How to interpret witness lists

Lawyers rarely, if ever, call everyone listed on their witness list and sometimes they will call someone who is not on their list.

Generally, they will list everyone they believe they might call to the stand, including listing several people who would testify about one thing when only one witness is necessary and testimony by the others would be cumulative and likely inadmissible.

Prosecution witness lists tend to be more accurate and reliable because they have the burden of proof and put on their case first.

Defense counsel usually include many prosecution witnesses on their lists but never call them to the stand because they make their points while cross examining them after the prosecution calls them to the stand and completes the direct examination. Since the defense usually makes its case during cross examination, you will not often see it present much of a case after the prosecution rests. Two major exceptions would be defense expert testimony and testimony by the defendant.

Scheduling witness testimony and arranging travel and overnight accommodations is a major hassle that requires patience and flexibility to change plans without appearing to miss a step.

When the judge says, “Call your next witness,” you better be ready to go.

The Orlando Sentinel is reporting today that the defense has filed a new witness list listing more than 200 people, including more than half of the Sanford Police Department.

I cannot imagine why they did that since a lot of those people probably had nothing to do with investigating this case and their opinions regarding the guilt or innocence of the defendant or his character are irrelevant and inadmissible.

In fact, the defense dare not open the door by introducing evidence of the defendant’s good character. That would permit the prosecution to introduce evidence about the defendant’s bad character. In other words, Katie bar the door.

To get a more realistic idea of whom the defense might call to the stand, compare the prosecution and defense lists and eliminate every name on the defense list that also appears on the prosecution list.

Eliminate the SPD cops and everyone else on the defense list who might be a character witness.

The remainder is a reasonable ball-park guesstimate.

Should be pretty much limited to experts.

That’s the list I am most interested in.

The rest, not so much.

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184 Responses to How to interpret witness lists

  1. ay2z says:

    More discovery today, 14th and 15th supplemental (redacted).

    A second defense witness list is in the docket from yesterday, one is supplemental, one is ammended. Doesn’t say experts, cut possible?

  2. FactsFirst says:

    “”Zimmerman’s attorneys respond to Martin family private settlement”

    http://www.cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/2013/04/zimmerman-case-settlement-0418.pdf

    • ay2z says:

      Yes,that article —

      In a motion filed today, the defense said it should be revealed because the settlement could influence Trayvon’s parents’ testimony at the trial slated to start in June.

      • Rachael says:

        Between that and shit like this:

        http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013/04/a_rag_tag_bunch_strikes_gold.html

        That is going to be one nasty ugly trial.

      • ay2z says:

        Rachel, the url says it all, not worth bothering to look.

      • Rachael says:

        I still say, especially after reading MOM’s response, this is going to be one ugly trial.

        • Most of the stuff O’Mara wants to get into is irrelevant and inadmissible.

          He should know that, so I can only assume that he intends to put Judge Nelson on trial in the court of public opinion when she forecloses inquiry into irrelevant subject matter.

          He’s already starting to apply pressure hoping to intimidate her into permitting him to hijack the trial.

      • That’s an accusation that Trayvon’s parents cannot be credible witnesses because they are in this case for the money.

      • Rachael says:

        Have you ever heard anything so objectionable? So reprehensibly disgusting? Every day they get more and more disgusting.

        I really don’t know how Trayvon’s family is managing, I just don’t.

      • ay2z says:

        Prof, do you think for a moment, that MOM would try this intimidation of a judge,, if the judge were male?

        (aside– but the Boston bomber who is at this moment, at large, was described by a sudent friend as never giving any indicatio of his thinking, EXCEPT a post he made on fb about a woman instructor he had, and why she should have the right to teach him. A glimmer of his thinking. Whether a terrorist caught up in extremist views, or a down-home lawyer boy who is male and whose case has a female judge, might be some room for agreement regarding women, just taken to different levels. I hope that Judge Nelson is not easily intimidated or flustered if her files get all messed up by MOM)

        Bullying should have no room in the justice system, at any level. Bullying is the common person’s terrorist tactic.

      • JUN says:

        It’s funny that Omara says nothing at all regarding the Fogen family bias, especially regarding the screams, when, it is obviously not Fogen screaming and is the sounds of a kid screaming for their life

        It is up to the judge and jury to decide, not Omara

        Anyways, Omara’s reasoning is stupid and he’s obviously mad because they easily won the settlement

        Yes it is true the Trayvon family are interested in the outcome, however, that is not enough to prove there is bias

        To prove bias, they would have to prove purposely scheming and manipulation to gain an edge for their party but that is not even the case

        99% of the case against Fogen, is not even from the Trayvon family, and in fact, from people who have no connection to either party

        The only party to have shown bias, is Fogen and his family and his crazy gang of supporters or rednecks, considering, all their attempts at harassing witnesses and spreading lies and propaganda despite scientific evidence because it can easily be proven to reasonable people that they have lied and schemed to get their way and are not reasonable despite science saying otherwise

        I think Omara is barking up the wrong tree and IMO, the settlement is none of his bloodclot business and is work product because after the murder trial, his culo is next

      • JUN says:

        Call it an accurate hunch but…

        The family of Trayvon are in it because Fogen stalked and murdered their kid

        I dont know what hullaboo world Omara lives in, but, he’s lost his bloodclot mind

        If this were the medieval ages, there would be people trying to slice Fogen’s head off with a sword for killing someone’s kid

        In fact, we still do it to this day, but we give the needle

        Omara is just worried because he knows he’s next

        He better just watch himself because after it is all said and done, Omara will be left with nothing, not even his lawyering license

      • ay2z says:

        Won’t calling Mama Z to the stand to identify the screams as that of her son, open the character issue by a good prosecutor?

        I don’t know how that would be done, but one would think a mother would want to say something good about her son’s character.

