, tooth-decor) and convicted and the prosecutor asked any six people who can be chosen in Sanford to apply the death penalty against him at age 17, they would have refused.

    No person of normal intelligence would be able to excuse the murder of Trayvon Martin because of any of this nonsense. And as to presuming that this stuff shows that he attacked Fogen? Where’s your witness? If Fogen testifies, he slits his own throat; if he just hopes jurors PRESUME he killed in self-defense he doesn’t understand Judge Nelson OR Florida law very well, and if his lawyers are telling him this crap about Trayvon can help him, they are violating his rights to a decent defense.

    Fogen should have pled and thrown himself on the mercy of the court.

  58. ay2z says:

    WESH has a story dated recently, and this is all there is…. title only. No body, no report, no pics, no notin’.

    Did they makea decision to pull the story for some reason and forgot to pull the title?

    Wonder who the attorney was that was so bold as to go against the Orlando based media grain?

    Trayvon Phone Call Shows Self-Defense Claim ‘Absurd,’ Attorney Says
    Attorney Talks About Teen’s Final Moments

    By Matt Lupoli
    UPDATED 7:40 AM EDT Mar 20, 2012

    Here’s the link, but unlike what it promises, you can NOT read more.

    Read more:

  59. disappointed says:

    I believe George’s phone records are going to be held until trial because he dropped the N- word. I think very little of him and honestly can not think of any other reason not to release them. It is disgusting they are trying to make Trayvon look like the bad guy but any parent would want their child to do the same thing Trayvon did. FIGHT back since running away from the idiot did not work. No strange man should approach someone’s child. Trayvon did not have to tell him anything. George did not tell him who he was or what he was doing. As far as I am concerned Trayvon thought George to be a molester. Not far off according to the family friend/cousin. Z has a record of putting his hands places he should not be putting them. Love the graduation photo, you would think under the photo they would put “Loser who did not graduate” disgusting slob.
    Oh and if he took Adderall he would test positive for meth. Some Nascar driver was suspended last year for taking a friends prescription. Sorry I am really upset about dragging the deceased through the mud. Tired of people looking at Trayvon’s color and NOT the facts. I am a middle aged white woman and it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out some older white men are ignorant. They are just to ignorant to keep it on down low. Now the whole world sees it. MOM leads the ignorant. (< proudly)

    • ” I am a middle aged white woman and it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out some older white men are ignorant. They are just to ignorant to keep it on down low. Now the whole world sees it. MOM leads the ignorant. (< proudly)"

      x 2. 52-y/o white woman here, and I agree.

  60. ay2z says:

    Damn, her’s proof of a thug in the making, grey haired white guy putting his life in jeopardy if he walks through fogen’s neighborhood and gets a dizzy spell to create suspicion, or decides to practice some warm up skipping for his MMA class down by the clubhouse pool in the future.

  61. ay2z says:

    Breaking News!!! Mark O’Mara, the Irish red-headed lawyer goes prime time with his new show. Proves he ain’t predju… pregidust… prejudgdis…. biased against nobody.

    (he’s the one with the funny accent and a bottle of whiskey. And, he spins a story about his wife, blames her for something, all the while he’s talking about his own present situation with a hgh profile case…. handful is his (when in shame, find someone else to blame type situation, like client, like counsellor?)

  62. silk says:

    The info that was release on trayvon ,was it true ? I mean really let’s face it , the defense team lies to spin. I mean if the info was irrelevant ,why would (jn) release it ? Which leads me to Be leave that – theirs a very strong possibility that it is all false!! I be leave that omara obtain this irrelevant dream from the grand dragon ,sundance.

  63. fauxmccoy says:

    thanks, fred. i think using the may 28 hearing as a pre-trial experiment is a great idea as is incorporating your dear wife’s material. i’ve read her entire blog now at frog gravy, but not at FDL, but am looking forward to more, more, more!

    as to this latest release by the defense, i am not even looking at it much. i doubt that much will be entered as evidence and know the real purpose behind it along with the convenient ‘gimmees’ to ms stutzman whose journalistic integrity is in great question.

    • Thanks, fauxmccoy, I may rewrite much of the incarceration experience, or more like edit, and the legal case is really strange. I found in the case file last week, that a court order, issued after the trial and based on trial testimony was actually written, and based on trial testimony, FIVE MONTHS BEFORE the trial ever took place. The thing is FAxed, date and time stamped and everything. Pure gold, this stuff. I am still gathering FOIA.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        i wish you well with your FOIA. i do know the case is fascinating, i read every word you wrote and loved your artwork. i left a few comments along the way 🙂

      • Oh, and it was written on the prosecutor’s computer terminal. The court forgot to even change the stationery. So, not only did the Commonwelth suborn perjury at the Grand Jury, it suborned the whole trial, and now I have proof. And a camera.

