Zimmerman defense stumbled into money trap

Sunday, May 19, 2013

ChrisNY~Laurie said,

Why haven’t we seen any reciprocal discovery? I’d like to see what the defense has turned over to the State. Do we not get to see reciprocal discovery?

The Defense has expert witness’ that they would like to call via video conferencing at the next hearing, and filed a motion for approval. Does the Judge approve or deny this motion before the next hearing date or wait and tell them during the hearing when she gets to that motion? I haven’t even seen a motion in reply from the State yet, so maybe they have no objections to this. I don’t see how they don’t considering the defense did not name these experts, unless they did through emails or something.

Let’s not place the cart before the horse. Judge Nelson first has to decide whether to grant the defense motion for a Frye hearing. She will decide that motion at the hearing on May 28th.

I do not believe she will grant the motion because O’Mara has not made a proper showing. He needs affidavits from experts asserting that the technology/methodology used by the prosecution’s experts is not generally accepted in the relevant scientific community (i.e., audiologists). He hasn’t done that.

If she were to grant the motion, however, I do not believe she would conduct it via video conferencing. Cross examining someone on a video screen is not the same as cross examining them in person when the witness is not on his own turf with support at the ready off camera. I do not believe Bernie de la Rionda would agree to O’Mara’s request. I certainly would object if I were the prosecutor. I do not believe Judge Nelson would grant O’Mara’s request over de la Rionda’s objection.

O’Mara appears to be caught up in a money trap caused by frivolous expenditures of internet contributions and now he cannot afford experts.

Too bad, so sad.

The answer, as I have been suggesting for several months, is to attempt to get the defendant declared indigent so that the court will pay for the experts, but O’Mara and his client do not want to go there.

I suspect the reason is they do not want the internet fund shut down and turned over to the Court for reimbursement.

Greed and stupidity are quite the double whammy.

They have only themselves to blame.


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295 Responses to Zimmerman defense stumbled into money trap

  1. PiranhaMom says:


    Re: “Beg on, Papa Zim. Junior shouldn’t have told your son’s White Supremacist supporters that your children are Afro-Peruvian.”

    Actually, Zena, if Jr. & George really are Papa Zim’s bio children, they are genetically 25% Cuban + 50% Peruvian mélange.

    (If not, they are 100% Peruvian “and friends.” if they are Gladys’s sister’s kids that they adopted.)

    A whole lotta “ritmo caliente” going on …

    Ya’ think the T-baggers are gonna be hot to pour more US greenbacks into some Castro cousin’s defense (a guy who, incidentally, said he’s a registered Democrat)?

  2. ay2z says:

    LOL!! click on this
    “Friend defends George Zimmerman” and see HLN’s message on black screen that reads—

    “This Video Has Been Expired” 😉

    Finally someone has shut the Taffee up!!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Um yeah, big bad state won’t pay even though your son had his wife lie about resources when they weren’t indigent and now that they are, are NOT filing indigency.

        I’m crying big crocodile tears.

        • racerrodig says:

          Note to RZ sr. : If you’re unhappy with the State of FL…..MOVE !!

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Better yet RZ Sr, have a talk with your remaining son about his (failed) white supremacy! Obviously everyone on Trayvon’s side has paid their rent, is working and paying their bills without begging for donations for defense purposes, then spending the money on pop tarts and burgers. Not everyone is getting all slimey and dirty thinking they’re better than other people, based solely on the color of their skin.

            You want skin color Zidiots? How do any of you compare with Michael Jackson or P. Diddy? Eddie Murphy? Did these guys start out with silver spoons or did Whoopi Goldberg start from scratch? You wanna compare yourselves with Oprah? She gave everyone in her studio a car and still had enough for a hundred families to live on and she opened a school for girls in a forgotten land. What have you supremacist done lately except snatch that gun from your boys cold dead hands? Phooey! You guys need to get a life, this supremacy thing isn’t working. ;lol:

          • racerrodig says:

            Well said. There is a black couple who live next door and she is head of the coronary care dept at a major hospital and he is a big wheel in a personal locating company.

            I could go on.

      • racerrodig says:

        What a misguided crybaby. Lord love a duck as my mom would say. The defense can do anything they want but God forbid the State actually follow legal procedure.

        • Xena says:

          @racerrodig. Papa Zim wrote the following;

          “The state of Florida has unlimited resources in their totally unwarranted and malicious prosecution of George,” Robert Zimmerman writes. “I continue to be amazed by what the state of Florida considers their ‘evidence’.”

          Yeah, like GZ didn’t commit and unwarranted and malicious killing of an unarmed 17 year old. Papa Zim must be amazed by the state’s evidence because it proves GZ is a liar and convicts him. Apparently, since Papa Zim is no audio expert, he has no respect for the State’s experts, and O’Mara can’t find one to agree with GZ and his daddy.

          Beg on, Papa Zim. Junior shouldn’t have told your son’s White Supremacist supporters that your children are Afro-Peruvian.

          • racerrodig says:

            I’m thinking maybe Papa Z heard Fogen scream like that when he was abusing, er, disiplining him as a young kid. Maybe that belt across the back 30 – 40 times and all that screaming did make papi an expert. Ya just never know with this gang.

          • Xena says:


            I’m thinking maybe Papa Z heard Fogen scream like that …

            You bring up something very important. Papa Zim should be required to explain when as a teenager, GZ was being beaten to the point he was crying out help, Papa Zim heard those cries, and what Papa Zim did to help GZ.

          • racerrodig says:

            I also read that Gladass was a bit of a torture queen. With Papa being in MI I can easily see him being sadistic, or at the least very hard on them.

          • Xena says:


            I also read that Gladass was a bit of a torture queen.

            Abuse is a vicious circle. It teaches children that whatever form of abuse was used to control them, then they can use on others to control them too. A person who is controlled by physical hurt uses physical hurt on others to control them. A person controlled by emotional hurt, such as rejection and being made fun of, uses that on others in attempt to inflict emotional hurt. (Remember what GZ did to his Asian co-worker at CarMax?)

            Mama Zims’ need to make her children perfect through use of physical pain speaks volumes about how she was raised. Now we have Papa Zim saying he heard GZ scream as a teenager. Under what circumstance? That is what Papa Zim keeps secret.

          • racerrodig says:

            I’m thinking that all those skeletons in the closet have developed vocal chords……’cuz they’re screaming out now.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Xena –

            Re: “You bring up something very important. Papa Zim should be required to explain when as a teenager, GZ was being beaten to the point he was crying out help, Papa Zim heard those cries, and what Papa Zim did to help GZ.”

            That’s been Little Georgie’s complaint all along: “Mom would beat me, and Dad never came to my rescue.” (Ask Osterman for his quote.)

          • racerrodig says:

            Nothing like conflicting statements is there. Maybe mmp & I can build them a catapult so it’s easier for them to throw each other under the bus.

      • Jun says:

        Yes the people of Florida, represented by Corey in this prosecution should be totally okay with some unbalanced NW Peruvian stalking and killing a kid without having a reasonable debate regarding the matter

        According to Papa Zimernut we should just take killer’s words whenever someone murders and any prosecution subsequent is malicious

        yes, I am so sure the people of Florida will agree with Papa Zimmernut

      • Malisha says:

        Xena, I’m hoping 100 court-watchers show up for trial, all shades and skin-tone colors, and conduct themselves in a completely dignified and decorous fashion, while all wearing T-shirts that say:

        “NOT AFRO-PERUVIAN” :mrgreen:

    • Two sides to a story says:

      LOL. A single shot, arm extended?

  3. ay2z says:

    Prof wrote in ‘…. The Money Trap”

    O’Mara appears to be caught up in a money trap caused by frivolous expenditures of internet contributions and now he cannot afford experts.

    Too bad, so sad.

    The answer, as I have been suggesting for several months, is to attempt to get the defendant declared indigent so that the court will pay for the experts, but O’Mara and his client do not want to go there.

    I suspect the reason is they do not want the internet fund shut down and turned over to the Court for reimbursement.

    Greed and stupidity are quite the double whammy.

    Way back in August 2012, this was the situation of the money and some of the ‘expenses’ covered, and speculation about indingency.

    Judge Nelson isn’t likely to grant a delay based on the ‘so sad’ situation as since lasts summer, no one declared indigency for this client…. “so sad” and “too bad” what the good judge will be thinking too?

    But they can’t risk a money audit, otherwise why not go the state pay route? Oh yeah…. something Prof said about no defense…. and no experts apparent … yet, and only then, a phone call for an aleged expert’s testimony is in the budget.

  4. ay2z says:

    This is not short edited video, it’s a compilation of the audio interviews. If you want to re-listen to a lengthy audio, need the time to listen, don’t need to watch,

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Thanks ay2z, I’ve added it to my evidence pile where it can easily be found by searching for “mash up”. Or just save this link [right click and select “copy link location”, that will put the link, not the text, on your clip board, you need to paste it into a document like word pad, before your next copy overwrites it. Or google for a clip board manager which will allow you to take and manage more than one clip at a time. ]

  5. boyd says:

    I think they were standing when he got shot as well. But for different reasons.

    Fogen makes no mention of TM’s leg, thigh, chest area. If TM is mounted, any of his above listed body parts would be on top of the gun. He would have to go under the leg, etc and pull the gun out. Yet he never mentions that as an obstacle.

    The two times he describe the shooting, once in a chair, the second time standing up. And both times he extended his arms meaning TM could not be on top pounding away and be using his body weight to maintain leverage..

    A straight angle shot into the heart. He would have to also lift that gun up from waist to the heart.

    Why didn’t Fogen tell NEN he was carrying a CCW? I thought about that as well, I would not tell them.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Yes, the name of the game with gz was “concealment”, he kept everything he was doing secret because, haven been given the rules of NW, not to carry and not to patrol, gz figured he had found ways to get around that. So, he’d never go on patrol, because he knew that was against the rules. He’d never carry a weapon on patrol, because he’d never go on patrols. Instead, what he would do is walk his dog. There was no rule that said he could not carry a weapon while walking his dog and, of course, he was always free to look about while he was doing so.

      So, gz believed he had gotten pretty good at compromising and getting around the rules. So, it’s hardly a wonder that on 2/26/12 gz has a story that provides an answer, designed specifically to excuse him for violating every rule he was aware of. Right down to forgetting his gun at the appropriate time and place in the story. And who can forget him forgetting the name of the 3rd street in the neighborhood? The street that runs from the north/front gate to the east/back/rear gate where “they always get away” from? If they always get away via the rear gate, you’d think he’d remember what street the rear gate is on? Nope, instead he can remember the name of the man and the company and their address, who is in charge of the cctv’s, even has their number in his phone contacts.

      He’s got quite a head for details when it suits him, for a man suffering from ADHD [A Damned Helpful Disorder].