        Would a follow up on this during cross be allowed? BDLR wouldn’t want to beat her up to get her to say something, but if she did, could they then expand with rebuttal witnesses (aside from the question of voice ID of course.)

        • cielo62 says:

          ay2z~ I was shocked they were able to find 50 people who even knew GZ, let alone be willing to be character witnesses. Maybe the dwindling money in the fund is due to “encouragment” for these people to show up?

      • JUN says:

        Yep, it’s gonna be one ugly trial

        you got Omara, a man with absolutely no morals… a kid with candy? Just another dog for him to run over so he can try to weasel money from crazy racists and get himself on TV

        I expect Omara to flip out and lose his cool and act high siddity

        Jodi Arias’ lawyers have more class than Omara, and that is saying a lot

      • Two sides to a story says:

        “Call it an accurate hunch but…

        The family of Trayvon are in it because Fogen stalked and murdered their kid”

        Amen. Hoodies up.

  3. looolooo says:

    I sure hope you’re right Colin.

  4. colin black says:

    Cindy and George were allowed into the court room every day of trial.
    Not because there Daughter was the accussed but because they were the grandparents of the victim Caylee.

    They asked to be exempted from being excluded from the court even although they were on both the States an Defences list of witnesses.

    And they were both major witnesses to events surounding Caylees death/MURDER.

    Unlike Trayvons Parents whom are not involved in the actual homicide.
    So Trayvons Parents if they make a simmilar request to be excused from pre evidence absence from the court.

    Im sure the Judge will alllow them an Family his Brother ect to sit in court.
    Even although there on the list Bernie wont object an if M O M objects then the Judge can either uphold his objection an barr them .
    Or over rule his objection an admitt them.

    • ay2z says:

      Thanks Colin, hope they can get the judge to agree. How can their testimony possibly be skewed by the testimony of others to support one version of events or another? If there was testimony that they should not hear prior to their own testimony, that could be decided upon and that would only be brining up dirt about the victim, they never knew or had anything to do with the NW ‘captain’.

      There was that email from fogen to ‘someone about the victim’s father that Bernie alluded to in court.

      O’mara and west might find it easier to hit at the victim with parents out of the room, maybe O’mara doesn’t think he could hold it together or might lose his train of thought if he looks towards the victim’s mother. This isn’t divorce court.

  5. acemayo says:

    If Mom
    call 200 people on their witness list
    did he list call the black kids that was with GZ the
    day he went to target before he shot TM
    Did MoM put all the black kids he save from the
    black area like GZ mom said

  6. ay2z says:

    oops, Bobbie just called someone ‘fag’ with multiple g’s over on his twitter page. Didn’t Bobbie’s brother and sis in law, make fun of him on their jailhouse calls for being….. well….

    • fauxmccoy says:

      ay2z’s desk says

      oops, Bobbie just called someone ‘fag’ with multiple g’s over on his twitter page.

      so he’s a self loathing homosexual in addition to being a self loathing afro peruvian. will wonders never cease?

      • Xena says:

        Junior isn’t comfortable in his own skin, neither his own mind.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Actually, someone tweeted TO Jr, calling Jr. a fag and telling him to shut up. And then Jr. blocked him. Hmm, considering all the motions being posted, it’s interesting that Jr. spent most of his tweet time today on the Boston bombings.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @TSTAS, you mean Joonyah is not blaming the Boston criminal incident on some of these “RISKY” AA running around in this country, especially since they know their place in this racist society whom I admit have no business, trying to tell other countries how to treat their own citizens. both he and those who are like him.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Fogan Fam members have no respect for anyone, much less themselves. I anticipate mucho more absurdity before opening arguments begin. Anything to distract. Anything to confuse. Anything to generate quick bucks for themselves.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Lady – Jr seemed to be going into his newscaster mode, tweeting as journalists and newscasters do . . . whether he was making any inferences, I couldn’t say. I didn’t see any.

    • ladystclaire says:

      @looolooo, You know, that old bat would be a lot safer in an all black neighborhood as opposed to being safe in an all white neighborhood. this shit about her being afraid for Fogen the Menace going into an all black neighborhood, is as full of BS as she is.

      The entire Zimmerman family is as full of BS as a Christmas turkey.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Gladazz would be at most risk of a pie in the face or other such scorn in Peruvian restaurants or neighborhoods anywhere across the Americas. She and her ill-bred offspring have heaped insults on all decent Peruvians with their disgusting behavior and ignorant white supremacy remarks.

  7. ay2z says:

    Will the state call ‘Sis’? She could support her brother’s credibility, and talk about their plans to tranfer funds to keep them secret from the bond hearing all in one sitting.

  8. Kelly Payne says:

    There is nothing in those documents that says anything about Trayvon having a suppressed record or him having been a thug. Again the conservative treehouse is lying and making stuff up. Sundane cracker may want to find himself a good lawyer. The only reasonTrayvon’s name is mentioned at all ,and only a few times is because of an internal investigation as to why his suspensions were leaked. the other documents detail allegations of a coverup of some incidents at some miami schools. They are assuming trayvon may have been involved in those incidents whatever they maybe. So Mark Ivor Bradman aka sundance cracker is telling people who visit his site that trayvon had a suppressed record. Those documents mainly involve an investigation in why Trayvon’s suspensions were leaked. Which the people who visit his site being the idiots that they are,actually believe. Even if Trayvon had a criminal record it wouldn’t be relevant to his murder. The only one with a history of being a thug is Zimmerpunk.. Attacking an undercover police officer makes you a thug.beating up woman makes you a thug. bullying people makes you a thug. TRAYVON HAD NO HISTORY OF VIOLENCE OR BULLYING PEOPLE.. He never did any harm to anyone. Again the conservative tree house has made assumptions and lied again in an effort to justify the murder of a 17 year old boy. They should be asking why a 208lb former bouncer couldn’t handle a skinny 17 year old without killing him. Trayvon never touched him.