    • Malisha says:

      The real point is that if Trayvon WERE a helluva fighter AND he were aggressive and dangerous AND he beat up Fogen on 2/26/2012 before being killed, here’s what we would have:

      1. Fogen’s blood all over Trayvon Martin’s dead body;
      2. Many and varied injuries on Trayvon Martin’s hands, especially knuckles and Fogen’s DNA under his fingernails;
      3. Something more than “capillary type lacerations” on Fogen;

      PROOF that TRAYVON MARTIN had stood his ground after being profiled, followed, frightened and accosted by hostile, depraved, ill-willed Fogen but before being shot through the heart with a hollowpoint bullet from Fogen’s gun.

  64. ay2z says:

    A G rated show promotes as you go through life, ‘keep on punching’. 😉

  65. KA says:

    There is not much lower you can sink than this defense team has done. I read the texts, they are talking about MMA. My college son was a church and camp youth leader and got together with kids and watched MMA matches. He MMA wrestled for fun and liked airsoft battles with friends. He is 23 and has never been in a “real” fight once in his life.

    His suspension was “skipping class”? That makes him a “thug”? Boy, we are all deserving of death now….

    I swear this team sold their soul when they took this case…

    • two sides to a story says:

      “team sold their soul when they took this case”

      I swear they need some fast and furious prayers because their the Treeper Madness defense intentions appear to be paving that proverbial path to HE double hockeysticks.

  66. Soulcatcher says:

    On the night he was murdered he didn’t have a gun, GZ had a gun, and used it. I know alot of teens who have a gold grill. My daughter even had one when she was a teen. I have a disc of pictures from the police dept when she in a fight with another girl. The pictures of george are laughable in comparison, and we’re talking about two 15 year old teen girls weighing about 130 pounds. I’d be embarressed if I were George to have those near death pictures out there for all to see. A 28, 200 lb man was in fear for his life and had to use a gun .What a joke. Wonder what his friends from Manasses think about the wimpy fat ass thugboat now.

    • boyd says:

      West and O’Mara are old fogies. they so excited by what they found, kids emulating what they see on TV and emulate the rappers.

      My oldest played that damm poker game on TV until I explained to him they play all day and night and fold 90% of the time, you only see the important hands. He never ever would have thought of playing but it’s on ESPN all the time.

      Ok, so the kid took a photo of a gun. We live in a gun culture they want everyone to have 20-30 guns so the NRA should be saying atta boy. He had no gun and there is no gun in evidence but george’s.

      • There is nothing the defense can publish that will put ANY weapon in the hands of Trayvon Martin on the night he was viciously killed. Trayvon Martin was unarmed and it will never change.

    • @Soulcatcher

      My youngest has a grill that he bought with his own money. It’s a fad. Some kids like it, some don’t. But it sure doesn’t make anyone a thug who has one. My son is the best son a mother could have. He’s always been an obedient shy kid with a kind heart. When he moved out and got an apartment I cried like a baby.

      • texad says:


        My grandson had a grill when he was a teen and it drove me crazy. When he visited me at my house I insisted that he take it out. Once I hid it and had to take an emergency trip out of town for almost a month and did not have a chance to give the grill back to him. By the time I got back in town he had lost interest in it.

        BTW, gold teeth have an interesting history in the South. I know that “back in the day” in the Texas / Louisiana area gold teeth were a sign of having earned some money. It had NOTHING to do with drugs or illegal activity because I can remember sweet little church ladies with open face crowns.

        And I concur with everyone who has called MOM and West out on their MESS. They have shown their true colors and BDLR should show them no mercy.

      • @Texad

        I don’t like my son with it either but it’s not my choice. But I do ask him to take it out whenever I see it. But that’s just me. And you’re so spot on about the open face crowns on little church ladies. Both men and women had gold face crowns at my home church. As for them being into drugs or illegal activity…no way on God’s green earth. These were Holy men and women of God.

      • texad says:

        @ SG2

        I usually use my grandmama card with my grandson. I can demand things of him that his mom and dad won’t. It’s getting a little harder-he’s in his 20’s now. LOL.

      • Jun says:

        Having real gold teeth does not mean you are a criminal

        My grandmother has gold teeth and she is not a gang member or a thug or a criminal

        They even have costume gold teeth for Halloween and other costume events, where some people feel like dressing up as a rapper

      • Two sides to a story says:

        As a kid in the Midwest in the 50s, I remember lots of people of all ages with gold crowns. My mom would have been in her 20s at the time and had a front tooth sheathed in gold until it was possible to get an all tooth-colored replacement, which may have been more expensive. It’s funny to think of her like that now – she looked like she had a grille! She should have put a diamond on it or something!

    • kllypyn says:

      He never got a gun it was probably a passing fancy.

      • Mary Davis says:

        @ Twosides, @ Texad, @ SouthernGirl.@ Soulcatcher. This may be hard to believe, but it’s true. My mother is 98 years old,and she still has all her teeth, even her gold crown, which she has had since she was 16 years old. I wonder if fogen would think she was suspicious, up to no good, on drugs or sumtem.

  67. Fred is offline for about an hour, folks. He has a Toshiba laptop with poor engineering at the power cord connection, such that, when he tripped on the cord, it knocked the little cage with the connection to the inside of the laptop. He is using all my ‘little tools’ to fix this, but it will take a ‘minute,’ which is an hour in Kentucky speak.

