The search of Trayvon Martin’s backpack in school was unreasonable and unlawful

Monday, May 6, 2013

Good morning:

I credit Lonnie Starr’s series of comments regarding the warrantless search by a school police officer of Trayvon Martin’s backpack for inspiring me to write today’s post.

The officer seized some women’s jewelry and a large flat head screwdriver that the officer described as a burglar tool. Trayvon was not charged with a criminal offense because no one had reported the jewelry stolen and the value of the jewelry was uncertain because no one had examined it to determine if it contained precious gems, or if it were worthless costume jewelry designed to look like real jewelry. The absence of a stolen property report suggests that it’s costume jewelry because, if it had any value, the owner likely would have filled out a stolen property report and filed an insurance claim.

IIRC, the suspension that resulted in his trip to Sanford involved a later incident.

Nevertheless, in response to demands from many of the defendant’s supporters at the Conservative Treehouse, defense counsel have commenced a snipe hunt into this closed matter in hopes of discovering that Trayvon was a member of a burglary ring in Miami. According to CTH logic, this would mean that Trayvon really was “up to no good” when the defendant encountered him walking home in the rain, presumably because once a burglar, always a burglar who must have continued burglarizing homes in Sanford.

Even if this were true, of course, the defendant would not have known it, and since the narrative description that he provided to the NEN dispatcher did not establish a reasonable suspicion to believe Trayvon was “up to no good,” he had no justifiable reason to follow and confront him. In addition, unless juvenile burglars in Miami are aggressive and violent MMA style ninja fighters who like to assault and kill people with their bare hands just for grins, the evidence would be inadmissible.

Therefore, this snipe hunt is going nowhere fast. It’s an absolute waste of time and money when the defense should be assembling a team of experts to review all of the reports, raw data and bench notes generated by the State’s experts.

Be that as it may, Lonnie has raised an issue of general concern to teachers and parents of school age children. Under what circumstances can a teacher search a student’s backpack for evidence of a crime without a search warrant?

The SCOTUS answered that question in 6-3 decision in New Jersey v. TLO, 469 U.S. 325, 328 (1985). Writing for the majority, Justice White described the facts as follows:

On March 7, 1980, a teacher at Piscataway High School in Middlesex County, N.J. discovered two girls smoking in a lavatory. One of the two girls was the respondent T.L.O, who at that time was a 14-year-old high school freshman. Because smoking in the lavatory was a violation of a school rule, the teacher took the two girls to the Principal’s office, where they met with Assistant Vice Principal Theodore Choplick. In response to questioning by Mr. Choplick, T.L.O’s companion admitted that she had violated the rule. T.L.O, however, denied that she had been smoking in the lavatory and claimed that she did not smoke at all.

Mr. Choplick asked T.L.O to come into his private office and demanded to see her purse. Opening the purse, he found a pack of cigarettes, which he removed from the purse and held before T.L.O as he accused her of having lied to him. As he reached into the purse for the cigarettes, Mr. Choplick also noticed a package of cigarette rolling papers. In his experience, possession of rolling papers by high school students was closely associated with the use of marihuana. Suspecting that a closer examination of the purse might yield further evidence of drug use, Mr. Choplick proceeded to search the purse thoroughly. The search revealed a small amount of marihuana, a pipe, a number of empty plastic bags, a substantial quantity of money in one-dollar bills, an index card that appeared to be a list of students who owed T.L.O money, and two letters that implicated T.L.O in marihuana dealing.

Mr. Choplick notified T.L.O’s mother and the police, and turned the evidence of drug dealing over to the police.

The New Jersey Supreme Court held that this warrantless search was unlawful, but the SCOTUS reversed. Justice White said,

There remains the question of the legality of the search in this case. We recognize that the “reasonable grounds” standard applied by the New Jersey Supreme Court in its consideration of this question is not substantially different from the standard that we have adopted today. Nonetheless, we believe that the New Jersey court’s application of that standard to strike down the search of T.L.O.’s purse reflects a somewhat crabbed notion of reasonableness. Our review of the facts surrounding the search leads us to conclude that the search was in no sense unreasonable for Fourth Amendment purposes.

The incident that gave rise to this case actually involved two separate searches, with the first — the search for cigarettes — providing the suspicion that gave rise to the second — the search for marihuana. Although it is the fruits of the second search that are at issue here, the validity of the search for marihuana must depend on the reasonableness of the initial search for cigarettes, as there would have been no reason to suspect that T.L.O. possessed marihuana had the first search not taken place. Accordingly, it is to the search for cigarettes that we first turn our attention.

The New Jersey Supreme Court pointed to two grounds for its holding that the search for cigarettes was unreasonable. First, the court observed that possession of cigarettes was not in itself illegal or a violation of school rules. Because the contents of T.L.O.’s purse would therefore have “no direct bearing on the infraction” of which she was accused (smoking in a lavatory where smoking was prohibited), there was no reason to search her purse. [Footnote 11] Second, even assuming that a search of T.L.O.’s purse might under some circumstances be reasonable in light of the accusation made against T.L.O., the New Jersey court concluded that Mr. Choplick in this particular case had no reasonable grounds to suspect that T.L.O. had cigarettes in her purse. At best, according
to the court, Mr. Choplick had “a good hunch.” 94 N.J. at 347, 463 A.2d at 942. Both these conclusions are implausible. T.L.O. had been accused of smoking, and had denied the accusation in the strongest possible terms when she stated that she did not smoke at all. Surely it cannot be said that under these circumstances, T.L.O.’s possession of cigarettes would be irrelevant to the charges against her or to her response to those charges. T.L.O.’s possession of cigarettes, once it was discovered, would both corroborate the report that she had been smoking and undermine the credibility of her defense to the charge of smoking. To be sure, the discovery of the cigarettes would not prove that T.L.O. had been smoking in the lavatory; nor would it, strictly speaking, necessarily be inconsistent with her claim that she did not smoke at all. But it is universally recognized that evidence, to be relevant to an inquiry, need not conclusively prove the ultimate fact in issue, but only have “any tendency to make the existence of any fact that is of consequence to the determination of the action more probable or less probable than it would be without the evidence.” Fed.Rule Evid. 401. The relevance of T.L.O.’s possession of cigarettes to the question whether she had been smoking and to the credibility of her denial that she smoked supplied the necessary “nexus” between the item searched for and the infraction under investigation. See Warden v. Hayden, 387 U. S. 294, 387 U. S. 306-307 (1967). Thus, if Mr. Choplick in fact had a reasonable suspicion that T.L.O. had cigarettes in her purse, the search was justified despite the fact that the cigarettes, if found, would constitute “mere evidence” of a violation. Ibid.

Of course, the New Jersey Supreme Court also held that Mr. Choplick had no reasonable suspicion that the purse would contain cigarettes. This conclusion is puzzling. A teacher had reported that T.L.O. was smoking in the lavatory. Certainly this report gave Mr. Choplick reason to suspect that T.L.O. was carrying cigarettes with her; and if she did have cigarettes, her purse was the obvious place in which to find them. Mr. Choplick’s suspicion that there were cigarettes in the purse was not an “inchoate and unparticularized suspicion or hunch,'” Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. at 392 U. S. 27; rather, it was the sort of “common-sense conclusio[n] about human behavior” upon which “practical people” — including government officials — are entitled to rely. United States v. Cortez, 449 U. S. 411, 449 U. S. 418 (1981). Of course, even if the teacher’s report were true, T.L.O. might not have had a pack of cigarettes with her; she might have borrowed a cigarette from someone else or have been sharing a cigarette with another student. But the requirement of reasonable suspicion is not a requirement of absolute certainty: “sufficient probability, not certainty, is the touchstone of reasonableness under the Fourth Amendment. . . .” Hill v. California, 401 U. S. 797, 401 U. S. 804 (1971). Because the hypothesis that T.L.O. was carrying cigarettes in her purse was itself not unreasonable, it is irrelevant that other hypotheses were also consistent with the teacher’s accusation. Accordingly, it cannot be said that Mr. Choplick acted unreasonably when he examined T.L.O.’s purse to see if it contained cigarettes.

Our conclusion that Mr. Choplick’s decision to open T.L.O.’s purse was reasonable brings us to the question of the further search for marihuana once the pack of cigarettes was located. The suspicion upon which the search for marihuana was founded was provided when Mr. Choplick observed a package of rolling papers in the purse as he removed the pack of cigarettes. Although T.L.O. does not dispute the reasonableness of Mr. Choplick’s belief that the rolling papers indicated the presence of marihuana, she does contend that the scope of the search Mr. Choplick conducted exceeded permissible bounds when he seized and read certain letters that implicated T.L.O. in drug dealing. This argument, too, is unpersuasive. The discovery of the rolling papers concededly gave rise to a reasonable suspicion that T.L.O. was carrying marihuana as well as cigarettes in her purse. This suspicion justified further exploration of T.L.O.’s purse, which turned up more evidence of drug-related activities: a pipe, a number of plastic bags of the type commonly used to store marihuana, a small quantity of marihuana, and a fairly substantial amount of money. Under these circumstances, it was not unreasonable to extend the search to a separate zippered compartment of the purse; and when a search of that compartment revealed an index card containing a list of “people who owe me money” as well as two letters, the inference that T.L.O. was involved in marihuana trafficking was substantial enough to justify Mr. Choplick in examining the letters to determine whether they contained any further evidence. In short, we cannot conclude that the search for marihuana was unreasonable in any respect.

Because the search resulting in the discovery of the evidence of marihuana dealing by T.L.O. was reasonable, the New Jersey Supreme Court’s decision to exclude that evidence from T.L.O.’s juvenile delinquency proceedings on Fourth Amendment grounds was erroneous. Accordingly, the judgment of the Supreme Court of New Jersey is


New Jersey v. TLO, 469 U.S., at 343-348.

Using the reasonableness test the SCOTUS has approved of the use of random drug testing of student athletes in Vernonia School District 47J v. Acton, 515 U.S. 646 (1995), and eventually extended the rule to apply to all students engaged in extracurricular activities in Board of Education v. Earls, 536 U.S. 822 (2002).

The SCOTUS drew the line, however, in Safford Unified School District v. Redding, 557 U.S. 364 (2009), where school officials strip searched a girl in middle school for pills where the school lacked reasons to suspect either that the drugs (Ibuprofen) presented a danger or that they were concealed in her underwear.

Lonnie argues that the search of Trayvon’s backpack for the grafitti marker that led to the discovery of the jewelry and screwdriver a day after the police official claimed to have seen him mark-up a door in the school with WTF, violated his right to privacy and I agree that it did. Although reasonable minds might differ, I believe the search was unreasonable because the information was stale.


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286 Responses to The search of Trayvon Martin’s backpack in school was unreasonable and unlawful

  1. Tracy says:

    First, I would point out that the court findings were in New Jersey. School policies and decisions are only applicable to their state. I do agree that it could be reasonably taken to court for a decision. But as the policy in Miami is concerned (and every school I have ever been to) is that there is no right to privacy once you enter school grounds. Part of the policy states that “…students shall have no expectation of privacy…” I think no matter how you look at it the Trayvon case is horribly, truly tragic. And the police BTW were investigated by internal affairs for not acting on crimes in order to lower the crime statistics, which dropped by about 60%. Maybe if they had actually done their xxxn job and charged him he would be alive today. It would have been crappie but maybe it would have scared him straight. At the very least he would probably have been smart and not been out in the middle of the night walking by people’s houses in a gated community. Having said that I want to say again it is so terrible for all parties involved.

    • Maybe if they had actually done their xxxn job and charged him he would be alive today. It would have been crappie but maybe it would have scared him straight. At the very least he would probably have been smart and not been out in the middle of the night walking by people’s houses in a gated community. Having said that I want to say again it is so terrible for all parties involved.

      I agree it was terrible, but I think you mischaracterized the facts.