      • PiranhaMom says:

        @Lonnie –

        ” Nope, instead he can remember the name of the man and the company and their address, who is in charge of the CCTV’s, even has their number in his phone contacts. ”

        Nicely skewered, Lonnie!

        • racerrodig says:

          How did the CCTV cameras come to be off ?? Fogen knew they were and can we assume this conversation may have happened.

          “….um……my name is Cheorge, and um……I need the camera’s off, here’s $20.00”

          Fogen stated in one of the interviews without being asked that he knew the cameras were off and as we know had the guys name & number in his phone. Huh??????????

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            It would seem to me that gz was keeping an eye on the cctv’s for some reason. I don’t think it was because they figured into his plans, but rather he wanted to know when they were out of service, so he’d know where he could get away with his patrolling shenanigans.

      • Malisha says:

        ADHD = “A Damned Helpful Disorder” — Hilarious!

        Hey, where’s the motion for PTSD — the “Pre-Trial Salvation Disorder”?

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          I think he waived the PTSD already. The defense is left grasping for straws. The MJ distraction the expert fee distraction, the “every distraction they can think of” distraction. MOM and West remind of patients on weekend passes.

          • cielo62 says:

            “The Motion Commotion”

            Sent from my iPod

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Hahaha… Motion Commotion Motion, their whole case is nothing but commotion all whiz and no bang. Now that the Judge has a handle on what MOM is trying to do, she’ll have no trouble clearing out his wacko motions.

            As far as MOM’s motion to have the judge cram down the experts fees, it won’t work because there’s no justification for the court to take the experts property or get involved in these private negotiations.

  6. I have three questions for everyone. In the investigation drawing SPD of how the body was lying and all the stuff that fell from Trayvon and Fogen. His head was facing sidewalk/N.E. while his feet was facing building/S.W. The bullet cartridge was found on the right side of his body. Fogen in his interview with SPD was showing how he held the gun in his right hand but SPD described his holster is a left handed holster. One would think he is left handed. You would think the bullet cartridge would fall to the left side of TM’s Body if he is left handed. One would also think that when Fogen reached for his gun since the holster is left handed he would have a hard time getting it out of the holster. Suspicious yeah? Again, How in the world did that happen? Something doesn’t sound right here. In Witness 11 audio interview, you could hear the gunshot then a second noise right after where she thought it could be a 2nd gunshot. Is it possible that Trayvon was standing up when Fogen grabbed and shot him, then Trayvon falling to the ground (2nd noise), after he fell to the ground Fogen got on top of him? Also, Why didn’t Fogen tell NEN he was carrying a CCW?

    • Tzar says:

      courtesy of the awesome LLMPAPA


    • Two sides to a story says:

      It’s been long established that Fogen is left-handed and he shoots with his right hand and that his holster can be turned either way. No mystery there.

      The mystery is that he claims to have been mounted by Trayvon and claims to have been able to hold Trayvon’s arm and simultaneously unholster his weapon. And he shows how he shot Travyon with his arm EXTENDED, not at all the way he’d hold his arm had he been on the ground with Trayvon atop him.

      Sorry, no links, but you could peruse old blog entries from last year to establish this.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        PS – Thanks, Tzar – good answers in these videos.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Well I’ve got plenty of links on my evidence pile TwoSides. And yes, you have it exactly right. Osterman, the LEO who claims to have been instrumental in training gz, says that gz carries for “cross draw”. Meaning left hand to right side. gz states at one point that he grabs the gun and rotates it. Acknowledging that it was facing opposite and had to be turned before use. So that’s not a point in contest.

        What is in contest is that, he could have drawn his weapon so easily, if he was not fully in charge of his senses, as he would not be if he was really faced with a lethal attack that had already done the damage he claims. So, his gun would not have been in an easy position to get to under such terrifying circumstances.

        Add to that complicated scene, that his gun would be under his body, under his pants, under his shirt, under his jacket, with a hundred and fifty-eight pounds on top, effectively pinning his jacket to the ground. It would be like trying draw a gun from inside a straight jacket.

        Worse yet, in the given position, back to the ground, there is no access to the required angle for the shot, identified in the autopsy report. “Straight in with no angle”. You can’t do that from back to the ground, with victim being held at arms length. There will always be an angle in that position, because the limbs just cannot bend enough to prevent it.

        If the jurors get to see two actors, demonstrating the available positions, and attempting to assume the necessary positions, in an attempt to match the requirements of the autopsy report and gz’s claims, they will quickly become convinced that gz’s claims simply are not possible.

        The only explanation that need be given during the demonstration is, which positions, taken from which parts of the record, are being attempted. That’s all, let the jury take it from there and decide on their own if the actors are really unable to reach the required positions or if they are merely pretending they can’t.

  7. ay2z says:

    Tom Owen uses biometrics (computer match) vs more traditional subjective methods, experience, knowledge, listening skills, used by OS’s second expert.

    If the state does not present biometrics, for example, and uses expert opinion based on the expert’s own listening skills and subjective methods of analysis, how does this opinion fit into a Frye hearing? (ie: Dr. Reichs?) If not, the defense can’t be using the ‘phoney’ word in context of Reich’s or his opinions.

    And the defense would have no need for an expert to counter any biometrics technology? You need to do this, you’d think you would get the expert there in person for, or to, Frye.


  8. ay2z says:

    Looking back ot over a year ago, at the OS voice ID experts and the OS articles, videos. This video says enhanced, either it is Trayvon or it is fogen.

  9. LeaNder says:

    Frederick, I wonder about this motion, concerning the expert witnesses connected to the Fry hearing which suggests the intention to also add them to the witness list GZW LLL + GZW MMM

    Maybe I didn’t pay enough attention, which strictly suggests better shut up. 😉 But no matter what timing, it seems they want to add two extra witnesses to their list.

    For whatever reason, I cannot find the document on the 18th circuit court’s case files, but it may well have been entered on the Seminole County’s case docket. If not again as someone suggested once they used two lines for one document.

    I am an admitted nitwit of course but could this suggest, they try to get at least their own experts in concerning scream identification, just in case the Fry hearing is denied.

    • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

      LeaNder- I was thinking the same thing as you about those two witnesses with letters for their identification, but why list them as letters and not their names if they ate expert witnesses. Hmm

  10. ay2z says:

    21 days …….

  11. Shari says:


    I live in TX in a city close to the border of LA. I live here because my husband has a good job in LA. I really dislike it and I will never get used to the change in culture. I grew up in CA. I got a speeding ticket, yes it’s wrong to speed. In TX usually the judge will allow you to take a class if this is your first time speeding. I asked the state of LA how it goes and they said you can just talk to the DA and ask him BEFORE court. I thought that was strange but I did it. He leaves a message on my phone in a southern drawl threatening me with jail. He said there is no reason to come through the state speeding. He said he would downgrade the ticket to faulty equipment. I have never seen the inside of a jail and I was very shaken up by his message. I did some googling and it seems you may be sent to jail for failure to pay the ticket or appear in court to answer to it. I guess a ticket when you sign it is a summons to appear. Any comments?

    • Yes, signing a ticket is an acknowledgement that you have received the ticket and will appear in court on the date and time indicated on the ticket. If you do not appear, the judge will issue a bench warrant for your arrest in the amount of the maximum fine.

      • Shari says:

        Thanks for the reply. I’ll just pay it now, by credit if I have to. It sucks because school is almost out and I am signing my kids up for day camps. I didn’t like his message threatening me with jail but I was wrong for speeding. My husband said it’s a scare tactic and probably racism. I have no interest in jail, I’ll take care of it now.


        • Sounds like he offered to reduce the charge to having defective equipment and that might be an advantage for you insurance-wise because it’s not a moving violation.
          The fine is probably less also.

          This is pretty typical traffic court procedure all over the country.

          Did he offer to reduce the fine?

      • ay2z says:

        A threat like that is unnerving to anyone, add in the possibility of racism for using that unnecessary threat for a traffic ticket, can understand why you are upset about that especially.

        I got one of those ticket summons too, not racist by any stretch, but someone figured they had me for doing something because I was clearly traveling through a state a long way from home and wouldn’t be hanging around for some future court date. The cop didn’t have to investigate anything before getting a ticket paid by a foreign driver.

        They didn’t expect me to get advice before leaving the states from the border town police office some states away, use that advice to document the circumstances with my home police, then file that documented letter as a response with the county clerk where the ticket was issued. Result, the cop who wrote the ticket was asked to speak to the person who reported the infraction, and found out they lied, they admitted the infraction never occurred.

        Got my money back from the county and cleared record to boot.

      • Shari says:

        I don’t think the fine was reduced. When I called the clerk last week it was $184. On his message he said he was changing something on the ticket to say it was ineffective radar or something. The charge is still $184. I wasn’t accusing him of misconduct, I was shaken up by his message telling me if I was ticketed for speeding in LA again and there was room in jail he would make sure I was placed there. I am not a criminal, I am a mom/homemaker. I have no connection to criminality so yes I was shaken up by that. I do acknowledge my moving violation and told the officer who stopped me. He was very polite and thanked me for being polite. I told him I have no option, I am in the wrong.

        Now some people I know tell me, “Oh yeah I thought you knew to NEVER get caught speeding in LA, especially if you’re black.” I am not making this up. I am not from around here so I tend to take them at their word. I suppose the state is also hard up for money so there aren’t a lot of offers for defensive driving and such.

        Yes I am paying it today I just didn’t like his tone and message content. Jail is only a factor if I don’t appear/pay and ignore the ticket. I never intended to ignore it. I think I’m over it now. Stuff happens, if I had been following the speed limit signs (as they change when you leave TX) I would have not been stopped.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        The intimidation is disgusting. Too many states use traffic fines as income and an excuse to intimidate people. Watch out going through AZ – they are probably the masters of the entire US at doing this.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Sad but true, I’ve driven around the country quite a bit. Driving back from Atlantic City, carrying a few broke gamblers I knew back, I was stopped twice on the NJ turnpike while going 55 mph and given tickets for speeding, which I had to pay since it just didn’t make any sense to fight them from so far away (New Brunswick and Monmouth Co). If you’re black and your driving with out of state plates you’re a target, police know you’re easy pickings because you’re probably not going to fight it, if you could. Hey, I wouldn’t even bother trying to fight a ticket in Ocean County NJ, well known for it’s anti black bias. So don’t feel so bad.

          The sad truth about LE today and yesterday is, you have to choose your battles carefully, and not waste resources where there’s no win.

    • Malamiyya says:

      It sounds like the phone message you got was intended to convince out-of-state drivers to slow down while also letting them feel they’ve been cut a break. Southern bad cop/good cop-in-one. Just pay the ticket and watch your speed in Louisiana and you’ll be fine.

      • cielo62 says:

        AND be sure to pay it. Many of these southern states have reciprocal agreements to revoke or suspend your license if you don’t. (I know by experience!)