    • Bill Taylor says:

      i am fluent in Kentucky speak, being born there and growing up until i left for junior college at age 17…….my wife always comments about me trying to “fix” stuff and make it last, but even she admits our panasonic genius microwave bought in 1980 is still going strong 33 years later!

      • fauxmccoy says:

        reminds me of my dad, who could fix anything, provided it was manufactured before 1960. he helped me do a brake job on my old ford f100 a number of years ago and there were some bearings that had seized. ‘no problem he said, i just need to make an ‘arky wheel puller, this’ll just take a minute’. everything was ‘arky this/arky that’. sure enough, he built some nutty contraption that did indeed pull off a truck wheel, consisting of boards, chains and arky whatnot. it did take considerably more than a minute, but his arky inventions usually did the job, in spite of the fact that he hailed from utah.

      • Oh bless your heart! Another Kentucky person. I am a transplant from the Pacific Northwest, which qualifies me as an alien, in some circles, loved in other circles, and burned at the stake in still others, LOL!

        Really beautiful state.

      • PS Johnny Depp’s from here, and so is George Clooney!

      • Bill Taylor says:

        many people are “from” Kentucky……lee majors, loretta lynn, dwight yoakim, ricky skaggs, billy ray cyrus, stevie cauthen, the judds, bill monroe, …….in the eastern part there arent many jobs and it was so remote(no good roads) no factories could move in supplies and out the goods, of my class of 75 less than 10 stayed around and they all had families that owned businesses….when i first arrived at college in panama city florida the coach had written in the local paper saying when recruiting me he first flew in a plane, then road in a car, then switched to a 4 wheel drive, then a horse and finally a mule to get to my house!……..many students actually asked me if i liked wearing shoes now?…this boy left the hills long ago but those hills will NEVER leave me, hard work, honesty, your word is your bond, and get an education are rules i learned in those hills.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          bill, you done forgot my kinfolk … enemies of those danged hatfields 🙂 my branch of the family left the area generations ago, but there’s definitely a bit of it that has been passed down.

      • Bill Taylor says:

        the town i grew up in had the last death in that feud, the legal hanging of a vance fellow…..i went to school with kids from both families, a local eye doctor was roommates with dr. gil morgan the golfer in medical school in memphis, his name is ronnie mccoy……played basketball against ermal hatfield……the mccoy side all got very wealthy from the coal on their land….the funny thing is there were much larger feuds in Ky. back then, the marcums had a few feuds with people in breathitt county where some claim as many as 500 died over the years, and harlan was known as bloody harlan back then….the hatfields/mccoys became famous because it crossed state lines and the govs. of ky and west va got involved

        • fauxmccoy says:

          yeah, bill – i’m painfully aware of the history. i had long suspected that my family was related, but was not able to confirm it until relatively recently. there is a wonderful book called ‘feud’ written by altina walker that i can highly recommend. the photos alone are worth looking at – the family resemblance was very noticeable. there was also a good genealogy chart for both families from which i was able to pinpoint the ancestor we had in common. fascinating book about interesting times – use and abuse of the justice system and corruption. check it out if you get a chance. i plan to make it to pikeville sometime soon for the annual hatfield/mccoy picnic – should be fun 🙂

      • Love the little company truck with the slogan “We fix what your husband repaired.”

        Remarkable that you hold that rebounds record, because Kentucky has top notch sports, no joke at all.

        It really strikes me as three or maybe four states, it’s so big, and on the east part, I have met some lovely self-identified hillbillies and story tellers, the best ever.

        Although set in West Virginia, I loved the memoir The Glass Castle as well.

      • Bill Taylor says:

        those records were my school records not state records, i have never seen any listing of state records, the most well known high school player i guess would be king kelly coleman from wayland that played in the mid 50’s, he was a very strong rebounder and the coach in my town at the time john bill trivette coached against him and had retired while i was in grade school, but he worked with me one on one in summers when i was in high school, he told me he would give me his best effort as a coach ONLY if i did what he said and gave him 100% in return, we both lived up to our deal, i asked him how i compared to the greats he had coached for and against, he laughed at me, saying those kids couldnt touch the rim except for a couple, and you are playing the game a foot above the rim, none of them could come close as an athlete, but some of them did have better “skills” in basketball than me…he ended with if i needed one basket to win the most important game of my life, YOU would take that shot for me.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Crane, I loved the Glass Castle – one of the best memoirs I’ve ever read. I especially loved the contrast between her life in AZ, desert Cali, and then Kentucky. I could really relate to the settings and the way she presents a crazy life with pathos and humor.

        I have fond memories of visiting a Kentucky State Park when I was a kid on the way home from a famiy vacation to D.C. I have no clue why this park was empty – we were the only family camping in it – perhaps it was a week day – but it was beautiful – green hills, huge trees, a lake with water so clear it was like gazing into glass.

    • I’m back. Took my laptop apart and fixed it.