      He wasn’t out in the middle of the night. It was around 7 pm and he was a guest of a woman who lived in the community (his dad’s girlfriend). He was walking home from a convenience store where he bought some tea and chocolate bars. Kids smoke pot. I smoked pot when I was his age. There’s nothing wrong with it and it’s a helluva lot better for people than alcohol. George Zimmerman is an unrepentant racist who killed him because he was black.

  2. Shari says:

    This is an informative piece because it seems like there is a move to make our children truly be wards and owned by the state. I don’t wan to sound like an Alex Jones person but we must remember our civil liberties. Too much interference in the parent/child relationship. What is going on in our culture where schools can no longer simply educate children? It’s like they feel the need to raise them now.

    I signed the district policy earlier this year without reading it. I will now read the whole handbook to see what my rights are and what I agreed to adhere to.

    • cielo62 says:

      Shari~ I’ve been a teacher for 20 years. Too many parents DO expect us to raise their children! The kids come with no manners, no self control, no self respect, no supplies, no motivation, no morals, no NOTHING and leave them at school for 7 hours or more, with every expectation that the SCHOOL will supply them, feed them, educate them, babysit them and discipline them. I’ve seen it many, many times. And it’s not a “race” thing. I think it’s socio-economic coupled with pure entitlement. I’ve seen hispanics do this, because @ 90% of our population is hispanic. I’ve seen poor whites do this, since they are the remaining 10%. So schools get into the habit of controlling each aspect of these children’s lives UNTIL something happens that the parents don’t like (usually something that costs them money like bail or fines) and THEN they go screaming about “rights.” Yes, I agree there’s a school- to- prison pipeline, BUT many parents FEED it, by refusing to PARENT. So keep a balanced view on this. Teachers are NOT the bad guys (all of the time).

      • Shari says:

        I don’t want to veer off topic out of respect for the blog owner. I will be brief. I never anywhere in my comment maligned all public school educators so no offense was intended. Growing up I encountered many wonderful teachers who encouraged me and did their jobs well. There are many educators in my family.

        In context: We are talking about over reach and the public school violating the rights of a child/student. Public school is cumpolsory so we can’t say that students give up their Constitutional protections. Because of that violation we have a child missing school and being targeted by a thug hopped up on a controlled medication and probably alcohol & hate.

        • cielo62 says:

          Shari~ Thank you for your response. The way I read it, when you mentioned how you had just signed the student code of conduct without knowing what was in it, just brings back lots of conflicts with parents I’ve had or seen over the years. YES, especially in high school, the schools lack any legal knowledge and little common sense.. But many times it’s a 2 way street, with parents not doing their part. Sabrina and Tracy both are good, loving parents. The high school sounds like a concentration camp, and NOTHING like what I had when growing up. But the whole thing ties in together, doesn’t it? Trayvon being hounded by an idiot of a campus cop, being suspended on the flimsiest of grounds and people lacking any legal recourse against a school district. Internalized discrimination sending a young man into more discrimination at the hands of a murdering sociopath. When this case is over and GZ is firmly and justly caged in prison, we still LOTS of work to do, to insure that racism is confronted and beaten down, in ALL areas of our community.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Nicely said! I would wish that the local bar associations would create rights projects, have a representative attend PTA meetings and take a little time to give seminars on students rights and how parents can go about challenging adverse decisions. Have a public advocacy office that parents can contact for free advice. Because “put upon” parents with so many other concerns, are going to be hard pressed to learn laws and processes they may never use.

            Most parents only become aware of these processes when something happens, and by then it’s too late, they’re overwhelmed by the steep learning curve and the little time available. They need advocacy groups to help them. and it’s more than worthwhile that they do. Even a lone racist on a school police force can disrupt the entire life of several students without even a hope that they or their shoddy bogus work will be discovered.

            Wrecking students lives with false allegations that result in unfair disciplinary actions, which turn the student against the system and can lead to a total break with society, depending on how deep the cuts go. Meanwhile, such a serious matter is almost invisible, until something like this occurs. If this chance to do something is missed, lord only knows when the next chance will come along, with the power to throw the focus on school security matters and student rights. I shudder to think of how many more people will be harmed for life if something is not done to try to stop it.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            What’s needed is for someone with creds to write a sort of

            Parents 5 minute guide to defending your children at disciplinary actions and reviewing and appealing suspensions.

            Since, I believe that most parents, through no fault of their own, just haven’t a clue of how to even begin. Some succeed because they simply make way too much “noise” and the administrators fear it might attract outside scrutiny.

            But knowledgeable parents will know their basic rights and be able to insist on getting the records etc., to review. Lots of times all it takes is a good look at the record to see that something hinkey is going down.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Mind you… These violations of rights were committed by a police organization, invited into the school to perform security functions. The results of these operations were passed to the teachers and/or education administrators, who then acted upon them, without giving these reported matters further consideration.

          For example, the police: MDSPD (Miami-Dade School Police Department) did not order Trayvon’s suspension. They merely reported their “investigative results” to the school administration, who then to further action against Trayvon, without even a cursory review of the complain/investigation.

          I’m pretty sure that had the administrator asked and discovered that the MJ baggie was found in a locker that Trayvon shared with another student, and could not be ascertained with any level of certainty that it had actually ever contained MJ, except by guesswork. My guess is that the adm would have shied away from taking any action. Of course, if Trayvon’s father, Tracey Martin had any legal schooling to go with his truck driving job, he’d probably have known what questions to ask of whom, how to interpret the answers he received and what to do about it. Failing to have such knowledge, as plenty of hardworking parents do, he wouldn’t see much to be gained by starting up with a matter he did not understand, even if he knew it was wrong, because he knew that his son was telling the truth about not doing such things.

          But these school districts invite in police, who bring with them these same biases against blacks that we see in the public sector and court system etc. Thus school adm’s who are asked to act upon non-criminal complaints from these people, need to at least, take a more than cursory look at what generated the complaint, because they are probably going to be the poor students last line of defense.

          The officers had managed to succeed in accusing Trayvon of being in possession of a burglary tool, without ever having to substantiate a reason for putting that salacious accusation in his official record. Then create an aura of suspicion by claiming that worthless costume jewelry was likely stolen (using the burglary tool of course), and put that in the record as well without having to justify any of it. Worse, the school administration went straight from receiving the bogus report to acting against the student upon it.

          Clearly a massive and vigorous wedge needs to be driven between these bedfellows. If the school district is going to invite the police in to do their security, then the school district is going to have to provide the students with a means to defend themselves against false/erroneous charges and salacious reports. Before they become part of any permanent official record.

          The MDSPD and the School districts poor performance had a hand in causing Trayvon’s death and should be made to pay for their calloused transgressions upon his rights!

  3. towerflower says:

    My son attends HS in Florida. This is what is in their student handbook.

    Your locker, vehicle, purse, backpack and other personal
    possessions can be searched if there is reasonable suspicion
    any of them contain drugs, weapons, contraband or other
    items not permitted on campus. Trained sniff-screening dogs
    are allowed in the schools to prevent drugs and weapons at
    school. The routine checks by the dogs are not considered a
    search by law. They are safety preventions to give you a safe
    and healthy school in which to learn. FS 1006.09 (9)

    FS 1006.09 (9) is: (9) A school principal or a school employee designated by the principal, if she or he has reasonable suspicion that a prohibited or illegally possessed substance or object is contained within a student’s locker or other storage area, may search the locker or storage area. The district school board shall require and each school principal shall cause to be posted in each public K-12 school, in a place readily seen by students, a notice stating that a student’s locker or other storage area is subject to search, upon reasonable suspicion, for prohibited or illegally possessed substances or objects. This subsection does not prohibit the use of metal detectors or specially trained animals in the course of a search for illegally possessed substances or objects.

    My son’s school has notices placed at the entrances of the school stating that they could be subject to search.

  4. colin black says:

    May Sybrina and Tracy find peace.


    And may all the guilty malicous up to no good thugs
    Whom are the ones UP 2 NO GOOD face consiqences..

    For ther pervrse thouifgs an actions that they continualy project onto there innocent VICTIMS.

    Because people like foggagge are perfectly aware of what there doing is illegall.
    They know lieing to a dispatch on a citizen makeing false an surilous allegations
    Not from what he is wittnessing.

    But from thoughs he is makeing up in his head as the situatipon unfolds.

    Shit he is running = guilty suspect.

    Not he is running from me illegaly cerb crawling an stalking him.

    I think ..I THought he saw my gun .

    And I felt his hand go down my chest towards it.?

    SO I Trapped his hand sorta indicates he trapped or dissabled Trayvons reaching hand with his ARMPITS???

    Or some portion of his arm forceing Trayvons hand trapped unable to reach for his weapon .

    An thus dissabled pulled out his gun an shot him one time shrug.

    First of all if you feel some ones hand moveing down OVER YOU CHEST .
    Down toward your exposed holster/weapon at the back of your waist.

    An your armpit no less.
    FFS An armpit even your arm is stopping trapping a hand no where near the vincity of weapon.

    SAo how could he justify Trayvon was going to put his hand any where near the holster if he traps said hand .
    With his armpit or upper arm pressure.

    Second your admitting you had him under control his hand trapped no where near your gun.
    Already knowing the police would arrive within seconds miutes at most.
    And you pulled out your weapon an shot a CHILD you had under control an at your mercy.

    But we know there is no mercy in that peice of human crap

  5. ay2z says:

    A reminder about smoke and mirrors, theatrics and the facts, believability and the illogical.

    I found the youtube clip video last night, and did some digging at snopes , here’s an all in one version by Strombo.

    • ay2z says:

      (notice in the creator’s explanation video, his background documents (hoaxocuments ?) detail the history of the stairwell, and in one document, right smack in the lower middle, the catch name ‘Zimmerman’. Common name for a Dean maybe, but timely to include a top current newsstory keyword. Catch it at 1:37 mins)

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Feels like this case!

  6. LeaNder says:

    I have a really basic question. When I search the web in German for school police all the articles somehow refer to the US. Of course when society gets more rough it will show in schools too, it’s not that I am not aware of problematic schools over here.

    So, strictly I wonder. When did this start in the US. Do all here remember school police from their own times?

    Here is an article in the Guardian from the European perspective. A German article linked to it. I admttedly only read the German one so far.

    We may well be worried occasionally that trends that start in the US are pretty likely to show up over here after a while.

    • racerrodig says:

      I graduated in 73 and no school around here (southern New Jersey) had police at the school. This started around the early 90″s.

      • LeaNder says:

        racer, same question what grade, or at what age, did you leave highschool in NJ? After how many years in school.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          leander — my experience in small town northern california was no police presence whatsoever … unless you counted the quarterback’s drunken stepfather at football games. :/

          i graduated high school in 1982, age 17. in california, school is compulsory until age 18, with some exceptions.

        • racerrodig says:

          4 years in HS. 9/69 – 6/73. I was the youngest in my graduating year and i was 17……..turned 18 Oct. 73.

      • Rachael says:

        I graduated in 73 also. No police officers in Phx at the high schools either.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @racer, happy birthday 5 months in advance! I don’t know if we will be here in October so, this is why I send you a B’day wish in advance. besides, you are a sweetie and, I appreciate the support and the love, that all of you guys are giving so unconditionally to Trayvon and his family.

        Unlike some in this family, you guys have treated this victim and his family the way other victims of crime have been treated. the guys who committed the attack in Boston, are in no way being vilified, the way some in this country has smeared, slandered and demonized the way Trayvon Martin has. I wonder what they think about the three Hispanics who held three women captive for ten years, before they were rescued by a black man. are they going to throw their love and support behind them, the way they have done Fogen? after all Fogen is from the Hispanic culture just like them.

        • racerrodig says:

          Thanks so much……funny, I don’t feel any younger ??

          I have to thank Pihranamom for clarifying why we really are here. Love, that’s the main reason. We seek Justice for Trayvon as he could very well have been a member of any of our families.

          He is however a member of the human race and for the Zidiots to treat his life the way they do shows an utter lack of character. To invent stories like they do is despicable. What say we do that to them ?? Then watch it hit the fan.