  12. ay2z says:

    And along with the Moonshadow artist, Peace Train– something good has begun,

    • abbyj says:

      ay2z, Thank you. The Moonshadow artist is always beautiful to hear.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Great performance!

      I have always loved this song.

      Now I’ve been crying lately, thinking about the world as it is.
      Why must we go on hating, why can’t we live in bliss?

      Cause out on the edge of darkness, there rides a peace train.
      Oh, peace train take this country; come take me home again.

      Oh, peace train sounding louder.
      Glide on the peace train.
      Come on now peace train.
      Yes, peace train holy roller.

      Everyone jump upon the peace train.
      Come on now, peace train

      • PiranhaMom says:

        @ yahtc –

        You asked, “Hey, I just realized that, in one of his media interviews, Robert jr ACKNOWLEDGED the “k” sound when he said that his brother had said “fu@king COLD.”

        “Do you remember which media interview it was that R jr said that?”

        What I do recall was the idiotic ‘report’ CNN put out with their own studio audio engineer deciding “coon” was “cold.”

        Hey, would anybody in his or her right mind consider a rainy February night in Florida “COLD” when, in fact, the temperature was 69 degrees Fahrenheit?

        Why don’t these idiots check the weather reports at the time of the killing? 69 degrees is NOT a cold night-time temperature, and with moisture in the air would be downright muggy.

        Just another case of “don’t bother me with the facts.”

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I’m so glad he returned to his beautiful music – it’s not in conflict with his spirituality.

  13. ay2z says:

    Say, why haven’t we seen the cell phone tower map and pings for Trayvon’s phone? The defense made a big point of saying they found that ‘report’ during the April 30 hearing, but don’t remember how, if at all, they fit that into the discovery sanctions issue.

    Emperors clothes…. like their defense…. lots of hype and parading and dancing around but nothing there….

  14. kllypyn says:

    A hypothetical question which i have the asked the Zimmerpukes numerous times and they have refused to answer,they instead resort to name calling and picking on Trayvon and his family. Does anyone truly believe TRAYVON BENJAMIN MARTIN A KID WHO WEIGHED 158LBS SOAKING WET was a serious threat to Zimmerpunk and was physically capable of doing the things zimmerpunk claims to a 208lb former bouncer by him self without a weapon or help?

    BTW from a mounted position it would have been impossible to repeatedly slam his head into the sidewalk trayvon would not have had enough leverage. Especially sense Zimmerpunk was not disabled in anyway and was fully capable of defending himself with out a weapon.

    • Malisha says:

      Oh the notion that Fogen lay there without even moving his hands until he grabbed his “the” gun out of his tush pocket and killed Trayvon Martin is insane. Shimmy? Why not bring your two hands together and bonk your attacker in the face? Why not jab at his chest with your hands and throw him off your so his “mounted” position tumbled? Why not bring your knees up and kick him in the back, and then swipe him off you easily with your right arm while you rolled over to the left? ridiculous!

      The picture of a helpless AfroPeruvian on his back yelling “Help me Help me” and shimmying is just laughable.

      Fogen shot Trayvon Martin in a psychologically impaired rage, not in self-defense. He did it with ill will and a deee-praved mind.

      • Rachael says:

        Absolutely. He may not have actually intended to shoot him initially, but from the start he made it clear this one wasn’t going to get away. And he didn’t.

      • manberk says:

        @malisha Because he had a gun in his hands?

        I’d like to know how he sat up and moved all over the lawn without using his hands and arms as leverage (since they were holding TMs hands)? Whats he a caterpillar?

    • boyd says:

      from the time he says trayvon was mounted on top to the shooting , i would pay money to see that re-enactment.

  15. racerrodig says:

    To begin with “staring” means at one object…..FogenPhoole says
    “…staring around…” which is astoundingly stupid. “…looking around…” Fogen….Trayvon would be “looking around” which needless to say is filed under “Normal Behavior”

    His Freudian slip about his wife is a bit of a problem for him, that’s for sure. Why is it he didn’t say to the effect “…..see, my wife was at HER dad’s having dinner…” which is her claim.

    And what about those mentored kids…..after all, it was Sunday.

    Duhhhhhh, my name is Fogen and uhhhhhhhh I have so many versions I just can’t ummmmmm keep them all straight.

    • kllypyn says:

      Every one looks around as they walk it’s called being aware of your surroundings. I have never seen anyone walk while just looking straight ahead that’s just not normal behavior.

      • racerrodig says:

        Exactly. If I saw someone that did not look around while walking, then I’d be worried. Someone looking about while walking….seems pretty normal to any of us in the real world.

      • disappointed says:

        I never understood why he mentioned her at all. If she has been gone all evening for dinner, why mention her? He has a way of opening his mouth and letting shi! fly out of it. I need to rethink my wardrobe, walking in the rain, looking around and any other idiotic comment he made. Apparently there is a following of his kind and I would prefer not to be chased by some strange man with a gun. For walking in the rain and looking about.
        It is my belief that Z grabbed Trayvon and he dropped his cell phone. I believe the chase was on,Trayvon ran from Z. Z probably ran into a tree and hurt his nose. Trayvon probably kept jerking away or trying to get away, I am sad to say I do not think Trayvon hit him one time. I think at some point they both fell (Z got booboo on his head) and T got on top and tried to hold his arms down because of “THE GUN” and we all know what happened then.

      • Xena says:


        Every one looks around as they walk it’s called being aware of your surroundings.

        Yes, and if you’re alone and it’s dark outside and you’re being followed by someone in a vehicle, you look around to see if there is any escape or someone else where you might get their attention.

      • Rachael says:

        Especially if you are on the phone with headphones.

        • Xena says:

          @Rachael. I couldn’t find your comment where you said you wanted someone to put together a video of GZ’s smirks and the portion of the interview where he said “That doesn’t even sound like me.”

          But, here ’tis.

      • Rachael says:

        Thank you!!!!! I love it!

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Great video, Xena!

        Even gz knew that the very desperate cry for help was not him. That is quite an admission of guilt. He was caught off guard at that interview because he had absolutely NO idea that Trayvon’s
        cry for help was recorded in W11’s 911 call. Here gz reveals the truth because he had no time to prepare a false tale.

        Earlier in that same interview, when his NEN call was played to him and he was questioned by Serino about the “fu@king xxxx”, gz was more prepared to say that he had said “punks”.

        Well, “unks” does not rhyme with “oons” which is the vowel sound clearly discernible.

        Hey, I just realized that, in one of his media interviews, Robertjr ACKNOWLEDGED the “k” sound when he said that his brother had said “fu@king COLD.”

        Do you remember which media interview it was that R jr said that?

        • Xena says:


          Do you remember which media interview it was that R jr said that?

          It was early on before GZ was arrested. Don’t remember the interview because I wasn’t watching closely until after GZ’s arrest.

      • ay2z says:

        Xena, thanks for the video, good suggestion, Rachel. fogen was caught off guard on that one, “No” to Serino’s question, “hear that voice in the background?”

        He heard the voice in the recording, but it caught him off guard and he did not want to admit hearing his victim he heard scream like that over and over. ‘No.’ was his simple way out of answering in the moment, giving himself time to think, then admits hearing it but he still doesn’t have the nerve to say ‘yes’, I hear myself.

        Later he fixes that as he makes Trayvon’s ‘high pitched tremulous shrieks, his own.

        Got to admit, he plays the cool character through this, not admitting anything, not even breaking down with a little lip tremble as he lied and heard his victim’s pleading screams without so much as a lip tremble, not for killing a child, not fo killing a teen ager, not for killing another human being who he knew he heard before, plead for his life.

        Cold blood, he has.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Veddy cool, Xena. You and LLMPapa and Trent are the best!

        • Xena says:

          @Two sides.

          You and LLMPapa and Trent are the best!

          I’m honored, but can’t hold a candle to LLMPapa. I love Trent’s talent. If I did videos talking to the camera, it would be very boring.

      • Rachael says:

        That was really good incorporating the tattoo in there and everything. And of course the song is perfect.

        • Xena says:

          @Rachael. You inspired it. Thank you.

        • Xena says:

          It was interesting seeing the transformation GZ has gone through in a year. On the night he killed Trayvon, he looked like a mean, mad, gang banger. He had a small smile on his mug shot when arrested. Then he appeared in court in shackles, looking scared. When he appeared at the first bond hearing, he was smirking, clean shaven. That same demeanor was demonstrated when he appeared on Hannity’s. Then things went downhill for him. It’s not just the weight. His eyes are filled with fear and his face is tight with anger.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Good to see he’s getting ready to go into the human waste disposal dump, where he belongs.

          • Xena says:

            @Lonnie Starr. I hope that Papa and Mama Zim and Junior put some money together and buy GZ a new suit for trial. I’m tired of seeing him in the same sport’s jacket and, it’s getting too small for him too.

          • cielo62 says:

            Xena~ And maybe a solid colored shirt, too. Those clashing stripes have GOT to go!

          • Xena says:


            Xena~ And maybe a solid colored shirt, too. Those clashing stripes have GOT to go!

            LOL! When GZ stood in court to answer Judge Nelson’s questions, either his shirt was too small and couldn’t be buttoned at the bottom, or he had lost a button.

            The stripes were intended to make him look slimmer. 🙂

          • racerrodig says:

            Pretty hard to make a guy with 3 chins and 2 sets of cheeks look slim(er). And compared to what…….a Brontosaurus ??

          • cielo62 says:

            Racer- 1. No such thing as a brontosaurus. It was made up in order to be “1st” with the apatosaurus. 2. A stegosaurus would be better; much fatter with a walnut sized brain in his head and another smaller one in its tail. Isn’t paleontology fun? 😉

            Sent from my iPod

          • racerrodig says:

            You’re killing me !! How come I’m wrong on this so often.

            But you do agree he has 2 sets of cheeks however.

          • cielo62 says:

            Racer- even with two sets of cheeks his cumulative brain mass is minuscule.

            Sent from my iPod

          • racerrodig says:

            If I used the expressions we used on morons like Fogen from when we were in school, the Professor would ban me…or get Xena to make me stand in the corner.

            This guy has the brain power of a gnat.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Racer!!!! What have gnats ever done to you that you must insult their intelligence? 😆

          • racerrodig says:

            Well, when it starts to get hot, like today, they swarm at the end of the driveway apron by the thousands. I have 2 solutions. 1 I get out my bug fogger and open fire with it and they stay right there and suck up every last cloud of killer. 10 minutes later I sweep them up.
            2 I get out the best bug killer known to man Carburetor Cleaner and spray away…..then sweep ’em up 10 minutes later. It’s just hard finding that many small coffins. I never saw bugs so stupid en mas that just buzzed there and took it. So I liken gnats to Fogens brainless ilk.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Perhaps something white with polka dots and size 28 shoes to match? 😆

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            I doubt the family is very concerned about gz, it seems to me they were more interested in his “welfare” after the 300k came in. Suddenly the estranged family came rallying to his side. I’m pretty sure his mom and dad had enough of him, they had probably stopped giving him rent and grocery money. I’d guess that for some time at least, he was taking meals over at Shellie’s parents home, until they too had enough of him. So there he was on a Sunday night with no food, no money, behind in rent and car payments, credit maxxed out, and young blacks happily traipsing through the neighborhood without a care. If that isn’t enough to make a white supremacist angry, I don’t know what will.