  68. ay2z says:

    The defense also released the Retreat at Twin Lakes (RTL newsletter with kudos about the recent alleged burglary arrests. Apparentlly the defense will want to show how good a job the neighborhood watch captain was doing.

    But isn’t this a sneaky way to get a ‘statement’ via publication by the defendant into evidence? Who filed this report to the newsletter? Or supplied the facts to the newsletter people?

    Isn’t this the same as the other ‘evidence’ diiscovery item, a ‘letter about the homeless Ware person” Who wrote that letter, was it fogen himself? That’s a statement of a murder defendant crafted for his own benefit, if so.

    • ay2z says:

      Source —

      The defense is likely to use this information as part of their effort to define how they want the jury to see Trayvon Martin, whom Zimmerman said he shot in self-defense in February 2012.

      Thursday’s release also included reports made by George Zimmerman of previous incidents at the Retreat at Twin Lakes, the neighborhood where the shooting took place. The incident reports detailed prowlers and burglaries in the subdivision.

      Also included was a screen capture from Twitter, showing a from the Retreat at Twin Lakes’ account:

      “Our Neighborhood Watch leads to four arrests in burglaries in the RTL. Great job!”
      — @RTL_News, posted Feb. 12, 2012

      • ay2z says:

        Remember what Sr Zim had to say about profiling? That his son, if his son saw an Asian in the community, he would say ‘wait a minute, I don’t recognize this person’.

        So Sr. Zim didn’t say, if his son saw a stranger in the community, he used an example of race as the reason to create suspicion, not simply ‘stranger’.

      • That information, if offered to prove the truth of the matters asserted in the newsletter, is hearsay and also irrelevant.

        This is just a sleazy effort to publicize inadmissible evidence to poison the jury pool.

      • PiranhaMom says:

        @ay2z –

        Re: ““Our Neighborhood Watch leads to four arrests in burglaries in the RTL. Great job!”
        – @RTL_News, posted Feb. 12, 2012”

        Yep, and it only cost over a million bucks to settle out of court for Zimmerputz’s actions. Way to go, HOA!

    • KA says:

      Where’s the “mentored” kids?

  69. Zia B. says:

    First, Kudos to Crane-Station and Fred for combining sites. It will be a win-win!

    Secondly, thank you for all of the work you are about to do to keep us all informed on what happens with Fogen’s temporary freedom.

    And last, I am still disgusted from yesterday’s garbage. Now these idiots are saying that what a teen says through text messages to his peers is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I am sure if Skeletor and Mommy Dearest could think back, way back to their childhood they too would remember that teenagers lie. They lie a little, then a little more just for shiggles (Sh!ts+Giggles). And who do they mostly lie on, themselves, what happened at school and their parents!

    Man, I really should have gone to law school if the defense attorneys can pass the bar, by golly, there is hope for me yet. Oh, but I don’t know how to read. That doesn’t matter. Maybe Papa Smurf can bribe someone so I can get a legal gig…ooops that ain’t working out too well for Fogen. Seems Papa Smurf ain’t so smart himself.

    But June 10 is a coming…doom doom doom.

    • We are gonna unspin the no-spin zone on Zimmerman! We are HLN, scoot over, Nancy and make room, LOL.

      We #own this.

    • PiranhaMom says:

      @Zia B and all the students at “Leatherman U” –

      Kudos for YOUR statement, Zia:

      “First, Kudos to Crane-Station and Fred for combining sites. It will be a win-win!

      “Secondly, thank you for all of the work you are about to do to keep us all informed on what happens with Fogen’s temporary freedom.”

      Zia, yes, we’re moving into high gear as the trial approaches. Where would we be without the past year’s effort – way mo’ than a year – by Professor Fred & Crane?

      Where would we get our comprehension of the legal action coming forward?

      We need to keep this site strong and growing. We need to contribute financially to support Fred in his round-the-clock, full-time effort.

      He crafts precise legal essays that we can all understand.

      He is the tiger at the gate, keeping out the crazies, the malcontents, the racists, the disgusting.

      It’s a 24/7 effort, valiantly mounted.

      For our part, we need to keep hitting the PayPal button, up top/right, to keep this teaching site/learning forum going – for JUSTICE FOR TRAYVON and for continued justice for all.

      Friends, here’s a hint: Fred has a birthday coming up in June – and it has a “6” in it. So it’s time to crank out those contributions for $6, $16, $26, $60, $160 – even $600 if it fits your budget. You decide your personal level of support – and appreciation.

      Keep this site alive & vital.


      • We are really in brainstorm mode and passionate about this site, and will be making some changes, giving it a title and a slogan, and some other things. We will be taking suggestions, because it’s everybody’s site, for real. The stats from WordPress on this site are quite remarkable: 910,000 views all time, with steady hourly traffic, so we are going to try to do this. My son has also been very helpful with suggestions.

      • Zia B. says:

        Thanks @PiranhaMom!

      • parrot says:


      • Mary Davis says:

        @ PirahaMom.

        “We need to keep this site strong and growing. We need to contribute financially to support Fred in his round-the clock, full-time effort.”. Amen to that. The stinkhouse would like nothing better than for this site to close down.

