Dispute regarding publication of settlement amount is a tempest in a teapot

Friday, April 18, 2013

Good morning.

The dispute regarding whether the settlement amount should be publicized is a tempest in a teapot.

A defendant in a criminal case has the right to cross examine a witness against him regarding any bias or prejudice the witness might have that might influence their testimony in the case.

To facilitate discussion, let us assume that the case settled for $1.75 million.

Mark O’Mara wants to know that amount so that he can argue to the jury that Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton were not credible witnesses when they identified Trayvon as the person who uttered the death shriek.

For example, he could argue that they had 1.75 million reasons to lie.

As distasteful as such an argument would be, I believe the defense has a right to make it.

Whether it would make any sense to cross examine them about the settlement and to argue that they lied when they identified Trayvon as the source of the death shriek is another matter.

I do not believe there will be any doubt that Trayvon uttered that shriek because he was unarmed and the shriek abruptly ended as though silenced by the gunshot.

There is no credible argument that the defendant uttered that shriek as he pulled his gun out of the holster, extended his arm, aimed while making certain that he would not shoot his left hand by mistake, and pulled the trigger simultaneously stopping his scream.

To argue to the jury that Trayvon’s parents lied for financial reasons would be to invite scorn, if not hatred, and prejudice the defendant.

Nevertheless, if O’Mara wants to be stupid and venture into an area where no one with an ounce of sense would dare to go, the law erects no barrier and permits him to make a fool out of himself.

I doubt he is that stupid. I suspect he is merely posturing and would not dare go down that road.

Judge Nelson could dispose of this motion by ordering that the amount of the settlement remain confidential for now, subject to reconsideration if Trayvon’s parents testify.

Let him dare to bring it up.


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303 Responses to Dispute regarding publication of settlement amount is a tempest in a teapot

  1. ay2z says:

    Voice recognition. MOM and West asked for each and every person who knew Trayvon’s voice, had recorded examples of his voice for over past some years, should be identified.

    ‘Could one of these witnesses who had heard Trayvon’s voice, be faced with one of these recordings of Trayvon’s recorded voice, and be asked by defense if they recognize it and can identify it?

    As rebuttal for saying they are familiar with Trayvon’s voice, but hearing a recording that was identified as Trayvon, but not necessarily one they had heard before, or not one that they had heard in that form (ie shortened clip or out of context) or a low quality recording from the past?

    • I don’t believe anything like that will happen in trial because the lawyer would be asking a question not knowing the answer that the witness will provide.

      Besides, as I’ve said before, the voice identification issue will be resolved by the context of the scream and shot rather than by machine or human recognition.

      A person doesn’t scream like that if they have a gun and, even if the person screaming had the gun, they would not stop screaming precisely when the shot is fired. They would keep screaming for help.

      Voice recognition is a red herring, IMO.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        In fact GZ provided a reason why he would have continued to scream after the shot, if it was him screaming before the shot. Because he says that he thought that he’d missed, which of course means that, he had no reason to believe that the shot ended the lethal danger he supposedly faced.

        • Yes, that’s exactly right.

          Once again, he condemns himself out of his own mouth.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Exactly and worse yet, he can’t take the stand to straighten things out, because if he does take the stand, he simply won’t get that far.
            Before the trial is over, the jurors will go from staring at GZ in wide eyed amazement, to sneering at him with scorn, to glaring at him in anger and finally to gasping in exasperation. Retiring to deliberate will be just a formality. Everyone except Fogen will be home in time for dinner.

            |||=> Tick Tock! Clink Clank <-|||

          • racerrodig says:

            “Everyone except Fogen will be home in time for dinner.”

            Could be, but I’ll say they take one extra day just for the free meal……oh, and it will make it look as tron wants “fair for the defendant” Yep, 9 hours of deliberation time…..

            This is the breakdown

            1 hour discussing facts and a vote
            Vote is unanimous “Guilty” on first time ballot
            2 hours talking about how despicable Fogen is
            1 hour + / – 20 minutes trying to prevent vomiting over O’ Mara’s lies & actions
            2 hours discussing favorite “Legal Movies” Tie between “And Justice for All” & “The Verdict” “Runaway Jury” is 3rd
            1 hour discussing staying for one more meal and discuss setting up potential book / movie deals
            1 hour + / – getting everything in order to alert Bailiff Verdict is in.
            Jury Foreperson strictly warns all not to laugh and / or imitate Fogens smirk as a group as a sign of solidarity, nor hold up signs that say “From the desk of the angry Jurors”

          • Xena says:


            I wonder how long it’s going to take the Arias jurors to enter a verdict? Some commentators are of the impression that the jury decided before the defense brought forth its first expert witness.

          • racerrodig says:

            I know for fact that sometimes they are just going through the motions. Then they may talk about hoe utterly stupid he is, how the stories conflict each other and “couldn’t they get it straight at trial prep: and all that.

            Guilty is a foregone conclusion.

          • Xena says:


            Then they may talk about hoe utterly stupid …

            I read “hoe” and thought you were talking about Jodi Arias. LOL!

          • racerrodig says:

            I’ve been thinking about moving the “e” away from the “w” on my keyboard for sometime now. Please don’t tell tron about my mistake….I’d be doomed.

          • Xena says:

            @racerrodig. Now — just buy press on letters and put the “e” over the “w” and that way, you can say it’s not a mistake. 🙂

          • racerrodig says:

            Isn’t it so pleasant without him around…..like a breathe of fresh air.

          • cielo62 says:

            Racer~ LOL! Honestly, they should ALL go in wearing “that smirk” and GZ could faint BEFORE the verdict is read!

          • racerrodig says:

            Jurors are human and you’d be surprised at what they talk about in deliberation. See my response to Lonnies at about 1:20

    • JUN says:

      I believe it is obviously Trayvon screaming for help, as it sounds like a kid’s voice pleading for their life and besides, the state and feds have equipment to clear up the audio, so Fogen’s voice can be heard more clear as Fogen was saying something to Trayvon before killing him

      Personally even if Omara got the recordings, he would not like them because Trayvon sounds like a kid, and so does the voice screaming for help on that particular 911 tape, so it is going to match Trayvon

  2. colin black says:

    Xena says:

    April 19, 2013 at 9:14 pm

    Okra cooked well is going to be slimy, but you can cut down on it a little with a tad bit of vinegar.
    cANT BELEIVE YOU guys are eating whales???………..even if they are killer whales they only hunt to eat.

    Crawfish pie phillypie ee bye gumm BO…
    CAUSE tonight Im gonna eat my neighbours trombone;
    If I die then my folks will sigh an say .
    Cant beleive we done gone conceived such a dumbo………

  3. SearchingMind says:

    LLMPapa really messed Expert Michael Knox up with his ‘School boy ruler’ demonstration (which btw I consider his best of all times in this case). That ‘School boy ruler demo’ is a very rudimentary and – like everything rudimentary – has the brute force of a tornado as far as Knox’s expertise and credibility are concerned. Knox was just blown away. He (Knox) deleted a huge chunk of the info on his website and closed the comments section. Since then, no one has heard from him (Knox). And I doubt we will ever again hear Knox regurgitating the same nonsense that got him in trouble with LLMPapa et al.

    • Rachael says:

      It is a beautiful thing.

    • Tzar says:

      and I repeat: “It is a beautiful thing.”

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        It will be a beautiful thing if Tracey knows the history of Sanford and takes the town back to black ownership like it originally was. That would be the crowning jewel of this whole sordid saga.

    • ay2z says:

      That was an amazing piece of work. Schoolboy ruler, with all the length, enough increments in one measurement system or another, to do the job.

      Fogen must have called 911 on Knox when he boarded up the place and took off…

      “SHIT! He’s running…. these assholes, they always get away”.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Ah yes, but weren’t those the biofidelic days of our lives? 😆

    • cielo62 says:

      TO THE RAZOR SHARP DESK OF Searching Mind~ I took extreme pleasure in LLMPapa taking down Michael Knox! Yes, Knox shut down his comment section, and his once prominent tab for his book has suddenly become hard to find. I doubt he sold any more copies that Osterman did of his book. GOOD.

    • Xena says:

      Knox is no doubt embarrassed that he took Zidiot bait and picked a fight with LLMPapa. They tried the same thing with Sanford Watch when the professor posted the video about O’Mara committing perjury on this blog. But, Sanford Watch apparently discerned the motivation and didn’t go there

      I say this affirmatively based on comments submitted to my blog by Zidiots.

      One even tweeted Junior my comments from here, apparently hoping that Junior would pick a fight with me.

  4. Lonnie Starr says:

    MOM is passing time by making it appear that he’s trying to do things he shouldn’t be doing, but that his donation sources are enamored of. MOM makes sure that he’s not locked in to his conjectures, claims and proposals, since he knows these things cannot be raised at trial. His witness list contains character witnesses that he knows he must avoid at all cost. He claims he’s looking for experts, when in fact, there are no experts who can help him. Look at how Michael Knox, the head of a professional expert firm with some credentials and an impressive customer list, has gone silent on this case, after posting some fare that made him look ridiculous. For example, he cannot explain how a regular ruler differs from a “school boy ruler” he cited.

    He cannot explain how he managed to use photogrammetry to make a determination, when the people who developed the methodology, state that it should not be used the way that he did. In short, what he published was very useful self impeachment material, my guess is he’s now gone quiet, because he’s embroiled in pitched battles with his former customers and opponents alike. Customers seeking refunds and opponents seeking damages, all using his silly self impeachment material against him. If Mr. Knox doesn’t settle with each challenger, his worst nightmare will happen as he gets dragged into court. Which may happen anyway, if his work has put someone away. In which case Mr. Knox may very well face the prospect of imprisonment himself.

    As Xena and/or Malisha say, MOM may very well be unable to interest any experts in taking his side of the case. Any audio experts would be too paralyzed with fear to go forward once they heard GZ’s voice asking questions on the 911 call. Being asked to help assign the screams to GZ would just be an effort too far. Doctors of Sports medicine discipline, will explain that it’s so extremely unlikely that GZ at 5’8″ – 208 lbs, is unable to easily control a youth at 5’11” – 158 lbs
    is a theory they are not about to put their reputation behind.

    In short, the secretaries of experts around the nation have O’Mara on their “do not answer” list. They’re all on a holistic retreat in Micronesia, no phones, tv or computers and they’re not due to return until late August. 😆

    • Trained Observer says:

      What a smokin’ post to accompany mid-morn coffee, Lonnie. Great insights on both MOM … and on Knox, the not so fox. Doesn’t seem this “expert’s” book is headed for the NYT bestseller list. Thanks for focusing on how his silly Fogen braggadocio may be biting him in the butt on previous efforts for other clients.

      • colin black says:

        Haveing dueling experts for hire is ludicrous.
        Experts are neeeded to explain technical details to laypeople like Jurours.

        However unless thease experts are certified an exponents of the feild they are giveing there opinion on ,
        Thats acceptable.

        But I see a lot of self profesed experts get up an will say for pay .
        Whtever is requesred of them .

        If the defence want them to state under oath that Jupiter may be a giant blamanche slighty covered with a light sprinkling of frosted flakes .

        For 300 bucks an hour they will an take about 6 hours to explain why this is possible in there opinion.
        Its a fucking joke thease people should be on trial for fraud an lieing under oath wasteing time.

        An basicly persons whom will say anything to boost there bank acount.
        Many of thease so called experts not only lie or excagerate there cv.

        But fabricate it compleatly with diplomas downloaded from the innerweb.

        This is a major problem with Americas trial system duelling experts shoud not be done away with as thatrs not possable.

        But tough stringent new tests an chechs must be implimented to weed out the CHARLITANS .

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Great post.