        • cielo62 says:

          ladystclaire~ “them” who? Hispanics? I’m hispanic and I despise ANYONE who commits crimes, especially something as horrible as aggravated kidnapping and rape! Or are you talking about the ZimFam? Please be specific. MANY hispanics hate Zimmerman, REGARDLESS of what he calls himself.

        • Deborah says:


          You know dam* well that those monsters who kidnapped those young girls in Ohio, will in no way be vilified the same way that TM is vilified! Won’t happen! They will probably say that the man who rescued them was the kidnapper! Like I mentioned, not even the Boston Bombers are being demonized as TM is hated and that is because their skin is white. Racists never see the crimes that are perpetrated by other whites. Only minorities. It is only black skin that is demonized by evil racist who possess the heart of a devil. They have turned TM into some caricature of an individual that I cannot recognize. I hear him described by his friends in school and his relatives as a good kid. He had dreams and he had goals in life. He is nothing like the way they are portraying him. Instead of Z family denouncing it, they perpetuate it. They are just as racists and what is funny is that racists hate them as well.

          Off topic: I graduated from HS a few years after you and a few others on here! I was just listening to my Classic Soul Music, R& B on the computer radio, and Classic Pop and Rock! Take me back to those days! Whatever happened to THAT SUPER BAD music from artists who could SANG, play an instrument and kill a song??

          • Xena says:


            Whatever happened to THAT SUPER BAD music from artists who could SANG, play an instrument and kill a song??

            The record companies abandoned them so they could promote hip hop to the younger generation. Freddie Jackson was on the program “Unsung” and talked about it.

          • cielo62 says:

            Xena~ And hip-hop was fun, until it turned into violent, misogynistic, homophobic rap.

          • Deborah says:


            I cannot listen to todays HIP HOP! It is annoying to me. I liked Tupac and LLCOOL J but that was years ago! My I guess I am getting old because I only listen to the late 60’s, 70’s, and some 80’s and 90’s. Today, I heard Aretha’s “Respect” and Janis Joplin’s singing, ” A Piece of my Heart.” ::SIGH:: There are no singers like Aretha, or Janis or Tina, Gladys or Grace Slick James Brown and don’t get me started with The British Invasion. All of the record companies that existed back then are gone! SMH! My kids say I live in the past, and I guess I do. …

          • cielo62 says:

            Deborah~ Agree with you 100%. And even today’s easy lisetning music is so… whiny!

          • racerrodig says:

            My 14 year old son’s band does mostly Classic Rock….and a lot of British Invasion songs. They do “Pumped Up Kicks” as a tribute to victims of gun violence.

            Yep….mighty proud of those “Team Trayvon Jr. Warriors” I am.

          • Try this:

            Graveyard by Devil Makes Three

            Wagon Wheel by Old Crow Medicine Show

          • fauxmccoy says:

            thanks fred – roots country, americana, whatever you want to call it is the only ‘new’ music that appeals to me currently. i’m glad i am not the only ones and that my girls (12 and 15) are happy enough to go along with OCMS et al on road trips.

          • Devil Makes Three are originally from Santa Cruz. I believe they now live in Seattle.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            thanks for the tip, will look into them 🙂

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            It’s because you’re now “seeing the forest” where before all you saw was the trees!

            Coming up people, kids, hear music, catch the beat and look for the words to express what they’re feeling. It’s like being on a train taking you somewhere you know not. Later in life you get to look back at where that train traveled and carried you, that’s when you get to see what the music did to you. Where before, you only thought that you were doing things with the music. In other words back then you only saw half of the picture, the part where you were in control.

            Only later did you realize that there was another half, that the music was also in control and carrying you places itself.

            Today these kids are finding music exciting, and they too feel they’re in control. Years later, they’ll get to see where their music carried them to, or tried to before they stepped off. Alas, I see a lot of rap songs are little more than “one day wonders”. While “Rollin on the river” persists. Heck, for that matter, even Ol’ Man River has more staying power than many of today’s million cd hits.

          • Xena says:


            Xena~ And hip-hop was fun, until it turned into violent, misogynistic, homophobic rap.

            With the exception of Jay-Z and Ice Cube, the only time I’ve heard rap music is when someone else was playing it. That’s just how much I dislike it.

      • LeaNder says:

        thanks, racer, fauxy, Rachael,

        Once in awhile we’d hear about a HS that had an undercover “narc” but we didn’t have a real drug problem.

        Rumors means there must have been some kind of awareness for drugs. Nothing of that kind in my school. No big town either, maybe that matters. But I have never heard of a school police before, admittedly.

        Texas sounds pretty awful in that respect.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I graduated in 1971. I attended 3 HS – at the last one, the one I literally graduated from, located in a medium-sized Midwestern city, had a school officer. However, he dressed in plain clothes and I don’t believe he was armed. He appeared to be more a detective interested in drug use and I’m not sure that most students were aware of his presence. I was aware of it because I volunteered to work in the school office for a term and I would see him lurking around the office and was told he was the school officer.

      • LeaNder says:

        Midwest, good to have that visually, I am never quite sure.

        After how many grades or years of school did you leave there? Trayvon’s school feels pretty similar to ours over here in Germany or France, but I do not think that is the Us high school standard.

        We are pretty close in age. Strictly I somehow doubt that the Drug War started that early.

        The officer was there regularly, are you sure?

    • LeaNder says:

      Sorry, I took a link from a translation of the German article, checking if that works, but it hardly does. And seems this somehow interferes with the Guardian article to. Funny.

      Here is the correct link, US school police

    • LeaNder says:

      Forget the questions about US High School it is the same now than over here. We still went to high school from grade 5-13. They dropped the last year.

  7. Shari says:

    The Zidiots will never be able to give a valid legal reason why Fogen bothered or targeted Trayvon at all. They start defending Fogen at the point where the two meet up, they ignore the fact that Fogen should not have been bothering another private citizen. They are still saying that the victim had to have doubled back and jumped Fogen. Why? Only on the belief of Fogens words. And as they say, because Trayvon was young if he had ran at full speed he could have made it home. SMH So they never realize that they admit Fogen was chasing and hunting the child. Some of them have not read the available evidence. I had to tell one guy that the victims body was NOT found near Fogen’s truck. And those minor wounds Fogen received were not at the hands of the victim. The autopsy report proves it. It was a rainy night and he could have slipped. The minor nose injury (not broken) was from gun recoil.

    The wanna be cop Thugboat will see justice soon. 6/10/13

    May Sybrina and Tracy find peace.

    • racerrodig says:

      Well said and exactly correct. Fogen didn’t have the right to stop Charles Manson if he saw him walking along, let alone a minor child. The next thing we know the Zidiot Nation will claim Trayvon was flicking Skittles at him to entice a fight…..

      • Shari says:

        Thugboat is a danger to the community. Interesting that he fashions himself as a protector of a gated community. He says he wants to decrease the violence but it was HIS own actions that caused a murder to occur there.

        The media is partly to blame for this atmosphere of fear. I remember reading a stat declaring that violent crime has ACTUALLY decreased in America. But the media finds it ok to daily report on criminal activity.

        I don’t believe there ever was a rash of crime there. I remember the racist neighbor Taffy complaining about the neighborHOOD and how Fogens actions were justified. That Travyon the victim should have just submitted to his authority.

        I think his group of racists were trying to harras all of the black owners to move away. All of his calls were about black males. This is his MO. Stopping black males and demanding to know what they are doing there.

        This case also demonstrates how much race is a social construct in America. Fogen self identifies as white. When his picture was released everyone was confused because he skin color and facial features were similar to many of the South American immigrants here. Someone had commented to me that he looks like one of the day laborers who would be outside of Home Depot looking for work. I guarantee you that if Fogen had hunted down and murdered Trevor O’reilly instead of Trayvon Martin Hannity and the political right would never have jumped to his defense. He would have been labeled a b—-r, s–c, or w—–k.

        Peace to Sybrina, Tracy, and family. I can’t imagine the hurt. For your child to precede you in death at the hands of a hateful murderer. Who after committing the heinous crime molested your child’s body.

        • racerrodig says:

          And claiming his victims last words as his own are so despicable it should be a crime of it’s own.

      • Rachael says:

        Absolutely Shari!! He didn’t protect anyone. He killed one of the people he was *supposedly supposed to be* protecting and now look at the trouble he ened up causing. Useless pos

      • Trained Observer says:

        Flicking Skittles?

        What a vision!. Like rice for bridal couples … or confetti at a parade, the beleaguered Team Fogen could be greeted each day at trial with by massive crowds of Trayvon supporters all flicking Skittles.

        (Although navy beans through a pea shooter would make more sense from a budgetary standpoint.)

        Hoodies Up & Flicking Skittles

        • racerrodig says:

          “Hoodies Up & Flicking Skittles”

          I’ll step out and say that if Fogen ever encountered mmp & myself, he’d have Skittles jammed up his nose by the bushel full….no joke, he deserves it.

          But that would be a hoot every day he walks into court…..

          “Skittles a Flyin”

        • cielo62 says:

          Trained Observer~ I like the beans. They’d hurt more!

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Shari, I love your comment and, you have told the truth about Fogen and his night of murdering a child. I don’t think there were a lot of criminal activity in that neighborhood either. this IMO was being used in order for Fogen to set up his crime. if crime was so rampant at RTL only, because there were two other neighborhood in close proximity, yet this one was the only one experiencing a high rate of crime. if you ask me, that was a big lie to go along with the rest of his lies.

        As for what you said about Fogen and he fellow racist, wanting the AA owners/tenants of their neighborhood, I couldn’t agree with you more. this is something that I believe also.

  8. ay2z says:

    SouthernGirl’s link shows that MOM has only two days from today to file his response.

    DATE: May 06, 2013
    ORDERED that Petitioner’s Motion for Extension of Time, filed May 3,
    2013, is granted. Petitioner shall have to and including May 9, 2013, to file a reply to
    Respondent’s April 24, 2013 response

  9. Orders from the 5th DCA

    Benjamin Crump’s Motin for Leave to File Response, filed April 29, is granted

    Click to access 5dca_leave_granted.pdf

    • racerrodig says:

      Yippe Kyaa !! That’s the biggest win they’ve had !!

    • Jun says:

      I do not get what they granted

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Didn’t he ask permission to file a response?

      • ay2z says:

        Jun, there’s a miscellaneous motion filed by Bruce on behalf of Ben, which asked that he be allowed to respond to the Writ of C. Professor explained that the Writ response by Bruce, was signed ‘proposed respondent’ because he was not formally recognized as a respondent.

        The motion granted gives Ben and Bruce, the designation as respondent.

        The motion is filed under miscellaneous and the pdf is on the ‘public information’ link on the homepage of the 5dca.

        BTW, on the same 5dca topic, update to the 5dca docket shows that M’OM has been granted an EOT, (extention of teadline) to reply to response to Writ. Plus a new Misc. Order.

        05/06/2013 Order Grant EOT to Reply to Response 05/09/2013
        05/06/2013 Miscellaneous Order

      • ay2z says:

        EOT, extention of TIME

      • ay2z says:

        Two Sides, think you are right.

      • Jun says:

        I see

        Okay since Omara will have to argue and impartially debate Blackwell, I can foresee him getting owned big time by Blackwell so it is good and even if sided with Omara, they still have nothing anyways because Crump can refuse to answer anything and he also gets to depose Omara based on the ruling

        It’s a win win either way

      • ay2z says:

        Jun, depose O’Mara? That would open a real can of worms, wouldn’t it?!!

        Jailhouse calls between client and wife talking about who knew what about the money before the bond hearing. MOM wouldn’t want that… but he suspects Ben Crump…. talk about proverbial kettles and pots.

  10. Orders from the 5th DCA

    Petitioner’s Motion for Extension of Time, filed May 3, is granted.

    Click to access 5dca_extention_approved.pdf

    • Malisha says:

      Woah for a minute that scared me; I thought there was a motion pending for extension of time until TRIAL!

      This doesn’t worry me at all.