        • Xena says:

          @Mary Davis.

          The stinkhouse would like nothing better than for this site to close down.

          You bet they would. There is a Zidiot in Jacksonville partnered with another Zidiot who goes around sending demeaning, threatening comments to blog administrators. They include threats of spreading false information about them, and they also attack other blog administrators. Their hatred for Leatherman is without words.

  70. ay2z says:

    Hope the 5th gets something in an order before the weekend too.

  71. ay2z says:

    SG, thanks. Will read that.

    I hope they can get on one of the national morning shows tomorrow morning, because Friday is the day the defense lawyers have typically used to visit these shows, GMA, TODAY, etc, so their message gets shared all weekend without response from any opponents to counter their spins.

    What you bet O’Mara is, via FOX, HLN and one of the NYC early shows, going to be headlining all weekend.

    This is a major push before the next hearing, where this ‘evidence’ will or won’t come into play, and where the state can will be seen and heard in response.

  72. Statement by the family of Trayvon Martin in response to release of pics/texts by attorneys for George Zimmerman

    “The only photos or videos that are relevant or admissible at trial are those of Trayvon taken the day he was shot and killed by George Zimmerman. There is no evidence that Trayvon neither had gold teeth nor gave anybody the finger the night he was shot and killed. Therefore those pictures are irrelevant and will not be admitted into evidence. Is the defense trying to prove Trayvon deserved to be killed by George Zimmerman because the way he looked? If so, this stereotypical and closed-minded thinking is the same mindset that caused George Zimmerman to get out of his car and pursue Trayvon, an unarmed kid who he didn’t know. The pre-trial release of these irrelevant red herrings is a desperate and pathetic attempt by the defense to pollute and sway the jury pool. The evidence that will be admitted at trial is the legally documented history of George Zimmerman’s propensity for violence, such as his arrest for battery on a law enforcement officer, his injunction to prevent domestic violence taken out by his ex-girlfriend, and evidence of his training as a bouncer for Data Whore Productions, Inc.”

    • ay2z says:


      • ay2z says:

        Selecting the last sentence for emphasis——>

        The evidence that will be admitted at trial is the legally documented history of George Zimmerman’s propensity for violence, such as his arrest for battery on a law enforcement officer, his injunction to prevent domestic violence taken out by his ex-girlfriend, and evidence of his training as a bouncer for Data Whore Productions, Inc.”

        Thank you again SG, for quickly getting this link and quote posted here.

      • ay2z says:

        This relates to the selected quote:

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Guess it is time to quote George Zimmerman’s 2005 MySpace page again.

        Im still free! The ex hoe tried her hardest, but the judge saw through it!

        2 felonies dropped to 1 misdemeanor!!!!!!!!!!! The man knows he was wrong but still got this hump, Thanks to everyone friends and fam, G baby you know your my rock!

        oh yea, my lil sista hits like a grown MOTHER FUCKIN MAN!!!!

      • ay2z says:

        Great point, YAHGC, and it begs the question, how does fogen know what a grown M-F’n man hits like?

        She better be careful, someone finds her suspicious, or tries to take advantage when she’s out and about, if she reacts with that quality and power in a punch, she could be giving an attacker, rapist or mugger, the right to pull out his gun and shoot her to kill. Self-defense you know, it’s the person left alive that can claim it without question in Florida.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Yes, ay2z, I made a special point of including that point about his “lil sista”.

        Also, GZ certainly uses that word “fu@kin” a lot.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        GZ’s 2005 MySpace page sounds like a THUG’s page.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        gz had to extend his pretrial diversion program in 2006 because as the document (docketed by: E Martins) shows :

        “I (gz) now advised by my Pretrial officer that my program participation has not been satisfactory, and I hereby agreed to have my period of supervision extended for a period of (two)2 months, with a new termination date of 9-10-06, in order to successfully complete the Pretrial Diversion Program”

        By the way, that document is filed in the Orange County Correctional Department’s area. Case #48-2005-MM-010436-O/A
        This case # matches up to the one about the felony assault on a police officer…..that was reduced to a misdemeanor because he took an anger management course.

Miller, W Michael

    • two sides to a story says:

      We’re still with you, Trayvon. Hoodies up!

      I should be working but would like to add some yak. I’ve raised 4 teens – in fact, the baby just turned 19.

      I have two boys and have had many hair-raising “adventures” in parenting. It gets especially interesting in the 15-18 year-old range as kids reach peak rebellion and then start to come to their senses.

      I have a 21-year-old, bipolar, who I would have loved to have kicked out of the house many times had there been anywhere to kick him too. Oh, he went to school every day – just to socialize. He would sit in class and sometimes disturb it, sometimes listen. Never did assignments, rarely took tests. I can’t tell you how embarrassing this is when you’re involved in education. He literally did nothing and dropped out his senior year.