    • Xena says:

      @Lonnie Starr. Let’s not forget an expert to testify about how long it takes blood from fresh wounds to dry. Then there is the gunshot residue, only found on the back of one sleeve of GZ’s jacket. How did it miss the front of his jacket at such close range? Would adding another 2 to 3 inches to his arm length help solve that?

      Oh — let’s not forget that O’Mara needs an expert to testify that people believing their life is about to end due to head injuries don’t go to the hospital.

      • Rachael says:

        “let’s not forget that O’Mara needs an expert to testify that people believing their life is about to end due to head injuries don’t go to the hospital.”


        That guy is preposterous.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Dried blood on his head some 3 minutes after he claims he was cut??? Yeah, right!

          Some holy terror is killing you with his bare hands, and you’re holding onto his shirts keeping him close to you, with a hand that could be helping save your life, while your other hand is drawing a firearm as you scream in terror of losing your life… but stop screaming and put away your weapon, after firing a shot you believe missed???!!!???

          Bailiff: Judge, the foreman of the jury just called to say: “There’s a real suspicious guy sitting at the end of the counsel table… he’s just staring at us, we don’t know what his deal is but he looks like he’s up to no good. We’ll be back with a verdict shortly.”
          Hoodies up!!!
          |||=> Tick Tock! Clink Clank <-|||

          • racerrodig says:

            “Hoodies up!!!
            |||=> Tick Tock Clink Clank <+|||"

            It would be a hoot if one of the States aide kept handing notes to BDLR or whoever is speaking at the time and then stating what you did.

            "Your honor, the defendant looks suspicious and it's not raining. We don't know what his deal is and we can all tell he's not training for a damn thing……..well, maybe there's a Sumo League starting up"

            "Your honor the Jury Foreperson saw the defendant looking about, just looking at all the people, and they don't know what his deal is"

            "Your honor, the Jury thinks he's on drugs or sumptin' and he's up to no good, and at one point was walking towards them"

            "Your Honor, the Jury states there were a lot of break ins, well, not anywhere near here, and well, not even in Fogens neighborhood, and well, maybe someplace, but not where in matters in this case.

            "Your Honor, the Jury say's he a white male, late 20's, blue suit that doesn't fit, and he's got chrome bracelets on………now he's just trying to look about…..and he put his hand in his waistband"

            We did something similar in a civil case about 5 years ago where the defendant and his lawyer made a "Fogenesque" comment that I could work in as a smack in the face for the jury when I testified. Then the defense counsel made the mistake of putting me back on, not once, but twice. This was an ironclad case…..As the kids say "Owned"

            When the trial was over, several of the jurors stated outside that was not only legally brilliant, but as funny as any comedy routine ever…..

      • looolooo says:

        @ Rachel 😀

  5. SearchingMind says:


    Re: Spousal Privilege

    Professor, pursuant to section 90.507 of THE FLORIDA EVIDENCE CODEC it could (IMO) be plausibly argued that both GZ and his wife, Shellie, voluntarily waived their spousal privileges when Shellie, as a result of an agreement between both spouses, testified and was cross-examined during the bond-hearing.

    Given the above fact and unless the (events of the) bond-hearing (are)/is not part of the one, single and indivisible criminal process against GZ, I do not see how Shellie Zimmerman’s testimony would be a breach of their spousal privilege, especially with regard to (a) matters she has already under oath testified about in the past (during the bond hearing), (b) the jailhouse calls which contain communications made between husband and wife where both have “NO reasonable expectation of privacy”. Shellie Zimmerman is, IMO, part of a body of evidence with regard to demonstrating/demolishing GZ’s credibility before the jury.

    Your thoughts on the waiver-question?

    • SearchingMind says:

      Also Professor, my reading of Section 90.504 (1) of THE FLORIDA EVIDENCE EVIDENCE CODE is that only COMMUNICATIONS between spouses which were INTENDED to be made in confidence are protected. Surely, it could be argued that Shellie Zimmerman, besides the fact that both spouses have waived spousal privilege regarding certain communications, may be called upon to testify on other matters that are not “communications between spouses” e.g.:

      a. Shellie’s personal observations/knowledge regarding specific relevant issues (e.g. ownership and daily use of the gun used during the murder, GZ’s whereabouts in the hours preceding the murder, etc.);

      b. communications she and GZ had together with- and/or in the presence of third parties;

      c. communications which GZ alone had with third parties while she was present;

      d. communications only she herself had with third parties (e.g. the Ostermans, GZ’s parents, RZjr, etc.).

    • SearchingMind says:

      I also think that – in placing Shellie Zimmerman on the witness list – Prosecutors must have made the following calculations:

      a. force O’Mara/GZ to STRENUOUSLY object and move heaven and earth to prevent GZ’s BEST (character) witness – his WIFE – from taking the stand testifying and confirming parts of GZ’s story! (That will really make GZ strongly smelling very guilty in the eyes of jurors (why panic at the prospect of your best friend testifying, if there is nothing to hide, jurors might be asking themselves).


      b. Force Shellie to claim the 5th on the stand! That will be a disaster for the defense (and wouldn’t it be delightful to watch this disaster unfold?).

      • Rachael says:

        Do you really think GZ’s best character witness would be his wife – who is up on her own charges of perjury? Of course they probably can’t bring that up but still…but hmmm, I guess if they can’t and those on the jury are not aware, she might be his best character witness – unless she has flipped on him.

        This will require a trip to Costco before the trial.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Wifey can’t be compelled to testify for the prosecution against Hubby… So, what’s Shelly doing gracing the SP’s witness list, eh?
          She has flipped I tell ya!!! No wonder the defense has gone quiet, and RZJr is looking like a damned fool, while he’s out front and center singing the praises of the fogen, the ranks behind him have broken and his forces have fled for the hills.

          Remember, the HOA and their lawyers had the gate code in data to work with. They had already spoken to the residents to collect the stories of how GZ conducted his NW activities, they’d have not failed to note the complaints that it was being run by a bunch of drunks and racists. Information likely to make a defense all the more difficult in a civil trial, where an enraged jury could effectively wipe the RATL off the map, so to speak.

      • If a witness via her attorney states that she will take the 5th, the judge will excuse the witness from taking the stand because it is improper to force a witness to take the 5th in front of the jury.

      • SearchingMind says:

        Rach, under normal circumstances, ones best character witness(s) is/are his best friend(s) – i.e. wife and/or brother/sister and/or parents and/or childhood friend, etc.

        But in this case we have a very strange situation, a paradox in which GZ will move heaven and earth to exclude his best friend from testifying in his (GZ) favor.

        I think putting Shellie on the witness list is really a Machiavellian move by the Prosecutors: sow panic in the Zimmerman household, divide, conquer and rule. If O’Mara is unsuccessful in keeping Shellie off the witness stand (and he will be because Shellie is among others the owner of the murder weapon, etc.) and Shellie is therefore force to the stand, Shellie will either (a) tell the truth, destroy GZ in the process and give evidence that will be used against her in her own perjury case (unless the perjury case is withdrawn) or (b) take the 5th.

        I do not think that Shellie has flipped on GZ since both are still living under the same roof (as husband and wife and shearing the fruits of that union together :)).

  6. Kelly Payne says:

    Do any of you think O-moron will try to have the scream tape excluded from the trial? Because i personally believe the instant the jury hears those screams,if they are normal will instantly know that was a teenager screaming.

    • tryagainplease12 says:

      Why would he? His said its his client screaming, so why try to take it out, or is it b/c he knows that its not his client and thats the nail in the coffin for his self defense case.

    • SearchingMind says:

      I don’t think so. If the scream tape were to be excluded, O’Mara/GZ shall have lost his proof that GZ was in trouble before he fired the kill shot. O’Mara himself may not believe that it was GZ screaming, but as a defense counsel, he has to “believe” GZ’s claim and (re)present it to the jury (even when the chance that the jury will not believe him is 99.99%).

      This is what I expect will come next from O’Mara:

      O’Mara will use the worst interpretation of DeeDee’s deposition to fabricate a story that DeeDee has been tampered with and her testimony therefore compromised. O’Mara will then file a pre-trial Motion to exclude DeeDee as a witness and suppress her testimony. O’Mara will miserably fail in his endeavor to get DeeDee excluded. But, winning is not O’Mara’s goal. The goal – from O’Mara’s point of view – is to constantly (a) provide the jackals (i.e. GZ supporters/donors) with their daily kilos of red meat (b) keep this case in news headlines with himself (O’Mara) as the main actor, director and producer of the movie. Just mention the name ‘DeeDee’ and the Jackals at (a) the CTH and (b) TalkLeft, will nuts in a frenzy. And with menacing hate.

      • SearchingMind says:

        (typo in the last sentence) … will go nuts in a frenzy ….

      • SearchingMind says:

        Also Professor, my reading of Section 90.504 (1) of THE FLORIDA EVIDENCE EVIDENCE CODE is that only COMMUNICATIONS between spouses which were INTENDED to be made in confidence are protected. Surely, it could be argued that Shellie Zimmerman, besides the fact that both spouses have waived spousal privilege regarding certain communications, may be called upon to testify on other matters that are not “communications between spouses” e.g.:

        a. Shellie’s personal observations/knowledge regarding specific relevant issues (e.g. ownership and daily use of the gun used during the murder, GZ’s whereabouts in the hours preceding the murder, etc.);

        b. communications she and GZ had together with- and/or in the presence of third parties;

        c. communications which GZ alone had with third parties while she was present;

        d. communications only she herself had with third parties (e.g. the Ostermans, GZ’s parents, RZjr, etc.).

    • There is no legal basis to exclude the shriek tape.

      Objections would go to the weight or importance that jurors should assign to the evidence, not to its admissibility.

      • SearchingMind says:

        Professor, the above post is not where it should be. I guess I hit the wrong reply button. I have reposted it to where it should be. Pls. do delete it.

    • cielo62 says:

      Kelly Payne~ Wouldn’t MOM have already motioned to have that excluded? Trial is less than 50 days away. He hasn’t motioned to have ANY of the known evidence excluded.

  7. ay2z says:

    In honor of the maybe Shellie Flip…. here’s Flip, and the Devil Made Me Do it.


  8. Romaine says:

    ok back OT…I think therefore i should have left my wifes gun home…
    I think therefore I should have identified myself
    I think therefore I should haveunderstood the childs fear
    I think there i should have not been a potted palm and spoken up for my wife
    I think therefore i should not have disconnected my moms electricity
    I think therefore I want to go to prison but I’m afraid of bubba
    I think therefore I am ashamed and I don’t know how to be truthful…Guilt is a terrible drug

    • ladystclaire says:

      Amen to that and, he has definitely OD on his guilt for sure. BTW. it’s not Bubba who he fears, as I’m sure he’s seen the photos of the welcome wagon holding up the signs in front of a prison cell with the inscription, RESERVED FOR GEORGE ZIMMERMAN. now he’s got some fear of Big Bubba but, it’s the real thugs that he fears the most.

    • racerrodig says:

      “I think therefore I should haveunderstood the childs fear”

      That is a major one and cannot be overcome in court.

  9. Romaine says:


  10. Romaine says:

    I’ll pay her to teach me that technic…

  11. Romaine says:

    can the wifey make Gumbo w okra??? w/o the excessive slime

    • racerrodig says:

      No okra……naaaaaaaaa

    • Xena says:

      Okra cooked well is going to be slimy, but you can cut down on it a little with a tad bit of vinegar.

      • Soulcatcher says:

        My husbands family is from La also. They make their gumbo with seafood, but also add sliced hot links

        • Xena says:


          They make their gumbo with seafood, but also add sliced hot links

          Gumbo was originally a dish made with leftovers. If you had a little chicken, a little ham, whatever, it went in the pot with tomatoes, onions, green peppers, okra and sometimes celery. The same is true for seafood leftovers or when seafood catches were small but a large meal needed to be made.

          It’s the Louisiana version of Chop Suey. 🙂

          • cielo62 says:

            Xena~ Or stew. Ever noticed how “scrap meals” have become “luxery meals” over time? Fajitas were the worst cuts of meat, cooked up with lots of spices and served with goodies to temper the toughness. NOW it’s on every Tex Mex menu in the country! The same has happened with stew, gumbo and HAGGIS! Once a poor man’s meal, now it’s a “traditional” dish made with choice ingredients.

          • Xena says:


            Ever noticed how “scrap meals” have become “luxery meals” over time?

            That is so true.

  12. racerrodig says:

    I’m not into seafood…..by doctors orders now, but I love chicken gumbo, over rice of any kind and some of that Cajun Hot Sauce.

    Damn….now I’m starving !!

  13. Romaine says:

    I’m good w the hot..

  14. Romaine says:

    I can make both, even low sodium, i find that the mild is favored out our way.

    • Xena says:

      I’ll bring the okra and sport peppers.

      • Ya know I can’t even get frozen Okra up here !!!!!!!!!!!!!

        Maybe I need to drive down to Okrahoma to git sum…….

        • cielo62 says:

          MMP~  Take that caterpillar wit ya! “Okrahoma” indeed!

          • In an effort to avoid Texas…. I could head east to central Kansas……hang a right and be in Okrahoma :)……2 day drive….one if I push it…..I do miss fried Okra 😦

            Tastes like snot?….Oysters are like loogies on the half shell 😦

            In a serious moment…..I will not disparage Shellie anymore…..until it’s found if she will indeed tell the truth.

          • cielo62 says:

            MMP~ Avoid Texas? And not visit me?? Done broke my heart… 😦   (LOL! I don’t like okra at all, nor oysters. True, SNOTS all of it)

          • My mates gonna be a greatgrandma come end of summer……her grandson’s in the Dallas area………..She’ll have a nice trip……..I’ll stay here on my mountain 🙂

            Wonder if Okra would pass thru a TSA screening?

        • Xena says:

          @MMPat. The best thing to do if you can’t find okra there, is grow your own. I’m waiting for the April showers to end so I can start my veggie garden. 🙂

          • Hell Gurl….we have April snow up here……I’d need to check the growth requirements for Okra at this altitude…….then keep the critters away…..I have a pasture fenced 5 ft high….the Deer can and do jump it………I do have a bottle of Coyote urine tho……..Hell of a thing for ones resume…..Coyote urine collector 😐

          • cielo62 says:

            MMP~ Coyote urine is sold as pellets as well. Stores specializing in bird watching include wolf and coyote pellets to sprinkle around to keep cats away from gardens used to lure songbirds. Y’know, according to the Audobon Society, CATS are the cause of the near extinction of many songbirds. FORGET that HUMANS have decimated nesting sites, polluted water, air and soil and set up glass building where songbirds crash and die. Yep, those cats just destroy all known wildlife (don’t get me started).

          • Xena says:

            @MMPat. We had sleet and snow here yesterday. Go to bed with lawns of white — wake up to lawns of green. 🙂

            I do have a bottle of Coyote urine tho……..Hell of a thing for ones resume…..Coyote urine collector 😐

            Daffodils planted about a vegetable garden helps. Or, you can plant a few veggies on the outskirt of your main garden just for the critters. I do that with raspberries against my fence. The rabbits stay there and seldom come close to the REAL garden. Thus far, I’ve not had deer jump my 6 ft fence.

      • oh no, not the slimy okra! my mom used to fry them in something crunchy, prolly like bread or cracker crumbs…but everyone always says “well mine aren’t slimy!” I think okra is just slimy by nature!! i’ll have to look up *sport peppers* never heard of that one. where are you from xena? is that some yankee food?? 😉

        i’ll bring the potato sacks, so we can have a potato sack race!!
        ( I always wanted to do that! LOL )
        oh and the slip and slide!!

    • Malisha says:

      If you wash and dry the fresh whole okra, heat up a bit of oil (quite hot) and throw the okra in and stir it wok-style at high heat, tossing in whatever seasoning you like just a minute before it’s done, it doesn’t get slimy and it’s irresistible! Damn, it made me hungry just to type this out! 😀

  15. Romaine says:

    me and your mom may need to get in the kitchen… she can teach me a few recipes…

  16. Romaine says:

    nice you are just a lil drive from me…i like a good seafood gumbo..i’m north of you…i lived in Louisiana for five yrs…during my military tour,,,loved it

  17. Romaine says:

    lmao, you are killing me….wiggle wiggle wit it…don’t know where you are but if you give me a good advance notice…i’m all in…I’ll even make a pot of GUMBO for us all…

    • racerrodig says:

      South Jersey, about 1/2 way between Philly and A.C.

      My mom is from Louisiana and I love chicken gumbo….man, good stuff……over rice…….now ya did it, I getting hungry.

      Maybe we should have a mock Immunity hearing here.

  18. Romaine says:

    lol wooooo racer…i just giggle with you all, all the time..i can’t wait either…i want to see his shimmy in that box!!!!

    • racerrodig says:

      “lol wooooo racer…i just giggle with you all, all the time..i can’t wait either…i want to see his shimmy in that box!!!!”

      Thanks !! The tragedy of this is very often, overwhelming to me being a parent. Since last March, I’ve gotten pretty involved in this and I must say, have meet many great people here and on a few other sites.

      The Professor has provided us with a safe zone of education and expression.

      I am still having the huge Celebratory Conviction BBQ, oh, sometime in early July….All members of Team Trayvon are welcome. I already started buying the rib’s ‘n chicken and the freezer will be full.

      Shimmy, Shimmy, to the Box…..
      Wiggle, Wiggle, lie’s like that…..

  19. Romaine says:

    Let’s think the way the defendant does

    The defendant states that he shot and killed his alledged aggressor

    The parents of Trayvon Martin agree

    The defendant states that he took this action in self defense?

    The parents of Trayvon Martin believe their sons life was recklessly taken by the defendant!!!

    The defendant sues NBC for liable, false representation of statements he made.

    The Martins sue the complex where their childs life was taken by the defendant.

    The defendant feels slighted because his claim of defamation is put on hold.

    The defendant feels slighted because he views the parents of Trayvon Martin received financial gain that should have been provided to him.

    The defendant has stated the stalking of a minor child, he believed to be on drugs and up to no good, who then punched him in the nose repeatedly, beating his head repeatedly into the concrete while suffucating him to the point of possible unconsciousness; while maintaining the ability of consciousness and focus to pull his gun and shoot his victim in the heart. All of this being done while screaming to his neighbors and peer members of the NW for help.

    The defendant feels slighted???

    The defendant dares to question why the parents of Trayvon Martin can’t see or understand the wrong commited by their son to his physical being.

    The defendant dares to question why the parents of Trayvon Martin should receive any support of compassion.

    The defendant dares to question why the parents of Trayvon Martin should loveTrayvon and the loss of his life more than the alledged minor injuries their son bestowed upon his person during their brief encounter, when he took away the life of their son.

    The defendant dares to question why the parents of Trayvon Martin should be compensated for the loss of their son, yet he wants to be compensated for his still living and alledged defamation of his character????

    I am George Zimmerman, I am the Victim, I am to be honored, I am to be rewarded, It is MY LIFE that was more important!!!!

    How dare anyone DISHONOR ME and MY GIVING TO MY COMMUNITY by supporting the LIFE and DEATH of TRAYVON MARTIN.

    In the defendants heart, mind body and soul, if anyone was to be afforded a reward of monetary gain for the incident that occurred on February 26, 2012, it is the defendant because he is and was the victim.

    The defendant still can’t understand WHY DON’T THEY BELIEVE ME????
    WHY???? because you refuse to get IN THE BOX AND TELL YOUR TRUTH
    An innocent man will stand by what he says (his word), with no fear of man; because he knows that in all of his truth, he is protected by GOD.


    • racerrodig says:

      Great Post !! I can’t wait for him, if he dares, to Get in the Big Box.

      So no Immunity Hearing Monday ?? Hmmmmmmm, wonder what they had to lose…..a little help on this one. (gloat, giggle, snort)

    • Xena says:

      @Romaine. Excellent!!

      The defendant still can’t understand WHY DON’T THEY BELIEVE ME????

      In a nutshell, the defendant has a sense of entitlement and superiority. He and his family believe that he is above the law.

      • racerrodig says:

        “He and his family believe that he is above the law.”

        There he goes thinking again…..look what that did.

        I think, therefore I graduated
        I think, therefore I followed,er, didn’t follow
        I think, therefore I will live the good life
        I think, therefore I’m a Good American
        I think, therefore, the masses are on my side
        I think, therefore my nose was broken
        I think, therefore I insult my co-workers
        I think, therefore I’m on my way to Target
        I think, therefore I was on the bottom
        I think, therefore I deserve a Frank Taaffe
        I think, therefore I have an Osterman
        I think, therefore I have a Zidiot Nation

        I say we all contribute to this list as it get long……

      • Trained Observer says:

        I think, therefore I sorta stayed in my schtruck
        I think, therefore my wife’s a mess
        I think, therefore the PeterPan money was mine, all mine
        I think, therefore no jury would send me to prison, uh, would they?

    • LeaNder says:

      Romaine, this is it in a nutshell. I like it a lot.

      But please allow me where I would stylistically differ slightly, nevertheless.

      alledged minor injuries

      Alleged “minor” injuries, feels like an oxymoron to me. That may be since I have no problems with accepting some minor injuries, but I don’t think they suggest any life threating scenario.

      So I maybe I would use: alleged life threatening injuries, or would leave out the alleged in this context. I do not accept any scenario about how they were created if I leave the “alleged” out. I definitively do not trust his narrative.

      My core question would be. How did it start? If he tried to stop TM without the least authority to do so, Travyon would have the same rights to defend himself as Fogen had to defend himself, as he claimed he had to. Remember he tells us Trayon threatened to kill him, not only did he hit his nose and smashed his head against concrete over and over again, he also smothered him. Fact is these minor injuries do not at all fit that scenario.

      Strictly I also think that Fogen’s very special God allows perjury on the stand. We Catholics have our own ways to solve the apparent discrepancy of lying under oath, or deal with perjury. We simply go to confession after, and the priest is not allowed to ever talk about it. 😉

      If he would be able to keep his tale up under cross-examination is quite another story. 😉

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        My problems with GZ’s stories are legion, massive and insurmountable.

        The very first problem he has to overcome is: How does an unarmed, untrained, non-violent, law abiding, normal and respectful teenager, become a deadly threat?

        Okay, for people who watch movies, tv and/or read crime novels, just about anything can be made to seem possible. However, in real life, killing another person is no easy matter, not even for soldiers in war zones where they have been trained, given weapons and ordered to kill. Anyone who doesn’t believe that needs to go to a veterans home and talk to real life war veterans, not rely on actors performing according to scripts. Even police will tell you how adverse they are to situations where they might have to use their firearm.

        So then, what prepares a relatively sedentary child, with no thoughts of combat or fighting skills of any kind, to suddenly be prepared to take the life of an older, stronger and heavier adult? On top of which, Trayvon has almost no muscle mass on his frame, as you can see by consulting height weight charts and/or measuring that against the rules for prizefighting classifications. By prizefighting rules alone, GZ and Trayvon would never be allowed to face one another to fight, simply based on weight, height, size and age alone.
        As far as age goes, Trayvon is only 17 and would not be allowed to compete at all, because at his age he hasn’t yet developed sufficient coordination, that won’t happen until his 18th birthday.

        By weight and height GZ is just too far above Trayvon to even make such a match interesting, much less any real contest. So, how does a violent ex bouncer, so many weight classes above the unarmed teenager, come to have his life threatened by a weak teen who doesn’t even use his hands to boot? Obviously GZ is a terrible fraud, making false claims he hopes no one has the sense to disbelieve. For example: “Yes! There is a Walt Disney film of Mary Poppins as a back street Dominatrix directed by Larry Flint!” Now, I know you haven’t had time to research that statement, but… Could you venture a good guess as whether it is true or false? Your knowledge of Disney would probably allow you to make a very good on point guess that would also be correct.

        So, shouldn’t your knowledge of unarmed, untrained, happy and non-violent teens allow you to make the same kind of guess about whether Trayvon could kill someone with his bare hands?

        I’ll save the other barriers for another post if needed.

        Tick tock

  20. ay2z says:

    Mama Zim would be called by prosecution after the fogen’s ex-girlfriend, about the electricity shut out?

    The state might not want to rely only on the say-so of a disgruntled ex, so if they raise this question, they would need to have confirmation of utility issues, complaints, calls, or a third party to testify?

    • JUN says:

      I dont feel that will even be brought up, as it seems irrelevant but it proves Fogen is an asshole

    • Trained Observer says:

      Gladazz: “Oh, my trustworthy son was just playing a little prank … Our family has such a quirky sense of humor, and we enjoy having fun with each other.”

      • Rachael says:

        They seem like such a fun family.

        A dysFUNctional family. Full of fun. Um hmmm

        • racerrodig says:

          Imagine having Fogen as a classmate ?? We all had a few of those chuckle heads that had no clue as to what life was all about. Lies about everything, and thinks he fools everyone.

          Then when he walks away we would all mutter something really rude, unkind, profane but realistic……like (pardon my French in advance) dick head, shit for brains, dork, dip shit or whatever.

          He’s the one where kids would try to get him clued in by pulling the “one guy on hands and knees behind and one guy pushes his chest so he goes over backwards” and Fogen would say, “..oh you guys…..” as if they actually like him.

          Of course Fogen showed his true colors in his MySpace page talking about running over Mexicans on the sidewalk……oh and a murder.

    • This evidence would only be admissible in rebuttal, if the defendant places his character in issue.

      Since there is no need to list a rebuttal witness, I am going to assume that Gladys Z was listed in retaliation for O’Mara listing Sybrina Fulton on the defense list.

      • colin black says:

        Its no retaliation though.

        Tratvons Parents are Proud of there Son and wish to be present in court to see justice served on the MURDERER of the Son.

        Gladys not so much rven if allowed to attend court every day she wont an neither will his father or i m o Shelllie.

        Trayvons Family will be alloed to attend court as I beleive they will apply under next of kin exemption.
        An J Nelson will grant there motion of excemption from reclusal .
        Just as J Perry granted the Anthonys excemption.

        I doubt foggages parents even applly the only constant he will have in the court on his side will be junior.
        An he will only be there to mug it up an give impromtu press confreces outside the court.

      • Romaine says:

        and if that is the case professor I would suggest two separate rooms for the parents….Trayvons parents have been blessed to hold their peace thus far, a one on one encounter with the crazy Z’s…may develope into a different case…the challenge of patience in this case is so past over the edge…somebody will catch a charge…ijs

      • bettykath says:

        I think that Shellie may have been listed to give the impression that she will testify against the defendant. Although she might. Sure ups the anxiety for the defense.

      • LeaNder says:

        Since there is no need to list a rebuttal witness, I am going to assume that Gladys Z was listed in retaliation for O’Mara listing Sybrina Fulton on the defense list

        I am not sure if I understand the “no need to list a rebuttal witness”, but listing Gladys Z felt exactly the same to me. How and why did the court system fail them as Americans? What would a failure of the court system look like from the perspective of the family of the dead boy? Should there be a special interest definition in any type of laws?

        When I read O’Mara’s latest motion, both your and Nelson’s repetition of ‘what is the relevance” was on my mind. Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton are no relevant witnesses to the facts for which Fogen has to face trial, Sybrina and Tracy are relevant only for their admirable efforts to remain forceful defenders of their dead son’s reputation.

        I am grateful for this statement:

        Nevertheless, if O’Mara wants to be stupid and venture into an area where no one with an ounce of sense would dare to go, the law erects no barrier and permits him to make a fool out of himself.

        I read the motion again or more precisely to the end this time. First time stopped here:

        As to Paragraph 2 of the Motion, while the agreement may have suggested that the subject matter remains confidential, such a confidentiality agreement does not and cannot bind this Court, nor does it bind the State Attorney’s Office from following it’s rule regarding required disclosures, nor can it negatively impact on a criminal defendant’s rights to discovery. To give such a contention any weight would suggest that information might be held confidential from all court proceedings–be them criminal or civil in nature–simply by the entry of a private confidentiality agreement. The results of such an illogical extension would gut all discovery rules, leaving the spoils of litigation to the party with the greater amount of confidentiality agreement leaving the spoils of ligitation to the party with the greater amount of confidentiality agreements, rather than the party that should prevail after full and frank discovery.

        Is there a law that says the defendant “should prevail”. What do we need trials for then?

        We hear the questions concerning threats, and financial interests in almost every interviews. It is of course a legitimate question concerning witnesses, but I surely hope that the appellate court does not consider basic rights–in this case the right to civil litigation–as analogous to the standard usage of these question.

        Strictly I wonder what exactly O’Mara bases his “wisdom” on beyond the way he challenges the rule used by Crump he challenges.

        (9) Any court record determined to be confidential in case decision or court rule on the grounds that

        (A) confidentiality is required to

        (vi) avoid substantial injury to a party by disclosure of matters protected by a common law or privacy right not generally inherent in the specific type of proceeding sought to be closed;

        What he relies on seems to be 2.420 (c) (9) (A) (i)

        (i) prevent a serious and imminent threat to the fair, impartial, and orderly administration of justice;

        But he fails to prove why the precise sum would change anything. There is no trace in his argument why a specific sum would matter more than another. If as he claims the financial interests in themselves are enough to charge bias, why exactly would the specific amount matter? Thus his real intend seems to be in fact to hinder future litigations with his own client. It surely would be a benefit to know how much exactly the HOA paid. No?

        • The prosecution is only required to list the witnesses it intends to call during its case in chief.

          It is not required to list rebuttal witnesses because it cannot know whom it will call until the defense has presented its case.

          It cannot call any witnesses, if the defense does not put on a case.

          • LeaNder says:

            Thanks, Frederick. Makes much sense.

            I wish I could watch our own high profile case over here. At the moment it is postponed to May. The German high court had to interfere. Now the journalists will get their accreditation based on a lottery system. The case is about a neo-Nazi cell killing Germans of Turkish origin for a decade all over Germany. Obviously a lot of interest in Turkish media too, which is also read over here. But before there wasn’t a single Turkish journalist among the ones that had been accepted. Very, very odd story, with a little shredding going on in our secret service, after the suicide of two of the perpetrators brought the whole story to light, the third member a female has not spoken about anything and is not expected to do.

            We had a nail-bomb attack here in Cologne too. Nobody died but many were seriously wounded.

      • LeaNder says:

        I of course should not have alluded to the Appellate Court in this context.

        On April 30, the following will happen:

        Debra Nelson: Motion to Unseal. Denied without prejudices.

      • PYorck says:

        I think if Shellie flipped, then it is also possible that the prosecution has no real interest in the other Zimmermans. Listing them all in one batch at the last possible moment draws as little attention to her as possible for now.

      • ay2z says:

        Retalliation if nothing else, but would Bernie want to have any jury exposed to a murder defendant’s family everyday, while they wonder why the mother of the dead child was not there for him? They would be impacted by the presence of the mother’ of the defendant who admitted following and killing this child, in the absence of Trayvon’s own mother, that could build familiarity and opportunities to exploit this mother in the courtroom for sympathy with no opportunity to see the child victim’s own family.

        Keep her out for this reason also.

  21. colin black says:

    Re yesterdays speculation that M O M Is attempting to exclude Trayvons Parents by listing them as wittneses.

    In trunkmoms trial she wanted her parents excluded from the court.
    J Ashton had no problem with them attending the entire proceedings.

    J Berry ruled in ther favour an allowed them excempt status as Reletives of the decedant /victim CAYLEE.

    Im certain J Nelson will afford the same rights to Trayvons Mother Father an Brother.


  22. How many experts do they need to swear that those screams could not have come from GZ? Just one more of GZ’s physically impossible claims. He hadn’t the vocal chords for it. If the jury listens to that scream and then listens to GZ’s puppy yips, they will laugh in GZ’s face.

    • racerrodig says:

      “…then listens to GZ’s puppy yips, they will laugh in GZ’s face.”

      You mean the March 22nd 2012 “help me..help me..help me..help me..help me..” voice exemplar?? That garbage ??

      • ladystclaire says:

        They were puppy yips indeed racer, puppy yips indeed. this *VILLAGE IDIOT* might as well disperse with the lying and, tell the truth about his crime. chances are that other people are involved in this and, this is why he is being stupid enough to keep mum and not pinch their ass’s for fear of them doing to him, what he did to an innocent child.

        There is a person on you tube, who has a forensic background and, what he/she has to say about Zippy the village idiot’s position when he shot Trayvon, is very interesting to say the least. the person’s screen name is: McCainisthroughx. they show on video how impossible it would be, for Zippy to have a blood pattern run in the way of the ones we see on Fogen, if Trayvon was in fact on top of the heathen.

        I don’t know if you guys have see this particular video but, if you haven’t I think you might want to take a look at it for yourselves.

        • racerrodig says:

          Following this as I do I’ve seen just about all of the videos. having a few connections and knowing what I do know, what you said about others involved you can take to the bank.

          Moron O’ Mara has no clue what he’s walking onto. As has been stated Shelie being on the prosecution list now in not quite the same as the defense adding 200 witnesses. Like he has anything that would actually matter. No experts, maybe a few bigmouth Zidiots, helpful, eh, not so much.

      • ay2z says:

        describing as ‘puppy yips’ isn’t quite there, as puppy yips have a purpose and emphasis and emotion, that is a survival skill. The fogen’s ‘yelps’ or ‘yips’ lack emotion and emphasis. But I can’t think of another word that would be an improvement to describe the souless utterances he expels. But it’s more like an inconsequential grunt in the shape of a word.

        • racerrodig says:

          “help me..help me..help me..help me..help me..” Well Fogen some people are way beyond help, and you are at the top of that list.

          Oh, he’ll be grunting at some point starting say…….oh, about late June, early July.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @racer, I for one hope he’s walking right straight onto a mine field, and I hope it blows his crooked ass all the way to the moon and “I” dare him to land.

        • racerrodig says:

          I believe she now knows what buzz saw they are headed for and thought I’m too young to die. and is bailing out.

          I’ll say the phone records are what she figured out are the death knell to them all.

    • colin black says:

      Not many when they play the enchanced version of the tapes.
      They will remove all back ground interferance like the dispatcher voice.
      An the 911 callers voice an there partners voices in the back ground.

      We will hear the bits of tape so far inadmissable because theres redactedinfo given out.
      Phone no an Adresses.

      All that will be removed an we will hear the screaming an pleading from Trayvon.
      And the other voice of foggage tauning him interogating him telling him to shut the fuck up as Trayvon BEGS FOR MERCY.

      So after that its pointless to try an claim it was the defendant screaming.
      At times Im sure both voices will over lap in parts we havent heard yet.

      Those tapes alone are going to be enough to throw the key away on this lieing scum bag.

      Thats why the defence have no audio experts to examine this vital peices of audio evidence.
      They already know whats on there an its irirufutable.