            Remember, he knew that the “inferior” blacks were paying their rent, feeding and clothing themselves and keeping up their car payments. The “superior” white guy, was a failure at all and going to go to bed hungry that night, if he didn’t do something.

            So, if anything, you should just sit back and enjoy watching the “superior” white guy [who is actually an afro-peruvian] grow out of his cloths and because his friends, family and supporter lack any real concern for him, they leave him to appear in court in ill fitting clothes. It tells us a story about their humanity.

          • racerrodig says:

            To be honest, I hope when the trial starts he needs a piece of rope for a belt because his belt ran out of room for new holes, his shirt needs those elastic button extenders and his shirt keeps popping out of his pants…….a true image of who he really is. I hope his pants become floods and he goofs and wears one blue and one brown sock……..The jury will be thinking “Who dressed this guy, Happy the Clown”

          • Xena says:


            I hope his pants become floods and he goofs and wears one blue and one brown sock……..

            My jaw dropped when reading this. This is why — I and another person were discussing in email how we believe Trayvon was a practical joker, and it would not surprise us if GZ, O’Mara and/or West all came to court in mismatched socks, via Trayvon’s spirit playing jokes on them.

          • racerrodig says:

            I’ll add I can see Trayvon and St. Peter looking at them, laughing in full throat and St. Pete says “Good one !!!! I have to St. Paul about this one……Yoooooooo Paulie !! ” Not to mention St. Mary having such a great sense of humor, what with having to endure that Immaculate Conception thing…..just sayin’ (Lord, don’t strike me down)

          • PiranhaMom says:


            With fogen’s exacerbated IBS problems, he’ll need to find some sumo-sized Depends to keep from flooding those size-48 pants. Sad, indeed.

            Isn’t that what Jr. always worried about? Having to take care of his Ban Bro in diapers?

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Hahaha… Don’t expect MOM to bail him out either, MOM is probably already thoroughly disgusted that he’s going deeper and deeper into the hole again. Worse yet, there’s still that security lawsuit outstanding and there may be an NBC “slap-back” or at least court costs and expenses when gz loses that one.

            gz in rags and tatters will turn any supremacist juror off. They’d much rather think of a failure as an Afro-Peruvian. 😆

          • Xena says:

            @Lonnie Starr

            Suddenly the estranged family came rallying to his side.

            That shows the Zimmermans’ tendency to abuse power. Their rallying to GZ’s side was not to support GZ but rather, to continue their belief that they have the ability to impress those in authority to do what they want.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Yep, iirc, during those first 46 days I don’t remember a single family member stepping forward. It was all a Bill Lee and Wolfinger show, with Osterman and “Rent-a-Friend” with Tank Taaffe pulling up the rear. Then the money came pouring in before the first bond hearing, where gz lied to conceal his new found wealth. When word of the money got out, suddenly his estranged family became concerned and rallied to his side. It was their “help” that destroyed gz’s suitability with the gun crowd and the race crowd was being torn by the confusion over gz’s race. In short, gz and his family “eFFed” everything up. 😆

          • cielo62 says:

            Xena~ and his head is full of mood deadening drugs.

      • Tzar says:

        That was awesome Xena!

      • towerflower says:

        Nice video Xena.

      • LLMPapa says:

        Xena says:
        May 20, 2013 at 9:49 am

        I’m honored, but can’t hold a candle to LLMPapa.

        Not a candle for sure. You’ve got a flame thrower going, my friend.

        I’m very, very impressed with your subject selection, background music, and story presentations. Your work is the real deal.

        Keep it up!

      • Xena says:

        @cielo. For some reason, email notifications stopped. I’m threading through to catch-up.

      • Xena says:

        @LLMPapa. I’m so honored!!! Thank you. You’re my video hero. (tears)

  16. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    I had forgotten about gz’s “to see who else…” comment:

    • Dennis says:

      Am I hearing things or did he say “I left the store with my wife”. Sounds like he is admitting there was an accessory in the car with him.

      • ay2z says:

        I didn’t hear that, and I got the impression that he was about to repeat something he said previously to someone but caught himself, about his wife ‘is’.

        We know he said his wife was afraid of the rising crime in the neighborhood, and we have heard her in the background of calls to police, she was afraid he would go out after some who ‘cut between houses’ when she reported that fact to him in the background. (I think the couple might have been in the car for at least one of these calls because from their home, they could not see the back entrance)

    • Tzar says:

      2 more things
      1. “do you think I am crazy here?”
      2. One of Trayvon’s “help me” utterances is short
      it is the only intelligible screams that is short, all the other ones are drawn out, even the “get offfffffff” is uttered in hopes of alarming those within earshot of his plight as well as letting his assailant know that he wants to be released. This is important to me. long screams are uttered in hopes of being heard, their elongation defines “screaming”. The short “help me” is not suited for that. In listening to it, I sense that

      a)Trayvon can see the person he is begging to help him (th desperation in his tone is palpable)
      b)He is completely restricted from escaping
      c)He has long been held at gunpoint by this time.

      Perhaps this is another piece of role reversal by the killer and it was Trayvon who asked john for help when he was out in the backyard.

      PS: I still believe the killer had help restraining him, even if momentarily.

      • FactsFirst says:

        “Perhaps this is another piece of role reversal by the killer and it was Trayvon who asked john for help when he was out in the backyard”

        Wow… I never thought about that one and I over think everything… That makes a hell of alot of sense..

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        That would explain the mystery of why Trayvon never even bothered to use his own hands, not even for defense. Obviously, if someone grabs you by the clothing, the reflexive reaction is to grab hold of that hand and try to remove it. In the rain with skin constantly flaking off, some dna would have been found under Trayvon’s nails, but it isn’t there. Meaning that Trayvon never even used his hands.

        The only thing that renders one’s hands as useless for defense is, if they are under attack by more than one attacker. In which case it’s wiser to save the energy in hope an opportunity to escape will appear. Since it’s otherwise useless to resist one’s captor, if there’s an assistant nearby ready to take control again or undermine any defensive effort.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        So then… John would tell a MMA fairytale to get out of being complicit in the murder of his neighbor’s guest? And then revise it when he skated too close to perjury?

        Trayvon had been screaming for help for a while (I don’t know how long, but enough time for W11 to react, get the phone, dial 911, and await the dispatcher’s answer), and W11 reported to FDLE of hearing a few guys yelling.

      • aussie says:

        He may not have been at gunpoint, just had his arm twisted hard up behind him.

        On the other hand, he may have been. And John may have seen it. And his “stop, I’m calling 911” might have meant, hang on, no need to shoot, I’ll get the cops here for you, just hang on to him a bit ….. If he did see the gun, I do hope he’s not had a full night’s sleep since.

      • Two sides to a story says:


        • Lonnie Starr says:

          We keep forgetting that DD’s testimony says that gz met Trayvon with an angry voice. That anger in gz’s voice shows that gz was the aggressor AGAIN, meaning gz’s aggression, was a continuing thing. It never abated, even when they were face to face and in physical contact, gz was still exhibiting anger, not fear, not surprise, and definitely not injury.

          gz’s attempt to move the confrontational meeting to the north, at the tee, also places the time too early for it to have happened there, because both parties would still have been on their phones at that time.

          Oh, before I forget, any good videos or posts I should have links to please don’t hesitate to pass them along. Either by commenting here or on my evidence pile. Now that it’s getting closer to trial, I’m looking for things that help bring newcomers up to speed on the case. Thanks.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      I just picked up on something else… Get this. He says: “I passed him and he kept looking around…” Is this what you do while you’re driving? Keep your head turned and focused on someone walking behind you? In the rain yet? I mean, notice the detail of what Trayvon is doing that gz has supposedly captured. You’d have to be stopped and staring Trayvon in the eyes to pick up such detail.

      gz tells stories without realizing that to obtain the information he’s giving out, he had to be able to do and see certain things from certain positions. Here, gz has passed Trayvon, and yet he’s going to tell us exactly what Trayvon was looking for or at.

      • Lynn says:

        Not to mention those details like the photo button he saw on Trayvon. GZ was able to get such accurate details like this as he 1)was turning that corner near FT’s place, 2)stared him down as he drove down a narrow road with cars parked in the roadway looking in your rearview mirror while managing to not hit a parked car, and 3)while it was dark and raining! He could describe the button and the gray hoodie but NOT anything from the waist down. Everyone knows that cat-burglar thugs wear beige khakis and white shoes!

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Yes Lynn, exactly, gz is such a mess. He observes and remembers many trivial details over a very long period of time, But, when it comes to answering why his supposed memory is working out of order. Why is he seeing things he should not be seeing, remembering things he should not be remembering, and yet forgetting things he should remember and failing to see things right in front of his face, he claims ADHD [A Damned Helpful Disorder] to get him out of the fix.

  17. Trained Observer says:

    Fogen should be counting his lucky stars he didn’t get nailed with M1 … it seems the exceedingly unpopular Republican Florida Gov. Rick Scott is attempting to rehab his image by speeding up the death warrant process.


    • Dennis says:

      Florida is about as corrupt as they come. Only an evil mind like Rick Scott would execute three people to improve public relations and his approval rating. Jeb Bush ran Florida for a bit, that is all I have to say…

      • Trained Observer says:

        Given how Fogen and O’Mara like basking in limelight to gin up their begsite fundraising, scheduling for Florida’s executions (May 29, June 12, and June 24) is an unfortunate distraction, I can hear Fogen squealing “But what about meeeee!?!”

      • Two sides to a story says:

        His bro, W, seemed mighty proud of the executions in Texas.

    • abbyj says:

      @twosides, Yes, W was mighty proud of his execution record. Remember how he mocked a woman scheduled to die? He waved his fingers in the air and cried, “Oooooh, pleeeease don’t kill me! Pleeeease don’t kill me!” Then he boasted that he “Slep’ like a baby” when she was executed. Ahh. Those Bushes. Proud fellas.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Now some Bush shrubs are running for office here and there. Time to stock up on Round-Up.

  18. Dennis says:

    Even if O’Mara declares Fogen to be indigent, the Court should not grant his request. Over $200,000 donated to Fogen. Barely any of it to my knowledge went toward his legal defense. The Court should not be forced to pay for his defense because he is an idiot that spent all of his chips. Fogen was not indigent at the bond hearing and thus should not be declared indigent now. He does not deserve assistance for his defense just because he already tried to manipulate the Court into believing he was indigent. He thought he could have the Court pay for everything while he stores a slush fund for the day he plans to flee before his conviction. The public already has to fund this ridiculous circus of a murder trial.