      We had the pot thing, which I wasn’t hugely alarmed about except that he was on meds and combined with his other behavior . . . I had to raise hell about it. We had melt-downs, wall-punching, and all sorts of other stuff to contend with. Went through a BB gun phase. Long story short – I didn’t think I’d survive him – but on the cusp of 19-20, when the hormones died down a bit and he began to understand himself better, he picked up his GED without studying at all, enrolled in a high-powered music school in Hollywood, and is now a smokin’ and passionate guitarist, can imitate any type of music, writes his own lyrics and music, spends his spare time beefing up on anything from calculus to foreign languages and sciences online because he’s working on going on to university for more music studies and some academic work and a BA. You could always see the peaceful, good-hearted person underneath all the swagger and rebellion, and it finally came to the surface, his true nature. He’s one of the kids who will be changing the world in years to come. And he looks a whole lot like Trayvon too, one reason I got involved in following this case. I had teachers on my side who said they always felt he was a good kid and super smart – but I fought tooth and nail with school administrators who tried to make him out to be a thug. I won, by the way. Hell hath no fury like a pissed-off mother . . .

      I have no doubt that the Martin family knows all this their son and raising kids – they’ve raised other kids too – and that Trayvon was on the same trajectory.

      Hell, Fogen, from what we see did some of the same things – smack talk on line to impress his peers, alcohol abuse, got himself in some scrapes. He seems to have turned himself around – school, marriage, the intentions of career, trying to help his neighbourhood – however, the difference is, he played gun games for reals, has delusions about being better than others, and he killed a young, unarmed man and could have totally avoided doing that.

      Notice: Fogen is the DEFENDENT killer and Trayvon is the VICTIM. Anything else coming from the defense is simply Treeper madness.

      Just remember! –

      • KA says:

        Oh, I think if Trayvon’s pictures and texts and social media is allowed evidence, so shall GZ’s. His rant about “Mexicans” and “beating the rap..” of a jail sentence and all that “tough talk” on MySpace will be interesting in the courtroom….oh…what about the coworker he taunted, bullied, and tortured for a year? That should be there too.

        I keep remembering the wise words of Judge Lester “The only persons’ youth that will be taken into consideration is the victims”

  73. Today Trayvon’s a fighter? He texted about being beat, unable to do anything. He had an interest in guns? I’m sorry but GZ was carrying a gun that he shouldn’t have been carrying for NHW duty.

    This is all so pathetic. I have written in various posts about my love for Old People’s Soccer, where people show up for an indoor match and act like animals and sociopaths for a good part of the evening, then get up and go to work the next day, and blend in.

    Does that mean I should be gunned down in the street now?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      “people show up for an indoor match and act like animals and sociopaths for a good part of the evening, then get up and go to work the next day, and blend in.”

      Sports, a universal tradition embraced heartily in the USA!

      • Old People’s coed indoor soccer is flat out insane. Constant rat-a-tat-tat machine gun balls hitting the walls, punctuated with a variety of foul language and behavior. But as bad as that is, Old People’s Softball might be worse, and if you throw in Old Mens Noontime Basketball, it’s amazing most of America isn’t in jail.

        Stutzman and Weiner make me want to shower and then jump into a vat of bleach.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Everybody needs to blow off steam.

        Stutzman and Weiner just need to blow off. Pfft.

  74. Rachael says:

    I just got this email, supposedly a response from Trayvon’s parents:

    “”The only photos or videos that are relevant or admissible at trial are those of Trayvon taken the day he was shot and killed by George Zimmerman. There is no evidence that Trayvon neither had gold teeth nor gave anybody the finger the night he was shot and killed. Therefore those pictures are irrelevant and will not be admitted into evidence. Is the defense trying to prove Trayvon deserved to be killed by George Zimmerman because the way he looked? If so, this stereotypical and closed-minded thinking is the same mindset that caused George Zimmerman to get out of his car and pursue Trayvon, an unarmed kid who he didn’t know. The pre-trial release of these irrelevant red herrings is a desperate and pathetic attempt by the defense to pollute and sway the jury pool. The evidence that will be admitted at trial is the legally documented history of George Zimmerman’s propensity for violence, such as his arrest for battery on a law enforcement officer, his injunction to prevent domestic violence taken out by his ex-girlfriend, and evidence of his training as a bouncer for Data Whore Productions, Inc.”

    • The defense just made a strong case for its own bigotry.

      • Bill Taylor says:

        astute observation for indeed the defense is clearly stating THEY profiled Martin even after his death….they are DOING the very thing they claim fogen didnt do!

      • Shari says:

        You are correct. They are so blinded by hate that they can’t see what they have done. Please explain what does any of this have to do with anything? Text messages and social media pics are not proof of anything. My husband loves metaphors and some of the things he texts me are really crazy. What does that have to do with the night Trayvon was murdered?

        Sometimes a defense attorney will defend a client without walking in agreement with them. In this case I can only assume that Fogen’s lawyers are hateful bigots just like their client.

        We all hurt for Sybrina and Tracy but the trial will begin next month. There are rules of evidence and Fogen will not Have Hannity and Renee to trash the murdered child anymore. The state will be there to protect all victims of crime.

        What decade are these guys living in? This is not like in the past when a call girl could not seek any relief in court. The state is not going to pick and choose who is worthy of protection. Equal protection under the law for all.