      • Jun says:

        Omara needs more time to convince the appellate that it’s prejudice to use forensics, ballistics, witnesses, and admission to prove Fogen shot Trayvon

        Then will come the PTSD motion due to being a railroaded white man aka afro peruvian

      • ay2z says:

        Yeah, me too, but not, just for the Writ whew!

      • LeaNder says:

        Malisha, I made the same mistake.

        Latest O’Mara motion:
        Admittedly I somehow expected exactly this argument.
        When Mark Esposito (on Jonathan turley’s blog) wrote his article about the two voice analysts agreeing it was in any case not Fogen screaming, someone brought up the same argument in the comment section. Unscientific. Remember?

    • ay2z says:

      Thx SouthernGirl2, makes sense to grant more time since the addition of a new respondent would take time.

    • cielo62 says:

      SG2~ What does this mean? Beyond June 10?

  11. Malisha says:

    I think Trayvon’s school administration had the same kind of ideas about young Black teens looking “real suspicious.”

    There are probably a thousand reasons that a person has non-contraband perfectly legal possessions in a person’s backpack at any particular time. I remember getting rousted in the New York Supreme Court for having plastic toy handcuffs (no key, no lock) in my rolling travel suitcase; it was for a piece of garbage art I was planning to make at the community theater group the same evening. They wouldn’t even give me a receipt for having seized the “hazardous paraphernalia” — and this was pre-9/11 when people were not as routinely terrorized by irrelevant unknown silly things.

  12. Trained Observer says:

    Don’t think he could move that fast, but let’s hope Fatty Fogen doesn’t get any creative ideas … (

    this will be published next fall)

  13. Rachael says:

    I think they are falling out of their tree again. How can they look at the same thing but see the opposite.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Because they’re finding what they’re looking for, thus their “reasoning” has to fold back on itself, instead of being straightforward.

      I mean, just look at the record and what it says, and what you’d expect a real policeman to do if faced with collecting evidence to prove the crime or infraction he’s duty bound to report. Does an officer watch a holdup on a cctv without responding? Of course not! Yet this officer starts by saying that, not only did he not respond to an infraction in a timely fashion, but that: He responded today, to something he viewed on a recording cctv system YESTERDAY!!! Phooey!

      Now ask yourself, what would be the point of searching someone’s bag, if you didn’t already know that you were going to find something?
      This officer didn’t just dream up an excuse to search Trayvon’s bag, he had probably already prepared to plant evidence. Note that the report says that the worthless costume jewelry was returned to it’s owner??? No, that’s not in the official report that’s added in the newspaper story. No mention of where the burglar tool went.

      Plastic baggies without weed in them are easy to find all over the place. Trayvon winds up suspended for being accused of having one, but no one knows what the baggie actually contained. Thus Trayvon wound up suspended, just for having a suspicious looking item in his possession. In fact, it cannot even be determined that the item was in his possession, since the official report says that the baggie was found with other items, in the parking lot, but Trayvon is accused of only having the small plastic baggie. Even the police who look at the report when the FDLE calls, says that the report is an ugly mess!

      Conclusion: Some one was hounding Trayvon! Some one on the MDSPD had it in for Trayvon and was hell bent on causing him trouble and they did. I have to wonder if someone on that force, has a history of creating these mangled processes against black students. It certainly bears looking into, since without this fake mj infraction Trayvon would still be alive. It’s probably not actionable to the nth in this case, but it’s probably actionable enough and it should be investigated and acted upon.

    • Xena says:

      @Jun. I could tell from comments made by Bernie in court that he is on</em? to how the defense releases confidential information. For instance, when he said that he appreciates the defense referring to the witness as "Witness 8." IMO, there is lots more that Bernie knows is going on that we, the public, do not know.

      This isn't the first time that O'Mara slipped in info to the public by way of motion exhibits. He did the same with portions of Santiago's deposition.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Xena, what he has done by releasing Sybrina’s address, is giving some Fogen idiot supporters to make threats or even worse to this woman. if anything happens to this woman, we know who to blame. now I want to see him before the court waving his hands around trying to explain this away.

        That man makes my damn skin crawl and, like his client I can’t stand the sight of him. this was done on purpose.

        • Xena says:

          @ladystclaire. I suspect that if anyone physically attempts to harm Trayvon’s parents and/or DeeDee, that they will be in handcuffs before they can say “uh.”

        • That man makes my damn skin crawl and, like his client I can’t stand the sight of him. this was done on purpose.

          I also believe the address was deliberately disclosed.

          The “inadvertent” excuse has been overused.

    • kllypyn says:

      Those addresses should have been redacted. Does ms fulton have a cause of action for that?

    • Malisha says:

      O’Mara and West need to be sanctioned big-time.

      • Jun says:

        Not only that, but if by their negligence can be sued by Crump

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Malisha, I agree and, I also think he has been asking for those addresses because, there is an agenda between O’Idiot and the tree house and, that is why they were after those addresses of the family of Trayvon and DeeDee. I wonder if the state is going to ask that sanctions be leveled against the defense.

        That’s a damn shame to know that this defense is that dirty and underhanded.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Well I hope he’s no longer there. These tree people would be planning to get him involved in some kind of trouble. Like they did with OJ at the memorabilia fair, some guys who came in with him, who he didn’t even know pulled guns, just as he blurted “nobody move”. Now he in prison because these other guy pulled guns. Meanwhile they got off for testifying against him.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Yes he did and he needs to be sanctioned heavily for it. From the looks of what happened to the suspected DD, MOM placed him a real risk of serious harm. This is not just a dirty trick this is a serious crime!

  14. Not to be a naysayer, but the word “prank” comes to mind. I honestly believe TM was engaged in a prank on his fellow schoolmates when he had those items. I also believe someone said something to the school official to see if he would get in trouble. But one thing that demonstrates bias is the fact that a screwdriver is labeled a “burglary tool” in an effort to villify TM.
    So I see what he is up against. The defendant’s supporters have never left that word.

    If TM was casing homes or looking for an opportunity to rob someone, where was the “burglary tools”?

    • Dave says:

      Actually he was planning to torch a house, as proven by his possession of a cigaret lighter (and no cigarets!).

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      The idea that these encounters with the MDSPD were pranks is obviated by the fact that the encounters are claimed to have been initiated by direct observations made by the police. The claim is that Trayvon was observed by remote cctv system to be engaged in marking up school property by scrawling “WTF” on a door. However, the officer does not move immediately to apprehend him, but instead lets it go and “forgets about the incident” until the next day.

      He encounters Trayvon the next day and decides then, to look in Trayvon’s backpack for the marker.

      There is supposed to be cctv evidence of this claimed infraction, it is no where in the record. There is no evidence at all of the claimed graffiti not a picture of the marked door in an age where cell phones have cameras. All we have is claims that are not substantiated despite the system in place to document such fare.

      We have “jewelry” found of uncertain value, that is handled as we’d expect costume jewelry of no value to be handled, yet we read in the record allusions to it possibly being real and valuable jewelry, possibly obtained using the “burglar tool” found with it.

      Obviously these are not the fixin’s of childhood pranks.

      • I agree that it’s a bullshit case that never would have been charged, but even if the worst suspicions were true and could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, the evidence still would not be admissible in the defendant’s trial.

        This bogus case never should have seen the light of day and whomever is responsible for providing a copy of the report to SPD ought to be fired.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          I think someone in the Miami Dade School Police Dept. was accused of providing it to the Miami Herald. But get this. When the FDLE called Deanna, she called her office and had the requested material printed out and left on her desk. It sat there on her desk all afternoon while she attended the school walkout in Carrol City. But a Miami Herald reporter was seen in the vicinity of her offices, where the reports lay on her desk.

          The Chief gets a report that several officers were seen pulling files and taking pictures and based on that report the Chief requests an IA investigation be opened. That’s when his subordinates begin filing claims of sexual harassment against him and he’s forced to resign.

          Any wonder that I’m left guessing how much who was paid by the Miami Herald? I’ll bet it was a tidy little sum. My guess is Deanna Fox was the recipient, who had the file printed and left on her unsecured desk all afternoon. Whoddathunk, eh? 😆

          And yes, I agree most strongly, the MDSPD and the School District should be sued to within an inch of their very lives if possible.

          To bad it’s too far fetched to theorize that there was some connection between the MDSPD and the foggenaught’s crew, inside the SPD. Boy now would that ever make a great conspiracy theory. But alas, it simply isn’t to be.

  15. fauxmccoy says:

    thank you for this article, professor. you will be pleased to know that i am already familiar with the cases you cited, as my husband and i have cited them both to a jr. high counselor who took it upon herself to search our elder daughter’s person and backpack. our daughter was identified by the actual graffiti perp of writing bad stuff on the wall of the girls bathroom and was later caught (red handed as it were) with a red sharpie in her possession.

    my husband and i were incensed that such a search took place (y’all know how we feel about the 4th amendment) and took it upon ourselves to make damn sure that the counselor and principal had no authority to conduct such searches when student attendance is compulsory. they attempted to disagree and were shown the above mentioned case law. we then made damn sure that the local school district was made aware of such. we have done our good deed for local students and parents yet remain vigilant. our children know that such a search violates their 4th amendment rights and know how to deal with it in the future.

    your article will hopefully provide the same valuable information to other parents who i hope will appreciate.

  16. Jun says:

    Off topic

    But here is a blog post I wrote

    My rant on MLM or pyramid schemes… research before getting conned, yall!!

  17. colin black says:

    o m g……just had an x file momment.

    • Malisha says:


      ??????? ❓

      • colin black says:

        Sorry Im haveing some problems my self with an offical prick trying to make my life difficult .
        Worse than difficult Its difficult to explain an
        Analouge would be its like
        i phoned up the samaritins for help anmy responder decided to stalk me an try an make me commit suicide.

        Honestly thats as best I can reveal at the momment as Im haveing to resort to legal action

        An my real surname iis Black an Ive had shit all my life.
        I used to semi understand it when I lived in Scotland as Blacks a Scotish name .
        With a cheqred History .
        But Ive lived most my life outside Scotland an the predudice continued.
        If some faceles buracrat could screw me over or attempt to they would .

        This prick is the worst yet though.

        Colin is also my

        An I know it breaks all rules in book but its my christian Name
        Luckily there a gazillion colin blacks.

        But my real friggin name is not even an anagram its.

        Col IN Black.

        An what did that officious little murderous bastard foggage do every time he saw a suss Blahck Person?

        He would …..Call In Black…to report he is up to no good dont get his deal….

        But theres going to be one major difference with this one.

        There never able to say Oh Shit He s Runnin.

  18. ay2z says:

    If this search has an influence over the results of the trial, can the estate of Trayvon or the parents of this minor, take action against the school board and those involved?

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Well, on top of the fact that these reports are based on improper procedures, at this time of great stress in the families lives where Trayvon is the subject of a distressing wrongful death. To have the defense, illegally supplied with this salacious and dreadful material through an improper process, causing needless additional grief and anguish, over a report that by right should never have even existed, well, I’d certainly say they have a case.

      Unless Miami-Dade believes they have a good defense, one that a jury will listen to over the tears of an aggrieved mother and father, I would highly recommend that they clean up their act and settle. Of course, they are welcomed to face a jury with their superior knowledge of law enforcement protocols. Some how I don’t think a jury will be very impressed, but then, hey, that’s just me.

  19. kllypyn says:

    My response to a scumbag who has been posting bull crap on the Orlando Sentinel page using my name……Who the hell are you,and why the hell are you using my name to post bull crap. There is no cover up of anything just another bunch of bull crap from the conservative tree house. The baggie was empty,and not relevant.

    The only reason Trayvon’s name was mentioned at all(although redacted) is because of an investigation into why Trayvon’s suspensions were leaked. I do believe using another person’s name to post on the internet with out their knowledge is a possible crime.

    There are no details to come.Tell Sundance the liar he maybe digging himself a hole he can’t get out of. Use your own damned name you low life scum sucking dirt licking sleeze ball. Your lies have been exposed. The conservative Tree houses lies have been exposed. Sundance the liar has been exposed.