    • abbyj says:

      @Dennis, It’s true that the cth and their kind donated lavishly to fogen in those early months (esp. prior to the Hannity interview). Some calculations I’ve read put the total amount at slightly above $400,000–essentially a windfall of about half a million. What we don’t have is an accounting of how it was spent. We can guess from what we were told (security teams, cars, paying off credit cards, paying off sister’s car, squandered on self & spouse, etc.).

      Nearly half a million is a ton of money. Does all this still add up to half a million? Your comment makes me wonder whether fogen and the Good Wife may have stashed away a significant chunk of the loot in hopes of a get-away. There were major shenanigans with the passport and movement of monies. Wonder if fogen has it hidden away. Any thoughts on this?

      • aussie says:

        $100,000 came out for the bail bondsman, and that’s his fee they’ll never be getting back. Now if they’d not told lies, maybe they’d have been allowed to keep the lower bail….. so greed cost them that 100 big ones.

        There could be enough stashed away to get out of the country,but nothing left to live on. They don’t know how to work. So, where could they run?

  19. kllypyn says:

    The Zimmerpukes continue to harp on the fact that Trayvon once played football. He was very good at it actually who knows what might have been had he kept playing. But back to my point. They even go so far to say he played high school football and was used to tackling bigger guys.

    He stopped playing football when he was 12 or 13 years old. Tracy said he just didn’t want to play any more. But he still helped out on the field and the concession stand. Now last time i checked !2 and 13 year old’s do not tackle 200lb guys they tackle other 12 0r 13 year old’s. The average 12 year old weighs 70 or 80 lbs.Trayvon played no sports at all in high school.

    • texad says:

      Woke up thinking about Trayvon Martin today. A just turned 17 year old teen-identified by Florida law as a MINOR CHILD. He was a teen who made typical teenage mistakes but never got a chance to grow up (and out of them) because GZ thought he looked suspicious because he was “skipping” in the rain. And he thought he looked suspicious because he had on a hoodie.

      Trayvon could have been an engineer because his mom said he could take anything apart and put it back together again. He probably sometimes carried a screwdriver with him because he was a teenage Mr. fix-it. The man who killed him, on the other hand, carried a 9mm everywhere he went. Trayvon could have been an airplane pilot because he expressed an early interest in flying, and in fact was in a program for aspiring pilots. The man who killed him, on the other hand, wanted to be a police officer but would never be one because of his criminal past. He wanted to be a judge but could not pass even the most introductory criminal justice classes.

      Trayvon was loved by his parents and friends and many of us who have fought for justice in his name each and every day since February 26, 2012. In this fight the call for justice is tempered with words of love for a teen we never met.. The killer of Trayvon has supporters also, and they speak only words of hatred, racism, bigotry, and untruthfulness-the likes of which haven’t been seen in America since the 1950’s. Trayvon’s supporters do not hide who they are. His killer’s supporters hide behind a computer screen.

      The killer was a 28 year old failure when he murdered a just turned 17 year old teen. He could not pay his rent, he was failing his college courses, he was on all kinds of mood altering drugs, his friends probably thought of him as a joke, and his family did not speak to him. He was going nowhere fast. He will continue to be stuck in the hell he has created for himself because there is no God in the world who will bless anyone who deliberately kills a child and lies about what he did and why he did it.

      Trayvon Martin’s life was just beginning. He was most likely realizing that his childish antics would not be tolerated by his parents, as they were united in their tough love stance about his problems in school. He had probably decided no more games-he was going to do better and be better so his dream of flying airplanes would be realized.

      He would not have been the first Black teen who desired to fly airplanes. The Tuskegee Airmen come to mind. And a young man named Kevin Dukes – who also had that dream and for a few years lived his dream. And tragically died doing what he loved to do-fly among the clouds.


      I hope he and Trayvon are friends now. And that they spend a lot of times flying among the clouds. RIP to them both.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      • Dennis says:

        I personally like going on the facebook profiles of people that leave hateful comments. I can leave a post of their racist comments on their Wall so that all of their friends and family know how much of a piece of crap they are.

        • racerrodig says:

          I don’t do FaceBook, but that’s a good one !! In fact, tell ’em racerrodig says the same thing….

      • racerrodig says:

        Well said….to think that such a failure caused so much heartache…

      • kllypyn says:

        Texad That was the most beautiful post i’ve ever read here. I hope Trayvon’s parents read it.

      • ay2z says:

        Thank you for posting this, I can’t remember seeing a KOMO report on this.

        I have personal diaries of a WW2 pilot and he talked about how much he loved flying. He would have loved to have a young man like Trayvon in his youthful cadets.

        This is part one of the Tuskeegee airmen and their struggles against racism at home. Three words at the end of this clip about the racism in the army air corps — “spiteful and mean, and RABID in their segregation theories”.

        (those three words fit the Trayvon haters who have decided the innocence of a killer based on their racism, nothing more)

      • Xena says:

        @texad. That brought tears to my eyes. Thank you for sharing it. Justice for Trayvon!

      • Rachael says:

        I’ve been out all day with the grandkids so I’m just now reading this. This is beautiful. Thank you.

  20. Michael Stewart says:

    Back when the coffer was overflowing, lead counsel had an open and shut SYG defense. So why not tap the defense fund for $40,000 right out of the gate? Makes sense to me. And the cost of employing expert witnesses would be a superfluous expenditure when the case will never go to trial anyway.


    What I want to know is how much money has been wasted incrementally up-sizing the defendant’s body armor? There appears to be a direct correlation between the dwindling defense fund and his rapidly expanding girth.

    As always, you’re the best Prof!

  21. bettykath says:

    I’m not sure that MOM is to receive full blame for the money problem. He took the job pro bono. The money that came in to the web site was fogen’s to use as he saw fit. fogen believed that cell phones, cable, outlandish security etc.etc. were all more important that his defense. MOM could have talked until he was blue in the face but if fogen wanted to spend the money on other stuff, there wasn’t much MOM could do about it. He somehow needed to get fogen to have some understanding of just how expensive his defense would be. He obviously failed. I’m surprised he managed to get as much as he did.

    MOM really needed someone who could have looked at the forensics and helped to determine what experts were needed and to find them. Even Knox might have been a help in determining which experts were needed and who they might be, but I’m not sure Knox would have seen beyond himself as the needed expert/s. Actually, for 10 bucks he could have had Knox’s “expertise”. He should have read it, all of it, including, especially including, all the notes.

    I think the best MOM can do is try for a hung jury with a racist who manages to get through and spin it as a win, which it would be.

    • Dennis says:

      I agree. The money was in Fogen and Shellie’s control. From a legal standpoint, it was Fogen’s money. Isn’t it illegal to start a fundraiser and not spend the money on what you told the donors it was for? I’ve been hearing sick cases involving people faking cancer to receive money for who knows what. To my knowledge they are in legal trouble now.

      • bettykath says:

        iirc, fogen said the money was for his defense and living expenses. His priority was paying off debt, living expenses and security. He thought he didn’t need it for defense b/c it was obvious that it was self-defense (in his mind) or he expected his notoriety to keep the money coming in or he was going to skip and there would be no need for a defense. Not sure option he was working with. Maybe each one in turn.

      • racerrodig says:

        Just a few weeks ago in NJ a lady was convicted of just that. She said she was dying of cancer, had no insurance, had friends hold fundraisers and got caught. I forget how many years she got, but she has a pretty hefty fine.

  22. Lonnie Starr says:

    The defense team is laughable, as time goes on they keep surrendering ground and they keep coloring these surrenders as ‘strategic”. Soon, backed up to the cliff, they’ll take a “strategic” plunge over the edge and we’re supposed to believe that they jumped from a position of strength. 😆

    • racerrodig says:

      They have the same strategy as Hitler did during his last days….it’s all in the mind. But then again, we really don’t mind……after all, they are all self inflicted problems.

    • colin black says:

      What would that entail?
      Aguilty plea to MURDER ONE on day one?

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Yeah, that’s the ticket, I can hear the press conference now:

        O’Mara: Our detractors said that we could not get the prosecutor to deal, because of the quantity of evidence against us, well we proved the naysayers wrong again. The defense is pleased to announce that the defendant will never be convicted of the spurious murder 2 charge, because we’ve successfully negotiated it off the table. It was a challenging case, I’ll agree, but we’ve finally forced the prosecutor to accept a plea bargain where gz will triumphantly plead guilty to murder one! We would like to take this opportunity to thank all of our many supporters without whom this victory would not have been possible. yikes =|:-O}

      • Tzar says:

        @ Lonnie

    • Malisha says:

      Well SAID Lonnie Starr. That says it precisely.

      It will be one of those cartoon leaps, too, where the toon keeps his feet running and running and then doesn’t fall until he LOOKS DOWN and realizes he’s in mid-air! 🙄

      • racerrodig says:

        They have as good a game plan as punting on 1st down.

        Does the term “4th and forever” mean anything to those Silly Zidiots.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Yeppers, the “Charlie Coyote System” hahaha… I can see the new law management system toppling over and crushing O’Mara, egads!

  23. Judy75201 says:

    My birthday is June 10. I’ve been grinning about that since the date was first announced.

    • You be Gemini. Mercury rules Gemini.

      Colin and I be Cancer. Moon rules Cancer.

      My Rising Sign is Scorpio. Pluto rules my nativity.

      The ruler of the Ascendant (Rising Sign) rules the natal chart (nativity).

      • Judy75201 says:

        All I know for sure is that my life seems to have been a “Mercury in retrograde” train wreck sometimes. That’s why I used to read more than one horoscope per day until I found a good one lol.

      • Soulcatcher says:

        All righty then…..My grandson was born April 2nd, and his name is Moonshadow. I don’t know much about astrology, but I can tell you Moonshadow thinks he’s the big chief in charge, and he makes the rules. I guess it’s time to let him know, when he see’s my hand rising, that’s a sign. LOL

        • He is an Aries, a cardinal fire sign that is the most action-oriented sign in the Zodiac. They find out who they are by discovering their limitations through trial and error. It’s a struggle for them to learn to think before they leap.

        • racerrodig says:

          That’s a cool name, Remember this song ??

        • Xena says:


          My grandson was born April 2nd, …

          Aries are the baby of the Zodiac. As long as they get their needs and wants, they are easy folks to get along with. It’s when they don’t get what they want …. LOL!!!

      • ay2z says:

        Diana Krall and John Clayton, jazz version of Fly Me to the Moon

    • kllypyn says:

      That’s also my nephews birthday.

    • Bill Taylor says:

      my father’s birthday was also june 10, 1921………..

  24. colin black says:

    Its my Birthday June 24 so pencil that in as trial start day.
    But forget my Birthday I do an nothing makes me happier if other peolpe espesialy my better half forgets it.

    As often happens but she does remeber but only a couple of days later.