        • ” I can only assume that Fogen’s lawyers are hateful bigots just like their client.”

          I was hesitant to say anything at first, but I agree, and have, for some time now.

      • two sides to a story says:

        From your lips to God’s ears. Outta hand, Westie.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Trayvon’s texts mean nothing.

      What has meaning is that gz is incriminated by his own words and by the evidence.

    • that’s Natalie Jackson. but don’t you think these tweets are a little too exact? as if Trayvon just happened to “act out” each of those tweets on gz that night?
      1. wanting a gun = grabbing at gz’s gun
      2. being on the ground = getting gz on the ground, complete with just how helpless he was with someone on top.
      3. and bragging about his reputation.= just as jr is talking about how Trayvon portrayed himself..

      I mean look at that BS, I don’t buy it at all. who talks about getting a gun on twitter? he had family on that account, he deff communicated with his cousins at times. who knows who else was on there. and if you don’t know about twitter, when someone tweets, everyone on their list sees what they write! EVERYONE!

      there’s also the FACT of someone hacking into his account, then these kinds of tweets showing up. and a bunch of fake accounts made. so i’ll wait to see if these are even authenticated before i’ll believe it.

      and who knows if it’s even possible to authenticate because twitter deletes everything 60 days after the account gets closed.
      it all sounds too neat and tidy, comments that fit tightly into the defenses narrative, all most verbatim!!

      • ay2z says:

        Crossed my mind too, if Trayvon had visited and stayed before, and fogen had a buddy in some arm of the law, and friends in SPD, or PI or both, he might have found out about Trayvon and done some research.

      • boyd says:

        good point his account was hacked into. too many ways to slip a file in. I did a little IT admin as a backup (hated it) but all you may need is access, change the file date, change the logs.

      • Mary Davis says:

        @ Shannon. I agree. If there was any “dirt” on Trayvon, it would have come out by now. Everyone that knew Trayvon talked highly of him, even Dee Dee said he was a mamma’s boy. This is just to taint the jury pool and solicit more money from the stinkhouse. This is BS.

    • ladystclaire says:

      @Crane-Station, I have had that same belief about these two defense jerks. you see, if they were not racist bigots themselves, they IMO wouldn’t associate with the likes at the CONSERVATIVE CESSPOOL. I pray to GOD that, those who will serve on that jury, will not be swayed by the underhanded tactics of two defense lawyers who don’t no bit more know what they are doing, than the man in the moon.

      This is outrageous and they both know it as well as the OS, who have done nothing but do their part in trashing this deceased child. O’ stupid has aged ten years in one and, it’s all because of his greed and lying ways concerning this case. I’m going on a trip with my sisters, nieces, to Charleston SC in July. I sure could use those bags under O’stupid’s eyes because, they will hold more than my bag ever could.

      Stop lying on and about this kid O’stupid. your client murdered a child and, he is no damn better than the rest of the criminals in this country to be put behind bars where he belongs.

    • kllypyn says:

      Is giving the finger to someone a death penalty offense now? If it is the human race is about to be extint because we are all about to be executed including zimmerpunk and his family.

  75. ay2z says:

    fox orlando has it headlined. Maybe fox miami will cover it too.

  76. Leisa says:

    After all of the whining by the defense about discovery, they wait until now to submit discovery. How can they be so hypocritical?

  77. Rachael says:

    I am so pissed off right now, I can’t see straight. I so agree about the kids talking smack, it is what they do and they all try to outdo the other.

  78. Shari says:

    I wish this trial would hurry up and start. None of that is relevant.

    What happened that night? When are they going to talk about that? Will they talk about George Zimmerman chasing Trayvon and murdering him? There is no evidence Trayvon ever laid a hand on Zimmerman. This is like Birth of a Nation all over again, dishonest propaganda against black men.

    Racism will never die, it’s learned.

  79. Donna Flores says:

    Can someone explain to me why we havent seen any of George’s text messages or phone pics? I want to know who he called seconds after killing the kid

    • ay2z says:

      Because the defense is in the driver’s seat for discovery releases, the state can not send discovery to the press or public, and no one at any media outlet as made requests directly, they all go through the gz designed and operated ‘outlet’.

    • ay2z says:

      If someone is near the Seminole courthouse, maybe they can go over and request documents.

    • The State is going to introduce that stuff at the trial. Both sides agreed not to publicize the text messages, emails and phone information provided by the State. Not sure if this stuff was obtained from the State or independently by the defense. In any event, this appears to be a violation of the spirit of that agreement, if not the letter.

      Does an occasional pot smoking teenage fighter in organized refereed fights, and not a very good fighter given Trayvon’s description, strike fear into the hearts of mere mortals?

      I didn’t think so.

      This is more absurd crap from the sleazy defense.

      • bettykath says:

        From the article, “Defense attorneys in the George Zimmerman case today released evidence they discovered on Trayvon Martin’s cell phone…”

        They got the cell phone from the state, but found the text messages on their own.