    • Is there a sock puppet over at OS using your name? So sorry to hear that and very glad you reported it. Disgusting on any day but stealing someone’s identity to act like an animal is really low, and it may actually be a crime.

      • Dear scum sucking dirt licking sleeze ball, stealing identities:

        (h/t xena for the vid!)

      • LOL @Millie Jackson!

        I’ll have to post this on 3 Chics!

      • I’ve seen them use kllypyn name and avatar. They did the same thing to me and the OS allowed it.

        • Sounds like what they did to Fred on HuffPo. Both of us wrote the form complaint, and they did nothing. So, I don’t use them as a source anymore. Sites that allow identity and avatar theft are lower than the tabloids, IMO.

      • @Crane

        I was stunned stunned the OS allows the rabid racists to post their hate filled screeds all day long. They drown out any and all legitimate discussions. I had never seen anything like it in my life. I found this site by accident. I was reading an article on Firedoglake and decided to click on the link. I am so glad I did. From that day forward I started spreading this link to folks who wanted to have serious discussions about the case.The haters KNOW the professor is right on target in his reporting and that’s why they’re gnashing their teeth.

      • Xena says:

        Listening to two word symphonies can help us feel better. 🙂

      • My final music tribute to those identity thieves on OS:

        Ye ye ye ye yeaaaa, oh lo low low la alaaaaaa….

    • Jun says:

      Dont get angry about it

      They have done that to me repeatedly

      I just report it and ignore it

  20. Bill Taylor says:

    my search skills leave much to be desired, could any of you please link to where fogen claims the number of time he was punched or had his head slammed…… the hannity thing he said he was punched over a dozen times but i am certain i have seen or read he claimed it was 25 to 30 on the punching and over 20 on the head slamming……..even without any particular number it is clear he claimed to have suffered MANY blows to both areas that obviously cant be seen in any pictures.

  21. Shari says:

    Hey racists. Trayvon the murder victim took LOTS of pictures with his phone. I wonder how many pictures he took of the creepy stalker who was following him?

    Tick tock murderer. Your date with the destiny YOU chose is near.

  22. colin black says:

    Its similar to when I listen to Trayvon being murdered.
    The terror in his voice silanced by the shot.

    Ive forced myself to listen an through a booster sound sytem to decypher the words exchanged.

    Becase besides Trayvons Screams begging for mercy you can hear zimman cussing an interogatting him.

    An even more will be revealed to the experts who hear the unredacted tapes.

    We lose about 5 seconds due to redaction when id an phone no given out.

    The most chilling thing of all is as Trayvon lets out his final wail NOOOOOOOOOBANG.

    Just before he shoots him ziman shouts out a feeble help bareley audable unnder Trayvons wail.

    He says help an shoots him
    I M O as he knows he is going to be questioned about the shooting.

    An he knows everyone has heard Trayvon Wails n Screams.
    So he will have to claim he was shouting for help.

    So he gets one feeble help in an pulls the triggger.

    That way he could pass a polygraph.

    Did you shout help.
    Trurthfull answer….Yes.

    If thats not premeditated then Im a dutchman.

    • Good points. Plus, polygraph, shmolygraph. Gary Ridgway passed with flying colors, and he killed 49 women and basically bragged about it.

      • colin black says:

        Exactly thats why there inadmissable as evidence isnt the entire brady statute or law spring from inadmissability of the polygraph.

        Every knew tech type invention or even new processes like d n a have to past the
        Brady test ie is it reliable constant an true.

      • looolooo says:

        I’ve worked in the law enforcement field for years, and have taken 4 polygraphs. Passed one, failed (miserably) the 3 others. Was 100% truthful each time.

        My Police Captain cousin says he did almost nothing but lie about his sordid youth on his numerous polygraphs, yet he has managed to rise through the ranks after having passed each with flying colors.

        They’re useless.

        • Yes, they are. Sociopaths can pass, and people telling the truth can fail. It’s junk science. There are even articles about how to use heart meds to pass those things.

          ‘Voice stress’ analysis as an indication of truth? Pfffffffffft.

      • looolooo says:

        Ssshhhhh. Don’t say that to loudly, for it will surely break the hearts if the Zimbots who boast ad nauseam that Fogenmeister passed a poly and voice stress test.

        Too bad he couldn’t pass his criminal justice exams.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      “So he gets one feeble help in an pulls the trigger”
      So he shot Trayvon just as Witness 6 (to whom GZ said he’d yelled “help me”) went inside to call 911– so W6 wouldn’t see. A psycho/sociopath, and a sadist.

  23. bydesign2010 says:

    Click to access mot_for_evidentiary_hearing.pdf

    Is this just lazy lawyering or am I talking out of the side of my neck? The motion is exceedingly vague in attempting to disqualify the prosecutions expert witnesses. Not to mention that Florida, while technically still a Frye state until Jeb signs the recently passed Daubert bill, also has the “Pure Opinion Exception” which would allow both experts on the prosecutions witness list, Tom Owen and Ed Primeau to testify in the case based on their experience alone. Mark O’Mara needs to hire his own experts if he wants to disqualify the prosecutions. Stop being lazy Mark! Well actually, continue being lazy Mark, you’ll only make the prosecutions job that much easier.

    • Hold up, he wants a Frye hearing to say whaaa…keep the experts out, or keep the (inculpatory) tape out? Experts or not, wait….

      Dear Mr. O’Mara:

      That tape. Speaks for itself. Seriously.

    • Jun says:

      They are called ears, which are hearing biological devices nature gave all living creatures, including plants

      Even I can tell it’s not Fogen, so an expert should be able to get it down to the most thorough degree over me

      • kllypyn says:

        I don’t need a so called expert to tell me what i can clearly hear on my own. That was obvious a teenager screaming. i knew the second the first word was screamed that was Trayvon.

        So will the jury if they are normal rational people. There is no way a person male female or teenager who is armed with a 9mm weapon will scream like that. Zimmerpunk knows that as well..

      • kllypyn says:

        You can hear the fear in his voice. You can hear the panic in his voice and worse of all you can tell he’s crying. I think thtas why Ms Fulton became hysterical when she first heard it.

        I also believe the Sanford police knew that wasn’t Zimmerman screaming otherwise the Martins wouldn’t have needed to sue to have it released. The only reason they released them is because the mayor of Sanford forced them to.

  24. acemayo says:

    racerrodig says:

    May 6, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    The event that caused Trayvon’s suspension the week he was senselessly murdered was an empty baggie was found in a locker he shared with another student. I’d bet this was another illegal search and seizure as well. Not only that, there was no residue, just the odor……as if that would be strong evidence in any court.

    Question one if TM share a locker with someone was thee student
    also suspened. How did they know it was TM was his name on it.
    Question is it possible that TM like jewelry may he wanted to a designer
    About ten years ago a black male had a screw driver in his pocket
    he and other white was in an augrument when the black got up
    to get off the bus the white male shot him saying he had an weapon.
    A black undercover cop had an screw driver in his pocket his fellow
    cops shot dead cause he was going after a weapon(screw driver)
    but was going for his badge to show them.
    A the boston bombing on the news a black male was try to drive
    through a restricted area they told not to, he must his hoodie on
    and drove off but it was reported he put his hood to hide his face.
    No matter what a black male do it must be wrong

    • ay2z says:

      I’ve heard that kids who skateboard, will often have a screwdriver in their backpack. Don’t know first hand that bparders do this, but makes sense, just like having a bike tire repair kit along when you ride.

      • Shari says:

        Yes my son has a skateboard and a screwdriver is necessary.

        I think it’s ridiculous that we must even refute this smear. But lets continue addressing the smears.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        My kids always carried what they called a skate tool, which was a combination tool. And sometimes a screwdriver too.

  25. Rachael says:

    Interesting article about the he accuracy and reliability of the sound spectrograph and the Frye test.

  26. two sides to a story says:

    *on rant* There are many abuses such as this going on in myriad schools across America and though white students are abused, there is more abuse suffered by non-white students.

    One of my children – mixed black, white, NA, and an honors student, used their cell phone in the lunch room of a middle school in a SW state now well-known for it’s brazen acts of racism. Phones were not allowed to be used at all during school hours on her middle school campus. I always told my kids that they should leave their phones at home, but most kids would take their phones in their back packs and simply keep them shut them off, because they sometimes needed them to stay in touch more easily with family and friends after school, this being a rural area with a very large (in area) school district with a significant number of kids riding school buses for significant distances.

    At any rate, the usual procedure for catching kids (white) using phones was to confiscate them – shut phones off, take phones to the office, and notify parents to pick the phone up. Sometimes some detention time during school hours was applied – they couldn’t keep kids after school because most needed to catch buses.

    But with my child – never mind being an honor student and popular with peers and teachers – the texts were read and pictures stored in the phone examined, ostensibly because the school administration was “preventing gang violence.” There was no gang violence in this town – and this school was the only one in town that had security cameras, etc. – even the HS, where there were sometimes fights between kids of different races, they didn’t outlaw carrying phones or have security cameras in the school.

    Anyway, the vice principal found a text in my child’s phone from a former student who had moved to CA with a picture of my child’s name doodled in chalk on a sidewalk. A doodle! They determined that this was “gang tagging” and called me to pick up the phone. When I left work, I made a beeline to the school, picked up the phone, took it straight to the police department, and filed a complaint.

    The school officer said they couldn’t do anything about it, that schools operate on their own set of rules and that it would be a court matter (which I knew), but the school officer also openly admitted she had seen the school administrators do many illegal and questionable things and also harass non-white kids. Being a small town, I’m sure word filtered back to the school about my complaint (my motive) and no one bothered my child again – and fortunately, school was only in session a couple more months.

    The school had also mistreated another of my children the year before (another long story), so the superintendent’s office and I were not strangers. Basically, the attitude coming from that particular school was distinctly racist – that racism was also admitted to me “off the record” by an interim superintendent the year prior – but it wasn’t until two years after these incidents that this principal suddenly left his MS post and went to work as an elementary principal.

    However, the vice principal involved became principal . . . and so the story goes. We were very relieved when both my kids were finally in HS and not subjected to this school administration any more.

    I’ve seen far too many teachers, school administrators and even guidance counsellors with nasty attitudes who are basically forced to resign from one school end up with jobs at other schools . . . schools in America tend to operate as little fiefdoms and depending on how the state districts are set up, sometimes superintendents have little or no control of school administrators. Sometimes the state boards of education can’t do much either, or are difficult to work with. Sometimes only complaints to the Federal Board of Education will have any effect, and then violations of various types can be hard to prove uniess there are significant numbers of students and families being violated and willing to speak up.

    *off rant* :-/

    • lurker says:

      Tough situation. I have experienced similar situations with my kids in an urban district. Always tough to know how much fuss to kick up when your kid is being poorly treated or rights violated. Things have a funny way of coming back on the kid if their parent is too much of an advocate.

      One of my kids had some protections under IDEA, frequently overlooked. It was incredibly frustrating to go through a knock-down drag out one year to get something in place, and convince the school that yeah, they really did have to follow the rules–only to move on the next year to a new teacher/class or school and have to start the process all over again. Only once did I feel as though we got a policy changed. And that required the Feds–Office of Civil Rights. And it was too late to help my kid. Still, glad that I did it.

  27. ay2z says:

    (note that today, 10 days since April 24th, is the deadline for the Petitioner to file it’s response to the Attorney General’s response to the Petition for Writ of Centiorari.

    The Petitioner has filed a Motion for Extention of Time dated May 3, 2013. No word from this request yet from the 5th.

    The Appellee had 20 days to file the response to the Writ, the Petitioner was to file it’s answer to the Attorney General within 10 days but filed a couple days early.

    Why would that not be enough time? Oh yeah, MOM had to go talk to Jean over at the HLN portable studio Tuesday afternoon about the voice ID issue, and all morning was tied up with Motions to Whine (priority over the 5dca deadline apparently) to prepare and file and hear.