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      I usually stay away from that place, but I was interested in the ” big foia reveal”.

      You pretty much captured what was in that report. You’d never know that if you’d followed SD’s advice not to soil your mind, by reading the report.

  9. ay2z says:

    They don’t want Sybrina in the courtroom, with her son she raised, a father who was there for him (Dr. Phil made that point emphatically about Tracy being a good father, giving his son all the gifts a father passed along to a son, Trayvon as he did Javaris).

    O’Mara wants to degrade the broken black family, the troubled teen, he won’t want the jury looking into Sybrina, Tracy and Javaris’s faces to see the fallacy and cruelty of what O’Mara will be saying, or West, he might do that better.

    • Rachael says:

      I tell you, I don’t know who disgusts me worse, GZ or MOM. I think that is so awful.

      • Rachael says:

        You know, on Dr. Phil, Osterman or Dr. Phil or someone referred to GZ as the most hated man in America but you know, I really think I hate MOM even more. He has taken everything GZ has done and made it worse and used to to profit off of. He doesn’t want to just degrade a broken black family, he wants everyone else to as well and ENCOURAGES it. As sick as I feel GZ is, I honestly am beginning to thing MOM is sicker.

        GZ will have his day in court and justice will be done, whatever that may be. But MOM? He will always be able to find plenty of racists who want/need his services. He will never be more than a lawyer for racists, but now that I see how many there are, he will do fine.

        I am so sick and disgusted by all of this. June 10 will not be here soon enough.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Rachael, I couldn’t agree with you more as, I’m sick and tired of how some whites in this country are doing everything they possibly can, to paint this deceased child, Trayvon Martin in a bad light in order to make his “MURDERER” out to be the victim here.

        This hurts me to my heart to see the “IDIOTIC” things that these *MORONS* are saying about this kid, I can just imagine how his family feels. these people have no shame and, they are morally bankrupt as well. GOD don’t like ugly and, these people are real ugly so, they can count on going straight to hell where they belong.

        My Troubles Today, Could Be Your Troubles Tomorrow. the racist trash of this country would do well to remember this.

  10. ay2z says:

    The defens e must have lined up a few of it’s own token minorities to fill their quotient of seats.

  11. colin black says:

    April 18, 2013 at 8:07 pm

    They will not be excluded from the courtroom.
    Special pleas of excemption in Florida allows the next of Kin to be present even if they are listed as defence and or prosecution wittnesses or both.

    As happened in trunkmoms trial her mom an dad were major player in the trial.
    Tampered with evidence one was accused as a possable mplester an alleged killer of a drowned CAYLEE,

    They were both up an down from the stand like jack in the boxes
    I lost count of the amount of times they were called to the stand at different days an about differing events or non events.
    Cindy lied under oath on more than one occasion.

    An yet both parents as Grandparents of the MURDERED Child were excempt from excluxion.Because they asked to be an if they were allowed to sit in the court room.

    So if the anthill mob were allowed to sit in.
    Trayvons Parents will be aforded the same stutus

    There no reoson on Gods Green Earth why Trayvons Parents can be barred from any minute of the trial/
    ,
    Unless they wish not to hear or veiw certain evidence they will be forwarned to expect onpleasant images an recordings..

    Reply

    • ay2z says:

      They were in the courtroom for their daughter, so was all the theatrics on the stand, both parents.

      • looolooo says:

        They were disgusting! Caylee deserved a better mother and grand parents. And after kicking poor Caylee to the curb, their victimized hoe-bag daughter has since kicked them to the curb. What did they expect from a woman who MURDERED her own baby, allowed her to rot, then dumped her in a ditch! My blood still boils!

    • ay2z says:

      Witnesses can simply watch the trial on their iPhones or iPads or tv’s at home before they are called.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      That gives me hope, Colin, that Trayvon’s family will all be there every day of the trial.

  12. ay2z says:

    Has the Zim family taken up a rant against FOX news yet? FOX misread Mama Zimms letter, giving her statement a completely different meaning than her actual words.

    FOX reporter on video said it was failure of justice system ‘for Americans’, that is, all Americans, when fogen was arrested. When Mama Zim said it was for the family, or ‘us as Americans’.

    Did FOX intend to give that a more complete nationwide meaning? Because that’s a lot of power for one woman who hides in the dark, to take upon her fellow country men and women, and children.

  13. gbrbsb says:

    They have identified two real suspicious guys they are looking for for the Boston Bombing… they look white!

    • Trained Observer says:

      White? Oh, then they couldn’t possibly on drugs or sumpem!

    • Rachael says:

      They did to me too, but another site where I go (medical transcription site), a person said, “They look like foreigners to me.” I asked her what the heck that meant and all hell broke loose on there.

      • gbrbsb says:

        “Foreigners”? WTF do they mean by foreigners? I would have asked for an explanation too. I mean, does that include Spanish, Latin American, perhaps French? Or is that descriptor for Arabs or Muslims?

        Don’t know if it was reported over there but in 2005 our elite armed police force, after following a suspect by foot and by bus for around half an hour, in a tube train without a word or shot of warning, jumped on an innocent 27 year old Brazilian (Charles de Menezes) on his way to work, pinned him down and pumped 11 hollow points into him in front of various horrified passengers just because he looked… yeah, you guessed it, “foriegn”, and yes you guessed it, foreign which, and yes you guessed it again, which meant Arab.

    • ay2z says:

      Yeah, but look closely, you will see what looks like hoodies!! Hoodies down, and under ball caps worn backwards. But there, nevertheless.

      • gbrbsb says:

        @ay2z
        Well, may be the second one, but IMO the first walking along is wearing an open 3/4 jacket with a hood which, in the UK at least, is not considered “a hoodie”, simply a sensible and practical jacket suited for the cold and rain. The other it is not so clear and it does look as if the hood comes from underneath the jacket and is attached to a sweat shirt, or “hoodie”.