      • JustMe says:

        I am truly sickened by this attempted assassination of this murdered kid and the blatant attempt to poison the jury pool. Words fail me as to what I think of this defense team because I am so angry at this point. But what does come to mind is that they are so desperate, this underhanded violation of this courts order shows how clearly desperate and depraved minded this defendant and his defense team are.

        Can BDLR demand sanctions?

      • ay2z says:

        WFTV has a headline and second line story about the photos on the front page, the photos story carries a ‘WARNING GRAPHIC CONTENT’ in the headline.

        That is a warning if you want to look at Trayvon’s images…. talk about ‘sway’.

      • @ay2z

        Do you have the link? I read somewhere else about a graphic photo but I am yet to see one.

      • kllypyn says:


      • ay2z says:

        SG2, I don’t have the link offhand, that was wftv, so can look it up. I didn’t look at the photos, but I am sure the photo warning was about the finger gesture photo, which is what we’ve all seen before, sometimes with a redaction.

        That’s all, it’s a warning for the ultra sensitive and the defense wanted to offend any potential jurors who are offended. Or who need an excuse to be offended.

        The warning is offensive, knowing the context. wftv could simple block the gestures if they wanted to.

      • ay2z says:

        SG2, yes, the graphic image is the finger, and on wftv, it’s got a redaction on it. Nothing new at all.

        (there is the photo of the referee in the skate park, the boy in the striped shirt is supposedly Trayvon, and he has arms out to the sides, now with the fight video, it’s clear the striped shirt person is the referee holding arms out between the opponents.

        If that was Trayvon, he was ref’ing, not fighting.

  80. Donna Flores says:

    Fight among each with each other’s consent. That in no way implies he just goes up to people and jumps them. It’s more of fight club, where the best fighter win. There are some teams out there that are interest in boxing and MMA.

  81. None of this refereed fight stuff is relevant or even illegal, but if Judge Nelson lets any of it in, she also will let in all of the prior assaultive conduct by the defendant, which is far worse.

    Defense can ill afford to go down this road.

    Shame on them for bringing up this kid’s stuff.

    Height of false equivalency.

    • kllypyn says:


  82. trina cosbie says:

    More irrelevancy to prejudice a jury in case Nelson doesn’t let any of this in. That’s why MOM is on the number #1bigotted news channel spinning this ish!!!

  83. Two sides to a story says:

    People need to keep in mind that teens talk a lotta smack about stuff to appear cool with their peers . . .

    • @Two Sides

      All day long. I have 2 boys and they talk smack but won’t bust a grape at a fruit fight.

    • elcymoo says:

      That’s true, Two sides, and that’s how Trayvon’s tweets appear to me. He couldn’t have been all that skilled as a fighter, if he was one, since his opponent apparently won the first ‘fight’ he tweeted about, and we have no way of knowing if these were real fights or just the staged ‘street fights’ with boxing gloves shown in one of those videos.

      The ‘golds’ he mentioned were apparently those ‘grills’ in the photo he posted on FB.

      It’s not surprising that any male teenager would be interested in guns, since so many people in FL not only have such interest, but own guns – GZ and his wife, for example.

      His reference to his mother’s ordering him to move sounds like it might have been one of the other times he’d gone to visit his dad at RTVC, and being suspended from school for cutting classes pales in comparison to GZ’s record of offenses.

      If the defense team should succeed in their attempt to enter this as evidence during trial, would they be opening the door to having derogatory information about GZ’s history introduced by the prosecution?

      I suspect that the primary goal was just to get this ‘evidence’ out in the media, thus tainting the jury pool to an even greater degree than the defense team already has.

      • If the defense team should succeed in their attempt to enter this as evidence during trial, would they be opening the door to having derogatory information about GZ’s history introduced by the prosecution?

        I suspect that the primary goal was just to get this ‘evidence’ out in the media, thus tainting the jury pool to an even greater degree than the defense team already has.

        Yes and Yes.

      • towerflower says:

        I wish the state could release some of fogen’s emails and texts now.

      • Jun says:

        Another issue is the tweets could also be phonies, whereby someone hacks the account and tweets it out as a prank, or the tweets could be about a video game with fighting in it

  84. Rachael says:

    Supposedly MO’M is or will be or just was on Fox news about his latest crap.

    • Bill Taylor says:

      it was incredible…..he has a picture of a GUN, another picture of a black hand holding a gun, and a picture of a tiny marijuana seedling…….Megyn asked him how are these relevant? omara has NO defense on any level and is ONLY trying to poison the jury pool!

      • Rachael says:

        Exactly – they make me puke!!!

      • cielo62 says:

        Like teens don’t text even WORSE things! Or has MOM never heard of sexting?? Those sound like pretty common things many male teens would play with, just to act “tough.” AND AGAIN, weed makes you MELLOW, not violent.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        Isn’t that the goal of gun loving Americans, a gun in every hand?

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Some of my kids texts and FB funnies were ridiculous and stood my hair on end. I’m sure they’re embarrassed by some ot if now. Not saying all kids do this, but it’s a phase some go through and grow out of.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: