Donald West files frivolous, dishonest and intentionally misleading document in Zimmerman case

Wednesday, May 22, 2013

Good afternoon:

The defense filed a silly and offensive motion yesterday in the Trayvon Martin murder case titled, Defendant’s Reply to State’s Motion for Protective Order/Motion in Limine Regarding Toxicology.

I call it silly and offensive because it makes the absurd argument that the presence of a trace amount of marijuana in Trayvon Martin’s autopsy blood sample makes it more probable than not (i.e., the test for relevancy) that Trayvon Martin attacked the defendant without provocation and attempted to beat him to death with his bare hands.

Welcome back to 1936 and Reefer Madness. Come on, son!

The State seeks to exclude any testimony regarding Trayon Martin’s toxicology report that shows the use of marijuana around the time of his death, February 26, 2012. As part of the autopsy protocol, the Medical Examiner submitted Trayvon Maritin’s blood for laboratory analysis. Among the findings includes a positive level for THC and its metabolites. The active THC was measured at 1.5 ng/ml whereas the metabolite was measured at 7.3 ng/ml. This level is sufficient to cause some impairment (although it is connsidered to be less than that required for a DUI arrest) according to the state’s toxicologist, Dr. Bruce Goldberger. At his deposition, Dr. Goldberger cited to the research of Dr. Marilyn Heustis, who studies the residual effect of marijuana on cognitive functioning. Dr. Heustis has found that measurable impairment continues for days or weeks in chronic users. Dr. Godlberger opined that Trayvon Martin may have used marijuana within a couple of hours of his death or it could have been longer than that depending on whether Trayvon Martin was chronic user or an occasional user. From other evidence in the case, it is known that Trayvon Martin brought marijuana with him from south Florida to use while he was in Sanford and he used it at least one time after arriving in Sanford prior to his death. Trayvon Martin was suspended from school for possessing a baggie containing marijuana residue and was known to smoke marijuana with his friends.

In George Zimmerman’s NEN call to the police, he described the person later identified as Trayvon Martin, as appearing as though “he was on drugs.” Additionally, on close inspection of Trayvon Martin’s appearance at the 711, where he was recorded on video within ah hour of his death, he “sways” at the counter as if he is under the influence of some substance. Taken altogether it is likely that Trayvon Martin was under the influence of marijuana at the time of his death and that his thinking and judgment were impaired, at least to some degree. This is relevant evidence for the jury to consider when it evaluates TM actions that night, and the jury should be allowed to give whatever weight it believes it should.

There is so much wrong here that I almost do not know where to begin.

First, West should have attached an affidavit from Dr. Heustis. He did not, so I checked her out on PubMed. A search using “Marilyn A. Heustis and cognitive impairment,” pulled up two articles:

1. Cannabis effects on driving skills.

The Summary states:

Differences in study designs frequently account for inconsistencies in results between studies. Participant-selection bias and confounding factors attenuate ostensible cannabis effects, but the association with MVA often retains significance. Evidence suggests recent smoking and/or blood THC concentrations 2-5 ng/mL are associated with substantial driving impairment, particularly in occasional smokers. Future cannabis-and-driving research should emphasize challenging tasks, such as divided attention, and include occasional and chronic daily cannabis smokers.

2. The dose effects of short-term dronabinol (oral THC) maintenance in daily cannabis users.

The Conclusion states:

Dronabinol’s ability to dose-dependently suppress cannabis withdrawal may be therapeutically beneficial to individuals trying to stop cannabis use. The absence of gross cognitive impairment or side effects in this study supports safety of doses up to 120mg/day. Continued evaluation of dronabinol in targeted clinical studies of cannabis treatment, using an expanded range of doses, is warranted.

(Emphasis supplied)

Ahem! Now we know why there is no affidavit from Dr. Heustis.

Next, we have,

Dr. Godlberger opined that Trayvon Martin may have used marijuana within a couple of hours of his death or it could have been longer than that depending on whether Trayvon Martin was chronic user or an occasional user.

Not terribly helpful, but wait . . .

From other evidence in the case, it is known that Trayvon Martin brought marijuana with him from south Florida to use while he was in Sanford and he used it at least one time after arriving in Sanford prior to his death. Trayvon Martin was suspended from school for possessing a baggie containing marijuana residue and was known to smoke marijuana with his friends.

The famous reliable witness known as “It” knows that Trayvon brought marijuana with him. Funny how this fella named “It” failed to provide an affidavit or even an address. Oh, well.


In George Zimmerman’s NEN call to the police, he described the person later identified as Trayvon Martin, as appearing as though “he was on drugs.” Additionally, on close inspection of Trayvon Martin’s appearance at the 711, where he was recorded on video within ah hour of his death, he “sways” at the counter as if he is under the influence of some substance.

Ah, yes. The always accurate and reliable eyewitness George Zimmerman, who would never think of giving a self-serving statement.

So, now we are down to swaying at the counter.

Yeah right.

How about the conclusion:

Taken altogether it is likely that Trayvon Martin was under the influence of marijuana at the time of his death and that his thinking and judgment were impaired, at least to some degree. This is relevant evidence for the jury to consider when it evaluates TM actions that night, and the jury should be allowed to give whatever weight it believes it should.

Put another way, this legal pleading is pure speculation based on a dishonest premise and no evidence.

What really pisses me off about Mr. West’s pleading is the underlying and unspoken assumption that Trayvon Martin deserved to be killed because Mr. West believes he was high on marijuana.

Don West should be assessed terms for contempt of court by filing a frivolous, dishonest and intentionally misleading reefer-madness document.


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445 Responses to Donald West files frivolous, dishonest and intentionally misleading document in Zimmerman case

  1. Trained Observer says:

    Trayvon could have had the secret official recipe for Coca-Cola on his phone along with a map for where D.B. Cooper landed, and it wouldn’t have anything to do with how Fogen murdered an unarmed teen.

  2. racerrodig says:

    Breaking News. O’ Mara just reported Fogen sent e-mails & tweets to every resident to be on the lookout for a black male, late teens suspected of burglary. Huhhhhhhh ??

    1st, it took over a year to come up with this???? Nobody there ever said this, Robbie the Racist, Papa Z, Taffe, especially Taaffe, Oliver, ever stated this. AND Trayvon hadn’t been there yet. To me this is shit they just make up on the fly and it confirms Fogen was on the hunt. He was bound and determined to use his pistol on someone.

    • Malisha says:

      Ibrahim Rashadah, a homeowner at RTL, TOLD THIS TO THE PRESS in March 2012. He said that HE himself fit the description that Fogen had been handing out in the neighborhood on the flyer telling them all to watch out for young Black men who were burglars. He said that he had chosen not to take walks in the neighborhood because of Fogen’s propensity to “chase” Black residents. He said if he wanted to stretch his legs he would drive downtown because “I don’t want to be chased.” His wife cried because she was pregnant then and she was thinking about how bad it would be for her baby to grow up thinking he could be chased for being Black.

      This was all information available to the press back in March 2012 before Fogen was charged.

      • racerrodig says:

        I knew about Ibrahim Rashadah last year, but this is the 1st I heard about any alleged e-mails by Fogen. If it’s true, it’s makes it worse for Fogen as Trayvon had not been they yet. Not only that, there was nowhere near as make burglaries as Fogen claimed.

        • Shari says:

          Their problem is that they think racial profiling is okay. What is strange is that last year they were denying that Zimmerman racially profiled Trayvon. Now they are providing more proof that yes he did.

          Zimmerman needs to understand that he is not in any authority to profile anyone as a criminal. Does he have any prior work with the FBI? Any expertise on profiling? NO.

          • Profiling is wrong regardless who does it or why they do it.

          • Shari says:

            I mentioned in another comment that I like to watch Crime TV. When Tru TV was Court TV I would watch Dayle Hinman who was a profiler with the FBI. She would help solve cold cases by building a profile of the perp.

            I am against the stop and frisk policies in places like New York where only black and brown people are stopped and seen as suspicious. Israel profiles but not racially I think they look for body language.

            So in the case of the FBI do you reject the ideal of profiling in total?

  3. ay2z says:

    OS healines it’s next round, now it’s front page photos of Trayvon blowing smoke rings (say, does anyone use pot smoke to do this?)

    Headline, is now about Trayvon involved in fighting. The defense evidence dump is giving the OS multiple headlines to rotate on the top story position, complete with rotating photos of highlights.

    Orlando Sentinal’s speculates that —

    The text messages about fighting may be the most damaging to the state.

    I have a low level belt from a martial arts club from college days. Does that mean I am out to pick a fight? If fogen had taken the lessons in a similar college club, he would have been prepared to block a blow and put an aggressor to his knees and pin him there with a a simple and effective wrist hold without ever making an aggressive move.

    He could also, from the ‘t’ location he describes, have tucked into a backwards roll on the slope he indicates, perfect to bring ‘a guy’ over top of him with a simple backwards tuck and roll. Then he could have been up and away, or pulled his gun and used his voice to warn the guy to freeze. And call out to neighbors to call 911 and to identify himself by name as a neighbor.

    Minimally he could have thrown punches and low blows and poked eyes, used a bite, pulled the guy’s hoodie down over his eyes, used anything to defend. But he only ‘pushed’ away (so he says and his undamaged hands support) and took it until he had enough excuse to kill at point blank.

    • Malisha says:

      There would not be a tape of “I’m begging you” [something that Fogen NEVER alleged HE said at any point in the event] if Trayvon Martin were a competent fighter good enough to disarm a man with a handgun. There would have been Fogen saying: “Don’t shoot; the cops are on their way; I see them right now!”

  4. trina cosbie says:

    Pics are just more irrelevancy to try & prejudice a jury in case Nelson doesn’t let any of this in.

  5. Stormwatch says:

    Pretty tacky of the defense team to be posting stuff on the web and giving stuff to the Orlando Sentinel that the court has yet to rule on the admissibility of. I suspect that it will be ruled inadmissible and this is just the defense teams way of trying to prejudice potential jurors. By disseminating information to the public that the court has not yet ruled on the admissibility of, is the defense team breaking any rules of criminal procedure or any ethics rules?

  6. A grown woman smearing a dead child to get ratings and hits on an article is lower than dirt

  7. Rachael says:

    Apparently MO’M gonna be on Fox news now?

  8. Rachael says:

    Found this comment somewhere else. WTF???

    “Just had a quick read through some of his texts… Interesting stuff… By the sounds of things George is lucky to be alive, to me it sounds like Trey was into a bit more that just selling weed… Sounds like he may have been buying/selling guns as well!!! (Or at least that how it looked to me..!!)”

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Eh. More Treeper madness.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      That would be the treeper reaction to Rene Stutzman’s latest article in the Orlando Sentinel with accompanying pictures of potted pot plants, a brown-skinned hand holding a gun, GZ’s “graduation” photo… I wonder if these photos were provided by O’Mara and West to O’Mara and West, who then released them to Stutzman, who then published them so that the treepers could act all shocked.

  9. ay2z says:

    I don’t believe the implication as in ‘professional OS reporter Stuzman’ implies as ‘fact’ about Sybrina telling Trayvon to ‘move out’ of her home.

    That is a blatant ‘lie’ by Stuzman, by implication. She did that last year on CNN, and other reporters called her out on it, but she wouldn’t back down, saying she stands by her reports.

    She does it again. OS bought out by the same conglomerate that runs the gun lobbys?

    • ay2z says:

      Maybe the Stuz is selling out to some unethical, biased editor in chief?

      • Malisha says:

        Stutz is doing what Stutz wants to do. She may be suffering from some degree of “Jeralyn-In-Love-with-Brave-Defender-of-lilly-white-womanhood-Syndrome,” which is not yet listed in the DSM-V because it was removed from the 1865 version of the “DSM-Southern-pre-K” after that incident at Appomattax.

  10. ay2z says:

    Fogen’s defense could include that he believed Trayvon had a weapon possibly, and this is documented by his ‘apology’ to the parents in court, in front of Judge Lester.

    Can they offer this testimony as testimony to this statement by the defendant at trial?

    See the photo in the latest OS stream of a black hand holding a gun. There is a gun shop owner on the witness list, isn’t there?

    • Xena says:

      @ay2z. Fogen’s defense could include that he believed Trayvon had a weapon possibly, and this is documented by his ‘apology’ to the parents in court, in front of Judge Lester.

      GZ already contradicted himself on that claim.

      • New story up on CNN about mom’s latest response…..with the pics from Trayvons phone……

        In 3 hours overs 11,000 comments…..still arguing “The dispatcher was not a police officer”…..and the rest of the zidiot garbage…

        Kinda sad when I sit here loathing the “people” that support the primary one I loath…….

        • Xena says:


          In 3 hours overs 11,000 comments…..still arguing “The dispatcher was not a police officer”…..and the rest of the zidiot garbage…

          The only person that night whose lack of authority is important in this case is GZ’s. He had no authority to follow Trayvon. He had no authority to get on Trayvon’s back. He had no authority to instruct Trayvon to be still.

          Think of self-defense law. According to GZ, he got on Trayvon’s back AFTER he perceived Trayvon was giving up. A person starting a fight and giving up does not give the other person authority to take physical control over them. And, according to his story, GZ did that while still having his gun out.

          That’s not shooting in self-defense. According to GZ’s story, and by the evidence of his actions, he shot Trayvon in order to exercise unauthorized authority over him; dead or alive.

      • racerrodig says:

        He’s screwed no matter what avenue he takes.

        If he thinks Trayvon was armed… what Fogen, you were…..!!

        If he thinks Trayvon was not armed, and he did nothing really suspicious……so what….You profiled him…..AND if you think he was, do you always walk into the Hornets Nest ???

        Yep, sucks to be Fogen about now.

  11. Stormwatch says:

    When you read some of the text messages from the kids phone, it’s obvious that he and his mom were close and loved one another a lot. Some very loving words being exchanged between the 2 of them. She must be in terrible pain over all of this. The gangsta reference was TM answering a question from a friend, They were having a conversation whereby TM explains that his mom got mad at him for skipping school and thinks he might be happier living with his dad. The friend says jokingly “You’re a hoodlum.” TM answers back “No, I’m a gangsta.” I really don’t think either the hoodlum comment from the friend or the gangsta comment from Trayvon was meant literally. Just two teenage kids discussing getting nabbed by mom for skipping school.

    • JustMe says:

      That’s why this shit is not admissible, Trayvon is DEAD and he’s no longer here to refute or explain his texts. This shit the defense is trying to pull is indefensible!

    • racerrodig says:

      Exactly. If the Moron Man even blurts any of this out Bernie will scribble this on his notepad. “….Fogen MySpace page…..running over Mexicans, others taking his prison hit….getting a little from his sister”

  12. ay2z says:

    Rene Stuzman now reports (doesn’t say the defense says)

    The texts about Trayvon being a “gangsta” came on November 22, 2011, three months before he was killed, the same day he wrote a friend that he had been suspended from school for cutting classes and that his mother had ordered him to move out.

    Does Stuzman have documentation to prove that last statement about being ased to ‘move out’, because moving out means moving out of home. Was Trayvon also moving schools or quitting school because that’s what ‘move out’ means, doens’t mean go visit your father for a few days.

    Not the way Stuz reports it as ‘fact’ she doesn’t support by documentation or attribution to a third party such as defense motion quotes.

    I get the idea that we are seeing ‘the defense’ playing out in the media at this very moment. Essentially this is ‘trial’ because they hope and believe they have hyped the case enough to reach their potential jurors.

    I don’t understand why the defense needs to add photos that are aready in evidence, if they are only planning to use cross to win their case, other than getting them into the media just before trial, again.\

    • boyd says:

      Gangsta, What’s that mean anyway? these old fogies trying to interpret kid talk.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Gangsta is the chrome zig-zag line on the back window of the latest Honda Odyssey.

      • Big Willie says:

        Gangsta is my new $900 Alexander Wang bag! Ma West should do their research on urban language before trying to put Trayvon on blast.

        Oops did I say “blast”?
        Am I talking about blast meaning drugs, or blast meaning exposing someone, or blast meaning you’d better call the bomb squad? Ma West would probably accuse me of terrorism for using the word blast.

      • ay2z says:

        Or, ‘Blast!!’ As a benign alternate for a four-letter expletive.

        One thing is sure, Bernie won’t underestimate the power of pre-jury selection ‘chuming of the waters’.

      • ay2z says:

        Or, having a ‘blast’, as in having good fun with friends. Going horseback riding, or visiting an airplane hangar and sitting ina cockpit at the controls and dreaming of flying, or skateboarding with friends, or going to a party, or going to a drive-in movie on price per carload nite, or going fishing for the day, or baking cookies with a young niece, or watching a big exciting football final on tv with your dad and little brother, or going to a local ball game with family and friends.

    • racerrodig says:

      Rene the racist is making it up as well as the defense. Gee, she forgot the part about Trayvon being an A & B student, and the part about his computer having no porn, no gun nor drug stuff…..but it did have lots of info about colleges he wanted to attend.

  13. JustMe says:

    Rec discovery clearly indicate a “trash the victim” defense.

    • ay2z says:

      We need to find the good photo of Trayvon’s brother wearing his grill, and recall the earlier accusations about the grill equating to something bad, and the US Olympic swimmer who won gold, wearing his grill and explaining it’s a personal fashion just like jewellery.

      That US Olympian is not a thug, at least we don’t think he is… and the grill isn’t proof.

      Bring y our grill to court when you are called, Jahvaris!

      • JustMe says:

        I don’t understand why Trayvon’s text’s were released. It was my understanding this information would be redacted as fogen’s was.

      • ladystclaire says:

        That’s all a grill is, a fashion statement among the young folks today and, I hope the prosecution will have a photo of the gold medal winner wearing his grill. they need to be read the riot act and I mean in good fashion. this defense has sought to sully this kid’s character from day one, with the CTH advising them as well as a supposed to be, man of the cloth Terry Jones and, one other man of the cloth who dog whistled the rest of his racist brethren into action.

      • ay2z says:

        ladystclaire, that would be the one and only Terry Jones who fogen talked to and asked ‘pray with me?’

        Was fogen half RC and half Baptist? Has the RC church relaxed rules so much to allow hybrid versions to take communion?

        That baptist pastor manipulation by fogen in his jailhouse call, astounded me. Fogen has a lot of nerve and confidence in his abilities to talk to anyone, and get his way.

    • Big Willie says:

      I want to see Fogen’s phone records!

      My heart is aching for the Martin family. I poke fun at Fogen and Ma West, but right now I’m literally crying about what these animals are doing to Trayvon and his family.

      • JustMe says:

        This is disgusting with what the defense is doing. Like I said, why are these texts being released and if they are not supposed to be redacted, where the F are the killers?

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Big Willie, I’ve been saying that Fogen’s sealed correspondence should be released. this is one reason why they are so gung ho to put all of these text messages of Trayvon’s out there and, it’s not right. his shit is sealed and for it to be sealed, there must be some pretty bad shit in them.

        The state IMO is going to have to be more assertive when the defense does things such as this in order to taint a possible juty pool. this is awful and, I think the OS should be put on notice by the judge for reporting stuff that is suppose to be redacted in what ever the defense is feeding them.

        This makes me sick to my stomach literally!

  14. ay2z says:

    stuz reports that there was a ‘first punch’ as fact.

    And OS repoprts more defense intentions of showing gold teeth grill and finger gestures.

    Photos are included on the OS page.,0,939183.story

    • Cercando Luce says:

      The photos are non-sequiturs. There are pictures of pot plants and cough syrup in a cup, as well as a gun held in the hand of a brown-skinned person who bites their nails. None of these pictures are of Trayvon Martin; it’s an attempt at subliminal (hardly) suggestion, and it’s published by the Orlando Sentinel for Seminole County residents.

      You can’t say that Rene Stutzman and the OS editors aren’t doing their dirty darnedest for the defendant. If he’s found guilty of Murder 2, it’s in spite of this publication’s gargantuan efforts on his behalf.

      • ay2z says:

        Assuming a lot of power, aren’t they, while playing the roles of judge and jury. That can’t be what your constitution intended with ‘freedom of the press’.

  15. boyd says:

    There is something deeper with Fogen. But I can not prove it.
    He spent an awful lot of time watching young kids. To make so many 911 calls about suspicious kids, I wonder if he watched daily.
    I’ve owned a house since the early 80’s never once bothered to look out the window to watch any kids.
    Secondly his cousin whom accused him of sexually assaulting her when she was young.

    It then got me thinking about Ariel Castro and how he may have used his job to satisfy his hunger for young girls, being the bus driver you have an idea where these kids live. I wonder if George was using this gig to provide an alibi to watch the kiddies.

    I have the feeling there’s something else there. I’ve heard it’s not about sex, it’s about power

    • ay2z says:

      boyd, I hope you are wrong, but there’s the cousin’s account and suggestion that she knew she was not the only one. Opportunity and manipulation.

      We know fogen talked to Singleton in the truthies test room, and seemed to suggest his feelings on inadequacy about being taken seriously, not having the personal presence as Singleton did, to make herself be taken seriously.

      He didn’t know how to talk to people before his anger/anxiety or whatever was causing him to react ‘in the heat of the moment’. Fogen used that phrase to describe to investigators why he might have given out his own home address on the NEN call, and he actually used that phrase on another 911/NEN call as he watched and reported another person previously.

      I hope you are wrong, because that means more victims. But easier to manipulate and overpower a kid than an adult, isn’t it?

  16. ay2z says:

    Next supplemental witness list from the defense, an expert named Zippy makes the point of searching for phone in the wrong pocket at the T. And covers the keys too. (personally, I think fogen may have dropped his key with small flashlight at the T for some reason, like marking a place, or putting them somewhere anticipating a scuffle to avoid loss of keys along the darak path. I still want to know where fogen ultimately found his cell phone and if it was dropped with the lit key ring back at the T, or in which pocket.)

  17. Malisha says:

    And the simple equation is:

    Fogen killed Trayvon Martin.

    He did it with a depraved mind and ill will.

    Only if, intervening between the depravity and ill will and the moment the bullet ripped into Trayvon Martin, a separate, unrelated event occurred that amounted to a life-threatening UNPROVOKED ATTACK upon Fogen by Martin giving Fogen a “reasonable” fear of imminent serious bodily injury or death (all the while realizing that any minute the cops will appear), can there be a successful claim of self-defense on Fogen’s part.

    I think we’re pretty close to a Q.E.D. here.

  18. Malisha says:

    You know, for second degree murder all you need to show is “depraved mind” and “ill will.” These are evidenced by the NEN call to Sean and no drugs or side effects of drugs or after-effects of drug withdrawal or anything else can change that part. Thus, even from the NON-enhanced “everybody hears it” tape of the NEN call:

    “These assholes, they ALways get away…”
    and “Fucking punks”
    and “Shit, he ran”
    and “There’s something wrong with him”
    and “I don’t know what his thing is”

    Fogen has met the requirements.

    ALSO, there must be evidence that he actually DID kill Trayvon Martin and against that, there is no argument.

    Since “God’s Plan” is not an affirmative defense under Florida law, the ONLY defense is “self-defense.” The fact that, with or without evidence of any legal or illegal drugs in the systems of either killer or victim, the self-defense claim is so weak that O’Mara and West gave up the SYG hearing, we really have a simple equation now.

  19. Leisa says:

    I forgot to add to my earlier post re: GZ’s meds. One of the side affects is a feeling of well being. And even if he did not take it on 2/26/12 that has an affect as well. When you miss a dose, the anxiety starts to build up. So either way, he was under the influence of drugs. I understand it probably won’t be introduced but if Omoron wants to say TM was under influence, why not bring up that dipstick was too?

    • ay2z says:

      Xena, sorry for the duplication of effort! I caught your comment and post upthread… duh. But you can never have too much LLMPapa, and Xena vids, especially on the ‘He yelled out for help and then he ssmmm… tried to ssssmother my …’

      Funny how the defendant trips over certain phrases, and does it repeatedly in the interviews on audio and vidoe, as if he starts to say what really happened.

      He has some problem keeping straight whose hands were on his (oops ‘my’) mouth and nose, and who called out for help.

      Audio experts could easily have been asked to clean up the ‘he yelled out for help’ section of this tape to see if clarification could be made between the word ‘I’ and the word ‘he’ and sound ‘ay-eeeeee’.

  20. ay2z says:

    Docket update (nothing yet on the 5dca)

    (how far, if any, out of line is an audio expert’s charges for a day’s plan for deposition? O’Mara wants to pay him average 10% of what the expert is billing total as an hourly rate only, or failing that, O’Mara and client want the state to pay the whole bill. Remember the circular logic talk O’Mara did for gun people? He joked about the state having to pay for all defense if the client goes to trial and is acquitted. He’s putting some of thta on the record for later, when client is acquitted and tries for immunity maybe? Good luck! There’s always the indigency option and the state will pay)



    05/21/2013 AMHR AMENDED NOTICE OF HEARING – DATE: 05/28/2013 – TIME: 0900AM

    What did Prof say ages ago, about priorities of defense money? O’Mara and West had no priority for experts, and they knew audio was important over a year ago when they had money options.

    • Malisha says:

      I know someone who litigates like O’Mara and West, files frivolous and asinine motions one after the other without bothering to show that the relief requested is authorized by law, on and on and on and on. Unfortunately, this bozo was met with stupid, lazy, piss-poor-brain judges who felt like everytime the punk walked into court he had to get SOMETHING because they couldn’t stand to just plain humiliate him and hear him fussing about “ungonsditoooshunnal!” and “prejudiced” and so forth. So they encouraged that idiotic behavior to the point where he perfected it as a harassment tactic. He then ended up suing over 30 people and getting some of his lawyers into trouble (they had to pay “Rule 11” sanctions in some instances for taking frivolous cases). Ultimately, however, he made himself such a pain in the ass that (a) his boss wouldn’t fire him because he didn’t want a lawsuit so he let him work for 3+ years while doing NOTHING until he got another job (public job of course, taxpayer money); (b) state agencies usually do what he demands rather than fight with him; and (c) he alienated his own family to the point where he was disowned.

      But Judge Nelson is not like the wretches who encouraged this bozo, and my guess is that she will not throw dog biscuits to these howlers. She goes by the law and she has no problem referring to its requirements.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      @ay2z ….. yup, i read owen’s customary fees which all seem reasonable for the service he provides. his usual fee ($3,300 ish), plus first class travel, meals, lodging paid in advance. i suspect o’mara wants him to go greyhound, stay at the motel 6 and dine at denney’s cause that’s what his client is comfy with. the truth is, that if own travels to florida, he is unavailable for other paying work — that is why he is entitled to full compensation. i cannot see how o’mara is going to get support with this without declaring his client indigent.

  21. SearchingMind says:

    How would Judge Nelson rule:

    In the thread of may 21st, the Professor already explained that the toxicology report would be inadmissible under section 90.402 and section 90.403 of the Florida Statutes because its probative value, if any at all, is substantially outweighed by the danger of unfair prejudice, confusion of issues, misleading the jury, or needless presentation of cumulative evidence.

    Judge Nelson might also find inspiration in PEOPLE v. SANCHEZ (Court of Appeals of California, Fourth District, Division Three. Filed July 21, 2010).

    There the Appeals Court adjudicated similar issue and made the following findings:

    “The evidence that Madrigal had drugs in his system at the time of his death was also properly excluded. Appellant contends the evidence was relevant to his claim of self-defense, in that it showed Madrigal acted violently and irrationally in attacking him with the knife. But appellant’s self-defense claim was grounded in the notion that Madrigal and Charity conspired to kill him, not that Madrigal attacked him in a drug-induced rage. Therefore, the evidence of Madrigal’s drug use was of dubious relevance from a tactical standpoint.

    In addition, while there was evidence Madrigal had trace amounts of cocaine and marijuana in his system, and those drugs could have had a “physiological effect” on him, there was no evidence they were actually inclined to make him act aggressively or violently during his fatal encounter with appellant. Therefore, even if the evidence of Madrigal’s drug use had some bearing on the case, its exclusion would not be cause for reversal. (See People v. Wright (1985) 39 Cal.3d 576, 585-586 [absent evidence regarding the effects of the defendant’s drug use, exclusion of drug evidence was not prejudicial].)”.

    There is no doubt in my mind that both Judge Nelson and especially the prosecutors has seen O’Mara and West as what they are: dishonest. I also have reason to suspect that West engages in witness coaching (with regard to among others O’Rouke) – while allowing himself a form of plausible deniability.

    • Jun says:

      That’s the legalese way to put it

      But for the peeps like me

      it’s a waste of time and diverts from the real issue at hand and does not excuse murder

    • Rachael says:

      According to the “Treepers,” the fact that there was marijuana in his system isn’t about it making Trayvon aggressive and attacking GZ – it is to show credibility of GZ. It shows that GZ was credible when he said he looks like he’s on drugs. It legitimizes the reason GZ called the police and proves it was not because Trayvon was walking while black.

      • Weed is a gateway drug…….it opens the gate to the refrigerator.

        With fogen?…..all they have to do is ask him what he was prescribed….without a doubt there are pharmacy and insurance records of prescription drugs purchased….

        I smoke herb daily (prescribed)…..and function fine…..

        ’bout 2 years ago I tried that Chantix to quit smoking cigarettes…….as stated in the possible side effects………I was a walking ATTITUDE..even with the mate… I stopped taking it. And that’s a prescription drug….

        Just ask fogen what meds he was need for tox screens on him……then read off possible side effects……….

        • Without an admission from GZ that he ingested those Rx drugs, how much, and the time he ingested them, the evidence probably would be irrelevant and inadmissible under rules 402 and 403.

          BDLR could ask him on cross to see if he could get that admission, but I doubt GZ would give him the answer he wants.

          I don’t believe BDLR needs to venture down that road to get a conviction, given GZ’s conduct and the forensic evidence.

          • OK Prof…..I’ll give you that one…(I’m not a lawyer)……Can BDLR question this…..Was fogen taking his meds as prescribed?….if yes then what effect did they have on him?

            If he WASN’T taking them as prescribed…..Then what could the possible effects of that be?….And again it would show fogen doing things “his way”

            BTW….Mornin’ from a foggy, damp mountain…..First cup o joe on the way 🙂

          • Good morning.

            BDLR could ask him if he took his medication that day, but what happens if he says, “No.”

          • racerrodig says:

            What do you make of the latest that Fogen sent e-mails several weeks before the murder to be on the look out for black males, late teens suspected of burglaries??

            I think they’re making it all up as they’d have blasted it all over before this. I chalk it up to the same line as “I handed out flyers at the black Churches”

            Further, it shows me he was perpetually on the hunt.

      • Jun says:

        LMAO so by lying, it makes Fogen credible?


        It’s long been concluded that the THC level was so low, Trayvon could of either smoked it a few weeks ago or he simply inhaled second hand smoke, which means, Trayvon was not high that night

        so, another “got off the phone” to another low blow

      • Rachael says:

        Oh MMP, you are preaching to the choir here. I am very well aware not only of the side effects of the medications GZ was on, but I posted above about how they are also on the list of drugs of abuse. And the side effects of them ARE aggression – among other things. I’m just saying that the outhouse claims that the finding of marijuana in Trayvon wasn’t to show that he was aggressive, it was to show that GZ was correct in saying it looked like he was on drugs.

        However, that STILL has nothing to do with anything. Why would you get out of your car if someone looked like they were on drugs, had their hands in their waistband and were checking you out? That would be crazy.

        Whatever “they” see on the video, I do not see but regardless, it has NOTHING to do with GZ shooting Trayvon.

        Even bringing it up, as you point out only brings up the fact that GZ was a walking pharmacy himself and between that and having a gun and getting out of his car when someone looked suspicious (to him) was an accident waiting to happen.

      • Rachael says:

        Jun – this just shows how desperate they are to try to find some credibility for GZ because he has none – and now he has even less.

        In some ways it is unfortunate that it will not be allowed to be entered, because those results are meaningless and will be torn to shreds and make the defense look even more stupid than they do now – IF that is even possible.

      • I do not believe the results of the toxicology screen are admissible for any purpose because the concentration of THC and its metabolite were too low to affect behavior.

      • Rachael says:

        Professor, you ask what if he says no. that could be problrmatic for him because that would not be taking his medication as directed which is more likely to cause side effects tha if he was.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          rachael says

          Professor, you ask what if he says no. that could be problrmatic for him because that would not be taking his medication as directed which is more likely to cause side effects tha if he was.

          i would think that even if gz did not take the stand that his PA would in order for the defense to enter his medical reports. this would give BDLR an excellent opportunity to question the PA about his med load, if meds were regularly filled and/or abused, what potential side effects are of each on their own and combined, and what the effects of missed doses would be. knowing that particular list of meds, none of the effects would add up to ‘good’.

          i know that i just discontinued a med for fibromyalgia which is an SNRI anti-depressant which has been proven to be helpful to some, i do not know that it was for me. i do know the effects of missing a dose were so hideous that discontinuing was the best option and i did so with the blessings of my doc.

      • ay2z says:

        I think Serino got something out of him about his scripts he takes. And Irwin asked at the start of the truthies interview, none of which he was concerned about for the test. And then there was the script talk between fogen and Shellie during jailhouse calls mostly the ever present tummy upset talk

        Seemed like fogen wanted people to know he needs stuff. Poor guy.

      • ay2z says:

        Rachel, excellent point about legitimizing and adding crediblity to fogen, he needs it. He did say on NG or one of the major networks, via team Taaffe/Osterman, that he wanted people to find truth in the 911 call.

        But we have Serino asking him about that ‘drugs’ statement, ‘why’ fogen thought he looked like on drugs ‘or sumpthin’, and answer was ‘I don’t know’.

        That ‘on drugs’ statement could even be a repeat of what someone else reported and fogen repeated to Sean at NEN. It was a little profiling, but he didn’t have any direct proof or reason to suggest ‘on drugs’ except profiling a young person walking, or running, or walking and running, or skipping and running, or skipping, running and walking, or skipping swaying, running and walking, and standing and swaying.

    • SearchingMind says:


      The “Treepers” always love to bury their head in the sand and seek refuge and comfort in their quite erratic phantasies. Their problem with regard to “he looks like he is on drugs” is:

      a. The trace amount of MJ found in Trayvon’s system – from the scientific point of view – would not make the motoric of his body parts (e.g. arms-, legs, head etc., movement) any different from that of any individual who is a vegetarian (like myself), strict non-alcoholic, and has never smoked weed ever in his life. This makes all other toxicology report based argument moot and irrelevant.

      b. The second problem is that the actions GZ described (i.e. walking around leisurely; looking at all the houses; etc.) are not those of someone on drugs.

      • Rachael says:

        You do understand that I am fully aware of that and totally agree with a., right? and as far as b. goes, even if if those were, it has nothing to do with it.

        Please – do not attack the messenger.

      • SearchingMind says:

        Oops, Rach. I was standing with you and countering the “Treepers”. I thought that was evident.

      • Rachael says:

        No prob, I was just making sure.

    • Malisha says:

      Under Florida law:

      Fogen had no right to kill someone for walking along even if he was totally high on marijuana and puffs of oh-wow were coming out of his ears;

      Fogen had no reason to find Trayvon suspicious even if he couldn’t walk straight — then his NEN call should have said, “Um, there’s a guy here who looks either hurt or on drugs or somepin — you better send an ambulance; I’ll stay in my car because I don’t know what his thing is.”

      Fogen had no credibility at all, NOT because he said “he looks like he’s on drug or somepin” when it turned out that Trayvon was NOT on drugs or ennytim, but because THIS part is not credible: “I feel like he saw my gun…” and “I pulled out my gun, aimed it, and fired one shot [smirk, shrug]…” and “He said ‘you got a fuckin’ problem homie?’ and I said, ‘no, I don’t have a problem,’ and he said, ‘you got a problem now’ etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. ad nauseam,

      but it was NOT because Trayvon DID or DID NOT sway, smoke up, or have trace ANYTHING in his blood.

      Think of it: then murder would be free except for the murder of a person who had never done ANYTHING in his or her life that could be criticized by ANYONE WHO HATED THEM.

      Excuse me while I barf out my goddamned guts.

      • SearchingMind says:

        Well said, Malisha. I couldn’t put it any better. I anxiously await the day Fogen will take the stand to explain himself and (aka O’Mara) “get real immunity from the jury” . Would he dare do that? I am not seriously thinking that he would.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          searching mind says

          Would he dare do that? I am not seriously thinking that he would.

          i don’t see that happening either – o’mara is like a cat in a room full of rocking chairs when the defendant must open his mouth in court. you’re the lawyer – but i don’t see how they can win if gz does not testify and i sure don’t see them winning if he does.

          to malisha above … i was trying to find a clip of a presser that angela corey had at one point early on when she said she did not care if victims were the worst of drug users, if they were homicide victims, then her office would prosecute the killer. she struck me as sincere and i don’t think this ‘trace element’ BS is even a stumbling block for her office. (wish i could find the video, but will keep looking.)

      • racerrodig says:

        Be prepared for this, put your hand over your mouth or get a bed pan. O’ Mara is now claiming Fogen sent e-mails to everyone weeks before the murder telling everyone to be on the lookout for black males, late teens suspected of burglaries. I tell you no lie.

        HLH tonight The Moron Man will be on as will Ben Crump. He’s just stated “I’ve always been on the hunt”

        1st, I believe it never happened as Taaffe, among others would have stated it long ago……lying bastards.

  22. ay2z says:

    The button photo is only shown from the front. Appears undamaged from this photo.

  23. ay2z says:

    Has anyone noticed that the button Trayvon wore that night, is now in the latest photo set? It is a photo of his cousin who died.

    The button is in this photo stream, see photo 7 and 9.

  24. ay2z says:

    I like this defense motion! It shows the defense’s money problems once again, this time they want the state to pay for the defense’s deposition of the state audio expert, Tom Owen.

    Now, they argue, that this expert is in a ‘highly contested area of evidence’ and they want the expert to charge 250 to 400 per hour, or they want the state to pay what the expert charges normally for this service.

    And the defense estimates the depo will take 2 hours. Really?? Two hours for an expert witness when BDLR said the depo of Sybrina Fulton took al day, 7 hours or so, being asked a wide range of questions, from how much money she made, how much she makes, etc, and we know also from Bernie, that Witness 8 was deposed one day, and agreed to come back for another day.

    Has the defense tipped it’s hand to let us know they can’t do much questioning of the audio expert, Tom Owen?

    This is a backdoor way to get the state to cover some of the defense costs without declaring indingency. Will Judge Nelson go for it? Or is this getting something on the record for later use, some way, some how?

    Click to access 052113-reasonable-fee-pdf.pdf

    • Soulcatcher says:

      Well boys, you know the old saying, “Ass, Cash, or Grass, nobody rides for free.”

    • SearchingMind says:

      “This is a backdoor way to get the state to cover some of the defense costs without declaring indingency. Will Judge Nelson go for it?”

      No, Judge Nelson will not go for it. The rules are very clear as to when the court may intervene (Florida Statutes 92.231(3)).

      Legalities aside, how can Judge Nelson rule on the Motion in defense’s favor without knowing how much money the defense has. NO papers were filed to show whether or not the defense has 1million- or 0.00 USD in its account.

  25. ay2z says:

    Anyone notice that the defense made public, it’s client’s gun permit today?

    You think they read here for some ideas?? 😉

  26. Donna Flores says:

    I listened to the Statement # 2 SPD again and Serino mentions something about Tv’s and someone spitting into a car, it has to do with George Zimmerman and George just laughs it off and Serino says Ya I know all about you. Does anyone know what this is about?

    • Rachael says:

      It is GZ’s past. This has the spitting part but I thought it also had the part about him following someone who stole a tv until police got there.

      • Rachael says:

        George Zimmerman is notorious for following people, in 2003 he followed a 24-year-old Lake Mary resident who he claimed he seen shoplift a TV. He followed the man in his vehicle until police officials arrived.

      • ay2z says:

        Donna, thanks for asking, I’d wondered about that too.

        Rachael, thanks for the links. First time I’d heard about this:

        A young African American student, 17, who also resides at the Retreat at Twin Lakes, said there are not a lot of African Americans in his community. Usually he and his friend would wait and sit up the street until Zimmerman finished doing his “rounds” because they felt uncomfortable.

        When they greeted Mr. Zimmerman there greets always went unanswered, according to the teen boys. The self-appointed neighborhood watch captain even confronted one of the boys stating they stole a bike, later they found out the bike was never stolen and an apology was never given.

        • Xena says:


          When they greeted Mr. Zimmerman there greets always went unanswered, according to the teen boys.

          It’s a bully technique. GZ wanted them to fear him. He intentionally conveyed that he was there to “patrol” to keep the neighborhood safe, but not for them. They were different and didn’t belong>/em> If he could get them to fear him, and wrongfully accused them, it might encourage their parents to move — which is what Taaffe wanted.

        • racerrodig says:

          In a story from last year and confirmed by a police statement / report, Fogen claimed it was his bike at first and the boys dad showed the receipt which had the serial number on it.

          • Shari says:

            No wonder the HOA settled with the victims family. Fogen was a ticking time bomb. It’s obvious he had friends in high places because no way he should have been allowed to follow and harass people. I have always said to myself that NW is a good organization, simply about neighbors helping neighbors. WATCHING and calling the police, and staying in doors to wait for help. What Fogen did is he found a way to legitimize his stalking and harassment of black residents. He was instrumental in the forming of the group and he liked the authority and power he felt his position gave him. He spoke to the police as if he was a colleague.

            He embodies the stereotype of the southern racist. He was a loser with no money, didn’t own his place at the gated community, and decided to direct that frustration into hating and scapegoating black OWNERS.

            Fogen is frightening but even more so is Osterman and Lee. These are men in law enforcement. They are supposed to be there to protect and serve ALL people, including black boys and girls. I can’t remember the names but several men in law enforcement have been caught praising Fogen even using Trayvon’s face as a target in shooting practice. I will never forget Lee saying that if Trayvon could re do things he would change his behavior. That showed his bias and support of Fogen. Any rational person would say Fogen was the only one in the wrong. Those residents should have done more. How can Fogen say he knows everyone, and only the people HE know are allowed to walk the grounds. What if an OWNER has a guest?

            People say that “the blacks” should get over Jim Crow and Black codes but we are not that far removed from them. My father is old enough to have experienced legal discrimination.

          • racerrodig says:

            Well said. I’m a 57 year old white male and I actually have many friends of all colors, races, religions. They all know who & what I am and stand for. I can’t put into words how I feel about the unbridled racism in this country and I tangle verbally often enough with big mouth racists on that.

            My 14 year old son is amazed at how easily I strike up a conversation with anyone, store, gas station, standing in line, it matters not, we’re all on the same planet and there is no reason not to get along.

            Our neighbors are black and we get along with them great. One day last year he wandered into my shop to see me pecking away about this and asked about it. He knew very little about this and when I showed him some of this, he was blown away that I had this strong a stance. He sort of just assumed this was divided along black & white lines……..he couldn’t apologize enough…….No biggie dude……no biggie. I looked at it as a compliment to be honest.

          • Shari says:

            This is what really hit me about this case. The amount of donations Fogen received. The political blogs who I had spent time conversing with, how much they jumped to defend him and label this child a thug. And it really crossed political lines. Last year I wondered to myself, how many of my fellow church members donated to Fogen? How many of the women in my local moms group? It’s a scary thought, the thought that your friendly neighbor would support a man hunting down and killing your child.

          • racerrodig says:

            Let me say this about the donations. They are not getting anywhere near what they claim. Initially the 1st 200K was 100K donated by 3 entities in 25K blocks so remove 100K.

            That left 100K and O’ Mara stated the average donation was $20.00 and most were repeat donators. That makes a maximum of 5,000 donators. Math… exact science !!

            They are 40K in the hole at this point. I have my sources…

      • SearchingMind says:

        @ Xena

        It is also a segregationist mentality. The physical barriers of segregations have been torn down years ago. But the mental aspect is still there in some people. GZ has many serious issues of which racism is a prominent part. I believe he ignored the boys because they are African American (“fucking coons” in GZ’s mind) whom he would rather see living in their own separate communities. I am not sure GZ believes he can intimidate them because GZ is an opportunistic coward. He (GZ) would never confront a grown African American male. And if Trayvon had not ran, GZ would have remained in his car (GZ was not able to size-up Trayvon while in his car). But the very moment “he ran” GZ snifed weakness in the air and went after him.

      • boyd says:

        Maybe we are looking at it wrong, maybe George likes the power. Power to sexually assault, power over teenagers,
        He probably spent a lot of time watching the kiddies on those NEN calls, then got off watching the police cruise around.

    • Nef05 says:

      The first is a road rage incident documented by police, where a guy spit some gum out of his car window and in fogenworld (where every action is all about him) he decided the guy spit AT HIM and he chased him, until the guy flagged down an cop and told him he thought fogen was going to assault him.

      The second was a guy who was seen ripping off something at a store (might have been a TV, might have simply been an item from an “electronics store” description I don’t remember exactly) and fogen chased him and held him until police arrived.

      These are the incidents Serino is talking about when he says fogen has a “history” of getting involved in things (impression: getting involved in things that are none of his business and are better handled by police).

      It’s been a while since we’ve discussed these, but I wonder if they are admissible by the prosecution as evidence of fogen showing a pattern of behavior where he oversteps civilian boundaries and goes directly into LEO-type behavior, without any authority to do so.

  27. kllypyn says:

    He out and out lied Trayvon was with his father when he arrived in sanford. there is no it.And he had not smoked weed hours before he was killed. He must getting his lies form the conservative liars house. and even if he had it is not relevant TRAYVON IS NOT ON TRIAL. He is the victim.

  28. Leisa says:

    I need to look up the interviews she gave last night. Bizarre behavior.

  29. Arias update:

    The jury ended the day still deadlocked. The judge sent them home.

    They will resume deliberations tomorrow morning.

  30. Xena says:

    Part 2 of the series of George Zimmerman’s interview with Sean Hannity and inconsistencies with his statements to police.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Yes, that Hannity interview (as BDLR put it) was a “god send” to the state.

      Great video, Xena.

      • Xena says:

        @yahtc. At trial, Bernie is going to make the defense team look like first semester law students.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I think your title “God-Send for the State” v. “Zimmerman’s God’s plan” was a great title, Xena.

        I think, if there was any “God’s Plan”, it was GIVING Trayvon the chance to leave his RECORDED testimony in the form of his desperate cry for help on W11’s 911 call.

        • Xena says:

          @yahtc. You know, I ponder GZ’s “God’s plan” often. First, I was rather happy he said it because in doing so, he made God a party to his case, and God isn’t going to be blamed for GZ’s thoughts and actions. Second, there are times when a light must shine to reveal the darkness. Trayvon was the light and his death continues to shine revealing darkness, and shall consume.

          God operates in three’s, and I could write a book on how I see that working now, including June being the third month on the astrological calendar. 🙂

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Every time I think of GZ bring up the words “God’s plan”, I am very upset.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I just reread what I wrote two comments above and I realized I wrote too quickly…..I was basically saying that gz was sick to say that his deed was “God’s plan”, and that W11’s recorded call with Trayvon’s screams for help will see to it that justice will be served because that call and the other evidence have served to prove that GZ’s whole account is a lie.

    • ay2z says:

      “…. when I felt him brushing”


      I never caught that wording before but it’s inconsistent with he felt his hand going down his side for the gun. Brushing could mean anything, an excuse to bring out the gun, saying the brushing caused him to remember he had it.

      Sounds like an excuse, the changes of version to ‘brushing’ for a lie detector, little less definite description, less of a ‘lie’. I sure believe that ‘brushing’ was possible, probably several times, somewhere, somehow, some part of Trayvon brushed against fogen in his struggle for life.