        That said, I am not sure if whether they have or not hoodies is indicative of anything.

      • ay2z says:

        Yes, but wearing a hood up has the same effect, not a sweatshirt, but still hoods whether called a hoodie or not.

    • PiranhaMom says:

      @gbrbsb

      Word on the street is that they’re Chechen-Peruvian ….

      • gbrbsb says:

        @PiranhaMom
        Chechan-… Peruvian ???

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @gbrbsb –
          @cileo –

          A little wordplay for this blog.

          From GZ’s physiognomy, the “Peruvian” genetics would be Quechua (“Peruvian” being a nationality) so if Junior wants to elaborate on his and his brother’s ethnicity, his claim would be “Afro-Quechuan” — only if they want to ignore the Caucasian genetics lurking somewhere in the background (except, of course, on drivers licenses ‘n other documentary stuff)

          So who knows if there’s not a little Quechuan in the Chechens?

      • cielo62 says:

        PirhanaMom~ NO WONDER they look “foreign”!  :/

      • gbrbsb says:

        @Cielo
        Cielo, it depends what you mean by “foreign”. An American in the UK “looks foreign”, you can normally tell them a mile off for multiple reasons, some more complementary than others, but none to do with race. In Spain northerners “look foreign” just as for northerners, Spaniards probably do. Those of North Africa look no different to the Spanish, Italian or Greeks, and southern French, because if we are referring to white all of us are caucasian in the end for whatever that is worth.

        • cielo62 says:

          gbrbsb~ I was being sarcastic with that remark. I have no idea what “looking foreign” must mean to some people. “Different” is one thing. But “foreign”? Like you said, if you ask that question, all hell can and will break loose. Do I look foreign? Depends. I look Italian or “Jewish” when I don’t look Hispanic. LOL!

          • gbrbsb says:

            @cielo62
            Ok, so you had me there! I was a wee bit worried which is why I tried to explain thinking you could be confusing race with “foreign” without realizing. Sorry, and sorry again, I should have known you better by now!

          • cielo62 says:

            Gbrbsb- LOL! No problem. Too bad there isn’t a “sarcasm” font or something. I read that you opened that Pandora’s box on another site, and rightfully so. The first step to ending that kind of prejudice is to be made aware if it. They could just as easily been Greek, with that strong hawklike nose. Good lookin chaps on the outside. Rotten at the core.

            Sent from my iPod

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Cielo –

            That’s a definite Quechan nose …

          • gbrbsb says:

            @Cielo62
            Uhhh…? I opened Pandora’s box? Me? Which site? Please say. I have hardly ever posted elsewhere not even when incensed by something on which I will write reams but rarely, if ever, post them.

          • cielo62 says:

            gbrbsb~ OOOPS! I must have made a mistake! I read so many posts that I misremember things. ONE poster mentioned that s/he read that someone on a different site had mentioned that “no wonder these guys are suspects. They look foreign” whereupon our hero/ine pointed out “What does that mean” and THEN all hell  broke loose. Just another incidence of “and he looks black”, as if that explains everything.   ANYWAY (sheepishly) let’s carry on, shall we?

          • gbrbsb says:

            No “sheepishly” and no problem… just had me worried for a moment I was posting my angry thoughts without realising! Of course, sigamos!

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @ gbrbsb –
          @ Cielo –

          I can recall an INS guy years back chortling over how they nabbed Canadians sneaking in to the U.S. “They look wooly.” (No polyester in their suits – in the days when guys actually wore suits.)

          Everybody’s different – especially when they speak!

          • gbrbsb says:

            Clothes can be a real give away. The first years I lived in Spain people said they could tell I was English because of my clothes. Then after living there a few years when I would return to the UK for a visit people that didn’t know me kept thinking I was French or Italian (Spain was an unknown at the time recently emerging from a dictatorship), and even in the US I have been thought to come from any central European country except English. For years I even spoke English with a Spanish accent!

  14. esentrick says:

    Professor and all, in review of Defense response to Attorney Crump (which btw I am appalled by MOM assertion that Attorney Crump motion is “illogical” and lack “common sense”), MOM asserted that the butcher has a 6th Amendment right to confront witness including Trayvon’s parents. What I do not understand, is I thought the amendment is the right to confront witness AGAINST the defendant. So if MOM list Tracy and Sybrina as a witness to defense, how could he state they are against the defense? IIRC they were not listed as witnesses to state. Could someone help me out here. Thank you in advance.

    • Rachael says:

      I’m sorry, I don’t understand your question.

      • esentrick says:

        Hi Rachael! Please disregard my jabbering. I am a little under the weather so i am not thinking clearly. 😦 thank u!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Esentrick, I think what you’re wondering is why the heck the victim’s parents and half-brother are listed as witnesses for the defense. As Mr. L said, it’s to keep them out of the courtroom except when they’re called to testify. Harassment, basically.

      • Rachael says:

        It’s okay, I’m pretty under the weather too, so I’m not understanding stuff too well today. Ask the professor. I couldn’t figure something out someone else was saying earlier as well and he had to explain it.

        I hope you feel better. I hope I do too. LOL

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Hope you both feel better soon!

    • O’Mara is blowing smoke as usual and casually insulting everyone he can think of in the process.

      Annoying, disrespectful and unprofessional.

      Sign of someone losing it.

  15. how awful it includes Trayvon’s brother too….

    x-chief bill lee
    wolfinger
    did not see taffy LOL

    oh wait there is an osterman and a taffy francis and sondra??? let me double check that

    yes a francis osterman and sondra taffy (taffy spelled wrong on purpose- as in laffy taffy)

  16. not even 200 witness would be able to convince me zimmerbutt’s lies were true

    Trayvon’s parents would not be allowed in the court room if they are on the defense witness list? Why on earth would they be on the defense witness list?