    She will useally twig because Im smileing to much an say .
    Shit it was your birthday last friay wasnt it?
    Her way is to start letting you know months in advance that her birthdays gettin near?

  25. colin black says:

    I disagree the Defense have stummbled into a money pit.

    They have dived into one eyes wide open an fully compis menntis.

    When you have a client whom is a wlaking money pit.

    You sit him down an say NO.

    Bad foggage .

    You cannot allow him to dictate how why an when it will be spent.

    Trunkmom was fsr more hated the foggage she stayed at her moms

    An her only defence from bullets on her daily day long trips to Baez office was an umbrella.

    So knowing there client an his Spouce apeared to have a constant history as dippshits with there finances.

    They allowed foggage unfettered accdess to the money .

    Knowing he had missued it already to clear his debts hire fancy cars an upgrage his confiscated cal tech to a cop killer more lethal weapon.

    Most of qtr million dollars poof gone on?

    Security not necesery.

    Liveing expensies cant stay with his beloved sis?
    Mom an Pop?
    His big Bro

    Seems not only he but his entire family have to hide?
    Cindy an George never hid .In fact the opposite stuck there face to any camra or mike with in range.

    Would go out an hose protesters an threaten them with a hammer.

    Certainly didnt hide or waste money on security unless it was pro bono.
    Or say they got there house remodelled as payment for an interveiw incudeing a state of the art cctv monitering system an about 15 cameras covering every room inside.
    An angle outside.
    Gratis never spent a penny.

    But could honestly say they received no MONEY for interveiw.

    So in essance i m o the only reason to hide is because of fear an shame broughton by guilty knowlage.

    Guilty knowlage there sons a bad seed an they knew his guilt as soon as they heard.

    Similar to the anthill mob in Orlando they did everything to try an convice the world there child was not guilty of murder.

    But both knew different the ants were brazzen in your face give me money.

    The zimmstreetgang are not brazen apart from lavander junio zeemetea whom craves the lime light like any good Drag Queen would.
    The rest though want your money as because they thought.

    Geez if there giveing money to that dolt imbicelic nassty son of ours .
    They will give it to anyone ….quick set up a begging cash site.
    Its the only way we might ever get a return on our retard addopted entitled ball an chain son.

    Must have been mad when he found out the rent money an stay away money wasnt even being paid to the land lord by foggagge.

    So they pretend to hide an cash in probably bought a camper van an seeing the sights cross country.

    Well they best make hay whilst the sun shines becuase what little support they have will vanish like a morning fog
    After the jury returns a GUILTY VERDICT…………………..

    • Trained Observer says:

      Colin — I personally would spell dipshits, as per the Fogens, with just one “p,” but other than that, RIGHT ON.

      P.S. Have to laugh at the specter of Gladass and Boobles seeing the USA in their Chevrolet (does anyone remember Dinah Shore?) pulling a pop-up trailer behind.

      • racerrodig says:

        “P.S. Have to laugh at the specter of Gladass and Boobles seeing the USA in their Chevrolet (does anyone remember Dinah Shore?) pulling a pop-up trailer behind.

        I believe Robbie the Racist has a flat tire on his house….and a burned out tail light.

    • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

      Colin…you make a good point about how the most hated woman in America was not in hiding and staying at her parents house. Fogen could stay with family and have a security system installed. This elaborate security, secret location BS is for his entertainment only.

      Why is Junior not afraid to go out and about? He goes to the beach, NY and anywhere that will have him. Nothing has happened to him. It’s all part of the money scam that they have going on. And Fogen can put on some shades a hat and go jog or workout, so they should stop blaming his weight gain on being cooped up. IMO it’s from his own laziness and med changes…when you stop taking Adderall you gain weight and many psychotropic drugs will make you gain weight.

      • Bill Taylor says:

        there is no way anybody would try to harm fogen, the entire security thing is a FARCE of the highest order…..NOT ONE valid threat to fogen or his family has been reported to police!

    • trina cosbie says:

      TRUNKMOM!!!!………BWHAHAHAHA!!!……good one!

  26. Ty Flair says:

    The trail starts June 10,will the jury already been pick by then. How long will it take to pick a jury.

    • No, the jury selection process will start June 10th with the prospective jurors reporting for jury duty and filling out the questionnaires. Could take a couple of weeks to pick the jury.

      • colin black says:

        Thats what Ive always thought trial proper wont start till late June even early July.

      • Nellie Nell says:

        Will the selection process be televised too? If the jury is sequestered as the defense team requested, how will that work? Will the ruling on jury sequestering be made on 5.28.13?

        LOL My questions are out of order, but it is early in the morning!

        • I believe Judge Nelson has already decided to sequester the jury. I believe that announcement was made after the chambers conference following the last hearing.

          Sequestering is like being in jail, but with better amenities. The jury has to stay in a hotel and eat all of their meals together without access to news about the trial. All contacts with the outside world are monitored.

          Jurors absolutely hate being sequestered.

          I do not know if jury selection will be televised. I hope so.

          • cielo62 says:

            masonblue~ still, it’s cooking up to be a short trial. Defense has NO exhibits or experts of their own. I’m thinking that the sequestration won’t influence the jury negatively.


          • Lonnie Starr says:

            MOM has to stay away from character witnesses, he has to stay away from witnesses who have recanted their testimony. He has to stay away from witnesses who are confused because, they do nothing to create any doubt, if he relies on them and their confusion is exposed, he loses big time.

            The Prosecution will put on a strong case very quickly. MOM’s job will be to try to tear it down. But there’s so much he must avoid, so many booby traps the case is a defense nightmare / minefield. He is without a star witness, he’s without any key piece of testimony or evidence. He can’t even put the defendant on the stand and he’s the only one who can tell his self serving concoction of lies. All gz can hope for is a chance to flee to somehow materialize between now and June 10th.

            MOM has nothing with which to show that a delay will cause a miscarriage of justice. His best bet is to help gz prepare his go bag.

  27. ChrisNY~Laurie says:

    Professor, thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I guess I was getting confused because of that darn Evidentiary Hearing motion.

    What about the reciprocal discovery though, why don’t we get to see that?

    • I don’t believe he has disclosed any reciprocal discovery to the prosecution. I don’t believe he has any to disclose.

      I think he intends to make a case out of cross examining the State’s witnesses, which is what the defense usually does.

      In other words, this is not surprising.

      The most interesting revelation so far is that the defense does not appear to have any experts on board.

      That is significant!

      • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

        It just blows my mind that they don’t any expert witnesses.
        Do they actually plan on proving all forensic evidence wrong without an expert of their own? From what I have seen of them so far, that isn’t going to happen.

        They must think that all forensic evidence in this case doesn’t matter. They must think that only witness 8 and the 911 (screams) are the only things that hurt their defense.

        They must be banking on getting witness 8 testimony thrown out by proving Crump coached her, the jury somehow believing it was Fogen screaming on 911 call, the colored pic of Fogen’s face and that certain LE didn’t think that there was enough evidence to arrest in the beginning, before more evidence came in. I don’t remember, but I assume BDLR listed the NP that treated Fogens nose on his witness list… Can’t wait to watch him question her.

        silly wabbits. 😉

      • Rachael says:

        But why doesn’t he have experts? Because he is so arrogant he thinks it is a clear-cut case and doesn’t need them? Because he can’t afford them? Because he can’t find one who agrees?

        Yeah, it is significant for more than one reason, that’s for sure.

  28. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Does anyone remember the questioning of West by BDLR about ABC and the tape of the Crump interview. What was BDLR getting at? It was something about West’s or O’Mara’s private conversation with ABC’s counsel. ABC ended up posting the interview instead of turning it over as evidence.

    Was BDLR suggesting that it was improper for West/O’Mara to work that way?

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Was what West/O’mara did improper or illegal?

      • racerrodig says:

        I would think any money they spent on anything but the case is at least an ethics violation.

      • SearchingMind says:

        O’Mara and West claimed that: (a) BDLR failed to inform them much earlier about the so-called DeeDee “lie”, (b) they spent time trying to find out the truth and as such are (c) entitled to compensation for the time thus spent.

        Now, remember the saying ‘pot calling kettle black’? I know you do. Let’s begin from there. BDRL used the ABC tape as an example to show how petti, frivolous and unreasonable O’Mara/West’s demands for compensation are and he did that this way:

        O’Mara and West sought, among others, the ABC tape and filed a Motion to that effect.

        Thereafter, O’Mara and West engaged ABC lawyers and the issue was resolved between them – i.e. O’Mara and West got the tape (and maybe more than the tape).

        Under the Rules of Discovery, O’Mara and West were obliged to inform the Court and the State about that development and provide the State with that tape – within 15 days after receipt. They did not. That constitutes per BDLR a discovery violation. BDLR (following O’Mara/West’s logic) suggested that the State invested time, money and energy to find that tape. That expense would not have been made if O’Mara and West had not violated their obligations under the Rules of Discovery. BDLR got West to concede as much. If O’Mara/West’s logic were to be followed, then the State would also be entitled to the same compensation O’Mara and West were demanding (BDLR, demonstrated).

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Thanks for taking the time to explain the situation to me, SearchingMind. I now understand it!

  29. Rachael says:

    The winning lottery ticket was sold in Tampa, Florida. Maybe MO’M bought it and all his (money) problems are over.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      I doubt that he would donate one cent of his winnings to the gz fund 🙂

      • Rachael says:

        LOL – probably not, but HIS money problems would be over. Like SM was saying above, he was using money that was supposed to be for GZ’s defense to finance his own office renovations. That is bad, really bad. It is really a shame that he had such money problems that he thought taking this case would propel him into riches. It is one thing to take a case pro bono because you can afford it and it is something you believe in, but this is what happens when you are doing it ONLY for the notoriety.

        He shouldn’t have gotten himself on the bad side of that security firm by not paying them because when this case is over, it will be MO’M who will need to go into hiding.

  30. ChrisNY~Laurie says:

    I agree that it would be better to have the witness in the courtroom, but I think with technology these days video conferencing is acceptable for both sides and it does save money for each side in traveling expenses for these witnesses.

    IIRC, during the Anthony trial, the State’s expert witness from the FBI testified via video conferencing on hair banding (death band) during the Frye hearing. The defense also used video conferencing for their expert witness in the Frye hearing on cadaver dogs.

    • ay2z says:

      Had Shellie been in the courtroom to testify at the first bond hearing, she would have been crossed eye to eye with Bernie. She was in the comfort of the place she was at 24 hrs a day (according to jr’s tweets, she was with him 24/7), with people in the other room who could watch the hearing from their phones out of sight and sound of the notary who worked for ‘them’.

      Judge Nelson, had she been on the bench, would have paid attention to the witness in person.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        When you do take testimony by tele anything, you lose a certain amount of control over who can view the testimony. So, unless you have some authorized personnel in control at the site from which the broadcast comes, you have to consider the type of testimony being taken.