      • Xena says:

        @ay2z. GZ is the type of person who, had the technician said “tickling,” he would have agreed with that. Liars who find it difficult to describe their lies and remember them, will adopt whatever others say. That way, if they are caught in the lie, they can say that so-and-so said it and not them.

        This is what GZ showed us about the “brushing”…

      • ay2z says:

        Thanks, Xena, will have a re-listen. And thanks so much for the part 2, was looking forward to that since your pt 1!

        Love it when you put a Bernie clip into the mix with the numbnutz own self-incriminating statements.

        All of Youtube seems to have gone dark for the night now. Strange. Hope no more storms happening.

        • Xena says:

          @ay2z. No. Thank you. Have part 3 (which was suppose to originally be part 2) awaiting peer review and should have that up this week. By the weekend, I should have Parts 1-3 on my blog for everyone’s convenience.

          Here’s LLMPapa’s most recent countdown.

      • Rachael says:

        I also don’t understand, well I mean look how far back he is reaching. How could he get back there if he was lying on his back?

    • ay2z says:

      Hannity: ‘Why did you need to carry a gun?”

      Hey Hannity, why did you leave the answer on the editing room floor, because sure would have been interesting to hear the answer.

      Slick double-triple question technique there, Hannity. Fool the people into thinking the question had an answer in your show?

      (Oh yeah, you had to edit away any response to your question of ‘why carry’ because the defendant was going to use ‘forgot’ he had it on him until the brushing and reaching thing. Damned clean gun I’d say, worn at all times, even forgot it was on in the shower, and we know how fogen LOVES his showers, has one regularly. Must have a velcro patch stuck to the skin on his hip).

  31. This from the published study:

    “The absence of gross cognitive impairment or side effects in this study supports safety of doses up to 120mg/day”

    is pure gold. So. Are they planning to put her on the stand to argue that, after publishing this, in the medical literature, she is going to argue that somehow, in the special case of the deceased Trayvon Martin, her own study findings do not apply?.

    What ‘if this, then maybe that’ speculation are they planning for this non-issue that has nothing to do with the elephant in the room?

    Sorry, Mr. West. You’re busted.

    And Mr. Z here’s a memo: When you say “He…looks like he’s on drugs or something…” You actually sound high yourself. You seriously do.

  32. Leisa says:

    Perhaps shellie got out of the truck bringing the key and using the little flashlight to see, sees the struggle or maybe is there when shot goes off. Drops the key and runs. Maybe? I don’t think GZ would go to do shopping without her if in fact he was going there at all.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:


      As far as gz going shopping–

      Here is LLMPapa’s video about GZ starting to say “My wife” and then stopping and just saying “I was….”

    • PYorck says:

      That’s a possibility. It would also explain why he was not yet sure what happened to his truck. So many open questions!

    • Xena says:

      @Leisa. When we look at the pictures taken by Jon, the one of GZ’s head has better lighting. My guess is that Jon used the small flashlight when taking that picture, the cop walked up within 30 seconds of the picture being taken, and Jon dropped the key chain flashlight on the ground where he was standing; not wanting it to be mistaken for a weapon.

      GZ never mentions the key chain flashlight, like he never mentions Jon taking that picture.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Xena, Jon already had his own flashlight that he could have used to take the picture.

        • Xena says:


          Xena, Jon already had his own flashlight that he could have used to take the picture.

          True, but more difficult to hold along with the phone and too bright for an up close picture. Apparently, he used his larger flashlight to photograph Trayvon’s body and GZ’s tactical flashlight — neither of which came out too well.

      • gbrbsb says:

        And IMO very important he I don’t recall he mentioned he was on the phone at the time Jon took the picture.

      • Leisa says:

        He fails to mention many things that night. That a witness was there immediately after the shot was fired, that he took pictures, that Osterman was at the scene. I have wondered why John could not be charged for not giving aid it an injured person. The fact that he chose to photograph TM instead of trying to help makes me wonder what kind of a man he is.

      • ladystclaire says:

        Why was he taking a picture of Trayvon’s body in the first place? I believe that there are quite a few people involved in this than we think. GZ is a real BASTARD and, I hope I’m forgiven for spelling that word out here but, I can’t help how I feel towards this thing.

    • ladystclaire says:

      He was on NW at the time and, the going to Target grocery shopping is a lie made up by SP with Bill Lee’s blessings. this is what they told the people at the HOA emergency meeting, the meeting which resulted in one of the tenants being put out of the meeting, just because he told about Fogen following him and even coming to his home.

      He only did this to AA tenants from what I understand. just like he accused a 16 year old of stealing a bicycle. this thing is nothing but a lying murdering POS who had the SPD protecting his fat ass, after committing a murder. they should all lose their jobs and, those that were more active in the cover up, should go to prison with Fogen.

  33. parrot says:

    Off Topic: Judy Clarke

    In case you have not seen this article published almost a month ago …
    I just came upon it.

  34. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    I just finished listening again to Singleton’s Feb.26, 2012 interview with gz–recording #2 where GZ is marking the map.

    In this tape, GZ says he is NOT SURE if his car was still running when he was over on RVC looking for an address.

    Here is the exchange I just transcribe which begins a bit past the halfway point of this recording #2:

    Zimmerman: I got out of my vehicle to look at this house’s address and see if there was a sign there.
    Singleton: Okay.
    Zimmerman: There wasn’t.
    Singleton: Okay.
    Zimmerman: So, I walked through the dogwalk to see if there was a sign here or an address that I could make out easier.
    Singleton: Okay. And, then what happens?
    Zimmerman: The dispatcher asked me if I’m out of my car, and I said, “Yes.” And, they said, “Do you know what direction he went in?” and I said, “No.” And they said, “Are you following him?” and I said, “I don’t know. I don’t know where he went.”
    Singleton: Okay. But you continue straight on sidewalk
    Zimmerman: Yes, ma’am.
    Singleton: going to this side.
    Zimmerman: Yes, ma’am, all the way through.
    Singleton: And then what happens when you get here? You decide, you still don’t know where you are at?
    Zimmerman: I still didn’t know where I was at, but I was able to give the dispatcher a description from the clubhouse. I said they come straight in past the clubhouse and my car is right here.
    Singleton: Okay. Is your car running or you’ve shut it off?
    Zimmerman: Shut off
    Singleton: Okay. So you just parked here, you follow him
    Zimmerman(talking at the same time as Singleton): I think it’s shut off.
    Singleton: Doesn’t matter so much. Um. So you walk here…..

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Why did GZ say, “I THINK it’s shut off.”??

      His keychain was found at the crime scene with its flashlight on.

      • PYorck says:

        That keychain is really weird. Your car key chained to your only lit flashlight, in the dark, – that is something that you do not throw away lightly and if you lose it you notice and pick it up. Of course that would change if were in a fight or seriously distracted, but GZ specifically stated that he didn’t have it in his hands when he encountered Trayvon. He doesn’t seem to want to talk about how that happened.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Yes, PYorck.

        GZ does not talk about his keychain. Very odd.

        And, how could he say that he might not have shut off his car?
        If he did have his keychain with him, would that not automatically mean that his car was shut off and not running?

      • Leisa says:

        He says in his nen call that his keys are in his truck I believe.

      • Bill Taylor says:

        is it possible his head scratches came from those keys? somebody saw him walking away from the body north and others saw him doing something to his head, injure himself then throw them further north?

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:


        I remember vaguely that some listeners to the nen tape said that they did hear gz saying (as if to someone) “The keys are in the truck.”

        I myself cannot hear that. I have trouble hearing all the quiet things on various tapes.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      I see that WillisNewton has downloaded the map that gz was marking in the Singleton audio,part 2 that I linked above.

      Here is the link to the map:


      • Donna Flores says:

        I notice that he moved the placement of the truck twice. The first one seems more reasonable because it’s closer to the mailboxes and right to the left when you come in. He says that over 3 times in the interview. I also noticed he marked where he was punched and knocked down at the start of the T by the Tree.

  35. Leisa says:

    A man who has panic attacks following a young man in the dark, ends up getting clocked. Did he have a panic attack that led to his pulling his gun? This is not self defense IMO.

  36. Pork Que says:

    GZs lawyers are trying to PRETEND that GZ called NEN because GZ thought TM looked like he was walking around high on pot (so they can pretend GZ did not profile TM)

    That is completely NOT TRUE

    2/26 GZ told detectives he called NEN on TM because TM looked like the “people” who were breaking into homes.

    GZ: “This gentleman in particular? Um, I’d never seen him in the neighborhood. I know all the residents. Um, it was raining out, and he was leisurely walking, taking his time, looking at all the houses.”

    On the NEN call,
    GZ “We’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there’s a real suspicious guy.”

    GZ: “These a..holes. They always get away.”

    GZ: “Fking Goons”

    Detective Serino said the “Goons” is a gang that GZ thought were responsible for breaking into homes.

    GZ’s lawyers want everyone to forget that GZ told detectives that he ONLY called NEN because TM looked like he was going to break into a home.

    • Rachael says:

      Whoah!! Now hold up there a minute. He never said TM looked like he was going to break into a home. That seems to be the idea he wishes to convey and that was apparently his thinking based on his faulty reasoning, but he never said that.

  37. cielo62 says:

    Damn I’m late to the party!

  38. colin black says:

    The only DOPE Relevent to the night TRAYVON was profiled both raceialy an criminaly harrased cerb crawled chased/hunted.
    Illegaly detained questioned assaulted tortured verbaly an phycologicly an physicaly /mocked an striped of his dignaty an life is the DOPE who perpertrated all that malice onto an totall stranger child walking home talking to his sweet hearts.

    An foggagge came along an deprived him of not only his sweet heart,
    But of his own heart he shreeded it into hamburger meat.

    And broke not only Trayvons Familys HEARTS .

    But Millions of careing genuine peoples hearts around the planet.

  39. Leisa says:

    GZ is taking Temazepam 30mg. 3times daily. it is used to treat insomnia (short term) or panic disorders. He has to be OCD from the way he spoke about showering. He referred to having a panic attack in jail before he got his meds.
    Side effects, being half asleep all the time which is why he can’t stay awake in the courtroom.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Sometimes I feel a lot of compassion for this unfortunate man. Too bad he didn’t want to be an artist or sumpin’. :/ Or a school crosswalk guard. Just sayin’.

      • racerrodig says:

        “Or a school crosswalk guard. Just sayin’.”

        I hear ya, but I’d say there would be a whole lot of black male’s, late teens being run over in his “jurisdiction”

    • Where did you get that dosage info from for the Temazepam?. Most physicians would never order more than 30mg. of Temazpem daily. It’s primarily used for sleep, not anxiety. There are other far more useful drugs for anxiety than Temazepam. Even with Adderall, that’s a huge dosage.

  40. colin black says:

    When your clients guilty an you have unscruplious defence team.

    You attack the victim as recent as Jodi airryasrse we witnessed that.
    Since time immiorial Women VICTIMS of RAPE are attacked .

    Isnt is so Ms X you had consecuall sex with three men you met aot socialiseing ?

    A Yes over a five yes.

    Objesgtion witness is not answering the question.

    Q Isnt it true you had sex with three men the first evening you met them.

    A Yes but

    Objection .

    Answer yes or no

    An on an on they go badgering the witnesss trying to imply she is a whore ect.

    An even if she did have a high libido She is entitled to say no if she doesnt want sex.

    If a bloke shags a differnt womane every night he is a stud.
    A woman is is a slut??? go figure.

  41. colin black says:

    Trayvon swaying at the 7 11 counter..

    Whilst his client by his own addmission was shimmieing headbanging twisting rocking rollin.

  42. kllypyn says:

    MY response to a scumbag on the Trayvon warriors blog. You are trying to be an a%% with the wrong person. Yes we are smart. Smart enough to know lies when we hear them. Smart enough to know Trayvon never touched him. Smart enough to know Trayvon was restrained by his shirts when he was murdered. Smart enough to know his injuries are not consistent with his claims. Smart enough to know Trayvon was not physically capable of doing what he claims he was not strong enough.

    Smart enough to know his head was never repeatedly slammed into the sidewalk he would have never been in any condition to fire a gun. Smart enough to know he was never screaming for help. Smart enough to know a man with a gun will not scream for help or beg for his life. Smart enough to know his nose was never broken.Smart enough to know
    Trayvon was no match for him and couldn’t beat him up if he tried.

    Smart enough tro know trayvon never punched him in the face. Smart enough to know he has no defensive wounds therefore he was not getting beat up. Smart enough to know if Trayvon had hit him he as a former bouncer should been able to make short work of trayvon without killing him.Smart enough to know when you follow then pursue someone especially a minor you are the aggressor

    Smart enough to know he illegally tried to detain trayvon against his will which he had no right to do.Smart enough to know he got angry when Trayvon resisted him and lost it and killed him while he begged for his life. Smart enough to know he cant claim self defense when he followed and pursued,and also because Trayvon was unarmed and was not a threat to him. Smart enough to know you are an a%%,take your crap.somewhere else.

  43. If Trayvon was high and in a 7/11 with $22, it would be like Disneyworld. 3bags of potato chips, a box of cookies, a slushy, 2 candy bars and some peanuts and gum to hide the weed smell on your breath.

    • racerrodig says:

      That pretty much tells it.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      leroy hudson says

      If Trayvon was high and in a 7/11 with $22, it would be like Disneyworld. 3bags of potato chips, a box of cookies, a slushy, 2 candy bars and some peanuts and gum to hide the weed smell on your breath.

      and a bottle of visine to ‘get the red out’ before his dad got home.

  44. Well it didn’t work so here is the link. There is two more new words that is found on the 911 call, tell me is it possible. I just hope the Audio experts see this.

    [please double check the link — it’s not working]

  45. I never embedded a video here before. Let’s see if it works.

  46. OMGosh, they are getting so ridiculous as each day comes nearer to the trial. The defense strategy is that they don’t have a strategy so they are going and have seen postings to pull Trayvon Martin through the mud. BUT they forget Trayvon Martin is no longer amongst us he is in heaven. How can you try a person who is Dead already? The supporters of GZ have no scruples.

  47. Malisha says:

    This just in: the skinny on the identity of the “it” who knew about Trayvon Martin and the marijuana:

    1. It is real suspicious;
    2. It lied about its gender;
    3. It must be on drugs or somepin;
    4. It has a problem, homie;
    5. It ALWAYS gets away;
    6. I don’t know what its thing is.

    • Jun says:

      Imma take a wild accurate guess and say “it” is “Fogen”

      Right on cue should be Rene Stutzman’s article on OS, where she embeds the “Reefer Madness” video off of youtube onto the OS and Jeff Weiner will still be a weiner

    • Big Willie says:

      Here’s the perfect example how West cross examing “It” will go.

  48. Bill Taylor says:

    the most extensive research into marijuana that i knowof was done by Dr. Alan Grinespoon starting in the late 60’s he was going to prove once and for all the “harm” of marijuana use, and Nixon was going to use his work to pass a new marijuana law…after the research Grinespoon REVERSED his position on the issue saying marijuana is the most benign substance used by humans, with no possible toxic dose and should be LEGAL.

    the present law the 1972 controlled substances act placed marijuana in the highest category and is nothing but LIES….saying no know medicinal uses(blatantly false), saying a very high potential for abuse(another blatant lie)……the founders of this nation grew and used marijuana, and one of the independent studies i did for my college degree was on the drug laws in the USA, so i also did the research in the 70’s for myself…….also wrote another study on gambling in the USA……..i can balance the budget TODAY, make drugs and gambling legal and TAX them all and you could end all other taxes, and then indeed taxation would be VOLUNTARY dont want to pay taxes? then dont use drugs or gamble!

  49. ladystclaire says:

    HLN is getting ready to talk about this very issue.

    • Malisha says:

      What issue: Itchin a$$holes? Count me outta that one.

    • Jun says:

      Dr. Drew “The levels were very very low of THC, so I will conclude that Attorney West is lying and here is a toxicology expert from California today, Dr. Lee”

      Nancy Grace “You see when Zimmerman stalked and chased down Trayvon, Zimmerman was armed with a gun. When Zimmerman caught up to Trayvon, Trayvon begged for his life as he was being attacked by Zimmerman, until Zimmerman decided to shoot Trayvon in the heart, which caused lots of bleeding. Then Zimmerman, over 200 pounds, sat on Trayvon’s back and pinned the victim facedown until he stopped struggling. Trayvon was literally being choked and bleeding to death from Zimmerman’s attack and knew he was dying.”

      Vinnie Politan “Let’s look at the evidence my TV jury, and you will see, that Zimmerman is guilty. That the marijuana levels in Trayvon’s system is not relevant and the defense can not prove Trayvon was violent because of marijuana, allegedly used. In fact it is a possibility that Trayvon could have simply inhaled second hand smoke.”

      • racerrodig says:

        I really liked Nancy back a few years ago then she got a little over the top. When she pulled the plug on Oliver and Taaffe, I fell in love all over again.

        She’s going to rip this to shreds… will Vinnie, in his own inimitable way.

        So “Get back Jack” them thar racists, not to mention Robbie the Racist are in for a long hot summer.

        Just think what Papi Z will say……and he’s unhappy with the FL Judicial system now ????? A hahahahahahahahahaha

        They ain’t seen nothing yet !!!!!

        • Don’t leave us out of the picture because I plan on leading the way.

          • racerrodig says:

            Oh I’m going no place and I’ll be right behind ya, I haven’t had a real vacation since Oct 97 and I plan on closing the shop the week this heats up after jury selection. I’m turning on the AC in the shop and my son & I plan on getting cleaned up and ship shape. I’ll have HLN playing through the stereo and Leatherman on the flat screen. I ain’t missin’ a thing.

        • Shari says:

          How can you watch Nancy Grace? The woman is very difficult to watch. She repeats questions, re states her guests answers, her whole schtick is unwatchable for me. Last year I would only watch for Trayvon news when Jane would sub. And I did find her to be somewhat leaning in the Fogen camp, maybe she was unsure. When she takes a position she makes it known. Remember her cringe worthy “Tot mom.” I didn’t see her going that far,not that she has to.

          • racerrodig says:

            She is over the top, that’s for certain, but she hates those who are obvious criminals and she’ll rip this apart. She already has in fact.

      • Rachael says:

        She actually almost broke down once when talking about GZ/Travon because she has a son and it really got to her.

      • Jun says:

        I’d love to watch Nancy Grace cross examine Fogen, instead of softball Hannity

        Nancy would have Fogen shivering in his pants

      • Big Willie says:

        I’d like to see Judge Judy cross examine Foggen.
        “Ummm is not an answer!”

        • Xena says:

          @Big Willie.

          I’d like to see Judge Judy cross examine Foggen.
          “Ummm is not an answer!”

          OH YES!!! LOL. Also, her “If it doesn’t make sense, it’s not true.”

        • racerrodig says:

          ““Ummm is not an answer!” Very Good !!

          How about “…..see, my wife…..” “….I went, er, I was looking for”

          “…I don’t remember…” “…I just, for the life of me, couldn’t remember the names of……the 3 streets” “….he saw, I think he saw”

          I’m inclined to believe he will not have a single complete sentence as an answer unless it is “Yes” or “No” So hold up that graduation picture FogenPhoole and dream on, smirk on, and hold on, because the wild ride starts in 18 days.

      • Jun says:

        Judge Judy would get the bailiff to suplex Fogen

  50. FactsFirst says:

    SMMFH @West.. I swear he makes my a$$hole itch…

  51. trina cosbie says:

    What is this I hear about there is proof DD wasn’t on the phone with Trayvon before the shot?? Has anyone else heard this?

    • Shari says:

      There are phone records. Pay no attention to rumors the trial will begin next month. She was on the phone with him, the state has already verified that by now.

    • ay2z says:

      Nuttin’ obviously.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      That’s just Treeper madness.

    • Trained Observer says:

      @trina … No. Whoever you’re “hearing” from is dreaming, lying or both.

    • PYorck says:

      Yes, there are people who claim that. They conveniently forget that during the very first bond hearing Investigator Gilbreath testified under oath that the phone records confirmed that the call took place. The defense has had those records for almost a year now and we can safely assume that they would have cried bloody murder if they showed anything else.

  52. Jun says:

    Marijuana makes you lazy, happy, and hungry and relaxed

    If anything, it would make Trayvon more susceptible to being a victim of a violent crime

    I can understand if it was alcohol because that can make you fight good but really, marijuana LOL

    I bet you in the jury, there will be at least 2 or 3 marijuana users or former users and I doubt they will be buying that reefer madness crap

    • Malisha says:

      If he were high on MJ, Trayvon would have bought skittles, a package of gummi bears, some milky way candy bars, a 16-ounce bag of M&Ms, two of those 7-11 hot dogs with everything on them, “cocanut mounds” when you feel like a nut, a bag of ruffled potato chips, a half gallon bottle of some sweet drink, and a bag of snickers. Then he would have not even noticed Fogen and when Fogen came at him he would have said, “Hey wuzzup?” When Fogen asked “What you doin’ around here?” he would have answered, “chillin — hey man you need to put that thing away it looks just like a gun! Somebody’s likely to see you with that thing and call the cops on you!”

      • Jun says:

        Ah how factual on the effects of marijuana and based on scientific research, not crazy right wing wackos that work at the Price Mart

      • Nellie Nell says:

        Right! The last thing he’d want to do is ruin his high with some nonsense with a grown man while chilling on the phone with his girl!

  53. Shari says:

    I am bothered by this but there is good news. This means to me that the defense has NOTHING. Fogen has been charged with 2nd degree MURDER. I have seen nothing from them proving that he acted in self defense. They plan to go into court with rumors which I don’t think is possible. I’m no lawyer but just watching crime TV the victim is not put on trial. Fogen did not know Trayvon so anything about Trayvons life is not relevant.

    This blog post is the second time I have heard the term “reefer madness.” Dr. Drew was on his HLN show talking about this case and he referred to it when Trayvons autopsy was first released. That dog won’t hunt Fogen. Drug use is mainstream now. I’ve been telling the so-cons to get on board with the libertarians. Our current and last two presidents are admitted drug users. No one cares anymore. Remember “I didn’t inhale.?” (Clinton)That was a big deal then. Substance use is an American pastime now: cigarettes, weed, liquor, cocaine, adderall (its popular with the high school/college set to pass these around) Being in the vicinity of weed does not earn you a death penalty sentence to be meted out by your fellow citizen. Fogen and his ilk are ridiculous.

    Time to stop playing around and disrespecting the process team Fogen. Prove to the court that you acted in self defense. When you pulled the trigger and aimed for the screaming childs chest taking care not to shoot your hand were you being beat to death? What gives you the right to jump out your car and follow anyone? Did I hear you loading your gun on that NEN tape? You are a vile waste of life which is a precious gift. 51 people died as a result of a tornado and yet here you are breathing unrepentant about your murderous actions.

    This trial needs to begin. For the safety of all innocent children walking home minding their own business. Fogen is a danger and needs to be removed from civilized society.

    • Shari says:

      Adderall is a controlled substance so let me state that I don’t KNOW anyone doing this. I have never been prescribed this and have never used this. This is what I have read on forums and websites. This is what I have simply heard so I have no actual evidence of it.

    • ladystclaire says:

      Shari I couldn’t agree with you more. 51 people died in Oklahoma and, some were children with the youngest being 4 months and 7 months old, while we have this SOB aged 29 who has taken the life of a child and, he is now lying and trashing this kid with the hopes of a jury finding him not guilty of his crime. it don’t really seem right that this person should still be permitted to live among us, while those who are more deserving of life are taken from this world.

      I know this is not a dp case but, this MORON does not need to be walking around law abiding folk ever again. the good it seems leave this world, while this POS is still among us all the while trashing his victim. IMO a stop needs to be put to this and, it’s up to the court to do just that by denying this motion to further trash this child.

      • Shari says:

        Well I know how the blog owner feels about the Death Penalty so I won’t comment on that part of your response. I’ll just comment on how tragic it is that so many pass away from terminal illness, so many young Americans die in war, and here we have Fogen being rewarded with money and fame for his crime of murder.

    • kllypyn says:

      Trace amount means he may have smoked weed days or weeks before he was killed or he was near people who smoked weed. The only one who knows whether trayvon had weed when he arrived in sanford is Trayvon himself,and hes dead so he can’t say anything.

  54. KA says:

    It seems that the Appellate court has not ruled on the defense motion for deposing B. Crump yet.

    This is timely for the Defense as I expect they will ask for a continuance if it is granted. Is the appellate court under any obligation to rule on this before trial? Can the Defense use the absence of a ruling as an appeal?

    • ay2z says:

      KA, I don’t think the appeal panel has been asked to decide on an continuance. There was a request for a delay, but that was a delay of filing a response by defense to the appeals court itself, and that delay was granted to allow the defense a few extra days. Gone and done.

      The issue for the appellate court is to decide on a writ which asks that Benjamin Crump be deposed. (the delay request by the defense, was allowed after Bruce, Ben’s lawyer, filed his most excellent response as a letitimate ‘respondent’.

      I’m guessing that the decision will come down before the long weekend and before the next scheduled hearing. Just guessing, maybe the 5th will need longer.

      • KA says:

        I didn’t think they asked the appellate court, but I assumed if he had a positive ruling on the writ, then he would ask JN for a delay in trail to do the deposition.

      • ay2z says:

        No doubt, KA, but we know he can do a depo of a very important state expert in two hours!! JN might not buy a delay wish once she reads today’s request that she tell the state expert how much he can charge for a depo.

        (250-400 is all the defense is willing to pay the expert for his time, per hour x 2 hrs. Imagine, he won’t be able to bill for anything but two hours, no prep time included. )

  55. kllypyn says:

    Swaying at the counter. Was he drunk when he wrote that? We’ve all seen the video Trayvon was perfectly normal at the counter. I think he may have perjured himself.

    • ay2z says:

      What happened to ‘he was skipping’? ??

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Skipping<sway. Hmm, fancy swagger?

      • racerrodig says:

        Seems FogenPhoole treats Trayvon’s movements like “Rock, paper, scissors” Running, skipping, swaying, take your pick.

        • Xena says:

          @racerrodig. GZ was so chemically impaired that he did not know the difference between “running” and “skipping.” Just imagine had he told the dispatch that Trayvon was skipping.

          Dispatcher: He’s skipping. Which way is he skipping?

          GZ: Kinda like swaying back and forth.

          Dispatcher: I mean, which way is he headed?

          GZ: Onto the grass.

          Dispatcher: Grass? What grass?

          GZ: The grass in my car that I smoke.

          • racerrodig says:

            FogenPhoole will state he bought all this pot from Trayvon, how else would he know ??

            It is well know…….where fruitcake… the O’ Mara circle ??

      • Big Willie says:

        The next motion Ma West files will probably say, Trayvon wasn’t skipping, he was more like Crip Walking. They’ll try to show Trayvon had gang affiliations.

        • racerrodig says:

          Pretty funny how they have come full circle painting a picture of a skipping kid Fogen could not possible be afraid of to that gangsta selling & buying all that weed, all that swaying and such.

          I’ll stick with the truth, and the statements of the 7 – 11 clerk.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        LOL – Big Willie, The Treestump people did some stuff on their threads about crip walking last year. Dead serious. I ‘m surprised to that the defense hasn’t borrowed that one yet. 😀

    • ay2z says:

      Kllypyn, fine observation but there is one way Trayvon could be seen ‘swaying’ at the counter, and that would be somone who is reviewing that tape, was under the influence of something himself.

      How much did you toke, take or drink, Donald?

      • Malisha says:

        I remember one time a guy told me that his girlfriend was “so drunk that the edges of her face kept blurring.” I think that’s how West perceived that Trayvon was “swaying.”

  56. ay2z says:

    Michael Bublé is acting real suspicious. Must be on drugs or sumpthin.

  57. ay2z says:

    About the alleged apparent ‘sway’ under 7 Eleven videos, how many frames per second does the camera record? And how does this alter the perception of a person’s movement in the store?

    And when someone has a hoodie on, with the fit as with Trayvon’s hoodie, there’s side vision completely blocked, like blinders. So a person looking around to the side, has to look further around.

    Put a hoodie on, go out in a strange place where there is the possibility of traffic, and see how you must move your body and swing your head further, to get a view of what’s around you.

    I ended up doing this last evening, as I had a hoodie sweathirt jacket on, and it was raining, so put the hoodie up (sweatshirt style) and noticed how much side vision is blocked. It’s normal to have to ‘look around’ more, literally. ‘Looking around’ was one of the ‘suspicion factors’ by the galactically stupid fogen.

    • ay2z says:

      And when you have earbuds on, and you are listening to music, you are less aware of your traffic surroundings in a quiet street area and have to pay more visual attention.

    • Bill Taylor says:

      the only swaying i saw was him leaning forward to reach into his pockets and then leaning back after getting the money out……the lawyer filing that motion should have his license revoked.

      • Malisha says:

        Frye hearing on the methods West used to conclude that “it was known” that Trayvon Martin brought marijuana to Sanford AND the method he used to determine that “Trayvon swayed.” Put your experts up there, West, or do you want to try testifying again your damn self? OH NO I CAN’T BREATHE!

      • ladystclaire says:

        I agree Bill because, there was nothing strange in his demeanor when he was at that counter paying for his purchases. I tell you, this defense team is full of shit and they know it.

        They have done nothing but trash and smear this kid’s character from day one. I just heard Ryan Smith on HLN reading what he says was a copy of the toxicology report which he read and, it did not read like what was being put out by the ME when this first happened. I hope this motion is denied and, this trial can go ahead as scheduled with Fogen being convicted and sentenced so, this baby can rest in peace. this defense should be ran out of the damn country for what they are doing to this child.

      • KA says:

        West needs no experts…he can always put himself on the stand to “testify” how true everything is.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      “galactically stupid” Great figure of speech!

  58. ay2z says:

    It’s a frightening thought, that any parent on the jury might face their own teenager being shot because of someone like fogen. Someone might have an injury, or have tripped over a sprinkler head or a curb, or might have a medical problem causing dizziness. Instead of calling for help, you tell NEN that this is a reason to be suspicious, and you follow with loaded gun to do something about it.

    Bernie can handle this nonsense.

  59. Jodi Arias to George Zimmerman: HLN announces shift,0,

    After the Jodi Arias trial concludes, HLN has big plans, and George Zimmerman is a major part of them.

    HLN on Wednesday announced that it will offer a Zimmerman preview, “Zimmerman Police Tapes,” at 6 p.m. Monday (Memorial Day). Zimmerman is charged with second-degree murder in the death of Trayvon Martin.

    HLN is promising extensive coverage of the Zimmerman trial, set to begin June 10. The channel will present the special “HLN After Dark Zimmerman” at a date to be announced later.

    The channel did offer this preview: “This special will review issues surrounding this hot-button case and feature HLN’s on-air team including Nancy Grace, Jane Velez-Mitchell, Dr. Drew, Vinnie Politan and Ryan Smith, who will provide expert commentary.”

    “HLN After Dark” will air at 10 p.m. Mondays through Thursdays in June and the topics will be trials and other stories in the “court of public opinion,” HLN said. The start date will be announced later.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Doesn’t sound like good news for Team Fogen.

      • racerrodig says:

        Nancy G. hates this guy…..Vinnie is always pretty realistic and JVM will probably roast him as well. No, it doesn’t look good for Fogen on this Channel.

        Dare I say it…….Sure sucks to be Fogen about now, but hey, we’ll get to read the crap from the Outhouse and Robbie the Racist talking bad about HLN now.

        I guess Papa Z will say how unfair the media really is now. Maybe he bought some of those “Survivor” shirts ?????

      • Malisha says:

        I hate to say this but anybody who buys a “survivor T shirt” from Arias will have a bit of bad luck if she gets the death sentence. Try surviving THAT!

        • The jury announced today that it’s hung.

          Judge told them to keep trying.

          If they can’t reach a verdict, the jury will be dismissed and a new jury will be chosen.

          If that jury can’t reach a verdict, the judge will impose the sentence, choosing between life without parole or life with parole eligibility after serving 25 years.

          Hang on to your hats.

    • ay2z says:

      Looks like OS is also turning to the TVGuy for coverage, since it’s now a primetime focus for HLN maybe?

    • Nef05 says:

      I saw a preview for the Memorial Day special, while checking for the Arias life/death verdict. I was pleased to see they were making special note of how the pictures of fogen hand’s refute his claims.

      I say “pleased to see” because I had thought they had a pro-fogen slant so far, with all the O’Mara interviews and regurgitations of his lies, without doing any background work on the actual evidence. Looks like they might actually be getting to that part, now. About time!

      • racerrodig says:

        To be honest, I never thought they had a Pro – Fogen stance. It might look that way, but Nancy G seems to be the standard bearer and if you saw her interviews last year with any of the Zidits, that was just a taste.

    • KA says:

      I honestly cannot listen to Nancy Grace. She seems to enjoy her job FAR too much.

      I like that she is a TM supporter, but I can hardly stand her nonstop assumptions and put downs. I feel like I am listening to a female [admittedly more sane] version of Rush.

  60. KA says:


    I cannot remember if you addressed this before specifically, but how will the defense enter a position of self defense and “fearing for his life” at the shot if Bernie does not enter anything they can use to garb a hold of for that and GZ does not testify? I suspect others (who did not witness the fight) cannot be used as evidence for this, right?

    I guess they will show the medical report and have a paramedic state he had blood everywhere?

    Since forensic evidence does not support Trayvon even touching any blood, then what would they have to counter this since they are not in control of the presentation of the defendants statements? I assume that is what they wanted the police officers they deposed to fill in those details.

  61. ladystclaire says:

    One would think that the defense has had enough of associating with their fellow bigots at the CSH in other words, The Conservative Slum House. seeing that they have been called out in court more than one time about this alliance they have with these IMBECILES, they keep going back for more and more legal advice from the *SCUM* of the earth which is the CSH.

    This defense does not have a defense for this child murderer and, they should just give it up and just go through the motions of defending a client who is guilty of the charges leveled against his fat ass. they have thrown everything they can think of against the wall and, NOT ONE THING HAS STUCK. this is a loosing cause and, they know it which is why they are smearing the character of this child murder victim.

    These people should be ashamed of themselves for what they are doing to this victim and his family. no one will ever know what kinds of drugs may have been in the system of this murderer because, in typical racist fashion, SP decided to drug test the AA victim and, not his half breed murderer. this motion should be denied as there is no evidence to back up their claim. when are they going to be sanctioned for some of the things and there are many, that they have done which I believe quite a few of them are ILLEGAL and, they should be held to the same standards as the state.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I wonder how many of the paying defense supporters will realize they’ve been gamed with all these irresponsible and manipulative motions?

      • ladystclaire says:

        @TS, I don’t think what supporters he has left, will ever realize that they are being hoodwinked because, they are so full of hate and bigotry against Trayvon, his family and AA in general. they thrive on this kind of stuff and, to think that some of his supporters are mothers themselves, which makes this all the more frightening to know, that these women have carried a child under their hearts for nine months but, they can see fit to support this person who has taken the life of Sybrina Martins baby boy. what kind of women are these? children are gifts from GOD yet we have some mothers who can support the death of another womans child. go F’ing figure.

        • Shari says:

          Excellent point.

          I have followed these “show trials” and this is the first time that the defendant has enjoyed such a loyal following. They are so consumed with hate that a high school student who was 17 for a few weeks has been described as a hulking thug. The adult man who stalked and murdered him has been made into a victim. Many character witnesses non family have given positive testimony of the victim. Fogen’s character witnesses have revealed him to be a molester, drunk, racist, and domestic abuser, and also important to note he is friends with many racists.

  62. Trained Observer says:

    Trayvon allegedly “sways” at the counter. Is that to offset Fogen’s “shimmy” near the T?

    • KA says:

      The “shimmy” at the T exposed the gun right which would be 30 sec before the shot?

      How did they get 50 ft down?

      The story will be crucified by BLDR if it is even told at all. Most of it is just physically impossible.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Yes, indeedy!

      • racerrodig says:

        I’m dying to see Fogen on the stand which would be a catastrophic mistake. Then again if he doesn’t that’s a fatal error……Sucks to be Fogen about now !!

        Anyway, if he gets in the Box, I can’t wait for Bernie to utter these words, “…..really, that’s how you remember it……please, show us… fact, here is a Sheriff’s officer that is 5′-11″ and 158 pounds, the exact size and weight as Mr. Martin”

      • Trained Observer says:

        Lie down, Fogen, and show us your shimmy

      • Ezz-Thetic says:

        Maybe Bernie can play this song for Fogen to help him get his shimmy on in court —>

      • ay2z says:

        “Shimmy shimmy co-co pop, shimmy shimmy sway–ayyy..”

      • Two sides to a story says:

        LSC – 😀 Still laughing this morning. Funniest threads ever!

      • Malisha says:

        The most ridiculous thing about Fogen’s story is the idea that either of these two things could have happened while one of the parties was trying hard to kill the other and the other was getting his head smashed, face punched, and broken nose and mouth smothered while “blood was everywhere” including in his eyes so he couldn’t see:

        (a) Beat-down victim while being ferociously beaten and while shimmying in self-defense FEELS HIS JACKET RISE UP.

        Uh — Noooooooooooooooo he doesn’t. During a beat-down like the one Fogen described he doesn’t know he HAS a jacket and he doesn’t know which way is UP.

        (b) Beat-down administrator SEES his victim’s jacket ride up and notices that he is carrying a gun in a holster on his hip by his lil right but-tock.

        Uh — Noooooooooooooo he doesn’t. While he’s finishing off the last half dozen head-smashes and face-pummels, he’s focused on Fogen’s EYES to see when they roll back and the little line of blood dribbles out of Fogen’s mouth indicating, like in the movies, that his prey has finally given up the ghost. WHEREUPON he can regain his skittles and saunter (having already skipped and swayed) home, homie.

        See, neither beator nor beatee was paying attention to either the wardrobe fail or the but-tock bundle.

        • racerrodig says:

          O’ Mara was a laugh riot on HLN last night saying his client was being pummeled at least a half dozen times.

          He’ll never get it………….never. He describes the little cut on his nose as a little cut…….but man was he pummeled….

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I almsot spit my tea again! LOL!

  63. William Walton says:

    Prof: you use the analytical term ng/mL for concentration. As a Chemist & Chemical Engineer to me this would mean nanograms/Milliliter. I think the correct term should be mg/mL which would mean milligrams/Milliliter. This is the standard designation in analytical chemistry for stating a concentration of a substance. Since a mg is only 1000 th of a gram in one Liter, the concentration of the drug in TM’s blood would be low. One must keep in mind that it takes 454 grams to equal 1 pound. Therefore, my opinion is that West is grabbing at straws.

    • I didn’t. West did. But, IIRC, the toxicological results were reported in ng/ml.

      • William Walton says:

        Prof: this gets stranger and stranger as time goes on. Obviously West and the toxicological technologist do not realize that ng/mL means nanograms/mL which equates to 1/billionth g/mL. Therefore, one has to realize that the technologist doing the analysis did not have the instrument calibrated correctly or cannot perform simple mathematical calculations. In otherwords, the results are pure bullshit. With that small amount ng/mL, it should be considered as non specific. It is not thought that that very small amount would even enter into the case in question.

    • Rachael says:

      A lot of lab results are measured in ng/mL. For example, an ideal vitamin D level is 50 ng/mL, normal PSA levels range from 0 ng/ml to 4 ng/ml, ferritin is 30-400 ng/ml for males and 15-200ng/ml for females, etc.

      • IIRC, studies have been performed with many drugs to quantify the difference between a trace amount, therapeutic level, and toxic level in terms of ng/mL. The results have been published in peer reviewed journals.

      • William Walton says:

        Rachael, drugs may be measured in ng/mL. However, the point is that a ng is one billionth of a gram. Therefore, the concentration is very small. The question I would ask would be at what level ng/mL would be need for TM to be considered drugged?

      • Rachael says:

        I guess I thought that was kind of the point. Yes, it was detectable in his system, but that is about it so it means nothing. Absolutely nothing. The ONLY reason they are bringing it up is they think people (even people who believe GZ may have done this in self-defense) don’t know that and want to continue with the thugification. They want people to hear that he had a barely detectable amount in his system, therefore, he is a horrible drug addict who punches and steals and godknowwhat else. But most people, even those who believe in GZ, know better when it comes to that, so it only opens up the door to the fact that GZ also took drugs and even though they were prescription drugs, IF he was taking them, the side effects *could* have been worse than anything from the almost nonexistent amount of THC in Trayvon.

        I really don’t know why they are doing this, unless they are purposely trying to get GZ convicted.

      • Rachael says:

        Ooops, thought my post was going to land under WW’s.

  64. KA says:

    The way the fight was recalled by GZ, forget Superman, Trayvon would have to be God to know and respond the way he did to GZ’s thoughts.

    When did pot make you hyper alert of your surroundings and moreso, to what the other people are THINKING?

    (of course, as well as having night vision and the ability to see through someones body)

  65. ay2z says:

    Time for pure entertainment break, chuckle on Donald West’s nickle.

  66. Zia B. says:

    It doesn’t matter how bad Skeletor et all make themselves look, they can always, always sink a little lower and look even dirtier. Watch out for the Zimbots, I mean fleas, they love shyt!

    Just disgusted. The defense knows that state wants all of that information under wraps because it is irrelevant and they decide to expose lies and dramatizations. Someone call Andy Cohen over at the Bravo Network and get these losers on the next Housewives franchise, they love drama for no reason.

    June 10 is a coming though…doom doom doom.

    • KA says:

      The Defense will conduct a circus I am sure.

      • Zia B. says:

        And my popcorn and nachos will be in hand because Judge Nelson doesn’t look like she is in the mood for tomfoolery and shenanigans. The image of Homie the Clown from the 90’s show In Living Color comes to mind…watch out for that gavel Fogen, might give you a real life threatening head injury…or maybe just more abrasions, his head is hard.

      • KA says:

        I hope so.

        It seems Tomfoolery is all they have going for them. Banning it would take away their defense strategy.

  67. Big Willie says:

    The swaying Ma West is referring to, is what we call swagger!

    • Zia B. says:

      You mean Swagger like this???

      [I embedded your link by removing everything except the web address]

    • Did you say swagger? Oh yes! And here is swagger on 100!

      • ay2z says:

        Don’t you need the right style and color of threads to do a real cool swagger, you dig? .

      • ay2z says:

        Xena, now that’s a class act swagger!!

      • ay2z: I almost wet myself with that Mongo Slade. I lurched around the room laughing so hard, though I was gonna break a rib. So, I ripped it then and put it in my other post, with a hat tip.

        (Movie scene exchanges are a favorite hobby for like, 40 years now!)

      • Nellie Nell says:

        I have a problem with the letters on the lapel.

      • Big Willie says:

        OMG, what’s not to love about orange w/ pink… It’s the latest trend in high fashion, it’s called color-blocking. Hard to believe but true.

      • ay2z says:

        A video lesson for fogen. Talk can get you out of a bad situation, and you had three opportunities that Singleton and Serino saw, to talk to ‘the guy’ to let him know that you were not going to do him any harm.

        Of course, it would be a huge mistake to wait til the dark back walkway and bushes to try this particular technique, but the clubhouse, or the street anywhere, using lighting from a vehicle or under club house area cameras, to ask ‘they guy’ if he were lost, or to find out if Trayvon lived here or was visiting. And leave off the last bit, physical intervention is not your thing, fogen.

        Prof, no colourblocking in this scene, your eyes are safe.

      • Two sides to a story says:


    • Two sides to a story says:

      Hahaha. Brings back memories of the extreme swagger black kids used to do in my HS days back in the late 60s and early 70s.

      The defense is just jealous. OM, West, and Fogen couldn’t swagger right to save their souls.

    • Zia B. says:

      Bless you…I read the blog post and comments every day and am just getting my nerve up to post. Thanks for correcting the embed link!

    • ay2z says:

      BW, love that fashion page. It’s retro mid-to-late 60’s when polyester knits were happening in fluorescent colours, but the colour’ blocks’ were smaller, and would fall into stripes or pattern category.

      Notice the little black bodice empire waste number with the pink skirt? Remove the bottom ruffle and the scallops. and you have Twiggy revived!

      The fabrics are so much nicer, thank goodness there’s one good reason for the oil crisis… polyester double-knits are gone!

      I’m thinking this little Mongo Slade mini-thread could be the basis for someone’s PhD thesis from a wide choice of fields. 😉

  68. Stormwatch says:

    Ironically, it was probably their client who was high that night. All jacked-up on his anti-anxiety and anti-depression meds. It’s also ironic that it was GZ who actually had a violent past and not the kid.

  69. Ezz-Thetic says:

    The Zimmerman defense team continues to set new lows for the lawyer profession.

    • As a former criminal defense attorney, I am offended by what they have done and continue to do.

      • Trained Observer says:

        This motion strikes me as thunk up by someone of the mentality of Fogen (who may well have demanded that it be generated) … and then O’Mara dumped the sign-off onto West).

        • Xena says:

          @Trained Observer. That motion really does seem to based on rumor. It might even reasonably be said that it’s based on profiling.

      • @XENA

        It might even reasonably be said that it’s based on profiling.

        You’re in my head.

      • Trained Observer says:

        @Xena — Yes, on rumor AND on profiling … they might not want to go there. What nonsense. I can hear JN’s DENIED now.

      • ladystclaire says:

        Professor, I can understand where you are coming from because, I’ll be willing to bet, that these two defense attorneys are a complete embarrassment to defense attorneys all over the country and, maybe even the world.

        They have done nothing but trash this child from day one, at the insistence of evil racist bigoted people who are just like them. they themselves are racist and, this is why they are so keen on taking the advice of their fellow racist and, it’s a damn shame. they don’t care about or represent the truth in this case. they only want to win as if this is some kind of game.

        Fogen should have thought the consequence’s of his actions and, maybe his fat ass wouldn’t be in the mess that he himself caused. the coward is afraid of what lies ahead for him and, he should know the same fear that Trayvon had the misfortune of knowing all because of this SOB. Fogen is going to know what it is to live in fer for the rest of his miserable pathetic life.

      • Big Willie says:

        @Professor: After the trial is over, how do you think the “Ma West Dog & Poney Show”, will be viewed amongst the legal community?

      • Two sides to a story says:

        “not even wearing orange and pink will save them.”

        😀 Oh, Prof, I’m rolling on the ground laughing and crying by now. I love you all~

        • racerrodig says:

          I learned some months ago never, ever read a post when I have any fluid on my mouth or in my hand. Seems I just about fall off my stool reading some comments……yep, you guys and gals are the best……..and dedicated as well !!

    • KA says:

      I can’t believe West quit his job to work on this case…

      • KA says:

        He (and MOM) have got to be holding out for a book deal on this stinker.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Trial coverage will be so heavy, and they’ll look like such fools, who’d want to buy their printed version of this circus — besides Knox?

      • Big Willie says:

        Sort of like, leaving your office job to join the circus. Makes no sense…

        • racerrodig says:

          None at all. Maybe he said “….gee, that Z guy is being railroaded and he needs some real representation…….poor guy, getting attacked so brutally and all” to which his boss said …..

          “Really, with that logic, take all the time you need to help his racist ass……you’re fired”

          Ya just never really know what happened.

  70. fauxmccoy says:

    puff, puff, pass

  71. Rachael says:

    It may have “appeared” to GZ that Trayvon looked as though “he was on drugs,” but the voice I heard on GZ’s call SOUNDED like he was on drugs.

    I have more reason to suspect GZ was on drugs than Trayvon was. Why? Well because unlike Mr. West, I do not know that Trayvon brought marijuana with him from south Florida to use while he was in Sanford and he used it at least one time after arriving in Sanford prior to his death. Of course it is possible Mr. West knows something I do not know.

    But what I DO know is the medications GZ was on and the side effects that one “could” have even when taken appropriately. But I also know that prescription drug abuse is a major problem.

    Was GZ abusing prescription drugs? I have no idea. But I do know he was prescribed them and supposedly taking them and again, what he was taking had much more severe side effects than marijuana.

    I have not heard of a connection between marijuana and aggression. However, aggression IS a known side effect of at LEAST one of the medications GZ was known to be on.

    • Jun says:

      This is where Fogen’s DNA samples come into play

      Because they can check the DNA samples for drugs on rebuttal

      Considering he was on prescription drugs, it should show up on toxicology LOL

      • Rachael says:

        Jun – Do you realize that the D in DNA does NOT stand for Drugs? DNA is short for deoxyribonucleic acid – genetic material, i.e., an organism’s genetic blueprint.

        Yes, prescription drugs would show up on toxicology – but that has nothing to do with DNA.


        They are two very separate tests for two very separate things.

      • Jun says:

        Yes, I understand that

        But to get DNA, they get blood or other types of samples from Fogen, therefore, they could check it for drugs, especially if they did buccal swabs inside the mouth

      • Rachael says:

        No Jun, they can’t. They are not testing for the same thing. Have you ever had blood drawn? Have you ever wondered why sometimes they draw one tube, sometimes the draw three? Have you ever noticed that the tubes have different colored caps? For some blood tests, they need a certain quantity of blood. For other tests they need certain things in the tubes (like heparin to keep the blood from clotting).

        For some tests, like blood sugar, you can test sugar in just one drop from a finger prick.

        You need different specimens to test for different things.

        • racerrodig says:

          My wife draws blood for a living, among other things being a Phlebotomist. Yes, they often draw quite a few and the colors are coded, not that I know any more than that, but she does.

      • Rachael says:

        What I am saying is they can test DNA from a spot of blood on clothing or whatever. They do not need to DRAW blood – and even if they had, it wouldn’t be any good by now, I’m sure. And they cannot get tox results from a cheek swab. That is for obtaining tissue to check for DNA.

        A toxicology screen is most done using a blood or urine sample and they did not draw blood on GZ.

        If they could do a tox screen on what they have, they’d have done it long ago. That is the problem. They tested the victim, but not the shooter.

        Get it?

        • fauxmccoy says:

          rachael says

          Get it?

          thank you! i’m about to lose it here and am trying my best not to – this argument is asinine.

      • Jun says:

        I do not know how they drew Fogen’s DNA but there may be trace amounts of drugs from where they took the sample, such as the in the mouth swabs and blood test

      • Rachael says:

        WHAT IS IT YOU ARE NOT UNDERSTANDING HERE???!!!! The did NOT draw any blood on GZ which is why they cannot do a toxicology screen – and most likely why he did not want to go to the hospital because they would have drawn blood for a toxicology.

        You do NOT need to draw blood for DNA. If he had blood on him, that can be tested for DNA. When they take a the swab from the cheek, they are obtaining tissue to check for DNA. When they take fingernail scrapings, they are looking for someone’s DNA.


        Toxicology screens are performed on blood and saliva. The blood has to come from a vein (as in a blood draw) so it is NOT CONTAMINATED!!!! And I don’t know off hand how much is necessary – it may depend on how many things they are checking for but at least a couple mL.

        You cannot do a toxicology screen on a tissue specimen from a cheek swab. You cannot do a tox screen on a dried blood spot.

        These are NOT the right kind of specimens for that. Tox screens are taken from blood (not a spot of blood here and there, but a venous blood draw) and/or urine. To some extent, saliva too – but again, it is a specimen that has to be collected in a certain way.

        One more time Jun, this is why some people (count me in this) are SO angry – because they did not test GZ for drugs when he is the one who did the shooting. I know we have all talked about it before as probably one of the reasons GZ did not want to go to the hospital – because he was afraid they would draw blood for drug testing.

        I don’t know why you keep saying they can get drug test results from one-year old specimens they used for DNA, but don’t you think if they could, they would have by now?

        Anyway, I’m done. I don’t understand what you don’t understand about this. And I have to go to bed.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        jun says

        This is where Fogen’s DNA samples come into play

        Because they can check the DNA samples for drugs on rebuttal

        Considering he was on prescription drugs, it should show up on toxicology LOL

        jun, we tried to explain this to you earlier, but you persist on asserting nonsense. to be clear — rachael is a nurse, i am an anthropologist who has had to study a fair amount of physical and forensic anthropology — THERE ARE NO TOX REPORTS TO BE OBTAINED FROM A DNA SWAB. period. the end.

        psychotropic drugs do not change the chemical structure of dna. unless a blood or urine sample was taken of GZ on the night of the crime and properly preserved (we know it was not) toxicology info on his condition at the time is forever lost.

        for the love of god, please just stop this.

        • racerrodig says:

          My wife does this for a living yes, they would have drawn several vials of blood and the police / prosecution would have to state what they are testing for.

      • Jun says:

        I never said it changes the DNA, but if you swab the inside of the mouth for DNA, whatever the person took, there would be trace amounts of whatever the person took, because they used saliva

        For example if you ate a steak, and someone buccal swabbed inside your mouth, under a microscope, they would find trace amounts of the steak from the swab

        and if you took drugs, it would show in your blood or urine, so all I was suggesting was whichever method they used to get the DNA, whether it is blood or saliva, there may be trace amounts of drugs, is all I am saying, from the DNA sample, be it blood or saliva

        I am not being persistent, you just do not understand me

        A DNA sample is taken with saliva or blood hence the saliva or blood can be tested for drugs

        So, if they swabbed his mouth for DNA, they can also use the saliva sample to test for drugs

      • Rachael says:

        I understand you and you are wrong. You can’t. They did not take a saliva test, they did not take a blood test. There is nothing to be obtained from a swab but tissue for DNA. It is not the right kind of sample to obtain a toxicology screen from.

        They did not obtain toxicology specimens at the time. There is nothing that can be done about it now. There was no blood drawn, no UA, no saliva test.

        They swabbed his cheek for DNA so they could match it to blood stains on his things and Trayvon’s.

        It was not the right kind of specimen for toxicology then and it certainly isn’t now – a year later.

        • You are correct and even if it were possible to do a toxicology screen from saliva and cheek cells, which it isn’t, the buccal swabs were collected approximately 24 hours after the shooting rendering those theoretical toxicology results irrelevant.

        • racerrodig says:

          They did take a saliva test. It’s recorded on video in one of the interviews.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            racer says

            They did take a saliva test. It’s recorded on video in one of the interviews.

            yup, they did. that was the buccal swab taken for dna testing only and 24 hours after the shooting. it was only ever used for dna purposes and if still around is nothing but a dried out qtip at this point and good for absolutely nothing.

            as rachael has stated, it is the wrong kind of test for any toxicology report and since taken 24 hours later would be irrelevant anyway. it’s completely useless for any other purpose. we will never know what gz was on that night, which is the sad and undeniable truth.

          • racerrodig says:

            Well, I was half right…..swabbed, but not a saliva test. My bad !!

          • fauxmccoy says:

            racer – you not bad, we all know you’re gooooood when you’re bad 🙂 i was just trying to add some more info. yes, those of us who saw the infamous ‘stress test’ video, saw a tech come in to get a swab from zim’s cheek. this is called a ‘buccal swab’ and is meant to gather cells from inside the cheek to do a DNA test, saliva although present on the swab is not what is being collected.

            more info —

            what is silly is to argue with those of us who do know more about these things and to keep insisting that somehow we can gather toxicology info from a dried out q-tip a year later which would be worthless since it was taken 24 hours after the shooting and is the wrong type of sample.

          • racerrodig says:

            My wife is a Phlebodomist and I should have know the difference.
            She did explain it to me back then and I just forgot…..then again, I don’t think she’d be competitive in Super Pro Eliminator……..

      • Rachael says:

        IOW, they did not do the swab at the time for drug testing, they did it for DNA. EVEN IF they were even to still have the swab, ANY SALIVA WOULD BE DRIED UP and no longer useful for drug testing. If it would be, they’d have done it. They didn’t. They did not test GZ for drugs at the time. That opportunity is gone.

        They did not test GZ for drugs.

      • Jun says:

        a buccal swab contains saliva

        i do not get why you say it cant be tested

        why not give it a shot anyways?

      • Jun says:

        it says there that you can simply use a buccal swab to grab saliva for the test

        • Although a buccal swab will collect saliva, the purpose for using the swab is to collect epithelial cells from the lining of the cheek inside the mouth. That’s an excellent source of nucleated cellular tissue to use to develop a complete uncontaminated DNA profile using the STR/PCR testing process with the 13 independent DNA sites.

          By uncontaminated, I mean DNA that is not contaminated by another person’s DNA.

          Saliva also contains nucleated cells from which a DNA profile can be obtained, however, there are fewer nucleated cells in saliva compared to epithelial cells where each cell contains a nucleus.

          Finally, even if it were possible to do a toxicology screen from a dried buccal swab, and I do not believe accurate and reliable results can be obtained or interpreted meaningfully due to a lack of published peer reviewed drug concentration tables for saliva, the results would be irrelevant and inadmissible since the swabs were obtained approximately 24 hours after the shooting.

      • aussie says:

        There do exist roadside tests for drugs which work with saliva. A couple of States here use it.

        A very large amount is needed. The person is asked to suck and lick a flat stick, like a double-width paddle pop, and rub it on their tongues, for about half a minute. It has to be dripping with saliva. And then they put it in with some chemical in a bag and it shows a colour if there are some substances present. It does not show exactly what and certainly doesn’t show how much of it. It is used only to decide whether or not to take the person in for a blood test. The best it can is some indication of what type of drug.

        • Yep, it’s a screening test used to determine whether further analysis should be done. Drawing blood is considered an invasive procedure that should not be done unless there is probable cause to believe the person is under the influence or impaired by drugs. A positive reaction to the screening test supplies the requisite basis. However, the result is never definitive and requires confirmatory testing.

          Screening tests typically react to some substances other than drugs (false positives), or an entire family of drugs such as benzodiazepines (lack of specificity), and also lack the ability to quantify the amount of drug or metabolite present. Gas or liquid chromatography and mass spectrometry (GCMS or LCMS) are used to detect and quantify the specific drug and its metabolite present in blood. The results are reported in ng/mL.

    • Soulcatcher says:

      Makes you kind of wonder who was on something, considering Zippy can’t even remember what street he’s on, and after he sees Trayvon skipping away, feels the need to walk way over to the other side to get an address that NEN said they needed and forgot to give to them, because they never asked for it anyway. He does remember them asking him if he still wanted the police to come since he didn’t see Skippy anymore, and even answers, yes.

    • This is what I’m surprised at, either the defense doesn’t expect this motion to fly and only filed it to get the info in the public eye. Or they will have to speak to GZ’s own prescription drug use. It’s not considered possible drug use. All the state would have to do is check on how frequently GZ has his Adderall filled. It should be every thirty days, give or take a day at most, since the state is very strict on filling these scripts on time but never early unless the physician’s permission is given. If GZ gets his prescriptions filled like clockwork, it’s easy for the state to argue that he was on Adderall and Temazepam, a sleeping pill, both of which will alter mental status. Does the state really want to open that mess up for their client? Most people are familiar with the effects of pot and don’t consider it to be a drug that will cause someone to become violent. Adderall will definitely look to be the far more negative drug to be on when comparing the two of them.

  72. boyd says:

    Yeah I could tell you were pissed “Come on son!” I hear that lingo in West Virgina and Shenandoah Virgina.

    • I actually picked up ‘Come on, son’ from YouTube and thought it was fabulous. It just says it all.

      • I picked it up from Crane-Station.

      • It’s hilarious, isn’t it? We use the gif all the time and a few more hilarious smilies. 🙂

      • boyd says:

        They have a certain way of saying ‘Come on son’ with a long southern like drawl. It’s good put down. Always a good chuckle. I can’t do it Middle Atlantic accent

        • Oh I love that drawl so much. I have a weird situation where I was born in Missouri, raised in Portland, lived in LA, Seattle etc, but then, moved to Kentucky. Now, KY natives say I talk with an accent, but at the same time, my family claims “Is that a drawl I am hearing?”

          You watch me though, I’ma do a post on these brilliant colloquialisms. Random example:’ If his brains was gasoline, he wouldn’t have sense enough to run a pissant’s Go-Kart around the inside of a donut.’

          I got this.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        : D I can always count on you, Crane, to make me laugh out loud!

  73. Crickets in that motion as far as a link to any PubMed research article. That was the first thing that jumped out. Plus, it looks sleazy to say “nationally recognized” whatever…without any citation whatsoever. West sort of pisses me off in general though, granted.

  74. Trained Observer says:


    This entire case has suffered from the “where to begin” factor.
    It goes to show, however, that your “famous and reliable witness ‘It’ ” is alive, well and Fogen’s best buddy. But worms do turn, as I suspect “It” soon will do, going up in a puff of non-pot related smoke. LOL.

  75. Valerie says:

    Questions: Will West present “it” the drug dealer to testify that he sold Trayvon weed? Will”it” testify incognito…wearing a trash bag…because this sounds like garbage to me.

    • I’m pleased to report that Generalissimo It will testify wearing a brown bag over his head.

      Or, is it Wild Bill with a pointy-headed white sheet with two eye holes?

      • aussie says:

        Just one eye hole should be plenty for him.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        LOLOL. Remember the kids that the Treepers call the “three stooges” ? One of them had his hoody tied so tight you couldn’t see his face in the 7-11 videos, shades of the little character on South Park. These kids pass Trayvon outside the store as he’s on his way out and he seems to stop to talk to them for a moment. Maybe that guy is IT and they’ll put him on the stand with only his nose and mouth showing – ROTFL. He and Wild Bill would make a fine dynamic duo for the defense.

        Anyone have a link to that video?

      • racerrodig says:

        You know what “they” say…….

    • Rachael says:

      Wasn’t there something in the one of the receipts from the security company that GZ owes money to where there someone said something about trying to say that one of their clients was going to say that Trayvon sold his daughter pot or something? I’ll have to see if I can find that.

      • That was a rumor the investigator attempted to track down without success.

      • Rachael says:

        Okay. Thanks. That was bothering me.

      • towerflower says:

        That was in an email to MOM from the security company, which also did investigative work for MOM, where he said he had a new rumor where a client of theirs said their daughter had bought pot from TM. They admitted it was only a rumor but they would check it out anyway. Nothing else was ever said about this and it is a dead end.

        You can find it in the lawsuit documents.

  76. Xena says:

    If I were a lawyer, the last position I would want to be in is arguing that the victim couldn’t walk straight, but was able to hit the defendant squarely on the nose.

      • Leisa says:

        If Trayvon was so unstead on his feet, how is it the wuss couldn’t get out from under him. The defense is desperate.

    • KA says:

      So true

      …my question when I saw this yesterday was the

      “From other evidence in the case, it is known that Trayvon Martin brought marijuana with him from south Florida to use while he was in Sanford and he used it at least one time after arriving in Sanford prior to his death.”

      So one, what “other evidence” or “it is known” (by who? The CTH bloggers?) and two, it seems to indicate they have NO EVIDENCE that he was high when he was killed. “…at least one time…” would say that they are throwing crap out to see if it sticks or they have some deposition of someone saying they smoked with TM, but it was not in a window of “recent” to the murder (or they would have said it).

      utter trash.

      • Xena says:

        @KA. Judge Nelson is likely to grant the State’s motion. The defense’s response is lacking sufficient evidence to be granted, and sufficient relevance to the case. Trayvon could have been killed with a joint in his hand, that still doesn’t prove that GZ killed him in self-defense.

        The Feign Team has wanted to litigate this case starting with point Z when point A is what applies to the law; i.e., if not but for the fact that GZ got out of his vehicle and followed Trayvon, the two would not have come into physical contact.