    • Rachael says:

      To keep them out of the courtroom.

    • Trayvon’s parents would not be allowed in the court room if they are on the defense witness list? Why on earth would they be on the defense witness list?

      MOM did that to keep them out of the courtroom and for no other purpose.

      • gbrbsb says:

        Professor, sorry to bother but a few quick questions.

        Does that mean that the defence will not call the Martins to the stand at all, not even to cross examine?

        Would the Martins be allowed in the court room during the trial if they were solely cited on the Prosecution’s list?

        If the Martins had not been cited specifically by name in the defence’s list would the coverall:

        “Other:
        Any witness identified through State’s discovery not otherwise disclosed herein”.

        have also prohibited their presence in the court room during trial by being included in the defence’s list even if only under the coverall.

        • I believe Tracy and Sybrina will be permitted to be present during the trial, despite the defense effort to exclude them, since Florida law has an exemption for the victim’s family.

          I cannot imagine that the defense will have any reason to want to question them during the trial.

          I believe the prosecution will call Sybrina as its last witness to identify Trayvon as the person who uttered the shriek.

      • ay2z says:

        That may be allowed but it is not ‘in good faith’.

      • ay2z says:

        Can Bernie call them early so they can be cross-examined by the defense early? You mentioned that the defense would list witnesses but in general, question them on cross as much as they should need.

      • ay2z says:

        What is O’Mara so afraid of? Sure reads that way.

      • Kelly Payne says:

        Don’t they have a right to be in the courtroom?

      • JUN says:

        I think the state can call them to the stand and the Trayvon family can give a victim impact statement and also testimony

        I do not feel the game Omara is playing by placing the Trayvon family on his witness list will work out as I believe he cant bar them from testifying or being at the trial

        Besides, all the Trayvon family can do is identify that their son was killed and murdered, and that the voice screaming sounds like their son, talk about their son, and give a victim impact statement

  17. bettykath says:

    MOM has suggested that there was a conspiracy w/in SPD. Considering that the SDA declined to prosecute it suggests that they considered fogen to be guilty and were conspiring to not charge. How would it help the defense to show that the SPD conspired to not charge someone they considered guilty?

    I believe that Trayvon’s parents are on the list to keep them out of the courtroom. MOM is unlikely to call them but he won’t make that decision until he says “defense rests”.

    fogen’s mother might be called to identify the screamer as fogen.

    • colin black says:

      They will not be excluded from the courtroom.
      Special pleas of excemption in Florida allows the next of Kin to be present even if they are listed as defence and or prosecution wittnesses or both.

      As happened in trunkmoms trial her mom an dad were major player in the trial.
      Tampered with evidence one was accused as a possable mplester an alleged killer of a drowned CAYLEE,

      They were both up an down from the stand like jack in the boxes
      I lost count of the amount of times they were called to the stand at different days an about differing events or non events.
      Cindy lied under oath on more than one occasion.

      An yet both parents as Grandparents of the MURDERED Child were excempt from excluxion.Because they asked to be an if they were allowed to sit in the court room.

      So if the anthill mob were allowed to sit in.
      Trayvons Parents will be aforded the same stutus

      There no reoson on Gods Green Earth why Trayvons Parents can be barred from any minute of the trial/
      ,
      Unless they wish not to hear or veiw certain evidence they will be forwarned to expect onpleasant images an recordings..

      • bettykath says:

        “They will not be excluded from the courtroom.
        Special pleas of excemption in Florida allows the next of Kin to be present even if they are listed as defence and or prosecution wittnesses or both.”

        This is good news. Something I didn’t know.

      • ladystclaire says:

        I don’t ever recall a murder trial in which the family of the victim, was not allowed to be present in that courtroom everyday of the trial in getting justice for their family member. MOM is less than a dog in my opinion. he is a sleazy poor excuse for a human being, that I have ever blessed my eyes on.

        He is as big of a racist as those who he takes his marching orders from and, if the truth be known, he should be slapped with perjury just like ShelLie was. he knew all about both the money as well as the passport, that was in Fogen’s possession via a safe deposit box he has IMO committed several crimes himself, while trying to help his lying murdering client, get away with murder.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Colin Black, you are right in the sense that MOM cannot keep Trayvon’s family out of the courtroom at anytime. the only family that should not and would not be permitted to be present, is the family of THE MURDERER! the Zimmerman’s are not allowed in there, until they are called to the stand.

        Now, if the Anthony family Cindy and George were allowed to sit in that courtroom every single day of that trial, then so will the Fulton/Martin family. Mark Lunsford was present in that courtroom everyday for the trial of John Couey.

  18. Trained Observer says:

    Isn’t it fairly standard for both sides to salt their witness lists with individuals they have no intention ( or little likelihood) of calling? The idea being that one side doesn’t want the other side to know who exactly will be called, therefore reducing feasibility of thoroughly checking out each person’s background in preparation for cross? That would certainly explain why MOM and West have 200 or so on their list, including half the Sanford PD.

  19. Xena says:

    Zidiots should read this:
    http://news.yahoo.com/mich-grandmother-gets-22-years-teens-killing-193753144.html

    Zidiots are wasting time trying to thugify Trayvon Martin.

    The 75 year old defendant said she killed her 17 year old grandson in self-defense. The kid had a history of drug use and tested positive for synthetic marijuana on the day of the shooting. The defendant blamed the parents. Didn’t help her defense. The defendant was found guilty of 2nd degree murder.

    From the article:

    A recording of a 911 call shows him being shot again while pleading for help — a critical piece of evidence that jurors played over and over during deliberations.

    • Rachael says:

      Oh yeah, I remember that one. Chilling.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Yes, another case where 911 phone recordings help do in the shooter.

      Granny used hollow points just like Fogen, who so coldly discussed his weapon and ammunition with a bystander just after Trayvon’s murder.