    • Maybe the defense will do what Johnny Cochran did in the OJ trial and do mock setups to determine test voices as to who it could or couldn’t be whereas JC did DNA and the lab found DNA in samples that didn’t have DNA at all. If I was the defense I would do that in order to discredit the experts but if they don’t succeed, that would be the nail in the coffin for GZ.

      As for the voices on tape. I hear “beg of you” “I dont know” “nooooo” ” and only 1 “Help me” unlike GZ’s repeated help me. It’s just too damn obvious that this makes it this far without everyone knowing he’s guilty. But instead they’re engaged in a hate campaign so people will feel like TM and his familiy deserved this. We dont have to ask what’s wrong with these people, we dont need to pretend what we are seeing ain’t what it actually is, what we have to ask what is the fix.

      • A good question for GZ is when you supposedly yelled “I don’t know”, what was the question?

      • racerrodig says:

        Well said my man “what we have to ask what is the fix.” I’ve been asking that since about 1970.

      • JUN says:

        Fogen will be meeting Mexicans and Blacks that are his own age and size and Fogen can let them know about his racial relations regarding the conduit races known

        • racerrodig says:

          I hope the first thing he says in prison when he gets into GP is “….say bro…..” followed by (whapp, thunk…….) help me, help me, help me, help me, help me, help me…………..

          But that’s just me………….

      • Kelly Payne says:

        I think he said “Don’t shoot i’m begging you!!!” We just don’t hear that part because it was said before the phone call started.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @racer, I’m right there with you buddy! even though he will request to be in PC, I don’t think he can stay there for his entire stay. even so, if someone wants to get to his fat ass bad enough, they will find a way to do so.

        • racerrodig says:

          He’ll be in GP until the system deems it impossible to keep him safe. If he was a Muslim terrorist, he’d be in SC from the git go in all likelihood but the Afro – Peruvians have all proven to be so friendly and all……they mentor others so well, he’ll be an asshole, eh, asset yo the system……..just sayin.

    • JUN says:

      Even without the voice exemplars, it sounded like a kid to me, and did not sound anything at all like Fogen

      I knew it was not Fogen, comparing it to his NEN phone call

      Fogen has a low creepy pedo voice

      The voice screaming for help has a youthful sound to it

      Anyways, there is no forensic evidence that Trayvon caused any of his superficial minor injuries that self healed within minutes so I do not see what he has to scream about (zero dna transfer)

      I am still surprised we have to even debate the dead beaten horse when it is rather obvious

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Voice like Peter Lorry, without the accent.

      • pat deadder says:

        To June loved your music video. My son is a musician has travelled to Europe etc. he also has a real job as they say.He thought the video was amazing. The lack of proper investigation by SPD eg impounding fogen’s vehicle etc.is upsetting..I thought in the beginning fogen banged his head getting out of the car and that really pissed him off.He knew he had to silence Trayvon because he would be charged with illegal convinement or whatever . He knew Trayvon was not a thug so he had to shut him up.Even if it had been a young hoodlum he had no right to detain him..Oh my I’m so much off topic but it is not fogen’s voice screaming period.

  23. renosweeney says:

    Here’s the thing. I bet you that the Martins/Foultons will announce that all or a large portion of the monies will go to the foundation and the rest will go to paying for the brother’s college education. In fact, it would really make O’Mara look like an ass if they wait to do that when they’re questioned on the stand.

    • I agree. I can virtually guarantee that the answer will shame O’Mara, plus inform the jury that the HOA decided the evidence would show that the defendant committed the crime charged.

      If O’Mara wants to go there, he will have his head handed to him on a platter.

      And he would deserve it.

      • Rachael says:

        He doesn’t seem to shame easily.

        • Xena says:

          O’Mara wants to know how the State is going to present its case. He wants to know how they plan on presenting the evidence. He wants to hear their arguments before hand. An immunity hearing would have given him that, but he doesn’t want an immunity hearing.

          O’Mara has tried, from the first bond hearing, to circumvent trial by getting the court to make a ruling based on photos of GZ’s boo-boos. Next, he proceeded to disparage Witness 8. Now he has proceeded to the 911 recording that captured the screams.

          Problem for O’Mara is that none of his pre-trial attempts to circumvent a ruling on the admission of evidence at trial has worked. Judge Nelson isn’t going there.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Even though the defense would lose an immunity hearing, it seemed to me a good strategy to go through it anyway, but then IANAL. Or remotely connected to anything lawyerish.

      • Trained Observer says:

        On a platter? I would prefer to see it straight up on a stick!

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Rachael and, Professor, I agree with the both of you and to Rachael, O’mara doesn’t shame easily as you have said and, he is also morally bankrupt. he has taken part in the doxing of innocent people right along with his bosses at the CSH aka THE CONSERVATIVE SLUT HOUSE. he doesn’t take donations from racist idiots mind you but, he definitely is more than willing to lie down with them.

        This *THUG IN A SUIT* is IMO a disgrace to the justice system in this country. he is in no way to be trusted, as he said when he took on the defense of this murderer, that he wouldn’t try this case in the media or the court of public opinion, he has done just that from the get go. he is in no way someone who can be trusted at ALL!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      They already did say that the money would go to the Trayvon foundation.

    • JUN says:

      There’s a real special place in hell for people like Omara

  24. Xena says:

    Since ShelLIE is now on the State’s witness list, has she flipped? Could there be phone records between her, GZ and Osterman that provides she had some knowledge or participation in GZ’s decisions that evening?

    Ahhh. So many questions and possibilities. June 10th can’t get here fast enough.

    • looolooo says:

      My, my, my.

    • I suspect she may have flipped and that is why her case has been continued until after his case has concluded. If I’m right, her case will be dismissed after he is convicted.

      • Xena says:


        If I’m right, her case will be dismissed after he is convicted.

        I’ll raise you a pizza delivery that she will plead guilty with 2 years probation — no jail time.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Notice that today’s Orlando Sentinel story persists in referring to Mrs. Fogen as a “student nurse” — whatever that’s supposed to mean. Is that anything like being a student orthodontist … or a student architect? What are her nursing credentials to qualify for tha phrase? This is an insult to licensed nurses and active nursing students everywhere. OK, vent over.

        I hope she has indeed flipped (one of my possibilities listed yesterday.) If so, BDLR would have a mucho more in his arsenal for building the murder case against Fogen. Am optimistic on this, and am pleased the professor thinks this is a distinct possibillity.

        • cielo62 says:

          Trained Observer~ Well, we DO have “Student teachers” who learn under the direct mentorship of a licensed teacher while in an actual classroom. But Shellie hasn’t done ANYTHING remotely like work, study or take classes for over 2 years. I think the OS is full of BS.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Flipped. Wow. Hot stuff. I hadn’t even thought of that either. I thought the prosecution had added Shellie and other family members to the list because of their participation in jail calls, media events, etc.

        The plot sure does thicken!

        • Xena says:

          There was a request, IIRC, by the prosecution several weeks ago for ShelLIE’s phone records dating back to 2/26/12.

          • racerrodig says:

            And who’s been saying “Phone Records” since last April Huhh??

            Go ahead say it…………!! Come on !!

          • Xena says:


            Go ahead say it…………!! Come on !!

            You said it!!!

            But who has said since August last year that the FBI enhanced the recording of the 911 call that captured the screams because GZ’s voice is heard cursing at Trayvon? 🙂

          • racerrodig says:

            If I recall accurately, that would be you. Correct me if I’m wrong.

            So what’s going on on Monday ?? I can tell you what’s not going on, but then that would be like “Gloating” now wouldn’t it??

          • Xena says:

            @racerrodig. Hahaha!

            So what’s going on on Monday ??

            Millions of Americans will return to work after having the weekend off. Others will continue their job search.

            I can tell you what’s not going on,

            GZ, Junior, and ShelLIE, will not be going to work like millions of other Americans because they are unemployed and not seeking employment.

            but then that would be like “Gloating” now wouldn’t it??

            Nah. Just common sense. 🙂

          • racerrodig says:

            Okay, I was prepared to take the hit for gloating, but you know more than I so………..

          • Xena says:


            Okay, I was prepared to take the hit for gloating, but you know more than I so………..

            How many prophets are there in the Bible? Even Jesus had 13 Apostles. God never tells one person everything. 🙂

            But I do predict that after Monday, Tuesday will come. 🙂

            Oh — and LLMPapa will have a new video released before Wednesday.

          • racerrodig says:

            Let me top that by saying the forecast is mostly dark followed by widely scattered light in the morning.

            So Monday Fogen will sleep in as usual ??

          • Xena says:


            So Monday Fogen will sleep in as usual ??

            Which is not much sleep at all. He stays awake 10 hours a day in order to maintain his diet. When he wakes up, he does cat swipes while saying to ShelLIE that he was dreaming about fighting off food.

          • racerrodig says:

            So he’s a failure at food fighting as well…..

          • Xena says:


            So he’s a failure at food fighting as well…..

            Just like his story about Trayvon attacking him, he’s a failure at lying about swiping at food. Just look at him — 100 lbs in less than a year.

          • racerrodig says:

            As I said before, yo do know what he says most often…………

            “………….you gonna finish that….”

          • cielo62 says:

            racer~ YOU HAVE oh most Exhalted One! 🙂

          • racerrodig says:

            Well I’m not unitron so the exalted part doesn’t apply. But I did pick up on phone records and my LE guys let me know in their own inimitable way that I’m right on target.

            If I’d have stayed at a Holiday Inn, exalted might apply, but since I didn’t……

      • Trained Observer says:

        That Mrs. Fogen MAY HAVE flipped leaves me ecstatic with pondering possibilities.

        She likely knows:

        * Who, if anybody, was in the schtruck with Fogen that night.
        * Whether Fogen first stalked Trayvon at the sister’s apartment complex.
        * Where Osterman was when the shooting occurred.
        * Who all in the ‘hood conspired to cover up the stalking.
        * Why Fogen was packing her gun and not his own.
        * More juicy details on the PeterPan money trail.
        * Equally juicy stuff on Fogen’s notions of starting a security biz.

        * What, if any, link Fogen had with some of the break-ins.
        * What was in the package Fogen mailed after the shooting.

        And ever so much more dirt. Who needs sleeping pills when all this can be considered when drifting off 🙂 🙂 🙂

      • ay2z says:

        That would explain her presence on the witness list and would also explain how she would testify by some agreement?

        At the moment, there seems to be no plea arrangement, the defense has a few irons to pull out of the coals first. And Shellie’s lawyer was still as of Weds, playing his writ, that is his previously denied, writ card.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        I had thought she was pregnant in her court appearance in Feb. If so, perhaps her continuance is to get past her due date.

      • Rachael says:

        @ Cercando Luce”

        “I had thought she was pregnant in her court appearance in Feb. If so, perhaps her continuance is to get past her due date.”

        I thought she couldn’t get pregnant – or was it that she didn’t want to (wouldn’t blame her for that one, considering).

        But really now, do you think MOM and Jr., especially Jr., would keep quiet about that? They want attention and the money (they think) it brings so they wouldn’t hesitate for a second to somehow slip that out if it were the case. Although maybe somehow under HIPAA She’lLie wouldn’t let them if she didn’t want it known, and I wouldn’t blame her. Eccchhhh, it would be like one of those horror movies, being impregnated by the devil.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Rachael, LMAO on your comment, “like being impregnated by the DEVIL” now that is too darn funny to boot! even though he thinks he’s his mommy’s good little alter boy, he is actually the spawn of the devil himself. the same goes for Joonyah as well.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Xena, he sure as heck didn’t count on the FBI , the DOJ and even the governor of Florida getting involved in all of this. he just knew that he had gotten away with another crime, just as he have done many times before.