      • KA says:

        Xena – the denial for insufficient cause, point, relevance, or case law seems to get most of their motions denied.

        It is like a running defense pattern…

        Throw something out, hope to get lucky… (ie desperation).

        • Xena says:


          Throw something out, hope to get lucky… (ie desperation).

          Yep. Appeal to Zidiots so they will donate money. GZ has a huge appetite and ShelLIE needs money to pay her lawyer.

      • MelRoy says:

        But Xena, isn’t the defense’s M.O. to influence the jury pool and public opinion rather than have motions granted? When the motion is denied, the defense will claim bias, cover-up, inherent unfairness and prejudice against the defendant.

        Whether the members of the jury are wise enough to see through that is debatable.

        • Xena says:


          But Xena, isn’t the defense’s M.O. to influence the jury pool and public opinion rather than have motions granted?

          IMO, it’s more to appease those promising to donate money.

          When the motion is denied, the defense will claim bias, cover-up, inherent unfairness and prejudice against the defendant.

          The Feign Team leaves that up to Junior. Then they can issue a retort in the media that they disagree with what Junior is doing.

      • lurker says:

        My first thought it that this will now appear in the news (so they hope) and that perhaps some jurors will hear of it.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Melroy – you hit the nail on the head. The defense doesn’t seriously think this motion will fly. It’s simply more drama for the paying supporters who believe that marijuana is a weapon of mass destruction wielded by budding thugs. They have to pay that $3300 expert, ya know.

        Professor I so wish that the defense would be held in contempt for at least one thing that they do. Just when you think they can’t go any lower they create a new bottom.

      • racerrodig says:

        When my dad was a cop one of the things he taught me in situations like this is “Prove it” “ is known…” by who ?? “They” like “…they say…” Who the hell are they ?? are they related to “it” ???

        Do “they” actually know how preposterous “they” sound.

        So with new evidence it is now know the defendant is a flaming asshole, as is his entire posse.

        How come Sundance Crackpot didn’t break this news ???

      • Malisha says:

        RE: “It is known…” BY WHOM:

        I have it now on good authority that “it is known” by an informed source. This informed source, however, was…

        dahn da dahn dahn daaaaaaahnnnnnn…


        And by whom was that informed source coached?

        Jeralyn! Depose her RIGHT NOW!

      • ladystclaire says:

        Why would these two dip sticks listen to these tree fungus among us? Do they realize how ignorant this makes them look? We don’t have a defense for this murderer, so lets trash the victim. Also, we haven’t a clue about what to do here so, why not consult our fellowers @ the CSH for some legal advice. SNDH

      • Jun says:

        It is known while wearing tinfoil hats for bat signals

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Thanks, Malisha, for my first laugh of the day. LOLOL. Depose Jeralyn Merritt, indeed!

    • mcave77 says:

      Yep!! I was thinking the same thing. Why would they even begin to argue that he was “swaying”…lol. Really? So now it is the 50 lb lighter, unarmed, impaired teen was able to overcome the 50 lb heavier, alert, older, ex-bouncer. smh… They have no defense. NO one is going to accept this MJ made him do it argument. This is an absurd argument…

      • mcave77 says:

        I should have added “armed” ex-bouncer….*still smh*

      • KA says:

        When did pot make a person Superman?

        I do not think that anyone will believe that an unarmed boy with no criminal history of violence, who was additionally documented (by the defendant) as running from him, would then turn around (with no weapon), and search extensively for the person they were just running from, and become a violent manic with super strength.

        No jury will buy it. No sane person would buy it. Pot or no pot.

      • KA says:

        I also believe that the “looks suspicious” and “not right” and “on drugs” was common verbaige that GZ has used in other “black male suspect” NEN calls.

      • Xena says:

        @Mcave77. Yes. Had GZ not gotten out of his vehicle to follow Trayvon, the two would not have come into physical contact. O’Mara and West really make GZ appear stupid and hot-headed if they argue that he got out of his vehicle to follow a person with potential to be violent due to being chemically impaired. That’s more reason to stay in the vehicle.

      • racerrodig says:

        Next Fogen will amend his statements to say “Trayvon kept saying hold still so I can punch yer ass…….I see 2 of ya”

      • Jun says:



        1) is a kid
        2) Fogen is a fully developed adult
        3) Trayvon is 50 pounds less than Fogen and does not know how to fight
        4) Fogen has fought lots of people and attacked many people and threatened many people
        5) Trayvon was also allegedly on marijuana, which makes you slow, peaceful, hungry, happy
        6) Fogen had a car, a gun, and a flashlight

        but Fogen is the one with the disadvantage in a combat situation?


        How fucking stupid LOL

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Racer – I was just LMAO over Malisha’s comment above and when I came across yours – oh my, oh my. The tea almost hit the screen. 😀

        • racerrodig says:

          Ya know……Ya know… more tea…..lemonade only for you !! Seems I have a penchant for getting that reaction. When I was in HS there was this one SuperDork a year ahead of my class. Everyday the Lord made I would get up, throw my trash in the can, save my lunch bag, puff it up, and walk behind him and pop it, just so we could see the 7-UP or milk get snorted out his nose…..I tell you no lie, everyday. Well some days the WISE BBQ Chips would fly all over, but mostly fluid….it’s all in the timing.

          Picture a Fogen look alike, that never shut up, lied about everything, was despised by all and would sit at our table, which was mostly us football players…..ohhhhhhh…..POP !! Pfffttt

          He had a stupid voice that I can imitate to this day and he’d say
          “Ohh I’ll get you…douche bag !!!!”

          Even the teachers on cafeteria duty loved it.

          Ahhhhhhh, youth…..I know, I’m a bad boy….hehehehehehehe

    • Indeed…so the hungry lethargic teen (if he has smoked weed) was somehow so amped up…so this is going back to Trayvon allegedly made a bad judgement…just ignore the adult who was trained in NW an I’m sure to hear them tell it as sober as a church mouse, despite HIM slurring his words on the NEN call.

      Yuppers, good play…convince the jury Trayvon was high and I can guarantee there will be a juror or two that can give convincing testimony that being high, 1) Trayvon wouldn’t have walked anywhere and darn sure would not have started a fight. They are trying to use circumstantial evidence to say he was high BUT there is far more compelling circumstantial evidence that says he wasn’t.

      Skittles and Iced Tea intact
      The clerk doesn’t even remember Trayvon
      And weed doesn’t make you sway, that’s alcohol, clown West
      Trayvon purchased no food
      No weed smoker is going to smoke weed in the rain or smoke weed and WALK a mile and back.

      They lie!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        “No weed smoker is going to smoke weed in the rain or smoke weed and WALK a mile and back.”

        I dunno ’bout that – it’s a good excuse to be out walking for and also enjoying that while talking with a friend on the phone. And would make a kid less careful about the weird guy who was following him in the car. And would cause him to get distracted by his call and linger and not go straight home even after feeling weirded out.

        But none of that matches the tox report, which seems to show some time had passed since he last used MJ. And I can’t say I’ve ever seen anyone high on only MJ who ever picked a fight.

      • Rachael says:

        I agree – they might leisurely walk and talk to a friend on the phone, but they would eat the Skittles on the way home as well.

    • @Xena

      If I were a lawyer, the last position I would want to be in is arguing that the victim couldn’t walk straight, but was able to hit the defendant squarely on the nose.

      bwa ha ha ha ha

      • Leisa says:

        The defense files these motions so they can post them on the website. I notice they did not post Bernie’s response to the motion for sanctions. They also have not posted the statements from witness #9. Desperation.

    • @Xena

      Remember if you ever go into a store and sway…it’s probable you’re on drugs. /snark!

      O’Mara has lost his ever-loving mind! Just a few more weeks and we’ll be rid of this lying murdering child killer AND his lying grifting family.

      • Xena says:


        Remember if you ever go into a store and sway…it’s probable you’re on drugs. /snark!

        Reality check — in the days of “hot pants,” never leave the house after dark unless accompanied by a man. Rape would be blamed on the “hot pants.” Today, murder is blamed on the victim smoking pot.

        O’Mara has lost his ever-loving mind! Just a few more weeks and we’ll be rid of this lying murdering child killer AND his lying grifting family.

        Yes. The days are going by quickly. Time for GZ to shop for a larger sized suit. Hope he doesn’t sway while in the store.

      • racerrodig says:

        Every time I put my right hand into my right pocket to get out, or see if I have the exact change, I “sway” to my left slightly so my hand will fit…..that is all the “swaying” I saw of any mention on the 7 – 11 tape. Trayvon wasn’t exactly like a tree branch in a hurricane.

      • Well I swang and I swang and I swang to the left
        Pop-pop my trunk and yep yep yep…

        Love the song by Trae, Big Hawk and Fat Pat!

      • abbyj says:

        SouthernGirl, What a perfect way to describe that grubbing family: lying grifters. They take and take–and dodge responsibility–for whatever they can, and then they blame others for the difficulties they’ve brought on themselves.They feel entitled, that they actually deserve everything they can get their hands on. SG, yes. Grifters, liars, thieves, and con artists. The whole damned family. I’m still reeling from PapaZ’s recent vitriolic letter in which he blamed everyone on the planet but his moron son.

      • abbyj says:

        Hi SouthernGirl! So nice to see you, too. Your posts are really classics!

    • ay2z says:

      Yes, Xena, and the other time fogen interfered with his angry face and grab skills, he got charged with assault. He was this time, not suspicious of the guy drinking in a public establishment (against the law as underaged), but he attacked the ‘other’ guy and didn’t find the drinking person, suspicious at all..

      • Malisha says:

        OK, let me get all this straight. Fogen (a) gets distracted from his errands because someone is WALKING within his eyesight; and he (b) can’t remember the name of the third out of three streets in his neighborhood; and he (c) gets out of his car to look for an address but passes by three locations that would provide the missing information while still not providing it although he thinks it has been requested when it has NOT; and he (d) forgets that he is carrying a loaded gun and he (e) loses his cell phone by, amazingly, putting it where he doesn’t usually put it although it is still on his own person; and he (f) fails to tell a challenging intruder that he is from the NW and that he has already called the police; and he (g) cannot even use his own two hands to defend himself from punches, slams and mounting; but …

        TRAYVON is the one who is considered impaired? uh…

        Wait a minute, let me get this straight…

    • JustMe says:

      The defense motion and their mission was successful today. The “THC found in Trayvon’s blood” hit HLN/In Session air waves today.

      By fogen pursuing a potential “drugged out criminal” only shows his LACK of FEAR and how IRRATIONAL his behavior was the night he murdered Trayvon not to let another “asshole” get away.

      • JustMe says:

        Here’s a video of the Trayvon at the 711.. The only thing that’s swaying is the brain matter in West’s head. smdh

      • Malisha says:

        West was a public defender. Filing useless motions so that he could then tell the client that he did his best but the judge wouldn’t listen is par for his course and stock of his trade. SMH SMH over and over. And a tsk tsk f*ckin’ tsk. 🙄

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        At timestamp 0:34, you can see the store clerk walking the same way.

      • If Trayvon was high and in a 7/11 with $22, it would be like Disneyworld. 3bags of potato chips, a box of cookies, a slushy, 2 candy bars and some gum to hide your breath.

    • racerrodig says:

      Exactly…..and when Trayvon allegedly said “….you’re gonna die tonight mother fucker” I’ll bet the defense will say he spelled it wrong when he said it, a sure sign of drug abuse.

      So Fogen will say Trayvon said “……you’re gonna die “tonite” mother fucker”

      As stupid as this is, that’s how preposterous the defense is, and I’m betting Judge Nelson knows all about them.

      • Trained Observer says:

        West & Fogen, the dynamic musical “Tonight/Tonite” duo

        ♫•*¨*•.¸¸ ¸¸.•*¨*•♫♪

        Tonight, tonight
        It all began tonight
        I saw you and my world went A-SWAY

        Tonight, tonight
        There’s only yooou tonight
        What you are, what you do, what you say …

        Today, all day I had the feeling
        A murder would happen
        I know now I was right

        For here you are
        And what was just a world is a star

        Tonight, tonight
        The world is full of light
        With my motions all over the place

        Tonight, tonight
        The world is wild and bright
        Going mad
        Shooting farts into space


        Today, the world was just an address
        A place for me to live in
        No better than all right

        But here you are
        And what was just a world is a star

        Good night, good night
        Sleep well and when you dream
        Dream of me
        ♫•*¨*•.¸¸ ¸¸.•*¨*•♫♪

      • kllypyn says:

        i think zimmerpunk said that to trayvon just before he killed him. Remember that horrifying shriek just before he was killed.

    • Tzar says:

      was able to hit the defendant squarely on the nose.

      then mount, subdue and bring a 40lds heavier former bouncer within seconds from wearing diapers for the rest of his life. But yet he could not walk, no stand straight.

      yeah good luck with that

    • Jun says:


      That’s what happens when you listen to the Conservative Tinfoil Hat and do not want to admit it in court LOL

      So Trayvon was “swaying” and West just got off the phone with his contact to drop the bomb

      Watch next, they will claim that Trayvon got one A minus grade, and then use that as a their new story to try and smear a dead murdered kid’s name

      Yep that’s the ticket, Mr. High Moral Ground West

      • Xena says:


        That’s what happens when you listen to the Conservative Tinfoil Hat and do not want to admit it in court LOL

        Zidiots do not think about the harm they cause GZ. Their focus is to denigrate Trayvon. So, paint Trayvon as high on marijuana in effort to make GZ’s profiling “he’s on drugs or something” correct, then explain whether a reasonable person would get out of their vehicle and follow such a person, who while being chemically impaired, ran from them.

      • Jun says:

        Logically speaking, Trayvon noticed Fogen stalking him and then tried to run away from him, so, it does not sound like Trayvon was high or impaired and anyways, obviously, being high on marijuana does not give Fogen the right to stalk, chase, terrorize and kill the kid

      • racerrodig says:

        And according to Fogen, Trayvon didn’t miss once with all those MMA blows……Hmmmmmmmmm ???

        I’ll go with the “…traces…” report and the 7 – 11 clerk who stated he didn’t even remember Trayvon……because that’s what a normal shopper is……innocuous.

        Did the defense think the clerk would say “….yeah, this kid said I’m killin me an Afro – Peruvian shit head on some dope that’s armed…
        ……..for no reason tonight……I’m gonna be famous” or did he walk in, buy 2 items, pay quietly and leave????? Anyone ?

    • ay2z says:

      the new OS photos include a pic at the skateboard park that they might use to imply intoxication and balance issues. Or, it could be a simple boarding friend helping with some technique for their sport.

      They are hoping the ‘sway’ notion comes in with pics of pot plants and a gun in a black hand.

      And proof of the ever sky reaching dimensions of height alongside an older brother, and a very much smaller schoolgirl.

      No holds are barred with defending fogen.

  77. Chocolate Coated Beauty says:

    All I can do is SMMFH at Donald West!

    • Soulcatcher says:

      I just happen to have 2 of those typewriters. LOL

    • Nellie Nell says:

      His slow speech and response time to questions lead me to believe that he rolls one up and then drops a couple Visine Drops in his eyes before court!

      There will probably be more than half of the jury that has in the past and/or probably still hit the maryjane on occasions that will know how mellow and carefree the green will make you!!! If gungeon made people violent, it would not be legalized in 18 states in our great nation!

      Perhaps if the murderer would have stayed home with some good cannabis, he would have evened out his whacky brain and been too chill to go hunting for kids while talking to himself and playing god.

  78. Big Willie says:

    So Skeltor can type faster than he can talk… Amazing!

    • Big Willie says:


      So Skeltor can type bull…. faster than he can talk.

      • ay2z says:

        We know he’s not computer savy, by his own admission of limited ‘know how’ on the website end of things. Quote “I don’t know how to do that.”

        Downpayment, only 5 dollars!! Carrying charges, only 1 dollar!!

        “Leave it to Donald!”

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Faster than he can think, apparently! :]

  79. Big Willie says:


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