      Of course that convo was when Fogen’s mind was still whirling with how he’d be praised for his single shot “good shoot” that would make him a neighborhood hero and and truly a hot-shot down at the station.

    • ladystclaire says:

      How in the name of GOD, could a grandmother do a thing like that? what is wrong with the people of the world, that a grand parent, a parent and anyone in general take the life of a child? even though he may have been a difficult child at times, that is no excuse for taking his life.

      Why didn’t she call 911 and have him removed from the home? and to think a step in the direction of gun control, was voted down yesterday. some in this country are wanting to regress back to the days of the wild west. smdh

    • ladystclaire says:

      @Xena, and we won’t hear a peep out of them, concerning this case. the reason they are not talking about it is the fact that the victim in the case of the murdering granny, is white. he had synthetic weed in his system at his postmortem. he was also an unruly child as well.

      No we won’t hear a thing out of them when it comes to this kid and, we all know why. they are too damn busy smearing the AA deceased victim.

  20. Malisha says:

    Defense should have put God on the witness list to testify as to his plan. And they could have his testimony go through a simultaneous translator talking in tongues. Just Fogen’s style!

    • Xena says:

      @Malisha. God has already spoken as a witness;
      “Be ye not deceived. God is not to be mocked. What one sows, the same shall he reap.”

    • Trained Observer says:

      For the tongues spectacle, maybe they could pull in that lunatic preacher man who contacted Fogen in jail via phone. (Even Fogen — , lying moron that he is — understood that it would be smart to steer clear of having this koran burning fool staging support rallies on the courthouse steps.)

      • Xena says:

        @Trained Observer.

        For the tongues spectacle, maybe they could pull in that lunatic preacher man who contacted Fogen in jail via phone.

        That preacher is not one with the gift of the Holy Spirit to speak in, neither interpret tongues. IIRC, he is one who believes that the gifts are dead and anyone saying they have them is deceived by the devil.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      😀 I have it on good authority that God will definitely be there.

    • ay2z says:

      Lol! They should be careful what they wish for, they might get Bruce. Imagine this on the witness stand, or in the fox news studio.

      • ay2z says:

        But profiling of whatever description, of a black child who fit fogen’s profile to create Taaffe’s ‘perfect storm’, might just get a wake up call, like this.

      • ay2z says:

        Fogen’s claim of ‘god’s plan’ for his own personal use to ex use the coid blooded stalking and killing of an innocent visitor to his complex, is as false as his stories. Be turns his faith into an excuse for homicide. (murder or not in the jury’s mind, he committed homicide, kiolling of an other human being)

    • looolooo says:

      😀 😀 😀

  21. gbrbsb says:

    For anyone interested link now working to defence’s final witness list filed today: http://ow.ly/kckqT

    Presume the coverall:

    “Other: Any witness identified through State’s discovery not otherwise disclosed herein.

    is normal but they could have shortened it therefore by leaving out any already on the prosecution list such as Mark Osterman.

    And no experts unless I’m missing something… probably am!

    • looneydoone says:

      Mark Osterman’s not on the defense’s witness list
      hmmmm
      I don’t see any expert witnesses for the defense listed either

      • gbrbsb says:

        @looneydoone

        But I noticed MO and Joe Oliver, also missing here, are both on the Prosecution list so with the cover all clause no problem. As you say, more interesting methinks there are no experts… but can they still add them or is this final as in FINAL!

      • ay2z says:

        The prosecution has listed him so maybe after he testifies, he can sit in the courtroom for the jury to see this ‘Air Marshall’ who secures the very country and airline flights of family and loved ones.

  22. Two sides to a story says:

    “I cannot imagine why they did that since a lot of those people probably had nothing to do with investigating this case and their opinions regarding the guilt or innocence of the defendant or his character are irrelevant and inadmissible.”

    In addition to trying to confuse the jury, as Jun suggests, two other words come to mind: paying supporters.

    The defense team has consistently played to the payers.

  23. JUN says:

    I am going to put faith that Bernie is well prepared like Juan Martinez is in his case against Arias

    I am going to take a wild guess and say an enumerable amount of the testimony is not even actual direct evidence from the crime scene or officers who did not even handle the evidence

    Omara is likely trying to confuse the jury

    I believe Bernie will be prepared with a timeline and reiterate and relist evidence to the jury during deliberations

    As for the cops they are calling up, from the depositions, the impression I get is they were still suspicious of the defendant and continued investigating and long before the case became national, the FDLE was already involved, so considering that, they were still reasonably suspicious of the defendant at that time

    As for the witness 8 lie, I do not know all the facts, but even if it was about the hospital issue, it is not material, and at most impeachment material, and the fact remains, the defense was told there were no hospital records, and to depose witness 8 and it is moot

    However, if Omara brings into question the alleged lies of witness 8 as impeachment, he stands to put himself and Fogen into the fire, as there is proof they lied and it automatically brings their credibility into question because the state can introduce it as admission by a party opponent

    As for Omara’s argument about hiding w8 information, he was repeatedly told to depose witness 8 and was told that there were no hospital records, so I do not see how the information was hidden when Omara was free to ask w8 since at least April 11, 2012

    • Xena says:

      @Jun.

      I am going to put faith that Bernie is well prepared like Juan Martinez is in his case against Arias

      I would bet on it. Since the State believed that there would be an immunity hearing this month, no doubt they had associated witnesses needed to present certain evidence back in January.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Am thinking Corey/BDLR and team won’t miss a trick., no matter how low Team Fogen goes.

        • Xena says:

          @Trained Observer.

          Am thinking Corey/BDLR and team won’t miss a trick., no matter how low Team Fogen goes.

          O’Mara can throw all the mud he wants. He might take the route to try and victimize the deceased victim; humiliate Witness 8; argue that GZ should not have been arrested, but he has absolutely nothing to prove that GZ killed Trayvon in self-defense.