        No Fogen not this time and, your paying for murdering an innocent kid in cold blood is definitely GOD’S plan. and for those of us who want justice for Trayvon Benjamin Martin, will neither judge it or second guess GOD’S will be done. 35-life porky, thirty five to life.

        • Xena says:


          @Xena, he sure as heck didn’t count on the FBI , the DOJ and even the governor of Florida getting involved in all of this….

          He didn’t count on Black parents having dignity and know-how to pursue justice for their son who GZ killed. Neither did he think that his NEN call would be broadcast to the nation, which spurred the FBI and Florida governor to get involved.

          35-life porky, thirty five to life.

          35 if he pleads guilty. Life if he goes to trial.

      • Trained Observer says:

        @cielo62 — Universities and hospitals have accredited R.N. and L.P.N. programs in place with uniformed student nurses working with patients as well. Signing up for an online class in whatever she was taking (medical billing and coding, maybe?) hardly makes one a student nurse — unless we want to count the butterfly bandanges she so artfully slapped on Fogen’s weenie wounds on the night of Trayvon’s murder. .

    • Rachael says:

      Flipping might explain why the’ve left her trial for after so as not to prejuduce potential jurors now.

      • Rachael says:

        Wow! Lol. The professor wasn’t thete when I said that but it took me lo.ger to text it on my phone but i thought the same thing lol

      • Xena says:


        Flipping might explain why the’ve left her trial for after so as not to prejuduce potential jurors now.

        I see that also as a possibility. Pitiful ShelLIE. Her life has certainly not improved with marriage to GZ. Bet she could slap Sondra from Florida to Japan for introducing them.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Am betting that foursome won’t be doing any spring picnics together.

      • ay2z says:

        But she still might have to testify to something somehow under some agreement, and hubby might not be on board quite yet.

        Say, hope she is not still with junior and his family 24 hrs per day. She could be in serious trouble if she were a threat to those people.

      • Rachael says:

        With her being on the witness for the prosecution list, it makes me wonder if she is still there at all.

      • aussie says:

        Nope. Think about it. Really think about it.

        IF she was offered a deal to flip, such as “we let you off, no prosecution” they can’t really do that BEFORE GZ’s trial without giving the game away, can they now?

        First she can give the evidence, then as per the deal afterward they just withdraw the case against her.

        • cielo62 says:

          aussie~ and if Shellie is truly an abused wife, ( as some have speculated) this could give her the freedom to move on. Sure hope it’s true.

    • pat deadder says:

      I have always believed Shelley was with him that night maybe not at the scene but in the truck.I also think she is just as racist as fogen and egged him on on many occasions.Osterman said he met Shelley at the scene.Perhaps BDLR has some kind of proof she was with him.During the jail tapes there is no utterance from either of them about the human life that he took.It’s just all about them and the joke about fogen wearing his hoodie was reprehensible.As well to me West is as disgusting as Omara just not a media whore.

      • Xena says:

        @Pat Deadder. ShelLIE gives me the impression that she’s the type of pre-Civil War woman who believes her husband is to protect her from Black men. She’s too afraid to get a job; too afraid to go grocery shopping alone; too afraid of her own shadow. GZ was more than willing to play the role of knight in shining armor.

      • Trained Observer says:

        @Xena — Your take in ShelLIE is interesting. Must admit, mine’s quite the opposite. I see her as having been around the block a few times, racking up a lot of mileage and tired of low level minimum wage jobs in sometimes unsavory places. Upon being introduced to Fogen by the O’s, she (quite stupidly) was favorably impressed, and bought into his bull about how “she’d never need to work again” unless she wanted. Given her own family background (I think her dad is an ex-con), even Gladazz and Bobbles likely looked good as gravy trains to her. I just don’t see her as a delicate flower afraid of men, black or white. Given your perception, I could be way off …

        One thing’s for sure … we’ll be learning more about this damsel in distress 🙂 🙂 🙂

        • Xena says:

          @Trained Observer.

          I see her as having been around the block a few times, racking up a lot of mileage and tired of low level minimum wage jobs in sometimes unsavory places.

          Oh, I don’t disagree with you there. ShelLIE is an all out con artist just like her hubby. GZ has the need to be needed, and the need to believe he is the police of the world. ShelLIE plays into that need so she won’t have to earn her own money.

          Also, it interests me that GZ found no need to tell her how to access the Paypal account until AFTER he was arrested. Had he not been arrested, ShelLIE would still be dependent on the Osterman’s to support her.

      • Trained Observer says:

        @Zena — Yes, his lack of sharing a PeterPan password from the get-go with her was a tell. One of the jailhouse conversations with the whispering sister also was v-e-r-y strange, as if SZ might be the wife, but she was not worth counting on in the smarts department, or perhaps other departments as well. IF SZ flips, she’ll be a whole lot smarter than that there Z-fam thunk.

      • Trained Observer says:

        @Xena, not Zena … all this talk about the Z-fam has me in z-mode. Sorry.

  25. Xena says:

    A first reading of O’Mara’s response conveys that he wants the court to make a quasi-ruling on evidence outside of trial, i.e.; regarding who was screaming for help. That enhanced tape must really have his panties in a bunch. Whose voice is captured on that 911 recording should be decided at trial — not in an order to unseal the settlement instrument.

    Evidently, O’Mara has been unable to find an expert to testify that it’s GZ screaming, because they can hear GZ cursing at Trayvon simultaneous with the screams.

    • Bill Taylor says:

      exactly, the cleaned up tape is ALL that is needed…..play the tape of fogen questioning and cursing at Trayvon while Martin pleads for his life…..the courtroom will fall silent except for the sobbing and crying as they hear with their own ears a cold blooded MURDER as it happened!

      • Xena says:

        @Bill Taylor

        exactly, the cleaned up tape is ALL that is needed…..

        That’s the way I see it too, and I can’t see any reason why Judge Nelson would not allow the entry of the enhanced tape into evidence.

        play the tape of fogen questioning and cursing at Trayvon while Martin pleads for his life…..

        It also contradicts GZ’s claim of being smothered while mounted. That in fact, it refutes GZ’s entire story of Trayvon having a physical advantage of opening a can of whip-ass on him.

        the courtroom will fall silent except for the sobbing and crying as they hear with their own ears a cold blooded MURDER as it happened!

        Indeed!! And, O’Mara has good reason to know that there is no defense he can present to prove that GZ killed Trayvon in self-defense.

      • looolooo says:

        I’m with ya Bill & Xena!

    • elcymoo says:

      I laughed when I saw that the defense team objected (in their response to the motion regarding confidentiality of the settlement amount) to the taking ‘one sentence out of context’ where GZ told Serino that the screams ‘didn’t even sound like me’. Just like Tracy Martin, GZ’s first respnse when he was asked if it was his voice on that 911 tape was ‘No’. It’s all on the interview tape.

      • Bill Taylor says:

        the truth about what Tracy Martin said is this = he was asked could he BE CERTAIN, that was his son on the tape and he responded NO he could NOT BE CERTAIN…..

        serino i think it was later made the claim he said NO to the simple question is that your son…….there are interviews out there with Tracy making this point clear.

      • renosweeney says:

        Or Tracy merely uttered a gutteral “no’ in disbelief as he heard his son’s cries, the the police R wrongly presuming it was in response to their question.

        I know when I hear bad news I tend to just say “no” (as in NO, I don’t want that to be true), in an automatic response.

        • racerrodig says:

          Almost all of us react that way. I’ve had more than a few phone calls in which the caller states that a mutual friend died and I almost always react with “…no way, what happened…”

          If someone shows me a picture that’s not me I’m sure I’ll say “…that doesn’t even look like me…” I’ve played guitar in quite a few rock bands in my time…..listen to Johnny Winter……it doesn’t even sound like me, as much ad I’d like it to, nor does Roger Daltry even sound like me.

          If O’ Mara goes down that road I’m sure BDLR will make him pay and then they’ll all have a squeaky little whiny “…never mind…”

      • Trained Observer says:

        @Bill Taylor — Agreed. In fact, who among us upon learning a loved one had been coldly shot dead could say we WERE CERTAIN of anything including our own names in a situation like that?

    • gbrbsb says:


      “…they can hear GZ cursing at Trayvon simultaneous with the screams.

      Xena. Posters are frequently referring to GZ cursing on the 911 call as well as to a cleaned up tape that a poster did, or had done, with top of the range equipment, (could it be racer) on which you can hear GZ’s cursing below Trayvon clearly so. Do you by chance have the link as I hear GZ calling out, NOT screamign, “help me” several times below and in between Trayvon’s screams, but I have so far been unable to hear GZ cursing. If there is proof GZ is cursing and interrogating while Trayvon is screaming then I presume the prosecution either has or needs a similar cleaned up audio as it must form one of the very major parts of their prosecutions case so I suppose I will hear it then but it would be nice to hear it before.

      • Xena says:


        If there is proof GZ is cursing and interrogating while Trayvon is screaming then I presume the prosecution either has or needs a similar cleaned up audio as it must form one of the very major parts of their prosecutions case so I suppose I will hear it then but it would be nice to hear it before.

        I’ve admitted to only hearing GZ’s voice (angry tone) without making out his words except for one, where he says “fuck” just before Trayvon screams “Nooooo.” That happened after the redacted portion of the call. I can only imagine what prosecutors hear in the unredacted version.

        I listened to the recording using Microsoft headphones, and an equalizer adjustment on Sony software. I do not have a way of posting the saved recording on my blog.

      • Trained Observer says:

        @gbrbsb & Zena — As usual, with the voice accompanying the screams, it will be Fogen’s own words that convict. So deserving.

      • racerrodig says:

        That would be me. I used my studio mic preamp, my EQ and studio headphones and I can very, very faintly hear Fogen and what sounds like a female voice. I asked a friend of mine who has real hi-tech equipment to focus on the 3rd voice.

        Move along to SheLie and “the silence being deafening” aspect, being on the State’s list and I believe there is something there.

        Back to hi-tech. For some reason, we cannot reproduce the background voice on any media, yet we both hear the same thing. This is on one of the 911 witness calls, I’m at the wrong computer to say which, but, it’s chilling what is said. We forwarded this to one of my Federal connections. They won’t ever tell us what they find until we all hear it at trial.

        Suffice it to say, I believe if it is cleaned up and this turns out to be what we hear, SheLie better flip, and I’m betting Osterman is involved as well.

      • JUN says:

        I hear Trayvon screaming and pleading for his life, and telling Fogen to get off him. At one point you can hear Trayvon make a squealing noise in pain (perhaps this is the cause of the global brain edema?). I then hear a creepy whispery pedo voice that is similar to Fogen’s, but I cant make out what is being said. I hear Jeremy get really scared and telling the cops to hurry up, as Jeremy sounds like he is in desperate need.

        • gbrbsb says:

          Then we are on the same audio length Jun because I hear more or less the same as you. In respect of the global oedema to the brain, IIRC, a nurse, or a friend of a nurse, who used to post here and maybe still does, explained that it was caused by a lack of oxygenated blood to the brain after the shot.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        @gbrbsb — that was probably me explaining the global edema in trayvon’s autopsy. when it first became available, i printed it off and went to my mom’s house to review. mom is a still practicing RN at 75 and helped me a lot to put medical language into simple terms (much like the professor does for us). her evaluation was that global edema is caused by two primary reasons — blunt force trauma and lack of oxygen. since there was no indication of trauma, we had to deduce that the edema was likely due to lack of oxygen from the death process itself.

        • gbrbsb says:

          I get the simplification, but in reality the Oedema was caused by a lack of oxygenated blood to the brain and not from “lack of oxygen” per se, because it is likely Trayvon continued breathing a minute, two, even three depending on which forensic expert you believe, it was that the air was not getting into the blood or being pumped where needed.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            To understand what happened when the shot was fired, you have to understand the mechanism by which breathing and speech occurs.