        Usually something routine, that might even by done by paper questionnaire or other data gathering means, is amenable to remote testimony. I sincerely doubt you’d want to allow remote testimony on sensitive matters where inflections, gestures, facial expressions and the like might be as important as is what’s being said.

        I guess we’re all familiar with how much room there is for misunderstanding on text blogs? Emoticons can only do so much.

  31. colin black says:

    When is next hearing scheduled?……

  32. SearchingMind says:

    “O’Mara appears to be caught up in a money trap caused by frivolous expenditures of internet contributions and now he cannot afford experts”.

    I think there is more to that, Professor. I do not believe money is the reason O’Mara is acting weird:

    When O’Mara asks the Court to allow GZ to testify and NOT to be cross-examined (e.g. during second bong hearing), you know O’Mara is hiding something; you know O’Mara is not being truthful;

    When O’Mara tells the Court that GZ would rather provide an affidavit regarding the waiver of Immunity Hearing instead of answering 4 or 5 questions from the Judge with a yes or no, you know O’Mara is hiding something; you know O’Mara is not being truthful;

    When O’Mara tells the Court, I need my anonymous “experts” to testify telephonically from unknown places, you know O’Mara is hiding something; you know O’Mara is not being truthful.

    And O’Mara is indeed not a truthful fellow. Suchhas abundantly become apparent to especially the prosecutors in course of this procedure. In the Motion to Order the Defense To Comply With Its Discovery Obligations, the State strongly suggests that O’Mara and West may have engaged in, among other violations, destroying evidence (e.g. “losing” a drawing made by a witness during deposition!), etc. With that Motion, the State would want to know, among others,:

    a. Who are O’Mara’s experts, if any, (O’Mara provided the State with redacted lists of witness and per BDLR has renegaded on providing their names and addresses!)?

    b. If O’Mara has consulted any experts, where and when did that take place and where are the summaries of their reports?

    c. Who are O’Mara’s private investigators, what have they investigated so far and where are the summaries of their reports, etc.

    I believe that O’Mara has indeed consulted some experts and heard from them what he would rather not know. If the opposite were true (i.e. O’Mara’s experts supports GZ’s case), O’Mara would have been trumpeting that in front of all TV network in this country ad nauseam, proclaiming how innocent GZ is and why more donations are needed. More donations would have flowed in from the thugs at the CTH. RZ Sr. will also provide funds for experts (because they will milk MSNBC to death after an acquittal). But that’s not the case. Hence O’Mara acts weird, hides and/or destroys evidence and plays hanky-panky with the Rules of Procedure.

    • Rachael says:

      I agree with you entirely.

    • A criminal defense lawyer is not required to disclose the identities of expert witnesses whom he has consulted, unless he subsequently endorses them. Their identities and opinions are protected from disclosure by the attorney work-product rule.

      For example, O’Mara could have consulted any number of audiologists and if all of them concluded to a reasonable scientific certainty that Trayvon uttered the terrified death shriek based on testing performed with generally accepted technology/methodology, he would not be obligated to disclose that information and should refuse to disclose it.

      Because of the duty to disclose exculpatory information to the defense, the same cannot be said about the prosecution.

      The only exception to this rule occurs when the defense claims insanity or diminished capacity. In that situation, the defense is required to disclose damaging information to the prosecution since the evidence in question is the defendant’s brain which he or she alone can control.

      • Rachael says:

        But don’t you agree he acts like he has something to hide? Like SM said, look how he came unglued at the thought of GZ being cross examined – or even at that last hearing, when the judge wanted him to be sworn in so she could make it clear he understood what was going on.

        He is just not acting like someone who has nothing to hide.

      • SearchingMind says:

        Thanks Professor. The second paragraph of your reply also exposes the imbalance/unfairness of Pre-trial Discovery Rules (and with it its possible unconstitutionality). Apparently, the prosecution is only entitled to exculpatory evidence while the defense is entitle to both exculpatory- and incriminatory material. The defense may also depose any person who came in contact with prosecutors but not listed by them as witnesses, while the defense may hide such witnesses and make them unreachable to prosecutors. While the 5th Amendment protects the defendant from self-incrimination, one might argue that fair play and fair balance demand that the defendant be obligated to the State in the same manner the State is obligated to him. That surely would mean a frontal assault on the 5th Amendment. But the opposite puts the State at a significant procedural disadvantage. Thus we have a dilemma, which might be resolved by abrogating the current Pre-trial Discovery Rules and adopting Federal rules of procedure.

        • The Brady rule is the reason for the difference and it applies in both state and federal courts.

          That is, the prosecution cannot invoke the work product privilege to hide exculpatory evidence from the defense.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        “He has an abysmally dense client who will not shut-up and that is but one of many inconvenient facts that he feels obliged to conceal.”

        I think that even if Trayvon beat Fogen within an inch of his life and Fogen did shoot Trayvon in self defense (and I don’t think that happened) that OM would have problems with Fogen making himself look bad because Fogen is just that type of person who can’t open his mouth without looking like an idiot.

      • SearchingMind says:

        “The Brady rule is the reason for the difference and it applies in both state and federal courts.”

        Right, Professor. But the Brady Rules embody obligations exclusively for the State, while the State Discovery Rules obliges the criminal defendant to Reciprocal Discovery and without excluding incriminatory material. Therein might lie serious tension with the 5th Amendment. I will try to find case law defining the scope of a criminal defendant’s obligations under The Florida Rules of Criminal Procedure.

        • Defense doesn’t have to turn over incriminating material. By not endorsing the witness who possesses it, the defense avoids having to disclose the information that also is protected from disclosure as attorney work product.

          Therefore, if the prosecution knows that an expert witness has been contacted by the defense, it cannot obtain information about the contact from the witness, unless the defense endorses the witness, and that won’t happen unless the information is exculpatory.

          Therefore, there is no 5th Amendment issue.

      • kllypyn says:

        His stupid client is also arrogant he still thanks he will get away with it just like all the other times he got away with stuff. His meek appearance in court is just an act. Unless he’s drugged up is a no no because he wont be able to participate in his own defense (or lack there of) he will go off like he did when he killed Trayvon and his true colors will show through.

    • PYorck says:

      When O’Mara asks the Court to allow GZ to testify and NOT to be cross-examined (e.g. during second bong hearing), you know O’Mara is hiding something; you know O’Mara is not being truthful;

      The message that I got from that one was that ultimately GZ was calling the shots even against O’Mara’s better judgment. I am absolutely certain that it wasn’t O’Mara’s idea.

      • Rachael says:

        Yes, but it is more than that. O’Mara is terrified of what GZ might say about anything. He was very upset when, like I said, the judge wanted him sworn in only so she could make sure she understood what she was saying to him. O’Mara was so very worried she would ask him something other than if he understood what was going on – and that he might answer her.

        Not that I blame him for being afraid. Every time he opens his mouth, controversy falls out.

        I *almost* feel sorry for MO’M. He knew he was getting into a high profile controversial case to begin with, but I don’t think he had any idea – well, he did know about GZ’s first attorneys, I’m sure, but still, I just don’t think he quite understood what he was getting into. Yes, he thought he’d found an easy meal ticket, but instead he got GZ who, as Professor said is an “abysmally dense client who will not shut-up” as well as his brother, who is equally as abysmal, dense and won’t shut up.

        Yeah, he got more than he bargained for, but as slimy as he is, I don’t fell all THAT sorry for him.

      • cielo62 says:

        Rachael~ I’m not sure what MOM was worried about. gz was so heavily sedated that he couldn’t tell the gender of the person he was talking to! His first 5 answers were all “No, sir” and “Yes, sir” until West reminded him to answer to Your Honor!

      • SearchingMind says:

        I agree. But I also think that there was more to that. Remember, GZ said in one of those jail calls that he told O’Mara about the money. I am sure BDLR would have zoomed in on that during cross examination – if GZ had testified. That would have created big problems for O’Mara and between O’Mara and GZ. O’Mara might also have worried that GZ would commit perjury himself and/or deliver more evidence of perjury against Shellie. That would be a good reason to keep GZ off the stand. I used to think of O’Mara as a decent, fine attorney. Gradually it became apparent that he is just sleazy and slippery (and arguably dishonest). BDLR’s Epic Response and the wave of Motions in Limine show that he has seen through O’Mara and is not going to take chances with him anymore.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        BDLR’s Epic Response and the wave of Motions in Limine show that he has seen through O’Mara and is not going to take chances with him anymore

        What happened to the redactions to BdlR’s response that O’Mara wanted?

      • SearchingMind says:

        @ A’dam

        The court told O’Mara during the last hearing to indicate to the court and the State what exactly he wants to see redacted – within five days after the hearing. Nothing is known about what happened thereafter, yet. I would not be surprised if O’Mara completely forgot – given that the days and weeks after that hearing have been very hectic.

      • Jun says:

        Just a theory but perhaps the reason Omara is scared is because Fogen will say something about Omara during cross examination, hence his fears

      • LeaNder says:

        Amsterdam, if I am correct and any type of activities should show in the Eight Juridical Circuit’s database, nothing happened. Or nothing has changed or has been blackened out in the document. Still the original file.

        Maybe O’Mara lost interest after he did not succeed in getting a completely newly rewritten document. Maybe BDLR suggested to take a close look at the defense’s documents under that aspect? I somehow guessed when Nelson ruled that BDLR immediately reflected on what he would accept and what under no conditions and MOM gave up after a while. Maybe the file is not changed yet, which feels somehow unlikely. They are slow but not that slow. And as I remember there was a special time frame for this issue. Wasn’t there?

      • LeaNder says:

        SM, didn’t see you already dealt with the issue. 😉

    • FactsFirst says:

      yup, so far the defense have tried to take down Trayvon, his parents, NBC, Crump, DeeDee, BDLR, the media etc.. And I guess now their next target is every expert in America because they can’t get them to say what they want…

      All just a bunch of “pump faking” to delay trial as long a possible, so tugboat can figure out a way to escape with the rest of the money he’s hiding, IMHO… He’s not fooling nobody though… SMDH..

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I think that the defense has caught whatever bug gz has…..they seem feverish.

    • ay2z says:

      Why do you need experts to testify when your defense is demonize the child victim and his separated parents who are after money only.

      Who was after money for his deeds and ‘earned’ a quarter million plus dollars in blood supporters, who are haters and demonizers.

      The expert they would have consulted and alluded to their interest publicly in the ‘evidence’ was a ‘report’ that really wasn’t a report (said West) but cell phone pings that they interpreted as Trayvon doing something other on his trip to the store.

  33. fauxmccoy says:

    out of idle curiosity — has anyone else been notified that someone (other then themselves) has attempted to re-set your password? i got 2 notifications during the night.

    just wanted to let folks know and remind people to keep passwords as strong as possible. i see that wordpress now offers a randomly generated ‘strong’ password service and it looks good to me.