          When SA Corey held the press conference announcing that GZ was charged with 2nd degree murder, and said that they connected the dots, I said then that the State has much more evidence that the public will not know about until trial.

          TICK, TOCK.
          Justice for Trayvon.

      • rnewton32 says:

        You are right Xena. I remember Corey saying in multiple interviews that there is a lot more evidence that the public does not know (and will not know until trial) that brought them to the decision to charge him with 2nd degree murder. The Zimmernuts keep banking on the fact that all the evidence has come to light when they don’t even have half the story. But then again even if they had all the evidence, he would still be not guilty in their sick twisted minds.

        • Xena says:

          @rnewton32.

          But then again even if they had all the evidence, he would still be not guilty in their sick twisted minds.

          They justify bad and illegal behavior. In doing so, they confirm that GZ committed murder. For instance, they argue that the dispatcher had no authority and GZ did not need to obey. Well, that says he disobeyed and continued to follow Trayvon.

          Yep. Twisted minds.

  24. Tzar says:

    If all else fails Fogen could always try this defense:
    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/17/texas-teacher-claims-she-couldnt-have-fondled-black-student-because-shes-racist/

    A teacher in Texas has invoked her own racism in a defense against charges that she fondled an African-American student in her first grade class at Northwest Preparatory Academy Charter School in Humble.

    According to a criminal complaint obtained by the Houston Chronicle, the 7-year-old girl said that 61-year-old Esther Irene Stokes sent all of the other students out of the room on March 1 and then touched her “private part” on the outside of her clothes.

    “The victim said that she was in the classroom alone with the teacher and that the teacher touched her on the outside of her clothes, on what she called her ‘private part,’ her vaginal area,” Humble Police Department Detective J. Blanchard explained on Tuesday.

    Prosecutors said that after failing a polygraph test, Stokes insisted to Humble police that she had not touched the girl “on any part of her body.”

    “She doesn’t like to even touch the black children on their hand, she shies away when they try to hug her — she admitted to being prejudiced,” Blanchard said.

    The complaint stated that Stokes “doesn’t like black students because she was prejudiced” and “has little to no interaction” with her accuser.

    The girl also told police that she asked the teacher to stop touching her and was made to stand out in the hall without any lunch — but Stokes also denied that.

    Northwest Preparatory Academy Charter School Principal Paul A. Hardin told investigators that cafeteria records showed that the girl ate breakfast but not lunch on March 1.

    Stokes’ attorney, Patty Maginnis, said that any racist comments made by here client were “not proof that any crime has been committed.”

    “I would consider that just a personal opinion,” the lawyer noted. “The facts of the case will determine that she is innocent.”

    Stokes was fired on Tuesday, according to charter holder Miracle Educational Systems, which operates the school.

    “The employee involved was immediately placed on administrative leave as soon as the complaint was received, and the matter was investigated,” a statement said. “As a result of the Academy’s investigation, the staff member in question has been terminated.”

    Stokes is free on $10,000 bond. She is scheduled to appear in court on May 21.

    Watch the video below from KHOU, broadcast April 16, 2013.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      to the desk of tzar
      from faux’s desk

      holy batshit crazy, batman! you cannot make this stuff up.

    • Bahama Mama says:

      Disgusting!

    • JUN says:

      That’s a stupid argument because now they can say she treated the kid as a sex slave, due to racism

      • Malisha says:

        With the long history of molesters/rapists/sexual abusers having victimized people who fall into classes/groups they hate, including rapists who hate all women and who express that hatred through RAPE, “I’m racist” is hardly a defense to a charge of having molested a Black child! That teacher should have been fired for ignorance as well as anything else. They should not call the adult predilection for sexual activity with children “pedophilia” using the root of the Latin word “to love,” because it is actually not love that motivates sexual abuse of children. I would rather see the word “misopedia” coined meaning “child hating” for that tendency. The pedophile who goes to the extent of actually ACTING on the tendency is hurting a child, and is doing so because to that pedophile, the child is not a real person with his or her own life; to the pedophile who molests a child, the child is an object for the satisfaction of the adult. That’s not love; that’s closer to hatred anyway. And this country is obviously filled with people who believe that individuals of a different “race” or ethnicity are also objects for the satisfaction of other, “superior,” adults.

      • ay2z says:

        Charge her with a hate crime! Let her defend herself against that one, on top of all the other crimes related to her activities.

    • Rachael says:

      Complete loss of words.

    • colin black says:

      She Is not very smart considering she is a teacher.
      Adimiting to being a raceist means instant dismissal loss of pension ect as a public servant /teacher .
      So by admitting her guilt to being raceist she is admitting her guilt to this sexuall defence an proveing both her stupidity and raceist attatude.

      She figures hey Im screwed but raceism is a lesser evil than peadophilla so I will admit to detesting Black people so much I cant bear to touch them.
      An prove that Im not a peodiphile be cause Id pick a pretty White girl?

  25. elcymoo says:

    As soon as I saw the defense team’s initial witness list, I figured it was just another cynical ploy to make it appear that they were mounting a legitimate defense of their indefensible client. Now, they’re just piling on.

  26. Xena says:

    @Professor. When I saw Mama Zim’s name on the defense’s witness list, I laughed. What could her testimony possibly be? GZ’s character? Does the defense really want to open the door for the prosecution to cross on her testimony during the bond hearing, where her own son was hiding more than $135,000 while sticking her and Papa Zim with putting up their house for bond collateral?

    • ladystclaire says:

      @Xena, lying to your own parents, is what an innocent son does right! this woman can in no way be of help to his defense than I can. The only thing she will testify to, is a parcel of lies and that’s it.

      BTW, is she going to be in silhouette in order to keep her identity a secret, since she and the rest of her lying family are in fear of their lives? these people are full of IT and, they know it.