            The lungs reside in the chest cavity called the plural cavity. This cavity maintains a negative pressure that keeps the lungs inflated. The diaphragm pulls downwards increasing this negative pressure, causing the lungs to fill with air, then relaxes and the chest compresses, squeezing air out of the lungs.

            So the lungs are like two balloons within a larger, more rigid container. The ability to breathe and speak depends on the ability to move air in and out of the lungs, which in turn depends on the integrity of the pleural cavity, so that pressure increases and decreases empty and fill the lungs with air respectively.

            Once the pleural cavity is punctured by the bullet, the system no longer works. The pressure inside the plural cavity immediately begins to rise, allowing the lungs to collapse/deflate. The diaphragm will no longer increase or decrease the pressure inside the pleural cavity because of the hole in it. Instead of being able to draw air into the lungs, the attempt to inhale merely draws air in though the hole in the chest. The lungs remain collapsed.

            Therefore, once the pleural cavity is punctured, the ability to breathe is lost. The lungs will not operate, and the victim can neither inhale nor exhale without external assistance.

            The shot GZ took was not the kind of shot one would expect would be needed to stop an unarmed, lightweight, non-violent teenager. We know that GZ was not facing certain death at the hands of a violent teen in full assault mode, because there is no evidence that Trayvon ever used his hands, not even for defensive purposes. Thus there cannot be seen any reason why, this especially deadly shot had to be taken. Save that a depraved mind was intending to kill for self satisfactory reasons.

          • gbrbsb says:

            @Lonnie Starr

            To understand what happened when the shot was fired, you have to understand the mechanism by which breathing and speech occurs.

            As well as understand the mechanism by which oxygen, a gas, passes into blood, a liquid which you haven’t explained… but not sure essential to know for this case. Anyway, if your explanation was for me a partner of mine suffered several Primary Spontaneous Pneumothorax (PSP), three intubated hospitalisations in our 5 years, so I am aware of how it all works. I think Faux does too, I just wanted to clarify that lack of oxygenated blood to the brain is more specific than “lack of oxygen” especially for Jun who appeared to think Trayvon’s “squeal” could have caused the oedema which I doubt.

    • wouldn’t any cleaned up tape be considered work product of the state? if the state has an expert witness who cleaned up the tape and will testify about it and if they had this one or another expert come in and analyze the clearer version, and they identified 2 voices, one being gz as the one cursing at the screaming child, do they have to turn that over as discovery like omar said in the motion?
      because in the motion he said if MrCrump or Bernie had one he didn’t know about it as if he’s entitled to!
      I think I know the state doesn’t have to provide the defense a report, but do they have to give them a clean copy too?

      • Xena says:


        wouldn’t any cleaned up tape be considered work product of the state?

        I’m not sure of the answer. At one of the hearings, I think back in October, as O’Mara was bellyaching about the State not turning over names of witnesses who said it was GZ’s voice, I remember BDLR saying that the State had turned over everything that was Brady material on that matter, and that the defense had a copy of the recording.

        O’Mara wants his hand held while prosecutors point out everything and every argument they plan to present at trial. That ain’t gonna happen. It’s not a divorce case where attorneys vie back and forth hoping for a settlement or stipulation.

        • xena, I remember that. so brady is evidence that could help gz.
          so since there is NO Brady (or the Waltons and sure ain’t no jacksons) in existence, omar shouldn’t expect anything to come LOL

          basically omar just wants Bernie to do his job for him and make his life easier. and surely they wouldn’t think of wasting any of that so-called defense fund to, I don’t know, like maybe to defend the murderer!
          let’s not spend any of gz’s living expense money on a dumb ol expert!!LOL

          • Xena says:

            @Shannoninmiami. I did the following video for you. It’s from the hearing discussing whether the State providing info of voice identification and an enhanced tape is Brady material. It ends with pertinent parts of a court document filed by Blackwell.

          • Xena, wow, thank you very much!
            so you’re going into video production now?? I just don’t want you to start narrating them like Trent using all that naughty language! 😉

            in that clip it sounds like west is defiantly trying to insinuate ( so the TV audience can hear ) there’s 2 other witnesses that *identified* gz as the one screaming for help, other than himself and his papa!
            does that sound like that to you? because west isn’t saying what he really wants to say, he’s skating around his true intentions; which is if BDLR has someone who will say they can hear gz yelling and cursing at Trayvon, that he wants that info too!
            but west is asking it in a way to make it sound as if any identifying of gz’s voice will be of him screaming for help. and acting ignorant of the possibility that the actual identifying of gz’s voice is of him cursing?

            idk I had to listen to that video 3 times to try to understand what west was implying.

          • Xena says:


            idk I had to listen to that video 3 times to try to understand what west was implying.

            West doesn’t stay on point, and he doesn’t stay on point because what he requests from the court, and what he really wants, are two different things.

            So, West gives an honorable mention to there being an enhanced tape that the defense does not have. But, he also wants to know if the prosecution has played the tape for witnesses and if witnesses identified the cries for help as GZ’s voice. BDLR tells him in certain terms to listen to the recording himself. If others can hear two voices, then he should be able to hear the same.

      • An enhanced tape would not be Brady material because it would be inculpatory, not exculpatory.

        The prosecution would have to turn over a copy to the defense, however, if it intends to introduce it into evidence. It would also have to identify the expert witness who produced the enhanced version and provide a copy of their CV or resume.

        The expert would lay the foundation to admit the exhibit into evidence by identifying it and describing what he did to enhance it. He would also explain in a general way what the enhancement accomplished leaving it to the jury to decide what they actually hear.

        BDLR would move it into evidence and after Judge Nelson admitted the exhibit, the expert would play it for the jury.

        Headphones would be provided so that each juror could listen to the tape.

        The defense would have an opportunity to cross examine the expert after BDLR finishes the direct examination.

        • Thank you very much for the clarification Professor of the inculpatory and exculpatory. it’s really good to hear from you again. ( I think/hope I am 🙂

          so is what your saying in this case, is an enhanced tape is not necessarily Brady material like west is implying because #1. BDLR is looking at it as yes, it may be shown as GZ’s voice, but as the one cursing NOT screaming for help and, #2 an enhanced tape is regular discovery if BDLR is going to introduce it in court. and if so the defense is entitled to a copy of it, the witness who worked on it and their credentials? but the witness isn’t going to be giving his/her opinion because that’s the juries job?

          I think that’s what was confusing.. so basically the audio expert won’t be able to say definitively anyway which voice is or is not gz’s..

          What I was thinking is if the defense want’s a clear copy they have to hire their own audio expert. I was thinking the defense didn’t want to bother spending their own money on someone to enhance the tape, especially since it’s just going to be another nail in gz’s coffin, and they wanted the state to do it for them and hand it over.. but your saying that if the state plans on using any better quality of the recording they’ve got to give it up even if it’s gonna show gz lied about who was screaming. damn! I guess I was just wanting the defense to have to do their own leg work and stop leaching evidence off the state.

          • I think that’s what was confusing.. so basically the audio expert won’t be able to say definitively anyway which voice is or is not gz’s..

            I didn’t intend to say that an audio expert cannot specifically identify one or both voices.

            There were only two people involved and the identification of one voice beyond a reasonable doubt identifies the second voice by a process of elimination.

            I believe the context of the situation constitutes a more reliable and powerful method of identifying both voices. In other words, it doesn’t take a weatherman to tell which way the wind blows.

            The testimony of an audiologist might reasonably be expected to confirm what can be figured out from the context and would be icing on the cake.

            Basically, the context of the situation, which we know from our common sense, is that the person shrieking is not the person who shoots the gun and the person shooting isn’t shooting in self-defense. He’s terrorizing the person shrieking. Because the shriek ended with the gunshot, the shooter shot and killed the shrieker.

            The victim of the gunshot was Trayvon Martin, so he was the person shrieking and the defendant has already admitted that he was the shooter.

            Everything else is window dressing.

            All of the evidence that I have reviewed supports that conclusion.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            With that, Professor, you’ve closed the coffin and nailed it securely shut. Even so, there’s still room to an yet another nail… That being that for GZ to even offer any alternative to your described conclusions, he first needs some credibility to do so. So that, at the least, jurors could puzzle over “since he doesn’t lie, there must be some reason why he has this contrary view to offer”. Instead we know that he does lie easily, thus his challenges to the expected are all to easy to dismiss.

            Actually, GZ’s word against anyone’s word is no longer a toss up, but loss for GZ if there is no hard evidence to support his claims.
            As MMP would say:
            “Hie Ho, Hie Ho, it’s off to jail you go! ”
            [hahaha, me putting words in someone’s mouth.]

          • cielo62 says:

            Lonnie Starr~ LOL! Well, that SOUNDS like something MMP would say!

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          However, I don’t think they’d have to turn it over until they were satisfied that they were finished and had completed any needed reports. So, it’s not like they’re getting a finished product that they would have to hand over immediately, but until they were ready to turn it over, it would probably be considered a work in progress.
          The SP wouldn’t have to turn over work in progress.

      • cielo62 says:

        shannoninmiami~ MOM got the original version like the state did. MOM needs to do his OWN “clean up” of the tape, so that he can’t insinuate that the state somehow “manipulated” the recording. But MOM (as has been pointed out many times) wants the State to connect the dots FOR him. It doesn’t work that way.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        They are only obligated to turn over the original “native” copies they received, “cleaned up” copies are work product copies. The defense can do it’s own clean up for comparison at trial if there’s a difference discovered.

        • he’s got 3400. but if you look at his timeline he doesn’t actually speak to any normal people.
          and i’d say at least 3/4 th are people who are only watching his tweets out of curiosity and Trayvon supporters to keep an eye on him.

          here’s a tidbit I just saw. jr is tweeting w/the regular vile racists and this person and info has just come up/ I can’t investigate now but i’ll leave it here to see if anyone recognizes this person.

          .@ell1967 Wonder what THIS is all about?Involved with Bill Lee 6/2012?? @sherriwilkie @artceta @rzimmermanjr twitter.com/BoiGal2/status…— BoiGal2 (@BoiGal2) April 21, 2013

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Only 3400??? No sweat then, he’s not popular at all. He’s more of a curiosity than a celebrity. With the tv coverage and world wide interest in this case I’d expect him to easily have several tens of thousands of followers. One could probably get more than 3400 followers with cat poems. 😆

          • why yes Lonnie as a matter of fact I follow a *cat* on twitter and it has over 20K followers!!LMAO

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            So he’s only .17% as popular as a cat. hmmm, I think it’s time for him to face the facts and give up. The big prime time shows look carefully at the kind of attention a prospect is able to generate. If he can’t beat a cat on twitter, it’s time to pack it in. 😆

          • LOL he’s a complete POS!

            so in the past few days after I read omar’s response to Ben Crump I’ve been getting a little pissed off at jr for his endless self promotion online!

            and today I’ve been on a rampage against him about this new thing called “subtweeting” TO Sybrina!
            what he’s doing is going back and forth on twitter with his marry band of idiots, saying things about Trayvon, Sybrina and everyone else. you know the usual thing, thugifying Trayvon, oh the new one is neither parent has acknowledged Trayvon living with them, as if they didn’t want him. just making snide nasty comments. BUT ADDING Sybrina’s name in the tweets so she can see them!! it’s fucking driving me out of my mind!! so I’ve had to fight back seriously! nastily! he want’s to get nasty and try to hurt Sybrina, well then he better prepare to receive it too!

            you see they only pick on people who can’t or won’t fight back. see the pattern in the family?