    • Rachael says:


    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Suggestion for a strong passwood:


    • We were attacked by about a half dozen hate spewing humanoids several days ago. Their comments were held up and I blacklisted each one after reviewing them and moved them into the spam cue.

      Shortly thereafter, I noticed that almost all of our legitimate comments were being diverted into the spam cue, including my own comments. I realized the odd assortment of letters and names they were using must have triggered the event, so I made an adjustment or two and all appears to be well.

      At approximately the same time and thereafter, people here began reporting notifications of efforts to reset passwords.

      These people really do hate us, which is a compliment for the excellent job we are doing to expose their racist lies.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        professor says

        At approximately the same time and thereafter, people here began reporting notifications of efforts to reset passwords.

        These people really do hate us, which is a compliment for the excellent job we are doing to expose their racist lies.

        i figured the two were related. i just wanted to be public about this, obviously they made no headway on their attempts to change passwords, in fact the attempts were amateurish in the extreme. mostly i wanted folks to be aware and remind them of good password protocol.

        it is a sign that we are doing good work, but dayam, i wish it did not have to be difficult. keep up the good work, all!

      • Xena says:

        @Professor. Chances are that those being hit with the email notifications have uncommon “handles”, because the filthy person doing this is setting up free email accounts with the handles. (Mr. or Ms Filth just tried getting through on Blackbutterfly7.)

        If people with uncommon handles want to take the time and sign-up for email with gmail and yahoo, (or any other free email provider), they should just to prevent from having an email account of their handle being used by the Zidiot in effort to infiltrate other blogs and forums.

      • Jun says:


        I also like the fact that mere words and a blog got under their skin so much and got them so mad

        while we all cool breeze over here

        Big Ups

    • PYorck says:

      And avoid reusing passwords. I know that everybody does it, but it creates unnecessary risks.

      • Xena says:

        And all others who have received email notifications to change password;

        It appears that the person doing this has a history of doing it to others, mostly in forums. By signing-in with your handle but not knowing your password, after a couple of failures, an email is automatically sent to you.

        Something you can do

        The email you receive might have 2 IP addresses. You can find the IP address by right-clicking the email then clicking properties. It might be a word press IP address and/or the IP address of the person trying to frustrate by impersonating you. I don’t want to share it here but there are a few good sources for tracking IP addresses. If you get that info, we can figure out how to organize to track it later.

        Thus far, I’ve tracked the person to Woodstock, IL. I could be wrong about their physical location, but their ISP is located in Chicago, has already received two complaints, and is on a blacklist. Also, I suspect they are using “Hidemyass” which is a proxy that changes IP addresses, but only one or two numbers. If the Professor is interested, I have the IP addresses for “Hidemyass” if you want to block.

        So whether it is “Adam” or “Jessup” or “jlw6891” or some other handle that is doing this; in honor of your using “Hidemyass”;

      • Xena says:

        @Professor. You have mail.

      • @Xena

        I received an email from WordPress that I wanted to reset my password on 3ChicsPolitico @ 2am this morning. It wasn’t me.

        • Xena says:


          I received an email from WordPress that I wanted to reset my password on 3ChicsPolitico @ 2am this morning. It wasn’t me.

          Go into “properties of that email, copy and paste it to an email and send it to me, please. Thank you. 🙂

      • Dennis says:

        Do not open any suspicious messages. Hackers can obtain your IP by putting a picture from their own server in the message and once you view that picture it logs your IP. Once they have your IP they can portscan to see which ports are open, then they can proceed to exploiting those open ports.

        I doubt the Fogen supporters are big bad computer hackers but you never know. Stay safe my friends.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Xena, Piercy and some others have been posting a lot at a discussion group on FB and bragging how he uses proxies. I believe someone else also mentioned doing so on another forum. They’ve all probably been busy.

        • Xena says:

          @Two sides.

          Xena, Piercy and some others have been posting a lot at a discussion group on FB and bragging how he uses proxies. I believe someone else also mentioned doing so on another forum. They’ve all probably been busy.

          It is impossible now-a-days to stay hidden behind a computer on the internet. Using the proxy method and IP changing services or programs only makes it more difficult for blog and forum administrators to block/ban by ever changing IP addresses. However, there are now services that document all IP addresses assigned to proxy servers, and also those assigned to the IP changing services.

      • Jun says:

        Piercy is a stalker obsessive loser

        He’s also crazy

        I bet he creates 3000 internet profiles to talk to himself to make him appear wealthy when he is nothing but a lowlife

        LOL Does he truly think his proxies save him?

        All it does is add an extra step in finding him

        To use a proxy, one must log into that proxy from their IP address and then that proxy address is associated with the website visited therefore he can be found

        The only thing is no one cares about a loser like him because what is the point of going after someone who obsessively stalks people and hides behind the internet like a troll and creeper?

        The guy is already pathetic enough and his life is a total failure.

        Not only that, he’s a weirdo and a jerk off, so social wise, he’d never have any real friends anyways

        Piercy owns himself repeatedly everyday

        His only interaction with the world is through his 3000 internet profiles where he does not get any attention anyways, so he tries trolling and saying really mean things to get attention

        It’s really pathetic LOL

    • racerrodig says:

      Had 2 the other night as did mmp and at least one other. Zidiots trying to hack into our accounts.

    • cielo62 says:

      Racer, MMP, and I have all been getting those notices. 2 back to back notices from WordPress. It’s either desperation or a weird glitch.

    • looneydoone says:

      2 e-mail notifications last night

  34. Trained Observer says:

    “Greedy and stupidity are quite the double whammy” — Frederick Leatherman

    Am having deep difficulty determining which might be which, but am leaning toward O’Mara being Greedy and Fogen being Stupidity. Then, again … it’s O’Mara who’s not being compensated, and Fogen who’s clearly eating well.

  35. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    It seems as if gz has ALWAYS decided how the fund money was to be spent and has never been open to listening to O’Mara.

    • parrot says:

      I am bowled over every time I think about almost half a million dollars going up in smoke.

      Those of you who are up on technology, is $40,000 necessary and a realistic figure for electronic upgrades for an office?

      • aussie says:

        O”Mara allegedly had to rent a house to have headquarters for this huge case… so they’d need 3 or 4 computers, a printer, some networking gear, tables, desks and chairs for interns, and some kitchen gear.

        It was his only chance to get anything out of GZ, anyway, so I don’t begrudge him that. It’s not a lot of money for over a year with GZ.

      • parrot says:

        “It was his only chance to get anything out of GZ, anyway, so I don’t begrudge him that. It’s not a lot of money for over a year with GZ.”

        Do you think it was in GZ’s best interest?

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        No. Just do the math. I believe they added about 6 people, most of them volunteers. Let’s give them all a good laptop, upgrade the internet bandwidth, add a good printer/scanner.

        Last time I looked they had a $3000 expenditure for experts. They are now hiding that in another categorie which also has software licences, creation and maintenance for their website. They spend $35000 in that categorie.

      • SearchingMind says:

        @ aussie and parot

        “O’Mara allegedly had to rent a house to have headquarters for this huge case… so they’d need 3 or 4 computers, a printer, some networking gear, tables, desks and chairs for interns, and some kitchen gear. (…).”

        And that’s symptomatic of some of what is wrong with O’Mara the Defense Counsel.

        O’Mara also “expanded” and “renovated” his Office with defense fund. That money was meant for the criminal defense of GZ, not O’Mara’s personal comfort and enrichment. If O’Mara thought that his Office was too small to handle GZ’s case and he has no guarantee that there would be enough money to simultaneously (a) expand and renovate his office and (b) provide adequate and effective defense for a criminal defendant facing life imprisonment, he (O’Mara) has no business taking the case in the first place. (And I do not see anything remotely complicated and/or unusual and/or out of the ordinary in this case that made “expansion”, “renovation” and two defense counsels necessary).

        IMO, its highly unethical and unprofessional to (a) not file for a finding of indigency for clearly a destitute client, (b) accept to do that client’s case pro-bono, (c) use defense funds donated to that same client to expand and renovate ones own law firm WHILE at the same time (d) UNABLE to pay for expert witnesses – knowing fully well that such witnesses will make/break the case. It just bothers on criminality.

        • It does appear that Mr. O’Mara may be collecting fees marked off as tax free deductible costs of doing business.

        • parrot says:

          “I believe that O’Mara has indeed consulted some experts and heard from them what he would rather not know. If the opposite were true (i.e. O’Mara’s experts supports GZ’s case), O’Mara would have been trumpeting that in front of all TV network in this country ad nauseam …”

          I agree, Searching. There is no way he would not have waved the report to the media, in court–not unlike that colored photograph of GZ.

          In taking this online to GZ’s supporters and soliciting their help O’Mara irretrievably diminished himself for everyone to see.

      • FactsFirst says:

        Can the court ask for documentation/receipts for the money Omara spent on office upgrades etc..?

      • Two sides to a story says:

        SearchingMind – articulate posts. I think you’re right, however, I suspect that Fogen had a hand in all that as well – or at least gave OM permission to go ahead. Like his overly ambitious security, he had delusions of grandeur with his defense. I’m sure in the pre-computer era, lawyers were able to provide a bang-up defense on a lot less money, even considering the difference in cost of living.

        I’m not sure whether to laugh or cry.

      • aussie says:

        C’mon, you’re all making out like that $40,000 renovation money was stealing. Not so. He’s entitled to be paid for his work. If he’d been PAID a proper rate, would anyone be arguing about what he decided to spend it on?

        At the time, the fund was standing at over $200,000 and there was some reason to imagine there would be more and more coming in. It was not LAST WEEK O’mara spent 40,000 while not having 3000 for a expert. At the time he was being generous only taking 40,000. At the ridiculous 400 an hour he was trying to charge for the delayed deposition of DeeDee, that is only 100 hours’ work. At a more sensible 100 an hour it is 400 hours’ work, or just 10 40-hour weeks.

        The wasted money is the 50,000 for security, the 11,000 a month for living expenses…..

      • Malisha says:

        Two sides, since you don’t know whether to laugh or cry, I will give you a hint: 😆

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          40K worth of electronics for a law office today? My guess is he has enough case management software and speech recognition to handle hundreds of cases. I sincerely doubt he’s going to have enough business to tax his system. 😆

      • Nellie Nell says:

        He needed the computers and space to monitor all the nonsense on those racist websites that dictates his next move! He is a terrible lawyer with ethics unbecoming. To allow a pool of idiots on the internet to tell you how to defend your client is absurd and foolish.

    • parrot says:


  36. Two sides to a story says:

    I just hope all these late motions don’t delay the trial.

    I notice that OM hasn’t posted any financial reports on Fogen’s defense fund since April 11 . . . about time for another.


  37. crazy1946 says:

    Darn, I’m always too late to be first!

  38. FactsFirst says:

    1st! Now RUN TELL THAT!

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