    Will the 5th entertain the motion to for more time? If denied, would they advise the Petitioner before today’s deadline?

    • ay2z says:

      oops… “The Appellee had 20 days to file the response to the Writ, the Petitioner was to file it’s answer to the Attorney General within 10 days but filed a couple days early.”

      The state filed its response a couple days earlier than deadline… sorry. Petitioner hasn’t responded yet. (my bad)

  28. Shari says:

    I just find it insane that Fogen/Thugboats attorneys are actually using the rantings of internet trolls to craft legal strategy. They continue talking about school records, Crump, and DeDe. They refuse to defend the charges he has to answer to. Murder in the 2nd degree. The state did not charge him with racism.

    Is this reality? His lawyers are actually contacting that blog and getting legal advice there? And all this time they didn’t ASSUME the state was reading every word. What rank amateurs. I said it in the other thread. Racism is a mental disease.

    • two sides to a story says:

      Many people at the Treestump and other blogs supporting Fogen have commented throughout the case that they e-mail info to the defense team. So yes, actually, it’s quite true. And the defense team openly solicited supporters to do internet research for them. It’s quite possible that they only receive e-mails without comment and actually have little to do with the people who send them suggestions, but they are clearly sent suggestions.

    • BDLR made no secret of his contempt for the defense team’s reliance on the CTH for strategic advice.

      I can’t help but wonder if soliciting and taking their advice isn’t malpractice as a matter of law.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Isn’t it the equivalent of opening the window and asking passers-by for legal advice?

        • racerrodig says:

          Pretty close but I think he’s walking down the hall ways of an Insane Asylum and asking for legal advice. Maybe he’s a huge Jack Nicholson fan…..

          Maybe this is a scene from O’ Mara’s law firm…..just sayin’…..

      • abbyj says:

        Professor, If the defense team (such as it is) has solicited advice from the CTH and implemented it, it certainly would appear that they are indebted to the CTH klan for forking over money to them. Obligation makes strange bedfellows, and money is what appears to motivate O’Mara most, beyond all reason. Those who pay the piper call the tune.

      • Xena says:

        It has certainly wasted much of the defense’s time and efforts, as well as that of the court and prosecutors. For instance, West took time in court to have it established that voice analysis is discoverable, but now O’Mara doesn’t want it discovered.

        • racerrodig says:

          Don’t ya just wish they’d make up their minds ??

          • Xena says:


            Don’t ya just wish they’d make up their minds ??

            Oh yeah. First time ever I’ve seen attorneys ask the court for something on the basis of it being Brady material, but now ask that the court take it back because it will prejudice their client. LOL!!

          • racerrodig says:

            Just so we’re on the same page…..

            1) Facts, are prejudicial
            2) DNA, is prejudicial
            3) Eye witness’s, are prejudicial
            4) Fogens statements, are prejudicial
            5) Forensics, are prejudicial
            6) Experts, are prejudicial
            7) Phone records, are prejudicial
            8) Application of the Law, is prejudicial
            9) Common Sense, is prejudicial
            10) Gravity, is prejudicial

            Okay…..did I miss anything ?????

          • Xena says:


            Okay…..did I miss anything ?????

            Well, 10 is the number for perfection, so I ain’t messin’ with your list. 🙂

          • racerrodig says:

            So we’re on the same page then?? Hey, feel free to add what I may have missed.

          • Xena says:

            @racerrodig. Nothing to add. I don’t mess with perfection. 🙂

          • racerrodig says:

            I don’t know about perfect….but I must say, it’s accurate.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            All of which tends to make the defense look just tad clownish don’t you think?

            The thing that grossed me out was, when Judge Nelson was trying to list all the ways the defense had claim that they had been prejudiced by prosecutorial infractions, O’haha stops her and says that he can’t keep track of them himself.

            Wha??? Mr. O’mara, you mean to say you’re making all these accusatory claims and you can’t be bothered to keep track of them? But the judge should do that for you, and rule on them in your favor, besides? Judge Nelson did just what she was supposed to do, she straightened those papers up and set them aside.

            Obviously if O’mara isn’t concerned enough to be able to keep track of his own claims, he can’t be prepared to argue in their defense. Whether or not he realizes it, he has asked the Judge to ignore and/or dismiss his motions, which ever suits her best.

            I think from here on, O’Mara will no longer be excused from procedure as he has been so far. He’s going to need to dot his “i’s” and cross his “t’s”. What a foole

          • Ya know I haven’t quite got a grip on MOM or Skeletor….

            It’s like their actions are through a kaleidoscope… minute it’s one thing…..the next it’s another.

            I don’t believe their doing this to buy fogen time and an appeal through ineffective counsel, as that would look bad on them.

            It’s gotten to be a real dog & pony show their putting on……with RZjr. & galdass on the sidelines.

            One thing I have noticed in the hearings so far?….MOM & Skeletor are scared to death of Bernie…And Judge Nelson is none to happy with them………

            HOODIES UP

            BTW….May 8th…..It’s snowing again 😐

          • racerrodig says:

            Is it too much trouble to send us some snow ?? We didn’t get much this year. So little in fact I didn’t even need my snow blower to clean the driveway……which is 300 feet long.

            Anyway, I’m thinking Fogen may have some Manson like hold on his lawyers. Kind of like this……….


          • Anyone who fogen could hypnotize ….would also be able to be hypnotized by a Goldfish

          • racerrodig says:

            Well, there ya go……maybe Red Swedish Fish… fav.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            I’ll go along with you on that, they don’t seem to know or care what they’re doing and I think it’s because they’ve come to understand that GZ is just one big lump of despicable flesh that even they don’t care about anymore. He’s stupid, a braggart, self centered, self absorbed, spoiled brat and a narcissistic sociopath. The more they see of him the more disgusted they become.

          • racerrodig says:

            Clownish and Fool are putting it mildly. Un – freaking – believable.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            It’s like two of the Stooges have taken to defending GZ. When will the third one appear? Oh… Wait, equal rights, now they can have a female stooge right? How about Rene? 😆

          • racerrodig says:

            What about O’ Mara’s sidekick, Fogen’s babysitter Lorna Truett ? or is she just “eye candy”

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            She’s not as “stoogie” as Rene. Rene comes on in her column as about as airheaded as they come. Nice addition to the crew she’d be, with O’mara making with the Moe fingers and nose pinch/slap. She has the face for it too.

          • racerrodig says:

            RS is pretty rank, that’s for sure.

      • Rachael says:


        “It has certainly wasted much of the defense’s time and efforts, as well as that of the court and prosecutors. For instance, West took time in court to have it established that voice analysis is discoverable, but now O’Mara doesn’t want it discovered.”

        June 10th can’t get here soon enough. I am SO sick of these games. The defense is all guilty of wasting time and tax money. And other people’s money. It’s like they don’t seem to realize just how close this is.

        • Xena says:

          @Rachael. In his press conference in August 2012, O’Mara said he would be ready for trial in about 5 to 6 months. It was during the same press conference that he said that they were not moving faster because of waiting on the decision on whether or not Judge Lester would be recused.

          So we can see that during the 5 to 6 months thereafter, the only thing O’Mara has moved on are treeslum conspiracy theories. There are times I actually believe that he hired on Don West for the express purpose of getting a hard-on for attorney Crump.

          In hearings beginning about October 2012, O’Mara and West spent time trying to get Judge Nelson to overrule Judge Lester’s orders.

          O’Mara looks like a fool each time he raises an argument thinking that Bernie has forgotten what has occurred before the court.

      • Jun says:

        An unpartial, objective, unbiased jury, is gonna figure out it’s Trayvon screaming for help

        By simply listening to on scene witnesses and the 911 scream tape, it is fairly obvious of that fact

        An expert is a person who is accredited (not Mike Knoxx) in audio forensics and their testimony and research is weighed by a jury

        I dont feel it is biased to have them testify about the obvious, that it is not Fogen

        At the end of the day, the judge and jury weighs it for themselves

        I believe Omara wants to see it presented before the trial because he is trying to think of a good argument but Omara sucks at debating anything in a fair impartial manner

        He’s obviously afraid of the tape because even if only Papa Z and Joonyah testify, the jury will see that they are both liars and are biased, and it is based on the audio footage and the witnesses on scene, which is why he wants no one testifying about the voice

      • parrot says:

        I wish I knew all that BDLR knows.

        He must have clear electronic evidence of the ties between the CTH and the defense team to assert his contempt in a court of law.

  29. Rachael says:

    Whether the search of Trayvon Martin’s backpack in school was unreasonable and unlawful, has NOTHING to do with what happened that night.

    I don’t care if the jewelry was found to be real or reported to be missing. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT HAPPENED THAT NIGHT.

    Did GZ NEVER said Trayvon was DOING anything other than “looking” suspicious.

    He did not see Trayvon in the ACT of anything.

    Yet after he called the police to let them do their job, he got out of his vehicle and took matters into his own hands regardless if his suspicions were right or wrong.

    Not trying to belittle your article because yes, I do believe they search kids illegally (BTDT with my own teenager in high school), but it has NOTHING, not ONE THING to do with this case legal or illegal, no matter how much Sundance wants it to.

    • racerrodig says:

      For being a true nobody Sundance Crackpot sure likes to call the shots.

      • Justchill says:

        When did he drop the “cracker” part? I am assuming it must’ve been right around the time he took up the killer’s cause and insisted this was not a racially motivated crime?

      • Rachael says:

        I don’t know if this is true, but it was posted he dropped it when he learned of this:

      • two sides to a story says:

        Sundance Cracker dropped the cracker meme when he found out –


        • racerrodig says:

          “…and his hands pulling his buttocks apart so his anus is clearly visible….” (Sorry to quote the graphic part)

          As if this anus isn’t really visible !!! Ppppppffffttt A hahahahahaha

      • two sides to a story says:

        LOL, Rachel, I didn’t see your post – I hadn’t refreshed. Sorry for the duplicate! :}

      • What the…Oh wow, no wonder he dropped that part.

        • racerrodig says:

          But since the Law allows, we can call him almost anything we want.

          We won’t call him (for) ……

          1) Dinner…..because he’s a racist pig
          2) Over to watch a ball game…..because he’d refer to the black
          athletes with some derogatory reference.
          3) A nice guy……that would make us liars !!
          4) Intelligent….one need just to read his posts
          5) Unbiased…..(see #4 above)

          And I think this list can be expounded upon by all members of Team Trayvon.

      • Jun says:

        LOL do we really even need to make any effort to make fun of Sundance Cracker of Conservative Treefort?

        He seems to do a pretty good job of owning himself repeatedly

      • abbyj says:

        @Rachael, Haha! Looks like that handle Sundance Cracker chose bit him right in the @zz. Funny!!! Thanks for the laugh. Whoooo.

      • Deborah says:

        @Racerrodig: I was born the day JFK was assassinated so I have deep feelings about that even though I was an infant. Unfortunately the T-baggers blame President Obama for that one even though he was 2 years old?? LOL!

        • racerrodig says:

          From the day I could see the racism by these nut’s I’ve been “breaking ’em” because they deserve it. I was 8 when JFK was assassinated. I got into the conspiracy thing long ago and when the Zidiots get into the preposterous garbage I lay “I was the guy on the grassy knoll” but since it takes an IQ of at least room temperature, they just don’t get it.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Their mental capacity is a throwback to a time before man’s ancestors left the oceans. A real shame, but they do keep trying to modernize their thinking, they are the world’s biggest consumers of smart pills on the planet. Does it work? Well, fewer of them hold deeds to the Brooklyn Bridge today, than in any other decade, so something must be right.

      • cielo62 says:

        I don’t know. I heard he just got off the phone… and has another biggie that will blow this case wide open!!

        • racerrodig says:

          Let me guess. It’s Trayvon’s fault because he wasn’t fast enough to dodge the bullet. If he had reacted quicker, knowing he was innocent, this would not have happened…’s coming.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Well, so far everything he’s uncovered has revealed police misconduct. So I can’t wait for the next wave of revelations.
          He’s been operating like a 48 inch gun pointed straight at the defenses head. But not to worry, I think that GZ’s Toxicity is more powerful than his support. We’ll just have to wait and see which one wins out.