          • cielo62 says:

            Lonnie Starr~ HEY! Some cat poems are pretty good!   >^.. ^<

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            My point exactly, apparently RZjr isn’t quite that good.

    • ay2z says:

      And Shellie

      And Mama Z

      • ay2z says:

        Will Sims successfully prevent Shellie from taking the stand because of her pending case? Or will she be able to take the 5th on any question, or can she claim protection from being witness against a spouse?

        • She will not testify at the trial, or even be called to the stand, because she would take the 5th.

          EDIT: Unless Shellie has flipped and agreed to testify against the defendant, she will not testify.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Like the professor’s edit a lot, as in a whole bunch, a hopeful whole bunch!

      • Rachael says:

        I know. Wouldn’t it be wonderful? And considering they are holding her trial until after GZ’s there is hope for that at this time. Anyway, so far she is the only one who has kept quiet and out of the limelight.

    • Rachael says:

      my lunch just came back up.

      • ay2z says:

        Sorry Rachel. I think junior may take this as a personal victory, inserting himself into the case so he can speak for his brother and rant during the trial.

        • Witnesses cannot rant or give speeches during a trial. They can only answer questions.

          If they stray beyond the specific question asked, their answer can be stricken upon a proper objection and the judge will instruct the jury to disregard the non-responsive answer.

      • Rachael says:

        I know. That’s why I threw up. I can see him hijacking the whole thing, getting up there with his oratory and (hopefully) having to be escorted away by the bailiff because he won’t STFU. He will try to turn it into his own little theatrical performance.

      • truthseeker66 says:

        I don’t think BDLR will let him. There is a difference between being on a talk show and testifying under oath.
        Just saying…

      • Rachael says:

        Oh, I know, but we all know that won’t stop him from trying. And when they tell him to answer just yes or no, he will feel slighted, poor baby, and it will give him endless fodder for endless tweets, TV, and radio rants. He should be fined for air pollution.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        “He should be fined for air pollution” – LOL!:D So true. Or screen pollution!

    • lol yep dumb ass Jr finally got his ticket to stardom alright! he can get there on the *stage/witness stand and tell everyone about those filthy tweets and idiot comments he makes! I hope he does something to get himself in contempt of court.

      Joonyah is >>> #superstar LMAO

      hey, you think this might make him finally STFU?

      • Malisha says:

        PROSECUTORS added Junior to THEIR list.
        Not defense.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Why not, he’s been a very big help to the prosecution.

          • racerrodig says:

            If they put Robbie the Racist on the stand it’s just so us members of Team Trayvon get more to laugh about, talk about, post about and have the last word about.

            In other words as we say in the business “….for shits and giggles…”

      • Malisha says:

        Junior has had such a peculiar “joyride” with the journalists that I think he may imagine he’ll take his oath and then begin to pontificate on the stand during the trial.

        Dream on, Junior, dream… 🙄

    • Mike says:

      Also looks like Jr launched his news reporter twitter campaign, he’s such a desperate attention whore.

      • yeah I noticed last night after the bomber was caught. I saw he sat there and tweeted a play by play with faux news. he actually thanked his tweeters for their attention! and one moron even told him he did a good job!!
        he defiantly thinks he’s a somebody! he really thinks he’s getting some kind of show or something! I want him to be smashed like a bug, to be the laughing stock of even the shithouse crew, like omar, why wont they turn on him too!!!???

        he makes me wanna puke I just want his to stfu and go back under his rock! nobody likes him!!! well, nobody important! god I can’t stand him!!!!!!!!!!

        • cielo62 says:

          shannoninmiami~ once dear lil bro is in prison, Joonya will discover exactly how much of a media non-entity he really is.

          • you know i’m just so paranoid the TV shows will be letting JR get on TV and blab all about how terrible the state’s case is going or what not.. he’s already starting to do it on twitter as if he’s some sort of reporter!

            in the jody arias case there’s a woman who sits in the court room and watched the trial and tweets what’s happening all day. she’s not a real reported but every evening she’s on Dr,Drew’s show and called Dr. Drew’s Juror.
            she see’s what we don’t see so she always reports your know what the jury is doing and what Jodi is acting like and stuff.. and this woman has gotten a bit famous doing this. she’s got like 3000 followers like jr does on twitter, even I follow her because I like to know what’s going on in the courtroom…

            so this is kinda what I can imagine jr is fantasizing about doing on like faux news shows at night since he’ll be allowed inside the courtroom the whole time.

          • cielo62 says:

            Shanonninmiami- he can dream, and maybe even tweet to his hearts content. But once GZ is in the big house, junior will once again be a big huge NOBODY

            Sent from my iPod

          • you better be right!! or i’m coming to getcha!!!!!!!!!

            hey I just remembered something! what if now the jr is on the states witness list he’s NOT ALLOWED to comment on the evidence!! what if he’s not even allowed in the courtroom until he’s testified!!LOLOL

            and what if the state is sneakier that we think and just put his name on the list for just this reason, to keep him from blabbing about evidence and especially to keep him OUT of the courtroom during trial so he can’t know whats going on!!??? and what if they don’t even intend to call him at all lolololo

          • cielo62 says:

            Shannoninmiami- oh that would be SO delicious! Barred at the door!

            Sent from my iPod

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Just curious, how many followers does he have?

  26. the night this happened im sure Trayvon’s parents had no dollar amount in their mind. the settlement came to them because of what zimmerman did to thier son. certainly not something Trayvon’s parents arranged, asked for or had anything to do with.

      • oh god it’s so hard. her pain is so raw you can feel it in her voice. I knew she was only living for her other son, she knows she can’t leave him. but she’s struggling so much. she needs some serious professional help too though because her world is so completely different and she’ll have to learn how to live in it. i’m so sorry for her and Tracy. I so hope she gets comfort knowing we are all here for her. XOXO

    • ay2z says:

      (reset featured video but still ‘featured’ link is not for the current video, sorry)

  27. Rachael says:

    Like I said in my previous post just before this went up, to suggest that Trayvon’s parents cannot be credible because they are in it for the money is so objectionable, so morally reprehensible and disgusting, I can’t believe MOM would even say such a thing!!! That is definitely right out of outhouse playbook!!! I swear, MOM is getting more hateable every day.

    I really don’t know how Trayvon’s family is managing, I just don’t.

    • FactsFirst says:

      “I will permit NO MAN to narrow and degrade my soul by making me hate him.” ….Booker T. Washington

      • Rachael says:

        Whew. Thank you. Sometimes I need a reminder like that to pull me away from the brink. It is so hard sometimes.

      • FactsFirst says:

        My pleasure… We’re all in this together… ((EHUGS))


      • Two sides to a story says:

        Also remember that all beings simply want happiness and to be free from suffering. Some just screw up and go about this in ways that don’t bring them happiness and do bring them suffering.

    • racerrodig says:

      I have to add that Trayvon’s parents identified the scream as their sons, how long ago ?? Like In Feb. of last year long ago.

      And they initiated a litigation when ??

      Note to O’ Mara…..Get a Grip.

  28. Trained Observer says:

    Professor — Now that they have the money in hand via settlement, what incentive or motivation would there be to lie on the stand? (This is not to suggest that Martin and Fulton are anything but straight-arrow honest in their grief.)

    O’Mara seems more intent on creating creating these tempests in teapots than in defending his sorry client, and that’s shameful in itself.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      OM creates the illusion of a tough defense for Fogen supporters and keeps the trickle of donations flowing in.

    • Rachael says:

      @Trained Observer,

      “O’Mara seems more intent on creating creating these tempests in teapots than in defending his sorry client, and that’s shameful in itself.”

      That IS his defense. He seems to be hoping that people will pay more attention to the tempest than his client. It is TOTALLY trying the case in public.

      I would like to say that will have nothing to do with what actually happens once he gets into a courtroom that is full of jurors who haven’t followed the case the way we (or even the outhouse) has on a daily basis so may not know of his efforts, but I don’t know. I just don’t know.

      And of course once someone is picked as a juror, what’s to say that they won’t go home and look stuff up on the internet to find out everything they can about the case, even though told not to. It’s not like they are going to be sequestered from the start or their computers monitored.

      Osterman was wrong. GZ is not the most hated man in America, he’s about to share that titled with O’Mara – which might also be a part of his plan – for people to hate him takes some of it off of GZ. It doesn’t for me, I have plenty to go around for both of them. But it is obvious now he’ll try ANYTHING.

      • Trained Observer says:

        In addition, Team Fogen is likely gnashing collective teeth that all this ongoing Boston tragedy drama is diverting attention from their campaign for sympathy dollars. The most hated men in America now are likely the two bombers cum shooters.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Yup, they keep getting upstaged. And the majority of Americans are not following Fogen’s case as closely as we are, so though OM is attempting to try the case in public, I doubt he’s reaching as many people as he thinks he is despite the national venues.

        Of course, that’s all subject to change when the trial actually begins. That will perk a lot of interest again.

        • cielo62 says:

          Two Sides~ I don’t know. With this latest terrorist attack, I think GZs story will merit coverage on the B12 section of the paper. WAYYYY in the back.

      • pat deadder says:

        To Rachael Osterman was wrong GZis not the most hated man in America.I think Osterman was wrong about a hell of a lot more than that about his best friend GZ.Can I also ask you Can it be brought up in fogen’s trial about the perjury about the money.

        • racerrodig says:

          I’m still a more than a bit confused about that “…token white friend….” crap. Where are all those balack friends and when does that march start Ostermoron talked about??????

    • Tzar says:

      what incentive or motivation would there be to lie on the stand?

      what about revenge?

      that’s the retardation of O’Mara’s argument, the Martins are adversarial to his client because their child was killed, because fogen’s and company have vilified them and their child, because fogen and company are assholes etc…they have plenty of reason to lie. The problem is having a reason to lie is not a evidence that one is lying.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Trayvon’s parents are so dignified, so thoughtful, so altogether classy …. jurors will get that in a heartbeat. Can’t say the same for Fogen’s old man. Have a feeling Gladazz will remain in seclusion rather than show up to defend her killer son, and that also won’t escape juror attention.

      • Inquiry regarding a possible revenge motive to lie would be proper cross examination to show that the witness is prejudiced against a party to the lawsuit.

        A lawyer may cross examine a witness regarding any bias or prejudice the witness might have for or against a party.

        Having a financial interest in the outcome of a case is true of any party to a lawsuit, but it is merely a motive to lie and not actual evidence that a witness lied under oath. Whether a witness lied will depend on other evidence.

        • Tzar says:

          thank you professor
          I wish fogenites could admit that fogen had motive to lie while recognizing that fogen is impeached, not by that motive, but by the logical and logistical impossibility of his claims and the forensic evidence

      • JUN says:

        Let’s be truthful

        A possible allegation of a motive to lie at most

        They would need evidence of bias, which is to show lying to help their cause but the problem is only Fogen has lied to help his cause and so has Omara

        I think it is massive projection because everything Omara says actually applies to him

        Omara and Fogen have colluded to scam the court and structure and lie about money and passports

        Omara repeatedly misrepresents the evidence in the public and goes on a murderous rampage whenever Fogen loses headlines by saying something that is basically a lie to favor Fogen or show his bias

        It is up to a reasonable person standard and impartial jury

        The fact of the matter is all parties have an interest in the case

        Omara also has a financial interest in the case, hence him media whoring and whoring to right wing wackos, and suing NBC, and him begging for funds, and misrepresenting the evidence while at the same time pissing on the grave of a 17 year old unarmed and murdered boy

        Does Omara really want to open that door, or open pandora’s box?

        I am thinking he will, he has already acted disrespectful and immoral in public, why would he act any different in a court room?

        I’d worry but there’s a lot of mud that can be flung at Omara and Fogen, so they went there, it is gonna be there

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