      OT, the nut house have been reported to the DOJ as well as to the Attorney General for the state of Florida, for the shady stuff they are pulling now. I read about them publishing the addresses of some of several SPD officers. the documents in question, is from Miami Fl, not Sanford.

      Go to HP and, read the comment by Anarchy for All, posted @ 1:48 am on 04/17/13. you may just find it quite interesting indeed.

    • Rachael says:

      Or if the prosecution asks her about when he shut off her electricity and locked the box. LOL.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Based on attitudinal airs Gladazz gives off in interviews and with her correspondence, it seems the defense would be taking a big risk putting her on the stand.

        Arrogance, ignorance, and inclinations to lie have a tendency to coming shining through. Don’t think jurors would find her appealing, and they actuallyt despise her.

      • Trained Observer says:

        might actually despise her.

      • PiranhaMom says:

        Do I recall correctly that Gladys said, “I love them like my own children”?

        And that Junior and George have little sister Susie and an older sister whose first name is unknown?

        But on a TV interview recently, when asked, “How many children do you have?” she answered “Three.”

        Anybody else catch either of these statements?

      • towerflower says:

        Fogen’s older sister is Gracie. I don’t believe Glady’s is her mother…….that is why she says she only has 3 kids and doesn’t acknowledge Gracie as her own.

  27. I am thinking zimmerman’s excessive weight gain is an attempt to make him appear less likely to have been able to defend him self in the confrontation he started with Trayvon.

    I think the defense is trying to sku the image of zimmerman. What will stick in the jury’s minds is what he looks like there in the court room.

    I hope all 200 witness’s are asked if his appearence is different than at the time of the murder. I hope it is clearly pointed out that he has changed physically a great deal since the attack he made on Trayvon.

    I mentioned this thought a couple 3 post back but the post have come up rather quickly so I dont think it was noticed.

    Hoodies up!!!!

    • Xena says:

      O’Mara stated that GZ’s weight gain is not to his benefit before a jury. The impression that GZ’s current weight might have slowed him down when he pursued Trayvon is much different that what O’Mara wants to argue about having a 300 lb defendant on the ground who purportedly couldn’t remove himself from underneath a 150 lb, 17 yr old old.

      • William Walton says:

        Xena, then again, the jury may realize that GZ’s weight gain may be due to depression realizing that he indeed stalked, murdered TM, lied, and will now spend a great number of years in prision. Just a thought.

        • Xena says:

          @William Walton.

          Xena, then again, the jury may realize that GZ’s weight gain may be due to depression realizing that he indeed stalked, murdered TM, lied, and will now spend a great number of years in prision. Just a thought.

          With such weight gain in less than a year, it can also demonstrate a person lacking self-control. I also suspect he is no longer taking Adderall for his ADHD.

      • gbrbsb says:

        @William Walton

        “…the jury may realize that GZ’s weight gain may be due to depression realizing that he indeed stalked, murdered TM, lied, and will now spend a great number of years in prision.”

        Only trouble it’s a double edge sword, depending on how impartial, i.e. non racist, the jury is they could think that GZ’s weight gain may be due to depression caused by his unfair prosecution! Just saying.

      • Malisha says:

        He’s not getting his exercise any more (going out on patrol, running after and bringing down his prey) and he’s practicing for three hots and a cot.

    • JUN says:

      I do not see how the weight gain helps the defendant when they have sworn in information on the weight Fogen was the night of the murder, and his history as a former bouncer and his lengthy history of violence and bullying of others, so Omara stands to open that door, if he goes there

      • Trained Observer says:

        I think he’s gained weight because he’s stuffing himself like the pig that he is — knowing that a few decades of prison chow await his future.

    • ladystclaire says:

      I honestly don’t believe they will be successful, in pulling this off. remember there is his reenactment video as well as the one with him in the sally port on the night in question.

      Chubsy Wubsy, was just that, when his committed his cold blooded *MURDER* of an *INNOCENT* KID. he can no more pull that off than the man in the moon can. you see, he was able to run after Trayvon, which is what he could do at that time. but, in his present condition, there would be no way he could run after even a crawling baby.

    • Kelly Payne says:

      All they have to do is show pictures of him taken at the police station that night.

      • type1juve says:

        @Kelly Payne
        Add to that pictures of him gingerly taking the stairs in the police station a day or so after the murder. I think that’s also the pic of him with the sunglasses.

    • Rachael says:

      If the show the reenactment, it will be obvious.

    • gbrbsb says:

      His weight gain is very strange. The photo he has with his dog on his real GZ site, shows a fit, thin, tanned, healthy guy. During his first hearings in prison overalls with no sleeves he may have looked dampened but still fit, thin and well formed.

      • Xena says:

        @gbrbsb. Could be the Adderall. Adderall suppresses the appetite. Since his arrest, chances are he is no longer on medication for ADHD.

        • gbrbsb says:

          @Xena. Then they should probably prescribe it to him again because he appears to need it because he is so ballooning.

          • Xena says:

            @gbrbsb

            Then they should probably prescribe it to him again because he appears to need it because he is so ballooning.

            If I understand it correctly, Adderall is not a prescription with refills — the patient needs a new prescription each month. There’s a possibility that GZ did not continue his medical insurance through COBRA. The credit union statements do not provide anything that conveys payment for insurance. So, he may be paying out-of-pocket for any medical care and so not receiving continuous treatment.

          • gbrbsb says:

            @Xena
            Well that’s settled then. Fortunately for him in Jail he will get treatment. 😉 (Or do prisoners have to pay their own treatments over there?)

          • Xena says:

            @gbrbsb

            (Or do prisoners have to pay their own treatments over there?)

            I have no idea.

  28. fauxmccoy says:

    follow the yellow brick road

  29. looneydoone says:

    I’m first ??
    That’s a first !
    Another fine article, Professor

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