      • Rachael says:

        Oh good. If it’s as “big” as the last one, that might just be enough entertainment to last me until the actual trial along with the antics of the “defense.”

      • Rachael says:

        Anyway, all he’s blowing open is his *SS.

        • racerrodig says:

          I had to laugh heartily last month at his “Just got off the phone….” post where he said he has information that will blow the case wide open.

          Well, where is it……?????

          Maybe this is what happened..

          SD “Just got off the phone (with my racist brother in law) and we talked about (racist banter) and he said (I hate XXXXXXXX) so I said me too. Then he said did you hear about (insert lies about Trayvon Martin) and I said Holy shit, that will blow the case wide open”

          Because that’s all they have. Hatred and lies……always a bad combination.

      • Shari says:

        Oh my, my eyes can’t not un read what I read. I have never heard of this sundance cracker term. It is hilarious that a conservative treehouse member has been calling himself that!

      • Jun says:

        The only thing blown wide open is the fact that Sundance Cracker is a wacko, much like how his name represents a graphic homosexual sex position

      • abbyj says:

        @racerrodig, [re: graphic description] and here I thought that was a reference to the avatar of Sundance’s face.

        • racerrodig says:

          That’s a good one. I’m waiting for someone to find him ripping us apart for “…talking bad about him…” ya know, being he’s such a good guy and all.

          I think his house has a flat tire…….just sayin’

      • Jun says:

        I believe the term from the 50’s is tomfoolery

        It’s the year 2013, and I thought in the 50’s, it was already established that Tomfoolery is not credible

        Sundance is breaking new grounds

        What is Sundance’s next development?

        That Fogen is not really Afro-Peruvian

        • racerrodig says:

          “That Fogen is not really Afro-Peruvian”

          That’s what will break the case wide open !! You did it !

      • Nef05 says:

        Oh geez!!! Sometimes my curiosity takes me places I really would rather not have been. I could have happily lived my whole life without knowing that – now I can’t unknow it! My kingdom for a bottle of brain bleach!

    • I get the impression you didn’t read this part of my article:

      Even if this were true, of course, the defendant would not have known it, and since the narrative description that he provided to the NEN dispatcher did not establish a reasonable suspicion to believe Trayvon was “up to no good,” he had no justifiable reason to follow and confront him. In addition, unless juvenile burglars in Miami are aggressive and violent MMA style ninja fighters who like to assault and kill people with their bare hands just for grins, the evidence would be inadmissible.

      Therefore, this snipe hunt is going nowhere fast. It’s an absolute waste of time and money when the defense should be assembling a team of experts to review all of the reports, raw data and bench notes generated by the State’s experts.

      I wrote the article to inform parents about their children’s rights in school.

      • Rachael says:

        I read it. I was just wanted to say what I said – as well, like I said, my own child was a victim of having his rights trampled. I was informed they didn’t even need to notify parents. However, when I informed them that any time an officer was present to question my child, I wanted to be notified and they obliged.

      • Shari says:

        I understand why you published the post. They continue on with irrelevant issues like which picture of the victim to distribute and why he was staying with his father. It’s useful to dismantle every point they THINK they have.

        I said racism is a mental disorder. Racist conservatives show their faux concern for black children by asking where black fathers are. Here we have a black father parenting his child and that’s not good enough. He reported his son missing and they didn’t have the decency to level with him. They knew who the victim was that night.

        Tracy and Sybrina have shown such patience and grace under fire. I’m not sure I could do it. Watch the thughboat free to live his life while awaiting trial. As parents we always want to be there to protect our babies. How terrible to know in their childs hour of need they weren’t there. I hope they aren’t blaming themselves.

        May they find peace.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      Dufus defendant never even said he looked suspicious, he said he was a “real suspicious guy.” Didn’t look suspicious, wasn’t doing anything suspicious… and the Florida Department of Agriculture hands Dufus a Concealed Carry Permit.

      • abbyj says:

        @CercandoLuce, The defendant called him a “real suspicious guy,” and that set the action in motion. What I object strenuosly to is there is no concrete description of a single illegal or “suspicious” action of Trayvon Martin’s to the NEN. There is no “He’s looking in residential windows,” or “He’s trying to pry open a townhouse door.” Not even “He’s flailing about and stumbling.” Just that word “suspicious” ever-so vaguely supported with the defendant’s eloquent observation: “He looks like he’s on drugs or sumptin.” And that Trayvon was “walking slow.” There is not a single word conveyed to NEN to describe any action by Martin that warranted the defendant’s concern, let alone police action. . . and yet fogen (slurring his words) was the one on drugs with a concealed weapon.

        • cielo62 says:

          Don’t forget my favorite, “he was reaching for his waistband”.

          Sent from my iPod

          • racerrodig says:

            “…he’s just looking at all the houses…..looking about….”

            Yep…..I defy anyone to find a broken law in that one. Maybe having a button of a family member is illegal….??

            This is one trial that will be a laugh riot when the defense starts moving.

          • Xena says:


            “…he’s just looking at all the houses…..looking about….”

            But notice in his re-enactment when GZ says that, he’s at the clubhouse leaving Trayvon behind him, around the corner.

          • racerrodig says:

            Exactly……everything he’s said is in conflict with, well……everything he’s said.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Yeah, he’s following Trayvon from in front of him, but he’s not telling us how he knew which way Trayvon would go? Odd enough for ya?

          • Xena says:

            @Lonnie Starr

            Yeah, he’s following Trayvon from in front of him, but he’s not telling us how he knew which way Trayvon would go? Odd enough for ya?

            Odd, and also odd that he would later say that he thought Trayvon was long gone, but yet say refuse to give the dispatcher his address on the basis of “I don’t know where this kid is.”

            Another one — telling Singleton that he walked back towards Trayvon.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            He’s such a liar I can’t stand looking at his face anymore!

          • racerrodig says:

            Just when we thought it was safe to look again……

            “….shit….he’s running” The tone of voice….as if it was “Game on”

            Not, “Officer…thanks a lot, but he ran…..I don’t see him” If I see him anywhere else and hes doing something suspicious…I’ll call again”

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Let’s try to keep a count of the number of times the jurors register shock!

          • racerrodig says:

            I have a small flat screen TV in my shop so when I am at my Carburetor / Engine Assembly work bench, I can look at whats on. I have the audio out hooked to a stereo so I can play the volume up and hear it anywhere in the shop.

            I’m thinking that sometime in the next 3 weeks I’ll be buying a few more TV’s so I won’t miss any reaction by the jurors anywhere in the shop………….that or close the shop down.

            (Sign on front door) “Closed for PhuckingFogenPhoole Trial”

          • Just get a pull down screen and put it on ur helmet……

          • racerrodig says:

            I could put a small screen om my racing helmet…you’re right…..and I’d look cool as well.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Or my favorite: “He didn’t look like an athlete training in the rain.”

          • racerrodig says:

            “Or my favorite: “He didn’t look like an athlete training in the rain.”

            Which begs this…..are athletes training in the rain suspicious ?? would FogenPhoole have stopped oh….say….Ray Lewis if he was there? I’m thinking Fogen’s toast….

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Too bad the trial isn’t going to be that long, I’d like to hear him explain to BDLR what he thought an athlete, training in the rain would look like. Then explain why he was doing this kind of analysis. After all, this was just an ordinary kid walking in the rain. If GZ had a question about what the kid was doing, you don’t sneak along behind the child and follow him home. You walk up to him, introduce yourself and ask.

            GZ is not some undercover agent on a secret government mission! He’s not even a police officer on a public mission. He’s just a stupid jerk behind the wheel of an unpaid for vehicle, who’s behind in his rent and carrying a weapon on patrol in the dark chasing children.

            He caught the child and killed him, now he’s going to prison for life!
            No more double cheeseburgers from Mc Dee’s.

          • racerrodig says:

            “…what he thought an athlete, training in the rain would look like. ”

            Wet ?? just like Trayvon was ?? Nothing suspicious there.

            FogenPhoole….Agent 666

      • Cercando Luce says:

        You can hear GZ working himself up into a froth OVER NOTHING, and the State of Florida Department of Agriculture (which issues the concealed carry permits) and ex-Sanford law enforcement enable this raver to kill at random.

        No wonder Trayvon Martin was walking slowly– he hoped this unprovoked nut would get bored and pass him by. At least the detective Serino could perceive the threat displayed by the defendant to the victim well before he exited his vehicle.

    • Jun says:

      Even if they truly want to go there, and it is allowed (Freddy says it is inadmissible, but let’s play charades)

      Fogen has a history of kicking dogs, molesting and attempting to rape his cousin, attacking cops, bullying his arabic co-worker, scheming and hiding passports and money, terrorizing his neighborhood with his aggressive “patrols” repeatedly and whiel armed, beating up his ex, attacking a woman at his security job, threatening neighbors, talking about committing violence against mexicans, talking about getting others to take the fall for him, and stalking and killing a kid (murder 2)

      If that stuff gets in, it sounds like Trayvon, had a reasonable suspicion of the creepy white/afroperuvian who was stalking him at night time in a car and chasing him on foot, while Fogen was armed with a gun…

      so using their logic, Trayvon had every right to defend himself

  30. racerrodig says:

    The event that caused Trayvon’s suspension the week he was senselessly murdered was an empty baggie was found in a locker he shared with another student. I’d bet this was another illegal search and seizure as well. Not only that, there was no residue, just the odor……as if that would be strong evidence in any court.

    • Jun says:

      It’s called beating a dead horse and massive amounts of shamelessness

      The police even established that they thought he may have had stolen jewelry and a burglary tool and then the police admit that there was nothing to establish their suspicion nor did they even bother to do a valued estimation of the jewelry so in a legal and common sense standpoint, even while alive, the kid was innocent, but the Sundance Crackers want to take him to court after death (Lord Have Mercy)

      And as you said regarding the empty baggie which they “perceived” to have once contained marijuana – there was no conclusive evidence that it contained marijuana, and it seems the locker was shared so it may not even be Trayvon’s baggie, so legally standing, the kid was innocent, yet they want to try to convict on sloppy “evidence” after death

      Next, they will claim Trayvon shot JFK, even though he was not even born yet

      • racerrodig says:

        “Next, they will claim Trayvon shot JFK, even though he was not even born yet”

        I was the one on the grassy knoll I keep telling the Zidiots, but they won’t bite. They keep putting all their effort into making Black Dynamite Slim responsible for crimes committed even when he was several hundred miles away.

      • kllypyn says:

        His parents wasn’t even born yet.

      • Jun says:

        Well racer, you know their incredible argument to prevent blacks from being arrested LOL

        • racerrodig says:

          The sheer stupidity they exhibit does not bode well for the collective IQ of man.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            The whole MDSPD investigation is so slipshod it cannot possibly be the result of a standard operating procedure, thus this all must be some kind of extraordinary procedure. As a general rule, Blacks are not helped by extraordinary procedures. Most especially not in Florida, period.

          • racerrodig says:

            No doubt about that.

      • Jun says:

        Perhaps Sundance Cracker is the reason for low GPA averages of their respective states

    • Trained Observer says:

      Just the odor, huh? Some folks love the smell of napalm in the morning, too. Miami/Dade Public Schools likely will need to explain this search, sniff and seizure biz to the legal team at Parks & Crump. I smell another settlement a comin’ for Trayvon’s foundation,

      • racerrodig says:

        I’m kinda thinking the same thing since it was leaked and look at the damning talk it produced.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          After reading through the MDSPD report, there’s quite a bit of confusion, it seems that this paraphernalia, baggies, pipes and drug stuff, wasn’t found in either Trayvon’s locker or backpack, but out in the parking lot. The other stuff was listed as “found property” with no owner and only the plastic baggies were put on Trayvon. Parks and Crump need to get on this right away. To clear up exactly what did happen to get Trayvon suspended. Since the MDSPD is the source of great mental anguish and suffering for the parents, coming on top of his wrongful death, and the internet abuse this very material has allowed and created. In the hands of racists and white supremacist and gun freaks, it has produce sheer torture for the family who must come across these terrible remarks from time to time on the net and by various messaging schemes. Including references to them and reports of them. All because of the failure of the MDSPD to first adhere to proper procedures and then to allow this sensitive material to illegally escape their security.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Oh and while we’re on the subject of smell, there are plenty of other things that smell like cannabis. And they’re not so hard to find by people who have net access. Making it just as likely that some kind of practical joke or scam was being played, as it is that the baggie ever contained any weed.

        Now just imagine your child was suspended from school for having a small baggie of oregano? Anything wrong with this picture?

  31. racerrodig says:

    When I was in HS they had a published policy that anything on school grounds…….anything….was subject to search. Dad, being a cop, told me otherwise. They could only search what they owned.

    Of course I had to respect a guy who came home from work with a gun on his hip and never drank or smoked anything, nor any other drugs, so I was safe. But once in awhile, and this was the early 70’s, the school would go right down the hall and open every locker.

    The town solicitor stated they could not search anything at all, but could look into any locker. One of my fellow students who was on a school trip at the time was found to have a small about of weed (I can never spell marijuana) in his locker and was arrested when he walked on school grounds. It hit the fan at that point and it turns out his locker partner came forward and said “Give me my weed back”


    By the way, one of the detectives in town that I do work on his hot rod has stated what you have about the seizure of Trayvon’s backpack as illegal as it could get.

    Where are the pictures of the alleged evidence. We both think it’s fabricated from the Git Go.

  32. looneydoone says:

    These illegal searches have been going on for several years in public schools across ‘merica. Additionally, in some districts drug sniffing canines are brought to campus and spend the day with handlers sniffing around for *contraband*

    It’s just another example of the abuses wrought by the 42 year long, failed “war on drugs”

    I was here first 😉

    • kllypyn says:

      I personally don’t believe anyone has any right to search personal ,property whether it is on school grounds or not if it doesn’t belong to the school don’t touch without permission. Lockers on the other hand are school property they can search them at anytime.

      that police officer had no right to search Trayvon’s back pack without his consent or a warrant whether Trayvon gave consent or not is unknown. I was sent home because i refused to let the principal search my back pack. i didn’t like people touching my stuff. i’m incredibly stubborn.

      • Deborah says:

        @Kllypyn: I am with you! My mom stated, that I was always a hothead militant like she was! In my school, I knew my rights thanks to my future now Attorney brother, and a teacher asked to search my book bag and my pocketbook, I told her to come back with a search warrant and she could search it. She wanted to know why I was so defensive? I informed her that I was not defensive but she had no right to search anyone’s book bag and she knew it! Anyway, in my bag she would only find surgical scissors, a stethoscope and books for my Nursing Classes!

        To think that hese events is why TM was suspended, sent to Sanford, and then look what transpired because of that illegal event? SMH. That is very sad to me. They Zidiots want to continually bring up this nonsense like this has anything to do with his getting shot??

      • lurker says:

        Deborah, I agree–the school event was out of line. However, I would add that such things occur in schools, and particularly schools in which there is a high minority population, frequently. Many have written about the school-to-prison-pipeline as it exists for black males. This is a piece of how it operates. Black males are suspended and expelled disproportionately, and tend to receive more severe punishment compared to whites for the same or similar infractions.

        In essence, what is frequently in play is a family trying to keep their kid in school and learning and a school system designed to push them out. And there is a a link between suspension/expulsion/course failure and dropping out. And frequently suspension or expulsion is the result of a particularly vague infraction like “insubordination,” in other words, a failure to demonstrate proper respect and obedience to those in authority.

        This is the number one reason why the Treehouse belief that Trayvon attacked a school bus driver (based on a supposed friend’s tweet that he “took at swing”) should be treated with highest levels of suspicion. A black male who swings at an adult employed by a school district will be gone–expelled, probably charged in court. I have explained this elsewhere, always countered by the belief that schools are afraid of punishing black kids. Sorry folks, the facts say otherwise.

        Thanks for the post, Professor.

    • abbyj says:

      Good to see you, LD. Agreed. The searches have definitely been rampant, including lately bringing drug-sniffing dogs into schools to check for “drug contraband.” We’ve seen it here in CA. Without probable cause, this is such a violation of Constitutional rights–and where is it written that a citizen forfeits these rights because he’s 16 or 17 years old? The War on Drugs is such a joke.

      • looneydoone says:

        My honor roll, high school student ,daughter had her photo placed in the “associate” category for local gangs because of her effin socks !
        Yes, her white ,name brand crew socks were gang attire !!!

      • abbyj says:

        LD, You are kidding me. Your daughter was labeled a gang member because of her white crew socks?? Soon, the only way to be safe and not be under suspicion is for all students to wear nothing but Hefty bags with holes for the head and arms. Damn.

      • looneydoone says:

        No, not labeled a gang member, but identified as being “associated with” due to the type of socks she was wearing.
        Long story short, I raised hell and was successful in having her profile removed from the school’s gang specialist’s album.

        This happened in So Cal, coastal community where wearing white crew socks with flip flops is considered appropriate cold weather footwear ! This was year’s ago when assigning gang task force members to schools first began.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        One of my kids was once told in a rural area school with no gangs that the way he had buttoned his shirt on a particular day was gang attire. Sure thing. The school administration never said this crap to white students.

      • Jun says:

        There’s actually some alleged studies on it and it goes like this for the US:

        1) Black and Latino males are the most likely to be targeted by police for suspicious and rights infringed by illegal and warrantless searches so an unfair search

        2) Then comes white people being the second most likely

        3) Asians are the least likely to be given an unfair search or be seen as suspicious, with the exception of middle eastern and South Asian people

      • LeaNder says:

        Lonnie, the link does not work for me. 😉

      • pat deadder says:

        I wonder who the army recruiters target first.

    • cielo62 says:

      Is it ANY wonder many kids and adults don’t trust cops? I don’t and I certainly don’t lie to my stduents and tell them that cops will look out for them.

      • Jun says:

        In a way, yes, because some people are crooked and it may lead to generalization that all cops are bad, because of some crooked cops

        I have never met every cop but not every cop is a bad person, IMO

      • Trained Observer says:

        Depending on what comes out under oath at trial from any of Trayvon’s character witnesses and after Fogen is safely tucked away where he belongs, it could be that Miami/Dade Public Schools will find itself under the microscope of Parks & Crump.

        I suspect Trayvon was wrongfully suspended, based on the search without a warrant. His parents innocently thought sending him to Sanford would be superior to having him hanging out in Miami while wrongfully barred from class. That in turn led to his death.

        Another big settlement from Miami/Dade could be in the works to help fund Trayvon’s foundation. That would be just fine with me.

      • thejbmission says:

        Jun says:

        There’s actually some alleged studies on it and it goes like this for the US:

        1) Black and Latino males are the most likely to be targeted by police for suspicious and rights infringed by illegal and warrantless searches so an unfair search

        2) Then comes white people being the second most likely

        3) Asians are the least likely to be given an unfair search or be seen as suspicious, with the exception of middle eastern and South Asian people

        Jun, I believe there is some truth to those studies. I never realized this until I raised my youngest son. He played sports; football, baseball and basketball. Since he played sports, he was naturally friends with all races of kids..something I was thrilled about because what’s more cool than having kids who can relate to all cultures?
        When he was about 13years old, we had moved to a new neighborhood. The first thing he noticed was the house down the street with the basketball goal. Within 2 days, he had made a new group of friends. Cool, I thought.
        Well…about 2 wks. later, my son and his friend asked me a question. They wanted to know if it was okay if everyday when they walk home from the basketball game that 2 undercover cops (the Jump Out Boys) stop him and his friend to pat them down for drugs. LOL
        I said “no, it wasn’t okay”. I asked them, “how many times has this happened?” My son told me “3 or 4 times”. The other boy chimed in….”they always do it to me”. I asked them for a description of the car. Sure enough, a couple of days later, I spotted the blue Camaro. I waved them down and asked them about this. The Jump Out Boy told me there was a drug problem in the neighborhood and that’s how they find out who’s using.
        I then asked him, “Did you find anything on my son the first time?”
        Did you find anything on him the 2nd time? He said no. I said “well that should answer your question, if you stop my son again I’m going to report you to your superiors and then my lawyer. This is America and what you are doing is harassment. Un-freaking-believable! That’s what these kids put up with everyday. So yes that study is right on.

      • LeaNder says:

        Jun, I believe there is some truth

        there is absolutely truth in the studies and these are not “alleged” studies either they exist.

        I think one of the regulars over at Jonathan Turley’s blog once asked the commonplace question. Do you think, you are right if you assume black kids are more likely to use drugs than white ones. Or something to that effect, and went on. If you think so, you are wrong. I wish I could cite. It was a pretty perfect and to the point summary of the research done on the topic.

        When all this started I read a couple of articles too. The one thing that stands out vividly on my mind, is that if police targets blacks for drug searches the hit numbers go down significantly. Now I do think that the people that write these articles or study the topic work with reliable data. So no, not alleged.


        I absolutely think that Crump should look into this matter. It’s really hard to figure out the chronology of events since the CTH documents are the protocols of the interviews only, we do not have the dates of the events talked about. But it feels to me now that pretty early FDLE contacted people at Miami Dade, or the GUI (general investigation unit).

        Does anyone here know when the kids in the Miami schools started to protest in connection with the Trayvon Martin shooting. These events coincides with the FDLE contacting Miami for the reports. Could this still have been done by Wolfinger’s office?

        Is there a chance to find out where the lady demanding the reports, Joanne Velez worked at the time as a system analyst and supervisor (see interview with William Tagle and Deanna Fox confirming it or putting it in a time context, he told her about it while they were out in connection with school protests.)

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Not much, pretty nearly everything on it comes from TCTH as google shows. If you google “carol city school walkouts” the Deanna Fox stuff comes up. She’s outside the school with loud noisy protests so she gets in the car to answer the call.

          All there is in the reports released so far is enough information to know that these accusations against Trayvon, probably should never have happened, they are messy unkempt and improper police actions. Of course, he’d need parents with enough legal savvy and gumption to go against the schools pd/investigators etc., and most black students don’t have that. Probably because most black parents are mistreated with impunity by the system themselves. So they take on a “don’t sweat the small stuff” view, and roll with the punches.
          Exactly what GZ was counting on, that would be the response of Trayvon’s family to a police “wall of silence” and a prosecutor unwilling to charge.

          Trayvon impresses me as neither a weed smoker nor a graffiti artist. The mess claimed to be an investigation against him is a fraud. I doubt the MDSPD can substantiate any of the claims they have made, nor document any infractions, even though they claim they were viewed on the schools cctv system, which I’m going to guess is hooked up to video recorders.

          Attorney Crump needs to bring in a team of investigators and go through the school and the MDSPD’s records with a fine toothed comb, depose them all and sue, sue, sue and sue some more!
          These people need to be taught not to play with the lives of black children so callously and with such careless abandon.

      • LeaNder says:

        I am not sure if the direct scribe links work. I saved them anyway, since it makes accessing it easier.

        It seems to work. Sergeant William Tagle interview starts on page 50 of the document. One can always skip the rituals and the reading of the Charles Hurley’s complaint. Including the can be or cannot be used against witness ritual.

      • LeaNder says:

        We of course have the chronology of some events, but not all. We know when Randy Smith contacted Hadely

        I was wrong, we can date it, it’s easy to find: March 22, 2012

        So in a way it is a response to DeeDee’s statements.

        When exactly was Corey appointed? Seems exactly the same day: March 22, 2012. And the first thing she had done the same day was inquire about the police reports in Miami?

      • LeaNder says:

        Maybe I am slightly too fast. It seems protest continued on Friday at least the interview with Fox suggests it. Can the experts here trace Joanne Velez in Corey’s office? That would be helpful.

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